26/05/2012 Dateline London

overseen by the retail guru Mary Portas.

I will be back with the full news bulletin at 1pm. Now it is time for

A warm welcome to Dateline, a last chance to save the Europe again, it

will it work this time? Egypt's first free and fair presidential

elections. Was the British culture secretary to friendly with Rupert

Murdoch minions? My guess today are Saul Zadka of AL London, Abdallah

Homouda, Brian O'Connell of Ireland's RTE and Ned Temko of The

Observer. The leaders of the eurozone have been drinking in the

last-chance saloon for so long it is difficult to recall exactly how

many attempts they have made. Nalgo looks as if the fate of the

supposedly unbreakable currency union is in the hands of voters in

one of the smallest states, Greece. It is also on the fate of the Irish

voters. Ireland is more likely to vote yes? The latest opinion

polls... This is a referendum on the fiscal treaty which comes up

next week in Ireland. The latest opinion polls suggest that the yes

vote have it by about a margin of two to one. But there is quite a

significant number of people who do not know and people who say they

will not vote at all. The government, both parties in the

coalition, which it are supporting the yes campaign, are not counting

any chickens because as you know in Ireland we had the Lisbon

referendum that was re-run because we got the wrong answer. It does

look at the moment as if it will be a victory for the yes side.

worried do you think people are in Ireland having taken pretty serious

medicine yourselves... In Greece, it is even tougher for people, they

are very fed up with this charity. They might do so forget about it.

Effectively, we are going to vote for parties who want to renegotiate.

So the euro may split. If the Euro split, it would not be good for

Ireland. The cliche now is that Ireland has become the austerity

poster boy. It has been very tough. The Bank nationalisations, the

setting up of the National Bank, wage cuts, pension cuts, public

spending cuts. It is very tough indeed. The IMF are saying more or

less the same now to Greece. They say they care more about children

in sub-Saharan Africa than I care about what is happening to people

in Athens. The IMF of waving the big stick. Ireland is broadly seen

as going through the motions, doing everything it is told by the IMF

and at the EU and meeting the deficit targets. Part of the no

side, the referendum campaign, has been at about whether you vote Yes

and the No side so that you will have more and more austerity. The

election of Francois Hollande has ranged -- raised a few question

marks about that as well. Maybe we should celebrate European democracy.

They have every right to say they want to change the government.

unless they are wrong. Weekend decree running it! They do have

every right but there are two separate issues. One is democracy

which is all well and good and we all like it. The other is the

structure called the European single currency. Although people

are agonising over whether it was doomed from the start, you are

right to say that the Last chance Saloon is not new. Indeed, there

was an interview earlier this week with Alastair Darling reminding

that in his last year Rome meeting when he was Chancellor in the old

Labour government, they spent a lot of time talking about how to rescue

Greece -- in his last euro meeting. It is a bit like a referendum in

reverse, in other words, particularly the Germans and

particularly Angela Merkel, they do not want to give what everyone else

says is the logical answer. That is that no matter what other work

around you come up with, the only way to get out of this crisis...

And ironically the cheapest way, is not just firewalls but to recognise

that you have to share the burden of this debt in the poorer

countries, whether it be in southern Europe or the more debt to

challenge countries like Ireland for it to work at all. Although we

talk about Francois Hollande talking about this charity versus

Growth, the real dividing line between him and Racal has not been

austerity because the French have a debt problem of their own and he is

committed to reducing debt, it is the notion of the arrangement

whereby a richer countries recognise that they have to share

the debt burden of the poor love. - the poorer. German voters have a

say as well. They say it is fine for the rest of Europe to say what

we have to do with our money, but we are not keen on it.

Europeans do not tell the Germans what to do with their money, but

they want their money. There is a problem with the fiscal policy and

there is a problem with the financial policy and people blame

the banks for restocking rather than lending and blame the

Government's and the EU in general for adopting an ad hoc solution

which ignores the policy principles which should conduct this properly.

And also you have Britain with the possibility or the need to share in

the problem without having anything to do with it. I do not see anyone

just addressing the problem. You have a central bank with no

jurisdiction in a number -- in the member states. How can you unify

the fiscal policy? This is an important question which has to be

addressed and had to regulate it and impose it without taking care -

- taking away the sovereignty. The European Union has progressed a

great deal and achieved a great deal but unfortunately you run a

great deal forward, a long distance forward, without protecting your

back lines. Also, Eurosceptics say, we told you so, we could see this

fatal flaw. But there is no... Each of these electrodes is proving that

there has ever been much of a demand for a European superstate.

People talk about fiscal union and political union. Actually, voters

in Germany and France as well do not seem to want that. The Greeks

also do not want it that much. In fact, we are witnessing the

situation in which I think it depends... Remarkable for such a

small country to be so important. I do not think the latest package

would make much difference. I was speaking to many Greeks in London

and they said they were flying to Greece to put his debate in the

election because they regard the last outcome as suicidal and

embarrassing. It seems to me that if the Greeks do not vote for the

bail-out, this will pave the way for Greece to exit the eurozone and

this cannot spell plenty of troubles for many other countries.

It seems to me that the Greeks are also looking at the new French

President as their saviour because he was championing the cause of

this narrative. They say, who a week not to renegotiate the pact

that has been bridged with Germany? Do you think in the end the Greeks

will vote for parties that can form a government and will accept the

solution on the table? Or do think of the SYRIZA bloc and others... I

think they probably will. I think the people will not want to

contemplate leaving the road and the impact that would have on

Greece -- the euro. They cannot have it both. Some people say you

can. No, you cannot have it both ways. In Ireland, I think people

probably realised that as well. You have got to bear the pain. You can

blame whoever you want, previous governments, bad administration,

the fact people do not pay their taxes. But at the end of the day,

if you are going to get thrown out of the single currency, I think

probably the outcome for Greece would be far worse. Angela Merkel

is trying to revive the Greek economy as the Germans did in East

Germany by introducing new measures in order to make it competitive

economy. I am not so sure that the Greeks would like this idea of the

Germans overseeing their economy. Let us move on. We should

congratulate the people of Egypt this week far a massive step

towards playing their part in a modern democratic country. The

presidential vote is just the first step. His Egypt really on course

for a better future? I hope so. But we are facing what was described in

the Guardian newspaper as a nightmare scenario. We are

congratulated and congratulate ourselves on the outcome of the

imperfection of democracy. We have lived for nearly a year and a half

under chaotic circumstances which many people seek... There were two

very organised parties in the Egyptian arena from the beginning,

the Muslim Brotherhood and the army. The army has proved to be less

effective and they did not live up to its description. The Muslim

Brotherhood have proven to be playing politics into a

professional way. Now we are left with another round of elections

between the candidate of the Muslim Brotherhood who came later to the

arena because he was the reserve candidate. Actually, there were so

many jokes in Egypt about him that the term of the presidency will not

be four years but it will be something like 5000 kilometres

because he... He has proven everyone wrong. The Muslim

Brotherhood have proven that the party on the ground with 2 million

plus members can do something and that should be a lesson for

everyone. The problem now, how to get out of this? Are we going to be

forced to vote for the Muslim Brotherhood because we do not like

someone from the rearguard of the barbaric regime? Or because we hate

the Muslim Brotherhood, we vote for anyone provided that we can kick

him out after one term? Obviously, there are so many sectors in

society. Some will not vote for the Muslim Brotherhood. There are four

million votes, but but but only on the grounds that they do not like

the Muslim Brotherhood? There are others, the Islamist block, will go

for the Muslim Brotherhood. Other people was say, if we can pick out

the president after a first come, we can have any one and it would

not be worse than no Barrett. Maybe it would be for Israel!

Israelis are looking at this with great concern. The secular

candidate, President Mubarak's pass minister. A good unsurprising

performance. All of the rest are going to reconsider the activities.

The mask was off as a result of the uprising in Egypt. Think about what

was happening in the lawless... The attack on the British embassy in

Cairo, the attack on the best pipeline. We would expect him to

lose in the next round. It is quite remarkable that the 17th June is

the day of the second round of elections and also the day of the

great collections. While we would reshape the future of the eurozone

and the Arabs owned. Beyond the celebration of democracy and the

Egyptians are electing their leader in the first time of 5000 years,

beyond election, I can see very dark clouds in the horizon simply

because the Egyptians would be locked into this confrontation

between fundamentalism and the military. This would spell a

Looking at what is emerging from Syria, you can't broadcast the

pictures because they are so terrible. You would have to say

that the whole region is still up for grabs. We have got a civil war

in Syria, effectively. But we have Egypt are facing hard choices.

is what it is about. I think it was in the article from Ian black, he

quoted somebody as saying "this is as if the revolution never

happened." if the revolution never happens, this would be a fixed

Barrack we would see a victory of a 90 per cent. It is not perfect.

Nobody ever suggested that democracy was perfect, but if you

look at what Assad have done to Syria, it has to be better.

most frustrating year and disappointing bit about the

election is, not that it is not better than the alternative, it is,

but even people willing to murder their own citizens like Assad means

that with the presence we have seen is irreversible. What was the main

message, no matter which side of the demonstration you were on? It

was, it seemed to me, that Egypt wanted to be free of the same two

binary choices. An authority than secular regime, and a theocracy,

the Muslim Brotherhood. What is fascinating about this election is

that 40 per cent of the voters voted for number three and number

four, a break from the past. This eloquent Socialist rival and critic

of the regime, and a Muslim Brotherhood candidates who

campaigned on a more socially liberal tickets, a more pluralistic

ticket. Those 40 per cent presumably filled disenfranchised.

This result can be attributed to only 40 per cent of the electorate

participating and voting. And people are quite a their fingers

for not mobilising better. But now we face the scenario that it is

either a it regime or the Islamists. The revolution came for different

objectives, not only the freedom but for social stability and

economic improvement. Jobs and dignity in living. This has to be

the challenge of any president, and any President has to take into

account that day Middle-East environment, including with Israel,

passed to understand that if you want to live with a democratic

country you have to take everything which comes with it. No surprise

that Rupert Murdoch's organisation tried to be close to people empower

in Britain and around the world, but it is a surprise how much some

politicians sucked up to them. It could cost Jeremy Hunt his job, he

is seen to have ruled on the bid for BSkyB. Should he resign? Should

David Cameron sack him? We will see Jeremy Hunt and Tony Blair at the

Levison inquiry, how much trouble is he in? A fair amount. It is not

just Jeremy Hunt, what matters is the affect on 10 Downing Street and

David Cameron. This is just one of a whole basket of problems that the

Prime Minister who looked incredibly sure footed for 18

months in power has had to deal with in the last two or three

months. We heard, since the start of the year, that reluctantly David

Cameron might want to shuffle his cabinet. He did not want to do it

early because he believes instability. One effect is that you

now have these two linked issues. He will have to reshuffle his team,

for lots of reasons. The balance between the board Democrats and

Tories around the Cabinet table been one of them. But the Jeremy

Hunt thing is now linked to that. They now recognise that he has

probably got to go, even though technically none of the

embarrassing e-mails about the love notes to each other and childbirth,

none of it is a crime and T may have been sufficiently arm's length

to in the process. This is what worries them, though. The notion

that Cameron was a where of his instinct to be in favour of News

International. Yet he still maintained to the post of this

procedure. The exactly. In Jeremy Hunt's favour, cockles Secretary,

responsible for broadcasting although not for this takeover, it

is perfectly reasonable for him to offer a view that it is a good

thing and that he would like Sky. There is nothing of itself in that

which is wrong. No, there is not. That is the one thing which David

Cameron is holding on to. This is about perception. 1, Jeremy Hunt is

dead in the water. He would not be in that job if it weren't for the

fact that he had to turn a next week to give evidence at Levison.

The only reason he is still there is because he has not given his

evidence yet. He will have to go. But for the overall perception is,

as you suggest, that David Cameron should not have a appointed to that

Cabinet job somebody in favour of Murdoch. Everybody has a view on

murdered one way or another, these cable did. That is why he lost that

particular bit of his portfolio, but you have to ask whether there

should be a quasar a judicial process, a bid for BSkyB, should it

be a quasar a judicial process? Or should it be handed off to a High

Court judge. I am never sure what it is, it is either judicial or it

isn't, surely? David Cameron will say nothing happened. He did not

sign off on this deal. It is the perception of it. The that is the

interesting point, the special adviser to Jeremy Hunt said at

Levison it was the perception. He resigned over the perception.

did not resign. He was made to resign. He was made to resign in a

way which incriminate him and makes him a scapegoat, and the cabinet

secretary contributed to that. The Cabinet Secretary was a aware that

the bug could be passed to the Prime Minister, so he wanted to

kick it away by getting this guide to go. But the whole question is

related to be relationship between the media, money and power. The

fact that David Cameron was happy that the Murdoch empire supported

him rather than Labour, during the last election, he wanted to keep

that. Neither did Tony Blair. He is not alone in this and Gordon Brown

was surprised it did not happen for him. Asking if Jeremy Hunt is not

too close, he was in his pocket! You can't get closer. Murdoch is

toxic, it leads all the way to Downing Street. When we were

talking about, metaphorically, that the Murdoch empire and the British

government are in the same bed, you can also say that when David

Cameron was hosting a them in Chequers, only a wall separated

them between David Cameron and his I am a bit worried about that where

this is going. It is a metaphor, but there was at a relationship

which meant they were too close. is a valid point. This is not just

a Tory problem. Not only did Gordon Brown, amongst others in the Labour

tried to curry favour with them, he went to the wedding. A Tony Blair

is godfather to one of the children. This is not new and we should not

be surprised. This is not about what happened or what didn't, it is

about the politics of it. One of the frustrations for Downing Street

would be that Labour may have been worse, but as they will remember

from opposition, it does not matter if you are worse in opposition,

that is the only good thing about being in opposition! 30 seconds now,

Tony Blair talking at the inquiry, you could sell more tickets to that

then the Olympics. Yes, it will be a full house. Nobody knows what

will be brought up when it gets to the report, but it has been pretty