23/01/2016 Dateline London


23/01/2016

Similar Content

Browse content similar to 23/01/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Hello and welcome to Dateline London.

:00:24.:00:25.

More migrants die on the treacherous crossing to Europe as France's

:00:26.:00:28.

prime minister frets immigration could destroy the European Union.

:00:29.:00:32.

Plus, Facebook's chief said her customers can help defeat

:00:33.:00:35.

Islamic State. Should we like her idea?

:00:36.:00:38.

My guests this week are, Abdel Bari Atwan, who is a writer

:00:39.:00:46.

Henry Chu who is an American journalist and

:00:47.:00:50.

We were told that treacherous winter seas would cut back those Syrians

:00:51.:00:57.

and others willing to risk their lives trying to cross

:00:58.:01:00.

from Turkey to Greece but it hasn't happened.

:01:01.:01:04.

Instead the people traffickers have cut prices.

:01:05.:01:06.

More migrants are dying and France's prime minister Manuel Valls

:01:07.:01:11.

says unchecked migration could destroy the European Union.

:01:12.:01:13.

It was pretty blunt statement. Yes, but that is what we need. Lucidity

:01:14.:01:29.

is a quality and the rare quality in politicians, especially in Prime

:01:30.:01:35.

Minister 's. The president of the European Council says we have two

:01:36.:01:40.

months to save Schengen. Why did he say that? If you look at the

:01:41.:01:49.

equipment, you can look at Germany, you can suspend Schengen. What

:01:50.:01:52.

happens is, it is fairly clear, either you default and Germany is

:01:53.:02:00.

the powerhouse of Europe, and if it doesn't play by the rules then it is

:02:01.:02:06.

the end. What you can do, article 26 is very clear. You've got to prove

:02:07.:02:09.

that one of the European member states, let's say Greece, cannot

:02:10.:02:14.

actually protect the external border of the union and then you can

:02:15.:02:23.

actually pull the suspension Schengen for two years. That would

:02:24.:02:29.

leave first time, that it leave the European Union time, to sort out the

:02:30.:02:39.

mess. As Manuel Valls said, this is akin to bacon tree solution. It is

:02:40.:02:46.

the beginning of the end. -- country by country solution. Putting up

:02:47.:02:52.

fences and walls and closing eastern borders, this is not of the European

:02:53.:02:55.

project is about. This will not be the end of Europe but a Europe, the

:02:56.:03:03.

founding fathers and mothers of the union. When I hear the words,

:03:04.:03:11.

temporarily suspension, I think temporarily is the European word for

:03:12.:03:19.

permanent. Quite possibly. Except that to go back to the broader point

:03:20.:03:24.

and the quotes from the French Prime Minister, in a way I think the

:03:25.:03:27.

opposite is the case. I framed this in the context of the referendum we

:03:28.:03:32.

are about to have in the UK and whether we stay in order. If you

:03:33.:03:38.

pose the question, would we have the European Union if you didn't already

:03:39.:03:45.

exist? With the implication that the doubters will pose that question, of

:03:46.:03:48.

course we wouldn't. But of course we would. Many of the problems can only

:03:49.:03:56.

be solved by coordinating on a European wide basis. Many of the

:03:57.:04:01.

problems we face, of which this one is a classic example. The fact we

:04:02.:04:07.

are failing totally to do so doesn't invalidate for one moment the idea

:04:08.:04:11.

that some kind of court the nation is required...

:04:12.:04:16.

Because Greece is our problem, Malta, Cicely.

:04:17.:04:28.

Completely. This tragic migrant story is our problem. Pulling out of

:04:29.:04:40.

this soul search is nonsensical. We need an organised institution to

:04:41.:04:45.

deal with it. It has failed totally. In other areas like crime and so on

:04:46.:04:49.

there is to some extent coordination. It is necessary. There

:04:50.:04:55.

are rules coordinating the single market. There needs to be an EU wide

:04:56.:05:01.

response to this. It is so obvious that is the answer and not an

:05:02.:05:04.

anarchy with the UK saying we won't take any, Germany saying we will

:05:05.:05:09.

taking loads. It is madness but we do have an institution capable of

:05:10.:05:14.

quarter knitting it and that is better than not having one at all.

:05:15.:05:21.

Of course, they should be in Europe wide solution and supposedly there

:05:22.:05:25.

was one in September when the EU nations decided they would share out

:05:26.:05:29.

and resettle some of the refugees and asylum seekers who have come.

:05:30.:05:33.

But that is a failure. When Andrew 60,000 out of the 1 million --

:05:34.:05:41.

160,000 out of 1 million that came. If that keeps on going there won't

:05:42.:05:49.

be a solution. There are continent wide solution is underway but they

:05:50.:05:57.

are not being implemented. It was always we have ten days to state the

:05:58.:06:02.

euro and if it fails, Europe fails. In this case at least with the euro

:06:03.:06:06.

graces needed to stop gap illusions as strong as the crisis. This they

:06:07.:06:13.

can't afford to do. This is a human wave that'll possibly overwhelm the

:06:14.:06:16.

continent. I'm surprised with this

:06:17.:06:22.

exaggeration. Two CDE you will collapse simply because of these

:06:23.:06:29.

foreign migration am I believe it is not right. The European Union is 500

:06:30.:06:36.

million citizens. How many migrants are coming now? It is only 1

:06:37.:06:41.

million. Do you think 1 million, and half of them will be deported. Do

:06:42.:06:48.

you think 300,000 will create destruction of the European Union?

:06:49.:06:55.

If that is the case... It is to union it is not European. It doesn't

:06:56.:07:00.

deserve it. My second point is, we're looking at the effect of the

:07:01.:07:05.

problem. We're not looking at real elements. It is Syria. The situation

:07:06.:07:13.

in Syria. Why is it happening? Five years now. No political solution or

:07:14.:07:18.

military solution. This is the problem. That is what the French

:07:19.:07:25.

Prime Minister said. The route and the causes in studio, we need to

:07:26.:07:32.

help Iraq, Turkey. But he got it wrong from the beginning. France got

:07:33.:07:38.

it wrong. Britain got it wrong. When they encourage the destruction of

:07:39.:07:42.

Syria, where they encouraged to militants to go to city and creating

:07:43.:07:46.

the problems. We never had a long-term vision at all. They

:07:47.:07:51.

pretend they know the Middle East, it is proved they know nothing of

:07:52.:07:56.

the Middle East. Suddenly, they wake up and there is the Islamic State.

:07:57.:08:01.

Suddenly, they wake up and they found those waves of immigrants

:08:02.:08:04.

coming to Europe. This is the problems stop where are the think

:08:05.:08:11.

tanks? Just in terms of the future of the European Union, there's this

:08:12.:08:18.

help David Cameron and his negotiations in the sense he can

:08:19.:08:22.

say, everybody is discontented here. The real problems we need to

:08:23.:08:27.

re-energise and rethink. The other way of looking at it is many British

:08:28.:08:35.

people will vote because of fear of immigration, in control immigration,

:08:36.:08:38.

we're not control of our borders. But it may be it more than economic

:08:39.:08:48.

leave. I completely agree with Steve on

:08:49.:08:55.

this. A lot of British people will think we need more coordination, not

:08:56.:08:59.

less. We don't want to be out of the union because the union is the only

:09:00.:09:03.

solution even though it is not providing it at the moment. It is

:09:04.:09:11.

strange to talk about Brexit when it is just a minor issue in the big

:09:12.:09:20.

scheme of things. We are going to have a summit about Brexit people

:09:21.:09:24.

say, we don't need a summit about Brexit, let's talk about it later.

:09:25.:09:30.

Most about a minor point. If Britain were outside the EU, do you think

:09:31.:09:37.

the French government would be, would have the same attitude towards

:09:38.:09:40.

migrants who end up in Calais? No. Britain would actually lose a

:09:41.:09:47.

loss because then Calais would become the problem, I think, of

:09:48.:09:55.

Britain. I'm not sure if that is people would look at this and say we

:09:56.:09:59.

need more Europe. Possibly, more coordination. Brits would look at

:10:00.:10:05.

this and say the European project has been a failure and let's go back

:10:06.:10:09.

to the first principles of being an economic union and a trading bloc

:10:10.:10:12.

and that is what we signed up for and that is all we want. You hit the

:10:13.:10:17.

danger in the UK in terms of this referendum. The arguments we are

:10:18.:10:22.

making, when we say more coordination, let's be honest we are

:10:23.:10:26.

saying individual country should give up more of their sovereignty in

:10:27.:10:29.

this issue. They shouldn't be allowed to decide, it needs to be

:10:30.:10:35.

coordinated on an EU wide basis. We can make that argument, it is a

:10:36.:10:39.

powerful argument. Try making that in a referendum. Give up your power

:10:40.:10:44.

to decide how many of these people we are willing to take. That is why

:10:45.:10:49.

this referendum is dangerous even though we are right to put the

:10:50.:10:53.

solution to this, it is to be caught donated. Let's look at the

:10:54.:10:58.

Springbok, Turkey for example. You mention smugglers. Turkey was paid

:10:59.:11:11.

$3 million to solve this problem. Turkey got a huge concession,

:11:12.:11:39.

says Isis can be diminished through Facebook,

:11:40.:11:42.

Or is she just part the digital delusion that tweets

:11:43.:11:47.

You have written quite a lot impact on anything much

:11:48.:11:57.

You have written quite a lot about the digital caliphate and how these

:11:58.:11:57.

organisations communicate. think she has got a point to?

:11:58.:12:08.

I think she does. Islamic State using Twitter, the Internet,

:12:09.:12:08.

Facebook said the maximum. managed to gain a lot of success.

:12:09.:12:16.

They can recruit people which is extremely important. They can

:12:17.:12:22.

promote their vicious ideology all over the world. I believe, some bin

:12:23.:12:29.

Ladin was unlucky because during his time he is an all man sitting in

:12:30.:12:32.

front of a camera giving a ceremony for about an hour on a half to be

:12:33.:12:40.

cut down to a few seconds by Al Jazeera or CNN. Suddenly, at a press

:12:41.:12:47.

of a button be reached all the corners of the world. It is free of

:12:48.:12:54.

charge. Now I believe, there is a huge campaign huge moves from the

:12:55.:12:57.

intelligence services in order to deprive them of this gift, this

:12:58.:13:05.

American gift. I noticed recently because I'm visiting this, their

:13:06.:13:12.

presence on social media is cut short. It isn't as it used to be.

:13:13.:13:15.

They used to have 100,000 tweets every day.

:13:16.:13:21.

She was suggesting that we like some of the Islamic State stuff and swamp

:13:22.:13:27.

them. There were 5 million tweets which said, bring back our goals,

:13:28.:13:33.

and it didn't have any good on Booker Haran. Isn't it just the way

:13:34.:13:42.

of these people who run these huge corporations of shoving the

:13:43.:13:44.

responsibility on other people. It is their responsibility, isn't it?

:13:45.:13:53.

Definitely. Facebook is a tool. But we have to look at other sites top

:13:54.:13:59.

for example, when you have somebody like Donald Trump, Sarah Pailin,

:14:00.:14:04.

when they are there dominating the scene and saying we have to ban

:14:05.:14:09.

Muslims from entering the United States is that this is the best

:14:10.:14:12.

recruiting tool for the Islamic State. We have to watch our media.

:14:13.:14:18.

We have to watch what we are saying, our ideology come our way of

:14:19.:14:23.

thinking. It has to be a collective move, it isn't just the Facebook or

:14:24.:14:30.

Twitter. We have to have a very wide range of tools in order to fight

:14:31.:14:36.

them. I think the idea of like bombing Islamic State isn't going to

:14:37.:14:41.

happen. That is ludicrous. There was this summit between silicon valley

:14:42.:14:44.

and the American government to joke about was could be done. Using both

:14:45.:14:57.

Western tools of the Internet, these are private companies. There should

:14:58.:15:05.

be bans of government limitations on different interference and speech

:15:06.:15:07.

but these are private companies which can take steps. It is helpful

:15:08.:15:12.

but is now a pilot between them and the government as to what can be

:15:13.:15:16.

done. Facebook has controls, for example, I'm trying to fly people

:15:17.:15:20.

who might be suicidal. They can exercise other kinds of algorithms

:15:21.:15:25.

to find Andrew Tye had propaganda things from Islamic State.

:15:26.:15:32.

There is something that but not enough? Censorship... BBC don't

:15:33.:15:47.

broadcast Isis Didio. -- videos. You have access to some of the top

:15:48.:15:53.

people in Isis, they have revealed to the degree they use social media.

:15:54.:15:56.

It is in some sort of primitive bunch of people. The response has to

:15:57.:16:06.

be sophisticated. Liking on Facebook is not going to be enough or

:16:07.:16:11.

sophisticated enough. More sophisticated than some of the

:16:12.:16:19.

Western authorities. The response has to be sophisticated. Including,

:16:20.:16:27.

frankly, I'd agree with you saying the government should make sure this

:16:28.:16:32.

happens. It is also about hiring talent. IS relies on the talents of

:16:33.:16:41.

IT talents of very young graduates from our best universities. That is

:16:42.:16:44.

exactly what silicon valley is about. It is counterattacking. It is

:16:45.:16:50.

counteracting not just recruiting but also radicalisation and speech.

:16:51.:16:59.

It is battle of talents on something that is extremely sophisticated. You

:17:00.:17:07.

are absolutely right. The head of IT Department on Isis, he was educated

:17:08.:17:14.

in the West, in the United States was that he got his degrees from

:17:15.:17:19.

acid she says. He was born in Paris. -- his degree from Massachusetts. He

:17:20.:17:25.

managed to recruit a lot of his friends, those young vigorous

:17:26.:17:31.

people, Muslim and non-Muslim, to work for his department. That is why

:17:32.:17:38.

they are highly advanced. They have very sophisticated, they can outfox

:17:39.:17:41.

a lot of intelligence services and Western governments because they are

:17:42.:17:49.

fighting by their own tools, brains and experience. That is why they are

:17:50.:17:53.

doing well according to their terms. The as Redding the propaganda full

:17:54.:17:56.

directors, writers and producers stop

:17:57.:18:00.

feel they have been overlooked at the Oscars.

:18:01.:18:02.

we have had this before. Women too. They have a point. I was looking at

:18:03.:18:16.

the archives 20 years ago and there was the same protest against the

:18:17.:18:19.

Oscars and the fact most of the nominees were white. There were

:18:20.:18:26.

protests outside some of the television studios broadcasting the

:18:27.:18:30.

Oscars. When you look at the Strait of acting nominees there is no way

:18:31.:18:34.

you concede that isn't a problem in terms of the diversity but we're

:18:35.:18:37.

back to something structural. You look at the Academy make-up itself a

:18:38.:18:46.

stop there was a study where the Academy itself is 94% white. It is

:18:47.:18:59.

70s sent percent male stop dead is going to be some changes where they

:19:00.:19:04.

will try to double the number of women, ethnic minorities. They are

:19:05.:19:12.

starting from a low bar. 7% of women directors in Hollywood. But is that

:19:13.:19:18.

a huge number. You have seen this from the inside because you work for

:19:19.:19:25.

the Cannes film Festival. How do you see this problem and how it affects

:19:26.:19:28.

those who take the decisions, who they get to vote on?

:19:29.:19:34.

I agree with what Henry just said. But from within the industry. You

:19:35.:19:40.

watch the films to pre-select them for the festival. As a viewer you

:19:41.:19:47.

don't care about the colour of the skin or the religion or even the

:19:48.:19:53.

gender. You are judging the work, you are judging performances. I'm

:19:54.:19:58.

more interested in the voice, in a new voice, an independent voice

:19:59.:20:02.

which is important in cinema. My duties to the work, it isn't too

:20:03.:20:10.

caught this idea. At the end of the day I wish my pre-selection and in

:20:11.:20:18.

the end the selection in Cannes deflected gender, parity. And also

:20:19.:20:24.

nationalities from all around the world. When people... I get a fellow

:20:25.:20:33.

journalists asking me every year, as a woman you should favour films by

:20:34.:20:42.

women. No, I favour what I consider are the best films. It is true that

:20:43.:20:51.

it is an important to point the finger but in the end we don't need

:20:52.:20:57.

quotas will stop nobody is advocating quotas. Some do. These

:20:58.:21:05.

awards should be given out on merit. It is easy to elect a black man

:21:06.:21:10.

president of the US than to have a black man head of the studio in

:21:11.:21:15.

Hollywood. You look at the movies that have been made but plenty of

:21:16.:21:18.

movies have not been made which would have had a more diverse story,

:21:19.:21:26.

women's story. It would make it more appealing. The independent

:21:27.:21:44.

production that ... If you look at a film like Creed, the director is

:21:45.:21:55.

white. The main actor is black. A white man was nominated for the

:21:56.:22:05.

award on the back of it. Once I was selected to be a judge for a

:22:06.:22:16.

television Academy, I was surprised. I was one of a few people out of 200

:22:17.:22:20.

who was non-white. This is the problem. We saw Charlotte Rampling

:22:21.:22:26.

saying that is racism against white people. There is no single person on

:22:27.:22:36.

the Academy board who is back. Cannes film Festival, we see Middle

:22:37.:22:39.

Eastern films can African films, Asian films, represented there.

:22:40.:22:46.

Actors, directors are presented. When it comes to the Oscars it is a

:22:47.:22:49.

different story. There is an admission that there is something

:22:50.:22:57.

wrong. They want to double that. Why now? Why didn't it take place along

:22:58.:23:02.

time ago? I toke to the director of Selma, and

:23:03.:23:17.

I asked how many African American women directors are there? He said,

:23:18.:23:21.

we can do lens, we can sit around one table. There is no black person

:23:22.:23:28.

burning the television studios in Hollywood. To be crudely tokenistic

:23:29.:23:39.

in this area would be absurd. My trendy friends don't look at a bunch

:23:40.:23:42.

of firms to go to and say we can't go to that, it isn't directed by a

:23:43.:23:48.

woman. It would be absurd now given the structure. We can't carve out

:23:49.:23:55.

ways of nominating people just on that basis. You have to sort out the

:23:56.:24:01.

structural problems. When you chose the best films you can't do it any

:24:02.:24:06.

other way. I don't know if they are the best films but you would have

:24:07.:24:09.

seen them. Some of them are pretty good. Do you

:24:10.:24:17.

take the point that we don't know Whitfield 's are not being made and

:24:18.:24:23.

we can't know that. Of course. In a few weeks' time I

:24:24.:24:33.

will see a lot of British films, and are very few by female directors.

:24:34.:24:38.

Perhaps they are not arrogant enough to think their film deserves to be

:24:39.:24:45.

selected. There is something cultural. Hollywood is important but

:24:46.:24:53.

it is only a tiny fraction of world cinema. I suspect Bollywood, there

:24:54.:24:59.

aren't many women Bollywood directors.

:25:00.:25:02.

That's it for Dateline London for this week.

:25:03.:25:04.

You can comment on the programme on Twitter and like us

:25:05.:25:06.

A fine day for most of the UK this Saturday. The weather much calmer

:25:07.:25:46.

than it is on the other side of the United States. The US being hit by a

:25:47.:25:51.

powerful snowstorm, picking up moisture from the Gulf of Mexico and

:25:52.:25:54.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS