24/12/2016 Dateline London

Hello and welcome to our year in review edition. What a year it has

been. Trump was that victory, the rise of populist movements, the

migrant crisis, wars across the Middle East and the possibly of a

new Cold War in Europe. Our top team are a Russian writer and former

Kremlin adviser, Janet Daley of the Sunday Telegraph, an Iraqi

journalist and Thomas. In Britain across Europe and in the United

States it has been eight Jewish year. The Brexit vote, Donald

Trump's factory, political turmoil in France, and elsewhere. All have

shown countries divided within themselves. Scotland,

post-industrial areas of northern even though the prosperous parts of

London at times appeared to regard each other as incompetence of of.

Trump and Clinton voters often seem to belong not just to different

states but different visions of the united states. How significant has

2016 bean in terms of these major political events? The deep divisions

between so-called populist movements and their critics. I mean, that has

been the story of maize to the big democracies. Really big divisions.

Your word, incomprehensible. Clinton's word, despicable might be

more to the point. Deplorable. At irredeemable, she

used. There is something in common in all these, the populist movements

in Europe, and the divisions in America. And that is a sense that a

huge swathes of the population, the majority in the case of the United

States in electoral terms anyway, feels that they are completely left

out of the discussion. They are left out of the dialogue and this is a

much bigger problem than just the immediate electoral consequences.

This is a post-industrial problem. The people who have been left behind

by the globalisation of the economy and particularly the globalisation

of Labour, which is to say nomadic tribes. Particularly young potential

employment moving around the world at the BS top global interest has

left indigenous populations, working-class populations feeling

completely unrepresented. It is a story of 2016 but it has

been in the making for decades. And we have not noticed it. For

decades and more acutely in the making since the financial crisis

which I shared in an era of posterity which made those left out

a few even more left out. Part of the social cleavage has to do with

the economy. People feel... It was called the left out millions. I came

across an unsettling statistic the other day. The American CEOs in 1965

as much as 20 times as much of their average employee but now it is 296

times. If you look at it from a productivity point view,

productivity since 48 grew by 96% and wages went up similarly. What

activities and 1973 has gone up to a lot more and wages have only

increased by 11%. There is a big discrepancy. Economic fortunes,

which people rise up against. It is to do with the importing of

cheap labour and the availability of cheap labour. I can see a political

solution to that. Partly it is automation. There was a

statistic also that in the US, of the jobs that were lost, four out of

five were due to alternation. Rather than cheap labour. Unfortunately,

very few people talk about that because nobody wants to push back

against technological advances and you can understand why. This will

continue to increase as long as we don't hold companies to account. And

rather say, yes, we have issues to do with migration and ships, but it

is to do with technological advancement and the way the economy

is changing. Cheap labour and robots and the

indigenous working classes of these countries have been squeezed out.

We will see Uber Uber rise. The drivers may lose their jobs within a

decade. They have said they are looking at

automatic cars in San Francisco. I want to go back to the idea of

populism. An MP was killed in the UK in broad daylight. The first time

since 1990. And I think because we are based out of London the

reflection about the violence towards populism, think it is a good

thing that people feel that they can use elections to make their voice

heard. Because if they cannot, they will resort to violent means. And I

really do think this was a turning point in the case of the UK in 2016,

we've had an MP killed. And the year of terrorism in various

ways. In terms of populism, that is also going to be the story of next

year, isn't it? I think, first of all, that this

year will be remembered for the deep crisis of liberalism which came to a

head. We are witnessing the crumbling of neoliberalism and all

the consequences, cultural, economic, fiscal, everything. And

when we talk about the economy, we've entered the stage of virtual

economy. At this stage is not accepted by people. You were talking

about Uber. Uber is a virtual economy company. It does not create,

it destroys. The people have rebelled against the dominant role

of the middleman. The middleman rules of -- rules in the virtual

economy. That is why we're seeing this impact which is not gone away.

It is still here. And it is clashing with this virtual economy, pushing

people out of jobs. Making them basically slave labour because,

let's face it, what is a zero hour contract? It is slave labour in a

developed nation. I find it remarkable that some people say,

well, it is a flexible way of working. It is not. It is basically

the dominance of slave labour. I don't think slaves get paid

normally. It is casual labour under another term. Casual labour was made

illegal in effect in this country and easier or hours contract is just

the reinvention of casual labour. Some talk of wage slaves, don't

they? That is metaphorical. The point is,

the prices of what you're describing is productive labour is the crisis

of manufacturing. Manufacturing is now being done by robots, basically.

And will be done more by robots in the future. There is no point in

trying to hold that back. That is the future. What happens to all

those people who cannot stop like the miners and car manufacturers,

who can actually be taught to be computer code is in the future? This

is a cultural, political, social, economic crisis. It is a slow-moving

one but a crisis none the less. You touched on our political

discourse on both sides of the other that has become extremely nasty.

People are called names based on what they vote on, the kind of

things people say about other people they disagree with is quite nasty

and on the fringes of that beget various kinds of terrorism including

in Germany this week. We have is cleavage. Society is

falling into binary templated. Each of the accusing each other

deplorable attitudes and so on, that is going to be with us for some

time. I wonder whether we should call it populism. With populist

uprising against the old order and comes from social inequalities.

Economic equalities and Yvonne top of the -- and if governments

continue with austerity, cutting back public services, you got a

revolution in the making. People ask, what does the Government

do for me? Absolutely. Theresa May next year

has a huge problem on her hands, how to get Britain working again and how

to get people to earn a living wage. A living wage that can pay your

costs and your bills. That is the biggest problem. And the

rising levels of youth unemployment that we now almost take granted. The

fact that Spain has stumbled in trying to form a Government or have

policy that actually function, has use an opponent of about 25%. This

acceptance that we have these young people and they can either be all

casual lovers of Lexi to or whatever, this is just disguised

employment. That needs a solution because after the financial crisis,

banks were seen as too big to go but not communities.

Communities is a crucial work because it gives be built around a

local workplace when was the local coal mine, steelworks, the local

automotive plant, and it is not just the job that has lost it is the

whole sense of the continuity. I was talking about the fact that we

have manufacturing companies basically going down, losing markets

and so on. And yet the stock stock exchange is going up. Why? Because

governments pump new printed money into markets. Not into the economy.

That is the virtual economy. That is what I was talking about. The

governments are supporting the markets, not the economy. That is

such a crucial mistake of a virtual economy and as regards the online

companies, they are basically destroying the economy. They are not

creating the economy. I would not say all of them.

One might come these can create wealth. Just because you cannot

manufacture things does not mean that you do not create wealth. You

can create new kinds of transactions and communications.

In this economy Britain is now 70% of a service economy. The service

economy generally does not produce anything. Neither jobs, nor wealth,

nor anything. That is important. It does generate

wealth. We have to take into account that now you have millennial 's

Radio 1 Tavern to keep the same job for 30 years. We have to accept that

there are those changes but the key issue is what Thomas ways. --

raised. This is about being liberated from

Dougie don't have to be a core manner because your father was.

There are people who want to be coal and they do not have the possibility

any longer. Continuity. The barbers expecting the sun to follow them

down the pits or whatever. The choices, you have to become an

addict International bit of the labour force that is being flung an

over the world at the behest of capital enterprises. That breakdown

of community is very serious. Let's move on because the wars and

divisions in Syria, Yemen and others are viewed by local resentments but

also by something which is intractable. The rivalry between

Saudi Arabia and other countries exerting influence. Can we say that

2016 has proved to be a good year for Iran? A nuclear deal with the

United States, expanding influence and the consolidation of the Assad

regime in Damascus. It has been a good year for Teheran.

2050 was a better year. They struck the deal then and was little heat

in... With the Obama presidency ending there will be much top --

tougher questions. In 2016 Orion lost at least 1000 soldiers in

Syria. They are losing many in Iraq also. It is good in terms of

politically, they, stronger in the region than others. Turkey had

unaccounted cool on the presidency. -- and attempted coup. Domestically

there are key problems because the economy is not picking up as fast as

they promise people. And there are deep divisions that we will see

rising in 2017 as we gear up to elections. I would say, however,

that for Iran's long-term prosperity they need prosperity in their region

and that has not come about this year.

A good year for Putin. Almost everybody agrees. It is a

good year for Putin in the sense that Hillary Clinton did not win the

election. Let's put it this way. I think there is some potential in

Trump working with Putin and maybe the Middle East will benefit from

that. Because we had a situation that was absolutely impossible to

have a proper good impact on the Middle East when America basically

had a stand-off with Russia. Now, as regards putting's future, we might

say this year was good for him. -- leading Putin's future. He will face

enormous challenges next year because the economy is not doing

well in Russia. And whatever happens in Syria, whatever happens all over

the world, for Putin, the main crunch will be solving the Ukraine

crisis and the economy. And the signs are not good for both.

I am always shocked when I hear it has been a good year for Putin. It

is been a horrific year for the people of Syria and Putin Russia

would have had it in their power to do something in the United Nations

Security Council to stop the bloodshed and arrange a coalition to

talk about future Syria. Putin has continually blocked all efforts in

New York to bring the fighting parties in Syria to feel and get to

begin the negotiations. And I think that refusal to work and a positive

way and constructive way for an end of is the biggest brain that I can

attach to Putin. In order to safeguard his influence in the area,

he sacrificed thousands of people on the alter of his big power politics

and establishing a hold. I'm sure a good year for Putin is a horrible

year for Syria. And Iran also is part of that.

Putin has done the grand slam this year. He has become the most

powerful man on the planet for the third year running. He's the chief

actor in the Middle East because America simply backed away because

there was no leadership from the west to give him a contest. And now

he perhaps is stuck. I think he has wedged himself into a position of

tremendous power in the region but in trouble at home. Still stuck with

the bat that is economy is absolutely dependent on the wheel

price but they're verging attentions from the problems at home with this

imperial move abroad. Can I suggest one of the reasons

2017 could be a good year for Putin is that the EU is an absolute

disarray, isn't it? I don't think he benefits because

Russia does need a strong European Union, strong Europe, for trade.

Because they're Republicans coming up all the time. -- because there

are problems coming up all the time. Why would Russia backed a loser? All

this talk about Russia supporting right-wing movements in Europe, it

has got nothing to do with the real politics of what is going on.

They are supporting... They're very keen to get Turkey onside to pull

Turkey away from the Nato 's beer of influence and to get a foothold. Our

door one is going in the Russian direction and becoming less

interested in human rights, more dictatorial, displaying into Putin's

hands. Do you believe that Russian things

that a Nato member would become a close friend of Moscow?

They are behaving as if they do. I think it is more tactical. Erica

-- Erdogan. Taking a step forward, taking a step back and confusing

their allies in the region and that has been one of the issues. Iran had

a better year than Arab allies because at the sport Iran there was

much more policy. Talking about good and bad years I

would suggest it has been a bad year for the European Union.

This is what I meant to say when you are walking, about the interests of

Putin. The weaknesses in Europe also stems from the unsolved problem in

the middle is. Putin is causing ever more refugees to be shipped in to

migrate to other parts of Europe which would increase instability in

the west. It leads onto the last question as to whether or not there

is a Cold War in Europe? The Westerners too weak to present a

solid front that it used to have. It is struggling to compass to terms

with his own crisis. 2017 will not see the end of that.

The case for a Cold War. For there being some kind of new Cold War in

this continent of hours, is Ukraine, which you have pointed out is a

matter of great sensitivity to Russia. As you know, the Baltic

nations, Sweden for example is reinforcing islands in the Baltic

that they withdrew troops from 25 years ago. It is doing extraordinary

things. Real sensitivities in the Baltic states as well so how do you

see the relations between Putin and the west, particularly Nato?

Relations will be terrible because Nato is not only close to the

Borders, it is actually increasing military presence right on the

border and anyone who knows the real situation in Europe would laugh at

the assumption that Russia is banning to attack the Baltic Poland

anybody else in Europe. Hadn't Russian generals thought

aloud about the possibility of a limited nuclear award in Europe not

to be unthinkable? When Nato is moving troops to the

Russian border, of course there will be noise is made about nuclear

weapons and so on. But the point of the matter is that the west has

crossed the line in Ukraine. This was going to...

The west has crossed the line? Excuse me, it has encouraged a coup,

basically, in Kyoto. And suddenly we see history been divided. -- in GF.

We forget what happened in Kiev. You don't have Government is being

overthrown in Europe, elected governments, and then every body

says, well, it is just popular uprising, when it was funded and

encouraged by Western governments. I would leave that is true to

determine who is behind the development in Ukraine. I am more

worried about Western Europe not only being unstable because of the

crises that have come but also splintering from America. The old

axis of stability which meant the American nuclear...

Liberalism has collapsed. Liberal governments are no longer effective.

Excuse me, you can see it with Brexit, you can see it with Trump,

you can see it was all these movements.

The complacent liberal hegemony is what has given rise to all these

right-wing populist movements. At the Liberal Government had been more

attentive to their own populations and the disenchantment we would not

be in this situation. We won't agree on that but with the

viewers left, how has the left in Europe, in particular, but also in

North America and the Philippines, why has the left been so we?

I think we've moved beyond the age of ideological dichotomy. Left or

right no longer seems to be... No, there are left and right.

Those wings which come together on the populism level, so the left

really has nowhere to go. It is the centre-left that is the

problem. It is the centre-left, the Germany of the centre-left. They

actually thought that the blood was over. -- the head Germany. All they

were talking about, all Clinton was talking about was identity politics.

Glass ceilings for women and social minorities and gay marriage and

these are issues that you talk about when you got nothing else to say.

And they're not relating to economic reality of most peoples lives.

In addition to that there is the issue of people became much more

focused on issue -based questions. Rather political allegiances.

Like referendums for example. Referendums have not helped this

case at all. Many people voted for trouble was that particular issue is

what they cared about. Whether it was economic migration of building a

wall with Mexico. That is what they voted for. To have somebody that

represents the Republican Party was not a Republican says a lot.

We are missing one important point. The left has mismanaged the economy

for a good decade. And now we see the results of that. The economies

are mismanaged in Britain and America and France and Germany,

everywhere. And that is wider repercussions is that people are fed

up with this. You have to run your economy properly and then you can

talk about social issues, families, equal rights and so on. The left

just decided to forget the economy and talk about social issues only.

I think the wrong ideas about the economy. Quantitative easing is a

way of solving, that was a disaster. It was a short-term disaster. It had

begun in order to save us from collapse.

I think we've agreed that all these crises have removed the old

certainty of left and right sort of dichotomy.

The left and right are distinctly different. Can I ask? Would you be

glad to see the back of 2016? I'm speaking for many of our viewers who

think, thank goodness. Come on, it will be better. I think

it is time we forget 2016, honestly. The anniversary of the Russian

Revolution. That will give you something to look forward to.

The uncertainty of 2016, we need to forget it because it was dangerous.

One certainty about Russia and 2016 was the discovery of cheating in the

Olympic Games and Russia has had the application for the Olympic Games

withdrawn. This revelation gives me a lot of comfort that the cheats of

the world are being called off and called out...

Russia needs to leave the Olympic movement causes corrupt and its

needs to stop. Russia is a corrupt partner.

All countries are on with it. We don't have the time to go through

all sporting corruption. The huge uncertainty is, what is

Trump really about? She has so many generals but he has appointed

somebody a Secretary of State who is supposedly a great friend Putin. How

is going to work? If he is going to be number two in the state 's

Department is it going to be hard clock, soft cop? I don't understand

the thinking behind it. You growers perfectly to next week's

programme. That is it for today. You can comment on Twitter and in gauge

with our guests and they will argue back, I can promise you. We will be

back next time with our look ahead to the delights of 2017. Goodbye.