Browse content similar to 29/07/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to Dateline London. | :00:23. | :00:25. | |
This week we hear more about Europe's migrant crisis. | :00:26. | :00:30. | |
One of my guests is just back from seeing the impact | :00:31. | :00:33. | |
of the continuing flow of people into Italy. | :00:34. | :00:37. | |
We'll discuss the state of the French presidency. | :00:38. | :00:39. | |
And - what a week in the White House. | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
My guests this week are the writer and broadcaster | :00:44. | :00:46. | |
Yasmin Alibhai-Brown, Agnes Poirier from France's | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
Marianne, John Fisher Burns of the New York Times, | :00:51. | :00:59. | |
and the British-Somali journalist and writer | :01:00. | :01:04. | |
at Prospect magazine, Ismail Einashe. | :01:05. | :01:07. | |
We will begin with the migrant crisis. We talked about it not that | :01:08. | :01:22. | |
long ago but it is an issue that is absolutely not going away. We have a | :01:23. | :01:26. | |
great opportunity to discuss first-hand the issue and some of the | :01:27. | :01:30. | |
problems facing Europe as it struggles to cope with wave after | :01:31. | :01:32. | |
wave of migrants. Ismail, you've just returned | :01:33. | :01:40. | |
from Italy, which is bearing the brunt of this tide of humanity | :01:41. | :01:43. | |
escaping war, famine, Well, the last several years Italy | :01:44. | :01:53. | |
has become Europe's's migrant bottleneck. Since 2014 500 thousand | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
have arrived on Italian shores. This year alone 94,000 have arrived in | :01:59. | :02:04. | |
five days a couple of weeks ago 11,000 raved. -- arrived. I've been | :02:05. | :02:11. | |
talking to many of those who make the dangerous journey, often from | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
countries such as Gambia, Nigeria and from eastern parts of Africa. | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
These are young men who often head out into the unknown across Africa, | :02:20. | :02:24. | |
who arrived in Libya which is currently in the Civil War. From | :02:25. | :02:29. | |
there they set off on a dangerous journey into the unknown where they | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
get rescued and they arrived in these tiny, cut-off, isolated towns | :02:35. | :02:38. | |
after they get rescued in Italy. Italy is not coping with this | :02:39. | :02:45. | |
crisis. The Italian Prime Minister Paolo Gentiloni described it as | :02:46. | :02:47. | |
unbearable and in the last few days there has been a conference in Tunis | :02:48. | :02:55. | |
between African and European ministers, and also Italy has said | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
in the last few days that it may shut its ports to rescue boats. Also | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
Italy has threatened to actually give migrants who are in limbo in | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
these southern towns in Italy and Sicily visas to head north. In | :03:09. | :03:14. | |
retaliation, Austria has said they may send a battalion of troops to | :03:15. | :03:17. | |
the Italian border to stop the influx of people heading north. We | :03:18. | :03:23. | |
will talk about the responsibilities of other EU countries, the fact | :03:24. | :03:30. | |
Italy says it can't cope. I'm interested in some of the personal | :03:31. | :03:33. | |
stories. What were the reasons people by giving you for why they | :03:34. | :03:39. | |
left wherever they had come from? Whether it's from Eritrea, where | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
young men are skipping conscription and a state that persecutes people, | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
but most of these stories are really young people. They are probably | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
14-18, largely African. A lot of them from Western Africa. Big come | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
for a multitude of reasons but primarily you might describe them as | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
being migrants. They often come in search of a European dream. In these | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
countries, people often hear about Europe through social media and | :04:07. | :04:08. | |
Facebook and they see their friends in Europe and they say, I want a | :04:09. | :04:14. | |
slice of that. They embark on these dangerous journeys across Africa | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
into Italy, many of them then find that this European dream sours and | :04:19. | :04:22. | |
they'll stock in these reception centres in these Italian villages. | :04:23. | :04:28. | |
In these villages actually, for example there has been real problems | :04:29. | :04:34. | |
with corruption. In one of them in Calabria the Mafia run an operation | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
for ten years costing the Italian government tens of millions of | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
euros. The response of other European countries, we were | :04:44. | :04:47. | |
discussing this last week, is what? The figures are growing year-on-year | :04:48. | :04:54. | |
on year. This week we had Emmanuel Macron holding a summit with the | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
main rivals in Libya, trying to resolve the political crisis. Libya | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
is the platform. You know, they go through Libya and risking their | :05:06. | :05:11. | |
lives through the Mediterranean. There is a boom in human traffickers | :05:12. | :05:16. | |
there. Obviously Italy didn't take it very well. They consider Libya as | :05:17. | :05:27. | |
being the former colony, it is part of their remit. On the other hand, | :05:28. | :05:33. | |
I've been crossing the French Italian border to ten years and you | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
see the evolution. The French police now, all the high-speed trains going | :05:39. | :05:44. | |
through the Alps have to wait longer and longer. You know you're going to | :05:45. | :05:49. | |
be delayed by at least 20-30 minutes and it's getting longer, because you | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
have the French police catching migrants on the trains or outside. | :05:54. | :06:04. | |
You've got this mini-Calais's now. Also on the outskirts of Paris. What | :06:05. | :06:12. | |
we are talking is a European crisis. Of course there is the political | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
asylum seekers, and there's the economic migrants. But it creates | :06:18. | :06:24. | |
this huge migration problem. Can I suggest that we should use the word | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
crisis for those people who have to leave their homes. Uganda, which is | :06:29. | :06:35. | |
my old home country from which I was exciting 45 years ago, in the last | :06:36. | :06:43. | |
year has taken 500,000 refugees from South Sudan. What has Uganda done? | :06:44. | :06:50. | |
Uganda is one of the poorest nations in the world. Uganda has given | :06:51. | :06:55. | |
groups of them, or family groups, a plot of land. The idea that we | :06:56. | :07:01. | |
Europeans, and I do consider myself, I will always be a European, Brexit | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
or not Brexit, I consider myself part of an extraordinary continent | :07:06. | :07:11. | |
with extraordinary history. If what is going on is a failure, is a | :07:12. | :07:17. | |
massive failure to understand Libya wasn't the place it is before the | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
French and the Brits went into Libya. I'm not a friend of Colonel | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
Gaddafi but surely we are intelligent enough to know that we | :07:27. | :07:29. | |
went there and created the situations which has made some of | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
this possible. Which is why people want to leave. I would be really | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
interested in finding out about this conference. It is partly the fault | :07:39. | :07:42. | |
of African leadership that is creating this misery for their | :07:43. | :07:46. | |
people. Having spent some time in Libya during the UK French and | :07:47. | :07:52. | |
sometime American military operations that toppled Colonel | :07:53. | :07:55. | |
Gaddafi, I think it's fair to say that Colonel Gaddafi played a role | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
in this by opening Libya to the northward migration of tens of | :08:00. | :08:07. | |
thousands of migrants from sub Saharan Africa, who were in a state | :08:08. | :08:10. | |
that silly desperation by the time that conflict began. -- in a state | :08:11. | :08:18. | |
of absolute desperation. They were trying to get out of Libyan | :08:19. | :08:21. | |
territorial waters and it was that which began and sent a signal that | :08:22. | :08:26. | |
there was a way out of the misery. That leads me to a more general | :08:27. | :08:33. | |
point, I spent 50 years as a correspondent, much of it in the | :08:34. | :08:36. | |
more desperate parts of the world. I've approach myself for not having | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
realised that this divide between North and South, between rich and | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
poor, between white and black, was unsustainable. That modern | :08:46. | :08:49. | |
technology and particularly cable and satellite TV which brought | :08:50. | :08:55. | |
images of the rich Western world into the smallest communities of | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
what we call the third World, was bound to lead to tens of thousands, | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
ultimately millions of people wanting to make it to our world. I | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
think whatever technical adjustments we make, that's a fact we are going | :09:09. | :09:13. | |
to have to deal with. Part of it is that the Eritreans aren't doing it | :09:14. | :09:20. | |
to get our fancy cars and lifestyle. They are living totally, totally | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
devastated lives in Eritrea. The African leadership over how many | :09:26. | :09:30. | |
decades has failed their people. If it was you or I in that situation, | :09:31. | :09:36. | |
what would we do? If we had the wherewithal what would we do? Those | :09:37. | :09:39. | |
who want to try to control the numbers would argue that is | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
precisely the point of International development, and that is why money | :09:44. | :09:47. | |
should be spent to make life better for everyone, no matter where they | :09:48. | :09:50. | |
live, so they don't want to leave home at its most simple. There is an | :09:51. | :09:55. | |
unspoken subject which is somewhere needs to be properly debated, which | :09:56. | :09:58. | |
is overpopulation amongst the poorest. That is what I was going to | :09:59. | :10:10. | |
say. You said, John, unsustainable. No one is talking about the birth | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
rate in Africa. Some people do but not enough. Two weeks ago African | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
leaders said the word for the first time and they said we must control | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
in some Francophone parts of Africa we are talking about eight children | :10:23. | :10:29. | |
per woman. Christian American fundamentalists are in Africa, | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
absolutely opposing contraception, abortion, all of those things that | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
were freely available at one time. There's a kind of tightening of the | :10:38. | :10:41. | |
very thing that would stop it, and education. There is another aspect | :10:42. | :10:47. | |
of this crisis which is not the world, and I travelled the 40 or 50 | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
years, and the way we cover that world, was guided basically by the | :10:52. | :10:57. | |
United Nations Charter of human rights. Human rights was the measure | :10:58. | :11:01. | |
by which we judge the performance of governments all over the world. The | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
fact is we are now in the face of a crisis, where European peoples in | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
particular are being asked to choose between the Charter of human rights | :11:10. | :11:12. | |
on the one hand, and maintaining their societies as they apparently, | :11:13. | :11:18. | |
according to every referendum and vote one has thing, what they would | :11:19. | :11:24. | |
apparently wish to do. Which is not allowing this vast migration | :11:25. | :11:26. | |
northward. How we're going to resolve that I don't know, | :11:27. | :11:34. | |
personally identify solutions. Fundamentally, to resolve this | :11:35. | :11:37. | |
endless crisis on Europe's's borders, is going to take a lot more | :11:38. | :11:43. | |
than having an effective rescue mission which the European Union | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
ought to have. In the last few years the EU has effectively pursued a | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
policy which lets migrants died in Europe's's sees to deter others from | :11:52. | :11:57. | |
coming. Fundamentally the root causes of far from the Borders. They | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
are to do with youth population and I think we need to think bold about | :12:03. | :12:08. | |
a plan for Africa. European leaders are very much zeroed in on | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
short-term political calculations. They aren't thinking longer term. | :12:13. | :12:15. | |
There needs to be longer term solutions to the root causes in | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
Eritrea, Gambia, Nigeria, which stops people from going further | :12:20. | :12:26. | |
north. Actually, I have reports in these countries that when people | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
leave it is of detriment of those societies because the best and | :12:31. | :12:36. | |
brightest leaves. We talk about the flood, what sort of numbers can we | :12:37. | :12:42. | |
put on it at this stage? In Italy according to the UN, 94,000 have | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
landed this year which I think is a 17% increase on last year. Reports | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
suggest there are 300,000 people currently waiting in Libya in | :12:52. | :12:54. | |
horrendous conditions in these centres. Of course just add, this is | :12:55. | :13:01. | |
the summer season so it tends to be a peak. The numbers are going to | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
increase, this crisis isn't going to go away. This reveals the fault | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
lines and divides in Europe. Unfortunately Italy is struggling | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
and the Italian government feels that this should be looked at as a | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
pan-European problem. The northern countries are seeing this as a | :13:19. | :13:21. | |
problem on Europe's's periphery for Greece and Italy. Peer research | :13:22. | :13:31. | |
amongst EU countries, the British are the largest number living | :13:32. | :13:36. | |
abroad. I just thought I would throw that in. British people, indigenous | :13:37. | :13:41. | |
British people, have always gone abroad. This was a good and | :13:42. | :13:44. | |
interesting figure in the research study. We are going to move on. | :13:45. | :14:00. | |
President Macron has talked about hotspots for asylum seekers. | :14:01. | :14:04. | |
Certainly in this country, in London we read a raft of reports about how | :14:05. | :14:09. | |
he is suddenly not that popular after all. Is that true? Where do | :14:10. | :14:17. | |
you see his still relatively early presidency? It's interesting, | :14:18. | :14:21. | |
President Macron sells like Trump does. There was a slight drop in the | :14:22. | :14:26. | |
polls because of the resignation of the top army chief. That's what it's | :14:27. | :14:36. | |
down to. Now the crux of the matter, really, and we'll see what he's made | :14:37. | :14:41. | |
of, is going to happen after a lull of the summer. After which he is | :14:42. | :14:47. | |
actually going to meet face-to-face with the trade unionists. Probably | :14:48. | :14:54. | |
in the street with protests because he intends, at least that is what he | :14:55. | :15:01. | |
said, to reform massively labour laws and things that French | :15:02. | :15:04. | |
presidents have said they would be doing over the last 50 years. So | :15:05. | :15:10. | |
we'll see. It's interesting, he's completely new. Most of us look at | :15:11. | :15:14. | |
him not knowing exactly what he's made. We are a bit like Charles | :15:15. | :15:19. | |
Darwin and his study looking at a new species! LAUGHTER We are quite | :15:20. | :15:23. | |
hopeful it's going to work. We have no idea whether will. He's different | :15:24. | :15:30. | |
from Francois Hollande which can only be a good thing. This flurry of | :15:31. | :15:35. | |
reports that he's trying to achieve what Tony Blair did in 1997 with | :15:36. | :15:41. | |
London the cool city to live in. We don't talk much about Macron being a | :15:42. | :15:48. | |
Tony Blair in France, we tend to look at him as a... In the 70s he | :15:49. | :15:56. | |
was a modern man. He was young at the time and trying to implement new | :15:57. | :16:07. | |
things. But he loves the Palace and he loves the backdrop. Somebody said | :16:08. | :16:10. | |
he's a bit like one of the old Kings. We call him Jupiter. Jesus? I | :16:11. | :16:22. | |
haven't heard that yet! It's because he had his picture taken with | :16:23. | :16:33. | |
Rhianna. Let's talk about events in the US. If we got the start was | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
colourful with Trump's harsh tweets about Jeff Sessions and the policy | :16:38. | :16:42. | |
about transgender people in the Armed Forces, the last few days have | :16:43. | :16:46. | |
surpassed that. There seems to be all out war in the West Wing with | :16:47. | :16:50. | |
his new communications director Anthony Scaramucci rattling off | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
expletives about senior colleagues. Now one of them, Reince Priebus has | :16:55. | :16:58. | |
already gone. All of that is a backdrop to something else, the | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
failure for the third time of Donald Trump to overturn Obamacare, the | :17:03. | :17:08. | |
Affordable Care Act. John Fisher Burns, what is going on? I can only | :17:09. | :17:15. | |
shake my head. I think all of us who love America and people of our | :17:16. | :17:19. | |
generation have many reasons to do that. Our prosperity and freedoms | :17:20. | :17:26. | |
have been sustained in many ways by the United States throughout my | :17:27. | :17:30. | |
lifetime. One can only look upon these developments with a sense of | :17:31. | :17:33. | |
grief. It seems to me it's beyond redemption. This isn't likely to be | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
a presidency that lasts five years. It might even be a presidency that | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
doesn't last one year. How does it end? The word impeachment is written | :17:44. | :17:48. | |
on the horizon. That could be a nasty fight, because of course there | :17:49. | :17:54. | |
would be large majorities needed first of all to vote on articles of | :17:55. | :18:00. | |
impeachment and second novel to a trial with the majority that would | :18:01. | :18:05. | |
be needed in order to oust Trump from office. It seems to me that if | :18:06. | :18:09. | |
we think of that as the salvation of America, it's pretty short-sighted. | :18:10. | :18:15. | |
Trump is the symptom not the cause of America's malaise. There is a | :18:16. | :18:19. | |
deep malaise that has been developing for decades in America. | :18:20. | :18:26. | |
Large numbers of people feeling excluded from the benefits of | :18:27. | :18:31. | |
government. No matter what happens to Trump, that problem will still be | :18:32. | :18:36. | |
there to be resolved. I suppose, ever the optimist, I think maybe | :18:37. | :18:40. | |
America's reached a point as it did for example before the Civil War, | :18:41. | :18:45. | |
and in the depth of the depression, when somebody emerges, does the | :18:46. | :18:51. | |
Times make the man or the man make the times? Abraham Lincoln, FDR, who | :18:52. | :18:56. | |
somehow sets about binding up the wings of the nation. Let's hope that | :18:57. | :19:00. | |
there is somebody. It may be somebody we don't know of or | :19:01. | :19:03. | |
somebody who is currently a minor figure on the political horizon, who | :19:04. | :19:07. | |
can somehow bring salvation to America out of all of this. I'd like | :19:08. | :19:15. | |
to partake in John Requa's gravity. We choose to ignore Trump because | :19:16. | :19:21. | |
this is too much to follow every day. We have to catch up like a TV | :19:22. | :19:27. | |
series. We are being sarcastic or ironic or we laugh, but essentially | :19:28. | :19:29. | |
we are talking about the United States of America. This is, you | :19:30. | :19:35. | |
know, terrible. This is tragic what's happening. I agree, the | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
United States used to be great. It isn't any more. If there was a | :19:40. | :19:44. | |
comparison, I was thinking... We are talking about dark hours of history | :19:45. | :19:50. | |
for America. Pulse of people who voted for Donald Trump suggest them | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
vast majority are still glad they did so. They don't regret that vote. | :19:55. | :20:00. | |
There is a measure of the underlying malaise. 63 million people were not | :20:01. | :20:04. | |
duped. These people knew what they wanted and they wanted Trump. There | :20:05. | :20:09. | |
is another aspect to this which is not enough is being spoken about, | :20:10. | :20:20. | |
which is the book by Jane Meyers, Dark Money, and some of the research | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
being done on the really sinister group of very rich people who have | :20:25. | :20:28. | |
as their mission, and Trump is one of the planned products of this. | :20:29. | :20:35. | |
Steve Bannon is among them, who are determined to change the face of | :20:36. | :20:40. | |
liberal democracies. To create states of hardly any taxation for | :20:41. | :20:44. | |
the rich. There's something else beside the disillusionment, really | :20:45. | :20:48. | |
planned bringing down of the states as we once knew it. To pick the | :20:49. | :20:55. | |
theme around the liberal democracies and the malaise, when Trump came to | :20:56. | :21:00. | |
Europe, immediately after he left Hungary and after he left Poland, | :21:01. | :21:05. | |
there was a retreat in those countries in terms of that liberal | :21:06. | :21:11. | |
democracy. I think Trump exemplifies, and it's interesting | :21:12. | :21:14. | |
John was saying he's the symptom not the cause of the malaise growing for | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
decades in America. That's not just true in the US, it is true in the | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
UK. We've had R.N. Situation with Brexit. It's true in other | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
countries. Even in France, you might celebrate Macron for now, how long | :21:28. | :21:32. | |
will that last? Is Macron merely a cover for something much deeper? | :21:33. | :21:38. | |
What's been really worrying is that on all the important thing is that | :21:39. | :21:41. | |
America ought to be engaging on with its climate change, dealing with | :21:42. | :21:45. | |
terrorism, whether it's dealing with the consequences of the financial | :21:46. | :21:51. | |
crash, America has retreated. I think perhaps Americans might | :21:52. | :21:54. | |
realise too late that Trump has done too much damage. I'm aware of | :21:55. | :22:02. | |
European smugness about this. It seems to me we'll see this in the | :22:03. | :22:05. | |
next weeks and months with Macron pro and his coming fight with the | :22:06. | :22:09. | |
labour unions. He wouldn't be the first French president to lose that | :22:10. | :22:13. | |
fight. Europe has a deep malaise of its own. Is Europe itself reform | :22:14. | :22:31. | |
Abel? If Europe proves to be unreformable, and the status of | :22:32. | :22:34. | |
economic or bring Europe down, Brexit. To look different. I do | :22:35. | :22:38. | |
think it's time for us to celebrate or be smug about what's happening in | :22:39. | :22:43. | |
America, I think we have our own crisis to deal with. I don't think | :22:44. | :22:47. | |
anybody here is, we are taking it very seriously that the causes | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
aren't just disillusionment by a population. There is concerted | :22:53. | :22:57. | |
action going on by people to bring down liberal democracies. I | :22:58. | :23:01. | |
appreciate you feel there are darker forces at work. John, on the topic | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
of policy, this is six months into this administration. I'm curious | :23:07. | :23:10. | |
whether anybody feels the soap opera element of it and Anthony Scaramucci | :23:11. | :23:15. | |
and everything that is distracting in a soap opera Wade is deliberately | :23:16. | :23:19. | |
done to distract from policy. Because what has been achieved, he | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
couldn't sort out Obamacare. If we were able to determine that there | :23:25. | :23:28. | |
was some sort of Russia now I'm this, it appears to me there is none | :23:29. | :23:39. | |
-- rationale. It is a president who lives from tweet tweet and it is | :23:40. | :23:43. | |
positively frightening. I see no order emerging from this chaos, | :23:44. | :23:48. | |
short of some radical constitutional move, which now to me begins to look | :23:49. | :23:55. | |
more and more likely. Are there no policy achievements at all in the | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
six months? I wouldn't hesitate to say that but that would lead us into | :24:00. | :24:03. | |
highly controversial debates about what is good and what is bad. You | :24:04. | :24:06. | |
would have to say overall, the record has been one of failure. You | :24:07. | :24:13. | |
said perhaps the person who will, as you would see it, change things, is | :24:14. | :24:18. | |
someone who is as yet unknown to us all? Is there no one? Is there | :24:19. | :24:23. | |
anyone in the Republican party who feel the same way? There are and | :24:24. | :24:28. | |
we've seen it this week in debate on health care in the Senate. There are | :24:29. | :24:32. | |
some very fine people in the United States Congress. Maybe there are | :24:33. | :24:40. | |
people we aren't sure of yet like Nikki Haley the ambassador to the | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
United Nations. Just one name. Maybe there is somebody who can show some | :24:46. | :24:49. | |
sort of sense of historic responsibility and perspective, who | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
can begin to bind these winds. It fills the ball is in the core top | :24:55. | :24:58. | |
Republicans. They have to do their job, and to start thinking about | :24:59. | :25:03. | |
their fast. They have two tidy the mess. I mean, they make me think, | :25:04. | :25:15. | |
Trump makes me think of Petain, the darkest hour was France in the 20th | :25:16. | :25:20. | |
century. The Republican party members as well. They really need to | :25:21. | :25:24. | |
do something. It's not that the Democrats, the Democrats lost the | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
election. I think we need to have an optimistic view of this. America has | :25:29. | :25:31. | |
had a tremendous potential throughout its history to get itself | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
into big trouble, but it's also shown tremendous potential to get | :25:36. | :25:40. | |
itself out of trouble. I wish I shared your Americanness! You've | :25:41. | :25:48. | |
dared to end on a note of optimism, John, thank you! | :25:49. | :25:50. | |
That's all we have time for this week. | :25:51. | :25:54. | |
Enjoy your summer breaks, if you're getting one! | :25:55. | :26:00. | |
Do join us again next week, same time same place. | :26:01. | :26:02. | |
We've got some fairly unsettled weather on the cards through the | :26:03. | :26:39. | |
weekend. It's not going to be a write-off. There is some sunshine | :26:40. | :26:42. | |
around too. He is the | :26:43. | :26:43. |