Browse content similar to 09/02/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
Gym membership worth more than �2,000. Rugby and cricket tickets | :03:32. | :03:38. | |
worth �800. The Chief Executive's parking fine costing �110. Just | :03:38. | :03:41. | |
some of the things your money was being used for at Awema, a charity | :03:41. | :03:46. | |
which was supposed to promote equality and diversity. This is | :03:46. | :03:56. | |
:03:56. | :04:02. | ||
Good evening. Conflicts of interest that included a father voting on | :04:02. | :04:08. | |
his daughter's pay rise from �20,000 in 2008 to �50,000 today. | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
Irregular and infrequent board meetings. A failure to meet | :04:12. | :04:14. | |
statutory deadlines for filing accounts with Companies House and | :04:14. | :04:19. | |
the Charity Commission. These things and more have led to the | :04:19. | :04:21. | |
Welsh Government's report into allegations of financial | :04:21. | :04:23. | |
irregularities at Awema, Wales' leading ethnic minority | :04:23. | :04:25. | |
organisation, to comment that failings in control and governance | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
within Awema permeated the whole of the organisation and suggest that | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
the trustees, including the CEO Naz Malik, had little regard to the | :04:31. | :04:41. | |
:04:41. | :04:45. | ||
Tonight, the organisation's Chair Rita Austin said the Awema Board | :04:45. | :04:48. | |
would carry out its responsibility to manage an orderly exit for the | :04:48. | :04:58. | |
:04:58. | :05:05. | ||
He is the race relations charity boss who is at the centre of a | :05:05. | :05:11. | |
massive row. This is the third week we have been looking at the | :05:11. | :05:18. | |
situation that has seen All Wales Ethnic Minority Association's | :05:18. | :05:24. | |
funding suspended. There were serious concerns over bullying and | :05:24. | :05:31. | |
financial mismanagement. There were concerns with the financial | :05:31. | :05:38. | |
controls in the charity. I will be passing a copy of the report to the | :05:38. | :05:43. | |
Assembly. Today, we saw the report looking at the financial management | :05:43. | :05:48. | |
of the charity. It said they were unable to concern whether public | :05:48. | :05:58. | |
:05:58. | :05:59. | ||
funding that Awema had received was utilised for the purposes it had | :05:59. | :06:06. | |
been provided for. Also, there were serious shortcomings and failings | :06:06. | :06:16. | |
:06:16. | :06:17. | ||
in governments and financial management. We do not want to | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
prejudice the work of the Audit Office. They have accepted they | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
will undertake this review and it is important they are left to get | :06:25. | :06:33. | |
on with it. But people want to know if we Art emanating funding and we | :06:33. | :06:43. | |
:06:43. | :06:45. | ||
are. Last week, we reported how Awema's lawyers had advised that | :06:45. | :06:50. | |
Naz Malik should be suspended. The chair just gave him a written | :06:50. | :06:58. | |
warning. When I got into the chair, we looked at the solicitor's advice | :06:58. | :07:04. | |
and we did give it consideration. By you dismissed it in the end? | :07:04. | :07:08. | |
don't think it is fair to say we dismissed it. You chose not to | :07:08. | :07:14. | |
follow? I chose not to follow that aspect of it. Over the years and | :07:14. | :07:20. | |
despite complaints and allegations and investigations into Awema and | :07:20. | :07:27. | |
its chief executive Naz Malik, they continued to receive public money, | :07:27. | :07:36. | |
nearly a million pounds. So now, other bodies representing ethnic | :07:36. | :07:44. | |
minorities are asking how Awema have continued to be funded. The | :07:44. | :07:47. | |
South East Wales Racial Equality Council and does not receive money | :07:47. | :07:56. | |
from Awema, but does similar work. I am not sure what Awema has done | :07:56. | :08:00. | |
in my area. I do get a lot of clients coming in to ask for help | :08:00. | :08:07. | |
and support in things which Awema is there to provide and I know I | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
have at times cent people down there. Some of them have come back | :08:12. | :08:18. | |
to me and said, can you provide the support because the support here is | :08:18. | :08:28. | |
what they require. So that is something else that should be | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
looked at. Certainly, some of the work has been duplicated. What | :08:32. | :08:40. | |
could happen next? Well, Wales's for equality councils receive money | :08:41. | :08:48. | |
from Awema. They should now take over the work of Awema. Others say | :08:48. | :08:55. | |
they are worried about the situation at Awema affecting other | :08:55. | :09:01. | |
charities. There is a feeling that, here we go again, and it should not | :09:01. | :09:07. | |
be the case in terms of lumping all black organisations and individuals | :09:07. | :09:13. | |
to get her. Yes, I am generalising, but the nature of it, as I said, is | :09:13. | :09:18. | |
taking this for what it is and it is not about black individuals or | :09:18. | :09:24. | |
black organisations who cannot manage. There are many examples | :09:24. | :09:28. | |
where organisations and individuals are making valuable contributions | :09:28. | :09:33. | |
and that should be recognised. weeks ago when we first approached | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
Naz Malik for an interview, he said it would not be appropriate for him | :09:37. | :09:43. | |
to comment was awash government was still investigating. Well, that | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
report is published today, but Naz Malik has been instructed not to | :09:47. | :09:51. | |
conduct an interview. We tried to catch him on his way to work, but | :09:51. | :09:57. | |
he has not turned up. The serious failings at Awema had been a shock | :09:57. | :10:03. | |
to many, but those who have worked there over the years, it was no | :10:03. | :10:13. | |
:10:13. | :10:14. | ||
surprise. What people are concerned with now is what will happen to | :10:14. | :10:19. | |
beat community that Awema was set up to help? | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
Arwyn Jones reporting. As you saw in his report, among the many other | :10:23. | :10:25. | |
inquiries now underway is one looking at the historical funding | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
of Awema by the Welsh Government. It was nine years ago that Dragon's | :10:29. | :10:31. | |
Eye first broke the story of allegations of financial | :10:31. | :10:33. | |
irregularities and bullying at the organisation. After that a review | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
was commissioned by the then Social Justice Minister Edwina Hart. It | :10:36. | :10:39. | |
recommended in 2004 that funding for new projects be stopped until | :10:39. | :10:42. | |
procedures were tightened up. It wasn't. In 2007 the then Chair | :10:42. | :10:44. | |
resigned after writing to the Welsh Government alleging financial | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
malpractice. Kirsty Williams is the leader of the Welsh Liberal | :10:47. | :10:55. | |
Democrats. What is your reaction to today's | :10:55. | :11:02. | |
report? I am shocked by that comment. It is a damning indictment | :11:02. | :11:10. | |
of how taxpayers' money was spent by this organisation. Why did Welsh | :11:10. | :11:18. | |
ministers allow this to continued, despite warnings over the years? | :11:18. | :11:24. | |
That was not the function of this report. It makes clear that Awema | :11:24. | :11:30. | |
is not a Welsh government-sponsored body and it is not within the remit | :11:30. | :11:37. | |
of the report to examine the Welsh government's response. It was not | :11:37. | :11:41. | |
the responsibility of the report to establish that, but it demonstrates | :11:41. | :11:48. | |
that the concerns been raised in 2004 and 2007 when not acted upon | :11:48. | :11:53. | |
by Welsh ministers. Instead, despite warnings not to give the | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
organisation more money, the Welsh government poured money into this | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
organisation without carrying out the appropriate checks that the | :12:00. | :12:10. | |
:12:10. | :12:10. | ||
money was being spent wisely. We need answers from ministers. Why | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
did they ignore independent advice and warnings from people who had | :12:14. | :12:20. | |
experience of this organisation? Why were they ignored, why did | :12:20. | :12:25. | |
money go to this organisation from beat Watch government and why did | :12:25. | :12:32. | |
the government not check it was getting good value for money? | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
government did commission the Audit Office to look into the history of | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
the funding of Awema, so it seems they are trying to get to the | :12:40. | :12:46. | |
bottom of it. It is a bit like shutting the stable door before -- | :12:46. | :12:51. | |
after the horse has bolted. The government was warned about giving | :12:51. | :13:01. | |
:13:01. | :13:06. | ||
money to this organisation. Both in 2004 and 2007. It is a bit rich now | :13:06. | :13:13. | |
for Jane Hutt to be sent at this late stage after a �0.4 million of | :13:13. | :13:18. | |
taxpayers' money has been spent, that they are taking this situation | :13:18. | :13:23. | |
seriously. What do you want to happen now? We need clear answers | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
from the Welsh government. It is clear to me that what they are | :13:26. | :13:34. | |
doing, publishing a report at 4pm on the Thursday, they are not | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
coming forward with the answers that are needed. I want to know | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
what happened in the Welsh Assembly government to ignore warnings over | :13:42. | :13:47. | |
many years about this organisation? Why did they not take it seriously | :13:47. | :13:53. | |
and act sooner and why did they allow this situation to develop? At | :13:53. | :13:58. | |
best it was negligence. At worst it is time to look at the interesting | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
connections between the Welsh Assembly ministers, this | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
organisation and membership of the Labour Party. And where do you | :14:06. | :14:11. | |
stand in terms of your view of what happened and the reasons for it? | :14:11. | :14:16. | |
best, it is negligence on behalf of the Welsh Assembly Government, but | :14:16. | :14:20. | |
now we need some clear answers from the Welsh ministers about why they | :14:20. | :14:25. | |
did not at previously. They cannot continue to hide behind | :14:25. | :14:29. | |
investigations and saying they cannot comment. We need clarity | :14:29. | :14:32. | |
about why the Welsh ministers did not act when they had the | :14:32. | :14:37. | |
opportunity. Where does the responsibility lie in your view? | :14:37. | :14:42. | |
Ultimately, with the Welsh Assembly government. Some of them were at | :14:42. | :14:52. | |
:14:52. | :14:53. | ||
the table in 2,000 form and continue to sit around be -- in | :14:53. | :15:02. | |
2004 and continued to sit around the Cabinet table. I welcome the | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
fact the Welsh Audit Office is looking into this matter, but it is | :15:06. | :15:10. | |
not sustainable for ministers to hide behind investigations. We need | :15:10. | :15:15. | |
clarity about why the government did not act to protect Welsh | :15:15. | :15:18. | |
taxpayers' money and the interest of the communities that this | :15:18. | :15:22. | |
charity claimed to be representing. Should there be a debate over this? | :15:22. | :15:27. | |
We absolutely need one and a clear answer from the ministers. It is | :15:27. | :15:31. | |
not good enough to publish this report before an Assembly recess | :15:31. | :15:37. | |
and hope it will go away. It is too serious for that. Thank you. | :15:37. | :15:40. | |
For the third week in a row we asked the Welsh Government to | :15:40. | :15:42. | |
provide a minister to be interviewed on Dragon's Eye about | :15:43. | :15:45. | |
the way they have handled the situation at Awema. They declined, | :15:45. | :15:47. | |
explaining that the Equalities Minister Jane Hutt was providing | :15:48. | :15:50. | |
one single interview for all media outlets. You saw her in Arwyn's | :15:51. | :15:53. | |
report. I'm joined now by two leading | :15:53. | :15:55. | |
members of other organisations working with our diverse | :15:55. | :15:57. | |
communities - David Phillips from South East Wales Racial Equality | :15:57. | :15:59. | |
Council and Michael Flynn from Black Voluntary Sector Network | :15:59. | :16:09. | |
:16:09. | :16:12. | ||
Wales. Welcome to the programme. What is your reaction to the report, | :16:13. | :16:22. | |
:16:23. | :16:26. | ||
First, we are very relieved that we've had the report published. My | :16:26. | :16:32. | |
initial reaction to the content is quite devastating really for the | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
organisation involved. For us we are just happy that we've come to a | :16:36. | :16:38. | |
resolution, really happy that Jane Hutt made a statement today | :16:38. | :16:43. | |
regarding the funding. We are just hoping that we can move on as soon | :16:43. | :16:46. | |
as possible and engage in real conversation with the Government to | :16:46. | :16:51. | |
help them move on with this. those views that you share, David | :16:51. | :16:56. | |
Phillips? Yes they are. We've been worried about the impact of this | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
ongoing saga for the reputation of the qualities sector in general. It | :16:59. | :17:03. | |
is good to have a resolution. It is not good that they found that there | :17:03. | :17:11. | |
were so many things amiss. In terms of the role of Awema, it was an | :17:11. | :17:14. | |
umbrella organisation that sent funding to organisations around | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
Walesment neither of your oorgss in recent times received money from | :17:18. | :17:23. | |
Awema. But can you give an idea of the projects that are going on up | :17:23. | :17:27. | |
and down Wales that Awema funding may have gone into? Most of the | :17:27. | :17:31. | |
projects would have provided services or training opportunities, | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
the sorts of things that would help people from disadvantaged | :17:35. | :17:39. | |
backgrounds to be able to play on a more level playing field. It could | :17:39. | :17:45. | |
have been supported learning, job skills, it could have been a whole | :17:45. | :17:49. | |
range of things around education, confidence building. Those sorts of | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
things. What sort of things does your organisation do? It is | :17:53. | :17:58. | |
important to differentiate between the Awema situation and this report | :17:58. | :18:03. | |
and the damning content of what it contains. With the realistic and | :18:03. | :18:06. | |
good work carried out by the organisations, the grass roots | :18:06. | :18:09. | |
organisations throughout the country, who are providing great | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
services to vulnerable people throughout the country... Can you | :18:13. | :18:18. | |
give me an idea what sort of services? In terms of the kind of | :18:18. | :18:23. | |
things that your organisation does. For example David has given us an | :18:23. | :18:26. | |
idea. We are called the Black Voluntary Sector Network Wales and | :18:26. | :18:30. | |
we help to support and represent issues for grass roots level to a | :18:30. | :18:37. | |
ministerial level that BME people may face. We help the Welsh | :18:37. | :18:41. | |
Assembly Government develop policies and see how they impact on | :18:41. | :18:43. | |
different communities across qualities throughout the country. | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
We want to make sure that everyone in Wales has a chance to | :18:47. | :18:51. | |
participate in service provision and opportunities available to them. | :18:51. | :18:57. | |
So important work for giving voices to people who sometimes | :18:57. | :19:03. | |
historically haven't had much of a voice, David. How damaging is the | :19:03. | :19:06. | |
controversy over Awema have the allegations been to that work? | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
has been very damaging, but the fact that over the last three weeks | :19:10. | :19:17. | |
we've had the Welsh Government act in reasonably decisively I hope | :19:17. | :19:20. | |
that means we can draw a line under this. And the partners within the | :19:20. | :19:24. | |
European projects will be able to come together and work together to | :19:24. | :19:28. | |
share the load of taking that project forward. And in the future | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
that the Welsh Assembly Government will look to a wider range of | :19:31. | :19:36. | |
partners. I think one of the weaknesses has been that the Welsh | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
Government relied on one organisation as the main conduit | :19:40. | :19:46. | |
into the BME communities. There are a large number of BME community | :19:46. | :19:50. | |
organisations that can play a part in being that conduit, people on | :19:50. | :19:53. | |
the ground with those connections. That's an interesting point. What | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
should happen to the European funding that has been going to | :19:56. | :20:00. | |
organisations? How should that be channelled now It is important that | :20:00. | :20:06. | |
they carry on with that fund sog that the organisations that are -- | :20:06. | :20:14. | |
fund sog that the organisations that are involved get the money | :20:14. | :20:18. | |
from Awema. We wouldn't want to go back to Brussels. Wales doesn't get | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
enough European money, in my opinion. I don't think there's a | :20:21. | :20:26. | |
single organisation that could step in and take over or that would want | :20:26. | :20:30. | |
to. Forgive me for interrupting, but Michael, would you share the | :20:30. | :20:34. | |
points perhaps about the structure, that using one organisation to | :20:34. | :20:38. | |
filter money through hasn't been the best way to do things anyway? | :20:38. | :20:45. | |
There are really good organisations large and small within the country. | :20:45. | :20:48. | |
There are regional equality networks, new and up and coming | :20:48. | :20:52. | |
organisations who should be part of that process. I'm grateful to you | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
both for coming on to the programme. Thank you. | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
The three opposition parties in the Assembly are calling on the Welsh | :20:59. | :21:02. | |
Government to publish details of its meetings with lobbyists. The UK | :21:02. | :21:04. | |
Government, which already does this, is now also consulting on whether | :21:04. | :21:07. | |
there should be a legal register of people seeking to influence | :21:07. | :21:10. | |
Ministers. There are calls for that to cover Wales, as concerns | :21:10. | :21:12. | |
increase that Cardiff Bay is already falling behind Westminster | :21:12. | :21:22. | |
:21:22. | :21:33. | ||
and Whitehall in openness and In Britain lobbying has been called | :21:33. | :21:37. | |
a �2 billion industry. Its supporters say it is about | :21:37. | :21:41. | |
improving policy and legislation. Its critics have other ideas. | :21:41. | :21:45. | |
Lobbyists are not adding to the knowledge of Parliament. Their role | :21:45. | :21:51. | |
is parasitic. They are living off Parliament. And they are hear to | :21:51. | :21:56. | |
sell their talents and persuasive tal tonight the highest bidder. It | :21:56. | :22:01. | |
is about money. This is Central Lobby, the heart of Parliament. | :22:01. | :22:07. | |
Members of the public can meet their MPs here even without an | :22:07. | :22:10. | |
appointment. There are real concerns about the growing | :22:10. | :22:14. | |
Battalion of professional lobbyists and their impact on the political | :22:14. | :22:19. | |
process. It is the next big scandal waiting to happen. I'm talking | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
about lobbying... These gates may keep the public out of Downing | :22:22. | :22:26. | |
Street, but what about the lobbyists? In December a former | :22:26. | :22:30. | |
Conservative MP was secretly recorded boasting he had access to | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
the very heart of Government. A claim denied by Downing Street. | :22:34. | :22:39. | |
Many lobbyists say the industry has to change. I think the time has | :22:39. | :22:45. | |
come for statutory regulation. We've always voluntarily disclosed | :22:45. | :22:50. | |
our client and been on the voluntary register, but I think | :22:50. | :22:55. | |
public trust is so low in our industry we have to have a | :22:55. | :22:58. | |
statutory register. Many organisations want access to the | :22:58. | :23:02. | |
core doors of power and are willing to pay for it. The consultation | :23:02. | :23:05. | |
will look at how to define a lobbyist and what information | :23:05. | :23:08. | |
should be gathered about them and their clients. There are questions | :23:08. | :23:11. | |
over whether trade unions and charities should be included and | :23:11. | :23:15. | |
whether we should be told how much companies spend on lobbying. The UK | :23:15. | :23:20. | |
Government is also asking whether any new register should cover those | :23:20. | :23:25. | |
lobbying the devolved Governments, including the Assembly. This is not | :23:25. | :23:28. | |
just about Westminster. We need to have a proper debate about how we | :23:28. | :23:32. | |
do this in a way that encourages people to be involved in the | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
democratic process but ensures that it is open and transparent. It is | :23:36. | :23:40. | |
something that could really increase people's trust in | :23:40. | :23:43. | |
Government if we have more transparency and more information | :23:43. | :23:49. | |
about the roles of these kinds of corporate often interests in the | :23:50. | :23:53. | |
process. The Assembly in the Welsh Government currently set their own | :23:53. | :23:58. | |
rules. Many want that to continue but argue Wales needs its own | :23:58. | :24:01. | |
statutory register. We are in this building. Look at the glass. It is | :24:01. | :24:06. | |
supposed to be transparent, but of course it's not. Until you are | :24:06. | :24:11. | |
seeing where the Ministers, who the Ministers are meet manager, what | :24:11. | :24:17. | |
organisations are pressing them, it is not open Government. This week | :24:17. | :24:22. | |
Gareth Huws chaired a debate on the future of the media with visitors | :24:22. | :24:27. | |
to the Senedd. He said when he previously raised the issue he | :24:27. | :24:32. | |
received an anonymous call warning him it was none of his business. | :24:32. | :24:35. | |
don't take these things seriously but there's a serious obvious | :24:35. | :24:40. | |
message there, that these people don't want too see, you know, don't | :24:40. | :24:48. | |
want the floodlights to open up on what they are doing. I think that's | :24:48. | :24:51. | |
worrying. The UK Government publishes a list of all meetings | :24:51. | :24:56. | |
its Ministers have with lobbyists. There is no similar list here. So | :24:56. | :24:58. | |
while we could find out which organisations have met the | :24:58. | :25:01. | |
Secretary of State for Wales we've had to use freedom of information | :25:02. | :25:05. | |
laws to ask the same details about the First Minister of Wales. If you | :25:05. | :25:09. | |
have nothing to hide, let us see what is going on behind the closed | :25:09. | :25:13. | |
doors in the Welsh Government. If you have nothing to hide, you have | :25:13. | :25:18. | |
nothing to fear. So go ahead and publish these mights, show us who | :25:18. | :25:23. | |
you are meeting, let's get this register et up and see leadership | :25:23. | :25:28. | |
on this issue. All three opposition parties now take the same stance. | :25:28. | :25:30. | |
certainly think we should have a register of Lloyds Banking | :25:30. | :25:35. | |
Groupists here in sweels that everything is above board and | :25:35. | :25:37. | |
transparent. I think there's a legitimate reason as to why | :25:37. | :25:43. | |
Government Ministers should record former meetings that they have with | :25:43. | :25:48. | |
Lloyds Banking Groupists. Jonathan Morgan has gone through the so- | :25:48. | :25:52. | |
called revolving door into the world of lobbying. We live in a | :25:52. | :25:56. | |
small country. Wales is Tyney. I think if there were any public | :25:56. | :25:59. | |
affairs officers or companies that were engaged in dodgy dealings, | :25:59. | :26:06. | |
they would be found out pretty quickly. I think we've got a good | :26:06. | :26:12. | |
self-regulating system in Cardiff. Since last year the Assembly can | :26:12. | :26:16. | |
pass laws under health and education. With more powers will | :26:16. | :26:22. | |
come more lobbyists. Any suggestion that the UK is leave Wales behind | :26:22. | :26:24. | |
will concern many political observers. | :26:24. | :26:26. | |
A Welsh Government spokesperson said: "Welsh Ministers are subject | :26:26. | :26:29. | |
to the Ministerial Code - the principles of which are virtually | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
identical to the Code which applies to UK Ministers. We would therefore | :26:32. | :26:34. | |
carefully consider any new or revised guidelines produced by the | :26:34. | :26:37. | |
UK Government in relation to lobbying, if we felt there was | :26:37. | :26:43. | |
merit in applying it, or a version of it, here in Wales." | :26:43. | :26:47. | |
I'm joined now by Nick Ramsay, chair of the Conservative group in | :26:47. | :26:53. | |
the Assembly, and Dewi Knight from Public Affairs Cymru. Welcome to | :26:53. | :26:57. | |
the programme. Dewi Knight, let's talk about what lobbying is first | :26:57. | :27:03. | |
of all. You can give me an example of how it works. As a lobbyist what | :27:03. | :27:10. | |
do you do? Lobbying or public affairs activities are integ troop | :27:10. | :27:19. | |
the democratic space -- integral to the democratic space in Wales. We | :27:19. | :27:26. | |
work with Assembly Ministers to provide better laws for Wales. | :27:26. | :27:30. | |
you say better law, is it about representing the interests of a | :27:30. | :27:33. | |
specific group, whether it is a charity or a private company? Are | :27:33. | :27:37. | |
you trying to influence the Government to act in the way that | :27:37. | :27:45. | |
they want? Well, as anyone would do. I work for a university that is | :27:45. | :27:48. | |
interested in widening access today cation. We are trying to make that | :27:48. | :27:57. | |
better for the country as a whole, so we have better access to | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
education. I think it goes back to transparency. We've looked at the | :28:01. | :28:04. | |
way the UK coalition Government is going, so that when the public have | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
elected their politicians and those politicians have gone into | :28:08. | :28:11. | |
government they can see how they are representing the views that | :28:11. | :28:16. | |
they are. I don't see why we shouldn't go down that line in | :28:16. | :28:21. | |
Wales. It is supposed to be a transparent decky, what have the | :28:21. | :28:25. | |
Government got to hide. Dewi Knight, would you object to such a | :28:25. | :28:29. | |
register? No, I want. The UK Government says it is going to | :28:29. | :28:33. | |
consult with the devolved administrations and legislatures. | :28:33. | :28:38. | |
I'm not aware there's been discussions with the Assembly | :28:38. | :28:47. | |
commission or Government. We'll be keen to see perhaps the Wales-based | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
register, we could take the lead. understand you have concerns about | :28:51. | :28:55. | |
the approach that's being taken at a London level in terms of the | :28:55. | :29:00. | |
distinguishing between commercial interests and charity interests? | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
Public Affairs Cymru we don't make a distinction, whether they are | :29:04. | :29:10. | |
charities, or commercial public affairs firms. In Wales we think | :29:10. | :29:14. | |
everyone who is a lobbyist, whether a charity or commercial firm, | :29:14. | :29:18. | |
should be expected to adhere to the same sort of conduct, so that AMs | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
like Nick or Ministers are aware of how public affairs professionals | :29:22. | :29:25. | |
should conduct themselves. That sounds fair enough, Nick Ramsay. | :29:25. | :29:30. | |
Why isn't the Government in London doing this in a broader way? To be | :29:31. | :29:37. | |
fair to Dewi and Public Affairs Cymru they are an excellent example | :29:37. | :29:43. | |
of how public affairs can work. I hope this doesn't sound too | :29:43. | :29:49. | |
negative to our lobbyists. Many of us as Assembly Members have a lot | :29:49. | :29:53. |