02/02/2012 Dragon's Eye


02/02/2012

Similar Content

Browse content similar to 02/02/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Tonight, a special programme on Awema. He's a bully, he's a mean

0:00:010:00:07

bully. And he would try to intimidate you and if he finds you

0:00:070:00:11

are intimidated easily, he would use it over and over again.

0:00:110:00:14

staff member's opinion of the Chief Executive Naz Malik, based on her

0:00:140:00:24
0:00:240:00:27

experience of working at Awema. Good evening. There's further

0:00:270:00:30

turmoil tonight at Wales' foremost charity working with minority

0:00:300:00:34

ethnic communities. Dragon's Eye can reveal allegations of bullying

0:00:340:00:36

and harassment at the All Wales Ethnic Minority Association, or

0:00:360:00:40

Awema. Former and current employees have

0:00:400:00:42

spoken to tonight's programme about complaints they have made against

0:00:420:00:45

two of the charity's bosses - complaints they say have not been

0:00:450:00:55
0:00:550:00:57

properly investigated or resolved. Here's Arwyn Jones.

0:00:580:01:01

Awema Crowe has been in the headlines for allegations made

0:01:010:01:07

against her boss, Naz Malik. -- At the boss. But what was life like

0:01:080:01:16

for the staff? For one member, it was very clear. We were segregated,

0:01:160:01:23

there was the Future Jobs Fund and there was staff. When it came to

0:01:230:01:27

lunch time, we could not sit together. We were told to sit on

0:01:270:01:34

our table and they sat on another table. He is a bully, he is a mean

0:01:340:01:40

a bully and he would try to intimidate you. And if he found you

0:01:400:01:45

intimidated easily, he would use it over and over again. And I think he

0:01:450:01:48

likes being a man of power, he would like to have power over

0:01:480:01:54

people. In October last year, several members of a charity

0:01:540:01:58

Macro's staff wrote letters of grievance against the Chief

0:01:580:02:03

Executive Naz Malik. They also complained about his daughter, the

0:02:030:02:08

operations manager of Awema Crowe, seen here as a -- during her time

0:02:080:02:18
0:02:180:02:19

as a squash player -- Awema. There are accusations that 14 young

0:02:190:02:24

people who work at Awema were regularly bullied and intimidated.

0:02:240:02:28

Naseibah Al-Jeffery Was one of them. She claims that Future Jobs Fund

0:02:280:02:34

staff had to sit and deed differed -- separately, had to use different

0:02:340:02:41

toilet and pay �1 per week to use the water in the office. We saw

0:02:410:02:44

people from the Future Jobs Fund getting fired in front of us, so we

0:02:440:02:48

knew how easy it was for them to get rid of us. When we were told we

0:02:480:02:58
0:02:580:02:58

were not allowed to do this or that, it was something that we had to

0:02:580:03:03

keep quiet about, because it was either that or our jobs. And not

0:03:030:03:08

others wanted to go back. It was entirely part-time staff who were

0:03:080:03:13

alarmed that the treatment. -- it wasn't only. Full-time staff are

0:03:130:03:15

also disappointed that their complaints didn't lead to the

0:03:150:03:20

formal suspension of Naz Malik. One agreed to be interviewed only if we

0:03:200:03:25

disguised their identity. It is sad to say that up to this day, they

0:03:250:03:29

can carry on intimidating staff and bullying staff and it is

0:03:290:03:33

increasingly difficult for staff to continue in their work. It is

0:03:330:03:37

detrimental to the charity's work. People look at Awema and think this

0:03:370:03:43

is probably have all charities are run. And that is what instigated

0:03:430:03:45

the independent report we discussed last week, the accusations of

0:03:450:03:51

bullying. That report also included accusations of financial

0:03:510:03:56

irregularities against Naz Malik. The report recommended that both he

0:03:560:03:59

and his daughter be suspended pending further disciplinary action.

0:03:590:04:02

That didn't happen and they were both issued with a written warning

0:04:030:04:07

from the new chairman of trustees at Awema, Dr Rita Austin. The

0:04:070:04:11

member of staff we spoke to said the good name of Awema would

0:04:110:04:17

continue to decline unless they were suspended from their posts.

0:04:170:04:21

All the money we got was meant to go and help people from the ethnic

0:04:210:04:25

minority community and the damage to ethnic minority communities and

0:04:250:04:29

individuals is quite big. The organisation will not be able to

0:04:290:04:35

survive with the Malik family in power. It is time for at stake --

0:04:350:04:40

outsiders to step in. We showed the interviews and letters to an

0:04:400:04:43

employment lawyer. investigation into the grievances,

0:04:430:04:47

as opposed to the other allegations, was any conducted on a very

0:04:470:04:51

preliminary basis. The recommendation that the independent

0:04:510:04:54

investigator has made is that further investigations into the

0:04:540:04:57

culture of the organisation and the grievances raised by staff are

0:04:570:05:02

undertaken. He has also recommended that the two people who are at the

0:05:020:05:06

centre of the allegations are suspended. That is entirely in

0:05:060:05:10

accordance with the ACAS code of practice, because what you would

0:05:100:05:15

look to do is where there are allegations of intimidation, is

0:05:150:05:19

removed a potential perpetrators, so that you can really get to the

0:05:190:05:23

nuts and bolts and get this -- the staff to speak openly. One former

0:05:230:05:28

trustee, who resigned following recent events, says investigations

0:05:280:05:32

need to move more swiftly. Trustees sought legal advice and were told

0:05:320:05:37

by a leading law firm to suspend Naz Malik, pending a disciplinary

0:05:370:05:42

procedure. We agreed again not to identify the trustee. I am amazed,

0:05:420:05:46

frankly. Had this been any other organisation, things would have

0:05:460:05:50

moved swiftly and nothing is said to be open. These are public bodies

0:05:500:05:54

with public money and transparency must be there. Why haven't any

0:05:540:05:58

board members or former board members been interviewed? Century

0:05:580:06:02

large our report to the police and the Welsh Assembly government --

0:06:020:06:07

since we lost our report, nothing has happened. One Assembly Member

0:06:070:06:11

who has been contacted by former Awema staff says a police

0:06:110:06:15

investigation is now the any way to clear-up the matter. I have written

0:06:150:06:20

to the police, I have asked them to look into the allegations,

0:06:200:06:22

particularly in light of the fact that trustees have not been

0:06:220:06:26

contacted. That is remiss of the Welsh Government, who are leading

0:06:260:06:30

the ongoing investigation, and let's not forget, there have been

0:06:300:06:33

two other investigations already into this organisation. The public

0:06:330:06:39

need to have money -- confident that their money is being treated

0:06:390:06:43

probably by the Welsh Government. The Welsh Government is

0:06:430:06:45

investigating all of the allegations. In the meantime, Naz

0:06:450:06:48

Malik says it would not be appropriate for him to comment on

0:06:480:06:52

the allegations against him. The Welsh Government will update

0:06:520:06:59

Assembly Members on Monday. Last week, we revealed that Awema's

0:06:590:07:03

funders, including the last government, had suspended funding

0:07:030:07:07

pending the review, but just a job there were memories about some of

0:07:070:07:10

the other allegations last week. -- jog our memories.

0:07:100:07:15

We were using the same report written by Paul Dunn, where he

0:07:150:07:18

makes the allegations of bullying and some financial allegations,

0:07:180:07:24

financial irregularities. One of those allegations is that Naz Malik

0:07:240:07:28

used the charity money, public money, to pay off credit card debts.

0:07:280:07:34

He had already mated to that, but Paul Dunn made further -- further

0:07:340:07:38

recommendations. -- admitted that. He recommended that Naz Malik be

0:07:380:07:44

suspended while a disciplinary hearing was on going and it didn't

0:07:440:07:47

happen and Dr Rita Austin, she has today written to the Charity

0:07:470:07:51

Commission and in that letter, she absolutely slates Paul Dunn's

0:07:510:07:55

report, saying it is a shoddy piece of work, saying it is lacking in

0:07:550:07:59

evidence for many of the financial allegations. She is also very

0:08:000:08:04

critical of some of the trustees of Awema. We will be hearing from have

0:08:040:08:08

very shortly. I did speak to Paul Dunn, the author of the report,

0:08:080:08:13

which was commissioned by the trustees, before Rita Austin was

0:08:130:08:16

appointed chair, and I asked for his reaction of her criticism of

0:08:160:08:22

his work as a shoddy, unfocused and inconclusive. It is a shame she

0:08:220:08:26

doesn't speak her mind! First, you cannot judge it by its wrapper.

0:08:260:08:33

Secondly, she doesn't know what my brief was, so I am not sure why she

0:08:330:08:38

makes that comment. She also confuses two things, I think. The

0:08:380:08:42

reality is I was commissioned by one of the trustees to do a

0:08:420:08:46

sufficient investigation, to make a judgment about whether action was

0:08:460:08:51

necessary, so I was not asked to investigate in great detail all of

0:08:510:08:54

the allegations that had been made. I certainly could not have done

0:08:540:08:59

that in a couple of weeks. So you were looking to see if there was a

0:08:590:09:03

case to answer, is that the gist of it? Absolutely, and when Rita

0:09:030:09:07

Austin says I don't have any evidence, one of the things I have

0:09:070:09:11

that evidence is not only statement made by staff and statements from

0:09:110:09:14

the interviews I had with them, but I have actually got a recording

0:09:140:09:18

which is over 3.5 hours long of my interview with the chief executive,

0:09:180:09:23

in which he makes a whole series of comments and admissions. I think

0:09:230:09:27

that counts as evidence. Why hadn't she didn't have that evidence so

0:09:270:09:33

she can probably look at the foundations of your recommendations,

0:09:330:09:37

which are very serious for the future of the Malik family? They

0:09:370:09:42

are, and I am very sorry that the Awema staff, partners and people

0:09:420:09:46

who benefit from the services have been affected the way that they are,

0:09:460:09:49

and it is a shame that some of the trustees are being tried used in

0:09:490:09:55

the way that they have been. traduced. Why don't you give her

0:09:550:09:59

your evidence? Firstly, it has been alleged that there was a bit of a

0:10:000:10:02

coup and she was brought in contrary to the laws and

0:10:020:10:07

regulations that govern Awema. disputes that. She might disputed,

0:10:070:10:13

but I think it is quite clear from the information that I have that it

0:10:130:10:17

is the case. But even if you put that to one side, I was concerned

0:10:170:10:21

that there might be a whitewash, and I think my concern has been

0:10:210:10:26

borne out by what has happened so far. So for example, Rita Austin

0:10:260:10:32

says in her report, I believe, that the Chief Executive was guilty of

0:10:320:10:38

gross misconduct. But he has had a warning. I am sure if you are to

0:10:380:10:40

ask most employers and indeed most employees what happens to people

0:10:400:10:45

who are guilty of gross misconduct, after investigation and a hearing

0:10:450:10:50

it, they go down the road. We will raise that issue with Rita Austin

0:10:500:10:53

later in the programme, but in terms of why you are not handing

0:10:530:10:57

over the evidence, are you telling me that you are not doing that

0:10:570:11:05

the right thing with it? -- you do not trust her. I have been asked by

0:11:050:11:07

one sot of -- one set of trustees, who have now resigned because of

0:11:080:11:13

what is happening at Awema, to do a job and I have done that job and I

0:11:130:11:16

will and that information other, the information I have, to the

0:11:160:11:20

people who are conducting informations. -- investigations.

0:11:200:11:24

Why don't you give her a copy? hasn't asked for that. She may have

0:11:240:11:29

changed her mind but Rita Austin has told me she wants to have me

0:11:290:11:33

return all copies of documents, policies, recordings, everything to

0:11:330:11:39

her. I am not going to do it. ask you about the large government

0:11:390:11:42

review into the allegations surrounding Awema? -- Welsh

0:11:420:11:46

Government. Has anybody from the Welsh Government contacted due to

0:11:460:11:51

ask you to supply them with the evidence you say you have? Not yet,

0:11:510:11:56

hopefully they will. A has anyone from South Wales Police? Nobody

0:11:560:12:00

from any organisation. Nobody has been in touch with me apart from

0:12:000:12:06

your good self, and other in media outlets. I am grateful to you for

0:12:060:12:09

talking to us on Dragon's Eye. Paul Dunn, there.

0:12:090:12:12

Rita Austin was appointed as the Chair of Awema in December last

0:12:120:12:17

year. She served a previous term as Chair of the organisation at the

0:12:170:12:21

beginning of the last decade, leaving in 2006. No-one from Awema

0:12:210:12:23

has spoken publicly since the recent allegations came to light

0:12:230:12:27

because a Welsh Government review is taking place. The new Chair has

0:12:270:12:30

agreed to appear on Dragon's Eye on the basis that we discuss the

0:12:300:12:33

measures she's taken since her appointment to address the

0:12:330:12:36

allegations. Measures which she outlined in a statement this week

0:12:360:12:43

to the Charity Commission. Rita Austin, thank you for joining us in

0:12:430:12:48

a very cold Dragon's Eye studio, for give us do that. Let's start

0:12:480:12:54

with your comments about Paul Dunn and his report. You are savagely

0:12:540:12:57

critical of that report in your submission to the Charity

0:12:570:13:02

Commission, why is that? I think the statements I have made to the

0:13:020:13:07

Charity Commission called into question the governance that the

0:13:070:13:12

previous trustees exercised in commissioning this report. At have

0:13:120:13:17

asked, because I cannot find any offers, for a letter of appointment

0:13:170:13:21

-- I have asked. I had asked for terms of reference, details of

0:13:210:13:27

contract, even the curriculum vitae. I have not been able to find these

0:13:270:13:30

items in the office. I have asked Paul Dunn to supply a copy of them

0:13:300:13:35

and they are not there. This is not the proper way to commission a

0:13:350:13:41

report. What has happened, in effect, is that a person about whom

0:13:410:13:46

little is known to most of the trustees at the time has been

0:13:460:13:54

allowed access to very case sensitive material in Awema and I

0:13:540:13:59

don't think that is permissible without comment. I can say further,

0:13:590:14:06

in terms of these actual -- this actual report... E say on several

0:14:060:14:12

occasions in your statement that he provides no evidence to support his

0:14:120:14:15

call for the immediate suspension of Naz Malik, pending a

0:14:150:14:20

disciplinary inquiry. Yet the trustees took legal advice on Paul

0:14:200:14:24

Dunn's report and the lawyers took a different view to yours. The

0:14:240:14:28

lawyer has said that there was sufficient evidence in Paul Dunn's

0:14:290:14:34

investigation to warrant an immediate suspension and that their

0:14:340:14:38

advice was that such a suspension would be appropriate. Why did you

0:14:380:14:47

I am obliged, as I was coming in as chair again - and I was asked to

0:14:470:14:51

come in as chair because several of the Trustees at that time were

0:14:510:14:57

appalled by the lack of leadership and focus being shown, in terms of

0:14:570:15:00

allegations to which the chief executive had already responded. I

0:15:000:15:07

hope we will come back to that in a minute. Let me just deal with your..

0:15:070:15:14

I am obliged to consider the advice of solicitors. When I got into the

0:15:140:15:17

chair, we looked at the advice from solicitors and we did give it

0:15:170:15:23

consideration, due consideration. But you dismissed it in the end?

0:15:230:15:28

don't think it is fair to say that I dismissed it. You chose not to

0:15:280:15:33

follow it. I chose not to follow that aspect. That is a serious

0:15:330:15:36

decision for a chair who has just come in and is dealing with serious

0:15:360:15:42

allegations. Of course it is a serious position to take and I take

0:15:420:15:46

my duties extremely seriously, which is more than can be said for

0:15:460:15:50

the trustees previously. I take the decisions that I took in the light

0:15:500:15:56

of knowing that the outcome of suspending the chief executive, or

0:15:560:16:00

indeed anybody else, and might I say here that there is no evidence

0:16:000:16:05

ever been brought to substantiate allegations against the operations

0:16:050:16:09

director, indeed the solicitor has asked me to ask Paul Dunn to

0:16:090:16:13

provide substantiating evidence and so far he has not. We are not

0:16:130:16:17

talking about that at the moment. Let me come back to what you have

0:16:170:16:21

asked me and I will try and answer your questions. In terms of the

0:16:210:16:25

advice that I was given by the solicitor, trustees were given by

0:16:250:16:29

the solicitor, had we done as she had advised, it would have incurred

0:16:290:16:37

the charity an enormous extra expense. I could not justify that,

0:16:370:16:45

on the very strong grounds that I already had, as had the trustees, a

0:16:450:16:51

clear admission from Mr Malik as to the business over the credit card.

0:16:510:16:59

More than that, the trustees, on 18th November meeting, had exactly

0:16:590:17:03

that admission. Forgive me, but I have to push you on this. You say

0:17:030:17:07

the reason for not following the legal advice was that it would

0:17:070:17:11

engage the charity in unnecessary expense. To be honest, I find it

0:17:110:17:15

extraordinary that, when lawyers are consulted, lawyers who are

0:17:150:17:22

experts in their field and whose obligation is primarily the correct

0:17:220:17:25

operating of an organisation which handles millions of pounds of

0:17:250:17:29

public money, and when they say to you, we agree that there appears to

0:17:290:17:33

be sufficient evidence within the preliminary investigation by Paul

0:17:330:17:36

Dunn to support an allegation of gross misconduct on the part of Naz

0:17:360:17:41

Malik, according to your internal disciplinary Pollock -- policy and

0:17:410:17:45

procedure, you should consider immediate suspension, and our

0:17:450:17:48

advice is that such a suspension would be appropriate. I must

0:17:490:17:52

confess, I find it extraordinary that you chose to disregard that on

0:17:520:17:59

the basis that it would be split -- too expensive. Well, you are

0:17:590:18:02

perfectly entitled to your opinion. I have to make these judgments on

0:18:020:18:06

behalf of the charity as I see fit. And of course I take responsibility

0:18:060:18:11

for the decision. However, can I just add on that, it is my

0:18:110:18:15

understanding that the solicitor was not provided with, by the

0:18:150:18:23

trustees at that time, may I finish? Briefly, if you could,

0:18:230:18:28

because there are other points. solicitor was not provided with Mr

0:18:280:18:34

Malik was no rebuttal. There was his admission. I want to talk to

0:18:340:18:39

about that now. And I have no doubt that his such -- admission was

0:18:390:18:44

sufficient to warrant her advice. That is the admission that he used

0:18:450:18:49

an advance on expenses, the charity money, public money, to pay off his

0:18:490:18:52

credit card bill. And in your statement to the Charity Commission

0:18:520:18:56

you say that that amounts to gross misconduct. Why did you not sack

0:18:560:19:00

him? Well, you might ask the question, why are the trustees, who

0:19:010:19:05

are now complaining, did not sack him at the time? Why did you not

0:19:050:19:11

sack him? Excuse me, you ask me questions... My question is why did

0:19:110:19:16

you not sack him? I did not sack him because I felt it unnecessary

0:19:160:19:20

to move immediately to disciplinary action. But I have to say that at

0:19:200:19:23

the July AGM, in the presence of all of the trustees who are

0:19:230:19:26

currently complaining, it was properly disclosed in the minutes

0:19:260:19:31

of that July AGM that the chief executive was holding what is

0:19:310:19:37

called a cash float. You admit it is gross misconduct in this report.

0:19:370:19:41

The trustees, on 18th November, were also faced with that very same

0:19:410:19:47

allegation. In this report to the Charity Commission, you say it

0:19:470:19:51

amounts to gross misconduct. You have guidelines in AWEMA that say

0:19:510:19:54

that the normal punishment for gross misconduct would be summary

0:19:540:19:59

dismissal. Why did you disregard your own policies and procedures in

0:19:590:20:02

deciding not to dismiss the chief executive who you admit is guilty

0:20:020:20:07

of gross misconduct? You might well ask why the trustees... I am asking

0:20:070:20:12

why you did not do it. I'm sorry, Mrs Evans, I know you wish to

0:20:120:20:16

pursue your own questions but I am here to speak to the statement I

0:20:160:20:21

made to the Charity Commission. That is what we are talking about.

0:20:210:20:27

What I have in my statement to the Charity Commission is also deep

0:20:270:20:30

concerns about the governance of the trustees, who suddenly wished

0:20:300:20:35

to discuss matters that I have done when they themselves did not take

0:20:350:20:40

any action on the admitted misconduct of the chief executive.

0:20:400:20:44

You have already told me you think they are incompetent, so why when

0:20:440:20:48

you came in did you not say, I think this is gross misconduct, as

0:20:480:20:51

you said to the Charity Commission, it amounted to gross misconduct,

0:20:510:20:55

and yet you did not sack and chief executive who you said had

0:20:550:21:02

committed gross misconduct. And when the procedures and guidelines

0:21:020:21:05

of the organisation say he would normally be sacked if convicted or

0:21:050:21:10

determined to have admitted gross misconduct. I don't think I cannot

0:21:100:21:15

see you any better than I have. me ask you another question. I am

0:21:150:21:20

sorry, I will finish this answer. It was in a properly convened

0:21:200:21:25

disciplinary panel meeting of three trustees, including myself. We

0:21:250:21:32

heard not only his admission, we heard also of the fact that the

0:21:320:21:36

previous trustees had dealt with this. Why would they take an

0:21:360:21:40

instruction from you, as to admit in this report, for Mr Malik to

0:21:400:21:42

repay public money he had inappropriately taken to pay off

0:21:420:21:46

his credit card? What sort of chief executive of the charity needs to

0:21:460:21:50

be told to repay money has taken in appropriately to pay his credit

0:21:500:21:58

card? Look, he does not need to be told that. But use a...

0:21:580:22:03

heaven's sake, Mrs Evans, you either allow me to answer your

0:22:030:22:06

questions... Please answer the question, but you seem to be

0:22:060:22:10

disputing what is written here so I am trying to clarify that. I will

0:22:100:22:13

now take breath and try to answer you before you interrupt me again.

0:22:130:22:19

This admission was made at the July ATM. The trustees then took no

0:22:190:22:26

notice. This admission was made, and his rebuttal, was made to the

0:22:260:22:30

November meeting of the board. The trustees took no action. I came

0:22:300:22:37

into the chair on 16th December, and on 19th December, a Friday to

0:22:370:22:42

Monday, I took disciplinary action against him, having told with the

0:22:420:22:46

agreement of my trustees. The trustees, having listened to the

0:22:460:22:51

evidence, and all of that, having heard from the chief executives

0:22:510:22:57

that he had offered to repay that many a long time ago, that he had a

0:22:570:23:01

third at the AGM, it was properly disclosed, the trustees could have

0:23:010:23:07

instructed him then to do it -- that he had offered, and he wished

0:23:070:23:10

himself to call in the police as soon as the allegations were made

0:23:100:23:14

and the honorary officers denied it. I cannot help you any further. That

0:23:140:23:18

was my judgment. And I am really sorry that in this interview, which

0:23:180:23:24

I came to undertake to speak to my statement to the Charity Commission.

0:23:240:23:27

That is what we have been discussing. You have looked at one

0:23:270:23:31

aspect of it. I know that you have to leave it there and I am really

0:23:310:23:36

sorry that the good work that Main does is not being done.

0:23:360:23:42

Date for joining us. -- AWEMA. Up the allegations have raised

0:23:420:23:45

concern about the oversight of an organisation that spends millions

0:23:450:23:49

of public money. This is not the first time there have been

0:23:490:23:52

allegations of management misconduct.

0:23:520:23:56

There are currently two reviews into AWEMA at governmental level.

0:23:560:24:00

One is a joint review with the Wales international funding office

0:24:000:24:04

on the second is a government review. The Minister for Finance

0:24:040:24:07

told Assembly members about the progress of the latter. This raises

0:24:070:24:17

issues about the propriety and proper use of public funds. I can

0:24:170:24:21

assure you that the field work has been completed, the assessment is

0:24:210:24:25

being made a moment of the investigation and officials are

0:24:250:24:28

aiming to finalise a report in agreement with the Big Lottery Fund,

0:24:280:24:33

of course, who engaged him that investigation, during the week

0:24:330:24:36

commencing 6th February. But many of those who have made allegations

0:24:360:24:39

of financial impropriety have told us no one from the Welsh Government

0:24:390:24:44

has even spoken to them. I am concerned that the recommendation

0:24:440:24:47

originally put to the board to suspended chief executive was not

0:24:470:24:53

implemented. Clearly, if employees are coming out now and effectively

0:24:530:24:56

it is an open rebellion, that decision has to be revisited

0:24:560:24:59

because we cannot have a situation where we had such an important

0:24:590:25:04

organisation with all of its funds suspended, staff in open the vote

0:25:040:25:10

and with the work that it is doing effectively on hold. -- staff in

0:25:100:25:13

open the vote. Somebody needs to get a grip. Ministers have refused

0:25:140:25:18

to be interviewed on the programme about the oversight of AWEMA and

0:25:180:25:21

the millions that it spends. They say it would not be appropriate

0:25:210:25:26

until the review is completed. Earlier this week, Wales' top civil

0:25:260:25:30

servant told a committee of AMs that the conduct of Main should

0:25:300:25:35

have been considered high risk. Processors in recent years have

0:25:350:25:39

been fine, but I think we have to go back longer than that to answer

0:25:390:25:42

questions and to get some answers about our long-term management of

0:25:420:25:50

an organisation which, if you look at the history, we should have

0:25:500:25:54

raided as -- we should have graded as a high risk organisation.

0:25:540:25:58

submitted a list of questions to the Welsh Government. We asked for

0:25:580:26:02

a copy of the second review from 2003, which a Government spokesman

0:26:020:26:06

told us was in the public domain. We asked whether allegations that

0:26:060:26:10

the Welsh Government suspended funding into 1006 after complaints

0:26:100:26:15

from a vice chair of AWEMA trustees about procedural Erich --

0:26:150:26:18

irregularities were true. And we asked whether the Government had

0:26:180:26:25

investigated AWEMA at any other time than in 2002, 2003 and the two

0:26:250:26:29

reviews this year. A spokesman refused to answer our questions

0:26:290:26:39
0:26:390:26:48

One of the other bodies that is supposed to provide oversight of

0:26:480:26:52

charities is the sector's regulator, the Charity Commission. They told

0:26:520:26:56

us they have not decided on a course of action in relation to the

0:26:560:27:00

concerns surrounding AWEMA, they will not do so until they meet the

0:27:000:27:04

charity, and they have not arranged a date for such a meeting.

0:27:040:27:08

With me is the leader of the Welsh Conservatives in the Assembly,

0:27:080:27:13

Andrew RT Davies. Welcome. What is your view of the way the review is

0:27:130:27:17

being conducted by the Welsh government? There is a stench about

0:27:170:27:21

the whole thing. We see the permanent secretary saying they

0:27:210:27:24

have not been up to their game, have not reviewed the charity for

0:27:240:27:27

some time, or been up to the job of supervising the public money that

0:27:270:27:32

has gone in there. Ministers have failed. We have a minister and a

0:27:320:27:36

First Minister who have failed in their job to oversee this charity.

0:27:360:27:40

What we want is questions. You had the chair of the organisation in

0:27:400:27:44

here earlier who identified faults, and she did not act on them. We

0:27:440:27:47

have made chief-executive identified in a report with gross

0:27:470:27:51

negligence. We had an employment lawyer saying that in normal

0:27:510:27:55

circumstances he would have been suspended. None of the actions that

0:27:550:27:59

would normally follow have been undertaken. There is a real stench

0:27:590:28:03

about this and it needs a thorough investigation. I call into question

0:28:030:28:06

the Welsh Government's ability to be the ultimate arbitrator on this,

0:28:060:28:12

given their inaction to date. do you intend to do? My colleague

0:28:120:28:16

Darren Millar has written to South Wales Police, believing the

0:28:160:28:20

allegations are serious enough to warrant a police investigation. We

0:28:200:28:24

will be asking some searching and serious questions through the

0:28:240:28:27

Chamber and also via the Public Accounts Committee which undertook

0:28:270:28:31

an investigation this week. But above all, this highlights in

0:28:310:28:34

action at the highest level of government. This is an organisation

0:28:340:28:38

that deals with in excess of �8 million of public money. It is not

0:28:380:28:42

good enough and it builds on a series of failures across Wales

0:28:420:28:45

with public money that highlights the systemic failure within the

0:28:450:28:49

Welsh government and at the heart, the ministers must take account and

0:28:490:28:54

be responsible. We look forward to a minister appearing on this

0:28:540:28:58

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS