19/04/2012 Dragon's Eye

Should an evangelical Christian church get taxpayers' money to

build a bowling alley for the local Good evening. Concerns are being

raised in Carmarthenshire over the funding of an Evangelical Christian

organisation that plans to build an auditorium for worship and a

bowling alley using public money. The Towy Community Church has

received up to two million pounds from the Big Lottery Fund, the

Welsh Government and Carmarthenshire Council for the new

development. Here's Brian Meechan. These are tough times in the public

sector. There are cuts in services and job losses. Can mother she

Council is no exception. All the spending comes under the spotlight

-- Carmarthenshire Council. This is the office of the Towy Community

Church. It has grand plans for the future which are causing a ripple

in Carmarthenshire politics. Supporters argue it is providing

services, critics are worried about the huge sums of public money and

how it plans to spend them. Unison represents many council employees

under threat of losing their jobs or a pay cut. We do question how we

can use the money and our members are facing cuts and a threat to

jobs. We have only seen it possibly 10 or 20% of the cuts so far.

People are fearful for their jobs and angry as to the use of money.

This is a glaring example. This is the site of an Old creamery where

the church is planning to build the new facility. The development will

be home to a mix of facilities, an auditorium the church were used for

worship and other organisations can hire it. There is a food bank, debt

advice, furniture recycling and a bowling alley. Our members can be

losing jobs due to economic problems, for much of problems,

they could be going to the food bank for debt counselling. And yet

they may not have needed to go there because the money could have

been used to maintain their jobs. There are concerns among

politicians. I have tried to look at the aims and objectives of the

grant funding but those aren't clear. The lesson we are learning

from the issues are we need to ensure any public money goes out

for clear objectives and they are to live it and the government or

whoever is dispensing public money monitors it. What is this money

for? How is it being put into the funding streams and is the

organisation using this money and restricting access to facilities?

Are they being discriminate tree in their employment practices?

main groups on the cancel all supported funding going into Towy

Community Church. The leader of Plaid Cymru and the Labour group

declined to be interviewed for the programme. We made numerous

attempts to contact the councillor, the leader of the Council and the

independent group but are calls were not returned. As a member of

the People's First Group, Sian opposed the funding. I am very

concerned we are dropping funding to other well-established secular

organisations like Citizens' Advice Bureau on the pretext that these

Christian groups can do debt counselling as well. I am not sure

because evangelical churches are well-known for going after members,

they would like to recruit, this church is building an auditorium

for 600 people and it has a fraction of of those members at the

moment. What will they use the services for? There are concerns

over the Church's links to an organisation called Mercy

ministries, which has faced criticism for the way it deals a

vulnerable young women. The Church has links to other rather dubious

organisations like that and I feel uncomfortable about the whole thing.

People who believe in possessions at by demons and to treat anorexia

through exorcism, it is not good. I would not like these people taking

over social services, for instance with a sort of bizarre belief

system. No seat Mr Rees was closed down in

Australia because of the way they treated days in their care -- no

seat ministries. It stated the aim of setting up similar ministry in

Carmarthenshire. This body believes he can cure a vulnerable young

girl's problems by exorcism. They are part of the Evangelical

Alliance which is against any form of same-sex marriage and these core

values go completely against the principles of public service which

is based on equality. With up to �2 million of public money invested in

the project, it is claimed it will provide 17 jobs and vital services.

For its critics, it is too high a price to pay when jobs and services

are being cut across the country. Brian Meechan reporting. We did ask

to speak the Pastor of the Towy Community Church, but he declined

our request for an interview. We then turned to Gwainy - an

evangelical organisation that supports Churches, including the

one in this case, in their bids for public funding for community work.

At first they agreed to be interviewed but then changed their

minds. We invited the Chief Executive of Carmarthenshire

council to give us an interview, he said it wouldn't be appropriate

because of the local elections. We asked the group leaders of the

three main parties on the council, who supported the decision to fund

the project. Cllr Meryl Gravel, who also leads the council, didn't

return our calls. The leader of the Plaid Cymru and Labour groups

declined to be interviewed. As did the Local Government Minister, Carl

Sargeant. Just when I was starting to think

no one liked me, Brian agreed to sit in the chair. I am paid to be

here! You know how to make a girl feel special. We have had

developments on this tonight. have had a statement from the Welsh

government and it's important to be clear because it is an interesting

statement. It says that Towy Community Church has not received

any financial support from the Welsh governments communities

facilities and activities programme. They say it has been agreed in

principle the funding will be given to the project but crucially the

money has not yet been paid and the details have not been finalised.

That is a big development on the story. If you look at the website

of the Church, it was up there they were receiving the funding. So, it

remains to be seen what happens. Broaden this out into the wider

significance, because as the pot of public money shrinks for community

projects, are we likely to see greater competition between

organisations? I think that is the crux of the issue. We have gone

through a period of record levels of investment in health, schools

and local communities. When there was the feeling of plenty of money

to go round, projects did not compete and there was less scrutiny

and perhaps less of an issue about where money was going. Now, I think

we're seeing people asking the more questions about where money should

be given and who it should be given to and what projects. We heard from

Angela and one question she asked was in these times, is a bowling

alley a priority in terms of spending? That is the general point

but regardless of that, in any context money being given to an

evangelical organisation to run services but it does not appear

they are experienced at running, certainly not the bowling alley but

more importantly the debt counselling service, there is no

real idea of whether they have the experience to fulfil this when we

have organisations like Citizens' Advice Bureau which is short of

cash. And competition between organisations is likely to increase,

presumably as people tried to get hold of money? Yes, we heard a lot

from David Cameron about the "big society", this is David Camerons

big idea. Essentially, you roll back the state, you stop the UK

government and Welsh government and local councils providing services

at you bring in charities and local communities and allow them to run

the services. The idea being they will run in more efficiently and

better and they know the needs of the community. The problem with

that is you then have groups say why is this group getting money and

not us? The resistance if you go to an awarding body various criteria

and you are handed money based on criteria and it is objective. Once

you start getting a challenge to what organisations are running this,

you would have people like the councillor who we saw in the report

saying I do not want evangelical churches running social services

and it is not just that, many other organisations will be offering the

same questions. They say they are getting the same scrutiny as any

organisation and will follow the legal rules. Of course, in fairness

that they would defend their record and the fact they will be going out

and even though they perhaps are not in favour of gay marriage, but

does not mean they will discriminate against gay people.

Up to a hundred and fifty jobs are being lost at three Peacock's

distribution centres across south Wales. The company's new owners

described it as "a legacy of the administration process" after the

company collapsed last year. The news comes after yesterday's

unemployment figures showed a slight rise in Wales, with women

bearing the brunt of the increase. Our Business Correspondent, Nick

Servini joins us from outside the Peacock's distribution centre in

Nantgarw. Nick in light of yesterday's figures, what's the

wider context of the Peacock's announcement?

Yes, a consultation process is under way for 150 job losses at the

centre and two others in the South Wales valleys. It is a unique

situation here because it is still the fall-out of the huge corporate

collapse of Peacock's that we saw at the start of the year but it is

pretty gloomy and that was reflected in unemployment figures

yesterday. 131,000 out of work in Wales and the critical thing to say

is it has been at 130,000 or above for seven months. Historically that

is a high figure and it is the most sustained period where we have had

unemployment at that level recently. The statisticians in Newport will

say the way the figures are collated in the nations and regions

of the UK, to look at the trend that's been going on. Rather than

the one-off monthly spite in figures because they can be

volatile. On that reckoning, -- We have had seven months of high

unemployment and by any reckoning it is a gloomy assessment of what

is going on. A narrower version of our employment which is a specific

number of people claiming jobseeker's allowance went above

80,000 for the first time in over two years, a jump of 10,000 on the

quarter. It's interesting looking up a picture to look at the

political reaction because the Conservative Secretary of State and

Labour business minister were both keen to stress the positive side,

particularly an increase in the employment rates and a decrease in

the economic inactivity rate. How does this square with your picture?

To some extent they are right to point that out because we have had

significant increases in employment as well as unemployment. It does

show that there is evidence of private sector activity because we

know there isn't much recruitment in the public sector. For many

people, they may be confused because you would think if

employment is going up, our employment would come down as well.

I think the answer lies in this issue of economic inactivity, a

huge number of working age population classed as economic --

economically inactive. They do not show up on the joblessness figures.

The UK government in changes like phasing out incapacity benefit is

starting to have an impact on those large numbers of people across

Wales and in this area where I am in the South Bali's -- South Wales

Valleys and many of these people are coming on to the jobless radar,

and starting to claim jobseeker's allowance. That is what is

happening and it is the impact being felt and starting to be felt

in terms of figures. This is at least speculative but it could lead

to a scenario in future in Wales where the economy improves, the

private sector starts to take people on and yet unemployment will

remain high because there will be a relatively steady stream of people

previously classed as being economically inactive now claiming

jobseeker's allowance and showing That's interesting, will follow it

and see if it happens, but a quick thought from you before you go on

some of the hardest hit groups, young people and the position they

are in has received a lot of protect -- attention and women as

well, bearing the brunt in Wales. What is being done for them? Yes,

quite, I mean this ongoing crisis of youth unemployment, the figures

have moved steadily from a 5th of 16-24 year-olds not in full-time

education can are looking for work to close-up -- closer to a quarter

of that and Wales is just about the UK average. A lot of political

effort going into tried to deal with that issue, providing

incentives for sorts of companies to take on the young people, give

them a chance, provide work experience and get them on the jobs

ladder, and as you mention, female unemployment as well, a trend

emerging but women are being hit harder than men at the moment when

it comes to unemployment. You are attracting a lot of attention, I

don't know if those are beats of support. Thank you Nick Servini.

It is a tense time for local authorities. Their budgets are

being cut, demands for their services are growing and there's an

election campaign underway. Arwyn Jones takes a look at the issues

ahead of the local elections on May 3rd.

It is a fairly familiar scene, especially with elections looming,

these protestors in Aberystwyth are opposed to moving this day care

centre for the elderly, saying up to 90 people can use it, so why is

it being moved? Well, the council want to develop on the land.

It's a tricky one for any council. On the one hand there is a chance

of a new supermarket which would bring in new jobs as well as more

shoppers into the area, and it would mean moving this day care

centre, used by dozens of the most vulnerable people in society.

Ceredigion council and proposing to remove the service altogether but

they will move the day-care centre to another location -- are not

proposing. Campaigners said the alternative doesn't match up to

what they have now. So on Tuesday they were invited to have a look at

what is being offered. It is not the whole of this building. That

will house a new library. The new day-care centre will be in the

basement. We have been trying since December to get permission to look

at it, and it will be interesting what we will see, because people

who have seen it have complained about the low ceilings, the

dumbness, the humidity, the lack of space, it is only about one-quarter

of the size of the old days centre. -- the dampness. Of course, the

council doesn't have to provide services like these, it is not

legally obliged to do so. Having now seen the new centre, what was

the verdict? They have done their best, but I still don't think it's

good enough. It is too small, it is too claustrophobic, it is too dark,

even on a bright day like this with the lights on. And it's just not

good enough for our old people. asked candidates from all political

parties in Ceredigion on as well as the independent members of the

council's cabinet to answer questions about the day-care centre.

All but two were unwilling or unable to be interviewed, and the

council asked us not to run this story before the election. They did

tell us that they had listened to concerns and made changes to

minimise the impact on services. Other candidates, however, were

more keen to talk. Every councillor -- every councillors having to deal

with making savings. We are in hard times, there is no escaping that,

we must be honest, but it is how you make those savings and target

them, and I think in this instance, we have to ask ourselves if they

had been targeted correctly, are there other things that could have

been done, and the whole issue of development as well, it comes back

with the idea of looking at the plans. That type of facility is

needed because, I think, if we have a policy of early intervention to

help the older generation to stay as independent as possible, that is

the type of thing that the facilities such as a day centre,

where there it may be, does. It gives them a chance to socialise --

where every maybe. They can have a hot meal and have their laundry

seen to and other personal things if that is what they need.

money councils have is being squeezed, so it is possible

services like these may well feel the band in other parts of Wales.

think in some cases we may be getting to that situation currently.

I know local austerities are working very hard to work within

the budget constraints that they face, and they have made

significant efforts to prevent front line services being cut. But

they are also trying to redesign services as well, so it is not

simply a question of making efficiencies, but also finding new

ways of delivering services which may not cost any more. They may

even cost less, but still be able to provide a service which provides

the outcome local-authority is want to meet. -- Local authorities.

Whoever is in charge of the council's after elections, tough

decisions will be made, but who will they be, at the moment a third

of councils are run by Independent Councillors with Labour having the

highest number of councillors around Wales, 27 percent, but they

are followed not by other parties but by the Independent Councillors,

with 22 per cent of the total. There are a fair bit that -- ahead

of other parties at the moment and in Wales we have a higher

proportion of independent members and other parts of the UK, but is

that about to change? I think historically a lot of Conservatives

were minded to fight these local elections as Independent

Councillors, given the party's historic low standing in Wales.

Increasingly of course, that is changing. At the last local

elections in 2008, the Conservatives fielded a record

number of candidates in such areas as Powys, Pembrokeshire, which were

historically dominated by independent candidates, so there is

a gradual shift of those independent Conservatives being

minded to stand as independents increasingly standing on the

official party ticket. By their very nature can select -- elections

deal with the most local of issues, and there is no doubt difficult

decisions are being made. We will have to wait another two weeks to

find out who will make them. Arwyn Jones reporting. Earlier I

spoke to Professor Roger Scully from the Wales government Centre at

Cardiff University and asked him how the local election campaign was

just standing up. -- Wales Governance Centre. At the moment it

is looking like a normal election. We are seeing the party election

broadcasts and to some extent seeing Billy fitting and boards and

posters, but it is all at a much lower degree of intensity than a

general election or National Assembly election. The one of her

thing we are seeing, as one generally ceasing campaigns these

days, is that the parties have rather few activists on the ground

-- one generally seizing campaigns. Fewer people canvassing and

increasingly looking to compensate to some degree for this through

things like social media, use of the Web and so on and so forth.

Let's look at the individual parties, starting with Labour, they

had a real thumping in 2008 and will hope to gain ground,

presumably. Yes, it will be a big disappointment for Labour not to

make major improvements on their showing in 2008. 2008 was more or

less than Nadia of their fortunes in Wales, -- the Nadya. They are

doing much better in the polls in Wales and England at the moment,

and it would be a major surprise if they don't gain ground in terms of

councillors they have and also possibly take control of a number

of additional councils. And of course Labour hoping to make the

most, in some areas at least, of what is an unpopular UK coalition

government, which brings us to the fortunes of the Lib Dems and the

Conservatives, who may well fear a backlash. Yes, to some extent. We

have said that with the Lib Dems, and you see the contrast in the way

back campaigns are being fought. Labour launched a campaign about

sending a message to the London government, capitalising on the

national situation. The Liberal Democrats in particular are looking

to play that down and their candidates are looking at local

records, Local profiles, and implicitly saying, you might not

like the UK government all be happy with Nick Clegg, but you know me,

what I am like, trying to run on their local profile and local

records. The Conservatives' national poll rating is how it --

is holding up better than the Lib Dems but at the moment there has

been a difficult period for the Conservative Party and some extent

we would also expect to see the same from the Conservatives,

running more on local profiles rather than making this a

referendum on the government in London. And what about Plaid Cymru?

They go into this with a recently elected new leader? Commentators

will see this as the first vote on Leanne Wood, which will possibly be

unfair as she has only been there for a few weeks, but coming on the

back of pretty good performances in 2000 and date and a disappointing

Assembly election last year, -- 2008, I am sure Plaid Cymru can

hold most of the ground they won in 2008 and will be satisfied with

that. If they could win pretty much all the seats they won last time

and maybe make some gains, they would be delighted with that. I

would be surprised if their expectations were anywhere near

that tide. Just expand little on your thoughts about local versus

national issues, which you already referred to in terms of how the

parties of framing the debate. What dominates in elections like these?

It is a mixture of the two. It is undoubtedly demonstrated very

easily that when a party in government, particularly in London,

is unpopular, its local election candidates have a much harder time

winning. That is a very clear, consistent relationship going back

many years and decades. At the same time, it is not always impossible

for a candidate from an unpopular party at the national level to

still do well locally, and what one has to do normally is downplay

national issues, very much play of the local dimension, play up on

their personal records -- play at the local dimension, and try as

much as possible to avoid people making the election a referendum on

the government in London. OK, Roger Scully, thank you.

Let's talk about organ donation. The Welsh Government has a plan to

move to an opt-out system. The Law Society has called for greater

clarity in the proposed legislation. One of the points discussed in the

Dragon's Eye special programme on the subject last year -- in the

Dragon's Eye special programme. Our political Correspondent Tomos

Livingstone is here to tell us more. What has the Law Society said?

the moment if you want to leave your organs of your debt to carry

an organ donor card but there was government wants to look at

changing that system so effectively everyone's organs would be

available unless they opt out, but at the moment, a person's relatives

especially her -- effectively have a veto over all the 9th -- organ

donation after death even if they carry a donor card. What would

happen to that veto and this new system, for instance if someone

died having not opted out of the organ donation system but their

relatives said, I am certain she or he did not want their organs

donated? Who decides in that situation what the deceased

person's wishes really work? Now the Law Society responding to the

Welsh Government consultation raised concerns about this, saying

"the extent of the family's role is not certain ." They say it needs to

be cleared up before legislation is passed. What has the Welsh

Government's response been? Health Minister Lesley Griffiths

says she can't envisage a situation where someone's organs would be

taken without the consent of their relatives, but the Welsh

Government's White Paper talks about reducing the burden on the

deceased's relatives, of making a difficult decision at that what is

already a very difficult time. The Welsh Government's and research

suggests concerns about the family issues are the number one concern

the public has about this proposed change in the law. The problem for

Welsh ministers is that public support or otherwise for this

policy really seems to depend on the way this family question is

answered. So we will wait to see what happens there, but they

published yesterday the results of the consultation process as a whole.

What are the things of interest were in there? A range of views,

such as questions of religious and philosophical grounds, should the

state have control over people's bodies, but more specific concerns,

cross-border concerns, people perhaps to live over the border in

England but are registered with a Welsh GP. That was a concern raised

by the price of Dean MP Mark harbour. Others have questions such

as has Wales got enough intensive care beds. -- Forest of Dean MP

Mark Harper. The other thing is that there have been hundreds and