31/05/2012 Dragon's Eye


31/05/2012

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Could Welsh universities be damaged by the UK Government's immigration

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Good evening. The Education Minister, Leighton Andrews, says

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he's "very concerned" that the ability of Welsh universities to

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attract international students will be damaged by the UK Government's

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immigration policy. Nearly 70 leaders from the university sector,

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including many from Wales have written to the Prime Minister

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warning that changes to student visas will discourage applicants

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and deprive the economy of billions of pounds a year. The UK Government

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says genuine students won't be affected. Here's Brian Meechan.

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Welsh universities have become increasingly competitive on the

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world stage in trying to attract international students and

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academics. One in 10 of the student population here at Cardiff

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University come from abroad. About a quarter of all those in Wales

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study at this institution and this is one of the universities in the

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country that is worried by the UK Government's policy. To be a world-

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class university, we need to have students from all over the world.

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If we lose those students, there is a risk that our reputation will

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fall. There is a risk it will damage the local economy. Figures

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released last week show that net migration into the UK is running at

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about 250,000 people annually. That is more than the 100,000 people

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that the UK Government wants. The main reason people come here is to

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study. Cardiff University joined Bangor, Aberystwyth and Cardiff

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Metropolitan University to raise concerns that the UK Government's

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attempt to cut -- cap levels. Chancellors and cheers of

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universities boards Express our view -- is clearly to the

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government. When the policy of controlling population in and out

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of the UK affects our international market, and even in a relatively

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small university like Bangor, the overseas student population outside

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the European Union is about 1,500 and that is around �40 million for

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the er the city. The Education Minister has said he is worried

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about the government plans. higher education institutions have

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recruited overseas. A lot of them are looking to do it in partnership

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with further education colleges. So we are concerned about the

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financial impact and the reputation this could have on Wales. Foreign

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students -- the UK Government is determined to stop the abuse of the

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visa system. One senior Welsh Conservatives has rejected claims

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the crackdown on immigration could harm universities. The Government

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is saying you should have a high level of English. That is common

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sense. When I was on the Home Affairs Select Committee, we looked

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into bogus students coming here and I understand people from foreign

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countries want to do that. I am not blaming anybody but it is an abuse

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of the system which has to be stopped. The government has also

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said its policy will not stop genuine students from coming to the

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UK but others warned international students could go elsewhere.

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Critics argue that the Government's immigration policy risked driving

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international students towards our competitors in Australia, Canada

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and Germany and the USA. They argue that risk would make universities

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in Wales less high profile. reality is, we have a global market

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for students. It is destined to grow enormously and other countries

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are seeing the advantage of this new market so Australia, which had

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an immigration policy similar to the one we're practising, has

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decided to go away from it. We seem to want to close the hot. We want

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the best and brightest from China to come here and steady but they

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can always speak flawless English. What the government is trying to do

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is to weed out those who can't even speak English and to claim there

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are studying some sort of degree over here. That is just common

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sense. Recent visa rule changes have increased restrictions. Some

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want the government to go further but others saw one of the damage to

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a university's international standing. With the billions of

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pounds overseas students bring into the country, it seems ministers

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will have to work harder to convince the education sector that

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they are striking the right balance. I'm joined now by Bela Arora from

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the University of Wales, Newport and Alp Mehmet from Migration Watch.

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The Immigration Minister has sought to RIAS -- reassure the university

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sector seeing genuine students will still be admitted. Tu accept those

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reassurances? Hit only does partly to reassure the higher education

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institutions. -- it only. We need to be thinking about what kind of

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signal this sense to other countries and to prospective

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students. They are the ones who we need to be concerned about. We

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pride ourselves on being welcoming as well as offering a high Caliber

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of dedication and surely that should be a priority. Is that an

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important point? That this is a competitive market and UK

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universities need to sell themselves to international

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students. I can understand why people are concerned. But I don't

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see the government has done anything to dissuade good students

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from coming to this country. In fact, the Higher Education survey

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today published in the Times suggested that the overall numbers

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for 2012 and 2013 had gone up by an average of nine by 5%. Having spent

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a lot of my professional career overseas encouraging and selecting

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students to come to this country, I see no problem with what is going

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on. They are attracted by quality and value for money. Sometimes,

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universities and those who run them cry wolf too readily because what

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they say in rubbishing our policies gets played back and the image

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created is that we're not welcoming and that just isn't true. Bela

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Arora, they have been examples of abuses of the system. Those need

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addressing. Yes. But we need to remember that that is a minority

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and so why do we need blanket restrictions that have far reaching

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consequences? I was to take issue with the statistics because even

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though they have been increases in some areas, we need to be aware of

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the countries and the origins of the students. For example, Chinese

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students are not affected by a lot of these debates partly because

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they are less cost sensitive and they are more ranking sensitive. A

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lot of students who are coming to Welsh Universities come from India

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and Nigeria, where there are significant indications and even

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during the process of these debates over the past year, we have seen a

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decline in the number of students from both areas. What about this

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suggestion that the sector came up with this week that students should

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be treated as visitors rather than as permanent? They are not visitors.

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They are here for all the rear and the international definition of

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what constitutes immigration is someone who is here for longer than

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one year. This is not something new. It was observed by governments

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before this one. The point about the Chinese and the Indians,

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there's nothing different that applies to the Chinese that does

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not to the Indian perspective students and vice versa. In 2008,

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there was a new system and in the first year alone, there was a 30 %

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increase in the number of students coming here particularly from

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countries like India. The Public Accounts Committee chaired by a

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member MP came up with a figure recently that in that first year

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alone, something like 50,000 students came here who have no

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intention of studying. It is right that we should tighten the rules

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and ensure that only the genuine students come here for a very

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welcome and always have been. you both for taking part in the

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programme. Downing Street says the Prime

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Minister will not be referring Jeremy Hunt to his independent

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adviser on the ministerial code. The Culture Secretary gave evidence

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to the Leveson Inquiry into press standards today and Downing Street

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says David Cameron believes Mr Hunt acted properly when he was

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assessing News Corporation's bid to take over BSkyB. Earlier in the

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week, Lord Leveson gave some insight into his thoughts on

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possible reform of press regulation in conversation with Tony Blair.

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The other side of the freedom of speech argument was presented with

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force by the UK Education Secretary, Michael Gove. Tomos Livingstone

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looks at how we got here and where we go next.

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It is a sensational attack. The Prime Minister turns the tables on

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the tabloids, accusing the attack dogs of acting like feral beasts.

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I'm going to turn it says something which few people in public life can

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say. A vast aspect of our jobs today, outside of the really major

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decisions, as they give anything else, is coping with the media. Its

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sheer scale, wait and hyperactivity. At point, it literally overwhelms.

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But it sold news. Tony Blair gave that speech five years ago. The

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former prime minister was back this week giving evidence to the Leveson

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Inquiry. His views on the media have not changed much. But the

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political context certainly has. There are a lot of people in

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journalism and in the media who, if the framework within which they are

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operating is different, it will also give them the freedom to do

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their job properly. The so how did we get here, as luck phone hacking

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by journalists at the News of the World became public knowledge in

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2009. But it was the revelation that phones belonging to the murder

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victim, Milly Dowler, that pushed the story on the page 1. I want

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everything and I want everyone to be clear. Everything that happened

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is going to be investigated. The witnesses will be questioned by H-

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reg under oath. No stone will be left unturned. David Cameron

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appointed Lord Leveson to look at the ethics of the media. The police

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are still investigating two. They that sue police inquiries. They are

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looking up from hacking and payments to public officials. As

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with all good stories, there's more. News Corporation, the parent

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company of the News of the world's, eventually gave up its bid to take

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total control of the broadcaster BSkyB. But the takeover needed to

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go ahead former Cabinet minister acting in a legal rather than a

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little capacity. David Cameron took the job of the Vince Cable after he

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suggested he had already made up his mind. The job went instead to

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Jeremy Hunt. It has emerged since that he and his team were in close

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call -- conversation with News Corporation. You set aside any

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views that you have and you decide objectively on the basis of media

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plurality and not on the policy considerations that had been my

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preoccupation to that point. Lord Justice Leveson has had his work

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cut out. At times, he must feel as if he's not just dealing with feral

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beasts that Frankenstein's monster. So what will the headline writers

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have to say when the report is finally published quite like there

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are some hints already. Lord Leveson has said he is considering

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a new regulator to advise papers on whether to publish sensational

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stories before the presses start to roll. The final decisions on any

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new regulations live with the politicians. Some changes are

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likely but will they be toast dropping staff? Even politicians

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don't want the press turned into a pool. -- Pool.

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Joining me now is Ian Hargreaves, professor of journalism at Cardiff

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University, the political commentator, Rod Richards, and from

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our Swansea studio, Spencer Feeney, the editor of the South Wales

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Evening Post. There was a fascinating exchange between Lord

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Leveson and Michael Gove earlier in the week us where Michael Gove was

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defending freedom of speech and suggesting that some abuses were a

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price worth paying up. Lord Leveson challenge his assertions. They

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exchange sums up the argument. -- their exchange. He did a bit cross

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-- he got a bit cross and said he did not need anybody telling him

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that freedom of speech was important. But he has made it clear

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that he is looking for a balanced outcome which both get its

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independence of a new regulatory system, independence from

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politicians and the state, and independence from the people who

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own the news media. That is a position that we have never managed

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to get to in this country. The other thing I've heard him say over

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and over again is that, I am not going to be afoot nut in somebody

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else's book. So he recognises that this is the best opportunity that

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there has been in the entire history of the news media to do

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something different. He knows he can only recommend and I am sure he

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is fearful that his work will end I wonder what your take on where

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the balance should be struck lies? You have seen it from every angle.

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You have been a journalist and politician and the subject of

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tabloid attention. I think one of the problems Lord Leveson has his

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defining public interest as opposed to what interests the public. One

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of the interesting things Ken Clarke said is that much of what

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the public are concerned about are already criminal offences, bribery,

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hacking. I think the biggest problem that Lord Leveson is going

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to have... I accept the argument we must have some sort of regulatory

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body. Michael Gove says, leave things as they are. You must have

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some form of regulatory body that does not have a politician anywhere

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near it and has distanced from editors. Kenneth Clarke had

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interesting things to say about journalists who may commit a

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criminal offence in the public interest. Already the Director of

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Public Prosecutions does not prosecute a journalist for that

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offence. Lord Leveson's main problem is going to be with the

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pressure that the media can exert on politicians and ministers and

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Vince Cable in his evidence said that he had a source who had told

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him that News International said that if Vince Cable did not play

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the game as far back as they were concerned with the bid, his party

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would be done over. That is the kind of threat that Lord Leveson

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really has to address. How he does it is another matter. Let us bring

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in Spencer Feeney. I know it back in a previous life you work for the

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existing regulatory body, the Press Complaints Commission. From that

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perspective as well as your perspective as a practising

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journalist, what are your thoughts about how you create an effective

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regulatory body that at the same time allows enough freedom for the

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press to actually do their job of scrutinising be privileged and

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powerful? I think the Press Complaints Commission itself, we

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should not assume it has utterly failed. I think it failed in

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regards to dealing with phone hacking but so did the Metropolitan

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Police and so did the Crown Prosecution Service. If we want to

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scrap the PCC because of that failure, logically, we should talk

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about scrapping the net and the CPS which naturally nobody is. --

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scrapping the Met. I think the PCC does a good job in swiftly

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resolving complaints from the ordinary reader. Whatever replaces

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it should maintain that part of its service. On top of that, however,

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there will need to be some form of ombudsmen who has the power and

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resources to investigate serious misconduct and I think to impose

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tougher penalties than the PCC has been able to. That is an

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interesting point. In his conversation with Tony Blair, Lord

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Leveson talked about serious financial sections that this

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regulatory body would be able to impose -- financial sanctions. Is

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that something you would feel comfortable with? I would be very

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cautious about serious financial sanctions. But I would not be

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cautious about the principle of applying some legal or statutory

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leverage around the powers that a revamped regulatory body has. There

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is a way of doing that which does not get you into over regulating

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the press. I think it is also the case that the press is asking for

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an is right to be asking for a stronger public interest defences

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to be written into a number of pieces of legislation where it is

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currently lacking. The press needs the right legal framework right

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across the board and it needs the right kind of regulator, a

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regulator that the public have confidence own. The problem with

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the PCC is that confidence has been lost. However unfairly, we can

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debate, but it has gone. It has to be reconstructed. It is a hell of a

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challenge for Lord Leveson. I do not agree with the idea of

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financial sanctions. There is a world of difference... It depends

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of the means of the offender. The Evening Post is not going to be the

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same category of financial sections as the media empire. I think the

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sanctions or the remedy has to be some form of punishment or sanction

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that has some opprobrium attached to it. In the same way that a

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doctor being struck off the register... It is bad enough that

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he loses his job but there is opprobrium attached to it. Let me

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ask Spencer Feeney your thoughts on the possibility of financial

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sanctions. I think Lord Leveson may look at that. My theory is that

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inevitably it involves suppliers and that would mean the new system

:23:48.:23:51.

would be more bureaucratic and certainly more costly than the

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system we are looking to replace. Gentlemen, thank you very much.

:23:57.:24:00.

The Office of Fair Trading says it is planning to refer the car

:24:00.:24:03.

insurance industry to the Competition Commission. It says the

:24:03.:24:06.

practice of insurance companies getting referral fees from car-hire

:24:06.:24:10.

firms and repair garages is inflating premiums. The decision

:24:10.:24:16.

could have a big impact on Cardiff- based Admiral Insurance, Britain's

:24:16.:24:21.

second-biggest insurance provider. Referral fees make up a bigger part

:24:21.:24:25.

of its profits. Earlier I spoke to its chief operating officer. I

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asked him for his thoughts on something we talked about in last

:24:29.:24:34.

week's programme, the creation of an enterprise zone target in the

:24:34.:24:40.

financial sector in Cardiff. What lessons have they learnt setting up

:24:41.:24:47.

in the capital? We came to Wales in the early 90s and there were some

:24:47.:24:50.

things that make a real difference. We wear a brand new company and

:24:50.:24:55.

could have gone anywhere. The reason we chose South Wales was

:24:55.:24:59.

transport links to London, partly a number of people in Wales did a

:24:59.:25:05.

brilliant job of selling Wales to us and partly because it is a nice

:25:05.:25:10.

place to live. We have to take the whole management team and we all

:25:10.:25:14.

had to come to South Wales. The fact it is a lovely place to live

:25:14.:25:18.

is also an important factor. terms of the lessons you could

:25:18.:25:23.

apply from that experience to the discussions about how best to tempt

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other big financial players to a financial sector, a mini Canary

:25:28.:25:34.

Wharf in Cardiff, what would you say? I would say it is partly about

:25:34.:25:37.

sales and marketing. The product that is Cardiff is a brilliant

:25:37.:25:42.

product. There is so much going for it in terms of culture and shopping

:25:42.:25:46.

and sport. And education facilities and everything that is interesting

:25:46.:25:49.

for people who have to make a decision about where to live often

:25:49.:25:53.

for the rest of their lives. The proximity to London and Heathrow.

:25:53.:25:58.

These are valuable assets. The quality of the workforce. The fact

:25:58.:26:05.

there are more financial graduates per capita in Cardiff than almost

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any city in the UK. You have got to get the story out there to the

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people in London who are making choices about where they are going

:26:12.:26:18.

to locate in future. Culturally, Admiral Insurance is an innovative

:26:18.:26:23.

business. It has a series of firsts to its name. The first insurance

:26:23.:26:27.

company to have a website, for example. You also have a profit-

:26:28.:26:31.

sharing system for staff. You have maintain that as you have grown

:26:31.:26:37.

into a very big company. How do you do that, get big at while at the

:26:37.:26:42.

same time maintaining the small- company dynamism? I will start with

:26:42.:26:46.

another first. We came first in the great places to work for

:26:46.:26:50.

competition which is great. We are really proud of that. It is

:26:50.:26:54.

testimony to the efforts of all of the staff. One of the really big

:26:54.:26:59.

challenges of growing from a start- up in the early Nineties to a

:26:59.:27:03.

multi- site operation. We have sides in Swansea and Newport now as

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well. How do you maintain the small company to be fun, enjoyable and

:27:09.:27:14.

involving? Fortunately, over the years, we have been able to do that.

:27:14.:27:18.

We have had to work at making people enjoying what they do and

:27:18.:27:22.

feel a sense of belonging. Partly it is about sharing the rewards.

:27:22.:27:29.

All of our staff get a minimum of �3,000 of shares a year. The fact

:27:29.:27:34.

they are part of the success I think is really important.

:27:34.:27:38.

there clouds on the horizon for Admiral Insurance given the

:27:38.:27:41.

announcements today that it is thinking about referring the entire

:27:41.:27:44.

car insurance market to the Competition Commission because it

:27:44.:27:50.

says referral fees are artificially boosting premiums for customers?

:27:50.:27:55.

Admiral Insurance relies more on referral fees than its rivals. Is

:27:55.:27:59.

your business model under threat? Absolutely not. We welcome the

:28:00.:28:04.

changes that are going to take place both on car hire which is the

:28:04.:28:08.

current thing that the OFT had been focused on and on legal referrals.

:28:08.:28:14.

It is a mad dysfunctional system that inflates the cost. We pay out

:28:14.:28:18.

a lot more in claims because of this this functionality than we

:28:18.:28:25.

received in referral fees. If you get the system working properly, at

:28:25.:28:30.

the end of the day, we are very happy. It is a little bit of a

:28:30.:28:34.

misconception that we rely on that business more than others. You are

:28:34.:28:37.

confident that this would not make you more vulnerable than your

:28:37.:28:43.

rivals? I notice your share price has taken a knock today. Or the

:28:43.:28:49.

insurer has received this sort of income. -- all of the Insurers. It

:28:49.:28:56.

is a bit of a misconception. The share price has only moved a little.

:28:56.:29:00.

Are you able to put a figure on how much of your profits are down to

:29:00.:29:07.

referral fees at the moment? make about �5 per policy holder per

:29:07.:29:12.

year on the car referral fees. On the other side of the equation, we

:29:12.:29:18.

pay more out in inflated car hire costs on our own claims. As I say,

:29:18.:29:22.

Join Felicity Evans as she takes a fresh look at politics through the Dragon's Eye.

In this edition, Dragon's Eye looks at fears that the UK government's crackdown on immigration could damage Welsh universities. Plus the latest from the Leveson inquiry into media ethics.


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