Pennod 5 Hacio

-Subtitles

-Subtitles

-

-Subtitles

-Welcome to Hacio.

-On the show tonight...

-..with migrants fleeing to Europe...

-..I've met two refugees

-who have settled in Cardiff.

-Living in Eritrea was terrible.

-I was a soldier and they tried

-to imprison me when I deserted.

-Have our opinions

-on Muslims changed...

-..since

-the Islamist attacks on Paris?

-Everyone sees me

-as chatty, fun-loving Reem.

-I'm a person first and foremost

-to my friends, not a Muslim.

-Catrin discusses

-the Syrian bombing raids.

-There's no peace plan in place.

-We're just seeding

-more trouble for the future.

-We start with UKIP.

-In the May General Election...

-..they increased their share

-of the vote in Wales by 11%.

-The upcoming Assembly election...

-..is likely to win them

-their first seat in Cardiff Bay.

-Catrin has shadowed two young UKIP

-activists over a couple of months.

-UKIP or the UK Independence Party.

-For better or worse, they are

-never far from the headlines.

-They have faced various allegations

-from racism to homophobia.

-Despite that, their popularity has

-grown massively in recent years.

-They won nearly four million votes

-in the recent General Election.

-They could win as many as nine seats

-in next year's Assembly elections.

-A Welsh manifesto

-is already on the drawing board...

-..covering all kinds of issues.

-But their main message remains

-to get the UK out of the EU.

-Why is this party attracting

-more and more Welsh people?

-Over the last couple of weeks...

-..I've been shadowing two

-young UKIP members to find out.

-The first

-is Mark Norton from Llanelli.

-He joined UKIP because he wants

-Britain out of the European Union.

-I have a scarf

-with the UKIP colours.

-He's 19 and studies International

-Politics at Aberystwyth.

-He may live in Wales

-but he sees himself as British.

-Do you discuss politics

-in Pantycelyn?

-Yes, sometimes.

-What reaction do you get?

-They don't know

-how to react to someone like me...

-..being a member of that party.

-Sometimes it's name calling.

-"Why do you hate black people?"

-They swear and accuse me

-of not being a proper Welshman.

-He's chairman of Youth Independence

-for Mid and West Wales...

-..a branch of young Ukippers.

-Is there a chance

-in twenty years' time...

-..you'll look back...

-..and think,

-"What was I doing with that party?"

-No! They share my beliefs.

-That's why I joined them.

-Down the road in Cardiff...

-..UKIP has a stand in the Students

-Union fair at the university.

-Another Welsh speaker will be there.

-I'm going to meet him.

-Llyr Powell is 20

-and comes from Neath.

-He's been an UKIP member

-since the start of 2014.

-Next year, he'll stand as an UKIP

-candidate in the Assembly elections.

-UKIP is my party.

-It's what I say and what I mean.

-I'm so happy now.

-They're here to discuss the Welsh

-manifesto and attract new members.

-Our message is that we're here.

-We're here in Wales

-and we're not going away.

-He accepts the party

-does not appeal to all.

-It wasn't long before someone called

-by contesting the UKIP claim...

-..that immigration

-damages the British economy.

-You make scapegoats of these people

-when the damage is done by banks.

-You can't deny it because

-banging on about immigration...

-..is the whole appeal of UKIP.

-It's racist.

-Llyr denies

-that he or his party are racist.

-He sees this as a lack

-of understanding of their policies.

-I'm not saying close the borders

-and build ten foot walls.

-UKIP isn't saying that either.

-People need to know that.

-A couple of weeks later,

-I was back on the road.

-Mark was excited because Nigel

-Farage was at The Liberty Stadium.

-He was there to support the British

-drive to leave the European Union.

-Llyr was already there helping set

-things up working for UKIP Cymru.

-Hi, Mark, alright?

-Hi, Mark, alright?

-

-I'm well, thanks.

-I like your coat.

-Before Farage made his speech,

-there was a chance for Mark...

-..to suggest a question for

-his leader to answer afterwards.

-My question is whether

-it should be compulsory...

-..for candidates of

-the Welsh Assembly to learn Welsh?

-Do you think that?

-Do you think that?

-

-Yes, I do.

-And off he and Llyr went

-to listen to Farage.

-That means

-free open access to Britain...

-..our health service

-and our education system.

-Mark seemed to enjoy the speech.

-Unfortunately, they didn't

-ask his question about Welsh.

-Once again, not everyone was happy

-with Mr Farage's presence in town.

-The UKIP policy on immigration

-was the main objection again.

-The culture of Wales

-built by immigrants.

-If this was an anti-immigrant party

-I would agree.

-It's just a limited immigrant party.

-I admire your effort.

-Oldham in north west England.

-Last week, I met up with Llyr,

-who was part of UKIP's campaign...

-..for the Oldham West and Royton

-by-election.

-Rumours abounded of an UKIP shock in

-a seat held by Labour for 50 years.

-We're out here talking to people.

-The attacks in Paris

-took place during this campaign.

-Llyr felt that signalled a need

-for more scrutiny of immigrants.

-We need to know who's coming. We

-need to check for criminal records.

-The security forces knew them

-but couldn't act.

-As the polling stations closed,

-I caught up with Llyr in a pub.

-The Railway, Royton, was a second

-home for UKIP during the campaign.

-After giving up his job at a leisure

-centre to work full time for UKIP...

-..Llyr

-is a rising star in the party.

-I come up to Oldham and Nigel

-walks in and pats me on the back.

-Him speaking to me is surreal.

-Although he's still only 20,

-Llyr says he's given up...

-..a lot of his time and money

-to UKIP since joining.

-He says it's all worth it.

-UKIP has this cheesy slogan -

-Believe in Britain.

-It is cheesy and you wonder

-if it's just a catchphrase.

-But it sums us up.

-Then it was time

-for the polling booths to close.

-It wasn't long before the Ukippers

-realized things weren't that good.

-Just after 1.00am, it was announced

-that Labour had held the seat...

-..with a majority

-of almost 11,000 votes.

-We were hoping for a higher turnout.

-The Ukippers haven't come out.

-Perhaps the weather

-wasn't on our side.

-The disappointment was clear

-on the young Ukipper's face.

-But with Llyr standing in the

-Assembly elections in five months...

-..the setback in Oldham

-wasn't going to hold him back.

-I need better shoes, firstly.

-The blisters

-are like war wounds. I like them.

-I know what I agree with.

-We need something different

-and someone has to step up.

-If no-one else will, I will.

-Join us after the break...

-..to see if the attacks in Paris has

-changed our attitude to refugees.

-.

-Subtitles

-Subtitles

-

-Subtitles

-Welcome back.

-As the UK starts to bomb

-the Islamic State in Syria...

-..many predict an increase

-in refugees fleeing to Europe.

-I've been to meet two young refugees

-who've made a home in Cardiff.

-Over the summer, these are the

-images that dominated headlines.

-Hundreds of thousands of refugees

-fleeing to Europe.

-Most refugees coming to the UK

-go to London first.

-I've come here to meet Ffion Evans.

-She works for the Migrant

-and Refugee Communities Forum.

-Hi, how are you?

-The charity supports communities,

-refugees and migrants across London.

-I think it's important

-to remember...

-..that they don't come here

-because they want to.

-They come here because their country

-is at war and is in crisis.

-I don't think they're expecting

-the promised land...

-..in the way we talk about it.

-They're coming

-because they want to be safe.

-She feels that the press's attitude

-to refugees is narrow.

-She feels that what's in the papers

-and on the news...

-..has made us forget

-that refugees are people.

-Working with young people

-in particular...

-..makes you realize that labelling

-can lead to dehumanization.

-It's important to remember

-that we're all people.

-It's so important to humanize

-refugees all the time.

-After reaching London...

-..those granted asylum are sent

-to different parts of the UK.

-Over the last year, the number of

-refugees in Wales has risen by 20%.

-It's now over 2,000 people.

-Almost half of them

-live here in Cardiff.

-The Oasis centre in the capital

-offers help to refugees...

-..and assists in integrating them

-into the community.

-Bahlibi has been in Cardiff

-for seven months.

-He fled eastern Africa.

-Living in Eritrea was terrible.

-I was a soldier and they tried

-to imprison me when I deserted.

-When I found out my mother was in

-prison, I decided I had to leave.

-4,000 flee from Eritrea

-every month...

-..frequently because

-military service is mandatory.

-It took Bahlibi

-a year to reach Europe.

-The journey

-was difficult and dangerous.

-Many people died.

-Many were killed and others

-were jailed for five to six months.

-Bahlibi shares a home

-with other asylum seekers.

-He hopes to win the right

-to remain here.

-Life here is safe.

-In the future, I'm hoping to finish

-my education and get a degree.

-I hope for a bright future and

-a chance to contribute to society.

-I met Mohammed, who is originally

-from Afghanistan, at the centre.

-He came here

-at 18 years old in 2009...

-..after his father was killed

-for converting to Christianity.

-Oasis is a good place,

-it's helped me a lot.

-When I got here, I had no clothes

-and nothing to eat.

-They help with the language

-and give all kinds of support.

-He now lives in Grangetown and works

-as a builder around Cardiff.

-He currently has no intention

-of returning to Afghanistan.

-I think I belong to a country

-that gives me food and safety.

-It doesn't matter

-where that country is.

-If I'm safe and thriving somewhere,

-I feel I belong to that country.

-As there is no security at all

-in Afghanistan...

-..life there is very hard.

-Since the terrorist attacks

-on Paris...

-..attitudes to Syrian refugees

-has hardened.

-According to a survey

-by YouGov last week...

-..the number against

-welcoming refugees to the UK...

-..has gone up by 12%.

-Mohammed,

-who's been here for five years...

-..can see why it's changed

-some people's attitudes.

-I'm frightened.

-Anyone would be frightened

-when genuine asylum seekers...

-..are confused with members of ISIS.

-For instance,

-amongst the refugees from Syria...

-..anyone could be linked

-to Daesh, ISIS.

-Aberystwyth welcomes its first group

-of refugees from Syria this week.

-The UK has pledged to give asylum

-for 20,000.

-How welcome are they in Ceredigion?

-People have to live somewhere.

-They can't stay where they are.

-Yes and no. People in this country

-need help too.

-In my opinion,

-we should look at them first.

-It's nice to help people

-across the world.

-We all live on the same planet.

-I think it's great

-for them to come here.

-It's a difficult situation.

-There's a war going on

-and they want to escape it.

-But as Lisa said, we need to look

-after our own country first.

-It's a very hard situation.

-But, while thousands

-try to break into Britain...

-..Ffion says

-we've a duty to welcome them.

-We can't stop people from coming

-because they are coming.

-This is a part of our world now.

-It's more about finding a way

-of how we could make the most of it.

-How we can support them

-to make a contribution.

-It is happening

-and denying it is pointless.

-Following

-the recent terrorist attacks...

-..carried out

-in the name of Islam...

-..Sion found out what it's like

-to be a young Muslim in Wales.

-Penglais School.

-Reem Sallami is in Year 9.

-She was born in Yemen in the

-south west of the Arabian peninsula.

-She moved to Wales with her family

-at the age of three.

-My mum and dad come from Yemen.

-They are Muslims.

-I've been raised as a Muslim.

-Despite her first language

-being Arabic, she's learned Welsh.

-What's it like

-to be a Muslim in Wales?

-It's totally normal and natural

-for me and my family.

-There are plenty of Muslims

-in Aberystwyth...

-..and plenty of other religions.

-Everyone lives together happily

-and respects each other.

-As a migrant herself, Reem welcomes

-Ceredigion Council's decision...

-..to give refugees

-a home in the area.

-It's important

-to help other people...

-..particularly people

-who are in need.

-We should all treat other people

-the way we'd want to be treated.

-That's the golden rule

-of every religion.

-Following the recent terrorist

-attacks in Paris and beyond...

-..made in the name of Islam,

-have attitudes towards her changed?

-Some people have asked me

-for my views on what happened.

-Nobody has been blaming me.

-Everyone sees me

-as chatty, fun-loving Reem.

-I'm a person first and foremost

-to my friends, not a Muslim.

-Reem is saddened

-by the terrorist attacks.

-She emphasizes that peace

-is central to Islam.

-There is a difference

-between a Muslim and a terrorist.

-Not every Muslim is a threat.

-Not every Muslim

-believes in violence.

-Do you feel sad that your religion

-is being connected to it?

-Yes. I feel very sad.

-I'm sure all good Christians...

-..are sad that Syria

-is being bombed at present.

-Last week, MPs debated

-for and against bombing Syria.

-That's the topic of discussion

-for Catrin.

-On Wednesday night,

-straight after the vote...

-..Britain started

-their bombing raids in Syria.

-The intention was to take on IS

-or Daesh in their strongholds.

-The decision divided opinion.

-A majority of Welsh MPs

-voted against - 24 of them.

-It was the unanimous stance

-of Plaid Cymru.

-I spoke to one of their MPs

-who counted the votes on the night.

-Liz Saville Roberts.

-After everything IS has done,

-why did you vote against...

-..intervening directly

-in Syria last week?

-There are two elements.

-One

-is the safety of British citizens.

-To do that, we must dismantle

-the ideology of hatred.

-Bombing raids are not going

-to dismantle that ideology.

-If anything,

-it sprays petrol on the fire.

-IS has killed thousands including

-more than a hundred in Paris.

-Surely something must be done.

-Assad's forces are thought to have

-killed seven times the number...

-..Daesh have killed of Syrians.

-We're talking about

-bombing certain areas here.

-Not too long ago, we were talking

-about bombing Assad's forces.

-We're being dragged into a war

-with Daesh...

-..in a place where western forces

-are seen as threats.

-What good will we do

-by throwing our forces in there?

-It will just lead

-to more fundamentalism.

-Fundamentalism as an ideology

-is what we need to address.

-IS is on our doorstep.

-What else can we do?

-Plaid Cymru feels we have to get

-to the root of fundamentalism.

-We must target Sunni hate preachers

-in Saudi Arabia...

-..and identify the financiers of

-the rebels and the arms in Syria.

-Only wide-ranging discussions...

-..through the United Nations

-will solve this.

-Talking takes time.

-We haven't got that time.

-That's the reality.

-It's sad that political decisions

-here seem to be taken at haste...

-..for the sake

-of being seen to be doing something.

-The danger is

-it makes things worse, not better...

-..because of our political situation

-at home.

-We need to look at stopping

-the flood of arms into the region...

-..and counteract the ideology.

-Why can't we have that

-along with military intervention?

-Can't we do the discussions

-and the investigations...

-..along with the military action -

-why not do both?

-Because the bombing

-makes things worse.

-It creates more hostility and

-strengthens the enemy's argument.

-It reinforces their ideology

-both there and here.

-It makes our lives more dangerous.

-Are you saying

-that Britain wasn't a target?

-We were a target and our actions

-are making that worse not better.

-This will harden opinion against us.

-Western powers have a history

-of wading in with grand gestures...

-..and then leaving behind

-an uncertain limbo.

-We've seen it in Iraq and Libya

-and now it'll happen in Syria.

-The ideology of hatred

-fills the void when we leave.

-There's no peace plan in place.

-We're just seeding

-more trouble for the future.

-If we don't strike back, are we seen

-as a soft touch or fearful of IS?

-Thirteen countries have been bombing

-in Syria for two years...

-..without the RAF.

-What difference do we make?

-Is it just an action to say

-that we are doing something?

-The danger is we make things worse

-and solve nothing.

-Liz Saville Roberts, thanks.

-That's all for tonight.

-Join us next week...

-..as we look at the plight

-of the homeless over Christmas.

-Hacio is back next Thursday.

-S4C Subtitles by Testun Cyf.

-.