Hacio'n Holi Hacio

-*

-Welcome to a new series of Hacio.

-We're at the Senedd

-in Cardiff Bay...

-..for a special edition

-of Hacio'n Holi.

-Young people

-from across Wales...

-..discuss the topics

-that are important to them.

-And special guests join us

-to answer the audience's questions.

-Over recent weeks, Hacio has been

-on a schools tour across Wales...

-..discussing topics that worry

-and agitate the nation's youth...

-..and asking their opinion of

-Welsh First Minister Carwyn Jones.

-Who is Carwyn Jones?

-He's something to do with Wales.

-Um, he works in the Senedd.

-Wales' First Minister.

-Wales' First Minister.

-

-I've heard of him.

-But I don't know what he does.

-Also, after our football team's

-success at the Euros...

-..does rugby have to raise its game?

-Why choose football

-over rugby today?

-The price. I've got

-a five-game season ticket for 80.

-That's the price of one rugby game.

-We've also discussed

-legalizing cannabis....

-..after North Wales Police and

-Crime Commissioner Arfon Jones...

-..came out in favour of legalizing

-cannabis for medicinal use.

-I think we should legalize cannabis,

-but we need to be careful...

-..that the public is aware

-that there are still risks.

-Those are tonight's topics

-on Hacio'n Holi.

-Representatives of all the schools

-we visited on our tour...

-..have come to the Senedd.

-From Bro Teifi to Bangor,

-Y Creuddyn to the Rhondda...

-..they will

-voice their opinions tonight.

-First, we welcome Wales'

-First Minister, Carwyn Jones.

-I'm sure he's a familiar face

-to some of you at home...

-..but is that true of our audience?

-Carwyn Howell Jones,

-or according to some, Cah-wyn.

-First Minister of Wales and

-leader of Welsh Labour since 2009.

-He studied Law

-at university in Aberystwyth...

-..and was a barrister,

-university tutor and councillor...

-..before being elected AM

-for Bridgend in 1999.

-He is the third First Minister

-since the Assembly's inception...

-..and the only Labour leader

-in power in Britain.

-But how much does our group

-know about him?

-Who is Carwyn Jones?

-He's something to do with Wales.

-Um, he works in the Senedd.

-Wales' First Minister.

-Wales' First Minister.

-

-No, sorry.

-I've heard of him,

-but I don't know what he does.

-Who is Carwyn Jones?

-Who is Carwyn Jones?

-

-Is he Wales' First Minister?

-Do you know?

-Do you know?

-

-Wales' First Minister.

-Some accuse him of being lazy...

-..and claim health and education

-have worsened during his tenure.

-But others praise him...

-..for protecting Welsh students

-from high tuition fees...

-..aiming to have a million

-Welsh speakers by 2050...

-..and introducing a charge

-for plastic bags.

-How does that make you feel?

-Some young people

-didn't know who you are.

-Most did, thankfully!

-I hope they'll know more

-after tonight.

-It's now time

-to question the First Minister.

-Glesni, who have you got?

-Glesni, who have you got?

-

-Megan Mead, Ysgol Gyfun Plasmawr.

-Do you know

-what exactly Carwyn Jones does?

-No, I'm not really aware

-of what you do.

-On that basis, what's your question

-for Carwyn Jones?

-What can you do to get young people

-interested in politics...

-..and to understand your role

-as First Minister?

-This question is often asked.

-How can we ensure

-that young people turn out to vote?

-Not voting

-means not having a voice.

-No-one can listen to you,

-so voting is vital.

-Meetings like this one, where you

-can ask me questions, are crucial.

-When I was your age,

-there was one Prime Minister.

-She was Margaret Thatcher,

-and she wouldn't have come here.

-Guto, over to you.

-Katie, do you think young people

-are involved enough with politics?

-A lot of people think politicians

-tell lies and aren't trustworthy.

-How would you change attitudes...

-..and encourage more young people

-to engage with politics?

-The problem is,

-people now think that's true.

-We've seen what's happened

-in America and here this year.

-People think it doesn't matter

-that politicians lie, but it does.

-I haven't told any lies

-since I've been in this job.

-It's vital that people trust you.

-One thing that's changed

-over the years...

-..is that politicians have tended

-to speak an unfamiliar language.

-They sound out of touch

-with ordinary life.

-It's vital that I can walk around

-Bridgend and talk to residents.

-My children go to the local school

-and I live a relatively normal life.

-If I don't do that,

-I can't know what people think.

-Guto, any reaction?

-What can politicians do...

-..to get young people

-interested in politics?

-You said in your answer

-to the first question...

-..that without a vote,

-young people have no voice.

-Would giving younger people a vote

-make us engaged with politics?

-No, not in itself.

-If that were true...

-..everyone aged between 18 and 24

-would vote...

-..whereas only 30% do.

-The problem is,

-people over 60 do vote.

-My fear is that, over time,

-politicians will think...

-..OK, older people vote,

-but young people don't...

-..so we don't need to listen to them

-because they have no opinions.

-That would be bad for society.

-Lois, how do you react to that?

-You spoke about young people voting.

-Looking at the Brexit statistics...

-..if more than 30%

-of young people had voted...

-..do you think

-it would have happened?

-No.

-If young people had voted...

-If more young people had voted...

-..I don't think Brexit

-would have happened.

-A very high percentage of under 30s

-wanted to remain in the EU.

-People said to me afterwards

-that maybe they should have voted.

-That leads us nicely

-to the next topic.

-It has been discussed, and is still

-being discussed ad infinitum.

-Even so, it is very important.

-Glesni, you're with Ellie,

-who has a question.

-Yes, Ellie Davies, Ystalyfera.

-You have a question

-about a very important topic.

-As children, we will be affected

-by the ramifications of Brexit...

-..yet we had no voice to ask

-the questions we wanted to ask.

-My question is this.

-How will we as young Welsh people

-benefit from the Brexit reforms?

-I wanted us to stay in.

-All I see at the moment

-are challenges.

-I'm trying to be positive,

-knowing that we have to leave...

-..but we need to discuss

-some very difficult subjects.

-Will we still be able to sell

-Welsh goods in the single market...

-..without any tariffs or taxes?

-What will the arrangements be...

-..as regards visiting

-or living in another country?

-No-one knows the answers

-to those questions.

-As it stands, I've never witnessed

-such an uncertain period.

-It's crucial that the UK government

-tells us exactly what the plan is.

-You mentioned freedom of movement

-of people in Europe...

-..and access to the single market...

-..and all the uncertainty.

-What is your priority?

-What exactly do you want?

-What exactly do you want?

-

-The single market.

-That's crucial to us.

-You could argue

-that some people voted for Brexit...

-..because maybe they didn't want

-freedom of movement.

-Some did say that, but no-one said

-we need to pull out of this market.

-Nobody.

-You can't have both.

-You can't

-fully control immigration...

-..and have access

-to the single market.

-You have to choose.

-We need access

-to the single market...

-..to ensure that businesses

-located in Wales...

-..who are here

-because of that access...

-..will stay here and employ people.

-If you take that stance,

-you have to consider...

-..what agreement is necessary

-as regards immigration.

-The UK government has admitted that

-border controls are impossible...

-..because we'll have an open border

-with the EU via Ireland.

-Guto, over to you.

-My question is...

-..should young people

-without a voice...

-..have had a voice,

-have had a vote?

-I'm talking about people our age.

-Should 16 and 17-year-olds

-have had a vote in the referendum?

-Yes, in my opinion.

-Anyone over 16

-should have had a vote.

-Why? That's what happened

-in the Scottish referendum.

-Why one rule for Scotland

-and another for this referendum?

-In my opinion, over 16s

-should have a vote, full stop.

-But having the right is one thing.

-Making sure they turn out

-and use their vote is another.

-But for me,

-16 should be the voting age.

-Gareth, you've supported Labour

-all your life.

-What's your opinion

-about what you've heard so far?

-Yes, I've always supported Labour.

-My parents are party members,

-as am I.

-I always fight with my friends...

-..if they argue that

-every political party is the same.

-Physically?!

-Not physically, no!

-I feel so disappointed...

-..that young people

-didn't have a voice.

-You said that it's difficult

-to get young people to vote.

-But I know I'd have voted

-if I'd had a vote.

-We all probably would have.

-Mirain's nodding.

-Do you agree with Gareth?

-Do you agree with Gareth?

-

-Yes, I do.

-It was disappointing not to get

-the chance to have our say.

-It's our future, ultimately.

-It's a huge disappointment

-in my opinion.

-On that note,

-we'll move on to the next topic.

-It's a very relevant subject

-for this young audience - education.

-I know you have several questions

-for the First Minister.

-Guto, who's first?

-Guto, who's first?

-

-I'm with Elin.

-How will you ensure

-that young Welsh people...

-..will be able to afford to go to

-university or further education...

-..if money is tight?

-We have had the Diamond Review.

-I can tell you

-that things will change.

-We have to find ways to target

-those people with least means.

-We also need to target help

-for postgraduates.

-We know how important they are.

-There will be

-a different package available.

-But it will still be more generous

-than what's available in England.

-We have to weigh up the costs...

-..with having a fair package

-on the table for young Welsh people.

-But isn't it true

-that our audience members...

-..will leave university

-with higher debts...

-..than people like me who benefited

-from the current system?

-Yes, that is true.

-I think it's true to say

-that in the 1950s and 1960s...

-..there was

-a lot more money available...

-..but a lot fewer students.

-..but a lot fewer students.

-

-Is that fair?

-Well, there's a balance.

-Do you have fewer students

-and give people fewer opportunities?

-Or do you have more students...

-..and share the cost between

-the students and the government?

-Guto, you're with Bethan.

-Guto, you're with Bethan.

-

-We've heard about the uncertainty.

-What are your biggest fears?

-In my opinion,

-the proposed changes...

-..could make higher education

-more elitist.

-Will they prevent students

-from poorer homes...

-..from opting for higher education?

-There will be more support

-for those with less money...

-..to ensure that doesn't happen.

-We have to offer

-the opportunity to everyone...

-..and that requires more money being

-available for those who need it.

-Glesni.

-You've heard what Carwyn Jones

-has to say. How do you feel?

-You spoke about the huge debts.

-Take professions such as doctors.

-Graduating can cost

-as much as 70,000.

-Think about jobs

-like GPs and engineers...

-..with a shortage of recruits.

-Take countries like Australia,

-New Zealand and France...

-..where governments

-offer more money...

-..why should they stay

-in this country...

-..if you won't make it easier

-for them to graduate more cheaply?

-One thing I would say...

-..anyone studying medicine or

-engineering will always have a job.

-There's a big shortage

-of engineering students.

-Engineering also offers up

-lots of sponsorship opportunities...

-..to take you through university,

-and the same is true for medicine.

-One more quick question

-and a brief answer, if possible.

-Earlier, you weren't sure

-what Carwyn Jones does.

-What's your question

-to tie up the debate?

-As a young person, I'm worried

-by the lack of jobs available.

-I worry about going to university

-and graduating with huge debts.

-What do you have to say to the many

-who share that concern nowadays?

-If you have a degree,

-you'll always be better off...

-..than people without a degree,

-as a rule.

-It's worth going to university,

-if that's what you want to do...

-..and ensuring you have a degree.

-We then ask people

-to pay a bit back...

-..because they have an advantage

-in the labour market.

-First Minister, thank you

-for answering the questions.

-Join us after the break

-when we discuss our national game.

-But what is it by now?

-WRU chair Gareth Davies joins us.

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-Subtitles

-Subtitles

-

-Subtitles

-Welcome back to Hacio'n Holi

-from the Senedd in Cardiff Bay.

-Our next subject is sport.

-Wales are in the middle

-of the Autumn Series.

-We're joined by Gareth Davies...

-..the former Wales international

-and current chairman of the WRU.

-Is rugby losing ground following

-the surge of football in Wales?

-Less than two weeks ago,

-80,000 supporters came together...

-..as the Welsh rugby

-and football teams...

-..played in the capital

-on the same day.

-The FAW has been praised...

-..for its success

-in attracting new supporters...

-..as well as its use

-of the Welsh language.

-Despite drawing more supporters...

-..the rugby stadium

-still had over 20,000 empty seats.

-Meanwhile,

-the Cardiff City Stadium was full.

-Why choose the football

-over the rugby today?

-The price. I've got a season ticket

-to see five games for 80.

-That's about the same as the price

-of one ticket to see the rugby.

-As a student, that makes sense.

-At times, the prices can be high -

-80 or 60.

-Not everyone can afford that.

-What can the WRU do to attract

-the next generation to rugby?

-Some there

-talked about ticket prices.

-We'll come back to that shortly.

-Guto mentioned attracting

-the next generation of supporters.

-Guto has our first question

-for Gareth Davies.

-Gruff Stead is from Ysgol Tryfan.

-You're a big sports fan.

-Yes, I went to quite a few

-Euros games this summer.

-After Wales' success in the Euros...

-..do you think the WRU

-need to up their game?

-I think the important words there

-were "Wales' success".

-Nobody took more pride

-from it than me.

-It was great to see the success

-of Aaron Ramsey, Gareth Bale...

-..Joe Allen and the lads

-over the summer.

-I was out in New Zealand

-at the time...

-..and was getting up early

-to watch them.

-Nobody was prouder than me.

-I would hope that football fans

-enjoyed watching Wales beat Japan.

-Guto?

-Megan, what do you think?

-The football and the Euros in the

-summer brought Wales together.

-It gave a sense of belonging

-and Welshness to them.

-Do you think rugby

-can do the same thing?

-In my opinion, rugby can,

-if anything, do even better.

-If you look at the Grand Slams

-we've had over the last decade...

-..where we've had over 150,000

-people in Cardiff on the day.

-The stadium

-only holds 70,000 people.

-The important word there

-was success.

-If Wales hadn't done so well

-at the Euros...

-..they may not have had the

-attention and support that they got.

-If we can be successful

-in whatever field...

-..that will attract

-more support and attention.

-That then leads to more success.

-It was fantastic to see

-such success over the summer.

-Don't you have more work as a union

-following the success of football?

-Do you really need

-to raise your game?

-Absolutely.

-We have the same problems

-as football, to be honest.

-There's a huge age gap

-that's a threat to our game.

-When you look at when children

-come into the youth game...

-..we lose a lot of players

-at that age.

-When children leave school for

-university and the senior game...

-..that's another problem.

-Rugby, if anything, is more

-traditional than football in Wales.

-Everything depends on the clubs.

-In a way, the whole emphasis

-is on men and boys.

-The fastest growth in the sport...

-..not just in Wales but worldwide,

-is the women's game.

-The number of women playing rugby in

-Wales has doubled in the last year.

-We are concentrating.

-We're also concentrating

-on different forms of the game.

-It's not just a 15-a-side game

-for men, there's seven-a-side...

-..there's ten-a-side rugby too.

-Touch and beach rugby

-are increasingly popular too.

-It's important to get people out

-to keep fit.

-We've got some hands up. Glesni.

-Llion, does Welsh rugby

-need to raise its game?

-To a certain extent.

-Following Wales' success in France,

-there was a huge increase...

-..in the use of Welsh

-on social media...

-..including multinationals like

-Budweiser and Adidas using Welsh.

-The WRU deserves praise for recently

-increasing their use of Welsh.

-But I think you're still

-a little behind.

-How do you emulate

-the football team's success?

-I'm not sure

-about emulating their success.

-They have concentrated on doing

-some things that were very clear.

-In terms of what

-goes on day-to-day...

-..you'd find the WRU

-does a lot more than the FAW.

-Having said that...

-..I think the FAW were very clever

-in their use of the Welsh language.

-It was very effective too.

-Is there something you do to expand

-the profile of the Welsh language?

-In September, there was a job

-advertised for a role at the union.

-There was no mention of the Welsh

-language being a requirement.

-Doesn't that show

-that you don't prioritize Welsh?

-I would say

-that we need the best person.

-The person who got that job

-is a Welsh speaker.

-We're not turning against it.

-If we appoint people,

-we have to go for the best.

-If it were two equal people

-and one of them spoke Welsh...

-..she or he would get the job,

-which is what happened.

-Was the lack of reference

-to Welsh a mistake then?

-No, I don't think so.

-Was this deliberate?

-Was this deliberate?

-

-We wanted the best person.

-If you said that they

-had to be able to speak Welsh...

-..we might possibly miss out

-on the best person.

-As it turns out, the person who

-got the job was a Welsh speaker.

-Guto, you've got some people

-who want to speak.

-What do you think?

-I don't feel the Welsh language

-is the priority for you.

-How can you persuade me that

-the Welsh language is a priority?

-If we go back to

-creating a strategy...

-..our latest strategy

-was announced three months ago.

-It's on the web.

-Developing a Welsh-language policy

-for the first time...

-..is in the strategy.

-So, yes, I think we've fallen behind

-a bi but we're hoping to solve it.

-If we have this conversation

-in a year or two...

-..you'll see evidence of a bigger

-emphasis on the Welsh language.

-Let's move on to the next generation

-of supporters and players.

-During the Autumn Series, the

-Millennium Stadium hasn't been full.

-Some have criticized

-the price of tickets.

-Having said that, for the game

-against Japan with lower prices...

-..the stadium was full.

-Should you lower prices

-to attract the next generation?

-There's going to be a review

-of what has happened.

-One thing I would say

-from the start...

-..is that Autumn Series ticket

-prices haven't gone up since 2010.

-For the last six years, but I accept

-your point about the Japan game.

-The prices were lower

-for the Argentina game too.

-It's wonderful

-to see a full stadium.

-Japan had never played in front

-of such a large crowd before.

-It was a success.

-We have to remember, going back

-to the football comparison...

-..the WRU have to fund

-the entire game.

-The community game, the school game

-and the professional game.

-The FAW doesn't have to fund

-the professional game.

-The Premier League

-and other leagues do that.

-You have to look

-at the bigger picture.

-The money that comes in to the union

-all goes out.

-The union doesn't keep any profit.

-A tournament ticket

-for the football is 80.

-That's close to the price

-of a ticket to see one rugby match.

-Is there any chance

-that you'll bring prices down?

-No, to be honest, the model

-that funds the whole game...

-..is reliant on the money

-that comes in from tickets.

-Look at the Japan game,

-we had 74,000 people there.

-Financially, that would be half of

-what we got for the Australia game.

-Guto, you have a response.

-Gruff, ticket prices

-are a burning issue.

-What's your opinion?

-I think rugby concentrates more

-on making a profit...

-..than ensuring a good atmosphere

-in the stadium.

-That's totally different to

-football. What do you think?

-We play in a stadium

-for 75,000 people.

-If we played in Cardiff City

-Stadium, I'm sure it would be full.

-The atmosphere would be the same.

-I don't know

-if you were there on Saturday.

-The atmosphere was special.

-One of the reasons we'll have

-to consider ticket prices...

-..is that it was wonderful

-to see so many children there.

-The prices for concessions

-was one of the things we changed.

-Guto.

-You mentioned ticket prices

-being 80.

-If you put that in perspective...

-..it's 80 for 80 minutes,

-so it's 1 a minute.

-Do you think 1 a minute is a fair

-price for us as young people?

-I'm sure a lot of people would say

-that it isn't a fair price.

-I think we have to look

-at the market.

-Ticket prices have risen,

-albeit not every year.

-They might need to be lowered maybe

-5 every other year.

-As I say, we have to compare

-the situation with other countries.

-If you want to watch matches

-in France this year, it's 150.

-We're not France,

-but we do have to consider that.

-The price we charge for tickets...

-..corresponds to what Scotland

-and Ireland do.

-Glesni.

-Do you think ticket prices

-should go down?

-I hear you comparing prices

-with other countries.

-It's hard for me to say because I

-love watching Wales play rugby...

-..but the performances we're putting

-in at the moment aren't good enough.

-Compared to other countries...

-..England and France

-are playing exceptional rugby.

-Watching us, I can't see us

-competing with them any more.

-I don't know why, but I feel

-we're behind on skills.

-Because of that,

-I think we should lower prices.

-If we don't,

-people will lose interest.

-I don't want to be

-overly critical of the team.

-We're all disappointed

-with how recent games have gone...

-..particularly the Autumn Series,

-including the lads themselves.

-They were talking about their

-disappointment on Twitter yesterday.

-The coaches have admitted

-it's not at its best.

-I don't think you can change

-your pricing policy...

-..because that is decided

-a year or two in advance.

-But it's something

-to keep an eye on.

-If the Welsh team

-wasn't successful over the years...

-..then you wouldn't get

-as many people turning up.

-It's important for the national team

-to be successful.

-That is the engine

-that feeds the game.

-Some say there's too much emphasis

-on the national side.

-As I say, the national side

-funds the rest of the game.

-Do you think Wales' lack of

-performance in the autumn...

-..is the result

-of Warren Gatland's absence?

-Warren is clearly

-one of the world's leading coaches.

-That's why he's been chosen

-to coach the Lions next year.

-The option to be appointed

-as Lions coach...

-..was written into his contract.

-He had every right to go for it,

-and he was appointed.

-Any team would miss

-one of the world's best coaches.

-I think it's important to give

-Welsh coaches a chance to step up.

-Rob Howley has been

-with the coaching staff...

-..for seven or eight years.

-Robin McBryde is there too.

-They've got a chance over the

-next year to see what they can do.

-Since 1998 and Graham Henry,

-we've only had two Welsh coaches.

-I would say that is a weakness

-in our system of developing coaches.

-Before you go, one more question.

-What's your prediction

-for Saturday's match?

-We have to win.

-If we win, it'll be three out of

-four and people will be happier.

-I think we've got a good chance.

-South Africa aren't at their best.

-We haven't been at our best either

-but fingers crossed it improves.

-Fingers crossed.

-Gareth Davies, thank you.

-After the break...

-..we discuss the legalization

-of cannabis for medical use.

-Arfon Jones, the Police and Crime

-Commissioner for North Wales...

-..will join us

-to face this group's questions.

-.

-Subtitles

-Subtitles

-

-Subtitles

-The last subject tonight

-is legalizing cannabis.

-Recently, the North Wales Police and

-Crime Commissioner has announced...

-..that he sees health benefits

-to legalizing the drug.

-In a minute, he'll battle it out

-with our studio representatives.

-But first,

-here's a summary of the debate.

-Don't worry, Trump isn't

-on the agenda today again.

-There was another important vote

-in America this month.

-Eight American states

-legalized cannabis in November...

-..either completely

-or for medicinal use.

-Cannabis is legal to some level

-in more than half US states.

-One advocate of legalizing cannabis

-for medicinal use here...

-..is the North Wales Police and

-Crime Commissioner, Arfon Jones.

-He thinks cannabis offers medicinal

-benefits to those who need it.

-However, some experts maintain that

-cannabis is harmful psychologically.

-They also claim that it is addictive

-and a gateway to stronger drugs.

-What do you think?

-We shouldn't legalize it entirely

-right now.

-We don't know the long-term effects.

-We should legalize cannabis but we

-should also make the public aware...

-..of the risks taking it entails.

-Cannabis. Legalize or not?

-Thank you for joining us,

-Arfon Jones.

-Glesni's question

-was whether to legalize or not.

-We have one quick question

-before we go to that.

-It's asked by Mirain Dafydd.

-What's the point

-of a Police and Crime Commissioner?

-The government brought in

-the new role in 2012.

-Before that, overseeing the police

-was done by the police authorities.

-There were 17 elected officials

-in North Wales.

-The government decided to replace

-them with one elected commissioner.

-I'm in charge of the budget and I

-hold the Chief Constable to account.

-Before we move on, how many of you

-had heard of this role?

-A small proportion.

-How many hadn't heard of it?

-The majority.

-Why do you think your role

-is not that well known?

-During the election, there isn't

-the same chance to promote the job.

-The MPs and AMs get a free

-published pamphlet about themselves.

-We didn't get that and

-it's quite a task distributing...

-..200,000 pamphlets across the whole

-of North Wales without support.

-It's not really fair

-to compare us to the politicians.

-Let's move on to legalizing

-cannabis, for medicinal use.

-Why are you in favour?

-We already have some prescription

-medications that contain cannabis.

-We also have much more dangerous

-and addictive drugs...

-..like opiates and morphine already

-in everyday use in our hospitals.

-We know that cannabis does alleviate

-the symptoms of people...

-..with certain conditions,

-such as multiple sclerosis.

-How many of you agree

-that cannabis should be legalized?

-Put your hands up.

-Glesni, start the ball rolling.

-You have a very strong opinion.

-You want it legalized. Why?

-I think it's incontestable.

-The economic benefits from

-legalizing it would be massive.

-The latest research

-estimates a direct...

-..900 million boost to the Treasury

-from legalizing cannabis.

-You're in favour,

-but we have a different view here.

-I don't disagree that there might be

-a massive economic advantage.

-However, I'm against because there

-are 30 different types of cannabis.

-The implications of that are clear.

-Secondly, the mental health issues

-arising from cannabis addiction...

-..aren't yet fully understood.

-There are also worries

-about its addictive nature...

-..and the added pressure on the NHS.

-There could be massive problems

-in the future.

-How do you respond to that?

-Drug addiction

-is a public health issue.

-It shouldn't be a legal issue.

-I know a lot of people

-jailed for drug addiction.

-They come out just as addicted.

-We've had anti-drug legislation

-for over 50 years...

-..and the problem

-is just as bad as it has ever been.

-It's time we tried

-something different.

-Over to you, Guto.

-This side of the room

-is also divided.

-You disagree

-with legalizing cannabis.

-Why is that?

-I understand

-the arguments for legalizing.

-But legalizing

-for medicinal use now...

-..could lead to worse

-health problems in the future.

-There is the danger of addiction

-and experimenting with other drugs.

-You disagree too.

-We have to assess the short-term

-and long-term effects first.

-Are there other options

-we can consider...

-..before we contemplate

-legalizing something so strong...

-..which has so many

-negative connotations?

-However, you, in the middle here,

-agree with Mr Jones.

-You want cannabis legalized.

-The economic argument

-is very powerful.

-Colorado collected 63 million

-in tax dollars in a single year.

-All that money could be collected

-and ploughed into the NHS.

-It would then help

-all kinds of conditions.

-Do we want to risk our nation's

-health for our financial benefit?

-The moral question arises, should

-we all profit from drug addiction?

-People are profiting

-from supplying drugs right now.

-The problem is, they're criminals.

-If the state benefits instead, it

-will invest in the health service.

-At the moment, we've got organised

-crime groups supplying the drugs...

-..and they are pocketing

-all the profits.

-Back to you, Glesni.

-Gareth?

-People do say it would be immoral

-to legalize cannabis.

-Many people these days think

-it's immoral not to legalize it.

-Many of those who are addicted

-aren't hardened criminals.

-They are just people

-who need help.

-legalizing cannabis will help them

-come forward for help.

-The NHS should then be able

-to take steps to find ways...

-..of helping people

-trapped in cannabis addiction.

-Guto.

-Is legalizing cannabis

-worth the risk?

-I'm in favour.

-The scale of production

-can be controlled...

-..and which chemicals go into it.

-What about the social question?

-Should we send the message

-that taking drugs is okay?

-We have to accept the reasons

-for legalizing it.

-Legalizing it would bring

-regulation to the industry.

-Under the control

-of the government...

-..it would be subject to the

-same laws as every other product.

-Only pharmacists and doctors

-could prescribe it.

-You couldn't buy it in a shop.

-Alcohol is controlled by government.

-Some of you can't buy it tonight.

-That's the case

-for all prescription drugs.

-A government-regulated supply is

-much better than criminal suppliers.

-From what you've heard, do you think

-cannabis would benefit our society?

-Definitely, as a medicine.

-Are you as Crime Commissioner...

-...worried about the harm legalizing

-cannabis might do to society?

-To be honest, no.

-I have many friends

-who come from Portugal.

-Portugal stopped criminalizing

-the use of all drugs in 2001.

-The level of drug use in Portugal

-has dropped since then.

-I don't think legalizing it

-will result in increased usage.

-Staying with the theme,

-but a different aspect perhaps.

-You spoke recently about creating

-fix rooms for heroin users.

-What's the theory behind that idea?

-We've had problems in Wrexham with

-people drug-dealing on the streets.

-Some were injecting on the street.

-Fix rooms are for drug users

-to use to take their drugs.

-These rooms

-would have medical advice on hand.

-Heroin users often die because

-they have to hide their addiction.

-They overdose

-and there's no-one there to help.

-Glesni, some reaction.

-What's your reaction

-to cannabis and heroin addiction?

-I don't think fix rooms

-are a good idea.

-They'll take the heroin in the rooms

-and then suffer on the street.

-They are still on the street

-even if they shoot up safely.

-It also legitimizes taking heroin

-when that is clearly wrong.

-If you are already addicted,

-criminalizing clearly hasn't worked.

-That's been the pattern

-for 50 years.

-The fix rooms would also solve...

-..the problem of needles

-being left on the streets.

-It's a danger to children.

-Fix rooms mean they are supplied

-with needles, which they give back.

-No needles on the street.

-It won't solve all the problems

-but it is a way forward.

-One voice from the back.

-I agree with

-the idea of fix rooms...

-..because otherwise people will

-keep taking it on the streets...

-..and they should regulate

-how people get their fix.

-Guto.

-Do you agree with fix rooms?

-I disagree with fix rooms.

-Although they offer sterile, clean

-environments for drug users...

-..it also encourages them to

-continue or increase their drug use.

-Do you agree?

-I disagree entirely.

-It'll be a way of keeping

-a record of the heavy drug-takers.

-It also offers society

-a route to trying to help them.

-A record would be all well and good,

-but you still won't know...

-..what these people are doing

-outside those fix rooms.

-Will we know whether fix rooms

-are encouraging them further?

-An encouragement

-rather than an impediment?

-It isn't an encouragement.

-These people are addicted.

-I'm sure most of you here have never

-smoked but I smoked for years...

-..and I can tell you

-how difficult it is to give up.

-Drugs are no different

-or alcohol as such.

-Just taking it away doesn't work.

-If you are addicted, you will

-find your fix by hook or by crook.

-All we would be doing

-is making it safer.

-Many deaths occur because of

-the impurities in the drug itself.

-Taking it as a prescription

-in a fix room...

-..makes it so much less likely

-to kill you.

-We have to move on.

-Thanks to everyone for contributing.

-We have one last subject.

-Arfon Jones is renowned

-for some controversial tweets.

-Guto has someone with

-a specific question for you.

-What is that question?

-Should you be

-more careful on Twitter?

-As the Crime Commissioner,

-you should set us an example.

-I'm also a politician and I want

-to know what people think.

-A good way of getting a reaction

-is to be controversial.

-Hands up, I admit I've been

-very controversial over the years.

-It works well and I normally

-get quite a positive reaction.

-I put the idea about drugs

-out on Twitter.

-The Daily Post picked it up

-and it was shared 3,000 times.

-For someone like me...

-..who wants to gauge

-public opinion on certain issues...

-..then social media works a treat

-and it's fun.

-Have you regretted

-putting anything on Twitter?

-What about the bomb and GCHQ?

-That didn't quite go

-as my opponent expected.

-I'm more careful

-since being elected...

-..but I do prod

-to get a reaction.

-What do you think of social media?

-As someone with a lot of power,

-I think you need to be more careful.

-Social media is a brilliant way...

-..of getting a message across

-and explaining yourself.

-However, even kids like us

-have to be careful what we say.

-In one sentence, Arfon Jones,

-what would you like to achieve...

-..in your time as North Wales

-Police and Crime Commissioner?

-I hope I can achieve something

-with drug enforcement.

-I would also like to reduce the

-number of domestic violence cases.

-Those are the targets.

-Thank you for joining us.

-Thanks for your contributions too.

-Hacio will be back

-at 10.00pm next Thursday.

-For tonight, goodnight.

-S4C Subtitles by Testun Cyf.