Browse content similar to Amr Moussa, Secretary General of the Arab League, 2001 - 2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Welcome to a special edition of HARDtalk, on the shores of Lake | :00:10. | :00:18. | |
Como in northern Italy. My guest today genet here from Cairo. Amr | :00:19. | :00:24. | |
Moussa is widely tipped to beat Egypt's next President. He was | :00:24. | :00:28. | |
Hosni Mubarak's Foreign Minister and then was the chief of the Arab | :00:28. | :00:38. | |
:00:38. | :00:39. | ||
League. Can he deliver the profound political change that so many | :00:39. | :00:49. | |
:00:49. | :00:55. | ||
Egyptians crave after their un unevolution? | :00:55. | :01:03. | |
Amr Moussa, welcome to HARDtalk. Hosni Mubarak was toppled from | :01:03. | :01:08. | |
power in February. It is more than si siater and Egypt is being | :01:08. | :01:18. | |
:01:18. | :01:19. | ||
run by a military government. The trust it? -- do you trust it. It | :01:19. | :01:28. | |
has been handed over the authority to rule Egypt and the | :01:28. | :01:35. | |
demonstrations of the people supported that. It came with | :01:35. | :01:41. | |
popular support. At the same time the army was supportive, even | :01:41. | :01:46. | |
protective of the demonstrators. There was a kind of understanding | :01:46. | :01:52. | |
that a transitional period will be managed by the council. As the | :01:52. | :01:57. | |
saying goes, that was then and this is now. What we see now is that | :01:57. | :02:02. | |
elections have been postponed, it seems until November - presidential | :02:02. | :02:06. | |
elections will not happen this year as was originally planned. More | :02:06. | :02:15. | |
than that... We should be worried. We shall continue to be worried | :02:15. | :02:22. | |
because things are not yet determined one way or the other. It | :02:22. | :02:27. | |
is healthy, a healthy thing for an Egyptian citizen to be worried | :02:27. | :02:32. | |
about his country and the future of his country. The question of | :02:32. | :02:39. | |
elections, yes indeed I am one of those who supported that the | :02:39. | :02:44. | |
presidential elections should be run. Then comes the parliamentary | :02:44. | :02:53. | |
elections. We wanted a civilian president to preside over the | :02:54. | :03:03. | |
process and end the transitional period. That is not going to happen. | :03:03. | :03:06. | |
This will not happen immediately but if the parliamentary elections | :03:07. | :03:16. | |
:03:17. | :03:17. | ||
take place in the proper way, under good security arrangements and that | :03:17. | :03:21. | |
immediately after they are followed by a presidential elections, that | :03:21. | :03:28. | |
will do. Can I come back to my original, simple question. Right | :03:28. | :03:33. | |
now, given the situation in Egypt today the EU trust the head of the | :03:33. | :03:40. | |
Supreme Military Council and his counsel to do the right thing by | :03:40. | :03:46. | |
democracy? I trust them because they have said that they do not | :03:46. | :03:51. | |
want to stay for any longer, any more are in power and want to | :03:51. | :03:56. | |
handover the power to the elected representatives, either of | :03:56. | :04:02. | |
Parliament or a president. The fear out that the revolution may be | :04:02. | :04:07. | |
stolen that is expressed by some of the Tahrir Square protesters is | :04:07. | :04:12. | |
based on several things. Thousands of protesters who were detained by | :04:12. | :04:19. | |
the security forces in February, March, April, remain in custody. | :04:19. | :04:25. | |
fully agree with what the people demand on the military and civilian | :04:25. | :04:35. | |
:04:35. | :04:41. | ||
trial. I called for the natural law of the country to be the overseer. | :04:41. | :04:48. | |
You just day-to-day clear possession. -- you just stated a | :04:48. | :04:56. | |
clear situation. Should we continue, day after day with demonstrating or | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
we have to do something else. Demonstrations will take a | :05:00. | :05:05. | |
different shape. Given the thousands in detention, the fact | :05:05. | :05:09. | |
that the military had declared the strikes illegal, the fact that | :05:09. | :05:14. | |
Tahrir Square has been cleared out, some on the use committees have | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
called for a mass protest. They want over one million people on | :05:18. | :05:26. | |
Tahrir Square on September 9th. Will you be at the forefront of the | :05:26. | :05:31. | |
protest? I am in favour of them protesting the way they want to | :05:31. | :05:40. | |
protest... Will he be there? -- will you be there? At the front? | :05:40. | :05:48. | |
The reason I push you is that new will be aware, as I am, that there | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
are elements within the youth movement in particular that | :05:52. | :05:57. | |
question your commitment to a genuine, Democratic Reform Movement | :05:57. | :06:06. | |
in Egypt. To quote the call of nature of one of the movements, you | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
had the chance to support the revolution's early and refused. You | :06:10. | :06:18. | |
were watching. Bath did you were sure that Mubarak was a darling, | :06:18. | :06:28. | |
:06:28. | :06:30. | ||
you've joined them. -- after it you were sure that he was going. | :06:30. | :06:35. | |
doubt that this quotation is correct or even the man that says | :06:35. | :06:39. | |
that is correct. Egypt now is full of people that will say anything | :06:39. | :06:49. | |
:06:49. | :06:50. | ||
because nobody asks them to authenticate what they are saying. | :06:50. | :06:53. | |
That was there a week before the President left and became the | :06:53. | :07:00. | |
former president. If I may say so, maybe people like him that the | :07:00. | :07:06. | |
judge you on your record, the longer term record. They say where | :07:06. | :07:11. | |
was Amr Moussa during the years he served loyally to the Mubarak | :07:11. | :07:21. | |
government? For where was his voice for so many years? What is your | :07:21. | :07:28. | |
response to that. You can say so, as they like. My opinion and | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
position was very clear out on so many issues of that kind, internal | :07:32. | :07:39. | |
and external affairs. I disapprove of certain things. You want to be | :07:39. | :07:49. | |
:07:49. | :07:50. | ||
eat at's next President, the first elected President post the | :07:50. | :07:57. | |
revolution. If Hosni Mubarak is convicted of the crimes he is | :07:57. | :08:04. | |
convicted, would you offer him a pardon, clemency or not? I wonder | :08:04. | :08:13. | |
how a person like you could ask such a question. The people are | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
going to elect a president who should work within the framework of | :08:17. | :08:22. | |
a constitution. This is not going to give the President all authority | :08:23. | :08:28. | |
over such things. In such cases if they request is referred to me, I | :08:28. | :08:34. | |
shall refer it to the parliament to be decided. The next president is | :08:34. | :08:41. | |
not going to be a dictator. We are talking about a constitutional | :08:41. | :08:48. | |
President. Let me ask you about your vision for Egypt. People want | :08:48. | :08:53. | |
to know, if you want to leave the country, they want to know what you | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
stand for. How could you encapsulate your vision for the | :08:57. | :09:07. | |
:09:07. | :09:08. | ||
future... First of all, rebuild Egypt. Egypt has been left in total | :09:08. | :09:14. | |
disarray in so many areas of life. We have to rebuild the country. | :09:14. | :09:22. | |
Based on three basic items of a major political agenda - number one, | :09:22. | :09:29. | |
democracy, number two reform and number three, development. The | :09:29. | :09:35. | |
country needs reform in all four corners of our lives. Development - | :09:35. | :09:42. | |
that would reach the poor. One of the mistakes of the past economic | :09:42. | :09:48. | |
policies that has not been addressed, to extend that now we | :09:48. | :09:54. | |
have almost 50% if not more of the Egyptian people that live around | :09:54. | :10:00. | |
the poverty line. Let me ask you about the Muslim Brotherhood and | :10:00. | :10:07. | |
other Islamic parties that will be a power or in the elections. Are | :10:07. | :10:16. | |
you ready to work with them? Democracy is a democracy. To read | :10:16. | :10:26. | |
:10:26. | :10:30. | ||
an election to prevent this or that clips from winning? -- to rig to | :10:30. | :10:36. | |
prevent a group winning? If they have a significant, a controlling | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
power over the new parliament... believe they will have a sizable | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
number are and this will be the result of democracy and we should | :10:44. | :10:52. | |
accept it. He would engage with them over their desire to see a | :10:52. | :11:00. | |
much more Muslim Egypt? There will be other sizable numbers. A debate | :11:00. | :11:06. | |
will take place. They will support one point of view and others will | :11:06. | :11:15. | |
have a different point of view. the Egyptians listen to you they | :11:15. | :11:21. | |
want to try to figure out what you stand for. I stand for a civil | :11:21. | :11:26. | |
society and a clear constitution, a modern constitution that guarantees | :11:26. | :11:32. | |
the liberty of everybody with an article dealing with the Islamic | :11:32. | :11:41. | |
reference. As it exists at today, I am for it, everyone is for it but | :11:41. | :11:47. | |
also for the stipulation that all Egyptians are equal before the law | :11:47. | :11:57. | |
:11:57. | :12:02. | ||
regardless of religion, cholera, creed. -- colour, creed. There has | :12:02. | :12:08. | |
been a major controversy in Cairo because scholars have demanded that | :12:08. | :12:14. | |
Cairo University, in its literature department, stop depicting a set | :12:14. | :12:20. | |
text depicting a lesbian relationship. It is one small case | :12:20. | :12:26. | |
but... This is a small case! I want to know whether you believe. | :12:27. | :12:33. | |
you're trying to be trivial now why we are talking about a major issue! | :12:33. | :12:39. | |
Why should we accept lesbian? What is the measure for that? Those sort | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
of cultural issues, you believe, are not important in defining the | :12:44. | :12:49. | |
more he did? There are more important things than this question | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
about lesbians. There are exceptions. Why should you raise | :12:54. | :12:59. | |
such things when we are talking about basic rights, constitution, | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
the future of Egypt as if everything relies on that. I refuse | :13:03. | :13:09. | |
that logic! I am just trying to get a sense of the Egypt that you want | :13:09. | :13:19. | |
:13:19. | :13:22. | ||
to see. Egypt is much bigger to be Let me ask you about Israel. He | :13:22. | :13:28. | |
spent many a long year dealing with it. As a citizen of Egypt. In deed. | :13:28. | :13:33. | |
Do you want to see a realignment of Egypt's foreign policy, a tougher | :13:33. | :13:38. | |
stance against Israel? The Egyptian policy is very clear and it should | :13:38. | :13:43. | |
be. As far as the conflict is concerned, we should stick to the | :13:43. | :13:51. | |
Arab nations. The agreement in 2002 is the basic document but Egypt | :13:51. | :13:56. | |
will follow in relation to the Arab-Israeli conflict. This is the | :13:56. | :14:03. | |
constitution that we are going to stick to. The in the immediate | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
aftermath of the downfall of Hosni Mubarak, the Foreign Minister has | :14:06. | :14:11. | |
moved on but he started using a new language. We heard the Egyptian | :14:11. | :14:17. | |
government refer to Israel as the enemy. Reaching out to Hamas. A | :14:17. | :14:21. | |
warming-up of relations with Iran. Reaching out to Hamas is not wrong, | :14:21. | :14:26. | |
it is the right thing to do. They are Palestinians. What the Egyptian | :14:27. | :14:29. | |
government tried to do is bring both of them together and they were | :14:29. | :14:34. | |
working on that before the fall of my Barack and after the fall of my | :14:34. | :14:44. | |
:14:44. | :14:46. | ||
Barack. -- Mubarak. -- Mubarak. to that describing his well as the | :14:46. | :14:51. | |
enemy? Who did? We have reports of this. You can pick and choose | :14:51. | :14:57. | |
things. Definitely, Israel is anniversary when it comes to the | :14:57. | :15:02. | |
Palestinian question, when it comes to the rights of Palestinians. -- | :15:02. | :15:12. | |
:15:12. | :15:13. | ||
and add bursary. -- an adversary. We had a peace treaty with Israel. | :15:13. | :15:16. | |
This treaty is to be respected provided they respected as well. | :15:16. | :15:21. | |
That leads to another interesting question. What we saw last month | :15:21. | :15:26. | |
was violence across the Israel- Egypt border. An incursion from | :15:26. | :15:32. | |
Sinai into Israel. It was an incursion from the other direction. | :15:33. | :15:38. | |
Both ways. The Israelis insist militants attacked targets inside | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
Israel. Our government insists it was the other way around and I | :15:42. | :15:51. | |
stick with that. The Bottom Line is this - there was a recent report | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
that you sign a protest document, which called for the expulsion of | :15:55. | :16:01. | |
Israel's ambassador, more Egyptian troops into the Sinai and the hall | :16:01. | :16:09. | |
to a natural gas exports to Israel. -- the halt of. A supported the | :16:09. | :16:18. | |
recalling of the ambassador. After the Israelis embarked on certain | :16:18. | :16:23. | |
violations. Right now, this is important, people will be watching | :16:23. | :16:28. | |
this in Israel and across the world. They wanted to know what kind of | :16:28. | :16:31. | |
Egyptian the do you might be. Do you believe it will be the right | :16:31. | :16:37. | |
thing to do to expel is well's ambassador, to cut of natural gas | :16:37. | :16:44. | |
supplies? -- is well's. You are putting that very crudely. Had I | :16:44. | :16:49. | |
been Foreign Minister, I would have recalled the ambassador, first | :16:49. | :16:59. | |
:16:59. | :17:03. | ||
thing. We should revisit this agreement. Really? A will tell you | :17:03. | :17:13. | |
:17:13. | :17:13. | ||
why. It was not the right one. It was a case of corruption linked to | :17:13. | :17:19. | |
that deal. As a government official, if there was a case of corruption, | :17:19. | :17:26. | |
if the Egyptian negotiators indeed excepted a price that was much | :17:26. | :17:30. | |
lower than the international prize and the fact that Jordan has agreed | :17:30. | :17:36. | |
recently to increase the price of gas, why not do the same as the | :17:36. | :17:42. | |
Israelis? It is interesting the tone you take it on relations with | :17:42. | :17:47. | |
Israel. You talked on the importance of listening to the | :17:47. | :17:52. | |
Egyptian people. Opinion polls suggest the majority of Egyptians | :17:52. | :17:57. | |
support either radical amendment or the revoking of the Camp David | :17:57. | :18:01. | |
peace accords between Egypt and Israel. Is that something you would | :18:01. | :18:07. | |
consider as leader? First of all, the document is not applicable | :18:07. | :18:11. | |
anymore. It has been replaced by the treaty. Let us call it the | :18:11. | :18:18. | |
peace treaty. The current peace treaty. As we are going to be | :18:18. | :18:23. | |
involved, more and more, in rebuild in Egypt, we are not going to take | :18:23. | :18:28. | |
an adventurous foreign policy. have little time left and before we | :18:28. | :18:33. | |
end, I must ask you about the bigger Arab world picture. The so- | :18:33. | :18:39. | |
called Arab Spring. If you are the leader of the Post-revolutionary | :18:39. | :18:44. | |
Egypt, will you make it your business to try and extend this | :18:44. | :18:54. | |
there of democracy across the region? -- the sphere. I believe | :18:54. | :18:58. | |
that should be the centrepiece of Egyptian democracy, to support | :18:58. | :19:02. | |
modernisation and a change. Is it therefore not a problem that also | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
long, as Foreign Minister and secretary general of the Arab | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
League, you have had extraordinarily close and friendly | :19:11. | :19:15. | |
partnership relations with a whole host of authoritarian leaders | :19:15. | :19:22. | |
across the region? I hope, when we meet next time, you will have read | :19:22. | :19:28. | |
more about what I have done in the Arab League. Most of the proposals, | :19:28. | :19:36. | |
the resolutions, about changing, modernising the Arab world, | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
development, they were introduced by me. Read the documents. I have | :19:40. | :19:46. | |
read many of your speeches. speeches, resolutions. Ministerial | :19:46. | :19:52. | |
resolutions. They called for change. Let's talk about the delivery of | :19:52. | :19:59. | |
change. In brief, yes or no, do you support the Western intervention to | :19:59. | :20:07. | |
deliver the ousting of Gaddafi? as secretary general of the Arab | :20:07. | :20:10. | |
League, implement the resolution adopted by the council in putting | :20:10. | :20:17. | |
the matter before the Security Council. How the security council | :20:17. | :20:22. | |
acted is a different story but my role was to put the case of | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
attacking civilians in Libya before the Security Council to prevent it. | :20:26. | :20:34. | |
As we sit here today, are you pleased to see Green Square renamed | :20:34. | :20:44. | |
:20:44. | :20:44. | ||
Marta's Square. -- Martyrs'. Are you happy to see the Gaddafi family | :20:44. | :20:49. | |
out of the country? This change was necessary and I am. Let us talks | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
Syria. Would you like to see the Arab League, Arab countries taking | :20:53. | :20:59. | |
much more proactive interventionist stance to get Bashar al-Assad out | :20:59. | :21:06. | |
of Syria? We try to intervene in the early days. The revolution in | :21:06. | :21:16. | |
:21:16. | :21:16. | ||
Syria. Some of the Arab countries neighbouring Syria advised that we | :21:16. | :21:26. | |
should move slowly. Until things were clear. My inclination was, do | :21:26. | :21:31. | |
not touched the demonstrators. Do not choose violence against the | :21:31. | :21:35. | |
people and their demonstrations or protests. This was my put his -- | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
position and continues to be my position. In the Guardian, I read a | :21:39. | :21:43. | |
powerful piece by a Syrian opposition figure saying, we do not | :21:44. | :21:47. | |
want the West to intervene in Syria. The Syrian people do not want that | :21:47. | :21:52. | |
but what we would like to see is the Arab world and Turkey doing | :21:52. | :21:57. | |
everything in their power to get Bashar al-Assad out. If you were | :21:57. | :22:02. | |
the next elected leader of Egypt? Will that be your mission? Are we | :22:03. | :22:08. | |
going to stay until I am elected some time next year? We have to act | :22:08. | :22:13. | |
now. Arab countries and society have to act now and asked the | :22:13. | :22:17. | |
Syrian authorities to stop using violence against the Syrian | :22:17. | :22:23. | |
population. And if not, they should come back to the Arab League and | :22:23. | :22:31. | |
asked for sanctions as they did against Libya. I hope they will | :22:31. | :22:35. | |
come back with such a recommendation. In short, you want | :22:35. | :22:41. | |
to see the complete isolation of Syria from the Arab world? No. I | :22:42. | :22:46. | |
want the change to take place in those Arab countries. I want them | :22:46. | :22:52. | |
to understand, all of them, at the time has come for them to | :22:52. | :22:58. | |
understand that people cannot accept the continuation of their | :22:58. | :23:05. | |
life under pressure and under dictatorship and so on. This is the | :23:05. | :23:09. | |
point a call on them to understand. This is a historic dimension and a | :23:09. | :23:12. | |
historic to the top and which is going to take place whether they | :23:12. | :23:20. | |
like it or not. -- to take place. senior figure in the Social | :23:20. | :23:25. | |
Democratic Party, a small party in Egypt, he said the other day, it | :23:25. | :23:28. | |
Egypt built a modern, secular state it will have an impact across the | :23:28. | :23:34. | |
whole region but if Egypt goes into a dark tunnel, it will take the | :23:34. | :23:40. | |
whole region with it. Do you agree? Yes. Which way is Egypt going to | :23:40. | :23:45. | |
go? I agree with the general meaning of what the gentleman has | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
said but I hope Egypt will be the Engine to take the whole of the | :23:49. | :23:55. | |
Middle East behind it into more open horizons of democracy, of | :23:55. | :24:00. | |
prosperity and freedom. I hope so. Egypt is capable of doing so. | :24:00. | :24:05. | |
Moussa, we have to end there. Thank you very much for being on HARDtalk. | :24:06. | :24:15. | |
:24:16. | :24:33. | ||
Good morning. It looked as though the weather knew that most children | :24:33. | :24:37. | |
go back to school this week. There has been a change of weather. The | :24:37. | :24:40. | |
summer holidays are over. Autumn has well and truly arrived. Quite | :24:40. | :24:43. | |
cool this week. Rain at times and pretty windy as well. Plenty of | :24:43. | :24:47. | |
leaves blown off the trees over the next couple of days. This area of | :24:47. | :24:50. | |
low pressure moves in and look how tightly packed the isobars are. It | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
means it will be a windy start to the day. Temperatures will sit in | :24:54. | :25:02. | |
double figures. With the cloud, rain and win, you won't bother | :25:02. | :25:06. | |
about that. The most important thing is it will be a grey or wet | :25:06. | :25:09. | |
for the start of your journey to school or work. At eight o'clock in | :25:09. | :25:12. | |
the morning, plenty of rain in England. That extends down into | :25:12. | :25:16. | |
East Anglia. A grey, wet morning in the south-east. Along that south | :25:16. | :25:20. | |
coast, a similar story. We might see indications across South Wales | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
of some of that rain but the south- west in general will be grey and | :25:24. | :25:26. | |
wet. Perhaps some brightness starting to develop across Wales | :25:26. | :25:33. | |
but further inland, rather grey, wet and windy too. It is going to | :25:33. | :25:43. | |
:25:43. | :25:44. | ||
be a case of dry across Northern Ireland but showers gather. Won't | :25:44. | :25:48. | |
be long before we see frequent showers. A real clump of heavy rain | :25:48. | :25:52. | |
across western Scotland for a time. It really is going to be a scenario | :25:52. | :25:55. | |
of plenty of showers. A lot of rain around first thing in the morning. | :25:55. | :25:59. | |
As the day continues, the bulk of the rain will drift south and east, | :25:59. | :26:02. | |
allowing for a slightly brighter start. The wind is still with us | :26:02. | :26:05. | |
throughout the day and will drive showers along the west coast. Some | :26:05. | :26:09. | |
will filter further inland in the afternoon. The best of the weather, | :26:09. | :26:11. | |
perhaps, reserved for the second half of the day. Temperatures | :26:11. | :26:14. | |
gradually cranking their way up towards 16 or 18 degrees. Not | :26:14. | :26:18. | |
brilliant out there by any means. If you're heading off to the Rose | :26:18. | :26:20. | |
Bowl watch the one-day international, a wet start but | :26:20. | :26:23. | |
hopefully there will be some play in the afternoon. You can listen to | :26:23. | :26:30. | |
that on 5 live. Once the rain clears away, it stays pretty breezy | :26:30. | :26:33. | |
throughout the week and further showers driven along by the | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
westerly wind. A rather unsettled scenario. On Wednesday, a breezy | :26:36. | :26:46. | |
:26:46. | :26:47. | ||
day. The best of any brightness perhaps in sheltered south-eastern | :26:47. | :26:50. | |
areas, temperatures up to 20 degrees. From Thursday and Friday | :26:50. | :26:53. |