Aref Ali Nayed HARDtalk

Britain. He told delegates he wanted a society where hard work

and responsibility were awarded. That is the headlines. Now it is

time for HARDtalk. Maybe toppling the Gaddafi regime

was the easy part. Libya's new role as are now committed to building a

united, democratic state from the ruins of the canal's dictatorship.

Can it be done? As yet there is no functioning government in Tripoli.

My guest is the chief operations manager of the stabilisation team,

Aref Ali Nayed, he is in Dubai. How long will it take the new Libya to

Aref Ali Nayed in Dubai, welcome to HARDtalk. There is no fully

functioning central government in Tripoli. Why not? I don't think

that is an accurate statement. The caretaker executive team has been

in Tripoli and from the valley early days of the liberation of

Tripoli, the Deputy Prime Minister came into Tripoli and ministers

also and the government is being run out of the building of the

prime ministership, the Prime Minister's office. Most ministers

are in Tripoli. Or at least they had been in Tripoli. It is

interesting the way you phrase it, most of them had been in Tripoli. I

dare say most of them have been at one time or another but they are

not staying there. There is not a sense of a coherent, for the

functioning government with ministries operating. Let me just

0.8 UN official who said, they need to be seen running the country from

Tripoli and we have not seen it yet. -- let me just caught up a -- quote

a minister. We are in transition. This was a very busy week as some

of the officials were out of the country for meetings. There have

been extensive consultations in Benghazi, Misrata. Other cities. I

hope that you do not see these consultations as a witness. You

should see them as a strength of the government. I think that the

notion that there is no central government is inaccurate. It is

dangerous. If you are looking for Central Command, Control the type

that Gaddafi exercised, we had a revolution because we do not want

that. What you have now our networks of people in touch with

their localities. They are able to keep the country together and keep

the main functions of government going. People do have electricity,

water, basic health, schools have opened. I think we have to be fair

with what is happening. No matter, I do not underestimate the

infrastructure changes that have occurred in Tripoli, tTripoli, tes

coming back. Here is what a Libyan political analyst has said, he has

been writing a lot about the country. He says the current

national transitional council lacks vision, legitimacy and power on the

ground. Those who have legitimacy, he says, are by and large the

people who actually fought in the war. I respect every Libyan's view.

I feel the National Transitional Council has consensus of legitimacy,

unprecedented - not since the time of the King have we seen a true

national consensus. This can sense and is real. Legitimacy is provided

by... Correct and this consensus is All of the Libyans who have worked

so hard are part of the revolution. The legitimacy is ultimately be the

Libyan people. Not with a subset of the Libyan people. I believe the

National Transitional Council has that legitimacy. As for the power

or underground, they are keeping the country together. Liberating

one town, city after another. Libya is a large country and this is not

an easy task... Left's talk about security, specifically. -- we will

talk about. The security of the people and the ability to command

and control security forces. This is about legitimacy in a sense that

the National Transitional Council does not control the armed forces

that fight in its name. We have seen in Bani Walid and other places

that the command and control six with the thermometer. I do to --

sit with different militia. I do not like that word. What is most

important is that if you ask the young people who they are fighting

for, they tell you they are fighting for Libya. They will tell

you they are fighting for the NTC. You keep looking for the

centralised army with a top down type of exertion of power, that is

what the people revolted against. So long as everyone is fighting for

the same cause, fighting for freedom. Hang on, let me stop you

for a moment. Your assertion is interesting. Let me. -- let me

referred to one person who has Islamist affiliations and has said

that he opposes the involvement of so many Gaddafi officials at the

top of the National Transitional Council. Of course, I have

tremendous respect for these young man who led many battles for the

freedom of the country. When you quote him you must understand he

speaks as a commander in a group of young fighters and as such, he does

a baby orders of the head of the National Transitional Council. --

he does obey the orders. He also has another capacity, as they

Libyan he is entitled to his opinion. He can have any opinion he

likes. That is the duty, that is what we fought for. I do not like

the use of these adjectives - is almost, -- Islamist, non- Islamist.

We will talk about the idea of what is happening on the ground.

Different elements of the military under the control of the National

Transitional Council. We have seen commanders on the ground around

Sirte, for example, where they want to finally take the town. They

claim there is a lack of resources and an -- and ammunition. The

question is, how long will it take to capture a or kill Gaddafi and

take the town's? I do not like the word mop up and aggressive

activities. The reason the campaigns are taking so long is

that they recognise they are dealing with fellow Libyans. They

are being incredibly patient, trying to negotiate their way into

the towns. Asked the population to liberate itself rather than be

invaded from the outside. No Libyan will accept that kind of position

of will from fellow Libyans. We see these strategies working. Many

people are either fleeing these cities where there are

concentrations of the mercenaries who want to fight. We are seeing

many towns to have liberated themselves in the south. Tens of

towns. People focus on a couple of cases where we have difficulties

but these difficult situations showed that people are being

patient and prudent. All right, you came. -- team. The messages of

defiance from Gaddafi are meaningless. Of course he will be

annoying us from time to time but this annoyance does not amount to a

real challenge to the sovereignty, integrity and unity of the beer. I

would like to add that the chairman of the stabilisation team, they are

working with hundreds and hundreds of Libyans. Why is it that many

other weapons have been allowed to be stolen out of your stockpiles?

You can try to God so many sites in such a vast area and you will see

the challenge. -- you will try to guard. Libya is a vast country and

our forces are quite small and also quite scattered. Would you with

knowledge that you failed. In recent months BBC reporters have

said that some of them are completely unguarded. Human Rights

Watch says there is serious weaponry, the key ingredient for

car bombs are out of the hands of authorities and in the hands of God

knows who. There is such a thing as the fog of war. Given the limited

resources, the scattered nature of the fighters, the vast country, the

amazingly vast arsenals that up all over the place, unidentified, we

have succeeded. If he would like to be cynical about it, of course you

can call it a failure. It is a It is not a question of cynicism.

It is just listening to other people who say that the amount of

weapons in circulation a pose a threat to Europe and other nations.

It is the case that many arsenals have been secured. You have to be

fairer when you are judging to make sure that you are applying to do --

applying resources to the situation at hand. We have talked a lot about

legitimacy. Let us talk about future divisions in the politics of

Libya. Dear accept that there is growing evidence of the Islamist

frustration with post Gaddafi politics? In the divisive aged Jews

are not helpful. -- adjectives. I would simply call it the Muslim

Brotherhood. You run the risk of lumping together of all kinds of

Islamic movements by just using one adjective to put them all together.

The approach has to be new -- nuanced. This is a polyphony of

voices. It is a mosaic tendency. The Muslim Brotherhood will be

there and so will the rubles, the secularists and everybody else. --

rebels. I take your point about caution. You are a theology

academic and you have worked on inter-faith programmes around the

world. For example, when there is a real discussion inside your country

about the role of Sharia law, and we have seen demonstrations about

this, what is your view of that? Do you think that is going to be

something that will underpin a future Libya? The Libyan people are

a Muslim people. The problem is that people often miss the point

that Sharia law has many meanings. The traditional meaning in Libya is

as a way to honour our Creator and living according to help create a's

wishes for humanity. It is a way, a trajectory, and intentionality. It

is the spirit of the law rather than a set of rules. Went Libyans

long for Sharia law it is a longing for a spiritual path. I believe

that -- When Libyans long for. It is not technical and legalistic. It

should not do is make it should not be judged as such because that will

oversimplify things. The military commander in Tripoli was a member

of the Libyan Islamic fighting grid. That has cauat has cauttention to

be focused on it in Washington. The that they arat they ard about

Islamist influence in the Libyan revolution. -- fighting group.

Libyans will be watchful of everyone and will watch for all

tendencies. I can assure you that three things will never happen in

big because of the diligence of young people. Corruption will never

happen again. The overpowering of one tendency over all will never

happen again and this is because of the will of the young people. They

are very smart and well-informed and up-to-date. They will be able

to watch this revolution to make sure it is not taken over by anyone.

Everyone in Tripoli knows that the liberation of Tripoli happens when

of the people rose up in every street of the capital. It was a

collective effort. Dyno that because of al-Jazeera TV and

particular angles there has been a focus on particular personalities -

- I know that because of. But it was everyone's revolution. Everyone

was a part of this revolution. I have respect for those who fought

so hard for revolution and democracy. We want a unified and

peaceful Libya. You have said you do not think this should be a witch

hunt, purges or cleansing. But they must be justice. Certainly for the

hundreds -- the families of the hundreds of victims found in mass

graves. From the passage you are quoting, I

also said there had to be just as. For giving us can only happen

through consent. -- for giving -- forgiveness. In Islam, it is

encouraged that you forgive but you can only do so after justice. We

have been working with other international partners on

transition issues ended is important that we as soon as

possible put on trial the criminals with blood on their hands. What

about those who are implicated in war crimes by forces loyal to the

National Transitional Council, particularly against sub-Saharan

Africans and black Libyans? Whoever has abused in the other a human

being should be put on trial no matter what their affiliation is.

Anybody who violate human rights should be put on trial even if he

is an official or and governing... There are more then 2,000 people

apparently in detention. How many of those are in detention and

facing trial because of crimes committed on the side of the

National Transitional Council? cannot give you see figures. By do

not know them off the top of my head. I can tell you that several

people have been arrested for committing violations after the

revolution. Revolutionaries have no immunity. Whoever violates human

rights, they will be put on trial. The very quickly, what about the

question of oil and the economic reconstruction of Libya? Will

France and the UK get a lot of contracts as the oil industry is

opened up from your administration? I can tell you that the decision

for awarding future contracts will be with the future elected

government of Libya. There is a general policy of maintaining

contracts, legitimate contracts... Will there be rewards for

supporters of yours? Such decisions will be the decisions of the next

government. My personal opinion: I believe that whoever helped us

should have helped us for the good of humanity and for moral reasons.

I do not think there should be any allotment of contracts based on the

support of the Libyan people. I think this is very important.

Whoever fought for the Libyan people should have done so for the

sake of much higher values than material gain. Think you very much

for joining us. for joining us.

-- Thank you. Overnight we drank some more warm air up from the

Continent. People will head to the seaside in droves. They could be

some mist and low cloud developing, particularly through southern areas

of the north Sea. They could be some low cloud. But a lot of

sunshine to start the day across England. Scotland will start with a

little cloud. It will break during the day. Showers will ease off. A

fine, dry and mild start to the day for Northern Ireland. Some patchy

mist or shallow for a round first thing that it will soon clear. In

the south-west, another glorious start with lots of sunshine around.

The only way is up! Very subtle changes through the day. The

sunshine will come out. It will spread its way to the north-west.

Heading through the night, we will start to see a weather front of

making progress into Northern Ireland and western Scotland. It

will bring outbreaks of rain. The East will be warm. The east of

Scotland and most of England will stay with the warm conditions. On

Friday, it is a repeat performance. Partly cloudy for western Scotland,

outbreaks of rain for Northern Ireland and dry and sunny elsewhere.