Bassma Kodmani - Executive Committee Member, Syrian National Council HARDtalk

claims to stop the violence. Time for HARDtalk.

Ten months after the wave of Arab unrest reached Syria, President

Assad is still in power. Protests continue and there are fears that

the country could be sliding into civil war. But there is little

appetite from foreign powers for military intervention. So what can

the world do to halt the bloodshed? We speak to Bassma Kodmani, a

leading figure in the exiled Syrian opposition. Is it time for other

Welcome. Should Arab troops to be deployed to get -- Syria, and Abbey

leader said some troops should go in and stop the killing. Is that

why you would like to see? Our countries have tried their best so

far. They should acknowledge and admit that Abbott pressure is not

enough. Arab League have no power no means of collation. -- collation.

The Syrian re Syrian row co- operating. It is time for the Arab

League to move at the issue to an international level. They have sent

in monitors but have not centre in any troops. Surely troops could

make a difference? How could it? What kind of mandate will they

have? What would they do? They need to impose some respect or end falls

some decision. Wetter mandate could that be? - a prize to the UN as

well. Not in the same way. It never deployed troops except for one

President in 1976 and that is not a helpful one. When he once people in.

It relies on the co-operation of the regime of. When you say move it

to another level, what do you mean? It should go to the UN that Council.

It has been 11 months since this bloody uprising has been on. We do

not have -- have not had one resolution. The one resolution was

vetoed by China and Russia. That was for further sanctions. You are

not going to get any resolution by calling for something further.

There is no reason to stop trying. We need every decision to condemned

the regime. It is legitimate for China to ask for Russia to take

responsibility is and to decide it is going to continue to support

these regime. They are killing their own people and continue to

say why they should continue. want the regime condemned? More

than that. It is not enough to just condemn it. It is time to say you

need to do what you people are asking you to give. They are

clearly asking for the leader to step down. Basque is asked to step

down and 6,000 people have died for him to step down. -- Bashar al-

Assad. It a warning comes from the Security Council, and if that was

accompanied by measurements, I am not saying a military intervention,

that would be difficult. What are you talking about? What is the

trait you want the UN to put towards Bashar al-Assad? Da had a

long history in dealing with conflicts. It should be taken to

the Security Council and managed by them. Secondly, they have the means

to say within one month from now there would be some serious

measures. What serious measures? warning they could be military

action. If you do not mourn at the regime that the international

community is willing to go all the way, we will not get anywhere.

are you going to get? China and Russia have vetoed further

sanctions. NATO has no intention to intervene in Syria. Western

governments are not keen. You are not going to get that. Doubling

from now think to a NATO intervention, there are other

options. They have not been tried. There are possibilities for the

Security Council to express their will not cover this regime any more.

A warning will have some impact. That should be tried. That time has

not been made so far. I think it should be legitimately tried.

you think it will make a difference? No. They condemned the

action and say within a month we will reconsider the issue. Some --

under some other measures. That at least time for a political

solutions. That will put more pressure on the regime. Could that

political solution include a Bashar al-Assad staying? I don't think so.

6,000 people died for him to go away. There has been so much demand

that has been spilled by his regime. There is no way his regime can stay.

He needs to step down then a transitional period can start. The

first item is for him to step down. Who is calling for it? You are a

member of the Syrian National Council but who do you speak for?

We speak for the people on the street who go out and demonstrate

at the risk of their lives. That is the first group. We also speak for

a much larger community. There are silent groups who dare not come out

because they risked their lives. The NCC says anyone who cause of

fire own help is a traitor. -- foreign help. They are opposition

members, they are a good group of articulate individuals. ACT NCC

does not represent them. -- the people say eight. Beagle kennel get

you and say you are articulate and intelligent but you are not even in

Syria. You were taken out of the country when you're 10. I am there

only to have these people get their message out. We rely on people in

the streets. We rely on social groups. They are signalling they do

want to move but they do won assurances that the regime is about

to go. This is an accusation levelled against the Syrian Council.

We do not claim to represent anybody bus stop we are not elected.

You just said you represent people in Syria. And they should listen to

you. They are putting their heads in this council to get what they

want. They are holding up signs saying the council represents ours.

But that does not mean we represent them in the sense we were elected.

There is no other credibility we can claim besides helping them all.

We are doing what we can to save this country that is being torn

apart by his regime. We would not hold the responsibility of bringing

in foreign trips. After 6,000 dead, who carries a heavy responsibility?

Should the killings continue? member from the Catholic Church

said, despite the unless you must give it Bashar al-Assad a chance.

If the regime falls, it could lead to a civil war and Christians would

be the main victims. The regime has done everything they can to cause a

civil war. They are arming committees and brainwashing

minorities to say they are under threat. No-one is under threat in

this country and all communities will be protected. And by that I

mean constitutional, the legal. cannot make back guarantee. The

Archbishop makes that point. He uses example of Iraq. He says, it

detect all the minorities use probably have more than 50% who are

behind Bashar al-Assad. That is his argument. You take those minorities

and Bashar al-Assad will have the support. These communities are

contacting us and telling us it cannot be this way. This regime

needs to go. They have lost hope that his regime can restore

stability. We know it is gone and it finished. The only way is to see

how best to get out of this with as little damage as possible. Why does

the Archbishop say that? We do have a lot of religious figures who are

tied to his regime in several ways. There is interest and influence. A

third to the regimes like to have religious leaders to keep their

communities under control. It allows them to survive and prosper.

They do this with Sunni leaders as well. Every religious leader is a

very comfortable figure for this regime. We are calling for politics

back into the society. We are calling for equal citizenship. That

has been the motto of every demonstrator. We are one people.

They are all part of this. Muslim Brotherhood have joined

forces under your umbrella. The Archbishop makes the point that he

fears the dominance of Dock -- that dogmatic group. There is no

dominance of one group. We are a coalition. We worked out

compromises and we agree on a beach and saw the future. We have no

problem in agreeing on that future. Why can't we live like the 50s? We

agreed that Constitution Dock. terms of Wight the Syrian National

Council is asking for, we ask the community it is a fill up their

obligation somehow. He does not want any interference that

undermines the 70 of the Syrian people but he also says the

protection of civilians will call for the use of force. It is not

clear what the Syrian National Council once. We want to do

everything to avoid the use of force. It will look realistically

at any political option which will bring us to the resort the people

want which is his regime believing. If that does not happen, this is an

issue for the international community to consider. There is a

responsibility. Seven-seat goes away the moment a regime does not

protect its own people. If the citizens are threatened by the

regime, where his 70? Is it to put What does that mean, she to? The

fundamental success or Arvo well at let's revolution. He were alive

with the free Syria army, who seemed to be increasingly acted.

There was talk of a decision that would surprise the regime and the

whole world. The free Syrian army has been very precious and

protecting peaceful demonstrations. If there is a village or a city

under siege, they come into hand are the one that protect the

population. That is the only protection we have. We have no

international protection. Observers have not been able to operate in

any reasonable way. So what is out there as another option for the

people? They actually worship the soldiers who have defected, and are

protecting neighbourhoods. The discussions would then have not

considered any offensive operations. Their role has been defensive. It

will continue to be defensive. They will protect the people and stop

the army from killing. As a result of your meetings with the free

Syrian army, he produced a statement that talked of

strengthening the capacity of the army, what did this -- what does

that mean? For the defectors from the army are scattered. There isn't

urgent need for them to be held under one chain of command so we do

not have chaos. Are you support and then? Are you finding them?

supporting that means providing them with the beans to communicate,

there is nothing offensive in doing that. You're not providing them

that money? We do not have the money to provide them with arms.

There is no provision to provide them with arms. It is an attempt to

help them in terms of relief. Also to help them improve communications

systems amongst each other. So that they to connect with each other and

we develop some form of an integrated command. Otherwise we

will have ironed groups running across the country with no-one

guiding them. That is a very dangerous situation. An actress

whispery well known in Syria, she was filmed in front of a cheering

crowd as she said, we want the council to prove -- to support the

free Syrian army in a practical way. There is an expectation of you to

go further. To give practical help. That is what we have described. If

they want to strengthen their role and be connected with each other,

then they need those means. If they say to you, we need for money for

arms, we need help co-ordinating this. Added in the July in a

situation where you support them and find their weapons. There are

no military means in an agreement. We will hold them structure

themselves. We know that there will be moderate factions. People are on

their way out of the country. It is an evolving situation. Eventually,

we look to have a zone where they can concentrate. If they cannot be

concentrated in one area, they are defecting and going to neighbouring

countries. The higher we go in the double of military coup defect,

this is happening. This army will be the alternative army. He talked

about a zone, which has been mentioned before. How would a

protected zone work? It is a difficult issue. It beats

strategists and legal experts. That is not for the Syrian National

Council to say what it would look like. Do you want international

help? We definitely want international hub. Are you talking

about a no-fly zone? Nobody is describing it the way it's to be

described. If that is put at the right Abul, the emergency of the

situation. Then we are asking for humanitarian links -- assistance.

This is difficult in a country like Syria, because the movement is

across the country. If you have a zone somewhere and once the border,

then you might need military needs to protected. Are you talking about

a new flies and, that is the least the way a no-fly zone is believed?

We would hunt troops and observers on the ground. It can be a safe

zone protected by military means. This is for the International

Committee and experts to study. all that you want and the weather

to talk, you know that there is a reluctance from the outside world

to get involved. AC Syria and the neighbourhood it is in, they're

terrified of interfering because of the damage it might lead to. It is

difficult to see how you will get what you are asking for. Steve

accept that? Can we asked the world body descended as a message? What

kind of message is up sending to the regime? It can carry on doing

what you're doing and nothing will happen to you. Threatening him by

saying that he should go the way, he will not go away. The accusation

then, is that they get any military. We're not turning military, we're

trying to protect the peaceful nature of the revolution. Where is

the International Committee? It is unwilling to do anything. We have a

very dangerous message that is reaching the regime. The

International Committee as a whole will say that they are finished and

they are not protecting us. We have not spoken of an intervention. We

have not tried that route. Is the International Committee protecting

aside back? I think so. As long as he thinks he Syrian issue cannot

make its way for a serious discussion and no serious measures

will be taken, then why wouldn't he continue? The way that you talk

about the army and the co- ordination July helping with across

the country, we know that there are 40,000 in the army. But 200,000 in

the Syrian army. You talk about more defections. It is building up

to an all-out civil war, is it what you see? No. You are forgetting

other social groups. They are beginning to detect, these are

technocrats from the regime. Key figures in the regime. The business

sector with huge economic interests have support of the regime are now

calling us. They want to know. The bridgeable. Why is it safe to turn

around a gaze to the regime. We need to listen to them carefully.

Even the minorities. They know that the regime is on its way out and

that their future lies with this society. They are part of it and

have always been part of it. could you make them felt confident

that what you're proposing is going to mean a saker Syria for them?

history of Syria it indicates that there has been no massacre against

any minority. We have to put Christian and Muslim and Jewish