Tyler Hamilton - Former professional cyclist HARDtalk

Now on BBC News it's time for For years, it has been one of the

biggest questions in sport. Did Lance Armstrong, the seven-time

winner of cycling's greatest race, the Tour de France, dope? Is the

man who beat cancer to become one of the greatest sporting figures

ever, a cheat? Armstrong has denied wrongdoing. But now a former

teammate and roommate of Armstrong's, Tyler Hamilton, has

produced the most detailed and wounding set of allegations yet. Is

Hamilton self-serving and greedy, as Armstrong insists? Or a shaft of

light on a sport that's been mired Walkern -- welcome it. You have

made enormous waves in sport with the allegations. You began day been

even began at the nets and became a team-mate of Armstrong. This was

back in the 90s. Why did you start? I worked my way up to the highest

level of the sport which is in Europe. You are months away from

racing in a first Tour de France. It started with a small pool. It

was a pillar of testosterone. That is how it started. It started in

the spring of 2007. I take full responsibility for what I do. Back

then, back in the 90s it was more of a culture. You work your way up

to the top. Once you put your foot in the Dora, it was presented to

you by the team. Again it was a choice. It was not a gun to my head.

I do take full responsibility. The responsibility falls on not just on

the outbreak. There are people who are pushing it. -- of the outlay. I

am glad the sport has cleaned up a lot. I am telling the truth now.

says there was no gun to your head and it was part of the culture. But

you do make the decision. Did you have qualms at the time? I had

qualms. My parents taught me the truth between what is right a wrong.

I made the wrong decision. At the time, there was not a lot of

choices to make. It was either a dope or club back home. -- or go

back home of. There was another thing that would boost the amount

of oxygen that carries red blood cells that you had. In your case,

it was boosted from A-level 42 to near 50. It was almost a 20%

increase. How important was that difference to your performance as a

cyclist? It helped tremendously. I had the good results coming in

before I started doping. To compete with the best, it was necessary.

Whether it was 49 or 46. It was a significant boost. I am not of my

results for the doping, for sure. You were already doping by the tiny

met Lance Armstrong. You detained in your memoirs that Alan's

Armstrong himself can seems to these drugs. -- Lance Armstrong.

You talk about an incident in his villa in 1999 When you asked if he

could borrow some. What happened? asked him. I was -- my European-

based was in Spain. We were training in France. I as if I could

have some. He has sung in his refrigerator. He pointed towards

his refrigerator. You say that unlike you, who was rather

concerned about you stored yacht the PLO. His was there in full

sight. -- store your jabs. I would definitely had mine in the back of

the refrigerator, concealing it in water bottles or old Coke cans.

Forgive me for the delay and for cutting across. He did not just can

soon Jobs himself. He also organised drug-taking for the team.

-- drugs. How did that work? He did not really organise it. We were

France. A friend in need. He held out a friend in need. You do say

you -- he organises it. You said you were standing in his kitchen

when he lined up the plan to you and some team-mates. He would pay a

man to follow the tour, carrying a thermos of the drugs. It sounds

like it was organised. If that is what you want to call it. What

would you call it? At that time it was organised finance, my team-mate

and myself. -- for Lance Armstrong. I want to go back to the point of

the culture of the sport back then. The majority of the peloton... If I

opened any of their refrigerators, I would have found doping products.

Armstrong is a target for a lot of what you write in your book. You

talk about in 2001 in the Tour of Switzerland that he told Sue he had

tested positive. But he was remarkably relaxed about the result.

What happened? He told me about the situation right after breakfast. It

was the morning of stage nine or ten. Before I could get to anxious

about their it he told me it was going to be taken care of. What did

he mean by that? I assumed that he was speaking with the governing

body of the sport. Adding there was a meeting afterwards. -- I think

there was. You are suggesting that the governing body was complicit in

covering up a positive drugs test. Absolutely. That is a shocking

allegation. Do you have any proof? I was there when I heard the words

come and it is now. -- out of his mouth. There is plenty of details

in the book that will back that. says he has been tested hundreds of

times and has never been found to have been tested positive. He has

nothing to apologise for. You on the other hand, have tested

positive. Several times. That is the reason you're ashamed and had

you Olympic gold medal stripped. There is a difference between the

two of you. I passed many doping controls over my career. I felt a

couple towards the end of my career but I pass and not there should not

have. Hundreds. The world governing body of cycling has said there has

never been any cover-up in the Tour of Switzerland or the Tour de

France. They also say whether have been problems with doping controls,

does have been tightened up since. How is it so easy for you to invade

the dopers if you say you did get away with it? As I describe in the

box, back then, all the teams had top doctors. They basically gave

you an outline of how you can serve and still pass the test. They gave

you a time line of how long you would test positive for. There was

also an ability to be a weapons- grade liar.Again and again and

again on the fact that you had not taken drugs.To your parents. I

family Tommy really strong values and the biggest thing was honesty.

To call me a liar was the worst thing you could call me. Had he

feel about the fact that he did lie so brazenly? I live for 15 years

and I did a good job of it. The more you like, the better you get

at it. At the time I thought it was the best thing I could do to come

back to the sport after I served my suspension. I did not want to get

anyone else involved. I knew if I told the truth, the whole truth, in

2004, there would be a lot of careers on the line. A lot of

careers. A beastly that was wrong. I wish I came out. You do it -- you

then made the decision to tell a therapy is your entire story. It is

a very controversial steroid. That was when the Federal of Friday's

began their own investigation in 2010. -- federal authorities. What

made you speak with the authorities? That is a great

conjure -- question. I lied for so long. It was almost like the

perfect storms. My old cycling team was being investigated during the

1999 and 2000 season. I were subpoenaed and brought a friend of

the grand jury. That was the first time I told the truth and the whole

trip. The first 15 minutes, the information was trickling out of me

and then it began to poorer. To tell the troops are felt like

�1,000 a weight off my back. I was prepared to go to the grave with

the secret. I was sure of that. I had moved on past cycling. I was

moving on with my life. I was prepared to die with their secrets.

Stanyer from the grandeur, I realise what a burden it had been

funny. Me and my family. After speaking in front of them and

realising how good I felt after was is one I said, I need to tell the

world the truth. I cannot live with this anymore. You say in your book

that you or your lawyer received a series of urgent calls from Lance

Armstrong's legal team, offering their services for free. Where did

you do about that? I did not taking up on his offer. Standing in front

of the grand jury, there was no lawyer next to me. It was just me,

and the grand jury there. It felt great to stand up there and spill

my doubts. We describe this as a classic last -- he described this

as a classic Armstrong move of. What did you mean by that? I think

obviously he wanted been to be part of his legal team. Number one added

nothing but was ethical. Number two Adin not plan online anymore. I did

not want any part of that. -- I did not want to rely anymore. Let's

talk about be encountered you had with Lance Armstrong just before

you began your disclosures to the US federal investigation. Would

He caught me by surprise. He found out which restaurant I was in. I

was in Aspen, Colorado. He intimidated me. He had his friends

around him. He cornered me. He was not so pleased with me. He wasn't

just not pleased with you, he said that when you were on the witness

stand TV is going to tear you apart, make you look like an idiot and

maker life a living hell. This is a man you continued to describe as a

friend. He is not a friend anymore. He is an old friend of mine. Lance

Armstrong himself has denied any wrongdoing. He has said, even after

the US anti-doping Agency decided that they were going to ban him for

life, he said "I am finished with this nonsense. I refused to

participate in a process which is so one-sided and unfair." What do

you think should happen to him? Should he be stripped of his seven

Tour de France idols? Firstly, I would like to point out that I lied

for a long time. He is denying the accusations and, in a strange way,

I get it. I understand. That was my immediate reaction when I was

accused. Hopefully some day he comes out and tells the truth. I

think it would be great for him. Speaking from my own experience, it

is hard to keep those secrets. has given no indication that he

wants to come out and be clean, as you say. He insists that he has

nothing to apologise for. The question was, do you think he

should have the seven Tour de France titles removed from him?

Back in those days, the majority of their Peloton was doping to some

degree. Maybe it is best to leave it blank. It is not for me to

decide. It was a dark time for Cycling that we went through.

wonder, because of that, just how much remorse you feel. In your book,

you wrote "you can call me a cheetah and adore par until the

cows come home but, in a race where everyone had equal opportunity, I

played the game and I played it well." That does not sound that the

words of a man who thinks he has nothing to apologise for. I feel

awful for what I did. I feel awful for what they did. Lying to your

parents for 15 years, telling them six months ago of the real truth

was an awful experience. It is something I hope no athlete ever

has to go through again. I feel terrible about what I did. I

understand people will probably hate me or dislike me for the rest

of my life but I am doing the right thing now and that is the most

important thing, telling the truth. I really hope that this is the

foundation of the future of cycling. I want them to go back and have

transparency. It will make for a clear has bought in the future. --

cleaner. I want to ask you about that. You said you do it for 15

years. Why should we believe you now? Lance Armstrong has said

you're greedy and self-serving. Why should we believe that Tyler

Hamilton is telling the truth? You're just going to have to

believe me. For a lot of people, they need to read the book and then

they can decide themselves. There is a lot of evidence. Everything is

backed up by more than one source. It is the truth, that is all I can

save. Nothing but the truth. I worked for it -- or it for two hard

years. His Cycling cleaner now? Absolutely. I believe the first

place time from a difficult section last year would have been 45th

place ten years ago. Things have slowed down drastically. Some of

the people involved and cycling at the top level are people that you

yourself have said have serious questions to answer for. For

example, your team director, he said that she was a man who was a

cyclist. You said he doped as a team manager as well as a cyclist.

You said he'd encourage you to take drug transfusions. -- blood

transfusions. He is still the manager of one of the Tour de

France's big teams. How do you square that with your contention

that cycling is cleaner now? I said it is a lot cleaner but it is not

perfect it. There are still bad apples and a bunch. There still

needs to be some ailing out of people's pasts. He is one of them.

I think he needs to be more transparent, not necessarily leave

the sport. I understand his line. It has been his line for a long,

long time. When was the last time you spoke to Lance Armstrong?

the restaurant in Aspen, Colorado, about 18 months ago. He surprised

me. When he surprised you and, as you say, he intimidated you, what

was your reaction at the time? was surprised. There was a federal

investigation going on at the time. It was not in either a far best

interests to be speaking. -- either of power. I was not comfortable. It

was a crowded restaurant and his voice was very loud. It was very

uncomfortable. Back asked several times to either take it into a

quiet room or go outside and talk about it. He did not want that.

you not at all sympathetic to the idea that whatever Lance Armstrong

did or did not do as a cyclist, and, as they say, he insists he has

nothing to apologise for, this is a man who is a figure of tremendous

inspiration to hundreds of millions of people around the world. He has

got that purchase some people's imagination. He has raised hundreds

of millions of dollars for his charity because he can introduce

himself as the man who beat cancer and won the Tour de France seven

times. Is it right that he should be brought down in this time -- in

this way by people such as you? That is not something that I should

be answering. What I can say, he is one of the best athletes I have

ever met, period. Incredible. Incredible. Depending on how people

want to precede him in the future, that is not up to me. This is my

story. -- perceive. I told my story and I wrote about it. Add the

better for doing it. Do you think Lance Armstrong are needed to go?

At the time, to keep up with everybody, yes. The majority of the

peloton where doping. I said a few minutes ago, ten years later, the

Times are the lot slower. The speeds of the peloton back then

were so incredibly fast that I can imagine keeping up with the best

without it. When you get on your bike now, do you think to yourself,

"Thank goodness for the extraordinary career that I had."

Or do you think to yourself, "I wish I had imagined an anonymous,

back of the peloton cyclist who at least they did clean"? I wish I did

it clean. It was a great experience over all. All the travelling. I got

to see the world for ten years in Europe. It was a sad part of my

life, really, looking back. This story, the book, it is a sad story.

I am proud of coming out and telling the truth. I am really

proud of that. It is a sad, tragic story. It is very tragic. I spoke

to an 11-year-old athlete last year, I asked him what he wanted to do

but he grew up, he said he wanted to become a professional cyclist.

It made me sick to my stomach. I don't want him to have to go

through, if he gets to that level, to go through the same choices I