Hoshyar Zebari - Foreign Minister, Iraq HARDtalk

Foreign Minister is here on a visit to London. He said he wanted to

rehabilitate Iraq's image after the fall of Saddam Hussein. But now

sectarian violence in Iraq is arguably worse than ever before and

is overlapping with sectarianism in neighbouring Syria. The Shia led

government in Baghdad is accused of discriminating against the Sunni

minority and of being too close to Iran. Is Iraq in danger of once

to be with you. Thank you. How worried are you that Iraq may return

to civil war? There has been many speculation in the media. This is

from people who have not visited the country. They are jumping to these

conclusions. Being the Minister for the last ten years, the longest

serving civil servants in the country, I do not see Iraq is

sliding into civil war. Or even sectarian war. Really? Have the

British government raised any concerns? They have. Iraq is facing

some major security, political, regional challenges. But the country

is not going into civil war or sectarian war. Really? April and May

unknown, 2500 people killed. You can get blown up anywhere. I agree with

you. Recently, that has been an increase of violence and the number

of innocent casualties a terrorist groups. This is partly due to the

failure of our security service to provide better security for the

citizens. But partly also because of the spillover from Syria into Iraq.

The continuous crisis in Syria. are acknowledging there is a problem

but it is not sectarian violence. There are those who disputed. It is

not just commentators. The UN human rights chief, Francesco Motta. This

is what he told us. The sectarian viciousness of the attack is worse

than the 2006 and 2007 civil war. It is becoming more sectarian. People

are being targeted as they leave the places of worship. I disagree with

the UN official. That has been an increase in the numbers, and that

has been tension between Sunni, Kurds, Shia. But no one is pushing

the envelope. No one is pushing things to a confrontation. The

cinema people have been part of a demonstration but it has not led to

an open conflict. When he says you run is on the cusp of a civil

war... Have you spoken to him? will speak with him when I go back

to Baghdad. I will give him our point of view. Nevertheless, we add

-- we disagree with that assessment. In Iraq, there are many tribes. The

Iraqi have tested the school jeers of sectarian and civil war in 2005

and 2007. -- disgorges. There is in a self restraint by the politician,

the religious leaders, they are discouraging violence. That is why

there are a number of restraints. Economically, the country, this has

not been reported, has been doing very well. Iraq is the world's

deferred biggest oil producer but they cannot buy electricity for a

fast number of the population. You say that you see it is a problem of

the Xtree must. -- Xtree must. There is accusation of Sydney market

shakes of shielding some militants. -- Sunni leaders. There is a danger

they may take arms on those who attack them. The production of

electricity has been increased. Just to answer about. I agree with you.

The cinema have grievances. -- cinema people. -- Sunni. About being

marginalised. The Ba'ath Party was the party of Saddam Hussein. He was

a Sunni. He favoured the Sunni people. This is happening in Libya,

this is happening in Tunisia, even in Egypt. It is not something new.

That law has been revised. The good thing about Iraq is that Iraq has

established a legal constitutional framework for a addressing its

problems. It is through dialogue, and not through conflict. It is a

positive thing. Do you think so? Samia Nakhoul sounds like he is

going for a military solution. has not -- there is not gone to a

military solution. He is always trying to find accommodation. The

recent local election was an indication of the viability of the

political system. Both the Sunni and Shia participated. We have a general

election next year, people are anticipating that they can change

their governments. We do not doubt there is a process going on. Iraq

has 60% Arab Shia, 20% Arab Sunni, and Kurds, 20%. It is a rich mosaic.

The Sunni people feel marginalised. Samia Nakhoul wrote an extensive

piece. She says many Iraqis only have one hope. There are grievances.

They need to be addressed. The government is fully aware of those

grievances. There is an ongoing dialogue between the government, the

Shia, the Sunni. The Sunni people have been in demonstrations.

Thousands out on the streets. They say they are fed up with

second-class letters. Neither the government nor they have resorted to

escalate tension. We have talked about the Sunni people. What about

the Shia people? They have also been subjected to the horrific attacks.

We hear regular occurrences of bombings. Again, there is the fear

that Shia militias, as they were involved in the civil war, may come

out again if they see themselves under attack. Are you concerned

about that? They formed is militia to defend the operating. We have a

golden rule in Iraqi. Since 2003 onwards. Whenever we have political

unity, we have better security. When we have political divisions amongst

yourselves as politicians, it is reflected negatively on the

security. Here is Iraq's dilemma. It has to find the balance between the

two. We have a genuine political government which is inclusive. That

has to be an inclusive government in Iraq. Since Iraq is in a

transitional period, as a society, there are diehard groups like Al

Qaeda, Asa'ib Ahl al-Haq. You are dismissing them. You say we have

major concerns, we are ready for it and we are ready to protect our

people. What is going on now is what led to the violence in 2006.

mainstream Shia religious establishments... The political

leaders are not encouraging this. These are minorities. They could

destabilise the country. They could not ignite... You do not think so?I

do not think so. Al Qaeda has tried all these years to ignite a war.

This is the aim. I want to ask you, you also have the conflict in Syria.

It is sectarian. You have the Alawite minority in power. We hear

reports that Iraqis from the Shia and Sunni committees are going to

fight. -- communities. Unfortunately, Syria has become a

battleground or jihadist. Iraq fears this will turn into a sectarian

dimension. The intervention of Hezbollah recently, the call for

Jihad by the Sunni clerics, the response by some Shia militia also.

But none of this, from the Iraqi government point of view, means it

is supported link road or censure by the government. -- supported or

sanctioned. Are you neutral?We are. We are like Geneva. You say you are

neutral. The transport Minister has said about Iraqi Shia, he is a Shia,

they go to Baghdad they Beirut. He says, do you want us to sit idle by

the Shia being attacked was the Americans and the rest are helping

the cinema people with weapons and money? What do you expect, he says.

Why would he make that statement? you read the entire statement, he is

not for. The leader of Al Qaeda? When they call for the Sunni people

to go for Jihad, there would be a response from the Shia. They are

sanctioned as a response by the Iraqi government to go to Syria?

government does not encourage or support or are sanctioned... That is

encouragement. No.I am not aware of any groups or Iraqis who have gone

with the support of the government. Went the special envoy to Iraq

briefed the UN Security Council in July, he said the escalating

violence in Iraq cannot reset but -- separated with the conflict in

Syria, what do you think of the consequences? Iraqis the country

that will be most affected are the continuation of the Syria conflict.

Both geographically, socially. And geopolitically. That is way we are

watching with great concern. With a lack of international community or

Security Council action, this conflict is going to continue for

some time. Do you think the move by the European Union to designate

Hezbollah as a terrorist organisation is going to discourage

organisation is going to discourage the elliptical wing from I am not

judging. This is for the European Union. Any group committing

terrorism or acts of terrorism, especially in Europe. Definitely

this will lead Hezbollah to escalate this. That will be a response to

this. Escalate in what way?I don't know. Hezbollah is for convenient.

-- for convenient. -- pro-Iranian. How wise is that? Now there is

support. Iran has influence in Iraq. He is not a run's man. Really? Can

you say that? I can see that confidently. She is not Iran's man.

What do you say to the senior Shia politician, can I tell you what he

says? People might not know. He leads the coalition in Parliament.

He says that they control the political decisions. Not to that

extent. They do have influence with most of the Iraqi political leaders

and the government. The current Iraqi government is independent. It

follows its own national interest. It wants to build good relations

with Iran. Can I just pick you up? You are foreign policy chief for

Iraq. You know that Iran has been transferring weapons to the side

government in Damascus through Iraqi airspace. You know the US Secretary

of State said in March that the price with Iran were helping to

sustain Bashar al-Asssad and the resume. It does not sound like you

are vetoing what Iran is doing. has been going on for some time.

Let's be honest about it. It is for the use of Iraqi air space. We have

taken note of American and European concerns. We have conducted a number

of searches. We did not find lethal material. Why can't you stop the

weapons going? We have told them that we don't want them to use a

good relations with us to embarrass us. Technically, in terms of the

Iraqi air force, the defence, Iraq is not capable of stopping this.

Even to stop what happened in March, tactically we do not have that

technology. The Iraqi ambassador in Washington told Congress what you

just said, that the air defences are too big and not integrated. -- to

reach. Do you want this? If you had those, for the sake of argument,

would you use them against the Iranian planes? We did protect our

sovereignty against any intrusion. We will deny anybody the use of our

air space. You would like to have that? We are seeking to buy them

from the United States. We want to boost our defences. You are an Iraqi

Kurd and you know the government have been quoted as saying in the

past that if Iraq got the F-16s, they would be worried that Baghdad

might use them against the Kurds in the future. If the cards are part of

the decision-making, there is no way. That is the source of the

worry. Otherwise, nobody would object. Is this an example to show

yet again that the tensions between the semis and this year 's and

occurrence and the regional government and Baghdad, in the old

days, after the invasion, we spoke about the breakup of Iraq. Isn't

that back on the agenda? So far nobody is embracing the idea of

dividing the country. Everybody is benefiting from the wealth of Iraq.

130 billion a year. On the increase. Protection Ullrich five to 6 million

barrels a day. With the political system, this idea has not been

popular, to be honest with you. The federal system is constitutionally

ratified. Recently, the tension between the Kurds and the

government... Over the disputes with the troops? Nothing has happened.

There was a cabinet meeting. He went to Baghdad. They were able to

resolve this. When you had your constitution in 2005, the Arabs in

Iraq boycotted the system. They are looking at what you have in the

North. They will want something as autonomous as that. That idea has

been floated to create a region for the Sydney provinces. There is a way

for them if they want to do that. They could follow constitutional

steps to get to that. You have been Foreign Minister for ten years. He

said he would represent the people of Iraq, not just one ethnic group.

Can you say that dream has not unravelled my? When you look at that

on a regular basis. I am supporting what the constitution says about

Iraq. It is a federal democratic country. That is our philosophy.

Iraq is free of sanctions, international sanctions. In that

sense, no, the foreign policy of Iraq is not ready. You said you

wanted to rehabilitate the image of Iraq after the fall of Saddam

Hussein. Look at the way that Iraq is seen today. You have seen that

the violence, the national co- existence is threatened. There is

sectarianism in neighbouring Syria which is argued with Betty I want is

going on in Iraq. -- arguably abetted. You can't say you have

succeeded. We have not succeeded. We must do a better job and leaving

behind the headlines and the TV images about the country. If you