Nelson Mandela - Former President of South Africa HARDtalk

decisions on what we pay for. Now onto it be seen News, a special

HARDtalk from the archives, an interview with Nelson Mandela from

1997. Nelson Mandela, the first black

president of South Africa and a figure of towering moral authority

has died. His extraordinary life has been remembered and celebrated, not

just in South Africa, but around the world. Ten years ago, I interviewed

President Mandela for a special edition of HARDtalk, when he was in

Britain for the Commonwealth conference. We told about his life,

his love and his earliest days in South Africa's liberation trial.

his love and his earliest days in South Africa's liberation trial

You statesman of renown. Perhaps one of the most highly respected

politicians on the planet. I am just an old man, I thank you. Reading

your book, you talk about an early light as they heard ball it in the

rolling hills. `` and heard boy. rolling hills. `` and heard boy

When you look out, is this what you thought would happen? It is

collective leadership. Right from the early days of joining the

organisation, the problems of liberation, and of returning the

power of liberation... Can never be the achievement of a single

individual. Essentially, the type of problems that can be addressed, it

is through teamwork. Of people who understand that a collective effort

is absolutely necessary. He is a man, I was with him. We were

from the Youth League together. I have all respect. If they clashed

with them I know I was in the wrong because he was such a perfect

gentleman and so a never thought of me being a president of the country

because I was satisfied and satisfied with the principle of

connection and also I had a great deal of respect for Oliver Tambo

because he was a highly gifted person. You described a as by ``

diabolical. Can you remember back to a time when you felt the full force

of apartheid. I don't wind as the politician but personally. `` don't

mean as a politician. How humiliating apartheid has been in

the past. I spent 4.5 years as an accused in court and mighty economic

position was completely undermined. The fact that I was sent to jail for

life, I spent 27 years the. There are things that affected me, and I

had experiences. You were put away for 27 years, 27 of the best years

of your life. What is the cost of that incarceration to Nelson

Mandela, the man? I would like to thank our bit and not in terms of

cost, I like to think in terms of the advantages which I gained from

being, for serving a long sentence. The ability to sit down and to think

about your past. The present. The future. The ability to be able to

see yourself in action in the past and the mistakes and weaknesses

which you committed and witnesses in the course of your work and she look

back. The excitement for the future, and I found it very

rewarding. But look at the sacrifice, wouldn't you say your

family life suffered, your marriage is offered? No, but I am not the

only one. There were thousands of people in similar and even worse

positions. At least I made a lot of friends and when I was in jail, many

people inside and outside the country supported my family. But if

I may say so, as a married man, the thought that I couldn't provide,

I may say so, as a married man, the thought that I couldn't provide

care and tendered to the people that I love, would fetch me an

enormously. It must have been horrible for 27 years. Oh yes. This

was one of the things. My wife, Winnie, was without security. She

was undergoing humiliation, persecution by the regime. My

children also subjected to such persecution. They go to school and

the police, look, he is an African child, he has no rights in the

school. I have watched you these last few years and South Africa, the

last few years and South Africa the way you build bridges, the way you

are able to see people, the way they work, you did so much, but there is

one man and a sea that chemistry. `` I don't see that chemistry. The

click. That is not a correct position.

He is a businessman. He was criticised and I got up and they

said, he has made a lot of mistakes, some of them fundamental as all of

us have done. He was never forgetting the role he played in

this country. He ensured that he mobilises his own lobby to join the

process of peaceful transformation. Had it not been for the contribution

that he made, the process of transformation in this country would

have taken... Then all the more difficult. Whether over camp or not,

I must acknowledge what he has achieved, the contribution he has

made and I can say with all humility. You made reconciliation

one of the central themes of your presidency, your presidency and

South Africa. The youth feel the white people of South Africa have

travelled the same distance as the black people ? `` do you feel. If

the white people and this country were not travelling on the same

distance, we have achieved it because of the cooperation we have

got from all of them. I am telling you about specifically the fact that

I was able to build, use your resources, old schools, `` build. I

am talking about as individuals. am talking about as individuals

Secondly, we have now posted a 13 Secondly, we have now posted a 13

separate education departments, we have one Education Department. We

have opened the doors of learning to everyone. The whites have been very

educated at losing this. We had 11 languages on the same races. Where

does this idea come from that the whites have not made the same

sacrifices that we have? And you consider this, you have done

everything you can to reconcile this country, this country that has the

more divided and yesterday it any other we can think of. You have done

that with great flair and success. There are some people who say that

was the easy part, that you are leaving for your successor, the hard

business of redistribution, the hard business of taking from one group

and giving to the other. Well, that is a misconception. To imagine that

I was acting alone, we must get rid of this. I have on countless

occasions said I have been working with a team and in that team that

our men and women who are more capable than I, and I say this not

from the point of view of any humility. I am stating a fact. Some

of them are more capable than I am and what I do is not something that

a thought of. It is something that we discussed and the leadership of

that will remain behind. They have been in the centre of what is

happening in this country. I also admired my audiences. Especially

after my Nobel Peace Price. `` Nobel Peace Prize. Nobody knew of Oliver

Tambo. He disappeared. Oliver Tambo emerged and put the Congress in a

position they had never reached before. It became a movement and we

were able to protect South Africa. He has done very well. He has been a

disciple of Oliver Tambo and a don't doubt that. If he is elected, as

president of ANC and the decision lies with them, we don't have

successes but it appears to me that this is one of the most talented

people who could easily bring about a lot of respect for the position of

the presidency. I don't know anyone better qualified than himself to

occupy this position. I said on several occasions that the fact of

the President of South Africa... Now the President of South Africa.. Now

a ceremonial president and he has done very, very well because I am

pushing important duties to him. done very, very well because I am

pushing important duties to him. It sounds like a blessing. Last in the

Africa. The very month that your people found the freedom, the people

of Rwanda were caught in the midst of genocide. Which is the real

Africa? We must not exaggerate. It has taken place in Europe throughout

history. It has taken place, it is just taking place in Yugoslavia. You

just taking place in Yugoslavia You have the case of Pol Pot in Asia.

Thousands of people were slaughtered. And you have had a

clash between Russia and Chechnya, in which a lot of people died. We

are having the same thing in Afghanistan. And there have been

disturbances in places like India and elsewhere. So, these problems

are not confined to Africa. And Rwanda is a comparatively small

country in relation to the rest of Africa. Africa is doing very well.

They are addressing their problem. They have now rediscovered, with the

annihilation of colonies and that racism, African Unity. It embraces

all countries. That organisation has produced eminent people, like the

Secretary general. These are outstanding statesman, not only in

relation to Africa but in relation to the entire world. And they are

addressing such problems as happened in Rwanda. They persisted, for

example, in ensuring that very big continent has now been given a

government that is democratic. When you talked of and African

Renaissance, can you really call it that when Nigeria isn't democratic,

where there has been a coup d'etat. Is that really a Renaissance? It

depends who you are and how you look at events. If they are going to pick

up isolated events, and now, the positive developments that are

taking place, you can be concerned. But if you look at the entire

canvas, then you will have no other conclusion than to say, Africa is

rising to its challenges. President Mandela, you are coming towards the

end of your presidency of your party and later the country. How do you

want to be remembered? It is better to leave that to the public. It

would be arrogant for me to say, to leave that to the public. It

would be arrogant for me to say, this is how I want to be remembered.

Throughout my life, I have made my mistakes. I hope I have made

achievements as well. But it is for the world to decide how they will

remember me. And the basis of my record `` on the basis. It would be

arrogant for me to say, this is how I want to be remembered. Will you

miss the struggle, the politics When I am dead or now? When you step

down. Given that I will still be participating. I will remember a

member of the ANC in whatever service they want before. So, I will

be right there, except I won't have any office. Now, for the future You

are a man in love? As I told you, we don't discuss these things in

public, from the point of view of my culture. But it is wonderful for

me, as anybody else, to be in love. Mr Mandela, thank you very much for

talking to us. You are welcome. Things are turning a little bit

milder. For most of us, the weekend will be dry but cloudy. It will be a

drab affair but it won't be as stormy as it has been over the past

48 hours. The low pressure is well away from the UK. Bringing stormy

conditions to other parts of northern Europe. This warm front is

moving in. 12 degrees in Milford Haven on Friday. We still have the

cold air across the extreme north`east. Minus in Shetland on

Friday. Still cold here. There could be a few centimetres of snow in

places. The risk of icy conditions in parts of northern England and

Scotland. Still little bit of snow to come in the extreme north`east

during Saturday but I'm up for most places, it will be great. With a

little bit of