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more rockets have been launched by Hamas. Now on BBC News, it's time | :00:00. | :00:17. | |
for HardTalk. Welcome to HARDtalk with me, Zeinab Badawi. It is out | :00:18. | :00:24. | |
with the old and in with the new at the European Union as EU member | :00:25. | :00:27. | |
states conduct the usual bout of horse trading following elections | :00:28. | :00:29. | |
for the European Parliament. They are selecting a new set of | :00:30. | :00:32. | |
officials, including the key post of Commission President. The choice of | :00:33. | :00:35. | |
EU insider Jean`Claude Juncker has led to a bitter and public row | :00:36. | :00:38. | |
between the UK and other member states. How far has this damaged the | :00:39. | :00:43. | |
reputation of the EU? And what does it tell us about the future | :00:44. | :00:48. | |
direction of the European Union? My guest today is one of the EU's most | :00:49. | :00:50. | |
experienced politicians, Sweden's Foreign Minister, Carl Bildt. | :00:51. | :01:06. | |
Carl Bildt, welcome to HARDtalk. Thanks very much. New Commission | :01:07. | :01:13. | |
being chosen to take over later this year, is there a clear direction for | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
the EU, though? I think there's a clear direction and that will be set | :01:19. | :01:21. | |
more firmly in the process that we are now in the middle of. What is | :01:22. | :01:25. | |
not really catching the headlines over the last few weeks is the heads | :01:26. | :01:29. | |
of states of goverments have certain priorities for the Union in the next | :01:30. | :01:33. | |
five years. That is the important thing, a lot of the media is centred | :01:34. | :01:36. | |
on personalities but there is a process underway considering | :01:37. | :01:41. | |
policies. We do face major policy challenges in Europe. You need to | :01:42. | :01:48. | |
connect with the citizens. Italy has just taken over the rotating | :01:49. | :01:51. | |
presidency of the EU and its Prime Minister, Matteo Renzi, is quoted in | :01:52. | :01:55. | |
the press as saying he is fed up with the EU saying acting like an | :01:56. | :01:58. | |
old, boring aunt and he wants the EU to have a soul as well as rules. | :01:59. | :02:05. | |
Among your strategic priorities, have you got some soul? I hope we've | :02:06. | :02:11. | |
got some soul but I am more concerned, with due respect to | :02:12. | :02:14. | |
Italy, but I am more concerned about results. You can talk about souls | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
and feelings and emotions but the people of Europe want results coming | :02:19. | :02:20. | |
out of European integration and cooperation. We face major | :02:21. | :02:27. | |
challenges. We know that the nation states are too small to master those | :02:28. | :02:33. | |
challenges by themselves. We must work together. But the workshop is | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
not just a process and personalities and all that, it is the ability to | :02:38. | :02:40. | |
produce policies that affect the outcome of the lives of our nations | :02:41. | :02:47. | |
and our citizens. That's a fairly tall order. Do you accept that this | :02:48. | :02:53. | |
is really... It has been a difficult time for the EU, the pro` EU parties | :02:54. | :02:57. | |
do have a majority in the parliament, but nevertheless, we saw | :02:58. | :02:59. | |
a rise in the Eurosceptic protest vote, and particularly in the UK | :03:00. | :03:02. | |
with UKIP, the UK Independence Party, and in France, with the | :03:03. | :03:05. | |
National Front, to the extent that the Prime Minister there, Manuel | :03:06. | :03:08. | |
Valls, said that the parliamentary election result was a shock and | :03:09. | :03:10. | |
earthquake that all of Europe's leadership must respond to. Are they | :03:11. | :03:13. | |
listening, do they really acknowledge the scale of what | :03:14. | :03:31. | |
happened? I hope that we all do. We need to acknowledge that national | :03:32. | :03:34. | |
election results are affected by national factors, the French | :03:35. | :03:36. | |
election result can't be explained without looking at the national | :03:37. | :03:38. | |
politics and national problems of France, and the same to a certain | :03:39. | :03:42. | |
extent in the UK. That being said, we are in the process where a lot of | :03:43. | :03:46. | |
people asking where are we heading, what have you done, what can Europe | :03:47. | :03:52. | |
give? But in addition we are in this always somewhat messy process every | :03:53. | :03:55. | |
five years of selecting the key personalities in setting up European | :03:56. | :04:02. | |
institutions. We are in a somewhat difficult process, that's obvious. | :04:03. | :04:08. | |
You've heard that lesson. We saw the jump from 31 to 48 in Eurosceptic | :04:09. | :04:11. | |
members of the European Parliament from 2009, the last election, that | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
is accepted? I think when you look at France, it is national reasons to | :04:17. | :04:22. | |
a large extent. That being said, any election, any democratic election in | :04:23. | :04:24. | |
any country, certainly in the EU, does send a message and it's | :04:25. | :04:27. | |
important for the politicians to listen. The message is we want a | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
Europe that delivers results, results that are relevant to us. | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
When you were Prime Minister in Sweden, you signed the treaty that | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
allowed Sweden to join the EU in 1994. You're recognised as an EU | :04:42. | :04:52. | |
enthusiast. What would you, Carl Bildt, say to EU citizens who | :04:53. | :04:55. | |
perhaps have lost a bit of faith in the European project? How best can | :04:56. | :04:58. | |
that enthusiasm be captured? If we look at the 20`year record of | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
Sweden, and I had to do that the other day, looking at the figures | :05:03. | :05:05. | |
and estimates we did at that time, have we delivered on those? We have | :05:06. | :05:08. | |
had better economic development than we thought. We have had better | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
development of Europe as a whole in terms of peace, stability and | :05:13. | :05:15. | |
security than I thought at the time due to the single market and | :05:16. | :05:18. | |
enlargement and other factors. For quite some time it was spectacularly | :05:19. | :05:24. | |
good decades for Europe. We now face a more challenging situation, both | :05:25. | :05:27. | |
in terms of the economic challenges and the rapidly changing global | :05:28. | :05:29. | |
economy with new technologies and new actors and all those things. And | :05:30. | :05:35. | |
a geopolitical situation that is truly demanding. Look at Russia, | :05:36. | :05:39. | |
look at what is happening to our south. We clearly need to work | :05:40. | :05:44. | |
together in a more coherent and clear way. However, in June you were | :05:45. | :05:50. | |
quoted as saying in a speech that the main challenges in the last five | :05:51. | :05:53. | |
years in the European Union have been economic ones. Looking ahead | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
for the next five years it is political challenges in the East, | :06:00. | :06:02. | |
fairly obviously, and also in the West, fairly obviously, is what you | :06:03. | :06:05. | |
said. You see the challenges ahead being political ones, do you? | :06:06. | :06:14. | |
Primarily. We have gone through a period of five`years where we have | :06:15. | :06:17. | |
had financial challenges and debt and all that kind of thing. Looking | :06:18. | :06:20. | |
ahead it is primarily political challenges. Really, 26 people out of | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
work in the EU? We have set policies in motion that should be somewhat | :06:25. | :06:26. | |
more effective, we shouldn't lose sight of that. We have Russia in the | :06:27. | :06:37. | |
East using military power in a way that was unthinkable to most of us a | :06:38. | :06:40. | |
couple of years ago. We have a Middle East that is about to blow up | :06:41. | :06:44. | |
more or less if you look at Iraq these very days. We have uncertainty | :06:45. | :06:48. | |
in the UK, where the UK is heading, that is also affecting the entire | :06:49. | :06:51. | |
calculus. We have huge political challenges. It's interesting, as I | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
said, 26 million unemployed across the EU, and you have some recovering | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
in some cases, but it is weak and faltering, is what the ECB, the | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
European Central Bank, is saying. And Marcel Fratzscher, President of | :07:05. | :07:07. | |
the German Institute for Economic Research, says Europe is stuck in a | :07:08. | :07:10. | |
deep slump and facing the prospect of many more years of stagnation and | :07:11. | :07:13. | |
high unemployment, is what he said on July the 4th. Should you | :07:14. | :07:25. | |
reconsider what you said about the fact the main challenges are | :07:26. | :07:28. | |
political and not economic? Some of these challenges are political of | :07:29. | :07:31. | |
nature. Jean`Claude Juncker, as you mention, likely to be the next | :07:32. | :07:34. | |
Commission president, he said one of his priorities was to deepen the | :07:35. | :07:37. | |
single market and go to the digital single market, that is clearly an | :07:38. | :07:42. | |
area where we need to do more. We can generate more growth and more | :07:43. | :07:46. | |
employment in European economies if we created a truly single market | :07:47. | :07:53. | |
also for the new digital economy. We haven't done that. Whether that is | :07:54. | :07:55. | |
economic or political, you can debate, but it needs to be done and | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
it's on the agenda. You bring up Jean`Claude Juncker, likely to be | :08:00. | :08:02. | |
the new Commission president. 18 years as Prime Minister of | :08:03. | :08:04. | |
Luxembourg, very much an EU insider. Is he the right person to lead the | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
European Commission at this time when you have these massive economic | :08:09. | :08:14. | |
problems? Luxembourg has the highest standard of living in the whole EU. | :08:15. | :08:19. | |
They have. Jean`Claude Juncker is an experienced politician, he has been | :08:20. | :08:21. | |
around for quite some time. That could be considered a big asset but | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
it could also be considered a disadvantage. The commission is an | :08:26. | :08:37. | |
important institution and the president is an important | :08:38. | :08:40. | |
personality but he is not the head of Europe. He is a top civil | :08:41. | :08:44. | |
servant. They have the right of initiative. It is a key post. It is, | :08:45. | :08:50. | |
but the key decisions can't be taken without the different governments | :08:51. | :08:52. | |
being involved. The Council of Ministers. I hope he is. Sweden had | :08:53. | :09:00. | |
some reservations. On the process, not on the personality. He is an | :09:01. | :09:05. | |
experienced man but I would like to stress that it is a team job, very | :09:06. | :09:08. | |
much it will be dependent on the other personalities around him. We | :09:09. | :09:17. | |
need a leadership team for Europe that is looking to the future, that | :09:18. | :09:20. | |
is connected with the different parts of Europe, that is | :09:21. | :09:22. | |
representative of Europe and that can work together. It is not a one | :09:23. | :09:28. | |
man show. Can you set the record straight? We heard reports that | :09:29. | :09:32. | |
Sweden was a bit lukewarm about Jean`Claude Juncker. Your Prime | :09:33. | :09:34. | |
Minister, Fredrik Reinfeldt, had that meeting at his residence | :09:35. | :09:37. | |
outside Stockholm in June, Angela Merkel was there, Mark Rutte, the | :09:38. | :09:40. | |
Dutch Prime Minister, and David Cameron, the British Prime Minister, | :09:41. | :09:42. | |
who made his opposition to Jean`Claude Juncker extremely | :09:43. | :09:51. | |
public. We all thought Sweden was not so keen on Juncker, was that the | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
case? It was lukewarm on the process. Not the man? Not entirely | :09:56. | :10:00. | |
enthusiastic about that. The second thing about that meeting was we were | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
not too happy with the focus on personalities, we wanted a focus on | :10:05. | :10:06. | |
the policies. The different personalities... The policies are | :10:07. | :10:09. | |
set by the governments and by the institutions. We wanted a proper | :10:10. | :10:17. | |
policy debate on which are the priorities of the EU as we look | :10:18. | :10:26. | |
ahead. Out of that meeting between the Prime Minister of the UK, the | :10:27. | :10:29. | |
Chancellor of Germany, the Prime Minister of the Netherlands and | :10:30. | :10:31. | |
Sweden, came effectively the decision that was taken on the five | :10:32. | :10:34. | |
strategic priorities for the EU over the coming five years. You might say | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
it is a fluffy document, as these documents clearly are, but it does | :10:39. | :10:41. | |
set the direction in policies. With due respect even to Jean`Claude | :10:42. | :10:43. | |
Juncker more important than personalities. You're not saying | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
what Frederik Reinfeldt said about Jean`Claude Juncker? I was not at | :10:49. | :10:56. | |
that meeting. But you must have known. Clearly the priorities are | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
the policies. On personalities, I would say the leadership team. We | :11:01. | :11:04. | |
aren't there yet. We have taken... We are in the process of taking a | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
decision on one of them, but there are a couple of other individuals in | :11:09. | :11:17. | |
place for us to do that. You say there was a discussion of policy and | :11:18. | :11:20. | |
essentially Britain does not want this ever closer union as set out in | :11:21. | :11:23. | |
the Lisbon Treaty, and doesn't want to see more power ceded to Brussels | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
and it wants to retain control on immigration, welfare, security and | :11:28. | :11:35. | |
that kind of thing. And there is a battle, as it were, going on at the | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
heart and soul of the European Union with Angela Merkel saying she would | :11:40. | :11:42. | |
not countenance an unravelling of any treaties. And David Cameron | :11:43. | :11:45. | |
saying he wants to see a revision of EU treaties to exclude Britain from | :11:46. | :11:48. | |
the ever closer goal of closer union. Is there that battle, and if | :11:49. | :11:56. | |
so, who do you think is going to win it? There is certainly a discussion | :11:57. | :12:11. | |
and it is a necessary discussion. What's underway in the UK is a | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
competencies review by the different parts of the different agencies of | :12:16. | :12:17. | |
the UK government where they are looking pragmatically about whether | :12:18. | :12:20. | |
it is a benefit or a disadvantage to the UK, the different competencies | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
that are there on a European level. So far that competency review has | :12:25. | :12:27. | |
resulted in a... While it is a net advantage to the UK, these | :12:28. | :12:30. | |
competencies are on a UK level. The same review has been undertaken in | :12:31. | :12:33. | |
the Netherlands with roughly the same result and we are looking at | :12:34. | :12:43. | |
the same in Sweden. This is a discussion with must have all the | :12:44. | :12:46. | |
time but we do end up with the conclusion that in the world in | :12:47. | :12:50. | |
which we are living today, even the biggest of nations, France, Germany, | :12:51. | :12:53. | |
the UK, we are too small on our own to tackle some of these issues, not | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
all of them certainly, and we need to work together even more closely | :12:58. | :13:00. | |
on certain areas. Just to clarify, what has been agreed? Your Prime | :13:01. | :13:02. | |
Minister, Frederik Reinfeldt, said this ever closer union perception is | :13:03. | :13:05. | |
maybe not the best for everyone. This has never been stated by the EU | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
before, that is what emerged at the end of June. But David Cameron has | :13:10. | :13:12. | |
made it quite clear writing in the Daily Telegraph at the end of June, | :13:13. | :13:16. | |
if by fair deal we can agree we are not heading at different speeds to | :13:17. | :13:19. | |
the same place then there is business we can do. Is it still this | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
ultimate goal of ever closer union but you can decide at what speed | :13:24. | :13:26. | |
you're going to get there? Not necessarily, we can define it in | :13:27. | :13:30. | |
different ways. All of the leaders of the EU say closer union might not | :13:31. | :13:33. | |
be for everyone, that is recognition of the fact there is different | :13:34. | :13:37. | |
sentiment in Britain and that needs to be accounted for. Needless to | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
say, we are a union composed of all other nations and we have to account | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
for all of them and consider them. It is a slogan to a certain extent. | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
This is the UK position as well, I happen to be a more pragmatic | :13:53. | :13:54. | |
European, looking at the different issues and merits of the case. Is | :13:55. | :14:01. | |
this an issue that is best decided on a European level, national level, | :14:02. | :14:04. | |
or in Wales or Scotland or Catalonia or the regions of Sweden? That's an | :14:05. | :14:10. | |
ongoing debate we must have on the proper balance of governance of the | :14:11. | :14:12. | |
different European levels. Do you think David Cameron was | :14:13. | :14:32. | |
humiliated by it? Did the chapter damage the reputation of the EU in | :14:33. | :14:36. | |
public? I do not think so. We have the occurrence of these debates now. | :14:37. | :14:40. | |
Then we move on. The difference is what we achieve in terms of policies | :14:41. | :14:49. | |
and results. In foreign affairs, and as Foreign Minister of Sweden, you | :14:50. | :14:52. | |
see the EU as having a clear role when we see events such as the | :14:53. | :14:58. | |
situation in Ukraine. Russia destabilises and the European Union | :14:59. | :15:01. | |
restabilises, you were one of the architects of the way to deal with | :15:02. | :15:04. | |
the post`Soviet states on the EU doorstep. Do you think you are | :15:05. | :15:19. | |
perhaps a bit too hawkish? No. I think it is extremely important that | :15:20. | :15:23. | |
we stand on principle. What happened with Russia and Ukraine, it is | :15:24. | :15:27. | |
something that was an affront to the very fundamental process of peace | :15:28. | :15:29. | |
and security, not only in Europe, but globally. If you allow people to | :15:30. | :15:34. | |
seize territory from another neighbour, that is an unacceptable | :15:35. | :15:45. | |
and destabilising. We have not seen that since Saddam Hussein in Kuwait. | :15:46. | :15:51. | |
It was the same thing. We did not accept it. What Vladimir Putin has | :15:52. | :15:56. | |
done in the Crimea is exactly the same. But the history with this. You | :15:57. | :16:00. | |
likened their actions to Nazi tactics before the Second World War. | :16:01. | :16:14. | |
Is that helpful? We have seen that particular statement being repeated. | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
Who has said it who has not been criticised? Do you accept that it is | :16:19. | :16:28. | |
quite an extreme statement? I said, we have seen it before. We saw it | :16:29. | :16:37. | |
during the Balkan war as well. One leader saying, I have the right to | :16:38. | :16:51. | |
send my forces to protect my people. Is that kind of language helpful? | :16:52. | :16:54. | |
History is sometimes helpful in order to show the dangers that are | :16:55. | :16:57. | |
there. But when the Soviet Union played such a key role in the defeat | :16:58. | :17:01. | |
of the Nazis, is it useful to bring in that analogy? The fact that | :17:02. | :17:05. | |
Stalin was helpful in defeating Hitler was a good thing. That does | :17:06. | :17:09. | |
not say that Stalin was a good person. But just likening the | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
Russian actions in Georgia to Nazi tactics? It is good to look at | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
history. We have seen it before, during the Balkan wars and the | :17:19. | :17:24. | |
1930s. We saw Saddam Hussein in Kuwait. History is not necessarily | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
connected to the future, but you need to be able to learn from | :17:30. | :17:32. | |
history in order to confront the challenges of today. It is how you | :17:33. | :17:44. | |
phrase matters. When the German Foreign Minister said, diplomacy | :17:45. | :17:46. | |
does not mean weakness, but it is needed more than ever to prevent us | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
from being drawn into the abyss of military escalation. I agree | :17:51. | :18:00. | |
entirely. Diplomacy is necessary. But it must be based on the | :18:01. | :18:05. | |
principles. We cannot accept aggression. We cannot accept that | :18:06. | :18:08. | |
you invade the territories of others. We cannot accept people | :18:09. | :18:18. | |
sending tanks across the borders. That is fundamentally incompatible | :18:19. | :18:20. | |
with the principles of European security that we have been trying to | :18:21. | :18:24. | |
uphold and defend and extend and whatever. If you allowed the Chinese | :18:25. | :18:30. | |
to do with the Russians have done, it would be destabilising to Asia as | :18:31. | :18:39. | |
well. The best way of arguably doing that is through NATO. Sweden is not | :18:40. | :18:48. | |
a member of NATO. Why not join? It is a separate issue. Why not? Sweden | :18:49. | :18:55. | |
and Finland are the only countries in that neighbourhood who aren't | :18:56. | :19:02. | |
members. Why not join? That discussion has to be more lively in | :19:03. | :19:08. | |
the next few years to come. One reason why Sweden is not a member of | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
NATO, we took that decision in the late 40s, early 50s. You only need | :19:13. | :19:26. | |
to look at a map to understand that. As the debate promises in Sweden and | :19:27. | :19:30. | |
Finland, we will follow each other very closely. Sweden will not make a | :19:31. | :19:33. | |
move without Finland. In the meantime, we have much closer | :19:34. | :19:38. | |
cooperation with NATO. As you say, there is a debate. When the Finnish | :19:39. | :19:43. | |
Prime Minister and his predecessor have publicly called for Finland to | :19:44. | :19:46. | |
become a member of NATO, if Sweden also joined, you said that is not on | :19:47. | :19:51. | |
the cards? The debate is on the cards. The Swedish Prime Minister | :19:52. | :20:02. | |
said he wished it to be the case. Do you want to see Sweden in NATO? I | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
think there would be advantages. There are a lot of other things we | :20:08. | :20:10. | |
need to do to strengthen the security of Sweden and Finland. | :20:11. | :20:24. | |
Absent membership of NATO. I do not think membership of NATO, even in | :20:25. | :20:27. | |
the most ideal of conditions, will come shortly. Other things are | :20:28. | :20:30. | |
needed. Some of it is strengthening the role of the European Union. | :20:31. | :20:34. | |
Others involve strengthening corporation with NATO. But the | :20:35. | :20:38. | |
cohesion of NATO, the European Union, and partnership with the | :20:39. | :20:40. | |
United States, is absolutely fundamental. Are you worried about | :20:41. | :20:56. | |
the co`operation of the US? We have seen the controversy over the | :20:57. | :21:00. | |
National Security agency. I am worried about the political effects | :21:01. | :21:05. | |
of that. I am less worried about the nature of the alliance. I can be | :21:06. | :21:10. | |
somewhat worried at times when I hear the US politicions talk about | :21:11. | :21:13. | |
the defence of the nation at home be a priority. We need a United States | :21:14. | :21:19. | |
that is thoroughly engaged on the global stage. But you say that the | :21:20. | :21:28. | |
alliance has been questioned. Some people have been saying, should we | :21:29. | :21:31. | |
accept the US dollar as the international currency. And it is | :21:32. | :21:42. | |
absurd that Europeans sell to one another in US dollars. That is | :21:43. | :21:48. | |
US`EU alliance is not as solid as it US`EU alliance is not as solid as it | :21:49. | :21:58. | |
might be. There are tensions. On the currency issue, the dollar is the | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
global currency. I think the euro is going to be increasingly significant | :22:03. | :22:10. | |
in years to come. It might well be that we will see a situation where | :22:11. | :22:13. | |
foreign bodies that have nothing to do with this particular dispute, the | :22:14. | :22:16. | |
euro will emerge as a more significant global currency. At the | :22:17. | :22:22. | |
same time, the bonds are very strong. If you look at challenges, | :22:23. | :22:28. | |
look at the Middle East and all the problems we have there. No European | :22:29. | :22:39. | |
nation, not even Europe can do it. We have to deal with the Americans. | :22:40. | :22:42. | |
Finally, there are elections in September. You're part of the | :22:43. | :22:47. | |
centre`right government. You could be out of the job. Would you fancy | :22:48. | :22:53. | |
the position of the EU foreign policy chief? I am not a candidate. | :22:54. | :22:59. | |
I am not a candidate for anything except Sweden at the moment. I think | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
you might be out of the job most likely in Sweden. That might | :23:06. | :23:08. | |
certainly be the case. You never know. I am not a candidate for that | :23:09. | :23:18. | |
position. That being said, I will stay engaged on the European scene. | :23:19. | :23:29. | |
I think they are vitally important. If you were offered it, you would | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
not take it? I do not think I would be offered it, because I am not a | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
candidate. But I will stay engaged. Very quickly, is it because you are | :23:38. | :23:46. | |
seen as very outspoken? One person said he would answer is getting the | :23:47. | :23:49. | |
job asked them because you say what you think and that is not always | :23:50. | :23:52. | |
wise and politics. Briefly, is that true? He is a very wise person. You | :23:53. | :23:57. | |
will carry on speaking your mind? Yes I will. Carl Bildt, thank you | :23:58. | :24:00. | |
for coming on HARDtalk. Yesterday, we had some pretty big | :24:01. | :24:26. | |
temperature contrasts across the British Isles, where the sunshine | :24:27. | :24:29. | |
put in an appearance temperatures reached 25. Underneath this cloud it | :24:30. | :24:36. | |
was not just cool, it was also pretty | :24:37. | :24:37. |