Khaled Meshaal - Leader of Hamas HARDtalk

Now it is time for hard talk. This programme was recorded yesterday.

Welcome to hard talk from Qatar, my guest today is Khaled Meshaal, the

political chief of the Palestinian is a missed movement, Hamas, which

is currently locked in a grim and costly military confrontation with

Israel in Gaza. Right now, the pressure on Hamas is immense,

military, political and diplomatic. So, is the showdown in Gaza a battle

for the survival of Hamas. Side Michelle, thank you for joining

me. More than 700 Palestinians have been killed in this current Gaza

conflict, tens of thousands have fled their homes and the UN is

talking about a humanitarian crisis for those who have been displaced,

how long are you prepared to see your Palestinian people suffer like

this? But I asked you specifically how

long you are prepared to see this go on, because you were offered a

truce, last week, the Egyptian government brokered a deal. The

Israelis seemed ready to accept it, you refused, why?

But if I may say so, it is one thing to say that, sitting here that we

are no longer to accept the situation of siege as you call it.

But if you are a Palestinian today in Gaza, surely the thing that you

want above all else, is a truce for the firing to stop, and then Babs,

Hamas, Israel, Egypt, the United States can talk about the deal. But

surely, a truce must come first? Hamas stands accused of deliberately

endangering the lives of Palestinian civilians, the Israeli government

says that you are using Palestinians, men, women and

children, as human shields. You talk of resistance, how can any

idea of resistance justify putting rockets in a school building?

But with respect, this is not something that has come from Israel,

this is the UN relief and Works agency which has said that up to 20

rockets were deposited in a school building, inside Gaza. They are

furious, the Secretary General of the United Nations has expressed his

outrage, he said those responsible are turning schools into potential

military targets and endangering the lives of innocent children.

But the question of why so many civilians are dying, again raises

issues about the message given by Hamas, two Palestinian civilians,

wife or example, when the Israeli military were issuing phone recorded

warnings to people telling them to leave their homes, did the Hamas

ministry of interior say "we call on the people not to cooperate with

these messages, not to leave their homes but to continue with their

lives". But what right do Hamas leaders who

I dare say have their underground bunkers to keep them safe, what

right do they have two say to all recent billions that they should not

heed warnings from Israel, to leave for their own safety. `` to say to

the population that they should not heed warnings.

When the Hamas spokesman said on Al Aqsa television just a couple of

days ago, that the policy of people protecting their homes with their

bare chests has proved effective against this occupation, we call on

people to adopt this policy. Do you think that was sensible? Was that

moral? But telling people to stay in their

homes when it is clear that the Israelis intend an attack, is in no

way condemning them to death? Let me talk about Hamas's

determination to continue with the rocket attacks, into Israel. This is

the statement issued by the outgoing president of Israel, Shimon Peres.

"No state in the world would be accept rockets fired at its women

and children. No state would accept terrorists are merging from tunnels

to kill innocent people. Do you understand why the Israelis are so

utterly determined to end this threat to their civilian population

`` are emerging from tunnels. There is no question that Israel's

military capability far outstrips yours, and there is no doubt that

most of your rockets are completely ineffective but nonetheless, the

fact that Hamas continues to fire them indiscriminately, that is the

word used by the United Nations human rights chief, indiscriminately

into Israel, does mean that Israel according to the US, the EU and

international opinion it would seem, Israel has a right to defend

itself? Despite the fact that you can see

much better than me is that right now, this conflict seems to be

locked in a determination from both sides to continue with the military

actions that they are currently undertaking, I just wonder how far

you are prepared to push this. One Hamas spokesman said recently, that

rockets will be sent into Tel Aviv and even further. He was speaking

after the rocket landed near the airport, is that the Hamas strategy

right now? But let us talk a cease`fire, what

would it take for Hamas to sign onto cease`fire now?

What the Americans seem to be working on is a two stage deal,

where there will be a truce, where the guns and rockets will stop

firing, and then there will be a serious negotiation about how to

boost the Gaza economy, Howard sees the blockade on Gaza, and to give

the people of Gaza a better life, are you prepared to accept a 2`stage

solution to this? But I want to be very clear about

this because the world is watching you, you are the political leader of

Hamas, you speak for Hamas. Are you prepared to take this step`by`step,

tell your people, your military wing to stop firing the rockets, while

you negotiate with the Egyptians, the Americans, whoever, a longer

term agreement on changing the economic situation for the people in

Gaza? I sense from you and at a

determination not to return to the status quo, is not the truth that

Hamas in many ways is weaker now than it has been in a very long

time, you have lost key allies, I'm thinking of the Muslim brotherhood,

your allies in Hirano, who won no longer so close to you. They are in

desperate financial trouble `` you are in desperate financial trouble,

you cannot even afford to pay the salaries of public sector workers,

you are in a very weak position right now? Hamas is obviously right

now committed to what you call resistance, what the Israelis called

terrorism inflicted on their people from your rocket attacks. It just

leaves me wondering, where the deal that you did with Fatah, the other

key element in the Palestinian movement, where it stands right now?

That deal for national unity government seems to be dead because

that has announced violence, you are using violence. Where is the unity?

If the national unity government is not dead, why are so many Hamas

activists and officials accusing Matt Muda bass and the Palestinian

Authority leadership of collaboration with Israel in

security crackdowns against Hamas activists in the West Bank, it does

not sound to me like there is any credibility to this idea that fatter

and Hamas can work together? At the beginning of this interview,

you traced the current violence back, to the fallout from the murder

of three teenage Israeli boys, in the West Bank. Are you now prepared

to acknowledge, that that murder, those murders, were the work of

Hamas? But the reason I raise this issue,

it gets to the heart of a fundamental question, what is

Hamas's strategy? Is it just to rely always upon violence, upon terror,

and believe that in the end those instruments can deliver you what you

called liberation? Do you really believe that?

Right now Hamas officials in the West Bank as well as in Gaza, are

talking about a third intifada, they are talking about violence sweeping

across the occupied territories, do you really think that will help

Palestinian people? I just want to end with maybe a

slightly more personal question because you and I have talked

actually several times over the years, over long years and every

time you tell me that the Hamas strategy, armed resistance, refusal

to recognise Israel, will in the end leads the Palestinian people to what

you call liberation. But look at what has happened over the course of

the years that we have been talking, the plight of the Palestinians today

too many people outside looks worse, more bleak than it has ever looked

before, is there a tiny part of you that now questions whether your

strategy makes sense. You are talking about a long`term

vision, a final thought, when do you believe that the current conflict in

Gaza will end? Khaled Meshaal, I thank you for

joining me, thank you very much. Yellow you are welcome. Welcome.

hello good evening again, today we have seen temperatures reaching 30

degrees but through the weekend from the Northwest we will introduce

cooler and pressure air, but there will be some showers all long spells

of rain too. Certainly we have had a lot of rain, in these storms across

at least of England, causing some disruption, but they will be fading