HARDtalk on Location: Yevgeny Shevchuk HARDtalk

Africa. That is it. You are up to date with

the headlines. Now on BBC News, it's time for HARDtalk.

Today, HARDtalk is in a corner of Europe stuck in political and

strategic limbo. Welcome to Transnistria, a sliver of territory

inside Moldova, which for the past two decades or so has been in the

hands of pro`Russian separatists. My guest today is that the self`styled

president of Transnistria, Yevgeny Shevchuk. As Russia flexes its

muscle across the former Soviet space, could Transnistria become a

new zone of conflict between Russia and the West?

Yevgeny Shevchuk, welcome to HARDtalk. There is something quite

extraordinary about your small territory. It looks and feels like

the soviet union never went away. Do you see that as a sign of success?

`` Soviet Union. Obviously, the impression is based

on what I see and for example, what I see behind you is the flag that

your territory has adopted, which of course has the very prominent hammer

and sickle, the symbol of the soviet union. Does that indicate that you

want a system here and an ideology which goes back to the Soviet days?

You make a great deal of the symbols. You have built what you

call a nation. You have a flag, you have your own currency, the ruble.

You have your own passports. But, it is all a fantasy. Nobody outside of

this tiny territory recognises the legitimacy of what you call, your

state. Bad, what is the point of a passport

that you cannot use? I don't understand `` but.

You said, when you were elected in 2011, that you were determined and

you would work tirelessly to win international recognition for

Transnistria. On that basis, you have failed.

Things are changing very fast in this neighbourhood. And, obviously,

at the top of the list of changes is what has happened in Ukraine. Do you

see the crisis of that, I mean, your neighbour, Ukraine, as a threat? Or,

an opportunity? We have seen terrible violence in

Ukraine. Do you fear that such is the potential for conflict here in

Transnistria that there could be new violence here, particularly if

Moscow decides that it needs to intervene in this territory?

In April, the delivered what you call your state of the nation at

rest and you made a point of saying that you wanted to see Transnistria

independent, but then forging a future with Russia. Your Parliament

has appealed with Russia to annex this territory, just like Crimea ``

address. Is that really the lesson you draw from what has happened in

Ukraine, that you want Russia to annex you?

If I may, the referendum, as you know, had no international

legitimacy or standing whatsoever. It doesn't mean anything, the vote

that you had in 2006. But, with respect, I just wonder

whether you appreciate the degree to which the stands are shifting all

around you. We now have in Moldova, just a fume aisles that way, a

government which has signed an association agreement with the

European union. A few miles that way, a government in the has also

signed an agreement with the European Union. Both of your

neighbours are looking to the west, to the European Union, which leaves

you, sandwiched between them, more isolated than ever before `` up a

few miles away. It seems to me that, whether you

like it or not, a lot of your own people see that the political wind

has changed and that they need to change too. For example, I am sure

that you are very well aware that a huge number of the people in your

own territory now either have or want to get a Moldovan passport. Why

do you think that is? But, surely, this tells you

something. The figure you didn't come up with was almost 200,000

people now have Moldovan passport. The reason they do is they can see

huge attractions to be Moldovan. Not least thanks to the agreement that

has now been signed, Moldovan passport holders can travel freely,

without visas, across the Sjinkie Knegt rear of the European Union. ``

Schengin. I have heard that you yourself have looked into getting a

Moldovan passport. This shows the craziness of your determination to

be separate from Moldova. Do you not accept that, looking

forward and at the economic situation in your territory, and

considering where the economic potential lies for your people, it

would be better for your people to make a future with Moldova plan to

continue to look east to Russia, a territory which you are separated

from by hundreds of miles? Let me focus for a little bit on your

relationship with Moscow. You have told me that, you know, you are an

independent state, state being a word that I am putting in quotation

marks. You aren't independent at all. If one looks at the facts of

your territory and how it works, you are totally reliant on Moscow. Let's

start with gas supplies. And, energy. Basically, it you don't pay

for the energy, the gas, that you get from Gazprom. You haven't paid

for years for this gas. In fact, you owe $5 billion. Far from being

independent, you are entirely reliant on Gazprom, on Russia, for

your energy supplies. Would you accept that you are

entirely dependent upon Russia's largess? Your gas supplies, which

you get for free, unless Russia changes its mind. Also, Russia props

up your official budget. Without Russia, your government would be

completely bankrupt. But they have to pay for their gas,

you don't have to pay for your gas, Russia gives it to you for free.

And the budget deficit, you accept your government would be completely

bankrupt were it not for the cash injection Russia sense to you every

single year. They prop you up. And then there's the question of the

troops. How many troops are there here from Russia on your territory

today? The Russians promised to remove all

of their military forces from this territory in 1995, and they are

still here. I just wonder whether you ever worry

that you are being used by Moscow. It is very useful for the Russians

to have this" Frozen conflict" inside mol dova. They don't want to

recognise your independence. They don't want to give you a union with

the Russian Federation. They just want to keep you here as a stone in

the shoe of Moldova and of the European Union.

I tell you who else is an optimist, and I met him the other day, and he

maintained a very positive view of what will happen in Transnistria,

and that is the Prime Minister of mol dova, Mr your region anchor. He

believes in the end Transnistrians will see the logic, the sense, of

unifying, returning to mol dova stop he says the economic opportunities

are there for you to see. He says he is offering autonomy. He says he

wants monitoring systems without military, but a monetary system to

insure your rights are reserved and he believes in the long`running

Transnistria will have a future inside Moldova `` monitoring

system. Do you think that the demographic

situation here points to optimism when, in 1990, at the time of the

collapse of the Soviet Union, 700,000 people lived in your

territory and right now today all of the best estimates suggest fewer

than 500,000 people actually live on your soil, even though you're very

cagey about the figures. You are haemorrhaging people. You're now

down to a point where to talk of a nation in such a territory, with

such a tiny population, just seems absurd.

Which have found a successful economic formula, which clearly you

have not found. You say you are an optimist and you

believe in the people in your territory. If that's the case, why

is it that according to human rights organisations like Freedom House,

freedom of expression is certainly dearly curtailed here. The state

exercises control of the broadcast media, public protests require a

permit, the judiciary is subservient to the executive and politically

motivated arrests and detentions are commonplace. Why?

In terms of rights, one of the issues which international

campaigners have looked at is the way in which Moldovan citizens,

people who particularly use the Moldovan language, are treated on

the soil here in Transnistria. In 2012, European Court of Human Rights

ruling found that there were unacceptable restrictions on the

teaching of Moldovan in schools, on your territory. In fact Russia was

held responsible and was fined. Why is it that you are so frightened of

people speaking the Moldovan language?

With respect, this wasn't a complaint directed by the Moldovan

government. This was a complaint and a ruling that came from the European

Court of Human Rights. Before we end, I just want to think

a little bit about the future. If you look at the young people that

you are responsible for in this territory and you think about their

children as well, do you really think the course you are pursuing

today is in their best long`term interests?

Yevgeny Shevchuk, thank you very much for being on HARDtalk. Thank

you.