Donna Edwards, Democratic Congresswoman HARDtalk

Now on BBC News it's time for HARDtalk.

Welcome to HARDtalk from Washington, DC. I am Stephen Sackur. The rules

of American politics are being rewritten this election season. The

rise of Donald Trump has shaken the Republican Party to its core. And as

for the Democrats, well, the battle between Hillary Clinton and Bernie

Sanders is really a struggle for the party's sole. My guess today is

democratic Congresswoman Donna Edwards. She is a radical voice in

the party who is now running for a seat in the Senate. Is America ready

for genuinely left-wing politics? Congresswoman Donna Edwards, welcome

to HARDtalk. Thank you. Good to be with you. There is a very deep

feeling of frustration, anger, alienation amongst many Americans in

the political system, with Washington and with politicians. You

are an elected politician in Washington. Why is this feeling so

strong? I am but I actually came into politics very different from my

Coley. I worked in the private sector. I think I bring an outsider

perspective -- colleagues. People are frustrated. Incomes have been

stagnant for a couple of decades. Their children are having a hard

time not just getting to college but paying for college. And I think that

frustration is really understandable when they think that in Washington

nothing can get done that makes a difference in their lives. So it is

our job to change it. The interesting thing is how long you

can be the outsider when you are inside the system, because you are

in your fourth term as a democratic Congresswoman, so you have been in

Washington for quite a while, and as you say you came as a real outsider,

you have overcome real obstacles to make your political career, but that

was a while ago and now you are inside. I came in in 2008 and of

course that was the year that also swept in our new president, Barack

Obama, and there was a lot of hope and interest, and I do think that I

came in at a time where our economy was just in a whole and we have been

digging out of that. And I think we have certainly faced that in my

district, the state and country. Do you have a different perspective

from your colleagues in the U.S. Congress? A little bit off your back

story. You have known poverty in your own life. You have raised a son

pretty much on your own for most of your life. You have had experiences

which it is fair to say most politicians have not had. I think

that is true and I think those experiences really inform the way I

think about what my job is. You know, I wouldn't, I don't often

describe myself as living in poverty but I certainly lived through

struggle. Trying to figure out how to put food on the table and pay for

the basics. I have walked in people's shoes and I think that is

one of the things that folks know about me. That is the reason I bring

that perspective to lawmaking. Because I think sometimes we can

lose touch with the things that are most important in people's live.

Let's think about politics today and your place in it. Would you describe

yourself as a radical? Know but I am rebellious against the system that

doesn't work for ordinary people -- no. And I and prepared to take on

members of the opposite political party, the Republican Party, but I

am prepared to take on members of my own political party if it means

making a difference for the people who are like families like mine.

People I have talked to an things I have read in the Washington insider

political media call you confrontational. They say you don't

have many friends and point out that in your race to win a Senate seat in

Maryland you haven't even got the support of the congressional black

caucus because they don't like you very much. I don't have the support

of the congressional black caucus political action committee and the

reason is because it represents a whole bunch of interest that I have

challenged. It is not a surprise to me that the people who represent the

pharmaceutical industry for example are not supportive of me. Why? I

want to negotiate pharmaceutical drugs. It is not a surprise to me

that the folks who represent the tobacco industry voted against me in

the congressional black caucus because I think that we have a

problem particularly with smoking among our young people and so what I

would say is politics is not about just being friendly people, it is

about getting things done that make a difference. It is about getting

things done. That is crucial. Maybe there is one signal that you are a

politician more interested in ideological purity than getting

things done or making pragmatic deals across the aisle with your

Republican opponents. That would be 2011, the big argument over the

budget, when the Obama White House in the end pushed a compromise to

get a budget through to put a new ceiling on the federal budget, it

was not a compromise Obama love but he felt it was the only way to go.

It got the support of congressional democratic leaders. But he did not

get your support. You voted against it. You in a sense were lined up

with the tea party activists on the republican side. I would say I was

lined up with my colleagues from Marilyn, Alaia Cummings, who

represents Baltimore, John Saab aims as well who represents Baltimore, I

was lined with people who knew that putting in budget as a question in

place would be a disaster for the middle class. In fact, democratic

and Republicans since then have been tried to this which I voted

against. You did with that vote contemplate shutting down the

government, and what you say to those people in your own party who

say, you know what, you, in a sense, are the mirror image of the Puritans

on the republican side who call themselves the Tea Party. I don't

agree with that at all. That is political nonsense. For example, I

still run the Science and Technology Committee. I negotiated a bipartisan

deal to fund Nasser which passed out of the House of Representatives with

a Tea Party member. -- NASA. So I don't buy that. I think you make

decisions based on your gut and my instinct tells me and told me that

that budget surplus to would be a disaster and in fact from Marilyn to

be lost over two and a half billion dollars in our economy because of

that budget sequester. Do you think the Democratic Party today is not

left wing enough? I don't know what that means. I get up every day and

want to go to a job and I think most people want to go to a job that pays

a decent wage and allows their children to do better than they did

and allows them to meet their responsibilities. For example, let

me take a specific issue, you have always supported the idea of taxing

the rich, the very rich and corporate interests more than is

currently the case and has been the case under Bill Clinton, Barack

Obama and a series of democratic president as well as Republican

presidents. That is you believe in the principle of redistribution in a

way that many Americans do not. I don't buy that. I think that I

believe in a tax system that really is fair and right now we have a

system where a secretary and an executive assistant working in an

office has a higher tax rate than her CEO boss. That is an unfair

system that is actually starving our economy and I think that we ought to

restore balance, go back to the tax rate that we had 20 years ago, that

was a much more fair distribution for taxes. So it is not about

redistribution but about making sure that the economy has what it takes

to move forward. And do you think that the fact that a lot of

Democrats don't talk that language, and are leery about getting involved

in higher taxes on the rich, do you think that is one reason why, if you

look at the basic stats, the Democratic Party is not in great

shape? Why do you think that is? I think that as democrats we have to

be the really clear about our agenda. Republicans are awfully

clear about their agenda. And I think as democrats we have to be

clear also that we are interested in making sure that there is a social

safety net so that people can build and rebuild their lives and have a

place in the economy, making sure that we have the protection is a

social safety net so that people can build and rebuild their lives and

have a place in the economy, making sure that we have the protections.

That answer and everything we have discussed so far makes me puzzled

about one thing, white, Congresswoman, argue backing Hillary

Clinton and not the self-styled socialist, progressive Bernie

Sanders? -- why. I am very excited about Bernie Sanders' candidacy

because I think it has challenged my candidate, Hillary Clinton, to

articulate a vision in my country I believe in. Why is she your

candidate? Here is the reason. Long before I came into Congress I

actually worked with Hillary Clinton on issues related to women and

women's leadership and I believe in the power of women's leadership. And

I think she will make a great president. You are voting for her

because she is a woman? Well, I think that is an important

consideration. Of course it is but in the end we are talking about the

future of this country, and if your agenda... It seems it is true, if

your agenda matches Bernie Sanders, he is the candidate who after all

says he wants to dismantle Wall Street interests, take on big banks,

he wants serious campaign finance reform, he wants a minimum wage at

mean something to order Mary working Americans, $15 an hour, he wants to

tear up the trade agreements Hillary Clinton that, these are issues where

you seem to be on his side of the fence and not hers -- that. The

thing is I supported President Obama but I don't agree with everything he

does. We make choices about presidents that are about their

leadership, about where we think that they can be challenged and

where we think that they can be moved. There are a lot of different

reasons that we make decisions for president and not because we agree

on every single issue. And frankly, when people vote for me they don't

vote for me because they agree with me about everything I do, it is a

vision for the United States and I believe Hillary Clinton shares of

those visions and values and she will make a great president. You of

course are running for Senate in November and it is in a way it

tempting to see it as a mirror of the Clinton- Sanders race because

you are running against it is that say a centrist pragmatist moderate

democratic opponent in the democratic primary here in Marilyn,

Chris van Hollen. He is seen as a dealmaker. You have never sponsored

a deal that has won Republican backing. I don't know what you're

talking about. I negotiated a bill that passed out of the house of

Representatives that was a bipartisan authorisation for our

space programme that was very contentious because of funding for

climate change. And I negotiated that with a colleague of mine from

Mississippi and we don't share anything else in common. We managed

to sit down and negotiate at high partisan negotiation that came out

of the house and into the Senate without an issue. On space I stand

corrected but here is the Washington Post verdict on your race until me

why you are wrong -- why they are wrong if they are. Miss Donna

Edwards, whose attributes don't admit a gift for team play, would

reinforce the Congress tendency for stalemate along partisan lines. If

leaving their dysfunction in the American Congress is important, and

it is, then Mr van Hollen, the gifted legislator, is a better

candidate. Well, I mean, you know, look, I am not gonna say what the

Washington Post concludes, but I will tell you this - I feel like the

reason that I am a header in the latest polls is because I have

captured the energy, the hopes and dreams and aspirations of the people

of the state of Marilyn -- ahead. The Washington Post editorial has

cast a vote and voters will have an opportunity to speak on April 26.

And lastly, I think that their characterisation of my work in the

Congress is just wrong. I headed the bipartisan, the largest bipartisan

caucus in the Congress, the women's walkers, with my Republican

colleague, and it was our work together that led to the re-

authorisation of the violence against women act. Let me bring it

back to the national picture them, and we have discussed your, as you

say, your long-term backing for Hillary and your belief that it is a

question of integrity - you are going to remain with Hillary. Some

look at the way in which leading voices in the African-American

community such as yours have been so loyal to the Clintons, first Bill

and now Hillary, and they believe that there is some sort of loyalty

issue there which is overcoming the Clinton' failure to deliver on key

policies that matter most of our people -- Clintons'. How do you

respond to that? I don't have any particular loyalty. I don't know the

Clintons personally. I have worked with Secretary Clinton in the

context of her service as Secretary of State and prior to that in the

non-governmental sector and I respect her leadership. I also

respect the fact that I think that in the United States, unlike some of

our eating European friends and allies and partners, that it is time

to move forward on women's leadership and I think it will make

a real difference in the conversation, in the kinds of

policies that are put forward -- some of our European friends. A

grateful we have a spirited democratic primary to challenge that

wisdom and whoever comes out of the process as a democrat I will support

as the President. I understand your point about the gender issue being

important but if I may want to dig down on the race issue. Right now

one of the most sort of passionate and interesting interventions in

recent days was from Bill Clinton stumping for Hillary when confronted

by a group of activists from black lives matter. They were condemning

him for his use and I believe at the time Hillary's use of the phrase

super predators to talk about urban gangland criminals and frankly it

was black criminals in the mid- 90s around the time of the Clintons',

Bill Clinton's Reinach and many black activists are troubled by some

of the language that will Clinton used and Hillary used later -- crime

act. -- Black Lives Matter. It seems to dehumanise the black community.

I was troubled by it too, I worked on the violence against women act in

1994 that was incorporated under the crime Bill, I actually opposed the

crime Bill Sisley because I thought that we had instituted a set of

criminal justice policies that, as we've come to find out, has resulted

in the further incarceration of more African-Americans, more Latinos in

the country. We had evidence then, as we have evidence now, that those

criminal justice policies failed to prevent crime. In fact I've

supported legislation that would increase contributions for

education, for those who are incarcerated, that would get rid of

mandatory minimum sentences, that would make certain we have a

criminal justice system that in fact works to rehabilitate and restore

our communities. Here's the question, we had eight years of Bill

Clinton, who had the overwhelming support of black voters, then we

have just ending eight years of Barack Obama, the first black

American president and a man who also was absolutely committed from

the beginning to working on racial healing and looking after the

interests of all communities, not just the majority community. Why,

given 16 years of Democratic presidents committed to that sort of

policy, is the lot of African-Americans today in many ways

worse than it's ever been, if you look at economic statistics, law

enforcement violence against the black community. What's gone wrong

is the lot of African-Americans today in many ways worse than it's

ever been, if you look at economic statistics, law enforcement violence

against the black community. What's gone wrong? We've. I don't think

it's fair to assign the current plight just to the 16 years of

Democrats, what about the last 30 years that we've had of Republican

presidents were we've had policies greatly disadvantage in black

people. But it's the direction of travel. One of the reasons I'm

running for the U.S. Senate is I believe it's important for my

perspective on these issues to be represented in the Senate so we can

advance policies that can make a difference in peoples lives, whether

those are black citizens or middle-class citizens, people who

have often been left out of the public policy conversation. That's

why I think it's important to have someone like me around that table in

the United States Senate so whoever sits in the White House, we're able

to advance policies that make a difference for communities. Have you

been disappointed by Barack Obama's actions on this particular issue?

No, I have not. First of all, I think starting out when Barack Obama

took office in 2009, digging us out of one of the worst recessions we've

had in generations, trying to rebuild the economy, rebuild jobs

that were lost in black communities... Do I think we have

challenges? Yes we have challenges, some of those challenges are about

how we have this invested over the course of Democratic and Republican

residents in our urban core, and changing the prospects in urban

communities, and that's a serious contributing factor to the

circumstance that African find themselves in. Let's talk about

rooting out racism in particular, American, Eric Holder, black

attorney general appointed by Obama in 2009, although this nation has

talked about itself as a black melting pot, but in this nation we

have always been and continue to be in too many ways a nation of

cowards. You're talking about somebody running for the United

States Senate as the second black woman in the United States Senate. I

don't think I need to be challenged on where it is we need to go and the

problem of our own history. Are not challenging view, I'm challenging

your partner. The way we change that history is change politics so I can

be in a position to challenge my colleagues that I'm not. We have a

wretched history when it comes to race politics over the last 240

years. That was not going to be undone by eight years of a black

president. But it can be undone by a different kind of Senate and another

White House. This can be done. You spoke and wrote very movingly after

the killing... A number of killings by police of unarmed young black men

in recent years, one was not very so far from your Congressional

district, Freddie Gray in Baltimore, and after Freddie Gray's death you

wrote about the fact you have to talk to your own son, who is a

teenager? No, he's 27. You were reflecting on what you used to tell

him as a teenager, you said if a police officer stops you, always

make sure they can see your hands, don't reach for anything, please

don't mouth off, you can do that when you get home safe. Is that the

way you feel, and other black women who are the mothers of teenage black

sons, feel today? I've think so and it's a reality check. The fact is we

have a lot of great law enforcement officers. But we also have a culture

within law enforcement that it's not always interacted well in black

communities. There are things we can do about that. Things like law

enforcement training, training, cultural sensitivity, making sure we

have transparency and accountability and civilian participation in that

accountability. The goal as black people, we want to live in safe

communities too so we have to work in cooperation with law enforcement

to make communities safe. Where a work in progress, so plenty of work

to be done. Final thought. We've talked a lot about Obama and Hillary

too, I guess always the tension in the Democratic party is the degree

to which you can stand by your principles and also get stuff done

in an environment where in the end getting stuff done means working

with at least some Republicans. Do you believe if you win your race to

get into the Senate that you have the right balance between, sort of,

purity of principle and pragmatism? Well, I've proven that. I've proven

that over and over again both before I came into Congress, and certainly

now since I've been there. My willingness without compromising

principal. But there are plenty of issues that we work on that are just

about work, they're not about principal. For example I've got kids

in Maesteg who now get free breakfast and lunch as well as

dinner -- Maesteg. There's nothing Republican or Democrat about making

sure kids get nutritious meals so they can fully recognise their

academic achievement. Those are things we can work on an plenty of

others. I think we have to have full heads prevailing, and if we focused

not at the 30,000 foot level, but on the ground and people and their

lives, then we will get those things done across the aisle. I started by

asking you if the US public still had faith in the political system,

do you? I do. I can remember working on my first political campaign when

I was 15, and the energy and excitement I felt about that, and I

feel it about the system because I believe it works. We've had peaks

and valleys over the last 240 years, but I believe in it. And as I go

around our communities, I meet people all the time who do as well,

and that young Harold ten years old in Baltimore, excited about maths

and science and wanting to do well in school, and our job is to deliver

for her. Congresswoman Donna Edwards, thank you for being on

HARDtalk. Thank you. That was really good. Really appreciate it.

Yesterday ended with quite a variety of weather across the