Chris Eubank HARDtalk

Now on BBC News, Stephen Sackur talks to

Beyond all the rules, it is a physical contact in which bodies are

hurt and lives at risk. That was grimly evident in March

when British boxer Nick Blackwell almost died after a bout with

Chris Eubank Jr. Eubank Sr now manages

and mentors his son, despite vowing many years ago to

keep his kids away from boxing. Why is boxing still in his blood?

Chris Eubank, welcome to HARDtalk. Let's start with the thought of what

it is like for you, as a former champion, who has taken beatings and

deliver many beatings, now to stand in the corner of the ring and watch

your son go through the same raw, brutal competition - what does it

feel like? What does it feel like? Is it harder in some ways? No. No,

he has complied to what I have instructed him to do. I have

built... No one can build a fighter like any other fighter. I encouraged

him to stay away from boxing, he would not and so, after four years,

I said, OK, you will have to follow instructions and if you do, you may

have a chance, even to fail, because it is the only possible task to make

champion of the world. The way I helped Junior is I have given him

nothing. I have only put upon him pressure, insurmountable amount of

pressure, tasks he was not supposed to able to compete and he has come

through them so what you have in a Junior, as a fighter, who is a great

fighter, even who is renowned to be the best boxer in the world at

middleweight division, Golovkin, Golovkin, in my view, when I use my

experience, my knowledge of boxing and looking at him, he is an all

round, comprehensive, very good fighter. Junior is a great fighter.

Do you think he can be a world champion? I know, I do not think. My

concern is my opponents. A couple of months ago, Junior, as you call him,

was involved in a pretty brutal bout with Nick Blackwell. It ended at the

end of the 10th round, Nick Blackwell was in a bad way and was

rushed to hospital and was in a coma for a long time and almost died.

Thankfully, he has recovered. Yes. What did it do to you and more

particularly, what did it do to your son? It has fortified his resolve.

His view is, he does not want that to happen to him. He has intensified

his training. He is going to be harder, more ferocious, more brutal.

He is going to become more for Russia's and that is exactly what I

hearing from the gene. Ronnie, who used to train me, is telling me

that. He's in the gym and working harder than he was. What about

elements of compassion or empathy - I mean, he knows that Nick Blackwell

almost died and his career has finished. He will not box again. As

a matter of fact, he did die and they revived in in the ambulance. It

is very serious. Can I make this point?

Two days before the flight, at a press conference - you can see

it on YouTube now - I say to Nick, "you are in danger and I am going

to ask the referees to mind you." Now, he took it as some type

of psychological, um... The usual trash talking boxing way,

yeah. But you were being serious?

But he was warned - it's there. They say I was not compassionate.

Of course I was and it proves it by you looking at that footage

of this press conference when I actually explain to him that you

should not be fighting Junior because junior had been brought up

by this very peculiar father. I made world champion,

I defended it 18 times. You know, the way I did that was

not through ordinary behaviour. I had to behave exceptionally

in order to achieve what I did and so therefore, I said, "believe me,

you are and I will ask the referees to be mindful of you" to which he

said "Well, thanks for caring." A throwaway comment and two days

later, look exactly what happened. Let's talk a little bit

about what happened because it has become quite controversial.

During the fight, as the rounds went on, you were seem

to be very animated and I think you said afterwards, you were slapping

the canvas at one point, trying to get the referees to stop the fight.

Banging on the canvas and I'm talking about violently.

Okay... What did you say to your son

at one point? Again, some dispute

about what you meant but you appeared to be telling him to ease

off the punches to the head. I said to him, leave his head alone.

This was an independant...this was independent of what was said

in the eighth...the rest of the seventh round.

It was independent of that. I said to him leave

his head alone as I am always telling in sparring because he is

throwing like 130 punches a round. He's throwing 30, 40, 50 punch

combinations - this is unheard of. You know, people throw five, six,

seven punch combinations. He has what I refer to

as seven gears. Let's be simple about this.

Were you at that point - if you felt Blackwell was really in trouble -

were you trying to save him? What was going on in your mind?

In my mind, this man is not in a fight.

As I said to Junior at the end of the seventh round, I do not know

why the referee has not stopped it. I then ended my advice to him

as follows, "Leave his face alone. You're not going to take out there,

take him out in the body." The referee should have stopped

the fight three rounds before. Now, here is my view - Junior,

or fighters, they have their set of eyes, they have my set of eyes or

the trainers, the cornerman's set of eyes, and they have a third set of

eyes which is in my case, Ronnie. Okay, now, the referee should have

a second pair of eyes. There should be another referee

actually looking at a contest because what happened

there was not fair to Nick. Do you think professional boxing

needs to reassess the way in which referees work and the way

in which boxers' abilities to carry on is monitored?

Yes. Professional boxing does not like

that message. They have responded to that fight by saying the referees

did everything right and nothing could have been done and sometimes

these accidents happen. I do not want to speak against them but I

have been in their, I know the life, I know the pain, I know the

Esat beatings I have experienced, I feel them. -- that bitter beatings.

I am not a clairvoyant, I have just seen it before. I want to talk about

the eerie echoes in his bout with Nick Blackwell that go back to your

bout in 1991, and other monumental fight with Michael Watson which

ended, again, after an amazing compelling fight with Watson almost

dead. He had the clot the size of a saucer inside his brain. The doctor

treating him said he had never seen one like that before after a month

in coma is survived but was disabled and remained disabled to this day.

Everything you are discussing suggests you'll experience tells you

boxing is horrible. Boxing is life-threatening for all of those

in. Why do you find it still so compelling, so attract it? Because

you have to be true, you have to be honest, you have to have integrity,

you have to have fortitude. Integrity must be your call. The

warrior is strong yet he is fragile. His decisions cannot be based on the

frailty of man. You talk about the warrior code but in honest moments

you have said that that fight scarred you for ever and if I have

any regrets it is about Michael Watson. You carried what you did to

him through the rest of your life. I have done and I will carry on and it

makes reference to all that you are asking about glorious, fighters,

radiators. His decisions cannot be based on the frailty of and his,

however, fuelled by a divine inspiration. He knows not anger and

only fear is the unknown. The warrior does not judge because his

true assignment is to deliver evidence of superior behaviour. He

knows no friend tears. He only sees horizons... The warrior is a

creature to ensure peace. He knows, excerpts and embraces above all

integrity which is the reason, the application of reason - which is his

only weapon and forgiveness. That is the cope with which we yearn to...

You and your son are different. You said this in the wake of what

happened to your son, he said I want Junior to be different from me. I

was scarred. I have regrets. I do not want him to be anything but

ruthless, cold eyed and ferocious. It seems to me, you are telling your

son to leave out mercy. That is a very strange message for most people

watching around the world. The pre- requisite of a father is to protect

your son. I giving him the best way to protect himself. He has to be

this way. He has to be ruthless. But outside the ring, we are gentle, we

are kind, we are gatekeepers within the community. When you, after the

Nick Blackwell fight were in the corner, three days later when Nick

Blackwell were still in a coma, you and your son spoke to the press and

talked about your desire to see your son fight even more for racial

slick, you said he was going to be a champion. Nick Blackwell's family

work in fury eight. This is what he said after he woke up, my family

begged him not to talk and if I could have one more knockout shot I

would love to lend it on the dual of Chris Eubank. LAUGHTER it is funny,

Nick did not say that. They are perhaps other people who may have

disseminated that but it is not to nick any favours... Did not make you

feel bad? No, not at all. It is petty and small and insignificant.

We are what we are. This is the fight business. The fact I have to

look after or have compassion towards him and I not in his

corner... Its magnanimous, it is magnanimous... It is what boxing...

It is what I would like people to see that boxing can project. That we

have chivalry, that we can be kind, object did. It is not just about

hurting the man. He was never in the fight. I mean, there are people who

say that fight was close, the fight was competitive. Listen, if a man

does not have the sense... If he has so much hard but not the skill to

protect his heart, then he is going to get hurt and it is for his corner

and the referees to be protective of him. Like I said two days before at

the press conference. years ago in 1998, it is sad that

you did not want your children to go into boxing. -- you said you did

not. Do you have a feeling that you failed, because your son is now

obviously very successful in boxing? Him being the British champion, that

was his calling, as he says. Me trying to stop him, for the three or

four years that I did, that only fuelled his imagination. It is not

that I didn't try, but when he got to about 15 or 16 years old, I had

to say, well, rather than lose my son, loses respect, I had to say,

well, if you want to do this than I am going to show you the way. --

lose his respect. Like you, he was getting into trouble at the time.

You are a troubled kid, you were thieving, you are in trouble with

the police. It was only when you ended up in New York and discovered

boxing that you turned your life around. Your own son, similarly, was

getting into trouble. You, to some people, bizarrely, then took him to

America and put him in the custodianship of an American woman

in Las Vegas for a while, so he could train in Vegas. You left him

behind. Was that because you felt that boxing have saved you, and you

concluded that may be boxing could save him to? If he could actually

get through, or bypassed the insurmountable hurdles that he would

experience in the melting pot of boxing which was lost Vegas at the

time, and still is, then yes, I thought... You gave your signup. No,

why would you gave that to me? You know that I will refute that. Of

course I didn't. If a youngster who is under the age of 17 or 18, is in

the United States, they have to have a guardian. Of course I did not give

my children up. It is nonsense. Let me make this point about

professional boxing, and the Olympics. Because I think... Well,

there is some talk of putting professional boxers, even the

greatest Oxus like Manny Pacquiao, into the Olympics. Yes, the idea

actually came from myself in 2012. Most people in boxing think it is a

terrible idea. The idea is that professionals would compete with

other professionals. So let's say that Chris Eubank Junior,

representing the UK, would face the top middleweight from America, or

Argentina. We will see how that pans out... Let me just make the point.

There is no money involved in the Olympics, so they would not be paid.

That is really the hurdle. But in my view, if you are a patriot, or if

you are representing your country, then the government of that country

will endorse you, and when the government endorses you, then

blue-chip as this is within the country will sponsor or endorse you

as well. -- blue-chip businesses. It seems like a fantastic idea to me,

and for anybody who says it is not, tell me where the floors are. Show

me the chink in the armour. I think it is a marvellous idea. You still

have big ideas for boxing, and now you are very involved with your

son's Korea. Indeed. I just wonder how hard it was for you to stop

being a boxer yourself. You have always been a guy who loves the

limelight, and since boxing you have done a series of reality TV shows

and other things. "Love the limelight"? I have earned my

position, sir. Fame was not thrust upon me. I had to achieve my fame,

and I am very respectful of it, and I guard it. It is what I have. It is

my true wealth. And it is a marvellous world. But have you

struggled, with all of the I'm A Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here, and

Celebrity Big Brother, and buying your fine clothes in Seville Grove,

have you struggled since boxing to find the adrenaline rush, the kit,

that boxing gave you? -- Savile Row. No, I am still the same person. I

did not do this part-time. I was obsessed with what I did. But were

you obsessed with the celebrity, with the fame that came with it?

Were you obsessed with the fame that came with being a champion boxer?

Was I insist that? No, not obsessed. It is what I am. I cannot help but

the response from my career and the fights which I have been involved

with, I cannot help but this has brought along this wonderful, this

extraordinary wealth of the hearts of the people. There is no better

wealth you can have. In my view, no, this is a privilege, it is a

responsibility, I have to encourage people to understand that it is a

marvellous world. But you enjoy... No, I don't enjoy it, I love it. You

can't live without it? Well, it is the life I made, it is the bad I

made. When I was taking that beating in the Michael Watson fight, I knew

that I had to stay there and take it. I knew that I could not win the

fight, even though it turned out otherwise. When I could not win, I

got up off the ground and struck him with a shot that got me the fight.

That type of behaviour, that... Immortalise me, for the time that I

am going to be alive. -- immortalised. I am talking about you

struggling to give up what boxing gave you, partly because you have

discussed boxing again, publicly. You are approaching your 50th

birthday, but you and one of your great adverse areas of the past,

Nigel Benn, have talked about going back into the ring and fighting

against. -- great adversaries. Is that going to happen? I would love

it to happen, for this reason. Most of the country would say that you

cannot do that, and that is exactly what I need. It has always been what

has motivated me to actually achieve. I have been forced to be a

world champion. If I was not for style would never have become a

world champion. It was because the public said I couldn't, and because

the public said I couldn't, that gave me the fuel to achieve my

objectives. But the point now, and this goes back to other parts of our

conversation, about the risks and the hurt and the pain involved in

boxing, you are now almost 50 years old. So is Nigel Benn. You should

not, for your own health, be going back into the ring, and IDSA be

British boxing board of control would not give you a licence to go

back into the ring. -- I dare say the British. At 80 years old, I want

to be jumping off high bridges into rivers. I want to be able to dance

and climb and fight. I want to be able to look at strawberries, I want

to look at nature. You also want money. Nigel Benn says the fight

might not happen because you are demanding 70% of the purse, that is

what he said. That is business. I am not a businessman, I am an idealist.

Do not speak to me about money. Are you prepared to go 50-50 with Nigel

Benn, which he says would be the basis of a certified? Maybe. For me,

that would be neither here or there. For me, it is about whether I can

re-engineer my body to withstand the terrifying ordeal that he is going

to put me through. The danger, I have never been more alive than I

have been in danger. -- then when I have been. I love risk. Do you

actually love boxing, though? I look at the recent reporting of boxing,

obviously we have had the tragedies in the ring with health, but we have

talked about that. There is also lots of sleaziness about the way

that boxing is promoted, about the different belts and the different

organisations that try to manipulate boxing. Drugs, as well. It is a

very, very horrible business in many different ways. So why go back into

it yourself? Because it needs me. What do you mean it needs you? It

doesn't need you. In my view, it does. You see, I am a gatekeeper. In

my view, boxing needs someone who will brigade rest of pressure. --

bring a Rath of pressure. So I am building might own promotional

company. We are looking for a broadcaster right now. Once I get

one, we will be churning out champions. Are you still saying it

is not about money? The way you are talking to me now speaks of money.

Money is part of life. You cannot get away from it. But there are so

many other principles which are so good for the community. Boxing is a

fantastic tool for youngsters. Youngsters today, the ones who are

crude, they are discarded, they are said to be no good. I am one of

those crude kids. Think of crude oil. It has to be refined. If you

refined these kids, who are crude, you can end up with individuals who

can contribute towards the system, as I am doing. All right. That is an

interesting way to leave our conversation. Chris Eubank, thank

you for being on HARDtalk. My pleasure. Thank you.

Sunday wasn't a bad day for many parts of the British Isles.

There was some low cloud to contend with in the east.

Notice the isobars on the western flank,