Manfred Weber MEP, Chairman EPP Group, European Parliament HARDtalk

Welcome to HARDtalk. Germany's voters have made it clear they are

unhappy with their chancellor, Angela Merkel. Into regional

elections this month her Conservative Party suffered a

humiliating defeat. The CSU in Bavaria or are not happy with her

either, hinting at a split unless she changes policy on immigration.

Manfred Weber is a MP for the CSU and also leads the largest political

group in the European Parliament. Is this the beginning of the end for

Angela Merkel? Manfred Weber, welcome to HARDtalk.

Can Angela Merkel win the elections in Germany next year? Absolutely.

That is possible and she is still strong in the CSU. There is no doubt

about her Chancellor ship. But there are discussions on how we deal with

immigration. This is one of the topics on the table, one of the

discussions we hold in the European Union and the European Parliament.

There we need to find a centre-right movement, so now we need to give

people a good orientation for the long-term. But we have had these two

regional elections showing a very bad result for the CD you. Its worst

ever result in Berlin, beaten into third place by a group called AFD.

Which is why a member of the AFD said that next year would be a

double for survival for Angela Merkel. Issue right? An election for

a politician is always a battle for survival. You need to remember that

not only immigration is an issue in Germany, but Germany is also

economically very strong. People are happy about Howard Germany is doing

economically and a lot of other things. The Chancellor is in a very

good situation. There is only one thing, and that is migration which

is strongly discussed. There I think two sides are important. One side is

as Angela Merkel said at the beginning, when he ago, that, yes,

we must help. We are economically strong and when we are powerful in

this regard, then we must help people who need our help. From

Syria. From regions of civil war. That was the message. On the other

hand, during the last weeks and months, Germany has rebalanced now.

Angela Merkel organised a European deal for Turkey. So we have through

the Balkan route and no new migrants. We had almost 10,000

migrants on the island of Lesbos in the Turkish Greek border. We managed

to reduce the numbers. Both things are helpful in the crisis, a

situation of crisis and on the other hand, bring everything under control

after what has been managed now. So why did your finance minister say

that of these elections it was the second massive wake-up call in two

weeks and there had been a long-term massive loss in trust among

traditional voters that threatened the conservative block? The

Conservatives, the Christian Democrats in the centre-right in the

is under pressure. But that is not a single thing in Germany. We look to

France, to the Netherlands. Look to Austria. All of Europe centre-right

is strongly under pressure and the answer is to simply do the job. To

manage it. That is not a job to go from one extreme to another. On the

one hand we have to to explain to people that there is a need,

especially for rate continent which defines itself as a Christian

continent that we have to help people. On the other hand everything

must be under control by the State. So we need strong border control and

we must fight against smugglers and that is what we have to do and I

must say we have achieved a lot of these things and if people are

having not so much trust in their politicians, the main message is to

please try to convince people with success. That is what I have to say.

Angela has been doing a lot of that in the last month. To be clear, you

do not think that it was a mistake for Germany to let in 1 million

refugees. Angela Merkel herself said a few days ago that the German

government may not have been perfect. There were missteps. She

did not say that it was a mistake to let 1 million people in. Do you

accept that. That it was the right thing to do? Frankly speaking, she

was very clear in her message that not everything was perfect and there

were mistakes. The government made mistakes. Many others made mistakes.

But a main message for me today is that we should not talk any more

about the past. The question is the future. I must say this. If you want

to convince people it makes no sense to discuss further the problems of

last year. But it is important. Forgive me for interrupting your

party, which is of course in a union with her, a union with a long

history, is saying that she must now accept a cap on refugees. A cap of

200,000. And she has in the past always said that she would not

accept any cap. There is now a question for the future to solve. My

party is insisting in figures, in clear figures what is possible for

Germany to accept, what is manageable for the German Society to

integrate into the country. And we have to talk about these things. In

the next month, you know, the electoral programme for the

elections next year in Germany and that is one of the open questions

between us. We need to find a common answer and a common wording and

message for all. The thing is, listening to your leader, it does

not sound that open. He said we will not back away from the 200,000

ceiling. It is about credibility, plain and simple. So what happens if

Angela Merkel does not accept that ceiling? That is up to the

negotiation process. You see now the developments in the last month, both

parts of the party, both sides will make steps in a possible answer for

the future for the people. It gives them an answer. I am sure that we

will deliver over the next month. In Germany there is not an alternative

between us so this is ongoing fighting amongst ourselves. We must

recognise and we have to show to people that the problem is not so

much internal. The main problem is not so much internal, the question

is what would be the policy of Germany if it would have had in the

last years and months left-wing government? It would be even, it

would have been even worse. That is why we must convince people about

how approach and, again, that is a balanced approach. I cannot accept

that anybody is telling people that we refuse all refugees. We must take

our responsibility and poor countries like Jordan, like Levin on

and Turkey are receiving a lot of migrants and helping a lot of people

and Europe must also. If you can not Angela Merkel to accept this cap of

200,000 which your leader has insisted on, called the two parties

split? Could the union end? No. The union will not end. We need to work

together to find a common understanding. And please trust me,

we will find an answer. But you will know it is people in your own party

who was even raising the idea that you could field a candidate, a rival

against Angela Merkel next year. Angela Merkel did not say whether

she wants to be elected at the moment. That is the situation today.

We must talk to each other. The first message in politics is always

about conversation, convincing people. We managed during the last

month, a lot lot in regard to people who are not really happy about the

decisions of last year. It is already a success from that part.

And now it is up to us long-term, a future orientated approach for this

migration policy and again I can assure you we will find that. OK,

well, let us look at what your party is proposing, particularly on

immigration policy which you say is of huge concern. It proposes that

priority be given to immigrants from our Western Christian culture, the

dual citizenship, be abolished. That even the idea that the silent time

could be limited. Of those things that you will say to the CPU that

they must accept? To the CDU that they must accept. When we say, for

example that the market in Germany is strong so we need workers in

Germany, then we as a party say first and foremost we must look to

Italy and to Spain. We have to look to regions that have a high

unemployment rate and it is better to include these people and it is

better to include those people. But you don't say that. The words used

in the document of your party is from our Western Christian culture

which is sending a clear message that people will be chosen on the

basis of their religion. Read it very carefully and you will see that

we are talking about migration, we are talking not about a question of

refugees. We received in the last 12 months thousands, ten thousands of

migrants. There is no problem. But if there is someone who is skilled

who was a practising Muslim in Spain, perhaps they are a surgeon

and they are next to a Catholic surgeon, a Christian surgeon, is

that surgeon gonna be chosen over the more someone? We not talking

talking about religion. Why does it save Western Christian culture then?

Well, the idea is simply then we have millions of people in the

European Union who have for the moment, no job prospects then it is

better to solve burst of all our internal problems. That is nothing

against Muslims and nothing against other religions. It is purely about

how integrated somebody is in our European way of life. Let me...

Equality between men and women. It is different to other regions in the

world and that is why it is simply logical to say first of all that is

look in our neighbourhood. Where we have unemployed people before we go

to Africa or to Asia. And this new document that your party has put

forward also wants a ban on the Burke and headscarf in public. It

says if people are unwilling to stop wearing them in public they should

find themselves another country. The idea is simply to show your face

and, you know, that is not only German discussion. We already have

in Belgium and in France legislation in place which is not allowing to

wear these publicly. It is always a question of how we interpret, let me

say, the public sphere, the public atmosphere. And I would say that in

the idea of inequality between men and women it is a fair discussion to

think about whether Islamic questions are acceptable in our

society. Which is why you are also proposing that headscarves be banned

in public service and the judiciary. The Green party chairwoman, Simone

Peter, has said that your leader clearly wants to make the CSU the

Bavarian sister party of the AFP which is the new wing populist party

that is doing so well. Are you chasing AFD voters? This is

nonsense. In Bavaria were speaking about a region in Germany with 12

million inhabitants. It is like Munich. At the moment we have in the

polls in Bavaria close to 50% of people who trust in the CSU. We are

strong party and that includes a lot of different people, a lot of

different interpretations. We do want to have any sort of lessons

about how we can help refugees. I want to speak about Brexit because

you are the leader of the largest group of EMPs. Will you miss the

British EMPs when they leave the European Parliament? From personal

contacts with them, absolutely because they contribute quite a lot

big way to European development. In the other way, we respect the

outcome of the referendum. So you will not be glad to see the backs of

the likes of Nigel Farage? I am sad, I am not happy that the decision. I

think we managed with David Cameron a good offer to be British but they

refused. It is not a debate any longer. It is an outcome of a

democratic discussion and now we must accept this. On the other hand

I must say that Brexit means of Brexit. When I hear this now from

Theresa May then I have to say that I cannot understand why other

politicians are asking for full implementation of the single market,

about being part of the research area in Europe, where the

universities are working together. Rex it means Rex it and not I want

to be part of the European Union. I have no understanding for. This is

To settle down and buy homes in the EU, is that wrong? First of all, we

need Article 50 approach from the government. What I see today is

London has no idea what they are asking for. How they can really have

an idea of what is an offering of a new relationship between Great

Britain and the EU. I see in London, a political disarray. There is no

clear direction. A few days after Brexit, the Scottish Prime Minister

in Brussels said to me that we were in favour of Europe so we have

specific interest so the risk of a split of country of Great Britain.

The damage of economy is enormous. When we get to it... The question

that I asked, when the negotiations start, can you see a situation where

British people will be able to travel freely, travel without visas,

study, live, perhaps, you brought up the research group, they will be

able to work with other universities, that all that can be

established under the new relationship? Sorry, the question is

not raised by me. I in favour of free travelling. I am a defender of

free movement. I fought for this. Not Boris Johnson and not Nigel

Farage. They were against this so why should I answer a question like

this? I am in favour of wet European peoples are not -- are equal. I

fight for the freedom of movement but I have to respect that the

British people don't accept this freedom of movement principle any

more. Then we are going back to a time where I don't want to live. But

it's a of restricting freedom of movement and probably we are talking

about Visa. What I learned from Johnson, it was not my idea. I fight

the idea that we are equally treated and we have freedom of movement. So

British people will need a these the rest of the EU? Is the Great Britain

is introducing a Visa to other Europeans and it will work the other

way around, it's logical. That is why we need first of all an idea

from great written what does the new relationship mean? For the moment,

sorry I have to say, not the Berlin has the problem, not Paris, not roam

copper London has a big problem with Brexit. -- Rome. I am not a person

to solve the problems of London. Is that after the vote, we need to work

immediately to stop uncertainty. Now we know Article 50 will not be in

until next year and sometimes it will be late next year. You accept

that that is now unavoidable, it will be a much slower process? We

from European level have no legal alternative. We have to wait the

Article 50. That is the procedure and we cannot force anybody to

request or make Article 50 procedure. That's why we are waiting

for London. I could only say having the question of freedom of movement

in mind. You are the people who are living today in London? The German,

the French? All the people from England who are living in Spain?

They need certainty. The government in Great Britain is it swiftly

coming up with the proposal. And starting Article 50. Then we can

negotiate and avoid any kind of further uncertainty. Even the former

president of the European Council made the point that you can't have

substantial Brexit talks until the new German government is in place

and that would be for another year. Well, everybody is waiting for the

reason may and for the government in Great Britain to give a proper

answer of the Brexit outcome. We need an idea, what are the new

relationships, what is the idea of Great Britain and we want to know it

do you want to leave now or don't you? There is no Article 50

activated for the moment. We have no problem with the German elections or

the French elections. It's a British question that is on the table and

frankly speaking, political impact European, there is a support when

you ask European citizens today what you think about Europe? For example,

in Germany, we have the highest support for the idea of European

Union since 1977. People aren't always happy about Brussels. There

is a lot of problems in Brussels we have to solve, for sure. But people

see with the Brexit thing that uncertainty for economy and for my

daily life at the citizens of European Union, to leave European

Union is the wrong answer. That is an impact we have to face. Dew thing

that will also play into the negotiations that Britain cannot be

seen to get a good deal? It needs to almost be punished for leaving the

EU? Sorry, nobody will be punished. Beta cannot but it good deal from

the Brussels point of view. It means that you want to leave, Great

Britain wants to leave the European Union. Immediately after saying

this, you want to you leave the European Union, everybody's telling

me but on this point, we don't want to leave because we want to be part

of the European Union. In the research area, they have a lot to be

part of the EU. For British people to have free movement, they want to

be part. Immediately, I see a lot of statements, politicians from Great

Britain tell me, from this point I want to join. I want to have the

rules of the European Union Nike single market. That is creating,

from my point of view, a little bit of cannot understand the position of

Great Britain. So you want to leave, that means no freedom of movement.

You want to leave, that means no single market. You want to me, that

means no access to research area and that is creating damage for all of

us. That is why I was fighting for yes, being part of this union but if

you want to leave, you have to live this is the result of leaving the

European Union. That is what they have to say. It has nothing to do

with punishment. Leaving means leaving and that is what I hear all

the day from the reason may, Brexit means Brexit. And then IM accused

that I respect the outcome of the Brexit. And that means leaving the

European Union, sorry. Just after the vote, there was something

written about tensions including refugees. It said the EU has broken

down and ceased to satisfy its citizens' needs and aspirations. It

is heading for a disorderly disintegration that will leave

Europe worse off than where it had been had the EU not been brought

into existence. It speaks to something that many people suggest

that there is a crisis of democracy. There is not. The principle of

democracy is good and is convincing for the people. We have a crisis of

leadership in the European Union. Look to David Cameron, he made his

whole career in Great Britain in accusing the European Union.

Bureaucrats and this anti- whatever. A lot of politicians made their

political gain from accusing Brussels from all their problems.

Before the referendum, he changed his mind and try to convince the

people that the EU was a good team. That is not convincing. In Brussels,

people are not always perfect, OK but the main debate is this still a

national debate. We need politicians who takes the responsibility and

showed the people, sorry, that we are living in a globalised. How you

want to defend Great Britain steel sector against the Chinese with

risking a trade war with China? Good luck when Great Britain wants to win

a trade war with China. When we as Europeans are defending our steel

industry, then we are really powerful, 500 million inhabitants

and consumers but each individual member of the European Union cannot

win such a war. That is why I am sure that at the end the European

Union approach, the European Union approach is not under pressure. It

is the politicians especially on the European national level have to

convince people this is the only way for all of us to defend our European

way of life. Manfred Weber, thank you very much. Thank you.