Dmitry Peskov, Spokesman for Vladimir Putin HARDtalk

Now on BBC News, it's time for HARDtalk.

Welcome to HARDtalk, I Stephen Sackur.

It is a year since Russia's military intervention in Syria began

and on this anniversary, Russia's warplanes are aiding

and abetting President Assad's forces in a ferocious sort

Hundreds of civilians, many of them children,

Forget talk of cooperation over a ceasefire, relations

between Russia and the West on a host of France are now toxic.

Forget talk of cooperation over a ceasefire, relations

between Russia and the West on a host of fronts are now toxic.

My guest is President Putin's chief spokesman Dmitry Peskov.

What does Moscow gain from heightened tension?

Dmitry Peskov in Moscow, welcome to HARDtalk.

I want to devote much of our conversation to Syria,

but I think I have to begin with the report that's just come out

from international prosecutors concerning flight MH17,

the Malaysian Airlines about were shot down

They said the evidence points to a missile that was made

in Russia, that was brought into eastern Ukraine from Russia

and the missile launcher which then returned to Russia.

Well, first of all we have to admit that this is a preliminary result.

We understand from the statements that were made today

that the investigation will continue till 2018, so we still have to wait

There are still lots of unclear things.

There are still lots of contradictions and we all

have to find answers to the contradictions.

From the very beginning, actually it's important to say

that we do support the idea of overwhelming and exhaustive

investigation of that disaster and from the very beginning Russia

expressed its will to be a full-time participant

We do regret that unfortunately we were refused to take part

in that investigation, although indirectly where still

a part of that investigative process because we are constantly providing

information upon request by the investigative

You haven't actually answered my question though, Mr Peskov.

I just want to know whether you accept the findings

that we have just seen which said that the missile which brought down

the plane came from a missile launcher which was from Russia

There is nothing to accept or to deny.

First of all, I repeat, these are preliminary statements

We still have to continue investigating.

With respect, the prosecuting team has gathered

This happened more than two years ago.

It has been an exhaustive investigation.

They went to Moscow, they asked for help from you.

You're different agencies, they say, did not fully cooperate,

but they have come up with these conclusions.

You can call them preliminary if you like, but are you denying

Well, first of all, we cannot accept as a final truth what they say and I

bet you haven't seen any proof of that statement. We have to be very

precise. It is a very serious tragedy and we cannot operate on

bold statements without any proof or any details. Unfortunately we are

still missing lots of the details to be able to find ourselves in the

right to say that this was that way and that weapon came from that part,

from that direction this direction. In the past you have categorically

ruled out that it was a Russian missile that brought the plane down,

but you're not ruling it out today? If you remember, we have been ruling

out and I have been ruling out the fact that any Russian weapons were

shipped to Ukraine. Any Russian army members, any Russian troops were

inside Ukraine and we are still ruling out that possibility. You

know very well but the downing of MH17 was one of the big factors in

the Europeans and Americans toughening up sanctions. Given the

way this prosecutors report has been received in the Netherlands, Europe

and the US as well, you have to accept that the sanctions regime is

not going to be relaxed any time soon. This is a perfect example of a

logic approach. You said that sanctions were introduced and

strengthened because of the downing of the plane, but it was done before

any investigative results. So they don't need any results of any

investigation to come to a conclusion. This is a perfect

example of a logic approach. You call it a logic... Identity any

connection. I repeat, this report is still yet to come. We have to be

patient and we have to be ready to put on the table or the arrears, or

data and get rid of the fourth data and to rely upon the only true

choice that will be on the table in order to be able to come to the

final conclusion. You call the West's conclusion in logic, but

whatever you call it, tensions between Moscow and the West are

extraordinarily high right now, not so much thinking of MH17, but the

situation in Syria. Let's talk about Syria. In the last week your Evalds

have been involved with the Syrians in the most ferocious bombardment of

Aleppo we have seen in more than five years of the Symbian conflict.

Hundreds of people have been killed, a very large number of them

children. -- Symbian conflict. Why are you doing this? What is the

source of this? The Red Cross, the red Crescent, I don't know how many

different sources you need. The BBC has just made a documentary, filmed

inside Aleppo over the last ten days. We have seen for ourselves the

impact of the bunker busting bombs. There is no doubt this is happening

and that is no doubt from the hospitals that have been hit of the

number of casualties. There are different sources and documentaries

you can rely upon and the war is going on and understandably the

cessation of the hostile activities is not active right now and we are

too far away from the situation of a ceasefire in Aleppo. Unfortunately

we see that the agreement between Moscow and Washington that was made,

a set of agreements, was not introduced into reality and now the

situation is getting worse. The question is very simple. Why are you

deploying, for example, these bunker busting bombs which reach down into

basements, kill civilians where they are sheltering and are also, and we

know this from multiple sources, hitting hospitals, including those

codenamed M ten and M2 where you are now, it seems, targeting medical

facilities themselves in a clear violation of the Geneva conventions.

No, this is out of the question. These are force information and

there is no possibility that Russian air force can be involved in this

kind of activities. So who is doing it then, Mr Peskov? Excuse me washed

and mark who is doing it? Well, we still have questions in Syria. Who

destroyed the convoy with humanitarian aid? We don't know.

Well be United Nations special envoy and many others believe your forces

did that and if it wasn't your forces, it was the Syrian air force

operating with your drones and your intelligence. So you exclude the

possibility it was a drone of the US-led coalition? I quote to you

that the United Nations special envoy, sources from inside and

outside the western powers who say there is clear evidence that to SU

24 planes were in the area at the time and who are sure that it was

either Russian or Syrian air force. Why can't you rely upon information

of Russian military that saw on the radar traces of a fighter drone at

the same time being above the area? What about your story that actually,

it was a ground attack. You claimed a few days ago that the damage to

the 18th, I think, trucks out of 31 in the convoy that were destroyed,

you suggested it was a ground attack, not to air attack. Using to

be changing your story. No, we are not, we're not changing the story.

After the ceasefire, Syrian troops started to withdraw and they were

supposed to withdraw to a position equal distance from the Castello

Road in certain areas and they started withdrawing process and

right in the middle of the withdrawal they were attacked. First

they were attacked by US led coalition that was presumed as a

mistake, but right after that attack the offensive by Nasrallah had

started. They found themselves in the middle of the offensive whilst

fulfilling the agreement between Moscow and Washington. It is a very

controversial situation. I get the sense we are not going to agree on

what the evidence says regarding the attack on the convoy. The bigger

question is the one I have asked you which you have not answered. Let me

put it to you another way. Let me give you a quote from the adviser to

the Syrian medical Society. He said in Aleppo right now we are seeing

the extermination of a major city by starvation and by the killing of its

85,000 children, using all modern weaponry is. Now the Russian air

force is involved alongside the Syrian forces in the current assault

on Aleppo. Does that kind of testimony and does the picture that

comes out of Aleppo today give you any pause, make you rethink what you

and the Russian military are doing today? I strictly rule out the

possibility of Russian military forces, air strike forces being

involved in an offensive against civilians. This is out of

possibility. The Russian air force are still performing the task in

terms of fighting terrorist organisations. In that particular

region it is. -- Nusra. The situation in the western part of

Aleppo is different. You would presume that seven checkpoints were

established in eastern Aleppo, in western Aleppo and one checkpoint

has been established between eastern Aleppo and Western Aleppo in order

to assist civilians to escape from the region being controlled by the

terrorists. Just the final repeated question about the bunker busting

bombs. They are made in Russia. The special envoy for the UI and said we

hear of the use of these bunker busting bombs. -- UN. We see the

pictures of the large craters. If this is confirmed, the systematic

indiscriminate use of such weapons in areas where civilians are

present, this may amount to war crimes. First of all, if you use

words like we here about the facts and we use the picture, you cannot

rely upon those words or pictures. If you are speaking about such

serious and dangerous substances such as as a war against terror, you

cannot rely on pictures. You can rely only on specified and

professional sources of information. Militaries, investigative bodies, so

one and so forth. I will never agree with this allegation. It is clear

that Russia stands accused of war crimes. We cannot agree with this

accusation. Russian military forces are acting in a state it accordance

with international law and all the weapons that are being used, they in

no way contradict with the provisions of international

agreements. What do you think when you hear the British ambassador to

the UN said that Russia is partnering with the Syrian regime to

carry out war crimes when his colleague the US ambassador to the

UN says what Russia is sponsoring an doing is not Counter Terrorism

Command it is barbarism. Two youths dismissed that as propaganda? We

treated as diplomatic or misbehaviour. There is a very simple

way of answering, saying you are doing friendship with the Al

Nasrallah guys are newer trying to hide them. It's not the proper way

to things. The best way is to behave properly and cooperate military

wives. This is the only way to do business there and the only way to

save lives of hundreds and thousands of people. One more thought on

Aleppo and we will move onto bigger picture. The Syrian government has

made it plain it is preparing a major ground offensive to go with

this aerial bombardment in Aleppo. We know there are around a quarter

of a million civilians still living in the east of the city. Is Russia

going to be supporting a major ground operation which one can only

think will leave to humanitarian catastrophe? I cannot tell you what

operations Russia will support because this is the responsibility

of our military, but at the same time I can assure you that Russia

will continue to do whatever is necessary to finalise the battle

with terror and terrorist organisations accepted by the United

Nations in Syria. Are you saying that everybody that leaves in East

Aleppo is in some way a terrorist or complicit in terrorism. There are a

quarter of a million civilians there, Mr Peskov. Unfortunately we

still failed to arrange this decision and I would like to remind

you it was the obligation of the United States. Unfortunately they

failed to do that and that is why we are facing this tragic development

around Aleppo, and I would like to remind you that all the negotiations

between Lavrov and John Terry, the negotiations between the Russian

military and the American military, they are not about stopping the

fight against terror. -- Kerry. Strikes against terrorists will

continue and our joint task is to exclude civilians from that battle.

What you I am sure are aware of is that your actions over the last ten

days or so have led John Kerry to say do you seriously think we are

going to engage, his phrase, in more happy talk in Geneva, given what you

and Asad's forces are doing? There is no further scope for diplomacy,

or do you see something I don't? I would rather agree with you. Time

and possibilities are shrinking. In ability of Americans to cope with a

mixture of terrorists and opposition unfortunately making the whole

process harder and harder. We are extremely sorry about that because

we are determined to continue this process, but of course we cannot do

it alone. It has to be said that your strategy in Syria doesn't seem

to be working because back in the spring you told all of us and the

international media that Russia was beginning its pull-out from Syria

and yet here we are with this ferocious assault on Aleppo

involving your forces happening right now. What has gone wrong with

your idea that you could get into Syria, you could buttress Asad's

position and you could pull out quickly. That simply has not

happened. Everything is going and developing, not without

difficulties, but is going on properly. This is what you want to

be happening, is it? You know what is important about Russia's

operation in Syria, the most important thing, that Daesh and

Nusra are not sitting in Damascus. This is only because of the support

of Russian military planes. The support of legitimate Syrian army.

Many people inside Russia and as well as outside will say that if you

make the intervention in Russia, you will find a way of cooperating with

the Western powers that might allow you to win a relaxation of the

sections which I've been imposed of your actions in Ukraine, but that

strategy has failed. I think that if you are someone here we must go what

would you prefer, to ease sanctions or to have another failed state in

Syria, like we have in Libya, I would say no one is caring about

sanctions here, but everyone will prefer to liberate Syria and said

Syrians from terrorists. At the end the terrorists are a huge threat for

us. It's interesting that you think no one is caring about sanctions in

Russia with your in Connolly set to shrink, your poverty rate rising to

15%, with the Russian people feeling the impact of deceased -- of an

economic squeeze. The cost of this is 30 billion rubles a year. This is

something you can't afford for the long-term. Well, we still can afford

it. We still can afford it and of course we are facing economic

difficulties, although it is a good possibility for us to think about a

new style economy that we have been dreaming of. But trust me, we are

prosperous enough, we are still prosperous enough to afford in type

terror operations globally. Those are the words of a superpower, but

you are far from being a superpower. The situation is not that bad. You

learn lessons like other countries do from previous interventions. You

have learnt lessons, not good ones, from Afghanistan, they use it on the

one-year anniversary of your intervention in Syria. You look at

the map of Syria today and the battle lines aren't that different

from a year ago. The truth is you have been sucked into a conflict

that you now have no idea how you will get out of. I repeat, try to

look from a different angle. We have saved Syria from being occupied from

100% by the terrorists. Would you prefer Syria being a failed state

and would you prefer hundreds of thousands of poor civilians mixed

with terrorists running in directions of Europe without any

control? So you first told us your forces were pulling back in March.

It is now late September, we are ending towards the end of 2016. When

will Russian forces pull back from Syria? When it is decided by the

President, the chief commander. When the operational objectives are

fulfilled 100%. I am suggesting to you he has no idea because there is

no prospect of that goal being achieved. Well if we still see a

deficit of preparation from our partners, especially in Washington,

then it will be a very hard job for us. Dmitry Peskov, we have two end

there, but thank you very much for joining me from Moscow. It was my

pleasure. Thank you. Hello. I think if we look back at

the week were about to have we will say it's pretty changeable. No two