Dmitry Peskov, Spokesman for Vladimir Putin HARDtalk


Dmitry Peskov, Spokesman for Vladimir Putin

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Now on BBC News, it's time for HARDtalk.

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Welcome to HARDtalk, I Stephen Sackur.

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It is a year since Russia's military intervention in Syria began

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and on this anniversary, Russia's warplanes are aiding

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and abetting President Assad's forces in a ferocious sort

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Hundreds of civilians, many of them children,

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Forget talk of cooperation over a ceasefire, relations

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between Russia and the West on a host of France are now toxic.

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Forget talk of cooperation over a ceasefire, relations

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between Russia and the West on a host of fronts are now toxic.

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My guest is President Putin's chief spokesman Dmitry Peskov.

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What does Moscow gain from heightened tension?

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Dmitry Peskov in Moscow, welcome to HARDtalk.

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I want to devote much of our conversation to Syria,

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but I think I have to begin with the report that's just come out

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from international prosecutors concerning flight MH17,

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the Malaysian Airlines about were shot down

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They said the evidence points to a missile that was made

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in Russia, that was brought into eastern Ukraine from Russia

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and the missile launcher which then returned to Russia.

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Well, first of all we have to admit that this is a preliminary result.

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We understand from the statements that were made today

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that the investigation will continue till 2018, so we still have to wait

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There are still lots of unclear things.

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There are still lots of contradictions and we all

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have to find answers to the contradictions.

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From the very beginning, actually it's important to say

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that we do support the idea of overwhelming and exhaustive

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investigation of that disaster and from the very beginning Russia

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expressed its will to be a full-time participant

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We do regret that unfortunately we were refused to take part

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in that investigation, although indirectly where still

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a part of that investigative process because we are constantly providing

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information upon request by the investigative

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You haven't actually answered my question though, Mr Peskov.

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I just want to know whether you accept the findings

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that we have just seen which said that the missile which brought down

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the plane came from a missile launcher which was from Russia

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There is nothing to accept or to deny.

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First of all, I repeat, these are preliminary statements

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We still have to continue investigating.

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With respect, the prosecuting team has gathered

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This happened more than two years ago.

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It has been an exhaustive investigation.

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They went to Moscow, they asked for help from you.

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You're different agencies, they say, did not fully cooperate,

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but they have come up with these conclusions.

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You can call them preliminary if you like, but are you denying

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Well, first of all, we cannot accept as a final truth what they say and I

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bet you haven't seen any proof of that statement. We have to be very

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precise. It is a very serious tragedy and we cannot operate on

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bold statements without any proof or any details. Unfortunately we are

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still missing lots of the details to be able to find ourselves in the

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right to say that this was that way and that weapon came from that part,

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from that direction this direction. In the past you have categorically

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ruled out that it was a Russian missile that brought the plane down,

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but you're not ruling it out today? If you remember, we have been ruling

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out and I have been ruling out the fact that any Russian weapons were

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shipped to Ukraine. Any Russian army members, any Russian troops were

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inside Ukraine and we are still ruling out that possibility. You

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know very well but the downing of MH17 was one of the big factors in

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the Europeans and Americans toughening up sanctions. Given the

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way this prosecutors report has been received in the Netherlands, Europe

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and the US as well, you have to accept that the sanctions regime is

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not going to be relaxed any time soon. This is a perfect example of a

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logic approach. You said that sanctions were introduced and

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strengthened because of the downing of the plane, but it was done before

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any investigative results. So they don't need any results of any

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investigation to come to a conclusion. This is a perfect

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example of a logic approach. You call it a logic... Identity any

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connection. I repeat, this report is still yet to come. We have to be

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patient and we have to be ready to put on the table or the arrears, or

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data and get rid of the fourth data and to rely upon the only true

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choice that will be on the table in order to be able to come to the

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final conclusion. You call the West's conclusion in logic, but

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whatever you call it, tensions between Moscow and the West are

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extraordinarily high right now, not so much thinking of MH17, but the

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situation in Syria. Let's talk about Syria. In the last week your Evalds

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have been involved with the Syrians in the most ferocious bombardment of

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Aleppo we have seen in more than five years of the Symbian conflict.

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Hundreds of people have been killed, a very large number of them

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children. -- Symbian conflict. Why are you doing this? What is the

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source of this? The Red Cross, the red Crescent, I don't know how many

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different sources you need. The BBC has just made a documentary, filmed

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inside Aleppo over the last ten days. We have seen for ourselves the

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impact of the bunker busting bombs. There is no doubt this is happening

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and that is no doubt from the hospitals that have been hit of the

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number of casualties. There are different sources and documentaries

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you can rely upon and the war is going on and understandably the

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cessation of the hostile activities is not active right now and we are

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too far away from the situation of a ceasefire in Aleppo. Unfortunately

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we see that the agreement between Moscow and Washington that was made,

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a set of agreements, was not introduced into reality and now the

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situation is getting worse. The question is very simple. Why are you

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deploying, for example, these bunker busting bombs which reach down into

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basements, kill civilians where they are sheltering and are also, and we

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know this from multiple sources, hitting hospitals, including those

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codenamed M ten and M2 where you are now, it seems, targeting medical

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facilities themselves in a clear violation of the Geneva conventions.

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No, this is out of the question. These are force information and

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there is no possibility that Russian air force can be involved in this

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kind of activities. So who is doing it then, Mr Peskov? Excuse me washed

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and mark who is doing it? Well, we still have questions in Syria. Who

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destroyed the convoy with humanitarian aid? We don't know.

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Well be United Nations special envoy and many others believe your forces

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did that and if it wasn't your forces, it was the Syrian air force

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operating with your drones and your intelligence. So you exclude the

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possibility it was a drone of the US-led coalition? I quote to you

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that the United Nations special envoy, sources from inside and

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outside the western powers who say there is clear evidence that to SU

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24 planes were in the area at the time and who are sure that it was

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either Russian or Syrian air force. Why can't you rely upon information

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of Russian military that saw on the radar traces of a fighter drone at

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the same time being above the area? What about your story that actually,

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it was a ground attack. You claimed a few days ago that the damage to

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the 18th, I think, trucks out of 31 in the convoy that were destroyed,

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you suggested it was a ground attack, not to air attack. Using to

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be changing your story. No, we are not, we're not changing the story.

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After the ceasefire, Syrian troops started to withdraw and they were

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supposed to withdraw to a position equal distance from the Castello

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Road in certain areas and they started withdrawing process and

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right in the middle of the withdrawal they were attacked. First

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they were attacked by US led coalition that was presumed as a

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mistake, but right after that attack the offensive by Nasrallah had

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started. They found themselves in the middle of the offensive whilst

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fulfilling the agreement between Moscow and Washington. It is a very

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controversial situation. I get the sense we are not going to agree on

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what the evidence says regarding the attack on the convoy. The bigger

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question is the one I have asked you which you have not answered. Let me

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put it to you another way. Let me give you a quote from the adviser to

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the Syrian medical Society. He said in Aleppo right now we are seeing

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the extermination of a major city by starvation and by the killing of its

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85,000 children, using all modern weaponry is. Now the Russian air

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force is involved alongside the Syrian forces in the current assault

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on Aleppo. Does that kind of testimony and does the picture that

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comes out of Aleppo today give you any pause, make you rethink what you

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and the Russian military are doing today? I strictly rule out the

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possibility of Russian military forces, air strike forces being

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involved in an offensive against civilians. This is out of

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possibility. The Russian air force are still performing the task in

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terms of fighting terrorist organisations. In that particular

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region it is. -- Nusra. The situation in the western part of

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Aleppo is different. You would presume that seven checkpoints were

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established in eastern Aleppo, in western Aleppo and one checkpoint

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has been established between eastern Aleppo and Western Aleppo in order

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to assist civilians to escape from the region being controlled by the

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terrorists. Just the final repeated question about the bunker busting

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bombs. They are made in Russia. The special envoy for the UI and said we

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hear of the use of these bunker busting bombs. -- UN. We see the

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pictures of the large craters. If this is confirmed, the systematic

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indiscriminate use of such weapons in areas where civilians are

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present, this may amount to war crimes. First of all, if you use

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words like we here about the facts and we use the picture, you cannot

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rely upon those words or pictures. If you are speaking about such

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serious and dangerous substances such as as a war against terror, you

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cannot rely on pictures. You can rely only on specified and

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professional sources of information. Militaries, investigative bodies, so

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one and so forth. I will never agree with this allegation. It is clear

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that Russia stands accused of war crimes. We cannot agree with this

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accusation. Russian military forces are acting in a state it accordance

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with international law and all the weapons that are being used, they in

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no way contradict with the provisions of international

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agreements. What do you think when you hear the British ambassador to

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the UN said that Russia is partnering with the Syrian regime to

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carry out war crimes when his colleague the US ambassador to the

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UN says what Russia is sponsoring an doing is not Counter Terrorism

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Command it is barbarism. Two youths dismissed that as propaganda? We

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treated as diplomatic or misbehaviour. There is a very simple

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way of answering, saying you are doing friendship with the Al

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Nasrallah guys are newer trying to hide them. It's not the proper way

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to things. The best way is to behave properly and cooperate military

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wives. This is the only way to do business there and the only way to

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save lives of hundreds and thousands of people. One more thought on

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Aleppo and we will move onto bigger picture. The Syrian government has

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made it plain it is preparing a major ground offensive to go with

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this aerial bombardment in Aleppo. We know there are around a quarter

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of a million civilians still living in the east of the city. Is Russia

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going to be supporting a major ground operation which one can only

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think will leave to humanitarian catastrophe? I cannot tell you what

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operations Russia will support because this is the responsibility

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of our military, but at the same time I can assure you that Russia

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will continue to do whatever is necessary to finalise the battle

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with terror and terrorist organisations accepted by the United

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Nations in Syria. Are you saying that everybody that leaves in East

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Aleppo is in some way a terrorist or complicit in terrorism. There are a

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quarter of a million civilians there, Mr Peskov. Unfortunately we

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still failed to arrange this decision and I would like to remind

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you it was the obligation of the United States. Unfortunately they

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failed to do that and that is why we are facing this tragic development

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around Aleppo, and I would like to remind you that all the negotiations

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between Lavrov and John Terry, the negotiations between the Russian

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military and the American military, they are not about stopping the

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fight against terror. -- Kerry. Strikes against terrorists will

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continue and our joint task is to exclude civilians from that battle.

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What you I am sure are aware of is that your actions over the last ten

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days or so have led John Kerry to say do you seriously think we are

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going to engage, his phrase, in more happy talk in Geneva, given what you

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and Asad's forces are doing? There is no further scope for diplomacy,

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or do you see something I don't? I would rather agree with you. Time

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and possibilities are shrinking. In ability of Americans to cope with a

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mixture of terrorists and opposition unfortunately making the whole

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process harder and harder. We are extremely sorry about that because

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we are determined to continue this process, but of course we cannot do

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it alone. It has to be said that your strategy in Syria doesn't seem

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to be working because back in the spring you told all of us and the

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international media that Russia was beginning its pull-out from Syria

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and yet here we are with this ferocious assault on Aleppo

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involving your forces happening right now. What has gone wrong with

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your idea that you could get into Syria, you could buttress Asad's

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position and you could pull out quickly. That simply has not

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happened. Everything is going and developing, not without

:20:07.:20:08.

difficulties, but is going on properly. This is what you want to

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be happening, is it? You know what is important about Russia's

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operation in Syria, the most important thing, that Daesh and

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Nusra are not sitting in Damascus. This is only because of the support

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of Russian military planes. The support of legitimate Syrian army.

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Many people inside Russia and as well as outside will say that if you

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make the intervention in Russia, you will find a way of cooperating with

:20:48.:20:50.

the Western powers that might allow you to win a relaxation of the

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sections which I've been imposed of your actions in Ukraine, but that

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strategy has failed. I think that if you are someone here we must go what

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would you prefer, to ease sanctions or to have another failed state in

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Syria, like we have in Libya, I would say no one is caring about

:21:13.:21:17.

sanctions here, but everyone will prefer to liberate Syria and said

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Syrians from terrorists. At the end the terrorists are a huge threat for

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us. It's interesting that you think no one is caring about sanctions in

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Russia with your in Connolly set to shrink, your poverty rate rising to

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15%, with the Russian people feeling the impact of deceased -- of an

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economic squeeze. The cost of this is 30 billion rubles a year. This is

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something you can't afford for the long-term. Well, we still can afford

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it. We still can afford it and of course we are facing economic

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difficulties, although it is a good possibility for us to think about a

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new style economy that we have been dreaming of. But trust me, we are

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prosperous enough, we are still prosperous enough to afford in type

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terror operations globally. Those are the words of a superpower, but

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you are far from being a superpower. The situation is not that bad. You

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learn lessons like other countries do from previous interventions. You

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have learnt lessons, not good ones, from Afghanistan, they use it on the

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one-year anniversary of your intervention in Syria. You look at

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the map of Syria today and the battle lines aren't that different

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from a year ago. The truth is you have been sucked into a conflict

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that you now have no idea how you will get out of. I repeat, try to

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look from a different angle. We have saved Syria from being occupied from

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100% by the terrorists. Would you prefer Syria being a failed state

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and would you prefer hundreds of thousands of poor civilians mixed

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with terrorists running in directions of Europe without any

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control? So you first told us your forces were pulling back in March.

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It is now late September, we are ending towards the end of 2016. When

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will Russian forces pull back from Syria? When it is decided by the

:23:37.:23:44.

President, the chief commander. When the operational objectives are

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fulfilled 100%. I am suggesting to you he has no idea because there is

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no prospect of that goal being achieved. Well if we still see a

:23:53.:24:01.

deficit of preparation from our partners, especially in Washington,

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then it will be a very hard job for us. Dmitry Peskov, we have two end

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there, but thank you very much for joining me from Moscow. It was my

:24:12.:24:13.

pleasure. Thank you. Hello. I think if we look back at

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the week were about to have we will say it's pretty changeable. No two

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