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Now on BBC News, it's time for HARDtalk. | :00:00. | :00:11. | |
Welcome to HARDtalk with me, that Zeinab Badawi. My guess is you is | :00:12. | :00:22. | |
Democratic Party insider, Jake Sullivan, a key adviser to Democrat | :00:23. | :00:26. | |
such as Hillary Clinton, when she was Secretary of State, as well as | :00:27. | :00:29. | |
on the campaign trail, last year. Donald Trump has attracted a lot of | :00:30. | :00:34. | |
criticism at home and abroad over his rhetoric and style of | :00:35. | :00:38. | |
leadership. But is he not proving more effective in important foreign | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
policy issues like the fight against extremists, than the previous | :00:43. | :00:51. | |
democratic administration? -- Democratic. | :00:52. | :01:10. | |
Jake Sullivan, thank you for joining us. As a key adviser to Hillary | :01:11. | :01:21. | |
Clinton, can give be objective about the Trump administration? Not | :01:22. | :01:24. | |
entirely objective. I would have to put my bias on the table. I spent | :01:25. | :01:28. | |
two years trade to stop him from getting into the Oval Office. But I | :01:29. | :01:32. | |
think a lot of the things that we predicted during the campaign about | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
his lack of it as though others have borne out over the last six months. | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
So I have tried to take a step back and tragedy is fair-minded as | :01:41. | :01:43. | |
possible and assessing what he is doing. But the zeitgeist was or with | :01:44. | :01:47. | |
within, wasn't it? He was much more in June with what the voters' | :01:48. | :01:53. | |
proteas were. I would argue that he had a lot of a Shawville, but when a | :01:54. | :02:00. | |
came to what they cared about, I think it came to what they cared | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
about, I think I do more with Hillary Clinton and her approach. -- | :02:05. | :02:12. | |
tuned in with their priorities. So can be seen as a battle between 70 | :02:13. | :02:21. | |
with the policies and somebody who could appeal to voters. Just turn | :02:22. | :02:31. | |
into a stream must -- just turn into extremist, Donald Trump is much more | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
assertive on terror than resident Obama ever was. He is more assertive | :02:36. | :02:42. | |
on Twitter than President Obama ever was. He certainly speaking much more | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
loudly. But is the carrying the biggest it? Be truly bigger stick. I | :02:47. | :02:50. | |
would say that the fight against Isis in Iraq and Syria is an | :02:51. | :02:57. | |
extension of the above policy, not a fundamental change in policy. -- the | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
truly. Has he added more firepower? Yes, but has been on a slow path | :03:03. | :03:11. | |
savaged by President Obama. -- started by. You mention Afghanistan. | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
He dropped the "Mother of All Bombs", as it was known, in April, | :03:16. | :03:21. | |
on a site in Nangarhar, and it is the largest non- nuclear, the most | :03:22. | :03:26. | |
powerful non-nuclear weapon available. That would sound as | :03:27. | :03:29. | |
though he was very much more assertive than President Obama. The | :03:30. | :03:33. | |
dropping of a single bomb on a tunnel complex in rural Afghanistan, | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
I don't think is a good indication of the whole policy that he is | :03:38. | :03:41. | |
pursuing. It is true that he did that. Would rack Obama have done it? | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
He never took the "Mother of All Bombs" of the table. If an | :03:47. | :03:51. | |
opportunity had made itself available, a bomb that President | :03:52. | :03:56. | |
Obama had in his time, he would have used it. The target presented itself | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
or President Trump, and so use it, but I do see that as a departure | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
from American doctrine. President Obama seem to be pretty desperate to | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
get out of Afghanistan. Five years ago, there what 100,000 American | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
troops there, now that it is below 10,000. And we have seen a rise in | :04:14. | :04:19. | |
security incidents in Afghanistan is far more than since 2007, and the | :04:20. | :04:25. | |
last year and a quarter or so. It is true that President Obama troop down | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
from 100,000 to under 10,000, but before he left office, he fixed | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
another. He said he was not earned right down further, that they would | :04:35. | :04:40. | |
keep troops there. Not to take a whole territory, but to train and | :04:41. | :04:44. | |
buys Afghanistan the security forces. Now Donald Trump is talking | :04:45. | :04:47. | |
about adding a few thousand more, but to carry out the day mission. | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
But he was too said Maureen, rather than drawdown, as Barack Obama did. | :04:53. | :04:56. | |
That was the more assertive. It is interesting, because what Donald | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
Trump is talking about doing is adding more troops, but he is asking | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
our Nato partners to step up and add at least half of them. So even he | :05:06. | :05:11. | |
realises that simply insert a huge numbers of American troops into | :05:12. | :05:14. | |
Afghanistan is not a winning strategy. In that way, I think his | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
campaign rhetoric, and what is realised about the realities of this | :05:19. | :05:21. | |
fight, there is a gap between them. If you want to argue that Donald | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
Trump is different to Barack Obama in foreign policy, you will get no | :05:27. | :05:30. | |
argument from me. The point I am making is that when it comes to the | :05:31. | :05:34. | |
fight between Isis and extremist groups, Donald Trump is carrying | :05:35. | :05:41. | |
forward Barack Obama's strategy. -- the fight with Isis and extra | :05:42. | :05:45. | |
mysteries. Under the key issue that President Obama pursued during his | :05:46. | :05:48. | |
time, the Iranian nuclear deal, resident Trump said during his | :05:49. | :05:54. | |
campaign that he would care and other net -- he would turn up on day | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
one. And he is not. That should please you. That does. But our | :05:59. | :06:05. | |
military and partners is in the region, as does the Israeli security | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
establishment, they realise that this deal improve security in the | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
region. Psion have is the continuity on this issue and then carrying it | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
forward. But I do worry that some of the Stosur Donald Trump is taking | :06:19. | :06:21. | |
the could make a conflict with the reigning state more likely. And that | :06:22. | :06:31. | |
would put American lives and stick -- at risk. Looking at Bashar Assad, | :06:32. | :06:35. | |
the President there, very much an ally of Iran, but he has been | :06:36. | :06:43. | |
applauding Donald Trump for his intervention. This following the | :06:44. | :06:52. | |
chemical attack with hundreds dead. Was it a good thing that did it? | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
Batting was a good thing. But it is a good thing that President Trump | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
decided to respond to the chemical weapons attack by the Assad regime, | :07:01. | :07:07. | |
striking the airbase from which the chemical weapons were launched. The | :07:08. | :07:11. | |
batting was that it was not tied to any broader strategy and Syria | :07:12. | :07:15. | |
whatsoever. If you breast Donald Trump today on what his solution is | :07:16. | :07:20. | |
to be Syrian civil war, which is the reservoir from which much of the | :07:21. | :07:23. | |
extremism in the region is flowing, he would not be up to tell you. I | :07:24. | :07:28. | |
think after six months, that will be a problem. He has done something is, | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
though. He targeted, he launched the cruise missiles on the Syrian | :07:33. | :07:37. | |
government attack. His imposing sanctions on individuals of the | :07:38. | :07:40. | |
scientific support centre, which is involved in the production and | :07:41. | :07:49. | |
supplying arms to the ethnic Kurds. So easy is to be quite strong on | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
Syria. Is interesting the Kurdish point, because that too was a | :07:55. | :07:57. | |
decision that resident Obama left for him. There was a big that | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
President Obama were strongly considering doing, that he wanted to | :08:03. | :08:05. | |
let President Trump decide on. Donald Trump decided to arm the | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
Syrian Kurds. That is to fight Isis, a worthy an important cause, to rust | :08:10. | :08:15. | |
Isis from their capital, Raqqa, and to deny the property from which they | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
could lodge a tax on the waves. But that is not about underlined the | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
Syrian civil war, for which the administration still has no real | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
answer. But on the cruise missiles launched, following the chemical | :08:29. | :08:32. | |
attack, Michael Hayden, the former CIA director, Cena somebody quite | :08:33. | :08:36. | |
balance, he said that the response was general will -- genuine and add | :08:37. | :08:51. | |
rubble. He said he should have -- he said that President Obama should | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
have done that, after, for instance, the two attacks in 13 elected 2013. | :08:56. | :09:17. | |
-- in 2013. Obama didn't do nothing. And not forgetting the Syrian | :09:18. | :09:20. | |
civilians in the country. The fact is, at the end of the day, the | :09:21. | :09:27. | |
Syrian region broke that deal, Celts stock of chemical weapons, and the | :09:28. | :09:33. | |
writing to the United States to do, once they could, was too big a deal. | :09:34. | :09:40. | |
-- kept some stock. The drum makes these intemperate comments and act | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
in a rational way, but it actually seems that you are agreeing that he | :09:45. | :09:47. | |
does take advice from professionals, from people in the know? I think he | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
took advice on the narrow decision of the serious try, which has not | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
been followed by any serious Syria strategy. And when you look at other | :09:58. | :10:01. | |
decisions that he is taken, he is completely ignored the advice of | :10:02. | :10:03. | |
every professional around him. His decision to withdraw from the Paris | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
club agreement is just one important example of where his economic | :10:08. | :10:13. | |
advisers, is to make advisers, they all said that this was done. -- | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
climate. He went away and did it anyway, and I think he did this were | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
knee-jerk political reasons. As you know, action on climate change is at | :10:24. | :10:27. | |
both federal, state, and local level. And Michael Bloomberg, the | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
former mayor of New York, says we can do a lot of things that business | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
level, local level, state level, to meet our targets. The United States | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
is a big, diverse, resilient country. We will move forward in | :10:41. | :10:47. | |
this. I think it is folly to say that what comes out of Washington | :10:48. | :10:54. | |
doesn't matter at all. Of course it does. There would be a parent still | :10:55. | :10:57. | |
it wasn't for presidential leadership and it wasn't for | :10:58. | :11:00. | |
president Obama going out and getting the Chinese on-board and the | :11:01. | :11:03. | |
Indians on and rallying the Europeans. That is how we got here | :11:04. | :11:07. | |
in the first place. And there would be the next step up the double of | :11:08. | :11:14. | |
ambition without it. -- ladder of ambition. It really matters that | :11:15. | :11:23. | |
presidential leadership is lacking on this issue. Nikki Haley, that the | :11:24. | :11:28. | |
US Ambassador to the United Nations, suggested that Donald Trump would be | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
responsible on climate change. She said that just because the US got | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
out of a club, doesn't mean they were not there to be responsible. | :11:38. | :11:40. | |
Everything about them domestic policies are part has been a revival | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
of that statement. Not only did they would withdraw from Paris, but they | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
rescinded President Obama's actions which would clean up our energy | :11:50. | :11:52. | |
fleet and move towards more renewable energy, and improved full | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
efficiency standards in cars. Trump rode all about back. I'm waiting to | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
see what the meat is behind what Nikki Haley as saying. It has so | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
far, we have not seen. He has not withdrawn from the 1992 convention | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
framework of the change. So will have to see. But you said the | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
campaign trail that Donald Trump is temperamentally unfit and | :12:16. | :12:18. | |
unqualified to be the nation's commander in chief. But he has been | :12:19. | :12:26. | |
coveted by key military figures, such as the former Nato commander, | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
which the maker has said that he is able to take advice from the | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
first-class national security team is assembled. Article is hoped in | :12:35. | :12:39. | |
the early days that when he picked real luminaries, excellent | :12:40. | :12:42. | |
professionals, like General Motors, as his secretary of defence, and | :12:43. | :12:46. | |
General McMaster, as is natural security adviser. But this was | :12:47. | :12:53. | |
somehow help make better security decisions. -- National Security | :12:54. | :12:56. | |
Adviser. But you cannot advise the President who is fundamentally not | :12:57. | :12:59. | |
normal. I think he would object to that description, but anyway... He | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
might object to it, but you can see any way that he makes decisions, the | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
way that he lashes out, the whether the attacks and the way that he | :13:09. | :13:13. | |
tries to essentially belittle and divide, that this is not a normal | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
circumstance, and it is really incumbent on all of us to call it | :13:18. | :13:21. | |
out as such. The point on these national security advisers... As it | :13:22. | :13:28. | |
is said to have foreign policy, it is a continuation of Obama here or | :13:29. | :13:34. | |
there, actually, the actions don't quite match the intemperate | :13:35. | :13:42. | |
rhetoric. -- as you said just there. A dozen subways. If you take a look | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
back at Donald Trump is a broader font piracy, you can take it Paris | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
Agreement as one, you can take what he went and did in Europe, where he | :13:53. | :13:56. | |
stood before the 9/11 Memorial, which was the one-time in the | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
history of their lives, where article five, the defensive | :14:02. | :14:09. | |
mechanism of Nato was triggered on our behalf, and basically harass | :14:10. | :14:13. | |
them, and refuse to reaffirm America's commitment to make | :14:14. | :14:20. | |
commitment. -- America's commitment. What did he say? General Motors said | :14:21. | :14:28. | |
what they world if we withdraw within our borders, and the Americas | :14:29. | :14:36. | |
would do the right thing. I think we have two listen to what is... EZ one | :14:37. | :14:42. | |
thing, then he resented that. So you can't judge what happens in the | :14:43. | :14:47. | |
Trump administration by white Donald Trump himself, necessarily, says. | :14:48. | :14:51. | |
You need to look more in a holistic fashion. The president of the United | :14:52. | :14:55. | |
States, showing up in Europe, stepping into Nato headquarters in | :14:56. | :15:00. | |
Brussels, and conspicuously declining to a firm America's | :15:01. | :15:04. | |
Article five commitment, at least one person is watching closely. That | :15:05. | :15:09. | |
is V Putin. And those were several consequences. And nothing James | :15:10. | :15:13. | |
Mathison is by days later can iron ring that Bell. At this point, | :15:14. | :15:16. | |
Donald Trump is that a clear message to our allies and our adversarial is | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
that our commitment to our Nato allies is in doubt. That is | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
dangerous. Because if it could lead to more instability in Europe, and | :15:26. | :15:28. | |
if it could lead to possible conflict, there, it would ultimately | :15:29. | :15:32. | |
be the United States admitted that they would have becoming a sort that | :15:33. | :15:34. | |
out. You imply that he did not want to | :15:35. | :15:44. | |
upset the Russians. I did not talk about his motives although I do | :15:45. | :15:49. | |
think there are a number of questions about how he has followed | :15:50. | :15:54. | |
the wish list of Vladimir Putin. Regardless of his motive for doing | :15:55. | :15:58. | |
that in Brussels, Vladimir Putin was watching and that is what he will | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
have taken away. You mentioned the Russians and, of course, whether the | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
Russians were involved or not over the hacking, hacking bird Hillary | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
Clinton e-mail is, that was something that was a major issue at | :16:11. | :16:16. | |
the time. Another major issue of course was the use of Hillary | :16:17. | :16:20. | |
Clinton's Private e-mail account to conduct her State Department | :16:21. | :16:24. | |
You were advising her. You used her Private e-mail accounts to talk to | :16:25. | :16:34. | |
her about national security issue or State Department matters. Do you | :16:35. | :16:41. | |
think that was wise in retrospect? Hillary has said it was a mistake | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
for her to use a Private e-mail server and I think all of us | :16:46. | :16:48. | |
involved would have done it differently. At the time it did not | :16:49. | :16:54. | |
seem out of step with what most other cabinet secretaries, senators | :16:55. | :16:56. | |
and senior figures were doing. At the time it did not occur to us that | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
would be a challenge in the future. Now that we have looked at it in the | :17:02. | :17:05. | |
cold light of day, of course we wish we had done differently. Why did you | :17:06. | :17:09. | |
use a Private e-mail account to talk to her about State Department | :17:10. | :17:16. | |
matters? It was the e-mail she was using. She had taken it from being a | :17:17. | :17:19. | |
senator, transition did to Secretary of State. Previous Secretaries of | :17:20. | :17:25. | |
State had used Private e-mail account. John Kerry was the first to | :17:26. | :17:29. | |
Secretary of State to have an official e-mail account. This was | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
how it was done at the State Department at that point in time. | :17:34. | :17:37. | |
Once you get into the bright lights of a presidential campaign, things | :17:38. | :17:40. | |
look different. So it was convenience? She said that | :17:41. | :17:47. | |
repeatedly, for her to have one account and one device. Again, she | :17:48. | :17:53. | |
underscored repeatedly that it was a mistake and she wishes she had done | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
it differently. That being said, the amount of attention put on this | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
issue, of the type of e-mail account that she was using in comparison to | :18:02. | :18:06. | |
the policy issues and all of the other major questions before the | :18:07. | :18:09. | |
American people last year, was astonishing and completely reckless | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
on the part of the press. Do you think it cost her the presidency? | :18:15. | :18:18. | |
She seemed to think that the entire controversy and the FBI | :18:19. | :18:23. | |
investigation cost the presidency. It is always hard to identify any | :18:24. | :18:27. | |
variable in something as complex as this. I will say this. Nate Silver, | :18:28. | :18:35. | |
the premier statistician who looks at American presidential elections | :18:36. | :18:40. | |
ran an analysis after November eight and determined that Jim Comey's | :18:41. | :18:47. | |
rhetoric in late October... The FBI director who wrote a letter | :18:48. | :18:49. | |
reopening the investigation into Hillary Clinton was only ten days to | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
go in the election, he determined that letter had a material impact | :18:55. | :18:58. | |
that was the difference between winning and losing. | :18:59. | :19:05. | |
And James Comey of course then quite unceremoniously sacked | :19:06. | :19:07. | |
by Donald Trump as director of the FBI. | :19:08. | :19:10. | |
Right, he was sacked because, in the President's own words, | :19:11. | :19:12. | |
he thought that Jim Comey shouldn't be pursuing this Russia | :19:13. | :19:15. | |
He did that privately to the Russians in the Oval Office, | :19:16. | :19:23. | |
He did that privately to the Russians in the Oval Office, | :19:24. | :19:27. | |
and that was the meeting he had with Sergei Lavrov, | :19:28. | :19:29. | |
the Russian Foreign Minister, and also Sergey Kislyak, | :19:30. | :19:32. | |
the Russian ambassador to the United States. | :19:33. | :19:34. | |
Now, there's been a lot of made about what Donald Trump said | :19:35. | :19:37. | |
to them, or not, about US intelligence in the fight | :19:38. | :19:39. | |
And it seems as though it's the media who is taking the lead | :19:40. | :19:44. | |
on criticising Donald Trump on this, not the Democrats. | :19:45. | :19:46. | |
I think what the media is doing is digging to get to the bottom | :19:47. | :19:50. | |
It's not so much criticism as it is almost every day | :19:51. | :19:55. | |
they are coming out with some new information. | :19:56. | :19:57. | |
A new meeting between a Trump official and a Russian official that | :19:58. | :20:00. | |
Are they the official opposition now, not the Democrats any more? | :20:01. | :20:09. | |
They're the ones who are taking the lead, as I said, | :20:10. | :20:12. | |
in being the opposition to Donald Trump? | :20:13. | :20:14. | |
As you know better than anyone, as you know just from this very | :20:15. | :20:18. | |
interview, the media's job is to ask the hard questions. | :20:19. | :20:20. | |
Isn't it also the job of the Democrats, the official | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
In fact, if you look at some of these hearings where prominent | :20:25. | :20:32. | |
Trump administration officials have had to come forward and be held | :20:33. | :20:35. | |
accountable in the Congress, Democratic senators | :20:36. | :20:36. | |
and Democratic House members have been asking the tough questions | :20:37. | :20:39. | |
and have been putting the case to the American people that | :20:40. | :20:42. | |
on the issue of Russia, on the issue of the broader question | :20:43. | :20:45. | |
of corruption in this administration, with respect | :20:46. | :20:51. | |
to China, Russia and other countries, that there are real | :20:52. | :20:53. | |
questions we have to get to the bottom of. | :20:54. | :20:56. | |
So who is taking the lead for the Democrats? | :20:57. | :20:58. | |
On the Russia issue specifically, the two key people are Mark Warner, | :20:59. | :21:06. | |
You have the midterms coming up next year. | :21:07. | :21:17. | |
I think President Obama is going to have a very important | :21:18. | :21:20. | |
voice in this over the next two years. | :21:21. | :21:23. | |
Obviously, he's taken a step back because as the most recently | :21:24. | :21:25. | |
departed president, he wanted to give President Trump | :21:26. | :21:28. | |
an opportunity to hit the ground running. | :21:29. | :21:30. | |
Vice President Biden will be an important voice. | :21:31. | :21:32. | |
Secretary Clinton has started a PAC where she is helping to support | :21:33. | :21:35. | |
a lot of Democratic groups and Democratic leaning groups. | :21:36. | :21:37. | |
Can I just ask you, all three will be active players. | :21:38. | :21:43. | |
President Obama obviously couldn't run again for office. | :21:44. | :21:45. | |
Do you think Joe Biden might, or Hillary Clinton? | :21:46. | :21:47. | |
As for Vice President Biden, you would have to obviously ask him. | :21:48. | :21:52. | |
What I would say is that he has just set up a PAC to be able to support | :21:53. | :21:57. | |
I think he's going to be devoting all his energy in the next two | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
years, not to thinking about 2020, but to thinking about, | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
how do we take the house of Representatives back in 2018? | :22:07. | :22:09. | |
Do you think he might run for president, Joe Biden? | :22:10. | :22:14. | |
I have got completely out of the business of speculating | :22:15. | :22:16. | |
The Mayor of Chicago, the senior Democrat Rahm Emanuel, | :22:17. | :22:22. | |
when asked about this kind of thing on CNN said, | :22:23. | :22:25. | |
Hillary Clinton has got lots of energy. | :22:26. | :22:26. | |
But you're saying categorically she would not run in 2020? | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
It's not my place to say anything categorically. | :22:31. | :22:32. | |
Have you talked to her about it, for instance? | :22:33. | :22:35. | |
I haven't talked to her about 2020 because it's not even | :22:36. | :22:38. | |
What is in the realm of contemplation right now | :22:39. | :22:42. | |
is what she can do to help young people especially, | :22:43. | :22:44. | |
but progressive groups be able to really effectively operate | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
in opposition to Trump, and then to win seats that will help | :22:50. | :22:54. | |
us take back both the House of Representatives at the federal | :22:55. | :22:57. | |
level and state houses at the state level. | :22:58. | :22:59. | |
Michael Moore, the very well-known American director, | :23:00. | :23:03. | |
says one thing the Democrats don't understand is that Trump | :23:04. | :23:06. | |
He suggests Oprah Winfrey, chat show host. | :23:07. | :23:12. | |
Somebody that people love, is what he says. | :23:13. | :23:17. | |
Donald Trump was the outsider, the anti-politician, | :23:18. | :23:19. | |
I wouldn't rule out someone who doesn't have a career | :23:20. | :23:26. | |
in politics running for president and being really good. | :23:27. | :23:28. | |
You can also not have a career in politics, run for president | :23:29. | :23:31. | |
and be really bad, and I think we're seeing that play out | :23:32. | :23:35. | |
And there are some tremendous public servants who have served in politics | :23:36. | :23:39. | |
So I wouldn't rule out people who have served in public office, | :23:40. | :23:44. | |
and I wouldn't rule out people who haven't. | :23:45. | :23:48. | |
I think we should have a free for all, and then let Democratic | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
primary voters decide who the best standard bearer will be in 2020. | :23:53. | :23:55. | |
Jake Sullivan, thank you very much indeed for coming on HARDTalk. | :23:56. | :23:59. |