Sebastian Gorka, Deputy Assistant to President Trump HARDtalk


Sebastian Gorka, Deputy Assistant to President Trump

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Welcome to HARDtalk, I'm Stephen Sackur.

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Donald Trump promised to be a disruptive President.

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Right now the thing he's disrupting the most is his own

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He now has a new Chief of Staff and a new Director

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of Communications, but what he seems unable to shift is the sense

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of a Presidency in crisis, at odds with Republicans

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in Congress and still dogged by Dederal investigations

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of Russia's alleged meddling in 2016's election.

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My guess is Sebastien Glory, a deputy assistant to the president on

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national security. Where does the Trump presidency go from here? -- my

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guest. Sebastian Gorka in Washington,

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welcome to HARDtalk. Thank you, Stephen. I want to begin with

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something you just said five days ago, you said the atmosphere here in

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the White House is absolutely wonderful. We've got a new broom

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sweeping through the communications shop in Anthony Scaramucci and we

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are humming along on all cylinders. Plenty has happened since then.

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What's the atmosphere in the White House like today? Fabulous. I

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literally just left the Oval Office where we swore in general killer

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leak as the President's new Chief of Staff. It was like a family

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gathering, great, great mood, lots of press interest, so we are very

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excited about recent developments. Are you? Quite interesting, this is

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a heck of a family you're living in at the moment and Mr Scaramucci, who

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you so warmly welcomed last week, with his words to the New Yorker has

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surely throwing a bomb into the building behind you, the White

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House. Not at all. I know that's what our colleagues on the hill on

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the left and in the chattering classes of the leftist media would

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want people to believe, but it's not at all like that. We don't live in

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the rarefied bubble of boilerplate and assessing about things that

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aren't real, such as the Russia collusion delusion. We have a job to

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do. The president in the last six months has achieved things that most

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presidents to achieve in years, if you look at immigration, the

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economy. We broke an historic record for the stock exchange just in the

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last two days. So the fact is we are excited, the agenda, make America

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great again, is working. We've strengthened to the team. We have

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people who can communicate to the base that elected as president in

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the form of Anthony and we have a 4-star general who, in six months,

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turned the Department of Homeland Security around, made the illegal

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migration across the southern border drop not just by 10% or 50% by 73%.

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And we're just going to keep on going forward despite what our

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detractors wish to say. What Anthony Scaramucci said, and of course he

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pre-empted the departure of Reince Priebus, was the chief of staff at

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the time, since gone, was a bleeping paranoid schizophrenic, he said the

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chief strategist in the White House was pursuing his own brand and used

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a sexual euphemism that I can't repeat to suggest that he was

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somebody that Scaramucci did not rate in the slightest. He also

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suggested that other White House staffers in the communications shop

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as you call it would have to take lie detector tests because he was

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going to bleeping kill all the leakers. That suggests to me that

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this is the most deeply dysfunctional White House team I can

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possibly imagine. Then how do you explain the results, Stephen?

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Literally... We have had 24 weeks in a row. Market breaking records. We

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have seen illegal migration planet. We've seen a to revitalise. We've

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seen 800,000 jobs, almost 900,000 job... With respect, none of those

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pieces of data. How is that possible? And none of those pieces

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of data reflect my question at all. They have to be connected. My

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question is how do we regard the White House as anything other than

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deeply and profoundly dysfunctional today? Because it isn't. If you want

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to persist in harping on about fake news concepts of what's going on in

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the White House, I actually work in the side the White House and I can

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tell you there is no rises and we are creating the results expected of

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us and which got the president elected. You can live on that

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illusion if you want. Look at the track record. I'm going to look at

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the track record but I want to take seriously what your director of

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communications said. He said four example he would get lie detectors

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in to find out who was leaking from inside the White House. Have you

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faced yet the prospect of taking a lie detector test? I don't work for

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the comms shop, I work for the chief strategist, Stephen Bannon. I don't

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really wish to comment on what I think was meant to be a private

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conversation between Anthony and this reporter that the reporter

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clearly recorded. It's just sleazy journalism. It's just unseemly. We

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have a leak problem, if you look at the Congressional report from last

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week, we've had 125 leaks in 126 days. 62 of them have been deemed by

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Congress to be of national security import. That is a problem that will

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be dealt with, not primarily by Antony, his remit is the comms shop,

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but when you have a 4-star general like a general Kelly come in, the

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Chief of Staff is responsible for things like discipline, and these

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things have to end because it is bad for national security. With that in

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mind one more question about the teamwork and the way the logistics

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works inside the White House. Anthony Scaramucci made it very

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plain that he reports directly and personally to the president. He said

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that at a time when Reince Priebus was still Chief of Staff and it was

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clearly frankly some kind of comment on his relationship with Reince

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Priebus but to the best of your knowledge, is Scaramucci still going

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to have that direct personal route to the president or, as in most

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presidencies, is the new Chief of Staff going to be the gatekeeper who

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controls all access by others to the President? The Chief of Staff was

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literally sworn in about 52 minutes ago. So he is setting in place the

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procedures by which he will run the White House internally. Were Anthony

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fits into that, you would have to ask general Kelly or talk to Anthony

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but let's give more than 52 minutes and find out later in the week.

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Let's talk about the relationship between the White House and the US

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Congress, would you accept that on a series of different matters, from

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the failure of a key plank of Mr Trump's policy agenda, that is the

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repeal of affordable healthcare, so-called Obamacare, to the

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Congressional reaction to Mr Trump's comments about the Attorney General,

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the Republicans in the US Congress are deeply out of sympathy with and

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alienate from Donald Trump today? I look at it significantly

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differently. You call the president a destructor, in many cases he is,

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he's a positive disruptive force in Washington and that's why we call

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Washington the swamp. The thing that has to be remembered is that he may

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have formally been the GOP Republican candidate for president

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but Donald J Trump wasn't an establishment individual. Think

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about the fact, the first time since 1766, the first time in American

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history we have a President of the United States who has never served

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in public office before, not even as a governor, and who has never held

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senior military rank like Eisenhower or Washington. First time ever.

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Stephen, why do you think that is? Because the American people are fed

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up with the establishment writ large, including the GOP, left and

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right. Looking at the last 20 years they say you haven't served us well,

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whether it is wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, the state of the

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economy, the bloated government, the fact if you get a job in government

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it's a job for life. The president is not from the establishment. As a

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result members of the establishment GOP will probably have problems with

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him but if you're surprised then you haven't watched his campaign and you

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don't know who this man is. Interesting analysis but if I may

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suggest one of the reasons the GOP, the Republican Party, is so

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concerned about Donald Trump's first six months is that his approval

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rating is at historic lows. Politicians look at the polls and

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whatever you say about the markets, and indeed it's true, the market is

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high and unemployment is low, but the bottom line is even with the

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economy performing well, Donald Trump is historically one of the

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most unpopular presidents after six months in the entire history of the

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United States. Stephen, I don't like are these the same polls that said

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Brexit wouldn't happen and Hillary would become president, are they the

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same polling companies? I'm talking about the way the Republican Party

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is reacting to the popular disapproval of Donald Trump. What do

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you base that popular disapproval on? Polls that predicted there would

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be no Brexit and that Hillary Clinton would win, those polls?

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You'd better ask the Republican politicians because I'm going to

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quote to you the sort of politicians, like for example Jock

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Grassley, the chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee, who looked at

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the way Donald Trump has hung out his attorney general to dry, calling

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him very weak, saying he is disappointed in his beleaguered

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Attorney General and Chuck Grassley said this is wrong and if you even

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think about firing him, we in the Senate will thwart your attempts to

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appoint a six. That's what I think is the problem with the

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establishment on Hill. They don't understand. Last Tuesday I flew with

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the president to Youngstown, Ohio, where he had Aorangi and you should

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check out the footage of that rally, this is steel Valley, where the

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factories were closed down because of outsourcing and other issues in

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the last two decades. We are talking about a political type a rally,

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presidential type rally, eight months after an election. The

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atmosphere was electric. They barely allowed the president to talk

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because they were chanting so much for his agenda, make America great

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again. Doctor Gorka... I need to finish, Stephen, I'm going to

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finish. I need to make a point. I need to make a point. I didn't

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suggest Donald Trump didn't have passionate supporters, that's not

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what I was saying. I need to make the point the Paulding you have

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talking about has become like chronology, a fake science, the

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pollsters that Rodrigo Duterte a job and don't have the plus ten

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oversampling... Rasmus Elm, they just established a pole and just

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published one last week where they have 70%, 70% of the American

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populace are finally optimistic and happy in their general situation and

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their expectations. How is that possible, Stephen, if they are

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displeased with the President? How did we win a majority? You are

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shifting the ground because you dismissed polls and now you want to

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trade polling data. I could say ten polls if you want to do that that

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say he has historic low approval ratings. You can make your point

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about polls, I will make mine. The bottom line is this, if you take the

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reaction of the Republican Party both to his treatment of a

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Republican Attorney General that he appointed, Jeff Sessions, and if you

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also look at the failure of his signature policy platform pillar,

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that is to repeal Obamacare, you look at a president who after six

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months cannot get the support of his own party in the US Congress. Yeah,

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because the establishment doesn't understand what happened on November

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the eighth. Let's be clear here, you said Obamacare repeal and reform was

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a signature platform of his administration, not correct. It was

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important that the signature 3-part platform on which a billionaire real

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estate magnate from New York became the most powerful man in the world

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was to revitalise the economy, build the wall and defeat Isis. That speed

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3-part platform and we are going to make those things happen. With

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Obamacare, the president, in recognition, really you have to doff

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your hat to him, in recognition of the checks and balances and division

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of power in America said OK, GOP on the Hill, Congress, I'm going to let

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you lead the way on Obamacare reform. Why? Because they've been

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talking about it for seven years, Stephen. Not the president, Stephen,

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the president has been in office for seven months. These people have been

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saying for seven years we will repeal and we will reform and when

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he says gentlemen, lead the way, what happens? They failed. Not

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Donald Trump, the Republicans failed and now they're trying to make it

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look as though this is Donald Trump's fault, it isn't. You're

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making my point that there is now a profound rift between the president

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and the controlling party of both houses of the US government but

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let's move on from that and let's talk about the impact of the

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continuing extensive federal investigation into those allegations

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that Russia meddled in the US presidential election and further

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allegations that there may have been collusion with senior people in the

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Trump campaign. The investigation is digging ever deeper. How on earth...

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And finding nothing. How do you know? What do you mean how do I

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know? How do you know finding nothing, you privy to Robert

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Mueller's Special Counsel investigation? Ten months of

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hysteria and nobody, not one individual can point to one illegal

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act, not one. Isn't that strange? Robert Miller has not been working

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for more than a few months. How do you know that he is not finding

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incrementing evidence? -- Mueller. Orlando is the bubble has in excess.

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It is just absurd. -- all I know is the bubble has been obsessed. Have

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you ever heard of a story that has run for ten months, based on legal

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action, but has found none? I find it fascinating that just last week

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at Chuck Schumer from the Democrats have started to admit, you know

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what, in Hillary lost the election, and it was not about Russia, or a

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budgie is Comey. When the Democrat party is starting to do press

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conferences that say we need to look at the mirror, finally, because we

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haven't... -- James Kelly. As far as I understand it, this is not about

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who won the election, but about what the links work between Russian

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interference, which you know, the FBI and the intelligence agencies

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are 100% convinced happened, but the connections between that Russian

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interference and senior people in the current campaign. Now, we note

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because of revelations in the New York Times that would then backed up

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by e-mail evidence, we know that Donald Trump's son and Kushner had a

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meeting in June 2016, with a lawyer who had clear contact with the

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Russian government. -- Jared Kushner. And Donald Trump took that

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meeting knowing it was designed to give dirt on Hillary Clinton. That

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is a profound problem for your president. Now it is not. It is not.

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After the statement made by Jared Kushner last week of this superb

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statement he gave outside the West Wing after the testimony he gave

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behind close doors in congress, the thing is dead in the water. You need

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to read how the New York Times are now distancing themselves from the

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story, because they reel it is a massive nothing. You know who does

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not believe it? I do. Donald Trump himself tweeted that he was being

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investigated for firing the FBI Director why the man who told him to

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fired the direct. Donald Trump deals under investigation, so surely that

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is not nothing. You mentioned is meaty and Trump Tower long before

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the hysteria of Russia began. That was requested by a busy promoter. As

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a favour. There were misrepresented herself because she had some

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politically relevant information on Hillary Clinton. It turned out that

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she didn't. Then she switched the conversation immediately to adoption

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laws between the US and Russia. At that point, Donald Trump Jr entered

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the meeting, because it had been requested on false pretences, and

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nothing but a happen. At the same time, Hillary Clinton is embroiled

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with Russia after an act. Why? Because the DMZ, the Democrat

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National Congress, actually sent one of its consultants not to collect

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dirt on the trunk campaign, I will finish this, they said their own

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operative to the Embassy of a foreign nation, Ukraine, not just to

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collect dirt on the trunk campaign, but to co-ordinate an attack. That

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is a story. We will put in our next interview with a democratic

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representative, but you are here. But I say that when Robert Miller

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has expanded his investigation to investigate ties between Donald

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Trump and Russia, you have a profound problem that will not go

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away. -- Robert Mueller. You can call that a nothing burger as much

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as you like, but this is a burger with meat on it. It does not even

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have tofu, I'm afraid. It is an irrelevance. There is nothing there,

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and they spend their wheels as much as they like. How can you say there

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is nothing there when you have no idea what Robert Mueller is

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collecting? No idea at all. You can sell now television, but I actually

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work for the President of the United States, and when it does mean there

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is nothing there, I am going to trust my employer. -- insult me on

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television. You can insult me, but I will trust the President of the

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United States. And if you don't like that, you should look at the mirror

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and not insult your gas. No insult intended, just an observation. And

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don't call me names. You cannot tell me what Robert Mueller is

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discovering. I know what the President of the United States told

:19:58.:20:00.

me, and that is enough me, because I trust that man. I have no

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connections to Robert Mueller, and I trust the President of the United

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States. And for you to insult me is churlish and unprofessional. You

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made your absolute trust and Donald Trump very plain. Let's move on to

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national security, because that is what you are paid to do, advise on

:20:17.:20:20.

national security. North Korea. Donald Trump has issued many tweets

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telling North Korea it must desist from this missile test programme.

:20:27.:20:30.

The North Koreans are clearly not listening. Donald Trump now says it

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is China's fault because China is not using the influence it should.

:20:34.:20:39.

So what is the US do now? Well, the first thing we do is we don't give

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our playbook away. That is the Obama administration. They would tell you

:20:45.:20:47.

in advance what they were going to do, when they were going to Mosul or

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do XYZ. We don't tell regimes North Korea what we are going to do next.

:20:54.:20:57.

Because that is bad when you play poker, and potentially dangerous

:20:58.:21:01.

when you talk about geopolitics. What I can tell you is that since

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the Mar-a-Lago summit, when we had high hopes of Beijing exerting

:21:06.:21:10.

pressure on North Korea, we wanted to exert a programme of peaceful

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pressure with our partners, with the UN Security Council. It is now clear

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that that is not functional. It is not bringing the results. There is

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continued escalation by Pyongyang. And now we are looking for

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alternatives. But I am sorry I'm not there to tell you on BBC what we're

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going to do next. But Nikki Haley said the time for talk is over. So

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we have to assume that there are specific actions in the pipeline

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that we are going to see very quickly. You may assume that, yes.

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Let's talk about your special subject. You came into the White

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House of a long record of writing and working in think tanks. You had

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a clear positions and the United States is at war with radical Islam,

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and all other foreign policy issues need to be secondary to that. Am I

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right to assume that you were an advocate of ripping up the nuclear

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deal with Iran? I agreed with the analysis that I worked with General

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Flynn after the election, then they can to work for Mr Bannon. And I

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agree with our analysis from them. The deal is disastrous. It is not

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stop nuclear acquisition by Iran, but just a laser. And it is such a

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weak deal that it does not relate to lay them at all. -- it just delays

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them. -- it does not really delay them. And yet the Trump

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administration has said that Iran is respecting the deal, and if I may

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say so, looking at where we sit with the struggle against Isis, please

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End and push back in Mosul, and look like they will be pushed back in

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Raqqa, to. But you can say that the one country that is benefiting most

:22:59.:23:01.

from the situation in the Middle East at the moment is Iran. So your

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record as saying this threat exists, I'm struggling to see how the

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strategic position in the Middle East today is furthered by United

:23:11.:23:17.

States policy, helping national security. I never stated that Iran

:23:18.:23:21.

is the heart of the threat to the United States. In fact, I said we

:23:22.:23:26.

inherited a world on fire, thanks to the Obama administration's policy of

:23:27.:23:31.

leading from behind, whether it you look at Isis, China, Iran, or North

:23:32.:23:38.

Korea. We inherited a maelstrom. But when it comes to the jihadist threat

:23:39.:23:43.

to America, I concur with Netanyahu, when he addressed congress, saying

:23:44.:23:47.

all you need to know about the inferno in the Middle East and North

:23:48.:23:52.

Africa is that it is a Game of Thrones for the crown of the

:23:53.:23:54.

caliphate. We have two different versions of a caliphate. We have the

:23:55.:24:02.

70s, such as Al Qaeda and Isis, the extreme Sunnis, and we have the

:24:03.:24:12.

others. -- we have the Sunnis. I wish we had more time, Sebastian

:24:13.:24:20.

Gorka. But we don't. Thank you for being on HARDtalk. Thank

:24:21.:24:21.

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