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Now on BBC News, it's
time for HARDtalk. | 0:00:03 | 0:00:09 | |
Welcome to HARDtalk,
with me, Zeinab Badawi. | 0:00:09 | 0:00:11 | |
My guest has been celebrated here at
the World Economic Forum in Davos. | 0:00:11 | 0:00:16 | |
He's been given an award
for his philanthropic work | 0:00:16 | 0:00:19 | |
advancing women's rights. | 0:00:19 | 0:00:21 | |
He's Shah Rukh Khan,
the Bollywood superstar whose fan | 0:00:21 | 0:00:24 | |
base runs into the billions. | 0:00:24 | 0:00:27 | |
He says he wants to make
the world a better place, | 0:00:27 | 0:00:30 | |
but how far is he really
using his voice to do that? | 0:00:30 | 0:00:38 | |
Shah Rukh Khan, welcome to HARDtalk. | 0:00:50 | 0:00:53 | |
Thank you very much, Zeinab,
and thank you very much | 0:00:53 | 0:00:55 | |
for having me over at HARDtalk. | 0:00:55 | 0:00:57 | |
Very glad to have you. | 0:00:58 | 0:00:59 | |
Look, after graduating
from the University of Delhi, | 0:00:59 | 0:01:01 | |
you dropped out of a Masters
degree in communications | 0:01:01 | 0:01:03 | |
to become an actor. | 0:01:04 | 0:01:05 | |
I take it you have no regrets? | 0:01:05 | 0:01:07 | |
It was either being a journalist
or being an actor, so I, | 0:01:07 | 0:01:11 | |
I was actually training
to be a film-maker. | 0:01:11 | 0:01:13 | |
They didn't have a
film-making course there. | 0:01:13 | 0:01:15 | |
I'm really an actor by accident. | 0:01:15 | 0:01:21 | |
I'm really an actor by accident
because I went down and I said, | 0:01:21 | 0:01:25 | |
OK, I'll start working in front
of the camera because some people | 0:01:25 | 0:01:28 | |
offered me a film. | 0:01:28 | 0:01:29 | |
But behind the scenes I learned
how to make ad films, | 0:01:29 | 0:01:32 | |
I wanted to make advertising films. | 0:01:32 | 0:01:34 | |
And when my wife, now wife,
then just about to be wife, | 0:01:34 | 0:01:37 | |
and my friends asked me,
how long are you gone for? | 0:01:37 | 0:01:40 | |
I said a year. | 0:01:40 | 0:01:43 | |
That's it. | 0:01:43 | 0:01:44 | |
And it's been 30 years now. | 0:01:44 | 0:01:45 | |
The accidental actor. | 0:01:45 | 0:01:46 | |
I'm the accidental actor. | 0:01:46 | 0:01:47 | |
All right, well, your debut movie
was romantic drama Deewana | 0:01:47 | 0:01:50 | |
in the early 1990s. | 0:01:50 | 0:01:51 | |
And thereafter you very quickly
established yourself | 0:01:51 | 0:01:53 | |
as a very successful actor. | 0:01:53 | 0:01:54 | |
You've made around 80
Bollywood movies, I think. | 0:01:54 | 0:01:57 | |
About 65, 70, yeah. | 0:01:57 | 0:01:59 | |
Yeah, all right.
Which is your most favourite one? | 0:01:59 | 0:02:02 | |
The next one.
The next movie coming up. | 0:02:02 | 0:02:05 | |
That the favourite one.
Every time it's the next one. | 0:02:05 | 0:02:08 | |
Really? | 0:02:08 | 0:02:12 | |
When the one is finished,
then it's over and done with. | 0:02:12 | 0:02:15 | |
But I've done some really wonderful
films, some really nice people | 0:02:15 | 0:02:18 | |
I never expected to work with. | 0:02:18 | 0:02:20 | |
Mr Yash Chopra made a film
called Darr with me. | 0:02:20 | 0:02:23 | |
Where I was a bad guy. | 0:02:23 | 0:02:24 | |
It's like kind of like Cape Fear. | 0:02:24 | 0:02:26 | |
So I was... | 0:02:26 | 0:02:27 | |
When I started off working
I remember I remember this wonderful | 0:02:27 | 0:02:30 | |
director calling me and I said,
the reason you're interesting | 0:02:30 | 0:02:33 | |
to work with is because you're
very unattractive. | 0:02:33 | 0:02:35 | |
And we can put you in any role
and nobody will know. | 0:02:35 | 0:02:38 | |
So I started off like that. | 0:02:39 | 0:02:43 | |
So I did a lot of bad guy roles. | 0:02:43 | 0:02:45 | |
I really enjoyed them. | 0:02:45 | 0:02:46 | |
But you've really made your name
as a romantic lead, I think. | 0:02:46 | 0:02:49 | |
I don't know how, I'm shy
with women, and then every time | 0:02:49 | 0:02:53 | |
they keep giving me these roles
and make me sing and dance. | 0:02:53 | 0:02:56 | |
I'm, I'm really
awkward with romance. | 0:02:56 | 0:02:58 | |
But I guess acting is like that. | 0:02:58 | 0:02:59 | |
What you really bad
at is what you finally act out | 0:02:59 | 0:03:02 | |
better, you know, it's
that kind of line. | 0:03:02 | 0:03:05 | |
Your upcoming film this year
is going to be Zero, | 0:03:05 | 0:03:07 | |
which is about a man who has,
is of restricted height and falls | 0:03:07 | 0:03:11 | |
in love with a very
flamboyant woman. | 0:03:11 | 0:03:13 | |
Quite a departure for you. | 0:03:13 | 0:03:14 | |
I just want to say, you said
in 2015, we have to change | 0:03:14 | 0:03:18 | |
the format of our films. | 0:03:18 | 0:03:19 | |
I always say this, if I'm invited
to your party I need to dress up | 0:03:19 | 0:03:23 | |
in the code that you tell me to. | 0:03:23 | 0:03:25 | |
Do you think that Bollywood films
need to change in order to appeal | 0:03:25 | 0:03:29 | |
to an audience beyond their current? | 0:03:29 | 0:03:30 | |
They have two, they have two,
I stick by this even till about four | 0:03:30 | 0:03:34 | |
days ago I was having a bit
discussion with some friends. | 0:03:34 | 0:03:37 | |
And maybe I'm completely wrong,
but this is my belief, | 0:03:37 | 0:03:40 | |
that unless we change our screenplay
technique, unless we make our films | 0:03:40 | 0:03:43 | |
shorter, and perhaps, yeah,
you can have the musical part of it, | 0:03:43 | 0:03:46 | |
but they have to be
musical specific films. | 0:03:47 | 0:03:49 | |
Not every film can't
have song and dance. | 0:03:49 | 0:03:51 | |
Let's just change these two things. | 0:03:51 | 0:03:59 | |
Because they're about two and a half
hours long, and average... | 0:03:59 | 0:04:02 | |
They're longer, they have
an interval, they have | 0:04:02 | 0:04:04 | |
three acts, films. | 0:04:04 | 0:04:05 | |
It should be in two acts
without an interval. | 0:04:05 | 0:04:07 | |
Your opinion changes, doesn't it,
a bit, Shah Rukh Khan. | 0:04:07 | 0:04:10 | |
Because in 2006 after spending a few
months in LA, London and New York | 0:04:10 | 0:04:14 | |
you said, I found that our cinema
is a little exaggerated, | 0:04:14 | 0:04:17 | |
which, as you said now... | 0:04:17 | 0:04:18 | |
But you said to make
a mark in the West we have | 0:04:18 | 0:04:21 | |
to reach their level
without losing our identity, | 0:04:22 | 0:04:24 | |
culture or songs. | 0:04:24 | 0:04:24 | |
I don't want to star
in a Hollywood film, | 0:04:25 | 0:04:27 | |
but want to make a film that
crosses over universally. | 0:04:27 | 0:04:30 | |
It sounds like you're trying
to have the best of both worlds, | 0:04:30 | 0:04:33 | |
and you really do that? | 0:04:33 | 0:04:34 | |
Maintain your culture and identity? | 0:04:34 | 0:04:36 | |
This is personally me,
because I don't think I'd be able | 0:04:36 | 0:04:39 | |
to participate in a crossover film
where we need to change. | 0:04:39 | 0:04:42 | |
If you need to. | 0:04:42 | 0:04:43 | |
I meet my friends and they say,
look, we need to take the film | 0:04:43 | 0:04:47 | |
International. | 0:04:47 | 0:04:47 | |
If you take the film International
you have to make it for 90 | 0:04:47 | 0:04:50 | |
minutes without songs. | 0:04:50 | 0:04:51 | |
Would have to be more character
driven, would have to be extremely | 0:04:51 | 0:04:54 | |
screenplayed like, you know,
I've sat in London cinema theatres | 0:04:54 | 0:04:57 | |
with friends and English
people who are like... | 0:04:57 | 0:04:59 | |
You have an interval? | 0:04:59 | 0:05:00 | |
There's a second half,
there two halves to a film? | 0:05:00 | 0:05:03 | |
Which itself is, you know, if you're
looking for an international | 0:05:03 | 0:05:06 | |
audience, personally,
when people ask me what do I enjoy | 0:05:06 | 0:05:09 | |
doing most, I like
doing what I'm doing. | 0:05:09 | 0:05:11 | |
Singing and dancing. | 0:05:11 | 0:05:12 | |
Really? | 0:05:12 | 0:05:12 | |
But you say I don't want
to star in Hollywood film. | 0:05:12 | 0:05:15 | |
Really? | 0:05:15 | 0:05:15 | |
Also I wasn't offered to many,
so that was the best way to say it! | 0:05:15 | 0:05:19 | |
I don't want to star
in a Hollywood film. | 0:05:20 | 0:05:22 | |
You're repeatedly the second best
paid actor in the whole | 0:05:22 | 0:05:25 | |
world whatever nationality. | 0:05:25 | 0:05:25 | |
I wish! | 0:05:25 | 0:05:26 | |
Well, your way up there anyway. | 0:05:26 | 0:05:28 | |
You're not complaining are you? | 0:05:28 | 0:05:29 | |
I need to tell you a story,
then we'll go on with this. | 0:05:29 | 0:05:32 | |
I was driving down to my office,
I was making a film, | 0:05:33 | 0:05:36 | |
which was called Happy New Year. | 0:05:36 | 0:05:37 | |
Very expensive film. | 0:05:37 | 0:05:38 | |
We had to create this
whole visual effect, | 0:05:38 | 0:05:40 | |
of this world dance
championship in Dubai. | 0:05:41 | 0:05:42 | |
So I was driving down
and my producer called me | 0:05:42 | 0:05:45 | |
and he said, we have no money. | 0:05:45 | 0:05:47 | |
And I said, yeah, so what do I do? | 0:05:47 | 0:05:49 | |
Can I make some visits to someplace
and do some openings so I can | 0:05:49 | 0:05:53 | |
get some money? | 0:05:53 | 0:05:54 | |
And he said, yeah, we really need
to, because we don't have money, | 0:05:54 | 0:05:58 | |
otherwise we'll have to borrow. | 0:05:58 | 0:05:59 | |
And I reached my office and I put
on my phone and while I was trying | 0:05:59 | 0:06:03 | |
to find out ways to earn
money to finish my film, | 0:06:03 | 0:06:06 | |
this came out, that I'm the second
richest actor in the world. | 0:06:06 | 0:06:09 | |
Was it news to you? | 0:06:10 | 0:06:11 | |
It was news to me,
and I stick by it. | 0:06:11 | 0:06:14 | |
Please continue saying
it, it feels good. | 0:06:14 | 0:06:15 | |
But you're not complaining are you? | 0:06:15 | 0:06:17 | |
I'm not complaining at all. | 0:06:17 | 0:06:18 | |
You've made a lot of money. | 0:06:18 | 0:06:20 | |
I've made a lot of money. | 0:06:20 | 0:06:22 | |
From many films. | 0:06:22 | 0:06:23 | |
From many films. | 0:06:23 | 0:06:23 | |
I always wanted to be rich,
I always wanted to be famous. | 0:06:23 | 0:06:28 | |
I come from a very, very,
very poor background. | 0:06:28 | 0:06:29 | |
Given a chance, I'll
do it all over again. | 0:06:29 | 0:06:32 | |
I'm just so happy being
a star and so rich. | 0:06:32 | 0:06:34 | |
But you have said that with that
fame and wealth comes | 0:06:34 | 0:06:37 | |
responsibilities. | 0:06:37 | 0:06:37 | |
And you are here at Davos
at the World Economic Forum | 0:06:38 | 0:06:40 | |
where you've been celebrated
for your work and philanthropy, | 0:06:41 | 0:06:43 | |
you received the Crystal award. | 0:06:43 | 0:06:44 | |
And you say you are committed
to improving the state of the world | 0:06:44 | 0:06:48 | |
and, in particular, the rights
of women in your native India. | 0:06:48 | 0:06:51 | |
But are you using your voice loudly
enough, Shah Rukh Khan? | 0:06:51 | 0:06:54 | |
No, I don't think so. | 0:06:54 | 0:06:55 | |
You know, I have been,
as I should be, extremely | 0:06:55 | 0:06:58 | |
self-centred for a lot many years
because I needed to do what I do. | 0:06:58 | 0:07:02 | |
Like a regular guy,
I want to make a lot of money, | 0:07:02 | 0:07:05 | |
I want to be famous,
I want to do my job. | 0:07:05 | 0:07:08 | |
I'm sensitive because I'm an actor,
or the other way round. | 0:07:08 | 0:07:11 | |
There always has been two thoughts
about turning around and doing | 0:07:11 | 0:07:14 | |
something for the community for,
you know, service to others. | 0:07:14 | 0:07:17 | |
And I don't think I've done enough. | 0:07:17 | 0:07:19 | |
Every time I've been asked upon,
to do something, lend my voice | 0:07:19 | 0:07:22 | |
to a project, I go ahead and do it. | 0:07:22 | 0:07:24 | |
But personally I always felt
I should get into something that | 0:07:24 | 0:07:27 | |
I really feel for, and I want to do
it without talking about it. | 0:07:27 | 0:07:31 | |
Being here at Davos is also awkward
for me, when I'm talking | 0:07:31 | 0:07:34 | |
about the foundation that I set
up three years back. | 0:07:34 | 0:07:37 | |
But then... | 0:07:37 | 0:07:38 | |
That's the Meer Foundation,
named after your father. | 0:07:38 | 0:07:40 | |
I think over the years
I came to a conclusion, | 0:07:40 | 0:07:42 | |
which was only four or five
years back, to be honest, | 0:07:43 | 0:07:45 | |
and like you said, I haven't
used my voice enough, | 0:07:46 | 0:07:48 | |
not at all. | 0:07:48 | 0:07:49 | |
But now you've said at Davos,
to disfigure a woman by throwing | 0:07:49 | 0:07:52 | |
acid on her face is to me,
one of the basest, crudest acts | 0:07:52 | 0:07:56 | |
of subjugation imaginable. | 0:07:56 | 0:07:57 | |
At the source of it lies the view
that a woman does not have the right | 0:07:57 | 0:08:01 | |
to assert her choice. | 0:08:01 | 0:08:02 | |
Why did you choose this cause,
acid attack survivors? | 0:08:02 | 0:08:05 | |
A couple of things happened. | 0:08:05 | 0:08:06 | |
You know, I'm surrounded
by beautiful women. | 0:08:06 | 0:08:08 | |
Like you said, I'm a romantic hero
and I'm working with the most | 0:08:08 | 0:08:11 | |
beautiful women in the world. | 0:08:11 | 0:08:13 | |
My life is surrounded by women. | 0:08:13 | 0:08:14 | |
Then I came across a couple of them,
who were victims, who have been | 0:08:14 | 0:08:18 | |
oppressed, who have been
subjugated like this, | 0:08:18 | 0:08:20 | |
and is very hurtful. | 0:08:20 | 0:08:21 | |
I was scared to see them initially. | 0:08:21 | 0:08:23 | |
You know, personally. | 0:08:23 | 0:08:24 | |
Because they've been disfigured. | 0:08:24 | 0:08:25 | |
And what I found was that
I should go there and, | 0:08:25 | 0:08:28 | |
you know, perhaps be charitable. | 0:08:28 | 0:08:29 | |
I realised they don't that,
they need solidarity. | 0:08:29 | 0:08:31 | |
I thought you know, I can be this
narcissistically compassionate | 0:08:32 | 0:08:34 | |
person and turn around and say,
look, I'll look after you, | 0:08:34 | 0:08:37 | |
and I realised they don't need that. | 0:08:37 | 0:08:40 | |
Is this part of a much
wider problem? | 0:08:40 | 0:08:42 | |
We know that women in India suffer
all sorts of discrimination. | 0:08:42 | 0:08:45 | |
Only 12% of members of Parliament
in India are female, | 0:08:45 | 0:08:48 | |
only 5% of women said
they have the right to choose | 0:08:48 | 0:08:51 | |
who they want to marry. | 0:08:51 | 0:08:52 | |
I can go on and on with
those statistics. | 0:08:52 | 0:08:55 | |
80% need permission to go
and access health care. | 0:08:55 | 0:08:57 | |
Why do you think that's the state
of affairs for women in India? | 0:08:57 | 0:09:01 | |
What are these barriers? | 0:09:01 | 0:09:07 | |
Except for the way, perhaps,
women can come out now and talk | 0:09:07 | 0:09:10 | |
in the West, I think the state
of women has been this | 0:09:10 | 0:09:13 | |
categorisation of women,
by men of society. | 0:09:14 | 0:09:15 | |
And defining it so strongly. | 0:09:15 | 0:09:17 | |
I think it's what the fight
for women, of women, | 0:09:17 | 0:09:19 | |
against is all over. | 0:09:20 | 0:09:21 | |
It is in India also and it is,
I'm sure, in Japan also, | 0:09:21 | 0:09:24 | |
and in England also, America also. | 0:09:24 | 0:09:26 | |
And that is why somebody who's
only working with women, | 0:09:26 | 0:09:28 | |
I was like, I have to do something,
one which I feel for. | 0:09:29 | 0:09:32 | |
And try to again, uplift
through my work and all I can. | 0:09:32 | 0:09:35 | |
Just stand with them. | 0:09:35 | 0:09:43 | |
Listen, you work in an industry
which, to put it bluntly, | 0:09:43 | 0:09:46 | |
Bollywood, is sexist. | 0:09:46 | 0:09:47 | |
Men get paid more than the women. | 0:09:47 | 0:09:50 | |
We've heard about the #MeToo
campaign in Hollywood. | 0:09:50 | 0:09:52 | |
That kind of thing must go on. | 0:09:52 | 0:09:54 | |
We know it does because some actors
have actually talked about that. | 0:09:54 | 0:09:57 | |
Kangana Ranaut is one of the few
Bollywood actresses whose publicly | 0:09:57 | 0:10:00 | |
spoken about the sexual
assault and harassment. | 0:10:00 | 0:10:02 | |
She told Reuters, I faced severe
sexual exploitation and harassment | 0:10:02 | 0:10:05 | |
at the workplace. | 0:10:05 | 0:10:07 | |
Have you witnessed this kind
of thing, have you done | 0:10:07 | 0:10:10 | |
anything about it? | 0:10:10 | 0:10:19 | |
You know, I mean, personally
at a level where I'm making films | 0:10:20 | 0:10:23 | |
or working in films,
we are very clear about the attitude | 0:10:23 | 0:10:26 | |
to women, even the smallest aspects
of the names coming in the title | 0:10:26 | 0:10:29 | |
first, which is not
going to do anything, | 0:10:29 | 0:10:31 | |
but the kind of respectability. | 0:10:31 | 0:10:39 | |
That's the thing you
started a few years ago. | 0:10:39 | 0:10:41 | |
So that your female co-star,
her name appears before yours. | 0:10:41 | 0:10:44 | |
That's just an empty
gesture isn't it? | 0:10:44 | 0:10:46 | |
It is. | 0:10:46 | 0:10:55 | |
You don't have to push me too
far to agree to this. | 0:10:55 | 0:10:58 | |
It's a way of trying to say,
even this, small thing, | 0:10:58 | 0:11:01 | |
needs to be done, just
to bring about equality, | 0:11:01 | 0:11:04 | |
see what we've reduced ourselves to. | 0:11:04 | 0:11:05 | |
To put a girl's name
in front to show, look, | 0:11:05 | 0:11:08 | |
guys, we are thinking
of them as equals. | 0:11:08 | 0:11:10 | |
And that is sad. | 0:11:10 | 0:11:11 | |
And that is strangely
dichotomous when you're | 0:11:11 | 0:11:13 | |
talking about creativity. | 0:11:13 | 0:11:14 | |
The boys and girls working together. | 0:11:14 | 0:11:16 | |
I've never personally... | 0:11:16 | 0:11:16 | |
Nobody dare miss behave
with a woman on my set. | 0:11:17 | 0:11:19 | |
I'm very clear on that. | 0:11:19 | 0:11:21 | |
And your fellow actors haven't
in the past said to you, | 0:11:21 | 0:11:24 | |
you know what, Shah Rukh this
and that happen to me? | 0:11:24 | 0:11:27 | |
Or... | 0:11:27 | 0:11:29 | |
It hasn't come... | 0:11:29 | 0:11:30 | |
I've been close to the women I've
worked with, nobody has said this. | 0:11:30 | 0:11:33 | |
I never personally been told. | 0:11:33 | 0:11:35 | |
On my set. | 0:11:35 | 0:11:36 | |
You know, Zeinab, maybe it also
stems from the fact, | 0:11:36 | 0:11:38 | |
I've just been... | 0:11:38 | 0:11:39 | |
My mother, my sister,
my wife, my daughter, | 0:11:39 | 0:11:41 | |
I've just been with women,
so I've been brought up by women. | 0:11:41 | 0:11:45 | |
You say that, but yet,
you know, you have starred, | 0:11:45 | 0:11:47 | |
as I said, as the romantic lead
in so many Bollywood films. | 0:11:47 | 0:11:51 | |
To put it frankly, you know,
the women's characters | 0:11:51 | 0:11:53 | |
revolve around yours. | 0:11:53 | 0:11:54 | |
There are many scenes
where there are scantily clad women | 0:11:54 | 0:11:57 | |
without any real link to the plot. | 0:11:57 | 0:11:58 | |
They don't have to be
dressed like that. | 0:11:59 | 0:12:01 | |
Are you comfortable starring,
having starred in such films, | 0:12:01 | 0:12:03 | |
yet here you are advocating
women's rights? | 0:12:03 | 0:12:10 | |
I'm most comfortable having
starred in those films. | 0:12:10 | 0:12:12 | |
And none of them, I mean,
I'm trying to quickly see | 0:12:13 | 0:12:15 | |
if there was a scantily
clad woman in my film. | 0:12:16 | 0:12:24 | |
I've spoken to Indian people
here at the World Economic Forum | 0:12:24 | 0:12:27 | |
and they say these other films that
Shah Rukh Khan has acted in. | 0:12:27 | 0:12:30 | |
Everything revolves
around him and... | 0:12:30 | 0:12:31 | |
The women gain salvation if she,
you know, ends up marrying you. | 0:12:32 | 0:12:35 | |
No, Zeinab, you asked
the wrong people. | 0:12:36 | 0:12:37 | |
My films, everything
revolves around the woman. | 0:12:37 | 0:12:39 | |
I revolve around the woman. | 0:12:39 | 0:12:41 | |
In every film. | 0:12:41 | 0:12:47 | |
I run after her, I please... | 0:12:47 | 0:12:49 | |
Let me hit you with
this bit of research. | 0:12:49 | 0:12:51 | |
From 2012 from the University
of Louisville in the US, | 0:12:51 | 0:12:54 | |
which found commercial Hindi films
portray ideal women as submissive, | 0:12:54 | 0:12:57 | |
self-sacrificing, chased
and controlled, while the bad women | 0:12:57 | 0:12:59 | |
as individualistic,
sexually aggressive, | 0:12:59 | 0:13:00 | |
westernised and not sacrificing. | 0:13:00 | 0:13:01 | |
It's got a lot of data that kind... | 0:13:01 | 0:13:03 | |
I don't do typical Hindi films. | 0:13:03 | 0:13:10 | |
Still, you might be tarred
with the same brush even if you say, | 0:13:10 | 0:13:14 | |
well, I don't do that kind of film. | 0:13:14 | 0:13:20 | |
100% there is a portrayal of women
which needs to change in every | 0:13:21 | 0:13:24 | |
aspect, not only Indian films. | 0:13:24 | 0:13:25 | |
One tries to as much as one
can through 1's work. | 0:13:25 | 0:13:28 | |
But yes, it exists, I mean,
there is no denying it. | 0:13:28 | 0:13:31 | |
Yes, this categorisation
of humanity and women, | 0:13:31 | 0:13:33 | |
you know, submissive,
always trying to define them | 0:13:33 | 0:13:35 | |
in society really so
they are subservient | 0:13:35 | 0:13:37 | |
to men, continues. | 0:13:37 | 0:13:46 | |
And it does. | 0:13:46 | 0:13:50 | |
But those are not the
cinemas you look at. | 0:13:50 | 0:13:52 | |
You can look at the sign and say,
this is such a depressive, | 0:13:53 | 0:13:56 | |
oppressive way of portraying women,
or you can look at the other side. | 0:13:56 | 0:14:00 | |
We make 1000 films, and you know,
even if you're making 500 awful | 0:14:00 | 0:14:03 | |
ones and 500... | 0:14:03 | 0:14:04 | |
50 good ones... | 0:14:04 | 0:14:05 | |
Where this has been tried to change,
it's not just that the cinema | 0:14:05 | 0:14:09 | |
is promoting it. | 0:14:09 | 0:14:10 | |
Society believes in this. | 0:14:10 | 0:14:11 | |
And it's being portrayed in cinema. | 0:14:11 | 0:14:12 | |
And it is changing. | 0:14:12 | 0:14:16 | |
That is the question. | 0:14:16 | 0:14:17 | |
It's a very interesting
thing you raise. | 0:14:17 | 0:14:19 | |
Should Bollywood films,
your films in particular, | 0:14:19 | 0:14:21 | |
mirror society and reflect
what their opinions are, | 0:14:21 | 0:14:23 | |
or should we try to lead
and reform opinion on harmful, | 0:14:23 | 0:14:26 | |
negative stereotypes? | 0:14:26 | 0:14:35 | |
I think it should do both. | 0:14:35 | 0:14:36 | |
Cinema should do both. | 0:14:36 | 0:14:37 | |
It should not does become one that
I'm going to change the society. | 0:14:38 | 0:14:41 | |
Some cinema should do that and some
cinema should reflect society | 0:14:41 | 0:14:44 | |
and take on things from real life,
so that you can identify with them. | 0:14:44 | 0:14:48 | |
I just read somewhere
a couple of days ago, | 0:14:48 | 0:14:52 | |
every artform is a lie but it is
going towards proving some truth. | 0:14:52 | 0:14:55 | |
So one lie would be mirroring
society, the other one would be | 0:14:55 | 0:14:58 | |
where you are trying
to tell them to change it. | 0:14:58 | 0:15:01 | |
So both kinds should happen. | 0:15:01 | 0:15:03 | |
But the most commercially successful
ones are going to be the ones that | 0:15:03 | 0:15:06 | |
don't upset the apple cart too much. | 0:15:06 | 0:15:08 | |
You have said we need to realise
this is a business at the end | 0:15:08 | 0:15:12 | |
of the day. | 0:15:12 | 0:15:18 | |
However much you may think
it's a creative field. | 0:15:18 | 0:15:20 | |
So there's no point making a film
that's too challenging and that it | 0:15:20 | 0:15:24 | |
just bombs, it doesn't do well. | 0:15:24 | 0:15:26 | |
Yeah. | 0:15:26 | 0:15:26 | |
It would... | 0:15:26 | 0:15:28 | |
Depending on how much
of a challenge you take, the | 0:15:28 | 0:15:30 | |
last five films of mine have bombed. | 0:15:30 | 0:15:32 | |
Have they? | 0:15:32 | 0:15:33 | |
Which will not make me turn around
and do the typical film | 0:15:33 | 0:15:36 | |
still. | 0:15:36 | 0:15:36 | |
All right. | 0:15:36 | 0:15:37 | |
You said last November
that you believe in | 0:15:37 | 0:15:39 | |
storytelling. | 0:15:39 | 0:15:39 | |
He said, I believe no matter
what your language, no matter | 0:15:39 | 0:15:42 | |
what country you're story comes
from, no matter what your ideology | 0:15:42 | 0:15:45 | |
is, storytelling and listening
should be a familiar experience | 0:15:45 | 0:15:48 | |
which binds us all together, makes
relationships stronger, even in the | 0:15:48 | 0:15:51 | |
face of dissent and discussion. | 0:15:51 | 0:15:52 | |
Could that refer to some
of the intercommunal tensions | 0:15:52 | 0:15:54 | |
and divisions that we see
in modern day India? | 0:15:55 | 0:16:03 | |
You see, I think that is essential. | 0:16:03 | 0:16:05 | |
There will be dissent
for everything. | 0:16:05 | 0:16:07 | |
You would also believe,
like we all believe, there has to be | 0:16:07 | 0:16:10 | |
a discussion on it. | 0:16:10 | 0:16:16 | |
There can't be a radical,
you know, stand-off when | 0:16:16 | 0:16:18 | |
there is dissent. | 0:16:18 | 0:16:19 | |
I think if you can have
a discussion and you talk | 0:16:19 | 0:16:22 | |
about, in our country
we are the biggest democracy. | 0:16:22 | 0:16:24 | |
And if you're the biggest
democracy, dissent is part | 0:16:24 | 0:16:27 | |
and parcel of that. | 0:16:27 | 0:16:30 | |
And, as much, is discussion. | 0:16:30 | 0:16:33 | |
So when you have a story and,
when you go out, sometimes | 0:16:33 | 0:16:35 | |
there is dissent. | 0:16:35 | 0:16:36 | |
As a film-maker, as a citizen
of a country, as a | 0:16:36 | 0:16:39 | |
citizen of the world,
can we just have a bit of discussion | 0:16:39 | 0:16:42 | |
about it and sort it out instead
of taking, | 0:16:42 | 0:16:45 | |
you know, stand-off positions? | 0:16:45 | 0:16:46 | |
So it is possible. | 0:16:46 | 0:16:49 | |
Are you worried about stand-off
positions, as you put it? | 0:16:49 | 0:16:52 | |
Because there is a current
of opinion, I've heard it expressed | 0:16:52 | 0:16:55 | |
here at Davos from Indian delegates
I've talked to about, you know, | 0:16:55 | 0:16:59 | |
there is a certain tension. | 0:16:59 | 0:17:06 | |
Some people feel that
there is a kind of | 0:17:06 | 0:17:08 | |
Hindu nationalism that really is not
fostering good intercommunal ties. | 0:17:09 | 0:17:13 | |
No, I don't think so. | 0:17:13 | 0:17:16 | |
I was just telling people
outside, because of | 0:17:16 | 0:17:18 | |
social media, you know, whenever
a certain thing you know, small | 0:17:18 | 0:17:21 | |
factions or fractions of things
happen, they seem a little bigger. | 0:17:21 | 0:17:24 | |
But the beauty of all of this is
within all this trolling and anger | 0:17:24 | 0:17:29 | |
and people expressing themselves,
they are all also connecting. | 0:17:29 | 0:17:34 | |
So I feel this is,
we're on the cusp of | 0:17:34 | 0:17:37 | |
something amazingly
inclusive and integrating | 0:17:37 | 0:17:38 | |
in this kind of dissent. | 0:17:39 | 0:17:41 | |
I just see it on social media,
I haven't seen it live anywhere. | 0:17:41 | 0:17:45 | |
I would be wrong
to comment on it that | 0:17:45 | 0:17:47 | |
way. | 0:17:47 | 0:17:54 | |
If you have this kind of dissent,
if people claim it, just a | 0:17:54 | 0:17:58 | |
bit of discussion, finally,
if it's not going to be inclusive, | 0:17:58 | 0:18:01 | |
everybody will suffer. | 0:18:01 | 0:18:01 | |
I think we are not in that stage
at all in our country. | 0:18:01 | 0:18:06 | |
You've tended to act
most in your films | 0:18:06 | 0:18:08 | |
as a non-Muslim Indian
but in | 0:18:08 | 0:18:11 | |
the last, in recent years,
your last few films, | 0:18:11 | 0:18:14 | |
My Name is Khan, for instance,
in 2010, you're an Indian | 0:18:14 | 0:18:17 | |
Muslim man with Asperger's syndrome,
takes a challenge to speak to the US | 0:18:17 | 0:18:21 | |
president seriously and embarks
on a cross-country journey. | 0:18:21 | 0:18:23 | |
Is your Muslim identity becoming
more relevant to you now? | 0:18:23 | 0:18:28 | |
No, no, no, I've never felt that. | 0:18:28 | 0:18:35 | |
I think being an artist,
I think, these things | 0:18:35 | 0:18:37 | |
should be the last
on | 0:18:37 | 0:18:39 | |
your mind. | 0:18:39 | 0:18:39 | |
The only film which required me
to play Muslim was My | 0:18:39 | 0:18:45 | |
Name is Khan, because it
was a film like that, | 0:18:45 | 0:18:47 | |
it was talking about
the | 0:18:47 | 0:18:49 | |
relationship of Islam
with the Western world. | 0:18:49 | 0:18:51 | |
The others are by chance. | 0:18:51 | 0:18:52 | |
I read this article,
some lady wrote it. | 0:18:52 | 0:18:54 | |
I was really taken aback,
I hadn't even realised it | 0:18:54 | 0:18:57 | |
myself. | 0:18:57 | 0:19:00 | |
Dear Zindagi, and Raees,
which is the third one | 0:19:00 | 0:19:02 | |
and I'm Muslim in it. | 0:19:02 | 0:19:04 | |
Suddenly, she's like, is Shah Rukh's
now trying to put his identity | 0:19:04 | 0:19:07 | |
forward. | 0:19:07 | 0:19:07 | |
No, not at all, there
was nothing of that sort. | 0:19:07 | 0:19:10 | |
I didn't realise it. | 0:19:10 | 0:19:11 | |
But there is controversy
attached, because you | 0:19:11 | 0:19:13 | |
just mentioned Raees
in | 0:19:13 | 0:19:14 | |
2017, your co-star, Meera Khan,
a Pakistani actor, hasn't it even | 0:19:14 | 0:19:18 | |
been allowed to come to India
to promote | 0:19:18 | 0:19:20 | |
the film with you because there
was this tension between India and | 0:19:20 | 0:19:24 | |
Pakistan. | 0:19:24 | 0:19:29 | |
You see, whenever there is tension
between India and Pakistan, | 0:19:29 | 0:19:31 | |
whenever there is tension,
cricketers don't come to play any | 0:19:32 | 0:19:34 | |
more. | 0:19:34 | 0:19:35 | |
So whenever there's tension,
I think there was at that point in | 0:19:35 | 0:19:38 | |
time. | 0:19:38 | 0:19:38 | |
As an artist, as an artist it's
really sad because, you know, I | 0:19:38 | 0:19:42 | |
think what everyone talks
about should cross boundaries. | 0:19:42 | 0:19:44 | |
And we should be
inclusive and it's about | 0:19:44 | 0:19:46 | |
love and sharing. | 0:19:46 | 0:19:47 | |
But you know, when emotions
run high, sometimes you | 0:19:47 | 0:19:49 | |
don't do things that
you would like to because, | 0:19:49 | 0:19:52 | |
I think it's just safer and nicer
and say, listen, we're | 0:19:52 | 0:19:55 | |
artists, we don't want to get
into part of dissent. | 0:19:55 | 0:19:57 | |
But you get caught up in it
and that was all, that's | 0:19:57 | 0:20:01 | |
the point. | 0:20:01 | 0:20:01 | |
She still can't go
and promote the film. | 0:20:01 | 0:20:13 | |
The easiest part of it is to
just step back, you're | 0:20:13 | 0:20:16 | |
an artist, just release your film,
let people see, and realise there's | 0:20:16 | 0:20:20 | |
nothing wrong. | 0:20:20 | 0:20:20 | |
In the long run I think
this will get sorted. | 0:20:20 | 0:20:23 | |
Do you? | 0:20:23 | 0:20:23 | |
Yeah. | 0:20:23 | 0:20:24 | |
Now you've got a problem with
Padmavat, which is a film, and it's | 0:20:24 | 0:20:27 | |
about a 14th century
Hindu Queen and a Muslim ruler. | 0:20:27 | 0:20:30 | |
Fictitious film. | 0:20:30 | 0:20:30 | |
But it's caused all
sorts of fuss, you | 0:20:31 | 0:20:33 | |
know. | 0:20:33 | 0:20:33 | |
Went to the Supreme Court in India
because people didn't want it | 0:20:33 | 0:20:36 | |
shown and the Supreme Court says,
no, it can be shown, freedom of | 0:20:36 | 0:20:40 | |
speech and so on. | 0:20:40 | 0:20:44 | |
Some cinemas said but
we're not going to show | 0:20:44 | 0:20:46 | |
this film because we're
worried about violence. | 0:20:46 | 0:20:48 | |
I mean surely you as,
even though you say it's not | 0:20:48 | 0:20:51 | |
relevant to your identity, the fact
you're not only an Indian actor, | 0:20:51 | 0:20:54 | |
icon, you're also
a Muslim Indian icon, | 0:20:54 | 0:20:56 | |
you should be commenting
on | 0:20:56 | 0:20:57 | |
this kind of issue. | 0:20:58 | 0:20:59 | |
I take comment
on the art part of it. | 0:20:59 | 0:21:01 | |
And if I put any identity
of me forward, even | 0:21:01 | 0:21:04 | |
Indian Muslim identity, it's wrong. | 0:21:04 | 0:21:05 | |
Because as an artist
I should talk as an artist | 0:21:05 | 0:21:08 | |
and, as an artist,
I | 0:21:08 | 0:21:09 | |
think whenever a film comes out,
like we just talked about, if there | 0:21:09 | 0:21:13 | |
is dissent, hopefully
with discussion it will end. | 0:21:13 | 0:21:15 | |
So I hope it ends
with Padmavat also. | 0:21:15 | 0:21:17 | |
I think there have been
a lot of discussions | 0:21:17 | 0:21:20 | |
on it. | 0:21:20 | 0:21:20 | |
The other thing I don't want to do
through your show is give any | 0:21:20 | 0:21:24 | |
credibility and more
conversation to a product | 0:21:24 | 0:21:26 | |
which has already been
in | 0:21:26 | 0:21:27 | |
conversation for three months
and confused issues further. | 0:21:27 | 0:21:29 | |
I hope you know, at
the end of it all, a | 0:21:29 | 0:21:32 | |
film-maker or an actor or an artist,
the only thing they want is the | 0:21:33 | 0:21:36 | |
artwork is something that you can
watch and enjoy at ease. | 0:21:36 | 0:21:39 | |
So I wish for everybody's
film, I've had these | 0:21:39 | 0:21:42 | |
issues sometimes, you know,
without realising, it seems I may | 0:21:42 | 0:21:44 | |
have offended someone,
I've changed it. | 0:21:44 | 0:21:46 | |
I have no problems
changing it because | 0:21:46 | 0:21:48 | |
it's not a compromise,
because this freedom | 0:21:48 | 0:21:50 | |
of speech, expression... | 0:21:50 | 0:21:51 | |
You, if you make little changes,
if it's not going to... | 0:21:51 | 0:21:54 | |
It should not hurt you,
my art should not irk you | 0:21:54 | 0:21:57 | |
and disturb you. | 0:21:57 | 0:21:57 | |
But I asked you in the context
of women's rights | 0:21:57 | 0:22:00 | |
whether you would use your voice
more loudly to try and promote | 0:22:00 | 0:22:03 | |
women's rights and I put
it to you that perhaps | 0:22:03 | 0:22:06 | |
you ought to do that
as | 0:22:06 | 0:22:08 | |
it is a very famous Muslim icon,
not just an Indian icon. | 0:22:08 | 0:22:11 | |
You said a little while
ago, couple of years | 0:22:11 | 0:22:13 | |
ago, if there is a message
I want to give, it | 0:22:13 | 0:22:16 | |
would be good if there
is | 0:22:16 | 0:22:18 | |
no discrimination on the basis
of religious caste, creed, sex or | 0:22:18 | 0:22:21 | |
gender. | 0:22:21 | 0:22:21 | |
would be good if there
is | 0:22:21 | 0:22:23 | |
no discrimination on the basis
of religious caste, creed, sex or | 0:22:23 | 0:22:26 | |
gender. | 0:22:26 | 0:22:26 | |
Do you accept perhaps you should
be using your voice? | 0:22:26 | 0:22:29 | |
Yes, just as a human being,
not as a Muslim icon or a movie star | 0:22:29 | 0:22:33 | |
or an Indian, just as a human
being I should be using it louder, | 0:22:33 | 0:22:37 | |
I should be using it more
often, I should use... | 0:22:37 | 0:22:39 | |
I need to make myself a little more
useful to this world. | 0:22:40 | 0:22:43 | |
Inshallah I will. | 0:22:43 | 0:22:44 | |
And I'll try my best
in whatever way I can, | 0:22:44 | 0:22:46 | |
and I think they do it,
but none of us, I think, | 0:22:46 | 0:22:50 | |
in the world, do enough. | 0:22:50 | 0:22:51 | |
That is not an excuse
not to do more. | 0:22:51 | 0:22:53 | |
Your father, Meer Khan,
was a great admirer of Mahatma | 0:22:53 | 0:22:56 | |
Gandhi. | 0:22:56 | 0:22:58 | |
He believed in unity, diversity,
he was a devout Muslim. | 0:22:58 | 0:23:01 | |
You named your foundation after him. | 0:23:01 | 0:23:07 | |
Does his belief, his
philosophy, inspired you now? | 0:23:07 | 0:23:11 | |
The philosophy that inspired me
to do Meer Foundation | 0:23:11 | 0:23:13 | |
is the philosophy that might,
I said this today and yesterday, | 0:23:13 | 0:23:18 | |
my sister, my wife,
and my daughter have taught me. | 0:23:18 | 0:23:25 | |
They've brought me up well
so that I have to request, | 0:23:25 | 0:23:28 | |
I have to implore,
sometimes beg, for a yes. | 0:23:28 | 0:23:31 | |
Never force a woman for a yes. | 0:23:31 | 0:23:33 | |
I think that philosophy
is behind Meer Foundation. | 0:23:33 | 0:23:35 | |
Where I really want to get,
in which evidence, help out | 0:23:35 | 0:23:38 | |
the woman, who has not been given
the choice to say no, | 0:23:38 | 0:23:42 | |
or be able to assert her choices,
a little more effectively, | 0:23:42 | 0:23:45 | |
get out of the sole definition
that society, you know, | 0:23:45 | 0:23:47 | |
women's only problem
is we are defining them too much. | 0:23:47 | 0:23:50 | |
They just want to be
defined by themselves. | 0:23:50 | 0:23:53 | |
If I can be part of that movement,
part of that help, I think the three | 0:23:53 | 0:23:56 | |
women in my house and the women that
I work with, they are really | 0:23:57 | 0:24:00 | |
helping me find this path
and inshallah I'll be able | 0:24:00 | 0:24:03 | |
to take it further. | 0:24:03 | 0:24:10 | |
Shah Rukh Khan thank you very much
indeed for coming on HARDtalk. | 0:24:10 | 0:24:13 | |
Thank you. | 0:24:13 | 0:24:14 |