Jorge Faurie - Argentina's Foreign Minister HARDtalk

Now on BBC News it's

time for HARDtalk.

Welcome to HARDtalk from the World

Economic Forum in Davos. Argentina

says it wants to re-engage with the

world, especially to its presidency

at the G20. It wants better ties

with Washington after many years of

a poor relationship. My guess

Argentina's Foreign Minister Jorge

Faurie. Seven months into the job,

what is his assessment of ties with

the Trump administration which,

after all, has been unsettling its

neighbours in Latin America.

Foreign Minister Jorge Faurie,

welcome to HARDtalk.

Thank you very

much for inviting me.

Two years ago

when the president took office he

said he wanted to improve relations

with the world and Argentina's

neighbours. Can you encapsulate for

is what that means? We are trying to

reopen I'd -- Argentina to the

world.

We are trying to have

deliberations with everybody,

particularly with our neighbours. We

are trying to see what we can do

with each one independent of the

ideological position that they have.

The big one of course is the United

States and your president said he

wanted to charge a new cause with

Washington, the relations between

Argentina and the United States have

been extremely poor. Are they good

now?

We have done a lot of work

together, both countries. We have

been open in our political dialogue.

Were having good economic relations.

In a few days we will receive Rex

Tillerson. We have had the Vice

President visit. We have a dialogue

which is constructive. Recognising

the differences that we have.

Constructive dialogue with the

United States at a time when you

have Donald Trump in the White

House. He says he wants to build a

wall to keep the Mexicans out. A

former centrist Colombian President

said that this is a wall that will

separate cars Latin Americans from

the United States because if you

affect Mexico, you affect Latin

America. Argentina wants to hug him

but he wants to keep the region at

arm 's length.

We have good

relations with all the countries.

The wall is not in place. We are

discussing the bilateral relations

of Argentina in dialogue and

politics but also importantly for

us, dialogue for business. What we

can sell to the US and what they

want to sell to us.

This is an

important market. I will come to

economics in a moment but I'm just

saying that you say you want to have

a warm relationship with the United

States.

I did not say that...

You do

not want warm ties with the United

States? You want a cold

relationship?

We have a constructive

relationship from all countries and

we learn from each about what we can

do. I think we have established,

President Macri has established a

dialogue with President Trump that

is good and it allows us to call

whenever we need to say we have a

problem that we need to solve.

One

problematic thing between Latin

America, South America, Central

America and Washington, sometimes it

is the use of President Trump's

colourful language. For example, it

he did not want migrants from

countries like El Salvador and Haiti

saying that they are ? - whole

countries. -- F -- s-hole countries.

We share with all the Latin American

countries, were opened to migrants

and we respect the entity of each

country and the characteristic of

each.

It was offensive language,

wasn't it?

It is language that is

not good for dialogue.

You said we

are open to immigration from

countries in Latin America. That is

not quite the case because in 2017,

President Macri's government curbed

immigration to Argentina from poorer

countries in Latin America. He said

his first concern was caring for

Argentines, caring for ourselves.

Where is your Latin American

solidarity?

In our country with

emigration from Bolivia, Uruguay and

Paraguay, Peru and Chile, we have

plenty of people coming after the

situation in Venezuela. We are

country after 1942 has opened

frontiers.

What did he mean then?

The president was referring to us

not doing any military control

because we have an open border and

we do not struck -- restraint --

restrict the entry.

It meant that

newcomers from poorer countries in

Latin America were not so welcome.

In Latin America you have poor

people, in all countries including

Argentina. It is not against poor

people, we just want to know who is

coming and where they are from.

It

did provoke them reaction in the

region. The president of Bolivia

said that brothers, Latin American

presidents, we cannot follow the

immigration policies of the North. I

mean, it sounds like... He may not

have wanted to say but there is

concern that he may be tried to

follow Trump's America first policy.

Bolivians working and living in

Argentina and they are a

constructive part of our society.

The same goes for Peruvians and

Paraguay and. Their own

neighbourhoods in different areas of

big cities in Argentina which are

the Libyan Arab lion.

Is the point

wanted to make. This triggered a

debate in the country.

Some people

wanted to make an issue of something

which is not. I know which duped

radio station you are referring to.

The radio show host said that the

government wants to die let the fact

that a large share of us are

children or grandchildren of

immigrants, including President

Macri himself.

We are all descended

from a boat here in Argentina. We

have no particular issue of race,

religion or whatever to make a

difference. Migrants happen all the

time in Argentina because we are

migrants ourselves.

You accept them

that when President Macri said this

it triggered a debate that created

concern that you may be following

Donald Trump's rhetoric.

Some

elements of the press, some for

political reasons but it was not a

societal issue.

You see one a

constructive dialogue with the

United States. Andras Oppen

Oppenheimer, a Latin American

editor, he wrote in December that so

far the Trump administration has

only pursued a negative of gender

towards the region, opposing trade,

immigration and environmental

agreements and cutting foreign aid

without offering any constructive

plans to improve hemispheric ties.

It sounds you are extending the hand

but it is not being reciprocated.

I

cannot speak about myself and my own

situation. We have a constructive

dialogue in terms of trade. We have

investment from the American

companies. We have been reinstated

in the generalised system of

preferences which lowers commercial

barriers. Our dialogue with the

United States is good.

It has in the

United imposed tariffs on Argentine

bio diesel? We look to Europe and a

second... Trade tariffs on Argentine

bio diesel?

This is something that

happens with different countries to

discuss how to construct the price

of bio diesel. Week, the EU, they

did the same. We went to the WTO and

we won the panel. Now the Americans

are doing this because there are

people in the US who are still

affected. We say we are not being

affected the close you import from

many other countries. Let's discuss

this. This does not mean that the

relationship is good or bad. It is a

commercial issue.

You just said that

we want to open up trade.

And we

are.

We are. Yet here you have the

United States imposing tariffs.

Were

sending food, lemons, we are sending

pork, were sending different things

to the United States. We have our

discussion concerning bio diesel.

That is all. President Macri, before

assuming the president ship was

mirror of Buenos Aires and a former

business associate of Donald Trump.

Does not have a conflict of

interest? Between him and his ties

with Donald Trump?

Many years ago

they thought about building

something together in New York.

It

did not happen at all. Is at all? I

can tell you what the report say.

Press reports say that when

President Macri phone to Donald

Trump to congratulate him on the

coming president, Donald Trump's

daughter was also on the phone.

Donald Trump asked President Macri

to approve construction of a $100

million Trump Tower in Buenos Aires.

I think that that is very

far-fetched from the press.

So that

is not true. As leaders denied this

assertion but can you tell us what

happened?

President Macri called him

to congratulate him on his election

and he remembered that they have

been in touch sometimes and that is

it. I know you, you know me, that is

good. It is good to have someone

that I know sitting in the White

House.

Cedar believer will create a

conflict of interest?

Not at all.

Another aspect of your foreign

Wallasey in Argentina is that you

want to promote human rights and

democracy in the region to bring an

ethical dimensional to foreign

policy. We do promote human rights.

This is a long-standing position of

Argentina after the ending of the

military dictatorship. It is a

permanent policy of all government

in Argentina including mine.

You

have an ethical dimensional to

foreign policy but when it comes to

Venezuela and what is going on there

and the President is that the

president there is having and the

protests and so on and so forth, are

you not taking too tougher line

about what to do on Argentina?

What

line do you take? You have the

possibility of being elected to

office, following your ideals, of

having political rights and what is

the point of this if you cannot feed

yourself or have access to medicine.

If you're a economy is collapsing

and no-one is taking care of you.

What is your Venezuelan policy then?

Would you like to see a regime

change?

We want elections. Fair

elections that should be done the

sooner the better. But they must be

prepared. A fairer election means

that you have the government who can

control the electoral college that

will do the elections because if not

it will certainly be rigged. This is

something that not only Argentina

but all of the member of the group

of Lima are promoting. We want

Venezuelan to return to democracy.

And democracy as all countries

recognise it.

So you want to regime

change?

The elections must be free

and so far the last election, the

municipal ones, the state elections

and the one now announced to come

later on, they are not clear

elections. It is not democratic

system.

In November last year

President Macri said that we should

bode well for Lombardo. The

possession of your country is you

want a full embargo on Venezuelan.

It is quite difficult to change the

situation in terms of having a clear

election if the government still

receives funds from oil. That as the

market. If you want to see that the

government pursues our modern

democratic line you must emphasise

this.

Set in the United States not to take

any more oil from the area.

There were problems that made them

need to resume the oil from

Venezuela.

The United States has not

want to go that far by saying...

They have taken measures of their

own path, they are seizing all the

assets that the leader has.

You said

there is so much hardship in

Venezuela, people do not have enough

to eat and so on, 95% of Venezuela's

export revenue comes from the state

owned oil company. It is obvious

than what happens to the country

what happens when you cut off that

revenue.

We want to call the

attention to the change that has to

be done for Venezuela to become more

democratic.

This is what would

happen if there was a full embargo.

Local NGOs in Venezuela are opposed

to such a move. And economists said

"Cutting off the Venezuelan

government's access to dollars would

leave the economy without the hard

currency needed to pay for imports

of food and medicine, starving the

Venezuelan economy of its foreign

currency earnings. It risks turning

the country's current humanitarian

crisis into a full-blown

humanitarian catastrophe."

The

embargo is not going on.

If it did

happen that is what would happen.

The Venezuelans are already in a

catastrophe. They cannot be

themselves, they do not have food.

But she would make it worse. Your

policy of a full US embargo would

make it worse.

That is what people

are saying. The situation today, it

is the one you are describing.

Without even having an embargo. We

have to look at the economic

situation.

When the embargo make it

worse?

We will discuss that when it

comes.

President Macri has we want a

full embargo.

We are discussing with

the countries in the area what to do

with Venezuela, hell -- how to help

them come back to democracy.

Cynthia

Anson, an expert on the area says

there is a deep concern on this

issue of Venezuela and a deep

dialogue about what to do, but there

is also nobody calling for that

tough a lion. Generally, Latin

America is to any US unilateral

action.

Yes. We have been discussing

with all the members of the group of

Lema, what matters to have. These

measures always refer to the

possibility of doing something in

the United Nations. Unfortunately it

is paralysed.

The Organisation of

American States.

I Venezuela. In the

United Nations, they are deciding if

it is a social or humanitarian

problem in Venezuela. The countries

who are members of the group of Lima

would like to have measures and a

show good wit -- of goodwill. We

want to respect human rights and

give the population the population

to receive fruit and medicine, not

related to their ideological

position in me Venezuelan society.

You want to put pressure on the

government 's to bring that about.

We find different ways to put the

Venezuelans in attention about what

we're doing. We don't put pressure

actually to be governments, each

country it is different.

Do want

sanctions?

We did have sanctions.

In

terms of the local regional

grouping.

Of which Venezuela was a

part. We set until you return to

democracy you're no longer a member

of the group. You are suspended.

That is a kind of sanction. There

are other sentence, once the

European Union has taken. Taking the

assets of the political leaders.

Different kind of sanctions. That is

what we are moving around.

Here is

Argentina now, you have taken over

the chairmanship of the G20 and you

want to focus on three things in

your presidency, which is

infrastructure, social inclusion,

and food Security. Just give us a

Nakia of how you are going to go

about achieving this in setting up a

dialogue amongst the G20.

The G20 is

a dialogue amongst all the country

members who will decide what we can

do to improve this, infrastructure

is not only coming from the decision

of Argentina, it is we have been

discussing in G20, during the German

presidency as well. We violate the

possibilities of making a fund to

finance the infrastructure needs --

we will discuss. And some other

regions as well. In terms of social

inclusion, we are very much worried

about the impact of the

technological revolution which is in

impacting the Labour market which is

causing some types of work to

disappear. People need to Rhys Gill.

This comes into education.

-- Rika

skill. Within your grouping of

countries in Latin America, drugs is

always a big issue, drugs

trafficking, there is a growing

regional consensus that the war on

drugs has failed. It seems that the

Macri government is adopting a

hardline approach which is

counter-productive, some people say.

Why would it be counter-productive

to fight drugs? This is affecting

our youth, our society, the

structure of any countries where it

has been successful. Look at the

presence of different countries in

the area. We want to avoid that. We

have to have a very clear stance on

drugs as we have against terrorism,

because there is a connection also,

between the business of drugs with

terrorism.

The criticism is this, I

give you an example of what has been

said, my fellow burden, a security

expert, says the Macri government is

treating drugs mainly as a security

issue, there is no energy devoted to

programmes to reducing demand

treating addicts. This is that is

the part that is missing. You are

taking it as a very tough police...

We have, many years, different

governments, a very clear position

in trying to help the ones which

have come to the consumption. Now we

had to pay attention to the security

issues that brings the drug

business. The other plans are still

going on. So far all have been

developed over many years. This is a

concern to which Argentina Society

pays a lot of attention. The

previous government has not paid

attention to the control of the

borders concerning the people who

bring in drugs.

So another aspect of

the challenges the government is the

fact that two years ago when its

Coalition Government came to power,

the economy was in a very bad state,

heavily indebted, people were

finding it a real struggle, the cost

of living was very high.

Inflation

was...

Absolutely. The centrist pro-

market government comes in, but

expectations are high and you have

to deliver. President Macri's party

does not have a majority in

Parliament, Salah how easy, how

difficult is going to be volume try

to get his pro- market reforms

through?

-- so how easy? That makes

it much more worth while that the

reforms that President Macri and his

government are doing just to improve

our economical situation. The first

thing we had to improve was now

macroeconomics. Inflation was

rampant. Deficit was absolutely

high.

Wasteful subsidies. Cut

international credit.

Slowly, during

the first year, we paid our

investors on time, we tried to put

in order the deficit, we are

curtailing our deficit. We are now

trying to achieve 3.2% of our

deficit in the budget. These are

important measures taken. And the

people are also going along with

him. The elections that took place

last October were a reformation of

the actions taken by the government

of President Macri.

Some local

elections. Mid-term elections.

He

mid-term elections in Argentina

marks where the people want the

government to go.

-- the mid-term. I

must ask you this, an interesting

fact about Argentina and President

Macri himself as talked about, he

says he wants Argentina on the couch

to deal with its hangups, to make it

normal, he says. And he admits he

has been to a psychoanalyst himself.

And your country is famous for

having more psychologists per capita

than any other country in the world.

We share this condition with New

York...

New York as a city. You have

the accolade as a country. What is

it about the Argentine psyche?

We

discuss everything about psychology.

We discuss anything of our own lives

we can immediately to psychology.

But we have to be normal in the

sense of do whatever the other

countries are doing. That is the

reason we apply to become members of

the OECD, because there are certain

solutions, certain proposals on how

to move capital that are already

proved by the world. It is going and

trying to invent something, if we

can go where the normal people go.

As we say, we are not going to

invent, we use the bicycle as

everybody does. That is a normal

country. It is a psychological

approach to life. You have to be

more common sense.

Jorge Faurie,

thank you very much.

Thank you for

having me here. Thank you.