Boris Titov - Party of Growth, Russia HARDtalk


Boris Titov - Party of Growth, Russia

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55% of the ballot.

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It's just gone half past

four in the morning.

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Now on BBC News it's

time for HARDtalk.

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Welcome to HARDtalk I Stephen

Sackur. Seven candidates are

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challenging Vladimir Putin in this

month's Russian presidential

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election. Not one of them has a hope

of victory. To all intents and

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purposes, this is a show election to

confirm the popularity and power of

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Vladimir Putin. But is there a

danger for Russia in this

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urbanisation of politics? My guest

is one of the seven hatless are that

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candidates. Boris Titov, a Vladimir

Putin appointee for business. Does

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Russia need reform rather than

authoritarianism? Party of

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-- Boris Titov in Moscow, welcome to

HARDtalk. . You are going to be in

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the election that comes ahead in

just a few days from now. To the

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outside world, it looks at the

charade, a mockery of a democratic

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process. Is that the way it feels to

you?

No, it is a democratic process

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because we are all by our own world

participating in it. But of course

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the popularity of Vladimir Putin is

very high, and that is why we, of

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course, understand that the chances

are very low. Our chances are very

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low.

You are not really a serious

candidate, are you? Because during

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the course of the campaign, you have

said that as hang on...

I am a

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serious man. I am a businessman. By

the way a British businessman.

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Because I started my career and 89

in London.

Yes, well... Two 1989. In

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99. You said ombudsman. Not a

serious man. I don't think is

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serious man could handle this job.

It is a serious job. You said I am

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that it hidden's ombudsman. The fact

is yes. But, I mean, in reality, I

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am protecting the rights of

businessman from the state of

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Russia. Because in very many cases,

are - they're using administrative

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law, criminal law, corruption. So I

am protecting our businessmen from

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the Russian state.

Boris Titov, I

would want to get to your job. But

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even want to offend you. I didn't

want to say you were a serious man,

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what wanted to say you were not a

serious candidate. The Rizzo said

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that is because you have publicly

said, you know, but it didn't is the

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toughest politician of our day. --

Lammy Purdon is the toughest

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politician Barrett day.

-- Vladimir

Putin. Of course he has a great

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strength against us. But ever

understand is why we are

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participating in these elections.

Us, it is very important, this move.

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We were thinking as a group of

businessman in our union of non- oil

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business of Russia, who are

supporting me. And we were thinking

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prolonged time to go for the

selection or not, but we decided to

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do it. Why? Because we need to

promote our ideas. The idea that we

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have is a strategy for Russia. We

are the best macroeconomic and

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scientists in Russia and developed a

programme and this is a very

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profound programme. A real strategy.

We prepared it for two years. The

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main idea is that we have to change

the economy of Russia. We have to go

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from today's oil economy, resource

economy, to a real market economy.

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We had to promote small and medium

businesses. We have two promote

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industrial, technological

businesses. We have two make the

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country know about that.

Yes, but

the point... Let me stop you, let me

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stop you for a second. You say you

are full of important economic lives

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is due to make I'm sorry. No, don't

worry. You tell about these ideas of

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modernising Russia, and you say that

you, I can make this point, you note

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the election is a stride. But it

Purdon has not released a manifesto.

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-- Vladimir Putin. It is not regard

you are serious. The in the Kremlin

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wanted for you and others...

Let me

finish my point.

You were to stand

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as a figleaf to give the impression

that they were some sort of choice.

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I am sorry. The Kremlin did not want

me to stand. The only question that

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I asked the Kremlin, because I am

working in the Kremlin

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administration, so the only thing

which I asked was it would be a

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conflict of interest. Allow to leave

my day to day job to run for the

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election? They said, OK, we thought

it was not a conflict of interest,

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science still giving the job and

going for a elections. Otherwise, I

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would have to decide, because it is

a big chance that I would have left

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the job to run for the elections.

Alexei Navalny is by far the most

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prominent opposition voice in Russia

today. He wanted to run in the

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election. He was barred from running

on the basis of a conviction on

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jumped up charges which were

condemned by the European Court of

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Human Rights has been completely

unacceptable, and after that, Alessi

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Davante said to all Russians,

please, do not vote. -- Alexei

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Navalny. He said that it meant

fixing Vladimir Putin's problem by

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helping in disguise his appointment

by making it look like serving like

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a proper election. Why did you not

heed his words?

Because if beverage

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will go for the polls, but it Purdon

will win with 100%. Those who are

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not agreeing with the economic,

don't agree with the economical, if

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they will not go, the country and

Vladimir Putin will think that

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everyone supports him. Even 10% of

people, 15%, 20%, they will come and

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they will say we are voting for

other people as candidates. So we

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will see the picture, the social

picture in Russia, the picture of

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opinions in Russia. So Alexi Diwali,

of course, we can talk about his

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legal situation. Only about 1.5 or

2% of people support him.

With

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respect, your current poll standing

is less than 1%, so...

I won't

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compete with Alexei Navalny. We'll

see final stand. At least in one

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week, you will see our result. Of

course we are not professional

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politicians. We are professional

economists. But anyway, Alexei

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Navalny asked his supporters, and he

had to make them come and vote for

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him or if you can't vote because he

was legally not in the list, but

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there were other possibilities to do

that. So I think that we had to have

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more competition at every social

group supporting any candidate and

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having the right to have very

candidate and to come and vote.

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Boris Titov, we will talk economy,

because that is a real interest. But

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before we do that, we need to talk

about what Vladimir Putin seems to

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regard as the most important message

in the election. And that is his

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message on foreign policy. A

bellicose, assertive, big message to

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the Russian people about restoring

Russian pride and taking on Russia's

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enemies wherever they may be. Do you

support that element of let me

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Purdon's message?

That is not the

message he gives to the Russian

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people. Mostly the message is for

the West. And this message could be

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read as you don't want to talk to us

when we are weak. We think that you

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will talk with us when we will be

strong. I think the perception of

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the situation in the world is

different, between the Western

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Vladimir Putin. He thinks the West

made many mistakes against Russia.

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-- between the West and that it had.

I partly agree with that. Because in

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the 90s, the West did not support

them in the Democrat presses. We

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thought there would be huge

educational programmes. Thousands of

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Russians will go to the West to

learn about democracy and the market

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economy seat done. Of course,

Vladimir Putin considers as not

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understanding of the Russian

interest in the world. -- on the

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market economy.

Sorry to interrupt.

I don't mean to be rude. There is a

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time delay on the line and is the

ant is too long, we will not get

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through all of the important issues

that we need to get through. On this

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point, I am mindful that you are an

opposition candidate tried to remove

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Vladimir Putin from the Kremlin. But

your message to the outside world is

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what? That you support his invasion

and annexation of Crimea? That you

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support Russian trips in eastern

Ukraine? That you support the

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intervention... -- Russian troops.

Two I support some things and not

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others.

-- I support something.

Crimea was never Ukrainian. The

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mistake was made by Boris Yeltsin

when they didn't even consider the

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issue of Crimea when they signed the

agreements. Because nobody even

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thought that Crimea is Ukrainian at

that time. And he just let it go

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without any - without even putting -

because he was so fast and hard to

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move these agreements forwards

because he wanted to be the

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president of Russia. He was the

president of Russia, but it was

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Gorbachev who was the president of

the soviet union. In order to push

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through the agreements and just

destroy the soviet union.

I want

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your view on selling top level in

the United Kingdom today. And that

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is the very mysterious illness, the

critical honours, a rational double

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agent in hospital fibrous life

alongside his daughter. Sergei

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Skripal was seen to be working for

the UK, went to Russia, then was

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sent to the UK any spy swap.

That

was not a question, that was a

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position.

Do you think Russia's

response will for what has happened

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to Sergei Skripal?

And have nothing

to do without, and I can say that

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you do not speculate on that. It you

start speculating, even if they did

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not give his declination what

happened. There was no investigation

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about that. Why we should put

everything on the hard side? Why

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should we think about the enemy

psychology from the first thing,

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from the first thing? Will never

agree on anything. We will never

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agree on anything.

We might want to

think about Vladimir Putin's

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responsibilities, because you might

think that in 2010...

You have

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already jetted about that.

Not at

all. Had he respond to this? If you

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don't mind, let me ask the

questions. Back in 2010, at the time

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of the spy swap, Vladimir Putin said

traders were kicked the bucket. They

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have betrayed their friends for 30

pieces of silver and they will choke

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on them. Of course, many people are

wondering whether Vladimir Putin...

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I haven't heard this expression, but

I cannot comment on that. I never

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had anything to do with spy

investigations or spy works. So let

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me free-to be free out of these

questions. I want to talk about the

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economical side. What I will you if

I may, the world is very small.

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Before we talked and signed the

agreements with you, before that,

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Churchill and Stalin signed the

agreement and further agreements

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post-war. For together against their

enemies. Now we need to find ways to

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meet each other.

I understand your

point, Boris Titov, but it is not

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working away, right now, because of

Russia's actions in Ukraine and

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elsewhere.

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When Hughes start your question...

What is the right word in English?

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With accusations and not trying to

find

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With accusations and not trying to

find the right way to find each

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other. Boris Titov, UKIP trying to

tell myself you're an opponent of

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Putin? I am an opponent of Putin but

IME favour of Russia. When I see

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what happened, I have been living in

London for many years. I'd children

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have British passports and what I

see now happening... Did not know

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what to call it, it is a circus or

whatever, that people just do not

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talk to each other, this is complete

nonsense.

You want reform, you want

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to open up the Russian economy,

modernise it and massive

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international investment in Russia

but do you not see it with the

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attitude of Vladimir Putin right

now, you are not going to get any of

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that. You are going to get

sanctions, more international

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isolation and less investment...

Maybe you think like that but with

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more free economy in Russia, there

will be investment and foreign

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investment. The politics are

politics but we know, we're

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practical people, businessmen, we

know that, to the Soviet Union,

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there was foreign investment from

written, they were coming because,

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if there was a trust even at that

time, we can talk, and when we talk

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figures, investments, mutual

projects...

In fact, it is going the

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other way. It is not going the other

way. ExxonMobil just pulled out of a

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major joint venture because of the

sanctions. Both the UN and US are

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talking about strengthening

sanctions.

I just had lunch in

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McDonald's. We have all the main

brands staying in Russia.

I hope you

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enjoyed your burger but the fact

that... I like... And the fact is

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quite simple, you can eat as many

cheeseburgers as you like but

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foreign direct investment in Russia

has plummeted in recent years and

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you are a manner that is supposed to

be advocating...

It is true. It is

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true. We have a big potential in our

possible economical development.

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Russia is a huge possibility of

growth. We are saying we cannot do

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it by ourselves. We have quite a

strong Russian business community.

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We have technologies. A lot of

experts are still working in Russia.

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You are the Ombudsman there, would

you agree with me that for example

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the use of the law and the courts by

big companies to intimidate smaller

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companies, to manipulate...

That's

not right. The biggest problem now

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in Russia is corruption. And threats

from the State to businessmen. Where

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criminal law is used against

companies. We have to protect the

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rights, we have to take people out

of jails because, according to the

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Russian laws, businessmen before the

court could not be jailed. It is a

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recent law. But they are still

jailed. I have just been in London

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and we had the list of Russian

businessmen who have escaped from

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Russia and they are living in

London, Greece, Spain and different

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countries...

Boris Titov at this is

really important. And you are being

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very frank about the degree of

corruption in your country and that

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matters because you are the

Ombudsman the business and it is

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important to businessmen to believe

in their ability to safeguard their

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interests if corruption is corroding

their system. A simple question, the

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youth think Vladimir Putin and his

cronies and France, many from Saint

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Petersburg, are crooked?

I can say I

do not know this. I can say to you,

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I talk to Vladimir Putin about our

strategy of growth. This is our

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programme. And what he did is he

tried to move this way for more

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competition...

I am asking you

whether you believe Vladimir Putin

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is corrupt?

I have never seen any

deals with Putin on corruption. I

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have never seen it anywhere.

Really?

Really! Let me read to you the

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latest Helsinki commission report,

highly respected, on Russian.

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Endemic corruption is a defining

characteristic of the Putin regime

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while the President is the prime

beneficiary, cronies maintain a

0:20:090:20:16

system of corruption. These low

support is necessary to ensure the

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status quo and they often pursue the

governments illicit interests. That

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is the Helsinki commission report

putting the blame on Putin himself.

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Helsinki... I do not know about

Helsinki but they have never seen

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anybody from Putin's Administration

asking for a bribe, at least in

0:20:350:20:45

business. I have never seen, I

cannot comment on that.

You're

0:20:450:20:50

trying to beat Putin in this

election, wouldn't it be worth your

0:20:500:20:59

way at these allegations?

I am

saying we have to work and go

0:20:590:21:06

forward. If we will claim that

everything is bad and this, this,

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and this bash by the way not very

proved. Alexei Navalny's

0:21:130:21:21

accusations... At least I have not

seen the proved by coming back to

0:21:210:21:26

the main idea. We need to go

forward. We understand the problems

0:21:260:21:32

we have in Russia. Corruption. The

main corruption is a huge garden...

0:21:320:21:45

I did not know how to say it in

English... A huge sector of Russian

0:21:450:21:53

society which we call it the Russian

middle-class, which are all

0:21:530:21:59

bureaucrats, you know, the people

from the government and this

0:21:590:22:04

practically middle-class pushes

Russian politics forward. They are

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interesting all the politics in

Russia. -- influencing. They do not

0:22:120:22:20

want peace to go forward because

they relate on that budget salary,

0:22:200:22:24

corruption and we see it every day.

When businessmen are put in jail,

0:22:240:22:29

the next day comes somebody who

says, you want to sit in jail? You

0:22:290:22:34

give some payment to this company

and you will be released.

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Practically 60% of businessmen who

went in jail... We are almost out of

0:22:380:22:44

time... The main problem of Russia

is this corruption.

You have spoken

0:22:440:22:49

frankly about corruption in Russia.

In a few days there will be an

0:22:490:22:56

election and I hate to say this but

you are not going to win, Vladimir

0:22:560:23:00

Putin is going to win. How damaging

will 64 years of let me Putin be?

0:23:000:23:07

This election is not about electing

a president. Speaking honestly. Yes,

0:23:070:23:14

he has a big advantage against all

of us but this election is about how

0:23:140:23:19

Russia will be after the elections.

And who will influence on the

0:23:190:23:25

economy to go to the site of market

competition and for the

0:23:250:23:29

versification of the economy. -- de

versification. The other way is back

0:23:290:23:37

the 90s, backed to the Soviet Union,

I'm afraid to say. This is a very

0:23:370:23:44

possible alternative so we are

fighting for that. That we do not

0:23:440:23:50

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