Boris Titov - Party of Growth, Russia HARDtalk

55% of the ballot.

It's just gone half past

four in the morning.

Now on BBC News it's

time for HARDtalk.

Welcome to HARDtalk I Stephen

Sackur. Seven candidates are

challenging Vladimir Putin in this

month's Russian presidential

election. Not one of them has a hope

of victory. To all intents and

purposes, this is a show election to

confirm the popularity and power of

Vladimir Putin. But is there a

danger for Russia in this

urbanisation of politics? My guest

is one of the seven hatless are that

candidates. Boris Titov, a Vladimir

Putin appointee for business. Does

Russia need reform rather than

authoritarianism? Party of

-- Boris Titov in Moscow, welcome to

HARDtalk. . You are going to be in

the election that comes ahead in

just a few days from now. To the

outside world, it looks at the

charade, a mockery of a democratic

process. Is that the way it feels to

you?

No, it is a democratic process

because we are all by our own world

participating in it. But of course

the popularity of Vladimir Putin is

very high, and that is why we, of

course, understand that the chances

are very low. Our chances are very

low.

You are not really a serious

candidate, are you? Because during

the course of the campaign, you have

said that as hang on...

I am a

serious man. I am a businessman. By

the way a British businessman.

Because I started my career and 89

in London.

Yes, well... Two 1989. In

99. You said ombudsman. Not a

serious man. I don't think is

serious man could handle this job.

It is a serious job. You said I am

that it hidden's ombudsman. The fact

is yes. But, I mean, in reality, I

am protecting the rights of

businessman from the state of

Russia. Because in very many cases,

are - they're using administrative

law, criminal law, corruption. So I

am protecting our businessmen from

the Russian state.

Boris Titov, I

would want to get to your job. But

even want to offend you. I didn't

want to say you were a serious man,

what wanted to say you were not a

serious candidate. The Rizzo said

that is because you have publicly

said, you know, but it didn't is the

toughest politician of our day. --

Lammy Purdon is the toughest

politician Barrett day.

-- Vladimir

Putin. Of course he has a great

strength against us. But ever

understand is why we are

participating in these elections.

Us, it is very important, this move.

We were thinking as a group of

businessman in our union of non- oil

business of Russia, who are

supporting me. And we were thinking

prolonged time to go for the

selection or not, but we decided to

do it. Why? Because we need to

promote our ideas. The idea that we

have is a strategy for Russia. We

are the best macroeconomic and

scientists in Russia and developed a

programme and this is a very

profound programme. A real strategy.

We prepared it for two years. The

main idea is that we have to change

the economy of Russia. We have to go

from today's oil economy, resource

economy, to a real market economy.

We had to promote small and medium

businesses. We have two promote

industrial, technological

businesses. We have two make the

country know about that.

Yes, but

the point... Let me stop you, let me

stop you for a second. You say you

are full of important economic lives

is due to make I'm sorry. No, don't

worry. You tell about these ideas of

modernising Russia, and you say that

you, I can make this point, you note

the election is a stride. But it

Purdon has not released a manifesto.

-- Vladimir Putin. It is not regard

you are serious. The in the Kremlin

wanted for you and others...

Let me

finish my point.

You were to stand

as a figleaf to give the impression

that they were some sort of choice.

I am sorry. The Kremlin did not want

me to stand. The only question that

I asked the Kremlin, because I am

working in the Kremlin

administration, so the only thing

which I asked was it would be a

conflict of interest. Allow to leave

my day to day job to run for the

election? They said, OK, we thought

it was not a conflict of interest,

science still giving the job and

going for a elections. Otherwise, I

would have to decide, because it is

a big chance that I would have left

the job to run for the elections.

Alexei Navalny is by far the most

prominent opposition voice in Russia

today. He wanted to run in the

election. He was barred from running

on the basis of a conviction on

jumped up charges which were

condemned by the European Court of

Human Rights has been completely

unacceptable, and after that, Alessi

Davante said to all Russians,

please, do not vote. -- Alexei

Navalny. He said that it meant

fixing Vladimir Putin's problem by

helping in disguise his appointment

by making it look like serving like

a proper election. Why did you not

heed his words?

Because if beverage

will go for the polls, but it Purdon

will win with 100%. Those who are

not agreeing with the economic,

don't agree with the economical, if

they will not go, the country and

Vladimir Putin will think that

everyone supports him. Even 10% of

people, 15%, 20%, they will come and

they will say we are voting for

other people as candidates. So we

will see the picture, the social

picture in Russia, the picture of

opinions in Russia. So Alexi Diwali,

of course, we can talk about his

legal situation. Only about 1.5 or

2% of people support him.

With

respect, your current poll standing

is less than 1%, so...

I won't

compete with Alexei Navalny. We'll

see final stand. At least in one

week, you will see our result. Of

course we are not professional

politicians. We are professional

economists. But anyway, Alexei

Navalny asked his supporters, and he

had to make them come and vote for

him or if you can't vote because he

was legally not in the list, but

there were other possibilities to do

that. So I think that we had to have

more competition at every social

group supporting any candidate and

having the right to have very

candidate and to come and vote.

Boris Titov, we will talk economy,

because that is a real interest. But

before we do that, we need to talk

about what Vladimir Putin seems to

regard as the most important message

in the election. And that is his

message on foreign policy. A

bellicose, assertive, big message to

the Russian people about restoring

Russian pride and taking on Russia's

enemies wherever they may be. Do you

support that element of let me

Purdon's message?

That is not the

message he gives to the Russian

people. Mostly the message is for

the West. And this message could be

read as you don't want to talk to us

when we are weak. We think that you

will talk with us when we will be

strong. I think the perception of

the situation in the world is

different, between the Western

Vladimir Putin. He thinks the West

made many mistakes against Russia.

-- between the West and that it had.

I partly agree with that. Because in

the 90s, the West did not support

them in the Democrat presses. We

thought there would be huge

educational programmes. Thousands of

Russians will go to the West to

learn about democracy and the market

economy seat done. Of course,

Vladimir Putin considers as not

understanding of the Russian

interest in the world. -- on the

market economy.

Sorry to interrupt.

I don't mean to be rude. There is a

time delay on the line and is the

ant is too long, we will not get

through all of the important issues

that we need to get through. On this

point, I am mindful that you are an

opposition candidate tried to remove

Vladimir Putin from the Kremlin. But

your message to the outside world is

what? That you support his invasion

and annexation of Crimea? That you

support Russian trips in eastern

Ukraine? That you support the

intervention... -- Russian troops.

Two I support some things and not

others.

-- I support something.

Crimea was never Ukrainian. The

mistake was made by Boris Yeltsin

when they didn't even consider the

issue of Crimea when they signed the

agreements. Because nobody even

thought that Crimea is Ukrainian at

that time. And he just let it go

without any - without even putting -

because he was so fast and hard to

move these agreements forwards

because he wanted to be the

president of Russia. He was the

president of Russia, but it was

Gorbachev who was the president of

the soviet union. In order to push

through the agreements and just

destroy the soviet union.

I want

your view on selling top level in

the United Kingdom today. And that

is the very mysterious illness, the

critical honours, a rational double

agent in hospital fibrous life

alongside his daughter. Sergei

Skripal was seen to be working for

the UK, went to Russia, then was

sent to the UK any spy swap.

That

was not a question, that was a

position.

Do you think Russia's

response will for what has happened

to Sergei Skripal?

And have nothing

to do without, and I can say that

you do not speculate on that. It you

start speculating, even if they did

not give his declination what

happened. There was no investigation

about that. Why we should put

everything on the hard side? Why

should we think about the enemy

psychology from the first thing,

from the first thing? Will never

agree on anything. We will never

agree on anything.

We might want to

think about Vladimir Putin's

responsibilities, because you might

think that in 2010...

You have

already jetted about that.

Not at

all. Had he respond to this? If you

don't mind, let me ask the

questions. Back in 2010, at the time

of the spy swap, Vladimir Putin said

traders were kicked the bucket. They

have betrayed their friends for 30

pieces of silver and they will choke

on them. Of course, many people are

wondering whether Vladimir Putin...

I haven't heard this expression, but

I cannot comment on that. I never

had anything to do with spy

investigations or spy works. So let

me free-to be free out of these

questions. I want to talk about the

economical side. What I will you if

I may, the world is very small.

Before we talked and signed the

agreements with you, before that,

Churchill and Stalin signed the

agreement and further agreements

post-war. For together against their

enemies. Now we need to find ways to

meet each other.

I understand your

point, Boris Titov, but it is not

working away, right now, because of

Russia's actions in Ukraine and

elsewhere.

When Hughes start your question...

What is the right word in English?

With accusations and not trying to

find

With accusations and not trying to

find the right way to find each

other. Boris Titov, UKIP trying to

tell myself you're an opponent of

Putin? I am an opponent of Putin but

IME favour of Russia. When I see

what happened, I have been living in

London for many years. I'd children

have British passports and what I

see now happening... Did not know

what to call it, it is a circus or

whatever, that people just do not

talk to each other, this is complete

nonsense.

You want reform, you want

to open up the Russian economy,

modernise it and massive

international investment in Russia

but do you not see it with the

attitude of Vladimir Putin right

now, you are not going to get any of

that. You are going to get

sanctions, more international

isolation and less investment...

Maybe you think like that but with

more free economy in Russia, there

will be investment and foreign

investment. The politics are

politics but we know, we're

practical people, businessmen, we

know that, to the Soviet Union,

there was foreign investment from

written, they were coming because,

if there was a trust even at that

time, we can talk, and when we talk

figures, investments, mutual

projects...

In fact, it is going the

other way. It is not going the other

way. ExxonMobil just pulled out of a

major joint venture because of the

sanctions. Both the UN and US are

talking about strengthening

sanctions.

I just had lunch in

McDonald's. We have all the main

brands staying in Russia.

I hope you

enjoyed your burger but the fact

that... I like... And the fact is

quite simple, you can eat as many

cheeseburgers as you like but

foreign direct investment in Russia

has plummeted in recent years and

you are a manner that is supposed to

be advocating...

It is true. It is

true. We have a big potential in our

possible economical development.

Russia is a huge possibility of

growth. We are saying we cannot do

it by ourselves. We have quite a

strong Russian business community.

We have technologies. A lot of

experts are still working in Russia.

You are the Ombudsman there, would

you agree with me that for example

the use of the law and the courts by

big companies to intimidate smaller

companies, to manipulate...

That's

not right. The biggest problem now

in Russia is corruption. And threats

from the State to businessmen. Where

criminal law is used against

companies. We have to protect the

rights, we have to take people out

of jails because, according to the

Russian laws, businessmen before the

court could not be jailed. It is a

recent law. But they are still

jailed. I have just been in London

and we had the list of Russian

businessmen who have escaped from

Russia and they are living in

London, Greece, Spain and different

countries...

Boris Titov at this is

really important. And you are being

very frank about the degree of

corruption in your country and that

matters because you are the

Ombudsman the business and it is

important to businessmen to believe

in their ability to safeguard their

interests if corruption is corroding

their system. A simple question, the

youth think Vladimir Putin and his

cronies and France, many from Saint

Petersburg, are crooked?

I can say I

do not know this. I can say to you,

I talk to Vladimir Putin about our

strategy of growth. This is our

programme. And what he did is he

tried to move this way for more

competition...

I am asking you

whether you believe Vladimir Putin

is corrupt?

I have never seen any

deals with Putin on corruption. I

have never seen it anywhere.

Really?

Really! Let me read to you the

latest Helsinki commission report,

highly respected, on Russian.

Endemic corruption is a defining

characteristic of the Putin regime

while the President is the prime

beneficiary, cronies maintain a

system of corruption. These low

support is necessary to ensure the

status quo and they often pursue the

governments illicit interests. That

is the Helsinki commission report

putting the blame on Putin himself.

Helsinki... I do not know about

Helsinki but they have never seen

anybody from Putin's Administration

asking for a bribe, at least in

business. I have never seen, I

cannot comment on that.

You're

trying to beat Putin in this

election, wouldn't it be worth your

way at these allegations?

I am

saying we have to work and go

forward. If we will claim that

everything is bad and this, this,

and this bash by the way not very

proved. Alexei Navalny's

accusations... At least I have not

seen the proved by coming back to

the main idea. We need to go

forward. We understand the problems

we have in Russia. Corruption. The

main corruption is a huge garden...

I did not know how to say it in

English... A huge sector of Russian

society which we call it the Russian

middle-class, which are all

bureaucrats, you know, the people

from the government and this

practically middle-class pushes

Russian politics forward. They are

interesting all the politics in

Russia. -- influencing. They do not

want peace to go forward because

they relate on that budget salary,

corruption and we see it every day.

When businessmen are put in jail,

the next day comes somebody who

says, you want to sit in jail? You

give some payment to this company

and you will be released.

Practically 60% of businessmen who

went in jail... We are almost out of

time... The main problem of Russia

is this corruption.

You have spoken

frankly about corruption in Russia.

In a few days there will be an

election and I hate to say this but

you are not going to win, Vladimir

Putin is going to win. How damaging

will 64 years of let me Putin be?

This election is not about electing

a president. Speaking honestly. Yes,

he has a big advantage against all

of us but this election is about how

Russia will be after the elections.

And who will influence on the

economy to go to the site of market

competition and for the

versification of the economy. -- de

versification. The other way is back

the 90s, backed to the Soviet Union,

I'm afraid to say. This is a very

possible alternative so we are

fighting for that. That we do not