Browse content similar to Patrisse Khan-Cullors, co-founder Black Lives Matter. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Now on BBC News, it's
time for HARDtalk. | 0:00:00 | 0:00:14 | |
Welcome to HARDtalk, I'm Sarah
Montague. The woman who forced coin | 0:00:14 | 0:00:19 | |
the slogan Black Lives Matter and is
the American Patrisse Khan-Cullors. | 0:00:19 | 0:00:24 | |
She first used it as a hashtag on a
friend's Facebook post back in 2013. | 0:00:24 | 0:00:31 | |
Since then, Black Lives Matter has
taken off as a political movement | 0:00:31 | 0:00:35 | |
around the world. She has now
written about her own experience of | 0:00:35 | 0:00:39 | |
growing up in a poor black family in
California and how she is convinced | 0:00:39 | 0:00:45 | |
that it races and state violence
against African-Americans can be | 0:00:45 | 0:00:50 | |
stopped, then other problems in the
black community such as poverty, | 0:00:50 | 0:00:54 | |
poor education and crime will
disappear too. Is she right? And is | 0:00:54 | 0:01:00 | |
a movement founded on a hashtag have
any part to play in finding a | 0:01:00 | 0:01:04 | |
solution? Patrisse Khan-Cullors,
welcome to HARDtalk Thank you for | 0:01:04 | 0:01:32 | |
having me. When you typed hashtag
Black Lives Matter to the bottom of | 0:01:32 | 0:01:39 | |
your friend's Facebook post, what
were you thinking? I was thinking | 0:01:39 | 0:01:44 | |
that our generation wasn't going to
allow George Zimmerman to have the | 0:01:44 | 0:01:51 | |
end of the story in Treyvon Martin's
death. George Zimmerman was the man | 0:01:51 | 0:01:57 | |
convicted of the death of Treyvon
Martin. -- acquitted. The moment he | 0:01:57 | 0:02:03 | |
was acquitted, I was full of despair
but rather quickly understood there | 0:02:03 | 0:02:06 | |
had to be a new conversation about
and antiblack racism in this country | 0:02:06 | 0:02:15 | |
in the world. But things must have
irritated you and others. What made | 0:02:15 | 0:02:21 | |
it about that moment that made you
feel that and made it travel as it | 0:02:21 | 0:02:26 | |
did? I think it was witnessing
George Zimmerman and the trial | 0:02:26 | 0:02:31 | |
against in actually be a trial
against Treyvon Martin. It was | 0:02:31 | 0:02:35 | |
spending an entire year waiting for
a justice system that has | 0:02:35 | 0:02:40 | |
historically been terrible to black
communities give this white passing | 0:02:40 | 0:02:45 | |
person are passed to go home after
murdering a child. I think it was | 0:02:45 | 0:02:49 | |
spending time in my life seen over
policing in my neighbourhood, over | 0:02:49 | 0:02:57 | |
incarceration in my neighbourhood
and it came to a head when George | 0:02:57 | 0:03:01 | |
Zimmerman was acquitted. This was an
unarmed black man, a youngster, a | 0:03:01 | 0:03:07 | |
teenager. Yes. You've written about
it in your book, When They Call You | 0:03:07 | 0:03:22 | |
a Terrorist, and talking about your
experiences, when you talked about | 0:03:22 | 0:03:25 | |
incarceration of those around you,
your own father, your brother sent | 0:03:25 | 0:03:27 | |
to prison but the things they had
done wrong. Sometimes. And sometimes | 0:03:27 | 0:03:32 | |
it was because they were hurting. My
father was a drug addict. He was on | 0:03:32 | 0:03:39 | |
and off of crack cocaine. In the US,
we have the war on drugs and so for | 0:03:39 | 0:03:47 | |
my father, what he needed was care.
He needed dignity and instead he was | 0:03:47 | 0:03:51 | |
given a jail cell, he was given
policing. My brother, whose only | 0:03:51 | 0:03:58 | |
crime has been mental illness, he
has schizoaffective disorder, these | 0:03:58 | 0:04:03 | |
should not be crimes, they should be
illnesses as they are. But those | 0:04:03 | 0:04:08 | |
cases, neither of those peculiar to
race, are they? Those cross all | 0:04:08 | 0:04:14 | |
races in the United States. Of
course. Drug addiction and mental | 0:04:14 | 0:04:18 | |
illness is an issue that everybody
faces. It's a universal issue. What | 0:04:18 | 0:04:24 | |
is not universal is the
criminalisation of black people in | 0:04:24 | 0:04:28 | |
particular and I think important.
What we see with my brother, for | 0:04:28 | 0:04:32 | |
instance, a big black man, in his
early years, intervention shouldn't | 0:04:32 | 0:04:38 | |
have been juvenile hall. The
intervention should have been mental | 0:04:38 | 0:04:42 | |
health treatment and that is
different and mostly white | 0:04:42 | 0:04:46 | |
communities and I have spoken to
folks who read the book who said, I | 0:04:46 | 0:04:50 | |
relate so much to your brother's
mental illness but I did not have to | 0:04:50 | 0:04:55 | |
experienced what he experienced
because I am white you, you talk | 0:04:55 | 0:04:58 | |
about large family, and you grew up,
your mother was working a lot of the | 0:04:58 | 0:05:04 | |
time, you were brought up by an
older brother. Yes, yes. And you | 0:05:04 | 0:05:08 | |
saw, you talk about when you are 12,
I think, one of your earliest | 0:05:08 | 0:05:13 | |
experiences. With the police, I was
arrested and detained at my school. | 0:05:13 | 0:05:18 | |
I had been smoking weed in the girls
bathroom. Anthony incident with the | 0:05:18 | 0:05:24 | |
police didn't happen that day, it
happened a couple of days later in | 0:05:24 | 0:05:28 | |
which a police officer came into my
classroom and whispered into my | 0:05:28 | 0:05:33 | |
teacher's year and the next thing, I
am being summoned to the front of | 0:05:33 | 0:05:38 | |
the classroom, handcuffed in front
of my classmates and walked down the | 0:05:38 | 0:05:42 | |
hallway where I was stopped and
frisked and they told me to call my | 0:05:42 | 0:05:47 | |
mother and let her know why I had
been arrested in school. And you | 0:05:47 | 0:05:52 | |
were taken to... The principal's
office. So aged 12, the police were | 0:05:52 | 0:05:58 | |
called. Because people will listen
and think, your father did drugs, he | 0:05:58 | 0:06:02 | |
was on crack. You were smoking weed
when you are 12. Why, what is wrong | 0:06:02 | 0:06:08 | |
in a way with trying to police that?
I think what we've noticed over the | 0:06:08 | 0:06:15 | |
last 15, 20 years is the war on
drugs and didn't actually stop drug | 0:06:15 | 0:06:20 | |
use. It didn't stop drug selling. In
fact, the war on drugs was just an | 0:06:20 | 0:06:26 | |
excuse to criminalise some of the
most marginalised communities. I | 0:06:26 | 0:06:30 | |
think was also important, and I talk
about it in my book, is that I went | 0:06:30 | 0:06:36 | |
to a middle school with mostly white
kids and in my experience, had this | 0:06:36 | 0:06:44 | |
particular experience when I went to
my friend's house, and she | 0:06:44 | 0:06:47 | |
introduces me to her brother who,
you know, just young white kid, and | 0:06:47 | 0:06:53 | |
she opens up his door, and his
countertop is full of drugs, | 0:06:53 | 0:06:58 | |
literally. Every drug. I had never
seen that many drugs in my life. And | 0:06:58 | 0:07:03 | |
I kind of looked over at her and she
didn't really bat an eye but it was | 0:07:03 | 0:07:08 | |
in that moment that understood, oh,
both of our communities are not just | 0:07:08 | 0:07:13 | |
using drugs but selling them except
my community has been criminalise | 0:07:13 | 0:07:19 | |
for it and he was not afraid at all
about the police being in his | 0:07:19 | 0:07:23 | |
neighbourhood. In fact, I never saw
the police in his neighbourhood. And | 0:07:23 | 0:07:27 | |
your brother, your brother Monty's
experiences in prison, and we should | 0:07:27 | 0:07:33 | |
set this in the context of the
prison population. 14% of the United | 0:07:33 | 0:07:40 | |
States are black but the prison
population, 38% are black. You are | 0:07:40 | 0:07:46 | |
five times more likely to be
incarcerated if you are black. And | 0:07:46 | 0:07:50 | |
the experience, and you didn't
particularly know, what your brother | 0:07:50 | 0:07:53 | |
was going through, it was many years
later you discovered. Yes, I knew he | 0:07:53 | 0:07:59 | |
had been abused by the police but I
wouldn't know the extent of the | 0:07:59 | 0:08:04 | |
abuse or the fact that he was
tortured until probably a decade | 0:08:04 | 0:08:07 | |
later. And how did you find out? I
came across an ACLU 86- page | 0:08:07 | 0:08:18 | |
complaint, the American Civil
Liberties Union, and I'd just happen | 0:08:18 | 0:08:21 | |
to sit in my email inbox, I have it
up and saw they were suing the | 0:08:21 | 0:08:26 | |
Sheriff 's Department and the piqued
my interest, a terrible incident | 0:08:26 | 0:08:30 | |
with the Los Angeles sheriff, so I
read the 86- page complaint within | 0:08:30 | 0:08:35 | |
the power and it was story up on
story, 70 sworn statements from | 0:08:35 | 0:08:42 | |
prisoners but also to boost
testimonies were from a jail | 0:08:42 | 0:08:51 | |
chaplain -- also to of those
testimonies were from a jail | 0:08:51 | 0:08:54 | |
chaplain who had first-hand
experience of witnessing the police | 0:08:54 | 0:08:58 | |
brutality inside a jail. And the
second one was someone who worked | 0:08:58 | 0:09:01 | |
for the ACLU who witnessed a
prisoner being beaten by the | 0:09:01 | 0:09:06 | |
Sheriff's Department and it was
almost that moment when I read it | 0:09:06 | 0:09:09 | |
that I heard my brother's story and
I called him, he had just been | 0:09:09 | 0:09:14 | |
released from State prison, and said
the sheriff is being sued and he | 0:09:14 | 0:09:17 | |
said finally, someone will get
justice. And asked him, what | 0:09:17 | 0:09:22 | |
happened to you? Is this some of the
things that happen to you? You said | 0:09:22 | 0:09:27 | |
yes. It would be over six months to
a year that he would tell us the | 0:09:27 | 0:09:34 | |
extent of what he experienced inside
a jail cell. Which was what? | 0:09:34 | 0:09:38 | |
Brutally beaten by the sheriffs. He
was in the middle of a manic | 0:09:38 | 0:09:43 | |
episode. He was punched, kicked, he
said he remembers a sheriff eating a | 0:09:43 | 0:09:52 | |
panic button and dozens of sheriffs
coming out and stomping him until he | 0:09:52 | 0:10:00 | |
blacked out and when you finally
awoke, he was in a pool of his own | 0:10:00 | 0:10:04 | |
blood. They never took into the
infirmary, to get medical care and | 0:10:04 | 0:10:08 | |
they also had handcuffed him to his
bedpost. And for about the next two | 0:10:08 | 0:10:14 | |
months, they starved him, they
turned off water in his cell, he was | 0:10:14 | 0:10:20 | |
forced to drink from toilet water
and my mother had no idea where he | 0:10:20 | 0:10:25 | |
was. She called up every single day
trying to find her son. She went | 0:10:25 | 0:10:29 | |
there every single weekend trying to
visit her son and for about two | 0:10:29 | 0:10:33 | |
months, the sheriff kept him from
us. It prompted you then to take | 0:10:33 | 0:10:38 | |
action. In fact, you did it through
artwork. You are in your late 20s? I | 0:10:38 | 0:10:43 | |
was about 27 when I first delved
into taking on the sheriff's | 0:10:43 | 0:10:49 | |
department. I did an intimate art
piece betraying state violence and | 0:10:49 | 0:10:56 | |
it was a way to process what I had
read and what my family had | 0:10:56 | 0:11:01 | |
experienced but it was also a way to
amplify the issue. I wanted to bring | 0:11:01 | 0:11:06 | |
this conversation to LA County but
one of my friends came and saw the | 0:11:06 | 0:11:10 | |
performance and said, this isn't
enough. This is a great piece but | 0:11:10 | 0:11:13 | |
you've got to do more. This is
happening right now. And I did. I | 0:11:13 | 0:11:20 | |
would start the first organisation
that centred people most directly | 0:11:20 | 0:11:23 | |
impacted by jail violence. And that
was an essential first campaign | 0:11:23 | 0:11:28 | |
because it resulted in civilian
oversight. Exactly. But that | 0:11:28 | 0:11:32 | |
happened after Black Lives Matter.
There are many more black men in | 0:11:32 | 0:11:40 | |
prison then you would expect from
the prison population. 14% of black | 0:11:40 | 0:11:46 | |
men in the United States, 38% in the
prison population. Why do you think | 0:11:46 | 0:11:52 | |
that is? It's because we spent the
last 40 years creating laws that | 0:11:52 | 0:11:59 | |
criminalise poverty. That
criminalise some of the most | 0:11:59 | 0:12:02 | |
marginalised people. And so what
happens is, you have someone who is | 0:12:02 | 0:12:09 | |
going to school, going to high
school and instead of having | 0:12:09 | 0:12:13 | |
counsellors, they have police
officers on the campus so what might | 0:12:13 | 0:12:16 | |
be something that got you sent to
the principles of this 30 years ago | 0:12:16 | 0:12:20 | |
is now something that will get you a
misdemeanour or a felony. What we | 0:12:20 | 0:12:25 | |
have is a community of people who
are struggling to raise their | 0:12:25 | 0:12:30 | |
children, feed their children, give
their children shelter and so might | 0:12:30 | 0:12:35 | |
try to steal food and instead of
dealing with the issue of poverty, | 0:12:35 | 0:12:40 | |
we have people criminalising
poverty. But poverty affects whites | 0:12:40 | 0:12:46 | |
just as much as blacks. Yes, and
racism becomes the key factor. Race | 0:12:46 | 0:12:56 | |
and the history of race inside the
US becomes very important for us to | 0:12:56 | 0:13:01 | |
delve into. But where it is at play?
Are you saying that more black | 0:13:01 | 0:13:06 | |
people are poor because of racism?
Yes, and also say in more black | 0:13:06 | 0:13:11 | |
people I could analyse because of
racism. But there are some | 0:13:11 | 0:13:15 | |
interesting statistics highlighted
by the African-American S East Debra | 0:13:15 | 0:13:21 | |
Dickerson saying the race of
criminals reported by crime victims | 0:13:21 | 0:13:26 | |
matches the arrest data which
suggests the police are not over | 0:13:26 | 0:13:30 | |
arresting black people more than
white people. I think that's an | 0:13:30 | 0:13:34 | |
interesting statistic. What we have
to look at is, we the police and up, | 0:13:34 | 0:13:39 | |
which communities? I mentioned
earlier, I am in a community where | 0:13:39 | 0:13:46 | |
over policing is happening. We have
police from morning until sundown. | 0:13:46 | 0:13:53 | |
And families and communities are
being criminalised by police but | 0:13:53 | 0:13:56 | |
then you go to Sherman Oaks which is
a neighbourhood over, the same | 0:13:56 | 0:14:00 | |
things could be happening and yet
those communities aren't | 0:14:00 | 0:14:03 | |
criminalised. | 0:14:03 | 0:14:07 | |
Is a powerful statistic that when
someone is reporting a crime, they | 0:14:07 | 0:14:13 | |
say they are black, they say they
are white. The ratio is the same as | 0:14:13 | 0:14:17 | |
the rates -- arrests. When it comes
to actual arrests made, if that | 0:14:17 | 0:14:25 | |
matches those who are reporting
crime... The question then becomes | 0:14:25 | 0:14:31 | |
about conviction. Did the people who
get arrested, who ends up getting | 0:14:31 | 0:14:38 | |
convicted? That is where that
statistic lacks. Who is convicted of | 0:14:38 | 0:14:42 | |
the crimes they say they committed
and what we note time and time again | 0:14:42 | 0:14:50 | |
is that black folks are over
convicted even of crimes they might | 0:14:50 | 0:14:53 | |
have never done. Crimes they may
have done but instead of getting a | 0:14:53 | 0:14:58 | |
misdemeanour, and in or getting to
go home, they are convicted. OK. So, | 0:14:58 | 0:15:03 | |
the suggestion is that in a way, it
is all through the system even if | 0:15:03 | 0:15:08 | |
you can't prove it. So the criminal
justice system itself is racist. | 0:15:08 | 0:15:12 | |
Definitely. Definitely. And this is
something that we don't need | 0:15:12 | 0:15:20 | |
statistics for. I mean, statistics
are important that there is a | 0:15:20 | 0:15:24 | |
history of racism by the criminal
justice system. Let's think about | 0:15:24 | 0:15:28 | |
how many young black folks, how many
black folks who had mob violence, | 0:15:28 | 0:15:37 | |
easing cause to identify black
people and put them in jail or | 0:15:37 | 0:15:40 | |
prison, digging them inflated
sentences, giving them enhancements. | 0:15:40 | 0:15:43 | |
There is a history of this in the
US. -- giving them inflated centred | 0:15:43 | 0:15:48 | |
us. There is a difficulty. It has
been highlighted by campaigns like | 0:15:48 | 0:15:59 | |
Black Lives Matter. One of the
consequences is you have policed who | 0:15:59 | 0:16:04 | |
are afraid to go into black
communities. 78% of police say they | 0:16:04 | 0:16:10 | |
are less willing to stop-and-search.
The difficulty of that is that it's | 0:16:10 | 0:16:15 | |
the black community, the law-abiding
members, who will suffer from that. | 0:16:15 | 0:16:20 | |
Young, and I think we have to look
at why harm and violence are | 0:16:20 | 0:16:24 | |
happening in communities in the
first place. -- yeah. When we | 0:16:24 | 0:16:29 | |
neglect looking at the root issues,
you get a country or a state or a | 0:16:29 | 0:16:34 | |
city that uses police at the mental
health providers. They use police as | 0:16:34 | 0:16:38 | |
social workers, they use police as
domestic violence workers and that | 0:16:38 | 0:16:42 | |
is not what they are. The police are
the police. So the police are not | 0:16:42 | 0:16:46 | |
the solution to that problem.
Precisely. What I wonder if your | 0:16:46 | 0:16:51 | |
relationship with the police. The
police are at war with us. If that | 0:16:51 | 0:16:59 | |
had you feel? Of course was up I
felt that way as a child. The first | 0:16:59 | 0:17:04 | |
police experience I had was when
they raided my home as a | 0:17:04 | 0:17:07 | |
four-year-old. And they didn't look
at me my sister my siblings or ask | 0:17:07 | 0:17:12 | |
us how we were doing. They our home,
they brought in multiple police | 0:17:12 | 0:17:18 | |
officers, they scared my mother and
my family. And so there has never | 0:17:18 | 0:17:23 | |
been a moment in which black folks
have had a healthy relationship with | 0:17:23 | 0:17:30 | |
law enforcement. OK, so how do you
get that? Presumably, that's the | 0:17:30 | 0:17:37 | |
game. I think the aim is creating an
environment where people feel safe. | 0:17:37 | 0:17:41 | |
And safety isn't always a badge and
a gun. We have an idea of safety | 0:17:41 | 0:17:47 | |
that has largely been created by
policing but safety is people being | 0:17:47 | 0:17:53 | |
able to each... -- eat. But
listening to you, you don't have | 0:17:53 | 0:18:02 | |
solution... Police have a role in
society. Sellar tried to get to | 0:18:02 | 0:18:09 | |
another point. When communities
don't have jobs, they don't have | 0:18:09 | 0:18:13 | |
access to healthy food, they don't
have access to public education, | 0:18:13 | 0:18:18 | |
harm happens and we need to talk
about that and we have spent too | 0:18:18 | 0:18:22 | |
much time talking about fixing the
police and not enough time talking | 0:18:22 | 0:18:25 | |
about how do we ensure black
employment rates go up. How do we | 0:18:25 | 0:18:31 | |
ensure black folks are able to stay
in their homes and fight | 0:18:31 | 0:18:34 | |
gentrification. These are the
conversation that need to be | 0:18:34 | 0:18:38 | |
happening. -- conversations. I hear
someone in the black community sang, | 0:18:38 | 0:18:44 | |
hang on a second, I was mugged and
we need someone to deal with that. | 0:18:44 | 0:18:48 | |
I'm not saying don't. I'm saying we
only talk about the police will stop | 0:18:48 | 0:18:52 | |
that becomes the focus. Do you
recognise that you need, in a way, | 0:18:52 | 0:18:57 | |
are you at war with the police?
Definitely not. Definitely not. In | 0:18:57 | 0:19:03 | |
fact, if you grew up in a black
neighbourhood, you try to avoid | 0:19:03 | 0:19:07 | |
police. What you are often told is
the police are behind us, don't look | 0:19:07 | 0:19:11 | |
back, you don't want to cause any
attention. You don't want it to seem | 0:19:11 | 0:19:17 | |
like you are doing anything wrong.
We are attracting attention from the | 0:19:17 | 0:19:20 | |
police. Also, you know, I come from
the tradition of abolition. I want | 0:19:20 | 0:19:30 | |
to be honest. Eventually, I don't
want to seek the police being the | 0:19:30 | 0:19:34 | |
ways in which our community deals
with harm and violence. I think we | 0:19:34 | 0:19:38 | |
need to think outside the box. This
becomes our moment where it is about | 0:19:38 | 0:19:42 | |
philosophy and we have to talk about
how that philosophy meshes with | 0:19:42 | 0:19:45 | |
practice. In a way, here you are
representing Black Lives Matter | 0:19:45 | 0:19:52 | |
which you found it and the answers,
the policies put forward on policing | 0:19:52 | 0:20:00 | |
are the same whether it's in the
black community or the white | 0:20:00 | 0:20:03 | |
community, it's not like the black
community wants something different | 0:20:03 | 0:20:06 | |
from the approach to drugs, for
example. Do know about that I don't | 0:20:06 | 0:20:11 | |
think we have heard enough from
black folks to give a concrete | 0:20:11 | 0:20:15 | |
cancer. What we do know is that
people want to make sure that in | 0:20:15 | 0:20:19 | |
their life, they don't want to have
to train their child to keep | 0:20:19 | 0:20:23 | |
themselves safe from the police. --A
concrete answer. When my mother sits | 0:20:23 | 0:20:32 | |
me down and says, when you come
across in the police, be careful, | 0:20:32 | 0:20:36 | |
you might get killed. That doesn't
happen in white communities. What do | 0:20:36 | 0:20:40 | |
you feel like when you come across a
policeman now? Scared. Still scared. | 0:20:40 | 0:20:46 | |
I have a somatic response to
law-enforcement. I am respectful, I | 0:20:46 | 0:20:54 | |
sometimes have officers who do
security for me at events so I am | 0:20:54 | 0:20:57 | |
grateful. And for me, it's not about
individual law enforcement, it's | 0:20:57 | 0:21:02 | |
about the system of policing and
that, to me, isn't so important. I | 0:21:02 | 0:21:06 | |
have policed better in my family.
But it is the system of law | 0:21:06 | 0:21:11 | |
enforcement that we have to look at.
You are talking about really | 0:21:11 | 0:21:14 | |
changing the whole of society. I am.
And you think that Black Lives | 0:21:14 | 0:21:20 | |
Matter have a role in that. Sellar
think we have, yes. Some people say, | 0:21:20 | 0:21:26 | |
look, for a while it was temporarily
a fashion on social media. What | 0:21:26 | 0:21:31 | |
makes it last? It is just a
movement, isn't it? And yes, it's | 0:21:31 | 0:21:36 | |
taken off but it's also been
eclipsed by the latest social media | 0:21:36 | 0:21:45 | |
movements like me too and time is up
Mac. -- Time's Up. What makes it | 0:21:45 | 0:21:56 | |
last? Most of us are invested in
building it further than what it was | 0:21:56 | 0:22:03 | |
on social media. We have 40 chapters
across the world, across the US and | 0:22:03 | 0:22:08 | |
Canada and here in the United
Kingdom. With what aim? Militant | 0:22:08 | 0:22:14 | |
action? Sometimes, sometimes as
direct action, sometimes of civil | 0:22:14 | 0:22:18 | |
desert that -- is disobedience, it
is similar to what Act Up did around | 0:22:18 | 0:22:28 | |
giving folks medicine when they were
dying of AIDS. We are having a | 0:22:28 | 0:22:33 | |
conversation because black people
are dying at the hands of the state | 0:22:33 | 0:22:36 | |
and oftentimes, nobody is caring.
Indirect and direct action... So | 0:22:36 | 0:22:40 | |
it's about protesting, what,
locally? That is our aim and mission | 0:22:40 | 0:22:48 | |
but also, when they come to the
United Kingdom or Canada, it is also | 0:22:48 | 0:22:52 | |
to build relationships with folks
that are using Black Lives Matter, | 0:22:52 | 0:22:55 | |
that a part of our network. But you
are a protest movement, you are not | 0:22:55 | 0:23:04 | |
going to endorse or promote
candidates? We might. We are looking | 0:23:04 | 0:23:08 | |
at what it might look like to run
for office. We are in an exploratory | 0:23:08 | 0:23:14 | |
phase. Under a Black Lives Matter
and? Yes. You are seeing this very | 0:23:14 | 0:23:23 | |
confidently. Would you? I have been
approached to run for office. Some | 0:23:23 | 0:23:29 | |
folks are talking about state, some
local, just approached, I haven't | 0:23:29 | 0:23:36 | |
said yes but it is a conversation
and we have seen this in bed | 0:23:36 | 0:23:40 | |
trajectory of many protest
movements. -- into trajectory. That | 0:23:40 | 0:23:47 | |
is something that we... We have
never been against it but that is | 0:23:47 | 0:23:51 | |
not something that we thought of as
the first place to go to. Is that | 0:23:51 | 0:23:58 | |
the aim to have three black senators
in the Senate? It is to grow a | 0:23:58 | 0:24:03 | |
movement that can change the
material conditions the black | 0:24:03 | 0:24:06 | |
people. But I wonder if that is the
way to do it? To go right to the top | 0:24:06 | 0:24:11 | |
of the political tree. Sometimes
it's both. What I don't want to say | 0:24:11 | 0:24:16 | |
is we need to abandon protest. What
some of the best movements are able | 0:24:16 | 0:24:21 | |
to continue to protest and continue
to fight and Hrovat movement while | 0:24:21 | 0:24:25 | |
they have someone in office and who
are elected officials. When They | 0:24:25 | 0:24:28 | |
Call You a -- Patrisse Khan-Cullors,
thank you for coming on HARDtalk. | 0:24:28 | 0:24:37 |