Browse content similar to 07/01/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good morning and welcome to BBC Parliament's live coverage of the | :00:08. | :00:14. | |
Commons. The Lords are in recess but the MPs are here and in an hour's | :00:15. | :00:19. | |
time, Leader of the Commons Chris Grayling, will set out the timetable | :00:20. | :00:22. | |
for what will becoming up in Parliament in the next couple of | :00:23. | :00:26. | |
weeks and take questions from MPs. Two debates after that chosen by | :00:27. | :00:31. | |
backbenchers, the first on the effect on women of the equalisation | :00:32. | :00:35. | |
of the state pension age. The second is on children in care. The date | :00:36. | :00:41. | |
ends with a debate on primary school admission criteria. Join me for a | :00:42. | :00:46. | |
round-up of the day at Westminster at 11pm tonight. First, questions to | :00:47. | :00:51. | |
the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change, Amber Rudd, and | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
her ministerial team. First question today from, making, concerning the | :00:56. | :01:00. | |
EU's renewable heat targets. Questions to the Secretary of State | :01:01. | :01:14. | |
for Energy and Climate Change. Question number two, Mr Speaker. A | :01:15. | :01:22. | |
reformed domestic supply obligation from 2017 which will run for five | :01:23. | :01:27. | |
years will upgrade the energy efficiency of over 200,000 homes per | :01:28. | :01:32. | |
year, tackling the root cause of fuel poverty. The extension to the | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
warm homes discount in 2021, at current levels of ?300 million per | :01:37. | :01:41. | |
annum, would also help vulnerable households with energy bills. We | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
intend to focus the efforts through eco-and the warm home discount more | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
effectively and we will be consulting on the future approach in | :01:51. | :01:55. | |
the spring. I thank the Minister for her answer. Fuel poverty is a sign | :01:56. | :02:02. | |
of inequality. New research by the National charity has found that one | :02:03. | :02:08. | |
in two low-income households are struggling to afford energy costs | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
despite being in work. Many households rely on in work social | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
assistance. Can I ask the Secretary of State if she or her Cabinet | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
colleagues have made an assessment of the effect of welfare reform on | :02:21. | :02:24. | |
low-income households judged to be in fuel poverty? We do in fact, in | :02:25. | :02:31. | |
my department, work closely with the Department for Work and Pensions to | :02:32. | :02:36. | |
ensure the support we give goes to the most honourable. Energy costs | :02:37. | :02:42. | |
are always at the centre of our minds in this government. -- most | :02:43. | :02:50. | |
vulnerable. When Hastings, Motherwell and the rest of the | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
United Kingdom votes to leave the European Union in the referendum, we | :02:56. | :03:00. | |
hope to abolish the 5% VAT on domestic fuel bills, which will | :03:01. | :03:04. | |
really help those suffering from fuel poverty. Is that something you | :03:05. | :03:10. | |
would welcome? The honourable gentleman will be aware that this | :03:11. | :03:13. | |
government is focused always on making sure that the bills are kept | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
down for householders in all constituencies. I would tactfully | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
suggest that the Chancellor might have something to say about reducing | :03:23. | :03:30. | |
VAT income on such a service. Evidence has suggested that | :03:31. | :03:32. | |
disproportionately raw raw communities are affected or | :03:33. | :03:36. | |
adversely by fuel poverty. One way of combating this is with the | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
development of domestic energy syndicates, collective purchasing, | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
if you will. What proactively should be department can do and should be | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
doing to support such initiatives? The honourable gentleman is right | :03:50. | :03:55. | |
and we are ensuring there is a focus on oral areas which often have the | :03:56. | :03:59. | |
largest problem with fuel poverty. My partner works closely with | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
various community energy schemes to make sure we assist them and we will | :04:04. | :04:12. | |
continue to do so. David" top cat" Davies. LAUGHTER | :04:13. | :04:20. | |
Fine by me, Mr Speaker. Would the honourable lady agree with me that | :04:21. | :04:26. | |
renewable energies are two to three times more expensive than fossil | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
fuels, and therefore the more renewables we use, the more fuel | :04:32. | :04:37. | |
poverty we will create. The question should be intelligible to people | :04:38. | :04:40. | |
beyond it. The explanation is that the middle initials are TC. My | :04:41. | :04:48. | |
apologies. I don't share that view, I think energy supplies should be a | :04:49. | :04:55. | |
mix and that means a combination of fossil fuels and renewable energy, | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
and investing in renewable energy is an essential part of energy security | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
as well as reducing carbon emissions and meeting targets. | :05:04. | :05:12. | |
With permission, I will answer this question, question 18 together. We | :05:13. | :05:20. | |
are currently considering the indications of the Paris outcome | :05:21. | :05:23. | |
domestically and with EU partners. The 2015 target of at least 80% | :05:24. | :05:30. | |
reduction from the 1990 baseline is already in statute and we are set on | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
meeting it. We look forward to meeting the carbon targets later | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
this year. The floods over the last few weeks are a reminder of the | :05:41. | :05:43. | |
effects of climate change. As we have known for a while, these | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
extreme weather events are here to stay. Given the government claims | :05:48. | :05:53. | |
for the UK ambition at the Paris climate change talks, why were they | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
at the same time undermining policies? I don't accept we are | :06:00. | :06:04. | |
undermining those policies. What we are trying to do is get the right | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
balance to support policies, support renewable energy, but also look | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
after the bill payer and make sure not too much is added to their | :06:14. | :06:16. | |
bills. I would remind the honourable lady that the UK is responsible for | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
1% of the world's emissions. The success of Paris is that we deal | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
with nearly 100% of the world's emissions, and that is where we will | :06:27. | :06:32. | |
see the real difference in change. I hope the Secretary of State will | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
agree that delivering the Paris climate agreement requires a cross | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
departmental approach. If that is the case, can she explain why there | :06:41. | :06:44. | |
appears to be no mention of climate change in the remit of the national | :06:45. | :06:48. | |
infrastructure commission. Can she urged colleagues to remedy that, and | :06:49. | :06:54. | |
can she say the rapid need for deep carbonisation will be a | :06:55. | :06:55. | |
non-negotiable criteria for every single one of its projects. I thank | :06:56. | :07:01. | |
the honourable lady for bringing up the national infrastructure | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
commission. I had a preliminary meeting with the head of it, and we | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
will shortly consult on which projects to prioritise. I can say | :07:11. | :07:13. | |
the projects they have already said they will look at in our sector, | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
which is interconnected as, systems operations, will be important for | :07:18. | :07:25. | |
delivering on the less carbon future, and it will play an | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
important role in getting cross-party consensus on getting the | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
investment we need going forward. The secretary of state will be aware | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
that the legally binding UK commitment is about 30 or 40% faster | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
than that signed up by the EU in Paris. Some countries like Austria | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
have increased emissions by about 20% since 1990. What discussions | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
that she planned to have with her colleagues in Europe regarding | :07:55. | :07:56. | |
getting their process up to the same level as the UK? You raise an | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
interesting point. The fact is that the UK is leading in this area. Not | :08:03. | :08:08. | |
only in terms of the commitment to the Climate Change Act, but also the | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
structure of the commitment of fewer carbon emissions. The transparency | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
of the regime and the five-year review. I will talk to colleagues in | :08:18. | :08:20. | |
Europe to make sure they also step up and participate in the important | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
sharing decisions taking place this year. The Secretary of State's words | :08:26. | :08:31. | |
are one thing, but credibility with the public is another. My | :08:32. | :08:37. | |
constituents are worried about jobs and renewables and our real | :08:38. | :08:40. | |
commitment as a country to the deal we made in Paris. Will the Secretary | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
of State be absolutely clear, is she going to do any more to protect | :08:46. | :08:49. | |
worked in the renewables sector that affects my constituents? I know the | :08:50. | :08:54. | |
honourable lady will be concerned about offshore wind, so close to her | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
constituency. I hope she will share with me and welcome that Dong energy | :08:59. | :09:10. | |
wants to invest ?6 million by 2020, which will be important for offshore | :09:11. | :09:14. | |
element. Having signed up to the Paris agreement and with the UK | :09:15. | :09:21. | |
agreements on this basis, we will see more investment and her | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
constituents will benefit as well. Can I ask the Secretary of State, if | :09:26. | :09:29. | |
Paris happened one year ago, would you still make the same | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
announcements you have made in the last six months, adversely affecting | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
onshore wind and solar, impacting badly on jobs and investor | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
confidence. I don't accept the honourable member's interpretation | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
of the announcements I have made. Those announcements have set out a | :09:47. | :09:49. | |
clear path in getting a balance between making sure we continue to | :09:50. | :09:52. | |
support renewable energy and getting the investment we need and also | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
looking after people's bills. Paris was a triumph, let's recognise the | :09:58. | :10:01. | |
fact it starts to bring other countries up to the high standards | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
that the UK has placed on it and we encourage further investment. The | :10:06. | :10:17. | |
decision to pull ?1 billion. The Prime Minister said we have to make | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
decisions about technology that works and technology not working. | :10:22. | :10:24. | |
How was that assessment made given the competition had not yet been | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
completed? We don't rule out carbon capture and storage in the future. | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
This government made substantial investments through the entrepreneur | :10:35. | :10:40. | |
fund through early starts. We have industrialised carbon capture and | :10:41. | :10:43. | |
storage operating and testing in Teesside. The decision was made not | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
to have a ?1 billion investment, and it was a difficult decision made in | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
a difficult spending round, but we recognised carbon capture and | :10:52. | :10:54. | |
storage will have an important future in a low-carbon economy. The | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
Prime Minister said it wasn't working, but the Secretary of State | :10:59. | :11:01. | |
says it will work. One of them is clearly wrong, Mr Speaker. In his | :11:02. | :11:08. | |
list of technology that was working, the Prime Minister included | :11:09. | :11:10. | |
small-scale nuclear reactors. Can I ask the Secretary of State where | :11:11. | :11:14. | |
this technology is working, and whether it is working as the Prime | :11:15. | :11:19. | |
Minister would claim, why does it require ?250 million of taxpayer | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
money? I can bring together some of the questions by highlighting the | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
investment we are making in innovation. Innovation is an area | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
where is we think we can see great steps forward in renewable energy | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
and technology that will help to develop important new technologies | :11:37. | :11:41. | |
to renewable energy. For instance, at Paris different countries came | :11:42. | :11:44. | |
together to double investment in this area and I believe carbon | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
capture and storage and small modular reactors will benefit from | :11:49. | :11:49. | |
that investment going forward. This has told us further away, now | :11:50. | :12:06. | |
we are on falls short of it by some 10% or 187 million tonnes, it is | :12:07. | :12:12. | |
also predicted we will miss out 2020 renewal target. Could she explained | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
precisely what steps you will be taking in the remainder of this | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
Parliament to make good on the Prime Minister's. The UK is leading the | :12:22. | :12:29. | |
way in order to cut emissions? I don't accept his depressing | :12:30. | :12:35. | |
interpretation of our progress towards our targets. Our green new | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
Bulls targets are difficult to make, but I can point out we have exceeded | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
the interim target. We know we need to make more progress to do so, | :12:46. | :12:52. | |
which is why I working across departments to make sure actions | :12:53. | :12:55. | |
taken on heat and transport. In terms of the fourth carbon budget, | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
it was recognised in 2011 that there was a problem with it and it is | :13:01. | :13:03. | |
about making sure now that we put in place policies necessary to meet it. | :13:04. | :13:08. | |
But being no doubt, we remain committed to doing that. The | :13:09. | :13:17. | |
honourable member will be aware that the cost of UK reaction to reduce | :13:18. | :13:24. | |
emissions is already committed. The Paris agreement will help ensure | :13:25. | :13:27. | |
that all countries acting, helping to make sure climate change | :13:28. | :13:36. | |
effectively addressed. Greater opportunities for UK business in low | :13:37. | :13:43. | |
carbon transformation. Thank you for the answer, but would she accept | :13:44. | :13:47. | |
that the estimates suggesting the UK is on track predate the cuts to the | :13:48. | :13:53. | |
budget under allergic date: meaning that meeting the 2 degrees target | :13:54. | :13:57. | |
would require further support from the government, particularly for low | :13:58. | :14:05. | |
carbon generation. I do accept that this government needs to put in | :14:06. | :14:09. | |
place more policies in order to make sure we beat our carbon budgets, | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
which we have just been referring to. I would also point out how it | :14:15. | :14:20. | |
the Palace climate change agreement is not as ambitious as the ambition | :14:21. | :14:24. | |
that we already have in place through the climate change act, | :14:25. | :14:27. | |
which is legally binding and is delivered through our carbon | :14:28. | :14:33. | |
budgets. She rightly says the Palace climate agreement is not as | :14:34. | :14:36. | |
ambitious as the climate change bill we have. National action plans and | :14:37. | :14:43. | |
Palace commit the world's 22.7 degrees of warming. Bush outlined | :14:44. | :14:49. | |
what or conversation she has had with her counterparts in Europe | :14:50. | :14:57. | |
before the next uptake in 2018? She raises a very important point, the | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
current proposals only achieve a reduction of 2.7 degrees and we | :15:03. | :15:05. | |
would be ambitious to make sure we reached not only to degrees but | :15:06. | :15:09. | |
would like to see it go further. There will be conversations this | :15:10. | :15:13. | |
year to make sure we meet their EU renewables targets. We have | :15:14. | :15:19. | |
discussions ahead of us, but the triumph of the Paris agreement is | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
that it is not just the UK, but the whole of the world, where the | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
largest emitters like China and India, are also participating. | :15:29. | :15:37. | |
Number seven. With permission, Alain answer this question with number 13. | :15:38. | :15:43. | |
My honourable friends will be aware that the agreement reached in Paris | :15:44. | :15:47. | |
in December was a historic step forward. Almost 200 countries | :15:48. | :15:55. | |
committed to climate action, there will now be follow-up work in the UN | :15:56. | :15:58. | |
to agree the detailed rules and prepare for the five-year reviews. | :15:59. | :16:04. | |
Does she agree that the deal agreed in Paris actually sees the world is | :16:05. | :16:08. | |
signing up for the approach adopted by the UK in tackling climate change | :16:09. | :16:14. | |
is in marked and she confident her approach means we will meet the | :16:15. | :16:20. | |
goals agreed in Paris? He's absolutely right. The UK can take | :16:21. | :16:24. | |
pride in the structure that was put together in Paris, because it mimics | :16:25. | :16:27. | |
in some way the climate change act we have put in place so many years | :16:28. | :16:31. | |
ago. The five-year review, the transparency, we need to combat all | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
the time with an improved offer, it's absolutely the right way to go | :16:37. | :16:39. | |
and I'm confident we'll be able to deliver on that. I'm excited about | :16:40. | :16:44. | |
talking further to my international partners to make sure we have the | :16:45. | :16:49. | |
right system to deliver it. Does she agree that making sure all countries | :16:50. | :16:56. | |
who have signed up to the agreement submit regular and full updates and | :16:57. | :16:59. | |
that data on progress is crucial, so we can see which countries are | :17:00. | :17:05. | |
actually sticking to the agreement? He raises a very important point. | :17:06. | :17:12. | |
Transparency in these reviews is absolutely essential and it is | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
something that the UK for very hard for during the Paris negotiations, | :17:17. | :17:20. | |
to make sure that when other countries come back with their | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
five-year reviews, they have actually made it clear, so we can be | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
certain that carbon emissions are being reduced. New figures from this | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
department show that renewables are the biggest source of carbon | :17:34. | :17:46. | |
reduction. Will she sure her department's own commitment to this | :17:47. | :17:49. | |
vital sector by now accepting the case for the inclusion of projects | :17:50. | :17:55. | |
in the period of renewables obligation, which have attracted | :17:56. | :17:58. | |
significant investment and achieved all the technical requirements to | :17:59. | :18:06. | |
meet the cut-off date of June 2015, including the farm in my | :18:07. | :18:16. | |
constituency. The renewable industry, offshore wind and onshore | :18:17. | :18:22. | |
is wind are great success story. It is a great opportunity for export | :18:23. | :18:26. | |
for business and am happy to say a number of ministers spoke to me | :18:27. | :18:29. | |
about this in Paris and I think there will be great opportunities. | :18:30. | :18:35. | |
As regards individual wind Farms, I must ask her to write me separately, | :18:36. | :18:40. | |
so a look at those. But I remind her that on the side of the house we are | :18:41. | :18:46. | |
committed to making sure we deliver on our carbon targets while keeping | :18:47. | :18:57. | |
the bills down. Number eight. Firstly, I'm delighted to see him | :18:58. | :19:00. | |
fully recovered and back in his place. We support AD and wind, with | :19:01. | :19:20. | |
full support from the government. These technologies can make a | :19:21. | :19:25. | |
valuable contribution to our decarbonisation targets and we will | :19:26. | :19:30. | |
continue to support them. Thank you. I recently met with residents at my | :19:31. | :19:43. | |
surgery to discuss AD and biogas. Does she agree with me that compared | :19:44. | :19:50. | |
to wind solo, biogas has anything since delivering consistent and | :19:51. | :19:52. | |
reliable amounts of energy into the network? I do absolutely agree, | :19:53. | :19:59. | |
there are real benefits for the UK in having a wide range of renewable | :20:00. | :20:04. | |
energy sources, but he's quite right to point out that as the sector | :20:05. | :20:07. | |
develops in the UK, biogas technologies could bring additional | :20:08. | :20:14. | |
benefits, Inc including injecting into the gas grid and transporting. | :20:15. | :20:24. | |
In her letter to other departments on the 29th of October, the | :20:25. | :20:28. | |
Secretary of State, who I congratulate on her letter of | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
stressing the importance of reaching renewable targets to recover to | :20:34. | :20:37. | |
departments, she indicated that the highest potential for additional | :20:38. | :20:42. | |
renewable heat is from bio methane injection into the grid, but you'll | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
is said we would face a shortfall against part of that target related | :20:47. | :20:50. | |
to the heat sector, even if support for her agreed measures was agreed | :20:51. | :21:01. | |
in the spending review. Now that she does have the reduced amount of | :21:02. | :21:05. | |
money for the renewables up to 2020, does she consider that amount is | :21:06. | :21:11. | |
going to enable us to reach our heat targets by 2020? And if not, what | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
new proposals will she be bringing forward to make sure that this | :21:17. | :21:20. | |
investment in the sector that can enable us to reach that target? He | :21:21. | :21:27. | |
is right to point out that we had a good settlement in the comprehensive | :21:28. | :21:32. | |
spending review. We were very pleased with the commitment in this | :21:33. | :21:37. | |
pension review to enhancing increasing renewable heat | :21:38. | :21:41. | |
insensitive, and we're making good progress towards that. He will | :21:42. | :21:46. | |
realise the fourth carbon budget is for a 23 to 27 and he wouldn't | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
expect us to meet it today. Putting plans in place and working towards | :21:52. | :21:56. | |
that progress as we speak, and we'll be continuing to set out plans | :21:57. | :22:01. | |
choosing this year. Despite more effective use of packaging, better | :22:02. | :22:05. | |
date labelling and programmes by supermarkets to distribute unsold | :22:06. | :22:09. | |
food, we still generate substantial quantities of food waste. Does she | :22:10. | :22:13. | |
agree that using this resource to generate electricity is better than | :22:14. | :22:18. | |
sending it to landfill? I completely agree with them, and recently, I | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
went to see a proposed new project in my own county of | :22:23. | :22:25. | |
Northamptonshire, which is looking to use landfill to create a | :22:26. | :22:30. | |
renewable heat scheme. There are contrasting the ideas coming | :22:31. | :22:33. | |
forward, and I admire officials was very keen to hear about them and | :22:34. | :22:37. | |
support them where we can. Number nine, please. And I commend my | :22:38. | :22:45. | |
honourable friend for the first not commitment he has shown to | :22:46. | :22:47. | |
researching best practice in this area. The government is committed to | :22:48. | :22:53. | |
protecting our most valuable spaces from server strolling of wells for | :22:54. | :22:58. | |
fracking. On the 4th of November, we set out how we plan to do this and | :22:59. | :23:05. | |
will issue a response to our industry consultation closed on | :23:06. | :23:11. | |
December 16 as soon as possible. I very much welcome the minister's | :23:12. | :23:15. | |
comments. The task force Rush Elgar first called for a single regulator | :23:16. | :23:20. | |
and increased levels of individual monitoring. But the ministers agree | :23:21. | :23:25. | |
this would improve public confidence and provide further protection, | :23:26. | :23:27. | |
particularly for a more sensitive areas? The task force is 2015 report | :23:28. | :23:35. | |
says that the regulatory regime is currently fit for purpose, but my | :23:36. | :23:40. | |
honourable friend rightly points out their proposal that if a shield gas | :23:41. | :23:44. | |
industry does develop, the government should consider creating | :23:45. | :23:48. | |
a bespoke regulator and I can is your him we will keep the regulatory | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
regime under review to make sure it remains fit for purpose. This second | :23:53. | :23:57. | |
point about independent monitoring, I entirely agree with them and that | :23:58. | :24:00. | |
is why we are already grant funding baseline monitoring in | :24:01. | :24:07. | |
Northamptonshire and Lincolnshire. Does the Minister accept that is | :24:08. | :24:11. | |
widespread opposition to fracking in all parts of Britain? Will she | :24:12. | :24:18. | |
congratulate, as I have done, the residents in Bolsover for refusing | :24:19. | :24:22. | |
to allow drilling operation and getting it stopped, not all made by | :24:23. | :24:28. | |
the local authority, but by her own inspectorates? I think it's quite | :24:29. | :24:37. | |
extraordinary at honourable members opposite continually talk about the | :24:38. | :24:42. | |
potential for shale is as if it is some kind of disaster. The | :24:43. | :24:46. | |
honourable gentleman himself comes amid very honourable and | :24:47. | :24:52. | |
long-standing mining area. Mining has a legacy that we will be dealing | :24:53. | :24:58. | |
with for many years to come. The shale industry offers the | :24:59. | :25:03. | |
opportunity to really create a new home-grown energy source that is | :25:04. | :25:09. | |
vital for our energy security into the next decade. When will the | :25:10. | :25:18. | |
Secretary of State produce some legally enforceable protection | :25:19. | :25:20. | |
against service level fracking in our national parks and areas of | :25:21. | :25:28. | |
interest? Hopefully, she will have heard my initial comments, which is | :25:29. | :25:35. | |
that we have been able to put forward a proposal to restrict | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
surface gelling in any of our most protected areas, not limited to | :25:40. | :25:42. | |
national parks, but including many other valuable spaces, through the | :25:43. | :25:48. | |
licensing, and as things stand, we are waiting for our report and | :25:49. | :25:51. | |
response of the industry consultation that closed on December | :25:52. | :25:55. | |
16, and we will be announcements very soon. Question number ten. As | :25:56. | :26:04. | |
more domestic community and business generators come on stream, the | :26:05. | :26:11. | |
demand for a grid connection is increasing. Accommodating this is | :26:12. | :26:16. | |
the responsibility of the network companies, overseen by Jen. Network | :26:17. | :26:20. | |
companies publish long-term plans to see how a generation will be | :26:21. | :26:27. | |
managed. She might want to look at the ten year statement as a good | :26:28. | :26:34. | |
example of this. Let's face it, the National Grid is notorious for | :26:35. | :26:38. | |
stifling new energy projects. Given that the tough bill involves | :26:39. | :26:44. | |
devolving stations up to 350 megawatts, but not transmission, how | :26:45. | :26:47. | |
will the Minister work with the Welsh government to make sure this | :26:48. | :26:48. | |
isn't a empty promise. about 1.7 billion of this is for the | :26:49. | :27:17. | |
distribution company that is responsible for North Wales that | :27:18. | :27:19. | |
includes the Lady's own constituency. Does the Minister | :27:20. | :27:25. | |
share my concern is that in the short to medium turn our energy | :27:26. | :27:32. | |
security might be put at risk if capacity markets put in place to | :27:33. | :27:35. | |
bring forward new gas capacity, not only fails to bring forward new gas | :27:36. | :27:40. | |
capacity, but also works to make current gas capacity, such as | :27:41. | :27:46. | |
provided by the power station in my constituency, to be no longer | :27:47. | :27:49. | |
worthwhile doing, and that comes off stream. I can tell the honourable | :27:50. | :27:56. | |
gentleman we have just completed the second capacity market auction, | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
achieved a very competitive price for consumers, and as you will know, | :28:02. | :28:04. | |
a top row or two for this covenant is to keep the bills down. At the | :28:05. | :28:07. | |
same time we can ensure national Grid has the tools at its disposal | :28:08. | :28:18. | |
to don't share his concerns. We want to bring a new gas, but there are | :28:19. | :28:25. | |
not concerns about renewable energy. Number 11. Solar is an enormous UK | :28:26. | :28:30. | |
success story and one this government continues to support. As | :28:31. | :28:35. | |
my right honourable friend the Prime Minister said yesterday, 98% of all | :28:36. | :28:39. | |
solar deployment has taken place since 2010. We announce the feeder | :28:40. | :28:51. | |
tariff scheme would remain open. We can potentially deliver 1.2 | :28:52. | :28:56. | |
gigawatts across 220,000 installations by 2019. I would like | :28:57. | :29:01. | |
to thank my honourable friend for that answer. I have the opportunity | :29:02. | :29:04. | |
recently of meeting a company in the solar sector industry in my | :29:05. | :29:10. | |
constituency, and was very impressed with the technology innovation and | :29:11. | :29:14. | |
job creation of that company. Would she give me an assurance that the | :29:15. | :29:17. | |
government will do everything possible to continue supporting this | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
important energy source. As my honourable friend will know, it's a | :29:23. | :29:27. | |
key priority to keep consumer bills down, so it's always a balance | :29:28. | :29:31. | |
between supporting what is a superb UK industry with making sure | :29:32. | :29:35. | |
consumer bills remain affordable. We will continue to support the further | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
growth of the sector, but not at any price. So the changes we have made | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
another feeding tariff six to maintain a solar industry which in | :29:45. | :29:47. | |
the medium term can continue to reduce cost and move towards a | :29:48. | :29:52. | |
subsidy free deployment. Could the Minister update the house on what | :29:53. | :29:58. | |
steps she is taking to make sure the rate of VAT on solar installations | :29:59. | :30:02. | |
doesn't arise as potentially proposed from 5% to 20%, so | :30:03. | :30:09. | |
affecting about ?9 on average solar installations. He's exactly right to | :30:10. | :30:14. | |
raise this, an important point. He will know this is a result of | :30:15. | :30:19. | |
proceedings by the European Commission who believe our VAT rates | :30:20. | :30:22. | |
on solar installation should be higher than they are. It's something | :30:23. | :30:28. | |
HMRC are looking at closely and consulting on, and taking into | :30:29. | :30:31. | |
account what the outcome of that consultation is, we will look | :30:32. | :30:34. | |
further at the regime we have in place. Bexhill and Battle | :30:35. | :30:40. | |
constituency has a number of thriving solar businesses, some of | :30:41. | :30:44. | |
which I have worked with over the recent changes for feed in tariffs. | :30:45. | :30:47. | |
As the government looks for the industry to expand, can I ask how | :30:48. | :30:54. | |
the Minister will support the delivery of energy storage solutions | :30:55. | :30:57. | |
for existing and future solar systems. My honourable friend is | :30:58. | :31:03. | |
exactly right to point out the huge potential for energy storage to | :31:04. | :31:07. | |
enhance the value of solar installations. My department has | :31:08. | :31:11. | |
provided more than ?18 million of innovation support since 2012 to | :31:12. | :31:17. | |
support and demonstrate a range of technologies. We also investigating | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
the potential barriers to the deployment of energy storage, | :31:22. | :31:25. | |
focusing in the first instance of removing regulatory barriers and we | :31:26. | :31:28. | |
plan to hold a call for evidence in the spring on specifically this | :31:29. | :31:35. | |
area. Many constituencies fear the end of solar. What about the ?1 | :31:36. | :31:42. | |
rescue scheme, and what is the response to that? As I think my | :31:43. | :31:49. | |
right honourable friend and I have made clear on many occasions, there | :31:50. | :31:54. | |
is a fine balance. As a new technology, as the costs come down, | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
as they have done so with this excellent UK solar industry, so we | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
must focus on the needs of people in this country to be able to afford | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
their energy bills. Fuel poverty is an enormous problem here. What we | :32:09. | :32:13. | |
don't want to do is over subsidise, so it's a fine balance. We think our | :32:14. | :32:18. | |
results in December to the consultation provide that fine | :32:19. | :32:22. | |
balance, giving a 5% investment return to installations on solar. | :32:23. | :32:25. | |
That's fair to consumers and the industry. EU minimum import prices | :32:26. | :32:36. | |
on Chinese, Taiwanese and Malaysians sells inflate the cost of an average | :32:37. | :32:42. | |
solar installation by ?385. The Minister is working to extract the | :32:43. | :32:45. | |
UK from this, but will she update the house on her progress and set a | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
date by which she hopes to end these price controls. I certainly agree | :32:50. | :32:55. | |
with my honourable friend that this is an unwelcome drain on the UK | :32:56. | :33:02. | |
solar industry. I also agree it would be fairer and simpler to | :33:03. | :33:06. | |
remove it while the UK review is under review. It's one for the | :33:07. | :33:14. | |
commission, not member states. The anti-dumping and anti-subsidy | :33:15. | :33:17. | |
regulations require the commission to maintain existing trade defence | :33:18. | :33:20. | |
measures while the expiry review takes place. It could be some months | :33:21. | :33:29. | |
yet. Last year the solar trade Association estimated 27,000 workers | :33:30. | :33:34. | |
would lose their jobs as a result of the government proposed 87% cut to | :33:35. | :33:38. | |
the feed in tariff. Following public outcry, which included both sides of | :33:39. | :33:43. | |
the house, her department reduced the cut to 64%, saving around 8000 | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
jobs. Something I'm sure the Minister would love to take credit | :33:48. | :33:51. | |
for. However, can she say what the message is to the remaining 19,000 | :33:52. | :33:55. | |
solar workers who now face redundancy in the coming year as a | :33:56. | :34:01. | |
result of the tariff cuts? What I can say to the honourable gentleman | :34:02. | :34:05. | |
is that UK solar is a huge success story. It has grown rapidly since | :34:06. | :34:13. | |
2010 with enormous support from energy consumers in the UK. As we | :34:14. | :34:19. | |
have said time and again, there is a balance. We absolutely welcome the | :34:20. | :34:23. | |
jobs and growth that has been provided in the sector, but what we | :34:24. | :34:27. | |
can't do is to continue to support jobs just through bill payer | :34:28. | :34:34. | |
subsidy, it's not fair. What our members can ensure is that there is | :34:35. | :34:38. | |
good potential for the industry to continue to grow and jobs be | :34:39. | :34:42. | |
supported whilst bills remain affordable. Number 12. The | :34:43. | :34:50. | |
government is making it quicker and easier for consumers to switch | :34:51. | :34:53. | |
supplier and moved to the best value tariffs. We have a national | :34:54. | :34:57. | |
switching campaign, worked with the industry to cut the time it takes to | :34:58. | :35:00. | |
switch to 17 days, and are working with Ofgem to move towards reliable | :35:01. | :35:07. | |
next day switching. We also are working to wards and energy | :35:08. | :35:12. | |
switching guarantee to be produced later this year. It's the vulnerable | :35:13. | :35:18. | |
customers where this is particularly important, and they should be able | :35:19. | :35:22. | |
to find the best value tariffs. Would she say more about what the | :35:23. | :35:26. | |
government is doing to spread that message and ensure these consumers | :35:27. | :35:28. | |
are getting the best deals available. Would she agree with me | :35:29. | :35:35. | |
that perhaps organisations such as carers organisations and children's | :35:36. | :35:39. | |
centres that support vulnerable younger families, that they could | :35:40. | :35:44. | |
have a role to play. I do agree with my right honourable friend, it's | :35:45. | :35:48. | |
absolutely essential that we improve access for vulnerable people to the | :35:49. | :35:51. | |
switching that could provide such great benefits. If people can | :35:52. | :35:56. | |
benefit from a ?200 saving on energy bill, it's no good unless they can | :35:57. | :36:03. | |
access it. That's why we have launched the big energy saving | :36:04. | :36:07. | |
network, and are ensuring vulnerable people who particularly need the | :36:08. | :36:09. | |
improvement of the energy bills this can deliver can access it. One of | :36:10. | :36:14. | |
the ways this is done to is through the citizens advice bureau. We will | :36:15. | :36:16. | |
look at other suggestions put forward. It has been identified that | :36:17. | :36:25. | |
the sticky customer base are not being served well by their energy | :36:26. | :36:30. | |
suppliers. Something like 70% of those customers on the standard | :36:31. | :36:33. | |
variable tariff are paying over the odds. As the secretary looked into | :36:34. | :36:37. | |
the suggestion I have made in the last year and before that, that we | :36:38. | :36:41. | |
need to protect those customers as well, with maybe a default or | :36:42. | :36:47. | |
protection tariff to make sure suppliers provide tariffs that are | :36:48. | :36:52. | |
fair to their customers. The Right Honourable Lady raises an important | :36:53. | :36:56. | |
point, and it's helpful to have the suggestion about the competition and | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
market authority who have just begun to include in their consideration | :37:01. | :37:04. | |
the issue of vulnerable customers on prepayment meters. We are interested | :37:05. | :37:06. | |
in the recommendations they will make over the next few months, we | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
hope, to make sure we look after vulnerable customers who are not | :37:12. | :37:15. | |
able to switch. We have said before that we will take seriously and act | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
on the recommendations they make to make sure we look after those | :37:20. | :37:26. | |
customers who haven't engaged in switching, but should be doing so, | :37:27. | :37:29. | |
and we look forward to seeing their suggestions on Redmond remedies to | :37:30. | :37:34. | |
do so. I welcome the concern by members across the house for | :37:35. | :37:38. | |
consumers and best value. Last month the Secretary of State agreed to | :37:39. | :37:40. | |
hand out hundreds of millions of pounds in new public subsidies to | :37:41. | :37:46. | |
diesel and coal power generators through the capacity market scheme. | :37:47. | :37:50. | |
Can she tell the house how much family energy bills will rise as a | :37:51. | :37:57. | |
consequence? The capacity market is specifically designed to ensure that | :37:58. | :38:01. | |
energy security is not negotiable. Energy security is something this | :38:02. | :38:05. | |
government takes very seriously. Because of the lack of investment in | :38:06. | :38:08. | |
energy infrastructure over the past decades we have needed to make sure | :38:09. | :38:12. | |
the capacity market is in place to make sure we do not have any problem | :38:13. | :38:17. | |
at all with energy security. Diesel will form a part of the future, but | :38:18. | :38:22. | |
only in very small amounts. Let's remember, is there as back-up, and | :38:23. | :38:25. | |
will be switched on occasionally when it's needed. The condition of | :38:26. | :38:30. | |
the capacity market to people's bills will be a matter of a few | :38:31. | :38:34. | |
pounds. It's astonishing she comes to the house and repeatedly said, | :38:35. | :38:37. | |
and I quote, that the government wants to put as little pressure as | :38:38. | :38:43. | |
possible onto hard-pressed households, and is spectacularly | :38:44. | :38:45. | |
unable to answer a very simple question about how much this will | :38:46. | :38:51. | |
put on to family energy bills. In just one day in December, she agreed | :38:52. | :38:55. | |
to subsidise highly polluting diesel generators to the tune of ?175 | :38:56. | :39:03. | |
million, paid for by increasing family energy bills. Can she and is | :39:04. | :39:07. | |
this, are those companies now expected to make returns of more | :39:08. | :39:10. | |
than 20% at the expense of bill payers? What is astonishing is the | :39:11. | :39:16. | |
honourable ladies's lack of understanding of the fact that the | :39:17. | :39:21. | |
capacity market is needed because of Labour's woeful underinvestment in | :39:22. | :39:24. | |
infrastructure under their government. We are left with the | :39:25. | :39:29. | |
consequences of making sure their energy security is completely | :39:30. | :39:33. | |
reliable. The capacity market is essential to ensure that hole is | :39:34. | :39:36. | |
filled. We are proud of the way it has delivered at a second auction | :39:37. | :39:42. | |
just completed. As I said, it's a few pounds, it will be under ?10, | :39:43. | :39:46. | |
and we will ensure that energy security is never going to be a | :39:47. | :39:52. | |
question under this government. Number 14, Mr Speaker. I can assure | :39:53. | :40:00. | |
the honourable member that the good progress is being made. Energy | :40:01. | :40:04. | |
suppliers have now installed over 200 metres in homes and small | :40:05. | :40:07. | |
businesses across Britain ahead of the main installation state this | :40:08. | :40:15. | |
year. -- stage this year. In September 2014 the Public Accounts | :40:16. | :40:17. | |
Committee raised real concerns about the roll-out of smart meters. | :40:18. | :40:22. | |
Recently a former Conservative energy adviser warned the Secretary | :40:23. | :40:25. | |
of State that the roll-out would at best be regarded as a waste of | :40:26. | :40:32. | |
money, and that it is now a ghastly mess, I quote. What are you doing to | :40:33. | :40:37. | |
resolve these problems. I don't agree with that particular position. | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
I think smart meters are going to have a great future in this country. | :40:43. | :40:47. | |
We discussed earlier in these questions the issue of energy | :40:48. | :40:50. | |
security and fuel poverty and smart meters will be a very good way for | :40:51. | :40:55. | |
people to reduce their bills and use less energy, therefore creating less | :40:56. | :40:58. | |
carbon emissions and smart meters are an aborted part. No doubt the | :40:59. | :41:03. | |
introduction of smart meters will help customers control their energy | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
bills. Just so they are aware of the background to this, can the Minister | :41:09. | :41:12. | |
confirm that the UK is rolling out smart meters because of the European | :41:13. | :41:25. | |
Union's directive 2009 Stoke 72 EC. The honourable gentleman is right | :41:26. | :41:28. | |
that the European Union does have directives that give us guidance on | :41:29. | :41:33. | |
this. But there is no question that this initiative of smart meters is | :41:34. | :41:37. | |
of huge advantage to the UK customers, and it's the UK customers | :41:38. | :41:40. | |
and consumers who will always be put first. Number 15, Mr Speaker. As my | :41:41. | :41:50. | |
right honourable friend announced in her November speech, we are | :41:51. | :41:53. | |
committed to the continued growth of UK offshore wind where Britain is | :41:54. | :41:57. | |
already the world leader. This industry is a huge potential source | :41:58. | :42:00. | |
of jobs and growth and we will always focus on maximising UK | :42:01. | :42:04. | |
content in the supply chain. He will appreciate the decision on where to | :42:05. | :42:08. | |
base one company's operations is a commercial decision for them, | :42:09. | :42:12. | |
however, my officials are working closely with the developer can | :42:13. | :42:15. | |
Scottish Gottman to maximise the use of UK Government in his wind farm. | :42:16. | :42:17. | |
-- Scottish Government. Dundee and its port is ideally | :42:18. | :42:30. | |
placed to provide operation maintain and air supply. | :42:31. | :42:36. | |
Well, I absolutely agree with him. I am thinking, recently I visited one | :42:37. | :42:41. | |
of the ports in Scotland, Aberdeen, to hear how they are trying to | :42:42. | :42:47. | |
expand to accommodate not just their growth of offshore wind but the | :42:48. | :42:50. | |
potential for decommissioning in the future. It is vital that whatever | :42:51. | :42:57. | |
our energy policy we focus as far as possible on maximising all the | :42:58. | :43:03. | |
content we can in the supply chain. Number 19, Mr Speaker. | :43:04. | :43:09. | |
The oil and gas industry is vital to our economy, providing over 350,000 | :43:10. | :43:13. | |
jobs and the Government is committed to supporting it. Our latest | :43:14. | :43:18. | |
projections show in 2030 oil and gas will still be a core part of our | :43:19. | :43:24. | |
energy mix, providing nearly 70% of the UK's primary energy | :43:25. | :43:26. | |
requirements. Our commitment to the industry is why we have established | :43:27. | :43:31. | |
the oil and gas authority which is charged with working the industry to | :43:32. | :43:36. | |
maximise the economic recovery of the UK's gas and oil resources. I | :43:37. | :43:40. | |
thank the minister. The oil and gas industry has asked her Government | :43:41. | :43:50. | |
for further tax relief. And the and a professor has said it is necessary | :43:51. | :43:54. | |
to explore the potential of the North Sea. What considerations has | :43:55. | :43:59. | |
she given to refundable tax credit for exploration? | :44:00. | :44:03. | |
So the honourable lady will be aware that the Chancellor has already | :44:04. | :44:11. | |
significantly improved the fiscal the regime to encourage for | :44:12. | :44:15. | |
exploration in the North Sea basin. We had a series of meetings before | :44:16. | :44:21. | |
Christmas with the oil and gas authority and others to discuss | :44:22. | :44:25. | |
exactly what other measures could take and certainly that further | :44:26. | :44:29. | |
fiscal measure is on the table. So too is the vital importance of | :44:30. | :44:36. | |
getting production costs down, making more efficiencies, sharing | :44:37. | :44:39. | |
infrastructure and that is what the OGA is focussed on doing. I am | :44:40. | :44:44. | |
grateful to my honourable friend for raising that question and the reply. | :44:45. | :44:47. | |
I can acknowledge the work the Government has done in this sector. | :44:48. | :44:52. | |
Can the minister give me her assurance in the lead up to the | :44:53. | :44:56. | |
Budget in March that she will leave no stone unturned in ensuring this | :44:57. | :45:02. | |
vet lally important industry secures the support it needs at this | :45:03. | :45:06. | |
difficult time? I am grateful to my honourable friend who has done so | :45:07. | :45:11. | |
much - #230e cusses so much on this -- focuses so much on this sector. | :45:12. | :45:15. | |
We are focussed on what can be done in all areas to try and support this | :45:16. | :45:20. | |
vital UK sector. THE SPEAKER: Order. Topical | :45:21. | :45:25. | |
questions. Mr Mann. Topical one, Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, my thoughts are | :45:26. | :45:30. | |
with all of those affected by the recent flooding. Energy security is | :45:31. | :45:35. | |
our number one priority. We are working closely with the industry to | :45:36. | :45:41. | |
look at the risks, including severe weather, to put protections in place | :45:42. | :45:47. | |
and stop disruptions. We have ensured that power is restored to | :45:48. | :45:51. | |
customers as soon as possible in very challenging circumstances. | :45:52. | :45:56. | |
Everyone in this chamber benefits this year from the electricity the | :45:57. | :46:04. | |
cool burnt - coal burnt at power stations. What contingency | :46:05. | :46:09. | |
arrangement has been reached with EDF to ensure that in 2026 and | :46:10. | :46:16. | |
beyond, when we don't have enough power available, the decision to | :46:17. | :46:21. | |
close down coal-based power stations can be reversed? Well, Mr Speaker, | :46:22. | :46:27. | |
can I reassure the honourable gentleman that we are moving to a | :46:28. | :46:32. | |
consultation on ending coal-fired pou irstations by 2025 -- power | :46:33. | :46:36. | |
stations by 2025. I am sure he'll want to participate in it. This | :46:37. | :46:39. | |
Government is taking the long-term view on getting the right mix of | :46:40. | :46:44. | |
decarbonising and having nerge security. That is why we are making | :46:45. | :46:48. | |
this plan well ahead of time. It is ten years ahead. Thank you, Mr | :46:49. | :46:54. | |
Speaker. Given the revisions to the feed-in tariffs which will come into | :46:55. | :46:58. | |
force, has my friend made assessment on the likely effects on the solar | :46:59. | :47:03. | |
industry, particularly in the south west, where the sun nearly always | :47:04. | :47:09. | |
shines? Well, of course, he's absolutely right the sun always | :47:10. | :47:14. | |
nearly shines there. It is a great place for solar has been a | :47:15. | :47:19. | |
spectacular success there. The tariffs aim to give it sited with | :47:20. | :47:27. | |
well-sighted projects. Around 5% for solar. We believe this will be by | :47:28. | :47:34. | |
2021 save up to ?330 million a year to bill payers. At the same time | :47:35. | :47:39. | |
enable 220,000 new installations to be subsidised under the new feeding | :47:40. | :47:42. | |
tariff. Thank you. Can I welcome the | :47:43. | :47:47. | |
Secretary of State's update to the House on the actions take no-one | :47:48. | :47:50. | |
response to the floods. Particularly welcome the Prime Minister's | :47:51. | :47:55. | |
decision to set up a cross-Whitehall review of the Government's approach | :47:56. | :47:58. | |
to flood defences, which will consider the rising flood risk posed | :47:59. | :48:02. | |
by climate change. Mr Speaker, we know now that the last review, in | :48:03. | :48:07. | |
2014, which was also led by the member for West Dorset met just | :48:08. | :48:12. | |
three times and didn't publish a single finding K the Secretary of | :48:13. | :48:17. | |
State confirm to the House that she personally attends this committee? | :48:18. | :48:20. | |
Can she tell us whether it has met yet? Can she tell us how often it | :48:21. | :48:25. | |
plans to meet? Which independent expeshts are on it and what this | :48:26. | :48:30. | |
time -- expects are on it and what she time she expects it to achieve? | :48:31. | :48:34. | |
This Government takes seriously the impact of climate change and the | :48:35. | :48:38. | |
fact it has had such a devastating impact in terms of the flooding | :48:39. | :48:44. | |
recently. I can reassure here that we participated, this department, in | :48:45. | :48:51. | |
regular meetings of COBRA on a almost daily basis, to ensure that | :48:52. | :48:55. | |
electricity source were restored as quickly as possible. The review will | :48:56. | :49:01. | |
take place and we will keep a careful, watchful eye on making sure | :49:02. | :49:05. | |
it does meet and make sure it looks carefully at what impact it has had. | :49:06. | :49:10. | |
Thank you, Mr Speaker. What steps is the Government taking to address the | :49:11. | :49:14. | |
increasing shortage of skills in the nuclear industry? Well, we have | :49:15. | :49:20. | |
already taken a lot of action to tackle the skills problem at a all | :49:21. | :49:24. | |
levels, from programmes to attract more school children to stem | :49:25. | :49:28. | |
careers, to apprenticeships and training at all levels, as well as | :49:29. | :49:33. | |
setting in train work for transfer of skills from wider sectors. He's | :49:34. | :49:37. | |
right to highlight the need for new nuclear skills. Hiply will provide | :49:38. | :49:44. | |
25,000 jobs and 1,000 apprenticeships. Thank you Mr | :49:45. | :49:49. | |
Speaker. It suggests 18700 jobs could be lost as a result of the 65% | :49:50. | :49:56. | |
reduction to the solar feed-in tariff. What loss in income tax will | :49:57. | :50:01. | |
this mean to Government, in light of the ?16 billion fall short of tax | :50:02. | :50:08. | |
receipts last year? What is the combined effect if HMC press forward | :50:09. | :50:13. | |
with the increase of tax to solar installations? I can assure the | :50:14. | :50:18. | |
honourable gentleman this Government remains committed to the on-going | :50:19. | :50:22. | |
success of the solar industry. As I explained in an earlier reply. What | :50:23. | :50:26. | |
we cannot do is simply keep jobs going as a result of subsidy. Our | :50:27. | :50:32. | |
best guess under our tariff is that will support up to 23,000 jobs in | :50:33. | :50:37. | |
the solar sector. Of course it is up for the sector to bring down the | :50:38. | :50:42. | |
costs, as far as possible, to reach a subsidy-free stage by 2020. Of | :50:43. | :50:45. | |
course we will do everything we can, as I have said, if the VAT rate has | :50:46. | :50:49. | |
to go up, then we will look at what more we can do within the tariff to | :50:50. | :50:54. | |
ensure we don't penalise the sector. Thank you. Can I refer the House to | :50:55. | :51:00. | |
my register, the register of interests as chairman of globe | :51:01. | :51:04. | |
international, which held a successful summit recently in Paris | :51:05. | :51:09. | |
as part of a process. Can I ask the Secretary of State, does she agree | :51:10. | :51:17. | |
with me that the world's leading network of parliamentarians devoted | :51:18. | :51:20. | |
to leadership, legislative leadership in climate change, has a | :51:21. | :51:26. | |
key role to play to make sure it is reality. And to meet with me p to | :51:27. | :51:32. | |
make sure this is achieved? Well, I thank the honourable gentleman for | :51:33. | :51:36. | |
his question. I am aware that Globe is one of the largest forums on | :51:37. | :51:43. | |
sustainable development. I acknowledge his important role in | :51:44. | :51:47. | |
chairing it. I will be delighted to meet him to discuss how we can | :51:48. | :51:51. | |
promote parliamentarian international development on this | :51:52. | :51:56. | |
important subject. I was absolutely delighted when the minister said in | :51:57. | :52:01. | |
June at her renewable summit that we will remove subsidies. When does she | :52:02. | :52:08. | |
expect the subsidies to disappear completely? Projects just off the | :52:09. | :52:14. | |
coast of the honourable member's constituency provide enough | :52:15. | :52:19. | |
electricity for over 100,000 homes, follows hundreds of millions | :52:20. | :52:22. | |
invested by the developer, much of which was spent locally. I am sure | :52:23. | :52:27. | |
he'll welcome that. We have to get the balance between supporting newer | :52:28. | :52:31. | |
technologies and being tough on subsidies to keep bills as low as | :52:32. | :52:38. | |
possible. We will work towards getting technology subsidy, free. | :52:39. | :52:48. | |
By far and aware in the EU one third of electricity comes from that | :52:49. | :52:52. | |
source. China has 50 stations under construction. We need small modular | :52:53. | :52:57. | |
reactors. Can the minister set up her plans and in this regard? | :52:58. | :53:04. | |
Nuclear is an important part of our energy future. I am very proud we | :53:05. | :53:08. | |
have signed the first new nuclear deal in over 20 years. It will have | :53:09. | :53:17. | |
an important part. We are using part of our substantial innovation | :53:18. | :53:21. | |
funding to make sure we bring them on as early as possible. It will not | :53:22. | :53:27. | |
be at the expect of reactors going forward. Smaller nuclear is what we | :53:28. | :53:35. | |
will aim for. Earlier this week the SNP agreed a support package to | :53:36. | :53:42. | |
retain staff at DL and Clydebridge steel plans, this will address | :53:43. | :53:48. | |
costs. Can I ask what consideration the Secretary of State or of Cabinet | :53:49. | :53:54. | |
colleagues va given to bringing forward a co-her hent strategy to | :53:55. | :53:58. | |
address the high energy costs facing businesses across the UK? We are | :53:59. | :54:03. | |
well aware of the importance of keeping energy costs down in order | :54:04. | :54:06. | |
to support businesses and households. My honourable friend, | :54:07. | :54:12. | |
the Prime Minister, announced that intensives would be given a specific | :54:13. | :54:17. | |
package of support and that has got state aid clearance and will be put | :54:18. | :54:20. | |
in place as soon as possible. The minister will be aware that just | :54:21. | :54:26. | |
before Christmas, the European Commission announced new tariffs in | :54:27. | :54:32. | |
Malaysian power and they would back these to May last year. That could | :54:33. | :54:38. | |
result in many solar companies having an unwant and devastating tax | :54:39. | :54:43. | |
-- unwanted and devastating tax bill. Will she make sure this does | :54:44. | :54:47. | |
not happen? I think the honourable gentleman is right to raise this. It | :54:48. | :54:50. | |
is a real concern that in spite of the fact that the cost of solar | :54:51. | :54:56. | |
panels have developed dramatically, nevertheless in Europe they remain | :54:57. | :55:01. | |
higher than elsewhere in the world as a result of the import tariffs. | :55:02. | :55:05. | |
The commissioner was writ on the explaining how bad this is for the | :55:06. | :55:08. | |
onof going success of the UK industry. We will do everything we | :55:09. | :55:13. | |
can to ensure that those get removed as soon as possible. | :55:14. | :55:18. | |
Mr Speaker, we were disapointed in the Humber last year not to be | :55:19. | :55:23. | |
granted the national wind college in the locality, especially in light of | :55:24. | :55:27. | |
the renewables which is important to the future of the Humber area. I | :55:28. | :55:33. | |
wonder if ministers would meet with me and representatives to discuss | :55:34. | :55:39. | |
what can be done to promote a national wind college to promote | :55:40. | :55:43. | |
funding in the area. I would be delighted to meet with her and | :55:44. | :55:49. | |
colleagues. I had a huge u poer to see the new blade -- I - there have | :55:50. | :55:59. | |
been new jobs and apprenticeships in her area. I think we should do | :56:00. | :56:04. | |
everything we can to promote this northern energy powerhouse, which is | :56:05. | :56:07. | |
taking off and doing so well. THE SPEAKER: There is an arm of | :56:08. | :56:14. | |
opposition members to catch my eye. I say to the member that I don't | :56:15. | :56:20. | |
want him to feel excluded. If he wishes to contribute now we will | :56:21. | :56:24. | |
happily hear him. Not at the moment. As soon as he wants to, he can. Mr | :56:25. | :56:29. | |
Newlands. These households are more likely to | :56:30. | :56:48. | |
have prepaid metres. These are ?200 more ex-penive per year. Can the | :56:49. | :56:53. | |
speck of state tell me what she will do to make sure they have | :56:54. | :57:00. | |
availability to lower prices, as those on other methods? | :57:01. | :57:07. | |
In Paisley and Renfrewshire North, there have been eco-measures that | :57:08. | :57:14. | |
will help your constituents. 119 measures per 100,000 households to | :57:15. | :57:19. | |
be installed by 2015, compared to the average 77 per thousand in the | :57:20. | :57:25. | |
rest of the UK. Rest assured we are focused on making sure bills stay | :57:26. | :57:30. | |
low and making sure fuel poverty is addressed and the ecosystem is one | :57:31. | :57:35. | |
of the best ways to do that. In Northern Ireland one in five | :57:36. | :57:40. | |
pensioners are defined as living in income poverty. 65% of those are in | :57:41. | :57:47. | |
fuel poverty. What about the dealings with colleagues in Northern | :57:48. | :57:54. | |
Ireland to address these issues? Keeping fuel poverty up they are | :57:55. | :57:57. | |
making sure we can keep bills down is a absolute priority. Regarding | :57:58. | :58:01. | |
the statistics, I'd have to write to him. Outside Hinkley Point C, the | :58:02. | :58:10. | |
proposed new power station the government is considering, this | :58:11. | :58:15. | |
means yet again the government will be held to hostage. No guaranteed | :58:16. | :58:19. | |
programme, high profits for the suppliers, extortionate rates | :58:20. | :58:25. | |
agreed, for the just to users. Should the government not do the | :58:26. | :58:28. | |
decent thing and rethink this nuclear at all cost policy? The | :58:29. | :58:36. | |
government thinks nuclear reactors are an important part of delivering | :58:37. | :58:39. | |
on a low carbon future. There is a great opportunity to make sure we | :58:40. | :58:44. | |
develop skills. On the particular example he has referred to, I will | :58:45. | :58:48. | |
ensure my department looks at it carefully and comes back with | :58:49. | :58:53. | |
answers. In her attempt to explain the hugely unpopular cuts to solar, | :58:54. | :58:57. | |
the Secretary of State constantly pretends it's about reducing costs | :58:58. | :59:01. | |
to householders. Given industry analysis shows solar costs around | :59:02. | :59:04. | |
half the cost of Hinckley over 35 years and save consumers around ?15 | :59:05. | :59:11. | |
billion, how can she keep justifying such blatant double standards when | :59:12. | :59:15. | |
it comes to nuclear power? The honourable ladies not dealing with | :59:16. | :59:19. | |
the facts. The facts are that the solar changes will still deliver 5% | :59:20. | :59:24. | |
yields to people who put them up. The fact is that nuclear provides | :59:25. | :59:29. | |
important baseload. When the sun isn't shining, or when the wind | :59:30. | :59:32. | |
isn't blowing. The honourable lady can have her own views but not her | :59:33. | :59:40. | |
own facts. Last, but never forgotten, Mr Skinner. With the | :59:41. | :59:46. | |
Chinese economy hitting the buffers, week after week, does it make sense | :59:47. | :59:57. | |
to continue with this Chinese connection of nuclear power in | :59:58. | :00:00. | |
Britain? Isn't it time it was abandoned? A shine has been knocked | :00:01. | :00:05. | |
off it every single day. Change your mind. Can I reassure the honourable | :00:06. | :00:13. | |
gentleman that we are ambitious for this country, confident in our | :00:14. | :00:17. | |
regulations, open for business, and if the Chinese want to make a | :00:18. | :00:20. | |
substantial investment in delivery new nuclear then we will be able to | :00:21. | :00:24. | |
take it and make a great success of it. Order, business question. Chris | :00:25. | :00:31. | |
Bryant. We'll be leader give us the business for this week and next week | :00:32. | :00:38. | |
and all the rest? Probably not all the rest, Mr Speaker, but the | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
business next week on Monday the 11th, we will debate the remaining | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
stages of the Armed Forces Bill. After that, a general debate on | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
local government funding for rural areas nominated by the backbench | :00:51. | :00:54. | |
business committee. On Tuesday the 12th, the conclusion of the | :00:55. | :00:57. | |
remaining stages of the Housing and planning Bill. On Wednesday the | :00:58. | :01:02. | |
13th, an opposition day with a debate on trade exports, innovation | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
and productivity in the name of the Scottish National party. On Thursday | :01:07. | :01:12. | |
the 14th, another day of business nominated by the backbench business | :01:13. | :01:15. | |
committee. On Friday the 15th of January, we are not sitting. The | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
provisional business for the week commencing the 18th of January will | :01:21. | :01:23. | |
include, on Monday the 18th, the second reading of the energy bill at | :01:24. | :01:29. | |
the Lords. Tuesday the 19th, another opposition day on a motion to be | :01:30. | :01:34. | |
announced by the party opposite. Wednesday the 28, we have the | :01:35. | :01:38. | |
remaining stages of the psychoactive substances bill at the Lords, | :01:39. | :01:42. | |
followed if necessary by consideration of Lords amendments. | :01:43. | :01:45. | |
On Thursday the 21st of January, another day of business nominated by | :01:46. | :01:51. | |
the backbench business committee. On Friday the 22nd we will debate the | :01:52. | :01:53. | |
private members bills. I should inform the house that the business | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
in the Westminster Hall for the 18th of January, decided buy the | :01:58. | :02:03. | |
petitions committee will be a debate on the petition is relating to the | :02:04. | :02:06. | |
exclusion of Donald Trump from the United Kingdom. I'm certainly up for | :02:07. | :02:14. | |
that one. Mr Speaker, happy New Year, and if you were Russian, happy | :02:15. | :02:19. | |
Christmas. Many congratulations for the honourable member for North West | :02:20. | :02:22. | |
Norfolk and the wonderful Chief Whip who proves that there is nothing | :02:23. | :02:31. | |
quite like a game. -- a game. Warm congratulations to the new Serjeant | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
at Arms elect. We look forward to working with him. In the words of | :02:36. | :02:40. | |
Stephen Sondheim, I'm still here. LAUGHTER | :02:41. | :02:50. | |
I'm delighted, Mr Speaker, that the honourable member for | :02:51. | :02:53. | |
Stratford-upon-Avon yesterday joined my call for a proper parliamentary | :02:54. | :02:59. | |
commemoration for the 400th anniversary of the death of William | :03:00. | :03:05. | |
Shakespeare, but I thought he rather marred the effect by referring to | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
him as the greatest living bard, which Hansard has corrected for him. | :03:10. | :03:16. | |
Should we have a Shakespeare debate in order to consider the | :03:17. | :03:19. | |
government's own special use of the English language? The Leader of the | :03:20. | :03:24. | |
Opposition asked yesterday about the ?120 million flood defence projects | :03:25. | :03:30. | |
in Leeds that was cancelled in 2011. The Prime Minister stated quite | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
categorically that no flood defence schemes had been cancelled since | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
2010, but that's not quite the case, is it, Mr Speaker? The Prime | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
Minister's official spokesman had to dig the Prime Minister out of that | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
hole bio referring to the most extraordinary bout of circulation | :03:48. | :03:58. | |
yesterday saying that Jeremy Corbyn had a proposal made but not adopted. | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
In Shakespeare's in this, that means it was cancelled. The truth is that | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
families don't want spend, they want proper protection from flooding. | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
That wasn't all. When the member for Cardiff West asked the Prime | :04:14. | :04:16. | |
Minister about the nub of special advisers, the Prime Minister said | :04:17. | :04:19. | |
that there were fewer special advisers under this government than | :04:20. | :04:22. | |
there were under the last government. He meant as old to | :04:23. | :04:26. | |
believe that he had cut the number of special advisers since it came to | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
power. He can't have meant that, can he, because under the last Prime | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
Minister there were 71 special advisers. Now there are 97. I know | :04:36. | :04:41. | |
the Secretary of State for Education can't do her times tables, but even | :04:42. | :04:44. | |
she must be able to work out that is a net increase of 26. The Prime | :04:45. | :04:50. | |
Minister's words yesterday can only be true if, when he said the last | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
judgment, he didn't mean the Labour government, he meant the government | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
he led last year. It's as if he hasn't existed for five years. I've | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
heard of people being airbrushed out of history by their opponents, but | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
this is the first time I've ever heard of a Prime Minister | :05:09. | :05:11. | |
airbrushing himself out of his own history books. I note that yet again | :05:12. | :05:15. | |
the leader of the house has only given us the dates for the East of | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
recess and not for the State Opening of Parliament over the Whitsun | :05:21. | :05:27. | |
recess. Is that because he doesn't yet know when he will table the | :05:28. | :05:33. | |
motion for the EU referendum date? Can he now come clean? Can he tell | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
us how he will vote? It's not a matter of conscience for him any | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
more, he would even be able to keep his two special advisers and | :05:43. | :05:45. | |
ministerial car and salary. He could tell us, in or out. It's an outcome | :05:46. | :05:54. | |
isn't it? Come on, come out! Can I also suggest that after every | :05:55. | :06:00. | |
recess, the first day back is devoted to no business other than | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
statements from government ministers and urgent questions. Firstly, it | :06:05. | :06:07. | |
might stop the government from piling up bad news announcements for | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
the last day before the recess. This December was the worst ever with 36 | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
in one day. In one day we learned immigration officers have given up | :06:17. | :06:20. | |
hunting for 10,000 missing asylum seekers, the HMRC lost out on ?16 | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
billion of tax, there will be a massive expansion of fracking for | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
shale gas, and in the recess we learned that the government has | :06:30. | :06:33. | |
abandoned the SCA review of the culture of banking, and half the | :06:34. | :06:36. | |
Cabinet went to pay tribute to Rupert Murdoch. Bearing gifts of a | :06:37. | :06:44. | |
licence fee cut, and ending the Levenson and tax cuts for | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
billionaires. Isn't it time they learned that Rupert isn't the | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
Messiah, he's a very naughty boy. On Tuesday we will have the remaining | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
stages of the Housing Bill. For the first time in our history, some | :06:57. | :06:59. | |
members of this house will be barred from voting in a division in this | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
chamber. Was it not propose to us that we started debating the bill at | :07:05. | :07:10. | |
8:50pm on Tuesday, and over the recess the government tabled 65 | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
pages of amendments to a bill that is only 145 pages long. Not one | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
amendment on resilience and sustainable drainage. Can the leader | :07:20. | :07:24. | |
calorie and a view things about the operation of evil on Tuesday next | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
week? Because of the programme motion the government has tabled we | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
will have to proceed on the basis of manuscript motions from the | :07:33. | :07:35. | |
government and manuscript amendments, if there are any. That's | :07:36. | :07:39. | |
right, isn't it? Surely it's wrong to proceed on shut important | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
measures the first time we are doing this on manuscript business. Would | :07:44. | :07:47. | |
it be better to devote the whole of Tuesday to report stage and keep | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
remaining stages for another day. Could there be a clearer symbol of | :07:53. | :07:58. | |
how incompetent conservative ministers are than the events of | :07:59. | :08:04. | |
this Monday afternoon when two government ministers visited flood | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
victims in Pooley. Not only did they arrive late, but they turned up at | :08:09. | :08:11. | |
the wrong end of a bridge that had been washed away a month ago. A | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
farmer had to be dispatched on a quad bike to take the two MPs a 30 | :08:16. | :08:22. | |
minute ride, while the bewildered entourage of civil servants, and hat | :08:23. | :08:25. | |
carriers to trundle along in a minibus. I suppose you can just | :08:26. | :08:30. | |
understand the confusion if it weren't for the fact that the two | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
ministers concerned with the transport minister, who really | :08:35. | :08:37. | |
should know when a bridge has disappeared, and the local MP! Who | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
had already visited the bridge once before since the bridge disappeared. | :08:42. | :08:47. | |
I gather there was some signalling from the villagers on the other side | :08:48. | :08:51. | |
of the river, but it's not quite clear what they were trying to | :08:52. | :08:57. | |
suggest. You really couldn't make it up, could you, Mr Speaker. Finally, | :08:58. | :09:02. | |
four new elements of the periodic table have been discovered this | :09:03. | :09:05. | |
week, and scientists are looking for new names for them. Apparently, | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
these elements are dangerous and short lived. Rather like the... | :09:11. | :09:16. | |
Rather like the Right Honourable member's policies at the Ministry of | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
Justice. Can I suggest one of them is named Graylingium. Welcome to day | :09:21. | :09:35. | |
four of the Labour reshuffle. I imagine it's been a frustrating week | :09:36. | :09:40. | |
for the shadow leader. As Oscar Wilde so famously said, the only | :09:41. | :09:42. | |
thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about. Never | :09:43. | :09:48. | |
mind, I suspect he will make a return to the on Monday. It's his | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
birthday and I think he will appear in the court circular and I wish him | :09:54. | :10:00. | |
happy birthday for next week. Can I also echo your comments yesterday | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
about the new Serjeant at Arms. I worked with him, he's a fine man and | :10:05. | :10:11. | |
a consummate professional. When I discovered he was in the frame for | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
this job I was delighted. He will be an excellent appointment and will | :10:16. | :10:18. | |
serve the house at Arab League. I'm very grateful to all of those who | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
sat as part of the recruitment process for the work they did, for | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
the choice they made, and I would commend the appointment of a house. | :10:28. | :10:35. | |
-- serve the house admirably. The new Northern Irish First Minister | :10:36. | :10:39. | |
took her position over the Christmas period and takes up a difficult and | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
challenging role. It's in all of our interests to wish her well for it. | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
We all want to see stability continue in Northern Ireland and it | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
continued to succeed in the future. On the European Union, the Labour | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
Party has a leader who has changed his mind twice in the last few | :10:59. | :11:02. | |
months. They claim to support a reformed European Union, but won't | :11:03. | :11:05. | |
say what they want to reform. They didn't even want a referendum. The | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
Prime Minister this week has done the right thing. I'm not going to | :11:11. | :11:14. | |
take any lessons from the party opposite. When are they ever going | :11:15. | :11:17. | |
to do the right thing for their people? Mr Speaker, he talks about | :11:18. | :11:25. | |
the issue of what people meant, what people say. I would remind him of | :11:26. | :11:31. | |
what it means in a Labour Party when people say something. In a Labour | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
Party... The Conservative Party, a free vote means you can vote | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
according to your own conscience. In the Labour Party, a free vote means | :11:41. | :11:43. | |
you can vote according to the leader's conscience. In terms of the | :11:44. | :11:51. | |
flooding issue, I am proud of the response this country has made to a | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
devastating situation in so many parts of the country. Our emergency | :11:57. | :12:02. | |
services, our voluntary services, local community, the Armed Forces, | :12:03. | :12:05. | |
have come together to deal with a dreadful situation I think | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
effectively and well. We have committed as a government to provide | :12:11. | :12:13. | |
financial support to all communities affected in a way that goes far | :12:14. | :12:16. | |
beyond what has taken place in the past. | :12:17. | :12:23. | |
But I am proud of the way this country has responded. I'm happy to | :12:24. | :12:30. | |
say I think we have done a better job this time than has been done in | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
the past. We will learn lessons for the future, but it is imperative | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
that we do the right thing when troubles like this strike. On the | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
question of the announcements made before Christmas. I have stood at | :12:44. | :12:48. | |
this dispatch box week after week, listening to questions on when can | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
we have an update, can we have an announcement for Christmas, can we | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
have a publication of the report before Christmas? We actually | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
produced before Christmas a whole range of announcements and | :13:04. | :13:05. | |
publications confirmations, then they complain about it. It is | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
nonsense. We will do the right thing this country. It will continue to | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
complain about it, but I am taking no lessons from them. On the housing | :13:16. | :13:23. | |
report, we are having a two-day report on this bill, something which | :13:24. | :13:25. | |
is often called for. At 1am on Tuesday, when we, and this | :13:26. | :13:44. | |
side of the house, were debating those measures, most of the people | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
on the benches opposite had gone home to bed, so why will take no | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
lessons from him either on them saying we should be offering more | :13:53. | :13:55. | |
time for debate on when we are debating and fearlessly. He brought | :13:56. | :14:01. | |
up the question of Shakespeare. And when I listen to him, it reminds me, | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
when I listen to him, it reminds me of that great quote from King Lear, | :14:07. | :14:17. | |
have more than usual, speak less than you know. We should express our | :14:18. | :14:24. | |
thanks to the Labour Party. When we come back to work after Christmas, | :14:25. | :14:30. | |
we think, I wish it could be Christmas every day. Looking at the | :14:31. | :14:38. | |
Labour reshuffle, frankly, it is. Successful local businesses in a | :14:39. | :14:44. | |
prominent office building in my constituency have recently been | :14:45. | :14:47. | |
informed they will have to vacate so that force can be converted. Come | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
and have a debate and consider whether the planning system affords | :14:53. | :14:58. | |
adequate protection for high-quality business space, which is so vital | :14:59. | :15:01. | |
for generating jobs in places like Cheltenham? I understand these | :15:02. | :15:07. | |
points. The change we have brought forward is to make sure that | :15:08. | :15:12. | |
redundant office buildings can be quickly used for residential | :15:13. | :15:16. | |
purposes, given the nature of the housing challenge we face in this | :15:17. | :15:19. | |
country. We all agree we need to make more housing available, but I | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
will take note of what he says. There will be an opportunity to | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
question the Secretary of State for local government. I think he does | :15:29. | :15:31. | |
make a valid point, but I think this is a policy we need to make sure we | :15:32. | :15:35. | |
don't have empty commercial buildings of people are struggling | :15:36. | :15:41. | |
to get on the housing ladder. Thank you for announcing the business for | :15:42. | :15:45. | |
next week. Can I take this opportunity to wish you properly a | :15:46. | :15:50. | |
happy New Year and that is extended to all the staff who worked so | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
diligently throughout the course of the year. On behalf of the Scottish | :15:56. | :16:03. | |
National party, we want to congratulate the first BM ease | :16:04. | :16:09. | |
Serjeant at Arms and we wish them the best for the future. I think | :16:10. | :16:14. | |
this could be a fantastic year, it will be a particularly good year for | :16:15. | :16:20. | |
the SNP. Restart the New Year just as we entered the old year, with | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
divisions in the Conservative Party and the Labour Party. With the | :16:26. | :16:29. | |
Conservatives, it is Europe as usual and I know the leader of the house | :16:30. | :16:33. | |
is now looking forward to campaigning for the cherished exit. | :16:34. | :16:39. | |
At least he will have the opportunity. We might, as a nation, | :16:40. | :16:45. | |
be taken out of the European Union against our will. The Labour Party | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
are probably divided on just about anything else, and as the Civil War | :16:50. | :16:55. | |
descends into the total, intractable variety, it is time to send some | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
international peace envoy, because somebody needs to rescue them from | :17:00. | :17:05. | |
themselves. This week's business has been dominated by the flooding, the | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
flooding that has impacted on practically every constituency in | :17:11. | :17:14. | |
this nation, and my constituency remains so much underwater, given I | :17:15. | :17:18. | |
have the biggest river system in the whole of the UK. But that is a | :17:19. | :17:22. | |
massive disappointment in the country on the tune of the debate. | :17:23. | :17:29. | |
When we have tragedy like we have observed, I think this house hasn't | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
risen to the occasion and debates have been of their partisan and | :17:34. | :17:41. | |
point-scoring for IT. There will be much more debates like that in the | :17:42. | :17:47. | |
future. Can I make an appeal, but we try to debate this properly and | :17:48. | :17:50. | |
consensually and constructively, might we have heard on the SNP when | :17:51. | :17:54. | |
we have addressed these issues in this house. Listening to the | :17:55. | :18:00. | |
Chancellor this morning, what has happened to the Chancellor? After | :18:01. | :18:06. | |
all the cheesiness of the Autumn Statement and the gloom today, I | :18:07. | :18:10. | |
don't know if it is just some are characteristic honesty, Dorothy has | :18:11. | :18:15. | |
had some assessment of the fortunes of the country? Perhaps we can find | :18:16. | :18:26. | |
out what is ailing him and offer him some proper economic medicine. As we | :18:27. | :18:35. | |
finish this debate today, we will be discussing the appalling situation | :18:36. | :18:38. | |
of the unfair change to the state pension imposed on women. I'm | :18:39. | :18:48. | |
delighted that it is the youngest member of this house who will be | :18:49. | :18:52. | |
leading the debate. So many of our constituents caught up in this trap | :18:53. | :18:57. | |
and we're hoping to hear something positive today when the minister | :18:58. | :19:02. | |
response. Let's just hope the government thinks about doing the | :19:03. | :19:05. | |
right thing for obese women. Lastly, this will be a massive year, and of | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
the government think they can put their feet up while observing the | :19:10. | :19:13. | |
chaos in the Labour Party, they will have another thought, because it | :19:14. | :19:17. | |
will have united opposition and that united opposition will inhabit the | :19:18. | :19:21. | |
benches here, which will make sure the government is held to account. | :19:22. | :19:29. | |
Happy New Year to the honourable gentleman and his colleagues. It is | :19:30. | :19:35. | |
good to see him back in this house. We are going to disagree on much | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
this year, but on that latter point, we will agree. It has been a | :19:41. | :19:43. | |
shambles. The one thing that has been a shambles -- hasn't been a | :19:44. | :19:54. | |
shambles is that I do offer congratulations to the opposition | :19:55. | :19:58. | |
Chief Whip. It is a well-deserved honour, she has been an excellent | :19:59. | :20:02. | |
servant of those highs and it is something that has been welcomed on | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
all sides of this house. I offer her my sincere congratulations. The | :20:08. | :20:19. | |
shadow leader likes the sound of his own voice more than anyone else in | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
this place. If you could just be patient, I was about to come on and | :20:24. | :20:35. | |
say I am also delighted that the other member honoured in the New | :20:36. | :20:40. | |
Year 's Honours list, they both very much deserved it and I apologise for | :20:41. | :20:45. | |
not seeing so earlier. It has been an utter shambles in the Labour | :20:46. | :20:54. | |
Party. I noticed the shadow leader's Parliamentary Private Sega J has | :20:55. | :20:59. | |
disappeared, so maybe he is being moved around into different | :21:00. | :21:07. | |
positions. You could not make up the idea that we would get into four | :21:08. | :21:13. | |
days of the reshuffle and this is just a sign of how utterly | :21:14. | :21:15. | |
incompetent they are as an opposition. But he is back on some | :21:16. | :21:20. | |
of his usual themes this week. I would remind him that the United | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
Kingdom will vote on a future in the European Union and Scotland voted to | :21:26. | :21:30. | |
be a part of the United Kingdom. I know he has never quite accepted | :21:31. | :21:35. | |
that reality, but the reality is nonetheless that Scotland chose to | :21:36. | :21:38. | |
be part of the United Kingdom and we will vote as one United Kingdom. On | :21:39. | :21:43. | |
the economy, the Chancellor is talking about the challenges we face | :21:44. | :21:51. | |
internationally. The number of people claiming jobseeker's | :21:52. | :21:55. | |
allowance has have since 2010. The number of children growing up in | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
work with households has fallen by half a million. The level of | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
employment in this country has mushroomed under this government. He | :22:04. | :22:09. | |
should look across at this bench and say, these are people who have | :22:10. | :22:12. | |
delivered for this country and they will carry on delivering for this | :22:13. | :22:17. | |
country. He talked about the floods, I would pay to beat all of those in | :22:18. | :22:24. | |
Scotland. I know Southwest Scotland was particularly badly affected. All | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
those involved in the emergency services have done a fairly good | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
job. It was a distressing period for this country, I hope those | :22:35. | :22:38. | |
communities get themselves back together shortly. I will look | :22:39. | :22:43. | |
forward this year to our usual amicable debate. We will not agree | :22:44. | :22:47. | |
on most things, but I always enjoy seeing him there and I look forward | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
to this year. Do you recall that in little bit this year, the | :22:53. | :22:59. | |
administration nodded through an unwelcome recommendation from the | :23:00. | :23:01. | |
House of Lords that we should abandon the centuries-old tradition | :23:02. | :23:05. | |
of recording acts of parliament on bail, will which means we are | :23:06. | :23:10. | |
putting out a number of workers in Milton Keynes, who are the last | :23:11. | :23:22. | |
remaining experts on this. -- recording acts of Parliament on | :23:23. | :23:34. | |
vellum. Will the other house tell me if the government has any plans to | :23:35. | :23:39. | |
make time available for debate and if there is no debate, can he | :23:40. | :23:43. | |
confirm the recommendation cannot go ahead? This is a matter for | :23:44. | :23:50. | |
discussion by the relevant committees, it is on their agendas. | :23:51. | :23:55. | |
As of today, I have had no requests to make available time. There is a | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
balance between maintaining traditions of this house and | :24:01. | :24:04. | |
country, also making sure what we do is cost effective. It is a matter | :24:05. | :24:09. | |
for debate and am not aware that any final decision has been reached. Can | :24:10. | :24:17. | |
we have a debate, perhaps in government time, or in backbench | :24:18. | :24:20. | |
business, on flooding, with a particular focus on Brazilians of | :24:21. | :24:28. | |
major critical infrastructure assets. A quarter of all bridges, | :24:29. | :24:36. | |
10% of all emergency stations, 6% of hospitals are in areas susceptible | :24:37. | :24:40. | |
to flooding. The last resilience review did not report to Parliament | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
because of national security issues. Can he make sure that the next flood | :24:46. | :24:50. | |
resilience report which is about to be carried out, does report to this | :24:51. | :24:54. | |
place and is treated by the intelligence and Security committee | :24:55. | :24:56. | |
as the national security threat which it actually is. One of the | :24:57. | :25:02. | |
things we will have to do is learn lessons from the flooding, like the | :25:03. | :25:08. | |
areas where mobile phone networks have come down. These are things | :25:09. | :25:14. | |
that are already being looked at very carefully in the government | :25:15. | :25:17. | |
office. We did have a debate yesterday, there will be further | :25:18. | :25:21. | |
opportunities to discuss this in future, but I can assure her that | :25:22. | :25:27. | |
work is taking place now to make sure lessons are learned and been | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
can protect our critical national infrastructure. She is absolutely | :25:33. | :25:39. | |
right. We have a debate on the action needed on air pollution on | :25:40. | :25:43. | |
health. Across the world, we are losing around 7 million people a | :25:44. | :25:50. | |
year due to the effects of air pollution and locally, the terrible | :25:51. | :25:54. | |
consequences of standing traffic, which you see in my constituency. I | :25:55. | :26:00. | |
know she has been a tireless campaigner since her election on | :26:01. | :26:03. | |
trying to secure local improvements. I know she campaigned on a link | :26:04. | :26:09. | |
ruled in her constituency. Many of these decisions are now taken | :26:10. | :26:14. | |
locally and discussions with county councils about what should be | :26:15. | :26:18. | |
prioritised for the future. We will continue to look for ways in the | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
best thing nationally and providing financial support to local and | :26:23. | :26:26. | |
regional authorities to make sure we provide what they need to keep | :26:27. | :26:30. | |
traffic flowing and ease the ear pollution. Could I thank the leader | :26:31. | :26:39. | |
of the highs for the business statement and the advance notice of | :26:40. | :26:43. | |
the two days of backbench business committee debates to be held on the | :26:44. | :26:49. | |
14th and the 21st. I'm glad to say that before the Christmas recess, we | :26:50. | :26:52. | |
were pretty much up-to-date with our waiting list of debates to be tabled | :26:53. | :27:00. | |
and we must have a clear deck, so appealing to honourable members | :27:01. | :27:02. | |
across the house for applications for business on those two days. | :27:03. | :27:04. | |
Thank very much. Can I commend the honourable | :27:05. | :27:14. | |
gentleman and his committee for the work they do. For the backbench | :27:15. | :27:17. | |
system to work well we need colleagues on all sides to come | :27:18. | :27:21. | |
forward with topics for debate. We have seen requests in this session | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
in recent weeks for things like the debates on policing and so forth, | :27:27. | :27:31. | |
and I want to see members seeing those traditions continue, but the | :27:32. | :27:34. | |
appropriate channel now is to go through the backbench business | :27:35. | :27:37. | |
committee, where I'm think there will be a receptive ear. Is the | :27:38. | :27:43. | |
leader of the house aware that the European Commission is attempting | :27:44. | :27:47. | |
for the third time to introduce damaging and wasteful regulations on | :27:48. | :27:54. | |
the UK's ports? Employers and workers representatives agree that | :27:55. | :27:58. | |
these measures will damage investment and jobs. The European | :27:59. | :28:05. | |
committee of which I am a member has called for these measures to be | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
debated on the floor of the house, not in committee. Can the leader of | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
the house look urgently at this issue and ensure this matter is | :28:15. | :28:17. | |
properly scrutinised by the whole house? I'm aware of the issue. I've | :28:18. | :28:23. | |
had a number of discussions with colleagues who represent ports and | :28:24. | :28:26. | |
have concerns about these issues in the last couple of days. The Chief | :28:27. | :28:31. | |
Whip and I are considering those representations now and I can assure | :28:32. | :28:34. | |
my honourable friend this is a matter that is on our agenda. We | :28:35. | :28:39. | |
have to make sure this is got right. When the Prime Minister talks about | :28:40. | :28:42. | |
the need for deregulation in Europe, he's right, and it's not entirely | :28:43. | :28:48. | |
clear to me why we should have regulation of ports at European | :28:49. | :28:53. | |
level anyway. It needs to be the right regulation, if it needs to | :28:54. | :28:58. | |
happen at all. The leader of the house will be delighted to know that | :28:59. | :29:02. | |
Hull has been put in the top ten cities of the world to visit by the | :29:03. | :29:06. | |
rough guide, alongside Vancouver and Amsterdam. I can see he's delighted | :29:07. | :29:12. | |
by that why the comment he is making to the government Chief Whip. On | :29:13. | :29:16. | |
that basis, can we please have a statement from the Minister for the | :29:17. | :29:22. | |
Northern powerhouse to discuss how transport links can be improved to a | :29:23. | :29:28. | |
global city, and the UK global city of culture 2017, including | :29:29. | :29:31. | |
electrified rail and the scrapping of the Humber tolls on the Humber | :29:32. | :29:36. | |
Bridge. Can I congratulate her and all the people of Hull on a | :29:37. | :29:41. | |
remarkable achievement. It's always a matter of pride to this country | :29:42. | :29:46. | |
when one of our great cities received worldwide acclamation and | :29:47. | :29:49. | |
we can all be proud of Hull making that achievement. We should also be | :29:50. | :29:54. | |
proud of the preparations for the capital of culture year. It promises | :29:55. | :29:58. | |
to be a great year for the city. I know my colleagues in different | :29:59. | :30:01. | |
parts of government will do what they can to help ensure that for the | :30:02. | :30:05. | |
people and authorities of Hull, it's a moment of great historic | :30:06. | :30:09. | |
importance and enjoyment for the city. The Prime Minister quite | :30:10. | :30:16. | |
rightly has made the decision that all members on this side of the | :30:17. | :30:19. | |
house can speak with their conscience over the European debate, | :30:20. | :30:23. | |
and rightly so. Given that, can we have a series of debates on the | :30:24. | :30:26. | |
European Union and what it will mean for this country when the referendum | :30:27. | :30:30. | |
comes, so the people of this country are aware of what they can and can't | :30:31. | :30:34. | |
vote for and why they should and shouldn't vote the way there | :30:35. | :30:38. | |
conscience is take, the way this side of the house can. I suspect we | :30:39. | :30:43. | |
will have extensive debates in this house and around the country, and | :30:44. | :30:47. | |
rightly so, over the next few months. This is perhaps the key | :30:48. | :30:53. | |
issue for our generation. While there appears to the debate around | :30:54. | :30:59. | |
much of the country, they do not have the debate on the other side of | :31:00. | :31:04. | |
the house. They called for a reformed European Union, but will | :31:05. | :31:07. | |
not say what they are prepared to reform. Can I thank the leader of | :31:08. | :31:14. | |
the house for his kind comments in relation to the new leader of the | :31:15. | :31:20. | |
DUP, and the incoming First Minister. We look forward to a | :31:21. | :31:27. | |
bright future for Northern Ireland. The leader of the house will be | :31:28. | :31:29. | |
aware, because I know of his interest in this, of the High Court | :31:30. | :31:34. | |
decision to grant a was at control licence, something that took five | :31:35. | :31:37. | |
years to happen. In light of that High Court decision, will the leader | :31:38. | :31:47. | |
of the house say that all future buzzard control licences will be | :31:48. | :31:53. | |
looked unfavourably in the future? I will ensure that my right honourable | :31:54. | :32:01. | |
friend takes a look and gives a proper response. I'll ask him to | :32:02. | :32:08. | |
write to and respond. As somebody interested in international Pavel | :32:09. | :32:10. | |
and, you will be interested to know I just returned from Uganda, looking | :32:11. | :32:15. | |
at the terrible situation of the malaria epidemic in the north of the | :32:16. | :32:20. | |
country. Could we have a debate on the health systems in Uganda which | :32:21. | :32:25. | |
are failing the people, mothers and children are dying of malaria, it | :32:26. | :32:28. | |
should not be happening in this day and age. Could we have an urgent | :32:29. | :32:32. | |
debate on discussing this situation in this house, please. First of all, | :32:33. | :32:38. | |
can I commend my honourable friend on the work she's doing. Malaria is | :32:39. | :32:43. | |
a scourge in many parts of the world and is particularly bad in Uganda at | :32:44. | :32:46. | |
the moment. They terrible disease that can cost the lives of very | :32:47. | :32:51. | |
young people and blight communities. She makes a very portable point. I | :32:52. | :32:55. | |
know she herself was looking to debate the matter of Uganda in this | :32:56. | :33:00. | |
house. There is a broader debate happening in this house in the near | :33:01. | :33:06. | |
future on the impact of a malaria globally. She makes a good point | :33:07. | :33:11. | |
that the situation in Uganda merits attention in this house, and I hope | :33:12. | :33:16. | |
the fact we are as prominent and international donor of aid as any | :33:17. | :33:21. | |
country in the world, we could do some thing as a nation to help | :33:22. | :33:24. | |
Uganda, a country with which we have historic ties. Could we debate | :33:25. | :33:30. | |
whether Parliament is slipping back into its bad old ways that lead to | :33:31. | :33:35. | |
the expenses scandal? In recent cases involving Malcolm Rifkind, | :33:36. | :33:39. | |
Jack Straw, Tim Yeo, and Lord Ben Carson wrote, we need decisions were | :33:40. | :33:47. | |
made by bodies in this house, but harsh decisions made by independent | :33:48. | :33:50. | |
voices outside, including the courts and Ofcom. The committee | :33:51. | :33:57. | |
adjudicating on Lord Ben, was chaired by Lord Siew, who has his | :33:58. | :34:02. | |
own difficulties now. If we don't look at how one of our bodies who is | :34:03. | :34:06. | |
meant to be a watchdog, is actually toothless Aussie cat, and look at | :34:07. | :34:14. | |
the uselessness of it so, and expensive ornament, isn't there a | :34:15. | :34:19. | |
grave danger we can slip back into new scandals in the future? I think | :34:20. | :34:26. | |
we now have the most regulated system of operation for any | :34:27. | :34:31. | |
Parliament across the whole of Europe, probably. The reality is | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
that there are always cases to be made to improve the situation. I | :34:37. | :34:39. | |
will not discuss individual members here or of the House of Lords, but | :34:40. | :34:46. | |
there are proper processes in the house to make changes and | :34:47. | :34:50. | |
improvements, meticulously through the standards and privileges | :34:51. | :34:53. | |
committee, which has responsibility for the overall approach. This | :34:54. | :35:01. | |
Christmas news headlines were dominated by the floods. We can | :35:02. | :35:07. | |
recognise that. I'm concerned about the number of wildlife that has been | :35:08. | :35:13. | |
lost, including hedgehogs. While Plymouth didn't face the kind of | :35:14. | :35:17. | |
problems that saw the railway line at Dawlish washed away, over the | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
last to make years, in my constituency the walls are falling | :35:23. | :35:27. | |
into the sea. Can we have a statement from the government as to | :35:28. | :35:31. | |
how it is local authorities can make sure they can apply for money in | :35:32. | :35:35. | |
order to deliver and look after their heritage as well. Can I start | :35:36. | :35:41. | |
by saying to my honourable friend that I have seen over Christmas that | :35:42. | :35:45. | |
he has continued his valuable campaign on protecting the hedgehog, | :35:46. | :35:48. | |
and I'm sure we will hear more about that work in the coming months. In | :35:49. | :35:53. | |
terms of the impact of floods, last year it was about the south-west, | :35:54. | :35:56. | |
this year it's about challenges further north. It's important we | :35:57. | :36:02. | |
learn lessons. We have to ensure we make compensation available for | :36:03. | :36:06. | |
communities affected by flooding, and there are various mechanisms and | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
funds available for communities to protect historic buildings and | :36:11. | :36:13. | |
historic sites. There are many of those in his constituency and I will | :36:14. | :36:16. | |
be happy to make sure that the relevant minister talks to him about | :36:17. | :36:22. | |
the options available. The leader will be aware of significant | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
concerns that the UK might be in breach of international law for | :36:27. | :36:31. | |
supplying Saudi Arabia with weapons used in the Yemen. Does the leader | :36:32. | :36:38. | |
have any intelligence about when the arms intelligence select committee | :36:39. | :36:40. | |
will be re-established. We need that select committee looking at the | :36:41. | :36:45. | |
issues and ensuring the UK is not in breach of international law. That | :36:46. | :36:51. | |
committee is effectively a conglomeration of four difference | :36:52. | :36:54. | |
elected committees that can meet whenever. Its decision to meet and | :36:55. | :36:59. | |
not meat is not a matter for the government, it's a matter for the | :37:00. | :37:02. | |
chairs of those committees. There's no reason that can't happen now. I | :37:03. | :37:11. | |
was disturbed last night when I visited a winter night shelter | :37:12. | :37:17. | |
posted by churches across Enfield. I spoke to a man who told me that if | :37:18. | :37:21. | |
it wasn't for the night shelter, he would be travelling around the night | :37:22. | :37:26. | |
buses tonight and in future nights because he himself is either not too | :37:27. | :37:30. | |
young or vulnerable enough to get housing. Can we have a debate which | :37:31. | :37:36. | |
looks at developing a cross departmental strategy for | :37:37. | :37:38. | |
homelessness which will prevent people like him becoming homeless in | :37:39. | :37:41. | |
the future. It should not be tolerated in Britain in 2016. Can I | :37:42. | :37:46. | |
start by commending my honourable friend. He is typical of many people | :37:47. | :37:53. | |
in this house who do unseen and unsung work in the community, | :37:54. | :37:57. | |
visiting shelters, spending nights out with the homeless on the | :37:58. | :38:01. | |
streets. I commend him for what he's doing and bringing this issue to the | :38:02. | :38:05. | |
house. The best solution for homelessness is to have more homes, | :38:06. | :38:08. | |
which is at the centre of which this covenant is doing. -- what this | :38:09. | :38:15. | |
government is doing. We will do what we can to end the blight of | :38:16. | :38:21. | |
homelessness. Can we have a debate on how we improve support and the | :38:22. | :38:26. | |
dignity of people who suffer in continents. Sadly there is a | :38:27. | :38:33. | |
postcode lottery across the UK for access to support and advice on | :38:34. | :38:38. | |
these problems. There is also a problem and how often you can access | :38:39. | :38:45. | |
the problems materials to deal with the problem. 200,000 people were | :38:46. | :38:52. | |
admitted to hospital with your retreat tract infections. If we | :38:53. | :39:00. | |
attack these problems we can do it with dignity and respect and save | :39:01. | :39:03. | |
considerable sums of money. Can we look at this problem across covenant | :39:04. | :39:07. | |
and see how we can begin to tackle it? For those who suffer from the | :39:08. | :39:16. | |
different conditions described, it's both enormously disruptive to life | :39:17. | :39:20. | |
and distressing, but the decisions about these things are devolved, not | :39:21. | :39:24. | |
only with the United Kingdom to different parts of the United | :39:25. | :39:27. | |
Kingdom, but local clinical and commissioning groups who take the | :39:28. | :39:30. | |
decisions about how to operate policies in their local communities. | :39:31. | :39:34. | |
Where there are members who have a situation in their constituency | :39:35. | :39:37. | |
which they think are not right, they need to take those up with the local | :39:38. | :39:40. | |
clinical and commissioning groups and try to get a change of practice | :39:41. | :39:44. | |
in those communities. My constituency in Kettering are | :39:45. | :39:49. | |
outraged that an illegal immigrant from Sudan, who broke into this | :39:50. | :39:52. | |
country by walking through the Channel Tunnel has this week been | :39:53. | :39:58. | |
awarded asylum and allowed to stay here. Not only does this send an | :39:59. | :40:03. | |
appalling signal to the staff at Eurotunnel and our hard-working | :40:04. | :40:07. | |
border staff, both in this country and in France, what's the point in | :40:08. | :40:10. | |
intercepting these people if they are going to be given permission to | :40:11. | :40:17. | |
stay? It gives a green light to illegal immigrant is across the | :40:18. | :40:20. | |
world, that they might as well give it a go, because they might make | :40:21. | :40:23. | |
asylum. Can we have an urgent statement from the Home Office on | :40:24. | :40:28. | |
this matter. I understand the concerns by honourable friend makes. | :40:29. | :40:31. | |
We have Home Office questions on Monday. We are subject to | :40:32. | :40:34. | |
international rules about asylum claims, and the best way of | :40:35. | :40:37. | |
addressing those pressures is to continue the work we are doing to | :40:38. | :40:41. | |
make sure border controls in Calais are secure and I'm grateful for the | :40:42. | :40:49. | |
work the French government has done on this. It's a constant battle for | :40:50. | :40:56. | |
the border forces. Can I congratulate the leader of the house | :40:57. | :41:00. | |
on his bold leadership of the anti-European faction in the | :41:01. | :41:03. | |
government. Has he considered what all this means for the geography of | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
the house? As I understand it, if the Right Honourable member for | :41:09. | :41:12. | |
Leeds Central loyally supports his leader by disagreeing with him | :41:13. | :41:15. | |
again, he will be moved to the backbench. But in leader of the | :41:16. | :41:23. | |
house is summing up, we'll he moved from the dispatch box as to the | :41:24. | :41:28. | |
backs benches? Call me old-fashioned, but could we go back | :41:29. | :41:31. | |
to the previous practice where government ministers not agreeing | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
with the policies of their own government, they just tendered their | :41:36. | :41:42. | |
resignations. If I understand correctly, we are about to move on | :41:43. | :41:50. | |
from the days of call Nick Clegg on LBC, to the days of call Alex | :41:51. | :41:55. | |
Salmond on LBC. When he gets a call from Chris of South London, can he | :41:56. | :42:03. | |
work out whether... North London? I look forward to hearing the | :42:04. | :42:07. | |
programme. I will say that we will all have a lively debate over the | :42:08. | :42:10. | |
next few months. It's right and proper to have the debate as a | :42:11. | :42:14. | |
nation. I have to say to him, on this side of the house we are a | :42:15. | :42:18. | |
united party in government. On that side of hours we have an opposition | :42:19. | :42:20. | |
not to be in opposition. Three quarters of all pensions tax | :42:21. | :42:35. | |
relief goes to those who least needed. Can we have a debate on | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
addressing the situation and proper reform for pensions tax relief so | :42:41. | :42:47. | |
that we can benefit millions of ordinary British workers? The | :42:48. | :42:51. | |
Chancellor of the Exchequer is currently undertaking a review of | :42:52. | :42:53. | |
pension tax relief and we are pension system works. I know he has | :42:54. | :42:59. | |
great expertise in the Celia and I would urge him to discuss his views | :43:00. | :43:01. | |
with the Chancellor and make sure they go into the review. When it | :43:02. | :43:09. | |
comes to discussions of reform, there will be a chance to debate it. | :43:10. | :43:21. | |
Could we have a debate on the use of language in this house and find out | :43:22. | :43:26. | |
what the Prime Minister means when he says he's going to look into | :43:27. | :43:29. | |
something, what ministers mean when they say they will review something | :43:30. | :43:33. | |
and discussion about what is meant when someone asks a question of a | :43:34. | :43:38. | |
wanton answer to that question, not some thing completely unrelated to | :43:39. | :43:47. | |
that question. Nobody this week had accused Labour Party or the lack of | :43:48. | :43:55. | |
plain speaking. Member after member opposite has lined up to say their | :43:56. | :44:00. | |
leader is hopeless. The question is, are reactionary going to do anything | :44:01. | :44:09. | |
about it? And please have a debate on the health benefits of eating | :44:10. | :44:17. | |
black pudding? My right honourable friend will not doubt have seen | :44:18. | :44:24. | |
reports this week that those tasty delicacy is full of protein, | :44:25. | :44:29. | |
potassium, calcium, magnesium, iron and sync, so it is not only good for | :44:30. | :44:34. | |
you, it is actually a superfood and the debate will enable us to make | :44:35. | :44:40. | |
sure the benefits are more widely known. There were distinct nods of | :44:41. | :44:55. | |
approval from the deputy shadow leader but not the same view from | :44:56. | :45:04. | |
the leader. I remember working walking -- walking round market is | :45:05. | :45:08. | |
seeing black puddings and they are tasty too weak perhaps in | :45:09. | :45:15. | |
moderation. Given that 21 members stuck it out and 2:30am yesterday to | :45:16. | :45:20. | |
take part in any debate on the world's on the Welsh language | :45:21. | :45:26. | |
channel and only to receive the most land of brush of this, surely there | :45:27. | :45:30. | |
should be an opportunity to discuss and vote on the government policy of | :45:31. | :45:40. | |
milking the channel to death. Westland was broadcasting is | :45:41. | :45:46. | |
important as any changes brought forward would be a matter for | :45:47. | :45:51. | |
discussion and debate in this house. -- Welsh language broadcasting. I | :45:52. | :45:59. | |
student enquiry into it pump prices and we heard the number of | :46:00. | :46:02. | |
independent petrol retailers is reduced from 14,000 to 8600 in the | :46:03. | :46:07. | |
last decade. They said the automated car washes have been a much-needed | :46:08. | :46:14. | |
source of income for independent petrol retailers, but it is now | :46:15. | :46:20. | |
calculated that 30,000 people are now employed in the hand car washing | :46:21. | :46:25. | |
industry and the petrol retailers Association can't the Treasury could | :46:26. | :46:31. | |
be missing out on ?200 million of tax, and debate on the hand car | :46:32. | :46:38. | |
washing industry, please? There will be an opportunity to raise this at | :46:39. | :46:42. | |
Treasury questions shortly, but the important thing here is not to say, | :46:43. | :46:45. | |
we shouldn't have hand car washing of this country, but to make sure | :46:46. | :46:49. | |
that people doing it and the businesses operating at our | :46:50. | :46:54. | |
operating properly within the tax system and have legitimate right to | :46:55. | :46:57. | |
be doing the work, to make sure they don't hold back any other business. | :46:58. | :47:04. | |
This week, the Department of Justice and the United States filed a civil | :47:05. | :47:11. | |
lawsuit on behalf of the environment protection agency against Volkswagen | :47:12. | :47:16. | |
cars on behalf of the fact that 600,000 engines were basically | :47:17. | :47:19. | |
illegal because of defeat devices. It might of the fact that 30,000 | :47:20. | :47:26. | |
people in Britain die from diesel emissions, much of the contribution | :47:27. | :47:31. | |
to those extra emissions from the illegal defeat devices, what legal | :47:32. | :47:35. | |
action or the government take, in line with the Americans, against | :47:36. | :47:39. | |
Volkswagen and can we have an urgent debate on this matter? What VW did | :47:40. | :47:51. | |
was shocking and inappropriate, but prosecution decisions in this | :47:52. | :47:53. | |
country are not a matter for government, they had a matter for | :47:54. | :47:58. | |
the relevant authorities. I'm sure they will note what he has said | :47:59. | :48:02. | |
today, but it would be wrong for politicians to get directly involved | :48:03. | :48:07. | |
in prosecution decisions. Over the Christmas period, I had to | :48:08. | :48:10. | |
constituents, one Muslim and one Jewish, contact me about problems | :48:11. | :48:15. | |
they had with the out of hours coroners service. Pupil of those | :48:16. | :48:20. | |
religions need is death certificate within 24 hours to comply with their | :48:21. | :48:24. | |
religious beliefs and dispose of the body. Can we have administered come | :48:25. | :48:28. | |
and explain to the house how the government is making sure that is | :48:29. | :48:31. | |
professional across the whole of the UK to make sure there is a 24-hour | :48:32. | :48:39. | |
coroners service available to all? I am aware of the issues and | :48:40. | :48:45. | |
challenges we face in north London and the communities who live there. | :48:46. | :48:48. | |
This is an area now subject to review by the Minister of Justice | :48:49. | :48:53. | |
and I would hope they can bring forward ideas to improve the | :48:54. | :48:57. | |
situation. Can we have a debate on government time of the plight of the | :48:58. | :49:04. | |
3000 refugees living in tents near Dunkirk. 90% of people suffering | :49:05. | :49:12. | |
from scabies and 80% suffering from hypothermia. Does the leader of the | :49:13. | :49:15. | |
house think this is a people should live and does he not accept that the | :49:16. | :49:20. | |
UK Government must do more? I have a simple view on this. Firstly, we are | :49:21. | :49:24. | |
providing more support to refugees in and around Syria and any other | :49:25. | :49:30. | |
country except United States. We're taking thousands of refugees into | :49:31. | :49:35. | |
this country to provide the most honourable with the route to skip | :49:36. | :49:38. | |
that environment. But I do not believe you should be able to come | :49:39. | :49:42. | |
through France and just come into United Kingdom. If you are genuine | :49:43. | :49:48. | |
refugee, you are seeking safe haven. France is a safe haven. It is not | :49:49. | :49:53. | |
clear to me why we should throw open borders and allow people to travel | :49:54. | :49:59. | |
to the United Kingdom. Honeypot Lane Forest part of the border between my | :50:00. | :50:04. | |
constituency had a yeast and the honourable member for Brent North. | :50:05. | :50:10. | |
It is also that spider boundary BG Group read in Harrow. Brent Bader | :50:11. | :50:16. | |
has a policy to introduce a barking exclusion zone on honeypot Lane. All | :50:17. | :50:20. | |
the residents on each side have been consulted and objected. On the | :50:21. | :50:26. | |
Harrow size, there has been no consultation other than a tatty | :50:27. | :50:31. | |
notice applied to a lamp post. We have a debate in government time on | :50:32. | :50:35. | |
the implementation of controlled parking zones and the need for | :50:36. | :50:40. | |
public authorities to properly consult people before anything is | :50:41. | :50:45. | |
done. This is a matter of local controversy, maybe one were to | :50:46. | :50:48. | |
members could be working together, but in terms of the overall rules, | :50:49. | :50:52. | |
the practicalities going to have to be dealt with at a local level, but | :50:53. | :50:57. | |
you have the opportunity to argue that the duty of local authority to | :50:58. | :51:04. | |
make people aware of changes could be raised at the next local | :51:05. | :51:09. | |
government debate. On Tuesday, a Foreign Office minister told the | :51:10. | :51:11. | |
house that is no agreement on judicial Corporation between the UK | :51:12. | :51:19. | |
and Saudi governments. The Secretary of State visited Riyadh to sign a | :51:20. | :51:24. | |
memo of understanding on judicial Corporation. The government refused | :51:25. | :51:30. | |
to publish a memorandum, could we have a statement to explain the | :51:31. | :51:41. | |
stark inconsistency? There will be plenty of occasions to challenge | :51:42. | :51:53. | |
that in the coming weeks. Following the recent local government | :51:54. | :51:56. | |
settlement, Lancashire County Council will have 713 million to | :51:57. | :52:02. | |
spend, compared with 704 million this year, yet the Labour run | :52:03. | :52:06. | |
council continue to slash services and waste money, the latest example | :52:07. | :52:11. | |
being spending 6.6 million on consultants to help them identify | :52:12. | :52:15. | |
cuts they can make. In a debate on local government finance to discuss | :52:16. | :52:20. | |
the appalling way some of our local councils are being run. We have a | :52:21. | :52:26. | |
debate coming up on funding for rule all areas. It is quite noticeable at | :52:27. | :52:30. | |
Conservative councils using the challenges real face have risen to | :52:31. | :52:36. | |
the challenge is to deliver high quality services at a lower price of | :52:37. | :52:38. | |
Labour councils are struggling with the money they have got. Driven | :52:39. | :52:46. | |
grouse shoots damage wildlife, increase water pollution, increase | :52:47. | :52:51. | |
greenhouse gas emissions, increase water bills, resulted in the illegal | :52:52. | :52:57. | |
killing of Penn Harriers and shed water off the hillside, causing | :52:58. | :52:59. | |
millions of pounds of damage and floods, such as we have seen in | :53:00. | :53:03. | |
recent weeks. Could we have a debate and vote on whether to abolish | :53:04. | :53:11. | |
driven grouse shoots? We believe we should support our countryside and | :53:12. | :53:14. | |
our country traditions. Those on the other side of the house have no | :53:15. | :53:17. | |
interest in the ruble communities, no interest in the people who live | :53:18. | :53:20. | |
in those communities and every time they go there, they do gym damage to | :53:21. | :53:27. | |
those communities. -- rule all communities. -- rural communities. A | :53:28. | :53:42. | |
student at a Glasgow colleges was removed from the UK, and now his | :53:43. | :53:50. | |
home and those of his relatives have been raided by Pakistan authorities | :53:51. | :53:54. | |
and he finds himself on the run. While the government make a | :53:55. | :53:59. | |
statement or a lover debate on government time and deportation and | :54:00. | :54:03. | |
government removal orders and how we arrange a safe passage back to UK | :54:04. | :54:08. | |
for those people served with those orders? I don't the details of the | :54:09. | :54:13. | |
case, the Home Secretary will be fewer on Monday to answer questions. | :54:14. | :54:16. | |
We have to provide a fair balance in this country be June providing a | :54:17. | :54:23. | |
refuge for people who are genuinely fleeing persecution, but we can't | :54:24. | :54:28. | |
provide an open door for everyone. In the last eight days, we have seen | :54:29. | :54:32. | |
a Chinese government to value its own currency and intervene | :54:33. | :54:39. | |
aggressively on its own manufacturing business. Can we have | :54:40. | :54:42. | |
a statement from the government on why they are supporting Chinese | :54:43. | :54:47. | |
manufacturing, given the amount of steel which is flooding the UK | :54:48. | :54:54. | |
market. We have Treasury questions coming up shortly and the | :54:55. | :54:57. | |
opportunity will be there to question the Chancellor. It is right | :54:58. | :55:00. | |
and proper to maintain close ties with China, which is shaping up to | :55:01. | :55:03. | |
be the world's biggest economy for this century. | :55:04. | :55:18. | |
Many of my constituents have lost Motability vehicles only to have | :55:19. | :55:25. | |
them restored at a later date on subsequent appeal, but causing a | :55:26. | :55:29. | |
huge amount of distress, a real sense of isolation. Motability is an | :55:30. | :55:36. | |
important scheme and indeed, the welfare support we provide to people | :55:37. | :55:41. | |
who face disability challenges is very important, but it is right and | :55:42. | :55:44. | |
proper that we have gateways in place. One of the reasons we change | :55:45. | :55:47. | |
the system was that a large number of people who were receiving at an | :55:48. | :56:01. | |
allowance or not the people who really needed it. In a statement | :56:02. | :56:07. | |
from piling minister and carbon reduction and building regulations, | :56:08. | :56:10. | |
given that it is clear to all but ministers that it is more | :56:11. | :56:16. | |
cost-effective to integrate solar power on buildings at the | :56:17. | :56:20. | |
construction stage, both the Greater London authority and the Scottish | :56:21. | :56:24. | |
Government have improved their building regulations in this | :56:25. | :56:27. | |
respect. Isn't it time that the rest of the United Kingdom followed suit? | :56:28. | :56:35. | |
I think we have a wreckage and government second to none and | :56:36. | :56:37. | |
encouraging the growth of pupils in this country. In the last year, we | :56:38. | :56:42. | |
have seen the level of electricity generated by renewables rise by 25%. | :56:43. | :56:49. | |
But in the end, there has to be a degree of flexibility for builders | :56:50. | :56:53. | |
to decide what products they actually build. | :56:54. | :57:05. | |
During our enquiry, received evidence from industry experts that | :57:06. | :57:10. | |
manufacturers were treating the safety regulations in order to get | :57:11. | :57:14. | |
around them. Is it not the case that we now need a debate in this house | :57:15. | :57:18. | |
on the regulation of cars and other vehicles on the road as far as | :57:19. | :57:22. | |
software that is concerned and cheating devices used for emissions, | :57:23. | :57:27. | |
because the list of countries taking action across the world is getting | :57:28. | :57:30. | |
longer, and the UK Government's silence is getting more definite. -- | :57:31. | :57:50. | |
If he feels the need to bring the matter to this house it should talk | :57:51. | :57:57. | |
to the chair of the backbench business committee. If the EU was to | :57:58. | :58:05. | |
confirm the status of coming is China, it would have a detrimental | :58:06. | :58:09. | |
effect on UK steel jobs. Could we have a statement in this house to | :58:10. | :58:13. | |
update us on discussions in Europe on this matter and UK Government | :58:14. | :58:17. | |
position? He will have that opportunity on Tuesday because the | :58:18. | :58:22. | |
Foreign Secretary will take questions and I encourage him to put | :58:23. | :58:25. | |
the point to the Foreign Secretary. We are long overdue a debate on the | :58:26. | :58:31. | |
Parliamentary and health service ombudsman. We have a nonsensical | :58:32. | :58:35. | |
situation where it's supposed to be the ombudsman for Parliament and | :58:36. | :58:39. | |
parliamentarians, but the system can only be changed if the government | :58:40. | :58:41. | |
decides to bring forward legislation. Bollettieri 's in this | :58:42. | :58:47. | |
house must have decisions on where the optimum instruction and | :58:48. | :58:53. | |
ombudsman without fearing interference from government. In | :58:54. | :58:59. | |
maybe the backbench business committee is the right way to test | :59:00. | :59:05. | |
the views of this house and see how the people share his opinions. There | :59:06. | :59:08. | |
is a matter of debate about the future of the ombudsman, how it's | :59:09. | :59:11. | |
structured and how it works. I expect to see it debated in the | :59:12. | :59:18. | |
coming months. We know this house relies on convention and following | :59:19. | :59:21. | |
on from the comments from the Right Honourable friend from Gordon, can I | :59:22. | :59:26. | |
get a statement from the leader of the house to explain his | :59:27. | :59:29. | |
understanding of collective carbon at responsibility, and what has to | :59:30. | :59:34. | |
happen for Cabinet members who disagree with policy and how does | :59:35. | :59:39. | |
that compare with a weak Prime Minister who will allow his | :59:40. | :59:42. | |
ministers to campaign against his own viewpoint? We have a grown-up | :59:43. | :59:48. | |
approach to politics on this side of the house. We will have a great | :59:49. | :59:51. | |
national debate and the primers that has set out his position. Looking at | :59:52. | :59:57. | |
the party opposite, and I don't blame the Scottish Nationalists for | :59:58. | :00:01. | |
this, and they looked at the vote on Syria, a free vote, and those who | :00:02. | :00:10. | |
spoke out against the leader were sacked. We come to the backbench | :00:11. | :00:14. | |
motion on the effect of the equalisation of the state pension | :00:15. | :00:20. | |
age on women. To move the motion, I call Mhairi Black. I beg to move the | :00:21. | :00:29. | |
motion on the order paper. I want to thank the backbench committee for | :00:30. | :00:33. | |
giving us the time to debate this important issue. I especially want | :00:34. | :00:40. | |
to take the time to thank the women of age inequality team. Pensions are | :00:41. | :00:46. | |
obligated, as you can imagine, but these ordinary women have managed to | :00:47. | :00:49. | |
take the time to sift through all this information and have come up | :00:50. | :00:53. | |
and drafted one of the most comprehensive and articulate | :00:54. | :00:56. | |
briefings I have seen since I was elected. I want to thank them for | :00:57. | :01:02. | |
articulating that argument so well. It's precisely because pensions are | :01:03. | :01:05. | |
so, the gated that I think it's important... -- are so complicated. | :01:06. | :01:15. | |
The honourable member makes an important starting statement given | :01:16. | :01:18. | |
the pensions minister has admitted he made a bad decision based on | :01:19. | :01:24. | |
inadequate briefing. Former pensions minister, sorry. Is it not therefore | :01:25. | :01:29. | |
only right that the house considers this decision today and takes it | :01:30. | :01:33. | |
seriously in terms of making the absolute right decision with the | :01:34. | :01:38. | |
right information before it? I think that's why this bait is so important | :01:39. | :01:42. | |
and we should call on the government to act. I think because pensions are | :01:43. | :01:48. | |
so come placated, it's important not just for the benefit of members or | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
people in the gallery of people watching at home, it's important to | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
try to explain why these women have found themselves in a position they | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
have done. To do so we have to go back to 1995 when the pension act | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
increased the female state pension age from 60 to 65. The purpose of | :02:05. | :02:10. | |
this was to equalise the pension age so women were retiring at the same | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
age as men. That's fair enough, it makes sense, and I don't think | :02:15. | :02:17. | |
anyone would disagree with that principle. The Turner commission | :02:18. | :02:22. | |
recommended that the 15 years notice should be given to individuals if | :02:23. | :02:25. | |
their pension arrangements are going to change in order to give them | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
adequate time to respond appropriately. The 1995 act | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
technically didn't do that. Equalisation, the changes were not | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
to be brought in until 2010, and that would technically give women 15 | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
years notice, but the problem is, nobody knew about it. The reality is | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
that less than half of women knew this would affect them as late as | :02:48. | :02:53. | |
2008. The National Centre for social research stated that in 2011 only | :02:54. | :02:57. | |
43% of women were aware of the plans change. I'm grateful to the | :02:58. | :03:04. | |
honourable lady for giving way, and she makes an important point about | :03:05. | :03:10. | |
people not being aware. It seems people on the front benches are not | :03:11. | :03:13. | |
aware. There is not an equalities minister here, not even the DWP | :03:14. | :03:22. | |
ministers are here. It's noticeable that it's a pity how few | :03:23. | :03:26. | |
Conservatives have turned out. It's important to highlight that not a | :03:27. | :03:29. | |
single letter was sent out by the government to women. There was no | :03:30. | :03:34. | |
official correspondence between the government and the individuals | :03:35. | :03:36. | |
affected alerting them to the changes that would happen to them. | :03:37. | :03:40. | |
Even previous pensions Minister Steve Webster realised that not | :03:41. | :03:46. | |
everybody knew what had happened in the 1995 act. They freed of | :03:47. | :03:57. | |
information application says that information was disbursed between | :03:58. | :04:02. | |
2009 and 2013, 14 years after the act. Women were not notified by | :04:03. | :04:10. | |
anyone official until 14 years after the regulations came in. 14 years | :04:11. | :04:19. | |
less to prepare. She is making an important point, but isn't the | :04:20. | :04:22. | |
injustice to this set of women, this in a knot shell, they haven't just | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
had one change to the pension age, they've had two and the process has | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
been accelerated and there is no transitional arrangements in place. | :04:33. | :04:38. | |
Isn't that the real unfairness here? To go back to the correspondence | :04:39. | :04:44. | |
between the government... On you go. Thank you for giving way. I have a | :04:45. | :04:48. | |
great deal of sympathy with what she is saying, and would she accept that | :04:49. | :04:52. | |
the need for equalisation is generally accepted, and is right and | :04:53. | :04:55. | |
proper, would she perhaps consider that it would be sensible to urge | :04:56. | :05:01. | |
the government to look at the sort of transition arrangements that were | :05:02. | :05:04. | |
made with public sector pensions reform, where there was some 10-15 | :05:05. | :05:09. | |
year arrangements? Would that be instructive going forward? As I said | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
at the beginning, I don't think anybody in here has the problem with | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
the principle of the transition to equality. In this instance we are | :05:19. | :05:24. | |
talking about women's pensions, so it's important to bring it back to | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
that. The fact of the matter is that multiple constituents who have | :05:30. | :05:31. | |
written to me have said that from the letters they did receive, the | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
information was conflicting. They were getting different information. | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
In one case, a constituent of mine had been told they had enough | :05:41. | :05:44. | |
contributions to receive a full date pension at 60, which was only a few | :05:45. | :05:48. | |
months away, only to receive a further letter three weeks later | :05:49. | :05:51. | |
telling her that in actual fact she would not get her pension until she | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
was nearly 66. Many of the letters did not even reach the people they | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
were supposed to. Some were told by MPs and ministers they must have | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
given the DWP the wrong addresses. The reality is that these women have | :06:04. | :06:06. | |
been living in the same house for many years. They have been living in | :06:07. | :06:14. | |
these houses for over 20 years, so I find that difficult to believe. Some | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
people say you shouldn't have to be written to, it's your pension and | :06:19. | :06:21. | |
you should keep an eye on it, look out for the reports and take | :06:22. | :06:24. | |
responsible to. But when giving evidence to the work and pensions | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
committee, a financial journalist told us that after researching this | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
himself, he could barely find any reporting of the issue at all in | :06:33. | :06:38. | |
1995. There were very few small press cuttings in the business pages | :06:39. | :06:43. | |
at the back of some newspapers. Another Freedom of Information Act | :06:44. | :06:46. | |
states that the government funded "Broader awareness campaigns goes | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
good which ran in ways between 2001 and 2004. These campaigns did not | :06:52. | :06:59. | |
focus on equalisation in particular. In fact, one of the press adverts in | :07:00. | :07:03. | |
these campaigns were focused on this issue. One press cutting, roughly | :07:04. | :07:08. | |
seven years after it had been passed into law. The whole thing clearly | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
became a total mess. That's quite evident. I don't know whether it | :07:13. | :07:18. | |
wasn't reported deliberately, for political reasons, fear of | :07:19. | :07:21. | |
ramification. I don't know if it was a genuine accident, I do not know. | :07:22. | :07:25. | |
But I know women were not notified and it wasn't reported and they were | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
not given enough time to make appropriate arrangements. That | :07:30. | :07:32. | |
brings us onto the pension act of 2007. It increased the equalised SBA | :07:33. | :07:40. | |
from 65 to 66 between 2024 and 26, giving all that affected people | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
effectively 17 years notice. That's fair enough, but then we come to | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
what my colleague has mentioned, the pensions act of 2011. That came | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
along and said, forget 17 years notice, we will rush it through. We | :07:56. | :08:01. | |
need to do it now. The 2011 act accelerated pension age for women, | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
the subsequent age increase from six V6 from October 2016 onwards, | :08:07. | :08:11. | |
meaning affected women had only five years notice to remedy life plans | :08:12. | :08:18. | |
that had been in place for years. She's making an excellent speech and | :08:19. | :08:21. | |
I welcome the debate she has brought to the house. Would she agree with | :08:22. | :08:26. | |
me that many of these women, had a lifetime of low and unequal pay to | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
men, lower than they should be getting. They would have had broken | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
careers, because they may have brought up children. They may have | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
separated, got divorced, and the whole life plan has been disrupted, | :08:41. | :08:43. | |
destroyed and impoverished by these awful changes. I couldn't agree more | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
with what the honourable gentleman said, something I will touch on | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
later. Referring back to the 2011 act, it made women have to wait an | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
extra year or year and a half to claim a state pension. We have to | :08:59. | :09:01. | |
remember and take it in the context that women did not know about the | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
initial 1995 act. We have a situation where a whole host of | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
women read about the 2011 act, thought they would have to do work | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
extra two years, make the plans, and then figure out, I working to line | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
six D6. Where did that come from? A host of women have been given a | :09:20. | :09:25. | |
double whammy. -- have to work until I'm 66. The Conservative ethos is to | :09:26. | :09:32. | |
encourage independence and responsible choice, but how can that | :09:33. | :09:36. | |
happen if you don't give people the time to make responsible choices? By | :09:37. | :09:44. | |
continuing this policy... Hold on a second... No, I'm right! The | :09:45. | :09:52. | |
government is to liberally placing another burden on women who have | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
orally had to deal with the consequences of an act passed 21 | :09:57. | :09:59. | |
years ago they have only found out about now. To put that in context, | :10:00. | :10:06. | |
I'm 21, this is how old it is. One of my constituents told me she began | :10:07. | :10:10. | |
working at 17, and she chose to pay the full rate of national insurance | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
on the basis she would retire at 60. Other options were available to her, | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
but you said you wanted to retire at 60, so she paid the price through | :10:20. | :10:22. | |
national insurance her whole working life. She put it in a way that I | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
think is good and accurate to describe what is happening, because | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
she's found out she is not retiring until six D6. He says the coalition | :10:31. | :10:34. | |
and this present government have stripped as Oz of pensions -- | :10:35. | :10:46. | |
stripped us of pensions. Pensions are not a benefit, they are a | :10:47. | :10:50. | |
contract. People enter into them, on the basis that if they pay extra | :10:51. | :10:53. | |
amount of national insurance, they will receive why at a certain age. | :10:54. | :11:02. | |
Is this same case as my constituent who at 57 and a half realised she | :11:03. | :11:08. | |
would no longer be able to retire at 60. She's a care worker doing an | :11:09. | :11:11. | |
extremely physically demanding job, and now has to work until the age of | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
66. She has low income throughout life, working as a care worker, and | :11:17. | :11:20. | |
now has to carry on this demanding job for a further six years. I think | :11:21. | :11:27. | |
every member in here, if they got in contact with their constituents | :11:28. | :11:30. | |
would recognise this is a problem that spreads across the whole of the | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
UK and affects women of all classes, backgrounds and jobs. In criminal | :11:35. | :11:40. | |
law, if we want to send a prisoner to jail, it has to be agreed | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
beforehand how long that person is going away for. If that changes, | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
there are appropriate measures to deal with that. In civil law, if we | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
enter into a contract, there are terms and conditions that say if you | :11:54. | :11:56. | |
want to change the contract, break out of it, there is a price to pay. | :11:57. | :11:59. | |
Why pensions any different? deafening this is a contract people | :12:00. | :12:09. | |
have entered into and it is now being broken. These women have done | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
exactly what was asked of them. They have worked hard all their lives, a | :12:15. | :12:20. | |
bigger national insurance. If the government chooses to continue with | :12:21. | :12:26. | |
this policy, it completely ignores the years of genuine inequality | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
these women have lived through. Another constituent of mine explains | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
she worked until her children came along. A husband could no longer | :12:35. | :12:37. | |
work due to disability. She was determined not to depend on the | :12:38. | :12:43. | |
benefits, so she studied, she became a primary school teacher. She cured | :12:44. | :12:49. | |
her husband and she has never claimed anything, but she has based | :12:50. | :12:53. | |
whole carb ones around a retirement age of 60. She has now found out she | :12:54. | :13:00. | |
cannot retire until she was 66. Unpaid carers are the unsung heroes | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
of our economy. They have saved the state and absolute fortune, time and | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
time again. Sadly, we come from a society where women have had to live | :13:11. | :13:16. | |
with gender roles where the vast majority of unpaid carers are women. | :13:17. | :13:21. | |
That is a type of people this policy is hitting. It's hitting the kind of | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
people who can't afford to go six years without any care or attention. | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
Some women are being left penniless. They have nothing and I been forced | :13:31. | :13:34. | |
to turn to the state for benefits. How does that fit into the logic of | :13:35. | :13:41. | |
reducing public spending? The government will see that women will | :13:42. | :13:44. | |
do better under the new single tier state pension, but we have the | :13:45. | :13:49. | |
existence of a campaign, a collection against you inequality of | :13:50. | :13:56. | |
the state pension. This is a collection of women pointing out | :13:57. | :13:59. | |
another issue, which is you only receive the higher rate of the new | :14:00. | :14:04. | |
pension if you have paid 35 years of national insurance. Many women | :14:05. | :14:08. | |
haven't had the chance to build up that level. It is a separate issue, | :14:09. | :14:14. | |
but I made it to raise awareness and in the hope that it will earn a | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
debate in its own merit. The government has said the policy | :14:19. | :14:21. | |
decision to increase women's state pension age is designed to remove | :14:22. | :14:25. | |
the inequality between men and women. That is a strange definition | :14:26. | :14:33. | |
of equality, if I being shafted and short-changed because of the fact | :14:34. | :14:40. | |
that I am a woman. That's not my definition of equality. There are | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
two problems at the heart of this. First is that the communication that | :14:46. | :14:51. | |
has happened throughout the years. I accept that mistakes have been made | :14:52. | :14:56. | |
and we need to make sure they are not repeated. But in the 2011 act, | :14:57. | :15:02. | |
the rapid changes this government have made, that is something we can | :15:03. | :15:07. | |
do something about. Unlike most things come from this government, I | :15:08. | :15:12. | |
don't believe this policy is vindictive, I don't believe it's | :15:13. | :15:14. | |
done in the knowledge that it will hurt people, I genuinely think we | :15:15. | :15:20. | |
ended up in the situation because of mistake after mistake and we found | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
ourselves in this position. Any mess can be cleared up. This policy does | :15:26. | :15:29. | |
continue in the full knowledge of everything that has been outlined, | :15:30. | :15:34. | |
then it will become vindictive. It will become deliberate and it will | :15:35. | :15:37. | |
be done in full knowledge that people will be heart. I understand | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
that we have to work in tandem and work with responsibility when it | :15:43. | :15:46. | |
comes to the economy, but not by punishing people who are about to | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
retire. Every topic we speak about comes down to where will you find | :15:52. | :15:55. | |
the money, and the answer is or was austerity, now matter how brittle. | :15:56. | :16:00. | |
Since I was elected, we have had a go at people on low wages, ago at | :16:01. | :16:04. | |
the disabled, we have had a go at women, now were having a go at | :16:05. | :16:10. | |
pensioners. We can afford to send it strikes into Syria, we can afford to | :16:11. | :16:14. | |
pay for nuclear weapons, but we can't afford to look after our | :16:15. | :16:19. | |
pensioners? I just don't buy it. Women who are setting up a Nat | :16:20. | :16:23. | |
Gallery right now, they did not cause the financial crash, they did | :16:24. | :16:28. | |
not cause the state of the economy and they did not make the | :16:29. | :16:31. | |
irresponsible decisions that have got us here. I fully understand the | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
question, where will you find the money, but I refuse to accept | :16:36. | :16:39. | |
believe that it has become out of the pensions of older women. The | :16:40. | :16:49. | |
question is as on the order paper, there will be a six minute limit on | :16:50. | :16:58. | |
each backbench speech. Can I congratulate her work leading on | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
this debate today? There is an extraordinary turnout and it shows | :17:03. | :17:06. | |
what a considerable interest that is for all members of this house. I | :17:07. | :17:12. | |
became involved in this campaign by accident. I was approached by | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
several constituents, who said they were going to be disadvantaged by | :17:17. | :17:20. | |
this. None of us really realise the extent of the hundreds of thousands | :17:21. | :17:26. | |
of women who stand to be treated disproportionately unfurling. I went | :17:27. | :17:31. | |
along to the Westminster Hall debate led by Lady Eccles. I expressed my | :17:32. | :17:36. | |
sympathies and I recorded a short podcast on the subject, which has | :17:37. | :17:44. | |
now been followed by 145,000 people, many of whom have written to me | :17:45. | :17:50. | |
about it. I will be judged it to the campaign, who have articulated the | :17:51. | :17:54. | |
case so well, the petition has now been signed by 103,000 people, and | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
to thank them for the help and support they have given me in | :18:00. | :18:03. | |
selling non-constituents to write to the lawn MPs, rather than writing to | :18:04. | :18:06. | |
me, for which I am exceedingly grateful. With the equalisation of | :18:07. | :18:12. | |
the pension age, we all agree with that, but then are large sums of | :18:13. | :18:15. | |
money involved in this sand that are difficult decisions that have to be | :18:16. | :18:20. | |
made. But it is important that the role of fairness is applied as much | :18:21. | :18:23. | |
as possible and it is clear that a sizeable group of women seem to be | :18:24. | :18:28. | |
wearing the brunt of these changes disproportionately. He is making an | :18:29. | :18:39. | |
important speech. I would ask him, when he is talking about fairness, | :18:40. | :18:45. | |
if he realises how this feels, the woman of my generation who all | :18:46. | :18:48. | |
everything to those women who were born in the 50s, who fought for the | :18:49. | :18:53. | |
equal pay act and for all the advantages that have given us any | :18:54. | :18:58. | |
chance. Does he feel that I'm fairness to those women as I do? I | :18:59. | :19:02. | |
have had representations from constituents who women low paid jobs | :19:03. | :19:08. | |
with huge caring responsibilities for children and other family | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
members, where they didn't have access to free childcare and other | :19:13. | :19:16. | |
things, and we have them to thank for that, yet it is those people, | :19:17. | :19:19. | |
for whom I think there has now been a breach of trust with those changes | :19:20. | :19:25. | |
affecting them disproportionately. I don't think we will be fulfilling | :19:26. | :19:31. | |
our duty of care for them. I very much agree with everything he's | :19:32. | :19:36. | |
saying. But he also concede that the other pension forms, we were anxious | :19:37. | :19:41. | |
to make sure there was protection for those unable to choose | :19:42. | :19:47. | |
circumstances, and Beth operates unfairly on people who have worked | :19:48. | :19:53. | |
all their lives but are unable to return to work because of medical | :19:54. | :19:57. | |
conditions. Satisfy fairness these to be applied to everybody and in | :19:58. | :20:00. | |
this case, there is a core water women who are not being treated | :20:01. | :20:06. | |
fairly. Our pension system is funded on the contributory principle, this | :20:07. | :20:13. | |
is not a state benefit for which no contribution is involved. Yet, this | :20:14. | :20:17. | |
group of women who have been paying contributions in good faith, face | :20:18. | :20:22. | |
being short-changed retrospectively. That many other factors be a | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
reminder. Fewer than one in four women who qualify for the state | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
pension next year will get the full amount. Fuel women than men will | :20:32. | :20:38. | |
qualify. Women are significantly more likely to work part-time and | :20:39. | :20:42. | |
for long periods of lives, largely driven by caring roles, they're | :20:43. | :20:49. | |
there for ten to have less tension. I welcome the fact that the new | :20:50. | :20:53. | |
single tier pension will recognise periods of time spent caring and | :20:54. | :20:59. | |
that will help in the future. I acknowledge the government made | :21:00. | :21:02. | |
progress in shrinking the gender pay gap, and that is no consultation on | :21:03. | :21:07. | |
this. Progress has been made, with more women in work. There have been | :21:08. | :21:14. | |
lots of generous reforms about entitlement to childcare and the | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
National living wage. But these are all too late for the generation of | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
women who worked without those advantages and bringing up their | :21:24. | :21:30. | |
families. Many of them now have appealing responsibilities were | :21:31. | :21:31. | |
grandchildren as well as having to hold down part-time jobs. I would | :21:32. | :21:39. | |
give way now, because of our so many people who want to speak. It is | :21:40. | :21:43. | |
right that the rise in pension age should reflect growing life | :21:44. | :21:45. | |
expectancy, but studies show that life expectancy for women fell in | :21:46. | :21:54. | |
2012, while the usual men continue to rise. There are discrepancies for | :21:55. | :22:00. | |
those who are the Buddhist and society. They're the ones most | :22:01. | :22:05. | |
reliable on the state pension and therefore most vulnerable to pension | :22:06. | :22:16. | |
changes. Where they given proper and adequate notice? We all agree that | :22:17. | :22:20. | |
didn't happen. The money expert Paul Lewis, who has helped this campaign, | :22:21. | :22:26. | |
has detailed how little noticed someone and received. Approximately | :22:27. | :22:32. | |
650,000 worst affected were only listened to in February 2012, which | :22:33. | :22:37. | |
means they got the letters between the ages of 57 and 59 that there | :22:38. | :22:43. | |
pension age would not be 60. Some received no notification at all. | :22:44. | :22:49. | |
Precious little time to make alternative arrangements, even if | :22:50. | :22:51. | |
they could afford to. That didn't happen now, because of changes to | :22:52. | :22:59. | |
the state pension review. But as one of my constituents pointed out, a | :23:00. | :23:06. | |
very important point is that if one considers what if ten or 15 years | :23:07. | :23:10. | |
notice had been given, for women like ourselves who are low earners, | :23:11. | :23:16. | |
they would not have had enough to pay into private pension on top of | :23:17. | :23:20. | |
their contributions to national insurance. But this in perspective. | :23:21. | :23:25. | |
In order to save enough into private pension for ?6,000 a year, you're | :23:26. | :23:32. | |
looking at ?100,000. This is why, for low-paid people, the national | :23:33. | :23:35. | |
insurance contributions are all the can afford and consequently totally | :23:36. | :23:41. | |
depend on. So ten years notice is not enough time to pay enterprise at | :23:42. | :23:44. | |
pension that the diesel the state pension. What she suggests is the | :23:45. | :23:48. | |
reintroduction of pension credits, which is means tested and would | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
alleviate the strain for those who find themselves in this position. | :23:53. | :23:57. | |
This would let those who are genuinely hit the hardest out of | :23:58. | :24:01. | |
extreme poverty. That is a consideration I would ask the | :24:02. | :24:09. | |
Minister to consider. It's difficult for many older women to stay in the | :24:10. | :24:15. | |
workplace back into the workplace. In any case, rates for unemployment | :24:16. | :24:21. | |
for women over 50 are well above the national average. The gender pay gap | :24:22. | :24:25. | |
is at its worst for women in their 50s, exactly the sort of women we're | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
talking about here. Recent comments from Steve Webb strongly indicate he | :24:31. | :24:35. | |
acknowledged the DWP were at fault and failing to provide adequate | :24:36. | :24:40. | |
notice of women affected, when he made a fuss of negotiating a | :24:41. | :24:43. | |
concession of six months at the time, and that has been compounded | :24:44. | :24:48. | |
by his comments that the government made a fair decision. During | :24:49. | :24:51. | |
previous debates, when the last changes were made, the Minister | :24:52. | :24:55. | |
gives strong indications then that transition arrangement would be made | :24:56. | :24:58. | |
for the worst affected, yet that has not happened. Why not and can the | :24:59. | :25:03. | |
Minister please revisit that undertaking? I received many e-mails | :25:04. | :25:09. | |
from around the country and from my own constituents. Let me finish with | :25:10. | :25:16. | |
the closing paragraph of a letter from a woman in Worthing. I also | :25:17. | :25:21. | |
heard some MPs say that older women should downsize their houses to free | :25:22. | :25:27. | |
opposing stock for younger families. I did this, but we are quickly using | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
up any money we made for normal day-to-day expenses. It seems that | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
we all do women are considered unimportant and not worth the | :25:37. | :25:38. | |
financial support we have earned over the years. I believe we had at | :25:39. | :25:43. | |
risk of a breach of trust to those women who have made many sacrifices | :25:44. | :25:46. | |
and are not getting the retirement the domains they would. -- the | :25:47. | :25:57. | |
retirement they believed they would. Could I join in congratulating the | :25:58. | :26:04. | |
Honourable lady first of all for securing this important debate and | :26:05. | :26:08. | |
secondly by the forceful way in which she put the case, and she was | :26:09. | :26:14. | |
indeed backed up by the speech of the honourable gentleman from East | :26:15. | :26:20. | |
Worthing and Shoreham. I just want to make two points by way of | :26:21. | :26:29. | |
introduction. The first is to also congratulate Women Against State | :26:30. | :26:35. | |
Pension Inequality for the powerful way they have booked this case and | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
conducted their campaign. Secondly, I want to say there is a basic and | :26:40. | :26:45. | |
fairness about this problem that does need to be addressed. Into the | :26:46. | :26:55. | |
bargain, there is a broken promise or a broken contract, as she | :26:56. | :27:00. | |
described it, between the state and these women, who are affected. | :27:01. | :27:14. | |
I have a letter from a constituent, and I would like to use her words as | :27:15. | :27:23. | |
much as possible, somebody who has been directly affected by it. The | :27:24. | :27:29. | |
point she makes of have already been reflected by the speeches so far but | :27:30. | :27:33. | |
they bear repetition in her words. The first point she makes was that | :27:34. | :27:39. | |
she was given inadequate notice and communication regarding the age | :27:40. | :27:44. | |
change. She received less than four years, instead of the recommended | :27:45. | :27:49. | |
10-15 years. This has had a disastrous consequence on the | :27:50. | :27:51. | |
important financial and life changing decisions I made in | :27:52. | :27:56. | |
anticipation of my retirement at 60 and the receipt of a state pension. | :27:57. | :28:05. | |
I will give way, yes. I'm sure, like me, he's had a number of women make | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
representation to him, and one particular case I had on Monday | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
changed her life for the worse. This is discrimination against women. | :28:15. | :28:20. | |
Would you agree? I was going to come onto that very point. The second | :28:21. | :28:27. | |
point she makes is that she was hit by two pension age increases. First | :28:28. | :28:32. | |
to six D5, and in rapid succession, to 66, resulting in the loss of over | :28:33. | :28:45. | |
?35,000. -- first to 65. The final point she wanted to make, she's no | :28:46. | :28:50. | |
longer eligible to receive the old state pension into which she paid | :28:51. | :28:53. | |
full contributions for than 40 years. She will not receive a full | :28:54. | :29:01. | |
state pension because of the shortfall of contributions between | :29:02. | :29:07. | |
60 and 66. The fact that she wanted to retire at 60, she had paid more | :29:08. | :29:11. | |
than 39 years of contributions required for the full state pension | :29:12. | :29:18. | |
at that time. I will give way to the Right Honourable gentleman. This is | :29:19. | :29:24. | |
a crucial debate, not least of all for my constituents, Jackie Williams | :29:25. | :29:28. | |
and Debbie Watkins, active in the campaign. My right honourable friend | :29:29. | :29:33. | |
might be pleased to know that the minister responsible for this issue | :29:34. | :29:36. | |
says the reason she can't carry out the terms of this motion is because | :29:37. | :29:43. | |
it would be impossible. She was a very effective advocate of pensions | :29:44. | :29:50. | |
issues when I was the Work and Pensions Secretary. When we were | :29:51. | :29:54. | |
arguing that pension credit and the protection fund we had introduced | :29:55. | :29:59. | |
should not be applied retrospectively, as she wished, I | :30:00. | :30:02. | |
said it was impossible. She said to me that that word didn't... Order, | :30:03. | :30:14. | |
Mr Johnson, we are in a very tight time limit. Short interventions so | :30:15. | :30:23. | |
nobody drops off the list. My right honourable friend brings a wealth of | :30:24. | :30:28. | |
experience and understanding in this subject in the contribution he has | :30:29. | :30:31. | |
just made, and I'm very rate fall for it, lengthy though it may have | :30:32. | :30:42. | |
been. -- very grateful for it. If I can continue the quote I was midway | :30:43. | :30:48. | |
through from my constituent, she goes on to say that this requirement | :30:49. | :30:53. | |
has been reduced to 30 years, to be faced with an overpayment in the | :30:54. | :30:59. | |
old-age pension requirements of ten years contributions which are no | :31:00. | :31:01. | |
longer eligible for, to have a shortfall of six years on the new | :31:02. | :31:07. | |
pension requirements is beyond belief. I want to conclude with two | :31:08. | :31:16. | |
further points. The first is to quote from my constituent, who says | :31:17. | :31:21. | |
that... And I think this is why the campaign has been so reasonable, and | :31:22. | :31:27. | |
she reflects that. She says, I understand that the equalisation of | :31:28. | :31:30. | |
state pension had to be addressed, but I object to the fairway in which | :31:31. | :31:39. | |
this was handled, bringing more inequality into the process. Future | :31:40. | :31:43. | |
generations will be given ten years notice on age changes. Whereas I and | :31:44. | :31:47. | |
many like me were not. All I'm requesting, she says, is | :31:48. | :31:53. | |
transitional protective arrangement be provided for the 1950s women | :31:54. | :32:00. | |
affected by these changes. Of course, every government has to look | :32:01. | :32:04. | |
to the financial situation and make proper arrangements and I understand | :32:05. | :32:09. | |
the economic difficulties any government has to face. But, as I | :32:10. | :32:17. | |
started out to say, this is... I can't give way any more, but this is | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
a basic question of, firstly inequality, and secondly, | :32:23. | :32:28. | |
unfairness. I think this has to be addressed. I do hope the minister | :32:29. | :32:32. | |
will understand the strength of feeling that exists out there from | :32:33. | :32:36. | |
those affected, but also in this house. We feel there is an | :32:37. | :32:41. | |
injustice, and all injustices have to be put right, just as this should | :32:42. | :32:49. | |
be. I would like to join as well with the honourable member for | :32:50. | :32:52. | |
Knowsley, a great pleasure to follow him in this debate. And plays the | :32:53. | :32:59. | |
reasonableness of the campaign. I've had several campaigners in my | :33:00. | :33:03. | |
constituency offices, and they put their arguments in a very cogent, | :33:04. | :33:07. | |
respectful and thoughtful manner. Since 2010 this government has been | :33:08. | :33:11. | |
taking the difficult decisions necessary to get Britain's deficit | :33:12. | :33:14. | |
under control. This has often been contentious, involving disagreements | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
with the party opposite. However, pensions have been one area in which | :33:20. | :33:28. | |
all members of the house were in agreement over. For more than a | :33:29. | :33:32. | |
decade, MPs of all parties have worked together to challenge the | :33:33. | :33:37. | |
problems posed by an ageing population, and ensure the long-term | :33:38. | :33:40. | |
financial security of elderly people. This consensual politics, | :33:41. | :33:46. | |
quite unusual, I have to say, has been necessary and heartening in | :33:47. | :33:49. | |
dealing with a long-term issue. It's no secret that the current pension | :33:50. | :33:55. | |
state arrangements are not financially sustainable. People are | :33:56. | :33:59. | |
living longer than ever. A teenager today can expect to live until 90. | :34:00. | :34:06. | |
It imposes serious burdens on welfare system is designed in | :34:07. | :34:09. | |
another age. In the last parliament the government estimated the cost of | :34:10. | :34:13. | |
abandoning state pension reforms is completely unaffordable at ?23 | :34:14. | :34:19. | |
billion. Equivalent to 7p on income tax. As much as this debate focuses | :34:20. | :34:25. | |
on the impact on women, we should reflect on how much this government | :34:26. | :34:28. | |
has done to improve the position of women within the pension system. I | :34:29. | :34:34. | |
will give way. Before the honourable gentleman says it's OK, would he | :34:35. | :34:40. | |
like to hear the experience of my constituent who says, I have worked | :34:41. | :34:44. | |
full time since leaving school at 16. I now 61. I have worked through | :34:45. | :34:50. | |
10-year is of kidney failure, dialysis, and finally a transplant, | :34:51. | :34:54. | |
but the effects of the illness have taken their toll. I cannot afford to | :34:55. | :34:58. | |
retire without a state pension, so I have another five years of my | :34:59. | :35:03. | |
current life to look forward to, assuming my kidney doesn't fail or I | :35:04. | :35:07. | |
die of something else. Surely that level of hardship is unacceptable. I | :35:08. | :35:13. | |
feel you are putting words in my mouth by saying that I said | :35:14. | :35:16. | |
everything is OK. But you were a member of the party opposite in | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
government from 1997 to 2010, and if there is anything about them in | :35:22. | :35:26. | |
terms of publicising these particular changes, I think they | :35:27. | :35:29. | |
ought to look to themselves in this respect. In a motion before this | :35:30. | :35:35. | |
house, it regrets that the government has failed to address a | :35:36. | :35:39. | |
lifetime of low pay and inequality faced by many women. I do not | :35:40. | :35:44. | |
recognise this. Take two central planks of this government policy. | :35:45. | :35:51. | |
Raising personal allowances and equating the minimum wage to the | :35:52. | :35:55. | |
living wage. Both of these initiatives benefit tremendously. In | :35:56. | :35:59. | |
addition the present government is looking at options to reform | :36:00. | :36:03. | |
pensions tax relief, which was left in the same situation by the party | :36:04. | :36:12. | |
opposite. Following the budget, research carried out by the House of | :36:13. | :36:16. | |
Commons library show that as a result of the Chancellor's measures, | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
women would be twice, if not more likely, to be hit by men as a result | :36:22. | :36:29. | |
of these measures. If the disproportionate way in which women | :36:30. | :36:34. | |
have been affected by this, it will be added to a list of ways in which | :36:35. | :36:39. | |
the women of this country have been failed by this government. I don't | :36:40. | :36:44. | |
agree with that whatsoever. The raising of personal allowance | :36:45. | :36:47. | |
combined with the raised in minimum wage will give a huge boost to | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
British workers and women in this country. I think you should | :36:52. | :36:56. | |
recognise that fact. In addition of the government is looking at options | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
to reform pensions tax relief. If ministers choose the option that I | :37:01. | :37:04. | |
and others are calling for, and dispense with the top rate of tax | :37:05. | :37:08. | |
leaf, and moved to a single rate of relief, somewhere around 30p in the | :37:09. | :37:13. | |
pound, this would hugely advantage women in the workforce, a game | :37:14. | :37:17. | |
changer for millions of hard-working British women. Equalising the | :37:18. | :37:24. | |
pensions age may pose short-term challenges, but it's an overdue | :37:25. | :37:26. | |
acknowledgement of the role women play in the modern workforce. It's | :37:27. | :37:31. | |
quite wrongful women to structured the pension system around the | :37:32. | :37:34. | |
assumption that women's careers... I will give way. You raise an | :37:35. | :37:40. | |
important point about women in the workforce. Evidence that women | :37:41. | :37:43. | |
directly affected by the state pension age equalisation have | :37:44. | :37:46. | |
increased employment rate by 6.8%, increasing it up to 40.7% according | :37:47. | :37:52. | |
to the Department for Work and Pensions in November last year. | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
Older working age women are now more likely to be in employment than at | :37:57. | :38:03. | |
any time in the past 30 years. Thank you for making that point. To add to | :38:04. | :38:07. | |
that point, the fact is that many people actually come to retirement | :38:08. | :38:11. | |
age and it's before they collect their state pension in that regard, | :38:12. | :38:17. | |
but what we need to do is encourage older people to be involved in the | :38:18. | :38:21. | |
workforce as well. I can't give way any more. It's one of the most | :38:22. | :38:26. | |
encouraging thing is we've seen from this government, the fact people | :38:27. | :38:31. | |
asked Ainge in work for longer. -- people are staying in work for | :38:32. | :38:41. | |
longer. We are also enacting important forms of the period. | :38:42. | :38:45. | |
Somebody has to pay National Insurance before qualifying for | :38:46. | :38:49. | |
state pension. Until recently this tour that 39 years for women and 44 | :38:50. | :38:55. | |
for men, the worst of both worlds, structurally unequal while at the | :38:56. | :38:58. | |
same time long enough to penalised women who had taken time out to have | :38:59. | :38:59. | |
children. Moreover, by bringing contribute and | :39:00. | :39:14. | |
time periods down to the same level, the government has recognised that | :39:15. | :39:19. | |
many men may also desire a different work-life balance than was a | :39:20. | :39:24. | |
traditional case in the past. I'm not in the habit of quoting the | :39:25. | :39:27. | |
Liberal Democrats, but I will make an exception in this instance over | :39:28. | :39:31. | |
the government decision to defer state pension age to 66, while in | :39:32. | :39:36. | |
office, a cost of ?1.1 billion, Steve Webb, former pensions | :39:37. | :39:40. | |
minister, put it as a billion quid being a serious amount of money. | :39:41. | :39:42. | |
This decision means that almost a quarter of a million women who face | :39:43. | :39:47. | |
an increase in 18 months or more in their pension age no longer face | :39:48. | :39:52. | |
that possibility. We have also instituted the triple lock, which | :39:53. | :39:56. | |
ensures that pensions are increased by the highest of three measures, | :39:57. | :40:01. | |
price inflation, growth in earnings, or 2.5%. This means no more of this | :40:02. | :40:12. | |
sort of small bag of peanuts increase we saw under the | :40:13. | :40:18. | |
opposition. We in Britain are rightly proud of the care we take of | :40:19. | :40:23. | |
our elderly citizens. This is shown by a marked reduction in the levels | :40:24. | :40:26. | |
of pension and poverty in the previous two decades. It would be | :40:27. | :40:32. | |
wrong to take serious risks with long-term economic sustainability | :40:33. | :40:35. | |
and our pension system for the sake of winning short-term political | :40:36. | :40:42. | |
battles. Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker. Can I congratulate the | :40:43. | :40:47. | |
honourable member of Paisley and Renfrewshire south for her speech. | :40:48. | :40:56. | |
I'm heartened to see support from the front bench colleagues including | :40:57. | :41:03. | |
my neighbour, the Right Honourable member for Leigh, Newcastle North, | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
and Stretford End Urmston. All of whom I know strongly support this | :41:09. | :41:13. | |
campaign and the women affected by it. Can I congratulate the women | :41:14. | :41:19. | |
against the state pension equality campaign who have worked tirelessly | :41:20. | :41:25. | |
on this issue. They have now gained 107,000 signatures, possibly more | :41:26. | :41:32. | |
since this debate started. The increases made since 1995 have had a | :41:33. | :41:37. | |
proportionate impact on 1950s born women, and may have received little | :41:38. | :41:40. | |
or no notification of the changes. Despite the government saying they | :41:41. | :41:44. | |
should have at least ten years notice, indeed financial journalist | :41:45. | :41:47. | |
Paul Lewis found that none of the 1950s born women had been given ten | :41:48. | :41:50. | |
years notice, and in a worst case, and we have heard one of them from | :41:51. | :41:56. | |
my honourable women were told at 57 and a half that their pension age | :41:57. | :42:00. | |
would rise to 626. Women expecting to retire at 60 now have no job, no | :42:01. | :42:08. | |
pension and no money to live on. Former pensions Minister Steve Webb | :42:09. | :42:11. | |
admitted the government made a bad decision on these changes and his | :42:12. | :42:14. | |
excuse was that ministers had not been properly briefed. It appears | :42:15. | :42:19. | |
civil servants did a poor job on the legislation. Astonishingly the | :42:20. | :42:23. | |
impact assessment for the 2011 pensions act says this in its | :42:24. | :42:27. | |
conclusion... Overall, based on the available evidence, the change to | :42:28. | :42:30. | |
the previous timetable will not have a disproportionate effect on any | :42:31. | :42:32. | |
group compare to another. It should be a message to the | :42:33. | :42:43. | |
Government that people want action on this. Would she agree with my | :42:44. | :42:48. | |
efficient Linda Gregory who has worked since 15. So it has been more | :42:49. | :42:53. | |
penalised than people entering the workplace than normal standards now. | :42:54. | :42:57. | |
I thank my honourable friend for that. It seems unbelievable that | :42:58. | :43:02. | |
civil servants could believe taking billions away from a particular | :43:03. | :43:06. | |
group, adding years to their pit pension age and not informing them | :43:07. | :43:11. | |
in good time would not have a disproportionate impact on that | :43:12. | :43:16. | |
group. I raise these concerns brought to me by the class of 1970 | :43:17. | :43:21. | |
in the second reading debate, to which, when I raised the concerns, | :43:22. | :43:26. | |
the Secretary of State at that point said he had had letter from the | :43:27. | :43:29. | |
public stirred up by a number of people. Does she agree with me this | :43:30. | :43:33. | |
is not a matter stirred up by a number of people, this is a very | :43:34. | :43:37. | |
real matter that we have known about for some time? I do agree with my | :43:38. | :43:41. | |
honourable friend. I thank him for the work he's done on this since the | :43:42. | :43:47. | |
second reading. These changes are having a disproportionate affect. | :43:48. | :43:53. | |
Many have health problems which stop them working. Others have given up | :43:54. | :43:57. | |
work to care. I have a constituent affected by these changes who has | :43:58. | :44:01. | |
worked for more than 44 years and raised two children, suffered from s | :44:02. | :44:09. | |
osteoarthritis. She had to attend the Jobcentre who told her she was | :44:10. | :44:14. | |
entitled to six months job seeker's allowance. She said, I must watch my | :44:15. | :44:21. | |
savings dwindle on living costs. I wish I had not been frugal all my | :44:22. | :44:26. | |
life, by the time I get my pension I will be broke or dead. I am thankful | :44:27. | :44:32. | |
for my honourable friend giving way and for the sterling work. Does she | :44:33. | :44:36. | |
agree with me there is a particular problem for those whim had in places | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
like Blackpool only been able to work part-time for a long period of | :44:41. | :44:44. | |
time. Nevertheless have to take on some of the carer and other issues | :44:45. | :44:50. | |
that people have described? Before the 1995 pension act changes the | :44:51. | :44:54. | |
independent advisory committee said, savings made on raising the state | :44:55. | :44:59. | |
pension age should be spent on the most vulnerable group, with help for | :45:00. | :45:03. | |
low-paid women, women returning to work and carers. This advise was not | :45:04. | :45:08. | |
followed. Recently a court in the Netherlands ruled that raising the | :45:09. | :45:11. | |
age could be a breach of the human rights. A woman in her 60s appealed | :45:12. | :45:16. | |
against a two-year rise in her pension age, as creating an | :45:17. | :45:19. | |
individual and excessive burden on her. The court found in her favour. | :45:20. | :45:25. | |
It is welcome that some members opposite, who voted for the | :45:26. | :45:29. | |
acceleration of the state pension age in 2011 are now supporting the | :45:30. | :45:35. | |
campaign. I know other members opposite are blaming European | :45:36. | :45:39. | |
legislation for which I feel is shabby treatment of the 1950s born | :45:40. | :45:47. | |
women. When the Justice Minister answered he said that equalisation | :45:48. | :45:52. | |
was necessary to meet obligations under EU law. The same point has | :45:53. | :45:59. | |
been made to campaigners in reply from Conservative MPs. Research done | :46:00. | :46:02. | |
by the House of Commons Library and my own research shows this is not | :46:03. | :46:06. | |
the case. EU law allows countries to have | :46:07. | :46:12. | |
differences in state pension age. It allows lengthy transitional | :46:13. | :46:15. | |
arrangements to be made. The library research notes that directive 77 | :46:16. | :46:20. | |
EEC, requires the progressive implementation of the principal of | :46:21. | :46:25. | |
equal treatment for men and women in matters of social security. On that | :46:26. | :46:30. | |
point, she's making an excellent point about the fact that we need to | :46:31. | :46:34. | |
reach a level of equality in this issue. She is right, it is about the | :46:35. | :46:39. | |
pace of change and transitions which are unfair. Does she not agree that | :46:40. | :46:46. | |
the continual changing of the goal post goes against the justice this | :46:47. | :46:50. | |
country should be based on? And this background of EU law does not really | :46:51. | :46:55. | |
cause this. The directive allowed for different state pension ages. | :46:56. | :47:00. | |
Article 7 states that the determination of the age is the | :47:01. | :47:05. | |
right of member-states. And 2007 European Commission report confirmed | :47:06. | :47:08. | |
different state pension ages are allowed. Equalisation is therefore | :47:09. | :47:13. | |
described as an objective to be strived for. The Netherlands, | :47:14. | :47:16. | |
Portugal and France have no current difference. Austria and Hungary are | :47:17. | :47:22. | |
equalising the age with long trans sessional arrangements. In other | :47:23. | :47:26. | |
states the difference is currently maintained. Although making the | :47:27. | :47:33. | |
changes slowly. State pension ages will not be implemented in Poland | :47:34. | :47:40. | |
until 2040 and Bulgaria and Romania are retaining different state | :47:41. | :47:46. | |
pension ages. So it allows different ages and long transitional | :47:47. | :47:49. | |
arrangements. It is not an excuse this Government can hide behind to | :47:50. | :47:56. | |
hide behind a ?30,000 billions grab from 1950s-born women. Transitional | :47:57. | :48:01. | |
protections were discussed on the Pensions Act of 2011, but not | :48:02. | :48:06. | |
brought forward by ministers. Other countries have had transitional | :48:07. | :48:10. | |
arrangements or have had help for specific groups. Denmark has a | :48:11. | :48:15. | |
bridge pension. It tagly brought in extensive changes but made | :48:16. | :48:22. | |
exemptions to people made redundant. Italy realised public sector workers | :48:23. | :48:26. | |
could be left with no job and no pension. They then legislated six | :48:27. | :48:33. | |
adjustments between 2015-2015 to protect the workers by special | :48:34. | :48:38. | |
derogations. So the UK should and can put in place additional | :48:39. | :48:42. | |
arrangements to address the unfair consequences of this Government's | :48:43. | :48:46. | |
Pensions Act. One of these unfair consequences is having to pay | :48:47. | :48:53. | |
national insurance contributions, even though many 1950s-born women | :48:54. | :48:58. | |
have contributed for over 40 years. Differences exist at the regional | :48:59. | :49:03. | |
level. The Greater London Authority restored free travel to Londoners | :49:04. | :49:06. | |
aged between 60 and the state pension age lost due to the Pensions | :49:07. | :49:13. | |
Act. Bringing in the 6 oh of plus -- 60-plus Oyster card, the mayor said, | :49:14. | :49:19. | |
Londoners who have grafted all their life and expected free travel feel | :49:20. | :49:24. | |
cheated. What about women living outside of London, who have grafted | :49:25. | :49:29. | |
all their lives? And who also feel cheated when the Government's 2011 | :49:30. | :49:35. | |
pension age removed both their retirement and their free travel. | :49:36. | :49:39. | |
The reforms cannot be justified on the forms that it was unsustainable, | :49:40. | :49:42. | |
as the honourable member tried to do. The UK's state pension has been | :49:43. | :49:50. | |
one of the lowest in the OECD. As I have detailed, EU law allows | :49:51. | :49:58. | |
transitional. The lack of transdecisional arrangements for | :49:59. | :50:01. | |
1950s women is due to the decision of this Conservative Government. I | :50:02. | :50:06. | |
urge the minister to look at the issue and ways of providing adequate | :50:07. | :50:09. | |
transitional cover. Thank you very much indeed Mr Deputy | :50:10. | :50:17. | |
Speaker. I am pleased to be able to take part in this debate today. I | :50:18. | :50:21. | |
congratulates those who have secured it and those who are working so hard | :50:22. | :50:26. | |
outside this space to contact Members of Parliament and to talk | :50:27. | :50:30. | |
about a very, very important issue of public policy and personal | :50:31. | :50:35. | |
impact. My starting point, Mr Deputy Speaker | :50:36. | :50:42. | |
s a passionate belief that a civilised country protects family, | :50:43. | :50:45. | |
helps the vulnerable, helps those in work and provides in retirement. I | :50:46. | :50:49. | |
am looking to the trins pals we might apply to this debate base ond | :50:50. | :50:53. | |
the petition presented. As I understand it, the petition raises | :50:54. | :50:56. | |
three concerns - it raises the problem of there being little | :50:57. | :51:01. | |
notice, of the changes being faster than expect and the concern of there | :51:02. | :51:06. | |
not being enough time to plan. And I can recognise some of those | :51:07. | :51:10. | |
concerns in what I have heard from my own constituents. If I turn, for | :51:11. | :51:21. | |
example, to the first concern that many of us have hard from | :51:22. | :51:25. | |
constituents, somebody who has worked since a teenager, they are | :51:26. | :51:29. | |
concerned at the direct prospect of what is facing them in terms of | :51:30. | :51:35. | |
their health challenges, in terms of caring burdens and in terms of the | :51:36. | :51:39. | |
prospect of replanning. Others are concerned at the way that the | :51:40. | :51:45. | |
retirement dates work. Indeed a constituent told me in 2011, this is | :51:46. | :51:51. | |
in connect to the debate, she was concerned a woman who is two months | :51:52. | :51:56. | |
older than her could retire a year earlier. Another example from 2011, | :51:57. | :52:02. | |
I have a person who was concerned about the double attack on her, in | :52:03. | :52:07. | |
her words. She tells me she didn't like it, but accepted it, made the | :52:08. | :52:11. | |
necessary changes to her plans, mentally and financially when she | :52:12. | :52:15. | |
received her first notification of change and received another and was | :52:16. | :52:21. | |
forced to adjust a second time. If I then look at a further constituent | :52:22. | :52:25. | |
you hear a powerful and emotional argument. She said, when I first | :52:26. | :52:29. | |
heard my retirement age had gone up from 60 to 64, I was shocked and | :52:30. | :52:37. | |
tried to ignore it. She and I wonder, many Deputy Speaker if that | :52:38. | :52:41. | |
is one of the seeds, if it is perhaps an explanation of the | :52:42. | :52:44. | |
community problem which is here, if a person felt so shocked that their | :52:45. | :52:48. | |
response was to try and ignore a problem, we might understand how | :52:49. | :52:52. | |
powerful this problem is for these people. I like her and many others | :52:53. | :52:57. | |
in this chamber have had many e-mails from constituents. Does she | :52:58. | :53:01. | |
concern my concern that people who have worked all their live and have | :53:02. | :53:06. | |
had to change plans around and in terms of notification when which | :53:07. | :53:14. | |
have to work doubly hard. You get to a certain age, of which I am there | :53:15. | :53:20. | |
now. I think my honourable friend puts it | :53:21. | :53:24. | |
very well. If I turn to what a constituent has recently told me, a | :53:25. | :53:28. | |
person who came to my surgery and explained it has come as a shock to | :53:29. | :53:32. | |
her that she would have to wait until she was 66 until she could | :53:33. | :53:37. | |
retire, she was not informed and found out only when she requested a | :53:38. | :53:41. | |
pensions statement. We go to the question of being informed and | :53:42. | :53:45. | |
having time to plan. Thank you to the honourable lady for | :53:46. | :53:50. | |
giving way. I would like to clarify, despite suggesting that information | :53:51. | :53:55. | |
was not sent out until the late 2000s, whether she is actually | :53:56. | :53:58. | |
implying that all these women who say they were not contactsed were | :53:59. | :54:06. | |
contacted after -- contacted after '95 and ignored it. I find it hard | :54:07. | :54:13. | |
to understand what she is saying. I am citing directly from | :54:14. | :54:17. | |
constituents. I will make sure the official record cites this. I do not | :54:18. | :54:21. | |
know if a woman in question received the letter or not. I know what my | :54:22. | :54:27. | |
constituents come to tell me. I look forward to the minister's | :54:28. | :54:30. | |
explanation to what has happened historically. I hear from the | :54:31. | :54:33. | |
honourable lady who opened the debate. I hear her point that the | :54:34. | :54:37. | |
past is the past and there's only a certain amount you can do if you | :54:38. | :54:41. | |
look at a problem which has routed in 1995. Let me go back to what I am | :54:42. | :54:46. | |
looking for as we move forward. I think we have a set of principals | :54:47. | :54:51. | |
that we could apply here. The first is we should protect those who can | :54:52. | :54:54. | |
no longer work. The second is we should provide the right support for | :54:55. | :54:58. | |
those who can. I think the third is that we should maintain sound | :54:59. | :55:05. | |
publicfy nansss. To fail to do so -- public finances. To fail hurts all. | :55:06. | :55:10. | |
We should produce better communications to enable people to | :55:11. | :55:15. | |
plan. It is that that is my main message to ministers here today. Let | :55:16. | :55:19. | |
me dwell first on the point of equalisation. I heard earlier in the | :55:20. | :55:26. | |
debate a hubbub that said, yes, we all agree on equalisation. Let's | :55:27. | :55:30. | |
have some figures why we need to do. That when the state pension age was | :55:31. | :55:38. | |
first set at 65 in 1926, male life expect tabsy was 64, compared to 89 | :55:39. | :55:45. | |
today. If the state pension age had rised in terms of 65, since 1966, it | :55:46. | :55:51. | |
would be 75. We have a significant gap that we need to make up. Indeed | :55:52. | :55:57. | |
I understand when the state pension was even earlier set up in 1908, if | :55:58. | :56:02. | |
we look further back into the history books. The average life | :56:03. | :56:10. | |
expect pansy was 41. You see the -- expectancy was 4 # 1. You see the -- | :56:11. | :56:14. | |
41. You see the differences that we have to deal with. The Government | :56:15. | :56:21. | |
acknowledged a more generous state pension had to be funded by an | :56:22. | :56:24. | |
increase in the pension age. Let's make sure we are aware of the cost | :56:25. | :56:28. | |
of these measures. I understand it would be to the tune of ?30 billion | :56:29. | :56:34. | |
to return to a 1995 timetable. Let's compare that to a few other things | :56:35. | :56:38. | |
so we have a well-informed debate. If we look at the 2015/16 spending | :56:39. | :56:47. | |
figures, as soon in the July Budget, we see an expenditure of ?28 billion | :56:48. | :56:52. | |
on housing and the environment. We see ?34 billion on public order and | :56:53. | :56:57. | |
safety. All that we spend on housing and all that we spend on public | :56:58. | :57:01. | |
order and safety is equivalent to the sum we are talking about here | :57:02. | :57:06. | |
today in broad terms. Does she not recognise the | :57:07. | :57:16. | |
reasonableness of what -- off their Waspi campaign and the issue of | :57:17. | :57:21. | |
implementing the pension credit entitlements. Those as she will know | :57:22. | :57:27. | |
are often key to people in terms of what they claim. I think the | :57:28. | :57:31. | |
honourable gentleman cars I thank the honourable gentleman for that | :57:32. | :57:35. | |
and I recognise the grounds of the campaign and as I hope I have made | :57:36. | :57:39. | |
clear I do recognise the importance of this point for every single one | :57:40. | :57:43. | |
of those people affected. I will leave it to the Minister to reply | :57:44. | :57:46. | |
specifically about pension credits. Let me answer with one further | :57:47. | :57:50. | |
example of what ?30 billion can buy you. It can buy you some of the debt | :57:51. | :57:56. | |
interest on his government's financial catastrophe, to the tune | :57:57. | :58:01. | |
of ?36 billion that we have to spend in this financial year. So let me | :58:02. | :58:06. | |
conclude. I have only a few minutes left. Let me conclude. We do have to | :58:07. | :58:14. | |
listen very, very carefully to such a competitive and well informed | :58:15. | :58:20. | |
campaign, that is quite right. I want to hear my constituents' | :58:21. | :58:25. | |
concerns that I have put into my comments balanced with all else the | :58:26. | :58:28. | |
government has to do. I strongly sympathise with this campaign and | :58:29. | :58:32. | |
indeed in 2011I was active in representing my constituents to the | :58:33. | :58:36. | |
then pension Minister to mitigate the of two years in receiving their | :58:37. | :58:42. | |
pension for around 250,000 women at that time. My call is for the | :58:43. | :58:45. | |
government to communicate considerably better than has been | :58:46. | :58:48. | |
done to date full stop it seems we cannot go back. Equalisation does | :58:49. | :58:53. | |
have the mean equalisation. You cannot delay forever on it, nor | :58:54. | :58:57. | |
Duckett. We need to maintain the principles I have set out and | :58:58. | :59:01. | |
communicate better. Thank you very much. I'd like to apologise for not | :59:02. | :59:05. | |
being present at the beginning of this debate. There is no doubt that | :59:06. | :59:10. | |
this government's treatment of women in general has been abysmal. With | :59:11. | :59:14. | |
more women in part-time, low paid work and women being hit harder by | :59:15. | :59:18. | |
the tax and benefit changes compared to men. So it comes as no surprise | :59:19. | :59:23. | |
that they are completely resolute in refusing to address the financial | :59:24. | :59:26. | |
disadvantage they have forced on women born in the 1950s. The | :59:27. | :59:35. | |
pensions act of 1995 and 2011 have resulted in millions of women's | :59:36. | :59:39. | |
pensions being delayed. Then in -- this in itself is of concern. | :59:40. | :59:43. | |
However, when most of these women have not been notified of these | :59:44. | :59:46. | |
changes, it becomes more than a concern. It becomes a situation | :59:47. | :59:50. | |
where some are already struggling to get by and being pushed into | :59:51. | :59:56. | |
poverty. Of course Mr Deputy Speaker I am in favour of equalisation, as | :59:57. | :00:00. | |
are all of the women whom I have spoken to, and I accept that | :00:01. | :00:04. | |
increases in life expectancy mean any government needs to consider | :00:05. | :00:08. | |
very carefully state pension age and the extension of working lives. But | :00:09. | :00:12. | |
if such changes are to blame implemented is it not the mark of an | :00:13. | :00:17. | |
irresponsible government, any government that cares about the | :00:18. | :00:20. | |
people they are legislation affects, to make sure those affected no and | :00:21. | :00:25. | |
that they do not introduce legislation that directly | :00:26. | :00:32. | |
disadvantages millions of people. As others have probably already said, | :00:33. | :00:35. | |
many of the women affected simply weren't notified. Those who have | :00:36. | :00:41. | |
been notified since the 2011 acceleration, have only received two | :00:42. | :00:46. | |
years' notice, get as we all know the appropriate minimum notification | :00:47. | :00:49. | |
period for a state pension age increases generally agreed to be ten | :00:50. | :00:55. | |
years. I will give way. Why Bob and I thank my honourable friend. My | :00:56. | :00:58. | |
grandma taught me that two wrongs don't make a right and these women | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
have been wronged time and time again. Given that there has been a | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
successful legal action in the Dutch court, isn't it better that we form | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
transitional arrangements rather than go to the law courts with this | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
issue? I thank my honourable friend for that in the direction and she is | :01:15. | :01:18. | |
spot on. It would be very embarrassing for this government | :01:19. | :01:22. | |
decided to take individual legal action. Think of the lawyers' fees! | :01:23. | :01:32. | |
I will give way. Was she also recognise that for many of these | :01:33. | :01:37. | |
women who are our constituents there is a real, real threat of stress and | :01:38. | :01:45. | |
stress-related illness as a result of that failure to inform? And the | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
government should take that very, very seriously when understanding | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
why so many members want these transitional arrangements. Thank | :01:55. | :02:00. | |
you. I thank my honourable friend for that intervention and I'm going | :02:01. | :02:03. | |
to come onto some examples from my own constituency of women who are | :02:04. | :02:07. | |
experiencing that very stressed that he refers to. In my constituency in | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
South Shields we have a higher than average level of people with | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
illnesses such as COPD and others left over from our proud heavy | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
industrial days. This means that we have a large number of women who are | :02:21. | :02:24. | |
caring for relatives or husbands, women who fall into the group who | :02:25. | :02:28. | |
have been disadvantaged by these pensions changes. One woman such as | :02:29. | :02:33. | |
my constituents Lynne Wilson, she got a letter sometime in 2011-2012 | :02:34. | :02:39. | |
and told she would not be getting her pension at 65, but at 66. This | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
was a complete and utter shock to her as she was still of the view she | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
was getting her pension when she was 60 years old. Her husband Derek was | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
diagnosed with lung cancer four years ago. In -- due to these | :02:54. | :02:57. | |
pension changes Lynne has had to continue working but has had to | :02:58. | :03:01. | |
reduce her hours so she can care for Derek. She does a difficult and | :03:02. | :03:07. | |
physical job. She herself suffers from serious back problems and | :03:08. | :03:10. | |
arthritis. If her back got worse she tells me she has a small private | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
pension she and Derek could manage to live on, but that would not last | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
for the whole six years that she needs to wait for her state pension. | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
She told me she continues to struggle on but I am her both in | :03:23. | :03:25. | |
agreement that this should not be the way. I will give way. Does my | :03:26. | :03:33. | |
honourable friend agree with me that women like her constituents face the | :03:34. | :03:36. | |
double barrier of discrimination in the workplace as women are being | :03:37. | :03:39. | |
forced to work longer, this government has put barriers in the | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
way to their access to employment tribunals as well? I agree | :03:46. | :03:47. | |
completely with my honourable friend. But my constituent is not | :03:48. | :03:51. | |
the only one who knows things should not be this way. Baroness Altman, | :03:52. | :03:58. | |
when director general of Saga, now in the other plays as Minister of | :03:59. | :04:01. | |
State for pensions, said the government's changes to state | :04:02. | :04:03. | |
pensions were clearly discriminatory. The Secretary of | :04:04. | :04:09. | |
State for Work and Pensions in 2011 made a firm commitment to look at | :04:10. | :04:12. | |
transitional provisions to help women hit hardest by these changes. | :04:13. | :04:18. | |
And the previous pensions Minister stated only last year that the | :04:19. | :04:22. | |
changes made were a decision we got wrong. What is outrageous is that | :04:23. | :04:28. | |
despite knowing this the government are not prepared to do anything | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
about it and seem content to let these women continue to suffer. | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
Another one of my constituents, Diane Dawson, it took voluntary | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
redundancy from her job when she was 60 years old. This was assuming that | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
she was to reach state pension age at 62. She then found out not from | :04:48. | :04:53. | |
the DWP, but from a friend, that she would reach state pension age not at | :04:54. | :05:00. | |
62, but at 64. She is now living off dwindling savings and as a result is | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
having to sell her family home. She has never received anything at all | :05:06. | :05:12. | |
from the DWP. No wonder she feels completely let down and completely | :05:13. | :05:15. | |
cheated. Mr Deputy Speaker there are many more women in these difficult | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
situations who have worked their entire lives only to find out at the | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
11th hour that the system they trusted and paid into four decades | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
has let them down. I would urge the Minister is seriously listen to the | :05:29. | :05:31. | |
motion before the House today because if transitional arrangements | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
are not introduced the women affected and those of us on this | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
side of the chamber are not going to give up pressing for them. I'm also | :05:41. | :05:43. | |
sure the Minister agrees it would be a lot more costly and a lot more | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
embarrassing for this government if those individuals began to seek some | :05:49. | :05:53. | |
legal redress. I just hope Mr Deputy Speaker that the work of the | :05:54. | :05:56. | |
Wimmer-macro campaigners and others that led to this debate today will | :05:57. | :06:02. | |
see this government listen, for once -- the Wimmer-macro campaigners. I | :06:03. | :06:08. | |
have sympathy with people when they are expectations change and I thank | :06:09. | :06:15. | |
my constituents who have e-mailed me to highlight this issue. I want to | :06:16. | :06:21. | |
start by looking at the background of this whole issue. The fact is | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
that the longevity of our population is rising and that's a good thing. | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
It's great to live longer and women live longer than men and women have, | :06:31. | :06:37. | |
I won't give way, thank you, and women on average are having a more | :06:38. | :06:44. | |
healthy longevity and that is rising at a greater rate than it is for | :06:45. | :06:50. | |
men. We as a nation spends a massive and increasing amount on our health | :06:51. | :06:53. | |
care system and our pensions system in order to make that a happy | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
retirement for as many people as possible. By way of background, it | :06:58. | :07:04. | |
was in 1908 that they're then Liberal government and a Lloyd | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
George actually brought in the first provisions, no, not at all, I | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
certainly wouldn't blame, I thank for the intervention, but I'm not | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
blaming the Liberals for that! When it was first brought in... | :07:18. | :07:26. | |
Churchill... Exactly, there was a great man, Mr Churchill, who was | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
involved as well. But what happened back then was the age at which it | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
could be claimed was set at 70 years old, that compared with the average | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
longevity at that point of 55 years of age, which gives you some idea, | :07:39. | :07:44. | |
which gives us some idea, of the changes that have taken place since. | :07:45. | :07:54. | |
In 1995, the retirement ages were raised so that they would be equal | :07:55. | :08:00. | |
between women and men in the future and then this was further looked at | :08:01. | :08:06. | |
in the mid-2000 by Lord Turner and there was pretty good cross-party | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
support at that time for those ages to be raised further, given the | :08:13. | :08:14. | |
increases in longevity I've been talking about. Under there is this | :08:15. | :08:21. | |
last government, in correlation with the Liberal Democrats, when I wasn't | :08:22. | :08:27. | |
in this Parliament a decision was taken based on even further | :08:28. | :08:30. | |
increases in the longevity, to increase those ages even faster for | :08:31. | :08:40. | |
a few of the people involved in it -- coalition. One of the principles | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
behind all of these more recent changes was the affordability over | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
all of the system. We've heard about the price it would cost to reverse | :08:51. | :08:57. | |
this as being ?39 billion. Now, that is a liability that would apply to | :08:58. | :09:03. | |
all age groups and in my submission it would be very unfair for us to | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
continue trying to burden the younger generations with extra taxes | :09:09. | :09:15. | |
in order to make more concessions than we already have, but at the | :09:16. | :09:23. | |
moment. -- not at the moment. There was a concession of over ?1 billion | :09:24. | :09:31. | |
made at the time of the last decision 2011, to actually help | :09:32. | :09:34. | |
these particular age groups who are contacting us now. I want to talk a | :09:35. | :09:40. | |
little bit about equality, because I have two very young daughters and | :09:41. | :09:43. | |
I'm very keen that they should have as equal opportunities as possible, | :09:44. | :09:51. | |
to take part in the workplace and to be equal citizens in every right | :09:52. | :09:57. | |
with men of this nation. I want to highlight a few things that make me | :09:58. | :10:03. | |
think that we the government on this side are actually very well on | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
behalf of women. Yes, on behalf of women. The introduction of a single | :10:09. | :10:14. | |
tier state pension will have a very good effect on women and it being | :10:15. | :10:23. | |
equally available to them as the men, based on the same types of | :10:24. | :10:32. | |
approach to national insurance. Certainly, yes I will. You talked | :10:33. | :10:35. | |
about equalisation of the state pension and it's important to note | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
we talked about women living longer, women living as long as men now, and | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
equalisation of the state pension age is a reflection that women and | :10:45. | :10:47. | |
men play an equal role in our society and our economy. I thank the | :10:48. | :10:54. | |
Honourable lady for her intervention and she makes an excellent point. | :10:55. | :10:59. | |
Equality is at the heart of what we are trying to do for women. One of | :11:00. | :11:06. | |
the ways that we are looking to do that is to decrease the gender pay | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
gap is. That will be helped by increasing the minimum wage, | :11:12. | :11:18. | |
increasing the availability of jobs and work, and increasing the | :11:19. | :11:21. | |
personal tax allowance, so there are many incentives and programmes that | :11:22. | :11:27. | |
we are pursuing to allow women to participate successfully for a short | :11:28. | :11:33. | |
extra time longer than they may have expected. This takes us back to the | :11:34. | :11:39. | |
issue at the heart of this debate, which seems to be the extent to | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
which women were given notice and the ability therefore the plan for | :11:44. | :11:51. | |
their retirement -- to plan for their retirement. Now I have some | :11:52. | :11:54. | |
sympathy and obviously anyone who is going through a stressful personal | :11:55. | :11:59. | |
situation, I am sympathetic to, but we do also need to be responsible. | :12:00. | :12:05. | |
It's very hard to say who exactly was contacted and not, but it is, I | :12:06. | :12:14. | |
think, from what I have seen and I obviously wasn't involved in any of | :12:15. | :12:17. | |
the previous decisions, but most people were given that notice and | :12:18. | :12:20. | |
that allows them to actually plan. I would give some advice to the | :12:21. | :12:31. | |
younger generations who might be listening to this debate, I have | :12:32. | :12:38. | |
some experience in the pension world and the main thing you have to | :12:39. | :12:44. | |
remember when investor in for our retirement it is that the earlier | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
you get started saving the more money you will have at the end. That | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
is because of the power of compound interest which has a tremendous, | :12:55. | :13:02. | |
tremendous effect. Certainly. I thank... I thank my honourable | :13:03. | :13:08. | |
friend forgiving way, in this wide-ranging speech. Would he join | :13:09. | :13:13. | |
with me in hoping that the minister in his closing remarks will address | :13:14. | :13:19. | |
some of those communications going forward with those who work now and | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
are hoping to retire in the future, so that his young daughters and my | :13:24. | :13:26. | |
young daughters will know where they are? I thank the honourable lady for | :13:27. | :13:33. | |
her intervention. She makes an excellent point, on which I was | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
going to conclude my remarks. We have a duty to the young people of | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
this nation to keep their taxes down so that they have as much scope to | :13:44. | :13:47. | |
plan for their retirement as possible. They are already being | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
asked to shoulder a completely unacceptable burden which was put | :13:52. | :13:57. | |
upon them by the benches opposite and in my view it would be entirely | :13:58. | :14:01. | |
wrong to reopen the decision which was taken by the Liberal Democrat | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
and Conservative coalition back in 2011. Can I just say to the member | :14:07. | :14:19. | |
of Yeovil, I am sure that the debate will feel really glad he feels | :14:20. | :14:22. | |
sympathy for them. He might want to think when he is telling people | :14:23. | :14:26. | |
about saving early in their lives that a lot of the women we are | :14:27. | :14:31. | |
talking about was barred from paying into secondary pension schemes. I | :14:32. | :14:37. | |
congratulate this debate, this should have been a statement from | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
the party opposite, she said it was complicated and people always hide | :14:43. | :14:46. | |
behind pensions being complicated but the truth is, this is a very | :14:47. | :14:54. | |
simple debate. We are here today, this is not a pensions debate this | :14:55. | :14:59. | |
is a debate about public policy. We have a Chancellor who has a | :15:00. | :15:02. | |
long-term economic plan, you might have heard about it! It was supposed | :15:03. | :15:08. | |
to end the deficit in four years complete and utter flop. Cannot even | :15:09. | :15:14. | |
put forward a plan which lasts for weeks. He came last year with a | :15:15. | :15:18. | |
budget to this house which is going to be detrimental to those people | :15:19. | :15:22. | |
facing welfare cuts to their pensions in this country. A few | :15:23. | :15:28. | |
weeks later he came back with ?27 billion in his pocket which he found | :15:29. | :15:31. | |
down the back of the couch and that was going to be the way forward. But | :15:32. | :15:37. | |
this morning he is older than media telling us hang on, you have got it | :15:38. | :15:41. | |
wrong, we are in a mess again and have to put the brake on again. | :15:42. | :15:46. | |
People have to realise we are still facing austerity. Give them credit, | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
the people speaking from the benches opposite have trotted that line out | :15:52. | :15:55. | |
today. Said how hard it is going to be, all these billions of Pope to | :15:56. | :16:00. | |
put right what has gone wrong. But what we have to accept is that this | :16:01. | :16:04. | |
is not like the weather -- billions of pounds. This is a political | :16:05. | :16:12. | |
choice. They are knowingly and deliberately making women in this | :16:13. | :16:15. | |
country pay for the mistakes for the rich and wealthy which resulted in | :16:16. | :16:27. | |
the ash in 2008 -- the crash. Yesterday I read the National Audit | :16:28. | :16:32. | |
Office had identified the UK's complex weapons programme has | :16:33. | :16:35. | |
increased to 14 billion a year over the past few years, with the | :16:36. | :16:39. | |
honourable member agree that it is clear evidence that pensioners are | :16:40. | :16:43. | |
suffering from the poor decisions and the priorities of this | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
government? Absolutely correct. One of the members said to put this | :16:48. | :16:51. | |
right we have to raise income tax, we would not. We could stop spending | :16:52. | :16:55. | |
on things, stop doing things like giving more money to the children of | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
dead millionaires with inheritance tax. We could stop giving businesses | :17:00. | :17:08. | |
cut in corporation tax. The truth is that this has been a choice and we | :17:09. | :17:13. | |
are a country, where two days ago the chief executive of the top 100 | :17:14. | :17:19. | |
companies, they are salaries passed at the average wage of working men | :17:20. | :17:23. | |
and women in this country. That is the inequality in this country. At | :17:24. | :17:28. | |
the same time we are seeing these women and we are saying you have to | :17:29. | :17:32. | |
carry the can for the failures of global capitalism. The truth is the | :17:33. | :17:36. | |
party opposite by and large don't care. They don't care because they | :17:37. | :17:39. | |
don't understand the reality of life at the sharp end. My mother was one | :17:40. | :17:45. | |
of the women who worked all her life, in jobs where she was never | :17:46. | :17:49. | |
allowed to join a pension scheme and was only able to build up a | :17:50. | :17:53. | |
secondary pension scheme so in the end she did in relative poverty. My | :17:54. | :17:58. | |
mother died 15 years ago but things have not changed for the majority of | :17:59. | :18:06. | |
women in this country. My constituency and my constituents | :18:07. | :18:09. | |
wrote a long heartfelt letter to me and I will quote some small parts. | :18:10. | :18:17. | |
"My Pension has changed twice, once in 1995, from 60, 264, and again I | :18:18. | :18:27. | |
was not notified, I was 59 with five years to work that my retirement age | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
had been changed from 64, two 66. This is not enough time to prepare. | :18:33. | :18:40. | |
" He is making a powerful speech and it reminds me of an e-mail I had | :18:41. | :18:44. | |
from a constituents which also said she was double locked. The first | :18:45. | :18:48. | |
time because she was younger she wasn't thinking about these things | :18:49. | :18:51. | |
but she has health problems and worries she will be knocking on the | :18:52. | :18:57. | |
door of job-seekers. The truth is that everyone of us in this room, | :18:58. | :19:01. | |
including the people opposite, could all have read cases from people who | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
have written to us, come to see us about the inequality and the | :19:07. | :19:09. | |
disgrace going on here today and should not have been allowed to | :19:10. | :19:14. | |
happen. My constituent goes on to say "This is not enough time to pay, | :19:15. | :19:19. | |
I start work at 16 and for 25 years received my pension at 60, to have | :19:20. | :19:24. | |
this changed not once but twice in my lifetime. I feel betrayed by the | :19:25. | :19:30. | |
government and women my age have been discriminated against most of | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
their working lives, denied the ability to prepare for retirement | :19:35. | :19:37. | |
and taking the biggest hit of all so the government can the retirement | :19:38. | :19:45. | |
age in a attempt to save money. " Is I believe the minister is a decent | :19:46. | :19:48. | |
man and I don't think he will have the power or authority to do today | :19:49. | :19:51. | |
what we believe should happen but let's look at the reality, the | :19:52. | :19:56. | |
former minister responsible for this, the human shield of the | :19:57. | :20:02. | |
Liberal Democrats, I would ask a question Mr Deputy Speaker, where | :20:03. | :20:04. | |
are the Liberal Democrats today? Is anybody here from the Liberal | :20:05. | :20:09. | |
Democrats? Perhaps they are ashamed of him as they should be for him | :20:10. | :20:13. | |
being the shield for the hostility agenda forced through through five | :20:14. | :20:18. | |
years of college. -- the austerity agenda. -- five years of coalition. | :20:19. | :20:28. | |
This is a contract with the people of this country, a contract that the | :20:29. | :20:31. | |
people of this country did not have any say in. It was a contract, this | :20:32. | :20:39. | |
contract has been breached, it needs to be put right and they need to do | :20:40. | :20:47. | |
the right thing. It would do the world of politics are very positive | :20:48. | :20:52. | |
service if when we get it wrong, we say we get it wrong and put it | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
right? Wrecked, in putting it right I am | :20:58. | :21:04. | |
glad, what we don't want is the shifty thing which happens when the | :21:05. | :21:12. | |
Chancellor came here in December and said I am not going to go ahead with | :21:13. | :21:16. | |
tax credit cuts but he had moved it so it will come and hit people in | :21:17. | :21:20. | |
universal credit. We want this put right and put right now and quickly. | :21:21. | :21:28. | |
Mr Deputy Speaker, thank you for calling me to talk in this debate | :21:29. | :21:33. | |
which in some ways is a rerun of one held in December in Westminster | :21:34. | :21:39. | |
hall, organised by the member for Worsley and Eccles South who has a | :21:40. | :21:42. | |
long track record of campaigning on this issue and I congratulate also | :21:43. | :21:49. | |
my colleague on the select committee for bringing this up and bringing to | :21:50. | :21:54. | |
life in a sense the emotional feelings by many women of the most | :21:55. | :21:59. | |
affected by changes to the state pension. In a way that everyone here | :22:00. | :22:04. | |
can relate to, because we all have pensions and members of our own | :22:05. | :22:09. | |
family who are affected. I do think Mr Deputy Speaker there is a risk | :22:10. | :22:15. | |
today of overstating the case. My colleague in the select committee | :22:16. | :22:19. | |
will not mind me, I hope, saying that when she said nobody was aware | :22:20. | :22:27. | |
of the 1995 changes, there was no correspondence, that simply is an | :22:28. | :22:31. | |
exaggeration of the situation. We will never know exactly who was | :22:32. | :22:38. | |
communicated to, and who, probably most importantly, noticed it and | :22:39. | :22:42. | |
paid attention. Not yet, not at the moment. We do know that in 2004, the | :22:43. | :22:48. | |
previous government did a study on this from the DWP and Labour Party | :22:49. | :22:52. | |
members will remember this. That study concluded that three quarters | :22:53. | :22:57. | |
of those affected had been to be negated to effectively. Not at the | :22:58. | :23:02. | |
moment. Members on the opposition side bench may care to comment on | :23:03. | :23:06. | |
that. The fact is there are quite a lot of people who either were told | :23:07. | :23:09. | |
at that time and thought it was a long way off and not something we | :23:10. | :23:14. | |
had to be attention to all were not communicated to in which case for | :23:15. | :23:16. | |
some of them it's been a difficult wake-up call. No doubt about that, | :23:17. | :23:20. | |
lessons for accreditation which I will come onto and I hope the | :23:21. | :23:25. | |
menaced will address. A lot of people want to talk so let me carry | :23:26. | :23:32. | |
on. On the second point she brought up, and she was right to quote the | :23:33. | :23:37. | |
previous pensions minister saying that not everybody knew and that is | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
a point he has accepted and we all recognise. But nonetheless, the | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
argument that no transitional arrangements were made, which is | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
what the honourable members are calling for today, is of course also | :23:52. | :23:56. | |
wrong. There was a significant transitional arrangement and | :23:57. | :24:00. | |
concession made in 2011 which affected 250,000 people and cost the | :24:01. | :24:05. | |
government ?1.3 million, cost the tax payer ?1.3 billion. The reason | :24:06. | :24:12. | |
that arrangement was made was precisely because they then pensions | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
minister in the then government recognised that advice from the | :24:18. | :24:23. | |
Department only increase of waiting time for some women born in the | :24:24. | :24:28. | |
1950s was as much as two years and they wanted to juice it to 18 months | :24:29. | :24:35. | |
which would indeed benefit the 250,000 people from that | :24:36. | :24:39. | |
arrangement. What is interesting today is that whilst the motion | :24:40. | :24:43. | |
calls for transitional arrangements, further transitional arrangements, | :24:44. | :24:48. | |
it does not spell out, nor does any member speaking so far spell out, | :24:49. | :24:52. | |
exactly what transitional arrangements are being called for? | :24:53. | :24:58. | |
Hold on, let me finish. Where the intention to simply change all the | :24:59. | :25:03. | |
arrangements for all the women in the 1950s and go back to the | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
original proposal, that would, I believe, and the minister may want | :25:09. | :25:13. | |
to bid a more detailed figure on it, cost the taxpayer about ?10 billion. | :25:14. | :25:19. | |
Yesterday we had the Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary call for changes | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
to universal credit, which were not costed, to which he offered no | :25:25. | :25:27. | |
alternative in terms of where the money would come from, today we have | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
something which might cost ?10 billion but actually the | :25:33. | :25:34. | |
transitional arrangement being proposed hasn't been spelt out now | :25:35. | :25:38. | |
has the cost of it or how it would be paid for. Mr Deputy Speaker I do | :25:39. | :25:42. | |
believe that it is incumbent on all of us as MPs, partly to represent | :25:43. | :25:48. | |
the emotional feelings of our constituents, which has been done | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
very well by a number of members today, but also to reflect on the | :25:53. | :25:55. | |
reality and the cost and the obligations of what is being | :25:56. | :26:00. | |
proposed. That, I think, does remain an open question and I am happy to | :26:01. | :26:03. | |
take a question on that specific point. To the honourable member, | :26:04. | :26:08. | |
with the honourable member except that what we have was the quest for | :26:09. | :26:13. | |
equalisation in pensions which has resulted in an iniquitous outcome | :26:14. | :26:17. | |
for the women discussed here this afternoon? The social justice | :26:18. | :26:20. | |
demands that whatever the transitional arrangements should be | :26:21. | :26:23. | |
and I believe he makes a strong point, that he and other members of | :26:24. | :26:28. | |
the DWP committee will work to find transitional arrangements which will | :26:29. | :26:29. | |
ease the iniquitous outcome. We have that discussion is select | :26:30. | :26:40. | |
committee. We heard evidence from the Waspi campaign, which has been a | :26:41. | :26:44. | |
very good, reasonable, sensible campaign, and it did focus on the | :26:45. | :26:47. | |
hole in their evidence to the select committee on the issue of | :26:48. | :26:50. | |
communication. Partly so that lessons can be learned, so that in | :26:51. | :26:53. | |
the future when announcements are made, which may well be for ten | :26:54. | :26:57. | |
years ahead, that actually all those who are going to be affected really | :26:58. | :27:01. | |
are communicated to effectively, so we don't have a situation in ten | :27:02. | :27:06. | |
years' time where another generation of women are complaining about not | :27:07. | :27:11. | |
knowing. I'm happy to give way. Would he agree with me that there, | :27:12. | :27:17. | |
we hope the minister in his summing up, addresses the whole point of the | :27:18. | :27:21. | |
failure of communication strategy since 1995, right up to the current | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
day. I have a constituent who was told in October they had qualified | :27:27. | :27:30. | |
for their state pension a few weeks later they were told no, they had | :27:31. | :27:33. | |
another three years. We really need to address this point. Yes, I think | :27:34. | :27:39. | |
that's right, I'm sure the Minister will comment on communication | :27:40. | :27:42. | |
because as I said in the debate in December there are clear lessons and | :27:43. | :27:46. | |
it would be good to have it clarified that future changes, and I | :27:47. | :27:48. | |
know there's a further review planned in 2017, given the longevity | :27:49. | :27:54. | |
increases that are still going on, in fact I think the average life of | :27:55. | :28:00. | |
women as projected by the Office of National Statistics has already | :28:01. | :28:05. | |
increased 2.6 years since the 1995 proposals, and I dare Turner, whose | :28:06. | :28:08. | |
report really gave the consensus that this House had for many years | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
said not very long ago that if he was doing the report now he would | :28:13. | :28:16. | |
have planned for faster changes ahead the state pension ages. It's | :28:17. | :28:21. | |
also worth reflecting the honourable member for Paisley and Renfrewshire | :28:22. | :28:25. | |
rightly said that at some point we would want to discuss the effect on | :28:26. | :28:31. | |
women of the future state pension, and in answer to the honourable | :28:32. | :28:34. | |
member's point about discrimination against women, I think it is really | :28:35. | :28:40. | |
important that all members and our constituents are aware that the new | :28:41. | :28:43. | |
state pension will be much fairer to women than the old system. Let me | :28:44. | :28:49. | |
just point out this if I make, then I will come to you. National | :28:50. | :28:52. | |
insurance credits will be given four years taken out of work for caring | :28:53. | :28:56. | |
or bringing up a family. This is the first time this has happened in the | :28:57. | :28:59. | |
history of the pension. It's a really important point. It will give | :29:00. | :29:03. | |
women the same entitlements as National Insurance contributions | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
through earning. That's a significant change and I do think | :29:08. | :29:09. | |
the honourable members who brought forward this motion would want to | :29:10. | :29:13. | |
allude to that. Of course I give way. I have listened very carefully | :29:14. | :29:17. | |
to him and what he said today as the government made a policy decision in | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
2011 to accelerate which impacted on a lot of people. He said they had | :29:23. | :29:26. | |
failed to communicate the effects of that decision to the people | :29:27. | :29:29. | |
affected. So why does he conclude the government doesn't now have a | :29:30. | :29:32. | |
moral obligation to put that mistake right? Actually what I said was the | :29:33. | :29:39. | |
communication issue goes back to 1995, a time when I certainly wasn't | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
in this House and during that period of 1995-2010, for the bulk of that | :29:45. | :29:51. | |
period his party was in power, so the communication issue, there's no | :29:52. | :29:53. | |
point in pointing fingers at different parties on this, but the | :29:54. | :29:58. | |
point is that during that period between 1995-2010, that is at the | :29:59. | :30:02. | |
heart of the issue of communication, which the motion addresses, and the | :30:03. | :30:08. | |
important thing now is in terms of what good advice can we give our | :30:09. | :30:11. | |
constituents, the important thing is for those who are not sure what they | :30:12. | :30:15. | |
are going to receive an retirement is to ask for a statement and that | :30:16. | :30:20. | |
is what the pension wise campaign, which is available to everybody free | :30:21. | :30:24. | |
of charge, is there to do. Ask for the statement. Half a million people | :30:25. | :30:28. | |
have already taken advantage of that. That is the most effective | :30:29. | :30:31. | |
communications tool that we should be using to address this issue of | :30:32. | :30:36. | |
making sure that women and men, everybody approaching retirement, | :30:37. | :30:43. | |
knows what they will receive. Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker. When the | :30:44. | :30:49. | |
latest changes were made in 2011 act regarding pensions we on this side | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
of the House objected and there were many debates about this particular | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
issue and we talked about especially the 11 minute -- the double whammy | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
effect on women and remember speaking on this debate but the | :31:02. | :31:04. | |
government went ahead and passed this legislation. I want to explain | :31:05. | :31:08. | |
to the Minister what my constituents have been writing to me about the | :31:09. | :31:11. | |
women who have been affected by these changes and I'm going to read | :31:12. | :31:16. | |
out some of them. Every one of the women who has contact Lee has said | :31:17. | :31:24. | |
that they agreed the state pension age equality but what they have | :31:25. | :31:26. | |
objected to and what they found difficulties the way that it has | :31:27. | :31:30. | |
been implemented particularly the acceleration of the increase and | :31:31. | :31:36. | |
lack of information. Some of my constituents directly affected by | :31:37. | :31:40. | |
these changes have told me that even now they have not received any | :31:41. | :31:47. | |
communication or formal notification of the changes from the Department | :31:48. | :31:51. | |
for Work and Pensions. This is utterly unacceptable, given the | :31:52. | :31:55. | |
gravity of these changes. Posting notices on women's magazines and | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
Sunday supplements is both patronising and ineffective. None of | :32:00. | :32:04. | |
the women I spoke to our readers of such publications. They found about | :32:05. | :32:10. | |
the changes to word of mouth. As the increase in pension age is literally | :32:11. | :32:14. | |
life changing, far more notice should have been given a head of the | :32:15. | :32:19. | |
changes and the government should have ensured that everyone who is | :32:20. | :32:22. | |
affected can plan for their future. One lady I spoke to told me that she | :32:23. | :32:27. | |
had lived at the same address for the past 30 years and said that | :32:28. | :32:34. | |
there have been no excuse she had not received any thing, and | :32:35. | :32:37. | |
therefore to suggest that somehow people did know what was happening | :32:38. | :32:43. | |
is wrong. Can I thank the honourable lady for giving way. I fully | :32:44. | :32:49. | |
recognise there's obviously been a great deal of communicate -- there's | :32:50. | :32:52. | |
been a breakdown in communication from government as a whole but can I | :32:53. | :32:57. | |
ask was that she has any practical solution as to how the try and deal | :32:58. | :33:03. | |
with this. I will come onto the practical solution in the remaining | :33:04. | :33:07. | |
part of my speech. The other major concern that women have told me is | :33:08. | :33:13. | |
that even when they have been notified there hasn't been enough | :33:14. | :33:17. | |
time for these women to actually prepare for these major changes in | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
their lives. One of my constituents, who is 62 years of age, and she was | :33:22. | :33:28. | |
due to retire at 62 years and three months, however she will now have to | :33:29. | :33:32. | |
work until she is 65. Understandably this is caused a great deal of | :33:33. | :33:36. | |
distress and uncertainty for her because she had been planning to | :33:37. | :33:41. | |
retire in two months' time. A plan had been to coordinate their | :33:42. | :33:48. | |
retirement with her grandchildren so she could look after them so she | :33:49. | :33:52. | |
would not have the as the government to pay for the child care of her | :33:53. | :33:55. | |
grandchildren. By changing this around its turn her life into | :33:56. | :33:58. | |
turmoil and the government is going to end up paying for those | :33:59. | :34:03. | |
childcares. Another constituent has told me that anticipating retirement | :34:04. | :34:08. | |
at 60 she took voluntary redundancy at aged 58 and a half when her | :34:09. | :34:14. | |
company received -- was seeking to downsize. She was later informed she | :34:15. | :34:19. | |
would not be able to access her as their -- Access her state pension | :34:20. | :34:22. | |
until she is 66 years of age. She is now unemployed and riding difficulty | :34:23. | :34:26. | |
finding another job because of her rage. She has been left in financial | :34:27. | :34:31. | |
hardship as a result of not being notified about the changes to the | :34:32. | :34:34. | |
state pension age and Tully was too late. She is not just one example. | :34:35. | :34:39. | |
There are many thousands of women across the United Kingdom who are in | :34:40. | :34:45. | |
those boats. Let me go onto another discrepancy, the discrepancy of the | :34:46. | :34:49. | |
two years and two months for women born between April and December 1953 | :34:50. | :34:55. | |
is simply confusing and unfair. The Chancellor of the Exchequer was told | :34:56. | :35:00. | |
this, the government was told this in the previous debates in 2011, and | :35:01. | :35:04. | |
what it means is that for some constituents this is a difference of | :35:05. | :35:09. | |
about ?14,000, which is a lot of money for them. Again, it's not just | :35:10. | :35:15. | |
my constituents that have been affected. Women across the country | :35:16. | :35:19. | |
have been affected by this. Hundreds of thousands of women have had a | :35:20. | :35:23. | |
significant change imposed on them not just once but twice, with a lack | :35:24. | :35:28. | |
of appropriate notification and retirement plans have been shattered | :35:29. | :35:33. | |
with devastating consequences. The government seems to have failed to | :35:34. | :35:36. | |
recognise the severe impact that the speed of the implementation of these | :35:37. | :35:40. | |
changes has had on these women. These changes have not affected men | :35:41. | :35:45. | |
to the same extent, as their state pension age has not been increased | :35:46. | :35:48. | |
by such a large amount and they have had much more notice. The pensions | :35:49. | :35:52. | |
system has historically discriminate against women and these changes are | :35:53. | :35:58. | |
yet another example of this. I would ask and urge the government that now | :35:59. | :36:06. | |
in 2016 will they reconsider these provisions and try to diminish the | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
impact of these plans and make transitional arrangements which | :36:11. | :36:13. | |
would be fairer for these women affected. I have listened with great | :36:14. | :36:21. | |
interest to her speech and the speech of other members who sit | :36:22. | :36:26. | |
beside her and in particular to the references to transitional | :36:27. | :36:28. | |
arrangements. I wonder, could she help me, what does she mean by | :36:29. | :36:33. | |
transitional arrangements? What does she suggest? How much will they cost | :36:34. | :36:42. | |
and how will we find the money? Well I'm glad you've given me extra time | :36:43. | :36:50. | |
on this. I think there are many different ways that you can deal | :36:51. | :36:56. | |
with these issues. The recent one simple panacea solution to it. If | :36:57. | :37:01. | |
the government wishes to receive a comprehensive response from me as | :37:02. | :37:05. | |
the way forward I am very happy to put a very detailed as to how to | :37:06. | :37:13. | |
deal with this. I thank my honourable friend for giving way. We | :37:14. | :37:19. | |
are constantly hearing from members opposite for what is a practical | :37:20. | :37:22. | |
transition plan looked like. Surely the responsibility of government is | :37:23. | :37:28. | |
to come forward with a plan which this House can debate. This is an | :37:29. | :37:32. | |
abdication of response ability. I entirely agree with my honourable | :37:33. | :37:37. | |
friend. I think it's typical of this government's approaching these | :37:38. | :37:43. | |
things. It should be my right honourable friend would maybe recall | :37:44. | :37:49. | |
that when the bill went through in 2011 and a further transitional | :37:50. | :37:52. | |
arrangement was proposed, in October 2011 and arrangement was proposed | :37:53. | :37:57. | |
that nobody would have made -- been made to wait more than a year for | :37:58. | :38:00. | |
their pension update and that would have cost ?10 million over ten years | :38:01. | :38:05. | |
and it would have had the common state pension age coming to the | :38:06. | :38:09. | |
2022, but it was rejected by the government. Correction. I'm grateful | :38:10. | :38:15. | |
for my friend's intervention and hopefully that has helped the | :38:16. | :38:20. | |
honourable member opposite. As I said I'm very happy to pen down very | :38:21. | :38:24. | |
detailed things that can be done to help these ladies, but I would like | :38:25. | :38:28. | |
a promise from the government that when I do right they will actually | :38:29. | :38:33. | |
commend what I said. Maybe I can have that reassurance from the | :38:34. | :38:35. | |
government that when I come up with these suggestions as to how to deal | :38:36. | :38:39. | |
with the various different problems they will actually say yes, you are | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
right, the honourable member for Bolton South East has got the | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
solution and we are going to actually implement what she says. | :38:48. | :38:50. | |
Will I get that promise from the Minister? Thank you Mr Depp is | :38:51. | :38:58. | |
bigger. I wish to congratulate -- thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I wish | :38:59. | :39:02. | |
to congratulate the honourable members for securing this debate. In | :39:03. | :39:07. | |
the last few months I've met a number of constituents of mining | :39:08. | :39:10. | |
Bexhill and Beth Hill who have been impacted by these changes. These | :39:11. | :39:14. | |
constituents have detailed how the state pension increases have | :39:15. | :39:17. | |
impacted them due to being on the wrong side of the date line. I have | :39:18. | :39:22. | |
every sympathy with anyone who has been impacted by these changes. I | :39:23. | :39:27. | |
can see why there has been so much frustration from those impacted. I | :39:28. | :39:31. | |
congratulate the Waspi campaign for driving this debate. Mr Deputy | :39:32. | :39:37. | |
Speaker, while it is true that any criteria change regarding pensions, | :39:38. | :39:40. | |
benefits or taxation in general is always going to impact some, I'm | :39:41. | :39:44. | |
conscious that these individuals that we are talking about today have | :39:45. | :39:48. | |
in many circumstances worked for decades and did so on the basis that | :39:49. | :39:52. | |
their pensions would be there for them at the prescribed time. However | :39:53. | :39:57. | |
Mr Deputy Speaker, I'm also conscious that when actuaries were | :39:58. | :40:00. | |
calculating life expectancy and therefore the amount of years for | :40:01. | :40:04. | |
which a pension would pay out, they would not have calculated the life | :40:05. | :40:07. | |
expectancy levels which are currently being enjoyed. Neither | :40:08. | :40:12. | |
would the rising levels of health been -- have been appreciated. These | :40:13. | :40:16. | |
factors have therefore driven successive governments and most OECD | :40:17. | :40:19. | |
nations to increase the state pension age. With the honourable | :40:20. | :40:26. | |
member not accept though that life expectancy is not the same for | :40:27. | :40:31. | |
everybody everywhere and there are places in Glasgow where life | :40:32. | :40:33. | |
expectancy is significantly lower than other parts of the country? | :40:34. | :40:39. | |
Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker. I absolutely do take that point. But I | :40:40. | :40:44. | |
think it would be naive not to recognise that as we do live | :40:45. | :40:47. | |
healthier lives and would expect to live healthier lives than we are not | :40:48. | :40:50. | |
only able to work longer but we would want to work longer in | :40:51. | :40:54. | |
addition to that as well. I will make some progress, if I may. Mr | :40:55. | :40:59. | |
Deputy Speaker, the question therefore remains, what if anything | :41:00. | :41:03. | |
can be done to lessen the impact on those who will have to now work | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
longer before qualifying for their state pension. I make particular | :41:09. | :41:12. | |
reference to those whom it can be demonstrated were not notified as | :41:13. | :41:17. | |
they should have been on overtime. Thank you. Would my honourable | :41:18. | :41:23. | |
friend agree with me and constituents in my constituency of | :41:24. | :41:27. | |
Eastleigh that that notice period for some of these women was simply | :41:28. | :41:32. | |
far too short and that we hope to hear also from the Minister today | :41:33. | :41:35. | |
agreeing that it's a great cause of regret from those, for those women | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
that the largest group of state pension age increases got less than | :41:41. | :41:46. | |
sadly eight years to plan for this? I thank my honourable friend is | :41:47. | :41:49. | |
making that point and I know she's led a campaign in her constituency | :41:50. | :41:52. | |
to descend and it would be ideal to hear from a minister. I believe is | :41:53. | :41:56. | |
the pensions act requires ten years' notification for the 95 change I | :41:57. | :42:02. | |
believe 15 years was implemented but for the 2011 my understanding is as | :42:03. | :42:05. | |
my honourable friend has mentioned it has been a to five years and | :42:06. | :42:09. | |
having not been in this place at that time I'm very keen to find out | :42:10. | :42:10. | |
more. Where I have issues with the motion | :42:11. | :42:19. | |
is that whilst I agree very much with the concerns being raised I do | :42:20. | :42:23. | |
not ultimately see a remedy before us. Having stood on a manifesto | :42:24. | :42:28. | |
commitment which pledged to deliver our budget surplus by 2020 it would | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
mean that compensating for this matter would have to be paid for by | :42:33. | :42:38. | |
another group of my constituents. I have real concerns over another age | :42:39. | :42:43. | |
group in my constituency, those in their 20s and 30s who are sometimes | :42:44. | :42:47. | |
referred to as the packhorse generation. Because they asked at | :42:48. | :42:52. | |
all the debts from university, which I and many others from my age group | :42:53. | :42:56. | |
and above did not have to endure. They are not in receipt of | :42:57. | :43:00. | |
occupational pension schemes, they are paying high rent levels and | :43:01. | :43:03. | |
struggling to afford a home of their own. They are perhaps also likely to | :43:04. | :43:09. | |
be the subject of future changes in decades to come if life expectancy | :43:10. | :43:14. | |
levels continue to increase. I will not, I will make some progress if I | :43:15. | :43:18. | |
may, with respect. Whilst I would be keen for the government to assess | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
what more can be done to help those women who are being impacted by the | :43:23. | :43:26. | |
pension changes, I am conscious that before my election to this place the | :43:27. | :43:31. | |
government conducted a review and allocated over ?1 billion to | :43:32. | :43:35. | |
mitigate against the worst affected. Further mitigation, if introduced, | :43:36. | :43:39. | |
would then reveal the next class of age group to be impacted and we will | :43:40. | :43:43. | |
never move on. If the manifesto of my government is to be enacted this | :43:44. | :43:47. | |
further mitigation would have be paid for by others in society in the | :43:48. | :43:53. | |
form of increased taxes. So Mr Deputy Speaker, to conclude, the | :43:54. | :43:56. | |
issues of pensions is becoming increasingly vexed. Let expectancy | :43:57. | :44:02. | |
post retirement is now much longer than envisaged when pensions | :44:03. | :44:06. | |
calculators were put in place. Additionally and with the advances | :44:07. | :44:10. | |
made to allow those in their 60s to remain fit and active, many people | :44:11. | :44:13. | |
in their 60s and beyond are working in a manner which would not have | :44:14. | :44:17. | |
been envisaged when the pension calculator is put in place. This is | :44:18. | :44:21. | |
a general change in life and working age expectancy and one which we will | :44:22. | :44:26. | |
rightly celebrate as it shows people are living longer and leading fitter | :44:27. | :44:28. | |
lives in advanced years. However it means there is a funding | :44:29. | :44:44. | |
gap and to avoid placing the financial obligation on those | :44:45. | :44:46. | |
currently struggling to get on in their 20s and 30s, it required the | :44:47. | :44:49. | |
country to revise the pension age to take into account the changes in | :44:50. | :44:56. | |
life and work expectancy. By forcing these women to work until 66 he is | :44:57. | :45:02. | |
contradicting himself because that is one of the reason people of my | :45:03. | :45:06. | |
age cannot find work because it is being taken by those trying to | :45:07. | :45:11. | |
secure some sort of income. I thank you for your point but I don't | :45:12. | :45:15. | |
agree. If this change had not been implemented there would be ?30 | :45:16. | :45:17. | |
billion having to be found elsewhere. I think, where would that | :45:18. | :45:25. | |
money come from? If not from the generation previous? I will continue | :45:26. | :45:32. | |
to make progress but for me it's a complete contradiction to say that | :45:33. | :45:34. | |
on the one hand something needs to be done but on the other that it | :45:35. | :45:38. | |
won't impact other taxpayers over the generations. To finalise Mr | :45:39. | :45:43. | |
Deputy Speaker I do have the greatest of sympathy for those | :45:44. | :45:47. | |
caught by the changes and have to revise the planned accordingly. This | :45:48. | :45:50. | |
however is a settled matter and I worry about the impact on others if | :45:51. | :46:00. | |
changes are now made. Have a million women and over three and a half | :46:01. | :46:02. | |
thousand of those living in my constituency in Swansea... It be a | :46:03. | :46:07. | |
five and a half minute on it from on. Thank you, we are asking this | :46:08. | :46:12. | |
government why they have to wait six years longer for the state pension. | :46:13. | :46:17. | |
In their lives they paid national insurance expecting the pension at | :46:18. | :46:22. | |
60 and at that age, it was fixed in 1940 and it was five years younger | :46:23. | :46:27. | |
than men. In 1995 the Conservative government set out a timetable to | :46:28. | :46:33. | |
equalise the pension age for men and women at 65. It fixed the start date | :46:34. | :46:39. | |
15 years ahead to April 2010 and first in the changes slowly so only | :46:40. | :46:47. | |
from April 2020 where women were born in April 1955 would not get | :46:48. | :46:52. | |
their state pension until 65. The changes were largely ignored except | :46:53. | :46:55. | |
for a small section in the financial section of a broadsheet. The women | :46:56. | :47:01. | |
are affected, then age 45, were not warned about it by the Social | :47:02. | :47:08. | |
Security. One of my consist giants has sent Bible information and I | :47:09. | :47:15. | |
would like to thank them -- one of my constituents has sent Bible | :47:16. | :47:20. | |
information. The job market, many are forced to accept zero hour | :47:21. | :47:24. | |
contracts which offer no financial security. Would my honourable friend | :47:25. | :47:28. | |
agree that these women, the backbone of this country, have been betrayed | :47:29. | :47:37. | |
by the party opposite? I certainly would. In 19952020 seemed a long | :47:38. | :47:43. | |
time away. Then in 2007 Labour government decided to increase the | :47:44. | :47:49. | |
retirement age for men and women to 66 but included a caveat. That no | :47:50. | :47:56. | |
changes would be made until 2024. Then in 2011 the Coalition | :47:57. | :48:01. | |
Government, they reneged, unsurprisingly, on that caveat and | :48:02. | :48:05. | |
set a new timetable which was tough on women and broke a pledge that | :48:06. | :48:09. | |
there would be no change until after 2020. With the honourable lady | :48:10. | :48:16. | |
access that it is not the only way in which older women have been | :48:17. | :48:19. | |
discriminated against, the raising of the tax threshold disadvantages | :48:20. | :48:24. | |
women more than other groups, the pay gap is bigger than any other, we | :48:25. | :48:30. | |
need to hear more clearly the voice of older women in politics because | :48:31. | :48:33. | |
it's being completely ignored by this government. I agree entirely | :48:34. | :48:39. | |
and would consider myself to be in the age group to be an older women | :48:40. | :48:42. | |
in politics. LAUGHTER Thank you. Have a million women have | :48:43. | :48:51. | |
their pension postponed further in 2011. -- have a million. One of | :48:52. | :48:57. | |
those affected is a lady called Lynn Phillips, she was born in 1954 and I | :48:58. | :49:02. | |
think she is in the gallery, she will be almost 65 and eight months | :49:03. | :49:08. | |
when she gets her pension in January 20 20. Almost six years after she | :49:09. | :49:13. | |
originally expected it. In May last year when she was 60 it was only in | :49:14. | :49:20. | |
2011 that she read about the new plans and realised that her state | :49:21. | :49:24. | |
pension had already been raised to 64 and she was sock to to discover | :49:25. | :49:29. | |
it would be pushed further 18 months into the future until she was 65 and | :49:30. | :49:37. | |
a half. Altogether have million women face an extra delay of more | :49:38. | :49:43. | |
than one year and 300,000 face an extra weight of 18 months. The delay | :49:44. | :49:51. | |
will cost them in excess of ?12,000 each in loss state pension. This | :49:52. | :49:55. | |
money is very difficult to replace. Few have country company pensions | :49:56. | :50:02. | |
because many companies excluded women and part-timers from the | :50:03. | :50:07. | |
schemes. About half of women between the age group were not in work, many | :50:08. | :50:11. | |
of them as we have already heard were the backbone of this country, | :50:12. | :50:17. | |
caring for children and heard orally relatives. Finding a part-time job | :50:18. | :50:22. | |
in the current situation, or a low paid job is ludicrous. The changes | :50:23. | :50:29. | |
to women are categorically unfair. And unjust. Lending, along with | :50:30. | :50:35. | |
other affected women started to campaign to push this government | :50:36. | :50:40. | |
into a compromise agreement for those who are most affected. | :50:41. | :50:44. | |
Possibly in the form of a transitional payment which from my | :50:45. | :50:48. | |
understanding the secretary of state of the DWP in 2011 promised to look | :50:49. | :50:52. | |
at. Surprise, surprise, they never did. It is this campaign which have | :50:53. | :51:00. | |
been the inspiration behind this debate. They other ones who have | :51:01. | :51:04. | |
made us sit up and think. Each one of us will be able to tell | :51:05. | :51:10. | |
constituents who has been affected by this gross injustice. Women who | :51:11. | :51:14. | |
have worked and paid a contribution or those who have spent the majority | :51:15. | :51:18. | |
of their adult lives bringing up the children of this nation, each will | :51:19. | :51:21. | |
have different circumstances but they will all tell you that had they | :51:22. | :51:26. | |
been written to in 1995 and told of the changes they would have made | :51:27. | :51:30. | |
appropriate arrangements at that time. Accepts that the pension age | :51:31. | :51:37. | |
must rise as people live longer but they argue, and I feel most on the | :51:38. | :51:40. | |
side of the house would agree, that it is not fair to women who are not | :51:41. | :51:47. | |
personally informed in either 1995 or 2011. But beware, they have a | :51:48. | :51:52. | |
sting in their tail. Given the power of the argument and the ability to | :51:53. | :51:57. | |
attract the attention of many in this place, there are demands for | :51:58. | :52:01. | |
fairness is a very compelling argument. It is a simple message and | :52:02. | :52:06. | |
the only ask for fairness. I would say to the Minister, do not | :52:07. | :52:10. | |
underestimate the power of that lobby. They have managed to mobilise | :52:11. | :52:18. | |
over 107,000 signatures to a petition for in excess of what is | :52:19. | :52:22. | |
needed to be heard in this chamber. They managed to raise funds through | :52:23. | :52:27. | |
crowdfunding to engage the services of a barrister in four days and from | :52:28. | :52:34. | |
eye contact with them I can tell you they want justice. The bars in the | :52:35. | :52:38. | |
air from the campaign will not rest until they get it. | :52:39. | :52:48. | |
Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker, may I first of all congratulate the | :52:49. | :52:53. | |
honourable member for Paisley renders you south for securing this | :52:54. | :53:02. | |
debate -- Paisley Renfrewshire South. I also congratulate the | :53:03. | :53:05. | |
magnificent campaign, had they not done this idea it would have gone an | :53:06. | :53:14. | |
noticed. The state pension age for women increased from 60 to 65 over a | :53:15. | :53:23. | |
period April 2010-2020. It was not a short notice change, 15 years but in | :53:24. | :53:29. | |
a debate in October 2013 the Minister Steve Webb accepted that | :53:30. | :53:33. | |
some women did not know about it at the time. They went on to say that | :53:34. | :53:37. | |
although it was all over the papers at the time, these women were a long | :53:38. | :53:41. | |
way from pension age and probably turned the page when they saw the | :53:42. | :53:46. | |
word pension. What a Labour government to expect people to find | :53:47. | :53:50. | |
out. The Coalition Government legislated in the pensions act 2011 | :53:51. | :53:59. | |
to accelerate the rate raised to 65 in November 2000 and 18. It also | :54:00. | :54:06. | |
intended to equalise state pension, with then rise to 66 by April 20 20. | :54:07. | :54:13. | |
But this was amended during the debate, Rachel Reeves the Shadow | :54:14. | :54:17. | |
minister expressed concerns and largely because of that it was | :54:18. | :54:21. | |
amended and they got a repeat of six months. Government seems to think | :54:22. | :54:26. | |
that is some compensation. I will not see much of the impact because I | :54:27. | :54:32. | |
think we all know that we should do. One of my constituents and a leading | :54:33. | :54:38. | |
campaigner is sat in the gallery today, she wrote to me and said... | :54:39. | :54:45. | |
Order, I didn't mean to do this and I have tried to ignore it but you | :54:46. | :54:48. | |
are not meant to make reference to the gallery. As much as we | :54:49. | :54:52. | |
appreciate them being here it's meant to be about the chamber. I | :54:53. | :54:57. | |
will not do so again Mr Deputy Speaker. LAUGHTER | :54:58. | :55:02. | |
Women affected were not informed of changes to the system so it came as | :55:03. | :55:07. | |
a complete shock when she discovered that her plans for retirement were | :55:08. | :55:11. | |
in tatters 18 months before her 60th birthday. In 2012 she received a | :55:12. | :55:18. | |
letter saying my new state pension age was 63 years and eight months, I | :55:19. | :55:23. | |
was absolutely shocked because I haven't been told about it before. | :55:24. | :55:28. | |
She explained people had been caught out at you to mismanagement on the | :55:29. | :55:33. | |
half of the DWP following the changes to pension law in 1995 and | :55:34. | :55:40. | |
2011. They said they were caught out in 2011 when the further increase | :55:41. | :55:43. | |
was introduced again and claim with little modification there retirement | :55:44. | :55:50. | |
age. She goes on to say that many women having to dip into their | :55:51. | :55:54. | |
savings to survive. Not relax and enjoy retirement as they had | :55:55. | :56:01. | |
intended and planned. And less people requested a pension forecast | :56:02. | :56:06. | |
they would not have known at all. All we are asking for is fair, | :56:07. | :56:11. | |
transitional arrangement, some consideration. They have raised very | :56:12. | :56:14. | |
important concerns about the changes affected millions of women born | :56:15. | :56:19. | |
throughout the 1950s who are unfairly bearing the burden of the | :56:20. | :56:26. | |
increase in state pension age. In 2000 for the DWP research saw that | :56:27. | :56:31. | |
only 43% of those affected by 1995 were able to identify their | :56:32. | :56:41. | |
retirement age. In 2008 there was a social reform that less than 43% | :56:42. | :56:51. | |
were aware of. It has left many women in financial hardship. She | :56:52. | :56:56. | |
goes on to say and this is really concerning Mr Deputy Speaker, Madam | :56:57. | :57:00. | |
Deputy Speaker LAUGHTER She points out that the privileged | :57:01. | :57:06. | |
people such as ours, MPs, judges and civil servants have had their | :57:07. | :57:10. | |
occupational pensions protected for those within ten years of their | :57:11. | :57:15. | |
normal retirement age. So why are women not being treated the same? | :57:16. | :57:21. | |
Why are they not afforded the same protection? Looking ahead, ten years | :57:22. | :57:25. | |
notice would be given for any future changes to the state pension age to | :57:26. | :57:28. | |
cope with changes circumstances, is that not an admission that this was | :57:29. | :57:34. | |
wrong? Government has said it will not be revisiting the state pension | :57:35. | :57:42. | |
age arrangements for women affected by the 1995 or 2011 act. Madam | :57:43. | :57:47. | |
Deputy Speaker these women have been dealt a severe in just blow and the | :57:48. | :57:54. | |
government must revisit this and address, give some attention and | :57:55. | :57:58. | |
give some address to these complaints. | :57:59. | :58:04. | |
I'm concerned to start with just that some of the members opposite, | :58:05. | :58:09. | |
who have spoken and in this debate colours appear to have missed much | :58:10. | :58:13. | |
of the main point of it. For clarity can I remind them of the opening | :58:14. | :58:18. | |
line of the motion, that this House, while welcoming the equalisation of | :58:19. | :58:22. | |
the state pension age. I don't dig anyone is suggesting there is in the | :58:23. | :58:27. | |
real argument to be made for equalisation of the pension age of | :58:28. | :58:29. | |
wet men and women and serious long-term pressures which make it | :58:30. | :58:32. | |
something which should be addressed with some degree of urgency, but | :58:33. | :58:36. | |
there is a fairness argument to be made about the way in which it | :58:37. | :58:41. | |
should be done. I also have had a succession of constituents | :58:42. | :58:43. | |
contacting me about this, a succession of women who appreciate | :58:44. | :58:47. | |
that action needs to be taken but who are now exasperated at a later | :58:48. | :58:51. | |
by the continual shifting of the goalposts and what they see as the | :58:52. | :58:55. | |
unfairness of not knowing where the finishing line will be, just to mix | :58:56. | :58:59. | |
my sporting metaphors. Not knowing where they are likely to be able to | :59:00. | :59:05. | |
retire. They have accepted the first change is something which had to | :59:06. | :59:08. | |
happen which adversely affected them perhaps, but they were persuaded | :59:09. | :59:12. | |
that changes needed to take place. I'm not trying to claim they were | :59:13. | :59:15. | |
delighted but they did at least accepted. What worries them and | :59:16. | :59:20. | |
women throughout the UK is that the first change proved not to be | :59:21. | :59:22. | |
sufficient, that the second came without warning, and that there is | :59:23. | :59:28. | |
no guarantee all probability of belief even that this will be the | :59:29. | :59:33. | |
final change. These are women as has been mentioned who worked through | :59:34. | :59:35. | |
times when the working environment for women was far harsher than it is | :59:36. | :59:40. | |
now even, who suffered a more blatant sexism that is the case for | :59:41. | :59:42. | |
younger women entering the workplace now. I'm grateful to her giving way | :59:43. | :59:50. | |
and she's making a powerful case about how unfair the situation is. | :59:51. | :59:54. | |
Would she agree there's a particular unfairness for women be born between | :59:55. | :00:01. | |
1951-53, like my constituent Kirby, left off worse off on a weekly basis | :00:02. | :00:06. | |
because she will not qualify for the state pension whereas men will cut | :00:07. | :00:09. | |
and it would be simple to solve the problem by allowing women in her | :00:10. | :00:17. | |
position to opt for the single tier pension. My honourable friend makes | :00:18. | :00:24. | |
a good point. Women were forced to accept being passed over for | :00:25. | :00:28. | |
promotion, some of fighting for compensation for unequal pay, who | :00:29. | :00:31. | |
were given frankly scant consideration when pregnancy and | :00:32. | :00:35. | |
mother had forced time away from the workplace. They surely deserve a | :00:36. | :00:38. | |
little more consideration from the government than they have been given | :00:39. | :00:43. | |
so far. For picking yourself up and getting yourself back into the | :00:44. | :00:46. | |
workplace with the same as you have before get smaller and more | :00:47. | :00:48. | |
difficult if you keep feeling that you are getting kicked back at every | :00:49. | :00:55. | |
turn. I would accept that Barras -- Baroness Altman has a track record | :00:56. | :00:58. | |
of campaigning to see some justice in this field and I welcome the fact | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
we have someone with such a track record as pensions minister, but she | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
appears to be a lonely figure in this government. The pressure being | :01:08. | :01:09. | |
applied by the Chancellor and the Prime Minister to drive down public | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
spending means that little can be done by the Baroness on her own. The | :01:13. | :01:18. | |
strange what I would call worship of the austerity idle con strains | :01:19. | :01:25. | |
anything that looked like fairness or help for the poor or | :01:26. | :01:29. | |
disadvantaged. With the government has ordered its benefits in full | :01:30. | :01:32. | |
flight we should remember that pensions and pensioners account for | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
the largest share of benefits spending in the UK and that the | :01:37. | :01:42. | |
Chancellor, yes, of course. The with the honourable lady agree that | :01:43. | :01:44. | |
giving the Coalition Government minister Steve Webb was aware and | :01:45. | :01:49. | |
indicated that not everyone affected by the changes were aware of them, | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
the government must take responsibility for that and | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
questions must be asked as to why women were not more fully informed | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
by the government and why they were left in the dark for so long. I | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
agree with my honourable friend and I look forward to the Minister | :02:05. | :02:06. | |
addressing those points when he comes to speak later. With the | :02:07. | :02:11. | |
government assault against benefits in full flight we should remember | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
pensions and pensioners account for the largest share of benefits | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
spending in the UK and the Chancellor's gimlet eye will turn | :02:20. | :02:22. | |
inexorably towards pension provision when the other stones have been bled | :02:23. | :02:26. | |
dry. I don't think any working woman is asking for special treatment on | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
her pension. I certainly don't think that any of the women that contacted | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
those many women who have contacted their MPs with concerns over these | :02:36. | :02:39. | |
changes is a shirker or a scrounger. They simply want a bit of fairness | :02:40. | :02:45. | |
and a sound knowledge of what the future is likely to bring. Women who | :02:46. | :02:49. | |
started their working lives under one set of pension rules look like | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
they may finish their working lives under the third set of pension rules | :02:54. | :02:57. | |
of providing there is no further changes down the line. Providing | :02:58. | :03:01. | |
these women with as much certainty as can be mustered and kicking sure | :03:02. | :03:06. | |
that they will not lose financially has to be the watchword for the | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
government over these changes. A gentle transition as has been | :03:11. | :03:13. | |
suggested would be far more in keeping with making sure we don't | :03:14. | :03:16. | |
act Sasse Beit pensioner poverty or drive more of -- exacerbate | :03:17. | :03:21. | |
pensioner poverty or drive more of the most vulnerable members of | :03:22. | :03:24. | |
society into poverty. I urge the government and the Minister to keep | :03:25. | :03:32. | |
that in mind. Thank you very much, Madame Deputy Speaker. I'd like to | :03:33. | :03:34. | |
start by congratulating my honourable friend the member for | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
Paisley -- Paisley and Renfrewshire South for securing this important | :03:40. | :03:41. | |
debate and for moving the motion with such an impassioned articulate | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
and typically powerful speech. I must also pay tribute to the | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
honourable member for Worsley and Eccles so her speech and for her | :03:51. | :03:57. | |
co-signature of this motion. Also a tribute to pay to my noble friend | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
the member is the members for the coldly and Ross Tara Moore caber who | :04:02. | :04:03. | |
have consistently and effectively raised this issue since their | :04:04. | :04:10. | |
election in May. In the same token I must pay tribute to the work of the | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
Women Against State Pension Inequality up their campaign to urge | :04:15. | :04:17. | |
this government is to make a fair transitional state pension | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
arrangements for women born after the 6th of April 1951 and in | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
particular I think it's important to pay and show our appreciation to Ann | :04:26. | :04:28. | |
keen, the person who first raised this petition on this issue after | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
receiving a letter from the DWP to say that her expected retirement age | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
had been increased. Far from 15 or indeed five years' notice, she was | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
only given 18 months before her 60th birthday. What an absolute scandal | :04:44. | :04:47. | |
and disgrace. The petition last night had over 107, I imagine | :04:48. | :04:54. | |
approaching 108,000 signatures now, a true testament to all those whose | :04:55. | :04:57. | |
whole have worked hard to bring this to the government's attention | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
including constituents of mine in Airdrie and short. This government | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
is shifting the goalposts at such short notice for hard-working women. | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
Women who have gone to work, who have bettered our industries, women | :05:12. | :05:15. | |
who have raised children, who are supported families, who have not had | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
equal employment opportunities, which created independent pension | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
funds, or had access to independent pension funds as we have today. | :05:25. | :05:27. | |
Women who have simply not had the opportunities we have. Women who | :05:28. | :05:32. | |
have made enormous contributions to our society to the betterment of us | :05:33. | :05:40. | |
all. These women will feed the retirement age rise without fair or | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
proper notice. Yes, I will. Will he agree with me that the government | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
Minister must come to the dispatch box and explain the constituents of | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
mine in Livingston, some of whom have raised the issue back they have | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
retired up and finish their employment before they had heard the | :05:58. | :06:00. | |
news and many had not had time to prepare or save before this news was | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
upon them. I absolutely agree sadly this is a typical story which has | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
been played out across this chamber today, so I wholeheartedly agree. | :06:11. | :06:14. | |
It's this simple but dramatic injustice that is so galling. The | :06:15. | :06:19. | |
truth is that women born in the 1950s will be disproportionately | :06:20. | :06:22. | |
burdened by the government's plan for many reasons, not least because | :06:23. | :06:27. | |
men of the same age are and have long been a better position to at | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
through savings private defined through savings private defined | :06:32. | :06:37. | |
contribution pension scheme. The pensions policy in their submission | :06:38. | :06:42. | |
to the DWP select committee on the government's pension reforms | :06:43. | :06:45. | |
outlined this very point further by illustrating that only 65% of women | :06:46. | :06:51. | |
in the 55-59 year age range are economically active, compared to | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
around 76% of men, and the gap is even more prevalent when considering | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
those in the 60-64 age bracket, where 34% of women are currently | :07:01. | :07:08. | |
active compared to 54% of men. I thank you for giving way and he's | :07:09. | :07:11. | |
making excellent points. Would he agree with me that some of the | :07:12. | :07:14. | |
members opposite seem not to recognise the sense of injustice and | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
grievance that there is a most women born in the mid-19 50s, women like | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
Andrea Gregory and Wilma in my constituency have I've worked all | :07:24. | :07:26. | |
their lives, paid all their taxes and have had their retirement | :07:27. | :07:29. | |
postponed by the state not once, but twice. The word they use is robbery. | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
They feel they are being made to pay for financial crisis that was not of | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
their making. I absolutely wholeheartedly agree. I have to say | :07:40. | :07:42. | |
there have been some very noteworthy speeches from the benches opposite | :07:43. | :07:49. | |
but some sadly but haven't met the same standard of some of their | :07:50. | :07:52. | |
colleagues and I hope the minister when he comes to the dispatch box | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
will show some contrition here and bring forward some transitional | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
arrangements. Many women who have had their retirement plans shattered | :08:03. | :08:05. | |
will be forced through no fault of their own to accept zero hours | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
contracts, temporary and low paid contracts which offer no financial | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
security and poor return for the label what are the time they | :08:14. | :08:16. | |
relatively recently expected to be enjoying a hard earned retirement. | :08:17. | :08:19. | |
Little if any sort has been shown for the many women who care for | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
their grandchildren, adult -- elderly relatives, who show it's not | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
always possible to return to work in these circumstances and at this time | :08:29. | :08:34. | |
of their lives. My -- I and my colleagues and members from all | :08:35. | :08:39. | |
sides of the house agree with the equalisation of the state pension | :08:40. | :08:41. | |
age, it is however the increased speed of these plans that is of so | :08:42. | :08:47. | |
much concern, with poor notice and no transition. The government is | :08:48. | :08:50. | |
betraying women and I'm frankly worried we will see further undue | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
hardship if the government does not address the inequality so blatantly | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
evident it would appear that by not transitioning this is another | :08:59. | :09:01. | |
example of the government making cuts in pursuit of their budget | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
surplus holy Grail without any consideration of the impact. In | :09:07. | :09:09. | |
conclusion the government must take some responsibility for their | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
failure to notify, not to notify and fully prepare women follow longer | :09:15. | :09:18. | |
wait. This means bringing forward traditional -- traditional | :09:19. | :09:21. | |
protection and writing injustice for those already and set to be | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
impacted. I hope we won't get the same complacent ministerial reply to | :09:26. | :09:29. | |
the recent Westminster Hall debate I was involved in. The government are | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
being warned here today this campaign will not go away. The women | :09:34. | :09:39. | |
in the Waspi campaign will fight this all the way and will be | :09:40. | :09:42. | |
supported wholeheartedly by my colleagues on the SNP benches and | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
the benches next door on the Labour side. The government needs to sort | :09:48. | :09:50. | |
this out with the same speed by which they deliver tax cuts for the | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
rich when they got the opportunity, all this government will forever be | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
remembered for its betrayal of pensioners and female pensioners in | :09:59. | :10:04. | |
particular. Order, I'm sorry to say I will have to drop the speech limit | :10:05. | :10:08. | |
down to three minutes and ask people to keep interventions to an absolute | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
minimum, and that starts from now in order we can wind up in time. It's a | :10:13. | :10:18. | |
pleasure to take part in this backbench business committee debate. | :10:19. | :10:21. | |
I commend the honourable lady for her opening remarks. I pay tribute | :10:22. | :10:27. | |
to the Waspi campaign and in particular to Mhairi and all the | :10:28. | :10:33. | |
other ladies that helps campaign on this very important issue. I've | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
worked long and hard with them over the past few months. We've had | :10:38. | :10:40. | |
meetings with my honourable friend the member for Eccles and Worsley | :10:41. | :10:46. | |
and my honourable friend on the Labour front bench. I've lobbied my | :10:47. | :10:54. | |
own constituents with the Waspi group in Morrisons in Denton | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
recently and indeed I think I was the first Madame Deputy Speaker to | :10:59. | :11:01. | |
raise this issue at Prime Minister's Question Time in this Parliament, so | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
I'm very glad it's now been brought to the floor of the house in a full | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
debate, because there has been a very real injustice done to this | :11:11. | :11:16. | |
group of women from the 1950s. We can go through all the history | :11:17. | :11:20. | |
again. There have been two changes to their state pension age and if | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
that bad enough the real injustice to them as been the acceleration of | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
the process, which has really left lots of women who weren't expecting | :11:30. | :11:39. | |
to have these changes to have to make alternative arrangements. And | :11:40. | :11:41. | |
that is where the real injustice lies. Because when it came to the | :11:42. | :11:48. | |
private pensions of Members of Parliament, those that were within | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
ten years of their normal state pension age were able to remain on | :11:54. | :11:57. | |
the old scheme, but when it comes to this group of women they have had no | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
chance whatsoever to be able to put in place their own alternative | :12:03. | :12:05. | |
arrangements. I will give way. We have been asked what the | :12:06. | :12:14. | |
transitional arrangement would be that I have given examples, some | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
countries have rich pensions, some look after people made redundant, | :12:20. | :12:22. | |
it's up to the government to have done this, to come up with some | :12:23. | :12:28. | |
ideas. My honourable friend is absolutely right, let's go back to | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
2011 when this pensions act was being debated in this House of | :12:34. | :12:36. | |
Commons. It was the current Secretary of State who said himself, | :12:37. | :12:42. | |
and I quote, we will consider a transitional arrangement. Where are | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
they? Because those ladies are still waiting, it's about time the | :12:48. | :12:50. | |
minister came to this dispatch box and set out what these transitional | :12:51. | :12:53. | |
arrangements are going to be because these women cannot wait forever. I | :12:54. | :12:59. | |
have to say Madam Deputy Speaker that we have already had the first | :13:00. | :13:02. | |
U-turn from the former pensions minister who said he wasn't properly | :13:03. | :13:08. | |
briefed, that says a lot about the calibre of Liberal Democrat | :13:09. | :13:10. | |
ministers in the former Coalition Government but now we have pensions | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
minister in the other place who was a champion for these ladies up until | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
the point she took the Queen 's shelling and now says she cannot do | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
anything about it. What nonsense, what is the point of having a | :13:24. | :13:27. | |
minister if a minister can do anything about it! It is time | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
ministers in the Department for Work and Pensions actually got off their | :13:32. | :13:34. | |
backsides and did something to help these women because I will end | :13:35. | :13:42. | |
following on from my honourable friend, some friendly advice to the | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
Minister and I appreciate it's not his area of responsibility, it's the | :13:48. | :13:50. | |
noble lady at the other end who speaks on pensions issues, but mine | :13:51. | :13:56. | |
honourable friend likened the ladies to wasps and I would say to him | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
this, wasps can be pests, nuisances and cannot be easily bashed away and | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
when you do they get angry and come back. And if you really annoy them | :14:07. | :14:10. | |
they will sting you, and unlike bees they can sting you more than once! | :14:11. | :14:14. | |
Lets have some justice for these ladies because it is long overdue! I | :14:15. | :14:20. | |
would like to congratulate my honourable friend from my | :14:21. | :14:23. | |
neighbouring constituency for bringing this debate to the house to | :14:24. | :14:28. | |
the backbench committee and opening the debate so power play. Is -- | :14:29. | :14:35. | |
power play. I have learned of women affected by this, unable to afford | :14:36. | :14:42. | |
the necessary housing repairs and stories of marriages breaking up due | :14:43. | :14:46. | |
to financial pressures forced upon them through no fault of their own. | :14:47. | :14:47. | |
I met I am grateful, will he agree it is | :14:48. | :15:15. | |
frankly ridiculous that women should have such short notice or no notice | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
at all. One of my constituents found out she had an extra six years to | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
wait from her insurance salesman, not from the government. I could not | :15:25. | :15:31. | |
agree more, I have just received an e-mail in the last hour from a | :15:32. | :15:35. | |
constituent who turns 60 in March and was not aware of these changes | :15:36. | :15:39. | |
and will be meeting with me tomorrow at surgery. It's still going on and | :15:40. | :15:43. | |
afraid. My shorter contribution to this debate will centre on the idea | :15:44. | :15:48. | |
of fairness. It's only fair that both sexes receive the state pension | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
at the same age but the rapid rise in the age of eligibility has been | :15:53. | :15:55. | |
and therefore hard-working men and women who have paid into the system | :15:56. | :16:00. | |
all their lives expecting in good faith... Would my honourable friend | :16:01. | :16:04. | |
agree that the changes to the state pension that women are finding out | :16:05. | :16:08. | |
that retirement is for, five, six years brother away than expected | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
that this doesn't just lead to financial difficulties, it is | :16:13. | :16:15. | |
actually cruel and heartless and comes in the context of a lifetime | :16:16. | :16:22. | |
of inequality and Lope faced by party many women? That point has | :16:23. | :16:30. | |
been made, I have had to delete that section from my speech due to time | :16:31. | :16:33. | |
on it so I am glad she has made the point for me. The combination of the | :16:34. | :16:42. | |
equalisation and increasing the pension age has been devastating for | :16:43. | :16:47. | |
someone in. Madam Deputy Speaker, as I already stated, Waspy have no | :16:48. | :16:55. | |
problem with the policy but its implementation. These changes have | :16:56. | :16:57. | |
had a significant impact on a large group of women. The changes mean | :16:58. | :17:04. | |
some women make up to wait an additional six years until they | :17:05. | :17:07. | |
receive a state pension. From the first day of their working lives | :17:08. | :17:11. | |
these women have been advised to plan accordingly and that the last | :17:12. | :17:13. | |
minute the government have altered the plans these women have had for | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
years. This is why women feel deeply aggrieved and betrayed by the | :17:19. | :17:24. | |
actions of subsequent governments. The Secretary of State for Work and | :17:25. | :17:27. | |
Pensions, in answer to my written question for the communication of | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
these changes, replied that the DWP wrote to all individuals are | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
affected to inform them of these changes. However from speaking to | :17:36. | :17:38. | |
Waspy and local constituents this does not appear to have happen in | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
the scale or degree indicated by the Secretary of State. Women said they | :17:44. | :17:46. | |
received the letter far too late with only a few months notice of the | :17:47. | :17:52. | |
pension age increasing. I have also heard of a letter being sent to the | :17:53. | :17:55. | |
wrong address and in one case a constituent at my surgery who had no | :17:56. | :18:00. | |
knowledge whatever of the changes made. It has come to light the | :18:01. | :18:07. | |
government only informed women affected 14 years after the changes | :18:08. | :18:13. | |
were made. Would the honourable member Agri there has been some | :18:14. | :18:19. | |
maladministration, I have just heard from our constituent who received a | :18:20. | :18:23. | |
letter when she turned 52 say her retirement age or be in 2004, she | :18:24. | :18:28. | |
was born in 1954, most unfair she has not only been losing out but has | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
been misinformed. There seems to be a catalogue of women that this has | :18:33. | :18:40. | |
happened to, it's a disgrace. I make the point we encourage individuals | :18:41. | :18:44. | |
to plan for the future but if during their working lives the government | :18:45. | :18:48. | |
makes changes to state pension it's only appropriate and fair that the | :18:49. | :18:50. | |
government communicate these changes adequately. I called one of my | :18:51. | :18:56. | |
constituents yesterday and asked how they would like the government to | :18:57. | :18:59. | |
respond to this issue and her own request was simple, she wants the | :19:00. | :19:04. | |
government to accept it made the change to hard and fast. This should | :19:05. | :19:08. | |
not be a difficult concession in the previous pension minister has | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
already accepted mistakes were made. It's important the government | :19:13. | :19:15. | |
learned from them stakes made and reviews the way changes are | :19:16. | :19:19. | |
introduced. We need clear channels of medication between the DWP and | :19:20. | :19:23. | |
individuals when it comes to matters relating to pensions. I hear all too | :19:24. | :19:27. | |
often that the information sent out is confusing and unclear. I would | :19:28. | :19:30. | |
ask the current government to sit down with Waspy and consider a some | :19:31. | :19:35. | |
of the financial stress these changes have brought and perhaps | :19:36. | :19:38. | |
extended time frame in which these changes are made. We know the | :19:39. | :19:43. | |
problem, we cannot allow cack-handed policy implications to devastate the | :19:44. | :19:48. | |
lives of so many people who have worked so hard for so long. The | :19:49. | :19:52. | |
government cannot shirk their obligations and must accept | :19:53. | :19:54. | |
responsibility, apologise and correct this as a matter of urgency. | :19:55. | :19:58. | |
Anything else was something not suffice. A reminder that there are | :19:59. | :20:03. | |
nine more people waiting to catch my eye and we need to start winding up | :20:04. | :20:08. | |
at quarter past. If people insist on taking more interventions as they | :20:09. | :20:12. | |
are doing there will be people who are not called to speak so with that | :20:13. | :20:16. | |
in mind I call Phillipa Whitford. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker, a | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
lot of the issues have been covered, the issue of equalisation is | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
accepted but to respond to a member opposite who is no longer in his | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
place, we pointed out that life expectancy increase is not equal. In | :20:32. | :20:37. | |
Scotland and parts of Scotland we have huge differences in life | :20:38. | :20:42. | |
expectancy. That particularly goes with wealth. Women who are lower | :20:43. | :20:47. | |
paid, who are unlikely to have a decent pension, who have no chance | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
of having any other kind of pension are exactly the ones who do not get | :20:52. | :20:55. | |
this extended life expectancy. We also heard that from one of the | :20:56. | :21:01. | |
members opposite, that women were definitely written to and maybe they | :21:02. | :21:07. | |
chose to ignore it. But we have from a FOIA 3231 that the campaign of | :21:08. | :21:14. | |
information was from 2009-2013, 14 years later. I am sad to challenge | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
to the members further along these benches by the DWP in 2004, which | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
was a Labour government, did recognise that from the survey only | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
46% of women knew what was coming. So for most of these women it is not | :21:29. | :21:33. | |
an extension of a year or 18 months, it is literally a change from 60 to | :21:34. | :21:43. | |
66. There were other changes... Many thanks for giving way, exactly on | :21:44. | :21:50. | |
that point, one of my constituents contacted me this week to say she | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
had only heard through word-of-mouth and a web search regarding these | :21:56. | :22:01. | |
changes when 59 of the government 's own website suggested she could | :22:02. | :22:05. | |
retire at 62 but this was changed and put at 264. These changes are so | :22:06. | :22:12. | |
unfair and penalising people at the latter stages when they can make no | :22:13. | :22:17. | |
alternative arrangements. I think we have heard this across the chamber, | :22:18. | :22:23. | |
the lack of communication, the acceleration to the age extension | :22:24. | :22:26. | |
and the fact women couldn't do anything about it. Also it is built | :22:27. | :22:31. | |
on literally a generation of women who had a lifetime of poor pay. We | :22:32. | :22:35. | |
need to think about that going forward, twin role and does not | :22:36. | :22:39. | |
cover the modern worker who has multiple many jobs, their combined | :22:40. | :22:47. | |
earnings are not considered and therefore we will have another | :22:48. | :22:50. | |
debate in 30 years of people who have been left with no pension | :22:51. | :22:53. | |
because of current working approaches. We know that arrived | :22:54. | :22:59. | |
pension benefit from their husbands is not counted, that in 2016, only | :23:00. | :23:06. | |
22% of women who will retire this year will qualify for the fool flat | :23:07. | :23:21. | |
rate pension. This is an expect be. They do not qualify for free | :23:22. | :23:25. | |
transport here in England, for free prescriptions or any other benefits | :23:26. | :23:33. | |
like fuel for cold weather. It's an multiple and accelerating problem | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
for these women. It asked from the benches opposite which have now got | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
horrifically empty I must say for such an important debate, come up | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
with a solution. I understand each MRC is looking at the higher rate | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
pension relief and they may actually claw back 45 billion from that. That | :23:52. | :23:55. | |
more than covers the 30 billion we were told would cover pull | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
transitional arrangements. High-level tax relief is for the | :24:01. | :24:03. | |
wealthiest people, the people who this week have already earned in the | :24:04. | :24:08. | |
first proper working week of the year, more than the average wage. | :24:09. | :24:13. | |
Three quarters of them are men. This is the route we should be following, | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
to actually take away money which goes to people who probably despite | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
their long life expectancy will not live long enough to spend it. Share | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
it more equally with women who have been very badly treated. This is an | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
issue of fairness and the government has a responsibility to deal with | :24:32. | :24:40. | |
it. I congratulate and thank my honourable friend for bringing this | :24:41. | :24:44. | |
important issue to the house and for articulating it so passionately and | :24:45. | :24:48. | |
I am glad to see women against state pension and equality are holding us | :24:49. | :24:53. | |
to account despite the problems they have had reaching some MPs. This is | :24:54. | :24:58. | |
a concern for many people across the UK and it continues to gain momentum | :24:59. | :25:02. | |
as the impact on women's lives looms larger. It's important to stress we | :25:03. | :25:09. | |
are in support of the equalisation and Lloyd George actually | :25:10. | :25:21. | |
represented part of my constituency. This was originally put into age at | :25:22. | :25:25. | |
which husbands retired an discrepancy in the age is between | :25:26. | :25:29. | |
husbands and wives and that is no way to be running with modern | :25:30. | :25:34. | |
appropriate way equality. I speak today | :25:35. | :25:39. | |
the accelerated timetable does not give an insufficient time to prepare | :25:40. | :25:45. | |
for retirement. I would like to look particularly at the situation in | :25:46. | :25:48. | |
Wales because the government claims to be making these changes in | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
response to an increasing life expectancy but both life experience | :25:53. | :25:56. | |
and life expectancy vary significantly depending on which | :25:57. | :26:00. | |
part of the UK you look at. Unfortunately this means Wales will | :26:01. | :26:03. | |
be particularly hard hit by these changes. In parts of England for and | :26:04. | :26:08. | |
newborn baby could expect to live to the age of 87 whereas in parts of | :26:09. | :26:14. | |
Wales it might lead to just 76. Income per head is lowest in Wales | :26:15. | :26:20. | |
for all the UK nations. All the UK nations and regions even, at 71.4% | :26:21. | :26:25. | |
of the UK average. Whilst the average gross salary for a Welshman | :26:26. | :26:33. | |
is ?25,200, a in Wales earns an average just ?20,500, a fact which | :26:34. | :26:37. | |
bought this government and Welsh government should be ashamed of. | :26:38. | :26:40. | |
Either retreat that Plaid Cymru welcome is the equal treatment of | :26:41. | :26:47. | |
women but it requires the equal treatment of women in other places. | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
Whilst the UK Government is keen to push ahead with the former as a way | :26:53. | :26:55. | |
to cut social protection budgets it is doing precious little to secure | :26:56. | :27:02. | |
the latter. I urge the government to faze this in over a longer time | :27:03. | :27:05. | |
frame so women nearer retirement are given adequate time to prepare. The | :27:06. | :27:09. | |
current time frame is too fast and will cause an jewel hardship, these | :27:10. | :27:13. | |
women cannot go back and live their lives and live there lives again and | :27:14. | :27:16. | |
they deserve better treatment from the government. I urge the | :27:17. | :27:20. | |
government to rethink and with that, in a case of such fundamental | :27:21. | :27:23. | |
inequality as we are seeing and the case of people who vote, we cannot | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
afford, any of us, not to be considering this in some detail and | :27:29. | :27:31. | |
making sure this is a quality is not allowed to continue. | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
I congratulate the honourable lady for Paisley and Renfrewshire South | :27:37. | :27:42. | |
and my honourable friend for Worsley and Eccles vows for bringing forward | :27:43. | :27:47. | |
this very important motion. The honourable lady for Paisley and | :27:48. | :27:51. | |
Renfrewshire South spoke with such passion and force and characterised | :27:52. | :27:57. | |
the problem that faces many women who were born in the 1950s right | :27:58. | :28:01. | |
throughout Britain and Northern Ireland, who are faced with making | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
decisions that they didn't think they would have to make in such an | :28:06. | :28:10. | |
accelerated fashion. Many of these women are in receipt and have been | :28:11. | :28:15. | |
in receipt of low pay. They undertake owners and very straining | :28:16. | :28:21. | |
type of jobs, in caring professions, whether they are nurses, but many | :28:22. | :28:26. | |
who are home helps who provide care within their own families to ageing | :28:27. | :28:31. | |
parents. All of this places the additional strain upon their health, | :28:32. | :28:37. | |
but that burden doesn't lessen for them because with less money they | :28:38. | :28:42. | |
still have to work and will have to work, because they are facing this | :28:43. | :28:48. | |
pension or deal. A number of women in my own constituency in Southdown, | :28:49. | :28:54. | |
many of them are associated with the Waspi campaign, who I wish to | :28:55. | :28:57. | |
congratulate today, will be affected by these changes through the | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
legislation that went through the Northern Ireland Assembly. The | :29:03. | :29:08. | |
equalisation of the state pension age is in principle to be welcomed | :29:09. | :29:12. | |
but in this symbol of gender equality was accompanied by | :29:13. | :29:15. | |
transitional protection is to ensure that women did not lose out, then | :29:16. | :29:21. | |
that would be better. I do recognise that as life expectancy increases | :29:22. | :29:25. | |
and many people stay in education longer before they enter employment, | :29:26. | :29:31. | |
the pensions system must adapt. However, a number of the women in | :29:32. | :29:35. | |
lesser paid as I have said, home helps and carers and more physically | :29:36. | :29:40. | |
straining jobs, may not necessarily enjoyed such an increase in life | :29:41. | :29:45. | |
expectancy. They are the very people who are likely to suffer most as a | :29:46. | :29:51. | |
result of these changes without the right time and adequate time to | :29:52. | :29:57. | |
prepare. That is the injustice. That is the unfairness. That is the issue | :29:58. | :30:02. | |
that this government needs to address now, which the previous | :30:03. | :30:08. | |
Coalition Government failed to recognise and wanted ordinary women | :30:09. | :30:13. | |
in our society to pay for the financial crisis. People who had | :30:14. | :30:22. | |
nothing to do with that, and the responsibility for that should not | :30:23. | :30:24. | |
lie at the door of those women who were born in the early 1950s. Now we | :30:25. | :30:29. | |
have women who will be expected to work for longer, but for a smaller | :30:30. | :30:35. | |
pensions and that which they had expected and planned for. No | :30:36. | :30:38. | |
planning had taken place by these women because they did not realise | :30:39. | :30:47. | |
it was happening. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker for calling me today | :30:48. | :30:50. | |
in this important debate. I'd like to congratulate my honourable friend | :30:51. | :30:53. | |
the member for Paisley and Renfrewshire South for securing this | :30:54. | :30:58. | |
debate on such an important issue. Madame Deputy Speaker no one today | :30:59. | :31:02. | |
has disagreed with the concept of equalisation to bring about the con | :31:03. | :31:07. | |
-- pension age for men and women that promotes gender equality that I | :31:08. | :31:12. | |
have campaigned for. However the way these changes have been in demented | :31:13. | :31:15. | |
amounts to an injustice for women. The injustice comes in the form of a | :31:16. | :31:20. | |
faster roll-out than promised, little or no notice of these | :31:21. | :31:24. | |
changes, and no time for women to make alternative arrangements. And | :31:25. | :31:29. | |
grateful to my honourable friend for giving way. Would she agree with me | :31:30. | :31:32. | |
this is I believe the 10th major change in these women's working | :31:33. | :31:37. | |
lifetimes and it's by far the worst and by far the one that impacts on | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
them the most? An important point to make is perhaps if there had been | :31:43. | :31:47. | |
more women in this House over those years those changes perhaps would | :31:48. | :31:51. | |
not have taken place. Many of the women who were expecting to start | :31:52. | :31:54. | |
drawing their state pension is only found out in 2011 they would the | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
delay. I'd like to take this opportunity to acknowledge the work | :32:00. | :32:07. | |
of women against eight quality and -- the women against stated equality | :32:08. | :32:11. | |
and these women have experienced first-hand the consequences of the | :32:12. | :32:18. | |
government failing to communicate significant policy changes. These | :32:19. | :32:21. | |
women were not given sufficient notification. In fact the government | :32:22. | :32:25. | |
did not actively and for many women until 14 years later. That's simply | :32:26. | :32:32. | |
not substantial. When we compare this to the advice of the work and | :32:33. | :32:35. | |
pensions select committee, that suggested ten years, the government | :32:36. | :32:41. | |
view and the Chancellor acknowledged the ten notice must be given in | :32:42. | :32:44. | |
future. To me this sounds like an admission of guilt on something the | :32:45. | :32:47. | |
government must address. The government know they have | :32:48. | :32:49. | |
short-changed these women and they know they must take action so they | :32:50. | :32:54. | |
must now face up to this truth. In my time as an MP I've been contacted | :32:55. | :32:59. | |
by many female constituents. In fact I was contacted by a lady in my | :33:00. | :33:04. | |
constituency. She was born in 1956 and began working in the local | :33:05. | :33:09. | |
council in 1978. The age of retirement impact on her choice of | :33:10. | :33:12. | |
career and on her choice of mortgage. My constituent could have | :33:13. | :33:15. | |
been better prepared for her retirement if she had been given | :33:16. | :33:20. | |
adequate notice. Another constituent told me she had worked in the NHS | :33:21. | :33:24. | |
for 42 years and have retired in anticipation must make with | :33:25. | :33:28. | |
one-year's notice she was informed she would no longer receive that | :33:29. | :33:32. | |
state pension and has since taken on part-time employment to fill in this | :33:33. | :33:38. | |
gap that is simply unacceptable. Of all of the constituents that I spoke | :33:39. | :33:42. | |
to, these similar themes emerged. Women working hard, working less | :33:43. | :33:47. | |
than men and earning less than men, still not being recognised by this | :33:48. | :33:49. | |
government or the contributions that they made the society. In fact I'm | :33:50. | :33:55. | |
sure many of the colleagues on the women and equality is committee, if | :33:56. | :33:58. | |
they could have been here today were it not for a committee visit, would | :33:59. | :34:02. | |
have echoed the same sentiments on the conservative benches. Sadly | :34:03. | :34:06. | |
their colleagues have failed in this regard. This ultimately highlights | :34:07. | :34:09. | |
the submissions that have been given to the committee, an enquiry into | :34:10. | :34:13. | |
the long-term effect of the gender pay gap and the impact of low paid | :34:14. | :34:18. | |
work on women. All fall of the constituents I've spoken to these | :34:19. | :34:23. | |
sentiments are echoed throughout all constituencies across this country. | :34:24. | :34:26. | |
There are women in every single constituency who have signed this | :34:27. | :34:30. | |
petition calling on this government to take action. The way these | :34:31. | :34:34. | |
changes have been fermented is unfair. The women affected have | :34:35. | :34:38. | |
spent years paying into the system and rightly expect to see that | :34:39. | :34:42. | |
through to their retirement. We owe it to these women to make fair | :34:43. | :34:46. | |
transitional state pension agreements for women born in the | :34:47. | :34:50. | |
1950s onwards. Let's hope the government well paid heed to this | :34:51. | :34:55. | |
remark. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I'd like to briefly talk | :34:56. | :34:59. | |
about the situation of two of the women who have contacted me. The | :35:00. | :35:05. | |
first was born in July 1953 and had expected retirement age of 60. This | :35:06. | :35:12. | |
is increased initially 62 years and three months. She had no problem | :35:13. | :35:15. | |
with this because she had been given plenty of notice and agreed with the | :35:16. | :35:19. | |
gradual move to equality of retirement age for men and women. | :35:20. | :35:22. | |
And of course with no warning the retirement age was increased, so she | :35:23. | :35:28. | |
now has to wait until she's 64 before she gets her higher state | :35:29. | :35:32. | |
pension. The injustice of this is the way in which it has been done, | :35:33. | :35:37. | |
on a sliding scale. This means that some of the people she was in the | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
same class at school with will get their pensions almost two years | :35:42. | :35:46. | |
before she does. This is despite the fact that they have worked for the | :35:47. | :35:49. | |
same amount of time and have the same number of pension units. She is | :35:50. | :35:55. | |
still working, but says she is fortunate because she has a good | :35:56. | :35:58. | |
civil service pension, but she is deeply concerned that many other | :35:59. | :36:05. | |
women rely on their state pension and now find they are waiting as has | :36:06. | :36:08. | |
been discussed this afternoon for many more years to get it. Another | :36:09. | :36:12. | |
constituent of mine is in this unfortunate position. She worked for | :36:13. | :36:18. | |
20 years as a secretary. And although the male workers in the | :36:19. | :36:21. | |
company will automatically enrolled in the company pension scheme, women | :36:22. | :36:26. | |
were not. It was very different for women in those days. She has | :36:27. | :36:32. | |
arthritis and is now continuing to work as a cleaner because she simply | :36:33. | :36:36. | |
can't afford not to. She also agrees with pension reform to equalise the | :36:37. | :36:43. | |
retirement age. This isn't a problem for women. It's the way that it's | :36:44. | :36:49. | |
been done. It is so very upsetting. Younger women have had time to | :36:50. | :36:53. | |
adjust and to plan for these retirement dates and the changes. | :36:54. | :36:57. | |
But women such as my constituents I've just discussed don't have that | :36:58. | :37:02. | |
opportunity. Now I'm willing to give the government the benefit of the | :37:03. | :37:05. | |
doubt, that perhaps they didn't understand just how many women this | :37:06. | :37:09. | |
was going to affect. I can accept that. But what I cannot, I cannot | :37:10. | :37:16. | |
get my head around is why they are refusing to look at it. To me this | :37:17. | :37:22. | |
is simply callous. You know so many women are being affected. You could | :37:23. | :37:27. | |
look, you could listen, you could change things. Madame Deputy | :37:28. | :37:33. | |
Speaker, apologies. So I would ask that the government looks again at | :37:34. | :37:39. | |
how these people have been disproportionately affected, listen | :37:40. | :37:42. | |
to what they are saying, and get up and do something to help. Thank you, | :37:43. | :37:50. | |
Madame Deputy Speaker and happy New Year, although the people I really | :37:51. | :37:53. | |
hope have a happy New Year are the women who have been suffering under | :37:54. | :37:58. | |
this injustice for too long. On the 20th of June 2011, the Work and | :37:59. | :38:02. | |
Pensions Secretary advised MPs during the debate on the 2011 bill | :38:03. | :38:08. | |
that he would be considering transitional arrangements to provide | :38:09. | :38:12. | |
assistance to the worst affected women. Yet later on that year there | :38:13. | :38:18. | |
was only completely inadequate transitional arrangements accepted. | :38:19. | :38:24. | |
In the same debate in 2011, the Hansard record reveals that although | :38:25. | :38:27. | |
concern was expressed by many members in the House, the extent of | :38:28. | :38:33. | |
the problems not least the lack of effective communication support and | :38:34. | :38:36. | |
transition was not as well understood as it is today, thanks to | :38:37. | :38:42. | |
the Waspi ladies. Today gives us an opportunity to begin to set the | :38:43. | :38:46. | |
record straight and to give the government the chance to write it | :38:47. | :38:50. | |
wrong. Much more recently on the 24th of January 2014, Roz Altmann, | :38:51. | :38:57. | |
now the noble Baroness, who has become the pensions minister, wrote | :38:58. | :39:04. | |
this. Women in their late 50s or lower today have been the most | :39:05. | :39:07. | |
disadvantaged by the UK pensions system. She pointed out four years | :39:08. | :39:11. | |
women have been second-class citizens in both state and private | :39:12. | :39:17. | |
pensions. This particularly affects women already in the late 19, | :39:18. | :39:22. | |
already in the late 50s. Women typically earn less than men when | :39:23. | :39:26. | |
they are working. Once again leaving them with less chance to save for a | :39:27. | :39:30. | |
pension and leaving them with lower state pensions as they lose out on | :39:31. | :39:34. | |
earnings related element of the system. Let us recall as well that | :39:35. | :39:40. | |
women born in 1950s didn't have the same breadth of employment as men | :39:41. | :39:45. | |
and in the early years of employment it was still legal to ban women from | :39:46. | :39:49. | |
joining private pension schemes if they married or worked part-time. | :39:50. | :39:55. | |
Women were encouraged to pay the married women's stamp, which meant | :39:56. | :39:59. | |
they accrued no state pension rights at all, and the state pension system | :40:00. | :40:04. | |
did not credit them if they worked full time raising a family. In other | :40:05. | :40:08. | |
words the pensions system was designed by men, for men. Thousands | :40:09. | :40:16. | |
of women are now struggling to fill the gap before they have access to | :40:17. | :40:21. | |
the state pension and I can find no adequate impact assessment has been | :40:22. | :40:26. | |
undertaken by the government. They have simply left these women to get | :40:27. | :40:30. | |
on with it. Some are planning to use up what savings they have and | :40:31. | :40:34. | |
others, who may have very small private pension pots, are choosing | :40:35. | :40:41. | |
to pull them all down to help fill a gap that is the creation of this | :40:42. | :40:50. | |
government. The government must act. Thank you, Madam dubbed is bigger. | :40:51. | :40:56. | |
And like the -- Madame Deputy Speaker. I'd like to pay tribute to | :40:57. | :41:00. | |
the Waspi campaign group, who have raised man awareness of these issues | :41:01. | :41:08. | |
and have had to resort to Freedom of Information requests to hold the | :41:09. | :41:12. | |
government to account. The lack of communication associated with the | :41:13. | :41:15. | |
1995 pension act. What they've done and what we've heard today and what | :41:16. | :41:19. | |
we are hearing from constituents is how the combination of 1995 and 2011 | :41:20. | :41:25. | |
pension acts is affecting certain people's lives. This is women who | :41:26. | :41:29. | |
have planned to retire at age 60, spent the whole lifetime in that way | :41:30. | :41:33. | |
accordingly and now find they have to work an extra five or six years. | :41:34. | :41:36. | |
Nobody here can imagine the impact this has on family life. Women who | :41:37. | :41:42. | |
have already retired on the basis they have enough income to get by on | :41:43. | :41:45. | |
until they reach the state pension age of 60, these are women who have | :41:46. | :41:52. | |
been out of the workplace for up to five years and now find themselves | :41:53. | :41:55. | |
in a position they have to try and find employment again, which is | :41:56. | :41:58. | |
difficult enough having been out of the workplace but the austerity | :41:59. | :42:05. | |
measures and the public sector is further attack -- affecting job | :42:06. | :42:10. | |
chances. Some took early retirement and advisers did not tell them the | :42:11. | :42:12. | |
impact of the 1995 act. How is she going to do at age 60 | :42:13. | :42:30. | |
bearing in mind only 34% of women in the 60-64 age range are active. | :42:31. | :42:35. | |
Another constituent has been lucky enough to get back into work that | :42:36. | :42:39. | |
she is coming back to pay national insured events which rubs salt into | :42:40. | :42:45. | |
her wounds. Another constituent says she has been robbed of over ?30,000. | :42:46. | :42:53. | |
Another aspect of the information gathered by the Waspy group is the | :42:54. | :42:57. | |
submission and recommendations of how the government should have | :42:58. | :42:59. | |
communicated with people and how they should in future, how to make | :43:00. | :43:04. | |
financial clear and what the impacts are and I recommend the government | :43:05. | :43:07. | |
take that on board. We have also heard that the previous pension | :43:08. | :43:12. | |
Minister admits acceleration in 2011 was a mistake but has taken the easy | :43:13. | :43:16. | |
option of blaming the civil service and the Tories which I don't think | :43:17. | :43:22. | |
is acceptable. Two months ago the Chancellor 27p, -- 20 ?7 million. | :43:23. | :43:31. | |
I would conclude by saying this government continues to gel as it | :43:32. | :43:37. | |
takes pride in being able to take tough decisions, we are giving you | :43:38. | :43:42. | |
an open goal and an easy decision. Change mind and help these people | :43:43. | :43:45. | |
out whose lives have been potentially ruined. Thank you for | :43:46. | :43:53. | |
giving me the opportunity to speak, I speak half of my own party to put | :43:54. | :44:00. | |
forward a viewpoint expressing concern many have already said. A | :44:01. | :44:10. | |
large group of women born in the mid-19 50s whose entitlement to a | :44:11. | :44:14. | |
state pension was altered by the last government. Instead of 60 as | :44:15. | :44:19. | |
they expected and planned they now don't qualify until the age of 66. | :44:20. | :44:23. | |
Equalising the state pension is a good move for general equality in | :44:24. | :44:28. | |
the long term but like any other members I have been inundated with | :44:29. | :44:30. | |
constituents concerned that their whole life 's plans will be thrown | :44:31. | :44:35. | |
up into the error by these unplanned and unexpected changes. The Office | :44:36. | :44:38. | |
of National Statistics released research showing that women born in | :44:39. | :44:43. | |
2064 can expect a liberal 100 years. By making that statement, not only | :44:44. | :44:56. | |
will thousands of women across my constituency be affected by this but | :44:57. | :44:59. | |
the publicising of this changes have not been adequate and thousands of | :45:00. | :45:03. | |
women might not be aware of the changes and the potentially drastic | :45:04. | :45:08. | |
impact it may have. I want to quote a constituent who wrote to me with a | :45:09. | :45:17. | |
heartfelt plea, the stress I feel at times is awful. I got at this stage | :45:18. | :45:21. | |
in my life I would have time for the mean things in my life. Women my age | :45:22. | :45:27. | |
have worked hard. We are at this age the generation of looking after | :45:28. | :45:30. | |
grandchildren and ageing parents. We were given little time to prepare | :45:31. | :45:35. | |
for this extended retirement age and I feel the latest update is an fair | :45:36. | :45:39. | |
as all the plans I had disappear. I was told several years ago the | :45:40. | :45:45. | |
retirement age would be 62 so I set that as a target, then 18 months ago | :45:46. | :45:50. | |
I am informed it is up to 66. How could our government treat us in | :45:51. | :45:56. | |
this way and I ask the Minister that question. These women grow up and | :45:57. | :46:02. | |
worked in a time and income inequality was rife. They had none | :46:03. | :46:10. | |
of the advantages young women have today in more equal professions and | :46:11. | :46:15. | |
our working environment. The DWP issued forecasts to working age | :46:16. | :46:18. | |
people who had not received any kind of forecast in the preceding 12 | :46:19. | :46:24. | |
months. The letter made no reference whatsoever to changes. The | :46:25. | :46:27. | |
opportunity to communicate the changes to affected women early and | :46:28. | :46:31. | |
clearly has been missed but it's not too late, even today, for the | :46:32. | :46:35. | |
Minister to reply and make a difference and make this process a | :46:36. | :46:39. | |
lot easier for those affected. We need to have a coherent strategy | :46:40. | :46:43. | |
from the government and Fred to be commented as soon as possible to | :46:44. | :46:46. | |
assist the women affected by this change through no fault of their | :46:47. | :46:54. | |
own. It was a privilege to hear the honourable member for Paisley and | :46:55. | :46:58. | |
Renfrewshire South propose this motion just as it was an honour for | :46:59. | :47:02. | |
me to join her in going to the backbench business committee to | :47:03. | :47:05. | |
request this debate which has heard from powerful contributions from a | :47:06. | :47:09. | |
number of members who have been campaigning in this Parliament and | :47:10. | :47:12. | |
indeed the last parliament in relation to this very issue. Madam | :47:13. | :47:17. | |
Deputy Speaker we have heard reference to the former minister | :47:18. | :47:21. | |
Steve Webb and what he has now said. I believe the question arises, if | :47:22. | :47:26. | |
the Minister himself was under some misunderstanding and | :47:27. | :47:29. | |
misapprehension, was in some way being misled or misinformed was the | :47:30. | :47:33. | |
house in 2011 in turn being misled and misinformed? Various statements | :47:34. | :47:41. | |
were made in this chamber and that the committee stage. There is a | :47:42. | :47:45. | |
question for Parliament and I often hear in this house the principle | :47:46. | :47:49. | |
that one Parliament cannot wind its successor so it is an issue for this | :47:50. | :47:54. | |
Parliament, a choice for this Parliament, those who weren't here | :47:55. | :47:57. | |
then but are here now cannot wash their hands and say it's nothing to | :47:58. | :48:01. | |
do with us, this is a choice for us because if the minister by the time | :48:02. | :48:05. | |
the bill was going through was not fully aware, honourable members | :48:06. | :48:08. | |
certainly were not and we know the people directly affected by these | :48:09. | :48:13. | |
changes were not aware. We know they are so active and animated now three | :48:14. | :48:18. | |
Waspy campaign that if they had been aware much earlier they would have | :48:19. | :48:23. | |
been active much earlier. It's an insult for honourable members | :48:24. | :48:26. | |
opposite to suggest maybe people were informed and just didn't know | :48:27. | :48:29. | |
and if they didn't know they should have known. The fact is these women | :48:30. | :48:32. | |
have demonstrated that had they known they would have been doing | :48:33. | :48:36. | |
something about it for the terms of their own personal circumstances and | :48:37. | :48:39. | |
in terms of the public policy challenges and issues they would be | :48:40. | :48:43. | |
bringing forward. We also had the nonsense from across the benches | :48:44. | :48:49. | |
that there was not an alternative, that we are looking for transitional | :48:50. | :48:51. | |
arrangements but none have been proposed. We heard of arrangements | :48:52. | :48:58. | |
being done in other countries in transition towards pension equality. | :48:59. | :49:03. | |
There are examples and also when the bill was going through in 2011 as I | :49:04. | :49:06. | |
said in an earlier intervention there were additional measures put | :49:07. | :49:10. | |
forward but they were voted down by the government. Madam Deputy | :49:11. | :49:16. | |
Speaker, in a debate in Westminster hall in May 2011I made the point | :49:17. | :49:22. | |
then that if the Minister did not indicate that he was going to revise | :49:23. | :49:26. | |
the proposals that were then in the bill because these women were and an | :49:27. | :49:31. | |
intended anomaly, those women would have no choice but to conclude that | :49:32. | :49:38. | |
they have been calculated as the victims of an intentional injustice | :49:39. | :49:42. | |
with a drive-by hit on their pension rights and that is how things stand. | :49:43. | :49:46. | |
The cause if we felt the pass this motion today we will be saying these | :49:47. | :49:50. | |
people are unacceptable casualties on the way to equality and we cannot | :49:51. | :50:00. | |
accept that. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker, can I warmly thank and | :50:01. | :50:05. | |
congratulate my honourable friend for Paisley and redfish size for | :50:06. | :50:08. | |
securing this debate and making such a powerful speech on the issue of | :50:09. | :50:13. | |
inequality many women face in the changes to the state pension to | :50:14. | :50:18. | |
regime. I must say an opening it's an utter disgrace Madam Deputy | :50:19. | :50:22. | |
Speaker that as we close this debate this afternoon, on an issue which is | :50:23. | :50:26. | |
so important for millions of women in this country, at 2pm this | :50:27. | :50:31. | |
afternoon there was the grandson of two Tory backbenchers in this | :50:32. | :50:34. | |
chamber and as the debate clauses there are half a dozen Tory members, | :50:35. | :50:39. | |
that is the contempt the government has for the women in this country | :50:40. | :50:42. | |
that are suffering from these changes. It would have been easy to | :50:43. | :50:51. | |
turn up just as my honourable friend says, where are the government and | :50:52. | :50:54. | |
will they have the guts to stand up and vote this afternoon if we press | :50:55. | :51:00. | |
this to a vote as I expect we will? Madam Deputy Speaker nothing more | :51:01. | :51:03. | |
fundamental to all of us in making sure we can look forward to | :51:04. | :51:07. | |
retirement and I indeed one which offers security and dignity. The | :51:08. | :51:12. | |
reason we are here today is that women born in the 1950s believe they | :51:13. | :51:16. | |
were short-changed by the government and our right to do so. Let's make | :51:17. | :51:22. | |
it clear, as many of my honourable friends have done from the SNP and | :51:23. | :51:27. | |
the Labour Party that we support the principle of equalisation. It's not | :51:28. | :51:31. | |
equalisation which is the issue, it's the speed of the journey | :51:32. | :51:36. | |
towards it which is both unjust and has led to significant and | :51:37. | :51:39. | |
acceptable consequences for many women who have found that | :51:40. | :51:43. | |
expectation of retirement deferred. The government will tell us as they | :51:44. | :51:48. | |
often do that it's all about money. To us it is also about equity and | :51:49. | :51:55. | |
fairness. It is doing, it is about doing the right thing. That's the | :51:56. | :52:00. | |
problem with this government, it is wedded to austerity, it is wedded to | :52:01. | :52:05. | |
the Jews in spending, and its obligation to society and | :52:06. | :52:07. | |
specifically to this case that female pensioners a map it's one | :52:08. | :52:12. | |
they're quite prepared to rip up and toss away. Let's get the deficit | :52:13. | :52:17. | |
down and others will have to pay the price. Madam Deputy Speaker, | :52:18. | :52:22. | |
austerity is not an economic necessity, it is a political choice. | :52:23. | :52:27. | |
In making that choice 1950s women are paying the price. This, from a | :52:28. | :52:33. | |
government that we know now is the price of everything and a value of | :52:34. | :52:40. | |
nothing. Women's pension rights are expendable, crushing hopes of a | :52:41. | :52:44. | |
decent retire for many, crushed on the desire to achieve a budget | :52:45. | :52:47. | |
surplus. We should never cease to tell the house and the country that | :52:48. | :52:52. | |
there is an alternative. What we have from this is abdication of | :52:53. | :53:00. | |
responsibility, a poverty of hope and ambition. The Minister will no | :53:01. | :53:03. | |
doubt shot out that the money could not be found to create a longer | :53:04. | :53:08. | |
transitional period, it is all about priorities. When you can find 167 | :53:09. | :53:14. | |
billion to invest in the weapons of mass destruction, you can find the | :53:15. | :53:17. | |
money to make sure our pensioners are protected. On this and on so | :53:18. | :53:24. | |
many issues, this government has a faulty moral compass. When you enter | :53:25. | :53:30. | |
into an arrangement with any pension provider you do that in effect | :53:31. | :53:35. | |
assuming that the provider will exercise their contractual | :53:36. | :53:39. | |
responsibilities. Whether you are talking about Private pensions are | :53:40. | :53:43. | |
paying national insurance, you are in effect entering into a | :53:44. | :53:46. | |
contractual arrangement within the case the state has since 1940 BNP in | :53:47. | :53:51. | |
pensions to women who reach the age of 16. Women had an expectation that | :53:52. | :53:58. | |
this is what was going to happen. The women behind the Waspy campaign | :53:59. | :54:03. | |
are to be congratulated on how they have pursued this matter. Like the | :54:04. | :54:07. | |
issues of tax credits for the government had to see sense, I | :54:08. | :54:11. | |
expect to see a glowing clamour for the government to do the right | :54:12. | :54:16. | |
thing. I am glad to see the press are taking an interest in this | :54:17. | :54:20. | |
story, the Sunday Post in Scotland will be commended for putting this | :54:21. | :54:25. | |
story on the front page last Sunday. From speaking with Westminster | :54:26. | :54:28. | |
editor I understand they have had almost 400 e-mails this week and I | :54:29. | :54:33. | |
have many them here. Let's look at the reality of what is happening, if | :54:34. | :54:38. | |
we take the example of a woman or an across the early years of the 1950s | :54:39. | :54:42. | |
and how their experiences are going to be sharply different. For | :54:43. | :54:46. | |
arguments sake let's take somebody born in the 10th of February 1950 | :54:47. | :54:52. | |
onwards, somebody born on the 10th of February 1950 would have retired | :54:53. | :54:56. | |
aged 60 in 2010. A woman born one year later would have to wait almost | :54:57. | :55:00. | |
two years longer to retire on the 6th of January 20 12. A woman born | :55:01. | :55:06. | |
on the 10th of February 1952 would have reached state pension age | :55:07. | :55:12. | |
yesterday, aged 61 years, ten months and 27 days. Such a women has had to | :55:13. | :55:17. | |
wait almost two additional years than a woman born in 1950. Madam | :55:18. | :55:23. | |
Deputy Speaker, if this is not bad enough, the increase for women born | :55:24. | :55:29. | |
in 1953 and 54 it's markedly worse. I women born in 1954 will not reach | :55:30. | :55:37. | |
pensionable age until the 6th of July 2019. She will be aged 65 | :55:38. | :55:44. | |
years, four months and 26 days. A woman born in 1955 will not retire | :55:45. | :55:51. | |
until the 10th of their degree 2021 aged 66. I say to this house, this | :55:52. | :55:57. | |
cannot be right, it is far too steep and increase over a short period. I | :55:58. | :56:01. | |
say to the few honourable members who are here opposite your | :56:02. | :56:06. | |
conscience. You will have women from the Waspy campaign coming to see you | :56:07. | :56:11. | |
at your surgeries. Someone born in 1955 that had expected to retire | :56:12. | :56:15. | |
either now or at least not long into the future, the Conservative | :56:16. | :56:19. | |
members, are they going to tell them it is right they have to wait an | :56:20. | :56:24. | |
additional six years over and above someone born five years earlier | :56:25. | :56:28. | |
without mitigation? Because that's the skill of the increase. It is, | :56:29. | :56:33. | |
Madam Deputy Speaker, a breach of trust between the government and | :56:34. | :56:37. | |
women who have earned the right to a pension. Let me, as a reasonable | :56:38. | :56:44. | |
person, as indeed we are on these benches, help the government out. We | :56:45. | :56:49. | |
should also heed the recognition of the last pension Minister Steve Webb | :56:50. | :56:53. | |
who last month admitted the government made a bad decision on | :56:54. | :56:57. | |
state pension age rises. We should recall the advice from the Turner | :56:58. | :57:00. | |
report much quoted today that such measures should be brought in over a | :57:01. | :57:04. | |
15 year period to mitigate the impact of any such changes. We have | :57:05. | :57:09. | |
heard repeatedly about the failure of the communication which it can be | :57:10. | :57:13. | |
argued means that the start of the 15 year process should be the | :57:14. | :57:15. | |
beginning of the It would mean as we are having the | :57:16. | :57:25. | |
age retirement age of 63 for women from this April, the government | :57:26. | :57:29. | |
could look at smoothing the pension age for women aged 63- anti-sex -- | :57:30. | :57:39. | |
66 to 2025. My honourable friend for Paisley and Renfrewshire South | :57:40. | :57:41. | |
mention that pensions are incredibly, located. My honourable | :57:42. | :57:45. | |
friend is also right that we have built-in convexity and if I may say | :57:46. | :57:50. | |
so and the number of inconsistencies which seem at odds with other | :57:51. | :57:56. | |
aspects of pensions policy. When it comes to pensions policy at all to | :57:57. | :57:59. | |
be about getting things right for the longer term. There are a number | :58:00. | :58:04. | |
of positive developments that have been enacted such as auto enrolment | :58:05. | :58:08. | |
but even here we need to talk about how we can enhance or toy ramrod | :58:09. | :58:11. | |
twin deal with the issue of part-time workers, for example. -- | :58:12. | :58:16. | |
enhanced auto enrolment. There are rightful criticisms of how it has | :58:17. | :58:22. | |
affected many women born in the early 1950s, but I would suggest the | :58:23. | :58:26. | |
government had something I hope will have broad support is they establish | :58:27. | :58:29. | |
an independent pension commission that can look at holistically all | :58:30. | :58:35. | |
these issues that require oversight. If we accept as we do that there has | :58:36. | :58:40. | |
to be equalisation of the state pension age, we also need to look at | :58:41. | :58:43. | |
how this and the increase in state pension age is going to affect | :58:44. | :58:48. | |
people throughout the UK. We need to look at vastly different mortality | :58:49. | :58:51. | |
rates across the UK and question how this may influence the debate on | :58:52. | :58:55. | |
state pension age. Just in conclusion, in Scotland are | :58:56. | :59:01. | |
65-year-old man today can normally expect to live to age 82, and a | :59:02. | :59:07. | |
woman, the 84. This is nearly two and a half years below life | :59:08. | :59:11. | |
expectancy in England. There is therefore a considerable difference | :59:12. | :59:13. | |
in the life experience of people with different parts of the UK and | :59:14. | :59:18. | |
crucially much less time for someone in Scotland to enjoy a secure and | :59:19. | :59:21. | |
comfortable retirement. We have a debate today that has shined light | :59:22. | :59:26. | |
on pension inequalities and one that many women in the 1950s face. I hope | :59:27. | :59:30. | |
the government are listening and are prepared to reflect on what can be | :59:31. | :59:33. | |
done to mitigate against this unfairness. I would also hope that | :59:34. | :59:38. | |
the take on board our suggestion of an independent pension commission. | :59:39. | :59:47. | |
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I begin by, lamenting the member for | :59:48. | :59:51. | |
Paisley and Renfrewshire South on securing and opening this debate | :59:52. | :59:56. | |
today Wash by, lamenting. It's an irony that as we discussed, she is | :59:57. | :00:02. | |
further from retirement age than any other member of this House. I'd like | :00:03. | :00:07. | |
to pay a warm tribute to the Women Against State Pension Inequality | :00:08. | :00:10. | |
group and for the dignity with which they have conducted their campaign | :00:11. | :00:15. | |
and I think it's a measure of their campaign success that every member | :00:16. | :00:18. | |
of this House knows the meaning of the acronym Waspi. I'd also like to | :00:19. | :00:23. | |
pay tribute to those other groups and individuals who have been | :00:24. | :00:28. | |
advocating the cause of women born in 1950s. I think the level of | :00:29. | :00:32. | |
interest in this debate is summed up by the fact that we have had 26 | :00:33. | :00:37. | |
backbench contributions from members from all parts of the United | :00:38. | :00:42. | |
Kingdom. I'd like to pick out two of those contributions if I may. The | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
first, from my honourable friend the member for Denton and Reddish and | :00:47. | :00:52. | |
for all the work that he has done on this in recent years, and also my | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
honourable friend the member for Worsley and Eccles South, whose deep | :00:57. | :00:59. | |
commitment to this is known across the house. I'd also like to pay | :01:00. | :01:05. | |
tribute if I may to Mike Labour colleagues who in 2011, when the | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
pensions act was going through this house, pressed the issue of | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
transitional provisions as hard as they could and I think it's a shame | :01:13. | :01:15. | |
that the government did not listen to many of the proposals set out at | :01:16. | :01:23. | |
the time. I will give way. As he said, at that time the Secretary of | :01:24. | :01:27. | |
State in that debate said he would consider transitional protection. As | :01:28. | :01:30. | |
my honourable friend seen any evidence of that consideration being | :01:31. | :01:35. | |
given? You thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I think that contribution | :01:36. | :01:39. | |
really puts the finger on what has happened here, because in previous | :01:40. | :01:45. | |
debates on this matter the minister the member for North West | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
Cambridgeshire has talked about this issue of the cap on the increase | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
being reduced from 24, took 18 months, but that was as far as it | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
got, and to see the government here today with no positive proposals to | :01:58. | :02:01. | |
put on the table, they keep asking the opposition about proposals, but | :02:02. | :02:05. | |
it is the government that is -- that's mind has gone completely | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
blank on this issue today. Let's not forget the fundamentals of this | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
debate. The most women worn in a 1950s, some women born in 1950s, | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
will have started their working lives without even the protection of | :02:19. | :02:22. | |
the 1970 equal pay act. Many of those women will have carried out | :02:23. | :02:26. | |
work at a lower rate than men for no other reason than that they were | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
women. The gender pay gap is at its widest for many of the women who are | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
under discussion today. Let's not forget either the time many of them | :02:36. | :02:41. | |
have taken part time or to bring up children and not even had the chance | :02:42. | :02:44. | |
to contribute to occupational pensions. The 1995 pensions act | :02:45. | :02:52. | |
increased the state pension age from 60, the 65 for women between 2010 | :02:53. | :03:01. | |
and 2020 to bring in line with men. What the Coalition Government did | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
was to move the goalposts. They decided to accelerate the rise in | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
state pension age for women from April 2016 so it reached 65 by | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
November 20 18. As my honourable friend the member for East Ham has | :03:14. | :03:17. | |
pointed out, in the second reading debate before this house on the 20th | :03:18. | :03:23. | |
of June 2011, the Secretary of State made clear they would consider | :03:24. | :03:26. | |
transitional arrangements. The reduction in the cap, the much | :03:27. | :03:29. | |
vaunted reduction previous debates the Minister has pointed out of | :03:30. | :03:34. | |
capping the maximum increase to 18 months simply isn't enough, Madame | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
Deputy Speaker. And does the government understand the anger the | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
risk that more transitional provisions have not been considered? | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
The over 100,000 signatures for a debate on this House, the online | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
campaign that there has been in respect of this matter, and the | :03:53. | :03:58. | |
great response in the media to this campaign, even recently the Sunday | :03:59. | :04:01. | |
Post were telling me that a feature on this brings an unprecedented | :04:02. | :04:04. | |
response from the hundreds of thousands of women who are affected. | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
Let's ask ourselves what did the pensions minister in the Coalition | :04:10. | :04:12. | |
Government at the time think? This is what he told the Institute for | :04:13. | :04:16. | |
government. There was one very early decision that we took about state | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
pension ages, which we would have done differently if we'd been | :04:21. | :04:27. | |
properly briefed and we weren't. He added, we made a choice, and the | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
obligations of what we were doing suddenly, about two Waspi three | :04:32. | :04:34. | |
months later, it became clear they were very different from what they | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
thought and added so basically we made a bad decision. We realised too | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
late it had just gone too far by then. I'll give way. The only thing | :04:44. | :04:50. | |
that my honourable friend has forgotten to mention is that the | :04:51. | :04:57. | |
whole of this idea was masterminded and put forward at the box by that | :04:58. | :05:03. | |
tinpot liberal who called himself Professor Steve Webb. Madame Deputy | :05:04. | :05:10. | |
Speaker, I'm honoured to be put right by that intervention. Maybe | :05:11. | :05:19. | |
Madame Deputy Speaker the Professor, as we shall rid forever referred to | :05:20. | :05:22. | |
him, would have been better off listening to my colleagues on the | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
Labour benches than civil servants. Wouldn't it be more interesting to | :05:28. | :05:30. | |
ask ourselves what the current pensions minister thought of the | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
2011 acts? I do thoroughly recommend to the House Roz Altmann .com, | :05:36. | :05:41. | |
because there are a lot of wonderful critique of the pensions policy in | :05:42. | :05:45. | |
there. She can't deny it, even her photograph is on every contribution. | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
But what did she say about the 2011 acts? The government has decided to | :05:51. | :05:56. | |
renege on its coalition agreement by increasing the state pension age | :05:57. | :05:59. | |
from women from 2016 even though it sure these women it would not start | :06:00. | :06:04. | |
writing the pension age are going before 2020. That is the current | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
pensions minister. Even after the concession of the cap being reduced, | :06:09. | :06:13. | |
this is what she said to the Yorkshire Post on the 6th of June 20 | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
13th and I quote, the coalition seems oblivious to the problems | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
faced by those already in their late 50s, particularly women, who feel | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
they simply do not matter to policymakers. What an appropriate | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
critique that is. I think we should also look very carefully at the | :06:32. | :06:34. | |
intervention made by my honourable friend the member for whole West and | :06:35. | :06:38. | |
hassle when he talked about being lobbied by the pensions minister, | :06:39. | :06:48. | |
about applying the pensions fund retrospectively -- Hull West and | :06:49. | :06:51. | |
hassle. She was effective in lobbying, she told my friend the | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
impossible was actually possible. Now she says what we are trying to | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
do is impossible. I got an interesting history, I have been | :07:01. | :07:06. | |
trying to think of an example all morning, but I can't think of | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
another government minister who had more influence on policy when she | :07:11. | :07:13. | |
was outside government than when she was in it. | :07:14. | :07:19. | |
LAUGHTER And Madam Deputy Speaker we have | :07:20. | :07:22. | |
heard so many times about the issue of notice and notice is absolutely | :07:23. | :07:28. | |
key to this debate. Its key because the government has in its gift the | :07:29. | :07:34. | |
pensions legal framework in this country and when it makes changes it | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
has a duty to provide that notice. Now again, don't take my word for | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
this. Let's take the word of the pensions minister. What did she say | :07:44. | :07:48. | |
about women already in the late 1950s and the notice under the 2011 | :07:49. | :07:52. | |
acts? She said they are not being given enough notice of such a huge | :07:53. | :07:58. | |
change. Why won't she listen to her own words now? And this debate as | :07:59. | :08:07. | |
well takes place against the backdrop of a decision in the | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
District Court in northern Netherlands, a decision that has | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
already been brought out in the contributions that we have heard | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
today. Which has found that a particular lady who suffered from a | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
number of chronic diseases, progressive diseases, faced a | :08:25. | :08:27. | |
disproportionate burden in bridging the gap to her extended retirement | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
age. How awful it would be if this is a battle that ends up in the | :08:32. | :08:38. | |
courts when the government has a chance to do something about it | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
today. Now the government keeps saying they are not sure what to do. | :08:43. | :08:46. | |
They think it's impossible to do something. They have no proposals to | :08:47. | :08:49. | |
bring forward. And yet if we look at the passage of the 2011 pensions | :08:50. | :08:55. | |
act, they had a number of options. One of them from the honourable | :08:56. | :09:01. | |
member for foiling this debate. Another was put forward by one of my | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
predecessors as shadow pensions minister at the time about | :09:06. | :09:07. | |
maintaining the qualifying age for pension credit on the 1995 | :09:08. | :09:13. | |
timetable, rather than the 2011 one, to at least provide a buffer for | :09:14. | :09:17. | |
those who are least able to cope financially with these changes. That | :09:18. | :09:21. | |
was completely dismissed at the time. All I say to the minister | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
today is the at least open his mind to having a discussion about what | :09:27. | :09:33. | |
might be done, instead of consistently hiding behind the fact | :09:34. | :09:35. | |
that he is going to do absolutely nothing. Now we have heard | :09:36. | :09:45. | |
throughout this debate the passion there is about this issue. This is | :09:46. | :09:49. | |
not an issue Madame Deputy Speaker that is going to go away. I urge the | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
government to constructive. They can still do something to ease the | :09:55. | :10:00. | |
transition is, whatever the minister does today do not slam the door in | :10:01. | :10:10. | |
the face of the 1950s women. Thank you very much, matter and active | :10:11. | :10:13. | |
speaker and may I start off by congratulating the honourable member | :10:14. | :10:16. | |
for Paisley and Renfrewshire South on an itching to secure this debate, | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
which has attracted so many members on both sides of the House and may I | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
also commend all the colleagues who have taken the trouble to come and | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
speak today. I will try to address as many of the points as I possibly | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
can and in the limited time that I have available to me. May I begin by | :10:34. | :10:40. | |
reminding the House about the rationale for reforming the | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
timetable. Through our state pension system to function effectively it | :10:45. | :10:47. | |
has to be fair, affordable and sustainable. The changes made to the | :10:48. | :10:53. | |
state pension age under the pensions act of 2011 make an important | :10:54. | :10:56. | |
contribution to achieving these aims. Gender equality is one of the | :10:57. | :11:01. | |
main purposes of the changes to the state pension age. Under the | :11:02. | :11:07. | |
previous system, women reaching state pension age in 2010 would | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
spend on average 41% of their adult lives in receipt of state pension. | :11:13. | :11:18. | |
While men would spend only 31%, due to longer life expectancy and | :11:19. | :11:24. | |
earlier state pension age of women. It makes little sense for women to | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
work to a pension age originally set in 1940, which does not reflect the | :11:30. | :11:32. | |
employment opportunities open to them in a modern society. Changes | :11:33. | :11:39. | |
were needed to take account of increased life expectancy and ensure | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
fairness for working age people, who otherwise bear the cost of this | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
longevity. The previous government acted following sharp rises in life | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
expectancy to address this and brought forward the timetable for | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
rises in state pension age. This was vital to continue to meet the UK's | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
obligations under EU law to eliminate gender inequalities in | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
Social Security provision. I will in a moment. To eliminate gender | :12:06. | :12:08. | |
inequalities in Social Security provision and ensure the state | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
pension remained affordable and sustainable. It was also important | :12:14. | :12:16. | |
to look at the changes in the context of our wider pension reforms | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
and what these mean for women. I will give way. | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
I cannot believe he was listening, a substantial proportion of what I | :12:25. | :12:30. | |
said showed that is not the case, what he and his colleagues are | :12:31. | :12:32. | |
we were not required to do that, hiding behind is not the case, | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
we were not required to do that, some countries are not equalising | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
until 2040 or 2044 and some are maintaining a difference, can he | :12:42. | :12:44. | |
please stop hiding behind something which is not true. The honourable | :12:45. | :12:51. | |
lady should also respect to the views of other people and rather | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
than just simply saying that what she is saying is right, we are | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
bound, we are bound by EU law but also it is right and proper | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
irrespective of EU law that we have gender equality. The introduction of | :13:05. | :13:10. | |
the new state pension will benefit many women who would have lost out | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
under the current two tier, I will not give way, I am mindful of the | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
limited time I have and am keen to ensure the honourable lady who | :13:20. | :13:22. | |
proposed this motion has an opportunity at the end to have the | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
concluding comments. The introduction of the new state | :13:27. | :13:29. | |
pension would benefit many women who would have lost out under the | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
current two tier system largely as a result of a lower average earnings | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
and part-time working. All those affected by the 2011 changes will | :13:39. | :13:42. | |
reach pension age happily introduction of the new state | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
pension. Allowed 650 cows and women reaching state pension age within | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
the first ten years will receive an average of ?8 per week more under | :13:53. | :13:55. | |
the new state pension that they would have done under the previous | :13:56. | :13:59. | |
system. The majority of households reaching state pension age up to | :14:00. | :14:04. | |
2030 will receive a higher total income over retirement under the new | :14:05. | :14:13. | |
system. The solution to ensuring people have safety and later life is | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
encouraging people to work longer. This benefit individuals through the | :14:18. | :14:21. | |
social and financial rewards of an appointment. It benefits employers | :14:22. | :14:24. | |
through the skills and experiences that older workers bring to the | :14:25. | :14:30. | |
workplace. And it benefits the wider economy. Research by the National | :14:31. | :14:34. | |
Institute of economic and social research has shown that adding just | :14:35. | :14:39. | |
one year to be bulls working lives would add 1% to UK GDP per year. For | :14:40. | :14:50. | |
those who cannot work due to caring responsibilities, ill health or | :14:51. | :14:53. | |
disability, support is in place to provide extra help for these | :14:54. | :14:57. | |
individuals. Women affected will be eligible for the same in work, out | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
of work or disability benefits as men of their age. Carers allowance | :15:03. | :15:07. | |
may be available for which national insurance credit are awarded | :15:08. | :15:12. | |
automatically. In 2011 credits were introduced to help adult family | :15:13. | :15:15. | |
members who were looking after a child under 12 to assist the parents | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
who are working with these credits being able to count towards state | :15:20. | :15:22. | |
pension entitlement. Madam Deputy Speaker much Chas been made of the | :15:23. | :15:28. | |
comments made by the previous pension Minister Steve Webster and I | :15:29. | :15:32. | |
think it has been important to recognise that even he was not | :15:33. | :15:39. | |
seeking to have a resident reaction which would cost ?30 billion, he was | :15:40. | :15:45. | |
only looking for a 10% claw-back. It's also worth remembering that he | :15:46. | :15:50. | |
does recognise that the ?1.1 billion concession which was made was | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
generous and his exact words are, and we got 1 billion back in the end | :15:56. | :15:58. | |
and a billion quid is a serious amount of money. I will not give | :15:59. | :16:08. | |
way. Madam Deputy Speaker. The government, I will give way... I am | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
grateful for you being so generous, he courted that point about 1 | :16:13. | :16:15. | |
billion quid being a serious mode of money but he should have quoted the | :16:16. | :16:19. | |
whole sentence because it starts by saying this was a measure to save | :16:20. | :16:24. | |
?30 billion over how many years and we wanted 10% of it back to soft in | :16:25. | :16:28. | |
the blow, he wanted 3 billion back but only got one! Actually whilst | :16:29. | :16:34. | |
the honourable member was preparing his question if he had taken the | :16:35. | :16:38. | |
trouble to listen that is what I said but in different words, he | :16:39. | :16:42. | |
might want to check the record tomorrow morning on that. Always | :16:43. | :16:48. | |
helps to listen before speaking in this place. Madam Deputy Speaker, | :16:49. | :16:51. | |
the government listened to the concerns expressed at the time of | :16:52. | :16:58. | |
the 2011 act and shortened the delay, that anyone would experience | :16:59. | :17:04. | |
in claiming their pension. Relative to the 1995 timetable, to 18 months. | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
This concession benefited almost a quarter of a million women. Who | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
would otherwise have experienced delays of up to two years. A similar | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
number of men also benefited from a reduced increase. This concession | :17:19. | :17:22. | |
was worth 1.1 billion in total and as a result 81% of women affected | :17:23. | :17:28. | |
will experience a delay of 12 months or less. I will give way. Thank you | :17:29. | :17:35. | |
for giving way, on that point of the concessions being given, to me that | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
indicates the government recognises the transition was not appropriate | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
so on that point, giving the wording of this motion was very clear and | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
asking the government to reassess in its look at the transitional | :17:48. | :17:50. | |
arrangement, can the Minister confirmed he will do so if this | :17:51. | :17:54. | |
passes whether it be unanimously or through a vote? Much has been made | :17:55. | :18:02. | |
of what was so-called promised in the second reading. What I would say | :18:03. | :18:07. | |
to the honourable lady and others is that this concession was made after | :18:08. | :18:12. | |
it was said there would be consideration, this concession was | :18:13. | :18:15. | |
made after they said they would consider it and that concession is | :18:16. | :18:19. | |
worth six months and is worth one billion pounds. I only have a short | :18:20. | :18:25. | |
an idle time and must press on. People being aware of the 1995 | :18:26. | :18:29. | |
changes, I should say that research carried out by it the Department for | :18:30. | :18:35. | |
Work and Pensions in 2004 found that 73% of people aged 45-54 were aware | :18:36. | :18:41. | |
of the changes. It is regrettable that people have sought to make this | :18:42. | :18:45. | |
on a political basis and have completely forgotten that after 1995 | :18:46. | :18:55. | |
there were 13 years of Labour government and I have a list of some | :18:56. | :19:01. | |
ten pensions minister is all during the Labour administration and they | :19:02. | :19:05. | |
totally failed to do anything yet they conveniently work to put the | :19:06. | :19:12. | |
blame post-2010 onwards and two of them, the Shadow Home Secretary | :19:13. | :19:16. | |
commented earlier, he was a cabinet minister at the time and the former | :19:17. | :19:20. | |
Home Secretary commented as well, he was former pensions Minister. I'm | :19:21. | :19:29. | |
afraid I want, I have... I have... I have a few seconds but I will give | :19:30. | :19:35. | |
way. Thank you, I was the Work and Pensions Secretary but we ends to | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
Jews to measures which did not include this anomaly, this was | :19:40. | :19:46. | |
introduced in 2011. The right honourable gentleman spoke of being | :19:47. | :19:51. | |
lobbied but he took no action on it, there has been big issues, big | :19:52. | :19:56. | |
issues as to whether notice was given to those, as to the changes in | :19:57. | :20:03. | |
1995 and he when he was Work and Pensions Secretary did nothing to | :20:04. | :20:06. | |
ensure those women were informed. Everything has been put at the | :20:07. | :20:10. | |
blame... Madam Deputy Speaker I will wind up by saying that this matter | :20:11. | :20:18. | |
was debated very thoroughly and very properly in 2011. Concession was | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
made then, by way of time period and financially worth over ?1 billion. | :20:24. | :20:27. | |
It was thoroughly debated in both Houses of Parliament and I very much | :20:28. | :20:34. | |
hope that I have put on record the position of the government and I | :20:35. | :20:37. | |
would simply say to people that they should learn to take the | :20:38. | :20:40. | |
responsibility when they were in government for 13 years. I'm happy | :20:41. | :20:43. | |
to the honourable lady speak now. First of all, I would like to | :20:44. | :20:55. | |
congratulate the house on having such a good quality debate, I | :20:56. | :21:03. | |
think... With a few exceptions! What has struck most is that this is an | :21:04. | :21:11. | |
issue which clearly crosses party boundaries and different | :21:12. | :21:15. | |
constituencies. All the evidence we have heard today shows that this has | :21:16. | :21:19. | |
to be debated more, which it has been and shows that it was | :21:20. | :21:24. | |
accommodated to in 2011 but it did not go far enough and it's still not | :21:25. | :21:29. | |
good enough. Despite my intervention I am still no further former in | :21:30. | :21:33. | |
understanding if the government will commit if this motion passes to look | :21:34. | :21:37. | |
and reassess the transitional arrangements. The minister spoke at | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
great length about equalisation, nobody here disagrees with that | :21:43. | :21:46. | |
principle. What we are concerned with is the transition, that point | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
has not been answered. My colleague, the honourable member brought Ross | :21:52. | :21:54. | |
Skye and Lochaber pointed out that this is about priority. Everything | :21:55. | :22:01. | |
government decides to do is about priority and I am no further clear | :22:02. | :22:04. | |
as to what the priority of this government are so I would like to | :22:05. | :22:11. | |
test this the house. Before I put the question may I remind the house | :22:12. | :22:12. | |
that members who I will put that question as it is on | :22:13. | :22:30. | |
the order paper of that opinion see aye. Aye. Of the country say no. No. | :22:31. | :22:45. | |
I think the aye's have it. Division! Clear the lobby! | :22:46. | :30:53. | |
Order! Order! The ayes to the right 158, the noes to the left zero. The | :30:54. | :33:52. | |
ayes to the right 158, the noes to the left is zero. Unlock. | :33:53. | :34:03. | |
We have just had a very convincing vote on a motion which is quite | :34:04. | :34:09. | |
specific in calling for the Government to introduce trench is no | :34:10. | :34:16. | |
arrangements. The debates are new phenomenon and what is new is the | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
Government's tendency to ignore them. That is something for which we | :34:21. | :34:25. | |
should not put up. Could you confirm their certain things we can do | :34:26. | :34:31. | |
unambiguously as a house if the Government chooses to continue this | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
bad practice? We could for example cut the salary of the pensions | :34:37. | :34:41. | |
minister or his penchant for that matter. Alternatively, we could ask | :34:42. | :34:50. | |
you to summon him on a weekly basis. Cute you confirm that is within the | :34:51. | :34:54. | |
province of this house to ask you to summon him on a weekly basis until | :34:55. | :34:59. | |
he bends to the will of the House? Can you confirm these are matters | :35:00. | :35:03. | |
that are an ambiguous live within the performance of this house if the | :35:04. | :35:10. | |
pensions minister continues to ignore a democratic vote. He was not | :35:11. | :35:16. | |
in the last parliament so he is unaware that I cherish the back edge | :35:17. | :35:20. | |
business committee for five years at which time we spent a lot of time | :35:21. | :35:25. | |
grappling with these issues but most know that backbench motions are not | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
binding on the Government. They're right situations in which they are | :35:30. | :35:35. | |
binding on the House and I are happy to have a long conversation, not | :35:36. | :35:39. | |
here, not now, about those but that is as far as it goes. These motions | :35:40. | :35:47. | |
are not binding. This motion is not binding on the Government. This is | :35:48. | :35:51. | |
an opportunity for the House to express its will. We have another | :35:52. | :35:56. | |
debate coming up that is heavily subscribed and I really want to move | :35:57. | :36:00. | |
on. I will let the honourable gentleman have a small word. I gave | :36:01. | :36:04. | |
you two illustrations which the House has within its gift family | :36:05. | :36:11. | |
action against a minister or instructing him to do something. | :36:12. | :36:17. | |
That really is way outside the debate that is currently taking | :36:18. | :36:23. | |
place. I wish to move on and we move now to the next motion on the order | :36:24. | :36:32. | |
paper. Which is on children and care and I call Lucy Allen to move the | :36:33. | :36:38. | |
motion. Thank you. I beg to move the motion that this house calls on | :36:39. | :36:44. | |
government to take steps to help reduce the number of children | :36:45. | :36:49. | |
entering care. By bringing forward measures to support more children to | :36:50. | :36:53. | |
remain safely at home with family or extended family. I am most grateful | :36:54. | :36:58. | |
to the backbench business committee for allowing this debate to be | :36:59. | :37:02. | |
brought forward. The voices of children in care and their families | :37:03. | :37:09. | |
are rarely heard, yet it is they who are among the most vulnerable in | :37:10. | :37:13. | |
society and to have the greatest need of representation. Over recent | :37:14. | :37:21. | |
years, we have seen steadily rising numbers of children being taken into | :37:22. | :37:26. | |
care. There are now 70,000 looked after children in this country. The | :37:27. | :37:32. | |
rise began in response to the very tragic case of baby Peter Connelly | :37:33. | :37:37. | |
in 2008, but it has continued to increase. There are some who argue | :37:38. | :37:43. | |
that an increase of children in care shows that local authority | :37:44. | :37:47. | |
children's services are getting better at identifying children at | :37:48. | :37:53. | |
risk of harm. Therefore, a rise in care, children in care must be a | :37:54. | :38:00. | |
good thing. But you only have to look at the outcomes and life | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
chances of care leavers to realise that a child in care provides its | :38:05. | :38:11. | |
own risks. There are many deeply saddening statistics that I could | :38:12. | :38:19. | |
cite, levels of poverty, addiction, suicide, poor educational | :38:20. | :38:22. | |
attainment, overrepresentation in the prison population and high | :38:23. | :38:26. | |
levels of mental health difficulties compared to the population as a | :38:27. | :38:30. | |
whole. But perhaps the saddest statistic is the number of care | :38:31. | :38:35. | |
leavers whose own children are then taken into care. A self-perpetuating | :38:36. | :38:43. | |
cycle of loss, wounds that Neville Heal when the bond between parent | :38:44. | :38:48. | |
and child is broken. Children in care will tell you of multiple | :38:49. | :38:53. | |
fostering casement breakdowns, the sense of being unwanted, unloved, | :38:54. | :38:58. | |
abandon, the loss of identity, of being split up from their siblings | :38:59. | :39:02. | |
and grandparents and repeat changes of schools and loss of friendship | :39:03. | :39:06. | |
circles and that feeling of never truly belonging. The tragic | :39:07. | :39:14. | |
high-profile cases of child abuse and elect has (session is with an | :39:15. | :39:20. | |
entrenched fear of getting it wrong. Understandably, they face | :39:21. | :39:24. | |
significant pressure to take steps to secure the removal of children | :39:25. | :39:28. | |
rather than find the optimal solution for every child. I say that | :39:29. | :39:34. | |
if the state is going to intrude in the Private family life of an | :39:35. | :39:39. | |
individual, it must guarantee better life chances for those children. Of | :39:40. | :39:44. | |
course the welfare of a child must always come first, but in many | :39:45. | :39:50. | |
cases, a child's welfare is best served by staying with their parent | :39:51. | :39:55. | |
if that parent can be supported properly rather than just an | :39:56. | :40:01. | |
uncertain future in care. Instead of support when experiencing family | :40:02. | :40:04. | |
stress, the situation may be left until a crisis point is reached and | :40:05. | :40:09. | |
then the family experiences possibly state intervention. Inevitably, this | :40:10. | :40:16. | |
is a time of scarce resources for local authorities, but it is hard | :40:17. | :40:21. | |
not to argue that prevention is better than a life in care. I shall | :40:22. | :40:30. | |
be delighted to give way. Which she joined me and thinking and paying | :40:31. | :40:34. | |
tribute to the many thousands of family members who stepped in and | :40:35. | :40:39. | |
support children when their parental relationship has broken down, those | :40:40. | :40:43. | |
kinship carers do a fantastic job and we would like to see more | :40:44. | :40:48. | |
support for them perhaps on equal partnership of those who adopt. They | :40:49. | :40:53. | |
stave the sate a lot of money. I thank the honourable lady for her | :40:54. | :40:58. | |
intervention and I will come on to speak about the important role of | :40:59. | :41:02. | |
kinship carers and the support that could be offered. Yesterday, and | :41:03. | :41:10. | |
Longfield, the children's Commissioner, gave evidence to the | :41:11. | :41:14. | |
education select committee on the point of early intervention and she | :41:15. | :41:20. | |
spoke powerfully on the benefits. This is a vital stage in child | :41:21. | :41:26. | |
protection. It can in these difficult Financial Times be in | :41:27. | :41:31. | |
danger of being bypassed. I shall give way. I am a Welsh MP and in | :41:32. | :41:40. | |
Wales we have something called flying start ended families who have | :41:41. | :41:43. | |
difficulties in particular areas where poverty is high, the scheme | :41:44. | :41:49. | |
starts literally at the point of pregnancy with regular engagement | :41:50. | :41:52. | |
with the midwife once the child is born. There is support from | :41:53. | :41:56. | |
dedicated nursing services that will talk about play, talking, food, | :41:57. | :42:03. | |
setting boundaries as well as tackling drug and alcohol problems | :42:04. | :42:09. | |
if they exist within the family. Is this the listed imprisonment not the | :42:10. | :42:10. | |
way forward for many families? I thank her for her very helpful | :42:11. | :42:20. | |
intervention and I hope the minister is listening to the points she | :42:21. | :42:26. | |
makes. Instead of care proceedings being the option of last resort, | :42:27. | :42:32. | |
which it is intended to be on the big legislation, many families find | :42:33. | :42:36. | |
themselves on a track where too often there is only one outcome and | :42:37. | :42:40. | |
it is a trend where media, family and campaigners have talked about | :42:41. | :42:45. | |
for years. I believe the message is getting through. I should be | :42:46. | :42:53. | |
delighted to give way. I can gradually to her on raising this | :42:54. | :42:59. | |
subject. It is all too little we get to talk about children in care in | :43:00. | :43:05. | |
this chamber. Can I mention, to concur, we have the largest number | :43:06. | :43:09. | |
of children in care in England since 1985? On her early intervention, | :43:10. | :43:15. | |
does she not agree and can she challenged the minister because I | :43:16. | :43:19. | |
cannot be here at the end, what has happened to the early help | :43:20. | :43:22. | |
recommendation which was in the review on child protection which I | :43:23. | :43:27. | |
commissioned in 2010 and reported in 2011? It is exactly the intervention | :43:28. | :43:32. | |
to keep families together when possible and seems to have gone off | :43:33. | :43:36. | |
the radar. Does she agree that that needs to be very much back on the | :43:37. | :43:42. | |
agenda? I thank him for his intervention. He was an excellent | :43:43. | :43:45. | |
children's minister and I remember talking to you about some of these | :43:46. | :43:51. | |
issues. I think that point is very well made. I am encouraged that | :43:52. | :43:58. | |
there is more acceptance more can be done to top families stay together. | :43:59. | :44:03. | |
And to stay together safely, it has to be better for society and | :44:04. | :44:07. | |
financially, and most importantly, it is better for children. In | :44:08. | :44:12. | |
Telford, my local council understands that. They focus on | :44:13. | :44:17. | |
making sure children and families make sure they get the right help at | :44:18. | :44:23. | |
the right time. They support families with the challenges, which | :44:24. | :44:29. | |
makes sure more expensive and damaging interventions are not | :44:30. | :44:33. | |
necessary. Essential to this successful scheme is implementing | :44:34. | :44:39. | |
family can act, a single multi-agency front door for children | :44:40. | :44:43. | |
and families. -- family connect. It is helping children on the fringes | :44:44. | :44:50. | |
of care to stay out of the system. Many MPs will have had | :44:51. | :44:53. | |
correspondence from constituents desperate to keep their children out | :44:54. | :44:56. | |
of the care system and keep the family together. By the time | :44:57. | :45:00. | |
families are in touch with their MP, proceedings are under way and there | :45:01. | :45:05. | |
is nothing we can do. They are frightened, angry and overwhelmed at | :45:06. | :45:09. | |
the monitoring and building of a case against them not intended to be | :45:10. | :45:12. | |
supported or conducive to stronger families. There is an organisation | :45:13. | :45:19. | |
called the family rights group, providing free specialist legal | :45:20. | :45:22. | |
advice for families caught up in what can be a nightmare. It helps | :45:23. | :45:27. | |
families navigate the complexity of local authority child protection | :45:28. | :45:33. | |
investigations, enabling them to have a more constructive and | :45:34. | :45:35. | |
informed relationship with social services. Demand for this | :45:36. | :45:40. | |
organisation's services has doubled since 2010. Only 40% of callers can | :45:41. | :45:47. | |
be answered. The education Department funding for this | :45:48. | :45:51. | |
organisation is according to family rights groups ending in March and I | :45:52. | :45:55. | |
urge the Minister to think about the benefit of this organisation and if | :45:56. | :46:00. | |
that funding can be renewed. I do not accept that continued increase | :46:01. | :46:05. | |
in a rise of children in care is inevitable. What society would it be | :46:06. | :46:11. | |
if we assumed the state care would do better than parents? I believe, | :46:12. | :46:16. | |
and it is based on working with families caught up in the child | :46:17. | :46:21. | |
protection system, that most parents, however difficult the | :46:22. | :46:24. | |
circumstances and background, most parents set out to do the best they | :46:25. | :46:29. | |
can buy their children. The third step must be to help them achieve | :46:30. | :46:37. | |
that. -- first step. It is not a mind set prevalent necessarily in | :46:38. | :46:41. | |
child protection. In some cases it is the reverse. A professional, by | :46:42. | :46:47. | |
which I mean a nurse, GP, Doctor, anybody interfacing with a child, is | :46:48. | :46:53. | |
encouraged to think the unthinkable. What do I mean? Any parent, any | :46:54. | :47:00. | |
parent, including any one of us might be capable of deliberately | :47:01. | :47:05. | |
harming the child. The net in which families are caught is being cast | :47:06. | :47:11. | |
wider and wider. Today, one out of 100 children in England are subject | :47:12. | :47:16. | |
to child protection investigations. It is an increase of 79% in five | :47:17. | :47:22. | |
years. As professional and Zeit is rising, support services dwindle. -- | :47:23. | :47:31. | |
professional and is IT is rising. -- professional worries are rising. You | :47:32. | :47:37. | |
are seeking help for mental health problems and those that have had a | :47:38. | :47:40. | |
child in care, they might all be considered a risk of future | :47:41. | :47:46. | |
emotional harm to the child. I will give way to the honourable member. I | :47:47. | :47:50. | |
am grateful to her for giving way and I agree with the points she is | :47:51. | :47:55. | |
making. Does she also agree that it is a false economy if we cut back on | :47:56. | :48:00. | |
preventative services, support services she refers to, we end up | :48:01. | :48:05. | |
spending more in supporting those children in need and they end up | :48:06. | :48:09. | |
reduced education outcomes and the other consequences of being in care? | :48:10. | :48:15. | |
It is a worthwhile investment from everybody's point of view to stop it | :48:16. | :48:20. | |
happening. I thank the honourable gentleman for his useful comment and | :48:21. | :48:25. | |
I agree entirely. A risk of future emotional harm is assessed on a | :48:26. | :48:28. | |
pattern of potential risk factors. Bad housing, single parents, | :48:29. | :48:34. | |
poverty, abusive partners, combined to create a risk that a professional | :48:35. | :48:39. | |
cannot take. All too often it is those most disadvantaged affected by | :48:40. | :48:45. | |
this. I should be delighted to give way. Forgive me for saying, she is | :48:46. | :48:51. | |
painting a rather maligned picture of the child protection system, like | :48:52. | :48:54. | |
they are a bunch of child catches wandering around randomly looking | :48:55. | :48:59. | |
for children to apprehend. Does she acknowledge that the majority of | :49:00. | :49:03. | |
child protection cases, notwithstanding the old one which | :49:04. | :49:06. | |
does not go the right way, but the majority come to the right decision? | :49:07. | :49:14. | |
I thank him for his intervention. I will move on to that point with | :49:15. | :49:19. | |
regard to the court system. We will always have children that are not | :49:20. | :49:25. | |
able to stay safely at home. It is a difficult and challenging task to | :49:26. | :49:30. | |
identify them correctly. We are told as they are decided by an | :49:31. | :49:34. | |
independent court that we should be confident the right decision will | :49:35. | :49:38. | |
always be made. Madam Deputy Speaker, I say that a court can only | :49:39. | :49:42. | |
decide a case based on the evidence before it. Evidence put before the | :49:43. | :49:48. | |
court by a child protection professional, that evidence is often | :49:49. | :49:51. | |
dominated by opinion. The court does not have the discretion to disregard | :49:52. | :49:56. | |
professional opinion in favour of a distraught parent desperately trying | :49:57. | :50:00. | |
to navigate the complexity of the legal system, trying to prove they | :50:01. | :50:04. | |
are innocent against the might of the state. The governed has been | :50:05. | :50:10. | |
asked to support more children to remain safely at home. -- | :50:11. | :50:16. | |
Government. There are many good practices they are currently | :50:17. | :50:19. | |
undertaking, like the trouble families initiative, children social | :50:20. | :50:23. | |
care innovation and the project in Hackney. I would like to conclude by | :50:24. | :50:28. | |
briefly asking the Minister to consider some other alternatives to | :50:29. | :50:32. | |
helping children stay safely at home with their families. We know from | :50:33. | :50:37. | |
recent research that when a mother has a charge removed, the trauma and | :50:38. | :50:42. | |
loss often results in multiple repeat pregnancy. These children | :50:43. | :50:48. | |
sadly are almost always immediately taken into care. I have sat on | :50:49. | :50:54. | |
fostering panels a mother came back ten and nobody ever addressed the | :50:55. | :51:00. | |
issues, and these ten children were taken into care, which comes to the | :51:01. | :51:05. | |
point the gentleman opposite and the point about the cost effectiveness | :51:06. | :51:11. | |
of dealing with the difficulty a mother in that situation would | :51:12. | :51:15. | |
experience. I asked the Minister to consider therapeutic intervention | :51:16. | :51:20. | |
for mothers at the earliest opportunity, as it is cost effective | :51:21. | :51:24. | |
and care is not the answer that professionals would like it to be. I | :51:25. | :51:28. | |
will give way to the honourable member. Before coming to the House I | :51:29. | :51:34. | |
represented some of the parents whose children were taken into local | :51:35. | :51:37. | |
authority care. One thing I noticed was when babies are up for adoption, | :51:38. | :51:42. | |
there was almost an unseemly haste to put them out for adoption. And | :51:43. | :51:49. | |
not really trying to work with the family, or the mother, to get the | :51:50. | :51:54. | |
time back to the family. I thought that was very disturbing. I agree | :51:55. | :52:00. | |
with the honourable lady. There is a requirement to facilitate | :52:01. | :52:04. | |
reunification and rehabilitation. But I have also worked with these | :52:05. | :52:09. | |
families and often I find it is not something that is engaged with by | :52:10. | :52:15. | |
local authorities. In fact it was my next point. I can skip that bit. | :52:16. | :52:20. | |
Local authorities are required to consider these points. The | :52:21. | :52:25. | |
preliminary steps are difficult and potentially fraught with risk. That | :52:26. | :52:28. | |
is why they are often skipped over and dismissed. The words often used | :52:29. | :52:33. | |
are, it would be inconsistent with the timeline of the child. Not in | :52:34. | :52:40. | |
the best interest of the child. It is unmerited optimism to assume | :52:41. | :52:43. | |
rehabilitation and reunification is an option. I would like to move | :52:44. | :52:49. | |
briefly onto the role of carers. I will give way to the honourable | :52:50. | :52:55. | |
member. Would she acknowledge that in fact there are both types of home | :52:56. | :53:03. | |
# homes being found to be guilty and once that should be found guilty | :53:04. | :53:05. | |
that are not. -- home? He makes an important point. | :53:06. | :53:16. | |
Certainly we have issues where families are under the radar and | :53:17. | :53:20. | |
they do not approach professionals for help. And they are missed. We | :53:21. | :53:26. | |
have to be very careful and that is why it is a difficult judgment to | :53:27. | :53:35. | |
make. Moving on to carers, I believe they perform an invaluable role. | :53:36. | :53:38. | |
Were a child is placed with a grandparent or member of extended | :53:39. | :53:43. | |
family, again, in Mike 's parents, it is often overlooked as an option. | :53:44. | :53:51. | |
-- my experience. There has been a strong focus on adoption. I urge the | :53:52. | :53:55. | |
Minister to consider more support for carers and encourage local | :53:56. | :54:00. | |
authorities to see this as often in the best interest of the child. It | :54:01. | :54:04. | |
allows a chance to stay with siblings in a familiar context. | :54:05. | :54:10. | |
Relatives are often dismissed as inappropriate because of connections | :54:11. | :54:12. | |
with the natural parent, found wanting. I thank my honourable | :54:13. | :54:20. | |
friend for giving way. Does she agree part of the problem is local | :54:21. | :54:25. | |
authorities rushing towards adoption and that makes it more difficult for | :54:26. | :54:30. | |
grandparents in particular to go through the process and | :54:31. | :54:34. | |
demonstrating that they are equipped and suited to look after their | :54:35. | :54:39. | |
grandchildren. I thank the honourable gentleman for his | :54:40. | :54:43. | |
intervention. I am delighted he made that point. No family is perfect. It | :54:44. | :54:47. | |
is about good enough parenting and the sense of belonging and identity | :54:48. | :54:49. | |
which is irreplaceable for any child. I urge the Minister to | :54:50. | :54:55. | |
support the family rights groups so parents have access to independent | :54:56. | :54:59. | |
advice at an early stage in any investigation against them. It is | :55:00. | :55:09. | |
sometimes the case, certainly when I have been involved in child | :55:10. | :55:16. | |
protection work that the system is disregarded calls it puts a vital | :55:17. | :55:23. | |
role in making sure all potential other sources of care are examined | :55:24. | :55:28. | |
and explored before the case gets in front of a judge. I would like to | :55:29. | :55:34. | |
see that examined and acknowledged. I thank the honourable lady for her | :55:35. | :55:37. | |
intervention. It is an excellent point and well made. In conclusion, | :55:38. | :55:43. | |
I am so encouraged by what I have heard from the Minister and the | :55:44. | :55:49. | |
Prime Minister, because he has always been committed to | :55:50. | :55:52. | |
strengthening families and seeing families as the bedrock of society. | :55:53. | :55:57. | |
He recently spoke passionately and sincerely about his desire to see | :55:58. | :56:02. | |
fewer children in care. He also said the way that care system and the | :56:03. | :56:06. | |
plight of children in care shames our country. He has spoken of | :56:07. | :56:12. | |
committing to the life chances of disadvantaged young people. It may | :56:13. | :56:16. | |
be that with this emotion I and other members supporting it are | :56:17. | :56:22. | |
pushing at an open door. I hope that is the case. So the sense of | :56:23. | :56:27. | |
belonging and security is something which can be part of every child's | :56:28. | :56:35. | |
life. Thank you. Alan Johnson. I am delighted to join the member for | :56:36. | :56:41. | |
Telford in sponsoring this debate and declaring my interest as a | :56:42. | :56:43. | |
patron of a family rights group, the charity working with parents in | :56:44. | :56:47. | |
England and Wales whose children are in need, at risk, or in the care | :56:48. | :56:50. | |
system. In this kind of preamble to my | :56:51. | :57:05. | |
speech, that the family rights group provides the only free, open access, | :57:06. | :57:11. | |
specialist legal advice for these families. Governments of all | :57:12. | :57:16. | |
persuasions have recognised their importance. The simple fact is | :57:17. | :57:19. | |
demand for their services has gone up and their funding has reduced. | :57:20. | :57:24. | |
That is bad enough. If the Government does not get his finger | :57:25. | :57:29. | |
out, the service will cease completely on March 31, just a few | :57:30. | :57:34. | |
weeks from now. I hope the Minister can say something in his response, | :57:35. | :57:40. | |
because the need for the work that the family rights group does and all | :57:41. | :57:44. | |
the advice they give underpins all the various elements that we will | :57:45. | :57:47. | |
hear in this debate on this huge subject today, and preserving them | :57:48. | :57:53. | |
would be the first step to carrying out the terms of this motion. I | :57:54. | :58:03. | |
wouldn't claim to change the world in my short period as education | :58:04. | :58:08. | |
minister but now with my children's minister, we did try to improve the | :58:09. | :58:12. | |
situation for children in care through demergers contained in the | :58:13. | :58:18. | |
care matters White Paper. We work driven by a whole host of depressing | :58:19. | :58:23. | |
statistics but the most scandalous of all was that children in care | :58:24. | :58:28. | |
accounted for half a percent of the child population but as adults | :58:29. | :58:35. | |
account for 27% of the prison population. We might as well as | :58:36. | :58:40. | |
society just I wrote them straight to Wormwood Scrubs and the other | :58:41. | :58:44. | |
institutions they will end up in. It is scandalous and we did much in | :58:45. | :58:52. | |
government to address that problem, but the point I am making is after | :58:53. | :59:00. | |
ten years in power when I became Education Secretary, despite an | :59:01. | :59:03. | |
awful lot of concentration on what we used to call social exclusion, | :59:04. | :59:10. | |
that statistic remained and my point is this is not a party political | :59:11. | :59:16. | |
joust. This problem is so deeply embedded and so entrenched that | :59:17. | :59:22. | |
Ashley the solutions to it needs to be worked together across this house | :59:23. | :59:27. | |
and not in any kind of comforting way. Two combated. Just on that | :59:28. | :59:37. | |
particular statistic which is of course appalling. I wonder if he | :59:38. | :59:41. | |
accepts that it does not necessarily follow that it is the care system | :59:42. | :59:45. | |
that meant that those individuals went to prison and if they stayed | :59:46. | :59:49. | |
with their families they may have ended up in prison anyway? I do not | :59:50. | :59:58. | |
concur with that at all. All these problems are profound, | :59:59. | :00:00. | |
multidimensional, of course they are. I could sum it up in my time. | :00:01. | :00:05. | |
Others may have summed it up in other ways but they are pushed into | :00:06. | :00:11. | |
care too easily, they are moved around too much, and they are kicked | :00:12. | :00:16. | |
out too soon. That is the issue we tried to face back in 2007. I want | :00:17. | :00:24. | |
to focus on the first of these three, the fact they are pushed into | :00:25. | :00:30. | |
care to easily and in particular on kinship care but in respect of the | :00:31. | :00:35. | |
issue of removed from care too soon, can I congratulate the Government on | :00:36. | :00:39. | |
the important steps they made in the children of families act in 2014 | :00:40. | :00:44. | |
when they insisted that young people in care who reached the age of 18 | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
could remain in care or stay put to use the terminology with Foster | :00:50. | :00:57. | |
carers until the age of 21. In response to that intervention, we | :00:58. | :01:01. | |
used to kick them out at 16. Nowadays, children are practically | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
clinging on to the door mantle before you can get rid of them. The | :01:06. | :01:12. | |
average age is 27 now and children leave home. Kids in care, the most | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
abominable, were kicked out at 16. Of course that made contribution to | :01:18. | :01:23. | |
this depression statistic of where they ended up. I am conscious of | :01:24. | :01:29. | |
that. When I was a counsellor I established the first leaving care | :01:30. | :01:35. | |
service at Westminster council. I recognise that issue. The point I | :01:36. | :01:40. | |
was trying to make was that it does not necessarily follow that leaving | :01:41. | :01:43. | |
those children and their families would have led to benign outcomes as | :01:44. | :01:47. | |
opposed to the outcome is coming out of the care system. I am not sure | :01:48. | :01:52. | |
the alternative would have more benign. I will come on the research | :01:53. | :02:00. | |
because I believe that is indeed the case, not in every case but there is | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
a higher proportion of children who left to be raised with families and | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
friends incidentally will not end up in that situation. The Government | :02:10. | :02:15. | |
introduced that very welcome change for children in foster care to be | :02:16. | :02:18. | |
able to stay in foster care until they were aged 21. I wonder if the | :02:19. | :02:25. | |
Minister could tell us if there were any plans to introduce an analogy is | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
provision for children in residential care as recommended by | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
the education select committee in 2014? It seems to be ridiculous that | :02:36. | :02:40. | |
we agree that children can stay in care with foster parents at the age | :02:41. | :02:46. | |
of 21 but kept kicked out at 18 when in residential care. The main issue | :02:47. | :02:50. | |
I want to raise concerns can ship carers. They step into care for | :02:51. | :02:59. | |
children. 95% of the children in kinship care are not looked after | :03:00. | :03:08. | |
children by the local authority. Therefore, by keeping children out | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
of the care system, these carers save the taxpayer billions of pounds | :03:13. | :03:19. | |
each year in care costss alone. All the research evidence demonstrates | :03:20. | :03:23. | |
that kinship care has real and substantial benefits for the child, | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
they feel more secure, they have fewer emotional problems, they have | :03:29. | :03:32. | |
fewer behavioural difficulties. On top of that comes the latest piece | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
of research just in November of last year saying that they also do better | :03:38. | :03:41. | |
in terms of educational attainment than those in residential care and | :03:42. | :03:49. | |
there is another issue for the honourable member about the care | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
system. The care system used to move kids around all the time, that was | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
bad enough. When they arrived in a new location, they went to the worst | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
schools, the schools that have the vacancies and generally they were | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
the worst schools. We introduce the provision to say that schools must | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
accept children in care as a priority in accordance with what | :04:13. | :04:16. | |
those children and their carers wanted. There is another example of | :04:17. | :04:22. | |
how we can change the care system for the better. Despite everything | :04:23. | :04:31. | |
that has been done, the system neither encourages or supports the | :04:32. | :04:34. | |
important alternative of kinship care. Yes there is guidance and that | :04:35. | :04:40. | |
is helpful but there is no statutory duty that requires local authorities | :04:41. | :04:44. | |
to explore the kinship care option or even to have the all-important | :04:45. | :04:50. | |
family group conference, a crucial way of involving the wider family in | :04:51. | :04:57. | |
the process, it does not even take place. Usually in the vast majority | :04:58. | :05:03. | |
of cases until after the child goes into care. The family group | :05:04. | :05:09. | |
conference has to be held before that decision is made and of course | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
one of the important points about the family group conference is the | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
voice of the young person, because their voice is crucial and vital to | :05:19. | :05:24. | |
this process and central to the success of family group conferences, | :05:25. | :05:27. | |
but not only are they look held almost always for a child after they | :05:28. | :05:34. | |
have been designated looked after, the number of family group | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
conferences is diminishing as budget cuts force local authorities to | :05:40. | :05:45. | |
reach French. As a crucial step in realising this motion, the | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
Government should place a new duty on local authorities that one they | :05:51. | :05:53. | |
conclude HR needs to become looked after, they must firstly identify | :05:54. | :06:01. | |
and consider the willingness and suitability of any relatives or | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
other person connected to the child to care for them. Secondly, arrange | :06:07. | :06:12. | |
a family group conference run by an accredited service to develop a plan | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
to safeguard and promote a child's welfare. They should also ensure | :06:17. | :06:22. | |
proper funding for free specialist independent legal advice as myself | :06:23. | :06:27. | |
and the honourable member have mentioned through the family rights | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
group. My final point concerns the need to recognise the problems that | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
kinship carers face and the need for government to avoid adding to them | :06:38. | :06:40. | |
through changes to the benefit system. The largest survey of | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
kinship carers in the UK found that 49% of respondents had to give up | :06:47. | :06:53. | |
work permanently. Often that is the requirement for actually taking the | :06:54. | :06:56. | |
child into their care. The authorities insist that they give up | :06:57. | :07:05. | |
work. 18% had to give up work temporarily, 23% had to reduced | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
their hours, that creates a family income problem. The recent review of | :07:11. | :07:18. | |
special guardianship provide a perfect opportunity to introduce a | :07:19. | :07:21. | |
support framework for kinship care that includes a designated council | :07:22. | :07:30. | |
official to contact when necessary. The Government should also consider | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
extending the measures available to adopters of kinship carers such as | :07:36. | :07:38. | |
paid leave and priority school admissions more urgently kinship | :07:39. | :07:44. | |
carers should be exempted from the limiting of tax credit to two | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
children, the benefit cap and the extension of work additionality | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
rules to carers of children under five years of age. In respect of the | :07:54. | :07:59. | |
benefit cap, many children arrive to live with kinship carers following a | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
crisis and are deeply traumatised. Many have suffered prior abuse. As a | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
result, the behavioural response hoped for by the DWP of staying in | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
all returning to work is just not an option and the well of a drop in | :08:15. | :08:19. | |
income caused by the lower benefit cap will force more kinship carers, | :08:20. | :08:26. | |
who are saving the taxpayer a small fortune. Limiting child tax credit | :08:27. | :08:32. | |
to two children will make it financially unviable for some | :08:33. | :08:35. | |
relatives to take on a larger sibling group to keep the family | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
together, a grandmother in my constituency, her daughter died, had | :08:41. | :08:44. | |
three children, she takes the children in, she will be hit by the | :08:45. | :08:50. | |
two child policy. That is no way to run a civilised social service and | :08:51. | :08:56. | |
welfare state. The cost of this exemption would be around ?30 | :08:57. | :09:02. | |
million, it would only require 200 kinship carers to be financially | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
prohibited from taking in a sibling group of three or more for care and | :09:08. | :09:13. | |
court costs to outweigh this amount, so it is a saving the Government | :09:14. | :09:17. | |
could actually been making. The new requirements that will be applied to | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
carers of children under five will Place obvious and substantial | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
burdens on kinship carers. There is an important precedent for these | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
exemptions I say to the Treasury bench in that kinship carers have | :09:33. | :09:36. | |
already been exempted from work conditionality requirements for a | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
year after they take on the care of a child, so we're not talking about | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
precedents here, we are about consistency. This is an important | :09:46. | :09:51. | |
debate allowing honourable and right honourable members to raise issues | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
which are aired all too infrequently. Despite the benefits, | :09:56. | :10:01. | |
a kinship care is largely overlooked by the media, by governments of | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
various persuasions and by the Prime Minister and his predecessor. Over | :10:07. | :10:10. | |
the last two years, there has been much attention paid to adoption. | :10:11. | :10:16. | |
Widely it has been the subject of prime ministerial speeches, | :10:17. | :10:19. | |
government initiatives and newly announced funding streams. On | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
kinship care there has been radio silence. It is time we gave kinship | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
care the recognition and support that it deserves and that the | :10:30. | :10:35. | |
children so badly need. There is considerable interest in this debate | :10:36. | :10:39. | |
and I am afraid that has to be reflected if all colleagues could | :10:40. | :10:48. | |
keep to a five-minute limit. A pleasure to participate in this | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
debate and I congratulate my honourable friends because it is a | :10:54. | :11:00. | |
very important subject and they have done extraordinarily well in getting | :11:01. | :11:04. | |
it to the forefront of the chamber today. I agree with the honourable | :11:05. | :11:09. | |
member in his emphasis on important of kinship care. I have encountered | :11:10. | :11:15. | |
situations where solutions through kinship care would have been more | :11:16. | :11:18. | |
appropriate than what had happened so I concur with what he has said | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
and I would urge the Government to think have silly about ways in which | :11:24. | :11:28. | |
it can encourage that forward. The chief inspector of schools | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
frequently mention the importance of strong family life and I am pleased | :11:34. | :11:39. | |
to note that the Government in the water and statement extended the | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
troubled families programme which was started in 2013 and I think the | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
troubled families programme is a really important step because it | :11:50. | :11:52. | |
does signal what everybody really knows that good families are better | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
and so we must make sure that those families who do go through appalling | :11:58. | :12:04. | |
experiences are heading towards crises are given the appropriate | :12:05. | :12:07. | |
help and I think the Government is right to make it more easy for | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
separating parents to go through mediation rather than a full-scale | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
battle and I think that is another step in the right direction in terms | :12:17. | :12:18. | |
of family life. I would like to talk about several | :12:19. | :12:30. | |
things. The first is the role of social workers in these matters and | :12:31. | :12:33. | |
the importance of high standards of social work. To avoid the pitfalls | :12:34. | :12:41. | |
we encounter and have done in recent years. The two elements, and one | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
cropped up when we visited the Department of education has a select | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
committee. It is a question of leadership of social workers. Not | :12:51. | :12:54. | |
necessarily at director level but assistant director, to have the | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
right quality of decisions made in the right time. I would suggest that | :13:00. | :13:05. | |
what the Government should think about is the quality nature and | :13:06. | :13:12. | |
forward planning of social work in the local authority areas. That | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
brings me onto the next big point, agency cooperation. What I would | :13:18. | :13:21. | |
like to hear from the Minister is some comment on how the ministerial | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
task force on child protection is getting on. I would have thought one | :13:26. | :13:32. | |
key priority of that task force should in fact be to encourage | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
better agency cooperation and make it easier for agencies to work | :13:37. | :13:41. | |
together. I think that is an important direction of travel. It is | :13:42. | :13:46. | |
one I hope the education select committee will push forward itself. | :13:47. | :13:54. | |
I want to talk a little bit about pupil premium and children Centres. | :13:55. | :13:57. | |
I think these are linked and very important aspects of what we want to | :13:58. | :14:05. | |
talk about today. It is of course driven by children in poverty, but | :14:06. | :14:10. | |
of course there are links between those children and children who are | :14:11. | :14:18. | |
in trouble families. One instrument we should use is pupil premium to | :14:19. | :14:21. | |
identify and try and help children that are in jeopardy. The same logic | :14:22. | :14:28. | |
applies to the way in which we think our children Centres. Because they | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
are really useful places. In my constituency I see just how | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
important they are. We are looking at thousands of children in my | :14:39. | :14:41. | |
constituency going to well run children Centres and they benefit | :14:42. | :14:45. | |
from extraordinarily good services. I would say that we need to put the | :14:46. | :14:53. | |
spotlight on the value of children Centres, which are well run and | :14:54. | :14:56. | |
organised, certainly in my constituency. Two final points, we | :14:57. | :15:04. | |
need to talk about pH SC. That is something we have to talk about in | :15:05. | :15:10. | |
terms of statutory requirements and I have written to the Secretary of | :15:11. | :15:13. | |
State to urge her to very carefully think about that and I know we | :15:14. | :15:17. | |
continue to pressure rise that particular front. -- pressure. I had | :15:18. | :15:24. | |
a recent meeting with a youth Justice board. We heard earlier a | :15:25. | :15:30. | |
bit about children getting into difficulty with prison, with | :15:31. | :15:36. | |
criminal activity and so on. One key point made then and I repeat it now | :15:37. | :15:42. | |
is we need stronger, better and more transparent agency work and agency | :15:43. | :15:51. | |
cooperation. Thank you. Thank you, Mr Speaker. The member for Telford | :15:52. | :15:54. | |
is right to express concern at the rising numbers of children in care | :15:55. | :15:58. | |
and if more can be done to keep families together. Maybe | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
consideration should be given particularly for older children in | :16:03. | :16:05. | |
care homes whether the care system could be more flexible supporting | :16:06. | :16:08. | |
relationships with families if that is what the child wanted. In Denmark | :16:09. | :16:14. | |
there tends to be a stronger focus on prevention and family support. | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
That is characterised by the care system operating more flexibly | :16:19. | :16:21. | |
around the family. Residential care is likely to be more local and allow | :16:22. | :16:28. | |
work with the family. In 2015 there were six and 75,000 jobs and placed | :16:29. | :16:31. | |
in care in England. Children in homes are likely to have more | :16:32. | :16:34. | |
placements than children in foster care and significant social | :16:35. | :16:41. | |
difficulties... I am grateful to her for giving way. I am very aware that | :16:42. | :16:48. | |
care homes are not the best environment for bundle young people | :16:49. | :16:51. | |
with mental health issues to grow up in. -- vulnerable. The best | :16:52. | :16:55. | |
approaches to intervene before family crisis. Would she agree that | :16:56. | :17:01. | |
the cuts to local authorities like Manchester make it harder for those | :17:02. | :17:04. | |
authorities with the greatest need to provide services like sure start | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
to the families of the most abundant but children. -- most vulnerable | :17:10. | :17:15. | |
children. The point he makes is absolutely right. You need funding | :17:16. | :17:23. | |
for prevention. Children in homes are likely to have more significant | :17:24. | :17:28. | |
problems. In October 2015 the Government announced an independent | :17:29. | :17:35. | |
investigation into children in residential care. The aim of the | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
review which I welcomed was to try and end the disadvantage of | :17:40. | :17:42. | |
vulnerable children in care. The Minister knows there was a joint | :17:43. | :17:46. | |
enquiry into children missing from care conducted into an organisation | :17:47. | :17:54. | |
which I chair, looking at incidence of children missing from care homes | :17:55. | :17:57. | |
and concluding that one of the biggest problems was unequal | :17:58. | :18:02. | |
distribution and as a result large number is children were placed at a | :18:03. | :18:06. | |
distance from their home area. Many decisions were last-minute and | :18:07. | :18:09. | |
driven by what was available at the time and not the need of the child | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
and the child was often not involved in planning. The enquiry was told | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
that they felt dumped in homes many miles away from home. It increased | :18:19. | :18:22. | |
propensity to go missing and come to harm, for example, from sexual | :18:23. | :18:28. | |
exploitation. An expert group on the quality of children homes were set | :18:29. | :18:31. | |
up and reported to the Department for education in 2012. The | :18:32. | :18:36. | |
Government published a children home base package the same year. One key | :18:37. | :18:41. | |
finding of the expert group support was the pattern of supply of | :18:42. | :18:44. | |
children's homes was uneven across England. One reason may be property | :18:45. | :18:49. | |
prices being so much lower in some areas than others. It leads | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
companies to set up low-cost areas to suit businesses rather than what | :18:55. | :18:59. | |
is best for children. Figures show 79% of homes are in the private and | :19:00. | :19:04. | |
voluntary sector. In 2012 a charge up to ?5,000 per week for children | :19:05. | :19:09. | |
with difficult needs. ?1 billion per year is spent on local authorities | :19:10. | :19:13. | |
on children home bases. We have had concerns about the large number of | :19:14. | :19:17. | |
private equity firms involved. The report from the expert group in 2012 | :19:18. | :19:21. | |
made a number of recommendations to help remedy unequal distribution and | :19:22. | :19:26. | |
mitigate the impact of children placed at a distance. What has | :19:27. | :19:32. | |
changed since 2012? Children's homes were concentrated in the north-west, | :19:33. | :19:37. | |
West Midlands and south-east. The north-west is 15% of the children's | :19:38. | :19:41. | |
homes population but 25% of the children's homes. The 2014 data | :19:42. | :19:48. | |
shows the picture has not changed regarding location and numbers of | :19:49. | :19:52. | |
children placed at a distance. In 2014 and one third of children were | :19:53. | :19:55. | |
still 20 miles or further from the home area. It is difficult in think | :19:56. | :20:01. | |
progress was slow and we have the problem of -- disappointing that | :20:02. | :20:06. | |
progress is slow. This evidence is painting a picture of a market in | :20:07. | :20:11. | |
the interest of providers and not in the interest of children and young | :20:12. | :20:15. | |
people. I will come introducing new regulations recommended by the | :20:16. | :20:19. | |
expert group, particularly the need for a director of children's | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
services to approve a decision to place a child at a distant | :20:24. | :20:27. | |
placement. But I am not clear about how the effect of these regulations | :20:28. | :20:33. | |
will be monitored in assessment of better outcomes for children and | :20:34. | :20:37. | |
safeguarding children, particularly interested placements and I would be | :20:38. | :20:40. | |
grateful for more information from the Minister. The pack makes clear | :20:41. | :20:45. | |
local authorities are placing children far from home and they are | :20:46. | :20:48. | |
not putting them in poor quality provision but the main problem is | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
distance. It means the authority cannot rely on local knowledge and | :20:54. | :20:57. | |
intelligence about the quality of homes and suitability of locations. | :20:58. | :21:03. | |
It gives rise to significant travel times, limiting social work | :21:04. | :21:06. | |
oversight and the distance between the child and the family limiting | :21:07. | :21:10. | |
relationships and undermining the scope of work for the family. There | :21:11. | :21:15. | |
are other issues like quality of starving but it is the geographical | :21:16. | :21:18. | |
location of children's homes limiting choice for social workers | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
and the point of placement and an unsatisfactory placement for a child | :21:23. | :21:26. | |
will only compound the difficulty they might already have and add to | :21:27. | :21:31. | |
this trusting the system and increased incidence of going missing | :21:32. | :21:40. | |
and a risk of harm. Evidence continues to show a continuous | :21:41. | :21:43. | |
failure of unequal disabuse you of homes. Local authorities are the | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
only buyers of these places and commissioning cannot be the total of | :21:49. | :21:51. | |
decisions made according to availability and capacity. It must | :21:52. | :21:55. | |
proactively look into long-term needs of the children and local | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
authorities should look after that now and in future. As I mentioned, | :22:00. | :22:04. | |
the European model in which residential care is likely to be | :22:05. | :22:09. | |
local allows the family to visit and provides opportunities for | :22:10. | :22:12. | |
constructive work with parents. This approach aims to support the | :22:13. | :22:15. | |
resources of the family and instead what often happens, families feel | :22:16. | :22:20. | |
they have been identified as bailing and decisions are taken from them. | :22:21. | :22:28. | |
The key to this is local provision. Thank you. Can I start by commending | :22:29. | :22:32. | |
the honourable members that proposed this emotion? They did so for | :22:33. | :22:37. | |
laudable reasons. They can see the value of strong family and the role | :22:38. | :22:43. | |
they have in raising children. They are the granite on which society is | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
founded. The desire to work and help children to stay with them is to be | :22:49. | :22:51. | |
praised. They reckon I the limitation of the child protection | :22:52. | :22:54. | |
system and they seek to keep children out of it. Early | :22:55. | :22:58. | |
intervention, Roberta Vinci in and supporting kinship care and -- early | :22:59. | :23:03. | |
intervention is of course part of a coherent strategy. It should be | :23:04. | :23:09. | |
noted the subject of this debate is not strong families and optional | :23:10. | :23:12. | |
families and even the care system. The subject is about families and | :23:13. | :23:17. | |
households which often put the lives and well-being of children in | :23:18. | :23:23. | |
serious danger. Children in care removed from those families because | :23:24. | :23:26. | |
they are not save and because those families will not help them grow to | :23:27. | :23:32. | |
be healthy and independent adults, for them, stable families are | :23:33. | :23:36. | |
already out of reach. When this happens, the solution is not to | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
dither and apply half measures and wait and see. It falls to the state | :23:41. | :23:45. | |
to step in and protect children and if necessary remove them from | :23:46. | :23:50. | |
danger. It is not something which should be done lightly. It is far | :23:51. | :23:55. | |
from ideal. But it is done because we recognise waiting to see if | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
parents can improve and try to improve the home is too often a very | :24:00. | :24:05. | |
risky path to take. We have seen again and again in recent years the | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
wait and see approach and failure to act to quickly has resulted in | :24:10. | :24:17. | |
horrendous consequences. This cost of repeatedly failing to act is | :24:18. | :24:19. | |
often greater than the potential upside of trying to help children to | :24:20. | :24:26. | |
stay with their families. According to the NSPCC, most children in care | :24:27. | :24:29. | |
recognised eventually it was the right path for them. They recognise | :24:30. | :24:33. | |
the issues leading to them being in care in the first place. These were | :24:34. | :24:36. | |
dreadful situations demanding action. Once it is properly | :24:37. | :24:43. | |
established a child is in danger, and there are no safe kinship | :24:44. | :24:48. | |
alternatives, we have no choice but to take action. This applies in | :24:49. | :24:53. | |
cases of neglect and especially in cases of child cruelty. In matters | :24:54. | :24:59. | |
cruelty there are no second chances. There are not any for the child, or | :25:00. | :25:03. | |
baby, at risk of permanent harm and even death, there are not any... I | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
will give way to the honourable member. I thank him for giving way. | :25:08. | :25:14. | |
Does he agree that there are children taken into the care system | :25:15. | :25:18. | |
that are not harmed nor neglected and ripped reference to the point | :25:19. | :25:21. | |
about emotional abuse and potential emotional abuse and these are | :25:22. | :25:26. | |
subjective judgments which can be made? I do recognise that. But as I | :25:27. | :25:32. | |
said earlier, my general sense, having worked with the care system | :25:33. | :25:37. | |
in Council and subsequently is that in the majority of cases, bit is the | :25:38. | :25:41. | |
right decision for the child concerned. -- it is the right | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
decision. Most children are in some kind of danger, whether it is | :25:46. | :25:50. | |
emotional, or physical, causing the removal. As I said, they should not | :25:51. | :25:57. | |
be any second chances for parents either that put the children at | :25:58. | :26:02. | |
risk, or deliberately harmed them. I remind the House that to make this | :26:03. | :26:06. | |
case is not to argue that the state is better placed to look after | :26:07. | :26:11. | |
children and families. Nothing is. It is not right that children in | :26:12. | :26:15. | |
care are still so vulnerable and they have been destined for a | :26:16. | :26:18. | |
miserable life after they leave, but the fact we fail to many children in | :26:19. | :26:24. | |
care does not mean we have too many in care. Or that it is the wrong | :26:25. | :26:28. | |
thing to remove them from the families which were endangering | :26:29. | :26:34. | |
them. It does not follow. What follows is we should do more for | :26:35. | :26:37. | |
these children in care and continue with intervention quickly when the | :26:38. | :26:46. | |
need arises. My rejection of this motion is in two paths. The first as | :26:47. | :26:50. | |
I have said is given the danger of failing to intervene is so strong, I | :26:51. | :26:53. | |
think we should be intervening more. The Government has indicated it is | :26:54. | :27:07. | |
determined to make. The care system exist to keep children safe whether | :27:08. | :27:12. | |
families have failed them. The burden of looking after these | :27:13. | :27:20. | |
children falls on everyone. Proponents of the motion acknowledge | :27:21. | :27:23. | |
they are not safe with their family in the first place. Considering the | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
degree of damage that abuse and neglect can inflict in a short space | :27:29. | :27:32. | |
of time, we cannot take risks or gamble with their lives. In many | :27:33. | :27:37. | |
cases, children should be taken into care sooner. I am puzzled by his | :27:38. | :27:44. | |
contribution. There is no good the supporting this motion or sponsoring | :27:45. | :27:48. | |
this motion who does not believe that children who are in danger | :27:49. | :27:52. | |
should be removed from that danger quickly. His intention to vote | :27:53. | :28:02. | |
against this motion is on a total misconception. What we are trying to | :28:03. | :28:06. | |
say is that there are many children who go into care and their voice is | :28:07. | :28:11. | |
important, who actually would be better placed with family members | :28:12. | :28:15. | |
and would be happier with family members. I would suggest that is a | :28:16. | :28:20. | |
proposition that should unite the House not be defeated by some kind | :28:21. | :28:27. | |
of suggestion that people disagree that children should be removed from | :28:28. | :28:31. | |
the danger quickly. I agree that if they safe alternative can be found | :28:32. | :28:38. | |
with family, that should be encouraged. I do think the | :28:39. | :28:42. | |
Government could do more to support that is not the point of the motion, | :28:43. | :28:47. | |
the motion does not mention kinship care and the motion laments the rise | :28:48. | :28:53. | |
of the number of children in the care system and the point I am | :28:54. | :28:58. | |
trying to make is that while we as a social care system seek to intervene | :28:59. | :29:03. | |
with a family and tried to make the family home so far, there is still a | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
child who is remaining in the home who may still be damaged and we have | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
seen some horrendous situations where the social care system failed | :29:13. | :29:16. | |
to act quickly and my view is if we hide from this problem, hide behind | :29:17. | :29:21. | |
the idea that we may be able to make some progress with the family, we | :29:22. | :29:25. | |
are fundamentally gambling with the lives of those young people. In my | :29:26. | :29:34. | |
opening remarks I made reference to the fact that one in 100 children | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
are subject to child protection investigations and it is no secret | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
that my own son was subject to a child protection investigation and | :29:45. | :29:48. | |
so often families who are not what place to protect themselves from | :29:49. | :29:52. | |
that type of forcible state intervention and up in care when | :29:53. | :29:59. | |
they do not need to be there. As I said in my intervention, my | :30:00. | :30:03. | |
experience of the care system is not that the country is teaming with | :30:04. | :30:08. | |
malign care workers looking for children to purloined from their | :30:09. | :30:12. | |
parents and shove into the care system. These are professional | :30:13. | :30:16. | |
people who investigate largely professionally. Their motives are | :30:17. | :30:23. | |
good and right and more often than not they see cause for alarm that | :30:24. | :30:29. | |
requires action. My concern I guess about this motion is that after the | :30:30. | :30:36. | |
tragic case of baby Peter which has seen a rise in the number of | :30:37. | :30:41. | |
children in care, it was generally accepted that before that case, the | :30:42. | :30:45. | |
child protection system was not functioning correctly. I myself was | :30:46. | :30:53. | |
involved in the Victoria Quimby affair. There is another case where | :30:54. | :31:01. | |
the care system failed. It is not necessary that the system is | :31:02. | :31:07. | |
operated incorrectly but it may be operating correctly and my concern | :31:08. | :31:11. | |
about the motion today is about the signal it sends to social workers | :31:12. | :31:15. | |
about the desire of this house that they should attempt to leave | :31:16. | :31:20. | |
children in possibly damaging situations for longer while they | :31:21. | :31:23. | |
attempt the harder task of trying to turn the home around. I support the | :31:24. | :31:33. | |
motion wholeheartedly because one of the best things we can do is to | :31:34. | :31:40. | |
improve the prospects for children to be able to stay at home | :31:41. | :31:44. | |
successfully with their birth parents. However, there are many | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
things that need to be done in order to hop achieve that, not least the | :31:49. | :31:54. | |
availability of support for parents who otherwise would be in a | :31:55. | :31:57. | |
situation where children might be at risk and I think those members have | :31:58. | :32:02. | |
already commented on cuts to public services and the contribution those | :32:03. | :32:12. | |
have made in undermine Dean the -- undermining parents. The Government | :32:13. | :32:17. | |
needs to take a long look at the support and resources available not | :32:18. | :32:21. | |
least in local government then in the NHS. But equally as my | :32:22. | :32:29. | |
honourable friend sad, the Government needs to take a wider | :32:30. | :32:32. | |
look at all of the options available and while for many children the | :32:33. | :32:38. | |
option is the right option, it is about the right option always for | :32:39. | :32:42. | |
children and it is about always putting the child at the centre of | :32:43. | :32:47. | |
decisions that are taken and he is right when he says kinship care is | :32:48. | :32:51. | |
not something that has been considered. It should always be an | :32:52. | :32:56. | |
option considered if there are members of extended family available | :32:57. | :32:59. | |
and this is very clearly what we are trying to discuss today. We should | :33:00. | :33:07. | |
be doing all we can to avoid a situation where we have this very | :33:08. | :33:13. | |
high number, 86,000 children in care last year, and trying to reduce it | :33:14. | :33:20. | |
at all costs but it does involve significant intervention, early | :33:21. | :33:22. | |
intervention and prevention work, working with families where children | :33:23. | :33:28. | |
might be at risk, preventing the kind of neglect and abuse that leads | :33:29. | :33:32. | |
to children being taken into care in the first place. I should have | :33:33. | :33:40. | |
mentioned at the outset my reference in the member's interest as a | :33:41. | :33:49. | |
recently no longer a foster carer but I was briefly. I think one of | :33:50. | :33:58. | |
the challenges for this area is making sure we have the workforce to | :33:59. | :34:03. | |
deliver and it is making sure that we support, encourage and celebrate | :34:04. | :34:09. | |
the work of social workers and all who work with children, all who work | :34:10. | :34:13. | |
with families in trying to support and prevent the kind of breakdown | :34:14. | :34:18. | |
that leads to children going into care. But also supporting, | :34:19. | :34:23. | |
encouraging, recruiting the very best people to become foster carers | :34:24. | :34:27. | |
to work in residential children's care and to support those kinship | :34:28. | :34:32. | |
carers and parents so they are able to provide the best quality of care | :34:33. | :34:38. | |
in the source of situations that we are talking about. As has been said, | :34:39. | :34:44. | |
we should be looking at children in care as we do our own. The concept | :34:45. | :34:50. | |
of corporate parenting is another fine example of what the last | :34:51. | :34:55. | |
government introduced but I don't believe it is practised to the | :34:56. | :34:59. | |
extent it should be. We should ensure every child in the public | :35:00. | :35:04. | |
care system gets the support, encouragement and opportunity they | :35:05. | :35:08. | |
would do if they were our own children and that includes the | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
extension of staying put until 21 and beyond, not just in foster care | :35:13. | :35:19. | |
but is -- in residential care but we also need to learn from other | :35:20. | :35:23. | |
countries. In Denmark they have a very much long-term commitment to | :35:24. | :35:30. | |
support children in the use of social pedagogy and the development | :35:31. | :35:38. | |
and training of very experienced residential workers who live with | :35:39. | :35:43. | |
children over long periods of time to create family units. It's a very | :35:44. | :35:47. | |
successful model and there are examples of it in this country and | :35:48. | :35:51. | |
the Government should perhaps look at that example also, because | :35:52. | :35:55. | |
permanence for children is incredibly important and whether | :35:56. | :36:01. | |
that is with their birth family, kinship carers, foster care or | :36:02. | :36:05. | |
residential care, it is having that right option for each individual | :36:06. | :36:10. | |
child that really matters and is the most important. We should learn from | :36:11. | :36:14. | |
the best practice in this country and around the world as well. One | :36:15. | :36:20. | |
final comment, speed is incredibly important in these decisions and is | :36:21. | :36:24. | |
a decision is being taken, it should be very quickly whether a child | :36:25. | :36:29. | |
should remain with a birth family or not and it should always be what is | :36:30. | :36:41. | |
right for the individual child. My honourable friend speaks from a | :36:42. | :36:47. | |
rather more direct and personal experience than any of us would | :36:48. | :36:53. | |
like. Nobody could have higher opinion, greater respect for social | :36:54. | :36:56. | |
workers and child protection officers than I do. At the time I | :36:57. | :37:03. | |
was born, my mother was running a children's home in central | :37:04. | :37:05. | |
Birmingham so the first years of my life were spent living in a | :37:06. | :37:10. | |
children's home and being able to see at that age on a daily basis the | :37:11. | :37:16. | |
dedication, the care, the commitment, they love shown by the | :37:17. | :37:20. | |
workers in that children's home but I also know that even the most | :37:21. | :37:25. | |
compassionate and most dedicated social worker cannot possibly | :37:26. | :37:30. | |
replace the care and love of a family. That is why we must surely | :37:31. | :37:37. | |
do everything we can where possible, where there is in a thread of abuse | :37:38. | :37:43. | |
or serious neglect, to hop keep families together. It does seem the | :37:44. | :37:47. | |
pendulum has swung too far towards an assumption that where any kind of | :37:48. | :37:53. | |
concerns are raised that one of the options on the table is to take a | :37:54. | :37:58. | |
child into care and I think that is something we desperately need to | :37:59. | :38:10. | |
address. Nobody would argue against taking a child from an environment | :38:11. | :38:15. | |
where it is at risk of abuse or serious neglect, but the reality is | :38:16. | :38:20. | |
into many of the cases we have seen at our surgeries, that is simply not | :38:21. | :38:25. | |
the assessment that is being made. I had a case come to my surgery | :38:26. | :38:30. | |
shortly before Christmas and having read the magistrate's report, yes, | :38:31. | :38:37. | |
it was based primarily on a chaotic lifestyle and an untidy house. They | :38:38. | :38:41. | |
so clearly issues that need addressing but I don't think they | :38:42. | :38:45. | |
were serious threats to the welfare of the children and certainly not to | :38:46. | :38:52. | |
the safety of the children, so more support could be put into place to | :38:53. | :38:57. | |
help address those issues. It must be better for the families, | :38:58. | :39:02. | |
particularly for the children and of course much more economic for local | :39:03. | :39:07. | |
authorities and for the Government. One aspect of the care system that | :39:08. | :39:15. | |
has not yet been referred to is how we approach mental health of | :39:16. | :39:23. | |
parents. A lot of extremely valuable work has been done by a number of | :39:24. | :39:29. | |
members of this house, particularly the honourable gentleman for North | :39:30. | :39:37. | |
Norfolk, in establishing how the principle of parity of esteem | :39:38. | :39:42. | |
between physical and mental health but this is simply not the case | :39:43. | :39:48. | |
where the care system and assessments overtaking children into | :39:49. | :39:53. | |
care are concerned, where children are being taken into care really | :39:54. | :40:00. | |
parents really are suffering from mental illness and other mental | :40:01. | :40:05. | |
health issues. Yesterday a former Labour councillor in my constituency | :40:06. | :40:09. | |
wrote to me to highlight a case she had been involved with in the past. | :40:10. | :40:17. | |
It concerned a mother of three young children who had nursed her husband | :40:18. | :40:20. | |
through the advanced stages of cancer. Sadly her husband did pass | :40:21. | :40:28. | |
away and the mother, as I think many of us would, struggled to cope. | :40:29. | :40:35. | |
Unfortunately, those three children were taken into care. Rather than | :40:36. | :40:39. | |
making sure the mother receives the support she needed to look after the | :40:40. | :40:45. | |
children or to find a temporary solution, the children were taken | :40:46. | :40:49. | |
into care so not only the mother lost a husband, she lost her | :40:50. | :40:55. | |
children. In a short period of time, the children were taken away from | :40:56. | :41:02. | |
their mother. They were at a different school and they had lost | :41:03. | :41:06. | |
their friends also. This really matters because as has been referred | :41:07. | :41:12. | |
to, the outcomes for children in care are significantly worse than | :41:13. | :41:17. | |
the population as a whole, whether that's employment, housing, the | :41:18. | :41:21. | |
criminal justice system, educational achievement and that has to be | :41:22. | :41:27. | |
because of the things we cannot measure, the enormous psychological | :41:28. | :41:30. | |
and emotional impact of taking children away from their families. | :41:31. | :41:34. | |
The safety and welfare of children must come first but I do not think | :41:35. | :41:36. | |
that always applies. Can I agree with the focus of this | :41:37. | :41:46. | |
debate? In Slough, the care system has sadly not effectively protected | :41:47. | :41:52. | |
children. I am particularly sad that the services trust set up to try and | :41:53. | :41:58. | |
improve these services has not apparently done so effectively. The | :41:59. | :42:05. | |
minister is aware of the case of a two -year-old and I have written to | :42:06. | :42:09. | |
the Secretary of State about it. I would urge that the services trust | :42:10. | :42:15. | |
should be better monitored from the centre. I would like to speak about | :42:16. | :42:23. | |
an issue of children not in the care system but also not able to remain | :42:24. | :42:26. | |
safely at home with family, or extended family. If we do not plan | :42:27. | :42:33. | |
to include these children, I think we will fail to address some of the | :42:34. | :42:37. | |
issues that are urgent in this area and in particular I would like to | :42:38. | :42:43. | |
raise the issue of traffic children. Particularly children trafficked | :42:44. | :42:47. | |
across borders who as a commission report says, are more isolated from | :42:48. | :42:54. | |
protective networks than internally trafficked counterparts. The | :42:55. | :43:00. | |
Government published that report as a result of the pilot introduced on | :43:01. | :43:07. | |
child trafficking advocates. Only after intense pressure from these | :43:08. | :43:13. | |
benches did they agree to introduce any system of protection for | :43:14. | :43:19. | |
trafficked children. These are not guardians with legal powers. The | :43:20. | :43:27. | |
Government only had a pilot of the advocacy system. Unfortunately | :43:28. | :43:31. | |
despite the University of Bedford report making clear that this pilot | :43:32. | :43:36. | |
had been successful, Barnard those have not been commissioned to extend | :43:37. | :43:43. | |
the service they provide and neither has any subsequent service being | :43:44. | :43:48. | |
provided for. I would urge the Minister to speak directly with his | :43:49. | :43:53. | |
colleagues in the Home Office and make sure that there is a continued | :43:54. | :43:59. | |
advocacy, all that a guardianship provision, for these children. -- or | :44:00. | :44:10. | |
better, a guardianship. Some children are still disappearing and | :44:11. | :44:17. | |
it is clear from the report that the reason half of the children who | :44:18. | :44:22. | |
disappeared are overwhelmingly be enemies children trafficked into | :44:23. | :44:27. | |
cannabis farming, half of them disappeared before they had been | :44:28. | :44:34. | |
referred. -- Vietnamese children. In addition, within the report there | :44:35. | :44:38. | |
are clear examples of how advocates worked very hard to protect children | :44:39. | :44:46. | |
at risk of disappearing. But the fact they did not have legal powers | :44:47. | :44:52. | |
and could be ignored by local authorities meant that in one case | :44:53. | :44:56. | |
they were not able to persuade the local authority to put a trafficked | :44:57. | :45:00. | |
child into safe accommodation and the child then disappeared into the | :45:01. | :45:09. | |
hands of traffickers. In other cases they did not persuade a local | :45:10. | :45:12. | |
authority a child was a child and only because of the determination of | :45:13. | :45:20. | |
the advocacy services when that child re-entered the health care | :45:21. | :45:23. | |
system where they discovered again and referred to the Home Office | :45:24. | :45:29. | |
protection system again. I am very concerned indeed that this group of | :45:30. | :45:34. | |
children are falling through the gaps. I am very worried that it has | :45:35. | :45:42. | |
been regarded as an immigration issue and not a child protection | :45:43. | :45:46. | |
issue. I urge the children's minister in responding to this | :45:47. | :45:52. | |
debate to say that he is not prepared to tolerate one bit of the | :45:53. | :45:58. | |
Bedford report where there was not great support for this process, | :45:59. | :46:02. | |
where social workers felt they should have the money rather than | :46:03. | :46:06. | |
child protection advocate, but that he will also make sure that within | :46:07. | :46:12. | |
this month he will speak to the Home Office about continuing to fund | :46:13. | :46:18. | |
proper advocacy services, preferably child guardians with legal powers to | :46:19. | :46:23. | |
stop local authorities from ignoring the need for protection for those | :46:24. | :46:29. | |
children, so these children, like all other children in this country | :46:30. | :46:35. | |
can be properly kept safe. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would like to | :46:36. | :46:43. | |
congratulate the lady, the honourable gentleman, sorry, for | :46:44. | :46:48. | |
this debate. It is important, how we treat children in society. I would | :46:49. | :46:52. | |
like to bring to the attention of the Minister my experience of having | :46:53. | :46:56. | |
represented a parent whose children are taken into local authority care | :46:57. | :47:02. | |
and also a little bit about the fact I used to represent young people, | :47:03. | :47:07. | |
children with criminal offences and prosecuting adults that had abused | :47:08. | :47:11. | |
young people. I have worked with quite a lot of young people and seen | :47:12. | :47:16. | |
what happened in homes. I would like to concentrate on family law because | :47:17. | :47:19. | |
that is the area we do not get enough attention with. Especially | :47:20. | :47:26. | |
the legal process. I agree with what has been said by everybody, apart | :47:27. | :47:30. | |
from, of course, I do not share a lot of what the honourable gentleman | :47:31. | :47:33. | |
from Northwest and share was saying but apart from that I agree with | :47:34. | :47:36. | |
everything the members have been saying. And that is when HR charges | :47:37. | :47:43. | |
taken into care, nobody says children should not be taken into | :47:44. | :47:47. | |
care. -- when a child is taken into care. What has happened, this is my | :47:48. | :47:56. | |
concern, the pendulum is swinging the other way. Where there is a | :47:57. | :48:02. | |
slight expression of concern for children, the local authorities come | :48:03. | :48:05. | |
and take the child and put them with foster parents and then they deal | :48:06. | :48:10. | |
with the parents. They never try and actually look at the issue. It is | :48:11. | :48:16. | |
often families themselves, maybe lawyers will say, talk to the wider | :48:17. | :48:21. | |
family and say, would you put yourself forward and be a kinship | :48:22. | :48:25. | |
care for these people? Then the family comes forward and it will | :48:26. | :48:29. | |
take about eight weeks to carry out assessments of them to see if they | :48:30. | :48:34. | |
are suitable. One thing I suggest and I asked the Minister, actually | :48:35. | :48:39. | |
urge local authorities and social services that when they take the | :48:40. | :48:43. | |
child into care, maybe they should try and find a family member that | :48:44. | :48:49. | |
could look after the child, because I assure him that a child will | :48:50. | :48:54. | |
always feel happier with an auntie, uncle, older brother, or sister, as | :48:55. | :49:00. | |
opposed to a complete stranger. The second thing I noticed when I | :49:01. | :49:06. | |
practised in this field is children are often appointed a guardian, a | :49:07. | :49:11. | |
lawyer, and the social services are involved, but you rarely talk to the | :49:12. | :49:15. | |
children as to what they want. In one case I was banging my head | :49:16. | :49:19. | |
against a wall, especially with the legal representative, at you spoken | :49:20. | :49:23. | |
to the child about this, have you got any information from them? What | :49:24. | :49:27. | |
do they think? Where do you think they want to live? Complete silence. | :49:28. | :49:34. | |
A wall of silence. I was frustrated. If you want to do this, you should | :49:35. | :49:39. | |
ask these questions and try and find alternative sources. Thirdly, as you | :49:40. | :49:45. | |
probably know, when children are taken into care they sometimes have | :49:46. | :49:50. | |
opportunities to have supervised access to meet the parents in a | :49:51. | :49:55. | |
contact centre. Again, what often happens is it is an awkward date, | :49:56. | :50:02. | |
awkward time, and in awkward places. They are often not frequent | :50:03. | :50:04. | |
visitors. Again, you emphasise with social services, you try to increase | :50:05. | :50:09. | |
the number of visits for the parent and make the location more | :50:10. | :50:12. | |
assessable and allow more quality time with children so when the | :50:13. | :50:18. | |
process is finished, says one year down the road, the child will not | :50:19. | :50:21. | |
have forgotten his parents, or their parents. -- her parents. I asked the | :50:22. | :50:29. | |
Minister to ask social services to look at these aspects. I want to | :50:30. | :50:32. | |
talk about the fact that in relation to babies, I'm sorry to say that | :50:33. | :50:38. | |
there is an unseemly haste to place babies in care. We know most foster | :50:39. | :50:43. | |
parents, most want to adopt, they are happy to adopt babies but people | :50:44. | :50:48. | |
are reluctant to adopt toddlers, and older children. And whenever we have | :50:49. | :50:54. | |
a situation when a woman has got a baby, or a parent with a baby, they | :50:55. | :50:59. | |
are carted away to the adoption system before really working | :51:00. | :51:03. | |
properly with the family to see if the family could help. There will | :51:04. | :51:10. | |
always be families and situations with children where they are very | :51:11. | :51:13. | |
vulnerable and the family is never able to look after them. But in my | :51:14. | :51:18. | |
experience they are in a much smaller minority of cases. We hear | :51:19. | :51:22. | |
about it in the media but not the hundreds of cases which do not fall | :51:23. | :51:26. | |
in that category. We need to talk about thousands of cases were | :51:27. | :51:29. | |
working with the family at home and spending that money given to foster | :51:30. | :51:34. | |
parents on family to improve their homes and help parents look after | :51:35. | :51:39. | |
that, look after their job and, it would be a far better of the money. | :51:40. | :51:44. | |
I would like to make a brief contribution. If people would like | :51:45. | :51:47. | |
to read the unabridged version, it will be on my website at the end of | :51:48. | :51:54. | |
the day. I am the unpaid founder and chair of rebalancing the outer city | :51:55. | :51:58. | |
states charity and the early intervention foundation. I fully | :51:59. | :52:03. | |
support the Lady's motion on the order paper. I'm surprised | :52:04. | :52:07. | |
colleagues by not taking this opportunity again to talk about the | :52:08. | :52:11. | |
need for changing from late intervention philosophy to early | :52:12. | :52:15. | |
intervention. All the need for evidence -based policy making and | :52:16. | :52:19. | |
the need for a what works Organisation for the victims and | :52:20. | :52:23. | |
perpetrators of sexual abuse. Today I would like to take an opportunity | :52:24. | :52:29. | |
to put on record and speak to the need for local people, real people | :52:30. | :52:34. | |
in localities to make a difference in places like my constituency in | :52:35. | :52:39. | |
Nottingham North. In doing that, pay a well-deserved tribute to those | :52:40. | :52:43. | |
connected with the safe families for children programme, for the | :52:44. | :52:49. | |
phenomenal work. Safe families was brought to the UK and started in the | :52:50. | :52:53. | |
North East of England, entirely because of the energy and personal | :52:54. | :52:58. | |
commitment of Sir Peter Vardy. Having spoken to him about my own | :52:59. | :53:03. | |
constituency, with typical generosity he put at Nottingham's | :53:04. | :53:08. | |
disposal his fantastic team led by the Chief Executive Keith Danby, and | :53:09. | :53:13. | |
we worked out how we could take things forward on safe families in | :53:14. | :53:19. | |
Nottingham North. We have planning meetings involving the community, | :53:20. | :53:21. | |
convened under the rebalancing out-of-state charity and Nottingham | :53:22. | :53:26. | |
City Council put its weight behind the idea. Being immersed in our own | :53:27. | :53:33. | |
20-year intervention plan, this programme obviously works with many | :53:34. | :53:39. | |
other facets of Nottingham's early intervention city programme and with | :53:40. | :53:44. | |
the strategy of the far-sighted and talented team led by Katie Ball and | :53:45. | :53:50. | |
Kevin Bamfield. Simply, safe families works with three levels of | :53:51. | :53:53. | |
volunteers and colleagues might wish to take this up in their own | :53:54. | :53:57. | |
constituency. First, family friend of volunteers, trained to have the | :53:58. | :54:04. | |
families, very directly overcome the problems. Secondly, host family | :54:05. | :54:09. | |
volunteers, who look after the children for one night or one week, | :54:10. | :54:13. | |
whatever, after proper criminal record checks, giving the family the | :54:14. | :54:18. | |
time needed to get it together again and thirdly, with source friend | :54:19. | :54:25. | |
volunteers, who like you and me can perhaps contribute a bit of time | :54:26. | :54:29. | |
here and there to help with supply or delivering much-needed household | :54:30. | :54:33. | |
and other items to families in difficulty. Building the volunteer | :54:34. | :54:39. | |
critical Mass has been vital. The wonderful Osborne and the local safe | :54:40. | :54:44. | |
families for children Nottingham team have been brilliant and | :54:45. | :54:51. | |
recruited, trained and approved 240 volunteers in Nottingham and | :54:52. | :54:53. | |
throughout the East Midlands. Sadly, too many to name but I have met many | :54:54. | :54:59. | |
of them. Starting with faith -based communities and spreading to involve | :55:00. | :55:05. | |
people of all faiths and not. 80 months ago from Nottingham North, | :55:06. | :55:09. | |
the city of Nottingham has made 32 referrals and 49 children have been | :55:10. | :55:15. | |
supported, including 32 night postings with more in the pipeline | :55:16. | :55:19. | |
in the next few weeks. The financial benefit is enormous. A small upfront | :55:20. | :55:23. | |
investment of resource, time and effort avoids tens of thousands of | :55:24. | :55:28. | |
pounds in costs for every child not going into care. The average cost of | :55:29. | :55:35. | |
a looked after child is estimated at 48,000, excluding legal cost and | :55:36. | :55:39. | |
staff cost, and we are close in Nottingham to making our own | :55:40. | :55:42. | |
evidence -based savings protection based as we go beyond the 32 | :55:43. | :55:51. | |
referrals we have made so far. Safe families for children extended the | :55:52. | :55:54. | |
pilot and became a joint venture with the Department for education | :55:55. | :55:58. | |
children social care an innovation programme and the Nottingham | :55:59. | :56:02. | |
council. As with all ideas we trigger in the rebalancing charity, | :56:03. | :56:06. | |
the idea was pioneering safe families in one place and growing. | :56:07. | :56:12. | |
Now, using Nottingham has a heart, or four of the phase one safe | :56:13. | :56:17. | |
families partners, Derby, Derbyshire, Lincolnshire and | :56:18. | :56:20. | |
Northamptonshire, have been up and running for over one month and all | :56:21. | :56:28. | |
are now making referrals. I would like to ask the Minister | :56:29. | :56:30. | |
specifically if he will raise with the Treasury the possibility of | :56:31. | :56:35. | |
using this as a social investment programme and also if he will make | :56:36. | :56:38. | |
sure every council takes up a summer scheme. -- similar scheme. | :56:39. | :56:56. | |
Can I commend the honourable lady we -- honourable lady. It is clear to | :56:57. | :57:09. | |
me what it says. Before I go any further, can I take this opportunity | :57:10. | :57:15. | |
commend my colleagues on recently passing a vital new law which will | :57:16. | :57:19. | |
make a real and practical difference in the lives of many children in | :57:20. | :57:23. | |
care by removing bureaucracy and putting the needs of the child | :57:24. | :57:28. | |
first. By the 31st of March 2015 there were 2075 children in care. 4% | :57:29. | :57:40. | |
of those being looked after well less than a year, 25% were aged | :57:41. | :57:47. | |
between one and four, 30 4% were aged between five and 11, 24% were | :57:48. | :57:56. | |
aged between 12 and 16. The reason why I have given those statistics | :57:57. | :58:01. | |
for the House is to show the House that the majority of those in care | :58:02. | :58:05. | |
tend to be older children or teenagers. Perhaps the Minister can | :58:06. | :58:11. | |
give us some idea of his having discussions with the Northern | :58:12. | :58:16. | |
Ireland administration. 72% of children were four years old or | :58:17. | :58:21. | |
less. With figures like these, it is little wonder the majority of those | :58:22. | :58:29. | |
in care tend to be slightly older. The figures from the Office of | :58:30. | :58:35. | |
National Statistics claim children are four times more likely to suffer | :58:36. | :58:38. | |
mental health difficulties than those not in care. Children and | :58:39. | :58:44. | |
young people don't get the help early enough, these problems can get | :58:45. | :58:49. | |
worse. These problems can lead to children having challenging and | :58:50. | :58:54. | |
behavioural problems. This then causes yet further problems of | :58:55. | :58:57. | |
children's placements breakdown which will have a Dutch mental | :58:58. | :59:01. | |
impact on their emotional well-being and mental health. This is a | :59:02. | :59:06. | |
Catch-22 situation. A placement breakdown can mean increase costs as | :59:07. | :59:11. | |
a new placement has to be found and is children's mental health grows | :59:12. | :59:16. | |
worse, they need increasingly more specialist placements. The whole | :59:17. | :59:21. | |
thing gets more worse and compensated and complex. The | :59:22. | :59:24. | |
Department for Education revealed their children in care are less | :59:25. | :59:27. | |
likely to be doing well than their peers. These findings are further | :59:28. | :59:34. | |
supported by figures for March 2014 which showed 34% of care leavers | :59:35. | :59:38. | |
were not in education, employment or training by the age of 19. Another | :59:39. | :59:47. | |
statistic that cannot be ignored. Clearly more needs to be done to hop | :59:48. | :59:51. | |
those in care reach their academic potential is. I hope the Minister | :59:52. | :59:57. | |
can explain the steps taken to address this. It is important we get | :59:58. | :00:02. | |
it right for the young people at the correct age whenever they need the | :00:03. | :00:06. | |
direction, focused towards they want to be in adult life. More than half | :00:07. | :00:11. | |
of children are taken into care because of abuse or neglect and | :00:12. | :00:18. | |
25-35% of sexually exploited children are in care. There are a | :00:19. | :00:22. | |
number of charities who work to provide support and help for | :00:23. | :00:26. | |
children in the circumstances but much more needs to be done and more | :00:27. | :00:32. | |
needs to be taking place from the Minister and his department. I hope | :00:33. | :00:37. | |
he will be able to tell the House what the Department is doing to | :00:38. | :00:40. | |
support children who have suffered abuse. There are currently over | :00:41. | :00:46. | |
50,000 children identified as needing protection from abuse in the | :00:47. | :00:53. | |
UK. It has been estimated that for every child identified, a further | :00:54. | :00:56. | |
eight are suffering from child abuse. If those stats are correct, | :00:57. | :01:01. | |
this is an enormous problem which the Minister has to respond to. It | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
is little wonder why so many of those leaving care struggle with | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
mental health and all behavioural issues and instead of using children | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
to and fro, we need to help them deal with and overcome their | :01:15. | :01:19. | |
experiences. We have to do more to help the vulnerable in society. Not | :01:20. | :01:24. | |
only help children realise their potential, but how cut costs in the | :01:25. | :01:35. | |
system. I am delighted to participate in this debate today on | :01:36. | :01:40. | |
such an important issue. Indeed, after the cities of Glasgow and | :01:41. | :01:45. | |
Dundee, my own local authority has the highest rate of looked after | :01:46. | :01:51. | |
children in Scotland with 2.1% of young people currently being looked | :01:52. | :01:56. | |
after. In contrast with England where the figure is rising, there | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
has been progress in Scotland in recent years with a 3% fall in the | :02:00. | :02:03. | |
number of looked after children from 2013. I make that point because it | :02:04. | :02:11. | |
is important that lessons are learned and best practice is shared | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
in all corners of the United Kingdom. There are no easy answers | :02:16. | :02:18. | |
but there is much more that can be done. I listened with enormous | :02:19. | :02:28. | |
interest to the contribution from the honourable member from Hull | :02:29. | :02:31. | |
West. He talks about the fact that children are very often effectively | :02:32. | :02:37. | |
kicked out of residential care at the arbitrary age of 16. In Scotland | :02:38. | :02:43. | |
under the SNP government, young people in Foster, kinship or | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
residential care may extend their stay until the age of 21. Under the | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
provisions of children and young People's act. The SNP government has | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
further committed to providing support up to the age of 26 for care | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
leavers to hug them move to independent living. It has been | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
pointed out by several people in this debate so far that in terms of | :03:08. | :03:13. | |
reducing the number of children entering care, the focus must be on | :03:14. | :03:17. | |
preventative work and early intervention to support children and | :03:18. | :03:23. | |
young people and their families. Importance must be placed on early | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
engagement to support and build on the assets within families and | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
communities to prevent children being looked after whenever that is | :03:32. | :03:36. | |
possible. I agree that one of the most effective ways of providing | :03:37. | :03:42. | |
care is by way of kinship care. The work of kinship carers is not always | :03:43. | :03:47. | |
fully understood and all too often it is overlooked entirely. Indeed, | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
kinship care is often far more challenging than many realise and it | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
impacts enormously on the care of our's life as well as the child's. | :03:58. | :04:04. | |
For a grandparent it can be quite a daunting task, particularly when | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
they believe that life is going along a different path than the one | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
they had envisaged. It is wrong to assume as sometimes happens that | :04:14. | :04:16. | |
kinship care is simply a normal family obligation with near seamless | :04:17. | :04:21. | |
transitions from one household to another. The circumstances can often | :04:22. | :04:27. | |
be incredibly complex and difficult to deal with for both the child and | :04:28. | :04:33. | |
the carer. It is important therefore that we do what we can to recognise | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
and confront that reality and his poor kinship carers as they manage | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
in what are often difficult circumstances. In Scotland, | :04:43. | :04:50. | |
supported by the SNP, charities like children first carry out vital work | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
to support kinship carers through its national helpline and kinship | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
care service which of this advice, support and information to kinship | :05:00. | :05:04. | |
carers. Over the years, the SNP government have been moving in the | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
right direction to provide additional support to kinship | :05:09. | :05:11. | |
carers. Indeed the current government was the first to | :05:12. | :05:16. | |
introduce kinship care payments. The children and young people act in | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
Scotland also provided specific legal entitlements to support | :05:22. | :05:24. | |
kinship carers and for eligible children themselves. We know that | :05:25. | :05:30. | |
financial support is of huge importance when we consider the | :05:31. | :05:33. | |
increased costs of raising a dependent child and the fact that | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
43% of kinship carers have to give up work to fulfil that role | :05:39. | :05:41. | |
undoubtedly causing a financial strain. By supporting those caring | :05:42. | :05:48. | |
for our children, we support those children themselves and that must be | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
our focus. I was delighted last month when the Scottish Government | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
announced it would provide ?10.1 million to councils in Scotland to | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
raise kinship care allowances to the same level Foster families received, | :06:02. | :06:07. | |
helping to alleviate financial strain and recognising the important | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
work in ship carers undertake. This will help improve the lives of 5200 | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
children across Scotland in kinship care. Unfortunately, despite | :06:17. | :06:34. | |
assurances from the UK Government, many of them are affected and I urge | :06:35. | :06:40. | |
the Government to reflect on the assurances that were given to | :06:41. | :06:43. | |
kinship carers during the welfare reform discussions. I will be | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
interested to hear what the Minister has to say on that very point and I | :06:49. | :06:54. | |
would therefore hope members across the chamber recognise the | :06:55. | :06:57. | |
significant strain the welfare reforms have placed on kinship | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
carers and clearly hamper in their ability to provide the necessary | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
care to keep a child within the family unit, and I hope the | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
Government will think again about the impact these reforms have on | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
carers and look at the situation as a matter of urgency. I am grateful | :07:16. | :07:20. | |
this debate has been brought forward today and as I always say, I hope we | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
can share best practice across the border, across the UK as a whole. I | :07:26. | :07:36. | |
want to thank the honourable member for Telford for securing this | :07:37. | :07:40. | |
debate. The debate has been a short but very thoughtful one. Tensions | :07:41. | :07:46. | |
have been rightly focused on how we best help and support struggling | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
families and prevent children entering the care system. This is | :07:51. | :07:54. | |
also a timely debate with research published at the end of last year | :07:55. | :07:59. | |
finding that one in four women return to the family Court after | :08:00. | :08:02. | |
previously having a child child removed along with the number of | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
newborn babies subjected to care proceedings doubling over the last | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
five years. These findings are backed by the Department for | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
Education's figures which showed the number of children in care has | :08:16. | :08:21. | |
reached its highest since 1985 with the total population and 69,000 450. | :08:22. | :08:27. | |
This increase in children entering the care system is seen by many | :08:28. | :08:33. | |
including the education select committee's report into child | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
protection in 2012 as a reaction to the tragic death of baby Peter and | :08:38. | :08:42. | |
is supported by figures showing the majority of children in care is due | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
to neglect or abuse. This tells us more must be done regarding how we | :08:48. | :08:51. | |
support parents at the earliest opportunity is to avoid situations | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
like those of Daniel Pelka and many of the other high-profile cases. | :08:57. | :09:02. | |
They must have a serious rethink about the current strategies to | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
support families and how the huge social, personal and economic costs | :09:07. | :09:12. | |
of children going into care can be avoided. Though there are | :09:13. | :09:15. | |
circumstances where the best case scenario for a child may be for | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
their child to be taken into care based on the risks, this does not | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
mean as a society we should not feel ashamed of this failure to support | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
all families. They're rather to areas that the Government must | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
consider when it comes to reducing the number of children entering the | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
care system, including a more comprehensive early intervention and | :09:38. | :09:40. | |
prevention strategy and improving the support on offer to kinship | :09:41. | :09:46. | |
carers. There is an old African proverb I am sure you are familiar | :09:47. | :09:51. | |
with it, it takes a whole village to raise a child, which reminds us of | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
our collective due to to offer support and help to those who need | :09:56. | :10:01. | |
it most. When abuse and neglect are cited as the main reasons behind a | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
child being taken into care, it is clear that early intervention and | :10:07. | :10:10. | |
prevention programmes are needed to reduce the threat of neglect other | :10:11. | :10:15. | |
child in a family home and avoid the eventuality of a child being taken | :10:16. | :10:17. | |
into care. The manifesto calls for more support | :10:18. | :10:36. | |
to be given to families to help nurture and support a healthy family | :10:37. | :10:39. | |
environment for children to grow up in and I hope the Minister has had | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
the chance to read this excellent manifesto. If he has not, I am sure | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
his honourable friend will send you one. The National Audit Office | :10:50. | :10:54. | |
report cites one of the last Labour government 's greatest achievements | :10:55. | :11:01. | |
as a key measure that can help reduce children entering care. The | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
family focused vision of sure start centres brings together specialists, | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
professionals and practitioners to provide vital information to parents | :11:10. | :11:14. | |
on how to overcome the struggles of being new parents or coping with | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
challenging family circumstances in order that they don't fall apart and | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
descend into situations that will see a child removed. However, | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
according to an investigation last year by the Children's Society, cuts | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
to Whitehall budgets have meant overall spending on early | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
intervention programmes has fallen by 55% or 1.8 billion since 2010. | :11:36. | :11:44. | |
This sort shouted notes of cutting budgets is Dutch to a two division | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
we all share but which was laid out so well in the seminal early | :11:49. | :11:54. | |
intervention the next steps reports where he highlighted the 19 | :11:55. | :12:01. | |
intervention programmes as a blueprint for government. The top of | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
the list was the accident family partnership programme which was | :12:07. | :12:09. | |
piloted and has since been rolled out a little but it needs to go | :12:10. | :12:15. | |
further to become universal. We have also seen almost 800 sure start | :12:16. | :12:24. | |
children's Centres closed with many Shia shelves of themselves. | :12:25. | :12:33. | |
The Government are sifting through the consultation responses to the | :12:34. | :12:39. | |
future of sure start and a lack of regress in the report, it is | :12:40. | :12:45. | |
concerning that the following of sure start and the cuts to | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
intervention programmes families rely upon, like parenting classes, | :12:50. | :12:54. | |
drug and alcohol abuse support and domestic violence services, they | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
have not been cited as causes when trying to understand the increase in | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
children entering the care system. The push for greater early | :13:05. | :13:07. | |
intervention is vital to aggressively increase in children | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
entering the care system. We will still have a situation where | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
children will sadly had to be a move from families for their own safety. | :13:16. | :13:21. | |
All efforts must be made so that they are safely placed with extended | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
family members in a kinship care arrangements instead of within the | :13:27. | :13:31. | |
care system where possible. It is estimated there are 200,000 children | :13:32. | :13:34. | |
being raised by kinship carers across the UK. This is a significant | :13:35. | :13:40. | |
number of children being looked after by grandparents and other | :13:41. | :13:44. | |
relatives but we have had little development in support for kinship | :13:45. | :13:49. | |
carers by the Government, which mirrors recent announcements on | :13:50. | :13:53. | |
adoption. Allowing family members to Reichard instead of residential and | :13:54. | :13:57. | |
foster care is important for the developer of the child and can | :13:58. | :14:01. | |
produce a strain on local children services where budgets have been | :14:02. | :14:08. | |
devastated by cuts. It does not mean kinship carers should be seen as a | :14:09. | :14:11. | |
cheaper option for providing care. But as my honourable friend for | :14:12. | :14:16. | |
Kingston-upon-Hull West and Hessel made clear in his speech, they do | :14:17. | :14:21. | |
say the country millions of pounds by providing this care. Many kinship | :14:22. | :14:27. | |
carers become so because of emergency circumstances, meaning | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
that financial cost for raising the child is not acted into the budget | :14:32. | :14:38. | |
so the immediate cost for children to sleep in, it is exacerbated by | :14:39. | :14:47. | |
giving up jobs to look after children. Last year they found 49% | :14:48. | :14:55. | |
of respondents had to give up work permanently while analysis of the | :14:56. | :15:01. | |
2011 sensors found 76% of children living in kinship care were living | :15:02. | :15:05. | |
in deprived households. The lack of joined up thinking is laid the when | :15:06. | :15:10. | |
kinship carers were told to give up their jobs and are chased by DWP and | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
Athos and sanctions for not looking for work as the member for Hessel | :15:16. | :15:23. | |
raised earlier. I am gravely concerned how kinship and foster | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
carers will fare under the proposed two child policy when that comes | :15:29. | :15:33. | |
into force. And can I also echo what my friend said and plead with the | :15:34. | :15:38. | |
Minister for exemptions for kinship and foster care as if that policy | :15:39. | :15:43. | |
goes ahead. This is why it is important if the Government explores | :15:44. | :15:45. | |
how financial costs of the net kinship carer can be alleviated with | :15:46. | :15:51. | |
better access to funding already available and the entitlement on | :15:52. | :15:54. | |
offer to adopt children and foster children, where similar adversity is | :15:55. | :16:00. | |
shared so development is not hindered and regressed. The | :16:01. | :16:04. | |
Government must look at placing a chart with a kinship carer but new | :16:05. | :16:08. | |
guidance for local authorities published last year is helpful in | :16:09. | :16:13. | |
calling for more identification for potential family carers and there is | :16:14. | :16:17. | |
still no statutory duty on local authorities to explore options | :16:18. | :16:21. | |
first. It means many local authorities are looking into kinship | :16:22. | :16:24. | |
care after a child has been placed in the care system, causing up evil | :16:25. | :16:32. | |
for the child and extended family. It is the responsibility of all of | :16:33. | :16:35. | |
us to make sure every child, no matter what circumstances, as a safe | :16:36. | :16:40. | |
home to spend the Charles Uddin. But it is not the place for Ken -- spent | :16:41. | :16:48. | |
their childhood in. Continuing to fail these children is not an | :16:49. | :16:52. | |
option. We cannot fail them. We are the village. We need to help raise | :16:53. | :16:58. | |
them. I hope the Minister realises it is his moment to make a | :16:59. | :17:01. | |
difference to the lives of some of the most vulnerable children in | :17:02. | :17:05. | |
society and I hope he makes it count. Minister. Madam Deputy | :17:06. | :17:14. | |
Speaker, I would like to begin by explaining why I am answering this | :17:15. | :17:18. | |
debate in place of my honourable friend, the Minister of State for | :17:19. | :17:23. | |
children and families and member for Nantwich. I am sorry to tell the | :17:24. | :17:29. | |
House my honourable friend 's, mother Alex Thomson died peacefully | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
at home on Tuesday after a long illness. Many will know that with | :17:34. | :17:39. | |
her husband, Alex fostered around 90 children over 30 years as well as | :17:40. | :17:45. | |
adopting two boys into the family. My honourable friend always said it | :17:46. | :17:48. | |
was living with his mother's seemingly roundel as infuse yes, to | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
give so much love and to desperately needy children that shaped who he is | :17:54. | :18:02. | |
today. -- to give -- seemingly roundel as energy to give so much | :18:03. | :18:07. | |
love to desperately needy children that shaped who he is today. My | :18:08. | :18:12. | |
support to his friends and family. A lot has been said about kinship. | :18:13. | :18:19. | |
First, this is an important debate which has been secured today. A lot | :18:20. | :18:25. | |
has been said about the role of kinship carers. A casual comment was | :18:26. | :18:30. | |
made suggesting that somehow they are overlooked in the care system | :18:31. | :18:36. | |
and I would like to give the chamber the assurance that the, they are | :18:37. | :18:42. | |
very much a part of the department plan and yes, issues have been | :18:43. | :18:44. | |
raised in terms of Welfare Reform Bill, and more reads -- needs to be | :18:45. | :18:50. | |
done but it will be raised in course. I would like to talk about | :18:51. | :18:59. | |
the founder of kinship carers UK, she was awarded an MBE in the New | :19:00. | :19:03. | |
Year 's Honours list. That is because the important research work | :19:04. | :19:08. | |
in support mechanisms for kinship carers, the work they are doing, and | :19:09. | :19:11. | |
I know the member forwards to has brought this to the attention of the | :19:12. | :19:15. | |
Minister a number of times and this highlights it is that kinship carers | :19:16. | :19:20. | |
are important and the two are thinking. More broadly, the decision | :19:21. | :19:25. | |
to take a chart into care, these decisions flowing from that, whether | :19:26. | :19:30. | |
it is returning from a future point, staying in a long-term foster care, | :19:31. | :19:36. | |
or being adopted, they are serious and life changing events. It affects | :19:37. | :19:41. | |
not just children, but families and they are never taken lightly. I | :19:42. | :19:45. | |
welcome the opportunity to set out in very brief terms the Government | :19:46. | :19:51. | |
position, given the time I have. The Prime Minister made clear that the | :19:52. | :19:55. | |
Government is determined no child should be left behind. That | :19:56. | :19:59. | |
determination is even more pronounced when it comes to the most | :20:00. | :20:05. | |
vulnerable children in society. It means robust action to support | :20:06. | :20:09. | |
families and children so the need for children to enter care is | :20:10. | :20:14. | |
reduced. It also means improving the children's care system so when | :20:15. | :20:17. | |
children need to be taken into public care, they are well looked | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
after and supported to fulfil their potential. When they enter the care | :20:22. | :20:27. | |
of the state, the state is the parent and we want the same for | :20:28. | :20:32. | |
these children as we do for our own, the very best start in life. The | :20:33. | :20:36. | |
family rights group and its excellent work has been mentioned in | :20:37. | :20:42. | |
this debate. The Department has funded the group for many years and | :20:43. | :20:47. | |
they provide an invaluable service for many families that have taken on | :20:48. | :20:50. | |
the care of children who are relatives. There is a strong | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
evidence base that the top line should continue to be funded. We | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
will take this into account in forthcoming decisions about future | :21:00. | :21:07. | |
voluntary sector funding. Also the member for West Worthing and | :21:08. | :21:12. | |
Shoreham brought up the issue of the Monro duty. The government | :21:13. | :21:15. | |
acknowledges the vital role early help can play helping families when | :21:16. | :21:21. | |
the need arises and I will say more about that later. The government | :21:22. | :21:26. | |
considered implementing an early help Judy based on that | :21:27. | :21:31. | |
recommendation but concluded an explicit responsibility was not | :21:32. | :21:33. | |
necessary as we had existing statutory provision under the | :21:34. | :21:38. | |
children's act of 2000 for providing the said support. The Government | :21:39. | :21:42. | |
agreed to keep it under review and we continue to do that. -- 2004. We | :21:43. | :21:47. | |
make clear early help services should be part of continued support | :21:48. | :21:53. | |
for vulnerable children. The guidance sets out the need for | :21:54. | :21:57. | |
teachers and health visitors and police to be alert to the indicators | :21:58. | :22:00. | |
of abuse and neglect and work with families and children undertaking | :22:01. | :22:04. | |
early assessment and agree a package of support to prevent needs | :22:05. | :22:10. | |
escalating. More broadly we are committed to making sure that | :22:11. | :22:13. | |
children are protected from the risk of abuse and neglect. We want to | :22:14. | :22:19. | |
make sure they are identified early, have timely and proportionate | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
assessment of individual needs and the right services are provided for | :22:24. | :22:26. | |
them. It does not necessarily mean as many members are taken into care. | :22:27. | :22:34. | |
But nevertheless it is sometimes the right decision that children are | :22:35. | :22:37. | |
taken into care. These decisions are not easy. And the systems in which | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
these decisions are taken can always be improved. Over a two year period | :22:43. | :22:51. | |
up to March 2016 we invested 100 million in the children social care | :22:52. | :22:54. | |
innovation programme supporting 53 projects in the development, testing | :22:55. | :23:00. | |
and spreading of more effective ways to support children and families in | :23:01. | :23:02. | |
need of help on social care services. It concentrates on two | :23:03. | :23:10. | |
priorities. First, rethinking social work and empowering and supporting | :23:11. | :23:14. | |
front line decision-making, making that focus on the quality of work | :23:15. | :23:19. | |
with children and their families rather than management arrangements, | :23:20. | :23:23. | |
process and compliance. Secondly, rethinking support for adoptions on | :23:24. | :23:33. | |
the edge of care. In a world where spending and a lifetime in care, the | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
average length of care is 785 days and we are not talking about | :23:38. | :23:40. | |
supporting children only once they are in care. With the innovation | :23:41. | :23:44. | |
programme we have also supported a number of projects finding different | :23:45. | :23:48. | |
ways to support children and their families before it reaches that | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
stage. There are a number of projects I cannot, given the time I | :23:53. | :23:57. | |
have got, go into detail about. But I can say that a lot of what we are | :23:58. | :24:03. | |
looking at, a lot of what we are looking at is drawing together a lot | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
of practical work which can actually deliver for children who find | :24:08. | :24:12. | |
themselves in all of these vulnerable situations. Despite this | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
very good work it is however inevitable that there will always be | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
times when local authorities are required to take action and take | :24:22. | :24:25. | |
children into care. In the end there is one fundamental question that the | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
children act requires, what is in the best interests of the child? In | :24:31. | :24:37. | |
the preventative work I have touched on, we have also taken important | :24:38. | :24:40. | |
measure to make sure when children are taking into care, they are safe | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
and well looked after. -- taken. We have reformed the care planning | :24:46. | :24:53. | |
regulations to improve the safety of children in residential care, | :24:54. | :24:57. | |
including safeguards for when children are placed out of the area | :24:58. | :25:01. | |
and go missing. We have introduced quality standards for residential | :25:02. | :25:06. | |
settings and work is under way with reviews on how better coordination | :25:07. | :25:10. | |
and planning can be achieved across the secure children's services for | :25:11. | :25:15. | |
better provision. A lot of work is being done. It has been set up over | :25:16. | :25:20. | |
the last few months by my honourable friend, the Minister of State. | :25:21. | :25:25. | |
Again, I congratulate the minute -- member for Telford and the rest of | :25:26. | :25:29. | |
the members for bringing this debate forward and I look forward to | :25:30. | :25:33. | |
working with the House to making this world a better place for | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
vulnerable children. Lucy Allen. I extend my condolences to the member | :25:39. | :25:41. | |
for Crewe and Nantwich and I thank all of the members here today taking | :25:42. | :25:46. | |
the time to take such thoughtful contributors to this issue. I hope | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
it marks the beginning of this subject becoming something we talk | :25:51. | :25:54. | |
about more often. I am grateful to the Minister for listing to our | :25:55. | :25:57. | |
ideas, thoughts and experience which we personally bring to this issue | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
and ultimately it is about enhancing the life chances of the most of | :26:02. | :26:05. | |
honourable children. That is something we share as a common | :26:06. | :26:08. | |
interest and I am grateful to all members and the Minister. Thank you. | :26:09. | :26:14. | |
The question is has on the order paper. As many as are of the | :26:15. | :26:19. | |
opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no". The ayes have it. I beg to | :26:20. | :26:28. | |
move this House now adjourned. The question is this House do now | :26:29. | :26:31. | |
adjourned. I am grateful for this opportunity | :26:32. | :26:43. | |
to raise an issue which is disadvantage in case more but | :26:44. | :26:45. | |
runnable group of children in our country. Many of these are already | :26:46. | :26:49. | |
seriously disadvantage. Any extra problem is one which forces | :26:50. | :26:51. | |
considerable hardship. -- causes. | :26:52. | :26:55. |