Live Under-Occupancy Penalty Question House of Commons


Live Under-Occupancy Penalty Question

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do. I am afraid we must movd on Urgent question. Mr Owen Smhth.

:00:00.:00:08.

Thank you. May I ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions if he

:00:09.:00:12.

will make a statement on thd Court of Appeal ruling that the bddroom

:00:13.:00:16.

tax has caused discrimination contrary to article 14 of the

:00:17.:00:21.

European Convention on Human Rights? Justin Tomlinson. We know there are

:00:22.:00:27.

people who need extra support. That is why we are providing loc`l

:00:28.:00:30.

authorities with discretion`ry housing payment. Local authorities

:00:31.:00:35.

are best placed to assess pdople's needs in their area and identify

:00:36.:00:39.

where extra support is needdd. We have increased the amount of

:00:40.:00:41.

discretionary housing support available and on top of the ?56

:00:42.:00:47.

million, we are providing an extra ?870 million over the next 75 years.

:00:48.:00:55.

People involved are receiving discretionary payments. That is

:00:56.:00:59.

precisely why we have these and shows they are working. We welcome

:01:00.:01:02.

the fact the High Court and Court of Appeal both ruled that the public

:01:03.:01:09.

sector equality measure had been met, with respect to women. In that

:01:10.:01:20.

judgment, the court found that discretionary payments were

:01:21.:01:24.

appropriate for vulnerable people. It is a complex affair and hn terms

:01:25.:01:28.

of these two latest cases, ` very narrow ruling. In these casds, the

:01:29.:01:32.

High Court found in our favour and we fundamentally disagree whth

:01:33.:01:35.

yesterday's Court of Appeal ruling on the ECA chart. This is not a case

:01:36.:01:41.

of people losing money. Thex are in receipt of discretionary hotsing

:01:42.:01:44.

payments. It is about whethdr it is possible to define such exelptions

:01:45.:01:47.

or whether direct housing p`yments through local authorities ghve the

:01:48.:01:52.

right flexibility to help a wide range of those in need. The Court of

:01:53.:01:55.

Appeal has already granted permission to appeal and we will be

:01:56.:02:02.

appealing to the set green court -- Supreme Court. I am flabbergasted by

:02:03.:02:09.

this response and flabbergasted that the Secretary of State is once more

:02:10.:02:13.

ducking responsibilities. Wd knew the bedroom tax was cruel btt we now

:02:14.:02:17.

know that it is illegal. Thhs decisive ruling from the Cotrt of

:02:18.:02:20.

Appeal should mark the end to this pernicious policy. It could not have

:02:21.:02:27.

been more clear. The bedrool tax is unlawful and discriminatory. The

:02:28.:02:29.

Court of Appeal has considered to cases against the Secretary of

:02:30.:02:34.

State, who once again, is not prepared to defend his policy. One

:02:35.:02:39.

from a victim of rape, but hn a panic room installed by polhce and

:02:40.:02:43.

one from a family who I know personally, to whom I pay tribute

:02:44.:02:48.

for the care they provide to their disabled grandson and the bravery

:02:49.:02:52.

they have shown in taking on the Secretary of State. In both cases,

:02:53.:02:57.

it was ruled that the bedroom tax calls discrimination. They `dmitted

:02:58.:03:03.

discrimination had not been justified by the Secretary of State.

:03:04.:03:07.

The question to the Minister in place of the Secretary of State is,

:03:08.:03:11.

what does this really mean for the 450,000 families currently `ffected

:03:12.:03:15.

by the bedroom tax? If the Government is appealing to the

:03:16.:03:18.

Supreme Court, as extraordinarily it seems they are, can the minhsters

:03:19.:03:23.

tell us what specific grounds it is appealing? Crucially, as a latter of

:03:24.:03:27.

urgency, will the Government immediately exempt the two groups

:03:28.:03:31.

that have been found to havd been discriminated against from the

:03:32.:03:39.

bedroom tax? Victims of domdstic and is and the families of severely

:03:40.:03:41.

disabled children. Can the Linister confirm that those who have had

:03:42.:03:52.

panic rooms installed and exempting those people would cost the

:03:53.:03:59.

Government a mere ?200,000? By comparison, can he tell us home in

:04:00.:04:03.

the hundreds of thousands of pounds he has spent already on leg`l fees,

:04:04.:04:07.

defending this vile policy? And how much more he is prepared to spend?

:04:08.:04:12.

Is it a blank cheque to defdnd this to the end? Can the Minister also

:04:13.:04:16.

tell us how many families whth severely disabled children `re

:04:17.:04:20.

currently paying the bedrool tax? Can he informed the House what

:04:21.:04:25.

proportion of domestic by the victims and families with dhsabled

:04:26.:04:27.

children are in receipt of discretionary housing payments? This

:04:28.:04:35.

ruling was on specific crimds. Can the Minister confirm that the

:04:36.:04:38.

bedroom tax is failing in every regard? He talks of discrethonary

:04:39.:04:43.

housing payments. His own Government report admitted, 75% of victims do

:04:44.:04:52.

not receive PHP. Three quarters of those hit by the bedroom tax are

:04:53.:04:57.

cutting back on food. Only 4% had been able to move. 80% regularly run

:04:58.:05:03.

out of money. Politics is about choices. The choice which f`ces the

:05:04.:05:08.

Secretary of State today was very clear. He could have come to this

:05:09.:05:12.

House and admitted that this is a rotten policy that is punishing poor

:05:13.:05:17.

people across this country. And he could have scrapped it. Instead he

:05:18.:05:21.

sits on the front bench for going back to Caxton House to consult with

:05:22.:05:27.

his lawyers, in order to defend this policy against victims of domestic

:05:28.:05:32.

violence and parents of dis`bled children. Shameful! Justin

:05:33.:05:40.

Tomlinson. To be clear, this is about whether it is possibld to

:05:41.:05:45.

define such exemptions whether local authorities give the flexibhlity to

:05:46.:05:51.

help a wide range of people in need. We will appeal this to the Supreme

:05:52.:05:57.

Court. If you try to set straight categories, people, especially with

:05:58.:06:00.

unique circumstances and issues could fall just below an artificial

:06:01.:06:04.

line. That means they would miss out. Is it realistic to expdct that

:06:05.:06:09.

here in London we could set such an exhaustive list? Direct housing

:06:10.:06:13.

payments, of which we provide ? 70 million over the next five xears,

:06:14.:06:18.

give flexibility. It allows you to work with the police, social

:06:19.:06:23.

services, medical professionals to give co-ordinated support

:06:24.:06:29.

underwritten by the public sector equality duty. Politicians do face

:06:30.:06:34.

choices. When local housing allowance was introduced under the

:06:35.:06:37.

last Labour Government, there was no additional support provided. They

:06:38.:06:41.

would have faced exactly thd same challenges. I am it fine? Why has

:06:42.:06:52.

that changed much now? Wiki making references to tax. What abott the

:06:53.:06:56.

1.7 million people in the social housing waiting list? The 240,0 0

:06:57.:07:02.

people in overcrowded accomlodation? There is scant regard for them.

:07:03.:07:07.

These are the people we spe`k for. It is right to provide flexhbility

:07:08.:07:12.

and a coordinated approach. This is the right thing to do. Does the

:07:13.:07:16.

Minister agree that this is an issue of fairness? People in overcrowded

:07:17.:07:23.

accommodation and those waiting on social housing lists. We all see

:07:24.:07:33.

through casework, families on the waiting list, 1.7 million pdople

:07:34.:07:38.

across England, 241,000 in overcrowded accommodation, ht is

:07:39.:07:43.

right that we are trying to match the right accommodation to people's

:07:44.:07:48.

individual needs. I cannot believe that we have just heard somdone from

:07:49.:07:52.

the Tory backbenches saying this is about fairness. Because that is

:07:53.:07:56.

exactly what this is about. Is it not a disgrace, when this is the

:07:57.:07:59.

policy the Secretary of State, sitting there whispering into the of

:08:00.:08:07.

his Minister, the decision on the courts follows a series of

:08:08.:08:11.

embarrassing that is for thd Secretary of State. There is also a

:08:12.:08:16.

United Nations investigation into the UK Government welfare policy.

:08:17.:08:22.

The SNP Scottish Government has committed ?90 million to mitigating

:08:23.:08:25.

the effects of the bedroom tax in Scotland. To stop the threat of

:08:26.:08:31.

eviction imposed by this Dickensian Tory policy. We will end thd bedroom

:08:32.:08:35.

tax when we have the powers to do so. The Secretary of State will not

:08:36.:08:39.

heed the warnings of the SNP, when he at least listen to the rtins of

:08:40.:08:43.

some of the highest courts `nd scrap this unfair and discriminatory tax

:08:44.:08:47.

and think again about the pdrsimmons of how those cuts are damaghng vital

:08:48.:08:54.

support? The parliament in London did not stop this. Thank he`vens the

:08:55.:09:00.

court has intervened. It is little wonder the Tories are so unpopular

:09:01.:09:04.

in Scotland. They have returned to being the nastier party thex were

:09:05.:09:09.

under Thatcher. This time under Cameron and Osborne. The honourable

:09:10.:09:13.

gentleman has rather exceeddd his time. This policy is discrilinatory

:09:14.:09:21.

and unlawful. Will he agreed to scrapping this Draconian policy

:09:22.:09:30.

In terms of fairness, we all talk to those families on the housing

:09:31.:09:39.

waiting list. Try explain to them why we shouldn't make more of the

:09:40.:09:44.

accommodation available to them We have already provided greatdr

:09:45.:09:47.

flexibility in Scotland through devolution to do what you whsh to do

:09:48.:09:52.

with discretionary housing payments. Clearly, we shall all wait for the

:09:53.:09:57.

Supreme Court judgment, but there are two points today that mtst be

:09:58.:10:02.

clear. Does the Minister agree with me that the incredible indignation

:10:03.:10:06.

gathered by the Shadow minister is blown apart by the fact that the

:10:07.:10:10.

family in question are in f`ct receiving exactly the same `mount of

:10:11.:10:14.

benefits they were before the introduction of the spare bddroom

:10:15.:10:18.

subsidy, and the opportunisl issued very clearly that it was taken away

:10:19.:10:24.

for the much larger number of people and the private sector? I thank my

:10:25.:10:30.

honourable friend, that is absolutely right. They are hn

:10:31.:10:34.

receipt of payment, which shows discretionary housing payments to

:10:35.:10:37.

work and shows with flexibility you can do a coordinated approach with

:10:38.:10:41.

police, social services, medical professionals and other agencies. Mr

:10:42.:10:46.

Speaker, will the Minister wake up at? The fact of the matter hs that

:10:47.:10:53.

this is even dicta of policx, and it is also a policy that with the

:10:54.:10:58.

selling off of the housing associations, ducks the real

:10:59.:11:02.

question was not holding appropriate housing for people in this country

:11:03.:11:06.

could is a diversion, get on with the real job. That is why otr ?

:11:07.:11:11.

million programme of Doug whether a further 400,000 housing in this

:11:12.:11:19.

Parliament. We will reverse the loss of 400,000 homes under the last

:11:20.:11:23.

Labour Government. Whilst I agree with my honourable friend and I

:11:24.:11:28.

think the question of fairndss is vital. So many in Northumberland

:11:29.:11:33.

really struggled to find a home and I think it is equally -- kex

:11:34.:11:43.

question of equality. I would ask the Minister consider ways to help

:11:44.:11:46.

the local authority to find new systems for matching familids to the

:11:47.:11:51.

right homes? That is why it is so important that we are incre`sing

:11:52.:11:55.

housing building starts. Landlords are already displaying changes to

:11:56.:11:59.

new housing stock in order to match those changes. Has the Government is

:12:00.:12:06.

now effectively abandoned the principle of a benefit systdm which

:12:07.:12:10.

properly assesses people according to needs and circumstances, and then

:12:11.:12:16.

pays them a benefit whatever those circumstances last? Instead, the

:12:17.:12:19.

answer to everything seems to be discretionary housing payments. They

:12:20.:12:24.

are paid on a case-by-case basis. 75% of people on bedroom tax do not

:12:25.:12:29.

get them. And the time limited as well. Does he recognise the enormous

:12:30.:12:33.

uncertainty this creates and a hardship for people in very real

:12:34.:12:38.

housing need? I have a huge amount of respect for his knowledgd of

:12:39.:12:42.

local authorities, but like him I have served on one and trust their

:12:43.:12:47.

ability to work with other `gencies. Remember, this is underwritten by

:12:48.:12:51.

the public sector of qualitx duty, which make sure all this usd are

:12:52.:12:56.

considered. Could my honour`ble friend set out the exceptions there

:12:57.:13:07.

are to the spare room subsidy. We have pensioners, those with disabled

:13:08.:13:12.

children who cannot share a room and foster carers, and those who have

:13:13.:13:18.

got... Those serving in the Armed Forces who are currently deployed.

:13:19.:13:23.

The discretionary payments `llows for that flexibility to look at

:13:24.:13:27.

individual circumstances with a coordinated approach. If we tried to

:13:28.:13:31.

come up with an exhaustive list they would be double who wotld fall

:13:32.:13:35.

below that line and miss out on any support. That is unacceptable.

:13:36.:13:40.

Unpaid family carers, they `re not included in that list. Why should

:13:41.:13:49.

people like carers live in fear of losing their homes, and adapted

:13:50.:13:53.

bungalow in this case? 60,000 carers hit by the bedroom tax. It has

:13:54.:14:00.

always been a logical... Can he not see that what he should do now,

:14:01.:14:04.

what's the Secretary of State should do is to abandon the policy and

:14:05.:14:08.

recognise that carers should not be hit with this? We in this House

:14:09.:14:14.

recognise the valuable role carers play in society. Discretion`ry

:14:15.:14:17.

housing payments is an opportunity to provide that. When this was

:14:18.:14:23.

introduced in the private sdctor, why was there no arguments to say

:14:24.:14:26.

there should be exemptions for carers in the private sector? One

:14:27.:14:33.

will then, one rule now. With the Minister agree that to have a list

:14:34.:14:36.

of strict criteria would undermine the whole point of having a

:14:37.:14:40.

discretionary housing payment system? Would he also agree that it

:14:41.:14:44.

is interesting to see false anger from the party that introduced this

:14:45.:14:48.

for tenants on housing benefit in the private sector? I thank my

:14:49.:14:54.

honourable friend for that. It gives discretion and it allows a

:14:55.:14:57.

multi-agency approach to help people on individual needs. People do not

:14:58.:15:02.

need to lay fall into a convenient box in society. You have to have

:15:03.:15:05.

discretion and flexibility to do the right thing. Thank you very much, Mr

:15:06.:15:14.

Speaker. After his embarrassment, will those affected get an `pology

:15:15.:15:17.

on the bedroom tax from the dispatch box? We think this is a good policy,

:15:18.:15:24.

helping the 1.7 million people on the waiting list, finding dhscretion

:15:25.:15:27.

and not creating artificial lines which people can fall beneath. If it

:15:28.:15:33.

were not out of order, would my honourable friend not agree with me

:15:34.:15:39.

that given that the party opposite introduced this very principle for

:15:40.:15:42.

the private sector, their ottrage now is hypocritical? I thank my

:15:43.:15:49.

honourable friend. I hope it isn't out of order, because I fully agree.

:15:50.:15:55.

If it were, I would have ruled thus, and it wasn't, so I did not. We will

:15:56.:16:00.

leave it at that. I am alwaxs grateful to the honourable gentleman

:16:01.:16:04.

for his advice. In this instance, it suffers from the material at an

:16:05.:16:09.

advantage of being wrong. I would just like to ask a simple qtestion

:16:10.:16:13.

asked by Mr Paul Rutherford. Why would the Government spend tax

:16:14.:16:20.

payers' money on an appeal? We make sure those are vulnerable gdt the

:16:21.:16:27.

right support. Mr Speaker, now my honourable friend has reminded the

:16:28.:16:30.

party opposite of what they did in Government, but can he also remind

:16:31.:16:33.

them it is not a tax when you treat people equally? I thank my

:16:34.:16:37.

honourable friend repeating that point so eloquently. My council has

:16:38.:16:49.

added money above the arbitrary and tokenistic housing payments. Will

:16:50.:16:53.

the Government increased discretionary payments under the

:16:54.:16:59.

Supreme Court ruling? We have committed ?870 million over this

:17:00.:17:01.

Parliament. It is a considerable amount of money. At the halfway

:17:02.:17:06.

point of the year, most loc`l authorities have not even spend 50%.

:17:07.:17:10.

I hope they will continue to look at ways to support vulnerable people.

:17:11.:17:18.

Is there more the Government can do to encourage and enable councils to

:17:19.:17:23.

make discretionary awards? To provide certainty that they can

:17:24.:17:28.

afford rent? That is an important point to make. We are looking to do

:17:29.:17:32.

that, to encourage greater common sense to be applied. Mr Spe`ker the

:17:33.:17:39.

financial conduct for it me this week that 40% of adults in ly

:17:40.:17:44.

constituency are suffering severe debt problems. That is becatse we

:17:45.:17:49.

have over 3000 families suffering the bedroom tax, which is the

:17:50.:17:54.

highest in the land. It is ` debt bondage going on here. Will the

:17:55.:17:59.

Minister come to my constittency, at my request, and meet people

:18:00.:18:01.

suffering the bedroom tax, `nd particularly women in my safe spot

:18:02.:18:05.

the scheme, who suffered dolestic violence and are now being punished

:18:06.:18:11.

by this ruling that the Govdrnment are coming out with? I am a

:18:12.:18:20.

constituency MP as well as ` minister. We have trebled the

:18:21.:18:23.

funding to support victims of domestic abuse to ?40 million a

:18:24.:18:27.

year. Every year is housing have fallen for the last years as well.

:18:28.:18:41.

-- arrears have fallen. Does my honourable friend agree that no

:18:42.:18:47.

change should be considered until the Supreme Court has made ` final

:18:48.:18:57.

ruling? That is absolutely the case. In Northern Ireland, 66% of housing

:18:58.:19:02.

tenants and 62% of all existing housing benefit recipients, under

:19:03.:19:09.

the fresh start agreement, dxcepted just last year, it has been agreed

:19:10.:19:14.

that money is to offset that will come out of the Northern Irdland

:19:15.:19:17.

block grant. Has the Ministdr had any discussions with the other

:19:18.:19:20.

devolved administrations to enable them legally to make further

:19:21.:19:26.

decisions? I have not, but H will look at that. As the Ministdr has

:19:27.:19:33.

said on several occasions, hn both these cases, the appellants were

:19:34.:19:37.

actually in receipt of discretionary payments. Does he therefore agree

:19:38.:19:40.

with me that this demonstrates the fund is working and helping those

:19:41.:19:46.

most in need? This is exactly why we are getting the money to thd people

:19:47.:19:52.

who need it, and rightly so. Given that one of the main drivers of this

:19:53.:19:58.

policy was to force people to find alternative accommodation, but the

:19:59.:20:01.

majority have state puts despite these difficulties, does thhs not

:20:02.:20:05.

sure that not only is this policy inhumane, cruel and is

:20:06.:20:09.

discriminatory, but it is also a failure? I absolutely disagree. 16%

:20:10.:20:15.

had registered to move in Atgust 20 14. Remember those 1.7 millhon

:20:16.:20:22.

people, 241,000 people in overcrowded accommodation. They need

:20:23.:20:24.

the same chance that those people had. It is the right thing to do.

:20:25.:20:32.

Some of my most moving meethngs with constituents have been with those

:20:33.:20:35.

who are in unique circumstances and who need help very gratefully. Does

:20:36.:20:39.

the Minister agree that it hs precisely because there is

:20:40.:20:42.

discretion in the system th`t the Government is able to help those in

:20:43.:20:46.

need? I thank my honourable friend for that. It is just one ex`mple we

:20:47.:20:52.

have of supporting people. There is a 79% increase in the disabhlity

:20:53.:20:56.

facilities Grant for next ydar, which will significantly increase

:20:57.:20:59.

the 40,000 properties per ydar we are helping adapt. Thank yot, Mr

:21:00.:21:08.

Speaker. The bedroom tax is the most unpopular tax since another Tory

:21:09.:21:12.

invention, the Tory tax. Thd poll tax. Given this recent judglent

:21:13.:21:20.

surely this is an opportunity for the Government to review its

:21:21.:21:23.

position? Why will the Government not to take that opportunitx and

:21:24.:21:27.

scrap this tax once and for? I will gently remind the honourabld member

:21:28.:21:31.

that this is not a tax and hf it was so desperately unpopular, why are we

:21:32.:21:36.

in Government? Thank you, Mr Speaker. On the issue of fahrness,

:21:37.:21:41.

I'm sure we will think it is fair they have subsidised social housing

:21:42.:21:45.

so that people pay about 30$ of rent in some cases. They do not think it

:21:46.:21:50.

is fair they subsidise their 2% of market rent, people having spare

:21:51.:21:54.

rooms we do not use or need. If I suspect the Minister is unable to

:21:55.:21:57.

come to the dispatch box and give a definitive list of the cases where a

:21:58.:22:01.

spare room is needed, surelx that shows our discretionary system is

:22:02.:22:04.

the best one and one we must continue with? That is exactly the

:22:05.:22:10.

point. It seems the opposithon wants to create this artificial btyer

:22:11.:22:12.

which will see some people who will miss out, who should be getting

:22:13.:22:19.

support and that is not accdptable. Extraordinary cynicism by the

:22:20.:22:22.

Minister to talk about houshng waiting lists when the Government is

:22:23.:22:27.

forcing the subsidising of housing associations. How can he explain

:22:28.:22:32.

that only 5% of people who have been affected by the bedroom tax have

:22:33.:22:35.

been able to move? More than ten times that number have been unable

:22:36.:22:41.

to. To object to allowing pdople to have the opportunity to buy their

:22:42.:22:45.

own home, we're not all frol gifted backgrounds and people should have

:22:46.:22:48.

an opportunity to do that. That will raise funds for new housing in turn.

:22:49.:22:53.

The amount we spend on houshng benefit scored by 15% in thd last

:22:54.:22:58.

years of the Labour Governmdnt. We now spend more on housing bdnefits

:22:59.:23:03.

than we spend on secondary education, 50% of the Ministry

:23:04.:23:06.

defence budget, and yet, thdre is a chronic 's shortage of soci`l

:23:07.:23:10.

housing. With the Minister `gree with me that there is no -- that no

:23:11.:23:16.

reasonable, confident governorate would be trying to find solttions

:23:17.:23:23.

for these problems? The mondy spent was ?24.4 billion. We will know

:23:24.:23:27.

spends ?26 billion per year. The opposition are according to scrap

:23:28.:23:30.

the spare a subsidy policy `nd that would be an extra ?2.5 billhon in

:23:31.:23:39.

the ever-growing black hole. 71 500 people would be affected for the

:23:40.:23:42.

bedroom tax if it was not the actions of SNP mitigating that. This

:23:43.:23:47.

UK Government policy is verx clearly discriminatory and has eight

:23:48.:23:51.

devastating impact on vulnerable people in society. We have seen an

:23:52.:23:57.

astonishing tax deal with Google, hailed by the Chancellor. Is it not

:23:58.:24:00.

time this Government stopped prioritising sweetheart tax deals?

:24:01.:24:09.

Well, no, because I wonder how the SNP will actually explain to those

:24:10.:24:12.

people on the waiting list why effort are not being made to create

:24:13.:24:19.

more appropriate housing? Whth my honourable friend confirm to me that

:24:20.:24:25.

before this reform, 820,000 spare rooms were paid for by the taxpayer.

:24:26.:24:34.

Not only wasting taxpayers' money, but also going over their hdads

:24:35.:24:39.

Absolutely. That was no help at all to those families in overcrowded

:24:40.:24:41.

accommodation. This is complex but will thd

:24:42.:24:50.

Minister accept that this is about straightforward suffering? People

:24:51.:24:54.

already struggling with hardship who have literally nowhere else to go?

:24:55.:24:59.

Not at all. These people have been given the money that shows

:25:00.:25:07.

discretionary housing payment works. When the party opposite introduced

:25:08.:25:12.

the spare room subsidy for the private sector, there was no

:25:13.:25:14.

discretionary housing payment that went with it. Have we made `n

:25:15.:25:20.

assessment as to whether we can extend it to the spare room subsidy

:25:21.:25:26.

introduced by the party opposite? Why wasn't the case that thdre was

:25:27.:25:29.

no additional support provided to vulnerable people when it w`s

:25:30.:25:32.

introduced in the private sdctor? That not there. My apologies. I have

:25:33.:25:42.

lost my voice. The honourable gentleman has lost his voicd. I am

:25:43.:25:46.

saddened by that. We owe hil a degree of quietude so we might

:25:47.:25:53.

detect what he has two safe. On a point of fact, will the Minhster and

:25:54.:25:57.

his officials, by the end of today, be able to supply me and other Welsh

:25:58.:26:03.

MPs with a list of how many people who are households where thdre are

:26:04.:26:09.

victims of domestic by or dhsabled children, and on the point of common

:26:10.:26:13.

decency, if he and his ministers are not able to issue an apologx today,

:26:14.:26:19.

if this decision is upheld, with even apologise? I am not sure we can

:26:20.:26:24.

get in all that information by the end of the day. We will get through

:26:25.:26:28.

as much of that as has been requested. Irrespective of the fact

:26:29.:26:34.

that the Minister ignores the court ruling, why is housing benefit

:26:35.:26:39.

estimated to go above 25 billion next year? We are not ignorhng the

:26:40.:26:47.

ruling. We are appealing it. We feel discretionary housing payment is the

:26:48.:26:51.

correct way. Reform takes thme to come in. ?24.4 billion in housing

:26:52.:26:57.

benefit, had we not rotten reforms which the party opposite has

:26:58.:26:59.

opposed, it would be ?26 billion this year. Given yesterday's

:27:00.:27:07.

landmark ruling, given the report from the UN on housing which said

:27:08.:27:14.

the bedroom tax damaged livds of citizens and given the fact that

:27:15.:27:17.

there is scarce housing with that particular need, could the Linister

:27:18.:27:24.

indicate today in a compasshonate way that the Government will abandon

:27:25.:27:35.

this bedroom tax? No. When the Government consulted on the bedroom

:27:36.:27:42.

tax, how many disability organisations warned the Department

:27:43.:27:45.

of the discriminatory naturd of this measure? I was there advice ignored

:27:46.:27:51.

at such substantial cost to the taxpayer? There was full and wide

:27:52.:27:55.

consultation in the developlent of this policy. The SNP is building

:27:56.:28:05.

record numbers of council housing in Scotland. The new right to buy was

:28:06.:28:11.

introduced in 2013. There h`s been 30,000 sales of houses in England

:28:12.:28:17.

and Wales and less than 3000 new starts. You cannot they say that

:28:18.:28:20.

your housing bill will solvd this problem. The High Court rulhng says

:28:21.:28:27.

that because BHP cannot be guaranteed, it is disgrace three. We

:28:28.:28:31.

are against the bedroom tax altogether. Is it not time the

:28:32.:28:36.

Government things again? Yot must think again. I have met famhlies on

:28:37.:28:43.

the waiting lists wanting to see properties become available. In

:28:44.:28:50.

Fareham, we have over 1000 people on housing waiting lists. Incltding

:28:51.:28:55.

young families with children. With the Minister please provide a

:28:56.:29:00.

breakdown per constituency, of how many people are on housing waiting

:29:01.:29:06.

lists, so we can better unddrstand the extent of this problem? I cannot

:29:07.:29:13.

provide the breakdown instantly for every constituency but we are making

:29:14.:29:18.

efforts. The ?20 billion worth of measures to increase housing supply

:29:19.:29:22.

will help people get out of overcrowded properties and off

:29:23.:29:24.

waiting lists into appropri`te accommodation. How much mondy so far

:29:25.:29:36.

has been wasted on defending this cruel policy, in terms of ldgal

:29:37.:29:41.

fees? It is not cruel to provide support to the most vulnerable in

:29:42.:29:47.

society. And it is also sensible, 82 and a half billion pound extra cost,

:29:48.:29:50.

if the party opposite was to this policy. Will the Minister agree that

:29:51.:29:56.

not only is discretionary housing payment the right way to address the

:29:57.:30:00.

issue but the fact that somd local authorities are not spending their

:30:01.:30:04.

full allocation is evidence that the Government is fully resourcdd in

:30:05.:30:12.

this matter? Thank you. Not only is the ?870 million proving to be the

:30:13.:30:15.

right amount of money for local authorities but awareness is

:30:16.:30:20.

increasing. It is simply astonishing that the Government is still not

:30:21.:30:23.

listening and facing up to the reality of flaws in this policy In

:30:24.:30:28.

the same way that they blocked the Private Members' Bill in thd name of

:30:29.:30:36.

the former MP for St Ives. Can they not just of that bill and m`ke the

:30:37.:30:41.

changes are clearly need to be made to this policy? We're deterlined to

:30:42.:30:45.

protect those most vulnerable in society. We're getting fundhng to

:30:46.:30:52.

where it needs to be and we are entitled to do that. We havd had

:30:53.:30:58.

half an hour of nonanswers from this Minister when actually, we wanted

:30:59.:31:04.

his boss, the Secretary of State to come to this dispatch box to defend

:31:05.:31:08.

this disgusting and permisshons policy. Will he now answer the

:31:09.:31:15.

question set out by my honotrable friend, the member for Hull North,

:31:16.:31:19.

how much is this Government wasting of public money to defend the

:31:20.:31:26.

indefensible? That level of anger matched some of the families I met

:31:27.:31:29.

waiting on the waiting list that you wish to turn a blind eye to. Order!

:31:30.:31:44.

Hilary Benn. Thank you. Will the Secretary of State make a statement

:31:45.:31:46.

on arms sales to Saudi Arabha in light of the report of potential

:31:47.:31:51.

breaches of international humanitarian law in Yemen? @s the

:31:52.:32:01.

Prime Minister said yesterd`y, the Government takes its arms exports

:32:02.:32:08.

responsibilities seriously `nd operates one of the most

:32:09.:32:09.

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