Browse content similar to 12/04/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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which of course provides and jobs. Demand has exceeded supply. We must | :00:00. | :00:13. | |
now move on. A point of order, shall . I have made the Minister aware of | :00:14. | :00:17. | |
my intention to make this point of order. In an answer to my written | :00:18. | :00:22. | |
parliamentary question asking for the number of deaths that have | :00:23. | :00:25. | |
occurred in child and adolescent mental health units since 2010, the | :00:26. | :00:30. | |
Minister for community and social care said that there had been only | :00:31. | :00:35. | |
one such death recorded by the Sea QC. However freedom of information | :00:36. | :00:40. | |
requests have found that at least nine young people have tragically | :00:41. | :00:42. | |
died in England while receiving inpatient care. The minister said in | :00:43. | :00:53. | |
an interview with panorama that he did not know how many children and | :00:54. | :00:58. | |
adolescents had died in psychiatric units in recent years. This | :00:59. | :01:00. | |
discrepancy between the government account and the data collected by | :01:01. | :01:06. | |
freedom of information requests raises serious questions about how | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
deaths in psychiatric care of some of the most vulnerable people are | :01:11. | :01:13. | |
treated, recorded, investigated, and learned from. Can I be advised as to | :01:14. | :01:19. | |
whether there is any indication from ministers that they intend to | :01:20. | :01:23. | |
clarify for the parliamentary record an accurate figure for the number of | :01:24. | :01:26. | |
children who have tragic it did in all psychiatric inpatient setting | :01:27. | :01:33. | |
since 2010? Important questions are raised by | :01:34. | :01:39. | |
this matter, though not for me. We cannot have Question Time on the | :01:40. | :01:42. | |
basis of doing it through points of order. Seeing as the Minister of | :01:43. | :01:47. | |
State is here and is apparently willing to say some words, you will | :01:48. | :01:52. | |
be happy to hear from him. I am very grateful. I appreciate the | :01:53. | :01:58. | |
honourable member giving me notice of this. There were very serious | :01:59. | :02:04. | |
questions raised by panorama last night. I have agreed to meet the | :02:05. | :02:12. | |
lady who put in the Freedom of information request, there is a | :02:13. | :02:14. | |
discrepancy and there are difficulties in definition, but the | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
present situation is not acceptable. I will look to find as quickly as | :02:19. | :02:21. | |
possible a way of correcting the record as soon as we know the | :02:22. | :02:25. | |
figures and make sure that we have sorted this data problem out | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
effectively for the future. I am grateful to the Minister for | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
his courtesy and honour. On a personal note can I wish him very | :02:36. | :02:39. | |
well on that important meeting with Bracco? She is a formidable | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
character. We knew each other in university. Very formidable, I wish | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
him well. We have just had questions from the | :02:49. | :02:56. | |
Secretary of State and we had an excellent team of ministers but we | :02:57. | :03:00. | |
did not have the Secretary of State. The Minister for Europe made the | :03:01. | :03:04. | |
point that the Secretary of State is on the last leg went overseas visit. | :03:05. | :03:07. | |
I thought was the Convention of this House that Parliament came first. | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
And that the Secretary of State should be here and there is an | :03:13. | :03:16. | |
emergency took him away from the House. Clearly, this was planned, | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
and can you give any guidance to the House on whether the Secretary of | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
State should be on overseas trip when there are scheduled questions | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
the Department? I will take Peter, then respond. | :03:29. | :03:34. | |
Things may have changed since I paid attention because it is 25 years | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
since I was a minister but in my day a minister for the government spoke | :03:39. | :03:42. | |
with the same authority, no matter what rank. | :03:43. | :03:48. | |
Certainly the team communicate to the House as a team. That is | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
undeniable. It is not within the power of the chair, the Secretary of | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
State did courteously write to me to notify me that he would be absent, | :03:58. | :04:04. | |
my sense is that he is not likely to be absent and anything irregular | :04:05. | :04:07. | |
basis. If that were to happen it would be strongly deprecated not | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
just by the chair but by members across the House. Let's hope it does | :04:13. | :04:18. | |
not happen again. If there are no further points of order perhaps we | :04:19. | :04:21. | |
can move onto the ten rule motion. I like to move that leave be given | :04:22. | :04:27. | |
for me to bring an appeal to make it an offence to be found in possession | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
of or to use certain articles or substances capable of causing injury | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
or behaviour likely to lead to injury, at, or in transit towards, | :04:36. | :04:41. | |
certain events, concerts, festivals, other public gatherings, and for | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
connected purposes. In plain English this bill proposes to prevent | :04:47. | :04:52. | |
audience members at concerts and festivals from using dangerous | :04:53. | :04:55. | |
pyrotechnics such as flares, fireworks, and smoke bombs. Items | :04:56. | :05:03. | |
like this cannot be safely used in the confines of a live music | :05:04. | :05:09. | |
audience. Players can burn at up to 1600 Celsius, fireworks, even | :05:10. | :05:16. | |
hotter, up to 2000 Celsius. Not to mention the danger from a | :05:17. | :05:23. | |
projectile, and smoke bombs pose a risk to members with asthma or other | :05:24. | :05:27. | |
such breathing difficulties. The surprise throwing off pyrotechnics | :05:28. | :05:32. | |
from within a crowd can also create dangerous and distressing crowd | :05:33. | :05:38. | |
disturbances. In 2014 of were 255 incidents involving flares at live | :05:39. | :05:44. | |
music events. Both indoor and outdoor, ranging from festivals such | :05:45. | :05:50. | |
as T in the Park, two popular city venues like extreme Academy. -- like | :05:51. | :06:03. | |
Brixton Academy. I enjoy live music but nobody should be seriously | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
burned as part of a fun afternoon. Nobody wants to see a panic at the | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
disco or any such music event, we want to see the number of these ends | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
is is down to an all-time low digs and festivals are particularly | :06:18. | :06:23. | |
popular among young people. They and their parents have a right to feel | :06:24. | :06:25. | |
safe in attending or sending their children there. Unfortunately this | :06:26. | :06:30. | |
was not the experience of an 18-year-old girl who attended an | :06:31. | :06:34. | |
Arctic monkeys concert and required three dressings to burns on her arms | :06:35. | :06:40. | |
from a flair that have been thrown. Or a 17-year-old at Reading Festival | :06:41. | :06:44. | |
who suffered a panic attack of that been burned by a smoke bomb. When I | :06:45. | :06:50. | |
mentioned the subject of this hill to others many people outside the | :06:51. | :06:57. | |
music industry was surprised that audience use pyrotechnics is not | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
already banned. Their surprise is understandable given that such | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
protection has long been afforded to football supporters by the sporting | :07:07. | :07:13. | |
events act 1985. This made it an offence to attempt to enter a | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
stadium whilst in possession of a flair, a smoke bomb, or a firework. | :07:18. | :07:23. | |
The courts have taken such public endangerment very seriously and even | :07:24. | :07:26. | |
those without previous criminal records have been given custodial | :07:27. | :07:29. | |
sentences of one or two months and banned from foot or grounds for up | :07:30. | :07:35. | |
to six years. The numbers bear this out as an effective approach. Both | :07:36. | :07:40. | |
legislatively and judicially. In contrast to the 255 incidents in | :07:41. | :07:47. | |
2014 at music events there were just three incidents at football grounds. | :07:48. | :07:53. | |
In my capacity as chairman of the APG for music I find broad support | :07:54. | :07:55. | |
for this bill throughout the industry. Live nation, one of the | :07:56. | :08:02. | |
largest concert organisers and ticket riders in the UK has been | :08:03. | :08:06. | |
campaigning on this subject for a significant time. As yet, without | :08:07. | :08:11. | |
success. I would like to see that change sooner rather than later. | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
Because these injuries and incidents are absolutely avoidable with the | :08:17. | :08:21. | |
right support. The Association of Independent festivals, representing | :08:22. | :08:24. | |
many popular events including the secret Garden party, the Isle of | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
Wight Festival, ask for the laws support. I quote, it is the | :08:30. | :08:35. | |
responsibility of organisers to provide a safe and enjoyable | :08:36. | :08:38. | |
environment and the government should support this objective by | :08:39. | :08:41. | |
creating a level playing field between music and sports fans. So | :08:42. | :08:49. | |
concert organisers have every reason to want to protect concertgoers, but | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
unfortunately with their power was limited to basically expelling | :08:54. | :08:57. | |
someone from a venue, they feel toothless when it comes to deterring | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
this kind of behaviour. Despite a behaviour to do exactly that. | :09:02. | :09:09. | |
The current situation is as follows. On the ratings are banned from | :09:10. | :09:23. | |
carrying fireworks in public places. However, an overwhelming majority of | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
concerts and festivals occur on private property. There is no such | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
regulation for flares because they are not intended for entertainment | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
use at all. There is no offence for adults carrying fireworks or smoke | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
bombs unless it can be proven that this is being done with intent to | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
cause injury. Contact injuries from these articles are usually a case of | :09:46. | :09:52. | |
boneheaded this regard for others rather than malice. It amounts to no | :09:53. | :10:05. | |
rules or protection for those using pyrotechnics at music events. When | :10:06. | :10:13. | |
an industry welcomes a law as an in central -- an essential protection, | :10:14. | :10:20. | |
then surely Parliament must act and we would not be doing our duty if we | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
ignored it. My right honourable friend, the Minister confirmed in a | :10:25. | :10:33. | |
letter in March 2015 that in his view, this matter was requiring | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
proper examination of how best to determine the misuse of these | :10:39. | :10:43. | |
devices. I share this view but little progress has been made. I | :10:44. | :10:53. | |
believe proper examination leads to the conclusion that a ban covering | :10:54. | :10:59. | |
music events will be the best step open to us and those proposing the | :11:00. | :11:08. | |
bill, I believe the time has come to take that forward. I am not by | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
instinct someone who likes to ban things. I think, by and large, | :11:13. | :11:18. | |
people should have the right to choose to take risks themselves. | :11:19. | :11:30. | |
However, audience members have not chosen to be exposed to the dangers | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
of flares and fireworks deployed in improper conditions and possibly by | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
those who have no idea and are in no fit mind to use them. They have come | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
to enjoy live music and these endangered them. To be clear, my | :11:44. | :11:56. | |
bill would only apply to audience members and spectators. There has | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
been a misleading report that venues and artists would not be able to use | :12:01. | :12:06. | |
them. Stage setups would be the same as they currently are. I don't want | :12:07. | :12:12. | |
to curtail the ability of trained professionals to put on a vibrant | :12:13. | :12:20. | |
and striking show. I have enjoyed many a show and these can be part of | :12:21. | :12:33. | |
a spectacle. I'm not sure if you are a fan of the Kings of Leon but I | :12:34. | :12:40. | |
think you should ensure that nothing should ever be on fire. There is | :12:41. | :12:49. | |
support from fans, professionals and colleagues in the house. This is a | :12:50. | :13:01. | |
problem and there is a consensus. I am grateful to bring this issue | :13:02. | :13:10. | |
before the house. The question is that the honourable member have | :13:11. | :13:17. | |
leave to bring in the bill. The eyes have it. Who will bring in the bill? | :13:18. | :13:26. | |
David Warburton, Steve Rotherham, Mark Pritchard, Pete Wishart, Craig | :13:27. | :13:33. | |
Williams, Kevin Foster, Nigel Huddleston and myself, Sir. | :13:34. | :13:46. | |
Second reading what they? Friday 22nd of April. | :13:47. | :14:25. | |
We come now to the standing order, number 24 bill. I call Angela Eagle. | :14:26. | :14:40. | |
Thank you, Mr Speaker. Can I place on record my thanks to you for | :14:41. | :14:48. | |
granting this debate today. Such debates are rare but the situation | :14:49. | :14:55. | |
facing the steel industry cannot be categorised as anything other than | :14:56. | :15:00. | |
an emergency. Today's debate provides an opportunity for the | :15:01. | :15:02. | |
Secretary of State to come to this post with a comprehensive solution | :15:03. | :15:09. | |
for the steel industry, an industry hanging by the thinnest of threads. | :15:10. | :15:17. | |
Anything less from him will be an abdication of his duty. I hope he | :15:18. | :15:23. | |
will take the opportunity to explain to us in more detail exactly what he | :15:24. | :15:33. | |
meant. Call it what you like, or investing, part nationalisation, | :15:34. | :15:36. | |
temporary public stewardship or sheltering the assets. It is clear | :15:37. | :15:41. | |
that circumstances might require the government to do this. They should | :15:42. | :15:46. | |
spare their ideological blushes and get on with it. It is important the | :15:47. | :15:54. | |
Business Secretary hears from those who represent steel-making | :15:55. | :15:57. | |
communities. They have great expertise and knowledge which I hope | :15:58. | :16:02. | |
will inform the response to this crisis. Up until now this is a | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
government and Secretary of State that have been found wanting. They | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
have been behind rather than ahead of events. Their response to the | :16:11. | :16:16. | |
biggest crisis in steel-making in a generation has been warm words but | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
little effective action. There has been an ideological driven | :16:22. | :16:25. | |
reluctance to get involved as the crisis has deepened. It has been a | :16:26. | :16:29. | |
mixture of indifference and incompetence. Can I just say I am | :16:30. | :16:37. | |
not going to give way as generously as I normally do because this is a | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
three-hour debate and I think it is really important those members from | :16:42. | :16:46. | |
steel-making communities get their chance to have their say. | :16:47. | :16:52. | |
The First Minister of Wales has called for all parties to come | :16:53. | :16:57. | |
together to work towards a future rather than political point scoring. | :16:58. | :17:04. | |
The Right Honourable lady is very passionate on this issue as we are | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
on the side of the house. It is vital we have this. Can she ensure | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
the house but she and her colleagues are approaching it in that combined | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
political approach between the parties to secure that future? We | :17:17. | :17:29. | |
will judge this government by actions and achievements rather than | :17:30. | :17:35. | |
words. The complete absence of a manufacturing or industrial strategy | :17:36. | :17:38. | |
has hampered this government's ability to think strategically about | :17:39. | :17:44. | |
what is needed. Never has it been more urgent that the Business | :17:45. | :17:47. | |
Secretary does so. On the 29th of March, Tata steel announced it would | :17:48. | :17:52. | |
sell steel-making operations in the UK and it is leaving the future of | :17:53. | :17:58. | |
steel-making hanging by a thread and putting jobs at imminent risk. I ask | :17:59. | :18:09. | |
if the shadow secretary shares my concern that on the 29th of March we | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
knew about this, people going to Mumbai knew it was happening, yet | :18:15. | :18:21. | |
three years ago the Prime Minister reconvened this chamber within two | :18:22. | :18:28. | |
days to talk about the death of Margaret Thatcher. I think it is | :18:29. | :18:33. | |
regrettable that there was not a recall of Parliament but we are | :18:34. | :18:37. | |
where we are and we've got this debate thanks to you. It is | :18:38. | :18:43. | |
imperative to underline the fundamental importance of this | :18:44. | :18:46. | |
industry for our economy and for the country. Steel is a foundation | :18:47. | :18:53. | |
industry. Whilst it might make up 1% of total manufacturing output that | :18:54. | :19:01. | |
is crucial. The world leading industries, real construction, all | :19:02. | :19:05. | |
depend on a strong and sustainable domestic steel industry. The | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
manufacturing sector already faces tough times. The ONS figures show a | :19:10. | :19:20. | |
different picture. Manufacturing output remained frozen at the level | :19:21. | :19:30. | |
of five years ago. It is still 6.4% down. In his budget speech the | :19:31. | :19:39. | |
Chancellor spoke of his vision of Britain carried aloft by the makers | :19:40. | :19:49. | |
but he has not reflected this. The manufacturing sector has shrunk. It | :19:50. | :19:57. | |
has failed to materialise. In this context the challenges facing the | :19:58. | :20:02. | |
steel industry represent annexes dental crisis for the manufacturing | :20:03. | :20:06. | |
sector in the UK. I don't believe we can allow it to shrink further. I'm | :20:07. | :20:14. | |
glad the government has realised this. We need action. The crisis in | :20:15. | :20:23. | |
the steel industry matters for the wider economy as well. Much has been | :20:24. | :20:27. | |
said about the cost of supporting the steel industry but far too | :20:28. | :20:35. | |
little about the cost of it being destroyed. The collapse would lead | :20:36. | :20:41. | |
to additional cost to the government of ?4.6 billion. It would take | :20:42. | :20:49. | |
demand out of the economy, reducing household spending by ?3 billion. | :20:50. | :20:59. | |
There would be secondary shocks up and down the country. Tata steel is | :21:00. | :21:04. | |
the biggest business rates appear in rather with an annual bill of ?3.2 | :21:05. | :21:12. | |
million. The loss of this revenue to the local authority is equivalent to | :21:13. | :21:26. | |
a 1.8% increase in council tax the. Does my right honourable friend | :21:27. | :21:29. | |
agree that the way forward was shown by the Labour government when it | :21:30. | :21:35. | |
introduced a car scrap scheme to support the automotive industry. | :21:36. | :21:51. | |
This sector was preserved and it now prospers. My honourable friend is | :21:52. | :22:01. | |
absolutely right and I hope the Secretary of State is taking note. | :22:02. | :22:12. | |
The trade deficit is now the worst since 1948. The loss of steel and | :22:13. | :22:29. | |
current exports in steel would make this clearly sustainable deficit | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
even worse. Beyond this cost there would be an intolerable social cost. | :22:35. | :22:43. | |
15,000 jobs are at stake and a further 25,000 at stake in the wider | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
supply chain. These are the kind of jobs we need to see more of. The end | :22:49. | :22:54. | |
of steel-making in the UK would be devastating for a 40,000 workers and | :22:55. | :23:00. | |
the communities. Some have highlighted the cost of intervening | :23:01. | :23:06. | |
but I believe the cost of letting steel feel is far greater. I don't | :23:07. | :23:16. | |
mean to pre-empt what she says but could she confirmed to the house, is | :23:17. | :23:21. | |
it the policy of Her Majesty's opposition that the steel industry | :23:22. | :23:24. | |
should be nationalised and remain in public hands for as long as | :23:25. | :23:27. | |
necessary? is what is necessary to preserve | :23:28. | :23:42. | |
restructure and insure the survival of our steel industry for the | :23:43. | :23:47. | |
future. And that is the job of government. We will be as supportive | :23:48. | :23:52. | |
as we can and I will set out some parameters a bit later on in my | :23:53. | :23:56. | |
speech but really, this is about the government getting it act in order. | :23:57. | :24:01. | |
We are holding the government to account for their actions rather | :24:02. | :24:04. | |
than just their words, that is what this debate is about. | :24:05. | :24:13. | |
On that point, we heard nothing yesterday from the Secretary of | :24:14. | :24:18. | |
State about what action the government is going to take on | :24:19. | :24:24. | |
energy costs and business rates, which are burdening the industry, | :24:25. | :24:27. | |
and government could act, yet we have had no sign the government will | :24:28. | :24:32. | |
change policy in these vital areas. We will have the chance to hear | :24:33. | :24:36. | |
about some concrete action from the government during the course of this | :24:37. | :24:40. | |
debate. I was talking about the cost of letting the industry fail, for | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
the community, the cost to the economy is high, but the cost to the | :24:46. | :24:50. | |
workers and their communities with a higher. So we welcome the recent | :24:51. | :24:54. | |
commitment from the Business Secretary to do everything they can | :24:55. | :24:57. | |
to protect steel-making and processing in the UK. But this | :24:58. | :25:05. | |
Business Secretary has form. Warm words are all very well but they are | :25:06. | :25:09. | |
worth as if they are not. I'm meaningful action as the Redcar | :25:10. | :25:15. | |
community now to their cost. -- if they are not backed up by meaningful | :25:16. | :25:19. | |
action. We are in no doubt that there are huge challenges facing the | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
industry but we also believe the steel industry in the UK can have a | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
strong, sustainable future. The decisions made by this government | :25:29. | :25:31. | |
will ultimately determine whether it does. That is why I welcome the | :25:32. | :25:37. | |
commitment of the Business Secretary appeared to make during the | :25:38. | :25:41. | |
statement yesterday, to what he called co-investment. Perhaps he | :25:42. | :25:46. | |
will tell us if he is considering co-investment to save the blast | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
furnaces at Port Talbot? Because we did not get out and said to this | :25:51. | :25:56. | |
yesterday. Can the Business Secretary confirm here and now that | :25:57. | :26:01. | |
he will avoid a fire sale of these assets and make sure that | :26:02. | :26:03. | |
irreversible mistakes are not made in the way in which they are sold? | :26:04. | :26:14. | |
Tata, is a responsible seller, must only consider offers which maintain | :26:15. | :26:21. | |
both upstream and downstream assets. The government must also ensure that | :26:22. | :26:29. | |
enough time is made available for the appropriate considerations of | :26:30. | :26:35. | |
responsible offers. It took nine months for the Scunthorpe deal to be | :26:36. | :26:41. | |
developed. And yet Tata have indicated they wish to exit the UK | :26:42. | :26:46. | |
within four months. What is being done to reassure the easiest in | :26:47. | :26:49. | |
customer base that their current and future contracts will be fulfilled | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
during this period of uncertainty? These plants cannot be saved if the | :26:55. | :27:01. | |
order book disappears. There are a number of areas where the government | :27:02. | :27:05. | |
can make, I believe, a positive difference. The most significant | :27:06. | :27:08. | |
cause of the crisis facing the industry is the one thing of huge | :27:09. | :27:11. | |
amounts of cheap Chinese steel on the market. -- and dumping. Chinese | :27:12. | :27:23. | |
state owned firms are making huge losses yet continued to pour out | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
product. The UK simply cannot compete with state subsidised unfair | :27:29. | :27:31. | |
trade which is threatening to destroy the European industry as | :27:32. | :27:35. | |
well as ours. We are not calling for protectionism but we are standing up | :27:36. | :27:41. | |
for fair trade and calling for quick, with tariffs, which help | :27:42. | :27:45. | |
level the playing field. The Business Secretary must abandon his | :27:46. | :27:48. | |
opposition to the abolition of the lesser duty rule and block unfair | :27:49. | :27:54. | |
Chinese imports. Correcting market economy status to China must not be | :27:55. | :28:08. | |
automatic -- granting. The Chinese may only one in five of the criteria | :28:09. | :28:11. | |
yet the UK support the granting of that status as early as the share. | :28:12. | :28:26. | |
Potential buyers of the Tata operation need the surest sign that | :28:27. | :28:31. | |
the government is ready to act. To ensure that UK steel producers can | :28:32. | :28:37. | |
benefit from large public sector contracts. The Ministry of Defence | :28:38. | :28:43. | |
will spend ?178 billion on defence equipment over the next ten years | :28:44. | :28:46. | |
yet the Coalition Government scrapped the Labour's defence | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
industry strategy which made British jobs and industry the first priority | :28:52. | :28:54. | |
in all decisions on Ministry of Defence contract. We now have the | :28:55. | :29:00. | |
deeply regrettable situation of an aircraft carrier, surface ships, and | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
armoured vehicles, all being manufactured in the UK with mainly | :29:05. | :29:10. | |
imported steel. With more planning our domestic industry could have | :29:11. | :29:16. | |
supplied these needs. The government must also take action on | :29:17. | :29:18. | |
infrastructure investment, despite all the government we are about | :29:19. | :29:24. | |
this, in reality public sector net investment in the UK will be lower | :29:25. | :29:29. | |
as a percentage of GDP at the end of this parliament than at the start, | :29:30. | :29:34. | |
half of what it was under the last Labour government. The project | :29:35. | :29:38. | |
announced in the government infrastructure pipeline, just one in | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
are under way. For the sake of our steel industry, and for the sake of | :29:43. | :29:46. | |
the wider economy, on the government to bring forward rejects that | :29:47. | :29:51. | |
require a significant amount of steel -- projects, and make sure | :29:52. | :29:58. | |
that changes in the rules which the government keep posting about, | :29:59. | :30:07. | |
actually make a difference. -- boasting. | :30:08. | :30:12. | |
Yesterday I received a letter from the Prime Minister praising and | :30:13. | :30:15. | |
infrastructure investment in the railway between Wrexham and Chester. | :30:16. | :30:21. | |
Unfortunately this is being funded by the Labour Welsh Government. It | :30:22. | :30:23. | |
appears to be the only example that the Prime Minister could forward | :30:24. | :30:32. | |
investing in rail in North Wales. It is a very telling point and I | :30:33. | :30:35. | |
hope the government will connect these things in its procurement | :30:36. | :30:44. | |
efforts. So that we can make a real difference to the potential customer | :30:45. | :30:46. | |
base for UK steel at this very difficult time. | :30:47. | :30:56. | |
Does my honourable friend share my concern that certain major | :30:57. | :31:01. | |
procurement project, like high speed two, like nuclear, are being given | :31:02. | :31:05. | |
to China? My fear is they will actually want to use Chinese steel. | :31:06. | :31:10. | |
Let alone the case that were these British companies they would pay | :31:11. | :31:13. | |
corporation tax, national insurance, income tax, which developed the | :31:14. | :31:18. | |
supply chain and export capacity. This she share I fear that there is | :31:19. | :31:23. | |
no proper joint industrial strategy to protect jobs and futures? | :31:24. | :31:31. | |
I do agree. It is hard to avoid, when we see the Chancellor | :31:32. | :31:34. | |
travelling around China, asking them to bid for all of these contracts, | :31:35. | :31:40. | |
we see what sexually happening. Business rates represent a higher | :31:41. | :31:48. | |
cost for UK stupid users. -- what is actually happening. The Chancellor | :31:49. | :31:57. | |
reportedly even costed the changes with a view to including it in the | :31:58. | :32:06. | |
near infamous budget, before being dropped at the last minute. The | :32:07. | :32:10. | |
measure that would actually improve prospects for the industry was | :32:11. | :32:16. | |
sacrificed for an economically illiterate and increasingly | :32:17. | :32:18. | |
unachievable surplus target. Part of the problem is ideology. Labour have | :32:19. | :32:24. | |
been calling for a modern, intelligent industrial strategy. In | :32:25. | :32:31. | |
yesterday's statement of the Business Secretary actually uttered | :32:32. | :32:36. | |
the words, strategy, for the first time. -- the words, business | :32:37. | :32:45. | |
strategy. Now that this Rubicon has been crossed all we now need is | :32:46. | :32:55. | |
action to match the words. Today we spare a thought for the thousands of | :32:56. | :32:58. | |
steel workers whose futures hang in the balance. The government ignored | :32:59. | :33:04. | |
the warning signs for too long but now must act. They must act to find | :33:05. | :33:11. | |
a suitable buyer. To work with the steel producers, the workforce, the | :33:12. | :33:16. | |
clients, the customers, to place the industry on an even keel. The costs | :33:17. | :33:22. | |
of failure both economically and socially are unthinkable. We need | :33:23. | :33:23. | |
urgent action to save our steel. Order. The question is, that this | :33:24. | :33:38. | |
House has considered Tata's decision to sell their UK steel operations, | :33:39. | :33:43. | |
and the action that the government is taken to secure the future of the | :33:44. | :33:48. | |
steel industry. The Secretary of State. | :33:49. | :33:54. | |
Thank you, Mr Speaker. The whole House will be deeply concerned by | :33:55. | :33:57. | |
the crisis affecting the global steel industry over the last year. | :33:58. | :34:03. | |
The fact are familiar but they're repeating. Around the world | :34:04. | :34:08. | |
steel-making capacity is 35% higher than the mind. In China alone the | :34:09. | :34:14. | |
excess capacity is 25 times the UK's entire annual production. The man | :34:15. | :34:19. | |
has slumped in China as the economy grows and demand here in Europe has | :34:20. | :34:23. | |
yet to return to the crash levels. This surge in supply has inevitably | :34:24. | :34:32. | |
led to a large fall in prices. The knock-on effect for steelworkers | :34:33. | :34:35. | |
around the world has been devastating. In the UK we have sadly | :34:36. | :34:44. | |
seen the closure of plants in Redcar after the parent company ran up | :34:45. | :34:48. | |
unsustainable losses. Across Europe, 70,000 workers have been laid off | :34:49. | :34:54. | |
since 2008. And last week we heard that US steel, the biggest in the | :34:55. | :35:00. | |
United States, was laying off a quarter of its nonunion workforce, | :35:01. | :35:05. | |
and earlier this month the owner of one of the two heavy steel mills | :35:06. | :35:10. | |
left in Australia entered voluntary administration. This is of course | :35:11. | :35:16. | |
more than just numbers. It is a human tragedy. When we talk about | :35:17. | :35:20. | |
job losses in the abstract it is easy to forget that each of them | :35:21. | :35:24. | |
represents a person. A hard-working, highly skilled person. Many of them | :35:25. | :35:31. | |
will have husbands, wives, children, other dependents, to support, all | :35:32. | :35:35. | |
will have local business relying on their custom, and that pattern will | :35:36. | :35:39. | |
be repeated throughout the supply chain. That is why, where job losses | :35:40. | :35:45. | |
have happened in Britain, we have done everything we can to support | :35:46. | :35:49. | |
communities affected. I will give way. | :35:50. | :35:55. | |
I thank the honourable gentleman. He said, we must not forget. I can | :35:56. | :35:58. | |
pursue the honourable gentleman people in this House or not forget. | :35:59. | :36:04. | |
I am one of the people you're government did this to 30 years ago | :36:05. | :36:08. | |
when you closed the coal mines. You didn't care then, didn't care about | :36:09. | :36:13. | |
the social cost that has destroyed areas like mine, and you need to | :36:14. | :36:16. | |
bear that in mind going forward in this debate. | :36:17. | :36:24. | |
Mr Speaker, I am sure the honourable gentleman agrees with me, where the | :36:25. | :36:29. | |
government can help where there are job losses, of course, it must do | :36:30. | :36:35. | |
so. I will give away in a moment. Let me speak about Redcar. I know | :36:36. | :36:39. | |
that the honourable gentleman is interested in that as well. We have | :36:40. | :36:44. | |
committed up to ?80 million to help people affected by the Redcar | :36:45. | :36:50. | |
closure. More than ?16 million to help local firms employ former | :36:51. | :36:54. | |
workers. Another ?16 million in supporting companies in the I supply | :36:55. | :37:03. | |
chain in the wider region. -- the SSI supply chain. There was a ?1.7 | :37:04. | :37:11. | |
million package to help former SSI apprentices remain in employment or | :37:12. | :37:16. | |
training. I give way. When he says this government will do | :37:17. | :37:20. | |
everything for communities affected, and the date of the liquidation at | :37:21. | :37:25. | |
Redcar, he announced an ?80 million total package, oh, it is ?90 million | :37:26. | :37:33. | |
now! We have seen prior, at the dispatch box... | :37:34. | :37:40. | |
Order, order. Junior minister, we don't need you shouting from a | :37:41. | :37:46. | |
sedentary position. Be quiet! It is not required. I have told you so | :37:47. | :37:55. | |
many times. Try to get the message! We saw at the dispatch box not long | :37:56. | :37:58. | |
ago the Secretary of State changed the figure to ?50 million. The money | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
on top was only gained because a trade union went to a tribunal to | :38:04. | :38:06. | |
guarantee the workforce court what they were entitled to. The governor | :38:07. | :38:10. | |
could have fast-track that seven months ago! -- government. | :38:11. | :38:19. | |
I thought the honourable gentleman said, up to ?90 million. What we | :38:20. | :38:23. | |
have always said, and it has not changed, is achingly in pounds. To | :38:24. | :38:28. | |
be clear. I agree there is a long way to go. -- has not changed, is | :38:29. | :38:41. | |
?80 million. More than 2000 workers from SSI, only a quarter of them are | :38:42. | :38:44. | |
claiming jobseeker's allowance at the end of debris. I will give way. | :38:45. | :38:52. | |
The 600 job figure is those who are in work or training. Not just work. | :38:53. | :38:57. | |
That is important, because it is work that will be vital at the end | :38:58. | :38:58. | |
of the training. The honourable lady makes a very | :38:59. | :39:10. | |
important point. Retraining can lead to work so it is important to invest | :39:11. | :39:17. | |
in that. But I do know that I need to, for the people of Redcar, this | :39:18. | :39:25. | |
feels like a drop in the ocean. When a community is built around a single | :39:26. | :39:28. | |
industry the death of that industry takes away more than just jobs. This | :39:29. | :39:38. | |
government has been taking real action to support the industry. He | :39:39. | :39:47. | |
begin to appreciate how this clause intercommunity? I attended a medical | :39:48. | :39:50. | |
centre on Teesside who lost nurses because they had given up their | :39:51. | :39:54. | |
bursary of funded training programmes because their husbands | :39:55. | :39:58. | |
had lost their jobs. The ripples for this go right out. It is up to 9000 | :39:59. | :40:06. | |
people losing jobs and he should understand that very clearly. The | :40:07. | :40:12. | |
honourable gentleman is absolutely right. It is devastating way beyond | :40:13. | :40:20. | |
the community and that is why we must do everything together to | :40:21. | :40:27. | |
prevent that happening. We must support the supply chain because as | :40:28. | :40:30. | |
the honourable gentleman highlights it has a ripple effect throughout | :40:31. | :40:40. | |
the community. I work very hard with members across the house to secure | :40:41. | :40:49. | |
pensions from Ford. Even Tata steel have almost fully made up their | :40:50. | :40:53. | |
pension fund, will the government socialised that fund so that | :40:54. | :41:08. | |
pensions are secure? I will move on in just a moment. He rightly | :41:09. | :41:12. | |
identifies pensions as an issue and we are looking at all possible | :41:13. | :41:20. | |
solutions. I want to take a moment on the action we've already taken | :41:21. | :41:24. | |
action with. ?76 million has already been paid and we expect to pay over | :41:25. | :41:32. | |
?100 million this financial year alone. In the Autumn Statement we | :41:33. | :41:40. | |
announced that we will go farther. Energy intensive industries will be | :41:41. | :41:44. | |
exempted from renewable policy cost and it will save the steel industry | :41:45. | :41:49. | |
over ?400 million by the end of this Parliament. Surely the honourable | :41:50. | :41:55. | |
gentleman would agree that rather than compensating businesses for | :41:56. | :41:59. | |
attacks we've levied it would be more logical to scrap the tax? My | :42:00. | :42:10. | |
honourable friend will agree that our move to go to exemption rather | :42:11. | :42:15. | |
than compensation is exactly what my honourable friend would like to see. | :42:16. | :42:22. | |
Would he accept that the support this government is having is only a | :42:23. | :42:29. | |
fraction of what Germany and other countries are giving to their steel | :42:30. | :42:32. | |
industries, it would still leave the steel industry with much higher | :42:33. | :42:39. | |
energy costs. Isn't it better to consider going farther to help the | :42:40. | :42:45. | |
steel industry? I think the honourable gentleman does underplay | :42:46. | :42:50. | |
the help this provides the industry. If you speak to the manufacturers, | :42:51. | :42:59. | |
they see this as a game changer. Where I can agree with him, I think | :43:00. | :43:03. | |
there is more to look at in this area, particularly with regards to | :43:04. | :43:17. | |
securing a buyer. In a meeting with industrial communities which | :43:18. | :43:20. | |
represent industrial areas in the UK the EU commission reiterated their | :43:21. | :43:24. | |
commitment to change the trade defence instruments which would | :43:25. | :43:31. | |
tackle the cheap steel issue. Will they make these changes? I will come | :43:32. | :43:41. | |
onto that in a moment but let first talk about the delivery of | :43:42. | :43:55. | |
flexibility. We've taken action on procurement, becoming the first | :43:56. | :44:00. | |
country anywhere in Europe to take on EU rules which make it easier for | :44:01. | :44:06. | |
the public to buy British. That is on top of our proud record of | :44:07. | :44:17. | |
British Steel. He has the Minister for procurement next to him. He'd | :44:18. | :44:25. | |
said the UK did not have full records of where they have got steel | :44:26. | :44:29. | |
from. How can we be sure of this when departments are not even | :44:30. | :44:33. | |
keeping records and defence projects are being made in other countries? I | :44:34. | :44:40. | |
think he may hear more about that from the Minister for procurement in | :44:41. | :44:46. | |
the coming days but when it does come to procurement, first of all | :44:47. | :44:52. | |
with defence itself as an example, the new aircraft carriers are being | :44:53. | :44:57. | |
built with 100,000 tonnes of British Steel. Crossrail, the biggest | :44:58. | :45:07. | |
construction project in Europe, users British Steel almost | :45:08. | :45:11. | |
exclusively. 96% of Network Rail spending goes to them. 1500 miles of | :45:12. | :45:22. | |
it. Enough to build a two track line from London to Edinburgh. I believe | :45:23. | :45:31. | |
the procurement of Network Rail is a case study in how to do procurement. | :45:32. | :45:43. | |
But if you look at energy, we need to make sure it uses UK steel. What | :45:44. | :45:50. | |
progress is he making with his colleagues to ensure that turns out | :45:51. | :45:57. | |
to be the case? We've had meetings with that particular company and | :45:58. | :46:01. | |
many others in a similar situation. Many of them are private companies, | :46:02. | :46:09. | |
not subject to the rules around procurement, but there are ways to | :46:10. | :46:12. | |
try and encourage them to invest in British Steel and that is what is | :46:13. | :46:25. | |
happening. I will give the moment. The question was raised about | :46:26. | :46:34. | |
defence. We've been working hard at the issue of trade defence. I hear a | :46:35. | :46:42. | |
lot in this house about ideology. I'm just interested in one thing, | :46:43. | :46:47. | |
that is what actually works. We are the evidence shows that tariffs will | :46:48. | :46:53. | |
make a difference without harming reddish business, I will support | :46:54. | :46:57. | |
them. That is why last July the UK voted to impose a 16% tariff. Since | :46:58. | :47:07. | |
those duties were imposed on imports from China have fallen by as much as | :47:08. | :47:16. | |
90%. Since duties were imposed on imports from China were down 80%. In | :47:17. | :47:24. | |
January, we voted to impose an 11% tariff and since then imports of | :47:25. | :47:30. | |
that steel product have fallen by 99%. In February we voted for a 15% | :47:31. | :47:38. | |
tariff on flat products, which has already produced imports from China | :47:39. | :47:46. | |
-- reduced imports from China to almost nothing. This is real action | :47:47. | :47:54. | |
and they are making a difference. This is what the European steel | :47:55. | :48:00. | |
Association spokesperson said about this rule. The fact that the UK | :48:01. | :48:06. | |
continues to block it means when the government says it is doing | :48:07. | :48:11. | |
everything it can to save the steel industry, it is not. Isn't that the | :48:12. | :48:17. | |
truth? I will turn to that in a moment but I will give way to the | :48:18. | :48:21. | |
honourable lady if she still wants to. I hope you will answer the | :48:22. | :48:29. | |
question. On procurement, when it comes to energy, the government is | :48:30. | :48:36. | |
intervening in the energy market. Has the Secretary of State looked at | :48:37. | :48:43. | |
making sure when these often very generous contracts are negotiated | :48:44. | :48:46. | |
that buying British made steel is part of that contract as well? No | :48:47. | :48:53. | |
stone is unreturned in terms of making sure we sell as much British | :48:54. | :49:02. | |
Steel as possible. Turning to the point about the letter duty rule. | :49:03. | :49:11. | |
The opposition repeatedly raised this rule but they had no problem | :49:12. | :49:17. | |
with it for many years whilst they were in government. Scrapping the | :49:18. | :49:23. | |
rule altogether would cost dearly. It would mean raising prices on | :49:24. | :49:30. | |
everyday items that we rely on. On footwear, the rules save British | :49:31. | :49:39. | |
shoppers ?130 million. However, I am more than happy to look at ways of | :49:40. | :49:43. | |
specifically helping the steel industry and I hope during this | :49:44. | :49:47. | |
debate members will come up with ideas. I will be listening. | :49:48. | :50:02. | |
I referred to the interventional Labour Government took when the | :50:03. | :50:08. | |
government stepped up to the plate to support industry. Can I suggest | :50:09. | :50:17. | |
that the Secretary of State approached the automotive sectors | :50:18. | :50:27. | |
and ask them to engender, the way they can assist the UK steel | :50:28. | :50:35. | |
industry and step up to the plate at this time of great difficulty? We | :50:36. | :50:45. | |
have sector councils for both of those industries, we have that | :50:46. | :50:48. | |
regular dialogue and that is exactly the kind of thing they are focused | :50:49. | :51:01. | |
on and the work they are doing. I read a very interesting stat that | :51:02. | :51:05. | |
there has been a decline in the industries across the UK. Can I ask | :51:06. | :51:16. | |
the Secretary of State why he thinks the decline of these industries is | :51:17. | :51:21. | |
twice the level of other OECD countries? I don't know where the | :51:22. | :51:26. | |
honourable gentleman gets his numbers from but it brings me to a | :51:27. | :51:33. | |
useful point, where the Right Honourable Lady had said earlier, | :51:34. | :51:36. | |
but when I said manufacturing output is down, sorry, up since 2010, the | :51:37. | :51:42. | |
honourable lady suggested it was incorrect. I can tell her that | :51:43. | :51:47. | |
manufacturing output since 2010 is up 2.2% in real terms, 18.7% in | :51:48. | :51:54. | |
current prices. Those are the official numbers and manufacturing | :51:55. | :51:57. | |
and employment is up. If she wants to know about when manufacturing | :51:58. | :52:02. | |
output falls, that was during the last Labour government when it fell | :52:03. | :52:13. | |
from 18% of GPA to 10%. Steel companies are seriously concerned | :52:14. | :52:16. | |
that the market economy status granted to China will severely | :52:17. | :52:23. | |
jeopardise their ability to take Chinese or other companies to court | :52:24. | :52:28. | |
for dumping. What assessment has been made of that threat? Mr | :52:29. | :52:38. | |
Speaker, that will be a decision for the EU, but also, any country that | :52:39. | :52:44. | |
once market economy status, it is clear that they need to earn it. | :52:45. | :52:57. | |
Let's remember, you can still impose tariffs. Russia and the United | :52:58. | :53:00. | |
States is a good example. Does the Minister accept that many | :53:01. | :53:10. | |
on this side of the House believe it is for this House and this | :53:11. | :53:13. | |
government to decide whether a country like China is dumping? And | :53:14. | :53:20. | |
we should make the decision whether to improve tariffs. We think that if | :53:21. | :53:25. | |
we had been outside the EU months ago we would have approved tariffs | :53:26. | :53:32. | |
and solve the problem. I would tell my right honourable friend that we | :53:33. | :53:41. | |
have led the way in taking this action and it has resulted in the | :53:42. | :53:44. | |
right tariffs are helping the steel industry but at the same time | :53:45. | :53:48. | |
helping producers and consumers. My friend will agree with me that when | :53:49. | :53:52. | |
you do take action on tariffs you want to be sure that it is the | :53:53. | :53:55. | |
actual amount is a sorry to help the industry but not help consumers and | :53:56. | :54:00. | |
other producers. I will give way one more time. | :54:01. | :54:10. | |
He has mentioned the issue of the tariffs and increasing them in that | :54:11. | :54:15. | |
industry is obviously crucial, the exporters shunted up their tariffs | :54:16. | :54:19. | |
before they came in, so we may have seen a drop off because of that. So | :54:20. | :54:23. | |
does he still think the tariffs are high enough, or do they need to go | :54:24. | :54:27. | |
even higher to deal with the industry changes going on to other | :54:28. | :54:32. | |
factors? We should always be driven by the | :54:33. | :54:38. | |
evidence. The results so far of that tariffs are 99%, year on year, | :54:39. | :54:45. | |
suggesting it is effective, but we should always keep it under review | :54:46. | :54:51. | |
and make sure that it is effective. These, the | :54:52. | :54:51. | |
and will, yes. I am grateful. He has talked about | :54:52. | :54:59. | |
the government action on procurement, the response on | :55:00. | :55:05. | |
tariffs, and yesterday he talked about government co-investment. Any | :55:06. | :55:08. | |
users opportunity to please clarify, what does the government mean by | :55:09. | :55:14. | |
co-investment? My honourable friend will know that | :55:15. | :55:23. | |
it was in relation to the Tata decision to sell the business. What | :55:24. | :55:27. | |
I set out was to show that when the government says we will look at all | :55:28. | :55:31. | |
options to help create a long-term, viable business, with a commercial | :55:32. | :55:36. | |
operator, that it would be such an option. The key point is that any | :55:37. | :55:42. | |
co-investment have to be on commercial terms. It can take a | :55:43. | :55:48. | |
variety of forms. It can be set. It is a demonstration of all the | :55:49. | :55:51. | |
options the government is looking at. I will move on to that in a bit | :55:52. | :55:55. | |
moment when I have said a bit more about Tata, but that may finish on | :55:56. | :56:02. | |
the actions they can already on tariffs, energy cost, and | :56:03. | :56:07. | |
procurement. Not for now. Together, these send a powerful message to | :56:08. | :56:11. | |
investors around the world. It is that the British government is | :56:12. | :56:16. | |
standing up for UK steel. This commitment is not new. I have worked | :56:17. | :56:21. | |
with the steel industry since my first day as secretary, long before | :56:22. | :56:25. | |
this crisis made it onto the front pages. As I told the House | :56:26. | :56:31. | |
yesterday, Tata contacted me several weeks ago to warn that they were | :56:32. | :56:35. | |
planning to sell parts of their business, and that they planned | :56:36. | :56:39. | |
immediate closure of the Port Talbot site. Thanks to the groundwork laid | :56:40. | :56:44. | |
by my team and colleagues all over the past year we were able to secure | :56:45. | :56:51. | |
a reprieve whilst a buyer was found. I lead the government efforts to | :56:52. | :56:55. | |
help find that buyer and we will update the House on progress as soon | :56:56. | :57:00. | |
as we possibly can. When a buyer is found the government stands ready to | :57:01. | :57:06. | |
support them in any way that we can, to help get that deal done. We have | :57:07. | :57:10. | |
already set out some ways we can help, I do not get it prudent to go | :57:11. | :57:18. | |
into detail. -- do not think. But the goal is a commercial buyer with | :57:19. | :57:23. | |
government help in securing the transaction and getting a long-term, | :57:24. | :57:29. | |
viable future for the business. In terms of a broader view of | :57:30. | :57:36. | |
co-investment, the steel sector does not have catapults status. Will that | :57:37. | :57:42. | |
be looked at as a potential co-investment, if you like, for the | :57:43. | :57:46. | |
sector, particularly around sites such as MPI, so that we can have a | :57:47. | :57:52. | |
research and development link with our domestic steel industry? | :57:53. | :57:58. | |
He will know that catapults centres are a partnership between | :57:59. | :58:01. | |
government, businesses, and academia. If that can help the steel | :58:02. | :58:07. | |
sector come forward with a proposal, then I am more than happy to | :58:08. | :58:19. | |
research and look into that. There are hundreds of | :58:20. | :58:22. | |
apprenticeships in Port Talbot who whilst receiving on-the-job training | :58:23. | :58:30. | |
also attend college or university. If the steel-making facilities and | :58:31. | :58:36. | |
subsequent sponsorships are removed then this will deprive future | :58:37. | :58:40. | |
generations of potential, and for the UK being at the forefront of | :58:41. | :58:47. | |
development. What I can pursue the honourable | :58:48. | :58:50. | |
lady, who makes a very important point about the importance of skills | :58:51. | :58:54. | |
training, is that we are working already with the Welsh Government on | :58:55. | :59:01. | |
that. And I have already started discussions with the universities | :59:02. | :59:03. | |
minister, and the schools minister, to make sure the issue remains to | :59:04. | :59:10. | |
the front of the mind. Mr Speaker, I also want to talk about Tata, | :59:11. | :59:14. | |
yesterday we heard about their deal with Grable, along with the | :59:15. | :59:35. | |
liberty House acquisition Scotland and the West Midlands it is a vote | :59:36. | :59:38. | |
of confidence in the British steel industry. I have not been able to do | :59:39. | :59:42. | |
this work alone. I want to give praise to my right honourable | :59:43. | :59:47. | |
friend, the Minister for business, she has been absolutely tireless in | :59:48. | :59:51. | |
her efforts to protect steel. As has my honourable friend, the Secretary | :59:52. | :59:57. | |
of State for Wales. I have had the pleasure of working closely with the | :59:58. | :00:00. | |
Welsh First Minister and the leader of the Welsh Conservatives in the | :00:01. | :00:04. | |
assembly. They have been positive and constructive allies in the fight | :00:05. | :00:10. | |
to save Port Talbot. And the steel unions, particularly community, have | :00:11. | :00:14. | |
been equally constructive. They have consistently come forward with | :00:15. | :00:16. | |
solutions rather than can claims and for that I would like to say thank | :00:17. | :00:23. | |
you once again. Investors everywhere now that British Steel is the best | :00:24. | :00:34. | |
in the world. They know that the British government stands with the | :00:35. | :00:36. | |
steel industry and will do whatever they can to support and help them | :00:37. | :00:40. | |
become more competitive. The challenges they face are great. They | :00:41. | :00:46. | |
challenge the industry faces is global. But I fight for British | :00:47. | :00:49. | |
steelworkers every hour of the day. I fought for them along before this | :00:50. | :00:54. | |
crisis hit the headlines and I will go on fighting as long as it takes | :00:55. | :00:58. | |
because British steelworkers are the best in the world and deserve no | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
less. I congratulate the honourable member | :01:03. | :01:10. | |
on securing this debate and IPC and your discretion, Mr Speaker, in | :01:11. | :01:16. | |
omitting it, understanding order number 24. I will be brief, from our | :01:17. | :01:20. | |
frontbenchers, in order to allow colleagues from steel communities, | :01:21. | :01:25. | |
from Scotland, England, and Wales, to contribute to this short debate. | :01:26. | :01:29. | |
The Business Secretary yesterday tried to get out of the hole he had | :01:30. | :01:33. | |
dug himself by claiming credit for the news that Tata had found a | :01:34. | :01:39. | |
buyer, claiming the government did everything they could for the steel | :01:40. | :01:43. | |
industry and a sickly the workers in England and Wales should be grateful | :01:44. | :01:49. | |
to the Tories. -- basically. I am grateful that Tata has found a buyer | :01:50. | :01:56. | |
and hopefully the same can happen for Port Talbot and other sites, if | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
the government is involved then I do commend it, but I am concerned about | :02:01. | :02:06. | |
reports regarding the erosion of workers terms and conditions as part | :02:07. | :02:09. | |
of the deal. Is the Business Secretary aware of it? Did this come | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
up in discussions with Grable capital? And Willie you make | :02:15. | :02:24. | |
representations to them? I am also concerned about the potential | :02:25. | :02:26. | |
co-ownership of steel sites like Port Talbot, it was described as | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
co-investment in commercial terms. Perhaps he can clarify that is | :02:32. | :02:34. | |
yesterday left more questions than answers. Indeed it this morning | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
appears that number ten was briefing against him, against this | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
flirtation, saying that nationalisation is not the answer, | :02:45. | :02:54. | |
it is uncoordinated and shambolic. What the honourable gentleman said | :02:55. | :02:57. | |
about terms and conditions, that will be negotiated on site, | :02:58. | :03:01. | |
including in my constituency, the terms and congestion is being | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
reduced, and the pension conditions, R4 12 months only. That is usually | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
called a short-term working agreement, I have negotiated them | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
many times to save sight. As an industrial matter, not a political | :03:15. | :03:17. | |
matter, does not really the place of this House to discuss it. | :03:18. | :03:23. | |
I take the intervention with the intention in which it was clearly | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
given. As I said yesterday, the fact that the Business Secretary was | :03:29. | :03:31. | |
literally at the other side of the world at the height of the crisis is | :03:32. | :03:38. | |
a perfect metaphor for the Conservative approach to the steel | :03:39. | :03:42. | |
industry. Yesterday was the first time the government has proactively | :03:43. | :03:44. | |
engaged with the House on this issue. Even that was after a | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
shambolic recess where there were calls for the recall of Parliament. | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
On every other occasion that I have been involved in discussions, | :03:54. | :03:56. | |
certainly the vast majority of occasions when steel has been | :03:57. | :03:59. | |
discussed in this House, it is because the government has been | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
dragged here by opposition parties, as it has again today. It is clear | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
the government has been behind the curve on steel, and I have already | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
said that yesterday was the first time the government had proactively | :04:12. | :04:15. | |
and so, and that was after a shambolic recess. The government has | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
been behind the curve on this steel crisis. Defensive reactions rather | :04:20. | :04:25. | |
than proactive, practical support. In stark contrast to the | :04:26. | :04:28. | |
professional and diligent way the Scottish Government has approached | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
the crisis facing fines in Scotland. Nicola Sturgeon said the Scottish | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
Government would leave no stone and turned in saving a crucial industry | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
and that is exactly what happened. The Scottish steel task force was | :04:41. | :04:44. | |
quickly assembled and I am delighted to say that my honourable friend | :04:45. | :04:48. | |
from Motherwell, Wishaw, Hamilton West, contributed to that. Liberty | :04:49. | :04:52. | |
House has now bought these sites to maintain a crucial industry in | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
Scotland. The Business Secretary was noble enough yesterday to commend | :04:58. | :05:00. | |
the Scottish Government for its action and efforts and I thank him | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
for that, but the mask slipped later in the exchanges when my honourable | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
friend from Rutherglen and Hamilton West asked if the UK Government had | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
learned anything from the approach taken in Scotland. He said, the | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
Business Secretary said, that the only reason Scottish steel had a | :05:17. | :05:19. | |
bright future was because of the strength of the UK economy. Utterly | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
complacent, arrogant, and ignorant of the facts, Mr Speaker. We on | :05:25. | :05:30. | |
these benches stand in solidarity with English and Welsh steelworkers | :05:31. | :05:34. | |
as they struggle and fight for their jobs and their industry alongside | :05:35. | :05:40. | |
their union representatives. We hope the UK Government can work more | :05:41. | :05:43. | |
cooperatively with EU colleagues on anti-dumping measures and other | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
issues facing this industry so that there can be a long-term future for | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
the crucial part of the manufacturing sector. There needs to | :05:52. | :05:54. | |
be a credible manufacturing strategy, and for heavy industry, in | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
the UK. As the Shadow Business Secretary said this government faces | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
a massive, record-breaking, balance of trade imbalance. The only way of | :06:04. | :06:09. | |
rectifying that is to start making things. If the government supports | :06:10. | :06:12. | |
those areas of the economy rather than relying heavily on other areas. | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
Imagine what could have been achieved with the Prime Minister had | :06:17. | :06:20. | |
spent the last year touring European capitals, pressing for action on | :06:21. | :06:27. | |
steel. Rather than testing the patience of European colleagues on a | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
referendum gamble. To conclude, yesterday I asked the Business | :06:34. | :06:36. | |
Secretary a simple question and he dodged it. Now he has the | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
opportunity again to answer. With the published details of the | :06:41. | :06:44. | |
meetings, phone calls, and correspondence that he, the Prime | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
Minister, Chancellor, and other Cabinet members, have made in | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
respect to the steel industry? If he has done the work that he claims to | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
have done, if he has indeed strained every seen you for you will have | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
nothing to hide. Indeed it would help to show if he really on the | :07:02. | :07:08. | |
issue but he claims to have had. -- sinew. I suspect he dodged the | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
question because of the reputation he gained for himself ringing true. | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
What we needed to hear today and yesterday was about the commit this | :07:17. | :07:19. | |
government to save a crucial industry. Not just for the workers, | :07:20. | :07:24. | |
their jobs, their livelihoods, but the wider economy as well. I wonder | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
if we'll ever hear that commitment from this government. | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
There must be a time-limit, we will begin with six minutes. | :07:34. | :07:39. | |
It is a pleasure to follow the honourable member. I must say to him | :07:40. | :07:49. | |
though that I thought some of those remarks were more party political | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
than dealing with what we face today. We are dealing with people's | :07:55. | :08:00. | |
livelihoods. I hope the tone of the House today will be about a | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
solution, and what we can do. Rather than making particle points. | :08:06. | :08:14. | |
I regret that Parliament was not recalled. I thought it was a matter | :08:15. | :08:20. | |
of such urgency that we could have come back and had a debate. Members | :08:21. | :08:28. | |
would have attended. It was quite right and it was unanimously | :08:29. | :08:40. | |
approved. In my brief remarks, and I declare interest, some of my | :08:41. | :08:50. | |
constituents work and have been in touch about their concerns. It is | :08:51. | :08:56. | |
not just those who work directly, it is those who rely on the economic | :08:57. | :09:09. | |
benefit. I spent 13 years in South Wales. I thought the Shadow Business | :09:10. | :09:19. | |
Secretary made an analysis of the situation very well. It strikes me | :09:20. | :09:30. | |
that whichever way, there must be steel industry this country. We | :09:31. | :09:37. | |
cannot be left without a steel industry. If there is a war in the | :09:38. | :09:49. | |
future, you must have your own steel industry or you cannot defend | :09:50. | :09:56. | |
yourself. I think everybody accepts that we need a steel industry and | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
wants to work towards a solution and I know the ministerial team have | :10:01. | :10:06. | |
been working very hard. I do think they are working with one hand tied | :10:07. | :10:17. | |
behind their back. The problem we have is the unfair dumping of steel | :10:18. | :10:29. | |
onto the market backed by state-controlled companies which | :10:30. | :10:35. | |
could put millions of pounds into their industries. I suppose if I was | :10:36. | :10:43. | |
sitting in China, the classic way that you do it is to sell your | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
product abroad at less than what it costs to produce it. What then | :10:49. | :10:57. | |
happens? As we have seen, there are businesses across Europe closing | :10:58. | :11:04. | |
because of this and then what happens is because those industries | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
are knocked out, the main supplier takes a bigger share of the market | :11:09. | :11:16. | |
and they can bump the price of steel up. That is just what happens. Where | :11:17. | :11:28. | |
I think one hand is tied behind the back is the European Union. The | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
problem has been delays in the European Union dealing with tariffs. | :11:34. | :11:44. | |
If we were in the united states, the president imposes tariffs and that | :11:45. | :11:50. | |
shuts off Chinese steel. You think about the issue and whether the | :11:51. | :12:00. | |
government is being Barrett at pushing for tariffs, I think we | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
should agree that if this matter was totally in the hands of this | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
Parliament, the government could make a decision and act and the | :12:10. | :12:12. | |
opposition could criticise and a vote against it. The trouble is, | :12:13. | :12:22. | |
because of state aid rules... This is an absolutely vital national | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
industry. Can my honourable friend imagine any previous United Kingdom | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
government allowing our steel industry to go down the tube? If we | :12:33. | :12:41. | |
had control of our own destiny, surely we could stop this overnight. | :12:42. | :12:48. | |
This is unfair and unreasonable and we should stop it. My honourable | :12:49. | :12:57. | |
friend speaks correctly on this. I'm afraid the front benches cannot deal | :12:58. | :13:04. | |
with this because of the position they've taken. I think if the | :13:05. | :13:10. | |
referendum had not been going on at the moment... Until he got onto his | :13:11. | :13:19. | |
usual track about the EU I agreed with him. But the constituency | :13:20. | :13:29. | |
company I have is a Spanish and Catalan company. If we left, the | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
uncertainty and damage in South Wales but he said he cared about | :13:34. | :13:39. | |
would be immense and it is grossly irresponsible to suggest that | :13:40. | :13:45. | |
leaving the EU would benefit this country. I think his analysis is | :13:46. | :13:51. | |
absolutely wrong and his ideology is driving those comments. I'm not | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
going to give way anymore. Other members want to speak and that would | :13:56. | :14:02. | |
be wrong. It is interesting to note, by the time this debate ends, a | :14:03. | :14:14. | |
cheque will have been written. That is how much money we send. A | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
fraction of that money could be used to protect the steel industry. | :14:20. | :14:25. | |
Whilst we are talking about whether we want to nationalise or sell off, | :14:26. | :14:30. | |
I have no problem with that. If we want partial ownership of the steel | :14:31. | :14:34. | |
industry, that makes sense. But there is no point doing that if you | :14:35. | :14:45. | |
cannot solve the over rule problem, the dumping of steel in this | :14:46. | :14:53. | |
country. You have to cut the cancer out first. It is because of... I | :14:54. | :15:02. | |
have constituents that are concerned and worried about their jobs and I | :15:03. | :15:07. | |
tell you that it is because of the European Union that they may lose | :15:08. | :15:11. | |
their jobs. It may make you smile and laugh but that is the truth and | :15:12. | :15:14. | |
you should be ashamed of saying otherwise. If we want to solve the | :15:15. | :15:28. | |
problem, we must stop the dumping. I know that some members opposite | :15:29. | :15:32. | |
don't like it. The only way to stave the steel industry is to come out of | :15:33. | :15:40. | |
the EU and make our road decisions in this house. If we had not been in | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
the EU months ago we would have imposed tariffs on China. If you | :15:46. | :15:50. | |
want to save the steel industry you need to come out of the EU. I would | :15:51. | :15:57. | |
like to start today by thanking my right honourable friend for securing | :15:58. | :16:04. | |
this bit. I would like to thank the Secretary of State for his pigment | :16:05. | :16:07. | |
yesterday and today and to thank him for attending the meeting. -- his | :16:08. | :16:15. | |
statement. I regret that these meetings have done very little to | :16:16. | :16:21. | |
address the issue of investor and customer confidence, of paramount | :16:22. | :16:24. | |
importance at this time. The priority at the moment alongside the | :16:25. | :16:30. | |
efforts to find an operator should be securing the order book. The | :16:31. | :16:37. | |
customer base is the most pressing issue, and the erosion of it. If | :16:38. | :16:42. | |
that goes it will not come back. Unless the order book is secured, it | :16:43. | :16:46. | |
does not matter what else happened. Nobody will buy a business if it has | :16:47. | :16:51. | |
no customers. That is why I am deeply concerned by the response to | :16:52. | :16:57. | |
my question yesterday. I asked him to outline the specific actions he | :16:58. | :17:00. | |
was taking in this regard. His answer was he would be happy to | :17:01. | :17:05. | |
engage with customers as and when they approached him. This is simply | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
not good enough. The Secretary of State should be on the phone, | :17:11. | :17:17. | |
reaching out to the CEOs, making it clear that the production of the | :17:18. | :17:21. | |
world-class steel they have come to expect will continue come hell or | :17:22. | :17:25. | |
high water. This house and every steelworker in the country now looks | :17:26. | :17:30. | |
to the Secretary of State to take action. He should set out precisely | :17:31. | :17:37. | |
the representations he intends to make to the companies that comprise | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
the customer base which is the lifeblood of the British steel | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
industry. The honourable gentleman makes an important point about the | :17:47. | :17:55. | |
supply chain and customers. We are engaging with many of them. I know | :17:56. | :18:04. | |
the Secretary of State for Wales is as well. I hope he understands that | :18:05. | :18:13. | |
there is a lot of information it would be quite improper to dive old. | :18:14. | :18:26. | |
I think it is important to be on the telephone. At the present time, | :18:27. | :18:38. | |
forgive us for scepticism about the idea that there may be a lack of | :18:39. | :18:49. | |
action. The Secretary of State is belatedly converted to the fact that | :18:50. | :18:52. | |
the government and industry can work together in partnership, I'm not | :18:53. | :18:57. | |
sure what co-investment means in his terms. I agree with the Secretary of | :18:58. | :19:04. | |
State that nationalisation is not a long-term solution but customers | :19:05. | :19:07. | |
need to know that come what may they will be able to purchase products | :19:08. | :19:13. | |
from these sites. Such security can only be possible if the government | :19:14. | :19:17. | |
commits to keep these options on the table. The men and women working in | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
steel and connected industries across this country are among the | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
most highly skilled and effective people in Britain and the workforce | :19:27. | :19:34. | |
is turning the business around. Their skill and dedication is | :19:35. | :19:45. | |
matched by the general secretary of Community, who even the Secretary of | :19:46. | :19:49. | |
State managed to praise. But we need the government to announce an end to | :19:50. | :19:54. | |
their relaxed attitude. We needed a list of all the discussions they've | :19:55. | :19:57. | |
had with the customer base and what we got was prevarication and | :19:58. | :20:02. | |
procrastination. What we needed was the announcement that all options | :20:03. | :20:06. | |
were on the table and we got ambiguity. What we needed was the | :20:07. | :20:09. | |
announcement they would give up their role as China's chief | :20:10. | :20:16. | |
cheerleader in Europe and end their championing of market economy status | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
for China and trade defence reform but what we got was more of the | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
same. Yesterday, the Secretary of State confirmed what we already | :20:27. | :20:29. | |
knew, that the approach has been characterised by a dangerous | :20:30. | :20:36. | |
combination of indifference, incompetence, and rolling out the | :20:37. | :20:41. | |
red carpet for Beijing. Was he as surprised as I was to hear the | :20:42. | :20:45. | |
Chancellor going to China and inviting members to take part in the | :20:46. | :20:50. | |
HS2 project so we could have Chinese steel in major infrastructure | :20:51. | :20:56. | |
projects? I was not surprised and I would remind the house that 80% of | :20:57. | :21:00. | |
the Chinese steel sector is state owned. On what planet can that be | :21:01. | :21:09. | |
considered as a market economy? The claims to have been working on these | :21:10. | :21:13. | |
four months do not stack up. The Secretary of State claimed to have | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
been aware of Tata steel's decision to sell before it was publicly | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
announced. If that was the case, why on earth was he on the other side of | :21:23. | :21:28. | |
the world when the board meeting was taking place? Why was he caught on | :21:29. | :21:35. | |
aware -- caught unaware? Why did he rushed back to the UK in a panic? | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
The Secretary of State boasted that it was his actions alone that | :21:41. | :21:44. | |
prevented Tata steel from closing rather than selling Port Talbot. I | :21:45. | :21:50. | |
must admit that my jaw hit the floor when I heard that claim. I was out | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
in Mumbai, I was therefore the board meeting with the head of Community. | :21:56. | :22:02. | |
The Secretary of State was not there. Tata steel have expressed | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
frustration with the lack of support they have received from this | :22:07. | :22:10. | |
government. Many companies remaining to receive money. Weasel words from | :22:11. | :22:18. | |
a government which got the latest steel for Ministry of Defence | :22:19. | :22:30. | |
frigates from Sweden. This supposedly pro-business government | :22:31. | :22:43. | |
is actually very limited. Labour MPs have raised the issue on over 200 | :22:44. | :22:53. | |
separate occasions. The clock is ticking. Tata steel have said they | :22:54. | :22:58. | |
will give this seal all due time. Yesterday's news about Scunthorpe | :22:59. | :23:01. | |
took almost nine months to come and is still not complete. The deal may | :23:02. | :23:08. | |
take time. Mr Speaker, let us hope that today's debate marks a step | :23:09. | :23:12. | |
change in attitude and action from this government. Let us hope they | :23:13. | :23:17. | |
will draw actively work to protect the entirety of the order book, save | :23:18. | :23:23. | |
the future of Port Talbot, define what they mean. | :23:24. | :23:29. | |
As he is aware, his colleagues and the Welsh Government have been | :23:30. | :23:43. | |
discussing this issue. Does he think the ?60 million allocated to Tata | :23:44. | :23:47. | |
Steel is sufficient? We have a stark contrast between the actions of the | :23:48. | :23:51. | |
Welsh Government and the UK Government. 60 million on the table, | :23:52. | :23:54. | |
the Welsh assembly recall that when that surely should have been | :23:55. | :23:57. | |
happening here, so the contrast is clear. Let us hope they will develop | :23:58. | :24:02. | |
and execute a proper industrial strategy so that we on these benches | :24:03. | :24:06. | |
do not have too raised this matter a further 200 times in the weeks and | :24:07. | :24:10. | |
months to come. Let us hope that they will stand up for steel. Mr | :24:11. | :24:16. | |
Speaker, it is a pleasure to follow the member perhaps unfortunately his | :24:17. | :24:24. | |
speech viewed too much towards the critical rather than the | :24:25. | :24:27. | |
constructive but I think he can be forgiven because he's one of many | :24:28. | :24:34. | |
MPs who would like to speak whose constituencies have significant | :24:35. | :24:36. | |
steel-making. My constituency is not one of those but in Parliament we | :24:37. | :24:41. | |
talk as one community as a whole for all of our constituencies and also | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
how they want to reach out to other communities that are severely | :24:47. | :24:50. | |
effected when things go wrong in an industry or because of natural | :24:51. | :24:54. | |
disasters. Let me repeat that the issues in the steel industry are not | :24:55. | :25:00. | |
going to go away. We face many, many years of brutal competition in the | :25:01. | :25:08. | |
global steel industry. If my right honourable friend and his team are | :25:09. | :25:13. | |
able successfully to find long-term solutions for the steel-making | :25:14. | :25:19. | |
plants in Motherwell and Scunthorpe that will be a very significant | :25:20. | :25:27. | |
achievement to come flesh in these times I think we ought to also talk | :25:28. | :25:34. | |
about what the rules to be. The OTC geek's report on the steel industry | :25:35. | :25:46. | |
-- OECD's report said that it is their own responsibility to adapt to | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
market conditions. We have to accept that many steel companies in the UK | :25:51. | :25:53. | |
have failed to achieve that. It goes on to say the role of governments | :25:54. | :25:59. | |
should be to allow market mechanisms to work properly and avoid measures | :26:00. | :26:04. | |
that artificially support steel-making capacity. The OECD | :26:05. | :26:11. | |
understand the ways in which developing economies can prosper is | :26:12. | :26:17. | |
important for the Government to bear those words in mind. It is also | :26:18. | :26:21. | |
important and I would like to hear from this when the minister closes | :26:22. | :26:24. | |
that whilst we prepare for the best we also have to prepare for the | :26:25. | :26:28. | |
worst so I would like to know what the governor is doing in terms of | :26:29. | :26:33. | |
preparing for support in Port Talbot should all of the best efforts of | :26:34. | :26:37. | |
this Government not to come to fruition in saving those steelworks | :26:38. | :26:40. | |
and may I just make one point from my memory of the times with the coal | :26:41. | :26:47. | |
mining communities in the 1980s. There is never enough support that | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
the Government can give to communities that rely on a single | :26:52. | :26:54. | |
industry. There is never enough support. With respect, I am making | :26:55. | :27:04. | |
the point that lessons have been learned from the 1980s and that in | :27:05. | :27:09. | |
communities where there is a significant concentration of | :27:10. | :27:13. | |
industries, the Government always has to do more than it thinks it has | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
to do, but on the issue of duties and this has been mentioned a number | :27:19. | :27:22. | |
of times so let's just clear up on the lesser duty role. The point is | :27:23. | :27:29. | |
is the duty effective? We follow the lesser duty role. MP3 instances that | :27:30. | :27:34. | |
my right honourable friend mentioned, the import duty has all | :27:35. | :27:42. | |
but disappeared. If we give up the lesser duty rule, it is not about | :27:43. | :27:46. | |
stopping steel coming in, it is about raising prices on those | :27:47. | :27:50. | |
products. You take a 14% tariff and you increase it to 50% when imports | :27:51. | :27:55. | |
have been eliminated and that will result in inflationary pressure from | :27:56. | :27:58. | |
the steel industry to other markets and also may be seen as supporting | :27:59. | :28:03. | |
subsidies from one part of the steel industry to another. It is not right | :28:04. | :28:07. | |
for us to give up the lesser duty role which is the underpinning and | :28:08. | :28:15. | |
go to the US approach of zeroing on tariffs. The same US decision impose | :28:16. | :28:31. | |
a 31% tariff on Tata Steel itself. Tit-for-tat tariffs do not work. | :28:32. | :28:37. | |
Does he have a view as to why it is that the dumping the Chinese are | :28:38. | :28:41. | |
doing affect the UK industry so much more than it affects the German and | :28:42. | :28:45. | |
the Dutch industry and indeed Tata Steel have consolidated in Holland | :28:46. | :28:48. | |
and white is that we are differentially affected like this? I | :28:49. | :28:52. | |
my honourable friend beaks intelligently. This is because | :28:53. | :28:54. | |
private companies will make decisions in different markets | :28:55. | :28:59. | |
across the EU. I think it is fair to say that I don't think the issue is | :29:00. | :29:02. | |
here and I must disagree with my honourable friend because I am not | :29:03. | :29:07. | |
sure that the EU issue here is pertinent to the decisions that will | :29:08. | :29:11. | |
affect the steel industry. The Government is taking effective | :29:12. | :29:13. | |
action on procurement, it is taking effective action on power. I do | :29:14. | :29:18. | |
think having sat on the bill committee on the privatisation of | :29:19. | :29:23. | |
Royal Mail that a case can be made by the Government to take action on | :29:24. | :29:26. | |
the pension requirements for those members of the British Steel | :29:27. | :29:31. | |
industry when it was nationalised. I think there was plenty of scope for | :29:32. | :29:33. | |
people like myself who believe in a free market by the Government to | :29:34. | :29:36. | |
take action on that basis and just to the point of nationalisation and | :29:37. | :29:39. | |
we hear this from the opposition bench on they say they believe the | :29:40. | :29:49. | |
nationalisation but not that it is a long one solution. Do the members | :29:50. | :29:53. | |
opposite know when this crisis in the global steel industry will end? | :29:54. | :29:57. | |
They don't. The global capacity is over 13%. I am afraid if you | :29:58. | :30:04. | |
nationalised, you can do that, but you can't determine when you will be | :30:05. | :30:08. | |
able to put it back into the private market. When you nationalised, you | :30:09. | :30:12. | |
nationalised or as long as it takes and I believe, though I understand | :30:13. | :30:16. | |
the reasons why my honourable friend will not roll this out, I personally | :30:17. | :30:20. | |
believe the Government should pull out nationalisation. I think this is | :30:21. | :30:25. | |
a step too far for the British economy to support the steel | :30:26. | :30:29. | |
industry. If I made is that the issue of the steel industry in | :30:30. | :30:32. | |
context because we are going in a global economy not just in steel but | :30:33. | :30:37. | |
a global economy for the time that most of us will be in this house we | :30:38. | :30:44. | |
will live through an environment where there is a global oversupply | :30:45. | :30:49. | |
of capacity. It will not just be in steel. It will affect other sectors | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
of our economy. We need to understand and abide by those rules | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
that have created a free trade system that has been one of the most | :30:58. | :31:02. | |
supporters of improving living standards around the world, | :31:03. | :31:08. | |
supporting OECD pulls on the lesser duty tariff is important. Making | :31:09. | :31:14. | |
sure those communities that have a significant industry that is | :31:15. | :31:18. | |
affected and making sure that the Government does more than it thinks | :31:19. | :31:21. | |
it needs to do to support the communities is part of making sure | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
our economy support those measures. I commend the Government for its | :31:27. | :31:28. | |
actions and I will continue to support them. Mr Speaker, it is a | :31:29. | :31:36. | |
pleasure to follow my colleague on the business Select Committee. I do | :31:37. | :31:39. | |
not agree with many of what he said today. The rigour of his analysis | :31:40. | :31:46. | |
and also the work of the committee makes the committee much sharper in | :31:47. | :31:51. | |
what we do so I commend him. I also welcome this emergency debate | :31:52. | :31:54. | |
because we are facing in the steel industry a real emergency and we are | :31:55. | :31:58. | |
facing for some time. In the long term, we in the committee found | :31:59. | :32:01. | |
going back 40 years successive governments have failed to value the | :32:02. | :32:05. | |
importance of manufacturing and domestic steel-making capability as | :32:06. | :32:11. | |
the fountain missions -- like as the foundations of our economy. Other | :32:12. | :32:16. | |
countries have valued their domestic steel industry more than we have | :32:17. | :32:20. | |
which has made them more resilient to this perfect storm currently | :32:21. | :32:27. | |
effecting global steel markets about overproduction. I want to put on the | :32:28. | :32:33. | |
record that the challenges facing all steel manufacturers around the | :32:34. | :32:37. | |
world are vast. Let me just say, China more or less produces more | :32:38. | :32:42. | |
steel than every other steel-making manufacturing nation are put | :32:43. | :32:46. | |
together. In two years, China has produced more steel than we as the | :32:47. | :32:53. | |
inventor of modern steel-making, has produced since the start of the | :32:54. | :32:57. | |
Industrial Revolution so even if the Government was doing all that it | :32:58. | :33:01. | |
could, those challenges remain fast, but having said that, I do think the | :33:02. | :33:04. | |
Government can be doing more because I think Britain does face an unlevel | :33:05. | :33:09. | |
playing field in respect of steel production in the form of a -- in | :33:10. | :33:21. | |
the form of high energy costs. The Government can have an effect on | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
that. We on the business Select Committee published report about the | :33:26. | :33:30. | |
Government response to the steel crisis in December. That was | :33:31. | :33:33. | |
prompted by big turbulence, particularly the close of the steel | :33:34. | :33:40. | |
plant in Redcar. What that revealed was a shocking ineffectiveness of an | :33:41. | :33:45. | |
early warning system in Whitehall designed to detect mounting problems | :33:46. | :33:48. | |
in the industry. The industry has been crying out about procurement | :33:49. | :33:52. | |
and business rates and energy costs for some time but the Government had | :33:53. | :33:57. | |
been deaf to these please. If fit had been alert, it would not have to | :33:58. | :34:02. | |
resort to crisis management and preside over the closure of the | :34:03. | :34:06. | |
second most efficient blast furnace anywhere in Europe and the loss and | :34:07. | :34:12. | |
it is the lost forever of the steel industry of jobs and skills. We also | :34:13. | :34:17. | |
found on the Select Committee report that the Government recognises the | :34:18. | :34:24. | |
steel industry is of vital importance but giving increased | :34:25. | :34:26. | |
activity, the increased activity had not yet translated into measurable | :34:27. | :34:32. | |
impact for those in the industry and those communities they sustain. Five | :34:33. | :34:35. | |
months on from the closure of the Redcar plant and with other closures | :34:36. | :34:40. | |
and with the decision last month by Tata Steel to close its UK | :34:41. | :34:43. | |
operations, I think it is difficult to avoid the conclusion that those | :34:44. | :34:47. | |
lessons have not been learned and that increased activity has not | :34:48. | :34:51. | |
resulted in positive outcomes. He talks about the absence of an early | :34:52. | :34:55. | |
warning system. Does he have any concerns in his capacity as chair of | :34:56. | :34:59. | |
the business Select Committee that there is insufficient capacity | :35:00. | :35:01. | |
within the Department itself to respond to these challenges as they | :35:02. | :35:04. | |
emerge on the world markets? I think my honourable friend pics an | :35:05. | :35:07. | |
interesting point there because in terms of what the Department should | :35:08. | :35:11. | |
be doing, which is essentially looking out for the British economy, | :35:12. | :35:15. | |
making sure that it is really the Department of future economic | :35:16. | :35:19. | |
growth, it needs to have the capacity within the civil service to | :35:20. | :35:21. | |
be able to do that and the proposal to lose 30-40% of its headcount will | :35:22. | :35:29. | |
have enormous consequences in terms of having those early warning | :35:30. | :35:31. | |
systems and in terms of the expertise and the knowledge. Steel | :35:32. | :35:36. | |
industries and other key sectors in order to make sure that Britain can | :35:37. | :35:40. | |
thrive. The Secretary of State will today and yesterday in his statement | :35:41. | :35:43. | |
stated that he was aware that Tata Steel was planning to hard close its | :35:44. | :35:49. | |
steel operations in Port Talbot and elsewhere, but he prevented that | :35:50. | :35:51. | |
from happening. Sophie was fully aware of the enormity of the crisis | :35:52. | :35:55. | |
committee still flew to Australia rather than Mumbai. The evidence has | :35:56. | :35:59. | |
to suggest the conclusion, Mr Speaker, that he was left blindsided | :36:00. | :36:04. | |
by Tata Steel's decision which again demonstrates that no effective early | :36:05. | :36:07. | |
warning systems were in place. The Secretary of State should have gone | :36:08. | :36:16. | |
out to bat with Tata Steel and bat for British steel-making. The fact | :36:17. | :36:19. | |
that he subsequently went on by, days after that keyboard meeting, | :36:20. | :36:23. | |
shows that he had known he had made an earlier error and I have to say | :36:24. | :36:29. | |
the contract has to be made with the events of 2012 when Vince Cable, | :36:30. | :36:33. | |
when he was Business Secretary, went to New York to persuade General | :36:34. | :36:36. | |
Motors to make a long-term commitment to the UK despite | :36:37. | :36:39. | |
overcapacity in carmaking operations in Europe which were loss-making and | :36:40. | :36:45. | |
as a result of the close partnership between Government of the time, | :36:46. | :36:49. | |
trade unions, and local management, General Motors close a plant in | :36:50. | :36:53. | |
Germany and committed to build the new car in the UK and given the | :36:54. | :36:59. | |
great industrial relations in steel, fantastic trade unions, exceptional | :37:00. | :37:01. | |
steelworkers and committed local management, why can't this model be | :37:02. | :37:07. | |
adopted for the steel industry? We have got to look to the future and | :37:08. | :37:11. | |
to make sure that we have the sustainable steel industry. I have | :37:12. | :37:15. | |
mentioned the existential threat to British steel-making, but it is | :37:16. | :37:18. | |
important to recognise that steel should not be seen as an obsolete | :37:19. | :37:23. | |
industry but one that is absolutely essential to much of British | :37:24. | :37:26. | |
manufacturing. We should be honest about the challenges but we should | :37:27. | :37:29. | |
not talk the industry down, which would hasten further the signing of | :37:30. | :37:34. | |
the industry's death warrant. We all have a responsibility to ensure | :37:35. | :37:37. | |
customers do not take flight. Government can help to a significant | :37:38. | :37:40. | |
degree with regards to that. It has brought forward welcome changes to | :37:41. | :37:43. | |
procurement rules which are favoured British meat steel and its products | :37:44. | :37:49. | |
during the awarding of contracts, but something similar was announced | :37:50. | :37:51. | |
in October following the steel summit but we have no real tangible | :37:52. | :37:54. | |
evidence in the form of the contract is flowing into British companies | :37:55. | :38:00. | |
and plans and. No single pound of value has been seen. I asked the | :38:01. | :38:06. | |
Secretary of State about how urgently a collaboration was taking | :38:07. | :38:15. | |
place. Will the Minister give further clarity on that? | :38:16. | :38:20. | |
Steel-making plays a major part in the infrastructure of the country. | :38:21. | :38:25. | |
The Government published on the 23rd of March the national infrastructure | :38:26. | :38:29. | |
delivery plan. It has one reference to steel. Will the Government commit | :38:30. | :38:32. | |
to talk to the Cabinet Office to make sure that more can be done? | :38:33. | :38:38. | |
This is incredibly important both for my constituents and the future | :38:39. | :38:40. | |
of British manufacturing. It is important that we move away from | :38:41. | :38:44. | |
words into real, tangible action to safeguard British Steel. | :38:45. | :38:49. | |
Thank you. It is a great pleasure to follow the member for Hartlepool, | :38:50. | :38:59. | |
whose constituency also has a downstream Tartar production sites | :39:00. | :39:02. | |
and we share that similarity. I share much of his concern. This is | :39:03. | :39:09. | |
of much concern to families and call me alone. I think about them all the | :39:10. | :39:17. | |
time in the work doing. To try and support those families in the steel | :39:18. | :39:24. | |
industry in general. Ukip MVP, the Labour leader of the council and | :39:25. | :39:27. | |
myself are working closely together to campaign on this issue. This is | :39:28. | :39:32. | |
what people expect us to do and I was very pleased that the minister | :39:33. | :39:35. | |
was able to come and join us last week. I'm also pleased to be working | :39:36. | :39:42. | |
with other representatives. That relationship is very important. | :39:43. | :39:46. | |
Their feedback helps me to participate in these debates and to | :39:47. | :39:49. | |
put questions to ministers. And I think that needs to be replicated | :39:50. | :39:53. | |
nationally. There's far too much knock-about at the moment. I want to | :39:54. | :39:57. | |
see us getting around the table and working with unions, ministers and | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
backbench MPs and employees to make sure we find solutions to these very | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
pressing problems. And the bid it wasn't just useful last week, to | :40:06. | :40:11. | |
meet the employees, but it is also useful to get a briefing on exactly | :40:12. | :40:15. | |
where things stand. There was a clear message that came across. That | :40:16. | :40:19. | |
was that it is not just money is needed, but it is also time and I | :40:20. | :40:25. | |
think we need to bear that in mind as we head forward. And that leads | :40:26. | :40:30. | |
me to the challenges it faces. The first one, so evidently, is the | :40:31. | :40:34. | |
overarching challenge of dumping. These unfair and uncompetitive | :40:35. | :40:39. | |
practices we are seeing are completely unacceptable. We have | :40:40. | :40:43. | |
heard about Chinese dumping, but Russian dumping is of particular | :40:44. | :40:48. | |
concern in Corby. We have also got a brilliant industry. The product as | :40:49. | :40:52. | |
world leading in this country, but at the moment it cannot compete, | :40:53. | :40:56. | |
because the playing field is uneven. That frames the whole debate. The | :40:57. | :41:02. | |
Chinese objective in particular is very, very clear. It is to try and | :41:03. | :41:10. | |
dominate the world market, put and other supplies out of business and | :41:11. | :41:16. | |
then they can right price. Cheap steel may an attractive prospect for | :41:17. | :41:26. | |
other industries. I think, as a whole, we need to take stock of that | :41:27. | :41:30. | |
fact and I think we do need to respond with strong tariffs. I think | :41:31. | :41:34. | |
we do need to try to eliminate some of the action President Obama has | :41:35. | :41:39. | |
taken, for example. I will give way. He is making a compelling point on | :41:40. | :41:43. | |
the issue of tariffs. These he agreed that it's not just the issue | :41:44. | :41:47. | |
of how high you set the anti-dumping. It is also about the | :41:48. | :41:57. | |
speed, the speed with which decisions are taken and in vetoing | :41:58. | :42:03. | |
that the session, the government is also blocking an accelerated | :42:04. | :42:06. | |
timetable for the position of anti-dumping duties. Thank you for | :42:07. | :42:12. | |
the intervention. I take it we ought to have another look at the lesser | :42:13. | :42:18. | |
duty rule. I think it's important to make our thinking fresh. But it is | :42:19. | :42:24. | |
about... The point is that the speed as informant money the frustrations | :42:25. | :42:27. | |
I was going to come onto is the amount of time it took the European | :42:28. | :42:33. | |
Commission to approve the energy compensation package last year. That | :42:34. | :42:38. | |
was unacceptable. -- is as important. I will give way. Thank | :42:39. | :42:47. | |
you. I know that he was three times last week... He was at the Corby | :42:48. | :42:51. | |
steelworks. But he agreed with the Right Honourable member for | :42:52. | :42:55. | |
Sheffield Hallam when he criticised the European Union for being slow | :42:56. | :42:59. | |
and an effective in dealing with the steel industry? Well, the former | :43:00. | :43:05. | |
Deputy Prime Minister knows more than most how inefficient the | :43:06. | :43:09. | |
European Union is. I'm not going to give way, because I am aware of the | :43:10. | :43:15. | |
time. I want to touch on the fact that we need to get the tariffs | :43:16. | :43:20. | |
right, but we also need to look for another argument being made. I take | :43:21. | :43:23. | |
the view that if the Chinese are not going to play by the rules, they | :43:24. | :43:27. | |
shouldn't be allowed to have market economy status. I do hope that the | :43:28. | :43:33. | |
European Union reaches that conclusion as well. An energy costs, | :43:34. | :43:37. | |
we have heard a lot in recent years about climate change. I think we | :43:38. | :43:41. | |
need to be constantly thinking about the consequences of the policies we | :43:42. | :43:48. | |
bring. Government cannot act in silent mentality. It's constantly | :43:49. | :43:52. | |
got to be looking at the implications of energy policy. We | :43:53. | :43:56. | |
must always bear that in mind and I welcome the compensation package an | :43:57. | :43:59. | |
energy that I alluded to a little while ago. They take months to | :44:00. | :44:11. | |
improve. Also mentioned yesterday was measures around exempting. We | :44:12. | :44:14. | |
were hearing about potential delays in that. I would be interested in | :44:15. | :44:19. | |
final remarks to understand what the situation is and where we are with | :44:20. | :44:23. | |
that. I do think that that is an important step forward. On | :44:24. | :44:26. | |
procurement, I happen to take the view that we ought to get much more | :44:27. | :44:31. | |
tough on this. We have seen some really positive steps forward, but | :44:32. | :44:35. | |
it is simply unacceptable, to my mind, to any public bobby is not to | :44:36. | :44:46. | |
be using British Steel at that time. -- any public bodies. You must make | :44:47. | :44:51. | |
sure our procurement policy reflects this. The point about the integrity | :44:52. | :44:57. | |
of the order book is also important. Also the integrity of supply chains | :44:58. | :45:01. | |
is important. We need them to keep supplying and buyers to keep on | :45:02. | :45:06. | |
buying. Business rates, at the time we are trying to find investment and | :45:07. | :45:10. | |
someone to buy the Corby site and other sites that they own at the | :45:11. | :45:16. | |
moment, it makes little sense to investors when they step up to the | :45:17. | :45:22. | |
mark, before buying it can't or portfolio, but we are then asking | :45:23. | :45:26. | |
them to invest and penalised but investment the moment it is made. It | :45:27. | :45:32. | |
makes little sense. I advocate the business rates holiday before the | :45:33. | :45:36. | |
budget, and others like them to have another look at that. It shows | :45:37. | :45:40. | |
confidence the government is backing the industry and we are all coming | :45:41. | :45:45. | |
together. It is a bizarre anomaly. I happen to take the view that, in | :45:46. | :45:49. | |
relation to finding a buyer for these Tata Steel site, for these | :45:50. | :45:53. | |
options being on the table, we should not rule anything out. I know | :45:54. | :45:59. | |
people say I am a free-market conservative, but the fact is that | :46:00. | :46:02. | |
our steel industry is not competing on a level playing field and that | :46:03. | :46:06. | |
requires action that doesn't necessarily go along the normal | :46:07. | :46:09. | |
grain. So we shouldn't rule anything out and I take the view that if a | :46:10. | :46:14. | |
short period of public ownership is required in order to find a buyer, | :46:15. | :46:21. | |
that is exactly what we should do. That's absolutely right. And I want | :46:22. | :46:25. | |
to hear more later on to ascertain what ministers are thinking on that | :46:26. | :46:30. | |
particular point. But along the way, in trying to reach that point, we | :46:31. | :46:35. | |
mustn't let state aid rules get away. They get in the way, we should | :46:36. | :46:40. | |
simply ignore them and get what is right by the steel industry. That is | :46:41. | :46:45. | |
the message Corby expect me to convey. Thank you. Can I thank you | :46:46. | :46:53. | |
for granting this very important debate, in particular because I do | :46:54. | :46:57. | |
have 900 very good quality jobs on the line in stocks bridge. I support | :46:58. | :47:05. | |
everything my friend on front bench said earlier and I'm not going to | :47:06. | :47:11. | |
rehearse the usual issues that have been tabulated so far and so ably by | :47:12. | :47:17. | |
so many speakers. Energy costs and business rates included. I will not | :47:18. | :47:25. | |
talk about co-investment. I want to focus on the issue of confidence. In | :47:26. | :47:30. | |
the future of the steel industry, because this is a really serious | :47:31. | :47:34. | |
issue and we are at risk of seeing the industry undermined by people | :47:35. | :47:41. | |
who are posing as an expert in the field, commentators in the print | :47:42. | :47:43. | |
media for instance, who are giving the impression that the steel | :47:44. | :47:47. | |
industry today is done. It is not done, it has got a great future. One | :47:48. | :47:57. | |
said... This is not an ideological attack they said last week... | :47:58. | :48:06. | |
"Unlike German plants, UK plants have tended to produce a basic | :48:07. | :48:11. | |
products, using out of date technology." I just want to put on | :48:12. | :48:15. | |
the record that in every Formula 1 car in this country, apart from | :48:16. | :48:21. | |
Ferrari, every Formula 1 car made has a bit of stocks bridge steel in | :48:22. | :48:30. | |
it. Every aircraft in this guy has this stealing it. It is this steel | :48:31. | :48:39. | |
that land the plane safely. They keep the aircraft in the sky and we | :48:40. | :48:42. | |
should be very proud and we are incredibly proud in Stocksbridge and | :48:43. | :48:49. | |
what we do. And that workforce is passionate about its future and | :48:50. | :48:54. | |
intends to have a long-term future, but it needs the government to | :48:55. | :48:59. | |
support it. -- Stocksbridge. I want to go on to illustrate the other | :49:00. | :49:05. | |
thing is doing. We have just secured ?50 million worth of investment, so | :49:06. | :49:12. | |
we can make the steel and we mounted in order to make even purer steel. | :49:13. | :49:20. | |
So we can go further up the value chain. Also to correct, Stocksbridge | :49:21. | :49:27. | |
is not a downstream operation. Tata Steel makes its own steel and remote | :49:28. | :49:33. | |
set and makes some of the best in the world. One involves making | :49:34. | :49:41. | |
powdered steel, which is worth 30,000 to ?40,000 per tonne. If we | :49:42. | :49:44. | |
get investment for that, the plan that will go on the side of the | :49:45. | :49:52. | |
other plan, our future is spectacular, so we must secure it. I | :49:53. | :49:57. | |
make this point in relation to all the Tata Steel plant at risk. People | :49:58. | :50:06. | |
say let's go specialised. Actually, Stocksbridge is very specialised, | :50:07. | :50:11. | |
but the steel made at Port Talbot is specialised and high quality. It is | :50:12. | :50:14. | |
a different type of steel, made according to a different progress | :50:15. | :50:21. | |
Tabeen-macro process. But it is still fantastic and good quality. We | :50:22. | :50:25. | |
make some of the best steel in the world. -- a different process. Too | :50:26. | :50:31. | |
many commentators are focusing on steel as an industry of the past. It | :50:32. | :50:38. | |
is an industry of the future. And I finish by looking at the reports | :50:39. | :50:47. | |
recently published, which made it clear that manufacturing will be | :50:48. | :50:53. | |
transformed by 2050, in the next 30 years. The future of our | :50:54. | :50:59. | |
manufacturing industry is focused on adaptability, in terms of the | :51:00. | :51:05. | |
rapidly changing infrastructure. The steel industry is very well placed | :51:06. | :51:09. | |
to do that. Tata Steel has been completely focused on doing that. It | :51:10. | :51:14. | |
just needs support to get there. Maybe the new owner will need | :51:15. | :51:19. | |
support. It also made clear that we need shorter and more integrated | :51:20. | :51:23. | |
supply chains. That is because of issues relating to quality and | :51:24. | :51:30. | |
safety. Our steel industry delivers that, aerospace, Airbus and Boeing | :51:31. | :51:38. | |
know they need those integrated short supply chains. They get | :51:39. | :51:42. | |
nervous if they are disrupted. That's why we need to maintain | :51:43. | :51:46. | |
confidence and I: the government to play its part by doing whatever it | :51:47. | :51:56. | |
can, whatever it needs to do to save our steel. -- I call on the | :51:57. | :52:02. | |
government. Steel is a huge part of the economy in my hometown Newport | :52:03. | :52:08. | |
and my first job was in part of British Steel and I'm declaring an | :52:09. | :52:13. | |
interest as British steel pensioner, but I'm not sure how much that will | :52:14. | :52:17. | |
be worth after this. Other members have spoken well and I think it | :52:18. | :52:23. | |
was... I've forgotten who was, it was the member for Hartlepool who | :52:24. | :52:27. | |
made the point about the fundamental problem here, which is the vast | :52:28. | :52:31. | |
amount of steel that has been coming into the marketplace since about | :52:32. | :52:35. | |
2008 from China and the fact the demand for it isn't fair. In | :52:36. | :52:39. | |
reality, I think the gentleman made the point that nobody can do | :52:40. | :52:42. | |
anything about that problem, but there are certainly think the | :52:43. | :52:47. | |
government could be doing to help. Tata Steel was losing around ?1 | :52:48. | :52:55. | |
million a day if you weeks ago. And there are things the government | :52:56. | :52:58. | |
could be doing. And I'm you not think they are doing enough. I will | :52:59. | :53:03. | |
not abandon my words today. One of the problems we have is that there | :53:04. | :53:07. | |
has been a lack of consistency on all sides of the house. We need to | :53:08. | :53:13. | |
ask ourselves whether or not we need to have heavy manufacturing | :53:14. | :53:17. | |
industries in this country. -- we want to have. I think the answer is | :53:18. | :53:22. | |
yes, but if that is the case, then we have to ask, why is it that over | :53:23. | :53:31. | |
the last few years, governments have all enacted policies that have made | :53:32. | :53:36. | |
it much harder for heavy industry to continue? They have swallowed the | :53:37. | :53:40. | |
idea that carbon dioxide is a pollutant, which is causing runaway | :53:41. | :53:44. | |
global warming and they have enacted a series of policies that have made | :53:45. | :53:48. | |
it very expensive for any industry that emits CO2 and have made it very | :53:49. | :53:54. | |
expensive for heavy manufacturers to buy energy. We have brought in new | :53:55. | :54:00. | |
measures and we now have the highest energy costs within Europe. This is | :54:01. | :54:05. | |
a point that was being made to us in the committee by both manufacturers | :54:06. | :54:10. | |
and the unions. It may not resolve the fundamental question, but it | :54:11. | :54:15. | |
could make the difference between a profitable industry or not. It may | :54:16. | :54:18. | |
make the difference for a company like Tata Steel. | :54:19. | :54:24. | |
It is very important that we think about things in a consistent | :54:25. | :54:33. | |
fashion. I have two, to be quite honest, I do not buy the argument | :54:34. | :54:36. | |
that carbon dioxide is causing runaway global warming. I have | :54:37. | :54:42. | |
spoken about it before but the correlation between the very tiny | :54:43. | :54:45. | |
increase in temperature that we have simply does not exist and therefore | :54:46. | :54:49. | |
I think the Government needs to rethink their policy. What we have | :54:50. | :54:54. | |
actually had is a situation where instead of deciding to get rid of | :54:55. | :54:57. | |
the carbon taxes that have helped to create the problem in the first | :54:58. | :55:01. | |
place, carbon taxes and energy taxes that have been supported by | :55:02. | :55:05. | |
governments and MPs of all parties, may I say, instead of doing that, | :55:06. | :55:08. | |
the Government have brought forward a compensation package. It is all | :55:09. | :55:12. | |
right as far as it goes. It had to go through a bureaucratic | :55:13. | :55:14. | |
steeplechase within the EU which members on all sides also support | :55:15. | :55:19. | |
and which I certainly do not. Having got there in the end and with the | :55:20. | :55:25. | |
first checks going out as we speak, what have we actually done? We have | :55:26. | :55:29. | |
levied a huge tax on an industry and now we are going to give something | :55:30. | :55:33. | |
back to them the taxes are having the exact impact that we thought it | :55:34. | :55:36. | |
would have, which is to punish them. Surely it would be much more | :55:37. | :55:41. | |
sensible and I put this to the honourable lady, to scrap the carbon | :55:42. | :55:45. | |
taxes in the first place? There is not much point in having a tax if | :55:46. | :55:48. | |
one is going to have to compensate people for the effect that that | :55:49. | :55:56. | |
taxes having. I will give way. He is making a very powerful speech. Could | :55:57. | :55:59. | |
he explain how our industry is supposed to compete with those on | :56:00. | :56:05. | |
the continentals when the energy price is up to twice of what we -- | :56:06. | :56:11. | |
of what they pay? I think the honourable gentleman makes a very | :56:12. | :56:16. | |
important point indeed but of course if people truly believe that carbon | :56:17. | :56:20. | |
dioxide is a pollutant and is causing runaway global warming, then | :56:21. | :56:22. | |
I suppose they should stand up and take a bow and explain to those | :56:23. | :56:26. | |
steelworkers that's the price of losing their job is worse -- is | :56:27. | :56:31. | |
worth paying in order to stop the minute amount of increase in | :56:32. | :56:36. | |
temperatures that we have and we're not at any increase in temperature | :56:37. | :56:39. | |
for about 17 years and I think the whole thing is absolute nonsense. I | :56:40. | :56:42. | |
think what we should be saying is that of course we want heavy | :56:43. | :56:46. | |
manufacturing industries in this country and it is not the steel that | :56:47. | :56:49. | |
is threatened and it is not just Tata Steel because the honourable | :56:50. | :56:52. | |
lady will be aware that another steel manufacturer in South Wales | :56:53. | :56:56. | |
have said that they may face severe economic problems unless something | :56:57. | :57:04. | |
is done about high energy prices. The head of liberty house has said | :57:05. | :57:08. | |
that we had to scrap the high energy price. It is glass, it is chemicals, | :57:09. | :57:13. | |
it is cement, it is all sorts heavy manufacturing industries. If people | :57:14. | :57:18. | |
believe that these industries are polluting the atmosphere and causing | :57:19. | :57:21. | |
a great increase in temperature that we have not seen any evidence of for | :57:22. | :57:25. | |
17 years, then they are doing exactly the right thing. I think | :57:26. | :57:28. | |
that all of them including the Government are doing the wrong thing | :57:29. | :57:31. | |
and it is high time that we stop trying to tax our manufacturing | :57:32. | :57:35. | |
industries, stop taking tax away from companies that could be | :57:36. | :57:39. | |
profitable and handing them over to expensive wind farms generating | :57:40. | :57:42. | |
validity at two or three times the cost of market rates, particularly | :57:43. | :57:45. | |
when those same went for companies are not even willing to buy steel | :57:46. | :57:49. | |
this country and import the whole thing. The honourable lady in | :57:50. | :57:53. | |
committee described the policy as barmy, and I think she was right | :57:54. | :57:56. | |
although I think she was probably been far too polite about it. I do | :57:57. | :58:01. | |
not have any problem at all with carbon dioxide being emitted. I want | :58:02. | :58:04. | |
to see a heavy Manufacturing industry in this company. I want to | :58:05. | :58:12. | |
see lots of jobs, low taxation and I am personally relaxed about carbon | :58:13. | :58:16. | |
dioxide emissions. This is not just about the obvious news stories | :58:17. | :58:23. | |
running on Port Talbot or indeed the industry. It involves all of the | :58:24. | :58:35. | |
various sites. It is a UK steel crisis and I want to reiterate today | :58:36. | :58:39. | |
that Tata Steel has to behave like a responsible seller. We need to | :58:40. | :58:47. | |
remind them that previous managers tried to use skulduggery. We don't | :58:48. | :58:54. | |
solve that problem but it took over two years, to use where there was | :58:55. | :58:59. | |
not one single redundancy, but we need to remind Tata Steel of that | :59:00. | :59:03. | |
previous behaviour and not to see it happen again. British Steel is not a | :59:04. | :59:08. | |
basket case. It is not a field industry. It is not a sunset | :59:09. | :59:11. | |
industry. It is a very successful industry and the evidence recently | :59:12. | :59:20. | |
shows that. Integral parts to any programme or Trident renewal. This | :59:21. | :59:35. | |
many steel plants in France have been sold off to Greybull. This | :59:36. | :59:43. | |
demonstrates the European aspect of this problem. British Steel has | :59:44. | :59:56. | |
always relied on its quality, its research and development. Places | :59:57. | :00:03. | |
like Teesside and Grangetown down in rather and Sheffield 's have | :00:04. | :00:12. | |
capacity linked with blast furnaces which gives us the ability as a | :00:13. | :00:15. | |
nation do have control over the destiny of the metallurgy in our | :00:16. | :00:20. | |
nation which means that we can innovate new products and that has | :00:21. | :00:24. | |
to be remembered and retained and what I am interested in is the | :00:25. | :00:31. | |
notion of co-investment. Whether that be in cash terms, whether it be | :00:32. | :00:36. | |
equity stake, whether it be a loan, or more importantly whether it be | :00:37. | :00:41. | |
about Government policy or indeed research and development, and I | :00:42. | :00:44. | |
think if we are going to have a real discussion in this place we have to | :00:45. | :00:47. | |
look at the different options around co-investment. Not taking into | :00:48. | :00:53. | |
account individual commercial parties that may be interested in | :00:54. | :00:56. | |
purchasing but the ideas on the tables or that we can naturally plan | :00:57. | :00:59. | |
and industrial strategy about forward planning and win it takes is | :01:00. | :01:02. | |
because we have not done that in the last five years. In relation to | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
Chinese dumping, this is a new phenomenon. It has been going on for | :01:08. | :01:11. | |
four and a half years. Prior to that, it was not happening. That is | :01:12. | :01:17. | |
why changes to how Government behaves in relation to lesser duty | :01:18. | :01:21. | |
tariffs or other legislation has to happen now because the circumstances | :01:22. | :01:27. | |
are now particular and have changed. They are completely new. There are | :01:28. | :01:32. | |
no residents. This is why we cannot stick to rigid dogma or analytical | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
argument around the rules. I also have to question in relation to | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
co-investment whether we are properly looking at things like | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
shale gas and whether parties are being honesty about the policy of | :01:45. | :01:47. | |
shale gas because these are gas intensive industries. CCS pulled the | :01:48. | :02:00. | |
rug from under me energy intensive industries. How are you going to | :02:01. | :02:07. | |
maintain those industries, whether it be shale or light or class or | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
cement or bricks, how are you going to do that without a proper strategy | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
around carbon? If you're going to implement the taxes or unilaterally | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
bring in the carbon price form in the budget and promise to give | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
compensation for, that has to go to the EU because it needs to calculate | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
the fact that if it wants to compensate for unilateral British | :02:30. | :02:32. | |
tax it can only do so by the European Union. It has not done the | :02:33. | :02:38. | |
requisite work. It just applied a rule and is now reaping the | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
consequences. Ultimately, for Port Talbot and for every single site, we | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
need time. Redcar in 2010 was saved over two years. Guess if I had six | :02:48. | :02:57. | |
weeks and failed. You have to give those British Tata Steel sites time | :02:58. | :03:04. | |
in order to be saved. -- SSI. On the issue of time. And co-investment. | :03:05. | :03:14. | |
One form of co-investment would be the Government to provide a bridging | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
loan that extends beyond the period that Tata Steel would be prepared to | :03:20. | :03:23. | |
subsidise the steelworks until a future buyer would be found. Is that | :03:24. | :03:26. | |
the sort of co-investment that he is considering? I thank the honourable | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
gentleman his intervention and giving me more time. Another pillar | :03:32. | :03:40. | |
of this in much the same way is continued production. If we are | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
going to save the site is, production has to be held | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
continuously throughout. Mainly around issues about losing skills | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
and the Redcar example in 2010 when the then regional development agency | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
of the North East alongside Government agencies in Whitehall but | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
forward a ?60 million package which was actually from the budgeted for | :04:04. | :04:06. | |
the regional development agency as well as central Government and | :04:07. | :04:09. | |
actually retained people in the area on training courses whilst, as I was | :04:10. | :04:16. | |
a union officer then worked trying to negotiate with other parties to | :04:17. | :04:22. | |
get outside box and it is vitally important that continuous production | :04:23. | :04:30. | |
and time but also other elements of co-investment not just the cash | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
allowance. Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I'm very grateful for the | :04:36. | :04:41. | |
opportunity to speak in this extremely important debate. Can I | :04:42. | :04:44. | |
begin by thanking the Secretary of State and his team for keeping the | :04:45. | :04:47. | |
house informed and in particular for continuous contact with myself and | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
other members and for the extremely constructive way that the Government | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
has worked this far? And quite rightly closely with the unions and | :04:58. | :05:00. | |
other parties and certainly I have two congratulate the community union | :05:01. | :05:07. | |
when they gave evidence to the Welsh committee it was very impressive | :05:08. | :05:11. | |
indeed and those representatives that were here yesterday and I am | :05:12. | :05:14. | |
pleased that the Government has kept in contact to ensure that everybody | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
has been kept informed at every stage because this is about | :05:19. | :05:25. | |
livelihoods and as someone who grew up in the area, I recognise the | :05:26. | :05:32. | |
importance to the families in my constituency, not just the steel | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
industry, also the supply chain and the stockholders and indeed the | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
maintenance companies that look after the steelworks in Port Talbot. | :05:40. | :05:44. | |
There was a very interesting announcement from the Government | :05:45. | :05:49. | |
yesterday about the buyer which highlights the Government's | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
commitment to the people who work at Port Talbot. This, however, was | :05:54. | :05:56. | |
helping to ensure the survival of the steelworks demonstrates the need | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
to work on a vast number of issues, many of which have been mentioned | :06:01. | :06:03. | |
today and in the last week to ensure a viable, long-term future for the | :06:04. | :06:08. | |
industry. It is crucial that we work here in this chamber as parties | :06:09. | :06:11. | |
working alongside one another and going a lot beyond party politics to | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
ensure the survival of steel at Port Talbot and I would like to discuss | :06:17. | :06:23. | |
briefly this. These are areas that we need to look at as part of our | :06:24. | :06:28. | |
long-term strategy will stop that is the use of British Steel and into | :06:29. | :06:31. | |
such a project and I know there are rules and guidelines on this but we | :06:32. | :06:33. | |
must think strategically about our use of steel. The increased | :06:34. | :06:40. | |
investment in infrastructure by this Government means that British Steel | :06:41. | :06:42. | |
has had more opportunities to be used and therefore support workers, | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
their families, and our communities, and examples include the National | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
rail which uses 90% of British Steel and Crossrail. Aircraft carriers | :06:53. | :07:01. | |
procured by the Government, as we have heard, use something like 94% | :07:02. | :07:08. | |
of British Steel and of course the electrocution of the real down to | :07:09. | :07:16. | |
Swansea -- rail. We need to make sure that our investment - very | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
closely with the use of British Steel and I was extremely pleased | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
when this Government and my right honourable friend the Chancellor of | :07:26. | :07:27. | |
the Exchequer said at the national infrastructure commission which | :07:28. | :07:29. | |
gives this country the interest of two to support future economic | :07:30. | :07:35. | |
growth. However, I do ask whether the commission will be looking to | :07:36. | :07:40. | |
examine how projects could make use of British materials such as steel | :07:41. | :07:43. | |
in supporting these vital industries. It is infrastructure | :07:44. | :07:48. | |
projects that support local families, businesses and | :07:49. | :07:51. | |
communities. From the copy shop to the hairdressers and the Bakers, | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
businesses across South Wales and particularly the South Swansea Bay | :07:57. | :07:58. | |
region are concerned about their future. We need to look at a | :07:59. | :08:03. | |
long-term solution to keep this industry viable for South Wales. A | :08:04. | :08:06. | |
joint strategy that supports the economic growth of the region could | :08:07. | :08:10. | |
be looking at projects like the Swansea Bay lagoon which would not | :08:11. | :08:13. | |
only add jobs but it would be the type of infrastructure project that | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
would continue to support those workers and their families just | :08:19. | :08:21. | |
across the bay in Port Talbot. We must work together. Political | :08:22. | :08:27. | |
grandstanding will not provide a long-term, viable future for steel | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
production in Port Talbot. Political grandstanding will not support | :08:32. | :08:34. | |
businesses in the supply chain across South Wales. The history of | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
steel in our communities runs deeper than a political point scoring. It | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
causes confusion and only last week I spoke with a lady from Citylink | :08:44. | :08:47. | |
who was a Tata Steel employee and as is her husband and both were | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
disappointed by the political rhetoric from certain quarters. | :08:53. | :08:56. | |
We have a shared history and experience. Our communities and | :08:57. | :09:03. | |
social fabric have been built or touched by the steel industry. Only | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
by working as one can we provide a future we all want. Politicians who | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
grandstand, in attempting to ingratiate themselves will not help. | :09:15. | :09:22. | |
We need action. I applaud the actions to date and I look forward | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
to a very positive outcome for the people of Port Talbot and many | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
employees who reside in my constituency. They came as no | :09:32. | :09:39. | |
supplies to us on these benches. We have been warning the government for | :09:40. | :09:44. | |
months this was coming, but they chose to do nothing. The Secretary | :09:45. | :09:47. | |
of State was on the other side of the world when the announcement came | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
and now clings to the announcement came and now clings to be claim that | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
he somehow saved a plant from Australia. Too little, too late, as | :09:56. | :10:00. | |
the workers at Redcar found out from this government and as my friend on | :10:01. | :10:08. | |
the front bench has said, warm words and no actions. This now affects the | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
whole of the industry, not only Port Talbot. The media has a habit of | :10:13. | :10:20. | |
describing it all as "Loss-making. " For a loss of the plants, that is | :10:21. | :10:29. | |
far from the truth. Shotton steel is a profitable business that employs | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
800 people, quality jobs that are vital to the economy. Profitable | :10:35. | :10:41. | |
though it may be, that does not ensures long-term survival. It | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
relies on its steel from the Port Talbot operation. If it was to close | :10:47. | :10:50. | |
sooner rather than later, then it would not be long before Shotton | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
would have had to cease its operation, due to lack of supply. | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
The idea that you can just pick up the phone and buy lots of cheap | :11:01. | :11:07. | |
steel, from China or anywhere else, to the quality and quantity you | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
would need for a plantlike Shotton is far from reality. So for the | :11:13. | :11:18. | |
future, point I made yesterday was we need time and a lot of it and I | :11:19. | :11:21. | |
think this is a common theme that colleagues on both sides of this | :11:22. | :11:26. | |
house are saying. Time to either find a buyer for the whole of the UK | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
business that will invest and commit to the future, but also to allow the | :11:32. | :11:38. | |
downstream businesses to find an alternative supplier of steel, | :11:39. | :11:42. | |
should the worst happen. I do not want to see that, but the government | :11:43. | :11:47. | |
has to plan for all scenarios. And, as many other colleagues have said, | :11:48. | :11:54. | |
we had to reassure the customer base as well. If that is not done, we | :11:55. | :12:00. | |
have no business is to sell, because customers will leave and will walk | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
away. They need assurances. Shotton probably more than anywhere else | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
knows the impact of job losses in industry. In 1980, despite gallant | :12:09. | :12:14. | |
efforts of my predecessors and the trade unions, it saw its steel | :12:15. | :12:20. | |
making cease and over 6000 people lost their jobs. At the time, it was | :12:21. | :12:26. | |
the largest job loss at a single plant in a single day anywhere in | :12:27. | :12:32. | |
the history of western Europe. While the area has recovered and new | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
employees have moved in and have grown, the scars of the events of | :12:37. | :12:42. | |
1980 remain. On Deeside, nearly everybody has a family member or a | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
friend who worked in the industry. Some people never worked again. The | :12:48. | :12:54. | |
lessons are that such large-scale job losses do not only affect the | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
individuals that work there, they affect their families and the whole | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
area. They destroy whole communities. And that's for many | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
years to come. The government has an opportunity to save the industry and | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
ensure its long-term future, but he really needs to act and needs to act | :13:13. | :13:25. | |
now. -- it needs to act. We happy to important debate on this afternoon. | :13:26. | :13:32. | |
As a steel group member, I am pleased that my friend has been able | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
to secure this debate is now. But I wanted to gently reassure anybody | :13:38. | :13:47. | |
going to campaign for the latest debate, that it will be a very long | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
day for those who have travelled to get here. -- you will get your say. | :13:52. | :13:58. | |
I know this feels like groundhog day, coming back time and time | :13:59. | :14:05. | |
again. I understand the focus has been an Port Talbot and I praise the | :14:06. | :14:12. | |
efforts of members, but it has been said before. Steel-making have | :14:13. | :14:21. | |
seized in 2001 in Llanwern. Our steelworkers are proud to make UK | :14:22. | :14:26. | |
steel and they want to continue to do so and are looking to this | :14:27. | :14:29. | |
government is now to ensure that will happen. It has taken a | :14:30. | :14:35. | |
cumulative hit over the past few years, hundreds of jobs being lost, | :14:36. | :14:42. | |
to the point where we have 700 left. Some have transferred to Port Talbot | :14:43. | :14:45. | |
in the process and now have a certainty there. -- now face | :14:46. | :14:56. | |
uncertainty. Steel could have a great future. In Llanwern, we have | :14:57. | :15:05. | |
the Zodiac line. It is doing well and the electrical steel, which | :15:06. | :15:09. | |
produces high-tech electrical steel, they are in profit following a | :15:10. | :15:15. | |
period of restructuring. Steel is cyclical and all of this | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
demonstrates that. We have had much in the way of warm words and phrases | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
and that has been said today. But what does that mean, practically? | :15:26. | :15:33. | |
The arguments from unions are well rehearsed. They want to protect the | :15:34. | :15:44. | |
order book to make sure businesses are saleable. And they are not | :15:45. | :15:48. | |
undermined by any businesses elsewhere. Time for the sale, as the | :15:49. | :15:54. | |
member mentioned earlier on, it's important to know what the timescale | :15:55. | :15:59. | |
is. Long projects took nine months. Tata Steel said for months. The -- | :16:00. | :16:11. | |
what is the news to make sure Tata Steel are a responsible seller? I | :16:12. | :16:15. | |
have many workers in my constituency and also pensioners. Can the | :16:16. | :16:19. | |
government give those pensioners and future ones some reassurance about | :16:20. | :16:24. | |
the pension fund and can he outlined the action the government is taking? | :16:25. | :16:36. | |
Also relating to Chinese dumping, it is ironic that whilst ours has been | :16:37. | :16:42. | |
slow to react, the Chinese government has just enforced 46% | :16:43. | :16:47. | |
tariffs on electrical steel. While all works no longer export to China, | :16:48. | :16:56. | |
other ones do. This could have implications. We have asked for | :16:57. | :17:00. | |
action on energy prices, that took two years to deliver. Too slow. Real | :17:01. | :17:08. | |
action on procurement, not just an owned by this note, what specific | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
projects does the Minister have in mind? Can he tell us that today? The | :17:13. | :17:18. | |
Welsh government has done all it can with the leaflet it has had at its | :17:19. | :17:26. | |
disposal. That includes setting up task forces. I know how valuable | :17:27. | :17:34. | |
that relationship is. There was some kind of reference to grandstanding. | :17:35. | :17:40. | |
Can I assure that many steel group members here have raised the issue | :17:41. | :17:44. | |
to do with steel time and time again in this chamber. It is not | :17:45. | :17:48. | |
grandstanding, it is actually personal. It is personal, because | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
our constituents are loyal and they work hard and we understand what | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
they are going through and it is a valued job. It is also personal | :17:58. | :18:03. | |
because I look around this chamber and icy the member for Cardiff West | :18:04. | :18:14. | |
and others who works in the industry. -- I see. And my parents | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
who met in the steel industry and they were workers. We cannot let our | :18:21. | :18:24. | |
current workers down and we make no apology for speaking up. Thank you. | :18:25. | :18:34. | |
And thank you to those who manage to get this permission. I am a member | :18:35. | :18:43. | |
of... Or was a member of the Scottish steel task force, along | :18:44. | :18:52. | |
with the member for Hamilton. He Scottish skill task force was a | :18:53. | :18:57. | |
partnership of Tata Steel and trade unions and others. -- the Scottish | :18:58. | :19:11. | |
scale task force. This task force was put together by the Scottish | :19:12. | :19:20. | |
Government to help find a buyer for Scottish plants. It did a great job, | :19:21. | :19:26. | |
as those of you may know. The handover took place on Friday. That | :19:27. | :19:31. | |
was based on a back-to-back agreement, whereby the Scottish | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
Government bought the plants from Tata Steel and sold them on to | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
Liberty House. It was a wonderful day. We were surrounded by all the | :19:41. | :19:46. | |
members of the task force and families and friends and | :19:47. | :19:50. | |
steelworkers themselves. It was an emotional day. Steel is an iconic | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
industry in my constituency. In fact, the industry in my | :19:55. | :19:59. | |
constituency is responsible for some of the most specialised steel that | :20:00. | :20:04. | |
is used in the defence industry, in the oil and gas industry as well. It | :20:05. | :20:10. | |
couldn't be allowed to go under and the Scottish Government didn't allow | :20:11. | :20:16. | |
that to happen. It took a very proactive approach to the threat. | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
They did. They put forward legislation which introduced a | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
one-year relief on business rates for prospective buyers. The assessor | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
agreed to look at the state of the steel industry when revaluation | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
takes place next year. The Scottish environment protection agency worked | :20:37. | :20:40. | |
closely to make sure that any prospective buyer or anyone who is | :20:41. | :20:44. | |
interested but the best possible advice. Sufficiently and quickly as | :20:45. | :20:50. | |
well. The Scottish Government has also produced a new responsible | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
procurement policy, echoing and better ring in some instances that | :20:56. | :21:03. | |
has been done by the UK Government. -- in some circumstances. On energy | :21:04. | :21:11. | |
costs, it is working to reduce consumption and cost. We were | :21:12. | :21:19. | |
pleased that the EU cleared the energy package in December last | :21:20. | :21:23. | |
year. That was after this government has prodded into action by the UK | :21:24. | :21:32. | |
steel summit. Development Scotland developed a programme to retain key | :21:33. | :21:38. | |
staff. Those were the very people who were there on Friday. Sanjeev | :21:39. | :21:45. | |
Gupta of Liberty Steel said that the transfer of ownership couldn't have | :21:46. | :21:49. | |
happened without the efforts of the Scottish Government. He has also | :21:50. | :21:55. | |
indicated that 150 jobs will be created to get the plants back up | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
and running again. Almost back to where we were. The UK Government | :22:00. | :22:05. | |
cannot rely on helping workers after the event. It is their duty to be | :22:06. | :22:11. | |
proactive, to be seen to be proactive in securing buyers for | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
affected plants, following the Scottish Government model. Scottish | :22:16. | :22:20. | |
Government phoned prospective buyers, kept in touch with the | :22:21. | :22:28. | |
customer base and at the same time maintained business confidentiality. | :22:29. | :22:30. | |
They can do it, you should be able to do it as well. The Scottish | :22:31. | :22:37. | |
Government has also launched a manufacturing strategy only | :22:38. | :22:43. | |
contemporary of this year. It proposes to boost the Scottish | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
economy by investment and education in order for Scotland's business to | :22:49. | :22:56. | |
compete globally. What are you doing in that regard? Finally, can I give | :22:57. | :23:01. | |
a piece of advice to the Secretary of State? Speak to the Scottish | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
Government to see how saving plants can be done, using actions, not | :23:07. | :23:11. | |
words. As the First Minister said, the steps we have taken in | :23:12. | :23:15. | |
Lanarkshire should give hope to those in other parts of the UK that, | :23:16. | :23:22. | |
with the right support and a strong government, there can be a future | :23:23. | :23:24. | |
for steel. There have always been the strongest | :23:25. | :23:34. | |
links between my constituency and the steelworks at Newport and I | :23:35. | :23:41. | |
speak today not only for the steelworkers but the many, many more | :23:42. | :23:45. | |
steel pensioners including my father. But I echo what was said by | :23:46. | :23:55. | |
my honourable friend the member for stocks bridge that the steel | :23:56. | :23:58. | |
industry can and should have a great future. There are so many great | :23:59. | :24:03. | |
things about our steel industry. It has always been an industry of | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
working together, of working together between workers, | :24:08. | :24:11. | |
management, unions, and owners. It is an industry that has some of the | :24:12. | :24:17. | |
most skilled and committed workers you will find in any industry | :24:18. | :24:24. | |
anywhere you go in the world. Mr Speaker, it is also an industry that | :24:25. | :24:30. | |
I believe is vital to our national security. We cannot have a country | :24:31. | :24:34. | |
that is secure unless it has a native steel industry available to | :24:35. | :24:39. | |
us. We should not forget either that over many, many years of change, the | :24:40. | :24:45. | |
steelworkers have been a constant. It is an industry that has gone | :24:46. | :24:49. | |
through change. It was nationalised after World War II, most of it was | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
re-privatised in the early 1950s, renationalise the game by the Wilson | :24:55. | :24:58. | |
Government in the 60s, re-privatised again under the Thatcher Government, | :24:59. | :25:02. | |
but the steelworkers have always shown their central commitment and | :25:03. | :25:06. | |
demonstrated their skills during that time. It is unthinkable that | :25:07. | :25:13. | |
there should be no steel-making at Port Talbot, just as it is | :25:14. | :25:17. | |
unthinkable that we should not look at this as a UK wide problem. It | :25:18. | :25:23. | |
seems to me that the Government has to look strategically at two things. | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
First of all of what it is doing practically to support the sale | :25:29. | :25:32. | |
process at Port Talbot. What it can do to support both aspects that we | :25:33. | :25:38. | |
are now coming to, the expressions of interest and the due diligence | :25:39. | :25:42. | |
period that will follow. But there are far wider questions about the | :25:43. | :25:48. | |
Government being judged on its actions for what it actually does to | :25:49. | :25:54. | |
help the steel industry. The lesser duty rule has been mentioned in | :25:55. | :26:00. | |
number of times in this debate. Let's be clear. As long as it is in | :26:01. | :26:05. | |
place, the duty that is going to be imposed is always going to be lower | :26:06. | :26:08. | |
than the margin of the dumping. The European Commission wants to scrap | :26:09. | :26:14. | |
the lesser duty rule. The World Trade Organisation rules do not even | :26:15. | :26:20. | |
oblige the European Commission to apply the lesser duty rule. It is | :26:21. | :26:27. | |
for the UK Government to make the case within the European Union for | :26:28. | :26:31. | |
it to be scrapped, but of course the fact is that they are not doing it. | :26:32. | :26:34. | |
The European steel Association spokesman said the fact is that the | :26:35. | :26:41. | |
UK has been blocking us. They are not the only member state, but they | :26:42. | :26:45. | |
are certainly the ringleader in blocking the lifting of the lesser | :26:46. | :26:50. | |
duty rule. The ability to let this has actually been part of a proposal | :26:51. | :26:55. | |
that the European Commission looked at in 2013. What has the Secretary | :26:56. | :27:00. | |
of State done on this sense? The answer is absolutely nothing. There | :27:01. | :27:04. | |
is then the issue of market economy status for China, and I thought that | :27:05. | :27:09. | |
the chief executive of the biggest steel-maker in America put it best | :27:10. | :27:17. | |
when he said this. But even the thinking of the granting of market | :27:18. | :27:21. | |
economy status for China when you have all the evidence in place that | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
denies them that right, it is just ridiculous. That is what the | :27:27. | :27:29. | |
Secretary of State should be bearing in mind. Because he really does have | :27:30. | :27:36. | |
a choice, Madam Deputy is bigger. Particularly when it comes to the | :27:37. | :27:39. | |
lesser duty rule, when it comes to market economy status for China. | :27:40. | :27:45. | |
Where do his loyalties lie? Do they lie with Beijing or do they lie with | :27:46. | :27:50. | |
the steelworkers of this country? Wouldn't it be the most supreme | :27:51. | :27:54. | |
irony if we had a Secretary of State supposedly wedded ideological 82 | :27:55. | :27:57. | |
free market who ends up granting market economy status to a country | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
where 80% of its steel industry is owned by the state? Is that | :28:03. | :28:07. | |
seriously what the Secretary of State is going to do? It is time he | :28:08. | :28:14. | |
put aside the obsession with Beijing and acted for our steelworkers. I am | :28:15. | :28:23. | |
grateful to my honourable friend for securing this debate. We on Teesside | :28:24. | :28:26. | |
are still reeling from the Government standing by and allowing | :28:27. | :28:31. | |
steel-making to die at the SSI plant at Redcar and people have very long | :28:32. | :28:36. | |
memories and it will take more than six months to discover the concept | :28:37. | :28:40. | |
of co-investment and it comes a little bit late but I do welcome the | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
initiative in progressing those discussions from the unions to such | :28:46. | :28:50. | |
a successful conclusion. This is the most bizarre set of circumstances | :28:51. | :28:53. | |
when we are feeling the collapse of steel production in UK when we have | :28:54. | :28:58. | |
the superb industry with a brilliantly skilled workforce, and | :28:59. | :29:02. | |
excellent industrial relations history and it is therefore | :29:03. | :29:04. | |
essential that we send the message up from here that we have a steel | :29:05. | :29:07. | |
industry very much worth fighting for. We need to instil confidence in | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
steel customers and suppliers like our steel operations are very much | :29:13. | :29:18. | |
open for business. Steel had a bright future if we can get through | :29:19. | :29:21. | |
these months. On that point of development goal -- I am grateful to | :29:22. | :29:29. | |
the metals processing Institute for pointing out that two thirds of the | :29:30. | :29:35. | |
steel being used today was not even invented 15 years ago and still | :29:36. | :29:40. | |
remains a vital economic enabler for UK economic growth, without which | :29:41. | :29:44. | |
our successful, high-value manufacturing sector simply could | :29:45. | :29:48. | |
not exist. The automotive and aerospace defence, nuclear and real | :29:49. | :29:51. | |
sectors all need the development of new steel in pursuit of ever | :29:52. | :29:56. | |
improving productivity and our leading companies undoubtedly | :29:57. | :29:59. | |
benefit from research partnerships with domestic steel producers. It | :30:00. | :30:06. | |
goes on to say that the steel industry would disappear for ever | :30:07. | :30:09. | |
and reliance on overseas producers would not only mean the loss of jobs | :30:10. | :30:13. | |
but would also slow the pace of development and risk the offshore of | :30:14. | :30:26. | |
the steel in history. The debate is more about Port Talbot. Even though | :30:27. | :30:30. | |
that is very important. There is an overwhelmingly strong case for the | :30:31. | :30:33. | |
continuation of steel-making at Port Talbot because they have advanced | :30:34. | :30:38. | |
steel-making equipment, and experienced workforce and experience | :30:39. | :30:42. | |
in making high-quality steel for Manufacturing applications. There is | :30:43. | :30:45. | |
no doubt on these benches that the plant can compete and have a highly | :30:46. | :30:48. | |
profitable future, but in addition there is a huge opportunity for new | :30:49. | :30:54. | |
mini mill operations based around electric furnaces, utilising 100% | :30:55. | :30:57. | |
recyclable materials and offering a change in improvement in carbon | :30:58. | :31:04. | |
emissions are likely that the Government to consider all aspects | :31:05. | :31:09. | |
of the future of UK steel. The exploitation and the commitment to | :31:10. | :31:12. | |
innovation, research and development will undoubtedly pay rich dividends. | :31:13. | :31:17. | |
There is a research and development proposal on the table and it will | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
also average recently secured future investments would have been used to | :31:22. | :31:27. | |
upgrade materials in Rotherham, set and Cambridge as well as the two | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
sites in Tees Valley and I urge the Minister to look closely at it. The | :31:32. | :31:34. | |
automated industry has been turned round to be an enormous success. We | :31:35. | :31:38. | |
can do the same for the steel industry. So the timescale is | :31:39. | :31:43. | |
crucial here. It is ridiculously tight. The kind of thing that could | :31:44. | :31:49. | |
be said would be that the seller is being incredibly ambitious to think | :31:50. | :31:52. | |
that such a process can be undertaken in such a short space of | :31:53. | :31:57. | |
time. And crucially in the final analysis, the state would indeed | :31:58. | :32:04. | |
step in and whether we call this temporary nationalisation or public | :32:05. | :32:08. | |
sector stewardship or whatever you like, that would let the customers | :32:09. | :32:12. | |
and suppliers and workers know that UK steel will sustain and not only | :32:13. | :32:22. | |
will it sustain but it will thrive. In the middle of 2014, Tata Steel | :32:23. | :32:27. | |
announced that it was going to dispose of its long products | :32:28. | :32:32. | |
business. It has taken until this week for the conclusion of a process | :32:33. | :32:35. | |
which has involved the interest of one buyer then pulling out and the | :32:36. | :32:42. | |
work that everybody has done locally, trade unions, the | :32:43. | :32:46. | |
management team, Tata Steel themselves, Greybull capital and | :32:47. | :32:49. | |
suppliers. Suppliers have had to make a contribution in this as well. | :32:50. | :32:53. | |
It is a tough direction forward. It is not completed yet and I welcome | :32:54. | :32:58. | |
the Secretary of State's statement yesterday when he said that he would | :32:59. | :33:02. | |
do everything possible to ensure that the matter is that still need | :33:03. | :33:06. | |
to be resolved are resolved satisfactorily saw that this does go | :33:07. | :33:09. | |
ahead and the future, which I believe will be a positive future, | :33:10. | :33:13. | |
but will be different to the past, can happen which will be positive | :33:14. | :33:20. | |
for all those communities across long products including those in | :33:21. | :33:24. | |
Scunthorpe, the largest steelworks in England, which I am proud to | :33:25. | :33:28. | |
represent. Of course, when the Secretary of State was first | :33:29. | :33:31. | |
appointed to his rule, I wrote to him then because I knew the steel | :33:32. | :33:36. | |
industry was facing a crisis, and I asked the meeting. Unfortunately, at | :33:37. | :33:39. | |
that time, there were other pressures on his diary, though I did | :33:40. | :33:43. | |
ask the Prime Minister back in September for a steel summit. | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
Eyebrows raised on the benches opposite at that time, but to the | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
credit of them, and the Secretary of State, we did get a steel summit in | :33:53. | :33:56. | |
Rotherham and that did help in terms of focusing focusing on this issue | :33:57. | :34:00. | |
but looking at the issues we have been arguing and I have been arguing | :34:01. | :34:06. | |
for four or five years now on energy costs. Yes, the Government has | :34:07. | :34:09. | |
moved, but it has been slow and laborious. And frankly, when you | :34:10. | :34:14. | |
bring in the unilateral carbon for attacks and then find yourself in a | :34:15. | :34:17. | |
mess in taking it off, and it has taken over three years and the money | :34:18. | :34:21. | |
is only just getting in terms of mitigation into the coffers of | :34:22. | :34:24. | |
steelworkers, that does not give the of message of confidence that we | :34:25. | :34:29. | |
need to take this industry forward, but I welcome the Secretary of | :34:30. | :34:32. | |
State's comments again today when he says he is looking at different ways | :34:33. | :34:37. | |
of doing this by doing it by exemption rather than by the methods | :34:38. | :34:41. | |
that are done at the moment so we are seeing movement and that | :34:42. | :34:43. | |
movement needs to be welcomed. On business rates, it is deeply | :34:44. | :34:49. | |
disappointing that the Chancellor was unable to bring us some good | :34:50. | :34:52. | |
news in terms of movements on business rates and I believe that | :34:53. | :34:55. | |
the Minister opposite has been fighting their corner on that by | :34:56. | :35:00. | |
listening to the words that they have said many speeches, it is | :35:01. | :35:03. | |
deeply disappointing that the Government at the highest level was | :35:04. | :35:06. | |
unable to make a bit on that because that would have made a real | :35:07. | :35:11. | |
difference. It is a difference when a larger plant in the Netherlands | :35:12. | :35:15. | |
pays less business rates and the Scunthorpe plant days. That is not | :35:16. | :35:21. | |
right. These are playing fields need to be levelled. On procurement, I | :35:22. | :35:27. | |
very much welcome the Government producing these better guidelines, | :35:28. | :35:30. | |
but as I have said all along, the proof of the pudding is in the | :35:31. | :35:33. | |
eating. It is when these are tested. I point again to the issue of things | :35:34. | :35:42. | |
like the energy developments of the Hornsey Project on the North Sea. | :35:43. | :35:45. | |
This is happening because of the contract, the very generous | :35:46. | :35:49. | |
contract, which the UK Government has given to this private sector | :35:50. | :35:54. | |
company will stop so there is public money invested in this and frankly | :35:55. | :35:57. | |
the energy company -- the energy coming out of that development will | :35:58. | :36:01. | |
be paid for by UK taxpayers and UK energy bill payers. It would be | :36:02. | :36:08. | |
outrageous, Madam Deputy Speaker, if it is not UK steel that is in those | :36:09. | :36:16. | |
turbines that go up in the North Sea and I urge the Secretary of State to | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
work tirelessly with his Cabinet colleagues to ensure that even where | :36:22. | :36:28. | |
there are private companies who are delivering public projects, that | :36:29. | :36:30. | |
they deliver for our steel industry in procurements. Finally, on Chinese | :36:31. | :36:35. | |
dumping, much has been said. This is an area where I think the Secretary | :36:36. | :36:41. | |
of State has moved and I welcome that. Again, it has been very slow. | :36:42. | :36:46. | |
We have seen action and that action is to be approved. You'd hear from | :36:47. | :36:56. | |
the whole steel community saying how important it is that the lesser duty | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
rule is tackled and that would give a signal in terms of confidence. | :37:01. | :37:04. | |
What this industry needs going forward more than anything else is | :37:05. | :37:08. | |
confidence will stop not that we are just getting warm words but these | :37:09. | :37:12. | |
warm words are supported by actions and actions that are prompts, not | :37:13. | :37:21. | |
lacquered Lee. Save our steel. Whilst I thank the Shadow Business | :37:22. | :37:25. | |
Secretary for securing this emergency debate today, I find | :37:26. | :37:28. | |
myself asking how many times exactly are we going to have to debate the | :37:29. | :37:34. | |
crisis facing the steel industry in the UK. Before the Government take | :37:35. | :37:40. | |
it seriously. This crisis is not recently arrived unannounced. It has | :37:41. | :37:44. | |
not sprung up overnight. The warning signs were there. There has been a | :37:45. | :37:48. | |
constant siren of opposition voices for warning the Government that | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
action was urgently needed. The steel industry has been collectively | :37:53. | :37:57. | |
crying out for action to be taken. The all-party parliamentary group, | :37:58. | :38:01. | |
of which I am a member, have made countless representations to the | :38:02. | :38:04. | |
Government. We have been spelling out exactly what action needs to be | :38:05. | :38:08. | |
taken. Whilst the Government have jumped into action recently it is | :38:09. | :38:13. | |
unfortunately still not going far enough. We are yet to see meaningful | :38:14. | :38:19. | |
action on dumping. The steadfast opposition to scrapping the lesser | :38:20. | :38:22. | |
duty rule has meant that little can be done to stem the flow of cheap | :38:23. | :38:26. | |
Chinese imports. The Government have not only been reticent, they have | :38:27. | :38:32. | |
apparently been leading the charge on a European level, actively | :38:33. | :38:36. | |
blocking this action being taken. The UK Government is guilty of | :38:37. | :38:38. | |
negligence when it comes to the approach it has taken on the dumping | :38:39. | :38:42. | |
of cheap steel on world markets by China. Whilst the UK is bending over | :38:43. | :38:51. | |
backwards to accommodate beeswing's -- Beijing's request for market | :38:52. | :38:55. | |
economy status, our industry is suffering. What has just happened in | :38:56. | :39:00. | |
Scotland is testament to how a proactive governments, working | :39:01. | :39:05. | |
closely with industry, unions and the workers themselves, can protect | :39:06. | :39:08. | |
jobs and safeguard this vital industry. It is crucial now for the | :39:09. | :39:13. | |
UK Government to follow that example. And make a similar | :39:14. | :39:17. | |
concerted effort to save steel plants in England and Wales. They | :39:18. | :39:23. | |
must work cooperatively with the EU on anti-dumping measures. We need to | :39:24. | :39:27. | |
see a credible strategy, not just first deal, but for ceramics and all | :39:28. | :39:31. | |
other energy intensive and heavy industry in the UK. Make no mistake, | :39:32. | :39:36. | |
the industry in Scotland still faces challenges, but the diligence of the | :39:37. | :39:40. | |
Government in Scotland in saving it has given a renewed confidence that | :39:41. | :39:46. | |
still has a bright future there. On these benches, we stand in | :39:47. | :39:49. | |
solidarity with steelworkers in England and Wales. Despite all of | :39:50. | :39:54. | |
the warning signs, I want to see a bright future for steel right across | :39:55. | :39:58. | |
Britain, not just north of the border. In order for that to happen, | :39:59. | :40:02. | |
we need to see a complete change of tax on the Business Minister. | :40:03. | :40:10. | |
Throughout the crisis, the SNP has consistently called for a | :40:11. | :40:12. | |
comprehensive and advised industrial strategy for heavy industry in the | :40:13. | :40:13. | |
UK. Within it, the SNP spelt out how | :40:14. | :40:28. | |
steel is a vital and strategic asset in the Scottish economy. Although | :40:29. | :40:33. | |
this might seem a common-sense approach, its visionary by | :40:34. | :40:37. | |
comparison and to Westminster strategy or lack thereof. There are | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
many workers who attended last Friday's handing over. As well as | :40:43. | :40:54. | |
many of the union wraps, there was a sense of relief, optimism and | :40:55. | :40:58. | |
renewed hope. It was palpable. Beneath all of that, there is a | :40:59. | :41:03. | |
resilience. Call it a steely determination if you will. This is | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
an old industry which has learned to adapt too many changes over the | :41:09. | :41:14. | |
years. As Charles Stalin said, "It's not the strongest of the species | :41:15. | :41:18. | |
that survives, nor the most intelligent, it is the one which is | :41:19. | :41:24. | |
most adaptable to change." The steel industry is up to the challenge and | :41:25. | :41:26. | |
the government needs to step forward. -- Charles Darwin said. I | :41:27. | :41:33. | |
want to see a successful and productive future for all beastie | :41:34. | :41:36. | |
workers throughout the UK and I really do hope the government is | :41:37. | :41:42. | |
listening today and will leave no stone unturned to save our steel and | :41:43. | :41:48. | |
highly skilled and are located steelworkers a positive future that | :41:49. | :41:57. | |
they truly deserve. -- highly skilled steelworkers. Thank you. I | :41:58. | :42:08. | |
want to praise the work of the First Minister Carwyn Jones, working to | :42:09. | :42:13. | |
try to find a solution. He has been speaking out on that, alongside so | :42:14. | :42:18. | |
many others and I am proud to have him as our First Minister. I really | :42:19. | :42:25. | |
wanted to underline the point that the steel industry in this country | :42:26. | :42:29. | |
has a future. And that it has a future at the heart of our | :42:30. | :42:32. | |
construction projects and defence projects in the future. -- | :42:33. | :42:40. | |
infrastructure projects. I am proud that the steel produced in my | :42:41. | :42:45. | |
constituency is at the heart of Crossrail and semi-construction and | :42:46. | :42:48. | |
infrastructure projects. We must never lose sight of that. It is an | :42:49. | :42:53. | |
industry of the future if the government gets behind it. I wanted | :42:54. | :42:58. | |
to touch on three issues. Whatever the welcome announcements about | :42:59. | :43:07. | |
Scunthorpe and maybe Port Talbot, we need to address the fundamental | :43:08. | :43:11. | |
point that have brought us to this and will continue to affect the | :43:12. | :43:16. | |
steel industry. I want to flag up some of the strategic risks we face | :43:17. | :43:22. | |
and get rid of some of the myths that have been propagated about the | :43:23. | :43:26. | |
European Union's role in this. Firstly, energy. It is at the heart | :43:27. | :43:31. | |
of the debate. We see the highest prices across the UK. -- across the | :43:32. | :43:38. | |
EU. And the fact is, whatever the nonsense we hear about the EU being | :43:39. | :43:45. | |
to blame, for the main policies causing these prices have come from | :43:46. | :43:49. | |
the UK Government. I welcome the steps that have been talked about, | :43:50. | :43:55. | |
exemptions and compensation, but they have come from the UK | :43:56. | :43:59. | |
Government. Unlike the member for Monmouth, who says we shouldn't be | :44:00. | :44:03. | |
doing anything about climate change, that is not the issue. If we end up | :44:04. | :44:10. | |
off shoring these issues, it would be an absolutely absurd situation. I | :44:11. | :44:14. | |
would argue they continue to review and look at every aspect and to see | :44:15. | :44:21. | |
what is the net result in the end. Are they paying more or less? If | :44:22. | :44:27. | |
they are not paying less, we will face this problem again. It's all | :44:28. | :44:31. | |
very well talking about the compensation, but the reality is | :44:32. | :44:36. | |
that in my constituency a few days ago, they still haven't received the | :44:37. | :44:41. | |
money. The government has been slow. We have heard some very powerful | :44:42. | :44:44. | |
arguments made about the lesser duty rule. I would reiterate the question | :44:45. | :44:52. | |
I made earlier on. We need to look, are those still high enough? I know | :44:53. | :44:58. | |
he said it has gone down by 99% and we need to keep it under review. We | :44:59. | :45:05. | |
have also heard about the market economy status. I agree we shouldn't | :45:06. | :45:12. | |
be granting that to China. And also procurement, we have got to see | :45:13. | :45:15. | |
concrete steps. I was pleased to hear what the secretary said, but | :45:16. | :45:21. | |
this should have been coming a long time ago. We have produced products | :45:22. | :45:27. | |
without using UK steel. What about the offshore patrol vessels and | :45:28. | :45:32. | |
tankers? Those have not been produced using fully UK steel. We | :45:33. | :45:36. | |
need to make sure it is UK steel being used. It's not just the role | :45:37. | :45:42. | |
of the government, it's also about this construction companies. I have | :45:43. | :45:48. | |
written to them, asking them, are they going to use UK steel? Are they | :45:49. | :45:57. | |
going to be adhering to the standard, to use high-quality | :45:58. | :46:03. | |
British steel? I do worry that, unless we address these issues, | :46:04. | :46:05. | |
unless we maintain diversity of production, of different products, | :46:06. | :46:17. | |
that we will lose capacity. Others will come then, like the Chinese, | :46:18. | :46:23. | |
and put their prices up. Also on the EU, it is not the EU to blame. It | :46:24. | :46:30. | |
would be absurd if we dealt it another body blow to leave the EU. | :46:31. | :46:37. | |
Half of our exports go there. State aid rules apply as well. We have | :46:38. | :46:42. | |
less capacity to act on dumping without others. The EU has brought | :46:43. | :46:49. | |
in 37 measures, six of which have been on China. It is this government | :46:50. | :46:54. | |
that hasn't done the work. We can save steel, but only if we work | :46:55. | :47:02. | |
together to do it. Port Talbot has been an industrial jewel in the | :47:03. | :47:07. | |
crown of Swansea Bay. Thousands of people and many more beyond in the | :47:08. | :47:11. | |
communities rely on it. And we are looking towards the government to | :47:12. | :47:15. | |
support the steel industry in the time of need. The Welsh government | :47:16. | :47:20. | |
has come forward and taken leadership. We want to see some on | :47:21. | :47:28. | |
the pensions. I am not here to criticise Tata Steel at all. They | :47:29. | :47:34. | |
invested millions of pounds to buy it. And more to cover losses. They | :47:35. | :47:43. | |
have spent 185 million on new blast furnace in 2013. The reality is that | :47:44. | :47:48. | |
steel production has doubled because of Chinese production. And then | :47:49. | :47:51. | |
world prices have halved, so we're now in a situation where they cannot | :47:52. | :47:57. | |
sustain the competitive threat with China, which is 80% state owned and | :47:58. | :48:01. | |
we need to hold on and do what we can to make sure there is a | :48:02. | :48:05. | |
sustainable future. China are thinking strategically, through | :48:06. | :48:12. | |
getting in with lower prices with HS2, nuclear and buying globally. We | :48:13. | :48:19. | |
need to understand what they are trying to do and ensure that our | :48:20. | :48:25. | |
long-term interests are sustained. At Swansea University, we are | :48:26. | :48:29. | |
investing in new types of steel, multilayered steel, so it has a | :48:30. | :48:35. | |
negative carbon footprint and it is clad over major public buildings. We | :48:36. | :48:42. | |
have high quality coal as well. I want to see guarantees from the | :48:43. | :48:47. | |
secretary of state who is talking their about co-investment. What are | :48:48. | :48:52. | |
we going to have and we go to have an equity share from the government | :48:53. | :48:55. | |
in the short term? What guarantees can we get about a more level | :48:56. | :48:59. | |
playing field? Should it be the case... Yes, I will. Would he agree | :49:00. | :49:07. | |
that the government could see the current threat to the UK steel | :49:08. | :49:11. | |
industry also as an opportunity to change the way we do things, so the | :49:12. | :49:16. | |
structure can be established to protect the steel industry for many | :49:17. | :49:20. | |
years to come? Can they look to another sector like the care sector | :49:21. | :49:24. | |
and other parts of the world to learn from other models of delivery, | :49:25. | :49:35. | |
including private sector investment? I do need to look creatively | :49:36. | :49:40. | |
accompany structure and how they engage with procurement. We also | :49:41. | :49:45. | |
need to look at the process of displacing clean steel for dirty | :49:46. | :49:50. | |
steel and that there is a case to look at carbon tariffs. -- we do | :49:51. | :49:55. | |
need. We share common environments. In terms of procurement, one member | :49:56. | :50:00. | |
made clear we do need to know who the government are talking to and | :50:01. | :50:04. | |
what reassurances have been given. I they said it is commercially | :50:05. | :50:08. | |
confidential, but what people consuming steels want to know is | :50:09. | :50:14. | |
that if they make an order now, will it be delivered at that price in a | :50:15. | :50:18. | |
year? We need to give those guarantees to secure futures. We | :50:19. | :50:25. | |
need to hold our nerve. The reality is cash flow sustenance. The | :50:26. | :50:35. | |
government need to look at financial packages, whereby the cash flow of | :50:36. | :50:39. | |
the business can be sustained on the back of future orders at known | :50:40. | :50:45. | |
prices. We have already mentioned that half of our exports go to | :50:46. | :50:51. | |
Europe and it will be a complete disaster for us to believe, in terms | :50:52. | :50:56. | |
of extra tariffs, and it's important that we do move forward through the | :50:57. | :51:00. | |
referendum period so that there is security for prospective buyers, if | :51:01. | :51:05. | |
we are still in the single market without tariffs imposed. Our first | :51:06. | :51:14. | |
duty is to secure the livelihoods of our communities, as well as our | :51:15. | :51:18. | |
strategic interests. It is important that the government comes forward | :51:19. | :51:21. | |
and doesn't simply give the impression it has given that it | :51:22. | :51:29. | |
wants a buyer, but once any benefits . Once any benefits. If there will | :51:30. | :51:37. | |
be any pension buyouts, if there is going to be co-investment, that | :51:38. | :51:43. | |
should be available for Tata as well as others. They did show they were | :51:44. | :51:48. | |
there for the long run. As the government has shown they are not, | :51:49. | :51:52. | |
they have pulled out. We want a sustainable future and it is | :51:53. | :51:56. | |
important that Tata Steel are brought back around the table, as | :51:57. | :52:00. | |
well as other prospective buyers. I am sorry. We are running out of | :52:01. | :52:05. | |
time. I had to reduce the limit to four minutes. Yesterday, the | :52:06. | :52:13. | |
secretary of state pledged his commitment to the steel industry. I | :52:14. | :52:16. | |
would like to ask him to spell out why the government is willing to | :52:17. | :52:22. | |
consider co-investment for Port Talbot, when it ruled it out for | :52:23. | :52:29. | |
Redcar. At the time, it said state aid rules prevented it. And then | :52:30. | :52:32. | |
they said it was because they refused to put British tax money | :52:33. | :52:42. | |
into Thai banks. Why was that? It could have enabled mothballing or a | :52:43. | :52:47. | |
sale. I would like to ask for a full explanation. S S I asked for a loan | :52:48. | :52:54. | |
to enable a restructure. They were refused. I sat down with ministers | :52:55. | :53:01. | |
and potential investors. The company were willing to run or mothball, but | :53:02. | :53:10. | |
didn't want government money. What has changed and does he now regrets | :53:11. | :53:17. | |
not listening to us? We have seen the cost of hearts closure has been | :53:18. | :53:22. | |
far greater than intervention would have been. I want to say something | :53:23. | :53:24. | |
about that cost. Firstly, the economic cost. 2000 | :53:25. | :53:35. | |
jobs lost at SSI. Over 900 jobs lost in the immediate supply chain. From | :53:36. | :53:41. | |
those who provided the parts and the maintenance to those who cleaned the | :53:42. | :53:44. | |
overalls and fed the workforce, plus there is no way of measuring the | :53:45. | :53:49. | |
knock-on impact on the local shops, hairdressers, builders, nurses, | :53:50. | :53:53. | |
childminders. We know they are all feeling the pain but unemployment | :53:54. | :54:02. | |
has jumped 162%. We now have the 10th highest unemployment rate in | :54:03. | :54:05. | |
the country. Secondly, I want to say something | :54:06. | :54:20. | |
about the cost to the Exchequer and the state. It is currently | :54:21. | :54:24. | |
understood that the Government is paying over ?200,000 per week to | :54:25. | :54:27. | |
maintain the site in it's on the cover of the coma status. Recovery | :54:28. | :54:33. | |
of the lands is expected to cost the state well over ?1 billion. For the | :54:34. | :54:39. | |
British steel industry, we have lost your's second largest blast furnace | :54:40. | :54:48. | |
-- Europe's. Will she agree with me that the lands of the one point ?1 | :54:49. | :55:01. | |
billion issue and the remuneration of it. I want to hear further | :55:02. | :55:08. | |
commitment from the Government that they come -- they are committed to | :55:09. | :55:16. | |
maintaining that site. For the British steel industry itself, we | :55:17. | :55:24. | |
have lost our blast furnace, expensive national assets belonging | :55:25. | :55:28. | |
to the rigid steel industry now laid to waste. Add to this the ?50 | :55:29. | :55:37. | |
million that has been paid into retraining. A further ?30 million | :55:38. | :55:41. | |
for redundancies and other costs and bear in mind the majority of workers | :55:42. | :55:46. | |
are still awaiting the award of their protective award and I will be | :55:47. | :55:51. | |
grateful for an update on this. A loss to the council who are already | :55:52. | :55:55. | |
suffered ?90 million losses after years of Tory austerity. Thirdly, I | :55:56. | :56:05. | |
want to speak about the human cost. 600 workers are back in work or | :56:06. | :56:10. | |
full-time training according to DWP figures and I pay tribute to them | :56:11. | :56:15. | |
and to all of those who are working so hard to achieve that but 600 out | :56:16. | :56:20. | |
of 3000 workers six months after closure still leaves a lot of work | :56:21. | :56:25. | |
to do. What about the thousands of others? They are signing on, many | :56:26. | :56:28. | |
for the first time in their lives. Many are coming up to the six months | :56:29. | :56:34. | |
cut off rate so those who have a partner with an income of more than | :56:35. | :56:38. | |
?114 per week will soon be losing their job seekers allowance | :56:39. | :56:41. | |
completely. People are moving out of their homes and reliant on hardship | :56:42. | :56:46. | |
funds to pay their bills. One worker who can no longer to look after his | :56:47. | :56:51. | |
house can no longer have his children to stay with him. There has | :56:52. | :56:55. | |
been a huge effect on families and relationships. A loss of identity, | :56:56. | :56:58. | |
of comradeship, and a pride in a skilled trade. Redcar has seen an | :56:59. | :57:04. | |
increase in 91% in mental health referrals in the past year. They are | :57:05. | :57:08. | |
doing a fantastic job and we have many of those who are under the | :57:09. | :57:12. | |
radar, one who has not even left the house since he lost his job last | :57:13. | :57:17. | |
September. Families destroyed and lies shattered. Our town has been to | :57:18. | :57:21. | |
a tragedy. The cost is far higher than intervention would have been. I | :57:22. | :57:25. | |
say to this today, you let us last year. -- you let us down last year. | :57:26. | :57:40. | |
I would like to thank for being allowed to speak in this debate and | :57:41. | :57:46. | |
Adam was also like -- and I would also like to thank my honourable | :57:47. | :57:51. | |
friend for securing such a debate because indeed the steel industry is | :57:52. | :57:55. | |
in crisis and it is important that it gets a serious discussion and | :57:56. | :58:00. | |
consideration. I am sure everyone in this house is keen to do all steps | :58:01. | :58:06. | |
necessary to secure the steel industry in our country. Today, we | :58:07. | :58:13. | |
have herds a number of options put forward on energy, business tariffs | :58:14. | :58:19. | |
and various other options, but what I would like to talk about is | :58:20. | :58:25. | |
defence. The last Labour Government had an industrial defence strategy. | :58:26. | :58:30. | |
Right in the heart of that strategy was British jobs and the first | :58:31. | :58:39. | |
priority in all decisions was that the MOD. Perhaps that is something | :58:40. | :58:43. | |
the Government should consider implementing in this time of crisis | :58:44. | :58:51. | |
in the steel industry. I believe that whenever and wherever possible, | :58:52. | :58:56. | |
British steel should be used to build equipment, weapons, vehicles | :58:57. | :59:02. | |
and things that our Armed Forces need to keep us safe. Sadly, the | :59:03. | :59:13. | |
Government abandoned the industrial defence strategy. And of course, we | :59:14. | :59:17. | |
can see the implications of that decision today. Because we have | :59:18. | :59:26. | |
three new ships for the Royal Navy being built in Glasgow. 60% of steel | :59:27. | :59:31. | |
from Sweden, 20% from other countries, and only 20% from the UK. | :59:32. | :59:38. | |
We have a 3.4 billion contract to build 590 armoured vehicles, also | :59:39. | :59:46. | |
using Swedish imports for the majority of the steel requirements. | :59:47. | :59:53. | |
The Minister has also refused to guarantee that the Navy's new | :59:54. | :59:58. | |
frigate will be built using British Steel. The defence minister will | :59:59. | :00:05. | |
only say they have an opportunity. Madam Deputy Speaker, this paints a | :00:06. | :00:09. | |
picture of a Government that is willing to talk the talk but not | :00:10. | :00:19. | |
walk the walk. The MOD has a budget of ?178 billion for defence | :00:20. | :00:22. | |
equipment over the next ten years and Labour will continue to press | :00:23. | :00:27. | |
that that money is spent where possible securing British jobs and | :00:28. | :00:39. | |
for British steel. Perhaps the Minister would like to listen | :00:40. | :00:45. | |
because two avoid a fire sale, Government must demonstrate to all | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
stakeholders within the industry that it is taking a proactive | :00:50. | :00:55. | |
approach to ensuring the continued observations. -- operations. You | :00:56. | :01:01. | |
must look at reversing the decision to scrap the defence industrial | :01:02. | :01:04. | |
strategy. You must make a public statement with haste to say that | :01:05. | :01:13. | |
this Government believe it is supporting British Steel and British | :01:14. | :01:21. | |
jobs. I am pleased to take part in this important debate. I am | :01:22. | :01:24. | |
delighted that the speaker was granted its application. As a son of | :01:25. | :01:31. | |
a Teesside, I am a regular visitor to seaside and to Redcar. I was | :01:32. | :01:37. | |
there only a few weeks ago and to see the sight of that plant, now | :01:38. | :01:45. | |
empty and derelict after 175 years of steel-making is shocking and my | :01:46. | :01:55. | |
thoughts are with the constituents in Redcar and the surrounding | :01:56. | :02:01. | |
constituencies in Teesside but of course the 3000 jobs as people have | :02:02. | :02:04. | |
said and many more thousands of jobs, lives were affected and what a | :02:05. | :02:11. | |
shame that we have not seen the kind of very slow action from the | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
Government then to try to prevent that that we are at least finally | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
seen today but what a contrast that has already been raised by the | :02:20. | :02:24. | |
honourable gentleman, the member for Hartlepool just down the road, | :02:25. | :02:27. | |
between the industrial strategy of the previous Business Secretary, the | :02:28. | :02:33. | |
internationally respected Vince Cable, who was seeking to ensure | :02:34. | :02:40. | |
that we could maintain our existing industry and also seeking to | :02:41. | :02:43. | |
transition to new technologies, something that is entirely lacking | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
from this Business Secretary and he was so proud to say that there is | :02:49. | :02:51. | |
now a conservative Business Secretary but he simply does not | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
have an industrial strategy for the UK at all. And what an extraordinary | :02:56. | :03:00. | |
situation. We have a Conservative Party preaching free trade and yet | :03:01. | :03:05. | |
rolling out the red carpet and seeking to do sweetheart deals with | :03:06. | :03:10. | |
the communist nation with a subsidised basket case of our | :03:11. | :03:16. | |
industry that is producing steel that no one in the world needs or | :03:17. | :03:19. | |
wants that is wrecking a perfectly viable situation. Now, I quote. This | :03:20. | :03:24. | |
is an interesting quote and it says Redcar has already paid the price | :03:25. | :03:31. | |
for its free-trade ideology and Port Talbot is about to follow. There | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
will eventually be little left if the current drift in trade policy is | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
allowed to continue. Who said that? Was it Jerry make organ? Was it the | :03:41. | :03:46. | |
leader of the Liberal Democrats or the SNP? No, it was the | :03:47. | :03:49. | |
international business editor of the Daily Telegraph. -- was it Jeremy | :03:50. | :03:56. | |
Corbyn? That is the mark of a Government that has turned its back | :03:57. | :04:02. | |
on steel. All he is prepared to do is say, can you make a little bit | :04:03. | :04:08. | |
less steel, please? That is because of his desperation to call the | :04:09. | :04:14. | |
Chinese over the Hinckley power plant. They will still be producing | :04:15. | :04:21. | |
far more than the world needs and will do devastation. Only six months | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
ago, at the same time as we had in action from this Government, the | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
Liberal Democrats called for ministers to set up a Minister led | :04:30. | :04:35. | |
group looking across the whole of the steel industry so we could have | :04:36. | :04:38. | |
a strategy to save this great British industry, and yet the | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
Government ignored that and failed to act and now what we are seeing | :04:44. | :04:47. | |
today is not leadership, it is panic and it is acting too little, too | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
late. So ministers must now do at least what they can to reverse this. | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
They must keep the Port Talbot plant operational while a buyer is found. | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
They must be a little less arrogant and listen and learn some of the | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
lessons from the past including what Vince Cable did when he went to GM | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
motors and that was to make sure we do have the steel industry going | :05:12. | :05:18. | |
forward to support the UK economy. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker and | :05:19. | :05:21. | |
yet again we have had another very good debate on the steel industry | :05:22. | :05:24. | |
with lots of contributions from the backbenches. I think I counted 21 | :05:25. | :05:28. | |
contributions in our short debate from the backbenches. | :05:29. | :05:45. | |
I think it has been an excellent debate. I would also like to pay | :05:46. | :05:52. | |
tribute to the community trade union and also to Carwyn Jones, the Welsh | :05:53. | :05:58. | |
First Minister, who has been mentioned during the course of the | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
debate and my honourable friend the Shadow Secretary of State for Wales | :06:04. | :06:06. | |
on our side to do for her efforts on this issue. Madam Deputy Speaker, | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
our role as Her Majesty's opposition is to hold the Government was likely | :06:11. | :06:14. | |
to be fire on this issue. Let's be clear about that because our | :06:15. | :06:17. | |
industry has to have a future. We have to make sure that the UK steel | :06:18. | :06:20. | |
industry has a future at all and we are having to do this because the | :06:21. | :06:29. | |
new Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, straight | :06:30. | :06:30. | |
after the general election, signalled quite clearly and quite | :06:31. | :06:33. | |
overtly that he was not going to continue the consensus that we have | :06:34. | :06:35. | |
had for the last decade that has been emerging and growing about the | :06:36. | :06:45. | |
need for a UK industrial strategy. The UK industrial strategy. I wonder | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
if the new Secretary of State for Wales wants to learn that his job is | :06:51. | :06:53. | |
to sit there and shut up and listen during this debate? The UK... Order, | :06:54. | :07:04. | |
order! Let us stay calm. The honourable gentleman may wish to | :07:05. | :07:13. | |
rephrase what he has just said. I think the new Secretary of State | :07:14. | :07:16. | |
needs to sit there in silence and listen on this very important issue | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
that affects Wales in particular which is his responsibility. The UK | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
needs an active industrial, modern strategy which understands the | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
importance of foundation industries like the steel industry to rebalance | :07:30. | :07:36. | |
our economy. I understand that the Secretary of State for business, | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
coming from a city backgrounds and with a professed laissez faire | :07:42. | :07:51. | |
policy does not want to use this strategy, but he is wrong about | :07:52. | :07:59. | |
that. I worked in steel for six months, my father worked there for | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
over 20 years, so I do not need questions about my background from | :08:05. | :08:07. | |
the Secretary of State for Wales who cannot sit there and shut up and | :08:08. | :08:10. | |
listen to the debate as he should be doing on part of his constituents | :08:11. | :08:16. | |
for Wales. I understand why the Secretary of State for Business, | :08:17. | :08:18. | |
Innovation and Skills does not want to use the term industrial strategy, | :08:19. | :08:23. | |
but I am afraid he is wrong not to do so because unless the Government | :08:24. | :08:26. | |
is prepared to strategically support British industry, the Chancellor | :08:27. | :08:36. | |
when he says March of the makers will suddenly become a death of the | :08:37. | :08:39. | |
makers in this country. We're not going to stand by and let that | :08:40. | :08:42. | |
happen which is why we believe there is a future for the steel industry | :08:43. | :08:46. | |
in this country. Not to steel recycling in the United Kingdom, can | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
I say that? We need to hear a commitment that he is committed to | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
steel-making in this country and not just the recycling of steel, | :08:55. | :08:56. | |
important as that is, and we have been asking for months for a clear | :08:57. | :09:02. | |
commitment from the Secretary of State to make clear its view as a | :09:03. | :09:09. | |
Government as to what is the minimum strategic steel-making capacity that | :09:10. | :09:12. | |
it believes must be maintained in the UK's national interest. | :09:13. | :09:26. | |
That doubt at the heart of government is like an impurity in | :09:27. | :09:34. | |
steel if you are pouring it in a steel plant in this country. If you | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
do not get rid of it, it can lead to a disaster and it will be a disaster | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
if the doubt at the heart of the policy will not be got rid of. We | :09:44. | :09:50. | |
need to make sure Port Talbot remains is the opportunity to make | :09:51. | :09:59. | |
use steel remains, not just reuse old steel. That is why it is | :10:00. | :10:05. | |
important is to make an industrial strategy, not an approach, not just | :10:06. | :10:09. | |
a vague warm words. We need leadership and not laxity that is | :10:10. | :10:18. | |
undermining everything. Thank you. Can I begin by paying tribute to all | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
those who have spoken in this debate and make it very clear that | :10:24. | :10:30. | |
everybody that has spoken has spoken quite rightly, with passion in their | :10:31. | :10:34. | |
hearts on behalf of their constituents and on behalf of our | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
great British steel industry. And I just want to make this very | :10:39. | :10:41. | |
important point. It is so important that we do indeed look to the future | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
and make sure that the message alert is sent out from this place is one | :10:47. | :10:52. | |
of confidence in the continuing success of our British steel | :10:53. | :10:57. | |
industry. -- that is sent out. One of the things I have noticed and can | :10:58. | :11:05. | |
I pay tribute to the wise words of the Honourable Lady there, but when | :11:06. | :11:12. | |
I went to Rotherham, I understood speciality steels, which are | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
separate from the great work at Port Talbot. Then I went to Corby, | :11:17. | :11:22. | |
another great day in Corby, meeting excellent workers and management. | :11:23. | :11:27. | |
Very proud of the superb quality of the products, but it was really | :11:28. | :11:30. | |
important that this message of continuing confidence not just for | :11:31. | :11:36. | |
customers, but also for suppliers is something that unites us. And | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
despite the unfortunate remarks of the gentleman, there is much that | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
brings us together on this important matter. We all agree that steel is a | :11:45. | :11:51. | |
vital industry. We agree that this crisis is not confined to the United | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
Kingdom but we'll see should agree that no government, unfortunately, | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
has a magic wand and can control the price of steel. We agree it is a | :12:02. | :12:07. | |
vital industry, not just for the national economy, but because of the | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
important role it plays in local communities for the workers it | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
directly employs and through the supply chain. That is where it is a | :12:17. | :12:23. | |
vital component to the continuing success of that part of our United | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
Kingdom, particularly in Wales. I want to pay tribute to my Secretary | :12:29. | :12:34. | |
of State for his tireless work and his outstanding leadership | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
throughout this crisis. One of the problems that we have has, | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
throughout all the time that we have been in the position is that we have | :12:44. | :12:50. | |
been in, is that so much has been so commercially sensitive and I'm | :12:51. | :12:53. | |
looking forward to the day when it comes that we will actually be | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
able... I will be the first to stand up and say about the sort of work | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
that the Secretary of State has been leading quietly and privately. And I | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
have to say that that work began as soon as we were appointed and, in | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
particular, even before the terrible events in Redcar. The reason why we | :13:12. | :13:19. | |
get on the side of the house so agitated when we have these debates | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
is because we started delivering on the very things that steel | :13:25. | :13:31. | |
industries... Even before we had the tragedy of Redcar. That is why it | :13:32. | :13:36. | |
minister who ignored the advice of her officials and said that this | :13:37. | :13:41. | |
country would vote in favour of tariffs on dumped steel. That is | :13:42. | :13:45. | |
what we did in July and we continue to do that into November. And I want | :13:46. | :13:52. | |
to say about Redcar, the situation was there was very different. Loss | :13:53. | :13:57. | |
and debts, tens of millions of pounds of debt. A company that went | :13:58. | :14:03. | |
bust locally and its parent company in Thailand. The stark contrasts | :14:04. | :14:11. | |
between SSI and Tata Steel. Tata Steel is an excellent and | :14:12. | :14:14. | |
responsible employer. We look forward now to supporting them in | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
all we do to make sure there is a successful sale and successful | :14:20. | :14:24. | |
future for our steel industry. This house has considered the decision to | :14:25. | :14:31. | |
sell its UK operations and the government has taken to secure the | :14:32. | :14:36. | |
future of the UK's steel industry. Vote now. The ayes have it. The ayes | :14:37. | :14:50. | |
have it. We now come to the debate recommended by the backbench | :14:51. | :14:55. | |
business committee on the reform of support arrangements for people | :14:56. | :15:01. | |
infected with contaminated blood. Diana Johnson to move. Thank you. | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
And I rise to move the motion standing in my name and the names of | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
my right honourable and honourable friends. And I first of all thank | :15:11. | :15:14. | |
the backbench business committee for granting the time for this debate | :15:15. | :15:18. | |
today. And this topic was actually the first debate that the backbench | :15:19. | :15:23. | |
business committee scheduled after they had been established in 2010. | :15:24. | :15:27. | |
And it is a very sad fact that six years on we are still fighting for | :15:28. | :15:32. | |
justice for those affected by the contaminated blood scandal. And it | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
was in 2010 and well during the General Election campaign, that my | :15:38. | :15:40. | |
constituent Glenn Wilkinson, with his wife Alison came to see me. And | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
they told me about Glenn having been given infected blood during dental | :15:46. | :15:51. | |
treatment and how it had affected his life and health and his | :15:52. | :15:55. | |
opportunities for work and impacted on his family. And from then on I | :15:56. | :15:58. | |
began to find out about the biggest treatment disaster in the history of | :15:59. | :16:04. | |
the NHS. Very happy to. I'm grateful. Last year, my constituent | :16:05. | :16:17. | |
came to see me in my office. Sadly, he has since passed away and I would | :16:18. | :16:23. | |
like to sincerely thank the lady for her persistence in bringing forward | :16:24. | :16:28. | |
these debates on behalf of his son, James, and his widow, Sally, for | :16:29. | :16:36. | |
Hearst persistence in ensuring this is properly discussed. -- her | :16:37. | :16:42. | |
persistence. I am grateful. I have received many letters from all over | :16:43. | :16:45. | |
the country from families that have been affected. But I do want to just | :16:46. | :16:52. | |
set the scene and comment on the government's proposals we are | :16:53. | :16:54. | |
discussing and I will try and do so fairly briefly to allow many others | :16:55. | :17:01. | |
to speak and talk about their constituents and views. We know that | :17:02. | :17:06. | |
governments of both colours have introduced a patchwork of schemes | :17:07. | :17:10. | |
and assistance over the years, but there has never been a complete | :17:11. | :17:13. | |
package of support for those affected. And this is in marked | :17:14. | :17:20. | |
contrast to other disasters, such as thalidomide, where full support and | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
compensation was put in place. And I am sure the whole house wants to pay | :17:25. | :17:31. | |
tribute to all those who have fought for justice over many years and | :17:32. | :17:34. | |
their families and loved ones who have supported them in doing that. | :17:35. | :17:40. | |
Very happy to. She has mentioned the various schemes that have been put | :17:41. | :17:43. | |
in place, but would she agree with me that the actual process of | :17:44. | :17:48. | |
applying and getting through that is very difficult, particularly for | :17:49. | :17:52. | |
people who are so L? Absolutely. A very important point and I will come | :17:53. | :17:57. | |
onto that. I'm just going to make a bit of progress and then I will take | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
an intervention. I just was paying tribute to those who fought for many | :18:02. | :18:06. | |
years and I think we would agree they have been fighting for too many | :18:07. | :18:13. | |
years to get a fair settlement for what happened to them. And they are | :18:14. | :18:15. | |
weary from fighting. They want to resolve this once and for all and to | :18:16. | :18:19. | |
get on with their lives and, very sadly, more and more people are | :18:20. | :18:23. | |
dying without seeing that justice. And each individual affected has | :18:24. | :18:30. | |
been robbed of many of the opportunities that we all take for | :18:31. | :18:34. | |
granted, to work, to have a career, to buy a home, to grow old with the | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
person that they love. And also family members who have had to care | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
for their loved ones, perhaps giving up careers to do so, and then to | :18:44. | :18:49. | |
watch their loved ones deteriorate. I am happy to take an intervention. | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
She has been tenacious in her pursuit of this issue and this is an | :18:55. | :18:58. | |
issue that has been going on for many years. I have got constituents | :18:59. | :19:01. | |
that have been affected by this and it is about time this was brought | :19:02. | :19:07. | |
out. You mentioned the thalidomide situation, that took many years. | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
That took a determined minister to introduce that. If he could have | :19:12. | :19:14. | |
done that, I cannot see why this minister cannot. I am grateful. I'm | :19:15. | :19:20. | |
just going to make a little bit of progress. I think it is important to | :19:21. | :19:28. | |
recognise that there is never -- has never been an admission by the | :19:29. | :19:33. | |
Department of Health or the NHS for the liability. They have always | :19:34. | :19:37. | |
taken the view that no one could have known about the problem with | :19:38. | :19:41. | |
the infected blood. But I want to make the point that this is not a | :19:42. | :19:46. | |
court of law. This is Parliament and we are being asked to deal with a | :19:47. | :19:50. | |
clear wrong that has been done to our constituents and we know that | :19:51. | :19:56. | |
these people were damaged and harmed by the treatment they received from | :19:57. | :20:00. | |
the NHS by the state. And what we need to do now is put together a | :20:01. | :20:06. | |
proper support package to ensure that those affected and their | :20:07. | :20:10. | |
families are at the heart of what we do and whatever scheme is proposed. | :20:11. | :20:15. | |
I am happy to give way. Thank you. Not least because I have to leave | :20:16. | :20:21. | |
shortly. I commend her for her Stirling work. In my constituent's | :20:22. | :20:30. | |
case, the situation was exactly what she said. The complexity of all the | :20:31. | :20:35. | |
schemes. In his case, because his father died in 1986, before the | :20:36. | :20:40. | |
trust was set up, his mother never received any money at all. That | :20:41. | :20:44. | |
still remains the case today after what has been proposed. That seems | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
very unfair to me. -- Stirling work. I will give way. She has made such | :20:50. | :20:59. | |
great in -- inroads. Will she agree with me that it is completely | :21:00. | :21:03. | |
unacceptable that any reform should make sick people even worse off. One | :21:04. | :21:09. | |
of my constituents will lose ?500 a month. Another one will need to see | :21:10. | :21:15. | |
that justice is being done and he is in the gallery. I agree. Going back | :21:16. | :21:20. | |
to my point about liability and about the need to set in place a | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
proper support package, recognising the wrong that has been done. I | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
think the Department of Health haven't done that for far too long | :21:30. | :21:34. | |
and it appears they are far more interested in protecting the | :21:35. | :21:36. | |
institutional reputation of the Department of Health and the NHS, | :21:37. | :21:41. | |
rather than looking to right a wrong. In the last parliament, there | :21:42. | :21:46. | |
was a concerted effort from all parties to seek a lasting | :21:47. | :21:56. | |
settlement. There was a report produced that showed services were | :21:57. | :22:04. | |
not fit for purpose and another minister worked to finally get an | :22:05. | :22:09. | |
apology made in Parliament and an agreement that the government would | :22:10. | :22:13. | |
consult on a proper support package for those affected and I think the | :22:14. | :22:18. | |
Prime Minister's apology a year ago and the announcement the ?25 million | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
would be made available for transitional support is very | :22:23. | :22:27. | |
welcome. As was the full consultation promise on a package. | :22:28. | :22:32. | |
But I have to say not one penny of that ?25 million has been spent yet. | :22:33. | :22:40. | |
Money that is badly needed by the people affected and the consultation | :22:41. | :22:44. | |
on the new support scheme was only announced on the 21st of January | :22:45. | :22:52. | |
this year, some nine months later after the Prime Minister's | :22:53. | :22:57. | |
statement. I have a constituent here today, like many here, who is in the | :22:58. | :23:03. | |
gallery. Isn't the issue that that consultation doesn't seem to China | :23:04. | :23:07. | |
at all with the apology and that what is on offer in no way seems to | :23:08. | :23:12. | |
reflect what I'm sure was meant as a sincere apology by the Prime | :23:13. | :23:13. | |
Minister? That is an important point and we | :23:14. | :23:21. | |
are now just a feud is away from the end of the consultation period. I | :23:22. | :23:26. | |
understand that the minister was advised, I think wrongly, by | :23:27. | :23:29. | |
officials in the Department of Health, that she could not meet with | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
the all-party group during the consultation period. I know in | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
Scotland that was not the case during their consultation. In fact, | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
the minister met with MS peas and individuals and that is partly why | :23:42. | :23:45. | |
we are here today and why we have called for this debate so that the | :23:46. | :23:48. | |
minister can listen to what her fellow parliamentarians have to say | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
about the Government's proposals and feed this in Sue the consultation. I | :23:53. | :23:57. | |
give way. I thank the honourable member to give way. I have many | :23:58. | :24:02. | |
constituents in Taunton Deane whose lives are blighted by this issue of | :24:03. | :24:06. | |
contaminated blood and whilst I do applaud this consultation that the | :24:07. | :24:09. | |
Government has brought forward, there are many that believe it is | :24:10. | :24:12. | |
only making the situation worse and causing more pain. Not least the | :24:13. | :24:18. | |
fact that in Scotland, people suffering there may get a better | :24:19. | :24:21. | |
deal than those in England so I would urge the Minister to look very | :24:22. | :24:24. | |
carefully at the consultation again so as not to penalise people already | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
badly suffering. I would like to move on to highlight a view of the | :24:30. | :24:34. | |
problems with the consultation that has been set out by the Government. | :24:35. | :24:39. | |
First of all, as has already been said, it seems that many of the | :24:40. | :24:43. | |
existing recipients will receive lower payments from the new revised | :24:44. | :24:49. | |
scheme. The Government's proposals would end all discretionary support | :24:50. | :24:53. | |
such as winter fuel allowance, child supplements, and low income top ups, | :24:54. | :24:56. | |
meaning that many people will potentially lose out by thousands of | :24:57. | :25:04. | |
pounds each year. Secondly, most of the current beneficiaries have | :25:05. | :25:09. | |
hepatitis C stage one and currently gets no support and are left begging | :25:10. | :25:16. | |
for individual payments. The Government's proposal will provide | :25:17. | :25:19. | |
annual payments for people in stage one which I think are welcomed all | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
stop however, they will be subject to regular individual assessments | :25:24. | :25:31. | |
and this could result in fluctuating payments and produce financial | :25:32. | :25:34. | |
uncertainty for individuals. Assessment will only take into | :25:35. | :25:38. | |
account clinical factors. They won't, for example, look at the loss | :25:39. | :25:42. | |
of education or employment or decades of loss of amenity, | :25:43. | :25:47. | |
ill-health and loss of earnings and it seems to me from the information | :25:48. | :25:52. | |
the Government had provided, those assessments are going to cost | :25:53. | :25:58. | |
?500,000 a year to actually undertake. I say wouldn't that money | :25:59. | :26:04. | |
money be better spent to support people financially themselves and to | :26:05. | :26:07. | |
pay for that amount of assessments? I give way. I thank the honourable | :26:08. | :26:14. | |
lady for giving way and thank her on her determination in championing | :26:15. | :26:17. | |
this issue. Would you agree that a further problem with the | :26:18. | :26:19. | |
consultation and she highlighted the decades of ill-health and for many | :26:20. | :26:25. | |
it is emotional distress and trauma, but the consultation process itself | :26:26. | :26:28. | |
has actually for some of those people added to that burden and that | :26:29. | :26:31. | |
is certainly the method I have heard loud and clear from my constituent | :26:32. | :26:35. | |
Mark Webster who came to see me on this issue. I think that is a valid | :26:36. | :26:40. | |
point there. I will proceed with the concerns that I have with the | :26:41. | :26:43. | |
consultation because I do want other members to speak as well in the | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
debate. The third point I want to make is about the inadequate | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
provision for the affected community that is the widows, the partners, | :26:53. | :26:56. | |
and the dependence of those effected. The proposals for windows | :26:57. | :27:01. | |
appear to be extremely complex. The Government's proposals create six | :27:02. | :27:05. | |
categories of window with big variations in what is offered within | :27:06. | :27:09. | |
each category and Department of Health officials could not explain | :27:10. | :27:15. | |
how this will work when they met with the secretariat and have not | :27:16. | :27:18. | |
provided an explanation of these proposals as promised and there | :27:19. | :27:21. | |
appears to be nothing for dependent children. Forcefully,... I have | :27:22. | :27:32. | |
constituents who are infected and I also like constituent's partners who | :27:33. | :27:37. | |
are infected and who now cannot get insurance for themselves and are | :27:38. | :27:41. | |
very worried about the long-term medications. That adds extra stress | :27:42. | :27:48. | |
to what is already a very stressful situation. I think that is a very | :27:49. | :27:54. | |
important point there. So there are concerns that under the plans, money | :27:55. | :27:59. | |
is going to be used to pay for new drugs to treat hepatitis C which | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
will be bought separately from the NHS budget and therefore cost more. | :28:05. | :28:10. | |
Under nice guidelines, everyone with hepatitis C should be eligible for | :28:11. | :28:14. | |
treatment with a new generation of drugs from the end of February 2016, | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
so in allocating funding for treatment, this will gain mean that | :28:20. | :28:23. | |
money is not going directly to those who need financial support. Happy to | :28:24. | :28:31. | |
give way. I wonder if my honourable friend, who is making an excellent | :28:32. | :28:34. | |
speech, will agree with my constituent who is affected, and it | :28:35. | :28:39. | |
really feels that those changes are deliberately punitive and | :28:40. | :28:42. | |
exceedingly cruel in that they are using changes and requests for | :28:43. | :28:45. | |
changes to support schemes to effect people in this way that the person | :28:46. | :28:52. | |
has two years the extra payment to fund the treatment refused by the | :28:53. | :28:58. | |
NHS and many people have had to do that and they will see their annual | :28:59. | :29:01. | |
payment decrease over time and lose the additional support currently | :29:02. | :29:05. | |
provided. People like my constituent are hit again and again and again. | :29:06. | :29:11. | |
How can the reform go-ahead is given that? I'm going to move on and | :29:12. | :29:20. | |
complete what I want to say. A real concern is about the possibility | :29:21. | :29:23. | |
that beneficiaries in England will be worse off than those in Scotland. | :29:24. | :29:27. | |
The Scottish proposals are far more generous to hepatitis C stage two | :29:28. | :29:34. | |
and HIV sufferers, who will receive ?27,000 per annum or ?37,000 if they | :29:35. | :29:42. | |
are currently infected and that is welcome. Their proposals are much | :29:43. | :29:44. | |
less generous for those who have hepatitis C stage one who will | :29:45. | :29:47. | |
receive an additional stage one payment but no ongoing support. | :29:48. | :29:52. | |
However, it is important to note that the Scottish proposals have | :29:53. | :29:55. | |
been broadly welcomed and I think this is partly because of the of the | :29:56. | :29:57. | |
way the consultation has been conducted in Scotland and the clear | :29:58. | :30:00. | |
acknowledgement for example that the existing structure will be scrapped. | :30:01. | :30:06. | |
I am very conscious of time. I think I am already probably getting to my | :30:07. | :30:11. | |
allocated 50 minutes so if members don't mind I'm going to complete | :30:12. | :30:17. | |
this. The other thing I wanted to raise my point about the | :30:18. | :30:20. | |
acknowledgements around the existing cost structures being scrapped, | :30:21. | :30:24. | |
which the Scottish model will do, I want to seek reassurance from the | :30:25. | :30:28. | |
Minister that she intends to scrap the trust structures that exist in | :30:29. | :30:32. | |
England, Wales and Northern Ireland, because they have been subject to | :30:33. | :30:35. | |
much criticism. There is also no mention in the consultation about | :30:36. | :30:39. | |
any proposals around lump-sum payments which would enable those | :30:40. | :30:44. | |
affected to make real choices about their own lives such as paying off a | :30:45. | :30:48. | |
mortgage or clearing debts are helping their children. I want to | :30:49. | :30:53. | |
reiterate my belief that the ?230 million that the Government are set | :30:54. | :30:56. | |
to receive over the next few years from the of plasma resources UK Ltd | :30:57. | :31:03. | |
should be earmarked for lump-sum payments for these people. This is | :31:04. | :31:09. | |
money from the Department of Health creating blood products and it would | :31:10. | :31:13. | |
be fitting to use the money in this way. I am also disappointed with the | :31:14. | :31:17. | |
Government's proposals that there is no mention of those infected to be | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
automatically password it through to the new benefits which are being | :31:22. | :31:27. | |
introduced, for example moving from DLA to PIP. And there is no | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
consideration at all about using the Irish style medical card to ensure | :31:32. | :31:35. | |
that access to health is as speedy as possible. In conclusion, I think | :31:36. | :31:39. | |
we have now had a chance to consider the details of the Government's | :31:40. | :31:44. | |
proposals. I am disappointed and I do not think they deliver what we | :31:45. | :31:47. | |
want them to deliver to get people dignity and to allow them to get on | :31:48. | :31:50. | |
with their lives rather than constantly having to battle to get | :31:51. | :31:54. | |
support. Currently, this means campaigning to ensure their lives do | :31:55. | :31:58. | |
not get any worse let alone see any improvement. They needs and they | :31:59. | :32:02. | |
deserve action in a timely manner. They do not want to end their lives | :32:03. | :32:08. | |
as campaigners. Many of those infected have told me that they | :32:09. | :32:11. | |
believe the Government is just a delay in making a proper settlement | :32:12. | :32:15. | |
and that there are more and more of these people dying and after their | :32:16. | :32:19. | |
long and bitter experience, who can blame them? As the former co-chair | :32:20. | :32:32. | |
of the APPG I will give way. I would like to thank the member for having | :32:33. | :32:35. | |
called chaired the committee. Does she agree with me that the ministry | :32:36. | :32:40. | |
should see that we have a framework with the settlement in Scotland | :32:41. | :32:43. | |
which does need some tweaking and also a very, hence the all-party | :32:44. | :32:47. | |
group report which looked at the way the trust and the funds didn't | :32:48. | :32:50. | |
operate in supporting the victims of this and that if they heed that, | :32:51. | :32:57. | |
experiences in Scotland's, then we can start helping the victims. I | :32:58. | :33:01. | |
think the gentleman speaks with wisdom in this matter. I think it is | :33:02. | :33:05. | |
now time for the biggest treatment disaster in the history of the NHS | :33:06. | :33:10. | |
to be settled once and for all and I hope the Minister will look again at | :33:11. | :33:15. | |
these proposals which he has put out in her consultation and think | :33:16. | :33:17. | |
actually what is in the best interests of this group, who have | :33:18. | :33:20. | |
been so badly treated for so many years. The question is as on the | :33:21. | :33:32. | |
order paper. It is a privilege and an honour to follow the member and | :33:33. | :33:40. | |
may I commend her for her leadership in bringing parliament together on | :33:41. | :33:48. | |
this very important subject. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for | :33:49. | :33:50. | |
allowing me to speak during this important debate about this summer | :33:51. | :33:57. | |
and saddening topic. I speak as a representative of the number of | :33:58. | :34:00. | |
individuals in my constituency whose lives and the lives of those they | :34:01. | :34:04. | |
love have been previously, unfairly, and irreversibly impacted by the | :34:05. | :34:07. | |
terrible injustice we address this afternoon. The infection of | :34:08. | :34:13. | |
individuals with contaminated blood has been apologised for by the Prime | :34:14. | :34:18. | |
Minister on behalf of the Government, an apology which is now | :34:19. | :34:22. | |
more than a -year-olds, Tory scandal that is more than 20 years old. -- | :34:23. | :34:27. | |
for a scandal. When he rightly addressed the matter last year, the | :34:28. | :34:30. | |
Prime Minister said that it was difficult to imagine the feeling of | :34:31. | :34:36. | |
unfairness that those who have been effected must feel. My constituents | :34:37. | :34:39. | |
and others around the country were let down. When they or their family | :34:40. | :34:45. | |
members were at their most vulnerable, they were let down by | :34:46. | :34:49. | |
the health service that was supposed to be there to keep them safe. It | :34:50. | :34:58. | |
truly is difficult to imagine, but I am sorry to say that the feeling of | :34:59. | :35:02. | |
unfairness has not been lessened by the proposals in this consultation. | :35:03. | :35:08. | |
If anything, it has been made worse. Lives have been changed and lives | :35:09. | :35:13. | |
had been taken. So much has been lost that the Government must now | :35:14. | :35:17. | |
focus on lessening and mitigating this loss as much as it can ever do. | :35:18. | :35:25. | |
I will give way. I thank the honourable gentleman for giving way. | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
On the subject of mitigating this loss, I am here to represent several | :35:30. | :35:35. | |
constituents who have an issue with this but one particular one, Andy | :35:36. | :35:37. | |
Gunn, he was extremely concerned by the comments by the Health Secretary | :35:38. | :35:44. | |
that the funding for this might come from the NHS budget. Do you agree | :35:45. | :35:48. | |
that would be highly inappropriate? I thank the honourable member for | :35:49. | :35:52. | |
his intervention. I have had similar representations from my constituents | :35:53. | :35:56. | |
and I hope that the French edge and the Treasury bench actually take on | :35:57. | :36:00. | |
board those comments. -- the front bench. The vastness of this loss we | :36:01. | :36:06. | |
are addressing today is such that even the ideal solution cannot do | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
much to address it. But what has been proposed does so much less. The | :36:11. | :36:18. | |
proposals contained in the consultation are far from what the | :36:19. | :36:21. | |
victims of this injustice is expected were led to believe they | :36:22. | :36:26. | |
would receive. Madam Deputy Speaker, I know many of my colleagues on all | :36:27. | :36:29. | |
sides of the house have similar stories to tell. I have had | :36:30. | :36:33. | |
constituents visit my surgeries who have always been so incredibly | :36:34. | :36:39. | |
strong about what has happened to them and hopeful for the potential | :36:40. | :36:42. | |
of a good settlement from the Government. But have now been left | :36:43. | :36:46. | |
in tears. They feel let down and fear that these proposals will make | :36:47. | :36:51. | |
life even harder for them. These are people whose lives have been tyrant | :36:52. | :36:59. | |
-- have turned out to be radically different than how they had planned | :37:00. | :37:03. | |
them through absolutely no fault of their own. They struggled to get | :37:04. | :37:08. | |
insurance or pensions and have had their careers curtailed. Things we | :37:09. | :37:16. | |
take for granted in this place. Even worse, they have been unable to have | :37:17. | :37:22. | |
children or have seen loved ones die tragically soon. These people should | :37:23. | :37:26. | |
be helped and need to be provided with a full and final settlement | :37:27. | :37:29. | |
that allows them to move on without being worse off. There remains much | :37:30. | :37:37. | |
misunderstanding about the medical conditions of the victims and the | :37:38. | :37:40. | |
treatments available. The improvements in care for those with | :37:41. | :37:47. | |
HIV has been a blessing for many. However, the disease remains in | :37:48. | :37:52. | |
durable and if you are a haemophiliac or have other | :37:53. | :37:54. | |
conditions such as hepatitis C, then you cannot take the medication that | :37:55. | :38:01. | |
could help you. We must also public consider that those infected by more | :38:02. | :38:06. | |
than one disease, those with both HIV and HCV have a threefold greater | :38:07. | :38:13. | |
risk of progression to sclerosis or liver disease than those just | :38:14. | :38:19. | |
infected with one. We must not miss understand the dangers of these | :38:20. | :38:23. | |
diseases. My constituents and the constituents of so many of us here | :38:24. | :38:27. | |
today have suffered a grave injustice. It is an injustice they | :38:28. | :38:30. | |
never expected to supper. Would never have been able to prepare for | :38:31. | :38:35. | |
and for which the blame rests entirely elsewhere and because of | :38:36. | :38:39. | |
this, they or their loved ones have experienced terrible illness and | :38:40. | :38:41. | |
their lives have been changed or ended. Unfairness does not seem a | :38:42. | :38:45. | |
strong enough word to describe it. That word is the best we can do. The | :38:46. | :38:58. | |
Prime Minister was correct to apologise, but this consultation | :38:59. | :39:02. | |
does not go far enough, constituents only have to look north of the | :39:03. | :39:09. | |
border to see a better deal, even talk about monuments, and that could | :39:10. | :39:16. | |
leave them in a worse position, that anger and resentment, | :39:17. | :39:24. | |
understandable. I am grateful to the honourable gentleman. Does he agree, | :39:25. | :39:30. | |
you could have a danger that the consultation could undo the quality, | :39:31. | :39:38. | |
the intention of the policy, to safeguard the interests, of those, | :39:39. | :39:42. | |
chronically infected, and receiving annual payments. But is that annual | :39:43. | :39:52. | |
payment is not longer index linked, some of my constituents have had to | :39:53. | :40:02. | |
take early retirement because of Hep C, making financial assumptions, if | :40:03. | :40:06. | |
this is not going to the index linked, I'm doing -- undoing the | :40:07. | :40:18. | |
sincerity of the apology. I have had similar representations from my | :40:19. | :40:25. | |
constituents, and when we met, representations were some more. I | :40:26. | :40:29. | |
sincerely hope the front bench is listening. The Prime Minister said | :40:30. | :40:39. | |
last year, as a wealthy, successful country, we should be helping people | :40:40. | :40:43. | |
more, I support that, and I hope that the Minister and the Department | :40:44. | :40:50. | |
for health, make sure that the settlements meet the intentions of | :40:51. | :40:53. | |
what was said last year. Thank you very much. I hope we can get through | :40:54. | :40:59. | |
this debate, without having a formal time limit. It is not a contentious | :41:00. | :41:08. | |
debate, on one side or the other. I trust that members are going to | :41:09. | :41:18. | |
become tears, -- be courteous, keeping speeches to seven minutes, | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
everybody who wants to contribute has an opportunity to do so. Thank | :41:23. | :41:27. | |
you Madam Deputy Speaker. And all credit, to the member, my honourable | :41:28. | :41:37. | |
friend, for securing the debate, and the backbench business committee, | :41:38. | :41:40. | |
for granting that. And the members of the campaign who have travelled, | :41:41. | :41:47. | |
to be at the gallery today. Many of them, not able to stay because of | :41:48. | :41:51. | |
the emergency debate, about steel, but many of them have been able to | :41:52. | :41:55. | |
stay and I want to thank them for the patience. I am speaking on | :41:56. | :42:06. | |
behalf of my constituents, the Smith family, who lost their son aged | :42:07. | :42:14. | |
seven. And earlier, Lyn lost her husband. High have spoken about | :42:15. | :42:22. | |
Colin, to describe what has been the greatest treatment disaster. Colin | :42:23. | :42:31. | |
was at hospital, eight months old, ear infection. He received factor | :42:32. | :42:35. | |
eight. Following a Freedom of Information Act quest, it was | :42:36. | :42:39. | |
revealed that it came from a batch, from present. The family, not | :42:40. | :42:46. | |
finding out that it was hepatitis C, until after his death. Now parent | :42:47. | :42:53. | |
should have to go through that. They want justice, so that their son can | :42:54. | :43:01. | |
rest in peace. I thank my honourable friend for giving way. That story, | :43:02. | :43:07. | |
is just many that we have had from constituents, my constituent, David, | :43:08. | :43:12. | |
has told me passionately about his circumstances, clearly, this is a | :43:13. | :43:18. | |
United Kingdom legacy issue, historical injustice. We have heard | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
about the differences between Scotland, and elsewhere. We need to | :43:23. | :43:25. | |
make sure that the United Kingdom works with evolved administrations, | :43:26. | :43:30. | |
and the Wales Office, to make sure we do not have a postcode lottery, | :43:31. | :43:34. | |
with worse situations, some people not getting the same justice as our | :43:35. | :43:43. | |
bus. I thank my honourable friend, for that intervention. I know that | :43:44. | :43:51. | |
is going to be heard from a large contingent of campaigners from | :43:52. | :43:58. | |
Wales. My other constituent, Laim Ashcroft, was one of the first, if | :43:59. | :44:05. | |
contracting HIV, and lost his job, after telling them about his status. | :44:06. | :44:19. | |
No life cover. Following his death, Lyn had to grieve. Eventually, | :44:20. | :44:26. | |
receiving some support, but found the process is brutal. She thought | :44:27. | :44:35. | |
that she was jumping through hoops. We have to keep telling these | :44:36. | :44:37. | |
stories because we have to remember that many people need settlement. It | :44:38. | :44:42. | |
helps to draw line under this period. They have lost loved ones, | :44:43. | :44:50. | |
friends, and as they have told me before, in the end it becomes too | :44:51. | :44:55. | |
difficult to attend constant funerals as members of the community | :44:56. | :45:03. | |
pass away. They want proper support. The Prime Minister's apology, did my | :45:04. | :45:13. | |
constituent Sandra, some hope that the wrong done to her family would | :45:14. | :45:19. | |
right it. But subsequent developments, fly in the face of it, | :45:20. | :45:26. | |
do not tell us you're sorry, show it. I think my honourable friend | :45:27. | :45:32. | |
makes a fantastic, and well-received point. I was going to come onto | :45:33. | :45:38. | |
that. Some hope, last year, when the Prime Minister made the apology, for | :45:39. | :45:46. | |
contaminated disaster, he promised to improve financial support, for | :45:47. | :45:50. | |
the victims and families. As the Prime Minister himself has said, we | :45:51. | :45:55. | |
are wealthy and successful country, we should be helping these people | :45:56. | :46:00. | |
more. Some hope, the consultation was launched to sure what the | :46:01. | :46:04. | |
support should be looking great. But one year on, victims have been let | :46:05. | :46:12. | |
down again. Despite two 125 million, support, not a penny spent, the | :46:13. | :46:18. | |
majority of people are going to be financially worse off, under this | :46:19. | :46:23. | |
scheme. Removing discretionary payments, many people are going to | :46:24. | :46:30. | |
lose out, to the tune of thousands. Significantly for soft, compared to | :46:31. | :46:42. | |
those in Scotland. -- worse off. And the proposed reforms, not delivering | :46:43. | :46:50. | |
the sustainability and security, that the affected communities need. | :46:51. | :46:55. | |
It is not the package needed. It is also not clear, if payments from the | :46:56. | :46:59. | |
new proposals are going to be exempt from tax. What has been proposed is | :47:00. | :47:03. | |
going to be different from what has been offered by the Scottish | :47:04. | :47:09. | |
Government, for widows, the difference is stark. I am going to | :47:10. | :47:12. | |
leave that to the Scottish National Party, but the difference is | :47:13. | :47:18. | |
pointed. Thank you for giving way. Does she not accept, this is one | :47:19. | :47:22. | |
occasion, we should have close working across administrations, one | :47:23. | :47:30. | |
of my constituents, affected 35 years ago, Staffordshire. Although | :47:31. | :47:35. | |
that he has been living in Scotland, he will get compensation, under the | :47:36. | :47:39. | |
scheme that was devised by the Department of him, for England. | :47:40. | :47:47. | |
Where is the sense in that? I thank the honourable member format | :47:48. | :47:51. | |
integration. -- for that intervention. For parents, losing a | :47:52. | :48:05. | |
child, nothing at all. On treatments, Nigel Mills, is here, | :48:06. | :48:09. | |
talking about treatment for Hep C. All those, across Wales, who have | :48:10. | :48:16. | |
developed Hep C, and who could benefit, and the society, hope that | :48:17. | :48:21. | |
everybody should have access to that, and the community should not | :48:22. | :48:26. | |
be diverted, to cover existing treatments. How many times do we | :48:27. | :48:30. | |
keep have to telling these personal stories? And how many times do we | :48:31. | :48:34. | |
keep having to have these debates? How many times the victims have to | :48:35. | :48:41. | |
come to London, to lobby MPs? The society have highlighted weaknesses, | :48:42. | :48:45. | |
and how the consultation should be withdrawn. I ask the Minister, to | :48:46. | :48:51. | |
reflect on this, because what he has proposed, does not meet the needs, | :48:52. | :48:55. | |
of widows, those affected. But this has been an ongoing make me, -- make | :48:56. | :49:02. | |
me, since the 1970s. The government cannot bring back the dead, but it | :49:03. | :49:10. | |
can't ever package, to ensure that survivors prosper. We do not want | :49:11. | :49:16. | |
more agony, for those who have suffered, please listen to this | :49:17. | :49:19. | |
campaign, give the campaign is what they deserve. Thank you very much | :49:20. | :49:25. | |
Madam Deputy Speaker. I welcome this important topic, by the backbench | :49:26. | :49:30. | |
business committee, and I want to congratulate my honourable friend, | :49:31. | :49:40. | |
Norwich and Hull, for efforts to secure this debate. I want to | :49:41. | :49:49. | |
recognise the tremendous campaign work, about the contaminated blood, | :49:50. | :49:54. | |
the efforts have paved the way for the current consultation, securing | :49:55. | :50:00. | |
financial settlements, for the thousands of people, infected, with | :50:01. | :50:07. | |
HIV, and Hep C, because of contaminated blood from the 1970s. | :50:08. | :50:18. | |
From the outset, my heart goes out to those people affected, in my | :50:19. | :50:21. | |
constituency and across the country. The devastating impact, on them, | :50:22. | :50:28. | |
family and friends, lasts for lighting. We must do what we to | :50:29. | :50:35. | |
ensure that those affected have secure future. I have personal | :50:36. | :50:39. | |
experience, trying to kill one constituent, who has sadly been | :50:40. | :50:48. | |
impacted -- help one, my constituent was infected, in 1995, at the age of | :50:49. | :50:56. | |
45. Subsequently, contracting Hep C, which has developed, into cirrhosis | :50:57. | :51:03. | |
of the liver. My constituent, who has asked not to be identified, has | :51:04. | :51:13. | |
undergone three courses of treatment, the last course caused a | :51:14. | :51:20. | |
life-threatening infection, causing one month in hospital, and sundry. | :51:21. | :51:26. | |
My constituent suffers from fatigue, physical weakness, brain fog, unable | :51:27. | :51:34. | |
to read anything vaguely complicated, itching, depression, | :51:35. | :51:44. | |
and the stress of living with these conditions must be immeasurable. The | :51:45. | :51:47. | |
government has to do all that it can, to support patients and | :51:48. | :51:53. | |
families. My constituent wanted this case highlighted, as an example, | :51:54. | :51:59. | |
when support for patients, suffering from cirrhosis of the liver, have | :52:00. | :52:05. | |
got financial hardship, and difficult and distressing times. She | :52:06. | :52:12. | |
was grateful, of an income of 14,000, per annum, however, that | :52:13. | :52:22. | |
figure would be 26,000 in Scotland. Almost double. That is an equal. I | :52:23. | :52:30. | |
have a constituent, who wrote to me about this. Tragic case. What I | :52:31. | :52:36. | |
struggle to do, on this point, as explained to her, why constituents | :52:37. | :52:41. | |
across the United Kingdom should be getting such different arrangements, | :52:42. | :52:44. | |
Devon that this arose, under the UK Government. I concur. Particularly | :52:45. | :52:56. | |
concerned, with proposals, two West raw index linking, and refusing to | :52:57. | :53:02. | |
increase out. I understand, currently a recommendation to fix | :53:03. | :53:07. | |
annual payments, at a flat rate of ?15,000, every year, leaving my | :53:08. | :53:11. | |
constituent with a nominal increase, of about 200 and also proposals to | :53:12. | :53:18. | |
withdraw back-up services, for emergencies, and support that will | :53:19. | :53:22. | |
also certainly be required given the severity of the conversion. Could I | :53:23. | :53:27. | |
ask my honourable friend, the minister, to clarify the position, | :53:28. | :53:32. | |
and take my constituent and concerns, into account when final | :53:33. | :53:38. | |
proposals. She previously enjoyed a successful career, in the legal | :53:39. | :53:46. | |
profession, but became too ill to continue following the infection. | :53:47. | :53:53. | |
Career was cut short. As was the considerable earning potential, and | :53:54. | :53:58. | |
professional development. Patients must be treated, with fairness, | :53:59. | :54:01. | |
assist and supported. I am glad the Prime Minister | :54:02. | :54:10. | |
acknowledged the scale of the tragedy and apologised on behalf of | :54:11. | :54:12. | |
the UK Government and I welcome the additional funding for England | :54:13. | :54:17. | |
announced in 2015 to ease the transition to a reform scheme and | :54:18. | :54:22. | |
ensure its sustainable operation. This scheme must provide a robust | :54:23. | :54:28. | |
and fairer system which both supports and compensate those | :54:29. | :54:33. | |
affected and removes any unnecessary complexities and unfairness. I would | :54:34. | :54:39. | |
like to thank the honourable lady for giving way. She mentioned the | :54:40. | :54:46. | |
APPG at the start of her speech and I think it is right that that is | :54:47. | :54:48. | |
highlighted because a lot of light onto this issue. | :54:49. | :54:55. | |
There is a heartbreaking story in every single constituency. I had to | :54:56. | :54:59. | |
constituents who through no fault of their own received contaminated | :55:00. | :55:01. | |
blood products and one of them feels that he has a death sentence hanging | :55:02. | :55:06. | |
over his head. Would she agree with me that we should not add quite | :55:07. | :55:11. | |
literally add insult to injury and adjust the first settlement most | :55:12. | :55:15. | |
people sought and found as soon as possible? I know it is not | :55:16. | :55:21. | |
necessarily our Government that was responsible for the blood products | :55:22. | :55:24. | |
but it is this Government who has two sorted out once and for all. I | :55:25. | :55:30. | |
sincerely hope that the Minister is listening to what the gentleman had | :55:31. | :55:35. | |
to say and we will see the Minister and the Government take action to | :55:36. | :55:39. | |
perhaps write or make it easy for these people to live as good in life | :55:40. | :55:47. | |
as they can expect to. For example, there are currently five different | :55:48. | :55:53. | |
organisations funded by UK health departments to which infected | :55:54. | :55:56. | |
individuals can apply for support. On this aspect, it is encouraging | :55:57. | :55:59. | |
that south of the schemes have said it would be even more efficient and | :56:00. | :56:05. | |
consistent if they were combined. -- staff. Other concerns that have been | :56:06. | :56:09. | |
made should be addressed through the consultation and subsequent | :56:10. | :56:15. | |
proposals. That includes the fact that beneficiaries are not assessed | :56:16. | :56:19. | |
on an individual basis and that bodies operate a different payment | :56:20. | :56:23. | |
policies. The APPG is quite correct in stating that the current system | :56:24. | :56:28. | |
is not fit for purpose. The current consultation being conducted by the | :56:29. | :56:31. | |
Department of Health which concludes this week is a healthy step and I am | :56:32. | :56:35. | |
pleased that it has sought to reach out and seek views of infected | :56:36. | :56:40. | |
patients and their beneficiaries and I would like to congratulate the | :56:41. | :56:44. | |
Minister on that. The outcome must lead to a fair and sustainable | :56:45. | :56:51. | |
solution for my constituents and impacted individuals and families | :56:52. | :56:54. | |
across the country. Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. Thank | :56:55. | :57:02. | |
you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I would like to show my admiration for my | :57:03. | :57:07. | |
honourable friend for the sterling work in raising these points and I | :57:08. | :57:14. | |
know from personal experience that the member is a formidable | :57:15. | :57:18. | |
campaigner on this issue. There is no greater responsibility that an MP | :57:19. | :57:21. | |
has done to give a voice to those that feel as though they are not | :57:22. | :57:24. | |
being heard. I want to use this as an opportunity to tell the story of | :57:25. | :57:31. | |
my constituent Alex Smith. Quite a lot of this debate has been about | :57:32. | :57:34. | |
finance and I think that is important and it is quite evident | :57:35. | :57:38. | |
from the consultation and from Government that the drive from their | :57:39. | :57:41. | |
point of view is to squeeze this for every penny that they can do, that I | :57:42. | :57:47. | |
want to talk about the real human cost, the everyday cost shock to | :57:48. | :57:52. | |
those who are effected. Alex is ill. He struggles to get out and about. | :57:53. | :57:57. | |
He often feels worn out, unable to live a fulfilling life that you and | :57:58. | :58:00. | |
I might take for granted. Despite his physical difficulties, he is too | :58:01. | :58:07. | |
many, including me, and inspiring man. He has shown a great strength | :58:08. | :58:11. | |
of character, resilience, and pride. A pride which is the culture of many | :58:12. | :58:17. | |
in our town. But his story is not just heartbreaking. It is unjust. | :58:18. | :58:22. | |
And any fairer society, those who are wrong it should have fairness | :58:23. | :58:27. | |
and the wrong should be put right. Alex and his wife Brenda celebrated | :58:28. | :58:34. | |
the arrival of their son in 1980. And just to put on record how long | :58:35. | :58:39. | |
this family have been waiting for a real justice, in the time since | :58:40. | :58:43. | |
that's blood contamination took place to get answers, to get proper | :58:44. | :58:48. | |
compensation, and now to fight for enough money just to pay the bills, | :58:49. | :58:53. | |
I was born in a hospital down the road. I have been to nursery, a bean | :58:54. | :58:57. | |
to primary school, I've been to secondary school, I've been to | :58:58. | :59:01. | |
college, and I have been to work and I have two sons of my own, the | :59:02. | :59:04. | |
eldest of whom will be leaving school in two years' time and in the | :59:05. | :59:08. | |
time that Alex has had to wait to get justice, I have lived my life | :59:09. | :59:12. | |
and have lived it without many of the difficulties that Alex has had | :59:13. | :59:16. | |
that period and that just is no justice at all. A year after 1980, | :59:17. | :59:24. | |
Brenda was diagnosed with cervical cancer and she received treatment | :59:25. | :59:29. | |
because of that including a blood transfusion. Separate, Alex, being a | :59:30. | :59:34. | |
good citizen, in 1995, whence to give blood, like hundreds of | :59:35. | :59:38. | |
thousands of others, and during that sample test, it was discovered that | :59:39. | :59:43. | |
Alex had hepatitis C. To be honest, he did not really know what it was | :59:44. | :59:48. | |
and he was told that with treatment, it should clear up, so he went to | :59:49. | :59:51. | |
receive treatment and he received the majority of that treatment but | :59:52. | :59:54. | |
it stopped early for other reasons and he thought that was it. But over | :59:55. | :00:00. | |
three years, Alex noticed he was becoming forgetful. He put it down | :00:01. | :00:04. | |
to getting older, some senior moments, but it got worse and | :00:05. | :00:08. | |
increasingly he became worn out, he became tired and lethargic and he | :00:09. | :00:11. | |
struggled but he had the support of his wife and his family by his side. | :00:12. | :00:17. | |
Fast forward ten years and the family received another tragedy when | :00:18. | :00:22. | |
his wife Brenda passes away. The coroner ruled that the case was | :00:23. | :00:27. | |
inconclusive and it was recorded is as an ascertained. We can imagine | :00:28. | :00:30. | |
the grief the family went through and throughout this time, Alex | :00:31. | :00:34. | |
continued to struggle with each and every day. Things you and I would | :00:35. | :00:38. | |
take for granted. In 2011, Alex visited the doctor again and | :00:39. | :00:45. | |
underwent a routine blood test. He discovered the hepatitis C had not | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
gone away at all and it was still there. He went through further | :00:49. | :00:51. | |
treatment but instead of making him feel better, it made him feel much, | :00:52. | :00:57. | |
much worse. He was determined not just to get treatment but to get | :00:58. | :01:02. | |
answers to. So his quest started at the hospital where he felt it began. | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
The records had been destroyed so he realised that to get real justice | :01:08. | :01:11. | |
and to get answers, he would have to track down the people who were there | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
at that time. His quest, his mission, led him to Bangor North | :01:16. | :01:19. | |
Wales where a retired surgeon was living who confirmed that Alex had | :01:20. | :01:23. | |
had a blood transfusion with what was likely to be contaminated blood. | :01:24. | :01:30. | |
And that made Alex think if I in the same hospital had received | :01:31. | :01:32. | |
contaminated blood, could it be that his wife Brenda received treatment | :01:33. | :01:39. | |
in the same hospital had also had contaminated blood and potentially | :01:40. | :01:44. | |
hepatitis C as well? So we went to the hospital to find the records and | :01:45. | :01:49. | |
the record said Brenda did have hepatitis C. Now, cruelly, | :01:50. | :01:55. | |
unexplainable, the hospital did not tell Brenda and they did not tell | :01:56. | :01:59. | |
Alex that this had been discovered. It was only years later when he went | :02:00. | :02:02. | |
back for the medical record that that was discovered. He applied to | :02:03. | :02:07. | |
the Skipton fund and he did receive compensation for himself and his | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
wife as a surviving woodwork but that did not make Alex feel any | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
better physically. He described everyday, just imagine this, as | :02:16. | :02:21. | |
waking up with flu. Every day, seven days per week, 365 days per year | :02:22. | :02:26. | |
feeling like you have got the flu with no end in sight and how that | :02:27. | :02:29. | |
would drag you down and make everyday life feel for people in the | :02:30. | :02:38. | |
house. Alex and Brenda didn't ask to be infected. They didn't ask to | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
spend their lives living in pain and living in poverty. He didn't ask now | :02:43. | :02:47. | |
during this consultation to be made to feel as though he's begging for | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
something he is not entitled to. He has had his life taken away and what | :02:52. | :02:54. | |
he want is justice and fairness and closure and to stop this campaign to | :02:55. | :03:00. | |
get justice and to live a decent lifestyle. I give way. You're making | :03:01. | :03:07. | |
a very serious and sympathetic point, but as well as the suffering, | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
is it not the unrealised potential of these people, the hopes dashed, | :03:12. | :03:16. | |
the dreams never lived, the potential never reached and it is | :03:17. | :03:18. | |
really love those accounts that we really all which of these people and | :03:19. | :03:25. | |
I speak for one of my constituents and urge the Minister really to | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
address this. Absolutely excellent point and during the discussion with | :03:30. | :03:33. | |
Alex when he came to my office he relayed actually through the | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
compensation payment he bought a van to go out to work self-employed but | :03:38. | :03:41. | |
his illness stopped him and eventually he had to sell the ban | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
that ended up sitting on the driveway so you are right. People | :03:47. | :03:49. | |
have been denied opportunities that may be many people in this house | :03:50. | :03:52. | |
would take for granted. It is far more than just an acre or a pain or | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
just not knowing if tomorrow will be better than today, it is the | :03:58. | :03:59. | |
opportunities that have been stolen from people and we all which as a | :04:00. | :04:05. | |
nation, given that it is a state responsibility to put it right once | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
and for all. The payments that we are talking about too many people | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
here will seem like quite small payments. But in some ways, that is | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
what makes this so unfair and so cruel will stop in one of the | :04:19. | :04:21. | |
richest nations in the world, we are talking about penny-pinching from | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
the poorest people in society, those who did not choose to be on the | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
situation and those who need a way forward. ?2000 payment being taken | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
away, a Winter fuel allowance taken away. The prescription payment taken | :04:37. | :04:43. | |
away. The support taken away. ?2000 isn't for everybody, it is for those | :04:44. | :04:50. | |
where 70% of their income is below the average in that area. I do not | :04:51. | :04:54. | |
want to make a party political point about this but it is a bit difficult | :04:55. | :04:58. | |
when the Government of the day are the ones who could put this right | :04:59. | :05:01. | |
and are choosing to drag this out and to prolong the agony and the | :05:02. | :05:04. | |
pain. But when it eventually does come to a fault and members vote in | :05:05. | :05:09. | |
the lobbies of this house, we will all be voting this year after | :05:10. | :05:15. | |
receiving a pay rise, well done is, aren't we fantastic? By people out | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
there are not asking for a pay rise, they are asking just to get by, just | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
up the money to pay the bills and for justice and minister you have | :05:25. | :05:26. | |
the ability to put this right once and for also take it. Thank you very | :05:27. | :05:34. | |
much indeed, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am also very glad to be able to take | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
part in this debate along with honourable members across the house | :05:39. | :05:41. | |
in having secured this important and sombre topic. I have spoken in this | :05:42. | :05:48. | |
house already fought to constituents and this was back in 2015. One of | :05:49. | :05:53. | |
those is I believe present in London today. One of the others has since | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
passed away and that lady is Annie Walker of Norwich. She was one of | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
thousands of people nationwide given infected blood by the NHS during | :06:04. | :06:09. | |
those decades and a letter fighting almost all throughout adult life. | :06:10. | :06:15. | |
She contracted hepatitis C for another routine blood transfusion at | :06:16. | :06:19. | |
the age of just 19 which then caused cirrhosis of liver and lead to | :06:20. | :06:22. | |
cancer in later years. In spite of the liver transplants in those | :06:23. | :06:30. | |
months since, I have last spoken for her, she was given just months to | :06:31. | :06:34. | |
live after being told that the cancer had spread. And she, like | :06:35. | :06:37. | |
many others, throughout and this campaign to increase awareness of | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
hepatitis C and permitted treatment of those effected by the scandal and | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
the first thing I want to do today in my time is to pay tribute to her | :06:46. | :06:51. | |
courage and her tireless miss in doing that for others whilst she was | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
suffering so badly for herself. In addition to those items that have | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
already been raised here today and to the origin of the Minister to do | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
everything she can to put this historic wrong now right, I would | :07:05. | :07:10. | |
like to add just a few things. I would like to urge the Minister to | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
look again at the index. I think it is important that we seek to | :07:15. | :07:17. | |
maintain the value of the payments that are made to those who are | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
suffering. I would like to urge her to stick to her guns in making these | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
future payments simple or more simple brother and more dignified | :07:27. | :07:31. | |
than having to go to a motley collection of charitable funds. I | :07:32. | :07:35. | |
would also like actually to urge the Minister to stick to what she laid | :07:36. | :07:39. | |
out in this house where she established that her own effect was | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
to get annual payments to some of those who did not yet received them | :07:45. | :07:50. | |
and to have not been included in those funds, who currently get no | :07:51. | :07:53. | |
regular support. It is a good thing to do to seek to includes some of | :07:54. | :07:59. | |
those people in this scheme. I think that the other half of her aim is | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
equally crucial which is not to remove payment from any other | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
person. It is that to which we all hold her accountable. Like others, I | :08:10. | :08:15. | |
welcome what is in fact the doubling of the funding available through the | :08:16. | :08:18. | |
NHS and I would like to add one more argument to this, I also welcome the | :08:19. | :08:24. | |
action the Minister has laid out on treatment and this is something I | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
have argued a number of times in this house and it is because of a | :08:29. | :08:32. | |
third constituent who came to see me after we had last held this debate | :08:33. | :08:36. | |
here and he suffers from severe sclerosis of the liver and he needs | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
those drugs, that new generation of drugs, and we should make those | :08:41. | :08:43. | |
drugs available as soon as possible or those whose could then suffer | :08:44. | :08:52. | |
less. The sheer idea that we have to have a dilemma between doctors | :08:53. | :08:56. | |
treating the sickest first or treating those who could then be | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
prevented from getting sicker, this is a dreadful, dreadful dilemma and | :09:01. | :09:06. | |
I welcome the opportunity that is represented in the scheme as | :09:07. | :09:09. | |
proposed, that we may be able to prevent that dreadful dilemma from | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
being forced to take place in Doctor's surgeries and hospitals up | :09:15. | :09:15. | |
and down the land. Delicate thing to do, prioritising | :09:16. | :09:31. | |
treatment, but that is exactly what we have to do, on behalf of the | :09:32. | :09:37. | |
constituents, and doctors have to make those decisions, every day. On | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
balance, I think it is the correct thing to do, so that the dreadful | :09:42. | :09:47. | |
dilemma can perhaps be stopped. Given such a historic wrong done to | :09:48. | :10:00. | |
fellow human beings, I could not look that constituent in the eye, | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
until then that I had been arguing against that proposal. What I want | :10:06. | :10:15. | |
to do, is return to the example, Annie Walker, my constituent, who | :10:16. | :10:28. | |
has passed away. My heart goes to the family and friends. Every | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
individual death, emphasises the tragedy of this scandal. It is a | :10:33. | :10:39. | |
national scandal, national tragedy. The site must go on. Somebody like | :10:40. | :10:49. | |
Annie, fought that fight, with my support, as is the case for many in | :10:50. | :10:55. | |
London today. I would answer, for many affected, and for those who | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
have not come forward, to do so and looked at the consultation before | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
the last few days. Because we can only attempt to get this right, with | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
information from those affected. Yes. I thank the honourable member, | :11:09. | :11:18. | |
would she agree with the sentiment, of my constituent, who I believe is | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
here today. He came to my office last week. It is a face many would | :11:23. | :11:30. | |
recognise, almost looking when somebody who had been kicked in the | :11:31. | :11:36. | |
teeth. He said that the government has to act, for British | :11:37. | :11:43. | |
haemophiliacs, hoping that we could tell the government, how poultry the | :11:44. | :11:57. | |
meaning is. I will let the words speak for themselves. It is to us to | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
get this correct. Annie told me that she did not have the strength to | :12:03. | :12:05. | |
keep on fighting, sadly that has come true. It is up to us to speak | :12:06. | :12:15. | |
up, and do that this will -- with both finance and treatment, I am | :12:16. | :12:20. | |
watching the Minister to listen carefully, to what she has held | :12:21. | :12:27. | |
today, but even more from the consultation. Madam Deputy Speaker, | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
one of the first actions, that I took following my election, was to | :12:32. | :12:38. | |
highlight the plight of the contaminated blood, I was rating to | :12:39. | :12:41. | |
the Department of Hills, following discussions. In July 2015, I also | :12:42. | :12:50. | |
raised a motion, to recognise ongoing hardship and challenges | :12:51. | :12:55. | |
faced, by those with contaminated blood, to encourage the Prime | :12:56. | :12:58. | |
Minister to implement and distribute an additional ?25 million, to those | :12:59. | :13:05. | |
affected as is possible. Infected blood is one of the most terrible | :13:06. | :13:11. | |
chapters, in the history of the NHS. Many people have died, suffering | :13:12. | :13:17. | |
disability, as a result of the infection. Relatives have had to | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
sacrifice careers, to provide support, and partners, loved ones, | :13:23. | :13:31. | |
have become infected, carers have dealt with that with incredible | :13:32. | :13:41. | |
courage. One of my constituents, had a rare treatment, requiring blood | :13:42. | :13:48. | |
transfusions, infected 42 years ago, I had an woman with her life ahead | :13:49. | :13:55. | |
of her. Following a transfusion, she developed symptoms, of hepatitis, | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
suffering from chronic conditions, that have rendered her to remain | :14:01. | :14:09. | |
upright more than ten minutes at a time. Them becoming fatigued, as a | :14:10. | :14:15. | |
result of the infections. Although now living in Scotland, she was | :14:16. | :14:20. | |
infected in England. The liability of the card and schemes, revolve | :14:21. | :14:28. | |
around where they were infected. This means that the English schemes | :14:29. | :14:36. | |
are responsible for supporting Julie, delivering financial support | :14:37. | :14:41. | |
that she requires. Julie, currently classed as stage one, received a | :14:42. | :14:47. | |
payment of ?20,000, but no annual reward. Julie's particular medical | :14:48. | :14:54. | |
condition, she has problems meeting the criteria for stage two, that | :14:55. | :14:59. | |
would increase payments, and provide approximately ?15,000, per annum, in | :15:00. | :15:12. | |
support. I have reviewed, Julie's correspondent with the Skipton Fund, | :15:13. | :15:18. | |
and the responses have been even perhaps deliberately obtuse. I thank | :15:19. | :15:23. | |
my honourable friend for giving me the opportunity, to raise the | :15:24. | :15:31. | |
example, of my constituent, who lost her partner. Leaving her and her now | :15:32. | :15:40. | |
14-year-old daughter with no support. Since then, they have | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
received little, almost no government support. Today, remaining | :15:46. | :15:50. | |
in a state of limbo, where the government dithers. The government, | :15:51. | :15:59. | |
having dragged its heels for years, must now start to act, to support | :16:00. | :16:03. | |
the survivals of the scandal. I am grateful to my honourable friend. It | :16:04. | :16:09. | |
is up tragic case. I will come to the specific point that he has made | :16:10. | :16:16. | |
shortly. On the 24th of January, 2016, veterans Minister said that | :16:17. | :16:18. | |
the government wants to increase the money on offer, for the victims of | :16:19. | :16:24. | |
infected blood by 1 million. In addition to the ?25 million, | :16:25. | :16:28. | |
announced by the Prime Minister, this takes the total to ?225 | :16:29. | :16:34. | |
million, over the five years, to 2020. As we know, 12 week | :16:35. | :16:43. | |
consultations, closing this week. However, the proposed payments had | :16:44. | :16:46. | |
been heavily criticised by many of those affected, for being outdated, | :16:47. | :16:53. | |
the structure, and that is my experience also. They also seem | :16:54. | :16:59. | |
unfair. The UK Government has also predicted another 5.7 million will | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
be spent, over the projected life team, of the reform scheme. But | :17:05. | :17:07. | |
analysis has shown that the Department of hills, -- Health wants | :17:08. | :17:19. | |
to cut payments, increasing the cost of living. The UK Government also | :17:20. | :17:23. | |
wants to remove, regular discretionary payments, including | :17:24. | :17:31. | |
the winter fuel allowance, and child annual payment. That point, | :17:32. | :17:38. | |
regarding the cost of living, I have got several constituents in the same | :17:39. | :17:44. | |
situation. One of them suggested, she mentioned payments being | :17:45. | :17:46. | |
increased, to the level, of the minimum wage. I would absolutely | :17:47. | :17:53. | |
support that suggestion. And I would note as well, many victims across | :17:54. | :17:59. | |
England, face cuts, and together with cumulative losses, from fixed | :18:00. | :18:11. | |
annual payments, 15,000 a year, time limited support for partners, after | :18:12. | :18:18. | |
death, and the ending of help, for children and parents of those | :18:19. | :18:22. | |
affected. No more access for support, for those with mobility | :18:23. | :18:31. | |
issues, or expelled advice. The haemophiliacs society have said that | :18:32. | :18:35. | |
they have deep concerns about proposals for England, comparing | :18:36. | :18:40. | |
them to Scotland, the concern is compounded by the proposals from | :18:41. | :18:49. | |
Scotland, far better, and that if both of the proposals are accepted | :18:50. | :18:52. | |
as they currently stand, affected people across England will receive | :18:53. | :18:56. | |
much more levels of income, than those at Scotland. The Scottish | :18:57. | :19:00. | |
Government has already provided ?42 million, over the last ten years, to | :19:01. | :19:09. | |
the current UK wide schemes. Already committed to supporting those | :19:10. | :19:14. | |
affected across Scotland. But on 18 March this year, the Scottish | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
Government announced increased support, for those affected, | :19:19. | :19:25. | |
amounting to an additional 20 million, over the next three years. | :19:26. | :19:31. | |
The new Scottish scheme is going to see annual payments, for those with | :19:32. | :19:40. | |
HIV, and Hep C, 22 almost 20 7000. And for those affected, with both | :19:41. | :19:45. | |
HIV and Hep C, annual payments will increase from 30,000, 230 7000. -- | :19:46. | :20:00. | |
to 37,000. Wouldn't be open to save that the increased levels, for | :20:01. | :20:08. | |
Scotland, rather than where they get the infection? It would be an issue, | :20:09. | :20:16. | |
of liability. No response to the payment. In addition to the measures | :20:17. | :20:19. | |
that have already been announced, and you support and assistance grant | :20:20. | :20:24. | |
will be established in Scotland, to provide more flexible grants, and | :20:25. | :20:28. | |
additional needs. Scottish Government funding will be increased | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
from 300,000, to 1 million, per year. In real terms... Additional | :20:34. | :20:41. | |
financial support, available for all the affected people, and in | :20:42. | :20:52. | |
Scotland, this is not the end of the process, there will be ongoing work | :20:53. | :20:56. | |
with patient groups. In all the Roman contrast to the Scottish | :20:57. | :20:59. | |
Government, the UK Government are proposing to cut funding, leaving | :21:00. | :21:03. | |
vulnerable people thousands of pounds every year, worse off. It is | :21:04. | :21:09. | |
extremely disappointing, but the UK Government do not think it is | :21:10. | :21:12. | |
important, to support those that were affected, at England, and shows | :21:13. | :21:20. | |
that the priorities lie with austerity, not with the victims of | :21:21. | :21:24. | |
this terrible scandal. It is time for the UK Government, to support | :21:25. | :21:32. | |
those, who have had lives ruined, and for people like Julie, anything | :21:33. | :21:40. | |
less is literally insult to injury. Can I congratulate the honourable | :21:41. | :21:46. | |
member, for Hull North, for securing the debate. And for the valuable | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
work that they have been doing. All the members across the house, | :21:52. | :21:56. | |
receive a huge number of letters, emails, meetings with constituents, | :21:57. | :22:07. | |
about a huge number of issues. Occasionally, an email arrives, | :22:08. | :22:10. | |
stops you in your tracks. It demands the attention of the house. I | :22:11. | :22:18. | |
received such an email on June two last year. Just four weeks after | :22:19. | :22:26. | |
being elected. Madam Deputy Speaker, she is with us this afternoon. One | :22:27. | :22:32. | |
of many of the people who have come, to be here this afternoon. With | :22:33. | :22:41. | |
permission, I want to read a short excerpt, summing up better than I | :22:42. | :22:46. | |
could, the human impact of what is a national tragedy. This is what was | :22:47. | :22:56. | |
written. She said, that my late husband, was an haemophiliac, Devon | :22:57. | :23:02. | |
contaminated blood, dying in 1991, Aids, Hep B, Hep C. His death ripped | :23:03. | :23:10. | |
my family apart. My children lead compromise late, and I have severe | :23:11. | :23:18. | |
financial difficulties, to this day, despite doing everything possible, | :23:19. | :23:23. | |
to help myself recover, from a wrecked career, as a teacher, | :23:24. | :23:28. | |
retiring at the age of 50, on attaining pension. I have worked in | :23:29. | :23:33. | |
hospitals, but following major sundries, I have more less retired. | :23:34. | :23:39. | |
I have been campaigning for tortillas, for the truth, and | :23:40. | :23:43. | |
justice. And Madam Deputy Speaker, those are two of the crucial | :23:44. | :23:47. | |
elements that we must discuss. The truth, and justice. | :23:48. | :23:52. | |
I appreciate his generosity and I share his concern. My constituent | :23:53. | :23:58. | |
was given 11 units of contaminated blood and tested positive for | :23:59. | :24:04. | |
hepatitis C nine years later. One of his biggest concerns is his wife | :24:05. | :24:07. | |
will not have the security to pay for the mortgage if he dies before | :24:08. | :24:13. | |
her. Does he share my concern that read spouses should have proper | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
security and financial support for the rest of their lives? We should | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
be looking beyond those immediately affected personally by the health | :24:23. | :24:26. | |
effects and looking at the effect on the wider family and loved ones and | :24:27. | :24:29. | |
that is something I will refer to at a later stage. Mr Deputy Speaker, | :24:30. | :24:36. | |
truth and justice is what this is all about. We are at a stage where I | :24:37. | :24:41. | |
think we really could deliver both of those. The consultation is under | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
way. We had the announcement from my honourable friend the Minister in | :24:47. | :24:50. | |
January this year. We have a groundswell of public opinion. These | :24:51. | :24:55. | |
three factors mean we are at a crossroads. We may never have this | :24:56. | :25:00. | |
opportunity again. Campaigners acknowledge since 2010 the | :25:01. | :25:05. | |
Government has listened. We have made progress, more than in the | :25:06. | :25:11. | |
past. But the position is this, the consultation will close in three | :25:12. | :25:17. | |
days' time. Just three days. It is clear there is still a great deal of | :25:18. | :25:20. | |
unhappiness with the options on the table. The status quo, the existing | :25:21. | :25:26. | |
scheme, with confusing and inadequate provision, is | :25:27. | :25:31. | |
unacceptable. Neither is the alternative option, which seems to | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
propose a solution which fails to tackle the fundamental problem of | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
their financial provision. Both for those receiving contaminated blood, | :25:40. | :25:45. | |
and living with health consequences, and importantly for the families and | :25:46. | :25:49. | |
loved ones caring for them, or who grieve for them. Mr Deputy Speaker, | :25:50. | :25:57. | |
we must be realistic. Almost every decision we taken displays, this | :25:58. | :26:00. | |
does the end come down to money. We know money is tight. It would not be | :26:01. | :26:05. | |
realistic, it would be irresponsible to ask for an open cheque, or for | :26:06. | :26:11. | |
funding to be taken from equally worthwhile projects elsewhere in the | :26:12. | :26:15. | |
health budget. What I appeal for today from the Government on behalf | :26:16. | :26:21. | |
of my constituent and others with us are two perhaps even more precious | :26:22. | :26:26. | |
commodities, time and understanding. Time for the people including my | :26:27. | :26:30. | |
constituent to have their case adequately heard by the Government. | :26:31. | :26:35. | |
Not to be bounced into accepting one of these two options. Neither of | :26:36. | :26:38. | |
which they believe to be fair or adequate. Yes, of course. Very | :26:39. | :26:48. | |
powerful speech on behalf of his constituency. Would he agree it | :26:49. | :26:51. | |
would be tragic at the end of this consultation if some victims were | :26:52. | :26:53. | |
worse off because of the consultation? None of us would want | :26:54. | :27:00. | |
that. We must wait to hear what the minister says in winding up. I'm | :27:01. | :27:03. | |
sure that is what we would all be aiming for. At least the people that | :27:04. | :27:09. | |
have fought so hard for truth and justice, they deserve to have a fair | :27:10. | :27:14. | |
hearing. Mr Deputy Speaker, for many, time is running out. They find | :27:15. | :27:19. | |
themselves in a heartbreaking position, facing the inevitable | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
health consequences of what was a historic failure of the National | :27:25. | :27:31. | |
health Service. Of course. I must applaud massively the work of the | :27:32. | :27:34. | |
organisation which has been working for so long but he mentioned time | :27:35. | :27:37. | |
and I have just received a text message from one of my constituent, | :27:38. | :27:44. | |
who does not want to be named, about the stark reality, that those | :27:45. | :27:46. | |
infected are dying at a rate of one per month. Time for these people | :27:47. | :27:56. | |
really is of the essence. I believe there was an informal time limit of | :27:57. | :27:59. | |
seven minutes. There is one minute left. If we cannot get it down to | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
six minutes, I will have two put a formal time limit, which I do not | :28:05. | :28:11. | |
want to do. I understand, Mr Deputy Speaker. Time is running out. People | :28:12. | :28:16. | |
find themselves in an impossible position. I do not seek to extend | :28:17. | :28:22. | |
this process unnecessarily. But this deadline of April the 15th cannot | :28:23. | :28:27. | |
and must not be the end of this story. It cannot be a deadline after | :28:28. | :28:30. | |
which a decision is simply handed down. Let's give a proper respectful | :28:31. | :28:35. | |
hearing to those who believe an injustice is about to be done and | :28:36. | :28:41. | |
try and put it right. And the second thing I said we needed is | :28:42. | :28:44. | |
understanding. This has devastated the lives of many people, including | :28:45. | :28:49. | |
my constituent, so I end as I began with her words in an e-mail. "At The | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
moment I haven't the slightest idea how I will be able to manage and I | :28:55. | :28:58. | |
am in complete despair. It has occurred to me several times, after | :28:59. | :29:02. | |
fighting this for over three decades, I really do not want to | :29:03. | :29:09. | |
carry on. " I say this to my constituent and the other | :29:10. | :29:11. | |
campaigners with us, do carry on, tell us what we need to know, as my | :29:12. | :29:16. | |
honourable friend who has left her position, I think for Norwich North, | :29:17. | :29:20. | |
she said, it is only by hearing the true life stories of those affected | :29:21. | :29:23. | |
that my honourable friend the Minister, who I know is listening, | :29:24. | :29:29. | |
will take very careful note. And I conclude by saying this, Mr Deputy | :29:30. | :29:32. | |
Speaker. For my constituent and for many thousands of others, let's do | :29:33. | :29:38. | |
all we can to deliver what they want and deserve. Truth and fairness and | :29:39. | :29:50. | |
justice. Sir Gerald Coffman. Mr Deputy Speaker, thank you for | :29:51. | :29:54. | |
calling me. I would like to join with other members of Parliament in | :29:55. | :29:58. | |
thanking my honourable friend, the member for Hull North, for the work | :29:59. | :30:03. | |
she has done on this, which among other things has meant we have this | :30:04. | :30:10. | |
debate today. Everything that we deal with in this House of Commons | :30:11. | :30:14. | |
is about people. Whether it is Syrian refugees, south Wales | :30:15. | :30:23. | |
steelworks, whatever we do deals with the lives of people. And we are | :30:24. | :30:33. | |
somehow or other led to believe that the larger the number of people the | :30:34. | :30:40. | |
more important the issue is. And I think that is a basic problem. About | :30:41. | :30:52. | |
this issue. There are not a huge number of people who are affected by | :30:53. | :30:59. | |
blood contamination. But those people are affected in a way which | :31:00. | :31:05. | |
damages their lives every minute of every day. I would not know about | :31:06. | :31:13. | |
this issue if it were not for a person in my constituency who has | :31:14. | :31:20. | |
been in contact with me year after year after year after year so that I | :31:21. | :31:26. | |
have a file of correspondence so enormous that I would not be able to | :31:27. | :31:31. | |
bring it into this chamber. And two has been in touch with me asking me | :31:32. | :31:37. | |
to participate in this debate and ask a specific question. Let's be | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
clear about this. I do not accuse the Government of rain heartless. -- | :31:43. | :31:49. | |
being heartless. It would been the to do that taking into account the | :31:50. | :31:54. | |
suffering of people involved. But they do not seem to be grasping the | :31:55. | :32:02. | |
way in which a process should have been preceded effectively and with | :32:03. | :32:13. | |
an outcome has been left in such a way that we still cannot believe we | :32:14. | :32:16. | |
are going to have a result. We still cannot believe that the outcome is | :32:17. | :32:25. | |
going to be known and potentially to satisfy the relatively small number | :32:26. | :32:30. | |
of each of our constituents who suffers in this way. But when I say | :32:31. | :32:38. | |
it is a small number, it is 100% of their lives. And although it may | :32:39. | :32:48. | |
well be that every member in this chamber has in her roar his family | :32:49. | :32:50. | |
somebody who suffers from some | :32:51. | :32:56. |