Browse content similar to 28/04/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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of the day in both houses of parliament at 11pm tonight. First, | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
questions to the Secretary of State of transport. | :00:00. | :00:11. | |
Order, order. Questions to the Secretary of State for Transport. | :00:12. | :00:24. | |
Question one. Drones have great potential but it is important that | :00:25. | :00:28. | |
they are used to safely. There are already tough penalties in place for | :00:29. | :00:33. | |
negligent drone use. Including up to five years imprisonment for | :00:34. | :00:35. | |
endangering an aircraft. The Department NT News to work with | :00:36. | :00:42. | |
agencies to assess the safety risks of drones. Should the government not | :00:43. | :00:48. | |
heed the warning of Heathrow, and instead of the complacent position | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
taken, realise the potential of catastrophe by vandals or careless | :00:53. | :00:59. | |
people using drones, and the dreadful possibility of terrorists | :01:00. | :01:04. | |
using drones against stores of flammable material on nuclear power | :01:05. | :01:06. | |
stations? Already drones are being used to take mobile phones and drugs | :01:07. | :01:12. | |
into Wandsworth prison. Shouldn't the government wake up and realise | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
and realise this new menace is potential great threat and take | :01:18. | :01:23. | |
precautions in order to reduce the universal access to drones that | :01:24. | :01:27. | |
exists now? There is no complacency whatsoever. By the government by the | :01:28. | :01:34. | |
use of drones. There is a prison sentence which is available and I | :01:35. | :01:38. | |
will obviously keep the situation under review. It is also important | :01:39. | :01:44. | |
to find out the facts behind certain incidents, so the incident that was | :01:45. | :01:49. | |
reported on the 17th of April, it is now thought that that was not a | :01:50. | :01:58. | |
drone incident. I wonder if the Minister could update the House on | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
the state of investment in the roads in the north-east, in particular the | :02:03. | :02:11. | |
A1, and how that can make progress? Most interesting matter but little | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
distant for the matter of drones, save it for the long summer evenings | :02:16. | :02:21. | |
that lie ahead. There are growing concerns about incidents involving | :02:22. | :02:27. | |
drones threatening public safety. It is not very clear if there is a | :02:28. | :02:31. | |
problem to do with regulations themselves, or the enforcement of | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
those ready nations. Will the secretary of state look at those? I | :02:36. | :02:42. | |
certainly will. I met earlier this week, a planned meeting before the | :02:43. | :02:48. | |
incident on the 17th of April, with BALPA, to discuss this, and also | :02:49. | :02:55. | |
laser pen used, the is causing for civil aviation in this country. But | :02:56. | :02:58. | |
I certainly will keep these things very much under review, and do | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
further work along with BALPA and the industry, and the CAA, on drones | :03:04. | :03:09. | |
and drone use. Can my right honourable friend assure me that all | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
regulations and guidance with regard to drones and air safety will apply | :03:14. | :03:20. | |
and be communicated to appoint outside London -- to airports | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
outside London, so we have a consistent policy across the country | :03:25. | :03:27. | |
with air safety? My honourable friend gives a very good point, this | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
is not just a matter of London airports, it is any airport, also a | :03:33. | :03:38. | |
matter of airport outside London which serve important international | :03:39. | :03:40. | |
connections right across the country. I hear what the Transport | :03:41. | :03:46. | |
Secretary is saying with his engagement with airports, but it is | :03:47. | :03:51. | |
also an issue for stadiums, railway stations and other places where | :03:52. | :03:54. | |
public gather in huge numbers. Can he tell us what discussions he has | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
had with the widest possible range of stakeholders including local | :03:59. | :04:04. | |
authorities with the use of drones? The issue that I was addressing and | :04:05. | :04:10. | |
addressing in this country, this question, was related to aviation. | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
That is the point that I have updated the House on. Of course, | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
there are wider issues across the government and the government keeps | :04:20. | :04:21. | |
these matters consistently under review. I am grateful for that | :04:22. | :04:29. | |
response, even if it was not much of an answer. The Secretary of State | :04:30. | :04:32. | |
briefly touched upon another important issue surrounding laser | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
pens, and in particular the threat that they also pose to airports | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
across the United Kingdom. BALPA have called for all but the lowest | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
strength laser pens to be bound. What is his response to that? -- to | :04:46. | :04:55. | |
be banned. As I said a a few moments ago, I met BALPA this week, they | :04:56. | :05:01. | |
came forward with some issues with laser pens, there is evidence about | :05:02. | :05:05. | |
the way the are used, they fall under the category of being illegal | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
to shine into someone's eyes and there have been more prosecutions. | :05:11. | :05:14. | |
It is something I willing to take further action on wanted to get | :05:15. | :05:17. | |
agreement on what the best way forward is. You may recall that this | :05:18. | :05:27. | |
time last month, I ask the Secretary of State's honourable friend that | :05:28. | :05:29. | |
after three years of talk about working groups, when we would be | :05:30. | :05:32. | |
told what the government was actually going to do about the | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
drones to civil aircraft. His answer left us in lies. -- left us number | :05:37. | :05:46. | |
wiser. This week the minister said in the written answer that he will | :05:47. | :05:55. | |
not even consult on anything until the European aviation agency has | :05:56. | :06:02. | |
consulted. Other countries have already brought in recession schemes | :06:03. | :06:06. | |
and other initiatives so when are we going to see clear proposals from | :06:07. | :06:09. | |
the government, without having to wait for the US president to come to | :06:10. | :06:16. | |
town? Think the point that the honourable member made in his quest, | :06:17. | :06:23. | |
he said it might have Been a drone action. Government acts on what will | :06:24. | :06:32. | |
be the danger, not what might be. We are in discussion with the BALPA and | :06:33. | :06:38. | |
the CAA to develop this. If the honourable member is saying all | :06:39. | :06:41. | |
drones should be banned completely this is something they never thought | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
about when they were in office. Question two. The framework and the | :06:47. | :06:54. | |
amount of Schedule 8 compensation is set by the committee of rails. -- | :06:55. | :07:04. | |
the rail regulator. She's welcome to raise concerns with them. I know the | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
Minister has concerns about Schedule 8 payments, as do I. It is | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
scandalous rail operators make millions from rail delays at the | :07:14. | :07:16. | |
expense of passengers are suffering from a poor standard of service. I | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
wonder what immediate steps the government might take to give power | :07:21. | :07:24. | |
to the regulator to insure any net profits made by train operators from | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
unplanned delays and cancellations caused by Network Rail go towards | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
improving rail passenger services across the country? Particularly in | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
light of the very low levels of passenger satisfaction? I thank her | :07:38. | :07:44. | |
for raising this issue very eloquently on several occasions, and | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
I know that these are part of the considerations of the current view. | :07:48. | :07:51. | |
She and I are as one on the view that the rail industry has to do | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
more to improve the current compensation payments which are | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
rather generous in absolute terms but not well advertised Orwell | :08:00. | :08:02. | |
claimed, and I am personally looking forward to bringing forward the | :08:03. | :08:08. | |
policy to reduce the delay threshold to 15 minutes. Our goal should be to | :08:09. | :08:12. | |
get trains running on time so passengers do not have to claim | :08:13. | :08:15. | |
compensation and that is what is underpinning this government's | :08:16. | :08:18. | |
record investment in the railway. Constituent of mine wishing to get | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
back-to-back sale after 9pm on a Monday or Tuesday are having to | :08:23. | :08:29. | |
undertake an large portion of the journey by replacement bus service, | :08:30. | :08:32. | |
that will be going on for the rest of this year. -- getting back to | :08:33. | :08:38. | |
excel. I declare an interest, this affects me. My intentions are ultra | :08:39. | :08:45. | |
stick, will the Minister meets with meal -- Alcester, will she meet with | :08:46. | :08:54. | |
me to see if they can do this work overnight? I will of course meet | :08:55. | :09:00. | |
with him and look at what can be done to speed up the repair of that | :09:01. | :09:06. | |
piece of work. It is the case that passengers are completely | :09:07. | :09:13. | |
inadequately, they did for delays, and I welcome her supporting my | :09:14. | :09:22. | |
campaign to half the delay time. Will she also support my campaign to | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
sack Southern, who have proven completely incapable of running a | :09:28. | :09:34. | |
railway service and should hand it over to TEFL? It is good that he is | :09:35. | :09:42. | |
supporting my campaign, we have discussed the Southern franchise | :09:43. | :09:45. | |
many times, it is difficult, there are record levels of engineering | :09:46. | :09:48. | |
works going on on the slide and we are doing all we can to ensure | :09:49. | :09:52. | |
passengers suffered the least disruption and get the compensation | :09:53. | :09:54. | |
to which they are entitled if their trains do not work on time. Schedule | :09:55. | :10:00. | |
8 compensation is not making it's way to my travelling public, one | :10:01. | :10:07. | |
actively contact me from Acton Main line, where there is no stuff, no | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
way of buying a ticket and no indicating board, one stop from | :10:12. | :10:18. | |
Paddington, it should not be a case of taking your life into the own | :10:19. | :10:25. | |
hands and looking into the Unknown. I am not going to give a boring | :10:26. | :10:30. | |
lecture on Schedule 8, it is slightly different to the point of | :10:31. | :10:37. | |
compensation paid to passengers under delay to pay, and it is right | :10:38. | :10:41. | |
that we bring forward proposals because the compensation threshold | :10:42. | :10:48. | |
is not worth a lot, one that is at 15 minutes is better, but her | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
constituents have a far greater choice of transport than any other | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
parts of the country. That is why we are investing across the country. | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
80% of passengers and title to a refund when their train is cancelled | :11:03. | :11:08. | |
or delayed make no claim, largely because train operating companies | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
make claiming too difficult. To improve passenger compensation | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
arrangements, the office of rail and road recommended that the provisions | :11:17. | :11:18. | |
of the consumer rights act should apply to rail. But this month, the | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
government further delayed this interjection by another year. Why is | :11:24. | :11:30. | |
it that train operating companies should have such beneficial | :11:31. | :11:33. | |
compensation arrangements, while the government intervenes to delay | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
giving passengers their right to compensation? The question that | :11:38. | :11:44. | |
comes to mind is why the honourable gentleman's government did nothing | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
about this for 13 years. Delay repay compensation levels have increased | :11:50. | :11:52. | |
eightfold over the last five years. There is far more to do. The actual | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
amount of compensation that is available is more generous in this | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
country than in all most any other country in Europe, but if I can just | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
assure him on the CRA exemption, the industry had argued for a permanent | :12:06. | :12:08. | |
exemption, I found that completely unacceptable. We have given the | :12:09. | :12:11. | |
industry time to adjust and make sure they get it right. The road | :12:12. | :12:21. | |
investment strategy announced the upgradable remaining sections of the | :12:22. | :12:26. | |
8303 between the M3 and a 358 to June carriage way standard together | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
with the upgrading of the 8358 in Somerset to the M5 at Taunton to the | :12:31. | :12:36. | |
A303 at Ilminster. Three major screams -- schemes are planned to | :12:37. | :12:44. | |
turn to process by 2020. I thank our excellent road ministers for stating | :12:45. | :12:47. | |
quite clearly the improvements from Stonehenge through to Ilminster | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
through to Taunton. Very much welcome. But there is a stretch from | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
Ilminster to harm at, which actually needs a little more improvement. | :12:56. | :12:59. | |
Therefore we have the cooperation of the Blackdown Hills society to give | :13:00. | :13:06. | |
a 60 mph Rd through onto Exeter to make sure we have that second | :13:07. | :13:09. | |
arterial route into Devon and on into Cornwall, so I would like an | :13:10. | :13:16. | |
update from our excellent minister. Detailed disposition from a | :13:17. | :13:19. | |
minister? I fear he probably won't be disappointed! LAUGHTER | :13:20. | :13:25. | |
Obviously I thank my honourable friend for that question. The first | :13:26. | :13:28. | |
road investment strategy did include some smaller scale improvements to | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
that section of the roads to improve safety and Jenny quality but it is a | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
very challenging area to make improvements, it is protected | :13:37. | :13:40. | |
landscape and a very dutiful area, as my honourable friend showed me | :13:41. | :13:42. | |
when he drove me along the route last summer time when I heard first | :13:43. | :13:45. | |
time the opportunity that was presented by investment. We have | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
started the process of the second road investment strategy, and they | :13:51. | :13:55. | |
are developing route strategies to improve that process. I will be | :13:56. | :13:59. | |
taking my honourable friend's contribution into that process and | :14:00. | :14:02. | |
make sure he is raised with on a constant basis. I would like to | :14:03. | :14:09. | |
welcome the upgrade of the A303, but particularly where it joins the | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
A358, and links from the 830. But a recent parish meeting I went to, it | :14:15. | :14:20. | |
was suggested the preferred options would come together by 2018, and | :14:21. | :14:25. | |
there was a certain bit of my drink from the audience about whether the | :14:26. | :14:27. | |
government would actually go ahead and build the road. So could the | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
Minister confirm that this will take place by 2020, as it is so crucial | :14:32. | :14:40. | |
for the wider south-west? I can understand there are some sinners is | :14:41. | :14:43. | |
on a local basis because the scheme has I think been cancelled by former | :14:44. | :14:48. | |
governments. However, let me just provides reassurance there. We are | :14:49. | :14:50. | |
looking at consultation starting next year, and the start of work in | :14:51. | :14:57. | |
early 2020, so I am happy to provide the assurance my honourable friend | :14:58. | :15:06. | |
once. The airports commission assessed the surface access | :15:07. | :15:09. | |
requirements of each short listed airport proposal as part of its work | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
published in July 20 15th, and estimated the cost of up to ?5 | :15:15. | :15:18. | |
billion for surface access works in relation to Heathrow Northwest | :15:19. | :15:25. | |
runway. Thank you, Mr Speaker, there are clearly widely differing | :15:26. | :15:29. | |
estimates as to the capital cost of building an additional runway at | :15:30. | :15:34. | |
Heathrow. But what is not in dispute is that building an additional | :15:35. | :15:37. | |
runway at Heathrow will cost significantly more than building an | :15:38. | :15:43. | |
additional runway at Gatwick. So my question, Mr Speaker, is if the | :15:44. | :15:46. | |
government does decide to go ahead with expanding Heathrow, who will | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
pay the difference? The airline passenger or the taxpayer? The | :15:52. | :15:57. | |
honourable lady is absolutely right that some of the estimates that have | :15:58. | :16:02. | |
been forecast for surface access to differ widely, even by the standards | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
of some economists, but one must bear in mind that these three sets | :16:07. | :16:09. | |
of figures includes different things over different time scales. The main | :16:10. | :16:13. | |
difference being the work is required exclusively for airport | :16:14. | :16:16. | |
capacity where the airport would be expected to make a major | :16:17. | :16:20. | |
contribution. Projects that support airport capacity but have wider | :16:21. | :16:24. | |
benefits and those in the TfL figures, which are needed for | :16:25. | :16:27. | |
economic growth over the next 20 or 30 years. Does the government have a | :16:28. | :16:33. | |
view on this, the airport commission figure just 5 billion, 2 billion | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
from Heathrow, the 18 billion from TfL? Is this not just 30 years of | :16:38. | :16:43. | |
disinformation we get out of Heathrow? When is the government | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
going to come to a decision on this and make its nuclear and stop | :16:48. | :16:52. | |
delaying it because of elections? If the honourable gentleman had been | :16:53. | :16:55. | |
paying attention, I did explain that these figures related from things | :16:56. | :16:58. | |
over different time scales. In relation to the decision, perhaps a | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
could wait until my honourable friend for Twickenham poses her | :17:03. | :17:07. | |
question to the Secretary of State. Mr Speaker, can the government give | :17:08. | :17:10. | |
us any indication of a construction time period from a decision taken | :17:11. | :17:15. | |
until a runway either at Gatwick or Heathrow is completed? It is | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
important to note that the additional time we are taking to | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
look at a number of economic and environmental factors will not delay | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
the delivery of a runway at whatever location is decided upon. | :17:30. | :17:37. | |
The government has committed ?600 million in this Parliament for the | :17:38. | :17:44. | |
uptake of electric vehicles. The UK has the largest network of rapid | :17:45. | :17:48. | |
charging point in Europe, with a total of 11,000 public charge | :17:49. | :17:51. | |
points. We will be announcing further details of the next phase of | :17:52. | :17:55. | |
plans to expand the UK's charging next work later this year. -- | :17:56. | :18:02. | |
network. I had a meeting a few weeks ago with Nissan, one of the | :18:03. | :18:07. | |
manufacturers here in the UK. They clearly put forward the significant | :18:08. | :18:11. | |
changes there has been in electric cars, better acceleration, better | :18:12. | :18:15. | |
power, longer battery life. I just want to ask this question, if we are | :18:16. | :18:19. | |
going to have better charging points, we need to have them on the | :18:20. | :18:24. | |
high Street, in the shopping centre. Those other ways forward, make them | :18:25. | :18:28. | |
accessible to whether people are and where the electric cars are. The | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
honourable gentleman is absolutely right, there are a much wider range | :18:33. | :18:35. | |
of vehicles to be chosen and many tilt in the United Kingdom. We have | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
seen a big increase last year, than in the last four years combined. I | :18:40. | :18:45. | |
am very pleased that Ulster was one of the UK's eight plug-in places, | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
which received ?19 million of funding from the office of lower | :18:50. | :18:55. | |
emissions vehicles. As the Minister will know, work has finally started | :18:56. | :18:59. | |
on the new Ilkeston train station, where I'm sure there will be at | :19:00. | :19:02. | |
least one charging point for electric cars. Despite this major | :19:03. | :19:12. | |
new -- this major new investment brings -- with this in mind can we | :19:13. | :19:16. | |
establish a new electric bus route to link the station at the town | :19:17. | :19:26. | |
centre? I tell my honourable friend that not only the great advantage of | :19:27. | :19:31. | |
electric cars, but electric buses. I was in Ulster lately at the right | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
bus factory where they have buses now that will go all day on a | :19:36. | :19:38. | |
charge, which would be perfect vehicles for the sort of project my | :19:39. | :19:44. | |
honourable friend suggests. It is not just physical but intellectual | :19:45. | :19:48. | |
infrastructure that is required to support the electric vehicle | :19:49. | :19:51. | |
industry, not least because of the extreme voltage is that I've truly | :19:52. | :19:53. | |
dangerous to people who don't know what they are doing, and because the | :19:54. | :19:56. | |
engines are entirely different from petrol and diesel. As the industry | :19:57. | :20:05. | |
for that -- the Ministry for the motor industry on sporting knowledge | :20:06. | :20:08. | |
of electric vehicles, and it is it something his department might be of | :20:09. | :20:13. | |
support? It is important that people who work in these vehicles are | :20:14. | :20:16. | |
adequately trained but I would caution him to suggest that electric | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
vehicles are more dangerous than the alternatives. Anyone who has seen a | :20:22. | :20:27. | |
petrol tank catch fire would realise that electric vehicles are actually | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
intrinsically safe. A number of important decisions on airport | :20:32. | :20:34. | |
capacity were taken by the government in December, including to | :20:35. | :20:38. | |
accept the case for expansion in the south-east. However, we must take | :20:39. | :20:40. | |
time to get the decision right on the preferred scheme. The government | :20:41. | :20:44. | |
is further considering the environment impacts, and the best | :20:45. | :20:47. | |
possible measures to mitigate the impacts of expansion. Thank you, Mr | :20:48. | :20:56. | |
Speaker. On March 24, as chair of the APPG on Heathrow, I wrote to | :20:57. | :21:01. | |
Secretary of State with 64 questions about his department was network in | :21:02. | :21:05. | |
this area. Unfortunately I have received answers to none. We'll be | :21:06. | :21:10. | |
Secretary of State except that important questions on noise, air | :21:11. | :21:14. | |
quality, deliverability are essential before he makes this | :21:15. | :21:19. | |
decision, in order to give confidence to the decision-making | :21:20. | :21:26. | |
process? When the decision is made, I will be accountable to the house, | :21:27. | :21:31. | |
to the reasons behind why certain decisions were taken, but what I | :21:32. | :21:35. | |
pointed out to my honourable friend in the letter I did reply to her on, | :21:36. | :21:39. | |
it would not be appropriate for me to provide a running commentary | :21:40. | :21:42. | |
until such time that the government has come to a final decision, and | :21:43. | :21:48. | |
that we will do. When we do that, we will be fully accountable for the | :21:49. | :21:50. | |
decisions and the recommendations that we make. Mr Speaker, isn't the | :21:51. | :21:56. | |
Minister at least a little ashamed at the fact that there has been a | :21:57. | :22:00. | |
major enquiry, it made its recommendations under Howard Davies, | :22:01. | :22:03. | |
nothing has happened? At the same time, we are putting all of our | :22:04. | :22:07. | |
national treasure into HS2, and by the time that comes in 2032, we will | :22:08. | :22:14. | |
find the driverless car has made it totally redundant. Mr Speaker, I | :22:15. | :22:18. | |
will take no lectures from a man who supported the government that saw | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
our position in the infrastructure league tables move from seven when | :22:23. | :22:27. | |
they entered government in 1997 down to 33rd by the time they left | :22:28. | :22:32. | |
government in 2010. The honourable gentleman says it was all his fault. | :22:33. | :22:36. | |
Well, that was his words and not mine. LAUGHTER | :22:37. | :22:49. | |
Mr Speaker, in Buckinghamshire, over 700 businesses have chosen to locate | :22:50. | :22:55. | |
their headquarters not least because of the proximity of that excellent | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
local airport, Heathrow. And far from building on the previous | :23:01. | :23:03. | |
question, I think it is fair to point out to the Secretary of State, | :23:04. | :23:09. | |
whereas HS2 brings absolutely no net economic benefit to Bucks, Heathrow | :23:10. | :23:15. | |
does, and it is a long time since Howard Davies reported. Could the | :23:16. | :23:18. | |
Secretary of State therefore get a wig along? LAUGHTER | :23:19. | :23:27. | |
-- get a wiggle on? Mr Speaker, you have chastised a few people this | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
morning for links with airports and HS2. While my right honourable | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
friend refers to Heathrow as her local airport, which I fully accept | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
I have not heard it described before as a local airport but it is a good | :23:41. | :23:45. | |
discretion in particular case, and indeed her constituents are well | :23:46. | :23:47. | |
connected to that particular airport. I also want to see other | :23:48. | :23:51. | |
parts of the country get the same opportunities that London is getting | :23:52. | :23:54. | |
in its transport connections as well. Mr Alan Brown. This decision | :23:55. | :24:07. | |
can impact Scottish airports. Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Secretary of | :24:08. | :24:14. | |
State's earlier comments, I think the government should provide a | :24:15. | :24:15. | |
running commentary about this important decision, so can the | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
Secretary of State state clearly as to what additional work is doing | :24:21. | :24:23. | |
about air quality, noise considerations, when the work will | :24:24. | :24:26. | |
be completed and what else the government needs to do to come to a | :24:27. | :24:31. | |
decision? I am afraid I disagree about providing a running | :24:32. | :24:35. | |
commentary, for the reasons which I pointed out in my earlier answers, | :24:36. | :24:39. | |
but that work is being done. I hope very soon to be able to come to a | :24:40. | :24:44. | |
house and informed the house and the house of the recommendations the | :24:45. | :24:52. | |
government is making. Thank you, Mr Speaker, the government is committed | :24:53. | :24:55. | |
to delivering the emissions reductions needed to meet our | :24:56. | :24:59. | |
climate change targets, including the uptake of low emission vehicles, | :25:00. | :25:03. | |
reducing emissions from the road freight sector and encouraging | :25:04. | :25:06. | |
sustainable choices such as walking and cycling. A quarter of the UK's | :25:07. | :25:13. | |
greenhouse gas emissions come from transport emissions, which the | :25:14. | :25:18. | |
government has pledged to cut. Will the minister follow the example of | :25:19. | :25:21. | |
the Scottish Government, who are committed to investing ?62.5 million | :25:22. | :25:28. | |
to create low-carbon infrastructure? I will certainly take no lessons | :25:29. | :25:32. | |
from the Scottish Government, in terms of low-carbon infrastructure | :25:33. | :25:35. | |
for stop one only has to look at the electrification programme on RL | :25:36. | :25:38. | |
ways. The fact is we have some very tough targets we are determined to | :25:39. | :25:41. | |
meet and we will set our fifth carbon budget later this year, and | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
we will publish our emissions reduction plan shortly afterwards. | :25:46. | :25:51. | |
Electric cars are a form of low-carbon transport. Given the | :25:52. | :25:56. | |
disaster in Normandy and in Finland by EDF with a nuclear power station | :25:57. | :26:02. | |
there, can the government explain whence the electricity for all these | :26:03. | :26:06. | |
electric cars? Certainly electric cars can benefit from electricity | :26:07. | :26:11. | |
overnight, and use that off-peak electricity very effectively. I for | :26:12. | :26:15. | |
one believe that nuclear generation will be part of our future energy | :26:16. | :26:16. | |
strategy. Too few companies in East Lancashire | :26:17. | :26:28. | |
offer the cycle to work scheme, what can the government do to extend the | :26:29. | :26:36. | |
scheme to areas like mine? We support it enthusiastically, I know | :26:37. | :26:40. | |
many companies can make sure that their employees get information | :26:41. | :26:43. | |
about picking up that scheme which is a great scheme, get a lot of | :26:44. | :26:49. | |
people onto two wheels, and reduces other carbon dioxide emissions and | :26:50. | :26:56. | |
other pollutants. The most low carb on forms of transport are cycling | :26:57. | :27:01. | |
and walking. Extraordinary, the government showed Easter Sunday to | :27:02. | :27:06. | |
release the long-awaited cycling and walking investment strategy, I can | :27:07. | :27:12. | |
understand why they did not want people to notice it because it is | :27:13. | :27:16. | |
long on aspiration but short on investment. Cycle UK have concluded | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
that by 2021, the amount of money spent on cycling outside London will | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
be 72p per head. How far does the Minister think that they can go on | :27:27. | :27:35. | |
72p? We should hang on a minute here. When we came to power in 2015, | :27:36. | :27:41. | |
we were spending ?2 per head, and at the end of the coalition, we were | :27:42. | :27:46. | |
spending ?6 per head. That is a very good record of investment in cycling | :27:47. | :27:50. | |
and in a spending review, the Chancellor confirmed over ?300 | :27:51. | :27:53. | |
million for cycling over five years in that spending review. Many of the | :27:54. | :27:58. | |
decisions have been made by local authorities which are still at least | :27:59. | :28:01. | |
some of them run by the Labour Party. I think that is an admissions | :28:02. | :28:09. | |
-- admission of Joe Mattock cut in cycling. Let us move on to walking, | :28:10. | :28:19. | |
as we approach walked to work week, the strategy has no measurable | :28:20. | :28:22. | |
targets were walking at all. When the minister was pressed in written | :28:23. | :28:30. | |
questions, he sidestepped. Why do we have to wait until 2025 to have | :28:31. | :28:35. | |
measurable targets? We are determined to increase levels of | :28:36. | :28:39. | |
walking, both children walking to school and people walking as part of | :28:40. | :28:43. | |
their everyday lives, many people see the importance of walking not | :28:44. | :28:46. | |
only in terms of improving transport infrastructure but also contributing | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
to clean area in our cities. Question ten. As my right honourable | :28:52. | :28:57. | |
friend knows Dorrell travel in this country is booming and a vital part | :28:58. | :29:01. | |
of the grid is ensuring that rail is accessible to all, including | :29:02. | :29:05. | |
passengers of disabilities, at every stage of the journey. The numbers | :29:06. | :29:10. | |
suggest that disabled people are using the railway in ever greater | :29:11. | :29:13. | |
numbers, the disabled Persons Railcard insect nation went up 12% | :29:14. | :29:20. | |
year-on-year, -- in circulation, a growth rate above those without | :29:21. | :29:26. | |
disabilities. The concourse at Birmingham International is going to | :29:27. | :29:29. | |
be improved to provide better access for the disabled, but could the | :29:30. | :29:32. | |
minister put pressure on the Chiltern line, where the gap between | :29:33. | :29:36. | |
the carriages and the platform is very high indeed, and would it not | :29:37. | :29:39. | |
be possible to replicate what TEFL do, I think at Westminster station | :29:40. | :29:50. | |
there is a raised platform in one section? We need a joined up | :29:51. | :29:53. | |
approach, we need the operators and Network Rail to work together. She | :29:54. | :29:57. | |
should be aware that any improvement works carried on the station have | :29:58. | :30:02. | |
two comply with UK disability standards. I am grateful to the | :30:03. | :30:09. | |
reply that she gave earlier. Given that we know that Network Rail have | :30:10. | :30:16. | |
financial issues, and ?50 million is being taken out of the access for | :30:17. | :30:19. | |
all skin, can the minister explained what pressure she can put on Network | :30:20. | :30:26. | |
Rail to make sure that stations like once in my constituency which are | :30:27. | :30:31. | |
not accidental to disabled people are upgraded to everyone can have | :30:32. | :30:35. | |
access to a good rail service? Many of the stations in country date from | :30:36. | :30:38. | |
Victorian times when this was not even an issue. I would like to point | :30:39. | :30:45. | |
out to him that access for all is a scheme of which we offer a proud, | :30:46. | :30:48. | |
almost half ?1 billion has been spent, money will be spent | :30:49. | :30:54. | |
continually, and stations were prioritised based on football. I | :30:55. | :30:57. | |
would be more than happy to look at the station to see if anything could | :30:58. | :31:02. | |
be done. We have to make sure the money is spent where people are | :31:03. | :31:06. | |
travelling. This to me is absolutely part of the railway for the future, | :31:07. | :31:11. | |
vital for people with disabilities to be able to access trains and | :31:12. | :31:14. | |
rolling stock will be fully to civility compliant by 2020. -- | :31:15. | :31:23. | |
Philippe disability compliant. I recognise the important role that | :31:24. | :31:28. | |
regional airports play in providing domestic and international | :31:29. | :31:31. | |
connections and admire the contribution they make to the growth | :31:32. | :31:33. | |
of rival contribution they make to the growth | :31:34. | :31:38. | |
of local economies. They operate within the local -- the private | :31:39. | :31:45. | |
sector and it is up to them to get people into them. Inward tourism is | :31:46. | :31:55. | |
very important in my area, my local at Port has no connection to London. | :31:56. | :32:00. | |
From the discussion in this chamber, no sign of a connection to London. | :32:01. | :32:07. | |
But the minister consider a strategy to connect local airports to bring | :32:08. | :32:13. | |
in inward tourists? The honourable lady talks about connections and | :32:14. | :32:17. | |
conductivity into London, that is one of the reasons why the Davis | :32:18. | :32:30. | |
commission was support. -- was commissioned to report. We need to | :32:31. | :32:33. | |
bear in mind regional conductivity and give reassurance to people who | :32:34. | :32:37. | |
want further service from regional airport into London, they will get | :32:38. | :32:42. | |
that opportunity. I am reliably informed that Cornwall Newquay | :32:43. | :32:44. | |
airport is the fastest-growing regional airport in the country, and | :32:45. | :32:49. | |
can I thank the aviation Minister for his support in helping us to | :32:50. | :32:52. | |
open a new route from Newquay to Leeds Bradford. Going forward it | :32:53. | :32:59. | |
will be essential that original air connectivity is in place to make | :33:00. | :33:04. | |
sure that as our economy grows, the benefit of felt across the country. | :33:05. | :33:08. | |
Can he confirm the regional connectivity fund will continue to | :33:09. | :33:11. | |
be available to help small and regional airport open up their | :33:12. | :33:17. | |
roots? Where they are qualifying, I am grateful that the roots do | :33:18. | :33:25. | |
qualify, it is available. It has made an important difference, it is | :33:26. | :33:29. | |
a route that I have used in a number of occasions to go down to his | :33:30. | :33:36. | |
constituency and others in Cornwall. The Minister will know that London | :33:37. | :33:39. | |
Luton Airport is undergoing a substantial and welcome expansion, | :33:40. | :33:44. | |
but there is spare capacity at Birmingham Airport. It could make a | :33:45. | :33:52. | |
significant contribution to the journey if there was an upgrade of | :33:53. | :34:00. | |
the railway line linking Birmingham Airport Crossrail and therefore to | :34:01. | :34:05. | |
Heathrow. I figure the honourable gentleman that he is always making | :34:06. | :34:11. | |
-- I say to the honourable gentleman that he is with making the case for | :34:12. | :34:17. | |
traditional local links and he is not so keen on high-speed links. I | :34:18. | :34:22. | |
commend what is happening at Luiten airport, I was there to see the | :34:23. | :34:25. | |
start of the work a few months ago and the regeneration going on there, | :34:26. | :34:28. | |
it is rain poured and it is proving very important for the area as well. | :34:29. | :34:37. | |
Number 12. This department is providing over ?7 billion to the | :34:38. | :34:41. | |
local growth fund which will fund over 500 local transport projects by | :34:42. | :34:45. | |
the end of the parliament. As part of that fund, we have launched a new | :34:46. | :34:51. | |
?425 million fund for transformational local transport | :34:52. | :34:54. | |
schemes which are too large for the main allocations and we have invited | :34:55. | :34:57. | |
local enterprise partnerships to bid by July. The construction of the 20 | :34:58. | :35:09. | |
year weighted by past here will open up employment land and support the | :35:10. | :35:13. | |
regional economy by creating jobs. Will the Minister meet with me and | :35:14. | :35:16. | |
Cheshire East council representatives to discuss the | :35:17. | :35:20. | |
merits of a funding application for this project? I am happy to have | :35:21. | :35:24. | |
that meeting particularly if she involves the local enterprise | :35:25. | :35:26. | |
partnership, who are central to putting together these bits and | :35:27. | :35:30. | |
ensuring that where we do have these types of investments, they are | :35:31. | :35:34. | |
important for the economy to the local region, and some of the | :35:35. | :35:39. | |
Council representatives. With the Minister look carefully at the plans | :35:40. | :35:43. | |
being forwarded by the Mersey the Alliance for a strategic rail link | :35:44. | :35:46. | |
direct to Manchester Airport, which had a dual benefit of speeding up | :35:47. | :35:50. | |
traffic to Manchester Airport but also taking cars of the motorway? | :35:51. | :35:57. | |
That is the kind of project that transport for North will be looking | :35:58. | :36:03. | |
at, and I understand the importance of good surface connectivity so | :36:04. | :36:09. | |
airports can continue to grow. Manchester Airport is an example for | :36:10. | :36:13. | |
others to follow. The government has given considerable amounts of money | :36:14. | :36:19. | |
to the Labour dominated west Yorkshire combined authority who | :36:20. | :36:22. | |
spend most of their money in the Labour heartlands, ignoring the | :36:23. | :36:27. | |
needs of areas such as mine. Things like the Shipley Eastern bypass | :36:28. | :36:30. | |
which is vital for my local economy. What can the Minister do to make | :36:31. | :36:34. | |
sure that the government's money is spent in areas like Shipley as one | :36:35. | :36:38. | |
of the Labour heartlands, or if he cannot persuade them to do that, | :36:39. | :36:42. | |
will heed directly fund a Shipley Eastern I pass that my -- bypass | :36:43. | :36:50. | |
that my constituents need? One of the important changes that has | :36:51. | :36:53. | |
happened since we have moved from the RDA to having local enterprise | :36:54. | :36:58. | |
partnerships is that it is the business and economic considerations | :36:59. | :37:01. | |
that are considered more than maybe some local political objectives, | :37:02. | :37:04. | |
that is a great change we have brought in and far less pork barrel | :37:05. | :37:09. | |
politics going on in Yorkshire, I hope. There are number of major | :37:10. | :37:16. | |
transport projects in the northern powerhouse but they seem to omit | :37:17. | :37:20. | |
West Cumbria. Will the government do to look at how we can prove our | :37:21. | :37:24. | |
transport inks, particularly looking at the nuclear developers we have | :37:25. | :37:30. | |
locally? We understand that all parts of the country including the | :37:31. | :37:34. | |
peripheral parts benefit from transport investment which is why it | :37:35. | :37:42. | |
is good news that this government does understand that, unlike the | :37:43. | :37:45. | |
previous government that did not see it as a priority. Question 13. My | :37:46. | :37:52. | |
noble friend the Parliamentary undersecretary of state has been in | :37:53. | :37:57. | |
discussion with the driver and vehicle standards agency about | :37:58. | :38:00. | |
trialling changes to the practical driving test to make it more | :38:01. | :38:03. | |
effective in modern driving traditions. We have also been in | :38:04. | :38:10. | |
discussion about future provision of the UK driving theory test. I have | :38:11. | :38:15. | |
received a number of concerns from driving instructors and pupils about | :38:16. | :38:19. | |
significant delays in obtaining dates for tests at the Bletchley | :38:20. | :38:25. | |
Centre in my constituency. DVSA said they are investing more resources | :38:26. | :38:29. | |
but it remains an issue. May he take this up urgently with the new Chief | :38:30. | :38:36. | |
Executive? Demand for driving tests have been increasing rapidly, it has | :38:37. | :38:41. | |
gone up by over 50% since 2013 and we expect that to continue. We have | :38:42. | :38:46. | |
seen the same pattern in HGV tests. The DVSA has responded by bringing | :38:47. | :38:53. | |
in more examiners, and improving forecasting, redeploying examiners | :38:54. | :38:58. | |
to those centres of higher waiting times. I would be happy to take up | :38:59. | :39:02. | |
the Bletchley Centre with the new chief executive. We are also getting | :39:03. | :39:07. | |
complaints in Kettering about delays for driving tests and cancellations | :39:08. | :39:14. | |
of appointment, can our excellent road Minister gets on top of this | :39:15. | :39:18. | |
before it gets out of control? I am happy to take forward these issues | :39:19. | :39:22. | |
wherever we have local problems, for any colleague in these houses, with | :39:23. | :39:32. | |
the DVSA. Under 14. On the 27th of March, during the Easter break when | :39:33. | :39:36. | |
people had plenty of time to read it, we publish the draft cycling and | :39:37. | :39:41. | |
walking strategy. We want everyone in the country including those in | :39:42. | :39:48. | |
rural areas to have access to safe and attractive cycling routes. Local | :39:49. | :39:50. | |
authorities have a detailed understanding of their roots and | :39:51. | :39:54. | |
have the best knowledge of where cyclists could be placed on local | :39:55. | :39:59. | |
roads. Safe and attractive cycling routes are important but a number of | :40:00. | :40:04. | |
cyclists have written to me about the problem of potholes and cycling, | :40:05. | :40:08. | |
something of which I have personal experience and the scars to prove | :40:09. | :40:12. | |
it, I do not intend to show my honourable friend where it is. Will | :40:13. | :40:16. | |
he join me in welcoming the 28.4 million that Lincolnshire County | :40:17. | :40:20. | |
Council are receiving in this year for highways maintenance in terms of | :40:21. | :40:24. | |
financial assistance? Will he also encourage highways officers in | :40:25. | :40:27. | |
Lincolnshire to keep doing what they can to reduce the risks to cyclists | :40:28. | :40:31. | |
from the dangerous potholes? Lincolnshire is a wonderful county | :40:32. | :40:36. | |
to cycle in not least because it is relatively flat. The government has | :40:37. | :40:43. | |
allocated substantial funds for the repair of potholes. I would | :40:44. | :40:46. | |
encourage local authorities to concentrate on how effectively they | :40:47. | :40:50. | |
are using that money, there is some good new technology which will mean | :40:51. | :40:53. | |
that not only potholes can be repaired but they will stay | :40:54. | :40:57. | |
repaired. We often hear stories about temporary repairs opened up | :40:58. | :40:58. | |
quickly. Mr Speaker, in the last six years we | :40:59. | :41:08. | |
have electrified five times as many miles of track than the previous | :41:09. | :41:11. | |
Labour government did in 13 years, and almost all of this work has been | :41:12. | :41:15. | |
in the North of England. I call that good progress. Perhaps the Minister | :41:16. | :41:20. | |
can explain to me why the hundred million pound or to Selby privately | :41:21. | :41:28. | |
financed rail electrification scheme has been stuck in the Department for | :41:29. | :41:34. | |
Transport for nearly two years now? Her department is announcing schemes | :41:35. | :41:38. | |
like the 27 billion is the Crossrail two between Hertfordshire and | :41:39. | :41:40. | |
Surbiton but if she is really serious about the Northern | :41:41. | :41:43. | |
Powerhouse, why can she not get a break alarm and get this privately | :41:44. | :41:53. | |
financed scheme actually happening? I think that is Humberside for a | :41:54. | :41:58. | |
wiggle, but I completely share the lady's enthusiasm for faster rail | :41:59. | :42:03. | |
for her constituents, which is why the new franchise that we let last | :42:04. | :42:07. | |
year will give her constituents brand new trains, more services, | :42:08. | :42:14. | |
more direct connections, and Hull is getting 1.4 million for its new | :42:15. | :42:16. | |
station in time for it to take its pride of place in time for the UK | :42:17. | :42:21. | |
city of culture 2017. She should be pleased that. We may be losing our | :42:22. | :42:28. | |
direct link to South Manchester and the airport through Piccadilly. Why | :42:29. | :42:31. | |
is this happening and how is it progress? Mr Speaker, the honourable | :42:32. | :42:38. | |
gentleman is raising a service question to me that I am not a cross | :42:39. | :42:46. | |
but I will get back to him. Topical questions. We continue to do that on | :42:47. | :42:51. | |
issues that affect the motorist. Following the findings last year | :42:52. | :43:02. | |
to ensure that similar devices were not present on other models. The | :43:03. | :43:08. | |
test confirmed that they were not, but the tests did confirm that | :43:09. | :43:11. | |
existing lab tests designed to ensure emission limits were met are | :43:12. | :43:16. | |
inadequate, and this is why we have been at the forefront of securing a | :43:17. | :43:21. | |
tough new European wide real driving test emissions tests. We also have | :43:22. | :43:29. | |
announced further funding to help with the problem of potholes based | :43:30. | :43:35. | |
across the country. Mr Speaker, I recently completed a blindfolded | :43:36. | :43:39. | |
walk with that excellent charity, guide dogs, to try to understand the | :43:40. | :43:41. | |
challenges faced by visually impaired people. I am greatly | :43:42. | :43:47. | |
supportive of their campaign to improve access for guide dog owners | :43:48. | :43:52. | |
with the dogs. It is not right that they can often be refused access to | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
businesses and services because the dogs with them. What steps is the | :43:58. | :44:03. | |
Secretary of State taking to ensure that taxi and private vehicle | :44:04. | :44:07. | |
drivers receive adequate disability awareness training, because there | :44:08. | :44:10. | |
are still a large number of guide dog owners that are being turned | :44:11. | :44:13. | |
away from these vital transport services? Mr Speaker, I am grateful | :44:14. | :44:19. | |
for the point my honourable friend makes and entirely agree with the | :44:20. | :44:24. | |
point she makes. Taxi and private trading higher vehicles are | :44:25. | :44:27. | |
essential for many disabled people. Drivers are required to make | :44:28. | :44:31. | |
reasonable adjustments for disabled passengers, and it is a criminal | :44:32. | :44:36. | |
offence to refuse and assistance dog. Failure to comply with this | :44:37. | :44:39. | |
requirement cameras in prosecution and a fine on conviction up to | :44:40. | :44:48. | |
?1000. A driver was recently fined ?1546 for refusing access to a guide | :44:49. | :44:53. | |
dog, which includes a legal costs, Inc ordering -- in addition to the | :44:54. | :44:56. | |
fine, and I think that message needs to go out right across the whole | :44:57. | :44:59. | |
industry and we will draw it to the attention of the licensing | :45:00. | :45:08. | |
authorities. On Monday, the Ministry of state said Volkswagen Arena fixed | :45:09. | :45:13. | |
any cars yet in this country. Mr Speaker, Knox emissions pose a | :45:14. | :45:18. | |
serious health risk to drivers, and everyone, and as he acknowledged, we | :45:19. | :45:22. | |
now know that all manufacturers produce diesel models that pollute | :45:23. | :45:32. | |
above approved limits. How is he going to affect nox emissions, and | :45:33. | :45:35. | |
will he take further action that when it comes to Volkswagen the UK | :45:36. | :45:40. | |
is not left at the back of the queue? The Ministry of state and | :45:41. | :45:46. | |
myself have been dealing with this matter but before I get to being | :45:47. | :45:51. | |
attacked for not doing sufficient, I think the honourable lady needs to | :45:52. | :45:53. | |
remind who started the - the diesel. He reduced diesel cars to 20% of the | :45:54. | :46:18. | |
UK fleet. Of course those decisions were based on the science at the | :46:19. | :46:25. | |
time. But as he knows, American owners may be entitled up to $5,000 | :46:26. | :46:30. | |
in compensation while the owners of 1.2 million VW vehicles in this | :46:31. | :46:34. | |
country are not receiving a penny. Last week, the number ten press | :46:35. | :46:38. | |
machine was assuring us that the Transport Secretary has pressed VW | :46:39. | :46:41. | |
on the specific issue of this discrepancy of compensation. But on | :46:42. | :46:46. | |
Monday the ministry of state said compensation was a matter for the | :46:47. | :46:48. | |
courts and not ministers. Mr Speaker, this is a matter of basic | :46:49. | :46:53. | |
fairness. So when is the Transport Secretary going to step up a gear | :46:54. | :46:56. | |
and fight for a decent compensation deal for UK Volkswagen drivers? We | :46:57. | :47:02. | |
have made it perfectly clear, I have made it clear in meetings I have | :47:03. | :47:07. | |
had, my honourable friend the Minister of State has made it clear | :47:08. | :47:11. | |
not just with box wagon but other manufacturers as well, that this is | :47:12. | :47:15. | |
a subject we take very seriously. We want to see action taking place, but | :47:16. | :47:18. | |
I am glad the honourable lady said that was based when she responded to | :47:19. | :47:24. | |
the huge increase in diesel cars in this country. It was based on | :47:25. | :47:28. | |
evidence at the time. It just shows not the proper research was done at | :47:29. | :47:34. | |
the time. The Minister will be aware the House of Lords has recently | :47:35. | :47:39. | |
completed a review into the impact into the equality act on disabled | :47:40. | :47:44. | |
people, a large part of which focused on accessible at it to taxes | :47:45. | :47:48. | |
and private hire vehicles. Can the house be updated on this? I can | :47:49. | :47:57. | |
indeed update the house. The government is committed to ensuring | :47:58. | :48:00. | |
that disabled people have the same access to transport services and | :48:01. | :48:03. | |
opportunities to travel as everybody is within our society. We plan to | :48:04. | :48:08. | |
comment sections 165 and 167 of the equality act 2010 by the end of this | :48:09. | :48:12. | |
year. I was pleased to see this raised in the Lords report. I had | :48:13. | :48:15. | |
been working on it for some time in this section will require drivers to | :48:16. | :48:18. | |
provide assistance to wheelchair users and a friend from charging | :48:19. | :48:25. | |
extra. Will the Minister take the trouble to come to the north-east | :48:26. | :48:32. | |
and take the train from Lumb for Middlesbrough to Newcastle, an | :48:33. | :48:34. | |
ancient place of train that takes almost 90 minutes, you could almost | :48:35. | :48:39. | |
do the journey quicker by bicycle. If we had a new train every time | :48:40. | :48:42. | |
they had been an announcement that they would be replaced, we would | :48:43. | :48:45. | |
have a whole fleet. But if a minister came and got a wiggle on, | :48:46. | :48:53. | |
it might... LAUGHTER I think I need a bit of mentoring in | :48:54. | :48:59. | |
some dialect that is being used this morning. What I would say is that in | :49:00. | :49:08. | |
the 13 years that the last government were in operation, they | :49:09. | :49:13. | |
did nothing to improve the system. I am very glad to say that by 2020 | :49:14. | :49:17. | |
there will be new trains operating on the lines he is talking about, as | :49:18. | :49:22. | |
a result of a decision I took which to override the advice and to | :49:23. | :49:26. | |
instruct the permanent secretary that we would have new trains on | :49:27. | :49:29. | |
that particular line and it is a decision I am very proud. Network | :49:30. | :49:37. | |
Rail, every time I come across it, seems to have a great deal of power | :49:38. | :49:42. | |
but to be utterly unaccountable to central government. As we are seeing | :49:43. | :49:44. | |
in Lincolnshire, that power that Network Rail has can be used to | :49:45. | :49:48. | |
frustrate growth infrastructure schemes which have the support of | :49:49. | :49:51. | |
local authorities. What can be done by my right honourable friend to | :49:52. | :49:55. | |
ensure that Network Rail does not surrender schemes in the best | :49:56. | :49:57. | |
interests of local people and are supported by local authorities? Mr | :49:58. | :50:03. | |
Speaker, the best schemes are those that are strongly supported by local | :50:04. | :50:08. | |
authorities and local businesses, and Network Rail is in a new phase | :50:09. | :50:11. | |
where the root responsibility will be devolved, and they will be | :50:12. | :50:14. | |
working to a set of investment plans agreed based on a very important | :50:15. | :50:20. | |
bottom-up analysis. Over the last ten years, the destination and | :50:21. | :50:24. | |
routes from Scotland have doubled, flights to London have fallen by | :50:25. | :50:27. | |
more than a third. Not only do we need starter routes, but up the | :50:28. | :50:33. | |
frequency in these routes and guarantee them, which would allow | :50:34. | :50:36. | |
them to bed in and be fully established. Will the Minister | :50:37. | :50:40. | |
establish a point-to-point public service obligation, including | :50:41. | :50:43. | |
specific regional hub airports, and do all he can to create BSOs for | :50:44. | :50:49. | |
airports such as in sky in my constituency. We understand that | :50:50. | :50:57. | |
importance. I am very pleased we have seen such a successful uptake | :50:58. | :51:01. | |
of these, and a number of routes have been studied which have not | :51:02. | :51:11. | |
acquired subsidies. The slogan of cross-country trains is going that | :51:12. | :51:14. | |
bit further, and my constituents would be delighted if they did | :51:15. | :51:17. | |
exactly that and instruct did more than three out of 63 trains on the | :51:18. | :51:22. | |
InterCity service between Birmingham and Bristol to stop at the city of | :51:23. | :51:27. | |
Gloucester. Would my honourable friend confirm whether the | :51:28. | :51:30. | |
department would require cross-country to restore decent | :51:31. | :51:33. | |
services on that line is part of their franchise extension? Nobody | :51:34. | :51:38. | |
could be more assiduous in calling for those service requirements, but | :51:39. | :51:44. | |
of course what we must not have his services to cities like Cheltenham | :51:45. | :51:49. | |
lost as a change he is requiring. I can confirm discussions are ongoing. | :51:50. | :51:52. | |
We have asked cross-country to report on the best way to deliver | :51:53. | :51:56. | |
the services he is talking about. I am looking forward to discussing | :51:57. | :52:08. | |
that with him shortly. Despite the Secretary of State's pride, the | :52:09. | :52:11. | |
North remains hugely underinvested in transport terms in comparison | :52:12. | :52:16. | |
with London especially by a ratio of 24 to one. Now ministers are saying | :52:17. | :52:19. | |
they are going to cut the subsidy to the Northern franchise by up to 85%. | :52:20. | :52:24. | |
Does he really think it adds to the credibility of the Northern | :52:25. | :52:29. | |
powerhouse that it takes half a day to cross it didn't trains better | :52:30. | :52:34. | |
suited to a railway museum? What I would like to offer politicians is | :52:35. | :52:37. | |
another briefing about what these new franchises are going to deliver. | :52:38. | :52:42. | |
It sounds a bit like the generation game, Mr Speaker, but her | :52:43. | :52:44. | |
constituents, thanks to my government, are going to get rid of | :52:45. | :52:48. | |
those outdated trains, get many more services and much better quality, | :52:49. | :52:51. | |
and that will be delivered at less cost to the taxpayer. Only a Labour | :52:52. | :52:59. | |
politician could argue for worse services and less subsidy, Mr | :53:00. | :53:04. | |
Speaker. We have been very positive about the new Northern rain -- | :53:05. | :53:07. | |
Northern Rail franchise but there are throngs of people who want to | :53:08. | :53:11. | |
get from Leeds to Google, but are incapable of doing that at the | :53:12. | :53:15. | |
moment, and there may even be some who want to get from Google to | :53:16. | :53:18. | |
Leeds. They are unable to the moment. It is the same on the break | :53:19. | :53:22. | |
to Sheffield line. Very underutilised lines. What | :53:23. | :53:27. | |
opportunities and -- are there to get those improved services and will | :53:28. | :53:30. | |
the Minister come and ride the train with us? I think the Honourable | :53:31. | :53:39. | |
Speaker wanted the rail minister, rather than him. LAUGHTER | :53:40. | :53:44. | |
I think he is lumbered with the Secretary of State! What he wants | :53:45. | :53:48. | |
and what he gets, Mr Speaker, our two entirely different points. | :53:49. | :53:54. | |
LAUGHTER I am very grateful to my honourable | :53:55. | :54:00. | |
friend for talking about the need to improve capacity on the networks, | :54:01. | :54:03. | |
and I am very interested here of all the people that wish to travel, | :54:04. | :54:10. | |
lying, I think the new rail franchise given for the North will | :54:11. | :54:13. | |
give a tremendous increase in capacity, and a lot of new routes, | :54:14. | :54:17. | |
and we will see whether his arguments stand up. With the 400th | :54:18. | :54:24. | |
anniversary of the Pilgrim Fathers, can we get a helping hand to do up | :54:25. | :54:29. | |
Retford railway station, including the car parking, so that people can | :54:30. | :54:34. | |
see the best of British when they visit my area? Mr Speaker, I think | :54:35. | :54:41. | |
the honourable member is far more familiar with Retford station than I | :54:42. | :54:46. | |
am afraid I am, but it is certainly something that would be considered | :54:47. | :54:50. | |
in the local growth fund, and I would suggest that he goes through | :54:51. | :54:56. | |
the necessary procedures to encourage his Citroen two to apply | :54:57. | :55:02. | |
for it. The road master velocity patch can fill 300 potholes in a | :55:03. | :55:06. | |
day, and Lincolnshire has got one! But we would like more. What can the | :55:07. | :55:13. | |
Minister offer my county council by way of help to either get more, and | :55:14. | :55:19. | |
would he consider incentivising councils to work together so that we | :55:20. | :55:23. | |
can increase the nationwide fleet of these fantastic machines? I am aware | :55:24. | :55:34. | |
of the road master velocity patch. The government certainly supports | :55:35. | :55:38. | |
the use of innovative and efficient methods. -- Roadmaster Velocity | :55:39. | :55:51. | |
Patcher. Valli it includes an element of collaboration, so I would | :55:52. | :55:54. | |
like to see local authorities working with their neighbours right | :55:55. | :55:57. | |
across the country in exactly the same way as my honourable friend | :55:58. | :56:02. | |
describes. The Minister clearly enjoys a life of undiluted | :56:03. | :56:05. | |
excitement! LAUGHTER Mr Carmichael. What is the | :56:06. | :56:12. | |
government doing to stem the flow of job losses amongst British qualified | :56:13. | :56:18. | |
seafarers? And particular, will be shipping minister have a look at how | :56:19. | :56:22. | |
some of our own regulation is operating here? My constituents tell | :56:23. | :56:26. | |
me that the operation of the certificates of the equivalent in | :56:27. | :56:29. | |
confidence for example putting them at a disadvantage, compared to | :56:30. | :56:33. | |
seafarers from other parts of the world. | :56:34. | :56:38. | |
Thank you. We certainly have the best qualified seafarers in the | :56:39. | :56:45. | |
world, not due in no small part to the schemes and funding of ?15 | :56:46. | :56:50. | |
million per year. It is of concern if people less qualified are taking | :56:51. | :56:53. | |
jobs and I know of particular problems in the North Sea and this | :56:54. | :56:58. | |
is something I would be very pleased to talk about with the honourable | :56:59. | :57:02. | |
gentleman in more detail. Can my honourable friend reassure me that | :57:03. | :57:09. | |
the Department is investing in in apprentice training programmes so | :57:10. | :57:13. | |
that the country has the skills to carry on without world leading | :57:14. | :57:16. | |
transport programme and improvements? I can indeed give my | :57:17. | :57:21. | |
honourable friend that insurance -- assurance. The strategy sets targets | :57:22. | :57:27. | |
for ensuring apprenticeship throughout the scheme and will | :57:28. | :57:31. | |
deliver them within contracts. One apprenticeship will be created for | :57:32. | :57:37. | |
everyone with ?5 million worth of scheme and they are at the heart of | :57:38. | :57:43. | |
our agenda. I will freely admit I want the Secretary of State and I | :57:44. | :57:49. | |
hope I am going to get him, because he has visited my constituency and | :57:50. | :57:56. | |
he knows it is being used as a slip road off the M25 through a | :57:57. | :58:00. | |
residential area with a very serious accident area -- accident record and | :58:01. | :58:05. | |
a lot of freight coming into North London using it as a wheat to | :58:06. | :58:10. | |
central London. Can I ask him in good faith to meet with me and two | :58:11. | :58:15. | |
of the leading resident representatives to discuss this | :58:16. | :58:18. | |
very, very serious issue and find a satisfactory way forward? Sometimes | :58:19. | :58:28. | |
you get what you want, Mr Speaker. I'm more than happy to meet the | :58:29. | :58:31. | |
honourable member on this. There does seem to be some confusion as to | :58:32. | :58:35. | |
whether it is a matter for transport for London or highways England, but | :58:36. | :58:41. | |
that is no answer to the people suffering the problems. It is a very | :58:42. | :58:46. | |
difficult area to deal with because of all the residential implications | :58:47. | :58:53. | |
but we will have that meeting. I don't really care who answers the | :58:54. | :58:57. | |
question, but from the minister's description earlier, the local major | :58:58. | :59:03. | |
transports fund could have been made for the Southern Link project in | :59:04. | :59:09. | |
Worcester that I understand a bit with the tinfoil and can I say to | :59:10. | :59:12. | |
the Secretary of State and his team that they should be no wiggle room | :59:13. | :59:19. | |
for them in approving this project? I visited almost a year ago to the | :59:20. | :59:27. | |
day the site which my honourable friend refers to. I viewed | :59:28. | :59:33. | |
Carrington Bridge from a site which was previously opened by his father | :59:34. | :59:39. | |
some 30 years before that. I think the point that my honourable friend | :59:40. | :59:44. | |
makes about this being a suitable scheme for the local major 's fund | :59:45. | :59:46. | |
is one that should be considered and I urge the local authority to put an | :59:47. | :59:53. | |
application in for it to be considered. Will the Secretary of | :59:54. | :59:58. | |
State work with the new Labour, obviously, man of London to ensure | :59:59. | :00:06. | |
the effective development of the HS2 Crossrail interchange? Will he | :00:07. | :00:08. | |
revisit the deal that he did with the current Mayor of London in 2014 | :00:09. | :00:12. | |
which means that no development can take place on the site unless there | :00:13. | :00:19. | |
is a very expensive movement of the lines almost as soon as they open? | :00:20. | :00:29. | |
Unlike the honourable member, I take no elections for granted but I very | :00:30. | :00:34. | |
much hope the London mayor will be the honourable member for Richmond | :00:35. | :00:39. | |
who will work better with the Government banned the honourable | :00:40. | :00:44. | |
member for teaching. As far as the comment goes, it is important when | :00:45. | :00:47. | |
we talk about the infrastructure where that site is concerned, it is | :00:48. | :00:52. | |
going to be a major transport hub in the United Kingdom and getting it | :00:53. | :00:59. | |
right is very important. The Department has responsibilities to a | :01:00. | :01:04. | |
lumber of local and national transport infrastructure projects | :01:05. | :01:11. | |
and will the member of state right into contracts that we will put you | :01:12. | :01:16. | |
at British Steel for these projects? I am very happy to say that we have | :01:17. | :01:21. | |
made a number of changes to our procurement process to exactly | :01:22. | :01:23. | |
reflect the point is that my honourable friend makes and where | :01:24. | :01:28. | |
ever we can, we should be supporting our own industry. It has to be on a | :01:29. | :01:36. | |
fair basis. There are special cases around British Steel and 98% of the | :01:37. | :01:42. | |
bridge -ish -- this deal we purchase is British Steel. Urgent question, | :01:43. | :01:51. | |
Mr Bernard Jenkin. I am most grateful to ask the Prime Minister | :01:52. | :01:58. | |
if he will ask for an enquiry to be launched on whether discussions | :01:59. | :02:04. | |
between the trade unions and the Labour Party on amendments of the | :02:05. | :02:10. | |
trade union Beale -- trade union bill constitute a breach of the | :02:11. | :02:20. | |
conduct. The Cabinet Office has advised me that there is no breach | :02:21. | :02:24. | |
and nothing for the priming is to's adviser on ministerial interest to | :02:25. | :02:30. | |
investigate. As is customary at such times, ministers have had regular | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
discussions with Jago ministers to discuss possible... On the basis of | :02:36. | :02:47. | |
discussions yesterday evening, I can reassure my honourable friend that | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
we are well on our way to ensuring all of our manifesto commitments. | :02:53. | :02:56. | |
Reforms to the role of the acidification of this, a tightening | :02:57. | :03:03. | |
up of rules around the location time, and introduction of a | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
transparent opt in process and a tightening up of intimidation of | :03:08. | :03:10. | |
non-striking members. The question of compulsory opt in to trade union | :03:11. | :03:18. | |
funds was one of the most contentious, especially in the | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
Lords. The Lords referred it to a special committee. Following the | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
select committee's report, the House of Lords voted by a large majority | :03:28. | :03:34. | |
to accept an amendment to restrict the opt in to new members and | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
exclude current trade union members. My honourable friend will not be | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
surprised to learn that I speak to trade unions and the secretary of | :03:44. | :03:54. | |
the TUC regularly. Trade union support for the campaign to remain | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
in the European Union is not new and should not come aces -- as a | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
surprise to anybody. The TUC declared its support in February, eg | :04:03. | :04:08. | |
you be -- DNB did the same in February, unite in March and Unison | :04:09. | :04:19. | |
in April. We all remember the Prime Minister for telling that the next | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
scandal would be a lobbying scandal and had -- here it is. Trade union | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
members have been complaining that have been unable to campaign for the | :04:29. | :04:51. | |
in... The result of this amendment means that a 19-year-old who has | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
just started a job and is a member of a trade union will now never be | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
asked if he wants his political fund subscriptions to be taken out of his | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
pay packet. The Prime Minister told the House of Commons on the 15th of | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
July last year, there is a very simple principle here. Giving money | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
to a party should be an act of free will, money should not be taken out | :05:14. | :05:16. | |
of pay packets without them being told properly about it. He likened | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
it to mis-selling. The minister in the Other Place described the | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
Labour's amendment, which the Government has accepted, as a | :05:27. | :05:30. | |
wrecking amendment on the 16th of March this year. Yesterday, the | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
Minister's concession was wholly unexpected and my right honourable | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
friend for Grantham and Stanford announced his decision to abandon | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
the opposition to the bill. It is now being reported that these | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
unexpected concessions are linked to the question of a ?1.7 million | :05:50. | :05:55. | |
donation that trade unions make from their political funds, which are now | :05:56. | :05:58. | |
much larger than they would have been, to the Labour remain campaign. | :05:59. | :06:05. | |
Until very recently, the honourable gentleman for Hull West and hassle, | :06:06. | :06:12. | |
was trying to raise ?75,000 for the loons and badges. Now they are | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
getting ?1.7 million. It has been confirmed to me through more than | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
two independent sources that number ten instructed these concessions to | :06:22. | :06:27. | |
be made after the discussions with trade union representatives. This | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
being true would amend -- add to the sale of Government policy for cash | :06:34. | :06:36. | |
and political favours. Lest there be any doubt about the propriety -- the | :06:37. | :06:47. | |
impropriety of this deal, the leader of Her Majesty's opposition should | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
ask themselves this question -- what would they be saying if this | :06:53. | :06:55. | |
Government had altered the bill in order to give money to the | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
Conservative Party or to the Conservative Party's remain | :07:00. | :07:03. | |
campaign? My honourable friend should ask himself this question. | :07:04. | :07:05. | |
What would be the reaction if the Labour Government had changed a bill | :07:06. | :07:14. | |
to favour the Labour's ability to favour it self. This stinks as cash | :07:15. | :07:21. | |
for questions and shows this Government really is at the rotten | :07:22. | :07:24. | |
heart of the European Union. The seven principles of public life | :07:25. | :07:29. | |
requires public office holders, and I quote, to avoid placing themselves | :07:30. | :07:35. | |
under any obligation to people or organisations that might try | :07:36. | :07:38. | |
inappropriately to influence their work. The ministerial code states | :07:39. | :07:44. | |
that ministers must ensure that no conflict arises or appears to arise | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
between their public duties and their private interests. In this | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
matter, the Labour Party constitutes one of their private interests. Will | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
my right honourable friend the Prime Minister instructed friend on | :07:58. | :08:03. | |
parliamentary interest to launch this investigation. If my honourable | :08:04. | :08:07. | |
friend is right, he has nothing to fear from such an investigation. | :08:08. | :08:15. | |
Thank you, Mr Speaker. If I can start by saying I have the greatest | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
possible respect from the passion and commitment which has lasted not | :08:20. | :08:23. | |
just for years but for decades that my honourable friend has brought to | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
the cause which he is now advocating with such vigour that we should | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
leave the European Union. I have nothing but total respect for that | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
passion and commitment. So I just want to gently correct him on a view | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
points of fact, because he has been focusing so much on the very | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
important question that there are a number of things that he's adjusted | :08:46. | :08:48. | |
which are absolutely correct about the way that the current mechanism | :08:49. | :08:54. | |
for union members subscriptions to the political fund works. The first | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
point to make is to say that it is not the case that somebody who has | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
recently joined a trade union, to whom there for the new requirement | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
for an optimal not apply, is never asked whether they want to pay into | :09:09. | :09:12. | |
the political levy. Very far from it. There is a long-standing legal | :09:13. | :09:18. | |
requirement that they are offered an opt out of that political levy and | :09:19. | :09:23. | |
that that is something communicated very clearly to them and it is not | :09:24. | :09:28. | |
just a one-time thing. It is not something they are offered when they | :09:29. | :09:32. | |
join, it is something they can exercise at any time and need to be | :09:33. | :09:39. | |
reminded of on a regular basis. The other thing to say to my honourable | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
friend is that while estimates vary from different unions, the overall | :09:44. | :09:49. | |
estimate for trade union membership is that roughly 13 to 14% of all | :09:50. | :09:55. | |
members of a trade union joined in the last year. That means that over | :09:56. | :10:01. | |
the time of this Parliament, I'm not going to suggest that all members of | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
trade unions will have needed to opt into the political fund, but a very | :10:07. | :10:10. | |
substantial proportion will have. The argument that was made, and this | :10:11. | :10:15. | |
was not a point made... I'm afraid he is also not correct to say this | :10:16. | :10:22. | |
was an amendment made by Labour. It was made by the honourable member, | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
Lord Burns, someone that I know he has great respect of, who is | :10:27. | :10:32. | |
fiercely independent, and that flowed out of a committee in which | :10:33. | :10:35. | |
there was some this representation of all parties. The amendment was | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
very clearly inspired by Lord Burns when he said that it was not | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
reasonable to ask people who have signed up to an arrangement in good | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
faith to then have to you sign up again through a different process | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
simply because we have changed the law later. I did not agree with that | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
argument and nor did we in this House, but as is often the case, | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
when the House of Lords feels very, very strongly on an issue, there is | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
a very large majority against the Government's position. When an | :11:09. | :11:14. | |
independent member of the House of Lords has moved an amendment which | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
has secured support not just from the official opposition, not just | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
from the Liberal Democrats, but from a huge number of crossbenchers and | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
not just from crossbenchers, but from some very significant members | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
of our own party, and I would simply urge him to look at the people who | :11:32. | :11:34. | |
both spoke in the debate and voted or assertively chose not to vote in | :11:35. | :11:41. | |
support of the garment's position. They include not just the noble lord | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
Cormack and the noble lord boughs, they also include the noble Lord | :11:47. | :11:53. | |
Forsyth, who supports the same campaign in the European Union that | :11:54. | :11:56. | |
he supported and who both privately and publicly said that he thought it | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
was a profound error for us to pursue a compulsory opt in for all | :12:02. | :12:03. | |
existing members. Finally, Mr Speak, my honourable | :12:04. | :12:16. | |
friend suggested that it is inappropriate, of course, for | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
Government to do anything for private interests, in terms of | :12:21. | :12:26. | |
making changes to legislation, further private interests. Of | :12:27. | :12:29. | |
course, he is right. It is not right and not neven the passion of the | :12:30. | :12:35. | |
moment is it fair to categorise the Government's support, the official | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
policy of Her Majesty's Government. We support the proposition that the | :12:40. | :12:45. | |
United Kingdom should remain a member of the European Union. He | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
disagrees, but it is not a private interest, it is Government policy. | :12:50. | :12:53. | |
Thank you very much, Mr Speaker and it is very good to have this further | :12:54. | :13:02. | |
opportunity to reemphasise our implacable opposition to the trade | :13:03. | :13:05. | |
union bill it is entirely unnecessary. It is bad for workers | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
and it is also bad for businesses. And, as the minister said, the Lord | :13:11. | :13:17. | |
set up a cross-party committee, to look at the trade union and party | :13:18. | :13:21. | |
political funding and that committee came up with a series of Salisbury | :13:22. | :13:27. | |
convention compliance recommendations, which were voted | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
for by a majority of peers from parties. I wonder if the minister | :13:32. | :13:37. | |
can confirm he met with Lord Burns, who made clear the strength of | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
clearing on the other matter. Can he confirm that he has received | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
overwhelming reputations from all quarters, including the trade | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
unions, which by the way, is hardly surprising, give this is the trade | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
union bill that he should receive reputations from the unions. Is it | :13:56. | :13:59. | |
not the case that all these various reputations made clear that the | :14:00. | :14:04. | |
proposals on political funding were unworkable and breached the long | :14:05. | :14:08. | |
established convention that major changes to the funding a political | :14:09. | :14:11. | |
party should only happen by agreement. Now, it would appear, at | :14:12. | :14:17. | |
least partially, that the minister listened. Well done. But he should | :14:18. | :14:22. | |
have listened earlier and he #23450eds to keep listening, actual | :14:23. | :14:26. | |
limit can I ask him now to have a few more meetings with trade unions, | :14:27. | :14:31. | |
who have made entourly reasonable proposals on E balloting and | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
facility time which remain in the bill. There is still time for him to | :14:36. | :14:41. | |
think again. Mr Speaker, I can confirm what the | :14:42. | :14:44. | |
honourable gentleman has said, which is earlier this week that I did hold | :14:45. | :14:50. | |
a meeting, at my request, with the noble Lord Burn, in which I | :14:51. | :14:54. | |
discussed with him an amendment we put down and we were intending to | :14:55. | :15:00. | |
move to this bill. That amendment was one which would still have | :15:01. | :15:05. | |
aapplied the compulsory option to existing members of trade unions, | :15:06. | :15:09. | |
but would have built in a longer period of transition for trade | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
unions to implement this and would have changed the agraments for | :15:15. | :15:21. | |
renewal of their opt-in to align wit the political ballots that need to | :15:22. | :15:25. | |
take place every ten years. I hoped that was a compromise that the noble | :15:26. | :15:30. | |
Lord Burns would feel, if not enthusiastic about, at least able to | :15:31. | :15:34. | |
indicate that he would not actively oppose when the bill went back to | :15:35. | :15:40. | |
the Upper House in the next stage of ping-pong. And the nobble Lord | :15:41. | :15:50. | |
Burns, who is a man I have huge admiration and liking, was very, | :15:51. | :15:54. | |
very clear to me that he felt that was not an exception able | :15:55. | :15:59. | |
compromise, that not just would he not support it, he would actively | :16:00. | :16:05. | |
the reinstatement of his amendment. He made clear his judgment was not | :16:06. | :16:09. | |
so much a political one or, and certainly not inspired by questions | :16:10. | :16:13. | |
around the balance of party funding, it was simply based on his | :16:14. | :16:16. | |
experience in the financial services industry, which is where he said | :16:17. | :16:20. | |
that it is very, very unfair to ask people to sign up to new things when | :16:21. | :16:26. | |
they have already expressed an opinion on that very same question | :16:27. | :16:29. | |
by a means which was previously legal. He said that applied in this | :16:30. | :16:33. | |
case and he thought that it was wrong and that he could not support | :16:34. | :16:38. | |
it. We then reflected on Lord Burns' | :16:39. | :16:43. | |
position and moved the amendments that we passed last night. As for | :16:44. | :16:48. | |
the honourable member's comments about the rest of the bill, I just | :16:49. | :16:54. | |
have to be very, very clear with him and with honourable members on his | :16:55. | :17:00. | |
side, this bill is going to dramatically improve the state of | :17:01. | :17:05. | |
employment relations and the state of industrial action. At the moment | :17:06. | :17:12. | |
a trade union, like various education trade unions, can hold a | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
strike three years after a ballot has been passed with the turnout of | :17:17. | :17:23. | |
less than 20% of their members and still close over 1,000 colleges. | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
That is currently legal. When the bill, that with the support of my | :17:28. | :17:33. | |
honourable friend, we are passing in this House, and I anticipate the | :17:34. | :17:39. | |
nobble Lords will pass next week, when that achieves royal consent it | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
will not be possible to inflict on hard-working parents the closure of | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
a school in the middle of a week on the basis of a tiny turnout that | :17:48. | :17:51. | |
would secure -- that was secured several years ago. That is why I am | :17:52. | :17:55. | |
proud of this bill. That is why I think my honourable friend can be | :17:56. | :18:00. | |
proud of this bill. We have secured our manifesto commitments for all | :18:01. | :18:03. | |
working people. The THE SPEAKER: The minister has been | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
diverted from the path of procedure vert cho as a result of the cheeky | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
enquiries of the opposition front bench. We cannot now have a third | :18:14. | :18:19. | |
reading on the trade union bill and must focus narrowly instead upon the | :18:20. | :18:22. | |
matter of the urgent question, which I know will be done faithfully by | :18:23. | :18:29. | |
Lord Liam Fox. Thank you, Mr Speaker. In making this change in | :18:30. | :18:34. | |
the trade union bill and following on from our abavendment of our | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
manifesto commitments on immigration by not rethe goshiating freedom of | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
movement, can he tell us of the commitments he referred, which must | :18:44. | :18:48. | |
not be abandoned in terms of trying to seek a vote. Mr Speaker, your | :18:49. | :18:54. | |
cautionary tone is ringing in my ears. So, I will answer my Right | :18:55. | :19:00. | |
Honourable friend's question by narrowly focussing on the measures | :19:01. | :19:04. | |
in this bill, which demonstrate, I believe, as I said at the start of | :19:05. | :19:09. | |
my statement, that we had genuinely secured everything that was in our | :19:10. | :19:13. | |
manifesto. It is a point that came up in my discussion with Lord Burns | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
who knows a thing or two about legislative drafting. He said he was | :19:19. | :19:23. | |
confident having read and re-read the resis words in our manifesto | :19:24. | :19:30. | |
about the transparent opt-in for the political fund. He was very, very | :19:31. | :19:35. | |
clear that the amendment that he moved and it was passed in the upper | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
place fulfilled that manifesto commitment in full. Not only that, | :19:41. | :19:47. | |
that the further introduction of opt-in to apply to existing members | :19:48. | :19:54. | |
was not given cover by the Salisbury convention and he would made it | :19:55. | :19:58. | |
plain in the Upper House if we were to try and restore that position. I | :19:59. | :20:02. | |
mean no commitment of those who wrote our manifesto because it is a | :20:03. | :20:06. | |
wonderful document which will live through the ages. Their wording was | :20:07. | :20:13. | |
not so precisely established as to ekoo our that additional application | :20:14. | :20:17. | |
of the opt-in to existing members of trade unions. Thank you, Mr Speaker | :20:18. | :20:24. | |
and we want to reiterate on these benches our complete opposition to | :20:25. | :20:28. | |
the trade union bill. Can the minister confirm that it would be | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
strange for a piece of legislation that affects six million workers for | :20:34. | :20:37. | |
a Government not to consult with bodies that represent those six | :20:38. | :20:41. | |
million workers? Can he also confirm that the Government were considering | :20:42. | :20:47. | |
concessions as far as as the 26th January, when a memorandum in his | :20:48. | :20:52. | |
name was leaked to many media outlets? What onof going discussions | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
is he having with devolved institutions who have a major | :20:58. | :21:02. | |
problem with this bill and the time and further issues? Thank you, Mr | :21:03. | :21:08. | |
Speaker. The honourable gentleman made a valuable contribution to our | :21:09. | :21:12. | |
deliberations at all stages, perhaps especially in committee. He was | :21:13. | :21:18. | |
vocal and incisive in his commitment of almost every measure in the bill. | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
Of course he is right. We don't just hold discussions with institutions | :21:24. | :21:26. | |
in society about whom we are legislating. I think it would be a | :21:27. | :21:32. | |
little unfair if we didn't. We invited them to give evidence to the | :21:33. | :21:36. | |
committee. We had one of the most terrifying sightsvy seen in long | :21:37. | :21:40. | |
time, which is the General Secretary of Unite, the General of GMB and of | :21:41. | :21:46. | |
the TUC, all sitting in a row, giving evidence to that committee. | :21:47. | :21:49. | |
So, of course it was right to do that. He's also right that we | :21:50. | :21:54. | |
consulted with a devolved administration. I have had a number | :21:55. | :22:00. | |
of conversations on phone and in person with ministers in the | :22:01. | :22:03. | |
devolved Governments who have expressed concern about whether all | :22:04. | :22:07. | |
the provisions in the bill should properly apply to them, although we | :22:08. | :22:09. | |
are confident that all the provisions in the bill relate to | :22:10. | :22:14. | |
observed matters and therefore apply to everyone and every trade union in | :22:15. | :22:19. | |
the United Kingdom. I chaired the trade union bill and committee. If I | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
am not going to comment on the trade union bill, was I can made a | :22:24. | :22:27. | |
constitutional point? There would be concern if, as part of the ping-pong | :22:28. | :22:33. | |
process, any Government, at any time made concessions on a bill, as a | :22:34. | :22:36. | |
result of something which had nothing to do with that bill. | :22:37. | :22:40. | |
My honourable friend is an honourable man and I am sure he can | :22:41. | :22:45. | |
confirm that no Government of which he was a part would ever do that. | :22:46. | :22:52. | |
Mr Speaker, I think I have expressed -- explained clearly what the | :22:53. | :22:57. | |
process was. I speak for myself in simply saying when I met the | :22:58. | :23:03. | |
immovable force of the Lord Burns, I decided that maybe discretion was | :23:04. | :23:06. | |
the better part of valour. That's not to say that Government ministers | :23:07. | :23:10. | |
don't have discussions on all sorts of issues with all sorts of people | :23:11. | :23:14. | |
in society. And it is the Government's policy to | :23:15. | :23:23. | |
support the Remain Remain campaign. The General Secretary of TUC is a | :23:24. | :23:27. | |
member and has been for months and the trade unionsvy have listed have | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
made their positions clear, long before this bill came back to this | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
House or was considered in connection with the opt-in the Upper | :23:37. | :23:41. | |
House. So, I just gently say to my honourable and Right Honourable | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
friends that not every compromise is a conspiracy. | :23:47. | :23:55. | |
THE SPEAKER: Mr Denis Skipper. -- Ski in, ner. | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
Now that the Government are calling to this barmy idea which has been | :24:01. | :24:04. | |
propagated this morning from the right-wing of the Tory Party, now | :24:05. | :24:09. | |
that the Government has seemingly prepared to give way on different | :24:10. | :24:15. | |
subjects, can I ask him, what is the price for dropping this lousy, | :24:16. | :24:22. | |
rotten trade union bill at? -- all together? | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
Mr Speaker, it is the goal of my life to give pleasure to the | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
honourable gentleman. I have to, I am afraid, I have to | :24:32. | :24:38. | |
tell him that there is no price, because we believe in this bill, we | :24:39. | :24:42. | |
believe in our manifesto. And we are well on the way to delivering it. | :24:43. | :24:51. | |
I hope the minister will understand that when we read from a senior | :24:52. | :24:56. | |
political journalist in the Telegraph the following words, "Last | :24:57. | :25:00. | |
night a union source said bosses had always been clear it would be | :25:01. | :25:03. | |
difficult to spend significant amounts on the campaign to keep | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
Britain in the Union, whilst fighting against the trade union | :25:08. | :25:11. | |
bill, but they revealed that unions will now step up their campaigning | :25:12. | :25:16. | |
and funding efforts in light of the concessions." He can well understand | :25:17. | :25:20. | |
why people are asking these questions. Can he confirm right now | :25:21. | :25:25. | |
that this journalist is absolutely wrong? Her sources are incorrect and | :25:26. | :25:29. | |
no such trade took place? Mr Speaker, I am afraid I am going | :25:30. | :25:34. | |
to have to repeat what I have already said, which is there is a | :25:35. | :25:38. | |
natural process towards the end oh of a parliamentary session, where | :25:39. | :25:42. | |
concessions are made on bills in order to secure their timely | :25:43. | :25:48. | |
passage. What trade unions decide to do about their long-standing | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
commitment to back the remain campaign is entirely a matter for | :25:53. | :26:02. | |
them. I think this is a very rare occurrence for the Government to | :26:03. | :26:06. | |
actually listen to the Members of Parliament, both in the Upper House | :26:07. | :26:10. | |
and here. And I welcome that. That is the right thing to do. And it is | :26:11. | :26:14. | |
right that they should meet with trade unions. Of course they should. | :26:15. | :26:20. | |
This legislation is an attack on trade unions and does nothing for | :26:21. | :26:27. | |
employer relations whatsoever. It is a wrecking piece of legislation and | :26:28. | :26:31. | |
any concessions, at all, can only improve this bill and I hope we | :26:32. | :26:35. | |
could see more in the short time left to it. | :26:36. | :26:41. | |
Mr Speaker, the honourable lady is far too kind to me. I didn't want to | :26:42. | :26:48. | |
listen at all. I simply acknowledged that when you have a -- an array of | :26:49. | :26:54. | |
forces which includes most of the crossbench, all of the Liberal | :26:55. | :26:58. | |
Democrat party, all of the Labour Party and some very influential | :26:59. | :27:05. | |
Conservative peers, when you have that, neophytes like me in this game | :27:06. | :27:15. | |
perhaps need to admit defeat. It is true that the noble lord, Lord | :27:16. | :27:18. | |
Cormack, is a very special parliamentarian. As the grandson of | :27:19. | :27:28. | |
a trade union shop steward who went on to become a Conservative trade | :27:29. | :27:39. | |
unionist, I can say that has been opposition on this side of the House | :27:40. | :27:43. | |
and can I thank him for listening to that. The debate can family | :27:44. | :27:52. | |
Conservative manifesto piece to improve situations. I thank my | :27:53. | :27:58. | |
honourable friend and his father, who did not just make it to the | :27:59. | :28:02. | |
Other Place but made it into the Cabinet and was a very significant | :28:03. | :28:07. | |
performer in the area of employment law and industrial relations, so we | :28:08. | :28:12. | |
have much to learn from his work, and he is right about that. I hope | :28:13. | :28:17. | |
it is not breaking a confidence to say that there are other members of | :28:18. | :28:23. | |
this House with whom I've had conversations about the specific | :28:24. | :28:26. | |
provision who were deeply concerned about them and they do include among | :28:27. | :28:33. | |
them, I don't think I should mention their names, they include among them | :28:34. | :28:38. | |
leading supporters of those in the campaign to leave the European | :28:39. | :28:45. | |
Union. Can there be any psychological explanation why so | :28:46. | :28:49. | |
many Tory MPs have such a loathing of trade unions? I do not recognise | :28:50. | :28:55. | |
that loathing and I certainly don't feel it myself. Can I join with my | :28:56. | :29:04. | |
honourable friend from Worcester to say firstly congratulations to the | :29:05. | :29:10. | |
minister in the way that he has handled this bill but also to ask | :29:11. | :29:15. | |
him, again, if it is not the case that he has had conversations with | :29:16. | :29:19. | |
many people on all sides of the House, including this side of the | :29:20. | :29:23. | |
House, both here and in the Other Place about their concerns and that | :29:24. | :29:26. | |
many of those concerns have been addressed without any contributions | :29:27. | :29:30. | |
being made at all to us? I can confirm that and none more important | :29:31. | :29:37. | |
than my honourable friend who had some very serious concerns which he | :29:38. | :29:40. | |
did exactly the right thing, you came to see me privately about them | :29:41. | :29:44. | |
as we were deliberating in this House, he laid an amendment at | :29:45. | :29:47. | |
reports state which he then did not move because I gave him reassurance | :29:48. | :29:51. | |
we would look closely at it as the Bill progressed and while he was not | :29:52. | :29:57. | |
here, I mentioned specifically yesterday that he had been hugely | :29:58. | :30:00. | |
influential in our decision ultimately not to press ahead with | :30:01. | :30:08. | |
the decision to remove the check arrangement from trade unions the | :30:09. | :30:13. | |
public sector. Can I declare an interest as someone who has been in | :30:14. | :30:19. | |
the following level -- for an levy since 1969, and the former head of | :30:20. | :30:26. | |
the trade union. The trade unions are clear. They do not want this | :30:27. | :30:31. | |
bill at all. Even Winston Churchill spoke against what they are trying | :30:32. | :30:37. | |
to do and what ever gossip people are hearing, there is no doubt that | :30:38. | :30:43. | |
the trade unions vote would be Labour Party's remain campaign | :30:44. | :30:49. | |
because they realise that the right-wing reactionaries who would | :30:50. | :30:54. | |
deregulate this nation would be bad for employers -- employees. I think | :30:55. | :31:04. | |
the honourable gentleman's words speak for themselves and they are | :31:05. | :31:10. | |
very helpful. It is a shabby political episode when the | :31:11. | :31:13. | |
Government has been caught violating trade union legislation to sit | :31:14. | :31:19. | |
persuade the trade unions to come on board with a campaign to stay in the | :31:20. | :31:24. | |
European Union. Isn't it now clear that the Government, big business, | :31:25. | :31:28. | |
the BBC and now the trade unions are all hanging up on British people to | :31:29. | :31:32. | |
try to persuade them to stay in the European Union? Mr Speaker, nothing | :31:33. | :31:40. | |
pains me more than to have clearly angered my own furry friend -- by | :31:41. | :31:47. | |
honorary friend because I have extreme liking for him. I always | :31:48. | :31:50. | |
dropped everything to go to his constituency because he is a great | :31:51. | :31:54. | |
man but I do reject what he has said. I think perhaps in this case | :31:55. | :32:00. | |
he is able the bit blinded by his passion for the issue and I would | :32:01. | :32:04. | |
simply point to him that all he needs to do is to look at the front | :32:05. | :32:08. | |
pages and the editorial pages of every single newspaper that is | :32:09. | :32:12. | |
traditionally seen as a Conservative supporting newspaper to see that | :32:13. | :32:16. | |
there is a balance of opinion in this debate. His arguments are being | :32:17. | :32:23. | |
well represented. Given the impact this bill will have on workers | :32:24. | :32:27. | |
rights across the whole of the United Kingdom, can I ask the | :32:28. | :32:31. | |
minister what discussions he had with the devolved administrations | :32:32. | :32:36. | |
since the Lords amendments? I haven't yet had that pleasure but I | :32:37. | :32:42. | |
anticipate it. Thank you Mr Speaker. This is a very simple issue which | :32:43. | :32:46. | |
the Minister could give a straightforward answer to. The | :32:47. | :32:51. | |
allegation is that the trade union bill was watered down for the | :32:52. | :32:55. | |
benefit of the trade unions on the understanding that they would then | :32:56. | :32:59. | |
make a considerable donation to the campaign to stay in the European | :33:00. | :33:03. | |
Union. Can the Minister give us, with the authority of the dispatch | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
box, a clear denial that any such discussion took place and that in no | :33:09. | :33:14. | |
way whatsoever, no discussions with ministers or officials, in no way | :33:15. | :33:18. | |
what any of the watering down of the trade union Bill done with any | :33:19. | :33:22. | |
mention of any funding for the U remain campaign for the trade | :33:23. | :33:26. | |
unions? It is very simple to deny it if it is not true. Mr Speaker, I | :33:27. | :33:33. | |
aspire to be as straightforward as my honourable friend. I have been | :33:34. | :33:37. | |
very clear. We went through a process of negotiation, not just | :33:38. | :33:39. | |
with Shadow ministers but with members of other parties and in the | :33:40. | :33:45. | |
Other House and we have secured a package, which I have to say I do | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
not believe any honourable member on my side of the House would have | :33:50. | :33:52. | |
predicted when we introduced this bill that we would have secured as | :33:53. | :33:57. | |
much of it as swiftly and as easily as we have, because it was probably | :33:58. | :34:00. | |
the most politically controversial bill in our original Queen 's | :34:01. | :34:08. | |
speech. As for decisions by the trade unions to back the campaign | :34:09. | :34:10. | |
for which they have already declared, long before's -- long | :34:11. | :34:15. | |
before yesterday's considerations of the Bill, I think the honourable | :34:16. | :34:19. | |
gentleman spoke very clearly when he said they would support this | :34:20. | :34:23. | |
campaign full heartedly and full throated Lee because they believe it | :34:24. | :34:27. | |
is in the interests of their members to do so. I do not think there is | :34:28. | :34:33. | |
anything so grubby as a deal but if an agreement was reached can I | :34:34. | :34:37. | |
congratulate the opposition Chief Whip on showing how this can be | :34:38. | :34:45. | |
done? Can I ask him to follow the leadership of the trade unions and | :34:46. | :34:49. | |
contact their members to make the case for year up and the terrible | :34:50. | :34:55. | |
threats for growth if we leave a single market of 500 million | :34:56. | :35:00. | |
consumers? Mr Speaker, I'm not sure if you will that I'm likely answer | :35:01. | :35:08. | |
to that question as directly relevant to the question but I will | :35:09. | :35:11. | |
venture until you stop me. I will venture that small companies have | :35:12. | :35:19. | |
beefs about the European Union, so do I, but ultimately they feel it is | :35:20. | :35:24. | |
in our interest to stay will stop I feel all of us should be doing what | :35:25. | :35:28. | |
we can do to encourage people that we represent to see that their | :35:29. | :35:32. | |
interests are best protected by staying in. The person who asked | :35:33. | :35:40. | |
this question speaks passionately on behalf of of his own union which is | :35:41. | :35:47. | |
the general and municipal union of a Brexit bigots. It is extraordinary | :35:48. | :35:53. | |
that he asks for the advisor on ministerial interest to be woken up | :35:54. | :35:58. | |
from his slumber. He has been virtually unemployed since he was | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
appointed when the previous holder of that office resigned, believing | :36:03. | :36:08. | |
that he should have been called in to investigate the conduct of the | :36:09. | :36:13. | |
Member for North Somerset who -- North Somerset who gained absolution | :36:14. | :36:21. | |
by resignation. As the person asking this question, why isn't he asking | :36:22. | :36:25. | |
for an enquiry into the two ministers who gave ?3 million to | :36:26. | :36:29. | |
Kids Company in the face of advice from their civil servants three days | :36:30. | :36:34. | |
before it collapsed? It is because the office of the advisor had been | :36:35. | :36:40. | |
degraded and politicised. Calm down. Calm. For the benefit of yoga -- the | :36:41. | :36:50. | |
benefit of yoga, even for ministers, should not be underestimated. I want | :36:51. | :37:03. | |
to talk about a pause for order. The reason I didn't intervene when a | :37:04. | :37:06. | |
word was used is because I believe it to be a matter of taste. There | :37:07. | :37:12. | |
was no imputation of dishonour. I mean this in no unkind spirit but | :37:13. | :37:17. | |
the honourable member for Harwich and North Essex and other | :37:18. | :37:26. | |
like-minded souls are perfectly capable of looking after themselves | :37:27. | :37:29. | |
and their honour has not been impugned in any way. That is why the | :37:30. | :37:32. | |
remark stands. The Minister must of course reply. Mr Speaker, there are | :37:33. | :37:39. | |
no bigots on this side of the House, least of all my honourable | :37:40. | :37:43. | |
disavowing to disagree with me on this subject. The honourable | :37:44. | :37:49. | |
gentleman does himself absolutely no credit by hurling that kind of | :37:50. | :37:54. | |
Playschool abuse across this chamber. He is a disgrace, the | :37:55. | :37:58. | |
comment was a disgrace and he should withdraw it. The Minister is | :37:59. | :38:05. | |
entitled to his view and I hope the House won't take offence if I say I | :38:06. | :38:14. | |
will judge if a comment should be withdrawn. I think we should leave | :38:15. | :38:24. | |
it there. If I were to intervene on grounds of order every time a | :38:25. | :38:28. | |
question were not answered nothing else would ever happen in the | :38:29. | :38:35. | |
chamber. I must confess, Mr Speaker, I must find myself amused by this | :38:36. | :38:49. | |
question of urgency. I am restating yet again my absolute opposition to | :38:50. | :38:53. | |
this bill. Can the Minister confirm that trade unions remain a part of | :38:54. | :38:57. | |
civil society and they have an absolute right to make | :38:58. | :38:59. | |
representations on the half of them and the two Government irrespective | :39:00. | :39:03. | |
of what right-wing members of his own backbenchers might wish? Of | :39:04. | :39:08. | |
course I can confirm that but I have to say to the honourable gentleman | :39:09. | :39:11. | |
that frankly the position governing strike action the position governing | :39:12. | :39:16. | |
the proper regulation of trade union activities with regards to finances | :39:17. | :39:20. | |
and membership, the position regarding picketing and intimidation | :39:21. | :39:24. | |
of non-striking workers, all of those were frankly not acceptable | :39:25. | :39:29. | |
until this bill was introduced to this House and remain not acceptable | :39:30. | :39:35. | |
until this bill has secured Royal assent. Of course I accept that | :39:36. | :39:39. | |
trade unions have an important role in society but they needed this | :39:40. | :39:43. | |
reform, they will benefit from this reform and I want to put on my | :39:44. | :39:47. | |
record -- on record my gratitude to all members on my side, not least | :39:48. | :39:51. | |
the honourable member who has made comments on this bill, their support | :39:52. | :39:57. | |
of this bill. As today is International Workers Memorial Day, | :39:58. | :40:00. | |
I think it says that they poignant reminder as to why we need good and | :40:01. | :40:06. | |
strong trade unions in our society. I think it's also right that we have | :40:07. | :40:12. | |
the trade union movement opposed to many of the measures contained | :40:13. | :40:14. | |
within this bill which is an attack on how they operate on behalf of | :40:15. | :40:20. | |
their members. In terms of the substantive point of the urgent | :40:21. | :40:26. | |
question today, of course the trade union Bill is not yet legislation. | :40:27. | :40:31. | |
It hasn't been connected, so surely -- it hasn't been an active, so | :40:32. | :40:34. | |
surely the fact that the Labour affiliated trade union has decided | :40:35. | :40:42. | |
to donate some of its money, it's Labour affiliated political fund, to | :40:43. | :40:46. | |
a Labour supported campaign is perfectly within the law? Mr | :40:47. | :40:55. | |
Speaker, he is correct. I am extremely grateful to the Minister | :40:56. | :40:58. | |
and all colleagues. We come now to the business question. | :40:59. | :41:03. | |
Points of order have really come after statements, I would prefer... | :41:04. | :41:12. | |
The honourable gentleman has had a good run. He should be patient. Aam | :41:13. | :41:18. | |
sure his point of -- I am sure his point of order can be heard later. | :41:19. | :41:23. | |
Mr Speaker, will the lead ore of the House give us the forthcoming | :41:24. | :41:27. | |
business? So, Mr Speaker, on Monday 2nd May | :41:28. | :41:36. | |
the House is not sitting. It is the Mayday bank hole dasmt Tuesday 3rd | :41:37. | :41:42. | |
we will sit Monday hours, not Tuesday hours, when we will debate a | :41:43. | :41:48. | |
motion to approve a ways and means resolution to the Housing Bill, | :41:49. | :41:52. | |
followed by considerations and amendments of the planning bill. On | :41:53. | :41:58. | |
the 4th May, an Opposition Day Debate. That will be followed by a | :41:59. | :42:03. | |
motion relating to education funding in London. A subject determined by | :42:04. | :42:08. | |
the backbench committee. Thursday 5th, there'll be a debate on | :42:09. | :42:16. | |
contributions of faith sector to local communities. Friday 6th May, | :42:17. | :42:20. | |
the House is not sitting. The provisional business for the | :42:21. | :42:23. | |
following week, commencing Monday 9th May, will include on the Monday | :42:24. | :42:27. | |
a debate on the motion of Government departments outside London and the | :42:28. | :42:31. | |
subject of this debate determined by the Backbench Business Committee, | :42:32. | :42:34. | |
followed by consideration of Lords' amendments. I should like to inform | :42:35. | :42:40. | |
the House that the business in Westminster Hall will be a debate on | :42:41. | :42:46. | |
an e-petition relating to the Government's referendum leaflet. Mr | :42:47. | :42:53. | |
Speaker, Ed Balls, do we actually, Mr Speaker, have a Government at | :42:54. | :42:57. | |
all? They are all over the place. We all thought the referendum was a | :42:58. | :43:01. | |
simple question of EU in or out? This week it got much more | :43:02. | :43:06. | |
complicated as we learnt it is all about the ECHR in or out as well. So | :43:07. | :43:11. | |
the Home Secretary is an in-out, but the hostage-taker is an out-in and | :43:12. | :43:16. | |
the Chancellor is an in-in, along with the Attorney General and the | :43:17. | :43:20. | |
Solicitor-General, but the lead ore the House is an out-out. As for me, | :43:21. | :43:32. | |
I am out for in. Mr Speaker, the Health Secretary tells us he's in | :43:33. | :43:41. | |
his last big job in politics. I hear with an impending reshuffle several | :43:42. | :43:45. | |
ministers have been scouring the job market. I heard rumours of | :43:46. | :43:49. | |
Government postings to overseas territories being planned. | :43:50. | :43:56. | |
Boris is off to cultivate his that polyian complex and for the Health | :43:57. | :44:03. | |
Secretary there is the island known as "inaccessible island" which is | :44:04. | :44:07. | |
probably where the junior doctors want to send him anyway. 33-1 to be | :44:08. | :44:19. | |
the next chancellor of the Exchequer. On this day in 1789 | :44:20. | :44:28. | |
Fletcher Citian mutinied on the bounty. He ended up on an island | :44:29. | :44:34. | |
9,000 miles away from here. I can imagine the leader of the House as | :44:35. | :44:41. | |
the governor of Pitcane, dressed in his white socks and sandals, Lording | :44:42. | :44:45. | |
it over the inhabitants, all 56 of them. If he wants I can put in a | :44:46. | :44:49. | |
word with the Prime Minister for him because the Prime Minister is trying | :44:50. | :44:54. | |
to advance my career, I see. Can we, Mr Speaker, have a debate on | :44:55. | :44:58. | |
irresponsible politics? I suspect the leader may never have heard of | :44:59. | :45:04. | |
Avon Jones, but he tweeted, I think we should have a protest where | :45:05. | :45:13. | |
thousands of us have send e-mails with the words bomb, Iran... He may | :45:14. | :45:21. | |
be a crank but he's the Plaid Cymru condedate for Police and Crime | :45:22. | :45:25. | |
Commissioner in North Wales. Can we have a statement from the Home | :45:26. | :45:29. | |
Secretary on the worrying break down of the E border systems on 13th and | :45:30. | :45:34. | |
14th June last year? We need to know, have there been other break | :45:35. | :45:40. | |
downs? Were full index warnings checked? Why did the Home Secretary | :45:41. | :45:44. | |
cover this up for so long? The leader of the House says we should | :45:45. | :45:47. | |
leave the EU so we can control our borders. Surely the lesson is the | :45:48. | :45:53. | |
greatest threat to our border is frankly Tory income I pi tense. The | :45:54. | :45:59. | |
leader said we should -- incompetence. As I walked into | :46:00. | :46:03. | |
Parliament this morning the police were moving two homeless people on | :46:04. | :46:07. | |
who had been sleeping on the doorstep of this parliamentary | :46:08. | :46:11. | |
palace for the last week. Under the Tories, rough sleeping has doubled | :46:12. | :46:15. | |
and funding for those who are sleeping rough has halved. Now, we | :46:16. | :46:19. | |
believe this bill will make the housing crisis in London even worse. | :46:20. | :46:25. | |
Will this Government, at least ensure for heavens sake that for | :46:26. | :46:30. | |
every single social housing unit sold off another is built in its | :46:31. | :46:36. | |
place? Mr Speaker, on 29th November, 2012, the Prime Minister said of the | :46:37. | :46:42. | |
Leveson Inquiry there would be a second part to investigate | :46:43. | :46:44. | |
wrongdoing in the press and the police. I listened to the Home | :46:45. | :46:48. | |
Secretary very carefully yesterday. She made an excellent statement. She | :46:49. | :46:52. | |
said we have always said a decision on lef son will be made when all the | :46:53. | :46:57. | |
investigations have been completed. That is not right, Mr Speaker. Up | :46:58. | :47:01. | |
until now the Government position, the Prime Minister's position has | :47:02. | :47:08. | |
always been that Leveson will start, but should start as soon as the | :47:09. | :47:12. | |
police and prosecuting authorities have finished their work. Surely one | :47:13. | :47:17. | |
of the many lessons we must learn from Hillsborough is when the | :47:18. | :47:20. | |
relationship between the police and the press gets too close it corrupts | :47:21. | :47:24. | |
them both. After all, some have argued that the law of liable means | :47:25. | :47:31. | |
there's no need nor a strong press regulator, but the 96 whose | :47:32. | :47:34. | |
reputation was dragged through the mud by the police, by the Sun and | :47:35. | :47:43. | |
the Spectator, couldn't sue for libel, could they? As passover ends | :47:44. | :47:50. | |
on Saturday, let me say again, as clearly as I can, anti-Semitism is | :47:51. | :47:56. | |
wrong, full stop, end of story. I am sick and tired of people trying to | :47:57. | :48:01. | |
explain it away and yes, I talking to you Ken Livingstone. Of course | :48:02. | :48:05. | |
the illegal settlements are wrong and the Palestinians deserve a | :48:06. | :48:10. | |
better deal. Rocket attacks are wrong and Hamas and Hezbollah must | :48:11. | :48:14. | |
acknowledge the right of Is hail to exist. I was taught -- of Israel to | :48:15. | :48:20. | |
exist. I was taught not to judge people by the colour of their skin, | :48:21. | :48:26. | |
their gender but their character. I also say it is no better when a | :48:27. | :48:31. | |
senior politician looks at the President of the United States and | :48:32. | :48:38. | |
only sees the colour of his skin and his part Kenyan ancestry, or when | :48:39. | :48:43. | |
the Tory candidate for Mayor of London runs a racially-charged | :48:44. | :48:46. | |
campaign against his Labour opponent. It is irresponsible. I off | :48:47. | :48:53. | |
fendss the decency -- it off fends the decency of the British people. I | :48:54. | :49:01. | |
say racism and racial peg disare not welcome in our political parties. | :49:02. | :49:08. | |
I will come back and I share most of the sentiments just raised let me | :49:09. | :49:20. | |
start by wishing you and the Shadow Minister a happyEd Balls day. I | :49:21. | :49:26. | |
never thought they would miss him as much as they would. He didn't talk | :49:27. | :49:30. | |
about all over the place policies. That is what the Labour Party's | :49:31. | :49:33. | |
position is on this. They don't want prisoners to have the vote. They | :49:34. | :49:37. | |
don't want to change our human rights laws. They ought to be smrt | :49:38. | :49:41. | |
enough to know those two position -- smart enough to know those two | :49:42. | :49:48. | |
positions are income pat tibl. He raised the subject of big jobs in | :49:49. | :49:54. | |
Government. We will remind the gentleman opposite, he does not see | :49:55. | :49:58. | |
his job as the last in Government, as the Prime Minister reminded him | :49:59. | :50:02. | |
yesterday. He talked about jobs for the future. I suspect the odds on | :50:03. | :50:07. | |
him becoming the speaker of this House are longer than the odds of me | :50:08. | :50:13. | |
becoming the manager of Liverpool Football Club. On that subject, can | :50:14. | :50:18. | |
I say a couple of things? I served when we were in opposition as shadow | :50:19. | :50:23. | |
member for Liverpool. I have enormous regard for that city, its | :50:24. | :50:28. | |
people and resilience. I would pay a tribute to all of the Hillsborough | :50:29. | :50:32. | |
families and all the people in Liverpool who supported them through | :50:33. | :50:36. | |
their long years of struggle. They, this week, achieved justice. I would | :50:37. | :50:41. | |
like to pay a trib boo to the member for Lee, who I thought was -- a trib | :50:42. | :50:48. | |
boo to the member for Lee, he deserves credit for what he's done. | :50:49. | :50:54. | |
The honourable gentleman talked about LevesonII. We will not move | :50:55. | :50:58. | |
forward until the cases are complete. That is the right thing to | :50:59. | :51:01. | |
do. We will continue to stick to that position. | :51:02. | :51:06. | |
He made the point about Mr Jones - yes I know who he is. The views he | :51:07. | :51:11. | |
expressed are objectionable. It is my hope in that part of North Wales | :51:12. | :51:16. | |
he is not elected as police and crimes commissioner. On the borders | :51:17. | :51:22. | |
issue I would remind him when Labour were in power the e-Borders | :51:23. | :51:26. | |
programme was supported to arrive and be put into effect. It didn't | :51:27. | :51:29. | |
happen because they failed to deliver the programme. When they | :51:30. | :51:33. | |
talk to us about what we have done in Government, they were in power | :51:34. | :51:38. | |
for 13 years. They started by dismantling our exit check borders | :51:39. | :51:42. | |
and they failed to put in place an alternative. Mr Speaker, he talked | :51:43. | :51:51. | |
about homelessness. Let me remind him of his party's record. They | :51:52. | :51:56. | |
built fewer council Houses than we did in office. Let me talk about | :51:57. | :52:03. | |
anti-Semitism. He has been a voice of reason and common sense. He | :52:04. | :52:07. | |
deserves credit for that. I wish all his colleagues saw things the same | :52:08. | :52:14. | |
way. He is right to talk about Ken Livingstone. His matters suggest | :52:15. | :52:20. | |
they were not anti-accept mettic, they were disgraceful. I do not | :52:21. | :52:24. | |
understand as many Labour MPs do not understand how Ken Livingstone is | :52:25. | :52:26. | |
still today a member of the Labour Party. He should be suspended from | :52:27. | :52:29. | |
the Labour Party for the things that he said. | :52:30. | :52:35. | |
But I also think there's some any evety on those benches, a member | :52:36. | :52:41. | |
said on the Today Programme she regarded the events as trial via | :52:42. | :52:46. | |
Twitter. She clearly does not fully | :52:47. | :52:49. | |
understand the gravity of the situation. Mr Speaker, despite the | :52:50. | :52:54. | |
wise words of the shadow leader, and I disagree what he said about my | :52:55. | :53:00. | |
honourable friend for Uxbridge, he nonetheless makes a powerful point. | :53:01. | :53:04. | |
He is a beacon of sense in this party. Where is the sense on the | :53:05. | :53:09. | |
rest of his benches of what is a deeply, deeply serious matter? | :53:10. | :53:15. | |
A number of my constituents have been the victims of who appears to | :53:16. | :53:22. | |
be a financial scam. The police have referred them to action fraud. The | :53:23. | :53:26. | |
contact they have had with Action Fraud is minimal. And they are very | :53:27. | :53:30. | |
dissatisfied. Could the leader arrange for a debate on the work of | :53:31. | :53:35. | |
Action Fraud? Well, Mr Speaker, my honourable | :53:36. | :53:39. | |
friend makes an important point. We are aware across our society of a | :53:40. | :53:43. | |
range of different scams. Often it is vulnerable people in our society | :53:44. | :53:47. | |
who are the victims. I pay tribute to him for raiding this issue. I | :53:48. | :53:51. | |
would say the Secretary of State and the business department will be here | :53:52. | :53:54. | |
next week. I hope he will take advantage to make sure it is on his | :53:55. | :53:58. | |
radar as well. Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. Can | :53:59. | :54:02. | |
I thank you for the business for next week. Forget aboutEd Balls -- | :54:03. | :54:09. | |
about Ed Balls, but we remember all those killed in the workplace. | :54:10. | :54:13. | |
Remember the dead and fight for the living has been considered. The | :54:14. | :54:17. | |
trade union bill, that is very apt words for the business we are | :54:18. | :54:21. | |
considering. Will the Government just now not do it? Will it now do | :54:22. | :54:27. | |
the right thing when it comes to accepting uncompanied child refugees | :54:28. | :54:37. | |
in number of camps. Even the Daily Mail are calling for the Government | :54:38. | :54:40. | |
to accept these children. For the Daily Mail to say this, surely the | :54:41. | :54:45. | |
time has come for this, even this, the most callous of Governments to | :54:46. | :54:48. | |
reconsider its position and do the right thing? It has its chance, it | :54:49. | :54:52. | |
looks like on May 9th the amendment will come back to this House again. | :54:53. | :54:56. | |
Will the Government look at this positively and for the sake of this | :54:57. | :55:00. | |
country, for all the people, even the right-wing press, will it do the | :55:01. | :55:03. | |
right thing for these children? When I was growing up in Scotland, and we | :55:04. | :55:11. | |
sometimes got an announcement which would preview the programmes, it was | :55:12. | :55:15. | |
not for viewers in Scotland. I was sort of thing maybe we could | :55:16. | :55:20. | |
resurrect this and apply it to Prime Minister's Questions. For most of | :55:21. | :55:25. | |
the last two sessions it has been about English schools, not for | :55:26. | :55:29. | |
viewers in Scotland or most other parts of the UK. The leader of the | :55:30. | :55:33. | |
opposition can raise whateverish shoo shoe he wants. It is up to him | :55:34. | :55:40. | |
-- whatever issue he wants. The time has testimony coreview Prime | :55:41. | :55:44. | |
Minister's Questions to make it -- the time has come for a review of | :55:45. | :55:48. | |
Prime Minister's Questions. Maybe the Leader of the House could | :55:49. | :55:52. | |
support that call, Mr Speaker. Can we have a debate on the Government's | :55:53. | :55:57. | |
commitments on the spending on the Clyde shipyards? I remember only too | :55:58. | :56:01. | |
well during the independence referendum and some of the things | :56:02. | :56:05. | |
which were said and I remember a leaflet that went around, which was | :56:06. | :56:09. | |
designed by the Labour and the Tory alliance and a bit together, it was | :56:10. | :56:14. | |
separation kills shipyards. It is what they said. It was a neat | :56:15. | :56:19. | |
slogan. It was all with the union and doom and gloom for secured | :56:20. | :56:23. | |
independence. We know that for the nonsense it is. It is not | :56:24. | :56:27. | |
independence that is killing shipyards, it is the union who is | :56:28. | :56:33. | |
killing it slowly and painfully by administering these yards and | :56:34. | :56:38. | |
delaying the start of works T Scottish people feel duped. Can we | :56:39. | :56:42. | |
have a debate where the Government can explain what is going and an and | :56:43. | :56:47. | |
ensure we get this work started on time. Lastly, I am sure the House, | :56:48. | :56:52. | |
as leader of the House, has full access to the Prime Minister's | :56:53. | :56:57. | |
diary. Can he explain why there's no visit to Scotland from the Prime | :56:58. | :57:00. | |
Minister in advance of a Scottish election? It is probably the last | :57:01. | :57:05. | |
person that Ruth David son would like to see if she has division and | :57:06. | :57:11. | |
beating Labour into third place in Scotland. We would love to see him. | :57:12. | :57:16. | |
Every time he appears it is an extra 2% for the Scottish National Party. | :57:17. | :57:21. | |
Can he encourage the Prime Minister, even his good self to come to | :57:22. | :57:25. | |
Scotland. The more Tories in Scotland the better for the Scottish | :57:26. | :57:28. | |
National Party. Mr Speaker, as the Honourable | :57:29. | :57:34. | |
Speaker knows I have great regard for him as a parliamentary colleague | :57:35. | :57:39. | |
but I do think sometimes his rhetoric lets him down. The idea | :57:40. | :57:43. | |
when he describes this as the most callous of Government, we are | :57:44. | :57:46. | |
providing the second largest amount of aid to all the refugee camps | :57:47. | :57:52. | |
around Syria, doing as much as any nation in the world by the United | :57:53. | :57:55. | |
States to try to help the people affected. We are taking 20,000 | :57:56. | :57:59. | |
people not from other European countries but from the refugee camps | :58:00. | :58:03. | |
where they are the most vulnerable. And when he talks about | :58:04. | :58:06. | |
unaccompanied children, we are talking unaccompanied children not | :58:07. | :58:10. | |
from other EU countries where they are safe, but from the camps where | :58:11. | :58:14. | |
they are safe. Surely that is the sensible, wise on the thoughtful and | :58:15. | :58:18. | |
considerate thing to do? It is not saying no, we won't assist. It is | :58:19. | :58:23. | |
providing assistance to those not able to make it to Europe and that | :58:24. | :58:27. | |
is a policy with resolutely stand-by. He talks about by | :58:28. | :58:30. | |
ministers questions and the discussion about education. I would | :58:31. | :58:35. | |
simply remind him that is the consequence of devolution. This is a | :58:36. | :58:38. | |
United Kingdom Parliament but it is true that in his constituency, | :58:39. | :58:42. | |
education matters are not a matter for him but for the Scottish | :58:43. | :58:46. | |
parliament. That is something we have debated over time, but the | :58:47. | :58:50. | |
reality is that it is a consequence of the Doully volution championship | :58:51. | :58:55. | |
-- devolution that he has championed over time. He talks about shipping. | :58:56. | :59:04. | |
He wants a debate and a chance to vote, he will soon have a chance to | :59:05. | :59:09. | |
vote on removing from Scotland one of the biggest defence facilities in | :59:10. | :59:15. | |
the United Kingdom, very moving jobs, and removing part of the | :59:16. | :59:22. | |
nation's defences and when he can explain his thought on that with | :59:23. | :59:27. | |
regards to Scotland, I will take him seriously. He talks about | :59:28. | :59:31. | |
conservatives in Scotland and I have been to Scotland since the start of | :59:32. | :59:35. | |
the election campaign and I am delighted to see the Conservatives | :59:36. | :59:38. | |
moving up in the polls, though I am sure there is no connection between | :59:39. | :59:41. | |
the two, and all of us on the side of the House believes we have the | :59:42. | :59:46. | |
best leader in Scotland and we believe she will play a crucial part | :59:47. | :59:49. | |
in its affairs over the coming years as people come to realise that the | :59:50. | :59:53. | |
SNP Government in Edinburgh may make a lot of noise, but it's actually | :59:54. | :00:00. | |
incapable of getting the job done. On the 12th of May, the Prime | :00:01. | :00:04. | |
Minister is hosting an anti-corruption Summit in London | :00:05. | :00:08. | |
which has never happened before and I think it will have far reaching | :00:09. | :00:13. | |
impact. Can we have a debate conferred -- concerning the British | :00:14. | :00:16. | |
Overseas Territories and Crown dependencies on a process for | :00:17. | :00:24. | |
benefit information. This is a subject to be debated in Westminster | :00:25. | :00:27. | |
Hall shortly but by honourable friend is absolutely right about the | :00:28. | :00:30. | |
role this Government has played in the last six years, bursting | :00:31. | :00:34. | |
coalition and then on our own. We have delivered -- inevitable change | :00:35. | :00:39. | |
than any previous Government and we should be proud of that. I thank the | :00:40. | :00:47. | |
leader for the announcement of the business and with this afternoon's | :00:48. | :00:51. | |
business which is nominated by the backbench business committed and the | :00:52. | :00:58. | |
half day and day next week that he has announced, we are inching ever | :00:59. | :01:03. | |
closer to the 27 days which the backbench business committee are | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
entitled to within the parliamentary session and I do thank the Leader of | :01:08. | :01:12. | |
the House for that. As has been mentioned, today is Workers Memorial | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
Day and it is a day that is commemorated by the TUC and trades | :01:17. | :01:22. | |
councils all around the country and in my own constituency there will be | :01:23. | :01:28. | |
a memorial service at noon today. We say, remember the date -- the dead, | :01:29. | :01:35. | |
remember the living. It is for those who die within their workplace. I | :01:36. | :01:40. | |
wonder if the leader would consider recognising Workers Memorial Day in | :01:41. | :01:46. | |
the future Parliamentary calendar? Well, Mr Speaker, can I say first of | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
all on the subject of Workers Memorial Day that this country is a | :01:51. | :01:53. | |
better place than it was in the past? He is right, representing an | :01:54. | :01:59. | |
area where there have been great industrial accidents in the past, to | :02:00. | :02:04. | |
recognise the progress made but also to recognise those who died before | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
that progress was made. None of us would want to go back to those days | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
and even though we often debate the complexity of health and safety, I | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
put on record that in my view it is in no way in the interest of anyone | :02:17. | :02:22. | |
in this country to have an environment where people are at risk | :02:23. | :02:25. | |
in the workplace. When industrial accidents happen, as tragically | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
happened at Didcot power station recently, we all regret it and I pay | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
tribute to him and all sides of the House for the work they do to mark | :02:35. | :02:38. | |
this occasion and that has never go back to a time when these things | :02:39. | :02:45. | |
were commonplace in our country. With regards to the Parliamentary | :02:46. | :02:50. | |
character, I am sure he will find an opportunity to recognise this | :02:51. | :02:54. | |
important day but also to ensure that in coming years, the same | :02:55. | :02:58. | |
opportunity is there for members of the House. -- the Parliamentary | :02:59. | :03:05. | |
calendar. Macy, a nine-year-old girl in my constituency is not well at | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
the moment. I think she was taken into hospital again last night. To | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
make her completely better, she's going to have to go to the United | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
States and the NHS are providing for that. But there was a problem | :03:19. | :03:21. | |
because she couldn't get her passport. She doesn't have a | :03:22. | :03:24. | |
passport and her mother doesn't have a passport and it would have taken | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
up to six weeks for this to have occurred. Thanks to the intervention | :03:29. | :03:34. | |
by my friend, the honourable member for Northampton North, and a | :03:35. | :03:40. | |
personal intervention of the Home Secretary, the passports are now | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
going to be sorted out tomorrow. Macy asked if I could thank the | :03:45. | :03:51. | |
House for that and in particular the Home Secretary. So perhaps we could | :03:52. | :03:55. | |
have a general debate sometime in the future about how the Government | :03:56. | :03:58. | |
can, at times, work together for common sense? Mr Speaker, I think my | :03:59. | :04:04. | |
honourable friend's words say at all. We wish her all the very best | :04:05. | :04:10. | |
for her treatment and her recovery. It is nice to see. Very often the | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
image of this place is one of political debate and confrontation, | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
but actually behind the scenes there are decent people on all sides of | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
this House, of whom he is one, working under half of their | :04:24. | :04:25. | |
constituents, trying to solve problems like this one where all of | :04:26. | :04:28. | |
us would want the right thing to be done. Mr Speaker, the Leader of the | :04:29. | :04:34. | |
House will know that Calvin Thomas is retiring today after 26 years | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
great service to the House, including six teen years as a | :04:39. | :04:41. | |
doorkeeper and in the special gallery since 2009. I know Calvin | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
well personally because we have sometimes been confused with each | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
other due to our similar if different names. He has been | :04:50. | :04:55. | |
consistently charming in carrying out his duties as a valued member of | :04:56. | :05:02. | |
our staff, so may I raise the banks of all the members of the staff and | :05:03. | :05:05. | |
wish him a happy retirement on our behalf? The honourable gentleman has | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
had said it eloquently on behalf of all of us and I would echo his | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
words, not only to which Calvin a very happy retirement but also to | :05:16. | :05:18. | |
express thanks to our doorkeepers who are great servants to this | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
House, treating us all with great courtesy and good humour, performing | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
valuable work for us and we value what they do enormously. As my right | :05:27. | :05:33. | |
honourable friend may know, the UK sepsis trust has been working for | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
some time with the Secretary of State for Health to try to establish | :05:38. | :05:43. | |
a public awareness campaign. This. Sepsis currently claims around | :05:44. | :05:49. | |
44,000 lives in the UK a year and the symptoms of the disease are | :05:50. | :05:52. | |
still not well recognised. Do you think we could have a debate on what | :05:53. | :05:59. | |
could be done to introduce a sepsis specific awareness campaign for both | :06:00. | :06:01. | |
children and adults because I believe it would save the lives of | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
thousands of people every year? Mr Speaker, can I start by | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
congratulating my honourable friend on the work she is doing in this | :06:12. | :06:14. | |
important area and say I am aware that the Secretary of State is | :06:15. | :06:17. | |
taking this issue enormously seriously. He has had meetings about | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
the kind of work she is talking about and I am sure he will wish to | :06:23. | :06:26. | |
take that forward. It is of course a very serious matter and it is | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
beholden upon us, Mr Speaker, as representatives of our constituents | :06:32. | :06:35. | |
as well as members of the Government to deal with challenges like that. I | :06:36. | :06:44. | |
would ask the Leader of the House to condemn the Labour PCC candidate in | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
North Wales for the appallingly callous Twitter comments which can | :06:48. | :06:50. | |
only be interrupted by right thinking candidates as marking | :06:51. | :06:57. | |
Hillsborough families. I tend to this. We'll be Leader of the House | :06:58. | :07:07. | |
presently Business Secretary to make a statement to ensure Port Talbot | :07:08. | :07:13. | |
workers that this Government priorities -- prioritises their | :07:14. | :07:19. | |
future indeed as well is worth? All future decisions will be made on | :07:20. | :07:25. | |
evidence -based research? Mr Speaker, I can ensure the honourable | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
lady that this is a matter the Government takes enormously | :07:30. | :07:31. | |
seriously. The Secretary of State for business will be here next week | :07:32. | :07:34. | |
and I would say to her this is something the Government has taken | :07:35. | :07:37. | |
interest in from the Prime Minister downwards. He has taken a personal | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
interest and none of us want to see Paul Tolbert disappear. We all want | :07:42. | :07:44. | |
to make steel and we will all make sure that it continues. Can we find | :07:45. | :07:56. | |
time for a debate on the conduct of the EU referendum campaign so far? | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
Can this thing in the south-west I have filed local residents | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
absolutely angered by the intervention of the outgoing | :08:06. | :08:10. | |
president and the intervention of national affairs and the ?9 million | :08:11. | :08:18. | |
which has been spent on the leaflet and think the booklet making | :08:19. | :08:21. | |
predictions for 2030 is crazy, when just like weather forecasters they | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
cannot get their projections right for the next day? My honourable | :08:26. | :08:35. | |
friend is a vigorous campaigner on these issues and he will be able to | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
take part in a debate on the 9th of May. The interesting thing is, will | :08:40. | :08:48. | |
be factors he has described have an impact on the poll he is describing? | :08:49. | :08:56. | |
We have heard from the Shadow Leader of the House this morning that a | :08:57. | :08:58. | |
British Airways computer system despite -- designed to stop the | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
movement of terrorists crashed for 48 hours last year. I have also | :09:04. | :09:09. | |
learned that an outsourcing programme at BA threatens 800 | :09:10. | :09:12. | |
skilled workers, skilled workers who are working to protect our country. | :09:13. | :09:18. | |
May we therefore have a debate to discuss the role of outsourcing in | :09:19. | :09:21. | |
this event and to stop BA from threatening our national security to | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
save money? The Government takes our national security enormously | :09:27. | :09:30. | |
importantly and of course, while the failure she talks about to Place, | :09:31. | :09:34. | |
border control checks do and will always remain in place. Passports | :09:35. | :09:37. | |
are checked when people arrive in this country and the new border | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
system is mostly about trying to check people when they leave the | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
country. It is something we hoped would happen many years ago but it | :09:46. | :09:54. | |
never came to pass. Can we have a debate in Government time on the | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
implications for the United Kingdom of the five presidents report on | :10:00. | :10:02. | |
economic monetary union, because as my right honourable friend will be | :10:03. | :10:06. | |
aware, under the guise of single market legislation, the proposals | :10:07. | :10:10. | |
are to take Intel can signal, company law and is property rights, | :10:11. | :10:19. | |
so don't we have a duty to talk about the consequences of remaining | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
in the European Union? The five Presidents report is a major | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
document which sets out the visions of the institution for the next ten | :10:29. | :10:33. | |
years and it has and will provoke a lively debate about the future of | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
this country and the European Union as a whole. If my honourable friend | :10:38. | :10:40. | |
feels it is a matter that should be debated in this House, I would | :10:41. | :10:46. | |
suggest, and I suspect they would be time available, and I would suggest | :10:47. | :10:51. | |
a debate on the subject would attract widespread participation. | :10:52. | :10:58. | |
Last week during prime ministers questions I raised a very serious | :10:59. | :11:01. | |
issue of food banks increasing in the last year alone of 20% and this | :11:02. | :11:07. | |
is precisely due to benefit delays and even more criminally benefit | :11:08. | :11:14. | |
sanctions. One person had been sanctioned for three whole years. | :11:15. | :11:17. | |
The reply I got from the Leader of the House was, this could only | :11:18. | :11:21. | |
happen if three reasonable job offers had been turned down so I | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
want to return to this issue to answer a question. Paul was on ?36 a | :11:26. | :11:31. | |
week. He was on three sanctions you to not filling out his job log but | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
correctly. He turned up ten minutes late due to problems getting a bus | :11:37. | :11:41. | |
and thirdly, he was waiting for an hour at the Jobcentre which he had | :11:42. | :11:45. | |
two expresses dissatisfaction for. Living on ?36 a week for three whole | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
years, I would like them to consider as a matter of urgency a debate on | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
the sanctions on an increasing number of people are having to | :11:55. | :11:57. | |
depend on the Sanctuary -- the charity of others. | :11:58. | :12:03. | |
I suggest the honourable gentleman looks at the circumstances of the | :12:04. | :12:09. | |
case closely because I produced the sanction and it was a judge is for | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
people who are on three separate occasions turned only reasonable job | :12:15. | :12:17. | |
offer, people who refused to work, and it remains my view that people | :12:18. | :12:20. | |
who refuse to work and refuse to work again and again should not be | :12:21. | :12:22. | |
entitled to carry on receiving support from the benefit system. | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
Last week in the excellent news, really welcome news that my | :12:28. | :12:33. | |
honourable friend the Secretary of State for Education and safeguard | :12:34. | :12:35. | |
the qualifications and teaching of community language. Gujarati, | :12:36. | :12:43. | |
Bengali, who do, Japanese, Arabic, modern Greek, modern Hebrew, | :12:44. | :12:51. | |
Portuguese and Turkish. That means we have safeguarded the | :12:52. | :12:53. | |
qualifications and the teachings of these vital languages in the modern | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
world so that everyone can communicate. Unfortunately, the | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
Secretary of State was not able at Questions this week to regale the | :13:04. | :13:06. | |
good news and I don't think something like this should be left | :13:07. | :13:09. | |
to wither on the vine so surely we should have a statement on this | :13:10. | :13:13. | |
position so that we can actually make sure that everyone understands | :13:14. | :13:19. | |
that from 2018, these languages are safeguarded our education system. Of | :13:20. | :13:22. | |
course this is enormously important and why we have the benefit of this | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
country and the news we had to an international language and English, | :13:27. | :13:30. | |
it is right and proper that as a cosmopolitan society we champion | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
languages that not only preserve the communities that live here but also | :13:36. | :13:38. | |
open enormous opportunities for Britain around the world saw my | :13:39. | :13:41. | |
honourable friend makes an important point and I have no doubt she will | :13:42. | :13:44. | |
look into the different channels available to him to make sure these | :13:45. | :13:49. | |
matters are debated a lot more in this House. Last week I spoke in the | :13:50. | :13:58. | |
introduction of the national living wage debate to highlight the | :13:59. | :14:01. | |
injustice of the decision to deny the living wage to under 25 is. A | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
young person could start work at 18 and be in a role for seven years | :14:07. | :14:12. | |
before being paid the same as their older and potentially less | :14:13. | :14:14. | |
experienced colleagues. Can we give members the time to write this wrong | :14:15. | :14:20. | |
and extend a living wage to people under 25? It was the policy of this | :14:21. | :14:27. | |
Government and previous Government to differentiate between older and | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
younger workers precisely because when a young worker enters the | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
workplace, the employer is making an investment decision as well as a | :14:36. | :14:39. | |
recruitment decision. The employer takes responsibility for training | :14:40. | :14:49. | |
and developing that worker. Many young people who start on the | :14:50. | :14:52. | |
national living which will live on through success either in their own | :14:53. | :14:56. | |
workplace or moving to another job to move up the pace skill but I | :14:57. | :14:59. | |
think it is important to do everything we can to incentivise | :15:00. | :15:07. | |
employers to take on young people. As we're talking about the dodgy | :15:08. | :15:13. | |
behaviour of PCC candidates, a number of folks standing for | :15:14. | :15:19. | |
election next week are previous coppers who are trading on the | :15:20. | :15:22. | |
record as police officers. Does he agree with me that they should bring | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
forward proposals to make sure that those standing to be PCC makes their | :15:27. | :15:30. | |
police service records available for scrutiny? My honourable friend makes | :15:31. | :15:36. | |
an important point, I am aware of allegations around the Labour PCC | :15:37. | :15:41. | |
candidate in Humberside. It is absolutely the case that if the | :15:42. | :15:45. | |
story alleged is true, he is unfit for public office and it is a matter | :15:46. | :15:49. | |
of public interest that the two should be known before election day. | :15:50. | :15:55. | |
Back in 1847 when Lord John Russell was Prime Minister, our taxi | :15:56. | :16:02. | |
licensing laws were developed. We now have a problem in the North West | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
of England where one particular local authority is handing out | :16:07. | :16:11. | |
Hackney taxi licences like sweeties. The problem we've got is that once | :16:12. | :16:15. | |
you have a hackney license, you can operate as a private hire a anywhere | :16:16. | :16:21. | |
in the country so there are no taxis on this local authority operating as | :16:22. | :16:25. | |
far afield as Bristol without appropriate checks and balances so | :16:26. | :16:29. | |
can we have an urgent debate on how we bring up to date our taxi | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
licensing regime? The honourable gentleman makes a good point and I | :16:35. | :16:39. | |
was not aware of the situation. I will make sure that as John to the | :16:40. | :16:43. | |
attention of the Secretary of State who was also unaware I'm sure I will | :16:44. | :16:51. | |
look at the matter seriously. The Secretary of State for communities | :16:52. | :16:53. | |
and local Government has threatened to introduce legislation which would | :16:54. | :16:56. | |
make it illegal for those in my constituency to charge on Government | :16:57. | :17:02. | |
and organise sporting event which attracts the few hundred people to a | :17:03. | :17:10. | |
small part every weekend. I think it is a tad hypocritical. Could I ask | :17:11. | :17:13. | |
my honourable friend if we can have a debate on the power of local | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
councils the freedom to charge organisers who run sporting events | :17:19. | :17:22. | |
in their parks? I am not aware of the proposal my honourable friend | :17:23. | :17:26. | |
refers to it but I understand his concern and I can see why he would | :17:27. | :17:30. | |
raise this as a matter of importance in the House today. What I would say | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
to him is that I will draw that to the Secretary of State. Clearly we | :17:36. | :17:38. | |
want to encourage local authorities to support and develop and underpin | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
events like this that bring communities together. He makes an | :17:44. | :17:45. | |
important point about his own constituency. I'll make sure we get | :17:46. | :17:51. | |
the proper response for you. This week seen a dispute between the | :17:52. | :17:57. | |
other place in this chamber and instead of leading to accompanied | :17:58. | :18:03. | |
refugee children being allowed in, it will lead to more cronies in the | :18:04. | :18:06. | |
House of Lords. The leader said there is no appetite for proper | :18:07. | :18:10. | |
reform. I would like to ask him to make a statement, asking when is the | :18:11. | :18:13. | |
public appetite for even more cronies and donors in the 800 that | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
exist at present and where does the manifesto commitment to continue | :18:19. | :18:23. | |
stuffing that other place? I do think the honourable gentleman and | :18:24. | :18:25. | |
his colleagues opposite insult many of the very deserving and very | :18:26. | :18:31. | |
effective people operating the other place, people who represent the | :18:32. | :18:37. | |
disability lobby who have serious disabilities themselves, people who | :18:38. | :18:39. | |
represent the arts world who have long track record in the arts, | :18:40. | :18:45. | |
people from the business world. I think the expertise and the other | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
place brings something significant to our parliamentary system even | :18:50. | :18:52. | |
though sometimes the two houses disagree over issues are weak -- as | :18:53. | :19:01. | |
we are currently. Given the delays my constituents have faced in reform | :19:02. | :19:09. | |
payments, could we have a debate on farmers whose land crosses the | :19:10. | :19:13. | |
English and Welsh borders and Scottish and English borderers who | :19:14. | :19:15. | |
always appear to be at the back of the queue? This of course remains an | :19:16. | :19:23. | |
issue. I have spoken to the department about this and it is true | :19:24. | :19:28. | |
across the country that the vast majority of payments have now been | :19:29. | :19:32. | |
made but I hear the point my honourable friend makes an owl make | :19:33. | :19:34. | |
sure the Secretary of State is aware of his concerns and she will be here | :19:35. | :19:37. | |
next week and will be able to respond to him fully. The Leader of | :19:38. | :19:44. | |
the House will be aware of the emerging crisis at the yards on the | :19:45. | :19:50. | |
Clyde tasked with building the type 26 frigate. A late start of the | :19:51. | :19:53. | |
project and uncertainty over the future workflow threatens hundreds | :19:54. | :19:59. | |
of jobs at Govan in Scotstoun. Can we therefore have a debate on | :20:00. | :20:02. | |
Government time to allow members of this House to discuss in depth the | :20:03. | :20:06. | |
future of the Klein ship building industry -- Clyde, and give a voice | :20:07. | :20:13. | |
to those workers and should of the future? The reason the Clyde | :20:14. | :20:18. | |
shipbuilding industry has a strong future is twofold, firstly because | :20:19. | :20:22. | |
they remain part of the United Kingdom and therefore benefit from | :20:23. | :20:25. | |
the United Kingdom's defence spending and the second is because | :20:26. | :20:28. | |
this Government has committed to the 2% spending level is part of our | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
commitment to Nato. If those things were not happening, of course the | :20:33. | :20:36. | |
future would be much more uncertain but I'm convinced that the Clyde | :20:37. | :20:40. | |
shipyards have a strong future. They are an essential part of and we need | :20:41. | :20:45. | |
to make sure they continue to flourish. I have a statement about | :20:46. | :20:52. | |
the treatment of Idaho is about politicians, petitions that | :20:53. | :20:54. | |
attracted large number of signatures. As the leader knows, | :20:55. | :20:57. | |
there's going to be a debate on the 9th of May about the petition to | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
stop the Government spending sums of public money on pro Remain EU | :21:02. | :21:14. | |
referendum. 2072 have so far signed as a few moments ago but that debate | :21:15. | :21:20. | |
will be held in Westminster hall were no vote can be held. Should it | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
not be a possibility for the backbench business committee to hold | :21:26. | :21:32. | |
such debates in the main chamber because otherwise petitioners will | :21:33. | :21:35. | |
be disappointed to find that although their concerns get debated, | :21:36. | :21:42. | |
the House is unable to vote on them? My honourable friend makes an | :21:43. | :21:46. | |
important point and not only on the subject, there are others, I do | :21:47. | :21:48. | |
think I would encourage discourse between the two honourable members | :21:49. | :21:54. | |
who cheer the business and backbench committees to see how well it | :21:55. | :22:00. | |
petition reaches a certain level of public interest that the debate can | :22:01. | :22:03. | |
be brought to the front of the House. Perhaps I can see from the | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
chair, I think that would be a very good thing. I wouldn't dream of | :22:09. | :22:11. | |
taking sides on the issues but in terms of the link dream Parliament | :22:12. | :22:17. | |
and the people, I think it is very important that it be not just | :22:18. | :22:22. | |
tangible but meaningful and a little scope for progress there so I very | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
much appreciate what the Leader of the House has said. On that topic of | :22:27. | :22:33. | |
democracy and having votes, the House divided last week on a motion | :22:34. | :22:38. | |
to ask the UK Government to bring to the UN security council the issue of | :22:39. | :22:42. | |
genocide against Christians, Yazidis and other people. The House 4278 | :22:43. | :22:51. | |
votes to zero. What the House do to bring the Government to account to | :22:52. | :22:53. | |
make sure that it respects the democracy of this place and do what | :22:54. | :22:57. | |
it has been asked to do and make sure that we take crimes against the | :22:58. | :23:02. | |
people in these countries to the UN Security Council as major action is | :23:03. | :23:08. | |
taken? The Government's position as one of shock, horror and | :23:09. | :23:11. | |
condemnation about what has taken place, that is an unreserved | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
statement, and I know that my honourable friend the Foreign | :23:17. | :23:18. | |
Secretary is taking careful note of the view of the House as expressed | :23:19. | :23:22. | |
in the debate that the honourable gentleman refers to. I recently had | :23:23. | :23:28. | |
cause to write to the president of the European Commission asking him | :23:29. | :23:31. | |
to clarify the role his commission is playing in her EU referendum. I | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
have had no answer but given the fact that the commission spent ?560 | :23:37. | :23:41. | |
million directly promoting itself in 2014, that the commission interfered | :23:42. | :23:47. | |
in the Irish referendum in 2009, could we have a statement from the | :23:48. | :23:53. | |
Government as to whether it believes EU interviewers in this referendum | :23:54. | :23:56. | |
as well, not? As I understand, it has no powers to prevent the EU | :23:57. | :24:02. | |
being an unwelcome active participant in our democratic | :24:03. | :24:07. | |
process. I can confirm that that is the case. However, I'm sure there | :24:08. | :24:10. | |
will be different opinions in this House as to whether such an | :24:11. | :24:13. | |
intervention would be helpful or unhelpful to either side of the | :24:14. | :24:20. | |
argument. The minister who spoke from that dispatch box less than a | :24:21. | :24:26. | |
year ago is now employed by industry in China, presumably using his | :24:27. | :24:33. | |
insider knowledge with firms that bring competition with British | :24:34. | :24:40. | |
industries. 70% of former civil servants on income tax are now | :24:41. | :24:43. | |
working in the retirement tax avoidance industry, there should be | :24:44. | :24:55. | |
a fierce, Rottweiler watchdog but there is nothing but a poodle | :24:56. | :25:04. | |
without teeth or clause, Bart -- bark or bite and it is useless. Tell | :25:05. | :25:14. | |
us what you really think! I'm not sure if my memory is correct but if | :25:15. | :25:18. | |
I remember rightly, the committee to which she referred was set up by the | :25:19. | :25:22. | |
party of which she is a part and I would remind him that it was a | :25:23. | :25:26. | |
senior member of his own party who describe themselves after leaving | :25:27. | :25:29. | |
office and well in pursuit of commercial opportunities as a taxi | :25:30. | :25:42. | |
for hire. I visited the rugby junket is project in my constituency under | :25:43. | :25:45. | |
the inspirational dealership of Annette Callier for amazing young | :25:46. | :25:50. | |
people who play a part in the care of family members so I was concerned | :25:51. | :25:54. | |
to hear that Warwickshire Young carers Project will lose funding | :25:55. | :25:59. | |
that affects those under 18 and it will have an effect in rugby. Can I | :26:00. | :26:04. | |
ask for a debate in the importance of properly supporting these young | :26:05. | :26:08. | |
people? My friend makes an important point. One of the most invisible | :26:09. | :26:13. | |
drips of yours are our young carers. None of us understand it until we | :26:14. | :26:19. | |
come across it, how a child can be a full-time carer for a parent. I have | :26:20. | :26:23. | |
a young carers in my constituency which does enormously valuable work. | :26:24. | :26:28. | |
His grip plays an important role clearly and I'm sure he will do | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
everything he can to make sure its future is guaranteed because it is | :26:33. | :26:34. | |
important to the communities represents. | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
I'm becoming increasingly concerned about the discriminatory language | :26:40. | :26:45. | |
that has been used in the chamber recently the Education Secretary | :26:46. | :26:50. | |
called the opposition death, using deafness as a pejorative term, which | :26:51. | :26:55. | |
I think is unacceptable. The Prime Minister used the term pond see, | :26:56. | :26:58. | |
which many people think is homophobic. I wonder if we could | :26:59. | :27:02. | |
have a statement about the language that we use in this chamber. Mr | :27:03. | :27:10. | |
Speaker, I think people here in words what they want to hear but the | :27:11. | :27:13. | |
one thing I would say is that nobody could accuse the pie Minister of | :27:14. | :27:19. | |
homophobia. The man who bought this House and saw through same-sex | :27:20. | :27:22. | |
marriage is not somebody who could ever be described as homophobic. We | :27:23. | :27:28. | |
know that there has been a very thorough committee meeting on the UK | :27:29. | :27:34. | |
steel industry but will be Leader of the House organised a statement to | :27:35. | :27:38. | |
be put out next week so that all members are able to put questions to | :27:39. | :27:41. | |
ministers on behalf of our steel towns, because it is very important | :27:42. | :27:48. | |
that both we and our constituents know exactly what is happening and | :27:49. | :27:51. | |
what process -- progress is being made to secure the industry? All of | :27:52. | :28:00. | |
those who represent steel towns have done a great job in recent weeks to | :28:01. | :28:04. | |
remind us of the importance of that industry and I commend them for | :28:05. | :28:09. | |
that. I can lay on just such an opportunity because next week is the | :28:10. | :28:12. | |
Business Secretary them skills questions and he will be -- he will | :28:13. | :28:17. | |
be able to put it to the Secretary of State then. Heart of the press | :28:18. | :28:23. | |
this morning is early day motion 1432 which backs up the bill I | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
produced on Tuesday to abolish hereditary peers rights to vote and | :28:28. | :28:32. | |
speak in the House of Lords. Given that there are now the same number | :28:33. | :28:35. | |
of members on the front bench of the Government as they were voting in | :28:36. | :28:38. | |
the election of hereditary peers last week, is there not -- is it not | :28:39. | :28:45. | |
time we had a debate to and this farcical process? The party opposite | :28:46. | :28:52. | |
was endowment for 13 years but didn't address the issue they are | :28:53. | :28:58. | |
calling for change on. We all admit that there is something curiously | :28:59. | :29:00. | |
quaint about the Liberal Democrat electorate of three and one has to | :29:01. | :29:06. | |
cut them a bit of slack because there are so few of them these days, | :29:07. | :29:10. | |
but my view is that there are pressing issues facing this country | :29:11. | :29:15. | |
and probably dealing with three people is not top of them. Can I ask | :29:16. | :29:22. | |
the Leader of the House if we can have a debate on the London licensed | :29:23. | :29:27. | |
taxi trade? My black cab drivers in my constituency offer a lots more to | :29:28. | :29:30. | |
London and their community than Uber does. Mr Speaker, my honourable | :29:31. | :29:39. | |
friend makes an important point and in the free market, London taxi | :29:40. | :29:42. | |
drivers do face challenges, but I believe they are the best in the | :29:43. | :29:45. | |
world. I believe they bring something of immense value to our | :29:46. | :29:49. | |
city and I don't believe anything that any of us in politics, either | :29:50. | :29:53. | |
at this level or at the London level, would wish to jeopardise | :29:54. | :29:59. | |
that. Because of statements made in the back page business debate a | :30:00. | :30:04. | |
couple of weeks ago in this House, I presume the Government will see for | :30:05. | :30:10. | |
security review the Chilcott report last week. Can the Leader of the | :30:11. | :30:15. | |
House are daters when we can expect a debate in the House? I am aware | :30:16. | :30:19. | |
that it is now going through what I hope are the final processes before | :30:20. | :30:23. | |
publication and I have said to this House before there is not a person | :30:24. | :30:26. | |
on our side of the House who would not wish to see that report out and | :30:27. | :30:29. | |
published. We were not in power at the time so the issues in their do | :30:30. | :30:34. | |
not affect us. We want to see the truth out there and we want to learn | :30:35. | :30:36. | |
lessons about the Chilcott process in the event of this other having to | :30:37. | :30:46. | |
happen again. Could we have a debate on making it easier for metropolitan | :30:47. | :30:53. | |
councils to switch to all-out elections or elections by halves, | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
said that councils like Dudley can cut the cost of local politics but | :30:58. | :31:02. | |
Mr Speaker, it is of course an important issue. They have the | :31:03. | :31:06. | |
bleeding to do that. It is a matter for local councils as to whether | :31:07. | :31:12. | |
they have elections in thirds, hard or individually and my personal view | :31:13. | :31:16. | |
is that it is a real hike for a local council to do elections every | :31:17. | :31:20. | |
year and I prefer all out elections by self but that is down to local | :31:21. | :31:29. | |
decision-making. Every year on the Sunday closest to St George's Day | :31:30. | :31:32. | |
Enfield Scouts and guides take part in St George 's date parades through | :31:33. | :31:39. | |
Enfield town and I am normally there with them. It is a fantastic day. I | :31:40. | :31:44. | |
want to pay to be to be Scouts and the guides but particularly to all | :31:45. | :31:50. | |
the volunteer leaders who enable Scouts and guides to happen for our | :31:51. | :31:53. | |
young people and what a good job they do. I am very concerned that | :31:54. | :31:58. | |
with the cuts that the Government is passing down to local authorities, | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
youth services are severely at risk and I would ask for a debate in | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
Government time to consider this problem that is affecting our young | :32:09. | :32:14. | |
people and their families. Mr Speaker, can I also pay tribute to | :32:15. | :32:18. | |
the honourable lady for what she had said about anti-Semitism in her | :32:19. | :32:22. | |
party. It brings credit to her as it does to the Shadow leader. Can I | :32:23. | :32:25. | |
also say to her that I absolutely at tree with her on the role of the | :32:26. | :32:29. | |
Scouts and guides but I would say that of course what they represent | :32:30. | :32:32. | |
is the best of our voluntary sector and I think that sometimes we look | :32:33. | :32:36. | |
to depend too much on the Government and public sector for the best work. | :32:37. | :32:39. | |
That work is happening without any involvement of the Government and | :32:40. | :32:43. | |
has done in the centuries since the Scouts and guides movement was | :32:44. | :32:49. | |
formed and long may it continue. The Jewish immunity has a history with | :32:50. | :32:54. | |
Scotland going beyond 200 years -- 's Jewish community, and I know | :32:55. | :33:01. | |
members of this House will want to send a message that we value the | :33:02. | :33:05. | |
contribution they have made not just in Scotland but across the United | :33:06. | :33:10. | |
Kingdom. With that in mind and given events this week, can we have a | :33:11. | :33:14. | |
debate on the valuable contribution that they have made to civil society | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
in this country and, equally important, how we retard | :33:20. | :33:22. | |
anti-Semitism in our political discourse in this country? The | :33:23. | :33:28. | |
honourable gentleman makes a clearly important point and we have heard | :33:29. | :33:35. | |
important contributions on that subject today. This is not just | :33:36. | :33:43. | |
about anti-Semitism. It is about as phobia and prejudices against other | :33:44. | :33:48. | |
groups in our society. There is no place in our society for racial | :33:49. | :33:52. | |
prejudice. It has no place and we should unreservedly condemn it | :33:53. | :33:58. | |
whenever we find it. I would like to ask if we could possibly in light of | :33:59. | :34:06. | |
changes to the railways have a debate about how community groups, | :34:07. | :34:10. | |
such as mining Berry, could lead to discuss how they can drive forward | :34:11. | :34:15. | |
local ownership of railway assets that are to be disposed of so that | :34:16. | :34:18. | |
local people get a say in what happens in their locality? This is | :34:19. | :34:23. | |
actually a very important point and we have to be very careful about | :34:24. | :34:28. | |
disposing of our assets for two reasons. One, as she has described, | :34:29. | :34:33. | |
and the other because local authorities often have a vision to | :34:34. | :34:40. | |
bring transport back into the locale and if that is sold off, that option | :34:41. | :34:44. | |
is taken away. One of the things I am proud of is the reopening of | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
railway lines and railway corridors of the last 15 years. You will be | :34:50. | :34:52. | |
aware, Mr Speaker, that recently a new service was opened from Oxford | :34:53. | :34:58. | |
to London Marylebone across lines which were previously disused and | :34:59. | :35:01. | |
have been brought into operation again and Chiltern Railways. She | :35:02. | :35:05. | |
makes an important point because had decisions being made to dispose of | :35:06. | :35:08. | |
those facilities, that route would not have been possible. We'll ready | :35:09. | :35:15. | |
see the reopening of the line from Cambridge, said she makes an | :35:16. | :35:18. | |
important point about heroin constituency but it is applicable | :35:19. | :35:23. | |
across the country. Last month in business questions I raised the | :35:24. | :35:31. | |
point of Mike constituent -- of my constituency who took a drug which | :35:32. | :35:35. | |
left her children with birth defects. I was advised to raise this | :35:36. | :35:39. | |
at health questions but unfortunately I wasn't successful | :35:40. | :35:43. | |
and I wonder if you have any advice for me on how I can raise the issue | :35:44. | :35:50. | |
of this drug? The health minister has just arrived in the House, so | :35:51. | :35:56. | |
that opportunity, and will probably have heard what she said, but I will | :35:57. | :36:00. | |
raise this with the Department of Health for her at the end of this | :36:01. | :36:04. | |
session and I will ask the appropriate minister to respond to | :36:05. | :36:08. | |
her. She makes a good point and it is one we must be clear of. Many | :36:09. | :36:15. | |
drugs make a difference to our society but when there are side | :36:16. | :36:17. | |
effects like that that she refers to, we must be very careful I am | :36:18. | :36:24. | |
most anxious that the Minister on the Treasury bench should have an | :36:25. | :36:34. | |
opportunity to regain his breath. He is a very welcome arrival. He has | :36:35. | :36:37. | |
just done the marathon. That might be why he is out of breath. Mr | :36:38. | :36:44. | |
Speaker, could we have a debate to discuss the crazy situation I faced | :36:45. | :36:47. | |
in Bexhill and Battle where our local authority has parking | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
enforcement matters the responsibility of the police, who | :36:52. | :36:57. | |
have stated that they can no log do this because they are required to | :36:58. | :37:00. | |
look after policing matters. The local authority refused to take it | :37:01. | :37:05. | |
on and this is driving our residents and business people absolutely mad. | :37:06. | :37:08. | |
Could we have a debate about whether the men should step in and end this | :37:09. | :37:14. | |
madness? Before I answer that, in relation to the arrival of my | :37:15. | :37:17. | |
honourable friend for North East Bedfordshire, can I pay tribute to | :37:18. | :37:20. | |
him but to all the members of the House he ran the marathon last | :37:21. | :37:24. | |
weekend and emerged with medals around their neck, and in the past, | :37:25. | :37:34. | |
but I'd like to focus on this year, please, and I commend all those who | :37:35. | :37:40. | |
raised funds for charity, raised awareness of charities and they | :37:41. | :37:45. | |
deserve a collective pat on the back from people of this House. What I | :37:46. | :37:50. | |
would say from my honourable friend is that he is right. I can | :37:51. | :37:53. | |
understand the frustration that local businesses have I would urge | :37:54. | :37:57. | |
him to be double the on local authorities. If they have enough | :37:58. | :38:00. | |
people coming behind him and what he wants to achieve, in the end, they | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
will have to give way. I am grateful to the Leader of the House and I | :38:05. | :38:08. | |
join him in congratulating the Minister on the front bench on | :38:09. | :38:11. | |
running the marathon again and all other participants in the marathon. | :38:12. | :38:17. | |
But the Leader of the House said is both right and greatly appreciated | :38:18. | :38:23. | |
by colleagues. We come now to the first of our two debates under the | :38:24. | :38:26. | |
auspices of the backbench business committee. This first debate on the | :38:27. | :38:34. | |
subject of World Autism Awareness Week. The precise timings have yet | :38:35. | :38:39. | |
to be determined but I should just say to the House there is a very | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
sharp imbalance in favour of the first debate as against the second. | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
A lot more people trying to take part in this debate and that will | :38:48. | :38:52. | |
influence the judgment of the chair as to how long this debate should be | :38:53. | :38:57. | |
allowed to run. In short, there will be an allocation of time for the | :38:58. | :39:01. | |
second debate, but it will very properly be a lesser allocation of | :39:02. | :39:06. | |
time. To move the motion, I called Mrs Cheryl Gillan. I beg to move the | :39:07. | :39:14. | |
motion that this House notes that World Autism Week was held from the | :39:15. | :39:17. | |
second to the 8th of April when we were on recess and we believe there | :39:18. | :39:22. | |
is a lack of understanding into the needs of autistic people and their | :39:23. | :39:26. | |
families and calls on the Government to improve diagnosis waiting time | :39:27. | :39:29. | |
and support a public awareness campaign so that people can make the | :39:30. | :39:35. | |
changes that will help the UK become autism friendly. I would like to put | :39:36. | :39:40. | |
on record, first of all my thanks to members of the backbench business | :39:41. | :39:45. | |
committee that have granted this debate this afternoon, and also to | :39:46. | :39:49. | |
the chair for indicating that he may be willing to extend the debate | :39:50. | :39:52. | |
because of the demand for people wanting to speak in the debate and I | :39:53. | :39:56. | |
know there are conflicting committee is going on in other parts of the | :39:57. | :40:01. | |
House which is going to give some problems for people to speak in this | :40:02. | :40:06. | |
debate. Also to put on record my thanks as chairman of the all-party | :40:07. | :40:11. | |
and to group for the Deonarine -- for the genuine cross-party support | :40:12. | :40:18. | |
I have received from members of all parties. It is commendable the House | :40:19. | :40:22. | |
should work in this way and it is nice to record that the group, the | :40:23. | :40:31. | |
all-party group on autism, has one of the largest memberships. In 2015, | :40:32. | :40:35. | |
the National Autistic Society carried out a you got pole and found | :40:36. | :40:41. | |
that over 99.5% of the people in the UK had heard of autism. That means | :40:42. | :40:45. | |
that more or less we are all aware of autism which is a jolly good | :40:46. | :40:50. | |
thing. But just 16% of autistic people and their families, who the | :40:51. | :40:55. | |
National Autistic Society spoke to as part of their research, said that | :40:56. | :41:00. | |
the public had a meaningful understanding of autism. Despite all | :41:01. | :41:05. | |
this progress, there remains this enormous golf between awareness and | :41:06. | :41:11. | |
understanding. The key point here is that more understanding may seem | :41:12. | :41:13. | |
like a soft issue that everyone across the House can get by without | :41:14. | :41:18. | |
that much thought, but this issue goes to the core of what people with | :41:19. | :41:23. | |
families who live with autism everyday have to deal with. I give | :41:24. | :41:26. | |
way to the right honourable lady. I congratulate her on all the work | :41:27. | :41:37. | |
she has done on this crucial subject and she mentioned the National | :41:38. | :41:41. | |
autistic Society, please go to them as well for their wonderful work. | :41:42. | :41:46. | |
Would you agree that stigma is still something holding back in the | :41:47. | :41:50. | |
general public and in institutions and in educational institutions | :41:51. | :41:53. | |
amongst so many employers, the stigma around autism still holds us | :41:54. | :42:01. | |
all back as a society? That's true to a greater or lesser extent but I | :42:02. | :42:04. | |
would also want to balance it that in some areas, people on the | :42:05. | :42:10. | |
autistic spectrum are welcomed into the world of work, whether it is at | :42:11. | :42:16. | |
organisations that can take advantage of people from the | :42:17. | :42:22. | |
autistic spectrum and their abilities. I think she is right, | :42:23. | :42:29. | |
hence the debate. I patiently to the work she does and also the minister | :42:30. | :42:32. | |
who met some constituents of mine this week although they don't wish | :42:33. | :42:36. | |
to be named in public. Does she agree on this issue of awareness | :42:37. | :42:40. | |
that she has raised that it is also important that that awareness is in | :42:41. | :42:45. | |
our criminal justice system, too, and particularly in relation to | :42:46. | :42:50. | |
adults with autism? Sometimes it can come into contact with the criminal | :42:51. | :42:54. | |
justice system and there is an inappropriate level of understanding | :42:55. | :42:58. | |
of issues which may have led to that occurring. That is an astute | :42:59. | :43:05. | |
observation and in my speech I will come to the criminal justice system | :43:06. | :43:07. | |
because what they are hoping to do is set the scene across a range of | :43:08. | :43:11. | |
India is because there isn't a part of Government that I don't think | :43:12. | :43:15. | |
autism touches and their implications for, particularly | :43:16. | :43:19. | |
criminal justice were people with autism, I believe, are | :43:20. | :43:21. | |
disproportionately represented in many areas. For people and families | :43:22. | :43:29. | |
who live with autism every day, improving understanding is | :43:30. | :43:31. | |
fundamental to ensuring good levels of health and well-being and an | :43:32. | :43:34. | |
ability to participate in society and the implications are all too | :43:35. | :43:40. | |
real. In the same survey I was talking about, 79% of artistic | :43:41. | :43:48. | |
people feel socially isolated -- autistic and sometimes 50% of people | :43:49. | :43:54. | |
don't go out because they're worried about her public body react to the | :43:55. | :44:04. | |
family. 28% of artistic people have been asked to leave a public area. | :44:05. | :44:09. | |
To help tackle the isolation, I think many people in the House now | :44:10. | :44:15. | |
there has been a campaign launched starting with Too Much Information | :44:16. | :44:26. | |
Sentence --. I was glad to support that in Parliament. The cornerstone | :44:27. | :44:32. | |
is that short film, shot from the point of view of a child with autism | :44:33. | :44:36. | |
which tries to give you a sense of what it's like living in the | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
overwhelming world that someone with autism works in every day. Many | :44:41. | :44:45. | |
parliamentary colleagues actually joined me for the event and I was | :44:46. | :44:49. | |
glad to report, this is almost unbelievable but it is a good sign, | :44:50. | :44:53. | |
to date this video has been viewed online 50 million times but the film | :44:54. | :44:58. | |
only marks the very start of the campaign and clearly there is much | :44:59. | :45:01. | |
more that must be done to help tackle social isolation amongst the | :45:02. | :45:06. | |
nearly 80% of people on the spectrum who say they feel isolated. Over the | :45:07. | :45:16. | |
years, Government has shown huge leadership on the awareness of other | :45:17. | :45:21. | |
issues, with more than ?2.3 million spent on dementia awareness and ?20 | :45:22. | :45:27. | |
million on mental health awareness. Thank you so much! I wish it was | :45:28. | :45:40. | |
gin! Wells my honourable friend helped herself to water, which she | :45:41. | :45:44. | |
agree organisations that help people with people with Asperger's that | :45:45. | :45:49. | |
help them to socialise can play really important role in helping to | :45:50. | :45:53. | |
build the confidence of those people and making sure the have the support | :45:54. | :45:57. | |
they need to go into the working world? I'm doubly grateful to my | :45:58. | :46:01. | |
honourable friend but he's absolutely right, the achievements | :46:02. | :46:07. | |
of these programmes should be congratulated by all of us across | :46:08. | :46:12. | |
the House. I think action is also needed for the 700,000 people in the | :46:13. | :46:16. | |
UK on the autism spectrum and their families and I'm aware that the | :46:17. | :46:21. | |
Government has invested 325,000 on autism awareness work but this is a | :46:22. | :46:28. | |
drop in the ocean if our aim, as I believe it should be, that this | :46:29. | :46:32. | |
generation of autistic children goes up in the world that understands | :46:33. | :46:36. | |
them. I would like to pay tribute to the Minister on the front bench | :46:37. | :46:38. | |
because he has honestly attended every autism meeting and function | :46:39. | :46:44. | |
that I have asked him to 90 shares a great deal of understanding in this | :46:45. | :46:50. | |
area so I am looking for two... -- foreword to a meaningful response | :46:51. | :46:54. | |
from him. More leadership is needed from Government and I hope... Give | :46:55. | :47:02. | |
way. I'm grateful to the honourable lady and work she does on this | :47:03. | :47:08. | |
subject. Does she agree with me only 15% of adults suffering from autism | :47:09. | :47:14. | |
and then employment and that is worrying? And she think it should be | :47:15. | :47:20. | |
right that Government should support organisations for autism to help the | :47:21. | :47:24. | |
transition that could be crucial for so many? I think she is absolutely | :47:25. | :47:30. | |
right and I will mention some organisations at the end but | :47:31. | :47:37. | |
Ambition For Autism is one of many that are trying to help people with | :47:38. | :47:40. | |
autism into employment because it is a very important part so I will | :47:41. | :47:46. | |
mention it later. Holding on the intervention from the honourable | :47:47. | :47:49. | |
gentleman on the criminal justice system, I recently visited Her | :47:50. | :47:53. | |
Majesty's Young offenders Institute in Feltham receiver myself | :47:54. | :48:03. | |
first-hand -- to see for myself first-hand how adjustments can help | :48:04. | :48:06. | |
someone on the spectrum. The present recently went to accreditation and | :48:07. | :48:11. | |
the prison staff's enthusiasm to helping the young people in their | :48:12. | :48:13. | |
charge is admirable and really wonderful to see. I really hope that | :48:14. | :48:22. | |
members of the APPG are going to come and see what has been done. | :48:23. | :48:29. | |
Autism can be dramatic but without specific adjustments and will be | :48:30. | :48:32. | |
much harder for them to re-engage in their abilities -- rehabilitation. | :48:33. | :48:43. | |
Producing posters to help overstimulation I just mull things | :48:44. | :48:49. | |
that can do a great deal to help autistic prisoners. I would like to | :48:50. | :48:53. | |
put it into the Minister for prisons who wrote to every single prison in | :48:54. | :48:56. | |
this country asking them to undertake autism accreditation. | :48:57. | :49:01. | |
Currently over 20 have been back in touch with the NAS and four more are | :49:02. | :49:10. | |
going through the process. Its first king of Government leadership we | :49:11. | :49:13. | |
want. We want this kind of leadership sustained and when I ask | :49:14. | :49:20. | |
Government to do more for awareness of autism, it is this kind of | :49:21. | :49:24. | |
response I expected get. More to be done on the criminal justice system, | :49:25. | :49:29. | |
particularly in the courts. Following the example of Feltham, I | :49:30. | :49:36. | |
think the public should do more to make sure its buildings are | :49:37. | :49:40. | |
accessible to autistic people so their families can be confident in | :49:41. | :49:43. | |
visiting public buildings and using public services in the same way as | :49:44. | :49:47. | |
everyone else. I was really pleased to be for example over the weekend | :49:48. | :49:56. | |
that Asda is piloting a quiet hour in Manchester where they will turn | :49:57. | :50:00. | |
off the music and screens to create a shopping experience for those with | :50:01. | :50:05. | |
autism that is more comfortable. That is to be commended. It would be | :50:06. | :50:09. | |
remiss of me not to mention that Parliament is working under the | :50:10. | :50:12. | |
leadership of the Speaker to want an autism access a word and to make | :50:13. | :50:17. | |
sure that autistic visitors in our place of work feel confident they | :50:18. | :50:20. | |
will be understood and treated well -- artistic award. I hope the | :50:21. | :50:28. | |
Minister will meet with me again and members of the APPG to discuss how | :50:29. | :50:35. | |
together we can build on the early successes of the Too Much | :50:36. | :50:39. | |
Information campaign and ensure that all public buildings will become | :50:40. | :50:41. | |
accessible to people on the spectrum. On of the biggest issues | :50:42. | :50:53. | |
is the time it takes to get an autism diagnosis in the first place. | :50:54. | :50:59. | |
Recent research suggests more than two years is what adults are having | :51:00. | :51:03. | |
to wait for a diagnosis and four children the figure stands at 3.6 | :51:04. | :51:09. | |
years. An autism diagnosis can be life changing and can explain use of | :51:10. | :51:13. | |
fuelling different and help unlock professional advice and support and | :51:14. | :51:17. | |
Government guidelines say a diagnosis shouldn't be a barrier to | :51:18. | :51:23. | |
getting the right support in place but 15% of people on the spectrum | :51:24. | :51:28. | |
have told the NAS that a diagnosis directly led to getting new or more | :51:29. | :51:33. | |
support and how can the late to support the identified without | :51:34. | :51:39. | |
clarity on a diagnosis? It is fabulous to be having this debate | :51:40. | :51:42. | |
here today. Can I back up on this point about the delay for diagnosis? | :51:43. | :51:48. | |
I've spoken to many families in my constituency waiting for months for | :51:49. | :51:51. | |
a diagnosis for a child on a child could and should be having help with | :51:52. | :51:57. | |
the enormous difficulties, not years being wasted, yet you can't even get | :51:58. | :52:01. | |
the data from the county council of the NHS about diagnosis and not only | :52:02. | :52:06. | |
are there delays but also a lack of transparency about the waiting times | :52:07. | :52:11. | |
for diagnosis. It is clear that despite the best intentions of | :52:12. | :52:14. | |
Government, getting that diagnosis is still crucial. Give way. I will | :52:15. | :52:24. | |
for the last time. Can I join in and tribute to her for the work she has | :52:25. | :52:30. | |
done? It is an incredibly important subject. I don't know whether she | :52:31. | :52:35. | |
sought an in-depth report in the Economist but it reports on a | :52:36. | :52:38. | |
Swedish study which found that the cost of lifelong care for someone | :52:39. | :52:43. | |
with autism could be cut by two thirds with early diagnosis and | :52:44. | :52:47. | |
treatment so the moral case at economic case is overwhelming for | :52:48. | :52:54. | |
doing this. I think NHS England should collect and publish and | :52:55. | :52:58. | |
monitor key information on how long people are waiting for diagnosis and | :52:59. | :53:02. | |
how many people are known to their GP to have autism and they should | :53:03. | :53:05. | |
ensure that waiting time standards on mental health currently in | :53:06. | :53:09. | |
development reflect national guidance that no one waits longer | :53:10. | :53:14. | |
than three months after being referred for diagnosis. I think the | :53:15. | :53:18. | |
Government must share this commitment and ensure that NHS | :53:19. | :53:21. | |
England meets its aims because timely access to autism diagnosis | :53:22. | :53:25. | |
should be written into the Government's mandate on NHS England. | :53:26. | :53:29. | |
I want to touch on autism and mortality. A report highlighted | :53:30. | :53:33. | |
distressing findings from Sweden. The research found that autistic | :53:34. | :53:37. | |
people taken as a population have a lower life expectancy than the | :53:38. | :53:41. | |
overall average. The research from Sweden shows that autistic people | :53:42. | :53:46. | |
and at risk of dying younger from almost every cause of death but on | :53:47. | :53:49. | |
average this was 18 years earlier than the general population. For | :53:50. | :54:00. | |
artistic people with a learning to -- disability it is even larger. | :54:01. | :54:05. | |
They are dying 30 years before their time on average. People who have a | :54:06. | :54:08. | |
learning disability are more likely to die a live from epilepsy and | :54:09. | :54:14. | |
those without a learning disability are at a greater risk of suicide. It | :54:15. | :54:19. | |
is worth remembering the Swedish health care system is different to | :54:20. | :54:22. | |
ours but given the seriousness of this research, it is vital to | :54:23. | :54:26. | |
understand this is also the case in the UK and in so that we understand | :54:27. | :54:30. | |
the reasons. The report calls for this to be investigated as a matter | :54:31. | :54:34. | |
of urgency and I urge the Government to keep this call. I would also like | :54:35. | :54:40. | |
to make some brief comments about the Department of Health endorsed | :54:41. | :54:46. | |
autism hospital passport. It is to help people on the autism spectrum | :54:47. | :54:51. | |
to communicate their needs to doctors and nurses. It was greeted | :54:52. | :54:57. | |
why Baroness Browning in collaboration with the NHS. When it | :54:58. | :55:01. | |
comes to health care, it enables people on the spectrum and their | :55:02. | :55:05. | |
families to have a much better experience of their interaction with | :55:06. | :55:08. | |
the health service and gain better, more timely, more fitting health | :55:09. | :55:12. | |
care at the right time and in the right place. Again, I now want to | :55:13. | :55:18. | |
turn to education because they just want to touch on the various areas | :55:19. | :55:21. | |
in those opening speech that I hope other members will pick up on. Where | :55:22. | :55:26. | |
we have the special schools on autism, for instance the NHS is | :55:27. | :55:29. | |
about to open a new one in Epping Forest supported by the Anderson | :55:30. | :55:36. | |
foundation, we have no fears about the ability of the teachers to | :55:37. | :55:41. | |
understand autism but the training they receive on autism has to be | :55:42. | :55:46. | |
looked at carefully. Only 60% of children who responded to a survey | :55:47. | :55:49. | |
said the single factor that makes school better for them was that if | :55:50. | :55:54. | |
teachers understood autism and teachers agree that they want this | :55:55. | :56:00. | |
training, a survey conducted in 2013 found that 60% of teachers believe | :56:01. | :56:05. | |
they did not have enough training in autism and work is going on to | :56:06. | :56:10. | |
create core content for teacher training courses but we do need to | :56:11. | :56:14. | |
make sure that no teacher enters the classroom without the tools they | :56:15. | :56:19. | |
need to support those in their charge. One of the interventions | :56:20. | :56:25. | |
touched on employment and I want to turn to what Jordan on the spectrum | :56:26. | :56:29. | |
want after they leave education. They want the same things as we all | :56:30. | :56:36. | |
want out of life, stable, secure, fulfilling opportunities that allow | :56:37. | :56:39. | |
them the same opportunities to lead independent lives that we have. | :56:40. | :56:43. | |
However, currently too few people on the spectrum enjoy the opportunity | :56:44. | :56:48. | |
to find a job to help maintain that independence. The Government has | :56:49. | :56:51. | |
pledged to have the disability employment gap which has welcomed on | :56:52. | :56:55. | |
all sides of the House and we await the Government's soon-to-be | :56:56. | :56:58. | |
published paper and a secular state for the Department of Work and | :56:59. | :57:01. | |
Pensions's recent addition is that this is a key priority. | :57:02. | :57:06. | |
Research by Scope has showed that disability employment has remained | :57:07. | :57:13. | |
static in the last year, on the Government cannot rely on the | :57:14. | :57:17. | |
improving economy to fix this issue, and more will need to be done to fix | :57:18. | :57:21. | |
this gap. The autism employment gap is even worse. The latest data | :57:22. | :57:28. | |
indicates 15% of autistic adults are in full-time paid work, and 26% of | :57:29. | :57:34. | |
graduates on the autism spectrum are unemployed, by far the highest of | :57:35. | :57:39. | |
any disability group. The Government 's mainstream employment schedules | :57:40. | :57:48. | |
do not fit the long-term needs of people with the autistic spectrum. | :57:49. | :57:55. | |
Research shows them to be successful, for example, research | :57:56. | :57:58. | |
into one specialist support scheme is found that 70% of adults find | :57:59. | :58:01. | |
work when supported by autism professionals. So the All Party | :58:02. | :58:06. | |
Parliamentary Group on Iran is to return to this work later this year, | :58:07. | :58:09. | |
but in the meantime, I have several questions. Will the Government's | :58:10. | :58:15. | |
disability white paper include proposals for ensuring people can | :58:16. | :58:19. | |
access special support, in seeking to halve the disability employment | :58:20. | :58:23. | |
gap will the Minister report on progress by condition, so low | :58:24. | :58:26. | |
employment rates are people with conditions such as autism can be | :58:27. | :58:30. | |
specifically tackled. And crucially, will the Minister in sure that the | :58:31. | :58:33. | |
new records, whether someone on the programme is on the autism spectrum, | :58:34. | :58:42. | |
are recorded? It is difficult to address all the areas today, and I | :58:43. | :58:45. | |
haven't touched on social care, mental health, or benefits. But I | :58:46. | :58:50. | |
know there are many colleagues that want to speak, and I really do not | :58:51. | :58:55. | |
want to take up too much more time. In summing up, I would like to | :58:56. | :58:58. | |
return to the public awareness of the condition. Survey after survey | :58:59. | :59:02. | |
of people on the spectrum tell us that better understanding of the | :59:03. | :59:05. | |
condition amongst both the public and professionals would be the one | :59:06. | :59:08. | |
thing that would help them feel more secure and allow them to have | :59:09. | :59:13. | |
fulfilling lives. People on the spectrum are reasonable. They don't | :59:14. | :59:15. | |
expect an ordinary member of the public with no knowledge of the | :59:16. | :59:20. | |
condition to be aware of the technic details about the diagnostic | :59:21. | :59:23. | |
criteria, but they feel that a little more understanding, | :59:24. | :59:25. | |
compassion and awareness would make all the difference to their lives. | :59:26. | :59:31. | |
If you see a I having a meltdown in a supermarket, or an adult acting a | :59:32. | :59:35. | |
bit differently on the train, stop and think for a moment. They may be | :59:36. | :59:40. | |
autistic and need your kindness, not your judgment. And before I | :59:41. | :59:46. | |
conclude, I just want to thank all the organisations who have been | :59:47. | :59:49. | |
involved in contributing to the knowledge of members in this House | :59:50. | :59:52. | |
today, particularly those charities and groups with whom we work | :59:53. | :59:56. | |
closely. The National Autistic Society who provide the secretary at | :59:57. | :00:04. | |
the APB BG, the children's services development group and the many | :00:05. | :00:06. | |
individuals that have got in touch with me and with all of you in the | :00:07. | :00:12. | |
past week. I hope together we can improve the lives of those with | :00:13. | :00:15. | |
autism, and make some real progress in this area. The question is as on | :00:16. | :00:21. | |
the order paper, we will start with a speech limit of six minutes and | :00:22. | :00:27. | |
see how we get on. Madame Deputy Speaker, anticipating today's debate | :00:28. | :00:32. | |
and in his customary eloquent way, the guardian columnist John Harris | :00:33. | :00:34. | |
wrote a summation of some of the issues around autism just last | :00:35. | :00:37. | |
Saturday, and he ended his peace with these words. Our culture still | :00:38. | :00:42. | |
too often catches autism in terms of pity or fear, as in centrally | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
Victorian sensibility lingers on, but we are moving towards a new | :00:47. | :00:49. | |
world in which autistic the Bill and their families advocate for | :00:50. | :00:52. | |
themselves. For them, the current noise about autism highlights an | :00:53. | :00:55. | |
inevitable phase of any struggle against ignorance. The point at | :00:56. | :00:59. | |
which you know you have, long way but still have light years to go. | :01:00. | :01:05. | |
When we consider the debate in legislation in this House, we too | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
have come a long way, and a considerable part of this is the | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
work of the loyal member for Cheshire and Amersham. I thought I | :01:13. | :01:20. | |
would focus on a couple of areas in mice short contribution. First on | :01:21. | :01:30. | |
diagnosis delayed, is something we all have countless example is of. | :01:31. | :01:33. | |
The children, as we have heard, average diagnosis now stands at some | :01:34. | :01:38. | |
three and a half years. In my experience, talking to parents and | :01:39. | :01:44. | |
experts, this is partly down to insufficient training, cost | :01:45. | :01:47. | |
pressures within the system, and the reality that the parents, not | :01:48. | :01:54. | |
knowing where to turn, it is not known how to access the services. | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
People are dealing with a system of immense complexity buckling under | :02:00. | :02:02. | |
the cuts with no single point of contact marked autism within the | :02:03. | :02:07. | |
system. For many it is simply bewildering and very often very | :02:08. | :02:10. | |
scary, and finally I was going to highlight some of the amazing people | :02:11. | :02:13. | |
and campaign work done at local level, people such as my constituent | :02:14. | :02:20. | |
Fae how who only last week led a large demonstration demanding better | :02:21. | :02:22. | |
services support for autistic people and their families. I also wanted to | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
make a couple of points regarding the nature of research and where | :02:28. | :02:31. | |
this might develop, both to help our overall awareness but most | :02:32. | :02:33. | |
importantly help autistic citizens and their families. Recent figures | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
suggest 1% of population has an autistic spectrum condition, a 20 | :02:38. | :02:42. | |
fold increase in the 50 years since the first study. Given this need, we | :02:43. | :02:50. | |
need more and better research, and we can detect, especially in the US, | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
a dramatic expansion in autism research, for example the 2006 | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
combating autism act authorised millions of dollars for autism | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
research over a five-year period to develop screening, early diagnosis | :03:04. | :03:06. | |
and children's intervention strategies, and it has been | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
estimated that in 2010 alone, autism research in the US exceeded some 400 | :03:11. | :03:17. | |
million US dollars. Here in the UK, research suggests that public and | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
private funding organisations in vests on ?21 million into autism | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
research between 2007 and 2011, amounting to a significant increase, | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
but the question is whether this research is being focused on the | :03:32. | :03:34. | |
correct issues, and does it tally with the needs of autistic people | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
and their families. I refer to an article in autism entitled what | :03:39. | :03:44. | |
should autism research focus on? And they suggested that research | :03:45. | :03:46. | |
activities should be broadened to reflect the priorities of the UK | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
autism community, focusing in particular on research that helps | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
people live with autism. It would appear obvious that research should | :03:55. | :03:57. | |
maximise its impact on the life experiences of those affected, are | :03:58. | :04:03. | |
constituents, so why might this apparently self-evident objective | :04:04. | :04:06. | |
not be the case? When we look at the debate about the research, there | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
appears to be a tension between projects that focus on the basic | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
science, cognitive systems, genetics and risk factors, and on the other | :04:15. | :04:22. | |
hand, research that focuses on the understanding and promotion of how | :04:23. | :04:24. | |
families function of the services the families need. Evidence suggests | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
that in the US they realise this and achieve a growing diversity of | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
research funding to the direct benefit of autistic citizens and | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
their families. In contrast, evidenced here suggest the | :04:40. | :04:41. | |
diversification of funding has not occurred here in the UK. This | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
suggests both in terms of numbers project and total research grant, | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
but project in the areas of biology, brain and cognition outstripped all | :04:51. | :04:53. | |
other areas of autism research by a vast margin. The effect is very | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
little research funding directed into identifying effective services | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
for autistic people and their families, on services, treatments, | :05:04. | :05:07. | |
intervention and education. This is not just an academic issue, it | :05:08. | :05:10. | |
relates directly to all of the questions discussed this afternoon | :05:11. | :05:13. | |
regarding autism awareness. Research at the centre of research in | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
autistic education suggest the families of autistic people do | :05:19. | :05:21. | |
indeed value the research into the underlying causes of autism, but | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
need a more balanced distribution that redirect attention onto their | :05:27. | :05:33. | |
daily lives, needs and services. Can I congratulate the honourable member | :05:34. | :05:36. | |
for Cheshire and Amersham on achieving this debate. I had a | :05:37. | :05:45. | |
secondary school for young people with autism in my constituency, and | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
their governing body has written to me, and I wonder if my honourable | :05:51. | :05:56. | |
friend has the same concerns, that with the Government consulting on | :05:57. | :05:58. | |
changes to the national school funding formula, including the | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
formula for high needs. They are worried there will be a levelling | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
down of fun that will be drawn away from these schools which would be | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
very damaging. That is precisely what some of us were going to | :06:13. | :06:15. | |
mention in the debate that was cancelled on Monday evening around | :06:16. | :06:17. | |
pressures on the systems regarding special-needs children. This takes | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
us back to the point I was going to raise regarding problems with | :06:23. | :06:25. | |
diagnosis, entry point into the system, the cuts being experienced. | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
These are all linked to the research based around autism in terms of | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
effective public will see making. It links to commissioning of services, | :06:35. | :06:37. | |
decision making a front-line staff as well as dilemmas facing autistic | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
people and their families. The evidence base that exists for | :06:42. | :06:43. | |
decisions around autism and public service provision. I look forward to | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
a reorientation in the research priorities around autism, to balance | :06:49. | :06:52. | |
out research funding of projects like we appear to have achieved in | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
the US, to balance out the scientific research with | :06:57. | :06:58. | |
understanding that leads to the most effective support offered to our | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
autistic citizens and their families, as well as greater | :07:03. | :07:04. | |
coordination around autistic research which they appear to have | :07:05. | :07:07. | |
again achieved through strategic oversight in the US. And finally, in | :07:08. | :07:11. | |
the involvement of autistic people and their families in the strategic | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
decisions. There are some basic issues of democracy involved in this | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
debate. To conclude, it is great we are having this debate today, | :07:21. | :07:23. | |
another sign of progress, but to return to the words of my friend | :07:24. | :07:26. | |
John Harris, whose family have tried to navigate this system for many | :07:27. | :07:29. | |
years, we appear to be at the point which we know we have come a long | :07:30. | :07:32. | |
way, but still have light years to go. Thank you very much. I would | :07:33. | :07:39. | |
like to congratulate my right honourable friend from Amersham and | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
Cheshire for securing this debate, because it is a very important bait, | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
and I only relative important it was just before the last election when I | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
met a group of parents in my constituency who were talking about | :07:55. | :07:57. | |
the problems that they had had. Before that I had obviously met | :07:58. | :08:00. | |
people with autism, but I hadn't understood the pressures that | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
parents and families are put under by the diagnosis or even not having | :08:06. | :08:14. | |
the diagnosis of their children's problems. I met people who had never | :08:15. | :08:37. | |
had a diagnosis and didn't think that they would ever have a | :08:38. | :08:39. | |
diagnosis because nobody seemed to recognise that their child had | :08:40. | :08:41. | |
autism, but it was clear that what they said that the children were not | :08:42. | :08:43. | |
suffering from a form of autism, but it had never been recognised, and | :08:44. | :08:45. | |
they were at the end of their tether and did not know where to turn to | :08:46. | :08:48. | |
next. Also it isn't just mothers that have the problem, there were a | :08:49. | :08:50. | |
lot of dads there as well, and it isn't just when they are children, | :08:51. | :08:52. | |
it is often when they become adults as well, when there is even less | :08:53. | :08:54. | |
support than there is for children. So it is whole families that are | :08:55. | :08:57. | |
affected, and it can have such a big strain that it affects the marriage | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
or the partnership of the parents, and many of those situations break | :09:02. | :09:10. | |
down when people have one, two or three children with autism, and I | :09:11. | :09:13. | |
want to focus more on local situations in Derby and Derbyshire, | :09:14. | :09:18. | |
where I feel that the system is failing the children who need a | :09:19. | :09:21. | |
diagnosis, and need the help in the schools. And I have met so many | :09:22. | :09:51. | |
people now through then, an active in the area who have autism and who | :09:52. | :10:03. | |
have children who have autism. And in fact, last year and this year | :10:04. | :10:05. | |
during National autism week, they have shown people in the area that | :10:06. | :10:07. | |
there is a problem, and to highlight National autism week, and I commend | :10:08. | :10:09. | |
them for that. Yes, of course. Interesting and powerful points are | :10:10. | :10:10. | |
being made, although she has mentioned a number of times the | :10:11. | :10:12. | |
problem that autism faces, and I am someone who has employed and had in | :10:13. | :10:14. | |
my office someone who was on the autistic spectrum. She agree with me | :10:15. | :10:16. | |
that we need to change the narrative, because people on the | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
artist expects from -- on the autistic spectrum have special | :10:21. | :10:22. | |
skills, and it is important that This is far too long when you have a | :10:23. | :12:17. | |
child having problems in school with their behaviour. They need the help | :12:18. | :12:26. | |
now. The children and families act 2014 mandate of local authorities to | :12:27. | :12:28. | |
move from special educational needs statements which outlined their | :12:29. | :12:31. | |
chance and needs and have a help that would be given to an education | :12:32. | :12:35. | |
health and care plan for each child. It also reduced the amount of time | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
children with special educational needs had to wait for an education | :12:41. | :12:46. | |
care plan from 26 weeks to 20 weeks. However, the average in Derby is 35 | :12:47. | :12:54. | |
weeks. That is after waiting a year. Derby local authority did not make | :12:55. | :12:57. | |
sufficient plans to prepare themselves for the change and have | :12:58. | :13:05. | |
been on the back foot ever since. Until February 2016, only 12% of | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
statements have become education health and care plans, which is | :13:10. | :13:12. | |
really unhelpful for families. And the gap in between the causes delays | :13:13. | :13:18. | |
in education and the development of the child and additional stress on | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
the family caring for them. Some local authorities, and I believe in | :13:24. | :13:28. | |
Derby city are now asking for schools to complete the education | :13:29. | :13:30. | |
health and care plans even though they are not meant to. And the | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
training given by Derby city to its own staff and school staff on the | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
changes in the law has been labelled by some parents as diabolical. Admin | :13:40. | :13:45. | |
staff as schools do not understand the difference between a special | :13:46. | :13:48. | |
education needs statement and education health and care plans, | :13:49. | :13:51. | |
because they often just copy and paste it. Without an EH C P, | :13:52. | :14:01. | |
autistic spectrum children are being managed by inexperienced stab at a | :14:02. | :14:10. | |
fundamental of ASD. Derby are having to employ consultants to help make | :14:11. | :14:13. | |
changes to know what they are doing a costing for times as much as the | :14:14. | :14:19. | |
usual school administrative staff. -- four times. It seems to me that | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
all local authorities claim to being short of money wasting money, except | :14:24. | :14:29. | |
if it does get its still more quickly for families and children | :14:30. | :14:31. | |
with autism, it is obviously better for them. But this money could be | :14:32. | :14:37. | |
better spent on mental health care for autistic children and their | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
families. Now, if local authorities would consistently ask the schools | :14:43. | :14:44. | |
themselves to do with the care plans, as is happening in Derby, we | :14:45. | :14:49. | |
need to ensure that schools are given the funds and training needed | :14:50. | :14:55. | |
to be able to do this. There is no obvious legal accountability if | :14:56. | :14:59. | |
deadlines are not met. Now, we need to support parents and siblings | :15:00. | :15:08. | |
affected with the children with ASD. Early diagnosis is absolutely key to | :15:09. | :15:11. | |
avoid mental health problems associated with not knowing what is | :15:12. | :15:15. | |
wrong and being able to deal with it. We need to move faster than help | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
these children and families deal with the problems that they have. | :15:20. | :15:27. | |
Brendan O horror. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Thank you to the | :15:28. | :15:31. | |
chair for indulging me to call me to this this spate -- debate. I'm | :15:32. | :15:42. | |
grateful for being called so early. Thank you to the member for | :15:43. | :15:46. | |
temp-macro for securing this very, very important debate. Autism is a | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
spectrum condition, meaning that no to autistic people display the same | :15:51. | :15:54. | |
characteristics. Some people live with autism live a relatively | :15:55. | :15:57. | |
independent lives while others at the other end of the spectrum may | :15:58. | :16:01. | |
need lifetime specialist care and support. And that demands every | :16:02. | :16:06. | |
single person living with autism is treated as an individual and that | :16:07. | :16:13. | |
society affords each individual the respect and dignity that they | :16:14. | :16:17. | |
deserve. Absolutely no doubt that we as a society in to do that. But the | :16:18. | :16:26. | |
question is, do we actually do that? I recently met with the National | :16:27. | :16:30. | |
Autistic Society at the launch of their too much information campaign. | :16:31. | :16:35. | |
A campaign designed to help people recognise autistic behaviour and to | :16:36. | :16:38. | |
better understand how they should respond to it. It is an excellent | :16:39. | :16:43. | |
report and sometimes makes sport uncomfortable reading, but I commend | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
it to all members of the House. Because contained in that report, a | :16:48. | :16:54. | |
society publishes its figures from a wide ranging survey which they have | :16:55. | :16:58. | |
commissioned looking at public attitudes to those with autism. The | :16:59. | :17:03. | |
findings suggest that we as a society have a long way to go and -- | :17:04. | :17:09. | |
in affording people living with autism the respect and dignity they | :17:10. | :17:14. | |
most certainly deserve. Although almost every single person in the | :17:15. | :17:18. | |
United Kingdom had heard of autism or were aware of it, only a fraction | :17:19. | :17:24. | |
actually recognised what it meant and there is indeed a chasm between | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
the public awareness of autism and the public understanding of autism. | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
And it is this lack of public understanding of autism that is | :17:35. | :17:38. | |
causing great distress for those living with the condition and their | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
families. My right honourable friend has given a sum of the findings, but | :17:44. | :17:49. | |
I think they are worth repeating. As 87% of parents say they have | :17:50. | :17:52. | |
experienced people stopping and staring at their children while | :17:53. | :17:58. | |
displaying autistic behaviour. 74% of parents have experienced public | :17:59. | :18:04. | |
expressions of disapproval at their children displaying autistic | :18:05. | :18:10. | |
behaviour. What is important about this survey was the National | :18:11. | :18:14. | |
Autistic Society spoke to people living with autism and what they | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
discovered, I think, was pretty depressing. 84% of people living | :18:20. | :18:25. | |
with autism feel they have been judged by the rest of society -- are | :18:26. | :18:30. | |
being judged by society as being and I quote, strange. Yes, I will give | :18:31. | :18:38. | |
way. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Would he not agree that | :18:39. | :18:43. | |
that reaction by people to those in our society with autism, but also | :18:44. | :18:47. | |
their broader family, actually then leads, as Michael Stich and said, to | :18:48. | :18:53. | |
a fear of you not going out? That then means as we know, particularly | :18:54. | :18:59. | |
with autistic children, as they transition into adults, there is a | :19:00. | :19:02. | |
social isolation for them and very often their primary carer that is | :19:03. | :19:06. | |
not adequately recognised across the board. My honourable friend is | :19:07. | :19:13. | |
correct and I will touch on that in a moment. But looking at the | :19:14. | :19:19. | |
statistics, 70% of people living with autism believe the public see | :19:20. | :19:27. | |
them as being anti-social. One third, almost one third people | :19:28. | :19:30. | |
living with autism have been asked to leave a public place because are | :19:31. | :19:37. | |
displaying behaviour is associated with their condition. And as a | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
result, as my honourable friend has just said, for in every five people | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
living with autism in the UK feels isolated from society and half of | :19:47. | :19:52. | |
people with autism do not go out for fear of how people will react to | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
their condition. As I said, Madam Deputy Speaker, it makes pretty | :19:57. | :20:00. | |
depressing reading and I think they should force us all to look at our | :20:01. | :20:03. | |
own behaviours and question what we are doing as a group and as a | :20:04. | :20:09. | |
community to our fellow citizens that makes them view social | :20:10. | :20:15. | |
isolation as being preferable to how they are currently treated by the | :20:16. | :20:20. | |
public, ourselves including. It is not all bad news, there is good news | :20:21. | :20:26. | |
within the National autistic report, the Society report and it does show | :20:27. | :20:30. | |
that their research shows they have greater knowledge and a better | :20:31. | :20:35. | |
understanding, the public will behave generally with much greater | :20:36. | :20:44. | |
empathy towards autistic people. Perhaps one of the pieces of good | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
news is that many areas of Scotland are blessed with speech and language | :20:50. | :20:52. | |
therapists who understand well at the condition and can give | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
particular support in schools for example for those with particular | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
communication challenges. I thank my honourable friend for the | :21:02. | :21:06. | |
intervention, I know he's a specialist in that area commend what | :21:07. | :21:09. | |
has been done throughout Scotland and soon I hope, throughout the UK | :21:10. | :21:18. | |
in that field. There is much to look forward to and be hopeful about. It | :21:19. | :21:21. | |
is about getting the key messages out to the public and of those key | :21:22. | :21:26. | |
messages are that people with autism may need extra time to process | :21:27. | :21:32. | |
information and respond to people. People with autism can become | :21:33. | :21:37. | |
anxious in social situations, people with autism can become anxious when | :21:38. | :21:43. | |
faced with unexpected changes and unscheduled events. People with | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
autism are also very often hypersensitive to noise, light, | :21:49. | :21:53. | |
smell or colour. And do you know what? When things get too much, | :21:54. | :21:57. | |
people with autism can sometimes have a meltdown. Deal with it. I | :21:58. | :22:04. | |
conclude, Madam Deputy Speaker, if I may, by quoting from the Scottish | :22:05. | :22:09. | |
Government's strategy for autism and the line I'd like to quote says the | :22:10. | :22:15. | |
Scottish Government's vision is that individuals under the autism | :22:16. | :22:19. | |
spectrum are respected, accepted and valued by their communities and have | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
the confidence and ease services to treat them fairly so they are best | :22:24. | :22:27. | |
able to a meaningful and satisfying lives. I think that is something on | :22:28. | :22:32. | |
which this -- this entire House can unite around. I would | :22:33. | :22:46. | |
The tireless work she has done over so many years, to start a change | :22:47. | :22:52. | |
Government rarities on autism and those of our country who are not | :22:53. | :22:57. | |
newer atypical. It has been really moving to hear comments from my | :22:58. | :23:00. | |
honourable friend from Bury St Edmunds and the honourable member | :23:01. | :23:06. | |
for Argyll and Bute to describe in detail some of the actualities of | :23:07. | :23:09. | |
families and those who suffer from autism. It was as my right | :23:10. | :23:15. | |
honourable friend's autism act was going through this House that I was | :23:16. | :23:19. | |
battling to find diagnosis from my own son at the time. It was evident | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
to me that my bright and articulate young boy was not like other boys of | :23:25. | :23:29. | |
his age. He had an extraordinary level of concentration, extremely | :23:30. | :23:32. | |
high reading skills, and could convert and length with adults in a | :23:33. | :23:36. | |
most unusual way. But he was also very anxious, fearful of noise, | :23:37. | :23:41. | |
bright lights, unable to cope with anything unexpected in his day, | :23:42. | :23:45. | |
literally the slightest change to what time we left the House and all | :23:46. | :23:49. | |
hell broke loose. And so once he started his schooling at the age of | :23:50. | :23:53. | |
three, his young life became increasingly more challenging, and | :23:54. | :23:59. | |
school life, which demands conformity, became something he | :24:00. | :24:06. | |
could not cope with. We struggled on for years because nobody seemed to | :24:07. | :24:10. | |
have any ideas, teachers just occasionally asked me to pick him up | :24:11. | :24:20. | |
early and if it got too much. They would say, could they not feed him | :24:21. | :24:22. | |
with every body else, there was a problem in the canteen. I was a man | :24:23. | :24:30. | |
who had a little boy who had so many talents, but eventually, my GP, | :24:31. | :24:32. | |
wonderful man, referred us to a child psychologist, whose failure to | :24:33. | :24:37. | |
correctly diagnosed my son is autistic was nothing short of | :24:38. | :24:47. | |
shocking. Not only did he not see what my son was suffering from, but | :24:48. | :24:53. | |
he tried to medicate him with Ritter Linford ADHD -- with Ritalin for | :24:54. | :25:06. | |
ADHD. It was only because I fought back against the medical | :25:07. | :25:09. | |
profession's failure that my son was not inappropriately drugged. It was | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
only because with huge financial support from my family that we | :25:15. | :25:16. | |
eventually found a team of paediatric doctors based at Great | :25:17. | :25:21. | |
Ormond Street Hospital in London, 350 miles from our home in | :25:22. | :25:25. | |
Northumberland. They quickly diagnosed my boy is an Asp urges | :25:26. | :25:32. | |
syndrome sufferer, we received support and were empowered to | :25:33. | :25:37. | |
challenge schools and regulations so that we could once again enjoy and | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
thrive in the learning environment. I have to say there have been two or | :25:43. | :25:50. | |
three teachers in our lives for whom medals are not adequate, who have | :25:51. | :25:53. | |
learned for themselves what it means to be an autistic little boy, and | :25:54. | :26:00. | |
you have other children come through the system afterwards. The pressures | :26:01. | :26:10. | |
which normal life puts on our autistic children should not be | :26:11. | :26:14. | |
underestimated. No right-thinking person would ask a child with a | :26:15. | :26:17. | |
broken leg to run up the stairs, but the invisibility of autism means | :26:18. | :26:21. | |
that these children are asked to do things which that hypersensitivity | :26:22. | :26:28. | |
or gaps in your neurological sensitivity means too much for them. | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
Isn't it true that your son was lucky because he had a mother who | :26:33. | :26:37. | |
was prepared to fight, and the ability to fight? There are many | :26:38. | :26:41. | |
parents like that who will fight for their children, as most parents want | :26:42. | :26:45. | |
to do. But there are some who do not have the ability to do that all the | :26:46. | :26:49. | |
confidence to do that, and they are the ones that are really being let | :26:50. | :26:59. | |
down by the system. That is part of the reason why I am here, I decided | :27:00. | :27:03. | |
that advocacy was needed for those who are not able to access the | :27:04. | :27:09. | |
system, how to fight back or are too honest and quiet folk trying to get | :27:10. | :27:14. | |
on with their day, muddling on with difficult job situations, convex | :27:15. | :27:16. | |
family environments, and it is just too hard to fight what seems to be | :27:17. | :27:20. | |
an implacable system in so many parts of our country. The reality is | :27:21. | :27:28. | |
that my right honourable friend's act has brought us on from those | :27:29. | :27:32. | |
battles I was having, and the general population is becoming aware | :27:33. | :27:36. | |
slowly of this invisible disability. The challenge is that it is | :27:37. | :27:38. | |
invisible until it becomes visible through a crisis. Many of our great | :27:39. | :27:43. | |
artists and scientists have been on the spectrum, men and women who see | :27:44. | :27:47. | |
the world differently from those of us who are near | :27:48. | :28:00. | |
-- neuro-typical, as my son calls me. He says it as an insult! The | :28:01. | :28:08. | |
great Alan Turing's genius brought us the computer, possibly the | :28:09. | :28:14. | |
greatest leap since the steam engine. He was shunned and | :28:15. | :28:17. | |
misunderstood throughout his life. The damage society inflicted on him | :28:18. | :28:23. | |
and a blatant disregard for his differencing character highlights | :28:24. | :28:26. | |
what we must reverse 70 years on to ensure that knows child on the | :28:27. | :28:29. | |
autistic spectrum is lost to us or our nation. Small changes to the | :28:30. | :28:33. | |
school environment, support for families bringing up autistic | :28:34. | :28:37. | |
children with day-to-day tasks that can reduce the stress is on them | :28:38. | :28:41. | |
only to positive and thriving outcomes for these wonderful members | :28:42. | :28:44. | |
of our communities, but most importantly, we had team of | :28:45. | :28:48. | |
paediatric experts across every part of our country who can diagnose our | :28:49. | :28:53. | |
children early on, and councillors in schools who are trained and | :28:54. | :28:56. | |
flexible in supporting these children to fulfilling lives. I | :28:57. | :29:00. | |
recently met with a family in my constituency with three boys, two | :29:01. | :29:05. | |
for our diagnosed. I have in my county council are passionate | :29:06. | :29:11. | |
advocate for all our special needs children, and it is very difficult | :29:12. | :29:15. | |
for him to meet the needs of each and every autistic child, there is | :29:16. | :29:19. | |
not enough flexibility for him to provide preventative and creative | :29:20. | :29:22. | |
solutions for individual families which will provide practical | :29:23. | :29:26. | |
support. If he can reduce the day-to-day pressures for parents | :29:27. | :29:29. | |
with low-cost, early interventions, we will increase the chances of | :29:30. | :29:33. | |
these families staying together. There are obvious long-term value | :29:34. | :29:36. | |
for money arguments and investing in these families early on to stop | :29:37. | :29:40. | |
long-term costs of the state of family breakdown of we fail these | :29:41. | :29:44. | |
children and their families early. I call on our Government to encourage | :29:45. | :29:48. | |
these families to be creative and forward-thinking in their support | :29:49. | :29:52. | |
for our autistic children, that firstly by getting the speedy | :29:53. | :29:57. | |
diagnosis that support can follow. It is a pleasure to follow that | :29:58. | :30:01. | |
speech by the honourable lady, and I would like to add my congratulations | :30:02. | :30:08. | |
to the right and buffer Chesham and Amersham -- The right honourable | :30:09. | :30:13. | |
member. We have touched upon awareness and understanding, and I | :30:14. | :30:16. | |
would like to focus my remarks on something that hasn't been | :30:17. | :30:21. | |
mentioned, and that is acceptance. As honourable members have noted, | :30:22. | :30:24. | |
the public awareness about autism has grown dramatically in recent | :30:25. | :30:28. | |
years, aided by a proliferation of books, media articles and albeit not | :30:29. | :30:32. | |
always accurate portrayals of people with autism on television and in | :30:33. | :30:38. | |
film. This explosion of information about autism spectrum disorders and | :30:39. | :30:43. | |
the Corporation of individuals with autism into everyday culture has | :30:44. | :30:46. | |
helped familiarise people with the condition, and it is right that we | :30:47. | :30:51. | |
celebrate that achievement. Essential as it is, awareness alone | :30:52. | :30:53. | |
has not necessarily lead to a greater understanding of ASD or | :30:54. | :30:59. | |
prevented the perpetuation of stereotypes and cliches as even a | :31:00. | :31:04. | |
cursory Google search will attest. Awareness alone has not kept people | :31:05. | :31:08. | |
with autism from being abused, has not helped them find jobs or | :31:09. | :31:11. | |
supported them to live independently. We cannot overcome | :31:12. | :31:19. | |
ignorance and help those with autism live independent lives by increasing | :31:20. | :31:23. | |
awareness alone. I am lucky enough to have in my constituency a | :31:24. | :31:26. | |
fantastic organisation called Greenwich Parent Voice. It is a | :31:27. | :31:32. | |
group of exceptional parents, some of whom are in the calorie today, | :31:33. | :31:37. | |
who came together to support each other and fight for their children, | :31:38. | :31:39. | |
each of whom have special disabilities. They have not only | :31:40. | :31:45. | |
helped deepen my understanding of ASD and the challenge faced by those | :31:46. | :31:51. | |
with autism and their parents, but have over the course of many | :31:52. | :31:54. | |
meetings made clear to me that what is really required is acceptance of | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
autism. Anyone who has sat and listened to parents or carers of | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
children with autism, or adults with autism for that matter even a short | :32:04. | :32:06. | |
time will know that the system that we have in place at the moment, | :32:07. | :32:09. | |
despite some recent improvements, still does not work. Whether it is | :32:10. | :32:14. | |
problems in transferring from statements to health and care plans, | :32:15. | :32:17. | |
the difficulties trying to secure specialist support in the care | :32:18. | :32:21. | |
system, or the strain of supporting children with autism into adult | :32:22. | :32:26. | |
hood, the system... I am happy to give way. He and others have been | :32:27. | :32:33. | |
making very powerful speeches, but does he agree with me that we need | :32:34. | :32:38. | |
also to translate that awareness into some very hard practical action | :32:39. | :32:42. | |
in terms of service delivery, whether it is about education or | :32:43. | :32:45. | |
housing, and he like other member is of Parliament here I'm sure have | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
been dealing with parents of autistic children forced to share | :32:50. | :32:56. | |
rooms, live in tower blocks, because housing policy does not reflect the | :32:57. | :33:00. | |
needs of autistic children. So we do actually need to build on greater | :33:01. | :33:04. | |
awareness, but also resource that into some practical action. I thank | :33:05. | :33:09. | |
my honourable friend about intervention, she makes a very good | :33:10. | :33:13. | |
point. I have dealt with allocations cases myself, and though does need | :33:14. | :33:17. | |
to be some detailed policies put in place that are based on the | :33:18. | :33:20. | |
recognition of the particular needs of autistic children and their | :33:21. | :33:23. | |
families, because it does cause those families unimaginable stress | :33:24. | :33:28. | |
and anxiety to navigate the system as it stands. Those with sharp | :33:29. | :33:34. | |
elbows necessarily navigate that system, but they do so at great | :33:35. | :33:38. | |
personal cost, and not everyone, as the honourable lady opposite said, | :33:39. | :33:42. | |
has the ability to do that. The range of challenges faced by those | :33:43. | :33:46. | |
with autism and their families is vast, and this isn't the debate to | :33:47. | :33:51. | |
delve into any of those in detail in particular, but my sense is that our | :33:52. | :33:54. | |
collective readiness to do something about the would be stronger if we | :33:55. | :33:58. | |
were not only aware of autism and understood it, but if we were more | :33:59. | :34:02. | |
accepting of it as a society. I suspect if we were more success in | :34:03. | :34:09. | |
-- accepting, we would look at the lack of suitable childcare provision | :34:10. | :34:12. | |
of autistic children, the fact that too many schools are still not | :34:13. | :34:16. | |
autistic friendly and too many children are not getting the support | :34:17. | :34:19. | |
they require. We would be compelled to more urgently address the | :34:20. | :34:24. | |
prevalence of mental health conditions, and the isolation young | :34:25. | :34:27. | |
people with autism to frequently face in school. We would be | :34:28. | :34:31. | |
compelled to address the cliff edge in support that still faces autistic | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
people into many parts of the country as they transition to adult | :34:37. | :34:41. | |
hood, and we would be compelled to address the huge challenges that | :34:42. | :34:46. | |
still face autistic adults in terms of diagnosis, employment and | :34:47. | :34:50. | |
housing. I have no doubt that over time, these challenges will be | :34:51. | :34:53. | |
overcome, not least because more and more people with autism and their | :34:54. | :34:59. | |
families, like those who have helped establish Greenwich Parent Voice in | :35:00. | :35:03. | |
my constituency, are advocating more strongly for themselves, but I | :35:04. | :35:07. | |
believe that each of us in this chamber and in the wider country can | :35:08. | :35:09. | |
hasten the process by working towards a society where most of a | :35:10. | :35:13. | |
survey has said are not only aware of autism and understand it, but | :35:14. | :35:18. | |
celebrate them and their contributions, not only as family | :35:19. | :35:21. | |
members and friends, but as classmates, colleagues and members | :35:22. | :35:28. | |
of our communities. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I also | :35:29. | :35:31. | |
congratulate my right honourable friend the Chesham and Amersham not | :35:32. | :35:36. | |
only on securing this debate but securing the excellent worksheet | :35:37. | :35:38. | |
does is chairman of the all-party group, and also for her wonderful | :35:39. | :35:43. | |
work piloting the autism act through this House, which was a | :35:44. | :35:48. | |
ground-breaking piece of legislation, and which has done a | :35:49. | :35:51. | |
tremendous amount to improve the lot of adults with autism in England. I | :35:52. | :35:59. | |
must say in passing it is a matter of concern to me that that | :36:00. | :36:02. | |
legislation has not been followed in Wales, but the good news is that all | :36:03. | :36:05. | |
parties in the current Welsh Assembly elections apart from the | :36:06. | :36:08. | |
Labour Party sadly have committed to a Welsh autism Bill, and it is hoped | :36:09. | :36:14. | |
that the Welsh Labour Party will work with their colleagues. | :36:15. | :36:18. | |
Notwithstanding the passing of the act in 2009, there is still much | :36:19. | :36:23. | |
work to be done to ensure that people with autism and their | :36:24. | :36:26. | |
families receive the support that they need, but also crucially that | :36:27. | :36:31. | |
understanding of the condition continues to develop. We must | :36:32. | :36:35. | |
remember that autism is a condition was not formally recognised until | :36:36. | :36:41. | |
the late 1940s, and serious research on it didn't begin in earnest until | :36:42. | :36:48. | |
the 1960s. So in 1970, an American study concluded that one child in | :36:49. | :36:55. | |
14,000 was autistic. More recent US studies have shown that one child in | :36:56. | :37:02. | |
68 has some form of autism. And interestingly, a very recent study | :37:03. | :37:12. | |
in Korea, a study of school tranche of the population, concluded that | :37:13. | :37:16. | |
one child in 38 between the age of seven and 12 had some degree of | :37:17. | :37:20. | |
autism. It is therefore becoming increasingly clear that this is a | :37:21. | :37:23. | |
condition that is far more prevalent than any of us expected. My right | :37:24. | :37:30. | |
honourable friend mentioned that in the United Kingdom, estimates are | :37:31. | :37:38. | |
that some 700,000 people are affected by autism, approximately 1% | :37:39. | :37:42. | |
of the population, and this has an economic as well as human cost. A | :37:43. | :37:48. | |
study by the LSE in 2014 estimated the cost of autism to the British | :37:49. | :37:53. | |
economy at approximately ?32.1 billion. Put that into perspective, | :37:54. | :37:59. | |
estimates of the cost of cancer are around ?12 billion per annum, heart | :38:00. | :38:03. | |
disease ?8 billion, stroke ?5 billion, so the economic cost of | :38:04. | :38:10. | |
autism is a very significant indeed. And if we had greater awareness and | :38:11. | :38:12. | |
more understanding of the condition, more of us wrap might realise as | :38:13. | :38:16. | |
other honourable members have pointed out that people with autism | :38:17. | :38:19. | |
are a very much underutilised resource. The article that the | :38:20. | :38:27. | |
honourable member for North Norfolk mentioned from the Economist, that | :38:28. | :38:35. | |
people with autism frequently have a high-level focus, meaning they can | :38:36. | :38:38. | |
spot patterns and errors in data that are not readily recognised by | :38:39. | :38:42. | |
other people, making them attractive employees for software firms. And | :38:43. | :38:48. | |
even people more significantly affected by autism can also hold | :38:49. | :38:51. | |
down jobs successfully. They often benefit from working in a highly | :38:52. | :38:55. | |
structured working environment, sometimes thriving on jobs of a | :38:56. | :39:01. | |
repetitive nature. And what really is necessary is for employers to | :39:02. | :39:05. | |
realise that that resource can be tapped, and that means frequently | :39:06. | :39:08. | |
creating the right conditions in which people with autism can work. | :39:09. | :39:14. | |
For example, employers must understand the need for people with | :39:15. | :39:20. | |
autism to receive clear instruction, and my right honourable friend | :39:21. | :39:23. | |
mentioned the excellent NAS video, too much information, which shows a | :39:24. | :39:28. | |
boy with autism being overcome by the general sounds that one | :39:29. | :39:32. | |
experiences in a shopping centre. Employers should start to realise | :39:33. | :39:36. | |
that people with autism may benefit from quieter working conditions, the | :39:37. | :39:41. | |
sound of a telephone or chatter around people with autism can prove | :39:42. | :39:44. | |
distracting to the extent of being unendurable. More therefore needs to | :39:45. | :39:50. | |
be done to improve the understanding of this condition. Since 2014, the | :39:51. | :39:57. | |
Government has spent some ?325,000 on limited awareness work, and that | :39:58. | :40:02. | |
is really a very small sum indeed. A lot more needs to be done. A lack of | :40:03. | :40:08. | |
understanding on the part of employers and potential colleagues | :40:09. | :40:14. | |
is a key barrier for autistic citizens to finding employment and | :40:15. | :40:18. | |
staying in, and the DWP have set up a joint unit to support people with | :40:19. | :40:22. | |
autism to find and stay in work whilst also improving their health. | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
These are important initiatives. But more needs to be done, and may I say | :40:28. | :40:32. | |
finally, Madam Deputy Speaker, more work must be done in attempting to | :40:33. | :40:37. | |
identify the causes of autism. They are still not well understood. | :40:38. | :40:40. | |
Research on twins indicates that genetic conditions may be a cause, | :40:41. | :40:45. | |
but there are also suggestions that there may be environmental causes | :40:46. | :40:49. | |
such as for example exposure prenatally to viruses, to air | :40:50. | :40:57. | |
pollution. Continued research is essential, but currently, the United | :40:58. | :41:00. | |
Kingdom spends just ?4 million per annum on autism research, as | :41:01. | :41:08. | |
compared to ?590 million on Cancer, ?139 million on heart disease and | :41:09. | :41:12. | |
?32 million on stroke. We must do more. | :41:13. | :41:18. | |
It gives us an opportunity to reflect on a far more widespread | :41:19. | :41:23. | |
condition than was previously thought and to do more in our power | :41:24. | :41:31. | |
to address it. Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. And I would | :41:32. | :41:33. | |
like to add my voice of congratulations to the right | :41:34. | :41:38. | |
honourable member for calling the debate and for what they have done | :41:39. | :41:45. | |
over the years to raise awareness. It is a pleasure to follow powerful | :41:46. | :41:48. | |
speeches across the chamber and I would like to comment on the | :41:49. | :41:53. | |
previous one. Autism is a spectrum disorder, meaning there is degree of | :41:54. | :41:58. | |
variation in the way it affects people. Every child or adult on that | :41:59. | :42:03. | |
spectrum has unique abilities, symptoms and varying challenges. | :42:04. | :42:09. | |
Some of the many challenges faced by people on the autism spectrum | :42:10. | :42:13. | |
disorder may include difficulty understanding other people's | :42:14. | :42:17. | |
feelings, reactions and non-verbal cues. Difficulty recognising | :42:18. | :42:21. | |
people's faces, and understanding their facial expressions. Children | :42:22. | :42:28. | |
and adults with autism spectrum disorders may have difficulty | :42:29. | :42:31. | |
regulating their emotions or expressing them appropriately. For | :42:32. | :42:34. | |
instance, they make start to cry or laugh hysterically for no apparent | :42:35. | :42:42. | |
reason. When stressed, they may seem disruptive or aggressive, breaking | :42:43. | :42:45. | |
things, heating others and harming themselves. The condition itself can | :42:46. | :42:52. | |
be isolating enough without society reinforcing it through other ring | :42:53. | :42:55. | |
and stigmatise of people with autism. Society can serve them more | :42:56. | :43:03. | |
fully than any condition. These behaviours can make it difficult for | :43:04. | :43:07. | |
these people and their families to take part in social events, everyday | :43:08. | :43:12. | |
tasks such as shopping or accessing public transport, fight described by | :43:13. | :43:17. | |
my honourable friend. The pressure of dealing with these situations can | :43:18. | :43:21. | |
be overwhelming for people and their families. As has been discussed, | :43:22. | :43:26. | |
often families will choose to exclude themselves from everyday | :43:27. | :43:30. | |
life in their communities rather than put up with staring and | :43:31. | :43:36. | |
whispered comments. Autism is such a poorly understood condition, even in | :43:37. | :43:40. | |
some cases by health professionals that children on the spectrum are | :43:41. | :43:43. | |
often seen as a naughty or badly parented. It is widely acknowledged | :43:44. | :43:49. | |
that early diagnosis and therapy at critical to improving people on the | :43:50. | :43:55. | |
autistic spectrum overcoming develop mental delays. However, we want to | :43:56. | :44:01. | |
diagnose this is too often difficult and time-consuming and requires | :44:02. | :44:05. | |
parents to have two fight for diagnosis in order to access | :44:06. | :44:07. | |
appropriate services and this puts an added burden of stress on sleep | :44:08. | :44:12. | |
deprived and struggling families, already coping with pressures and | :44:13. | :44:18. | |
challenges of family life. On average, adults have to wait two | :44:19. | :44:21. | |
years for diagnosis and children have to wait over three and a half | :44:22. | :44:30. | |
years. That is despite the National Institutes of Health and care | :44:31. | :44:33. | |
excellence guidelines saying the wait for diagnosis should be around | :44:34. | :44:36. | |
three months. Some children and their families have to wait more | :44:37. | :44:38. | |
than ten times the recommended period. We are failing at these | :44:39. | :44:44. | |
families and their children. The little talked about in sequence | :44:45. | :44:48. | |
families struggling with challenging and in usual behaviours is the | :44:49. | :44:51. | |
impact that can have on siblings and family life. A mother of a child on | :44:52. | :44:57. | |
the autistic spectrum in my constituency who I spoke to recently | :44:58. | :45:00. | |
explained that if her son was struggling to deal with a birthday | :45:01. | :45:03. | |
party, a noisy Macdonald 's or a busy shopping centre, it meant the | :45:04. | :45:10. | |
whole family had to leave. We must aim to improve the structural | :45:11. | :45:14. | |
process and outcomes of care for these children and their families. | :45:15. | :45:19. | |
Autism teams conducting assessment for children, young people or adults | :45:20. | :45:23. | |
and should be specialist integrated autism teams, with access to speech | :45:24. | :45:28. | |
and language therapists, occupational therapists and clinical | :45:29. | :45:32. | |
and educational psychologists. Systematic assessments for | :45:33. | :45:35. | |
conditions that coexist alongside autism should be part of the | :45:36. | :45:39. | |
diagnostic pathway as required by the autism act of 2009. That is | :45:40. | :45:45. | |
particularly important, because, and it has been touched on before, | :45:46. | :45:48. | |
people with autism may have coexisting physical health | :45:49. | :45:53. | |
conditions and mental health problems that if unrecognised and | :45:54. | :45:57. | |
untreated, will further impair their social functioning and it places | :45:58. | :46:00. | |
additional pressure on families and carers. The cause of social comedic | :46:01. | :46:04. | |
Asian difficulties, some people with autism may find it particularly | :46:05. | :46:10. | |
difficult to communicate their needs and access mainstream health and | :46:11. | :46:15. | |
social care services. People with autism should have a personalised | :46:16. | :46:19. | |
plan that is developed and implemented in partnership between | :46:20. | :46:22. | |
them, their family and carers if appropriate and at the autism team. | :46:23. | :46:28. | |
Let me finish by saying that people on the autistic spectrum are unique, | :46:29. | :46:30. | |
sensitive and often highly intelligent individuals who | :46:31. | :46:36. | |
desperately want to be part of the local and wider community, with more | :46:37. | :46:39. | |
support and understanding, this is achievable. We can and must do | :46:40. | :46:44. | |
better to secure better outcomes for adults and children with autism. | :46:45. | :46:49. | |
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I think it has become the thing in | :46:50. | :46:56. | |
this debate congratulate my right honourable friend. But I'm delighted | :46:57. | :47:01. | |
to do so for initiating this debate and for the excellent debate that | :47:02. | :47:09. | |
was outlined by my other right honourable friend over the autism | :47:10. | :47:11. | |
like that all the work she has done with them for taking this forward. I | :47:12. | :47:20. | |
became aware of autism through a lot of activity in my own constituency. | :47:21. | :47:25. | |
Toward the north of vehicles to choose it, I have a big autism unit | :47:26. | :47:32. | |
around the town and village. We have facilities in the hall in the north | :47:33. | :47:35. | |
of the constituency which is a marvellous place to go to, and if | :47:36. | :47:41. | |
you go there, the organised chaos that is there is absolutely | :47:42. | :47:45. | |
wonderful to see. And it is a great privilege to be part of that and to | :47:46. | :47:51. | |
see the enormous efforts that are made by the staff there to look | :47:52. | :47:55. | |
after people with autism. In the south of the constituency we have | :47:56. | :48:00. | |
the work of Dame Stephanie Sherman and others in that part of vehicles | :48:01. | :48:06. | |
to choose it. But I'd like to start first by paying tribute to a | :48:07. | :48:11. | |
particular charity my own constituency called Music For Waters | :48:12. | :48:15. | |
And. They have spotted there is a link between music and autism. This | :48:16. | :48:21. | |
is organised by the Orchestra of Saint John, many of whose members | :48:22. | :48:27. | |
spend hours of their time freely given going into schools and other | :48:28. | :48:30. | |
places and working with children with autism in order to show both | :48:31. | :48:36. | |
the calming effect of music on them and the enormous ability that it | :48:37. | :48:42. | |
gives to be able to take them forward to the next stage of | :48:43. | :48:47. | |
development. And I really would pay tribute to them for doing that. | :48:48. | :48:52. | |
There were two points that I wanted to make in this debate and break | :48:53. | :48:57. | |
out, then there are points I know have already been made by other | :48:58. | :49:00. | |
speakers, but I think it is worth reflecting on them and making the | :49:01. | :49:04. | |
points gained. The first is around diagnosis. I think the difficulty | :49:05. | :49:11. | |
for late diagnosis is not knowing the situation and the advantage of | :49:12. | :49:19. | |
having an early diagnosis is being better able to understand, how | :49:20. | :49:27. | |
behaviour, and how the role of partners can influence the way in | :49:28. | :49:32. | |
which we look at the people that have the diagnosis. That comes from | :49:33. | :49:38. | |
people I have met in the constituency. From a couple I met in | :49:39. | :49:44. | |
a cafe in Henley, who told me about their problems and the difficulties | :49:45. | :49:51. | |
they had had with late diagnosis. Because as we've heard, some are | :49:52. | :49:55. | |
able to lead pretty ordinary lives, managing the condition extremely | :49:56. | :50:02. | |
well. And I've met several over the years and indeed a young man at the | :50:03. | :50:06. | |
last Conservative Party conference that was able to demonstrate this. | :50:07. | :50:15. | |
But while I agree with the honourable member for Greenwich and | :50:16. | :50:18. | |
Woolwich, that public recognition of this is not the be all and end all | :50:19. | :50:22. | |
of the needs, it is certainly a good starting point. In order to help | :50:23. | :50:29. | |
people to live fulfilled lives that they need, we do need public | :50:30. | :50:40. | |
recognition of the illness. The need for an early diagnosis is absolutely | :50:41. | :50:46. | |
crucial. And I would urge the clinical commissioning groups and | :50:47. | :50:50. | |
NHS England to bring down the waiting times in a liner and work | :50:51. | :50:56. | |
with many different stakeholders to create a more responsive environment | :50:57. | :51:02. | |
and support. Those were the words suggested to me to describe the | :51:03. | :51:06. | |
situation and I think they do it extremely well. And a great element | :51:07. | :51:12. | |
of this which has only just been touched on has been the care and | :51:13. | :51:19. | |
management of adults and their involvement -- the involvement of | :51:20. | :51:23. | |
health and social care in this. And I think one of it is a broader | :51:24. | :51:28. | |
point, it is a good example of why we rapidly need the integration of | :51:29. | :51:32. | |
health and social care with the NHS. It is much better that all these | :51:33. | :51:38. | |
facilities are all under one roof rather than having to deal... Of | :51:39. | :51:45. | |
course. Would he recognised that in Northern Ireland, health and social | :51:46. | :51:50. | |
services are in the one body? Therefore, it is much easier to have | :51:51. | :51:54. | |
that integrated approach. However, we still need integration and | :51:55. | :51:58. | |
incorporation of other organisations and agencies by the Department for | :51:59. | :52:01. | |
Education and other groups will stop while, I think the honourable | :52:02. | :52:06. | |
gentleman makes a valid point and we do need that level of integration. | :52:07. | :52:12. | |
It is essential that we do. We need to start by integrating the medical | :52:13. | :52:18. | |
activities of the NHS with social worker within the community, because | :52:19. | :52:22. | |
until they are under one roof, we will not have the ability to be able | :52:23. | :52:25. | |
to deal with these problems in the way we would all like and away would | :52:26. | :52:30. | |
be -- that will be the most effective for people who suffer from | :52:31. | :52:36. | |
this condition. And the second point that I was going to make what about | :52:37. | :52:41. | |
education. And I do so from the point of view of having a wife who | :52:42. | :52:47. | |
for many years taught a young man with autism and struggled through | :52:48. | :52:55. | |
with providing that sort of assistance to him. It has been | :52:56. | :53:05. | |
remarkably successful in the way she's been able to do that. But that | :53:06. | :53:11. | |
was done on a private basis and the vast majority of children with | :53:12. | :53:16. | |
autism, over 70%, are in mainstream education. And it is there we need | :53:17. | :53:19. | |
to focus our attention. We must focus our attention is on being able | :53:20. | :53:23. | |
to include in the teacher training programme enough information on | :53:24. | :53:28. | |
autism that teachers feel empowered to be able to recognise it and deal | :53:29. | :53:33. | |
with it effectively. And I think if we can do that, we will have a much | :53:34. | :53:37. | |
better chance of purposefully dealing with those that have autism. | :53:38. | :53:45. | |
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I've done it already, but I will | :53:46. | :53:52. | |
again, because everybody is, I will congratulate the right honourable | :53:53. | :53:55. | |
member for Chesham and Amersham for her leadership on this. I suppose | :53:56. | :54:00. | |
what she has been involved in, but what they are all involved with, is | :54:01. | :54:06. | |
learning as a society about understanding autism are much better | :54:07. | :54:11. | |
and recognising that we fail people so badly with our ignorance as a | :54:12. | :54:19. | |
society about the potential comedy capacity of people to lead | :54:20. | :54:21. | |
fulfilling lives and to contribute massively to society. The honourable | :54:22. | :54:28. | |
member and a right honourable member over their strongly made at this | :54:29. | :54:34. | |
point that there are is so much that people with autism can do in the | :54:35. | :54:40. | |
employment sphere, they can be fantastic employees, can contribute | :54:41. | :54:42. | |
much a lead fulfilling lives, but we fail at them and of course it costs | :54:43. | :54:49. | |
the economy so much and it costs the Government so much because people | :54:50. | :54:52. | |
end up dependent on the state, because we have failed to provide | :54:53. | :54:56. | |
them with the support early on. That is the big challenge. I will give | :54:57. | :55:01. | |
way. I'm grateful to the honourable gentleman for giving way. We've just | :55:02. | :55:05. | |
been joined on the front bench by my honourable friend from Swindon | :55:06. | :55:09. | |
South, who was my predecessor. I would like to pay tribute to his | :55:10. | :55:13. | |
work. But I would stress that drinking in the autism Act and this | :55:14. | :55:18. | |
debate today, I wasn't supported across party and across this House | :55:19. | :55:24. | |
by many members, it was not me alone, but a team effort. That | :55:25. | :55:31. | |
brings me nicely to my next point. This is no one Government's | :55:32. | :55:34. | |
responsibility, we must all learn of this. What I would say is that as we | :55:35. | :55:40. | |
learn and understand more, and the Economist asked that we make a | :55:41. | :55:47. | |
stronger economic case, that if you invest in diagnosis and early | :55:48. | :55:50. | |
intervention you save a fortune in lifetime care. So as we learn, the | :55:51. | :55:55. | |
Government must respond, that is the challenge for Government and this | :55:56. | :55:59. | |
Government, because they are here now and there is learning that we've | :56:00. | :56:04. | |
achieved that we can gain improvements from, the Government | :56:05. | :56:08. | |
has a responsibility, I think, to respond. I will give way very | :56:09. | :56:13. | |
quickly. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Would he agree with me that | :56:14. | :56:18. | |
in the light debriefing, it said the Government does not collect aid | :56:19. | :56:22. | |
specifically on unemployment rates for people with autistic spectrum | :56:23. | :56:25. | |
conditions, and that's something we should campaign across parties | :56:26. | :56:28. | |
change and also work with business dad practices for interviews that | :56:29. | :56:32. | |
are friendly to those on the autistic spectrum? Well, I totally | :56:33. | :56:39. | |
agree. As a former minister, during my time in the department, I totally | :56:40. | :56:44. | |
recognise that whether it was mental health, autism or learning | :56:45. | :56:48. | |
disability, you operate in a fog. There is an absence of data that is | :56:49. | :56:54. | |
analysed and understood, and if we are to make the improvements that we | :56:55. | :56:57. | |
are capable of, we have to understand the evidence and that | :56:58. | :57:00. | |
involves the collection of data. So I agree with the points that she | :57:01. | :57:02. | |
makes. I just want to highlight the | :57:03. | :57:10. | |
failures of society and the extent to which we treat people with autism | :57:11. | :57:13. | |
as second class citizens by referring to cases. The first case | :57:14. | :57:20. | |
is one that has been much documented recently, the case of Conor | :57:21. | :57:24. | |
sparrowhawk, who tragically lost his life through drowning back in July | :57:25. | :57:35. | |
20 13. His mother, Sarah Ryan, has been amazing campaign to fight for | :57:36. | :57:39. | |
justice, that the Oxford mail reports this morning that there is a | :57:40. | :57:46. | |
report that has recently been leaked which demonstrates that, some 11 | :57:47. | :57:57. | |
months before, lost his life, -- before Connor lost his life, there | :57:58. | :58:02. | |
had been a report on failure of care in this very health trust, flagging | :58:03. | :58:08. | |
up issues with a lack of clarity of care, care plans, no clear | :58:09. | :58:13. | |
understanding of the locked door policy and so on. What is the point | :58:14. | :58:20. | |
of commissioning reports at enormous expense if their conclusions and | :58:21. | :58:23. | |
recommendations are then ignored? This week there has been a great | :58:24. | :58:27. | |
focus on the importance of accountability of public bodies, | :58:28. | :58:30. | |
with the shocking conclusion of the inquest into the tragedy at | :58:31. | :58:37. | |
Hillsborough. But the importance of accountability stretches across all | :58:38. | :58:40. | |
public bodies, and stretches into health care. And it is really | :58:41. | :58:44. | |
important for organisations to recognise that they have a | :58:45. | :58:49. | |
responsibility to the families of those who lose their lives, to | :58:50. | :58:55. | |
involve them in the investigation, to have an open and learning culture | :58:56. | :59:00. | |
rather than a closed culture which excludes families. The way in which | :59:01. | :59:04. | |
Sara Ryan has been treated by the trust is truly shocking. In the | :59:05. | :59:11. | |
investigation of this death. And there has to be accountability, and | :59:12. | :59:15. | |
a willingness to learn from the mistakes and actually take account | :59:16. | :59:17. | |
of the recommendations that are made. I just want to make a point. | :59:18. | :59:24. | |
As we try to get people out of assessment and treatment centres, | :59:25. | :59:27. | |
who in very many cases are left there for too long, the health and | :59:28. | :59:32. | |
safety due social care and information Centre has found that | :59:33. | :59:38. | |
15% of the transforming care cohort which the Minister will be whereof | :59:39. | :59:41. | |
have autism, with no learning disability. 23% have autism with a | :59:42. | :59:48. | |
learning disability. I just asked the Minister, will the department | :59:49. | :59:51. | |
ensure that in looking at the transforming care partnership plans, | :59:52. | :59:55. | |
and the outcomes for individuals, that we make sure that the specific | :59:56. | :00:00. | |
needs of autistic people are included and addressed. That is in | :00:01. | :00:05. | |
my view really important. I just wanted finally to refer to the case | :00:06. | :00:12. | |
of an extraordinary constituent of mine, a nine-year-old boy who wrote | :00:13. | :00:18. | |
a letter for his parents to take to a meeting that I had on his behalf | :00:19. | :00:22. | |
with the authorities at Norfolk County Council. It ended up with him | :00:23. | :00:29. | |
being interviewed on the Today programme, and it was a remarkable | :00:30. | :00:34. | |
interview, but he talked and wrote very movingly in this letter, he | :00:35. | :00:41. | |
said, I normally say to myself, you have to keep on going, and I | :00:42. | :00:46. | |
normally say, is it worth it? I could just kill myself. I wouldn't | :00:47. | :00:52. | |
have to face today. This is a nine-year old boy. And yet this | :00:53. | :00:57. | |
family has been waiting two years for a diagnosis without any real | :00:58. | :01:01. | |
support in the meantime. They are told that he doesn't meet the | :01:02. | :01:08. | |
threshold for care within the children's mental health service, | :01:09. | :01:21. | |
Cahm, and this family, through borrowing from other relatives, have | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
managed to raise support for this boy, but what about all those | :01:27. | :01:31. | |
families who can't afford it? This is intolerable, and we cannot | :01:32. | :01:34. | |
justify a society where you get help if you have got articular parents, | :01:35. | :01:40. | |
if you have parents with money, but those without go without. So my plea | :01:41. | :01:47. | |
to the Minister, as we seek to implement maximum waiting time | :01:48. | :01:54. | |
standards that we include autism, and we follow the Nice guidelines, | :01:55. | :02:01. | |
but the first diagnostic assessment should start no later than three | :02:02. | :02:06. | |
months after referral by the GP, not 36 months as I am told is sometimes | :02:07. | :02:11. | |
the case in Norfolk, or 24 months and many other parts of the country. | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
Three months. And the answer is this. As a society, and for the | :02:16. | :02:21. | |
Government, we will save money in the long run if we make the | :02:22. | :02:25. | |
investment in diagnosis and treatment at a very early stage. It | :02:26. | :02:34. | |
is a pleasure to follow the speech of the honourable gentleman for | :02:35. | :02:37. | |
Norfolk, and I think he makes the point on the need for early | :02:38. | :02:41. | |
diagnosis more powerfully than I possibly could, but it is certainly | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
one that I support. And I want to join in the congratulations for my | :02:47. | :02:48. | |
right honourable friend from Chesham and Amersham and all the others in | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
securing the autism act, it was the beginning of a journey that we can | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
continue with today's debate. I also want to echo the concerns that were | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
powerfully raised by colleagues from Argyll and Bute, and Bury St | :03:04. | :03:10. | |
Edmunds, about the risks of social isolation, and I want to point | :03:11. | :03:16. | |
towards organisations in my constituency that have taken strides | :03:17. | :03:26. | |
to reduce that isolation. An organisation in my constituency | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
provides a place for people with autism to come together and | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
socialise. It has been inspirational, and also, Aspi, the | :03:36. | :03:44. | |
charity mentioned earlier, which was set up by a constituent of mine on | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
the autistic spectrum, Sarah MacColl right, who tragically died, aged | :03:50. | :04:00. | |
only 38 two years ago next week. But she has left a remarkable legacy in | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
Worcester of a house which was bought by her parents for the | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
community where people on the spectrum can come together, | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
socialise, share ideas, and where I have been privileged to come to | :04:13. | :04:25. | |
meet people and been teased my neuro-typical behaviour and my in | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
accurate cake cutting their birthdays! But it has inspired | :04:30. | :04:36. | |
in themselves and their capacity to in themselves and their capacity to | :04:37. | :04:39. | |
work and create businesses the people on the spectrum. Many other | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
members have made the point powerfully about the talents of | :04:45. | :04:47. | |
people on the spectrum, and they need to unleash those. We heard | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
about the evidence in the Economist article. I want to pay tribute to | :04:52. | :05:04. | |
the organisation called Wits End Wizardry, which has discovered that | :05:05. | :05:14. | |
the skills of people on the autistic spectrum can be utilised when giving | :05:15. | :05:21. | |
them support, and I believe that they have done some important work | :05:22. | :05:30. | |
for various organisations, and it shows the contribution the people on | :05:31. | :05:36. | |
the spectrum can make. Wood boyfriend agree that using these | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
great talents, this concentration to see across different ways, in the | :05:41. | :05:50. | |
north-east, there is a group called Business Works, taking on those with | :05:51. | :06:00. | |
business Ph.D. Is to challenge others. I pay tribute to my | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
honourable friend's fantastic speech earlier, and she is onto something | :06:06. | :06:08. | |
here, we are seeing this in the north-east and Midlands where our | :06:09. | :06:11. | |
increasing cyber security cluster are looking to take on more people | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
with autism. We heard earlier about the incredible contribution of | :06:16. | :06:23. | |
Bletchley park and many people who were probably on the spectrum who | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
contributed to that work. In cyber security today, I see businesses | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
like the one in Worcester going out to recruit people with autism, and I | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
want to see more businesses making that effort and creating the | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
opportunities for people. You do need to do things a bit differently, | :06:42. | :06:47. | |
you can't just invite people into interview, because the whole process | :06:48. | :06:50. | |
of interview is set up to work with neuro-typical people. You need to | :06:51. | :06:56. | |
create an autism friendly job application process in order to make | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
sure that you are making the most of the talents of those people, and I | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
pay tribute to those businesses that are making the effort to do that. I | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
recently held a disability confident jobs fair in Worcester, and I was | :07:10. | :07:15. | |
very impressed to see major employers recruiting and saying, one | :07:16. | :07:18. | |
of their people representing them in their recruitment, was somebody who | :07:19. | :07:24. | |
I had previously met Aspi who is on the autistic spectrum, and I would | :07:25. | :07:27. | |
like to pay tribute to Justin McEwan who will be running the Worcester | :07:28. | :07:37. | |
ten K in support of Aspi. I would like to say we have many programmes | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
the Government to help people into work, we talk about halving the | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
disability gap, and autism is a area we should be hitting onto. There are | :07:46. | :07:53. | |
many aspects of the apprenticeships programme which can be tailored to | :07:54. | :07:58. | |
support people with autism. I know the Minister the skills are answered | :07:59. | :08:02. | |
a question about this, and I'm delighted to hear that he is engaged | :08:03. | :08:11. | |
in the round tables, making sure we can tailor programmes within the the | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
apprenticeship programme to suit more people on the spectrum. There | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
is much more work to be done on this, and I would like this A that I | :08:20. | :08:26. | |
am wearing to stand for aspiration and achievement as well as autism. | :08:27. | :08:36. | |
The Speaker: There are a great many people still wishing to speak, so I | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
will have to reduce the time to five minute. I will try to reduce mind | :08:41. | :08:47. | |
below five minutes to try to give others a chance to speak in what has | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
been an excellent debate so far. Really erudite and abuse in is. I | :08:53. | :08:58. | |
just want to make two main points. -- erudite contributions. The first | :08:59. | :09:04. | |
is on understanding the scale of this problem. People have talked at | :09:05. | :09:08. | |
length and given some excellent examples on this, but I want to | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
develop the issue of the sense that actually we are still far from | :09:15. | :09:20. | |
seeing the true scale of the autism problem in our country, partly | :09:21. | :09:26. | |
through the growing yet still insufficient recognition among | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
individuals in the community, but also, an area that I hope the | :09:32. | :09:40. | |
Minister will take up. In the number of really worrying ways in which | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
perhaps the true extent of the lack of capacity in local services is | :09:45. | :09:50. | |
being hidden at the moment, and the way that the extent to which people | :09:51. | :09:58. | |
are being denied is also being masked. The honourable member for | :09:59. | :10:07. | |
Glasgow East was talking about the long length of time of referrals, | :10:08. | :10:12. | |
way beyond the recommended limits, I believe, in Cumbria, my county, it | :10:13. | :10:19. | |
is even longer than the average, showing the problems. But I wanted | :10:20. | :10:22. | |
to just relate some of the particular concerns that parents of | :10:23. | :10:30. | |
autistic children consistently raise in the local support group they have | :10:31. | :10:35. | |
in talking with charities and directly with me, which suggests | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
that actually even the knowledge level of deficiency of the service | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
is not quite, does not reflect the true picture. One of them is an | :10:47. | :10:54. | |
contact being ignored, and how difficult it can be to get service | :10:55. | :10:57. | |
practitioners even to pick-up the phone, which would be something | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
which has not probably been documented, but you can't actually, | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
if you can't get on even the waiting list to be seen, or you are not | :11:07. | :11:12. | |
acknowledged because your contact is not being acknowledged, then the | :11:13. | :11:18. | |
problem is even bigger than is stated, and the other thing, and | :11:19. | :11:25. | |
this is particularly worrying, is a strong sense from parents that they | :11:26. | :11:30. | |
will have people tell them orally that the service is not sufficient | :11:31. | :11:37. | |
for them, but will refuse to put it in writing in a way which then could | :11:38. | :11:40. | |
allow them to escalate it through the system. And I would like the | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
Minister if possible to reflect on that, and to say whether he believes | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
that is a genuine problem or a wider problem. | :11:50. | :11:56. | |
The second point is my pride that my constituency contributing to the | :11:57. | :12:08. | |
wider awareness today. Firstly, the A Word, which is filmed in the north | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
of my constituency, as you will see from the programme, which is a | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
fabulous place to go. I commend all involved in a programme for doing a | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
really important work in a mainstream, prime-time BBC programme | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
that is getting the message out in an effective way. And the second, | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
and I have delayed my congratulations to the honourable | :12:31. | :12:37. | |
member to thank the way she has engaged with my constituent, Deborah | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
Brownson who has produced an excellent children's guide to autism | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
called He Is Not Naughty which she's tried to get into every school. I | :12:48. | :12:54. | |
want to ban the mayor of Barrow who was financially facilitated just | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
yesterday getting it all in the borough. The Minister is asking for | :12:59. | :13:07. | |
a personal copy and I will be delighted to do that and anybody in | :13:08. | :13:10. | |
this debate who can contribute to her financial drive to get this | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
illustrated book to other schools, all we need is the postage and | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
printing costs, it is a really excellent illustrated guide that | :13:21. | :13:26. | |
will explain to children just what is going on in the minds of autistic | :13:27. | :13:38. | |
children. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, I would also like to add my | :13:39. | :13:44. | |
congratulations to the member for Chesham and Amersham and fall the | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
team -- things she talked about earlier. Over the short time I've | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
been in this place I've had numerous families come to my surgery | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
despairing about the time it has taken to get an autism diagnosis for | :13:59. | :14:04. | |
their child. The diagnosis for those individual parents and their friends | :14:05. | :14:08. | |
and family is obvious. But without that, these children are trapped. | :14:09. | :14:14. | |
One of very moving case recently involved a seven-year-old boy, who | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
almost to years ago was referred to the paediatrician and his first | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
appointment in nine months to materialise when he was diagnosed | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
with ADHD. In January this year, it was referred for a communication | :14:28. | :14:30. | |
assessment and in March, his parents received the letter saying there | :14:31. | :14:34. | |
would be a further seven-month delay to access this assessment. This | :14:35. | :14:40. | |
little boy, due to his behaviour, is excluded from school more time than | :14:41. | :14:47. | |
he is at school. I'm sure my honourable friend can relate to | :14:48. | :14:51. | |
that. They tried to support him at his school, and they have a duty of | :14:52. | :14:54. | |
care to the children of course. He is about to move from infant to | :14:55. | :14:58. | |
junior school than that in itself is causing the problem. Schoolteachers | :14:59. | :15:02. | |
-- be school he should be going too has refused to take it because they | :15:03. | :15:07. | |
can't cope with his behaviour. Until he receives that autism diagnosis, | :15:08. | :15:10. | |
he is unable to access a special needs school, so it is a Catch-22. | :15:11. | :15:16. | |
As he is just one of an above cases I could highlight, I'm sure there | :15:17. | :15:23. | |
are other cases across the chamber today. In fact, last July, to help, | :15:24. | :15:29. | |
I wrote to the health list to highlight about an acceptable | :15:30. | :15:33. | |
delays. I got a comprehensive response, but sadly, nine months on, | :15:34. | :15:37. | |
nothing seems to have changed in Derbyshire and I'm getting the same | :15:38. | :15:43. | |
messages from the community paediatrician and that they are | :15:44. | :15:48. | |
looking to implement new pathways. That's the message I'm getting time | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
and time again and I know that's what we're doing, the pathways and | :15:53. | :15:59. | |
the services on offer by Chile determined locally, but today, I | :16:00. | :16:02. | |
want to call the Minister to do whatever he can to ensure the | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
children across the whole of Derbyshire, as my honourable friend | :16:07. | :16:13. | |
has also highlighted, that they get a timely diagnosis for the autism | :16:14. | :16:20. | |
spectrum disorder. In advance of this debate, I've been contacted by | :16:21. | :16:24. | |
a number of constituents. One particular parents care of a young | :16:25. | :16:27. | |
man with autism asked me to relate her story. She movingly described | :16:28. | :16:33. | |
how repeatedly being requested to prove he is autistic and fill out | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
form after former really makes her so's behaviour, and I quote, go | :16:38. | :16:43. | |
through the roof. She says her son's autism is very complex and she has | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
to speak to him in a certain way, explaining the meaning of words. It | :16:48. | :16:51. | |
is important, because it can lead to violence if the wrong word is used. | :16:52. | :16:55. | |
And that his violence against her. She says that also the tone of her | :16:56. | :17:01. | |
voice and body language are most -- of the utmost importance and she | :17:02. | :17:05. | |
says please stop and think, not everyone can be the same. We need | :17:06. | :17:09. | |
understanding as well as policies that help and we feel at the moment, | :17:10. | :17:14. | |
the policies are devastating our lives. So, Madam Deputy Speaker, and | :17:15. | :17:21. | |
I think I've been able to use my time quite well, the National | :17:22. | :17:26. | |
autistic six aside to report, Too Much Information is aimed at | :17:27. | :17:31. | |
improving understanding of autism. But it is not just members of the | :17:32. | :17:36. | |
public who need a better understanding of autism, but also | :17:37. | :17:41. | |
those who should be supporting these vulnerable children and young adults | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
who need to be more aware of the consequences of not providing the | :17:47. | :17:48. | |
right support at the right time. Thank you. There are three areas I | :17:49. | :17:56. | |
want to touch on today, diagnose waiting times and public awareness. | :17:57. | :18:03. | |
We have heard already this afternoon that the time that people are | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
waiting for a diagnosis is an acceptable and is certainly | :18:09. | :18:10. | |
reflected in the correspondence from I constituents on this matter. One | :18:11. | :18:15. | |
had to wait almost five years for her son's diagnosis and she told me | :18:16. | :18:21. | |
that she was told us was a very complex and were professionals | :18:22. | :18:24. | |
recognised his traits, you did not fit neatly into one diagnosis box. | :18:25. | :18:29. | |
That is because every autistic person is unique and different. | :18:30. | :18:34. | |
Another constituent who lives in Lancaster described to me that she | :18:35. | :18:42. | |
had autism and was diagnosed aged 44 after a lifetime of struggle. Access | :18:43. | :18:45. | |
to diagnosis opens up that support network that is out there to support | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
people, so will the Minister and assure that the NHS England's new | :18:50. | :18:53. | |
autism care pathway includes and reduces diagnosis waiting times? | :18:54. | :19:00. | |
I've been privileged to work closely with the local National Autistic | :19:01. | :19:03. | |
Society group in my constituency, chaired by Jill manner and it was | :19:04. | :19:08. | |
clear early on that one of the big issues facing the group was access | :19:09. | :19:11. | |
to an employment and with only 50% of adults on the spectrum in | :19:12. | :19:15. | |
full-time unpaid work, that reflected in the statistics. This is | :19:16. | :19:19. | |
one of the reasons why I'm working locally to Pat... To support | :19:20. | :19:27. | |
employees and take a autistic people. I'm looking forward to the | :19:28. | :19:30. | |
Government publishing its white paper on this ability and employment | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
this year. They say it will set out reforms to improve support for | :19:35. | :19:37. | |
people with health conditions and disabilities, including exploring | :19:38. | :19:41. | |
the roles of employers to further reduce the disability employment gap | :19:42. | :19:45. | |
and promote integration across health and employment. But the | :19:46. | :19:47. | |
minister be able to give us any indication about when we might | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
expect this, because I am aware the dates have been moved around? We | :19:53. | :19:55. | |
know anecdotally that autistic people feel of the current employer | :19:56. | :19:57. | |
and support services do not meet their needs, but the current system | :19:58. | :20:01. | |
does not record their participation or outcomes from work programmes. I | :20:02. | :20:07. | |
want to see more robust data on autistic people to understand how | :20:08. | :20:11. | |
provision is working for them and furthermore, what are we doing to | :20:12. | :20:13. | |
support young people with autism to make that transition from education | :20:14. | :20:19. | |
to the world of work. Michael Stich when said his son gets a lot of | :20:20. | :20:22. | |
support in school but is very worried about what happens when he | :20:23. | :20:26. | |
finishes education. The Government has committed to replacing the | :20:27. | :20:30. | |
current work programme with this new work in health programme for people | :20:31. | :20:33. | |
with health conditions and disabilities. This presents an | :20:34. | :20:37. | |
important opportunity for us to go more to support autistic people in | :20:38. | :20:42. | |
particular to find and stay in work. I'd like to ask the Minister, in | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
relation to the new work and health programme, what date the Internet a | :20:47. | :20:50. | |
document will be published and what date the programme will be | :20:51. | :20:53. | |
operational from and whether the specification for the programme will | :20:54. | :20:56. | |
be required that the conditions of the claimants will be recorded by | :20:57. | :21:01. | |
both providers and Jobcentre plus including autism and what | :21:02. | :21:03. | |
discussions he has had about the conditions that will be recorded. On | :21:04. | :21:11. | |
awareness and funding, one thing that came across from my | :21:12. | :21:14. | |
constituents was that people often think if you are autistic you have a | :21:15. | :21:17. | |
genius talent and they don't really understand the idea of a meltdown. | :21:18. | :21:22. | |
It is just used to describe any kind of naughty behaviour. This lack of | :21:23. | :21:24. | |
understanding is where the Government can take a leadership in | :21:25. | :21:30. | |
tackling that. Have people on the spectrum and tell them that they do | :21:31. | :21:33. | |
not go out because they are worried about the reactions of others to | :21:34. | :21:37. | |
their autism and a quarter have been asked to leave a public place | :21:38. | :21:41. | |
because of their behaviour associated with their autism. Sardar | :21:42. | :21:45. | |
parents cope? They respond by not taking their children into the | :21:46. | :21:49. | |
places where they don't feel they can and it makes these children have | :21:50. | :21:54. | |
a smaller world, they cannot lead a public space is that we all enjoy, | :21:55. | :22:00. | |
parks, museums and shopping centres. I want to say the video which has | :22:01. | :22:06. | |
had 50 million views was a fantastic way of describing just difficult it | :22:07. | :22:10. | |
is as a parent of an autistic child. The Government can do a lot more and | :22:11. | :22:18. | |
I say around a 10,000 people in this country are affected by dementia and | :22:19. | :22:21. | |
the Government has shown great bravery in trying to change public | :22:22. | :22:26. | |
attitudes on dementia by spending over ?2 million on awareness | :22:27. | :22:29. | |
campaigns. This work needs to be done to reach as people on the | :22:30. | :22:32. | |
autistic spectrum in the same way. I'm aware of the Government's | :22:33. | :22:36. | |
?340,000 programme in this area and I'm looking for to him in the | :22:37. | :22:39. | |
minister's remarks telling us more about the scope of this project. | :22:40. | :22:46. | |
Things like the A Word on the BBC, this is now the time when the | :22:47. | :22:49. | |
Government can relate the awareness of autism into a true understanding. | :22:50. | :23:00. | |
Can I start, and I'm aware she's not in her place, by thanking the right | :23:01. | :23:08. | |
honourable member for Chesham and Amersham who has the stowed so many | :23:09. | :23:12. | |
rights through legislation and has really started this whole chain and | :23:13. | :23:16. | |
I'd like to page but and give my thanks on behalf on Michael Stich | :23:17. | :23:20. | |
runs. Madam Deputy Speaker, I think it is fair to say that having been | :23:21. | :23:23. | |
elected only for the last year, before the election, I had a direct | :23:24. | :23:27. | |
experience of autism at all. Indeed, it was only a problem being | :23:28. | :23:34. | |
selective group of mothers who had autistic children or children with | :23:35. | :23:37. | |
Asperger's reached out to me. They sat me down and explained how | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
difficult the lives were. They asked what they needed and how hard it was | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
to navigate through the system and since then, I've pledged I could do | :23:47. | :23:50. | |
all I can to help people with a very, very special children indeed. | :23:51. | :23:56. | |
Upon election, I was faced with on my first cases, which was a | :23:57. | :24:00. | |
situation of a mother with a young child aged six where she had applied | :24:01. | :24:04. | |
to the DVLA for a blue badge because her child in such difficult -- such | :24:05. | :24:11. | |
a difficult condition that whenever he saw anyone in the streets, he | :24:12. | :24:16. | |
collapsed. As a result, she had to carry her six-year-old child | :24:17. | :24:20. | |
everywhere. She asks to be DVLA for a blue badge, but because in doing | :24:21. | :24:24. | |
the text box system could not see any physical disability, she was | :24:25. | :24:30. | |
unable to get the blue badge. We have to fight on her behalf and were | :24:31. | :24:34. | |
fortunate to go in at a high level and get someone who understood the | :24:35. | :24:39. | |
complex needs. That taught me that in a tick box system, for those with | :24:40. | :24:43. | |
autism that such a unique and differing needs, they do not fit | :24:44. | :24:48. | |
into that system. I would like to ask the Minister if he can find some | :24:49. | :24:52. | |
way of ensuring that anybody who works in a tick box employment | :24:53. | :24:57. | |
system, perhaps they should be the first to have autism training, | :24:58. | :25:01. | |
because is often the case that it is impossible for autistic children and | :25:02. | :25:04. | |
their families to navigate that system. Since then, I've dealt with | :25:05. | :25:09. | |
more cases are being involved in special groups who work for those | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
who have this condition in the constituency. It is without regard I | :25:15. | :25:20. | |
want to focus on to points. Firstly, education and secondly the | :25:21. | :25:23. | |
workplace. -- two points. I'm fortunate that it begs we have two | :25:24. | :25:27. | |
special schools packet of those with autism and other conditions. -- | :25:28. | :25:35. | |
schools that deal with those. One school is rated of outstanding in | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
all areas and I quote, the Ofsted report in 2015 talks about the | :25:40. | :25:42. | |
inspirational headteacher and the assistant head teachers. | :25:43. | :25:46. | |
It says all staff have an unqualified focus on the learning of | :25:47. | :25:58. | |
the children. That must be the goal that every single school for | :25:59. | :26:00. | |
children with autism must seek to follow. St Mary's is also in | :26:01. | :26:05. | |
Bexhill, where young people don't just learn but also live in the | :26:06. | :26:08. | |
environment, and they have had a difficult time due to a crisis of an | :26:09. | :26:13. | |
the Dons in the chief executive. I visited the school the day the chief | :26:14. | :26:17. | |
executive left, and I was knocked away by how caring, supporting and | :26:18. | :26:26. | |
dedicated those teachers were in difficult and challenging | :26:27. | :26:28. | |
conditions, and I have to take my hat off to all those who work in | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
that environment. I do believe better times are ahead. And just a | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
couple of points that the constituents of phrase to me with | :26:37. | :26:42. | |
respect to schools. Autistic children have individual and | :26:43. | :26:45. | |
different needs, and often need a different school to cater for them, | :26:46. | :26:50. | |
but my county, East Sussex County Council, tends to favour one school, | :26:51. | :26:53. | |
so it is very difficult the parents get their choice of school through, | :26:54. | :26:56. | |
and I would like to see more freedom. We have trained 90,000 | :26:57. | :27:02. | |
teachers in autism, but another comment I have had is that a child | :27:03. | :27:07. | |
was felt by their parents to have been isolated and restrained rather | :27:08. | :27:13. | |
than experience positive teaching strategies. My constituents also | :27:14. | :27:20. | |
struggle due to the long period of time it takes to get a diagnosis in | :27:21. | :27:25. | |
place. Very briefly I want to mention employment. Tomorrow I have | :27:26. | :27:30. | |
a jobs and apprenticeship fair, and I'm delighted that St Mary's in | :27:31. | :27:33. | |
Bexhill will be bringing their young people down so that we can try to | :27:34. | :27:38. | |
get them apprenticeships. I have an organisation called little gate farm | :27:39. | :27:44. | |
that can help people to get employment opportunities, from that | :27:45. | :27:46. | |
gap from school into the employment in rural communities, and I salute | :27:47. | :27:51. | |
what they do and whatever does in my constituency for these very special | :27:52. | :28:01. | |
and gifted people. Two weeks ago, I wouldn't have been able to speak in | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
this debate at all, but because of a very pressing constituency issue, I | :28:06. | :28:11. | |
find myself suddenly having to read up, listen, and I have learned so | :28:12. | :28:16. | |
much today about autism. The only previous experience was teaching | :28:17. | :28:19. | |
some autistic young men who passed through my hands as a former further | :28:20. | :28:27. | |
education lecturer. I have become more and more aware of the need for | :28:28. | :28:31. | |
raising awareness of autism at all levels, in the general public as | :28:32. | :28:36. | |
well as with public authorities. And my honourable friend from Argyll and | :28:37. | :28:40. | |
Bute mentioned the Scottish Government's plans for autism and | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
their strategy, and as part of that, they opened six centres across | :28:46. | :28:49. | |
Scotland to provide a one-stop shop experience the parents and people | :28:50. | :28:56. | |
with autism. The one-stop shop in Motherwell will probably close in | :28:57. | :29:01. | |
June this year, and since that has been announced, I have had | :29:02. | :29:05. | |
innumerable e-mails from members of my constituency and people out with | :29:06. | :29:09. | |
because it covers the whole of Lanarkshire, and there are two local | :29:10. | :29:17. | |
authorities involved, North Lanarkshire Council and South | :29:18. | :29:20. | |
Lanarkshire Council which are not now going to fund these shops, which | :29:21. | :29:25. | |
is a devastating blow to my constituents and people across | :29:26. | :29:33. | |
Lanarkshire. The one-stop shop provides workshops, training and | :29:34. | :29:36. | |
support services for those with autism, and this is even before | :29:37. | :29:40. | |
diagnosis. Anyone who thinks they may have an issue can go there and | :29:41. | :29:45. | |
get advice. They were planning to run further courses the girls with | :29:46. | :29:49. | |
autism, which is a very important area, and they were also hoping to | :29:50. | :29:53. | |
run other specific and technical courses for parents and | :29:54. | :29:59. | |
professionals. My local authority in North Lanarkshire Council has | :30:00. | :30:03. | |
indicated that it will continue to fund an organisation called Hope for | :30:04. | :30:07. | |
autism, which does good work with families in North Lanarkshire. | :30:08. | :30:13. | |
However, they only get access after diagnosis, and it is mainly focused | :30:14. | :30:18. | |
on socialising and is the children only. There is also an annual Fiva | :30:19. | :30:25. | |
parents and children who joined this, and the fee is per child. This | :30:26. | :30:31. | |
is devastating news, and I don't want to stand in this place and | :30:32. | :30:37. | |
denigrate anything that Hoper Autism and North Lanarkshire hazard will | :30:38. | :30:41. | |
continue to do, but they are not providing the range of services that | :30:42. | :30:45. | |
parents access at parents, and this is causing great distress. I was | :30:46. | :30:53. | |
unable to attend a meeting at the one-stop shop on Monday, but my | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
office manager went and came back in tears almost at some of the stories | :30:58. | :31:04. | |
that she heard. She said she found it most moving when parents said | :31:05. | :31:11. | |
that they wished almost their children had a visible disability, | :31:12. | :31:13. | |
that they wished they had something else, because then they would get | :31:14. | :31:19. | |
more help, more hope, and people would understand what was happening | :31:20. | :31:26. | |
with their children. And as I say, my office manager found this really, | :31:27. | :31:32. | |
really heartfelt and it really brought it home to her how little | :31:33. | :31:37. | |
she knew as well about autism. I don't think for one moment that | :31:38. | :31:44. | |
North Lanarkshire Council is doing this out of badness, I know there | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
are difficulties all over the UK in funding, but I don't think they | :31:49. | :31:51. | |
actually understand what the one-stop shop was actually | :31:52. | :31:59. | |
providing. I have a list here of some of the wonderful work that they | :32:00. | :32:13. | |
have done. They ran workshops on sleep strategies, diet, autism and | :32:14. | :32:32. | |
play, avoiding behaviour, safe talk autism awareness training, and all | :32:33. | :32:40. | |
of this will be lost in my area. I'm grateful to the honourable lady | :32:41. | :32:46. | |
forgiving way. I think it is important what she is saying. Does | :32:47. | :32:51. | |
she think that there is any possibility of that decision being | :32:52. | :32:55. | |
reversed now she is making such a powerful case for keeping it open | :32:56. | :33:01. | |
for her constituents and people beyond her constituency? I thank the | :33:02. | :33:08. | |
honourable lady for her intervention and the time it may buy me, and I | :33:09. | :33:13. | |
think the parents as you can imagine are fighting hard to retain this and | :33:14. | :33:18. | |
to convince the councils that this is a service which must be funded. | :33:19. | :33:22. | |
It must be funded because of the great work that it does and the | :33:23. | :33:26. | |
benefits that it brings to anyone in North Lanarkshire, and South | :33:27. | :33:30. | |
Lanarkshire, affected by autism. Some of the e-mails I have had our | :33:31. | :33:36. | |
heart-wrenching. Social isolation, nine-year-old children trying to | :33:37. | :33:41. | |
kill themselves, and all of them say that the work that has been done | :33:42. | :33:46. | |
here, and the staff in this one-stop shop, two of the staff are sick on | :33:47. | :33:50. | |
good from Scottish autism, people who will lose their jobs. They all | :33:51. | :33:57. | |
have nothing but raise for the help they have received. I am sorry madam | :33:58. | :34:01. | |
Deputy Speaker, I don't think I can say any more that no one help, and I | :34:02. | :34:07. | |
will go on and fight for this very valuable shop in Motherwell. Thank | :34:08. | :34:16. | |
you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am proud to be a governor at Aylesbury | :34:17. | :34:19. | |
School, a special school, where more than one third of people is autism. | :34:20. | :34:26. | |
Many are on diagnosed when they start school. It has become a | :34:27. | :34:31. | |
specialist autism school, and I am particularly grateful for the deputy | :34:32. | :34:37. | |
head, Amanda Appleby, for the insight she has offered ahead of | :34:38. | :34:45. | |
this debate. There are also two special schools in my own | :34:46. | :34:48. | |
constituency doing special work for children with autism. The prior | :34:49. | :34:53. | |
school has been related outstanding in every single category for its | :34:54. | :34:54. | |
last two Ofsted inspection I was pleased to | :34:55. | :35:09. | |
open their new post-16 facility in my constituency last autumn, which | :35:10. | :35:14. | |
means that more young people with autism will be able to access | :35:15. | :35:17. | |
further education and vocational education. Autism is a lifelong | :35:18. | :35:24. | |
condition that affects people very differently. It affects how people | :35:25. | :35:29. | |
communicate and how they make sense of the world around them. There are | :35:30. | :35:37. | |
huge variations in the way that it affects people, whilst many live | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
largely independent lives, others need more specialist support. Many | :35:42. | :35:51. | |
unfortunately live a life full of anxiety, depression, mental health | :35:52. | :35:55. | |
issues, and sensory sensitivity that make it extremely difficult to | :35:56. | :36:00. | |
function to access normal situations and public services that we take for | :36:01. | :36:04. | |
granted. A 2012 estimate of the number of people on the autistic | :36:05. | :36:11. | |
spectrum founder prevalence of about 1.1% amongst adult, whilst a later | :36:12. | :36:17. | |
study finds a similar figure amongst children. So if this House is | :36:18. | :36:23. | |
representative of the population at large, we might expect at least | :36:24. | :36:26. | |
seven members to be on the autistic spectrum. Unfortunately, the | :36:27. | :36:32. | |
excellent support and education provided to children with autism at | :36:33. | :36:38. | |
this school isn't always reflected in the education system as a whole. | :36:39. | :36:46. | |
There are 120,000 school aged children in England on the autistic | :36:47. | :36:52. | |
spectrum, and more than 70% of those are in mainstream education. The | :36:53. | :36:57. | |
implication of this is that many, many teachers in mainstream schools | :36:58. | :37:02. | |
are likely to have children with autism in their classes. And if they | :37:03. | :37:06. | |
don't have the moment, they almost certainly well at some stage during | :37:07. | :37:14. | |
their career. I pay tribute to the NASUWT for the valuable work they | :37:15. | :37:18. | |
have done in this area, and particularly the report to which my | :37:19. | :37:20. | |
right honourable friend for Chesham and Amersham referred, showing that | :37:21. | :37:25. | |
60% of teachers do not believe they have enough training to meet the | :37:26. | :37:32. | |
pupils with ASD. Of course. My normal friend is making powerful | :37:33. | :37:36. | |
points around education. Is he aware of the work that is being done by | :37:37. | :37:40. | |
Ambitious about autism where they have looked at the number of special | :37:41. | :37:45. | |
educational appeals and tribunal is, that have gone up from over 1019 95 | :37:46. | :37:54. | |
to now over 4000 in 2014? And autism is amongst the most common type of | :37:55. | :38:03. | |
appeal. I thank my right honourable friend, and having met with | :38:04. | :38:07. | |
Ambitious on that very point, I certainly recognise the challenge to | :38:08. | :38:16. | |
which she is referring. Difficulties within the classroom and for | :38:17. | :38:21. | |
families of children with autism often arise really because of a lack | :38:22. | :38:23. | |
of knowledge and understanding of the condition. Children on the | :38:24. | :38:31. | |
autistic spectrum often get chastised for not behaving in | :38:32. | :38:34. | |
exactly the same way as other children do. Children on the | :38:35. | :38:41. | |
spectrum have high extrusion rates, figures from the Department for | :38:42. | :38:45. | |
Education show that autistic pupils are four times more likely to be | :38:46. | :38:50. | |
excluded when compared to pupils with no special educational needs. | :38:51. | :38:56. | |
Teacher training must equip teachers with and knowledge and tools that | :38:57. | :38:59. | |
they need to provide all pupils with the best loss of support throughout | :39:00. | :39:04. | |
their time in education, and that is why I support Ambitious for Autism's | :39:05. | :39:13. | |
call for autism to be included in the new teacher training framework. | :39:14. | :39:17. | |
If I may now conclude my remarks with the words of Mr and Mrs | :39:18. | :39:22. | |
Whitmore, parents of a pupil at my school. They said, we want our son | :39:23. | :39:28. | |
to be except to, and for him to be accepted equally as a citizen of | :39:29. | :39:34. | |
this country, as his peers are. Autism is only a small fraction of | :39:35. | :39:40. | |
our son. It is not everything hears. He is so much more than the label | :39:41. | :39:44. | |
Society has given him. And I think it is for people like Will, for the | :39:45. | :39:49. | |
families working to make sure that their children and every body | :39:50. | :39:54. | |
affected by autism can have the best possible chance to fulfil their full | :39:55. | :39:58. | |
potential, whatever that is, whether it is in the workplace or in society | :39:59. | :40:07. | |
as a whole, it is a huge positive step forward that we are having this | :40:08. | :40:10. | |
debate, and the quality the contributions made, and I look | :40:11. | :40:15. | |
forward to hearing the Minister's response. I am grateful for the | :40:16. | :40:22. | |
opportunity to speak in this debate, and add my tribute to the honourable | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
member for Chesham and Amersham on securing this debate, and on her | :40:28. | :40:30. | |
long-standing commitment and hard work on this issue. I have been | :40:31. | :40:35. | |
contacted by several parents of children with autism, parents who | :40:36. | :40:40. | |
are proud of their children's abilities, and simply want, as any | :40:41. | :40:44. | |
parent wants, their children to receive the support they need to | :40:45. | :40:46. | |
live the best life possible. There are many problems and | :40:47. | :40:57. | |
challenges and they cut across different areas of public sector | :40:58. | :41:00. | |
responsibility. I have represented parents with autistic children who | :41:01. | :41:02. | |
are struggling to get a diagnosis for their son or daughter. And that | :41:03. | :41:07. | |
is a very significant problem. Just as worrying, however, the goal is to | :41:08. | :41:12. | |
have contact me whose child has a diagnosis, but who are still | :41:13. | :41:15. | |
struggling to secure the additional resources and support that they | :41:16. | :41:19. | |
need. Whether this is a classroom ball with transport to get to and | :41:20. | :41:23. | |
from school or in accessing housing which is appropriate for the family | :41:24. | :41:28. | |
all with the welfare system -- all with the welfare system or health | :41:29. | :41:31. | |
care. There is a lack of in the standings with autism and that is | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
across the public spectre where families face the grand stereotypes | :41:36. | :41:38. | |
and the complex it is not understood and this results in parents facing | :41:39. | :41:42. | |
weekly and sometimes daily battles on behalf of their children just to | :41:43. | :41:47. | |
secure the basics. I was privileged earlier this year to meet Isabella | :41:48. | :41:53. | |
Robin Garnett whose 15-year-old son has autism. She came to see me and | :41:54. | :41:56. | |
my surgery to tell me about the terrible experiences Mathie was | :41:57. | :41:59. | |
having because of his mental health needs. -- Matthew. People who also | :42:00. | :42:06. | |
mental health needs experienced this but I would like to focus on today. | :42:07. | :42:11. | |
Last summer, Matthew's behaviour and a level of distress deteriorated and | :42:12. | :42:15. | |
his family were finding it harder to cope. Eventually, they assaulted his | :42:16. | :42:20. | |
father, resulting in his parents calling the police, a heartbreaking | :42:21. | :42:24. | |
situation for any family. That it was sectioned under the Mental | :42:25. | :42:27. | |
Health Act and they can do is like a chick intensive care unit, many | :42:28. | :42:32. | |
miles from his south London home. Psychiatric intensive care units are | :42:33. | :42:36. | |
for short term assessment, dies -- design to diagnose the treatment and | :42:37. | :42:41. | |
make an onward referral within 6-8 weeks. The doctors quickly had | :42:42. | :42:45. | |
untied the most appropriate place for Matthew to be was a unit in | :42:46. | :42:50. | |
Northampton. They accepted the referral, but to his mother's | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
distress, Matthew remained in Woking for a further six months only moving | :42:56. | :42:58. | |
after persistent campaign on behalf of his family and after I'd | :42:59. | :43:02. | |
repeatedly raised the case in parliament and with the Minister. | :43:03. | :43:05. | |
I'm grateful to the Minister for meeting with me and Matthew's family | :43:06. | :43:10. | |
and recognising the extent of their suffering and the serious issues | :43:11. | :43:13. | |
with his care and for initiating a review of his case and all forward | :43:14. | :43:17. | |
to seeing the results of the review and discussing it with him. One of | :43:18. | :43:21. | |
the most troubling aspects of the situation was the absolute absence | :43:22. | :43:24. | |
of autism awareness or specialism in the care received while in Woking | :43:25. | :43:30. | |
for six months. There was no recognition of his need for routine | :43:31. | :43:34. | |
and structure and the impacts of his diet on his condition and the | :43:35. | :43:37. | |
detrimental impact of too much screen time on his mood and anxiety. | :43:38. | :43:42. | |
As a consequence, his condition deteriorated both physically and | :43:43. | :43:45. | |
mentally, he gained weight, became withdrawn, broke his wrist and his | :43:46. | :43:49. | |
social skills and reading ability became a regressed and he became | :43:50. | :43:53. | |
more anxious and frightened. Is parents launched a brave campaign to | :43:54. | :43:56. | |
get him in the treatment he needed and in doing so, and gazed with many | :43:57. | :44:02. | |
other parents of autism with mental health needs. -- engaged with. They | :44:03. | :44:05. | |
launched a questionnaire for parents of children with autism and mental | :44:06. | :44:10. | |
health needs and within a few days, more than eight to be parents have | :44:11. | :44:17. | |
signed the petition and the results are troubling. Almost half of the | :44:18. | :44:23. | |
respondents had omitted the prior to their child been omitted hospital | :44:24. | :44:27. | |
bid received no support for autism or mental health needs. 85% of | :44:28. | :44:30. | |
respondents used rather be admitted to hospital said they did not | :44:31. | :44:34. | |
receive any autism specific report -- help and half said they do not | :44:35. | :44:39. | |
feel involved in decisions about their child's care and 61% said | :44:40. | :44:44. | |
after their child was discharged, no Rangers for support back in the | :44:45. | :44:47. | |
community were made. Children with autism and their parents and carers | :44:48. | :44:52. | |
deserve better. I'm grateful to the Minister for his engagement with | :44:53. | :44:54. | |
Matthew Garner's family, I isn't a pick-up this and ensure a fairer | :44:55. | :45:04. | |
deal for families facing these daily heartbreaking struggles and | :45:05. | :45:06. | |
appropriate resourcing for the support they need. Thank you, Madam | :45:07. | :45:13. | |
Deputy Speaker. It is said a society is adjudged by the way it treats its | :45:14. | :45:20. | |
most vulnerable. Amongst our most vulnerable children with special | :45:21. | :45:22. | |
educational needs including those on the autism spectrum. I want to give | :45:23. | :45:28. | |
a voice to just a few of the many parents who over the past six years | :45:29. | :45:34. | |
have to me, including support groups, to describe their challenges | :45:35. | :45:38. | |
in trying to get appropriate support for the autistic children, described | :45:39. | :45:45. | |
by far too many with these words, every day feels like a fight. Time | :45:46. | :45:51. | |
prohibits me from quoting all I have to describe their struggles in | :45:52. | :45:55. | |
seeking often inadequate slow or no diagnosis. Also of insufficient | :45:56. | :46:01. | |
teacher training, a feeling as parents they have little voice or | :46:02. | :46:06. | |
are inadequate or worse, not believed. Have struggled with | :46:07. | :46:12. | |
bureaucracy, to many different organisations, of being pushed from | :46:13. | :46:16. | |
pillar to post, of funding and resource frustrations, of being, as | :46:17. | :46:21. | |
another said, at a loss as to what to do. We need to do better for | :46:22. | :46:27. | |
them. One said we have two children who have autism and face huge | :46:28. | :46:30. | |
challenges getting the understanding and support they need. Another said | :46:31. | :46:34. | |
that teachers in her child's school in charge of special educational | :46:35. | :46:39. | |
needs do not so visually specialised training. Another said teachers are | :46:40. | :46:42. | |
given very little training many only get half a day to cover all special | :46:43. | :46:49. | |
needs. Another said or training was needed so teachers can get older | :46:50. | :46:53. | |
children to understand themselves where there may be an onset of | :46:54. | :46:57. | |
distress and how to get help early on. Another said her son has | :46:58. | :47:01. | |
difficulties in school and what has not helped is that the educational | :47:02. | :47:07. | |
psychologist and the school said I should not say his is an autistic | :47:08. | :47:13. | |
spectrum, rather, that he is a complex child with complex needs. | :47:14. | :47:17. | |
But the letter from the community paediatrician doesn't say he has a | :47:18. | :47:26. | |
diagnosis of AST. -- ASD. Another says all the parents tell you | :47:27. | :47:30. | |
children can hold anxieties and behaviour at school in order to fit | :47:31. | :47:34. | |
in. When they get to an environment where they can be themselves, they | :47:35. | :47:40. | |
act completely differently. One said I had three uniforms, these were all | :47:41. | :47:44. | |
torn when he rates turned home due to what had got the day. Doctors | :47:45. | :47:49. | |
often listened more to teachers and parents. Parents are made to feel | :47:50. | :47:55. | |
said another that they are bad parents and troublemakers and what | :47:56. | :47:59. | |
parents would want to go to so much effort to be tender their child has | :48:00. | :48:05. | |
a disability? -- so much effort to pretend. The diagnosis process is | :48:06. | :48:10. | |
not working, waiting times are too long and some children are being | :48:11. | :48:14. | |
deliberated over for to log being discharged when there is clearly an | :48:15. | :48:18. | |
issue that these diagnoses. Another 30 which attention is paid to the | :48:19. | :48:21. | |
opinion of teachers and not enough to parents. One told me she spent | :48:22. | :48:27. | |
three years to try and get her son's statements, but because they didn't | :48:28. | :48:30. | |
have one, they can get support at school, because the money comes with | :48:31. | :48:37. | |
the statement. He is now 12, has ASD as diagnosed by a paediatrician but | :48:38. | :48:41. | |
is still not -- but still what other statement. -- but does store not | :48:42. | :48:54. | |
have a statements. The line, every day feels like a fightback came from | :48:55. | :48:58. | |
one of the parents you just mentioned. Surely we have talked | :48:59. | :49:02. | |
about this so long there should be more progress to try get more | :49:03. | :49:05. | |
cooperation between the agencies of Government departments to ensure | :49:06. | :49:10. | |
that every day is not a fight for parents and for those affected. He | :49:11. | :49:17. | |
is correct and following autism act in 2009, the Department for health | :49:18. | :49:21. | |
published a strategy which focused on five core areas of activity. One | :49:22. | :49:26. | |
was the importance of and I quote, developing a clear, consistent | :49:27. | :49:30. | |
pathway for diagnosis in every area which is followed by the offer of a | :49:31. | :49:35. | |
personalised need assessment. That was for adults. How much more | :49:36. | :49:40. | |
important is it that this happens for children and at the earliest | :49:41. | :49:43. | |
possible age and stage? Waiting times for assessment should follow | :49:44. | :49:48. | |
the guidelines of three months. That is a long time in a childhood, three | :49:49. | :49:55. | |
years. It is an eternity. Another parent wrote, when diagnosis occurs | :49:56. | :49:57. | |
then is to be a greater understanding of the different ways | :49:58. | :50:00. | |
in which autism at present is all between girls and boys. There is not | :50:01. | :50:05. | |
enough knowledge about girls on the spectrum. It is now recognised that | :50:06. | :50:10. | |
there are far more girls with ASD than previously thought. They | :50:11. | :50:13. | |
develop the ability to mask their condition much more effectively. Far | :50:14. | :50:17. | |
more training is needed for professionals in the field to ensure | :50:18. | :50:21. | |
our girls get equal access to assessment and diagnosis. My son was | :50:22. | :50:26. | |
diagnosed locally by the paediatrician, yet these same doctor | :50:27. | :50:29. | |
had quite evidently decided my daughter was not on the spectrum. | :50:30. | :50:34. | |
Though he didn't investigate the possibility, so I had to take my | :50:35. | :50:36. | |
daughter privately to a psychologist who was much more well-informed. | :50:37. | :50:42. | |
This needs to be addressed. We are doing our girls a disservice at | :50:43. | :50:46. | |
present. Another said, autism is a spectrum of conditions and everyone | :50:47. | :50:52. | |
requires an individual solution. Particularly as autism can be | :50:53. | :50:56. | |
accompanied by another condition. And as we have heard, further | :50:57. | :50:59. | |
problem arises, as parents tell me that when a child reaches a late | :51:00. | :51:03. | |
teens and falls between child and adult care, one mother told me that | :51:04. | :51:08. | |
children with autism have an adolescent lasting a decade longer | :51:09. | :51:12. | |
than anyone else, but at 16-18, schools and colleges stop talking to | :51:13. | :51:16. | |
EU, but your child still need support for a very long time. | :51:17. | :51:21. | |
Another said there are so many stumbling blocks on the way, it is | :51:22. | :51:25. | |
no wonder some of the children end up in the juvenile justice system or | :51:26. | :51:28. | |
self harm. And then there's the problem of an appointment will stop | :51:29. | :51:33. | |
another told me of a struggle she has tried to find employment for her | :51:34. | :51:38. | |
son with mild Asperger's. There's no support available and huge ignorance | :51:39. | :51:43. | |
amongst potential employers. Given the right help, appropriate support | :51:44. | :51:47. | |
can be really effective and that is why we want for every Child, | :51:48. | :51:51. | |
including those with autism, the best start in life. It can be | :51:52. | :51:59. | |
achieved. FICA, modern macro. I speak as another currently on the | :52:00. | :52:05. | |
waiting list -- Madam Deputy Speaker. I thank everyone for their | :52:06. | :52:13. | |
comments. I commend the member for Chesham and Amersham. She is a | :52:14. | :52:22. | |
tireless campaigner on this issue. It is a subject incredibly close to | :52:23. | :52:27. | |
my heart. There are some misconceptions about autism and I | :52:28. | :52:29. | |
get thrown around, so does everyone is somewhere on the spectrum of, | :52:30. | :52:34. | |
which we here in this place a lot. Or that people with autism have some | :52:35. | :52:39. | |
sort of superpower or special gift! I can tell you now that they don't. | :52:40. | :52:44. | |
Last week I was watching Star Wars with my summers and the lovely | :52:45. | :52:49. | |
autistic friend. Between us we decided that what appeared as a | :52:50. | :52:55. | |
teenage tantrum of the new dark Lord was perhaps him just needing time | :52:56. | :53:00. | |
out. We concluded that perhaps he was autistic and just could not fit | :53:01. | :53:05. | |
into the world he found himself in. Perhaps the new death Star was just | :53:06. | :53:09. | |
to annoy Xand made him stressed out. We thought he might wear the mask | :53:10. | :53:13. | |
because he didn't like icon types. I'm not sure it was the intention of | :53:14. | :53:17. | |
the film-makers, but it's often close to him. The people I work with | :53:18. | :53:24. | |
get autism but the live with it every day. -- they live with it | :53:25. | :53:31. | |
every day. It is not the person with autism who has a problem, but the | :53:32. | :53:35. | |
rest of the world. We have to think effectively about those within | :53:36. | :53:38. | |
differently. I'm the families struggling with autism in adulthood | :53:39. | :53:45. | |
and my constituency every day. In Michael Stich was it, there's an | :53:46. | :53:50. | |
amazing autism support group called Spectrum and every meeting is packed | :53:51. | :53:54. | |
with parents who need a break. It is not a minority issue but a growing | :53:55. | :53:58. | |
one and we are not keeping pace with our provision awareness or | :53:59. | :54:02. | |
attitudes. Today, I want to focus on how the world needs to think | :54:03. | :54:06. | |
differently about employment for those with autism. Only 15% of | :54:07. | :54:10. | |
working age people are currently in work according to the National | :54:11. | :54:14. | |
Autistic Society. Any parent with a child with autism, this presents a | :54:15. | :54:17. | |
heartbreaking and bleak future, but it does not need to be. Ambitious | :54:18. | :54:23. | |
about autism have identified at 95% of young people with the condition | :54:24. | :54:29. | |
and want to work, so what can we do? The DWP have made some impressive | :54:30. | :54:33. | |
commitments in the last few years in job centre plus, saying they will | :54:34. | :54:35. | |
implement autism awareness and networks, but in reality, and I | :54:36. | :54:44. | |
welcome all this, that is not our people in my constituency are | :54:45. | :54:48. | |
experiencing it. In one case, my constituent told me and I quote, I | :54:49. | :54:52. | |
do not blame the staff, but it comes down to a lack of understanding and | :54:53. | :54:56. | |
as above a job centre claim to provide is not there. I was treated | :54:57. | :55:00. | |
as though I had no disability and left to my own devices. This is the | :55:01. | :55:05. | |
problem of having an invisible disability. I will give way. I thank | :55:06. | :55:10. | |
her for giving away because I was at a meeting last week and some be | :55:11. | :55:13. | |
raised the issue about the job centre, specifically around | :55:14. | :55:19. | |
self-assessment and self-assessment for people with autism or Asperger's | :55:20. | :55:22. | |
being incredibly difficult, so why does that continue to be part of the | :55:23. | :55:28. | |
process watcher Mark I thank her for her intervention and I couldn't | :55:29. | :55:32. | |
agree more. Another constituent told me this week our job centre failed | :55:33. | :55:38. | |
to allow his mother to be learned for him -- attend with him. This | :55:39. | :55:44. | |
meant frequent incidents of faltering benefits and has made him | :55:45. | :55:48. | |
incredibly vulnerable and have totally insecure finances. On | :55:49. | :55:52. | |
another occasion a mother wanted to access a bus pass for the home to | :55:53. | :55:56. | |
school scheme in order to get her son ready for when he leaves school | :55:57. | :56:00. | |
in a few years so he can go on a bus alone. She was given a computer says | :56:01. | :56:08. | |
no told to return in a few years when it wouldn't matter. -- when it | :56:09. | :56:12. | |
would matter. We have got to be bold and flexible, | :56:13. | :56:23. | |
and think differently about how we can make our services available to | :56:24. | :56:27. | |
people on the autistic spectrum. We have come a long way from the days | :56:28. | :56:31. | |
when people in a wheelchair couldn't access a job because they couldn't | :56:32. | :56:35. | |
get into a building. In the case of autistic people, it may not be a | :56:36. | :56:39. | |
physical barrier like a staircase, but the barrier is the same. Not | :56:40. | :56:44. | |
providing fair and equal access for these people is not only wrong, it | :56:45. | :56:48. | |
is illegal, and employers need to know this. We need employers to | :56:49. | :56:51. | |
understand how an interview might feel to somebody with autism, it is | :56:52. | :56:57. | |
terrifying enough for somebody who is neurotypical, so imagine that you | :56:58. | :57:01. | |
cannot look somebody in the eye or find it impossible to talk in front | :57:02. | :57:07. | |
of strangers, or you cannot understand if two people talk over | :57:08. | :57:12. | |
each other. I would ask everyone in this place to do as I have done and | :57:13. | :57:16. | |
offered to provide work experience for a young person with autism. I | :57:17. | :57:22. | |
would imagine I would learn as much on my placement if not more. I would | :57:23. | :57:26. | |
encourage us to do the same with our local business improvement district, | :57:27. | :57:31. | |
and ask businesses to do the same, to offer tailored work placement and | :57:32. | :57:35. | |
apprenticeships. This will help us all to think differently. I want to | :57:36. | :57:39. | |
stand here and say with confidence to every young person with autism, | :57:40. | :57:43. | |
every parent with a child on the autistic spectrum, you can do | :57:44. | :57:47. | |
anything. I want to say, your future is bright. I wanted to say it to | :57:48. | :57:53. | |
myself for my son. I want to say it to my son's Star Wars fan friend, | :57:54. | :57:58. | |
but I can't. I don't know what the future will be like them. So let's | :57:59. | :58:02. | |
try and change it, let's think differently. I thank the right | :58:03. | :58:10. | |
honourable member for Chesham and Amersham from reinforced this debate | :58:11. | :58:13. | |
today, and I'm grateful for the opportunity to speak in today's | :58:14. | :58:17. | |
debate, and put my full support by the motion before us today. As I | :58:18. | :58:21. | |
prepared my notes, it became obvious that while members of this chamber | :58:22. | :58:25. | |
have an important role to play in raising awareness of autism, | :58:26. | :58:27. | |
valuable insights will always come from those with the direct | :58:28. | :58:36. | |
experience of the condition. They are the ones who know what services | :58:37. | :58:40. | |
are working or not and what changes can be made to make society autism | :58:41. | :58:45. | |
friendly. It is important to make their voices heard. The people in | :58:46. | :58:49. | |
particular I will highlight, firstly a constituent whose son has autism, | :58:50. | :58:54. | |
and secondly, Vicky McCarthy, the founder of reach for autism, a | :58:55. | :58:59. | |
nonprofit organisation operating in my constituency of Inverclyde. I | :59:00. | :59:08. | |
have a constituent who moved with her six-year-old son in 2003. They | :59:09. | :59:16. | |
are somewhat aware with autistic children, where others lacked basic | :59:17. | :59:25. | |
understanding of situations, and a lack of age-appropriate activities | :59:26. | :59:31. | |
were teenagers with autism. Teenage years are difficult time with | :59:32. | :59:34. | |
anyone, let alone anyone with autism. Greater coordination between | :59:35. | :59:41. | |
social services and parents could lead to services being held at bay | :59:42. | :59:45. | |
to reflect the needs of those children. -- better reflect. She | :59:46. | :59:52. | |
felt a while access to information with easily obtained through the | :59:53. | :59:56. | |
schools, contacting social services was a laborious process with no | :59:57. | :59:59. | |
guarantee of assistance at the end of it. My constituent summarised the | :00:00. | :00:03. | |
situation best in her own words when she said, I would describe our life | :00:04. | :00:10. | |
is one big battle of every tiny scrap of help, and someone who is | :00:11. | :00:14. | |
naturally quite a shy person, this has brought its own difficulties. | :00:15. | :00:19. | |
Many parents of an autistic child will undoubtedly relate to these | :00:20. | :00:21. | |
concerns, and we must recognise their commitment to campaigning for | :00:22. | :00:32. | |
that support to be available. One organisation campaigning for this is | :00:33. | :00:36. | |
Reach for Autism, established by Vicky McCarthy. It offers a wide | :00:37. | :00:39. | |
rage of support from teacher training to mental programmes, -- | :00:40. | :00:54. | |
mentor programmes. Not only for autistic people, but their families. | :00:55. | :01:00. | |
Lifeline services like those established by Vicky can transform | :01:01. | :01:05. | |
lives. We can decrease the chances of autistic people suffering from | :01:06. | :01:08. | |
mental health problems as a result of social isolation or a low | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
self-esteem. This investment ensures that people with autism feel valued, | :01:13. | :01:20. | |
and prepared for employment, and normal lives. Reach for Autism has | :01:21. | :01:26. | |
no core funding, and running costs are met entirely through donations | :01:27. | :01:31. | |
in their own fundraising. The organisation and is vital services | :01:32. | :01:34. | |
could not exist without the energetic support of volunteers, and | :01:35. | :01:40. | |
the determined efforts of Vicky. For those individuals and their | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
families, the organisations themselves, those touched by autism | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
are faced with the same obstacles, a lack of funding, I lack of certainty | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
over future support, and a lack of public understanding of the | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
condition. In conclusion, I hope that other members join with me | :01:58. | :02:03. | |
today in claiming that people with autism, their families, | :02:04. | :02:05. | |
organisations that support them, deserve better than this | :02:06. | :02:08. | |
never-ending uphill struggle. All people, including those with autism, | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
deserve the chance to realise their full potential, and with increasing | :02:13. | :02:15. | |
awareness, we can take important steps towards becoming a more autism | :02:16. | :02:20. | |
friendly society. I know I am the better from increased knowledge, and | :02:21. | :02:24. | |
I would like to thank Vicky and all those who have raised my awareness | :02:25. | :02:29. | |
and understanding. Thank you, Madam Deputy chair. I would like to add my | :02:30. | :02:36. | |
voice to the clamour, the chorus of appreciation to the right on Rob on | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
them before Chesham and Amersham not just for sponsoring this debate | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
today, but for all the work she has done. -- the right honourable | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
member. This is a subject close to my heart, and I am speaking as a | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
former teacher of English for over 20 years. She witnessed first hand | :02:54. | :03:01. | |
some of the obstacles young people face living with autism. This debate | :03:02. | :03:07. | |
is important not just because of the challenges that those living with | :03:08. | :03:10. | |
autism have to cope with, but also because of the isolation, sometimes | :03:11. | :03:16. | |
the bullying, the judgment call attitudes, that they face from a | :03:17. | :03:22. | |
society that too often simply does not comprehend this condition, and | :03:23. | :03:26. | |
that is why we all, and I think there is consensus today, we all | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
need to work hard, not just to raise awareness of this condition but | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
understanding of it, and in the long-term, society's lack of | :03:36. | :03:37. | |
understanding can leave an individual with autism quite | :03:38. | :03:41. | |
emotionally scarred, and in the longer term, coming to difficulties | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
accessing employment and the means to a fulfilling life. The scale of | :03:46. | :03:52. | |
those affected by this condition is significant, and it is thought that | :03:53. | :03:55. | |
more than one person in every 100 maybe autistic, and behind each | :03:56. | :03:59. | |
individual case as we have heard today are families, loved ones and | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
friends who also live with this condition. A study in 2008 revealed | :04:05. | :04:12. | |
that as many as 71% of children with autism also live with a mental | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
health condition such as anxiety, depression and obsessive-compulsive | :04:18. | :04:23. | |
disorder. The Association of graduate careers advisory services | :04:24. | :04:26. | |
found that 26% of graduates of the autism spectrum are unemployed, by | :04:27. | :04:33. | |
far the highest rate of any disability group, and more than | :04:34. | :04:35. | |
double the average unemployment rate for disabled adults. And whilst | :04:36. | :04:41. | |
figures are hard to establish, it is thought that only 15% of autistic | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
adults in the UK are in full-time work. A large-scale study in the | :04:46. | :04:54. | |
British Journal of psychiatry found that people with autism are more | :04:55. | :04:56. | |
than twice as likely than their peers in the wider population to die | :04:57. | :05:04. | |
prematurely. We have heard it today, no two people with autism are the | :05:05. | :05:10. | |
same. There is a whole spectrum of the condition which may perhaps | :05:11. | :05:17. | |
explain the gaps in understanding of the condition in the wider | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
population, but we know it can be quite debilitating for the | :05:22. | :05:24. | |
individual involved, as well as his or her family, if they suffer from | :05:25. | :05:30. | |
the condition with any severity. Progress has been made, but it is | :05:31. | :05:33. | |
important that as much work as possible continues to be undertaken | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
to promote, as I have said, not just awareness but understanding, and | :05:38. | :05:42. | |
recent work undertaken by the National Autistic Society found that | :05:43. | :05:46. | |
only 16% of those living with autism and their families felt that the | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
general public had a meaningful understanding of it. I am optimistic | :05:51. | :05:57. | |
that folk on the whole on the heart a decent, and if we can help to | :05:58. | :06:03. | |
raise awareness in this debate, I think this is a small part of that | :06:04. | :06:08. | |
and if we can raise understanding of this condition, we know that the | :06:09. | :06:18. | |
public will display more compassion towards those in this condition. | :06:19. | :06:30. | |
Which it also welcome the schools that have an understanding of those | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
pupils, helping those on the autistic spectrum to interact with | :06:36. | :06:46. | |
the world as it is. I want to talk about the honourable gentleman very | :06:47. | :06:50. | |
important point, in some schools there is a deficit of understanding | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
and a deficit of support going on, but there are also excellent | :06:55. | :06:57. | |
examples of teachers who have had quite thorough training in autism, | :06:58. | :07:03. | |
and are able to support children in quite a specialised way and help | :07:04. | :07:06. | |
them access the curriculum in quite a meaningful way that otherwise | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
would take place. I think we have to recognise that and share that good | :07:11. | :07:13. | |
practice around the entire UK wherever it exists. It is important | :07:14. | :07:19. | |
that when we raise understanding of autism, that helps, we understand | :07:20. | :07:25. | |
that that will help to erase, to remove the shadow of loneliness and | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
isolation that far too often those living with autism and their | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
families bring. We know that loneliness and isolation has a very | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
negative impact on the general health of those affected by it, and | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
it is considered that loneliness is as damaging to health as smoking, | :07:44. | :07:49. | |
and that puts into sharp focus the importance of this. I just want to | :07:50. | :07:56. | |
pay tribute to work going on in my own constituency. And I attended an | :07:57. | :08:04. | |
event in Ardrossan library where people living with autism come | :08:05. | :08:11. | |
together and share stories about the strategies they use, and I want to | :08:12. | :08:21. | |
pay tribute to Suzanne Fernando in my undying quite proud of the work | :08:22. | :08:29. | |
going on my constituency in the Scottish strategy for autism, | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
putting this on the agenda, putting resources into it, because when | :08:35. | :08:36. | |
children and young people, and adults with autism, lose out, they | :08:37. | :08:42. | |
are lost our society, and we need to be more inclusive and mindful of | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
that. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I'd join in the | :08:48. | :08:51. | |
congratulations to the honourable member for Chesham and Amersham for | :08:52. | :08:54. | |
securing this debate and all of her work on this issue. Last week I was | :08:55. | :09:02. | |
invited to Grimsby autism forum, a fantastic group which helps those | :09:03. | :09:04. | |
with autism and their families to have a voice within the many | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
different systems that they find themselves thrust into, and I would | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
like to raise some of the issues they shared with me there. There | :09:14. | :09:19. | |
seem to be two main areas of concern, problems with diagnosing | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
autism and asked Burges, and the lack of post diagnosis support and | :09:25. | :09:31. | |
subsequent pathways, and speaking from experience, the parents seem to | :09:32. | :09:37. | |
really have to work for the diagnosis and the help, and it | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
sounds like there is a hurdle every step of the way. In Grimsby, no one | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
knows who is meant to be responsible for diagnosis, there is no clear | :09:47. | :09:49. | |
division of responsibility between the clinical commissioning group and | :09:50. | :09:52. | |
the child and adolescent mental health services. The issue is | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
particularly acute with regard to 16-18 -year-olds. If you are that | :09:58. | :10:03. | |
age, you can forget about being diagnosed, I was told. I would be | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
grateful if the Minister could clarify in his speech which body has | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
the responsibility for diagnosing at those ages and say why this isn't | :10:13. | :10:15. | |
happening. Many parents feel there is also a reluctance by schools, the | :10:16. | :10:19. | |
local authority and the CCG to statement children, which prevents | :10:20. | :10:22. | |
them from accessing additional services that they need. Some | :10:23. | :10:28. | |
parents, does the Minister believe there may be an issue that councils | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
and schools are not as proactive as they could be in diagnosing | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
children. Some people also complained about certain assessments | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
being done out of area. If long journeys are likely to exacerbate | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
the worst symptoms of a condition, some people simply won't go, they | :10:47. | :10:49. | |
will not take their children and therefore miss out on the help they | :10:50. | :10:54. | |
so desperately need. Autism and Asperger's on their own can be | :10:55. | :10:56. | |
difficult conditions the people and their carers to cope with, but as | :10:57. | :11:03. | |
the honourable member said, co-morbidity is really common, and | :11:04. | :11:07. | |
can make diagnosis less likely still, and it is a real frustration | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
to parents when people receive help anxiety or depression, before they | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
even receive a diagnosis for what they feel is the core problem. | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
Helpful coexisting conditions is welcome and necessary. But when it | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
supersedes autism or Asperger's support, it is simply seen as | :11:25. | :11:26. | |
messing about at the edges. They are still held the bike in | :11:27. | :11:36. | |
education and find it difficult to break into the job market. Too often | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
autistic children are put into the naughty box at school and research | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
says that most teachers feel they don't feel they've had adequate | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
training to these children with autism, which is worrying given that | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
70% are educated in mainstream schools. I believe that children | :11:54. | :11:56. | |
with autism can absolutely succeed at school but if teachers are not | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
properly equipped to help them, then too often, they are simply written | :12:02. | :12:08. | |
offer. I find it shocking as the member for Dudley South mentioned, | :12:09. | :12:11. | |
the majority of exclusions are for children with special education | :12:12. | :12:17. | |
needs, yet only 15% of all students. How can be compatible with the | :12:18. | :12:20. | |
equalities act which specifically prohibits dissemination against | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
people by excluding the pupil from school. Upon leaving, school young | :12:25. | :12:28. | |
people with Asperger's and autism often struggle to get a job all keep | :12:29. | :12:35. | |
one. A charity in Grimsby runs shops and garden centres which provide | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
opportunities for work and training to people with mental health | :12:40. | :12:41. | |
conditions. It is a valuable schema and I like to see more employers | :12:42. | :12:47. | |
outside the charity sector doing the same. I'm sure there's plenty the | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
Government can do to promote employment for people with mental | :12:52. | :12:54. | |
health conditions in the public sector as well as an enterprising | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
private sector firms to do the same. There are some employers who do a | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
lot to encourage disabled people to apply for jobs with them, for | :13:03. | :13:05. | |
instance by including a positive about disabled people at symbol on | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
the job adverts. But while disabled people are advised to look for the | :13:10. | :13:12. | |
symbol on adverts, I don't understand why job centres do not | :13:13. | :13:15. | |
hold list of employers within the local area which are certified as | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
such. Surely that will be a relatively simple and helpful step | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
for job seekers with autism and Asperger's. I hope the Minister will | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
join me in calling for my local job centre to collect this information | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
and start sharing it with autistic job-seekers. Overall, I think there | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
needs to be a better understanding of autism and Asperger's across | :13:37. | :13:40. | |
society, diagnosis needs to be more common and the process in seeking | :13:41. | :13:43. | |
diagnosis needs to be made much easier for parents. Thank you, Madam | :13:44. | :13:53. | |
Deputy Speaker. I also thank the right honourable member for the | :13:54. | :13:56. | |
vital and much-needed debate and that lighter bank the member for | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
South Swindon who would be speaking today if she were able to do so. I'm | :14:02. | :14:14. | |
the also the father of an autistic child at with learning difficulties. | :14:15. | :14:17. | |
I wanted to share some personal insight into living with a family | :14:18. | :14:21. | |
member with autism, unfortunately, I realise the speech I brought will | :14:22. | :14:24. | |
problem last of the full duration of the debate, so I can't give that. | :14:25. | :14:31. | |
But I want to debate should be to some of the excellent organisations | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
nationally and locally who help support children and adults with | :14:36. | :14:38. | |
autism. And also to say a bit about how much services in my area in | :14:39. | :14:41. | |
greater Manchester need to develop in future. I'm blessed to be at the | :14:42. | :14:46. | |
father of four beautiful children, my oldest was born when I was a new | :14:47. | :14:52. | |
graduate in my early 20s and I remember driving back from the | :14:53. | :14:55. | |
hospital the day after his birth genuinely listening to the radio | :14:56. | :15:02. | |
when Elton John came on and feeling is all new parents do, that's | :15:03. | :15:06. | |
tremendous excitement but also a healthy dose of nervousness the | :15:07. | :15:11. | |
knife us life would ever be quite the same again. And as the first of | :15:12. | :15:20. | |
my peer group to have children, we missed early signs something wasn't | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
quite right. And Jack's mother and I unfortunately separated when he was | :15:26. | :15:31. | |
one, and many of the things he saw attribute it to the difficulty of | :15:32. | :15:35. | |
him having to different families. We soon came to see everything was not | :15:36. | :15:38. | |
quite as it should be, particularly when taking him to football swimming | :15:39. | :15:42. | |
when you can follow the rules or societal norms of the situation it | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
was in. It was a difficult moment when we received news of the | :15:48. | :15:51. | |
diagnosis. There is no denying it, there was a sense of anger, guilt | :15:52. | :15:56. | |
and sometimes a sense of shame. But also relief for many parents who are | :15:57. | :16:01. | |
struggling for the diagnosis of themselves. They will be looking for | :16:02. | :16:05. | |
that sense of relief that comes from that. There are big consequences for | :16:06. | :16:10. | |
family life. We've heard about families getting difficulty in going | :16:11. | :16:14. | |
out because of the reaction and they get. You can imagine that is | :16:15. | :16:17. | |
particularly hard when you are the local MP in attendance have large | :16:18. | :16:21. | |
civic occasions is mandatory for the job. The challenge we have, as well | :16:22. | :16:29. | |
as all the things on provision of health care and mental health | :16:30. | :16:32. | |
provision, is to make our society one that is more autism friendly. | :16:33. | :16:36. | |
There are some brilliant people doing that in this country, I would | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
like to commend the work of the National Autistic Society, and | :16:42. | :16:44. | |
particularly their recent campaign, too much information which I believe | :16:45. | :16:48. | |
is the most powerful campaign yet. I was touched by the film, shot | :16:49. | :16:51. | |
entirely from the perspective of a child with autism are walking | :16:52. | :16:54. | |
through a shopping centre which gives a minute long insight into the | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
discomfort, sensory overload and claustrophobic that are normal for | :17:00. | :17:03. | |
people with autism. And whether child has a meltdown, the view | :17:04. | :17:06. | |
understands why that is. There are many others I would like to talk | :17:07. | :17:14. | |
about, about other charities and the work they do insert the causes and | :17:15. | :17:19. | |
treatments of autism, but I also want to say I see some trilanders | :17:20. | :17:21. | |
work in this country, models from the sector, but also from other | :17:22. | :17:29. | |
organisations. Asda have been given as an example, many cinema chains | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
are embracing autism friendly screenings which I find fantastic. | :17:34. | :17:37. | |
My older beloved football club, Sunderland have built a sensory room | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
in their stadium for autistic fans, which has never been available | :17:42. | :17:53. | |
before. Another company leading the way is Manchester Airport who | :17:54. | :17:56. | |
fast-track families with autistic children through the stressful and | :17:57. | :18:00. | |
Barnett of airport security and have greater vigour some booklets with | :18:01. | :18:03. | |
help but people for what I spent from an airport experience and their | :18:04. | :18:06. | |
thoughtfulness is literally helping open up access in a wider world for | :18:07. | :18:11. | |
people in greater Manchester and beyond with autism. That brings me | :18:12. | :18:19. | |
turn my final point, Manchester is performing well in the national NHS | :18:20. | :18:23. | |
strategy for autism and my hope for what we can all do with devolution | :18:24. | :18:26. | |
of health provision in greater Manchester is to make it the first | :18:27. | :18:30. | |
autism friendly city region in the world. I want to see more public | :18:31. | :18:34. | |
spaces are accessible to those with autism, more public servants | :18:35. | :18:40. | |
empowered as autism champions and an ambitious strategy for education and | :18:41. | :18:43. | |
employability. I want greater Manchester to be a beacon of best | :18:44. | :18:46. | |
practice for autism across the world. I hope the Minister will | :18:47. | :18:50. | |
share that ambition. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I'd like to | :18:51. | :18:55. | |
congratulate the Backbench Business Committee and the right honourable | :18:56. | :19:00. | |
member for Chesham and Amersham for bringing this debate and for being | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
an autism champion herself. As a clinical psychologist, I've worked | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
with many people who have autistic spectrum disorder and I'd like to | :19:10. | :19:13. | |
put one up -- on a record that it's a privilege to be a member of all | :19:14. | :19:17. | |
Parliamentary group and the co-sponsor of this today. Autistic | :19:18. | :19:23. | |
spectrum disorder is a pervasive, lifelong developmental disorder | :19:24. | :19:27. | |
which affects people socially. It impacts upon how people communicate | :19:28. | :19:30. | |
with others how they relate to people and how they experience the | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
world around them. They get professional is one thing, but the | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
key lesson we must learn is that the greatest insights, from those who | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
have autistic spectrum disorder and their families and we must listen | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
very, very carefully to what they tell us. We know that how they | :19:48. | :19:53. | |
interact with individuals with ASD and their families can have a huge | :19:54. | :19:57. | |
impact upon the quality of life. Negative public reactions can | :19:58. | :20:00. | |
encourage people and their families to avoid situations and social | :20:01. | :20:04. | |
contact which can lead to them coming socially isolated and also | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
experiencing and all health difficulties. I will give way. | :20:09. | :20:14. | |
Obviously, the debate has covered a lot of the structural and supportive | :20:15. | :20:18. | |
things that need to be done, but is it not also just thrown down the | :20:19. | :20:22. | |
gauntlet to us that we need to change our view? We think people | :20:23. | :20:26. | |
with autism as finding difficulty in seeing the world as we see it, we | :20:27. | :20:30. | |
actually need to see the world as they see it. I think, as usual, she | :20:31. | :20:36. | |
makes an excellent point and yes, we need to focus upon not people with | :20:37. | :20:42. | |
autistic spectrum disorders and their difficulties, but their full | :20:43. | :20:47. | |
potential and indeed have greater awareness of the world as they see | :20:48. | :20:53. | |
it themselves. Research indicates that 66% of autistic people and 60% | :20:54. | :20:58. | |
of the families have reported feeling socially isolated. 70% of | :20:59. | :21:03. | |
them are reported to have mental health disorders, such as anxiety or | :21:04. | :21:08. | |
depression and autistic adults have also been reported to be nine times | :21:09. | :21:13. | |
more likely to die from suicide. There is a clear need, I feel, to | :21:14. | :21:21. | |
dress mental health difficulties. One of my constituents who contact | :21:22. | :21:26. | |
me also advised that they too much information video and campaign which | :21:27. | :21:30. | |
must be commended had really resonated with her. She has an | :21:31. | :21:34. | |
eight-year-old daughter who has autism and she shared with me some | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
of her personal experiences. Her daughter is very vulnerable and | :21:40. | :21:43. | |
sensitive to everyday sights, sounds, touch and smells. This | :21:44. | :21:49. | |
causes her anxiety, panic, obsessive worries and despair. She cannot cope | :21:50. | :21:54. | |
with changes to her environment and she is prone to becoming very | :21:55. | :21:59. | |
distressed when in public. As a result, she has experienced negative | :22:00. | :22:04. | |
community responses and also from her peers. Her reaction has been a | :22:05. | :22:10. | |
reluctance to go back to school and withdraw from her extracurricular | :22:11. | :22:13. | |
activities which sadly means she is at risk of becoming further | :22:14. | :22:16. | |
isolated. It is clear from this story, which was common among those | :22:17. | :22:21. | |
who have contacted me, that we all need to do more in many realms. I | :22:22. | :22:29. | |
also recently attended a local school within my constituency where | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
it was highlighted to me issues with a lack of understanding amongst | :22:35. | :22:38. | |
peers and their parents about pupils with autism. The headteacher is now | :22:39. | :22:41. | |
engaged in a very good works to increase understanding through | :22:42. | :22:48. | |
planned awareness sessions. This is a fantastic local development and I | :22:49. | :22:52. | |
commend her on this, but again, it highlights teacher training and | :22:53. | :22:57. | |
awareness in schools is key. This also been touched on about raising | :22:58. | :23:03. | |
awareness and understanding amongst employers to support people with | :23:04. | :23:07. | |
autism into employment. Having a job is about earning a living, but also | :23:08. | :23:11. | |
it contributes to psychological well being. It can provide people with a | :23:12. | :23:17. | |
sense of belonging and purpose and bold confidence and self-esteem. The | :23:18. | :23:23. | |
autism employment gap is even bigger than the general disability | :23:24. | :23:27. | |
employment gap. Only 15% of autistic adults in the UK are actually in | :23:28. | :23:33. | |
full-time work. The Association of advisory services has also reported | :23:34. | :23:39. | |
that 26% of graduates are unemployed. Mainstream employment | :23:40. | :23:45. | |
programmes currently only offer -- are failing those with autism, | :23:46. | :23:48. | |
failing to capitalise on their potential. I urge that the Minister | :23:49. | :23:54. | |
would ensure appropriate support for people with autism and this will be | :23:55. | :23:58. | |
an issue covered by the proposals in the disability employment white | :23:59. | :24:08. | |
paper. In 2011, the SNMP launched the Scottish strategy for autism, | :24:09. | :24:10. | |
declaring that it was a national priority. This attempts to tie and | :24:11. | :24:18. | |
approved diagnosis and create consistent service standards. It | :24:19. | :24:22. | |
also helped to establish one-stop shops. This is an issue that must | :24:23. | :24:26. | |
continue to be supported and I offer my full cooperation and involvement | :24:27. | :24:32. | |
with the honourable member from Motherwell to save our local | :24:33. | :24:37. | |
one-stop shop. In concluding, we all need to be champions of autism. I | :24:38. | :24:40. | |
would ask the Minister to support and awareness campaign, promote | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
training for teachers and local authority staff, tackle issues in | :24:46. | :24:51. | |
the disability employment paper, ensure more clinicians are trained | :24:52. | :24:54. | |
and consider waiting time guidelines will stop society cannot continue to | :24:55. | :25:00. | |
fail people with autistic spectrum disorder, so let us do all we can | :25:01. | :25:07. | |
together to ensure that we succeed. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker and | :25:08. | :25:14. | |
it is a pleasure to be in this debate and it has been a fantastic | :25:15. | :25:18. | |
one. I have been here for all of it and would particularly like to thank | :25:19. | :25:21. | |
my honourable friend is for Birmingham and Yardley and for the | :25:22. | :25:28. | |
amazingly personal speeches which I think have really brought it home to | :25:29. | :25:32. | |
everybody what it is like being the parent of an autistic child and I | :25:33. | :25:35. | |
would like to find them both for that. It would be remiss of me not | :25:36. | :25:43. | |
to thank the right honourable member for Chesham and Amersham for | :25:44. | :25:46. | |
securing this debate and all the brilliant work she has done. She | :25:47. | :25:53. | |
indicating I should get on I will. I could not help but compared autism, | :25:54. | :25:58. | |
the incidence of autism, with incidents of dementia. And the | :25:59. | :26:03. | |
figures are very similar. There are an estimated eight and a thousand | :26:04. | :26:06. | |
people living with dementia in the UK compared with an | :26:07. | :26:13. | |
Whilst I would in no way wish to play one-off against the other, I | :26:14. | :26:20. | |
think it is significant that the government spend on autism awareness | :26:21. | :26:25. | |
is ?325,000, whilst the spend on dementia awareness is significantly | :26:26. | :26:32. | |
more. The spend on dementia awareness is ?2.3 million. Think | :26:33. | :26:39. | |
that is quite significant. I think the National Autistic Society have | :26:40. | :26:43. | |
done fantastic work raising awareness about autism and I want to | :26:44. | :26:48. | |
pay tribute to them. I welcomed, as many honourable members have done, | :26:49. | :26:53. | |
the too much information campaign. Many members have mentioned about | :26:54. | :26:57. | |
diagnostic waiting times. I feel that is an important part of dealing | :26:58. | :27:04. | |
with autism. The diagnosis is really important. It helps people take | :27:05. | :27:09. | |
control of their lives, helping to unlock barriers to essential support | :27:10. | :27:14. | |
and services and also enables families to better understand their | :27:15. | :27:19. | |
child and provide an explanation for many years of feeling different. And | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
we've talked about how long adults and children have to wait for | :27:25. | :27:32. | |
diagnosis, and the quality standard is clear, that once referred people | :27:33. | :27:36. | |
should wait no more than three months before having their first | :27:37. | :27:40. | |
diagnostic appointment. This is clearly not been consistently met | :27:41. | :27:44. | |
across the country. The National Autistic Society calls on the | :27:45. | :27:48. | |
government and NHS England to prioritise reducing waiting times | :27:49. | :27:53. | |
for autism diagnoses and this would also help the NHS regarding mental | :27:54. | :28:02. | |
illness. I would like to ask the Minister if he will pass NHS England | :28:03. | :28:08. | |
with monitoring waiting times for each CCG drip. I would like to touch | :28:09. | :28:17. | |
a little on teacher training, although much of what I wanted to | :28:18. | :28:23. | |
say has been said. The vast majority of autistic children, over 70%, are | :28:24. | :28:28. | |
in mainstream education, meaning every teacher is likely to have | :28:29. | :28:32. | |
children with autism in their classes throughout their career. I | :28:33. | :28:42. | |
want to quote the constituent of mine who said my son attends | :28:43. | :28:46. | |
mainstream secondary school. Although he has a certain level of | :28:47. | :28:50. | |
good support, there are a number of teachers who do not get him. Every | :28:51. | :28:56. | |
child on the spectrum is different and an hour's a S D training does | :28:57. | :29:03. | |
not give people the training they need. Is now rule book to help them | :29:04. | :29:17. | |
understand sensory issues. I would like to support calls for autism | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
awareness training to be included in new teacher training framework. I | :29:23. | :29:35. | |
want to refer to to an issue in my neighbouring constituency. I was | :29:36. | :29:44. | |
pleased to see this initiative. The manager of the store said he wanted | :29:45. | :29:49. | |
to help after seeing a boy with autism struggle to cope in the shop. | :29:50. | :29:57. | |
The store will open one hour early with no electronic distractions. The | :29:58. | :30:01. | |
public address system will not be used. It will be open to help | :30:02. | :30:06. | |
autistic and disabled shoppers. I think I may well go there myself. | :30:07. | :30:16. | |
Thank you. I would like to congratulate the honourable lady for | :30:17. | :30:21. | |
bringing this debate forward. Like others, I want to add the | :30:22. | :30:33. | |
perspective of a parent of a child with autism to this debate. My elder | :30:34. | :30:42. | |
starter has learning difficulties. I went to the launch of the booklet | :30:43. | :30:46. | |
too much information. I recognise much of what is in there. There are | :30:47. | :30:52. | |
telling statistics on the second page. 87% of families living with | :30:53. | :31:02. | |
autism see people steer at their child's behaviour. I have | :31:03. | :31:06. | |
experienced this. I develop a thick skin. One parent said the worst | :31:07. | :31:12. | |
thing she found was that people who she knew and spoke to regularly | :31:13. | :31:18. | |
would ignore her when he met her with her autistic son. How hurtful | :31:19. | :31:22. | |
can that be? One of my constituents contacted me ahead of this debate | :31:23. | :31:27. | |
and asked me to say something about her experience. She said to me, I | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
have two children with autism who find going out overwhelming. I have | :31:32. | :31:36. | |
one that will try and hide and the other who will show, become | :31:37. | :31:41. | |
aggressive or laugh hysterically. We are stared at by the public and | :31:42. | :31:46. | |
comments are made about my ability to parent or that my children are | :31:47. | :31:54. | |
spoiled. My eldest is aware of these comments and it causes her | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
psychological distress. As parents, we find different strategies to deal | :32:00. | :32:05. | |
with behaviour. Our daughter was and still is fascinated by Disney | :32:06. | :32:10. | |
cartoons. 20 was younger her favourite was Cinderella, especially | :32:11. | :32:19. | |
the nice. She had soft toys from the Disney store and she took them | :32:20. | :32:23. | |
everywhere. We took her to Disneyland in Paris. Cinderella was | :32:24. | :32:29. | |
out and about. We went to meet her friends. But the mice she met were | :32:30. | :32:32. | |
not the small characters she expected. They were bigger than her. | :32:33. | :32:37. | |
She simply could not cope with that. It was not what she had expected. | :32:38. | :32:41. | |
Like other families, we spent the rest of the holiday checking where | :32:42. | :32:52. | |
the characters would be so that we could avoid meeting them. Many | :32:53. | :33:01. | |
places have face painting for children. Our daughter cannot | :33:02. | :33:06. | |
comprehend when children have their face painted to look like a tiger. | :33:07. | :33:11. | |
She will freak out if she sees it. We have to carefully avoid taking | :33:12. | :33:16. | |
her to such events. She still loves her cartoons and Thomas the Tank | :33:17. | :33:24. | |
Engine which she watches on video so she can pause and rewind sections | :33:25. | :33:28. | |
which appeal to our. After 20 years of this, I could cheerfully strangle | :33:29. | :33:35. | |
the fat controller. I also live in fear of the day in which the video | :33:36. | :33:42. | |
machine finally gives up the ghost. We are lucky. We live in a small | :33:43. | :33:49. | |
town and most people now are. Our daughter is well-known in the local | :33:50. | :33:54. | |
shops and in the charity shops where she looks for videos. She has | :33:55. | :34:00. | |
accepted. Frankly nobody bats an eyelid to her sometimes seemingly | :34:01. | :34:06. | |
odd behaviour. Like many autistic people, she needs the comfort of | :34:07. | :34:11. | |
routine. When we go shopping, we go in a specific order. It might not be | :34:12. | :34:16. | |
logical to anyone else, but that is the order in which it must be done. | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
If you are going to do something different from her usual routine, we | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
need to lay the groundwork well in advance. Explained what we are | :34:25. | :34:30. | |
doing, when and why. Let her think it through, mull it over for some | :34:31. | :34:35. | |
time, discuss the implications with and sometimes we managed to do it. I | :34:36. | :34:42. | |
am conscious that perhaps this all sounds a little depressing. As with | :34:43. | :34:47. | |
any child, there are joys as well as challenges. My daughter's school | :34:48. | :34:54. | |
took her to riding for the disabled. Neither I nor my wife had any | :34:55. | :34:58. | |
background with horses, but she was captivated and formed a real bond | :34:59. | :35:04. | |
with the horse. It was joyful to see her on a horse, concentrating and | :35:05. | :35:13. | |
following instructions. Being very much in charge. On one occasion we | :35:14. | :35:24. | |
went to the stable and find that she was taking stones out of the | :35:25. | :35:30. | |
horseshoe. Back in the 1980s, when we first faced this, things were | :35:31. | :35:35. | |
very different. I was a practising solicitor at the time. My wife was | :35:36. | :35:45. | |
teaching children with special needs. We had difficulty negotiating | :35:46. | :35:49. | |
the system and getting suitable education. We needed a record of | :35:50. | :35:54. | |
needs which was the passport to getting educational resources | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
required. We faced reluctance from professionals to give a clear | :36:00. | :36:02. | |
diagnosis of what was wrong with our daughter. From an education | :36:03. | :36:07. | |
department which said I child should not be labelled, the cynic in me | :36:08. | :36:18. | |
wonders if that was because once it had been recognised facilities and | :36:19. | :36:21. | |
costs needed to be put in place. Then we needed to find a suitable | :36:22. | :36:27. | |
school. We looked at many before we find one we felt offered a way | :36:28. | :36:32. | |
forward. It was not within our local authority area. We had to negotiate | :36:33. | :36:37. | |
around that to ensure funding was available. A deal was done that | :36:38. | :36:41. | |
involved are arranging transport to the school ourselves. That school | :36:42. | :36:47. | |
made a great difference to her. They had an excellent speech therapist. | :36:48. | :36:52. | |
It was a small school with other children with special needs. She | :36:53. | :36:57. | |
flourished. They got her into horse riding. Are things better today? | :36:58. | :37:05. | |
Yes, I think there are. But they are not perfect. A huge amount requires | :37:06. | :37:12. | |
to be done. In Scotland, the Scottish Government have strategy | :37:13. | :37:15. | |
for autism, a real attempt to bring together services to assist people. | :37:16. | :37:22. | |
It is not just in the public sector. In Arbroath we have a fantastic | :37:23. | :37:30. | |
community dentist. We had great difficulty in getting anyone to look | :37:31. | :37:37. | |
at our daughter's teeth. This dentist has been trained in dental | :37:38. | :37:45. | |
care for artistic people. By taking her gradually to the surgery, first | :37:46. | :37:51. | |
to the waiting room and gradually onwards, she got to look at her | :37:52. | :37:59. | |
teeth which I frankly find. That was something brought forward recently. | :38:00. | :38:04. | |
It is not just in the public sector. Aberdeen airport introduced a | :38:05. | :38:07. | |
similar scheme to let autistic people visit the airport and get | :38:08. | :38:11. | |
used to it before their first flight. Cinemas and theatres put on | :38:12. | :38:17. | |
special those where the sound is lowered and lighting is increased. | :38:18. | :38:24. | |
But difficulties remain. Many others have spoken of these. In my | :38:25. | :38:30. | |
experience, the transition from education to after education is very | :38:31. | :38:36. | |
difficult. There are often not many facilities for artistic people. In | :38:37. | :38:42. | |
rural areas, it can be difficult to find somewhere to move onto | :38:43. | :38:48. | |
after-school. There are difficulties regarding the future. When you get | :38:49. | :38:54. | |
to a forts begin to turn to what happens when the Aragon are are no | :38:55. | :39:01. | |
longer able? My daughter will never be able to live an independent life. | :39:02. | :39:06. | |
That is something all authorities need to look at and consider a groin | :39:07. | :39:13. | |
problem. If there is one thing I would ask those watching or reading | :39:14. | :39:17. | |
this debate to take away from it, it is to get hold of this excellent | :39:18. | :39:23. | |
booklet from the National artistic society. Next time they see a child | :39:24. | :39:29. | |
being loud or inappropriate, or a parent having difficulty controlling | :39:30. | :39:33. | |
a child, do not assume it is bad parenting or bad behaviour. | :39:34. | :39:39. | |
Something else may be going on. Think it could well be autism. Thank | :39:40. | :39:46. | |
you. I would like to congratulate the right honourable member and | :39:47. | :39:57. | |
other sponsors, for ensuring the House can discuss this important | :39:58. | :40:02. | |
issue. I would like to echo the remark made previously. We have had | :40:03. | :40:07. | |
many excellent contributions today. I would like to thank those who have | :40:08. | :40:16. | |
shared their experience as parents. I welcome and support one of the | :40:17. | :40:21. | |
Central calls in the motion for an enhanced awareness campaign. Raising | :40:22. | :40:26. | |
public understanding would break down some stigma, tackle prejudices | :40:27. | :40:32. | |
and help explain the conditions to those who remain unaware of the | :40:33. | :40:37. | |
realities. Many charities work in this field. They fight for people | :40:38. | :40:47. | |
with autism and their families. Campaigning for proper diagnosis, | :40:48. | :40:51. | |
decent treatment, social acceptance and dignified lives for people with | :40:52. | :40:55. | |
autism. I commend the organisations and campaigns to raise awareness. | :40:56. | :41:07. | |
The National Autistic Society has brought some important survey | :41:08. | :41:13. | |
evidence to our survey. We have already heard it but it is worth | :41:14. | :41:17. | |
reiterating. Whilst almost all of the country have heard about autism, | :41:18. | :41:23. | |
just 16% has any real understanding of the condition and this reveals a | :41:24. | :41:28. | |
huge gulf between awareness and understanding, which is why a | :41:29. | :41:32. | |
national campaign to develop better awareness of the realities of autism | :41:33. | :41:36. | |
would be a welcome development. It should be led by and involves fully | :41:37. | :41:39. | |
people with autism and their families so that the campaign is | :41:40. | :41:43. | |
authentic and focused on issues that really matter. Research by ambitious | :41:44. | :41:49. | |
for autism highlights two important audiences. Teachers in particular. | :41:50. | :41:57. | |
Because 40% of teachers say they lack the knowledge they need. And | :41:58. | :42:03. | |
employers and job centres. Because while 99% of young people with | :42:04. | :42:09. | |
autism say that they want to work, only 15% of adults with autism are | :42:10. | :42:14. | |
in employment. It is clear that people with autism and their | :42:15. | :42:17. | |
families face terrible prejudice and stigma. National survey figures show | :42:18. | :42:24. | |
that too many people and their families feel socially isolated, | :42:25. | :42:27. | |
don't go out because they are worried about how the public will | :42:28. | :42:32. | |
react to their autism. As my right honourable friend shared, people | :42:33. | :42:43. | |
don't understand what an abdab is. People have been asked to leave | :42:44. | :42:48. | |
faces. It is a condition which means people have difficulty interpreting | :42:49. | :42:55. | |
the world around them. This condition is compounded by the | :42:56. | :42:58. | |
reactions of people around them. It is obvious we are a long way from | :42:59. | :43:02. | |
public places being safe spaces for people with autism. I welcome the | :43:03. | :43:09. | |
fact that Liverpool has launched a bid to become the first autism | :43:10. | :43:12. | |
friendly city but we need to become a autism friendly nation. When the | :43:13. | :43:22. | |
minister responds, I note that you said Manchester. I hope the minister | :43:23. | :43:29. | |
will commit to supporting the autism friendly awards to ensure that | :43:30. | :43:32. | |
public buildings and spaces are autism friendly. I'm pleased that | :43:33. | :43:37. | |
the House of Commons has started work on this earlier in the year and | :43:38. | :43:40. | |
I hope we can make progress to make sure that all workplace via comes an | :43:41. | :43:51. | |
autism friendly place of work. We have heard about the challenges | :43:52. | :43:53. | |
related to the Department for health. I would like to ask the | :43:54. | :44:00. | |
Minister if he can tell us what departments beyond the Department of | :44:01. | :44:07. | |
Health are doing to help with autism. And what commitments he will | :44:08. | :44:12. | |
make today to ensure they do. If I could turn to the second substantive | :44:13. | :44:15. | |
point of the motion concerning the length of time it takes to diagnose | :44:16. | :44:20. | |
someone, it has been raised by so many honourable members on all sides | :44:21. | :44:25. | |
of the house today. Autism requires an early diagnosis. Individuals with | :44:26. | :44:30. | |
autism and their families are proper supported. As we have heard adults | :44:31. | :44:35. | |
are having to wait more than two years for a diagnosis and with | :44:36. | :44:39. | |
children in the figure now stands at 3.6 years. On my weekly visits | :44:40. | :44:42. | |
across the country I hear many of the stories that have been echoed in | :44:43. | :44:47. | |
the chamber today. In my own city of Liverpool there are no fewer than | :44:48. | :44:51. | |
700 families waiting for an assessment. It's totally | :44:52. | :44:54. | |
unacceptable, it is far too long. It compounds the condition and makes | :44:55. | :44:59. | |
bad situation worse. I have heard first-hand from the Liverpool | :45:00. | :45:02. | |
autistic children's Alliance, parents group which meets in my | :45:03. | :45:05. | |
constituency, about the very specific concerns they have and | :45:06. | :45:10. | |
experience while waiting for diagnosis, particularly around | :45:11. | :45:14. | |
education. A point made today, not getting an education health and care | :45:15. | :45:18. | |
plan. The fact that those parents do not get access to support training | :45:19. | :45:21. | |
to help them support their children, and the challenges of appropriate | :45:22. | :45:27. | |
education. We've heard that the nice quality standard on autism makes it | :45:28. | :45:31. | |
clear that once referred, people should wait no longer than three | :45:32. | :45:34. | |
months before having their first diagnostic appointment. This | :45:35. | :45:38. | |
standard is clearly not being met across the country. It means that | :45:39. | :45:42. | |
thousands of people are being let down. Given the importance of prompt | :45:43. | :45:45. | |
and accurate diagnosis I hope the Minister can give us a commitment | :45:46. | :45:51. | |
ask and England to report autism diagnosis waiting times for every | :45:52. | :45:53. | |
single clinical commissioning group in the country. And to hold them to | :45:54. | :45:58. | |
account when the weights are too long. I hope the Minister will also | :45:59. | :46:03. | |
ensure that NHS England's new autism care pathway reduces those waiting | :46:04. | :46:12. | |
times. We know that research presented by Autistica that the | :46:13. | :46:17. | |
costs associated with autism are more than cancer, heart disease and | :46:18. | :46:21. | |
stroke combined, it is at least ?32 billion each year, including | :46:22. | :46:26. | |
expenditure on hospital services, home health care, special education, | :46:27. | :46:29. | |
respite care as well as lost earnings for people with autism and | :46:30. | :46:34. | |
their parents. But despite this cost the outcomes for people with autism | :46:35. | :46:39. | |
remain so poor. We had during the debate about comorbidities, people | :46:40. | :46:43. | |
experiencing extremely high rates of mental illness, physical health, | :46:44. | :46:47. | |
social exclusion, lack of employment and education opportunities and | :46:48. | :46:52. | |
tragically, early deaths. We've had a number of contributions discussing | :46:53. | :46:57. | |
and raising the issue about the amount spent on awareness. But | :46:58. | :47:01. | |
research also has the power to improve all these poor outcomes. | :47:02. | :47:05. | |
Research currently being spent on autism remains incredibly low, just | :47:06. | :47:10. | |
?3 million per year. And that is a paltry amount given the scale of the | :47:11. | :47:15. | |
challenge. I have been aware that mental illness is also a huge | :47:16. | :47:19. | |
challenge for people with autism. People with autism are far more | :47:20. | :47:22. | |
likely to have at least one mental health condition, and the burden of | :47:23. | :47:27. | |
anxiety and depression for people with autism is fast. We've heard | :47:28. | :47:31. | |
many personal accounts during the course of the debate today. I hope | :47:32. | :47:34. | |
the Minister will address them in his remarks. I just want to complete | :47:35. | :47:39. | |
on an important point about the fact that too many people with autism in | :47:40. | :47:43. | |
our country are dying too young. The figures are really startling if we | :47:44. | :47:46. | |
look at the research that was shared and was in the press only a few | :47:47. | :47:53. | |
months ago. People on autism Spectrum die 18 years earlier than | :47:54. | :47:57. | |
the general population. For autistic people with a learning disability | :47:58. | :48:00. | |
this figure rises to 30 years earlier. I cannot be acceptable in | :48:01. | :48:05. | |
2016 in our country, and we know that those with low abilities are at | :48:06. | :48:12. | |
risk of suicide in particular. The most disturbing statistics, people | :48:13. | :48:16. | |
with autism have a nine times higher risk of committing suicide. It is a | :48:17. | :48:22. | |
scandal. We have heard from other contributions, on this particularly | :48:23. | :48:27. | |
pertinent issue that needs addressing, particularly in light of | :48:28. | :48:30. | |
the fact that suicide prevention services are not providing autism | :48:31. | :48:37. | |
appropriate services. I know from listening and hearing | :48:38. | :48:39. | |
representations from many autism organisations that phone lines in | :48:40. | :48:43. | |
particular for people that might be having suicidal thoughts are not | :48:44. | :48:47. | |
appropriate for somebody with autism. I hope the Minister will | :48:48. | :48:50. | |
address this issue around suicide prevention strategies. I welcome | :48:51. | :48:56. | |
this debate, we've had many superb and thoughtful speeches today, and I | :48:57. | :48:59. | |
hope that the family is listening to our deliberations will feel we are | :49:00. | :49:02. | |
addressing their very many concerns and I look forward to the Minister's | :49:03. | :49:09. | |
response. Minister Alistair Burt. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. It | :49:10. | :49:14. | |
is just about 24 years since I first walked into Richmond house as | :49:15. | :49:20. | |
Parliamentary Undersecretary for Social Security and in that time | :49:21. | :49:24. | |
I've had the privilege of being involved in many debates which the | :49:25. | :49:33. | |
be like the common view outside the space that we even know nothing | :49:34. | :49:38. | |
about the subjects or we are not involved, or we don't care. I would | :49:39. | :49:42. | |
put this debate right up there with the very best that demonstrates that | :49:43. | :49:46. | |
none of those things are true. We've heard remarkable speeches. 25 | :49:47. | :49:52. | |
backbench contributions, which is a tribute both to colleagues and to | :49:53. | :49:55. | |
the chair for making sure that everything could be done. And it's | :49:56. | :50:01. | |
not possible, as indeed be honourable lady mentioned, to cover | :50:02. | :50:04. | |
everything, or even everyone's speech as we normally do, but the | :50:05. | :50:10. | |
contributions from the member for Berwick-upon-Tweed, Birmingham | :50:11. | :50:14. | |
Yardley, and Angus are particularly noteworthy. In giving a sense of | :50:15. | :50:22. | |
what it must be like. And we are indebted to all of you for being | :50:23. | :50:26. | |
able to say what you have said in the way that you have said it. | :50:27. | :50:30. | |
Couple of other speeches just mentioned, my right honourable | :50:31. | :50:36. | |
friend the member for North Norfolk. And again the moving story of the | :50:37. | :50:39. | |
nine-year-old boy that many of us heard that was very difficult. The | :50:40. | :50:44. | |
honourable member for Barrow in Furness talking about the media | :50:45. | :50:48. | |
response to this in both the programme that he mentioned and the | :50:49. | :50:51. | |
book, made a significant contribution. The honourable lady | :50:52. | :50:55. | |
and the member for dollar general Wood, can I thank her for the way in | :50:56. | :50:59. | |
which she brought the young man's case to me, and can assure her that | :51:00. | :51:05. | |
not all done and dusted yet. There are some very difficult aspects of | :51:06. | :51:08. | |
that case that worry me hugely. We will be talking about it further. I | :51:09. | :51:13. | |
made absolutely certain that the parents were involved in the case of | :51:14. | :51:20. | |
because the point makes that all too often people are not involved and | :51:21. | :51:24. | |
somehow excluded, that has got to stop. And it is absolutely vital as | :51:25. | :51:28. | |
far as I am concerned that people will be thoroughly engaged. I'd like | :51:29. | :51:33. | |
to start by commending the member who moved the motion, I can't | :51:34. | :51:40. | |
remember who it was, now. Can I add my congratulations to my right | :51:41. | :51:44. | |
honourable friend, not only in moving the debate but the | :51:45. | :51:47. | |
extraordinary work she has done over the years in relation to this. We | :51:48. | :51:52. | |
are really all indebted. In a recent adjournment debate I recognise the | :51:53. | :51:55. | |
need for a full discussion and mentioned that we could do with this | :51:56. | :51:58. | |
debate and I'm very grateful that we have that opportunity. By way of | :51:59. | :52:05. | |
preliminary mark I would like to say that a number of honourable members | :52:06. | :52:08. | |
have highlighted that the importance of recognising that autism is not a | :52:09. | :52:13. | |
person's defining characteristic, and many colleagues, in particular | :52:14. | :52:19. | |
those with their own children, made points about the qualities that | :52:20. | :52:22. | |
autistic people have and that's very important. In a couple of weeks' | :52:23. | :52:27. | |
time I'm going to hitch in Lego club which is a club started by parents | :52:28. | :52:34. | |
of children whose particular skills, were certainly in relation to | :52:35. | :52:37. | |
detail, the bits and pieces they do. I'm looking forward to going to see | :52:38. | :52:41. | |
that. It's very important we don't just find people in this particular | :52:42. | :52:47. | |
way. -- define people. The changes we make every day to attitudes, | :52:48. | :52:51. | |
services and facilities can mean the difference between ambition thwarted | :52:52. | :52:56. | |
an opportunity fulfilled. The best campaigns, those intended for the | :52:57. | :53:00. | |
benefit of the common good, are not made from some central point of | :53:01. | :53:04. | |
government, but by people on the ground. Autism awareness is being | :53:05. | :53:09. | |
addressed by the National Autistic Society in their excellent campaign | :53:10. | :53:12. | |
which was during world autism awareness week. I went to see not | :53:13. | :53:17. | |
only a little boy who was the subject of the film, but also his | :53:18. | :53:22. | |
own family, because there are often siblings of those who have autism | :53:23. | :53:26. | |
and they need to be cared for and valued as well. And sometimes there | :53:27. | :53:30. | |
can be issues. It was nice to see the whole family, and it was a | :53:31. | :53:34. | |
remarkable piece of film. I also want to highlight the work the | :53:35. | :53:37. | |
Department for health has taken forward with the large network of | :53:38. | :53:43. | |
autism charities. This encourages local organisations, services and | :53:44. | :53:46. | |
companies to become autism champions by training staff in autism | :53:47. | :53:49. | |
awareness. There is a lot more to do. I have no time to deal with all | :53:50. | :53:53. | |
the subjects raised but in accordance with what has become my | :53:54. | :53:59. | |
usual practice, because I seem to speak in fastly oversubscribed | :54:00. | :54:02. | |
debates, what I will do is pick out the questions that colleagues have | :54:03. | :54:05. | |
raised and answer them by letter. But if colleagues don't mind I will | :54:06. | :54:10. | |
answer them in the same letter and then put that letter in the library, | :54:11. | :54:13. | |
and then everyone will get a chance to see all the answers to the | :54:14. | :54:16. | |
various questions that are raised that my hard-working team have | :54:17. | :54:21. | |
noted. Let me say a couple of things in answer to the honourable lady and | :54:22. | :54:25. | |
to the key issues of what the government is doing. Something about | :54:26. | :54:34. | |
diagnosis, and something about data. Firstly, while it's easy sometimes | :54:35. | :54:38. | |
to be overwhelmed by what there is still to do, it's important to | :54:39. | :54:41. | |
recognise where we've come from, and many members made that point, and to | :54:42. | :54:45. | |
realise what actually we are doing on a day-to-day basis. Can I commend | :54:46. | :54:49. | |
to the house the programme report on think autism published in January | :54:50. | :54:54. | |
this year, the updated strategy for adults with autism in England. That | :54:55. | :54:59. | |
was put together by myself and my honourable friend the Minister 's | :55:00. | :55:02. | |
for disabled people, children and families, and for visits, probation, | :55:03. | :55:08. | |
rehabilitation and sentencing. It sets out progress against 33 of the | :55:09. | :55:12. | |
think autism actions and describes some work going on across | :55:13. | :55:17. | |
government. It involves education, employment and all sorts of things. | :55:18. | :55:21. | |
There are many things in there, some case studies, it demonstrates what's | :55:22. | :55:24. | |
been done in different places around the country. Can I come straight to | :55:25. | :55:29. | |
diagnosis, which has been so important to similar commentators? | :55:30. | :55:36. | |
Diagnosis is a real challenge for the NHS and its partners. There's no | :55:37. | :55:42. | |
doubt that in some parts of the country, the demand placed on | :55:43. | :55:44. | |
services, and it's often the sheer weight of numbers, means that they | :55:45. | :55:49. | |
can struggle to meet the standards set out by Nice. The mandate to NHS | :55:50. | :55:57. | |
England calls on the NHS to reduce health inequality for people with | :55:58. | :56:01. | |
autism in waiting too long for a diagnosis, it can be one of the | :56:02. | :56:04. | |
health inequalities that autistic people face. | :56:05. | :56:08. | |
The mandate has that. It is important it relates to autism. | :56:09. | :56:20. | |
Locally, CCGs and national NHS England are working down the guide | :56:21. | :56:24. | |
lines. The Department of Health, England has initiated a series of | :56:25. | :56:30. | |
visits, supported by the association of directors and adult services to | :56:31. | :56:36. | |
CCGs and local authorities. They aim to develop a strategic oversight of | :56:37. | :56:42. | |
the challenges in securing timely diagnosis over all ages and share | :56:43. | :56:48. | |
good practices. So looking at the times and doing something about it. | :56:49. | :56:52. | |
Sometimes it is an issue of capacity. Not just a question of | :56:53. | :56:55. | |
pulling a lever and the waiting times coming down. You have to set | :56:56. | :57:01. | |
the waiting times recognising the capacity to deal with them to make | :57:02. | :57:08. | |
sense. But NHS England are trying to go about to understand in order to | :57:09. | :57:12. | |
do something about it. They complete their work and report to the cross | :57:13. | :57:16. | |
government autism progress board in June. That report will be made | :57:17. | :57:20. | |
public. The Department of Health is funding the University of York to | :57:21. | :57:24. | |
report on the type of support available after a diagnosis. The | :57:25. | :57:29. | |
right honourable lady, the mover of the motion, asked that NHS England | :57:30. | :57:34. | |
should collect, publish and monitor information on how long people are | :57:35. | :57:38. | |
waiting for a diagnosis and how many are known to GPs to have autism and | :57:39. | :57:46. | |
NHS England to reflect national guidance that no-one waits longer | :57:47. | :57:50. | |
than three months between referral and being seen for a diagnosis. I | :57:51. | :57:56. | |
can assure her that I am as keen as they are to ensure that we collect | :57:57. | :58:01. | |
data and that data is made public. I am keen that NHS do collect what is | :58:02. | :58:08. | |
known locally and find a way to use that nationally. New data sets have | :58:09. | :58:13. | |
been put in place. It is important to acquire more data it is a matter | :58:14. | :58:18. | |
that I have been made aware of and I'm trying to do something about. If | :58:19. | :58:24. | |
I take one intervention. Will he consider setting a maximum | :58:25. | :58:28. | |
waiting time standard of three months to enter diagnosis? We all | :58:29. | :58:32. | |
know that once you set those, the system responds to it. We need that | :58:33. | :58:38. | |
for anything to change. Mr Deputy Speaker, I do understand | :58:39. | :58:42. | |
that but the capacity has to be there to do the job. It is a fine | :58:43. | :58:49. | |
balance. To set a waiting time amidst a token, knowing it cannot be | :58:50. | :58:53. | |
reached will not work. But the pressure on the system also to do | :58:54. | :58:58. | |
that. And the pressure on the system through collecting data and seeking | :58:59. | :59:02. | |
transparency has its effect. Now there is a real sense in the | :59:03. | :59:05. | |
department that this is something that we have to meet that challenge. | :59:06. | :59:13. | |
I'm looking at what data can best be collected and what data need not be | :59:14. | :59:17. | |
collected but handled locally and how to make the difference and how | :59:18. | :59:21. | |
it is transparent and made known. The Department of Health does not | :59:22. | :59:27. | |
set out how NHS England should not monitor waiting times. That is for | :59:28. | :59:32. | |
them to determine. But they have to demonstrate effectiveness in meeting | :59:33. | :59:37. | |
the mandate requirement through which we respect NHS England to | :59:38. | :59:50. | |
reduce the gap between meeting people with these problems. I am | :59:51. | :59:57. | |
interested in how NHS make sure that CCGs are doing their job. I suspect | :59:58. | :00:00. | |
that the members of the House are interested too. I can use that | :00:01. | :00:04. | |
concern and interest to ensure that the monitoring job is done and it is | :00:05. | :00:10. | |
transparent. In terms of GPs, which my right honourable friend | :00:11. | :00:14. | |
mentioned. GPs maintain a register of people with learning disabilities | :00:15. | :00:21. | |
that may include patient who have autism where diagnosed. As | :00:22. | :00:25. | |
mentioned, autism may not be the only condition that an individual | :00:26. | :00:33. | |
may have. The Royal College of General practitioner's autism | :00:34. | :00:39. | |
initiative is looking at the idea of an autism indicator in general | :00:40. | :00:42. | |
practice, that is working atten early stage. As recommended by the | :00:43. | :00:48. | |
independent health taskforce, there is a five year plan for the | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
development of mental health data to be published by the end of the year. | :00:53. | :00:59. | |
To set out future data, requirements and development for data that will | :01:00. | :01:06. | |
form data requirements for autism. I will make sure that you are kept | :01:07. | :01:12. | |
up-to-date with data as I am kept up-to-date with data requests. And | :01:13. | :01:20. | |
if I can conclude finally, this has been a terrific debate that has | :01:21. | :01:25. | |
coffered many different things but I wish to sum it up: Autism should not | :01:26. | :01:31. | |
be a barrier to enjoying the access afforded to others. | :01:32. | :01:41. | |
Many other charities and groups are doing great work helping us realise | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
that sometimes we are the barrier. Beyond legislation, it is only | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
through empathy and understanding that true progress can be maintained | :01:51. | :01:55. | |
and sustained. Everybody feels like it is a fight, I have heard that too | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
often as too many of us have. Everything that the department does | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
has to make that sense of fight that bitser until actually they don't | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
have to fight at all as it is taken for granted. Finally, think | :02:10. | :02:13. | |
differently about thinking differently. Absolutely. That is | :02:14. | :02:17. | |
what we should all do. I hope that is a message from a very consensual | :02:18. | :02:24. | |
House of Commons this afternoon. This has an instant effect. A green | :02:25. | :02:29. | |
card said: Thank you so much but please don't let it be kids, kids, | :02:30. | :02:35. | |
kids, don't forget the older adults. I think that the debate brought out | :02:36. | :02:39. | |
the best in Parliament across the board. There have been really | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
important contributions and some amazing personal testimony. From | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
members that are clearly concerned about what is happening to their | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
constituents and clearly concerned in this area. Progress has been | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
meat, no doubt but the theme has been not enough support and | :02:59. | :03:00. | |
understanding. That has come across too clearly. I want to thank all of | :03:01. | :03:05. | |
those colleagues that participated in the debate. I know that | :03:06. | :03:10. | |
Government is listening. I myself raised with the Cabinet Minister the | :03:11. | :03:16. | |
lack of people on the autistic spectrum put forward for public | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
appointments. Yesterday I had a letter that it was asked that the | :03:21. | :03:25. | |
centre of public appointments must work to improve divert and the | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
representation of autistic candidates, that means that the | :03:30. | :03:32. | |
people on the autism spectrum can achieve right to the top of our | :03:33. | :03:35. | |
system. I thank the minister for his | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
assurances on data collection. I am looking forward to reading his | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
letter he is placing to all of us in the library. I thank him for the | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
work he has done. But also, I thank him for the work that is yet to | :03:50. | :03:56. | |
come. The question is as on the order | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
paper as many of that opinion say aye. The contrary no. The ayes have | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
it. We now come to the debate on HRMC's | :04:06. | :04:13. | |
building future plan. Chris Steve reasons to move. | :04:14. | :04:19. | |
Thank you. I beg to move the motion as on the order paper. I should like | :04:20. | :04:25. | |
to draw your's and others attention to the entry in the register's | :04:26. | :04:34. | |
member of interest, the position's chair and as an activist trade | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
unionist. I like to thank you for the support | :04:40. | :04:45. | |
in securing the debate and to the back bencher's committee for | :04:46. | :04:48. | |
granting it. I hope you will allow to wish CAVHen | :04:49. | :04:54. | |
Thomas well on what is his last day of work in this place. He arrived in | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
the House in 1989, then becoming a door keeper in 2000 with nine years | :05:01. | :05:10. | |
in the Members' Lobby and seven years in the committee's Lobby. We | :05:11. | :05:17. | |
wish him well as he returns to his beloved island of St Helena. | :05:18. | :05:26. | |
HMRC published plans for the future structure of HMRC. Building our | :05:27. | :05:30. | |
future. It is important to note that the plans are issued by the | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
department rather than via a ministerial statement. This is | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
unsatisfactory, given the extent of the impact of the plan to include | :05:41. | :05:48. | |
the closure of 90% of its office network and staffing reductions of | :05:49. | :05:56. | |
thousands in post. The HMRC employs 1005 members of staff. At 2015, the | :05:57. | :06:06. | |
figure stands at almost 58,000, a 50% reduction almost. | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
There is a call to move to 13 reek that will hubs and four specialist | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
areas. They seek to make further job cuts to bring the head count down to | :06:16. | :06:21. | |
50,000, a further 8,000 lower. There is also suggested that the intention | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
is to reduce the staffing to had 1,000. | :06:26. | :06:30. | |
The timeline for the -- 41,000. The time line is that the first 21 | :06:31. | :06:36. | |
offices to be relosicated by March 2017. With the second phase of 37 | :06:37. | :06:42. | |
office closures to be taking place between June 2017 and March 2018. It | :06:43. | :06:49. | |
is proposed that HMRC will be based in 13 large offices with 95% of the | :06:50. | :06:58. | |
remaining site to work there. On the 16th of February, HMRC issued | :06:59. | :07:03. | |
redundancy notices to 152 members of staff. 60% of them are members of | :07:04. | :07:15. | |
the trade union. This is a large number at any one | :07:16. | :07:22. | |
instance. I am grateful for giving way on this from my honourable | :07:23. | :07:28. | |
friend. He is aware of the redundancy notices, imposed on mine | :07:29. | :07:35. | |
that work in the Glenrothes office scheduled to close in end of June | :07:36. | :07:41. | |
this year. When it was announced, the assurances were told me and what | :07:42. | :07:46. | |
happened in practice was that their members, many of whom had given 13 | :07:47. | :07:53. | |
and 14 years of service to the job were made to feel that they did not | :07:54. | :07:59. | |
matter. Employees were asked to accept relocations which would have | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
spent more time commuting than at work and employees with care | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
commitments expected to work more than 2 hours from home. It was even | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
claimed that the distances that they were told to troveel were taken in a | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
straight line, that was impossible to achieve unless they swam across | :08:19. | :08:25. | |
the Firth of Forth. Is there a reason to believe that employees of | :08:26. | :08:35. | |
the company should be treated any less than employees of the past? And | :08:36. | :08:44. | |
I think it is right to be concerned about some of the practices that we | :08:45. | :08:50. | |
are hearing about from trade union members based at HMRC and staff | :08:51. | :08:58. | |
members the at HMRC where they are pulled into meetings and been denied | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
representation. If there is a meeting between a manager and | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
employee that discusses future job prospects, I expect the trade union | :09:08. | :09:11. | |
to have access to the meetings, perhaps the minister can come on to | :09:12. | :09:17. | |
that. I will come into other areas. Also, I will be explaining the | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
travel times and some of the issues later on. But I give way. | :09:23. | :09:28. | |
I thank you giving way. It is my understanding from my experiences of | :09:29. | :09:32. | |
trade union rep that when redundancies are announced it is | :09:33. | :09:36. | |
compulsory to consult with the train unions and the members of staff are | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
entitled to have representation? That is my experience too. | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
When I was a trade union rep, I do agree that is a point that we do | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
need to address and I hope that the minister will do that. | :09:51. | :09:58. | |
I will give way. I think that database thank him for giving way. | :09:59. | :10:04. | |
Does he recognise that some people are receiving redundancies by | :10:05. | :10:08. | |
e-mail, not even face to face. That is interesting. | :10:09. | :10:14. | |
And yesterday giving the right to E ballot but it is OK for compulsory | :10:15. | :10:21. | |
redundancy notices to be issued by electronic means, perhaps the | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
Government will take that into account when discussing the Trade | :10:26. | :10:30. | |
Union Bill too. We believe that the HMRC and the Government want to send | :10:31. | :10:34. | |
a signal using this number of staff to demonstrate how they will go | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
about the matter of this closure arising from the building of the | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
future plan and we find it unacceptable and not acting in good | :10:44. | :10:49. | |
faith. I thank him for giving way. There is | :10:50. | :10:55. | |
a concern that a number of the arguments given in 2014 for Scotland | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
remaining in the union are beginning to unravel. We were told that | :11:00. | :11:05. | |
separation shipyards and the steel industry would be at risk and a | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
benefit of the union was the Civil Service employees that benefitted | :11:11. | :11:12. | |
from the United Kingdom and Scotland. Now it seems on all of the | :11:13. | :11:15. | |
points the case is unravelling? My honourable friend raises a fair | :11:16. | :11:27. | |
point. Some were told that officers would close if they were to vote for | :11:28. | :11:35. | |
independence. Workers in my experience came to an individual | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
choice in terms of the referendum. I don't think some of those scare | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
stories were accepted by many parts of the workforce. Again we see | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
rhetoric being used around the constitution that places will close, | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
and it's not an independent Scotland closing those offices, we find, it's | :11:54. | :11:58. | |
the Tory government. In preparing for today's debate I came across a | :11:59. | :12:02. | |
debate on the den Inland Revenue from 30 years ago in the other | :12:03. | :12:08. | |
place. Contribution from Baron Helton, a former chairman of the | :12:09. | :12:11. | |
Public Accounts Committee, chair of the Inland Revenue staff | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
Association. It stood out. Because what he said then was the human | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
factor was the ultimate right, and there is no substitute for it. No | :12:20. | :12:24. | |
computers will deal with taxpayers who require consideration and | :12:25. | :12:28. | |
attention, and to whom some measure of discretion or consideration may | :12:29. | :12:32. | |
be due. Those words are as appropriate today as they were in | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
1983. It would seem to me part of an ethos that all of us across parties | :12:38. | :12:43. | |
should endorse as part of public services. Sadly those behind HMRC's | :12:44. | :12:48. | |
building of the future are taking the wrecking ball to those | :12:49. | :12:51. | |
foundations, demolishing not just the future of HMRC buildings, but | :12:52. | :12:58. | |
hammering the staff, the taxpayer and the public. If they are allowed | :12:59. | :13:01. | |
to proceed, towns and cities across these isles will be at the forefront | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
of yet more ideological austerity. Hard-working and conscientious staff | :13:07. | :13:09. | |
will once again be expected to clean up the mess. And taxpayers will foot | :13:10. | :13:14. | |
the bill for the short-sightedness and short termism of successive | :13:15. | :13:17. | |
governments and Treasury 's ministers. HMRC are not building a | :13:18. | :13:23. | |
future, they are destroying it. 15 years ago Inland Revenue Customs and | :13:24. | :13:28. | |
Excise combined had 701 offices across the country. We've been asked | :13:29. | :13:33. | |
to accept today that the 13 centres proposed by HMRC could possibly | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
replicate that kind of number. Mr Deputy Speaker, if there is anyone | :13:39. | :13:41. | |
who believes that citizens of Penrith can better be served by a | :13:42. | :13:47. | |
super-centre in Manchester compared to Carlisle, or those important | :13:48. | :13:50. | |
reason from Edinburgh against Aberdeen, or the people of Penzance | :13:51. | :13:55. | |
from Bristol. We are asked to believe that the best interest of | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
the taxpayer and of society on a system that has staff in Glasgow | :14:01. | :14:05. | |
travelling to meet people who have travelled halfway. Sitting down at | :14:06. | :14:12. | |
some neutral location to discuss an individual, sensitive and | :14:13. | :14:16. | |
confidential tax affair. I am told one of these neutral locations is | :14:17. | :14:19. | |
what can only be described as a hut in a public park. I'm told it and if | :14:20. | :14:24. | |
I'd not heard this with my own ears I would not have believed it, that | :14:25. | :14:32. | |
HMRC staff are advised to take a long jumper and a bag of grapes to | :14:33. | :14:40. | |
these meetings. A look at the latest of satisfaction survey from HMRC | :14:41. | :14:43. | |
unfortunately makes it all too easy to believe. It would make some | :14:44. | :14:48. | |
informative bedtime reading for those behind this closure programme. | :14:49. | :14:51. | |
Fully 2% of staff strongly agree with the statement "I feel change is | :14:52. | :15:07. | |
due in HMRC, and when change is better". 6% would recommend it as a | :15:08. | :15:14. | |
place to work. 3% strongly agree that HMRC as a whole is managed | :15:15. | :15:19. | |
well. On measure after measure, time after time, staff at HMRC are | :15:20. | :15:23. | |
demoralised, demotivated and depressed. I ask honourable members, | :15:24. | :15:30. | |
what other outcome would come from the shattering of office after | :15:31. | :15:35. | |
office around the country? How infused would anyone be knowing that | :15:36. | :15:38. | |
in a matter of months their workplace is to be closed, and | :15:39. | :15:41. | |
yourself, your friends and colleagues are to be relocated miles | :15:42. | :15:45. | |
away? I rather suspect that those behind this scheme are to be told | :15:46. | :15:49. | |
tomorrow that their palatial offices are to be shuffled off from London | :15:50. | :15:54. | |
to Norwich, Peterborough, the staff in these offices, there may well be | :15:55. | :16:00. | |
a murmur or two of discontent escaping from their lips. Staff are | :16:01. | :16:06. | |
entitled to ask exactly why a government that invents catchphrase | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
after catchphrase for regional policy, from the northern powerhouse | :16:11. | :16:17. | |
to the Midlands engine is intent on such a centralised agenda. You may | :16:18. | :16:20. | |
well ask why they are being shunted into sidings rather than provided an | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
express service. Colleagues will later touch on the impact these | :16:26. | :16:28. | |
closures will have on their own constituencies so I will not dwell | :16:29. | :16:31. | |
for too long on the specific towns and cities that will be hit, and how | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
hard they will be hit. I will give way now. May I think the honourable | :16:36. | :16:42. | |
member for giving way. Believe me, it is not merely on a geographic | :16:43. | :16:46. | |
basis that there is a loss of service, but there are specific | :16:47. | :16:50. | |
services which are being abandoned. For example HMRC has announced | :16:51. | :16:53. | |
recently the abandonment of its valuation check service for SMEs, | :16:54. | :17:00. | |
completely compromising employee shared ownership schemes. I am aware | :17:01. | :17:06. | |
of that. I think my honourable friend for that intervention. But to | :17:07. | :17:11. | |
come back to the point. To see cities like Middlesbrough with the | :17:12. | :17:15. | |
third highest unemployment rate in England, with nearly 3000 already on | :17:16. | :17:18. | |
the dole, to see cities like Derrey with the highest unemployment rate | :17:19. | :17:23. | |
of any constituency, to see these places on a list guaranteed to | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
create job losses at HMRC and in the wider community, is to see a plan | :17:28. | :17:33. | |
that will, in the words of PCS, consciously increase unemployment in | :17:34. | :17:39. | |
areas. Mr Deputy Speaker, I suspect the words make way may come up in | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
the course of today's debate. I referred earlier to over 700 offices | :17:44. | :17:51. | |
formerly used by HMRC. They snapped up over 130 of these for their | :17:52. | :17:55. | |
offshore property portfolio. After loading themselves up with that in | :17:56. | :17:59. | |
order to front up their side of this rotting Sharad with the then | :18:00. | :18:04. | |
government, 84% with funding to acquire the contract. This shabby | :18:05. | :18:10. | |
deal with a shabby company comes to an end in 2021. For the privilege of | :18:11. | :18:15. | |
renting publicly built offices sold off for a song, HMRC will have the | :18:16. | :18:21. | |
right to occupy buildings with releases based on market terms after | :18:22. | :18:25. | |
that date. That is very generous of them. I commend a report into this | :18:26. | :18:34. | |
deal in 2009. It is redolent of phrases such as "The department has | :18:35. | :18:38. | |
not achieved value for money" or "The Department did not fully | :18:39. | :18:45. | |
appreciate the risks", and where it is achieving value for money. The | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
honourable member for East Hampshire admitted in this house last year | :18:50. | :18:52. | |
that the end life of these contracts are presented a one-off opportunity | :18:53. | :18:57. | |
to make this change to the estate footprint. This is part of the truth | :18:58. | :19:02. | |
behind these closures. PFI deal worth billions from the public purse | :19:03. | :19:06. | |
used to enrich the Bermuda dossier of a corporate entity, with the | :19:07. | :19:11. | |
public left with nothing at the end of 20 years except the right to sign | :19:12. | :19:15. | |
a commercial lease. I will end in the words of PCS member and in HMRC | :19:16. | :19:25. | |
member, one of my constituents "Whilst my branch welcomes the news | :19:26. | :19:28. | |
of a slight increase in jobs in Glasgow, we're proposing it if it | :19:29. | :19:35. | |
comes in the cost of jobs elsewhere. That is not a price worth paying for | :19:36. | :19:41. | |
the sake of a few extra jobs in Glasgow. If anyone should know about | :19:42. | :19:47. | |
prices, it is an employee of Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs. Sadly | :19:48. | :19:50. | |
it seems that their superiors know very little about value. It is a | :19:51. | :19:59. | |
pleasure to follow my honourable friend the member for Glasgow. Could | :20:00. | :20:04. | |
I suggest one thing, that we try to aim between five and six minutes to | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
give everybody the same amount of time. I assumed that was an | :20:09. | :20:12. | |
intervention so I get the extra minute. And I thank the honourable | :20:13. | :20:20. | |
member for securing the backbench debate and the backbench committee. | :20:21. | :20:25. | |
This is an important debate. Government can raise money in one of | :20:26. | :20:29. | |
three ways. Create it, borrow it, or raise taxes. The main purpose of | :20:30. | :20:35. | |
HMRC is subject to this debate, is to collect taxes. This enables the | :20:36. | :20:39. | |
government to take back what it has spent on public services. And I want | :20:40. | :20:45. | |
to focus on whether HMRC works, where it is going, and what can be | :20:46. | :20:49. | |
done to change it to make it more accountable. The governance | :20:50. | :20:54. | |
arrangements are quite bizarre for a democracy. Given its importance in | :20:55. | :21:00. | |
collecting taxes, it's incongruous that it is a non-ministerial | :21:01. | :21:04. | |
department. There is no minister to hold to account. On behalf of the | :21:05. | :21:10. | |
people who ostensibly it works for. It is governed by a board, by four | :21:11. | :21:14. | |
out of five non-execs from big business. No representation from the | :21:15. | :21:21. | |
PAYE taxpayer, of which there are 31 million, or even small businesses. | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
There appears to be no accountability, no acting in the | :21:26. | :21:28. | |
public interest. That needs to change. From the occupy movement at | :21:29. | :21:35. | |
Saint Pauls in 2011 to the Panama papers, the public is becoming more | :21:36. | :21:38. | |
aware of what happens to the tax people pay, or in fact don't pay. | :21:39. | :21:43. | |
The fact that after a few lunches, large corporations can get a light | :21:44. | :21:47. | |
touch treatment. Google paid the equivalent of 3% corporation tax. In | :21:48. | :21:54. | |
2011 Starbucks paid no corporation tax. I'm not sure if you know that | :21:55. | :21:58. | |
joke that when people went into Starbucks they wanted to raise the | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
awareness that Starbucks weren't paying tax they used to go in and | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
ask for a copy and they said as their name no tax so that when the | :22:07. | :22:13. | |
barrister came back with the Coffey, they said Coffey for no tax. That | :22:14. | :22:19. | |
has had a huge effect on making people aware that Starbucks were not | :22:20. | :22:22. | |
paying money. It has been pointed out by the International business | :22:23. | :22:27. | |
Times that Shell, British American Tobacco, Lloyds banking group, | :22:28. | :22:29. | |
Vodafone, all pay nothing in corporation tax. You will remember | :22:30. | :22:35. | |
the former head David harm and had ten bunches with KPMG, and they have | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
their tax liability reduced, and they even have a non-exec | :22:41. | :22:45. | |
representative on the board. So where is it going now? Where is HMRC | :22:46. | :22:51. | |
going? Is my honourable friend for Glasgow South West said, and I | :22:52. | :22:54. | |
concur with him, that document is called building our future. Its | :22:55. | :22:59. | |
subtitle should be tearing it down. The future of this country really | :23:00. | :23:03. | |
does depend on the amount of taxes that are put back in the economy | :23:04. | :23:07. | |
here in Britain. So instead of investing in people with skills, | :23:08. | :23:13. | |
expertise, a commitment to public service, institutional memory, HMRC | :23:14. | :23:19. | |
are reducing that capacity. In 2005 there were 105,000 members for HMRC, | :23:20. | :23:25. | |
and in 2016 there are only 58,000, they reduce of nearly 58%. Housing | :23:26. | :23:32. | |
officers to sell off the public estate to a developer, and then | :23:33. | :23:37. | |
replacing it with 30 regional tax centres, actually call centres. They | :23:38. | :23:43. | |
plan to save ?100 million, but they could recoup that if they closed the | :23:44. | :23:46. | |
tax gap. I don't know if you know, the tax gap is the difference | :23:47. | :23:52. | |
between the tax owed and tax collected, and that has amounted to | :23:53. | :23:58. | |
about ?25 billion, to ?34 billion. I think the current figure is about | :23:59. | :24:04. | |
?25 billion. That's a lot of money. But since 2010 only 11 people have | :24:05. | :24:08. | |
been prosecuted by HMRC despite being given a list of 3600 British | :24:09. | :24:12. | |
people who get their money in Switzerland. Revenue and Customs | :24:13. | :24:16. | |
haven't quite worked out that if you have more staff you can actually | :24:17. | :24:21. | |
collect more taxes and the more people you employ, the more tax they | :24:22. | :24:25. | |
pay and contribute to the economy. So no wonder the wealthy, that 1%, | :24:26. | :24:29. | |
are laughing all the way to the Cayman Islands. Mr Deputy Speaker, | :24:30. | :24:35. | |
the closure of the offices are having an important impact in my | :24:36. | :24:40. | |
constituency. They actively, directly affected. Walsall is having | :24:41. | :24:44. | |
to face closure of their HMRC office for the loss of 60 staff. One of my | :24:45. | :24:49. | |
constituents said she may not even qualify to get one of these | :24:50. | :24:52. | |
relocated jobs. And if they are lucky staff will have to go to | :24:53. | :24:55. | |
Birmingham, where actually the rents are high so it will be more | :24:56. | :24:59. | |
expensive, and more expensive. To travel up to Birmingham said they | :25:00. | :25:04. | |
will incur certain costs. My local people in Walsall South will have to | :25:05. | :25:07. | |
call a call centre rather than be the lucky ones to have face-to-face | :25:08. | :25:14. | |
contact like KPMG. The Public Accounts Committee in 2013 said that | :25:15. | :25:18. | |
the telephone services were absolutely abysmal. The Telegraph | :25:19. | :25:22. | |
reported that half of all calls to HMRC were not answered. I could have | :25:23. | :25:26. | |
the impact of millions of people paying the wrong amount of tax. This | :25:27. | :25:30. | |
week in Walsall we've had the news that the HSE might close. We have a | :25:31. | :25:35. | |
local BHS E. Who knows what is going to happen. The closure of HMRC, | :25:36. | :25:43. | |
nearly ?1 million is lost from the local economy and Walsall cannot | :25:44. | :25:47. | |
afford to lose that. TCS also say the plan is not to maximise tax | :25:48. | :25:53. | |
collection, to reduce spending. The opposite of what HMRC's main | :25:54. | :25:57. | |
objective should be. So what can be done? | :25:58. | :26:05. | |
The Joy Of Tax should be required reading for all of us. | :26:06. | :26:14. | |
It said you don't have to be an economist to understand economics. | :26:15. | :26:18. | |
Richard Murphy said HMRC should be a government department in its own | :26:19. | :26:23. | |
right subject to proper parliamentary scrutiny and | :26:24. | :26:28. | |
independent review. Tow have to retain independent Tax Offices with | :26:29. | :26:31. | |
local staff with information about the local economy. Top stop the | :26:32. | :26:38. | |
relocation, invest in staff. HMRC must reduce the tax gap, not the | :26:39. | :26:42. | |
workforce. Then stopping the outflow of capital and give back to the | :26:43. | :26:47. | |
public purse all it is owed. After all it is the government that puts | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
in investment in education, skills, infrastructure that enables | :26:53. | :26:54. | |
communities, companies and the workforce to thrive and to grow. | :26:55. | :27:03. | |
Thank you deputy speaker, I would like to thank my honourable friend | :27:04. | :27:08. | |
for Glasgow south-west for bringing the debate forwardment the issue of | :27:09. | :27:12. | |
tax avoidance has been highlighted in the House with the recent | :27:13. | :27:21. | |
publishment of the Panama papers. There are people shamefully | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
indicated, those who wish to keep their taxes off-shore a secret. | :27:27. | :27:30. | |
Let's be clear, individuals are using shell companies in places like | :27:31. | :27:36. | |
Panama in the British Virgin islands for one purpose only. To hide | :27:37. | :27:41. | |
financial assets from the tax authorities in the country where | :27:42. | :27:47. | |
they do business and then becoming difficult or impossible for tax | :27:48. | :27:51. | |
collection agencies such as HMRC to collect taxes on the wealth. | :27:52. | :27:59. | |
There is recruitment, training and experience needed by tax officials. | :28:00. | :28:03. | |
The very people that the government ensures has enough money to pay for | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
schools, hospitals and pensions. It is in this context that the | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
reorganisation of HMRC must be understood. Since the Government | :28:13. | :28:19. | |
came to power in 2010, it invested greater resources pursuing benefit | :28:20. | :28:22. | |
fraud, rather than going after the real villains, those who funnel | :28:23. | :28:25. | |
billions of pounds out of our country. Figures show that ten times | :28:26. | :28:30. | |
more government inspectors employed to investigate benefit misuse by the | :28:31. | :28:35. | |
poorer in society, than dealing with tax evasion by the wealthiest. The | :28:36. | :28:40. | |
committee of public accounts, reported that a meagre 35 wealthy | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
individuals are being investigated for tax fraud. That is slightly more | :28:46. | :28:51. | |
that can be bothered to turn up on the Government benches today. HMRC | :28:52. | :28:55. | |
did not know how many of these were being persecuted. We have to put it | :28:56. | :29:02. | |
into context, the country still presides over 34 billion this tax | :29:03. | :29:06. | |
gap. A recent discovery that the ownership of the leases of HMRC, I | :29:07. | :29:14. | |
refer to what was mentioned by the friend from Glasgow south-east, it | :29:15. | :29:20. | |
was transferred to a company in 2001, where is this based? The | :29:21. | :29:27. | |
Bahamas. That is right, the HMRC pays rent to a company registered in | :29:28. | :29:32. | |
a tax haven. The Government has scored a massive own goal. Who | :29:33. | :29:37. | |
stands to profit from the sale of HMRC lobingal offices, well, you | :29:38. | :29:41. | |
guessed it, this company again. Why not use the local council offices | :29:42. | :29:45. | |
that may be available, then profits that go from the rents go to the | :29:46. | :29:53. | |
Treasury. The UK Government tends to close 137 local HMRC offices in the | :29:54. | :29:57. | |
UK, two in my constituency of Dundee. | :29:58. | :30:02. | |
Where almost 800 staff are employed. This is driven by the government's | :30:03. | :30:08. | |
austerity obsession, which has seen budgets for government departments | :30:09. | :30:12. | |
and public bodies suffering swinging cuts. | :30:13. | :30:20. | |
And there are the cuts made in 2010. At this moment, half people work at | :30:21. | :30:26. | |
HMRC as there were in 2005. I have stood before here with regards to | :30:27. | :30:31. | |
HMRC to table a number of questions to receive a number of evasive | :30:32. | :30:35. | |
answers. Employees, some with over 30 years of skill and experience, | :30:36. | :30:40. | |
decades of loyal service are abandoned by an organisation to | :30:41. | :30:43. | |
which they dedicated their whole careers. The Caledonia House alone | :30:44. | :30:49. | |
in Dundee, there are ten couples working under the same roof, ten | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
couples that could see their entire income disappear. The proposals are | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
set to destroy the lives of families. | :30:58. | :31:06. | |
Thank you, my honourable friend is making a powerful point and speech | :31:07. | :31:13. | |
on the issue. My own constituents and others in West Lothian will be | :31:14. | :31:17. | |
moved. And in February, the number of redundancies was the biggest ever | :31:18. | :31:23. | |
in the Civil Service. People who are careers and disabilities are | :31:24. | :31:26. | |
affected by the compulsory redundancies and we should be doing | :31:27. | :31:30. | |
all we can to support them and stand up for their jobs. | :31:31. | :31:36. | |
And on that point. . And I agree at a time when it is in consultation, | :31:37. | :31:41. | |
the forced redundancies coming through it is a shame and an | :31:42. | :31:46. | |
embarrassment to all. Relocation to HMRC in Glasgow and | :31:47. | :31:51. | |
Edinburgh will mean job losses in Dundee and a loss of boots on the | :31:52. | :31:56. | |
ground around diminished capacity for contact in the north. Aberdeen | :31:57. | :32:04. | |
is one example of 300 billion out of oil resources in this government | :32:05. | :32:09. | |
without an office. And a group in Inverness will not have | :32:10. | :32:13. | |
representation, not to mention the rural areas between. | :32:14. | :32:18. | |
It is essential for HMRC to offer skill and trained staff in the local | :32:19. | :32:22. | |
areas. I know what a struggle it can be to get through to HMRC on the | :32:23. | :32:28. | |
phone, what sort of business will we come to expect? One of my colleagues | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
has been trying eight times to pay a bill that is due and cannot get | :32:34. | :32:39. | |
through. No-one argues that it makes sense to have huge hospitals in | :32:40. | :32:42. | |
Scotland, one in Edinburgh and Glasgow. If the NHS can maintain | :32:43. | :32:50. | |
recognised standards in thousand of clinics and in hospitals around the | :32:51. | :32:56. | |
country, surely it is possible for the HMRC to do is in a few hundred | :32:57. | :33:03. | |
offices around the country? The fact has been emphasised over and over | :33:04. | :33:07. | |
again in the House by colleagues from all parties. Sufficient | :33:08. | :33:11. | |
resources must be dedicated to HMRC so it can scroti flies sources of | :33:12. | :33:15. | |
income to ensure that the tax due is paid. | :33:16. | :33:19. | |
It is clear to do this, and we need HMRC offices all over the UK served | :33:20. | :33:26. | |
by experienced tax officers with local knowledge. Nobody would | :33:27. | :33:31. | |
ridicule the government for the Government to make a U-turn. HMRC is | :33:32. | :33:35. | |
a public service that pays for itself. Certainly it is less far | :33:36. | :33:42. | |
fetched or counterintuitive than the measures in place, measures designed | :33:43. | :33:47. | |
to boost yet again the income of companies based in off-shore tax | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
havens. Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker, I would | :33:53. | :33:57. | |
like to thank the honourable member for Glasgow south-west for bringing | :33:58. | :34:02. | |
this before us today. Mr Deputy Speaker, for my constituency in | :34:03. | :34:06. | |
Bootle, the proposals are little short of disastrous. I don't even | :34:07. | :34:11. | |
think that they are rosials, I fear that the Government has made up its | :34:12. | :34:16. | |
mind. But statement, the Government have simply washed their hands off | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
the matter on the grounds that the reorganisation of HMRC has nothing | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
to do with it. It wants us to believe that HMRC is a sort of | :34:25. | :34:29. | |
off-shore haven outside of the Government's control. I know that | :34:30. | :34:33. | |
HMRC collects taxes on behalf of the Government but that is stretching | :34:34. | :34:38. | |
the notion of a tax haven too far. Not only is the Government | :34:39. | :34:43. | |
disinterested in what it cannot control, it is disinterested in what | :34:44. | :34:48. | |
it can control. It has punt a fire wall between it and any decisions | :34:49. | :34:53. | |
about the reorganisation on the grounds at that it is not a matter | :34:54. | :35:00. | |
for it to interfere with. My member from Walsall alludes to that. That | :35:01. | :35:07. | |
the HMRC board should be allowed to get on things unbridled with | :35:08. | :35:11. | |
considerations that it may fall foul of. To put it another way, they have | :35:12. | :35:16. | |
reached for the Treasury's barge pole and are pushing this away from | :35:17. | :35:24. | |
themselves. I have used the word... Thank you for giving way. Would he | :35:25. | :35:29. | |
agree that it is rierny that the same time that the Government wants | :35:30. | :35:35. | |
to maintain an arm's length relationship between the government, | :35:36. | :35:39. | |
the client and the HMRC, and the relationship between HMRC and big | :35:40. | :35:45. | |
businesses, including those tax-dodging, sees that arm very, | :35:46. | :35:49. | |
very short indeed. It is spot on that point. That is what we need in | :35:50. | :35:54. | |
future to look at what those connections are. | :35:55. | :36:04. | |
I have used the word putilanalist to describe the actions of the | :36:05. | :36:07. | |
Government in the past, I think it reasonable to use it again to | :36:08. | :36:09. | |
describe this approach. It is an describe this approach. It is an | :36:10. | :36:15. | |
issue that affects thousands of dedicated Civil Serviceants up and | :36:16. | :36:17. | |
down the country but the Government's claim it is nothing to | :36:18. | :36:22. | |
do with it rings hollow. The Government feels not interfering in | :36:23. | :36:27. | |
the operation of HMRC is so far as the reorganisation is concerned is a | :36:28. | :36:33. | |
matter of its business it is a matter of principle is it should not | :36:34. | :36:39. | |
interfere, so in other words, member caps can get on and do what it wants | :36:40. | :36:44. | |
and government is silent on it, that is disingenuous. The Government is | :36:45. | :36:48. | |
ducking out of its responsibilities again. On the other hand, the | :36:49. | :36:55. | |
Government, as it sees fit, like any medieval baron wants to interfere on | :36:56. | :37:00. | |
all sorts of things that takes its fancy. Yesterday it decided that the | :37:01. | :37:07. | |
attempt to interfere in the running of strewns a mistake, to retreat to | :37:08. | :37:12. | |
save the Prime Minister's bacon, then to so as to get trade union | :37:13. | :37:17. | |
support. It also interferes in the running of | :37:18. | :37:22. | |
schools, housing and the school and who will run them and on a major | :37:23. | :37:29. | |
issue to do with tax raising in revenue in this country, Government | :37:30. | :37:33. | |
is silent that is for somebody else to deal with it. It is not | :37:34. | :37:38. | |
acceptable. So the it has nothing to do with us old chestnut will not | :37:39. | :37:47. | |
wash. Mr Speaker, HMRC has been sizeable in Bootle since the 1960s. | :37:48. | :37:52. | |
There are more than 3,000 staff employed within them. That number is | :37:53. | :37:59. | |
falling day by day. In 2005, HMRC employed 105,000 members that is | :38:00. | :38:03. | |
falling and falling and continues to do so. The so-called Building Our | :38:04. | :38:08. | |
Future, which is a misgnomer, if ever there was one, plans to see it | :38:09. | :38:14. | |
close almost 160 of the offices and to relocate them. I think that a | :38:15. | :38:22. | |
more accurate description is to demolish our future. HMRC has | :38:23. | :38:28. | |
criteria by which it chooses the offs to close. No account it taken | :38:29. | :38:35. | |
on the impact of the communities it affects like mine. The effects also | :38:36. | :38:40. | |
on the lobingal businesses who serve the offices. I had a meeting with | :38:41. | :38:46. | |
senior staff at HMRC of which I thank them for. However on the | :38:47. | :38:51. | |
whole, the criteria that they indicated used to inform the closure | :38:52. | :38:55. | |
decisions, it did not stand up to much scrutiny in relation to the | :38:56. | :39:01. | |
offices in my constituency. I use three examples. First, they talked | :39:02. | :39:08. | |
about the transport links needing to be available and rebust. The Bootle | :39:09. | :39:14. | |
office is three miles from the city centre, the new office is apparently | :39:15. | :39:22. | |
supposedly cited. I am not sure if it is available. Butele has | :39:23. | :39:28. | |
excellent bus links and there is a main bus interchange 200 yards from | :39:29. | :39:34. | |
one of the main offices and a few hundred from another. Both sites are | :39:35. | :39:39. | |
close to five stations on the northern and other lines. They have | :39:40. | :39:46. | |
excellent cross-city regional links no more than 15 minutes ride from | :39:47. | :39:51. | |
Lime Street Station. That is in the city centre, where apparently the | :39:52. | :39:55. | |
office is going to go. You get the point how close with are, yet the | :39:56. | :40:02. | |
Government are saying that transport links are essential, so they should | :40:03. | :40:09. | |
anybody the city centre. There is no discussion with the transport in | :40:10. | :40:14. | |
Merseyside or the Cheshire or others about the factor. The reason I | :40:15. | :40:21. | |
mention Cheshire and other authorities is because if you are | :40:22. | :40:26. | |
deciding on a substantial element of the decision which is on transport | :40:27. | :40:32. | |
links to get people in and out, amongst other things I have not time | :40:33. | :40:37. | |
to touch on, yet you have not discussed it with the transport | :40:38. | :40:41. | |
authorities of the area, tho throws into doubt the robustness of the | :40:42. | :40:44. | |
plan. Consultants were paid a huge amount of money for this. We should | :40:45. | :40:50. | |
get our money back from the consultants, as they pinched it from | :40:51. | :40:52. | |
the taxpayer. We will get everyone in with three | :40:53. | :41:03. | |
minutes each. I will stick to the five minutes. Can I thank the member | :41:04. | :41:07. | |
for Glasgow South West for bringing forward the debate. I hope the | :41:08. | :41:11. | |
intervention from his party colleague about Scottish | :41:12. | :41:15. | |
independence. He'll forgive me if I don't agree with him on that aspect. | :41:16. | :41:19. | |
Anyway, that's a debate for another day. The decision of government to | :41:20. | :41:26. | |
close HMRC offices is one of those decisions that is difficult to | :41:27. | :41:29. | |
follow the logic of, I do have to say. If we look at the issue in | :41:30. | :41:35. | |
Northern Ireland, their sits offices will be closed. Take my own | :41:36. | :41:47. | |
constituency, South Tyrone, the offices are in Enniskillen. For | :41:48. | :41:51. | |
anybody to think that Belfast is an easy location, or that people can | :41:52. | :41:54. | |
relocate from Enniskillen or surrounding areas, it is probably at | :41:55. | :41:59. | |
least an 80 mile journey to wear the office will be in Belfast, on some | :42:00. | :42:05. | |
occasions probably 100 mile journey. It is impractical and impossible for | :42:06. | :42:09. | |
relocation. I just can't follow the logic. Particularly given that | :42:10. | :42:15. | |
Northern Ireland is the one area of the United Kingdom with a land | :42:16. | :42:20. | |
border of another EU state where HMRC is vitally important, | :42:21. | :42:23. | |
especially in areas like Northern Ireland where we have a huge | :42:24. | :42:29. | |
business, illegal business, to be fair, around illegal fuel. The | :42:30. | :42:35. | |
smuggling of illegal fuel. That is a major aspect that I think will not | :42:36. | :42:42. | |
be dealt with just from one office. So we've got to look at this in a | :42:43. | :42:46. | |
more practical and sensible way. So the end result is a loss of jobs at | :42:47. | :42:51. | |
not only that, it is a loss of service to the community. And once | :42:52. | :42:58. | |
you look at the amount of smuggled and laundered fuel in Northern | :42:59. | :43:03. | |
Ireland, and HMRC has the lead on that, it is actually HMRC, so how | :43:04. | :43:09. | |
are they going to carry that out away from the actual border areas | :43:10. | :43:14. | |
where they are supposed to working? One other significant huge impact is | :43:15. | :43:19. | |
the loss, and I know some of these offices have already lost their help | :43:20. | :43:24. | |
desk, but that is a major blow to the communities. I will cite one | :43:25. | :43:31. | |
example. Around foster carers and kinship carers who now must register | :43:32. | :43:35. | |
self-employed. These people are providing a very vital service to | :43:36. | :43:39. | |
our community. They don't want to be tied up with form filling, with | :43:40. | :43:44. | |
filling in tax returns every year. They may have to pay an accountant. | :43:45. | :43:49. | |
Apologies to any accountancy but I don't have to tell you that prices. | :43:50. | :43:55. | |
These people just do not need that. Yes the service is available online. | :43:56. | :44:00. | |
Not everybody can use it online. And we hear about the telephone help | :44:01. | :44:05. | |
desk. I'm told by the Minister that the telephone communication service | :44:06. | :44:10. | |
for HMRC is an increasing choice for enquiries. Well why wouldn't it be, | :44:11. | :44:15. | |
if it's the only choice? I'm also told again by the Minister that HMRC | :44:16. | :44:20. | |
are improving the telephone service, and that they have answered 80% of | :44:21. | :44:24. | |
the telephone calls to them. Well what has happened to the other 20%, | :44:25. | :44:29. | |
I would like to know. I'm told again by the Minister that the average | :44:30. | :44:34. | |
queue time for telephone calls to be answered is 12 minutes. So I'm | :44:35. | :44:40. | |
guessing some people are waiting 20 minutes in the queue. Probably some | :44:41. | :44:44. | |
of those people have already hung up. I have to say, if that's the | :44:45. | :44:50. | |
best we can do for a front-line service, then it is extremely poor | :44:51. | :44:55. | |
and makes the argument for us here for our colleagues and myself that | :44:56. | :45:01. | |
the offices should be kept, and a front-line desks should be there to | :45:02. | :45:10. | |
help and support the community. I congratulate my honourable friend | :45:11. | :45:13. | |
the member for Glasgow South West and others who secured this debate. | :45:14. | :45:17. | |
I am proud to add my name to the motion. HMRC has been dismantling | :45:18. | :45:22. | |
its services in Wales for over 50 years. There were previously 21 tax | :45:23. | :45:27. | |
offices in towns and cities, it is now proposed there will only be one, | :45:28. | :45:33. | |
in south-east Wales. The office in my constituency is one of those | :45:34. | :45:36. | |
threatened by the latest round of closures. This is the home of the | :45:37. | :45:44. | |
tax office's Welsh language unit. It is well placed to attract and retain | :45:45. | :45:48. | |
fluent Welsh speaking staff and offers a naturally Welsh speaking | :45:49. | :45:54. | |
workplace. These service staff have to be close to the clients they are | :45:55. | :46:00. | |
visiting in their own homes. This service, the Welsh language unit, is | :46:01. | :46:05. | |
serving a region of Wales where demand for Welsh language services | :46:06. | :46:10. | |
is at its highest. I would urge every Welsh speaker to take | :46:11. | :46:12. | |
advantage of these services, even those people who lack confidence to | :46:13. | :46:17. | |
use the language to discuss financial matters, you can always | :46:18. | :46:21. | |
drop in English words. Not only is it good for the language, but | :46:22. | :46:27. | |
particularly because the staff are excellent at their job. Beyond their | :46:28. | :46:32. | |
limited Welsh language remit, that HMRC commitment falls short of the | :46:33. | :46:36. | |
statutory requirement to treat English and Welsh language as equal | :46:37. | :46:41. | |
in Wales. Particularly regarding opportunities for businesses and | :46:42. | :46:46. | |
charities such as chapels. And the proposal that the service could be | :46:47. | :46:49. | |
maintained just as well in Cardiff is, to be honest, to be questioned. | :46:50. | :46:59. | |
The county is home to 77,000 Welsh speakers, 65% of the population. | :47:00. | :47:03. | |
Cardiff has fewer than half that number of Welsh speakers and is a | :47:04. | :47:08. | |
capital city where the population is not so concentrated of those | :47:09. | :47:12. | |
speakers. HMRC is moving from the rural region where Welsh is the | :47:13. | :47:18. | |
language of everyday life to an urban centre 150 miles, four hours | :47:19. | :47:21. | |
Drive away, about as far from the great majority of this Welsh | :47:22. | :47:26. | |
speaking community as it is physically possible to go and still | :47:27. | :47:31. | |
be in Wales. If the office building itself is the problem, then I would | :47:32. | :47:36. | |
strongly urge the government to look at alternative sites in that area | :47:37. | :47:42. | |
and urge HMRC to do so. I have corresponded with the financial | :47:43. | :47:44. | |
Secretary of the Treasury on a number of occasions request in this | :47:45. | :47:50. | |
be done. Porthmadog county council has met the Parliamentary under | :47:51. | :47:57. | |
Secretary of State for earlier this year. Discussions have been held, | :47:58. | :48:04. | |
and I am, I hope, right to be quietly optimistic. The DWP office | :48:05. | :48:11. | |
in the same town is perfectly suitable to house the Porthmadog | :48:12. | :48:17. | |
HMRC staff, as is another nearby office. Both are excellent Welsh | :48:18. | :48:25. | |
language workplaces, ideally placed to attract Welsh speakers in the | :48:26. | :48:28. | |
areas where wealth is a community and professional language. This is | :48:29. | :48:32. | |
an important point. Although Cardiff would look to be an ideal centre for | :48:33. | :48:37. | |
Wales, if we want to have good staff who are used to working through the | :48:38. | :48:42. | |
medium of Welsh and want to work in Welsh speaking workplaces, this is | :48:43. | :48:44. | |
the ideal place to keep those experienced staff. Simply closing | :48:45. | :48:50. | |
these offices will be a body blow to devolve tax powers to Wales. On the | :48:51. | :48:54. | |
one hand the Tory government extols the virtue of Wales taking more | :48:55. | :48:59. | |
control over our taxes, something we welcome, just as we have always done | :49:00. | :49:02. | |
for years. On the other hand, the means of administering these powers | :49:03. | :49:09. | |
is being reduced. It should be subject to proper public and | :49:10. | :49:11. | |
parliamentary scrutiny and I welcome the debate today. But there are | :49:12. | :49:15. | |
specific issues unique to Wales which must be addressed before any | :49:16. | :49:19. | |
final decisions are reached. Firstly to recognise that increasing Wales's | :49:20. | :49:24. | |
fiscal powers will require increasing staff capacity as opposed | :49:25. | :49:28. | |
to moving jobs across the border, centralising in south-east Wales. | :49:29. | :49:32. | |
Secondly that an independent economic assessment of the impact of | :49:33. | :49:36. | |
moving the Welsh language unit from Porthmadog to Cardiff be undertaken. | :49:37. | :49:43. | |
Thirdly that HMRC works with the Welsh language commissioner to | :49:44. | :49:46. | |
undertake a language assessment of the impact of moving these jobs from | :49:47. | :49:49. | |
the Welsh speaking community in terms of the effect on the rights of | :49:50. | :49:55. | |
Welsh speaking taxpayers and stuff. And finally, importantly, that HMRC | :49:56. | :50:01. | |
officers consider other locations such as the Department for Work and | :50:02. | :50:05. | |
Pensions, in order to agree a cost-effective solution to retain | :50:06. | :50:10. | |
jobs in the area. I would urge this government to commit to | :50:11. | :50:15. | |
reconsidering the impact of HMRC proposals on its services in Wales, | :50:16. | :50:18. | |
to Welsh speakers, to the destination as a whole, and the | :50:19. | :50:23. | |
significance of well-paid public sector jobs to low-wage economy. I | :50:24. | :50:34. | |
am grateful to my honourable colleague for Glasgow South West for | :50:35. | :50:39. | |
securing this debate on HMRC's building our future plan and to the | :50:40. | :50:41. | |
backbench business committee for making it a success. My constituency | :50:42. | :50:49. | |
is home to one of Scotland's best tax offices, centre one. My hometown | :50:50. | :50:55. | |
of East Kilbride is synonymous with personal tax affairs. It is part of | :50:56. | :51:00. | |
the identity of East Kilbride. My own grandmother worked for the tax | :51:01. | :51:05. | |
office there 30 years ago. HMRC is a major employer, and the movement of | :51:06. | :51:11. | |
thousands of jobs from my town would be a massive blow to the local | :51:12. | :51:16. | |
economy. The planned closures of three sites which have been | :51:17. | :51:20. | |
announced have created anxiety and uncertainty, and only last month the | :51:21. | :51:26. | |
site was announced for closure by 2017. Centre one is proposed to | :51:27. | :51:38. | |
close by 2026. The closure is particularly distressing given the | :51:39. | :51:42. | |
speed of the announcement, and there are real fears the process of | :51:43. | :51:45. | |
closures may be sped up if lease terms cannot be agreed to what will | :51:46. | :51:50. | |
be the last remaining site in East Kilbride in 2026. Despite | :51:51. | :51:56. | |
reassurances from the government I have not been kept up-to-date with | :51:57. | :51:59. | |
the status of the lease negotiations which I would again request from the | :52:00. | :52:05. | |
Minister. Staff I have spoken to have voiced their concerns regarding | :52:06. | :52:09. | |
the closures. They worry about the impact on their ability to do their | :52:10. | :52:12. | |
jobs well. It is a further reduction in staff. They worry about | :52:13. | :52:17. | |
travelling to a new unknown site, and the difficulty in finding | :52:18. | :52:21. | |
suitable childcare given increased time away from home. They are | :52:22. | :52:25. | |
significantly concerned about the lack of consultation and the | :52:26. | :52:28. | |
proposed changes to the civil service compensation scheme if they | :52:29. | :52:34. | |
are to lose their jobs. Thousands of these staff both live and work in | :52:35. | :52:37. | |
East Kilbride and are integral to our economy. They spend money in | :52:38. | :52:40. | |
local shops on their lunch breaks and after work. Their families are | :52:41. | :52:46. | |
part of our community. In order to promote economic growth in my | :52:47. | :52:50. | |
constituency, we want to be in courage and companies and services | :52:51. | :52:55. | |
to relocate to East Kilbride, not to leave it. East Kilbride, he ever | :52:56. | :53:00. | |
business, is one of my main mottos. If the site is close, our local | :53:01. | :53:06. | |
economy is at risk. This must be understood by the government. A few | :53:07. | :53:10. | |
weeks ago I asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he would | :53:11. | :53:14. | |
conduct an impact assessment with regard to closures in my | :53:15. | :53:18. | |
constituency. He assured me that no action would be taken without full | :53:19. | :53:22. | |
consultation of all involved, but this does very little to allay the | :53:23. | :53:26. | |
fears of those impacted, or to give any hope that areas that would be | :53:27. | :53:29. | |
losing such vast workforces will be supported. We require a full impact | :53:30. | :53:36. | |
assessment. The staff at HMRC are specialists in their field and take | :53:37. | :53:41. | |
pride in their roles. This pigeon such as these have a detrimental | :53:42. | :53:44. | |
impact on morale, they create staff stress and anxiety. HMRC staff | :53:45. | :53:50. | |
should be supported to do the vitally important work of making | :53:51. | :53:55. | |
sure that tax income is maximised to pay for our essential services. Not | :53:56. | :53:59. | |
left to worry for their jobs and future. Whilst plans are put | :54:00. | :54:02. | |
together that jeopardise their ability to do these jobs well. | :54:03. | :54:10. | |
HMRC's building our future plan looks to uproot staff from | :54:11. | :54:12. | |
established bases and communities and centralise them in the already | :54:13. | :54:17. | |
well-equipped population centres around the country. The plan has | :54:18. | :54:20. | |
been subject to no robust parliamentary scrutiny or contents | :54:21. | :54:26. | |
of consultation. My constituency can ill afford such a blow. I urge the | :54:27. | :54:34. | |
Minister and HMRC to suspend this plan to work with the dedicated | :54:35. | :54:37. | |
staff at HMRC sites across the country to ensure any proposals | :54:38. | :54:44. | |
brought forward in the future that just the revenue needs of this | :54:45. | :54:48. | |
country, and to conduct impact assessments and engage in confidence | :54:49. | :54:53. | |
of consultation and scrutiny. To conclude, I would once again | :54:54. | :54:57. | |
paraphrase the words of Oscar Wilde. To lose 1's site would be | :54:58. | :55:03. | |
unfortunate. However, under this Conservative MPs, to lose two to | :55:04. | :55:07. | |
three sites in my constituency is nothing but extreme carelessness. | :55:08. | :55:15. | |
Thank you. Can I thank my honourable friend from Glasgow South West for | :55:16. | :55:18. | |
securing this debate. There have been plenty of thought for an robust | :55:19. | :55:25. | |
contributions so far. The members on the side of the house are doing | :55:26. | :55:31. | |
their best to organise the general principles behind the HMRC | :55:32. | :55:36. | |
principles. I think what shines through this debate is a frustration | :55:37. | :55:40. | |
that I share, what we need more than anything else is far more | :55:41. | :55:45. | |
information, far more attempts at justification, so that we can do our | :55:46. | :55:49. | |
job opening, which is thorough scrutiny of these proposals. Because | :55:50. | :55:57. | |
whatever view you take, these are radical proposals, as we've heard. | :55:58. | :56:02. | |
Thousands of jobs could be lost. An 83% cut in the number of HMRC | :56:03. | :56:07. | |
officers. This is not tinkering round the edges in any way, shape or | :56:08. | :56:12. | |
form. Of course it is not only right but absolutely imperative to ask | :56:13. | :56:16. | |
questions about how such cuts and closures will impact HMRC's ability | :56:17. | :56:21. | |
to collect taxes and tackle tax dodging, particularly at a time with | :56:22. | :56:26. | |
huge public concern on this issue. Of course it is right that we ask | :56:27. | :56:29. | |
about the consequences for towns and cities where tax offices are marked | :56:30. | :56:34. | |
for closures. It is absolutely right that we pose the questions that | :56:35. | :56:39. | |
hard-working, dedicated and expert staff in all of our constituencies | :56:40. | :56:43. | |
have raised. And perhaps the Minister will be able to answer some | :56:44. | :56:48. | |
of these questions today. But I cannot emphasise enough, debates on | :56:49. | :56:50. | |
their own will not be enough. What we need are those behind these | :56:51. | :56:54. | |
proposals coming here to explain directly to Parliament, allowing | :56:55. | :56:59. | |
members to get stuck into the nuts and bolts and get behind the | :57:00. | :57:02. | |
management-speak and buzzwords which are too often being passed off as | :57:03. | :57:05. | |
answers. Because if that doesn't happen then staff and taxpayers will | :57:06. | :57:10. | |
be left questioning whether it really is the case that HMRC is | :57:11. | :57:16. | |
building our future, or if instead this is a question of buildings | :57:17. | :57:22. | |
forcing the future. It has been pointed out already, all this takes | :57:23. | :57:25. | |
place in the context of the expiry of the extraordinary contracts that | :57:26. | :57:31. | |
were entered into back in 2001 when 600 or so properties were sold to | :57:32. | :57:37. | |
and then leased back PFI style by HMRC to an offshore company. So in | :57:38. | :57:42. | |
the absence of answers, many would conclude that this is more about | :57:43. | :57:46. | |
digging HMRC out of the hole they jumped into, in 2001, rather than | :57:47. | :57:52. | |
any sort of strategy. And that is the only conclusion open to us. | :57:53. | :57:56. | |
These questions that remain are many and varied but they get right down | :57:57. | :58:01. | |
to the basics. Why is it that 13 is the magic number? Whiteleas 13 | :58:02. | :58:07. | |
affable to 30 or 530? Why is it calculated that 1600, if that size | :58:08. | :58:16. | |
is perfectly efficient, why will offices within the range have two" | :58:17. | :58:21. | |
much does it take suitable account of expertise and local knowledge | :58:22. | :58:24. | |
that can be built up by having a presence across the country? For | :58:25. | :58:28. | |
example, Aberdeen and Inverness are experts in oil and fishing. Does it | :58:29. | :58:34. | |
take into account the expertise lost by employees unable to travel to new | :58:35. | :58:38. | |
locations? Brochures and press releases tell us savings of ?100 | :58:39. | :58:44. | |
million per year by 2025. We are told that moving more of HMRC's work | :58:45. | :58:48. | |
out of central London which has some of the worlds most expensive office | :58:49. | :58:53. | |
space allow substantial savings. How has that figure been calculated? | :58:54. | :58:58. | |
Ridiculously went HMRC does not know where the hubs will be. How has this | :58:59. | :59:05. | |
idea of moving out of city 's centre is being consistent with closing | :59:06. | :59:08. | |
offices in East Kilbride and centralising them in big city centre | :59:09. | :59:12. | |
sites in Glasgow and Edinburgh? Can we see the sums? My honourable | :59:13. | :59:19. | |
friend makes a very powerful point on that specific issue of | :59:20. | :59:23. | |
centralisation in my own constituency of Livingston, we have | :59:24. | :59:29. | |
seen virtually no work done on the impact of transport and travel, and | :59:30. | :59:34. | |
it is a relatively short distance, never mind the people in Dundee | :59:35. | :59:37. | |
expected to travel, and it is clear this isn't ill-conceived and ill | :59:38. | :59:39. | |
thought out proposals. I think at the end of the day what | :59:40. | :59:49. | |
we want to see are the sums, the just fixes, and will the local | :59:50. | :59:54. | |
decisions be revoked if the sums don't add up? Where does the local | :59:55. | :59:59. | |
communities factor in the HMRC considerations? Does it feature at | :00:00. | :00:05. | |
all? When I asked the minister about this, his written answer was just | :00:06. | :00:11. | |
that HMRC will undertake all necessary consultations and impact | :00:12. | :00:20. | |
assessment work for its plans. We can never assume that a office | :00:21. | :00:28. | |
will be there forever but this is a significant factor in | :00:29. | :00:32. | |
decision-making so let's hear about what weight has been attached to | :00:33. | :00:35. | |
that. The most important thing to me and to many here are the questions | :00:36. | :00:39. | |
that the constituents have, the dedicated and skilled staff in the | :00:40. | :00:44. | |
Tax Offices. They want to move are the jobs moving with them, are they | :00:45. | :00:51. | |
moving to jobs not just in terms of locations but in new roles? My | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
constituents fear that the good quality roles will be replaced with | :00:56. | :01:02. | |
poorer quality work. How did HMRC calculate that 90% are within daily | :01:03. | :01:08. | |
reasonable travel? Reasonableness of travel discuss not just depend on | :01:09. | :01:14. | |
distance but transport links and parking. And will this be assessed | :01:15. | :01:21. | |
on an individual basis? And the challenges arise with disabilities | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
and care commitments. Why has HMRC not undertaken a quality impact on | :01:27. | :01:32. | |
care of its proposals? Why has HMRC changed its policy in February 2015, | :01:33. | :01:38. | |
so that members are no longer entitled to talk to a rep when there | :01:39. | :01:46. | |
are one to one discussions especially when this concerns their | :01:47. | :01:49. | |
horizons. And given the work that they are | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
doing, the plans to close the offices and that the department | :01:54. | :02:00. | |
recruited 1,000 new staffs at other locations, what is the explanation | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
for this? And why will not the executive meet to talk about the | :02:06. | :02:08. | |
redundancies and how can this happen when the HMRC is spending millions a | :02:09. | :02:16. | |
month over overtime. In my constituency NHS England there | :02:17. | :02:26. | |
are staff being made compulsory redundant and others are moving in. | :02:27. | :02:32. | |
Those are being told who are compulsorily redundant are being | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
told that the redundancies are on a work stream basis than a whole | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
office basis and people are getting word week by week and HMRC call this | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
a plan? When they cannot tell people from week to week where they stand? | :02:46. | :02:51. | |
It emphasises that the sums don't appear to add up. The plan is not a | :02:52. | :02:57. | |
plan but a desperate attempt to get out of the whole HMRC issue that it | :02:58. | :03:04. | |
got into in 2001. There are questions raised and this | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
has highlighted that more scrutiny and consultation is required if we | :03:09. | :03:13. | |
are to understand what it means for HMRC for taxpayers, for towns and | :03:14. | :03:17. | |
cities where the office are situated and for the horde working employees. | :03:18. | :03:21. | |
The case for cuts and closures has not been made. We don't need the | :03:22. | :03:28. | |
glossy magazines and buzz words but hard facts and detailed scrutiny and | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
genuine consultation. Well it is all a bit of a mess. We | :03:34. | :03:39. | |
have seen from the contributions, I congratulate the honourable member | :03:40. | :03:42. | |
from Glasgow south-west for securing the debate. He has touched on the | :03:43. | :03:48. | |
issues of staff morale. The fact there is no ministerial statement. | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
The fact of the shameful mately contract, signed by a Labour | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
government who did not realise that this was an overseas company. And my | :03:58. | :04:02. | |
honourable friend from Walsall south touched on a point dear to my heart, | :04:03. | :04:08. | |
as well as mentioning the cures governing arrangements of the HMRC, | :04:09. | :04:14. | |
the strangeness of her troths in Walsall, close to mine in the | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
south-west, of traveleling to Birmingham to an HMRC centre where | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
there are higher rents in Walsall or Wolverhampton, where in my | :04:25. | :04:27. | |
constituency, I am disappointed to say that the government is proposing | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
to close Crown House in Wolverhampton. And the honourable | :04:32. | :04:38. | |
member from den deep West mentioned the imbalance of resources devoted | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
to benefit fraud versus tax evasion and to sum up what my honourable | :04:44. | :04:49. | |
friend from Bootle said movingly about his constituency, that the | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
Government is uninterested. The honourable member from south TRON | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
mentioned the geography and spoke about foster careers as an example | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
of people who need access, face to face who, are trying to help the | :05:04. | :05:09. | |
community and the honourable member who mentioned the difficulty that | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
Welsh speakers are likely to have with the rearrangements of | :05:15. | :05:17. | |
relocation to Cardiff and the honourable member from East Kilbride | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
pointing out the lack of an impact assessment and the context of this | :05:22. | :05:28. | |
is that the HMRC is embarking on something called making tax digital. | :05:29. | :05:33. | |
About which the chart Chartered Institute of Taxation says: Making | :05:34. | :05:39. | |
tax digital promises significant potential benefits but HMRC's | :05:40. | :05:44. | |
resources should not be cut further before the cost savings that | :05:45. | :05:49. | |
digitised savenings promises are being delivered. And there is the | :05:50. | :05:56. | |
rub. We see that businesses under making tax digital will be required | :05:57. | :06:02. | |
to update HMRC quarrel via a digital tax account. As the honourable | :06:03. | :06:11. | |
member for Chichester, the chair of the Treasury committee wrote to the | :06:12. | :06:14. | |
Financial Secretary this week saying: I understand that HMRC | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
clarified for the first time businesses would be required not | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
just to summit information to HMRC online once a quarter but required | :06:24. | :06:29. | |
to do all record-keeping in a prescribed digital format. The | :06:30. | :06:33. | |
institute of chartered accounts in England and Wales, and I suspect | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
that there is a similar situation in Scotland and Northern Ireland found | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
in their survey that 75% of businesses and 82% of sole traders | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
would have to change record keeping systems to comply with the | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
Government's new proposals for making tax digital. HMRC itself as | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
far as I can tell, is a mixed blessing as it were, a mixed picture | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
on digital talisation in a written answer to me on the 1st of February, | :07:02. | :07:08. | |
the Financial Secretary said: HMRC's business plan for 2016/17 will be | :07:09. | :07:18. | |
finalalised and published on the end of March 2017. Unfortunately, I | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
cannot find the document online, so if it is there, it is buried. Not | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
very good on digital talisation. Then to the office closures which | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
have been spoken about movingly today. | :07:32. | :07:34. | |
That is happening all over the country. It which make access for | :07:35. | :07:40. | |
individuals much worse. We know that access by telephone has been | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
appalling. Though to be fair to the minister with extra resources and | :07:46. | :07:48. | |
extra staff because of pressure from this side of the House that improved | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
but the context is that we trying to tackle tax avoidance and we see that | :07:55. | :07:59. | |
with a Panama papers, that HMRC staff are rushed off their feet now, | :08:00. | :08:05. | |
how are they going to deal with the fallout from the Panama papers? They | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
will not be able to do. I would like the minister when replying to refer | :08:10. | :08:16. | |
to that. Also we have a general anti-abuse rule that we are hoping | :08:17. | :08:23. | |
to have and to implement but that will require staff to enforce it. We | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
don't have the enforcement if we don't have the staff. The office of | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
Budget responsibility says regarding the tax he had lost from Guernsey, | :08:33. | :08:38. | |
Jersey and the Isle of Man quote: HMRC is less optimistic about how | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
much of the loss yield can be recouped on the basis that they are | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
unlikely to be able to work the higher number of additional cases on | :08:49. | :08:54. | |
top of existing work loads. The O BR estimate that HMRC will recoup ?530 | :08:55. | :09:02. | |
million is down from ?1. 03 billion as a previous estimate. | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
So, again, talk about cutting your nose to spite your face. When you | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
cut the number of staff and cannot work the cases to get in the | :09:12. | :09:14. | |
revenue, the staff would pay for themselves and there are many | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
studies to that effect. Coupled with a government which has increased a | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
tax code by 50%. Now I understand that all oppositions talk about | :09:25. | :09:28. | |
simplifying taxation it is the Holy Grail. It has never happened in 15 | :09:29. | :09:32. | |
years since I entered this Parliament. But if we are going have | :09:33. | :09:39. | |
a tax code, the tax guide is now 1,500 pages it was 1,000 in 2010. I | :09:40. | :09:47. | |
am not saying we need 50% staff but if we are having complexity rather | :09:48. | :09:50. | |
than simfully fiction we probably need at least the same number of | :09:51. | :09:55. | |
staff with their expertise. And as it is, some of this is efficiency, | :09:56. | :10:01. | |
the number of stage in the last six years has plummeted in HMRC. Now as | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
with all honourable members, I suspect, I had a helpful brief from | :10:07. | :10:13. | |
PCS, the trade union. I declare an interest as a member of the Unite | :10:14. | :10:19. | |
trade union. I am proud to be. PCS represents 35,000 workers, that is | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
well over half the workforce in HM, so I think that they have some idea | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
what they are talking about. One of the things that they highlight is | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
the lack of an equality impact assessment which should have been | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
done. There is anecdotal evidence. I stress that, from London and the | :10:38. | :10:41. | |
south-east and England that 40% of those targeted who will not be able | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
to tramp with the centralisation have disabilities. That may or may | :10:47. | :10:53. | |
not be the case but without an equality impact assessment we don't | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
know. Many staff with businessabilities, childcare or | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
elder care responsibilities will be disproportionately affected as the | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
additional travel, occasioned by centralisation, even if it is | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
geographically possible, which it is not in some parts of the country, | :11:12. | :11:19. | |
will not be for them. Then, HMRC, according to PCS: They are not | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
prepared to discuss the planned office closures with the recognised | :11:24. | :11:28. | |
trade union, PCS, only how the closures will be implemented. Now if | :11:29. | :11:32. | |
that is the case it is unacceptial. If really that is the Government's | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
view, they should put their money where their mouth is, I don't advise | :11:37. | :11:43. | |
them to do this but to put it where their mouth is and recognise the | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
trade union that represents the half of their staff or comply with the | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
spirit of the law and engage properly with a recognised trade | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
union. They should have the one touch one discussions which | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
initially were promised and are now being withdrawn in terms of having a | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
union representative there. That is part of what the union recognition | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
is about. But you can have the union rep there when you are difficulties | :12:10. | :12:13. | |
at work. And Government should be telling HMRC to do that. . What we | :12:14. | :12:19. | |
have a the moment is HMRC broadly going in the wrong direction. They | :12:20. | :12:22. | |
are putting the cart before the horse. They are cutting staff, or | :12:23. | :12:31. | |
proposing to, before there is any derision that the digitalisation is | :12:32. | :12:35. | |
working smoothly. Get it warning smoothly before cutting the staff. | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
And the making tax digital will increase costs for businesses who | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
will have to put in information four times a year on new software or the | :12:45. | :12:50. | |
disproportionate effect that will have on small businesses. There is | :12:51. | :12:55. | |
with fewer staff a lessen likelihood of success on tax avoidance and tax | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
evasion, which, to be fair, the Government has done a lot B they | :13:01. | :13:06. | |
have to do a lot more. And these cuts will further restrict access to | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
HMRC svrtss for individuals. There will be further demoralising for a | :13:12. | :13:16. | |
highly skilled workforce. I would say to Government that there | :13:17. | :13:21. | |
is a contradiction in what they are trying to do. | :13:22. | :13:27. | |
The contradiction is this: They are quite rightly trying to make HMRC | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
and its operations more efficient by using computers more. | :13:33. | :13:41. | |
At the same time, they are saying we need to centralise in offices. Well, | :13:42. | :13:46. | |
if computerisation works smoothly, you don't need to centralise | :13:47. | :13:52. | |
geographically, you can do it in a dispersed manner as with the offices | :13:53. | :13:56. | |
we have this that government is proposing to close. I urge the | :13:57. | :13:58. | |
minister to think again. Backing from the HMRC announced | :13:59. | :14:10. | |
important changes to how it would operate. It's aims are simple, to | :14:11. | :14:15. | |
create a modern efficient organisation that will continue to | :14:16. | :14:20. | |
protect this country's tax revenues while at the same time providing | :14:21. | :14:24. | |
better value to the taxpayer. HMRC is determined to make sure it is | :14:25. | :14:28. | |
better able to focus on its core priority to bring in more revenue by | :14:29. | :14:34. | |
tackling tax evasion and avoidance. And since 2010 it has made real | :14:35. | :14:38. | |
progress. For example, it has driven down the tax gap, the difference | :14:39. | :14:42. | |
between what HMRC should theoretically bring in and what they | :14:43. | :14:50. | |
actually collect from 7.3% in 2009, to 6.4% in 2013. That's one of the | :14:51. | :14:57. | |
lowest rates in the world. To make the importance of this quite clear, | :14:58. | :15:04. | |
let me put it this way. If the government and HMRC had not taken | :15:05. | :15:08. | |
action to achieve that, we would have collected ?14.5 billion less in | :15:09. | :15:16. | |
tax. We are determined to transform HMRC into a more efficient, more | :15:17. | :15:22. | |
highly skilled organisation which offers the digital services people | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
expect in the 21st-century. That is why in the spending review of 2015 | :15:27. | :15:30. | |
we made the commitment to invest ?1.3 billion in transforming the | :15:31. | :15:37. | |
digital capabilities of HMRC. In this year's budget we allocated a | :15:38. | :15:41. | |
further ?71 million to help improve their customer services. Why the end | :15:42. | :15:44. | |
of this Parliament this will bring the change we need to make it | :15:45. | :15:48. | |
quicker and easier for taxpayers to report and pay their taxes online, | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
deliver a seven day eight week service. Improve telephone services | :15:53. | :15:58. | |
and reduce call waiting times as well as dedicated phone lines for | :15:59. | :16:01. | |
new businesses. This investment is one that will pay off. I 2020 we | :16:02. | :16:07. | |
expect HMRC to be saving ?700 million per year as well as | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
delivering an additional ?1 billion in revenue in 2020. So the next | :16:12. | :16:18. | |
stage of the plan to bolster HMRC and help that deliver more for less | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
is to transform the estate it works through. In 2010 we challenged HMRC | :16:24. | :16:29. | |
to make savings, ask them to reduce costs by a quarter and reinvestment | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
and ?70 million of those savings in making sure that all businesses and | :16:35. | :16:37. | |
people paid the tax that they should, bringing in an additional ?7 | :16:38. | :16:45. | |
billion a year in 2014. They delivered, making savings of ?991 | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
million, including by reducing the cost of the estate. At the same time | :16:50. | :16:55. | |
they kept up progress in cutting the tax and improving customer service. | :16:56. | :17:01. | |
Far from endangering our plans to clamp down on tax avoidance and | :17:02. | :17:04. | |
improve customer service, these plans are crucial to it. Let me | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
remind the house that HMRC's plans will generate state savings of ?100 | :17:10. | :17:16. | |
million per year by 2025. I have a lot of points I want to get through | :17:17. | :17:20. | |
and if I have time I will give way. When HMRC was formed in 2005, it had | :17:21. | :17:26. | |
around 570 offices spread out all over the country, an inefficient way | :17:27. | :17:30. | |
of doing business in the 21st-century. Reorganising this | :17:31. | :17:34. | |
network of offices was a priority even then, which is why, following a | :17:35. | :17:40. | |
number of reorganisations that number was reduced to around 390 in | :17:41. | :17:46. | |
2010. It now stands at around 170 offices ranging in size from 5700 | :17:47. | :17:52. | |
people to fewer than ten. That is a start but it is not efficient | :17:53. | :17:58. | |
enough. The changes we announced in November represent the backstage of | :17:59. | :18:01. | |
HMRC's estate transformation programme. Over the next ten years | :18:02. | :18:06. | |
the department will bring its employees together in large, modern | :18:07. | :18:09. | |
offices in 13 locations equipped with additional infrastructure and | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
training facilities they need to work effectively. These new | :18:14. | :18:16. | |
high-quality regional centres will serve each and every region and | :18:17. | :18:21. | |
nation of the United Kingdom, creating high-quality skilled jobs, | :18:22. | :18:25. | |
promotion opportunities in Birmingham, Belfast, Bristol, | :18:26. | :18:28. | |
Cardiff, Croydon, Edinburgh, cars go, Leeds, that the poor, | :18:29. | :18:31. | |
Manchester, Newcastle, Nottingham and Stratford. There are significant | :18:32. | :18:38. | |
advantages to such a system. The new offices will have the capacity to | :18:39. | :18:41. | |
encourage people working in different roles at different levels. | :18:42. | :18:45. | |
To work more closely together as well as provide more opportunities | :18:46. | :18:48. | |
for them to develop their careers. They will be in locations with | :18:49. | :18:52. | |
strong transport links and with colleges and universities nearby to | :18:53. | :18:56. | |
ensure a ready talent pool close by. In short they represent the way | :18:57. | :19:02. | |
business is done in the 21st-century. HMRC expects the first | :19:03. | :19:06. | |
centre to open by 2017, with the others opening over the following | :19:07. | :19:10. | |
four years. Can I turn to the point about consulting HMRC staff? HMRC | :19:11. | :19:17. | |
fully recognises that its most valuable asset is its people. HMRC | :19:18. | :19:21. | |
can only do what it does thanks to those dedicated members of staff who | :19:22. | :19:27. | |
bring in the money that funds our essential public services. As well | :19:28. | :19:29. | |
as helping hard-working families with the benefits they need. That is | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
why HMRC has kept its workforce fully abreast of all plans to change | :19:34. | :19:38. | |
how it operates, referring internally two years ago. Since then | :19:39. | :19:44. | |
HMRC has held around 2000 events across the United Kingdom talking to | :19:45. | :19:47. | |
colleagues about these changes. Everyone working very HMRC will have | :19:48. | :19:51. | |
the opportunity to discuss their personal circumstances with their | :19:52. | :19:55. | |
manager ahead of any office closures or moves. I should remind the house | :19:56. | :20:00. | |
that this is about changing the locations, not cutting staff. Indeed | :20:01. | :20:04. | |
the department's policy is to keep any redundancies to an absolute | :20:05. | :20:09. | |
minimum. HMRC analysis indicates most employees are within reasonable | :20:10. | :20:11. | |
daily travel of a new centre, although that is subject to the | :20:12. | :20:16. | |
one-to-one discussions which every member of staff will have about a | :20:17. | :20:22. | |
year before any planned closure. Can I pick up this point about trade | :20:23. | :20:28. | |
union representation? One-to-one meetings are an opportunity for | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
managers and staff to discuss how the proposals will affect them as | :20:33. | :20:35. | |
HMRC consults with everyone of its staff. Once decisions are taken, of | :20:36. | :20:41. | |
course staff will have the opportunity to have representations. | :20:42. | :20:46. | |
But this is not a change of approach. These fact-finding | :20:47. | :20:49. | |
discussions with all members of staff to understand their personal | :20:50. | :20:54. | |
circumstances. Trade union rights have never been in such meetings. | :20:55. | :20:56. | |
But they will be involved as they would normally at a later stage. | :20:57. | :21:05. | |
I'll give way. Could just clarify that? My understanding is that once | :21:06. | :21:10. | |
there is an outcome of a one-to-one meeting there is not an appeal | :21:11. | :21:15. | |
mechanism, which I understand the trade unions do not get access to | :21:16. | :21:20. | |
either. The purpose of the one-to-one meetings are to ascertain | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
the particular circumstances of each individual as they are likely to be | :21:26. | :21:31. | |
affected by the proposals. From that then further proposals will come | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
forward. And the usual trade union representation will be available to | :21:37. | :21:39. | |
members of staff. Since announcing its decision on the locations of its | :21:40. | :21:46. | |
new offices in November, HMRC has been busy in negotiations with | :21:47. | :21:49. | |
suppliers designing the look and feel of buildings, planning how it | :21:50. | :21:54. | |
will move its existing workforce. That has included one-to-one | :21:55. | :21:58. | |
meetings with almost 2500 members of staff most immediately affected to | :21:59. | :22:03. | |
look at what their individual needs are in the moves. I do stress that | :22:04. | :22:06. | |
these are operational changes. They are decided at an operational rather | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
than a political level. Making changes to how offices are operated | :22:12. | :22:18. | |
is part of the programme. It is essential to make the organisation | :22:19. | :22:21. | |
fit for delivering better customer service as well as making it harder | :22:22. | :22:24. | |
for the dishonest minority to cheat the system, all at a lower cost to | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
the taxpayer. It does have the government's full support. In terms | :22:30. | :22:36. | |
of staff engagement, let me make this point. HMRC staff are currently | :22:37. | :22:40. | |
spread throughout around 170 offices across the country. Many of which | :22:41. | :22:47. | |
are a legacy of the 1960s and 70s. Without the modest facilities and | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
technology support. The current state of the state is undoubtably a | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
factor in the levels of engagement of staff, many of whom look forward | :22:57. | :23:00. | |
to working in view, modern, fit for purpose offices, the type of | :23:01. | :23:04. | |
workplaces that will also HMRC attract and retain the skilled | :23:05. | :23:08. | |
workforce it requires in the future. There's been much comment about the | :23:09. | :23:16. | |
contracts. I for 1am certainly not going to defend the contract entered | :23:17. | :23:20. | |
into by the previous government. It is not a good contract for the | :23:21. | :23:24. | |
taxpayer, that's precisely why HMRC want to get out of it. If we do not | :23:25. | :23:29. | |
get out of it now, HMRC will be fixed in it for years to come. In | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
terms of customer service standards, can I just point out that call | :23:34. | :23:42. | |
handling last week was that 98%, the average weight was six minutes. We | :23:43. | :23:47. | |
invested more money in the budget to improve on that. On Welsh speaking | :23:48. | :23:51. | |
services, HMRC are committed to maintaining services in Welsh for | :23:52. | :23:55. | |
Welsh speaking customers. And the quality of these services in the | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
future must continue to be high. HMRC is actively exploring options | :24:01. | :24:05. | |
on how it can best achieve that. Mr Deputy Speaker, if we want HMRC to | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
do its job effectively, we must ensure it is fit for the challenges | :24:10. | :24:14. | |
it faces. We have to be willing to modernise, find efficiencies and | :24:15. | :24:19. | |
make long-term strategic decisions. That is precisely what HMRC is | :24:20. | :24:22. | |
doing, transforming itself into a small, highly skilled operation that | :24:23. | :24:32. | |
will deliver more for the taxpayer. I hope it will have the support of | :24:33. | :24:44. | |
this house. Can I thank all those who contributed to the debate. This | :24:45. | :24:48. | |
is an issue which affects all the nations of the United Kingdom. We | :24:49. | :24:52. | |
heard some excellent points made, particularly in relation to HMRC | :24:53. | :25:02. | |
offices. Can I say to the minister I think it is cavalier to suggest to | :25:03. | :25:06. | |
employees that have been dragged into one-to-one meetings and denied | :25:07. | :25:09. | |
trade union representation, he should look at that. The lack of | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
parliamentary scrutiny on this issue has been shocking and many of us in | :25:15. | :25:17. | |
this house will continue to hold the government to account on this issue. | :25:18. | :25:28. | |
The Ayes have it. The question is, this house to now adjourned. | :25:29. | :25:36. |