16/01/2017 House of Commons


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settlement. We will continue to do that. It is important that we


understand the challenges the house. I like to receive the honourable


gentleman up. You will have seen reports at the weekend that the


Prime Minister is no blaming family doctors for the problems within the


national Health Service. It is not that social care has been cut or


general practice funding has been cut. Are they going to come to the


house and make a statement or should we assume they are trying to avoid


scrutiny for the plans to stop the places within the National Health


Service? I have received notification of statements within


the coming days, but that is not amongst them. The point of order.


Last Tuesday, the Foreign Secretary was asked with the peer


participating in the summit in Paris between the Israeli- Palestinian


peace situation. He said that we would reinforce our message. Note


United Kingdom Minister was present. Could they ask are really good to


hear from the Foreign Secretary on this issue. Of what are the full


intentions offers department with regard to answering these questions?


In the short time, in the 20 months I have known the honourable


gentleman, I have come to rely on him. In response to last part of the


observations, what can be done? What facility recourse the errors? The


gentleman is we're all familiar with the concept of the question and the


location of the office in which he could submit such a question.


Knowing the honourable gentleman, I am sure he will be reasonable in


this matter. I should say, he has registered with force and it will be


near it. If the Foreign Secretary fuels that inadvertently the house


has been misled, it was not knowingly clear to me that they once


were inaccurate. It may have been due to a change of mind. The


honourable gentleman can go about his business with a glint in his eye


because he has put the point forcibly on the record. I am sure


the whole house would want to join me in paying tribute to the great


professor Anthony King. He was one of the great academics. He made a


huge contribution to public life. He helped educate thousands of young


people. Including yourself, Mr Speaker and many other members in


the house. You were the only one he was able to teach to get a first, if


I recall. I am extremely grateful. More particularly, I rather imagine


that Professor King, his widow, she will be especially appreciative when


she hears of the noble step that you have made. You will have noted his


death last week at the age of 82 after a stellar career and evocation


is one of the most distinguished scientists of his generation. He was


a brilliant teacher. He was an outstanding communicator, not least


on television. And he was a prodigious and eliminating greater.


Personally, I feel every day, a sense of gratitude for what he did


for me. I was probably a very awkward student 30 years ago. I


still am. He stuck with me and I am hugely grateful. The honourable


gentleman and I got to know each other at University 30 years ago and


in affectionate tribute to them, he was as noticeable today as he was


when he used to heckle me at University meetings in the 1980s.


But Professor King was a great man who did wonderful things in the


teaching of science within the United Kingdom. If if there are no


further points of order, wheat come to the presentation of Bill. Organ


donation deemed consent the. Friday, 24th of March. We will proceed to


the orders of the day. I call the Secretary of State for culture,


media and sport. I beg to move that the National assistance bill be read


for a second time. The National Citizen service is a huge success.


300 young people of taking part. Many of them say it has changed


their lives forever. For those who do not know, it is a summer


programme. There is no cost to parents who cannot afford it. It


involves 14-17 -year-olds. The additional strength is that that


brings together people from all backgrounds. There is a focus on


personal and social development, along with designing and delivering


a social action project. The Chief Executive says, we build bridges


across social divide and landowners to opportunity. We bring young


people together in common purpose to change their perspectives. Above


all, we try to assure them that life is not a spectator sport. I got some


sense of how transformational it is when I visited last summer and meet


representatives from Everton football club.


There was tremendous and easy as and I was told by several people that


they had to come friends with people from the same street who they had


not known previously. This is not a typical. An independent


investigation found the vast majority of NCS graduates leave


feeling more positive about people from dissimilar backgrounds and


about themselves. Expanding the horizons of young people, while also


including -- increasing social cohesion is a massive win-win. I


thank my right honourable friend, and may I take this opportunity of


Warmley thanking national citizens service East with the people they do


with young people in the -- the work they do with young people in the


Peter -- Peter Brook and stitch. May I thank them for the superb work


they do in helping young people develop -- Peterborough


constituency. Mr Speaker, I suspect this will be a theme of the debate


today that the experience we have all had in our constituencies with


NCS graduates, and the enthusiasm and sense of self belief that doing


the NCS project gives them and I commend my honourable friend for


taking his NCS graduate into his office, and I look forward to


hearing how it goes in the work experience. I have also been


impressed when I have visited the NCS in Bradford each year but I just


wonder what the Minister 's response was to the NEL report about the


national citizenship service, saying it had not actually met its


participation targets in six years, and was working out at an estimated


?863 for every youngster taking part. What is the government's


response to the NAL's report on the NCS? I welcome the report because I


think it is important with any project of this type that we


understand the value for money and what is being achieved, and I think


my honourable friend will recognise I am sure that this was a very


ambitious target of which we have made great success in getting


towards but there are still more to do, and that is why this bill is so


important today so that more of the young people, such as the ones he


has met in his constituency, can have the chance to do NCS. I thank


my right honourable friend forgiving way. Will she join with me in


welcoming the over 3000 people from Lancashire have had the benefit of


the NCS. I saw the figures today, some 71 from my constituency have


benefited from it. Has she like me been struck when she has visited the


programme is how well they have reached out to two groups


specifically? First those from lower-income families and secondly


and I think most importantly of all disabled constituents of ours, who


have been hugely included in these programmes and played a vital role


in making sure they are so successful. I agree with my


honourable friend and he will know that the NCS has an above average


success rate in reaching those hardest hit young people. We have


all seen where at an NCS project very young people from disadvantaged


backgrounds, the young people with disabilities, with young people with


more affluent backgrounds all working together with the common


purpose of achieving their social action project and making lifelong


friends. I think that work should be commended and I am very pleased to


know there were 71 people from his constituency over the summer and I'm


sure there will be more next summer. I will of course give way. Can I


concur with all the positive things been said about NSC so far. Will she


thank me for doing -- join me in thanking David Cameron, Lord blanket


and my friend Michael Lynagh scholar who has taken this from a small seed


into the great success we see today. I will of course join the honourable


friend, the former prime and Mr David Cameron is now chair of the


patrons board of NCS because this is a lasting legacy to the work he


achieved in government. The noble Lord blanket has been very


instrumental in this, and Michael Lynagh scholar who I already


referred to, the Chief Executive, have done great work, let us


remember this is from a standing start that we have 300,000 people go


through this programme and congratulations are definitely in


order. I thank the Minister to kindly giving way and I went along


to Taunton Deane at Somerset college and was so impressed by the


confidence of the children who had undertaken this course and the


skills it had given them. The Minister agree that in the state we


are trying to upscale our young people, even in terms of being


polite, that we ought to give a lot more promotion to this scheme


because it has such a great future? I honourable friend is right and


that is why we want to grow NCS as quickly as possible clearly in a way


that is sustainable and continues to be successful, because it is the


case, and we have all seen that sense of self-worth, that confidence


it gives young people, working in a team, the things I have seen, really


stretching targets, they have been achieved. That is a fantastic


testament to the scheme and something that we want to see more


people taking part in. Because NCS can break down barriers just the at


time and otherwise they might becoming drenched. 95% of


participants said that an NCS allow them to get to know people whom they


would not normally expect to meet, as referred to by my honourable


friend. While the programme itself is for young people, it is not only


the young who benefit. NCS participants have preferred and


distributed care packages for the parents of premature babies in East


Durham. They have raised funds for the Merseyside Huntington's disease


Association and built a sensory garden for the residents of a


Weymouth care home. Moreover, volunteering can become a lasting


habit. The NCS trust estimates that in the 16 months following the


summer programmes, the 2013 and 2014 graduates did an additional 8


million hours of volunteering in their communities. The government is


determined NCS should become even more popular and successful.


Adventure and inspiration to need to be underpinned by nuts and bolts and


this is what this bill does. There is quite a lot to give way to! Let


me do Corby and then I will go there, and two more. I am very


grateful to my right honourable friend forgiving way and I also


would like to congratulate everyone involved in delivering NCS in Corby


and East Northamptonshire. She has talked about a lot of the benefits


of the scheme, which he also agree with me that employee of a litter


you is one of the key things that comes out of the NCS scheme,


learning lots of skills that really transfer well into the workplace.


Absolutely, the soft skills that NCS can bring the young people makes


them much more employable and much more valuable in the workplace and


it is exactly what we want to see coming from NCS, amongst the many


other benefits. When I visited Somerset's National citizens service


scheme in Exmouth last summer I was struck by the number of students


from previous years had returned to be leaders and mentors in subsequent


years and I wonder if there is a way the Secretary of State might like


the sort of reward those who go back as leaders and perhaps give them


some sort of recognition for that further service? Mr Speaker, we have


announced a long-term review of young people in volunteering and my


honourable friend makes a very good point about the way that the NCS


scheme can encourage volunteering within future NCSs and a very


interesting suggestion. I now have to give way to my right honourable


friend from Dorset and then my honourable friend from Canterbury.


Would she agree with me that the example she has set out demonstrate


very clearly the continuing commitment of this government to the


big society, and that in contrast to some of the mischievous reporting of


some media that is wholly compatible with the promotion, the welcome


promotion, of the shared society by my right honourable friend the


primary to? I do agree with my right noble friend, this is part of a


country that works for everyone, a government that works for everyone,


and that shared society we all want to be part of. Can I give way to the


newly knighted honourable friend from Canterbury. Sir Julian Brazier.


We did that last week, you are very kind. I thought the honourable


gentleman would welcome an encore? Most grateful, Mr Speaker. I thank


my right honourable friend forgiving way. As a huge supporter of NCS,


locally as well as nationally, would she agree that the adventure content


is critical, and that we must be very careful that the continuing


erosion in the base for adventure in the form of residential centres up


and down the country does need to be looked at, both in terms of numbers


and equality, if the NCS is going to continue to deliver successfully? I


do agree with my honourable friend that the adventure side of the


programme is incredibly important, and it may mean that some of the


young people themselves get to be the dizzying heights of a night of


the realm like my honourable friend. That is also the fact that young


people are getting the opportunity to be away from home, to manage in


an outward bound situation, young people I met from Liverpool who had


camped just outside my own constituency in the Peak District


were astonished to discover just how the least some bits of the country


are, and also how cold they can be at times, although very beautiful of


course. So, Mr Speaker, the NCS bill is short and focused on establishing


transparent government arrangements. It works in conjunction with the


Royal Charter, which makes clear that the NCS is above partisan


politics. A draft of the charter was published as a command paper and


laden house when the Bill was published. I have published an


updated version today, which we are laying before both houses that Flex


commitment that the house made to the other place, that accompanied


the bill as a ghost through this house. The bill begins by outlining,


a new form and body that is designed to last. However we do not want to


lose the talent and experience of those who work in the current body,


also called the NCS trust, who have ever seen an organisation that is


the fastest-growing youth movement in this country for 100 years. So


the bill makes provision for the scheme for the transfer of staff,


property rights and liabilities from the current body to the NCS trust.


The bill allows the government to fill -- fund the NCS trust out of


money from Parliament. It also allows child trust participation


fees at variable rates in order to maintain the principle that anyone


can afford to take part. Presently the maximum fee is ?50, but many


participants pay no fee at all. If I could just finish this one point,


the Royal Charter requires the trust to insure equality of access to NCS


and of course I give way. I have visited the NCS in Fareham this


summer and 70 youngsters were engaged in a very stimulating


project, which was helping the community, and I applaud those who


have led the success of this scheme, including Michael Lynagh sister


passed support has been critical. In light of the findings of segregation


amongst my -- our young people, does my honourable friend agree that it


has been critical in enabling the breakdown of barriers so that those


from different classes, ethnicities and barriers can come together to


restore significant pride in our country? I agree with my honourable


friend and it is very important that we make the point here that money


should never be the barrier to that kind of social cohesion and


integration. We want to see young people from all backgrounds to have


the chance to participate in NCS and it must never be the case that money


is the barrier that stops them doing so. This has been a very impressive


cross-party advert for the NCS, and the precursor was in the form of


government under the Be Inspired programme that Lord blanket and


others were involved in, as was Gordon Brown. One of the things I


wanted to ask the right honourable lady is how much work will be done


in terms of successive programmes for the hundreds of thousands of


young people who will be going through the programme? I have the


declaration of interest, which is the riding -- one of the issues that


has come up is the need for mentoring to enable people to


continue their progress. I would be delighted if the honourable


Secretary of State could look into the programme, the new initiative


they are developing to recruit and maintain a million mentors to get


them in to organisations like NCS, and others? I know that my


honourable friend the Minister for civil Society has had discussions


with the honourable lady about precisely this point, and we are


looking at programmes, in terms of men touring, and of course there is


the eye will programme, a very important part of making sure that


there are places for young people to continue the work that NCS starts.


Mr Speaker, if I can go back to the issue of money, it is vital that any


expenditure of public money is transparent, accountable and proper.


The bulk of this bill is a series of measures on this front. The NCS


trust must prepare annual accounts, which the National Audit Office will


then audit, before they are laid before Parliament. At the start of


every year, the trust must publish an annual business plan, setting out


its strategic priorities and annual objectives. Then, the end of the


year, the trust will produce an annual report that will be laid


before Parliament. The report will outline how the trust has fulfilled


its priorities and main functions. Furthermore, the bill lists specific


metrics that the report must assess, these include value for money and


the extent to which NCS has mixed people from different backgrounds,


the point that my honourable friend from Fareham aid earlier. Mr


Speaker, the bill requires the trust to lead by the government in the


event that a breach of contract has serious financial consequences, and


a provider is in serious financial difficulty or a staff member commits


fraud. This will allow government to take rapid steps to minimise the


loss of public money. I support the bill, can she define


how valuable money will actually be gauged? My honourable friend will


know that the National Audit Office has the responsibility for looking


at value for money and we will look at the report to assess the value


for money issue. Borrowing an amendment in the House of Lords, the


trust must notify the government of any investigation into criminal


activity that could have serious consequences for NCS. Altogether


these measures will ensure that the NCS trust works efficiently,


effectively and transparently. The bill has one other purpose, which is


to advertise NCS. The bill allows HRC to pass on information about NCS


to the young people, parents or carers whose addresses it holds.


Receipt of a national insurance number is a rite of passage at the


age of 16 and we want this letter to arrive with an invitation to go on


NCS as well. As this government continues to work to build a shared


society that works for everyone, the NCS has already transformed hundreds


of thousands of lives. This bill can ensure that it can transform


millions. I beg to move. The question is that the bill be now


read a second time. So Steven Reid. I suspect we are not going to put


the House too much of a bun fight this afternoon. Labour is delighted


to pass the passage of this bill, so it is extremely welcome that the NCS


has strong support on all sides of the House. One small regret from the


Secretary of State's comments as she referred to a new draft of the Royal


Charter, which was only late two minutes before this debate began. We


have checked in the office and it is not yet available in hard copy. My


colleague has just received a hard copy. Mr Speaker, if I can


apologise, there has been a problem in the post room, but the document


is now available. I do apologise if he did not receive it for the


debate. I look forward to reading it and I am sure she will point out to


me if any of the points I raised have already been addressed in the


draft. I will talk before I get into the detail of the build just briefly


about the context of the bill if I may. The Secretary of State referred


to the Prime Minister's mention of the NCS in her speech about a shared


society. We need to make sure that Britain does not end up hollowed out


in the way the previous Prime Minister's big society did. That


broke down into little more than an attempt to replace paid


professionals with unpaid volunteers and that is a shame


an urgent need to reshape politics an urgent need to reshape


in this country around people, family, community and shared


institutions in the way that strengthens society and gives people


more direct power. But for all their talk, so far the government has


tended to do the opposite and not match the power of the words they


speak in this chamber. If we want people to feel they have a share in


society they need a voice to articulate what they are looking for


and the power to make it heard, whether that is through work in the


community or the services they use. In all that there is a really big


vision about national renewal based on sharing power, reshaping politics


and opening up opportunity to everybody. We already see the


potential of that in communities that have taken control in projects,


such as tenant led housing organisations, community land


trusts, energy regeneration to name just a few. The NCS can play a


People's' capacity to participate, People's' capacity to participate,


but the government 's approach, including what we have heard of the


shared society and that is not much yet, but so far from what we have


heard it is too narrow and too centralised to tear down the


barriers that frustrate a wider and deeper engagement by citizens. I


hope that will change. The NCS will achieve great things, but it could


achieve even more if the government understood the power and the


potential of communities freely cooperating for the common good and


allow that principle to influence and shape the direction of


government policy right across the board. I will move onto some of the


detail in the bill. Of it is not contentious, unless changes I have


not seen have suddenly inserted a whole raft of things, but I doubt


it. One of the most powerful aspects of the NCS is how it brings together


young people from a range of different backgrounds, the divisions


exposed by the EU referendum showed just how important it is that we


promote better integration right across society. I had the privilege


of meeting some young people in Croydon who were taking part in the


NCS. Their passion to make change real was tangible and moving. They


had learned a lot from living, working, eating and facing


challenges that other young people from very different backgrounds to


their own were doing. Here is an example of why it is important we


break those barriers. In some parts of urban Britain we see a problem


with violent gun crime. Mercifully the problem at national level is


small, but if you live in an affected neighbourhood, it is


disfiguring and destructive in a way that is hard to imagine if you have


not experienced it. In London I have worked with people living on housing


estates were violent gun crime is endemic, but next door and there


will be streets full of better of people leading completely different


lives with completely different expectations. The two communities


live parallel lives that never touch. Young people on one estate I


their world ended at the borders of their world ended at the borders of


the estate they lived in and the world beyond was close to them. We


have to break those barriers down. I hope the NCS has a role to play


here. I would like to hear the minister's views on strengthening


the focus on integration in the bill. It talks about cohesion, but


not about the process of integration that is necessary to achieve it. A


change on these lines has the support of a number of delivery


organisations and we will deliver that and revisit it at committee


stage. It is fundamentally important the NCS continues to offer


opportunities to young people from different backgrounds, so it is a


concern the proportion of participants from poorer backgrounds


has fallen since the NCS was created in 2011. The National Audit Office


states, quote, in many areas a disproportionate number of young


people from certain backgrounds participate. It is important this is


an organisation for every young person in the country whatever their


background. I am happy to give way. It is slightly disappointing to hear


him coming out with quite a lot of negative comments about the scheme


which I thought his party, after so many years of trying, had come to


support. Does he not acknowledge the number of young people who qualify


for free school meals going on this programme has been put at 17%, which


is more than double the proportion in society as a whole, so in that


respect it is doing rather well? The point I am making are intended to


strengthen the NCS and if we do not make them, they may never change. I


hope he will join with me in that spirit of seeking constructive


criticism in order to improve what the government is doing. When


applications in general are below the targets set by the government,


13% in 2016. This needs to be addressed and delivery organisations


are aware of it, but we look to the government to set the support needed


to deliver it. We look to introduce a specific duty on the NCS to


promote the programme to young people from socially excluded


backgrounds and to explore new ways to reach that. I thank him for


giving way. In the turn that I thought that had been set for this


debate, does he recognise the work the government is doing through this


bill authorising HMRC to work with NCS to reach more people? That he


recognise that is a key part in making sure the NCS reaches a far


wider range of eligible young people and hopefully will increase


truly shared society requires participation rates


everyone to have a voice and the power to assert it. There


would you give people more control depends on the circumstances and the


context you are operating in. When the state sets up organisations or


services, it often fails to give people on the receiving end a real


say, despite the fact organisations benefit from higher levels of input


from their users. If the NCS is to remain relevant to young people, it


is important they have a real voice over what it does and how it


operates both now and in the future. That means giving young people a


direct role in governance and decision-making in the NCS. I had


previous involvement in setting up one of the biggest community youth


trusts in the country which took control of a number of Lambeth


Council youth services. The intention was to give young people a


real voice by reserving half the positions on the governing board for


them and by ensuring those young people appointed properly


represented young people from the more deprived backgrounds who had


the greatest needs for the services on offer. In the absence of our


structure it would still be good to see the NCS take a similar approach


and ensure young people have a key role at every level. This will be


critical to making the NCS credible and attractive to as wide a range of


young people as possible, particularly those who are


categorised as harder to reach. The government's changes to the draft


charter are important. There is a new board of patrons, but I believe


the NCS would benefit from more young people and fewer politicians


at the top. The NCS has full support on this side of the House. The


concerned I am racing are raised in the spirit of constructive criticism


and are intended to approve the operation of the organisation. We


want to see some changes in the Bill that will strengthen the focus on


integrating, and ensure the NCS reaches as wide a range of young


people as possible, and to give young people are bigger boys at


every level in the decision-making in the organisation. These changes


will help the NCS better meet its laudable objectives and we hope they


can be achieved through consensus. We live in a country with a generous


and open spirit, full of talented and ambitious young people who want


to make a difference to their own lives, their family's and the


communities about them. But they need a bigger boys and power to it


hurt. Organisations like the NCS have an important role to play in


making this happen. Ours is already sharing society where people


instinctively cooperate. It is government that to catch up. The


measure will be whether the government makes real progress in


opening up and sharing its power with people so they can at least


influence the changes that affect their own lives. This may be a small


bill, but it has big ideas behind it. Opportunity, community,


contribution. Given the chance, young people and the NCS have much


to teach us and the government about these great national themes. We wish


them every success in doing that in the future. Order. It might be


helpful to the House if I say there is no time limit at this stage on


backbench speeches, but an informal limit involving a certain


self-denying ordinance might help. An informal limit of ten minutes per


backbench members seems reasonable and well within the capacities of a


Kentish night. So Julian Brazier! Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I


am extremely grateful for the much undeserved honour. I welcome this


bill, I am a strong supporter of the NCS. I had the opportunity to visit


some of the 130 constituents who did their NCS service last year and I am


very impressed with the youngsters I met.


They were producing simile interesting ideas for working for


local charities. This combination of challenging activity and a sense of


service are something that I believe will be a very important part of our


last Prime Minister's legacy, and I was really delighted to see that


David Cameron has agreed to be chairman of the patrons. I am going


to focus what I say now on the first bit of the adventure programme


because while I strongly support what is being delivered and the very


strong team headed by Michael Lynagh and and his chairman that I have the


opportunity to me just before this, I am concerned there are some wider


trends out there that lie outside the stricken finds of this bill but


knowing how tolerant you are, Mr Speaker, as it is highly relevant to


the supplied ten the National Citizen Service are about to just


touch on it. Adventure training, which every NCS student does for at


least a week and in some cases two weeks, usually at the beginning of


the programme, develops teamwork, it develops confidence, it involves


pushing the bounds and learning how to manage risk in a positive and


constructive manner. It is very, very important, it is also


increasingly rare. As far back as 12 years ago, the then education select


committee pointed out that we, the country, which produced the team


that cracked Everest had actually slipped down the lead and were


arguably below average around the world in our capacity for adventure


training. Five years ago, the English outdoor counsel produced a


list of residential centres that deliver in their view good quality


adventure training. Of those 180 centres, 30 have since closed.


Equally disturbing, a number of others have been taken over by


providers who are providing a good commercial offer, in the sense that


their insurance premium is low because there are stream Lee-Lo,


that in the words of one expert in the field, typically deliver every


meal indoors to the children. In other words, these so-called


adventure opportunities involve nothing lasting for more than two or


three hours at a time. Now the NCS is firmly aimed at the right end of


the market. All of the experiences of all the NCS students I have met


have been extremely good ones, drawn from good parts of the sector, but


we have to be clear this element is still shrinking now. I believe that


the reasons for it are twofold. One is the litigious culture we are in,


and the second is the worry about prosecution. Two surveys done, one


in 2003 by the CCPR, and one by the scouts in 2006 revealed this, the


blame culture, as the number-1 concern among adult volunteers. It


is also in the era when you can a corporate manslaughter charge a very


serious concern for those local authorities and others who run these


providers. I would like to suggest that we have made some progress, in


terms of rolling back the litigious culture. After an all-party effort


behind a private members bill which I am privileged to do, the Labour


government introduced a small measure called the compensation act


with really only one substantial cause in it, that reminded the


courts but if they make an award against an organisation, they need


to take account of the damage potentially to the wider interest in


that activity. It was supported on all sides of the house, although


opposed by a number of highly articulate lawyers on both sides of


the house in both chambers, interestingly. The threat of


prosecution remains a very serious threat. There has been a certain


amount of salt of banter out there in the media about alleged stories


alleging various phoney regulations, and the HSE, whose new chairman I


strongly welcome, has debunked lots of myths. But the problem whenever I


discuss people providing adventure training is never with regulation.


Nobody has ever in a serious adventure training context once


raised a regulation with me as a problem. That is not the issue. The


problem is the risk of prosecution if something goes wrong. Perhaps the


worst case of this was called Julie Park. 2005, a boy of 14 was drowned


in a caving incident in Yorkshire's top adventure training provider. The


Health and Safety Executive decided to prosecute the local authority,


and the case took more than five years to come to court. Finally, in


2010, the local authority were acquitted. They were acquitted


because a critical body called the adventure activities licensing


authority, who look at standards in these organisations, have given this


body a clean bill of health and came and testified in court that the


standard of instruction, the standard of leadership, was


extremely high here, and the freak and complete unpredicted weather


conditions that had led to the rapidly rising water could not have


been anticipated, and in fact it was a remarkable achievement of the


instructors that they got all but one of the children out alive. Had


that prosecution gone the other way, we would not have only lost that


centre but many, many others button down the country would have decided


they were no longer willing to take the risks of continuing. Would he


agree with me that that indicates the importance of ensuring the


adventure activities licensing authority remains in a condition


where it is able to take that kind of stance? My right honourable


friend, who is an absolute expert on this matter, anticipates and did so


much in this area in his time not just with the NCS but also more


widely in the adventure training field. That is why it is absolutely


crucial, I would suggest to the house, that in a time when we are


about to start a public consultation on the future, which will be


conducted by a panel by the HSE, not only that it survives, but that its


brief is expanded so that it is able to ask why have these centres been


closing over the last few years and crucially not just ask is the


practice safe in the centres, but also what is the quality of the


adventure that is being delivered there? Because it is very easy to


make so-called adventure training safe if it isn't adventurous. You


need to be able to ask what is the character building quality of these


activities. I am delighted to say the HSE have taken the decision to


include on the panel one outside member, Iain Lewers, the director of


the campaign for adventure. One of whom's patrons I should mention is


another previous Prime Minister, Tony Blair. So I very much hope that


when we have a National Citizen Service, whose patrons I headed by


one former Prime Minister, and the campaign for adventure is sitting


on, represented on the panel that is looking at the future of the


adventure activities licensing authority that that the panel will


come up with a conclusion that will guarantee a future for la, that


ensures it continues to be able to speak independently, and expands its


brief so that we discover why these centres are closing and that we get


the focus back on to the kind of high-quality adventure which is so


crucial to the future of the National Citizen Service. I very


much welcome this bill. Sure it is a small bill and in many ways on


controversial, the key strategic effect of being the effective


government of the National Citizen Service, but my sense is that seeing


it in this way hides its true significance, in that it really


focuses in on how do we live together, and there is no more


important issue addressing the country, how do we create a nation


that is with itself and foster a notion of service to others amongst


our young people? Obviously this is vital, given the divisions in our


society so clearly exposed last year around class, race, geography and


religion, and a general fear that these tensions might continue to


escalate. These divisions suggest a brittle country, so resolving this


and healing division will indeed take time but this bill will help.


So it is a small bill it is significant, and more generally how


do we ensure that our young people on Orange will about the country


they inhabit and how do we build an ethic of service amongst the younger


generations? A programme of National Service on behalf of our fellow


citizens, the National Citizen Service. So it is a simple notion


but important in terms of shaping the future character of the country.


Across my east London constituency, one of the fastest changing


communities in the UK, and the one that has experienced quite recently


issues of extremism and violence, I have seen at first hand the benefits


of this programme, widening the depth that micro-birth of young


people's experiences, from different backgrounds, it is hoped the


community is integrate, like ours. Overall across the country some


275,000 young people have already taken part of the programme and a


couple of results are worth noting. 82% of people leave the programme or


positive about the people from different backgrounds and also feel


better prepared about the future. It is also building a legacy of service


and volunteering. I was struck by one statistic that in the 16 months


following the submission of cohorts that went through in 2013 and 2014


contributed a further 8 million hours of service in the community


after they had gone through the course. So the ethos of the NCS, in


order to build resilient young people, appears to be working. I


think we can agree with this this afternoon that to develop further it


needs to be beyond party politics and the bill helps to ensure that no


one party can lay claim to it. To be successful, it cannot be seen as


another government scheme that will put people off. So far, the evidence


suggest that participants do not see it simply as a government scheme,


and again that is evident about why we need to retain the cross-party


political support for the programme. In terms of the details of the bill,


the bill ensures that transition from the community interest Company


to an organisation of the Royal Charter. The NCS trust will be a new


body and the rule Charter requires the trust to ensure equality of


access irrespective of background, ensuring a flexible fee structure


that would not inhibit participation. Much of the bill is


about the accountability of the trust.


The trust must publish an annual business plan and at the end of the


year and annual report to be laid before Parliament. All of this seems


pretty sensible and not that controversial. I simply want to make


four points I hope will not be seen as controversial, and they are to


try and trick then... Just before, thank you to my honourable friend


for giving way, does he agree with me that actually the importance of


the annual report cannot be overstated? And would it not be, as


well as laying the report before Parliament, would it not be


something for the administrative consider whether the government the


Minister will ensure that that report is debated and discussed


within Parliament as well? I totally agree, if stated objectively this is


how we can learn to live together it seems to me it should not be beyond


our collective wit to organise a few debates in Parliament every year so


we can test how successful we are being at that, so I agree with my


colleague. It begins with question of the links with public bodies. The


original draft of the bill had an obligation on public bodies but that


has gone. I can understand public bodies might see this as a bit of an


imposition, local authorities have quite a bit being thrown at them at


the moment. So there is no need to enshrine it, but if we go to


proceed, surely we need to ensure that this is a core activity for our


public activities? I raise this with my local council and a number of our


schools and found it was not actually a concern I thought it


might be, not least when I found that 95% of London schools are


already involved in the programme, although I do wonder about the


effect of the independent sector. Therefore in terms of the Minister,


when will the guidance of schools and local authorities on how to


better engage with the NTSB published?


I understand ?20 million will be earmarked, and it raises the


question of what role schools and colleges will have in the promotion


of the programme. Secondly, on questions of integration, I would


echo the point made by one of my colleagues earlier. One of the point


is whether the language used is sufficiently focused on on the


integration aspects of the NCS. Social integration, mixing and


forging bonds, is a process and a should not be confused with social


cohesion, the outcome we seek to achieve. At its best NCS helps


integration. Participants spend almost three weeks together and


through a social atmosphere they cook, live and eat together, so they


are pushed out of their comfort zones as they engage in challenging


activities and rotate leadership roles. They set shared goals and


they have shared challenges overcome through teamwork rather than through


individual effort. Could we ensure that the integration function is


enshrined in legislation? They are the most important part of the NCS


work. Is there enough of that integration and not just cohesion?


Thirdly, on the question of inclusion, for a programme to have


integration at its heart, it must include the hardest to reach young


people. Should not some of the funding that delivery organisations


yet to be ring fenced for this purpose to ensure that all members


have access and NCS is a programme for all. On the ambition of the


bill, in terms of money, over 1 billion over five years is a lot of


money, especially given the austere times we live in. Is the Bill


ambitious enough? How is it linked to wider questions of citizenship?


Citizenship might well fall of the school curriculum. That would also


alter the driving philosophy of the programme. In contrast, the NCS


provides short programmes for 16 and 17-year-olds and it is a clearly


defined programme. But there are issues we might want to discuss, for


example city year recruit young people to serve for a year in


challenging communities, but their status is not clear. In other


countries like the USA and France full-time volunteering has a clearer


legal status. Should we not consider a more systematic government


approach to the idea of a year of service and help with university


fees and the like? At present full-time volunteers are literally


technically not in full-time education, training or employment.


In other countries full-time volunteering as a proper legal


status. Why should we not move in this direction? I am one of the very


few people left who does subscribe to the idea of a big society and the


NCS is what the last Prime Minister called the big society in action


which I am supportive of. I also think it is a good thing that the


recently departed Prime Minister has decided to chair the NCS patrons.


This bill has an ambition behind it, to build virtual citizens and help


us live together peacefully. It is a little bill, but one that is


significant in terms of the future character of the country we wish to


build. Nothing could be more important if this bill helps the NCS


to achieve and endure, it will have achieved plenty. It is a pleasure to


follow the honourable member for Dagenham and I formally received his


marks and thought to myself, having believed this was a bill which was


not possible to take any objections to, that the honourable member for


Croydon North had cast around fairly widely in order to disguise his


enthusiasm for it. Four years ago I had my first encounter with NCS and


I decided then that it was a good thing. It seemed to me that this


bill is designed to make it more of a good thing and that is why I


welcome it so warmly. I can think back over the years when one of the


siren calls that one heard from young people themselves was, there


is nothing to do here, whether he was a town or a village. In reality


there were things to do, but there was no obvious way of making a


positive contribution to the community beyond perhaps the Scouts


and the girl guides. Then from an older generation you would hear the


call that the youngsters these days need discipline, we should have


National Service, bring back National Service, something our


professional Armed Forces rather disdained as an idea. You would hear


people say, well, it did me good and it is what everybody needs today.


That view began to fade, quite rightly, but talk there was of a


civilian equivalent. Somehow it never got going and it is to the


credit of the former Prime Minister when he was the member for Whitney


that he did take this up and make a real achievement of it. Many of us


always felt there was scope for this, whether it was because we were


enthused by what the late President Kennedy did with the Peace Corps and


so on, involving and harnessing the views and enthusiasm of young


people. At last it seems to me with the National citizens service we


have got a scheme which has taken root and is flourishing. My


connection with it has simply been that I have tried juju to visit a


group in my constituency in each of the last four years and I have seen


a whole host of things that young people have engaged in at various


stages of the four week a process that they follow. I can certainly


attest to the growing confidence I have seen amongst those young


people, the interaction between them, coming as they do from


different backgrounds and not having met each other before, and the


enthusiasm that they had. I welcome that. I never heard a voice raised


by them that this was a waste of time. It was all a matter of wanting


to go back and tell other people that this was something they should


think about when their chance came. I accept the trust's own findings of


greater positivity amongst people who they have managed to persuade to


come into the scheme. The honourable member referred to the Ipsos Mori


poll evaluation and that is good evidence that young people


themselves feel positive about it. What are the concerns? There is I


suppose the possibility that NCS has an effect on recruitment to other


organisations, whether it is voluntary service overseas, whether


it is Medecins Sans Frontieres, Save the Children, Oxfam, the Duke of


Edinburgh scheme, or the Prince of Wales trust. But I do not think that


will happen, it is more likely that NCS will be a stepping stone to


looking around for other things that people may do in life, having had


the knowledge and experience of what being part of NCS was all about. In


short, Madame Deputy Speaker, I do not see anything that NCS can spoil.


It is inculcating a habit and an approach amongst young people and


that can only be for the good of our society. Of course it is right we


should be concerned about governance and one or two colleagues this


afternoon have referred to how we control it and make sure it is


offering value for money and so on. With an annual report presented to


Parliament this is a way which we can all check on this and I support


the idea of there being a debate about it. We should talk about these


things more often, so the achievements of young people who NCS


should be highlighted in Parliament because too many people are ready to


believe the worst of young people, simply on the basis they will read a


story in the newspaper which puts them in a bad light, completely


ignoring the fact the vast majority of young people mean well and in


fact do well in terms of their contribution to society. Having had


the pleasure and privilege of some involvement with voluntary


organisations over the years, one of the things that we have to be


careful about is supposing that you can find a precise value to attach


to the benefits that you get from being with NCS. How do you measure a


contribution that somebody might make? The enthusiasm that will go


with them when they go out to collect money for a cause? How can


you measure it? You cannot measure how a person's outlook on society


may have been proved to make that person someone a more positive


citizen than they might have otherwise been. Yes, we must be


responsible in the amount of money that is spent, we do not want to


pretend that you can implement the view of the cost of everything, but


the value of nothing. I will give way. I thank my honourable friend


for giving way and I think he makes a powerful and important point. I


have visited schemes in the Bury St Edmunds constituency, but I stand


here as someone who has had three children attend NCS or be a mentor


on NCS. Actually the benefit is some way down the line, growing their


confidence and so on, and growing their ability to understand where


other people come from. One of my daughters at university is there


with a young man who had had a somewhat challenging background


before she was on NCS with him, but everybody equals out in that place


and that is one of the fundamental benefits of NCS, levelling the


playing field, both educationally and in abilities. Would he not


agree? My honourable friend's rather lengthy contribution has extended my


speech, but I absolutely applaud what she says and I am grateful for


the support that she is giving to the remarks that I have just made!


The Local Government Association has expressed concern that the money


that will go into NCS is therefore money that they will not get, or


they might lose money in the process. None of us want to decry


what many local authorities to their credit are able to do. I have always


been an advocate for that, but this is a special organisation which is


in no way makes negative what it is local authorities do. It might find


even more people who will want to take part in these various other


youth services and extend the reach of those bodies. My honourable


friend, the member for Canterbury, raised the safety issue and of


course that is important. I hoped he did not quite over do it because I


was thinking of some of the schemes I've seen what even with the use of


a fork to put into the earth when you are tidying up a community


garden could cause an injury, or someone who is bravely advertising


on a street corner, the fact that is a car wash they are operating for a


period some little distance away, who could be knocked down in an


accident. All sorts of horrors could befall people, in ordinary things as


in high adventure things. But we must not assume that anything goes


and that people could be put at risk. I was not really disagreeing


with my honourable friend. Madame Deputy Speaker, my right honourable


friend is absolutely right and my point is that we have to be very


careful that an unhealthy obsession with trying to eliminate all risks


N-Dubz squeezing the opportunities for real adventure out of


children's' lives. Of course I agree with that and the adventure part of


it is opposed to the activities in which there could be a safety risk


and is a distinct thing. The real test to which we should apply our


minds is whether the core programme is delivered, whether the numbers


going through are continuing to rise. What I found some encouraging


is that those who have graduated, if that is the right word, are


increasingly ready to take on a further role. That has also been


mentioned by the honourable member for Dagenham and rain. They come


back as mentors and tutors and I have had the pleasure of meeting


some of them earlier this afternoon. It is great that they admit as to


how their eyes have been opened and their experiences deepened and how


they are willing to pass that on. The best recruiters are those people


who go back to their schools and talk about it amongst their


acquaintances to encourage further participation. If we can keep on


raising the numbers who want to go into the NCS, I think we will do the


quality of our social life in this country a great deal of good.


Schools should be in courage. I heard what the secretary of State


said about the role of HMRC. Yes, that is good, but we need to get to


the schools. If I may say so, the fact that only about 150 members of


this house have as yet found the opportunity to meet with a group


with an NCS project is way below what it needs to be. I would


encourage all colleagues to find an opportunity to do it so they are


well informed from their own impression and constituency of what


a good project and concept that the NCS is. I think it is absolutely


right that we are conferring royal charter status to give NCS a higher


profile, making it more obviously a proper organisation in the eyes of


anybody who might doubt it and I would say finally we should move


with enthusiasm on our part something that has already


established good foundations. Thank you called a pleasure to


follow the honourable member and other honourable members and I join


with them in welcoming this bill and the provisions it puts in place,


because I believe that National Citizen Service should be a right of


passage for young people across our country and this bill will in bed


NCS as a national institution, and make it an important part of our


national fabric. In Yorkshire, I've seen at first hand the great work


that the challenge trust, English football league trust do on behalf


of the NCS. Last year, Barnsley FC's community sport and education trust


oversaw 326 people taking part in the scheme. The fact that this is


well over double the number that had part in 2013 gives me confidence


that with the right support the scheme will become more and more


successful. For many, NCS is the first up on their youth social


action journey. Their involvement in the programme in bed in them the


value of service, and I'm very supportive of the role that it plays


in doing this. Because NCS is a part of the youth social action centre


that is going from strength to strength, a fact that it is very


clearly demonstrated to the great work of organisations like city


year, Be Inspired, the Princes trust and the Scout Association. I could


speak about the achievement of each of these organisations and many


others at length, but today I want to confine my remarks to the NCS and


what makes it so special. President Obama said in his farewell speech


just the other day for too many of us it has become safer to retreat


into our own bubbles, surrounded by people who look like gas and share


the same political outlook and never challenge our assumptions. NCS


consistently pushes our young people out of these bubbles and brings


young people together from different backgrounds across socioeconomic and


ethnic lines. This must be applauded and it must be built upon, and this


is a very timely moment to have this debate because 2016 was the year


that are divisions in our country became more apparent than ever


before. Accordingly I think it is hugely important that national


institution such as the NCS exist, where people can come together and


meaningfully engage with those from different backgrounds in order to


bridge the divide is. I would however just like to draw the


house's attention to research that shows a number of NCS graduates from


hard to reach backgrounds has fallen since the introduction of the


scheme. I would I would therefore be grateful if the


Minister considers whether the language used in the Royal Charter,


laying out the primary functions and purpose of the NCS trust, is


sufficiently focused on the integration aspect of the NCS.


Cohesive communities are the outcome. For many young people


taking part in NCS, it is the beginning of creating the diverse


social networks they need to flourish. Therefore, we should focus


on ensuring the hardest to reach young people are able to take up the


opportunity afforded to them by the NCS. Programme providers such as the


challenge are doing fantastic work to this end. The employee dedicated


personal coaches to support young people with complex needs prior to


and after completing the NCS. So as to ensure there are as few barriers


to entry as possible for these young people. I will give way. Would he


agree with me one of the mentors said to me that one of the young


people who got the most out of it on her course was in fact a young


carer, and maybe this is a group that should be targeted


specifically, as they often have a hard job in accessing some


recreation and the ability to lift themselves out of their current


environment in a way that is helpful and meaningful. I do absolutely


agree with her. There is a consensus I think across the house and I think


my honourable friend the member for Croydon North was slightly unfairly


chided if I might say so for seeking to make the most constructive of


contributions to this debate because I think there is a consensus that


this is a great scheme, and that young people benefit enormously from


it. The challenge that government, all of us find, is that those people


who perhaps would benefit the most those Bautista reach, and as I said


in my earlier remarks, those are the hardest to reach the hardest to


reach, and on the side just offering some constructive critique of the


scheme, a scheme which we support and in ensure it maximises the


benefits all those people who would benefit from it. Prior to my


honourable friend was like most, I was alluding to the work done by the


challenge in dedicating personal coaches to support young people with


complex needs and ensuring that they get the same opportunities as


perhaps participants from more affluent grounds. And for the


programme to have integration at its heart, it must be a programme for


all, and providers must have adequate resource to focus their


attention on this work, and although the NCS plays an important role in


enabling social mobility, it should not be seen as a ready-made remedy


to the problems caused by costs to other youth services. It must be


part of a sectoral wide investment strategy. Madam Deputy Speaker, my


life, both outside and inside politics, has showed me the value of


service and of citizenship, and the National Citizen Service is a


21st-century manifestation of these values. I am grateful for the


opportunity to contribute to this debate, and I look forward to


hearing from the Minister regarding the specific points that has been


made most constructively think it is fair to say on the side about the


NCS's role in facilitating integration and including the


hardest to reach groups in our society, but most of all I look


forward to the programme growing from strength to strength as a


result of this bill, and of its Royal Charter. Thank you very much


indeed, it is a great pleasure to follow the honourable gentleman and


the speaker is both a local member of Parliament but also chairman of


the all-party Parliamentary Heritage rail, and the


It is also been followed outside by those who have an active involvement


in the NCS. They might think why is it that there is not a packed house


to celebrate such an important scheme. But I think they should draw


some comfort from the fact that actually that means this is not a


contentious scheme, it is something that has cross-party support, that


all white honourable members want to succeed and actually it is a good


sign, in a way, that there is although much interest, not too much


controversy about this particular bill. Madam Deputy Speaker I the


fact that this bill will place the NCS on a statutory footing and make


it a national and situation and a rite of passage for 15 to


17-year-olds, and I want to make sure in joining others to pay


tribute to the former Prime Minister who was a great champion of NCS.


Also the member for the Ruislip, northward and Pinner who is now a


minister in another department who did so much to get NCS up and


running in the last parliament. I would like to make tribute all of


those working on NCS both nationally, and those who have


already participated and participate as mentors in all the schemes, and


without their great education, the schemes would not have success, and


to pay tribute to the current minister and the current Secretary


of State for championing this. I think it is fair to say that the


families, both my family and the Secretary of State's families


already know the benefits of much outdoor activities, because we take


them on route marches often in the summer recesses. I want to talk just


about three areas today. The building of skills needed by our


young people for it life in 20th-century Britain, the cohesion


and integration aspect of NCS and a specific amendment which was raised


in the other place, which I do intend to put down on volunteering


in waters continued to be -- considered to be an industrial


undertaking first of the NCS is often a first step the young people


on their youth social action journey and it does create an emphasis on


creating more gauged citizens will stop we have our day had mention of


the primers to's recent speech, unveiling the shared society, in


which said brightly it is time to tackle the culture of individualism,


and the NCS is about making sure young people are equipped with the


necessary skills to get ahead in life. I was to let you hear the


honourable member for Dagenham and rain talking about character,


because character education is something that I championed when I


was in the Department for Education, setting up the character of awards


and the character grants, and I do think that NCS, and I have had,


sessions with global and national providers, is a huge important part


of building individual and national character of young people. NCS is a


vital extracurricular activity, but it is also about civic engagement,


and the recent research does show that participants have a higher


likelihood of voting if they have taken part in NCS, and it has also


been shown that bite the ballot who partnered with them via The


Challenge, and 95% of all participants have gone on the


register to vote. That a time when we often lament the fact that young


people are not so engaged in voting in the political process, that just


shows one of the benefits of NCS. Through the programmes come young


people are able to work with they develop resilience, my


favourite word, quit, teamwork and leadership skills, and to discover


more about their area through delivering local volunteering


project that matter to them. I recently met with the original


delivery part of NCS in my own constituency, who have worked with


over 5016 and 17-year-olds in the East Midlands since 2011, and


supported them to carry out over 100,000 hours of social action. In


Loughborough, I work with a number of organisations who benefit from


NCS social action, including rainbows children's Hospice and the


Falkland centre which supports homeless people with accommodation.


I have met at least three of my local NCS cohorts during the


residential week in Leicester at the end of the social action project


they were doing. The last one involved great sacrifice of eating


cupcakes on a Saturday morning, it was very difficult and I was


delighted they had chosen to raise funds in that way. But there is an


intensive nature and a seriousness behind the NCS programme. Honourable


members have body talk about the levelling effects of the activities


involved in the setting of shared goals, which also contributes to the


development of a common identity between participants, who often come


from diverse backgrounds. I think those who have talked about the


national importance of NCS, I think it is right, last year's referendum


result has meant that discussions about national identity are ever


more to the fore, so I think that mixing of people from different


backgrounds is such a vital part of NCS. I also welcome that the bill


will encourage more young people to take advantage of the programmes.


Schools are clearly an airport in way of reaching young people and


informing them of the benefits of participating in the programme, and


when I was Secretary of State for Education I had some, sessions with


the minister, and I was very much of the view that schools should


absolutely facilitate the giving of information to young people about


the benefits of the scheme. There is a temptation sometimes to ask our


schools to do an awful lot and I did used to say that if we ask schools


to do everything that everyone asks of them they would never get round


to teaching until about midnight every night, so we have to have a


balance, but they're absolutely must be a way for schools to facilitate


the giving of information about the programme to both future


participants but also the parents and families, and in allowing those


who have participated in the scheme to come back and talk to future


cohorts about why they should sign up.


Let me turn to a amendment tabled in the other place which we might


debate during the course of this bill going through the house. The


purpose is to ensure that the builders not unintentionally prevent


people from working as volunteers on heritage railway or Heritage tramway


as part of the programme provided or arranged by the NCS. A similar


amendment was tabled by Lord Falconer and has been debated


already in the other place. I am a chair of the all-party partner group


on heritage rail and want to recognise the contribution that the


sector makes to local economies through tourism and employment. The


great Central rail through my own constituency attracts 130,000 per


year visitors and for the six consecutive year has reached a


record high of ?1.57 billion and provided deployment of over 20,000


people. Young people will be vital to the success of the industry as


they provide voluntary maintenance and operational support and in turn


heritage rail raise hope to engage people and provide a platform for


them to learn important skills that the NCS and still is. It would


appear however that the employment of young persons and children act


1920 excludes children which section five of eight of the education act


1996 defines as individuals not yet 16. It seems illegal for young


people to volunteer on heritage railways which did not exist are


busy when the act, and the current push towards volunteering did not


exist when the 1920 act came into force. That is why the new clause


has been proposed, to make clear that the act for 1920s should not


prevent people from volunteering on heritage railways and tramways. I


would like to make it clear that the standard health and safety that we


have heard in discussion this afternoon, supervisor requirements


and all, would of course still apply. We need more young people on


our heritage railways and the all-party Parliamentary group is


looking at this and there is a role for apprenticeships and the


development of vital employability skills will the 21st-century. I


would like to conclude by offering wholehearted support for NCS and the


bill. I would like to see maximum participation in NCS in the future.


It is a good thing, in fact a great thing for the individual young


people participating, but is also a great thing for the country. I hope


to have the opportunity just you asked ministers to think about


updating the law in respect to heritage railways and industrial


undertakings. Thank you. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I will join


colleagues in having a similarly consensual and commonly approach to


this bill because I'm super -- supportive of this myself. They have


done great work in my constituency. Redcar as a constituency has a youth


employment rate of two and a half times the national average. People


knew they were guaranteed steelwork jobs or at the docks previously, but


those industries and jobs have gone and the challenges faced now offer


less security and more challenging environments for getting jobs and


opportunities. My greatest fear is that young people growing up in the


Redcar don't necessarily see that they have a future there any region


and that you get on, you have to move away. Some of the most


important things that NCS brings is giving young people a stake in the


local community and made the -- restoring civic pride. That is


fundamental to communities like mine for building for the beach. I have


seen NCS regenerate but the clubs, paint meeting rooms, ten concrete


roadsides into gardens, and raise a huge amount for fantastic global


charities -- local charities for domestic violence and other


worthwhile courses. The programme emphasises developing life and work


skills and particularly self-esteem, confidence building, and as I have


said encouraging the next generation is Jake is stake in their community,


I think this is a truly valuable. I was privileged to attend some of the


award ceremonies and see young men and women addressing 200 and 300


people in their way they would have admitted themselves they would never


have done a few weeks ago. That is a fantastic skill to give them, skills


like budgeting, project management, fundraising, things like have


already been said in an increasingly squeezed curriculum in schools we


don't have the time to teach young people but which are absolutely


fundamental to success. I value the NCS very highly, and this bill will


play a role in establishing it as a national institution for more young


people to access. Police have also expressed that one of the greatest


strength of the NCS is the way it brings together people from all


walks of life, bridging divides and overcoming prejudice. It is


important because young people from disadvantaged backgrounds are able


to access the same opportunities as those from wealthier and better


connected families. Social inclusion, social mobility are


intrinsic to the principles of NCS, and I strongly believe that these


principles must be maintained when placed on a statutory footing. It


must not be the preserve of those young people who are already


confident enough to put up their hands, those whose parents already


have the sharpest elbows. At present the NCS are committed to make the


most socially excluded young people included. The report published last


week it is that a high percentage of the assessments from minority groups


were participating in a positive achievement. We must make sure the


motive remains a key purpose after the translation to becoming a world


tour the body and cannot ever be relegated to low importance. I


support because my honourable friend made on the front bench, and also by


the challenge to make the Royal Charter Sue specifically reference


social integration is one of the primary functions of NCS. I support


the case for funding specifically ring faced for targeting hard to


reach groups. This is fundamental to NCS and should be fundamentally


written into the government fabrication of the new body. I am


initially concerned when the government initially announced the


bill that some of the burdens might be placed on schools and local


bodies which are overstretched, and it is a welcome change then that


there are no formal duties on either to be included in the bill we are


debating. Moving forward, injuring a programme grocer sustainably is an


important challenge, given the National Audit Office have


highlighted rising costs and lower than expected participation rates.


One of the most important aspect of this bill in my view is to learn the


lessons of the kids Company there but, and to ensure the proper


reporting and accounting structures are in place for an organisation


that is receiving a large amount of government funding. It is important


to remember that while the NCS is an important surface it is not the only


youth service in town. There are others playing a vital role in


diverting young people from crime, supporting young carers, and


overcoming exclusion. They must not be deprived of the funding they need


to operate, and a survey conducted by the local government Association


which I think the honourable member from Saffron Walden referred to


earlier found 90% of industry has had cut services for teenagers. That


is of course as we know a reduction in government funding. Between April


2010 and 2016, they'll wear ?387 million cut from youth service


spending across the UK. Youth services of varying kinds play a


vital role in communities, providing real and ongoing benefits for young


people who need them, but crucially in many of these cases, the result


savings for the tax that payer, as they reduce costs later on down the


line. I am proud to say however that I support the principle is of the


legislation and am pleased to have seen such wide cross-party support


of the value of the NCS programme here today. With clear language in


the world Charter I believe the growly -- value of it could be


greatly enhanced. The young people of the site have a great energy and


ideas come and have an enormous amounts to contribute to their


community and country and country other hope the bill will allow them


to the role that potential. Thank you for calling me to speak in this


debate, and it is a pleasure to follow the honourable lady the


member for Redcar and would like to highlight the comment that she made


that the National Citizen Service should not be the preserve of those


who are confident, a lot of young people who perhaps lack confidence


and the encouragement to come forward are the targets of the


scheme, I would like to re-emphasise that point. Over the last couple of


years I have been delighted to attend an apple of -- number of


National Citizen Service meetings in Crawley. Local graduates of the


programme have spoken on a number of occasions, now. It is often said by


some that are young people don't care about the local area or have no


interest in getting involved in the community. An assertion can Deputy


Speaker, from our own experiences which I'm sure that all in this


house would contest. The National Citizen Service leads to increased


community engagement, awareness and social action, and I have seen this


for myself from the NCS participant in my constituency where the


initiative is delivered by the Crawley Town community foundation.


Cohort of the cohort have shown that they are truly committed to helping


those less fortunate than themselves and through the programme they


continue to come up with ways to raise funds and awareness for


important local causes. The national council for voluntary organisations


has previously called for greater collaboration between the voluntary


sector and the NCS, and as such closer working together could lead


to an even greater difference. I am sure that other operators would be


able to learn from what I have seen in Crawley, last year through their


social action projects the NCS participants works alongside a host


of local good causes, including Crawley open house, the Springboard


projects, Saint Catherine 's Hospice, the Olive tree Cancer


support centre, and save the children. I would like to take the


opportunity not only to commend Callie's NCS graduates but also to


thank them sincerely for raising more than ?7,400 across the three


NCS programmes last year. And for volunteering a total of over 7500


hours of their time to help these local organisations. This consists


of more than just fundraising alone. They have put together packs for the


homeless, and organised renovation works to help charities as well.


Madame liberty speaker at little over six months ago of course our


new Prime Minister right right honourable friend the member for


Maidenhead took office, before entering number ten for the first


time she stood on the steps of Downing Street and talked about the


importance of ensuring greater opportunity for all. The NCS helps


with that opportunity, a key hallmark of the National Citizen


Service is ensuring that young people are taught skills that they


can't learn in class. More than nine out of ten participants believe that


the NCS provides the opportunity to develop skills which would be useful


in future and analysis has shown that in the year after participants


that participation, the majority of NCS graduates they they have used


the skills already. The programme increases well-being and lowers


levels of anxiety with the greatest impact being found amongst those


from the poorest backyards. Madame liberty speaker, financial support


is available for the ?150 fee, and in fact the National Audit Office


take that in the average contribution was ?30, as result of


concessions and bursaries. In contrast, estimates show that in


2016, the cost per participant will exceed ?1800, an investment which


I'm sure members of the house would agree is were making. In 2015, 17%,


as previously heard, of NCS participants were eligible for free


school meals, compared with around 10% of young people from the general


population. Analysis of the summer 2014 programme, for example, has


shown that the NCS is estimated to have delivered social benefits


valued between ?17 million and ?250 million, benefits cuts ratios


between ?1 12 and ?3 98 for every ?1 spent. Research also shows that


fewer than half people between 18 to 24 voted at the last general


election, whilst more needs to be done in this regard and continues,


the NCS figure shows that participants are more likely to vote


and engage in our democracy after finishing the scheme. Indeed,


thousands of young people have been registered to vote what taking part


in the NCS. I am grateful to the government for its continued


enthusiasm supporting the initiative, and is like other right


honourable and honourable members I would like to pay tribute to former


Prime Minister David Cameron for establishing the National Citizen


Service and indeed his ongoing involvement after leaving public


office. The running of the NCS is not simply a case of a host of local


arbitrators doing their own thing independent both of each other and


established charity groups. I have seen in my own constituency through


the local provider, the Crawley Town community foundation, worked not


only with charities from West Sussex but also alongside trusts supporting


a host of league clubs in the delivery of the programme. Crawley


Town football club have backed the NCS over the years, including having


the programme participants having bucket collections for local causes


on match days, and holding graduation ceremonies in the stadium


suite overlooking the pets. This commitment is soon to go further


with additional events and announcement in the near future.


There is a regular exposure also on the club website and match they


programmes, and the impact of association with the local football


club cannot be underestimated. This bill will provide a duty on schools,


colleges and local and national government to inform young people


and their parents, particularly those from disadvantaged


backgrounds, of the skills and benefits that can be gained from the


National Citizen Service. One of the most powerful ways in which the NCS


can be routed is directly from the very people who have taken part.


Just another half of last year's Callie graduates are still involved


in the scheme, and indeed this is the highest figure across the whole


of the Kent and Sussex. With the Secretary of State tell the


house what assistance her department might be able to give the NCS


providers to ensure this rate can increase across the country in the


years ahead, and if her department may go further to assist the NCS


trust in ensuring best practice? This month, Crawley celebrates the


70th anniversary of its designation as a new town. It has been a time of


both reflection not only on the challenges facing us today but also


what makes such a strong community as well. The National Citizen


Service helps and encourages social cohesion, social mobility and social


engagement. The young adults taking part in programmes such as this, and


of course let's not forget the staff who helped deliver these schemes and


therefore these opportunities, are people we can all be proud of and


long may their fine might continue. It is a great speaker to follow the


honourable gentleman from Crawley, and to speak in this debate. I think


it has been very heartening to hear the widespread praise there is for


the National Citizen Service, and I would like to join in that because I


think it is an excellent scheme. The Secretary of State mentioned earlier


that the scheme is in England and in Northern Ireland, however I would


also like to put on record my praise for the excellent volunteering


element that forms part of the Welsh baccalaureate, and I think one of


the good things about these sorts of programmes is that we will be able


to share expertise and good ideas from wherever they come, both in


these islands and internationally, and I think that is a great strength


because I think that has always been the case with the best volunteering


programmes. I am sure the minister himself will be familiar, but I


would like to address the house on some of the points made by some of


the voluntary sector organisations about this bill. The national


council for voluntary organisations have spoken with some eloquence of


the programme as being part of a longer journey of social action and


volunteering. They have spoken of the importance of diversity, indeed


diversity of participants as being more important than numbers. And the


in crucial element of young people in the design of the programme. As


the charity aid foundation have really made a plea in deed in the


form of them wanting a new clause to be inserted into the Royal Charter


about the scheme is being part of the way of engaging young people


further and other social programmes like charity trusteeship, and they


make the point that of young trustees between the ages of 18 and


24, and when one realises that actually in this country I think it


is 12% of the population are 18 to 24, the number of trustees, that


falls to below 1% of all charity trustees, I think it is a very


important point, how we develop the scheme at the moment, by use of the


participants from that scheme to get involved as trustees, and in other


leadership roles. But I think as well we recognise many of us in our


middle ages here recognise that one doesn't stay at 15 to 17 forever,


and yet, and yet, and not everyone is in their middle age, as one of my


colleagues points out, but how do we developed volunteering, and how do


we developed a type of volunteering that brings people together, in a


sense what is the next step for volunteering from this bill? My


honourable member the Dagenham spoke about how volunteering in this


country doesn't really have any legal status, and indeed volunteers


of 18 and over, in fact not just 18 and over actually, could be


designated as not in employment, education and training, and for


those of 18 plus, of course, going on volunteering programmes, there is


no agreement that should mean national insurance contributions and


the like, and I think that is something as we take full of the


ideas of this bill, as we develop the ideas behind the National


Citizen Service, those are the sort of ideas that we need to develop.


Many of my colleagues, members on both sides of the house, have spoken


very passionately today about the whole issue of integration,


diversity, bringing people together, I think my honourable friend the


member for Barnsley gave a very, very moving quote that President


Obama made. It is not all about being in one's own little bubble,


talking to people who agree with ourselves, agreeing with those


people who then agree with ourselves. It is about coming


together with different people. I remember a television programme a


few years ago, and sitting on the stage, I think it was a sort of BBC


Parliament when we're not here type of programme, and sitting on the


stage was President Clinton. Former President Bill Clinton and former


President George W Bush, and they were discussing some sort of


leadership programme with young people that they had established in


the United States, and I can always remember what former President


Clinton actually said in that, he said the idea of bringing together


young African Americans who are active in their community, and


getting them then on the same programmes as young people who are


involved in the tea party, who believe that the world would be a


better place if everything operated in their small town, bringing


together those energies and with a synergy between them actually


creating something better for society, I'm not sure how much of


those ideas are in play in the US at the moment, but what a fantastic


idea of bringing together different groups, young people with different


ideas, and then being able to share those, and who knows what may be


able to come out after that? Because I think when we are looking at these


different sort of schemes, we don't know where this will lead. I hope


for instance that one area that we will look at is volunteering for


former young offenders, volunteering for people who have been in prison.


That step, sometimes, which is very great, that can take people out of a


life where people offend, go into jail, reoffend, go back into jail


and on and on. Is there a role specifically for volunteerism that


could actually bridge that gap from prison to employment, because that


is something as a next step we need to be thinking of, as well. As I


say, I would like to warmly commend this bill, and the ideas behind it.


I hope the resource and will be there and I hope the collaboration


and involvement with voluntary groups will be there. But I think


there are so, so many ideas that we need to think about volunteering,


and how that actually creates the sort of society that even if not


everyone wants to see it at the moment, and it is certainly the


society we are going to need to have. Thank you, Madam Deputy


Speaker. I am tried to be here today to support the NCS bill. It is one


of the best things that the last government led by Prime Minister


David Cameron did and I am delighted that the NCS is today being put on a


statutory fishing safeguarding its future as a national institution. It


is going to give hundreds of thousands of young people the


momentum for a young -- lifetime limit of volunteering. When I was at


school and university I chaired our debating societies, and one of the


notions that used to get put up was whether the National Service should


be read instituted, and it was very difficult to argue for that, both


because of the cost and because we did not lead a large force prepared


for military action. But there is lots of evidence of the other


benefits of National Service, which I can see the national citizenship


service. When I need to research these notions I go no further than


my late further -- father who did service in the 1950s with the Royal


Marines and the Durham Light Infantry, and he always would tell


you what a great social leveller the National Service was, because in


basic training you could be there in a dorm with people from Eton, with


stockbrokers, electricians, people from all different walks of life,


every conceivable background, but any pre-existing airs and graces you


had would quickly be squashed by a diet of exercise, hard work,


learning new skills and having to live, eat, sleep, work, do


everything together as a team. And that people who had been through


National Service were able to adapt better to the challenges life threw


at them, and to work better and interact better with people from all


different walks of life. So wind forward 50 years to the National


citizenship service, although we have none of the military training


of National Service, we do have those positive features that we saw


with National Service, the levelling effects with individuals from all


different walks of life coming together, where people are pushed


out of their comfort zones, when they are engaged in challenging


activities on equal footing. We also have the social atmosphere of people


living, eating, cooking together with people from every different


walk of life. And in addition to that the national citizenship


service has provided 8 million hours of voluntary work in the communities


in the UK. Graduates of the national citizenship service are likely to


contribute six hours more per month of voluntary work than people who


have not been through the scheme. Eight out of ten graduates of the


National said the ship service also said that they are more likely --


National Citizen Service that they are more likely to get on with


people from other backgrounds that they would not otherwise have had


the opportunity to meet. In Kingston upon Thames, which makes up Kingston


and Surbiton constituency, I have been to seeing the National Citizen


Service in action in both the years I have been an MP so far in 2015I


went to see volunteers doing their voluntary week when they were having


with the Wear Archer Academy's this ability sports taster day and last


year I was one of the Dragons on the Dragons Den for National Citizen


Service, where groups bid for extra funding for their social action


campaigning projects, and on both of those projects I took time to speak


to the young people involved. They had put them out of their shell and


given them a confidence they lacked before. Secondly, that they have the


opportunity to mix with people from the same borough, but who they had


never met before, people who had been to different schools, different


types of schools, people from different backgrounds. In the same


way as President John F. Kennedy's Peace Corps and President Lyndon B.


Johnson America corps, the National Citizen Service brings together


young people to go out and do good things in their communities and in


the world and the comeback with a mindset to help their local


communities. The NCS also does a huge amount for social integration.


That is why organisations like The Challenge, who support many of the


NCS project in urban areas like London, are calling for social


integration to be added to community cohesion as one of the stated aims


of the NCS in the draft royal charter. The Prime Minister has


spoken of the importance of social integration, and in my view, the


best way to get social integration right is to start when people are


right -- are young and to give them opportunities to integrate that


don't exist readily in every community. In her report on social


integration, Dame Louise Casey noted the role of the NCS in improving,


understanding and relationships between young people from different


backgrounds. 30% of NCS participants are from ethnic minorities, and in


Kingston that's 65%. 17% are on free school meals. The low admission fee


that can be waived if parents's circumstances require it is


undoubtedly very important in achieving this, and that is why the


huge financial investment in NCS for the lifetime of this parliament is


absolutely critical. The NCS can and should become one of the key tools


of social integration, so I am delighted it is being expanded and


put on a statutory footing today. Before concluding, I want to make it


clear to other organisations that encourage voluntary service and


teach young people life skills that the focus on the NCS no way


denigrates the fantastic work they do, and I include in that girl


guiding, the Scouts, the International citizenship service,


which is run by voluntary services overseas in my constituency, and the


many other charities like Chris list of element, formerly student


partnership worldwide, that I spent a number of months with honour


charity project in South India. They are all part of the rich tapestry of


volunteering and voluntary services for the youth today, but the


National Citizen Service with the funding behind it and the statutory


footing that will get today will lead the way.


The NCS should make sure it works where it puts young people into


voluntary placements with local charities for two reasons. Firstly,


they often have much less human and financial resources than the large


national charities and could really do with those additional volunteer


man hours from young enthusiastic NCS volunteers will stop secondly,


because if the NCS participant is going to develop a long-term


relationship with a charity or voluntary organisation, it is much


better that it is a local one in their community where they are based


and they can continue to serve. In conclusion, the NCS is the


fastest-growing youth movement of its kind for a century. I hope it


becomes a rite of passage and a national institution like the Peace


Corps and America corps are in the US. It gives young people from all


backgrounds the chance to mix and learn how to give something back to


their community. And it leads to a better society with more active and


responsible citizens, better engaged in their communities. Thank you.


Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is a pleasure to follow the


honourable member for Kingston and Surrey so can I start by saying I


agree with his marks about scouting and girl guiding and other


organisations and the contribution that they make, and also to what I


thought was a really good point about the way in which the Peace


Corps and America call in America contributed to many of the aims seek


to pursue here in Parliament, today. Can I say to the Minister that we


all on this and our front bench as well throw much welcome the bill and


think it is an important step forward in achieving the goals that


we all have stopped Madam Deputy Speaker and will start by just


saying that at a time when Brecht dominates, quite rightly, the


national debate, many of our debates here in Parliament, I think we


should at times say to the media and to the public at large that also


alongside that there are hugely significant and hugely important


debate which take place. The government brings important


statements forward and we respond and I think today is one of those


occasions. The National Citizen Service is a hugely, hugely


important initiative and the government seek to verb and build on


the progress that has been made with the bill that is brought forward


today. I have seen for myself in Nottingham and other honourable


members have recounted their experiences when they have been to


see the work done in their own areas that there is no better it is not


short of relevant some of the work done, some of the impact that young


people from different backgrounds, the influence that this programme


has upon them, and can I say one of the things, and one of the words


haven't been used yet, of particular importance, that when I saw and


which duly graduate ceremony is the self esteem, the self-esteem that it


brings in young people. If there is one thing that holds back many of


our young people as well as opportunity, background and so on,


it's a lack of self-confidence, a lack of self-esteem, a lack of


belief that they have something positive to offer and I think what


the NCS has done in many circumstances is generated that


self-esteem and belief that they have worse, they have something to


offer. If that is something that will in my view contribute and help


them through their lives, I think that is an enormous step forward.


Can I also say, Madam Deputy Speaker, that the other reason that


this is important, this debates today, is this. Clearly, there are


in this house and in the country different views on Brecht. And the


invitations that there are as a consequence of that. -- Brexit


different views on Brecht. There can be no division between us about the


need for us to continue to provoke the universal values of tolerance,


people coming together, of self-respect, of looking and


respecting others whatever ethnic background or religion or whatever,


those things, and the NCS has at its heart the promotion of those


universal values. I think at a time when there is somewhat concerned


about tolerance, there is some concern about divisions in our


community, surely it is right for us as a Parliament to say look at this


as a model of the way forward we want to see in our country, and our


communities go. So I think that this is hugely important. Let me just say


to the Minister just to, and again as a challenge to the government,


but also a challenge to all of us, and a challenge to this Parliament,


as it stands at the moment, according to the EN 80 report, 96%


of people but is abating in the scheme at the present time, and the


government 's intention, and the attention we all wish to support, in


21 -- 2021 to 360 thousand participants. That requires a order


percent annual growth. I hope as the bill goes through committee there


will be a challenge for the committee on the challenge for us to


look at how we actually are going to achieve that, how we are actually


going to increase as participation groups, and look at what are the


barriers to participation, and the report points out a couple of these.


First of all, brand awareness. The need for us to try to ensure that


more people are aware of the opportunities available through NCS,


and I think that is an important point for us. Secondly, access to


schools, and what we can do with respect to that, how we promote


that. Again, something that I think is hugely important and hugely


significant, and I'm sure that much good work is done in school but


alongside that there is something that we need to promote. I will say


this, but all are somehow or other needs to understand and to look at


how we can more effectively promote the work of the NCS, and what it is


and opportunities that there are. Of course. Thank you Madam Deputy


Speaker and I thank my honourable friend forgiving way. Would you also


agree with me that part of that broadening from those numbers, and


about 40% is a large growth, but it will also need a large number more


volunteering projects for those children to all attend and benefit


from, and that actually is something that the work of those of us in this


chamber could help with, but it would be interesting to know how the


government is going to fulfil that, as well, in order to get more


children into residential homes, playgroups, right across the


spectrum of how they help. That's a very good point. A point well made.


The Minister will have heard that. As I say, I think the challenge for


us is to look to see how we increase the number of volunteering


opportunities that the honourable member said and how we as a


Parliament challenge ourselves to deliver the objectives that we have,


it is not a criticism to turn around and say we haven't got the numbers


that we would all like, it is a challenge will stop it is not for us


to say the government is wicked, the opposition are terrible, it is us as


a Parliament to say this is a collective view, about what is good


for our country and our young people. And therefore what is it


that we have to do in order for us to achieve that objective? I think


that the big challenge for us because there are imaginative thing


that needs to be thought about and different things that need to be


looked at. When you think about this, my honourable friend looked up


for me because I didn't know the answer, there are 1.5 million 16 and


17-year-olds in our country and in my own view every single one of them


would benefit from an NCS type programme. So, we are talking about


how we increase participation, and I say this to the Minister, I am not


criticising, I am saying we are talking about how we increase it to


360,000, and saying that is a massive challenge... And yet all of


us who would agree that is something that all of our young people would


want to experience was how we do that, how we deliver that is the


challenge. And the question we need to ask ourselves. Can I just


finished, Madam Deputy Speaker, with this point. It is so important, this


business of integration and how we bring people together, my honourable


friends and honourable members are talked about the need to reach the


harder to reach groups and some of the worrying statistics we saw in


that report and we need to look at that, and clearly participation is


an issue but it is hard to reach all young groups. Can I just say this? I


think inspiration is hugely important whether it be to an ethnic


group, between social groups, whether it be to hard to reach


groups or people who are well off and so on, let me also say this to


the Minister. We must also look at it in terms of integration in terms


of the regional divides that are there politically in our country.


The divide between rural and urban areas. They divide not only between


look white and black and all of those sorts of things that we would


want to see overcome, but what about the generational divide? The fact


that we see many people... I must finish. He makes an interesting


point. He talks about bringing people together from different parts


of society and the country, and one of the ambitions yet to be achieved


is actually the people in my constituency in Sussex may come from


different parts of society but they don't mix with his constituents in


Nottinghamshire and vice versa, and we need to extend this scheme so


that we can bring people from different parts of the country and


different parts of the King and, ultimately, to share their


experiences. I agree absolutely with that, that is the point I am making.


I will finish with this point, Madam Deputy Speaker, that one of the most


interesting things, and I'm sure we have done it all, when we see young


people talking to old people, and their different perspectives and


bringing history alive, and as a former teacher of history, when old


people talk about history to young people they brought it alive to


them. I think those sorts of ways of bringing people together, the ways


of overcoming division, whether I say as it is between classes and


generations, it is the great strength of the NCS and what I think


that we need to do and to be more open with ourselves about is to say


we have huge ambition for ourselves and for our country. We shouldn't be


afraid of having that huge ambition, that is a challenge for us, about


how we actually deliver that, and not something we should shy away


from. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker, and is is a pleasure to


follow the honourable gentleman, the member for Gedling. I welcome the


opportunity to speak on this bill and take part in this debate and I


think we should, you know, we should recognise all the work that has gone


into the NCS programme by those who work on the scheme, those who have


developed the scheme and of course I would like to add to the record my


thanks to all the work that David Cameron has done and I believe


continues to do in relation to NCS. Before coming to this place, Madam


Deputy Speaker, I was involved in a number of social action projects as


members on this side of the chamber will probably be aware, both in the


UK and some overseas. One thing that I always took away from that was


yes, we had some young people the more we had some older people on


there, but the way in which social action projects can bring together


people from all walks of life, and you often find that you are in a


challenging situation, in experiencing new things that you


have never experienced before, and I think there is a lot that we can all


learn from social action projects. In particular, in the summer of


2015, that's just over a year ago, I was invited to join young people who


were taking part in an NCS project in my Oldridge Brownhills


constituency, a project called the hothouse, on the red house estate in


Aldridge. I think it is fair to say with my usual enthusiasm for things


social action I turned up and much to the surprise of some of my


constituents and some of the young people may be as well, I was more


than habit is get stuck in and I joined in with a little bit of, more


than a little bit of painting. What took away from that was this was a


group of young people, some from the same school, others from different


schools, but who had been brought together by the NCS erbium. They


were working together as a group, working together at the hothouse,


and members of the community coming into the hothouse during the time


that they were undertaking the project there and the Hothouse to me


is a very special place in the constituency, on the heart of the


red house estate, the heart of the community, and doing a lot of


support work, and I think it was really good example of, you know,


NCS at the heart of the local community, people working together,


different ages, different backgrounds but... And this is the


important thing for the mutual benefit of the community, and it is


a great example of how social interaction and social integration


really well and can work. I think this is what is so special about the


NCS, it is that he quite unique to me. This is something that we need


to hold onto as we move forwards. The ability to reach out to a broad


base of young people, and we know that the NCS already reaches out,


and this is what we need to maintain, but I feel that we need to


do all we can to make sure that goes further than that, that it builds


further, and what I am talking about is the things that we see are really


did, we see projects reaching out to some of those hard to reach groups,


the free school meals groups, the BME communities, but I wonder


whether there are other groups as well that we need to be finding ways


to reach out to and into. Some of those groups we talk about


just about managing, those families. Young people who do not seek NCS as


naturally for them, perhaps they lack the confidence to put their


name forward. That is where we need to be really sure in the work we're


doing in this place, that we do all we can to make sure they have that


opportunity as well. For NCS to be truly National Service, and I think


that is what it is edging towards, that is what we have to do. This


bill is an important step towards making NCS and national institution.


NCS, as we have heard this afternoon, is often the first step


for young people in their youth social action participation. As I


have seen for myself, it is a huge contributor to community in terms of


volunteering, social integration and social cohesion. The research and


research I did, I believe a typical programme is 30 hours. If you


multiply that by 300,000 young people, that adds up to an awful lot


of hours of time spent in the community, working on social action,


building social capacity but my maths are not good enough to add up


to how many that would be. Safe to say, it makes a massive contribution


to our country. And to my constituency like others. In 2016,


78 young people from Aldridge-Brownhills took part.


Across Birmingham the total was 5786 during last summer. I think that is


terrific but I want to seem more and I want is the way is through this


bill we can make sure it reaches out and achieve that. As I said, to


young people from all walks of life. When I was researching, one question


I was key to ask, how many of my local schools were involved in the


project? I was pleased to hear that all of the schools in my


constituency had been involved and I think that is a good example of how


NCS is starting to reach out right across all of those skills, all of


those young people in my patch. -- those schools. We have heard about


the review this afternoon, I would like to reiterate one point which


was made in the recent Casey review about integration in the UK, it


stated that the NCS programme is having a positive impact in


improving and understanding relationships between young people


of different backgrounds, something I think is really important. It is


not just about the social action, not just about doing in the


community, it is about so many other things, intergenerational


integration as well as social integration. Community cohesion. The


honourable member spoke about the impact of Brexit and the need to


bring our country together. The Prime Minister speaks about the need


to bring communities and the country together. I think NCS has an


important role to play in doing that as well. As we have said this


afternoon, it is also about developing those life skills. Life


skills that are not always taught in schools or even at home but that can


be taught and developed through the NCS programme. I believe in an


environment where young people feel safe to be able to develop their


skills and learn from one another. It is an excellent opportunity for


young people to experience social action. In a way which bit by bit


across communities and across the country is making a difference and


contributing to social cohesion and social integration. As I said, I


hope this is something we can build on with this bill. It is not just


about young people of today or the young people of tomorrow, for me it


is about the future, the future we all want to see, a country that


works together and is cohesive and not forgetting that at the heart of


the NCS is and should be the fact that young people come together from


all walks of life. It does not matter if you're black or white,


working-class or middle-class, whatever background you come from,


we all have that opportunity to take part in the NCS programme. Thank


you, Madam Deputy Speaker, I am proud to be part of this debate


today and to say this bill come of age. NCS comes of age with this bill


just as NCS is a coming of each project. I am very proud of the


small part I played in its Genesis, having been the back in 2005 when it


was a germ of an idea by the then Prime Minister who spoke to youth


leaders and tasks what became the youth advisor for David Cameron to


go out and develop the programme. I was asked to be part of that. In


2008, we published the report, it is time to inspire teenagers, a white


paper which to the subject of what the NCS. The scheme was designed on


the principles laid out in that unofficial white paper, with the


help of people like Steve Hilton who had an even more ambitious idea for


the scheme, that it should take at least six weeks long throughout the


summer. It should be called National Service and would be much closer to


the original scheme of which it has some echoes but also that it should


be compulsory. After a great deal of research, I remember spending many


weekends with groups of fantastic talkative young people from Leeds,


Liverpool and London who had some amazing ideas as to how such a


scheme should develop, we put together what Ben became the


National Citizen Service. It was intended to be a rites of passage


scheme. We do transition into adult food really badly in this country.


Other countries and cultures, there is no point in a teenager's life


when you can be said to transition into adult food and get respect from


society as an adult but we do not do that. Too often growing up is


characterised by negatives. You become adult when you have had your


first flag behind the bike shed or when you become a teenage pregnancy


statistic. Negatives about how we judge the progress of young people.


This game is all but the positives of young people. If you go through


the scheme which is rigorous and challenging, designed to do so, and


unique no sacrifice as part of it, then you deserve the right to be


respected and valued as an adult with a voice in society. That was


one of the guiding principles behind this scheme when it was set up. It


was also absolutely about social mixing. We have many other good


schemes and have had them for many years, but none of them are as


successful as social mixing as NCS has become. Too often kids from the


same school or neighbourhood may go on an outward bound to project,


linked to some local youth organisation but not often enough at


a mix-up with people they would never come across order narrowly or


pass the time of day with in the street from the other side of town,


the other side of the tracks or the country is so social mixing was


absolutely at the heart of all this. It was also about challenging young


people, taking them out of their comfort zone. This is not a holiday


camp. I have been on many NCS challenges over the years. My


honourable friend said she took up the challenge of having to paint. I


have been forced to go on Jake's ladder and climbing walls which is


no mean feat, especially when the young people have to hold you up.


The challenge means just as much for them. I met kids who have never been


out of the city, who had never been out on the mirrors and never been


near the Brecon Beacons or the Lake District. These were challenging and


frightening experiences but this was part of NCS, getting taken out of


your comfort zone and getting shown there is more to life and with the


help of your team been able to conquer it. Literally, I have seen a


kid right out of youth justice establishment holding one end of a


rope, and the other end of the rope is an old Etonian dangling off the


wall. Two people who would not normally come together are thrown


together and absolutely rely on one another to get through that


challenge. That is why the scheme is so successful, that was one of the


guiding principles and also about engendering a sense of social


responsibility and community cohesion as sustainably as well. As


the honourable member for Gedling mentioned, it is about self-esteem


and confidence. So much of the feedback from young people in the


scheme is when you go in the graduation ceremony, they have to


perform and speak in front of an audience of hundreds, they all say I


would never have been able to do that if it was not for the scheme.


These challenges inspire them with confidence. That is a great seeing


from the late great ammeter Roddick who said, if you think you're too


small to make a difference, try going to bed with a mosquito. The


whole point of NCS was too unleashed a swarm of mosquitoes, young people


who on their own might not have much affect but by being valued in such a


scheme and working together with other like-minded people, actually


have the confidence to go out and make a difference. It was part of


this scheme being positive for youth policy which we developed in the


Department of education as well. It should not be seen in isolation. It


is not a scheme for its own sake, it is part of a bigger jigsaw about how


we empower, engage and inspire confidence in young people. It is


also about society gaining respect for young people. One big problem we


have in society is an intergenerational divides. Too often


older people regard younger people as a bit reckless and a bunch of


hoodlums. Too often younger people think older people are too set in


their ways, detached and retrograde, etc. NCS is about young people doing


something worthwhile, being seen to do something worthwhile, making


sacrifices and gaining respect from society, not least older people,


trying to bring those generations together. That is one of the biggest


challenges we still have in our society in this country. My vision


in developing NCS was that we would have projects set up throughout the


country, sustainable projects, it may be nature conservation, health


projects, a huge variety. We have heard some good examples. There


would be a big sign saying this project is part of National Citizen


Service, setup and run by young people. What a fantastic billboards


and adverts for the constructive stuff our young people do, too often


denigrated by the rest of society and especially the media. We know


proportionally that young people are more likely than any other


generation to be volunteers, spending their time volunteering and


they are not getting credit for it. NCS is one way of making that more


high-profile. When it started in 2009, 160 young people went through


it. My fear was this would be used as some sort of cheap middle-class


-- cheap summer holiday camp by the middle classes. How wrong I was. 60%


of the people on it were a young black girls from the inner-city.


They did fantastically well. We had to encourage the middle classes to


get involved in this as well and eventually this happened. We came


into government in 2010, the responsibility we shared between the


Cabinet office and the Department of education. We had a small budget to


start with and no budget to promote or publicise the scheme but it


really took off. At a difficult time of austerity, at a time when youth


services were being unduly and unfairly hit through local authority


cuts in funding, but it got off the ground. Six years on, Madam Deputy


Speaker, more than 300,000 teenagers have now taken part. Some 93,000 in


the last calendar year. The en route -- the honourable gentleman is


correct, the court is something like 170000 and absolutely the scheme


should be available to all. We need to be realistic and make sure we do


not die with the quality of what is being offered. The availability of


good quality, well-trained leaders is the only thing holding this back.


I do not want to artificially reach that target which might the expense


of Dai Whittingham value and quality of the programme. That is? About bed


capability of NCS to train up leaders within its own organisation


and for graduates to come back as leaders themselves rather than porch


them from other youth groups which would not be... The figures about


the social and ethnic mix. 30% of people doing the scheme are from BMI


communities. As many honourable members will have


done to go to those graduation ceremonies, many are given a


certificate, and many will stop their stuff, I went to one at


Wembley Stadium where 1000 young people and graduated through the


various football schemes in front of a thousand people in the audience,


every one of them getting up their bit. It was a hugely uplifting


emotional site and the number of parents who come up to me afterwards


saying this is the best scheme I have ever had or my son or daughter,


why do you keep it such a secret? That is not of the problem, this


scheme is hugely undersold in terms of the actual outcomes and


achievements and good that it does. I want to see, again, as was


envisaged, I want to see some really good examples of the social action


projects which have come about through the NCS featured in


television programmes, featured in national use -- newspapers and


magazines, and a every year, which was, between the best social action


projects, in certain different categories. We need an equivalent of


the Oscars for the National Citizen Service to show people really what


is being achieved by the most inspiring and dedicated young


people, and all those behind them. I am a big supporter, Madam Deputy


Speaker, of the NCS and of this bill here today. Have a couple of


technical comments to take up in the bill itself. In clause one,


subsection two, it says the purposes of this section, young people mean


mean 16 or 17-year-old, or other people 15 or 18 but under the age of


25. Madame Debord is bigger I don't know many 16 or 17-year-olds or 15


the Court 18-year-olds not under the age of 25 colours are not entirely


sure what that clause is doing there. The other point I would make


is in the same subsection, talking just about England, and we know that


the scheme at the moment is confined to include although we have tried in


the past and extended to other parts of the Kingdom but of course it is a


devolved matter, and Northern Ireland in particular showed a lot


of interest in this. I would hope that the National Citizen Service


can become a UK wide programme, with the buy in of the assemblies and


parliaments in the other parts of the United Kingdom and I would hope


that we would not have do have a new piece of Liz to make that possible


because that will best track this builds dust -- does just limit it to


England at the moment. In the section about reports, all our


standard and absolutely but to be constructively critical and I point


raised eye with the secretary of state earlier this is not just about


numbers, it is not just about the quality of this specific, explicit


programme itself, it's not just about the amount of money we are


spending on it, but it needs to be seen in the context of the wider use


offer as well. -- you've offer. We need to be able to judge, and there


needs to be able to be a mechanism to do this and this was raised also


in the other place, that how we raise and judge the quality of what


the NCS is achieving, against other youth programmes and the value for


money we are getting against other investments in other youth


organisations as well. This cannot be seen as a stand-alone


intervention for young people will stop NCS is not just there for NCS's


state that I go sake, and of course it only starts at the age of 16 and


thereabouts, and the problem is that the NCS tries to address starts


earlier and need early intervention as well, some 42% of young people


more fully committed to social action began getting involved before


the age of ten. And the scouts point out that the NCS three-week


programme which costs around ?1500 per person, although the National


Audit Office has come up with a new report is raising that is too near


1860. The Scouts will claim that they can offer similar ideas for


?400, and have a huge waiting list because I haven't got enough people


to be Scout leaders. That is fine. There are places for both, and


particularly if the NCS is providing leaders as it is intended to do, not


just to help lead the NCS but also to help all other youth


organisations, immunity organisations as well, the NCS is a


recruiting Sergeant, if it works properly, for a whole host of other


youth organisations, whose expansion can often be detailed by the lack of


youth leaders and properly trained youth experts as well. So, my plea,


Madam Deputy Speaker, is that we need more detail, to make it more


sustainable, and to make it more complimentary and not conflictual


with other youth organisations doing some really good stuff in other


parts of the kingdom, that we need to make sure that we can justify its


expense and its quality in the greater context of what else is


going on as well. So, there's a lot of ambition in NCS, a lot of it has


come about, and a lot more needs to be done to make it more widely


available to a great many more young people who can benefit from it just


as the evidence has showed, 300,000 have so far. We need some guarantees


about value for money across the whole of the sector, about the


quality impact across the whole sector, and about the sustainability


of ongoing volunteering in those NCS graduates, not just for the duration


of the scheme, itself, but how those social action products are not just


therefore a matter of weeks but they are there for the perpetuity, with


other local organisations, local authorities local businesses and


volunteers helping to run those projects in between those some


experiences for the NCS cohorts. So I do wish this bill well, there are


some questions I think which have come up during committee which will


add yet further to the quality of this programme, but more


importantly, and yet further to the enthusiasm of other people involved


in helping young people in our society today. And if there is one


good thing, well, there's lots of good things, but if there is one


good thing that we can all agree on that has come out of the Brexit


debate which has been mentioned even though this subject, and I have


avoided mentioning it so far, is that the turnout of young people in


the Brexit referendum, when it wasn't called the Brexit referendum,


but some six to 3%. It the turnout of young people in the normal


general election of some 43%. NCS can be part of the solution for


persuading and encouraging people to be part of the decision-making in


our society, it is a great example of how young people are involved in


its design, and it should be a great example of how young people should


be continuing to be involved in the fabric of the future of our country


as a whole. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker and like all other speakers


I welcome this bill which secures the future of the NCS through the


Royal Charter. I join others who have congratulated the former Prime


Minister David Cameron for his role as a driving force for the scheme.


My own constituency has got some considerable success on this. When


the scheme started there were just 45 who joined the initial cohort,


where that has now increased to over 1200. And I think one of the reasons


for that is that it is a dedicated and dynamic leadership of Lee


Stevens who sat in public gallery and I pay tribute to his dedication


not only by the leading scheme but also having sat through not only the


whole of this debate but the question Time that preceded it. It


was mentioned earlier by the honourable gentleman from idling


about the differences, Howard brings together at the differences and


divides between our own country people, and he spoke of rural and


regional divides, and representing them as I do, the coastal community


with the problems of poor educational standards and the like,


I recognise the importance of it and NCS has played a major part in that.


Those who participate are able to gain new schools, enhance their CV,


and it helps with the transition from school to perhaps further


education. The value of the schools, in the Lincolnshire part of my


constituency has been recognised by the fact that now every secondary


school and Academy has signed up to the programme, as well as the two


colleges who are both working to integrate NCS into their curriculum.


Only last Friday, I visited my old school, have a lock school in


Grimsby where the headteacher was explaining to me the difficulties


she has with a catchment area which is, shall we say, in one of the port


towns. In fact, the catchment area includes the yeast Marsh award of


Grimsey, which is ranked amongst the 20 poorest wards in the country,


when ranked by the various social economic indicators. There is no


doubt that NCS has played a major part in bringing forward young


people from all parts of the community in the Cleethorpes


constituency and the surrounding areas. Now, over the last three or


four years I have visited many projects in the constituency just to


mention three come if I may. The Saint Andrew 's Hospice in Grimsby,


and the Harbour Place Centre for the homeless, but also some work that


young people did for the Alzheimer's Society, and I can recall a year or


two ago visiting a care home where they were helping residents who


suffered from dementia, and I think it is important that our young


people realise is actually a growing problem in our ageing society, and


many went on to work, again, with those sufferers when the scheme had


finished and that is a great tribute to them and to those who organise


it. There have also been schemes such as tidying up some local


cemeteries. I can remember going to a enthusiastic group involved last


summer in repainting new Waltham visit leg-macro village hall, a very


colourful haul now. The list could go on. Our a more technical aspect


of the bill, I welcome them in particular, clauses five and six,


that relates to the business plan is and the annual report, both of which


I think emphasise each year they give us a focused attention on the


targets, and that we do want to make sure that the scheme does not run


out of steam but continues to prosper. Young people can get a bad


press, but the vast majority, as we all know, are a credit boat to their


families and to their local communities. Society today as it


always has faces many challenges, and if we can develop the natural


skills and enthusiasms of our young people, then they can through the


NCS, will make a major contribution to society. The scheme gives them a


sense of satisfaction, a growing sense of self-confidence, and a


realisation that by giving to the community in which they live, they


can fill not only many of their own aspirations but contribute greatly


to the society and to the community in which they live. Madam Deputy


Speaker I give my wholehearted support to the scheme, many of us


will have seen groups of young people and indeed individuals who


have prospered and gone on to greater things as a result of the


NCS scheme, and I think I welcome the bill, I urge ministers to take


note of what's been said. It's been a debate where there has been a


mutual support and respect for the bill from all sides of the house at


a time when we have been talking about divisions and how to bring


cross-party support to some of what are perhaps the more contentious


aspects of policy. I think this is something that we can learn from and


I that members across the house will bear that in mind. Thank you, Madam


Deputy Speaker. Madam Deputy Speaker I share the sentiment of my


honourable friend for Cleethorpes in describing some of the NCS social


action project that his constituency has engaged in.


I agree with almost everything which is being said today by so many


members of the House and either side. I agree with my honourable


friend in his comprehensive speech about the jigsaw of empowerment for


young people which the NCS is part of. I agree about the importance of


coming together and learning tolerance. I agree with the


honourable member for Queen of the South about the power of the NCS to


inspire volunteering although she was holding the papers so far from


her face that I wondered in the spirit of volunteering I should


offer her my spectacles. Madam Deputy Speaker, today we celebrate


the transformation of the NCS from an idea to something which has


shaped the lives of over 300,000 young people and now heads towards


Royal Charter status. An extraordinary journey. The three key


aspects, social cohesion, social engagement and social mobility. 30%


of all participants are from ethnic minorities for example. Any of us


could have hosted sessions and could be given certificates. I will never


forget getting a father with his daughter who did an NCS scheme and


he said his daughter had changed completely after going on that


course. He said that she had seen much more of life and she had before


and that she was much more confident now and quote, it is down to the


NCS. No surprise that nine out of ten young people feel they have


learned important skills for the future, and that is from an


independent valuation of the scheme. No surprise they feel more confident


about getting jobs later on. These figures show some room for


improvement but it would be in the spirit of a sports coach who tells


the winner of an Olympic medal, you can do better than that. That was


roughly the ambition of the Member for Croydon North, the is always


room for improvement. First, today is a good time to look back to the


start of the NES -- of the NCS when none of the success was expected or


predicted. It is right to congratulate the former Prime


Minister and all those involved in the start-up. I would like to thank


those in the Cabinet office at the time. It was good to you the Member


for Dagenham also save us from the opposition benches. And although


civil servants who have been involved in putting together the


programme. In the five years the NCS has existed, the numbers of


participants from Gloucestershire have expanded rapidly. 1592 so far


which puts us third out of 127, just inside the top. 216 in this year


alone came from Gloucester. I have been delighted by this. I have been


delighted to support and encourage participation in the NCS. If I could


wave one magic wands, it would be to involve every teenager in our city


of Gloucester and every teenager in the country to join the programme.


For some, like the two groups this year who went on a tall ship, manned


the mass and worked night shifts, it has stretched them and taken out of


comfort zones with the experiences which will remain in their minds


forever. I think the honourable member for Canterbury, his plea


earlier for retaining adventure training would approve of these


experiences. The results of the work for community and that is incredibly


important, like the redecoration of the Gloucester city farm cafe or


making a video to promote an online counselling service. From the


Gloucester college courses are alone, some ?60,000 worth of cash


and goods have been raised by the participants for good causes in our


city and county and that really has made a difference. To take this


forward, after the evaluation of the any all report, it seems to be


building on success. Let me comment briefly, in the spirit of room for


improvement, which is the second part of the debate. First, I agree


that the average cost to the taxpayer is ?1800 for each


participant then it must be possible to reduce this in order to make


available to as many people as possible but not I hope at the cost


of squeezing out some of the more expensive adventures. I also hope


the letter from each MRC which is presumably in the same letter which


gives national insurance numbers and therefore no extra cost, will


inspire more participation and gets the message across more widely. I am


not sure about widening the eligible age group is fine as 25. The social


benefits of teenagers spending a month together is a huge improvement


but I worry that mixing 25-year-olds and 16-year-olds... I see his head.


So I presume this will not happen but it would bring difficult


dynamics. -- ICN shaking his head. Only 25% of members of our own House


participate, this is a rite of passage which I believe we should


all support. I have some sympathy for Saffron Walden's comments about


measurement. I believe that is something important which can be


captured, which is what happens to people who've gone on an NCS course


afterwards. The confidence gained and in the jobs market. It is the


young people themselves who will put a value on the NCS with their


recommendations to those younger than them and their analysis of what


has led to their future growth so the NCS has been a success, no doubt


about that. Its founders should be proud. We should also not forget


congratulate those who made it happen on the ground, the colleges,


charities and other organisations who run courses. The volunteer


mentors and the participants themselves who created and run such


spectacular social action projects. Madam Deputy Speaker, today is more


than an NCS lovefest. It is about the next stage and reaching more


young who are more difficult to reach and everyone doing new and


challenging adventures outdoors and indoors so that one and more


families across the land say the NCS is not yet another action which were


not sure what it stands for, but as the symbol of a life changing


moment, a month in their lives which will do is much to build stronger


communities all around us as anything else I know and honest we


change the perceptions or what our young are capable of. Thank you,


Madam Deputy Speaker, it is a real pleasure to follow my friend from


Gloucester. I wish she had that magical wand because I know he is


great champion of young people has done a huge amount of work in his


own constituency for young people. It is a wonder how he has not yet


made it as a minister. I am delighted to speak in this debate,


NCS has done -- on a long way since the initial pilots. Thousands of


young people have benefited from the opportunities with 93,000 in 2016


alone. I'm staggered only 25% of MPs have had the opportunity to seed a


fantastic work going on in their constituencies. I have visited every


stage in the transformation, I have taken part in assault courses, I


have been a dragon and mentors, I have not forgiven the five-year-old


who took me out in 20 seconds, I have attended graduation ceremonies


and I have bought a lot of cakes in charity sales. I visit this not just


as an MP and local resident but as a former employee -- form an employer


who employed a lot of young people. I was impressed by the total


transformation of the young people who had taken advantage of this


fantastic opportunity, many of the speakers have already highlighted


the skills, team skills, public speaking, confidence, many of us


could learn from those public skills being displayed. To understand and


appreciate their local communities. We have seen that has led to a total


of 8 million additional hours of voluntary work within our local


communities and that is fantastic. Also the maturity, learning those


life skills which are so important to transition from school into the


real world, securing those first jobs. When the logo of NCS says yes,


it generally refers to the opportunities that they apply for.


The other thing I noticed at the graduation ceremonies is how proud


the parents are in the transformation of their children.


They talk about how nervous they were about signing up, questioning


whether it was the right thing to do. I have to be credit to the NCS


website. The NCS website is fantastic, it has success stories,


it is confident and enthusiastic and you can say why those nervous


youngsters take that great step to sign up for the costs because what


surprises a lot of people, you anticipate they all know one


another. They have all collectively decided to go from one class but it


is a random collection of people, stepping outside their comfort zone,


giving up their valuable summer holidays to do something


constructive. Yes, it is enjoyable but often they do not realise how


enjoyable. I want this to succeed. Our Secretary of State and the


Minister are so passionate about this, I want to say their passion


for themselves. I have a few requests. Bristol: number of


speakers have highlighted how we would like to seek every young


person have that opportunity. -- first of all. There has been a


problem in terms of promotion but I welcome in the Royal Charter which


is planned, every young person will be written to. This brings back


happy memories of mail I received as a child. This will give every single


child that opportunity to sign up. I would encourage that that is


extended to schools, to remind them of bursaries available. I have


spoken to a number of head teachers in my constituency to say what an


opportunity would be from children from Channel -- challenging


backgrounds and they were not aware of the bursary system. The speakers


highlighted the brilliant social action projects which have taken


place, I have seen some fantastic one but I think NCS needs to do


something to build a database because sometimes they have


struggled to come up with meaningful projects. The best cases are aware


that as a tangible link in the groups. I saw one on ones where are


very confident young girl was presenting to me to say why they had


chosen the Swindon's women's refuge. The reason she was so passionate was


because at a younger time in her life, her family had had to use that


refuge so she personally benefited from the service and convinced her


friends and colleagues this was the one they should put their energy


into. We had that extra incentive to go and make a difference. I also


think there should be more information to -- provided on how to


carry out those social action projects. They go out and contact


business, the great thing about young people is their very cheeky


and with their energy, they have some very successful social action


projects by have also seen some lost, some confused about what to do


and missed the opportunity to really make a difference. Whenever


possible, I would encourage living in mentors to road test the ideas


before they deliver projects. There are countless local business people


who would be happy to give up their time to support these fantastic


projects. I also want to look at quality because again, I have been


visiting since 2012 and I have seen every part of the process. I have


seen some fantastic ones and some less good ones. I have a concern


that in recent years, with some of the changes to contractors, some of


the staff delivering this have become too young. Initially, in


Swindon, it was delivered by the Swindon College and another college,


the staff delivering it were lectures who were doing additional


work over the summer. They instantly had the respect of the young adults,


which is a particular challenge at the start as young people have not


developed all those girls which become given by the end. Sometimes


some of the younger staff struggled to hold the line. They are too


integrated with their students. It is very important we get that right.


The advantage of having the colleges involved is the already have the


buying in of the students. It is not a surprise that numbers have fallen


away since the colleges have ceased to lead on this. This is something I


think is vital. I know it is complicated but there does need to


be some real deep thinking in a procurement exercise. Many speakers


have topped about the ?1800 cost. One of the challenges is finding


facilities to use. I do not understand why as a society, we have


fantastic college facilities which are often empty during the school


holidays which is when the NCS courses take place, so we then seek


NCS providers paying for other facilities which they could use


other facilities without being charged which could be deployed to


other facilities within the programme.


Some of his thoughts echo mine. 455 graduates in others there were in


the project that breach would care home where they worked on disability


access local businesses, local volunteers and people donating wound


and stone and fountains that it was a project that had a lasting effect


and that is trying to make sure that all these products are highlighted,


he makes a good point about that. Is a powerful intervention because that


highlights the real power, the real difference and the real boost to the


local community, and I'm delighted and it is a credit to the team in


the area that he represents what a difference they make. Finally, many


of the speakers have been tempted to make suggestions of how we could


tweak what was has been done and how we can empower people, the dreaded


exit word was even mentioned. Please don't do this. Please don't ruin


something that is working so well. There is nothing -- nothing worse


then went out of touch adults prescribed what young people want to


do. It is a success because students are shape it. The NCS use board is


integral to what they deliver, they know best, they have done it, they


are young, they understand what young people want. I know we are


well-meaning and well-intentioned but please let the young people


decide how to do that. Our involvement is as mentors,


supporters, to showcasing that work highlighting its been local media


and highlighting the best that our young people can offer and this is


the parents jobs in being grateful for. Thank you, Madam Deputy


Speaker. It has been fantastic to sit through the debate and listen to


how much passion there is about such an amazing organisation as the


National Citizen Service, and it is a pleasure to follow on from my


honourable friend and all the other members who have made the tundra


regions do this debate, too. They have been a huge advocate over their


time in Parliament to engaging with young people in their constituencies


from across the entire house, and it is sometimes awkward for myself, at


age 30, to go in front of a National Citizen Service group and speak to


them about what young people are thinking, when I am virtually around


about ten years older than they are. This place has however to do a lot


more in order to engage with young people and I think the National


Citizen Service engages Billy Mack plays a huge part in that local


parliaments do. I echo all comments made by members across the floor,


engaging the National Citizen Service. That is the shore. I


support the fantastic bill, and in fact should declare an interest. I


am very jealous of what the National Citizen Service does, I have heard


first-hand and seen first-hand some of the amazing thing is happening


with the actual citizen service, a week away, days away, and I have to


say like my honourable friend for Worthing and east shore, they might


end up have two push me up the rock climbing face at some point too.


Something has missed in this debate, and one thing that has underpinned


the National Citizen Service does and that is the aspect of fun. The


main reason why young people want to get involved in the NCS is because


it is fun and it is something that they want to enjoy, to get involved


in as well. This isn't about the government telling people young


people that they have to go and join the NCS, this is through


word-of-mouth, and the rampant rise that we have heard across the floor


today has been because of the fact that the young people have gone


through the programme and have told other people that they have really


enjoyed it and had a great time and they should also be able to enjoy it


too. That is why we have seen in this increase in the number of


people attending and joining the NCS. I have attended for the last


two years, have been honoured to present graduation certificates for


the NCS was joining forces, the organisation that runs the NCS in my


constituency and they have been so successful now that they are also


expanding out to other areas of the UK, T. Ex-servicemen who are really


starting to promote the work that they are doing into areas like these


of England, four example. They are designing programmes for young


people and adults to succeed in life and I have to say that while example


really does stick in the back of my mind from the last graduation


service, ceremony that I went to earlier on last year. It really


shows to me how great the NCS is and it stuck with me, now, for quite a


long period of time. At the graduation from a young man stood up


and made a speech saying that if it wasn't for joining forces and the


NCS programme he would not be able to speak in front of 200 strong


audience made up of parents and his peers. A difficult decision for any


young person to make and he previously struggled in


conversations with two or three people, and couldn't imagine


speaking to such a large audience. The NCS programme gave him huge


amounts of confidence to push the boundaries he had previously never


expected to achieve and I'm pleased to say that this bill and the


government putting it through is getting even more young people the


opportunity and chance to develop those skills that will help them


later in life. Where else at the end of the day do 15 to 17-year-olds no


matter what their background is to be get the chance to develop these


key life skills in a safe environment away from their parents?


And set providers are dedicating to inspiring the next generation and


NCS is a fantastic programme challenging and developing young


people individually as well as building greater social cohesion as


welcome as many honourable members have raised early on by mixing teens


and getting people to think about their local communities. I ask


Edward Hodges, the director of joining forces why he thinks the NCS


make such a positive contributor and Andy that one of the most rewarding


aspects the programme is the response you get from parents,


teachers, and most importantly the young people that take part. You see


them growing confidence overcoming their fear of heights or standing in


front of their peers, pitching an idea, and to see them go as a team


guide to plan and deliver sites earning projects was great to be a


part of. The young people also receive a session on democracy and


how they can participate in bringing about positive change even before


they reach the voting age and have contributed some fantastic local and


national campaign and in future they could perhaps look further afield


into how they make positive differences to the world with global


campaigns, two, and the International citizen programme to


enabling them to just do that. One thing in my mind with debates


relating International development is if you ask one of those young


people, Madam Deputy Speaker, what they would like to see prioritised


in government spending, instead of the 017%, they would like to set


seat 10% spent on national aid and potentially that might give good


Hope to the international government secretary for the next budget


discussions. I hope that the Royal Charter and a clear mission of the


NCS being open to all that more children can from a wide variety of


backgrounds including those less fortunate they got the chance to


join the scheme and I support the use of HSRC getting out information


to all young people alongside the national instruments when they turn


16. -- national insurance. It is an important thing to advertise the


scheme to all young people. In summary, as all members have said,


this is probably the least divisive debates we have had in this place.


This is an absolutely in important initiative and gives young people


take take part, sickly and Bath my constituency, making a fantastic


contributing to the city, changing lines and I look forward to seeing


them develop over the years. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I would


like to thank all members for their contributions to this important


debate today. Social action plays a huge part in our society, and that


both a local and national level we see the positive impact it has not


only on individuals but entire communities. Many members that they


have cited over 130,000 young people have already taken part in NCS, and


300,000 are expected to have participated by 2020. The honourable


member for Gedling expressed this and challenged us to increase


numbers even further if possible. I would like to congratulate all of


those who have graduated from NCS as well as all of those to help to


deliver the programme each year. I was also like to encourage all 16


and 17-year-olds to apply is take part. As my honourable friend from


red cards heard Billy Mack is that everyone should be in courage was as


good as the sadistic side as fantastic the experience gained by


all young people will be, we on this side of the house still hold


concerns for social action, civil society, and use opportunities of a


wider scale. The honourable member for Barnsley made an important point


regarding not just staying in our bubbles. We have heard many times


already the slogan of a shared society from the other side of these


benches. Civil society and the work of NCS really do fit into this, but


the reality we are facing is a slashing funding for youth services,


a failure to develop citizenship and education, and then office of civil


theory that a pro-civil society moved around departments when it


should be across Whitehall. All those -- although we on the side of


the house will not be dividing, we have concerns about the future of


the policy. The SU of youth action is wider than this bill alone. In


each of our constituencies we see local youth organisations working


tirelessly to provide opportunities to our young people. I am sure


either of ourselves with in this chamber or any of our children may


well currently benefit from them and we have heard examples of today


funding slashed across the country as it is, local youth services


closing, particularly in areas of high deprivation, the new, shared


society has a lot of work to do if it will develop for our young


people. Young people for Dagenham and rain were passionate about


creating a cohesive society. However, I would like to outline


some of the concerns with this bill. Firstly, as many of the honourable


members have said today, NCS finds its unique selling point in its


ability to successfully makes people from all backgrounds and allow young


people to interact with others whom they may never have had the


opportunity to build relationship is with otherwise. Honourable friend


from Croydon Northolt at this with passion eloquence. Personally from a


young age I was able to do this through sport and to be held to


stand here today and speak about NCS with the knowledge that young people


that young people across the country are also benefiting from this is


such a pleasure. The me this is nothing about a positive, not only


for the individual people themselves but for society as a whole. Having


said this, I don't believe the world goes fast enough in emphasising this


importance. I would like to put on record that I, and others, both


within this house and those who deliver the programmes on the ground


would have hoped to see the bells specify social integration in its


wording. Will the Minister, today, commit to this? Otherwise, the


unique nature of NCS risks being watered down, something that would


benefit nobody. Secondly, not to be accused of stating the obvious, but


the hardest to reach young people are called that for the reason. They


are the hardest to reach. I don't at this to denigrate the debate but to


emphasise the inclusion within debate. There was a wonderful


analogy given by stressing the importance of inclusion, and I


wholeheartedly agree. With another approximately hundred and 70,000


young people sets to participate over the next three years, this bill


has a duty to ensure that the barriers to participation are broken


down not raised. The member from Bob gave a wonderful example of young


people pushing boundaries will stop the National Audit Office report


into scheme provides concerning reading. It states that in order to


meet spending review targets, spending power participant must fall


by 29%. This is a significant cut. A significant cut that could have a


detrimental effect if not managed well, on those who participate in


the scheme. Recruitment of the hardest to reach, costs more, must


be well conducted and takes time. Without this, the NCS risks becoming


an opportunity for the few, something which would disappoint all


of us I am sure. Again, perhaps they the obvious, barriers keep people


away, barriers stop people from applying or even knowing about the


scheme, and it is perhaps obvious that the government needs to hear.


Dedicated work to reach hardest to reach groups is a necessity. We are


already seeing a falling percentage of NCS graduates coming from the


lowest income families. With women as they commence -- will be Minister


comment to ring fencing funding for the hardest to reach groups question


mark I must pay tribute to the outstanding work of volunteer


centres, providing so many opportunities to young people and


whose staff work incredibly tirelessly to insert your the best


programmes are available. Without these organisations, many young


people would be left with little to do in their communities. With the


commitment of a funding injection of ?1 billion, there is concern that


this will squeeze out other youth service operators, as well as other


with voters who support the work of NCS, and that they will not receive


adequate resources to be able to do so to the best effect. I was however


pleased to learn that the Minister for civil society has written to the


chair of the NCS trust to outline his expectation that the trust will


report on relationships with the voluntary sector. It would be


comfortable to hear that commitment to gain from the government to


ensure the good working relationship with voluntary organisations.


Finally, integration and inclusion should not only come at participant


level but at all levels of NCS. All too often young people are looped


over but it is my belief there would be nowhere better for a young person


to play an active role than in this instance. I thank the honourable


member for giving way. I was wondering, that is a bleak outlook.


I think NCS is amazingly transformative, certainly in


Huddersfield it is bringing people from all communities together. I


wonder if she would stay -- say a few words about her personal


experience and how well it is doing in her part of the world? Thank you


very much. I would agree it is an absolutely wonderful programme which


should be supported and indeed, we on the side of the House to support


it but I would not be doing my role just as if I were not to ensure the


best possible outcome for all NCS participants and graduates. When you


ask about my constituency, I have had the pleasure of meeting people


who have taken part. Over the summer, a group of young people from


cheating were holding a fair trial as part of their social project. I


personally contributed to the food collection. -- from tooting. Thank


you very much. I will continue. NCS developed the skills and confidence


of young people, many of whom go on to graduate and work in future NCS


projects. Why should this not lead to more young people on the board of


patrons? I am sure the Minister will agree. I would like to put on record


that I support the call for focus groups of young people to be brought


together to inform, review the social aspect part of the programme.


These are young people who've lived these experiences so why do we not


capture and learn from them directly? I would like to as the


Minister if he agrees and what recommendations will be made to the


NCS trust on the inclusion of young people on the development of NCS


going forward? Young people harness so much positivity, passion, energy


and drive that we should not seek to bottle this, we should seek to


ensure as the opportunity to be expressed. NCS provides


opportunities for social action to ensure this. We have a


responsibility to the young people in all their constituencies to


ensure no barriers are put in place and no opportunity is missed to


upscale these youngsters. NCS should be seen as an entry point to a


longer programme of volunteering. We need to ensure all aspects of NCS is


of a high quality so no participant feels their experience has not been


the best it could be. As a starting point, NCS should lead into each


opportunity for involvements in communities. I hope the government


can say this as a wide opportunity outside this bill, the ink -- the


increase of social action and volunteering is not a negative one.


My honourable friend made an excellent point about ensuring the


legacy continues. There are 1.8 billion young people in the world


today. It is estimated that at no other time mother be more young


people in the world, if we do not punish their passion, creativity and


drive for change when will we? This bill is a good step forward in


ensuring we do that hear and I just hope the government listens to our


concerns and the concerns of those in the voluntary sector to ensure we


can harness the potential of young people for the future, they are


after all our future politicians. Minister. Thank you, Madam Deputy


Speaker. I would like to thank all the honourable members who have


taken part today and not only that, to thank them and all others who


have helped to make NCS a success so far. I would be delighted to say how


many honourable members have embraced NCS in their own


constituencies, editing, encouraging and taking part in Dragon Den style


panels which help social action projects for young people. It is


fitting that a programme which unites people from different


backgrounds should be endorsed by all sides of this House. We will


have debates and discussions, we already are, but I hope we can


continue in that spirit as we discuss this bill with their common


goal to make NCS is the best possible experience for future


generations. NCS should be one experience amongst others. As


Minister for civil society, I had the pleasure of seeing a huge number


of programmes and actions run by really excellent organisations. NCS


is not hear to compete with other opportunities for young people,


quite the opposite, I want NCS to give young people an appetite for


servers, for other opportunities and for trying new things. Our vision is


for NCS to be a common experience for all, scouts, cadets, people


familiar with servers in the same team, sharing their experience with


people who've never done anything like this before. NCS sees people


with different backgrounds, faiths and interests coming together at a


formative age and learning the impact they can have on the


community around them. The independent evaluations show that we


should not underestimate the impact of those four weeks for the junk


people. We also have participant's on words to take for it. -- for the


young people. They ask the graduates what they would say to someone


considering NCS. One said, it is the most amazing experience you will


ever have, take it with both hands and mould your future. So it is


crucial we get the delivery of this amazing experience absolutely right.


This bill, together with the Royal Charter, is designed to create a


delivery body that the public will trust that spends money wide --


wisely and has the right priorities. I would like to turn to some of the


issues that the honourable member for Croydon North raised earlier.


There were many in the debate that raised the issue of social


integration. The NCS Bill and the Royal Charter cover this been


extensively. The Royal Charter includes the objective, to promote


social cohesion by ensuring equality of access to the programmes by


participants regardless of their background or circumstances. The NCS


requires the trust to report any extent to which participants from


different backgrounds have mixed on the programmes. There are many


excellent examples of social integration in the practice on NCS,


including specific interfaith NCS groups. NCS will continue to play an


important role in promoting social integration but of course I am


willing to consider what is being said hear today. In terms of the


duty to promote NCS or people from disadvantaged background, the


trust's primary function includes enabling people from disadvantaged


backgrounds to work together so the trust is tasked to be focused on


promoting NCS to young people regardless of background. In terms


of the NBA all and the background is disproportionately represented, the


NCS is working to increase the representation of disadvantaged


people. Eight out of ten participants feel more positive


about people from different backgrounds as a result, according


to the 2014 survey. Young people's involvement, they are at the centre


of NCS. That is the National youth board which feeds into the trust


from 19 regional youth boards across the country, there are also 120 NCS


leaders which the honourable gentleman has spoken to in the House


who are ambassadors for the programme, representing the


interests of their peers. Under the new arrangements, a new board will


be appointed as part of the process, we welcome suggestions for who that


might include. The honourable member for Canterbury made some excellent


points about adventure training and the challenge represented for


residential centres. It is not within the scope of this bill but I


am happy to look at the issue he raises. Regarding the Member for


Dagenham, he is right to highlight the nonpartisan basis of the bill


and Royal Charter and they aim to strike the balance between


independence of the NCS trust and accountability that it has two


parliaments. He raised a number of issues, should the annual report be


debated in this House? The bill requires the report to be laid


before Parliament to debate it if it wishes. In terms of guidance for


schools and local authorities, officials in the office are drafting


guidance for local authorities on the benefits of NCS to them and how


they can engage further with the programme. In terms of ring fenced


funding, and number of people have asked about, I will, after I have


answered this question... The bill gives the trust the freedom to set


its own targets but requires a report on the mix of participants


from different backgrounds so we can assess it on outcomes. We are


interested in outcomes rather than... I will give away. Can you


clarify what the government will think about statutory guidance to


schools about NCS? We want to ensure the right balance between the


independence of the NCS trust and to make statutory guidance would


therefore enforce what the NCS had to do could be a problem so we don't


want to go along that route. In terms of, the honourable member for


Saffron Walden, I would like to thank him for the fantastic support


years given to the NCS. He paid tribute to the former Prime


Minister, quite rightly so. This is a programme which is


transformational and it has seen of day thanks to heaven. I did like the


idea of building a movement. -- thanks to him. In terms of some of


the questions regarding threats to other parts of the sector, the trust


is part of generation exchange, a group of youth organisations looking


to increase the scale and quality of youth social action programmes. The


trust is committed to helping NCS become a gateway to other programmes


and other opportunities for young people to volunteer for a lifetime.


In terms of detriment to other local authority services, this is


additional funding we have announced. That is also funding for


other programmes and that is additional to funding that local


authorities have. There are some good examples of local authority


provision on youth services. I only have a couple of minutes available


so I have to push on. We want NCS to be accessible to every young person.


I know a number of people have asked about young carers and young


offenders. There is a place for all of them on this scheme. Every young


person that wants a place can have a place. The honourable member for


Rutherford asked the Minister for rail and road to look into this so I


hope this reassures her. In terms of NCS providers regarding best


practice, we are working with the trust to issue guidance to providers


to help them build relationships with local authorities and local


schools to ensure social action projects take on the needs of young


-- needs of local projects. There were questions about devolved


administrations, Scotland and Wales. The NCS Bill will help the trust


deliver the programme across England. The government would


welcome the expansion of NCS in the future and each administration is


considering how the NCS programme would work. In terms of Northern


Ireland, it is supportive of NCS. There is separate provision of NCS


which is a charity which supports the peace process with unique and


long-standing expertise. Government has licensed the NCS intellectual


property rights to allow Northern Ireland to run the programme. The


honourable member for East Worthing asks, the NCS Bill applies only to


England. The majority of the bill refers to England only. There are


some provisions thriller -- relating to reserved matters which means the


bill as a whole does not meet the test to be certified as England


only. Although each MRC will only apply to the people of England, the


functions of each MRC are a wholly reserved matter. In terms of why you


couldn't achieve the same outcomes or scouts and cadets? The recent


report finds the NCS is distinct from other programmes, especially


its focus on mixing people from different backgrounds. It is


available and affordable and has a combination of personal development


and the chance to mix with people from other backgrounds. It is


designed to be a single, unifying rite of passage for young people


which sits alongside the many other fantastic opportunities for young


people. It is a small bill but it is very important and says the probe --


the framework for a programme Public confidence is absolutely key


to the success of NCS. The bill will help it grow and become a rite of


passage for future generations. Establishing NCS for the long-term


is, in a small way, part of defining what sort of nation we want to be in


the future. It is an ancient that invest in young people, fosters


social integration and believes that the values of service. Over 300,000


young people have benefited from NCS all ready. The bill is our


opportunity to secure the same life changing is the sharing --


experience for generations to come, a service for everyone and a


commitment to greater social cohesion, social mobility, and


social engagement. I commend the bill to the house the question is


that the bill now be read a second time. As many -- As many as are of


the opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no".. The ayes have it.


The ayes have it. For the motion to be moved formerly... The question is


as on the order paper. As many as are of the opinion, say "aye". To


the contrary, "no".. The ayes have it, the ayes have it. Money


resolution to be moved formerly. I beg to move. The question is Alice


on the order paper. As many as are of the opinion, say "aye". To the


contrary, "no". The ayes have it. The ayes have it. We now come to


motion number four on local government. Minister to move. I beg


to move. Write the question is as on the order paper. As many as are of


the opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no". The ayes have it.


With the leave of the house I propose to put motions five, six,


and seven together. The question is, we now come to motion number five,


six and seven. Relating to the administration committee and a


finance committee and the regulatory reform committee. Mr Bill Wiggin.


The iMac I beg to move. The question is as on the order paper. As many as


are of the opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no". The ayes have


it, the ayes have it. Yet an actor I beg to move that the house do now


adjourn. Do the house now adjourned? Maria Eagle. Thank you Mehdi that


it. -- and endeavoured to speaker. Mbeki speaker Gamma defibrillators


save lives. That is the true starting the work of the Oliver King


foundation. The leading foundation is a charity which campaigns to


ensure that defibrillators are available in public places, to make


sure that people are trained to use them. Every year Ambulance Services


in the UK treat around 30,000 people for a nonhospital risible cardiac


arrest, but fewer than 10% survive. Fewer than one in ten. Out of the


average of 82 cardiac arrest that occur in the UK every day, outside a


hospital, just eight people live. Cardiopulmonary reservation or CB


are often championed as the best way of treating cardiac arrest before


ambulances. Indeed, in some cases it can double the likelihood of


surviving. But even then, the chances of resuscitation are still


as low as 20%. That is only in some cases. Clearly, CPR alone isn't


enough. Indeed. As a parent, in fact, a year ago, the 7th of


December last year, a 28-year-old son had a cardiac arrest. He is one


of the few lucky ones that got to hospital and has is a deliberate,


but with the honourable lady agree with me that actually in conjunction


with the related as it is incredibly important, as was the case in my


son's case, that his girlfriend was CPR trained, and saw him through the


process until the paramedics arrived? The honourable gentleman


has had a frightening experience in his family, but also has learned the


incredible importance of not only having different related is


available but having people who know how to use them will stop and I


could hardly better his example, that family example that he has


their, of how important it is that their belated are available and


people know how to use them. A study by the British Heart Foundation


found that for every single minute without a relation, the chances of


survival fall by 7-10%. The Care Quality Commission sets a response


target for emergency Ambulance Services of eight minutes. However,


we know that not all ambulances can possibly arrive in every single case


within that time. And even if they did, the chances of survival without


immediate different relation and CPR will already have plummeted to 20%


or even lower. So, access to a defibrillator can make a huge


difference. If cardiac arrest is recognised, basic first aid given,


999 called, if CPR is applied in combination with rapid and effective


different relation guide chances of survival can exceed 50%, in fact in


some cases this can be as high as 80%. But immediate action is vital,


a defibrillator must be at hand for these survival rates to be realised.


Now, three people who know this better than most are my constituents


Mark, Joanne, and Ben King. 2011, Mark and Joanne King lost their son,


Oliver, and Ben lost his brother. Oliver tragically died following a


sudden cardiac arrest whilst racing and winning in a school slamming


competition. He was just 12 years old. He had a hidden heart


condition, and without access to a different relate at school his


chances of survival on that day were dramatically reduced. Had he lived,


this Saturday would have been his 18th birthday. Now, I never met


Oliver but I have been struck by talking to those who knew him and


you did know him well. He was clearly a very happy and popular


boy, judging by the tribute that poured in from those who knew him.


Following the shock of that terrible day. Oliver was known as a big


character at King David high school. His teachers recall his


uncompromising zest for life, and how he was loved and respected by


boys and girls and teachers alike. His best friend, David, recalls


Oliver's charm, and how it was sometimes deployed, to get them out


of tricky situations on more than one occasion, I understand will stop


this year is particularly difficult for David, as he will be celebrating


the milestone of turning 18 without his best friend. Everyone mentions


Oliver's love of football. He was a staunch ever Tony and. He was a


supporter of Everton. He had talent and potential on pitch. One of his


teachers described him as a sportsman at heart and a natural at


whatever he turned his hand to. Above all, Oliver was caring,


loving, and incredibly close to his family, family was everything to


Oliver. Now it goes without saying that his death left many people who


knew him and love him with a great sense of loss. Oliver's family and


friends are sadly not alone in going through this terrible ordeal. Of the


thousands of people every year who die following the sudden cardiac


arrest, there are thousands more who are now faced with the agonising


reality of living without a loved one. Indeed. I am grateful. I pay


tribute for her bringing this subject to and her good fortune in


having so long potentially to debate it. She has given an emotional case


for somebody who for the sake of a relatively simple and inexpensive


bits of kit that the outcome might have been different. But she agree


that in public buildings and certainly places like schools that


automatically the assumption should be that these bases should be fitted


with a defibrillator? And would she pay tribute to use a lottery grant


in my constituency for the enhancement of a village, whose


first action was to install four different places in the corner of


each village, and anyone outside the local pharmacy, as a worthwhile


thing to do. They have imaginatively used things like telephone boxes,


now redundant, to replace them with different relate is, as an obvious


point for help for local people. This is something we should do


automatically, isn't it? I agree very much with the honourable


gentleman and he has set out and example from his own constituency


and there are many around the country had many ways in which


communities are starting to make sure that they have access to


defibrillator is, to ensure that if needed, they are there. And I


welcome that, it is something I think we should try and ensure is


available throughout our land, up and down, north and south, east and


west. Now, what happens to Oliver is not as rare as we might hope there


are 270 young people who tragically die every year in the UK of sudden


cardiac arrest was at school, and nothing that makes further the point


that the honourable gentleman has just made, that it seems to me that


it seems to be a no-brainer, to have different relate is routinely


available in schools. In 2012, Mark and Joanne, Oliver's parents, set up


the Oliver King foundation, in memory of their son and its aims are


to raise awareness of the conditions leading to sudden cardiac arrest,


vitally important, because the family didn't know that Oliver had


any condition that might lead to this happening, and of course, if


they had known, probably by use of ace simple ECG tests to diagnose,


and they may have been able to take steps to avoid what happened


happening. Secondly, to purchase a place their belated in schools and


sports centres, and to train their staff on how to use them, thirdly to


hold screening event to enable simple painless ECG testing to help


diagnose these conditions, and make sure that what happened to Oliver


doesn't happen to the children of other families. Now, they've done an


incredible job. Their aim is simple. To ensure no more families have to


go through what they did. Knowing that the death of a son or daughter


or mother or father or friend may have been prevented. And they


campaigned tirelessly and I might say very effectively, to ensure that


every school in the country is equipped with an automated external


defibrillator will stop they have the support of more than 200


members, the right Honourable members in this house across


parties. Now, automatic external different relate is our


defibrillator is specifically designed for use by nonmedically


trained people. They are remarkable life-saving machines, not difficult


to use. They will only apply an electrical pulse when the machine


itself detects an irregular heart rate, and they talk the user through


the process, step-by-step. At around ?1200, they are not cheap. Even if


provided, some people are often afraid of using them. As a result,


many schools in high-risk public areas in the UK are still not


equipped with them and as a direct result of the Oliver King


foundation, over 800 schools and public places in the country now


have this life-saving kit and people confident to use it. In Liverpool,


Oliver's home city, not a single school is now without one, thanks to


the work of the Oliver King foundation, and liveable City


Council. The foundation have also managed to drain of 15,000 people


around the country in how to use and DED -- these different releases,


raising confidence to use this life-saving kit. As a direct result,


Madam Deputy Speaker, 11 lives have been saved that would otherwise have


been lost. One was an elderly gentleman suffering a heart attack


is local gym, and thanks to the quick thinking of the staff and use


of the defibrillator in the gym, he was sat up and talking by the time


emergency services arrived. In Waltham, where Oliver used to live,


and my own constituency, and automated external defibrillator


provided by the foundation was deployed three times this December


alone. If the defibrillator is available


and training provided, people will use them, it is as simple as that


but we cannot and should not be reliant on charities to do all of


the heavy lifting and work in this policy area. In November the


honourable member for Lewis introduced their defibrillators


availability bill under the ten minute procedure with the purpose


being to increase the rates of survival from nonhospital cardiac


arrests across the UK. Its objective is basically to do for the nation


what the foundation has done for Liverpool and is continuing to do in


its work in other places, providing defibrillators in public places and


training them to use them. Yes, indeed. I thank the honourable


member for giving way. I am not sure if she is the impact the dead -- the


defibrillators are having in ambulances. When I qualified and


Alan Jones picture up and to go to hospital but now even in


professional hands, it is this technology which has transferred --


transformed out of hospital procedure. I thank her for that


useful piece of information coming from your own experience as a


doctor. It is important that the availability of this kit is widened


across our society in order to save lives. Current legislation


surrounding public access to defibrillators is practically


nonexistent. Last year the government produced guidance


regarding the purchase of defibrillators but whilst I welcome


that, I think the government should do more so I wonder if the Minister


could undertake to meet with Mark, JoAnn and the foundation to discuss


realistic programme of providing AEDs in public places and training


for people to feel confident in using them and I wondered if he


could facilitate a meeting with the Prime Minister. I know the


foundation would welcome an opportunity to argue their case at


the highest possible level of government. Indeed. I thank the


honourable member for giving way. I thank you for raising such an


important issue and I want to pay tribute to the foundation for all


their hard work. It is one of those rare occasions where that is


cross-party agreement for the need of defibrillators but the ten minute


bill will be coming for a second reading on second January and is


unlikely to make progress just because it is a ten minute bill.


Does she agree with me that it would be good if the government could


adopt this bill because it does save lives and is cheap to introduce and


could make a difference to young people, as you said 12 young lives


are lost each week through this? I congratulate her on bringing forth


the bill under the ten minute rule procedure but she is correct, it is


now there are. I would echo her call for the government to adopt its


because the only reason why she has said her bill will not progress in


this session is because there is no time, given where it is on the left


on private member's Bill three days. The government could transform that


in an incident by taking on board aspects of the bill or the whole


bill and putting it to its own legislation, perhaps the Minister


will have something to say about that in higher -- his reply. I thank


the honourable member for giving way. I congratulate her on the


really eloquent statement cheesemaking. I am sure she already


has paid tribute to the King family, could I just add my tribute to the


dignity and constructive way they have taken this issue forward. Could


I agree with the honourable lady from Lewis that the ten minute rule


Bill has virtually no chance of getting onto the statute book by the


government could, if it was of a mind to do so, adopt that Bill and


turn it into a government Bill. If it is defective, it could be amended


but the spirit that could be carried forward. He is completely correct in


both of those things. I know he knows that -- he knows the King


family, many of us on Merseyside do and many colleagues have met either


the family or the campaigners associated with the Oliver King


Foundation and they do a stunning job getting across their campaigning


efforts. Losing Oliver was devastating for Mark and JoAnn and


then and for his friends and his local community. Who knows what he


would have been capable of achieving had he left, something remarkable I


have no doubt, given the way you've started off in life. I would like to


finish by saying how much I admire the successful we Oliver King's


family and friends have challenged their grief into ensuring that no


other family have to endure what they did. They have done such good


work in Liverpool and elsewhere. They are moving on to other places


to start installing AEDs in schools, sports centres in public places but


only the government can help them achieve their goal nationwide. I


very much hope that the Minister in his reply will want to use the


opportunity to announce a government initiative to make that dream a


reality. I think it would be a fitting tribute to Oliver King.


Hear, hear. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and may I commend the


honourable member for excellent and that speech. I only want to make a


few points but I agree this is such a vital matter that it is for the


government to take some initiative year. I absolutely agree that while


charities will have learned about the Oliver King Foundation doing


amazing work, this is so important that it must be overseen by the


government. My experience in my constituency, thanks to the British


Heart Foundation there are some amazing kits for CPR work. I had


great fun going round businesses who have taken up my offer of hiding out


these kits for nothing. They do it in the lunchtime or before work and


in 20 minutes they are confident of using -- of doing CPR thanks to


these kits. That is fabulous. Another member mentioned the idea of


red phone books -- phone boxes having defibrillators. Again, I


notice them now when I am travelling round and ICI defibrillator in a red


phone box, it is wonderful initiative but again it is from


charities doing this. One concern after one business taking up the CPR


kit and being enthusiastic, I asked them would you consider a publicly


accessible defibrillator? Be looked into it. It was not just the cost,


it is more than ?1000, but it was then maintenance costs and the


responsibility of maintaining a defibrillator. If it is used once,


it has to be reset and checked and this involves some money but I think


it was the responsibility for such vital equipment the pit of my local


businesses. If Public Health England or CCGs were to be mapping where a


publicly accessible defibrillator were, if they were encouraging


schools are sports facilities or stadium and on a level, again in


London we have a community toilet scheme and yet we do not have a


community defibrillator scheme where everybody would know where the


neediest defibrillator is someone is responsible for maintenance, that is


it requires. The great thing is because of what members across the


House, we are thinking in the same way and there is an appetite amongst


charities and the public for those, but this is the time where I do


believe the government has to lead. Thank you. Minister. Thank you,


Madam Deputy Speaker. Remember, in her excellent speech, said that


defibrillator save lives and I accept that, that is no question


that that is the case. Before I respond to the point she made and


the points the Member for Twickenham needs, I would like to add my


congratulations by the work that the Oliver King Foundation has done. And


for what the family have done in terms of turning a terrible tragedy


into something positive. We have heard what has been achieved in


Liverpool and has been achieved more widely as well. The Member for


Garston asked, would I be willing to meet the family in terms of talking


about taking this forward and I confirm I would be very happy to do


that. The sports minister is he with me today and it is a subject she


feels passionately about as well and it was in the sports strategy which


was published one year ago and that is something I will be happy to set


up. In terms of the private member Bill, I am not in a position tonight


to say what the government position is on that. I would be very happy if


the Member for Garston would organise that meeting, to make it


more widely attended by interested members. I thank the honourable


member for giving way. I think it is accepted by the honourable member


for Lewis and I accept that the ten minute Bill, although it is a good


way of raising the issue, is not a suitable vehicle for taking it


forward. Requested the Minister and the department look at the Bill as


it stands and if it needs amended redrafted, they can suggest ways of


doing it or take it on board themselves. It is something that the


government itself should be bringing forward rather than leave it to a


legislative vehicle which will not work in this case. As I said, I am


not in a position tonight to say what the government will do in


respect of that bill. I am willing to say that we will meet and talk


about it after this. There is a question about the extent to which


these are my day-to-day, that was raised in terms of the school


situation versus guidelines in health and I will try to make some


of those points. The Member for Garston made the point that people


that have out-of-hospital cardiac arrest have a survival rate of


something like 10%, Ed Vaizey is between 7% and 12% depending on the


ambulance service. -- it really is. There is no question that is


defibrillators when available, that figure would be doubled and possibly


more. We also accept the figures she quoted from the British Heart


Foundation, every minute of the day, it reduces the probability of


continued success by something like 10%. We need to correct more access


to defibrillators, the member had the incident with his family, we


also need to have training and CPR awareness. I recall two years ago


when a church hall in Warrington, I did the CPR training. It did not


take long. Hopefully, I can still remember how to do it because you


have to go with these things in parallel. I understand some of the


defibrillators work fairly easily without too much training but the


whole CPR experience and ability is something we need to achieve. In


terms of my response, I will talk about public places, what we're


doing in terms of schools, what the government is doing in terms of the


workplace generally and also sports. I will also take a few minutes at


the end, I do not think we will be year until ten o'clock, to talk


about screening which was mentioned as something we should be


considering. Since 2007, the ambulance trusts have had


responsibility for the defibrillators around the country.


That is because they are clearly where the 909 calls are and these


are the people who ought to know where the nearest defibrillator is.


There is called, if they are locked, they are responsible for that. In


addition, the British Heart Foundation in England and in


Scotland are trying to create a database of the defibrillators


believe are out there. Unfortunately, for historic reasons,


these have grown up over time, there are something like 40,000 of them


which could be out there and there could be issues regarding


maintenance. They need to be brought up-to-date and they are leading the


charge on that. In addition, the government in the last two years has


allocated ?1 million per annum for defibrillators in public places.


That money is for England only and it has had some success. We have had


700 new defibrillators last year, including a range of CPR training


and indeed the cabinets they go with. We accept the same thing this


year. That is an appreciable increase the number of December the


later is and as I said at the start, we're doing this because we believe


defibrillator save lives. The member for Garston talked about


schools and rightly said that guys since has been issued to schools --


guidance has been issued. We expect schools to consider the


installations of the liberators but it is also true to say that it is


not the case that nationally, every school has a defibrillator. 1.I


would like to make, though, is this. She talked of different relate is


costing in excess of ?1000. The scheme we have set into place with


schools using the NHS supply chain means that they can actually source


a defibrillator for something like ?435 which is clearly better than a


thousand. That is still coming out of a school budget, except that, but


nevertheless we are finding a great number of schools are taking this up


and the schools are also able to apply to this scheme that we talked


about earlier in terms of the British Heart Foundation providing


defibrillator is as a publicly accessible thing, in many cases in a


school that would be the case. I accept that we haven't mandated it,


and I accept that the bill is asking us to do that and I will come back


and talk about that later. In terms of the workplace itself, well, there


is a health and safety aspect for every employer to consider a and we


have put into place a requirement that from January the 1st of this


situation who is a first aid situation who is a first aid


accredited person, and others the health and safety regulations


require that, all of those must have different relation training and a


position to use these facilities and that is something that we have put


into place and is now happening and that includes everybody doing a


first aid. In terms of sport, well, first aid. In terms of sport, well,


I mentioned at the start of this that this is an area of priority and


the formal responsibility for it is under the governing bodies of the


sports themselves, and many sports take this forward, we know of


instances occurred, I think it is a Tottenham player who was saved by a


combination of defibrillator and a doctor who used CPR from the crowd.


That is happening also in rugby league and union, and the FA


themselves, the football Association, have put into place a


1.2 million grants, which is buying 1300 different relate this guy use


that football grounds up and down the country including, busy not just


the large grounds,, I involve myself at Warrington town football club,


and we will be getting aid different relate under the scheme, as well.


All coaches, all FA accredited coaches will have to be CPR trained


as well, going forward. I also know from the Sports Minister that, as I


say, the sports strategy does put a lot of priority in terms of the


actually nominated Baroness Grey actually nominated Baroness Grey


Thompson to take this forward, including the duty of care putting


on the various governing bodies, as a matter of priority. It is also


important that we understand more about sudden cardiac arrest, and


that we actually do make progress around research, and the government


has funded and does fund through the national Institute of health


research genetic funding on this because there are genetic aspects to


it, there is a gene elements to it, and there is work going on in the


Oxford biomedical research centre around gene study. I am not saying


we are close to a solution or a cure on this but it is a research


priority and I think if we understood the genetics of this


better it would help us to do screen better and I will come on now and


talk about screening. Madam Deputy Speaker, there is a school of


thought out there which is that screening for the genetic


predisposition of particularly children for heart issues is


something that can make a difference, and in 2015 the UK


screening authority, the screening committee looked at this within the


context of screening for people between 12 batch 39 years of age,


and didn't support it will stop at the time. Now, that position at it


was taken as the time to raise consistent with every other country


in Europe who, my understanding is, we have looked into this, no other


country at the moment does screening, and the reasons they gave


for that is it is difficult so far to get clarity on the numbers of


people that would be affected. There is some concern that even if


screening were to be identified, screening were to be identified,


people with a potential weakness, there is no consensus on how that


should be managed, and finally a significant concern was raised about


the efficacy of a test, concerning there will be a number of false


negatives and positives, and that would make it positively


volley-macro possibly doing more harm than good. If peer-reviewed


evidence came forward around places that have done work on screening,


that would be reconsidered, but without that it won't be looked at


again until 2018. So, we are really left with the issues around making


more progress on the numbers of the ventilators as I say, what is


between us, I guess a little bit in terms of her remarks and my response


is not whether this is a good thing to be doing, it's whether it should


be mandated by the government and put into every school and every


sports facility versus an approach... Set never give way. I


thank him for giving way. I understand is points in terms of


concern about whether this should be mandated, but we would never operate


a school these days without a smoke alarm, without a fire extinction,


you wouldn't put children on a school bus without seat belts, and


for me, the ventilators are as essential a piece of safety


equipment as any of those I have just mentioned. And I accept that,


Mr Deputy Speaker, and I say, any school, the guidelines are clear.


Any schools can make use of NHS Supply chain facility to put in a


verb later ?400 or so. Certainly. The macro I am grateful. He talked


about the issue of screening, which won't write a novel friend mentioned


in her speech earlier and was I understand the conclusions and the


adviser has been given already, just though there is no conclusion about


this, it is appropriate however that were somebody already to have been


affected in the valley, the screening should be available and


made vertically soon. This speaker I accept that and I will also make the


point that a number of sport governing bodies actually offer


screening for people that participate in the sports as well,


but that is not national screening of all 12-30 9 euros. That is what I


was like that. I finish by reiterating, Mr Deputy Speaker,


my... Willingness to meet with the member for Garston and Halewood and


others, and indeed members from the Oliver King foundation. I am


grateful to the Minister. I also conveyed to him the request that the


Prime Minister meet the Oliver King foundation, and Oliver 's parents,


and I wonder if he might help me facilitate that. Mr Deputy Speaker,


I can do many things this evening, but I can't answer for the Prime


Minister will stop I think I am right in saying that they met with


the secretary of state a couple of years ago, but perhaps when we meet,


and if we could start at the bottom end of the food chain, and work


their way up, we could take that forward at that point. I will


finally make the point that if we are investing in any aspect of


health, whether cancer drugs or the other GP access or whatever, there


does need to be an evaluation of the efficacy of that in terms of cost


effectiveness, user grows year ago user criteria, the quality of lives


that are quality adjusted life years. This sort of investment as we


come to discuss it would be just -- judged alongside cancer drugs and


other things that we do need to have and it is clear from the tone of


this debate in the interest on all sides of the house in terms of


defibrillators saving money, as he starts to save lives, as we started


by saying. The government accept that and we would like to make


progress on this will stop the question is the house do now


adjourn. As many of the opinion say I macro. The ayes have it. Order,


order. We are now going to the House of


Lords. Remember you can watch recorded coverage of all of the day


the business of Lords after the daily politics, later tonight. We


had a considerable quantity of advocates wry man who worked for a


large the products company for 40 years. The TUC representatives said


scam this man has worked for the scam this man has worked for the


company for 40 years, and they are putting him off. It's not right. We


will know more when we heard the case. I said nothing but was worried


that members might be set prior to the hearing. There are many


witnesses and the case took all day. Retired to consider our decision.


The chairman sought our views and the TUC man immediately said 40


years. I don't know how they stuck him for that long. They did


everything they could, moving him


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