11/07/2017 House of Commons


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11/07/2017

Live coverage of proceedings in the House of Commons, including a statement on the Taylor Report on working practices and an emergency debate on contaminated blood products.


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Hello and welcome to BBC Parliament's live coverage of the

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House of Commons. In now, deep is the Minister will make a statement

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on the Taylor review into modern working practices and the economy.

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After that, MPs will hold an emergency debate on contaminated

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blood products. Labour's Dina Johnson says new evidence means

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there should be held Christel public enquiry into the affair.

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More than 2000 deaths have been linked to these candle in which

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others were infected with hepatitis C and HIV from imported blood

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products in the 1970s and 80s. After that, MPs will debate the remaining

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stages of the air travel organisers like the bill which of these

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predictions for holiday-makers. Around four o'clock, we cross lies

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to the committee rooms where the Brexit secretary will give evidence

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to the Lords European Union committee. At that point, you can

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continue watching the House of Commons live on our website.

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Do join me for a round-up of the day in both Houses of Parliament at 11

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o'clock tonight. But first we have questions to the Foreign Secretary

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Boris Johnson and his ministerial team.

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Hors d'oeuvre. City of London open spaces bell, the chairman of ways

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and means to revival mission. The question is on the order paper. I

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think the ayes have it. Middle level Bill, the chairman of weather means

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to move the revival mission. I beg to move. Objection. Objection taken.

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Motion to be taken what Dave. Tuesday the 18th of July. Thank you.

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Cemetery Bill, Lords. Move the revival mission. He is keen, very

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keen today. I beg to move. The question is on the order paper. I

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think the ayes have it. Chairman of ways and Means, to move, the motion

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for an returns. Thank you. Not so much a nod as a magnificent bowel.

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-- bow. Mr Nigel Huddleston. Number one, Mr Speaker. I should like to

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begin by congratulating a rock's security forces for liberating Mosul

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from the grass of Daesh, the flag of Iraq flies once more in the

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country's 's second city and I pay tribute to the pilots who played a

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vital role in supporting this operation, delivering more air

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strikes than anyone else apart from the United States, I think the House

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can take pride in what they have done. An illegal wildlife trade, I

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think we can be pleased with the agreement be Prime Minister helped

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to secure IBG 20 summit in Hamburg and I say to all honourable members,

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this is not about cracking down on the trade in charismatic mega- fauna

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but of course in cracking down on those who engaged not just in

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illegal wildlife trafficking but in gun-running and people trafficking

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and much other human misery. We can be proud of what we are doing. Nigel

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Huddleston. I applaud the efforts of the Government is making in this

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area and I am pleased that the UK will be hosting the illegal wildlife

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trade conference in 2018. Can the Foreign Secretary confirm how much

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the money the department has committed to tackling illegal

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wildlife trade and how the money is being spent effectively? I can

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confirm that we are increasing our contribution to ?26 million, another

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?30 million to tackle illegal wildlife trade and I have myself

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seen what UK finance projects are doing in ten year to crack down on

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this while trade. Mr Speaker, thank you, I say to the

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Foreign Secretary we have to give there is a much greater priority

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than we do. Not only our Government but across the world. Every single

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week it seems all mud it seems we see programmes on television, 55

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African elephants are poached every single day. It is simply not good

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enough and the Foreign Secretary has to make this a priority. It is not

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good enough for us to look at our TV screens until sorry about it, we

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have to have a far greater commitment to do something about it.

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I completely share the Passion of the right honourable member. I would

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point out that the UK has been on the lead on all this for several

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years now and we will be continuing to push this agenda, not just at the

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T20 as the Prime Minister did, but of course Attar IW teed summit that

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we are hosting next October in London. With my right honourable

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friend tell us a little bit of the strategy he is taken to approach

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this? The link between illegal what I've trade, smuggling, people

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traffic like lawlessness and pilots in many countries is extremely real

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and so addressing wildlife trade may seem hysterical but it is not at

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all, it's about the stability of many nations that farm partners of

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the United Kingdom. It is not only touches the heart of millions of

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people in our country, it helps to cause increased human misery because

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the same people are involved in trading drugs, in arms, in human

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trafficking, worth up to ?30 billion a year and we are playing a major

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part in frustrating that trade. Thank you, Mr Speaker. There is

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increasing evidence that the UK's legal ivory market has been used as

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described for an illegal trade. What about them all-out ban on the ivory

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trade? The honourable gentleman we know we have a commitment in this

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Government to all-out ban on the sale of ivory in this country and

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that is what we intend to pursue. Rachel McLean. Question number two,

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Mr Speaker. With your permission, I will answer questions to answer for

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together. The Foreign Office continues to support that... 14. The

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give and -- forgive me. My department, my apologies. My

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department indeed used to support EU exit negotiations and the Government

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works to strengthen our relations with partners worldwide. As a

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champion of free trade, we will continue to seize the opportunities

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afforded by Brexit I guarantee our long-term global prosperity. Rachel

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McLean. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I thank my right honourable friend for

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this answer. Businesses in my constituency are looking to make the

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most of the opportunities of Brexit provides for them. But can my right

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honourable friend ensure me that he will work closely with the

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Department of trade, the Department for exiting the EU to ensure

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businesses that are already trading with the single market are given

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support to help build new export markets for their goods and services

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around the world to ensure their continued prosperity?

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Absolutely. I congratulate my honourable friend on what I believe

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is her first question in this chamber and I think it is a very

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good one and she can reassure her constituents that, of course, not

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only will the excellent companies in her constituency be able to continue

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to enjoy free trade with the rest of the European Union, with the EU 27,

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but of course they will have the additional opportunity afforded by

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the new free trade deals that we will be able to strike with

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countries around the world. I am pleased to say that they were

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queueing up to make that point to the Prime Minister IBG 20 in

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Hamburg. Today is the feast Day of Saint Benedict, the agency of

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Europe. He famously warned against against the others. Will my right

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honourable friend please proclaim that we do not want any murmuring

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from anybody against our vision of an open, free trade in Europe, the

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best possible free-trade deal, leading the world towards free trade

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and on tour prosperity? I think my right honourable friend makes an

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excellent point. Members on both sides of this House know very well,

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85% of us were elected on a very clear manifesto to come out of the

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European Union, to come out of the single market and as the leader of

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the Labour Party has said to come out of the customs union as well.

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Nothing could be clearer than that and I think what the people of this

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country want us to do is to get on and deliver a great Brexit and with

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the support of members opposite, I have no doubt that we can achieve

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it. Ben Bradshaw. A transition period of three years during which

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we will remain under the jury system at the ECJ. Neither the Secretary of

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State has said any such thing. Cue him being called second, I am not

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sure he minds. Hilary Benn. In March, the Foreign Secretary said

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leaving the EU with no deal would be perfectly OK. However, last month

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the Chancellor of the Exchequer said that would be a very, very bad

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outcome for Britain. Since the two positions are clearly completely

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contradictory, who should the British public believe? I think what

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the British public can take from both the Chancellor and myself and

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indeed from the vast majority of Labour members opposite, as I

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understand, their position, that we all want to get on and do the deal

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and do the best deal possible and to leave the EU. Mr John Barron. The

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Australian Government which negotiated free-trade deals with

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China, Japan and South Korea in very short order by focusing on trade

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itself, rather getting bogged down in disputes rather to standings and

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legalities and regulations. I agree very much with what my right

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honourable friend has said and I think with a bit of gumption and a

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bit of positive energy, there is no limit to what we can achieve and we

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should get on and do it and of course we cannot ink in the

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free-trade deals now but we can certainly pencil in the outline.

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Yesterday, the Prime Minister 's spokesman was reported as saying the

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transition rules could involve the European Court of Justice for a

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limited time, that is a matter for negotiation. That was the quake that

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was reported. Can the Foreign Secretary confirmed this change in

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Government policy and set out the rationale behind it? We are in the

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negotiation whose objective is to out from under the penumbra of the

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European Court of Justice outside the EU legal order and that is what

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we will achieve. Since we joined the Common Market

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until the date we leave, we will have given the EU a total of ?209

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billion. Will the Foreign Secretary make it clear that if they want a

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penny more, they can go and whistle? I am sure my honourable friend the's

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words will have broke like a thunderclap over Brussels and they

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will pay attention to what he has said, and he makes a very valid

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point. I think these sermons I have seen that they proposed to demand

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from this country seem to me at extortionate, and I think to go

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whistle is an appropriate expression. Will the Secretary of

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State ensure in the spirit of cooperation the final Brexit deal is

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endorsed by the devolved parliaments before it assigned? About as the

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honourable gentleman knows very well, we work closely with the

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ministerial committee to bring in the devolved administrations and to

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make sure the great deal we are going to get has their endorsement

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and their approval. Further to the question from the right honourable

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gentleman for Leeds Central, did my right honourable friend he had a

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report on the today programme this morning that other European leaders

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were making it clear that they would not accept a deal on any terms, does

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he share my view that what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the

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gander? May I congratulate my honourable friend on his sixth

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child? Many congratulations on that. He makes a good point about the

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negotiation stance of our friends and partners across the Channel.

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They do sound at the moment they are pretty hard over, as we see in the

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Foreign Office, but I have no doubt in the fullness of time, a

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suddenness will descend and a willingness to compromise, because a

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great Brexit deal, a grapefruit trade deal, a deep and special

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partnership is in our interest -- great deal. Given the given the

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prime Mr's appeal to these benches to help her out, where does the

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Foreign Secretary field there are areas for compromise? As I said, I

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think the striking thing about this debate is how much unanimity there

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is between the two sides of the chamber on the fundamental

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questions. I've been very struck by the right honourable gentleman, the

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leader of the Labour Party, he seems to be very much on all fours with

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the objectives of the Brexit... I don't wish... He very much agrees

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with the position we are taken, they hope to see him in the lobbies with

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us. I hate to disagree with the Foreign Secretary. While he is right

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to say the Leader of the Opposition is fully behind the government, and

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these benches are fully behind the Prime Minister, Foreign Secretary,

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it is the opposition that is hopelessly split on this issue. Is

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that not hindering the government's negotiating position? It is not for

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me to comments on the ability of the Labour leader to control his party,

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I take it they are all following Labour policy, which is to come out

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of the EU, come out of the single market. If they aren't, they can

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stand up now and buy their questions portray their position. They are

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supporting the will of the British people as expressed last year. If

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they wish to dissent from that, now is the time. Can I start by

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welcoming the new Foreign Office front bench in their positions? Back

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in July last year, I wrongly accused them of being an all-male team. If

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only I'd waited a year. I would have been correct. Mr Speaker, talking of

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female Tory MPs, the member of the Newton Abbot use a disgusting racist

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phrase in her Commons at the East India club. I hope the Foreign

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Secretary will join me in condemning them. I hope you will agree

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offensive language deriving from the era of American slavery has no place

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in modern society. The member of Dean Abed was trying to ask a valid

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question. A question about what would happen if Britain fails to

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reach a deal -- Newton Abbot. Can I asked the Foreign Secretary to

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answer that question today? Can he explain what that no deal option

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would mean to the people and businesses of Great Britain? As I've

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said before, I think the chances of such an outcome of vanishingly

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unlikely, since it is manifestly in the interests of both sides of the

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Channel to get a great free trade deal and new special partnership

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between us and the European Union, and that is what we will achieve.

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Unfortunately, it leaves us in on the wiser, it is baffling, it is the

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Prime Minister, at least for now, he decided to put the deal of the no

:17:42.:17:45.

deal option on the table. She couldn't stop using the phrase

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Junior election campaign, and now are me ask what it means in

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practice, they refuse to tell us. The Foreign Office, the Foreign

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Affairs Committee said in December, I quote, the government should

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produce a new deal plan identifying the likely consequences, and making

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proposals to mitigate potential risks. Anything else would be a

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dereliction of duty. We cannot have a repeat... Order. I apologise the

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interesting here, but he needs to bring herself a single sentence,

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because there are lots of colleagues who want to take place. Is normally

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succinct. Return to form. Given a plan to no deal would be worse than

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that dereliction of duty, can I asked the Foreign Secretary to spell

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out what no deal would mean, can you reassure as it is not, at a very

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least he has a private plan to manage the risk? There is no plan

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because we will get a great deal. Just for the sake of example and

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alliteration, I would remind the honourable lady that there was a

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time, I old enough to remember it, when Britain was not in what we call

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the Common Market. Foreign officials are working closely with colleagues

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to prepare for the 400th anniversary, nine please Oliver

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Colville, the former member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport, has

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been appointed chair by the Prime Minister, and they will make the

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most of the opportunity to commemorate the legacy of the

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pilgrims and the special relationship. Well, Mrs Biggar, I

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thought the Prime Minister wanted help from the opposition bench -- Mr

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Speaker. I'm here available. The re-elected co-chair of the pilgrims

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group. I was prepared to offer my services to take on this role rather

:19:47.:19:54.

than on parliamentarians. Nevertheless, can the good people

:19:55.:20:01.

expect support from this government as promised by George Osborne to

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properly celebrate the fact that the pilgrims and their legacy, including

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the modern United States, originates in battered hall? At least eating

:20:11.:20:18.

claim that it has strong coastal links, but we do welcome already his

:20:19.:20:22.

contribution to the House by the comments he made on the 9th of

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March, reminding us of the anniversary, it will be an historic

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opportunity for us to celebrate. Across the sows, we will think of

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every possible way in which we can do so to best effect. The importance

:20:35.:20:39.

of the anniversary can hardly be overstated. Would it not be a more

:20:40.:20:47.

suitable dates for a state visit from the president of the United

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States to have it in 2020 to mark this, rather than in the months to

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come? I note the suggestion, but that matter is already in train, and

:20:58.:21:01.

the visit offered to the president stands. I thank my right honourable

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friend because the UK is in the lead on this issue helping Ukraine to

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make the vital reforms that need to do and to continue on a cracking

:21:18.:21:21.

down on corruption, which is so important if we are to encourage a

:21:22.:21:27.

long-term and continued investment in a successful Ukraine. Can I

:21:28.:21:31.

congratulate my right honourable friend on the organisation last week

:21:32.:21:35.

of the Ukraine reform conference in London? It demonstrates that Britain

:21:36.:21:41.

will continue to play a leading role on the world stage. But can he

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confirm that whilst Ukraine still faces major challenges, progress is

:21:50.:21:53.

being made in areas like tackling corruption, and canny see what more

:21:54.:21:59.

we can do to assist them? May I get the ball back over the net by

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congratulating my right honourable friend on the coming chair on the

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Ukraine all-party group? We all in this House have a clear interest in

:22:09.:22:12.

a strong and successful Ukraine, not why we've invested another 33

:22:13.:22:18.

million in helping Ukrainians to tackle the problems of governance.

:22:19.:22:21.

The House should be in no doubt about what is going on in Ukraine.

:22:22.:22:28.

This is an arm wrestle, if you like, between two value systems come our

:22:29.:22:32.

way of looking at the world and the Russian way, and it is vital for our

:22:33.:22:38.

continent and vital for this country that Alloway prevails, and we're

:22:39.:22:41.

British help, I believe it is prevailing and will prevail. So far

:22:42.:22:53.

there has in a single sign of all the efforts Britain has rightly made

:22:54.:22:57.

in relation to Ukraine, paying dividends in terms of Russia

:22:58.:22:59.

stopping its corrupt meddling in that country. He is right the fault

:23:00.:23:08.

lies with Russia, they annexed Crimea, they drive the problem in

:23:09.:23:13.

the Donbas region. What you are seeing from the UK, and by the way,

:23:14.:23:19.

we are contributing the efforts to stave off that Russian military

:23:20.:23:22.

meddling with a non-lethal equipment that we've agreed to send to

:23:23.:23:30.

Ukraine. But more importantly, we are engaging, held the Ukrainians to

:23:31.:23:34.

sort out their domestic, political scene, to crack down on Russia. To

:23:35.:23:38.

be fair to Ukrainians, they aren't only seeing 4% growth, depending on

:23:39.:23:44.

the figures you believe, but they have made more progress in cracking

:23:45.:23:48.

down on corruption in the last three years than in the last 25 years. A

:23:49.:23:51.

very different country is being born. Our bilateral relationship is

:23:52.:24:00.

strong because it is a deep bond of friendship rooted in our shared

:24:01.:24:03.

histories and common values. We look forward to strengthening those ties

:24:04.:24:07.

over the coming years and have agreed to hold regular strategic

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talks to maximise the full potential of this important bilateral

:24:12.:24:17.

relationship. I thank the Minister that response. Canadian investment

:24:18.:24:21.

is important and my consistency and across the UK. As we move forward in

:24:22.:24:26.

leaving the EU, seeking a free-trade deal with Canada, however

:24:27.:24:29.

relationship will be more important, as is specifically our relationship

:24:30.:24:35.

with the provincial governments. Do we have the network in place across

:24:36.:24:38.

Canada to make sure we are making the best of those relationships? On

:24:39.:24:44.

behalf the House, I express our sympathy to all those in British

:24:45.:24:48.

Columbia who been affected by the damaging wildfires in that province.

:24:49.:24:54.

Our Consulate general in Calgary, Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver do

:24:55.:24:57.

work for a provincial governments to increase bilateral trade,

:24:58.:25:02.

particularly in the infrastructure sector. We are working across all

:25:03.:25:06.

levels of the Canadian government to ensure British companies can take

:25:07.:25:09.

full advantage of the opportunities offered by the Canada EU, rent of

:25:10.:25:15.

economic and trade agreement. Is he not aware, I have strong family

:25:16.:25:22.

relationships and Canada, is he not aware that senior diplomats in

:25:23.:25:27.

Canada are absolutely aghast at the way in which this government is

:25:28.:25:32.

handling our withdrawal from Europe and its impact on world trade? They

:25:33.:25:38.

believe the swashbuckling sector ministers are not the right people.

:25:39.:25:44.

I have to say, positive energy and gumption won't give us a good deal

:25:45.:25:49.

in Europe. We need people who have a eye for detail, this Foreign

:25:50.:25:55.

Secretary has no idea about detail! I simply don't recognise the

:25:56.:25:57.

analysis right honourable gentleman has offered the House on any matter

:25:58.:26:02.

he's just mention. May I say, I think I were opportunities for

:26:03.:26:08.

future trade with Canada will be enormous once we've left the

:26:09.:26:15.

European Union. I thank the Minister, 2017 marks the 150th

:26:16.:26:20.

anniversary of the Canadian Confederation, and our two nations

:26:21.:26:24.

face together some of the most difficult challenges in our history

:26:25.:26:28.

in that period. Will he agree that actually with those relationships,

:26:29.:26:31.

provides a great relationship to build on and reject the nonsense we

:26:32.:26:36.

just heard? Yes, I agree emphatically. We also offer our

:26:37.:26:42.

congratulations to Canada on the anniversary of Canadian

:26:43.:26:45.

Confederation. We are please the Prince of Wales and the Duchess of

:26:46.:26:49.

Cornwall were able to join celebrations in Ottawa to mark the

:26:50.:26:53.

celebration. On a practical basis, the Foreign Secretary met Foreign

:26:54.:26:57.

Minister last week and agreed to hold talks to ensure we can maximise

:26:58.:27:02.

the full potential of this important and close by that relationship way

:27:03.:27:06.

beyond the expectations of the right honourable gentleman opposite.

:27:07.:27:15.

Thank you, Mr Speaker. We have a strong and wide-ranging relationship

:27:16.:27:22.

with the Philippines on prosperity, education and security issue.

:27:23.:27:24.

Ministerial visits to the Philippines and annual high-level

:27:25.:27:28.

talks between officials help a graph that corporation. Most recently, my

:27:29.:27:33.

right honourable friend was there as recently as last December and this

:27:34.:27:37.

enables us to discuss concerns about human rights was pursuing closer

:27:38.:27:44.

diplomatic and trade links. Mr Speaker, my skin constituency has

:27:45.:27:52.

been held in Philippines since 2008. Sentence on to produce foreign

:27:53.:27:58.

employment defence. They have failed to acknowledge a clemency request

:27:59.:28:02.

despite his poor health. Concerns about the safety of the institution

:28:03.:28:05.

and his parents worried they will not see him again. Well my

:28:06.:28:07.

honourable friend set out what is being done to support his family's

:28:08.:28:14.

efforts to bring him home? May I thank for his work over the

:28:15.:28:20.

many years on behalf of Mr Taylor's parents in North Swindon. We have

:28:21.:28:24.

been providing ongoing well for support to Kevin Taylor since his

:28:25.:28:28.

arrest almost ten years ago. Most recently a visit in prison and we

:28:29.:28:32.

have liaised with his parents only yesterday. Our consulates are bought

:28:33.:28:39.

as extended to delivering funds and vitamins, medical points after Mr

:28:40.:28:42.

Taylor brought his health concerns to our attention. A clemency request

:28:43.:28:46.

was made as recently as 2015 that I reassure my honourable friend we

:28:47.:28:49.

will do our level best to continue this work and I will be in touch

:28:50.:28:54.

without apartment to ask to redouble his efforts in the days ahead. Thank

:28:55.:29:03.

you, Mr Speaker. In the year since the president of Philippines took

:29:04.:29:06.

ASBOs, 13,000 people have been killed. He has threatened to extend

:29:07.:29:11.

martial law across the entire country and last week, he said he

:29:12.:29:16.

would eat the livers of terrorists with salt and vinegar. But the

:29:17.:29:21.

Secretary of State for International Development claims that Britain has

:29:22.:29:25.

shared values with the president. Could the Minister tell the House

:29:26.:29:28.

which values we share with the President? The honourable lady will

:29:29.:29:33.

recognise the shared values in relation to international trade and

:29:34.:29:38.

we need to recognise that. Indeed with all dedication, it is not an

:29:39.:29:42.

issue of ditching anything else, I, like the honourable lady, concerned

:29:43.:29:45.

about the high death toll in the war on illegal drugs has come to a head

:29:46.:29:52.

in his role. We have been urging much more thorough independent

:29:53.:29:54.

instigation at all violent deaths that have taken place I would say

:29:55.:29:59.

that from our perspective, we have repeatedly and will continue to

:30:00.:30:03.

raise human rights concerns with the administration and I will be doing

:30:04.:30:06.

so with Manila and I have at some to be visiting to make light of the

:30:07.:30:17.

Kaci made. -- the case she has made. Pay tribute to the campaigns on the

:30:18.:30:23.

subject, our policy in relationship to Zimbabwe kiddies used to be to

:30:24.:30:27.

balance out the best days of the horrifying record of Bieber Gabi

:30:28.:30:35.

regime -- Mugabe and the people have suffered terribly over the last 40

:30:36.:30:39.

years. Can I welcome the honourable member to his position and wish him

:30:40.:30:47.

every success in it? $53 million was spent by Mugabe on private travel

:30:48.:30:51.

overseas last year, the same time the United Kingdom paying

:30:52.:30:55.

proportionally more in UK aid to that country than any other country

:30:56.:30:59.

in Africa. Does he think that perhaps with the election is coming

:31:00.:31:04.

next year and Mugabe refusing to permit the 20 13th Constitution, now

:31:05.:31:08.

is the time to put some of that money into helping voter education

:31:09.:31:17.

in those rural areas can show? Thank you, Mr Speaker. The answer is that

:31:18.:31:21.

I agree. We are trying to balance a very difficult thing which is the

:31:22.:31:25.

terrible performance of the Mugabe regime with a country where people

:31:26.:31:28.

have been dying of cholera, suffering extreme him a humour tarry

:31:29.:31:34.

in need. Focusing on free and fair elections is one of the first things

:31:35.:31:40.

we can do in a country like Zimbabwe. The policy of incremental

:31:41.:31:46.

engagement with Zimbabwe is the be best, sometimes an unpalatable best

:31:47.:31:50.

policy. But with the Minister consider in the near term actually

:31:51.:31:54.

visiting Zimbabwe, which would be a great step forward and prospered the

:31:55.:31:58.

UK in a better position for relationships longer term? The

:31:59.:32:05.

honourable member has huge expertise is African Minister. The decision on

:32:06.:32:12.

whether or not I as a minister were to visit Zimbabwe depends a great

:32:13.:32:15.

deal on the genuine commitment to the Zimbabwe Government towards

:32:16.:32:18.

reform and I will be guided by the ambassador of the country as to when

:32:19.:32:21.

such a visit would be necessary and possible.

:32:22.:32:27.

Number eight. We are in costs contact with our

:32:28.:32:30.

international counterparts, including most recently at the

:32:31.:32:34.

organisation of American States summit last month. I issued a very

:32:35.:32:38.

strong statement on the 6th of July, utterly condemning the 5th of July

:32:39.:32:42.

attack on Venezuela's national assembly and its elected members and

:32:43.:32:46.

calling for the Venezuelan Government to uphold the

:32:47.:32:49.

Constitution and show respect for democratic institutions and the

:32:50.:32:52.

statement was echoed by many political colleagues across the

:32:53.:32:57.

world mark. Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Leader of

:32:58.:33:01.

the Opposition described the regime in Venezuela is offering an

:33:02.:33:05.

alternative agenda from which we could learn. The alternative agenda

:33:06.:33:13.

has seen the economy collapse, poverty increase, dozens of people,

:33:14.:33:17.

scores of people killed in civil unrest and now an attempt to

:33:18.:33:22.

undermine both the elected Congress and the independent Attorney

:33:23.:33:24.

General. Will my right honourable friend confirm that Her Majesty's

:33:25.:33:28.

Government strongly condemns the attempt by the regime to rewrite the

:33:29.:33:34.

constitution and rock out democracy? The Leader of the Opposition does

:33:35.:33:39.

seem to be a great fan of the Venezuelan Government. A passable

:33:40.:33:43.

impression himself as Fidel Castro won sometimes things. What is

:33:44.:33:47.

happening to the Venezuelan economy gives us a very clear indication of

:33:48.:33:51.

what would happen to the UK economy if ever the right honourable

:33:52.:33:56.

gentleman were Prime Minister. Mr Speaker, what practical steps

:33:57.:34:00.

have been taken to deal with famine on the border between Venezuela and

:34:01.:34:04.

Colombia by the British Government? There are no easy such attempts. We

:34:05.:34:08.

do not have a bilateral programme that are in touch with the United

:34:09.:34:11.

Nations. But the very question of the honourable lady does illustrate

:34:12.:34:16.

the extent to which the Venezuelan Government has driven their own

:34:17.:34:20.

people to poverty, running very short of some of the most basic

:34:21.:34:25.

goods on which they have to live. Number nine, Mr Speaker.

:34:26.:34:31.

Mr Speaker. We readily raise these issues with Israel, calling for a

:34:32.:34:37.

reversal of the policy of settlement expansion. I reiterated that in the

:34:38.:34:42.

House of Commons last week but also recently both the Foreign Secretary

:34:43.:34:44.

and myself have made statements strongly condemning proposals the

:34:45.:34:48.

new settlement expansion in both the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

:34:49.:34:56.

Mr Speaker, only last week the right-wing Israeli Government

:34:57.:34:58.

announced a further expansion of the illegal settlement programme so it

:34:59.:35:03.

is clear that whatever action the British Government is taking, it is

:35:04.:35:07.

not working. It is not time Her Majesty's Government to more

:35:08.:35:14.

response to this problem? Ensuring the proper labelling of all

:35:15.:35:18.

importing goods so that they are designated as coming from an

:35:19.:35:22.

illegally occupied Palestinian territory.

:35:23.:35:25.

This is a long and difficult process, as the honourable gentleman

:35:26.:35:30.

rightly dies. We have a policy in relation to labelling and continued

:35:31.:35:33.

conversations will go on with the state of Israel in relation to, as

:35:34.:35:36.

last week, the suggestion that the edge of the new housing units being

:35:37.:35:42.

built and East Jerusalem. But it is a complex process, the United

:35:43.:35:45.

Kingdom does not believe in boycotts of sanctions, but clear labelling

:35:46.:35:48.

has been that the sometimes consumers can take their choice.

:35:49.:35:53.

We have contributed to a number of structures, EU structures that have

:35:54.:35:57.

been demolished. Will he asked the Government of Israel for our money

:35:58.:36:04.

back? Mr Speaker, I think my right honourable friend is referring to

:36:05.:36:09.

some work done by the EU. The EU has not sought compensation from the

:36:10.:36:11.

state of Israel in relation to this and no decision has been taken on

:36:12.:36:17.

any further action. Settlements are a barrier but they

:36:18.:36:20.

are far from the only barrier to peace. The building blocks for the

:36:21.:36:23.

peace process is our trade and economic development in the West

:36:24.:36:31.

Bank and supports the coexistent projects to get them working

:36:32.:36:35.

together. Funding for which, I'm afraid, this Government has stopped.

:36:36.:36:38.

Can I asked the minister whether he will reinstate funding to the

:36:39.:36:43.

coexistent projects to build the priest projects? The honourable

:36:44.:36:45.

gentleman understands this issue extremely well and a extreme

:36:46.:36:52.

bill-mac -- I agree there are building blocks and settlements are

:36:53.:36:56.

by far from the only barrier in relations to that. Trade and

:36:57.:37:00.

investment remains very important. We will be looking further out what

:37:01.:37:05.

prospects are for any new initiatives. I'm aware of the

:37:06.:37:08.

coexistent projects that he mentions and certainly I will be having a

:37:09.:37:11.

look about wearing my joint responsibilities.

:37:12.:37:18.

Mr Speaker, we are glad to see the Mr back working on this issue. But

:37:19.:37:22.

this is the second time in the space of a week when the Foreign Secretary

:37:23.:37:26.

has declined to speak about middle east and evolve the job to him

:37:27.:37:33.

instead. And that follows his failure even to mention Israel or

:37:34.:37:37.

Palestine in the Tory election manifesto. So I simply ask the

:37:38.:37:41.

Minister, when are we going to hear the Foreign Secretary stand up and

:37:42.:37:43.

condemn these new illegal settlements? The other day, this

:37:44.:37:51.

week. I did it this week. Can I find the honourable lady for her warm

:37:52.:37:55.

welcome and enjoy being back in this role, no matter what is broken at me

:37:56.:37:59.

in response to it. Can I say the Foreign Secretary strongly condemned

:38:00.:38:05.

the proposals that were announced at the West Bank quite recently. But I

:38:06.:38:08.

like to feel he has confidence in his Minister for the Middle East. As

:38:09.:38:15.

he has confidence in his soul missed a team to answer appropriate

:38:16.:38:18.

questions but I have never known him to be shy of answering a question

:38:19.:38:24.

when necessary. Question Time, Mr Speaker. Thank you, Mr Speaker.

:38:25.:38:32.

United Kingdom was instrumental, Mr Speaker, in securing the Paris

:38:33.:38:36.

agreement on climate change. We are helping other countries to meet

:38:37.:38:39.

their targets and we are confident that we will be able to meet our own

:38:40.:38:44.

ground-breaking target of reducing emissions by 18% by 2050. I thank

:38:45.:38:50.

the Foreign Secretary for his answer. Last week, Downing Street

:38:51.:38:55.

said the primers are intended to challenge President Trump on climate

:38:56.:38:59.

change at the G20 meeting. With this and how have been better done before

:39:00.:39:02.

he announced he was pulling out of the Paris agreement than after? As I

:39:03.:39:08.

have told the House before, we made our views very clear to the US

:39:09.:39:12.

administration, repeatedly we have expressed dismay that they have

:39:13.:39:17.

withdrawn. But on the other hand, I think all members on both sides of

:39:18.:39:21.

the House should acknowledge in all fairness that the United States has

:39:22.:39:27.

made and continues to make, even under this initiation, continues to

:39:28.:39:30.

make substantial progress in reducing greenhouse gases. This

:39:31.:39:42.

country has reduced CO2 by 42% since 1990, despite a 67% increase in GDP.

:39:43.:39:48.

The United States has achieved, report progress and we intend to

:39:49.:39:56.

encourage them on that path. Following the isolation of Donald

:39:57.:40:00.

Trump at last week G20 Summit, on the issue of the Paris agreement,

:40:01.:40:06.

further postponement of the trip to the UK, can I ask the sexual simple

:40:07.:40:14.

question. Does the Government regard President John is the leader of the

:40:15.:40:19.

free world, is so, how would they rate the job he is doing... As a

:40:20.:40:30.

mark out of ten? -- president Trump. We certainly regard the achievement

:40:31.:40:35.

of the Prime Minister as considerable as getting the US

:40:36.:40:40.

president to sign up actually to the G20 agreement on climate change, as

:40:41.:40:47.

she did. She is instrumental in getting the Americans to endorse.

:40:48.:40:50.

Getting the Americans to sign up to the communique and I think members

:40:51.:40:55.

on all sides of the House will appreciate that whatever

:40:56.:40:57.

disagreements they have with the current incumbent of the White

:40:58.:41:01.

House, the president of the United States is the leader of our most

:41:02.:41:07.

important ally and he deserves that and respect for the consideration of

:41:08.:41:11.

this country. Question 11, Mr Speaker. With the Foreign

:41:12.:41:22.

Secretary's permission, ensuring the promotion of human rights and

:41:23.:41:25.

engaging with this next essential part of the global policy of

:41:26.:41:29.

Britain, ministers meet their cultivars readily and raise issues,

:41:30.:41:35.

gender equality, modern slavery, freedom of belief and religion, the

:41:36.:41:40.

death penalty and torture. It is an essential part is who we are the

:41:41.:41:43.

United Kingdom and the Foreign Commonwealth Office. Back in March,

:41:44.:41:52.

the UN human rights Council to commit atrocities. Women being raped

:41:53.:42:03.

by the security forces. Does the Minister agree that the perpetrators

:42:04.:42:07.

of such crime be brought to justice as a matter of urgency? And can he

:42:08.:42:12.

tell us what I was recently in Burma and was able

:42:13.:42:23.

to reaffirm the United Kingdom's sport for the Independent United

:42:24.:42:27.

Nations commission. This is a difficult issue being wrestled with

:42:28.:42:31.

by those in Burma. And the UK remains very close to the

:42:32.:42:38.

humanitarian needs of the people there. The World Trade Organisation

:42:39.:42:43.

estimates three out only for trade deals include provisions to improve

:42:44.:42:48.

human rights, is what discussions has my honourable friend been having

:42:49.:42:51.

with his colleagues in the Department of trade to make sure our

:42:52.:42:55.

new trade deals include obligations to improve human rights where it is

:42:56.:43:03.

appropriate? My right honourable friend is right, ensuring human

:43:04.:43:07.

rights are an essential part of the future policy of the UK in terms of

:43:08.:43:12.

trade deals. As these issues are raised now, it's an important part

:43:13.:43:15.

of future and will continue to be a key part of our prosperity drive.

:43:16.:43:21.

Following the arrest of amnesty International Turkey director, they

:43:22.:43:30.

are examples of the worrying shift away from respected human rights in

:43:31.:43:35.

Turkey. What steps has the Foreign Secretary himself taken to ensure

:43:36.:43:42.

the immediate and unconditional release of these two people? The

:43:43.:43:48.

right honourable lady knows these issues extremely well. My right

:43:49.:43:51.

honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has raised this with his

:43:52.:43:54.

counterpart on the Prime Minister raise this as the T20 were the

:43:55.:44:02.

president of Turkey -- G20. This remains an important issue. On his

:44:03.:44:07.

recent visit to Burma, did he encourage the Burmese government to

:44:08.:44:11.

allow full access and cooperate fully with the fact-finding machine

:44:12.:44:15.

looking into human rights issues in that country. Yes, indeed. It is a

:44:16.:44:22.

difficult issue but we've made it very clear that the UN independent

:44:23.:44:29.

report need full consideration. We'd urge the government to do all they

:44:30.:44:34.

can to facilitate what the UN needs to complete its work. There is an

:44:35.:44:37.

internal investigation already been carried out by the Burmese

:44:38.:44:39.

government. We have been able to gain access

:44:40.:44:55.

through our console. What efforts are being made to ensure the human

:44:56.:44:59.

rights and the medical needs of the two people in prison are being

:45:00.:45:06.

protected? Mr Speaker, I met with the family last week. I've raised

:45:07.:45:11.

this issue directly with my counterpart, the Deputy Foreign

:45:12.:45:14.

Minister of around, and the Iranian ambassador. We remain concerned

:45:15.:45:20.

about this and other consulate cases involving around. I can assure the

:45:21.:45:24.

lady we will continue to raise these at the highest issue. Briefly from

:45:25.:45:33.

the front bench. As a government celebrated his victory in the High

:45:34.:45:36.

Court over arms sales to Saudi Arabia, number of people affected by

:45:37.:45:41.

the cholera epidemic in Yemen past 300,000. Humanitarian workers face a

:45:42.:45:48.

choice of using it twinkling food supplies to be those children

:45:49.:45:52.

suffering from malnutrition or those infected with cholera. In that

:45:53.:45:56.

context, can the Minister told the House wired the Saudi led Coalition

:45:57.:46:02.

continues to use British bombs to attack farms, food factories and

:46:03.:46:09.

water plants? The judgment by the gorgeous today was unequivocal in

:46:10.:46:14.

saying the United Kingdom had fully fulfilled its obligations under the

:46:15.:46:18.

control of the arms trade. And also the work that was being toured with

:46:19.:46:22.

the kingdom of Saudi Arabia in relation to its response to

:46:23.:46:25.

international humanitarian law was fundamental to that judgment. The

:46:26.:46:29.

situation in Yemen remains a humanitarian disaster, the actor

:46:30.:46:33.

Kingdom is involved in seeking to do all it can, the cholera outbreak has

:46:34.:46:41.

taken some 6500 cases each day. I am pleased we are fully engaged and

:46:42.:46:45.

tried to do all we can to mitigate these actions -- United Kingdom.

:46:46.:46:57.

He is new, I thought I was new, too. I am concerned the democratic

:46:58.:47:04.

freedoms continue to face fundamental restrictions in the

:47:05.:47:08.

Maldives. Pressure, including arrests has grown. Human rights

:47:09.:47:11.

activists, the media art under threat. The government raise these

:47:12.:47:17.

issues frequently with the Maldives government and we led the recent UN

:47:18.:47:22.

statement in the gene human rights Council. My right honourable friend

:47:23.:47:29.

will know that a Coalition of opposition parties in the Maldives,

:47:30.:47:35.

led by the former president, committed to democracy and proving

:47:36.:47:38.

relations with this country, has secured a majority in that country's

:47:39.:47:42.

parliament. Does he share my concern is that the regime may resort to

:47:43.:47:48.

legal means to prevent Parliament from properly functioning in that

:47:49.:47:54.

country? I am very concerned is at that prospect. I have to say, no

:47:55.:48:00.

one's hands in recent years in any part of the political environment in

:48:01.:48:03.

the Maldives have been entirely clean. It has not been a happy

:48:04.:48:07.

situation across the board. The biggest regret we have on this site

:48:08.:48:12.

is the Maldives unilaterally left the Commonwealth in 2016, and I hope

:48:13.:48:16.

a new regime will bring them back into the international regime in

:48:17.:48:27.

this way. Firstly we should pay tribute to what United States has

:48:28.:48:30.

done with its peacekeeping budget. It provides well over a quarter of

:48:31.:48:34.

the global peacekeeping budget. Over $2 billion a year, which has not

:48:35.:48:40.

eligible, so we need to pay tribute and encourage them to play the role,

:48:41.:48:45.

that essential part. And then sticking to the Congressional limit

:48:46.:48:49.

of 25% is vital for the UN peacekeeping operations. Does the

:48:50.:48:54.

Minister agree the loss of financial support from the US will be

:48:55.:49:01.

devastating, such as the world food programme Will they get them to

:49:02.:49:12.

reconsider their planned cuts? It is right, in the current global

:49:13.:49:15.

situation, UN peacekeeping operations are vital. But reforms

:49:16.:49:21.

can be introduced. The move to close on the peacekeeping operation in

:49:22.:49:26.

Ivory Coast, we can reduce costs and peacekeeping. It is vital the States

:49:27.:49:30.

and others continue play a strong role, and support from United States

:49:31.:49:35.

has been vital for the last 50 years and we hope it will continue to be.

:49:36.:49:43.

Topical questions. Can I just remind colleagues in this Parliament,

:49:44.:49:49.

topical questions are sure to be as -- supposed to be shorter. My

:49:50.:49:56.

priority is to help resolve tensions in the Gulf where Britain has all

:49:57.:50:00.

friendships and vital interests, that's why I've just returned from

:50:01.:50:05.

visits to Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and cut. I reinforce the need for

:50:06.:50:08.

dialogue. I will the summit in Trieste tomorrow, whether UK is

:50:09.:50:15.

playing a vital role in guaranteeing stability and resisting Russian

:50:16.:50:24.

ambitions. Yesterday in Kashmir, seven Hindu pilgrims were brutally

:50:25.:50:28.

murdered by terrorists, including five women whilst undergoing it.

:50:29.:50:34.

What action has my right honourable friend taken to condemn this

:50:35.:50:39.

outrage? Waterboard will he give to recovering and bringing to justice

:50:40.:50:47.

the terrorists who we believe are in Pakistan -- what will he give? The

:50:48.:50:52.

whole issue is something we are in close contact with. I give the

:50:53.:51:00.

issuer and we will bring this up in the course of the next 24 hours and

:51:01.:51:04.

as for a plan of action in the wake he has asked. Does the Foreign

:51:05.:51:08.

Secretary agree that if there's to be an extension of military action

:51:09.:51:12.

in Syria, there should be a full debate and vote in this House? That

:51:13.:51:17.

is for the Leader of the House to consider, I can tell him that no

:51:18.:51:23.

such request has been made. I must say I think the difference in the

:51:24.:51:28.

current American administration's attitude, many people on the other

:51:29.:51:32.

side of the House, is to be welcomed. As America appears to be

:51:33.:51:44.

volunteering we surrendering power, and from the main platform of our

:51:45.:51:48.

interest in the several decades, it is not vital the Foreign Office

:51:49.:51:53.

address is substantially to beef up our dramatic effort so we may retain

:51:54.:52:00.

our prosperity, security and our influence abroad? I'm delighted to

:52:01.:52:06.

welcome him to a cause I think is gathering strength across both sides

:52:07.:52:12.

of the House of Commons, everybody understands, global Britain must be

:52:13.:52:15.

properly supported. We have a world-class network of embassies,

:52:16.:52:22.

278, the best foreign service in the world, but they do need proper

:52:23.:52:28.

financing and proper support. The Foreign Secretary has spoken in the

:52:29.:52:31.

past about his ardent opposition to female genital meat elation. We'll

:52:32.:52:36.

he therefore have a word with the Home Secretary who is yet to respond

:52:37.:52:41.

to be -- mutilation. She is threatened with deportation. I raise

:52:42.:52:45.

it with the Prime Minister and have yet to receive an answer. I heard

:52:46.:52:55.

her raised this before. I'm sure the case of her constituent is indeed

:52:56.:52:59.

very troubling. I'm sure the Home Secretary will have picked up what

:53:00.:53:04.

she's had to say today. I welcome the part played by purchase forces

:53:05.:53:09.

in stabilising the threat posed by Daesh. What does he and British

:53:10.:53:13.

forces for ensuring that such an insurgency does not recur? I thank

:53:14.:53:21.

him for an excellent question. It is one thing but others to drive Daesh

:53:22.:53:27.

out of Ozil, but we must make sure the reasons they sprouted in those

:53:28.:53:35.

cities do not recur and that this study -- the Sunni minority have the

:53:36.:53:44.

confidence in their country. Not since the Suez crisis has a UK

:53:45.:53:48.

Government been so combines of the defeated at the United Nations, as

:53:49.:53:52.

it was last week. In this week's spirit of bipartisan cooperation,

:53:53.:53:57.

should the Foreign Secretary would not grant the right of return? I

:53:58.:54:04.

must respectfully disagree with the gentleman opposite. We secured

:54:05.:54:09.

rather more positive votes than we had expected. As it happens, the

:54:10.:54:14.

other side of the case got fewer than half the members of the UN in

:54:15.:54:20.

support of their cause. I think that most impartial observers of the

:54:21.:54:22.

matter would agree their case has been substantially weakened as a

:54:23.:54:26.

result, not that it was a strong case to begin with. Last week

:54:27.:54:35.

Palestinian president said he would continue paying prisoner salaries to

:54:36.:54:38.

people who are murdered innocent civilians. Does the Foreign

:54:39.:54:42.

Secretary agree with me that there is nowhere we will have peace in the

:54:43.:54:48.

Middle East unless there are projects and support for coexistence

:54:49.:54:55.

on the Palestinian side? My honourable friend is right, there

:54:56.:54:58.

are a number of barriers on the Palestinian side to be able to make

:54:59.:55:03.

progress. Support for incitement and terror is one of those, we are

:55:04.:55:07.

looking carefully to make sure no payments go in the wrong direction.

:55:08.:55:11.

It is true the Palestinian authority need to look very hard to make sure

:55:12.:55:15.

it is not giving the wrong signals as we try to make progress on the

:55:16.:55:16.

middle East peace process. Will the Minister pick up the phone

:55:17.:55:29.

to the opposite numbers in India, do a deal to get the men deported so we

:55:30.:55:35.

can have a pint in Chester before the summer is out? I do appreciate

:55:36.:55:39.

the persistent with which he campaigns from his constituents, and

:55:40.:55:44.

his raise it with me. I have in turn raises myself personally with my

:55:45.:55:49.

Indian counterparts. What they say to me is they cannot interfere in

:55:50.:55:54.

their own court system anymore than we can interfere in our own

:55:55.:55:58.

quarters. That is where the massacre of your stance, but I want to assure

:55:59.:56:05.

him we continue to raise him on that issue.

:56:06.:56:11.

Does my right arm friend agree we have, as we leave the EU, a great

:56:12.:56:18.

opportunity to boost our mutual trade and security interests by

:56:19.:56:21.

enhancing our diplomatic relations with Ghana and other Commonwealth

:56:22.:56:26.

countries? I want to pay tribute to the right honourable member, Ghana

:56:27.:56:31.

is one of the most impressive recent of ultimate in Africa, three recent

:56:32.:56:36.

transitions of democratic power, a rapidly growing economy and huge

:56:37.:56:41.

example of how we moved to the Commonwealth, the Commonwealth can

:56:42.:56:43.

become one of the great success stories of Britain's next five

:56:44.:56:51.

years. The Paralympic games in Rio were a great success, showing

:56:52.:56:55.

inspirational talent and importance of sports included worldwide. What

:56:56.:56:59.

discussions has a foreign of us had with Japanese counterparts to lend

:57:00.:57:02.

our full support to the Tokyo Paralympic games going forward?

:57:03.:57:07.

I thank you right honourable lady for her question. A huge amount of

:57:08.:57:18.

work is going on. But also very importantly, she rightly says, the

:57:19.:57:21.

Shia organisation and we are working very closely to make sure there is a

:57:22.:57:27.

seamless progress between 2012. I think it is going to be a great

:57:28.:57:30.

success, the Paralympic games in Tokyo. In the next few weeks, the HR

:57:31.:57:36.

Government from Libya are coming over here to visit the UK. I am

:57:37.:57:40.

wondering if my right honourable friend or any of the friend bench

:57:41.:57:43.

would like to meet them when they come over here because they play a

:57:44.:57:47.

pivotal role in keeping peace in Libya. Mr Speaker, an expansion of

:57:48.:57:53.

the Libyan political agreement we believe is necessary to move matters

:57:54.:57:57.

along. There is a lot happening on the political and business side and

:57:58.:58:01.

Libya as it gets back on its feet. Her be happy to meet those whom I

:58:02.:58:04.

honourable friend wants to bring forward. Given the collapse of the

:58:05.:58:07.

talks in Cyprus and that the Government remains a guarantor of

:58:08.:58:10.

the process, what is the Government going to do now? Mr Speaker, very

:58:11.:58:16.

sadly, the cyber stalks on which people have done so much work for

:58:17.:58:20.

over two years collapse in the early hours of Friday morning. -- these I

:58:21.:58:26.

press talks. This was a once in a generation trustee reunify the

:58:27.:58:30.

island. Sadly it has been missed and rejected so we go back to the status

:58:31.:58:36.

quo and it is enormous pity indeed, a tragedy for future generations

:58:37.:58:42.

that agreement was not reached. In view of the continuing concerns

:58:43.:58:47.

about human rights in Hong Kong, does my right honourable friend the

:58:48.:58:50.

Foreign Secretary intend to make any further representation on the joint

:58:51.:58:55.

declaration? I hope my honourable friend will be assured that the UK

:58:56.:58:58.

has been very active in emphasising the significance of this joint

:58:59.:59:03.

British decoration which is a legally binding treated richly with

:59:04.:59:06.

the UN and continues to be reinforced today. Join my own

:59:07.:59:10.

meeting with the Chinese ambassador I stress the UK's strong commitment

:59:11.:59:14.

to the joint declaration. We urge the Chinese and the Hong Kong and

:59:15.:59:18.

mistress and governors and all politicians in Hong Kong to retain

:59:19.:59:21.

from any actions that Bill Clinton or undermine confidence in the one

:59:22.:59:26.

country two systems principle. The Foreign Secretary has rightly

:59:27.:59:32.

underlined the UK US relations in this new role. The relationship is

:59:33.:59:36.

collect the light by cultural programmes which are now in peril by

:59:37.:59:41.

President Trump's proposal to cut 47% from the budget. Will he make

:59:42.:59:46.

representations to underline how we think the programme should be

:59:47.:59:49.

expanded and pushed to the point of extinction? I stand here as a

:59:50.:59:53.

Kennedy scholar which is a very similar sort of structure and we

:59:54.:59:57.

have a fantastic programme of scholars sponsored by the front

:59:58.:00:01.

office. My right honourable friend has confirmed that he will raise the

:00:02.:00:05.

issue of scholarships with secretary to listen when he next season.

:00:06.:00:11.

With a quart of a million people now refugees as a result of the

:00:12.:00:18.

repression in human rights abuses in that country, what is the Foreign

:00:19.:00:21.

Secretary doing to stimulate dialogue to resolve the political

:00:22.:00:29.

impasse that? The situation in Bindi is very disturbing, we call upon all

:00:30.:00:34.

on the brilliant president to -- upon the President and leading the

:00:35.:00:40.

peace talks in Burundi as in so many countries in the war, the only

:00:41.:00:45.

long-term solution is a political salutes you -- solution to a crisis.

:00:46.:00:52.

Friends of Syria to discuss the desperate need to get more aid to

:00:53.:00:56.

the hundreds of thousands being starved to death in Syria. I thank

:00:57.:01:05.

the honourable gentleman for his persistence in pursuing this cause

:01:06.:01:08.

and he is absolutely right, we have spoken across the chamber many times

:01:09.:01:12.

about the humanitarian crisis in Syria. I will have great pleasure in

:01:13.:01:17.

meeting the Syria group to discuss what the UK is doing by the House

:01:18.:01:21.

will know that this country is the single, the second-biggest

:01:22.:01:24.

contributor of humanity relief aid to Syria in the wild. Whilst I

:01:25.:01:31.

welcome the fact that the Prime Minister raise the issue of the at

:01:32.:01:41.

the G20, can he focuses efforts on the Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu and

:01:42.:01:45.

seek a meeting with her urgently, it is almost four years have our bodies

:01:46.:01:49.

have been languishing in jail there. I visited them myself. It is time

:01:50.:01:55.

they were brought home. My right honourable friend is absolutely

:01:56.:02:00.

right. He suggests an interesting avenue for further work. I will look

:02:01.:02:06.

at the possibility of talking to the Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu.

:02:07.:02:08.

Whether we will be more successful in her in making our points, I wore

:02:09.:02:12.

ascertained. We will leave no stone unturned. Mr Speaker, last week at

:02:13.:02:19.

the same time as represented ?57 were meeting in the next, they were

:02:20.:02:27.

convicting a human rights activist the charges on which defence

:02:28.:02:30.

witnesses were not allowed to testify. The defendant was taken to

:02:31.:02:35.

hospital during the trial and it was convicted in his absence. What

:02:36.:02:39.

action the Government is taking to make sure the authorities in

:02:40.:02:44.

Belarus... The most important thing we can do is enhance our bilateral

:02:45.:02:48.

relations by visitor. No minister has visited Belarus for many years

:02:49.:02:52.

and I intend to do so at the earliest opportunity.

:02:53.:02:58.

As well as the physical rebuilding of Mosul, the Iraqi constitution

:02:59.:03:06.

allows for them to regain power, looking at devolving power to the

:03:07.:03:12.

people of Mosul. I am grateful to my honourable friend. He is right that

:03:13.:03:20.

Iraq is an ethnically divided country, religiously divided

:03:21.:03:23.

country, we must make sure that everybody feels properly represented

:03:24.:03:29.

in the new constitution and evolution to Mosul is certainly an

:03:30.:03:34.

option that we will be exploring. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Before he

:03:35.:03:41.

meets the friends of Syria group, will he discussed a comrade is a

:03:42.:03:46.

strategy to protect civilians with the Department for International

:03:47.:03:48.

Development and a Ministry of Defence and we can have a proper

:03:49.:03:53.

joint strategy at last? I can tell the honourable lady that is already

:03:54.:03:58.

happening. Extremely grateful to the Foreign Secretary. I recognise there

:03:59.:04:04.

is so unsatisfied demand but not as much as they might have been if I

:04:05.:04:07.

had not overrun which I was pleased to do and I'm sure the Foreign

:04:08.:04:11.

Secretary was equally enthusiastic. We will now proceed to the statement

:04:12.:04:20.

by the parliament under section of state for business, energy and

:04:21.:04:24.

industrial strategy. Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State Margot

:04:25.:04:25.

James. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Wealth

:04:26.:04:48.

permission, I would like to make a statement about the independent

:04:49.:04:52.

review of model working practices which was led by Matthew Taylor and

:04:53.:04:57.

published earlier today. Mr Speaker, the review said that that British

:04:58.:05:01.

business a success for creating jobs, enhancing earning power and

:05:02.:05:06.

improving life chances across the UK. Employment rates are the highest

:05:07.:05:11.

since records began stop unemployment and economic inactivity

:05:12.:05:14.

record lows. More people are in work than ever before and minimum wage

:05:15.:05:20.

rates have never been higher. This is a story of success and one which

:05:21.:05:24.

this Government will seek to sustain. The UK's economy continued

:05:25.:05:30.

success is built on the flexibility of our labour market, which benefits

:05:31.:05:35.

both workers and business. Businesses can create jobs and

:05:36.:05:39.

individuals can find work because our labour market regulation

:05:40.:05:42.

balances the demands both. Minimum standards set a baseline, beyond

:05:43.:05:47.

which is the air is flexibility to set arrangements to suit all

:05:48.:05:51.

parties. Our dynamic approach responds well to fluctuations in the

:05:52.:05:55.

economic cycle, without the structural weakness is present in

:05:56.:05:59.

some other countries. It is important that we preserve the

:06:00.:06:02.

success, but also enhance it further. While the majority of

:06:03.:06:09.

people employed in the UK are in full-time, permanent employment,

:06:10.:06:13.

globalisation, demographics and especially technology are changing

:06:14.:06:17.

the way in which we work. We need to make sure that the British labour

:06:18.:06:21.

market stays strong and everyone in the UK can benefit from it. And that

:06:22.:06:28.

is why last year, the Prime Minister asked Matthew Taylor, chief

:06:29.:06:31.

executive of the Royal Society of arts, to lead an independent review

:06:32.:06:34.

into employment practices in the modern economy. That review has now

:06:35.:06:39.

been published and I am delighted to lay a copy in the House library

:06:40.:06:43.

today. It is a thorough and detailed piece of work for which I am very

:06:44.:06:49.

grateful. Not only to Matthew and his panel members, but also to the

:06:50.:06:53.

numerous businesses, trade unions, organisations and individuals who

:06:54.:06:57.

have provided their views on this very important topic. The review has

:06:58.:07:06.

a strong overarching ambition, but all work in the UK should be fair

:07:07.:07:09.

and decent with realistic scope for fulfilment and progression. Matthew

:07:10.:07:13.

has outlined seven principles to meeting this ambition and I would

:07:14.:07:18.

urge honourable member is to examine these principles and the rest of the

:07:19.:07:23.

report in detail senses is an important contribution to a crucial

:07:24.:07:28.

subject, but to summarise these principles, they are that our

:07:29.:07:31.

national strategy for work should be explicitly directed towards the goal

:07:32.:07:37.

of good works rural. That platform based working welcomes opportunities

:07:38.:07:42.

for genuine flexibility but there should be greater distinction

:07:43.:07:48.

between workers or, as the review suggests renaming them, depending

:07:49.:07:51.

contractors and those who are fully self-employed. That there should be

:07:52.:07:55.

additional protections for this group and stronger incentives for

:07:56.:08:03.

firms to treat them early. The best way to achieve better wickets to

:08:04.:08:07.

good management and strong employment relations. That is vital

:08:08.:08:13.

that individuals have realistically attainable ways to strengthen their

:08:14.:08:17.

future work prospects. That there should be a more proactive approach

:08:18.:08:21.

to workplace health and the National Living Wage is a powerful tool to

:08:22.:08:27.

raise the financial a sign of low-paid workers but it needs to be

:08:28.:08:29.

accompanied by sexual strategies -- sectoral strategies.

:08:30.:08:45.

While we might not accept every recommendation in full, I am

:08:46.:08:49.

determined that we consider the report very carefully and we will

:08:50.:08:52.

respond fairly by the end of the year. Matthew Taylor has been clear.

:08:53.:08:59.

The UK labour market is a success, the British way works. But he has

:09:00.:09:03.

also said that there are instances where it is not working fairly for

:09:04.:09:09.

everyone. For example, he highlights where our legislation needs updating

:09:10.:09:12.

or where flexibility seems only to work one way, to the benefit of the

:09:13.:09:18.

employer. We recognise the points made. We accept that as a country we

:09:19.:09:26.

now need to focus as much on the quality of the working experience,

:09:27.:09:29.

especially for those in lower paid roles as on the number of jobs we

:09:30.:09:36.

create, vital though that is. This Government has made a commitment to

:09:37.:09:40.

upholding workers' rights, the Prime Minister has said repeatedly in this

:09:41.:09:44.

House and elsewhere that as we leave the EU, there will be no rollback of

:09:45.:09:50.

employment protections. The Queen's speech also says that by this

:09:51.:09:52.

Government will go further than that and will seek to enhance rights and

:09:53.:09:58.

protections in the modern workplace. Today's publication of the good work

:09:59.:10:02.

review and the public consideration of Matthew's recommendations that

:10:03.:10:07.

will follow will help to inform the development of our industrial

:10:08.:10:10.

strategy this autumn and I commend the statement to the House. Thank

:10:11.:10:18.

you, Mr Speaker. When the Prime Minister set took office last year,

:10:19.:10:21.

she stood on the steps of Downing Street, stating that she was on the

:10:22.:10:27.

side of working people. Now, despite this rhetoric, the Conservatives

:10:28.:10:30.

have been in Government now for seven years and in that time, they

:10:31.:10:33.

have done very little for working people. They have presided over a

:10:34.:10:40.

lost decade as product and productivity group, they have

:10:41.:10:43.

implemented the pernicious trade union act, an ideological attack on

:10:44.:10:48.

the train union movement, curbing their ability to fight for Anne

:10:49.:10:50.

Robinson workers interests. They have inflicted hardship on public

:10:51.:10:56.

sector workers with pay cap which has been confirmed yesterday by the

:10:57.:11:00.

Department for Education for yet another year. They promise workers

:11:01.:11:06.

on boards that road back scared when powerful interests that they were

:11:07.:11:11.

not keen on the idea. They have introduced employment tribunal fees

:11:12.:11:14.

which has made it much harder for workers to enforce their rights. So,

:11:15.:11:20.

today, with the publication of the Taylor review, there was a real

:11:21.:11:23.

opportunity to overhaul the existing employment system in a way that

:11:24.:11:28.

would protect workers in a rapidly changing world of work. But in the

:11:29.:11:32.

words of the general secretary of Unite, the biggest union in the UK,

:11:33.:11:37.

instead of this serious programme the country urgently needs to ensure

:11:38.:11:41.

that once again work pays in this country, we got a depressing sense

:11:42.:11:47.

that insecurity is the inedible new norm. Indeed the minister confirm

:11:48.:11:51.

that she might not even accept all of the proposals in the Taylor

:11:52.:11:56.

report in any event. Now, the report was positive in sentiment across

:11:57.:12:02.

many hours and Mrs many offshoots to plant an exploitation in the

:12:03.:12:05.

workplace. I do not have time to cover the more today but I do have

:12:06.:12:09.

specific concerns that the report may allow the Government to

:12:10.:12:12.

interpreted references to the so-called depending contract in

:12:13.:12:18.

order to row back on recent court victories for workers such as Uber

:12:19.:12:23.

drivers and polymers. Recent case law suggested that work on a

:12:24.:12:27.

platform with the entitled to the minimum wage as long as the aptly

:12:28.:12:33.

reached which Diana and the willing to accept trips. In may insist on

:12:34.:12:39.

payment by piece rate, that an average driver working averagely

:12:40.:12:43.

hard will earn 1.2 times the minimum wage.

:12:44.:12:57.

Will the Minister confirmed the government will not undermine

:12:58.:13:02.

workers' rights and the minimum wage in this way? Indeed, Pimlico

:13:03.:13:11.

plumbers's founder has said the report uses them as an example of

:13:12.:13:16.

the best practice. Accompanied which our judicial system found to be an

:13:17.:13:21.

example of worst practice. The report also does very little to

:13:22.:13:24.

strengthen the ability of workers to enforce the rights they already

:13:25.:13:28.

have. Whilst agreeing with Labour's position on shifting the burden of

:13:29.:13:33.

proof to employers in determining self-employed sectors, there is

:13:34.:13:36.

little else and this needs much more work. There's no movement at all in

:13:37.:13:41.

relation to employment tribunal fees, which act as a barrier to

:13:42.:13:46.

justice for many workers. If the Prime Minister wanted ideas on

:13:47.:13:49.

strengthening workers' rights, she could have come to us. Just four of

:13:50.:13:54.

our manifesto commitment alone will go long way to end the sky which of

:13:55.:13:59.

exploitation in the Gega economy. Giving all workers equal rights from

:14:00.:14:04.

day one, for example. Strengthening the enforcement of those rights by

:14:05.:14:09.

giving up a better resourcing HMRC, not imposing pernicious cuts.

:14:10.:14:13.

Allowing trade union access to every workplace, abolishing tribunal fees

:14:14.:14:20.

and finally finding employers who breach labour market rights and

:14:21.:14:24.

regulations. So, Mr Speaker, I asked the Minister in the spirit of the

:14:25.:14:29.

so-called collaboration had Prime Minister is so desperately seeking,

:14:30.:14:34.

will she commit to date to implement these forcible measures as a start?

:14:35.:14:38.

Or if not, did she accept the Conservative Party is not and never

:14:39.:14:45.

will be on the side of working people? -- for simple measures. I am

:14:46.:14:52.

glad the honourable lady found some positive aspects to the report. To

:14:53.:14:57.

complement Matthew Taylor run. I do appreciate you won't have had time

:14:58.:15:01.

to read it all yet, but I do urge her to do so because there really

:15:02.:15:06.

are many, many recommendations in that report that will be of benefit

:15:07.:15:12.

to workers. And are worthy of the greater consideration that this

:15:13.:15:15.

government will give the recommendations. I won't comment on

:15:16.:15:21.

each of them, because they are Matthew Taylor's suggestions and

:15:22.:15:25.

they will be given due consideration. She does criticise

:15:26.:15:29.

this government's record, and so I would like to remind it is this

:15:30.:15:33.

government that has introduced national living wage, that has

:15:34.:15:40.

decided over the minimum wage being at its highest rate in real terms

:15:41.:15:45.

since it was introduced. And the facts remain that the wage increases

:15:46.:15:51.

we have seen in the last year have been at their highest among the

:15:52.:15:56.

lowest paid banks of the national living wage. We have nearly doubled

:15:57.:16:01.

the budget for enforcement of a national living wage, we have

:16:02.:16:05.

doubled to find the companies who underpay their employers, we have

:16:06.:16:09.

banned the use of exclusivity clause in zero hours contracts. And

:16:10.:16:14.

employment, all the time, the backdrop is at a situation where we

:16:15.:16:21.

have protected the growth in employment. At almost 75%,

:16:22.:16:26.

unemployment is at its highest record level since records began. It

:16:27.:16:36.

is a record of achievement. She criticises us for passing a trade

:16:37.:16:41.

union act, but most reasonable people would not criticise the fact

:16:42.:16:44.

that workers who are members of trade unions should have a proper

:16:45.:16:50.

say when their union decides to take strike action. And that is the

:16:51.:16:54.

purpose primarily of that legislation. It is not all a garden

:16:55.:17:00.

of roses, otherwise the Prime Minister would not have requested

:17:01.:17:05.

Matty Taylor to undertake the report. Flexibility and innovation

:17:06.:17:11.

are vital. The PM said when she announced Matthew Taylor's

:17:12.:17:15.

investigation, she said that as part of what makes our economy strong,

:17:16.:17:20.

but it is essential these virtues are combined with the right support

:17:21.:17:26.

and protections for the worker. But the Matthew Taylor review came to

:17:27.:17:31.

understand that flexibility does work for many people, and it is

:17:32.:17:36.

clear that an agile labour market is good for protecting employment.

:17:37.:17:47.

Would my honourable friend agree that at the heart of boosting wages

:17:48.:17:53.

for lower paid workers is productivity? There are actually

:17:54.:17:56.

some good examples of employers working with the living wage

:17:57.:17:59.

foundation who've managed to reduce the pay of low skilled workers and

:18:00.:18:03.

focusing on productivity, that should be at the heart of this

:18:04.:18:11.

issue. I heartily agree, indeed productivity is essential to our

:18:12.:18:13.

international strategy. We've established a 23 billion fund to

:18:14.:18:20.

promote quality jobs, better skills and the higher paid that he mentions

:18:21.:18:28.

is so important. Can I refer to mow bid disturbing trust my trade union

:18:29.:18:36.

activity over 20 years prior to my election -- refer to my trade union

:18:37.:18:48.

activity. It was interesting neither the Minister or the Prime Minister

:18:49.:18:53.

mentioned or commended the role of the trade unions in securing their

:18:54.:18:56.

rights at work. Does the Minister agree the right to request is

:18:57.:19:01.

different from a fundamental right enshrined in law? If a right to

:19:02.:19:06.

request is refused, what enforcement action will the government take to

:19:07.:19:10.

force employers to do better? Does she accept is no distinction in the

:19:11.:19:14.

report between a flexible workforce and exploiting that workforce? Does

:19:15.:19:19.

the Minister also agree that whilst the Taylor report tries to reside

:19:20.:19:23.

new rides, some of these rights have been secured by trade unions taken

:19:24.:19:28.

employers to court as the Shadow minister agree? Can she tell us what

:19:29.:19:32.

action will be taken to enforce minimum wage payments with turn a

:19:33.:19:37.

thousand workers not being paid that minimum wage? Will they advertise

:19:38.:19:44.

rights of work services? And does the Minister agree it is time for a

:19:45.:19:48.

fair rights of work act which guarantees fundamental rights at

:19:49.:19:54.

work? I thank the honourable gentleman for his critique. The

:19:55.:20:00.

right to request has been useful and valuable when it comes to requesting

:20:01.:20:04.

flexible employment. In any case, it is a recommendation that Matthew is

:20:05.:20:09.

making, but I do feel it is certainly warrant careful

:20:10.:20:14.

consideration. He talked about enforcement, and we are absolutely

:20:15.:20:20.

committed to making sure that workers who are on zero hours

:20:21.:20:25.

contracts or the minimum wage absolutely get paid what they are

:20:26.:20:29.

legally entitled to, that is why we have doubled the resources available

:20:30.:20:34.

to the HMRC in the last two years, to ensure enforcement with those

:20:35.:20:44.

important laws. I welcome the Matt Taylor report today and commend the

:20:45.:20:49.

Minister for her statement. Particularly with regards to

:20:50.:20:52.

tackling nativity and pregnancy discrimination, wish to report says

:20:53.:20:57.

needs more action and has doubled in the last decade. Will the Minister

:20:58.:21:02.

perhaps outline for the House what provisions within this report,

:21:03.:21:04.

particularly address the issues raised by the select committee about

:21:05.:21:11.

workers lack of rights to accessing antenatal care June the working day,

:21:12.:21:16.

which the Minister, in her response, said would be addressed in this

:21:17.:21:21.

report? I commend the honourable lady for the work her select

:21:22.:21:27.

committee, which he chairs, has done to tackle this outrageous issue of

:21:28.:21:33.

discrimination against women who are pregnant. That has no plays in the

:21:34.:21:38.

modern workplace. There are provisions within the Matthew Taylor

:21:39.:21:42.

report, but there is also ongoing work across government to improve

:21:43.:21:48.

the opportunities for women who are pregnant in the workplace to ensure

:21:49.:21:52.

we make history of that discrimination. As somebody who

:21:53.:21:59.

lobbied the Prime Minister Webb reports on the EU economy, might I

:22:00.:22:04.

thank the Minister for her statement today? Could I please from her a

:22:05.:22:10.

little more, whether government's position will be in the trade-off

:22:11.:22:17.

between strapping minimum standards at the vulnerable end of the labour

:22:18.:22:23.

market and trading that for flexibility, that the news reports

:22:24.:22:28.

are right, Matthew Taylor goes for flexibility, rather than always

:22:29.:22:31.

implementing the national minimum wage? Can we have an undertaking

:22:32.:22:35.

from the government they will always abide by the national minimum wage,

:22:36.:22:39.

even if there is a loss for flexibility? I congratulate the

:22:40.:22:47.

honourable gentleman for all the work he did chairing the work and

:22:48.:22:49.

pensions select committee on these matters in the last Parliament. And

:22:50.:22:57.

I can assure him that minimum wage rates are absolutely sacrosanct,

:22:58.:23:02.

there will be no trade-off with regard to ensuring everybody is

:23:03.:23:06.

played at least the minimum wage. And I think if the honourable

:23:07.:23:12.

gentleman reads the report, he will be more encouraged. And I can't

:23:13.:23:16.

quote many of the people who attended the review is evident

:23:17.:23:21.

session told the Taylor review they like the flexibility of working a

:23:22.:23:26.

typical, atypically, and we shouldn't lose theirs. Flexibility

:23:27.:23:29.

must not be a one-way street with individuals absorbing all the risk,

:23:30.:23:35.

and although we are going to consider the recommendations

:23:36.:23:39.

further, I can assure him very much agree with the sentiments behind

:23:40.:23:45.

that remark. Does the Minister welcome the fact the review

:23:46.:23:49.

established that the majority of employers followed good practice and

:23:50.:23:53.

our focus should be on those who do not, to make sure we level the

:23:54.:23:59.

playing field for all employers, all employees and businesses in this

:24:00.:24:06.

country? I agree strongly with my honourable friend. Employers who

:24:07.:24:09.

choose to break the rules, and they are a small minority but excess,

:24:10.:24:14.

they must exist there to be consequences for their actions.

:24:15.:24:17.

There should be a level playing field so that visitors who do the

:24:18.:24:23.

vast majority of which do behave properly, do not find themselves the

:24:24.:24:30.

wrong end of an uneven playing. I declare an interest having done some

:24:31.:24:34.

work during my time out of this House. I welcome the Prime Minister

:24:35.:24:39.

saying there will be no rollback of workers' rights, though let's just

:24:40.:24:42.

say those words are a departure from what I experience as a consider

:24:43.:24:47.

position when I was Liberal Democrat minister in the Coalition. I know

:24:48.:24:53.

the Minister is genuine, it's an important issue. Can just as, as she

:24:54.:24:58.

prepares a government response to this report, will she commit to

:24:59.:25:02.

consulting widely across this House, through debate, free speaking the

:25:03.:25:07.

select committee, to get the right response when the government comes

:25:08.:25:13.

forward? I thank the honourable lady and commend her for her role in that

:25:14.:25:18.

Coalition government. I'm glad to hear that she acknowledges this

:25:19.:25:23.

government has move forward in its appreciation of the difficulties

:25:24.:25:27.

faced by certain workers in the sort of areas Matthew Taylor has been

:25:28.:25:32.

focused upon. I can give her every assurance we will indeed consult

:25:33.:25:36.

widely, not just across industry and where trade unions and members of

:25:37.:25:40.

the public, but very much so across this House. I welcome this report

:25:41.:25:47.

very much, and I wonder if Earth at this any stage, can she give any

:25:48.:25:51.

indication what enhance opportunities may be created to

:25:52.:25:56.

those people who have disabilities, in the world of work or trying to

:25:57.:26:04.

enter the world of work? I thank the honourable gentleman for this

:26:05.:26:07.

important note. The Department for Work and Pensions are undertaking

:26:08.:26:13.

various measures to improve the chances are people with disabilities

:26:14.:26:16.

accessing the workplace, and my department is giving all the

:26:17.:26:24.

supporter can to that enquiry. Matthew Taylor said today he wants

:26:25.:26:29.

employers to pay national insurance for people they have a controlling

:26:30.:26:32.

and supervisory relationship with. Does the government plan to

:26:33.:26:35.

implement that aspect of the Taylor review, and can minister reassure

:26:36.:26:40.

workers that government doesn't plan to U-turn on its U-turn and increase

:26:41.:26:43.

national insurance for the generally self-employed? I can assure that

:26:44.:26:52.

honourable lady that as the first Secretary of State commented

:26:53.:26:57.

Parliament has spoken on the issue of national insurance in respect,

:26:58.:27:05.

and that matter is settled and will not be revisited. I think I share

:27:06.:27:11.

her concern that we look very closely to make sure that people who

:27:12.:27:16.

are generally contracted to provide an ongoing service are given the

:27:17.:27:25.

protections that workers and not falsely labelled self-employed.

:27:26.:27:31.

On a similar point, which he confirmed that actually there is a

:27:32.:27:37.

real risk that having a depending contractors risk fudging the issue

:27:38.:27:41.

of where someone is really employed and self-employed, we should be

:27:42.:27:44.

focusing on getting that line drawn in the right place and making sure

:27:45.:27:49.

that those who engage in depending contractors are paying national

:27:50.:27:54.

insurance so I'm tax rating is not distorting the market? We are going

:27:55.:27:59.

to consult heavily on those points and we will absolutely make sure

:28:00.:28:06.

that hates NTS satisfied on the tax issues but that we are satisfied

:28:07.:28:11.

that employees are getting their rights, if they are employees or

:28:12.:28:16.

workers. With Matthew Taylor is replacing to rename them, depending

:28:17.:28:23.

contractors. The Minister has welcomed this report. Assume the

:28:24.:28:28.

position to accept any of the recommendations in it today and

:28:29.:28:30.

Kenji tells when they will be legislation to implement a least

:28:31.:28:34.

something from their stories are all going to be put into the long grass?

:28:35.:28:42.

As I said in the responses earlier, we will be consulting, looking at

:28:43.:28:45.

every single recommendation and it is not release me to say I'm

:28:46.:28:51.

personally inclined to recommend, excepting which I am not at this

:28:52.:28:55.

very early stage. So I hope you will bear with us if, over the next six

:28:56.:29:00.

months, we will be consented, by the year and, maybe a little bit longer

:29:01.:29:04.

than six months, consulting widely across this House and he will have

:29:05.:29:07.

every opportunity to make his views known. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I have

:29:08.:29:15.

spent 45 years in the gig economy and what I liked about the gig

:29:16.:29:19.

economy is it was very flexible and in order to build a career, I found

:29:20.:29:24.

myself delivering bacon across north London from Smithfield market. They

:29:25.:29:28.

became a removal man. Does my right honourable friend agree with me that

:29:29.:29:35.

it is very welcome but this report supports a flexible labour market

:29:36.:29:39.

and is not in favour of restricting that flexibility where individuals

:29:40.:29:45.

want it. Well, I think that my honourable friend has made a very

:29:46.:29:48.

careful reading of the summary of Matthew Taylor's report because he

:29:49.:29:52.

does understand that balance. He does not want first to land the kind

:29:53.:29:55.

of tax abilities that have helped him in his career and close for

:29:56.:30:00.

people starting out on their careers now. But as I've said, we do to make

:30:01.:30:06.

sure their predictions are in place. -- protections. It is just not my

:30:07.:30:14.

constituent in the gig economy that have insecurity, they are pleased to

:30:15.:30:18.

be working but when they went full-time employment, they see more

:30:19.:30:22.

people in the same organisations getting part-time hours. When will

:30:23.:30:26.

the Government get to grips with this element of the economy and make

:30:27.:30:29.

sure that all those workers get a fair deal and a chance to work full

:30:30.:30:36.

time hours they so need? The whole basis of this report is good work

:30:37.:30:41.

and the aspiration of good work for all and I would include those

:30:42.:30:44.

constituents to which she is referring. But just to reassure her,

:30:45.:30:50.

the survey of two years ago did find that almost 70% of people on zero

:30:51.:30:54.

hour contracts were content with the hours that they were working. That

:30:55.:30:58.

does mean a third do want more hours and that is what we have got to

:30:59.:31:02.

embrace in terms of some of the changes that Matthew Taylor might be

:31:03.:31:07.

recommending in order to help achieve the good work and the hours

:31:08.:31:12.

her constituents want to work. I welcome the publication of this

:31:13.:31:16.

report. Does my honourable friend agree that flexibility in the legal

:31:17.:31:20.

market does benefit both workers and employers equally? -- labour market.

:31:21.:31:27.

My honourable friend has asked me a difficult question in that I do

:31:28.:31:34.

believe that Matthew Taylor's report does bear this out, flexibility does

:31:35.:31:38.

benefit both employers and employees but I'm afraid that the evidence to

:31:39.:31:45.

his inquiry did point out that in too many cases, that flexibility is

:31:46.:31:50.

a one-way street, as I said earlier, and we do need to address the issue

:31:51.:31:58.

as people who are really at risk and far too insecure in employment

:31:59.:32:05.

situation. Thank you. I welcome the Minister's commitment to the

:32:06.:32:10.

Government upholding workers' rights and I wonder whether as part of the

:32:11.:32:15.

Government's response to this report, you look at enabling workers

:32:16.:32:19.

to uphold their own rights and look again at these for employment

:32:20.:32:22.

tribunals which have meant a reduction of 70% in cases by single

:32:23.:32:27.

claimants, such as those working in the gig economy against their

:32:28.:32:32.

employer? I thank the honourable lady for her question. She makes a

:32:33.:32:36.

very important point. It is a matter for the Ministry of Justice. Matthew

:32:37.:32:41.

Taylor has not recommended that we get rid of these for employment

:32:42.:32:44.

tribunals. I think we have to recognise the positive aspect, which

:32:45.:32:51.

has been an upsurge in the amount of employment disputes that have been

:32:52.:32:54.

settled through mediation. But I will continue to like the she

:32:55.:33:02.

raises. Thank you, Mr Speaker. The report does praise and support

:33:03.:33:06.

flexibility within the labour market, where individuals wanted.

:33:07.:33:09.

But does my honourable friend agree with me that this is perhaps

:33:10.:33:13.

especially, but not exclusively, beneficial to students and young

:33:14.:33:19.

people? I do agree with my honourable friend. I think the

:33:20.:33:24.

figures suggest that almost 20% of people on zero hour contracts

:33:25.:33:31.

students and the flexibility does benefit many people who perhaps have

:33:32.:33:34.

parenting or caring responsibilities and do not want to work full-time.

:33:35.:33:40.

So we certainly do not want enough flexibility, but we do want to

:33:41.:33:45.

improve protection, as I have said before. Thank you, Mr Speaker. The

:33:46.:33:54.

gig economy brings an insecure work. The rights will be worth I think is

:33:55.:33:59.

the Government increases the amount it is prepared to put into

:34:00.:34:05.

regulation, so will the Minister tell us this afternoon will she

:34:06.:34:08.

commit alongside implement in the Taylor of to bidding those

:34:09.:34:12.

additional resources in? I very much agree with the gentlemen.

:34:13.:34:17.

Enforcement is crucial. We have double the resources available,

:34:18.:34:23.

minimum wage enforcement, they will continue to go up through this

:34:24.:34:27.

Parliament. In addition, we have strengthened the powers of the gang

:34:28.:34:32.

masters labour abuse of authority and we have recently appointed a new

:34:33.:34:37.

director of the labour market enforcement who is tasked with

:34:38.:34:43.

bringing the work of the three major enforcement bodies together to

:34:44.:34:46.

understand the extent of the abuse and to recommend ways of those

:34:47.:34:51.

enforcement agencies being properly resourced to ingest it. I hope the

:34:52.:34:54.

honourable gentleman will be pleased with the outcome of that in due

:34:55.:34:59.

course. I would like to welcome the publication of Matthew Taylor's

:35:00.:35:03.

report on my honourable friend's statement today. Does she agree with

:35:04.:35:09.

me that it is not absolutely right to ensure workers are treated fairly

:35:10.:35:14.

but it is good for business too as they have more engaged and more

:35:15.:35:19.

productive workforce? I heartily agree with my honourable friend.

:35:20.:35:24.

That is what it is all about. It is about improving work so that we have

:35:25.:35:28.

good work, so that people have the ability to grow in their careers, so

:35:29.:35:32.

that people who are low-paid to start with do not have to be

:35:33.:35:36.

low-paid forever, that they can aspire to a better future that will

:35:37.:35:40.

benefit British productivity and it will, as my honourable friend

:35:41.:35:43.

suggest, improve the competitiveness of British companies. Vital

:35:44.:35:50.

protection for workers is trade union membership and also trade

:35:51.:35:54.

union recognition. Since my time at the TUC over 40 years ago, the

:35:55.:35:58.

mention of trade unions in Britain has halved and we have seen workers'

:35:59.:36:04.

rights and undermined by Tory legislation. When is the legislation

:36:05.:36:09.

going to be reversed? The Government cannot name the people to join trade

:36:10.:36:15.

unions. Trade unions are still a very important force for protecting

:36:16.:36:19.

workers' rights, among those sectors of the economy where they are still

:36:20.:36:21.

dominant and I commend them for their work. If one talks to drivers

:36:22.:36:30.

on YouTube or cleaners using platforms as hassle, they will

:36:31.:36:33.

acknowledge the benefits of flexibility to them. To coin a

:36:34.:36:38.

phrase, would it not be morally acceptable to misread the

:36:39.:36:41.

21st-century labour market and construct a set of rules that force

:36:42.:36:45.

is out of work, rather than allows them to stay in its? My right

:36:46.:36:51.

honourable friend, my honourable friend will be no doubt pleased that

:36:52.:36:55.

Matthew Taylor very much agrees with his thesis. Thank you very much, Mr

:36:56.:37:05.

Speaker. Over 1 million workers are being exploited by companies and

:37:06.:37:08.

bogus self-employment. Since its changes to tax policy that are

:37:09.:37:11.

needed to tackle both and the Government prohibited making any

:37:12.:37:17.

firm regularly chosen to change in tax policy, houses the can we take

:37:18.:37:20.

the Minister's comments to date and when they are going to address the

:37:21.:37:26.

tax anomalies? I can assure the honourable lady that no bar

:37:27.:37:29.

whispered in front of Matthew Taylor. He able to investigate as

:37:30.:37:37.

free and fair as he saw fit. It is really up to the Treasury to assess

:37:38.:37:41.

the tax situation and any potential loss of revenues which of course

:37:42.:37:48.

comes from bogus self-employment. In contrast to the previous question,

:37:49.:37:50.

with my honourable friend join me in recognising one of the key findings

:37:51.:37:55.

of the review, that, thanks to the Government's tax policies, once you

:37:56.:37:59.

take into account tax levels and tax credits, actually average take-home

:38:00.:38:05.

pay for families where you lose one member is in full-time employment is

:38:06.:38:09.

higher in the UK than in any other G-7 country? -- where at least one

:38:10.:38:17.

member. I commend my honourable friend for bringing that to the

:38:18.:38:23.

attention of the House. I am pleased to hear the Minister so promoting

:38:24.:38:27.

this Marxist revolution that we are now living through as the means of

:38:28.:38:32.

production are increasingly in the hands of the workers. But further to

:38:33.:38:36.

what does she not agree with me that the answer to some of the challenges

:38:37.:38:40.

we are hearing is not just better regulations but also to help people

:38:41.:38:44.

organise and if so, will she meet with myself, Kimi to trade union,

:38:45.:38:48.

the Co-op movement to discuss our work helping the self-employed to

:38:49.:38:56.

organise and unionise? I am aware of the independent union of

:38:57.:38:58.

self-employed workers and they have been a force and may have

:38:59.:39:05.

contributed to this enquiry. -- they have contributed. I would be all too

:39:06.:39:09.

pleased to meet with the honourable lady and her community organisers as

:39:10.:39:15.

part of my consultation. Thank you. There's a marked difference between

:39:16.:39:19.

someone who says that the business, take some risks and wrist

:39:20.:39:23.

self-employment compared to refute as good as employees who force

:39:24.:39:29.

workers to go self-employed. In responding to this excellent report,

:39:30.:39:31.

what will my honourable friend do to make sure that the people who are

:39:32.:39:35.

genuinely self-employed continue to receive those benefits, but the

:39:36.:39:42.

unscrupulous employers do not? My honourable friend makes a very good

:39:43.:39:46.

point. We do not want to stand in the way of the incentives that

:39:47.:39:51.

promote people who are genuinely taking a risk and starting a

:39:52.:39:55.

business, they are the majority and we do not want to do that thing that

:39:56.:40:00.

upsets that balance. But at the same time, as my honourable friend will

:40:01.:40:04.

realise, we do need to end the scourge of fake self-employment. The

:40:05.:40:12.

report disappointed does not go far enough on the issue of zero hour

:40:13.:40:18.

contracts. The Labour Welsh government and devolved areas on

:40:19.:40:21.

seven occasions. Is not the case that workers in are being left out

:40:22.:40:30.

by the Tory and Labour Party? Individual, many individuals, as

:40:31.:40:34.

I've said, want to work in a flexible way that is by the zero

:40:35.:40:39.

hour contracts and almost 70% of them are happy with our allies and,

:40:40.:40:43.

as I said, the third who are not, we must take steps to promote the value

:40:44.:40:47.

of good work as an opportunity for them, whether they are in Wales or

:40:48.:40:52.

in the rest of the United Kingdom. She has told us that 20% of students

:40:53.:41:00.

-- 20% of students, 70% are satisfied, can you complete the

:41:01.:41:04.

hat-trick I telling us what the mean weekly incomes actually is on the

:41:05.:41:11.

zero hour 's contract? I will have to write a number of friends with

:41:12.:41:18.

the answer to that one. -- I will have to write to my honourable

:41:19.:41:23.

friend. Matthew Taylor has written we must equip our children and young

:41:24.:41:27.

people to enter the labour market successfully but Government

:41:28.:41:30.

employees and individuals have to make sure that everyone is in the

:41:31.:41:34.

best place to provide what might be working life spanning 60 years or

:41:35.:41:37.

more. How will the Government square this with the decision made under

:41:38.:41:42.

the previous Prime Minister to stop compulsory work experience in

:41:43.:41:45.

schools, which in the first year led to a drop in 60,000 work express

:41:46.:41:49.

placements in schools across the country and would she look again

:41:50.:41:55.

this? That is a matter for the Department for Education. I think

:41:56.:42:00.

that I do agree that work experience is very important to young people

:42:01.:42:04.

and I'm sure that the Secretary of State will look favourably on that.

:42:05.:42:08.

As far as we are concerned in my department, we are looking to boost

:42:09.:42:10.

the opportunities for lifelong learning, to engender a culture

:42:11.:42:16.

where people can progress in their careers.

:42:17.:42:20.

Before I became a member of Parliament, I was self-employed. I

:42:21.:42:29.

was a self-employed ambassador to the Prime Minister, and I also

:42:30.:42:32.

worked with Matthew Taylor on this report. I found him extremely

:42:33.:42:37.

nonpartisan, a gentleman. What I would like to urge my honourable

:42:38.:42:41.

friend to do, living at the measures for the self-employed, especially

:42:42.:42:45.

with their maternity and paternity benefits in the offering, please

:42:46.:42:51.

accept them. I will certainly take on boards my view based on so many

:42:52.:42:57.

years, and I thank him by his conclusion to this report.

:42:58.:43:06.

Flexibility in the labour market on one side of the coin, but for people

:43:07.:43:12.

in employment on the other side. If we are to see a situation, at the

:43:13.:43:18.

criticism of the Unite union, the insecurities to be the new normal,

:43:19.:43:25.

can the Minister reverse a decision that the Coalition took to extend

:43:26.:43:31.

from one year to two year the threshold? I don't accept the

:43:32.:43:38.

premise in security is the new norm. I think one of the purposes of this

:43:39.:43:43.

report was to look closely at the extent of insecurity and produce

:43:44.:43:49.

some measures, or some recommendations, that might mitigate

:43:50.:43:53.

that where it is not desired by the workers. I will look at the matter

:43:54.:43:58.

he raise, but that is a question that was not actually addressed in

:43:59.:43:59.

this report. Speaking at the launch this morning,

:44:00.:44:13.

Mr Taylor suggested traditional workers like window cleaners can use

:44:14.:44:17.

an application to collect money and apply to HMRC. Why is it that Buber,

:44:18.:44:29.

the most cutting app do not collect the national insurance number of

:44:30.:44:40.

drivers --. I thought the app was one of the most interesting ideas,

:44:41.:44:47.

there are limitations to the current apps available, but in no way was

:44:48.:44:52.

Matthew Taylor advocating they were mandatory, but they should be

:44:53.:44:54.

available in a more sophisticated form than they are now. As a

:44:55.:45:02.

government looks towards the economy, Matthew Taylor's remarks

:45:03.:45:06.

that the welfare system is a mess, and no one outside a government

:45:07.:45:13.

makes it fairer. Kurdish and presenters, we wards for work,

:45:14.:45:22.

increased freedom -- cadets represent rewards for work. It has

:45:23.:45:27.

not been addressed by this report, and I urge him to address his

:45:28.:45:31.

questions to the DWP ministerial team. Matthew Taylor urges the

:45:32.:45:39.

government to look at reducing these, can it urge the Minister to

:45:40.:45:44.

go further, in relation to discrimination, get on with

:45:45.:45:47.

abolishing them and extend the period during which a case can be

:45:48.:45:52.

brought before tribunal is, because a period of pregnancy is a busy

:45:53.:45:59.

time, when you are unlikely to be thinking about a court case. I do

:46:00.:46:03.

agree with her remarks, and I hope she will input her views during the

:46:04.:46:12.

consultation process. Twice the Minister has referred to the fact

:46:13.:46:16.

flexibility seems to work only one way to benefit the employer. Does

:46:17.:46:20.

that flexibility include her government 's failure to prosecute a

:46:21.:46:23.

single employer in Wales last year for flouting the minimum wage rules?

:46:24.:46:31.

I was not saying flexibility was always a one-way street in favour of

:46:32.:46:38.

the employer, I said that was in exceptional cases a real problem

:46:39.:46:44.

that needs addressing. But it is not necessarily the norm. In response to

:46:45.:46:49.

the other matters that she has raised, I urge her to contribute her

:46:50.:46:52.

views as we go over the consultation. When the Minister is

:46:53.:46:59.

considering how to respond to the review, will she talked to her

:47:00.:47:06.

colleagues about the useful time social action review, which is

:47:07.:47:12.

considering the question of long-time volunteering? I realise

:47:13.:47:16.

they are different, but there's quite a considerable overlap, and

:47:17.:47:20.

the question about safeguards and protections is the same in some

:47:21.:47:25.

cases, it seems sensible to wrap the two together. He has some good

:47:26.:47:29.

points to make about volunteering and about the framework that govern

:47:30.:47:32.

said, and I hope he will make these during our consultation. -- that

:47:33.:47:42.

governs it. On workforce protection be extended, or that include

:47:43.:47:47.

secondary contract does, so when one person in a team of three or four as

:47:48.:47:50.

a main contractor, will the depending contractor extended to

:47:51.:47:56.

other people in the team? This might provide a minor blip of people who

:47:57.:48:00.

are self-employed to be independent contractors, but there will be some

:48:01.:48:03.

who see this as an opportunity to downgrade people with employment

:48:04.:48:08.

protection to dependent contractors against their will. The honourable

:48:09.:48:12.

gentleman raises a number of issues, there's no attention to downgrade

:48:13.:48:17.

anybody's rights. We want to be in a position to see copyable's right,

:48:18.:48:22.

certainly not downgrade them. I am sure he will be putting his details,

:48:23.:48:26.

observations in our consultation. This government continues to justify

:48:27.:48:36.

the existence of zero hours contracts on the basis of

:48:37.:48:39.

flexibility, but this could be largely addressed in flexible

:48:40.:48:46.

working can be properly expanded and given a framework for what it means.

:48:47.:48:52.

Will the government use this opportunity to properly expand

:48:53.:48:54.

flexible working and explain what it actually means? I can't accept the

:48:55.:49:01.

premise behind the honourable gentleman's question. We are not

:49:02.:49:08.

seeking to end zero hours contracts because too many people want them.

:49:09.:49:13.

They want the flexibility associated with them, but we are seeking to

:49:14.:49:21.

root out abuse where it exists. The Taylor review recommends the

:49:22.:49:24.

government makes it easier for people in flexible arrangements to

:49:25.:49:30.

take holiday entitlement. Now, the Minister has struggled to explain

:49:31.:49:34.

the government's powers in this area before. Can she tell us what powers

:49:35.:49:39.

to enforce holiday pay currently exist, and with some are fast

:49:40.:49:44.

approaching, will she act on the tenor recommendation swiftly? I

:49:45.:49:51.

reassure her Matthew Taylor has recommended we take the issue of

:49:52.:49:55.

holiday pay seriously and make sure it applies to all workers who are

:49:56.:50:01.

entitled to it. And the Treasury will be taking forward those

:50:02.:50:08.

suggestions. The Minister is writes, the transfer of risk that heart of

:50:09.:50:15.

this problem. Drivers in my constituency are classified as

:50:16.:50:17.

self-employed be treated as employees were about right. Is there

:50:18.:50:23.

anything in the Taylor report which would end the practice of finding

:50:24.:50:27.

the drivers every time there's an accident? If the honourable lady

:50:28.:50:33.

would like to write to me with details of this, it's the first I

:50:34.:50:40.

have heard of this particular, well, practice, yes. It certainly sounds

:50:41.:50:48.

wrong, but I would be delighted to consider it further within the

:50:49.:50:55.

powers that currently exist. On page 11 of the report, Mr Taylor says, we

:50:56.:51:00.

have to examine why with employment levels at record highs, a number of

:51:01.:51:04.

people living in poverty are in work. The government's practice has

:51:05.:51:11.

been that when asked about poverty, the government have responded with

:51:12.:51:14.

statistics about employment and unemployment. Will the government

:51:15.:51:19.

finally accept such a thing as in work poverty only exist, it is a

:51:20.:51:23.

brutal fact of life for millions of people on these islands? We have

:51:24.:51:27.

always been absolutely committed to reducing poverty where ever it is

:51:28.:51:31.

exists, and the national living wage has gone a long way to provide

:51:32.:51:36.

workers with a framework beneath which they need not seek, sink into

:51:37.:51:41.

poverty. I would urge the honourable gentleman to consider that further.

:51:42.:51:49.

As someone who's done a view gigs in his time, can I urge the Minister

:51:50.:51:53.

you to reject this think tank jargon of the phrase depending contractor?

:51:54.:51:58.

Workers were, workers are workers. Depending contractor is the world

:51:59.:52:03.

unite, you have nothing to lose but your change, it's not going to

:52:04.:52:07.

change anything. For those new members not aware of the musical

:52:08.:52:10.

distinction of the honourable gentleman he was pose a question, I

:52:11.:52:14.

can inform him, he's a very member of the Parliamentary rock bands, and

:52:15.:52:20.

colleagues haven't heard of the band, they haven't fully lived, and

:52:21.:52:24.

I hope they will hear the band in due course, preferably in Speaker 's

:52:25.:52:27.

house where it is played before, and will be played again. He mentions

:52:28.:52:34.

that the two independent contractor. This was a recommendation designed

:52:35.:52:38.

to improve clarity and to improve the chances of workers getting the

:52:39.:52:43.

rights to which they are entitled. It is just that, just a

:52:44.:52:47.

recommendation and he is free to lobby against our acceptance of it

:52:48.:52:49.

during the course of our consultation. I welcome the

:52:50.:52:56.

acknowledgements in the report that employment Tribunal fees are a

:52:57.:52:58.

barrier to justice, so whilst it so positive that the report recommends

:52:59.:53:04.

them to establish employment stasis, what is there to make sure quality

:53:05.:53:12.

representation in the tribunal? It'd also the case once that status has

:53:13.:53:16.

been that the will still have to beat paid? One of the recommendation

:53:17.:53:23.

is up before an employee takes a case before a tribunal, there is

:53:24.:53:28.

firm advice as to what the employee's statuses in reality. That

:53:29.:53:34.

word, I think, and a huge amount of uncertainty and unnecessary expense.

:53:35.:53:38.

We will consider that as well as all the other recommendations in this

:53:39.:53:42.

excellent report, which I do commend to the House, I did find much of it

:53:43.:53:46.

inspiring and I do hope we can all work together to improve the quality

:53:47.:53:50.

of work in this country, as well as the number of jobs. A point of

:53:51.:54:00.

order. Mr Speaker, would it be in order for a minister to attend the

:54:01.:54:04.

House and give a statement as to why it is there is no one authority with

:54:05.:54:09.

responsibility for the safety of rivers and canals? Last night, my

:54:10.:54:16.

12-year-old constituent, Elwyn Jenkins, died come he drowns at

:54:17.:54:21.

Beeston Weir. It appears he went into the River Trent to assist

:54:22.:54:25.

another youngster who got into difficulty in the water. Mr Speaker,

:54:26.:54:30.

it looks like this was an act of great courage and great bravery from

:54:31.:54:34.

a remarkable young man, and I'm sure the whole house will join me in

:54:35.:54:38.

sending our heartfelt condolences to his family, his friends and all the

:54:39.:54:42.

other pupils at Chilwell school. Summer is here, the schools are now

:54:43.:54:50.

breaking of the summer holidays. And yet rivers, canals, quarries, ponds,

:54:51.:54:55.

lakes all dangerous places potentially, especially for children

:54:56.:55:00.

and youngsters. But there's no one authority that has responsibility

:55:01.:55:03.

for safety. I think the Minister should come along and explain how we

:55:04.:55:07.

can make sure that all those places are safe for all of us, especially

:55:08.:55:12.

young people. I'm grateful to the right honourable lady for her point

:55:13.:55:17.

of order and for her courtesy in giving me advance notice of

:55:18.:55:23.

intention to rated. She has paid warm and eloquent tribute to young

:55:24.:55:28.

Elwyn Jenkins, to whom she rightly says, and I'm sure she speaks for

:55:29.:55:34.

all of us, we wish to send to all his friends and family our deepest

:55:35.:55:38.

condolences, and we want to remember the very remarkable courage that he

:55:39.:55:44.

showed. I am not aware of any intention on the part of the

:55:45.:55:47.

Minister to come to the House to make a statement on the matter, but

:55:48.:55:50.

the right honourable lady asked whether it would be in order for a

:55:51.:55:53.

minister to do so. It certainly would. We still have several sitting

:55:54.:55:59.

days. And I think of a minister were to come to the House to make a

:56:00.:56:04.

statement on that matter, to explain the delineation of functions or

:56:05.:56:07.

allocation of responsibility and to answer questions on the matter, that

:56:08.:56:12.

would be well received by the House. And, if they say, it would be well

:56:13.:56:17.

received by the family of young Owen Jenkins. I understand the Prime

:56:18.:56:26.

Minister has announced that is to be a judge led public enquiry into the

:56:27.:56:31.

contaminated blood scandal. Wouldn't it have been better if that

:56:32.:56:35.

announcement had been made just once in this House to honourable members?

:56:36.:56:42.

The short answer is, it is better if the key announcements of policy all

:56:43.:56:49.

other government intends are communicated first of the House,

:56:50.:56:53.

when the houses in session. I am not aware because I been attending to my

:56:54.:56:57.

duties in the chair of that announcement. If that is so, it may

:56:58.:57:04.

very well be it will be warmly welcomed, but the honourable

:57:05.:57:06.

gentleman and asked me a specific question to which I have given him a

:57:07.:57:11.

specific answer. Yesterday, when the honourable lady, the member of the

:57:12.:57:20.

Kingston upon Hull North, sought leave to secure an emergency debate

:57:21.:57:28.

on a specific and important matter, namely her sense of the need for a

:57:29.:57:34.

full public enquiry into the contaminated blood scandal, there

:57:35.:57:39.

have been no such announcement. I judge that it was indeed a proper

:57:40.:57:44.

matter, to be debated under the terms of standing order 24, and

:57:45.:57:48.

notwithstanding any announcement outside of the House, an indication

:57:49.:57:55.

of Parliamentary opinion on the subject remains in feel extremely

:57:56.:57:58.

germane and arguably just as urgent. I agreed yesterday but the health

:57:59.:58:10.

gave its approval to the honourable lady to pursue this matter and I

:58:11.:58:13.

felt and I still feel that it warranted and it warrants up to

:58:14.:58:17.

three hours of debate today. So I'm grateful to the honourable gentleman

:58:18.:58:23.

but it certainly does not persuade us from a proper and conferences

:58:24.:58:28.

focus on this matter now. We proceed to the emergency debate and I call

:58:29.:58:37.

first Diana Johnson. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I beg to move that this

:58:38.:58:42.

House is considered the need for an independent public enquiry into the

:58:43.:58:46.

contaminated blood scandal. Can I first start by thanking you, Mr

:58:47.:58:49.

Speaker, to allow this emergency debate? This is the first time that

:58:50.:58:53.

has been emergency debate on economic contaminated blood scandal

:58:54.:58:59.

and it arises after criminal actions produced by the Right Honourable

:59:00.:59:03.

Andy Burnham and a joint letter calling for a Hillsborough style

:59:04.:59:10.

inquiry? After the announcement from Downing Street this lunchtime, it

:59:11.:59:14.

may become an even more popular route to get the Government to

:59:15.:59:20.

listen and act in the future. Like the Government announcement that

:59:21.:59:25.

there is to be a full enquiry into this scandal, I want to start by

:59:26.:59:28.

acknowledging all of those people who've been involved in getting us

:59:29.:59:31.

to this point. I want to start with my own constituent Glenn Wilkinson.

:59:32.:59:38.

For his persistence and determination, when he came to see

:59:39.:59:44.

me in 2010 to tell me his story, I think he has really been the person

:59:45.:59:49.

who I have always kept at the centre of whatever I have attempted to do

:59:50.:59:55.

on this issue. I also want to thank the many, many individuals and

:59:56.:59:58.

campaign groups who have fought for years to get to this point. Manor

:59:59.:00:06.

house, tainted blood, contaminated blood campaign. I want to thank the

:00:07.:00:10.

chief executive Liz Carroll and Jefferson Courtney the public

:00:11.:00:16.

affairs officer. There are over 2400 individuals who tragically lost

:00:17.:00:21.

their lives. They are not here to see this announcement but their

:00:22.:00:24.

voices than through their family members who have never given up

:00:25.:00:28.

fighting for them. They also want to say something about journalists

:00:29.:00:32.

because I think this campaign that has run so many years has, at times,

:00:33.:00:40.

without the great benefit of brilliant investigative journalist

:00:41.:00:41.

including Caroline Wheeler of the Sunday Times he was formally a

:00:42.:00:46.

correspondent on the holed Daily Mail. We have been many researchers

:00:47.:00:54.

and journalists who did into disaster a few months ago. And the

:00:55.:00:59.

Daily Mail, not a favourite of yours, Mr Speaker, they ran a very

:01:00.:01:02.

good story on the front of their paper last week. I will give way in

:01:03.:01:07.

one moment. I want to continue with this point around thanking people. I

:01:08.:01:13.

want to particularly thank the average 11 parliamentarians who are

:01:14.:01:17.

members of the eight BGG tried haemophiliac contaminated blood. I

:01:18.:01:24.

want to thank my co-chair, the previous chair Jason McCartney who

:01:25.:01:29.

is no longer a member of this House, Margaret Ritchie and Mark Durkan who

:01:30.:01:32.

are no longer members of this House that were very vocal in the campaign

:01:33.:01:37.

said theirs. And, of course, I have to say a really big thank you to the

:01:38.:01:41.

Right Honourable Andy Burnham who in the battery speech made up clearly

:01:42.:01:48.

why this is unfinished business and we need to have a public enquiry. I

:01:49.:01:53.

want to thank the late Right Honourable Paul Goggins who was a

:01:54.:01:57.

huge inspiration in this cause. Thank you. My honourable friend is

:01:58.:02:04.

completely right to thank all of these people but there is one person

:02:05.:02:07.

missing from that list and that is herself. I think the whole house

:02:08.:02:12.

should thank the honourable lady for the tireless work she has done over

:02:13.:02:15.

the last seven years on this. An utterly brilliant campaign. This

:02:16.:02:19.

shows how Parliament really should work. Her constituent has raised an

:02:20.:02:23.

issue with her, she has campaigned on it nonstop, she has not been

:02:24.:02:26.

fobbed off, she has proceeded and she has brought as, I think she has

:02:27.:02:31.

played a huge role in bringing us to this point today. Last night, I had

:02:32.:02:35.

a load of e-mails from constituents who have been affected by this

:02:36.:02:39.

scandal and I want to tell her how grateful they are to her for the

:02:40.:02:44.

work she has done. I am very grateful to my honourable friend for

:02:45.:02:48.

those comments, but I think it was a combined effort of so many people

:02:49.:02:51.

over so many years. I will give way to my honourable friend. I would

:02:52.:02:56.

like to pay my own tribute to my honourable friend, she has been

:02:57.:02:59.

absolutely hugged in her determination of not giving up and I

:03:00.:03:04.

have two in my own mind who came to see me in a similar circumstance, if

:03:05.:03:10.

he had not come to see me as I know many other constituents have on both

:03:11.:03:14.

sides of the House, I would not been aware of this scandal, let alone

:03:15.:03:16.

strained the need to deal with it. Will she drove me in paying tribute

:03:17.:03:22.

to national and regional groups have done so much to stand for those

:03:23.:03:25.

affected in particular locations like Wales and is up some of the

:03:26.:03:30.

difficulties in that this was a legacy issue from UK Department of

:03:31.:03:34.

Health and the competition is now a devolved health services across the

:03:35.:03:36.

catering at some of its questions that we will need to address in

:03:37.:03:42.

terms of this enquiry. I think my honourable friend make that point

:03:43.:03:45.

very well. I want to use the shoe today to make a few comments about

:03:46.:03:51.

the way we handle disasters and to say something about how I think the

:03:52.:03:55.

best way forward in terms of a Hillsborough style inquiry should be

:03:56.:03:59.

established by the Government. Yes, I will give way. I am very grateful

:04:00.:04:04.

and I add my congratulations to the honourable lady for her brilliant

:04:05.:04:09.

leadership on this. Does she agree with me that was this incredibly

:04:10.:04:13.

welcome these, there is an urgency because those people who continue to

:04:14.:04:18.

suffer need help now and there's a danger that this process could go on

:04:19.:04:21.

for years and leave them still waiting for support? I think the

:04:22.:04:28.

writer aboard gentleman makes it an important point and I think the

:04:29.:04:32.

timetabling of any inquiry Berenice Abbott needs to be set up clearly

:04:33.:04:36.

and I hope the e-mail server will be able to help us Visser contribution.

:04:37.:04:40.

I thank my honourable friend forgiving way on that point. I want

:04:41.:04:46.

to add my congratulations to her and Andy Burnham. This has been going on

:04:47.:04:51.

for a long time. Has she had any indication from number ten Downing

:04:52.:04:55.

St what form this enquiry is going to take? Because some of my

:04:56.:04:58.

constituents have got similar problems to her constituents. Can

:04:59.:05:02.

she give us any clarification on that? I have only seen, like every

:05:03.:05:06.

other member of the House, what is out in the media which is there's

:05:07.:05:11.

going to be a consultation, I understand, what form the inquiry

:05:12.:05:14.

will take. But I'm sure the Minister will be able to help us in his

:05:15.:05:19.

contribution later on. I will give way and then I will move on. I am

:05:20.:05:25.

grateful to the honourable lady then moving on and I would like to join

:05:26.:05:28.

into triggers to hand the all-party group of which I've been a member. I

:05:29.:05:31.

think it is an example of how Parliament can work well. There is a

:05:32.:05:36.

family who've said as a family we have suffered years of misery

:05:37.:05:40.

because of this scandal and does she not agree with me that is right to

:05:41.:05:44.

consult the victims and their families about the form the inquiry?

:05:45.:05:49.

Absolutely. The honourable gentlemen makes a good point there as well and

:05:50.:05:53.

I will come onto that is or what I want to say. I want to make some

:05:54.:05:57.

general comments. I do not need to remind the House of the damage that

:05:58.:06:01.

public disasters close all those affected. We know from the health

:06:02.:06:07.

but tragedy in 1989 and more recently the appalling fire Grenfell

:06:08.:06:11.

Tower. Every public disasters this kind is different. The courses are

:06:12.:06:14.

different, the victim suffer in different ways and the measures

:06:15.:06:21.

necessary to support them differs also. Then there is one thing that I

:06:22.:06:25.

think every victim has an every right to and that is the right to

:06:26.:06:29.

answers. They deserve to be told what went wrong, why it went wrong

:06:30.:06:33.

and who is responsible for what happened. The story of the injustice

:06:34.:06:37.

they have suffered also needs to be set up and told to the wider public.

:06:38.:06:43.

Their voices need to be heard. Apologies, compensation and other

:06:44.:06:47.

forms of support are essential. But if their right to answers is not

:06:48.:06:52.

also satisfied, I feel they will be denied true and meaningful justice.

:06:53.:06:59.

I will give way. A powerful case thank her for all the work she has

:07:00.:07:03.

done. She said at the beginning, many victims have died. It is now

:07:04.:07:08.

their families that are still here but they are still grieving and they

:07:09.:07:13.

need answers as much as the victims. My honourable friend is absolutely

:07:14.:07:18.

right on that. I just want to go back to the fact that this tragedy,

:07:19.:07:22.

as my honourable friend has said, has taken the lives of over 2400

:07:23.:07:26.

people with haemophiliac. Infected mainly from blood factor

:07:27.:07:30.

concentrates. Many others, without bleeding disorders, who've been

:07:31.:07:35.

affected through bludgeon and Susan is another means have also lost

:07:36.:07:39.

their lives. -- blood transfusions and other means. They are left to

:07:40.:07:46.

live a combination of HIV, hepatitis B and a range of other viruses. Mike

:07:47.:07:52.

constituent, Glenn Wilkinson, is one such individual. He has haemophiliac

:07:53.:07:59.

and he was infected with hepatitis C during a routine tooth operation.

:08:00.:08:02.

Glenn is one of thousands of people who have fallen victim to the worst

:08:03.:08:06.

treatment disaster in the history of our NHS on one of the worst

:08:07.:08:10.

peacetime disasters that has ever taken place in this country. Indeed

:08:11.:08:16.

when I was looking through the 15 also non-terrorist related public

:08:17.:08:22.

disasters ranging from the brat from split the stadium fire to the

:08:23.:08:29.

Clapham junction crash, and of course Hillsborough, each of these

:08:30.:08:32.

were tragic events and they do not wish to detract from the magnitude

:08:33.:08:35.

of those events, but the House should note that an orderly once I

:08:36.:08:41.

looking at, all of those devices led to a public enquiry. An Arab members

:08:42.:08:46.

and their effective constituents are entitled to ask why has the same not

:08:47.:08:50.

happened with contaminated blood. Had more than 2400 people died over

:08:51.:08:56.

the course of one day, or one year, it would have been inconceivable for

:08:57.:08:59.

any Government to refuse calls for a public enquiry. Yet the devastation

:09:00.:09:04.

caused by the contaminated blood scandal has been spread not over

:09:05.:09:09.

days or years but over several decades. We must also bear in mind

:09:10.:09:13.

the provided a fact that the scandal has had on one community, those with

:09:14.:09:18.

bleeding disorders. Many of whom who were provided with contaminated mud

:09:19.:09:24.

factor concentrates sourced from profit-making American firms.

:09:25.:09:27.

Virtually everyone who has haemophiliac the time he has been

:09:28.:09:32.

infected. Honourable member 's will appreciate that when friends and

:09:33.:09:35.

close the communities I hit by collective tragedy, its impact can

:09:36.:09:41.

be devastating. Consider, for example, the school for disabled

:09:42.:09:44.

children, special school with a large number of pupils with

:09:45.:09:49.

haemophiliac, 72 of its peoples have died because of this scandal. Many

:09:50.:09:55.

were forced to be silent to suffering, I prefer the of the

:09:56.:09:58.

stigma of having HIV or hepatitis C or other viruses or because they

:09:59.:10:02.

were not even aware that they had these conditions. It is important as

:10:03.:10:09.

this distinction is, it does not excuse the fact that successive

:10:10.:10:12.

governments of all colours have sidestepped this issue for too long.

:10:13.:10:18.

Internationally, we know in France, investigations will be imprisonment

:10:19.:10:22.

as the former head of their blood transfusion service and his deputy

:10:23.:10:25.

and a former health minister was found guilty of manslaughter. In

:10:26.:10:30.

Japan, three executives at companies were imprisoned and official was

:10:31.:10:34.

convicted on negligence charges and in the United States, the private

:10:35.:10:38.

companies involved in this tragedy paid out millions in out-of-court

:10:39.:10:43.

settlements across the world. But nothing of this kind of happened in

:10:44.:10:47.

the UK. I will finish this point. In 1991, in response to the threat of

:10:48.:10:53.

court cases, the Government set up an excretion payments scheme, no

:10:54.:10:59.

implication of liability, the word compensation and waivers had to be

:11:00.:11:04.

signed before they could obtain small sums of money. I thank the

:11:05.:11:10.

honourable lady for giving way. Mike constituent who does not wish to be

:11:11.:11:15.

name was to include the remit of the Skipton fund because she feels and

:11:16.:11:18.

many others do the remit was wrongly drawn up and she and others have

:11:19.:11:22.

been denied the dust as they should have had. Yes, the honourable lady

:11:23.:11:26.

makes an important point and I'm going to mention that. I will give

:11:27.:11:32.

way. Congratulate her on the work she has done on this issue, and I

:11:33.:11:35.

welcome the factors there is good to be a public inquiry eventually and

:11:36.:11:39.

at last. Does my honourable friend agree with me that this public

:11:40.:11:42.

inquiry should address the issues of why the UK was the last country in

:11:43.:11:47.

the Western world to introduce a test for hepatitis C? Wife vital

:11:48.:11:52.

documents were destroyed by the Department of Health and why the UK

:11:53.:11:55.

took 13 years to get self-sufficiency in blood products

:11:56.:11:58.

when it took Ireland over five years? Again, very important

:11:59.:12:03.

questions for the inquiry to deal with. I want turnout today's

:12:04.:12:09.

announcement and the joint Westminster leader's letter of the

:12:10.:12:13.

7th of July. Which I think provided a blueprint for how such an enquiry

:12:14.:12:20.

should be conducted. First of all, as with Hillsborough, commitment,

:12:21.:12:23.

there should be a commitment to secure full public disclosure of

:12:24.:12:26.

details relating to this tragedy through a process managed by the

:12:27.:12:30.

effective community. There should be a mechanism to ensure all public

:12:31.:12:34.

bodies involved in the scandal are compelled to give oral and written

:12:35.:12:38.

evidence to it, you should see to be given that it will cover the role of

:12:39.:12:43.

American firms in providing blood factor concentrated people with

:12:44.:12:47.

haemophiliac, an investigation or so, not just about the run-up to the

:12:48.:12:52.

scandal, but its actual aftermath. And finally, it has to like these

:12:53.:12:56.

allegations of criminal conduct and I hope, as I said a little early on,

:12:57.:13:01.

the Minister will be able to help us with the timetable for this inquiry

:13:02.:13:03.

as those affected have I do pay tribute to the

:13:04.:13:18.

Parliamentary group, and NMI concert to rent is grateful to her and other

:13:19.:13:26.

MPs -- and I know my constituent is grateful. On health records, my

:13:27.:13:32.

constituent, who has access to a husband's health records. Does she

:13:33.:13:37.

agree with me that those affected through the scandal showed get their

:13:38.:13:44.

family health records? The honourable gentleman makes an

:13:45.:13:52.

important point, they with it. I pay tribute to the Member for the

:13:53.:13:59.

outstanding leadership here shown on this important issue. My constituent

:14:00.:14:03.

has been affected by this. There's a great deal been said about the

:14:04.:14:09.

responsible government, the cover-up, but also the moral way the

:14:10.:14:17.

victim has been treated. We get many living in destitution and poverty as

:14:18.:14:20.

a result of the government penny-pinching, when actually that

:14:21.:14:26.

should be part of the review. He is correct, we need to look carefully

:14:27.:14:30.

at the support being provided in the past and what should be provided in

:14:31.:14:37.

the future. I will give way, two more times. I'd like to add my

:14:38.:14:47.

thanks, Hayden who died, and other members of the family. Would she

:14:48.:14:52.

agree that we should learn from the lessons of the thalidomide enquiry

:14:53.:14:56.

and compensation fund in this enquiry to make sure we don't repeat

:14:57.:15:02.

the mistakes made with thalidomide? That is an excellent point that

:15:03.:15:05.

needs to be considered. I will give away one last time. I'd like to pay

:15:06.:15:12.

tribute on behalf of my constituents, James Jones. In the

:15:13.:15:21.

Welsh Assembly, there was confirmation that the payments

:15:22.:15:28.

continue to be made, that no liability is accepted. And again, it

:15:29.:15:36.

confirms the payment of 10,000 to a partner, that continues again. That

:15:37.:15:43.

goes to the heart of it, there's never been any finding of liability.

:15:44.:15:47.

That has resulted in very low payments being made and it kind of

:15:48.:15:52.

support bases, rather than a compensatory basis. I just want to

:15:53.:16:00.

Ritter eight -- reiterates, that I strongly believe, and I think the

:16:01.:16:06.

majority believe, that a Hillsborough style enquiry is the

:16:07.:16:11.

best way forward in this case. Putting those affected at the heart

:16:12.:16:17.

of whatever is created and set up. So, for instance, giving people the

:16:18.:16:21.

opportunity to have an input into the terms of reference, being able

:16:22.:16:24.

to look at people who might be considered to be a chairperson of

:16:25.:16:31.

the inquiry, or any panel members. This has to have the support and

:16:32.:16:36.

confidence of all those affected, that's why looking at what happened

:16:37.:16:41.

with a Hillsborough style enquiry, the Hillsborough enquiry, that

:16:42.:16:45.

worked effectively. In Hillsborough, it was known as families first. And

:16:46.:16:50.

I hope that might be able to carry on with this enquiry as to set up.

:16:51.:16:56.

So, I also think all those affected need to be treated with the utmost

:16:57.:17:01.

respect and reverence and fully consulted. And any information that

:17:02.:17:05.

becomes available should first of all go to those people affected. I

:17:06.:17:13.

want to just talk about the Fall questions I have around, but I think

:17:14.:17:18.

the enquiring need to look at -- Fall. In Andy Burnham's speech, when

:17:19.:17:23.

he set out the case for why they needed to be an inquiry, and he was

:17:24.:17:27.

one of two former Health Secretary 's comedy of being Lord Irwin, who

:17:28.:17:34.

had raised serious concerns, and we know there was the panorama

:17:35.:17:38.

programme and the Daily Mail article. From what Andy Burnham said

:17:39.:17:44.

and from all the developments in the last few months, there are serious

:17:45.:17:50.

questions which I still believe need to be addressed by public enquiry.

:17:51.:17:55.

First of all, why did the government not act soon to protect the blood

:17:56.:17:59.

supplies once the risks became known? Why were we so reliant on

:18:00.:18:04.

American commercial products the haemophilia patient? Because UK was

:18:05.:18:09.

not self-sufficient in blood supplies, profit-making American

:18:10.:18:13.

companies played a considerable role in supplying factor concentrates the

:18:14.:18:17.

haemophilia patients. This blood was sourced from much riskier patients,

:18:18.:18:21.

including prison inmates, who were much more likely to have infections

:18:22.:18:25.

and had a financial incentive to be less than honest about their risks

:18:26.:18:28.

of infection. The dangers American products were being discussed, not

:18:29.:18:37.

from the 1990s, nor the 1980s, but from 1970. As the Daily Mail

:18:38.:18:41.

reported last week, files now suggested at least as early as 1980,

:18:42.:18:46.

officials had even put an estimate on about haemophilia patients being

:18:47.:18:49.

infected from these products, with what we now know to be hepatitis C.

:18:50.:18:54.

They put the figure at 50 a year, yet it was not until night they took

:18:55.:18:59.

any action to address it. If the whole of the UK had been

:19:00.:19:03.

self-sufficient in blood supplies, fewer haemophilia patients would

:19:04.:19:08.

have been affected. We know this because Scotland had higher levels

:19:09.:19:12.

of self-sufficiency than England. As the Panorama programme outline,

:19:13.:19:19.

haemophilia patients were twice as likely to be infected in HIV than in

:19:20.:19:24.

Scotland. Even in the mid-1980s, when the danger of hepatitis C and a

:19:25.:19:28.

Chevy became known, it appears we could have acted sooner to remove

:19:29.:19:33.

products, and when United States started screening their products

:19:34.:19:39.

from March 1983, we carried on using non-screened American supplies that

:19:40.:19:45.

we had purchased before March. How can that possibly be justified? So

:19:46.:19:50.

my second question for the inquiry, why were patients kept in the dark

:19:51.:19:54.

and not told of the risks once they became known? There are many aspects

:19:55.:19:58.

of this controversy which I know other honourable members may wish to

:19:59.:20:02.

touch on. But I want to draw the attention to the development 1983 at

:20:03.:20:06.

the midst of the AIDS epidemic where there were still uncertainty about

:20:07.:20:09.

whether it was a blood-borne disease. In November 1983, the

:20:10.:20:14.

health minister and still the right honourable member Rushcliffe told

:20:15.:20:18.

Parliament that there was no conclusive evidence AIDS is

:20:19.:20:22.

transmitted by blood products. Yet earlier that same year his

:20:23.:20:25.

department was repairing internal documents which said the opposite.

:20:26.:20:32.

In August 1983 the same departments was telling practising homosexuals

:20:33.:20:36.

and drug users not to give blood because of the risk of transmitting

:20:37.:20:41.

AIDS. In the summer of 83, the department was preparing a blood

:20:42.:20:45.

donor leaflet which said AIDS was almost certainly transmitted by

:20:46.:20:49.

blood and blood products. In July in Italy to free the UK haemophilia

:20:50.:20:55.

centre doctors organisation said young children with haemophilia

:20:56.:20:58.

should receive a less risky form blood products because of the

:20:59.:21:03.

dangers of AIDS. And between March and May 1983, the Scottish National

:21:04.:21:07.

Party transfusion service prepared a leaflet for blood donors. It

:21:08.:21:11.

included haemophiliacs and recipients are blood transfusions on

:21:12.:21:16.

this are people who get AIDS and asked the same individuals not to

:21:17.:21:22.

give blood. The Penrose enquiry, the Scottish Penrose enquiry,

:21:23.:21:26.

acknowledged in adopting its position in November 1983, the then

:21:27.:21:30.

government relied heavily on a highly nuanced use of language. My

:21:31.:21:36.

third point is, why were some people tested for viruses without their

:21:37.:21:39.

knowledge, and only told of the results of many years later? There

:21:40.:21:43.

are many cases of this happening and I will make reference to one,

:21:44.:21:49.

Jonathan Evans, he was first tested positive HIV in 1984, yet he wasn't

:21:50.:21:53.

all that this until seven months later in the mid-1985 period. This

:21:54.:21:57.

poses a huge health risk to his wide family and the history of this

:21:58.:22:01.

scandal is full of cases of spouses infecting each other. Tragically,

:22:02.:22:07.

the virus took his life and his son Jason was just Fall years old when

:22:08.:22:12.

his father died, he is still campaigning for justice -- four

:22:13.:22:16.

years old. He's been instrumental in generating coverage in the Daily

:22:17.:22:21.

Mail article. Fourthly, there are allegations of a criminal cover-up

:22:22.:22:24.

on an industrial scale from the highest ranks of government

:22:25.:22:28.

downwards. At every stage of the scandal, there are concerns

:22:29.:22:31.

officials knew more than they were letting on, almost everyone affected

:22:32.:22:35.

by the scandal has encountered issues with most medical records.

:22:36.:22:39.

Others have recovered files only to find any mention of a connection

:22:40.:22:43.

with contaminated blood being removed. Some individuals today are

:22:44.:22:48.

unable to access financial support via the Skipton fund because of what

:22:49.:22:59.

has happened to their medical records. These cases of lost records

:23:00.:23:01.

also extend to the highest level of government. Jeremy Archer enquiry,

:23:02.:23:03.

Lord Owen requested his departmental papers from the time he was health

:23:04.:23:06.

minister 1970s. He told they'd been destroyed under the ten-year rule.

:23:07.:23:09.

Even though there is no evidence of such a rule existing. Finally, when

:23:10.:23:15.

people were forced to sign waivers in 1991, as I mentioned earlier,

:23:16.:23:19.

they were asked to commit to no further legal action for hepatitis C

:23:20.:23:24.

litigation as well as HIV. These individuals did not yet know they

:23:25.:23:28.

had hepatitis C, as the disease had a long incubation period. The

:23:29.:23:34.

inescapable conclusion seems to be departmental officials knew more

:23:35.:23:37.

than they were willing to disclose. In conclusion, earlier this week,

:23:38.:23:42.

the Prime Minister indicated her intention to work more with other

:23:43.:23:45.

party leaders, to act in the best interests of the country. And she

:23:46.:23:51.

has shown a laudable commitment to this with respect for other public

:23:52.:23:56.

disasters, including the child abuse enquiry and the Hillsborough

:23:57.:23:59.

disaster. Alongside the many thousands of people who have for

:24:00.:24:04.

justice for so long, I want to personally thank the showing the

:24:05.:24:08.

same commitment with respect to the contaminated blood tragedy. There

:24:09.:24:11.

are still questions to answered on the detail of that enquiry, in

:24:12.:24:17.

Rockingham this announcement we must be mindful of those who will never

:24:18.:24:21.

see its result -- in a welcoming. The people who are tragically lost

:24:22.:24:25.

their lives, many never knew the true scale of the scandal happening

:24:26.:24:31.

to them. Those affected and their families will be waiting anxiously

:24:32.:24:35.

to go the Prime Minister's announcement will give them the

:24:36.:24:37.

justice they have so long be denied. But today, the Prime Minister has

:24:38.:24:44.

earned a place in history as someone who has listened to an issue which

:24:45.:24:48.

predecessors had ignored and put party politics aside in the name of

:24:49.:24:54.

giving the people the basic right to answers, and for that she has my

:24:55.:25:00.

gratitude. The question is, this House has considered the need for an

:25:01.:25:05.

independent public enquiry into the contaminated blood scandal. Just

:25:06.:25:09.

before I call the first speaker from the backbench, I should say that at

:25:10.:25:12.

this stage, I've not impose any formal time-limit, but a number of

:25:13.:25:18.

people wish to contribute and therefore I know the honourable

:25:19.:25:22.

gentleman the Stratford-upon-Avon will exercise a magnificent

:25:23.:25:26.

self-denying Ordinance in the length of his oration. Do we really have to

:25:27.:25:33.

have it? I know what I'm doing, I'm capable of handling it. If it is

:25:34.:25:38.

about the order of speeches. No, no, I did see to be advised by the right

:25:39.:25:42.

honourable gentleman. Let me just say, insofar as this was unclear, it

:25:43.:25:47.

was as a result of a failure of communication between the two

:25:48.:25:50.

frontbenchers. These matters should be sorted out between the government

:25:51.:25:55.

on the opposition, not for people yapping at each other across the

:25:56.:25:59.

floor of the House, or very close to the Speaker's chair. The Speaker is

:26:00.:26:03.

happy to give effect to what the two sides of the House and want within

:26:04.:26:09.

reason, that was not made easy on this occasion. I'm to address the

:26:10.:26:13.

matter by consensus, I know the right honourable member means well

:26:14.:26:18.

and is offer is appreciated, but I don't need to take him up on it. Go

:26:19.:26:27.

girl can I join colleagues to pay tribute to the member of Kingston

:26:28.:26:31.

upon Hull North and the work she has done reading the all-party group, as

:26:32.:26:37.

well as the Member for Worthing West, who has been a joint chairman

:26:38.:26:44.

of the all-party group? I have been working with the victims in my

:26:45.:26:52.

constituency since 2011. Super the last six years. I consider myself a

:26:53.:26:59.

new Boye when it comes to this particular tragedy and scandal. The

:27:00.:27:06.

Member for North East Bedfordshire has spent many, many hours

:27:07.:27:12.

tirelessly working on behalf of his consistency, and may I pay tribute

:27:13.:27:17.

to him? I know he'd want to be in this debate but he couldn't because

:27:18.:27:18.

of government business. I really want to just thank the

:27:19.:27:30.

Prime Minister for listening to the victims of this extraordinary

:27:31.:27:37.

tragedy. And colleagues in this house, and actually really calling

:27:38.:27:46.

this enquiry. I want to acknowledge the Minister's response to

:27:47.:27:53.

colleagues that the government is in listening mode in terms of the terms

:27:54.:27:57.

of reference for this enquiry and that they will put the victims at

:27:58.:28:04.

the heart of this enquiry. I think that that is what the victims will

:28:05.:28:08.

expect, and will be grateful for. Many victims, certainly my

:28:09.:28:16.

constituents, initially did not want an enquiry, they wanted a settlement

:28:17.:28:23.

actually take place rather than an enquiry but as new evidence was

:28:24.:28:29.

uncovered and again I pay tribute to Andy Burnham in some of the work

:28:30.:28:34.

that he has done on this. And the journalist for the

:28:35.:28:42.

Kingston-upon-Hull cited. My constituent certainly changed her

:28:43.:28:44.

view and is very much supporting and looking forward to engaging with

:28:45.:28:54.

this enquiry. I just want to raise an important issue that the enquiry

:28:55.:29:00.

looks at. Subsequent treatment of victims, and holds the bodies to

:29:01.:29:04.

account. Now, I have on behalf of Claire Walton been attempting to,

:29:05.:29:10.

attempting to communicate with the McFarlane trust, one of the five

:29:11.:29:17.

charities set up to help, and I say help the victims because in my

:29:18.:29:21.

experience I have to say to the Minister the McFarlane trust has

:29:22.:29:24.

been anything but help my constituent. They have behaved in an

:29:25.:29:31.

utterly despicable way. They refused to take meetings with my

:29:32.:29:36.

constituent, or with me, I have requested meetings for the past six

:29:37.:29:39.

years, and they always come back with a reason why they cannot have a

:29:40.:29:42.

meeting. They have bullied by constituent, the trustees of the

:29:43.:29:50.

McFarlane trust have bullied her, and they have fed her scraps, those

:29:51.:29:56.

are her words. Whilst at the same time having had charged over her

:29:57.:29:59.

property for all of this time and making a profit on that charge they

:30:00.:30:05.

refused to discuss the future of the charge on her property. She wants to

:30:06.:30:09.

know because the scheme administrator will soon be changed

:30:10.:30:13.

to the NHS business advisory service, by constituent wants to

:30:14.:30:16.

know what will happen when that change takes place and I hope the

:30:17.:30:19.

government can take some of this away and respond to it more fully at

:30:20.:30:28.

the appropriate time. The MacFarlane trust say they cannot give any more

:30:29.:30:32.

information until they have clarity from the Department of Health about

:30:33.:30:35.

transition arrangements, and she really does want that clarity. But I

:30:36.:30:42.

hope that the Minister will as his predecessor had intimated, that the

:30:43.:30:47.

McFarlane trust is not for this world for much longer. And I have as

:30:48.:30:53.

I said struggled to even be able to speak to them on the phone. My other

:30:54.:31:06.

constituent, Adrian Milton feels particularly concerned about the

:31:07.:31:10.

discretionary papers. Many victims actually rely on the discretionary

:31:11.:31:16.

payments, and I again hope that as the minister begins to look at the

:31:17.:31:25.

evidence, before him, he will look very closely at making sure that

:31:26.:31:29.

where discretionary payments have actually become something much more

:31:30.:31:33.

permanent, that they are recognised as that and not treated as

:31:34.:31:38.

discretionary because the promise we made to our constituents under the

:31:39.:31:42.

previous Prime Minister, and I had to commend him in wanting to resolve

:31:43.:31:48.

this is that no victim will financially suffer under any

:31:49.:31:54.

compensation. Any structure we put in place. I will take Mr Speaker's

:31:55.:31:59.

very eloquent words on board and end there. Only just to say that this is

:32:00.:32:05.

not a party political issue, many successive governments have failed

:32:06.:32:09.

the victims and I hope now we can actually come together and have this

:32:10.:32:14.

with a deadline, a clear timeline... I will give way. I congratulate my

:32:15.:32:19.

honourable friend for the leadership she has given on this issue. On the

:32:20.:32:23.

coming together I think this is important it is a UK level, previous

:32:24.:32:29.

to devolution. I think it was important that the Minister works

:32:30.:32:34.

with the devolved administration so that any compensation is at a UK

:32:35.:32:40.

level, so there are no second-class citizens in the UK. And I think that

:32:41.:32:45.

point is taken on board by the victim certainly who looked at the

:32:46.:32:50.

Scottish settlement certainly in my case, with Adrian Melson. I am sure

:32:51.:32:53.

the government is listening to the honourable friend's view on this.

:32:54.:32:58.

But let us come together, and put a very clear timeline on when the

:32:59.:33:05.

victims can adversely get justice but also compensation. I am grateful

:33:06.:33:09.

to him. For more opposition members are minded to grumble about without

:33:10.:33:14.

the Minister hasn't come in and that he is necessarily next I will just

:33:15.:33:17.

point out that I was in receipt of her presentations from the

:33:18.:33:20.

opposition front bench on this matter. Some communication between

:33:21.:33:27.

the front and back bench would be advantageous to the conduct of

:33:28.:33:29.

proceedings. Before I call the Shadow Minister for the public

:33:30.:33:36.

health, can I did the -- gently implore her to speak for no more

:33:37.:33:42.

than ten minutes and preferably for fewer. There are plenty who wish to

:33:43.:33:45.

contribute after the honourable lady will stop the honourable gentleman

:33:46.:33:51.

for Ludlow will helpfully set at the government position and we will then

:33:52.:33:54.

open up to a wider debate and I would promise complete distraction

:33:55.:33:57.

because I think that is without precedent in the house, but I will

:33:58.:34:01.

try and ensure that there are as many happy members as possible. As

:34:02.:34:09.

Sharon Hodgson. Thank you for your guidance, Mr Speaker, on this

:34:10.:34:15.

matter. First and foremost first thanks go to the outstanding member

:34:16.:34:18.

of my friend for a whole north who has soaked valiantly campaigned on

:34:19.:34:23.

this issue for years now and without her and be delegated resolved by her

:34:24.:34:27.

and all those that she cited to have been involved in this campaign, we

:34:28.:34:31.

would not be where we are now. Thanks must also go to the former

:34:32.:34:36.

member for league Andy Burnham and, at the end of last parliament I had

:34:37.:34:43.

the honour of being present at going to the police with the evidence he

:34:44.:34:51.

has if the government cannot seek justice for those neglected. For too

:34:52.:34:55.

long the contaminated blood community has been simply failed by

:34:56.:34:59.

the government. Ignored by those who have led the demands of the affected

:35:00.:35:03.

fall under four years which has lacked this community without

:35:04.:35:09.

justice. It is very welcome with the news in the last hour and a half or

:35:10.:35:16.

so that this may have finally some resolution soon, I am very grateful

:35:17.:35:22.

for him to allow me to speak first so that answer questions and what

:35:23.:35:30.

this is an unusual format and that I have no prior knowledge that that

:35:31.:35:33.

format was going to be changed and I hope other honourable members who

:35:34.:35:38.

are also going to questions in the debates to label also get a chance

:35:39.:35:42.

for some response from the ministers over and I don't know where fear he

:35:43.:35:46.

will get to bite at the cherry or whether it will have the BB convened

:35:47.:35:52.

to get other answers. I would also add that this emergency debate is

:35:53.:35:57.

very timely and allows us the house to have its voice heard bully which

:35:58.:36:00.

is white, after the decades of neglect this community has space. At

:36:01.:36:06.

any point prior to 1230 when it was announced in the News the Minister

:36:07.:36:09.

could have come forward and made a statement which would have saved my

:36:10.:36:13.

honourable friend calling for the emergency debate yesterday. It does

:36:14.:36:19.

tend to feel that the order of thing has been forced, and it is sad that

:36:20.:36:23.

it has to be forced in this way. We are where we are. They on our

:36:24.:36:28.

benches, Labour are resolutely in favour of a Hillsborough style

:36:29.:36:37.

enquiry. It was in our manifesto and we pushed for it, and it is this

:36:38.:36:41.

style of enquiry which will get to the heart of the problems that began

:36:42.:36:47.

in the 1980s and hold those blamed for the scandal to account before

:36:48.:36:52.

too late. It is not just our backbenchers but all those of the

:36:53.:36:56.

other parties represented in this, especially on this side of the

:36:57.:36:59.

house, who have made a commitment to stand up for those people seeking

:37:00.:37:03.

justice. As was so clearly documented in the joint letter from

:37:04.:37:07.

the leaders of every single opposition party here in this house,

:37:08.:37:11.

and also the DUP, I am pleased to say, published on Sunday. In the

:37:12.:37:16.

debate on this issue last November secured by my honourable friend Bob

:37:17.:37:19.

Ivanov, we debated a whole host of issues, including compensation for

:37:20.:37:27.

the terrible events that have occurred but today we are here to

:37:28.:37:30.

debate the fights for justice, we should have happened a lot sooner.

:37:31.:37:36.

In my contribution I want to impress two key points, firstly that

:37:37.:37:39.

categorically the previous two enquiries have been insufficient in

:37:40.:37:44.

seeking justice. And this is the reason why a Hillsborough style

:37:45.:37:47.

enquiry Busby actioned. Secondly, the evidence presented so far is

:37:48.:37:54.

clear that if we are to have true reconciliation of the murky covering

:37:55.:38:00.

up on this scandal then the strongest of daylight must be shown

:38:01.:38:05.

on all of this, leaving no stone unturned. The two previous enquiry

:38:06.:38:10.

the archer enquiry and the Penrose enquiry 2015 in Scotland did not go

:38:11.:38:14.

far enough in the eyes of the affected community in getting the

:38:15.:38:18.

truth and justice they deserve. Firstly the arch enquiry was not a

:38:19.:38:23.

government backed one, and failed to seek Department of Health witnesses

:38:24.:38:28.

give evidence. The Penrose enquiry dude again but go far enough in

:38:29.:38:32.

seeking truth, and was unable to compel witnesses from outside of

:38:33.:38:35.

Scotland when at the time of the scandal most if not all of the

:38:36.:38:40.

positions were made in Whitehall. So this failure to compel witnesses

:38:41.:38:44.

from outside of Scotland failed to seek the justice and answers that

:38:45.:38:47.

people from right across the UK deserved. On my second point, there

:38:48.:38:53.

are many allegations around this scandal. Ranging from Department of

:38:54.:38:57.

Health officials destroying evidence as part of a cover-up to victims

:38:58.:39:02.

medical details being tamper with to hide the cause of their infections.

:39:03.:39:07.

I will give way. There are two particular issues that the

:39:08.:39:10.

constituents of mine have said that the enquiry but consider. One told

:39:11.:39:15.

me that he was infected with Hepatitis C and exposed to the HIV

:39:16.:39:21.

virus and was not informed until years afterwards by the NHS, and

:39:22.:39:24.

wants to be ensure that the enquiry will reveal why the truth was

:39:25.:39:29.

hidden. The second wants to know about this issue of doctors and

:39:30.:39:32.

scientists being paid by the drug companies and the precise nature of

:39:33.:39:35.

those deals and he thinks that those had to be really properly and

:39:36.:39:39.

rigorously exposed by this enquiry. So that we can get to the bottom of

:39:40.:39:45.

whatever vested interest existed during the scandal. I thank my noble

:39:46.:39:48.

friend for the intervention and the evidence is happy well documented

:39:49.:39:54.

about which he speaks, especially by the former member for lead, and the

:39:55.:40:00.

honourable member for whole north. Those brave enough to come forward

:40:01.:40:03.

who have lived with these conditions at the sharp end of this heinous

:40:04.:40:07.

negligence reported in the Daily Mail last week drove just important

:40:08.:40:19.

how it is to set up the Hillsborough style enquiry. Would she agree that

:40:20.:40:25.

the self-sufficiency and blood products is an unauthorised report

:40:26.:40:28.

perpetuating inaccuracies and outright lies as per my constituent

:40:29.:40:35.

letter to me? This is all what will have to be looked into, all of this

:40:36.:40:39.

evidence needs to be looked into, and recent days my office has

:40:40.:40:43.

received contact from individuals from my constituency affected by

:40:44.:40:46.

this scandal with intricate details that must be addressed, and it is

:40:47.:40:50.

important that those questions no matter how small they may seem are

:40:51.:40:56.

entered, as these are issues which have inextricably affected that

:40:57.:40:59.

person's whole life. It is issues like these that must be addressed,

:41:00.:41:04.

most importantly so that those who have lived with the ramifications of

:41:05.:41:07.

this serious negligence can finally have the justice they deserve. Now,

:41:08.:41:13.

these are two of the reasons do get to the bottom of the allegations of

:41:14.:41:16.

evidence presented. And having a full and frank enquiry, that brings

:41:17.:41:21.

justice to the many people affected. This is why we must have this

:41:22.:41:26.

enquiry. It is a joint letter by the opposition leader said over the

:41:27.:41:30.

weekend, if the panel was to be convened then it must disclose any

:41:31.:41:34.

and all documents related to the scandal which involve the victims at

:41:35.:41:40.

every stage. It must compel all parties involved to participate with

:41:41.:41:44.

the disclose a process, and not hinder justice and a further. Along

:41:45.:41:48.

with investigating the events leading up to the individual's

:41:49.:41:53.

infections, but also the aftermath, including allegations of medical

:41:54.:41:56.

details being tampered with, whether people were unknowingly tested for

:41:57.:42:01.

viruses without their knowledge, and if enough was done to identify those

:42:02.:42:04.

at risk of the infections. There must also be an investigation part

:42:05.:42:11.

of this enquiry into the role of profit-making American firms

:42:12.:42:12.

supplying the blood factor concentrates that people -- to

:42:13.:42:19.

people with haemophilia. Whilst none of this will bring back loved ones

:42:20.:42:23.

who have died who have been part of this Campbell Gunn or change the

:42:24.:42:27.

circumstances of those living with the conditions inflicted upon them

:42:28.:42:30.

today, there is still something we can do, and that is to hold the

:42:31.:42:34.

enquiry, it is the very least we can do. The thousands of people affected

:42:35.:42:39.

must be supported, and we must stand beside them in seeking justice as is

:42:40.:42:44.

our duty as an elected representatives of the public. I

:42:45.:42:48.

want to conclude with this final remarks, Mr Speaker. None here have

:42:49.:42:51.

a magic wand. I know our constituents all think we do, and we

:42:52.:42:56.

can't turn back time and stop this scandal from happening. Sadly, this

:42:57.:43:00.

power does not exist. But the power that does exist and at the behest of

:43:01.:43:05.

the minister before us to day is that a facilitating the justice for

:43:06.:43:09.

those who live with the aftermath of this scandal. Here today we can send

:43:10.:43:14.

a message, allowed an strong message to those who campaign on this issue

:43:15.:43:19.

day and day out. That Parliament has listened to and is on their side. We

:43:20.:43:24.

in this house have heard them, we in this house are there with them and

:43:25.:43:28.

we in this house will do all we can for them in their quest for justice.

:43:29.:43:33.

We cannot let them down. We can help facilitate the truth once and for

:43:34.:43:37.

all. Parliament is this thing to these individuals who have spent

:43:38.:43:40.

decades fighting, is against the system, to get the truth they seek

:43:41.:43:44.

and the government must listen to Parliament. Parliament is saying

:43:45.:43:48.

fixed this, provide those thousands of people who never asked for this

:43:49.:43:52.

to happen to them with the justice they use so rightly deserve. We

:43:53.:43:53.

cannot fail them any longer. Thank you, Mr Speaker. And thank you

:43:54.:44:09.

for making it clear in the sequence in which we are speaking today in

:44:10.:44:14.

this very important debate. I would like to start my contribution by

:44:15.:44:17.

offering my personal apology to all those affected by the tragedy of

:44:18.:44:24.

infected NHS blood products. This has had the terrible impact on so

:44:25.:44:30.

many individuals and families. It has, quite rightly, been the subject

:44:31.:44:35.

of many debates in this chamber. It has been prompted by the proper

:44:36.:44:40.

concern of members on both sides of the house over many years. There

:44:41.:44:44.

have been two previous enquiries on this issue. The Archer report in

:44:45.:44:49.

2009 and the Scottish Government funded Penrose enquiry in 2015.

:44:50.:44:59.

There have been several calls for a fool, independent enquiry over the

:45:00.:45:07.

years. In addition to these reports, we have attempted to bring greater

:45:08.:45:10.

transparency to the events of the team. Many documents regarding to

:45:11.:45:19.

like 60 from 19721995 have been published and are available on the

:45:20.:45:24.

National Archives website. These documents provide a comprehensive

:45:25.:45:27.

look at the events in the decisions made. Many of these were covered in

:45:28.:45:36.

the Penrose enquiry. But I recognise that for those affected, these steps

:45:37.:45:40.

do not go far enough to provide the answers they want to get to the

:45:41.:45:44.

truth of what happened. In light of these concerns, and of reports of

:45:45.:45:52.

new evidence and allegations of potential criminality, we think it

:45:53.:45:56.

is important to understand the extent of what is cleaned and the

:45:57.:46:00.

wider issues which arise. I will make some prick progress to get it

:46:01.:46:09.

to the nub of this statement. -- quick. The government will look to

:46:10.:46:21.

hold an enquiry into how many people will affected by infected blood

:46:22.:46:30.

products. I am very grateful for the news he has just confirmed. Will he

:46:31.:46:38.

ensure the process is followed and that it facilitates the ability to

:46:39.:46:47.

bring charges so that the full effect of the law could be brought

:46:48.:46:55.

against anyone who could face charges? I will carry on and detail

:46:56.:47:00.

the full extent of how the enquiry would proceed. There have been calls

:47:01.:47:09.

for an enquiry similar to the enquiry looked at into the

:47:10.:47:15.

Hillsborough disaster. This will work with families and close

:47:16.:47:22.

personal engagement with an independent advisers. There have

:47:23.:47:25.

also been told that only statutory enquiry led by a senior judge by the

:47:26.:47:31.

enquiries act 2005 will provide the answers that people want. It would

:47:32.:47:35.

have the power to compel witnesses and written evidence, one of the

:47:36.:47:43.

apparent shortcomings of the previous reports. The government can

:47:44.:47:47.

see minutes in both approaches to ensure that whatever is established

:47:48.:47:50.

in the interests of those affected, we will engage with the affected

:47:51.:47:57.

groups aren't affected parties, including the all Parliamentary

:47:58.:48:00.

group before taking a final decision on the tape of enquiry. I am

:48:01.:48:09.

grateful to my honourable friend. Could he tell the house whether the

:48:10.:48:13.

terms of the enquiry will allow recommendations to be made with

:48:14.:48:17.

regard to compensation for those affected? I will make a little bit

:48:18.:48:22.

of progress and endeavour to cancel that during my remarks. They right

:48:23.:48:29.

honourable friend the Secretary of State and ministers at the

:48:30.:48:31.

Department of Health will be meeting with those affected than the

:48:32.:48:36.

families to discuss the issues and for us to understand their

:48:37.:48:41.

preferences directly with regard to the stale, scope and duration of the

:48:42.:48:48.

enquiry. I just wonder what can he give some time estimate for all

:48:49.:48:53.

these meetings taking place? My experience of the Department of

:48:54.:48:58.

Health on this issue is that deadlines are not met and things

:48:59.:49:02.

have to be dragged onto the floor of the house to get ministers to

:49:03.:49:06.

respond. As they face a timetable as to when you decision will be made? I

:49:07.:49:12.

am sure the honourable ladle who has taken such an active lead and

:49:13.:49:17.

encouraging enquiries will want to make sure we get this rate. We will

:49:18.:49:22.

take the time necessary to consult with colleagues with interested

:49:23.:49:26.

groups and our intent would be to be able to come back to this house as

:49:27.:49:31.

soon as practicable and I would anticipate in the autumn. He has

:49:32.:49:43.

mentioned the Department of Health. In Wales, under the devolved

:49:44.:49:48.

administration, for consultation as he undertaken with regard to

:49:49.:49:58.

contacting the Welsh Assembly? There is a legitimate interest from all

:49:59.:50:00.

constituent nations within the United Kingdom and as many of these

:50:01.:50:05.

incidents happened prior to devil tuition, we do intend to consult

:50:06.:50:13.

with devolved governments. Would he agree the enquiry would have to

:50:14.:50:19.

yield answers to the victims of the scandal and their families? There

:50:20.:50:27.

will be a great interest to the conclusion of this to ensure that

:50:28.:50:31.

the circumstances which led to the scandal can never be repeated again.

:50:32.:50:38.

I completely agree. I will make a little more progress. Regardless of

:50:39.:50:49.

the stale of the enquiry, it is our intention that it will cover the

:50:50.:50:52.

whole of the United Kingdom and we will therefore be in direct contact

:50:53.:50:59.

with counterparts in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland to seek the

:51:00.:51:03.

views before determining those aspects of the enquiry. I apologise

:51:04.:51:15.

to the hose. The Minister has indicated that the consultation will

:51:16.:51:22.

be around the United Kingdom. There is no corresponding Minister of

:51:23.:51:31.

health in Northern Ireland. That is disgraceful. How will the Minister

:51:32.:51:36.

is with Northern Ireland in the absence of the Assembly? We will be

:51:37.:51:43.

looking to the Northern Ireland Office to facilitate discussions

:51:44.:51:46.

with officials and representatives in Northern Ireland. On this point

:51:47.:51:55.

may Honourable friend made, is this a United Kingdom weight enquiry and

:51:56.:51:58.

that the consultation will be across the United Kingdom but that the

:51:59.:52:09.

enquiry itself will be niche in May, so the constituents like my own will

:52:10.:52:15.

have the quality to this? The scope of the enquiry will be determined as

:52:16.:52:19.

part of the discussions which as I indicated we will have in the coming

:52:20.:52:25.

weeks and months. Our intent is that the devolved administrations and

:52:26.:52:32.

residence within that will have free access to participate in the enquiry

:52:33.:52:37.

regardless of where they live or really one affected. The government

:52:38.:52:41.

intends to update the house once these discussions are completed. I

:52:42.:52:44.

would encourage colleagues with the specific interest to engage

:52:45.:52:50.

themselves in discussions through the all-party group that may exist.

:52:51.:52:58.

In the meantime, if anyone in this house side has any evidence of

:52:59.:53:03.

criminality they should take their evidence to the police as soon as

:53:04.:53:09.

possible. If anyone has any other evidence that they want the enquiry

:53:10.:53:14.

to consider, I would ask that the submitted to the enquiry once it has

:53:15.:53:17.

been established. The government will be writing to all those in

:53:18.:53:21.

receipt of payments from the current schemes to make sure that the all

:53:22.:53:27.

know about today's announcement. And to inform them of the next step. I

:53:28.:53:35.

thank the Minister for giving way. I welcome the comments so far. Woody

:53:36.:53:41.

confirmed that it would not do anything to endanger clinical trials

:53:42.:53:47.

and see that Inman with information must make sure it is made available

:53:48.:53:53.

to the police? I honourable friend will reckon it from the recent

:53:54.:53:58.

Hillsborough enquiry that it gave RISE to a certain information made

:53:59.:54:03.

available to the police which led to certain charges being made. We would

:54:04.:54:11.

envisage that any enquiry is established with have the ability to

:54:12.:54:16.

do the same thing if that is appropriate. I must make a little

:54:17.:54:22.

bit of progress. Mr Speaker has encouraged me to make ten minutes so

:54:23.:54:26.

that others can make their contribution and I have already

:54:27.:54:29.

exceeded that. I would inform the house that implementing the forms to

:54:30.:54:37.

be affected blood support schemes remains a priority for the

:54:38.:54:43.

government. That is why within the spending review period until 2021,

:54:44.:54:49.

up to ?125 million of additional funding has been added to the budget

:54:50.:54:54.

for the support scheme. It is more than doubles the annual spend. The

:54:55.:55:02.

second consultation on the scheme for which closed on April 17

:55:03.:55:07.

received 250 responses. The consultation contained the portals

:55:08.:55:11.

for a special category make mechanism which would allow those

:55:12.:55:16.

with stage one hepatitis C for the larger annual payment and that with

:55:17.:55:22.

greatly increased the number of people eligible for that payment.

:55:23.:55:28.

The results and consultation of that will be published in June course. --

:55:29.:55:45.

due. . I want to press this point about the liability of financial

:55:46.:55:51.

liabilities arising from the enquiry and the impact of revolution. Can he

:55:52.:56:01.

sure is that people, regardless of whether you'll have no will will

:56:02.:56:10.

receive equal treatment, with regard to financial liability? I have just

:56:11.:56:13.

talked about the financial scheme with in England. It will be work for

:56:14.:56:19.

the enquiry to decide whether they want to make recommendations with

:56:20.:56:23.

regard to financial recommendations. I could not give a confirmation for

:56:24.:56:27.

that at the moment. That would have to come from the enquiry. I

:56:28.:56:36.

constituent was infected with hepatitis C in 1970. This was

:56:37.:56:43.

discovered only about three years ago. Will any consideration be given

:56:44.:56:48.

to those many years of suffering when the compensation scheme is put

:56:49.:56:59.

into effect? I can offer my sympathy to your constituent for the

:57:00.:57:05.

challenges she finds herself with. We have dizzy at this point that it

:57:06.:57:10.

will be going to individuals to make their applications. We will be

:57:11.:57:16.

responding to the consultation and I would strongly encourage my

:57:17.:57:23.

honourable friend to make representations on her behalf to the

:57:24.:57:24.

enquiry when it is established. I thank the Minister for giving way.

:57:25.:57:35.

He has been extremely generous. Could I just press him on the

:57:36.:57:38.

listing of health records. Any families also strength to salvage

:57:39.:57:45.

what happened last the scope of discussion is the enquiry. Can we

:57:46.:57:53.

write to the Minister on the representation records? I think it

:57:54.:58:00.

would be appropriate to write when that city was established. The point

:58:01.:58:04.

was made earlier about medical records, if there is evidence of

:58:05.:58:09.

tampering that I should be made available to the enquiry. I'm afraid

:58:10.:58:12.

we're going to have to bring my remarks to a conclusion. I thank

:58:13.:58:19.

those on both sides of the house who worked tirelessly on this issue over

:58:20.:58:24.

the years and particularly my voice to others who have already spoken to

:58:25.:58:28.

commend the honourable member for Kingston upon Hull North, who I know

:58:29.:58:36.

has spread not only powerfully today but on many occasions in the house

:58:37.:58:39.

and for many years on the subject. I would also like to commend her

:58:40.:58:47.

colleague, my colleague, the Right Honourable member for Worthing West

:58:48.:58:52.

who chairs the all parliamentary group, and thanks as she did members

:58:53.:58:56.

past and present of that group, notably the former chair Jason

:58:57.:59:02.

McCartney, late of this parish. And finally I would like to add thanks

:59:03.:59:07.

to ministerial colleagues handling this delicate issue for previous

:59:08.:59:14.

administrations. In particular my friend the member for North East

:59:15.:59:18.

Bedfordshire who has worked so hard not just for his constituents but

:59:19.:59:21.

for all of those affected by this tragedy. If I could appeal to the

:59:22.:59:29.

SNP spokesperson not to leak speeds ten minutes, ever be less, the

:59:30.:59:34.

Minister took longer a little, but took interventions. There is no

:59:35.:59:38.

requirement or need for the honourable lady to take quite as

:59:39.:59:42.

long. Thank you very much Mr Speaker. As the honourable laid for

:59:43.:59:46.

Kingston-upon-Hull said, 2400 people have died from this the worst

:59:47.:59:55.

disaster in HS history. This was due to of blood that led to the NHS

:59:56.:00:02.

sourcing products from America. The problem is that people with

:00:03.:00:09.

haemophilia, in men, or in women, who get factor nine, these

:00:10.:00:11.

concentrates are made from thousands of samples, and the moment you have

:00:12.:00:16.

one or two people within that collection you are starting to have

:00:17.:00:20.

the virus. And that is why they are affected at a much higher rate than

:00:21.:00:24.

those people who had a single blood transfusion, and the problem is we

:00:25.:00:28.

are talking about decades that this goes back, and has not been properly

:00:29.:00:32.

dealt with. As has been mentioned in the chamber already. In the two

:00:33.:00:37.

years I have been in the house we have had multiple debates,

:00:38.:00:39.

statements and urgent questions on this issue and I to pay tribute to

:00:40.:00:43.

the honourable lady or keeping at it with the all-party group. But most

:00:44.:00:49.

of that has been a round support, and it was only last July that

:00:50.:00:52.

finally the government came forward a strength and support 's package

:00:53.:00:59.

for this group of people. It is important to realise this is not

:01:00.:01:03.

compensation but X Gracia support payments, that do not recognise the

:01:04.:01:10.

loss and suffering of the victims of rated blood. -- contaminated blood.

:01:11.:01:18.

That was only seemed to come about as the Scottish Government came up

:01:19.:01:23.

with a larger lump sum and ongoing pavement, a 75% penchant to the

:01:24.:01:29.

spells of the brew two at the moment still don't get sufficient support

:01:30.:01:33.

here in England and that is not right, the idea that someone who

:01:34.:01:36.

loses a partner to this scandal is not compensated. Now, what we heard

:01:37.:01:43.

in March of this year, a mere seven months after that was that the

:01:44.:01:48.

government was consulting on perhaps restricting who would qualify for

:01:49.:01:52.

the highest payments and that these payments would not be subject to

:01:53.:01:59.

index linking. The youngest victim remaining is approximately 35. They

:02:00.:02:03.

have a whole lifetime to go through. Maybe a shortened lifetime in

:02:04.:02:07.

comparison to us but we cannot have that people are suddenly left and

:02:08.:02:17.

bottom feed -- in poverty further down the line. I welcome the

:02:18.:02:26.

suggestion CPI thinking goes ahead. I am grateful for her remarks,

:02:27.:02:32.

support extends to Wales as well, not just to England because it is a

:02:33.:02:36.

?10,000 payment as far understand for people in Wales as well. Is it

:02:37.:02:41.

her understanding that in terms of the reference of the enquiry will

:02:42.:02:45.

include the actions of governments in Wales and Scotland and possibly

:02:46.:02:47.

Northern Ireland as well as in England? I had intended to ask but

:02:48.:02:54.

couldn't get it in. Obviously the Scottish Government had an enquiry,

:02:55.:02:59.

the Penrose enquiry, but as the Minister has committed to this I

:03:00.:03:02.

would assume any enquiry going forward will look at the whole of

:03:03.:03:06.

the UK. They must be remembered the decisions that led to this were

:03:07.:03:11.

taken here in Whitehall, before devolution, and governments like the

:03:12.:03:13.

Scottish Government have tried to step up and support their

:03:14.:03:17.

constituents who have been affected by this but actually getting the

:03:18.:03:21.

answers to what caused this is in this place. I thank her for giving

:03:22.:03:27.

way and would she agree that the sense of a lack of trust has been

:03:28.:03:32.

enhanced by documents such as the self-sufficiency and blood product

:03:33.:03:35.

which was a DoH document but which many people felt was inaccurate and

:03:36.:03:42.

indeed outright lies. I think obviously all of these things will

:03:43.:03:46.

have to be looked at by the enquiry itself and I think documents,

:03:47.:03:50.

patients records, things that were altered things that were hidden, and

:03:51.:03:54.

things that were hiding behind public interest barriers now all

:03:55.:03:57.

need to as in the case of Hillsborough be opened up so that

:03:58.:04:02.

light is shone onto that. Now, the Penrose enquiry was Scotland only.

:04:03.:04:07.

The Department of Health was devoted to take bright at the time --

:04:08.:04:13.

invited to take part and make it a UK enquiry, but declined. Penrose

:04:14.:04:19.

did not have the ability to summon documents or people and that was one

:04:20.:04:23.

of its key weaknesses. I remember at the time, in the 80s, when this

:04:24.:04:28.

scandal started to unfold, and as a surgeon who of course uses blood on

:04:29.:04:32.

their patients, I remember how shocked I was at the mere thought

:04:33.:04:36.

that an action I might have taken could have harmed a patient that I

:04:37.:04:41.

was looking after. And I certainly set about in my elective surgery to

:04:42.:04:46.

chase every single blood cell to avoid spilling blood, using

:04:47.:04:52.

electrocautery, all sorts of modern techniques, and if you will out my

:04:53.:04:55.

staff from I feared the they will moan about how long I spent in

:04:56.:04:59.

theatre doing that. In doing that was an has been hit by a bus you

:05:00.:05:06.

have no choice. A criticism responding to Penrose in 2015 was

:05:07.:05:09.

surprised clinicians so showed much trust. -- showed so much trust in

:05:10.:05:17.

the quality of blood, but when a coalition League clinician is using

:05:18.:05:21.

so many increments we must be able to trust them, we know we have no

:05:22.:05:29.

personal mechanism to check everything. That is why there is

:05:30.:05:32.

licensing and inspections and government's role, and why there is

:05:33.:05:37.

a suspicion of harm, then action must be taken. That failure to act,

:05:38.:05:42.

that hiding, that is not dealing with out at the time happened

:05:43.:05:45.

pre-devolution, and this enquiry must take account of that. In

:05:46.:05:51.

particular we know that a conference in 1980 in Glasgow, clinicians were

:05:52.:05:55.

already raising concerns about seeing change in liver function in

:05:56.:05:59.

patients who were receiving but concentrate for haemophilia. It has

:06:00.:06:06.

appeared in a meeting we have already met recently in the 1981 UK

:06:07.:06:11.

blood transfusion research service which recognises about 50 patients a

:06:12.:06:17.

year developed some form of liver damage and yet the decision of that

:06:18.:06:20.

meeting appears to have been to let that continue and simply study it

:06:21.:06:26.

and use these patients as a way of developing a test for what was known

:06:27.:06:34.

at a time as non-a non-be hepatitis. It is important in this enquiry that

:06:35.:06:38.

we ensure we are looking at all of this. The official from the

:06:39.:06:40.

Department of Health and Social Security at that meeting would not

:06:41.:06:45.

attend Penrose. These people need to be called by the enquiry. So going

:06:46.:06:53.

forward, of course, it must include the families, the victims, so that

:06:54.:06:58.

we are sensitive to what it is they want to know. It isn't just

:06:59.:07:02.

government but producers, and not just producers in America, I think

:07:03.:07:06.

we tried to make ourselves feel better because we blame it on the

:07:07.:07:11.

States, where people bought blood. Where people with addictions and

:07:12.:07:15.

poverty and prisoners were used will stop in the mid-70s, prisoners in

:07:16.:07:20.

this country are also used. And it is claimed that that was encouraged

:07:21.:07:24.

by the Home Office as part of prisoner rehabilitation. We need

:07:25.:07:29.

those documents, we need to understand if that decision was

:07:30.:07:34.

made. UK producers have often been found wanting in the quality of

:07:35.:07:38.

product that they come up with. We mustn't pat ourselves on the back

:07:39.:07:42.

and imagine that the UK product was somehow safe and this was all due to

:07:43.:07:48.

the UA -- US. We need to follow the salmon get answers. I think people

:07:49.:07:54.

have been failed so many times over and over, it is crucial that this

:07:55.:08:02.

does not happen again. We need to keep the government on their toes,

:08:03.:08:05.

have reports back from the enquiry at is it set up so we know what it

:08:06.:08:12.

is investigating cos if we fail to get answers this time and in

:08:13.:08:15.

particular failed to actually deliver compensation for lives lost,

:08:16.:08:22.

for suffering, failure to get a mortgage or insurance, the costs of

:08:23.:08:26.

care, then we will have failed them all over again. Thank you Mr

:08:27.:08:33.

Speaker, thank you. Firstly, I would like to congratulate the honourable

:08:34.:08:39.

member for Kingston upon will for securing this important debate

:08:40.:08:44.

today. I was also in this chamber when the former member for Lee

:08:45.:08:49.

raised a very concerning issue, that needed to be looked at in this new

:08:50.:08:54.

enquiry. And that struck a chord with me will stop I'm delighted to

:08:55.:08:57.

be back in the chamber to see this happening. Like many members of the

:08:58.:09:03.

house on both sides I have been contacted by constituents who have

:09:04.:09:08.

told me about their experiences and how contaminated blood has affected

:09:09.:09:12.

them, their family life and their friends. Every so often, in the

:09:13.:09:20.

experience that you have as a constituency MP, you meet the

:09:21.:09:26.

saddest constituents, that tell you the most heartbreaking stories, and

:09:27.:09:32.

you sit there week in week out and these resonate with you, but it is

:09:33.:09:38.

not a story for these victims. It is daily life, it is wrecked lives,

:09:39.:09:43.

where nothing has been done, pure injustice. So, it is clear that

:09:44.:09:51.

destructive effects of contaminated blood products used decades ago have

:09:52.:09:56.

continued to daily effect people's lives, in a devastating way, that

:09:57.:10:03.

frankly, when I have heard the stories, of how it has affected

:10:04.:10:07.

people, it has indeed lived with me, and I can understand the campaigning

:10:08.:10:13.

nature that has been brought to this house on all sides, and I am

:10:14.:10:16.

delighted to bring my experience on behalf of my constituents. Today, we

:10:17.:10:23.

finally recognise that this government has done this and it is

:10:24.:10:26.

ready to tackle this injustice and I am delighted to see that that is

:10:27.:10:31.

being done in the name of the victims and the families who have

:10:32.:10:34.

done nothing to bring this upon themselves. After I became the MP in

:10:35.:10:42.

May 2015I met one of my constituents in Bishop Stoke, Gary Webster, who

:10:43.:10:47.

has been left coping with HIV, Hepatitis C, and possibly variant

:10:48.:10:53.

CJD following NHS blood products used in the 1980s as routine

:10:54.:11:00.

procedures to treat his haemophilia. I'm very grateful to the Honourable

:11:01.:11:03.

Lady giving way. One of the important things in this world that

:11:04.:11:08.

it beat both fire back, the decision made to treat for hepatitis B is in

:11:09.:11:14.

the 1960s and yet we did not can treat -- treat concentrate, so we

:11:15.:11:18.

need to make sure all decisions are included. I thank her for that input

:11:19.:11:26.

and I feel it is very important to bring everything to play in this

:11:27.:11:30.

investigation, it is absolutely right. Last year, Gary attended a

:11:31.:11:36.

debate we had here once again to discuss this really heartbreaking

:11:37.:11:41.

issue. Now, Gary went on to attend a specialist school in Orton, where he

:11:42.:11:45.

was one of many haemophiliacs who were at school there. He told me

:11:46.:11:51.

that he kept in contact with around 100 students who had all been

:11:52.:11:58.

affected by contaminated blood. Now, he along with those other students

:11:59.:12:03.

continued to stay friends with those students, but only now I believe

:12:04.:12:10.

around 20 are still alive. These were all fellow students who

:12:11.:12:14.

contracted illnesses through blood products that they have received

:12:15.:12:19.

because of haemophilia. And I know that tragically lose the story is

:12:20.:12:22.

similar to the thousands across this country. I know from other

:12:23.:12:27.

constituents some who wished not to be named who have had great

:12:28.:12:31.

financial burdens placed upon them and their families as a result of

:12:32.:12:36.

the diseases that they have contracted which have affected their

:12:37.:12:40.

lives to this contaminated bud. -- blood.

:12:41.:12:47.

It is only right that we support those whose lives have been altered

:12:48.:12:54.

by this contaminated blood and I hope that this enquiry will be

:12:55.:13:01.

effective and that the annual payments for hepatitis are being

:13:02.:13:13.

increased, going up to 18,020 19. And the payments for those with

:13:14.:13:17.

hepatitis stage to have seen the payments going up ?56,000 500. And

:13:18.:13:27.

these payments will be linked. This will help all constituents we know

:13:28.:13:31.

who have been affected. I have also been speaking to Gary and others

:13:32.:13:35.

about the hardship of these conditions have brought and the

:13:36.:13:39.

challenges they have brought to the slaves. Being able to bring up and

:13:40.:13:45.

support their families in the week they would've liked to and chosen to

:13:46.:13:50.

have they not been affected. There has been almost ?400 million paid

:13:51.:13:57.

out to those affected by five different organisations. I am

:13:58.:14:01.

delighted that the additional ?125 million offered by the government

:14:02.:14:07.

which will double the department 's annual spend to the scheme over the

:14:08.:14:13.

past -- next five years. This has to go to the people who need it. I know

:14:14.:14:19.

that people have made daily life decisions which have been really

:14:20.:14:23.

difficult as they did not have the financial restraints they have had.

:14:24.:14:31.

She refers to the scheme and the stump constituents and with these

:14:32.:14:37.

existing schemes. A constituent of mine had the transfusion of

:14:38.:14:47.

contaminated blood. Which he encourage the government to locate

:14:48.:14:50.

cases again under the current scheme so that there are not people missing

:14:51.:14:56.

out I know SNMP there is nothing more frustrating when people have

:14:57.:15:06.

just fallen outside the bracket. I hope this enquiry will give us a

:15:07.:15:11.

chance to look at that. The government has done significantly

:15:12.:15:14.

more than other governments to protect those affected. I know that

:15:15.:15:20.

is a commitment to ensure that we are currently working to bring the

:15:21.:15:26.

five schemes together. It is a rather complex nature. And these

:15:27.:15:31.

people have complicated and difficult waves and I think it is

:15:32.:15:34.

only right that we make it easier for them to get the support that

:15:35.:15:41.

they need. I am so pleased that the Prime Minister has announced that

:15:42.:15:45.

this morning that there will be a wide-ranging enquiry into this

:15:46.:15:49.

tragedy and I will be pleased it is the type of enquiry drawn together

:15:50.:15:56.

by victims to suit the victims. They will finally have a voice, the

:15:57.:16:02.

strongest voice possible, to get the cancers which the absolutely

:16:03.:16:06.

deserve. It is only right that the consultation will be healed by those

:16:07.:16:12.

affected by this injustice solea families have a voice. It is my hope

:16:13.:16:17.

this enquiry will provide the answers to those looking for them.

:16:18.:16:23.

In particular, the concern regarding the criminality. This is extremely

:16:24.:16:30.

concerning. This is a vehicle to get their voices here. If there is

:16:31.:16:34.

anything which should be going to the court, we should be able to do

:16:35.:16:40.

something about it. We have the opportunity in this enquiry that no

:16:41.:16:47.

voice will be lost. The victims and the families will get the fullest

:16:48.:16:50.

compensation and the answer is that they deserve. Can I just advise the

:16:51.:16:58.

house, colleagues should be thinking in terms of speeches of five

:16:59.:17:07.

minutes. If the cheer is able to accommodate everybody. Longer

:17:08.:17:18.

speeches will have to wait for the long winter evenings. I hope we can

:17:19.:17:29.

give a warm and enthusiastic welcome to were made in Speaker. Thank you

:17:30.:17:37.

very much. I am grateful to my honourable friend for securing this

:17:38.:17:43.

debate. As the new MP for Oxford, it is assumed that the Oxford

:17:44.:17:49.

haemophiliac centre of which supplied blood which so many people

:17:50.:17:55.

contracting contaminated blood. It advocated the use of humans to test

:17:56.:18:07.

infectivity. However, I have very proud of the people of Oxford who

:18:08.:18:11.

have campaigned for many years for justice on this issue. As we have

:18:12.:18:16.

here, they are fighting for truth and accountability. That is all

:18:17.:18:22.

events such as this cannot happen again. As I start my maiden speech,

:18:23.:18:30.

a dedicated to them. The people who fought against the odds. I am

:18:31.:18:40.

enormously grateful for the people of Oxford for elected me as their

:18:41.:18:46.

representative. I take over from Andrew Smith. Many people both sides

:18:47.:18:52.

of the house will know him very well. Andrew came initially to

:18:53.:18:55.

Oxford unsure whether it would become his home soon recognised its

:18:56.:19:03.

potential as a great city. As a student, he met his wonderful wife

:19:04.:19:08.

Valerie, who was also known by many people in the house. She was a

:19:09.:19:12.

powerful advocate for the community which she served as a county

:19:13.:19:16.

councillor for many years. Her wisdom came this is still very sadly

:19:17.:19:26.

missed by many others. Andrew was a diligent constituent MP and care

:19:27.:19:30.

passionately about this city and its people, including those living in

:19:31.:19:36.

his home community. He also had a very distinguished career in

:19:37.:19:40.

Parliament, including serving in the Cabinet as Chief Secretary to the

:19:41.:19:44.

Treasury and then Secretary of State for Work and Pensions from 2002 -

:19:45.:19:55.

2004. His work affected listed as a million pensioners out of poverty,

:19:56.:20:03.

and gotten some of the biggest increases in health and overseas aid

:20:04.:20:07.

spending our country has ever seen. He also presided over

:20:08.:20:11.

ground-breaking legislation setting up the pension protection fund,

:20:12.:20:16.

setting up the pension credit and many other initiatives. He was a

:20:17.:20:24.

very humble man. He will stress that his achievements came about through

:20:25.:20:29.

working with others either in this house or in Oxford. When he was in

:20:30.:20:35.

the Cabinet, his own television was so dilapidated it had to be hit many

:20:36.:20:40.

times before it would actually work! He was very humble but fairly

:20:41.:20:45.

straightforward. I am sure that members on all sides of the house

:20:46.:20:50.

will wish me very long and happy retirement. Oxford East could be

:20:51.:21:03.

imagined as a constituency populated only by mysterious dawns. But it

:21:04.:21:12.

also has an industrial heritage and a great industrial potential. What

:21:13.:21:19.

was the steel plant, know a BMW plant produces nearly 250,000 cars

:21:20.:21:25.

every year. The engineers and technicians are amongst the best in

:21:26.:21:31.

the world. Oxford was a city which voted to remain in the European

:21:32.:21:38.

Union. But no one voted to deny the city its potential. It is essential

:21:39.:21:42.

that European markets remain open to the likes of BMW and that Oxford

:21:43.:21:49.

maintains its many links with global science. It is a city which has

:21:50.:21:57.

always worked out words is the first-ever Oxfam shop remains

:21:58.:22:05.

others. People from all over the world coal Oxford East its home. We

:22:06.:22:11.

have many different religion religions within the constituency

:22:12.:22:20.

and a fuel the potential of all our people has been held back. Yes the

:22:21.:22:26.

funeral of Bill Buckingham, a Labour councillor for 70 years. He died at

:22:27.:22:37.

the age of 96. He has many that after he kickbacks from serving in

:22:38.:22:44.

the Second World War, he wanted social equality. As Bevan put it at

:22:45.:22:52.

the time, we need high-quality housing so that the grocer, picture

:22:53.:22:57.

and farm labourer could be neighbours without social

:22:58.:23:03.

distinction. What of that survives no? House prices rent in Oxford are

:23:04.:23:08.

the least affordable and Britain out of London. People renting have less

:23:09.:23:15.

rates and if they were buying a refrigerator. People are being

:23:16.:23:23.

forced out of this city of having the claim of not coming more than

:23:24.:23:30.

the minimum wage. People are doing their best to bring up their

:23:31.:23:35.

children in low-income in Oxford are the heroes and heroines of today.

:23:36.:23:39.

They are often running between more than one job to make ends meet. They

:23:40.:23:49.

did like to hear politicians see that there's no such thing as in

:23:50.:23:55.

work poverty. Oxford needs more genuinely affordable houses, the

:23:56.:24:04.

affordability is not ?400,000. That is currently the case. It has to

:24:05.:24:11.

recognise houses as homes and places to live, not merely investment

:24:12.:24:15.

opportunities. We need to unlock the potential of our communities and not

:24:16.:24:20.

allow them to be asset stripped. I love of my family in the

:24:21.:24:29.

constituency which is a very wonderful and friendly place, but

:24:30.:24:33.

nearly half the children on the estate are being brought up in

:24:34.:24:39.

poverty. Many people kept the local community centre going through good

:24:40.:24:45.

times and bad, even after it was burnt down. I loved meeting other

:24:46.:24:50.

appearance at the children's centre of the my first child four years

:24:51.:24:59.

ago. By the time my daughter arrived 18 months ago, there were no more

:25:00.:25:06.

baby sessions available. It was only available for supervised contact

:25:07.:25:12.

session for two hours a week. Community spaces like children

:25:13.:25:15.

centre may not grab headlines, but for many people, the mean the

:25:16.:25:20.

difference between loneliness and friendship, ill health and

:25:21.:25:25.

well-being and seclusion and neighbourliness. Oxford East and its

:25:26.:25:30.

incredible people have incredible potential but they feel they are too

:25:31.:25:36.

often held back. I will devote the time they have given me in this

:25:37.:25:41.

place to ensure a better, brighter and theatre future for them and

:25:42.:25:44.

people like them across the country. Thank you. Can I start by paying

:25:45.:25:58.

tribute to the member for Kingston-Upon-Hull for her

:25:59.:26:06.

persistence on this issue. To also welcome the ministers statement that

:26:07.:26:11.

a public enquiry will happen on these important issues and the Prime

:26:12.:26:17.

Minister has clearly listen to the views across the house on this

:26:18.:26:26.

matter. Richard and his wife came to tell me about his story. He was the

:26:27.:26:36.

haemophiliac and went to a physically disabled school in

:26:37.:26:43.

Hampshire when he was 11. For six years, he was given hundreds of

:26:44.:26:48.

thousands of units of factor eight. Prior to that, he had been given an

:26:49.:26:56.

alternative which was perfectly fine in moderating the condition. This

:26:57.:27:10.

meant for Richard change throughout his lifetime. There were 75 people

:27:11.:27:20.

in the school alongside him. Sadly, 64 of them are no longer with us and

:27:21.:27:23.

many of those young people died in the teenage years.

:27:24.:27:31.

It was an added tragedy when Richard and his wife told me that having got

:27:32.:27:39.

the very good news that they got married and decided to have

:27:40.:27:48.

children, they were, due to the risk of the hepatitis affecting his

:27:49.:27:55.

child, they had a late term termination of that baby. These

:27:56.:27:59.

diseases affect many things throughout our lifetime. Of course I

:28:00.:28:05.

neglected to congratulate the Honourable member for Oxford East

:28:06.:28:10.

for her very fine maiden speech, and she certainly made a better job than

:28:11.:28:20.

I did two years ago. Highly relevant to the topic. Am sure she will make

:28:21.:28:25.

many fine contributions in the many years ahead. We have congratulated

:28:26.:28:35.

her on her maiden speech was not talking about the challenges

:28:36.:28:42.

affected by contaminated blood sufferers having children. Does the

:28:43.:28:45.

enquiry needs to consider the situation is of those people who

:28:46.:28:51.

like my constituent had one round of IVF treatment from the NHS, but not

:28:52.:28:59.

entitled to the second round, he had to pay for it himself, that kind of

:29:00.:29:02.

conversation should be considered in the round when looking at the effect

:29:03.:29:12.

of this people in -- on people. There are so many tragic obligations

:29:13.:29:15.

with these diseases and the treatment they receive are clearly

:29:16.:29:19.

of my photos of the afternoon and had they had knowledge of these

:29:20.:29:23.

treatment with have any adverse impact. My constituents, Helen, who

:29:24.:29:33.

moved into thousand six, she was infected in the 80s, when moving to

:29:34.:29:45.

my area within the knee -- with a new GP she was as having these

:29:46.:29:54.

obligations. There are so many issues, diabetes, rheumatoid

:29:55.:29:58.

arthritis, it has had a huge impact on her life. She calls herself a

:29:59.:30:04.

ticking time bomb, having to look at setting up a new life with her

:30:05.:30:11.

husband and two children. I spoke to both my constituents today who

:30:12.:30:15.

talked quite incredibly how they seemed to carry these burdens so

:30:16.:30:19.

lightly, and certainly in terms of when they speak to me about these

:30:20.:30:22.

issues they have moved on from the principal issues which were

:30:23.:30:27.

compensation and now what they want is a public enquiry to get to the

:30:28.:30:32.

bottom of this issue. It is about answers, and I'm not saying that

:30:33.:30:35.

compensation is and involvement, it is hugely important for them and

:30:36.:30:38.

their spouses and their children but today what they wanted answers with

:30:39.:30:44.

what was known. I happy for him to give way and he is making a very

:30:45.:30:50.

good case. Would it not be the case that now is the chancel transparency

:30:51.:30:54.

to be at the core of the enquiry, welcoming as we do the funding and

:30:55.:31:00.

enquiry, but isn't transparently what it is all about? I welcome as

:31:01.:31:05.

the minister may confirm if he gets the chance at the end of the debate,

:31:06.:31:11.

the government has I believe released all documents in its

:31:12.:31:16.

possession. We should have absolute and Rosie, the ability to interview

:31:17.:31:19.

key witnesses involved in the tragedy. -- absolute transparency.

:31:20.:31:26.

What is known, won the biggest issues we have had. Helen me about

:31:27.:31:31.

despite the fact she didn't find out until 20 minutes afterwards -- 20

:31:32.:31:36.

years afterwards she was infected, the hospital had known for years.

:31:37.:31:42.

Richard sent me a passage that he had found, done some research and

:31:43.:31:54.

apparently in 1975 the Professor of California blood medicine rose to

:31:55.:32:02.

someone in 1975 to warn him of dangerous plasma sourced from high

:32:03.:32:06.

risk paid skid Row donors and business saying that it was

:32:07.:32:10.

extraordinary hazardous. These are the questions that my constituents

:32:11.:32:15.

want answers, what was known about the risks? Should people have been

:32:16.:32:20.

informed about the change in approach? Why when things were found

:32:21.:32:32.

out about these issues, why those products were withdrawn. Was it a

:32:33.:32:42.

case of negligence? Was it a paternalistic approach by

:32:43.:32:44.

clinicians? Was it incompetence? These are the questions that we need

:32:45.:32:50.

answers to. I welcome the fact that the government has done more than

:32:51.:32:53.

any other in terms of compensation and it has now done more than any in

:32:54.:32:59.

transparency, and bringing forward a public enquiry which I very much

:33:00.:33:03.

welcome. I hope I can play my part in making sure my constituents get

:33:04.:33:07.

these answers, and all other people affected by this terrible tragedy,

:33:08.:33:12.

for my constituents, their loved ones, that we get clear answers and

:33:13.:33:15.

resolution to many of these questions. Can I just remind

:33:16.:33:24.

Honourable members that the speaker did ask if speeches could be kept to

:33:25.:33:27.

around five minutes. Alison Thewliss. Thank you very much. I

:33:28.:33:33.

would first like to pay tribute for the Honourable member of Kingston

:33:34.:33:40.

upon Hull North, and to Andy Burnham and others who have pursued this

:33:41.:33:44.

relentlessly. It is testament to their commitment that they have kept

:33:45.:33:46.

going with this when all hope seems to be lost. I would also like to pay

:33:47.:33:50.

tribute to the member for Oxford East on her excellent maiden speech.

:33:51.:33:54.

There's lots of common ground there, and hope to work together over the

:33:55.:33:59.

coming months and years. Adams that it is bigger than before Parliament

:34:00.:34:03.

broke up in April Andy Burnham laid a challenge to all parties in now

:34:04.:34:06.

has a commitment in their manifestos to the victim of contaminated blood

:34:07.:34:11.

and I'm pleased my party saw fit to do so, saying within the manifesto

:34:12.:34:15.

that the victims of the man -- contaminated blood products deserve

:34:16.:34:21.

answers. In 2008, the Penrose enquiry was established by the

:34:22.:34:25.

Scottish Government the mail reporting in 2015. We have

:34:26.:34:27.

substantially improved the compensation scheme, best in the UK.

:34:28.:34:32.

SNP MPs will support a full public enquiry on the issue, in the rest of

:34:33.:34:36.

the UK, and they are proud to stand by those words here today. I am

:34:37.:34:40.

incredibly pleased and surprised here that the government has changed

:34:41.:34:44.

their stance on this issue. When we met last April, it didn't feel as

:34:45.:34:50.

though anything much more was going to happen. On this. And the change

:34:51.:34:54.

in attitude from the government is very, very welcome. I wouldn't want

:34:55.:34:58.

to appear churlish in this at all but it certainly is a change to

:34:59.:35:01.

Parliament, and the change numbers in this Parliament do make something

:35:02.:35:04.

that seemed impossible before now open for debate, and I am very glad

:35:05.:35:09.

to see that. There has been recognition of the limitations

:35:10.:35:13.

Penrose, and what this, to -- Scottish Government could do. We had

:35:14.:35:16.

a limited remit to consider negligence, so it is good to have

:35:17.:35:21.

now this opportunity to really look at all these issues and I'm glad the

:35:22.:35:25.

government has committed to work with the devolved administrations

:35:26.:35:27.

because we now have the experience of having done so, having gone

:35:28.:35:30.

through the enquiry limited as it was. I hope to hear more about the

:35:31.:35:38.

ways in which Scottish Government can help, with victims in Scotland

:35:39.:35:41.

brought in as part of the purposeless. As the debate in April

:35:42.:35:46.

2016, Mike constituents, Maria, I haven't been able to reach her on

:35:47.:35:55.

her views, it is a bit late in the day but I would like to put on the

:35:56.:36:00.

record a gamer reared receive the buttons whose enduring a

:36:01.:36:05.

miscarriage. -- Maria received a transfusion during a miscarriage.

:36:06.:36:12.

She would want this house to know that in the 36 years that she has

:36:13.:36:15.

lived with hepatitis C she doesn't want charity, she doesn't want

:36:16.:36:19.

vouchers, just one hand-outs, she wants to be treated fairly and with

:36:20.:36:23.

dignity and that is the very least she was deserve in this process. I

:36:24.:36:30.

thank her for giving way. The Oxford haemophilia centre serves my

:36:31.:36:32.

constituents and so I thank the Honourable member for bringing this

:36:33.:36:38.

to our attention. Do you agree that is not just transparency but also

:36:39.:36:41.

justice that those victims want, and which she also agree with me that if

:36:42.:36:45.

we do find evidence of a cover-up that those individuals should also

:36:46.:36:50.

face the full force of the law? I absolutely agree and I am glad she

:36:51.:36:54.

raised the point because it is what I was moving on to next. Without

:36:55.:36:58.

that justice, these victims will never feel as though they have been

:36:59.:37:01.

well served, they will feel as though they have lost out as part of

:37:02.:37:04.

the process and there has been no justice. This is why we need to look

:37:05.:37:09.

at the issues in medical records being changed because there must

:37:10.:37:13.

have been some clear instruction from somebody to do so. These kinds

:37:14.:37:16.

of cover-ups do not happen on their own and we must find those lines of

:37:17.:37:21.

results ability that said two people delete those records, don't tell

:37:22.:37:24.

people about this, test people that don't let them know. All of these

:37:25.:37:32.

questions must be answered, what was known, when and by whom. In the

:37:33.:37:36.

search for answers as well, we must recognise that some of these answers

:37:37.:37:39.

can't be given because they are held in the United States, and we must

:37:40.:37:43.

find ways if ministers can reach out and speak to their counterparts, in

:37:44.:37:47.

other parts of the world, to try and find answers to these questions, if

:37:48.:37:51.

there are means of doing so, in cooperation with the American

:37:52.:37:53.

government these must be found as well. We must have confidence in the

:37:54.:37:59.

processes that we have today as well and I understand the US that it

:38:00.:38:04.

screening but donations in 1983. We didn't start to do that until 1991,

:38:05.:38:09.

and I'm conscious that if I go to give but the integrity of the system

:38:10.:38:13.

is based on my honesty at every stage. We must make sure that

:38:14.:38:17.

systems that they are as robust as an integral and as good as possible.

:38:18.:38:25.

The enquiry today, reaching out to those receiving funds through

:38:26.:38:28.

covering schemes, I would hope that is done with cooperation with the

:38:29.:38:31.

devolved administrations where they are responsible for that and I would

:38:32.:38:33.

encourage the government to carry out advertising to seek ways in as

:38:34.:38:37.

wide a means as possible of contacting people to let them know

:38:38.:38:40.

because it is maybe a tummy has died and family members aren't aware of

:38:41.:38:44.

this and we must try to reach out as widely as we can cover to social

:38:45.:38:48.

media law advertising whatever means, to get as many people

:38:49.:38:51.

involved in this enquiry as well. We need to make people's supported to

:38:52.:38:57.

give evidence because this could be a very traumatic and spares for

:38:58.:39:01.

some, may need counselling or emotional support to attend and

:39:02.:39:04.

produce documents and make sure the documents reach the enquiry, and on

:39:05.:39:11.

those documents, in their response this, documents must be treated with

:39:12.:39:14.

the utmost care and protection. People are quite rightly hugely

:39:15.:39:19.

sceptical about their documents. We must make sure that the integrity of

:39:20.:39:23.

these documents is right, that people can trust that if they set

:39:24.:39:26.

met evidence that evidence will not be lost. I go for government

:39:27.:39:30.

evidence as well as private Evans belonged to the members of the

:39:31.:39:33.

public as well. We have waited too long, far too long on this for

:39:34.:39:37.

justice. We encourage the government to carry out this enquiry, that this

:39:38.:39:41.

justice is maintained, that this is not dragged out with many many years

:39:42.:39:46.

without answer, people have waited far too long for justice and they

:39:47.:39:51.

should not have to wait much longer. Anna Soubry. It is a pleasure to see

:39:52.:39:58.

you in your place, at Madam Deputy Speaker, it is the first time I have

:39:59.:40:01.

seen you in that chair. I would like to make a few comments because my

:40:02.:40:07.

involvement in this was as I think perhaps the 2nd Minister for the

:40:08.:40:10.

Public health at the Honourable member for Kingston Apollo whole had

:40:11.:40:16.

the great misfortune I would have said to come and see them as she

:40:17.:40:20.

did, with all the vim and vigour that she has brought to this

:40:21.:40:23.

campaign, over seven long delays. -- seven long years. It is to long that

:40:24.:40:32.

justice is finally to come about. When the Honourable Lady came to

:40:33.:40:36.

talk to me was the biggest concern them burning injustice, and frankly

:40:37.:40:40.

it just come from my point of view, it just felt that there was

:40:41.:40:43.

something not right. Couldn't put my finger on it, there was something

:40:44.:40:49.

inherently that led you something along the view that something was

:40:50.:40:54.

not right. That was supported by the attitude of some I came across who

:40:55.:40:59.

wanted not just to sweep it under the carpet but just not want to do

:41:00.:41:04.

with it any longer, try somehow to move onto other areas about how we

:41:05.:41:09.

could help is unfortunate victims. At that time that second part of the

:41:10.:41:15.

great injustice, I want to talk much more about, the money. There are two

:41:16.:41:22.

points to all of this. The great injustice of the fact that this

:41:23.:41:27.

terrible scandal happened, and it happens decades ago, when

:41:28.:41:30.

governments of both political colours, and in fact the third

:41:31.:41:35.

colour of the coalition failed to grasp it in the way that I, and I

:41:36.:41:39.

have to say, others in government wanted to, and I am going to pay

:41:40.:41:44.

fulsome tribute to my right honourable friend the member for

:41:45.:41:47.

North East Bedfordshire who if I put it this way absolutely got it, right

:41:48.:41:53.

honourable friend the member for Guildford who after the Honourable

:41:54.:41:59.

Lady for Kingston-upon-Hull ask the question last week of the Prime

:42:00.:42:03.

Minister, we were sitting here, next to each other, I won't repeat

:42:04.:42:05.

everything that we said, but we basically said to each other for

:42:06.:42:11.

goodness sakes, words to that effect, let's just get on and get

:42:12.:42:16.

this done properly. Not just a public enquiry, but most importantly

:42:17.:42:20.

I would say the money. As I say I will come onto that and I also want

:42:21.:42:23.

to pay tribute to Jane Anderson who is also the previous Minister for

:42:24.:42:27.

Public health and I know that Jane got this as well.

:42:28.:42:35.

It took the extra material forthcoming in recent times to be

:42:36.:42:41.

able to inform the government is to further evidence that there should

:42:42.:42:50.

be an enquiry. Members on both sides of the house care about this and see

:42:51.:42:58.

that something needs to be done. It needs political will, so I pay

:42:59.:43:02.

handsome tribute to the Prime Minister for not messing about on

:43:03.:43:13.

this. I know my honourable friend the Secretary of State will have

:43:14.:43:17.

made the case to the Prime Minister. She has not missed the boat. She has

:43:18.:43:22.

taken the rate decision and we will know have a public enquiry. But

:43:23.:43:29.

there is this second grave injustice. I was reminded of this by

:43:30.:43:35.

correspondence I had from parents and my constituency. The sun went

:43:36.:43:47.

blind from haemophilia. He was diagnosed with HIV and hepatitis C.

:43:48.:44:01.

He has been the victim of terrible prejudice. Horrible story is a

:44:02.:44:05.

bullying. No he is married and the father of a child,

:44:06.:44:16.

the complaint is that they can only see the good in people and their

:44:17.:44:26.

only concern is to see the suffering of their child. They just want a

:44:27.:44:36.

proper financial package. We have heard from many members talking

:44:37.:44:49.

about this payment scheme. Could a bigger government, that these

:44:50.:44:55.

schemes have yet to be sorted out. Scrap. Get rid of them. Give these

:44:56.:45:03.

people the money they deserve and need. Do not give it as an extra

:45:04.:45:12.

payment. Do not have them scrabbling about on countless bits of paper

:45:13.:45:18.

going cap in hand for money. As if they have not suffered enough? So

:45:19.:45:26.

they do not have to go, as the seer, bidding for bits of money. These

:45:27.:45:34.

things are possible. It can be done. Get the money that is required and

:45:35.:45:43.

then you have to do is not look at liability, but a quantum. How much

:45:44.:45:55.

does each individual with the be entitled to if liability was not an

:45:56.:45:59.

issue and it was just about how much. And then do the right thing. I

:46:00.:46:04.

do believe government can find the money. I know many members,

:46:05.:46:10.

including the former Prime Minister David Cameron, said it was not the

:46:11.:46:20.

right time to do that, but he got the ball moving and it is no time to

:46:21.:46:24.

sort out the second grave injustice, the money. Get the money together

:46:25.:46:30.

and give these people everything that they absolutely deserve and the

:46:31.:46:36.

need and then finally, the great injustice, the national scandal will

:46:37.:46:49.

be sorted out and solved. Thank you. I first became engaged in this issue

:46:50.:46:59.

after 2010 when constituents contacted me. One constituent, in a

:47:00.:47:07.

remarkable man called Andrew, I feel slightly ashamed I did not totally

:47:08.:47:13.

understand the utter tragedy of contaminated blood. It has not been

:47:14.:47:22.

with us for just seven years, it has been with as for 30 years. We feel

:47:23.:47:35.

to with it. In the same way as we have feel to deal with the likes of

:47:36.:47:41.

Hillsborough quickly. I would like to talk about the remit of the

:47:42.:47:48.

enquiry. This is not just about the feeling which led to the infections

:47:49.:47:53.

in the first place. Until recently, the government would not even

:47:54.:48:06.

mention the word negligence. Thanks to the work and reborn gnome has

:48:07.:48:10.

done, we are talking about criminality. -- Andy Burnham. We can

:48:11.:48:20.

make comparisons with Hillsborough over many years. The victims were

:48:21.:48:28.

ignored and badly treated. We have to look at the Beacon and financing.

:48:29.:48:38.

The schemes, the administration of it, has been appalling. What we

:48:39.:48:46.

needed is a bespoke solution. We are talking about a finite and

:48:47.:48:51.

decreasing number of people. Everybody is in a different

:48:52.:48:58.

position. There are circumstances, health and personal needs. Finally,

:48:59.:49:01.

in relation to the way they have had to fight, they do again pay tribute

:49:02.:49:10.

to my honourable friend from Kingston-Upon-Hull, I just wish the

:49:11.:49:18.

all-party group had a loving people like her. The victims have had to

:49:19.:49:27.

fight and fight to get compensation. I have taken part in the seven

:49:28.:49:34.

defeats during recent years and I am pleased to see the Minister is open

:49:35.:49:41.

to an enquiry of which has complete power. We need to be able to call

:49:42.:49:48.

witnesses and interrogate experience. We do need forensic

:49:49.:49:53.

skills, but the enquiry has to have credibility and trust. We do not

:49:54.:49:58.

want to make the same stakes we have made with the sexual abuse

:49:59.:50:06.

enquiries. I was listening to the radio the other day to Doctor

:50:07.:50:12.

Richard Stone because he was someone trusted by the local community and I

:50:13.:50:19.

think what we need here is a combination of those skills and

:50:20.:50:24.

people who know the issues and the skills involved and trusted. We need

:50:25.:50:33.

full access to documentation. We have to give proper representation

:50:34.:50:36.

to the victims and their families and I hope the government is now

:50:37.:50:41.

discovering that it's neglect of social housing over many years I

:50:42.:50:53.

also force economies. In the last debate, Andy Burnham held it in this

:50:54.:51:04.

house a few months ago, we were told a public enquiry was not

:51:05.:51:12.

appropriate. Nonconsensual testing, victims not been informed of results

:51:13.:51:19.

of testing, nonconsensual research involving previously untested

:51:20.:51:24.

patients. When people we are informed, they were informed in

:51:25.:51:33.

hospital corridors. Lies were told. All within the relatively recent

:51:34.:51:39.

past. The allegations in relation to documents been destroyed and people

:51:40.:51:44.

not being available to answer questions. All this has to be

:51:45.:51:48.

addressed through this enquiry. Can I end by referring to the remarks by

:51:49.:52:00.

Andrew March. With his consent, there are powerful details which she

:52:01.:52:05.

courageously put out into the public domain because he wanted to get to

:52:06.:52:09.

the bottom of this. He wrote in a letter to me, essentially, I am one

:52:10.:52:19.

of the patients who was not informed that I had hepatitis in the 1980s. I

:52:20.:52:27.

have since been informed I have hepatitis C. Despite testing me

:52:28.:52:36.

years earlier without myself or my parents knowing, I only found out by

:52:37.:52:43.

accident in 1992 when I transferred my key from Warwick to London. On

:52:44.:52:52.

further discussion, Mr March did not seem to be only a few was hepatitis

:52:53.:53:04.

C and we spent considerable time discussing it and the possibility of

:53:05.:53:17.

antibody activity. He was one of the 250 HIV haemophiliacs from the 1980s

:53:18.:53:22.

still lives today. Hundreds have died in recent decades, many of them

:53:23.:53:28.

my friends. I have to deal with the negative effects of cirrhosis of the

:53:29.:53:29.

liver. This tragedy, this avoidable tragedy

:53:30.:53:47.

has completely transformed Andrew 's life. It has put him at the huge

:53:48.:53:57.

disadvantage. He has never received the proper explanation. Despite

:53:58.:54:03.

that, he has devoted his life to ensuring justice will be done. Many

:54:04.:54:10.

of the other victims are already did. We need to read this enquiry

:54:11.:54:21.

under in which nothing is unexposed we need to it at the speedy claim.

:54:22.:54:28.

If we do not do so, there will be a reduced number of people who get

:54:29.:54:36.

justice. Wellcome Madam Deputy Speaker. The very unreal case he

:54:37.:54:47.

mentioned, few of us could believe it was true if we had not lived with

:54:48.:54:54.

it ourselves. I would pay tribute to all the campaigners up and down the

:54:55.:55:00.

country who have got this on the agenda, particularly the member for

:55:01.:55:07.

Kingston-Upon-Hull. It shows how Parliament can work. People can make

:55:08.:55:13.

a difference. I hope we will make a difference to those people who have

:55:14.:55:16.

suffered. I hope today's announcement will really change

:55:17.:55:23.

people's lives. I would like to thank the Prime Minister and the

:55:24.:55:27.

government for listening and for responding over this very tragic

:55:28.:55:31.

affair. I wanted to talk about when I first become the MP for Taunton,

:55:32.:55:37.

one of the first people who came to see meat came to my surgery the

:55:38.:55:42.

desperate story of how their whole life had been blighted by being

:55:43.:55:46.

treated inadvertently with infected blood like so many other examples we

:55:47.:55:53.

have here today. I was rather naive, having never engaged in anything

:55:54.:55:56.

like this before and I was very shocked by the whole experience.

:55:57.:56:03.

Having been given the infected blood, and then plagued the whole of

:56:04.:56:07.

his life. It was not just that he was ill. His all quality of life was

:56:08.:56:16.

affected. What resonated most was it affected his haul relationship with

:56:17.:56:19.

his son. He could not spend enough time with him. One thing we all take

:56:20.:56:29.

for granted as parents, some sort of inheritance, for a car or a better

:56:30.:56:34.

financial help, but he was distraught because he thought he had

:56:35.:56:40.

not done justice to his son because he was so ill he had a problem

:56:41.:56:44.

holding down continuous employment. He was also carried this with him

:56:45.:56:52.

for the whole of his life. There were two practical concerns she

:56:53.:56:57.

raised about the system, where we have tried to help. One was

:56:58.:57:03.

financial support, which was not sufficient for him to feel secure

:57:04.:57:08.

and he was constantly struggling. Secondly, the scheme which

:57:09.:57:15.

administered as payment has been referred to by colleagues today was

:57:16.:57:18.

not working it effectively and not adequately supporting those designed

:57:19.:57:24.

to help. I have spoken on this issue number of times before as real as

:57:25.:57:30.

making recommendations to the Department of Health. The government

:57:31.:57:33.

have listened and this autumn and new single scheme I absolutely

:57:34.:57:41.

welcome with the additional funding of ?125 million. That is being made

:57:42.:57:47.

available and will replace the complicated system of five support

:57:48.:57:52.

schemes. The devil will be in the detail. But I know the government

:57:53.:57:56.

will be taking into consideration all the comments from the

:57:57.:57:59.

consultation and hopefully this will either note some of the problems

:58:00.:58:01.

that people have been struggling with and will make life better for

:58:02.:58:03.

the victims. I am pleased as well with the move

:58:04.:58:12.

is the government has taken over the whole issue of transparency, also

:58:13.:58:15.

much referred to today in the chamber. I do appreciate that asks a

:58:16.:58:21.

very serious questions about how this has been handled in the past,

:58:22.:58:27.

and from now on in I know that ministers are keen to make sure they

:58:28.:58:30.

will make all information readily available. This has been promised in

:58:31.:58:40.

the enquiry. I am very grateful for her to give way because I have a

:58:41.:58:46.

constituent also affected by a contaminated blood since the 1960s

:58:47.:58:50.

and he will be delighted that this public enquiry is coming forward

:58:51.:58:55.

because he wants to know why it has happened stop and he wants to know

:58:56.:59:00.

how he can get exact access to compensation, and that transparency

:59:01.:59:04.

is absolutely vital in this case. I couldn't agree more. Transparency

:59:05.:59:11.

really must and should be at Slaley at the heart of this enquiry. I know

:59:12.:59:17.

that is very important for my constituency but also for my

:59:18.:59:21.

constituent, but also to all those up the country who have had their

:59:22.:59:25.

lives changed for ever to no photo of their own. That is what we must

:59:26.:59:28.

remember, nothing put upon themselves. To wind up, I really do

:59:29.:59:32.

want to thank the government for listening. And giving this

:59:33.:59:37.

attention. Having the issue the attention it really deserves. Also,

:59:38.:59:41.

for more than doubling the Department annual spend in this

:59:42.:59:47.

area, let's make that funding simple, and let's really make it

:59:48.:59:50.

gets to the people that really need it. More importantly, I thank the

:59:51.:59:55.

government for announcing this enquiry and I will be able to go

:59:56.:59:58.

back to my constituent that I mentioned at the beginning of my

:59:59.:00:01.

speech and give him a further glimmer of hope. A colour that the

:00:02.:00:07.

Prime Minister has understood and will listen and has called the

:00:08.:00:12.

enquiry and beacon that we will get the enquiry right. Public enquiries

:00:13.:00:16.

are rare events and we need is to ensure this work. New evidence will

:00:17.:00:20.

emerge, and that will be made available and I urge all relevant

:00:21.:00:24.

and commercially sensitive documents are made available, and with the

:00:25.:00:28.

right framework, progress can be done, and Madame Debbie gives the

:00:29.:00:32.

guy hope that the right thing will be done at last. And I urge the

:00:33.:00:36.

Minister for this enquiry above all not to drag on. Because for those

:00:37.:00:44.

who have suffered, too long already time unfortunately is of the

:00:45.:00:51.

essence. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I wanted to speak today on

:00:52.:00:55.

behalf of my constituents Lynne Ashcroft and the Smith family who I

:00:56.:01:01.

will come onto later, who were both victims of the contaminated blood

:01:02.:01:05.

scandal. I would like to congratulate my honourable friend

:01:06.:01:10.

from Oxford eased for an excellent maiden speech and you quite rightly

:01:11.:01:17.

highlighted from the campaign is in her local constituency the

:01:18.:01:20.

importance of this issue. I look forward to more speeches. I would

:01:21.:01:25.

also adds to the tribute of the Honourable friend from Kingston and

:01:26.:01:31.

whole north. We have this debate here today because of her, she has

:01:32.:01:34.

worked absolutely tirelessly with Honourable members, and indeed it is

:01:35.:01:39.

a parliamentary life well spent on this issue if not all the other

:01:40.:01:44.

things I know she has campaigned on. She has done it for the victims, and

:01:45.:01:48.

welcoming the announcement in the public enquiry today by the

:01:49.:01:52.

government I would be very much in agreement with mountable friend that

:01:53.:01:54.

it is important for the families this. This has been a long, long

:01:55.:02:01.

time coming will stop we have failed this community many times and they

:02:02.:02:05.

need to be at the heart of it and have confidence in this public

:02:06.:02:09.

enquiry. Because it is absolutely shameful really that 45 years since

:02:10.:02:14.

the first people were infected with HIV and hepatitis from NHS supplied

:02:15.:02:21.

contaminated blood, still we have not got to the truth for the

:02:22.:02:24.

community affected who have been left so often out but still come

:02:25.:02:27.

here lured endlessly to lobby and cause manages to -- fight for

:02:28.:02:35.

justice. I pray tribute to their strength. I am struck, I remember a

:02:36.:02:40.

family telling me not long ago that in the end they had used up going to

:02:41.:02:43.

the funerals of the friends that they had made as part of this

:02:44.:02:48.

campaign because it just got too heartbreaking. There were just too

:02:49.:02:51.

many funerals to go to. And I think that is really sad. And as the

:02:52.:02:57.

Honourable member said in his last speech said there is plenty of new

:02:58.:03:04.

evidence that's backs up what campaigners have known in their

:03:05.:03:08.

bones. The risks were known at the time and still used. People are used

:03:09.:03:14.

for testing and guinea pigs and efforts were made to surpass that

:03:15.:03:19.

truth, and these people went to the NHS for treatment and were infected

:03:20.:03:23.

by blood provided by the NHS, provided by the state and they have

:03:24.:03:26.

had to fight for years for this to be acknowledged. Mole -- are no

:03:27.:03:31.

fault has been admitted by the pharmaceutical companies or the

:03:32.:03:37.

government. No one could have known at the time about the problem with

:03:38.:03:41.

this blood, is what has been said. Through the work of the campaign we

:03:42.:03:45.

now have the new evidence that it was known, which is why the enquiry

:03:46.:03:49.

must start now so we can get to the truth once and for all. The

:03:50.:03:53.

Honourable member for whole north said of the 2400 people who have

:03:54.:03:58.

died, thousand Moors had their lives wrecked. I want to talk about one

:03:59.:04:03.

Colin Smith from Newport from my constituency. One of the youngest

:04:04.:04:05.

victims of the contaminated blood scandal. And illustrates just why

:04:06.:04:09.

this enquiry can't come quickly enough. Colin went into Hospital in

:04:10.:04:19.

1983, at eight months, for a minor it condition and received factor

:04:20.:04:24.

eight as a haemophiliac, a freedom of information request reveals that

:04:25.:04:32.

the factor came from a risen batch in Arkansas. He died in 1990. The

:04:33.:04:36.

family didn't know he had hepatitis C until three years after his death,

:04:37.:04:40.

kept secret as so much was hidden, and I hope this is look that in the

:04:41.:04:45.

enquiry because people like Haydn Lewis, my honourable friend the

:04:46.:04:50.

member for Cardiff Central mentioned earlier had to battle and battle to

:04:51.:04:53.

find this information. Colin died aged seven and weighs just about the

:04:54.:05:01.

same as a baby. I have talked about his story before in this chamber,

:05:02.:05:05.

but telling these stories is such an important reminder of why here

:05:06.:05:09.

today. It is also an important reason for having the public enquiry

:05:10.:05:13.

because we now know as Colin's family knew in their hearts, I

:05:14.:05:19.

think, for many years, but since is outlined in panorama and privatise

:05:20.:05:23.

it recently and the light on haemophilia specialists in 1983

:05:24.:05:27.

reported that following his minor incident, and I quote from the

:05:28.:05:30.

letter gone without any evidence of intracranial bleed the child, still

:05:31.:05:35.

given factor eight. The specialists added that all the materials carried

:05:36.:05:39.

the risk of hepatitis but this is something that haemophiliacs have to

:05:40.:05:42.

accept. He said he would keep Colin and the close observation as months

:05:43.:05:47.

go by. Six years later after Colin had died the same specialist wrote

:05:48.:05:51.

to the pharmaceutical companies saying he could no longer survive

:05:52.:05:55.

more samples because Colin was no longer at his facility. Colin's

:05:56.:05:58.

family were never aware of this until much later. This and other

:05:59.:06:04.

evidence need to be brought before the public enquiries that witnesses

:06:05.:06:13.

can be compensated and evidence disclosed, because this evidence

:06:14.:06:21.

evidence points to profit-making American companies go on air

:06:22.:06:26.

evidence known in the 90s, are three years before and Colin was given

:06:27.:06:30.

tainted blood. Thousands of people like Colin didn't make this far. He

:06:31.:06:34.

never had the chance to join the Cubs, play football for school than

:06:35.:06:37.

I have a girlfriend, go travelling or get married, instead in his short

:06:38.:06:42.

life revolved around hospital doctors and illnesses and he was

:06:43.:06:47.

just a little boy but a very special one, who we at tainted blood keep in

:06:48.:06:51.

mind as we campaign. He is in my mind because everyday in my

:06:52.:06:55.

constituency at home I drive past the Smith's house often, with my

:06:56.:06:59.

eight-year-old son sat in the car next to me, and I imagine how I

:07:00.:07:03.

would feel if this had to me. I would say to the Minister, would I

:07:04.:07:10.

have been if there was a public apology, the limiting financial

:07:11.:07:12.

support which people felt they have had to beg for, or would I want to

:07:13.:07:18.

finally get to the truth? Nothing can bring back Colin or others but

:07:19.:07:23.

we can at least have a public enquiry to get this right because

:07:24.:07:27.

and we need to get it right, this time, because Colin's family and

:07:28.:07:31.

others have been through so much over the years that we cannot let

:07:32.:07:34.

them down again. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is a pleasure to

:07:35.:07:40.

follow the member for Newport News and heavy reflection she has brought

:07:41.:07:45.

and again, the personal stories. This is what brought me to the issue

:07:46.:07:50.

two years ago, when first elected, someone came into my office heavily

:07:51.:07:54.

disabled, someone who should have been fit and healthy and relatively

:07:55.:07:58.

young, not that much older than myself but instead have had their

:07:59.:08:02.

whole lives dominated by a series of treatments received back in the

:08:03.:08:06.

1980s. The point I want to make is it is not an issue of a people

:08:07.:08:10.

having a couple of opportunities away, losing a couple of quid or

:08:11.:08:14.

working a bit longer to be able to finally retire, this is people who

:08:15.:08:18.

who have had literally their whole lives going reasonably taken away.

:08:19.:08:22.

Opportunities removed, and for many, this is touched two and a half

:08:23.:08:26.

thousand people, the end of their life. This treatment programme

:08:27.:08:33.

should help cure them. Doctors wouldn't be able to in an operating

:08:34.:08:37.

theatre in a hospital look at every single thing they do, they had to

:08:38.:08:42.

rely on those agencies that that things as safe, and certify things

:08:43.:08:46.

as safe, and clearly in this issue there was a huge failure. I'm

:08:47.:08:51.

pleased to see their progress has been over the last couple of years

:08:52.:08:55.

was when I first spoke on this I suspect my predecessor when he was

:08:56.:08:59.

elected in 1997 wouldn't have suspected his successor in 2015 to

:09:00.:09:04.

still be talking about this issue. It is very welcome that we've all

:09:05.:09:07.

finally have a public enquiry to look at the exact leak what went

:09:08.:09:15.

wrong. The minister said there will be genuine consultation around in

:09:16.:09:17.

terms of reference and those consultations will be the diary that

:09:18.:09:21.

like a very important. There is evidence of criminal wondering, I am

:09:22.:09:25.

clear that nothing done in the enquiry should prevent those people

:09:26.:09:28.

being held potentially to account for the criminal liability in a

:09:29.:09:33.

court of law. It will be a pity if the enquiry that finally brought

:09:34.:09:36.

about justice and finally got answers was then the one that

:09:37.:09:39.

prevented people from being hands to account criminally. The Bariloche is

:09:40.:09:46.

be drawn with the Hillsborough enquiry, and everything that has

:09:47.:09:49.

followed from that and hopefully in the system thing will happen if this

:09:50.:09:53.

is established that there is evidence there and I think we will

:09:54.:09:57.

all join the cause for anything made that anyone with evidence should

:09:58.:10:00.

handed over to the police immediately, certainly should not be

:10:01.:10:03.

withholding anything that would be interesting to the identification of

:10:04.:10:07.

whether people need to be held to account in now way. I think it is

:10:08.:10:11.

right that there is proper consultation on what form the

:10:12.:10:15.

enquiry takes. Certainly I do think that we need to have some form of

:10:16.:10:19.

ability to compel people to take part, and to provide some evidence

:10:20.:10:23.

and I was reassured to hear the Minister consider those issues quite

:10:24.:10:26.

carefully because that could Mike quite a difference because if there

:10:27.:10:30.

is knowledge that the potential criminal sanctions are available,

:10:31.:10:33.

people can take the option not to take part, but may have a real

:10:34.:10:37.

impact in getting to the truth of what has happened. In terms of

:10:38.:10:42.

getting to those answers it is appropriate that there is some form

:10:43.:10:46.

of limit in time, and we can all think of examples public enquiries

:10:47.:10:49.

that have taken very long periods of time, at that seems to drag out for

:10:50.:10:53.

ever and it has been touched on already, people had to wait decades

:10:54.:10:57.

for this to happen. There is a limit to how much longer than many of

:10:58.:11:00.

those victims will actually be able to wait before the final answer as

:11:01.:11:03.

to what happens to them and also in many cases for children of families

:11:04.:11:07.

of those who have already passed on who wants to find out what happened

:11:08.:11:12.

before they pass on themselves. Very briefly giving way. I'm grateful for

:11:13.:11:23.

him. The member will be aware that the premise the recently announced

:11:24.:11:27.

wisely that the government was going to introduce an independent public

:11:28.:11:32.

advocate for public disasters. Wouldn't it be wholly appropriate

:11:33.:11:41.

for the brave families -- braved families in this difficult case,

:11:42.:11:44.

right across the country and the UK to have this independent public

:11:45.:11:47.

advocate appointed in time to represent them. I thank her for her

:11:48.:11:53.

intervention, making a powerful point and I'm sure the ministers

:11:54.:11:57.

that on the bench will have heard it and others wishing to consider those

:11:58.:12:00.

boys as part of the conservation will be forthcoming around how the

:12:01.:12:04.

enquiry is structured and how victims are represented. I can

:12:05.:12:08.

imagine, given what their experience has been over the last year they may

:12:09.:12:11.

have strong views about whether it is a statement or appointed

:12:12.:12:15.

personally or how old they are represented is important to be

:12:16.:12:20.

consulted with them. Perhaps not on the floor of this house but all

:12:21.:12:24.

representation will be considered carefully to ensure they can be

:12:25.:12:27.

appropriately represented. Certainly, my own constituency there

:12:28.:12:30.

has been the ladies constantly raising the matter with me.

:12:31.:12:38.

They have been determined to pursue this matter and to find the answers

:12:39.:12:49.

and justice. Berger has been in touch to ask about when the

:12:50.:12:54.

compensation payments would be made. We are looking about how we can

:12:55.:12:57.

bring all the issues, as well as finding the answers about what

:12:58.:13:03.

happened all these years ago. I welcome this payment congratulate

:13:04.:13:11.

the member for Kingston-Upon-Hull for her parachute of this and

:13:12.:13:15.

security team -- securing the debate. I hope we can finally get

:13:16.:13:20.

the answer is that those who have suffered for too long deserved and

:13:21.:13:35.

deserve. Congratulations, Madam Deputy Speaker. I think the member

:13:36.:13:42.

for Oxford East for her maiden speech and her powerful

:13:43.:13:48.

representation of the people within her constituency. It would be

:13:49.:14:00.

appropriate that I also mention my friend for Kingston-Upon-Hull. There

:14:01.:14:07.

are over 111 members of the all-party group who have supported

:14:08.:14:14.

her to get to the bottom of the real effects of the causes of this

:14:15.:14:18.

scandal and recompense those who have suffered as a result. In the

:14:19.:14:25.

short time I have got a bit like to comment on these issues. There are

:14:26.:14:30.

two clear ones. One is the history of why this happened and what could

:14:31.:14:36.

be done to prevent it and who is liable and responsible. There is

:14:37.:14:45.

also what the state does to those who have no gleam in this matter

:14:46.:14:49.

what support is given to those people who are now facing so many

:14:50.:14:55.

challenges a result of this scandal. I do not expect to minister to be

:14:56.:14:59.

able to answer those questions today because it is clear that the effort

:15:00.:15:05.

of my honourable friend and other honourable members and it has been

:15:06.:15:11.

said by six Party leaders has focused the government mind on how

:15:12.:15:16.

to respond to this issue. It is important that we do challenge the

:15:17.:15:22.

form of the enquiry. The Welsh government in Cardiff called for a

:15:23.:15:29.

public enquiry in January. I am surely would be interested in having

:15:30.:15:35.

the support of the house for the response. I raise the issue because

:15:36.:15:40.

like all honourable members who have talked today, I have constituents

:15:41.:15:45.

who have had the impact of the contaminated blood scandal

:15:46.:15:48.

throughout their lives for the past 30 years. The wish to remain

:15:49.:15:53.

anonymous, but in meeting them, I can see the impact on their lives.

:15:54.:16:02.

Not just the trauma of seeing people infected at the same team who have

:16:03.:16:06.

died in large numbers, but also the fact that people cannot get

:16:07.:16:11.

insurance, cannot maintain stable employment and the problems of the

:16:12.:16:17.

actual live and how long we're going to love. Practicalities, of

:16:18.:16:26.

constituents with young children. The gentleman is making a powerful

:16:27.:16:32.

case. There are a lot of people who have not been catered for Judy, who

:16:33.:16:37.

were badly affected, such as my constituents who have died. The

:16:38.:16:46.

children ended up any children's home and had the lives devastated.

:16:47.:16:51.

The problems have not been addressed. My constituents are still

:16:52.:16:55.

alive and are concerned about what will happen to the in the event of

:16:56.:17:00.

the day. They are worried about the lack of insurance and the cost to

:17:01.:17:08.

the lives as a whole. The wreckers that they had have been lost by the

:17:09.:17:16.

state. There are difficulties that they may not be able to hold the

:17:17.:17:19.

government liable for because these records have disappeared. That is

:17:20.:17:25.

one of the problems facing the enquiry. With regard to talk that

:17:26.:17:33.

this was the United Kingdom wakened enquiry. This happened before devil

:17:34.:17:40.

you should. I have constituents in Wales who were affected in

:17:41.:17:44.

Liverpool. I have constituents living in Wales who were affected in

:17:45.:17:50.

Wales. It is important that we look at that as a whole. I would be

:17:51.:17:55.

interested in the minister's ultimate discussion on the terms of

:17:56.:18:01.

reference as to how he will involve devolved administrations. He has

:18:02.:18:05.

given some indication to date, but also what the terms of reference

:18:06.:18:09.

will be of how the consultation will take place. I know that my

:18:10.:18:15.

constituents will want to be reassured who is responsible, what

:18:16.:18:18.

happened, what can be done and whether there is any compensation to

:18:19.:18:24.

help them meet their very real challenges such as those mentioned

:18:25.:18:28.

by the honourable member in his speech. Even we have the

:18:29.:18:32.

Hillsborough style enquiry, it is important that the Minister in due

:18:33.:18:40.

course, sets out clearly not just the terms of reference but also the

:18:41.:18:45.

terms of engagement. I was going to make the point myself that, to be

:18:46.:18:55.

frank, the people I represent are trying to get on with their lives.

:18:56.:18:59.

They have had something happened to them when they were very young which

:19:00.:19:03.

they have had no control over. They want to try and get on with their

:19:04.:19:08.

lives. I would think it would be very helpful if the government set

:19:09.:19:14.

out how we could live victims could engage with the enquiry. Not just in

:19:15.:19:21.

terms of the organisations, such as the haemophiliacs society, but

:19:22.:19:24.

people who may not be involved in any organisation. But whether people

:19:25.:19:33.

could be supported financially of that is required for representation.

:19:34.:19:39.

And be able to put the case effectively to the enquiry. I am

:19:40.:19:49.

pleased to speak on this occasion. Very briefly picking up on that

:19:50.:19:57.

point. A constituent of mine called Michael wants justice but also wants

:19:58.:20:04.

justice involving all the families engaged in shaping this Hillsborough

:20:05.:20:08.

still style enquiry. We welcome the enquiry. They are impatient for

:20:09.:20:20.

justice. I am grateful for the intervention. The point I was

:20:21.:20:27.

finishing on, unless the Minister wishes to intervene. Just briefly, I

:20:28.:20:34.

would like to remind the Honourable gentleman that after making very

:20:35.:20:38.

important point, it is our intention to contact all of the families who

:20:39.:20:45.

are in touch through the various schemes to register today's

:20:46.:20:49.

announcement so the will have an opportunity to determine the best

:20:50.:20:53.

form of enquiry. On his second point, once the enquiry is

:20:54.:20:58.

established, it will be going to the enquiry itself as to how it engages

:20:59.:21:03.

with the people and it will obviously be interested in advice

:21:04.:21:09.

given by members of the house. Thank you. That helps reassure me on

:21:10.:21:17.

behalf of my constituents. I simply see to the Minister, in making the

:21:18.:21:22.

announcement today, the key thing for the future is confidence and

:21:23.:21:26.

transparency and to ensure that people can feel they can have the

:21:27.:21:30.

opinion here, the points they wish to boot I put properly and

:21:31.:21:36.

effectively and it is essential to have some sort of timescale so that

:21:37.:21:41.

they know how long of their lives this is going to take. And he

:21:42.:21:46.

informed the host of any budget set up for the enquiry, the things we

:21:47.:21:53.

would expect of any enquiry to take place, because that will help

:21:54.:21:56.

reassure people that the government is responding not just two events

:21:57.:22:04.

but also getting a positive outcome for the innocent victims of the

:22:05.:22:09.

national scandal. I think the -- I hope the Minister can keep the house

:22:10.:22:15.

informed but also keep the victims informed, because at the end of the

:22:16.:22:18.

day, it is the lives in future and the uncertainties they have deserved

:22:19.:22:31.

passionate support. I do not want to impose a formal time-limit, but I

:22:32.:22:35.

would ask members to try and keep to four minutes and in that way I will

:22:36.:22:39.

not have to impose any claim restrictions. I join other members

:22:40.:22:48.

in paying tribute to all those affected by this terrible tragedy,

:22:49.:22:53.

the families, the victims and friends and other people within the

:22:54.:22:56.

salaries, especially the Honourable member for Kingston-Upon-Hull and

:22:57.:23:06.

Stratford-upon-Avon. And also the Honourable new member for Oxford

:23:07.:23:13.

East. I am speaking today to give a voice to my constituent who wishes

:23:14.:23:19.

to remain anonymous. He was born with haemophilia. He had to endure

:23:20.:23:25.

this terrible chronic condition and for the condition has in fact

:23:26.:23:31.

poisoned pen. He has been infected with both HIV and hepatitis C. They

:23:32.:23:42.

have given him a life of pain, of serious medication which has their

:23:43.:23:47.

own major side-effects, major surgery. And the constant weight

:23:48.:23:55.

that must be on his mind on those who love him every day of his life,

:23:56.:24:02.

because this tragedy has affected every day of his life and affected

:24:03.:24:09.

his life in every single aspect, from his marriage to his ability to

:24:10.:24:14.

work, to his family. He told me recently that he and his wife have

:24:15.:24:23.

told the grown-up child of his condition and of his infections

:24:24.:24:27.

because as he said to me, when is the right time to deal your child

:24:28.:24:35.

that you have HIV and hepatitis C? My constituent welcomes today's

:24:36.:24:41.

remark on an enquiry. He wants a Hillsborough style enquiry because

:24:42.:24:45.

he says people affected by this do not have time on the side. I must

:24:46.:24:54.

declare an interest because as a barrister, I hope this public

:24:55.:24:58.

enquiry will ensure that public money is directed towards those who

:24:59.:25:03.

need it most, namely the victims and their families, not one massively

:25:04.:25:13.

expensive tribunal 's costs. I put that out to other colleagues of mine

:25:14.:25:19.

in the profession. Finally, I am conscious of the wish of other

:25:20.:25:24.

colleagues to speak. I would like to talk about these school photograph

:25:25.:25:30.

my constituent brought into the surgery. It was a typical school

:25:31.:25:37.

photograph. This one was different. It showed my constituent and his

:25:38.:25:44.

class at a special school he had to go to because of his condition. Eat

:25:45.:25:51.

of the pupils had haemophilia. Four of them are no dead as a result of

:25:52.:25:56.

contaminated blood infections. Another one is so ill that in his

:25:57.:26:05.

early 50s, he is forced to live in a specialist home because of the

:26:06.:26:11.

condition of his body. My constituent, like thousands of

:26:12.:26:14.

others we have heard of, other victims of the terrible episode.

:26:15.:26:21.

They have fought for justice for 30 years and I would like to thank this

:26:22.:26:26.

Prime Minister and this government for listening and for acting. I very

:26:27.:26:35.

much hope this enquiry delivers for them. It is the first time I ever

:26:36.:26:44.

had the pleasure of speaking to the house when you have been the chamber

:26:45.:26:48.

and I will commute your position. I think the Honourable member for

:26:49.:26:53.

being able to secure this really important debate. It was a pleasure

:26:54.:27:00.

to be in the chamber when we hear the maiden speech by the Oxford East

:27:01.:27:07.

member. I congratulate her. I will not take up too much time in this

:27:08.:27:11.

house in this debate, but what I wanted to do was to draw the

:27:12.:27:15.

attention of the house to a constituent of mine. It is a case I

:27:16.:27:24.

have raised here before. I have spoken on this issue on a number of

:27:25.:27:30.

different occasions. My constituent is someone who has been

:27:31.:27:33.

communicating with me for more than two years. She was, as one of my

:27:34.:27:40.

other colleagues were seeing, one of the first people to come to me after

:27:41.:27:44.

my election in 2015 to raise this issue. It was one of the first cases

:27:45.:27:52.

I took to Parliament. As other parliaments -- colleagues have said,

:27:53.:27:55.

I have to admit to shame, because I was not aware of the background to

:27:56.:27:59.

the story until I hear the testimony.

:28:00.:28:04.

I'm going to read part of an e-mail from Sue yesterday when it was clear

:28:05.:28:11.

the emergency debate was going to happen, I have been in constant

:28:12.:28:14.

touch with her. She asked me briefly to share with the house her story

:28:15.:28:18.

because it says in more powerful words I think that anyone else could

:28:19.:28:24.

I it is so important that we have this full, public enquiry. At the

:28:25.:28:27.

time, of course, we were not aware of the government announcement which

:28:28.:28:32.

I warmly welcome, and pay tribute to not only my honourable friend the

:28:33.:28:36.

Minister for health but also the Prime Minister for driving this

:28:37.:28:40.

forward. Let me share with you what Sue broke to me in this e-mail

:28:41.:28:46.

yesterday. My husband Bob died in 1991, aged 47. Spite being a severe

:28:47.:28:52.

haemophiliac he had lived a relatively normal life until he was

:28:53.:28:56.

given commercial blood products. Following that his health and his

:28:57.:29:02.

life followed a deep and dark spiral downhill. He contracted hepatitis B

:29:03.:29:08.

can see, and HIV. He died a terrible death which I believe was totally

:29:09.:29:12.

avoidable. He was never informed about the risks known at the time of

:29:13.:29:17.

imported factor eight. He was never told he had hepatitis C, and indeed

:29:18.:29:21.

I only found out myself a few years ago. His HIV test result was

:29:22.:29:27.

withheld from us for many months thus leaving me at risk. I was

:29:28.:29:33.

fortunate that many other women were not. -- but many women were not. A

:29:34.:29:38.

few days before he died, a few months later, shattering on his

:29:39.:29:43.

lungs, contracting pneumonia he was left untreated. He never had the

:29:44.:29:49.

chance to see his eldest son marry nor meet his grandchildren. He

:29:50.:29:54.

didn't see his little son graduate from university. He didn't see his

:29:55.:29:58.

youngest son passed the 11 plus and go to grammar school. Following his

:29:59.:30:03.

death, our family basically fell apart. Grief sent us in different

:30:04.:30:08.

directions, and for many years we were completely broken. The fallout

:30:09.:30:13.

is still there today bubbling away just below the surface. It is my

:30:14.:30:21.

firm opinion, soothe freckle writes, in conclusion, following campaigning

:30:22.:30:28.

and research, human beings were acting as guinea pigs. Had people

:30:29.:30:31.

acted differently at the time Bob and so many others would almost

:30:32.:30:37.

certainly being alive and well today. Now, I've found my

:30:38.:30:43.

constituent's e-mail extremely moving and I repeat her words to the

:30:44.:30:47.

house today because I think it says is better than any other rest of us

:30:48.:30:50.

could why the decision that has been taken by the government to hold this

:30:51.:30:56.

public enquiry is so welcome. I will be following very carefully this

:30:57.:31:00.

process as it goes through to ensure that the form of the enquiry is the

:31:01.:31:05.

best that it can be, so that fixed in and survivors like my constituent

:31:06.:31:10.

can get the truth and fairness and justice they deserve. Thank you. I

:31:11.:31:19.

would first like to start by echoing what has been said by so many in

:31:20.:31:22.

paying tribute to the victims of this tragedy, their families and

:31:23.:31:25.

those many honourable members who have campaigned tirelessly for such

:31:26.:31:29.

a long time to ensure this public enquiry takes place and also to my

:31:30.:31:33.

Prime Minister who after so many people have not have listened to

:31:34.:31:38.

these concerns and has organised this formal public enquiry. As a

:31:39.:31:44.

doctor I prescribe blood products that continued every day for people

:31:45.:31:48.

not often in a position to make decisions. I have prescribe babies

:31:49.:31:59.

blood, born prematurely, and those with cancer, not being able to make

:32:00.:32:05.

their own cases. This is an issue of trust. It is important that when

:32:06.:32:10.

people go into hospital and receive treatment that they are able to

:32:11.:32:14.

trust that the risk and benefit and decision that is being made with

:32:15.:32:20.

them, whether they are small or very unwell, on their behalf, is done

:32:21.:32:23.

with facts and information available. In this case that appears

:32:24.:32:28.

not to have been the case. People knew that HIV, hepatitis were

:32:29.:32:33.

transmittable through blood products. And yet, despite that,

:32:34.:32:38.

that information was not being made aware to those people receiving

:32:39.:32:45.

them. And that the blood had not been properly screened and even at

:32:46.:32:48.

the time as I understand it when blood was being screened elsewhere

:32:49.:32:52.

objects were being used on people in the UK. I want to thank her for

:32:53.:32:59.

giving way because trust the key word there, trust and faith to have

:33:00.:33:05.

that in the enquiry and my constituent, every story is

:33:06.:33:09.

different, is a twin, is other twin isn't here, and on the hop off and

:33:10.:33:12.

he wants to have trust in the enquiry, once victims to be heard,

:33:13.:33:17.

and then deciding the remit and also issuing the evidence taken from

:33:18.:33:20.

them. She agreed that that is the way to get trust? I thank her for

:33:21.:33:29.

that intervention. Absolutely I do. The victims and their families have

:33:30.:33:33.

the right, they deserve to know what happened. They deserve answers to

:33:34.:33:39.

the questions that they have they need to know when people knew that

:33:40.:33:43.

these by-products could be causing them harm, and if they did know why

:33:44.:33:47.

were they still given? The house should be under no allusion, as I'm

:33:48.:33:54.

sure off the many cases described by the members that they and the

:33:55.:33:57.

suffering that these people have gone through, losing their family

:33:58.:34:00.

members, the stigma still exists today of many of these medical

:34:01.:34:04.

condition that are particularly HIV, the risks that other people have

:34:05.:34:07.

been put to such as their wives, children. And the suffering that

:34:08.:34:13.

many still go through today with their poor health. I very much

:34:14.:34:20.

welcome the public enquiry and I hope it will get to the bottom of

:34:21.:34:24.

all the answers and I hope that those who have been victims have

:34:25.:34:29.

received the conversation they deserve. May I also join in

:34:30.:34:38.

welcoming you to your new role and I am absolutely delighted. I would

:34:39.:34:42.

like to congratulate the honourable member on her brilliant maiden

:34:43.:34:47.

speech. And finally paid tribute to the honourable member for Kingston

:34:48.:34:51.

and hole for being such a doughty champion of the issue in Parliament.

:34:52.:34:57.

The debate today has been conducted in a way recognised as being hugely

:34:58.:35:02.

positive, very constructive and that is what people would expect my

:35:03.:35:05.

people out there in the country expect us to carry out the debate in

:35:06.:35:08.

a responsible manner because this very much affects people's lives. I

:35:09.:35:13.

am acutely aware of that because of one of my constituents who has been

:35:14.:35:16.

caught up in this tragedy, a lady called Sue Watson, a local teacher,

:35:17.:35:21.

her husband a counsellor, they are friends and people I care very much

:35:22.:35:26.

about. I was shocked, rather like a number of the colleagues were when

:35:27.:35:29.

shortly after I was elected Sue and Peter asked me to go round to their

:35:30.:35:33.

house and they told me all about the things that they had gone through,

:35:34.:35:36.

and the difficulty that Sue was facing in trying to access the

:35:37.:35:43.

treatment that she so desperately needed, and so I know that Sue will

:35:44.:35:46.

be sat at home watching this debate this afternoon, welcoming this

:35:47.:35:52.

announcement, to no end. Because things have gone so disastrously

:35:53.:35:56.

wrong in the past, we need to get to the bottom of that. I think what was

:35:57.:36:00.

a particular shock to Sue is that after 30 years she was diagnosed as

:36:01.:36:05.

having this condition. It was a bombshell, sat marking books in her

:36:06.:36:08.

office at school when the telephone call came to tell her that she had

:36:09.:36:15.

got this condition. And I think what is most welcome about the

:36:16.:36:18.

announcement today is the fact that there is this firm commitment to

:36:19.:36:21.

ensure that the victims of this tragedy are properly listens to,

:36:22.:36:26.

that they have a real involvement in shaping the enquiry and there are

:36:27.:36:31.

lessons that can be learnt from what has happened in relation to

:36:32.:36:34.

Hillsborough, it doesn't surprise me in the site is that the Prime

:36:35.:36:37.

Minister is so committed to addressing this issue, we have seen

:36:38.:36:40.

her take up a number of injustices and Hillsborough is one of those

:36:41.:36:46.

examples. We can get the bottom of what has happened in this particular

:36:47.:36:51.

tragedy, and the victims how they are affected on a day-to-day basis,

:36:52.:36:55.

the consequences on their family, and they should be listens to and

:36:56.:36:58.

should help to shape the enquiry. One key point I suspect we'll come

:36:59.:37:02.

up in all of these discussions in the weeks and months ahead is this

:37:03.:37:07.

issue of access to treatment, and fortunately for time to time NHS

:37:08.:37:12.

bureaucracy does get in the way. -- unfortunately Brock as he gets in

:37:13.:37:18.

the way. For Sue, it was a multitude of drama in getting the treatment

:37:19.:37:24.

that she so desperately needed. I am grateful to ministers in particular

:37:25.:37:27.

for all of their efforts in helping to go about achieving that. One

:37:28.:37:33.

thing that I was remember Sue saying to me, when we first had that early

:37:34.:37:36.

conversation was she said I'm not worried about compensation, I just

:37:37.:37:41.

want to get better, and I think that there is a lot of all of that. These

:37:42.:37:45.

are all issues the public enquiry needs to address. I welcome this

:37:46.:37:50.

very much and look forward to the debates. Thank you Madam Deputy

:37:51.:37:56.

Speaker. Like others I welcome you to your position in the chamber

:37:57.:38:01.

today but would also like to put on record my thanks to the honourable

:38:02.:38:06.

lady for Kingston upon Hull North for bringing the debate forward

:38:07.:38:10.

today, and in the short time I have been a member of the space I have

:38:11.:38:17.

been struck by her determination and perseverance in bringing forward the

:38:18.:38:19.

campaign. An issue that quite clearly Madam Deputy Speaker cuts

:38:20.:38:22.

right across both sides of this chamber. I would just like to add my

:38:23.:38:28.

thanks also and recognition to all of those members who are not in the

:38:29.:38:32.

chamber to date, those who perhaps have moved on following the election

:38:33.:38:36.

who have also played a part in this campaign, and of course David

:38:37.:38:40.

Cameron who at his last prime ministers questioned said they

:38:41.:38:43.

wanted more to be done on this very important this you. This is an

:38:44.:38:48.

important matter that too many of the people here and outside, we have

:38:49.:38:53.

heard today, many constituents have been affected, and are still

:38:54.:38:57.

affected today. It is an issue that was brought to my attention first

:38:58.:39:00.

about a year ago when constituent came to Mike and surgery. -- my

:39:01.:39:08.

surgery. We have heard about the victims and those suffering as a

:39:09.:39:11.

result of the contaminated blood but this lady came to raise the issue of

:39:12.:39:16.

support for the spouses of those who have died from contaminated blood.

:39:17.:39:24.

She had a number of questions, concerns, particularly around

:39:25.:39:26.

discretionary payments. She particularly wanted to know exactly

:39:27.:39:29.

what their position would be, and felt as though she was in limbo.

:39:30.:39:34.

Regarding monthly payments. Adam Deputy Speaker this is a tragedy and

:39:35.:39:40.

it means so much to so many as we have heard. People who through no

:39:41.:39:45.

fault of their own suddenly have found themselves in hardship and

:39:46.:39:50.

really suffering as a result of what has happened. As we know this

:39:51.:39:58.

tragedy goes back to the 1970s, 1980s, an issue that spans several

:39:59.:40:02.

governments, a long-running issue but for those families, the family

:40:03.:40:06.

in my constituency and those across the country, the other members here

:40:07.:40:11.

have raised today, it is still a priority for them and rightly so. I

:40:12.:40:15.

sense today that what we have heard from the Minister and from the Prime

:40:16.:40:20.

Minister in her statement that it is still a priority for the government

:40:21.:40:24.

as well. We should continue to providing support for those affected

:40:25.:40:30.

by this tragedy. I am very conscious of time, Madam Deputy Speaker so I

:40:31.:40:34.

will draw my comments to a close just by saying that I hope the

:40:35.:40:40.

enquiry does bring together all parties and to the benefit of

:40:41.:40:44.

families and victims, because there are still families wanting answers

:40:45.:40:48.

in a sense of inclusion and closure to this tragic issue. Thank you very

:40:49.:40:53.

much indeed Madam Deputy Speaker and I would like to welcome you to your

:40:54.:40:56.

place. I have a confession or apology I should make will stop when

:40:57.:41:01.

I was first briefed on this issue, I put it in the too difficult to deal

:41:02.:41:08.

with category. Maybe it was too niche, it was too much of the past,

:41:09.:41:15.

it lacked contemporary feel to it. I was wrong, and the honourable lady

:41:16.:41:22.

for whole north has proved the point today, she is to be congratulated. I

:41:23.:41:26.

had been reflecting, listening to this debate. So many of our

:41:27.:41:30.

constituents view this place through that very narrow prism of 30 minutes

:41:31.:41:37.

or so on a Wednesday. It shows parliament at its best stop

:41:38.:41:44.

cross-party, an interest in an issue coming together to try to find a

:41:45.:41:50.

solution. -- this is Parliament at its best. I welcome the words of the

:41:51.:41:56.

honourable lady for this issue, and the premise that as a number have

:41:57.:42:02.

pointed out, lots of ministers have just as lots of ministers listened

:42:03.:42:07.

to the tragedy of Hillsborough. My right honourable friend seemed to

:42:08.:42:13.

have something of her essence where she doesn't just listen but she

:42:14.:42:22.

decides to act in a fair, calm, sensible way, but always in the

:42:23.:42:26.

pursuit of justice for our constituents, and our fellow

:42:27.:42:27.

citizens. This speaks of a tame purse, for

:42:28.:42:45.

different procedures and techniques. It also predates the devolution

:42:46.:42:53.

settlement, which might give challenges to the enquiry going

:42:54.:42:57.

forward. But it is contemporary in terms of pain, suffering and anxiety

:42:58.:43:02.

that so many colleagues across the house of preference. I strongly

:43:03.:43:08.

welcome the decision to move towards a single payment scheme, to have

:43:09.:43:15.

five schemes and which to apply and to justify the needs, as my

:43:16.:43:23.

honourable friend for Stratford alluded to, adds an intolerable

:43:24.:43:33.

intolerable aspect of justice. Yes, the travesty of the ill-health

:43:34.:43:40.

placed upon sufferers from contaminated blood is not going to

:43:41.:43:50.

see greater financial costs, but also their lifestyle costs. I must

:43:51.:44:00.

confess, I am sanguine on a personal level whether this is the panel or a

:44:01.:44:08.

judge led enquiry. It has to be done in contact with those who have

:44:09.:44:17.

survived, to work out the best way. Time is not on the side of this and

:44:18.:44:24.

we must move forward quickly. This is a campaign which is festered for

:44:25.:44:29.

too long. I conclude by once again congratulating the member for

:44:30.:44:37.

Kingston-Upon-Hull and I hope those suffering today are in some way

:44:38.:44:41.

sustained and comforted in the hope of justice at the end of that

:44:42.:44:49.

trouble. I would like to thank the government for this announcement. I

:44:50.:44:53.

pay tribute to the Honourable members who have done much work over

:44:54.:44:58.

the years. Especially, the Honourable member for

:44:59.:45:05.

Kingston-Upon-Hull and the member for Stratford-upon-Avon who campaign

:45:06.:45:10.

for this when it was not fashionable. I have a sense of

:45:11.:45:14.

relief that the truth around the scandal will come out and I suspect

:45:15.:45:21.

some of it will make very difficult listening. I did not know whether to

:45:22.:45:26.

speak, but I did so after listening to some of the very moving

:45:27.:45:33.

experiences from members of my constituency. They have asked to be

:45:34.:45:38.

here today to listen to the debate. I have residents who have lived with

:45:39.:45:46.

this for some decades, including several who had illnesses connected

:45:47.:45:53.

to contaminated blood as young as nine years old. One of my

:45:54.:45:59.

constituents worry is not only about herself but other members of her

:46:00.:46:04.

family, but she said her life had been turned upside down by the

:46:05.:46:08.

contaminated blood case. She said my infection has caused me to suffer

:46:09.:46:14.

from a disabling and debilitating disease. You may be amazed to know

:46:15.:46:23.

that I was refused funding and anti-viral treatment by hepatitis C

:46:24.:46:30.

by NHS England and was obliged to buy it myself. Not only our resident

:46:31.:46:36.

suffering, but they feel the NHS, which write them down in the first

:46:37.:46:39.

place along with others, is not providing the support know which

:46:40.:46:44.

they should do. This concerns me. In light of the investigation and

:46:45.:46:54.

interested Party is important in making progress in our society. All

:46:55.:46:59.

these enquiries can be difficult. We have seen that in Hillsborough

:47:00.:47:03.

because that asks questions of those in authority. As one of my

:47:04.:47:11.

colleagues said, it also questions trust in the system and that people

:47:12.:47:17.

here are here to do the right thing to battle for the constituents.

:47:18.:47:23.

Summing up, all of us would want to know a series of questions. Some

:47:24.:47:28.

have been asked. There are two of the outstanding ones. If the

:47:29.:47:33.

Minister could at some point explained the difference between a

:47:34.:47:40.

statutory and Hillsborough type enquiry especially for constituents

:47:41.:47:45.

interest in participating, through the windows and families of those

:47:46.:47:51.

who have already died, 2400 of them, will be treated and how will the

:47:52.:47:56.

claims and financial claims be treated? Finally, the reassuring is

:47:57.:48:06.

of the potential criminal aspects have to be investigated to the

:48:07.:48:10.

ultimate conclusion, but can we be reassured that this will be as

:48:11.:48:14.

comprehensive as possible and will be time limited? I will commute to

:48:15.:48:22.

your post, Madam Deputy Speaker. I thank the Honourable member for

:48:23.:48:28.

Kingston-Upon-Hull for calling this debate and for her campaigning on

:48:29.:48:34.

this. I also congratulate the member for Oxford East at Forfar excellent

:48:35.:48:44.

maiden speech, the first of many contributions I am sure she will

:48:45.:48:48.

make. I congratulate the members who have been tireless advocates for the

:48:49.:48:55.

victims of this scandal and I speak on behalf of my constituent, Jackie

:48:56.:49:03.

Britton, who lives in Port Chester. We have met on several occasions.

:49:04.:49:10.

She has not given up on this fight. She contracted hepatitis C in 1982

:49:11.:49:16.

from a blood transfusion during childbirth. She was only diagnosed

:49:17.:49:22.

six years ago and for many years she has been inflicted with a

:49:23.:49:26.

debilitating illness and has been suffering for many years. Her

:49:27.:49:32.

daughter has also been very ill with previous medical conditions. I am

:49:33.:49:37.

sure she would welcome the news today about a public enquiry into

:49:38.:49:44.

this matter. It is clear that the government is seriously reflecting

:49:45.:49:49.

the concerns and the voices of those who have been tragically affected by

:49:50.:49:56.

this. This is the latest in action which has been taken on the part of

:49:57.:50:02.

this government over several years. The government has increased the

:50:03.:50:07.

amount of money spent on payments to victims to regularly levels since

:50:08.:50:15.

2016, with an additional ?125 million in support funding for those

:50:16.:50:19.

who need it. I am also pleased to come in and the last year has

:50:20.:50:25.

announced they were going to reform the package of support schemes for

:50:26.:50:34.

those affected. For the first time, almost 2500 beneficiaries, with

:50:35.:50:38.

chronic hepatitis C, we are eligible for an annual payment of ?3500 per

:50:39.:50:44.

year. That is progress and that is the result of listening and action

:50:45.:50:51.

on the part of the government. I will conclude my comments because I

:50:52.:50:56.

am a weir that others want to contribute. There is really nothing

:50:57.:51:00.

that anyone can do to change the past on this awful, awful incident

:51:01.:51:08.

and tragedy. But I do hope for the sake of Jackie and all those victims

:51:09.:51:14.

about whom we have heard today. That being quietly today and the process

:51:15.:51:22.

of discovering the truth of bringing to justice -- bringing some justice

:51:23.:51:29.

to those affected will bring some finality to this heartbreaking

:51:30.:51:33.

tragedy. Thank you for squeezing me in. For the many reasons explained

:51:34.:51:40.

in the many excellent speeches by members on both sides, I have been

:51:41.:51:44.

very impressed and pleased that the government have thought this through

:51:45.:51:49.

a fish, which is significant, given the previous enquiries. And the

:51:50.:51:53.

apology given by the Minister to date was an important step in

:51:54.:51:58.

appreciating -- it will be appreciated by the victims. The

:51:59.:52:04.

minister needs to consult on the form of the enquiry. He makes the

:52:05.:52:08.

rate decision to engage with the affected groups and I hope that

:52:09.:52:14.

there is an urgency forced into this process to move it forward so that

:52:15.:52:25.

we can help the victims. I think the enquiry should look at how we

:52:26.:52:27.

acquire these products in the first place, who is responsible for the

:52:28.:52:34.

period anyone in the United Kingdom became infected. This is a tragic

:52:35.:52:43.

story from time to finish. I congratulate those involved in the

:52:44.:52:47.

wider campaign to seek the truth. I congratulate the member for

:52:48.:52:54.

Kingston-Upon-Hull for calling this debate. There are variations in the

:52:55.:52:59.

interpretation of the facts and the history of the scandal. In the

:53:00.:53:03.

instance of one of my constituents, she felt elements of his infected

:53:04.:53:12.

file is medical notes had been removed from his medical records. As

:53:13.:53:23.

was noted in the 1991 HIV litigation, it has been removed.

:53:24.:53:27.

Attempts to retrieve this letter have field. His father was given a

:53:28.:53:38.

bad batch of Factor eight, but his father was not told until 1985,

:53:39.:53:43.

nearly two years later. Looking at this, I do not know the answer to

:53:44.:53:47.

these questions and I do not believe my constituent knows these, but it

:53:48.:53:52.

seems to me from discussions with them and from limited documentation

:53:53.:53:55.

I have seen that there are serious and horrific mistakes made which led

:53:56.:54:02.

to unimaginable consequences and it is very important we get to the

:54:03.:54:06.

truth of what happened. Efforts to deal with this issue today and there

:54:07.:54:11.

have been a number we need to recognise, have not satisfied the

:54:12.:54:15.

people concerned. The point is, many of the people affected by the

:54:16.:54:19.

tragedy, especially children and other family members, in any event,

:54:20.:54:26.

the do not feel they were ever be closure that they have included --

:54:27.:54:32.

until the included in the process. I hope the government will have the

:54:33.:54:38.

proper information, but the fact remains that is a clear disconnect

:54:39.:54:42.

between the meet various parties involved. As ever, it is not just

:54:43.:54:47.

what happens between the various parties or you can see fault, but

:54:48.:54:53.

the light of the flow of information after words which can not only make

:54:54.:54:57.

the original situation worse, but is immensely frustrating for the

:54:58.:55:02.

families. As has been explained by constituents, members of the

:55:03.:55:07.

fatherless generation action group, this is the scandal of epic

:55:08.:55:13.

proportions. I look forward to seeing continued progress on this.

:55:14.:55:19.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is delightful to see you in your new

:55:20.:55:27.

police. Can I congratulate the Honourable Lady for Oxford on her

:55:28.:55:31.

maiden speech. It was an excellent start and I am sure she will have a

:55:32.:55:36.

long career in the House of Commons. Today, we had from some very

:55:37.:55:43.

important contribute others in this debate. We were very moved by the

:55:44.:55:50.

contribution by my honourable friend for Newport East when she talked

:55:51.:55:54.

about the little boy who received contaminated blood products when he

:55:55.:56:03.

was young and died eventually of hepatitis C. It remains as it is

:56:04.:56:17.

boys and girls, husbands and wives, sons and daughters. Does she agree

:56:18.:56:23.

that these blood products should have been removed as soon as the

:56:24.:56:28.

risks about them became clear? That is one of the major points and it is

:56:29.:56:32.

one of the points at the I hope the enquiry will get to grips with. I

:56:33.:56:37.

would generally see to the Minister that we will not be going away on

:56:38.:56:41.

this. We will be following very carefully parliamentarians from all

:56:42.:56:46.

sides of the house as to how the consultation is taking place, who is

:56:47.:56:52.

consulted, making sure that is good timetable, he tamely timetable and

:56:53.:56:55.

that is legal support for those people in need with representation,

:56:56.:57:00.

that there are regular updates to the parliament and I just want to

:57:01.:57:04.

finish with the quote from a person who has just contacted me, seeing,

:57:05.:57:09.

this is just the end of the beginning and there is still a long

:57:10.:57:14.

way to go for truth, justice and holding to account. We will be

:57:15.:57:18.

watching very carefully what the government will do next".

:57:19.:57:29.

house has considered the need for a public enquiry.

:57:30.:57:36.

As many as are of that opinion, say Aye.

:57:37.:57:40.

Importantly, in the context of Article 27 what happens rarely

:57:41.:58:01.

perfect across. I was talking to the secretary, very good friend of mine

:58:02.:58:03.

20 months ago,

:58:04.:58:04.

Live coverage of proceedings in the House of Commons, including (estimated timings):

12.30pm-1.15pm Statement on the Taylor Report on working practices 1.15pm-4.15pm Emergency debate on contaminated blood products.