11/07/2017 House of Commons


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11/07/2017

Live coverage of the day's proceedings in the House of Commons, including the remaining stages of the Air Travel Organisers' Licensing Bill.


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Order, order. The ayes to the right, 271. The noes to the left, 305.

:00:09.:00:33.

The ayes to the right, 271, the noes to the left, 305, the noes have it.

:00:34.:00:41.

Unlock! The question is the amendment made. As many as are of

:00:42.:00:42.

the opinion, say "aye". To the the ayes have it. We've now, to the

:00:43.:00:58.

second group amendment one, with which it will be convenient to

:00:59.:01:04.

consider amendments to be close to. Patricia Gibson to move amendment.

:01:05.:01:15.

To move the motion, I wish to speak to amendment one in my name and that

:01:16.:01:19.

of my honourable friend for Portmarnock allowed in. --, and

:01:20.:01:26.

loads. And requires the Government to undertake an impact assessment

:01:27.:01:29.

before bringing forward regulations to amend the definition on the list

:01:30.:01:36.

act. Clause two of the bill requires only... There is a lot of

:01:37.:01:41.

conversation, I really am struggling. Please can we keep

:01:42.:01:47.

conversations until people leave the chamber. Patricia Gibson. Clause two

:01:48.:01:54.

requires only the secretary of state has an affirmative resolution by

:01:55.:01:57.

both houses but that is not enough. The Government should conduct a

:01:58.:02:00.

proper consultation and assess potential impact of any changes

:02:01.:02:07.

proposed to the Atol scheme. That it intends to introduce its secondary

:02:08.:02:11.

legislation. Any proposals must be fully transparent and consumers and

:02:12.:02:14.

businesses alike must be formally consulted on the process to allow

:02:15.:02:18.

for proper scrutiny. We trust the Minister will accept this and our

:02:19.:02:20.

reasons for proposing this amendment.

:02:21.:02:27.

The question is amendment one be made.

:02:28.:02:31.

Minister. Mr Speaker, Mr Deputy Speaker, I beg your pardon, I can

:02:32.:02:36.

satisfy the honourable lady entirely, I really intend to ensure

:02:37.:02:40.

there is exactly what she asks for, we have full consultation and impact

:02:41.:02:44.

assessment with respect to any regulations under the measures I

:02:45.:02:48.

bring to the house today. On that basis I hope she will withdraw the

:02:49.:02:52.

amendment, if she does not she will look rather daft.

:02:53.:03:01.

I rise to speak to amendment three. I am hoping you will select the

:03:02.:03:08.

amendment for a division. With this amendment we are seeking commitment

:03:09.:03:14.

by the Minister that the Government would conduct a thorough impact

:03:15.:03:19.

assessment consultation before implementing the power. The second

:03:20.:03:22.

clause relates to add travel trusts which is the legal vehicle that

:03:23.:03:27.

holds the money that is then used to refund consumers and the Atol

:03:28.:03:32.

protections. It would give the Secretary of State the power to

:03:33.:03:36.

define a separate trust arrangement to reflect different market models,

:03:37.:03:41.

prefiguring some of the changes in the holiday package market referred

:03:42.:03:46.

to by the Minister. This amendment would require the Government to

:03:47.:03:50.

undertake a full and proper review and public consultation. Before

:03:51.:03:55.

bringing in any of the changes that would be enabled and that the powers

:03:56.:04:02.

in clause two. Like clause one, clause two does not see directly

:04:03.:04:10.

relevant to analysing the EU and UK regulations. Instead it is a dormant

:04:11.:04:13.

power the Government will retain in order to make considerable changes

:04:14.:04:18.

to Atol, in particular to air travel trusts. That is where Brexit,

:04:19.:04:23.

perhaps, does come in, because we're such changes to happen but not where

:04:24.:04:27.

such changes to happen they would most likely be in the event of

:04:28.:04:38.

leaving the EU. Richard Moriarty of the Civil Aviation Authority and

:04:39.:04:41.

trustee of the current air travel trusts spoke about recognising the

:04:42.:04:46.

possible merits of separating the trust to reflect variations of

:04:47.:04:51.

products in the market. However, he explained we simply are not there

:04:52.:04:55.

yet and that it would be one for the Government to use this bill as it

:04:56.:05:01.

means of making changes without June consultation. The Minister made it

:05:02.:05:05.

clear in a letter to my honourable friend for Middlesbrough changes

:05:06.:05:09.

would be made only through the affirmative procedure yet the bill

:05:10.:05:15.

does not account for any further consultation of part of this

:05:16.:05:18.

measure. At the impact assessment the Government have undertaken it

:05:19.:05:24.

explicitly state it does not consider proposals for atoll

:05:25.:05:28.

reformed beyond what is required in the package travel directive. It

:05:29.:05:31.

would therefore be rather inappropriate for the Minister to go

:05:32.:05:37.

beyond that without providing assurances at this stage proper

:05:38.:05:41.

consultation and scrutiny would take place if they are minded to go

:05:42.:05:45.

beyond changes already envisaged. During evidence session Mr Moriarty

:05:46.:05:51.

said he hoped the Government would follow the practice they have

:05:52.:05:56.

followed so far, consult with regulators, consult with the

:05:57.:06:01.

industry and do the impact assessment and so on. This amendment

:06:02.:06:05.

is simply saying that, it is fair and reasonable and guarantees

:06:06.:06:17.

further changes to scrutiny. Patricia Gibson.

:06:18.:06:24.

Then the light of the Minister's assurances tonight I withdraw the

:06:25.:06:29.

amendment. Is it your place amendment one be

:06:30.:06:36.

withdrawn. Amendment one withdrawn. We now come to question amendment

:06:37.:06:42.

three. The question is amendment three be made. As many as are of the

:06:43.:06:45.

opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no".. Claire the lobbies!

:06:46.:07:46.

Right. The question is that amendment only be made. As many of

:07:47.:07:52.

of that opinion say aye. To the contrary, no.

:07:53.:14:53.

order, order. The ayes to the right, 274. The noes to the left, feared

:14:54.:19:25.

and seven. -- 307. Ayes to the right, turned and 74. The noes to

:19:26.:19:34.

the left, 307. The noes have it, the noes have it. The question was that

:19:35.:19:41.

clause two stand part of the bill. As many of that opinion say aye. On

:19:42.:19:55.

the contrary, no. The ayes have it. The question is that clause four

:19:56.:19:59.

stand part of the bill. As many of that opinion say aye. On the

:20:00.:20:04.

contrary, no. The ayes have it. We now come to new clause one. Tricia

:20:05.:20:13.

Gibson to move. I beg to move new clause one in my name. It requires

:20:14.:20:19.

the UK Government to report regularly on the threat of Brexit on

:20:20.:20:25.

consumer protection under the Atol scheme and to report annually on the

:20:26.:20:30.

progress it has made. Brexit throws up great uncertainties, not least in

:20:31.:20:33.

the aviation sector, with regards to passenger rights, compensation

:20:34.:20:36.

schemes and how much change and schemes and how much change and

:20:37.:20:41.

stability can be expected. There is also the question of how EU airlines

:20:42.:20:46.

and passengers might be affected. The overriding concern with this

:20:47.:20:50.

bill, welcome as it is, is consumer concerns must be safeguarded.

:20:51.:20:55.

Furthermore, such consumer protection is enhanced and updated

:20:56.:21:00.

as society and technology evolves. Just as they have during our EU

:21:01.:21:06.

membership. The UK cannot be left behind in a stagnating situation in

:21:07.:21:10.

this regard in a post Brexit world. New clause one is an extremely

:21:11.:21:14.

comfort and confidence to consumers. comfort and confidence to consumers.

:21:15.:21:18.

Otherwise, such a lack of guarantees will leave passengers vulnerable and

:21:19.:21:23.

potentially put people off booking holidays, which can only be bad news

:21:24.:21:28.

for an outbound tourism economy. It is so vital for jobs in Scotland and

:21:29.:21:30.

the rest of the UK and we intend to the rest of the UK and we intend to

:21:31.:21:35.

do press this matter to a division... The question is the new

:21:36.:21:42.

clause one will be better second time.

:21:43.:21:47.

I am grateful, Mr Deputy Speaker. As I said with previous amendments, I

:21:48.:21:51.

endorse and indeed support this member's partners. Either way, I am

:21:52.:21:56.

grateful for the honourable lady for withdrawing her earlier amendment

:21:57.:22:02.

following the assurance I gave her. And they say to the honourable

:22:03.:22:05.

gentleman opposite that I am committed to fill consultation and

:22:06.:22:09.

regulations as they are rolled out regulations as they are rolled out

:22:10.:22:10.

as a result of this legislation. The atoll legislation is not

:22:11.:22:23.

dependent on the package travel directive, this bill will harmonise

:22:24.:22:27.

at all with the package travel directive in the immediate term,

:22:28.:22:33.

however, atoll legislation and protection will exist and remain in

:22:34.:22:40.

place as we leave the EU. It is made by an framed in and supported by

:22:41.:22:46.

domestic legislation so whilst I understand the honourable lady's

:22:47.:22:51.

point, I have to say to her I think the new clause is a necessary, as it

:22:52.:22:58.

is enshrined in an act of this Parliament and all that Parliament

:22:59.:23:03.

can change this. Therefore, I hope the honourable lady, mindful of that

:23:04.:23:07.

and the assurances I have already given about consultation and further

:23:08.:23:14.

review, and indeed impact assessments, and the fact I

:23:15.:23:19.

mentioned there will be a review of all of this matters and what I have

:23:20.:23:26.

said about, I hope, given all of that, she might withdraw the new

:23:27.:23:30.

clause in her name and the name of others.

:23:31.:23:39.

These consumer protection measures require an assessment and we will

:23:40.:23:46.

support the cause. The question is new clause one be ready second. As

:23:47.:23:50.

many as are of the opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no".

:23:51.:23:52.

Division. Clear the lobbies! Order, the question is new clause

:23:53.:25:27.

one be read a second time. Just sits a minute. The question is new clause

:25:28.:25:35.

one be read a second time. That is an absolute disgrace. Right, we will

:25:36.:25:41.

try again and see if we can make progress. The question is new clause

:25:42.:25:48.

one be read a second time. As many as are of the opinion, say "aye". To

:25:49.:25:49.

the contrary, "no". Order. The ayes to the right 273,

:25:50.:35:46.

the noes the left 308. Thank you. The ayes to the right

:35:47.:35:53.

273, the noes to the left, 308. The noes have it. Unlock. The question

:35:54.:36:04.

is I do report is the bill without amendments to the house, As many as

:36:05.:36:07.

are of the opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no". The ayes have

:36:08.:36:12.

it. Order, order. Let me find out where I am.

:36:13.:36:39.

I don't believe that for one moment. Order, order. I beg to move the

:36:40.:36:47.

house has gone through the bill and made no amendment.

:36:48.:36:53.

Third reading. Minister to move. I am immensely grateful, Mr Deputy

:36:54.:36:57.

Speaker. What a pleasure it is to move the third reading of this

:36:58.:37:03.

important bill and to be able to do so in the knowledge it be considered

:37:04.:37:07.

in the spirit it deserves, there has been properly reasoned and measure

:37:08.:37:15.

it and sensible debate about its provisions and I am grateful to

:37:16.:37:21.

members of all sides of the hose for contributing to that process. I do

:37:22.:37:27.

think it was a little unnecessary we voted once or twice earlier but

:37:28.:37:31.

let's put that to one side because I fully appreciate opposition must do

:37:32.:37:39.

its job, if only to maintain the morale of the parliamentary party

:37:40.:37:43.

that knows it is no need to power now and it was a week or a month or

:37:44.:37:46.

a year ago. Put that one side. This is an

:37:47.:37:56.

important piece of legislation which as we said repeatedly brings

:37:57.:37:59.

up-to-date and up to speed the arrangements under the

:38:00.:38:00.

which protect travellers. Those which protect travellers. Those

:38:01.:38:04.

arrangements have been proven time arrangements have been proven time

:38:05.:38:09.

and time again to be effective. They are necessary and desirable, as has

:38:10.:38:13.

been acknowledged throughout our consideration. Benjamin Disraeli, we

:38:14.:38:21.

have heard too little of this afternoon. He said, like all great

:38:22.:38:26.

travellers, I have seen more and I remember more than I have seen. What

:38:27.:38:31.

I remember of these considerations is, as I said, they have been

:38:32.:38:35.

conducted in the way that Parliament should look at all such matters. I

:38:36.:38:39.

am entirely confident that the bill, as it proceeds, will continue to

:38:40.:38:44.

provide reassurance to travellers, the necessary provisions for

:38:45.:38:51.

businesses, and in those terms will do this Government and this

:38:52.:39:00.

house-proud. It is right that the Government should act in the

:39:01.:39:02.

interest of the common good. For that is enshrined in all that we are

:39:03.:39:07.

in my party and I hope that other parties in this House will gradually

:39:08.:39:18.

over time learn from that. So I welcome entirely the way that we

:39:19.:39:21.

have dealt with these matters. I look forward to the further

:39:22.:39:27.

consideration of them was the bill becomes law. I have committed to

:39:28.:39:36.

review the thoroughly and is the regulations will do, it is important

:39:37.:39:41.

to amplify it and review the implications of that in the way that

:39:42.:39:46.

is recommended by this House. We can be proud of this legislation. I am

:39:47.:39:52.

sure it is not just fit for purpose but necessary, desirable and

:39:53.:39:56.

efficacious and I move it on that basis. The question is that the bill

:39:57.:40:08.

be read after time. -- a third time. The Labour Party is supportive of

:40:09.:40:12.

the Atol bill and we will vote in support of it. But there are

:40:13.:40:15.

concerns on the impact of some parts of the bill which were expressed

:40:16.:40:22.

when this was first discussed. We hope that the Minister has taken on

:40:23.:40:29.

board the points made by Labour, echoed by the SNP, who re-tabled the

:40:30.:40:34.

amendments in the committee. The House will be aware that the Prime

:40:35.:40:37.

Minister has asked the opposition to help the Government five providing

:40:38.:40:42.

some policy suggestions. But it seems that the SNP are not even

:40:43.:40:46.

asking for help but rather just take Labour's policy ideas as their own

:40:47.:40:52.

and we should probably take that as a compliment, Mr Deputy Speaker. We

:40:53.:40:56.

support the bill because it brings Atol up-to-date and it will ensure

:40:57.:41:03.

that it syncs up with the latest travel directive, extending to a

:41:04.:41:07.

wider range of holidays and protecting more consumers as well as

:41:08.:41:11.

a leading UK travel companies to sell more seamlessly across Europe.

:41:12.:41:17.

Whilst we have some real concerns over whether UK consumers will be is

:41:18.:41:20.

officially protected by a UBS companies as they will no longer be

:41:21.:41:25.

subject to Atol, but a member state equivalents, we welcome the changes

:41:26.:41:29.

which will ultimately help to protect more holiday-makers. The

:41:30.:41:32.

invitations for tet-mac two after invitations for tet-mac two after

:41:33.:41:36.

Brexit and also cause for concern. -- four Atol. The bill proposes that

:41:37.:41:42.

the Secretary of State requires only an affirmative resolution

:41:43.:41:44.

significantly reform Atol and the significantly reform Atol and the

:41:45.:41:50.

air travel trust fund. Labour recognises the merit of some reforms

:41:51.:41:54.

but we believe an impact assessment, fill consultation and scrutiny

:41:55.:41:57.

should have been required before any fundamental changes are made to

:41:58.:42:03.

these consumer sections. -- protections. The issue brings to the

:42:04.:42:06.

forefront uncertainties over the future of the UK of the nation -- of

:42:07.:42:13.

UK aviation following the decision to leave EU. The Labour Party has

:42:14.:42:16.

been clear in that whatever framework is chosen, we should

:42:17.:42:22.

prioritise working in an unchanged operating environment. The service

:42:23.:42:30.

agreements should be prioritised. As is customary, such agreement should

:42:31.:42:33.

be negotiated separately from and prior to negotiations on trade with

:42:34.:42:36.

EU. The Government must not waste the opportunity that this bill

:42:37.:42:43.

presents to clarify intended future arrangements for our aviation

:42:44.:42:48.

industry. The UK aviation sector is the largest in Europe, Fab largest

:42:49.:42:53.

in the world, supporting 1 million jobs and bringing 9 billion into the

:42:54.:42:57.

Treasury in taxes each. -- third largest. But aviation also provides

:42:58.:43:06.

a network infrastructure that allows other industries to do well also.

:43:07.:43:10.

Half a million jobs in the UK tourism industry as a porter by

:43:11.:43:17.

aviation. 40 but since -- 40% of UK exports go via airports. The EU is

:43:18.:43:27.

largest destination, 49% of passengers travel there. Airlines

:43:28.:43:33.

that operate from within UK unable to operate within the EU single

:43:34.:43:38.

aviation market, which allows them to operate freely within the EU

:43:39.:43:44.

without restrictions on capacity, frequency and pricing.

:43:45.:43:58.

Significantly, this includes three you, -- EU open skies agreement.

:43:59.:44:08.

That allows airlines to deal to fly between the EU and the US. If

:44:09.:44:12.

Britain leads the year without retaining any form of European

:44:13.:44:16.

common aviation membership, airlines common aviation membership, airlines

:44:17.:44:20.

will need to negotiate new lines to operate freely within the EU and

:44:21.:44:23.

operate transatlantic routes. This means that there will be no legal

:44:24.:44:26.

framework that allows airlines to fly to those destinations within

:44:27.:44:37.

with thin -- within the UK. It means airlines could lose the right to fly

:44:38.:44:41.

Aviation is legally unique. It is Aviation is legally unique. It is

:44:42.:44:48.

separate from trade agreements and it does not form part of the World

:44:49.:44:51.

Trade Organisation system. Instead, countries negotiate bilateral or

:44:52.:44:57.

multilateral are service agreements to provide airlines with legal

:44:58.:45:03.

rights to fly to certain places. To ensure the continuity of

:45:04.:45:08.

connectivity, the UK will need to negotiate a new air service

:45:09.:45:13.

agreement with countries like the US if there is no agreement at the time

:45:14.:45:18.

the UK leads the EU. Connectivity could be undermined and the UK

:45:19.:45:23.

ability to trade be much more difficult. It is imperative that the

:45:24.:45:27.

Government should prioritise retaining an essentially unchanged

:45:28.:45:35.

operating environment. That is why we should prioritise air services

:45:36.:45:37.

agreement as part of Brexit negotiations. Does the measures in

:45:38.:45:42.

this bill are important and will provide additional security to UK

:45:43.:45:46.

holiday-makers, it is strange the Government find it necessary to

:45:47.:45:49.

debate was built of the whole house. The measures in the bill were

:45:50.:45:54.

included previously and passed through the committee stage before

:45:55.:45:58.

the primaries to decided to call the unnecessary snap general election. I

:45:59.:45:59.

think that I am right in saying, Mr think that I am right in saying, Mr

:46:00.:46:03.

Deputy Speaker, these provisions were debated in that bill in normal

:46:04.:46:10.

than 45 minutes in committee. The Government had not made changes to

:46:11.:46:17.

proposal. We don't understand why the decision was taken for this

:46:18.:46:25.

largely niche bill to take up time in the chamber, other than to try

:46:26.:46:28.

and disguise the fact that this chaotic Government have a thread be

:46:29.:46:31.

a legislative programme for this Parliament. I just make a point that

:46:32.:46:38.

as a result of that scrutiny, which the honourable gentleman should not

:46:39.:46:41.

disparage, because he has played an important part of making it real, we

:46:42.:46:46.

have had a good debate about the issue of review, impact assessments

:46:47.:46:51.

and further consultation. Those things very close to his heart. It

:46:52.:46:58.

has the really useful purpose. He makes a fair enough point, but it

:46:59.:47:02.

seems, with respect to the Minister, that there has been a terrible waste

:47:03.:47:05.

of time debating this in the committee of the whole house when in

:47:06.:47:10.

fact it was dealt with in 45 minutes in committee upstairs. Mr Deputy

:47:11.:47:17.

Speaker, for sake of appearances, it has been broken up into component

:47:18.:47:21.

parts and has now been given undue time for debate in this chairman. Of

:47:22.:47:29.

course. -- in this chamber. I am terribly grateful to remember. It is

:47:30.:47:32.

of course not a waste of time to discuss anything pertaining to the

:47:33.:47:36.

whole of the UK in this House and in committee of the whole of the House

:47:37.:47:39.

because it gives me the opportunity to remind the Minister that we have

:47:40.:47:43.

three airports in Northern Ireland. We in Northern Ireland are the only

:47:44.:47:46.

part physically connected to another EU member state, the Republic of

:47:47.:47:53.

Ireland. It is only important. We don't want to lose traffic and

:47:54.:47:58.

airport traffic from Northern Ireland to airports like Dublin. She

:47:59.:48:03.

makes up good point on behalf of our constituency but I don't think

:48:04.:48:10.

requires your response from me. I thank the Minister for giving way.

:48:11.:48:16.

This is a bit of an occasion, really, because the opposition

:48:17.:48:22.

traditionally complain that things are not given time the Government

:48:23.:48:25.

has tried to rush it through. That there has not been sufficient

:48:26.:48:29.

examination. The Shadow Minister seems to be making quite a precedent

:48:30.:48:34.

here that he is complaining this bill has been given too much time.

:48:35.:48:39.

Why is that? If he will allow me to continue, will make the point in a

:48:40.:48:42.

minute or two that they are very important issues debated which are

:48:43.:48:49.

now not going to be debated. And indeed made into legislation. By

:48:50.:48:55.

breaking up the bill, message was included have been dropped. Measures

:48:56.:49:01.

which could have been included to improve legislation through

:49:02.:49:02.

clauses and amendments will no clauses and amendments will no

:49:03.:49:05.

longer be added because the longer within the scope of forthcoming

:49:06.:49:11.

bills. The proposal to make the shining lasers and vehicles control

:49:12.:49:15.

towers and enforceable criminal offence, which were strongly

:49:16.:49:19.

supported by the side of the House, which we would be happy to support,

:49:20.:49:24.

has been dropped altogether. That is clearly concerning. We do not want

:49:25.:49:28.

to see avoidable disasters brought about by the malicious use of

:49:29.:49:36.

Labour's -- lasers and nor does the Minister. Can he explain why he is

:49:37.:49:41.

dropped these plans and when he proposes to legislate to tackle this

:49:42.:49:44.

serious problem?, again there is nothing in the bill for the

:49:45.:49:48.

inclusion of the much-needed regulations on drones. The

:49:49.:49:53.

Government respond to the consultation on drones I think in

:49:54.:49:57.

have made much more progress have made much more progress

:49:58.:50:00.

already, including making decisions on whether the UK should follow

:50:01.:50:05.

other countries by establishing a compulsory registration scheme and

:50:06.:50:10.

getting systematic geo- fencing in place to physically stop drones

:50:11.:50:13.

getting near airports and other places where they could be

:50:14.:50:20.

potentially so dangerous. It makes no sense of the Government to have

:50:21.:50:23.

abandoned the bill in which action on drones could have been included.

:50:24.:50:28.

These are decisions that will make aviation less safe than it should

:50:29.:50:34.

such incidents confirmed and the such incidents confirmed and the

:50:35.:50:39.

first five months of this year, there were 70 last year and 29 in

:50:40.:50:45.

2015. Just ten in the five years preceding. We need legislation to

:50:46.:50:52.

regulate the use of drones, to tackle the worrying trend of near

:50:53.:50:55.

misses with planes. The aviation industry have been clear, Mr Deputy

:50:56.:50:59.

Speaker, that they need the Government to act on these concerns

:51:00.:51:04.

now. We on this side of the House have been pressing them on this

:51:05.:51:09.

issue for many years. Without action, it is a question of when,

:51:10.:51:15.

rather than if there is a passenger plane involved in a drone related

:51:16.:51:18.

incident. So will the Minister explain why this has been dropped

:51:19.:51:23.

and what plans he has to get it right? It is just one month into

:51:24.:51:25.

this new parliament and the this new parliament and

:51:26.:51:26.

Government are already running out Government are already running out

:51:27.:51:31.

of steam. Which is why we have been debating this bill on the floor of

:51:32.:51:33.

the House rather upstairs in committee. The Prime Minister is

:51:34.:51:37.

attempting to crowds of policy ideas from the opposition and in this

:51:38.:51:43.

case, we can assist. The Government needs to bring forward legislation

:51:44.:51:46.

on the misuse of lasers. On the regulation of drones. And provide

:51:47.:51:51.

clarity and certainty for UK aviation post Brexit. We welcome the

:51:52.:51:56.

Government adopting these policies and they will have our full support

:51:57.:51:59.

if they do so. Leave abruptly supports the bill because it extends

:52:00.:52:03.

protection is afforded to many more holiday-makers but we one clarity

:52:04.:52:08.

and a UK-based companies, which longer subject to Atol, will be

:52:09.:52:13.

provided protection to UK consumers. The best possible framework to

:52:14.:52:24.

ensure that the sector flourishes but this means preparing ourselves

:52:25.:52:28.

for the many implications of Brexit on Atol and the aviation sector as a

:52:29.:52:34.

whole. I and very much work I began in a

:52:35.:52:40.

welcoming and supporting the Government's majors to update the

:52:41.:52:43.

Atol scheme to provide more passenger protection and align it

:52:44.:52:47.

with the latest EU directives and the further progress made in this

:52:48.:52:52.

debate. I was disappointed to hear the member for Kingston-upon-Hull

:52:53.:52:58.

complaining that process has taken too long. I would suggest to the

:52:59.:53:02.

honourable gentleman if he sees this as a problem perhaps he has

:53:03.:53:06.

contributed to it with his extensive remarks which I am sure we all

:53:07.:53:10.

enjoyed but he seems to contribute to the problem here that if I is.

:53:11.:53:15.

I am grateful to the honourable lady. I did not complain it has

:53:16.:53:19.

taken too long I simply made the point the time in this house is

:53:20.:53:23.

incredibly important and there is a lot of things discussed and debated

:53:24.:53:28.

which could have made the legislation but the time has been

:53:29.:53:35.

wasted. 45 minutes in committee, that was the point.

:53:36.:53:38.

I believe the Minister has taken on board a very legitimate and legal

:53:39.:53:42.

concerns expressed tonight about the rights of consumers and how they are

:53:43.:53:45.

to be protected and have their current rate is guaranteed as we

:53:46.:53:50.

head towards a post Brexit world. There can and must not be any

:53:51.:53:57.

diminution or stagnation in passengers' rights as technology

:53:58.:54:00.

advances. It is heartening to see the way this bill has proceeded

:54:01.:54:04.

through the house and the ensuing debate and I will be delighted to be

:54:05.:54:13.

part of it. Briefly, I don't want to delay the

:54:14.:54:18.

house... I am sure the Minister will beg the lead of the house to address

:54:19.:54:23.

the house again. I do not want to detain the house at

:54:24.:54:34.

length, except... Except to say that to affirm my thanks to all members

:54:35.:54:40.

who have contributed to this debate. I hear what the honourable gentleman

:54:41.:54:45.

says about the previous bill, he drew attention to those elements of

:54:46.:54:48.

the bill which were not being considered today, this is very much

:54:49.:54:55.

part of that earlier bill, but we have made clear in the Queen's

:54:56.:55:00.

Speech we intend to bring further legislation in the area of transport

:55:01.:55:05.

and I'm happy to continue to have conversation about drones and

:55:06.:55:12.

lasers, as he suggested. It has been in the debate, a good bill and I

:55:13.:55:17.

think we will leave it at that. The question is the bill be now read

:55:18.:55:21.

the third time. As many as are of the opinion, say "aye". To the

:55:22.:55:28.

contrary, "no". The ayes have it, the ayes have it.

:55:29.:55:36.

We now come to the motion relating to high-speed two and electronic

:55:37.:55:46.

deposits of documents. I call the Minister Michael Ellis to move the

:55:47.:55:50.

motion. Thank you very much. I beg to move

:55:51.:55:55.

the motion in the name of the Leader of the House. Her Majesty's gracious

:55:56.:55:59.

speech gave notice of the Government's intention to introduce

:56:00.:56:03.

a hybrid bill to parliament later in the year to take forward the next

:56:04.:56:08.

phase of HS2. As a hybrid bill that will be governed by the Standing

:56:09.:56:12.

Orders for private business. Parlour's review of the Standing

:56:13.:56:16.

Orders following the passage of the high-speed rail London West Midlands

:56:17.:56:21.

act has not yet concluded and is the first significant review since 1948.

:56:22.:56:27.

It is therefore necessary to move this motion to update parliamentary

:56:28.:56:32.

procedure to reflect developments in technology since 1948. If I may I

:56:33.:56:37.

will explain briefly the changes to the house which replicate those the

:56:38.:56:43.

house authorised in 2013 ahead of the introduction of the previous

:56:44.:56:48.

hybrid bill. The house will be aware along with the HS2 hybrid bill later

:56:49.:56:52.

this year we will provide Parliament with the environmental statement.

:56:53.:56:56.

This will set out the likely significant environmental effects of

:56:57.:57:00.

the scheme and put forward proposals for alleviating those effects. For a

:57:01.:57:05.

project of this magnitude that is a considerable level of detail

:57:06.:57:08.

involved. We expect the statement to be up to 12,000 pages long. It is of

:57:09.:57:15.

course important local communities can easily find out what the impact

:57:16.:57:21.

will be on their local area. However, current Standing Orders

:57:22.:57:25.

require a us to deposit a hard copy of that document to every local

:57:26.:57:29.

authority area along the line of the route. In this day and age that is

:57:30.:57:34.

inconvenient for the communities involved, especially for parish

:57:35.:57:39.

councils, many of which do not have sufficient space so they asked us to

:57:40.:57:43.

deliver it elsewhere, often a library nearby. That is why the

:57:44.:57:49.

motion allows for the electronic deposits of Bill documentation for

:57:50.:57:54.

the HS2 hybrid bill. I am most grateful honourable friend

:57:55.:57:59.

and as one who is seriously opposed to this hybrid bill which runs right

:58:00.:58:05.

through my constituency and want to make quite sure if he would be good

:58:06.:58:09.

enough to give us written undertaking there will be provision

:58:10.:58:14.

of written material of the kind he describes, although I understand why

:58:15.:58:20.

it should be in electronic form. It is a promise of power, it does

:58:21.:58:25.

not require documents to be deposited in electronic format only,

:58:26.:58:31.

if deposit location once all the documents and hard copy, HS2 Limited

:58:32.:58:39.

will provide them so. The motion allows for the electronic deposit of

:58:40.:58:43.

Bill documentation for the HS2 Hybrid bill, making it easier for

:58:44.:58:47.

communities across the route to find the information most relevant to

:58:48.:58:52.

their area without having to work through an otherwise enormous

:58:53.:58:55.

document and will also make it but like I will give way to my

:58:56.:58:58.

honourable friend. What will happen if because of the

:58:59.:59:05.

cruelty of this Government the libraries have been closed and there

:59:06.:59:11.

was therefore room for the hard copies of the bill, even though the

:59:12.:59:15.

local areas wanted them. How would you handle that? I don't

:59:16.:59:21.

accept the characterisation of my right honourable friend. On previous

:59:22.:59:27.

occasions nearby community libraries have been asked to store Rabat has

:59:28.:59:32.

been storage problem so I anticipate alternative mechanisms could be in

:59:33.:59:37.

place. As I said, it should be noted that is a permissive power. It does

:59:38.:59:44.

not require documents be deposited electronically only so if a location

:59:45.:59:51.

once all the documents and hard copy HS2 will provide them so and in all

:59:52.:59:54.

cases HS2 Limited will make available the key document and hard

:59:55.:00:01.

copy such as the bill itself and the nontechnical summary of the

:00:02.:00:04.

environmental statement. Further, members of the public will be able

:00:05.:00:09.

to phone his chest to Limited can ask for free hard copies of the

:00:10.:00:14.

nontechnical summary -- HS2 Limited, the local community area report and

:00:15.:00:19.

maps. If you deposit location with that document in electronic form but

:00:20.:00:22.

does not have the equipment to make them available to the community, HS2

:00:23.:00:27.

will also provide the equipment and it -- at its own expense. This is a

:00:28.:00:33.

wholly sensible organisation of standing order requirements that

:00:34.:00:35.

were originally conceived in the 19th century and is about making it

:00:36.:00:39.

easier for people to engage with the hybrid bill process and therefore

:00:40.:00:42.

ensuring the most effective decision-making by Parliament.

:00:43.:00:52.

Of course he just sort of widely referred to the maps, of course the

:00:53.:00:57.

maps, specifications, the limits of deviation, he knows perfectly well

:00:58.:01:00.

how much always involves. Can I have an assurance from him if it is

:01:01.:01:05.

required all those things will also be made available in hard copy? Yes.

:01:06.:01:12.

Reasonable request, yes. This is a wholly sensible modernisation of

:01:13.:01:14.

standing order requirements and is easier for people, about making it

:01:15.:01:20.

easier for people to engage with the hybrid bill process. I commend this

:01:21.:01:27.

motion to the house. The question is motion number three,

:01:28.:01:35.

as on the order paper. Can I start by thanking the deputy

:01:36.:01:39.

Leader of the House or his explanation of the changes in

:01:40.:01:42.

Standing Orders for the purposes of the bill. Hybrid bills are a rarity

:01:43.:01:47.

in the house, public bill proposes a law that affects the private

:01:48.:01:52.

interests of a particular person or organisation. This bill will affect

:01:53.:01:56.

the general public and specific household along the route of the HS2

:01:57.:02:02.

line phase two. The house has already agreed these changes in

:02:03.:02:05.

similar circumstances for phase one of the HS2 project from London to

:02:06.:02:10.

the West Midlands and these changes relate to phase two of the project

:02:11.:02:13.

allowing for the construction of the route from Birmingham to crew,

:02:14.:02:19.

approximately 50 miles apart. These changes allowing for electronic

:02:20.:02:24.

copies and documents to be made available are eminently sensible.

:02:25.:02:28.

Could I ask the deputy Leader of the House if you could clarify a couple

:02:29.:02:34.

of things. On the motion under section three, it says copies of so

:02:35.:02:39.

much of it as the person may reasonably require and such copies

:02:40.:02:44.

made, be provided in electronic form. Could he come from those

:02:45.:02:48.

documents will not unreasonably be withheld and the request will be

:02:49.:02:53.

complied with. I appreciate people cannot ask for documents out of the

:02:54.:02:57.

area of which they do not have an interest but could she say who will

:02:58.:02:59.

actually make the decision about whether it is a reasonable request?

:03:00.:03:06.

Could see also can from households along the Birmingham to Crewe of

:03:07.:03:10.

route, who will be directly affected, will be able to receive a

:03:11.:03:14.

free copy of documents relating to the area? The honourable member has

:03:15.:03:19.

suggested some rural areas may not have a good internet access and may

:03:20.:03:25.

not be proficient in IT, in some cases, but that should have those

:03:26.:03:28.

documents free of charge or can he can they will be gone so was that he

:03:29.:03:35.

mentions a telephone number that people can ring to HS2, can he can

:03:36.:03:38.

from this will not be at the premium rate and will be free of charge?

:03:39.:03:42.

Could the Leader of the House say when we are likely to have the first

:03:43.:03:46.

reading of the bill? Will receive before the house rises for the

:03:47.:03:51.

summer recess? I'm sure we could agree amendment generally through

:03:52.:03:54.

the Procedure Committee we do not have to keep coming back to end to

:03:55.:03:58.

Standing Orders to include a reference to electronic copies. I am

:03:59.:04:06.

sure we could agree that. In the event Her Majesty's opposition

:04:07.:04:08.

support these changes in the Standing Orders, which are in line

:04:09.:04:17.

to previous amendments to Standing Orders, it will be no surprise to

:04:18.:04:22.

the house I rise to my feet on this small motion before the house this

:04:23.:04:25.

evening. It may surprise colleagues sitting

:04:26.:04:29.

alongside me I rise to welcome this particular provision. As a veteran

:04:30.:04:38.

of the hybrid bill process in this place there is no doubt the hybrid

:04:39.:04:45.

bill process is arcane and has tremendous problems with its

:04:46.:04:50.

practices and procedures. Certainly, my constituents and many

:04:51.:04:53.

constituents of other honourable members have been at the mercy of

:04:54.:04:58.

the hybrid process, hybrid bill process. I am afraid I shudder when

:04:59.:05:06.

I hear the front bench say the environmental statement will be at

:05:07.:05:10.

least 12,000 pages, I have experienced something just as large

:05:11.:05:17.

for phase one of the HS2 process and these are indeed very own page

:05:18.:05:22.

documents. I have to ask the deputy Leader of the House if there is

:05:23.:05:30.

going to be sufficient navigable instruments, as it is being served

:05:31.:05:34.

up to people electronically, because I and so that many of my

:05:35.:05:37.

constituents that the documents presented by the HS2 Limited were

:05:38.:05:42.

very difficult to navigate, very hard to find. I would like some and

:05:43.:05:48.

should insist that has been improvements in the way in which

:05:49.:05:52.

people can move around these very large documents. The deputy leader

:05:53.:05:59.

has already given assurances nothing in this order tonight will prevent

:06:00.:06:03.

communities access and paper copies and we must not forget that is a

:06:04.:06:07.

digital divide. Many of the people affected by this project are elderly

:06:08.:06:11.

and the Lord affected by this project are elderly and to easily

:06:12.:06:16.

access on computers large documents. It is very important those people

:06:17.:06:24.

have access, free of charge, to those sections of the document that

:06:25.:06:28.

relate to their properties or the area around is that particular part

:06:29.:06:35.

of the route. I give way. Does my right honourable friend also

:06:36.:06:40.

agree when this material comes electronically and then has to be

:06:41.:06:45.

turned into a person's home or office -- turn a person's home or

:06:46.:06:48.

office into the kind of material they make sense and can read, the

:06:49.:06:53.

complexity of the documents, design specifications and all the other

:06:54.:06:57.

things and monumental volume of paper really does become very

:06:58.:07:02.

daunting indeed. Lastly, does she agree, or our previous debate and

:07:03.:07:09.

consultation, that HS2 better get its act together and consultation as

:07:10.:07:10.

well and do it properly? I am grateful for that intervention.

:07:11.:07:21.

It is quite clear that HS2 needs to improve not only its consultation

:07:22.:07:24.

processes but as communication processes, which are absolutely

:07:25.:07:31.

still failing in many instances. I will. I'm very grateful to the

:07:32.:07:37.

honourable lady for allowing me to intervene. It is a small but very

:07:38.:07:41.

important point. The issue that she has just raised about older people

:07:42.:07:47.

not being familiar, often, with technology and electronic documents.

:07:48.:07:55.

We often see that older people suffer from vision impairment or I

:07:56.:08:05.

impairment. Often people need real copies. Will she seek reassurance

:08:06.:08:10.

that was a disadvantage of seeing documents will have some assistance

:08:11.:08:15.

with that? Can I just say, I think she makes a very good point. What I

:08:16.:08:21.

am keen on insuring is that in a process that is so inequitable,

:08:22.:08:24.

where the citizen receives very where the citizen receives very

:08:25.:08:28.

help, that we try to impress on the front bench and HS2 Ltd that there

:08:29.:08:33.

are people who need assistance to navigate these documents and

:08:34.:08:36.

understand them. And I feel passionately that this needs to be

:08:37.:08:39.

the case. If you have seen people who are losing their house having to

:08:40.:08:42.

appear before the select committee of this House, when a silk, QC,

:08:43.:08:52.

highly expensive barrister is that against them and they have no help,

:08:53.:08:56.

she will understand the reason why I am poor the front bench to make sure

:08:57.:09:04.

there are suitable things in place to help them. We ask that the

:09:05.:09:08.

telephone line would be a free telephone line but I go for the than

:09:09.:09:12.

that. I would like to make sure the front bench and shows that telephone

:09:13.:09:17.

line is actually manned by competent people who actually know what

:09:18.:09:20.

they're talking about and can get people through the process easily.

:09:21.:09:26.

Because that is extremely important in my view. Very disappointed,

:09:27.:09:31.

however, that at the moment there is nothing here to allow petitioners in

:09:32.:09:36.

the process when this will comes forward, in the petition process, to

:09:37.:09:39.

petition electronically, unless the front tells me differently. I have

:09:40.:09:43.

had to bring in petitions from constituents myself into this House.

:09:44.:09:49.

And for the pleasure of defending your properties, they were charged

:09:50.:09:55.

?20. I was collecting money and documents and bringing them in to

:09:56.:09:59.

facilitate that process. Now, my constituency is not fired outside

:10:00.:10:07.

London. -- not far. The people affected by this phase of HS2 Ltd

:10:08.:10:11.

further up the country and I would have fought the front bench would

:10:12.:10:14.

have looked at how constituents of other MPs who are going to be

:10:15.:10:19.

affected by these two are able to put in petitions this time. -- phase

:10:20.:10:26.

two. I implore the front bench to look at that because it is a matter

:10:27.:10:29.

of priority. I think we should wipe out the ?20 fee which is either fish

:10:30.:10:34.

nor fowl. It is an insult to people who want to defend their properties

:10:35.:10:38.

and have their voice heard. I deal that will be cancelled. -- do hope

:10:39.:10:46.

that. I have another question to ask. Because in this motion, the

:10:47.:10:55.

Deputy Leader will that any requirement relating to private

:10:56.:10:59.

business to make a document available for the sale of prescribed

:11:00.:11:01.

offices... If it is made available Foreign Office in London. I would

:11:02.:11:08.

like his assurances that this will not be only place it will be on

:11:09.:11:15.

sale. Because as phase two, when the bills introduced, goes

:11:16.:11:20.

Birmingham Northfield, I wonder if Birmingham Northfield, I wonder if

:11:21.:11:25.

it would be sensible to have this in Manchester, for example, which I

:11:26.:11:28.

think that the more assistance for the people affected by this project.

:11:29.:11:32.

I would very much like to know when the bill will be introduced but

:11:33.:11:35.

they'll so would very much like to know when the second reading is

:11:36.:11:39.

anticipated. Because I think, when we have another hybrid bill of this

:11:40.:11:45.

size and complexity at affecting so many people, that it is important

:11:46.:11:50.

that as much warning as possible is given by the Government and HS2 Ltd.

:11:51.:11:55.

And all the information is readily available well in advance and with

:11:56.:11:59.

explanations of the people can get their heads around it. There is no

:12:00.:12:04.

doubt that there will be support for the phase to Bill across all sides

:12:05.:12:09.

of the House. And once again you will find a very small number of MPs

:12:10.:12:13.

perhaps opposed to it by raising questions about it. So the

:12:14.:12:18.

Government need not fear that it will not get its business. But if it

:12:19.:12:22.

is going to embark on a project of this size and complexity, please

:12:23.:12:27.

learn from the lessons and mistakes that were made on phase one and did

:12:28.:12:33.

not play people on phase two through the same agonies that we had in

:12:34.:12:36.

phase one. If we do not learn and we do not then take action, we are

:12:37.:12:46.

failing people in this country. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. And

:12:47.:12:52.

just go to set couple of words. Firstly, the changes are, as the

:12:53.:12:56.

shadow Leader of the House said, sensible. It makes sense to move to

:12:57.:13:02.

electronic means where possible. I want to point to some members that

:13:03.:13:07.

some members have been concerned about the electronic issue and

:13:08.:13:12.

access to hard copy. There are issues with people on benefits being

:13:13.:13:17.

forced to move online. We have to remember there is a disparity here

:13:18.:13:22.

in attitudes. In terms of what the honourable member said, I would

:13:23.:13:26.

agree in terms of any consultations with people. People must be able to

:13:27.:13:32.

interact with expats are people who understand the documents and can

:13:33.:13:38.

explain them in an impartial way. Some people have difficultly reading

:13:39.:13:44.

maps online or in hard copy. It is very important people can access

:13:45.:13:46.

that information and understand that. So certainly out of the

:13:47.:13:50.

Government to make sure any consultations do allow people to

:13:51.:13:54.

have full access to understand that information. I would also like to

:13:55.:13:59.

ask the Leader of the House, the Deputy Leader of the House, has

:14:00.:14:01.

there been any savings identified through this measure? It would seem

:14:02.:14:09.

sensible that they would be savings, but that equally seems to be

:14:10.:14:12.

balanced up with a rather generous offer of giving out IT equipment. I

:14:13.:14:15.

wonder if there has been an assessment made of how much IT

:14:16.:14:24.

equipment will be discussed as well. I have already made a couple of

:14:25.:14:25.

interventions and I am extremely interventions and I am

:14:26.:14:27.

grateful to my very distinguished grateful to my very distinguished

:14:28.:14:29.

and right honourable friend for all the work she has done on phase one,

:14:30.:14:35.

which has set a pattern for what is to be done on the second phase,

:14:36.:14:41.

which so directly and detrimentally affects my own constituency. May I

:14:42.:14:46.

make one suggestion? Then I will allow the Minister to reply. It is

:14:47.:14:50.

simply this. Birmingham has been mentioned. As a matter of fact, if

:14:51.:15:01.

you take the line between Birmingham and Crewe, the more central place

:15:02.:15:03.

happens to be Staffordshire. Could she give consideration to using the

:15:04.:15:10.

County Council facilities, which are extremely good, where copying could

:15:11.:15:13.

be done and that sort of thing at a central point, where people from my

:15:14.:15:16.

constituency at both ends of the line would be able to visit with a

:15:17.:15:21.

minimum amount of inconvenience? That is all I need to say for the

:15:22.:15:29.

time being. Madam Deputy Speaker, with the leave of the House, if I

:15:30.:15:33.

may answer some of these points with a limited amount of time available.

:15:34.:15:39.

As far as my right honourable friend...

:15:40.:15:41.

As far as my right honourable The right honourable lady opposite

:15:42.:15:49.

asked what is meant by "Reasonable". A reasonable request means weighing

:15:50.:15:58.

up HS2, the cost of meeting the request, against whether there is a

:15:59.:16:01.

genuine need for the information in the format requested will stop so,

:16:02.:16:07.

reasonable requests, for hard copies, by individuals, will be met.

:16:08.:16:14.

These can be requested from local authorities who will be provided

:16:15.:16:18.

hard copy for inspection or directly from HS2. I am asked by a couple of

:16:19.:16:21.

honourable members about when the bill will be laid. I can simply say

:16:22.:16:28.

soon at this point. All reasonable requests for hard copies of maps,

:16:29.:16:30.

section drawings, by individuals will be met. I can also say that and

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as to the point raised by my honourable friend that is fired as

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audio is concerned, we are proactively considering ordeal in

:16:48.:16:58.

Braille and easy read versions. That is for accessibility for all

:16:59.:17:03.

persons. I have noted complaints made about the telephone line and I

:17:04.:17:09.

will look into that matter. I understand it is a London number,

:17:10.:17:12.

jazz of the honourable lady's question about the rate, but I will

:17:13.:17:22.

look into it. The issue is raised about London and whether documents

:17:23.:17:26.

can be stored elsewhere, a tiny number of people requesting this.

:17:27.:17:30.

But we will certainly look into those reasonable requests. Will he

:17:31.:17:39.

give way on that important point? Very briefly. Is it plans to

:17:40.:17:46.

translate this into other languages? I am not aware of any such plans at

:17:47.:17:51.

the moment. We are considering the issue of Braille. I'm so grateful.

:17:52.:17:59.

Can he tell you what the appeal processes if HS2 does not been a

:18:00.:18:03.

request to be reasonable? -- does not deem. It is clear that all

:18:04.:18:18.

reasonable requests will be met. Reasonable requests will be met and

:18:19.:18:24.

certainly further consideration can be given to that in due course. But

:18:25.:18:30.

this is a sensible modernisation of the standing orders, which are

:18:31.:18:36.

frankly 19th-century standing orders which have not undergone radical

:18:37.:18:40.

reform since 1948. I will give way very briefly. Lastly, I know that he

:18:41.:18:47.

had questions put to him, but the question of Stafford and Stafford

:18:48.:18:50.

County Council buildings being the place where people can go would be a

:18:51.:18:59.

very, very convenient point. My right honourable friend, the Leader

:19:00.:19:02.

of the House, is particularly alive to all the concerns raised,

:19:03.:19:03.

including the localities involved including the localities involved

:19:04.:19:08.

and local committees involved. The issue that my right honourable

:19:09.:19:16.

friend raises is that we'll be considered, as far as Stafford is

:19:17.:19:21.

concerned. In the circumstances, I beg to move. The question is motion

:19:22.:19:27.

number three as on the order paper. As many as are of that opinion say

:19:28.:19:34.

aye. On the contrary, no. The ayes have it, the ayes have it.

:19:35.:19:42.

I beg to move that this housed in a ledger. The question is that this

:19:43.:19:46.

House do now adjourn. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I'm

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delighted to see my honourable friend, the Minister, in this place.

:19:59.:20:05.

I am hopeful that she is in a cooperative mood. As she will be

:20:06.:20:09.

aware, I am raising a very small but, in my opinion and others',

:20:10.:20:14.

important point seeking a small change in the Mental Health Act

:20:15.:20:19.

1983, section 130 six. She will be aware that I have raised this twice

:20:20.:20:23.

previously. First in a Ten Minute Rule Bill in 2014. And I do not

:20:24.:20:34.

proceed with this. There was a whole ongoing Government review. The

:20:35.:20:39.

second occasion was almost exactly one year ago when I raised it in our

:20:40.:20:44.

judgment debate. I was prompted to see the change initially having seen

:20:45.:20:47.

it first hand in the streets of London when I was with a couple of

:20:48.:20:54.

officers, in a response car. The officers, in a response car. The

:20:55.:21:00.

first call was a dashed to in the 14th floor of the Council

:21:01.:21:06.

residential tower block. A mother nervously let officers and she saw

:21:07.:21:10.

her daughter, 22, standing on a window ledge threatening to jump. We

:21:11.:21:14.

quickly established that the doctor had the history of genuine suicide

:21:15.:21:18.

attempts and as the young lady was clearly put out by the uniformed

:21:19.:21:22.

police officers, fortunately, we were joined very prompted by three

:21:23.:21:28.

father officers, to plain clothes. -- two of them were in plain

:21:29.:21:31.

clothes. One was female. She was very strict and persuasive and

:21:32.:21:35.

managed to persuade the young woman to come down off the windowsill, sit

:21:36.:21:37.

on the bed and proper matters through. This made it quite clear,

:21:38.:21:45.

she made it quite clear that she needed psychiatric help. Much effort

:21:46.:21:49.

was put into persuade her is possible to go to a place of safety

:21:50.:21:57.

for psychiatric assistance. This was vehemently refused and when pressed,

:21:58.:22:00.

she struggled to head for the window and jump, yet again. The other four

:22:01.:22:03.

police officers stood on tiptoe those waiting to catch.

:22:04.:22:10.

The question is that this housed in a ledger. -- is that this House

:22:11.:22:16.

should now adjourn. Subtitles will resume

:22:17.:22:22.

on Tuesday In Parliament at 2300.

:22:23.:22:33.