Browse content similar to 29/11/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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continue to work tirelessly to that
end. | 0:00:00 | 0:00:01 | |
THE SPEAKER: Order. | 0:00:01 | 0:00:11 | |
I wondered whether you had notice of
any intended statement by the Home | 0:00:51 | 0:00:56 | |
Secretary on this serious matter?
I confess I have no advance notice | 0:00:56 | 0:01:02 | |
of this matter. I am not myself one
who tends to follow what is said on | 0:01:02 | 0:01:09 | |
Twitter, though the honourable
gentleman is almost invariably very | 0:01:09 | 0:01:15 | |
well informed on these matters. The
Home Secretary is welcome to say | 0:01:15 | 0:01:21 | |
something. She is under no
obligation to do so whatsoever. | 0:01:21 | 0:01:27 | |
The right honourable Lady is not
hailing a taxi... LAUGHTER | 0:01:27 | 0:01:35 | |
Very well, in deference to the
seniority of the right honourable | 0:01:35 | 0:01:39 | |
lady. If she has a point of order to
raise, I will hear it. | 0:01:39 | 0:01:44 | |
Further to that point of order, I
understand the woman has already | 0:01:44 | 0:01:47 | |
been convicted of hate crime in this
country, and on that basis, given | 0:01:47 | 0:01:53 | |
the significance and seriousness of
having the president of United | 0:01:53 | 0:01:57 | |
States giving her such a huge
platform, does he not feel it | 0:01:57 | 0:02:01 | |
appropriate for us to hear a word of
condemnation and raising this from | 0:02:01 | 0:02:05 | |
the Home Secretary or the Foreign
Secretary? It is a point of order | 0:02:05 | 0:02:11 | |
for the chair. I can say only that,
at the moment, it would be obvious | 0:02:11 | 0:02:15 | |
to her and her Honourable friend, I
have received no advance notice of | 0:02:15 | 0:02:20 | |
any intention to make a statement.
Order. It would be wrong to expect a | 0:02:20 | 0:02:26 | |
government minister immediately to
respond. The Home Secretary, to be | 0:02:26 | 0:02:31 | |
fair, is under no obligation to do
so. What I would say is, I do know | 0:02:31 | 0:02:34 | |
the honourable gentleman very well,
and if anything, I know the right | 0:02:34 | 0:02:40 | |
honourable lady, because we came
into the House together 20 years ago | 0:02:40 | 0:02:43 | |
even better. Knowing them as well as
I do, I know that when they've got | 0:02:43 | 0:02:50 | |
their teeth into something, they are
disinclined to let go. By the way, | 0:02:50 | 0:02:54 | |
that's a condiment. I think we will
leave it there for now. I rather | 0:02:54 | 0:03:01 | |
imagine this matter will be
mentioned again. If there are no | 0:03:01 | 0:03:04 | |
further points of order, we come now
to the urgent question, Mr Chris | 0:03:04 | 0:03:09 | |
Leslie.
Can I ask the Chancellor of | 0:03:09 | 0:03:16 | |
Exchequer to advise the House on the
cost of exiting the European Union. | 0:03:16 | 0:03:23 | |
Mr Speaker...
Our negotiating team are currently | 0:03:23 | 0:03:29 | |
in Brussels discussing our exit from
the European Union. In fact, our | 0:03:29 | 0:03:34 | |
officials have been working on it
for months. It would be completely | 0:03:34 | 0:03:38 | |
wrong of me to cut across those
discussions by commenting on | 0:03:38 | 0:03:44 | |
speculation on the financial
settlement. And it would not be in | 0:03:44 | 0:03:48 | |
our national interest. The Prime
Minister made it clear in her | 0:03:48 | 0:03:52 | |
Florence speech, that EU member
states would not need to pay more or | 0:03:52 | 0:03:55 | |
receive less money over the
remainder of the current budget, as | 0:03:55 | 0:03:59 | |
a result of our decision to leave.
She also made it clear, the UK will | 0:03:59 | 0:04:05 | |
honour its commitments made during
the period of membership in the | 0:04:05 | 0:04:08 | |
spirit of our future partnership. As
we have said before, nothing is | 0:04:08 | 0:04:14 | |
agreed until everything is agreed.
And that any settlement we make is | 0:04:14 | 0:04:18 | |
contingent on us securing a suitable
outcome, as outlined by the Prime | 0:04:18 | 0:04:25 | |
Minister in her Florence speech. We
will meet our commitments, and also | 0:04:25 | 0:04:30 | |
get a good deal for the UK taxpayer.
We want to see progress towards our | 0:04:30 | 0:04:37 | |
preferred option, which is an
increment Asian period, followed by | 0:04:37 | 0:04:40 | |
an ambitious future economic
partnership. In the budget, we set | 0:04:40 | 0:04:46 | |
aside £3 billion in addition to the
700 million we've already allocated | 0:04:46 | 0:04:50 | |
to make sure that our country is
fully prepared for revenge well it | 0:04:50 | 0:04:55 | |
is. What we have seen today is
simply media speculation, and we | 0:04:55 | 0:05:00 | |
will update the House when there is
more detail to give. Mr Chris | 0:05:00 | 0:05:04 | |
Leslie. Mr Speaker, the British
people were promised a dividend from | 0:05:04 | 0:05:10 | |
Brexit. They were told leaving the
EU would save a fortune. Those that | 0:05:10 | 0:05:15 | |
campaigned for Brexit daubed their
hubris across the side of a giant | 0:05:15 | 0:05:21 | |
red Basque, promising a windfall of
£350 billion for the NHS per week. | 0:05:21 | 0:05:27 | |
That wasn't just a whopping lie, it
was the direct opposite of the truth | 0:05:27 | 0:05:33 | |
-- £350 million. Will the Chief
secretary confirmed that? If the | 0:05:33 | 0:05:37 | |
divorce Bill comes in between £47
billion in six to £7 billion, that | 0:05:37 | 0:05:42 | |
would be a payment of £1000 from
every man, woman and child in this | 0:05:42 | 0:05:49 | |
country, £1000. Isn't this
speculated divorce Bill just the tip | 0:05:49 | 0:05:53 | |
of the iceberg? If we are honest
about the true cost of Brexit, | 0:05:53 | 0:05:57 | |
should we add in the lost revenues
to the Exchequer, something of the | 0:05:57 | 0:06:03 | |
order of £20 billion by 2021. And
also that £3.7 billion of Brexit | 0:06:03 | 0:06:09 | |
preparations for those duplicated
agencies, new border arrangements, | 0:06:09 | 0:06:12 | |
Lori Parks in Dover, and so forth,
and the higher cost of living for | 0:06:12 | 0:06:16 | |
all of our constituents as prices
keep rising. Can I ask the chief | 0:06:16 | 0:06:24 | |
secretary, how did her constituents
react to the idea that they will be | 0:06:24 | 0:06:26 | |
lumbered with these extra costs?
Don't they ask her, what exactly are | 0:06:26 | 0:06:31 | |
we getting for this? What wondrous
new advantages will we gain by | 0:06:31 | 0:06:37 | |
shelling out these astronomical
sons? When the chief secretary be | 0:06:37 | 0:06:40 | |
straight to the House that we are
paying for the privilege of putting | 0:06:40 | 0:06:44 | |
the world's most efficient free
trade tariff free frictionless | 0:06:44 | 0:06:47 | |
agreement into the bin, and we're
being told to pay for the privilege | 0:06:47 | 0:06:54 | |
of downgrading to an inferior deal
with our European neighbours? Why is | 0:06:54 | 0:06:59 | |
the chief secretary being so coy
about the deal that is being done? | 0:06:59 | 0:07:03 | |
They've gone from go whistle to
where do we sign in a week. A week | 0:07:03 | 0:07:10 | |
when the government won't fully
publish the Brexit impact papers to | 0:07:10 | 0:07:13 | |
the House, we hear rumours that
Parliament and the public may never | 0:07:13 | 0:07:18 | |
be told the full amount. When will
Parliament be told what is actually | 0:07:18 | 0:07:22 | |
happening, and will we get a vote on
the sums of money involved? Will she | 0:07:22 | 0:07:26 | |
right here and right now Scotch this
nonsense that the true cost of | 0:07:26 | 0:07:31 | |
Brexit will be hidden away in a
convenient backroom deal in a | 0:07:31 | 0:07:35 | |
negotiation? The British people need
to know, is there a deal? How much | 0:07:35 | 0:07:41 | |
have the government put on the table
in the negotiations, and if she | 0:07:41 | 0:07:44 | |
won't tell us, why does she think
that the only people who can't be | 0:07:44 | 0:07:49 | |
told the British public and the
British Parliament? This is not what | 0:07:49 | 0:07:53 | |
the British public for in the
referendum. It is not taking back | 0:07:53 | 0:07:57 | |
control, it is losing control. I can
tell the honourable gentleman what | 0:07:57 | 0:08:04 | |
my constituents say, what they say
is, the country has voted to leave | 0:08:04 | 0:08:08 | |
the European Union.
And what they want to see is ask it | 0:08:08 | 0:08:12 | |
on with it and secure the best
possible deal for Britain. If we | 0:08:12 | 0:08:18 | |
look at the opposition benches, we
see people like the honourable | 0:08:18 | 0:08:21 | |
gentleman that asked the question,
who voted to stay in the single | 0:08:21 | 0:08:25 | |
market and Customs union, we see
members on the front bench that | 0:08:25 | 0:08:28 | |
voted to leave the single market,
the customs union. Today, we read | 0:08:28 | 0:08:34 | |
the Shadow Home Secretary wants
there to be a second referendum. | 0:08:34 | 0:08:36 | |
This is not remotely helpful in
securing the best possible deal. And | 0:08:36 | 0:08:45 | |
the honourable gentleman knows
personally well, we are in | 0:08:45 | 0:08:48 | |
negotiations as we speak. If, in
this House, were we to talk about | 0:08:48 | 0:08:54 | |
numbers and the aspects of the deal,
that would cut across our | 0:08:54 | 0:08:59 | |
negotiating position. What the
people of Britain want to see is ask | 0:08:59 | 0:09:03 | |
it on with it, they want to see us
take the advantages of leaving the | 0:09:03 | 0:09:07 | |
European Union, make the most of
those opportunities, secure the best | 0:09:07 | 0:09:11 | |
possible deal. We are well on the
way to doing that. I suggest to the | 0:09:11 | 0:09:18 | |
honourable gentleman, rather than
trying to re-fight the referendum | 0:09:18 | 0:09:21 | |
battle, which is exactly what he
seems to be doing, he needs to get | 0:09:21 | 0:09:26 | |
with the programme and start talking
about how he can be helpful. Mr | 0:09:26 | 0:09:30 | |
Kenneth Clarke. Mr Speaker, would my
right honourable friend agree that | 0:09:30 | 0:09:36 | |
the government of any EU member
state could possibly be expected to | 0:09:36 | 0:09:41 | |
agree that we should have a good
future trading and economic racial | 0:09:41 | 0:09:48 | |
chip with the union, whilst at the
same time repudiates our past | 0:09:48 | 0:09:54 | |
financial obligations, and are
somehow refusing to pay a fair share | 0:09:54 | 0:09:57 | |
of the costs of agencies and so on
that we will incur in the future. We | 0:09:57 | 0:10:01 | |
should therefore agree, those that
oppose paying any money are | 0:10:01 | 0:10:05 | |
presumably wanting a no deal Brexit.
That would actually be catastrophic | 0:10:05 | 0:10:11 | |
for the country, and would stop the
opportunity of having a deal that | 0:10:11 | 0:10:18 | |
retains as many benefits for jobs,
investment, and the growth of the | 0:10:18 | 0:10:23 | |
economy of this country as we
possibly can in the future. | 0:10:23 | 0:10:29 | |
As the Prime Minister laid out in
her Florence speech, we do want to | 0:10:29 | 0:10:35 | |
abide by our commitments made during
our period of membership, and we | 0:10:35 | 0:10:39 | |
also want to see progress on
securing a deal. The right | 0:10:39 | 0:10:43 | |
honourable gentleman is right. Any
settlement that we seek to achieve | 0:10:43 | 0:10:50 | |
has to be contingent on getting a
suitable outcome from those | 0:10:50 | 0:10:55 | |
negotiations as outlined by the
Prime Minister. Because what we want | 0:10:55 | 0:10:58 | |
to make sure is that any money spent
is value for money for the British | 0:10:58 | 0:11:02 | |
taxpayer. Mr Speaker, can I thank my
honourable friend from Nottingham | 0:11:02 | 0:11:09 | |
East for raising this critical
question today. As we all know, | 0:11:09 | 0:11:13 | |
settling this issue is vital to
continuing to the next part of the | 0:11:13 | 0:11:16 | |
negotiations. Given that progress
has been so much slower than we | 0:11:16 | 0:11:20 | |
would have hoped, the opposition is
supportive of efforts to resolve | 0:11:20 | 0:11:24 | |
this part of the negotiations as
soon as is feasible, so we can start | 0:11:24 | 0:11:27 | |
to make progress to end uncertainty
impacting jobs and the economy. We | 0:11:27 | 0:11:32 | |
believe the financial settlement
with the EU must meet our | 0:11:32 | 0:11:37 | |
international obligations, while
delivering a fair deal for British | 0:11:37 | 0:11:40 | |
taxpayers. The UK is a responsible
country, and there is no mileage in | 0:11:40 | 0:11:44 | |
us refusing to meet our obligations.
And if we are going to negotiate the | 0:11:44 | 0:11:51 | |
comprehensive deal with the European
Union which we need, we do need to | 0:11:51 | 0:11:53 | |
be seen as a country that can be
trusted to comply with the deals we | 0:11:53 | 0:11:56 | |
reach. Given our long-standing
membership of the EU, this | 0:11:56 | 0:12:01 | |
cultivation will understandably be
complex. We appreciate the | 0:12:01 | 0:12:05 | |
government cannot announce a figure
publicly at this stage, given it is | 0:12:05 | 0:12:08 | |
a sensitive part of the
negotiations. But what we would | 0:12:08 | 0:12:12 | |
argue for instead is that the
government must be transparent about | 0:12:12 | 0:12:16 | |
the process, especially once an
understanding has been reached with | 0:12:16 | 0:12:19 | |
our EU partners. This is why we have
tabled an amendment to the | 0:12:19 | 0:12:23 | |
withdrawal of all, that calls for
any financial settlement to be | 0:12:23 | 0:12:27 | |
agreed by the National order office
and for Parliament to have the | 0:12:27 | 0:12:30 | |
chance to scrutinise it. The
government's handling of the | 0:12:30 | 0:12:34 | |
presentation of the impact
assessment studies to parliament has | 0:12:34 | 0:12:35 | |
left a lot to be desired. Can I
therefore ask the chief secretary to | 0:12:35 | 0:12:41 | |
promise the government will support
the amendment in the interest of | 0:12:41 | 0:12:43 | |
transparency and clarity?
I thank the honourable gentleman for | 0:12:43 | 0:12:51 | |
his supportive comments, and I'm
glad he agrees with the government | 0:12:51 | 0:12:55 | |
strategy. I think the next step will
be making sure his backbench | 0:12:55 | 0:12:57 | |
colleagues also agree with his
strategy. He's absolutely right, we | 0:12:57 | 0:13:04 | |
should not reveal the of
negotiations while they are ongoing. | 0:13:04 | 0:13:10 | |
I should point out to the honourable
gentleman that the approach of the | 0:13:10 | 0:13:14 | |
opposition by saying that any deal
is better than no deal is not the | 0:13:14 | 0:13:17 | |
best way of securing a deal. We also
are preparing for all eventualities, | 0:13:17 | 0:13:31 | |
that's why we're preparing and
putting in £3 billion. I would | 0:13:31 | 0:13:37 | |
suggest that the opposition should
also should support that was | 0:13:37 | 0:13:43 | |
possible approach. Sir Iain Duncan
Smith. Can I say to my right | 0:13:43 | 0:13:46 | |
honourable friend that I am not in
favour of anything that is not | 0:13:46 | 0:13:51 | |
legal, so I support her completely,
and I am in line with my right | 0:13:51 | 0:13:56 | |
honourable friend that got up
earlier. What ever the legal | 0:13:56 | 0:14:02 | |
equipment -- agreement is, could she
please remind those who have raised | 0:14:02 | 0:14:06 | |
this question that even if we agree
of something in the region of 40 | 0:14:06 | 0:14:11 | |
billion over the period of years, we
are not paying a conclusion, the UK | 0:14:11 | 0:14:18 | |
Exchequer would be better off by
£360 million in the course of that | 0:14:18 | 0:14:22 | |
40 years, a net gain with a free
trained arrangement. | 0:14:22 | 0:14:30 | |
My right honourable friend makes a
very fair point. Whatever happens, | 0:14:30 | 0:14:34 | |
we are not going to be paying
anything like what we would have | 0:14:34 | 0:14:37 | |
paid as an EU member, this
represents a considerable saving to | 0:14:37 | 0:14:47 | |
the British taxpayer. Thank you to
the member for Nottingham East for | 0:14:47 | 0:14:50 | |
bringing this matter to the House.
There would be no newspaper rumours | 0:14:50 | 0:14:56 | |
about the sum of the Government told
us what this was. Nobody voted for | 0:14:56 | 0:15:01 | |
disastrous, disorganised EU exit.
People voted for £350 million a week | 0:15:01 | 0:15:08 | |
for the NHS, not to spend 40 or £50
billion just to be worse off. Our | 0:15:08 | 0:15:14 | |
public services must not pay the
price for this Brexit method. It | 0:15:14 | 0:15:18 | |
surprised us all when earlier this
year the Prime Minister found a | 0:15:18 | 0:15:23 | |
magic monetary. Surely the
Government cannot have been lucky | 0:15:23 | 0:15:27 | |
enough to find truth -- a magic
money tree. Will there be a | 0:15:27 | 0:15:39 | |
emergency budget for him to explain
where he is finding the money? I | 0:15:39 | 0:15:43 | |
thought, Mr Speaker, when the
honourable lady said it was going to | 0:15:43 | 0:15:46 | |
be to thank the Government for the
£2 billion additional spending power | 0:15:46 | 0:15:50 | |
that we've gave to the Scottish
Government in the budget, which no | 0:15:50 | 0:15:55 | |
doubt they will be able to use to
improve their services. As I've said | 0:15:55 | 0:16:05 | |
before and, indeed, as has been
pointed out by the opposition front | 0:16:05 | 0:16:08 | |
to talk about the money now would
cut across the local Shia shins and | 0:16:08 | 0:16:14 | |
prevent us from getting the best
possible deal. That is not in | 0:16:14 | 0:16:21 | |
anybody's interests. -- would cut
across the negotiations and prevent | 0:16:21 | 0:16:25 | |
us. The comprehensive preparations
for an ordeal, it is important we | 0:16:25 | 0:16:29 | |
are not up against the clock at the
end, forced into a bad deal because | 0:16:29 | 0:16:34 | |
we have no alternative. -- for no
deal. Will she confirmed that the | 0:16:34 | 0:16:41 | |
advantage of no deal has the
advantage of not having to pay any | 0:16:41 | 0:16:48 | |
divorce bill? My honourable friend
is correct. It is irresponsible of | 0:16:48 | 0:16:53 | |
the opposition front bench to
suggest that any deal is better than | 0:16:53 | 0:16:57 | |
older. That is the way that we are
not going to get our preferred | 0:16:57 | 0:17:01 | |
option, and implementation period
plus our preferred economic | 0:17:01 | 0:17:10 | |
partnership. -- is better than no
deal. We have allotted millions of | 0:17:10 | 0:17:16 | |
pounds to prepare for all
eventualities. The UK is currently a | 0:17:16 | 0:17:21 | |
member of a large number of EU
agencies, from that deal with | 0:17:21 | 0:17:26 | |
aviation safety to the European
medicine's agency. Has the | 0:17:26 | 0:17:32 | |
Government made an assessment of the
likely cost to the Exchequer of | 0:17:32 | 0:17:35 | |
having to replicate all of those
conscience and activities if the | 0:17:35 | 0:17:40 | |
Government eventually decides that
we have to leave all of them because | 0:17:40 | 0:17:45 | |
of its stated principle objection to
the ECJ having any jurisdiction over | 0:17:45 | 0:17:49 | |
the UK? I've been very clear with
the House already that we are | 0:17:49 | 0:17:57 | |
preparing for all eventualities and,
of course, looking at the specifics | 0:17:57 | 0:18:00 | |
of those agencies as part of that.
Mr David Jones. As my right one | 0:18:00 | 0:18:09 | |
friend has pointed out, in her
fluent speech, the premise to make a | 0:18:09 | 0:18:13 | |
fair and generous offer to the EU.
-- macaw. Given that Article 50 of | 0:18:13 | 0:18:21 | |
the treaty provides that the
negotiations that are currently | 0:18:21 | 0:18:26 | |
underway should be conducted, taking
into account the future relationship | 0:18:26 | 0:18:30 | |
between the EU and UK, it is high
time that the EU reciprocated and | 0:18:30 | 0:18:36 | |
started adhering to its obligations
under the treaty. As my honourable | 0:18:36 | 0:18:43 | |
friend points out, it is important
that we move onto the next stage of | 0:18:43 | 0:18:46 | |
the negotiations and talk about a
long-term relationship with the EU | 0:18:46 | 0:18:53 | |
wants his left and that's exactly
what we are seeking to do. -- with | 0:18:53 | 0:19:00 | |
the EU once we've left and that.
Following the answer, all of our | 0:19:00 | 0:19:05 | |
consistence saw the slogan on the
side of the bus and if the | 0:19:05 | 0:19:11 | |
Government continues to say nothing
and keeps radio silence for a long | 0:19:11 | 0:19:15 | |
time and then suddenly plucks a
figure out of the hat at the end of | 0:19:15 | 0:19:18 | |
a process, it will be corporates but
everybody. Surely she can tell the | 0:19:18 | 0:19:23 | |
House but the kinds of things the
Government thinks it should be | 0:19:23 | 0:19:28 | |
funding, pension contributions or
whatever else, surely she can tell | 0:19:28 | 0:19:31 | |
us the kind of things rather than
just leaving everybody in the dark? | 0:19:31 | 0:19:38 | |
I refer the honourable lady to the
Prime Minister's Florence speech, | 0:19:38 | 0:19:42 | |
where she laid out commitments that
we want to continue and honour after | 0:19:42 | 0:19:48 | |
we left the EU in the spirit of our
future partnership. The honourable | 0:19:48 | 0:19:54 | |
lady has to be aware that this is
part of a discussion which is also | 0:19:54 | 0:20:01 | |
about our future relationship and
all of those elements are contingent | 0:20:01 | 0:20:04 | |
on securing all future relationship
as the Prime Minister laid out in | 0:20:04 | 0:20:11 | |
the Florence speech. It would be
wrong at this stage, from the point | 0:20:11 | 0:20:14 | |
of view negotiations and
transparency to the public, to lay | 0:20:14 | 0:20:21 | |
out something before it is fully
agreed, that would not help. Perhaps | 0:20:21 | 0:20:30 | |
on the far side of the chamber they
would like to look at the | 0:20:30 | 0:20:34 | |
prospective budget put out by
economists for free trade the week | 0:20:34 | 0:20:38 | |
before the budget, with a exciting
prospectus that the economy will | 0:20:38 | 0:20:43 | |
grow at 3% a year by 2025, providing
surplus of £60 billion, which easily | 0:20:43 | 0:20:51 | |
cut covers the bill. It is dependent
on reciprocal free trade with no | 0:20:51 | 0:20:58 | |
terrorists. Can my -- with no
tariffs. Can can we have a deal on | 0:20:58 | 0:21:10 | |
reciprocal free trade and zero
tariffs? I fear my honourable friend | 0:21:10 | 0:21:17 | |
is overoptimistic if he thinks he
can stop the opposition benches | 0:21:17 | 0:21:20 | |
being miserable!
LAUGHTER | 0:21:20 | 0:21:23 | |
With drivers for four days of budget
debate and have so far been | 0:21:23 | 0:21:29 | |
unsuccessful. -- we have tried this
for four days. The honourable friend | 0:21:29 | 0:21:36 | |
is right about the benefits of free
trade for the UK. We are seeking a | 0:21:36 | 0:21:41 | |
good deal that benefit the UK in
London. Mr Speaker. At least 45 | 0:21:41 | 0:21:47 | |
billion higher inflation in debt, an
extra year of cuts and less | 0:21:47 | 0:21:50 | |
influence in the world is the price
the Government and willing to pay | 0:21:50 | 0:21:55 | |
for it to the division of Great
Britain post-Brexit. Is there any | 0:21:55 | 0:22:01 | |
level of damage the UK economy, jobs
and families have to sustain which | 0:22:01 | 0:22:06 | |
will cause the Government to
rethink, give the people involved on | 0:22:06 | 0:22:09 | |
the deal supported by the Liberal
Democrats, the London mayor and now | 0:22:09 | 0:22:14 | |
the Shadow Home Secretary, as I
understand it? I say regrettably | 0:22:14 | 0:22:19 | |
that the misery has spread to the
Liberal Democrat benches, this is to | 0:22:19 | 0:22:23 | |
be a contagion is on the benches
opposite. I would welcome the fact | 0:22:23 | 0:22:29 | |
that we have the lowest unemployment
in this country that we've had for | 0:22:29 | 0:22:33 | |
40 years. We have the third highest
number of start-ups in the world, a | 0:22:33 | 0:22:37 | |
record number for this country. The
positive benefits that we see from | 0:22:37 | 0:22:43 | |
the actions of this Conservative
Government. John Baron. Most of us, | 0:22:43 | 0:22:52 | |
social and newsletters, except that
a good trade deal is better than | 0:22:52 | 0:22:54 | |
older, that there is always give and
take in a negotiation and it is | 0:22:54 | 0:22:59 | |
important that we meet our financial
equipment commitments. Does she | 0:22:59 | 0:23:04 | |
accept that this is likely a storm
in a teacup because nothing is | 0:23:04 | 0:23:08 | |
agreed until everything is agreed?
It is important to make this point | 0:23:08 | 0:23:12 | |
and not listen to the siren voices
that refuse to accept the result of | 0:23:12 | 0:23:17 | |
the referendum. The a few siren
voices. Incredibly, there are | 0:23:17 | 0:23:25 | |
people, particularly by the
opposition benches, that still do | 0:23:25 | 0:23:30 | |
not accept democracy and the fact
that people did vote to leave the | 0:23:30 | 0:23:33 | |
EU. Chris Bryant. The Government is
keeping its cards so close to its | 0:23:33 | 0:23:41 | |
just that I suspect they haven't
even looked at them themselves. The | 0:23:41 | 0:23:45 | |
left-hander not know what the right
hand is saying, the Government | 0:23:45 | 0:23:49 | |
minister is making it clear that
they will play a lot of money for a | 0:23:49 | 0:23:53 | |
outcome. Boris Johnson told the has
confidently that they should go | 0:23:53 | 0:24:01 | |
whistle. What should they go
whistle? Stand And Deliver, Your | 0:24:01 | 0:24:11 | |
Money Or Your Life? The honourable
manner be aware that there is | 0:24:11 | 0:24:17 | |
considerable work going across
Government. -- man will be aware. It | 0:24:17 | 0:24:20 | |
is in a country's interest to reach
the point where we are talking about | 0:24:20 | 0:24:26 | |
our long-term economic relationship
with the EU. So Desmond Swayne. She | 0:24:26 | 0:24:34 | |
shouldn't pay more than we all, Mr
Speaker. But she should be confident | 0:24:34 | 0:24:39 | |
that whatever this is it a bargain
against the cost of staying in. My | 0:24:39 | 0:24:45 | |
honourable friend makes a good point
that, you know, as we stay in, where | 0:24:45 | 0:24:53 | |
are we to stay in, the cost would be
considerably higher than any amount | 0:24:53 | 0:24:57 | |
we are talking about as part of our
negotiations. Mrs Louise Ellman. The | 0:24:57 | 0:25:06 | |
Government is so intent on keeping
information it has about Brexit | 0:25:06 | 0:25:09 | |
secretive that it is truly risking
of Parliament. As this even more | 0:25:09 | 0:25:19 | |
secretive financial settlement is
negotiated, how can we be sure that | 0:25:19 | 0:25:21 | |
it represents national interests? As
I have pointed out already in this | 0:25:21 | 0:25:28 | |
discussion that we're having, these
negotiations are not yet complete, | 0:25:28 | 0:25:33 | |
is not a number that we can disclose
to the House. When there is one and | 0:25:33 | 0:25:38 | |
when there is more detail to give,
we will come to the House and talk | 0:25:38 | 0:25:42 | |
about it. Mr Robert Halfon. Thank
you, Mr Speaker. Does my honourable | 0:25:42 | 0:25:50 | |
friend agree that a good budget and
good housekeeping and the pressures | 0:25:50 | 0:25:55 | |
on public spending, that if the
oppression is given that we have | 0:25:55 | 0:25:59 | |
wads of cash and loads of money when
it comes to Europe that it | 0:25:59 | 0:26:02 | |
undermines our argument only the
public sector and the neutral good | 0:26:02 | 0:26:09 | |
housekeeping, especially since the
House of Lords says there is no | 0:26:09 | 0:26:15 | |
legal and financial obligations? --
and the need for a good | 0:26:15 | 0:26:18 | |
housekeeping. This is not a divorce
bill. We are leaving a club, once | 0:26:18 | 0:26:22 | |
you leave a copy no longer have the
basic scriptures. -- once you leave | 0:26:22 | 0:26:28 | |
a club, you no longer have to pay
subscription. Debt is following as a | 0:26:28 | 0:26:35 | |
proportion of GDP for the first time
in 13 years. -- is falling as a | 0:26:35 | 0:26:40 | |
proportion. You are keeping with the
deficit targets. We were able to | 0:26:40 | 0:26:44 | |
freeze full duty to help ordinary
working people who need to keep | 0:26:44 | 0:26:50 | |
their living costs down. -- fuel
duty. The reality is that as we | 0:26:50 | 0:26:55 | |
leave the EU we will not longer be
paying those vast sums of money in | 0:26:55 | 0:27:00 | |
and that will represent a benefit to
the taxpayer. Is the Minister aware | 0:27:00 | 0:27:07 | |
that 70% of the people that voted in
both -- in Bolsover voted to leave? | 0:27:07 | 0:27:23 | |
Those same people in Bolsover, I
believe, would expect me to tell the | 0:27:23 | 0:27:27 | |
honourable lady from the finance
department that if they've got £60 | 0:27:27 | 0:27:31 | |
billion to spare it should go to the
National Health Service and social | 0:27:31 | 0:27:37 | |
care. The honourable gentleman will
be well aware that as part of last | 0:27:37 | 0:27:44 | |
week's budget we were able to put
additional money into the National | 0:27:44 | 0:27:51 | |
Health Service, hospital capital,
making sure that we hit our A&E | 0:27:51 | 0:28:00 | |
targets and with nurses pay. Doctor
Gillian Lewis. These negotiations | 0:28:00 | 0:28:09 | |
remind me of the even more complex
ones on arms reductions in the | 0:28:09 | 0:28:14 | |
1980s. Will the Minister Bear in
mind that the lessons of those | 0:28:14 | 0:28:20 | |
negotiations were first that too
many one-sided concessions project | 0:28:20 | 0:28:25 | |
an image of weakness and secondly in
order to get the very best deal you | 0:28:25 | 0:28:30 | |
often have to walk away first and
wait for the other side to agree | 0:28:30 | 0:28:34 | |
with you to sit down, come back and
negotiate realistically? It's | 0:28:34 | 0:28:41 | |
because the need to make sure that
the URL where we have alternatives | 0:28:41 | 0:28:48 | |
that we are preparing -- that the
European Union are aware we have | 0:28:48 | 0:28:54 | |
alternatives that we are preparing
for the option of a transition | 0:28:54 | 0:28:59 | |
period, we are preparing for a no
deal scenario. The opposition would | 0:28:59 | 0:29:04 | |
like to give that option we saw that
we cannot have that discussion with | 0:29:04 | 0:29:08 | |
the EU. There are two salient
features about the news that is | 0:29:08 | 0:29:14 | |
emerging. The first, this is the
opposite to what was promised during | 0:29:14 | 0:29:18 | |
the referendum. We were promised the
judge and £50 million a week more | 0:29:18 | 0:29:23 | |
and now the cupboard is set to pay
up to 50 billion when our | 0:29:23 | 0:29:27 | |
constituents need money for health,
housing and more. What is it that we | 0:29:27 | 0:29:34 | |
are paying for? Other countries pay
significant sums to get into | 0:29:34 | 0:29:39 | |
physical market, we are lining up to
pay up to £50 billion to leave the | 0:29:39 | 0:29:43 | |
single market. -- to get into the
single market. Isn't the tragedy | 0:29:43 | 0:29:48 | |
that these huge sums are paying for
a worse deal than we have at | 0:29:48 | 0:29:53 | |
present? That's hardly strategic. | 0:29:53 | 0:30:02 | |
As I have said before, nothing is
agreed until everything is agreed, | 0:30:02 | 0:30:06 | |
and we will expect to make progress
and secure that long-term economic | 0:30:06 | 0:30:12 | |
partnership, which will be to the
benefit of UK citizens. Mr Jason | 0:30:12 | 0:30:16 | |
Rees Mogg. Will my right honourable
friend note the growing concern that | 0:30:16 | 0:30:23 | |
Her Majesty's government seems in
these negotiations to be dancing to | 0:30:23 | 0:30:26 | |
the tune of the European Commission.
Can I ask her further to the | 0:30:26 | 0:30:30 | |
question of my right honourable
friend, the Member for North | 0:30:30 | 0:30:34 | |
Shropshire, if she can be certain
that after 29th March, 2019, that we | 0:30:34 | 0:30:41 | |
will make no payment to the European
Union whatsoever in the absence of a | 0:30:41 | 0:30:46 | |
full agreement covering trade. I can
assure my honourable friend that we | 0:30:46 | 0:30:55 | |
are not dancing to anyone's tune.
What we care about is the future of | 0:30:55 | 0:31:00 | |
written's economy, protecting the
British taxpayer from access | 0:31:00 | 0:31:06 | |
payments, and making sure we secure
a good deal, which is why it is so | 0:31:06 | 0:31:11 | |
important we don't discuss these
numbers whilst we are in the middle | 0:31:11 | 0:31:16 | |
of a very important negotiation.
Jonathan Edwards. Mr Speaker, I have | 0:31:16 | 0:31:23 | |
been informed by a public financial
auditor that international | 0:31:23 | 0:31:26 | |
accounting standard on provisions
requires the UK Government to | 0:31:26 | 0:31:31 | |
account for the divorce to be met as
expenditure, even if the exact | 0:31:31 | 0:31:38 | |
amount cannot become chelated. Given
that the government's accounts the | 0:31:38 | 0:31:42 | |
26th in- 17 did not adequately
exposed, will she give assurances | 0:31:42 | 0:31:52 | |
this provision will be subject to
the vote of this House. That would | 0:31:52 | 0:31:59 | |
be wrong, according to accounting
principles, because nothing has been | 0:31:59 | 0:32:03 | |
agreed, and the Office for Budget
Responsibility followed the Prime | 0:32:03 | 0:32:11 | |
Minister's Florence speech in laying
out their projections for the | 0:32:11 | 0:32:14 | |
budget. I suggest to the honourable
gentleman that he has misinterpreted | 0:32:14 | 0:32:17 | |
those standards.
Can my right honourable friend | 0:32:17 | 0:32:24 | |
confirmed that she does agree with
me that the UK should pay the EU | 0:32:24 | 0:32:29 | |
what we are legally obliged to pay,
not a penny more, and not a penny | 0:32:29 | 0:32:34 | |
less. If so, will she make sure that
before this House votes on the final | 0:32:34 | 0:32:39 | |
Bill, we have an itemised account of
exactly what we are paying for at | 0:32:39 | 0:32:44 | |
the end of it, and also the legal
basis upon which we are making those | 0:32:44 | 0:32:48 | |
payments. Because I had to say, Mr
Speaker, the honourable member for | 0:32:48 | 0:32:53 | |
Bolsover is right, if there is any
spare money going, at a time of | 0:32:53 | 0:32:57 | |
austerity, that should be directed
to our priorities in the UK, it | 0:32:57 | 0:33:01 | |
should not be given to the European
Union that we are not legally | 0:33:01 | 0:33:04 | |
obliged to do. I can assure my
honourable friend that we are | 0:33:04 | 0:33:10 | |
determined to get the best possible
deal for the British taxpayer, and | 0:33:10 | 0:33:15 | |
we need to look at the overall deal
in the round and see what represents | 0:33:15 | 0:33:20 | |
value for money. And absolutely, the
money should be being spent on our | 0:33:20 | 0:33:24 | |
public services, and keeping taxes
low for our hard-working citizens. | 0:33:24 | 0:33:30 | |
Mrs Ellen Goodman. Last week, the
Treasury published the red book, | 0:33:30 | 0:33:37 | |
showing that there would be no more
payments to EU institutions from | 0:33:37 | 0:33:42 | |
2019. The Redbook also said there
was 15 billion head room and debt | 0:33:42 | 0:33:49 | |
would then be falling. Doesn't the
news overnight showed there is a 30 | 0:33:49 | 0:33:55 | |
billion hole in the public finances,
and there is no possibility of debt | 0:33:55 | 0:33:59 | |
falling on this timescale?
The honourable lady is not correct | 0:33:59 | 0:34:04 | |
about that. The OBR have made
predictions on EU payments, and | 0:34:04 | 0:34:10 | |
those are included in the budget. It
was raised by him my honourable | 0:34:10 | 0:34:15 | |
friend at the budget debate last
week. Could the Minister please | 0:34:15 | 0:34:23 | |
confirm that any payments that are
to be offered will be itemised and | 0:34:23 | 0:34:28 | |
set out, so that Parliament can
understand what the constitution of | 0:34:28 | 0:34:31 | |
the payment is going to be, and that
we can therefore put it into the | 0:34:31 | 0:34:35 | |
context of any likely conditioning
that may be required in the context | 0:34:35 | 0:34:39 | |
of any future relationship deal?
I can assure my honourable friend | 0:34:39 | 0:34:45 | |
that the payments that would
potentially be made, and as we have | 0:34:45 | 0:34:54 | |
discussed before, nothing is agreed
until everything is agreed, will be | 0:34:54 | 0:34:57 | |
absolute value for money.
My honourable friend is absolutely | 0:34:57 | 0:35:04 | |
right in his question to highlight
the very serious difficulty the | 0:35:04 | 0:35:08 | |
country now faces, I hope it is true
that agreement has been reached on | 0:35:08 | 0:35:11 | |
the cost of exit, so that
negotiations can move onto the next | 0:35:11 | 0:35:14 | |
stage. As right honourable lady
agreed with me, it is essential in | 0:35:14 | 0:35:20 | |
the UK national interest that the
European Council at his meeting next | 0:35:20 | 0:35:25 | |
month agreed that enough progress
has been made to move on to | 0:35:25 | 0:35:28 | |
discussions about future trade.
We absolutely want to secure moving | 0:35:28 | 0:35:36 | |
onto the next stage of these
negotiations. That is very | 0:35:36 | 0:35:41 | |
important. Ultimately, it takes the
UK and EU 27 to agree on that, and | 0:35:41 | 0:35:48 | |
what would be wrong is to take the
approach of the opposition and say | 0:35:48 | 0:35:52 | |
we will agree to any deal regardless
of what it is. We have do look at | 0:35:52 | 0:35:58 | |
all eventualities, and make sure we
are prepared for all eventualities. | 0:35:58 | 0:36:04 | |
Does my right honourable friend
agree with me that the message from | 0:36:04 | 0:36:08 | |
the doom mongers is the British
public have given their verdict, and | 0:36:08 | 0:36:11 | |
expect Parliament to deliver, and
the doom mongers should recognise we | 0:36:11 | 0:36:17 | |
are the fifth strongest economy in
the world. Our population is | 0:36:17 | 0:36:21 | |
significantly more than 15 EU
countries put together, and it is | 0:36:21 | 0:36:26 | |
high time they started talking up
Britain, rather than talking us | 0:36:26 | 0:36:29 | |
down. My honourable friend is right.
The opposition benches refuse to see | 0:36:29 | 0:36:39 | |
any of the positive things that are
happening in our country, whether | 0:36:39 | 0:36:44 | |
it's the lowest youth unemployment
for over 13 years, whether it is the | 0:36:44 | 0:36:47 | |
highest number of start-ups the
country has seen, there are great | 0:36:47 | 0:36:52 | |
things having. Let's see more
optimism on the opposition. | 0:36:52 | 0:37:00 | |
At no point were we told that it
could cost a week, and we certainly | 0:37:00 | 0:37:06 | |
weren't told that you could make
them worse off. If it is the case, | 0:37:06 | 0:37:10 | |
as we have been told, that we will
be much better off as a result of | 0:37:10 | 0:37:15 | |
this, and as the right honourable
lady promised a moment ago, there | 0:37:15 | 0:37:20 | |
will be considerable savings. Would
she promised that the savings will | 0:37:20 | 0:37:23 | |
be used to replace those programmes
currently funded by the EU, like for | 0:37:23 | 0:37:27 | |
example, the crucial skills
programme operating in the Black | 0:37:27 | 0:37:32 | |
Country.
There will be savings once we leave | 0:37:32 | 0:37:39 | |
the European Union. I have already
made that clear. We want to make | 0:37:39 | 0:37:42 | |
sure that they are spent in the best
interests of everybody in the UK to | 0:37:42 | 0:37:48 | |
make our country as successful as it
possibly can be. | 0:37:48 | 0:37:50 | |
So Henry Bellingham. The Chief
Secretary will be very aware that | 0:37:50 | 0:37:56 | |
both her constituents and mine voted
overwhelmingly to leave. We'll see | 0:37:56 | 0:38:01 | |
also agree, and does she feel on the
ground that most people now want to | 0:38:01 | 0:38:04 | |
get on with Brexit, but also expect
the UK to be fair, generous and | 0:38:04 | 0:38:10 | |
magnanimous, so long as the
financials at it is contingent on a | 0:38:10 | 0:38:12 | |
free-trade deal? As my honourable
friend points out, the people of | 0:38:12 | 0:38:19 | |
Norfolk are fair-minded people, they
want to see the referendum result | 0:38:19 | 0:38:23 | |
respected, they want to see us
honour our commitments to the | 0:38:23 | 0:38:30 | |
European Union, but they want to see
it in such a way that is fair for | 0:38:30 | 0:38:33 | |
Britain, fair for British taxpayers,
and make sure we get the best | 0:38:33 | 0:38:38 | |
possible deal.
Mr Stephen Dowty. These figures are | 0:38:38 | 0:38:43 | |
astronomical, is it not the case
that the British public already | 0:38:43 | 0:38:45 | |
paying for the costs of this Dodt's
Brexit approach in the form of the 3 | 0:38:45 | 0:38:50 | |
billion that was announced in the
budget to be spent on Brexit | 0:38:50 | 0:38:53 | |
contingencies. 700 million has
already been shelled out, should | 0:38:53 | 0:38:56 | |
people have been told that before
the referendum? I do think it is | 0:38:56 | 0:39:01 | |
completely irresponsible of the
opposition to suggest that we should | 0:39:01 | 0:39:05 | |
not prepare for all eventualities.
It would be disgraceful for the | 0:39:05 | 0:39:12 | |
government not to do that. It would
not be the proper action of a | 0:39:12 | 0:39:15 | |
responsible government.
Mr Peter Bone. For the first time in | 0:39:15 | 0:39:23 | |
my parliamentary career, I'm going
to agree with the honourable member | 0:39:23 | 0:39:25 | |
for Bolsover. He's absolutely right,
the 60 odd percent of the people in | 0:39:25 | 0:39:30 | |
Wellingborough who voted to leave
will want to know what we are doing | 0:39:30 | 0:39:36 | |
with £60 billion, they would want it
spent on the NHS, social care and | 0:39:36 | 0:39:40 | |
defence. They would not want it
given to the European Union. Would | 0:39:40 | 0:39:46 | |
the Minister agree, such a move
would be betraying the trust of the | 0:39:46 | 0:39:50 | |
British people?
The money that we've been reading | 0:39:50 | 0:39:59 | |
about in the press is speculation.
These negotiations are ongoing, the | 0:39:59 | 0:40:04 | |
discussion is ongoing, and we want
to secure value for money for the | 0:40:04 | 0:40:10 | |
British taxpayer. It's in our
interests to secure a long-term | 0:40:10 | 0:40:14 | |
economic partnership with the
European Union, but we will not be | 0:40:14 | 0:40:19 | |
paying over money until everything
is agreed. Mr Speaker, page 25 of | 0:40:19 | 0:40:28 | |
the Governor's brand-new industrial
strategy doctrine states the | 0:40:28 | 0:40:32 | |
governed are seeking a transition...
sorry, and impermanent Haitian | 0:40:32 | 0:40:36 | |
period of around two years. Does
this reported deal include provision | 0:40:36 | 0:40:40 | |
for paying for an extended deal
beyond two years? These negotiations | 0:40:40 | 0:40:47 | |
are taking place at the moment. We
want to secure a reasonable | 0:40:47 | 0:40:52 | |
transition deal, but we have to know
what the future relationship is | 0:40:52 | 0:40:57 | |
going to be like before we enter
into that transition deal, because | 0:40:57 | 0:41:02 | |
the British public would not accept
the can being kicked down the road, | 0:41:02 | 0:41:06 | |
they want to know we are leaving the
European Union. Mr Richard Graham. | 0:41:06 | 0:41:13 | |
The greatest risk to the new
partnership that both the UK and EU | 0:41:13 | 0:41:18 | |
want is that the EU makes such
unreasonable demands that no British | 0:41:18 | 0:41:23 | |
Government could accept on the wrong
assumption that this House will | 0:41:23 | 0:41:28 | |
never vote for no deal. Does my
right honourable friend agree with | 0:41:28 | 0:41:32 | |
me that all members, who want a good
meal like the members for Nottingham | 0:41:32 | 0:41:36 | |
East, Dudley North, Wolverhampton
South East and Cardiff South should | 0:41:36 | 0:41:40 | |
make it absolutely clear to their
constituents that they do not | 0:41:40 | 0:41:43 | |
subscribe to the ludicrous idea that
any deal is better than no deal. | 0:41:43 | 0:41:49 | |
I fear that the members opposite
have not made that logical leap yet, | 0:41:49 | 0:41:55 | |
but I'm sure my honourable friend's
question will have helped them | 0:41:55 | 0:41:59 | |
reconsider in their own minds.
Extraordinary behaviour. Quite | 0:41:59 | 0:42:08 | |
extraordinary behaviour. It was good
of you to drop in on us. | 0:42:08 | 0:42:21 | |
Can she name a single aspect or any
moments in any aspect of the | 0:42:21 | 0:42:27 | |
negotiations so far in which the
government has gone head-to-head | 0:42:27 | 0:42:32 | |
with the EU 27 on an issue on which
they have competing ideas about what | 0:42:32 | 0:42:40 | |
to do and have come out on top? Or
is this yet another example of the | 0:42:40 | 0:42:44 | |
government crumbling and facing up
to the reality of leaving the EU? | 0:42:44 | 0:42:49 | |
We are making continuous progress in
our negotiations with the EU, and of | 0:42:49 | 0:42:57 | |
course, in any negotiation, there
has to be give and take from both | 0:42:57 | 0:43:00 | |
sides, and that is exactly what is
happening. But it would be wrong to | 0:43:00 | 0:43:06 | |
expose the details of those
negotiations at this stage. | 0:43:06 | 0:43:10 | |
Mr Philip Hollobone. In a divorce,
the assets are divided. That in | 0:43:10 | 0:43:16 | |
today's money, in real terms, our
net could abuse and to the EU over | 0:43:16 | 0:43:21 | |
the whole lifetime of our membership
amounts to £209 billion, will she | 0:43:21 | 0:43:26 | |
make sure that we get our fair share
of the EU's assets when we leave? | 0:43:26 | 0:43:32 | |
I can assure my honourable friend
that that consideration is part of | 0:43:32 | 0:43:37 | |
our discussions.
Before making a big decision, it's | 0:43:37 | 0:43:45 | |
generally sensible to enquire about
the price. Most people would be | 0:43:45 | 0:43:48 | |
staggered to learn that the average
household in this country is going | 0:43:48 | 0:43:52 | |
to be asked to stump up between
£2000 in £3000 to pay for this. Can | 0:43:52 | 0:43:57 | |
the government tell us what plans
they have to tell people about this | 0:43:57 | 0:44:00 | |
Bill they are facing, and ask them
whether they think it's a good use | 0:44:00 | 0:44:03 | |
of their money? The honourable
gentleman needs to look at both | 0:44:03 | 0:44:09 | |
sides of the account, because we
will not be paying ongoing vast sums | 0:44:09 | 0:44:14 | |
into the EU and we are at the
moment. It is deliberately big | 0:44:14 | 0:44:21 | |
picture. | 0:44:21 | 0:44:28 | |
Order. Statement of the Secretary of
State for Transport. Secretary Chris | 0:44:28 | 0:44:33 | |
Grayling. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I
like to make a step into the House | 0:44:33 | 0:44:38 | |
about our plans for Britain.
Railways. -- a statement to the | 0:44:38 | 0:44:42 | |
House. It was against the backdrop
of what any people would regard as | 0:44:42 | 0:44:50 | |
terminal decline. They had been cut
and line closures, passenger numbers | 0:44:50 | 0:44:55 | |
have been falling steadily since the
Second World War. Privatisation | 0:44:55 | 0:45:00 | |
sparked a remarkable turnaround in
Lee Rowley's fortunes. Over 1.5 | 0:45:00 | 0:45:07 | |
million more trains. Passenger
demand has doubled. Other countries | 0:45:07 | 0:45:13 | |
are now adopting Great Britain's
model in their markets. We have | 0:45:13 | 0:45:19 | |
about upon the biggest rail
modernisation programmes and the | 0:45:19 | 0:45:22 | |
Victorian age. In addition to
Government funding, billions of | 0:45:22 | 0:45:28 | |
pounds from the private sector is
being used to update services across | 0:45:28 | 0:45:33 | |
the country. Franchises are making
an increasing conservation to the | 0:45:33 | 0:45:36 | |
public purse. The real renaissance
we see today is the direct result of | 0:45:36 | 0:45:44 | |
the partnership between the public
and private sectors. This | 0:45:44 | 0:45:46 | |
partnership has delivered benefits
for passengers from more than 20 | 0:45:46 | 0:45:50 | |
years. This success has created its
own challenges, the number of | 0:45:50 | 0:45:55 | |
services has increased and the
network has become more congested. | 0:45:55 | 0:46:02 | |
He will be as operating on the edge
of what it can cope with. It carries | 0:46:02 | 0:46:09 | |
more passengers today than it did in
the heyday of the 1920s on a network | 0:46:09 | 0:46:13 | |
that is a fraction of the size. This
can cause significant frustration | 0:46:13 | 0:46:20 | |
for the travelling public. This as
well as Jack and announced plans for | 0:46:20 | 0:46:25 | |
-- it should be a process of
evolution and the revolution and | 0:46:25 | 0:46:32 | |
that the exact approach may differ
from our written every. The outcome | 0:46:32 | 0:46:35 | |
must be the same, a railway
predominately run by a local team of | 0:46:35 | 0:46:42 | |
people with a commitment to the
smooth running of the timetable. The | 0:46:42 | 0:46:46 | |
planning of Central press,
responding to incidents underline | 0:46:46 | 0:46:49 | |
and communicating with passengers.
-- central repairers. This | 0:46:49 | 0:46:56 | |
publication, Connecting People, a
strategic vision for railways. There | 0:46:56 | 0:47:06 | |
is a relentless focus on passengers,
economies and communities they | 0:47:06 | 0:47:10 | |
serve. It represents the biggest
change in the railways since | 0:47:10 | 0:47:16 | |
privatisation. Although we have
achieved significant structural | 0:47:16 | 0:47:24 | |
improvements, the document explains
pounds to go much further. It will | 0:47:24 | 0:47:27 | |
deliver real benefits and franchises
will be run by a joint team, made up | 0:47:27 | 0:47:36 | |
of staff from Network Rail and a new
alliance to vector. This will make | 0:47:36 | 0:47:40 | |
the world a more alive for
passengers. -- the railway more | 0:47:40 | 0:47:45 | |
reliable. Today, Mr Speaker, I
issued the invitation to tender for | 0:47:45 | 0:47:54 | |
the next south-eastern franchise.
This will amongst other rich things | 0:47:54 | 0:48:00 | |
-- either things provide more
trains. A high-frequency turn up and | 0:48:00 | 0:48:04 | |
go timetable as a problem that,
which will boost capacity and | 0:48:04 | 0:48:09 | |
provide a better service for
passengers. As part of this | 0:48:09 | 0:48:12 | |
unification of track and drink, the
day-to-day operations in the | 0:48:12 | 0:48:15 | |
south-eastern network will be run by
a joint team rugby a new alliance | 0:48:15 | 0:48:20 | |
director, hitting both the tack and
train operations. We will introduce | 0:48:20 | 0:48:27 | |
a joint team approach, bringing more
benefits to passengers. Honourable | 0:48:27 | 0:48:30 | |
members will know that these calls
me and has had its challenges in | 0:48:30 | 0:48:34 | |
recent times and I intend to take a
different approach. -- the east | 0:48:34 | 0:48:42 | |
coast railway has had his
challenges. It partnership between | 0:48:42 | 0:48:47 | |
public and private sector will
operate under one management, one | 0:48:47 | 0:48:51 | |
single leader, with a leading role
in planning the future of root and | 0:48:51 | 0:48:57 | |
meeting challenges. Bringing the
prospective train operators in will | 0:48:57 | 0:49:03 | |
make sure that passenger needs are
better represented in the process. | 0:49:03 | 0:49:07 | |
Whilst we run an opposition to
appoint the east coast partnership | 0:49:07 | 0:49:11 | |
members, we are in discussions with
the east coast... I want the | 0:49:11 | 0:49:20 | |
passenger to be central to train
operator strategies. In some parts | 0:49:20 | 0:49:25 | |
of the network, this means
introducing smaller train companies | 0:49:25 | 0:49:27 | |
and today I am and using a
constitutional and a Great Western | 0:49:27 | 0:49:33 | |
franchise to make sure that it is
best meeting the needs passengers in | 0:49:33 | 0:49:39 | |
the 2020s and beyond. -- the needs
of passengers. Sure to be a more | 0:49:39 | 0:49:45 | |
local focus? Will also bring the
Thames Link great Northern Frank | 0:49:45 | 0:49:53 | |
Scott... When the two factors are
put together, this was intended to | 0:49:53 | 0:49:59 | |
help. This is now near completion.
Despite the improvements in railway | 0:49:59 | 0:50:06 | |
since privatisation, we are still
some way away from achieving the | 0:50:06 | 0:50:11 | |
modern, high performance, low cost
industry we all want to see. | 0:50:11 | 0:50:18 | |
SHOUTING that is why we must
continue to invest in the | 0:50:18 | 0:50:21 | |
welterweight and maximise.
Continue to deliver the biggest | 0:50:21 | 0:50:27 | |
investment programme in our Railways
since the steel age. Something the | 0:50:27 | 0:50:31 | |
party opposite never get when they
were in Government. Mr Speaker, | 0:50:31 | 0:50:36 | |
getting to grips with the industry
structure will go hand-in-hand with | 0:50:36 | 0:50:40 | |
investment in infrastructure. We did
me a capacity to cope with growing | 0:50:40 | 0:50:44 | |
demand and links to support economic
growth. -- we need more capacity to | 0:50:44 | 0:50:48 | |
cope. We need faster more
comfortable journeys, room for tens | 0:50:48 | 0:50:54 | |
of thousands more passengers, every
single train in the north of England | 0:50:54 | 0:50:58 | |
replaced as new or brand-new. Again
a change we never sought when the | 0:50:58 | 0:51:03 | |
party opposite was in power.
SHOUTING. I intend to invest around | 0:51:03 | 0:51:10 | |
£3 billion in upgrading the
trans-Pennine brick, delivering | 0:51:10 | 0:51:14 | |
faster journey times and improved
capacity between the great cities of | 0:51:14 | 0:51:18 | |
Leeds, York and Manchester.
In the south, flagship projects such | 0:51:18 | 0:51:22 | |
as Crossrail and Thameslink I know
-- I know underpinning economic | 0:51:22 | 0:51:30 | |
growth. North and south will be
brought closer together and benefits | 0:51:30 | 0:51:33 | |
for people across the country. A new
building for a new era for real. It | 0:51:33 | 0:51:38 | |
is bold and ambitious but if it
weren't for Britain faith in the | 0:51:38 | 0:51:43 | |
power of rail to transform this
country, we would have no railways | 0:51:43 | 0:51:46 | |
at all. Our mission rejects the
mentality of decline that | 0:51:46 | 0:51:52 | |
characterised the railway and latter
half of the past century. Recently | 0:51:52 | 0:51:59 | |
introduced Government funding of
billions of pounds. Part of overall | 0:51:59 | 0:52:09 | |
suspected spent £49 billion, Mr
Speaker. There will be either far to | 0:52:09 | 0:52:15 | |
work and improvements. Passengers
value reliability more than anything | 0:52:15 | 0:52:18 | |
and this commitment will help
deliver that. We also want to see | 0:52:18 | 0:52:22 | |
the creation of new connections. We
want to establish the east-west rail | 0:52:22 | 0:52:26 | |
company to restore the lost liberty
not Oxford and -- the lowest rate | 0:52:26 | 0:52:31 | |
between Oxford and Cambridge. I
expect construction to begin next | 0:52:31 | 0:52:38 | |
summer. We will look at other
opportunities to find out what has | 0:52:38 | 0:52:44 | |
been lost in the 60s and 70s. In
particular, with the unlucky -- the | 0:52:44 | 0:52:53 | |
unlock the potential for housing.
Passengers want faster improvements | 0:52:53 | 0:52:57 | |
in the day-to-day experience
travelling. We also want this and | 0:52:57 | 0:53:00 | |
bring something about it. We want to
see smart ticketing across all of | 0:53:00 | 0:53:05 | |
the network by the end of 2018. We
are improving the arrangements for | 0:53:05 | 0:53:11 | |
compensation when things go wrong,
including establishing a passenger | 0:53:11 | 0:53:15 | |
ombudsman. We are working with
industry to extend the benefits of | 0:53:15 | 0:53:19 | |
discarded real travel to ensure that
everybody aged 16-30 can access | 0:53:19 | 0:53:26 | |
concessions. We are committed to
improving the accessibility of the | 0:53:26 | 0:53:30 | |
network and delivering a modern
customer experience is open to all. | 0:53:30 | 0:53:34 | |
Mr Speaker, and only party opposite
doesn't believe this, but | 0:53:34 | 0:53:39 | |
privatisation body revolution to our
railways. This is why there are | 0:53:39 | 0:53:42 | |
twice as many passengers as there
were 20 years ago. Now there is a | 0:53:42 | 0:53:48 | |
chance to build on this success.
Expand the network, modernising the | 0:53:48 | 0:53:54 | |
experience of the customer, opening
up for new innovation. We have a | 0:53:54 | 0:53:58 | |
vision of a writer most will be used
to its full potential within a | 0:53:58 | 0:54:04 | |
private -- between the private
sector and public sector. We are | 0:54:04 | 0:54:08 | |
taking action to make this a
reality. I am making copies | 0:54:08 | 0:54:14 | |
available in both houses and the
documents are on the Department for | 0:54:14 | 0:54:20 | |
Transport's website. Andy McDonald.
Thank you. As like to thank the | 0:54:20 | 0:54:29 | |
secretary of state with the advanced
orders of the statement and the | 0:54:29 | 0:54:32 | |
contents have already been well
drilled in the media. The Secretary | 0:54:32 | 0:54:35 | |
of State and I can be on the need
real has for investment and new | 0:54:35 | 0:54:40 | |
capacity. I'm delighted to see that
he has picked up on Labour's | 0:54:40 | 0:54:45 | |
manifesto commitments to reopen
punch lines. The problem, Mr | 0:54:45 | 0:54:48 | |
Speaker, is that the current system
and the structure of the railways | 0:54:48 | 0:54:51 | |
doesn't send -- lent itself will. --
to reopen branch lines. The office | 0:54:51 | 0:55:03 | |
for a rail and road said that
Network Rail had to make efficiency | 0:55:03 | 0:55:07 | |
savings of 80%, the law are our got
this wrong and the railway has | 0:55:07 | 0:55:15 | |
suffered the consequences. We are
where we are on rail and air brake | 0:55:15 | 0:55:18 | |
that the secretary of state has not
run out of ideas what to do with the | 0:55:18 | 0:55:23 | |
railways. Labour has a solution
which I will refer to momentarily. | 0:55:23 | 0:55:29 | |
SHOUTING. The secretary of state
proposes an alliance between crack | 0:55:29 | 0:55:36 | |
and train a a few years ago. This
was done in a few years ago between | 0:55:36 | 0:55:40 | |
Stagecoach and Network Rail in the
south-west. Stagecoach pulled out | 0:55:40 | 0:55:46 | |
because it was too expensive for
them. Trains on the east coast may | 0:55:46 | 0:55:50 | |
be labelled Virgin Trains but they
are actually Stagecoach. What makes | 0:55:50 | 0:55:56 | |
the secretary of state think that
this alliance with Stagecoach will | 0:55:56 | 0:55:59 | |
be any different. Gigi was always
going to be broken up at the end of | 0:55:59 | 0:56:03 | |
the contract and disaster 21, so
this isn't news. It's a calamitous | 0:56:03 | 0:56:08 | |
oversight of the contract only add
to the origin need for the whole | 0:56:08 | 0:56:14 | |
thing to be put out of its misery
for the sake of the passengers. Only | 0:56:14 | 0:56:17 | |
adds to the. The new privately
funded line will operate with | 0:56:17 | 0:56:26 | |
polluting diesel trains. What about
the quality? Labour supports | 0:56:26 | 0:56:30 | |
reopening lines but without
financial backing the Secretary of | 0:56:30 | 0:56:34 | |
State's proposals mean nothing in
reality. It's always -- it's all | 0:56:34 | 0:56:40 | |
well and good to reverse the cut but
what about reversing the Grayling | 0:56:40 | 0:56:47 | |
cuts? The cuts to the Midwestern,
railway and Northern Railways. The | 0:56:47 | 0:56:54 | |
Department of Health and we'll bring
-- the reopening between County | 0:56:54 | 0:57:02 | |
Durham and play. If it's all right
with him, I prefer applied and | 0:57:02 | 0:57:06 | |
Ashington stay in Northumberland. --
I prefer four replies and Ashington | 0:57:06 | 0:57:13 | |
to stay. He offers nothing for
commuters on overcrowded trains, | 0:57:13 | 0:57:18 | |
facing a fee hike of 3.4% in
January, 337.7% rises since 2010. | 0:57:18 | 0:57:25 | |
The truth is that the railway is
broken, no matter of changing the | 0:57:25 | 0:57:31 | |
furniture will rectify this. Today's
and unspent as a total smoke screen. | 0:57:31 | 0:57:39 | |
-- announcement is a total smoke
screen. The east coast franchise has | 0:57:39 | 0:57:44 | |
felt again and the taxpayer will
bail it out. Markets don't lie and | 0:57:44 | 0:57:48 | |
the Stagecoach share price has risen
by 12% this morning, following the | 0:57:48 | 0:57:55 | |
news that the secretary of state has
let them off the hook for hundreds | 0:57:55 | 0:57:59 | |
of millions of pounds by ending the
franchise early, he's moved the | 0:57:59 | 0:58:03 | |
goalposts to suit Grayling. --
research Stagecoach. Easter fun | 0:58:03 | 0:58:10 | |
everybody but the sector. -- he is
tough on everybody but the private | 0:58:10 | 0:58:17 | |
sector. Conservative Pogba put it
back out on the market by 2015. This | 0:58:17 | 0:58:24 | |
felt again. The Government's
proposals are Rover do gracing -- I | 0:58:24 | 0:58:31 | |
know windowdressing. Only Labour has
the vision and courage to deliver | 0:58:31 | 0:58:35 | |
the railway that the public
deserves, the public want public | 0:58:35 | 0:58:40 | |
ownership of the railways at the
next Labour Government will deliver | 0:58:40 | 0:58:42 | |
it. Well, fortunately this country
will be waiting a long time for this | 0:58:42 | 0:58:48 | |
to happen. Mr Speaker, what they
really wanted to take us back to the | 0:58:48 | 0:58:53 | |
days of British rail and what they
haven't done is expected as how they | 0:58:53 | 0:58:58 | |
would pay for all the new trains
that are being currently funded by | 0:58:58 | 0:59:02 | |
the private sector to pay for longer
trains, better services all around | 0:59:02 | 0:59:06 | |
the country. They haven't told us
that the public and one well we -- a | 0:59:06 | 0:59:15 | |
public than well they would mean it
would be competing with the health | 0:59:15 | 0:59:20 | |
service, etc. To go back to British
Rail is no answer to the | 0:59:20 | 0:59:25 | |
improvements that this country
needs. What is different is what is | 0:59:25 | 0:59:31 | |
happening in the railway. Devolution
of the railways. Local | 0:59:31 | 0:59:35 | |
decision-making and local budgets
are important to making these local | 0:59:35 | 0:59:40 | |
partnership is possible. That is a
change that we are making right now. | 0:59:40 | 0:59:43 | |
It is the right thing for the
future. When he talks about duty, | 0:59:43 | 0:59:48 | |
can override the House of the
Independent report which showed that | 0:59:48 | 0:59:53 | |
the problems on duty of a
substantial indeed, down to the | 0:59:53 | 0:59:57 | |
actions of its friends in the
unions. That conduct was, Mr | 0:59:57 | 1:00:02 | |
Speaker, unacceptable. The Labour
Party's internal support for the | 1:00:02 | 1:00:08 | |
destruction by three to passengers
is unacceptable. -- disruption by | 1:00:08 | 1:00:14 | |
the unions to passengers. | 1:00:14 | 1:00:23 | |
He may have missed the announcement
in the budget of £2 billion more for | 1:00:25 | 1:00:31 | |
investment in transport in our
cities, he may have missed the | 1:00:31 | 1:00:34 | |
announcement of £47 billion for
investment in the railways in the | 1:00:34 | 1:00:37 | |
next five years, we will indeed fund
investment and expansion of the | 1:00:37 | 1:00:41 | |
railways, because that is needed. He
asked the question about | 1:00:41 | 1:00:45 | |
electrification, and I say again, we
will have more flexible technology, | 1:00:45 | 1:00:49 | |
it is more of a priority to provide
more services and routes for | 1:00:49 | 1:00:53 | |
passengers than to save one minute
on the journey time to Sheffield, | 1:00:53 | 1:00:57 | |
and no minutes on the journey time
to Swansea. I am doing what we need | 1:00:57 | 1:01:00 | |
to do, to deliver better journeys,
better journey times, new trains the | 1:01:00 | 1:01:05 | |
passengers. That above all is what
they want. They are not worried | 1:01:05 | 1:01:08 | |
about how the train is powered, they
want a nice new train that gets them | 1:01:08 | 1:01:12 | |
to the right place. That is what we
are doing. He raised the question | 1:01:12 | 1:01:18 | |
all bluster Ashington, which I am
looking at, and has real potential | 1:01:18 | 1:01:21 | |
to expand the expansion we are
already making. In Newcastle upon | 1:01:21 | 1:01:27 | |
Tyne, it is an example of the
Governor's commitment to the | 1:01:27 | 1:01:30 | |
north-east. He talked about what we
are doing for commuters, but all | 1:01:30 | 1:01:35 | |
around the country, we and the
private sector are delivering new | 1:01:35 | 1:01:38 | |
trains and longer trains to create
more space for people that travel on | 1:01:38 | 1:01:41 | |
crowded rail lines of the day. Let's
be clear to the House, as we bring | 1:01:41 | 1:01:50 | |
this franchise to a close on the
east coast, and moved to new | 1:01:50 | 1:01:53 | |
arrangements, no one is going to get
any bailout at all. Absolutely | 1:01:53 | 1:01:59 | |
clear, Stagecoach will meet in for
their commitments made to the | 1:01:59 | 1:02:03 | |
government as part of this contract.
That is what is going to happen. | 1:02:03 | 1:02:10 | |
I warmly welcome the commitment in
the strategy document to the East | 1:02:10 | 1:02:18 | |
West Railway line through my
constituency. I welcome the | 1:02:18 | 1:02:23 | |
announcement that construction will
start soon. May I ask my honourable | 1:02:23 | 1:02:28 | |
friend to expand on when we will
have the western section and | 1:02:28 | 1:02:32 | |
running, and how it will field into
the national infrastructure | 1:02:32 | 1:02:39 | |
commissions recommendations.
My honourable friend is right. This | 1:02:39 | 1:02:42 | |
is an important project, we have put
ahead construction plans for next | 1:02:42 | 1:02:50 | |
summer. My goal is to have the first
trains running on that route by the | 1:02:50 | 1:02:54 | |
end of 2021.
Alan Browne. Thank you Mr Speaker. I | 1:02:54 | 1:02:59 | |
would like to thank the Secretary of
State for his statement. I have to | 1:02:59 | 1:03:05 | |
thank him for a damp squib. Given
the media coverage last night a | 1:03:05 | 1:03:08 | |
possible reversal of cuts, I wanted
commitments in this statement. There | 1:03:08 | 1:03:14 | |
is nothing other than a throwaway
line. The price of everything and | 1:03:14 | 1:03:22 | |
the value of nothing, if this
attitude continues, the Secretary of | 1:03:22 | 1:03:28 | |
State 's adherence to privatisation,
what he needs to remember, already | 1:03:28 | 1:03:35 | |
there are four foreign state owned
rail companies operational in the | 1:03:35 | 1:03:38 | |
existing UK franchises. If it is
good enough foreign state owned | 1:03:38 | 1:03:43 | |
company is, it is good enough for UK
state companies to run these | 1:03:43 | 1:03:48 | |
franchises. Hopefully, he supports
the Scottish Governor's move to | 1:03:48 | 1:03:51 | |
bring a public sector bid in
Scotland. | 1:03:51 | 1:03:55 | |
He trumpets the turnaround in rail
since privatisation. What he doesn't | 1:03:55 | 1:04:00 | |
say is that is driven by a 90%
increase in public sector | 1:04:00 | 1:04:04 | |
investment, and a real terms fare
increase of a quarter. That is where | 1:04:04 | 1:04:08 | |
the real investment turnaround came
from. His real massive plan is about | 1:04:08 | 1:04:15 | |
creating alliances and effectively
subdividing Network Rail. I have the | 1:04:15 | 1:04:18 | |
following questions... what is going
to be the overall governance to | 1:04:18 | 1:04:24 | |
prevent a reliance conflict? Since
he is such a fan of devolution, will | 1:04:24 | 1:04:29 | |
he devolved Network Rail to
Scotland? Who will be funding the | 1:04:29 | 1:04:34 | |
new 26-30 year old Railcard? Wilbur
Smart meter ticket system | 1:04:34 | 1:04:41 | |
automatically provide consumers with
the cheapest fares? If he is looking | 1:04:41 | 1:04:45 | |
at reopening lines, will he stop the
sale of rail assets? He will be | 1:04:45 | 1:04:53 | |
where the Scottish Government built
the biggest new line in the UK for | 1:04:53 | 1:04:58 | |
over 100 years, will he look at
reconnecting Carlisle to the borders | 1:04:58 | 1:05:01 | |
rail? And finally, what are the
funding implications for Scotland? | 1:05:01 | 1:05:05 | |
Will it be reviewed, the gap of £600
million, and advise on that as well? | 1:05:05 | 1:05:19 | |
Madam Deputy Speaker, a mix of
questions, let me take them in turn. | 1:05:19 | 1:05:23 | |
He asked about the devolution
question. It remains the position of | 1:05:23 | 1:05:27 | |
the government that we will follow
the recommendations that were | 1:05:27 | 1:05:31 | |
brought as part of the broader
devolution package, the Scottish | 1:05:31 | 1:05:35 | |
Governor would be was possible for
franchising, but not infrastructure. | 1:05:35 | 1:05:40 | |
The SNP needs to demonstrate they
can do a decent job in government | 1:05:40 | 1:05:43 | |
with the powers it's got, rather
than asking for more powers. He | 1:05:43 | 1:05:47 | |
asked about the Railcard, that is
something we are working through | 1:05:47 | 1:05:51 | |
with the industry. It may be the
revenues provide a self funding | 1:05:51 | 1:05:56 | |
venture, but it is something the
Treasury has underwritten in the | 1:05:56 | 1:06:00 | |
budget process. He asked a question
about the length of fairness, the | 1:06:00 | 1:06:04 | |
level of fares and the cheapest
options. I want a system of Smart | 1:06:04 | 1:06:09 | |
ticketing on our railways. For
shorter journeys, in future, we end | 1:06:09 | 1:06:13 | |
up with the sort of pay as a system
that we have in London, tap in and | 1:06:13 | 1:06:18 | |
tap out as you go. For longer
journeys, we will have ticketing | 1:06:18 | 1:06:21 | |
based on mobile phones and bar
codes. We are working towards those | 1:06:21 | 1:06:25 | |
objectives. He talked about the sale
of assets, there are times when | 1:06:25 | 1:06:29 | |
assets are not needed. They can be
sold and money is put back into the | 1:06:29 | 1:06:33 | |
rail line. That is the right thing
to do. But there are assets to | 1:06:33 | 1:06:36 | |
protect in the future. Assets that I
wish had been built over now, | 1:06:36 | 1:06:41 | |
because there are routes would like
to see we opened which are more | 1:06:41 | 1:06:43 | |
difficult as a result. But we will
protect the assets we need. I | 1:06:43 | 1:06:47 | |
applaud the Scottish Governor for
what it has done on the Borders | 1:06:47 | 1:06:49 | |
railway, it is a good project. It
has made a positive difference to | 1:06:49 | 1:06:53 | |
that part of Scotland. I am happy to
talk about doing more in the future. | 1:06:53 | 1:06:58 | |
He asked about the funding
settlement. As I have said before in | 1:06:58 | 1:07:01 | |
this House, the funding settlement
for Scotland and rail is based on | 1:07:01 | 1:07:05 | |
the following former, normally the
SNP does not argue against the | 1:07:05 | 1:07:09 | |
Barnett Formula. They cannot have
their cake and eat it. | 1:07:09 | 1:07:14 | |
I very much welcome the news that
the GTR franchise is to be broken | 1:07:14 | 1:07:18 | |
up, it is too big to be managed, has
a management incapable of managing | 1:07:18 | 1:07:22 | |
it. Given that it has frequently
been unable to live up to its | 1:07:22 | 1:07:27 | |
commitments, why do we have to wait
until 2021 to get a competent | 1:07:27 | 1:07:30 | |
operator in charge?
Madam Deputy is bigger, the real | 1:07:30 | 1:07:35 | |
thing we have got to achieve is to
get through the rest of the | 1:07:35 | 1:07:38 | |
Thameslink investment programme. --
Madam Deputy Speaker. | 1:07:38 | 1:07:50 | |
I would not wish to see us try to
destabilise things in that period, | 1:07:50 | 1:07:55 | |
once that is done, we need to make
the change. Lilian Greenwood. | 1:07:55 | 1:07:59 | |
Alliance Singh and joint teams can
achieve dialogue, but this is not a | 1:07:59 | 1:08:07 | |
fundamentally different proposition
to what has happened before and what | 1:08:07 | 1:08:09 | |
is happening on certain segments of
the railway now. The factors that | 1:08:09 | 1:08:19 | |
contribute, performance regimes and
financial incentives don't appear to | 1:08:19 | 1:08:22 | |
have been addressed. Will the
Secretary of State set out the | 1:08:22 | 1:08:25 | |
specific steps to address the
shortcomings to have a railway that | 1:08:25 | 1:08:34 | |
drives coordinated performance, cost
reductions and improved reliability? | 1:08:34 | 1:08:41 | |
Madam Deputy Speaker, we are in the
alliance areas and elsewhere moving | 1:08:41 | 1:08:44 | |
to a lined performance incentives,
and that work is happening on great | 1:08:44 | 1:08:50 | |
Western, where we have KPIs. Network
Rail has an incentive to look after | 1:08:50 | 1:08:58 | |
passengers, as they have not done in
the past. The KPIs will be the same, | 1:08:58 | 1:09:04 | |
because one team will do this. That
is one benefit of having somebody in | 1:09:04 | 1:09:08 | |
charge, having a joint round, joint
planning budgets, joint KPIs within | 1:09:08 | 1:09:13 | |
the same team, and that is what is
different to the past. | 1:09:13 | 1:09:19 | |
Can I welcome the Secretary of
State's statement, and this | 1:09:19 | 1:09:22 | |
government's continued investment in
the rail. He will be aware that | 1:09:22 | 1:09:30 | |
concerns have been raised about the
break-up of the great Western | 1:09:30 | 1:09:34 | |
franchise, so could I see kids
reassurance that any proposals that | 1:09:34 | 1:09:37 | |
come forward will not leave Devon
and Cornwall isolated, and will only | 1:09:37 | 1:09:41 | |
be introduced if they are in the
best interest of improving services | 1:09:41 | 1:09:44 | |
to and from the south-west, and
provide value for money for the | 1:09:44 | 1:09:49 | |
passenger? Madam Deputy is weaker,
let's be clear, I do not envisage a | 1:09:49 | 1:09:54 | |
Devon and Cornwall alone franchise,
that is not part of the plan. There | 1:09:54 | 1:09:57 | |
is a legitimate question I am
putting, which is, should we go back | 1:09:57 | 1:10:01 | |
to what was Wessex trains, eight
franchise with a quarter of the | 1:10:01 | 1:10:06 | |
south-west, that does regional
services around the south-west, | 1:10:06 | 1:10:09 | |
which could theoretically do
long-distance services to Paddington | 1:10:09 | 1:10:12 | |
from Penzance, down that route. It
is a question. There are pros and | 1:10:12 | 1:10:17 | |
cons, this is a consultation to ask
the south-west what it thinks. It is | 1:10:17 | 1:10:22 | |
no more or less than that. I want to
get the right answer for the | 1:10:22 | 1:10:24 | |
south-west. Can I welcome today's
big message that our railways work | 1:10:24 | 1:10:32 | |
better when the track and train
operated together. | 1:10:32 | 1:10:41 | |
For my constituents of Surbiton,
however, we look at the urgent | 1:10:43 | 1:10:46 | |
safety case for a new staircase at
Surbiton train station, the | 1:10:46 | 1:10:54 | |
platforms have now become
overcrowded during the evening peak. | 1:10:54 | 1:10:59 | |
Madam David is bigger, I am grateful
to him for his support for moving | 1:10:59 | 1:11:04 | |
back to the operational track and
train, I am happy to talk to pick | 1:11:04 | 1:11:09 | |
that up with him if he wants to
catch me off-line. Martin Vickers. | 1:11:09 | 1:11:16 | |
I welcome the Secretary of State's
statement, and could I clarify, when | 1:11:16 | 1:11:21 | |
he refers to smaller railway
operators, is he referencing open | 1:11:21 | 1:11:26 | |
access operators, and if that is the
case, does he foresee that will lead | 1:11:26 | 1:11:30 | |
to an extension of services such as
in my own area of northern | 1:11:30 | 1:11:33 | |
Lincolnshire?
Mr Speaker... | 1:11:33 | 1:11:37 | |
Madam Eddie Speaker, I am a
supporter of open access, it plays | 1:11:37 | 1:11:40 | |
an important part. -- Madam Deputy
's beaker. | 1:11:40 | 1:11:50 | |
I expect as we move express trains
off the roots, there will be more | 1:11:52 | 1:11:59 | |
scope for open access, not less. It
is not my ambition to see that | 1:11:59 | 1:12:07 | |
changed in coming years.
The East Coast line was run I a | 1:12:07 | 1:12:13 | |
not-for-profit company familiars and
made a profit to the Treasury. | 1:12:13 | 1:12:16 | |
That's not what I want to ask you
for, I want to ask you about the | 1:12:16 | 1:12:20 | |
link I have been campaigning for 30
years to reopen. Now it is going to | 1:12:20 | 1:12:25 | |
be on the cards, I want to tell my
constituents when it is going to | 1:12:25 | 1:12:32 | |
happen, I do want it to be 30 years,
because I will be dead! Madam Deputy | 1:12:32 | 1:12:39 | |
Speaker, I will do my best to ensure
he does not have to work that long. | 1:12:39 | 1:12:42 | |
It is one of the routes where I
think there is a real short-term | 1:12:42 | 1:12:47 | |
potential. I will not put a date on
it today, but integrating it with | 1:12:47 | 1:12:52 | |
the Newcastle upon Tyne Metro makes
a lot of sense, and it is a project | 1:12:52 | 1:12:55 | |
we will now be pushing forward with
the feasibility being planned for. | 1:12:55 | 1:13:01 | |
We are looking at what, when, and
how, I will never give him an exact | 1:13:01 | 1:13:08 | |
date. Madam Deputy Speaker,
Eastleigh is an historic railway | 1:13:08 | 1:13:16 | |
town and transport issues really
matter in my thriving but getting | 1:13:16 | 1:13:21 | |
more busy uncongested constituency
but also hosts Southampton Airport. | 1:13:21 | 1:13:27 | |
East-West connectivity between
Portsmouth and Southampton on a | 1:13:27 | 1:13:30 | |
railway line over an hour, could the
Secretary of State and it working | 1:13:30 | 1:13:35 | |
across departments to make sure
there is a joined up approach for | 1:13:35 | 1:13:40 | |
constituencies who are providing
housing but also are blighted by air | 1:13:40 | 1:13:43 | |
pollution and congestion and a lack
of investment historically in | 1:13:43 | 1:13:47 | |
railway lines. I give my honourable
friend that assurance. It is really | 1:13:47 | 1:13:53 | |
important we make sure, as we seek
to develop more housing, that | 1:13:53 | 1:13:56 | |
infrastructure is in place to cope
without whether it is road, rail or | 1:13:56 | 1:14:00 | |
cycle routes, or whether it is
different forms of public transport | 1:14:00 | 1:14:03 | |
in different parts of the country. I
give her an assurance that both I | 1:14:03 | 1:14:07 | |
and my right honourable friend the
Communities Secretary in charge of | 1:14:07 | 1:14:10 | |
the housing infrastructure fund will
both look very supportive to do in | 1:14:10 | 1:14:14 | |
the parts of the country and how we
can provide info structure for them. | 1:14:14 | 1:14:23 | |
The idea of breaking up the great
Western franchise, because of the | 1:14:23 | 1:14:27 | |
loss of mobility to subsidise the
more expensive bits in the | 1:14:27 | 1:14:34 | |
south-west. Could I ask how much
extra tax payers money he is handing | 1:14:34 | 1:14:39 | |
over to Stagecoach because of the
government's botched and ideological | 1:14:39 | 1:14:43 | |
you driven re-privatisation of what
was a perfectly good and profitable | 1:14:43 | 1:14:46 | |
publicly owned company. | 1:14:46 | 1:14:49 | |
The answer at this stage, it's not
my intention to hand over money to | 1:14:49 | 1:14:55 | |
do things, my intention is to get
this railway line in preparation | 1:14:55 | 1:15:00 | |
phase for the establishment of the
Spanish about with the case of the | 1:15:00 | 1:15:05 | |
Southwest franchise, this is a
consultation, two options, we can | 1:15:05 | 1:15:10 | |
continue with the great Western
franchise as it is create a second | 1:15:10 | 1:15:14 | |
franchise focused on Southwest. Both
arguments, I'm committed to having | 1:15:14 | 1:15:19 | |
more accountability and better
transport in the Southwest, which is | 1:15:19 | 1:15:22 | |
why we are doing the new A303 but
this an open consultation. I | 1:15:22 | 1:15:33 | |
welcomed the statement. I totally
support the notification of -- | 1:15:33 | 1:15:39 | |
reunification of train and track,
it's important when we have rails | 1:15:39 | 1:15:43 | |
problems on the real that the two
operators can argue about who is to | 1:15:43 | 1:15:50 | |
blame when our commuters with a
single body to point a finger at. | 1:15:50 | 1:15:57 | |
Will my honourable friend confirmed
there will be simpler accountability | 1:15:57 | 1:16:00 | |
in the structures and when the
franchise expires in Greater Anglia, | 1:16:00 | 1:16:05 | |
we have the opportunity to look at
this sort of regional arrangements. | 1:16:05 | 1:16:11 | |
I can give this assurance and it
should spread across the whole rail | 1:16:11 | 1:16:15 | |
network where you have
accountability, clear integration, | 1:16:15 | 1:16:19 | |
clear working when something goes
wrong and planning for maintenance | 1:16:19 | 1:16:23 | |
work as to how you deal with the
services when it's happening, this | 1:16:23 | 1:16:26 | |
is a really important part to make
sure the railway works for the | 1:16:26 | 1:16:29 | |
future. | 1:16:29 | 1:16:31 | |
Why didn't the Secretary of State
use this opportunity to say that | 1:16:34 | 1:16:39 | |
there was going to be
electrification of the whole of the | 1:16:39 | 1:16:43 | |
Midland line instead of stopping
somewhere in Northampton to suit the | 1:16:43 | 1:16:49 | |
commuter Travelers into London? The
other business is that people in my | 1:16:49 | 1:16:56 | |
constituency have been asking for a
meeting with him to try to put an | 1:16:56 | 1:17:07 | |
alternative to the spear that going
to wreck 30 houses in my area, when | 1:17:07 | 1:17:11 | |
will he answered a letter, he can
tell me now. | 1:17:11 | 1:17:14 | |
On the latter point, we have an
extended an invitation to have that | 1:17:16 | 1:17:19 | |
meeting. That will make sure we told
to his office this afternoon and fix | 1:17:19 | 1:17:24 | |
a date. In terms of the Midland
mainline, we are about to embark and | 1:17:24 | 1:17:28 | |
are in the early stages of the
biggest investment programme since | 1:17:28 | 1:17:33 | |
the 1870s and will mean faster
journeys, brand-new trains, we can | 1:17:33 | 1:17:39 | |
deliver those new trains in 2021 or
2022. We could wait more for the new | 1:17:39 | 1:17:45 | |
trains, we could spend £1 billion
more and we would do is save one | 1:17:45 | 1:17:49 | |
minute on the journey times. I don't
think that's the good use of | 1:17:49 | 1:17:53 | |
taxpayer's money. I would also like
to welcome my right honourable | 1:17:53 | 1:18:01 | |
friend's statement this afternoon. I
like to ask and what steps are being | 1:18:01 | 1:18:09 | |
taken to improve stations and
disabled access and stations? I | 1:18:09 | 1:18:16 | |
absolutely sure my honourable
friend's concern and the real | 1:18:16 | 1:18:21 | |
minister has made this a particular
part of his work to make sure we | 1:18:21 | 1:18:26 | |
improve the rail network, we will
continue that funding and control | 1:18:26 | 1:18:30 | |
period six and the opportunity will
be there for individual stations and | 1:18:30 | 1:18:33 | |
areas to come forward to as to how
we can do better in and challenge | 1:18:33 | 1:18:39 | |
the real industry faces. It's a year
and a half since the of State | 1:18:39 | 1:18:46 | |
responded to calls to look into
extending the real really delivered | 1:18:46 | 1:18:51 | |
on time and under budget by the
Scottish Government to Carlisle and | 1:18:51 | 1:18:54 | |
she said she was interested in
looking into it. Will he now take | 1:18:54 | 1:18:58 | |
forward these discussions with the
Scottish Government? I'm very happy | 1:18:58 | 1:19:03 | |
to take forward discussions and the
real Minister is meeting the Borders | 1:19:03 | 1:19:07 | |
real campaign shortly. I understand
the benefits that the project has | 1:19:07 | 1:19:13 | |
brought to the Borders. Is my right
honourable friend aware that on the | 1:19:13 | 1:19:20 | |
Isle of Wight there might be
interested in extending the island | 1:19:20 | 1:19:22 | |
lying to the beautiful seaside town
and the county town of Newport? That | 1:19:22 | 1:19:29 | |
can be made possible due to the
foresight of the railway in securing | 1:19:29 | 1:19:33 | |
track. Will there be money available
for feasibility studies to assess | 1:19:33 | 1:19:37 | |
the cost and benefit of opening up
for economic regeneration purposes | 1:19:37 | 1:19:43 | |
former branch lines closed in the
60s? We will be publishing in the | 1:19:43 | 1:19:49 | |
New Year a new process for
evaluating and moving into | 1:19:49 | 1:19:52 | |
development of new projects and I
will be very happy to talk to my | 1:19:52 | 1:19:55 | |
honourable friend about the Isle of
Wight and how that process will work | 1:19:55 | 1:19:58 | |
and how he can get his project into
consideration. I have written to the | 1:19:58 | 1:20:06 | |
Secretary of State about coastal
stations in my constituency but only | 1:20:06 | 1:20:12 | |
one train stopped there and I were,
if we are going to open new real way | 1:20:12 | 1:20:16 | |
stations, we must have trains
stopping at them. So will the | 1:20:16 | 1:20:23 | |
Secretary of State agree to meet
with the railway north to talk about | 1:20:23 | 1:20:28 | |
the frequency of services at coastal
fort so we can get maximum | 1:20:28 | 1:20:32 | |
development and benefit out of this
then -- development. When a new | 1:20:32 | 1:20:40 | |
station is open it is not unusual to
start with an hourly service while | 1:20:40 | 1:20:44 | |
the passenger really builds up to
modern gross. I am delighted we are | 1:20:44 | 1:20:49 | |
able to invest in better station
services. It has been long overdue | 1:20:49 | 1:20:53 | |
for a long time. I welcomed the
overall thrust of this plan. That is | 1:20:53 | 1:21:01 | |
probably no coincidence that current
franchise covers roughly the same | 1:21:01 | 1:21:05 | |
area the railway company did back in
the 1930s. Would he reassure me that | 1:21:05 | 1:21:11 | |
in any consideration of this it will
be services to passengers that will | 1:21:11 | 1:21:15 | |
be the top priority in particular
may the link between London | 1:21:15 | 1:21:21 | |
Paddington? I can give an assurance
that we would want to see the | 1:21:21 | 1:21:24 | |
service is protected. What I would
say is that this is a genuine | 1:21:24 | 1:21:30 | |
consultation, I don't have a preset
to view on this and I'm relaxed and | 1:21:30 | 1:21:33 | |
want to listen to the people who
represent the Southwest and see what | 1:21:33 | 1:21:36 | |
works best with you? We will listen
and respond accordingly. There is no | 1:21:36 | 1:21:45 | |
prejudged view. We are simply asking
the question is parked on the | 1:21:45 | 1:21:54 | |
Secretary of State's U-turn of
electrifying the lead from Cardiff | 1:21:54 | 1:21:58 | |
to Swansea, at the safety
improvements part of that work and | 1:21:58 | 1:22:03 | |
including the level crossing in my
constituency. Can he set out his | 1:22:03 | 1:22:06 | |
plan for his vision for the railways
are he will cause he's dangerous | 1:22:06 | 1:22:10 | |
level crossings and while at it,
keeping a promise on highway | 1:22:10 | 1:22:15 | |
improvements in the same ten in my
constituency went to | 1:22:15 | 1:22:17 | |
electrification? The safety issue is
fundamentally important for Network | 1:22:17 | 1:22:24 | |
Rail and to have this it is really
in Europe and Network Rail has a | 1:22:24 | 1:22:27 | |
rolling programme for replacing
dangerous level crossings which will | 1:22:27 | 1:22:31 | |
continue in all circumstances. What
I would say to him as I think the | 1:22:31 | 1:22:35 | |
Welsh government, the Welsh Labour
government is reaching the same | 1:22:35 | 1:22:38 | |
conclusions which is that the
versatility of trained media don't | 1:22:38 | 1:22:44 | |
always have two get over net cables.
I caution her money talks about is | 1:22:44 | 1:22:46 | |
taking the wrong decisions he may
find that the Labour Party and we | 1:22:46 | 1:22:51 | |
find ourselves on the right track on
the way forward. Can will welcomed | 1:22:51 | 1:22:58 | |
the announcement of the Southern and
ten Link franchise will be broken | 1:22:58 | 1:23:01 | |
up, it cannot come soon enough for
my constituents. Underlying | 1:23:01 | 1:23:07 | |
reopening, the Uckfield line, it can
be opened easily and would improve | 1:23:07 | 1:23:15 | |
connectivity to the towns on the
mainline for the first time. We have | 1:23:15 | 1:23:18 | |
private investors wanting to bid of
£15 billion to fund that, will the | 1:23:18 | 1:23:24 | |
Secretary of State use that scheme
as the first to illustrate what can | 1:23:24 | 1:23:27 | |
be done by Jamaat I have met the
investors pursuing this project I am | 1:23:27 | 1:23:34 | |
open to doing so unwitting with
interest to see as they come back | 1:23:34 | 1:23:37 | |
with a first aid at work, I would be
delighted to see this route reopened | 1:23:37 | 1:23:41 | |
and I hope the consortium that are
pursuing this project proved to be | 1:23:41 | 1:23:45 | |
successful in what they are trying
to do. There appears to be little | 1:23:45 | 1:23:52 | |
mention of Wales in the Secretary of
State's announcement in the great | 1:23:52 | 1:23:57 | |
Western consultation but key
services to my constituency and just | 1:23:57 | 1:24:01 | |
this morning commuters to Bristol
and beyond have yet again had to | 1:24:01 | 1:24:04 | |
highlight the chronic lack of
capacity to demand. Can the Minister | 1:24:04 | 1:24:09 | |
tell my constituents when they will
see real action and improvement? | 1:24:09 | 1:24:14 | |
Most of the responsibility of the
local services lies with the Welsh | 1:24:14 | 1:24:18 | |
government. I'm looking forward to
seeing the outcome of the Welsh | 1:24:18 | 1:24:24 | |
government's work in delivering new
trains and delivering better | 1:24:24 | 1:24:28 | |
services from the new franchise. In
terms of what we're doing for her | 1:24:28 | 1:24:32 | |
constituency, we have
electrification programme to | 1:24:32 | 1:24:36 | |
Paddington, the investment in
intercity express trains for faster | 1:24:36 | 1:24:38 | |
and better journeys but I am
expecting and hoping we will see as | 1:24:38 | 1:24:43 | |
part of the franchise, a significant
increase in services from Cardiff | 1:24:43 | 1:24:47 | |
eastwards and one reason we are
supporting the plan for Cardiff | 1:24:47 | 1:24:50 | |
Parkway station and I hope it will
be significant to pass the franchise | 1:24:50 | 1:24:55 | |
to the connection is coming from
Cardiff to Bristol. I found the | 1:24:55 | 1:25:04 | |
Secretary of State for his
statement. East Suffolk line which | 1:25:04 | 1:25:08 | |
runs two Ipswich dodged the bullet
and is now going from strength to | 1:25:08 | 1:25:13 | |
strength with regularly Relay
services. Can my right honourable | 1:25:13 | 1:25:16 | |
friend provide the assurance that
his improvements will provide the | 1:25:16 | 1:25:20 | |
framework for further improvements,
including a more frequent and faster | 1:25:20 | 1:25:24 | |
service? One of the things I'm
pleased about that are doing in | 1:25:24 | 1:25:28 | |
partnership with the private sector
is the complete has formation of the | 1:25:28 | 1:25:32 | |
train service in East Anglia with
brand-new trains. Every single train | 1:25:32 | 1:25:36 | |
being replaced and more capacity for
passengers. As demand grows we will | 1:25:36 | 1:25:39 | |
have to look again at roots like his
to see if there is a need for more | 1:25:39 | 1:25:44 | |
services but in the immediate future
I hope his constituents can be | 1:25:44 | 1:25:47 | |
delighted to see the brand-new
trains arriving and better journeys | 1:25:47 | 1:25:49 | |
for them. The strength and wisdom to
the select committee report, in | 1:25:49 | 1:25:58 | |
stark contrast, the 1993 report
chaired by Robert Adley which | 1:25:58 | 1:26:05 | |
forecast accurately all of the
problems the privatisation would | 1:26:05 | 1:26:09 | |
bring and a unanimous report by a
Tory dominated committee compared to | 1:26:09 | 1:26:15 | |
the statement made today, which
seems nothing more than a piece of | 1:26:15 | 1:26:19 | |
vacuous windowdressing designed to
distract us from the collapsing | 1:26:19 | 1:26:24 | |
policies of the government on
Brexit. There's nothing like trying | 1:26:24 | 1:26:30 | |
to shoot every issue into one
question. The simple reality about | 1:26:30 | 1:26:35 | |
the railways is that back in the
1990s they were in a state of | 1:26:35 | 1:26:38 | |
decline, roots were being closed and
stations as well, back in the days | 1:26:38 | 1:26:42 | |
of British rail that plans to put
the station into a court station, | 1:26:42 | 1:26:46 | |
that was the reality of the days of
British rail. What we have seen in | 1:26:46 | 1:26:49 | |
the last 20 years is new trains, new
routes, double the number of | 1:26:49 | 1:26:53 | |
passengers on the problems we are
dealing with today are problems of | 1:26:53 | 1:26:56 | |
success are not filling and that is
why today it is the right thing to | 1:26:56 | 1:27:00 | |
do, not deciding to start again, to
evolve the real into a place where | 1:27:00 | 1:27:03 | |
they better placed real deal was a
very real challenges that result | 1:27:03 | 1:27:07 | |
from success. The mainline and
northbound service from Kettering is | 1:27:07 | 1:27:18 | |
going from a half hourly service to
one hour service. There are no more | 1:27:18 | 1:27:23 | |
passengers. It's effectively the hub
between the commuter service to | 1:27:23 | 1:27:26 | |
Corby and the mainline northwards
and also now going to be the | 1:27:26 | 1:27:31 | |
interface between the electrified
part of the line and the diesel | 1:27:31 | 1:27:34 | |
operated part of the line. With my
right honourable friend angry with | 1:27:34 | 1:27:38 | |
me that Kettering would be the ideal
place for the new train track | 1:27:38 | 1:27:42 | |
operating team? Kettering is a fine
town. It's a fine constituency and | 1:27:42 | 1:27:51 | |
well represented and I can
understand the case that he would | 1:27:51 | 1:27:55 | |
make to host that operating team and
he is right. One of the places at | 1:27:55 | 1:28:00 | |
the heart of the Midland mainline.
He makes a very strong case for | 1:28:00 | 1:28:05 | |
Kettering. The Chancellor of the
Exchequer last week in the budget | 1:28:05 | 1:28:12 | |
mentioned in North Wales, proposing
a Metro in a more effective way to | 1:28:12 | 1:28:20 | |
connect with North England. As the
Secretary of State had a check on | 1:28:20 | 1:28:26 | |
the Chancellor? When many of us are
my suggestion we looked at that | 1:28:26 | 1:28:29 | |
project and I listen to what he said
to me. The Chancellor has provided | 1:28:29 | 1:28:35 | |
development funding. Building
Alliance and close working between | 1:28:35 | 1:28:42 | |
Network Rail and trade operating
companies in franchises is very much | 1:28:42 | 1:28:47 | |
a welcome move. However I would be
grateful that my right honourable | 1:28:47 | 1:28:50 | |
friend could advise on how Network
Rail will ultimately be held to | 1:28:50 | 1:28:54 | |
account for meeting the terms of
future franchises or contracts just | 1:28:54 | 1:28:58 | |
as currently the train operating
companies are and also whether it | 1:28:58 | 1:29:02 | |
means that infrastructure
improvements will now be considered | 1:29:02 | 1:29:04 | |
as part of the franchising process.
On the latter point, they can be. | 1:29:04 | 1:29:11 | |
They can be no, nothing to prevent
train companies coming forward with | 1:29:11 | 1:29:16 | |
small-scale infrastructure
proposals. My would be happy to see | 1:29:16 | 1:29:19 | |
the private sector come forward with
plans to introduce digital | 1:29:19 | 1:29:23 | |
signalling on their route but we're
not going to move the infrastructure | 1:29:23 | 1:29:28 | |
itself out of public ownership
Footitt the accountability comes | 1:29:28 | 1:29:31 | |
from the performance measures that
are put in place for Network Rail | 1:29:31 | 1:29:34 | |
and for the people who need it. I
think devolution to individual | 1:29:34 | 1:29:38 | |
routes will mean we get better
services and more focus and | 1:29:38 | 1:29:43 | |
out-of-the-box thinking which is
what Network Rail needs to make sure | 1:29:43 | 1:29:45 | |
it has the best value for everyone
involved. | 1:29:45 | 1:29:52 | |
My constituents will be listening
with avid interest because prior to | 1:29:52 | 1:29:58 | |
the general election the Transport
Secretary visited my constituency | 1:29:58 | 1:30:01 | |
and said the reinstatement of the
line to Preston would be a quick | 1:30:01 | 1:30:10 | |
when to help improve rail services
in the North. Perhaps he can tell us | 1:30:10 | 1:30:14 | |
when you will get that quick when
and when funding for this project | 1:30:14 | 1:30:20 | |
and electrification of the area will
be forthcoming. My constituents look | 1:30:20 | 1:30:25 | |
forward to you keeping your promise.
The people of West Lancashire right | 1:30:25 | 1:30:31 | |
now will be getting the benefit of
the investment programme that is | 1:30:31 | 1:30:35 | |
taking place in the line that runs
from Manchester to Blackpool. That | 1:30:35 | 1:30:41 | |
right now is our parity. After that,
I hope we will move forward to other | 1:30:41 | 1:30:45 | |
projects that will make a difference
to passengers in Lancashire and | 1:30:45 | 1:30:51 | |
elsewhere in the North West. I
welcome the statement today. He will | 1:30:51 | 1:30:57 | |
know that 30% of passenger
improvements were due to the new | 1:30:57 | 1:31:04 | |
fleet but 60% is due to the track.
And I urge him for passenger and | 1:31:04 | 1:31:09 | |
freight. Felixstowe carries most of
the freight for this country. Could | 1:31:09 | 1:31:16 | |
I urge him to look at Holly Junction
and Ely Junction as key priorities | 1:31:16 | 1:31:21 | |
in order to deliver better services
for passengers and freight industry? | 1:31:21 | 1:31:28 | |
I can give her that assurance and
reiterate the government has given | 1:31:28 | 1:31:34 | |
the people of East Anglia be in
control period six the work on the | 1:31:34 | 1:31:37 | |
Ely Junction will free up freight
and passenger access through that | 1:31:37 | 1:31:41 | |
important Junction and open up
opportunities across East Anglia. | 1:31:41 | 1:31:47 | |
That will be an early priority for
as. My constituents are used to | 1:31:47 | 1:31:54 | |
travelling on trains run by
Transport for London. Yet he refuses | 1:31:54 | 1:32:05 | |
them to have anything to do with the
Southeastern franchise based on the | 1:32:05 | 1:32:09 | |
fact we have a Labour Amir. My
constituents deserve better than his | 1:32:09 | 1:32:16 | |
petty political grievances. Would he
not allowed Transport for London to | 1:32:16 | 1:32:24 | |
demonstrate that they can run that
franchise more effectively? | 1:32:24 | 1:32:30 | |
Transport for London do not run the
track and trains. What they are | 1:32:30 | 1:32:36 | |
outlining today is more services,
longer trains, and that is a lot | 1:32:36 | 1:32:44 | |
better than what is being put
forward in the business plan from | 1:32:44 | 1:32:49 | |
TEFL. Can the Secretary of State say
what talks he has had with the | 1:32:49 | 1:33:00 | |
northern Para house minister over
the upgrading of the trans-Pennine | 1:33:00 | 1:33:02 | |
routes? Would he consider linking up
the great cities of Liverpool and | 1:33:02 | 1:33:08 | |
Newcastle? We have already
electrified from Manchester to | 1:33:08 | 1:33:16 | |
Liverpool. That has been done. The
next part from Manchester to Leeds, | 1:33:16 | 1:33:22 | |
York. That is the next big real
investment programme. That will be | 1:33:22 | 1:33:29 | |
the next project we go ahead with
and it will make a big difference. I | 1:33:29 | 1:33:37 | |
warmly welcome the announcement
today of the consultation on great | 1:33:37 | 1:33:41 | |
Western franchise and the
improvements that will bring to | 1:33:41 | 1:33:44 | |
passenger services in Devon and
beyond. Can I seek is reassurance | 1:33:44 | 1:33:49 | |
that in the process we will put
focus on real focus between Exeter | 1:33:49 | 1:33:59 | |
and Barnstable? It is not just a
quaint tourist line used in August, | 1:33:59 | 1:34:03 | |
it is a vital access route for
business. He is right. One of the | 1:34:03 | 1:34:11 | |
routes I have said we are now
engaged in working to begin | 1:34:11 | 1:34:14 | |
passenger services on again is the
routes to Exeter where I believe | 1:34:14 | 1:34:19 | |
there is additional potential to
provide better commuter services. | 1:34:19 | 1:34:27 | |
Can he tell us why he is not
electrifying the Midland mainline | 1:34:27 | 1:34:33 | |
when every single business
organisation, member of Parliament | 1:34:33 | 1:34:36 | |
and local council is telling him
that is what he should do? Why is he | 1:34:36 | 1:34:42 | |
ignoring the wishes of local people
and representatives and saying he | 1:34:42 | 1:34:44 | |
knows best and simply offering them
a joint team approach, whatever that | 1:34:44 | 1:34:50 | |
is? The answer to that is simple.
Were delivering over the next four | 1:34:50 | 1:34:55 | |
years the biggest upgrade to the
Midland rail line since the 1870s. | 1:34:55 | 1:35:00 | |
Faster journeys, straightening out
tracks to improve line speeds. | 1:35:00 | 1:35:06 | |
Resignalling in places like Derby.
That will deliver faster journey | 1:35:06 | 1:35:11 | |
times to Sheffield and we will
deliver brand-new trains on that | 1:35:11 | 1:35:15 | |
route in the early 20 20s. I can
then electrify and go further. All | 1:35:15 | 1:35:27 | |
that would do is improve journey
times by one minute and would cost | 1:35:27 | 1:35:36 | |
£1 billion. On behalf of my
neighbour and myself, can I thank | 1:35:36 | 1:35:45 | |
the Secretary of State for coming to
our area and seen the potential. | 1:35:45 | 1:35:48 | |
Page 31 of the document says it will
deliver faster trains from Hastings | 1:35:48 | 1:35:59 | |
and require any better for the
Southeastern franchise to pay | 1:35:59 | 1:36:01 | |
attention to the potential for high
speed rail being extended to | 1:36:01 | 1:36:05 | |
Hastings and Bexhill. Would he agree
with me that this will unlock | 1:36:05 | 1:36:09 | |
regeneration in our constituencies?
He is right. Sometimes it is the | 1:36:09 | 1:36:15 | |
smaller projects that make the
difference. We get very caught up in | 1:36:15 | 1:36:19 | |
the biggest projects. Actually the
smaller projects, even some track | 1:36:19 | 1:36:25 | |
realignment in places, is what makes
the biggest difference to | 1:36:25 | 1:36:28 | |
passengers. And looking to do big
things and small things to try to | 1:36:28 | 1:36:32 | |
improve the situation for
passengers. She will know the | 1:36:32 | 1:36:38 | |
Cumbria coastline is in dire state
of performance at the moment. Is | 1:36:38 | 1:36:45 | |
disappointing Cumbria was not
mentioned at all in the strategy. | 1:36:45 | 1:36:48 | |
Will he agreed to get a real
minister to meet with us to discuss | 1:36:48 | 1:36:53 | |
what can be done about the
50-year-old local motors dashed | 1:36:53 | 1:37:01 | |
locomotives which are breaking down
and annoying residents. The terrible | 1:37:01 | 1:37:07 | |
state of rolling stock and awful
reliability. There is an urgent need | 1:37:07 | 1:37:10 | |
to fix this or there will be
significant damage to the economy. | 1:37:10 | 1:37:17 | |
We are getting new trains on that
route, introducing better and Sunday | 1:37:17 | 1:37:22 | |
services. In this partnership that
exists between us and the Labour | 1:37:22 | 1:37:29 | |
leadership and councils of the North
and transport for the North, will be | 1:37:29 | 1:37:33 | |
working side by side to see this new
franchise, see the replacement of | 1:37:33 | 1:37:37 | |
the rail fleet which the government
is paying for. The first of the new | 1:37:37 | 1:37:42 | |
trains are now entering service.
Every single train on the northern | 1:37:42 | 1:37:53 | |
route is either being replaced or
scrapped. I welcome the real | 1:37:53 | 1:38:05 | |
strategy. I noted in it and in
answer to my friend from Bury St | 1:38:05 | 1:38:12 | |
Edmunds reference improvements on
the improvement works at Ely | 1:38:12 | 1:38:19 | |
Junction. Can he assure me that when
those works are done, which will | 1:38:19 | 1:38:23 | |
benefit the entire region and take
freight off the roads, my | 1:38:23 | 1:38:27 | |
constituents in Queen Adelaide will
not be disadvantages for a affected? | 1:38:27 | 1:38:38 | |
I give her that assurance. I will
work with her and her constituency | 1:38:38 | 1:38:42 | |
make sure this is a beneficial
investment for her part of the world | 1:38:42 | 1:38:46 | |
and win it has any impact, we
minimise them to the maximum | 1:38:46 | 1:38:51 | |
possible extent. I noted what he
said about compensation for | 1:38:51 | 1:38:55 | |
passengers when things go wrong. I
know he is aware of the appalling | 1:38:55 | 1:39:01 | |
service being provided through my
constituency by Northern Rail. This | 1:39:01 | 1:39:13 | |
does not capture the Philip Stevie
Deans my constituents are having. | 1:39:13 | 1:39:18 | |
This is why we are working with the
ombudsman. We recognise there are | 1:39:18 | 1:39:23 | |
circumstances with a conventional
repayment system doesn't reflect the | 1:39:23 | 1:39:29 | |
problems experienced. That will come
into play shortly or working to | 1:39:29 | 1:39:32 | |
deliver that right now. I would like
to thank my noble friend for | 1:39:32 | 1:39:38 | |
statement this afternoon,
particularly around the Southeastern | 1:39:38 | 1:39:40 | |
franchise, which needs to deliver
for the significant number of | 1:39:40 | 1:39:44 | |
house-building were going to be seen
in north Kent over the next 20 | 1:39:44 | 1:39:47 | |
years. My constituents have long
complained. What I would like to ask | 1:39:47 | 1:39:55 | |
my right honourable friend today is
that if there are any further plans | 1:39:55 | 1:40:00 | |
to increase the capacity on the
wonderful high speed WAN network | 1:40:00 | 1:40:04 | |
that runs into my constituency,
because my constituents who want to | 1:40:04 | 1:40:09 | |
use the service are often
complaining of the lack of seats and | 1:40:09 | 1:40:12 | |
the number of trains available. My
honourable friend is right that the | 1:40:12 | 1:40:20 | |
high speed services in Singh Kang
Pierce are pretty full at peak | 1:40:20 | 1:40:28 | |
times. We will see what happens when
the bids come through. It is on | 1:40:28 | 1:40:36 | |
everyone's radar. In 2014, the
previous Tory Prime Minister | 1:40:36 | 1:40:42 | |
described electrification of the
great Western rail line across Wales | 1:40:42 | 1:40:47 | |
as transformational for communities
and huge. Given this government has | 1:40:47 | 1:40:51 | |
no cancelled electrification, why
should my constituents believe Tory | 1:40:51 | 1:41:00 | |
promises on real again? We are
delivering much faster connections | 1:41:00 | 1:41:04 | |
to South Wales. Were improving the
track and signalling. That will make | 1:41:04 | 1:41:11 | |
a transformational difference to the
economy of South Wales. We are | 1:41:11 | 1:41:17 | |
ensuring express trains can go west
of Swansea. We have brand-new trains | 1:41:17 | 1:41:23 | |
in service from Swansea delivering
improved conditions for passengers. | 1:41:23 | 1:41:27 | |
If we are wrecked overhead cables,
it will cost £700 million and | 1:41:27 | 1:41:33 | |
deliver no extra benefits to
passengers, not even one minute of | 1:41:33 | 1:41:37 | |
the journey time. It doesn't make
any sense. I was disappointed the | 1:41:37 | 1:41:43 | |
Secretary of State was not at the
debate on transport in the North on | 1:41:43 | 1:41:48 | |
six November. Having spoken of his
priorities for transforming services | 1:41:48 | 1:41:51 | |
in this country, can he say which he
thinks will happen first, Crossrail | 1:41:51 | 1:41:57 | |
for the North between Liverpool and
Hol, or Crossrail Mach two for a | 1:41:57 | 1:42:03 | |
London between Surrey and
Hertfordshire? These are going to | 1:42:03 | 1:42:08 | |
happen. We will move forward in
lockstep with each other. Are both | 1:42:08 | 1:42:13 | |
important. We will steward them in
parallel. The journey from | 1:42:13 | 1:42:21 | |
Paddington to Cardiff is regularly a
version of hell, to be honest. | 1:42:21 | 1:42:25 | |
Trains are regularly cancelled and
everyone has to do pile onto the | 1:42:25 | 1:42:29 | |
next train often an hour later. My
constituents regularly say to me | 1:42:29 | 1:42:35 | |
that they hear announcements that
the train will be delayed by 20 | 1:42:35 | 1:42:41 | |
minutes because the train is more
overloaded and say. After an | 1:42:41 | 1:42:47 | |
international match, they put on
your trains, not more. It is simply | 1:42:47 | 1:42:55 | |
unfair and wrong. When is he going
to put it right? You will be | 1:42:55 | 1:43:00 | |
delighted to see the arrival of the
new trains which have more seats, | 1:43:00 | 1:43:04 | |
more capacity and will replace long
out of date trains to deliver a | 1:43:04 | 1:43:10 | |
faster and better service for
passengers. Can I firstly thank the | 1:43:10 | 1:43:18 | |
Secretary of State for his
assistance in securing extra money | 1:43:18 | 1:43:21 | |
for North Wales and the budget, but
it was for business case which is | 1:43:21 | 1:43:27 | |
merely a taster. Will he please help
deliver the main chorus of the North | 1:43:27 | 1:43:33 | |
Wales growth deal, which will really
unlock growth in what is one of the | 1:43:33 | 1:43:38 | |
most effective and forward-looking
areas of the national economy? I | 1:43:38 | 1:43:44 | |
know he is asked not just the hors
d'oeuvre, but the full menu. I | 1:43:44 | 1:43:53 | |
thought he at least deserves an
appetiser. The situation north of | 1:43:53 | 1:44:02 | |
Wrexham at the moment is not right.
That is why we agreed to fund the | 1:44:02 | 1:44:08 | |
development of that scheme. And like
to give credit to the Transport | 1:44:08 | 1:44:11 | |
Secretary for acknowledging the
failure on at two occasions of the | 1:44:11 | 1:44:16 | |
private front channels from the East
Coast Main Line. When it was | 1:44:16 | 1:44:21 | |
operated by the UK state owned
direct trains, it generated more | 1:44:21 | 1:44:26 | |
than £100 million of profits for the
Treasury which could be used for | 1:44:26 | 1:44:30 | |
other vital services. My question is
this. What assessment has he made of | 1:44:30 | 1:44:35 | |
the additional costs of the private
and public sector partnership, and | 1:44:35 | 1:44:39 | |
would it not be better to use the
profits to improve the Tyne & Wear | 1:44:39 | 1:44:45 | |
Metro? Rather than swell the coppers
of privately operated train | 1:44:45 | 1:44:51 | |
companies, often owned by
governments from Europe? conundrum, | 1:44:51 | 1:44:55 | |
always from the party opposite about
Brexit but don't seem... They want | 1:44:55 | 1:44:59 | |
to stay in the single market,
continue to operate in the | 1:44:59 | 1:45:02 | |
traditional way but don't want to
work with train companies of other | 1:45:02 | 1:45:06 | |
countries. That is quite illogical.
I am delighted that we as a | 1:45:06 | 1:45:13 | |
government are investing in role in
the north-east, the trade and | 1:45:13 | 1:45:17 | |
investment, the metro, the plan
towards extending the Metro, this is | 1:45:17 | 1:45:19 | |
the right thing to do to help his
constituency and the economy of the | 1:45:19 | 1:45:23 | |
Northeast and I'm proud to be able
to deliver it and it's worth saying | 1:45:23 | 1:45:28 | |
that actually the private sector
franchise on the East Coast mainline | 1:45:28 | 1:45:31 | |
has contributed more to the Treasury
than the public sector wondered. I | 1:45:31 | 1:45:37 | |
wrote to the Secretary of State on
the 23rd of October and I eagerly | 1:45:37 | 1:45:42 | |
await his response. My constituents
are fed up with chronically | 1:45:42 | 1:45:46 | |
overcrowded unreliable trains and
substandard services, can he tell me | 1:45:46 | 1:45:51 | |
what is being taken in order to
monitor the performance delivered by | 1:45:51 | 1:45:54 | |
the train operating companies? She
is right that the constituency have | 1:45:54 | 1:46:02 | |
overcrowded trains and they are not
long enough and have to be replaced | 1:46:02 | 1:46:05 | |
and that is why we are replacing
them with longer trains and that | 1:46:05 | 1:46:07 | |
will make a transformational
difference to her constituents and | 1:46:07 | 1:46:12 | |
others across the North. The
document published today, I was | 1:46:12 | 1:46:19 | |
perplexed that there was no mention
of mutual operators and I can only | 1:46:19 | 1:46:22 | |
assume that an oversight. Can he
actually reinvest profits for the | 1:46:22 | 1:46:32 | |
value of all passengers. Given that,
could I ask him to commit or commit | 1:46:32 | 1:46:37 | |
his real minister to a short meeting
to talk about the barriers faced by | 1:46:37 | 1:46:41 | |
mutual operators. I would be very
happy to see an employee owned bid | 1:46:41 | 1:46:46 | |
to come forward. I would be happy to
see a partnership between employees | 1:46:46 | 1:46:52 | |
and investors to come forward and if
there are artificial barriers, I am | 1:46:52 | 1:46:57 | |
happy to see if we can remove them.
Every line that could be opened seem | 1:46:57 | 1:47:04 | |
to be in England. The Aberystwyth
line was closed due to cut and | 1:47:04 | 1:47:14 | |
reopening it would provide
considerable support and the | 1:47:14 | 1:47:16 | |
significant boost to the economy of
West Wales. With the Secretary of | 1:47:16 | 1:47:20 | |
State and prepare to meet a camping
group to discuss ways of adding this | 1:47:20 | 1:47:23 | |
line to his map of lines that could
be opened? In an construction terms | 1:47:23 | 1:47:31 | |
there is a clear responsibility for
Wills and I want to see Welsh | 1:47:31 | 1:47:35 | |
infrastructure improved and see yet
as a way that can provide extra | 1:47:35 | 1:47:38 | |
service to passengers. The real
minister will be happy to talk to | 1:47:38 | 1:47:45 | |
him on the campaign group about that
and I was talking the other day to | 1:47:45 | 1:47:50 | |
people in Wales and I'm aware that
it's a project that people want to | 1:47:50 | 1:47:53 | |
see. What I would be very clear is
that as we invest in reopening | 1:47:53 | 1:47:57 | |
routes, they have two provide
economic opportunity, housing | 1:47:57 | 1:48:02 | |
opportunity break-up real point of
congestion, we cannot as a goodbye | 1:48:02 | 1:48:05 | |
to recreating old routes that no
longer have a commercial purpose. | 1:48:05 | 1:48:12 | |
The Secretary of State will be aware
from my communications the | 1:48:12 | 1:48:16 | |
importance of real connectivity in
my constituency. It is the fifth | 1:48:16 | 1:48:21 | |
largest town in the country without
a railway station. Following the | 1:48:21 | 1:48:26 | |
publication of his report today, the
industrial strategy and the social | 1:48:26 | 1:48:31 | |
mobility report, which all highlight
the importance of connectivity for | 1:48:31 | 1:48:37 | |
social and economic purposes, will
he confirm that my constituency will | 1:48:37 | 1:48:42 | |
or has been considered as part of
the reversal of caps. Leuluai one | 1:48:42 | 1:48:51 | |
significant towns to be well served
by the railways and she is meeting | 1:48:51 | 1:48:54 | |
my honourable friend this afternoon
and he will listen very carefully to | 1:48:54 | 1:48:59 | |
what she says. My constituency of
Bristol North West is on the brink | 1:48:59 | 1:49:06 | |
of daily gridlock due to welcome
back significant development and | 1:49:06 | 1:49:08 | |
housing and travel to work groups
which are not fit for purpose. I | 1:49:08 | 1:49:12 | |
welcome the reference to the
Portishead line in the strategy but | 1:49:12 | 1:49:15 | |
the solution is the Henry Luke line. | 1:49:15 | 1:49:20 | |
Will the Secretary of State
reiterate the device given to my | 1:49:21 | 1:49:28 | |
predecessor that an independent case
study should be funded for funding | 1:49:28 | 1:49:32 | |
of that line. Also | 1:49:32 | 1:49:40 | |
he has a strong agenda to take
forward to investment and the | 1:49:42 | 1:49:45 | |
suburban railway services. I have
been to the point of the Henry loop, | 1:49:45 | 1:49:51 | |
which will be the issue and it is
something we have to resolve. -- | 1:49:51 | 1:49:55 | |
Henbury. | 1:49:55 | 1:49:58 | |
Fragmentation of the great Western
franchise risks locking in a poor | 1:50:05 | 1:50:09 | |
deal for real for the far
south-west. Will the Secretary of | 1:50:09 | 1:50:12 | |
State take this opportunity to match
the commitment given by the Shadow | 1:50:12 | 1:50:16 | |
Secretary of State for Transport to
fund the peninsular rail transport | 1:50:16 | 1:50:19 | |
board recommendations for faster
journeys, more resilient railways | 1:50:19 | 1:50:24 | |
and ensure they can unlock the
investment that we need for | 1:50:24 | 1:50:27 | |
Plymouth, Devon and Cornwall. Let me
reiterate my point that this is a | 1:50:27 | 1:50:33 | |
consultation and I want views from
all sides, we will only make a | 1:50:33 | 1:50:36 | |
change if it is the right thing to
do and we're not going to create a | 1:50:36 | 1:50:40 | |
fringe franchise just for Devon and
Cornwall, cutting it off. If we do | 1:50:40 | 1:50:44 | |
this and will be much more of a
south-western franchise serving the | 1:50:44 | 1:50:48 | |
region providing good links locally.
In terms of the peninsular rail task | 1:50:48 | 1:50:53 | |
force, their top recommendation was
that we need to do with the issue | 1:50:53 | 1:50:57 | |
and developing the solution. That is
critical to making sure that route | 1:50:57 | 1:51:03 | |
is resilient, that is the number-1
real priority for me in the | 1:51:03 | 1:51:06 | |
south-west I can have an absolute
guarantee to that says that as long | 1:51:06 | 1:51:10 | |
as I am Transport Secretary and
beyond, my party is committed to | 1:51:10 | 1:51:14 | |
delivering a solution to prevent the
very real risk that represents. | 1:51:14 | 1:51:19 | |
I now call Mr Andrea Mitchell to
propose a debate on a specific and | 1:51:23 | 1:51:28 | |
important matter that should have
urgent consideration under the terms | 1:51:28 | 1:51:33 | |
of Standing Order number 24. The
Right Honourable member has three | 1:51:33 | 1:51:39 | |
minutes in which to make such an
application. Thank you Madam Deputy | 1:51:39 | 1:51:44 | |
Speaker, I seek leave to propose
that the House should debate a | 1:51:44 | 1:51:48 | |
specific and important matter, which
shall have urgent consideration, | 1:51:48 | 1:51:51 | |
namely Britain's engagement with
Saudi Arabia and Yemen. Today, we | 1:51:51 | 1:51:57 | |
are witnessing an almighty
catastrophe of biblical proportions | 1:51:57 | 1:51:59 | |
are unfolding in Yemen in which
Britain is dangerously complicit. | 1:51:59 | 1:52:07 | |
Britain is respected throughout the
world for bringing hope and relief | 1:52:07 | 1:52:10 | |
for those caught up in humanitarian
misery. Today in Yemen, which I | 1:52:10 | 1:52:14 | |
visited earlier this year, we are in
danger of earning a reputation for | 1:52:14 | 1:52:19 | |
precisely the reverse. For the UK is
part of the coalition which is | 1:52:19 | 1:52:22 | |
imposing a blockade by land, sea and
air on 27 million in many people. In | 1:52:22 | 1:52:28 | |
recent weeks and fuel prices have
risen by up to 160% and rice and | 1:52:28 | 1:52:33 | |
basic foods by nearly 70%. Fuel for
generators is essential for | 1:52:33 | 1:52:39 | |
hospitals and water pumping stations
and it will run out shortly. | 1:52:39 | 1:52:43 | |
Yesterday given announcement by the
Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, while | 1:52:43 | 1:52:48 | |
arguably slowing the trajectory,
will not in any way curtail this | 1:52:48 | 1:52:53 | |
escalating disaster. In the words of
the United Nations Secretary-General | 1:52:53 | 1:52:57 | |
last week, and I quote, unless the
blockade is lifted, famine | 1:52:57 | 1:53:03 | |
throughout Yemen is a very real
threat, including on the southern | 1:53:03 | 1:53:07 | |
borders of the Kingdom of Saudi
Arabia. Moreover, wilfully impeding | 1:53:07 | 1:53:14 | |
humanitarian access may constitute a
violation of international | 1:53:14 | 1:53:18 | |
humanitarian law. It is increasingly
clear, Madam Deputy Speaker, that | 1:53:18 | 1:53:22 | |
this blockade imposed on Yemen
constitutes the collective and | 1:53:22 | 1:53:28 | |
illegal punishment of an entire
population. If you grant this | 1:53:28 | 1:53:33 | |
debate, I believe the House will see
clearly that current policy will | 1:53:33 | 1:53:39 | |
result in a huge strategic failure,
both for Saudi Arabia and by | 1:53:39 | 1:53:43 | |
extension for the UK as well. My
believe it is important that the | 1:53:43 | 1:53:47 | |
voice of this house is heard
urgently along with the Prime | 1:53:47 | 1:53:52 | |
Minister's on her current visit to
the Gulf. Above all, it is a moral | 1:53:52 | 1:53:59 | |
failure that confronts us. Famine is
a phenomenon that we were close to | 1:53:59 | 1:54:06 | |
eradicating from the human
condition. The last 20 years has | 1:54:06 | 1:54:10 | |
seen on the two famine throughout
the world. I was responsible in 2011 | 1:54:10 | 1:54:15 | |
for coordinating the UK efforts to
address one of those famines in | 1:54:15 | 1:54:20 | |
Somalia and saw for myself emaciated
children and starving mothers. Today | 1:54:20 | 1:54:25 | |
in Yemen, we are witnessing a
totally preventable mass | 1:54:25 | 1:54:31 | |
humanitarian catastrophe, the likes
of which we have not seen in | 1:54:31 | 1:54:35 | |
decades. The Right Honourable member
asks leave to propose a debate on a | 1:54:35 | 1:54:43 | |
specific and important matter that
should have urgent consideration. | 1:54:43 | 1:54:48 | |
Namely, the current situation in
Yemen. On behalf of Mr Speaker, I | 1:54:48 | 1:54:56 | |
have listened carefully to the
application from the Right | 1:54:56 | 1:55:00 | |
Honourable member and Mr Speaker is
satisfied that the matter raised is | 1:55:00 | 1:55:04 | |
proper to be discussed under
Standing Order number 24. Has the | 1:55:04 | 1:55:10 | |
Right Honourable member the leave of
the House? | 1:55:10 | 1:55:15 | |
The motion... I assure the Right
Honourable gentleman, I don't have | 1:55:22 | 1:55:29 | |
to count. Nobody has indicated
dissent and there is clearly | 1:55:29 | 1:55:36 | |
support. The motion has been
supported, as required by the | 1:55:36 | 1:55:41 | |
Standing Order. The debate will be
held tomorrow as the first item of | 1:55:41 | 1:55:51 | |
public business. The debate will
last for up to three hours and will | 1:55:51 | 1:55:55 | |
arise on a motion that the House has
considered the specific matters set | 1:55:55 | 1:56:00 | |
out in the right Honourable member's
application, namely that the House | 1:56:00 | 1:56:05 | |
has considered the current situation
in Yemen. | 1:56:05 | 1:56:09 | |
We now come to the ten minute rule
motion. Thank you very much. I beg | 1:56:13 | 1:56:22 | |
to move that we'd be given to bring
in a bill to require the government | 1:56:22 | 1:56:27 | |
to monitor and report on food and
security to make provision for | 1:56:27 | 1:56:31 | |
official statistics on food
insecurity and for connected | 1:56:31 | 1:56:34 | |
purposes. People are going hungry
and with each passing day of this | 1:56:34 | 1:56:40 | |
terrible excuse for a government,
more and more are falling into | 1:56:40 | 1:56:43 | |
poverty was little chance of an
escape. There are no second chances | 1:56:43 | 1:56:48 | |
in Britain today. Food poverty is a
clear consequence of this | 1:56:48 | 1:56:52 | |
government's ideological assault on
the social safety net and the people | 1:56:52 | 1:56:56 | |
who rely on it and are ongoing in
action on poverty pay. Each time | 1:56:56 | 1:57:01 | |
hunger is raised in this chamber, I
have had secretaries of State and | 1:57:01 | 1:57:06 | |
ministers denigrate statistics on
charities, food banks and | 1:57:06 | 1:57:09 | |
colleagues, claiming that the
figures are not robust enough and | 1:57:09 | 1:57:12 | |
the information out there is not
reliable enough to inform government | 1:57:12 | 1:57:15 | |
policy. Denying the accuracy of data
or simply turning a blind eye allows | 1:57:15 | 1:57:22 | |
the benches opposite to pretend the
problem doesn't exist. Madam Deputy | 1:57:22 | 1:57:26 | |
Speaker, today, with this bill, I am
giving the government an opportunity | 1:57:26 | 1:57:30 | |
to rectify this data gap and robust
elite measured the levels of hunger | 1:57:30 | 1:57:36 | |
in the UK. We all know that what
gets measured gets done. Although | 1:57:36 | 1:57:41 | |
the problem offered and security in
the UK is increasing and the | 1:57:41 | 1:57:46 | |
devolved administrations in Scotland
and Northern Ireland are taking | 1:57:46 | 1:57:49 | |
steps to implement the measurement.
This government doggedly persists in | 1:57:49 | 1:57:53 | |
refusing calls from the food
foundation, sustain Oxfam, myself | 1:57:53 | 1:57:58 | |
and a host of others to routinely
robustly measure levels of food | 1:57:58 | 1:58:01 | |
insecurity. Estimates from the
United Nations in 2014 suggests that | 1:58:01 | 1:58:07 | |
as many as 8 million households in
the UK are food insecure. That is 8 | 1:58:07 | 1:58:13 | |
million households where people
cannot afford to eat or are worrying | 1:58:13 | 1:58:16 | |
about where their next meal is
coming from. This estimate is based | 1:58:16 | 1:58:20 | |
on a small survey of around 1000
people, which is not nearly good | 1:58:20 | 1:58:25 | |
enough to inform policy. In 2016,
the Food Standards Agency surveyed | 1:58:25 | 1:58:32 | |
households about food insecurity as
part of the food and use survey. | 1:58:32 | 1:58:36 | |
They found 21% of households in
England, Wales and Northern Ireland | 1:58:36 | 1:58:41 | |
to be moderately to severely food
insecure. This one-off measurement | 1:58:41 | 1:58:46 | |
gives a snapshot of the problem but
does not allow for long-term trends | 1:58:46 | 1:58:51 | |
or the ability to track the impact
of policy changes. This month, the | 1:58:51 | 1:58:57 | |
office for National statistics
showed data that the drop in the | 1:58:57 | 1:59:01 | |
value of Stirling Q2 Brexit, food
inflation has written over 4%. We | 1:59:01 | 1:59:08 | |
need up-to-date information on the
impact it is having on families in | 1:59:08 | 1:59:15 | |
the UK to afford healthy food
because being food insecure as | 1:59:15 | 1:59:19 | |
lasting health impacts. We already
know that the UK is facing the | 1:59:19 | 1:59:23 | |
double burden of insecurity and
obesity. It is no surprise given the | 1:59:23 | 1:59:28 | |
types of meals that are food
insecure family can afford. More | 1:59:28 | 1:59:31 | |
worryingly, and the last financial
year, the cab of hospital admissions | 1:59:31 | 1:59:36 | |
in England reveals that there were
nearly 8000 adults and over 300 | 1:59:36 | 1:59:40 | |
children admitted to hospital for
malnutrition. | 1:59:40 | 1:59:46 | |
This figure should shame any
government, but for a government in | 1:59:46 | 1:59:49 | |
one of the richest countries in the
world this is simply unforgivable. | 1:59:49 | 1:59:53 | |
The latest data shows that just over
1 million emergency food supplies | 1:59:53 | 2:00:03 | |
were given to people in crisis over
the past year. This is just the tip | 2:00:03 | 2:00:06 | |
of the iceberg. We know the trust
will trust only collect data from | 2:00:06 | 2:00:10 | |
their own food banks. There are at
least 1000 food banks in operation. | 2:00:10 | 2:00:17 | |
There is also the hidden hungry.
Those who won't go to a food bank, | 2:00:17 | 2:00:21 | |
who rely on the kindness of friends,
family and neighbours, will go | 2:00:21 | 2:00:27 | |
hungry so not to face the shame of
having to ask for food. The | 2:00:27 | 2:00:32 | |
desperate state of this problem is
something I and colleagues see every | 2:00:32 | 2:00:35 | |
day in our constituencies. I recall
a woman who called my office in | 2:00:35 | 2:00:39 | |
desperate need of help after having
problems with her benefits. No money | 2:00:39 | 2:00:44 | |
for gas, electricity or food for
herself and her four children under | 2:00:44 | 2:00:48 | |
the age of ten. She was alone and
unable to afford to get to the | 2:00:48 | 2:00:52 | |
nearest food bank. In the end our
local volunteers managed to get food | 2:00:52 | 2:00:56 | |
to her. The fact that faith groups
and charities have had to fill the | 2:00:56 | 2:01:01 | |
gap left by the state is a massive
dereliction of duty of any | 2:01:01 | 2:01:06 | |
government. As a result, food banks
are now a prominent part of the | 2:01:06 | 2:01:10 | |
welfare state. According to the
United Nations data on food | 2:01:10 | 2:01:14 | |
insecurity in the UK, as many as 17
times more people are food insecure | 2:01:14 | 2:01:19 | |
than those using the Trussell Trust
food banks. It is an indication of a | 2:01:19 | 2:01:25 | |
last resort when families are at
imminent risk of going hungry. | 2:01:25 | 2:01:31 | |
Recurring or moderate food
insecurity is not captured by | 2:01:31 | 2:01:33 | |
measuring food bank use. We also
know that measuring the proportion | 2:01:33 | 2:01:39 | |
of income spent on food is not an
adequate measure of food insecurity. | 2:01:39 | 2:01:43 | |
There is new evidence from Canada I
chose food insecure households will | 2:01:43 | 2:01:48 | |
continue to spend the same
proportion of their income on food | 2:01:48 | 2:01:53 | |
as income falls, but the experience
increasingly severe food insecurity. | 2:01:53 | 2:01:58 | |
In addition, these measures do not
inform us about food on | 2:01:58 | 2:02:05 | |
affordability, socio- and economic
issues faced when food insecure, | 2:02:05 | 2:02:10 | |
useful survival strategies. These
issues can only be captured by | 2:02:10 | 2:02:15 | |
measuring household's experience of
food insecurity. Capturing and | 2:02:15 | 2:02:19 | |
measuring the experience of food
insecurity is either your -- easier | 2:02:19 | 2:02:21 | |
than we think. Survey tools are
currently being used in countries | 2:02:21 | 2:02:28 | |
around the world. The United States
Department of agriculture module | 2:02:28 | 2:02:33 | |
includes questions that assess both
household and child food insecurity. | 2:02:33 | 2:02:37 | |
This involves asking a series of
questions about people's experiences | 2:02:37 | 2:02:40 | |
of access and a sufficient quality
and quantity of food. The results | 2:02:40 | 2:02:47 | |
rank household food insecurity on a
scale from mild to severe. This bill | 2:02:47 | 2:02:52 | |
proposes these questions are
inserted into existing | 2:02:52 | 2:02:54 | |
representative UK wide surveys that
the government already conduct. What | 2:02:54 | 2:03:01 | |
I am proposing, Madam Deputy
Speaker, is very simple. By adding | 2:03:01 | 2:03:04 | |
the module into an existing survey,
such as the living cost and food | 2:03:04 | 2:03:09 | |
survey, this could be done cost
neutrally. When questions which are | 2:03:09 | 2:03:13 | |
less important are removed. For
example, the survey currently asked | 2:03:13 | 2:03:18 | |
households about the food they grow
at home. We need some new questions | 2:03:18 | 2:03:22 | |
for a new times. This is a
straightforward bill proposing to | 2:03:22 | 2:03:27 | |
introduce an existing measure into
an existing server that can be done | 2:03:27 | 2:03:31 | |
cost neutrally. As we negotiate new
trading arrangements with Europe and | 2:03:31 | 2:03:37 | |
beyond, its global populations rise
and conflict spread and more extreme | 2:03:37 | 2:03:40 | |
weather impacts on food supplies,
globally and domestically, food | 2:03:40 | 2:03:45 | |
insecurity will become an important
issue. In order to meet the | 2:03:45 | 2:03:49 | |
challenges of the future and the
urgency now, we need to measure food | 2:03:49 | 2:03:53 | |
insecurity here in the UK. This is
more important than ever. Madam | 2:03:53 | 2:03:59 | |
Deputy Speaker, as I present this
bill, in my constituency there will | 2:03:59 | 2:04:03 | |
be a mother wondering how she is
going to feed herself and her | 2:04:03 | 2:04:06 | |
toddler today. There will be
schoolchildren struggling to focus | 2:04:06 | 2:04:11 | |
because their stomachs rumbling.
Parents who have yet again skipped | 2:04:11 | 2:04:15 | |
breakfast to make sure their
children didn't have too. Families | 2:04:15 | 2:04:18 | |
searching their cupboards for what
is left and elderly people who are | 2:04:18 | 2:04:22 | |
unable to access fresh food. But it
is not just the case in my | 2:04:22 | 2:04:26 | |
constituency. It is the situation in
constituencies and homes across the | 2:04:26 | 2:04:30 | |
UK. As I have outlined, implementing
the measurement is not an | 2:04:30 | 2:04:37 | |
insurmountable or costly challenge.
This government owe it to every man, | 2:04:37 | 2:04:41 | |
woman and child who walk up hungry
this morning and will go to bed | 2:04:41 | 2:04:44 | |
hungry tonight in one of the richest
countries in the world. -- walk up. | 2:04:44 | 2:04:49 | |
I commend it to the House. The
question is that the honourable | 2:04:49 | 2:04:53 | |
member have leave to bring in the
bill. As many of that opinion say | 2:04:53 | 2:04:57 | |
eye. The no. The ayes have it, the
ayes have it. Who will prepare and | 2:04:57 | 2:05:07 | |
bring in the bill? Frank Field, Kate
Green, Jim Shannon, Liam Byrne, | 2:05:07 | 2:05:16 | |
Kerry McCarthy, Stephen Timms, Dan
Jarvis, Lee-Lo Maurin, Mr Jim | 2:05:16 | 2:05:24 | |
Cunningham and Grahame Morris. And
me, of course! Mrs ML -- Emma | 2:05:24 | 2:05:35 | |
Lewell-Buck. | 2:05:35 | 2:05:37 | |
Second reading, what day? The 2nd of
February, 2018. We know come to the | 2:06:05 | 2:06:17 | |
first Opposition Day motion in the
name of the leader of the Scottish | 2:06:17 | 2:06:20 | |
National Party. On women affected by
state pension age increases. Mr Ian | 2:06:20 | 2:06:28 | |
Blackford. Thank you. Can I take the
opportunity to wish you and | 2:06:28 | 2:06:35 | |
everybody else in the chamber a
happy Saint Andrews day when it | 2:06:35 | 2:06:38 | |
comes tomorrow. Today is the 50th
anniversary of the mighty Hibernian | 2:06:38 | 2:06:46 | |
football club defeating Naples 5-0
at Easter Road. It ensured we went | 2:06:46 | 2:06:56 | |
on to the next stage of European
football. Madam Deputy Speaker, I am | 2:06:56 | 2:07:01 | |
delighted to open and move the SNP
Opposition Day debate: for | 2:07:01 | 2:07:05 | |
mitigation for women born in the
1950s. We are here in support of the | 2:07:05 | 2:07:10 | |
women against state pension equality
campaign and their efforts to secure | 2:07:10 | 2:07:14 | |
fairness for women affected by the
acceleration in the retirement age. | 2:07:14 | 2:07:20 | |
Madam Deputy Speaker, I am saddened
that we are having yet another | 2:07:20 | 2:07:24 | |
debate on this issue. But the
fundamentals are that the government | 2:07:24 | 2:07:30 | |
should have taken action to mitigate
the increase in women's pensionable | 2:07:30 | 2:07:34 | |
age. One second. There must be
action. The three point it would -- | 2:07:34 | 2:07:41 | |
3.8 million women affected have
waited simply far too long. I will | 2:07:41 | 2:07:46 | |
happily give way. I'm grateful to
the honourable gentleman. He will | 2:07:46 | 2:07:49 | |
recall when he and I were pension
spokespeople for our respective | 2:07:49 | 2:07:55 | |
parties over two years ago, we both
called for action. Does he share my | 2:07:55 | 2:07:59 | |
deep frustration we still have
absolutely nothing? I welcome that | 2:07:59 | 2:08:03 | |
intervention. He and I were holding
the government to account. It is an | 2:08:03 | 2:08:10 | |
absolute outrage when the evidence
is before us of the fact that the | 2:08:10 | 2:08:13 | |
women didn't get appropriate notice,
and the fact that acceleration has | 2:08:13 | 2:08:18 | |
taken place so quickly. But we have
had nothing yet from this | 2:08:18 | 2:08:22 | |
government. I will give way. I'm
grateful. It is a very important to | 2:08:22 | 2:08:26 | |
bed. -- debate. Last week I attended
the one in Westminster Hall. Would | 2:08:26 | 2:08:34 | |
he accept it is wrong to say the
government has taken no action? In | 2:08:34 | 2:08:38 | |
2011 they made sure that no one
waited for an extended period beyond | 2:08:38 | 2:08:42 | |
18 months. I have heard about
spinning. But let's deal with the | 2:08:42 | 2:08:49 | |
facts of the matter. What the
honourable lady is referring to is | 2:08:49 | 2:08:54 | |
the fact that the government brought
in and act in 2011 that increased | 2:08:54 | 2:08:57 | |
the acceleration. To talk about the
fact the government had mitigated is | 2:08:57 | 2:09:04 | |
a distortion of the reality, and the
government benches should stop | 2:09:04 | 2:09:09 | |
spinning the way that they are doing
and tell the truth to the 3.8 | 2:09:09 | 2:09:13 | |
million women affected. That is that
pensionable age is increasing by | 2:09:13 | 2:09:19 | |
three months per calendar month.
That is the reality. And for the | 2:09:19 | 2:09:23 | |
government to try and argue that it
mitigated against it is something | 2:09:23 | 2:09:28 | |
they should be utterly ashamed of.
And it demonstrates that there are | 2:09:28 | 2:09:32 | |
those on the Conservative Party
benches that simply don't get what | 2:09:32 | 2:09:36 | |
is going on. I will happily give
way. I'm grateful. The tragedy is it | 2:09:36 | 2:09:42 | |
false to us to speak for those
individuals who have suffered the | 2:09:42 | 2:09:45 | |
effect of this. I have a constituent
who was born 24-hour is too late. | 2:09:45 | 2:09:50 | |
She now has to work for two years
and three months longer. These are | 2:09:50 | 2:09:54 | |
individual tragedies. I am very
grateful for that intervention from | 2:09:54 | 2:10:01 | |
my honourable friend. I can't really
add much to what she said. It | 2:10:01 | 2:10:04 | |
demonstrates the ridiculousness of
what is going on. That is why the | 2:10:04 | 2:10:09 | |
government must listen. I will take
one more intervention. I am grateful | 2:10:09 | 2:10:14 | |
to him. He knows I support this
cause. Although I can't be here for | 2:10:14 | 2:10:18 | |
the rest of the debate, but I will
certainly support this innocuous | 2:10:18 | 2:10:22 | |
motion. The fact is those measures
taken in 2011 benefited men just as | 2:10:22 | 2:10:28 | |
much as women. This is very much a
women focused injustice. 33% of men | 2:10:28 | 2:10:35 | |
approaching retirement expect to
rely just on a state pension. But | 2:10:35 | 2:10:40 | |
for women it is as many as 53%,
which is why this is such an | 2:10:40 | 2:10:44 | |
important issue to them and to all
of us. Can I thank the honourable | 2:10:44 | 2:10:49 | |
member for that important
intervention? He has been resolute | 2:10:49 | 2:10:52 | |
on this over the course of the last
couple of years. I know the women | 2:10:52 | 2:10:56 | |
are grateful for the support he has
given. I hope he will be back for | 2:10:56 | 2:11:00 | |
the vote later. I am glad he
referred to the motion which is in | 2:11:00 | 2:11:03 | |
front of us. There are all sorts of
things we could have laid before | 2:11:03 | 2:11:09 | |
this House. The motion simply calls
on the government to put in place | 2:11:09 | 2:11:13 | |
mitigation. It is done in such a way
that all members of Parliament that | 2:11:13 | 2:11:18 | |
have showed support, have got a
motion in front of them they can | 2:11:18 | 2:11:22 | |
support. Now is our chance, our only
chance, that we can stand up and do | 2:11:22 | 2:11:26 | |
something. I remembers who want to
get in. I will make some progress | 2:11:26 | 2:11:31 | |
and let people back in again. I know
many people want to speak. Madam | 2:11:31 | 2:11:36 | |
Deputy Speaker, this is about women
who have paid national insurance in | 2:11:36 | 2:11:40 | |
anticipation of receiving their
pension, who have been hit with the | 2:11:40 | 2:11:43 | |
bombshell that the pension was being
deferred in some cases by up to six | 2:11:43 | 2:11:48 | |
years, with only 15 months written
notice. Just dwell on that. When | 2:11:48 | 2:11:52 | |
your pension has been increased,
when you are looking forward to your | 2:11:52 | 2:11:56 | |
retirement, that you are given a
letter that told you you are going | 2:11:56 | 2:11:59 | |
to get as little as 15 months
notice. I would say to everybody on | 2:11:59 | 2:12:04 | |
the benches opposite, can anybody
stand up and tell this House, tell | 2:12:04 | 2:12:11 | |
the public, that giving someone 15
months written notice of an increase | 2:12:11 | 2:12:17 | |
in their pension was acceptable? Is
there anybody who is prepared to do | 2:12:17 | 2:12:21 | |
that? I will happily give way if
somebody wants to do that. | 2:12:21 | 2:12:27 | |
We recognise the concern. But to
rectify it requires public funds. | 2:12:27 | 2:12:33 | |
Now in the previous debate he said
his party position was to pay for it | 2:12:33 | 2:12:38 | |
from the surplus of the national
insurance fund. Is that still his | 2:12:38 | 2:12:41 | |
party's policy? Given the
opportunity to defend something | 2:12:41 | 2:12:48 | |
which is indefensible, what we get
again is spin. Let's be absolutely | 2:12:48 | 2:12:53 | |
crystal clear. The national
insurance fund is sitting at a | 2:12:53 | 2:12:57 | |
surplus of in the region of £30
billion. Now be clear, that surplus | 2:12:57 | 2:13:03 | |
of £30 billion is generated by the
women that have paid national | 2:13:03 | 2:13:08 | |
insurance. All that we are being
asked to do is give the women what | 2:13:08 | 2:13:15 | |
they were entitled to. A pension
should be... I will make some | 2:13:15 | 2:13:20 | |
progress. A pension should be seen
as a right, a right that the | 2:13:20 | 2:13:24 | |
government have changed the terms
and conditions on without | 2:13:24 | 2:13:29 | |
consultation. As many of the
campaigners point out, we paid in, | 2:13:29 | 2:13:33 | |
you pay out. This is a campaign at
the heart of SNP policy. We have | 2:13:33 | 2:13:42 | |
long fought for the government to
rectify the shambles and give the | 2:13:42 | 2:13:45 | |
women the pension they rightfully
deserved. I speak on behalf of, on | 2:13:45 | 2:13:50 | |
these benches, when I say that we
will not rest, we will never rest | 2:13:50 | 2:13:54 | |
until justice is delivered for the
women affected. The government have | 2:13:54 | 2:13:59 | |
failed time and time again to
address the injustices of a lack of | 2:13:59 | 2:14:03 | |
notice for the acceleration of the
state pension age. The opportunities | 2:14:03 | 2:14:07 | |
here today for the government to
admit that effective notice was not | 2:14:07 | 2:14:11 | |
given of an increase in pensionable
age, or the process of increasing | 2:14:11 | 2:14:15 | |
pensionable age must be slowed
down... I'm very grateful to the | 2:14:15 | 2:14:21 | |
right honourable gentleman forgiving
way. He is speaking with his | 2:14:21 | 2:14:23 | |
customary passion on this issue. He
said it was at the heart of SNP | 2:14:23 | 2:14:28 | |
thinking. I'm not an expert on
devolved powers. But my | 2:14:28 | 2:14:32 | |
understanding of the reading of the
legislation is that the Scottish | 2:14:32 | 2:14:36 | |
government has the powers to rectify
this issue if it's a waste. | 2:14:36 | 2:14:40 | |
Chastising the Treasury bench for a
lack of action, and we have seen no | 2:14:40 | 2:14:44 | |
action which could give a lead to
the government perhaps one -- from | 2:14:44 | 2:14:47 | |
Hollywood. | 2:14:47 | 2:15:00 | |
It is because we don't have the
powers and it's about time that | 2:15:03 | 2:15:09 | |
somebody in the government mentioned
stop creating... Let me be | 2:15:09 | 2:15:17 | |
absolutely crystal clear on this. He
worked over pensions is reserved to | 2:15:17 | 2:15:25 | |
Westminster and there is a bit of a
clue. Pensions are paid out of | 2:15:25 | 2:15:28 | |
national insurance. I would love
that the Scottish Government had | 2:15:28 | 2:15:32 | |
control over national insurance
because I will make this clear to | 2:15:32 | 2:15:35 | |
the House, if we had control over
pensions in Scotland, we'd make | 2:15:35 | 2:15:43 | |
sure... I will give way. The act
does not preclude... If the | 2:15:43 | 2:15:53 | |
Honourable Lady would just wait a
minute. I agree entirely that | 2:15:53 | 2:15:58 | |
pensions are reserved for
discretionary payments could be made | 2:15:58 | 2:16:01 | |
by the government, why haven't they
done so? There's a very simple | 2:16:01 | 2:16:07 | |
answer and that is that the
honourable gentleman who I have | 2:16:07 | 2:16:12 | |
respect for, he knows that, he
should go back and read the 2016 act | 2:16:12 | 2:16:16 | |
because it's absolutely crystal
clear that we cannot introduce new | 2:16:16 | 2:16:20 | |
benefits, nor can we introduce
payments based on age but there is a | 2:16:20 | 2:16:24 | |
fundamental point that needs to be
made here. We are talking about the | 2:16:24 | 2:16:32 | |
state pension in the active kingdom.
We are talking about the state | 2:16:32 | 2:16:37 | |
pension and the United Kingdom. It
is a reserved matter. And it really | 2:16:37 | 2:16:44 | |
ill judges anybody on the opposition
side to try and create division to | 2:16:44 | 2:16:49 | |
the people of Scotland and elsewhere
when we have powers and we don't. I | 2:16:49 | 2:16:53 | |
will say to the honourable members
opposite, particularly those from | 2:16:53 | 2:16:57 | |
the Conservative Party that if they
want the Scottish Government to have | 2:16:57 | 2:17:00 | |
the powers to fix this then give us
the powers. Give us control over | 2:17:00 | 2:17:05 | |
pensions and we will fix it
tomorrow. I am grateful to the | 2:17:05 | 2:17:11 | |
member for giving way. He has asked
us to tell him what he was the | 2:17:11 | 2:17:15 | |
Scottish Government have in the
situation, under section 28 of the | 2:17:15 | 2:17:19 | |
Scotland act, you can create a new
benefit and you can make that | 2:17:19 | 2:17:25 | |
argument as a basis but the reason
of old age which the DWP have | 2:17:25 | 2:17:31 | |
accepted. Further, session 26 allows
the Scottish Government to make | 2:17:31 | 2:17:35 | |
short-term aim to people who need
them to avoid a risk to the | 2:17:35 | 2:17:39 | |
well-being of an individual. They
have the powers, they choose not to | 2:17:39 | 2:17:43 | |
use them. | 2:17:43 | 2:17:44 | |
The honourable gentleman. Order. I
want to hear the honourable | 2:17:50 | 2:17:58 | |
gentleman and I was about to try to
quieten the House down in order I | 2:17:58 | 2:18:01 | |
might be able to hear him but I
realised most of the night is coming | 2:18:01 | 2:18:04 | |
from those behind him. The
honourable gentleman is making an | 2:18:04 | 2:18:09 | |
important speech and those behind
him are trying to support but they | 2:18:09 | 2:18:12 | |
are a bit noisy about it. | 2:18:12 | 2:18:15 | |
The simple fact is that the Scottish
parliament and government does not | 2:18:18 | 2:18:24 | |
have the ability to introduce new
benefits based on age but there is | 2:18:24 | 2:18:28 | |
something really important. The
honourable gentleman opposite should | 2:18:28 | 2:18:31 | |
reflect on this because this is a
failure of policy of the UK | 2:18:31 | 2:18:37 | |
Government. Nobody can get away from
that. The Conservatives in Scotland | 2:18:37 | 2:18:42 | |
really say that the Scottish
parliament, the Scottish Government | 2:18:42 | 2:18:45 | |
should clear up the mess again which
has been left by the Conservative | 2:18:45 | 2:18:51 | |
government because we have spent
£400 million of the Scottish | 2:18:51 | 2:18:56 | |
Government mitigating the worst
effects of Tory austerity. That is | 2:18:56 | 2:19:00 | |
their reality and when I see the
honourable gentleman sitting there | 2:19:00 | 2:19:04 | |
chuntering, maybe he can and answer
the question. Was he one of those | 2:19:04 | 2:19:08 | |
that signed? Did he say to his
voters in Murray that he was going | 2:19:08 | 2:19:15 | |
to stand up to them because if he is
due to his word that he has to come | 2:19:15 | 2:19:21 | |
through the lobbies with us this
afternoon or quite simply his words | 2:19:21 | 2:19:25 | |
will be shown to be meaningless and
differ are the people of his | 2:19:25 | 2:19:29 | |
constituency. -- fraud. I am
concerned my honourable friend is | 2:19:29 | 2:19:36 | |
not listening to the front bench,
I'm sympathetic to the Waspy women. | 2:19:36 | 2:19:43 | |
The Right Honourable gentleman can
do something about it. He will not | 2:19:43 | 2:19:46 | |
and he's not taking an intervention
because he would rather score | 2:19:46 | 2:19:50 | |
political points than fix the
problem. That is pathetic. | 2:19:50 | 2:19:56 | |
Absolutely pathetic. It demonstrates
well and truly that the honourable | 2:19:56 | 2:20:01 | |
gentleman has not been listening.
I've listened to the government | 2:20:01 | 2:20:05 | |
front bench at an debate after
debate when they had been given the | 2:20:05 | 2:20:08 | |
opportunity to do something about
this, we costed proposals, we came | 2:20:08 | 2:20:13 | |
forward with proposals in the last
Parliament and the minister like | 2:20:13 | 2:20:16 | |
Cabinet ministers before he wants to
sit on his hands, he wants this | 2:20:16 | 2:20:19 | |
issue to go away. I can tell you
quite clearly, this issue is not | 2:20:19 | 2:20:23 | |
going away. I will make progress and
then give way. The opportunity | 2:20:23 | 2:20:30 | |
issued today for the government to
do something about it and if I can | 2:20:30 | 2:20:35 | |
remind the House, 250 members of
Parliament have presented petitions | 2:20:35 | 2:20:39 | |
on behalf of of Waspy woman. That's
250 members of Parliament that I | 2:20:39 | 2:20:44 | |
expect to go through the lobby --
Waspy women. There's no point | 2:20:44 | 2:20:49 | |
signing the petition unless you are
prepared to go through the lobby or | 2:20:49 | 2:20:52 | |
simply you have duped them. Our
motion is a simple one. It calls for | 2:20:52 | 2:21:01 | |
mitigation. It allows all members of
Parliament to recognise the | 2:21:01 | 2:21:07 | |
injustice of 1950s women are facing
on the allows the government to | 2:21:07 | 2:21:12 | |
bring forward proposals. Let me
state that at the beginning of this | 2:21:12 | 2:21:16 | |
debate, the Parliamentary democracy
if it means anything, the House must | 2:21:16 | 2:21:20 | |
divide on this motion. The
government must support mitigation | 2:21:20 | 2:21:24 | |
which we are calling to do or have
the guts to vote, members across | 2:21:24 | 2:21:33 | |
this house must signal we have the
book mitigation into place. Let us | 2:21:33 | 2:21:37 | |
stand up today for 1950s women
because I believe parliamentary | 2:21:37 | 2:21:43 | |
arithmetic is on our side. I will
give way one more time. I can grab | 2:21:43 | 2:21:52 | |
the honourable gentleman to get this
debate. I think the government can | 2:21:52 | 2:21:59 | |
find this money, it's not good for
the government to blame the Scottish | 2:21:59 | 2:22:03 | |
parliament, this is a UK issue and I
can assure the honourable gentleman | 2:22:03 | 2:22:07 | |
I will be backing him. I'm very
grateful and I hoped he would be and | 2:22:07 | 2:22:13 | |
has been resolute of this issue. He
is absolutely right about the magic | 2:22:13 | 2:22:19 | |
money tree. We can find money for
Northern Ireland and as I pointed | 2:22:19 | 2:22:23 | |
out in the budget debate, we found
£70 billion for quantitive easing | 2:22:23 | 2:22:27 | |
last year. 70 billion written for
the Bank of England to put into the | 2:22:27 | 2:22:33 | |
financial markets and don't tell us
that you can't find the money the | 2:22:33 | 2:22:38 | |
answer to the question is this money
is there because the national | 2:22:38 | 2:22:42 | |
insurance fund is there and we must
make some progress. I will not take | 2:22:42 | 2:22:47 | |
interventions for a while. The
moment has never been sort of to | 2:22:47 | 2:22:51 | |
four members across this house to
come together. To do the right thing | 2:22:51 | 2:22:55 | |
and coal for this long-standing
error to be corrected. On the | 2:22:55 | 2:23:00 | |
benches opposite there was a pledge
to the Waspi women as recently as | 2:23:00 | 2:23:04 | |
June this year, Scottish Tory
members opposite, I will not name | 2:23:04 | 2:23:08 | |
them, they know who they are, they
signed the Waspi pledge and claimed | 2:23:08 | 2:23:15 | |
they would be prepared to act
against party orders on the issue. | 2:23:15 | 2:23:21 | |
To act against party orders. There
has been a deafening silence from | 2:23:21 | 2:23:26 | |
them on this matter since the
election. There is a surprise. The | 2:23:26 | 2:23:34 | |
host might be interested to know
that in the constituencies | 2:23:34 | 2:23:38 | |
represented by the Scottish
Conservative members of Parliament, | 2:23:38 | 2:23:40 | |
a total of 84,000 women are affected
by this government's legislative | 2:23:40 | 2:23:46 | |
changes. My advice to those who
supported the Waspi women, will they | 2:23:46 | 2:23:57 | |
have the courage to join us in the
lobbies this afternoon will be | 2:23:57 | 2:24:00 | |
turned their backs on the 84,000
Waspi women in their own | 2:24:00 | 2:24:05 | |
constituencies? Page 62 other
Scottish Conservative manifesto. We | 2:24:05 | 2:24:11 | |
will also ensure that the state
pension age reflect increases in | 2:24:11 | 2:24:16 | |
life protection and will protect
each generation fairly. So, today, | 2:24:16 | 2:24:22 | |
Scottish Tories, do the right thing. | 2:24:22 | 2:24:27 | |
Thank you very much to the
honourable gentleman. People are | 2:24:28 | 2:24:32 | |
living longer and the contributions
work out a little on the basis of | 2:24:32 | 2:24:39 | |
people not living so long and whilst
I sympathise with the honourable | 2:24:39 | 2:24:44 | |
member and what he is saying, the
debt burden would be increased on | 2:24:44 | 2:24:48 | |
the children and grandchildren and
that is grossly unfair. | 2:24:48 | 2:24:54 | |
I am absolutely stunned. I am
speechless because that is something | 2:24:58 | 2:25:04 | |
that we should put out in a leaflet
because we're not talking about tea | 2:25:04 | 2:25:08 | |
and sympathy, we are talking about
Waspi that are on benefit and they | 2:25:08 | 2:25:16 | |
will get nothing from the member for
Gordon and that is crystal clear. We | 2:25:16 | 2:25:23 | |
should today delivered the
generation of fairness that the | 2:25:23 | 2:25:26 | |
Tories promised in their manifesto.
I sincerely went with the backing of | 2:25:26 | 2:25:32 | |
some 37 Conservative MPs who
expressed support for women against | 2:25:32 | 2:25:39 | |
increasing state pension. 37 Tory
MPs signed the pledge and we will | 2:25:39 | 2:25:42 | |
watch this afternoon Waspi women
will be watching. You will be | 2:25:42 | 2:25:47 | |
expected to do what you promise in
the election campaign and stand up | 2:25:47 | 2:25:51 | |
for the Waspi women. That support
stretches from the Tory benches | 2:25:51 | 2:25:56 | |
across to the benches of the | 2:25:56 | 2:26:01 | |
page nine of their manifesto they
pledged to protect pensions and it | 2:26:03 | 2:26:08 | |
was announced today they will
support and into the -- they will | 2:26:08 | 2:26:14 | |
support an end to the unfair
pledges. | 2:26:14 | 2:26:17 | |
I must say I am disappointed at the
tone which has been said in this | 2:26:20 | 2:26:26 | |
debate because despite the fact that
we did have emotion, which I would | 2:26:26 | 2:26:30 | |
have thought could have commanded
widespread support, the tone of the | 2:26:30 | 2:26:35 | |
debate has not been what I have
expected. We made a manifesto pledge | 2:26:35 | 2:26:40 | |
regarding this issue. Reason why I
am here as a spokesman of the party | 2:26:40 | 2:26:44 | |
today is because we do support it
and we will go through the lobby on | 2:26:44 | 2:26:48 | |
it. I do think that the Waspi women
will be better served if we actually | 2:26:48 | 2:26:55 | |
had a debate that was not divisive,
not about point-scoring because | 2:26:55 | 2:26:58 | |
there is not a party, whether it is
Labour, liberal or conservative | 2:26:58 | 2:27:02 | |
parties which has not because some
of this problem. I can point out | 2:27:02 | 2:27:10 | |
that what we are trying to do is set
out the facts of the arguments in | 2:27:10 | 2:27:14 | |
this house. These women have been
for too long been let down by | 2:27:14 | 2:27:19 | |
politicians, let's use the
opportunity we have today to give | 2:27:19 | 2:27:22 | |
them the result they deserve. Thanks
to freedom | 2:27:22 | 2:27:26 | |
the DWP only began writing to women
bond between April 1950 and April | 2:27:29 | 2:27:38 | |
1935 and did not complete the
process until 2012. Writing to women | 2:27:38 | 2:27:44 | |
about changes in legislation back to
1995 but did not start the formal | 2:27:44 | 2:27:51 | |
notification period for 14 years to
begin informing women that their | 2:27:51 | 2:27:58 | |
pension was going to be deferred.
Can you imagine the outcry in the | 2:27:58 | 2:28:06 | |
size of a private pension provider
was doing this. When you consider | 2:28:06 | 2:28:09 | |
the entitlement to state pensioners
through national insurance | 2:28:09 | 2:28:15 | |
contributions for over 40 years, is
quite stunning. It women born on the | 2:28:15 | 2:28:22 | |
6th of April 1953, who under the
previous legislation would have | 2:28:22 | 2:28:25 | |
retired on the 6th of April 2013
would have received a letter from | 2:28:25 | 2:28:30 | |
the DWP in January 2012 with the
bombshell that she wouldn't be | 2:28:30 | 2:28:34 | |
retiring on April 2013, she would be
retiring in July 2016. Three years | 2:28:34 | 2:28:41 | |
and three months later than she
might have expected, with 15 months | 2:28:41 | 2:28:44 | |
notice. That is what honourable
members opposite have been | 2:28:44 | 2:28:49 | |
defending. It is no wonder that the
Waspi women are insulted. 15 months | 2:28:49 | 2:28:56 | |
notice for what you thought was a
contract you had with the government | 2:28:56 | 2:28:59 | |
simply to be ripped up. And pensions
White Paper published in December | 2:28:59 | 2:29:06 | |
1993 it was stated that in
developing its proposals for | 2:29:06 | 2:29:10 | |
implementing the change, the
government has paid particular | 2:29:10 | 2:29:12 | |
attention to give people enough time
to plan ahead and says the change in | 2:29:12 | 2:29:16 | |
gradually. Not much there I would
disagree with but when you accept | 2:29:16 | 2:29:21 | |
the need for people to plan ahead,
you need to write and tell them. The | 2:29:21 | 2:29:27 | |
intent... | 2:29:27 | 2:29:38 | |
There is a serious point growing
from this. The amount of women in | 2:29:39 | 2:29:44 | |
their 60s who did not receive a
letter, then deferred their pensions | 2:29:44 | 2:29:48 | |
when they are 63, and they weren't
told in those deferments they should | 2:29:48 | 2:29:55 | |
have received it three years
earlier. This is another scandal of | 2:29:55 | 2:29:59 | |
how the DWP has not been honest in
those letters. Would you agree that | 2:29:59 | 2:30:02 | |
is something else the government has
-- should address? The honourable | 2:30:02 | 2:30:08 | |
gentleman is quite correct. It is
yet another clear example of why | 2:30:08 | 2:30:12 | |
there is absolutely no excuse that
collectively we take action today. | 2:30:12 | 2:30:15 | |
We have got a choice. We recognise
the injustices that the women have | 2:30:15 | 2:30:21 | |
faced. While you sit and -- or use
it on your hands and you do nothing. | 2:30:21 | 2:30:28 | |
That is the choice. It is a bar --
about morality, Minister. It is | 2:30:28 | 2:30:33 | |
about doing the right thing. You can
look to the skies but it will not | 2:30:33 | 2:30:37 | |
remove the problem for you. I don't
want to wait until the end of the | 2:30:37 | 2:30:41 | |
debate, and we get another ten
minutes of ignoring the reality of | 2:30:41 | 2:30:44 | |
what is going on, because we have
had it for too long and it has to | 2:30:44 | 2:30:48 | |
stop, and it has to stop today.
Madam Deputy Speaker, the intent was | 2:30:48 | 2:30:54 | |
there in the White Paper from 1993.
It was 2009 before any formal | 2:30:54 | 2:30:59 | |
letters went out. Then we have the
issue of phasing in gradually. Where | 2:30:59 | 2:31:04 | |
we are is the increase in women's
pensionable age is increasing by | 2:31:04 | 2:31:08 | |
three months for every calendar
month that passes. It is simply | 2:31:08 | 2:31:12 | |
scandalous that women's pensionable
age is increasing so rapidly. It is | 2:31:12 | 2:31:18 | |
indefensible. It is not within the
spirit outlined in the government | 2:31:18 | 2:31:22 | |
White Paper in 1993. In October
2002, while giving evidence to the | 2:31:22 | 2:31:28 | |
select committee, the DWP suggested
that the role of the state was to | 2:31:28 | 2:31:32 | |
provide clear and accurate
information about what pensions will | 2:31:32 | 2:31:37 | |
provide some people can understand
how much they can expect a | 2:31:37 | 2:31:39 | |
retirement before it is too late to
do something about it. Madam Deputy | 2:31:39 | 2:31:44 | |
Speaker, before it is too late to do
something about it. How does that | 2:31:44 | 2:31:48 | |
statement equate with 15 months
notice? How can the Minister, how | 2:31:48 | 2:31:53 | |
can anyone who is not -- who is not
going to support this motion today, | 2:31:53 | 2:31:58 | |
support that lack of notice? It has
gone quiet now, hasn't it? | 2:31:58 | 2:32:08 | |
I'm extremely grateful to him. He is
very courteous and giving way. But | 2:32:08 | 2:32:11 | |
he did say he would pay for it over
the national. --. Ruth Kelly said it | 2:32:11 | 2:32:23 | |
is ring fenced and cannot be used
for other government expenditure. | 2:32:23 | 2:32:29 | |
I just...
LAUGHTER. Of course it's | 2:32:33 | 2:32:40 | |
ring-fenced. Pay it out! That is
what you have been asked to do. | 2:32:40 | 2:32:57 | |
No form of communication took place
until 2009, and the task was not | 2:32:57 | 2:33:03 | |
completed until 2012. The DWP had to
take responsibility for its failure | 2:33:03 | 2:33:07 | |
to communicate, and crucially, for
the lack of time women had to | 2:33:07 | 2:33:10 | |
prepare for an increase in their
state pension age. Rather than | 2:33:10 | 2:33:14 | |
recognising that women deserve to be
communicated with directly, the DWP | 2:33:14 | 2:33:17 | |
issued leaflets, headlined equality
in state pension age. Can anybody | 2:33:17 | 2:33:22 | |
remember them? No. I don't recall
seeing them either. That is no | 2:33:22 | 2:33:28 | |
surprise because when the DWP
commission resurgence 2004 | 2:33:28 | 2:33:32 | |
highlighted that only 2% of
dependence said they had been | 2:33:32 | 2:33:38 | |
notified of changes, that is the
responsibility the government took. | 2:33:38 | 2:33:43 | |
Frankly, is an insult that the
government at the time thought | 2:33:43 | 2:33:47 | |
changes that affect a woman's's
retirement age could be delivered | 2:33:47 | 2:33:50 | |
with a leaflet. It was an abrogation
of responsibility and we have to | 2:33:50 | 2:33:56 | |
take responsibility for that
abrogation of responsibility. We | 2:33:56 | 2:34:01 | |
should all receive an annual
statement from the DWP just as we do | 2:34:01 | 2:34:06 | |
from private pension funds. I must
apologise, but because of time I | 2:34:06 | 2:34:09 | |
will have to move on. The failure to
communicate was highlighted by DWP | 2:34:09 | 2:34:14 | |
the -- a DWP publication which found
that only 43% of all women affected | 2:34:14 | 2:34:21 | |
by the increase in state pensionable
age were aware of the impact. If the | 2:34:21 | 2:34:26 | |
government accepts that women were
not informed in a timely manner, and | 2:34:26 | 2:34:31 | |
they didn't have that time to react,
why does the government not accept | 2:34:31 | 2:34:35 | |
its responsibilities? I am watching
the Minister. He is looking away. He | 2:34:35 | 2:34:40 | |
is not interested because he simply
doesn't want to hear the facts. When | 2:34:40 | 2:34:44 | |
will you accept your responsibility
for these women and engage in this | 2:34:44 | 2:34:48 | |
in a constructive manner? We also
know the government sent out letters | 2:34:48 | 2:34:54 | |
to men and women between May 2003
and November 2006, an automatic | 2:34:54 | 2:35:01 | |
state pension forecast. But the
letters did not contain any | 2:35:01 | 2:35:04 | |
information about state pension age.
You couldn't make this up. What they | 2:35:04 | 2:35:09 | |
did say was it wanted to find out
more about state pension age, please | 2:35:09 | 2:35:17 | |
see page ten of the guide for
details. What should have been | 2:35:17 | 2:35:26 | |
communicated was accurate, clear and
transparent information. It was a | 2:35:26 | 2:35:29 | |
failure of his department once
again. Another massive failure to | 2:35:29 | 2:35:35 | |
communicate from the government.
What is he going to do about it? | 2:35:35 | 2:35:37 | |
Nothing. The previous Pensions
Minister gave a Parliamentary answer | 2:35:37 | 2:35:45 | |
to me stating that the government
has committed not to change the | 2:35:45 | 2:35:49 | |
legislation relating to state
pension age for those people who are | 2:35:49 | 2:35:52 | |
within ten years of reaching it.
This provides these individuals with | 2:35:52 | 2:35:56 | |
certainty they need to plan for the
future. We recognise the importance | 2:35:56 | 2:36:01 | |
of ensuring people are aware of any
changes to their state pensionable | 2:36:01 | 2:36:04 | |
age. I welcome that statement. But
that recognition of ensuring people | 2:36:04 | 2:36:08 | |
were aware of changes was not
afforded to the 1950s statement. If | 2:36:08 | 2:36:13 | |
that statement from the Minister in
2016 is to have any credibility, the | 2:36:13 | 2:36:18 | |
Minister has to accept that the
women affected were not given that | 2:36:18 | 2:36:22 | |
courtesy and the government needs to
connect with it today. Madam Deputy | 2:36:22 | 2:36:27 | |
Speaker, to set the social economic
scheme -- scene, we know that only | 2:36:27 | 2:36:33 | |
52% of women are adequately saving
for retirement in comparison to 60% | 2:36:33 | 2:36:40 | |
of men. Female pensioners have a net
weekly income that is approximately | 2:36:40 | 2:36:45 | |
85% of their male counterparts. Over
two thirds of pensioners living in | 2:36:45 | 2:36:51 | |
poverty are penned -- are women. In
August, the IO Ferres revealed the | 2:36:51 | 2:36:56 | |
increase in state pension age has
left 1.1 million women £50 per week | 2:36:56 | 2:37:01 | |
worse off. The I first looked into
the government reform of the state | 2:37:01 | 2:37:06 | |
pension -- the ISS. The move to
increase the eligibility age meant | 2:37:06 | 2:37:13 | |
that income poverty rates were
pushed up substantially from 15% to | 2:37:13 | 2:37:16 | |
20%. That is just with the increase
in age from 60 to 63. An increase in | 2:37:16 | 2:37:25 | |
poverty. If the Minister going to
defend that? With the Tory MPs from | 2:37:25 | 2:37:30 | |
Scotland defend that? There has been
an 8.7% rise in the chance of a | 2:37:30 | 2:37:39 | |
woman aged between 60 and 63 being
in absolute poverty. In my | 2:37:39 | 2:37:44 | |
constituency Beragh 5400 we went --
5000 foreign women born in the | 2:37:44 | 2:37:48 | |
affected by this. Across Scotland,
the women is three and 40 7000. | 2:37:48 | 2:37:58 | |
Information figures have revealed
that while almost 4600 | 2:37:58 | 2:38:01 | |
maladministration complaints have
been received by officials at the | 2:38:01 | 2:38:06 | |
Department of work on to is, only
six investigations have been | 2:38:06 | 2:38:12 | |
concluded. The process of dealing
with the complaints has taken so | 2:38:12 | 2:38:19 | |
long because there are only three
staff members dealing with the | 2:38:19 | 2:38:24 | |
complaints in the DWP. That is the
seriousness this government is | 2:38:24 | 2:38:28 | |
showing to this issue. The delays
have been so long that the pensions | 2:38:28 | 2:38:35 | |
ombudsman has forced the independent
Case Examiner to streamline the | 2:38:35 | 2:38:38 | |
process. What a farce, and an
indication the government does not | 2:38:38 | 2:38:42 | |
simply take its responsibilities for
the women. Another let down for the | 2:38:42 | 2:38:48 | |
women. The government have a
commitment to the women. It should | 2:38:48 | 2:38:54 | |
stop playing fast and loose with
their rights. Madam Deputy Speaker, | 2:38:54 | 2:38:57 | |
in a debate on the 5th of July, the
Pensions Minister talk about | 2:38:57 | 2:39:02 | |
employment or retraining
opportunities for women, saying the | 2:39:02 | 2:39:09 | |
government have extended
apprenticeship opportunities. | 2:39:09 | 2:39:13 | |
Apprenticeship opportunities. There
you have it. Women who worked for | 2:39:13 | 2:39:16 | |
more than 50 years in some cases,
can go on apprenticeship schemes. No | 2:39:16 | 2:39:21 | |
wonder later in his speech, the
minister claimed, I realise it is | 2:39:21 | 2:39:26 | |
not going down well. Let me say to
the Minister, Little wonder. 1950s | 2:39:26 | 2:39:32 | |
women don't want apprenticeship
schemes. 1950s women want their | 2:39:32 | 2:39:36 | |
pension. What they don't want is to
be pushed onto benefit because that | 2:39:36 | 2:39:43 | |
is what is happening. Between August
2013 and August 2017, the number of | 2:39:43 | 2:39:49 | |
people claiming Job Seekers
Allowance or Universal Credit across | 2:39:49 | 2:39:52 | |
all ages fell by 42%. We welcome
that. The number of 60s plus women | 2:39:52 | 2:40:00 | |
rose by 9500. A 113% increase. The
number of women aged over 60 | 2:40:00 | 2:40:08 | |
claiming employment support
allowance increased by 121,000, a | 2:40:08 | 2:40:14 | |
massive 413%. That is the reality of
the increase, the sharp increase, of | 2:40:14 | 2:40:22 | |
a women's age pension. The reality
is women are being denied their | 2:40:22 | 2:40:25 | |
pension and this government is
forcing them onto benefits. That is | 2:40:25 | 2:40:28 | |
what is happening. Of course, the
Minister has been ridiculed by among | 2:40:28 | 2:40:34 | |
others the financial Times. The
minister was described as one in a | 2:40:34 | 2:40:37 | |
line of Pensions minister's with no
interest in pensions. He has no | 2:40:37 | 2:40:42 | |
interest in women's pensions. Today
Minister, start to take an interest, | 2:40:42 | 2:40:46 | |
and do the right thing by putting
mitigation in place. It is nothing | 2:40:46 | 2:40:51 | |
short of a disgrace that the
government found no remedy for the | 2:40:51 | 2:40:55 | |
women in its budget last week. The
Chancellor stood at the dispatch box | 2:40:55 | 2:41:01 | |
and extolled the virtues of spending
billions on Brexit, but failed to | 2:41:01 | 2:41:06 | |
address the injustice of female
pensioners. Traditional measures to | 2:41:06 | 2:41:09 | |
mitigate the issue would cost
significant less than the £30 | 2:41:09 | 2:41:13 | |
billion figure. Independent research
by the SNP last year showed the true | 2:41:13 | 2:41:20 | |
cost would be 8 billion. We can find
billions for Brexit. Billions for | 2:41:20 | 2:41:26 | |
Trident. Not 1p for our pensioners
who were treated with contempt by | 2:41:26 | 2:41:29 | |
this government. It is bitterly
disappointing that the Chancellor | 2:41:29 | 2:41:33 | |
did not use the budget last week to
support the women. Once again, it | 2:41:33 | 2:41:39 | |
falls to the SNP by opening this
debate to be a voice in this house, | 2:41:39 | 2:41:43 | |
in this campaign, to press the UK
government to do the decent thing. | 2:41:43 | 2:41:47 | |
You have got it wrong, I admit it
and now thickset! | 2:41:47 | 2:41:51 | |
-- admitted.
Now thickset. The question is as on | 2:41:51 | 2:41:57 | |
the order paper. Just before I call
the Minister, I should warn | 2:41:57 | 2:42:01 | |
honourable members who wish to take
part in the debate that of course | 2:42:01 | 2:42:04 | |
time is limited. And in order they
might tailor their proposed speech | 2:42:04 | 2:42:11 | |
is accordingly, there will be a time
limit of three minutes. | 2:42:11 | 2:42:18 | |
Minister, Mr Guy Opperman. Thank
you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Since | 2:42:18 | 2:42:23 | |
world War II we have seen a dramatic
change in life expectancy. We are | 2:42:23 | 2:42:27 | |
living longer, staying healthier,
fighting diseases that would have | 2:42:27 | 2:42:31 | |
previously killed us and leading a
more active lifestyle regardless of | 2:42:31 | 2:42:34 | |
age. Faced with Democratic --
demographic pressures successive | 2:42:34 | 2:42:40 | |
governments have acted. We must be
realistic about the Democratic and | 2:42:40 | 2:42:44 | |
fiscal challenges this creates as a
society. Taking forward-looking | 2:42:44 | 2:42:49 | |
action is critical to protecting the
long-term sustainability of the | 2:42:49 | 2:42:52 | |
state pension, not only for today's
taxpayers but future generations. In | 2:42:52 | 2:42:57 | |
July of this year, the government
published its first review of the | 2:42:57 | 2:43:00 | |
state pension age which sets out a
coherent strategy targeted at | 2:43:00 | 2:43:04 | |
strengthening and sustaining the
pension system for many decades to | 2:43:04 | 2:43:08 | |
come. It accepts the key
recommendations of the independent | 2:43:08 | 2:43:10 | |
review. That consulted with a number
of people and organisations, | 2:43:10 | 2:43:16 | |
including the Scottish National
Party, to bring forward the increase | 2:43:16 | 2:43:19 | |
in state pension age from 67 to 68
by 20s -- 2037. | 2:43:19 | 2:43:25 | |
I will give way. Can the minister
explained to the House be potential | 2:43:25 | 2:43:32 | |
debt impact on future generations of
spending up to 39 billion, reverting | 2:43:32 | 2:43:38 | |
to the 1995 timetable, as well as
Labour plans to freeze any increases | 2:43:38 | 2:43:41 | |
in the state pension age which cost
hundreds of billions? I'm grateful | 2:43:41 | 2:43:45 | |
to my honourable friend for the
intervention. He has recognised the | 2:43:45 | 2:43:49 | |
fact that he has over 25 years
experience of working in the | 2:43:49 | 2:43:52 | |
pensions industry by his previous
journalistic experience. The reality | 2:43:52 | 2:43:58 | |
of the situation is that if the act
were to be revoked along with the | 2:43:58 | 2:44:03 | |
2011 act, that would cost well in
excess of £70 billion. If we were to | 2:44:03 | 2:44:09 | |
follow the path set out in the
Labour Party manifesto, which sees | 2:44:09 | 2:44:12 | |
all pension age to be restricted
post 66, that would cost | 2:44:12 | 2:44:18 | |
approximately £250 billion as
compared to the itinerary set out by | 2:44:18 | 2:44:24 | |
the independent review commissioned
by the government and provided in | 2:44:24 | 2:44:28 | |
the form of John Cridland. That
review was very clear. He quoted, in | 2:44:28 | 2:44:35 | |
1917, George L Allen the first
telegrams to those celebrating their | 2:44:35 | 2:44:38 | |
100th birthday. 20/ that year. In
2016, 60,000 would have received a | 2:44:38 | 2:44:46 | |
card from her Majesty. In 2050 we
expect over 56,000 people. Three | 2:44:46 | 2:44:51 | |
factors are at play. A growing
population, an ageing population as | 2:44:51 | 2:44:58 | |
the baby boomers retire. And an
unprecedented increase in life | 2:44:58 | 2:45:00 | |
expectancy. A baby girl born in 2017
can expect to live to be 94 years, | 2:45:00 | 2:45:06 | |
and a boy to be 91. By 2047 it could
well be 98 and 95 respectively. The | 2:45:06 | 2:45:15 | |
world of the third age is now a very
different one in which those lucky | 2:45:15 | 2:45:19 | |
enough to get the state pension will
on average spend almost a third of | 2:45:19 | 2:45:23 | |
their adult life in retirement, a
proportion never before reached. | 2:45:23 | 2:45:33 | |
I wonder if he could tell us what
specific help Jobcentre plus is able | 2:45:33 | 2:45:39 | |
to give older women to help them
retrain reskill to find | 2:45:39 | 2:45:43 | |
age-appropriate work. It's an issue
which a number of older women often | 2:45:43 | 2:45:47 | |
mentioned. My honourable friend will
be aware that there is a great deal | 2:45:47 | 2:45:53 | |
of assistance provided from the job
coaches who are there but it's not | 2:45:53 | 2:45:58 | |
just the job coaches and the job
centres. I would refer him also to | 2:45:58 | 2:46:02 | |
the local job clubs which I'm sure
existing his constituency to the | 2:46:02 | 2:46:07 | |
individual flexible working
arrangements that have been | 2:46:07 | 2:46:10 | |
introduced and more particularly to
jobs fears were general of | 2:46:10 | 2:46:13 | |
colleagues are put forward, I have
done three culminating in the last | 2:46:13 | 2:46:17 | |
one in September which was highly
successful on that point and there | 2:46:17 | 2:46:21 | |
is all manner of private sector
support on an ongoing basis. I will | 2:46:21 | 2:46:25 | |
give way in a moment. I will address
the issue in relation to Scotland | 2:46:25 | 2:46:29 | |
because I was surprised at the
honourable gentleman for the | 2:46:29 | 2:46:33 | |
Scottish National Party refused ten
times to give away. If I were him I | 2:46:33 | 2:46:36 | |
would be saying... I will not go
that way. In relation to the | 2:46:36 | 2:46:41 | |
Scottish National Party, in addition
to the substantial support that the | 2:46:41 | 2:46:44 | |
UK Government is providing, this
being worth 50 billion across the | 2:46:44 | 2:46:49 | |
country and 6% of GDP, the Scottish
Government also has significant new | 2:46:49 | 2:46:54 | |
powers are available to it to tailor
Belper provision for people in | 2:46:54 | 2:46:58 | |
Scotland. Whilst pensions remain
reserved matter, the Scotland act | 2:46:58 | 2:47:03 | |
3016 has given the Scottish
Government the ability to use a wide | 2:47:03 | 2:47:06 | |
range of new welfare provisions. My
honourable friend for Aberdeen South | 2:47:06 | 2:47:14 | |
correctly set out the provisions of
section 28 of the Scotland act. | 2:47:14 | 2:47:20 | |
There are section 24 hours as well.
I would refer all colleagues on both | 2:47:20 | 2:47:25 | |
sides of the House to the letter
written to my predecessor by my | 2:47:25 | 2:47:30 | |
opposite number in the Scottish
Government and it may assist if I | 2:47:30 | 2:47:34 | |
make the point that the reality of
the situation is that she says as | 2:47:34 | 2:47:41 | |
follows, the power under section 26
is limited to providing help with | 2:47:41 | 2:47:45 | |
short-term needs and those needs
must require to avoid a risk to a | 2:47:45 | 2:47:50 | |
person's well-being. I would not
readily allowed assistance to the | 2:47:50 | 2:47:56 | |
majority of women increasing the
state pension age, the needs would | 2:47:56 | 2:48:01 | |
had to be individually assessed but
the point I make, with respect, is | 2:48:01 | 2:48:05 | |
that there is an acceptance in that
letter and has been made clear by | 2:48:05 | 2:48:11 | |
colleagues from the Scottish
Conservatives that there is the | 2:48:11 | 2:48:16 | |
power there, they commenced on the
fifth September 20 16th and it is up | 2:48:16 | 2:48:20 | |
to the Scottish Government to
determine how it will use those. I'm | 2:48:20 | 2:48:30 | |
asking for your guidance of what we
can do, perhaps inadvertently, the | 2:48:30 | 2:48:35 | |
minister is seeking to mislead has
because it is crystal clear in the | 2:48:35 | 2:48:40 | |
Scotland Act 2016 that the Scottish
Government, the Scottish parliament | 2:48:40 | 2:48:43 | |
is not in a position of introducing
benefits by reason of old age. That | 2:48:43 | 2:48:47 | |
is quite clear and the Minister
should be truthful to the people of | 2:48:47 | 2:48:51 | |
this country and he should stop
blaming the Scottish National Party | 2:48:51 | 2:48:54 | |
and the Scottish Government for the
responsibility that solely lies here | 2:48:54 | 2:48:59 | |
with Westminster. Further to that
point of order. I will answer this | 2:48:59 | 2:49:06 | |
point of order first. First of all,
the Minister will be being truthful, | 2:49:06 | 2:49:12 | |
secondly, this is a matter for
debate. The honourable gentleman | 2:49:12 | 2:49:17 | |
knows that. Further to that point of
order. | 2:49:17 | 2:49:21 | |
The contradiction that it is
impossible, as the honourable | 2:49:23 | 2:49:27 | |
gentleman said. It is impossible to
inadvertently seek to mislead the | 2:49:27 | 2:49:32 | |
House. Rather it misleads it seeking
to do so or not. Helpful advice. We | 2:49:32 | 2:49:42 | |
will carry on with the debate and I
would suggest that we move on | 2:49:42 | 2:49:50 | |
because time is very limited and
what we don't want to do is delay | 2:49:50 | 2:49:54 | |
the debate further by continuous
points of order. | 2:49:54 | 2:49:57 | |
I fully understand that position and
I will move on but I will make one | 2:49:59 | 2:50:02 | |
single point in replying. The
honourable gentleman will understand | 2:50:02 | 2:50:06 | |
that I was very specific to read the
letter of the 22nd of June from | 2:50:06 | 2:50:11 | |
Jeanne Freeman and set out what she
herself has said. When he makes the | 2:50:11 | 2:50:19 | |
points criticising me, he has to be
aware and conscious that he is | 2:50:19 | 2:50:23 | |
criticising somebody from his own
side. I give away. In relation to | 2:50:23 | 2:50:29 | |
the point of order that was raised,
would you not agree with me that | 2:50:29 | 2:50:33 | |
actually the argument can be made
that if you are under the age of the | 2:50:33 | 2:50:37 | |
retirement age of 66, that is not
old age and already the Scottish | 2:50:37 | 2:50:40 | |
Government has been corresponding to
the DWP and the DWP have accepted | 2:50:40 | 2:50:44 | |
that very argument. They have the
powers, they just don't use them. | 2:50:44 | 2:50:49 | |
The reality of the situation is
given the motion that we face, one | 2:50:49 | 2:50:54 | |
has to ask what it is the Scottish
Government is doing and my | 2:50:54 | 2:50:58 | |
honourable friend is entirely right.
In relation to this matter, this | 2:50:58 | 2:51:02 | |
dates back of course to 1995, after
two years of debate and | 2:51:02 | 2:51:10 | |
consultation, the government
legislated to equalise the state | 2:51:10 | 2:51:12 | |
pension age to eliminate gender
inequalities in state pensions. | 2:51:12 | 2:51:18 | |
These were as a result welcome
increases in life expectancy and in | 2:51:18 | 2:51:21 | |
line with the anticipated increase
in the number of pensioners in years | 2:51:21 | 2:51:24 | |
to come. I will give way for a last
time. The point he made about the | 2:51:24 | 2:51:35 | |
fact about job centres, half of
Glasgow's job centres are closing. I | 2:51:35 | 2:51:41 | |
asked them ten days ago in
Westminster Hall, can he do know | 2:51:41 | 2:51:45 | |
what the life expectancy in Glasgow
East is? The honourable gentleman | 2:51:45 | 2:51:49 | |
will be aware that life expectancy
in all parts of the country have | 2:51:49 | 2:51:53 | |
increased over the last 30 years.
Without a shadow of a doubt, the | 2:51:53 | 2:51:59 | |
life expectancy is have increased in
all parts of the country in all | 2:51:59 | 2:52:04 | |
socio- economic groups and in the
circumstances that apply,, I | 2:52:04 | 2:52:09 | |
referred him to the Cleveland report
which accepts the situation -- | 2:52:09 | 2:52:14 | |
in relation to this matter, I was
attempting to outline the situation | 2:52:15 | 2:52:23 | |
that we face with developments that
included the act of 1995 and 2007, | 2:52:23 | 2:52:30 | |
when the Labour Party were in power.
It is a shame that the Labour Party | 2:52:30 | 2:52:35 | |
is now scrapping the fiscal prudence
that they seemed to be demonstrating | 2:52:35 | 2:52:39 | |
under the 2007 act by revoking their
desire to increase the pension age | 2:52:39 | 2:52:47 | |
post-60 six. The reality is that
thereafter, under the coalition, | 2:52:47 | 2:52:51 | |
action was taken under the 2011 act
and the 2011 act introduced into | 2:52:51 | 2:52:59 | |
this house and the coalition saw
increases in the pension age as a | 2:52:59 | 2:53:05 | |
result of the enhanced life
expectancy that took place. At the | 2:53:05 | 2:53:09 | |
same stage. I will not give way any
more because I am conscious that | 2:53:09 | 2:53:14 | |
there are 20 speakers to speak. In
relation to automatic enrolment, | 2:53:14 | 2:53:19 | |
this was introduced in 2012 on a
cross-party basis after considerable | 2:53:19 | 2:53:23 | |
amount of time and the important
point is that the overall | 2:53:23 | 2:53:27 | |
participation of female eligible
employees in 2012 was 58% but since | 2:53:27 | 2:53:33 | |
the introduction of automatic
enrolment, this has increased to 80% | 2:53:33 | 2:53:38 | |
in 2016. For males this has
increased from 52% to 76% in the | 2:53:38 | 2:53:43 | |
same period. Private sector has also
seen a largest increase in | 2:53:43 | 2:53:47 | |
participation in workplace pensions
and in 2016 there was no mind gender | 2:53:47 | 2:53:52 | |
gap in participation rates. In the
circumstances I would respectfully | 2:53:52 | 2:53:58 | |
point out that the key choice
government faces in these | 2:53:58 | 2:54:01 | |
circumstances when seeking to
control state pensions and is | 2:54:01 | 2:54:05 | |
whether to increase state pension
age or pay lower pensions with an | 2:54:05 | 2:54:09 | |
inevitable impact on pensioner
poverty. The only alternative is to | 2:54:09 | 2:54:13 | |
ask the working generation to pay an
even larger share of their income to | 2:54:13 | 2:54:18 | |
support pensioners. Whilst increased
longevity is something to be | 2:54:18 | 2:54:23 | |
celebrated, we must also be
realistic about the demographic and | 2:54:23 | 2:54:26 | |
fiscal challenges it creates for us
as a society processes the early to | 2:54:26 | 2:54:31 | |
thousands it has been widely
recognised we face big questions in | 2:54:31 | 2:54:35 | |
society about how we ensure economic
security for people in retirement | 2:54:35 | 2:54:39 | |
whilst maintaining fairness between
generations. The pensions commission | 2:54:39 | 2:54:42 | |
in 2005 found a station pension --
state pension age of 65 or is not | 2:54:42 | 2:54:51 | |
affordable. The separate acts
responded to changes in life | 2:54:51 | 2:54:59 | |
expectancy by changing the state
pension age. At the same time the | 2:54:59 | 2:55:02 | |
state pension has been increased in
2010-2017 by £1250 per year. With | 2:55:02 | 2:55:13 | |
increasing financial pressures, as
described, we cannot change a policy | 2:55:13 | 2:55:15 | |
that has been plummeted over 22
years are supported by all major | 2:55:15 | 2:55:19 | |
political parties -- which has been
implemented. The cost of an ageing | 2:55:19 | 2:55:24 | |
population has to be shared out
freely without placing an unfair | 2:55:24 | 2:55:27 | |
financial burden on future
generations. -- shared out freely. | 2:55:27 | 2:55:32 | |
-- fairly. | 2:55:32 | 2:55:36 | |
I despair because I have stood at
this dispatch box in Westminster | 2:55:38 | 2:55:42 | |
Hall debate, I have worked on the
pension schemes Bill Withers matter | 2:55:42 | 2:55:46 | |
taking centre stage, I have spoken
like many others on this issue many | 2:55:46 | 2:55:49 | |
times but isn't this Scottish
National Party who I believe that | 2:55:49 | 2:55:55 | |
nonmembers are my own party and not
the 1950s born women had been | 2:55:55 | 2:56:00 | |
consistent, energetic and strong of
pushing this issue, it's party | 2:56:00 | 2:56:03 | |
opposite that is the reason we are
debating this topic yet again but we | 2:56:03 | 2:56:07 | |
know that there are many MPs there
who have pledged their support for | 2:56:07 | 2:56:11 | |
the women in speeches, and taking
photo opportunities and in becoming | 2:56:11 | 2:56:14 | |
members of the all-party
Parliamentary group. A few months | 2:56:14 | 2:56:19 | |
ago I said there were no fewer than
37 MPs on the government benches who | 2:56:19 | 2:56:23 | |
did so, among them the honourable
members for berries and Edmonds, | 2:56:23 | 2:56:27 | |
Eastleigh, Salisbury, North Devon,
North Caldwell, Colchester -- North | 2:56:27 | 2:56:32 | |
Cornwall. This week government
continues to stick their head in the | 2:56:32 | 2:56:38 | |
sand and hope suitors issue will go
away. -- hopes this issue will go | 2:56:38 | 2:56:43 | |
away. I2 any times I have visited it
pensions minister, this is not going | 2:56:43 | 2:56:49 | |
to go away. I am impatient and
standing here begin debating this | 2:56:49 | 2:56:53 | |
topic when the government could do
something to fix the problem right | 2:56:53 | 2:56:57 | |
now. I don't understand the politics
of why the government refusing to | 2:56:57 | 2:57:01 | |
address it. The angered the older
generation during the auditor -- the | 2:57:01 | 2:57:08 | |
older generation and look at what
happened, they failed to get the | 2:57:08 | 2:57:15 | |
majority and are hanging on by their
teeth. | 2:57:15 | 2:57:17 | |
As a 1950s it women I am sympathetic
to the 4000 Waspi women in my | 2:57:19 | 2:57:23 | |
constituency and as my honourable
friend agree with me that what the | 2:57:23 | 2:57:28 | |
government has failed to understand
is that some of these women have | 2:57:28 | 2:57:30 | |
been working since they were 15.
That is most certainly the case and | 2:57:30 | 2:57:37 | |
the government need to understand
that my wife herself has been | 2:57:37 | 2:57:42 | |
working since that young age. Yet
were some reason the government are | 2:57:42 | 2:57:46 | |
persistent in pushing huge numbers
of 50s born women into financial | 2:57:46 | 2:57:50 | |
difficulty and distress. It's time
for the government to put their | 2:57:50 | 2:57:53 | |
pride aside and do what is right. | 2:57:53 | 2:57:57 | |
I thank my honourable friend for
acknowledging the financial plight | 2:57:58 | 2:58:02 | |
many of these women have been
entered into. My constituency, I | 2:58:02 | 2:58:06 | |
have got women have been forced to
sell their homes, remortgage their | 2:58:06 | 2:58:10 | |
homes and to use the money they had
set aside for their retirement to | 2:58:10 | 2:58:14 | |
spend it now to exist. Their
retirement will be increased in its | 2:58:14 | 2:58:17 | |
poverty because of that. That has
not been acknowledged at all by the | 2:58:17 | 2:58:21 | |
government. Indeed it has not and
there will be many examples we will | 2:58:21 | 2:58:26 | |
hear is this debate goes on this
afternoon. I have heard from | 2:58:26 | 2:58:30 | |
numerous women affected by the
changes and heard stories of their | 2:58:30 | 2:58:34 | |
desperation and fear and it is clear
about how the ugly to call in | 2:58:34 | 2:58:38 | |
poverty, in poverty, as they wait
longer for their state pension -- | 2:58:38 | 2:58:49 | |
about how fearful they are to go
into poverty. The job market with | 2:58:49 | 2:58:53 | |
skills needed in today's workplace
are a very different world from that | 2:58:53 | 2:58:56 | |
of 40 years ago. Dawes honourable
friend agree with me that the | 2:58:56 | 2:59:06 | |
government have a real opportunity,
the bollards in their court, before | 2:59:06 | 2:59:09 | |
the joint action, the action from
the administration compels the | 2:59:09 | 2:59:13 | |
government to act. That is very much
the case and thank you to reference | 2:59:13 | 2:59:19 | |
that. What we have is a system that
doesn't help older people to get | 2:59:19 | 2:59:25 | |
back into meaningful employment. We
have a welfare system that is torn | 2:59:25 | 2:59:30 | |
to pieces, disabled people being
humiliated through repetitive | 2:59:30 | 2:59:33 | |
assessments and a state pension that
is becoming increasingly difficult | 2:59:33 | 2:59:37 | |
to access. The Labour Party have
laid at our approach to reducing the | 2:59:37 | 2:59:41 | |
strain on vulnerable and struggling
women to extended pension credit who | 2:59:41 | 2:59:45 | |
were due to retire before the
pension increased to alleviate the | 2:59:45 | 2:59:49 | |
toughest circumstances and restore
the faith and dignity that many feel | 2:59:49 | 2:59:52 | |
they have lost. Extending pension
credit would provide support with up | 2:59:52 | 2:59:56 | |
to £135 per week to half a million
of the most vulnerable women who had | 2:59:56 | 3:00:00 | |
been affected by this increase in
the state pension age. | 3:00:00 | 3:00:06 | |
We propose allowing those affected
to receive their state pension up to | 3:00:06 | 3:00:10 | |
two years early to give women the
choice of what works best. I have | 3:00:10 | 3:00:16 | |
got a great deal of sympathy for the
women concerned. The issue is about | 3:00:16 | 3:00:21 | |
paying for it. I know it is an issue
the Labour Party don't tend to | 3:00:21 | 3:00:26 | |
concern themselves with. I would
support taking money from the | 3:00:26 | 3:00:29 | |
overseas aid budget to help some
transitional arrangements for these | 3:00:29 | 3:00:33 | |
women. Would the Shadow minister
show his concerned by agreeing to | 3:00:33 | 3:00:38 | |
that, or does he put overseas aid
ahead of the WASPI women? We know as | 3:00:38 | 3:00:46 | |
Jeep DP is going down, the amount of
money being spent overseas is | 3:00:46 | 3:00:50 | |
reducing. -- GDP. If we need to find
the money, we can start looking | 3:00:50 | 3:00:56 | |
within British budgets in order to
do that. Why doesn't the government | 3:00:56 | 3:01:03 | |
look at our proposals? Why don't
they give these women some hope? We | 3:01:03 | 3:01:07 | |
have heard from the Minister. We
have heard that it is not the | 3:01:07 | 3:01:11 | |
government position to make further
concessions. I urge him to go back | 3:01:11 | 3:01:15 | |
to the Secretary of State after this
debate and persuade him to think | 3:01:15 | 3:01:18 | |
again. Earlier this year the
Secretary of State said the | 3:01:18 | 3:01:23 | |
Department of work and pensions
would look into individual cases of | 3:01:23 | 3:01:27 | |
hardship. We know from a Freedom of
information request that the DWP has | 3:01:27 | 3:01:32 | |
concluded just a handful of
complaint investigations relating to | 3:01:32 | 3:01:37 | |
the 50s born women campaign, with
over 4500 complaints received. Can | 3:01:37 | 3:01:43 | |
the Minister update the House on the
progress on these complaints? I | 3:01:43 | 3:01:49 | |
thank him forgiving way. Isn't the
real situation here, like my | 3:01:49 | 3:01:53 | |
constituent who wrote to me a
fortnight ago, someone born in 1954 | 3:01:53 | 3:01:58 | |
who had been in insecure, low paid
work with no access to occupational | 3:01:58 | 3:02:03 | |
pension, and the government must
address this issue. I said a few | 3:02:03 | 3:02:09 | |
minutes ago we would hear many
further examples of the plight that | 3:02:09 | 3:02:13 | |
is being faced by 50s born women and
of course that is yet another one. | 3:02:13 | 3:02:17 | |
Whilst I agree this is a mess
created by the government, I wanted | 3:02:17 | 3:02:22 | |
to touch upon the Scottish
government and their powers around | 3:02:22 | 3:02:26 | |
Social Security. I know there have
been heated exchanges on this | 3:02:26 | 3:02:29 | |
already. The SNP says it cannot act
in Scotland because pension | 3:02:29 | 3:02:35 | |
provision is a matter reserved for
the UK government. Although that is | 3:02:35 | 3:02:39 | |
true, the Scotland act gave the SNP
powers to top up are create new | 3:02:39 | 3:02:45 | |
Social Security 's policies. They
denied they had the powers to act to | 3:02:45 | 3:02:51 | |
introduce these new benefits based
on age. Perhaps the Minister could | 3:02:51 | 3:02:55 | |
agree and commit this afternoon to
publish a clear paper, outlining | 3:02:55 | 3:03:01 | |
exactly what they believe the
Scottish government can | 3:03:01 | 3:03:12 | |
matter will be clear once and for
all. Labour committed to extending | 3:03:12 | 3:03:14 | |
paying credit... Use your powers
north of the border to help women | 3:03:14 | 3:03:27 | |
there. If they are insufficient,
chat to the government. They believe | 3:03:27 | 3:03:34 | |
you do have the powers. I appreciate
the Minister for allowing me to | 3:03:34 | 3:03:41 | |
intervene. I don't think anybody on
these benches feels the need for any | 3:03:41 | 3:03:46 | |
clarification because it is already
there. We all remember very vividly | 3:03:46 | 3:03:50 | |
how it was the Conservatives, and
I'm not trying to make a party | 3:03:50 | 3:03:55 | |
point, but the Labour Party as well,
that made sure we didn't have power | 3:03:55 | 3:03:59 | |
over pensions. Nobody is suggesting
you do. You could have Social | 3:03:59 | 3:04:08 | |
Security policies you could use. I
would suggest again you chat to the | 3:04:08 | 3:04:13 | |
government. You need to get your
heads together and actually discuss | 3:04:13 | 3:04:17 | |
quite rationally. I would rather see
a paper published by the government | 3:04:17 | 3:04:20 | |
actually spelling this out. Now
Madam Deputy Speaker, I don't want | 3:04:20 | 3:04:25 | |
to remain standing here yet again to
debate this issue. I don't want to | 3:04:25 | 3:04:30 | |
see us raising the hopes of the 50s
born women who are fighting because | 3:04:30 | 3:04:34 | |
this is their livelihood we are
talking about. I want the Minister | 3:04:34 | 3:04:37 | |
to do something. To reach out across
the benches and work for a real | 3:04:37 | 3:04:42 | |
solution to demonstrate that this
House is listening to the residents | 3:04:42 | 3:04:45 | |
of this country. Before I conclude,
and I'm nearly finished, before I | 3:04:45 | 3:04:49 | |
conclude, I would like to ask the
Minister what his department is | 3:04:49 | 3:04:54 | |
doing in relation to legal challenge
mentioned by my honourable friend, | 3:04:54 | 3:04:59 | |
what is the government doing about
the legal challenge from the WASPI | 3:04:59 | 3:05:02 | |
campaigners? Has he made
contingencies for the day when the | 3:05:02 | 3:05:07 | |
courts may well rule against the
government in order that the 50s | 3:05:07 | 3:05:12 | |
born women are compensated? What is
actually happening in relation to | 3:05:12 | 3:05:16 | |
that? Whilst we support the SNP
motion today, I think we need the | 3:05:16 | 3:05:20 | |
House to be able to vote on a motion
that would be binding on the | 3:05:20 | 3:05:24 | |
government. I'm grateful to him
forgiving way. The government does | 3:05:24 | 3:05:30 | |
not believe there has been
maladministration by the Department | 3:05:30 | 3:05:34 | |
of work and pensions in relation to
the legal claim, and that includes | 3:05:34 | 3:05:40 | |
the 13 years when the Labour Party
was in power. The second point is in | 3:05:40 | 3:05:44 | |
relation to his assertions on the
Scottish government, the situation | 3:05:44 | 3:05:48 | |
is that I cited the letter from the
Scottish government themselves on | 3:05:48 | 3:05:51 | |
the 22nd of June by Jeane Freeman,
my opposite number. I am very | 3:05:51 | 3:05:57 | |
grateful to the Minister for that
intervention. But he knows as well | 3:05:57 | 3:06:01 | |
as I do that successive governments
have turned over time and time again | 3:06:01 | 3:06:06 | |
and and up having to pay for it.
What I want to say, I want to see a | 3:06:06 | 3:06:15 | |
motion that means something, a
motion that would be binding on the | 3:06:15 | 3:06:18 | |
government, that would make
something happen to deliver some of | 3:06:18 | 3:06:21 | |
the release many of these women
desperately need. We will continue | 3:06:21 | 3:06:24 | |
to look for that opportunity. Then
we will call out the supporters of | 3:06:24 | 3:06:29 | |
the 50s born women on all sides of
the house to vote for that relief | 3:06:29 | 3:06:33 | |
and actually make something happen.
Thank you. | 3:06:33 | 3:06:36 | |
Thank you. This is a matter that we
have debated on numerous occasions. | 3:06:36 | 3:06:42 | |
It is important that it is not used
for the purpose of political | 3:06:42 | 3:06:48 | |
expediency because many people are
experiencing very serious | 3:06:48 | 3:06:51 | |
challenges. It is necessary for us
to listen to them and to seek to | 3:06:51 | 3:06:57 | |
address their concerns in a
responsible, financially prudent but | 3:06:57 | 3:07:01 | |
also a just and fairway. I have
received a great deal of | 3:07:01 | 3:07:07 | |
correspondence over the past few
years from constituents graphically | 3:07:07 | 3:07:10 | |
highlighting the challenge they
face. When many of us present | 3:07:10 | 3:07:16 | |
petitions in this chamber last
autumn, I was in the second place | 3:07:16 | 3:07:20 | |
behind the honourable member for
Hull north in terms of the number of | 3:07:20 | 3:07:24 | |
people who had signed the Waverley
petition of just under 2250. This | 3:07:24 | 3:07:30 | |
petition was endorsed unanimously by
Conservative run Waverly district | 3:07:30 | 3:07:33 | |
Council. The impact of these changes
is being felt disproportionately | 3:07:33 | 3:07:38 | |
across the UK. In those areas where
there has been traditional women | 3:07:38 | 3:07:41 | |
going out to work, whether in
factories, agriculture, fishing, | 3:07:41 | 3:07:45 | |
food processing or clerical post,
often part-time, not on high | 3:07:45 | 3:07:53 | |
salaries, these changes are
affecting a lot of women in their | 3:07:53 | 3:07:56 | |
families -- and their families. In
my constituency this has been the | 3:07:56 | 3:08:01 | |
case that many of those businesses
are no longer there. There were | 3:08:01 | 3:08:04 | |
numerous jobs in the fishing
industry and support industries | 3:08:04 | 3:08:09 | |
there, and the television factory. I
acknowledge the challenges the | 3:08:09 | 3:08:14 | |
government face in addressing this
injustice both in terms of coming up | 3:08:14 | 3:08:17 | |
with a solution that is fair and
affordable, and complies with | 3:08:17 | 3:08:23 | |
equalities legislation. I urge them
to work and to look at this very | 3:08:23 | 3:08:26 | |
carefully going forward. There are
numbered -- two current Private | 3:08:26 | 3:08:34 | |
Members' Bill is before Parliament
which propose a review of these | 3:08:34 | 3:08:37 | |
pension arrangements. One from my
honourable friend, the member for | 3:08:37 | 3:08:43 | |
Wellingborough, and the other from
my honourable friend, the member for | 3:08:43 | 3:08:45 | |
Swansea East. I am a supporter of
the latter bill. I urge the | 3:08:45 | 3:08:50 | |
government to consider carrying out
a full and proper, meaningful | 3:08:50 | 3:08:55 | |
review. And for that reason I will
not be supporting this motion | 3:08:55 | 3:09:00 | |
tonight because I don't believe it
provides the evidence base that we | 3:09:00 | 3:09:03 | |
need to find a fair, affordable and
just solution. In conclusion, as I | 3:09:03 | 3:09:11 | |
have mentioned, this is an issue
which is disproportionately | 3:09:11 | 3:09:15 | |
affecting specific part of the
country. I does ask the government | 3:09:15 | 3:09:19 | |
to carry out the search to establish
the extent of the problem which can | 3:09:19 | 3:09:23 | |
then be used to arrive at a fair and
affordable solution that addresses | 3:09:23 | 3:09:28 | |
pockets of area in the country where
there is a real problem. | 3:09:28 | 3:09:37 | |
The last time I spoke on this matter
I said I welcome the opportunity to | 3:09:37 | 3:09:41 | |
make another contribution on the
WASPI. That was over 18 months ago. | 3:09:41 | 3:09:46 | |
I don't welcome having to make this
argument again. I think it is | 3:09:46 | 3:09:50 | |
absolutely ridiculous this
government has refused to help this | 3:09:50 | 3:09:53 | |
-- these women, whose only crime was
to be born in the 1950s. Governments | 3:09:53 | 3:10:00 | |
difference persuasions have been
culpable. We can sit and squabble | 3:10:00 | 3:10:03 | |
all day about who did what and who's
to blame. The problem is in the here | 3:10:03 | 3:10:07 | |
and now the reality is kicking in
fur women in Ayrshire North. There | 3:10:07 | 3:10:12 | |
are 3.7 million women and their
families across the UK. It forced | 3:10:12 | 3:10:18 | |
the government to address this mess.
I pay tribute to the WASPI campaign. | 3:10:18 | 3:10:22 | |
Once again, all these women are
asking for is fairness. This is the | 3:10:22 | 3:10:27 | |
11th time, the 11th time that the
plight has been debated in this | 3:10:27 | 3:10:31 | |
House. There have been many
responses ranging from the | 3:10:31 | 3:10:36 | |
incompetent to everything in
between. I was hoping for a better | 3:10:36 | 3:10:39 | |
speech from the Minister, given the
precarious position of this Prime | 3:10:39 | 3:10:47 | |
Minister and this government. I have
spoken to members opposite. I have | 3:10:47 | 3:10:56 | |
overheard conversations about this
issue where members conceded was | 3:10:56 | 3:10:58 | |
bungled and they accept that many
women impacted by this reform were | 3:10:58 | 3:11:02 | |
only told 13 years after the changes
were made. But it's just too darn | 3:11:02 | 3:11:08 | |
expensive to do anything about it.
But times have changed. The | 3:11:08 | 3:11:11 | |
Chancellor has found his magic money
tree. £1 billion to the DWP. £6.7 | 3:11:11 | 3:11:19 | |
billion for Brexit negotiations.
Before you know it is it is real | 3:11:19 | 3:11:22 | |
money. Billions on Castro votes but
nothing for these women who put into | 3:11:22 | 3:11:27 | |
the system all of their lives. --
Castro votes. Many of the women | 3:11:27 | 3:11:34 | |
affected will face further burdens
in their cost of living. It is vital | 3:11:34 | 3:11:39 | |
now more than ever that they are
supported. This is why we will not | 3:11:39 | 3:11:43 | |
stop until justice is served. The
Chancellor's budget was a huge | 3:11:43 | 3:11:47 | |
missed opportunity to offer
protection from the WASPI women. As | 3:11:47 | 3:11:54 | |
it continues to shirk its
responsibility is, I hope those | 3:11:54 | 3:11:57 | |
Scottish Tories keen to support the
WASPI campaign will vote with their | 3:11:57 | 3:12:01 | |
consciences rather than according to
the whips. In conclusion, I would | 3:12:01 | 3:12:06 | |
like to echo the words of the former
member for Foyle, Mark Durkan, who | 3:12:06 | 3:12:10 | |
has been a great loss to this House.
He said, in a passionate | 3:12:10 | 3:12:15 | |
contribution in one of the previous
WASPI debates, if we fail to pass | 3:12:15 | 3:12:18 | |
this motion, we will be saying those
women are unacceptable casualty on | 3:12:18 | 3:12:23 | |
the way to quality. We can -- we
cannot accept it. | 3:12:23 | 3:12:31 | |
Equalising the state pension age
between men and women is a principle | 3:12:31 | 3:12:36 | |
the UK government, the WASPI
campaign and all of us in this | 3:12:36 | 3:12:38 | |
chamber agree. However, there is
rightly concerned at the unfair and | 3:12:38 | 3:12:45 | |
disproportionate women born in the
1950s. This is shared on all sides | 3:12:45 | 3:12:51 | |
of this house. In my constituency of
Aberdeen South, 5200 women are | 3:12:51 | 3:12:55 | |
affected. Since the general election
in June I have been meeting with | 3:12:55 | 3:13:02 | |
local women who have been impacted
by these changes and who in some | 3:13:02 | 3:13:05 | |
cases have had to radically change
their retirement plans because they | 3:13:05 | 3:13:10 | |
were not made properly aware of the
1995 changes. One constituent I | 3:13:10 | 3:13:17 | |
recently met was employed in NHS
Grampian 439 years. Her whole | 3:13:17 | 3:13:21 | |
working life she worked hard, she
worked she had no maternity leave, | 3:13:21 | 3:13:26 | |
she had no long-term sick leave
until June -- during the last few | 3:13:26 | 3:13:30 | |
years of her work, because of cancer
of first the womb and then the bone | 3:13:30 | 3:13:35 | |
marrow, she had to take a couple of
months of. Then she requested to | 3:13:35 | 3:13:41 | |
take retirement. She was 60 on
December the 1st 2016. Because of | 3:13:41 | 3:13:45 | |
the changes in state pension policy,
she's not receiving a state pension, | 3:13:45 | 3:13:50 | |
even though she paid in full for 39
years. | 3:13:50 | 3:13:59 | |
This has caused concern for my
constituent. Last Friday, I met with | 3:13:59 | 3:14:03 | |
a constituent who is 61, expecting
to receive her state pension in | 3:14:03 | 3:14:08 | |
2016. She has contributed to
national insurance for over 40 years | 3:14:08 | 3:14:11 | |
and received her first letter from
the DWP about the age changes in | 3:14:11 | 3:14:16 | |
2013. At that time she was in full
employment and good health. Her | 3:14:16 | 3:14:21 | |
circumstances changed when she was
made redundant and diagnosed with | 3:14:21 | 3:14:24 | |
breast cancer. I'm thankful my
constituent has made a recovery | 3:14:24 | 3:14:28 | |
through successful treatment.
However, she finds herself in a | 3:14:28 | 3:14:31 | |
situation of having no income. The
downturn in oil and gas in Aberdeen | 3:14:31 | 3:14:36 | |
has made it very difficult to even
get a job interview. At the moment, | 3:14:36 | 3:14:39 | |
she is having to rely on the very
pot of savings she worked hard to | 3:14:39 | 3:14:44 | |
build up. I want to highlight these
cases as a reminder that the state | 3:14:44 | 3:14:48 | |
pension system is founded on a
contributory principle. It is not a | 3:14:48 | 3:14:52 | |
welfare benefit. These cases show
that this group of women have done | 3:14:52 | 3:14:55 | |
the right thing, worked hard all
their lives, paid their dues in good | 3:14:55 | 3:15:02 | |
faith and are getting short-changed.
It is not fair. We had a lot of | 3:15:02 | 3:15:05 | |
bluster from the benches opposite.
Let's be clear that the Scottish | 3:15:05 | 3:15:12 | |
Government have the power to make a
change. They have shown that not | 3:15:12 | 3:15:14 | |
only are they incompetent at using
them, they refuse to use them. Let's | 3:15:14 | 3:15:20 | |
be absolutely clear that my
constituents know that I will make | 3:15:20 | 3:15:23 | |
their voices heard loud and clear in
this place. Thank you. Here we go | 3:15:23 | 3:15:34 | |
again. Another day, another debate
discussing the injustice to the | 3:15:34 | 3:15:39 | |
1950s women as a result of the
pension changes. Over 3 million | 3:15:39 | 3:15:44 | |
women have lost out because of the
changes to pension law. Over 3000 on | 3:15:44 | 3:15:48 | |
my own constituency of Swansea East
have been unfairly treated by the | 3:15:48 | 3:15:54 | |
changes to state pension. I thank my
friend forgiving way. Does she agree | 3:15:54 | 3:16:01 | |
with me that many of these women
have worked in manual jobs since | 3:16:01 | 3:16:04 | |
they were 15, sometimes 14 years of
age? They deserve fair play. I | 3:16:04 | 3:16:11 | |
certainly agree. These women have
been the backbone of our country and | 3:16:11 | 3:16:15 | |
they have been betrayed by this
government. What is really scary is | 3:16:15 | 3:16:20 | |
how many women don't realise that
they have been affected. And yet | 3:16:20 | 3:16:24 | |
this government are still not
listening. They have betrayed these | 3:16:24 | 3:16:27 | |
women, they have stolen their
security and they have shattered | 3:16:27 | 3:16:31 | |
their dreams. Without the time to
prepare and make the necessary | 3:16:31 | 3:16:34 | |
alternative arrangements, very many
women born in the 1950s have been | 3:16:34 | 3:16:39 | |
left in financial despair. I
certainly will. The Honourable | 3:16:39 | 3:16:46 | |
Member talked about shattering
lives. In my constituency, women | 3:16:46 | 3:16:50 | |
have some of the shortest life
expectancy is in the islands and it | 3:16:50 | 3:16:54 | |
is a brutal attack on end of life
progress, if they are living with a | 3:16:54 | 3:16:58 | |
long-term condition that comes to a
brutal end with no pension from the | 3:16:58 | 3:17:00 | |
government. It's cruel, there is no
other way to describe the current | 3:17:00 | 3:17:07 | |
state of play. These women have
fought tirelessly for justice. | 3:17:07 | 3:17:12 | |
Appallingly, there tries for justice
are falling on deaf ears. I think | 3:17:12 | 3:17:16 | |
most people are aware of my passion
for this campaign, and I know the | 3:17:16 | 3:17:22 | |
women are not going to give up, so
none of us are going away. You know | 3:17:22 | 3:17:26 | |
what? The problem isn't going away.
These 1950s women have been | 3:17:26 | 3:17:31 | |
inexcusably disadvantaged by the
handling and communication of the | 3:17:31 | 3:17:35 | |
state, changes to the state pension.
Some women will be as much as | 3:17:35 | 3:17:39 | |
£40,000 out of pocket. These women
have paid into the system since the | 3:17:39 | 3:17:45 | |
1960s. They paid in, with the
expectation they would retire with a | 3:17:45 | 3:17:51 | |
state pension at 60. Due to an
abysmal lack of correspondence, they | 3:17:51 | 3:17:56 | |
find themselves severely out of
pocket. They have not been given | 3:17:56 | 3:18:00 | |
enough time to make alternative
arrangements. As a result, very many | 3:18:00 | 3:18:05 | |
are facing dire financial hardship. | 3:18:05 | 3:18:10 | |
Obviously this is a UK wide issue,
it is not an issue just of women in | 3:18:15 | 3:18:19 | |
Scotland. Can I just say, the women
I have spoken to are not looking for | 3:18:19 | 3:18:24 | |
the kind of crisis grants that the
Scottish Government can deliver, | 3:18:24 | 3:18:28 | |
they do not want to go begging, they
actually want what they are due. Not | 3:18:28 | 3:18:34 | |
wanted to get involved in the
argument about what the Scottish | 3:18:34 | 3:18:38 | |
Government can and cannot do, I
agree that this is a matter that | 3:18:38 | 3:18:42 | |
affects all women, regardless of
their nationality. Many in this | 3:18:42 | 3:18:49 | |
house stand by these women. I call
upon the government to make a | 3:18:49 | 3:18:53 | |
commitment, to look again at this
gross injustice and discuss a | 3:18:53 | 3:18:57 | |
productive and constructive way
forward for the women affected. Some | 3:18:57 | 3:19:07 | |
women were expected to jump through
hoops to receive unemployment | 3:19:07 | 3:19:12 | |
benefits. They do so, risking their
own physical and mental health. The | 3:19:12 | 3:19:17 | |
reality is that these women are
desperate. It has affected women | 3:19:17 | 3:19:22 | |
from all over the country, and they
are calling my office every day, | 3:19:22 | 3:19:25 | |
letting me know that they have had
to... I'm going to make progress. | 3:19:25 | 3:19:28 | |
They are going to have to sell their
belongings, they are relying on | 3:19:28 | 3:19:33 | |
family and friends, and food banks,
just to exist. This is the reality. | 3:19:33 | 3:19:38 | |
I understand this may not be
comfortable to listen to, but it is | 3:19:38 | 3:19:43 | |
reality. These women are only asking
for compassion, for fair play, and, | 3:19:43 | 3:19:52 | |
most importantly, for respect. I
call on this government to stop | 3:19:52 | 3:19:56 | |
burying their heads in the sand and
do the right thing by these women. | 3:19:56 | 3:19:59 | |
My bill is due for a second reading
in April. It states that these women | 3:19:59 | 3:20:03 | |
need reasonable transactional
arrangements to allow them... I'm | 3:20:03 | 3:20:08 | |
going to make progress. Not just to
enjoy retirement, but to survive | 3:20:08 | 3:20:12 | |
retirement. Across the house, so
many agree that these changes to the | 3:20:12 | 3:20:18 | |
state pension are unjust and unfair.
They agree that these women have | 3:20:18 | 3:20:23 | |
been robbed of a pension. That is
the word. When will the Government | 3:20:23 | 3:20:32 | |
recognise the mistake they have
made? These women will not be | 3:20:32 | 3:20:34 | |
ignored. Over the past two and a
half years I have met with many | 3:20:34 | 3:20:43 | |
constituents that have been affected
directly by the various changes in | 3:20:43 | 3:20:46 | |
the state pension age. Talking to
them and listening to them, it is | 3:20:46 | 3:20:53 | |
impossible not to feel every
sympathy with the circumstances in | 3:20:53 | 3:20:55 | |
which many find themselves. I know
that if I found out I will not be | 3:20:55 | 3:21:05 | |
able to retire at the age I
respected, I would tell you how it | 3:21:05 | 3:21:08 | |
would feel, but I feel it might be
unparliamentary language. What I can | 3:21:08 | 3:21:16 | |
say is, as a teenage boy in nearly
1990s, I probably didn't pay as much | 3:21:16 | 3:21:20 | |
attention to women's pensions as
many people. But I do remember in | 3:21:20 | 3:21:30 | |
1993 when it was announced that the
state pension age was going to have | 3:21:30 | 3:21:34 | |
to be equalised upwards. There was
widespread publicity at the time, | 3:21:34 | 3:21:41 | |
through the media, as well as
through the leaflets to which the | 3:21:41 | 3:21:44 | |
honourable gentleman refers.
Nonetheless, it is clear that there | 3:21:44 | 3:21:53 | |
are many women that, for one reason
or another, were genuinely unaware, | 3:21:53 | 3:21:57 | |
as late as 2012, 6% of women still
expected to retire at 60, in spite | 3:21:57 | 3:22:12 | |
of the 11 million letters that have
been sent out by the DWP. However, | 3:22:12 | 3:22:16 | |
that was significant progress since
2004, when 73% of women affected | 3:22:16 | 3:22:27 | |
were aware of the 1995 reforms that
the state pension age was changed | 3:22:27 | 3:22:33 | |
by. Clearly, there are solid reasons
why successive governments and many | 3:22:33 | 3:22:41 | |
other developed economies have been
increasing and equalising their | 3:22:41 | 3:22:45 | |
state pension age. The fact that
even a relatively small proportion | 3:22:45 | 3:22:56 | |
of people affected were unaware of
things that were going to have such | 3:22:56 | 3:22:59 | |
a large impact on their retirement,
I think it raises broader issues | 3:22:59 | 3:23:05 | |
about how public authorities can
communicate issues surrounding | 3:23:05 | 3:23:11 | |
pensions that I think government at
all levels has to consider. The | 3:23:11 | 3:23:20 | |
truth is that the state pension age
is not going to be reduced to 60. It | 3:23:20 | 3:23:24 | |
would arguably be illegal under
anti-discrimination legislation. We | 3:23:24 | 3:23:29 | |
have to look at what can be done to
not only help those women born in | 3:23:29 | 3:23:34 | |
the 1950s back into work, but all of
those that are going to find | 3:23:34 | 3:23:37 | |
themselves working later. I hope the
Government can come up with further | 3:23:37 | 3:23:41 | |
suggestions as to what support can
be provided. | 3:23:41 | 3:23:46 | |
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.
When people ask me what it is like | 3:23:47 | 3:23:53 | |
Westminster, quite often I feel I
live in a parallel universe to the | 3:23:53 | 3:23:59 | |
Tory party opposite. I am sure that
they feel the same about me. Looking | 3:23:59 | 3:24:07 | |
at some of the concerns I have heard
from Tories recently, we have heard | 3:24:07 | 3:24:11 | |
about concerns about whether big
by... Big Ben is going to bong or | 3:24:11 | 3:24:21 | |
not, if clerks are going to wear
wigs, if you can ask questions | 3:24:21 | 3:24:25 | |
without a tie, that some other
things that have concerned the | 3:24:25 | 3:24:27 | |
Tories opposite. Then I hear them
saying, my neighbours up job | 3:24:27 | 3:24:33 | |
centres, they hear people saying it
is great being in Universal Credit, | 3:24:33 | 3:24:36 | |
I find work. I meet these people at
the Jobcentre. The Debuchy Prime | 3:24:36 | 3:24:47 | |
Minister said that the WASPI should
be able to get a printer ships, the | 3:24:47 | 3:24:51 | |
Chancellor recently said there is no
unemployed. They said the majority | 3:24:51 | 3:24:54 | |
of people knew about the changes to
the pension age. That is a different | 3:24:54 | 3:24:56 | |
world that they live in, compared to
the one I live in. I would like to | 3:24:56 | 3:25:05 | |
ask the minister opposite what is
wrong with a woman aged 65 taking an | 3:25:05 | 3:25:10 | |
apprenticeship? Why would he deny
any woman the chance to work at the | 3:25:10 | 3:25:16 | |
age of 65? Why? That is a nonsense
argument. I would have thought they | 3:25:16 | 3:25:27 | |
would get paid apprenticeship levy
as well, a shocking the minimum wage | 3:25:27 | 3:25:31 | |
for apprenticeships. The Honourable
Member for Taunton and Dean stood up | 3:25:31 | 3:25:34 | |
and said the people of Taunton have
thousands of pounds more money in | 3:25:34 | 3:25:38 | |
their pocket. It really is a
different world. We know that people | 3:25:38 | 3:25:43 | |
in Universal Credit struggle and
their debts increase. We know that | 3:25:43 | 3:25:47 | |
food bank usage is up. I cannot give
way of too many people want to | 3:25:47 | 3:25:50 | |
speak. It is only this month that a
British medical journey study | 3:25:50 | 3:25:55 | |
estimated that up to 120,000 deaths
in England and Wales could be | 3:25:55 | 3:26:00 | |
attributed to the Tory austerity
policy. It people aged 60 plus are | 3:26:00 | 3:26:06 | |
most at risk. It only touches on the
world that some of the WASPI women | 3:26:06 | 3:26:13 | |
inhabit. Having to sell homes and
downsize to survive, mental health | 3:26:13 | 3:26:18 | |
problems associated with stress, the
humiliation of seeking jobs, marital | 3:26:18 | 3:26:21 | |
pressure and marital break-ups. Even
living with the daily anger and | 3:26:21 | 3:26:27 | |
disappointment at being let down by
the state, and to be let down by | 3:26:27 | 3:26:31 | |
this government that refuses to
listen. During the last SNP | 3:26:31 | 3:26:35 | |
opposition debate, the then
Secretary of State challenged our | 3:26:35 | 3:26:39 | |
costed proposals, £8 billion to
reverse the 2011 act. He said, we | 3:26:39 | 3:26:43 | |
need to look at the longer term
horizon. Well, just a few months | 3:26:43 | 3:26:49 | |
later the Tories trekked through the
lobby, the next Budget, and voted | 3:26:49 | 3:26:53 | |
for £30 billion of tax cuts,
corporation tax giveaways. Even if | 3:26:53 | 3:27:02 | |
it is going to cost £30 billion, it
could have been found and it was | 3:27:02 | 3:27:09 | |
there in the last Budget. This
Budget has just been passed. £3.2 | 3:27:09 | 3:27:13 | |
billion stamp duty tax ever way that
is going to increase house prices. | 3:27:13 | 3:27:19 | |
£3.7 billion for Brexit preparations
and an additional £7 billion for the | 3:27:19 | 3:27:23 | |
National productivity fun. I welcome
that money, but it shows that the | 3:27:23 | 3:27:27 | |
magic money tree exists and the
money can be found whenever the | 3:27:27 | 3:27:30 | |
Tories want it. We have actually
heard before that there is an | 3:27:30 | 3:27:33 | |
argument that the state pension
equalisation is all because of the | 3:27:33 | 3:27:37 | |
bad EU, EU rules that has forced it
upon us. I've not heard one of the | 3:27:37 | 3:27:43 | |
Brexiteers in the government coming
and saying that one of the benefits | 3:27:43 | 3:27:46 | |
of leaving the EU is that we can
reverse the 2011 act. They never | 3:27:46 | 3:27:52 | |
said, let's stick it to the EU and
give these women what they deserve. | 3:27:52 | 3:27:56 | |
It is high time this Government
starts listening. Like my honourable | 3:27:56 | 3:28:04 | |
friend the member for Dudley South,
I agree with his point that when you | 3:28:04 | 3:28:09 | |
meet the WASPI campaigners, they are
very passionate and tenacious. One | 3:28:09 | 3:28:13 | |
does sympathise with those that,
having saved all their lives, they | 3:28:13 | 3:28:17 | |
feel they were not given adequate
notice. Obviously there is a very | 3:28:17 | 3:28:21 | |
legitimate grievance there. The
point is this. As parliamentarians, | 3:28:21 | 3:28:25 | |
if we decide to go through a
division lobby and vote for | 3:28:25 | 3:28:28 | |
something, to join a cause, to jump
on a bandwagon, we must honestly | 3:28:28 | 3:28:33 | |
have a credible funded policy to
stand behind, otherwise we are | 3:28:33 | 3:28:39 | |
selling snake oil. Once again, we
have it from the Scottish National | 3:28:39 | 3:28:45 | |
Party. They still say you can use a
national insurance surplus. Just to | 3:28:45 | 3:28:49 | |
read a fume or written answers about
the ability to use the national | 3:28:49 | 3:28:54 | |
insurance surplus, which is their
policy of how they are going to save | 3:28:54 | 3:28:57 | |
the WASPI women. Mike O'Brien,
former minister, he said, any | 3:28:57 | 3:29:02 | |
surplus of national insurance
contributions over Social Security | 3:29:02 | 3:29:04 | |
benefits in any one year is not an
extra resource available to spend. A | 3:29:04 | 3:29:09 | |
written question from my honourable
friend, the Honourable Member for | 3:29:09 | 3:29:17 | |
East Ham responded. He said, what of
the merits of using future national | 3:29:17 | 3:29:25 | |
insurance surplus to fund the
policy? The response was, and | 3:29:25 | 3:29:28 | |
increasing the basic state pension
has a cumulative impact going | 3:29:28 | 3:29:31 | |
forward. The government consider the
short-term use of the surplus on the | 3:29:31 | 3:29:36 | |
national insurance fund to be
unsustainable in the long term. Not | 3:29:36 | 3:29:39 | |
least because it has been in and
cyclical. Any of us that say we | 3:29:39 | 3:29:45 | |
support the WASPI women, we have to
outline which line of taxation or | 3:29:45 | 3:29:50 | |
which line of expenditure in the red
book we are prepared to use to pay | 3:29:50 | 3:29:53 | |
for it. | 3:29:53 | 3:29:57 | |
The position of the SNP is partisan,
so it does the WASPI campaign no | 3:29:57 | 3:30:03 | |
favour for all that there are women
in my constituency who are | 3:30:03 | 3:30:07 | |
experiencing hardship. Does he agree
with me it would be far more | 3:30:07 | 3:30:11 | |
constructive to look at sensible
affordable measures such as early | 3:30:11 | 3:30:16 | |
draw down of bus passes that address
the genuine need that exists. Of | 3:30:16 | 3:30:21 | |
course, there are measures that we
can look at. The point I am saying | 3:30:21 | 3:30:26 | |
is unless we identify specific lines
of tax or expenditure to pay for it, | 3:30:26 | 3:30:30 | |
the money is simply being borrowed
and paided for by future generation | 3:30:30 | 3:30:36 | |
dryinged to give way. Very grateful.
I have heard that lot about how | 3:30:36 | 3:30:40 | |
nobody is coming to us with a plan
about what we can do, like I said, | 3:30:40 | 3:30:44 | |
we came up with a plan, we think we
can argue for it. If the honourable | 3:30:44 | 3:30:49 | |
member disagrees with it, come up
with a plan. We have been waiting | 3:30:49 | 3:30:55 | |
for months, years for the Government
to come forward with some kind of | 3:30:55 | 3:30:59 | |
proposal because the 2011 one
clearly isn't good enough. | 3:30:59 | 3:31:03 | |
The honourable lady is missing the
point. I am I know standing with the | 3:31:03 | 3:31:09 | |
anger, so high on my high o horse
that my ears pop, I am not doing | 3:31:09 | 3:31:13 | |
that, if you go out on a limb to
that degree, you have to have a | 3:31:13 | 3:31:18 | |
credible policy behind it, you have
to be able to say this is how we | 3:31:18 | 3:31:22 | |
will pay for it. I don't feel I
should give way again, the | 3:31:22 | 3:31:26 | |
honourable gentleman was general us
to me so I will do, there are people | 3:31:26 | 3:31:29 | |
who follow me so I will wind up
straight after. Can I point out, | 3:31:29 | 3:31:33 | |
what we have done today is put
forward a straightforward motion | 3:31:33 | 3:31:37 | |
that asks the Government to bring
forward mitigation. We gave him a | 3:31:37 | 3:31:41 | |
costed proposal last year. It was
about deferring the increase in | 3:31:41 | 3:31:47 | |
imwith's pensionable age. That is
one option, question have done the | 3:31:47 | 3:31:53 | |
work, the Government hasn't done
its. I gave way, I am going to wind | 3:31:53 | 3:31:57 | |
up. £8 billion is is a huge amount,
you have to identify a specific area | 3:31:57 | 3:32:06 | |
of taxation or expenditure, until
people are prepared to do that we | 3:32:06 | 3:32:09 | |
cannot say there is is a policy
available to fix this, we are just | 3:32:09 | 3:32:15 | |
jumping on a band wagon.
Thank you. I appreciate the SNP | 3:32:15 | 3:32:23 | |
getting this important opposition
day debate and prieshiate given | 3:32:23 | 3:32:29 | |
being given the opportunity to speak
in it. We know how much of an impact | 3:32:29 | 3:32:36 | |
it has, we know the chamber how
upsetting, frustrating and deeply | 3:32:36 | 3:32:42 | |
angry many WASPI Westminster feel.
However, one of the things I want to | 3:32:42 | 3:32:47 | |
say before asking the Government for
transition payments is we are all | 3:32:47 | 3:32:50 | |
culpable. One of the thing I found
so interesting listening to all the | 3:32:50 | 3:32:56 | |
different sides, is if there was an
element of amnesia. Every party in | 3:32:56 | 3:33:03 | |
the chamber is culpable because of
the WASPI issues and listening to | 3:33:03 | 3:33:10 | |
others it appears the SNP might be
as well. I don't know that for sure, | 3:33:10 | 3:33:15 | |
I am not a Scottish MP, but I know
the Tories in the 1995 bill, did | 3:33:15 | 3:33:22 | |
inform people right from the
beginning about what was happening, | 3:33:22 | 3:33:27 | |
I think Labour from 1999 on to 2001,
2002, 2003, didn't do the mass | 3:33:27 | 3:33:33 | |
communication that was necessary
that would have warned these people | 3:33:33 | 3:33:37 | |
what was come, and hold my hands up
as the a member of the coalition | 3:33:37 | 3:33:41 | |
Government in 2011, when we changed
the age, I don't think we really got | 3:33:41 | 3:33:46 | |
enough information out there. The
first thing I would like to say | 3:33:46 | 3:33:51 | |
despite the sturm and drang I think
we have let WASPI women down, end | 3:33:51 | 3:33:55 | |
of. The second thing I would like to
move on to, is I do feel that the | 3:33:55 | 3:34:02 | |
Government should look very
seriously at finding some | 3:34:02 | 3:34:05 | |
transitional money. Because for a
lots of these women, particularly | 3:34:05 | 3:34:08 | |
women that a number of colleagues
have made the point so well, that | 3:34:08 | 3:34:13 | |
were in menial jobs, and artisan
job, when you are getting in your | 3:34:13 | 3:34:18 | |
early 60s you are not often in the
same physical shape as someone who | 3:34:18 | 3:34:23 | |
hasn't done a back breaking job for
40 odd year, I would urge the | 3:34:23 | 3:34:28 | |
Government, they understand, I do
believe the minutesters understands | 3:34:28 | 3:34:31 | |
the strength of feeling, the
passion, the anger, the exceptional | 3:34:31 | 3:34:36 | |
frustration that so many WASPI women
feel. I will give way. | 3:34:36 | 3:34:41 | |
I am grateful for giving way. Does
he agree with me it is totally up | 3:34:41 | 3:34:46 | |
fair these women are not paid their
pension when ahave a full | 3:34:46 | 3:34:51 | |
contribution record and instead they
are being made to work beyond a time | 3:34:51 | 3:34:54 | |
when they are able, or forced to
rely on insecure benefits that are | 3:34:54 | 3:35:01 | |
too low. I than the honourable
member for her crib tiong it is an | 3:35:01 | 3:35:09 | |
important point. Many years of
correction, of a back breaking job | 3:35:09 | 3:35:13 | |
but I get back to the fact we are
all cup palable. We know that, we | 3:35:13 | 3:35:17 | |
know that in the chamber,
Conservative, Labour, coalition and | 3:35:17 | 3:35:22 | |
according to the Conservative and
Labour SNP as well. What I would do, | 3:35:22 | 3:35:29 | |
I wouldn't advocate because I would
be lying to my constituency, I | 3:35:29 | 3:35:33 | |
wouldn't advocate we are going to
take the retirement age back to 60. | 3:35:33 | 3:35:41 | |
I am going to continue. I just
think, I think if people say that to | 3:35:41 | 3:35:49 | |
their constituent, it won't cast any
slurs, I am going to finish. What I | 3:35:49 | 3:35:55 | |
will say I would ask the government
really seriously, because of the | 3:35:55 | 3:35:59 | |
impact this is having, think this is
a shocking impact in some parts of | 3:35:59 | 3:36:05 | |
the country, I believe the
Government has a duty to find some | 3:36:05 | 3:36:10 | |
additional money to assist with the
transition period. I think it's the | 3:36:10 | 3:36:14 | |
right thing do, I think it is the
honourable thing to do and I really | 3:36:14 | 3:36:18 | |
believe the Government must find
that money. I believe if they will, | 3:36:18 | 3:36:21 | |
I actually think a lot of WASPI
women, possibly through gritted | 3:36:21 | 3:36:26 | |
teeth, but I believe a lot of WASPI
women will accept that transition | 3:36:26 | 3:36:31 | |
money, and move on with this
challenging age change we are | 3:36:31 | 3:36:35 | |
dealing with. Without that, I
believe the anger will increase the | 3:36:35 | 3:36:41 | |
sense of justifiable unfairness will
increase and it will leave a real, | 3:36:41 | 3:36:46 | |
real scar for a heck of a lot of
women born in their #50s who have | 3:36:46 | 3:36:50 | |
contributed not just to the great's
of our nation, but crumb, all the | 3:36:50 | 3:36:55 | |
children and the grandchildren and
the families that have made our | 3:36:55 | 3:36:58 | |
country what it is today. So what I
would urge the minister, I would ask | 3:36:58 | 3:37:02 | |
him to go the Chancellor and say,
find an element of transition money, | 3:37:02 | 3:37:08 | |
that at least will pay and allow
some of the the -- the WASPI women | 3:37:08 | 3:37:15 | |
at least, have to the funds that
will make up for not just looking | 3:37:15 | 3:37:20 | |
the six years in cases but ending up
or ended up costing so many women so | 3:37:20 | 3:37:26 | |
much money. I would urge the
minister, find a way, find | 3:37:26 | 3:37:30 | |
transition money, make a difference,
do it now. | 3:37:30 | 3:37:35 | |
This is an important cause that
affects thousands of women on the | 3:37:35 | 3:37:39 | |
Isle of Wight. I have had the
pleasure of meeting the WASPI | 3:37:39 | 3:37:44 | |
representatives on several occasion,
I thank him for his words on the | 3:37:44 | 3:37:47 | |
issue and he knows I hold him in
height regard. Think the Government | 3:37:47 | 3:37:51 | |
has done good work in pensions that
have improved the lives of | 3:37:51 | 3:37:56 | |
pensioners. He talks about the
importance of fairness. In | 3:37:56 | 3:38:00 | |
justification of the WASPI women,
they would say that the current | 3:38:00 | 3:38:04 | |
system is not fair to them, and to
be honest it is difficult to argue | 3:38:04 | 3:38:09 | |
against that point. I have heard
many stories of hardship from WASPI | 3:38:09 | 3:38:14 | |
women on the island, many of whom
found out at a late stage in the day | 3:38:14 | 3:38:20 | |
their pensions would be negatively
affected. These are not spend thrift | 3:38:20 | 3:38:24 | |
people, they are people who have
raised families or worked hard and | 3:38:24 | 3:38:28 | |
paid into the system over many years
and it pains me to read storieses of | 3:38:28 | 3:38:35 | |
hardship from them my concern for
the Government, is that a Pensions | 3:38:35 | 3:38:40 | |
Bill may force this issue. And I do
believe that on grounds of fairness | 3:38:40 | 3:38:47 | |
and common-sense, that moving in
some way to rectify this issue now | 3:38:47 | 3:38:52 | |
would be better than being forced to
do so later in the day. So if there | 3:38:52 | 3:38:58 | |
were a way of seeking transition
payments, or a mechanism that could | 3:38:58 | 3:39:03 | |
be found to alleviate some the worst
problems faced by the WASPI women, | 3:39:03 | 3:39:09 | |
who are an admirable cause in my
opinion, the Government would get my | 3:39:09 | 3:39:12 | |
full support. I know that the right
honourable gentleman cares about | 3:39:12 | 3:39:17 | |
this issue very much. I will give
way. Thank you. Even if the | 3:39:17 | 3:39:22 | |
likelihood of the Government will
have to change position, would it | 3:39:22 | 3:39:25 | |
make sense a good Government would
make sure there is financial | 3:39:25 | 3:39:29 | |
provision being made now for that
eventuality. I am just really making | 3:39:29 | 3:39:32 | |
that point myself as well. Clearly
this is voting either way is not | 3:39:32 | 3:39:37 | |
going to change things today, but I
do hope that Government would | 3:39:37 | 3:39:41 | |
consider this in the light a
potential Pensions Bill later. Thank | 3:39:41 | 3:39:45 | |
you.
Mr Speaker. We recently heard from | 3:39:45 | 3:39:54 | |
Chancellor about how he buckled
under the lobbying pressure of 13 | 3:39:54 | 3:40:00 | |
Scottish Tory colleague, the
pressure applied supposedly made all | 3:40:00 | 3:40:04 | |
the difference in scrapping the VAT
payments for Scottish police and | 3:40:04 | 3:40:09 | |
Fire Service, perhaps the half-baked
bakers dozen could have another | 3:40:09 | 3:40:13 | |
whord in the ear of the Chancellor
and prove they understand the | 3:40:13 | 3:40:17 | |
situation, and therefore care about
the WASPI women an seek to spring | 3:40:17 | 3:40:20 | |
justice for them. If no changes are
made but the by the UK Government | 3:40:20 | 3:40:27 | |
shows the cosh Tories are not
influential or they don't care about | 3:40:27 | 3:40:31 | |
the plight of the WASPI women. The
member for Aberdeen South spoke as | 3:40:31 | 3:40:36 | |
if understand this problem but will
follow us through the lobby or is it | 3:40:36 | 3:40:42 | |
empty rhetoric. Can you imagine, can
you imagine if MPs born in the | 3:40:42 | 3:40:47 | |
50ings were not made wear of major
changes to their pensions and they | 3:40:47 | 3:40:52 | |
would not receive them until years
later. When we debated that we would | 3:40:52 | 3:40:57 | |
this House would be full to the gun,
MPs would be filling every single | 3:40:57 | 3:41:03 | |
seat and the bits in between. How
quickly does this House find a | 3:41:03 | 3:41:09 | |
remedy to that problem? That is the
benchmark that Government should be | 3:41:09 | 3:41:13 | |
judged by, on behalf of the 5700
women of Inverclyde, I want the UK | 3:41:13 | 3:41:20 | |
Government to know we will keep
bringing the debates to the house. | 3:41:20 | 3:41:23 | |
We will continue to raise issues in
the press and we will not go away | 3:41:23 | 3:41:27 | |
until there is is a resolution of
the plight from these pension | 3:41:27 | 3:41:32 | |
changes. Next week my office will
host a meeting of the WASPI group as | 3:41:32 | 3:41:37 | |
they maintain they work by
attracting new volunteers and making | 3:41:37 | 3:41:41 | |
sure they have advice and support.
The WASPI campaign is already raised | 3:41:41 | 3:41:47 | |
with 100,00 pounds to fund a
campaign, the minister must be aware | 3:41:47 | 3:41:54 | |
the WASPI campaign is two ill -- so
well funded. The WASPI campaign has | 3:41:54 | 3:42:03 | |
committed themselves. This issue is
a signal that they need to begin a | 3:42:03 | 3:42:08 | |
dialogue with the WASPI women and
they have to start it now. They are | 3:42:08 | 3:42:12 | |
being reasonable in asking for this
opportunity. There may be many small | 3:42:12 | 3:42:16 | |
steps along way to achieving a
solution, the UK Government should | 3:42:16 | 3:42:20 | |
see the sense and ta tick first step
willingly rather than being dragged | 3:42:20 | 3:42:23 | |
along by the force of public
pressure, finally, it is not too | 3:42:23 | 3:42:28 | |
late for this Government to do the
decent thing and make amend for in | 3:42:28 | 3:42:34 | |
ill advised damaging policy.
It is is a great honour to speak in | 3:42:34 | 3:42:43 | |
this debate on this important issue
on behalf of the many WASPI women of | 3:42:43 | 3:42:47 | |
Chelmsford who have been to visit
me. Especially the lovely Cheryl | 3:42:47 | 3:42:53 | |
Lucas who speaks calm and compassion
and I have deep respect for them, | 3:42:53 | 3:42:58 | |
and for the situation they find
themselves in, many of the women | 3:42:58 | 3:43:01 | |
have worked for many year, they have
pad their tax, national insurance | 3:43:01 | 3:43:05 | |
and they have told me how they
planned on the expectation they | 3:43:05 | 3:43:09 | |
would retire on a certain date, and
that date then changed. Some of them | 3:43:09 | 3:43:23 | |
retired early in the anticipation
that those knew, that... She is | 3:43:23 | 3:43:31 | |
putting the case very well. Isn't
that why it is such an insult to | 3:43:31 | 3:43:36 | |
simply suggest to these people, to
hold older women they can get an | 3:43:36 | 3:43:41 | |
apprenticeship and things will be be
fine. Let me carry on with my point. | 3:43:41 | 3:43:45 | |
I would love to help the WASPI women
of my constituency who find | 3:43:45 | 3:43:50 | |
themselveses in this situation, but
I also look at the statistics and I | 3:43:50 | 3:43:56 | |
remember looking a few years ago at
life expectancy, my mother is 30 | 3:43:56 | 3:44:02 | |
years older, my daughter is 30 years
younger. 6% of my mother's age group | 3:44:02 | 3:44:09 | |
will live to 100. My age group it is
16%. In my daughter's age group it | 3:44:09 | 3:44:15 | |
is 26%. We are living longer and we
need to work longer, and that is why | 3:44:15 | 3:44:20 | |
I believe that successive
Governments, Labour and | 3:44:20 | 3:44:23 | |
Conservative, have been right to
take measures to change the pension | 3:44:23 | 3:44:26 | |
age. But I have also thought what
more could we do to help the women | 3:44:26 | 3:44:32 | |
affected in this way, because if we
are to give them additional | 3:44:32 | 3:44:37 | |
financial benefit, or additional
taxation, what then do I say to the | 3:44:37 | 3:44:40 | |
women like myself, who were born in
the 60s. Why should a woman who is | 3:44:40 | 3:44:46 | |
born in 1959 fete an additional
benefit but not the woman born in | 3:44:46 | 3:44:49 | |
1960? What then do I say to the men,
because I championed equality all my | 3:44:49 | 3:44:54 | |
life, when the women are getting an
additional benefit but the men | 3:44:54 | 3:44:57 | |
aren't. What do I say to my
daughter's generation who are | 3:44:57 | 3:45:02 | |
struggling, where they have student
debt, struggling to get on the | 3:45:02 | 3:45:06 | |
housing ladder, they can say they
may never have anything like the | 3:45:06 | 3:45:10 | |
work based pensions we have had. | 3:45:10 | 3:45:15 | |
I know that the jobs the women had
been doing in the past, they are | 3:45:15 | 3:45:19 | |
often not jobs they continue to want
to be able to do into their 60s and | 3:45:19 | 3:45:22 | |
it may not suit them. That is why I
think it is so important that we | 3:45:22 | 3:45:28 | |
champion opportunities for some of
our older workers, for people in | 3:45:28 | 3:45:31 | |
their 50s, like myself, but also in
their 60s. And that we go out and | 3:45:31 | 3:45:37 | |
help employers to say these women
are fantastic, and our people that | 3:45:37 | 3:45:41 | |
really add value. For those that
genuinely have problems, we need to | 3:45:41 | 3:45:44 | |
be faster to get them support. I was
contacted by a WASPI woman this week | 3:45:44 | 3:45:50 | |
who has cancer and needs support. We
have to be faster in supporting | 3:45:50 | 3:45:56 | |
them. I understand why the
Government cannot write a blank | 3:45:56 | 3:45:59 | |
cheque. But let's find some support
for them. I am grateful, and it is a | 3:45:59 | 3:46:05 | |
pleasure to follow the Honourable
Member for Chelmsford. The WASPI | 3:46:05 | 3:46:09 | |
situation is a stain on the this
country. Women, who but for the | 3:46:09 | 3:46:14 | |
decisions made by others would have
never have thought of turning to | 3:46:14 | 3:46:18 | |
politics, would never have thought
to organise, to organise, shout and | 3:46:18 | 3:46:24 | |
scream, people like Ali Wallace who
are organising and seeking justice | 3:46:24 | 3:46:30 | |
for those women. There are 6000
women in my constituency and they | 3:46:30 | 3:46:35 | |
are being organised and assisted to
follow the four stage process, not | 3:46:35 | 3:46:39 | |
to seek their pension, but to seek a
review of the maladministration of | 3:46:39 | 3:46:44 | |
how the information was not given to
them. They meet in my constituency | 3:46:44 | 3:46:51 | |
office to plan how to identify the
other women in the area. I must take | 3:46:51 | 3:46:54 | |
this moment to give tribute to
George Kerrigan, my predecessor, who | 3:46:54 | 3:46:58 | |
aided and assisted the women so
eloquently. I must point out that | 3:46:58 | 3:47:04 | |
the aim of the WASPI campaign is not
about the equalisation of pension | 3:47:04 | 3:47:09 | |
ages. It is about a transitional
state pension arrangements for those | 3:47:09 | 3:47:13 | |
women born in the 1950s. They
recognise the longevity of our | 3:47:13 | 3:47:18 | |
civilisation today. But it is about
the transitional provisions. The | 3:47:18 | 3:47:26 | |
work and pensions select committee,
in March 2016, concluded it has been | 3:47:26 | 3:47:34 | |
too little, too late, for many
women, especially given the increase | 3:47:34 | 3:47:37 | |
in the state pension age. It has
been accelerated at a relatively | 3:47:37 | 3:47:40 | |
short notice. Many thousands of
women, justifiably, feel aggrieved. | 3:47:40 | 3:47:48 | |
Among the 6000 women affected in
East Lothian, those aged between 60 | 3:47:48 | 3:47:52 | |
and 62 will see their household
incomes fall and the income poverty | 3:47:52 | 3:47:56 | |
increased because of these changes.
Women that were born in the 50s have | 3:47:56 | 3:48:00 | |
paid so much into our system and
they deserve to be treated with the | 3:48:00 | 3:48:03 | |
dignity and respect. Dignity and
respect that should be extended to | 3:48:03 | 3:48:09 | |
all those nearing or receiving state
pension. Perhaps the opportunity | 3:48:09 | 3:48:13 | |
should be taken to write to the
women and point out the situation to | 3:48:13 | 3:48:17 | |
them? If the Government are unable
to offer any financial compensation, | 3:48:17 | 3:48:21 | |
at the very least point out the
maladministration steps that they | 3:48:21 | 3:48:26 | |
could potentially take so that the
Government could investigate these. | 3:48:26 | 3:48:31 | |
We stand up in this place for those
people that struggle to have a | 3:48:31 | 3:48:34 | |
voice. The WASPI women do not
struggle to have a voice, but they | 3:48:34 | 3:48:38 | |
seem to struggle for a government to
listen to them. We must honour those | 3:48:38 | 3:48:43 | |
people who have contributed so much
to our society, listen to what they | 3:48:43 | 3:48:46 | |
are asking for and give them the
respect that they so rightly | 3:48:46 | 3:48:49 | |
deserves. | 3:48:49 | 3:48:51 | |
Can I say that I welcome this
debate, and I would have welcomed | 3:48:54 | 3:49:01 | |
the opportunity to put far more
points on record, have the leader of | 3:49:01 | 3:49:05 | |
the SNP not taken almost 40 minutes
to open the remarks. This is the | 3:49:05 | 3:49:11 | |
first debate in this chamber...
Welcome I think SNP members may want | 3:49:11 | 3:49:15 | |
to hear what I am saying. This is
the first debate in this chamber | 3:49:15 | 3:49:19 | |
where I have been able to articulate
the views of WASPI women in Moray. I | 3:49:19 | 3:49:25 | |
would have appreciated more time
than we have. The debate was made | 3:49:25 | 3:49:34 | |
for the Honourable Member for
Easington, less than a month that I | 3:49:34 | 3:49:38 | |
had been elected to this space. I
haven't made a maiden speech and | 3:49:38 | 3:49:41 | |
there was a restrictive time-limit.
I didn't contributed... If the | 3:49:41 | 3:49:45 | |
member would like to intervene, I
will let him go. Having previously | 3:49:45 | 3:49:52 | |
met with WASPI women come I told
them I would not contribute to that | 3:49:52 | 3:49:56 | |
debate and they understood. The SNP
put out a press release criticising | 3:49:56 | 3:49:59 | |
me for that. The honourable lady for
Paisley said Douglas Ross must do | 3:49:59 | 3:50:03 | |
the right thing for these women,
despite these women believing that I | 3:50:03 | 3:50:06 | |
was doing the right thing for them.
The SNP press release led to | 3:50:06 | 3:50:12 | |
comments on social media that called
me an effing snake, a twerp, and a | 3:50:12 | 3:50:22 | |
disgrace to authority. -- to
humanity. The SNP have done a lot on | 3:50:22 | 3:50:29 | |
this issue. But I agree with the
Honourable Member for East Antrim, | 3:50:29 | 3:50:33 | |
saying that despite the words in
this motion, the words from the SNP | 3:50:33 | 3:50:38 | |
have not encouraged more to support
them. Madam Deputy Speaker, I | 3:50:38 | 3:50:41 | |
support the 6400 women in Moray
affected by the issue. They all | 3:50:41 | 3:50:49 | |
agree about the need to equalise
state pension age, but the biggest | 3:50:49 | 3:50:52 | |
issue for them and me was the lack
of communication, from governments | 3:50:52 | 3:50:56 | |
of all parties. It is because of
that lack of communication that I | 3:50:56 | 3:50:59 | |
signed the pledge before the
election and I support the pledge | 3:50:59 | 3:51:02 | |
just now. The very valid point by my
honourable friend for East | 3:51:02 | 3:51:09 | |
Worthington, East Worthing, said a
53% of women rely on the state | 3:51:09 | 3:51:13 | |
pension, compared to a far smaller
percentage of men. If I could offer | 3:51:13 | 3:51:21 | |
my honourable friend some
refuelling, I think the SNP would | 3:51:21 | 3:51:24 | |
benefit from this meant the very
wise words. Just because he and I | 3:51:24 | 3:51:28 | |
are of different parties, does not
mean that our commitment to the | 3:51:28 | 3:51:31 | |
cause is no less. Does he agree with
me that one suggestion that would | 3:51:31 | 3:51:34 | |
show willing, which came up in the
Budget, for the WASPI women to be | 3:51:34 | 3:51:45 | |
given bus passes, that would help
them in some way and show that there | 3:51:45 | 3:51:48 | |
is a problem that needs to be
addressed? I agree with much of what | 3:51:48 | 3:51:51 | |
he said, and with what he said in
previous debates on this issue. I | 3:51:51 | 3:51:56 | |
would like to say that there is more
to be done, there is a lot we can | 3:51:56 | 3:51:59 | |
discuss, there is a lot we can
debate. I put myself forward as a | 3:51:59 | 3:52:02 | |
member for the all-party group. I go
back to the point that I made that I | 3:52:02 | 3:52:06 | |
signed a pledge before the election
and members opposite have criticised | 3:52:06 | 3:52:09 | |
me every day since I was elected for
not honouring the pledge. In | 3:52:09 | 3:52:13 | |
conclusion, I just want to go back
to that earlier remark by the SNP. | 3:52:13 | 3:52:26 | |
Again, the right Honourable Member
for East Antrim. You can convince | 3:52:26 | 3:52:28 | |
people, not by shouting down every
time, but by trying to get them to | 3:52:28 | 3:52:31 | |
go along with you. A constituent
contacted me after the last efforts | 3:52:31 | 3:52:33 | |
by the SNP, and she said, I just
wanted to say that I am disappointed | 3:52:33 | 3:52:37 | |
at the media response to your
support of WASPI in Moray. I do hope | 3:52:37 | 3:52:42 | |
that your support continues and we
don't become victims in the | 3:52:42 | 3:52:44 | |
backlash. I believe WASPI women are
already victims, victims of | 3:52:44 | 3:52:50 | |
decisions in this Parliament from
both sides. Because they are already | 3:52:50 | 3:52:55 | |
victims, again, I will say in the
calmest possible way to the SNP, | 3:52:55 | 3:52:59 | |
despite their actions in this
debate, I do believe the wording of | 3:52:59 | 3:53:03 | |
the motion is actually sensible. If
the house divides tonight, I will be | 3:53:03 | 3:53:08 | |
joining them to support the motion.
It is a pleasure to follow the | 3:53:08 | 3:53:19 | |
Honourable Member. What I intend to
do is finish the house with just a | 3:53:19 | 3:53:23 | |
few examples of the 5500 women in my
constituency who have seen their | 3:53:23 | 3:53:32 | |
pension cut with short notice.
Perhaps they might listen to our | 3:53:32 | 3:53:36 | |
constituents and taxpayers? My first
constituent would like to remain on | 3:53:36 | 3:53:41 | |
this. She worked for 44 years and
has never been out of work. By the | 3:53:41 | 3:53:45 | |
end of 2014, she was exhausted and
decided to retire. She knew she was | 3:53:45 | 3:53:49 | |
not yet ready to receive her
increased retirement age of 62, but | 3:53:49 | 3:53:56 | |
she and her husband calculated their
finances and thought that she showed | 3:53:56 | 3:54:00 | |
and could retire at that time. She
handed in her three-month notice. It | 3:54:00 | 3:54:04 | |
was not until a financial adviser
visited her home that she found out | 3:54:04 | 3:54:08 | |
she could not retire until she was
65. By this time, someone else had | 3:54:08 | 3:54:12 | |
been offered her job and she had to
make do them all down to the lack of | 3:54:12 | 3:54:16 | |
notice. Next, Christine Rennie from
Airdrie, all of her working life she | 3:54:16 | 3:54:21 | |
expected to retire at 60. To retire
in 2015. She was given no notice | 3:54:21 | 3:54:26 | |
that it was to be extended to 2021.
She has Crohn's disease, managed by | 3:54:26 | 3:54:32 | |
injection into her stomach. It
reacts to cold weather and part of | 3:54:32 | 3:54:36 | |
her job as a classroom assistant is
playground duty. It does not take me | 3:54:36 | 3:54:40 | |
to explain the issues at stake. Like
so many other women of this era she | 3:54:40 | 3:54:45 | |
gave up work to bring up her family
and returned to part-time work with | 3:54:45 | 3:54:49 | |
no access to a private pension. She
will rely financially on her state | 3:54:49 | 3:54:53 | |
pension to retire and she needs it
now. Finally, Alan Connolly from | 3:54:53 | 3:54:58 | |
Airdrie was due to retire aged 60,
but will now have to wait until | 3:54:58 | 3:55:02 | |
2020, when she turns 66. It
highlights the communication problem | 3:55:02 | 3:55:07 | |
once again. She says she only found
out about the pension age rise with | 3:55:07 | 3:55:14 | |
the GMB magazine. If she had been
given proper notice, she would have | 3:55:14 | 3:55:19 | |
been able to find another job. The
lack of notice makes it practically | 3:55:19 | 3:55:23 | |
impossible for her to do anything
other than continuing in her | 3:55:23 | 3:55:25 | |
demanding role. The few cases I have
highlighted will not even be the | 3:55:25 | 3:55:30 | |
worst examples in Airdrie and
Shotts, never mind the worst | 3:55:30 | 3:55:32 | |
examples in the rest of the country.
They are not the worst we have heard | 3:55:32 | 3:55:35 | |
today. They are a random example of
dozens who have contacted me, and no | 3:55:35 | 3:55:40 | |
doubt will have contacted others.
Every single one of those women have | 3:55:40 | 3:55:44 | |
had their lives turned upside down
from the incompetence and | 3:55:44 | 3:55:48 | |
intransigence of successive UK
governments. In conclusion, we all | 3:55:48 | 3:55:52 | |
have ladies in our constituencies in
the 1950s that have been impacted by | 3:55:52 | 3:55:56 | |
changes to the state pension age.
What will separate us later are | 3:55:56 | 3:56:02 | |
those that will recognise, respect
and represent these ladies from | 3:56:02 | 3:56:04 | |
those that will choose to try to
ignore them once again. I know where | 3:56:04 | 3:56:08 | |
I will be and that will be in the
lobby, back to my WASPI women. It is | 3:56:08 | 3:56:16 | |
a pleasure to follow members and to
speak in this debate. Because time | 3:56:16 | 3:56:20 | |
is short I am going to focus on a
few key issues. I cannot support the | 3:56:20 | 3:56:26 | |
motion put before the house today,
for a few critical reasons. The | 3:56:26 | 3:56:31 | |
first is that I think the SNP have
not clarified their own domestic | 3:56:31 | 3:56:35 | |
position adequately to this house.
We have heard that there have been | 3:56:35 | 3:56:42 | |
many debates. The minister himself
has clarified that there are powers | 3:56:42 | 3:56:46 | |
in the Scotland act passed by this
house. I do ask him to consider why | 3:56:46 | 3:56:50 | |
they have not addressed that
themselves in Scotland. I wonder if | 3:56:50 | 3:56:59 | |
it is because they are facing
declining popularity in the people | 3:56:59 | 3:57:01 | |
of Scotland, as reflected by seeing
more colleagues on our side, on | 3:57:01 | 3:57:08 | |
these benches. We have all met WASPI
women in our constituencies. I have | 3:57:08 | 3:57:13 | |
spoken to women who have been
affected by this. I am very aware | 3:57:13 | 3:57:18 | |
that women have been working since
they were 14 or 15, working very | 3:57:18 | 3:57:22 | |
hard. These are ladies that have
borne the brunt of caring | 3:57:22 | 3:57:26 | |
responsibilities often. They brought
up families. They have definitely | 3:57:26 | 3:57:29 | |
felt that sense of injustice. At the
same time, there have been claims | 3:57:29 | 3:57:33 | |
made by members opposite... I will
take one intervention. Thank you for | 3:57:33 | 3:57:39 | |
giving way. Surely this is about
justice, it is about doing the right | 3:57:39 | 3:57:45 | |
thing for WASPI women and it is
about joining us on these benches. | 3:57:45 | 3:57:48 | |
The 31 conservatives that claim,
rightly so, to be supporting the | 3:57:48 | 3:57:56 | |
WASPI women, to join us and have
some justice and some proper | 3:57:56 | 3:58:00 | |
transitional arrangements. I thank
him for his intervention, but the | 3:58:00 | 3:58:03 | |
basis of the claim on this debate on
the motion is that nothing has been | 3:58:03 | 3:58:06 | |
done. That is simply not the case.
There has been more than £1 billion | 3:58:06 | 3:58:11 | |
already allocated by this Government
to help women. We have heard this | 3:58:11 | 3:58:15 | |
morning from the first secretary
that the pension age will be | 3:58:15 | 3:58:18 | |
equalised by next year. So, while I
accept that there are women that | 3:58:18 | 3:58:22 | |
feel that sense of injustice, this
is not the way to deal with that. | 3:58:22 | 3:58:26 | |
Let's instead look at what this
Government has done to improve the | 3:58:26 | 3:58:30 | |
lives of older people up and down
this country, including in Scotland. | 3:58:30 | 3:58:34 | |
The investment in the NHS, we see
people receiving better health care, | 3:58:34 | 3:58:38 | |
enabling them to lead fuller, active
lives. That means participating in | 3:58:38 | 3:58:42 | |
the workforce for longer. I was very
surprised to hear that it might be | 3:58:42 | 3:58:48 | |
an insult for a woman aged 65 to be
offered an apprenticeship. I know | 3:58:48 | 3:58:53 | |
women that are 65 who find that a
great opportunity. Why write off | 3:58:53 | 3:58:59 | |
women just because they are 65? It
doesn't apply to all women. Nobody | 3:58:59 | 3:59:04 | |
is saying it does. What we are
saying is that when there is | 3:59:04 | 3:59:08 | |
research that shows when women have
taken up those opportunities at the | 3:59:08 | 3:59:14 | |
age of 65, they report increased
satisfaction. We all know that | 3:59:14 | 3:59:19 | |
participating in the workforce is
one of the best ways to increase | 3:59:19 | 3:59:23 | |
mental health and a whole range of
other outcomes. I do reject the | 3:59:23 | 3:59:28 | |
suggestion it is insulting. On this
side of the house, we like to think | 3:59:28 | 3:59:31 | |
about how we create more
opportunities for our people to | 3:59:31 | 3:59:36 | |
participate and live fuller lives at
all stages of their life. And I | 3:59:36 | 3:59:40 | |
think it is incumbent on members
across this house to recognise that | 3:59:40 | 3:59:43 | |
and to support it. I think we need
to look at some of the statistics | 3:59:43 | 3:59:49 | |
that have been claimed by members on
the opposite side. I don't recognise | 3:59:49 | 3:59:52 | |
some of the statistics from the
briefings I have read about the | 3:59:52 | 3:59:56 | |
maladministration and the Minister
has confirmed that. I think we need | 3:59:56 | 3:59:59 | |
to be honest about the communication
programme and the fact that women | 3:59:59 | 4:00:03 | |
have been able to plan for their
retirement. | 4:00:03 | 4:00:07 | |
I would make the very clear point
there has been no suggestion this is | 4:00:07 | 4:00:11 | |
the crux of my argument, there is no
suggestion here that this proposal | 4:00:11 | 4:00:15 | |
is costed. I dispute the figure they
have put forward. I need to finish. | 4:00:15 | 4:00:23 | |
The independent research shows that,
independent research... Point of | 4:00:23 | 4:00:29 | |
order.
This is important, because it has | 4:00:29 | 4:00:33 | |
been pointed out early in this
debate the report was published by | 4:00:33 | 4:00:37 | |
the SNP last year, fully costed so
the honourable lady has made either | 4:00:37 | 4:00:42 | |
by say it hasn't been costed has
been exactly costed and she should | 4:00:42 | 4:00:47 | |
recognise that. This is not a point
of order, it is a point of debate | 4:00:47 | 4:00:52 | |
and it reduces the time for other
people to speak. | 4:00:52 | 4:00:56 | |
Thank you. There has been research
that suggests its might cost 36 | 4:00:56 | 4:01:03 | |
billion to implement these
proposals. When I speak to WASPI | 4:01:03 | 4:01:07 | |
women in Redditch. Let us not spend
money helping your children and | 4:01:07 | 4:01:11 | |
grandchildren... Order, order.
Christine Jardine. | 4:01:11 | 4:01:17 | |
Thank you. It strikes me some of us
in this House might do well to | 4:01:17 | 4:01:23 | |
remember that when we retire, it
might be a decision made the | 4:01:23 | 4:01:28 | |
electorate, an electorate that have
every right to expect to know when | 4:01:28 | 4:01:31 | |
they can retire and they would, were
it not nor the way in which this | 4:01:31 | 4:01:36 | |
House passed legislation in 1995 and
2011, which changed the state | 4:01:36 | 4:01:39 | |
pension age for women born in the
'50s and failed to commune Kay Kate | 4:01:39 | 4:01:44 | |
it effectively. Women like my
constituent who came to me to tell | 4:01:44 | 4:01:47 | |
me that although she had planned for
a a retirement for almost 30 years | 4:01:47 | 4:01:52 | |
she found herself having to do two
part-time job just to remain | 4:01:52 | 4:01:56 | |
solvent. A woman who had worked all
her life. Paid National Insurance, | 4:01:56 | 4:02:02 | |
saved for her retirement and now
works as a cleaner and suffers as a | 4:02:02 | 4:02:06 | |
result from arthritis, it makes her
life today very different where the | 4:02:06 | 4:02:10 | |
one he is an tips pated that she
finds herself in this situation. It | 4:02:10 | 4:02:14 | |
is not her fault but the
mismanagement of the Government. | 4:02:14 | 4:02:18 | |
This woman was offered voluntary
redundancy a couple of years before | 4:02:18 | 4:02:23 | |
her anticipated retirement age. She
calculated she could use it to see | 4:02:23 | 4:02:28 | |
her through as well as her savings.
Then she discovered have had the | 4:02:28 | 4:02:35 | |
best part of a decade to wait now
she has used up that money, her | 4:02:35 | 4:02:40 | |
savings have been witled away and
she has those two jobs and she is | 4:02:40 | 4:02:43 | |
not alone in this. 6,000 women in my
constituency of Edinburgh West alone | 4:02:43 | 4:02:49 | |
have been affected. Almost 3 million
women across the country are drawn | 4:02:49 | 4:02:55 | |
into this unjust pension trap. Our
constituents, our friends in some | 4:02:55 | 4:03:00 | |
cases and members of our family.
Pushed into hardship, even poverty | 4:03:00 | 4:03:04 | |
after a lifetime Orr of work. What
is most galling is the women who | 4:03:04 | 4:03:09 | |
come to me like so many others have
no quibble with the need to change | 4:03:09 | 4:03:13 | |
the pension age to equalise it with
men. It was as has been said already | 4:03:13 | 4:03:19 | |
how it was done that is the issue.
What has been created as a situation | 4:03:19 | 4:03:25 | |
where women born in the '50s who for
the most part worked all their a | 4:03:25 | 4:03:29 | |
dull live, paid that insurance and
tax planned for the retirement paid | 4:03:29 | 4:03:35 | |
for our education and our National
Health Service are now asked to | 4:03:35 | 4:03:38 | |
wait. During the general election,
an elderly member of the audience, | 4:03:38 | 4:03:43 | |
thank you, said to me they felt they
were being punished by the | 4:03:43 | 4:03:48 | |
Conservative Government for growing
old. It is difficult today not to | 4:03:48 | 4:03:51 | |
agree with them. One thing in this
debate which is disappointed me is | 4:03:51 | 4:03:56 | |
political point scoring from one
side of the House to the other. I | 4:03:56 | 4:04:00 | |
think perhaps we should... I think
perhaps is more important we all | 4:04:00 | 4:04:05 | |
rise above it, and work do something
to diverse this monstrous injustice | 4:04:05 | 4:04:10 | |
or the electorate may well offer us
all early retirement. | 4:04:10 | 4:04:15 | |
Thank you.
I would like to congratulate the SNP | 4:04:15 | 4:04:21 | |
on choosing this topic for their
opposition day. It is one which I | 4:04:21 | 4:04:26 | |
along with many other members too
many to pension but I particularly | 4:04:26 | 4:04:30 | |
want to member the mention for east
WTOing for the sterling work he has | 4:04:30 | 4:04:35 | |
done, the member for Paisley and
Renfrewshire South, Ogmore in | 4:04:35 | 4:04:39 | |
Swansea East who have raised this
issue, time and time again, and have | 4:04:39 | 4:04:45 | |
worked hard to encourage members
from all sides of the House to speak | 4:04:45 | 4:04:50 | |
in the backbench debate. I agree we
the member for Moray, that I think | 4:04:50 | 4:04:57 | |
the motion has been carefully
crafted, to allow anyone to support | 4:04:57 | 4:05:01 | |
it. Conservatives, members of the
Government party and members of the | 4:05:01 | 4:05:05 | |
opposition. So I urge them to do so.
If it isn't resolved. If the | 4:05:05 | 4:05:11 | |
Government don't take the
opportunity I want to remind them we | 4:05:11 | 4:05:18 | |
will have a big debate in December
and I encourage all members to come | 4:05:18 | 4:05:22 | |
along, don't think you will get off
the hook f this new session of | 4:05:22 | 4:05:27 | |
Parliament has taught us anything,
it that the party opposite have been | 4:05:27 | 4:05:30 | |
on more than one occasion prepared
to cover up they eyes and ears and | 4:05:30 | 4:05:36 | |
pretend its suffering isn't
happening, on Universal Credit, ESA, | 4:05:36 | 4:05:40 | |
on PIP on food banks and now on
WASPI. So while I have the intent, | 4:05:40 | 4:05:45 | |
why I have their attention for a
very brief period I want to tell | 4:05:45 | 4:05:49 | |
them some of the reason, I will give
way. I thank him for giving way. | 4:05:49 | 4:05:55 | |
Would he agree with me that 5.5
women in Hartlepool have been | 4:05:55 | 4:06:00 | |
victimised by the DWP and the
consequences are devastating. | 4:06:00 | 4:06:05 | |
Robbing them of happy retirement
they deserve and instead forcing | 4:06:05 | 4:06:10 | |
them into food banks and a
dysfunctional benefit system. | 4:06:10 | 4:06:13 | |
Absolutely. Absolutely. It is
something that affected every | 4:06:13 | 4:06:17 | |
member. Weapon often bring up things
that only affect the north, Wales... | 4:06:17 | 4:06:25 | |
I really shouldn't because of the
time, I do apologise. | 4:06:25 | 4:06:32 | |
The Deputy Speaker is going to
admonish me. So over the last few | 4:06:32 | 4:06:41 | |
months, I have tabled EDN63. It has
been signed by 197 members of this | 4:06:41 | 4:06:48 | |
House. There was a petition by over
100,000 people, 107,000 I | 4:06:48 | 4:06:55 | |
understand, that has led to the
granting of the debate next week, if | 4:06:55 | 4:06:58 | |
that is necessary, if the minister
is not going to concede the point | 4:06:58 | 4:07:02 | |
tonight. Can I remind the minister
it has been signed by members for | 4:07:02 | 4:07:08 | |
every party, from every nation and
every region in the UK. Daily I | 4:07:08 | 4:07:14 | |
receive completely heartbreaking
letters and e-mails, many who have | 4:07:14 | 4:07:21 | |
worked from 16 and paid National
Insurance contributions and deal | 4:07:21 | 4:07:28 | |
they signed with the Government has
been ripped up there. There a | 4:07:28 | 4:07:32 | |
contract and moral obligation on
Government I believe. It has created | 4:07:32 | 4:07:36 | |
an unnecessary situation, a
generation of women many of whom are | 4:07:36 | 4:07:39 | |
having to rely on food banks,
selling their homes, being forced to | 4:07:39 | 4:07:46 | |
rely on the benefits system. Madam
Deputy Speaker it is degrading | 4:07:46 | 4:07:50 | |
unfair and unnecessary. These women
have been failed by consecutive | 4:07:50 | 4:07:55 | |
Governments no doubt. Failings which
have led many women, who I have | 4:07:55 | 4:07:59 | |
known for year, because live in the
constituency I represent, into | 4:07:59 | 4:08:03 | |
poverty and forced to rely on food
banks and support from friends and | 4:08:03 | 4:08:07 | |
relatives. I am convinced about the
sincerity of their campaign and many | 4:08:07 | 4:08:14 | |
knew nothing about this because of
the lack of notification. I urge the | 4:08:14 | 4:08:18 | |
Government immediately to
acknowledge their error, provide all | 4:08:18 | 4:08:21 | |
of those affected with some level of
compensation, and provide those | 4:08:21 | 4:08:26 | |
worst affected, those who have been
waiting six years or longer than | 4:08:26 | 4:08:30 | |
they planned to receive their
pension with some support through a | 4:08:30 | 4:08:34 | |
bridging pension. I would like to
thank the WASPI women for their | 4:08:34 | 4:08:38 | |
support, in racing this issue.
First of all, can just say that I | 4:08:38 | 4:08:46 | |
feel many of the WASPI women
watching this, today, may feel | 4:08:46 | 4:08:51 | |
disappointed that instead of having
a debate where we could have tried | 4:08:51 | 4:08:55 | |
to build some consensus, we have had
finger pointing, we have had pont | 4:08:55 | 4:09:04 | |
use Pilate strike, hand washing and
rancour, I think it is important | 4:09:04 | 4:09:08 | |
that for many of those and certainly
for the one its have spoken to, this | 4:09:08 | 4:09:12 | |
is not a party political issue, this
is is a personal issue, one which | 4:09:12 | 4:09:18 | |
has affected their day-to-day lives
and what they want to see the kind | 4:09:18 | 4:09:23 | |
of collective attention from
Parliament. I do make the exception | 4:09:23 | 4:09:26 | |
because I think the member from
Eastbourne was very honest in the | 4:09:26 | 4:09:31 | |
way in which he accepted that all
administrations played a part in the | 4:09:31 | 4:09:37 | |
situation we have. Have. We are
going to give support to this motion | 4:09:37 | 4:09:41 | |
tonight, for a number of reasons.
And the first reason is this. That | 4:09:41 | 4:09:46 | |
it is quite clear even from the
Government's success, Government's | 4:09:46 | 4:09:51 | |
own admission and from the
Department of Pension, Work and | 4:09:51 | 4:09:57 | |
Pensions own actions that not
adequate notice was given to people, | 4:09:57 | 4:10:01 | |
the Pensions Commission said for
such a big change, there should be | 4:10:01 | 4:10:06 | |
15 years advance warning. Some
people had less than five year, the | 4:10:06 | 4:10:13 | |
Department for Work and Pensions...
4,000 women have an issue with their | 4:10:13 | 4:10:21 | |
state pension going up but weren't
given enough notice. Isn't that | 4:10:21 | 4:10:27 | |
question about how Government
communicates with people. He makes | 4:10:27 | 4:10:36 | |
an important point. The Department
for Work and Pensions in its own | 4:10:36 | 4:10:39 | |
research found that especially in
the lower income groups two thirds | 4:10:39 | 4:10:43 | |
of which were not aware of the
changes, and of course, the very | 4:10:43 | 4:10:47 | |
fact that the practice was changed,
to writing out individually after | 4:10:47 | 4:10:54 | |
2011, as an indication the
Department for Work and Pensions -- | 4:10:54 | 4:11:02 | |
that is the first reason, the second
reason is that these changes have | 4:11:02 | 4:11:06 | |
hurt those people who are in the
lower income brackets, and again, if | 4:11:06 | 4:11:13 | |
we look at the hardship that has
been caused, the research shows that | 4:11:13 | 4:11:18 | |
people who are on lower income, have
had five times the impact on their | 4:11:18 | 4:11:27 | |
income than people on hiring income,
there are is an issue not only of | 4:11:27 | 4:11:33 | |
communication here but of fareness,
which has to be dealt with. Poverty | 4:11:33 | 4:11:39 | |
among 62, 64-year-olds has gone up
by 6.2% as a result of the impact of | 4:11:39 | 4:11:46 | |
the changes to date. The third
reason we support this motion and | 4:11:46 | 4:11:52 | |
though it has been said there is not
specific. Think it probably at this | 4:11:52 | 4:11:56 | |
stage, it is right it is not
specific, because the, there are a | 4:11:56 | 4:12:03 | |
range of remedies, which could be be
introduced to deal with this. I | 4:12:03 | 4:12:06 | |
accept that not all of those
remedies and indeed for some people | 4:12:06 | 4:12:11 | |
none of those remedies is going to
please them, but given, I want to be | 4:12:11 | 4:12:18 | |
responsible. I ups we can't simply
rewrite pensioned history and say | 4:12:18 | 4:12:24 | |
let us undo all that has been done.
It is too costly, there are a range | 4:12:24 | 4:12:28 | |
of issues and even within the
financial constraints that the | 4:12:28 | 4:12:32 | |
Government faces at present, this
motion gives the opportunity to come | 4:12:32 | 4:12:38 | |
back, with idea, they can be be
knocked down, they can be debated. | 4:12:38 | 4:12:42 | |
We can see what impact they have.
See if they target the people most | 4:12:42 | 4:12:46 | |
badly hit. At least let us have some
recognition there is a problem | 4:12:46 | 4:12:55 | |
caused by bad communication, that
hits certain people coming to the | 4:12:55 | 4:12:58 | |
end of their working lives and let
us few and they a way of the dealing | 4:12:58 | 4:13:02 | |
with it.
And let us find a way of dealing | 4:13:02 | 4:13:07 | |
with it. I have no wish to be
disrespectful to anybody in this | 4:13:07 | 4:13:11 | |
House. Some of the comments have
heard from this side have been | 4:13:11 | 4:13:16 | |
unmitigated piles of mince. The
injustice has been visited on women | 4:13:16 | 4:13:22 | |
born in the '50s has been well
documented and is widely accepted by | 4:13:22 | 4:13:27 | |
most people, except by the
Conservatives on the other side of | 4:13:27 | 4:13:31 | |
this House, who continue to either
tell these women they can seek | 4:13:31 | 4:13:34 | |
apprenticeships and we heard that
again today, justified by the | 4:13:34 | 4:13:39 | |
honourable lady opposite who isn't
in the slightest bit embarrassed by | 4:13:39 | 4:13:44 | |
her comments and bus pass, drawing
down early bus pass, you couldn't | 4:13:44 | 4:13:47 | |
make it up. If you a WASPI woman and
suffering hardship, right now, don't | 4:13:47 | 4:13:52 | |
boarry about it because do o you
know what you will live longer a you | 4:13:52 | 4:13:57 | |
might enget a telegraph from the
Queen. Don't worry if you are short | 4:13:57 | 4:14:03 | |
of monetary policy, you can't pate
pay the rent f you hang on long | 4:14:03 | 4:14:08 | |
enough the Queen might send you a
quay card. | 4:14:08 | 4:14:13 | |
Nobody doubts that people are living
longer. That is not the issue at | 4:14:13 | 4:14:20 | |
hand. The issue at hand is the
poverty women are living in because | 4:14:20 | 4:14:26 | |
this Government did not give them
sufficient notice to make | 4:14:26 | 4:14:28 | |
alternative plans. That is what this
debate is about. Don't come to this | 4:14:28 | 4:14:34 | |
chamber and talk about
apprenticeships, and don't talk | 4:14:34 | 4:14:36 | |
about how we are all living longer.
That has nothing to do with what | 4:14:36 | 4:14:40 | |
this debate is about today. To add
insult to injury, new FOIA figures | 4:14:40 | 4:14:46 | |
reveal that the DWP has received
thousands of complaints relating to | 4:14:46 | 4:14:51 | |
the WASPI campaign, but only six
investigations have been seen | 4:14:51 | 4:14:55 | |
through to completion. Despite this
so-called dedicated complaints team, | 4:14:55 | 4:14:59 | |
thousands of women have been let
down, robbed of their pension, with | 4:14:59 | 4:15:02 | |
questions unanswered. What about the
Prime Minister's voucher vow to | 4:15:02 | 4:15:11 | |
tackle burning injustice? I am still
waiting for that. Where are the Tory | 4:15:11 | 4:15:18 | |
MPs from Scotland, there was that
pledged support to the WASPI women | 4:15:18 | 4:15:22 | |
and who will today stand up and give
those WASPI women tea and sympathy | 4:15:22 | 4:15:28 | |
and then abstain in that vote? You
are a disgrace! Hang your head in | 4:15:28 | 4:15:33 | |
shame! It is time this burning
injustice was addressed. It is time | 4:15:33 | 4:15:37 | |
for the Government to stop throwing
these women a deaf ear. Take off | 4:15:37 | 4:15:45 | |
your brass neck and do the right
thing. It is time to get WASPI women | 4:15:45 | 4:15:50 | |
the justice they deserve. Thank you
very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. I | 4:15:50 | 4:15:54 | |
thought I had never heard the likes
of it, but I have. The idea that a | 4:15:54 | 4:15:58 | |
solution, as members have said, that
you would draw down your bus pass, | 4:15:58 | 4:16:01 | |
or somehow it is not offensive, I
look at the Honourable Member, it is | 4:16:01 | 4:16:05 | |
not offensive to offer a woman at 65
an apprenticeship is completely out | 4:16:05 | 4:16:14 | |
of touch with this nation. I am
offended on behalf of those women. I | 4:16:14 | 4:16:16 | |
have to say that I want to challenge
the premise that everybody is living | 4:16:16 | 4:16:20 | |
longer. I want to ask, are the
poorest in this nation living | 4:16:20 | 4:16:24 | |
longer? I also challenge that just
because you live longer you should | 4:16:24 | 4:16:28 | |
work longer, not actually live
longer after your working life. 5000 | 4:16:28 | 4:16:34 | |
women in my constituency are
affected by this pension increase. | 4:16:34 | 4:16:40 | |
The woeful, inadequate note they
received for that change. I met | 4:16:40 | 4:16:44 | |
those women during the general
election, as did other members, and | 4:16:44 | 4:16:46 | |
they made a massive impression on
me. 190 members in this house have | 4:16:46 | 4:16:51 | |
said they would support the WASPI
women. I hope this was not just an | 4:16:51 | 4:16:57 | |
election gimmick. I look to the
Scottish Conservatives. Anybody that | 4:16:57 | 4:17:00 | |
supported them now has to keep their
contract with those women indeed, | 4:17:00 | 4:17:03 | |
not just words. WICB whip has just
done the rounds on the Tories, I | 4:17:03 | 4:17:11 | |
hope that is not putting pressure on
them. My own mother, born in 1953, | 4:17:11 | 4:17:16 | |
she started work at 13, with 447
years and thought she would get her | 4:17:16 | 4:17:20 | |
pension at age 60. She is actually
getting it aged 65 and two. To this | 4:17:20 | 4:17:27 | |
day, she has not received any
notification from the Department for | 4:17:27 | 4:17:32 | |
Work and Pensions, along with
thousands of other women. I can | 4:17:32 | 4:17:34 | |
guarantee you this, if the women
polled the state any money, if there | 4:17:34 | 4:17:39 | |
was any unpaid tax from those women,
any bill they had not paid, the | 4:17:39 | 4:17:43 | |
Government would be on their backs.
They would be tenacious in the | 4:17:43 | 4:17:47 | |
recovery of that debt and the
communication would be thick and | 4:17:47 | 4:17:50 | |
fast. To witness the disappointment
in those women is heartbreaking. | 4:17:50 | 4:17:54 | |
Women that could not have worked any
harder all of their life being made | 4:17:54 | 4:18:00 | |
dependent at an older age. How
degrading is that? The exponential | 4:18:00 | 4:18:03 | |
increase in claimants are telling.
In the Universal Credit debate, I | 4:18:03 | 4:18:12 | |
heard argue it's about how the
system teaches lessons with monthly | 4:18:12 | 4:18:16 | |
payments, an argument that I with --
reject. The Government has | 4:18:16 | 4:18:25 | |
absolutely failed. For these women
that have not had adequate time to | 4:18:25 | 4:18:29 | |
prepare, he did not have adequate
correspondence from the DWP, at no | 4:18:29 | 4:18:35 | |
fault at all, the right thing is to
compensate them and have a bridging | 4:18:35 | 4:18:39 | |
pension. The 1950s women will not
give up, they will not go away and | 4:18:39 | 4:18:42 | |
they will not forgive this
government if their demands are not | 4:18:42 | 4:18:45 | |
met. They don't need apprenticeships
or platitudes, but pension justice | 4:18:45 | 4:18:49 | |
now. Let's have a vote and see who's
side are these people are really on. | 4:18:49 | 4:18:54 | |
Thank you for letting me in. I
arrived in June of this year, | 4:18:54 | 4:19:01 | |
November 21. The state pension age,
I was grateful for the many calls on | 4:19:01 | 4:19:07 | |
the side of the house for speaking
up for women in the area and across | 4:19:07 | 4:19:13 | |
the country. I was even more
grateful for the amount of WASPI | 4:19:13 | 4:19:16 | |
women that turned up that day in
Westminster Hall and saw the people | 4:19:16 | 4:19:19 | |
that did speak. Sadly, nobody from
the other side turned up and talked | 4:19:19 | 4:19:24 | |
properly on the debate, apart from
with interventions. Thanks for the | 4:19:24 | 4:19:29 | |
short time I've got. Even Big Ben
suffers from old age. One day, it | 4:19:29 | 4:19:39 | |
will be their turn to retire. As we
look back, will we wonder, if only I | 4:19:39 | 4:19:45 | |
had listened? If only I had cared?
If only I could turn back time? If | 4:19:45 | 4:19:50 | |
you cannot listen to me, listen to
the WASPI women. You have all had | 4:19:50 | 4:19:58 | |
plenty of letters, e-mails, Twitter,
Facebook, your own constituents, | 4:19:58 | 4:20:01 | |
your own voters, the people that
send you here, listen and speak up | 4:20:01 | 4:20:11 | |
for them. I am committed to fighting
for a better deal for the WASPI | 4:20:11 | 4:20:14 | |
women, not just in Coatbridge,
Christ and an Bellshill, but across | 4:20:14 | 4:20:19 | |
the whole of the UK. It is time for
the WASPI women. I can start by | 4:20:19 | 4:20:32 | |
saying that I honestly don't think
Scotland has ever been talked about | 4:20:32 | 4:20:34 | |
as much in this chamber is this
debate. But I think it is worth | 4:20:34 | 4:20:38 | |
reminding everybody that this is a
UK wide problem, created by | 4:20:38 | 4:20:43 | |
consecutive UK governments. I know
that the job of summing up is to sum | 4:20:43 | 4:20:48 | |
up the debate, but I wanted to find
their way of doing it without | 4:20:48 | 4:20:52 | |
swearing, if I am really honest. I
just want to start with the Scottish | 4:20:52 | 4:20:57 | |
Conservatives, in the first
instance. My Honourable Member said | 4:20:57 | 4:21:02 | |
they had a brass neck. I have to
say, I am happy to supply the | 4:21:02 | 4:21:16 | |
Brasso. How shiny it is, the amount
of rubbish spoken by those members | 4:21:16 | 4:21:18 | |
is appalling. I want to apologise if
any of my comments in that press | 4:21:18 | 4:21:27 | |
release, he feels, drew unjust
criticism to him. However, my | 4:21:27 | 4:21:31 | |
criticism is a legitimate one. He
expresses annoyance at not being | 4:21:31 | 4:21:36 | |
listened to. Well, this is the 12th
time that we have had to debate this | 4:21:36 | 4:21:40 | |
since I have been elected. I tell
you, if there is any disrespect | 4:21:40 | 4:21:44 | |
being shown, it is from the
Conservatives who have refused to | 4:21:44 | 4:21:48 | |
listen, time and time again. I am
grateful to the honourable lady for | 4:21:48 | 4:21:54 | |
giving way. She listened to my
speech in which I said it wasn't | 4:21:54 | 4:21:58 | |
just myself criticising the attitude
of the SNP, it was WASPI women in | 4:21:58 | 4:22:03 | |
Moray, writing to me concerned about
the attitudes of members of these | 4:22:03 | 4:22:05 | |
benches, which turns this into an
issue not to try to get support from | 4:22:05 | 4:22:09 | |
across the aisles, but simpler to
score political points. That is not | 4:22:09 | 4:22:12 | |
going to achieve the right results
for the WASPI women. Right, I'm | 4:22:12 | 4:22:18 | |
going to go over a view of the
points again, just to get this | 4:22:18 | 4:22:21 | |
across. 1995, the government not go
did not write to anybody to let them | 4:22:21 | 4:22:25 | |
know there are going to have an
extra 15 or ten years added onto | 4:22:25 | 4:22:29 | |
their pension. Hold on, I'm getting
there. Then the government says they | 4:22:29 | 4:22:38 | |
are going to make a timetable much
quicker, bearing in mind no letters | 4:22:38 | 4:22:44 | |
were sent out until 14 years after
the changes were implemented. The | 4:22:44 | 4:22:49 | |
Conservative Government, and, to be
fair, consecutive Labour governments | 4:22:49 | 4:22:52 | |
didn't pick up on it. Here we are
now. Since I have been elected, 12 | 4:22:52 | 4:22:56 | |
times we have debated this. On every
single occasion the Government has | 4:22:56 | 4:23:02 | |
abstained. I would like the
Honourable Member to tell me what he | 4:23:02 | 4:23:04 | |
thinks I should have done that I've
not done yet. Can he? Go on! If you | 4:23:04 | 4:23:11 | |
would like me to tell you what you
should do, and my intervention from | 4:23:11 | 4:23:14 | |
earlier. The Honourable Member is a
pleasure to talk to, but I'm going | 4:23:14 | 4:23:23 | |
to move on. This motion that was
deliberately written to make sure it | 4:23:23 | 4:23:28 | |
was not party political, I can hear
the laughter coming from that side, | 4:23:28 | 4:23:34 | |
if you want to tell me what is
funny, I suggest an intervention. | 4:23:34 | 4:23:39 | |
The honourable lady has written a
motion, so it is not party | 4:23:39 | 4:23:43 | |
political. The diatribe we have
heard today from the benches | 4:23:43 | 4:23:45 | |
opposite has been nothing but narrow
party political point scoring that | 4:23:45 | 4:23:51 | |
has achieved nothing for WASPI,
nothing for those affected and only | 4:23:51 | 4:23:54 | |
for the interests of the SNP. They
deserve better! This house calls on | 4:23:54 | 4:24:00 | |
the government to improve
transitional arrangements for women | 4:24:00 | 4:24:05 | |
born on or after the 6th of April
1951, who had been adversely | 4:24:05 | 4:24:09 | |
affected by the acceleration of the
increase to the state pension age. | 4:24:09 | 4:24:12 | |
What part of that canny Honourable
Member no get on board with? | 4:24:12 | 4:24:19 | |
Its rich of the Honourable Member to
talk about the attitudes for this | 4:24:19 | 4:24:23 | |
benches, considering some of the
guff that has been coming from those | 4:24:23 | 4:24:27 | |
benches. When we come to the house
with a nonpolitical amendment, a | 4:24:27 | 4:24:37 | |
nonpolitical motion, sorry, I
suggest you listen as well, we have | 4:24:37 | 4:24:44 | |
had more excuses, more of the same,
which everybody has covered. These | 4:24:44 | 4:24:49 | |
are women that are guilty of nothing
other than when they were born! And | 4:24:49 | 4:24:54 | |
it is only women that are affected
by this. We keep hearing about | 4:24:54 | 4:24:58 | |
equalisation, it is a strange
definition of equality when it is | 4:24:58 | 4:25:03 | |
only women getting targeted, and
they have been told they are going | 4:25:03 | 4:25:05 | |
to be left destitute. Now we are
told we have apprenticeships, if | 4:25:05 | 4:25:12 | |
anybody can't see the problem with
suggesting that 65-year-olds start a | 4:25:12 | 4:25:17 | |
new career and a new pension pot,
I'm sorry, I don't know who you are | 4:25:17 | 4:25:21 | |
talking to. It's an opportunity for
people. But it shouldn't be what | 4:25:21 | 4:25:31 | |
people are forced into. A better
idea is to pay them the pension. Pay | 4:25:31 | 4:25:41 | |
them the pension. In conclusion, I
have to express some frustration at | 4:25:41 | 4:25:46 | |
the Labour Party here. I'm being
very gentle, hire -- I appreciate we | 4:25:46 | 4:25:52 | |
are on board. The problem is the
constitutional question. Three years | 4:25:52 | 4:25:59 | |
ago we were told that we were better
together. The strong shoulders of | 4:25:59 | 4:26:04 | |
the United Kingdom. Vote no to save
your pension. It has been three | 4:26:04 | 4:26:08 | |
years. If we are better together,
prove it! | 4:26:08 | 4:26:11 | |
I would like to start by thanking
everybody that has contributed to | 4:26:16 | 4:26:20 | |
today's debate on this really
important issue. Members from across | 4:26:20 | 4:26:24 | |
the house. As we have seen, they
have made very passionate and | 4:26:24 | 4:26:30 | |
heartfelt speeches and interventions
throughout this debate. A welfare | 4:26:30 | 4:26:35 | |
and in system is only successful as
long as it is sustainable. As the | 4:26:35 | 4:26:40 | |
population balance shifts from
working age pension contributors to | 4:26:40 | 4:26:43 | |
those aged over 65, an increase in
the state pension age is necessary | 4:26:43 | 4:26:49 | |
for the welfare of all. As the
honourable gentleman from Eastbourne | 4:26:49 | 4:26:53 | |
pointed out, virtually every party
in this house today has had the | 4:26:53 | 4:26:58 | |
opportunity to raise it and has
taken the opportunity to raise it, | 4:26:58 | 4:27:04 | |
or has not taken the opportunity to
do something about it. I do thank | 4:27:04 | 4:27:09 | |
you for giving way in supporting my
honourable friend, the member for | 4:27:09 | 4:27:12 | |
Eastbourne, does he not agree with
me that this failure to address this | 4:27:12 | 4:27:17 | |
issue, for whatever reason, from
whatever side of the house, reflects | 4:27:17 | 4:27:20 | |
badly on this parliament in general,
at a time when we could do with a | 4:27:20 | 4:27:24 | |
much higher standing in public
esteem? Well, Madam Deputy Speaker, | 4:27:24 | 4:27:30 | |
we have taken transitional
arrangements. I do feel it is | 4:27:30 | 4:27:36 | |
insulting for parties across the
house that have played their part in | 4:27:36 | 4:27:41 | |
where we are today to somehow wash
their hands on it. I will go on to | 4:27:41 | 4:27:44 | |
make some points that he will
forgive me. Those that are able to | 4:27:44 | 4:27:47 | |
work should support those that are
not confident in the expectation of | 4:27:47 | 4:27:52 | |
similar support when they reach
their own retirement. Today's | 4:27:52 | 4:27:56 | |
workers provide for the support of
today's pensioners. That is why it | 4:27:56 | 4:28:00 | |
is so important to correctly balance
the contributions being paid in at | 4:28:00 | 4:28:05 | |
present with the pension is being
withdrawn and to adjust pension ages | 4:28:05 | 4:28:09 | |
to maintain this balance in the
future. Women retiring today can | 4:28:09 | 4:28:14 | |
still expect to receive the state
pension for 24 and a half years on | 4:28:14 | 4:28:20 | |
average, almost three times longer
than men. As the minister outlined, | 4:28:20 | 4:28:25 | |
the Department for Work and Pensions
has communicated to the changes to | 4:28:25 | 4:28:27 | |
the state pension age since they
were first set out to 22 years ago. | 4:28:27 | 4:28:33 | |
As the honourable friend Paul
Redditch pointed out, in response to | 4:28:33 | 4:28:37 | |
the concerns raised on the 2011 act,
we introduced the £1.1 billion | 4:28:37 | 4:28:44 | |
concession previously mentioned,
which is staggered the changes and | 4:28:44 | 4:28:47 | |
ensure that nobody would wait more
than 18 months for their pensions, | 4:28:47 | 4:28:50 | |
compared to the previous timetable.
Any further concession would cost | 4:28:50 | 4:28:55 | |
significantly more. It would ask
people of working age, more | 4:28:55 | 4:28:59 | |
specifically today's younger people,
as my honourable friend the member | 4:28:59 | 4:29:02 | |
for Chelmsford mentioned earlier, to
pay even more for it. These outcomes | 4:29:02 | 4:29:07 | |
simply cannot be justified. I am not
going to give way because they | 4:29:07 | 4:29:14 | |
criticise the Budget and the
Chancellor. I am actually going to | 4:29:14 | 4:29:22 | |
make some progress. But I would like
to address some of the issues that | 4:29:22 | 4:29:27 | |
have been raised by his side of the
house. | 4:29:27 | 4:29:40 | |
If the Scottish National Party
disagree with any of the welfare | 4:29:40 | 4:29:46 | |
reforms as pointed out by the member
for south Aberdeen they have the | 4:29:46 | 4:29:49 | |
power to do something about it in
Scotland. | 4:29:49 | 4:29:54 | |
The honourable gentleman... The
honourable gentleman for Ross Sky | 4:29:54 | 4:30:00 | |
and Lochaber has mentioned on many
occasions the Scottish national | 4:30:00 | 4:30:06 | |
party's Westminster Parliamentary
group published a report by land | 4:30:06 | 4:30:13 | |
man, I told you you would be keen to
listen, a number of options for | 4:30:13 | 4:30:19 | |
compensates women 56 effect by the
2011 act. Their preferred option was | 4:30:19 | 4:30:25 | |
to abon don the act returning up to
the timetable of the 1995 Pensions | 4:30:25 | 4:30:29 | |
Act. The SNP commissioned report put
the cost of this at.9 billion for | 4:30:29 | 4:30:38 | |
the period 2016/17 to 202021.
As it stands, this is simply | 4:30:38 | 4:30:44 | |
unaffordable. But it also had the
double misfortune of being wrong. | 4:30:44 | 4:30:52 | |
The report significantly understood
estimated the full coarse of | 4:30:52 | 4:30:55 | |
returning to the 95 type table. The
Government estimate would be round | 4:30:55 | 4:31:01 | |
14 billion, nearly double for the
same period, including the impact of | 4:31:01 | 4:31:07 | |
lost revenue from tax and National
Insurance, which the report does not | 4:31:07 | 4:31:10 | |
fully take into account.
But worse, the SNP's position only | 4:31:10 | 4:31:15 | |
applies to costs to the five year
window between 2016 and 2020, 1. The | 4:31:15 | 4:31:21 | |
costs beyond this are not included
in the option put forward. If the | 4:31:21 | 4:31:27 | |
changes we are implementing did not
happen the cost to working age | 4:31:27 | 4:31:30 | |
people would be well over 30 billion
over that extended period and this | 4:31:30 | 4:31:35 | |
is equivalent to over £1100 per
household. I am sure he would like | 4:31:35 | 4:31:40 | |
to justify that to his constituents.
The Scottish National Party has | 4:31:40 | 4:31:44 | |
suggested using the National
Insurance fund to pay for the cost | 4:31:44 | 4:31:47 | |
of scrapping the 2011 Pensions Act.
This is not the intended use of the | 4:31:47 | 4:31:50 | |
fund and it is worth reiterating
today's National Insurance | 4:31:50 | 4:31:56 | |
contributions fund today's pensions
with only two months outgoing | 4:31:56 | 4:32:00 | |
payments in excess at any given
time. The new state pension is more | 4:32:00 | 4:32:04 | |
generous for many whom have been
historically worse off over the old | 4:32:04 | 4:32:08 | |
system. By 2030 over three million
women stand to gave an if ran of | 4:32:08 | 4:32:15 | |
£5507 extra per year as a result of
the changes. The acceleration of the | 4:32:15 | 4:32:19 | |
increase in state pension age for
both women and men is necessary to | 4:32:19 | 4:32:24 | |
enensure the state pension system
sustainability, in light of | 4:32:24 | 4:32:27 | |
increasing life expectancy and the
increasing pressure on public | 4:32:27 | 4:32:30 | |
resources.
In fact by 2035 there will be more | 4:32:30 | 4:32:33 | |
than twice as many people aged 100
and over as there are no now. | 4:32:33 | 4:32:37 | |
Failing to act in the light of such
evidence would be indeed be | 4:32:37 | 4:32:43 | |
recklessment with the increasing
financial pressure described we | 4:32:43 | 4:32:46 | |
cannot and should not unpick a
policy in place for 22 year, it is | 4:32:46 | 4:32:52 | |
not affordable when we take into
account the average woman reaching | 4:32:52 | 4:32:56 | |
state pension age will get a hiring
state pension income over her | 4:32:56 | 4:33:01 | |
lifetime than any average woman at
any point before. It is important to | 4:33:01 | 4:33:06 | |
appreciate the modern lived in
experience of later life in the 21st | 4:33:06 | 4:33:13 | |
century which has altered
significantly since the state | 4:33:13 | 4:33:19 | |
pension's interception.
Interception. Longer life is | 4:33:19 | 4:33:22 | |
reshaping the programme and
participation of older people within | 4:33:22 | 4:33:24 | |
society. This includes sustaining
work and other economic activity, | 4:33:24 | 4:33:31 | |
these over 60 continue to earn,
learn, contribute and to | 4:33:31 | 4:33:35 | |
participate.
Contrary to assertions from the | 4:33:35 | 4:33:41 | |
other side of the house it is an
insult to after an apprenticeship, | 4:33:41 | 4:33:46 | |
it an insult... Sorry I think the
minister had finished her remarks. | 4:33:46 | 4:33:55 | |
So, I probably hadn't finished quite
Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I just | 4:33:55 | 4:34:01 | |
say, I don't think anybody is
suggesting that older women should | 4:34:01 | 4:34:06 | |
be forced to take an apprenticeship.
Known is suggesting it should be, | 4:34:06 | 4:34:11 | |
they could be cajoled to do it. I
find it insulting that women over | 4:34:11 | 4:34:15 | |
the age of 60 should somehow by the
party here and the party here be put | 4:34:15 | 4:34:20 | |
on the scrap heap. They shouldn't be
allowed... They shouldn't be allowed | 4:34:20 | 4:34:27 | |
Madame Deputy Speaker to what they
want to do. If they want to take an | 4:34:27 | 4:34:32 | |
apprenticeship they should be
allowed to do it. | 4:34:32 | 4:34:38 | |
The question is that the question be
now put as many of of that opinion | 4:34:42 | 4:34:48 | |
say aye. To the contrary no. The
question is as on the order paper, | 4:34:48 | 4:34:55 | |
as many are of that opinion say aye.
To the contrary no. Division. Clear | 4:34:55 | 4:35:00 | |
the lobbies. | 4:35:00 | 4:35:01 | |
The question is is as on theed or
irpaper. As many of that opinion say | 4:37:13 | 4:37:17 | |
aye. Of the contheir no.
IAEAs to the right, no -- ayes to | 4:37:17 | 4:37:25 | |
the right. Nos to the left. Tellers
for the ayes... Patricia Gibson and | 4:37:25 | 4:37:34 | |
Patrick Grady. Terms for the noes,
Mhairi Black and Alan Campbell. | 4:37:34 | 4:37:41 | |
Rary no.
IAEAs | 4:38:44 | 4:38:44 | |
Lock the doors. | 4:43:15 | 4:43:24 | |
Order, order. | 4:48:03 | 4:48:07 | |
The ayes to the right, 468. The noes
to the left, zero. | 4:48:13 | 4:48:27 | |
The ayes to the right, 488. | 4:48:33 | 4:48:34 | |
The noes to the left, zero. | 4:48:34 | 4:48:41 | |
The ayes have it. Madam Deputy
Speaker, we just had an impassioned | 4:48:41 | 4:48:45 | |
debate this afternoon and a very
clear and very decisive result. This | 4:48:45 | 4:48:51 | |
house has determined that the
Government should bring in | 4:48:51 | 4:48:55 | |
mitigation for the WASPI women. I am
seeking your guidance as to what we | 4:48:55 | 4:48:58 | |
now need to do to empower the
Secretary of State for Work and | 4:48:58 | 4:49:02 | |
Pensions to come to this chamber and
recognise Parliamentary democracy, | 4:49:02 | 4:49:07 | |
and put in place the Government's
plans to respect the motion that | 4:49:07 | 4:49:10 | |
this house has voted for this
evening. | 4:49:10 | 4:49:13 | |
Thank you for that point of order. I
think the most useful thing I can do | 4:49:15 | 4:49:22 | |
is to read out the statement that
was made by the Leader of the | 4:49:22 | 4:49:27 | |
Commons. He updated the house on the
26th of October on the Government's | 4:49:27 | 4:49:36 | |
approach to opposition Day debates
and said, were a motion tabled by an | 4:49:36 | 4:49:42 | |
opposition party has been approved
by the house, the relevant Minister | 4:49:42 | 4:49:47 | |
will respond to the resolution of
the house by making a statement no | 4:49:47 | 4:49:52 | |
more than 12 weeks after the debate.
This is to allow thoughtful | 4:49:52 | 4:49:59 | |
considerations of the points that
have been made, facilitate | 4:49:59 | 4:50:03 | |
collective discussion across
Government, especially of | 4:50:03 | 4:50:10 | |
cost-cutting issues, and to outline
any actions that have been taken. I | 4:50:10 | 4:50:14 | |
think it is very clear what the
Government will do and I am sure the | 4:50:14 | 4:50:19 | |
honourable gentleman might like to
use, for example, business questions | 4:50:19 | 4:50:25 | |
tomorrow to question the leader of
the house further on when the | 4:50:25 | 4:50:30 | |
Secretary of State or there might be
a response from the Government. | 4:50:30 | 4:50:36 | |
Would it be possible, given the
amount of time it takes to undertake | 4:50:36 | 4:50:40 | |
these divisions on opposition day
motions, instead to issue the | 4:50:40 | 4:50:46 | |
Government's side with white flag to
wave, rather than having to go | 4:50:46 | 4:50:50 | |
through the inconvenience of a
division? Sight it is very | 4:50:50 | 4:50:54 | |
ingenious, but as the speaker has
said before, it is up to each | 4:50:54 | 4:50:58 | |
individual member of this house to
decide which way to vote or even | 4:50:58 | 4:51:02 | |
whether to vote. | 4:51:02 | 4:51:04 | |
We now come to the second opposition
day motion in the name of the leader | 4:51:11 | 4:51:17 | |
of the Scottish National Party on EU
nationals. Stephen Gethins to move. | 4:51:17 | 4:51:26 | |
Madam Deputy Speaker, as
parliamentarians, when we are | 4:51:26 | 4:51:29 | |
elected it is the responsibility of
each of us to represent all | 4:51:29 | 4:51:35 | |
citizens, regardless of who they
voted for. We must also be aware | 4:51:35 | 4:51:41 | |
that there are consequences to the
actions that we take in this place, | 4:51:41 | 4:51:45 | |
just as there are consequences to
the lack of action that we take in | 4:51:45 | 4:51:49 | |
this place. Madam Deputy Speaker, we
are now 525 days, 75 weeks on | 4:51:49 | 4:51:59 | |
Thursday from the EU referendum. A
EU referendum that delivered | 4:51:59 | 4:52:02 | |
crushing uncertainty to fellow
citizens that happened to come from | 4:52:02 | 4:52:07 | |
elsewhere in the European Union. We
can change that. We can take away | 4:52:07 | 4:52:13 | |
that uncertainty which has been so
damaging for the past 75 weeks. That | 4:52:13 | 4:52:21 | |
is why our motion today reflects the
Brexit committee report and states | 4:52:21 | 4:52:27 | |
that we should now make a unilateral
decision to safeguard the rights of | 4:52:27 | 4:52:32 | |
EU nationals living in the UK. That
desire direct quote from the | 4:52:32 | 4:52:39 | |
cross-party group that approved this
on the Brexit committee. This is | 4:52:39 | 4:52:42 | |
something that the Government should
have done months ago. Once again, it | 4:52:42 | 4:52:47 | |
is up to the side of the house to
give the Government the opportunity | 4:52:47 | 4:52:51 | |
to take away the uncertainty and to
do the right thing by our fellow | 4:52:51 | 4:52:57 | |
citizens. That should be the case
for EU citizens and core family | 4:52:57 | 4:53:00 | |
members. Can I congratulate him on
winning this road? It looks like the | 4:53:00 | 4:53:11 | |
hugged are exempting themselves from
democracy on this parliamentary | 4:53:11 | 4:53:14 | |
chamber. Would he agree that this
uncertainty has to be cleared up | 4:53:14 | 4:53:17 | |
once and for all? Many organisations
require EU nationals to stay | 4:53:17 | 4:53:29 | |
world-class. Will come on to
university shortly, but the | 4:53:29 | 4:53:35 | |
excellence of Edinburgh University
is only topped by the University of | 4:53:35 | 4:53:39 | |
St Andrews! He makes the point that
I hope that this house will back EU | 4:53:39 | 4:53:46 | |
citizens being able to remain, we
will take away the uncertainty they | 4:53:46 | 4:53:49 | |
have been given. As we should be
delivering fairness for WASPI women, | 4:53:49 | 4:53:52 | |
we should be delivering fairness for
EU citizens as well. Let me look at | 4:53:52 | 4:53:59 | |
the contribution. It is not simply
those in communities that have a EU | 4:53:59 | 4:54:05 | |
passport that will benefit, but the
community as a whole. A lot of | 4:54:05 | 4:54:09 | |
statistics are bandied about in
terms of the relationship with | 4:54:09 | 4:54:12 | |
Europe. Let me just give you a few.
There is the £40 billion just to | 4:54:12 | 4:54:17 | |
leave the EU, just to keep us
standing still, that we will not be | 4:54:17 | 4:54:22 | |
able to spend on public services.
There are the 80,000 jobs that it | 4:54:22 | 4:54:30 | |
will cost us in Scotland alone.
Another statistic is a £350 million | 4:54:30 | 4:54:37 | |
a week for the NHS that we were
promised. These were statistics that | 4:54:37 | 4:54:45 | |
came from senior government members
that are now in a position to | 4:54:45 | 4:54:48 | |
deliver that promise. | 4:54:48 | 4:54:52 | |
I have two universities in my
constituencies and they very often | 4:54:54 | 4:54:57 | |
rely on EU national expertise for
some of the technology that they | 4:54:57 | 4:55:05 | |
teach about. It is not just
universities that mean it is | 4:55:05 | 4:55:09 | |
important, it is across a range of
industries. Let me just compare some | 4:55:09 | 4:55:13 | |
of the statistics. The 3 billion
just to leave the European Union, | 4:55:13 | 4:55:21 | |
and the 350 million that we are yet
to see for the NHS every single | 4:55:21 | 4:55:24 | |
week. I will give you some
applicable statistics. In Scotland, | 4:55:24 | 4:55:31 | |
each EU citizen working in my
country contributes £34,000 to GDP | 4:55:31 | 4:55:39 | |
overall. Each EU citizen working in
Scotland contributes £10,500 in | 4:55:39 | 4:55:45 | |
Government revenue, the taxes that
we spend on these public services. | 4:55:45 | 4:55:51 | |
Frankly, EU citizens are better for
the economy than Brexit is, as far | 4:55:51 | 4:55:56 | |
as we are concerned. So, and this is
a critical point, and maybe the | 4:55:56 | 4:56:00 | |
Minister will touch upon this when
he sums up, will this Government | 4:56:00 | 4:56:04 | |
keep the promise made by Vote Leave,
made by senior members of the | 4:56:04 | 4:56:11 | |
government, that there will be no
change for EU citizens resident in | 4:56:11 | 4:56:15 | |
the UK and that they will be
treated, and once again, Madam | 4:56:15 | 4:56:19 | |
Deputy Speaker, I quote, no less
favourably than they are at present. | 4:56:19 | 4:56:24 | |
Vote Leave did not tell us much, but
they did make promises. These | 4:56:24 | 4:56:27 | |
promises were made by senior members
of the Government who have a | 4:56:27 | 4:56:30 | |
responsibility to keep them. I will
give way to the Honourable Member. I | 4:56:30 | 4:56:36 | |
thank him for giving way. Is he
aware that for him to say a EU sits | 4:56:36 | 4:56:43 | |
in that came here in 1968, who had a
stamping their passport might have | 4:56:43 | 4:56:50 | |
lost their passport, apparently
there will be required to prove that | 4:56:50 | 4:56:53 | |
they have not left the United
Kingdom for two years since they | 4:56:53 | 4:56:58 | |
arrived in 1968? The Honourable
Member makes an excellent point. I | 4:56:58 | 4:57:04 | |
have had people in my own
constituency that have lived here | 4:57:04 | 4:57:07 | |
from the 1970s, as far as I am
concerned they have as much right to | 4:57:07 | 4:57:11 | |
live here as I do, and they have
been taken away that right. That is | 4:57:11 | 4:57:14 | |
something that is a disgrace to each
and everyone of us. If I could just | 4:57:14 | 4:57:19 | |
talk about key industries, and I
will make some progress now, key | 4:57:19 | 4:57:25 | |
industries, you know, the member
says a scaremongering, there is one | 4:57:25 | 4:57:28 | |
way to get rid of scaremongering and
that is to vote with us tonight and | 4:57:28 | 4:57:32 | |
give EU citizens certainty. That is
a power that this Parliament has. | 4:57:32 | 4:57:38 | |
This Parliament has the power to put
an end to that uncertainty. Let me | 4:57:38 | 4:57:42 | |
talk about some of the key
industries. That side of the house | 4:57:42 | 4:57:46 | |
should be absolutely ashamed. In the
NHS, any of us that spent time in | 4:57:46 | 4:57:51 | |
hospital recently or who have
relatives who spent time, they will | 4:57:51 | 4:57:54 | |
tell the outstanding care from all
members of the NHS and all staff | 4:57:54 | 4:57:58 | |
members, including EU nationals. Few
of will not be treated by a EU | 4:57:58 | 4:58:03 | |
National at some point. The BMA
report that 45% of doctors are | 4:58:03 | 4:58:09 | |
considering leaving, and 19% had
already made arrangements to do so, | 4:58:09 | 4:58:14 | |
that is damaging for each and every
one of us. On farms, seasonal | 4:58:14 | 4:58:20 | |
workers make an absolutely crucial
contribution on farms. Just a couple | 4:58:20 | 4:58:24 | |
of weeks ago I was speaking to a
farmer in my constituency who plants | 4:58:24 | 4:58:29 | |
properly. What he was saying to me
was that broccoli has to be | 4:58:29 | 4:58:32 | |
harvested by hand. Seasonal workers
are down. If they continue to go | 4:58:32 | 4:58:37 | |
down, that harvest cannot be taken
in. That is an uncertainty that has | 4:58:37 | 4:58:41 | |
been created to industries in my
constituency and, I suspect, in | 4:58:41 | 4:58:46 | |
rural constituencies across the
United Kingdom. On that point, I | 4:58:46 | 4:58:48 | |
will give way to the honourable
lady. There is not a lot of rural | 4:58:48 | 4:58:54 | |
elements to my constituency, but
would he accept that the same | 4:58:54 | 4:58:57 | |
principle applies in relation to
construction, where we could face a | 4:58:57 | 4:59:01 | |
similar lack of skilled workers that
will hold up the urgent need for | 4:59:01 | 4:59:05 | |
more affordable homes, which is what
we need in my constituency | 4:59:05 | 4:59:09 | |
desperately? The honourable lady
makes an excellent point. The | 4:59:09 | 4:59:13 | |
University of St Andrews, a big
employer in my constituency, 22% of | 4:59:13 | 4:59:19 | |
academic staff and 31% of research
staff come from other EU countries. | 4:59:19 | 4:59:28 | |
That is absolutely critical. I will
just touch on the human angle. At | 4:59:28 | 4:59:30 | |
one point I was going to raise that
it is all very well talking about | 4:59:30 | 4:59:37 | |
statistics and the big impact, I
asked some colleagues about EU | 4:59:37 | 4:59:43 | |
nationals in their constituency. I
will give you some examples. I think | 4:59:43 | 4:59:47 | |
this is important. In Glasgow North,
for example, Michelle Gordon, a Scot | 4:59:47 | 4:59:52 | |
who originally from Germany, runs a
language hope to help young and old | 4:59:52 | 4:59:55 | |
learn language skills. Edinburgh
South, there is a Scot originally | 4:59:55 | 5:00:03 | |
from Latvia, volunteering to help
grow and cultivate languages to The | 5:00:03 | 5:00:13 | |
Vegetables for local children. A
Scot originally from Italy works | 5:00:13 | 5:00:18 | |
with five other EU nationals of
ground-breaking genetics, including | 5:00:18 | 5:00:22 | |
ground-breaking work on dyslexia. In
Edinburgh we have Spanish and Greek | 5:00:22 | 5:00:32 | |
dentists plugging a gap. | 5:00:32 | 5:00:37 | |
The MP for Central air she has been
married to a Scot Germany who has | 5:00:37 | 5:00:43 | |
been here for 32 years. And set up a
fishing business as a Scot from | 5:00:43 | 5:00:54 | |
Aberdeen. I thank the honourable
gentleman forgiving way. You, with | 5:00:54 | 5:00:57 | |
his knowledge of the Scottish
Parliament, would know that the | 5:00:57 | 5:01:03 | |
finishing work was done by a
craftsman from Eastern Europe and | 5:01:03 | 5:01:06 | |
both of them told me, in another
place, that work could not have been | 5:01:06 | 5:01:10 | |
carried out but for them, they had
the skills in this country. The | 5:01:10 | 5:01:14 | |
honourable gentleman makes an
excellent point and from his own | 5:01:14 | 5:01:17 | |
experience in the Scottish
parliament, where that Parliament | 5:01:17 | 5:01:21 | |
should reflect the modern Scotland
that draws from so many people. Let | 5:01:21 | 5:01:25 | |
me take your comment from this side
of the house... I'm grateful to the | 5:01:25 | 5:01:31 | |
honourable gentleman. Is he really
insinuating that there is actually a | 5:01:31 | 5:01:35 | |
threat in his mind, because it only
exists in his mind, that we are | 5:01:35 | 5:01:39 | |
somehow going to remove these very
valuable members of our society? It | 5:01:39 | 5:01:46 | |
is a preposterous suggestion and
simply fear mongering. This is | 5:01:46 | 5:01:52 | |
outrageous, if this was
scaremongering they would be quite | 5:01:52 | 5:01:55 | |
happy to remove uncertainty from EU
citizens and they have not, and what | 5:01:55 | 5:02:00 | |
happened to the 100 EU nationals who
received Home Office letters and | 5:02:00 | 5:02:03 | |
were then told it was an unfortunate
error? What they should have been | 5:02:03 | 5:02:08 | |
told is we are sorry, you are
welcome to stay. I want to finish | 5:02:08 | 5:02:15 | |
off, the UK is at a crossroads, a
crossroads in the kind of country | 5:02:15 | 5:02:20 | |
that we want to see. The first mark
of that should be how we treat those | 5:02:20 | 5:02:25 | |
who are fellow citizens. It is a
message that is coming out, that | 5:02:25 | 5:02:30 | |
they are bargaining chips. Is it a
message that we should be welcoming? | 5:02:30 | 5:02:35 | |
Like the WASPI women. If the UK
Government will not keep the | 5:02:35 | 5:02:41 | |
promises that were made by vote to
leave by senior members of this | 5:02:41 | 5:02:46 | |
administration who are in a position
to do something, they should devolve | 5:02:46 | 5:02:50 | |
power to the Scottish Government and
other devolved administrations too. | 5:02:50 | 5:02:54 | |
I'm sorry for those who have not
been able to get in, but I would | 5:02:54 | 5:02:58 | |
like to finish with this. The day
after the EU referendum, the First | 5:02:58 | 5:03:03 | |
Minister of Scotland said this. I
want to take the opportunity this | 5:03:03 | 5:03:08 | |
morning to speak directly to
citizens of other EU countries | 5:03:08 | 5:03:14 | |
living here in Scotland, you remain
well come here, Scotland is your | 5:03:14 | 5:03:17 | |
home and your contribution remains
valuable. What we are asking of | 5:03:17 | 5:03:23 | |
parliament today is to use the
powers that we have, is what Brexit | 5:03:23 | 5:03:30 | |
has already requested, to remove
uncertainty from EU citizens. We can | 5:03:30 | 5:03:33 | |
do it today, right now. Thank you.
The question is, as on the order | 5:03:33 | 5:03:41 | |
paper, Minister Brendan Lewis. Thank
you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is | 5:03:41 | 5:03:48 | |
good to have a chance to create some
of these things in accurately stated | 5:03:48 | 5:03:52 | |
just a few moments ago. I have to
say, it's interesting to listen to | 5:03:52 | 5:04:00 | |
the Scottish Nationalist party make
a speech where they simply decide to | 5:04:00 | 5:04:04 | |
not recognise democracy. There was a
referendum in this country, and a | 5:04:04 | 5:04:09 | |
decision was made, where they could
deliver on what the people of the | 5:04:09 | 5:04:12 | |
United Kingdom voted for. We will do
that in a way that delivers a good | 5:04:12 | 5:04:18 | |
deal for the United Kingdom. Rather
than listening to the Scottish | 5:04:18 | 5:04:23 | |
Nationalists party simply playing
catch up or trying to play catch up | 5:04:23 | 5:04:27 | |
yet again. I will just explain why,
yet again, they are behind the curve | 5:04:27 | 5:04:31 | |
on what is happening and where we
are. It is slightly odd, and | 5:04:31 | 5:04:36 | |
somewhat disconcerting, I suspect,
for many people in Scotland to | 5:04:36 | 5:04:41 | |
listen to their representatives, as
they would argue, sitting here today | 5:04:41 | 5:04:45 | |
failing to represent the very people
in Scotland who elected them, there | 5:04:45 | 5:04:49 | |
is not a single mention of any
British citizen or Scottish | 5:04:49 | 5:04:54 | |
individual working and living in the
EU. We need to ensure that we do the | 5:04:54 | 5:04:59 | |
right thing by then. I will make
some progress before taking | 5:04:59 | 5:05:05 | |
interventions. There are more than 3
million EU citizens currently living | 5:05:05 | 5:05:09 | |
in the UK and we have been very
clear that we value their | 5:05:09 | 5:05:12 | |
contribution to our national life,
both to our economy and to our rich | 5:05:12 | 5:05:18 | |
and diverse society. We want them to
stay. This is something we do agree | 5:05:18 | 5:05:23 | |
on. We want to stay and deliver
that. I give way. On the | 5:05:23 | 5:05:30 | |
contribution of EU nationals, does
it not concern you that there is a | 5:05:30 | 5:05:35 | |
89% drop of nurses and midwives
coming from Europe, and UK born | 5:05:35 | 5:05:40 | |
nurses coming off the register. What
will that mean for our country when | 5:05:40 | 5:05:46 | |
we cannot recruit nurses and
midwives to carry out those tasks? | 5:05:46 | 5:05:52 | |
I'm sure the honourable gentleman
will have done his homework to look | 5:05:52 | 5:05:55 | |
at what we are doing, and what we
are doing as we leave the EU, we | 5:05:55 | 5:06:02 | |
have independent migratory experts
looking at our commitment post | 5:06:02 | 5:06:04 | |
Brexit but let me be clear, we are
still in the EU, we have freedom of | 5:06:04 | 5:06:09 | |
movement in the EU and that will
continue until we leave the EU and | 5:06:09 | 5:06:13 | |
just last year, I will finish with
the first intervention, it is clear | 5:06:13 | 5:06:19 | |
that in this country we have net
migration figures are 42,000 net | 5:06:19 | 5:06:27 | |
migration figures, more than half of
which were EU nationals coming into | 5:06:27 | 5:06:30 | |
the country. We should continue to
be a country that welcomes people | 5:06:30 | 5:06:36 | |
and plays a part. I will make
progress and take more | 5:06:36 | 5:06:39 | |
interventions. I'm conscious that
there is limited time. It's an issue | 5:06:39 | 5:06:46 | |
that impact the lives of millions of
hard-working people across the | 5:06:46 | 5:06:49 | |
country and it has been the Prime
Minister's first priority in this | 5:06:49 | 5:06:53 | |
negotiation to ensure that they can
continue living their lives here as | 5:06:53 | 5:06:57 | |
before. I welcome the opportunity to
outline this further today. We have | 5:06:57 | 5:07:02 | |
made it very clear at every
opportunity that we want to offer EU | 5:07:02 | 5:07:06 | |
citizens living in the UK certainty
about their future status as early | 5:07:06 | 5:07:10 | |
as possible. We have been clear that
no EU citizen currently in the UK | 5:07:10 | 5:07:15 | |
lawfully has to leave at the point
where we exit the EU. Honourable | 5:07:15 | 5:07:19 | |
members can play their part in
reassuring their constituents of | 5:07:19 | 5:07:25 | |
that point. That's why in June we
published a fair and comprehensive | 5:07:25 | 5:07:30 | |
offer, irrespective of the position
of EU citizens and family members in | 5:07:30 | 5:07:34 | |
the UK, which gives those residents,
here before specified dates, the | 5:07:34 | 5:07:39 | |
opportunity to take UK settled
status after completing their | 5:07:39 | 5:07:43 | |
qualifying residency period. It
would enable them to continue with | 5:07:43 | 5:07:47 | |
their lives as before. Family
dependents, who qualified before the | 5:07:47 | 5:07:54 | |
exit date, can apply for UK settled
status after five years continued | 5:07:54 | 5:07:58 | |
residency, irrespective of these
specified dates. We have an | 5:07:58 | 5:08:06 | |
application system that is
streamlined and user-friendly. We | 5:08:06 | 5:08:09 | |
can develop a system that draws on
existing government data, including | 5:08:09 | 5:08:13 | |
employment records held by HMRC,
which can verify residents as they | 5:08:13 | 5:08:17 | |
work. | 5:08:17 | 5:08:20 | |
I give way to the honourable lady. I
thank the Honourable member for | 5:08:25 | 5:08:29 | |
giving way. Will he not agree that
every day that passes where EU | 5:08:29 | 5:08:33 | |
citizens are now living in limbo and
they come to my surgery in big | 5:08:33 | 5:08:39 | |
numbers, I can assure him, that
every day that passes is important | 5:08:39 | 5:08:43 | |
and the government needs to get on
with setting out what exactly | 5:08:43 | 5:08:47 | |
settled status is an design the
progress tomorrow? I would say to | 5:08:47 | 5:08:53 | |
the honourable lady that some of
what has already been said, if she | 5:08:53 | 5:08:57 | |
reads the government offer, it
clearly answers the point she has | 5:08:57 | 5:09:00 | |
made. She has a part to play in
reassuring her residence rather than | 5:09:00 | 5:09:04 | |
leaving them wondering about. We
have already said there will be a | 5:09:04 | 5:09:08 | |
two-year after Brexit for people to
make this application, and we can | 5:09:08 | 5:09:18 | |
avoid any unnecessary administrative
burdens. For those who hold an EU | 5:09:18 | 5:09:22 | |
permanent residence document, there
will be a simple process to change | 5:09:22 | 5:09:26 | |
this into a settled status document.
In terms of what EU citizens think | 5:09:26 | 5:09:33 | |
of his proposals, one of my
constituents, an EU citizen, they | 5:09:33 | 5:09:39 | |
think they are bureaucratic and
expensive, and he should withdraw | 5:09:39 | 5:09:47 | |
that status. Unilaterally. They
should do it now. I'm sure the | 5:09:47 | 5:09:50 | |
honourable gentleman will want to
check the details of what we have in | 5:09:50 | 5:09:54 | |
terms of that process and update his
residence to ensure they do not have | 5:09:54 | 5:10:00 | |
those concerns as what he has said
is inaccurate. We have been clear | 5:10:00 | 5:10:04 | |
that we fully expect the EU and
member states to ensure that the | 5:10:04 | 5:10:09 | |
rights of UK nationals living across
the EU before the specified date are | 5:10:09 | 5:10:14 | |
safeguarded in a reciprocal way and
despite not mentioning so far this | 5:10:14 | 5:10:17 | |
afternoon, I would like to think
that members across the house would | 5:10:17 | 5:10:20 | |
want to do the right thing to ensure
British citizens have their rights | 5:10:20 | 5:10:24 | |
protected as well. This issue must
be resolved as part of the | 5:10:24 | 5:10:28 | |
negotiations on exit from the EU to
ensure the fair treatment of UK | 5:10:28 | 5:10:33 | |
nationals living in these countries.
They are not convinced of the | 5:10:33 | 5:10:42 | |
government's integrity on this
particular point. Earlier this year | 5:10:42 | 5:10:46 | |
I took a petition to the European
Parliament, arguing for equal rights | 5:10:46 | 5:10:51 | |
for EU citizens living here and
British citizens living in the EU. | 5:10:51 | 5:10:57 | |
It's gone through three committees
of Parliament and asks several other | 5:10:57 | 5:11:02 | |
things. It has gone through three
committees of Parliament and can I | 5:11:02 | 5:11:06 | |
remind them that, at the end of the
day, European Parliament has the | 5:11:06 | 5:11:10 | |
power of veto over negotiations. And
I think you should bear that in mind | 5:11:10 | 5:11:17 | |
because a lot of members here have
also signed these petitions and it's | 5:11:17 | 5:11:23 | |
now going through the EU process.
It's an interesting contribution | 5:11:23 | 5:11:29 | |
from the honourable lady and I would
hope that she supports us in making | 5:11:29 | 5:11:31 | |
sure that we are able to make sure
all EU citizens in the UK are aware | 5:11:31 | 5:11:36 | |
of what the government is doing to
make sure they have confidence in | 5:11:36 | 5:11:40 | |
staying here. As I said, 1 million
UK nationals have built their lives | 5:11:40 | 5:11:44 | |
elsewhere in Europe and we want to
ensure we get a fair deal for EU | 5:11:44 | 5:11:48 | |
citizens in the UK and UK nationals
in the EU. It's a sensible approach | 5:11:48 | 5:11:53 | |
and what we will continue to take in
the coming weeks but, as I say, it | 5:11:53 | 5:11:57 | |
is notable that we are the party
making that point and I'm not | 5:11:57 | 5:12:01 | |
hearing that from members opposite
in this debate. We have detailed and | 5:12:01 | 5:12:07 | |
constructive negotiations with the
EU on citizens rights and we are | 5:12:07 | 5:12:10 | |
within touching distance of an
agreement. About two thirds of the | 5:12:10 | 5:12:14 | |
issues identified have been resolved
and we have isolated the key issues | 5:12:14 | 5:12:18 | |
but we will be working hard in the
coming days and weeks to finalise | 5:12:18 | 5:12:22 | |
this chapter of the withdrawal
agreement and of our shared | 5:12:22 | 5:12:27 | |
objective of reassurance to EU
citizens in the UK and UK nationals | 5:12:27 | 5:12:31 | |
in the EU. For the UK to take
unilateral positions at this stage | 5:12:31 | 5:12:36 | |
in negotiations would not be
appropriate or responsible. He has | 5:12:36 | 5:12:43 | |
sought to criticise my honourable
friend committee member for North | 5:12:43 | 5:12:46 | |
East Fife, for not mentioning UK
nationals in Europe. I know he has | 5:12:46 | 5:12:51 | |
met with them but can he tell us
why, if the government cares so much | 5:12:51 | 5:12:55 | |
about UK nationals and living in
Europe, where the Minister for | 5:12:55 | 5:12:59 | |
exiting the EU has refused to meet
with the British in Europe, who are | 5:12:59 | 5:13:03 | |
in that group, despite countless
requests to do so? As the Minister | 5:13:03 | 5:13:12 | |
for this portfolio, it's right we
have representatives in this group | 5:13:12 | 5:13:15 | |
as we have done and I will continue
to do so. The fact remains that | 5:13:15 | 5:13:18 | |
there needs to be an agreement
between us and the EU, which should | 5:13:18 | 5:13:23 | |
protect the status of UK nationals
living, working and studying | 5:13:23 | 5:13:27 | |
elsewhere in the EU. The motion
before the house this afternoon | 5:13:27 | 5:13:31 | |
calls for the introduction of
proposals in this section of | 5:13:31 | 5:13:34 | |
Parliament, to unilaterally
safeguard the rights of EU citizens | 5:13:34 | 5:13:39 | |
in the UK. I have explained why we
should not take unilateral action on | 5:13:39 | 5:13:43 | |
this issue, it would be the wrong
thing to do for British citizens. | 5:13:43 | 5:13:48 | |
Otherwise, I also have to say that
this measure is a little light, as | 5:13:48 | 5:13:55 | |
this government has announced new
legislation to ensure the agreement | 5:13:55 | 5:13:58 | |
between the UK and EU in our
domestic law. I will give way. When | 5:13:58 | 5:14:04 | |
I could I ask what consideration he
or his team have given to the case | 5:14:04 | 5:14:11 | |
of the 3 million, which is a
campaign group seeking to look at | 5:14:11 | 5:14:14 | |
the fact that when EU nationals
arrive and a different treaty, they | 5:14:14 | 5:14:19 | |
had nothing to do with the Home
Office and one of their fears is the | 5:14:19 | 5:14:23 | |
Home Office and their procedures may
lead to a Compper catered procedure | 5:14:23 | 5:14:28 | |
whereas a lighter touch approach,
say from the local authority, may be | 5:14:28 | 5:14:32 | |
more appropriate for those who did
arrive under free movement with a | 5:14:32 | 5:14:37 | |
different set of rights, | 5:14:37 | 5:14:41 | |
The honourable lady makes a fair
point. I have met with them. It will | 5:14:42 | 5:14:52 | |
be streamlined and designed to work
with the user groups working with | 5:14:52 | 5:14:57 | |
that system, to make sure we can
grab citizen status swiftly and | 5:14:57 | 5:15:00 | |
effectively. The implantation will
implement a contract, including | 5:15:00 | 5:15:10 | |
agreements on citizen rights, in UK
law by primary legislation. The | 5:15:10 | 5:15:15 | |
party opposite are somewhat behind
the curve. This will allow the | 5:15:15 | 5:15:21 | |
agreement on citizens rights having
direct enforcement and affecting UK | 5:15:21 | 5:15:25 | |
law. Ahead of any primary
legislation, we are planning to set | 5:15:25 | 5:15:28 | |
up a application process in 2018, so
that EU citizens and their family | 5:15:28 | 5:15:34 | |
members who want to get their new UK
immigration status at the earliest | 5:15:34 | 5:15:38 | |
convenience will be able to do so
officially, swiftly and effectively. | 5:15:38 | 5:15:44 | |
EU citizens have the government's
complete assurance that we want them | 5:15:44 | 5:15:50 | |
to stay, we value their presence and
they continue to be welcome in the | 5:15:50 | 5:15:55 | |
UK. Given that it is in the interest
of all parties to protect the rights | 5:15:55 | 5:16:01 | |
of their citizens once the UK except
the EU, we are confident that both | 5:16:01 | 5:16:06 | |
UK citizens and EU nationals will be
protected with a reciprocal | 5:16:06 | 5:16:08 | |
arrangement. We are very close to
reaching an agreement that will | 5:16:08 | 5:16:16 | |
protect UK citizens and EU nationals
alike. Anything else would risk | 5:16:16 | 5:16:21 | |
undermining our protection of UK
nationals in the EU. When we reach | 5:16:21 | 5:16:27 | |
this agreement, the government will
provide certainty to the millions of | 5:16:27 | 5:16:32 | |
UK citizens that have made the EU
their home. Two Just to say, there | 5:16:32 | 5:16:42 | |
are still a lot of speakers that
want to intervene. After the Shadow | 5:16:42 | 5:16:47 | |
Minister, I will impose a time limit
of three minutes. | 5:16:47 | 5:16:52 | |
The trade secretary told the Tory
party conference that the court | 5:17:02 | 5:17:08 | |
would like to be able to give
assurances to EU nationals in the | 5:17:08 | 5:17:13 | |
UK, but it depends on reciprocation
of other countries. He said any | 5:17:13 | 5:17:16 | |
other strategy, and again, quote,
would be to hand over one of our | 5:17:16 | 5:17:23 | |
main cards in the negotiations and
it doesn't necessarily make sense at | 5:17:23 | 5:17:28 | |
this point. This is using the EU
nationals as a bargaining chip. This | 5:17:28 | 5:17:36 | |
is the government's approach. This
could all have been resolved quickly | 5:17:36 | 5:17:42 | |
if the government made a guarantee
of rights. This is what those of us | 5:17:42 | 5:17:46 | |
on those benches were pushing for
and it would certainly have been | 5:17:46 | 5:17:51 | |
reciprocated by the EU. At the start
of negotiation, the EU tabled an | 5:17:51 | 5:17:57 | |
offer that opened the doors to a
reciprocal arrangement. At the UK | 5:17:57 | 5:18:03 | |
accepted and worked with the EU the
details of this, we may have settled | 5:18:03 | 5:18:06 | |
the issue by now. The UK did not
take that course and, instead, it | 5:18:06 | 5:18:14 | |
has created a climate of uncertainty
and confusion. Uncertainty has | 5:18:14 | 5:18:21 | |
already led to discrimination
against EU citizens. Let me make | 5:18:21 | 5:18:26 | |
some progress, as we already limited
by time. Labour and the EU citizens | 5:18:26 | 5:18:38 | |
right group, they found more than 2
million incidents illegally | 5:18:38 | 5:18:48 | |
preventing applications by EU
nationals. It has been reviewed by | 5:18:48 | 5:18:52 | |
the equalities commission, writing
to a number of advertisers. How can | 5:18:52 | 5:18:57 | |
EU nationals, who have been here for
decades, continue to feel welcome if | 5:18:57 | 5:19:01 | |
we allow discrimination of this
kind? Even the Home Office is | 5:19:01 | 5:19:08 | |
finding it hard to deal with the
confusion. Over the summer, they | 5:19:08 | 5:19:11 | |
sent 100 letters to EU nationals
living in the UK, ordering them to | 5:19:11 | 5:19:15 | |
leave the country or face
deportation. The letters were | 5:19:15 | 5:19:20 | |
intimidating and unsettling,
especially those given the | 5:19:20 | 5:19:24 | |
recipients were in the UK perfectly
legally. Instead, the Government | 5:19:24 | 5:19:32 | |
made its own offer on EU citizens
rights, the so-called settled | 5:19:32 | 5:19:36 | |
status. The offer has been
extensively criticised by the 3 | 5:19:36 | 5:19:40 | |
million. The Government must
urgently improve their offer and | 5:19:40 | 5:19:45 | |
stop acting as if the status is a
settled matter. The issues with the | 5:19:45 | 5:19:50 | |
settled status is that the
Government seems to think that | 5:19:50 | 5:19:56 | |
assimilating EU nationals into the
existing system is sufficient. This | 5:19:56 | 5:20:01 | |
will set out in the Home Office
white Paper. It is not sufficient. | 5:20:01 | 5:20:05 | |
YouGov has to realise very quickly
that both systems need a total | 5:20:05 | 5:20:12 | |
overhaul. Moreover, today's debate
focuses on EU nationals in the UK. | 5:20:12 | 5:20:20 | |
Let us not forget British citizens
living in the EU 27 countries. | 5:20:20 | 5:20:23 | |
Despite the pensioner stereotype,
80% of them are working on a | 5:20:23 | 5:20:30 | |
cross-border basis. What is the
Government doing to secure their | 5:20:30 | 5:20:35 | |
rights of freedom of movement and
recognise professional | 5:20:35 | 5:20:39 | |
qualifications? What assurance can
the Minister give today that these | 5:20:39 | 5:20:42 | |
rights will be guaranteed before
proceeding to phase two of the | 5:20:42 | 5:20:46 | |
negotiations? Another problem is the
attitude of some of the dilemma that | 5:20:46 | 5:20:53 | |
those opposite that EU nationals are
lucky to be in this country, rather | 5:20:53 | 5:20:58 | |
than acknowledging the value that
they bring and the contribution they | 5:20:58 | 5:21:00 | |
give to communities and the economy,
particularly in the book services, | 5:21:00 | 5:21:04 | |
not least the NHS. There are 58,000
NHS professionals from the EU alone. | 5:21:04 | 5:21:14 | |
The Prime Minister said very clearly
that we want you to stay and we | 5:21:20 | 5:21:23 | |
value your commitment. What part of
it doesn't he understand? It is | 5:21:23 | 5:21:32 | |
clear that things are still
confusing for everyone. What part of | 5:21:32 | 5:21:37 | |
it do you not understand, that you
need to give simple answers and then | 5:21:37 | 5:21:40 | |
we can move on? In total there are
2.4 million EU migrants working in | 5:21:40 | 5:21:50 | |
the UK, a far greater proportion are
in work than the population as a | 5:21:50 | 5:21:56 | |
whole. They make a huge
contribution. What they desperately | 5:21:56 | 5:22:00 | |
need now is certainty, before the
conclusion of phase one. This is the | 5:22:00 | 5:22:07 | |
bit I think you need to understand.
Certainty for EU citizens in the UK. | 5:22:07 | 5:22:12 | |
Certainty for UK citizens in the EU.
Certainty for the businesses and | 5:22:12 | 5:22:17 | |
communities that they have built
their lives in. The few provides | 5:22:17 | 5:22:22 | |
non-, as it is still busy
negotiating with itself. It seems to | 5:22:22 | 5:22:26 | |
be an alien concept to this
government. But citizens have | 5:22:26 | 5:22:30 | |
rights. EU nationals came here in
good faith when their rights were | 5:22:30 | 5:22:34 | |
guaranteed under the Freedom of
movement rules. Rather than | 5:22:34 | 5:22:38 | |
guaranteeing those rights, the few
is offering them the opportunity to | 5:22:38 | 5:22:42 | |
reapply for them, to charge them for
the privilege and to pretend that | 5:22:42 | 5:22:46 | |
nothing much has changed. EU
negotiators seem to believe that | 5:22:46 | 5:22:55 | |
this government is incompetent. We
on the side of the house value EU | 5:22:55 | 5:22:59 | |
nationals. It is high time that the
Government did as well and followed | 5:22:59 | 5:23:03 | |
up warm words with action. | 5:23:03 | 5:23:06 | |
My constituency actually voted to
leave the EU. This was not because | 5:23:11 | 5:23:15 | |
the local people are hostile to
immigrants. The University of East | 5:23:15 | 5:23:23 | |
Anglia analysis, look it up.
Immigrants from inside and outside | 5:23:23 | 5:23:27 | |
the European Union are welcome and
valued contributors to our | 5:23:27 | 5:23:29 | |
community. There is no doubt that EU
citizens make a key contribution. | 5:23:29 | 5:23:38 | |
Food processing has the highest
proportion of workers from the EU | 5:23:38 | 5:23:43 | |
from any sector, 58% of its labour
consisting of EU nationals. The | 5:23:43 | 5:23:48 | |
industry employs 120,000 people
across the UK. Many EU nationals | 5:23:48 | 5:23:52 | |
choose to make their permanent home
here, and many also choose to stay | 5:23:52 | 5:23:55 | |
for a time to work and then move on.
This creates a constant demand for | 5:23:55 | 5:24:01 | |
more workers, especially when
factors such as poor infrastructure, | 5:24:01 | 5:24:04 | |
particularly poor broadband, sadly
drives many young people out of the | 5:24:04 | 5:24:09 | |
area. I'm sure it'll come to the
house as no surprise that one of the | 5:24:09 | 5:24:17 | |
main reasons for voting leave was
the common fisheries policy. Leaving | 5:24:17 | 5:24:20 | |
the European Union and the common
fisheries policy means leaving the | 5:24:20 | 5:24:25 | |
single market, putting an end to
free movement of labour. The | 5:24:25 | 5:24:29 | |
prospect of needing more immigration
in the area because we have more | 5:24:29 | 5:24:32 | |
fish than we can catch an process is
a welcome one. However, it is clear | 5:24:32 | 5:24:35 | |
that there is a very real need to
develop the local workforce in the | 5:24:35 | 5:24:39 | |
long term. This includes not only
our own home-grown workforce, but | 5:24:39 | 5:24:43 | |
also the EU citizens that already
stay here and their children. This | 5:24:43 | 5:24:47 | |
can be done outside of the EU, as
taking back control over immigration | 5:24:47 | 5:24:52 | |
does not mean an end to immigration,
and nor should it. Bearing in mind | 5:24:52 | 5:24:57 | |
the great contribution of EU
nationals, as somebody who has an | 5:24:57 | 5:25:01 | |
international family of my own,
married to a wife from Azerbaijan, | 5:25:01 | 5:25:07 | |
like the Prime Minister and the UK
Government, iron in favour of | 5:25:07 | 5:25:11 | |
guaranteeing the rights of EU
citizens already living in the UK. | 5:25:11 | 5:25:14 | |
It is right we provide protection
and reassurance to families and | 5:25:14 | 5:25:17 | |
businesses as quickly as we can.
However, this must work both ways. | 5:25:17 | 5:25:21 | |
What we are debating here is the
idea of unilaterally granting these | 5:25:21 | 5:25:24 | |
rights. Without securing these same
rights were British citizens abroad. | 5:25:24 | 5:25:30 | |
I agree with members opposite that
Europeans that have made their home | 5:25:30 | 5:25:34 | |
in Scotland are very welcome. The
same must be true for Scots that | 5:25:34 | 5:25:37 | |
have their homes in Europe. What we
are doing in leaving the EU is not a | 5:25:37 | 5:25:43 | |
game. The question of rights after
Brexit affects millions of people, | 5:25:43 | 5:25:46 | |
not just EU citizens in the UK, but
EU citizens in the EU. The Scottish | 5:25:46 | 5:25:54 | |
National Party, which claims to
stand up for Scotland, are willing | 5:25:54 | 5:25:58 | |
to put Scots living outside the UK
last. Neither the EU or the UK | 5:25:58 | 5:26:06 | |
citizens should be used as
bargaining chips. However, this is | 5:26:06 | 5:26:09 | |
still in negotiation. Order. May I
begin by agreeing with my honourable | 5:26:09 | 5:26:19 | |
friend. It is an absolute disgrace
that 80 months after the referendum | 5:26:19 | 5:26:24 | |
the highly valued EU National still
do not know what lies in store for | 5:26:24 | 5:26:31 | |
them. Those well-respected,
hard-working tax paying members of | 5:26:31 | 5:26:35 | |
society have been treated
appallingly by this government. | 5:26:35 | 5:26:37 | |
Despite numerous opportunities to do
so, they have ignored all | 5:26:37 | 5:26:43 | |
opportunities to make a unilateral
guaranteed to EU nationals that | 5:26:43 | 5:26:47 | |
their current status will remain
unaltered when the UK leaves the | 5:26:47 | 5:26:51 | |
European Union. I repeat today,
please will the Government, | 5:26:51 | 5:26:55 | |
regardless of what others do, do the
right thing and say to those EU | 5:26:55 | 5:26:59 | |
citizens living, working and
contributing economically and | 5:26:59 | 5:27:03 | |
socially to the well-being of this
country that we will guarantee that | 5:27:03 | 5:27:07 | |
your status will not change with
Brexit and that you are welcome | 5:27:07 | 5:27:11 | |
here. Like many others have said, I
have had my mailbox full, and we | 5:27:11 | 5:27:18 | |
have had a steady stream of people
worried and looking for some | 5:27:18 | 5:27:21 | |
certainty I cannot give. I will give
one example to the Minister. One | 5:27:21 | 5:27:24 | |
example. A Polish EU citizen who has
lived in my hometown for the last 12 | 5:27:24 | 5:27:33 | |
years with young son. She is a
highly qualified, respected | 5:27:33 | 5:27:39 | |
multilingual social worker, working
in the area of domestic violence | 5:27:39 | 5:27:42 | |
reduction among communities where
English is not the first language. | 5:27:42 | 5:27:46 | |
She recently applied for UK
citizenship, so keen is she to stay | 5:27:46 | 5:27:50 | |
in Scotland after Brexit. On October
the 9th, she received a letter from | 5:27:50 | 5:27:54 | |
the Home Office saying that her
application had been refused on a | 5:27:54 | 5:27:58 | |
minor technicality because she did
not supply her blue resident card. | 5:27:58 | 5:28:05 | |
They could not be satisfied she was
a permanent resident on the date of | 5:28:05 | 5:28:08 | |
the application. They said to her,
the fact that you had been refused | 5:28:08 | 5:28:12 | |
is not because you do not qualify
for permanent residence, it is | 5:28:12 | 5:28:16 | |
because you are not provided a
permanent residence blue card. It is | 5:28:16 | 5:28:20 | |
painfully absurd. Her blue card may
have expired, it may have been lost, | 5:28:20 | 5:28:24 | |
but she has provided references and
she has provided a host of other | 5:28:24 | 5:28:28 | |
documentary evidence. The irony
being that we all received very | 5:28:28 | 5:28:32 | |
shortly afterwards from the Home
Office guidance that we will not | 5:28:32 | 5:28:36 | |
have applications refused on minor
technicalities. I ask the minister, | 5:28:36 | 5:28:40 | |
could he looks specifically at the
case? Looking wider, we putting | 5:28:40 | 5:28:46 | |
people through this? Why are we
putting people through the emotional | 5:28:46 | 5:28:48 | |
ringer when we are deliberate in
making its difficult for people that | 5:28:48 | 5:28:51 | |
simply want to get on with their
lives? I wholeheartedly agree with | 5:28:51 | 5:28:58 | |
my friend from North East Fife,
saying that Scotland needs a bespoke | 5:28:58 | 5:29:01 | |
immigration policy. The Government
here cannot provide what Scotland | 5:29:01 | 5:29:05 | |
needs. So it must evolve immigration
policy to the Scottish Government. A | 5:29:05 | 5:29:10 | |
policy which says thank you, and how
much we appreciate those that have | 5:29:10 | 5:29:13 | |
chosen to make Scotland a home from
abroad. | 5:29:13 | 5:29:18 | |
It is with some sadness that I rise
to speak in this debate. Mine is the | 5:29:19 | 5:29:24 | |
constituency that proportionally has
received more migrants from Eastern | 5:29:24 | 5:29:28 | |
Europe than anywhere else in the
country. Of all places, Boston and | 5:29:28 | 5:29:33 | |
Skegness knows the value that those
people from Poland, Latvia, | 5:29:33 | 5:29:37 | |
Lithuania and elsewhere bring to the
local economy. We have heard a great | 5:29:37 | 5:29:43 | |
deal already today of how surgeries
are flooded with people worried | 5:29:43 | 5:29:48 | |
about their livelihoods. Well, if I
may be blunt, surgeries may be | 5:29:48 | 5:29:54 | |
flooded if you scaremonger and if
you tell people that they may not be | 5:29:54 | 5:29:57 | |
welcome here. If you are for
political purposes prepared to | 5:29:57 | 5:30:06 | |
weaponised the lives and livelihoods
of people that have come to this | 5:30:06 | 5:30:09 | |
country in good faith and who the
Prime Minister has said are welcome | 5:30:09 | 5:30:13 | |
to stay, that is not good politics.
It is not good democracy. Frankly, | 5:30:13 | 5:30:17 | |
it is shameful conduct on the part
of people that have other political | 5:30:17 | 5:30:23 | |
motives when it comes to what is a
genuinely important matter for | 5:30:23 | 5:30:29 | |
constituents across this house. | 5:30:29 | 5:30:33 | |
On this side of the house, we have a
responsibility, I think, that we | 5:30:33 | 5:30:39 | |
have heard we are prepared to take
up, which is to reassure people who | 5:30:39 | 5:30:44 | |
are genuinely, in some cases,
concerned about their future in this | 5:30:44 | 5:30:48 | |
country and we have, as we have
heard from the front French already, | 5:30:48 | 5:30:53 | |
heard not just from the Prime
Minister but from a consistent | 5:30:53 | 5:30:57 | |
number of the whole of this
government, not only making a very | 5:30:57 | 5:31:02 | |
solid and sensible pitch, that we
want people to stay but also that | 5:31:02 | 5:31:06 | |
those who have asked for them to
leave do not represent the | 5:31:06 | 5:31:13 | |
mainstream of Brexit voters. They do
not represent a large number of | 5:31:13 | 5:31:17 | |
people. In my own constituency, the
only people who ask for foreigners | 5:31:17 | 5:31:25 | |
to "Go home", as it is often put is
either those people who seek to | 5:31:25 | 5:31:29 | |
misrepresent Brexit voters or those
with nakedly racist propositions to | 5:31:29 | 5:31:35 | |
put. Neither represent these views
of the house but we, in politics, | 5:31:35 | 5:31:41 | |
have a duty to reassure our
constituents and we know that a | 5:31:41 | 5:31:47 | |
small number, less than ten, who
have sought to come to my surgery, | 5:31:47 | 5:31:52 | |
have received just that reassurance
and they have gone away knowing that | 5:31:52 | 5:31:56 | |
this government seeks to provide
them with what they need. I would | 5:31:56 | 5:32:00 | |
just end by saying, what can we do
in this house? We can do things like | 5:32:00 | 5:32:06 | |
invite the Polish ambassador to our
constituency and stand with him on a | 5:32:06 | 5:32:11 | |
platform and say this government
represents the contribution of EU | 5:32:11 | 5:32:14 | |
nationals. We want you to stay and
will deliver that deal as best we | 5:32:14 | 5:32:18 | |
can. Mr Deputy Speaker, the
unintended consequences of leaving | 5:32:18 | 5:32:25 | |
the EU are appearing thick and fast
and restrictions on EU nationals are | 5:32:25 | 5:32:31 | |
among the most unexpected for some
folks at least. There has been some | 5:32:31 | 5:32:35 | |
talk of scaremongering today, so
here is one of my French | 5:32:35 | 5:32:40 | |
constituents who have lived in
Scotland for 24 years, and has been | 5:32:40 | 5:32:43 | |
married to a Scot for those 24 years
and they have three children | 5:32:43 | 5:32:47 | |
together. She has been refused a
residency card for not exited -- | 5:32:47 | 5:32:54 | |
exercising her treaty rights. She
has maintained her home and three | 5:32:54 | 5:32:58 | |
children while her husband was in
the Marines, including tours of | 5:32:58 | 5:33:01 | |
Bosnia and Northern Ireland, they
spent he is the member of the | 5:33:01 | 5:33:10 | |
Honourable Corps, of arms, more
commonly known as the Queen's | 5:33:10 | 5:33:13 | |
bodyguard. The Home Office says that
his wife cannot prove that she can | 5:33:13 | 5:33:17 | |
support herself. Her husband's
income, the love and support she has | 5:33:17 | 5:33:28 | |
provided and the idea that she has
not been exercising her treaty | 5:33:28 | 5:33:33 | |
rights is ludicrous. I am writing to
ministers and awaiting an answer. | 5:33:33 | 5:33:37 | |
Mark Dredge Afellay made from Italy
to London as a young man nearly 30 | 5:33:37 | 5:33:41 | |
years ago and built a career in the
tourism industry, including the | 5:33:41 | 5:33:45 | |
chief executive of Visit Scotland
for five years. His international | 5:33:45 | 5:33:50 | |
management company has brought
wealth into the UK, his application | 5:33:50 | 5:33:55 | |
for citizenship was refused on the
grounds that he could not prove that | 5:33:55 | 5:33:58 | |
he was a resident in the UK. This
was in spite of providing receipts | 5:33:58 | 5:34:03 | |
from HMRC which the Home Office
asked for as a proof of residence. | 5:34:03 | 5:34:09 | |
He has a wife and three children, he
never thought he had to prove he | 5:34:09 | 5:34:14 | |
lived here. If he does not match the
profile of EU citizens, this | 5:34:14 | 5:34:21 | |
government will accept, who can
match that profile? I have written | 5:34:21 | 5:34:27 | |
to ministers about this case but
they are only two examples. There is | 5:34:27 | 5:34:33 | |
a common thread running through
constituents and a whole theme is | 5:34:33 | 5:34:39 | |
the fear people have that they will
not be welcome in their home and a | 5:34:39 | 5:34:43 | |
bureaucratic decision will see them
sent from family or left without a | 5:34:43 | 5:34:47 | |
secure right to stay here.
Constituents of mine are living in | 5:34:47 | 5:34:50 | |
fear of the state. Consider that, a
modern state. A supposed democracy | 5:34:50 | 5:34:54 | |
where people live in fear of action
from the state. They are swinging in | 5:34:54 | 5:35:01 | |
the wind, as they are enthralled by
a xenophobic wing of our family and | 5:35:01 | 5:35:09 | |
a right wing antiforeigner media.
Ironic for a party stuffed with | 5:35:09 | 5:35:14 | |
people proud of their ancestry, the
Anglos, Saxons and the Normans. Mr | 5:35:14 | 5:35:22 | |
deputy chairman and also with
ancestors stuff in the Dutch come in | 5:35:22 | 5:35:28 | |
my case. We will move swiftly on. I
welcome this debate and the chance | 5:35:28 | 5:35:32 | |
to highlight the government's
commitment to the issue. I would | 5:35:32 | 5:35:36 | |
like to welcome that we are close to
an agreement and that the Prime | 5:35:36 | 5:35:44 | |
Minister has worked hard to ensure
we are in the right place from this. | 5:35:44 | 5:35:48 | |
I welcome the chance to rise and
thank people for the contribution | 5:35:48 | 5:35:52 | |
that they make when they come to
this country and they work and they | 5:35:52 | 5:35:57 | |
work in industries where we can be
proud. They lead in the area of | 5:35:57 | 5:36:02 | |
science, in our universities, in the
building industry and our NHS. Why | 5:36:02 | 5:36:06 | |
on earth would we do not want to
encourage and promote their | 5:36:06 | 5:36:13 | |
security? And that lack of
understanding and what a negotiation | 5:36:13 | 5:36:17 | |
was by the Honourable member for
North East Fife? I have three | 5:36:17 | 5:36:22 | |
minutes, you had considerably more.
One of the points that you made was | 5:36:22 | 5:36:28 | |
that the Honourable member from
Ayrshire, her husband, a German, has | 5:36:28 | 5:36:32 | |
worked long and hard within the NHS.
But you have shown no care for those | 5:36:32 | 5:36:39 | |
people who may be British and
working abroad. This is what the | 5:36:39 | 5:36:47 | |
negotiation is about. Primarily, the
progress we have made today of the | 5:36:47 | 5:36:50 | |
60 aspects that we been discussing a
37, we are on target with this, the | 5:36:50 | 5:36:56 | |
UK has done more and that is widely
recognised, compared to the other 27 | 5:36:56 | 5:37:01 | |
countries to bring this process to
where it is. It's a crucial moment | 5:37:01 | 5:37:06 | |
in these negotiations and it is
important that the processes for the | 5:37:06 | 5:37:12 | |
Minister in Great Yarmouth, what he
spoke about, that these things are | 5:37:12 | 5:37:15 | |
seamless and that they happen. HMRC,
certainly, will have a part to play, | 5:37:15 | 5:37:21 | |
whether it is the right body to take
things forward. I would like to | 5:37:21 | 5:37:25 | |
understand a little more because
they are not always as fluid and | 5:37:25 | 5:37:29 | |
operation as we would like to see
them Bayern. -- being. There is | 5:37:29 | 5:37:36 | |
progress to be made on this deal.
The citizens, the direction of | 5:37:36 | 5:37:42 | |
talks, and jobs have a crucial part
to play in that and we do not want | 5:37:42 | 5:37:47 | |
to destroy the brilliant economy
that we have, which encourages | 5:37:47 | 5:37:50 | |
people to this country. In
conclusion, we need to look after | 5:37:50 | 5:37:55 | |
not only the 3 million that we have
but the 1.2 million citizens who are | 5:37:55 | 5:38:02 | |
honourable, it is right, and clear
the negotiations are at a crucial | 5:38:02 | 5:38:05 | |
stage and we should ensure that we
stick these negotiations and get the | 5:38:05 | 5:38:11 | |
best deal for everyone involved. We
need to also ensure that we, in this | 5:38:11 | 5:38:15 | |
house, do not behave impatiently
with arrogance Bert behave with | 5:38:15 | 5:38:22 | |
behaviour that would critically
endangered the people we have... -- | 5:38:22 | 5:38:27 | |
but behave with behaviour that will
not critically endangered the people | 5:38:27 | 5:38:29 | |
we have. You are talking in a way
with a stunning amount of stress. We | 5:38:29 | 5:38:38 | |
have seen what | 5:38:38 | 5:38:40 | |
people are going through. We have
all been treated by, served by and | 5:38:43 | 5:38:48 | |
supported by EU nationals, and we
probably all have good reasons to be | 5:38:48 | 5:38:52 | |
grateful to them. In the Highlands,
our friends, neighbours and | 5:38:52 | 5:38:55 | |
colleagues, they happen to come from
other parts of Europe, this | 5:38:55 | 5:39:01 | |
uncertainty visited upon them is no
way to treat our friends. Without | 5:39:01 | 5:39:06 | |
whom, businesses face the danger in
the highlands of scaling down and | 5:39:06 | 5:39:10 | |
even having difficulties
functioning. From cradle to grave | 5:39:10 | 5:39:14 | |
they make a positive impact on
Scotland, especially in the | 5:39:14 | 5:39:19 | |
Highlands with a population growth
that is essential and without inward | 5:39:19 | 5:39:24 | |
migration, more older people,
incidentally Mr Speaker, nothing | 5:39:24 | 5:39:28 | |
wrong with older people, I've
harboured a lifelong ambition to | 5:39:28 | 5:39:31 | |
become one and I'm making good
progress! The pensions and health | 5:39:31 | 5:39:38 | |
care than they can contribute to.
Brexit free and over ten years, 90% | 5:39:38 | 5:39:45 | |
of the Scottish population's growth
is projected from migration, | 5:39:45 | 5:39:49 | |
especially in the Highlands. It's a
cold fact that without them we have | 5:39:49 | 5:39:52 | |
more deaths than births. 30% of the
Highlands and Islands population | 5:39:52 | 5:39:58 | |
live in remote areas and we need
people to help them. Young people | 5:39:58 | 5:40:02 | |
leaving means that we require EU
nationals and families in the | 5:40:02 | 5:40:07 | |
Highlands. They support our health
service. 6% of NHS clinicians are | 5:40:07 | 5:40:14 | |
from the EU. We have already
estimated that we cannot recruit all | 5:40:14 | 5:40:19 | |
of the regulated staff, doctors,
nurses, from hospitals and surgeries | 5:40:19 | 5:40:22 | |
for our future needs. The Royal
College of Nursing, as pointed out | 5:40:22 | 5:40:27 | |
earlier, have seen applications from
EU nationals collapse by 96%. It's | 5:40:27 | 5:40:33 | |
looking incredibly difficult to cope
with an ageing population and a | 5:40:33 | 5:40:37 | |
survey of communities in the care
sector, just one example pointed out | 5:40:37 | 5:40:41 | |
that those with learning
difficulties in the care sector, 170 | 5:40:41 | 5:40:46 | |
out of 251 where EU nationals. Only
five were UK citizens. Whether it is | 5:40:46 | 5:40:55 | |
food, drink, tourism, the
construction industry, as we heard | 5:40:55 | 5:40:59 | |
only this morning, an unprecedented
alliance with seven of the industry | 5:40:59 | 5:41:03 | |
's major bodies coming together,
talking about the industry facing a | 5:41:03 | 5:41:06 | |
cliff edge over EU workers, and an
inability to deliver an | 5:41:06 | 5:41:12 | |
infrastructure, the National
Federation of builders and others | 5:41:12 | 5:41:15 | |
have all said that this is a
disaster. We need EU nationals, not | 5:41:15 | 5:41:21 | |
only across the UK but especially in
Scotland, and desperately in the | 5:41:21 | 5:41:25 | |
Highlands. Mr Speaker, Mr Deputy
Speaker, EU nationals living in the | 5:41:25 | 5:41:31 | |
UK form and integral part of the
economic fabric of this country. I | 5:41:31 | 5:41:36 | |
should declare an interest. My wife
is from Stockholm and it's no | 5:41:36 | 5:41:42 | |
surprise that I am very supportive
of the principle that it should be | 5:41:42 | 5:41:45 | |
business as usual for EU nationals,
even if it means me having a quiet | 5:41:45 | 5:41:49 | |
home life! Is the right thing to do.
We've always been an open, | 5:41:49 | 5:41:54 | |
attractive and welcoming country. As
Ruth Davidson said in 2016, for | 5:41:54 | 5:41:57 | |
those who have chosen to build a
life and open a business and make a | 5:41:57 | 5:42:02 | |
contribution, I would say this is
your home and you are welcome here. | 5:42:02 | 5:42:06 | |
I associate myself fully and
unreservedly within those comments. | 5:42:06 | 5:42:09 | |
This party on the side of the house
has stood with those that, as John | 5:42:09 | 5:42:13 | |
Major said, had the guts and drive
to travel to another country | 5:42:13 | 5:42:16 | |
thousands of miles away, to work to
better themselves. We have | 5:42:16 | 5:42:28 | |
exclusively confirmed that UK does
not want anyone living legally in | 5:42:28 | 5:42:31 | |
the UK to be asked to leave because
of our exit from the EU. It is the | 5:42:31 | 5:42:36 | |
desired outcome that it will be
possible for EU citizens to be | 5:42:36 | 5:42:43 | |
treated the same. No EU national
will be treated as a second-class | 5:42:43 | 5:42:47 | |
citizen. I had to say the
scaremongering on this issue by the | 5:42:47 | 5:42:52 | |
party opposite is utterly shameful.
Putting fear into the hearts of EU | 5:42:52 | 5:42:56 | |
nationals by making false claims
about their future in this country | 5:42:56 | 5:42:59 | |
is a disgrace and they should be
ashamed. They know full well | 5:42:59 | 5:43:02 | |
discussions on the bilateral
agreement had been going on from the | 5:43:02 | 5:43:05 | |
start of the Brexit process and it
was one of the first issues | 5:43:05 | 5:43:09 | |
negotiators sought to resolve. It's
been made explicitly clear by the | 5:43:09 | 5:43:13 | |
government that they do not want
citizens used as a bargaining chip. | 5:43:13 | 5:43:18 | |
But they cannot risk our UK citizens
in the EU becoming a bargaining chip | 5:43:18 | 5:43:23 | |
either. We made progress, as
recently as October the Prime | 5:43:23 | 5:43:26 | |
Minister wrote that Brussels and our
Parliament within touching distance | 5:43:26 | 5:43:32 | |
of a deal on citizens rights and
nothing from any other European | 5:43:32 | 5:43:37 | |
leader has contradicted this,
including Michel Barnier, who has | 5:43:37 | 5:43:40 | |
agreed that an agreement on this is
close. They want to see rights | 5:43:40 | 5:43:44 | |
granted for one side at the point
when we are so close to agreeing the | 5:43:44 | 5:43:48 | |
rights for everyone. This is total
madness. Mr Deputy Speaker, EU | 5:43:48 | 5:43:55 | |
nationals are welcome and will
always be welcome in the United | 5:43:55 | 5:43:58 | |
Kingdom but I must urge members of
the SNP benches opposite to think | 5:43:58 | 5:44:02 | |
carefully about how seriously their
motion would jeopardise the chances | 5:44:02 | 5:44:06 | |
of their Scottish constituent
enjoying similar rights in the rest | 5:44:06 | 5:44:08 | |
of the EU. | 5:44:08 | 5:44:17 | |
Representing East Lothian, an
agricultural constituency that | 5:44:17 | 5:44:18 | |
relies heavily on EU workers and
also for our carer services and that | 5:44:18 | 5:44:28 | |
houses many EU workers who work in
the University sector in Queen | 5:44:28 | 5:44:34 | |
Margaret University, we have had
close relationships with Europe, | 5:44:34 | 5:44:37 | |
especially a delay. Family still
exist in our community who moved in | 5:44:37 | 5:44:43 | |
the 19th century from Tuscany when
there was an economic problem. 60% | 5:44:43 | 5:44:50 | |
of people who live in this Italian
town can say they have Scottish | 5:44:50 | 5:44:57 | |
relations. The result lack of
confidence among EU citizens about | 5:44:57 | 5:45:04 | |
this Government's intentions and I
hear a lot of cry in this chamber | 5:45:04 | 5:45:09 | |
that perhaps it is for the
Government to clarify its position. | 5:45:09 | 5:45:14 | |
The connections that exist are deep.
Is it too much to ask that our | 5:45:14 | 5:45:20 | |
neighbours, friends and workers have
the right secured and they | 5:45:20 | 5:45:23 | |
understand what their rights will
be? Britain is undoubtedly one of | 5:45:23 | 5:45:32 | |
the most open, tolerant and
welcoming countries on earth. We | 5:45:32 | 5:45:36 | |
have seen this and EU citizens have
benefited our economy hugely and our | 5:45:36 | 5:45:43 | |
society and have brought diversity
to work towns and rural communities. | 5:45:43 | 5:45:48 | |
It has even shown that despite the
falling value of the pound, despite | 5:45:48 | 5:45:52 | |
some of the negative headlines that
came the day after the Brexit third, | 5:45:52 | 5:45:58 | |
net migration figures of a quarter
of a million paid testament to what | 5:45:58 | 5:46:06 | |
a great country this is to make your
home and this is something I get | 5:46:06 | 5:46:10 | |
from my constituents and those EU
nationals who come to see me. That | 5:46:10 | 5:46:16 | |
is why even before Article 50 was
triggered, the Prime Minister said | 5:46:16 | 5:46:20 | |
it was something we wanted to deal
with at the earliest opportunity. It | 5:46:20 | 5:46:26 | |
was the EU who stated this would not
be dealt with on top after we | 5:46:26 | 5:46:30 | |
triggered Article 50. The EU let
people in a state of limbo during | 5:46:30 | 5:46:36 | |
those months as we waited to begin
negotiations. I welcome the fact we | 5:46:36 | 5:46:41 | |
are in touching distance of this,
but I believe that as someone who | 5:46:41 | 5:46:47 | |
supported remain in the referendum,
I was disappointed with that initial | 5:46:47 | 5:46:52 | |
approach from the EU and to do so
now when we are in touching distance | 5:46:52 | 5:47:00 | |
would be a gross error to do right
now at this moment as we negotiate | 5:47:00 | 5:47:07 | |
those 1.2 million people from our
country who are making their lives | 5:47:07 | 5:47:14 | |
overseas, and anyone who thinks that
everything will be all right, there | 5:47:14 | 5:47:18 | |
will be no issue, we have to think
about some of the positions the EU | 5:47:18 | 5:47:23 | |
has taken, and member states. Spain
link access to sovereignty over | 5:47:23 | 5:47:32 | |
Gibraltar, and I remind the House we
have just gone through an event in | 5:47:32 | 5:47:36 | |
Catalonia which shows bad grace and
bad faith in that respect, so what | 5:47:36 | 5:47:41 | |
should we do? Should we hand over
everything in that respect and say | 5:47:41 | 5:47:48 | |
effectively OK, it's fine and you
can do what you wish and take | 5:47:48 | 5:47:56 | |
unilateral action and threatening,
that I think would be a grave | 5:47:56 | 5:48:01 | |
negotiating error. We heard a lot
from the other benches about EU | 5:48:01 | 5:48:15 | |
citizens being valued but words are
cheap, and I speak to EU citizens | 5:48:15 | 5:48:20 | |
every weekend, often I will meet
somebody because they are fully | 5:48:20 | 5:48:28 | |
integrated in the community and
their partners or flatmates are | 5:48:28 | 5:48:31 | |
often British citizens, and I'm
talking about what they say to me | 5:48:31 | 5:48:37 | |
and they are genuinely upset and
feel they are being treated as | 5:48:37 | 5:48:42 | |
second-class citizens, not just by
the failure to grant them access but | 5:48:42 | 5:48:47 | |
what they are being offered. This is
a policy statement which gives | 5:48:47 | 5:48:57 | |
rights to EU citizens which are less
than they would have. We don't know | 5:48:57 | 5:49:01 | |
if that will be the final Virgin but
the fact remains that there will | 5:49:01 | 5:49:06 | |
have to be a process of application,
there will be a fee, that will apply | 5:49:06 | 5:49:12 | |
even to those who have permanent
residents already. There will be an | 5:49:12 | 5:49:17 | |
onus on those citizens that they
have to deal with and all that sends | 5:49:17 | 5:49:24 | |
out a signal that they will not have
status equal to what they have now, | 5:49:24 | 5:49:31 | |
they will have the status of eight
second-class, so what the Government | 5:49:31 | 5:49:37 | |
should do and I cannot better what
the 3 million group have said in | 5:49:37 | 5:49:41 | |
response to that, is they should
grant the same rights as now and do | 5:49:41 | 5:49:51 | |
it without a long bureaucratic
process to go through, and if they | 5:49:51 | 5:49:56 | |
don't do that, the signal they sent
to EU nationals in this country, is | 5:49:56 | 5:50:05 | |
that they are not as they should be
and people are already voting with | 5:50:05 | 5:50:09 | |
their feet and these are often
talented people who could work | 5:50:09 | 5:50:16 | |
elsewhere and if the Government
wishes them to leave the country, | 5:50:16 | 5:50:21 | |
they should be upfront about that.
By the back door they are suggesting | 5:50:21 | 5:50:26 | |
to EU citizens in this country that
they will not have the same rights | 5:50:26 | 5:50:32 | |
or be on the same basis, that they
will have checks they have to go | 5:50:32 | 5:50:38 | |
through, residents checks in order
to stay here. Why should they put up | 5:50:38 | 5:50:43 | |
with that change of attitude or
change of status? The minister | 5:50:43 | 5:50:46 | |
should say today, firstly there will
be a unilateral decision and | 5:50:46 | 5:50:53 | |
secondly it will be on the basis of
equal status to what the residents | 5:50:53 | 5:50:58 | |
have now, and if he cannot do that,
all the words he has said tonight | 5:50:58 | 5:51:04 | |
carry no weight and the value they
place on EU citizens is less than | 5:51:04 | 5:51:08 | |
they have now. I'm proud to live in
a country where neighbourliness | 5:51:08 | 5:51:15 | |
leads us to embrace newcomers as our
own. There's something inspiring | 5:51:15 | 5:51:21 | |
about our warm embrace of citizens
from around the world and it often | 5:51:21 | 5:51:26 | |
set bed that tolerance is a British
virtue, but it's beyond that, it's | 5:51:26 | 5:51:31 | |
an warm acceptance and seven are
diversity. People from around the | 5:51:31 | 5:51:39 | |
world make a full contribution to
society, the errant economic | 5:51:39 | 5:51:43 | |
necessity. There are students and
entrepreneurs and skilled walkers, | 5:51:43 | 5:51:50 | |
and I had a privilege to lead teams
of wonderful colleagues from | 5:51:50 | 5:51:55 | |
inspiring people from across the EU
who had chosen to come here and | 5:51:55 | 5:51:59 | |
build their lives here, and every
one of those colleagues, inform with | 5:51:59 | 5:52:05 | |
other EU nationals here, are assured
of their position in our society, | 5:52:05 | 5:52:11 | |
which is as much there is as it is
mine, and that is why the priority | 5:52:11 | 5:52:17 | |
of this Government in our
negotiations with the EU was to | 5:52:17 | 5:52:20 | |
secure the status of EU citizens in
the UK and British nationals in the | 5:52:20 | 5:52:26 | |
EU, and that is what makes this
debate redundant because we have | 5:52:26 | 5:52:32 | |
received assurances from the
Minister that we are within touching | 5:52:32 | 5:52:36 | |
distance of an agreement to
safeguard these rights. The SNP | 5:52:36 | 5:52:41 | |
bring this issue up with alarming
frequency because every time they | 5:52:41 | 5:52:47 | |
do, despite 1000 assurances to the
contrary, they tell people their | 5:52:47 | 5:52:51 | |
right to stay here is at risk. Note
EU national living in the UK | 5:52:51 | 5:52:57 | |
lawfully should have any fear about
having to leave when our country | 5:52:57 | 5:53:02 | |
leaves the EU. The SNP spread fear
and panic because they think there | 5:53:02 | 5:53:06 | |
is political advantage and fear and
panic are unjustified. The | 5:53:06 | 5:53:13 | |
implication that we are plotting to
ship our friends and neighbours and | 5:53:13 | 5:53:18 | |
colleagues and partners to the
country they came from is absurd but | 5:53:18 | 5:53:23 | |
it is a narrative the SNP delight in
because absurdity is their | 5:53:23 | 5:53:29 | |
speciality. Whatever spin be put on
this, the people of Britain, the | 5:53:29 | 5:53:34 | |
family of nations and regions that
make up the UK, voted to leave the | 5:53:34 | 5:53:40 | |
EU. EU nationals are welcome here
and will continue to be welcomed. I | 5:53:40 | 5:53:48 | |
don't think the British people who
have EU nationals as friends and | 5:53:48 | 5:53:53 | |
family and neighbours would stand
for any other policy and it is | 5:53:53 | 5:53:58 | |
disreputable of the party opposite
to suggest that. I am happy this | 5:53:58 | 5:54:01 | |
House should take a lead from our
neighbours and EU National friends | 5:54:01 | 5:54:06 | |
who were under no threat whatsoever
from this Government. I'm prepared | 5:54:06 | 5:54:13 | |
to accept the Government's stated
position that they will ensure many | 5:54:13 | 5:54:18 | |
of the EU citizens living here will
stay after this negotiation, but I | 5:54:18 | 5:54:24 | |
hope the Minister will have the
fragments to accept the facts and | 5:54:24 | 5:54:29 | |
figures that many EU nationals have
already left since the referendum | 5:54:29 | 5:54:34 | |
and that is damaging many aspects of
our society and our economy. It's | 5:54:34 | 5:54:38 | |
not wrong, and I talk to business
and local hospitals, they are all | 5:54:38 | 5:54:47 | |
worried about recruitment and people
going home. I would briefly say that | 5:54:47 | 5:54:54 | |
net migration was 246,000 last year,
figures are up for EU nationals | 5:54:54 | 5:55:00 | |
coming to this country. Those
figures show what's happened in the | 5:55:00 | 5:55:05 | |
past. If the minister talked to
businesses and people working in the | 5:55:05 | 5:55:11 | |
health service, he would note that
is changing significantly and | 5:55:11 | 5:55:15 | |
vertically. He is in a ridiculous
world if he thinks that is not the | 5:55:15 | 5:55:20 | |
case, so if he is going to welcome
EU nationals, first of all, those | 5:55:20 | 5:55:27 | |
job adverts that some of us are
being shown by Italian nationals and | 5:55:27 | 5:55:31 | |
German nationals where people are
advertising jobs saying only British | 5:55:31 | 5:55:36 | |
passport holders can apply, will he
ensure that the full weight of the | 5:55:36 | 5:55:40 | |
law goes against those people
putting up those adverts because | 5:55:40 | 5:55:46 | |
they are illegal, and we need to
make sure that discrimination is | 5:55:46 | 5:55:50 | |
clamped down on. I hope he will give
that assurance and tell us the | 5:55:50 | 5:55:55 | |
measures he and his colleagues will
take to prevent discrimination | 5:55:55 | 5:55:59 | |
against EU nationals. The way the
honourable gentleman from | 5:55:59 | 5:56:07 | |
Hammersmith spoke about how the
system in place would be easy and | 5:56:07 | 5:56:12 | |
welcoming and not difficult and
expensive, so here is a concrete | 5:56:12 | 5:56:16 | |
case, and EU national with permanent
residency here who applied and paid | 5:56:16 | 5:56:22 | |
for that, the Government asked them
to apply again for settled status. | 5:56:22 | 5:56:27 | |
Will he say they will not be charged
for that? Having paid for a | 5:56:27 | 5:56:31 | |
permanent residency, will he say
they will not be charged for having | 5:56:31 | 5:56:36 | |
to apply again for settled status?
And went and EU nationals cannot | 5:56:36 | 5:56:41 | |
prove that and is given temporary
status, when they then apply for | 5:56:41 | 5:56:48 | |
permanent settled status in five
years, will they have to pay for | 5:56:48 | 5:56:51 | |
that again? I hope you will make it
clear that they will not. I hope he | 5:56:51 | 5:56:58 | |
will make it clear that the
registration process will be simple | 5:56:58 | 5:57:01 | |
and easy. Will he take up the ideas
from the 3 million group that in | 5:57:01 | 5:57:07 | |
order to register people will have
to prove they lived here for five | 5:57:07 | 5:57:10 | |
years and have identity. That would
be correct and bureaucratic and I | 5:57:10 | 5:57:16 | |
hope he will commit to that from
dispatch box. -- and not | 5:57:16 | 5:57:22 | |
bureaucratic. I hope he will
reassure people about how | 5:57:22 | 5:57:27 | |
negotiations are going on family
reunion. This is one thing the group | 5:57:27 | 5:57:31 | |
are most worried about because they
see the Government is taking away | 5:57:31 | 5:57:36 | |
rights they had for their relatives
to bring them here. Can I end by | 5:57:36 | 5:57:42 | |
referring to the views of the 3
million group? They have set them | 5:57:42 | 5:57:47 | |
out in detail and they say they
believe the settled status proposal | 5:57:47 | 5:57:51 | |
being put forward by the UK is not
fit for purpose and should be | 5:57:51 | 5:57:58 | |
regretted and they set out an
alternative. They are worried | 5:57:58 | 5:58:02 | |
because they do not trust the Home
Office. Many of them have worked | 5:58:02 | 5:58:07 | |
with the Home Office, they feel it
is slow and makes mistakes and is | 5:58:07 | 5:58:12 | |
unreliable and they don't want to
have to go through the process of | 5:58:12 | 5:58:16 | |
other people have suffered in the
past. The UK Government recognises | 5:58:16 | 5:58:23 | |
the necessity to address uncertainty
and to that affect the Prime | 5:58:23 | 5:58:27 | |
Minister has committed to
maintaining EU citizens' writes. | 5:58:27 | 5:58:33 | |
Many members have risen on the side
to make clear, as the Minister has. | 5:58:33 | 5:58:38 | |
I declare an interest as a farmer
and a food processor, as the | 5:58:38 | 5:58:45 | |
honourable member said with
broccoli, it is important for EU | 5:58:45 | 5:58:49 | |
workers to us. Members opposite do
not have a monopoly on this. EU | 5:58:49 | 5:58:57 | |
nationals are important to
honourable members, M from Buchan, | 5:58:57 | 5:59:01 | |
Boston and Skegness, and foreign
nationals are important to the oil | 5:59:01 | 5:59:06 | |
industry. Constituencies like West
Aberdeenshire and businesses I speak | 5:59:06 | 5:59:13 | |
to contrast with the experience to
the right honourable member for | 5:59:13 | 5:59:18 | |
Kingston. They are relatively
positive. Members should do their | 5:59:18 | 5:59:24 | |
utmost to reassure our people who
are still anxious about their status | 5:59:24 | 5:59:30 | |
but they are still entitled to stay
here. We should now do everything in | 5:59:30 | 5:59:35 | |
our power to ensure what is
enshrined in UK law regarding the | 5:59:35 | 5:59:41 | |
rights of EU citizens living and
working here is integrated into law | 5:59:41 | 5:59:48 | |
regarding citizens living and
working in EU countries. Those UK | 5:59:48 | 5:59:53 | |
nationals based abroad deserve
certainty as much as EU citizens | 5:59:53 | 5:59:57 | |
here and export to an agreement. | 5:59:57 | 6:00:03 | |
Thank you very much, Mr Deputy
Speaker. I'm pleased to be able to | 6:00:03 | 6:00:08 | |
sum up in this debate. They hope the
house will forgive me, we do not | 6:00:08 | 6:00:12 | |
have enough time to go through all
of the constituencies but it is a | 6:00:12 | 6:00:16 | |
lie to the myth that the SNP I never
interested in talking about anything | 6:00:16 | 6:00:19 | |
important. Both debates could easily
have gone on for four or five hours | 6:00:19 | 6:00:27 | |
each. But Mr Deputy Speaker, I'd
like to pick up on the main themes | 6:00:27 | 6:00:30 | |
from both sides of the debate.
Firstly, let me draw attention to | 6:00:30 | 6:00:34 | |
this document from the house in a
few days ago. It does not list the | 6:00:34 | 6:00:42 | |
entire contribution, there are only
39 pages, it's an extremely brief | 6:00:42 | 6:00:47 | |
summary but the follow-up to that
stage, the Scottish Government | 6:00:47 | 6:00:50 | |
believes that continuing free
movement of people is in the best | 6:00:50 | 6:00:55 | |
interests of Scotland and the United
Kingdom as a whole. What a shame. | 6:00:55 | 6:01:00 | |
What a disgrace that the United
Kingdom government refuses point | 6:01:00 | 6:01:04 | |
blank to accept that because, Mr
Deputy Speaker, when there's a | 6:01:04 | 6:01:10 | |
referendum on leaving the EU, there
has been no referendum on the | 6:01:10 | 6:01:14 | |
movement of three people or the
single market and can in some | 6:01:14 | 6:01:19 | |
countries, 62%, including those in
the local authority, and 62% of | 6:01:19 | 6:01:25 | |
people in one country in this union
voted to remain in the EU. A lot of | 6:01:25 | 6:01:33 | |
very specific and individual cases
raised on this side of the house, | 6:01:33 | 6:01:36 | |
there's no doubt they could have
been many more, had there been time | 6:01:36 | 6:01:39 | |
and a great many more do not want to
be identified for various reasons. | 6:01:39 | 6:01:43 | |
One of the interventions asked for
the reassurance, but missed the | 6:01:43 | 6:01:50 | |
point completely. Its 3 million
other people outside of this chamber | 6:01:50 | 6:01:54 | |
who need to understand and get
assurances, and they are simply not | 6:01:54 | 6:01:58 | |
reassured. From the benches
opposite, the SNP are | 6:01:58 | 6:02:03 | |
scaremongering. Scottish
Conservative members of Parliament | 6:02:03 | 6:02:06 | |
are accusing Scottish National Party
members of Parliament of | 6:02:06 | 6:02:09 | |
scaremongering about the results and
consequences of a referendum. You | 6:02:09 | 6:02:14 | |
could not make it up! And another
major theme from across the house is | 6:02:14 | 6:02:20 | |
that the government really do
generally care for the rise of EU | 6:02:20 | 6:02:24 | |
nationals living in the UK.
Question... Why then did it take | 6:02:24 | 6:02:30 | |
nine months after the referendum and
a full-scale select committee | 6:02:30 | 6:02:33 | |
enquiry before the government
realised that their system for | 6:02:33 | 6:02:38 | |
allowing EU nationals to stay here
permanently was ultimately unfit to | 6:02:38 | 6:02:44 | |
purpose and the views of those one
and a half million people, it was | 6:02:44 | 6:02:48 | |
clearly designed to deter people
from applying for a permanent right | 6:02:48 | 6:02:53 | |
to stay. Are they the actions of a
government Deputy Speaker who cared | 6:02:53 | 6:02:57 | |
that much? It's in the report and at
a time where we offered an | 6:02:57 | 6:03:01 | |
intervention, you can tell me that
they have read the report? Quite | 6:03:01 | 6:03:05 | |
clearly, they have not because we
cannot give unilateral guarantees | 6:03:05 | 6:03:11 | |
because it would prejudice the
position of the 3 million UK | 6:03:11 | 6:03:14 | |
citizens in the EU, if members
opposite had bothered to read the | 6:03:14 | 6:03:18 | |
report, which they hinted at,
paragraph 43, this view was shared | 6:03:18 | 6:03:24 | |
by UK nationals living in other EU
countries. UK citizens, from whom | 6:03:24 | 6:03:28 | |
they took advice, resident in
France, Spain and Belgium, agreed | 6:03:28 | 6:03:34 | |
that the United Kingdom should make
an offer. And Mr Deputy Speaker, for | 6:03:34 | 6:03:41 | |
anyone on the benches opposite, who
turned up for the debate on the 12th | 6:03:41 | 6:03:48 | |
of September 2017, they had a chance
to debate the plight of UK nationals | 6:03:48 | 6:03:52 | |
living in the EU. I do not need to
bother because one Conservative | 6:03:52 | 6:03:55 | |
backbencher turned up to speak in
this debate. Even he wasn't able to | 6:03:55 | 6:04:02 | |
stay until then. The minister was
the only Conservative member in the | 6:04:02 | 6:04:06 | |
Westminster Hall at the conclusion
of that debate and if they bothered | 6:04:06 | 6:04:10 | |
to read the report, certainly if the
honourable member for Aberdeenshire, | 6:04:10 | 6:04:16 | |
could describe the recommendations
and those recommendations were | 6:04:16 | 6:04:24 | |
unanimous. They would have known
that membership for the committee at | 6:04:24 | 6:04:27 | |
the time before the last general
election contained a majority of | 6:04:27 | 6:04:31 | |
Conservative MPs. Madness! They may
even have recognised the names, so | 6:04:31 | 6:04:41 | |
many responsible for that unanimous
act of madness as one of them is now | 6:04:41 | 6:04:45 | |
the Secretary of State for the
environment. And one of them is the | 6:04:45 | 6:04:49 | |
Secretary of State for Justice...
So, Mr Deputy Speaker, if he wants | 6:04:49 | 6:04:53 | |
to tell them that they are mad, then
you can say goodbye to his political | 6:04:53 | 6:04:57 | |
career! Before it has even started
but Mr Deputy Speaker, British | 6:04:57 | 6:05:04 | |
citizens living abroad once the
house to agree on this resolution | 6:05:04 | 6:05:09 | |
tonight because they believe it's in
their best interests for the UK to | 6:05:09 | 6:05:13 | |
make the first move but I will
finish with this... When the | 6:05:13 | 6:05:17 | |
honourable gentleman for Manchester
used the phrase bargaining chips | 6:05:17 | 6:05:22 | |
which came from government
ministers, initially and not from | 6:05:22 | 6:05:25 | |
us, what do you call them, Mr Deputy
Speaker, when they say they cannot | 6:05:25 | 6:05:31 | |
do this because if we do this, it
makes it less likely that these | 6:05:31 | 6:05:36 | |
people will do that, which we also
want them to do. It's a negotiation | 6:05:36 | 6:05:40 | |
tactic, Mr Deputy Speaker. And what
is called A and B? They are | 6:05:40 | 6:05:50 | |
bargaining chips. You may not like
the language, that the international | 6:05:50 | 6:05:55 | |
trade Secretary chose to use but if
the government refuses to accept | 6:05:55 | 6:05:58 | |
this mission tonight, if the reason
is because they want to be able to | 6:05:58 | 6:06:04 | |
use the uncertainty that they have
in the minds of EU nationals here to | 6:06:04 | 6:06:07 | |
get certainty in the minds of UK
nationals living abroad, not only | 6:06:07 | 6:06:12 | |
are they going against the unanimous
views of a group that included a lot | 6:06:12 | 6:06:17 | |
of their own MPs, not only are they
undermining the wish of those 3 | 6:06:17 | 6:06:23 | |
million people living in mainland
Europe, but they are continuing to | 6:06:23 | 6:06:28 | |
use all 4.5 billion as bargaining
chips. They don't like to hear that, | 6:06:28 | 6:06:33 | |
Mr Deputy Speaker but the only way
they can stop that is to stop them | 6:06:33 | 6:06:39 | |
being bargaining chips but give
unilateral guarantees that everybody | 6:06:39 | 6:06:46 | |
desperately wants to hear. Thank
you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I would like | 6:06:46 | 6:06:56 | |
to thank the Right Honourable and
honourable members across the house | 6:06:56 | 6:07:00 | |
who participated in the debate this
evening. On this very important | 6:07:00 | 6:07:04 | |
issue of safeguarding the rights of
EU citizens living here, in the UK, | 6:07:04 | 6:07:09 | |
and also the rights of UK citizens
living in the European Union after | 6:07:09 | 6:07:15 | |
our withdrawal. I am glad that
Parliament has had the chance to | 6:07:15 | 6:07:20 | |
debate this issue again because I
hope we will reach clarity at the | 6:07:20 | 6:07:25 | |
end of the debate today. I've heard
very many members opposite describe | 6:07:25 | 6:07:32 | |
the worries and concerns of
constituents and the alleged | 6:07:32 | 6:07:37 | |
uncertainty that people feel that
they are living under. May I please | 6:07:37 | 6:07:42 | |
take this opportunity to clarify the
situation, and I hope that the | 6:07:42 | 6:07:47 | |
members opposite, who are clearly
concerned about their constituents, | 6:07:47 | 6:07:51 | |
that they will do the responsible
thing and the next time a | 6:07:51 | 6:07:55 | |
constituent comes into their surgery
with concerns about this issue, that | 6:07:55 | 6:08:00 | |
they will reiterate the government
position and it is as follows. Those | 6:08:00 | 6:08:07 | |
European citizens, I would be
grateful if members opposite could | 6:08:07 | 6:08:11 | |
give me a moment to say there so
they can understand this, and so | 6:08:11 | 6:08:16 | |
that their constituents can hear it
as well. Those European citizens and | 6:08:16 | 6:08:19 | |
family members worried about their
status year have the government's | 6:08:19 | 6:08:23 | |
complete assurance that we want them
to stay and that they continue to be | 6:08:23 | 6:08:30 | |
welcome in the United Kingdom. I
would ask please, if I may just | 6:08:30 | 6:08:36 | |
finish, I would ask please that that
position is clarified when | 6:08:36 | 6:08:45 | |
constituents go into the honourable
member 's surgeries, because I fear | 6:08:45 | 6:08:50 | |
that it is that misunderstanding
which, I think some members opposite | 6:08:50 | 6:08:55 | |
are perhaps labouring under. It is
that misunderstanding that may be | 6:08:55 | 6:08:59 | |
contributing to our concern. I will
take one intervention as I am | 6:08:59 | 6:09:03 | |
conscious of time. I think the
Minister may misunderstand, the | 6:09:03 | 6:09:10 | |
response was in response to letters
constituents received from the | 6:09:10 | 6:09:14 | |
government. Forgive me, the concerns
that were raised, and I know that | 6:09:14 | 6:09:20 | |
individual cases were raised and I
hope very much that they are chasing | 6:09:20 | 6:09:24 | |
up those letters, if they have not
received responses to them as of | 6:09:24 | 6:09:29 | |
yet, but the concerns, honourable
member is no that assurances given | 6:09:29 | 6:09:37 | |
today at the dispatch box, I hope
that the honourable members can | 6:09:37 | 6:09:41 | |
communicate that to their
constituents while they are waiting | 6:09:41 | 6:09:44 | |
to hear responses from the Home
Office. Another point of | 6:09:44 | 6:09:49 | |
clarification, if I may, for the
right honourable member for Kingston | 6:09:49 | 6:09:52 | |
and Surbiton, I can give the
reassurance that the discrimination | 6:09:52 | 6:09:57 | |
that he has described in job
adverts, that is wrong. The | 6:09:57 | 6:10:01 | |
government will continue to crack
down on any such discrimination. | 6:10:01 | 6:10:05 | |
But, if I may move to contributions
made by my honourable friends in | 6:10:05 | 6:10:10 | |
this debate, we have heard from the
honourable members for Bannff and | 6:10:10 | 6:10:18 | |
Buchan, West Aberdeenshire and
Kincardine, Bury St Edmunds, | 6:10:18 | 6:10:21 | |
Solihull, Stirling and Gordon, all
of whom have represented the views | 6:10:21 | 6:10:25 | |
of their constituents and some
represent Leave voting | 6:10:25 | 6:10:29 | |
constituencies but I must say
special mention for my honourable | 6:10:29 | 6:10:33 | |
friend and Lincolnshire neighbour,
the honourable member for Boston | 6:10:33 | 6:10:35 | |
Skegness who has the honour of
representing one of the most | 6:10:35 | 6:10:42 | |
populated positions, constituencies,
in the country with Eastern European | 6:10:42 | 6:10:48 | |
's and he set out for a gusty, I
think, the views of his | 6:10:48 | 6:10:52 | |
constituents. Both broad and bred
yellow bellies but those with the | 6:10:52 | 6:10:56 | |
good sense to move to his
constituency from the European | 6:10:56 | 6:11:02 | |
Union. Since the result of the
referendum last summer, the | 6:11:02 | 6:11:06 | |
government has made it absolutely
clear how important it is that we | 6:11:06 | 6:11:11 | |
secure their status here and as soon
as possible. It's the Prime | 6:11:11 | 6:11:16 | |
Minister's first priority in these
negotiations. The Prime Minister set | 6:11:16 | 6:11:19 | |
this out in her open letter to EU
citizens, and the right to settled | 6:11:19 | 6:11:25 | |
status will be divined McCrickard
defined in the withdrawal agreement | 6:11:25 | 6:11:31 | |
which will be implemented in UK
legislation. On negotiations, the | 6:11:31 | 6:11:36 | |
government wants to offer assurance
that we are now close to reaching an | 6:11:36 | 6:11:40 | |
agreement on citizens rights.
They're rarely remains a small | 6:11:40 | 6:11:45 | |
number of outstanding issues, to be
agreed with our European partners. | 6:11:45 | 6:11:49 | |
The focus over the coming weeks will
be on delivering an agreement that | 6:11:49 | 6:11:53 | |
works for EU citizens living here,
and the UK nationals living in the | 6:11:53 | 6:11:58 | |
EU. The fact remains that there must
be agreement with the European Union | 6:11:58 | 6:12:05 | |
on this matter. We cannot just wish
it away. Taking unilateral positions | 6:12:05 | 6:12:11 | |
at this vital stage in the
negotiations would risk the position | 6:12:11 | 6:12:15 | |
of United Kingdom nationals who have
also chosen to build their lives, | 6:12:15 | 6:12:20 | |
who have also chosen to build their
lives with their families in other | 6:12:20 | 6:12:27 | |
countries. It would not be
responsible for this government to | 6:12:27 | 6:12:30 | |
ignore them and to enter into the
unilateral agreements urged upon us | 6:12:30 | 6:12:38 | |
by the Scottish Nationalists. In
conclusion, Mr Deputy Speaker, the | 6:12:38 | 6:12:44 | |
government would like to reassure
European Union citizens across the | 6:12:44 | 6:12:48 | |
United Kingdom, that we are
confident of reaching a deal that | 6:12:48 | 6:12:52 | |
will enable them to carry on with
their lives as before. As the Prime | 6:12:52 | 6:12:57 | |
Minister has said clear -- made
clear, no EU citizen living lawfully | 6:12:57 | 6:13:03 | |
in the UK will be required to leave
when the United Kingdom withdraws | 6:13:03 | 6:13:08 | |
from the European Union. We
recognise and value the huge | 6:13:08 | 6:13:12 | |
contribution EU citizens make to our
economy, to our health service, | 6:13:12 | 6:13:17 | |
schools and care sector and to our
communities. We will act fairly to | 6:13:17 | 6:13:23 | |
them, just as we expect other EU
countries to act fairly towards | 6:13:23 | 6:13:27 | |
United Kingdom nationals living
there. Safeguarding the rights of | 6:13:27 | 6:13:34 | |
citizens is a shared priority for
both sides in these negotiations, | 6:13:34 | 6:13:39 | |
and a reciprocal agreement that
works for all of our citizens is now | 6:13:39 | 6:13:43 | |
within touching distance. Thank you.
Pramac the question is as on the | 6:13:43 | 6:13:51 | |
order paper, as many of the opinion
say aye... The aye Brawn habit. | 6:13:51 | 6:14:07 | |
I wonder if I can seek your
guidance. This House has now agreed | 6:14:07 | 6:14:11 | |
there should be at unilateral
decision to safeguard the rights of | 6:14:11 | 6:14:16 | |
EU nationals. When will the Home
Secretary come in front of the House | 6:14:16 | 6:14:22 | |
to deliver this? I think you have
been given is the instruction | 6:14:22 | 6:14:29 | |
earlier but for the record, the
Leader of the House has made clear | 6:14:29 | 6:14:38 | |
the Government are determined to
listen and take account of use from | 6:14:38 | 6:14:42 | |
all sides, read there is an
opportunity for the Government to | 6:14:42 | 6:14:48 | |
listen and better enable, we will do
so, so I am updating the House on | 6:14:48 | 6:14:53 | |
the Government's approach to
Opposition Day debates went a debate | 6:14:53 | 6:14:59 | |
has been tabled by opposition
parties. The relevant Minister will | 6:14:59 | 6:15:04 | |
make a statement no more than 12
weeks after the debate, to allow | 6:15:04 | 6:15:09 | |
thoughtful consideration of the
points raised, facilitating | 6:15:09 | 6:15:14 | |
collective discussion across
government and to outline any | 6:15:14 | 6:15:17 | |
actions that are being taken. This
is the line, with suggestions made | 6:15:17 | 6:15:24 | |
by members across the House and I
hope colleagues will welcome the new | 6:15:24 | 6:15:30 | |
opportunity for accountability this
provides. That is the instruction | 6:15:30 | 6:15:35 | |
that happens after division. Point
of order. Given that explanation | 6:15:35 | 6:15:42 | |
from the Leader of the House, will
it now be known as the Leadsom | 6:15:42 | 6:15:52 | |
principal? The question is this
House do now adjourn. Drew Hendry. | 6:15:52 | 6:16:02 | |
Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I've
raised the issue of Universal Credit | 6:16:02 | 6:16:08 | |
in this place many times over the
issues faced by my constituents and | 6:16:08 | 6:16:12 | |
others. This debate is about
Universal Credit and its affect on | 6:16:12 | 6:16:21 | |
the terminally ill. This has been
one of the most humbling experiences | 6:16:21 | 6:16:28 | |
of my parliamentary career so far,
preparing for this, and I would like | 6:16:28 | 6:16:35 | |
to pay tribute to Marie Curie, to
the Macmillan Highland Citizens' | 6:16:35 | 6:16:42 | |
Advice bureau partnership and to the
MND Association for their input but | 6:16:42 | 6:16:49 | |
especially to those terminally El
claimants who have come forward with | 6:16:49 | 6:16:55 | |
their stories of the issues they
face, stories of delays, of | 6:16:55 | 6:17:02 | |
difficulties, the deficits they face
as disabled people. The complexities | 6:17:02 | 6:17:08 | |
and frustrations that confront them.
The humiliations and dignity they | 6:17:08 | 6:17:12 | |
have to suffer and please, Mr Deputy
Speaker, are very simple things, for | 6:17:12 | 6:17:19 | |
this Government to fix. Some, at
little or no cost to the Government, | 6:17:19 | 6:17:31 | |
and if the Chancellor is sincere in
what he said during the budget, that | 6:17:31 | 6:17:36 | |
he wanted a civilised and tolerant
place that cares for the vulnerable, | 6:17:36 | 6:17:41 | |
you will take on board the
representations I am making on | 6:17:41 | 6:17:44 | |
behalf of those agencies and the
terminally held tonight. I will give | 6:17:44 | 6:17:49 | |
way. I thank him for giving way and
congratulate him on securing this | 6:17:49 | 6:17:57 | |
debate and commend them for the work
he has done in highlighting problems | 6:17:57 | 6:18:04 | |
with Universal Credit. The
Chancellor's budget was an admission | 6:18:04 | 6:18:09 | |
that Universal Credit was failing
some of the people he mentions. Does | 6:18:09 | 6:18:13 | |
he think the Government needs to
address the real issues at the heart | 6:18:13 | 6:18:17 | |
of Universal Credit? Absolutely, we
all accepted the principle of a | 6:18:17 | 6:18:24 | |
simple benefit and the move to a
single payment at that | 6:18:24 | 6:18:29 | |
simplification doesn't work if it's
not simple for users, if it becomes | 6:18:29 | 6:18:34 | |
complex, which is what we have, and
as my honourable friend pointed out, | 6:18:34 | 6:18:41 | |
I have been raising issues around
Universal Credit since 2013 as the | 6:18:41 | 6:18:47 | |
then leader of Highland Council when
we took it through the pilot onto | 6:18:47 | 6:18:51 | |
live service and then finally on to
full service roll-out. In that time | 6:18:51 | 6:18:57 | |
we have reported the problems thrown
up by this. None of it, until recent | 6:18:57 | 6:19:03 | |
weeks, has been taken on board, and
as my honourable friend has pointed | 6:19:03 | 6:19:08 | |
out, we have seen a grudging
admission from the Government that | 6:19:08 | 6:19:12 | |
there are problems, and the Minister
has a chance tonight to fix some of | 6:19:12 | 6:19:18 | |
the other areas where it is broken.
Prior to Universal Credit being | 6:19:18 | 6:19:24 | |
introduced, personal independence
payments had a specified line to | 6:19:24 | 6:19:27 | |
call for those who work terminally
ill. Claimants had their payments | 6:19:27 | 6:19:33 | |
processed quickly, they could be
made weekly, implicit consent was | 6:19:33 | 6:19:40 | |
available, giving supporting
organisations the authority to make | 6:19:40 | 6:19:43 | |
claims on behalf of a terminally ill
claimant. Many terminally ill people | 6:19:43 | 6:19:48 | |
did not want to be told if they are
dying. This payment allowed them | 6:19:48 | 6:19:56 | |
some consideration and dignity. I
think the honourable gentleman for | 6:19:56 | 6:20:04 | |
asking for the intervention, but
also for bringing this matter to the | 6:20:04 | 6:20:09 | |
House. Would you agree that in the
same way that PLA had special rules | 6:20:09 | 6:20:15 | |
for the terminally ill, there has to
be compassionate grounds in | 6:20:15 | 6:20:19 | |
Universal Credit that can be adapted
to individual circumstances because | 6:20:19 | 6:20:26 | |
each person has circumstances
specific to themselves. I would like | 6:20:26 | 6:20:31 | |
to underline that further. In my
part I held a universal problem | 6:20:31 | 6:20:36 | |
summit to challenge the accusations
coming from those benches about | 6:20:36 | 6:20:42 | |
scaremongering and I invited every
story MP and indeed the price | 6:20:42 | 6:20:48 | |
Minister to come to Inverness to
hear testimony from agencies and | 6:20:48 | 6:20:54 | |
claimants about the problems of
Universal Credit. Had they attended, | 6:20:54 | 6:20:58 | |
they would have heard from the case
worker at the Highland Macmillan | 6:20:58 | 6:21:04 | |
Citizens' Advice bureau partnership,
who has been dealing with Universal | 6:21:04 | 6:21:09 | |
Credit cases for cancer patients and
the terminally ill. She describes | 6:21:09 | 6:21:15 | |
herself as, through the number of
claimants and the difficulties she | 6:21:15 | 6:21:18 | |
is having, as battle weary and
non-with the number and type of | 6:21:18 | 6:21:25 | |
claims coming forward, the fact
people are dying before their claims | 6:21:25 | 6:21:29 | |
are processed. She talked about a
claimant diagnosed with cancer, not | 6:21:29 | 6:21:35 | |
knowing the outcome of her claim,
with no support for six weeks, but | 6:21:35 | 6:21:41 | |
it took three months to get payment
and when it came through it was | 6:21:41 | 6:21:47 | |
wrong, and a £500 deduction was made
for another benefit that was never | 6:21:47 | 6:21:51 | |
even claimed. Another claimant
misted deadline, her blue badge was | 6:21:51 | 6:21:59 | |
lost and her mum's carer 's
allowance was taken away and it was | 6:21:59 | 6:22:03 | |
hard to sort that out. Go one's dad
was told there was nothing more that | 6:22:03 | 6:22:10 | |
doctors could do in April 2016. He
received two points, eight points | 6:22:10 | 6:22:16 | |
are needed for the standard rate.
The rules suggested the probability | 6:22:16 | 6:22:22 | |
of dying could be expected within
six months, then the claimant could | 6:22:22 | 6:22:26 | |
apply under special rules, but with
the doctor saying it could be a | 6:22:26 | 6:22:31 | |
month or a year, it was unclear
whether these rules would be an | 6:22:31 | 6:22:36 | |
option as doctors could not say
whether death was likely in six | 6:22:36 | 6:22:39 | |
months. Imagine that discussion.
21's dad and the family had not come | 6:22:39 | 6:22:49 | |
to terms with her prognosis so
couldn't claim under the special | 6:22:49 | 6:22:52 | |
rules. The process was difficult and
stressful as the special rules | 6:22:52 | 6:22:59 | |
option was not available and the
application had to be handled in an | 6:22:59 | 6:23:03 | |
usual way and the mobility card was
taken away, leaving 21's dad unable | 6:23:03 | 6:23:10 | |
to attend medical appointments or
get shopping due to the rural | 6:23:10 | 6:23:13 | |
location. Joanne also sat in
face-to-face assessments with her | 6:23:13 | 6:23:20 | |
dad and described the experience as
awful, saying, they pushed my dad | 6:23:20 | 6:23:25 | |
until he gave the answer they
wanted. When asked if he could walk | 6:23:25 | 6:23:30 | |
50 yards he said no, so he was asked
again if he could do it even if it | 6:23:30 | 6:23:36 | |
would take a long time. When he
again said no, he was told if it was | 6:23:36 | 6:23:42 | |
an emergency and he had to walk it,
could he do it, so he felt so | 6:23:42 | 6:23:48 | |
pressurised that he said yes. The
overview said he could reasonably | 6:23:48 | 6:23:52 | |
walk 50 yards. The assessment
process is humiliating and | 6:23:52 | 6:23:59 | |
degrading, putting claimants in the
position where they often feel bad | 6:23:59 | 6:24:03 | |
about not being able to carry out
certain tasks and even asking for | 6:24:03 | 6:24:08 | |
additional assistance in the form of
benefits. I hope no one here for | 6:24:08 | 6:24:14 | |
watching is ever faced with being
diagnosed with cancer or motor | 6:24:14 | 6:24:18 | |
neurone disease or any other
terminal illness, yet it happens | 6:24:18 | 6:24:23 | |
every day and it must be shattering,
not only for those diagnosed but for | 6:24:23 | 6:24:29 | |
their families. I imagine the last
thing on their minds would be going | 6:24:29 | 6:24:35 | |
through the hoops to get the basic
financial support that they need, | 6:24:35 | 6:24:40 | |
yet that is what Universal Credit in
its current form means. I mentioned | 6:24:40 | 6:24:46 | |
the MND Association, they put fraud
the proposition that this is a | 6:24:46 | 6:24:53 | |
devastating and fatal disease, which
goes through the brain and central | 6:24:53 | 6:25:00 | |
nervous system, leaving people
trapped in a failing body, unable to | 6:25:00 | 6:25:05 | |
move, walk, talk or swallow and
eventually breathe. It kills one | 6:25:05 | 6:25:09 | |
third of people in the first year
and more than half within two years. | 6:25:09 | 6:25:14 | |
A small number survived longer.
People with MND and other terminal | 6:25:14 | 6:25:21 | |
illnesses face significant financial
burdens with the estimate being put | 6:25:21 | 6:25:26 | |
at a cost of an extra £12,000 per
year. Universal Credit needs to work | 6:25:26 | 6:25:32 | |
smoothly for the terminally ill. If
it doesn't, when it doesn't and | 6:25:32 | 6:25:42 | |
Universal Credit doesn't, there is
nothing like it for causing stress. | 6:25:42 | 6:25:49 | |
They shouldn't need to suffer
delays, stress and a financial | 6:25:49 | 6:25:54 | |
burden is the last thing they should
be asked to face. It should be easy | 6:25:54 | 6:25:59 | |
but not everyone can use the online
portal. Many cannot type. Completing | 6:25:59 | 6:26:07 | |
an online application described by
those assisting as arduous, | 6:26:07 | 6:26:12 | |
time-consuming and often requiring
help, yet this help is only | 6:26:12 | 6:26:17 | |
available by telephone,
inappropriate for anyone who was | 6:26:17 | 6:26:19 | |
unable to speak. The severe
disability premium has been | 6:26:19 | 6:26:25 | |
abolished under Universal Credit,
costing disabled adults £22 a week. | 6:26:25 | 6:26:37 | |
The enhanced disability premium was
abolished under Universal Credit, | 6:26:37 | 6:26:44 | |
costing disabled adults £15.90 a
week. The stipulation that claimants | 6:26:44 | 6:26:49 | |
could only apply under special rules
if death could be expected in six | 6:26:49 | 6:26:56 | |
months does not work for many with
terminal illness. Health | 6:26:56 | 6:27:01 | |
professionals are often confused
about whether they should sign the | 6:27:01 | 6:27:05 | |
form. This means people often don't
get the swift support they badly | 6:27:05 | 6:27:11 | |
need and whether or not people are
applying under special rules, there | 6:27:11 | 6:27:16 | |
is no journey specific to claimants
with vulnerabilities, especially the | 6:27:16 | 6:27:25 | |
ternary L, so these questions are
all work focused interviews and that | 6:27:25 | 6:27:34 | |
is clearly insensitive. Some people
do not want their doctor to tell | 6:27:34 | 6:27:39 | |
them they are dying and it is cruel
to ask them to self certify their | 6:27:39 | 6:27:46 | |
fate, cruel and unnecessary, so I
would ask the Minister Sam asks that | 6:27:46 | 6:27:51 | |
I believe he can agree to given the
relatively low number of terminally | 6:27:51 | 6:27:57 | |
ill claimants and these would be
either low or no cost. Port | 6:27:57 | 6:28:01 | |
terminally ill people, remove the
waiting time. It should not be | 6:28:01 | 6:28:06 | |
there. Make the application simpler.
It should be easy to do that for | 6:28:06 | 6:28:14 | |
this limited number of people.
Provide direct support or give | 6:28:14 | 6:28:21 | |
implicit consent for agencies to do
that on the behalf of claimants. | 6:28:21 | 6:28:27 | |
Reinstate the severe disability
allowance for terminally ill people, | 6:28:27 | 6:28:32 | |
and the enhanced disability premium.
Provide a specific journey for the | 6:28:32 | 6:28:38 | |
terminally ill and special rules.
Allow the DS 1500 to be submitted | 6:28:38 | 6:28:45 | |
without explicit consent, with the
explicit consent for third parties, | 6:28:45 | 6:28:54 | |
and finally, and most easily to get
rid of the cruel requirement for | 6:28:54 | 6:28:58 | |
self certification. Thank you, Mr
Deputy Speaker, and I congratulate | 6:28:58 | 6:29:08 | |
the honourable gentleman for
securing this debate on this | 6:29:08 | 6:29:16 | |
important aspect. These are very
difficult situations we are | 6:29:16 | 6:29:23 | |
discussing and we must treat them
with the highest level of | 6:29:23 | 6:29:26 | |
sensitivity. If I may, I will first
set out the recently announced | 6:29:26 | 6:29:33 | |
changes to Universal Credit, which
apply across all recipients, and | 6:29:33 | 6:29:39 | |
then address specific points the
honourable member has made. | 6:29:39 | 6:29:45 | |
We continue to roll out Universal
Credit gradually, constantly | 6:29:45 | 6:29:48 | |
improving the way the system works
as we do and I'm sure honourable and | 6:29:48 | 6:29:52 | |
right honourable member is across
the house will welcome the changes | 6:29:52 | 6:29:56 | |
to Universal Credit my right
honourable friend, the Secretary of | 6:29:56 | 6:30:00 | |
State for Work and Pensions
announced in his statement to the | 6:30:00 | 6:30:03 | |
house last Thursday. Next month new
guidance will be issued to staff to | 6:30:03 | 6:30:05 | |
ensure that claimants in the private
rented sector who have housing | 6:30:05 | 6:30:11 | |
payments directly to landlords will
have that option for Universal | 6:30:11 | 6:30:15 | |
Credit. From January we make two
changes to advances, first the | 6:30:15 | 6:30:20 | |
period in which advances is
recovered will be from six to 12 | 6:30:20 | 6:30:25 | |
months making it easier for
claimants to manage finances, that | 6:30:25 | 6:30:28 | |
will apply regardless to the level
of advance claimed. And secondly we | 6:30:28 | 6:30:33 | |
are increasing the amounts of
support a claimant can receive | 6:30:33 | 6:30:35 | |
through that from up to 50% of their
estimated entitlement to up to 100%, | 6:30:35 | 6:30:42 | |
which is interest-free. If someone
is in immediate need we can fast | 6:30:42 | 6:30:46 | |
track payments then they will
receive them on the same day. In | 6:30:46 | 6:30:48 | |
practice it means new claimants in
December could already receive an | 6:30:48 | 6:30:54 | |
advance of up to 50% of their
estimated overall entitlement and | 6:30:54 | 6:30:59 | |
they receive a second advance to
take it up to 100% in the New Year. | 6:30:59 | 6:31:04 | |
Taken with the first scheduled
payment, that means that claimants | 6:31:04 | 6:31:08 | |
in need could receive nearly double
the amount in cash they previously | 6:31:08 | 6:31:13 | |
received over that period. In
addition, from spring next year we | 6:31:13 | 6:31:16 | |
would make it possible to apply
online for an increase in | 6:31:16 | 6:31:22 | |
accessibility for those who need it
and in February and we will remove | 6:31:22 | 6:31:26 | |
the seven-day waiting period,
reducing the length of time | 6:31:26 | 6:31:29 | |
claimants will wait to receive their
first full payment. For new | 6:31:29 | 6:31:34 | |
claimants already receiving support
towards their housing costs, we will | 6:31:34 | 6:31:37 | |
provide an additional payment of two
weeks of their housing benefits to | 6:31:37 | 6:31:41 | |
support them as they transition to
Universal Credit, helping to address | 6:31:41 | 6:31:46 | |
the issue of rent arrears for those
who most needed. It's important that | 6:31:46 | 6:31:55 | |
I explain that the Personal
Independence Payments, PIP, is a | 6:31:55 | 6:31:57 | |
separate payment to Universal Credit
and will continue to be paid weekly | 6:31:57 | 6:32:04 | |
in advance to provide important
financial support to help meet the | 6:32:04 | 6:32:10 | |
additional costs of disability for
those in the latter stages of their | 6:32:10 | 6:32:15 | |
life. PIP is not taken into account
when assessing entitlement to | 6:32:15 | 6:32:20 | |
Universal Credit. To be clear, PIP
is not the benefit replaced by | 6:32:20 | 6:32:25 | |
Universal Credit. PIP and Universal
Credit are not comparable as they | 6:32:25 | 6:32:31 | |
are not intended for the same thing.
Income related ESA, employment | 6:32:31 | 6:32:37 | |
support allowance, and the link to
disability premiums, including | 6:32:37 | 6:32:41 | |
severe disability premiums, are
being replaced by Universal Credit | 6:32:41 | 6:32:45 | |
as part of the process of
simplifying the benefits processes | 6:32:45 | 6:32:49 | |
and helping to address overlaps.
Universal Credit has two disability | 6:32:49 | 6:32:54 | |
elements for adults to mirror the
design of ESA and the higher rate is | 6:32:54 | 6:33:00 | |
at a substantially higher level than
the equivalent support group level | 6:33:00 | 6:33:05 | |
in ESA. And by structuring the rate
in this way, the government has made | 6:33:05 | 6:33:10 | |
clear it is not looking to make
savings. Transitional protection | 6:33:10 | 6:33:14 | |
will also be provided for claimants
who move on to Universal Credit as a | 6:33:14 | 6:33:18 | |
result of DWP, if they haven't had a
change of circumstances. Madam | 6:33:18 | 6:33:28 | |
Deputy Speaker, we will continue to
listen and act on feedback as we | 6:33:28 | 6:33:34 | |
roll out Universal Credit and I
regret to say that in any benefit | 6:33:34 | 6:33:38 | |
system, mistakes can be made. As I
say it is a matter of regret but | 6:33:38 | 6:33:43 | |
when errors happen, I am sorry. We
recognise of course that people with | 6:33:43 | 6:33:47 | |
health conditions or disabilities
face extra challenges in their | 6:33:47 | 6:33:53 | |
lives. People who may be dealing
with more than one condition of | 6:33:53 | 6:33:58 | |
disability at any time and the same
conditions can, of course, affect | 6:33:58 | 6:34:02 | |
different people in different ways.
If the Minister would allow me to | 6:34:02 | 6:34:11 | |
intervene, I would like to clarify
if he will take on board some of the | 6:34:11 | 6:34:14 | |
specific points that I raised, that
were easy to do and would cost | 6:34:14 | 6:34:18 | |
nothing specifically. The issues
around self certification, that | 6:34:18 | 6:34:23 | |
there were other points in there. I
made which are very easy to deliver. | 6:34:23 | 6:34:28 | |
Would he consider of those? Mr
Deputy Speaker, if he would allow me | 6:34:28 | 6:34:34 | |
to go on, as we roll out Universal
Credit we are committed to ensuring | 6:34:34 | 6:34:41 | |
that terminally ill patients are
treated with the utmost sensitivity | 6:34:41 | 6:34:46 | |
and receive the support that they
need to make a claim to Universal | 6:34:46 | 6:34:49 | |
Credit. It may be helpful if I
briefly set out to the house how the | 6:34:49 | 6:34:54 | |
claim process works in the legacy
benefit system. In that system, it | 6:34:54 | 6:34:59 | |
additional financial support can be
obtained by someone who is | 6:34:59 | 6:35:04 | |
terminally ill and this is a manual
process that requires an application | 6:35:04 | 6:35:10 | |
through a telephone call or a
paper-based form. As part of the | 6:35:10 | 6:35:14 | |
process, the claimant is asked if
they would like to apply for the | 6:35:14 | 6:35:19 | |
employment and support allowance,
and that is someone with a terminal | 6:35:19 | 6:35:29 | |
illness with less than six months
prognosis. They are asked to provide | 6:35:29 | 6:35:34 | |
evidence from a GP or medical
practitioner confirming this and if | 6:35:34 | 6:35:38 | |
they have already provided medical
evidence to another part of DWP, the | 6:35:38 | 6:35:42 | |
Department will confirm this and
make a referral to an expedited work | 6:35:42 | 6:35:47 | |
capability assessor which is
entirely clerical, a review of | 6:35:47 | 6:35:52 | |
papers. The health care professional
will provide a report within 48 | 6:35:52 | 6:35:56 | |
hours referring to the claimants
prognosis who can provide financial | 6:35:56 | 6:36:04 | |
support by referring the claimant to
the support group. Universal Credit | 6:36:04 | 6:36:09 | |
full service is designed to be
accessed and claimed for online but | 6:36:09 | 6:36:12 | |
a claim can be made over the phone
or a home visit can be arranged if | 6:36:12 | 6:36:18 | |
needed, Universal Credit has a
similar process in place to support | 6:36:18 | 6:36:22 | |
claimants when they have been
diagnosed as terminally ill and to | 6:36:22 | 6:36:26 | |
make sure that additional support is
provided as quickly as possible. I | 6:36:26 | 6:36:31 | |
am aware of the concerns raised by
the honourable gentleman about the | 6:36:31 | 6:36:36 | |
process of notifying DWP about a
claimant's terminal illness but I do | 6:36:36 | 6:36:40 | |
not need to change the consent rules
of Universal Credit to support these | 6:36:40 | 6:36:44 | |
claimants. We can already accept
information directly from claimant | 6:36:44 | 6:36:49 | |
representatives such as claimant
appointees and third-party | 6:36:49 | 6:36:52 | |
organisations representing the
claimant. However we are also aware | 6:36:52 | 6:36:58 | |
that there are instances where it is
not happening as intended in some | 6:36:58 | 6:37:02 | |
circumstances, and we are working
hard to ensure the system works | 6:37:02 | 6:37:08 | |
properly, and that all necessary
guidance and procedures are in place | 6:37:08 | 6:37:11 | |
to support terminally ill claimants
and help operational staff to assist | 6:37:11 | 6:37:15 | |
them. As part of the training that
our staff receive, they are made | 6:37:15 | 6:37:20 | |
aware that claimants may not know
their prognosis and condition and | 6:37:20 | 6:37:24 | |
should not be recording or repairing
to the nature or detail of their | 6:37:24 | 6:37:28 | |
condition on the full-service
journal or in discussions unless | 6:37:28 | 6:37:32 | |
requested by the claimant. Our
approach is, and always has been, | 6:37:32 | 6:37:37 | |
that we insure terminally ill
claimants are treated sensitively | 6:37:37 | 6:37:40 | |
and with empathy at all times. When
a claim is made to Universal Credit | 6:37:40 | 6:37:45 | |
with a claimant who is Tam Dalyell,
we want to ensure that the claimants | 6:37:45 | 6:37:51 | |
receive any eligible additional
financial support as quickly as | 6:37:51 | 6:37:54 | |
possible. To make sure this happens
quickly, the claimant may have a | 6:37:54 | 6:38:02 | |
terminal illness. We have always
made this with ESA claimants be | 6:38:02 | 6:38:06 | |
using terminology of special rules
that you mention, I must stress that | 6:38:06 | 6:38:11 | |
the two questions are the same, but
we change the wording to make it | 6:38:11 | 6:38:16 | |
clear to the individual that people
who want to get the support to which | 6:38:16 | 6:38:21 | |
they are entitled and which they
need, this is with new and existing | 6:38:21 | 6:38:26 | |
claims and a change of
circumstances. Where somebody | 6:38:26 | 6:38:30 | |
presents with such an illness, they
are given the option of continuing | 6:38:30 | 6:38:35 | |
with providing further information
themselves or receiving support from | 6:38:35 | 6:38:39 | |
the DWP to do this. Where they
indicate they would like support, it | 6:38:39 | 6:38:42 | |
becomes a high priority task for the
case manager to telephone the | 6:38:42 | 6:38:49 | |
claimant to complete the information
gathered on their behalf, a home | 6:38:49 | 6:38:52 | |
visit can also be arranged. The most
unusual evidences by providing the | 6:38:52 | 6:39:00 | |
form that the honourable gentleman
reference, issued for DWP by a | 6:39:00 | 6:39:08 | |
health care professional to be
claimant or their representative. We | 6:39:08 | 6:39:11 | |
check our systems immediately and as
a matter of course to see if they | 6:39:11 | 6:39:15 | |
already hold a DS 1500 submitted as
part of another claim. When already | 6:39:15 | 6:39:21 | |
held, we reuse this Universal
Credit. Receipt of this information | 6:39:21 | 6:39:26 | |
indicates to us that the claimant
must have immediate access to DWP | 6:39:26 | 6:39:31 | |
support. The support immediately
results in an additional amount of | 6:39:31 | 6:39:38 | |
the £318.76 per month included in
the Universal Credit entitlement. | 6:39:38 | 6:39:42 | |
The additional amount is payable
from the start of day one of their | 6:39:42 | 6:39:45 | |
claim. In addition, the claimant is
completely removed from any | 6:39:45 | 6:39:49 | |
conditionality requirements. The
Department and the Universal Credit | 6:39:49 | 6:39:54 | |
programme have regular meetings with
charities like Macmillan Cancer | 6:39:54 | 6:40:00 | |
Support to understand how policies
are working and to identify and | 6:40:00 | 6:40:03 | |
discuss potential areas for
improvement. I also recognise that | 6:40:03 | 6:40:09 | |
he has encountered Universal Credit
claimants who have had issues with | 6:40:09 | 6:40:14 | |
the service in this constituency
and, as I acknowledged earlier, | 6:40:14 | 6:40:17 | |
things can go wrong and when they
do, I'm sorry for that. Where cases | 6:40:17 | 6:40:25 | |
involve vulnerable claimants, it's
particularly important that they are | 6:40:25 | 6:40:29 | |
escalated, investigated and quickly
resolved but I am aware that he has | 6:40:29 | 6:40:33 | |
a direct relationship with the
Scotland complaint resolution team, | 6:40:33 | 6:40:36 | |
as well as with our local operations
team, which has helped manage a | 6:40:36 | 6:40:43 | |
number of urgent cases to be
successful in being solved. We have | 6:40:43 | 6:40:51 | |
Universal Credit available in job
centres and we are continuing to | 6:40:51 | 6:40:58 | |
review and further develop the
customer journey for those with | 6:40:58 | 6:41:02 | |
complex needs and how we support
terminally ill claimants to engage | 6:41:02 | 6:41:06 | |
in the process and I will welcome
the honourable gentleman bringing | 6:41:06 | 6:41:09 | |
the debate to the floor of the house
today, and raising important issues | 6:41:09 | 6:41:14 | |
that he has. I do recognise that
there are areas for improvement in | 6:41:14 | 6:41:18 | |
this service but the honourable
gentleman has seen for himself, I | 6:41:18 | 6:41:21 | |
believe, the drive, commitment and
passion that so many staff, | 6:41:21 | 6:41:27 | |
stakeholders and people working
across Universal Credit have to see | 6:41:27 | 6:41:30 | |
this important reform through. Thank
you. The question is this house do | 6:41:30 | 6:41:35 | |
now adjourn, as many of the opinion
is a aye? The ayes have it. | 6:41:35 | 6:41:44 |