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will be very happy to discuss what
kind of feedback we can get from the | 0:00:00 | 0:00:02 | |
department as soon as possible.
Statement, the parliamentary | 0:00:02 | 0:00:09 | |
undersecretary of state for care and
mental health. Minister Jackie Doyle | 0:00:09 | 0:00:15 | |
Price. Thank you. This oral
statement is the government's | 0:00:15 | 0:00:22 | |
responds to the recent opposition
they debate on social care on | 0:00:22 | 0:00:27 | |
Wednesday the 25th of October. Since
the debate, the government announced | 0:00:27 | 0:00:31 | |
further plans for the Green paper on
care and support for older people on | 0:00:31 | 0:00:34 | |
the 16th of November. This oral
statement reiterates the substance | 0:00:34 | 0:00:38 | |
of that announcement while providing
further detail to the House and some | 0:00:38 | 0:00:44 | |
specific areas. An ageing Society
means we need to reach a longer-term | 0:00:44 | 0:00:48 | |
sustainability settlement for social
care, which is why the government is | 0:00:48 | 0:00:53 | |
committed to publishing a green
paper by 2018 setting out its | 0:00:53 | 0:00:58 | |
proposals for reform. And
interministerial group is overseeing | 0:00:58 | 0:01:01 | |
the work. This builds on the
additional £2 billion over the next | 0:01:01 | 0:01:05 | |
three years we have already provided
to meet social care needs. In | 0:01:05 | 0:01:09 | |
developing the Green paper it is
right we take the time needed to | 0:01:09 | 0:01:12 | |
debate the many complex issues and
listen to the perspective of experts | 0:01:12 | 0:01:18 | |
and key users building consensus
around reforms that can succeed. | 0:01:18 | 0:01:21 | |
This is why we are starting a
process of initial engagement over | 0:01:21 | 0:01:25 | |
the coming months through which the
government will work with experts, | 0:01:25 | 0:01:29 | |
stakeholders and users, to shape
long-term reforms proposed in the | 0:01:29 | 0:01:33 | |
Green paper. The government has
asked independent experts to provide | 0:01:33 | 0:01:37 | |
their views, including the two most
recent reviews on social care. We're | 0:01:37 | 0:01:45 | |
also engaging closely with key
stakeholders and people who use | 0:01:45 | 0:01:50 | |
services and their carers.
Government will be hosting a number | 0:01:50 | 0:01:53 | |
of round tables to hear a range of
perspectives representing different | 0:01:53 | 0:01:59 | |
constituencies including service
recipients, providers, health | 0:01:59 | 0:02:03 | |
services, financial services
providers, local government and | 0:02:03 | 0:02:05 | |
working age adults. Once the Green
paper is published, it will be | 0:02:05 | 0:02:12 | |
subject to full public consultation.
The government has also recognise | 0:02:12 | 0:02:15 | |
there is broad agreement across
Parliament that reform social care | 0:02:15 | 0:02:21 | |
is a priority, and is looking
forward to hearing many dues. We | 0:02:21 | 0:02:25 | |
have written to cheers of relevant
all party parliamentary groups to | 0:02:25 | 0:02:30 | |
discuss their priorities and
perspectives on reform. The Prime | 0:02:30 | 0:02:34 | |
Minister has been clear that the
consultation will include proposals | 0:02:34 | 0:02:37 | |
to place a limit on the care costs
individuals face. To allow for full | 0:02:37 | 0:02:42 | |
of engagement and development of the
approach, we will not be taking | 0:02:42 | 0:02:51 | |
forward the previous government's
plans to implement a cap on care | 0:02:51 | 0:02:55 | |
costs in 2020. | 0:02:55 | 0:02:59 | |
Further details on the Government's
plans will be set that after we have | 0:02:59 | 0:03:03 | |
consulted on the options. The Green
paper will focus primarily on the | 0:03:03 | 0:03:07 | |
care for older people but will
consider elements of the adult care | 0:03:07 | 0:03:13 | |
system regarding all recipients of
social care. We are committed to | 0:03:13 | 0:03:17 | |
ensure that people with disabilities
and complex conditions are able to | 0:03:17 | 0:03:20 | |
live healthy, independent lives and
able to participate fully in | 0:03:20 | 0:03:25 | |
society. Many of the questions and
issues about the sustainability of | 0:03:25 | 0:03:29 | |
the care system will be relevant to
adults of all ages. To ensure these | 0:03:29 | 0:03:37 | |
issues are considered in their own
right, the Government has committed | 0:03:37 | 0:03:39 | |
to bringing forward a parallel
programme of work that is being led | 0:03:39 | 0:03:45 | |
jointly by the Department of health
and Department of communities and | 0:03:45 | 0:03:48 | |
local of at. This work will also be
overseen by the interministerial | 0:03:48 | 0:03:52 | |
group to ensure close alignment with
the Green paper. Of course, carers | 0:03:52 | 0:03:56 | |
are a vital set of partners in the
health and social care system and it | 0:03:56 | 0:04:01 | |
would not make any sense to pursue
strategic issues related to carers | 0:04:01 | 0:04:05 | |
in isolation from the wider work on
the future of social care and they | 0:04:05 | 0:04:10 | |
will therefore be a key part of the
Green paper. A sustainable | 0:04:10 | 0:04:15 | |
settlement for social care will not
be possible without focusing on how | 0:04:15 | 0:04:20 | |
our Society supports carers. The
called Riverdance carers in 2016 are | 0:04:20 | 0:04:27 | |
central to any proposals for the
wider social care system -- the call | 0:04:27 | 0:04:34 | |
for guidance on. We must continue to
improve the work and expense of | 0:04:34 | 0:04:37 | |
carers today and the Government
remains fully committed to do so in | 0:04:37 | 0:04:42 | |
a way they would wish and in a way
that supports their own health and | 0:04:42 | 0:04:45 | |
well-being, their employment and
their life chances. So ahead of the | 0:04:45 | 0:04:50 | |
Green paper's publication, the
Department of Health will also be | 0:04:50 | 0:04:53 | |
publishing an action plan for carers
in the New Year, setting priorities | 0:04:53 | 0:04:57 | |
for a cross Government programme of
work to support carers over the next | 0:04:57 | 0:05:00 | |
two years. In the short and
medium-term, we are taking important | 0:05:00 | 0:05:04 | |
to ensure we stable adult care
sector. We are supporting adequate | 0:05:04 | 0:05:12 | |
great across the system and
supporting the network and services | 0:05:12 | 0:05:15 | |
that keep people living
independently belong. It is | 0:05:15 | 0:05:18 | |
important to recognise that quality
across the adult social care sector | 0:05:18 | 0:05:21 | |
remains good overall. The October
2017 state of care report from the | 0:05:21 | 0:05:26 | |
CQC found that 80% of adult social
care settings had been rated as good | 0:05:26 | 0:05:34 | |
and outstanding. However, the CQC
also underlined there are | 0:05:34 | 0:05:37 | |
substantial variations in the
quality of care depending on where | 0:05:37 | 0:05:39 | |
people live. Department of health is
also working with the adult social | 0:05:39 | 0:05:45 | |
care sector to implement quality
matters, a shared commitment to take | 0:05:45 | 0:05:49 | |
action to achieve high-quality
patient centred adult social care. | 0:05:49 | 0:05:55 | |
Through our programme sector led
improvement, we are supporting | 0:05:55 | 0:05:58 | |
councils to make savings and
improved services by promoting good | 0:05:58 | 0:06:02 | |
practice, including new approaches.
Looking beyond social care | 0:06:02 | 0:06:08 | |
provision, it is vital to help the
broader supporting services that | 0:06:08 | 0:06:13 | |
help people live longer. This means
that well adapted and specialised | 0:06:13 | 0:06:18 | |
housing is becoming increasingly
important and the disability grant | 0:06:18 | 0:06:22 | |
is to help meet the cost of adapting
a property for a person with a | 0:06:22 | 0:06:29 | |
disability or support need. The
budget this year provided an | 0:06:29 | 0:06:34 | |
additional £42 million for the rest
of the financial year, taking | 0:06:34 | 0:06:37 | |
funding for this year to 440 back at
a rate £473 million. This ain't a | 0:06:37 | 0:06:46 | |
better system everyone can have
confidence in where all people | 0:06:46 | 0:06:51 | |
understand their responsibilities,
where all can prepare for their | 0:06:51 | 0:06:53 | |
future and the care they receive
will be to a high standard and help | 0:06:53 | 0:06:56 | |
them maintain their independence and
well-being. This Government wants to | 0:06:56 | 0:07:01 | |
take the time to consult and build
consensus on a long-term sustainable | 0:07:01 | 0:07:04 | |
settlement for the future which
includes looking at the quality of | 0:07:04 | 0:07:08 | |
care being delivered, the funding of
the system and how it will be paid | 0:07:08 | 0:07:11 | |
for in the round. I thank the
Minister for giving me an advance | 0:07:11 | 0:07:19 | |
sight of her statement. But her
statement is a woefully inadequate | 0:07:19 | 0:07:23 | |
response to the Opposition Day
debate we held in this place on | 0:07:23 | 0:07:27 | |
Wednesday the 25th of October. It in
no way addresses the motion passed | 0:07:27 | 0:07:31 | |
by this House. That motion called on
the Government to note the | 0:07:31 | 0:07:36 | |
Conservative Party's manifesto
commitment to a funding proposal for | 0:07:36 | 0:07:40 | |
social care which would have no cap
on care costs and would include the | 0:07:40 | 0:07:44 | |
value of homes in the means test for
care at home and we called on the | 0:07:44 | 0:07:48 | |
Government not to proceed with their
commitment to those proposals. The | 0:07:48 | 0:07:51 | |
Minister has today finally confirmed
what many on these benches | 0:07:51 | 0:07:54 | |
suspected, that they will not be
proceeding with their plans to cap | 0:07:54 | 0:07:58 | |
care costs by 2020 as legislated by
this House. This is a shameful waste | 0:07:58 | 0:08:04 | |
of taxpayers' money, over £1 million
in today's money was spent | 0:08:04 | 0:08:08 | |
commissioning the deal not review
and it is a waste of Parliamentary | 0:08:08 | 0:08:13 | |
time enacting that cap and it is no
good the Minister saying the | 0:08:13 | 0:08:16 | |
Government are consulting on this
cap. They consulted on this during | 0:08:16 | 0:08:20 | |
the general election and their
proposals were rejected by the | 0:08:20 | 0:08:22 | |
electorate. Meanwhile, many people,
very many people, are still faced | 0:08:22 | 0:08:28 | |
with the catastrophic costs of
paying for their care. Our | 0:08:28 | 0:08:32 | |
Opposition Day debate motion also
called on the Government to remove | 0:08:32 | 0:08:35 | |
the threat to withdraw social care
funding and stop fines on local | 0:08:35 | 0:08:40 | |
authorities for delayed transfers of
care. During the debate, I talked | 0:08:40 | 0:08:45 | |
about how ministers had previously
threatened councils with fines and | 0:08:45 | 0:08:48 | |
further funding cuts to social care,
if targets for cutting delayed | 0:08:48 | 0:08:53 | |
transfers of care could not be met.
Fines for targets for half -- that | 0:08:53 | 0:08:59 | |
half of social care directors
believe are unrealistic so can the | 0:08:59 | 0:09:02 | |
Government confirmed they have
listened to the will of the house to | 0:09:02 | 0:09:05 | |
stop these fines, which merely
threaten to make the crisis in | 0:09:05 | 0:09:09 | |
social care worse? And the
Opposition Day debate motion also | 0:09:09 | 0:09:12 | |
called on the Government to commit
to the extra funding needed to close | 0:09:12 | 0:09:16 | |
the social care funding gap for 2017
and for the remaining years of this | 0:09:16 | 0:09:21 | |
Parliament. At no point today has
the Minister confirmed how the | 0:09:21 | 0:09:25 | |
Government intends to enact the will
of this House in meeting the funding | 0:09:25 | 0:09:29 | |
gap and, of course, shamefully,
there was no mention of social care | 0:09:29 | 0:09:31 | |
in the recent budget. Our social
care system remains in a perilous | 0:09:31 | 0:09:36 | |
state because of the cuts that this
Government has chosen to make. The | 0:09:36 | 0:09:41 | |
Care Quality Commission has told us
the social care system still remains | 0:09:41 | 0:09:43 | |
at a tipping point. So can the
Minister now confirm the Government | 0:09:43 | 0:09:49 | |
will enact the will of this House
and meet the funding gap. The | 0:09:49 | 0:09:53 | |
Minister in her statement addressed
the Government's decision to include | 0:09:53 | 0:09:55 | |
the views of carers in the upcoming
Green paper and their failure to | 0:09:55 | 0:10:00 | |
respond to the consultation of 6,500
other carers, which has already | 0:10:00 | 0:10:04 | |
taken place. I have mentioned in the
debate and I will say again, Katie | 0:10:04 | 0:10:10 | |
Stiles, a carer and campaigner for
the Motor Neurone Disease | 0:10:10 | 0:10:13 | |
Association, contributed to that and
hope her voice would be heard. She | 0:10:13 | 0:10:18 | |
told me not publishing the National
care strategy has made me extremely | 0:10:18 | 0:10:22 | |
angry. It sends a message that
carers' lives are unimportant, a | 0:10:22 | 0:10:26 | |
message that the Government thinks
we can carry on as we are and it | 0:10:26 | 0:10:30 | |
sends a message that my own time is
of little worth. Can the Minister | 0:10:30 | 0:10:34 | |
give more details on the scope of
the carers' action plan and can she | 0:10:34 | 0:10:40 | |
reassure 6,500 carers that their
time was not wasted. Mr Dev | 0:10:40 | 0:10:45 | |
disfigure, the Government announced
recently and the Minister confirm | 0:10:45 | 0:10:47 | |
today that working age people with
disabilities would be consulted as | 0:10:47 | 0:10:50 | |
part of a parallel works stream to
the Government's Green paper | 0:10:50 | 0:10:56 | |
consultation. Why a parallel works
stream? This is an extremely | 0:10:56 | 0:11:00 | |
short-sighted approach to reforming
social care, far from looking at the | 0:11:00 | 0:11:04 | |
system in the round. Can she gives
more details about the parallel | 0:11:04 | 0:11:07 | |
works stream for people with
disabilities who have social care | 0:11:07 | 0:11:11 | |
needs? It is clear only a Labour
Government can deliver much-needed | 0:11:11 | 0:11:15 | |
reform to social care. Over the
coming months, we will also consult | 0:11:15 | 0:11:18 | |
experts on how we can move from the
current broken system of care to a | 0:11:18 | 0:11:24 | |
sustainable service for the
long-term. We will look out funding | 0:11:24 | 0:11:28 | |
options for the social care in the
long term, such as a new social care | 0:11:28 | 0:11:33 | |
Levy, an employer care contribution
and wealth taxes. These experts will | 0:11:33 | 0:11:37 | |
help clarify our options for funding
our planned National care service | 0:11:37 | 0:11:42 | |
and our approach will be underpinned
by the principal of pooled risk, so | 0:11:42 | 0:11:48 | |
no one faces catastrophic care costs
as they do now or as they would have | 0:11:48 | 0:11:52 | |
done under the Conservative Party's
early dementia tax proposals. Thank | 0:11:52 | 0:12:00 | |
you, Mr Deputy Speaker. Well, the
honourable lady will not be | 0:12:00 | 0:12:04 | |
surprised that I didn't agree with
much of what she said, but some of | 0:12:04 | 0:12:07 | |
the things, I will address them.
Fundamentally, you know, we are | 0:12:07 | 0:12:13 | |
setting out and it has been long
established, we are setting out how | 0:12:13 | 0:12:16 | |
to get a longer term sustainable
system of funding our social care. | 0:12:16 | 0:12:21 | |
What has been absolutely clear in
the debates over the last year is as | 0:12:21 | 0:12:25 | |
far as the public is concerned,
there is a real lack of | 0:12:25 | 0:12:29 | |
understanding that at present, care
has to be met for by the person | 0:12:29 | 0:12:32 | |
requiring their care. That is what
leads to catastrophic care costs and | 0:12:32 | 0:12:36 | |
that is the dementia tax that she
gives referring to and by having a | 0:12:36 | 0:12:40 | |
cap on overall costs, that is
exactly what we are going to tackle. | 0:12:40 | 0:12:46 | |
But it is very important that in
doing so, we take the public with us | 0:12:46 | 0:12:49 | |
and have a full debate and it
doesn't matter how far we think we | 0:12:49 | 0:12:53 | |
have had that debate in this place
by legislating in the past, it is | 0:12:53 | 0:12:57 | |
quite clear the public don't
understand it, so we are only going | 0:12:57 | 0:13:00 | |
to get public consent for a
long-term solution if we have a | 0:13:00 | 0:13:05 | |
public debate which is handled with
maturity and so far, we haven't seen | 0:13:05 | 0:13:09 | |
very much of that. Now, one of the
issues she also raised was the issue | 0:13:09 | 0:13:15 | |
of carers and their suggestions that
carers' voices aren't being heard in | 0:13:15 | 0:13:20 | |
this debate but I would say very
much, they are. Well, she can sit | 0:13:20 | 0:13:25 | |
there and chanter or listen to the
answer to the question, it is | 0:13:25 | 0:13:27 | |
entirely up to her but it is rather
a waste of time for me coming to | 0:13:27 | 0:13:31 | |
this place if I'm just going to be
talked over. I think I can control | 0:13:31 | 0:13:37 | |
the chamber, but thanks for your
help. I've already told him once, | 0:13:37 | 0:13:40 | |
you don't need to worry. Order. The
whip is well aware he is testing my | 0:13:40 | 0:13:45 | |
patients, so I don't need any help
from the Minister. Carers are very | 0:13:45 | 0:13:50 | |
much being heard but there is in no
way that we can actually tackle the | 0:13:50 | 0:13:55 | |
broad picture of how we fund and how
we manage need in terms of social | 0:13:55 | 0:13:59 | |
care space without properly
comparing the -- considering the | 0:13:59 | 0:14:02 | |
needs of carers. I'm very grateful
to the 6,500 people who participated | 0:14:02 | 0:14:08 | |
to the call for evidence. We have
listened to them and we will | 0:14:08 | 0:14:15 | |
consider what they have said but in
the meantime, it is very important | 0:14:15 | 0:14:21 | |
that we pull together what we have
at present and we will be publishing | 0:14:21 | 0:14:28 | |
that action plan in January of next
year. The issue of working age | 0:14:28 | 0:14:34 | |
adults, to some extent, the
honourable lady is right, there are | 0:14:34 | 0:14:37 | |
some common issues with regards that
affect care for the elderly and | 0:14:37 | 0:14:44 | |
working adults, so those issues that
are in common will be considered as | 0:14:44 | 0:14:47 | |
part of the Green paper process.
There is also at the same time, we | 0:14:47 | 0:14:50 | |
are going through a massive change
in how we are dealing with people | 0:14:50 | 0:14:53 | |
with disabilities. We have very
brave ambition to get more and more | 0:14:53 | 0:14:58 | |
people into work. Through a journey
of getting people with learning | 0:14:58 | 0:15:04 | |
disabilities out of long-term
residential care and into a worker | 0:15:04 | 0:15:07 | |
community and that brings a separate
set of challenges, so that is the | 0:15:07 | 0:15:11 | |
work that will be going on in
parallel. The work in the Green | 0:15:11 | 0:15:14 | |
paper will look at the Commons
systems as well as the specific | 0:15:14 | 0:15:17 | |
areas and care for the elderly. That
is not something we can look at as a | 0:15:17 | 0:15:24 | |
silo, we have got to look at it...
Well, she says it should all be | 0:15:24 | 0:15:27 | |
together but they are very distinct
challenges, care for the elderly and | 0:15:27 | 0:15:32 | |
careful working age adults and I
don't think we should diminish | 0:15:32 | 0:15:35 | |
either constituency by grouping them
altogether. As regards the funding | 0:15:35 | 0:15:40 | |
gap, as she is well aware, we have
made £925 billion available to local | 0:15:40 | 0:15:46 | |
authorities to meet their needs over
these three years, but the reality | 0:15:46 | 0:15:50 | |
is, the way we tackle social care in
this country, so everyone gets the | 0:15:50 | 0:15:55 | |
care they need, as they... As they
will get the care they need as they | 0:15:55 | 0:16:02 | |
come to the later part of their
life, we need to build a longer term | 0:16:02 | 0:16:06 | |
sustainable funding. That is why we
are taking for this debate is part | 0:16:06 | 0:16:10 | |
of the Green paper and I hope that
everyone with an interest in the | 0:16:10 | 0:16:13 | |
subject gets involved in that debate
because we are only going to fix | 0:16:13 | 0:16:16 | |
this long-term if we can take the
public with us. The House of Lords | 0:16:16 | 0:16:23 | |
select committee on the long-term
sustainability of the NHS rapidly | 0:16:23 | 0:16:28 | |
concluded that it would be
impossible to carry out their task | 0:16:28 | 0:16:32 | |
without investigating the
interrelated nature of social care, | 0:16:32 | 0:16:36 | |
and they changed their remit
accordingly. The committee changed | 0:16:36 | 0:16:40 | |
the scope because they recognised
that we would not see a long-term | 0:16:40 | 0:16:45 | |
sustainable solution unless we
address both and I'm afraid the | 0:16:45 | 0:16:49 | |
Green paper that focuses entirely on
social care is going to fail to rise | 0:16:49 | 0:16:52 | |
to the challenge and I would like to
ask the Minister, has she read the | 0:16:52 | 0:16:57 | |
committee's findings? And will she
be prepared as she listens to those, | 0:16:57 | 0:17:04 | |
at an early stage she is consulting
with, if the advice from then is | 0:17:04 | 0:17:08 | |
clearly, as has been the advice from
all commissions that have looked at | 0:17:08 | 0:17:11 | |
this, that they need to consider
both health and social care | 0:17:11 | 0:17:15 | |
together, will she go back to the
drawing board and start again and | 0:17:15 | 0:17:18 | |
look at both health and social care?
Just to reassure my honourable | 0:17:18 | 0:17:27 | |
friend, in terms of the frames of
reference for the Green paper, part | 0:17:27 | 0:17:31 | |
and parcel of getting a long-term
sustainable solution to this is very | 0:17:31 | 0:17:34 | |
much involved in looking at care and
I did point out in the statement | 0:17:34 | 0:17:38 | |
that we need to look at holistic
areas of policy in which to deliver | 0:17:38 | 0:17:42 | |
this, housing being a particular one
because if we get housing conditions | 0:17:42 | 0:17:46 | |
right, we can enable people to live
for longer. But the whole purpose of | 0:17:46 | 0:17:50 | |
having a Green paper and debate is
to make sure we do consider this | 0:17:50 | 0:17:53 | |
issue not as a whole but
holistically. | 0:17:53 | 0:18:01 | |
Can I extend my thanks to the
Under-Secretary of State for | 0:18:01 | 0:18:04 | |
advanced site of the statement. I
hope this is not going to be | 0:18:04 | 0:18:08 | |
something that happens regularly
where we have opposition debates | 0:18:08 | 0:18:10 | |
then months down line the government
sneaks in a statement on a Thursday | 0:18:10 | 0:18:16 | |
morning, I hope this is a one-off.
Can we start looking seriously at | 0:18:16 | 0:18:22 | |
some of the challenges faced of an
ageing population. The government | 0:18:22 | 0:18:25 | |
has its head in the sand as to who
will look after these people when we | 0:18:25 | 0:18:29 | |
restrict freedom of movement. Via
social care has been far from | 0:18:29 | 0:18:34 | |
stability talked about in the
election campaign. I welcome what | 0:18:34 | 0:18:37 | |
has been said regarding the cap, but
I want to press the Minister on a | 0:18:37 | 0:18:42 | |
point which has cross-party
consensus in Scotland, and | 0:18:42 | 0:18:45 | |
particularly the support of the
Conservative Party. In Scotland, | 0:18:45 | 0:18:52 | |
three social care is being extended
to under 65. 9000 people will be | 0:18:52 | 0:18:59 | |
helped, but the UK Government has no
intention of bringing in this | 0:18:59 | 0:19:03 | |
policy. Does she want to meet with
us to have a look at this? The | 0:19:03 | 0:19:06 | |
purpose of a green paper is that we
properly debate and challenge the | 0:19:06 | 0:19:11 | |
options available. I am interested
in this. He refers to the fact | 0:19:11 | 0:19:17 | |
personal care is met by the
government, but the actual lion's | 0:19:17 | 0:19:20 | |
share cost is the residential
component which is not met, but we | 0:19:20 | 0:19:28 | |
need to win from everybody with
experience, not only within these | 0:19:28 | 0:19:31 | |
nations but across the world. I
appreciate the importance the | 0:19:31 | 0:19:36 | |
government has put on social care,
but the Minister knows I have a | 0:19:36 | 0:19:43 | |
strong interest in children social
care, so at a time when the number | 0:19:43 | 0:19:46 | |
of children coming into care
continues to rise, when thresholds | 0:19:46 | 0:19:52 | |
for intervention are rising, and
work is going south and the number | 0:19:52 | 0:19:56 | |
of adoptions has also been
diminishing, can she and the | 0:19:56 | 0:19:59 | |
government give me assurances that
the attach the same level of | 0:19:59 | 0:20:06 | |
importance to challenges being faced
by children up and down the country? | 0:20:06 | 0:20:13 | |
I can absolutely give him that
assurance, but I may suggest that | 0:20:13 | 0:20:19 | |
the Department for Education respond
to lose points. Can I say how nice | 0:20:19 | 0:20:25 | |
it is to see my honourable friend
back in her rightful place. Can I | 0:20:25 | 0:20:30 | |
also endorse what the chair of the
select committee said, and I asked | 0:20:30 | 0:20:35 | |
the Minister, that she regret the
Chancellor failed to mention social | 0:20:35 | 0:20:38 | |
care at all in the budget? We are in
danger of getting into a false | 0:20:38 | 0:20:45 | |
debates because when I talk about
social care I do not talk about it | 0:20:45 | 0:20:50 | |
to the exclusion of health. I
automatically include it. When | 0:20:50 | 0:20:55 | |
people talk about the failure of the
Chancellor to mention social care, | 0:20:55 | 0:21:00 | |
the reality is that more money was
made available to the NHS, which | 0:21:00 | 0:21:04 | |
will benefit the social care system.
In the absence of provision I might | 0:21:04 | 0:21:13 | |
make and do not might have
encouraged me to make, is it | 0:21:13 | 0:21:17 | |
reasonable to expect my social care
costs to be paid for by the state, | 0:21:17 | 0:21:21 | |
but my ears to inherit my
substantial housing assets? I think | 0:21:21 | 0:21:30 | |
he summarises meekly one of the
debates we have to have in this | 0:21:30 | 0:21:34 | |
space, which is, how about we ensure
people can achieve care of when they | 0:21:34 | 0:21:38 | |
need it and it will be paid for
while at the same time achieving | 0:21:38 | 0:21:45 | |
intergenerational fairness. I hope
he cooperates fully ... The leader | 0:21:45 | 0:22:02 | |
of Rochdale council says he needs
£20 million to meet the demands of | 0:22:02 | 0:22:06 | |
the adult care service. Can the
Minister give some advice on where | 0:22:06 | 0:22:11 | |
that £20 million might be found? We
have made an additional 9.2 -- 9.2 | 0:22:11 | 0:22:22 | |
million pounds and longer term we
are seeing that local authorities | 0:22:22 | 0:22:28 | |
are being imaginative about how they
tackle the need, and we have | 0:22:28 | 0:22:34 | |
increased the money available
through the disability grant, which | 0:22:34 | 0:22:41 | |
is taking a lot of money out of the
system, not least because it is | 0:22:41 | 0:22:45 | |
allowing people to live at home
without the need for support, so I | 0:22:45 | 0:22:51 | |
would encourage him not just to look
at money, but what else to do to | 0:22:51 | 0:22:55 | |
make things better. First of all I
welcome the report and a focus on | 0:22:55 | 0:23:02 | |
carers and the elderly because that
is really important, but care | 0:23:02 | 0:23:09 | |
institutions already offer good and
outstanding service, and on the note | 0:23:09 | 0:23:13 | |
she just made, it is not just about
funding, it is also about other | 0:23:13 | 0:23:17 | |
measures being introduced to help,
for example hospitals linking with | 0:23:17 | 0:23:22 | |
social care providers, and they are
doing a great job already, and their | 0:23:22 | 0:23:26 | |
end of life care has recently been
rated outstanding. We rightly focus | 0:23:26 | 0:23:36 | |
on the challenges, and it is a lot
going right. The Care Quality | 0:23:36 | 0:23:45 | |
Commission found that 80% of places
were good or outstanding, which is | 0:23:45 | 0:23:54 | |
good for a sector that is publicly
criticised. I welcome the idea of a | 0:23:54 | 0:24:03 | |
green paper and I hope we can build
cross-party consensus for the long | 0:24:03 | 0:24:06 | |
term, but any change will be years
away from the Green paper, and the | 0:24:06 | 0:24:11 | |
problems are here and now for local
councils, and DLJ estimates that | 0:24:11 | 0:24:20 | |
there will be a funding gap of £2.6
million. Care homes are failing | 0:24:20 | 0:24:26 | |
because local authorities do not
have the resources they need. Where | 0:24:26 | 0:24:33 | |
is the money to make sure an
adequate social care system does not | 0:24:33 | 0:24:36 | |
get even worse next year? I welcome
part of his comments. He is right, | 0:24:36 | 0:24:44 | |
and one of the reasons we are at
this stage is the absence of a | 0:24:44 | 0:24:49 | |
long-term security meaning some of
these issues are crystallising | 0:24:49 | 0:24:54 | |
rather more quickly than they
should. We have made more money | 0:24:54 | 0:25:01 | |
available to local authorities, but
local authorities more than any | 0:25:01 | 0:25:03 | |
other constituency in this place are
desperate for a solution, and it is | 0:25:03 | 0:25:08 | |
incumbent on all of us to have a
constructive discussion about the | 0:25:08 | 0:25:11 | |
solutions. I am aware there are some
challenges. Key challenges the CMA | 0:25:11 | 0:25:19 | |
report. There is a lot in the report
which frankly did not surprise me, | 0:25:19 | 0:25:22 | |
but we will bring forward a response
dealing with some of the issues that | 0:25:22 | 0:25:26 | |
he has in the New Year. Can I thank
my honourable friend for her | 0:25:26 | 0:25:34 | |
statement and encourage her as
others have done to engage with the | 0:25:34 | 0:25:37 | |
whole House on this issue. But could
I also stress this incredibly | 0:25:37 | 0:25:49 | |
important factor of the crisis now
in certain areas of the country. We | 0:25:49 | 0:25:54 | |
must engage on across party bases
and on the crisis now, including in | 0:25:54 | 0:26:00 | |
my constituency. I do not disagree
with much he has said. I would also | 0:26:00 | 0:26:05 | |
say that colleagues are talking
about a crisis. It is feared to say | 0:26:05 | 0:26:12 | |
that we put local authorities and
the care sector under a lot of | 0:26:12 | 0:26:15 | |
pressure this year getting ready for
the winter, and they have stepped up | 0:26:15 | 0:26:19 | |
to the plate. I would actually pay
tribute to everyone who works in the | 0:26:19 | 0:26:26 | |
sector with real care, and pay
tribute to the work they do, which | 0:26:26 | 0:26:34 | |
is delivering great care. It is a
shocking statement today for the | 0:26:34 | 0:26:43 | |
thousands of families in this
country with the misery of social | 0:26:43 | 0:26:46 | |
care. The Minister refers to the
last government, the Conservative | 0:26:46 | 0:26:53 | |
manifesto was clear on what it was
seeking to do, introducing care | 0:26:53 | 0:26:57 | |
reform costs in 2016. A few weeks
into office, they changed that and | 0:26:57 | 0:27:03 | |
moved it. We had exchanges in the
House weeks ago on the 20th of | 0:27:03 | 0:27:11 | |
October, in response to the member
of New Forest West about the 2020 | 0:27:11 | 0:27:14 | |
date, in which she inadvertently
misled Parliament. This is causing | 0:27:14 | 0:27:28 | |
silent misery for thousands of
people now. I am 53, will my | 0:27:28 | 0:27:33 | |
children be suffering the same level
of misery about my care costs in the | 0:27:33 | 0:27:37 | |
next 30 years that they have? When
will we see the date implemented? It | 0:27:37 | 0:27:49 | |
has just been made clear that we
will be revisiting this. She wants | 0:27:49 | 0:27:55 | |
uncertainty about funding the care
system and what obligations there | 0:27:55 | 0:28:04 | |
will be, so we have to have the
public debate and work together to | 0:28:04 | 0:28:08 | |
bring some proposals putting the
system... | 0:28:08 | 0:28:28 | |
I hear noise from the other side
about cross-party consensus then I | 0:28:29 | 0:28:33 | |
look at the behaviour of the front
bench. | 0:28:33 | 0:28:44 | |
In particular in Torbay on this. One
issue is the complete lack of | 0:28:46 | 0:28:51 | |
understanding on how the current
system works with unlimited | 0:28:51 | 0:28:55 | |
liability, and also if you just
pretend a blunt cap, that means | 0:28:55 | 0:28:58 | |
little for someone who has worked
further whole lifetime. But it would | 0:28:58 | 0:29:03 | |
mean a lot to people with a £20
million pile in the south-east. We | 0:29:03 | 0:29:07 | |
have to look at how we do this on a
long-term basis. He encapsulates the | 0:29:07 | 0:29:14 | |
problem in a nutshell. Many people
do not understand care has to be met | 0:29:14 | 0:29:23 | |
by the individual, and nobody
understands that they have to pay | 0:29:23 | 0:29:25 | |
for it until they have to. So we
cannot simply implement the | 0:29:25 | 0:29:29 | |
proposals that went before because
people do not understand. If we're | 0:29:29 | 0:29:33 | |
going to expect people who living
longer to fund that gear, we have to | 0:29:33 | 0:29:37 | |
take them with us, so we need to
achieve that through the green | 0:29:37 | 0:29:43 | |
paper. Honour among -- I would like
honourable members to engage with | 0:29:43 | 0:29:50 | |
the public about the care system and
how it can be improved for the | 0:29:50 | 0:29:53 | |
stability and the countries. After
years of confusion for which the | 0:29:53 | 0:30:00 | |
government bears some
responsibility, tens of thousands of | 0:30:00 | 0:30:07 | |
carers receive justice on the
national minimum wage. This means | 0:30:07 | 0:30:16 | |
individuals on individual care
packages can face bankruptcy. Can we | 0:30:16 | 0:30:29 | |
have a debate on what could be a
catastrophe for the care sector? He | 0:30:29 | 0:30:36 | |
is right to raise this, and to
reassure him we're acting now. We | 0:30:36 | 0:30:39 | |
are in very close contact with the
providers to address the issues he | 0:30:39 | 0:30:43 | |
has raised. Clearly it is important
that we ensure employers uphold | 0:30:43 | 0:30:47 | |
their obligations and minimum wage
legislation. Clearly we need to make | 0:30:47 | 0:30:52 | |
sure we're not putting anyone at
risk who is dependent on long-term | 0:30:52 | 0:30:58 | |
care, and I am satisfied no one is
at risk, and we are working in | 0:30:58 | 0:31:02 | |
detail with providers to ensure we
can get them through this. In West | 0:31:02 | 0:31:09 | |
Sussex we have specific social care
issues currently under | 0:31:09 | 0:31:14 | |
investigation, but may I welcome
warmly the expert panel. Will the | 0:31:14 | 0:31:21 | |
Minister please ensure the panel was
-- is fully acquainted from issues | 0:31:21 | 0:31:27 | |
in previous scandals? Absolutely. He
mentions the expert panel. I think | 0:31:27 | 0:31:35 | |
it is important that we do take the
advice of people with front-end | 0:31:35 | 0:31:40 | |
experience of the sector. It is not
just about money, it is about | 0:31:40 | 0:31:44 | |
quality and getting right packages
and support and help, because we | 0:31:44 | 0:31:50 | |
need to think about achieving the
best possible care for individuals | 0:31:50 | 0:31:54 | |
as well as how it is paid for. A
recent Barnardos report showed that | 0:31:54 | 0:32:01 | |
two thirds of child carers start
caring in primary school. Some as | 0:32:01 | 0:32:07 | |
young as four with long-term damage
on their mental and emotional | 0:32:07 | 0:32:09 | |
health. Will the Minister ensure
child carers are primary | 0:32:09 | 0:32:15 | |
responsibility for tackling from
government, and take them out | 0:32:15 | 0:32:20 | |
responsibility that we should not be
placing upon them? I thank her for | 0:32:20 | 0:32:29 | |
her comments. She literally
highlights Cinderella in this | 0:32:29 | 0:32:34 | |
debate, to be frank, and it is
appalling that is a many children | 0:32:34 | 0:32:37 | |
are acting as carers. It is to their
long-term detriment, and we would be | 0:32:37 | 0:32:46 | |
failing as a society if we did not
do more to support them. | 0:32:46 | 0:32:52 | |
We need to tackle the challenge of
social care, it is a matter of | 0:32:52 | 0:32:57 | |
cross-party support and agreement.
The Labour Party in their manifesto | 0:32:57 | 0:33:00 | |
said they wanted to implement change
through consensus, an issue that | 0:33:00 | 0:33:06 | |
transcended party politics, so would
the minister welcome cross-party | 0:33:06 | 0:33:09 | |
approach is rather than political
point scoring? I am very keen to | 0:33:09 | 0:33:14 | |
approach this in consensus. I do not
think we can deliver change without | 0:33:14 | 0:33:20 | |
consensus in truth. We have written
to all-party groups in the first | 0:33:20 | 0:33:24 | |
instance to engage with them but
over the course of the next six | 0:33:24 | 0:33:28 | |
months, I hope to engage in
conversations with members in all | 0:33:28 | 0:33:33 | |
parts of the House. Of course there
is a short-term series of precious, | 0:33:33 | 0:33:37 | |
she has cited the CQC report which
is talking about decreasing numbers | 0:33:37 | 0:33:45 | |
of birds in nursing homes, contracts
being handed back to local | 0:33:45 | 0:33:48 | |
authorities because of the acute
financial pressure -- beds in | 0:33:48 | 0:33:52 | |
nursing homes. But there was a
longer-term issue here which all | 0:33:52 | 0:33:55 | |
members have been alluding to, the
need to try set aside some of the | 0:33:55 | 0:34:00 | |
party politics and to find a
cross-party way forward. The | 0:34:00 | 0:34:04 | |
honourable member for Totnes and
others wrote the Prime Minister | 0:34:04 | 0:34:12 | |
saying let us have a convention on
social care reform, can we do that? | 0:34:12 | 0:34:18 | |
It is the only way to crack the
problem. I welcome the spirit in | 0:34:18 | 0:34:24 | |
which he has made his comments and
it is fair to say we are seeing the | 0:34:24 | 0:34:29 | |
same plea from local authorities who
of course are the front-end of | 0:34:29 | 0:34:32 | |
dealing with the problem. He is
absolutely right, we need to | 0:34:32 | 0:34:37 | |
separate the short-term pressures
from the long term and in terms of | 0:34:37 | 0:34:41 | |
long-term, we ought to be able to
have a more sensible conversation. | 0:34:41 | 0:34:45 | |
Let us save the politics for the
short-term and consensus for the | 0:34:45 | 0:34:48 | |
long-term. Thank you. I appreciate
you giving me the opportunity to | 0:34:48 | 0:34:56 | |
come in as I missed the beginning of
the statement. My apologies. I | 0:34:56 | 0:35:01 | |
concur totally with what a number of
colleagues have said about the | 0:35:01 | 0:35:04 | |
issues here and now. There are some
absolutely significant issues for a | 0:35:04 | 0:35:09 | |
lot of councils and care homes. They
really cannot wait for a few years. | 0:35:09 | 0:35:13 | |
The here and now is the priority.
Two things, one negative, I would | 0:35:13 | 0:35:19 | |
like the Minister to take back to
the Chancellor, calling on the | 0:35:19 | 0:35:23 | |
Government to make a public
commitment to fund the back pay bill | 0:35:23 | 0:35:26 | |
for sleeping carers. -- sleep in
carers. If it is not sorted soon, a | 0:35:26 | 0:35:34 | |
number of very reputable
organisations are likely to go bust. | 0:35:34 | 0:35:39 | |
I would like to ask whether the
minister read this BMJ report | 0:35:39 | 0:35:42 | |
recently asked the meat indicating
how exercise can be a significant | 0:35:42 | 0:35:47 | |
miracle cure for older people --
asked the Minister? I would be happy | 0:35:47 | 0:35:55 | |
to meet the honourable gentleman, I
am always looking for solutions. If | 0:35:55 | 0:35:59 | |
we can look after our own well-being
more effectively in terms of | 0:35:59 | 0:36:03 | |
physical and mental well-being, the
need for care will be diminished. | 0:36:03 | 0:36:07 | |
Another reason why we need to have
this public debate. Like the | 0:36:07 | 0:36:10 | |
honourable gentleman, he raises the
issues of sleep ins. It is a big | 0:36:10 | 0:36:17 | |
issue, we are working closely with
the sector to make sure we can | 0:36:17 | 0:36:19 | |
address this. Thank you. I am
currently caring for my ath man with | 0:36:19 | 0:36:28 | |
dementia, living hundreds of miles
away on her own. -- for my mum who | 0:36:28 | 0:36:37 | |
is 80 years old. She gets excellent
care. My personal experience of | 0:36:37 | 0:36:43 | |
doorknocking in the election
demonstrated strongly to me the | 0:36:43 | 0:36:46 | |
public does not understand this and
dementia patients particularly not | 0:36:46 | 0:36:51 | |
able to understand how care can be
funded. Speaking to the Alzheimer's | 0:36:51 | 0:36:55 | |
Society, they were the people who
welcomed the focus in the manifesto | 0:36:55 | 0:36:59 | |
on this difficult issue. Can I ask
her to comment on the fact countries | 0:36:59 | 0:37:05 | |
across the world are facing similar
challenges? This is not about who is | 0:37:05 | 0:37:09 | |
in power in this government, it is a
feature of ageing societies. We must | 0:37:09 | 0:37:14 | |
look at it in the round. She is
right. I mentioned local authorities | 0:37:14 | 0:37:20 | |
were very keen to us to find a
solution, but it is the Alzheimer's | 0:37:20 | 0:37:24 | |
lobby which is more keen than
anybody. At present, one in ten | 0:37:24 | 0:37:28 | |
people who face long-term care
bills. If we are looking at this | 0:37:28 | 0:37:35 | |
from an individual's risk, making
financial provision is not... We do | 0:37:35 | 0:37:39 | |
need a solution. For the one in ten
facing long-term care costs, it is | 0:37:39 | 0:37:48 | |
generally as a consequence of
dementia and it is significant and | 0:37:48 | 0:37:51 | |
that is what we are trying to tackle
by introducing a cap on overall | 0:37:51 | 0:37:54 | |
costs. It is white is very important
we all get involved. It is also why | 0:37:54 | 0:37:59 | |
I think the Alzheimer's lobby is
very keen we establish cross-party | 0:37:59 | 0:38:04 | |
consensus. She raises an interesting
point. The fact of the matter is | 0:38:04 | 0:38:08 | |
over the last 50 years, our
lifestyles have changed | 0:38:08 | 0:38:12 | |
significantly. My own family,
everybody lives within half a mile | 0:38:12 | 0:38:17 | |
of each other, it is easy for the
family to pick up care | 0:38:17 | 0:38:21 | |
responsibilities. I live 300 miles
away from them. That is increasingly | 0:38:21 | 0:38:28 | |
the pattern. Like her, knocking on
doors in the election, you see | 0:38:28 | 0:38:33 | |
people living many miles from their
families, that is something we have | 0:38:33 | 0:38:37 | |
failed to address over decades and
we need to address it now. Thank | 0:38:37 | 0:38:42 | |
you, Mr Deputy Speaker. Can the
Minister update us on the financial | 0:38:42 | 0:38:46 | |
stability of the four seasons group
who care for over 17,000 vulnerable | 0:38:46 | 0:38:51 | |
residents across the UK? I am aware
there has been considerable press | 0:38:51 | 0:38:57 | |
reporting of what is happening with
Four Seasons. Since Southern Cross | 0:38:57 | 0:39:06 | |
Cqc have been involved and they have
been stress testing exactly what is | 0:39:06 | 0:39:10 | |
happening, they were satisfied there
is no risk to any of the people that | 0:39:10 | 0:39:16 | |
Four Seasons. Beyond that, I cannot
say much, commercial issues for | 0:39:16 | 0:39:20 | |
them. He | 0:39:20 | 0:39:21 |