Browse content similar to 19/01/2018. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Order, order. Point of order, Lynne
Brown. May I first of all wish you a | 0:00:13 | 0:00:22 | |
very happy birthday, and may I also
beg to move that the House to sit in | 0:00:22 | 0:00:28 | |
private. The question is that the
House sit in private. As many as are | 0:00:28 | 0:00:37 | |
of the opinion, say, "aye". To the
contrary, "no". I think the noes | 0:00:37 | 0:00:40 | |
habit. Order. The clerk will proceed
to read the orders of the day. | 0:00:40 | 0:00:49 | |
Holmes Fitness for Human Habitation
and Liability for Housing Standards | 0:00:49 | 0:00:51 | |
Bill, second reading. Ms Karen Buck.
Thank you Mr Speaker, and may I to | 0:00:51 | 0:01:01 | |
extend my congratulations for your
birthday today, it is a pleasure to | 0:01:01 | 0:01:04 | |
see you in the chat. I beg to move
that the Holmes Fitness for Human | 0:01:04 | 0:01:10 | |
Habitation and Liability for Housing
Standards Bill be read a second | 0:01:10 | 0:01:12 | |
time. Everyone deserves to live in a
safe, warm and comfortable home, get | 0:01:12 | 0:01:17 | |
despite the undeniable progress over
many decades, many still don't and | 0:01:17 | 0:01:22 | |
often the most vulnerable. Currently
and extraordinarily, landlords have | 0:01:22 | 0:01:25 | |
no obligation to their tenants to
put or keep the property in a | 0:01:25 | 0:01:30 | |
condition fit for habitation. There | 0:01:30 | 0:01:41 | |
is an obligation on the landlord to
repair the structure of the property | 0:01:46 | 0:01:48 | |
and keep in repair features such as
heating, gas, water and electricity | 0:01:48 | 0:01:51 | |
but that only applies when something
is broken or damaged. It does not | 0:01:51 | 0:01:53 | |
cover issues like fire safety,
inadequate heating or poor | 0:01:53 | 0:01:55 | |
ventilation causing condensation and
mould growth. There are a range of | 0:01:55 | 0:01:57 | |
fitness issues which affect the
safety and well-being of tenants and | 0:01:57 | 0:01:59 | |
about which tenants can do nothing.
We must await the result of the | 0:01:59 | 0:02:02 | |
inquiry into the horror of Grenfell
Tower before reaching any | 0:02:02 | 0:02:04 | |
conclusions but what we do know is
residents were raising fire safety | 0:02:04 | 0:02:07 | |
concerns in respect of the cladding
long before the fire. This cladding | 0:02:07 | 0:02:11 | |
was, as far as we know, in good
repair but may have been unfit and | 0:02:11 | 0:02:16 | |
hazardous, something certainly was,
yet the residents | 0:02:16 | 0:02:29 | |
have no legal wood available to
pursue their concerns. This bill | 0:02:37 | 0:02:39 | |
will modernise the housing fitness
standard and extended to cover | 0:02:39 | 0:02:41 | |
almost all tenancies, private
housing association and counsel. It | 0:02:41 | 0:02:43 | |
will allow tenants to take action on
their own behalf in the same way and | 0:02:43 | 0:02:46 | |
on the basis of the same standard as
local authorities can currently and | 0:02:46 | 0:02:48 | |
give a remedy that so many lack.
Members of Parliament are all too | 0:02:48 | 0:02:51 | |
familiar with bad housing. Most of
us at one time or another find | 0:02:51 | 0:02:54 | |
ourselves responding to constituents
living in the most appalling | 0:02:54 | 0:02:55 | |
conditions that their landlord,
public or private, cannot or will | 0:02:55 | 0:02:57 | |
not Act to resolve. As an inner
London MPs whose constituency | 0:02:57 | 0:03:00 | |
includes areas notorious for poor
housing dating back to the year of | 0:03:00 | 0:03:03 | |
slum landlords this issue has always
been very dear to my heart. When the | 0:03:03 | 0:03:11 | |
cases are referred to first come to
me, my first port of call is often | 0:03:11 | 0:03:16 | |
the environmental health department
and while my council is of a | 0:03:16 | 0:03:21 | |
different political persuasion to me
and we fight on most issues, I can | 0:03:21 | 0:03:24 | |
say the environmental health rise to
the occasion again and again and I | 0:03:24 | 0:03:27 | |
must have referred thousands of
cases to them and they Act with | 0:03:27 | 0:03:31 | |
rigour and professionalism yet we
know that action is not sufficient. | 0:03:31 | 0:03:35 | |
I have seen a couple with small
children living in two rooms in what | 0:03:35 | 0:03:39 | |
was effectively the attic of a
property in North Paddington. They | 0:03:39 | 0:03:42 | |
lived and slept in one room. In the
other, the tiny kitchen, toilet and | 0:03:42 | 0:03:48 | |
shower were were just cubicles built
into the same space. I have seen a | 0:03:48 | 0:03:52 | |
family who had to close two
bedrooms, the only bedrooms, because | 0:03:52 | 0:03:56 | |
of the cold and damp and who all sat
in the living room because they were | 0:03:56 | 0:04:00 | |
unable to use the entire property. I
met a flat so damp that when I | 0:04:00 | 0:04:11 | |
visited her even I was struggling to
breathe. I met a pensioner only two | 0:04:11 | 0:04:14 | |
weeks ago who was taken into
hospital with hypothermia twice | 0:04:14 | 0:04:18 | |
because of the cold in a flat where
the heat leaks through badly | 0:04:18 | 0:04:21 | |
designed windows and who also
incidentally fell and hurt her hip | 0:04:21 | 0:04:25 | |
on steps that had turned into a
virtual river as water poured | 0:04:25 | 0:04:29 | |
through a hole in the roof. A good
example of how fitness and disrepair | 0:04:29 | 0:04:34 | |
are distinct and different elements
of unfitness comes on an estate in | 0:04:34 | 0:04:40 | |
my constituency, a lovely and
popular S8 in Bayswater. Residents | 0:04:40 | 0:04:45 | |
had long-standing complaints about
extreme cold, damp and condensation | 0:04:45 | 0:04:48 | |
to the point of environmental health
set up a dedicated project with the | 0:04:48 | 0:04:52 | |
goal of protecting the health of
residents. In 2011 their report | 0:04:52 | 0:04:56 | |
found a range of deficiencies in the
flats contributing to the help as | 0:04:56 | 0:05:00 | |
that of excess cold. Frequently
associated with cold conditions | 0:05:00 | 0:05:04 | |
within the flat, the report says,
was another hazard, that of damp and | 0:05:04 | 0:05:08 | |
mould growth caused by condensation | 0:05:08 | 0:05:20 | |
moisture forming on cold internal
surfaces within the flats including | 0:05:22 | 0:05:24 | |
the window frames and glazing. In
some cases this growth was chronic | 0:05:24 | 0:05:26 | |
and severe. And despite the
environmental health surveys of | 0:05:26 | 0:05:28 | |
flats, the residents impeded the
requested something to be done, | 0:05:28 | 0:05:30 | |
asking for the windows to be
replaced as long ago as 2006. So why | 0:05:30 | 0:05:33 | |
were these flats are unfit and how
does it distinguish itself from | 0:05:33 | 0:05:35 | |
disrepair? Built in the 1950s when
building construction standards were | 0:05:35 | 0:05:40 | |
poorer than today, the insulation
standards on the flats were and | 0:05:40 | 0:05:44 | |
remain very poor. The end walls of
the flats were solid reinforced | 0:05:44 | 0:05:49 | |
concrete as would-be floors, groups,
external stairways, lift shaft, | 0:05:49 | 0:05:53 | |
walkways and balconies and possibly
some internal walls the cavity | 0:05:53 | 0:06:06 | |
walling was unfilled and
uninsulated. Consequently there was | 0:06:06 | 0:06:07 | |
constant heat loss throughout the
building, instances of cold bridging | 0:06:07 | 0:06:09 | |
within the flats on the estate
caused by cold elements transforming | 0:06:09 | 0:06:11 | |
heat energy and losing it
externally, a particular cause of | 0:06:11 | 0:06:13 | |
condensation, dampness and mould
growth in those flats. Those | 0:06:13 | 0:06:18 | |
residents have been waiting for 12
years and a major state programme | 0:06:18 | 0:06:23 | |
that has been under way for some
years still has to run until 2020 do | 0:06:23 | 0:06:27 | |
and those residents have no legal
redress to deal with their concerns. | 0:06:27 | 0:06:33 | |
-- run until 2022. In case the
references to heat loss and cold | 0:06:33 | 0:06:38 | |
bridging are a little technical,
here is one example of a resident | 0:06:38 | 0:06:41 | |
who wrote to me on that estate to
say, I have been suffering from the | 0:06:41 | 0:06:45 | |
cold, we are always sick with the
flu and colds, I have my heating on | 0:06:45 | 0:06:50 | |
24 hours a day with another electric
heater and I am always ill, so is my | 0:06:50 | 0:06:54 | |
son. My heating bill for this month
alone was £400. My son and I have | 0:06:54 | 0:07:01 | |
asthma, arthritis, fibromyalgia,
diabetes, a disease in my hand, I | 0:07:01 | 0:07:06 | |
suffer panic attacks and anxiety, I
am suicidal and have to go to Saint | 0:07:06 | 0:07:11 | |
Mary 's Hospital and see a
psychiatrist who says I must move to | 0:07:11 | 0:07:15 | |
improve my health conditions.
Please, please help me. I thank my | 0:07:15 | 0:07:19 | |
honourable friend for giving way and
for bringing this Private Members | 0:07:19 | 0:07:21 | |
Bell. We all know that morally this
is an issue we need to take up but | 0:07:21 | 0:07:28 | |
would she be surprised to know that
financially it is an issue we need | 0:07:28 | 0:07:32 | |
to take up? I received a letter this
month from the Department of Health | 0:07:32 | 0:07:36 | |
that says that the conditions of
poor quality housing costs the NHS, | 0:07:36 | 0:07:42 | |
as a conservative estimate, an
estimated £1.4 billion a year. She | 0:07:42 | 0:07:47 | |
is a mind reader, I was coming on to
that very point! Just absolutely | 0:07:47 | 0:07:53 | |
reinforcing that there is plentiful
evidence to confirm that bad housing | 0:07:53 | 0:07:56 | |
is a drain on the National Health
Service and if we were able to Act | 0:07:56 | 0:08:00 | |
more effectively to tackle the
causes as in so many other areas it | 0:08:00 | 0:08:04 | |
would be beneficial to the NHS as
well as to housing. May I | 0:08:04 | 0:08:10 | |
congratulate the honourable lady on
bringing forward this bill and | 0:08:10 | 0:08:12 | |
assure her of our support. She has
given some very disturbing cases, | 0:08:12 | 0:08:17 | |
many of which we will have heard
through our own constituency | 0:08:17 | 0:08:21 | |
casework, but does she accept in the
private sector landlords play a | 0:08:21 | 0:08:25 | |
valuable role within the housing
market and the vast majority of them | 0:08:25 | 0:08:29 | |
do understand that in addition to
the right to receive the rent, they | 0:08:29 | 0:08:33 | |
do have obligations towards the
tenants? I absolutely do, I thank | 0:08:33 | 0:08:39 | |
the honourable gentleman for his
intervention and I will make that | 0:08:39 | 0:08:42 | |
point, but the vast majority of
landlords Act responsibly in respect | 0:08:42 | 0:08:44 | |
of their tenants and have an
interest in making sure the rogue | 0:08:44 | 0:08:50 | |
minority do not get away with
irresponsible behaviour. I was also | 0:08:50 | 0:08:56 | |
pleased to take part in the
engagement process this week and on | 0:08:56 | 0:09:04 | |
the one hand I was pleased to hear
the response to our little project | 0:09:04 | 0:09:12 | |
on housing standards had the best
response that has been had so far in | 0:09:12 | 0:09:17 | |
this important experiment, and that
is obviously pleasing in one way, | 0:09:17 | 0:09:22 | |
but further serves to confirm the
extent of the problem. We were told | 0:09:22 | 0:09:29 | |
that 57,000 people viewed the
Facebook page on which we were | 0:09:29 | 0:09:34 | |
presenting our questions about
attitudes to housing fitness and | 0:09:34 | 0:09:37 | |
some of the case studies that came
on as a response to that were truly, | 0:09:37 | 0:09:42 | |
truly horrifying, and came from all
over the country and reflected the | 0:09:42 | 0:09:46 | |
scale of the problem. Now, we know
anecdotally and from members of | 0:09:46 | 0:09:51 | |
Parliament, councillors and many
others in casework, just how serious | 0:09:51 | 0:09:55 | |
is the problem of substandard and
unfit housing, and we know of course | 0:09:55 | 0:10:00 | |
statistically from the English
Housing Survey that there are three | 0:10:00 | 0:10:02 | |
quarters of a million private rented
properties, equivalent to around one | 0:10:02 | 0:10:06 | |
in six of the sector, that are
unfit, and around a quarter of a | 0:10:06 | 0:10:10 | |
million social rented homes that
have a category one hazard under the | 0:10:10 | 0:10:14 | |
Housing health and safety rating
system whether it be damp, | 0:10:14 | 0:10:18 | |
infestation, excess cold or a number
of other risks. This means that some | 0:10:18 | 0:10:22 | |
3 million people including many
children have their health and | 0:10:22 | 0:10:25 | |
safety compromised every day by
substandard housing. And we also | 0:10:25 | 0:10:29 | |
know that local council led
endorsement is simply insufficient | 0:10:29 | 0:10:32 | |
to the task. I have already
mentioned the very positive | 0:10:32 | 0:10:38 | |
relationship I have with my own
local authority although they still | 0:10:38 | 0:10:41 | |
have constraints particularly in
respect of their own housing stock, | 0:10:41 | 0:10:44 | |
but taken across the board we know
that local authorities are not | 0:10:44 | 0:10:47 | |
enforcing more than a tiny
proportion of the substandard | 0:10:47 | 0:10:53 | |
properties. My own most recent
Freedom of Information research | 0:10:53 | 0:10:58 | |
prepared into a report by Stephen
Battersby indicates that enforcement | 0:10:58 | 0:11:01 | |
action is only taken at a level
equivalent to 1% of all those | 0:11:01 | 0:11:06 | |
properties, we understand from the
English Housing Survey, to be unfit. | 0:11:06 | 0:11:09 | |
And research carried out by Shelter
a year or so ago found enforcement | 0:11:09 | 0:11:14 | |
action had fallen by 40% in recent
years. This is importantly not to | 0:11:14 | 0:11:20 | |
criticise local authorities, but the
fact is that the capacity is simply | 0:11:20 | 0:11:24 | |
not there, and it is also true that
performance varies hugely between | 0:11:24 | 0:11:29 | |
councils and there is a reliance in
some areas on informal action which, | 0:11:29 | 0:11:40 | |
whilst it has its place and can help
to resolve some problems, makes it | 0:11:40 | 0:11:43 | |
very, very hard to assess the
overall effectiveness of local | 0:11:43 | 0:11:45 | |
authorities. | 0:11:45 | 0:11:50 | |
Tenants need the ability to
challenge landlords in court. Will | 0:11:50 | 0:11:54 | |
she agree we also need to look at
reintroducing early legal advice so | 0:11:54 | 0:12:01 | |
problems can be resolved quicker?
As the chair of the all-party group | 0:12:01 | 0:12:09 | |
on legal aid, she will not be
surprised to hear I agree and there | 0:12:09 | 0:12:15 | |
are many issues relating to advice
and other aspects of housing need | 0:12:15 | 0:12:20 | |
that still need to be resolved.
All of us owe our gratitude to our | 0:12:20 | 0:12:30 | |
honourable friend and for her
perseverance. | 0:12:30 | 0:12:34 | |
Legal aid is already severely
restricted for disrepair. Do they | 0:12:34 | 0:12:42 | |
not need to find the funds to allow
tenants to enforce this? | 0:12:42 | 0:12:51 | |
We would expect tenants whose
conditions meet the fitness issue | 0:12:51 | 0:12:58 | |
will be able to seek legal aid. I
will make separate representations | 0:12:58 | 0:13:06 | |
about legal aid, it is an issue many
feel strongly about. | 0:13:06 | 0:13:15 | |
I am grateful. Will she pay tribute
to the Citizens' Advice Bureau who | 0:13:15 | 0:13:24 | |
in my constituency have assisted 144
families in relation to housing | 0:13:24 | 0:13:29 | |
repairs, and Doshi agreed many
tenants can get legal expenses | 0:13:29 | 0:13:36 | |
through household insurance -- Does
she agree. | 0:13:36 | 0:13:42 | |
I joined her in paying tribute to
Citizens' Advice Bureau is who have | 0:13:42 | 0:13:47 | |
supported this Bill and have written
a briefing about that. There is a | 0:13:47 | 0:13:55 | |
real concern about advice services
that we have to discuss and make | 0:13:55 | 0:14:04 | |
representations on. On insurance,
one concern which underpins my | 0:14:04 | 0:14:12 | |
motivation is it is often the
poorest and most vulnerable, with | 0:14:12 | 0:14:17 | |
the highest likelihood to have
disabilities and sickness, trapped | 0:14:17 | 0:14:21 | |
in the worst housing, and very few
have adequate insurance. Again a | 0:14:21 | 0:14:27 | |
much larger problem we have to
resolve. There may be different | 0:14:27 | 0:14:33 | |
remedies available to some people.
In truth, the minority concentrated | 0:14:33 | 0:14:39 | |
in bad housing often don't have
those remedies. | 0:14:39 | 0:14:43 | |
I am grateful. I strongly support
this Bill. | 0:14:43 | 0:14:50 | |
The important point about
enforcement, this House is good at | 0:14:50 | 0:14:55 | |
passing revelations but often they
are not enforced properly for the | 0:14:55 | 0:14:58 | |
vulnerable. I believe enforcement
agencies need support. | 0:14:58 | 0:15:06 | |
On the point of retaliatory
evictions when local authorities | 0:15:06 | 0:15:09 | |
take action. In my expense, when
taking action, they don't then help | 0:15:09 | 0:15:15 | |
the tenant to make sure the landlord
hasn't behaved badly -- Experience. | 0:15:15 | 0:15:20 | |
I am clear here are a number of
issues supporting tenants that are | 0:15:20 | 0:15:29 | |
out the scope of this Bill. I will
continue to make representations. | 0:15:29 | 0:15:33 | |
That issue very much one of those.
Local authorities are increasingly | 0:15:33 | 0:15:40 | |
cash strapped which is why the
departments aren't able to enforce. | 0:15:40 | 0:15:47 | |
Ideally, the authorities could find
liaison and advice offices. I have | 0:15:47 | 0:15:55 | |
seen some good examples including in
Westminster. I am happy to | 0:15:55 | 0:16:01 | |
acknowledge when the work is good. I
am in agreement it is inadequate, | 0:16:01 | 0:16:10 | |
patchy, and that is why we need to
make sure individual tenants are | 0:16:10 | 0:16:14 | |
able to exercise a direct remedy in
law when the other services are not | 0:16:14 | 0:16:21 | |
up to the job.
I congratulate her on the Bill. On | 0:16:21 | 0:16:29 | |
the role of local authorities, does
she welcomed the recent decision to | 0:16:29 | 0:16:34 | |
reauthorise new council selective
licence scheme. A small minority of | 0:16:34 | 0:16:41 | |
vandals are a problem, does she
believe authorities should have | 0:16:41 | 0:16:47 | |
those powers?
I do. This is out of the scope of | 0:16:47 | 0:16:50 | |
this particular bill macro. This
Bill promotes one tall, an important | 0:16:50 | 0:16:56 | |
one, but there are many, some of
which are coming in and being | 0:16:56 | 0:17:00 | |
introduce. I congratulate you on the
active work from the council. | 0:17:00 | 0:17:21 | |
Is it a key of this Bill, the social
tenants have no effective means of | 0:17:22 | 0:17:31 | |
redress over poor conditions as
local authorities can't enforce the | 0:17:31 | 0:17:36 | |
rating system against themselves.
This would give them a tool to | 0:17:36 | 0:17:38 | |
provide them, compel the authorities
to carry out repairs? | 0:17:38 | 0:17:46 | |
That is one of the purposes of the
Bill, social tenants do not have | 0:17:46 | 0:17:52 | |
that same right that a private
tenant or housing association tenant | 0:17:52 | 0:17:56 | |
can, to go to the authority. This
Bill will extend the right to seek | 0:17:56 | 0:18:04 | |
remedy to them.
As we know, the law is generally | 0:18:04 | 0:18:10 | |
outdated and restricted in this
area. There is currently no | 0:18:10 | 0:18:14 | |
obligation to ensure the property is
fit as opposed to the obligation | 0:18:14 | 0:18:19 | |
over disrepair. This did not used to
be the case. This was set in law | 0:18:19 | 0:18:27 | |
that has ceased to have effect as
the law has developed. The concept | 0:18:27 | 0:18:30 | |
of housing fitness stems back to
Victorian era, and the 1885 act. | 0:18:30 | 0:18:41 | |
Lord Salisbury made the case the
shocking condition of housing was | 0:18:41 | 0:18:46 | |
injurious to health and morals, and
was attacked for propagating state | 0:18:46 | 0:18:51 | |
socialism. The royal commission
established and proposed a simple | 0:18:51 | 0:18:58 | |
power for the recovery of damages
against owners or holders of | 0:18:58 | 0:19:01 | |
property by those who have suffered
injury or loss by clear neglect or | 0:19:01 | 0:19:06 | |
default insanitary matters. Remedy
was granted to tenants subject to a | 0:19:06 | 0:19:14 | |
relatively generous rent limit. As
laws changed, the rent limit ceased | 0:19:14 | 0:19:19 | |
to be updated and the ability for
tenants to find remedy lapsed. The | 0:19:19 | 0:19:25 | |
impact led to a 1996 report by the
Law Commission. It criticised the | 0:19:25 | 0:19:32 | |
fact the right of the civil remedy
for tenants in cases of unfitness | 0:19:32 | 0:19:36 | |
had withered as the rent limits had
remained unchanged. It concluded | 0:19:36 | 0:19:42 | |
removing the rent limit would be the
preferred way. Court of Appeal | 0:19:42 | 0:19:47 | |
judgments supported this. Closing
the gap, a joint report last year, | 0:19:47 | 0:19:57 | |
concluded the law relating to health
and safety in homes is piecemeal, | 0:19:57 | 0:20:01 | |
outdated, complex, and patchily
enforced, making obscure | 0:20:01 | 0:20:05 | |
distinctions.
On that point, the many tenants in | 0:20:05 | 0:20:17 | |
temporary accommodation with private
landlords placed there by local | 0:20:17 | 0:20:21 | |
authorities, does she see this as a
dilemma with the difficulty in | 0:20:21 | 0:20:27 | |
remedy?
My experience is temporary condition | 0:20:27 | 0:20:34 | |
can have the worst conditions. And
for those tenants placed away from | 0:20:34 | 0:20:39 | |
their local authority, tenants can
have problems seeking remedy. What | 0:20:39 | 0:20:47 | |
does the Bill do? The old
obligations on the nose to ensure a | 0:20:47 | 0:20:51 | |
property is fit and not just in the
pair become obsolete. The Bill | 0:20:51 | 0:20:55 | |
revise the fitness requirements and
updating them by definition to | 0:20:55 | 0:21:00 | |
hazards. A list of 29 categories is
set out in the rating system. It | 0:21:00 | 0:21:12 | |
ensures unfitness is covered as well
as disrepair, structural and design | 0:21:12 | 0:21:16 | |
faults where they include risk to
serious harm. This means the tenant | 0:21:16 | 0:21:28 | |
can take action against the landlord
to make them put right these | 0:21:28 | 0:21:32 | |
problems that make the property and
fit and can seek compensation. The | 0:21:32 | 0:21:36 | |
Bill makes clear the landlord would
not be liable for issues arising | 0:21:36 | 0:21:40 | |
from the behaviour of the tenant.
Can I welcome this important | 0:21:40 | 0:21:50 | |
legislation and her tenacious work.
When I was a private renter I was | 0:21:50 | 0:21:53 | |
offered houses with electric cookers
hanging off the walls, dog mess on | 0:21:53 | 0:22:00 | |
the carpet. Can I welcome what she
is saying, the excellent balance | 0:22:00 | 0:22:05 | |
within the new rights of the tenants
and the sensible safeguards for | 0:22:05 | 0:22:09 | |
landlords.
Thank you. | 0:22:09 | 0:22:22 | |
Finally, can I acknowledge those
people who have got us to where we | 0:22:23 | 0:22:30 | |
are. There has been a breadth of
support for which I am grateful. | 0:22:30 | 0:22:35 | |
Shelter has campaigned strongly. The
chartered Institute of environmental | 0:22:35 | 0:22:42 | |
health has lent expertise, the
National Housing Federation has | 0:22:42 | 0:22:45 | |
given excellent briefings. And the
Law Society and House Of Commons | 0:22:45 | 0:22:51 | |
amongst others. The Bill is backed
by the residential landlords | 0:22:51 | 0:22:57 | |
Association, the National landlords
Association and Association of | 0:22:57 | 0:22:59 | |
residential lettings agents. The
chairman summed up for all three | 0:22:59 | 0:23:05 | |
when he wrote this, the Bill seeks
to achieve what all good landlords | 0:23:05 | 0:23:10 | |
want, better enforcement against the
crooks. In -- Stephen Battersby has | 0:23:10 | 0:23:27 | |
diligently prepared reports into
enforcement and fitness. Thanks to | 0:23:27 | 0:23:33 | |
colleagues who have given up
precious time to be here. I am | 0:23:33 | 0:23:38 | |
thrilled to have Government support
and hope we can continue in this | 0:23:38 | 0:23:43 | |
positive spirit to make good
progress. I give thanks to the | 0:23:43 | 0:23:47 | |
officials who have been
exceptionally helpful. I want to | 0:23:47 | 0:23:51 | |
place on record my appreciation for
Justin Bates and the housing boys | 0:23:51 | 0:23:57 | |
who took the recommendations and
drafted this Bill and supported me | 0:23:57 | 0:24:00 | |
over the past Nama -- Years. I owe
them a debt of gratitude. There is a | 0:24:00 | 0:24:11 | |
great deal more to be done to turn
the tide on in security, | 0:24:11 | 0:24:16 | |
affordability, homelessness and
housing needs and none of us. | 0:24:16 | 0:24:20 | |
Pressing on other fronts. Today we
have a chance to progress this | 0:24:20 | 0:24:23 | |
vegetation to give tenants more
powers to hold landlords to account. | 0:24:23 | 0:24:29 | |
I commend this Bill to the House.
The question is the Bill now be read | 0:24:29 | 0:24:35 | |
a second time.
I would like to congratulate the | 0:24:35 | 0:24:44 | |
honourable lady for bringing forward
this important bill and securing | 0:24:44 | 0:24:48 | |
Government support. It is an
excellent example of cross-party | 0:24:48 | 0:24:53 | |
working. I want to see this Bill
deliver on its object is to ensure | 0:24:53 | 0:24:57 | |
everyone can live in a decent home.
I am the chair of the committee for | 0:24:57 | 0:25:05 | |
new towns and we have a private
rental sector where homes have long | 0:25:05 | 0:25:12 | |
been neglected. We see decay in
states built in a hurry where both | 0:25:12 | 0:25:19 | |
design and materials were not able
to stand the test of time. They are | 0:25:19 | 0:25:24 | |
now passed their useful life.
Renewal and renovation is | 0:25:24 | 0:25:30 | |
challenging. Housing estates in many
new towns are often constructed to | 0:25:30 | 0:25:35 | |
the viburnum design, innovative and
experimental, where cars were | 0:25:35 | 0:25:41 | |
separated from housing, the fund was
accessible only by a footpath which | 0:25:41 | 0:25:45 | |
meant that yard facing each other on
to vehicle access alleyways. This | 0:25:45 | 0:25:51 | |
layout has designed in crime and
anti-social behaviour, with | 0:25:51 | 0:25:58 | |
confusing layouts. We have wooden
construction materials Botting, flat | 0:25:58 | 0:26:04 | |
rues prone to begin, empty
properties and the worst of rogue | 0:26:04 | 0:26:09 | |
landlords -- Rotting. This has
become a nightmare the sun. These | 0:26:09 | 0:26:16 | |
ex-local authority homes are private
rental owned by landlords hard to | 0:26:16 | 0:26:25 | |
trace. There are many good landlords
could take good care of their | 0:26:25 | 0:26:29 | |
property and long-term owner
occupied as who take pride. The | 0:26:29 | 0:26:35 | |
simple fact remains some tenants
living in conditions totally | 0:26:35 | 0:26:39 | |
unacceptable. | 0:26:39 | 0:26:40 | |
These properties are a catalyst for
a spiral of decline on these estate | 0:26:45 | 0:26:49 | |
and cause untold misery not just to
the tenants but the owner occupiers | 0:26:49 | 0:26:53 | |
living alongside them. Tenants are
in the substandard properties | 0:26:53 | 0:26:56 | |
because they have been unable to
secure housing association | 0:26:56 | 0:27:00 | |
properties. Our housing association
properties in Telford are very well | 0:27:00 | 0:27:05 | |
maintained by our innovative and
aspiration of housing Association, | 0:27:05 | 0:27:08 | |
the Wrekin Housing trust, but these
properties are hard to come by, nor | 0:27:08 | 0:27:12 | |
are the tenants able to secure and
other rental property of an adequate | 0:27:12 | 0:27:16 | |
standard and the | 0:27:16 | 0:27:26 | |
reason have complex vulnerabilities.
They may have a history of | 0:27:28 | 0:27:30 | |
addictions, debt, addiction or
mental health problems. They are at | 0:27:30 | 0:27:32 | |
the mercy of rogue landlords because
of the landlords are not willing to | 0:27:32 | 0:27:34 | |
give them a tenancy. Rogue landlords
charge the full amount of housing | 0:27:34 | 0:27:37 | |
benefit and charged nothing but a
rundown, neglected property in the | 0:27:37 | 0:27:39 | |
town, just because they can. As much
as I welcome the bill, I sound a | 0:27:39 | 0:27:42 | |
note of caution that tenants are
affected by the worst conditions in | 0:27:42 | 0:27:45 | |
the private rental sector will not
be tenants likely to be able to | 0:27:45 | 0:27:50 | |
complain effectively, never mind
take enforcement action against | 0:27:50 | 0:27:53 | |
their landlord. We need to recognise
that there is an important role to | 0:27:53 | 0:27:57 | |
play here for local authorities and
it is not good enough for local | 0:27:57 | 0:28:00 | |
authorities to say, this is a
commercial relationship between | 0:28:00 | 0:28:04 | |
tenant and landlord, nothing to do
with us. These tenants are our most | 0:28:04 | 0:28:09 | |
vulnerable residents, they are being
exploited and we have obligations to | 0:28:09 | 0:28:13 | |
them to help enforce the powders
that this new bill will give them | 0:28:13 | 0:28:17 | |
and to use the existing powers that
local authorities already have. I | 0:28:17 | 0:28:21 | |
will give way. My honourable friend
is making a proper point, does she | 0:28:21 | 0:28:28 | |
agree with me echoing the points
made already, that if these | 0:28:28 | 0:28:31 | |
excellent new measures are not to be
a dead letter, we have to ensure | 0:28:31 | 0:28:36 | |
some of our most vulnerable
constituents have the tools they | 0:28:36 | 0:28:39 | |
need through the legal process
through early advice and assistance | 0:28:39 | 0:28:41 | |
to prosecute the rights they would
be given under the legislation? He | 0:28:41 | 0:28:47 | |
is absolutely right in making that
point, and we must help these most | 0:28:47 | 0:28:51 | |
vulnerable tenants to be empowered
because legislation without | 0:28:51 | 0:28:55 | |
assistance to exercise it is not
going to remedy the situation. Just | 0:28:55 | 0:29:04 | |
as I intervened on the honourable
lady for Westminster North, can I | 0:29:04 | 0:29:07 | |
ask her whether she agrees that we
need to ensure local authorities are | 0:29:07 | 0:29:10 | |
enforcing these rules and others to
protect our most vulnerable | 0:29:10 | 0:29:15 | |
citizens, and would she agree with
me that the Government needs to | 0:29:15 | 0:29:18 | |
monitor local authorities and
actually compared them to see which | 0:29:18 | 0:29:22 | |
local authorities are going after
rogue landlords and name and shame | 0:29:22 | 0:29:25 | |
those that are not? The honourable
gentleman is right and there is much | 0:29:25 | 0:29:30 | |
more that can be done to persuade,
enforce, encourage local authorities | 0:29:30 | 0:29:34 | |
to play their part, and they have a
really important part to play and do | 0:29:34 | 0:29:39 | |
already have existing powers to
bring about a remedy. Would she | 0:29:39 | 0:29:44 | |
agree with me then, it is really
important that the department and | 0:29:44 | 0:29:49 | |
the Secretary of State approves in a
timely manner compulsory licensing | 0:29:49 | 0:29:53 | |
schemes that a number of Labour
councils in London and my council in | 0:29:53 | 0:29:58 | |
Brighton and Hove have put request
in for the Secretary of State to | 0:29:58 | 0:30:01 | |
approve that will give them those
enforcement powers? I thank him for | 0:30:01 | 0:30:06 | |
his intervention, I'm fact I do not
agree on that point and I will come | 0:30:06 | 0:30:10 | |
it shortly to explain why I do not.
The existing powers local | 0:30:10 | 0:30:15 | |
authorities already have include
funding to identify and prosecute | 0:30:15 | 0:30:18 | |
rogue landlords, and they need to
step up to the mark to use those | 0:30:18 | 0:30:21 | |
powers and prosecute where a | 0:30:21 | 0:30:32 | |
property is unsafe or substandard.
The evidence is that they do not | 0:30:47 | 0:30:50 | |
make enough use of the powers that
they have. To come onto the | 0:30:50 | 0:30:52 | |
honourable gentleman's point, in my
area selective licensing has been | 0:30:52 | 0:30:54 | |
proposed as a solution to the
problems but penalises all landlord | 0:30:54 | 0:30:57 | |
on an estate, including good,
responsible landlords, and hit them | 0:30:57 | 0:30:59 | |
with an extra levy to prove they are
fit and proper people and fails to | 0:30:59 | 0:31:02 | |
distinguish between those that make
their money letting substandard | 0:31:02 | 0:31:04 | |
properties to the most vulnerable to
whom no one else will let. I am | 0:31:04 | 0:31:06 | |
pleased by this Government's strong
record of action on improving the | 0:31:06 | 0:31:08 | |
experience of tenants and the action
already taken on substandard private | 0:31:08 | 0:31:11 | |
rentals. With local authorities
having the powers to impose civil | 0:31:11 | 0:31:13 | |
penalties up to £30,000 and the
introduction of red repayment | 0:31:13 | 0:31:15 | |
orders, and there are more powers to
come into effect... Yes, I should | 0:31:15 | 0:31:18 | |
like to give way. I and those that
make their money letting substandard | 0:31:18 | 0:31:22 | |
properties to the most vulnerable to
whom no one else will let. I am | 0:31:22 | 0:31:24 | |
pleased by this Government's strong
record of action on improving the | 0:31:24 | 0:31:27 | |
experience of tenants and the action
already taken on substandard private | 0:31:27 | 0:31:29 | |
rentals. With local authorities
having the powers to impose civil | 0:31:29 | 0:31:31 | |
penalties up to £30,000 and the
introduction of red repayment | 0:31:31 | 0:31:33 | |
orders, and there are more powers to
come into effect... Yes, I should | 0:31:33 | 0:31:35 | |
like to give way. The right
honourable lady giving I understand | 0:31:35 | 0:31:38 | |
the point you as is so often case,
the powders may exist but the first | 0:31:38 | 0:31:41 | |
things cut from local authority
budgets are those that actually | 0:31:41 | 0:31:43 | |
enforce the powers that they have
and this is a very good example. I | 0:31:43 | 0:31:45 | |
thank the honourable gentleman for
his remarks, he is right that powers | 0:31:45 | 0:31:48 | |
are not being enforced and there is
a reason why and we need to do more | 0:31:48 | 0:31:51 | |
to make sure local authorities do
enforce... I thank the honourable | 0:31:51 | 0:31:55 | |
lady for giving way. In terms of
more resources to enforce | 0:31:55 | 0:31:59 | |
legislation, would she welcomed the
fact that Torbay Council has used | 0:31:59 | 0:32:02 | |
the powers the Government has given
to levy fines of up to £30,000 to | 0:32:02 | 0:32:08 | |
increase its housing enforcement
team using literary money from those | 0:32:08 | 0:32:11 | |
who abuse their tenants? I am
delighted to here poor Bay is using | 0:32:11 | 0:32:15 | |
these powers and I would encourage
Telford and Wrekin, Mike local | 0:32:15 | 0:32:20 | |
authority, to follow their example.
The honourable lady is being very | 0:32:20 | 0:32:24 | |
generous, thank you. Can I gently
said the reason that the council has | 0:32:24 | 0:32:28 | |
a licensing scheme is because then
it can bring in the money through | 0:32:28 | 0:32:32 | |
that scheme to enable it to do the
enforcement it needs to do. I think | 0:32:32 | 0:32:37 | |
all tenants, as we have heard, all
landlords, as we have heard in this | 0:32:37 | 0:32:43 | |
chamber today, would benefit from
such a scheme because it would mean | 0:32:43 | 0:32:46 | |
there are proper standards they all
adhere to which is only good for the | 0:32:46 | 0:32:49 | |
whole sector. The honourable lady is
right that the objective of | 0:32:49 | 0:32:56 | |
selective licensing is to bring in
more funding but there is a raft of | 0:32:56 | 0:33:00 | |
bureaucracy surrounding it and also
some landlords will pass it on to | 0:33:00 | 0:33:03 | |
tenants. But I want to move on with
the bill that is in front of us | 0:33:03 | 0:33:07 | |
today. I just want to make one more
point and perhaps the honourable | 0:33:07 | 0:33:12 | |
gentleman will come back... The
honourable lady has had her | 0:33:12 | 0:33:16 | |
intervention. More powers are to
come into effect in April 2018 | 0:33:16 | 0:33:22 | |
introducing banning orders and a
database of rogue landlords to | 0:33:22 | 0:33:25 | |
support local authorities in
tackling the problem. There are | 0:33:25 | 0:33:28 | |
powers to remove the worst offenders
and I urge all local authorities to | 0:33:28 | 0:33:32 | |
do so because as much as I work on
this bill empowering tenants, I am | 0:33:32 | 0:33:37 | |
concerned tenants in the most
substandard properties who do not | 0:33:37 | 0:33:39 | |
complain currently the many | 0:33:39 | 0:33:51 | |
different reasons will not be able
to take legal action. The needs and | 0:34:02 | 0:34:05 | |
concerns of tenants are the
responsibility of local authorities, | 0:34:05 | 0:34:06 | |
they are their residence and they
must not wash their hands of tenants | 0:34:06 | 0:34:09 | |
living in these conditions in these
properties. I congratulate the | 0:34:09 | 0:34:11 | |
honourable lady the Member for
Westminster North by highlighting | 0:34:11 | 0:34:13 | |
this very important problem and
thank her for drawing t he attention | 0:34:13 | 0:34:15 | |
of the conditions many people are
living get in my constituency, in | 0:34:15 | 0:34:18 | |
other towns and across the country
today. She has spoken up for people | 0:34:18 | 0:34:20 | |
who cannot speak for themselves and
for that she is to be congratulated. | 0:34:20 | 0:34:23 | |
Order, has the honourable lady
completed her speech? We are | 0:34:23 | 0:34:25 | |
immensely grateful to the honourable
lady, I thank her very much for | 0:34:25 | 0:34:27 | |
that. If the honourable gentleman is
ready, let's hear from the fella, | 0:34:27 | 0:34:32 | |
Clive Betts. I rise to support this
bill and many congratulations to my | 0:34:32 | 0:34:39 | |
honourable friend who has moved the
bill this morning, I know she has a | 0:34:39 | 0:34:45 | |
long-term interest in housing and
housing policy and legislation. What | 0:34:45 | 0:34:49 | |
also came out this morning and
almost certainly has been true of | 0:34:49 | 0:34:53 | |
many years for those who have known
her is her passionate commitment to | 0:34:53 | 0:34:59 | |
housing as it relates to individual
tenants and their struggle to get | 0:34:59 | 0:35:03 | |
decent housing conditions and that
is really what has driven her this | 0:35:03 | 0:35:06 | |
morning to bring this legislation
forward, her experience in her own | 0:35:06 | 0:35:10 | |
constituency which she has spelt out
of hours this morning and those | 0:35:10 | 0:35:13 | |
awful circumstances in which people
have to live, and trying to help | 0:35:13 | 0:35:16 | |
them through this legislation. There
are three reasons why I have a | 0:35:16 | 0:35:21 | |
particular interest in this this
morning and want to see this | 0:35:21 | 0:35:25 | |
legislation pass. The first is if
you go to most members of the public | 0:35:25 | 0:35:28 | |
and say, should a landlord be able
to let a property to a tenant which | 0:35:28 | 0:35:32 | |
is unfit for them to live in? They
say, of course they shouldn't! The | 0:35:32 | 0:35:36 | |
law prevents it, doesn't it? Most
people would assume the law already | 0:35:36 | 0:35:41 | |
does what this bill this morning is
attempting to do! They would assume | 0:35:41 | 0:35:46 | |
Parliament has already taken steps
to ensure that any house that is | 0:35:46 | 0:35:52 | |
left is fit for the person who has
it to live in. The fact that it | 0:35:52 | 0:35:56 | |
isn't is really a condemnation of
all of us that we have allowed this | 0:35:56 | 0:35:58 | |
situation to exist for far too long.
So to put that basic problem right, | 0:35:58 | 0:36:02 | |
I think, is something most of the
public would say, of course you | 0:36:02 | 0:36:06 | |
should do that, of course everyone
in the House this morning should be | 0:36:06 | 0:36:08 | |
here to support this basic measure.
I think it is important that the | 0:36:08 | 0:36:13 | |
House today understands that our
predecessors have tried to act on | 0:36:13 | 0:36:17 | |
this, this bill, very rightly, links
back to the 1985 Housing act, and I | 0:36:17 | 0:36:22 | |
served on the housing bill committee
in 2003-4 with the honourable lady | 0:36:22 | 0:36:29 | |
the Member for Westminster North
when we reformed some of the laws | 0:36:29 | 0:36:33 | |
and brought in the Housing health
and safety rating system which has | 0:36:33 | 0:36:37 | |
proved rather complicated, and the
experience of that attempt to | 0:36:37 | 0:36:41 | |
regulate rogue landlords, going back
through the laws of the past, which | 0:36:41 | 0:36:44 | |
the honourable lady is quite rightly
bring it forward to the House, so | 0:36:44 | 0:36:47 | |
there is a history here and we need
to understand that. There is a | 0:36:47 | 0:36:51 | |
history, but the history is we have
not got it right, that is what we | 0:36:51 | 0:36:55 | |
have tried to do this morning and I
take your point about the housing | 0:36:55 | 0:37:00 | |
health and safety rating system, I
will say a few words on that before | 0:37:00 | 0:37:04 | |
I conclude, so there have been
various efforts but in the end we | 0:37:04 | 0:37:06 | |
are still in a position where houses
can be let to tenants which are not | 0:37:06 | 0:37:11 | |
fit for them to live in and that is
what this, fundamentally, is putting | 0:37:11 | 0:37:15 | |
right, in some ways going back to
the 1985 legislation which | 0:37:15 | 0:37:18 | |
unfortunately has been overtaken by
information where the rental figures | 0:37:18 | 0:37:23 | |
in there are now so far out of date
that effectively legislation cannot | 0:37:23 | 0:37:27 | |
be used at all so it is turning the
clock back to a previous situation | 0:37:27 | 0:37:32 | |
and doing so in a very appropriate
way. Secondly, it is nevertheless, | 0:37:32 | 0:37:38 | |
in terms of the 1985 legislation,
updating the fitness standards | 0:37:38 | 0:37:42 | |
because it is taking the standards
from that legislation but then | 0:37:42 | 0:37:45 | |
adding to them, as I understand it,
the fitness standards from the 2004 | 0:37:45 | 0:37:50 | |
legislation and making a more
comprehensive definition of what | 0:37:50 | 0:37:53 | |
fitness should be, bringing the two
together in a more comprehensive | 0:37:53 | 0:37:57 | |
way. So it is turning the clock back
to 1985 but then modernising and | 0:37:57 | 0:38:01 | |
updating it, incorporating the 2004
standard as well, making a more | 0:38:01 | 0:38:08 | |
comprehensive definition of fitness
to make sure homes are truly fit for | 0:38:08 | 0:38:11 | |
people to live in. The third point
is that of course then by giving the | 0:38:11 | 0:38:16 | |
powers to the tenant as part of
their contract with the landlord, it | 0:38:16 | 0:38:21 | |
means that tenants in local
authority housing have the same | 0:38:21 | 0:38:24 | |
rights of power as those in the
private sector or with a housing | 0:38:24 | 0:38:27 | |
association. It means any tenant in
any rental property have these | 0:38:27 | 0:38:31 | |
rights to enforce against their
landlord to ensure that home is | 0:38:31 | 0:38:35 | |
brought up to a fitness level. It
does the three things, brings the | 0:38:35 | 0:38:42 | |
fitness, any home should be fit for
the tenant living, updates the | 0:38:42 | 0:38:45 | |
fitness standards, then applies the
legislation to local authority | 0:38:45 | 0:38:48 | |
housing as well as other forms of
rented housing. For those three | 0:38:48 | 0:38:53 | |
reasons I think the bill should be
supported. Two other things, the | 0:38:53 | 0:38:59 | |
honourable member made reference to
the housing health and safety rating | 0:38:59 | 0:39:05 | |
system. When the select committee
looked at issues in the private | 0:39:05 | 0:39:08 | |
rental sector in 2013, we called for
a review and update, the guidance on | 0:39:08 | 0:39:14 | |
that system has not been changed I
think since 2006 and is now rather | 0:39:14 | 0:39:19 | |
out of date. There are questions
whether the system is understood by | 0:39:19 | 0:39:24 | |
many people. It is complicated, it
is difficult to understand, most | 0:39:24 | 0:39:29 | |
professionals may understand it but
I think the fact there is not an | 0:39:29 | 0:39:34 | |
absolute definition in there of what
is fit and what isn't is a problem. | 0:39:34 | 0:39:40 | |
Many landlords don't understand it
and if landlords don't understand | 0:39:40 | 0:39:43 | |
it, the chances of tenants
understanding it are very small | 0:39:43 | 0:39:46 | |
indeed so another look at that about
whether you should have some basic | 0:39:46 | 0:39:49 | |
standards as opposed to simply a
risk-based system is something we | 0:39:49 | 0:39:52 | |
ought to come back to in due course.
There is something strange with a | 0:39:52 | 0:39:56 | |
system where you can have a house
which is let to one tenant which is | 0:39:56 | 0:40:01 | |
deemed to be unfit with that tenant
in but if the tenant changes and a | 0:40:01 | 0:40:06 | |
new tenant moved in, the | 0:40:06 | 0:40:17 | |
House can become fit without having
worked on to it whatsoever because | 0:40:26 | 0:40:29 | |
the second tenant may be deemed to
be less of a risk than the first | 0:40:29 | 0:40:32 | |
tenant and being a risk-based system
means the level of fitness is | 0:40:32 | 0:40:34 | |
changed with the change of tenant,
and I think that is something that | 0:40:34 | 0:40:37 | |
is very difficult for most people to
understand and I think at some point | 0:40:37 | 0:40:39 | |
we have to revisit it. Finally,
local authorities and their ability | 0:40:39 | 0:40:42 | |
to take enforcement action in a
range of areas, the select committee | 0:40:42 | 0:40:44 | |
is currently looking at an inquiry
about both the powers and resources | 0:40:44 | 0:40:46 | |
that local authorities have to carry
out enforcement in the private | 0:40:46 | 0:40:49 | |
sector... I recently undertook a
Freedom of Information with local | 0:40:49 | 0:40:56 | |
authorities in London to see how
many people had capital pots of | 0:40:56 | 0:40:58 | |
money to do works and the answer was
just two so our laws cannot be | 0:40:58 | 0:41:05 | |
enforced at the moment. I think this
is a problem and we are getting | 0:41:05 | 0:41:11 | |
evidence to that effect and having
our second session next Monday on | 0:41:11 | 0:41:14 | |
this. The Government are bringing in
more powers for local authorities to | 0:41:14 | 0:41:18 | |
act, and they are welcome. The
banning orders which come into | 0:41:18 | 0:41:21 | |
effect in April are welcome, and
these are the worst landlords who | 0:41:21 | 0:41:25 | |
will have these banning orders and
their names ought to be up there in | 0:41:25 | 0:41:29 | |
lights for everyone to see what they
are up to, and they are good and | 0:41:29 | 0:41:32 | |
that is supported. The Government's
decision to extend the HMO | 0:41:32 | 0:41:40 | |
definition of properties that need
licenses to properties with two | 0:41:40 | 0:41:45 | |
stories is absolutely right as well,
I argued under the Labour Government | 0:41:45 | 0:41:51 | |
for that definition, unfortunately
at the time we could not persuade | 0:41:51 | 0:41:54 | |
ministers to include properties of
two stories, I'm pleased the | 0:41:54 | 0:41:58 | |
Government is doing it, that is
absolutely right as well, more work | 0:41:58 | 0:42:01 | |
for local authorities as well as
more powers. I hope the Government | 0:42:01 | 0:42:05 | |
brings in the requirement that all
private rented homes should have | 0:42:05 | 0:42:09 | |
their electrical systems checked
every five years. This consultation | 0:42:09 | 0:42:13 | |
has been a long time coming but I
hope that comes in as well, but a | 0:42:13 | 0:42:17 | |
game more work for local
authorities. I know my honourable | 0:42:17 | 0:42:23 | |
friend's bill is essentially giving
powers to tenants to act in this | 0:42:23 | 0:42:27 | |
case but in reality tenants are
going to need support and | 0:42:27 | 0:42:31 | |
assistance, they may well go to the
Shelter helpline which is based in | 0:42:31 | 0:42:38 | |
Sheffield and get the telephone
service there which is excellent, | 0:42:38 | 0:42:41 | |
they may go to their citizens advice
service, they may go to other advice | 0:42:41 | 0:42:45 | |
bureaus and get help, they may go to
their members of Parliament or the | 0:42:45 | 0:42:49 | |
local councillors, but very often
they will go to their councils and | 0:42:49 | 0:42:53 | |
seek help and assistance. What I
will say is that although the | 0:42:53 | 0:42:58 | |
primary requirement of the
legislation is to give powers to | 0:42:58 | 0:43:02 | |
tenants, in the end those tenants
may well go to the local authority | 0:43:02 | 0:43:05 | |
to get help and assistance with all
the | 0:43:05 | 0:43:17 | |
other measures coming in, very good
measures which the Government are | 0:43:18 | 0:43:20 | |
introducing, the extra power was for
local authorities to take | 0:43:20 | 0:43:22 | |
enforcement action, this legislation
may put extra demands on local | 0:43:22 | 0:43:24 | |
authority officers and the issue of
resources is still fundamental to | 0:43:24 | 0:43:27 | |
sorting out the problem and will be
raised as part of the select | 0:43:27 | 0:43:29 | |
committee inquiries and ministers
should be listening that without | 0:43:29 | 0:43:31 | |
resources local authorities will not
be able to offer the tenants the | 0:43:31 | 0:43:33 | |
assistance to make the legislation
affected. | 0:43:33 | 0:43:40 | |
Can I join in wishing you a happy
birthday and thank you when you | 0:43:40 | 0:43:46 | |
could be enjoying yourself in
another way. | 0:43:46 | 0:43:56 | |
I am sure you are going to enjoy our
debate. | 0:43:56 | 0:44:01 | |
Can I draw attention to my entry in
the interests that I am part of the | 0:44:01 | 0:44:10 | |
local Government Association and
have a small property portfolio. | 0:44:10 | 0:44:15 | |
I want to congratulate you on
bringing this much-needed bill to | 0:44:15 | 0:44:19 | |
this House, and to ensure that what
she has done is to make sure all | 0:44:19 | 0:44:24 | |
tenants whether they are in social
housing or private rented housing | 0:44:24 | 0:44:28 | |
will have the right to make sure
they are living in a decent home. It | 0:44:28 | 0:44:33 | |
is a fundamental right of everyone
to be able to live in a decent home. | 0:44:33 | 0:44:39 | |
This measure has been needed for a
long time. | 0:44:39 | 0:44:45 | |
It is a pleasure to follow the
honourable member for Sheffield | 0:44:45 | 0:44:50 | |
South East, the distinguished chair
of the Select Committee. He has a | 0:44:50 | 0:45:01 | |
long history of service in local
Government and serving this House in | 0:45:01 | 0:45:07 | |
holding the Government to account
through our work on the Select | 0:45:07 | 0:45:11 | |
Committee. I have had the pleasure
of serving for the last seven years | 0:45:11 | 0:45:16 | |
on that committee and in that time
we have looked at all aspects of the | 0:45:16 | 0:45:21 | |
private rented sector and socially
rented sector. This measure is | 0:45:21 | 0:45:27 | |
welcome and needed. Can I pay
tribute to the honourable member for | 0:45:27 | 0:45:34 | |
spreading west, the minister
responsible for negotiating with the | 0:45:34 | 0:45:36 | |
honourable lady to get this Bill
into such a form the Government can | 0:45:36 | 0:45:43 | |
now support, and I am pleased we
will be passing this unanimously a | 0:45:43 | 0:45:48 | |
bit later on today. I also welcome
the honourable member for South | 0:45:48 | 0:45:54 | |
Derbyshire and I will have questions
I will hope she will answer when she | 0:45:54 | 0:46:00 | |
rises to speak a bit later.
I would also like to thank all the | 0:46:00 | 0:46:08 | |
myriad of organisations that have
sent briefing notes to us, to look | 0:46:08 | 0:46:13 | |
at. All of whom praise and support
the Bill, I am delighted to say, and | 0:46:13 | 0:46:19 | |
that does mean it is likely to
receive a good passage right the way | 0:46:19 | 0:46:28 | |
through the House.
The reality is there are many | 0:46:28 | 0:46:31 | |
different types of landlords in the
private sector and associated rented | 0:46:31 | 0:46:37 | |
sector, accidental landlords who
inherit a property and rent it. Most | 0:46:37 | 0:46:41 | |
want to do the right thing. Often
they are ignorant of their | 0:46:41 | 0:46:47 | |
requirements and responsibilities
under the law. There is a duty on | 0:46:47 | 0:46:51 | |
Government to ensure those landlords
are educated in their | 0:46:51 | 0:46:55 | |
responsibilities to their tenants.
There are those who are small | 0:46:55 | 0:46:58 | |
investors who have chosen to use
this as a means of encouraging a pot | 0:46:58 | 0:47:02 | |
of money for their retirement or
other purposes, and then commercial | 0:47:02 | 0:47:10 | |
landlords in the private sector who,
in many ways, are really good | 0:47:10 | 0:47:14 | |
landlords, but there are some who
are rogues. This legislation does | 0:47:14 | 0:47:24 | |
indeed aim at spotting them and
putting them out of business and it | 0:47:24 | 0:47:28 | |
is right we should ramp up
activities to make sure those | 0:47:28 | 0:47:32 | |
individuals do not exploit
vulnerable people and vulnerable | 0:47:32 | 0:47:34 | |
tenants.
I thank him forgiving way. There is | 0:47:34 | 0:47:43 | |
evidence we as a co-member of the
Select Committee as we heard from | 0:47:43 | 0:47:48 | |
Shelton saying while the focus on
rogue vandals is important, that | 0:47:48 | 0:47:52 | |
alone can give a misleading
impression the experience of tenants | 0:47:52 | 0:47:57 | |
of poor quality rented housing is
limited to a small number and that | 0:47:57 | 0:48:04 | |
is not the case, there are landlords
who are inexperienced, lazy, | 0:48:04 | 0:48:10 | |
negligent in their response
abilities who fall short of rogue | 0:48:10 | 0:48:13 | |
but whose practice is nonetheless
not acceptable. | 0:48:13 | 0:48:17 | |
Quite clearly, when we look at the
percentages of properties that are | 0:48:17 | 0:48:22 | |
not decent, it is clear it is not
limited to a small number of rogue | 0:48:22 | 0:48:27 | |
landlords, I will come onto that
later. | 0:48:27 | 0:48:34 | |
Clearly, we have a position locally,
and I note the right honourable | 0:48:34 | 0:48:39 | |
Bamber for Brent North is in his
place, he and I share the challenge | 0:48:39 | 0:48:44 | |
of many individuals who may have
bought properties many years ago, | 0:48:44 | 0:48:49 | |
their lifestyles have changed, they
have moved out and chosen not to | 0:48:49 | 0:48:52 | |
sell, but to rent them, and
unfortunately in some cases to | 0:48:52 | 0:48:59 | |
literally exploit many vulnerable
people. The reality is those | 0:48:59 | 0:49:04 | |
individuals need to be called to
account. We have had in north-west | 0:49:04 | 0:49:08 | |
London a huge number of what are now
turned beds in sheds, small | 0:49:08 | 0:49:16 | |
developments, alongside properties
were unscrupulous landlords | 0:49:16 | 0:49:22 | |
literally force individuals to sleep
in absolutely unacceptable | 0:49:22 | 0:49:26 | |
conditions. The local authorities
concerned attempt to enforce the | 0:49:26 | 0:49:32 | |
rules. However, their resources are
limited and often it is a | 0:49:32 | 0:49:36 | |
requirement for people, I routinely
draw my local authorities's | 0:49:36 | 0:49:42 | |
attention to this landlords.
However, resources are limited. One | 0:49:42 | 0:49:50 | |
is the honourable member for
Sheffield South East has made is | 0:49:50 | 0:49:56 | |
local authorities need the resources
to enforce the law that exists right | 0:49:56 | 0:50:01 | |
now. Without that, I am concerned
that the good meaning behind the | 0:50:01 | 0:50:07 | |
Bill which is to give tenants rights
may not actually bring to fruition | 0:50:07 | 0:50:13 | |
what we all want to see which is the
creation of a properly decent home. | 0:50:13 | 0:50:21 | |
I thank my honourable friend
forgiving way. This is an important | 0:50:21 | 0:50:27 | |
point on the onus of responsibility.
One of the attractive features of | 0:50:27 | 0:50:30 | |
the Bill is it puts the part of
responsibility on the landlord as | 0:50:30 | 0:50:37 | |
opposed to them reacting with
varying degrees of enthusiasm -- | 0:50:37 | 0:50:40 | |
Enthusiasm.
One of the concerns as to be when we | 0:50:40 | 0:50:49 | |
empower tenants that we have to
ensure they have got the | 0:50:49 | 0:50:53 | |
opportunities and understanding of
what their rights are, but also to | 0:50:53 | 0:50:57 | |
draw to the attention of landlords
what their duties are, to make sure | 0:50:57 | 0:51:01 | |
their homes are safe. One of the
issues we discovered when we did in | 0:51:01 | 0:51:06 | |
quarries through the Select
Committee worth the duties on | 0:51:06 | 0:51:12 | |
electrical safety. You will remember
some of the reviews that took place, | 0:51:12 | 0:51:20 | |
and are collection cup our
attachment on -- at the duties of | 0:51:20 | 0:51:27 | |
home owners, let alone landlords,
and often that is invisible to | 0:51:27 | 0:51:35 | |
tenants and to landlords.
But it is a hazard and it would be | 0:51:35 | 0:51:41 | |
risky for many tenants.
Can I say, in my constituency, in | 0:51:41 | 0:51:50 | |
one ward, more than 20% of
properties are rented out in the | 0:51:50 | 0:51:56 | |
private sector, most are now rented
out to people from the EU, mainly | 0:51:56 | 0:52:03 | |
Romania and Poland, who are being
exploited. Herded into cramped | 0:52:03 | 0:52:11 | |
accommodation in houses in multiple
occupation which are not licensed. | 0:52:11 | 0:52:15 | |
Although the local authority takes
action to combat that, it is a real | 0:52:15 | 0:52:21 | |
problem that individuals who have
come into this country to work hard | 0:52:21 | 0:52:25 | |
and earn a living and contribute to
this country, are being ruthlessly | 0:52:25 | 0:52:30 | |
exploited by a small number of
landlords and I condemn them. | 0:52:30 | 0:52:40 | |
Would he also accept it is not just
with migrant Labour where there is | 0:52:40 | 0:52:45 | |
this exploitation as he rightly
describes, but with the student | 0:52:45 | 0:52:53 | |
accommodation, there is a high churn
in the community of one year or less | 0:52:53 | 0:52:58 | |
that they are so exploited, and it
is the same as he is describing of | 0:52:58 | 0:53:04 | |
the migrant Labour sector.
It reminds me of the time when I was | 0:53:04 | 0:53:10 | |
at university in Liverpool and we
all suffered quite frankly appalling | 0:53:10 | 0:53:15 | |
conditions at that time in the
private rented sector. I don't | 0:53:15 | 0:53:18 | |
believe students, many more now who
will need private rented | 0:53:18 | 0:53:25 | |
accommodation for a period, many of
whom as he says are being exploited | 0:53:25 | 0:53:31 | |
as well and will put up with
conditions that others would | 0:53:31 | 0:53:36 | |
otherwise not, in order to get a
lower rent and not draw attention to | 0:53:36 | 0:53:43 | |
the problems.
That is a problem. It is not just a | 0:53:43 | 0:53:49 | |
problem. We need to be clear. Not
just a problem in the private | 0:53:49 | 0:53:54 | |
sector. There are local authorities
who don't maintain properties to a | 0:53:54 | 0:53:59 | |
decent standard, pockets of them,
and I remember as a local authority | 0:53:59 | 0:54:04 | |
leader applauding the then Labour
Government on providing funds to | 0:54:04 | 0:54:09 | |
bring local authority stock up to a
decent homes standard, a great thing | 0:54:09 | 0:54:14 | |
that meant local authorities could
do that. We still have large numbers | 0:54:14 | 0:54:19 | |
of properties that are owned by
councils that are not brought up to | 0:54:19 | 0:54:24 | |
a decent standard. Can I just do one
other point then I will gladly give | 0:54:24 | 0:54:30 | |
way.
We also have housing associations, | 0:54:30 | 0:54:33 | |
and the reality is, as I mentioned,
although 28% of the private rented | 0:54:33 | 0:54:42 | |
sector is non-decent, 14.8% of local
authority housing is still | 0:54:42 | 0:54:49 | |
non-decent, and 11.8% of housing
association properties are not | 0:54:49 | 0:54:52 | |
decent. This problem is not limited
to the private rental sector but | 0:54:52 | 0:54:58 | |
extended to the socially rented
sector which is why I strongly | 0:54:58 | 0:55:02 | |
support the draft Bill presented by
the Honourable lady because we are | 0:55:02 | 0:55:08 | |
looking at this in a competitive
manner. | 0:55:08 | 0:55:10 | |
I give way. Would he agree there is
a problem in many local authority | 0:55:10 | 0:55:21 | |
housing stock where the local
authority has subcontracted out the | 0:55:21 | 0:55:27 | |
maintenance of their stock, often
for very long terms, with not enough | 0:55:27 | 0:55:34 | |
scrutiny, and it means tenants who
are responsible to the local | 0:55:34 | 0:55:37 | |
authority, are not able to do
anything, and the local authority | 0:55:37 | 0:55:40 | |
offered is not able to reel the
contract in. This might help provide | 0:55:40 | 0:55:46 | |
more leverage for the local
authority to step in. | 0:55:46 | 0:55:50 | |
One of the problems with local
authorities who choose to outsource | 0:55:50 | 0:55:57 | |
their responsibilities is they
should not be abdicating | 0:55:57 | 0:56:01 | |
responsibility they have two their
tenants. One problem there has been | 0:56:01 | 0:56:06 | |
is when tenants complain about that,
often, local authorities wash their | 0:56:06 | 0:56:10 | |
hands and say it has nothing to do
with us, go to the service company | 0:56:10 | 0:56:16 | |
responsible. Tenants find it
difficult to identify who is | 0:56:16 | 0:56:20 | |
actually responsible for these
aspects. I have many examples in my | 0:56:20 | 0:56:26 | |
constituency where individual
tenants have complained and not | 0:56:26 | 0:56:31 | |
being able to get the service they
should get from their landlord, be | 0:56:31 | 0:56:38 | |
it housing association or local
authority. | 0:56:38 | 0:56:40 | |
I thank the honourable gentleman for
being so generous in giving way. My | 0:56:45 | 0:56:50 | |
understanding in my own local
authority is the budgets of such | 0:56:50 | 0:56:53 | |
maintenance and repairs to local
authority owned properties has | 0:56:53 | 0:56:56 | |
already run out before Christmas for
this current financial year so they | 0:56:56 | 0:57:00 | |
are unable to do those repairs to
the properties. I thank the | 0:57:00 | 0:57:06 | |
honourable member for the
intervention. Clearly there are | 0:57:06 | 0:57:09 | |
pressures on local authority
budgets, we recognise that | 0:57:09 | 0:57:13 | |
particular issue. But the key is you
is it is the responsibility of the | 0:57:13 | 0:57:17 | |
local authority to find the money to
honour their obligations. I can't | 0:57:17 | 0:57:24 | |
from this position talk about an
individual council's budget but the | 0:57:24 | 0:57:28 | |
reality is they have obligations and
they should not be, therefore, | 0:57:28 | 0:57:33 | |
rationing the service they provide
when they have legal obligations to | 0:57:33 | 0:57:37 | |
provide tenants with decent quality
homes. Could I move on? Deputy | 0:57:37 | 0:57:44 | |
Speaker, can I say that it is almost
a year ago today that I was standing | 0:57:44 | 0:57:51 | |
up on the report stage of my
Homelessness Reduction Bill, now the | 0:57:51 | 0:57:55 | |
Homelessness Reduction Act... And
remind the honourable lady for | 0:57:55 | 0:58:04 | |
Westminster North that during the
committee stage of the bill the only | 0:58:04 | 0:58:08 | |
amendment that we accepted and the
Government would accept through the | 0:58:08 | 0:58:12 | |
passage of that bill was her
amendment which meant that local | 0:58:12 | 0:58:16 | |
authorities, when they place of
vulnerable people in accommodation, | 0:58:16 | 0:58:21 | |
should have do inspect the premises
and make sure they are fit for human | 0:58:21 | 0:58:27 | |
habitation and are safe, which is a
dramatic change to the law. However, | 0:58:27 | 0:58:31 | |
that only is a narrow requirement on
those that are placed there who are | 0:58:31 | 0:58:37 | |
vulnerable by the local authorities
so I'm delighted that this piece of | 0:58:37 | 0:58:42 | |
legislation will now force all
landlords to bring their homes up to | 0:58:42 | 0:58:46 | |
a decent standard and an acceptable
fashion. But I do think there is one | 0:58:46 | 0:58:55 | |
or two concerns that I just want to
raise because I think this bill can | 0:58:55 | 0:59:00 | |
be improved still further. The first
is the need to tenants to understand | 0:59:00 | 0:59:07 | |
what their rights are and for the
enforcement of them. I also want to | 0:59:07 | 0:59:13 | |
see some protection for those people
that complain about their landlords | 0:59:13 | 0:59:16 | |
that we don't see that the
honourable gentleman raised on | 0:59:16 | 0:59:24 | |
retaliatory evictions taking place,
we do not want a position whereby | 0:59:24 | 0:59:28 | |
someone who takes action under this
bill suddenly find themselves | 0:59:28 | 0:59:32 | |
homeless because the landlord has
said, you can take me to court if | 0:59:32 | 0:59:36 | |
you want but if you do then I'm
going to evict you as a result. That | 0:59:36 | 0:59:40 | |
would be reprehensible and we have
to combat that in a way. I also have | 0:59:40 | 0:59:46 | |
a concern that whilst this gives
rights to tenants to challenge bad | 0:59:46 | 0:59:53 | |
landlords, the primary
responsibility for inspecting and | 0:59:53 | 0:59:55 | |
making sure that properties are safe
should reside with local | 0:59:55 | 1:00:00 | |
authorities. I have a real concern
that local authorities are now not | 1:00:00 | 1:00:04 | |
able to carry out those functions
because of a lack of funding and the | 1:00:04 | 1:00:07 | |
one concern I have in the
explanatory notes to the bill is the | 1:00:07 | 1:00:11 | |
lack of the need for a resolution to
provide more funds to local | 1:00:11 | 1:00:17 | |
authorities to enable them to
enforce the rules that should apply | 1:00:17 | 1:00:22 | |
and I would ask my honourable friend
the Minister to have a look at this | 1:00:22 | 1:00:25 | |
because I do think this is something
the department needs to look at in | 1:00:25 | 1:00:28 | |
the round to make sure that local
authorities are given the resources | 1:00:28 | 1:00:32 | |
that they need to actually ensure
that people can live in decent | 1:00:32 | 1:00:37 | |
accommodation. I commend him for
that bill, the Homelessness | 1:00:37 | 1:00:44 | |
Reduction Bill, and on that note
money has been made available for | 1:00:44 | 1:00:47 | |
local authorities to carry out some
of their new duties which I think | 1:00:47 | 1:00:51 | |
indicates that make that bill work
there does need to be some support | 1:00:51 | 1:00:54 | |
for the local authorities, would he
agree with me? I the honourable | 1:00:54 | 1:01:00 | |
lady, and clearly under the act that
I was able to get through the | 1:01:00 | 1:01:04 | |
Government were very generous and
produced some £83 million, I think | 1:01:04 | 1:01:09 | |
it was, in the end, to support the
first two years and £70 million of | 1:01:09 | 1:01:14 | |
that was as a result of the
honourable lady's amendment to | 1:01:14 | 1:01:20 | |
ensure premises or homes were
inspected, made fit for habitation, | 1:01:20 | 1:01:25 | |
before someone was moved in. So that
demonstrates the extent of a rather | 1:01:25 | 1:01:31 | |
narrow requirement, we are talking a
much broader requirement here, and | 1:01:31 | 1:01:35 | |
that is why I think there is a need
for a substantial injection of cash | 1:01:35 | 1:01:39 | |
for local authorities as a result. I
will give way again. Thank you very | 1:01:39 | 1:01:45 | |
much, you are incredibly kind. Would
he agree with me that in many cases | 1:01:45 | 1:01:53 | |
the bill that he put forward still
is not being enforced and in many | 1:01:53 | 1:02:01 | |
cases, a case for example at
Christmas that I had of a mother | 1:02:01 | 1:02:05 | |
being moved into temporary
accommodation with the toilet | 1:02:05 | 1:02:09 | |
overflowing that lasted until we
intervened and the local authority | 1:02:09 | 1:02:12 | |
only take action when we intervened,
means that that bill was too weak | 1:02:12 | 1:02:16 | |
and there is a danger that without
resourcing for local authorities, | 1:02:16 | 1:02:20 | |
without increasing the cap on house
investment and without proper | 1:02:20 | 1:02:27 | |
enforcement all of these are nice
words but they are unenforceable. I | 1:02:27 | 1:02:33 | |
thank the honourable gentleman,
clearly I would agree that what we | 1:02:33 | 1:02:36 | |
do need to do is ramp up funding and
responsibility and give local | 1:02:36 | 1:02:42 | |
authorities the powers that they
need and resources that they need to | 1:02:42 | 1:02:46 | |
carry out duties under this
legislation and other pieces of | 1:02:46 | 1:02:49 | |
legislation that have been put
through. Can I also ask the Minister | 1:02:49 | 1:02:54 | |
from the Government's side but we
also need to look at is the | 1:02:54 | 1:02:58 | |
sentencing guidelines that are given
out against rogue landlords. The | 1:02:58 | 1:03:02 | |
reality is that there may be a
maximum fine permissible of up to | 1:03:02 | 1:03:08 | |
£30,000 but it is very rare for the
courts to issue fines have that type | 1:03:08 | 1:03:12 | |
and the reality is that we need to
have a position whereby not only | 1:03:12 | 1:03:18 | |
should the fines be reinvested in
the service so that any money that | 1:03:18 | 1:03:22 | |
comes in can be reinvested in the
inspection and enforcement process, | 1:03:22 | 1:03:26 | |
but clear sentencing guidelines need
to be issued so that magistrates | 1:03:26 | 1:03:29 | |
courts will have a position whereby
they can maximise the fines, | 1:03:29 | 1:03:34 | |
particularly on the worst-case
scenarios. Can I just confirm that | 1:03:34 | 1:03:42 | |
we only have 23 minutes until the
Government's statements for this | 1:03:42 | 1:03:48 | |
very important debate to conclude?
Is that correct? It will not | 1:03:48 | 1:03:53 | |
conclude the debate but there will
be a statement at 11am. Bob | 1:03:53 | 1:03:57 | |
Blackman. From the honourable
member's perspective, I am coming to | 1:03:57 | 1:04:04 | |
the end of my speech, I am very
supportive of the bill and cognisant | 1:04:04 | 1:04:07 | |
of the fact that the debate could be
adjourned whilst we have the | 1:04:07 | 1:04:11 | |
statements but will continue
thereafter to a conclusion, so he | 1:04:11 | 1:04:15 | |
should not worry too much about
that. One of the concern that I | 1:04:15 | 1:04:22 | |
have, Madam Deputy Speaker, is the
implementation period of this | 1:04:22 | 1:04:26 | |
legislation, I think in the
guidelines it suggested this will be | 1:04:26 | 1:04:31 | |
introduced three months after the
bill becomes an act of Parliament, | 1:04:31 | 1:04:34 | |
and I would ask the Minister, in her
speech, if she could look at whether | 1:04:34 | 1:04:39 | |
there is a need for secondary
legislation, regulation, as a result | 1:04:39 | 1:04:43 | |
of the bill being made into law
because I know from my own | 1:04:43 | 1:04:49 | |
experience that there is a myriad of
secondary legislation that I think | 1:04:49 | 1:04:53 | |
the Government is introducing next
month for my Act and I'm concerned | 1:04:53 | 1:04:59 | |
that we don't want to get to a
position whereby much-needed | 1:04:59 | 1:05:04 | |
secondary legislation is not ready
in time for the commencement of the | 1:05:04 | 1:05:07 | |
act and therefore we could have
potential problems later on. So, in | 1:05:07 | 1:05:14 | |
summary, Madam Deputy Speaker, I
strongly support the honourable | 1:05:14 | 1:05:17 | |
member for Westminster North's
proposed bill, I trust it will | 1:05:17 | 1:05:21 | |
receive a unanimous support across
the house, and I make the offer to | 1:05:21 | 1:05:26 | |
her that if she wishes me to serve
on the bill committee, I would be | 1:05:26 | 1:05:31 | |
delighted to do so to help her get
the bill through parliament. Rupert | 1:05:31 | 1:05:38 | |
Hook. It is a pleasure to follow my
dear neighbour in one direction and | 1:05:38 | 1:05:47 | |
also supporting the bill brought
before us from another west London | 1:05:47 | 1:05:51 | |
neighbour in another direction. My
friend for Westminster North. | 1:05:51 | 1:05:56 | |
Usually when legislation comes
before us as MPs, we have a | 1:05:56 | 1:05:59 | |
sophisticated lobbying operation
from people like change. Old and 38 | 1:05:59 | 1:06:05 | |
degrees that spam us with lots of
e-mails but for this bill the number | 1:06:05 | 1:06:08 | |
of people that have contacted me has
been far wider than that. Every | 1:06:08 | 1:06:14 | |
Friday at my surgery, which I will
do after I finish here today, cases | 1:06:14 | 1:06:16 | |
that come before me knowingly or
unknowingly are asking for this | 1:06:16 | 1:06:22 | |
legislation and we went past the
20,000 mark for individual cases | 1:06:22 | 1:06:27 | |
processed since 2015 in my office
and a large number of those are | 1:06:27 | 1:06:31 | |
housing issues, people come and show
you pictures of damp which is just | 1:06:31 | 1:06:36 | |
too big to be a case of by a spray
and, bang, the dirt is gone, it is a | 1:06:36 | 1:06:41 | |
bigger problem than that, sealing
scathing did or whatever, people | 1:06:41 | 1:06:46 | |
with rodent infestations where their
children cannot sleep because of the | 1:06:46 | 1:06:52 | |
gnawing that keeps them up, the
cases are a multitude, but I'm | 1:06:52 | 1:06:56 | |
getting a strange sense of deja vu
because in 2015I remember one of the | 1:06:56 | 1:07:00 | |
first things I spoke in was my
honourable friend's built with | 1:07:00 | 1:07:05 | |
precisely the same title and on that
occasion it was told that by the | 1:07:05 | 1:07:08 | |
other side which is why some of us
on this side were getting a bit | 1:07:08 | 1:07:11 | |
jittery when the honourable member
for Harrow was being a bit | 1:07:11 | 1:07:15 | |
loquacious just then, we are
relieved to hear that was not the | 1:07:15 | 1:07:18 | |
case, anyway. It is look for a
modern Conservative party that | 1:07:18 | 1:07:23 | |
opposed homes fit for human
habitation and I'm glad they have | 1:07:23 | 1:07:26 | |
seen the error of their ways and
will be supporting this legislation | 1:07:26 | 1:07:30 | |
today. I only want to be brief
because I don't want to do the same | 1:07:30 | 1:07:35 | |
again and talk ourselves out with
this bill today so I will be very | 1:07:35 | 1:07:38 | |
brief. The gaps behind it have
already been dealt with, the | 1:07:38 | 1:07:41 | |
difficulties of enforcement... What
with the other things? Everyone has | 1:07:41 | 1:07:48 | |
dealt with this. I wanted to draw
attention to fire safety, which is | 1:07:48 | 1:07:51 | |
not dealt with in the existing
legislation, and my honourable | 1:07:51 | 1:07:56 | |
friend and I have the a 40 between
us and other side of the a 40 is the | 1:07:56 | 1:08:00 | |
Grenfell Tower. I went past it
yesterday, anyone who lives in | 1:08:00 | 1:08:04 | |
Ealing and goes to central London by
road would, and the bird carcass in | 1:08:04 | 1:08:10 | |
the sky and one of the richest
boroughs in our nation, that used to | 1:08:10 | 1:08:14 | |
be the world's this largest economy,
I think now the sixth post Brexit | 1:08:14 | 1:08:18 | |
but that is a story we will not get
into now, but the fact that there | 1:08:18 | 1:08:22 | |
were people burned alive in their
homes because people pooh-poohed the | 1:08:22 | 1:08:26 | |
idea of legislation, people that
await the idea of health and safety | 1:08:26 | 1:08:31 | |
as meddlesome and troubling, and
when you don't take these concerns | 1:08:31 | 1:08:34 | |
seriously that is the logical
extension of what happens, and it is | 1:08:34 | 1:08:38 | |
something that shamed our nation. My
honourable friend mentioned at the | 1:08:38 | 1:08:42 | |
very start the powerful groups who
are backing her bill, the Law | 1:08:42 | 1:08:47 | |
Society, the National Housing
Federation, the chartered Institute | 1:08:47 | 1:08:50 | |
for environmental health, Shelter,
51 years ago their film Cathy Come | 1:08:50 | 1:08:57 | |
Home shocked the nation and Grenfell
I feel has shocked the nation a | 1:08:57 | 1:09:02 | |
second time. As I said, I will not
be long. What else was I going to | 1:09:02 | 1:09:06 | |
say? As an opposition MP, I'm into
holding the Government to account. | 1:09:06 | 1:09:12 | |
This legislation holds landlords to
recount where standards are not met | 1:09:12 | 1:09:15 | |
and I have to say last time this
came before... Well, no, actually, I | 1:09:15 | 1:09:23 | |
will just get this while I am here,
as a chair of an all-party part to | 1:09:23 | 1:09:29 | |
group on single-parent families, you
don't have Doobie want to be in our | 1:09:29 | 1:09:32 | |
group, by the way, quick plug there
-- you don't have to do B1, I am | 1:09:32 | 1:09:38 | |
quick to point out that the Joseph
Rowntree Foundation's figures show | 1:09:38 | 1:09:42 | |
single parents are more likely to
live in a substandard property than | 1:09:42 | 1:09:46 | |
any other family, 20% compared to a
national average of 7%, and the | 1:09:46 | 1:09:53 | |
English Housing Survey shows people
in poverty are more likely to live | 1:09:53 | 1:09:56 | |
in hazardous homes than those who
are not, so that is why this | 1:09:56 | 1:10:00 | |
legislation is needed. As I say, I
am pleased to see the Government's | 1:10:00 | 1:10:05 | |
change of heart. The last and this
came before the house, the Member | 1:10:05 | 1:10:09 | |
for Nuneaton scandalously said that
my honourable friend's proposals and | 1:10:09 | 1:10:13 | |
Labour Party proposals for things
like landlord licensing, I'm pleased | 1:10:13 | 1:10:18 | |
my borough of Ealing does have a
register of landlords, but the | 1:10:18 | 1:10:21 | |
honourable member for Nuneaton, said
this would result in an unnecessary | 1:10:21 | 1:10:28 | |
regulation and cost to landlords,
deter further investment and push up | 1:10:28 | 1:10:32 | |
rents for tenants. I think that is
scandalous, and I'm glad that this | 1:10:32 | 1:10:37 | |
Government, we have a new
Government, don't become a Prime | 1:10:37 | 1:10:40 | |
Minister who talked on the steps of
Downing Street about burning | 1:10:40 | 1:10:43 | |
injustice, so I'm glad they will put
their money where their mouth is and | 1:10:43 | 1:10:47 | |
back this legislation which I hope
will be a staging post after the | 1:10:47 | 1:10:52 | |
next general election for a
Government that is for the many, not | 1:10:52 | 1:10:54 | |
the few. | 1:10:54 | 1:11:04 | |
I will be brief, there are members
who wish to contribute. Can I | 1:11:04 | 1:11:09 | |
welcome the Minister to her place,
and congratulate my honourable | 1:11:09 | 1:11:14 | |
friend for all the work he did on
homelessness production. And the | 1:11:14 | 1:11:22 | |
lady for Westminster North for the
work over a number of years on this | 1:11:22 | 1:11:27 | |
issue, to make sure this can be
supported. | 1:11:27 | 1:11:33 | |
I note this Bill will grant tenants
the right to take action in courts | 1:11:33 | 1:11:38 | |
against landlords who failed to
ensure their property is fit for | 1:11:38 | 1:11:42 | |
human habitation and I know
colleagues today will identify and | 1:11:42 | 1:11:48 | |
recognise the stories that have been
pointed out about issues we have all | 1:11:48 | 1:11:54 | |
seen about damp, the lack of proper
drainage in some properties. I thank | 1:11:54 | 1:12:00 | |
her other half of constituents for
bringing this matter forward. And | 1:12:00 | 1:12:07 | |
picture beauty to the Citizens'
Advice Bureau in South | 1:12:07 | 1:12:11 | |
Gloucestershire and South Scottish
Council for all the work they have | 1:12:11 | 1:12:14 | |
done ahead of this debate. It is
clear the current system needs | 1:12:14 | 1:12:19 | |
updating, if a tenant is in unfit
property, the system allows local | 1:12:19 | 1:12:24 | |
authorities to assess whether it
contains serious risk and where it | 1:12:24 | 1:12:31 | |
does require the landlord to reduce
the risk or remove it completely. | 1:12:31 | 1:12:36 | |
The upshot being an offence is
committed only when a landlord fails | 1:12:36 | 1:12:41 | |
to comply with an enforcement
notice. This Bill is writing that | 1:12:41 | 1:12:50 | |
wrong. By putting the obligation on
land laws to keep their property in | 1:12:50 | 1:12:58 | |
good condition. There are already
statutory obligations to keep in | 1:12:58 | 1:13:02 | |
repair the structure and exterior of
properties. And ensure their | 1:13:02 | 1:13:10 | |
properties to be fit for habitation,
this has had to be addressed. When a | 1:13:10 | 1:13:24 | |
map -- when a landlord fails to
ensure a property is fit for | 1:13:24 | 1:13:30 | |
habitation, damp, ventilation, water
supply, we would take for granted in | 1:13:30 | 1:13:34 | |
our own lives all of this, this Bill
empowers tenants to take action in | 1:13:34 | 1:13:42 | |
court to hold their landlord to
account where there has been a | 1:13:42 | 1:13:46 | |
failing, to apply for an injunction.
Does he agree the fact a tenant can | 1:13:46 | 1:13:55 | |
get damages is a huge improvement in
this Bill, particularly because | 1:13:55 | 1:14:00 | |
living in substandard accommodation,
for example, with mould or damp, can | 1:14:00 | 1:14:08 | |
be depressing, have an effect on
your mental health, and that | 1:14:08 | 1:14:13 | |
punitive element of damages will
make a real difference in terms of | 1:14:13 | 1:14:17 | |
enforcement and hopefully in terms
of lawyers taking forward and | 1:14:17 | 1:14:22 | |
enforcing rights?
She is right, this Bill doesn't just | 1:14:22 | 1:14:30 | |
give the power to hold landlords to
account by making them carry out | 1:14:30 | 1:14:37 | |
works but gives the power to
instruct compensation as well. This | 1:14:37 | 1:14:48 | |
Bill manages to achieve that while
still being proportionate, it is not | 1:14:48 | 1:14:55 | |
overly burdensome on landlords
because of the simple principle it | 1:14:55 | 1:14:58 | |
should not increase costs or create
compass and work because landlords | 1:14:58 | 1:15:02 | |
are already providing good service
to tenants and good quality | 1:15:02 | 1:15:09 | |
accommodation, the vast majority
are. It will push landlords to act | 1:15:09 | 1:15:15 | |
proactively, creating a ripple
effect in the industry to create a | 1:15:15 | 1:15:19 | |
culture where the industry is more a
safety and people first culture. It | 1:15:19 | 1:15:27 | |
protects to Koech -- landlords from
spurious claims where the property | 1:15:27 | 1:15:34 | |
isn't being used for the purpose it
is being let or pushing landlords to | 1:15:34 | 1:15:38 | |
be responsible for repair for items
where the tenant can remove it from | 1:15:38 | 1:15:46 | |
the property. One landlord contacted
me this morning welcome the Bill | 1:15:46 | 1:15:52 | |
because it is not seen as a threat
but supporting the industry by | 1:15:52 | 1:15:57 | |
enhancing the reputation of the vast
majority of landlords. I will | 1:15:57 | 1:16:04 | |
conclude and say this Bill empowers
tenants, the text landlords, dries | 1:16:04 | 1:16:09 | |
up standard across both sectors, I
look forward to supporting it today. | 1:16:09 | 1:16:17 | |
Thank you. I wish to pay tribute to
my honourable friend for Westminster | 1:16:17 | 1:16:25 | |
North for bringing this Bill and
would like to pay tribute to the | 1:16:25 | 1:16:31 | |
honourable member for Sheffield
South East for the debate in | 1:16:31 | 1:16:34 | |
Westminster Hall yesterday on
supported housing. While this was | 1:16:34 | 1:16:38 | |
not exactly the same issue, there is
the issue that many tenants we are | 1:16:38 | 1:16:44 | |
talking about here are very
vulnerable and clearly there is a | 1:16:44 | 1:16:49 | |
benefit to society for enabling the
maximum number to lead independent | 1:16:49 | 1:16:53 | |
lives and some other people who are
not currently able to gain redress | 1:16:53 | 1:16:58 | |
for inadequate housing run the risk
of ending up in supported housing or | 1:16:58 | 1:17:04 | |
hospital.
Last weekend, I called on a couple | 1:17:04 | 1:17:09 | |
who invited me to that act to show
me the mould that had grown around | 1:17:09 | 1:17:14 | |
the bathroom, in their sitting room
and the bedroom. They live in a | 1:17:14 | 1:17:20 | |
council flat in Ipswich. I was able
to pass on their details to the | 1:17:20 | 1:17:25 | |
local councillors in the expectation
that something will be done to | 1:17:25 | 1:17:29 | |
rectify the situation. The council
doesn't always get things right. I | 1:17:29 | 1:17:34 | |
believe Ipswich Borough housing is
an exemplar of good practice but | 1:17:34 | 1:17:39 | |
even good landlords get things wrong
sometimes. That is why it is | 1:17:39 | 1:17:44 | |
important this Bill will apply to
local authority housing properties | 1:17:44 | 1:17:48 | |
in the same way as private rented
accommodation. It impacts more on | 1:17:48 | 1:17:54 | |
those public sector tenants who need
help because whereas a private | 1:17:54 | 1:17:59 | |
sector tenants might hold up some
hope they could persuade the local | 1:17:59 | 1:18:03 | |
council to act legally on their
behalf, a council is not going to | 1:18:03 | 1:18:07 | |
take out a legal case against
itself. One would hope accountable | 1:18:07 | 1:18:13 | |
local authorities would take their
responsibilities to tenants | 1:18:13 | 1:18:16 | |
seriously to rectify unfitness
without the need for legal recourse. | 1:18:16 | 1:18:22 | |
Unfortunately, that is not the case.
In those cases, council tenants have | 1:18:22 | 1:18:28 | |
no recourse to the law at all. This
Bill will enable council tenants to | 1:18:28 | 1:18:33 | |
take legal action if no action were
taken to put right any unfitness | 1:18:33 | 1:18:40 | |
just as it will to private sector
tenants. I know members opposite | 1:18:40 | 1:18:44 | |
would not be willing to accept a
bill that unfairly favoured public | 1:18:44 | 1:18:49 | |
sector housing over private sector
housing. This Bill does not do so. I | 1:18:49 | 1:18:56 | |
could wish that in the interests of
fairness and a level playing field | 1:18:56 | 1:19:00 | |
the members opposite might consider
other measures for the private | 1:19:00 | 1:19:05 | |
sector and changes to the law and
regulations for the local authority | 1:19:05 | 1:19:09 | |
sector but I think that is for
another day. | 1:19:09 | 1:19:14 | |
While this Bill does afford an
important and necessary protection | 1:19:14 | 1:19:18 | |
to council and housing association
tenants, the problem also exists in | 1:19:18 | 1:19:22 | |
private sector. In the East of
England, 20% of private sector | 1:19:22 | 1:19:27 | |
rental stock is a mistake that pose
a serious risk to health, as | 1:19:27 | 1:19:31 | |
compared with 8% of the Council and
housing association stock. In my 20 | 1:19:31 | 1:19:37 | |
years as a local councillor I was
constantly being contacted by | 1:19:37 | 1:19:42 | |
residents who showed me mouldy
walls, dodgy doors, awkward entrance | 1:19:42 | 1:19:48 | |
halls, rickety windows. I would
raise these issues | 1:19:48 | 1:20:01 | |
with council officers but in almost
every case was told there was no | 1:20:04 | 1:20:07 | |
action, the council could take with
the private sector landlord on these | 1:20:07 | 1:20:10 | |
matters. This Bill will empower the
tenants to demand safe and healthy | 1:20:10 | 1:20:12 | |
homes from their landlords. I do not
believe there will be any rash of | 1:20:12 | 1:20:15 | |
prosecutions as a result. I believe
it will focus the minds of those | 1:20:15 | 1:20:17 | |
landlords private and public who do
not currently pay enough attention | 1:20:17 | 1:20:20 | |
to the welfare of their tenants, and
encourage them to provide the level | 1:20:20 | 1:20:25 | |
of service which 75% of landlords
are already providing. All good | 1:20:25 | 1:20:31 | |
landlord should welcome this Bill.
Why should the scent of a percent | 1:20:31 | 1:20:35 | |
who provide fit and proper housing
be undercut by rogue operators who | 1:20:35 | 1:20:39 | |
see their sector tarred with the
brush of shoddy flat convergence? I | 1:20:39 | 1:20:46 | |
look forward to this Bill becoming
law. | 1:20:46 | 1:20:56 | |
Could I join colleagues in
congratulating the honourable lady | 1:20:56 | 1:20:59 | |
for Westminster North in bringing
forward this Bill and her opening | 1:20:59 | 1:21:04 | |
speech today which I thought set out
very well why this Bill is so | 1:21:04 | 1:21:09 | |
important. It is addressing a very
important issue not just the sum of | 1:21:09 | 1:21:15 | |
my own constituents but across the
country. Whilst I join colleagues on | 1:21:15 | 1:21:22 | |
both sides of the House in
recognising the vast majority of | 1:21:22 | 1:21:26 | |
private landlords are not rogue
landlords, they act very responsibly | 1:21:26 | 1:21:32 | |
and provide their tenants with
excellent accommodation and service, | 1:21:32 | 1:21:38 | |
the reality is there are a small
minority who exploit some of the | 1:21:38 | 1:21:43 | |
most vulnerable in society, and this
Bill is important in addressing | 1:21:43 | 1:21:47 | |
that. I am very pleased the
Government has decided to support | 1:21:47 | 1:21:51 | |
the Bill today and I add my support
to that. The garment has already | 1:21:51 | 1:21:59 | |
made good progress, since 2010,
introducing powers for local | 1:21:59 | 1:22:04 | |
authorities and with that £12
million to help them identify and | 1:22:04 | 1:22:08 | |
prosecute some of the worst
offenders. 70,000 properties have | 1:22:08 | 1:22:13 | |
been inspected and 5000 landlords
have had further action taken or | 1:22:13 | 1:22:20 | |
even had prosecution brought
thereafter. So too has the | 1:22:20 | 1:22:24 | |
Government brought in measures to
protect tenants against retaliatory | 1:22:24 | 1:22:30 | |
evictions and last year further
measures were brought in on rogue | 1:22:30 | 1:22:34 | |
landlords leading to penalties of up
to £30,000. That is very welcome | 1:22:34 | 1:22:38 | |
indeed. But those measures alone as
the Government recognises are not | 1:22:38 | 1:22:46 | |
enough and there is more...
I give way. He missed out on | 1:22:46 | 1:22:49 | |
regulation, on the minimum energy
efficiency standards I brought to | 1:22:49 | 1:22:55 | |
this House on the private rental
sector which could be a huge attack | 1:22:55 | 1:23:02 | |
on fuel poverty. Will he ensure the
Government implements it from April | 1:23:02 | 1:23:06 | |
this year so we can tackle fuel
poverty and the worst examples of | 1:23:06 | 1:23:12 | |
uninsulated homes in the private
rental sector? | 1:23:12 | 1:23:16 | |
He and I are fellow travellers in
our enthusiasm for home energy | 1:23:16 | 1:23:21 | |
efficiency and that is where I was
to move on. I fear he may need to | 1:23:21 | 1:23:26 | |
stay for a while during the
statement to hear both parts of my | 1:23:26 | 1:23:31 | |
thoughts on home energy efficiency.
The Government has brought in | 1:23:31 | 1:23:39 | |
excellent legislation, there is more
to do which the Government has | 1:23:39 | 1:23:45 | |
recognised and this Bill is hugely
important addressing what remains to | 1:23:45 | 1:23:48 | |
be done.
As he said, one of the key parts in | 1:23:48 | 1:23:55 | |
ensuring homes are fit for
habitation is in how well insulated | 1:23:55 | 1:24:00 | |
they are and how efficient they are
with their energy. Too many people | 1:24:00 | 1:24:05 | |
live in fuel poverty, not
necessarily because they haven't the | 1:24:05 | 1:24:11 | |
money to heat their property, but
because their property is so poorly | 1:24:11 | 1:24:15 | |
insulated and the appliance so
inefficient that the costs of | 1:24:15 | 1:24:21 | |
heating are actually
disproportionate to what they should | 1:24:21 | 1:24:24 | |
be if all those measures were
adequately in place. We have to | 1:24:24 | 1:24:28 | |
start to move on from an argument
that says all that matters in | 1:24:28 | 1:24:34 | |
housing is providing it at the most
affordable cost to rent or buy. | 1:24:34 | 1:24:39 | |
Equally important surely is what it
costs to live in that property each | 1:24:39 | 1:24:45 | |
month thereafter. I would argue very
much in talking today about homes | 1:24:45 | 1:24:52 | |
that are fit for human habitation,
we should be focused very much on | 1:24:52 | 1:24:56 | |
making sure the houses people are
living in not only affordable to | 1:24:56 | 1:25:03 | |
rent but affordable to live in each
month and that requires much higher | 1:25:03 | 1:25:09 | |
expectations of landlords when it
comes to the home energy efficiency | 1:25:09 | 1:25:15 | |
measures and installation within
their properties. One member of the | 1:25:15 | 1:25:19 | |
set in the second speech, in an
intervention, had a startling | 1:25:19 | 1:25:27 | |
statistic about the cost each year
to the NHS of people living in the | 1:25:27 | 1:25:32 | |
poorly insulated homes. That figure
was 1.4 billion, which seems to me a | 1:25:32 | 1:25:40 | |
good reason for why we should make
it more a priority to have better | 1:25:40 | 1:25:46 | |
insulated homes so people can live
in comfort but be able to afford to | 1:25:46 | 1:25:49 | |
live in their home. | 1:25:49 | 1:25:54 |