14/03/2018 House of Commons


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14/03/2018

Live coverage of the day's proceedings in the House of Commons, including the first of a two-day general debate on European affairs.


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in that inquiry finding as to how it

relates to his I will be strategy.

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Very happy to meet with the

honourable lady.

Perfect ending. We

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now come to the ten minute rule

motion.

Thank you I beg to move that

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leave be given to bring in a about

about supervised drug consumption

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facilities. One of my constituents

mentioned to me on Monday that

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Glasgow already has drug consumption

facilities behind the bushes near

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his flat. They are in his close when

it rains and in bench Schettlers.

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Public toilets where drug users can

grasp the tiny bit of privacy for as

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long as it takes to prepare and

inject their fix. They are often

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alone and too Regevly drug users

will die as a result. As a society

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we can and we must do much better

than that. There is a real and

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persistent issue in Glasgow. In 2016

there were 2,593 drug-related deaths

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registered in England and Wales. 867

registered in Scotland. 257 in the

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city of Glasgow. We have an ageing

population of people with long-term

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problem drug use. They are

increasingly run be rabl and require

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particular interventions to reduce

harm and encourage them to engage in

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health services. This ageing

population who are in deteriorating

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health. Due to their sustained drug

use they have aged 15 years greater

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than their actual age. They have

above population incidents including

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liver disease, skin infections,

depression and psychosis. They are

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vulnerable to overdose and emergency

hospital admission. The Scottish

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drugs forum carried out research

interviews with a group of older

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people with a drug problem. They

feel strongly they have been left

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behind and seen as aest with a of

space. There needs to be a

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recognition by this House that the

programmes will not necessarily work

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for everyone and that harm reduction

and support will be better and more

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worthwhile interventions for a group

of people who have not managed to

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eliminate drug use in the proceeding

decades. Evidence shows that

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long-term engagement is a positive

factor. People in Glasgow who will

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use this facility are not in

treatment. It would get them through

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the door and provide social and

medical support tole stabilise their

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lives. The report reducing

drug-related deaths in recommends

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that.

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The report. Cites evidence which

demonstrates the facilities reduce

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injecting behaviours and overdose

fatalities. They have been estimated

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to save more money than they cost

due to the reductions in deaths and

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HIV infection they produce. They do

not increase injection, drug use or

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crime rates. They can provide other

benefits such as reductions in blood

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born viruses and primary care and

intensive form of drug treatments.

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No deaths from overdoses have ever

occurred in such facilities. Madame

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Deputy Speaker Glasgow has a

proposal. A well-worked through

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business case which has supported by

the Scottish Government. Drug law

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remains reserved to Westminster and

Scottish ministers have requested

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permission from the Home Office to

allow for the proposal to go ahead.

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It's not yet been granted. It has

potential to reduce deaths and

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integrated service and as

recommended, not just a shooting

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gallery. It will allow for

engagement with the population who

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are not being assisted very well at

all. Medically trained staff who

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supervise and minister drugs should

it be required. Some may say that

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this is an unnecessary expense. I

should say to the ministers it will

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cost them nothing. For Glasgow there

is a significant cost in not doing

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this. A cost in treating the latest

HIVout break and treat be HepC and

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other conditions. Hospital

admissions and ambulance call-outs

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and police time dealing with

complaints. The significant cost in

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clearing up discarded needles,

residents being charged by a problem

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not of their making and the council

picking up the tab for public

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spaces. Housing Associations are

clearing up areas of hundreds of

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discarded syringes. A constituent

phoned me to say there are syringes

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on her doorstep. Residents can be

pricked by a contaminated needle and

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the cost in human lives. We should

consider all these cost that is we

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are currently paying in a situation

that helps no-one. Heroin assisted

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treatment has been mentioned as an

alternative to supervised drugs

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consumption. Room. I would like to

touch on limitations for this. I

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would like to stress while this can

be a treatment for whom many other

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interventions have failed it's not

suitable for everyone. Capacity and

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cost issues. Glasgow city centre is

thought to have a population in the

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region of 500 injecting drug users.

The Glasgow health and social care

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partnership believe they would have

capacity for 40 to 60 individuals

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for heroin assisted treatment and

only when the service is running to

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full capacity. That will not happen

sometime yet. It requires two

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separate licences to operate, a

premises licence in the gift of the

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Home Office and a prescribers

licence depending on the premises

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licence. It's not a simple process.

It's been developed alongside the

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proposal for a supervised drug

consumption facility. To operate

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supervised drug consumption facility

requires the consent of the Home

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Office. Operating, working in and

using the facility requires

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protection in law.

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Madam Deputy Speaker, the supporters

of this bill come from a range of

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parties. In a letter I wrote to the

Home Secretary earlier this year, it

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garnered the same cross-party

support from across Scotland. I'm

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particularly grateful to the

honourable member from Stirling he

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said we should reach out to those in

the grip of drug abuse and do what

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we can to help them escape. This is

very much a step in that direction.

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Madam Deputy Speaker, in my 11 years

as an elected member in Glasgow, the

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issue of drug-taking has been a

constant. I have seen various police

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initiatives shunt people around, I

have seen the council clear up the

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mess at significant cost and

significant risks to their workers,

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I have seen workers at their wits

end, worried about what they will

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open the door to in the morning,

drug, excrement and used syringes on

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their doorsteps regularly, daily. I

have seen vulnerable and desperate

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men and women injecting into their

groin and head in public places as

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they have nowhere else to go. And I

have listened to heartbreak and

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families who have lost loved ones.

If it was their choice, they would

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not have their loved one die alone

in a dirty backroom. They would want

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a medical facility where help could

be sought. The status quo says none

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of these people well. I cannot

accept that this is the best we can

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do. It is unacceptable. We must try

something different. I accept that

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it may not work but we must at least

try. Today, as international ask a

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question day, my question of the UK

Government is this. Glasgow has a

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plan which could reduce drug

nuisance to residents, reduce drug

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use. Will the UK Government allow us

to get on with this?

The question is

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that the honourable member has leave

to bring in the bill. As many of

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that opinion is a aye. Aye. I think

the ayes habit. The ayes have it.

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They will prepare and bring in the

Bill?

Crispin Blunt, Mr Alistair

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Carmichael, Joanna Cherry, row and

Alan, Liz Lovell Roberts, Paul

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Sweeney, and myself.

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Supervised drug communities Bill.

Second reading which day? Friday

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27th of April. Thank you.

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Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I

rise point of order to seek your

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guidance as to what Parliamentary

procedure might be available to

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available to me to get a reply from

the Home Office on matters relating

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to my constituents. Four months ago

to the day I wrote to the then

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Minister of State in the Home Office

asking him whether he would review

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the support line at UK VI because

most staff were unable to get

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information. Four months later I

have received no reply despite many

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reminders. Madam Deputy Speaker, the

problem remains in the meantime and

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I feel that this lack of support

from UK VI is compromising my

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ability as an elected member to

represent my constituents who are in

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very grave circumstances so I seek

your direction as to what can be

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done to make the home Department to

respond.

I thank the honourable

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member for giving me notice that he

wished to raise this matter. It is

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obviously unsatisfactory that he has

had to wait for such a long time to

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receive a response. But I am sure

his concern has been heard on the

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Treasury bench and will be conveyed

to the Home Office? Thank you.

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Meanwhile, he has obviously made his

dissatisfaction clear and is now on

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the record. With no further points

of order, we now come to the general

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debate on European affairs. The

theme of the day's debate is

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International Trade and called a

minister.

Madam Deputy Speaker,

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first, can I welcome that we are

having this debate and perhaps

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returning to the tradition of

pre-European Council debate here in

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the House of Commons. I used to take

part in those twice yearly debate

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and I checked my last contribution

made in June 2000 and eight. And I

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reminded myself that I, like so many

others on these benches, called for

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a new approach in Europe in the

immediate aftermath of the Irish

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rejection of the Lisbon Treaty. But

the purpose of the day's debaters

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not to dwell on missed opportunities

in the past and reflect on what

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might have been had the EU itself

reformed. We are here to look to the

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future. The Department for

International Trade is that the very

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centre of that bright future. Before

we turn to the future of our trade

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with Europe and the negotiations

under way, I think it's important to

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take stock of what we have achieved

so far. The joint report issued in

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September that other financial

settlement just as we said we would.

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It agrees to avoid a hard border in

Ireland was respecting the UK's

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integrity which was added one of the

Government's priorities for these

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negotiations. And, very importantly,

its safeguard the rights of EU

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citizens living in the UK and UK

nationals living abroad which the

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Prime Minister has always said was

her first priority. Indeed, Madam

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Deputy Speaker, 17% of my

constituents in Chelsea and Phil are

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nationals of other EU countries. I

have personally put in a lot of time

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and effort in outreach to them.

Indeed, my wife is an EU national

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and I can report to the House at the

December agreement landed very well

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amongst EU nationals in Chelsea and

Phil. Madam Deputy Speaker, Ireland,

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the budget and citizens rights.

These are the strong foundations for

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the ongoing negotiations and we

should all welcome the progress made

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on them. Of course.

Will the

Minister acknowledge that there are

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still very serious concerns about

what is going to happen to preserve

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an invisible border on the island of

Ireland, a border with no physical

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infrastructure, and there is

actually seemingly a

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misunderstanding in some parts

between what will actually meant by

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the fallback option of full

alignment?

We have been absolutely

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clear, we will of course be abiding

by the December agreement in full.

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Just a reminder, the three

priorities that we laid out was a

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strong commitment to avoid a hard

border, but also to preserve the

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integrity of the UK market. I would

remind her that that is a very

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important market for the people of

Northern Ireland, to have access to

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the UK market, and also that no UK

Prime Minister could axe that a new

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border down the Irish Sea. We are

also making strong progress now

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trading relationships outside the

EU. My primary responsibility as the

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Minister for trade policy is that

area.

Yes, of course. Following up

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from that point, the Prime Minister

at Prime Minister's Questions

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repeated her full commitment to the

December agreement on Ireland. Does

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that therefore mean when he said no

hard border, that means no physical

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infrastructure, I issued -- I

assume. Of course I accept there

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will not be a border across the

Irish Sea, but does Harry accept

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that if there is no other way of

achieving it, we will have the full

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regulatory convergence to which the

Government signed up in December?

I

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thank my right honourable friend for

his intervention. What I would say

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and reiterate of course what the

Prime Minister said at Mansion House

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and what you said at Prime

Minister's Questions this week of

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course still stands. I refer my

right honourable friend back to the

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papers published by the Department

for exiting the European Union last

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summer in terms of how a border, a

proper border between the two parts

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of Ireland, and the effectuate it

through the two possible types of

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customs agreement between the UK and

the European Union.

Of course. I

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asked the Prime Minister during the

statement and I have listened to her

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about paragraph 27 of the December

agreement which talks about the

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mapping exercise being undertaken

about North-South co-operation. Will

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the Government commit to publishing

that mapping exercise?

Madam Deputy

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Speaker, of course the Government is

undertaking analysis on so many

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different factors involved in this

particular arrangement and this

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particular question. We have always

made clear our commitment to ensure

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that the House is properly appraised

of all other relevant facts when it

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comes to examine the actual

withdrawal agreement in due course.

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As are preparing the ground at the

Department of International trade,

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Department of International trade

ministers have made over 100

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overseas visits in the last year and

a half. We have set up 14 trade

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working groups covering 21

countries. These are ones with

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substantial market sums. None of

this would have been possible

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without the excellent work of our

Department for International Trade

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staff both at home and imposed in

108 countries around the world and I

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would like first of all to put on

record my thanks for their hard

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work, professionalism and invaluable

expertise. But Madam Deputy

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Speaker... Of course give way.

I'm

grateful to the Minister for giving

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way and he is right to pay tribute

to his department's staff and has he

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need to the comments of the recent

former permanent secretary of his

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department of the effect that non-EU

trade, if we are to leave the

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European Union, will not be able to

make up for the lost trade with the

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EU that we enjoy now? And secondly,

can I ask him with regards to the

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Secretary of State, his Secretary of

State was part of a campaign which

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promised we could start negotiating

new trade agreements with non-EU

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countries as soon as we agreed to

leave. Can he tell me how many of

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these are being negotiated right

now?

First of all, the honourable

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member knows full well that it isn't

an either or situation. It is not a

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choice between having trade with the

European Union or with the rest of

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the world. The Government's

objectives are clear, which is to

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secure a deep and cobranded

partnership with the European Union

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whilst still being crucially outside

of the customs union to be able to

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pursue an independent trade policy

and to secure those trade agreements

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with the rest of the world. In terms

of what was said during campaigns,

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all I would say to him is that I

believe that the payment of

0:18:400:18:44

International Trade has the

capability in place, we have built

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up the department to make sure that

we are able to, I mentioned the 14

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trade working groups, we are clearly

not able to carry out a tray biggish

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nation whilst we are still members

of the European Union. So at the

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same hand, he seems to be a

demanding that we are having these

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negotiations and B, saying that we

should stay in the European Union,

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which would prevent us from having

the negotiations on the first place.

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I give way to my honourable friend.

I begged my honourable friend for

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giving way. Does he agree with me

that given the incredible depth and

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complexity of the UK's trade with

Europe, there is no off-the-shelf

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solution from any other trade

relationship that fits? And were on

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the issue of what happens at our

customs, does he agree that if we

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are to have this frictionless trade,

there is clearly going to need to be

0:19:380:19:43

some form of agreement for what

happens at our customs, such as a

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partnership or another type of

agreement butter I thank my

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honourable friend for that

intervention.

She is right. There is

0:19:520:19:57

no off-the-shelf agreement that

would be suitable in this case. We

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are clear that we are seeking a

bespoke arrangement between the

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United Kingdom and the European

Union. Neither something like seater

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or the EEA would be suitable. In

terms of a corporation, we are clear

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in seeking to have a good agreement

with the European Union that creates

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trade as frictionless as possible as

we go forward across all our

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borders, not just the internal

border within the island of Ireland.

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Can I take him back to the

appearance moment ago of the former

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permanent secretary? When Mr

Connelly was interviewed on the

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today programme that morning, so

keen worthy presenters to get his

0:20:380:20:45

sound bite about the packet of

crisps, they gave no analysis

0:20:450:20:49

whatsoever to his figures which were

about 10% awry from those issued by

0:20:490:20:55

the National statistics office. Did

the department do any digging into

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where his figures came from?

I think

my honourable friend tempts me down

0:20:580:21:07

a path which I think I ought to

resist in terms of I'm not exactly

0:21:070:21:11

sure what figures the former

permanent secretary used, but what I

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am clear run is that the figures are

clear. European Union trade is

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extremely important to this country

but it is nonetheless a declining

0:21:190:21:24

part of our overall trade, down from

56% of our overall trade in 2006 to

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just 43% today. Madam Deputy

Speaker, I'm going to make a little

0:21:300:21:34

bit of progress. We are not working

purely on non-EU trade. A common

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misconception is that the de IT is a

purely Brexit apartment. Our ongoing

0:21:400:21:45

work encourages export to trade in

Europe and outside of it. The

0:21:450:21:56

Department of International Trade

has 300 staff across continental

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Europe and I myself have visited 16

European visits to ten European

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countries whilst being in this

position as have all of our

0:22:020:22:07

ministerial team including the

Secretary of State. We have

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brilliant teams. Brilliant teams in

commercial centres right across

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Europe. I give way to my right

honourable friend.

0:22:140:22:20

Can we just returned to the comments

made by Sir Martin Connolly? I don't

0:22:210:22:27

think the record will be accurate.

We have heard mention of a bag of

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crisps. He said that based on his

experience, 15 years and beyond

0:22:310:22:37

specifically in the area of trade,

was that in effect our country was

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embarking upon a course where we

were about to swap the equivalent of

0:22:430:22:46

a three course meal for a bag of

crisps. Could my right honourable

0:22:460:22:50

friend help us with this? Has he

seen the government's on analysis of

0:22:500:22:56

the various options available to us

that show, that even if we get a

0:22:560:23:00

trade deal with every single country

with whom we don't have one by

0:23:000:23:05

virtue of our membership of the

European Union, which is about 50,

0:23:050:23:10

we would still not be as prosperous

as we are now by virtue of our

0:23:100:23:17

membership of the European Union.

I

thank my right honourable friend for

0:23:170:23:20

that lengthy intervention. What I

would say is that there is no such

0:23:200:23:27

analysis, Madam Deputy Speaker, of

the kind she describes. What I am

0:23:270:23:34

clear on is it is our objective to

maintain frictionless trade with the

0:23:340:23:38

European Union as we go forward. It

is our objective to conduct an

0:23:380:23:43

independent trade policy, and to

seek a trade agreements when the

0:23:430:23:46

time is right with those partners.

It is also our objective is to seek

0:23:460:23:51

the continuity in existing EU trade

agreements for the UK, which I note

0:23:510:23:56

the party opposite voted against on

the second reading of the trade

0:23:560:24:00

bill, that they are actually opposed

to was seeking the continuity of

0:24:000:24:06

existing trade agreements. Martin

Depper disfigure... I will give way.

0:24:060:24:10

I am grateful. I would like to go

back to the analysis that was

0:24:100:24:17

published by the government, in

particular the risk presented by

0:24:170:24:21

nontariff barriers. It was clear in

the analysis that even if we had an

0:24:210:24:30

agreement, there would still be

damage to the UK economy. Is the

0:24:300:24:35

minister saying that he wants EA

plus?

Madine Deputy Speaker, I

0:24:350:24:45

understand the intervention board

the government has been clear from

0:24:450:24:49

more than a year since the Lancaster

House speech, that our objective is

0:24:490:24:53

not to seek an E E A start

agreement. It is our objective to

0:24:530:25:02

seek a deep and comprehensive

agreement with the European Union.

0:25:020:25:05

The like of which, I would remind my

honourable friend, who studies these

0:25:050:25:10

matters very carefully, the like of

which was not one modelled in those

0:25:100:25:16

analyses. That was the most

important point. I will give a few

0:25:160:25:21

examples of our work around Europe.

I promoted the UK defence industry

0:25:210:25:25

in Sweden. Visiting Saab, whose new

fighter jet could be worth £1.1

0:25:250:25:31

billion to UK industry. I and my

colleagues engaged with the Polish

0:25:310:25:37

government on behalf of UK

governments to discuss high-value

0:25:370:25:40

retail opportunities in the Czech

Republic. I have addressed Chambers

0:25:400:25:47

of commerce, and my colleagues from

the IT have addressed Chambers of

0:25:470:25:51

commerce, right the way across the

European Union, Austria, Hungary,

0:25:510:25:56

Bulgaria and others. And I enjoyed

making use of language skills when I

0:25:560:26:00

gave speeches in German. The

Department of trade's relationship

0:26:000:26:10

with Europe does not just extend to

export. The vote to leave the EU was

0:26:100:26:16

not evolved to undermine the EU. It

is important to undermine that --

0:26:160:26:22

underline that it is in our interest

to have a strong European Union. We

0:26:220:26:26

are continuing to engage

constructively in ongoing EU trade

0:26:260:26:30

policy, as we currently are a full

and equal member. We are working

0:26:300:26:36

closely with our European partners

as well as bilaterally to respond to

0:26:360:26:40

President Trump's decision to impose

tariffs on imported steel and

0:26:400:26:44

aluminium. We are committed to

ratifying the Ceta agreement which

0:26:440:26:51

provisionally came into effect in

September. I was delighted, Madam

0:26:510:26:55

Deputy Speaker, that when we did so

we were joined by 86 Labour MPs,

0:26:550:27:01

many in this chamber at the moment,

in defiance of their front bench to

0:27:010:27:07

support the EU trade agenda in

making sure that seat was passed in

0:27:070:27:10

defiance of the party whip. In 40 --

voting for this important agreement

0:27:100:27:16

with Justin Trudeau's Canada. I have

attended four trade ministers'

0:27:160:27:27

foreign affairs councils. The

commission has been particularly

0:27:270:27:32

focusing on agreements with South

America's union and with Mexico. We

0:27:320:27:38

continue to support the ongoing

negotiations were both free trade

0:27:380:27:42

agreements. On Mexico we would like

to see progress made wherever

0:27:420:27:46

possible in the negotiations,

although we recognise the complexity

0:27:460:27:50

of Nafta renegotiations running in

parallel. We will continue our

0:27:500:27:54

support for EU members at trade

negotiations and would like to

0:27:540:27:59

emphasise the urgent need to

progress the trade component. It is

0:27:590:28:03

essential to keep momentum and

achieved a swift political

0:28:030:28:06

agreement. Another high-profile

agreement is the EU Japan so it can

0:28:060:28:15

be signed during the Japanese

President's visit to Brussels this

0:28:150:28:19

year. As a champion of free trade

the UK has been one of the strongest

0:28:190:28:24

advocates, I actually believe the

strongest advocate, of this. We

0:28:240:28:28

warmly welcome the work of both

sides to reach this agreement, which

0:28:280:28:32

will support global prosperity. We

continue to engage constructively on

0:28:320:28:37

EU business and with our European

partners, and we continue to push UK

0:28:370:28:42

trade and investment to businesses

on the European continent. It is

0:28:420:28:44

important that our trade agreement

-- engagement includes Europe,

0:28:440:28:50

because our nearest and largest

neighbour will always be of great

0:28:500:28:53

importance. Now I often hear the

criticism that trade deals outside

0:28:530:28:58

the EU cannot make up for the loss

in EU trade. It has been referred to

0:28:580:29:02

by a couple of interventions

earlier. As I say, this is not an

0:29:020:29:07

either or choice. I can assure the

House that the government fully

0:29:070:29:12

understands the importance of EU

trade. The EU is our largest trading

0:29:120:29:16

partner, 43% of export and 54%

imports. This shows the importance

0:29:160:29:27

of making cross-border trade as free

and as frictionless as possible.

0:29:270:29:31

That is why it is important that we

get our relationship with Europe

0:29:310:29:34

right. And the right relationship...

I will give way.

Will the future of

0:29:340:29:44

frictionless trade be better than it

is now?

What I have said is we are

0:29:440:29:52

seeking a good comprehensive, deep,

wide trade partnership with the

0:29:520:29:56

European Union, as frictionless as

possible. That is why the right

0:29:560:29:59

relationship is this deep,

comprehensive and unique free-trade

0:29:590:30:01

agreement with Europe are based on

the principles the Prime Minister

0:30:010:30:08

set out throughout 2017, and in her

speech a fortnight ago, and opposing

0:30:080:30:13

Labour's latest Brexit policy of

keeping the UK in the Customs Union

0:30:130:30:23

with the EU. We want to have the

greatest possible tariff and barrier

0:30:230:30:27

free trade with our European

neighbours, as well as to negotiate

0:30:270:30:30

our own trade agreement around the

world. I give way to the member from

0:30:300:30:34

the Liberal Democrats.

In pursuit of

this future relationship, can he

0:30:340:30:39

update the House on the progress

that has been made in relation to

0:30:390:30:43

the continuity of trading terms,

especially in relation to product

0:30:430:30:50

designation orders and

geographically identifiable

0:30:500:30:56

products? Last week the Secretary of

State for Scotland told me there

0:30:560:30:59

would be absolutely no change and

that that can be guaranteed.

0:30:590:31:04

Yesterday, the minister of state at

Dev are said absolutely nothing

0:31:040:31:09

could be done. Which is correct? --

Defra.

It is a bit rich. On the one

0:31:090:31:18

hand he votes against EU Withdrawal

Bill, and then he calls for

0:31:180:31:21

something that is a consequence of

that not to happen. That is creating

0:31:210:31:27

a new scheme in the UK which we will

be doing in consultation with the

0:31:270:31:31

devolved administrations, to make

sure that we continue the protection

0:31:310:31:35

of the UK's 84 registered GIs within

the UK. That is the objective of

0:31:350:31:41

this government, which I would hope

he would support. I will make some

0:31:410:31:44

progress. I know there have been

questions as to why we would want a

0:31:440:31:53

bespoke trade agreement rather than

taking one of the shelf, which the

0:31:530:31:56

argument goes would be easier to

negotiate. I would like to remind

0:31:560:32:00

the House of the government's

reasons for choosing this over

0:32:000:32:03

existing models. And why whatever

model you choose, it must involve

0:32:030:32:11

leaving the Customs Union. In Norway

style deal may seem superficially

0:32:110:32:16

attractive but will be subject to

new rules the commission chose to

0:32:160:32:19

enact automatically and in their

entirety with no end point. Most

0:32:190:32:24

importantly, we would have little

influence on those rules and No

0:32:240:32:28

vote, which would be too much of a

loss of Democratic control, and also

0:32:280:32:32

no guarantee, far from it, that

whatever the EU 27 and it would also

0:32:320:32:36

be in the interest of UK business. I

will make some more progress. Nor

0:32:360:32:40

should we look to a Canadian style

agreement as the answer, even if it

0:32:400:32:45

were easier to achieve a Ceta deal,

we start from the unique position of

0:32:450:32:50

regulator ollie alignment with the

EU. We start from a position where

0:32:500:32:56

our systems are already the same. It

is precisely because the government

0:32:560:33:00

recognises our imported EU trade is,

that we must look to an ambitious

0:33:000:33:04

deal rather than starting a

relationship from scratch with

0:33:040:33:07

something like Ceta. However, as

important as trade with the EU is,

0:33:070:33:12

we must also look outside Europe.

The IMF, and this is a statistic you

0:33:120:33:17

will also find in the European

commission, 90% of global growth

0:33:170:33:24

will come from beyond the EU. China

has an economy the size of

0:33:240:33:28

Switzerland every year. There will

be over 1 billion middle-class

0:33:280:33:32

African consumers in the year 2060.

Commonwealth GDP is protected to hit

0:33:320:33:41

$13 trillion in two years. These are

unprecedented opportunities. Yet

0:33:410:33:45

these opportunities are harder to

reach from behind the EU's customs

0:33:450:33:48

wall. Only once we can sign our own

independent trade deals can we take

0:33:480:33:55

full advantage of this. Signing

those deals means being outside of

0:33:550:34:00

the Customs Union. We only need to

look to Turkey to see that being in

0:34:000:34:07

the Customs Union, in whole or in

part, can sometimes be the worst of

0:34:070:34:11

all worlds. The EU is currently

negotiating a deal with Japan, very

0:34:110:34:18

important to understand this, Madame

Deputy Speaker. If it finalises that

0:34:180:34:22

deal, and we are very strongly

supportive of that deal, Turkey will

0:34:220:34:27

need to reduce tariffs on Japanese

imports. But it will not get

0:34:270:34:32

reciprocal access to the Japanese

market. It will have to negotiate

0:34:320:34:37

its own access. But negotiating such

access will be more difficult as

0:34:370:34:41

Turkey will have already reduced its

tariffs, so it won't are have as

0:34:410:34:45

much to give in return. As the Prime

Minister set out repeatedly, we are

0:34:450:34:50

looking for a bespoke agreement. For

goods, this will be based on a

0:34:500:34:56

comprehensive agreement of mutual

recognition, so products only need

0:34:560:35:00

to be approved once. On services, we

have the opportunity to establish a

0:35:000:35:04

broader agreement than ever before.

I give way.

My right honourable

0:35:040:35:10

friend is very kind and generous in

giving way, especially as I am ready

0:35:100:35:13

not helping him. With the greatest

amount of respect he knows, as

0:35:130:35:19

everybody else knows, that we will

and can achieve all these deals with

0:35:190:35:23

countries like China as a member of

the European Union. I have met, by

0:35:230:35:30

way of example, the ambassador from

Australia. And of course he will do

0:35:300:35:35

or want to do a trade deal with our

great country. But they will be

0:35:350:35:41

looking for the first trade deal to

be done with the European Union with

0:35:410:35:46

its 500 million customers. Would he

not agree with me it's very

0:35:460:35:49

important that we make all these

things very clear to the British

0:35:490:35:52

people? We do trade deals at the

moment with countries by virtue of

0:35:520:35:59

our membership of the European

Union. The only reason we're leaving

0:35:590:36:02

the Customs Union just to chase

unicorn deals we can get in the EU.

0:36:020:36:11

The honourable lady knows her

intervention is too long, because

0:36:110:36:14

she said the last time.

It was a

long intervention. With respect to

0:36:140:36:20

my honourable friend she and I

served alongside each other in

0:36:200:36:24

government. The British people have

made the decision to leave the

0:36:240:36:31

European Union. It is now the

efforts of this government to ensure

0:36:310:36:35

that we have the best frictionless

trade deal with the union while

0:36:350:36:41

still take advantage of trade

opportunities beyond the EU. That is

0:36:410:36:45

what the objective of the Government

is. I really, I have used up 24

0:36:450:36:51

minutes. On services we have the

opportunity to establish a broader

0:36:510:36:55

agreement than ever and we recognise

we cannot have the rights of single

0:36:550:37:00

market membership such as

passporting and financial services,

0:37:000:37:05

just as we understand you can't have

all the benefits of single market

0:37:050:37:10

membership without the obligations.

But this does not mean she should be

0:37:100:37:19

shackled by existing precedents. The

main point to remember is that it is

0:37:190:37:27

strongly in European Union

countries' interest to sign and

0:37:270:37:31

agree such a deal. On the day we

leave we will become the EU's second

0:37:310:37:37

largest trade being partner. Larger

than any of China, Japan or India.

0:37:370:37:43

The commission estimates trade

between the UK and the EU 27 to be

0:37:430:37:49

812 billion euros. That is only 8%

behind the EU 27's main trading

0:37:490:37:55

partner, the United States. But it

is 60% more than China who come

0:37:550:38:01

third. Given the effort the EU has

put into deals with the likes of

0:38:010:38:09

Mexico, Vietnam and Singapore, all

of which we support, but each of

0:38:090:38:14

which are significantly less

important to them than we are, it

0:38:140:38:17

would be odd indeed for them to

reject proposals from us. Further,

0:38:170:38:23

both the EU and the UK need to be

sending a loud and clear message

0:38:230:38:28

that we are both strong believers in

free trade and what message would it

0:38:280:38:33

show if we couldn't agree a free

trade agreement? Even this

0:38:330:38:40

underestimates our importance to the

EU, it is the type of trade that

0:38:400:38:43

matters not just the volume. Our

advantages are in the business

0:38:430:38:47

professional and financial services

that other businesses need to grow

0:38:470:38:51

and in pharmaceutical goods that no

one wants to exclude. For an

0:38:510:38:56

advanced economy, good financial

infrastructure is as important as

0:38:560:39:00

physical infrastructure, even if it

is not as obvious. Restricting

0:39:000:39:05

Europe's access to the City's

infrastructure would be the act of a

0:39:050:39:13

latter day Beeching. The rest of

network could try and pick up the

0:39:130:39:19

slack, but that network and I know

because I have worked in sector has

0:39:190:39:24

less capacity and EU businesses

cannot connect to the capital market

0:39:240:39:28

that they need. Indeed, the EU talks

about a capital markets union. But

0:39:280:39:37

how tenable is this without access

to Europe's main capital market. But

0:39:370:39:43

our reputation goes beyond mutual

interest. Our membership is one part

0:39:430:39:46

of our relationship with Europe. We

can still be neighbours, 30

0:39:460:39:53

kilometres off the coast of France.

We will still be in the same core

0:39:530:39:58

organisations that the EU are part

of from the European court of human

0:39:580:40:02

rights to the UN to NATO from, the

IMF to the WTO. The economic

0:40:020:40:09

security and humanitarian links that

hold the international system

0:40:090:40:12

together. Nevertheless to conclude,

the department for international

0:40:120:40:16

trade is preparing... I'm going to

finish. The department of

0:40:160:40:19

international trade is preparing

this country for life outside of the

0:40:190:40:22

EU. We are taking forward trade and

customs bills to give as a

0:40:220:40:28

functioning customs regime on day

one. As you would expect, these have

0:40:280:40:32

been designed to prepare us for

every eventuality, although they

0:40:320:40:35

will be needed regardless of the

outcome of our negotiations with the

0:40:350:40:39

EU. They will give us a strong trade

remedy regime, free trade does not

0:40:390:40:45

mean trade without rules, but Labour

opposed these powers at second

0:40:450:40:48

reading. Our independent trade

remedies regime will allow us to

0:40:480:40:55

protect UK industry from unfair

dumping or subsidy and balancing the

0:40:550:41:01

interests of UK consumers and

businesses, delivered through an

0:41:010:41:05

independent authority and businesses

will have the confidence they need

0:41:050:41:07

that it will be impartial and not

act against the interests of wider

0:41:070:41:12

industry. I want to make sure this

new regime works as well as

0:41:120:41:16

businesses should from the start. We

are consulting on which existing EU

0:41:160:41:21

trade remedies we should carry over.

I would encourage any business with

0:41:210:41:25

an interest to respond before that

consultation closes and for members

0:41:250:41:31

with interests to help publicise

this. The taxation cross border

0:41:310:41:38

trade bill will allow us to create a

UK trade preferences regime for

0:41:380:41:43

developing country. Also opposed by

Labour, the SNP and the Liberal

0:41:430:41:48

Democrats at second reading. The UK

is a proud advocate of supporting

0:41:480:41:54

developing countries to reduce

poverty through trade and I hope

0:41:540:41:57

Labour will reconsider its stance.

This will let us continue the scheme

0:41:570:42:07

of helping countries and removing

import tariffs and allowing us to

0:42:070:42:13

explore improvement on the EU's

system. Leaving the European Union

0:42:130:42:19

will allow us to negotiate trade

deals across the world, but this

0:42:190:42:24

government understands the

importance of trade with the EU.

0:42:240:42:26

That is why we are seeking a deep

and special partnership with the EU.

0:42:260:42:31

This is the only appropriate option.

We across all parties should be

0:42:310:42:35

optimistic that this can be

achieved. Thank you.

The question is

0:42:350:42:44

the House has considered European

affairs. Before I call the spokesman

0:42:440:42:47

for the opposition it will be

obvious to the House that a great

0:42:470:42:50

many people wish to speak and we

have limited time. There will be an

0:42:500:42:57

initial limit on backbench speeches

of eight minutes. Which is likely

0:42:570:43:00

then to reduce. I make this

announcement now that members can

0:43:000:43:08

tailor their speeches accordingly.

Thank you. It was a year ago

0:43:080:43:13

yesterday that this House voted to

give the Prime Minister the

0:43:130:43:18

authority to trigger Article 50. It

is almost a year since she did so

0:43:180:43:22

and 20 months since the referendum

result. The Government accepted the

0:43:220:43:27

EU time table, and while the cut off

point may slip by a week or two, the

0:43:270:43:33

draft withdrawal agreement including

the framework for the future

0:43:330:43:35

relationship will have to be wrapped

up in just seven months time. We

0:43:350:43:40

welcome the joint report published

in December and the progress it

0:43:400:43:43

represented. But the fact remains

that the Government is running out

0:43:430:43:48

of time and running out of road. So

it is extraordinary that despite the

0:43:480:43:53

scale of task that confronts us the

Government have decided the best use

0:43:530:43:59

of our time is two days of general

debate, without even the possibility

0:43:590:44:03

of a vote. While we welcome any and

every chance to debate Brexit and

0:44:030:44:08

Europe, it is a farcical situation.

No date has been set for the customs

0:44:080:44:18

or trade deals. The immigration bill

we are told will hopefully be with

0:44:180:44:22

us before Christmas, a year after it

was expected, but as the Home

0:44:220:44:26

Secretary made clear it may not even

be law by the day we leave. And

0:44:260:44:31

there is no sign of the fisheries or

agricultural bills or anything that

0:44:310:44:37

could reasonably be described as a

domestic legislative agenda. This is

0:44:370:44:47

an approach known to experiments as

"run away." The reason for this is

0:44:470:44:52

obvious. The party opposite remains

divide over Brexit and what the

0:44:520:44:58

future relationship with the EU 27

should be. I'm happy to give way.

0:44:580:45:05

Thank you. Let's, can he agree with

me, to be honest about this, there

0:45:050:45:11

is some division on these benches,

but there is division sill on those

0:45:110:45:16

benches as well. And while the move

to a customs union has been

0:45:160:45:23

welcomed, does he anticipate we

might see more movement to the

0:45:230:45:27

customs union and accepting that the

single market would also be a good

0:45:270:45:31

way to settle it?

I thank the

honourable lady for her

0:45:310:45:36

intervention. I think we need to be

honest about this and an issue of

0:45:360:45:40

this magnitude is bound to create

different views in all parties. But

0:45:400:45:45

I would argue that the divisions on

this side are nothing like the

0:45:450:45:49

fundamental divisions that are in

the Cabinet and on the Government

0:45:490:45:53

benches and certainly the divisions

on our side are not preventing

0:45:530:45:56

legislation from being brought

forward to allow us to vote on them.

0:45:560:46:00

The Prime Minister's...

Minister's... I want to make

0:46:000:46:05

progress. The Prime Minister's

speech was an amendment to muffle

0:46:050:46:10

those divisions as provi clarity. It

with was a more detail speech and

0:46:100:46:21

devoid of empty slogans No repeat of

earlier banalities of Brexit means

0:46:210:46:28

Brexit. The speech started to engage

with the hard truths, stressed the

0:46:280:46:33

need for compromise on all sides and

conceded trade offs will have to be

0:46:330:46:40

made. As with her Florence speech in

September, one wishes the content

0:46:400:46:46

could have been delivered earlier

and had it been, I suspect the

0:46:460:46:49

country would have been in a better

position today. Judging by the raft

0:46:490:46:55

of cherry and cake met afores we

heard, in response to her statement

0:46:550:46:59

on Monday, the Prime Minister's

speech may have succeeded in its

0:46:590:47:05

objective of holding together her

divided party and giving her a

0:47:050:47:11

degree of room to manoeuvre. But the

divisions remain. That is the

0:47:110:47:15

obvious, for if they were healed, we

would be considering the report

0:47:150:47:20

stage of the customs or trade bill,

rather than having a general debate.

0:47:200:47:24

Make no mistake, those divisions

will have to be confronted and the

0:47:240:47:30

sensible majority given the

opportunity to shape the Brexit

0:47:300:47:34

process sooner rather than later.

Because while the Prime Minister's

0:47:340:47:36

speech was more realistic in

important ways, it was still not

0:47:360:47:40

realistic enough. The theme of

today's debate is international

0:47:400:47:44

trade and arguably. I will give way.

Thank you. On the Prime Minister's

0:47:440:47:50

speech, she said that we will have

less access given the hard Brexit

0:47:500:47:56

that the Government is pursuing.

Will he agree that less market

0:47:560:48:00

access to our biggest market means

fewer jobs, less investment and less

0:48:000:48:05

economic growth?

Thank you. I agree.

I couldn't have put it better

0:48:050:48:11

myself. It was in the sections

relating to customs that were the

0:48:110:48:16

least convincing part of Prime

Minister's speech, in contrast to

0:48:160:48:18

other areas there was no attempt to

engage with the hard truths what

0:48:180:48:23

about leaving the customs union will

mean, particularly with that

0:48:230:48:27

decision on manufacturing and the

issue of Irish border. As the House

0:48:270:48:30

knows, the Prime Minister went back

to the two propositions the

0:48:300:48:35

Government set out in the paper in

August last year, a customs

0:48:350:48:39

partnership between the UK and the

EU or a highly streamlined customs

0:48:390:48:45

arrangement, where we would agree to

imMr implement a range of measures

0:48:450:48:52

for Northern Ireland. The first

untried and untested. By the

0:48:520:48:56

Government's own admission would

take at least five years to

0:48:560:49:00

implement and would be ripe for

abuse. It was rejected by the EU

0:49:000:49:03

last year. Not least because it

would require EU members to reckon

0:49:030:49:11

figure their own national customs

systems. It is not blue sky

0:49:110:49:16

thinking, it is pie in the sky

thinking. The second option would

0:49:160:49:19

according to the Chief Executive of

HMRC take three years to take place

0:49:190:49:25

and would result in friction on the

boarders and would require measures.

0:49:250:49:34

The Prime Minister in her speech

claimed that both options were

0:49:340:49:38

serious. But they were widely

rubbished in the wake of that speech

0:49:380:49:43

and the EU ruled them out as

non-starters. The truth is the

0:49:430:49:48

Government have no idea about what

to do when it custom and the Irish

0:49:480:49:54

border. The full back in the draft

legal Tex that the Northern Ireland

0:49:540:50:01

goes into into a customs union with

the south and the border is shifted

0:50:010:50:06

to somewhere in the Irish Sea is

unsip -- unacceptable. But so that

0:50:060:50:13

means that the Irish border issue

remained unresolved. One part of the

0:50:130:50:18

solution would be as the opposition

suggested to negotiate a new customs

0:50:180:50:24

union. It would ensure goods could

still be traded with the EU

0:50:240:50:31

tariff-free. The exact terms of such

a union would of course have to be

0:50:310:50:35

negotiated. But it represents a

pragmatic proposals, reflecting

0:50:350:50:40

current arrangements which has been

welcomed by trade unions and

0:50:400:50:47

businesses, including the

manufacturers organisation and the

0:50:470:50:51

CBI. A new union would not prevent

the UK from trading globally or

0:50:510:50:58

improving our export industry. Just

as the EU customs union has not

0:50:580:51:03

accepted Germany making China its

largest trading partner. Germany has

0:51:030:51:09

exports four times more to China

than the UK. The UK would still be

0:51:090:51:19

able to deal in property and

businesses could export to non-EU

0:51:190:51:24

markets. In short there is no

question the EU could and would

0:51:240:51:31

increase trade inside a customs

union. As the Secretary for

0:51:310:51:35

international trade said in relation

to the Prime Minister's visit to

0:51:350:51:38

China.

0:51:380:51:42

A new comprehensive UK the EU

Customs Union would acquire the UK

0:51:420:51:49

to adopt a common tariff system with

the EU. It is true that we would not

0:51:490:51:56

be able to negotiate independent

third-party trade deals. But as many

0:51:560:52:00

honourable members have already

mentioned, we need to face some hard

0:52:000:52:05

facts in this area. The notion that

future free-trade agreements will

0:52:050:52:08

offset the inevitable economic

cost... If I can finish this

0:52:080:52:15

point,... To say that it is simply

not an either or question does not

0:52:150:52:21

get to the heart of the question

that confront us.

Wildie honourable

0:52:210:52:27

member confirmed that when he is

saying he wants to stay in the

0:52:270:52:32

Customs Union with the EU, Izzy also

able to confirm that he will

0:52:320:52:37

continue to comply with EU state aid

and competition law as a condition

0:52:370:52:44

of staying in that the Customs

Union? Because I can't find a single

0:52:440:52:48

example of a country that is allowed

to stay in the Customs Union while

0:52:480:52:52

disregarding the state aid laws.

When it comes to state aid rules, I

0:52:520:52:59

think the honourable lady, and I

know she has great expertise in this

0:52:590:53:03

area, I think she has slightly

misjudged the fact that as I

0:53:030:53:07

understand that it is not about

customs, it is about the elements

0:53:070:53:10

that make up the single market. We

have said we would see in principle

0:53:100:53:15

to negotiate protections,

clarifications or exemptions were

0:53:150:53:18

necessary. I can't imagine a

situation where those exemptions

0:53:180:53:21

would be necessary. As the Leader of

the Opposition said some time ago,

0:53:210:53:25

there is nothing in the current

state aid rules that would prevent

0:53:250:53:28

us from implementing our manifesto.

As Sir Martin Donnelly and many

0:53:280:53:35

honourable members already

mentioned, the former permanent

0:53:350:53:38

secretary at the Department of

International trade says it is like

0:53:380:53:46

giving up a three course meal for a

packet of crisps. The EU constitutes

0:53:460:53:50

43% of exports and 53% of imports.

It must be our priority. Increases

0:53:500:53:55

to trade for a new free treat --

free-trade agreements with USA,

0:53:550:53:58

Canada, New Zealand and Australia

would... I will make some progress.

0:53:580:54:05

FTAs with the brick countries would

be worth just over 2%. Any such

0:54:050:54:11

trade deals, even if they were

secured in a reasonably quick time

0:54:110:54:16

frame, would in all likelihood

entailed detrimental trade-offs that

0:54:160:54:21

the British public would rightly

take issue with.

On the point about

0:54:210:54:30

regulation, the government analysis

paper outlines opportunities from

0:54:300:54:33

Brexit. It says that across

Whitehall they are working on these

0:54:330:54:38

opportunities. Does he not agree

this is a code for deregulation? The

0:54:380:54:46

Secretary of State cannot give us

any clarification on the

0:54:460:54:49

Environmental Protection Agency.

I

thank my honourable friend for that

0:54:490:54:52

intervention. That is certainly the

fear. I read the same analysis. I

0:54:520:54:57

had to surrender my phone to do so

and I found out it was released

0:54:570:55:00

publicly a week later. On -- there

are opportunities to deregulate.

0:55:000:55:07

Perhaps the Minister can tell us why

they are being the model of what

0:55:070:55:10

they might refer to? One only has to

listen to the noises coming from the

0:55:100:55:14

US government on issues ranging from

the replacement of the open skies

0:55:140:55:19

treaty to the inclusion of any

agriculture in any FTA to get an

0:55:190:55:24

indication of how difficult things

could be. That is irrespective of

0:55:240:55:29

who occupies the White House. The

prospect of new free-trade

0:55:290:55:32

agreements may give the

international trade Secretary

0:55:320:55:34

purpose but they would be good for

little else.

I want to go back to

0:55:340:55:41

the comments he has made about Sir

Martin Donnelly, who I worked with.

0:55:410:55:45

A civil servant of extreme mobility

and wisdom. But I think that when he

0:55:450:55:49

makes a reference to the bank would

first is the packet of crisps and

0:55:490:55:54

knowledge of what he's looking at to

a certain extent are some of the

0:55:540:55:57

gravity models used by the Treasury,

where they are looking at the simple

0:55:570:56:02

mathematical trade-off between

tariffs with EU and elsewhere. What

0:56:020:56:05

is missed in all of this debate is

the ability the UK confine itself at

0:56:050:56:11

the centre of a network of trade

deals. For example, a US

0:56:110:56:15

manufacturer needs to see the

advantage of moving their

0:56:150:56:18

manufacturing operations to the UK

to take advantage of UK Indian trade

0:56:180:56:22

deal, for example, where the trade

is better. That is the unknown that

0:56:220:56:31

we are struggling to analyse in

order to be able to get the true

0:56:310:56:34

comparison between one type of

relationship and the other.

I simply

0:56:340:56:39

don't think that stacks up. I

listened to Sir Martin's comments

0:56:390:56:44

very carefully. If the honourable

gentleman wants to make a longer

0:56:440:56:47

speech, I would be very interested

to hear the point he might make. I

0:56:470:56:50

am going to make some progress

because there are a lot of people

0:56:500:56:53

who want to come in. A sensible,

pragmatic government focused on the

0:56:530:56:59

economic welfare of the country

would consider the option of a new

0:56:590:57:02

comprehensive customs union along

the lines they -- over suggested. So

0:57:020:57:08

would any government committed, as

this government is, to the avoidance

0:57:080:57:12

of a hard border on the island of

Ireland, including physical

0:57:120:57:17

infrastructure or related checks and

controls. A border that is

0:57:170:57:21

frictionless. Not as frictionless as

possible. A border that has checks,

0:57:210:57:26

even, and I quote, very minimal

checks, as the Foreign Secretary

0:57:260:57:30

suggested to a business audience

last week, is still a border that

0:57:300:57:34

would require some kind of

infrastructure and patrols. A

0:57:340:57:37

version of the Canada US border, as

the Prime Minister suggested was

0:57:370:57:41

being explored, is simply not good

enough. The threat such an outcome

0:57:410:57:46

would pose to the economy and

politics of Ireland, as well as the

0:57:460:57:51

daily lives of citizens, are obvious

to both members -- members of this

0:57:510:57:55

House. We recognise a new

comprehensive customs union in

0:57:550:57:59

itself is not a complete solution to

the Irish border issue. To obviate

0:57:590:58:03

the need for physical infrastructure

on and checks on the border, and

0:58:030:58:09

uphold the Good Friday Agreement in

its entirety on all three stands,

0:58:090:58:15

would be required. That alignment

will of course have to be maintained

0:58:150:58:18

over time as EU legislation evolved.

That is one of the reasons why we

0:58:180:58:24

need to secure a new agreement that

gives us the closest possible

0:58:240:58:27

relationship with the single market.

Full access to European single

0:58:270:58:34

market -- European markets. No drop

in the standard protections. And no

0:58:340:58:40

prospect of falling behind them in

the future. Recognising that our

0:58:400:58:44

future economic relationship depends

on a level playing field and the

0:58:440:58:47

same standards that business wants.

But when it comes to goods, a

0:58:470:58:51

conversation with EU 27 about full

regulatory alignment, and the

0:58:510:58:56

institutional mechanisms that may be

required to facilitate them, is not

0:58:560:59:00

possible when the government have

ruled out membership of any customs

0:59:000:59:05

union. The idea that a comprehensive

system of bejewelled recognition,

0:59:050:59:09

something that even EU member states

do not even expect to each other, is

0:59:090:59:14

mistaken. There is no solution to

the Irish border issue that does not

0:59:140:59:18

involve some kind of customs union.

That is what the government must

0:59:180:59:21

reconsider its redline in this area.

If it doesn't, it is difficult to

0:59:210:59:26

see what the government's solution

to the Irish border issue, or indeed

0:59:260:59:29

the issue of customs at Dover, might

be. This matters, Madam Deputy

0:59:290:59:36

Speaker, because while the

government may be able to find some

0:59:360:59:39

of the difficult decisions for now,

the issue of the Irish border cannot

0:59:390:59:43

be forged. I am coming to a close.

The draft withdrawal agreement

0:59:430:59:48

merely needs to include a political

declaration on the future

0:59:480:59:50

relationship. That is all. The

details to be hammered out after the

0:59:500:59:55

UK has left the EU. The Irish border

issue is an integral part of the

0:59:551:00:01

withdrawal agreement. Without a

solution to it, it is difficult to

1:00:011:00:05

imagine how the government secures a

transition period or an orderly

1:00:051:00:09

exit. Thank you, Madam Debord is

bigger.

We now have a time limit of

1:00:091:00:15

eight minutes. I am very pleased to

speaking today's debate.

I will

1:00:151:00:26

focus specifically on the pension

asset management and long-term

1:00:261:00:33

savings industry. 24% of people

employed in the UK in the insurance

1:00:331:00:38

sector work in Scotland. Many of my

constituency. These industries want

1:00:381:00:46

a deal. No deal means banks,

insurance companies and phone

1:00:461:00:52

providers could not provide services

across the UK. Contracts for

1:00:521:00:58

derivatives would become

unenforceable. They could lose their

1:00:581:01:08

licence to do insurance.

Cross-border pension payments from

1:01:081:01:12

the UK into the EU and vice versa

could not be paid. It would defy

1:01:121:01:17

common sense not to have a Brexit

deal and financial services when the

1:01:171:01:21

insurance and savings sectors are so

closely allied and trading services

1:01:211:01:26

are vital to both parties. The UK

asset management industry is the

1:01:261:01:30

second-largest the world,

managing... Investment funds used by

1:01:301:01:35

pension providers are set up under

Irish law and other EU

1:01:351:01:41

jurisdictions. That is over 600

billion euros by UK managers in

1:01:411:01:52

Ireland on behalf of UK investors.

In no deal Brexit is unacceptable.

1:01:521:01:58

The penchant and lifetime savings

Association was more blunt when it

1:01:581:02:02

said WTO would cause major

disruption. On no account could be

1:02:021:02:04

pension fund industry support a

regime based on WTO rules. It would

1:02:041:02:09

because economic harm, regulatory

barriers and undermine pension

1:02:091:02:13

support services. That is why the

industry welcomed the Lancaster

1:02:131:02:19

House speech. If we leave the single

market, passporting, a central

1:02:191:02:27

pillar, will end. There are

currently 336,421 passport held by

1:02:271:02:34

UK firms. Many hold multiple

passports from multiple states.

1:02:341:02:40

Recently published figures suggests

the UK insurance figure takes £14

1:02:401:02:44

billion of this each year. We need

to start talking about arrangements

1:02:441:02:50

with a transitional period for times

to adapt. Primary risk for

1:02:501:02:59

institutions... No equivalence

decision has been issued in time. It

1:02:591:03:08

will also affect elements of

financial services' infrastructure,

1:03:081:03:11

such as access to clearing spaces or

the provision of services to

1:03:111:03:14

clients. That must be a priority. At

the end of the day if we want to

1:03:141:03:23

remain and enhance this country's

position as a leading global

1:03:231:03:27

financial centre, we will need to

regulate it in accordance with the

1:03:271:03:32

highest global standards. That is

important not just for UK firms were

1:03:321:03:36

third country institutions such as

the US to Hong Kong which cannot

1:03:361:03:39

make use of the system and must

establish unauthorised presence in

1:03:391:03:44

an EU state. For this reason, many

countries have chosen to base

1:03:441:03:48

themselves in London through a UK

subsidiary. We want them to be able

1:03:481:03:53

to continue to do so. We also need

to agree success of arrangements for

1:03:531:03:58

passporting. Third country

recognition is absolutely vital in

1:03:581:04:09

the process for this needs to be

sorted out long before we have left.

1:04:091:04:16

A bespoke mutual recognition

agreement which would allow UK

1:04:161:04:20

entities to continue to fulfil roles

would be necessary. In terms of

1:04:201:04:24

pension schemes themselves, these

are subject to EU legislation as

1:04:241:04:28

institutional investors affected by

market regulations, and very

1:04:281:04:35

significantly, directly under the

onward placed pension scheme. During

1:04:351:04:44

the negotiation of UK were

successful in warding of the threat

1:04:441:04:49

of a regime for pensions, which

could have resulted in the bill for

1:04:491:04:52

British business up to 650 billion

euros. This remains on the agenda

1:04:521:04:58

for the EU pensions regulator

anybody. Everybody knows I would

1:04:581:05:00

like the best possible access but...

The worst-case scenario would be for

1:05:001:05:15

pension schemes to find themselves

outside of the EU... More broadly, a

1:05:151:05:24

good trade deal is vital to the

pensions industry because of its

1:05:241:05:27

significance to employers. A bad

Brexit will have huge detrimental

1:05:271:05:36

impact to these centres and put

pressures on employers' ability to

1:05:361:05:40

fund schemes. Pension schemes need

full access to the global market. So

1:05:401:05:48

they can manage their risks. We need

the UK financial services industry

1:05:481:05:52

to remain strong and vibrant as it

is today. I have spoken in recent

1:05:521:05:58

debates at Westminster Hall. I will

not repeat what I said. I do still

1:05:581:06:04

running of the view that the EU

referendum result was decisive was

1:06:041:06:12

not overwhelming. I want a Chris

Doak deal. -- a bespoke deal. If we

1:06:121:06:20

need a plan B it cannot be to crash

out on WTO terms. I believe the

1:06:201:06:26

Prime Minister should have the

maximum flexibility. She needs to do

1:06:261:06:29

the right deal and not be hemmed in

by individuals and groups.

1:06:291:06:36

Are they dancing in Clarkston at the

thought of Britain leaving the EU,

1:06:361:06:41

no. But they are not taking to their

beds. They need practical solutions

1:06:411:06:47

to be put forward. Pragmatism is

needed. This is a negotiation, but I

1:06:471:06:58

hope the EU will engage the

suggestions and we can at last move

1:06:581:07:02

forward at pace.

I'm glad the House

is much better behaved today than

1:07:021:07:13

yesterday, we are being observed

this afternoon by our colleagues and

1:07:131:07:17

friends from the Parliament of

Afghanistan, who I'm delighted to

1:07:171:07:22

welcome to Westminster and I hope

that they will find our

1:07:221:07:30

deliberations about Europe

inlightening. -- enlightening.

Thank

1:07:301:07:33

you. I would like to add our welcome

to our colleague and friends from

1:07:331:07:39

Afghanistan as well. I will reflect

that we have another European union

1:07:391:07:47

debate and I hop you don't mind me

saying I was elected almost three

1:07:471:07:51

years ago and after being appointed

Europe spokesman, the referendum

1:07:511:07:56

bill came through. So it has

dominated by time here. But that is

1:07:561:08:00

because it is important. Actually

almost three years on, I think it is

1:08:001:08:05

fairly safe to say that things are

not going terribly well for the

1:08:051:08:10

Government. The EU has brought us a

huge number of benefits and I'm

1:08:101:08:17

somebody who has enjoyed some of

those benefits to education and the

1:08:171:08:22

abscess from education, regardless

of background and financial means

1:08:221:08:27

from freedom of movement which we

benefit from terms of being able to

1:08:271:08:31

work and live throughout the EU and

our economy benefit, because of

1:08:311:08:36

benefits of people coming to the

United Kingdom to live and work as

1:08:361:08:39

well. The member for East

Renfrewshire was right in his speech

1:08:391:08:45

to highlight some of the

difficulties that financial services

1:08:451:08:50

face in his constituency with this.

Actually, this is something I'm

1:08:501:08:54

approached about regularly in my own

constituency. Issues where we still

1:08:541:08:59

don't have an answer on areas such

as seasonal workers and the food and

1:08:591:09:06

drink industry that relies on

seasonal workers and from freedom of

1:09:061:09:09

movement. We have had no clear

answers from the Government. This is

1:09:091:09:14

important now, because what we are

seeing is with some farmers have

1:09:141:09:18

told me a decline in seasonal

workers. What does it mean for crops

1:09:181:09:22

planted in advance for the following

years. Many of which need to be

1:09:221:09:26

taken by hand. Business decisions

need to be made now for after we

1:09:261:09:31

have left the EU. And there is

precious little certainty, precious

1:09:311:09:37

little decision-making about what is

going to happen after 29th March

1:09:371:09:40

next year. Crucially, in the harvest

period after that as well. There is

1:09:401:09:47

the tourist sector that relies on

those seasonal workers and on

1:09:471:09:53

freedom of movement. Higher

education and research and we must

1:09:531:09:59

reflect on the fact that our centres

of education rely on the excellence

1:09:591:10:04

it has brought by being able to tap

into a pool and to be able to tap

1:10:041:10:10

into freedom of movement and the

benefits that brings, as well as the

1:10:101:10:16

benefits brought by horizon 2020 and

the other means that are so

1:10:161:10:19

important. The biggest employer in

my constituency is the University of

1:10:191:10:26

St Andrews. A great deal of people

work at universities in the area. It

1:10:261:10:32

is a big industry. It is a big

employer. Actually, not only is

1:10:321:10:36

this, are these jobs at the moment

and that is important, not only are

1:10:361:10:43

they learning establishments where

young people and mature students can

1:10:431:10:46

grow and improve our economy, but it

is somewhere that benefits us in the

1:10:461:10:50

years to come as we get those break

throughs on issues like dementia,

1:10:501:10:59

dyslexia and helping children have a

better educational experience

1:10:591:11:04

through research done. I will give

way.

I'm grateful. Does he agree

1:11:041:11:10

that it is extraordinary to see a

Government so proudly leading the

1:11:101:11:15

country into a situation where we

are all going to be so much poorer

1:11:151:11:19

and poorer not just economically,

but in the terms he is describing,

1:11:191:11:23

in terms of richness of the

relationship we have with other

1:11:231:11:27

countries in research and elsewhere

is important and it will be the

1:11:271:11:30

young people, it is their futures

that are being closed down in the

1:11:301:11:35

most unforgiveable way.

As usual the

members makes an excellent and power

1:11:351:11:40

point and the benches opposite would

do well to listen to. The benches

1:11:401:11:44

beside her would do well to listen

to her. She makes a good point. I

1:11:441:11:48

want to touch upon that point and

the finances which she brought up.

1:11:481:11:53

Before I do, I want to talk about

the broader impact on public

1:11:531:11:58

services. On areas like access to

the single market which is so

1:11:581:12:02

important in term of decreasing red

tape. We hear a lot about red tape.

1:12:021:12:07

But a bg access to the single market

has reduced red tape. The impact on

1:12:071:12:14

services. Think about our doctors

and nurses who come from throughout

1:12:141:12:19

the EU. Dentists as well. It can

difficult to get a dentist. There is

1:12:191:12:32

one in Glenrothes made up of EU

nationals. The European Medicines

1:12:321:12:38

Agency which is based in London and

will be taken away and take jobs

1:12:381:12:42

with it. That is also important.

What about cash for public services.

1:12:421:12:48

The honourable lady raised. Now,

right now the UK Government is

1:12:481:12:55

talking of finding common ground

between the UK and the Scottish

1:12:551:12:58

Government. There is within area

where there is common ground and the

1:12:581:13:05

minister's right to look up at that

point. But that is in point that the

1:13:051:13:09

Scottish Government and the UK

Government agree in their analysis

1:13:091:13:13

that this will be devastating for

the economies of both Scotland and

1:13:131:13:19

the United Kingdom. The Scottish

Government figures and we were told

1:13:191:13:24

that the Scottish Government figures

were not right until the UK

1:13:241:13:31

Government figures agreed with the

Scottish figures. For every 1% hit

1:13:311:13:35

on our GDP will be devastating in

every scenario that has been set

1:13:351:13:40

out. It has been put that every 1%

reduction in GDP could hit tax by 8

1:13:401:13:50

billion. That doesn't even start to

address the amount of money that we

1:13:501:13:54

are having to shell out just to

leave the EU and reports of 40

1:13:541:13:59

billion pounds and the Chancellor

preparing to leave the EU with

1:13:591:14:08

initial costs of three billion

pounds. Now, the financial times

1:14:081:14:23

estimate Brexit is costing us a lot.

Now if you have less money in GDP

1:14:231:14:29

and less in the tax take, you have

less money to spend on public

1:14:291:14:35

services. That is a basic. Now, in

Scotland at the moment and there are

1:14:351:14:43

legitimate points on this, the

Scottish Government has made changes

1:14:431:14:46

in tax where the majority are no

worse off or better off, but there

1:14:461:14:50

are changes in tax that will raise

an additional 164 million. I think

1:14:501:14:56

that is welcome. Because that is

only a drop in the ocean of the

1:14:561:15:05

amount of money that we will need to

try and save our public services

1:15:051:15:09

from the hits that are coming their

way and I would be delighted to hear

1:15:091:15:14

if anybody can tell me how they're

going to plug the gap in public

1:15:141:15:19

services. Would anybody like to

offer an intervention? I didn't

1:15:191:15:24

think so. Well go on.

I'm grateful

to the member. The whole premise of

1:15:241:15:31

what he is saying is based on

figures which do not take into

1:15:311:15:37

account at all what the Prime

Minister has set out to achieve,

1:15:371:15:40

which is a special and deep

partnership with the EU. The figures

1:15:401:15:44

you quote are the same figures that

members campaigned on in the

1:15:441:15:50

referendum and when you predicted

there would be recession and the

1:15:501:15:53

economy would fall off a cliff. You

were false prophets then and are

1:15:531:15:58

now.

Can I salute the member's

courage in bringing that up. I

1:15:581:16:04

salute his courage, but I'm using

his own Government's figures and I'm

1:16:041:16:09

using his own Government's figures

and I would like to make progress. I

1:16:091:16:15

would like to make progress. I will

come to the the honourable lady as

1:16:151:16:18

well. I'm using his own Government's

figures. And I think we need to have

1:16:181:16:22

a real and proper debate about how

we plug the gap in tax and how we

1:16:221:16:28

plug that gap in GDP. I will give

way.

Thank you. He has gone law

1:16:281:16:36

methodical process of working out

the effect of GDP on Brexit. Has he

1:16:361:16:41

worked out the effect of an empty

Tory slogan?

Well we have worked the

1:16:411:16:48

impact on the NHS, on education and

that will be devastating to our

1:16:481:16:52

public services, because of these

empty promises that were made that

1:16:521:16:56

each of us will pay for and I will

make a bit of progress. Another

1:16:561:17:03

issue and there are issues around

tax raised and GDP that we must

1:17:031:17:10

wrestle with in a serious manner.

Offering some suggestions. But right

1:17:101:17:16

now, the Government is not handling

some of the big issues. Time that

1:17:161:17:21

has been taken up with this issue is

strangling political debate as well.

1:17:211:17:26

The strikes in our Universities now

is a crucial issue for all parties.

1:17:261:17:32

The strikes in universities is

something we must take seriously.

1:17:321:17:35

Yet it is something as we look for a

fair solution to that and I will

1:17:351:17:39

make this point before I come to the

the honourable lady, that cannot be

1:17:391:17:44

a priority, because this Government

is so consumed by Brexit and what is

1:17:441:17:47

going on with leaving the EU that

other issues simply get ignored and

1:17:471:17:53

it strangles that proper and serious

debate. I will give way.

I'm

1:17:531:17:58

grateful. I didn't want the

impression to be given to the House

1:17:581:18:04

that the recent figures published by

the... Brexit committee were the

1:18:041:18:10

same as the figures that were used

pre-referendum. Two totally

1:18:101:18:15

different economic models were used

and it would be wrong for the record

1:18:151:18:19

in this House to suggest that the

figures used before the referendum

1:18:191:18:22

were the same as the once after.

Thank you. The honourable lady once

1:18:221:18:28

again and I know the differences I

sometimes have with her, but she

1:18:281:18:33

makes an honest point and I note the

correction from the members from her

1:18:331:18:40

benches who have been avoiding the

figures from her own government. The

1:18:401:18:43

member for Greenwich and I welcome

his remarks, I hope he will go to

1:18:431:18:47

the next step on the the single

market. I note his remarks on

1:18:471:18:52

Northern Ireland and I am grateful

for those. Because Northern Ireland

1:18:521:18:56

is one area that has been

overlooked. The danger to the peace

1:18:561:19:00

process is not something what any of

us should take lightly, regardless

1:19:001:19:04

of views different members have and

is something that we have to take

1:19:041:19:08

seriously. I know colleagues and my

honourable friends will talk about

1:19:081:19:15

the continuity bill in Holyrood. But

this is in Holyrood we find the

1:19:151:19:20

Conservatives utterly isolated in

their latest power-grab. When

1:19:201:19:24

challenged on this, they say that we

have to choose between the UK and

1:19:241:19:31

the EU. That is nonsense and

highlights the isolationism that is

1:19:311:19:38

at the heart of many of the members

opposite who reach out for this

1:19:381:19:44

ourselves alone approach. To in

conclusion we to look at where we

1:19:441:19:51

can make progress. There is one

silver lining and I pay credit to

1:19:511:19:55

members, I think in my short

experience I have seen members from

1:19:551:20:00

across this House seeking to work

together better than they have done

1:20:001:20:03

before and I know that where members

are trying it is not always easy to

1:20:031:20:07

put their differences aside and find

a way through this and I pay due and

1:20:071:20:11

I salute a number of members who

have been able to do this. If I

1:20:111:20:15

offer my own suggestion, which is

Scotland voted to remain part of EU.

1:20:151:20:20

And I note that is something that

has been noted by members in the

1:20:201:20:24

House and by members of Parliament

from across the European Union. What

1:20:241:20:29

I would suggested is bridges need to

be built with our European partners,

1:20:291:20:35

this has been a shock to the system

and that is important. We need to

1:20:351:20:39

build our economic ties. We would

like to see sup -- support for

1:20:391:20:47

immigration. But I think Scotland

stands ready to try and rebuild

1:20:471:20:52

ties. Our economic ties with the

rest of the United Kingdom are

1:20:521:20:57

important, but they're important

with the single market and the rest

1:20:571:21:01

of the EU. I would appeal to members

look look at your own figures and

1:21:011:21:07

the damage that has been done, reach

ouft to the devolved administrations

1:21:071:21:11

and other governments. This will hit

our public services and when you see

1:21:111:21:15

people switching off this debate,

they will not switch off when it

1:21:151:21:19

comes to a hit to the NHS and in

term of personnel and cash. A hit to

1:21:191:21:24

education and to other services as

well. We have devolution in the

1:21:241:21:30

United Kingdom, we should use it.

1:21:301:21:38

As the member of the Glasgow Central

pointed out earlier, it is

1:21:381:21:42

international ask a question day. My

question to the government is, do

1:21:421:21:46

you know what you are doing, and our

yorker of the devastating damage you

1:21:461:21:50

are doing?

-- are you aware.

I welcome the

1:21:501:21:58

opportunity to speak. I would like

to start by responding to the

1:21:581:22:00

honourable member who mentioned that

62% of the people in Scotland voted

1:22:001:22:05

to remain in the EU. What they

ordered her was for the UK to remain

1:22:051:22:11

in the EU. They did not vote for an

independent Scotland to remain in

1:22:111:22:17

the EU. As I said before, a majority

in my constituency out act --

1:22:171:22:23

actually did vote for the UK to

leave the European Union, based on

1:22:231:22:27

research conducted by the University

of East Anglia. It found 54% of

1:22:271:22:34

voters voted Leave in my

constituency. This should come as no

1:22:341:22:38

surprise when you consider my

constituency is home to fishing

1:22:381:22:43

communities and active ports. Around

50 per -- 54% of fisheries coming

1:22:431:22:52

through my constituency. 92% of

British fishermen planned to vote

1:22:521:22:56

leave. 68% of that sample was made

of Scottish fishermen. Fishing

1:22:561:23:02

communities in the UK have suffered

for decades under the Common

1:23:021:23:06

fisheries policy. This is an

historic run which would be put

1:23:061:23:09

right. We owe that to all fishing

communities. When we leave the EU,

1:23:091:23:15

we leave the common fisheries policy

and the common independent coastal

1:23:151:23:20

state. We must not weaken our hand

in the future by bargaining away

1:23:201:23:24

access to our exclusive economic

zone as part of a long term trade

1:23:241:23:28

deal with the EU. When it comes to

reciprocal access, compared to the

1:23:281:23:34

100,000 tonnes of fish brought into

EU waters by UK bus. British

1:23:341:23:42

fishermen catch only 40% of fish.

Compare that with 84% by Norwegian

1:23:421:23:47

vessels in their waters and

Icelandic vessels catch 95%. It is

1:23:471:23:52

not just the fishermen who wanted to

leave the EU. A survey of Scottish

1:23:521:23:56

farmers found that two thirds third

World Italy. The National Farmers'

1:23:561:24:00

Union of Scotland believe the result

may have been closer to 50-50. A

1:24:001:24:05

great many Scottish farmers will be

glad to see the back of the EU and

1:24:051:24:09

the the Common Agricultural Policy.

A policy which was designed to work

1:24:091:24:14

in a common way from the Arctic

Circle in the north to the

1:24:141:24:18

Mediterranean lead to an

overcomplicated, bureaucratic, one

1:24:181:24:21

size fits non-system. The food

industry in Scotland is to big to

1:24:211:24:27

neglect. These are important to UK

exports. I'm encouraged by the UK

1:24:271:24:38

government's commitment... Many

members of the seafood processing

1:24:381:24:42

company would like something similar

to be done to match the funding

1:24:421:24:44

which comes from the European

fisheries fund. One impact of Brexit

1:24:441:24:50

weather is concerned from farmers

and fishermen. -- which... Is the

1:24:501:25:02

supplementation of the workforce.

Long-term these industries must be

1:25:021:25:08

made sustainable with local labour

but that will not happen overnight.

1:25:081:25:12

An interim period will need a

stopgap. This was already an issue

1:25:121:25:17

before Brexit. There is not an

infinite supply of EU labour for

1:25:171:25:22

these industries. What is crucial is

that after we leave the EU we will

1:25:221:25:26

take back control of our borders,

laws, money and water.

1:25:261:25:36

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Can

I apologise for not being present

1:25:361:25:39

for the conclusion of the debate

tomorrow? We should be grateful we

1:25:391:25:44

have the opportunity over two days

to discuss European affairs. But it

1:25:441:25:47

is a reminder there is one thing

ministers don't want us to be doing

1:25:471:25:52

over two days, which is voting on

any amendments to keep us in the

1:25:521:25:56

Customs Union. This will definitely

be remembered as the Brexit

1:25:561:25:59

Parliament. It is undoubtedly the

backbenchers' parliament. It is

1:25:591:26:05

running the risk of becoming the

vocalist Parliament because business

1:26:051:26:08

managers are scrambling around to

fill their time with anything other

1:26:081:26:12

than votes on important matters. I

would say to ministers that you

1:26:121:26:16

cannot put those votes of

permanently. One of the reasons why

1:26:161:26:20

there is so much support was alluded

to by my honourable friend in his

1:26:201:26:24

excellent speech opening for our

side, and that is it would provide

1:26:241:26:28

part of the solution to the problem

of the border between the Republic

1:26:281:26:34

of Ireland and Northern Ireland. The

truth is the House divides into two

1:26:341:26:40

camps on the border. There is one

view which says it is all right,

1:26:401:26:44

there will be a technological

solution which we will get round.

1:26:441:26:46

The incompatibility --

incompatibility between the policy

1:26:461:26:50

government has adopted. No checks,

no infrastructure, open border. And

1:26:501:27:00

the second view, which I share, is

that we cannot currently see how you

1:27:001:27:03

can resolve those two

contradictions. We have been taking

1:27:031:27:08

evidence in the select committee. We

have been looking at free-trade

1:27:081:27:11

agreements all over the world. Every

single one of them involves some

1:27:111:27:16

checks on some goods, it doesn't

matter if it is Norway, Sweden, or

1:27:161:27:21

Canada and the US. Even the much

quoted but clearly little red

1:27:211:27:25

European Parliament report

acknowledges, even with the most

1:27:251:27:32

up-to-date technology, there would

still need to be physical

1:27:321:27:34

infrastructure. That is not

compatible with maintaining an open

1:27:341:27:40

border. Now of course the government

published its documents last summer.

1:27:401:27:46

We should explore all of the

options. While I recognise a

1:27:461:27:52

suspension of belief is essential to

the magician's art, it is not a

1:27:521:27:56

strong foundation for government

policy. Although we are none the

1:27:561:27:59

wiser about what is going to happen

in Northern Ireland, we did learn in

1:27:591:28:04

fairness a bit more about the Prime

Minister's approach in her Mansion

1:28:041:28:08

House speech. Despite the advance

briefing about ambitious managed

1:28:081:28:12

divergence, which I hope has

disappeared into the dustbin of

1:28:121:28:15

history, the Prime Minister did

speak about maintaining regulatory

1:28:151:28:18

alignment. The other thing that was

striking about that speech was the

1:28:181:28:24

frankness with which she

acknowledged that we will inevitably

1:28:241:28:28

have less access to our market. It

has taken a long time to get to this

1:28:281:28:37

point of realism. The cry for many

months from the Secretary of

1:28:371:28:47

State... That truth, we will have

Lex access, was the reason the pound

1:28:471:28:50

fell after the referendum. It is why

the UK has gone from being one of

1:28:501:28:55

the fastest-growing economies to the

slowest, which has just been

1:28:551:28:58

confirmed. The question remains for

the House. What is the right

1:28:581:29:02

approach to manage the risks of

damage to the British economy as the

1:29:021:29:08

process unfolds? I think we all

agree that continuing tariff free

1:29:081:29:12

trade is essential. I simply say,

the most effective way of achieving

1:29:121:29:18

that would be to remain in a customs

union with the European Union. We

1:29:181:29:21

have heard from the minister, 44% of

our exports go to this market. 17%

1:29:211:29:27

go to countries with whom we have

trade agreement. It would be great

1:29:271:29:31

if in responding the Minister could

confirm how the government is

1:29:311:29:34

getting on with ensuring that those

agreements will roll on during the

1:29:341:29:39

transition period, so that

businesses know the terms on which

1:29:391:29:42

they will trade. I will give way.

On

the issue of businesses, companies

1:29:421:29:50

like Jaguar Land Rover in my

constituency don't know where they

1:29:501:29:53

are in relation to regulation of

central development.

My honourable

1:29:531:30:02

friend is absolutely right. That is

one of a whole host of examples that

1:30:021:30:05

members on all sides of the House

are aware of from businesses in our

1:30:051:30:10

constituencies, where they are

asking, how will it work? At the

1:30:101:30:13

moment we do not know. Staying in

the Customs Union is what the CBI

1:30:131:30:17

wants. Government policy on

International trade is one of my

1:30:171:30:24

Korber is. Given the fondness for

purity tariffs, the clear desire of

1:30:241:30:34

the UK administration to open up our

agriculture, do really think that a

1:30:341:30:38

trade agreement with the US is going

to happen any time soon? Do we

1:30:381:30:43

really think we're to get a trade

deal with India before we get more

1:30:431:30:47

visas to their citizens? The idea,

the minister is not in his place,

1:30:471:30:53

the idea that somehow being in the

European Union has stopped us

1:30:531:30:56

trading with the rest of the world

is a nonsense. It is a nonsense. If

1:30:561:31:00

that were the case, how come our

largest single trading partner in

1:31:001:31:05

the world is a country with whom we

do not have a trade agreement? The

1:31:051:31:09

United States of America. Why is it

that our trade with China has

1:31:091:31:11

increased by 64% since 2010, and

China is now our fifth largest

1:31:111:31:19

trading partner? Having said that, I

do think there are areas in which

1:31:191:31:24

the European Union needs to show

greater flexibility in negotiations.

1:31:241:31:29

It has done in particular and

different special deals for its

1:31:291:31:33

external partners, for Canada, for

Norway, for the UK, Switzerland and

1:31:331:31:36

Turkey. If you take the example of

continued participation in EU

1:31:361:31:42

agencies, which are very to business

and trade, the Prime Minister

1:31:421:31:48

referred to examples of the aviation

is the organisation, the chemicals

1:31:481:31:53

agency. I think the EU response,

which was basically to say, no, you

1:31:531:31:57

can't take part, was spectacularly

ill judged. And I think we should

1:31:571:32:04

say to all of those we speak to, you

could have said, let's sit down and

1:32:041:32:08

talk about how we can do this, but

you will have to pay, you will have

1:32:081:32:12

to abide by the rules, you will have

to accept judgments of the European

1:32:121:32:17

Court of Justice. That should not be

a problem for the Prime Minister, in

1:32:171:32:23

a speech on security in Munich, said

in order to maintain co-operation on

1:32:231:32:28

security, we would accept the remit

of the ECJ. That is another example

1:32:281:32:34

of reality beginning to dawn of the

red lines of the government policy.

1:32:341:32:37

On that point of the gulf between

what was promised and what we are

1:32:371:32:42

seeing being delivered economically

and on the issue of Northern

1:32:421:32:45

Ireland, would he be willing to keep

an open mind at least on the merits

1:32:451:32:48

and wisdom of the people having a

say on the Brexit deal?

Although

1:32:481:32:53

tempted by the Honourable member's

intervention... The third issue I

1:32:531:33:06

want to touch on is that of timing.

Although we are two thirds through

1:33:061:33:11

the withdrawal process, we have not

even begun to start negotiating our

1:33:111:33:16

future relationship. For a deal

which is meant to stand us in good

1:33:161:33:19

stead for decades to come macro and

is not something that can be done in

1:33:191:33:23

a hurry. So I make a plea for

flexibility, both in the remainder

1:33:231:33:28

of the Article 50 period and in the

transition period when the bulk of

1:33:281:33:35

the negotiation will be done. The

last thing I wanted to touch on,

1:33:351:33:37

since this is a debate on European

affairs, is some of the broader

1:33:371:33:42

challenges we face in Europe and

Britain's contribution to addressing

1:33:421:33:46

those at a time when so much of our

effort and energy and time is being

1:33:461:33:50

put into dealing with the

consequences of Brexit. Take the

1:33:501:33:55

nerve attack in Salisbury. This is

exactly the kind of circumstance in

1:33:551:33:58

which we need a multilateral

response. The Prime Minister spoke

1:33:581:34:02

about that the other day. In the

case of Europe we knew the closest

1:34:021:34:06

possible cooperation. Yet this is

also the moment when we are

1:34:061:34:10

undermining that cooperation, that

relationship, because of Brexit.

1:34:101:34:15

Then in the hope of rebuilding it. I

accept that is what the Prime

1:34:151:34:18

Minister said she wants to do. In

truth, the use of that nerve agent

1:34:181:34:24

is exactly the reason why we do need

to conclude swiftly and agreement of

1:34:241:34:29

defence, security, foreign policy,

fight against terrorism and

1:34:291:34:32

cooperation with the other member

states. There are so many other

1:34:321:34:35

things we should be turning our

attention to. How can we sustain

1:34:351:34:38

strong economies in Europe? How will

we respond to a wave of nostalgia

1:34:381:34:43

for an age gone by that informed

much of the support for some

1:34:431:34:48

political parties and movements

right across Europe, as they try to

1:34:481:34:52

come macro to terms with an age of

change? When you look at the

1:34:521:35:02

Mediterranean, and the challenges

North African countries face, when

1:35:021:35:07

you think of climate change, the

people who will drought are downpour

1:35:071:35:10

forces them to do so, never mind

people in the end killing each other

1:35:101:35:14

not because of the different

political views, but they are

1:35:141:35:18

fighting over natural resources,

including water... The onward march

1:35:181:35:24

of technology, the challenges and

the fantastic opportunities that

1:35:241:35:27

will create. Therefore, while we

wrestle with what is a desire for

1:35:271:35:32

greater self-determination and

control, we cannot lose faith in the

1:35:321:35:36

multilateral institutions, the

European Union, the UN and others,

1:35:361:35:41

that we created in order to give

ourselves a better chance of dealing

1:35:411:35:46

with those challenges. If we have

learnt one thing from the last 100

1:35:461:35:51

years, never mind the last thousand,

it is that in order to look after

1:35:511:35:55

ourselves we have to look after

others. To do that successfully, we

1:35:551:35:59

have to learn to work together.

1:35:591:36:08

It is always a pleasure to follow

from the member. I would pick up the

1:36:081:36:14

on the points and using multilateral

institutions. But I fear the failure

1:36:141:36:18

of Europe to act in an appropriately

tough way after the murder of

1:36:181:36:25

Alexander Litvinenko may well have

led the Russian state to think they

1:36:251:36:29

could have another go here. I note

in particular, I would have argued

1:36:291:36:35

for sanctions to be applied,

particularly in relation to its gas

1:36:351:36:41

exports. That would have had a big

impact. I support his calls and the

1:36:411:36:49

solidarity shown by Europe. But I

would ask they go further than that

1:36:491:36:53

and be willing to look at strict

measures against the Russian state.

1:36:531:36:59

I would like to address my remarks

not so much on the importance of our

1:36:591:37:05

trade in goods, but our trade in

services. I think that is an area

1:37:051:37:12

that has been underrepresented in

many of the debates that we have had

1:37:121:37:16

on Europe. Particularly in the light

of the rather aggressive statements

1:37:161:37:21

by President Trump in the last few

days. Services are vital and

1:37:211:37:29

constitute almost 80% of our UK GDP

and 80% of UK jobs and 45% of our

1:37:291:37:36

exports. A large part of our service

exports go to Europe. In fact this

1:37:361:37:43

trade is worth £90 million a year

and it is more than the Government

1:37:431:37:49

spends on transport, housing, the

environment, industry, employment

1:37:491:37:53

and agriculture combined. When you

see it in those terms you understand

1:37:531:37:57

the importance of recognising a deal

in the service sector. It is not

1:37:571:38:05

just financial services, it includes

insurance, legal, cultural and

1:38:051:38:10

digital services. I welcome the

Prime Minister's commitment to an

1:38:101:38:14

ambitious and comprehensive deal.

This deal is essential as it will

1:38:141:38:19

have to cover a range of different

sectors, including the service

1:38:191:38:23

sectors with tha -- with their

different needs. I would encourage

1:38:231:38:31

ministers to be bold and I note the

Treasury, or the exit analysis that

1:38:311:38:37

was produced by a number of

Government departments using the

1:38:371:38:42

most up-to-date economic model and

the real threat shown to UK PLC is

1:38:421:38:49

from non-tariff barriers. While we

can have a debate on the customs

1:38:491:38:53

union, I would argue it is the

non-tariff barriers that create the

1:38:531:38:59

biggest threat to the economy.

She

is right to raise non-tariff

1:38:591:39:05

barriers, because the WTO identified

there were 300 barrier that has

1:39:051:39:11

risen to 1,200. Don't you think

Britain can be anned an advocate in

1:39:111:39:22

the WTO and drive this.

There is

nothing to prevent us doing that and

1:39:221:39:28

the tariffs have increased while we

remain a member of the WTO, although

1:39:281:39:33

we are a member of Europe. That is a

real and significant danger to the

1:39:331:39:39

UK economy, I would hope we would be

looking at sectors such as the three

1:39:391:39:43

that I would like to try and

mention, digital, insurance and

1:39:431:39:47

legal. The digital sectors cover a

huge range of industries and not

1:39:471:39:53

just new tech businesses, but a wide

range of services for many companies

1:39:531:39:58

and they're exposed to the same

risks as many other service

1:39:581:40:02

industries. Burr they have to

contend with data protection rules

1:40:021:40:05

that will impact on data flows after

Brexit. Tech UK says digital makes

1:40:051:40:15

up 16% of UK output and 10% of

employment. It is a significant

1:40:151:40:20

export sector. About 96% of output

and 81% of digital exports are in

1:40:201:40:27

services. So that is key. It is

vital that we look at an agreement

1:40:271:40:37

dealing with data flows and data

flows not only with Europe, 70% wis

1:40:371:40:46

Europe, we are one of most advanced

countries in trading online. Our

1:40:461:40:54

consumers are knowledgeable in

buying online. It is port that we

1:40:541:40:59

look at how we can mitigate or

indeed address those issues in

1:40:591:41:05

relation to a future deal. Even if

we maintain identical regulation

1:41:051:41:12

with the EU, there are questions

regarding the legal basis on which

1:41:121:41:17

companies can transfer datas between

the UK and the EU 27. It would be in

1:41:171:41:22

the hands of European commission to

assess whether we had achieveded a

1:41:221:41:29

kwa sichlt failure could force

localisation of data and this

1:41:291:41:37

fragmentation could cause cost to UK

businesses who will have to

1:41:371:41:41

implement alternative structures.

According to one study, it could

1:41:411:41:49

cost between 0.4% and 1% of GDP.

Significant drops in investments and

1:41:491:41:56

exports. This uncertainty over

whether a deal will be struck could

1:41:561:42:01

see companies restrict the amount of

data they store and share in the u

1:42:011:42:07

UK. UK. The recognition by the Prime

Minister that we want to see a role

1:42:071:42:17

for the UK's Information

Commissioners office is welcome. But

1:42:171:42:21

it is vital that we actually deliver

on it and we deliver on it quickly.

1:42:211:42:26

The second area I want to address

was the UK legal services. The UK

1:42:261:42:34

legal services industry has made it

clear that the Sita model does not

1:42:341:42:43

provide a comprehensive framework

for professional services. I would

1:42:431:42:47

argue the Government needs to look

at Norway minus, not Canada plus,

1:42:471:42:53

plus. It is clear that the... Impact

of no deal on services in the legal

1:42:531:43:00

industry would be more dramatic than

it would on the insurance industry,

1:43:001:43:03

because there is a widely

established series of EU directives

1:43:031:43:09

that have created a well functioning

market in legal services in the EU.

1:43:091:43:14

And again this is a sector that is

worth £26 billion to the UK and

1:43:141:43:22

equivalent to 1.5% of GDP and

employs people in high paying jobs.

1:43:221:43:29

And in 2016 there was a net export

of 4 billion from the legal services

1:43:291:43:36

sector into Europe. So it is vital

that when we are looking at the

1:43:361:43:43

customs union and I would argue EE

A, which should be the plan B. I

1:43:431:43:51

agree with my honourable friend the

member for East Renfrewshire, who

1:43:511:43:57

said we absolutely support the Prime

Minister in going out and getting

1:43:571:43:59

that deep and special partnership,

that deep and special deal, but if

1:43:591:44:03

for any reason we cannot achieve

that deal, then the plan B

1:44:031:44:10

alternative should be an EE A EF

avment style deal F you wonder how

1:44:101:44:32

how I preached that conclusion, look

at the analysis from across

1:44:321:44:37

government departments that

indicated an EE A style departure

1:44:371:44:44

would be the least damaging option.

It would allow us to strike trade

1:44:441:44:51

deals as they have trade deals with

57 other countries. We can go out

1:44:511:44:55

and strike trade deals and go into a

market with 900 million people

1:44:551:45:01

potentially and we still do that

trade with China, when the Prime

1:45:011:45:07

Minister returned from her China

visit she had signed £9 billion

1:45:071:45:12

worth of trade deals. I would argue

that is an option that needs to be

1:45:121:45:16

looked at by the government as a

plan B. Thank you.

It is a pleasure

1:45:161:45:28

to follow the member, whose thinking

is similar to mine. But we are in

1:45:281:45:33

the situation where a Conservative

Government finds itself in the

1:45:331:45:37

position of not having a majority in

this Parliament of having big

1:45:371:45:43

divisions among its own backbenchers

and has an arrogant disregard for

1:45:431:45:49

the practical realities, in

particular with regard to its

1:45:491:45:54

negotiation stance on Brexit. From

Brexit means Brexit to deep and

1:45:541:45:59

special relationship and now managed

divergence, it is clear that the

1:45:591:46:02

Prime Minister is trying to find

forms of words that will hold her

1:46:021:46:06

party together. Rather than produce

a firm negotiating stance which is

1:46:061:46:11

understood by the EU and has a

chance of success. The marriage of

1:46:111:46:16

convenience between the Conservative

Party and the Democratic Unionist

1:46:161:46:21

Party can only be sustained by the

payment of £1 billion to Northern

1:46:211:46:27

Ireland and an agreement over not

having a hard border between

1:46:271:46:32

Northern Ireland and the republic.

This is means payment not just to

1:46:321:46:37

Belfast, but on the understanding

that the free movement of goods,

1:46:371:46:40

services and people across the

border between Northern Ireland and

1:46:401:46:45

southern Ireland can be negotiated

successfully with the EU 27, without

1:46:451:46:50

the UK having access to the single

market or being in the customs

1:46:501:46:53

union. On current viewing, this

seems to be highly unlikely at best

1:46:531:46:59

and impossible at worst. Without an

agreement on access to the single

1:46:591:47:03

market, as well as some agreement on

a customs union, it is difficult to

1:47:031:47:08

see how the democratic unionists can

avoid a hard border. Indications

1:47:081:47:13

from Brussels give the impression

that the EU 27 will not be willing

1:47:131:47:17

to agree on an open border, unless

there is some agreement in these two

1:47:171:47:22

areas. This Government has a huge

mountain to climb, and seems to

1:47:221:47:30

think the solution is to placate its

backbenchers rather than carry out

1:47:301:47:34

serious negotiations with our

neighbours. It is now 21 months

1:47:341:47:39

since the referendum and there is

still little agreement between the

1:47:391:47:42

EU and the UK on many key issues.

The leave campaign promised that 350

1:47:421:47:49

million a week extra could be spent

on the NHS if we left the you. Now

1:47:491:47:54

we find the government with the

Foreign Secretary who is one of

1:47:541:47:57

leaders of leave campaign who said

that the EU can go and whistle and

1:47:571:48:02

when he it became clear the UK had

to pay to leave in order to meet its

1:48:021:48:09

obligations, already agree with the

EU. Now the Government has agreed to

1:48:091:48:14

pay 40 to 50 billion to exit the EU.

Which is a contrast to the 350

1:48:141:48:19

million a week that was going to

come wack into the NHS. The

1:48:191:48:25

so-called sufficient progress that

was claimed to have made still

1:48:251:48:30

overlooks the details that will be

required to deal with the hard board

1:48:301:48:34

we are Ireland and to guarantee

citizens rights in a manner

1:48:341:48:38

acceptable to the UK and the EU.

Face two negotiations that should

1:48:381:48:42

focus on the framework of a future

relationship find that the EU is

1:48:421:48:47

focussing on a frame work and the UK

talks about a future relationship.

1:48:471:48:53

Little seems to be agreed on whether

the transitional deal can be

1:48:531:48:58

extended beyond two years and a date

of October to formalise talks is too

1:48:581:49:05

late to give businesses any

certainty as to how they can

1:49:051:49:09

continue to conduct business with

companies across the EU 27 states.

1:49:091:49:15

My own view, similar to the member

is the UK should have adopted a

1:49:151:49:22

stance to realise an outcome similar

to that of Norway. Which has access

1:49:221:49:28

to the single market, despite the

fact that it is not a member of EU.

1:49:281:49:31

I would like to have seen a

discussion around a customs union

1:49:311:49:36

that would be far better than that

of Turkeys that we could have

1:49:361:49:41

negotiated in good faith. We have

Prime Minister who says we don't

1:49:411:49:44

want to be in a single market or in

the customs union. The Prime

1:49:441:49:48

Minister wants a bespoke trade deal

just for the UK, but is oblivious to

1:49:481:49:56

the fact that proposals under mine

the single market. The intro-Dux Dux

1:49:561:50:07

of -- concept of managed divergence

seems to be more about the

1:50:071:50:14

differences on the backbench of the

Conservative Party. The checkers

1:50:141:50:21

Brexit away day deal held to obtain

a truce between the warring factions

1:50:211:50:30

of the Conservative Party came with

a stance of managed divergence. This

1:50:301:50:33

was a form of words that Sachsed

both the Breck tiers and the

1:50:331:50:38

remainers but will find no support

in the EU 27 when those negotiations

1:50:381:50:44

finally get going. The EU wishes the

Prime Minister to come forward with

1:50:441:50:48

her vision of a relationship between

the EU and the UK for the future.

1:50:481:50:56

The managed divergence the Prime

Minister talks of is known as the

1:50:561:50:59

three basket approach. Because it

has three tiers. The core with where

1:50:591:51:06

the UK would align with regulations,

a mid tier, where there was managed

1:51:061:51:12

mutual recognition of rules, such as

in environmental protection and an

1:51:121:51:16

outer tier where the UK could

diverge from EU rules with no

1:51:161:51:25

consequences. The notion that EU

will accept three different baskets

1:51:251:51:33

in arrangements with the UK is

delusional and makes the Government

1:51:331:51:40

looks like a basket case. It is like

watching a car crash in slow motion,

1:51:401:51:45

but as the driver the Prime Minister

is holding her hands over her eye

1:51:451:51:49

and trying to convince the

passengers, that is the public that

1:51:491:51:53

everything will be fine. This can

only result in humiliation of the

1:51:531:51:58

Prime Minister and it is made clear

that managed divergence is not

1:51:581:52:04

acceptable and an inflexible

attitude to the customs union and

1:52:041:52:09

the court of justice cannot

continue.

1:52:091:52:16

One can envisage the outcome being a

hard Brexit. This is the favoured

1:52:161:52:23

outcome of some of the Brexiteers in

her own party. The Prime Minister

1:52:231:52:31

should stiffen resolve now, tell her

recalcitrant backbenchers that are

1:52:311:52:36

trading relationship with the EU is

still important, even though we are

1:52:361:52:40

leaving the EU, and get down to some

serious negotiations that will

1:52:401:52:45

preserve jobs and businesses up and

down this country, into -- instead

1:52:451:52:49

of leading us to a cliff edge which

will result in a WTO style

1:52:491:52:53

agreement.

Thank you. I would like to focus my

1:52:531:52:58

remarks today on the ongoing

negotiations between Scotland' to

1:52:581:53:03

governments. It will have an impact

on Scotland's ability to do business

1:53:031:53:11

and to do trade, especially if we

get it wrong. These negotiations are

1:53:111:53:16

ongoing. The UK government has now

published its amendment to close 11

1:53:161:53:21

of the withdrawal bill. Another Bill

Lunde Brexit is being rushed through

1:53:211:53:26

the Scottish parliament by the SNP

Scottish government. The EU

1:53:261:53:31

Withdrawal Bill may have its faults,

Mr Deputy Speaker, but one thing you

1:53:311:53:37

can say is it is legal. The same

cannot be said for the SNP

1:53:371:53:44

government's bill currently being

considered by Hollywood. It has been

1:53:441:53:48

ruled unlawful by the presiding

officer. Strongly criticised as

1:53:481:53:53

inconsistent by a range of experts.

And yet it is still being rushed

1:53:531:53:57

through in a few days with minimal

scrutiny.

The continuity bill has

1:53:571:54:06

not been declared illegal by anyone.

There is a question over a disc its

1:54:061:54:12

competency by the presiding officer.

As he well knows, the Lord Advocate

1:54:121:54:16

has said it has been carefully

drafted so it is not incompatible

1:54:161:54:20

with EU law. He says it will do

nothing to alter EU law until we are

1:54:201:54:28

out of Brexit. It is simply

preparing for Brexit in the same way

1:54:281:54:33

the UK withdrawal bill is doing. I

hope the illegal word will be

1:54:331:54:36

withdrawn for the sake of clarity.

I'm grateful for the point he makes.

1:54:361:54:44

I would remind him that the Lord

Advocate is actually a Scottish

1:54:441:54:49

government minister. So of course he

is going to be supportive of what

1:54:491:54:53

the Scottish government is

proposing. The presiding officer is

1:54:531:54:59

the ultimate determining body as to

which bills are qualified to come

1:54:591:55:02

macro through the Scottish

government.

There appears to be this

1:55:021:55:07

narrative being perpetuated that the

presiding officer read the draft

1:55:071:55:15

Bill and came up with the conclusion

on his own as opposed to having a

1:55:151:55:19

range of extensive and high-quality

legal advice from a range of leading

1:55:191:55:24

authors.

I think the honourable

member makes an excellent point. The

1:55:241:55:28

presiding officer has done this with

the advice of lawyers and other

1:55:281:55:33

advice as well. It is misjudged by

the Scottish government David

1:55:331:55:37

Beckham push ahead with this

regardless of the view of the

1:55:371:55:41

presiding officer. There are some

230 amendments to the bill. It was

1:55:411:55:50

planned to be a single sitting

starting last night. Late nights may

1:55:501:55:54

not be unusual here but it is

unprecedented in the Scottish

1:55:541:55:58

Parliament for so many amendments to

be given so little time to be

1:55:581:56:01

considered. I would remind

honourable and right Honourable

1:56:011:56:05

members that the chamber of the

Scottish parliament is only given

1:56:051:56:08

one opportunity to consider a bill

in detail, and the Scottish

1:56:081:56:13

Parliament has no revising chamber

to make improvements at a later

1:56:131:56:15

stage. To force through so many

amendments in so little time is not

1:56:151:56:19

the way to legislate. The very fact

that opposition MSP 's were able to

1:56:191:56:26

identify hundreds of problems with

this bill, and given only a handful

1:56:261:56:31

of days to consider it, should be

awake up call for the Scottish

1:56:311:56:35

government.

I think the honourable

member. Just referring to his

1:56:351:56:38

earlier point on the lawfulness of

the continuity bill, does my right

1:56:381:56:44

honourable friend agree that in

Wales the presiding officer has

1:56:441:56:49

deemed that this is indeed lawful in

Wales?

I'm grateful for that point.

1:56:491:56:56

The legislation in the Scottish

parliament is different to that

1:56:561:57:00

which created the Welsh Assembly. I

don't the powers are similar or

1:57:001:57:04

might not. As someone who served in

the Scottish Parliament for ten

1:57:041:57:08

years, it is the determination of

the presiding officer as to the

1:57:081:57:11

competency of bills. The presiding

officer was very clear this bill was

1:57:111:57:16

not competent. If passed, the bill

would give Scottish ministers a raft

1:57:161:57:20

of Paris, including the power to

decide which bits of EU law it wants

1:57:201:57:24

to adopt into domestic law.

Decisions which rest, decisions I

1:57:241:57:31

would suggest should rest with the

Scottish parliament. And that, I

1:57:311:57:34

would suggest, is the real power

grab. It will do nothing to help

1:57:341:57:39

Scotland to do trade or might

protect businesses in Scotland that

1:57:391:57:43

do trade with the rest of the EU or

around the world. The very fact the

1:57:431:57:49

SNP government is pushing this

through Holyrood, ignoring the views

1:57:491:57:52

of the presiding officer and

avoiding scrutiny from MSPs, shows

1:57:521:57:58

what the SNP really think of the

Scottish Parliament and democratic

1:57:581:58:02

accountability.

I have a huge amount

of respect for him but I hope he

1:58:021:58:07

will put on record that the only

part of the Scottish Parliament that

1:58:071:58:13

opposes this legislation is the

Scottish Conservative Party. As for

1:58:131:58:19

the committee system, he is a former

member of the Parliament and he

1:58:191:58:22

knows full well the legislation is

scrutinising committee.

I also

1:58:221:58:28

understand the huge inadequacies of

the committee system. The other

1:58:281:58:31

place here is not perfect but at

least it has the ability to amend

1:58:311:58:34

and genuinely scrutinise. Yesterday

there were more than four hours of

1:58:341:58:40

debate. How many minutes the SNP

backbenchers contributed? Just over

1:58:401:58:45

two minutes of debate time yesterday

was spent by SNP backbench MSP is

1:58:451:58:52

scrutinising this continuity bill.

That shows the level of

1:58:521:58:57

accountability you get from SNP MSPs

to their government. Ever since the

1:58:571:59:04

introduction of the EU Withdrawal

Bill, ever since the EU referendum

1:59:041:59:06

result was known, the SNP have been

desperately trying to make Brexit

1:59:061:59:09

into an excuse to have another go

for independence. I'm pleased to say

1:59:091:59:18

that Scots are not buying it. As it

has just been pointed out, rather

1:59:181:59:22

than creating a bandwagon in favour

of independence, it has exposed a

1:59:221:59:28

fissure in the nationalist movement

that Nicola Sturgeon has failed to

1:59:281:59:32

struggle. The introduction of the

continuity bill is the latest

1:59:321:59:35

attempt at this. It is damaging

because it makes a deal about these

1:59:351:59:41

powers, a deal which the SNP claims

it wants to make, less not more

1:59:411:59:46

likely. It adds more constitutional

uncertainty as an already difficult

1:59:461:59:51

time and will do nothing to

Scotland's ability to trade with the

1:59:511:59:54

rest of the EU. And just as

importantly, other countries around

1:59:541:59:58

the world. The SNP's bill was

unnecessary because we know we have

1:59:582:00:03

an amendment to the EU Withdrawal

Bill which essentially flips clause

2:00:032:00:06

11 around and which is accompanied

by a list from the UK government of

2:00:062:00:10

areas where the UK Common framework

is now necessary. No such list, I

2:00:102:00:15

note, has been produced by the

Scottish government. It is critical

2:00:152:00:21

for us to do trade across the United

Kingdom and other countries around

2:00:212:00:23

the world. Let's step back from the

rhetoric and the grandstanding

2:00:232:00:29

coming from the Nationalists on the

benches opposite and indeed in the

2:00:292:00:32

Scottish government. If we step

back, this is really a minor

2:00:322:00:39

disagreement. The list of powers the

SNP are claiming will be taken away

2:00:392:00:43

from the Scottish Parliament

includes things like late payment of

2:00:432:00:47

commercial debts and the labelling

of honey. These may well be

2:00:472:00:50

important powers, but is it really

been discussed around the tables of

2:00:502:00:56

Scotland? I think not. More

importantly, despite the rhetoric of

2:00:562:01:06

the power grab, the reality is not a

single one of these powers is being

2:01:062:01:11

taken away from the Scottish

Parliament. The Scottish parliament

2:01:112:01:16

does not control these powers

currently. Brussels does. And the

2:01:162:01:21

majority of these powers will be

coming to the Scottish parliament.

2:01:212:01:24

The so-called power grabs in

Westminster will be sending new

2:01:242:01:29

powers Holyrood macro's away. --

Holyrood's. Despite talk of a

2:01:292:01:39

crisis, the UK and Scottish

government agreed on the way

2:01:392:01:42

forward. The vast majority of these

powers, built up in Brussels, will

2:01:422:01:47

return to the Scottish parliament.

Some will require a UK wide

2:01:472:01:52

frameworks. Both the UK and Scottish

government agree on this approach.

2:01:522:01:59

Every time you mention the SNP, if

you had a drink you would be drunk

2:01:592:02:04

by now! I remember the days when he

believed the consent of the Scottish

2:02:042:02:08

parliament would be required. What

has happened?

I'm grateful for that

2:02:082:02:15

point. I think we accept the consent

of the Scottish Parliament is

2:02:152:02:17

required. But your party leader,

Nicola Sturgeon, in Holyrood macro

2:02:172:02:25

is creating division, deliberately

not reaching that agreement to stoke

2:02:252:02:29

up what you think will get you to

your ultimate goal, the second

2:02:292:02:33

referendum on independence. We're

having none of it. Absolutely none

2:02:332:02:39

of it. It makes sense to ensure

businesses do not face the risk of

2:02:392:02:42

new barriers to trade in other parts

of the United Kingdom. The Scottish

2:02:422:02:46

government accepts that. An example

would be different labelling

2:02:462:02:51

requirements or different rules on

pesticides across the UK. It would

2:02:512:02:54

stifle trade and is not in the

interest of Scottish business. The

2:02:542:02:58

only disagreement is how this

approach is implemented. Hardly an

2:02:582:03:05

excuse to push through an unlawful

and rushed bill, as the SNP are

2:03:052:03:11

currently trying to do.

It is always fascinating for those

2:03:112:03:17

on this site to listen to the debate

going on among Scottish colleagues

2:03:172:03:20

on this issue. Is he not remotely

concerned that his government is

2:03:202:03:25

being propped up by the votes of the

DUP in this chamber and the

2:03:252:03:31

austerity and the Brexit demands

that is forcing on our constituents

2:03:312:03:35

is not greater undermining of the

union that what he's about

2:03:352:03:37

currently?

I'm grateful for the

point. I totally rejected. Our

2:03:372:03:45

objective is to achieve the best

deal for all of the United Kingdom,

2:03:452:03:49

all part of the United Kingdom,

including Scotland...

2:03:492:03:54

Order! Order, Chuka Umunna.

Thank

you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I welcome

2:03:542:04:01

this debate but I don't welcome the

fact that the government continually

2:04:012:04:04

duck having votes in this house on

these matters. I don't welcome the

2:04:042:04:09

fact the government continue to do

everything they can to withhold

2:04:092:04:12

appropriate information so that we

can come to an informed view on

2:04:122:04:16

behalf of other constituents. I

should say that my own view is that

2:04:162:04:20

when we are asked to vote on the

withdrawal agreement the Prime

2:04:202:04:26

Minister is supposed to return to

this House with in the autumn, I

2:04:262:04:29

believe we should be granted a free

vote on that agreement, given the

2:04:292:04:32

magnitude of what we are dealing

with and the importance it poses

2:04:322:04:36

future generations in this country.

It is clear, and we can see this

2:04:362:04:40

every single day, that the Brexit

process has been a total and utter

2:04:402:04:45

mess. Article 50 should never have

been invoked at the time it was

2:04:452:04:52

invoked. We should have had the

debate we're having now before it

2:04:522:04:56

was invoked. I think it's quite

extraordinary that we have only been

2:04:562:05:00

given serious detail by the Prime

this month, more than a year and a

2:05:002:05:05

half after she took office and when

we are halfway through these Brexit

2:05:052:05:10

negotiations. Only now do we seem to

have more clarity from the

2:05:102:05:13

government as to the direction they

wish to take this country in these

2:05:132:05:18

Brexit negotiations. I give the

Prime Minister this. Her speech was

2:05:182:05:23

significant because for the first

time it officially acknowledged what

2:05:232:05:26

we know to be true. Which is that

the government is voluntarily

2:05:262:05:31

choosing to pursue a policy which

they have admitted is going to make

2:05:312:05:37

this country poorer. The Prime

Minister, in that speech, was very

2:05:372:05:41

clear. We are going to get less

access, we were not get a

2:05:412:05:45

frictionless border. She was talking

about as frictionless border as

2:05:452:05:48

possible. It is now used the

Minister shaking his head. We know

2:05:482:05:54

from the impact assessments they

have commissioned from their own

2:05:542:05:57

civil servants, that the options

they are choosing to pursue are

2:05:572:06:01

going to make this country poorer.

And let's be clear. For all this

2:06:012:06:06

talk that are EU friends are seeking

to bully our country, seeking to

2:06:062:06:10

punish our country, they are not. At

the outset we put a range of options

2:06:102:06:15

on the table, including remaining a

member of the single market and the

2:06:152:06:18

Customs Union, and it was this Prime

Minister we took those options off

2:06:182:06:21

the table.

2:06:212:06:27

I'm grateful to my honourable friend

because he is right. The European

2:06:272:06:30

partners have said quite queerly

that the red lines that the

2:06:302:06:33

Government have set themselves,

meaning the they wish to achieve our

2:06:332:06:36

impossible. So it is highly unlikely

that we should blame the EU partners

2:06:362:06:41

for that when they are the

Government's redline. Yellow my

2:06:412:06:44

honourable friend is absolutely

right. It

is the Prime Minister who

2:06:442:06:48

is dictating the kind of agreement

that we will reach with the European

2:06:482:06:51

Union. Let us be clear what has

happened since 2016. In March 2016,

2:06:512:07:01

the Office for Budget Responsibility

was forecasting that our economy was

2:07:012:07:03

going to grow to .1% this year, next

year and the year after. And because

2:07:032:07:10

of the judgments, and because of the

decisions that this government has

2:07:102:07:13

made, the forecast is now saying

that our economy is going to grow by

2:07:132:07:17

a paltry 1.5% this year, 1.3% next

year, 1.3% the year after. I say to

2:07:172:07:26

the Minister, never before since the

work and I remember a time where you

2:07:262:07:32

have had a GDP forecast in every

year which comes in under 2%. And

2:07:322:07:36

that is the result of the policy

decisions that he is making. I will

2:07:362:07:39

give way.

The Government strategy in

relation is negotiated as a

2:07:392:07:48

shambles, but more importantly what

the Government is banking on that

2:07:482:07:53

the talk of administration bailing

them out. They think they are going

2:07:532:07:56

to get some great deals from

administration, but if you look at

2:07:562:08:00

agriculture, farming, that sort of

stuff, they are not going to get any

2:08:002:08:02

great deals at all.

I completely

agree with my honourable friend. I

2:08:022:08:07

will come to that shortly. I should

say one of the most extraordinary

2:08:072:08:11

things I found with the Prime

minister's speech, particularly

2:08:112:08:14

given so many of her Cabinet

Ministers went around telling us

2:08:142:08:18

that if we voted to leave the

European Union it was going to lead

2:08:182:08:21

to a Nazi for the NHS. I found it

extraordinary that she did not

2:08:212:08:26

explain how this will help the NHS

-- it will lead to a bouncy for the

2:08:262:08:30

NHS. The US applications are down

96% particularly because in the year

2:08:302:08:37

after the referendum vote, we lost

10,000 health workers from our NHS.

2:08:372:08:44

This is at a time where we have got

100,000 vacancies in the NHS, which

2:08:442:08:48

need to be filled. Not to mention of

this at all, which I find totally...

2:08:482:08:57

Well, it was the director of the

book 'leave' campaign I think who

2:08:572:08:59

said that people like the Foreign

Secretary and people like the

2:08:592:09:03

environment secretary and Trade

Secretary not going around saying

2:09:032:09:05

what they step on the NHS we

wouldn't actually be in the

2:09:052:09:08

situation that we are in. And let me

come to the point that my honourable

2:09:082:09:12

friend has just made about these new

trade deals because of course I do

2:09:122:09:16

agree with the Ministers colleague

who opened this debate that it isn't

2:09:162:09:19

an either or choice as to whether we

pursue EU trade or we pursue trade

2:09:192:09:23

with the rest of the world. In spite

of the fact that that it's actually

2:09:232:09:26

an argument that is very often made

from that despatch box by people.

2:09:262:09:29

Let's get real about this. It is not

a question of whether this country

2:09:292:09:32

is going to be able to do trade

deals, after we have left the

2:09:322:09:35

European Union. We will be able to

do trade deals after we left the

2:09:352:09:39

European Union, if we leave the

European Union. The question is on

2:09:392:09:42

what terms? And we are not going to

get the same terms as we enjoyed

2:09:422:09:47

what we are negotiating with half a

billion other people on one side of

2:09:472:09:49

the table, then negotiating sale of

China with their 1.6 billion people.

2:09:492:09:55

We will not get the same terms we

are 65 million people, a much

2:09:552:09:59

smaller economy relative to these

bigger economies who want to do more

2:09:592:10:01

trade. That is the reality here. My

honourable friend was right to refer

2:10:012:10:07

to President Trump. He is not going

to write to our rescue. You just

2:10:072:10:10

need to see what he is doing to our

steel industry, 25% in tariffs. The

2:10:102:10:15

final observation I make about Prime

Minister his speech is I have not

2:10:152:10:19

spoke to any diplomat, any EU

ambassador, any EU foreign Minister

2:10:192:10:24

who thinks that the solution that

the Government has put forward for

2:10:242:10:29

the hard border in Northern Ireland

and Ireland, I haven't spoken to any

2:10:292:10:35

diplomat who thinks that the

Government solution to technology is

2:10:352:10:38

going to resolve that issue. Nobody

I have spoken to believe that will

2:10:382:10:42

happen. So what does that lead me to

conclude, Mr Deputy Speaker? Brexit

2:10:422:10:51

in the form that it was sold to the

British people is simply not

2:10:512:10:55

deliverable.

Hear, hear!

And I will give this to the

2:10:552:11:00

Government, it isn't necessarily

simply a matter of competence. It is

2:11:002:11:02

a reality that so many of the

promises that were made to people,

2:11:022:11:08

whether you voted leaf or remain,

suddenly those promises that simply

2:11:082:11:11

cannot be delivered. That is the

reality of the situation. And that

2:11:112:11:15

is one of the reasons that I think

at the very least we all are the

2:11:152:11:20

honourable member for Edinburgh made

this point, and my friend the Member

2:11:202:11:22

for the central made this point as

well, at the very least if we are to

2:11:222:11:26

leave the European Union we should

be seeking to keep this country

2:11:262:11:29

fully participating in the customs

union and to my mind fully

2:11:292:11:33

participating in the single market

as well. Let us be clear that as far

2:11:332:11:39

as I'm concerned, if you want to and

austerity and if you want to promote

2:11:392:11:45

social justice, you have got to be

supporting that position. There is

2:11:452:11:51

no impediment to us if you want to

implement the Labour manifesto doing

2:11:512:11:55

so, being part of the framework of

the single market and the customs

2:11:552:11:58

union. There is no impediment to us

pursuing the nationalizations we

2:11:582:12:01

wish to do and other matters. I'll

finish by saying this, Mr Deputy

2:12:012:12:06

Speaker. One of the things that I am

most struck by as I go around my

2:12:062:12:12

constituency at the moment, and the

truth is I think many members of the

2:12:122:12:16

public are just fed up with this

Brexit process. They just want it to

2:12:162:12:20

be gone. They want us to just get on

with it. But I think there is a

2:12:202:12:24

recognition that is a far much more

complex process than anybody

2:12:242:12:27

thought. It is throwing up all kinds

of issues, nobody thought will be

2:12:272:12:31

connected to Brexit. The

transportation of the isotopes used

2:12:312:12:36

for medical research and counsel

treatment. Who on earth would have

2:12:362:12:38

thought that Brexit would be

connected to that? But the group of

2:12:382:12:42

people in my constituency who have

the most visceral and strong views

2:12:422:12:45

about what is going on are the young

people in my constituency, who

2:12:452:12:50

frankly believe that what is going

on is robbing them of the

2:12:502:12:55

opportunities older generations have

taken for granted. They cannot

2:12:552:13:00

understand why we would want to be

doing this to them. And this is why

2:13:002:13:04

I say that I think in the end of

this House should have a free vote

2:13:042:13:08

on this matter. Because for me, this

is an issue that transcends our key

2:13:082:13:12

politics, it transcends politics. It

is an issue of national interest.

2:13:122:13:17

And I tell you, Mr Deputy Speaker, I

do not believe that younger

2:13:172:13:20

generation will ever forgive us,

will ever forget the generation of

2:13:202:13:26

politicians sitting at his House of

Commons if we don't do the right

2:13:262:13:29

thing by them and secure their

futures, ensuring they have the same

2:13:292:13:33

opportunities that all of us enjoy

now in that European Union.

Hear,

2:13:332:13:37

hear!

Thank you very much, Mr Deputy

2:13:372:13:42

Speaker. As someone who actually

represents I hope the young people

2:13:422:13:45

of the next-generation, I don't

share pessimism because the great

2:13:452:13:47

Brexit rise will be regaining our

ability to strike new trade deals

2:13:472:13:55

across the world. Not only will

pretty rejoin the rest of the world,

2:13:552:13:58

but it will have the opportunity to

lead the rest of the world as a

2:13:582:14:02

global free trading nation,

championing trade liberalization and

2:14:022:14:08

taking on the voices of

protectionism. So let us be clear,

2:14:082:14:13

we are not leaving Europe or turning

our backs on a European neighbours

2:14:132:14:18

and partners. Privately Prime

Minister has been explicit that the

2:14:182:14:21

Government is seeking a deep and

comprehensive trade deal with the EU

2:14:212:14:26

that covers goods as well as

services. By leaving the customs

2:14:262:14:33

union, the UK will regain its

ability to set its own independent

2:14:332:14:36

trade policy. Our trade with the EU

is in deficit and declining, as the

2:14:362:14:43

Minister stated in opening. It was

56% in 2006. Now down to 43% today.

2:14:432:14:50

And while our trade with the rest of

the world is actually in surplus and

2:14:502:14:53

rising. We shouldn't play down the

importance of Europe as a trading

2:14:532:14:58

market and partner, but we must

orientate ourselves towards the

2:14:582:15:04

thriving economies and the rest of

the world such as south and East

2:15:042:15:08

Asia and their growing demand for

goods and services. 57% of

2:15:082:15:13

Britain's's exports are now to

outside of the EU compared with only

2:15:132:15:17

46% and in 2006. Further the IMF

estimate that the next 10-15 years

2:15:172:15:27

90% of global economic growth will

originate from outside the EU.

2:15:272:15:33

International demands for British

goods is growing. And Aberdeen,

2:15:332:15:37

which I represent, is well-placed to

take of this. Where 90% of

2:15:372:15:42

manufacturing in the city get

exported. Mainly an oil and gas and

2:15:422:15:47

environmental engineering. Because

the oil and gas industry is a truly

2:15:472:15:52

global one. Which is anchored right

here in the UK. Current industry

2:15:522:15:59

exports account for 43% of the UK

supply chain, over and 2017, which

2:15:592:16:05

is up from 41% in 2016. Oil and gas

UK's vision 2030 has the ambitious

2:16:052:16:14

aim of doubling the supply chain

share of the global market from 3.7%

2:16:142:16:22

to 7.4% in 2035. The group based in

Mike assiduously is an example of

2:16:222:16:28

this. -- my constituency. They were

established back in 1980 and they

2:16:282:16:32

specialise in subsidy buoyancy,

renewable energy and also

2:16:322:16:36

engineering solutions. In the play a

round about 500 people in Aberdeen.

2:16:362:16:42

And they are highly dependent on the

export market. And they are

2:16:422:16:46

currently focusing on West Africa,

South America and the Gulf of

2:16:462:16:50

Mexico. And they have been so clear

with me that their only opportunity

2:16:502:16:56

for growth is in the X port market.

And I know they have already been

2:16:562:17:00

working very closely with the

Department for International Trade,

2:17:002:17:03

on trying to exploit those

opportunities. And it is actually

2:17:032:17:09

thanks to the investment from the UK

government that the oil and gas to

2:17:092:17:14

technology centre in my constituency

was set up. And they are working

2:17:142:17:19

with the oil industry in developing

solutions, new technology and

2:17:192:17:23

innovation to maximise the full

potential of the UK North Sea from

2:17:232:17:29

assets integrity to maximizing

covering small. Drilling to

2:17:292:17:34

decommissioning. And the technology

that is developed right in my own

2:17:342:17:38

constituency of Aberdeen is

exportable and opportunities are

2:17:382:17:40

massive. The Northeast is also home,

as my colleague highlighted, is a

2:17:402:17:49

home to a thriving food and drink

industry. And it is known also for

2:17:492:17:53

its frisky escorts -- exports. A

less told stories that of our other

2:17:532:17:58

domestic exports and here are a few

examples. In fishing we have got

2:17:582:18:05

companies like McDuck chauffeurs,

denim seafoods, who are exporting to

2:18:052:18:09

countries like Nigeria, China,

Vietnam, Uruguay and Ukraine. I will

2:18:092:18:14

take an intervention.

During the EU

referendum campaign the honourable

2:18:142:18:21

gentleman was pictured outside the

Scottish Parliament with a placard

2:18:212:18:23

saying vote no, Vote Leave to bring

control of our fishing back to be

2:18:232:18:29

democratically elected Scottish

Parliament. Will he be recirculating

2:18:292:18:31

that image?

I'm very grateful to the

honourable member for raising that.

2:18:312:18:37

It is so clear we are leaving the

European Union, taking back control

2:18:372:18:42

of our watchers for over 200

nautical miles. Giving us the

2:18:422:18:47

opportunity to rejuvenate our

coastal communities. We are

2:18:472:18:52

supporting Scottish fishermen. The

party that went to sell them down

2:18:522:18:54

the river, back to Brussels, handing

all those powers right back and

2:18:542:19:00

keeping them trapped within the

confines of the common fisheries

2:19:002:19:04

policy as every single member of the

SNP. I will take no lectures from

2:19:042:19:09

the benches opposite on the benefits

of Brexit for fishermen! Potatoes,

2:19:092:19:16

Mr Deputy Speaker, is also, no thank

you I would like to make some

2:19:162:19:21

process I've only got three minutes.

In Aberdeen, sought or seeds,

2:19:212:19:27

exporting the potatoes to Thailand,

Egypt, Israel, Saudi Arabia and

2:19:272:19:32

Brazil. And these are just some

examples of what is happening in my

2:19:322:19:37

region. There is a huge interest

nationally... Sorry, would you like

2:19:372:19:46

to...

I'm grateful to the honourable

member for giving way. He is talking

2:19:462:19:51

about the economy. Does he believe

the figures that the UK government

2:19:512:19:55

have produced about the head to GDP

from leaving the EU? Does he believe

2:19:552:19:58

it was like thank you, Mr Deputy

Speaker. No, because the figures

2:19:582:20:01

that have been produced about I will

be clear, the figures that have been

2:20:012:20:05

produced are not based on what the

Prime Minister

said herself she

2:20:052:20:09

wants to achieve which is a defence

vessel relationship with Europe.

2:20:092:20:14

None of those are based on that

assumption. So there are huge

2:20:142:20:18

opportunities for Aberdeen and the

wider Northeast to use our

2:20:182:20:23

competitive advantage to service the

benefit of Brexit. We must set our

2:20:232:20:27

sights on the future, a new global

future. It would not be in our

2:20:272:20:33

interest or the EU's interest to see

any unnecessary restrictions on

2:20:332:20:37

trade. I am confident that the Prime

Minister will deliver a new

2:20:372:20:41

partnership. A bespoke partnership.

Which will support our mutual

2:20:412:20:44

interests. The UK is the world's

fifth-largest economy. The

2:20:442:20:50

fifth-largest exporter and the

second greatest soft power. Our

2:20:502:20:55

worldwide presence in reinforced by

our global brands. Our creative

2:20:552:21:01

industries and the reputation of our

universities. Bridgen is truly

2:21:012:21:06

global. And we must be ambitious to

maximise the Golden Brexit trade

2:21:062:21:14

opportunities that lie ahead of us.

Thank you very much, Mr Deputy

2:21:142:21:17

Speaker.

2:21:172:21:27

The approaching constitutional

crisis that this government is

2:21:272:21:29

planning to bring about. This Tory

government continues to put the

2:21:292:21:33

established as additional order and

devolution settlement at risk. With

2:21:332:21:37

their blatant power grab of devolved

powers. After months of debating,

2:21:372:21:44

and meetings, they are still

struggling to grasp the concept of

2:21:442:21:49

content. Of devolved

administrations. We must not cede

2:21:492:21:55

powers devolved under the current

devolution settlement going from

2:21:552:21:59

Brussels to Westminster, without

consent from Cardiff and Edinburgh.

2:21:592:22:03

During the last meeting of the joint

ministerial committee, the Welsh

2:22:032:22:07

Government was told that the UK

government would not be pressing

2:22:072:22:11

amendments on this to a vote before

further discussions. Today, it is

2:22:112:22:19

down to the Prime Minister and first

Minister of both Wales and Scotland

2:22:192:22:23

to try and end this stalemate. But I

do not see any new offer coming

2:22:232:22:28

forward, and time is running out.

And it is very troubling that even

2:22:282:22:33

though the Welsh Government

compromised by accepting several

2:22:332:22:37

rules and regulations currently

decided in Brussels will need to be

2:22:372:22:41

operated on a UK wide basis, that

this UK government cannot bring

2:22:412:22:46

themselves to reassure the devolved

administrations that their consent

2:22:462:22:50

and agreement will be stored. Mr

Debbie Speaker, it is just not good

2:22:502:22:57

enough. In Wales, we are being

expected to accept decisions up to

2:22:572:23:05

24 policy areas. Agriculture,

pesticide, animal welfare, organic

2:23:052:23:11

farming, environment, take all these

decisions, taken in Westminster

2:23:112:23:15

without any consultation, without

consent, from Cardiff. I will give

2:23:152:23:20

way.

How much influence the Welsh

government currently has, and works

2:23:202:23:27

within the EU and whether the EU

contains consent within the Welsh

2:23:272:23:33

government.

I think the honourable

member for his question, but he is

2:23:332:23:36

missing the point. We are looking at

those powers coming back to

2:23:362:23:42

Westminster. They should be going

back to Cardiff and Edinburgh, where

2:23:422:23:45

those powers are devolved. Both

Cardiff and Edinburgh, Wales and

2:23:452:23:51

Scotland play a part in those

discussions. At EU level, all of the

2:23:512:23:55

time I will give way.

I am sure we

will agree that the devolution

2:23:552:24:01

settlement is clear, that something

is not preserved, is devolved, and

2:24:012:24:05

that is why this does pose...

Absolutely. I agree with the

2:24:052:24:14

honourable member, this does

constitute an absolute power grab

2:24:142:24:18

from this UK government. Until we

see substantial change to the U

2:24:182:24:24

withdrawal bill, there is a need for

the continuity bill. It would be

2:24:242:24:29

preferable to continue to protect

devolution, by the EU withdrawal

2:24:292:24:34

bill. That is what I want to see.

Should agreement not be reached, a

2:24:342:24:39

continuity bill becomes one of the

most important pieces of legislation

2:24:392:24:42

ever to be scrutinised by the Welsh

Assembly. Can I pay tribute to my

2:24:422:24:49

colleague Mark Drakeford, the

Cabinet Secretary and Wales, for

2:24:492:24:53

pursuing this important piece of

legislature, in the absence of the

2:24:532:24:58

agreement being forthcoming from

this UK Tory government. The Bill is

2:24:582:25:03

a complex piece of legislation, but

it is a very clear on its aims. It

2:25:032:25:08

is intended to deal with the

inevitable consequences in domestic

2:25:082:25:13

law of withdrawal from the European

Union by preserving EU law. Covering

2:25:132:25:19

subjects already evolved to Wales

and will enable Welsh Ministers to

2:25:192:25:24

make necessary changes to ensure

legislation works at the point of

2:25:242:25:29

withdrawal. That is what we need to

see. But Mr Deputy Speaker, it is

2:25:292:25:34

not just car of an Edinburgh that

this government has questions to

2:25:342:25:40

answer. It is for people everywhere.

My constituency of Cardiff, Wales,

2:25:402:25:46

UK, and to our friends and allies

across Europe, after months of this

2:25:462:25:49

government trying to cover-up the

impact assessments of Brexit, MPs

2:25:492:25:55

are finally allowed to go and see

them. As I did. I made the

2:25:552:25:59

appointment, handed over my phone,

which was locked in a covert, and

2:25:592:26:04

was allowed the hour to look at

them. A week later, they were

2:26:042:26:09

distributed everywhere. I was

concerned, Mr Deputy Speaker, to

2:26:092:26:14

read that the Government's on

assessment is that this countrymake

2:26:142:26:19

economic growth will suffer under

any of the existing models for a

2:26:192:26:23

future relationship with the EU.

Under the worst-case scenario, WTO

2:26:232:26:30

type agreement, which has often been

impaled by members of the opposite

2:26:302:26:37

ventures as a perfectly acceptable

option, GDP could decline by up to

2:26:372:26:44

7.7% over 15 years of cumulative.

That was certainly no good news

2:26:442:26:50

anywhere in those impact statements

analysis. In the past couple of

2:26:502:26:57

months, I have had my own meetings

with representatives from some of

2:26:572:27:00

the most UK businesses, EU

businesses, including Airbus,

2:27:002:27:09

L'Oreal, and companies from the

pharmaceutical industries to name a

2:27:092:27:12

few. The concerns are always the

same. We need more clarity, and a

2:27:122:27:19

solid plan. If we are leaving, the

single market and customs Union, how

2:27:192:27:24

would this government ensure that

the mad Max reality that Brexit

2:27:242:27:31

secretary himself described will not

become reality. If it is not mad

2:27:312:27:35

Max, why is it any time

representatives from British

2:27:352:27:41

industry, politics, interact with

our European counterparts, in

2:27:412:27:45

Germany, France and elsewhere, we

are treated as if we live in Lala

2:27:452:27:49

land. When will this government face

the challenges of the unrealistic

2:27:492:27:55

standards of their own internal

party politics. That they have set

2:27:552:28:00

to serve their own infatuations of

an isolated Britain that has long

2:28:002:28:07

gone. When will this government tell

us the truth about the effects of

2:28:072:28:11

leaving a customs union and single

market, and offer a plan that at the

2:28:112:28:18

very least, does not feel like a

suicide mission. And that safeguards

2:28:182:28:23

the future of our businesses,

protecting environmental rights,

2:28:232:28:27

protecting workers' rights, our

services, our people, and our

2:28:272:28:31

communities.

Vicky Ford.

Thank you,

as her Deputy Speaker for asking me

2:28:312:28:40

to speak on this debate. The 27

other countries make up our largest

2:28:402:28:47

trading partners, many thousands of

jobs on both sides of the channel

2:28:472:28:50

rely on the trade. This is a very

sensitive time for our negotiations,

2:28:502:28:55

which are the most complex of our

generation. Businesses do need

2:28:552:29:00

clarity, especially on what will

happen at our borders, what are

2:29:002:29:04

long-term trade will look like,

especially 20th century sectors such

2:29:042:29:09

as pharmaceuticals, the service

sector, and thirdly, any clarity on

2:29:092:29:14

what transition or implementation

will look like. Honesty and

2:29:142:29:20

transparency is needed. Let us look

at the offer from the opposition.

2:29:202:29:25

They say they want to negotiate a

customs union with the EU, but the

2:29:252:29:29

Leader of the Opposition always

stood up in Coventry and said that

2:29:292:29:33

he wanted to negotiate exemptions in

relation to privatisation,

2:29:332:29:39

competition, and Mr Deputy Speaker,

the week after that negotiation, I

2:29:392:29:44

was in Brussels. There was not a

single country that has a customs

2:29:442:29:50

union with the EU that has an

extension state. Even Turkey has to

2:29:502:29:55

comply with all competition rules in

accordance with the EU Treaty and EU

2:29:552:30:00

law. When I was in Brussels, time

and time again, I ask politicians

2:30:002:30:05

from other EU countries if they

would get the UK preferred access to

2:30:052:30:08

the single market, a customs union

with the EU, but also allow us an

2:30:082:30:13

extension, and time and time again,

those politicians from other EU

2:30:132:30:18

countries looked at me and rolled

their eyes. The position of the

2:30:182:30:24

opposition is not honest, it is not

achievable, and I believe it is

2:30:242:30:28

deeply misleading. In trade

negotiations, the devil is in the

2:30:282:30:33

details. The Prime minister's speech

was very welcomed. It moved on a

2:30:332:30:42

huge amount of detail. Especially, I

welcomed the detail of the aviation

2:30:422:30:48

sector, the tech sector, and the

science and innovation packed. Boy,

2:30:482:30:52

do we need to continue innovation.

As well as security. I just want to

2:30:522:30:57

focus on three areas. Firstly, on

services. The UK sales data EU and

2:30:572:31:05

services is 40% of the EU trade, it

has grown as a percentage of our

2:31:052:31:10

trade in nearly every year.

Intraday's modern economy, you

2:31:102:31:15

cannot separate what is good from

what is a service. Mr Deputy

2:31:152:31:18

Speaker, I held up my mobile phone.

It feels like a good, but the

2:31:182:31:22

content on it are all services. If

you sell a cancer scanner today

2:31:222:31:27

across Europe, sell it without

manufacturing and maintenance

2:31:272:31:32

contract. It is a service. I am

about to buy a new car. It comes

2:31:322:31:37

with a financial lease arrangement.

It is a financial service. So,

2:31:372:31:42

walking away with no deal on

services is not a good deal. It is

2:31:422:31:46

especially not good on financial

services, about 2000 people in my

2:31:462:31:51

constituency that work insurance.

But there are hundreds of thousands

2:31:512:31:55

of German savers who have bought

life insurance products from British

2:31:552:32:01

life insurance companies. We do need

a deal on both sides that covers

2:32:012:32:04

services. On our borders and customs

union, we need to have an agreement

2:32:042:32:10

on what happens at her borders, but

there is much more to customs union

2:32:102:32:15

and customs negotiations than just

terrorists. -- tariffs. In

2:32:152:32:24

particular, the country of origin,

for complex manufactured products.

2:32:242:32:31

The British car sector employs about

169,000 people directly, and nearly

2:32:312:32:35

1 million if you add everyone

indirectly. Many of those cars

2:32:352:32:40

contain components from all over the

EU. Under the beauty of rules, those

2:32:402:32:46

cars are not your opinion and not to

be a European car, or British enough

2:32:462:32:50

to be a British car. They would

become orphan cars, if I can say

2:32:502:32:56

that. And not be eligible under any

of our trade agreements, we the EU

2:32:562:33:01

or elsewhere. That is why I think it

is particularly helpful that the

2:33:012:33:05

Prime Minister has left open the

negotiations, not just on a customs

2:33:052:33:10

agreement, but also on a customs

partnership, which is an offer for

2:33:102:33:15

us to mirror the EU customs codes at

our borders. My third point, if I

2:33:152:33:22

may, it's on transition, because

this is really important. The

2:33:222:33:25

transition period needs to be

agreed, and it needs to be agreed

2:33:252:33:29

now. Otherwise, there are real

issues. Not just for all those

2:33:292:33:32

people who live in the city, but

actually for goods, as well. On the

2:33:322:33:36

back of my mobile phone is a mark,

and every product which is placed in

2:33:362:33:40

the market in Europe has a mark.

Anything has been imported into the

2:33:402:33:46

UK has to have a marked put on it.

The market is with a 12 month

2:33:462:33:53

certificate. If you are importing

your mobile phone from elsewhere in

2:33:532:33:56

the world, into the UK, you need

someone who can issue a certificate

2:33:562:34:00

that takes you past not just the end

of this march, but the end of next

2:34:002:34:05

March. Unless we resolve transition

this month, what happens to Marks of

2:34:052:34:12

good place on the market, both here

and elsewhere in Europe, will not be

2:34:122:34:17

resolved, because there are not

enough notified bodies elsewhere in

2:34:172:34:21

Europe to take the place of the

British notified bodies today. May I

2:34:212:34:27

conclude by saying, thank you for

getting us to the negotiation point

2:34:272:34:32

today. Achieving the deal in

December, and the great move forward

2:34:322:34:36

in the detail from the Prime

Minister speech a couple of weeks

2:34:362:34:39

ago. Let's resolve this transition

period, by the end of this month, as

2:34:392:34:46

is absolutely crucial. Let's not

lose sight of the devil in the

2:34:462:34:49

details negotiations ahead. The

leader of the oppositions position

2:34:492:34:55

is not achievable, and we need to

focus on finding deals that are.

2:34:552:34:59

Thank you very much.

Christian

Matheson.

Nothing I have seen since

2:34:592:35:09

the referendum has convinced me to

lead EU is anything short of an act

2:35:092:35:14

of national lunacy. The case we have

seen on these problems with the

2:35:142:35:18

Irish border, or over the Government

or even to devote on trade and

2:35:182:35:24

customs, not currently being

considered by this House, just adds

2:35:242:35:27

further to that impression. Part of

the problem is the Prime minister's

2:35:272:35:30

in addition, to send a letter to

demand a hard Brexit, reminding her

2:35:302:35:37

that there are enough names to force

a Tory election. For me, that is

2:35:372:35:42

what this business has been about

from the start, with David Cameron

2:35:422:35:45

were agreed to a referendum because

he had failed to stand up to Ukip.

2:35:452:35:53

Then, and now, it was party before

country. Let me say, Mr Deputy

2:35:532:35:58

Speaker, I do not include all

honourable members opposite in that

2:35:582:36:03

assessment. I know many share my

concerns about rushed to a hard

2:36:032:36:08

Brexit, because they know the

catastrophic effect it would bring.

2:36:082:36:11

They must make a stand and not allow

their side of the House to be

2:36:112:36:14

dominated by the minority, currently

making all the running. And to those

2:36:142:36:19

who have the courage to do so, I pay

tribute. It was an interesting

2:36:192:36:22

notion that was floated by my

honourable friend to suggest there

2:36:222:36:27

needs to be a free vote on the final

bill. That was quite an intriguing

2:36:272:36:31

proposition.

2:36:312:36:41

Similarly in aerospace, needs

certainty over a customs union.

2:38:422:38:46

Lights come in and out of airports

several times a day carrying flights

2:38:462:38:52

to and from Hamburg and Toulouse

without simple customs arrangements

2:38:522:38:56

that brilliant, efficient multi-fat

-- multinational manufacturing

2:38:562:39:00

process would be impossible.

Aerospace companies also needs

2:39:002:39:06

certainty and quickly. Because of

times, we are the opposing the cliff

2:39:062:39:10

edge. I have heard members opposite

make the absurd suggestion that we

2:39:102:39:15

should simply align ourselves

regulatory processes but the United

2:39:152:39:19

States as a a which demonstrates

that those hard-line Brexiteers,

2:39:192:39:21

this is all about ideology and

lightning up with the right-wing

2:39:212:39:25

talk America rather than doing what

is right and best for the British

2:39:252:39:30

industry for British jobs and

skills. Mr Deputy Speaker, I want to

2:39:302:39:33

finish with a final point that was

touched upon by my right eye noble

2:39:332:39:37

friend regarding our relations with

Russia. I welcome the Prime

2:39:372:39:43

minister's stores today. On Russia.

We must be standing up to Putin's

2:39:432:39:48

bullying. We have to ask why Putin

is attacking the UK at this time. It

2:39:482:39:53

may be domestic reasons but he does

seem focused on the situation here.

2:39:532:40:02

He has already meddled in the euro

referendum, more details of which I

2:40:022:40:05

expect to emerge in the coming

months. But he knows that by

2:40:052:40:08

isolating ourselves and the EU from

our allies who share our values,

2:40:082:40:12

that we are weaker than we were. I

strongly support Nato and Britain's

2:40:122:40:18

active membership of that great

alliance but the EU is also an

2:40:182:40:22

alliance of security. And when it

comes to economic as opposed to God

2:40:222:40:26

for bid military conflict against an

aggressor we should be seeking the

2:40:262:40:28

support of our allies there and the

EU. Now is not the time to be

2:40:282:40:34

walking away and going it alone when

faced with Russia's threats. And I

2:40:342:40:36

hope that in quieter moments

honourable members might take time

2:40:362:40:41

to consider whether in light of

Putin's grade meddling in our

2:40:412:40:44

democracy, we need to reassess this

whole Brexit mass asked not

2:40:442:40:48

currently in the UK's national

interests. Putin's tactics are to

2:40:482:40:53

solve Chaos, proved out, discord,

confusion and disharmony. All of a

2:40:532:40:57

sudden, surely even the point of

Brexit extremists there is a greater

2:40:572:41:03

threat to the UK. In the west than

the European Union. I hope they wake

2:41:032:41:09

up to it.

My honourable friend I

thought made a very consider speech

2:41:092:41:14

earlier on. When you lay down in

detail the damage wrecks it would

2:41:142:41:21

do. I don't intend to go over that

ground. I want to talk specifically

2:41:212:41:23

about the Scottish government's

continuity bill. It is important

2:41:232:41:28

that the House understands precisely

what the Government were doing in

2:41:282:41:32

relation to Brexit. But before I do

it, I want to comment on two things

2:41:322:41:38

which were said earlier. Firstly by

the Member for Berkshire was no

2:41:382:41:42

longer in his place. He spoke about

the continuity bill in Scotland. It

2:41:422:41:49

is 140 or so amendments from the

Tories. I was a gently to the Tories

2:41:492:41:56

from Scotland that it would have

been better if as a block they had

2:41:562:41:59

signed up to amendments to the UK

with drawl bill as a block. Resident

2:41:592:42:05

tabling all these amendments to the

Scottish legislation. The second

2:42:052:42:10

part I would make to the honourable

gentleman rabbit in South, he spoke

2:42:102:42:14

about trade liberalization. I agreed

with him. At the moment we are

2:42:142:42:19

hearing an American company, the

Harley-Davidson motorcycle company,

2:42:192:42:22

tell us that Donald Trump's tariff

regime last £50 million to their

2:42:222:42:27

cost base. Gas will add £50 million

to their cost base. If they are

2:42:272:42:33

prepared to damage All-American

businesses, it is naive in the

2:42:332:42:36

extreme to assume there will be some

kind of a good deal cut for the UK.

2:42:362:42:42

I will take one intervention.

Very

grateful. I am glad he agrees about

2:42:422:42:48

trade liberalization. Actually EU is

the most protectionist organisation

2:42:482:42:54

there is. With high tariffs, all

imports coming into the EU and

2:42:542:42:58

actually will be that of off

therefore out of it so we can help

2:42:582:43:03

lead the world in liberalizing

trade.

I know that the Scottish

2:43:032:43:06

branch of the Tory party don't like

expert opinion. But the pre-Brexit

2:43:062:43:11

tracery weeks at a loss of up to 10%

of GDP. The post Brexit analysis

2:43:112:43:15

says an almost similar amount.

Scottish says it was a comparable

2:43:152:43:19

amount. We are faced with a

catastrophe. In every circumstance.

2:43:192:43:23

Not only if we go to WTO rules.

Better, I think, to fix the problem,

2:43:232:43:30

to maximise the trade, to try and

stay within the customs union, to

2:43:302:43:32

accept I think it makes sense the

free movement of people rather than

2:43:322:43:36

unicorns and rainbows, which is the

Brexit deals favourite slogan. Mr

2:43:362:43:43

Deputy Speaker, I wanted to talk

about the Scottish Government's

2:43:432:43:47

continuity bill. It is a bill which

prepares Scottish devolved a loss

2:43:472:43:51

for the UK's withdrawal from the

European Union. It means that the EU

2:43:512:43:54

loss will be retained after

withdrawal, and that the Scottish

2:43:542:44:00

Government will be given the tools

needed to make sure these laws keep

2:44:002:44:03

working after withdrawal. It is a

devolved version of the UK

2:44:032:44:08

government's EU withdrawal bill. But

I want the House to understand that

2:44:082:44:13

the Scottish Government have not

rejected out of hand the UK

2:44:132:44:16

government's proposals. Their

preferences are actually to rely on

2:44:162:44:22

the UK the EU withdrawal bill. At

the Scottish and Welsh government

2:44:222:44:26

continue to seek an agreement with

the UK which would allow the

2:44:262:44:29

necessary consent to be given. In

this scenario discusses government

2:44:292:44:32

seek to withdraw the continuity

bill. However the continuity bill

2:44:322:44:36

has to be introduced now, when it is

going to the Scottish Parliament

2:44:362:44:40

now. So that if legislative consent

is not given, Scotland's laws will

2:44:402:44:45

still continue to work properly. And

when one hears that exclamation, it

2:44:452:44:49

is a rather different explanation to

the Uber reunion is directing

2:44:492:44:54

version that we heard from the

honourable gentleman from earlier.

2:44:542:45:02

This is important because the UK

government's proposed way of

2:45:022:45:05

preparing for withdrawal, the EU

withdrawal bill, it requires a

2:45:052:45:11

consent of the Scottish Parliament

to become law. But right now neither

2:45:112:45:16

the Scottish Government nor the

Welsh government nor won a unanimous

2:45:162:45:22

cross party basis, the Scottish

Parliament financing Constitution

2:45:222:45:24

committee, currently agreed that

consent should be hidden. I think

2:45:242:45:30

that is extremely important. -- do

not agree that consent should be

2:45:302:45:34

given. The Bill allows UK government

to take control of the devolved

2:45:342:45:38

powers with the agreement of

Scottish bottling. That is why the

2:45:382:45:42

Scottish and Welsh governments have

called it a power grab. And the

2:45:422:45:45

financing Constitution committee, or

party, they have set it is

2:45:452:45:50

incompatible with the devolution

settlement in Scotland. The UK

2:45:502:45:55

government's proposed changes to the

EU withdrawal bill did not yet

2:45:552:45:58

addressed this. They would retain

the UK government's ability to

2:45:582:46:02

change the limits of devolution

without the agreement of the

2:46:022:46:05

Scottish Parliament. And that is

important. In that sense, the

2:46:052:46:12

Scottish government's measures

differ greatly from the UK

2:46:122:46:15

government bill. The Scottish

continuity bill gives the Scottish

2:46:152:46:20

Parliament its full role in the

preparation of Scotland's devolved

2:46:202:46:23

loss from EU withdrawal. It also

gives the Scottish Parliament and

2:46:232:46:27

enhanced role in scrutinising

proposals for changes to laws as a

2:46:272:46:32

result of withdrawal and it makes

for different policy choices,

2:46:322:46:35

including retaining and law of the

EU charger of fundamental rights. It

2:46:352:46:39

also contains the power to keep pace

with EU law for good reason. If we

2:46:392:46:44

are appropriate after the UK chooses

and leaves the EU. I will give way,

2:46:442:46:49

yes.

Whether he agrees with me that

the opposition amendments to the

2:46:492:46:56

Scottish government's withdrawal

bill which significantly watered

2:46:562:46:59

down the massive power grab attempt

by the Scottish Ministers in

2:46:592:47:02

relation to continuing alignment of

the EU multi-think the Scottish

2:47:022:47:06

Government wants for five years,

then five years, then five years.

2:47:062:47:08

Does he think that is welcome defeat

of the Scottish government to amend

2:47:082:47:12

that milk was yellow -- to amend

that Bill?

When Conservatives talk

2:47:122:47:20

about eight hours grab in Holyrood,

what that is called for is all power

2:47:202:47:25

is coming to Monday. I suspect that

he loves the Tories who would settle

2:47:252:47:28

for direct rule of Scotland and the

abolition of dismantling of

2:47:282:47:33

devolution completely. I am going to

not fall into the trap of the trick

2:47:332:47:39

question from the honourable

gentleman. If the question is why

2:47:392:47:44

are the Scottish government

introducing this legislation now,

2:47:442:47:47

the truth is that Scotland's laws

must simply be prepared for the day

2:47:472:47:51

the UK leaves the EU. If we did

nothing, laws such as agriculture or

2:47:512:47:59

food or agricultural support or

fruit standards, may fall away

2:47:592:48:01

entirely. Many of us will stop

working in the way they were

2:48:012:48:05

intended.

It would be disastrous.

And that is important.

Exactly, sir.

2:48:052:48:10

This has been said by my honourable

friends, no, I have given away twice

2:48:102:48:15

and there is no extra minutes. My

honourable friends have accepted

2:48:152:48:17

this earlier. That we accept on

principle there may be a need for UK

2:48:172:48:22

wide frameworks on some matters. And

it is true that the Scottish and UK

2:48:222:48:27

governments have been working with

the UK and Wales to investigate

2:48:272:48:30

those issues and explore how those

frameworks would work. But it is

2:48:302:48:37

vitally important to recognise and

respect the way devolution marks. If

2:48:372:48:40

it is not reserved, it is devolved.

If it were not falling to the remit

2:48:402:48:46

of the Scottish Parliament and its

company in Europe, then put it into

2:48:462:48:49

the devolved institutions now. And

should they require to be a UK wide

2:48:492:48:54

framework, a joint working, then let

the UK, the Scot is, the wealth and

2:48:542:49:00

indeed the Northern Irish assembly

negotiate that framework -- Welsh.

2:49:002:49:04

What we said we cannot have as a

power grab live the powers of the UK

2:49:042:49:08

government are taken back to London

and they didn't decide in a very

2:49:082:49:14

patronizing way what, if anything,

might be devolved in the future. It

2:49:142:49:21

is completely unacceptable and that

sense for the UK government to rip

2:49:212:49:27

up the devolved settlement, because

that in a sense is the consequence

2:49:272:49:29

of the power grab. For the 8th of

March, the UK government that they

2:49:292:49:35

have drawn up a new list of powers,

including ones they say are

2:49:352:49:39

reserved, that had not previously

been shared or discussed with the

2:49:392:49:42

Scottish or Welsh government. A year

down the line of these negotiations.

2:49:422:49:48

An EU list is drawn up. We have

agreed to that list should be

2:49:482:49:51

published for the sake of

transparency, but we certainly do

2:49:512:49:53

not agree to the list. I'm not going

to give way again. The Scottish

2:49:532:49:58

Government have been asked to sign

away the Scottish Parliament's

2:49:582:50:01

powers with no idea how UK wide

frameworks will work, how there will

2:50:012:50:07

be governed and how we will go from

them being temporary restrictions

2:50:072:50:12

that the UK government wants to

agreement green longer-term

2:50:122:50:14

solutions. And despite the UK

government's promise, it failed to

2:50:142:50:21

bring forward an amendment and the

House of Commons to the flawed

2:50:212:50:24

Clause 11 of the withdrawal bill,

those measures are going through the

2:50:242:50:27

Lords but of course that doesn't

allow proper debate and displays. --

2:50:272:50:30

those measures are going through the

Lords. A new amendment was still

2:50:302:50:35

allow though, the one which has been

proposed, the UK government to

2:50:352:50:38

restrict the Scottish Parliament of

my powers unilaterally through order

2:50:382:50:40

made in this place. It would be done

without requiring the consent of

2:50:402:50:45

either the Scottish Parliament or

the Scottish government. Mr Deputy

2:50:452:50:50

Speaker, if Brexit in itself is I

believe an unmitigated disaster...

2:50:502:50:55

Hear, hear!

The fermentation of this, because it

2:50:552:50:59

has not been thought through and

there was no plan, is a frightening

2:50:592:51:03

domain threatening devolution

entirely. There is a lack of

2:51:032:51:07

understanding and respect. It is not

reserved, it is devolved. So I would

2:51:072:51:11

say to the Minister, and returned to

the respect agenda that if it is not

2:51:112:51:18

deserved, devolved now, stop the

power grab and give him negotiations

2:51:182:51:24

probably with the devolved

administrations so that the UK

2:51:242:51:26

withdrawal bill that actually worked

without threatening the powers of

2:51:262:51:31

the other nations within the UK.

Hear, hear!

2:51:312:51:39

Thank you Mr Debbie Speaker. The

people voted to leave, as did the

2:51:392:51:44

majority of my own constituents. The

result was one on a narrow margin,

2:51:442:51:47

but the result was clear, which is

what I voted Article 50 full stop

2:51:472:51:54

however, when we triggered, I argued

a Brexit deal that reflected the

2:51:542:51:59

narrow margin, and could bring leave

and remain voters together. I argued

2:51:592:52:02

then as now, for an NEA based

Brexit. Which I will say a little

2:52:022:52:08

more later. Barely a year after that

referendum, the Prime Minister

2:52:082:52:12

called an election, which she hopes

to secure a mandate for hard Brexit.

2:52:122:52:16

The British people said no. The

Prime Minister saw her merit

2:52:162:52:21

majority disappear. Any sensible

government would at that point

2:52:212:52:24

except and commit itself to a

sensible Brexit. One that can bridge

2:52:242:52:27

the divide, one that accepts that

compromises must be made if we are

2:52:272:52:31

to secure a mutually beneficial deal

from this process. As Michel Barnier

2:52:312:52:37

famous escalator slide set, it was

of little lines but for a candidate

2:52:372:52:43

based free trade. But it Canada

based is about as much use a teapot.

2:52:432:52:51

It covers about 80% of the British

economy. It does nothing to resolve

2:52:512:52:55

our issues with the EU agencies,

which have no position whatsoever

2:52:552:52:59

for third country participation. A

Canada based deal leaves to a hard

2:52:592:53:07

order in Ireland. Now, I ensure the

Government toadies and extremists

2:53:072:53:11

and backbenchers are going to repeat

ad nausea him the prime minister's

2:53:112:53:17

line about bespoke, but to do so,

fundamentally misunderstands not

2:53:172:53:22

only this process, but that of all

trade negotiations. The fact that

2:53:222:53:25

all trade deals are a blend of

off-the-shelf and bespoke. The

2:53:252:53:30

Brexit negotiations are, first of

all, deciding on the foundations and

2:53:302:53:35

the foundations have to be based on

a basic template, whether it isn't

2:53:352:53:42

FDA or Association model. What you

have agreement on the foundations,

2:53:422:53:45

you can then move onto an argument

about the doors, the windows and the

2:53:452:53:50

roof of the House. It is clear that

the fundamental problem with the

2:53:502:53:54

Government approach to these

negotiations has been an inability

2:53:542:53:56

to accept that you must agree that

foundational model or template as

2:53:562:54:01

the basis for negotiations going

forward. I think it is absolutely

2:54:012:54:05

unforgivable that just over a week

from the EU agreeing to the

2:54:052:54:10

guidelines for future relationships

phase of our negotiations, the

2:54:102:54:12

Government is still talking about

all the things that perhaps it could

2:54:122:54:19

do, rather blue sky, vague,

inoffensive, so as not to alienate

2:54:192:54:23

any particular wing of the

conservative party. That is a

2:54:232:54:27

profound abdication of duty. And

responsibility on the part of the

2:54:272:54:30

Government. It has left a vacuum and

allowed the EU to define our destiny

2:54:302:54:34

for us. Ever since the referendum,

we have been on the back foot,

2:54:342:54:40

because the Government has utterly

failed to define the terms of the

2:54:402:54:43

debate. This leads us, I hope,

inexorably and ultimately to the

2:54:432:54:49

conclusion that we need an exit on

the basis of an EEA deal. And when a

2:54:492:54:57

customs union provision building on

the protocol ten president, or

2:54:572:55:02

seeking something deeper, can

provide that overarching framework

2:55:022:55:05

for deal that is not only

achievable, but one that is to both

2:55:052:55:09

leave and remain voters desirable.

What is more, a based Brexit could

2:55:092:55:16

navigate a path around the

Government's redlines. The EEA is

2:55:162:55:20

not the same as in single market,

and must not be conflated with it.

2:55:202:55:24

It the EEA is an internal market and

three of the four states. The EEA

2:55:242:55:34

excludes fisheries, and agriculture,

but the key point here is that the

2:55:342:55:37

EEA is predicated on a fundamental

different legal and political

2:55:372:55:41

purpose to that of a single market.

Whilst the EU single market

2:55:412:55:47

predicated on the European Union

with its aim of ever closer union,

2:55:472:55:51

they DEA internal market is based on

the EEA agreement. The purpose of

2:55:512:55:55

which is to, and I quote, promote a

continuous balance and strengthening

2:55:552:55:59

of trade and economic relations

between contracting parties. So the

2:55:592:56:05

fact is the EEA is a version to the

European Community based on the

2:56:052:56:10

terms of the single European act of

1986. Moreover, we have articles 112

2:56:102:56:17

and 113, which allow for the reform

of the any four freedoms, including

2:56:172:56:21

the free movement of people. This is

Artie been done. The protocol 15

2:56:212:56:27

president, and trying equitable is

system, in Liechtenstein, and would

2:56:272:56:31

have been available to the Swiss,

had they voted to join the EEA in

2:56:312:56:37

1992. It would be a leader at our

disposal, should we wish to join the

2:56:372:56:42

EEA. It needs another red line,

which is ending the jurisdiction,

2:56:422:56:47

the EEA is overseen by the

arbitration court, which would have

2:56:472:56:51

a plurality of UK judges. The court

regularly rules, and frequently sets

2:56:512:56:57

precedents that are later followed

by the EC J. In the EEA, this House

2:56:572:57:02

would be wholly sovereign. We would

see at and to direct effects, and

2:57:022:57:07

writer preservation, we would

possess a veto on EEA rules. Once

2:57:072:57:11

more, EEA have considerably shaping

powers. As well as retaining an

2:57:112:57:18

influence on the EEA position at the

WTO. Alongside possessing our own

2:57:182:57:23

seat at the table as the UK. I will

give way to yellow I think the

2:57:232:57:27

Member for giving way. He is making

a powerful case about the EEA and

2:57:272:57:31

FTA. I think this is unfortunate

describing the candidate deal as a

2:57:312:57:38

chocolate teapot. We do not give

free trade and chocolate.

Is meant

2:57:382:57:45

to be a quick intervention. You need

to explain,.

Thank you, Debbie

2:57:452:57:58

Speaker. In short, if you are

looking for a common-sense Brexit

2:57:582:58:02

that strikes a pragmatic balance

between prosperity and sovereignty,

2:58:022:58:07

then the EEA is the only game in

town. Maximum access to the single

2:58:072:58:14

market, with the ability to reform

free movement, resolve the Northern

2:58:142:58:17

Ireland issue and the jurisdiction

of the EC J, and above all, reunite

2:58:172:58:22

our deeply divided country. I look

away.

The problem with the EEA, is

2:58:222:58:26

you have to cut-and-paste all EEA

rules. Is it a bespoke deal a better

2:58:262:58:33

thing to fight for?

I think the

honourable Lady. As I said, what

2:58:332:58:40

this has to be is a blend of, a

template of a disk bespoke deal. You

2:58:402:58:49

must first of all, in these

negotiations, create common ground.

2:58:492:58:54

Territory based on models and

templates that are familiar to both

2:58:542:58:57

sides at the negotiating table. Of

course, things can be tweaked and

2:58:572:59:02

finesse, but the basic model of the

EEA gives us the architecture and

2:59:022:59:05

the certainty that the country so

desperately crying out for, it would

2:59:052:59:11

also put the British Government on

the front foot rather than leaving a

2:59:112:59:15

vacuum into which the EU has been

obliged to step. Mr Deputy Speaker,

2:59:152:59:22

the referendum exposed many of the

deep divisions that have existed in

2:59:222:59:25

our country for many years.

Divisions between young and old,

2:59:252:59:28

town and city, graduate and not

graduate, these came together as we

2:59:282:59:37

coalesced behind tribe remain or

tribe leave. We must not let the

2:59:372:59:43

tribalism define our destination. We

must come together. We must find a

2:59:432:59:47

way to reunite his country. Define

compromise between remain and the

2:59:472:59:51

leave. To place that compromise at

the heart of our negotiation

2:59:512:59:54

strategy. And in the EEA of death,

we have the answer. Protecting

2:59:543:00:04

marketing access, jobs and

opportunity. The answer to a fresh

3:00:043:00:09

and was border in Northern Ireland.

The answer to the call to take back

3:00:093:00:13

control on immigration in our courts

and in this House. So let us come

3:00:133:00:17

together, let us reunite Britain.

That is build an EEA based Brexit.

3:00:173:00:22

Thank you.

The first is the

potential impact of Brexit on the

3:00:223:00:32

northeast of England.

The Met major

of the car is manifested in the

3:00:323:00:41

Northeast are imported to the EU.

More than 30,000 jobs to the supply

3:00:413:00:46

chain. I have never been one to say

after Brexit, but I am concerned

3:00:463:00:53

about preacher investment in the

plant. The business energy and job

3:00:533:00:59

strategy select committee said in

their report on the impact of

3:00:593:01:04

Brexit, it is difficult to see how

it would make economic sense for

3:01:043:01:08

national volume manufacturers, the

bulk of the UK, or DiMaggio tariff

3:01:083:01:16

scenario. In single market would be

inevitable. The UK jobs could be in

3:01:163:01:26

the hundreds of thousands, and

investments in the hundreds of

3:01:263:01:30

millions of pounds. Another example

of why many of us on these pages

3:01:303:01:34

call in the UK to remain a member of

the single market and also the

3:01:343:01:38

customs union. The same report made

explicit that the UK cannot expect

3:01:383:01:43

an expansion of trade over sales

with the loss of trade to Europe

3:01:433:01:48

arising from a hard Brexit. It seems

senseless to me, to walk away from

3:01:483:01:51

one half of the trade without a

strategic means of replacement or

3:01:513:01:58

wishful thinking. The impact

assessments the Government tried to

3:01:583:02:01

keep to themselves reveal the

potential impact on the Northeast,

3:02:013:02:05

by identifying re-of the major

sectors to be hit, chemicals and

3:02:053:02:12

pharmaceuticals, all major

industries in the North East of

3:02:123:02:14

England. The impact assessments has

determined all the regions and

3:02:143:02:19

nations of the UK, the northeast of

England would be the worst hit. This

3:02:193:02:22

is due to the region's strong

manufacturing and industrial base,

3:02:223:02:26

which would be exposed most of the

changes and trade barriers and

3:02:263:02:30

because we have the greatest

dependence on export as a proportion

3:02:303:02:33

of the regional economy. The impact

assessments say the Northeast could

3:02:333:02:38

see a decline in its GDP by as much

as 16% over 15 years. We can talk

3:02:383:02:43

about a new customs arrangement,

frictionless borders as much as we

3:02:433:02:48

like, but all we end up doing is

reinventing the wheel, only to

3:02:483:02:52

discover it was not as round as the

original. It is no surprise that the

3:02:523:02:57

northeast of England Chamber of

Commerce into a statement, following

3:02:573:03:00

the spring statement. In which Ross

Smith said the forecast, he is the

3:03:003:03:09

director of policy, the second

sentence otherwise could render

3:03:093:03:15

these forecast largely irrelevant

and business still have little

3:03:153:03:18

detail to base their planning on.

This second issue I want to move

3:03:183:03:23

onto, is the other great strategic

importance as well. Not only to the

3:03:233:03:31

UK, but to Europe. Our response to

Russia's legacy of law. I do not

3:03:313:03:41

think we should doubt that Russia's

intent with Europe is to divide and

3:03:413:03:46

rule. Brexit lays straight into

their arms. It wants to see Europe

3:03:463:03:54

divided, but of whom under pressure.

It is always the result of the week.

3:03:543:04:06

The Russian state economically is

weak, the population is urging its

3:04:063:04:11

major strength,.

My collect on the

Northeast for giving way. I like to

3:04:113:04:20

point out that the Northeast voted

substantially for leave, they would

3:04:203:04:25

actually share his concerns about

manufacturing jobs and about

3:04:253:04:28

security.

I think my honourable,

right honourable friend and

3:04:283:04:34

neighbour, and I think she is right

there. It is a shifting opinion now,

3:04:343:04:39

this could damage your prospects for

tens of thousands of people in the

3:04:393:04:42

Northeast of England. To get back to

Russia, it does not, I do not think

3:04:423:04:51

he wants a kinetic action with Nato,

but he wants is weakened and

3:04:513:04:56

distracted. That is why Russia wants

to adopt this hybrid that could be

3:04:563:05:02

social, democratic welfare, trying

to influence -- influence democratic

3:05:023:05:08

elections. Is it any wonder that he

sees him as one of his favourite

3:05:083:05:19

leavers. I endorse the Prime

minister's actions today. The

3:05:193:05:22

Salisbury incident is more about

spies, the use of the chemical

3:05:223:05:27

weapon on the streets of the UK is

also an attack on the principles on

3:05:273:05:32

which we stand, and it must be

defended. The House must declare

3:05:323:05:36

which side they stand. This is about

defending our way of life, which is

3:05:363:05:41

internationally redacted by rules

based on we need to preserve and

3:05:413:05:44

which to seek under nine. From the

boosting of its announced nuclear

3:05:443:05:53

capabilities, to a failing economy

run by oligarchs. Spreading news of

3:05:533:06:02

the dubious nature throughout Europe

and the US. What Russia is trying to

3:06:023:06:05

do is shake our confidence in our

way of life. Engage everywhere, yes.

3:06:053:06:10

But to give them the benefit of the

doubt, I think it's ridiculous. To

3:06:103:06:15

undermine liberal democracy in the

West, a special relationship with

3:06:153:06:20

the US, Nato and the UN, with the

EU, a bilateral which have served us

3:06:203:06:26

well for decades. Our leaving the

EU, and I just want to say this,

3:06:263:06:31

health Putin. McAfee has always

resented what he sees as the living

3:06:313:06:38

of Russia after the collapse of the

Soviet Union. He wants to return to

3:06:383:06:41

a world where Russia held call the

shots which you cannot do now. The

3:06:413:06:44

next best thing is to weaken those

who are sitting at the table. The

3:06:443:06:48

interfere in the US election, the

independence movement, that welcome

3:06:483:06:55

extreme sense of hungry's Prime

Minister, and of

3:06:553:07:03

Putin believes it is integrated at

the Berlin wall came down. Now he

3:07:043:07:07

will play any card or role and he

dies to ensure that happens.

3:07:073:07:11

Eventually the UK will not have a

seat at the table of the EU. That is

3:07:113:07:20

good for putative. Of course it will

continue to engage with the EU, but

3:07:203:07:25

it is better to have that seat at

that table, rather than not. Don't

3:07:253:07:31

let us forget Nato is a military

alliance, and is the EU that has the

3:07:313:07:36

ability to impose sanctions against

Russia, not Nato. Can I say I agree

3:07:363:07:40

with the findings of the foreign

affairs Select Committee global

3:07:403:07:43

Britain, the Prime Minister needs to

come to this House to with a global

3:07:433:07:48

Britain actually means. Now is the

time to defend ourselves as a

3:07:483:07:51

country, unfortunately. And after a

rallying cry for what we actually

3:07:513:07:56

believe in as a country. We may have

created a difficulty, but our staff

3:07:563:08:04

today is ownership, because the

whole argument comes down to values.

3:08:043:08:06

I say to myself as a labour man who

in the ... Is prepared to make

3:08:063:08:17

difficult decisions. I think today's

the time to make those decisions. I

3:08:173:08:20

believe in Britain as a force for

good in the world. We and these

3:08:203:08:25

House and all sites need to stand

for the principles that underpin our

3:08:253:08:27

way of life, which is democracy,

human rights. These have been the

3:08:273:08:32

foundations of the West for decades.

We need not to stand against those

3:08:323:08:36

forces at home and abroad which

seemed Na seek to undermine those

3:08:363:08:39

principles.

Hear, hear!

Figure, Mr Speaker. My honourable

3:08:393:08:43

friend earlier on gave a very

compelling exposition of what we

3:08:433:08:49

already have within the single

market and the customs union, the

3:08:493:08:54

benefits that we enjoy. And also

what we stand to lose from being

3:08:543:08:58

outside of that. And again, I urge

the UK government to engage in

3:08:583:09:06

genuine engagement, not token

engagement with the default

3:09:063:09:10

administrations. My honourable

friend from Dundee East pointed out

3:09:103:09:15

why it is absolutely vital that the

Scottish Parliament brings her a

3:09:153:09:18

continuity bill in order to protect

the laws of Scotland. He also

3:09:183:09:23

highlighted the naivety over trade

with the US. This hope that rainbows

3:09:233:09:29

and unicorns, as the honourable

member for the City of Chester said

3:09:293:09:34

earlier on, and a can as I will do

urge the UK government to engage

3:09:343:09:39

meaningfully with the devolved

administrations. It is something

3:09:393:09:44

that can still be done, even at this

late date. But I think everybody is

3:09:443:09:48

getting a bit frustrated by the idea

that there was going to be a bespoke

3:09:483:09:53

agreement that is going to be

magically produced here. There is a

3:09:533:09:57

hit it and hope attitude from the

front bench on the Government.

3:09:573:10:01

Completely ignoring the realities of

the modern world. The UK government

3:10:013:10:04

tells us that it is all going to be

well and we're supposed to take it

3:10:043:10:08

on trust that that is the case. Yet

through this entire process to date,

3:10:083:10:12

they have sought to exclude

prominent. They have had to be

3:10:123:10:15

forced to share impact assessments.

The have not listened to and

3:10:153:10:22

respected devolved governments. And

in this place we still don't have

3:10:223:10:24

answers. Not even about the process.

Never mind what the impact will be.

3:10:243:10:29

As the honourable member for for

Greenwich and mentioned earlier that

3:10:293:10:35

will be a vote. Ben Foden itself is

a bit like Brexit. It is shrouded in

3:10:353:10:40

confusion -- that called itself is

that they like Brexit. I much

3:10:403:10:43

Armistead want to be between the

location of the final agreements and

3:10:433:10:46

the votes in this place? Asked how

much time is like to be between?

3:10:463:10:52

Nobody knows. How long would there

be between the vote and the exit

3:10:523:10:56

date? Nobody knows. What additional

documentation will be published by

3:10:563:11:01

the governments that accompany the

agreement and the declaration?

3:11:013:11:03

Nobody knows. There are lines and

lines and lines of things that to

3:11:033:11:09

date nobody knows about this

process. It is yet another record...

3:11:093:11:16

We don't have answers to these

questions on Parliament to process,

3:11:163:11:21

never mind the answers to the key

questions being asked by business

3:11:213:11:23

and my constituents. That is why the

Scottish Government has brought

3:11:233:11:28

forward the continuity bill. That is

why everyone in the Scottish

3:11:283:11:33

Parliament, apart from the Tories,

understands the need for that. It

3:11:333:11:40

retains in domestic law of the EU

law currently operating in devolved

3:11:403:11:43

areas. Mr Speaker, they can jump

from the benches but what is clear

3:11:433:11:49

is that they are not standing up for

Scotland.

Hear, hear!

3:11:493:11:53

The continuity bill gives Scottish

Ministers the powers needed to

3:11:533:11:56

ensure the default block continues

to operate effectively after the UK

3:11:563:11:59

withdrawal. That is a very important

point given the range of powers that

3:11:593:12:08

have so far not been agreed to be

devolved directly. These powers

3:12:083:12:13

should go straight back to the

Scottish Parliament. Even today,

3:12:133:12:16

there has been an other full by

Ipsos to show that the Scottish

3:12:163:12:22

people are absolutely unconvinced by

the UK government's possession. One

3:12:223:12:26

in eight people think, installing,

it would damage the economy. Only

3:12:263:12:31

one in seven think that there is

going to be any kind of benefit from

3:12:313:12:36

it. What do we know about economy

and trade? We know that the analysis

3:12:363:12:39

for the financial Times that my

honourable friend from North East

3:12:393:12:44

Fife pointed to earlier suggested

that Brexit is already crossing the

3:12:443:12:48

economy £18 billion a year, or £350

million per week as my honourable

3:12:483:12:53

friend pointed out. That is not

money on the side of our bus, that

3:12:533:12:56

is money thrown under a bus. Just

lost to us completely.

Hear, hear!

3:12:563:13:01

No wonder Scotland economics

estimate that Brexit has our recalls

3:13:013:13:05

the average household £404 a year as

a result of the falling sterling and

3:13:053:13:09

higher inflation since the vote. The

UK government's only impact

3:13:093:13:13

assessment confirms that under also

an area of the UK is going to be

3:13:133:13:17

worse off after leaving the EU.

Additionally, the analysis also

3:13:173:13:23

shows that UK could be forced to

borrow 100 Dundee billion pounds

3:13:233:13:26

more after Brexit he claimed 2019

and 2033 -- £120 billion. Leaving

3:13:263:13:34

the EU customs union and single

market would be disastrous for

3:13:343:13:38

Scotland's trading position. It

would create barriers to trade such

3:13:383:13:42

as EU tariffs, customs checks, rules

of origin and divergent regulatory

3:13:423:13:45

regimes. It could also impede

Scottish trade with the rest of the

3:13:453:13:50

world as we stand to lose the

benefit of 36 EU free trade

3:13:503:13:54

agreements covering 53 markets. When

UK government talks about trading

3:13:543:14:00

with other nations outside the EU,

they should remember those very

3:14:003:14:04

agreements have been facilitated by

being within the EU. There are many

3:14:043:14:10

benefits to lose. What we do know

for the food and drink sector in

3:14:103:14:14

Scotland, that a hard Brexit risks

access to Scotland's biggest

3:14:143:14:18

overseas original food and drink

export market. It risks Scottish

3:14:183:14:22

competitiveness and increased cost

for business. It risks the value and

3:14:223:14:26

reputation of Scottish produce a

substantially risks food production

3:14:263:14:30

through the loss of a workforce. We

know also that there is no trade

3:14:303:14:37

without transport. What we also know

about transport is maintaining and

3:14:373:14:42

improving physical access to

European countries and allowing

3:14:423:14:45

transport operators and service

providers registered in the UK to

3:14:453:14:49

operate across the EU and vice versa

remains a vital component of trade.

3:14:493:14:56

Minimising administrative

arrangements for crossing borders,

3:14:563:15:00

for international trade and

logistics is absolutely vital. As is

3:15:003:15:04

access to labour. Crucial for our

transport network. If I had more

3:15:043:15:08

time I would spend time on what is

going to happen to rule Scotland

3:15:083:15:13

without a meaningful deal. What is

going to happen to the energy

3:15:133:15:15

market. But I want to finish, Mr

Speaker, by saying that so far we

3:15:153:15:20

don't know what is going to happen

about Parliament rule. We know the

3:15:203:15:25

continuity bill is a much needed

piece of legislation to protect the

3:15:253:15:29

interests of the Scottish people and

is devolution settlement. We know

3:15:293:15:32

that the protections business seat

and questions they still have will

3:15:323:15:36

remain unanswered by the UK

government. We know the impact and

3:15:363:15:40

concerns for our economy and trade.

Similarly we know the impacts and

3:15:403:15:43

concerns for the food and drink

sector, health and social care for

3:15:433:15:49

transport, for rule Scotland and for

our energy market and tourism among

3:15:493:15:52

much more. So what we now need from

the Government isn't more rhetoric

3:15:523:15:58

about scaremongering. These are

genuine, real concerns and we need

3:15:583:16:02

answers. So I ask this, will the

Minster answer the questions about

3:16:023:16:07

the Parliamentary process so that we

can do our job of representing our

3:16:073:16:11

constituents and making sure that

there is a transparent and open

3:16:113:16:14

process? Will he recognise that the

Scottish Government are being asked

3:16:143:16:19

to sign away the Scottish

Parliament's powers with no idea of

3:16:193:16:21

how UK wide frameworks will work,

how they will be covered and how we

3:16:213:16:25

will go from the temporary

restrictions the UK government wants

3:16:253:16:30

him to the green longer-term

solutions? And in doing so, will he

3:16:303:16:32

accept that this is not a

constructive way to engage with the

3:16:323:16:36

devolved governments?

Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker, Saturday Saint Patrick's

3:16:363:16:42

Day. Although we don't know where

Saint Patrick is actually really

3:16:423:16:46

from, we know that he wasn't Irish.

His capture by slaves and the tires

3:16:463:16:51

that broke the Irish Sea at the

time, he wasn't entirely welcome

3:16:513:16:54

when he returned as a free man.

Although he might find himself quite

3:16:543:16:57

popular attitudes and him on

Saturday. Recently the Bristol post

3:16:573:17:03

published an article about the

Bristol merchants who under Henry

3:17:033:17:09

the second in 1171 went to Dublin to

defend Dublin castle in Ireland. And

3:17:093:17:18

established as an award from that

from Henry the second, trading

3:17:183:17:21

posts. There is still some debate as

to whether via arrangements whereby

3:17:213:17:26

the Citizens, the merchants of

Bristol still applies or whether it

3:17:263:17:29

has been overridden by the 1937

Constitution, something I still

3:17:293:17:34

intend to discuss with the Irish

government. I'm going to skip

3:17:343:17:39

through for time. The centuries that

lie in between then and now, whereby

3:17:393:17:43

people have flowed between these

islands. Mostly in times of

3:17:433:17:47

conflict, often in times of great

poverty and desperation. Looking for

3:17:473:17:52

work, trying to settle amongst

different parts of this island. 100

3:17:523:17:55

years ago, we were the same country.

My grandparents born under the

3:17:553:17:59

auspices of this Parliament, joining

John Redmond's Army and the British

3:17:593:18:05

Army in the First World War.

Upstairs this week, we have had an

3:18:053:18:12

exhibition of pictures that again

depicted the flowing of migrant

3:18:123:18:15

labour after the Second World War.

And last week upstairs and one of

3:18:153:18:20

the committee rooms we had the most

amazing discussion and presentation

3:18:203:18:25

by former Taoiseach John Bruton

about John Redmond and the battles

3:18:253:18:31

that were raised in this House. That

was at the invitation of the right

3:18:313:18:39

honourable member of Saint Helen's,

it was a truly magnificent meeting.

3:18:393:18:43

London this weekend will have three

days of celebration for Saint

3:18:433:18:46

Patrick's Day. When I was a child

growing up in London this was a far

3:18:463:18:49

cry from my experience. We had very

small parades hidden away on a

3:18:493:18:52

Sunday morning, viewed with rates as

they heavily policed. It was a

3:18:523:18:58

welcome parade on the streets of

London. My first experience across

3:18:583:19:01

the Irish border was in 1985. I was

only 21 years of age. It was a

3:19:013:19:07

shocking experience for me at that

time. It was a horrendous experience

3:19:073:19:10

which I won't go into now. But over

the next 30 years I have witnessed

3:19:103:19:15

the most phenomenal transformation.

Of that experience. And I would urge

3:19:153:19:21

that the Secretary of State and the

Prime Minister to try and visit

3:19:213:19:27

parts of that border now, to try and

understand exactly what is at stake.

3:19:273:19:30

Because they could Friday Belfast

agreement was not just about

3:19:303:19:35

Northern Ireland and it wasn't just

about Ireland, it was not about a

3:19:353:19:37

border. It is about the freedom of

movement across people of these

3:19:373:19:41

islands and the deep, deep roots

that they have. It is also greatly

3:19:413:19:46

important to the Irish community

that are settled here, who had seen

3:19:463:19:51

the experience of being Irish in

this country transformed over the

3:19:513:19:54

last 30 years. The normalisation of

relations was hard fought for and we

3:19:543:20:00

need to preserve it. For the first

time we have an international treaty

3:20:003:20:03

between our countries based on

mutual respect and on shared

3:20:033:20:06

interests after those centuries of

conflict. It is an exemplar across

3:20:063:20:10

the world. The House of Lords voted

on the border was that there was a

3:20:103:20:16

distinction between identifying

solutions that are theoretically

3:20:163:20:18

possible and applying them to a few

hundred mile border with hundreds of

3:20:183:20:22

formal and informal crossings, and

the existence of what is politically

3:20:223:20:24

divisive. And physical

infrastructure at the border would

3:20:243:20:29

be politically contentious and in

the view of PPS and I, police and

3:20:293:20:33

security forces, a security risk.

The December agreement talked about

3:20:333:20:39

in paragraph 47, a mapping exercise.

I have asked this question in this

3:20:393:20:43

place before. I have written to the

Prime Minister. If we can please

3:20:433:20:46

have published that mapping

exercise. We need to into the facade

3:20:463:20:53

that there really can be any kind of

different customs and alignment

3:20:533:20:57

ratings across these islands, or any

unilateral change to the current

3:20:573:21:00

provisions. From Saint Patrick and

the Bristol merchants wanderings to

3:21:003:21:05

be billions of pounds and movements

that are traded across these

3:21:053:21:08

islands, it is the great people of

these islands that expect to be able

3:21:083:21:13

to move and trade freely, and any

dilution of that will not be

3:21:133:21:16

acceptable to any of us.

Hear, hear!

3:21:163:21:24

Thank you Mr Speaker. It is a

pleasure to follow that speech, and

3:21:243:21:28

I was glad I was cheered to hear it.

I'll just say before I began, best

3:21:283:21:32

wishes from the member from

Worcester, who is about to embark

3:21:323:21:35

upon the most challenging and

rewarding experience of his life. It

3:21:353:21:40

is not Brexit, he is due to have a

baby on Friday, I believe. Our

3:21:403:21:44

thoughts of all of us are with him.

Mr Speaker, this has been an

3:21:443:21:50

interesting afternoon of speeches,

not so much debate as a collection

3:21:503:21:54

of thoughts, from MPs and all

matters Brexit related, and

3:21:543:21:58

excellent though the conjugations

have been, it seems to me what we

3:21:583:22:02

had just taken part in is what is

known as displacement activity. That

3:22:023:22:07

is the Parliamentary equivalent of

scratching 1's head when confused.

3:22:073:22:11

Why is there no vote? No opportunity

to express Parliament's views today?

3:22:113:22:19

Because the Government is afraid of

its Parliament and of its own party.

3:22:193:22:22

I have served in Parliament now

opposite free governments, and none

3:22:223:22:26

of them has been any good, but none

has lacked confidence like this one.

3:22:263:22:32

As the member from Chester said, we

have a Tory party utterly riveted in

3:22:323:22:36

government by the task that will

define it was out how we lead the

3:22:363:22:40

European Union. It is the single

most important question this

3:22:403:22:43

generation of MPs has ever likely to

face. The Government has to be

3:22:433:22:49

forced to give us a meaningful vote

on it. There is one issue that

3:22:493:22:54

exposes the miserable inadequacy of

the Government's leadership more

3:22:543:22:59

than anything else, and that is the

Irish border. The Government has no

3:22:593:23:04

clue how to ensure a frictionless

open border in Ireland. It is an

3:23:043:23:09

outrage that our prime Minister says

that she is looking at the example

3:23:093:23:13

of the border between the United

States and Canada. That is one of

3:23:133:23:16

the worst examples I can think of,

so can the Minister confirm that the

3:23:163:23:22

Prime Minister has finished looking

at that particular example and has

3:23:223:23:25

ruled out. I do hope so. When was

the Secretary of State for the

3:23:253:23:32

European union visit the Irish

border? I understand he has never

3:23:323:23:34

been. This is unacceptable. The

honourable member from Bristol

3:23:343:23:39

South, with her excellent knowledge

of all things Irish, I would be

3:23:393:23:44

happy to take him, following her

outstanding speech, I am sure. She

3:23:443:23:48

is nodding. The hard Brexiteers have

no suggestions on how to solve this

3:23:483:23:53

issue, only redlines and outrage of

epic proportions directed at anyone

3:23:533:23:57

who dares to suggest a sensible way

forward. Where is the Government's

3:23:573:24:01

legal text of the phase one

agreement? The EU published theirs

3:24:013:24:08

on the 25th of February. Where is

Iris? The Labour Party thinks we

3:24:083:24:12

should remain, and there is wide

support for this in industry,

3:24:123:24:18

particularly in manufacturing. It

was safeguard jobs, help resolve the

3:24:183:24:21

Irish border, and give certainty,

but the Government has rejected this

3:24:213:24:28

position, it is buffeted by hot air

from his backbenchers, not because

3:24:283:24:33

it is putting the interest of the

country first. The Government should

3:24:333:24:35

also listen, when she talks of the

importance of services and nine

3:24:353:24:42

tariff barriers. When the former top

civil service or trade, says we are

3:24:423:24:50

rejecting a three course meal for a

packet of crisps. He has a point.

3:24:503:24:53

But rather than brigade in Beit, --

engage in debate, we are just over a

3:24:533:25:04

year to exit and the Government has

so little to say on important

3:25:043:25:07

issues. Precisely, which areas does

the Government wants to divert on

3:25:073:25:13

and deregulate? What does the

Government intend that transitional

3:25:133:25:17

period will look like? Will be easy

J have jurisdiction and on what? How

3:25:173:25:23

would the Government ensure an open

border in Ireland, without a customs

3:25:233:25:27

union? Where is the Immigration

Bill? Why is it delayed? When will

3:25:273:25:32

the trade and customs bills return

to this House? As the member from

3:25:323:25:36

Preston said, the Government is

afraid of this House, because it

3:25:363:25:40

knows there is a majority in this

House for a customs union. Labour

3:25:403:25:46

would have a much clearer approach.

We respect the referendum result and

3:25:463:25:51

accept that Britain is leading the

European Union. My constituency,

3:25:513:25:57

like the member from Sedgefield,

voted to leave, so we understand

3:25:573:26:01

that our constituents voted to leave

the EU, not to be poorer or less

3:26:013:26:06

safe. Remaining in a customs union

makes people safe and they know that

3:26:063:26:11

we are putting their jobs first.

They understand why the Labour Party

3:26:113:26:16

is taking the position that it does.

Unlike some others, we want to a

3:26:163:26:22

close future relationship with the

EU, based on our values of

3:26:223:26:27

internationalism, solidarity and

equality. Maintaining rights,

3:26:273:26:30

standards and protections. We would

seek a deal that gives full access

3:26:303:26:34

to European markets and maintains

the benefits of the single market,

3:26:343:26:37

and a customs union, holding the

Government to what the Brexit

3:26:373:26:41

secretary promised in the House of

Commons, with no impediments that

3:26:413:26:44

are new to trade. We would negotiate

a new UK, EU union, so there are no

3:26:443:26:52

tariffs with Europe, and a hard

order in Ireland. I would seek to

3:26:523:26:58

negotiate a say on any new EU trade

deal terms, labour does not believe

3:26:583:27:03

that deals with the USA or China

both of which have weaker standards

3:27:033:27:08

and regulations, would be likely to

compensate for a significant loss of

3:27:083:27:12

trade with our trading neighbours in

the EU. Nor do we believe that being

3:27:123:27:19

part of the customs union with the

EU prevents us trading extensively

3:27:193:27:25

with nine EU countries. Germany's

largest trading partner is China. As

3:27:253:27:32

they said, the idea that being in a

customs union Princess trading

3:27:323:27:37

globally is a nonsense. We will

never accept our NHS or other public

3:27:373:27:43

services being part of any trade

deal with comp's America. As the

3:27:433:27:49

member from Stratham said, just look

at what he intends for our steel

3:27:493:27:52

industry. As a member from Cardiff

North, labour believes the devolved

3:27:523:27:58

policy areas exercised by the EU

should go directly to the relevant

3:27:583:28:04

devolved body, unless the UK

government can make a compelling

3:28:043:28:08

case, for that power to be held at

Westminster. In all these areas, the

3:28:083:28:14

Labour Party has out an approach

that is pragmatic, respects the

3:28:143:28:21

referendum results, and pushed its

national interest first. How long

3:28:213:28:25

until the Government does the same?

As the member from... Said, how long

3:28:253:28:31

until the Government works to

reunite the country? How many days

3:28:313:28:35

of general debate does this

government think we are going to

3:28:353:28:38

need before it dares to present

Parliament with an actual decision.

3:28:383:28:43

The Government has limped along for

long enough. It is tied it stopped

3:28:433:28:47

listening to noisy bluster, pulled

itself together, and secured a good

3:28:473:28:52

deal for Britain.

Wayne Walker to

reply.

Thank you for her kind words.

3:28:523:29:02

As Mike honourable friend from

Chelsea, said in his opening

3:29:023:29:06

remarks, it is a time for debate. We

are approaching a crucial moment. We

3:29:063:29:13

are ambitious about what can be

achieved, as the Prime Minister set

3:29:133:29:17

out in her speech. The UK is seeking

the broadest and deepest possible

3:29:173:29:21

agreement. We are making real

progress. At the end of last year,

3:29:213:29:25

we agreed on key elements, and are

in the process of turning that into

3:29:253:29:28

a draft. This is Longwell and the

last weeks. Code defining the draft

3:29:283:29:36

report on citizens rights,

negotiations are progressing

3:29:363:29:37

positively. Northern Ireland, which

the honourable Lady spoke of so

3:29:373:29:44

well, there remained steadfast to

the Belfast agreement, including a

3:29:443:29:47

hard border between Ireland and

Northern Ireland. Also, a commitment

3:29:473:29:53

to avoiding all borders in United

Kingdom. We are working intensively

3:29:533:29:57

to achieve our immediate goal of an

implementation period by the March

3:29:573:30:02

European Council, but the EK and the

EU have published text on their

3:30:023:30:07

withdrawal agreement, and there is

significant common ground. But there

3:30:073:30:10

remain some issues to be discussed

further. We put forward practical

3:30:103:30:14

solutions which will help to have a

smooth exit which will protect EK --

3:30:143:30:19

UK and EU. Including in relation to

any new EU laws. We look forward to

3:30:193:30:28

continuing discussions with the EU

and remain confident we will reach

3:30:283:30:32

an agreement by March European

Council by next week. As my

3:30:323:30:34

honourable friend pointed out, that

is absolutely vital. Over the coming

3:30:343:30:41

weeks and months, the UK and the EU

will continue to push ahead in all

3:30:413:30:44

areas with the aim of reaching a

complete withdrawal agreement in

3:30:443:30:47

October. The Prime Minister has a

set out an ambitious vision, the UK

3:30:473:30:54

is seeking with the EU. We are

seeking a deepest agreement which

3:30:543:30:58

establishes greater cooperation and

any pre-existing trade agreement.

3:30:583:31:04

The EU has a long track record of

such the spoke agreements with key

3:31:043:31:09

partners. Our proposals include

specific proposals across our

3:31:093:31:14

economy include good Psalmist says,

and fisheries, and I can assure my

3:31:143:31:18

honourable friend, that we will be

leading the common fisheries policy

3:31:183:31:25

when we leave the EU. There are five

foundations that must underpin our

3:31:253:31:31

future trading agreements.

Reciprocal agreement, for fair

3:31:313:31:35

competition. Independent arbitration

mechanism. An ongoing dialogue with

3:31:353:31:39

the EU, especially between

regulators. An arrangement for data

3:31:393:31:43

protection, that goes beyond the

adequacy agreement. Appoint my

3:31:433:31:47

honourable friend made the case for

extremely well. And finally, but

3:31:473:31:51

inwardly, maintaining links between

our people. A fundamental principle

3:31:513:31:56

in our negotiation strategy for

goods is portrayed the EU, UK

3:31:563:32:00

border. We are seeking a

comprehensive plan to assure we need

3:32:003:32:07

to go one series of rubles in one

country. This can be achieved, to

3:32:073:32:12

ensure the predatory standards

remain as high at the EU, which, in

3:32:123:32:16

practise, means the standards will

remain substantially similar in the

3:32:163:32:19

future. Our default is for UK law

may not be necessarily identical,

3:32:193:32:24

but should achieve the same outcome.

In some cases, Parliament could

3:32:243:32:29

choose to pass an identical law. The

Parliament could also decide not to

3:32:293:32:34

achieve the same outcome, but it

would do so knowing there will be

3:32:343:32:38

consequences for market access. As I

set out, at the launch of their

3:32:383:32:41

consumer charter, it has always

played a key role, and we'll

3:32:413:32:46

continue to do so as we leave the

EU. On services, where my honourable

3:32:463:32:52

friend made such a powerful case

about the importance of trade in

3:32:523:32:55

services, we want an agreement that

is broader than any agreement

3:32:553:32:58

before. We do not want to

discriminate against EU service

3:32:583:33:01

providers in the UK, and we would

not want the EU to discriminate

3:33:013:33:05

against the UK. That would mean a

lemonade any new barriers, and

3:33:053:33:11

agreeing on a mobility framework,

that enables firms and self-employed

3:33:113:33:16

professionals to provide

across-the-board services. Either

3:33:163:33:18

face-to-face, the phone or Internet.

We would want to continue to

3:33:183:33:23

recognise qualifications of each

other's professions. As my

3:33:233:33:26

honourable friend from East River

toured spoke, I can assure him that

3:33:263:33:34

the Prime Minister of the Chancellor

in the recent speeches, and I agree,

3:33:343:33:38

with the importance of reaching an

arrangement in this sector. After we

3:33:383:33:41

have left the EU, the UK will push

for the greater liberalization of

3:33:413:33:45

the greater services market,

represents around 20% of the value

3:33:453:33:50

of world trade, but accounted for

45% of the value of UK exports in

3:33:503:33:55

2016. Services are important, of a

growing supply chain, while digital

3:33:553:34:00

technology is continuing to make

more and more services. The Prime

3:34:003:34:03

Minister accepted in her house

speech, and the chair of the select

3:34:033:34:12

committee as Frank, in certain ways,

access to each other's market will

3:34:123:34:15

be less than is now. We understand

you cannot have all the benefits of

3:34:153:34:18

the civil without obligations.

Without all its obligations. We seek

3:34:183:34:23

a new balance of those benefits. And

obligations. As the Prime Minister

3:34:233:34:27

has made clear, will be leaving the

customs union. It has the extendable

3:34:273:34:32

external border, which sends out

identical tariffs will stop trade

3:34:323:34:37

policy is excluded as -- exclusive

competence. Our own independent

3:34:373:34:43

trade policy. The honourable member

for Brent North, described it as

3:34:433:34:49

deeply unattractive. Also explained,

it would be a disaster. It leaving

3:34:493:34:58

the EU customs union and

establishing a new arrangement, we

3:34:583:35:01

will be able to set up our own

individual tariff arrangement, with

3:35:013:35:06

our partners around the world. I did

want to touch very briefly on the

3:35:063:35:09

issue of security, which the right

honourable gentleman and many others

3:35:093:35:14

raised. We seek a deep in and

comprehensive, our commitments to EU

3:35:143:35:22

security should be non-negotiable,

but as the Prime Minister said, in

3:35:223:35:25

her speech, the job now is to get on

with it and deliver the best outcome

3:35:253:35:29

for the UK exit from the European

Union. That is what we are

3:35:293:35:33

determined to do.

I beg to move that

the debate now be adjourned.

The

3:35:333:35:47

ayes have it. Bring it is now

adjourned. Patricia Gibson.

Thank

3:35:473:35:57

you, Mr Speaker. I am delighted to

have secured this debate will stop I

3:35:573:36:01

really wish it was not necessary. I

apologise for the crabby sound of my

3:36:013:36:08

voice as I struggle through this

speech.

3:36:083:36:16

I have been tabling for this debate

in November when the closers of RBS

3:36:163:36:19

plans in my constituency were first

announced. I have had the misfortune

3:36:193:36:26

to have secured... I'm losing my

voice. So you can make of that what

3:36:263:36:32

you will. Since November, I have

spoken in three debates to in bank

3:36:323:36:40

closures. Several letters to the

chief executive of RBS and half

3:36:403:36:45

raised the matter with the Scottish

affairs committee chair with just

3:36:453:36:50

him and the chief executive of RBS.

Hear, hear!

3:36:503:36:52

.

I have also held street stalls

with SMB local councils and

3:36:523:36:58

activists and volunteers on,

Saturdays in the affected towns

3:36:583:37:01

since Christmas, collecting

signatures for a Parliamentary

3:37:013:37:06

petition. Testing against these

closures which will be presented in

3:37:063:37:09

this place in the coming weeks. The

reason to follow this activity is

3:37:093:37:15

because of the real anger and

betrayal felt by the people in those

3:37:153:37:22

constituencies, at the loss of these

banks and their counsel Scott RBS is

3:37:223:37:26

a bank that belongs to them. They

audit fee if the Government.

Hear,

3:37:263:37:29

hear!

A bank was bailed out from his own

3:37:293:37:33

mistakes and mismanagement by their

taxes. Now their same bang is

3:37:333:37:38

leaving the community without a

backward glance, without any sense

3:37:383:37:41

of social responsibility to worse

the very communities upon whose

3:37:413:37:45

taxes the banks very continued

existence relied. Many communities

3:37:453:37:53

in Scotland will be left without a

bank following the latest

3:37:533:37:55

announcement of closures. My own

constituency, it brings the total

3:37:553:38:00

number of towns with no bank to a

staggering six. The towns no longer

3:38:003:38:11

have a bank, and now after these

latest round of closures should they

3:38:113:38:16

go ahead? We can add one more to

that list. It will be a town of over

3:38:163:38:23

16,000 people with no banking

facilities.

Absolutely shocking.

And

3:38:233:38:28

it would be funny if it were not so

appalling and ridiculous. I

3:38:283:38:34

honestly, Mr Speaker, do not think

any other constituency in the United

3:38:343:38:37

Kingdom has been adversely, so

cruelly hit. Indeed the banks state

3:38:373:38:46

of inertia is that a staggering

rate. I will give way.

I would like

3:38:463:38:51

to thank the honourable Lady and

mention her courage in getting

3:38:513:38:55

through this debate. Would she agree

with me that this is a particularly

3:38:553:38:59

badly hit by bank closures, such as

in Northeast vice where RBS calls

3:38:593:39:05

them I closed all but one?

I do

indeed. That is something, Mr

3:39:053:39:10

Speaker, I will than to my speech.

My cognizance has been shown of the

3:39:103:39:16

consequences of communities that the

banks are supposed to serve without

3:39:163:39:19

a backward glance.

The timely debate

on the whole issue about things. Not

3:39:193:39:28

only does it affect business here,

but nationally. Closures, people are

3:39:283:39:38

left to their own devices. It is a

national thing. And that is the

3:39:383:39:46

thank you the public and for billing

the banks out in the first place.

3:39:463:39:50

Indeed, and the honourable gentleman

has put his finger on the rails

3:39:503:39:53

source of the anger here, the sons

of abandonment. The sense of being

3:39:533:39:57

left to their own devices with no

facilities, other facilities upon

3:39:573:40:01

which to rely despite the fact that

the bank exist because the taxpayer

3:40:013:40:04

make sure that it did.

Congratulate

the honourable Lady in bringing

3:40:043:40:12

forward this motion to be considered

and thank her for giving us a chance

3:40:123:40:19

in a small way. Paul's honourable

leading, the fact that banking is

3:40:193:40:22

increasingly moving online is hard

for urban and rural communities who

3:40:223:40:28

are geographically isolated from the

physical bank. About broadband and

3:40:283:40:32

Internet backing... Does the

honourable Lady feel that this

3:40:323:40:37

should be clearly a concern before

any proposals that place?

Indeed.

3:40:373:40:42

The Commons the honourable gentleman

make code to the very heart of the

3:40:423:40:45

issue of financial inclusion. Social

inclusion in the point that he makes

3:40:453:40:51

about digital exclusion. So these

things have to be worked out

3:40:513:40:53

together. In some kind of organised

fashion. Of course closing the last

3:40:533:41:00

bank in town is something of which

the RBS and one point of its history

3:41:003:41:05

wanted not to do. But now it is

twisting itself into also associates

3:41:053:41:09

to associate itself asked to

dissociate itself from the earlier

3:41:093:41:12

promise. I suppose the appeal of the

PR man for RBS found that Val very

3:41:123:41:17

unattractive. But now it seems that

it is embarrassed by it and no

3:41:173:41:22

longer holding to it. We have heard

a little bit tonight about banking

3:41:223:41:26

online. We hear about this a lot. I

accept, and we all except that many

3:41:263:41:34

people now choose to bank online.

There is an argument about that and

3:41:343:41:40

for those who choose to bank online

or visit their lifestyle and their

3:41:403:41:43

needs, thinkable to them. But many

do not bank online. For a whole

3:41:433:41:46

variety of reasons. Many, as the

honourable gentleman said, choose

3:41:463:41:51

not to do so because they are

digitally excluded. It is a choice

3:41:513:41:54

that they are not able to make. I

will give way.

Barry at this point

3:41:543:42:00

because the resolution and the

country sectors were in relation

3:42:003:42:05

broadband. A lot of the will have

problems with BT and broadband. That

3:42:053:42:09

is an issue that ultimately denies

people the opportunity to go online.

3:42:093:42:16

The honourable judgement is right.

The banks talk about online banking

3:42:163:42:19

as though it is a choice. For many

people it is not a choice. They are

3:42:193:42:22

digitally excluded. Many people may

not be digitally excluded, but they

3:42:223:42:28

may simply decide that online

banking for whatever reason is not

3:42:283:42:32

for them. Mr Speaker, for the record

I put myself in that category. I

3:42:323:42:35

choose not to bank online. The point

is, Mr Speaker, it should be up to

3:42:353:42:43

the customer to choose how and when

bending.

Hear, hear!

3:42:433:42:47

It is not up to the banks to make

that decision for us. What we have

3:42:473:42:52

now, Mr Speaker, is a situation most

cynically or the banks have decided

3:42:523:42:56

that those of us who have chosen not

to bank online must be herded into

3:42:563:42:59

that particular pain, despite our

will.

I congratulate and commend my

3:42:593:43:07

honourable friend for securing the

debate in the way she is presenting

3:43:073:43:10

our argument which is very strong.

Could she comment on the feeling,

3:43:103:43:13

the strength of feeling on the

figures that have been released or

3:43:133:43:16

have not been released by RBS around

the fruit fall figures in their

3:43:163:43:20

branches? Certainly there is a

feeling and energy where they're

3:43:203:43:22

trying to close one of my branches

that they have not provided

3:43:223:43:27

sufficient or accurate information

around justifying those closures,

3:43:273:43:29

which is very concerning -- in

Airdrie?

The honourable judgement is

3:43:293:43:32

correct. We have all seen our own

constituencies. The jiggery-pokery

3:43:323:43:39

which has taken place with regard to

the presentation of these figures

3:43:393:43:41

which do not reveal... I'm hoping

that is the first time that instead

3:43:413:43:45

in hindsight. Jiggery-pokery.

I've

heard the term used previously by

3:43:453:43:54

the honourable gentleman for North

East Somerset.

LAUGHTER

3:43:543:43:56

Thank you for that clarification, Mr

Speaker. We do know that there has

3:43:563:44:02

been jiggery-pokery, there's been

all sorts of nefarious goings on

3:44:023:44:06

about how these figures are

presented. The colleagues are

3:44:063:44:10

shouting the words slipped it to me,

which may well indeed cover that

3:44:103:44:13

particular practise that is going

on. But the point is it is not

3:44:133:44:17

correct that customers are herded

into the pain of online banking, a

3:44:173:44:21

place where they have up to this one

chosen or perhaps been unable to go.

3:44:213:44:26

But we have been forced down this

road by banks as they shut up shop.

3:44:263:44:31

And if we insist that we do not want

to thank Almighty attitude from too

3:44:313:44:35

many banks and conversations I have

had, Mr Speaker, with banking

3:44:353:44:38

officials of who shall remain

nameless, the attitude if people

3:44:383:44:41

choose not to bank online is for the

banks collectively to shrug their

3:44:413:44:46

shoulders and say more or less

severe self, but still shutting a

3:44:463:44:49

bank.

Hear, hear!

Thank you for securing the debate.

3:44:493:44:57

Thank you for what you have done in

your constituency, and thank you for

3:44:573:45:04

using jiggery-pokery that I can

understand.

LAUGHTER

3:45:043:45:11

Different party issue. Join me in

expressing that none of the ten

3:45:113:45:19

banks that were given that reviewed

the Matt repeats that the ten month

3:45:193:45:25

reprieve instantly a stay of the ten

month reprieve instantly a stay of

3:45:253:45:28

this occasion and derisory for the

people of Scotland. RBS could do

3:45:283:45:31

better for the people that have been

customers for generations at RBS. It

3:45:313:45:36

has let down the people who made the

RBS.

I think the honourable

3:45:363:45:41

gentleman for that intervention, and

he is right. The ten banks that have

3:45:413:45:44

been given a reprieve are not

enough. Me of course I would be

3:45:443:45:47

disappointed that none of them are

there. Always the banks have been

3:45:473:45:52

reprieved well, I wish we did at the

other 52 earmarked for closure and

3:45:523:45:55

Scotland to the list of reprieved

banks because if we could give a

3:45:553:45:58

reprise to be banks in my

constituency I am quite sure that we

3:45:583:46:01

would make every effort to persuade

RBS thereafter that the reprieve was

3:46:013:46:06

a permanent state. But obviously the

goal would be to see if every bank.

3:46:063:46:10

I'll come back to that later because

I see the Minister looking at me

3:46:103:46:13

with a bit of alarm. LAUGHTER

The one question, Mr Speaker, I

3:46:133:46:22

would throw out there in terms of

digital exclusion will stop the

3:46:223:46:25

banks are often fond of telling us

that we don't need to have our

3:46:253:46:28

branches, we can bank on mine. I

would like to know what RBS in

3:46:283:46:31

particular who are behind these

closures, I would like to know what

3:46:313:46:34

their advice would be to customers

who are digitally excluded. Where do

3:46:343:46:39

they go when the last RBS in town

closes? How do they access banking

3:46:393:46:42

services?

I think the honourable

member for giving mentioned to me.

3:46:423:46:50

An excellent speech. One of the

things that RBS like to claim is

3:46:503:46:54

they've got these mobile things

going around. One of which comes

3:46:543:46:57

into my constituency at Dundee West.

But does my honourable member of

3:46:573:47:02

group me that how we often arrive 48

short period of time, they have

3:47:023:47:06

steps to get in so those who are

disabled cannot get him. When it is

3:47:063:47:10

raining you are spending their often

for half an hour to get service. The

3:47:103:47:14

very people who are not only

digitally excluded are the very

3:47:143:47:17

people who come for that essential

service.

Hear, hear!

3:47:173:47:20

The honourable judgement is correct.

RBS have informed me that in my

3:47:203:47:26

constituency that will replace the

branches with mobile banks.

3:47:263:47:30

Completely, unsatisfactory

situation.

Hear, hear!

3:47:303:47:33

They are delayed by the weather, by

traffic, they are not disability

3:47:333:47:39

compliant and apparently there

advises that if you are disabled or

3:47:393:47:43

immobile or mobility impairment and

you cannot access the physical

3:47:433:47:48

mobile bank, then apparently the

banking teller will come out and you

3:47:483:47:51

can do your banking in the middle of

the street. Well, that is absolutely

3:47:513:47:55

shocking.

I think the honourable

friend for giving way. She is making

3:47:553:48:02

an extremely passionate speech. The

Parliament revolt for disability

3:48:023:48:07

that I cherish not going to be

launching an inquiry into community

3:48:073:48:11

banking for people with disabilities

and mobility control problems. By

3:48:113:48:16

the honourable Lady, my constituents

who have mobility problems, RBS

3:48:163:48:24

plans to close things they feel

particularly let down that there

3:48:243:48:26

will be no services which are

appropriate and available.

Hear,

3:48:263:48:28

hear!

Indy. That is something I will be

3:48:283:48:31

coming to in a little while, about

the importance of providing

3:48:313:48:36

accessible and sustainable banking

services. And all the communities

3:48:363:48:38

for the needs of all our

communities. Those of us who cannot

3:48:383:48:41

get to the next town because of lack

of our own chessboard or public

3:48:413:48:45

transport or because of other

mobility issues.

Will my honourable

3:48:453:48:47

friend give way?

I will indeed.

She

has spoken about the impact of bank

3:48:473:48:53

closures in rural areas, but does

she agree with me also an outlying

3:48:533:48:56

village areas of the city like it

might constituency where the world

3:48:563:49:00

are BS and shut the bank last year,

this is a real impact on small

3:49:003:49:03

businesses on the High Street? If

they take that away, people will try

3:49:033:49:07

to the supermarket to get their cash

out and spend their money at the

3:49:073:49:10

supermarket rather than on the many

vibrant small businesses that exist

3:49:103:49:14

in places like this.

Hear, hear!

The honourable lady actually leads

3:49:143:49:20

very smoothly onto my neck point.

Although of course we are not that

3:49:203:49:23

concerned about that. The point the

honourable lady makes about the

3:49:233:49:31

effect on small businesses is

extremely important. Because we all

3:49:313:49:35

know that small businesses which are

the backbone of our communities, the

3:49:353:49:41

lifeblood of our communities, to

keep the heart of the High Street

3:49:413:49:43

beating. We all know that we work in

an extremely challenging retail

3:49:433:49:48

climate. And if local businesses, Mr

Speaker, cannot think their takings

3:49:483:49:53

at the end of the business day then

they encourage individual insurance

3:49:533:49:57

costs. I will finish this point.

They either take the cash at the end

3:49:573:50:01

of the business they put them

because the bank goes the snow might

3:50:013:50:06

say, so the average with them or

they try to be next town to bank

3:50:063:50:09

their takings, either way their

insurance costs go up. For

3:50:093:50:13

businesses already struggling with

the cost of survival, that could

3:50:133:50:17

well be enough to tip several of

them over the edge. And decent word

3:50:173:50:22

of banks in our towns that often

prove critical for this reason. --

3:50:223:50:25

the support of things in our House.

Let's not forget everybody in this

3:50:253:50:31

Chamber understands the importance

of small businesses keeping our high

3:50:313:50:34

Street alive.

Hear, hear!

I've got three banks shutting down.

3:50:343:50:43

A town that sees one local bank.

These banks opened up, it was local

3:50:433:50:48

workers who built these banks. You

are spot on about local and small

3:50:483:50:53

businesses, usually staff is going

to take a large sum of money. Then

3:50:533:50:58

go to the post office. The post

office is not equipped for that.

3:50:583:51:01

That is a very big debate. Thank you

very much.

I think the honourable

3:51:013:51:05

gentleman for intervention. I need

to make process because I know the

3:51:053:51:09

Minister is keen to respond.

LAUGHTER

3:51:093:51:14

I'm not going to give my

intervention.

3:51:143:51:22

Following the closure of their banks

is an alarming 18 point miles away.

3:51:223:51:28

A 12 point eight miles round-trip a

week. Customers have also been

3:51:283:51:36

directed to Irving, at 628 mile

round trip. This is not good enough.

3:51:363:51:40

When one considers that many of

these customers do not have access

3:51:403:51:44

to private transport. They will be

at the mercy of local public

3:51:443:51:48

transport and all weathers. The

elderly and the infirm will be left

3:51:483:51:53

to fend for themselves, as financial

and social exclusion bite in their

3:51:533:51:57

town. What we're talking about is

financial and social exclusion.

3:51:573:52:02

These bank closures may be affected

amenities no longer have access to

3:52:023:52:07

data to a services. The problems

mobile banks bring with them. They

3:52:073:52:13

are simply not a solution to the

problem of closing down the last

3:52:133:52:17

bank in town. They are a very poor

substitute, and the people expect

3:52:173:52:24

better and they deserve better.

Banks have shown and are showing

3:52:243:52:29

increasing leaks that they have no

sense of service to the community,

3:52:293:52:33

and tonight I am calling on the

Minister to establish and enforce a

3:52:333:52:38

guaranteed minimum level of service

for inessential banking services.

3:52:383:52:44

Recognising the importance of

continued access to banking for our

3:52:443:52:47

communities. Surely, as now time Mr

Speaker, giving that banks are

3:52:473:52:51

writing over our communities with no

sense of service or responsibility,

3:52:513:52:57

for a guaranteed minimal service, to

put in place. I know that the Prime

3:52:573:53:03

Minister has said repeatedly that

branch closures are operational make

3:53:033:53:08

for the banks, but that is not good

enough. It is still 70% owned by the

3:53:083:53:16

taxpayer, so this is a bitter pill

to swallow. In addition, we note the

3:53:163:53:21

UK government retains all

legislative and revelatory powers in

3:53:213:53:25

respect to financial services. The

UK government does have the

3:53:253:53:28

authority to call a halt to this

devastating round of closures.

3:53:283:53:34

Banks, stakeholders, and the

European Scottish governments

3:53:343:53:37

consider how best to take account of

the obligation to banking customers

3:53:373:53:40

and their communities. Whatever the

banks may say, they do have such an

3:53:403:53:45

obligation to our communities. They

have a financial service and a moral

3:53:453:53:50

obligation. In addition to the UK

government arguing that these are

3:53:503:53:54

operating for banks, there is a

precedent. The Minister knows there

3:53:543:53:59

is a president. The previous two

clerk came, because he confirmed his

3:53:593:54:05

time as chancellor, his consent,

consent Mr Speaker, whether sought

3:54:053:54:12

by IBS over the departure of

previous CEO. That means, Mr

3:54:123:54:17

Speaker, the UK government right now

could reject any closures unless and

3:54:173:54:23

until impact assessment had been

carried out, and should require RBS

3:54:233:54:28

to ensure the practical and

sustainable banking services are put

3:54:283:54:31

in place before any closures are

signed off. It really is time to

3:54:313:54:36

call on RBS to reverse these plant

closures. The UK government, the

3:54:363:54:41

Minister tonight, has a

responsibility to demonstrate he is

3:54:413:54:44

standing up for our communities on

this most important issue. The

3:54:443:54:48

Westminster leader, has persuaded

RBS to retrieve ten bridges across

3:54:483:54:55

Scotland until impact assessment had

been carried out. I wish those

3:54:553:54:58

communities well, but it does

nothing to soften the hard blow to

3:54:583:55:02

tell towns of my constituency who

face losing their banks and it has

3:55:023:55:07

to be said, it will lose its last

bank branch. In the past, the

3:55:073:55:12

Minister has suggested the customers

are not happy can move their

3:55:123:55:14

accounts to another bank. What does

he suggest that the people do when

3:55:143:55:18

there is no bank for them to move

to? Within a reasonable distance?

3:55:183:55:25

Customers have also been advised to

move their accounts to the post

3:55:253:55:28

office. I recall ten years ago,

under another government, I recall

3:55:283:55:35

having to save post office is. They

were being closed down in my

3:55:353:55:41

constituency. Post offices bolted

onto the back of the local spot,

3:55:413:55:46

does not provide the range of

services or proceeds that customers

3:55:463:55:49

need or deserve. I appeal in good

faith to Minister to ensure that

3:55:493:55:53

these closures are halted. That RBS

is ordered to halt, and have impact

3:55:533:56:04

assessments. All communities

affected should have nothing left.

3:56:043:56:08

And that towns deserve nothing less.

I asked the Minister today, it is he

3:56:083:56:12

going to stand with RBS management,

or is he going to a stand with the

3:56:123:56:16

communities affected? I urged him to

do the right thing and stand up for

3:56:163:56:23

our communities.

Here, here.

I would

like to sincerely commend for

3:56:233:56:34

securing this debate. She has spoken

once again very powerfully on the

3:56:343:56:39

half of her constituents. This is an

issue that she is passionate about,

3:56:393:56:44

and the RBS executives will note

there are over 20 members of

3:56:443:56:47

Parliament here. A number have

spoken and they will want to reflect

3:56:473:56:50

on the views that have been

expressed. Since becoming economic

3:56:503:56:56

Secretary on the 9th of January, I

had the privilege of responding to a

3:56:563:57:01

number of debates on bank branches

closures across the UK, and in

3:57:013:57:04

specific local areas. In each one, I

have heard important stories about

3:57:043:57:09

what the local bank branch can mean

to the community. I have heard that

3:57:093:57:12

again today. It means a great deal

in terms of practical ideas, to

3:57:123:57:17

access services, and I will turn to

that point in more detail. It can

3:57:173:57:23

also be, banks can be at the heart

of how people feel about their local

3:57:233:57:26

street, and the future of their

community. I'm putting my Treasury

3:57:263:57:31

response abilities aside, I, myself,

visited a bank in my own

3:57:313:57:36

constituency which is facing closure

exactly the same way the honourable

3:57:363:57:40

Lady set out. I had to sit down with

the bank manager and go through the

3:57:403:57:44

same sorts of arguments. They are

commercial decisions. I will say

3:57:443:57:48

more about that. I am not going to

give way, because I only have eight

3:57:483:57:52

and a half minutes. I want to do

justice. The Government is very

3:57:523:57:59

aware of the issues that have been

raised. I want to now talk about the

3:57:593:58:06

challenges that are facing the

banking sector. And facing our

3:58:063:58:11

communities at the same time. In a

previous debate, the honourable Lady

3:58:113:58:15

has said she does not bank online.

That is her choice. But whatever her

3:58:153:58:20

personal preference is, and whatever

our personal preference is, banking

3:58:203:58:24

is going through a period of

unprecedented technological change.

3:58:243:58:29

Consumer behaviour is changing

significantly, and banks are having

3:58:293:58:31

to adapt to those shifting patterns

of behaviour. This decisions that

3:58:313:58:37

they are making are sometimes not

popular, and I understand why. The

3:58:373:58:41

honourable Lady will be well aware

that those decisions are not for

3:58:413:58:44

government. The point was made about

the previous chancellor and former

3:58:443:58:52

member, signing off on the cheek

executive post. There is a big

3:58:523:58:58

difference between signing off on

the strategic leadership and getting

3:58:583:59:04

involved in day-to-day commercial

decisions. Each bank putt branch

3:59:043:59:08

strategy. I am not going to give

way. I am going to continue. There

3:59:083:59:13

we are. Each bank's bank strategy,

including whether to open or close

3:59:133:59:18

individual banks, is for the

management of that bank to

3:59:183:59:22

determine. I understand that it's

frustrating. It is frustrating to

3:59:223:59:25

all of us. The Government rightly

does not intervene in these

3:59:253:59:29

commercial decisions. Nor does the

Government managed the RBS group.

3:59:293:59:33

RBS is headed by its own board,

which is responsible for strategic

3:59:333:59:39

direction and decisions. All

businesses strive to deliver for

3:59:393:59:42

their customers. But they need to be

able to plan for the future and make

3:59:423:59:45

the changes were needed. These are

complex commercial decisions. RBS

3:59:453:59:50

have made their decisions in line

with their commercial strategy,...

3:59:503:59:55

No I will not. They are entitled to

ask questions. And to press RBS on

3:59:554:00:02

the rationale. While I do not agree

the Government should or could

4:00:024:00:08

cancel RBS decision, I am certain

the honourable Lady's views

4:00:084:00:13

expressed here again, on behalf of

her constituents, will have been

4:00:134:00:16

hurt by RBS. On the cover-up of that

role, with respect to the post

4:00:164:00:23

office, previously, the honourable

Lady has said the Government has not

4:00:234:00:26

lifted a finger to help. I must beg

to differ. On this side of the

4:00:264:00:32

House, we are taking action, and I

welcome the opportunity to reiterate

4:00:324:00:35

that this evening. For those who

still need or want a thinking

4:00:354:00:39

person, we have helped to expand and

improve face-to-face banking

4:00:394:00:43

services at the post office. Mr

Speaker, there are 11,000 post

4:00:434:00:48

office branches in the UK, 11,000

600. There are post offices in the

4:00:484:00:58

three count she has mentioned.

Indeed, across the UK, 9% of

4:00:584:01:04

personal customers and 95% of

business customers can do their

4:01:044:01:08

day-to-day banking there in response

to the member from Edinburgh South

4:01:084:01:12

West, who was concerned about the

issue of... I am going to respond to

4:01:124:01:16

the points raised. Small businesses

and cash, the RBS bank to offer cash

4:01:164:01:24

career services, and post office

can't accept up to 20,000, 2000, and

4:01:244:01:32

others can be made on a case-by-case

basis. As the honourable Lady has

4:01:324:01:36

mentioned, previously, this might

not be a service that people are

4:01:364:01:40

familiar fully with yet, but I

believe it does offer a valuable

4:01:404:01:44

alternative. People are adjusting to

the reality of what can be attained

4:01:444:01:47

from the post office. It is

important that people who can

4:01:474:01:50

benefit from the services know about

them. I will keep pushing both the

4:01:504:01:54

banks and the post office to do more

to raise awareness of the expanded

4:01:544:01:58

services that they jointly offer. It

is important that they make this

4:01:584:02:02

case proactively and publicly. We

should spread the message far and

4:02:024:02:07

wide. We can all do our day-to-day

banking services at the post office,

4:02:074:02:12

and we in this House can help

reassure people who may be worried

4:02:124:02:16

about this issue. In terms of the

oversight of banks, where things do

4:02:164:02:22

decide to close branches, the

Government ongoing support for the

4:02:224:02:26

industry access to banking standards

is making a difference. All the

4:02:264:02:31

major banks have signed up to this

standard. It commits bank to a

4:02:314:02:37

number of them... When bank closes.

In some cases, they have given six

4:02:374:02:44

months notice. Second, they will

consider what services can still be

4:02:444:02:48

provided locally, and communicate

clearly with customers about

4:02:484:02:51

alternative ways to bank, and third,

they will ensure that support

4:02:514:02:56

customers who need extra help to

bank online or access services at

4:02:564:03:01

the post office. The standard is not

just a list of outcomes, it has

4:03:014:03:06

teeth. It monitors and enforces this

standard. They are actively

4:03:064:03:13

monitoring how RBS and other banks

fulfil their obligations to their

4:03:134:03:18

customers when branch is. They have

a range of tools and stations at

4:03:184:03:22

their disposal, should a bank fall

short. I know they are very open to

4:03:224:03:26

talking to individual members on

behalf of of their communities, and

4:03:264:03:31

I was encouraged the honourable Lady

and her colleagues to... No. To do

4:03:314:03:37

so, if she has concerns about the

steps RBS is taking or not taking in

4:03:374:03:42

her constituency. The access to

banking standards is the practical

4:03:424:03:45

way to shape her bank's approach,

and I would encourage all members of

4:03:454:03:50

the House on all sides of the House,

to ensure their communities are

4:03:504:03:54

aware and able to engage it with the

bank directly. Now, one of the other

4:03:544:03:59

issues is about access to cash and

several members have mentioned this.

4:03:594:04:03

The Government continues to work

with industry to ensure provision to

4:04:034:04:05

the widespread free access to cash,

and in December, the organisation

4:04:054:04:11

which runs the ATM, committed to

protecting all ATMs, which are a

4:04:114:04:18

kilometre or more from the next one.

This is a for their inclusion

4:04:184:04:27

programme, and I hope will reassure

members across the House. The

4:04:274:04:30

honourable Lady it hard for her

constituents, in North Ayrshire. As

4:04:304:04:38

have a number of members spoken this

evening. I am sure their concerns

4:04:384:04:42

have been hurt. We all understand

the frustration and disappointment

4:04:424:04:47

caused by bank closures. But, Mr

Speaker, these are not government

4:04:474:04:55

decisions. The Government putt

policy remains clear. RBS are

4:04:554:04:58

responsible for these decisions, and

RBS must defend them. Banking is

4:04:584:05:06

changing. No. Banking is changing

rapidly. We cannot deny that

4:05:064:05:10

reality. The Government does not

believe, sorry, the Government does

4:05:104:05:17

believe to support communities

across the UK when banks are closed.

4:05:174:05:22

We are all deeply engaged with,

trying to find the best solution for

4:05:224:05:26

individual communities. We can help

draw attention to these issues and

4:05:264:05:30

work constructively to help my

constituencies to access the

4:05:304:05:33

services they need. For my part, I

will keep pushing for everyone to

4:05:334:05:37

access banking services they need,

wherever they live.

The ayes have

4:05:374:05:48

it. Order, order.

4:05:484:05:59

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