Browse content similar to 14/03/2018. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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in that inquiry finding as to how it
relates to his I will be strategy. | 0:00:00 | 0:00:00 | |
Very happy to meet with the
honourable lady. Perfect ending. We | 0:00:00 | 0:00:07 | |
now come to the ten minute rule
motion. Thank you I beg to move that | 0:00:07 | 0:00:18 | |
leave be given to bring in a about
about supervised drug consumption | 0:00:18 | 0:00:24 | |
facilities. One of my constituents
mentioned to me on Monday that | 0:00:24 | 0:00:32 | |
Glasgow already has drug consumption
facilities behind the bushes near | 0:00:32 | 0:00:35 | |
his flat. They are in his close when
it rains and in bench Schettlers. | 0:00:35 | 0:00:46 | |
Public toilets where drug users can
grasp the tiny bit of privacy for as | 0:00:46 | 0:00:51 | |
long as it takes to prepare and
inject their fix. They are often | 0:00:51 | 0:00:56 | |
alone and too Regevly drug users
will die as a result. As a society | 0:00:56 | 0:00:59 | |
we can and we must do much better
than that. There is a real and | 0:00:59 | 0:01:04 | |
persistent issue in Glasgow. In 2016
there were 2,593 drug-related deaths | 0:01:04 | 0:01:11 | |
registered in England and Wales. 867
registered in Scotland. 257 in the | 0:01:11 | 0:01:18 | |
city of Glasgow. We have an ageing
population of people with long-term | 0:01:18 | 0:01:21 | |
problem drug use. They are
increasingly run be rabl and require | 0:01:21 | 0:01:25 | |
particular interventions to reduce
harm and encourage them to engage in | 0:01:25 | 0:01:30 | |
health services. This ageing
population who are in deteriorating | 0:01:30 | 0:01:41 | |
health. Due to their sustained drug
use they have aged 15 years greater | 0:01:41 | 0:01:48 | |
than their actual age. They have
above population incidents including | 0:01:48 | 0:02:01 | |
liver disease, skin infections,
depression and psychosis. They are | 0:02:01 | 0:02:04 | |
vulnerable to overdose and emergency
hospital admission. The Scottish | 0:02:04 | 0:02:08 | |
drugs forum carried out research
interviews with a group of older | 0:02:08 | 0:02:11 | |
people with a drug problem. They
feel strongly they have been left | 0:02:11 | 0:02:14 | |
behind and seen as aest with a of
space. There needs to be a | 0:02:14 | 0:02:17 | |
recognition by this House that the
programmes will not necessarily work | 0:02:17 | 0:02:20 | |
for everyone and that harm reduction
and support will be better and more | 0:02:20 | 0:02:25 | |
worthwhile interventions for a group
of people who have not managed to | 0:02:25 | 0:02:28 | |
eliminate drug use in the proceeding
decades. Evidence shows that | 0:02:28 | 0:02:33 | |
long-term engagement is a positive
factor. People in Glasgow who will | 0:02:33 | 0:02:36 | |
use this facility are not in
treatment. It would get them through | 0:02:36 | 0:02:41 | |
the door and provide social and
medical support tole stabilise their | 0:02:41 | 0:02:43 | |
lives. The report reducing
drug-related deaths in recommends | 0:02:43 | 0:02:52 | |
that. | 0:02:52 | 0:02:58 | |
The report. Cites evidence which
demonstrates the facilities reduce | 0:03:08 | 0:03:15 | |
injecting behaviours and overdose
fatalities. They have been estimated | 0:03:15 | 0:03:17 | |
to save more money than they cost
due to the reductions in deaths and | 0:03:17 | 0:03:24 | |
HIV infection they produce. They do
not increase injection, drug use or | 0:03:24 | 0:03:28 | |
crime rates. They can provide other
benefits such as reductions in blood | 0:03:28 | 0:03:34 | |
born viruses and primary care and
intensive form of drug treatments. | 0:03:34 | 0:03:38 | |
No deaths from overdoses have ever
occurred in such facilities. Madame | 0:03:38 | 0:03:42 | |
Deputy Speaker Glasgow has a
proposal. A well-worked through | 0:03:42 | 0:03:48 | |
business case which has supported by
the Scottish Government. Drug law | 0:03:48 | 0:03:51 | |
remains reserved to Westminster and
Scottish ministers have requested | 0:03:51 | 0:03:54 | |
permission from the Home Office to
allow for the proposal to go ahead. | 0:03:54 | 0:03:59 | |
It's not yet been granted. It has
potential to reduce deaths and | 0:03:59 | 0:04:06 | |
integrated service and as
recommended, not just a shooting | 0:04:06 | 0:04:09 | |
gallery. It will allow for
engagement with the population who | 0:04:09 | 0:04:12 | |
are not being assisted very well at
all. Medically trained staff who | 0:04:12 | 0:04:19 | |
supervise and minister drugs should
it be required. Some may say that | 0:04:19 | 0:04:23 | |
this is an unnecessary expense. I
should say to the ministers it will | 0:04:23 | 0:04:25 | |
cost them nothing. For Glasgow there
is a significant cost in not doing | 0:04:25 | 0:04:29 | |
this. A cost in treating the latest
HIVout break and treat be HepC and | 0:04:29 | 0:04:36 | |
other conditions. Hospital
admissions and ambulance call-outs | 0:04:36 | 0:04:39 | |
and police time dealing with
complaints. The significant cost in | 0:04:39 | 0:04:43 | |
clearing up discarded needles,
residents being charged by a problem | 0:04:43 | 0:04:47 | |
not of their making and the council
picking up the tab for public | 0:04:47 | 0:04:51 | |
spaces. Housing Associations are
clearing up areas of hundreds of | 0:04:51 | 0:04:58 | |
discarded syringes. A constituent
phoned me to say there are syringes | 0:04:58 | 0:05:03 | |
on her doorstep. Residents can be
pricked by a contaminated needle and | 0:05:03 | 0:05:09 | |
the cost in human lives. We should
consider all these cost that is we | 0:05:09 | 0:05:12 | |
are currently paying in a situation
that helps no-one. Heroin assisted | 0:05:12 | 0:05:16 | |
treatment has been mentioned as an
alternative to supervised drugs | 0:05:16 | 0:05:20 | |
consumption. Room. I would like to
touch on limitations for this. I | 0:05:20 | 0:05:26 | |
would like to stress while this can
be a treatment for whom many other | 0:05:26 | 0:05:29 | |
interventions have failed it's not
suitable for everyone. Capacity and | 0:05:29 | 0:05:34 | |
cost issues. Glasgow city centre is
thought to have a population in the | 0:05:34 | 0:05:38 | |
region of 500 injecting drug users.
The Glasgow health and social care | 0:05:38 | 0:05:42 | |
partnership believe they would have
capacity for 40 to 60 individuals | 0:05:42 | 0:05:47 | |
for heroin assisted treatment and
only when the service is running to | 0:05:47 | 0:05:51 | |
full capacity. That will not happen
sometime yet. It requires two | 0:05:51 | 0:05:56 | |
separate licences to operate, a
premises licence in the gift of the | 0:05:56 | 0:05:59 | |
Home Office and a prescribers
licence depending on the premises | 0:05:59 | 0:06:04 | |
licence. It's not a simple process.
It's been developed alongside the | 0:06:04 | 0:06:08 | |
proposal for a supervised drug
consumption facility. To operate | 0:06:08 | 0:06:15 | |
supervised drug consumption facility
requires the consent of the Home | 0:06:15 | 0:06:17 | |
Office. Operating, working in and
using the facility requires | 0:06:17 | 0:06:21 | |
protection in law. | 0:06:21 | 0:06:24 | |
Madam Deputy Speaker, the supporters
of this bill come from a range of | 0:06:36 | 0:06:41 | |
parties. In a letter I wrote to the
Home Secretary earlier this year, it | 0:06:41 | 0:06:50 | |
garnered the same cross-party
support from across Scotland. I'm | 0:06:50 | 0:06:52 | |
particularly grateful to the
honourable member from Stirling he | 0:06:52 | 0:06:55 | |
said we should reach out to those in
the grip of drug abuse and do what | 0:06:55 | 0:06:58 | |
we can to help them escape. This is
very much a step in that direction. | 0:06:58 | 0:07:07 | |
Madam Deputy Speaker, in my 11 years
as an elected member in Glasgow, the | 0:07:07 | 0:07:11 | |
issue of drug-taking has been a
constant. I have seen various police | 0:07:11 | 0:07:17 | |
initiatives shunt people around, I
have seen the council clear up the | 0:07:17 | 0:07:20 | |
mess at significant cost and
significant risks to their workers, | 0:07:20 | 0:07:24 | |
I have seen workers at their wits
end, worried about what they will | 0:07:24 | 0:07:28 | |
open the door to in the morning,
drug, excrement and used syringes on | 0:07:28 | 0:07:33 | |
their doorsteps regularly, daily. I
have seen vulnerable and desperate | 0:07:33 | 0:07:36 | |
men and women injecting into their
groin and head in public places as | 0:07:36 | 0:07:41 | |
they have nowhere else to go. And I
have listened to heartbreak and | 0:07:41 | 0:07:45 | |
families who have lost loved ones.
If it was their choice, they would | 0:07:45 | 0:07:48 | |
not have their loved one die alone
in a dirty backroom. They would want | 0:07:48 | 0:07:54 | |
a medical facility where help could
be sought. The status quo says none | 0:07:54 | 0:08:01 | |
of these people well. I cannot
accept that this is the best we can | 0:08:01 | 0:08:04 | |
do. It is unacceptable. We must try
something different. I accept that | 0:08:04 | 0:08:08 | |
it may not work but we must at least
try. Today, as international ask a | 0:08:08 | 0:08:15 | |
question day, my question of the UK
Government is this. Glasgow has a | 0:08:15 | 0:08:18 | |
plan which could reduce drug
nuisance to residents, reduce drug | 0:08:18 | 0:08:26 | |
use. Will the UK Government allow us
to get on with this? The question is | 0:08:26 | 0:08:35 | |
that the honourable member has leave
to bring in the bill. As many of | 0:08:35 | 0:08:38 | |
that opinion is a aye. Aye. I think
the ayes habit. The ayes have it. | 0:08:38 | 0:08:45 | |
They will prepare and bring in the
Bill? Crispin Blunt, Mr Alistair | 0:08:45 | 0:08:50 | |
Carmichael, Joanna Cherry, row and
Alan, Liz Lovell Roberts, Paul | 0:08:50 | 0:08:58 | |
Sweeney, and myself. | 0:08:58 | 0:09:09 | |
Supervised drug communities Bill.
Second reading which day? Friday | 0:09:26 | 0:09:34 | |
27th of April. Thank you. | 0:09:34 | 0:09:38 | |
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I
rise point of order to seek your | 0:09:44 | 0:09:48 | |
guidance as to what Parliamentary
procedure might be available to | 0:09:48 | 0:09:51 | |
available to me to get a reply from
the Home Office on matters relating | 0:09:51 | 0:09:56 | |
to my constituents. Four months ago
to the day I wrote to the then | 0:09:56 | 0:10:00 | |
Minister of State in the Home Office
asking him whether he would review | 0:10:00 | 0:10:04 | |
the support line at UK VI because
most staff were unable to get | 0:10:04 | 0:10:11 | |
information. Four months later I
have received no reply despite many | 0:10:11 | 0:10:15 | |
reminders. Madam Deputy Speaker, the
problem remains in the meantime and | 0:10:15 | 0:10:19 | |
I feel that this lack of support
from UK VI is compromising my | 0:10:19 | 0:10:24 | |
ability as an elected member to
represent my constituents who are in | 0:10:24 | 0:10:28 | |
very grave circumstances so I seek
your direction as to what can be | 0:10:28 | 0:10:32 | |
done to make the home Department to
respond. I thank the honourable | 0:10:32 | 0:10:38 | |
member for giving me notice that he
wished to raise this matter. It is | 0:10:38 | 0:10:45 | |
obviously unsatisfactory that he has
had to wait for such a long time to | 0:10:45 | 0:10:52 | |
receive a response. But I am sure
his concern has been heard on the | 0:10:52 | 0:10:56 | |
Treasury bench and will be conveyed
to the Home Office? Thank you. | 0:10:56 | 0:11:06 | |
Meanwhile, he has obviously made his
dissatisfaction clear and is now on | 0:11:06 | 0:11:10 | |
the record. With no further points
of order, we now come to the general | 0:11:10 | 0:11:16 | |
debate on European affairs. The
theme of the day's debate is | 0:11:16 | 0:11:23 | |
International Trade and called a
minister. Madam Deputy Speaker, | 0:11:23 | 0:11:28 | |
first, can I welcome that we are
having this debate and perhaps | 0:11:28 | 0:11:36 | |
returning to the tradition of
pre-European Council debate here in | 0:11:36 | 0:11:40 | |
the House of Commons. I used to take
part in those twice yearly debate | 0:11:40 | 0:11:45 | |
and I checked my last contribution
made in June 2000 and eight. And I | 0:11:45 | 0:11:53 | |
reminded myself that I, like so many
others on these benches, called for | 0:11:53 | 0:11:57 | |
a new approach in Europe in the
immediate aftermath of the Irish | 0:11:57 | 0:12:02 | |
rejection of the Lisbon Treaty. But
the purpose of the day's debaters | 0:12:02 | 0:12:07 | |
not to dwell on missed opportunities
in the past and reflect on what | 0:12:07 | 0:12:12 | |
might have been had the EU itself
reformed. We are here to look to the | 0:12:12 | 0:12:18 | |
future. The Department for
International Trade is that the very | 0:12:18 | 0:12:22 | |
centre of that bright future. Before
we turn to the future of our trade | 0:12:22 | 0:12:26 | |
with Europe and the negotiations
under way, I think it's important to | 0:12:26 | 0:12:30 | |
take stock of what we have achieved
so far. The joint report issued in | 0:12:30 | 0:12:36 | |
September that other financial
settlement just as we said we would. | 0:12:36 | 0:12:44 | |
It agrees to avoid a hard border in
Ireland was respecting the UK's | 0:12:44 | 0:12:49 | |
integrity which was added one of the
Government's priorities for these | 0:12:49 | 0:12:53 | |
negotiations. And, very importantly,
its safeguard the rights of EU | 0:12:53 | 0:12:57 | |
citizens living in the UK and UK
nationals living abroad which the | 0:12:57 | 0:13:02 | |
Prime Minister has always said was
her first priority. Indeed, Madam | 0:13:02 | 0:13:09 | |
Deputy Speaker, 17% of my
constituents in Chelsea and Phil are | 0:13:09 | 0:13:12 | |
nationals of other EU countries. I
have personally put in a lot of time | 0:13:12 | 0:13:17 | |
and effort in outreach to them.
Indeed, my wife is an EU national | 0:13:17 | 0:13:22 | |
and I can report to the House at the
December agreement landed very well | 0:13:22 | 0:13:26 | |
amongst EU nationals in Chelsea and
Phil. Madam Deputy Speaker, Ireland, | 0:13:26 | 0:13:32 | |
the budget and citizens rights.
These are the strong foundations for | 0:13:32 | 0:13:37 | |
the ongoing negotiations and we
should all welcome the progress made | 0:13:37 | 0:13:39 | |
on them. Of course. Will the
Minister acknowledge that there are | 0:13:39 | 0:13:47 | |
still very serious concerns about
what is going to happen to preserve | 0:13:47 | 0:13:51 | |
an invisible border on the island of
Ireland, a border with no physical | 0:13:51 | 0:14:00 | |
infrastructure, and there is
actually seemingly a | 0:14:00 | 0:14:02 | |
misunderstanding in some parts
between what will actually meant by | 0:14:02 | 0:14:05 | |
the fallback option of full
alignment? We have been absolutely | 0:14:05 | 0:14:10 | |
clear, we will of course be abiding
by the December agreement in full. | 0:14:10 | 0:14:16 | |
Just a reminder, the three
priorities that we laid out was a | 0:14:16 | 0:14:20 | |
strong commitment to avoid a hard
border, but also to preserve the | 0:14:20 | 0:14:25 | |
integrity of the UK market. I would
remind her that that is a very | 0:14:25 | 0:14:31 | |
important market for the people of
Northern Ireland, to have access to | 0:14:31 | 0:14:35 | |
the UK market, and also that no UK
Prime Minister could axe that a new | 0:14:35 | 0:14:40 | |
border down the Irish Sea. We are
also making strong progress now | 0:14:40 | 0:14:47 | |
trading relationships outside the
EU. My primary responsibility as the | 0:14:47 | 0:14:51 | |
Minister for trade policy is that
area. Yes, of course. Following up | 0:14:51 | 0:14:59 | |
from that point, the Prime Minister
at Prime Minister's Questions | 0:14:59 | 0:15:01 | |
repeated her full commitment to the
December agreement on Ireland. Does | 0:15:01 | 0:15:05 | |
that therefore mean when he said no
hard border, that means no physical | 0:15:05 | 0:15:10 | |
infrastructure, I issued -- I
assume. Of course I accept there | 0:15:10 | 0:15:17 | |
will not be a border across the
Irish Sea, but does Harry accept | 0:15:17 | 0:15:20 | |
that if there is no other way of
achieving it, we will have the full | 0:15:20 | 0:15:25 | |
regulatory convergence to which the
Government signed up in December? I | 0:15:25 | 0:15:30 | |
thank my right honourable friend for
his intervention. What I would say | 0:15:30 | 0:15:33 | |
and reiterate of course what the
Prime Minister said at Mansion House | 0:15:33 | 0:15:38 | |
and what you said at Prime
Minister's Questions this week of | 0:15:38 | 0:15:41 | |
course still stands. I refer my
right honourable friend back to the | 0:15:41 | 0:15:44 | |
papers published by the Department
for exiting the European Union last | 0:15:44 | 0:15:49 | |
summer in terms of how a border, a
proper border between the two parts | 0:15:49 | 0:15:53 | |
of Ireland, and the effectuate it
through the two possible types of | 0:15:53 | 0:16:00 | |
customs agreement between the UK and
the European Union. Of course. I | 0:16:00 | 0:16:06 | |
asked the Prime Minister during the
statement and I have listened to her | 0:16:06 | 0:16:12 | |
about paragraph 27 of the December
agreement which talks about the | 0:16:12 | 0:16:16 | |
mapping exercise being undertaken
about North-South co-operation. Will | 0:16:16 | 0:16:19 | |
the Government commit to publishing
that mapping exercise? Madam Deputy | 0:16:19 | 0:16:26 | |
Speaker, of course the Government is
undertaking analysis on so many | 0:16:26 | 0:16:30 | |
different factors involved in this
particular arrangement and this | 0:16:30 | 0:16:34 | |
particular question. We have always
made clear our commitment to ensure | 0:16:34 | 0:16:39 | |
that the House is properly appraised
of all other relevant facts when it | 0:16:39 | 0:16:44 | |
comes to examine the actual
withdrawal agreement in due course. | 0:16:44 | 0:16:48 | |
As are preparing the ground at the
Department of International trade, | 0:16:48 | 0:16:54 | |
Department of International trade
ministers have made over 100 | 0:16:54 | 0:16:56 | |
overseas visits in the last year and
a half. We have set up 14 trade | 0:16:56 | 0:17:00 | |
working groups covering 21
countries. These are ones with | 0:17:00 | 0:17:04 | |
substantial market sums. None of
this would have been possible | 0:17:04 | 0:17:07 | |
without the excellent work of our
Department for International Trade | 0:17:07 | 0:17:10 | |
staff both at home and imposed in
108 countries around the world and I | 0:17:10 | 0:17:15 | |
would like first of all to put on
record my thanks for their hard | 0:17:15 | 0:17:19 | |
work, professionalism and invaluable
expertise. But Madam Deputy | 0:17:19 | 0:17:24 | |
Speaker... Of course give way. I'm
grateful to the Minister for giving | 0:17:24 | 0:17:29 | |
way and he is right to pay tribute
to his department's staff and has he | 0:17:29 | 0:17:34 | |
need to the comments of the recent
former permanent secretary of his | 0:17:34 | 0:17:38 | |
department of the effect that non-EU
trade, if we are to leave the | 0:17:38 | 0:17:43 | |
European Union, will not be able to
make up for the lost trade with the | 0:17:43 | 0:17:46 | |
EU that we enjoy now? And secondly,
can I ask him with regards to the | 0:17:46 | 0:17:52 | |
Secretary of State, his Secretary of
State was part of a campaign which | 0:17:52 | 0:17:56 | |
promised we could start negotiating
new trade agreements with non-EU | 0:17:56 | 0:18:02 | |
countries as soon as we agreed to
leave. Can he tell me how many of | 0:18:02 | 0:18:06 | |
these are being negotiated right
now? First of all, the honourable | 0:18:06 | 0:18:09 | |
member knows full well that it isn't
an either or situation. It is not a | 0:18:09 | 0:18:16 | |
choice between having trade with the
European Union or with the rest of | 0:18:16 | 0:18:19 | |
the world. The Government's
objectives are clear, which is to | 0:18:19 | 0:18:23 | |
secure a deep and cobranded
partnership with the European Union | 0:18:23 | 0:18:26 | |
whilst still being crucially outside
of the customs union to be able to | 0:18:26 | 0:18:31 | |
pursue an independent trade policy
and to secure those trade agreements | 0:18:31 | 0:18:34 | |
with the rest of the world. In terms
of what was said during campaigns, | 0:18:34 | 0:18:40 | |
all I would say to him is that I
believe that the payment of | 0:18:40 | 0:18:44 | |
International Trade has the
capability in place, we have built | 0:18:44 | 0:18:47 | |
up the department to make sure that
we are able to, I mentioned the 14 | 0:18:47 | 0:18:52 | |
trade working groups, we are clearly
not able to carry out a tray biggish | 0:18:52 | 0:18:56 | |
nation whilst we are still members
of the European Union. So at the | 0:18:56 | 0:19:01 | |
same hand, he seems to be a
demanding that we are having these | 0:19:01 | 0:19:04 | |
negotiations and B, saying that we
should stay in the European Union, | 0:19:04 | 0:19:08 | |
which would prevent us from having
the negotiations on the first place. | 0:19:08 | 0:19:11 | |
I give way to my honourable friend.
I begged my honourable friend for | 0:19:11 | 0:19:17 | |
giving way. Does he agree with me
that given the incredible depth and | 0:19:17 | 0:19:24 | |
complexity of the UK's trade with
Europe, there is no off-the-shelf | 0:19:24 | 0:19:30 | |
solution from any other trade
relationship that fits? And were on | 0:19:30 | 0:19:33 | |
the issue of what happens at our
customs, does he agree that if we | 0:19:33 | 0:19:38 | |
are to have this frictionless trade,
there is clearly going to need to be | 0:19:38 | 0:19:43 | |
some form of agreement for what
happens at our customs, such as a | 0:19:43 | 0:19:48 | |
partnership or another type of
agreement butter I thank my | 0:19:48 | 0:19:52 | |
honourable friend for that
intervention. She is right. There is | 0:19:52 | 0:19:57 | |
no off-the-shelf agreement that
would be suitable in this case. We | 0:19:57 | 0:20:01 | |
are clear that we are seeking a
bespoke arrangement between the | 0:20:01 | 0:20:04 | |
United Kingdom and the European
Union. Neither something like seater | 0:20:04 | 0:20:09 | |
or the EEA would be suitable. In
terms of a corporation, we are clear | 0:20:09 | 0:20:14 | |
in seeking to have a good agreement
with the European Union that creates | 0:20:14 | 0:20:19 | |
trade as frictionless as possible as
we go forward across all our | 0:20:19 | 0:20:24 | |
borders, not just the internal
border within the island of Ireland. | 0:20:24 | 0:20:29 | |
Can I take him back to the
appearance moment ago of the former | 0:20:29 | 0:20:35 | |
permanent secretary? When Mr
Connelly was interviewed on the | 0:20:35 | 0:20:38 | |
today programme that morning, so
keen worthy presenters to get his | 0:20:38 | 0:20:45 | |
sound bite about the packet of
crisps, they gave no analysis | 0:20:45 | 0:20:49 | |
whatsoever to his figures which were
about 10% awry from those issued by | 0:20:49 | 0:20:55 | |
the National statistics office. Did
the department do any digging into | 0:20:55 | 0:20:58 | |
where his figures came from? I think
my honourable friend tempts me down | 0:20:58 | 0:21:07 | |
a path which I think I ought to
resist in terms of I'm not exactly | 0:21:07 | 0:21:11 | |
sure what figures the former
permanent secretary used, but what I | 0:21:11 | 0:21:15 | |
am clear run is that the figures are
clear. European Union trade is | 0:21:15 | 0:21:19 | |
extremely important to this country
but it is nonetheless a declining | 0:21:19 | 0:21:24 | |
part of our overall trade, down from
56% of our overall trade in 2006 to | 0:21:24 | 0:21:30 | |
just 43% today. Madam Deputy
Speaker, I'm going to make a little | 0:21:30 | 0:21:34 | |
bit of progress. We are not working
purely on non-EU trade. A common | 0:21:34 | 0:21:40 | |
misconception is that the de IT is a
purely Brexit apartment. Our ongoing | 0:21:40 | 0:21:45 | |
work encourages export to trade in
Europe and outside of it. The | 0:21:45 | 0:21:56 | |
Department of International Trade
has 300 staff across continental | 0:21:56 | 0:21:58 | |
Europe and I myself have visited 16
European visits to ten European | 0:21:58 | 0:22:02 | |
countries whilst being in this
position as have all of our | 0:22:02 | 0:22:07 | |
ministerial team including the
Secretary of State. We have | 0:22:07 | 0:22:09 | |
brilliant teams. Brilliant teams in
commercial centres right across | 0:22:09 | 0:22:14 | |
Europe. I give way to my right
honourable friend. | 0:22:14 | 0:22:20 | |
Can we just returned to the comments
made by Sir Martin Connolly? I don't | 0:22:21 | 0:22:27 | |
think the record will be accurate.
We have heard mention of a bag of | 0:22:27 | 0:22:31 | |
crisps. He said that based on his
experience, 15 years and beyond | 0:22:31 | 0:22:37 | |
specifically in the area of trade,
was that in effect our country was | 0:22:37 | 0:22:43 | |
embarking upon a course where we
were about to swap the equivalent of | 0:22:43 | 0:22:46 | |
a three course meal for a bag of
crisps. Could my right honourable | 0:22:46 | 0:22:50 | |
friend help us with this? Has he
seen the government's on analysis of | 0:22:50 | 0:22:56 | |
the various options available to us
that show, that even if we get a | 0:22:56 | 0:23:00 | |
trade deal with every single country
with whom we don't have one by | 0:23:00 | 0:23:05 | |
virtue of our membership of the
European Union, which is about 50, | 0:23:05 | 0:23:10 | |
we would still not be as prosperous
as we are now by virtue of our | 0:23:10 | 0:23:17 | |
membership of the European Union. I
thank my right honourable friend for | 0:23:17 | 0:23:20 | |
that lengthy intervention. What I
would say is that there is no such | 0:23:20 | 0:23:27 | |
analysis, Madam Deputy Speaker, of
the kind she describes. What I am | 0:23:27 | 0:23:34 | |
clear on is it is our objective to
maintain frictionless trade with the | 0:23:34 | 0:23:38 | |
European Union as we go forward. It
is our objective to conduct an | 0:23:38 | 0:23:43 | |
independent trade policy, and to
seek a trade agreements when the | 0:23:43 | 0:23:46 | |
time is right with those partners.
It is also our objective is to seek | 0:23:46 | 0:23:51 | |
the continuity in existing EU trade
agreements for the UK, which I note | 0:23:51 | 0:23:56 | |
the party opposite voted against on
the second reading of the trade | 0:23:56 | 0:24:00 | |
bill, that they are actually opposed
to was seeking the continuity of | 0:24:00 | 0:24:06 | |
existing trade agreements. Martin
Depper disfigure... I will give way. | 0:24:06 | 0:24:10 | |
I am grateful. I would like to go
back to the analysis that was | 0:24:10 | 0:24:17 | |
published by the government, in
particular the risk presented by | 0:24:17 | 0:24:21 | |
nontariff barriers. It was clear in
the analysis that even if we had an | 0:24:21 | 0:24:30 | |
agreement, there would still be
damage to the UK economy. Is the | 0:24:30 | 0:24:35 | |
minister saying that he wants EA
plus? Madine Deputy Speaker, I | 0:24:35 | 0:24:45 | |
understand the intervention board
the government has been clear from | 0:24:45 | 0:24:49 | |
more than a year since the Lancaster
House speech, that our objective is | 0:24:49 | 0:24:53 | |
not to seek an E E A start
agreement. It is our objective to | 0:24:53 | 0:25:02 | |
seek a deep and comprehensive
agreement with the European Union. | 0:25:02 | 0:25:05 | |
The like of which, I would remind my
honourable friend, who studies these | 0:25:05 | 0:25:10 | |
matters very carefully, the like of
which was not one modelled in those | 0:25:10 | 0:25:16 | |
analyses. That was the most
important point. I will give a few | 0:25:16 | 0:25:21 | |
examples of our work around Europe.
I promoted the UK defence industry | 0:25:21 | 0:25:25 | |
in Sweden. Visiting Saab, whose new
fighter jet could be worth £1.1 | 0:25:25 | 0:25:31 | |
billion to UK industry. I and my
colleagues engaged with the Polish | 0:25:31 | 0:25:37 | |
government on behalf of UK
governments to discuss high-value | 0:25:37 | 0:25:40 | |
retail opportunities in the Czech
Republic. I have addressed Chambers | 0:25:40 | 0:25:47 | |
of commerce, and my colleagues from
the IT have addressed Chambers of | 0:25:47 | 0:25:51 | |
commerce, right the way across the
European Union, Austria, Hungary, | 0:25:51 | 0:25:56 | |
Bulgaria and others. And I enjoyed
making use of language skills when I | 0:25:56 | 0:26:00 | |
gave speeches in German. The
Department of trade's relationship | 0:26:00 | 0:26:10 | |
with Europe does not just extend to
export. The vote to leave the EU was | 0:26:10 | 0:26:16 | |
not evolved to undermine the EU. It
is important to undermine that -- | 0:26:16 | 0:26:22 | |
underline that it is in our interest
to have a strong European Union. We | 0:26:22 | 0:26:26 | |
are continuing to engage
constructively in ongoing EU trade | 0:26:26 | 0:26:30 | |
policy, as we currently are a full
and equal member. We are working | 0:26:30 | 0:26:36 | |
closely with our European partners
as well as bilaterally to respond to | 0:26:36 | 0:26:40 | |
President Trump's decision to impose
tariffs on imported steel and | 0:26:40 | 0:26:44 | |
aluminium. We are committed to
ratifying the Ceta agreement which | 0:26:44 | 0:26:51 | |
provisionally came into effect in
September. I was delighted, Madam | 0:26:51 | 0:26:55 | |
Deputy Speaker, that when we did so
we were joined by 86 Labour MPs, | 0:26:55 | 0:27:01 | |
many in this chamber at the moment,
in defiance of their front bench to | 0:27:01 | 0:27:07 | |
support the EU trade agenda in
making sure that seat was passed in | 0:27:07 | 0:27:10 | |
defiance of the party whip. In 40 --
voting for this important agreement | 0:27:10 | 0:27:16 | |
with Justin Trudeau's Canada. I have
attended four trade ministers' | 0:27:16 | 0:27:27 | |
foreign affairs councils. The
commission has been particularly | 0:27:27 | 0:27:32 | |
focusing on agreements with South
America's union and with Mexico. We | 0:27:32 | 0:27:38 | |
continue to support the ongoing
negotiations were both free trade | 0:27:38 | 0:27:42 | |
agreements. On Mexico we would like
to see progress made wherever | 0:27:42 | 0:27:46 | |
possible in the negotiations,
although we recognise the complexity | 0:27:46 | 0:27:50 | |
of Nafta renegotiations running in
parallel. We will continue our | 0:27:50 | 0:27:54 | |
support for EU members at trade
negotiations and would like to | 0:27:54 | 0:27:59 | |
emphasise the urgent need to
progress the trade component. It is | 0:27:59 | 0:28:03 | |
essential to keep momentum and
achieved a swift political | 0:28:03 | 0:28:06 | |
agreement. Another high-profile
agreement is the EU Japan so it can | 0:28:06 | 0:28:15 | |
be signed during the Japanese
President's visit to Brussels this | 0:28:15 | 0:28:19 | |
year. As a champion of free trade
the UK has been one of the strongest | 0:28:19 | 0:28:24 | |
advocates, I actually believe the
strongest advocate, of this. We | 0:28:24 | 0:28:28 | |
warmly welcome the work of both
sides to reach this agreement, which | 0:28:28 | 0:28:32 | |
will support global prosperity. We
continue to engage constructively on | 0:28:32 | 0:28:37 | |
EU business and with our European
partners, and we continue to push UK | 0:28:37 | 0:28:42 | |
trade and investment to businesses
on the European continent. It is | 0:28:42 | 0:28:44 | |
important that our trade agreement
-- engagement includes Europe, | 0:28:44 | 0:28:50 | |
because our nearest and largest
neighbour will always be of great | 0:28:50 | 0:28:53 | |
importance. Now I often hear the
criticism that trade deals outside | 0:28:53 | 0:28:58 | |
the EU cannot make up for the loss
in EU trade. It has been referred to | 0:28:58 | 0:29:02 | |
by a couple of interventions
earlier. As I say, this is not an | 0:29:02 | 0:29:07 | |
either or choice. I can assure the
House that the government fully | 0:29:07 | 0:29:12 | |
understands the importance of EU
trade. The EU is our largest trading | 0:29:12 | 0:29:16 | |
partner, 43% of export and 54%
imports. This shows the importance | 0:29:16 | 0:29:27 | |
of making cross-border trade as free
and as frictionless as possible. | 0:29:27 | 0:29:31 | |
That is why it is important that we
get our relationship with Europe | 0:29:31 | 0:29:34 | |
right. And the right relationship...
I will give way. Will the future of | 0:29:34 | 0:29:44 | |
frictionless trade be better than it
is now? What I have said is we are | 0:29:44 | 0:29:52 | |
seeking a good comprehensive, deep,
wide trade partnership with the | 0:29:52 | 0:29:56 | |
European Union, as frictionless as
possible. That is why the right | 0:29:56 | 0:29:59 | |
relationship is this deep,
comprehensive and unique free-trade | 0:29:59 | 0:30:01 | |
agreement with Europe are based on
the principles the Prime Minister | 0:30:01 | 0:30:08 | |
set out throughout 2017, and in her
speech a fortnight ago, and opposing | 0:30:08 | 0:30:13 | |
Labour's latest Brexit policy of
keeping the UK in the Customs Union | 0:30:13 | 0:30:23 | |
with the EU. We want to have the
greatest possible tariff and barrier | 0:30:23 | 0:30:27 | |
free trade with our European
neighbours, as well as to negotiate | 0:30:27 | 0:30:30 | |
our own trade agreement around the
world. I give way to the member from | 0:30:30 | 0:30:34 | |
the Liberal Democrats. In pursuit of
this future relationship, can he | 0:30:34 | 0:30:39 | |
update the House on the progress
that has been made in relation to | 0:30:39 | 0:30:43 | |
the continuity of trading terms,
especially in relation to product | 0:30:43 | 0:30:50 | |
designation orders and
geographically identifiable | 0:30:50 | 0:30:56 | |
products? Last week the Secretary of
State for Scotland told me there | 0:30:56 | 0:30:59 | |
would be absolutely no change and
that that can be guaranteed. | 0:30:59 | 0:31:04 | |
Yesterday, the minister of state at
Dev are said absolutely nothing | 0:31:04 | 0:31:09 | |
could be done. Which is correct? --
Defra. It is a bit rich. On the one | 0:31:09 | 0:31:18 | |
hand he votes against EU Withdrawal
Bill, and then he calls for | 0:31:18 | 0:31:21 | |
something that is a consequence of
that not to happen. That is creating | 0:31:21 | 0:31:27 | |
a new scheme in the UK which we will
be doing in consultation with the | 0:31:27 | 0:31:31 | |
devolved administrations, to make
sure that we continue the protection | 0:31:31 | 0:31:35 | |
of the UK's 84 registered GIs within
the UK. That is the objective of | 0:31:35 | 0:31:41 | |
this government, which I would hope
he would support. I will make some | 0:31:41 | 0:31:44 | |
progress. I know there have been
questions as to why we would want a | 0:31:44 | 0:31:53 | |
bespoke trade agreement rather than
taking one of the shelf, which the | 0:31:53 | 0:31:56 | |
argument goes would be easier to
negotiate. I would like to remind | 0:31:56 | 0:32:00 | |
the House of the government's
reasons for choosing this over | 0:32:00 | 0:32:03 | |
existing models. And why whatever
model you choose, it must involve | 0:32:03 | 0:32:11 | |
leaving the Customs Union. In Norway
style deal may seem superficially | 0:32:11 | 0:32:16 | |
attractive but will be subject to
new rules the commission chose to | 0:32:16 | 0:32:19 | |
enact automatically and in their
entirety with no end point. Most | 0:32:19 | 0:32:24 | |
importantly, we would have little
influence on those rules and No | 0:32:24 | 0:32:28 | |
vote, which would be too much of a
loss of Democratic control, and also | 0:32:28 | 0:32:32 | |
no guarantee, far from it, that
whatever the EU 27 and it would also | 0:32:32 | 0:32:36 | |
be in the interest of UK business. I
will make some more progress. Nor | 0:32:36 | 0:32:40 | |
should we look to a Canadian style
agreement as the answer, even if it | 0:32:40 | 0:32:45 | |
were easier to achieve a Ceta deal,
we start from the unique position of | 0:32:45 | 0:32:50 | |
regulator ollie alignment with the
EU. We start from a position where | 0:32:50 | 0:32:56 | |
our systems are already the same. It
is precisely because the government | 0:32:56 | 0:33:00 | |
recognises our imported EU trade is,
that we must look to an ambitious | 0:33:00 | 0:33:04 | |
deal rather than starting a
relationship from scratch with | 0:33:04 | 0:33:07 | |
something like Ceta. However, as
important as trade with the EU is, | 0:33:07 | 0:33:12 | |
we must also look outside Europe.
The IMF, and this is a statistic you | 0:33:12 | 0:33:17 | |
will also find in the European
commission, 90% of global growth | 0:33:17 | 0:33:24 | |
will come from beyond the EU. China
has an economy the size of | 0:33:24 | 0:33:28 | |
Switzerland every year. There will
be over 1 billion middle-class | 0:33:28 | 0:33:32 | |
African consumers in the year 2060.
Commonwealth GDP is protected to hit | 0:33:32 | 0:33:41 | |
$13 trillion in two years. These are
unprecedented opportunities. Yet | 0:33:41 | 0:33:45 | |
these opportunities are harder to
reach from behind the EU's customs | 0:33:45 | 0:33:48 | |
wall. Only once we can sign our own
independent trade deals can we take | 0:33:48 | 0:33:55 | |
full advantage of this. Signing
those deals means being outside of | 0:33:55 | 0:34:00 | |
the Customs Union. We only need to
look to Turkey to see that being in | 0:34:00 | 0:34:07 | |
the Customs Union, in whole or in
part, can sometimes be the worst of | 0:34:07 | 0:34:11 | |
all worlds. The EU is currently
negotiating a deal with Japan, very | 0:34:11 | 0:34:18 | |
important to understand this, Madame
Deputy Speaker. If it finalises that | 0:34:18 | 0:34:22 | |
deal, and we are very strongly
supportive of that deal, Turkey will | 0:34:22 | 0:34:27 | |
need to reduce tariffs on Japanese
imports. But it will not get | 0:34:27 | 0:34:32 | |
reciprocal access to the Japanese
market. It will have to negotiate | 0:34:32 | 0:34:37 | |
its own access. But negotiating such
access will be more difficult as | 0:34:37 | 0:34:41 | |
Turkey will have already reduced its
tariffs, so it won't are have as | 0:34:41 | 0:34:45 | |
much to give in return. As the Prime
Minister set out repeatedly, we are | 0:34:45 | 0:34:50 | |
looking for a bespoke agreement. For
goods, this will be based on a | 0:34:50 | 0:34:56 | |
comprehensive agreement of mutual
recognition, so products only need | 0:34:56 | 0:35:00 | |
to be approved once. On services, we
have the opportunity to establish a | 0:35:00 | 0:35:04 | |
broader agreement than ever before.
I give way. My right honourable | 0:35:04 | 0:35:10 | |
friend is very kind and generous in
giving way, especially as I am ready | 0:35:10 | 0:35:13 | |
not helping him. With the greatest
amount of respect he knows, as | 0:35:13 | 0:35:19 | |
everybody else knows, that we will
and can achieve all these deals with | 0:35:19 | 0:35:23 | |
countries like China as a member of
the European Union. I have met, by | 0:35:23 | 0:35:30 | |
way of example, the ambassador from
Australia. And of course he will do | 0:35:30 | 0:35:35 | |
or want to do a trade deal with our
great country. But they will be | 0:35:35 | 0:35:41 | |
looking for the first trade deal to
be done with the European Union with | 0:35:41 | 0:35:46 | |
its 500 million customers. Would he
not agree with me it's very | 0:35:46 | 0:35:49 | |
important that we make all these
things very clear to the British | 0:35:49 | 0:35:52 | |
people? We do trade deals at the
moment with countries by virtue of | 0:35:52 | 0:35:59 | |
our membership of the European
Union. The only reason we're leaving | 0:35:59 | 0:36:02 | |
the Customs Union just to chase
unicorn deals we can get in the EU. | 0:36:02 | 0:36:11 | |
The honourable lady knows her
intervention is too long, because | 0:36:11 | 0:36:14 | |
she said the last time. It was a
long intervention. With respect to | 0:36:14 | 0:36:20 | |
my honourable friend she and I
served alongside each other in | 0:36:20 | 0:36:24 | |
government. The British people have
made the decision to leave the | 0:36:24 | 0:36:31 | |
European Union. It is now the
efforts of this government to ensure | 0:36:31 | 0:36:35 | |
that we have the best frictionless
trade deal with the union while | 0:36:35 | 0:36:41 | |
still take advantage of trade
opportunities beyond the EU. That is | 0:36:41 | 0:36:45 | |
what the objective of the Government
is. I really, I have used up 24 | 0:36:45 | 0:36:51 | |
minutes. On services we have the
opportunity to establish a broader | 0:36:51 | 0:36:55 | |
agreement than ever and we recognise
we cannot have the rights of single | 0:36:55 | 0:37:00 | |
market membership such as
passporting and financial services, | 0:37:00 | 0:37:05 | |
just as we understand you can't have
all the benefits of single market | 0:37:05 | 0:37:10 | |
membership without the obligations.
But this does not mean she should be | 0:37:10 | 0:37:19 | |
shackled by existing precedents. The
main point to remember is that it is | 0:37:19 | 0:37:27 | |
strongly in European Union
countries' interest to sign and | 0:37:27 | 0:37:31 | |
agree such a deal. On the day we
leave we will become the EU's second | 0:37:31 | 0:37:37 | |
largest trade being partner. Larger
than any of China, Japan or India. | 0:37:37 | 0:37:43 | |
The commission estimates trade
between the UK and the EU 27 to be | 0:37:43 | 0:37:49 | |
812 billion euros. That is only 8%
behind the EU 27's main trading | 0:37:49 | 0:37:55 | |
partner, the United States. But it
is 60% more than China who come | 0:37:55 | 0:38:01 | |
third. Given the effort the EU has
put into deals with the likes of | 0:38:01 | 0:38:09 | |
Mexico, Vietnam and Singapore, all
of which we support, but each of | 0:38:09 | 0:38:14 | |
which are significantly less
important to them than we are, it | 0:38:14 | 0:38:17 | |
would be odd indeed for them to
reject proposals from us. Further, | 0:38:17 | 0:38:23 | |
both the EU and the UK need to be
sending a loud and clear message | 0:38:23 | 0:38:28 | |
that we are both strong believers in
free trade and what message would it | 0:38:28 | 0:38:33 | |
show if we couldn't agree a free
trade agreement? Even this | 0:38:33 | 0:38:40 | |
underestimates our importance to the
EU, it is the type of trade that | 0:38:40 | 0:38:43 | |
matters not just the volume. Our
advantages are in the business | 0:38:43 | 0:38:47 | |
professional and financial services
that other businesses need to grow | 0:38:47 | 0:38:51 | |
and in pharmaceutical goods that no
one wants to exclude. For an | 0:38:51 | 0:38:56 | |
advanced economy, good financial
infrastructure is as important as | 0:38:56 | 0:39:00 | |
physical infrastructure, even if it
is not as obvious. Restricting | 0:39:00 | 0:39:05 | |
Europe's access to the City's
infrastructure would be the act of a | 0:39:05 | 0:39:13 | |
latter day Beeching. The rest of
network could try and pick up the | 0:39:13 | 0:39:19 | |
slack, but that network and I know
because I have worked in sector has | 0:39:19 | 0:39:24 | |
less capacity and EU businesses
cannot connect to the capital market | 0:39:24 | 0:39:28 | |
that they need. Indeed, the EU talks
about a capital markets union. But | 0:39:28 | 0:39:37 | |
how tenable is this without access
to Europe's main capital market. But | 0:39:37 | 0:39:43 | |
our reputation goes beyond mutual
interest. Our membership is one part | 0:39:43 | 0:39:46 | |
of our relationship with Europe. We
can still be neighbours, 30 | 0:39:46 | 0:39:53 | |
kilometres off the coast of France.
We will still be in the same core | 0:39:53 | 0:39:58 | |
organisations that the EU are part
of from the European court of human | 0:39:58 | 0:40:02 | |
rights to the UN to NATO from, the
IMF to the WTO. The economic | 0:40:02 | 0:40:09 | |
security and humanitarian links that
hold the international system | 0:40:09 | 0:40:12 | |
together. Nevertheless to conclude,
the department for international | 0:40:12 | 0:40:16 | |
trade is preparing... I'm going to
finish. The department of | 0:40:16 | 0:40:19 | |
international trade is preparing
this country for life outside of the | 0:40:19 | 0:40:22 | |
EU. We are taking forward trade and
customs bills to give as a | 0:40:22 | 0:40:28 | |
functioning customs regime on day
one. As you would expect, these have | 0:40:28 | 0:40:32 | |
been designed to prepare us for
every eventuality, although they | 0:40:32 | 0:40:35 | |
will be needed regardless of the
outcome of our negotiations with the | 0:40:35 | 0:40:39 | |
EU. They will give us a strong trade
remedy regime, free trade does not | 0:40:39 | 0:40:45 | |
mean trade without rules, but Labour
opposed these powers at second | 0:40:45 | 0:40:48 | |
reading. Our independent trade
remedies regime will allow us to | 0:40:48 | 0:40:55 | |
protect UK industry from unfair
dumping or subsidy and balancing the | 0:40:55 | 0:41:01 | |
interests of UK consumers and
businesses, delivered through an | 0:41:01 | 0:41:05 | |
independent authority and businesses
will have the confidence they need | 0:41:05 | 0:41:07 | |
that it will be impartial and not
act against the interests of wider | 0:41:07 | 0:41:12 | |
industry. I want to make sure this
new regime works as well as | 0:41:12 | 0:41:16 | |
businesses should from the start. We
are consulting on which existing EU | 0:41:16 | 0:41:21 | |
trade remedies we should carry over.
I would encourage any business with | 0:41:21 | 0:41:25 | |
an interest to respond before that
consultation closes and for members | 0:41:25 | 0:41:31 | |
with interests to help publicise
this. The taxation cross border | 0:41:31 | 0:41:38 | |
trade bill will allow us to create a
UK trade preferences regime for | 0:41:38 | 0:41:43 | |
developing country. Also opposed by
Labour, the SNP and the Liberal | 0:41:43 | 0:41:48 | |
Democrats at second reading. The UK
is a proud advocate of supporting | 0:41:48 | 0:41:54 | |
developing countries to reduce
poverty through trade and I hope | 0:41:54 | 0:41:57 | |
Labour will reconsider its stance.
This will let us continue the scheme | 0:41:57 | 0:42:07 | |
of helping countries and removing
import tariffs and allowing us to | 0:42:07 | 0:42:13 | |
explore improvement on the EU's
system. Leaving the European Union | 0:42:13 | 0:42:19 | |
will allow us to negotiate trade
deals across the world, but this | 0:42:19 | 0:42:24 | |
government understands the
importance of trade with the EU. | 0:42:24 | 0:42:26 | |
That is why we are seeking a deep
and special partnership with the EU. | 0:42:26 | 0:42:31 | |
This is the only appropriate option.
We across all parties should be | 0:42:31 | 0:42:35 | |
optimistic that this can be
achieved. Thank you. The question is | 0:42:35 | 0:42:44 | |
the House has considered European
affairs. Before I call the spokesman | 0:42:44 | 0:42:47 | |
for the opposition it will be
obvious to the House that a great | 0:42:47 | 0:42:50 | |
many people wish to speak and we
have limited time. There will be an | 0:42:50 | 0:42:57 | |
initial limit on backbench speeches
of eight minutes. Which is likely | 0:42:57 | 0:43:00 | |
then to reduce. I make this
announcement now that members can | 0:43:00 | 0:43:08 | |
tailor their speeches accordingly.
Thank you. It was a year ago | 0:43:08 | 0:43:13 | |
yesterday that this House voted to
give the Prime Minister the | 0:43:13 | 0:43:18 | |
authority to trigger Article 50. It
is almost a year since she did so | 0:43:18 | 0:43:22 | |
and 20 months since the referendum
result. The Government accepted the | 0:43:22 | 0:43:27 | |
EU time table, and while the cut off
point may slip by a week or two, the | 0:43:27 | 0:43:33 | |
draft withdrawal agreement including
the framework for the future | 0:43:33 | 0:43:35 | |
relationship will have to be wrapped
up in just seven months time. We | 0:43:35 | 0:43:40 | |
welcome the joint report published
in December and the progress it | 0:43:40 | 0:43:43 | |
represented. But the fact remains
that the Government is running out | 0:43:43 | 0:43:48 | |
of time and running out of road. So
it is extraordinary that despite the | 0:43:48 | 0:43:53 | |
scale of task that confronts us the
Government have decided the best use | 0:43:53 | 0:43:59 | |
of our time is two days of general
debate, without even the possibility | 0:43:59 | 0:44:03 | |
of a vote. While we welcome any and
every chance to debate Brexit and | 0:44:03 | 0:44:08 | |
Europe, it is a farcical situation.
No date has been set for the customs | 0:44:08 | 0:44:18 | |
or trade deals. The immigration bill
we are told will hopefully be with | 0:44:18 | 0:44:22 | |
us before Christmas, a year after it
was expected, but as the Home | 0:44:22 | 0:44:26 | |
Secretary made clear it may not even
be law by the day we leave. And | 0:44:26 | 0:44:31 | |
there is no sign of the fisheries or
agricultural bills or anything that | 0:44:31 | 0:44:37 | |
could reasonably be described as a
domestic legislative agenda. This is | 0:44:37 | 0:44:47 | |
an approach known to experiments as
"run away." The reason for this is | 0:44:47 | 0:44:52 | |
obvious. The party opposite remains
divide over Brexit and what the | 0:44:52 | 0:44:58 | |
future relationship with the EU 27
should be. I'm happy to give way. | 0:44:58 | 0:45:05 | |
Thank you. Let's, can he agree with
me, to be honest about this, there | 0:45:05 | 0:45:11 | |
is some division on these benches,
but there is division sill on those | 0:45:11 | 0:45:16 | |
benches as well. And while the move
to a customs union has been | 0:45:16 | 0:45:23 | |
welcomed, does he anticipate we
might see more movement to the | 0:45:23 | 0:45:27 | |
customs union and accepting that the
single market would also be a good | 0:45:27 | 0:45:31 | |
way to settle it? I thank the
honourable lady for her | 0:45:31 | 0:45:36 | |
intervention. I think we need to be
honest about this and an issue of | 0:45:36 | 0:45:40 | |
this magnitude is bound to create
different views in all parties. But | 0:45:40 | 0:45:45 | |
I would argue that the divisions on
this side are nothing like the | 0:45:45 | 0:45:49 | |
fundamental divisions that are in
the Cabinet and on the Government | 0:45:49 | 0:45:53 | |
benches and certainly the divisions
on our side are not preventing | 0:45:53 | 0:45:56 | |
legislation from being brought
forward to allow us to vote on them. | 0:45:56 | 0:46:00 | |
The Prime Minister's...
Minister's... I want to make | 0:46:00 | 0:46:05 | |
progress. The Prime Minister's
speech was an amendment to muffle | 0:46:05 | 0:46:10 | |
those divisions as provi clarity. It
with was a more detail speech and | 0:46:10 | 0:46:21 | |
devoid of empty slogans No repeat of
earlier banalities of Brexit means | 0:46:21 | 0:46:28 | |
Brexit. The speech started to engage
with the hard truths, stressed the | 0:46:28 | 0:46:33 | |
need for compromise on all sides and
conceded trade offs will have to be | 0:46:33 | 0:46:40 | |
made. As with her Florence speech in
September, one wishes the content | 0:46:40 | 0:46:46 | |
could have been delivered earlier
and had it been, I suspect the | 0:46:46 | 0:46:49 | |
country would have been in a better
position today. Judging by the raft | 0:46:49 | 0:46:55 | |
of cherry and cake met afores we
heard, in response to her statement | 0:46:55 | 0:46:59 | |
on Monday, the Prime Minister's
speech may have succeeded in its | 0:46:59 | 0:47:05 | |
objective of holding together her
divided party and giving her a | 0:47:05 | 0:47:11 | |
degree of room to manoeuvre. But the
divisions remain. That is the | 0:47:11 | 0:47:15 | |
obvious, for if they were healed, we
would be considering the report | 0:47:15 | 0:47:20 | |
stage of the customs or trade bill,
rather than having a general debate. | 0:47:20 | 0:47:24 | |
Make no mistake, those divisions
will have to be confronted and the | 0:47:24 | 0:47:30 | |
sensible majority given the
opportunity to shape the Brexit | 0:47:30 | 0:47:34 | |
process sooner rather than later.
Because while the Prime Minister's | 0:47:34 | 0:47:36 | |
speech was more realistic in
important ways, it was still not | 0:47:36 | 0:47:40 | |
realistic enough. The theme of
today's debate is international | 0:47:40 | 0:47:44 | |
trade and arguably. I will give way.
Thank you. On the Prime Minister's | 0:47:44 | 0:47:50 | |
speech, she said that we will have
less access given the hard Brexit | 0:47:50 | 0:47:56 | |
that the Government is pursuing.
Will he agree that less market | 0:47:56 | 0:48:00 | |
access to our biggest market means
fewer jobs, less investment and less | 0:48:00 | 0:48:05 | |
economic growth? Thank you. I agree.
I couldn't have put it better | 0:48:05 | 0:48:11 | |
myself. It was in the sections
relating to customs that were the | 0:48:11 | 0:48:16 | |
least convincing part of Prime
Minister's speech, in contrast to | 0:48:16 | 0:48:18 | |
other areas there was no attempt to
engage with the hard truths what | 0:48:18 | 0:48:23 | |
about leaving the customs union will
mean, particularly with that | 0:48:23 | 0:48:27 | |
decision on manufacturing and the
issue of Irish border. As the House | 0:48:27 | 0:48:30 | |
knows, the Prime Minister went back
to the two propositions the | 0:48:30 | 0:48:35 | |
Government set out in the paper in
August last year, a customs | 0:48:35 | 0:48:39 | |
partnership between the UK and the
EU or a highly streamlined customs | 0:48:39 | 0:48:45 | |
arrangement, where we would agree to
imMr implement a range of measures | 0:48:45 | 0:48:52 | |
for Northern Ireland. The first
untried and untested. By the | 0:48:52 | 0:48:56 | |
Government's own admission would
take at least five years to | 0:48:56 | 0:49:00 | |
implement and would be ripe for
abuse. It was rejected by the EU | 0:49:00 | 0:49:03 | |
last year. Not least because it
would require EU members to reckon | 0:49:03 | 0:49:11 | |
figure their own national customs
systems. It is not blue sky | 0:49:11 | 0:49:16 | |
thinking, it is pie in the sky
thinking. The second option would | 0:49:16 | 0:49:19 | |
according to the Chief Executive of
HMRC take three years to take place | 0:49:19 | 0:49:25 | |
and would result in friction on the
boarders and would require measures. | 0:49:25 | 0:49:34 | |
The Prime Minister in her speech
claimed that both options were | 0:49:34 | 0:49:38 | |
serious. But they were widely
rubbished in the wake of that speech | 0:49:38 | 0:49:43 | |
and the EU ruled them out as
non-starters. The truth is the | 0:49:43 | 0:49:48 | |
Government have no idea about what
to do when it custom and the Irish | 0:49:48 | 0:49:54 | |
border. The full back in the draft
legal Tex that the Northern Ireland | 0:49:54 | 0:50:01 | |
goes into into a customs union with
the south and the border is shifted | 0:50:01 | 0:50:06 | |
to somewhere in the Irish Sea is
unsip -- unacceptable. But so that | 0:50:06 | 0:50:13 | |
means that the Irish border issue
remained unresolved. One part of the | 0:50:13 | 0:50:18 | |
solution would be as the opposition
suggested to negotiate a new customs | 0:50:18 | 0:50:24 | |
union. It would ensure goods could
still be traded with the EU | 0:50:24 | 0:50:31 | |
tariff-free. The exact terms of such
a union would of course have to be | 0:50:31 | 0:50:35 | |
negotiated. But it represents a
pragmatic proposals, reflecting | 0:50:35 | 0:50:40 | |
current arrangements which has been
welcomed by trade unions and | 0:50:40 | 0:50:47 | |
businesses, including the
manufacturers organisation and the | 0:50:47 | 0:50:51 | |
CBI. A new union would not prevent
the UK from trading globally or | 0:50:51 | 0:50:58 | |
improving our export industry. Just
as the EU customs union has not | 0:50:58 | 0:51:03 | |
accepted Germany making China its
largest trading partner. Germany has | 0:51:03 | 0:51:09 | |
exports four times more to China
than the UK. The UK would still be | 0:51:09 | 0:51:19 | |
able to deal in property and
businesses could export to non-EU | 0:51:19 | 0:51:24 | |
markets. In short there is no
question the EU could and would | 0:51:24 | 0:51:31 | |
increase trade inside a customs
union. As the Secretary for | 0:51:31 | 0:51:35 | |
international trade said in relation
to the Prime Minister's visit to | 0:51:35 | 0:51:38 | |
China. | 0:51:38 | 0:51:42 | |
A new comprehensive UK the EU
Customs Union would acquire the UK | 0:51:42 | 0:51:49 | |
to adopt a common tariff system with
the EU. It is true that we would not | 0:51:49 | 0:51:56 | |
be able to negotiate independent
third-party trade deals. But as many | 0:51:56 | 0:52:00 | |
honourable members have already
mentioned, we need to face some hard | 0:52:00 | 0:52:05 | |
facts in this area. The notion that
future free-trade agreements will | 0:52:05 | 0:52:08 | |
offset the inevitable economic
cost... If I can finish this | 0:52:08 | 0:52:15 | |
point,... To say that it is simply
not an either or question does not | 0:52:15 | 0:52:21 | |
get to the heart of the question
that confront us. Wildie honourable | 0:52:21 | 0:52:27 | |
member confirmed that when he is
saying he wants to stay in the | 0:52:27 | 0:52:32 | |
Customs Union with the EU, Izzy also
able to confirm that he will | 0:52:32 | 0:52:37 | |
continue to comply with EU state aid
and competition law as a condition | 0:52:37 | 0:52:44 | |
of staying in that the Customs
Union? Because I can't find a single | 0:52:44 | 0:52:48 | |
example of a country that is allowed
to stay in the Customs Union while | 0:52:48 | 0:52:52 | |
disregarding the state aid laws.
When it comes to state aid rules, I | 0:52:52 | 0:52:59 | |
think the honourable lady, and I
know she has great expertise in this | 0:52:59 | 0:53:03 | |
area, I think she has slightly
misjudged the fact that as I | 0:53:03 | 0:53:07 | |
understand that it is not about
customs, it is about the elements | 0:53:07 | 0:53:10 | |
that make up the single market. We
have said we would see in principle | 0:53:10 | 0:53:15 | |
to negotiate protections,
clarifications or exemptions were | 0:53:15 | 0:53:18 | |
necessary. I can't imagine a
situation where those exemptions | 0:53:18 | 0:53:21 | |
would be necessary. As the Leader of
the Opposition said some time ago, | 0:53:21 | 0:53:25 | |
there is nothing in the current
state aid rules that would prevent | 0:53:25 | 0:53:28 | |
us from implementing our manifesto.
As Sir Martin Donnelly and many | 0:53:28 | 0:53:35 | |
honourable members already
mentioned, the former permanent | 0:53:35 | 0:53:38 | |
secretary at the Department of
International trade says it is like | 0:53:38 | 0:53:46 | |
giving up a three course meal for a
packet of crisps. The EU constitutes | 0:53:46 | 0:53:50 | |
43% of exports and 53% of imports.
It must be our priority. Increases | 0:53:50 | 0:53:55 | |
to trade for a new free treat --
free-trade agreements with USA, | 0:53:55 | 0:53:58 | |
Canada, New Zealand and Australia
would... I will make some progress. | 0:53:58 | 0:54:05 | |
FTAs with the brick countries would
be worth just over 2%. Any such | 0:54:05 | 0:54:11 | |
trade deals, even if they were
secured in a reasonably quick time | 0:54:11 | 0:54:16 | |
frame, would in all likelihood
entailed detrimental trade-offs that | 0:54:16 | 0:54:21 | |
the British public would rightly
take issue with. On the point about | 0:54:21 | 0:54:30 | |
regulation, the government analysis
paper outlines opportunities from | 0:54:30 | 0:54:33 | |
Brexit. It says that across
Whitehall they are working on these | 0:54:33 | 0:54:38 | |
opportunities. Does he not agree
this is a code for deregulation? The | 0:54:38 | 0:54:46 | |
Secretary of State cannot give us
any clarification on the | 0:54:46 | 0:54:49 | |
Environmental Protection Agency. I
thank my honourable friend for that | 0:54:49 | 0:54:52 | |
intervention. That is certainly the
fear. I read the same analysis. I | 0:54:52 | 0:54:57 | |
had to surrender my phone to do so
and I found out it was released | 0:54:57 | 0:55:00 | |
publicly a week later. On -- there
are opportunities to deregulate. | 0:55:00 | 0:55:07 | |
Perhaps the Minister can tell us why
they are being the model of what | 0:55:07 | 0:55:10 | |
they might refer to? One only has to
listen to the noises coming from the | 0:55:10 | 0:55:14 | |
US government on issues ranging from
the replacement of the open skies | 0:55:14 | 0:55:19 | |
treaty to the inclusion of any
agriculture in any FTA to get an | 0:55:19 | 0:55:24 | |
indication of how difficult things
could be. That is irrespective of | 0:55:24 | 0:55:29 | |
who occupies the White House. The
prospect of new free-trade | 0:55:29 | 0:55:32 | |
agreements may give the
international trade Secretary | 0:55:32 | 0:55:34 | |
purpose but they would be good for
little else. I want to go back to | 0:55:34 | 0:55:41 | |
the comments he has made about Sir
Martin Donnelly, who I worked with. | 0:55:41 | 0:55:45 | |
A civil servant of extreme mobility
and wisdom. But I think that when he | 0:55:45 | 0:55:49 | |
makes a reference to the bank would
first is the packet of crisps and | 0:55:49 | 0:55:54 | |
knowledge of what he's looking at to
a certain extent are some of the | 0:55:54 | 0:55:57 | |
gravity models used by the Treasury,
where they are looking at the simple | 0:55:57 | 0:56:02 | |
mathematical trade-off between
tariffs with EU and elsewhere. What | 0:56:02 | 0:56:05 | |
is missed in all of this debate is
the ability the UK confine itself at | 0:56:05 | 0:56:11 | |
the centre of a network of trade
deals. For example, a US | 0:56:11 | 0:56:15 | |
manufacturer needs to see the
advantage of moving their | 0:56:15 | 0:56:18 | |
manufacturing operations to the UK
to take advantage of UK Indian trade | 0:56:18 | 0:56:22 | |
deal, for example, where the trade
is better. That is the unknown that | 0:56:22 | 0:56:31 | |
we are struggling to analyse in
order to be able to get the true | 0:56:31 | 0:56:34 | |
comparison between one type of
relationship and the other. I simply | 0:56:34 | 0:56:39 | |
don't think that stacks up. I
listened to Sir Martin's comments | 0:56:39 | 0:56:44 | |
very carefully. If the honourable
gentleman wants to make a longer | 0:56:44 | 0:56:47 | |
speech, I would be very interested
to hear the point he might make. I | 0:56:47 | 0:56:50 | |
am going to make some progress
because there are a lot of people | 0:56:50 | 0:56:53 | |
who want to come in. A sensible,
pragmatic government focused on the | 0:56:53 | 0:56:59 | |
economic welfare of the country
would consider the option of a new | 0:56:59 | 0:57:02 | |
comprehensive customs union along
the lines they -- over suggested. So | 0:57:02 | 0:57:08 | |
would any government committed, as
this government is, to the avoidance | 0:57:08 | 0:57:12 | |
of a hard border on the island of
Ireland, including physical | 0:57:12 | 0:57:17 | |
infrastructure or related checks and
controls. A border that is | 0:57:17 | 0:57:21 | |
frictionless. Not as frictionless as
possible. A border that has checks, | 0:57:21 | 0:57:26 | |
even, and I quote, very minimal
checks, as the Foreign Secretary | 0:57:26 | 0:57:30 | |
suggested to a business audience
last week, is still a border that | 0:57:30 | 0:57:34 | |
would require some kind of
infrastructure and patrols. A | 0:57:34 | 0:57:37 | |
version of the Canada US border, as
the Prime Minister suggested was | 0:57:37 | 0:57:41 | |
being explored, is simply not good
enough. The threat such an outcome | 0:57:41 | 0:57:46 | |
would pose to the economy and
politics of Ireland, as well as the | 0:57:46 | 0:57:51 | |
daily lives of citizens, are obvious
to both members -- members of this | 0:57:51 | 0:57:55 | |
House. We recognise a new
comprehensive customs union in | 0:57:55 | 0:57:59 | |
itself is not a complete solution to
the Irish border issue. To obviate | 0:57:59 | 0:58:03 | |
the need for physical infrastructure
on and checks on the border, and | 0:58:03 | 0:58:09 | |
uphold the Good Friday Agreement in
its entirety on all three stands, | 0:58:09 | 0:58:15 | |
would be required. That alignment
will of course have to be maintained | 0:58:15 | 0:58:18 | |
over time as EU legislation evolved.
That is one of the reasons why we | 0:58:18 | 0:58:24 | |
need to secure a new agreement that
gives us the closest possible | 0:58:24 | 0:58:27 | |
relationship with the single market.
Full access to European single | 0:58:27 | 0:58:34 | |
market -- European markets. No drop
in the standard protections. And no | 0:58:34 | 0:58:40 | |
prospect of falling behind them in
the future. Recognising that our | 0:58:40 | 0:58:44 | |
future economic relationship depends
on a level playing field and the | 0:58:44 | 0:58:47 | |
same standards that business wants.
But when it comes to goods, a | 0:58:47 | 0:58:51 | |
conversation with EU 27 about full
regulatory alignment, and the | 0:58:51 | 0:58:56 | |
institutional mechanisms that may be
required to facilitate them, is not | 0:58:56 | 0:59:00 | |
possible when the government have
ruled out membership of any customs | 0:59:00 | 0:59:05 | |
union. The idea that a comprehensive
system of bejewelled recognition, | 0:59:05 | 0:59:09 | |
something that even EU member states
do not even expect to each other, is | 0:59:09 | 0:59:14 | |
mistaken. There is no solution to
the Irish border issue that does not | 0:59:14 | 0:59:18 | |
involve some kind of customs union.
That is what the government must | 0:59:18 | 0:59:21 | |
reconsider its redline in this area.
If it doesn't, it is difficult to | 0:59:21 | 0:59:26 | |
see what the government's solution
to the Irish border issue, or indeed | 0:59:26 | 0:59:29 | |
the issue of customs at Dover, might
be. This matters, Madam Deputy | 0:59:29 | 0:59:36 | |
Speaker, because while the
government may be able to find some | 0:59:36 | 0:59:39 | |
of the difficult decisions for now,
the issue of the Irish border cannot | 0:59:39 | 0:59:43 | |
be forged. I am coming to a close.
The draft withdrawal agreement | 0:59:43 | 0:59:48 | |
merely needs to include a political
declaration on the future | 0:59:48 | 0:59:50 | |
relationship. That is all. The
details to be hammered out after the | 0:59:50 | 0:59:55 | |
UK has left the EU. The Irish border
issue is an integral part of the | 0:59:55 | 1:00:01 | |
withdrawal agreement. Without a
solution to it, it is difficult to | 1:00:01 | 1:00:05 | |
imagine how the government secures a
transition period or an orderly | 1:00:05 | 1:00:09 | |
exit. Thank you, Madam Debord is
bigger. We now have a time limit of | 1:00:09 | 1:00:15 | |
eight minutes. I am very pleased to
speaking today's debate. I will | 1:00:15 | 1:00:26 | |
focus specifically on the pension
asset management and long-term | 1:00:26 | 1:00:33 | |
savings industry. 24% of people
employed in the UK in the insurance | 1:00:33 | 1:00:38 | |
sector work in Scotland. Many of my
constituency. These industries want | 1:00:38 | 1:00:46 | |
a deal. No deal means banks,
insurance companies and phone | 1:00:46 | 1:00:52 | |
providers could not provide services
across the UK. Contracts for | 1:00:52 | 1:00:58 | |
derivatives would become
unenforceable. They could lose their | 1:00:58 | 1:01:08 | |
licence to do insurance.
Cross-border pension payments from | 1:01:08 | 1:01:12 | |
the UK into the EU and vice versa
could not be paid. It would defy | 1:01:12 | 1:01:17 | |
common sense not to have a Brexit
deal and financial services when the | 1:01:17 | 1:01:21 | |
insurance and savings sectors are so
closely allied and trading services | 1:01:21 | 1:01:26 | |
are vital to both parties. The UK
asset management industry is the | 1:01:26 | 1:01:30 | |
second-largest the world,
managing... Investment funds used by | 1:01:30 | 1:01:35 | |
pension providers are set up under
Irish law and other EU | 1:01:35 | 1:01:41 | |
jurisdictions. That is over 600
billion euros by UK managers in | 1:01:41 | 1:01:52 | |
Ireland on behalf of UK investors.
In no deal Brexit is unacceptable. | 1:01:52 | 1:01:58 | |
The penchant and lifetime savings
Association was more blunt when it | 1:01:58 | 1:02:02 | |
said WTO would cause major
disruption. On no account could be | 1:02:02 | 1:02:04 | |
pension fund industry support a
regime based on WTO rules. It would | 1:02:04 | 1:02:09 | |
because economic harm, regulatory
barriers and undermine pension | 1:02:09 | 1:02:13 | |
support services. That is why the
industry welcomed the Lancaster | 1:02:13 | 1:02:19 | |
House speech. If we leave the single
market, passporting, a central | 1:02:19 | 1:02:27 | |
pillar, will end. There are
currently 336,421 passport held by | 1:02:27 | 1:02:34 | |
UK firms. Many hold multiple
passports from multiple states. | 1:02:34 | 1:02:40 | |
Recently published figures suggests
the UK insurance figure takes £14 | 1:02:40 | 1:02:44 | |
billion of this each year. We need
to start talking about arrangements | 1:02:44 | 1:02:50 | |
with a transitional period for times
to adapt. Primary risk for | 1:02:50 | 1:02:59 | |
institutions... No equivalence
decision has been issued in time. It | 1:02:59 | 1:03:08 | |
will also affect elements of
financial services' infrastructure, | 1:03:08 | 1:03:11 | |
such as access to clearing spaces or
the provision of services to | 1:03:11 | 1:03:14 | |
clients. That must be a priority. At
the end of the day if we want to | 1:03:14 | 1:03:23 | |
remain and enhance this country's
position as a leading global | 1:03:23 | 1:03:27 | |
financial centre, we will need to
regulate it in accordance with the | 1:03:27 | 1:03:32 | |
highest global standards. That is
important not just for UK firms were | 1:03:32 | 1:03:36 | |
third country institutions such as
the US to Hong Kong which cannot | 1:03:36 | 1:03:39 | |
make use of the system and must
establish unauthorised presence in | 1:03:39 | 1:03:44 | |
an EU state. For this reason, many
countries have chosen to base | 1:03:44 | 1:03:48 | |
themselves in London through a UK
subsidiary. We want them to be able | 1:03:48 | 1:03:53 | |
to continue to do so. We also need
to agree success of arrangements for | 1:03:53 | 1:03:58 | |
passporting. Third country
recognition is absolutely vital in | 1:03:58 | 1:04:09 | |
the process for this needs to be
sorted out long before we have left. | 1:04:09 | 1:04:16 | |
A bespoke mutual recognition
agreement which would allow UK | 1:04:16 | 1:04:20 | |
entities to continue to fulfil roles
would be necessary. In terms of | 1:04:20 | 1:04:24 | |
pension schemes themselves, these
are subject to EU legislation as | 1:04:24 | 1:04:28 | |
institutional investors affected by
market regulations, and very | 1:04:28 | 1:04:35 | |
significantly, directly under the
onward placed pension scheme. During | 1:04:35 | 1:04:44 | |
the negotiation of UK were
successful in warding of the threat | 1:04:44 | 1:04:49 | |
of a regime for pensions, which
could have resulted in the bill for | 1:04:49 | 1:04:52 | |
British business up to 650 billion
euros. This remains on the agenda | 1:04:52 | 1:04:58 | |
for the EU pensions regulator
anybody. Everybody knows I would | 1:04:58 | 1:05:00 | |
like the best possible access but...
The worst-case scenario would be for | 1:05:00 | 1:05:15 | |
pension schemes to find themselves
outside of the EU... More broadly, a | 1:05:15 | 1:05:24 | |
good trade deal is vital to the
pensions industry because of its | 1:05:24 | 1:05:27 | |
significance to employers. A bad
Brexit will have huge detrimental | 1:05:27 | 1:05:36 | |
impact to these centres and put
pressures on employers' ability to | 1:05:36 | 1:05:40 | |
fund schemes. Pension schemes need
full access to the global market. So | 1:05:40 | 1:05:48 | |
they can manage their risks. We need
the UK financial services industry | 1:05:48 | 1:05:52 | |
to remain strong and vibrant as it
is today. I have spoken in recent | 1:05:52 | 1:05:58 | |
debates at Westminster Hall. I will
not repeat what I said. I do still | 1:05:58 | 1:06:04 | |
running of the view that the EU
referendum result was decisive was | 1:06:04 | 1:06:12 | |
not overwhelming. I want a Chris
Doak deal. -- a bespoke deal. If we | 1:06:12 | 1:06:20 | |
need a plan B it cannot be to crash
out on WTO terms. I believe the | 1:06:20 | 1:06:26 | |
Prime Minister should have the
maximum flexibility. She needs to do | 1:06:26 | 1:06:29 | |
the right deal and not be hemmed in
by individuals and groups. | 1:06:29 | 1:06:36 | |
Are they dancing in Clarkston at the
thought of Britain leaving the EU, | 1:06:36 | 1:06:41 | |
no. But they are not taking to their
beds. They need practical solutions | 1:06:41 | 1:06:47 | |
to be put forward. Pragmatism is
needed. This is a negotiation, but I | 1:06:47 | 1:06:58 | |
hope the EU will engage the
suggestions and we can at last move | 1:06:58 | 1:07:02 | |
forward at pace. I'm glad the House
is much better behaved today than | 1:07:02 | 1:07:13 | |
yesterday, we are being observed
this afternoon by our colleagues and | 1:07:13 | 1:07:17 | |
friends from the Parliament of
Afghanistan, who I'm delighted to | 1:07:17 | 1:07:22 | |
welcome to Westminster and I hope
that they will find our | 1:07:22 | 1:07:30 | |
deliberations about Europe
inlightening. -- enlightening. Thank | 1:07:30 | 1:07:33 | |
you. I would like to add our welcome
to our colleague and friends from | 1:07:33 | 1:07:39 | |
Afghanistan as well. I will reflect
that we have another European union | 1:07:39 | 1:07:47 | |
debate and I hop you don't mind me
saying I was elected almost three | 1:07:47 | 1:07:51 | |
years ago and after being appointed
Europe spokesman, the referendum | 1:07:51 | 1:07:56 | |
bill came through. So it has
dominated by time here. But that is | 1:07:56 | 1:08:00 | |
because it is important. Actually
almost three years on, I think it is | 1:08:00 | 1:08:05 | |
fairly safe to say that things are
not going terribly well for the | 1:08:05 | 1:08:10 | |
Government. The EU has brought us a
huge number of benefits and I'm | 1:08:10 | 1:08:17 | |
somebody who has enjoyed some of
those benefits to education and the | 1:08:17 | 1:08:22 | |
abscess from education, regardless
of background and financial means | 1:08:22 | 1:08:27 | |
from freedom of movement which we
benefit from terms of being able to | 1:08:27 | 1:08:31 | |
work and live throughout the EU and
our economy benefit, because of | 1:08:31 | 1:08:36 | |
benefits of people coming to the
United Kingdom to live and work as | 1:08:36 | 1:08:39 | |
well. The member for East
Renfrewshire was right in his speech | 1:08:39 | 1:08:45 | |
to highlight some of the
difficulties that financial services | 1:08:45 | 1:08:50 | |
face in his constituency with this.
Actually, this is something I'm | 1:08:50 | 1:08:54 | |
approached about regularly in my own
constituency. Issues where we still | 1:08:54 | 1:08:59 | |
don't have an answer on areas such
as seasonal workers and the food and | 1:08:59 | 1:09:06 | |
drink industry that relies on
seasonal workers and from freedom of | 1:09:06 | 1:09:09 | |
movement. We have had no clear
answers from the Government. This is | 1:09:09 | 1:09:14 | |
important now, because what we are
seeing is with some farmers have | 1:09:14 | 1:09:18 | |
told me a decline in seasonal
workers. What does it mean for crops | 1:09:18 | 1:09:22 | |
planted in advance for the following
years. Many of which need to be | 1:09:22 | 1:09:26 | |
taken by hand. Business decisions
need to be made now for after we | 1:09:26 | 1:09:31 | |
have left the EU. And there is
precious little certainty, precious | 1:09:31 | 1:09:37 | |
little decision-making about what is
going to happen after 29th March | 1:09:37 | 1:09:40 | |
next year. Crucially, in the harvest
period after that as well. There is | 1:09:40 | 1:09:47 | |
the tourist sector that relies on
those seasonal workers and on | 1:09:47 | 1:09:53 | |
freedom of movement. Higher
education and research and we must | 1:09:53 | 1:09:59 | |
reflect on the fact that our centres
of education rely on the excellence | 1:09:59 | 1:10:04 | |
it has brought by being able to tap
into a pool and to be able to tap | 1:10:04 | 1:10:10 | |
into freedom of movement and the
benefits that brings, as well as the | 1:10:10 | 1:10:16 | |
benefits brought by horizon 2020 and
the other means that are so | 1:10:16 | 1:10:19 | |
important. The biggest employer in
my constituency is the University of | 1:10:19 | 1:10:26 | |
St Andrews. A great deal of people
work at universities in the area. It | 1:10:26 | 1:10:32 | |
is a big industry. It is a big
employer. Actually, not only is | 1:10:32 | 1:10:36 | |
this, are these jobs at the moment
and that is important, not only are | 1:10:36 | 1:10:43 | |
they learning establishments where
young people and mature students can | 1:10:43 | 1:10:46 | |
grow and improve our economy, but it
is somewhere that benefits us in the | 1:10:46 | 1:10:50 | |
years to come as we get those break
throughs on issues like dementia, | 1:10:50 | 1:10:59 | |
dyslexia and helping children have a
better educational experience | 1:10:59 | 1:11:04 | |
through research done. I will give
way. I'm grateful. Does he agree | 1:11:04 | 1:11:10 | |
that it is extraordinary to see a
Government so proudly leading the | 1:11:10 | 1:11:15 | |
country into a situation where we
are all going to be so much poorer | 1:11:15 | 1:11:19 | |
and poorer not just economically,
but in the terms he is describing, | 1:11:19 | 1:11:23 | |
in terms of richness of the
relationship we have with other | 1:11:23 | 1:11:27 | |
countries in research and elsewhere
is important and it will be the | 1:11:27 | 1:11:30 | |
young people, it is their futures
that are being closed down in the | 1:11:30 | 1:11:35 | |
most unforgiveable way. As usual the
members makes an excellent and power | 1:11:35 | 1:11:40 | |
point and the benches opposite would
do well to listen to. The benches | 1:11:40 | 1:11:44 | |
beside her would do well to listen
to her. She makes a good point. I | 1:11:44 | 1:11:48 | |
want to touch upon that point and
the finances which she brought up. | 1:11:48 | 1:11:53 | |
Before I do, I want to talk about
the broader impact on public | 1:11:53 | 1:11:58 | |
services. On areas like access to
the single market which is so | 1:11:58 | 1:12:02 | |
important in term of decreasing red
tape. We hear a lot about red tape. | 1:12:02 | 1:12:07 | |
But a bg access to the single market
has reduced red tape. The impact on | 1:12:07 | 1:12:14 | |
services. Think about our doctors
and nurses who come from throughout | 1:12:14 | 1:12:19 | |
the EU. Dentists as well. It can
difficult to get a dentist. There is | 1:12:19 | 1:12:32 | |
one in Glenrothes made up of EU
nationals. The European Medicines | 1:12:32 | 1:12:38 | |
Agency which is based in London and
will be taken away and take jobs | 1:12:38 | 1:12:42 | |
with it. That is also important.
What about cash for public services. | 1:12:42 | 1:12:48 | |
The honourable lady raised. Now,
right now the UK Government is | 1:12:48 | 1:12:55 | |
talking of finding common ground
between the UK and the Scottish | 1:12:55 | 1:12:58 | |
Government. There is within area
where there is common ground and the | 1:12:58 | 1:13:05 | |
minister's right to look up at that
point. But that is in point that the | 1:13:05 | 1:13:09 | |
Scottish Government and the UK
Government agree in their analysis | 1:13:09 | 1:13:13 | |
that this will be devastating for
the economies of both Scotland and | 1:13:13 | 1:13:19 | |
the United Kingdom. The Scottish
Government figures and we were told | 1:13:19 | 1:13:24 | |
that the Scottish Government figures
were not right until the UK | 1:13:24 | 1:13:31 | |
Government figures agreed with the
Scottish figures. For every 1% hit | 1:13:31 | 1:13:35 | |
on our GDP will be devastating in
every scenario that has been set | 1:13:35 | 1:13:40 | |
out. It has been put that every 1%
reduction in GDP could hit tax by 8 | 1:13:40 | 1:13:50 | |
billion. That doesn't even start to
address the amount of money that we | 1:13:50 | 1:13:54 | |
are having to shell out just to
leave the EU and reports of 40 | 1:13:54 | 1:13:59 | |
billion pounds and the Chancellor
preparing to leave the EU with | 1:13:59 | 1:14:08 | |
initial costs of three billion
pounds. Now, the financial times | 1:14:08 | 1:14:23 | |
estimate Brexit is costing us a lot.
Now if you have less money in GDP | 1:14:23 | 1:14:29 | |
and less in the tax take, you have
less money to spend on public | 1:14:29 | 1:14:35 | |
services. That is a basic. Now, in
Scotland at the moment and there are | 1:14:35 | 1:14:43 | |
legitimate points on this, the
Scottish Government has made changes | 1:14:43 | 1:14:46 | |
in tax where the majority are no
worse off or better off, but there | 1:14:46 | 1:14:50 | |
are changes in tax that will raise
an additional 164 million. I think | 1:14:50 | 1:14:56 | |
that is welcome. Because that is
only a drop in the ocean of the | 1:14:56 | 1:15:05 | |
amount of money that we will need to
try and save our public services | 1:15:05 | 1:15:09 | |
from the hits that are coming their
way and I would be delighted to hear | 1:15:09 | 1:15:14 | |
if anybody can tell me how they're
going to plug the gap in public | 1:15:14 | 1:15:19 | |
services. Would anybody like to
offer an intervention? I didn't | 1:15:19 | 1:15:24 | |
think so. Well go on. I'm grateful
to the member. The whole premise of | 1:15:24 | 1:15:31 | |
what he is saying is based on
figures which do not take into | 1:15:31 | 1:15:37 | |
account at all what the Prime
Minister has set out to achieve, | 1:15:37 | 1:15:40 | |
which is a special and deep
partnership with the EU. The figures | 1:15:40 | 1:15:44 | |
you quote are the same figures that
members campaigned on in the | 1:15:44 | 1:15:50 | |
referendum and when you predicted
there would be recession and the | 1:15:50 | 1:15:53 | |
economy would fall off a cliff. You
were false prophets then and are | 1:15:53 | 1:15:58 | |
now. Can I salute the member's
courage in bringing that up. I | 1:15:58 | 1:16:04 | |
salute his courage, but I'm using
his own Government's figures and I'm | 1:16:04 | 1:16:09 | |
using his own Government's figures
and I would like to make progress. I | 1:16:09 | 1:16:15 | |
would like to make progress. I will
come to the the honourable lady as | 1:16:15 | 1:16:18 | |
well. I'm using his own Government's
figures. And I think we need to have | 1:16:18 | 1:16:22 | |
a real and proper debate about how
we plug the gap in tax and how we | 1:16:22 | 1:16:28 | |
plug that gap in GDP. I will give
way. Thank you. He has gone law | 1:16:28 | 1:16:36 | |
methodical process of working out
the effect of GDP on Brexit. Has he | 1:16:36 | 1:16:41 | |
worked out the effect of an empty
Tory slogan? Well we have worked the | 1:16:41 | 1:16:48 | |
impact on the NHS, on education and
that will be devastating to our | 1:16:48 | 1:16:52 | |
public services, because of these
empty promises that were made that | 1:16:52 | 1:16:56 | |
each of us will pay for and I will
make a bit of progress. Another | 1:16:56 | 1:17:03 | |
issue and there are issues around
tax raised and GDP that we must | 1:17:03 | 1:17:10 | |
wrestle with in a serious manner.
Offering some suggestions. But right | 1:17:10 | 1:17:16 | |
now, the Government is not handling
some of the big issues. Time that | 1:17:16 | 1:17:21 | |
has been taken up with this issue is
strangling political debate as well. | 1:17:21 | 1:17:26 | |
The strikes in our Universities now
is a crucial issue for all parties. | 1:17:26 | 1:17:32 | |
The strikes in universities is
something we must take seriously. | 1:17:32 | 1:17:35 | |
Yet it is something as we look for a
fair solution to that and I will | 1:17:35 | 1:17:39 | |
make this point before I come to the
the honourable lady, that cannot be | 1:17:39 | 1:17:44 | |
a priority, because this Government
is so consumed by Brexit and what is | 1:17:44 | 1:17:47 | |
going on with leaving the EU that
other issues simply get ignored and | 1:17:47 | 1:17:53 | |
it strangles that proper and serious
debate. I will give way. I'm | 1:17:53 | 1:17:58 | |
grateful. I didn't want the
impression to be given to the House | 1:17:58 | 1:18:04 | |
that the recent figures published by
the... Brexit committee were the | 1:18:04 | 1:18:10 | |
same as the figures that were used
pre-referendum. Two totally | 1:18:10 | 1:18:15 | |
different economic models were used
and it would be wrong for the record | 1:18:15 | 1:18:19 | |
in this House to suggest that the
figures used before the referendum | 1:18:19 | 1:18:22 | |
were the same as the once after.
Thank you. The honourable lady once | 1:18:22 | 1:18:28 | |
again and I know the differences I
sometimes have with her, but she | 1:18:28 | 1:18:33 | |
makes an honest point and I note the
correction from the members from her | 1:18:33 | 1:18:40 | |
benches who have been avoiding the
figures from her own government. The | 1:18:40 | 1:18:43 | |
member for Greenwich and I welcome
his remarks, I hope he will go to | 1:18:43 | 1:18:47 | |
the next step on the the single
market. I note his remarks on | 1:18:47 | 1:18:52 | |
Northern Ireland and I am grateful
for those. Because Northern Ireland | 1:18:52 | 1:18:56 | |
is one area that has been
overlooked. The danger to the peace | 1:18:56 | 1:19:00 | |
process is not something what any of
us should take lightly, regardless | 1:19:00 | 1:19:04 | |
of views different members have and
is something that we have to take | 1:19:04 | 1:19:08 | |
seriously. I know colleagues and my
honourable friends will talk about | 1:19:08 | 1:19:15 | |
the continuity bill in Holyrood. But
this is in Holyrood we find the | 1:19:15 | 1:19:20 | |
Conservatives utterly isolated in
their latest power-grab. When | 1:19:20 | 1:19:24 | |
challenged on this, they say that we
have to choose between the UK and | 1:19:24 | 1:19:31 | |
the EU. That is nonsense and
highlights the isolationism that is | 1:19:31 | 1:19:38 | |
at the heart of many of the members
opposite who reach out for this | 1:19:38 | 1:19:44 | |
ourselves alone approach. To in
conclusion we to look at where we | 1:19:44 | 1:19:51 | |
can make progress. There is one
silver lining and I pay credit to | 1:19:51 | 1:19:55 | |
members, I think in my short
experience I have seen members from | 1:19:55 | 1:20:00 | |
across this House seeking to work
together better than they have done | 1:20:00 | 1:20:03 | |
before and I know that where members
are trying it is not always easy to | 1:20:03 | 1:20:07 | |
put their differences aside and find
a way through this and I pay due and | 1:20:07 | 1:20:11 | |
I salute a number of members who
have been able to do this. If I | 1:20:11 | 1:20:15 | |
offer my own suggestion, which is
Scotland voted to remain part of EU. | 1:20:15 | 1:20:20 | |
And I note that is something that
has been noted by members in the | 1:20:20 | 1:20:24 | |
House and by members of Parliament
from across the European Union. What | 1:20:24 | 1:20:29 | |
I would suggested is bridges need to
be built with our European partners, | 1:20:29 | 1:20:35 | |
this has been a shock to the system
and that is important. We need to | 1:20:35 | 1:20:39 | |
build our economic ties. We would
like to see sup -- support for | 1:20:39 | 1:20:47 | |
immigration. But I think Scotland
stands ready to try and rebuild | 1:20:47 | 1:20:52 | |
ties. Our economic ties with the
rest of the United Kingdom are | 1:20:52 | 1:20:57 | |
important, but they're important
with the single market and the rest | 1:20:57 | 1:21:01 | |
of the EU. I would appeal to members
look look at your own figures and | 1:21:01 | 1:21:07 | |
the damage that has been done, reach
ouft to the devolved administrations | 1:21:07 | 1:21:11 | |
and other governments. This will hit
our public services and when you see | 1:21:11 | 1:21:15 | |
people switching off this debate,
they will not switch off when it | 1:21:15 | 1:21:19 | |
comes to a hit to the NHS and in
term of personnel and cash. A hit to | 1:21:19 | 1:21:24 | |
education and to other services as
well. We have devolution in the | 1:21:24 | 1:21:30 | |
United Kingdom, we should use it. | 1:21:30 | 1:21:38 | |
As the member of the Glasgow Central
pointed out earlier, it is | 1:21:38 | 1:21:42 | |
international ask a question day. My
question to the government is, do | 1:21:42 | 1:21:46 | |
you know what you are doing, and our
yorker of the devastating damage you | 1:21:46 | 1:21:50 | |
are doing?
-- are you aware. I welcome the | 1:21:50 | 1:21:58 | |
opportunity to speak. I would like
to start by responding to the | 1:21:58 | 1:22:00 | |
honourable member who mentioned that
62% of the people in Scotland voted | 1:22:00 | 1:22:05 | |
to remain in the EU. What they
ordered her was for the UK to remain | 1:22:05 | 1:22:11 | |
in the EU. They did not vote for an
independent Scotland to remain in | 1:22:11 | 1:22:17 | |
the EU. As I said before, a majority
in my constituency out act -- | 1:22:17 | 1:22:23 | |
actually did vote for the UK to
leave the European Union, based on | 1:22:23 | 1:22:27 | |
research conducted by the University
of East Anglia. It found 54% of | 1:22:27 | 1:22:34 | |
voters voted Leave in my
constituency. This should come as no | 1:22:34 | 1:22:38 | |
surprise when you consider my
constituency is home to fishing | 1:22:38 | 1:22:43 | |
communities and active ports. Around
50 per -- 54% of fisheries coming | 1:22:43 | 1:22:52 | |
through my constituency. 92% of
British fishermen planned to vote | 1:22:52 | 1:22:56 | |
leave. 68% of that sample was made
of Scottish fishermen. Fishing | 1:22:56 | 1:23:02 | |
communities in the UK have suffered
for decades under the Common | 1:23:02 | 1:23:06 | |
fisheries policy. This is an
historic run which would be put | 1:23:06 | 1:23:09 | |
right. We owe that to all fishing
communities. When we leave the EU, | 1:23:09 | 1:23:15 | |
we leave the common fisheries policy
and the common independent coastal | 1:23:15 | 1:23:20 | |
state. We must not weaken our hand
in the future by bargaining away | 1:23:20 | 1:23:24 | |
access to our exclusive economic
zone as part of a long term trade | 1:23:24 | 1:23:28 | |
deal with the EU. When it comes to
reciprocal access, compared to the | 1:23:28 | 1:23:34 | |
100,000 tonnes of fish brought into
EU waters by UK bus. British | 1:23:34 | 1:23:42 | |
fishermen catch only 40% of fish.
Compare that with 84% by Norwegian | 1:23:42 | 1:23:47 | |
vessels in their waters and
Icelandic vessels catch 95%. It is | 1:23:47 | 1:23:52 | |
not just the fishermen who wanted to
leave the EU. A survey of Scottish | 1:23:52 | 1:23:56 | |
farmers found that two thirds third
World Italy. The National Farmers' | 1:23:56 | 1:24:00 | |
Union of Scotland believe the result
may have been closer to 50-50. A | 1:24:00 | 1:24:05 | |
great many Scottish farmers will be
glad to see the back of the EU and | 1:24:05 | 1:24:09 | |
the the Common Agricultural Policy.
A policy which was designed to work | 1:24:09 | 1:24:14 | |
in a common way from the Arctic
Circle in the north to the | 1:24:14 | 1:24:18 | |
Mediterranean lead to an
overcomplicated, bureaucratic, one | 1:24:18 | 1:24:21 | |
size fits non-system. The food
industry in Scotland is to big to | 1:24:21 | 1:24:27 | |
neglect. These are important to UK
exports. I'm encouraged by the UK | 1:24:27 | 1:24:38 | |
government's commitment... Many
members of the seafood processing | 1:24:38 | 1:24:42 | |
company would like something similar
to be done to match the funding | 1:24:42 | 1:24:44 | |
which comes from the European
fisheries fund. One impact of Brexit | 1:24:44 | 1:24:50 | |
weather is concerned from farmers
and fishermen. -- which... Is the | 1:24:50 | 1:25:02 | |
supplementation of the workforce.
Long-term these industries must be | 1:25:02 | 1:25:08 | |
made sustainable with local labour
but that will not happen overnight. | 1:25:08 | 1:25:12 | |
An interim period will need a
stopgap. This was already an issue | 1:25:12 | 1:25:17 | |
before Brexit. There is not an
infinite supply of EU labour for | 1:25:17 | 1:25:22 | |
these industries. What is crucial is
that after we leave the EU we will | 1:25:22 | 1:25:26 | |
take back control of our borders,
laws, money and water. | 1:25:26 | 1:25:36 | |
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Can
I apologise for not being present | 1:25:36 | 1:25:39 | |
for the conclusion of the debate
tomorrow? We should be grateful we | 1:25:39 | 1:25:44 | |
have the opportunity over two days
to discuss European affairs. But it | 1:25:44 | 1:25:47 | |
is a reminder there is one thing
ministers don't want us to be doing | 1:25:47 | 1:25:52 | |
over two days, which is voting on
any amendments to keep us in the | 1:25:52 | 1:25:56 | |
Customs Union. This will definitely
be remembered as the Brexit | 1:25:56 | 1:25:59 | |
Parliament. It is undoubtedly the
backbenchers' parliament. It is | 1:25:59 | 1:26:05 | |
running the risk of becoming the
vocalist Parliament because business | 1:26:05 | 1:26:08 | |
managers are scrambling around to
fill their time with anything other | 1:26:08 | 1:26:12 | |
than votes on important matters. I
would say to ministers that you | 1:26:12 | 1:26:16 | |
cannot put those votes of
permanently. One of the reasons why | 1:26:16 | 1:26:20 | |
there is so much support was alluded
to by my honourable friend in his | 1:26:20 | 1:26:24 | |
excellent speech opening for our
side, and that is it would provide | 1:26:24 | 1:26:28 | |
part of the solution to the problem
of the border between the Republic | 1:26:28 | 1:26:34 | |
of Ireland and Northern Ireland. The
truth is the House divides into two | 1:26:34 | 1:26:40 | |
camps on the border. There is one
view which says it is all right, | 1:26:40 | 1:26:44 | |
there will be a technological
solution which we will get round. | 1:26:44 | 1:26:46 | |
The incompatibility --
incompatibility between the policy | 1:26:46 | 1:26:50 | |
government has adopted. No checks,
no infrastructure, open border. And | 1:26:50 | 1:27:00 | |
the second view, which I share, is
that we cannot currently see how you | 1:27:00 | 1:27:03 | |
can resolve those two
contradictions. We have been taking | 1:27:03 | 1:27:08 | |
evidence in the select committee. We
have been looking at free-trade | 1:27:08 | 1:27:11 | |
agreements all over the world. Every
single one of them involves some | 1:27:11 | 1:27:16 | |
checks on some goods, it doesn't
matter if it is Norway, Sweden, or | 1:27:16 | 1:27:21 | |
Canada and the US. Even the much
quoted but clearly little red | 1:27:21 | 1:27:25 | |
European Parliament report
acknowledges, even with the most | 1:27:25 | 1:27:32 | |
up-to-date technology, there would
still need to be physical | 1:27:32 | 1:27:34 | |
infrastructure. That is not
compatible with maintaining an open | 1:27:34 | 1:27:40 | |
border. Now of course the government
published its documents last summer. | 1:27:40 | 1:27:46 | |
We should explore all of the
options. While I recognise a | 1:27:46 | 1:27:52 | |
suspension of belief is essential to
the magician's art, it is not a | 1:27:52 | 1:27:56 | |
strong foundation for government
policy. Although we are none the | 1:27:56 | 1:27:59 | |
wiser about what is going to happen
in Northern Ireland, we did learn in | 1:27:59 | 1:28:04 | |
fairness a bit more about the Prime
Minister's approach in her Mansion | 1:28:04 | 1:28:08 | |
House speech. Despite the advance
briefing about ambitious managed | 1:28:08 | 1:28:12 | |
divergence, which I hope has
disappeared into the dustbin of | 1:28:12 | 1:28:15 | |
history, the Prime Minister did
speak about maintaining regulatory | 1:28:15 | 1:28:18 | |
alignment. The other thing that was
striking about that speech was the | 1:28:18 | 1:28:24 | |
frankness with which she
acknowledged that we will inevitably | 1:28:24 | 1:28:28 | |
have less access to our market. It
has taken a long time to get to this | 1:28:28 | 1:28:37 | |
point of realism. The cry for many
months from the Secretary of | 1:28:37 | 1:28:47 | |
State... That truth, we will have
Lex access, was the reason the pound | 1:28:47 | 1:28:50 | |
fell after the referendum. It is why
the UK has gone from being one of | 1:28:50 | 1:28:55 | |
the fastest-growing economies to the
slowest, which has just been | 1:28:55 | 1:28:58 | |
confirmed. The question remains for
the House. What is the right | 1:28:58 | 1:29:02 | |
approach to manage the risks of
damage to the British economy as the | 1:29:02 | 1:29:08 | |
process unfolds? I think we all
agree that continuing tariff free | 1:29:08 | 1:29:12 | |
trade is essential. I simply say,
the most effective way of achieving | 1:29:12 | 1:29:18 | |
that would be to remain in a customs
union with the European Union. We | 1:29:18 | 1:29:21 | |
have heard from the minister, 44% of
our exports go to this market. 17% | 1:29:21 | 1:29:27 | |
go to countries with whom we have
trade agreement. It would be great | 1:29:27 | 1:29:31 | |
if in responding the Minister could
confirm how the government is | 1:29:31 | 1:29:34 | |
getting on with ensuring that those
agreements will roll on during the | 1:29:34 | 1:29:39 | |
transition period, so that
businesses know the terms on which | 1:29:39 | 1:29:42 | |
they will trade. I will give way. On
the issue of businesses, companies | 1:29:42 | 1:29:50 | |
like Jaguar Land Rover in my
constituency don't know where they | 1:29:50 | 1:29:53 | |
are in relation to regulation of
central development. My honourable | 1:29:53 | 1:30:02 | |
friend is absolutely right. That is
one of a whole host of examples that | 1:30:02 | 1:30:05 | |
members on all sides of the House
are aware of from businesses in our | 1:30:05 | 1:30:10 | |
constituencies, where they are
asking, how will it work? At the | 1:30:10 | 1:30:13 | |
moment we do not know. Staying in
the Customs Union is what the CBI | 1:30:13 | 1:30:17 | |
wants. Government policy on
International trade is one of my | 1:30:17 | 1:30:24 | |
Korber is. Given the fondness for
purity tariffs, the clear desire of | 1:30:24 | 1:30:34 | |
the UK administration to open up our
agriculture, do really think that a | 1:30:34 | 1:30:38 | |
trade agreement with the US is going
to happen any time soon? Do we | 1:30:38 | 1:30:43 | |
really think we're to get a trade
deal with India before we get more | 1:30:43 | 1:30:47 | |
visas to their citizens? The idea,
the minister is not in his place, | 1:30:47 | 1:30:53 | |
the idea that somehow being in the
European Union has stopped us | 1:30:53 | 1:30:56 | |
trading with the rest of the world
is a nonsense. It is a nonsense. If | 1:30:56 | 1:31:00 | |
that were the case, how come our
largest single trading partner in | 1:31:00 | 1:31:05 | |
the world is a country with whom we
do not have a trade agreement? The | 1:31:05 | 1:31:09 | |
United States of America. Why is it
that our trade with China has | 1:31:09 | 1:31:11 | |
increased by 64% since 2010, and
China is now our fifth largest | 1:31:11 | 1:31:19 | |
trading partner? Having said that, I
do think there are areas in which | 1:31:19 | 1:31:24 | |
the European Union needs to show
greater flexibility in negotiations. | 1:31:24 | 1:31:29 | |
It has done in particular and
different special deals for its | 1:31:29 | 1:31:33 | |
external partners, for Canada, for
Norway, for the UK, Switzerland and | 1:31:33 | 1:31:36 | |
Turkey. If you take the example of
continued participation in EU | 1:31:36 | 1:31:42 | |
agencies, which are very to business
and trade, the Prime Minister | 1:31:42 | 1:31:48 | |
referred to examples of the aviation
is the organisation, the chemicals | 1:31:48 | 1:31:53 | |
agency. I think the EU response,
which was basically to say, no, you | 1:31:53 | 1:31:57 | |
can't take part, was spectacularly
ill judged. And I think we should | 1:31:57 | 1:32:04 | |
say to all of those we speak to, you
could have said, let's sit down and | 1:32:04 | 1:32:08 | |
talk about how we can do this, but
you will have to pay, you will have | 1:32:08 | 1:32:12 | |
to abide by the rules, you will have
to accept judgments of the European | 1:32:12 | 1:32:17 | |
Court of Justice. That should not be
a problem for the Prime Minister, in | 1:32:17 | 1:32:23 | |
a speech on security in Munich, said
in order to maintain co-operation on | 1:32:23 | 1:32:28 | |
security, we would accept the remit
of the ECJ. That is another example | 1:32:28 | 1:32:34 | |
of reality beginning to dawn of the
red lines of the government policy. | 1:32:34 | 1:32:37 | |
On that point of the gulf between
what was promised and what we are | 1:32:37 | 1:32:42 | |
seeing being delivered economically
and on the issue of Northern | 1:32:42 | 1:32:45 | |
Ireland, would he be willing to keep
an open mind at least on the merits | 1:32:45 | 1:32:48 | |
and wisdom of the people having a
say on the Brexit deal? Although | 1:32:48 | 1:32:53 | |
tempted by the Honourable member's
intervention... The third issue I | 1:32:53 | 1:33:06 | |
want to touch on is that of timing.
Although we are two thirds through | 1:33:06 | 1:33:11 | |
the withdrawal process, we have not
even begun to start negotiating our | 1:33:11 | 1:33:16 | |
future relationship. For a deal
which is meant to stand us in good | 1:33:16 | 1:33:19 | |
stead for decades to come macro and
is not something that can be done in | 1:33:19 | 1:33:23 | |
a hurry. So I make a plea for
flexibility, both in the remainder | 1:33:23 | 1:33:28 | |
of the Article 50 period and in the
transition period when the bulk of | 1:33:28 | 1:33:35 | |
the negotiation will be done. The
last thing I wanted to touch on, | 1:33:35 | 1:33:37 | |
since this is a debate on European
affairs, is some of the broader | 1:33:37 | 1:33:42 | |
challenges we face in Europe and
Britain's contribution to addressing | 1:33:42 | 1:33:46 | |
those at a time when so much of our
effort and energy and time is being | 1:33:46 | 1:33:50 | |
put into dealing with the
consequences of Brexit. Take the | 1:33:50 | 1:33:55 | |
nerve attack in Salisbury. This is
exactly the kind of circumstance in | 1:33:55 | 1:33:58 | |
which we need a multilateral
response. The Prime Minister spoke | 1:33:58 | 1:34:02 | |
about that the other day. In the
case of Europe we knew the closest | 1:34:02 | 1:34:06 | |
possible cooperation. Yet this is
also the moment when we are | 1:34:06 | 1:34:10 | |
undermining that cooperation, that
relationship, because of Brexit. | 1:34:10 | 1:34:15 | |
Then in the hope of rebuilding it. I
accept that is what the Prime | 1:34:15 | 1:34:18 | |
Minister said she wants to do. In
truth, the use of that nerve agent | 1:34:18 | 1:34:24 | |
is exactly the reason why we do need
to conclude swiftly and agreement of | 1:34:24 | 1:34:29 | |
defence, security, foreign policy,
fight against terrorism and | 1:34:29 | 1:34:32 | |
cooperation with the other member
states. There are so many other | 1:34:32 | 1:34:35 | |
things we should be turning our
attention to. How can we sustain | 1:34:35 | 1:34:38 | |
strong economies in Europe? How will
we respond to a wave of nostalgia | 1:34:38 | 1:34:43 | |
for an age gone by that informed
much of the support for some | 1:34:43 | 1:34:48 | |
political parties and movements
right across Europe, as they try to | 1:34:48 | 1:34:52 | |
come macro to terms with an age of
change? When you look at the | 1:34:52 | 1:35:02 | |
Mediterranean, and the challenges
North African countries face, when | 1:35:02 | 1:35:07 | |
you think of climate change, the
people who will drought are downpour | 1:35:07 | 1:35:10 | |
forces them to do so, never mind
people in the end killing each other | 1:35:10 | 1:35:14 | |
not because of the different
political views, but they are | 1:35:14 | 1:35:18 | |
fighting over natural resources,
including water... The onward march | 1:35:18 | 1:35:24 | |
of technology, the challenges and
the fantastic opportunities that | 1:35:24 | 1:35:27 | |
will create. Therefore, while we
wrestle with what is a desire for | 1:35:27 | 1:35:32 | |
greater self-determination and
control, we cannot lose faith in the | 1:35:32 | 1:35:36 | |
multilateral institutions, the
European Union, the UN and others, | 1:35:36 | 1:35:41 | |
that we created in order to give
ourselves a better chance of dealing | 1:35:41 | 1:35:46 | |
with those challenges. If we have
learnt one thing from the last 100 | 1:35:46 | 1:35:51 | |
years, never mind the last thousand,
it is that in order to look after | 1:35:51 | 1:35:55 | |
ourselves we have to look after
others. To do that successfully, we | 1:35:55 | 1:35:59 | |
have to learn to work together. | 1:35:59 | 1:36:08 | |
It is always a pleasure to follow
from the member. I would pick up the | 1:36:08 | 1:36:14 | |
on the points and using multilateral
institutions. But I fear the failure | 1:36:14 | 1:36:18 | |
of Europe to act in an appropriately
tough way after the murder of | 1:36:18 | 1:36:25 | |
Alexander Litvinenko may well have
led the Russian state to think they | 1:36:25 | 1:36:29 | |
could have another go here. I note
in particular, I would have argued | 1:36:29 | 1:36:35 | |
for sanctions to be applied,
particularly in relation to its gas | 1:36:35 | 1:36:41 | |
exports. That would have had a big
impact. I support his calls and the | 1:36:41 | 1:36:49 | |
solidarity shown by Europe. But I
would ask they go further than that | 1:36:49 | 1:36:53 | |
and be willing to look at strict
measures against the Russian state. | 1:36:53 | 1:36:59 | |
I would like to address my remarks
not so much on the importance of our | 1:36:59 | 1:37:05 | |
trade in goods, but our trade in
services. I think that is an area | 1:37:05 | 1:37:12 | |
that has been underrepresented in
many of the debates that we have had | 1:37:12 | 1:37:16 | |
on Europe. Particularly in the light
of the rather aggressive statements | 1:37:16 | 1:37:21 | |
by President Trump in the last few
days. Services are vital and | 1:37:21 | 1:37:29 | |
constitute almost 80% of our UK GDP
and 80% of UK jobs and 45% of our | 1:37:29 | 1:37:36 | |
exports. A large part of our service
exports go to Europe. In fact this | 1:37:36 | 1:37:43 | |
trade is worth £90 million a year
and it is more than the Government | 1:37:43 | 1:37:49 | |
spends on transport, housing, the
environment, industry, employment | 1:37:49 | 1:37:53 | |
and agriculture combined. When you
see it in those terms you understand | 1:37:53 | 1:37:57 | |
the importance of recognising a deal
in the service sector. It is not | 1:37:57 | 1:38:05 | |
just financial services, it includes
insurance, legal, cultural and | 1:38:05 | 1:38:10 | |
digital services. I welcome the
Prime Minister's commitment to an | 1:38:10 | 1:38:14 | |
ambitious and comprehensive deal.
This deal is essential as it will | 1:38:14 | 1:38:19 | |
have to cover a range of different
sectors, including the service | 1:38:19 | 1:38:23 | |
sectors with tha -- with their
different needs. I would encourage | 1:38:23 | 1:38:31 | |
ministers to be bold and I note the
Treasury, or the exit analysis that | 1:38:31 | 1:38:37 | |
was produced by a number of
Government departments using the | 1:38:37 | 1:38:42 | |
most up-to-date economic model and
the real threat shown to UK PLC is | 1:38:42 | 1:38:49 | |
from non-tariff barriers. While we
can have a debate on the customs | 1:38:49 | 1:38:53 | |
union, I would argue it is the
non-tariff barriers that create the | 1:38:53 | 1:38:59 | |
biggest threat to the economy. She
is right to raise non-tariff | 1:38:59 | 1:39:05 | |
barriers, because the WTO identified
there were 300 barrier that has | 1:39:05 | 1:39:11 | |
risen to 1,200. Don't you think
Britain can be anned an advocate in | 1:39:11 | 1:39:22 | |
the WTO and drive this. There is
nothing to prevent us doing that and | 1:39:22 | 1:39:28 | |
the tariffs have increased while we
remain a member of the WTO, although | 1:39:28 | 1:39:33 | |
we are a member of Europe. That is a
real and significant danger to the | 1:39:33 | 1:39:39 | |
UK economy, I would hope we would be
looking at sectors such as the three | 1:39:39 | 1:39:43 | |
that I would like to try and
mention, digital, insurance and | 1:39:43 | 1:39:47 | |
legal. The digital sectors cover a
huge range of industries and not | 1:39:47 | 1:39:53 | |
just new tech businesses, but a wide
range of services for many companies | 1:39:53 | 1:39:58 | |
and they're exposed to the same
risks as many other service | 1:39:58 | 1:40:02 | |
industries. Burr they have to
contend with data protection rules | 1:40:02 | 1:40:05 | |
that will impact on data flows after
Brexit. Tech UK says digital makes | 1:40:05 | 1:40:15 | |
up 16% of UK output and 10% of
employment. It is a significant | 1:40:15 | 1:40:20 | |
export sector. About 96% of output
and 81% of digital exports are in | 1:40:20 | 1:40:27 | |
services. So that is key. It is
vital that we look at an agreement | 1:40:27 | 1:40:37 | |
dealing with data flows and data
flows not only with Europe, 70% wis | 1:40:37 | 1:40:46 | |
Europe, we are one of most advanced
countries in trading online. Our | 1:40:46 | 1:40:54 | |
consumers are knowledgeable in
buying online. It is port that we | 1:40:54 | 1:40:59 | |
look at how we can mitigate or
indeed address those issues in | 1:40:59 | 1:41:05 | |
relation to a future deal. Even if
we maintain identical regulation | 1:41:05 | 1:41:12 | |
with the EU, there are questions
regarding the legal basis on which | 1:41:12 | 1:41:17 | |
companies can transfer datas between
the UK and the EU 27. It would be in | 1:41:17 | 1:41:22 | |
the hands of European commission to
assess whether we had achieveded a | 1:41:22 | 1:41:29 | |
kwa sichlt failure could force
localisation of data and this | 1:41:29 | 1:41:37 | |
fragmentation could cause cost to UK
businesses who will have to | 1:41:37 | 1:41:41 | |
implement alternative structures.
According to one study, it could | 1:41:41 | 1:41:49 | |
cost between 0.4% and 1% of GDP.
Significant drops in investments and | 1:41:49 | 1:41:56 | |
exports. This uncertainty over
whether a deal will be struck could | 1:41:56 | 1:42:01 | |
see companies restrict the amount of
data they store and share in the u | 1:42:01 | 1:42:07 | |
UK. UK. The recognition by the Prime
Minister that we want to see a role | 1:42:07 | 1:42:17 | |
for the UK's Information
Commissioners office is welcome. But | 1:42:17 | 1:42:21 | |
it is vital that we actually deliver
on it and we deliver on it quickly. | 1:42:21 | 1:42:26 | |
The second area I want to address
was the UK legal services. The UK | 1:42:26 | 1:42:34 | |
legal services industry has made it
clear that the Sita model does not | 1:42:34 | 1:42:43 | |
provide a comprehensive framework
for professional services. I would | 1:42:43 | 1:42:47 | |
argue the Government needs to look
at Norway minus, not Canada plus, | 1:42:47 | 1:42:53 | |
plus. It is clear that the... Impact
of no deal on services in the legal | 1:42:53 | 1:43:00 | |
industry would be more dramatic than
it would on the insurance industry, | 1:43:00 | 1:43:03 | |
because there is a widely
established series of EU directives | 1:43:03 | 1:43:09 | |
that have created a well functioning
market in legal services in the EU. | 1:43:09 | 1:43:14 | |
And again this is a sector that is
worth £26 billion to the UK and | 1:43:14 | 1:43:22 | |
equivalent to 1.5% of GDP and
employs people in high paying jobs. | 1:43:22 | 1:43:29 | |
And in 2016 there was a net export
of 4 billion from the legal services | 1:43:29 | 1:43:36 | |
sector into Europe. So it is vital
that when we are looking at the | 1:43:36 | 1:43:43 | |
customs union and I would argue EE
A, which should be the plan B. I | 1:43:43 | 1:43:51 | |
agree with my honourable friend the
member for East Renfrewshire, who | 1:43:51 | 1:43:57 | |
said we absolutely support the Prime
Minister in going out and getting | 1:43:57 | 1:43:59 | |
that deep and special partnership,
that deep and special deal, but if | 1:43:59 | 1:44:03 | |
for any reason we cannot achieve
that deal, then the plan B | 1:44:03 | 1:44:10 | |
alternative should be an EE A EF
avment style deal F you wonder how | 1:44:10 | 1:44:32 | |
how I preached that conclusion, look
at the analysis from across | 1:44:32 | 1:44:37 | |
government departments that
indicated an EE A style departure | 1:44:37 | 1:44:44 | |
would be the least damaging option.
It would allow us to strike trade | 1:44:44 | 1:44:51 | |
deals as they have trade deals with
57 other countries. We can go out | 1:44:51 | 1:44:55 | |
and strike trade deals and go into a
market with 900 million people | 1:44:55 | 1:45:01 | |
potentially and we still do that
trade with China, when the Prime | 1:45:01 | 1:45:07 | |
Minister returned from her China
visit she had signed £9 billion | 1:45:07 | 1:45:12 | |
worth of trade deals. I would argue
that is an option that needs to be | 1:45:12 | 1:45:16 | |
looked at by the government as a
plan B. Thank you. It is a pleasure | 1:45:16 | 1:45:28 | |
to follow the member, whose thinking
is similar to mine. But we are in | 1:45:28 | 1:45:33 | |
the situation where a Conservative
Government finds itself in the | 1:45:33 | 1:45:37 | |
position of not having a majority in
this Parliament of having big | 1:45:37 | 1:45:43 | |
divisions among its own backbenchers
and has an arrogant disregard for | 1:45:43 | 1:45:49 | |
the practical realities, in
particular with regard to its | 1:45:49 | 1:45:54 | |
negotiation stance on Brexit. From
Brexit means Brexit to deep and | 1:45:54 | 1:45:59 | |
special relationship and now managed
divergence, it is clear that the | 1:45:59 | 1:46:02 | |
Prime Minister is trying to find
forms of words that will hold her | 1:46:02 | 1:46:06 | |
party together. Rather than produce
a firm negotiating stance which is | 1:46:06 | 1:46:11 | |
understood by the EU and has a
chance of success. The marriage of | 1:46:11 | 1:46:16 | |
convenience between the Conservative
Party and the Democratic Unionist | 1:46:16 | 1:46:21 | |
Party can only be sustained by the
payment of £1 billion to Northern | 1:46:21 | 1:46:27 | |
Ireland and an agreement over not
having a hard border between | 1:46:27 | 1:46:32 | |
Northern Ireland and the republic.
This is means payment not just to | 1:46:32 | 1:46:37 | |
Belfast, but on the understanding
that the free movement of goods, | 1:46:37 | 1:46:40 | |
services and people across the
border between Northern Ireland and | 1:46:40 | 1:46:45 | |
southern Ireland can be negotiated
successfully with the EU 27, without | 1:46:45 | 1:46:50 | |
the UK having access to the single
market or being in the customs | 1:46:50 | 1:46:53 | |
union. On current viewing, this
seems to be highly unlikely at best | 1:46:53 | 1:46:59 | |
and impossible at worst. Without an
agreement on access to the single | 1:46:59 | 1:47:03 | |
market, as well as some agreement on
a customs union, it is difficult to | 1:47:03 | 1:47:08 | |
see how the democratic unionists can
avoid a hard border. Indications | 1:47:08 | 1:47:13 | |
from Brussels give the impression
that the EU 27 will not be willing | 1:47:13 | 1:47:17 | |
to agree on an open border, unless
there is some agreement in these two | 1:47:17 | 1:47:22 | |
areas. This Government has a huge
mountain to climb, and seems to | 1:47:22 | 1:47:30 | |
think the solution is to placate its
backbenchers rather than carry out | 1:47:30 | 1:47:34 | |
serious negotiations with our
neighbours. It is now 21 months | 1:47:34 | 1:47:39 | |
since the referendum and there is
still little agreement between the | 1:47:39 | 1:47:42 | |
EU and the UK on many key issues.
The leave campaign promised that 350 | 1:47:42 | 1:47:49 | |
million a week extra could be spent
on the NHS if we left the you. Now | 1:47:49 | 1:47:54 | |
we find the government with the
Foreign Secretary who is one of | 1:47:54 | 1:47:57 | |
leaders of leave campaign who said
that the EU can go and whistle and | 1:47:57 | 1:48:02 | |
when he it became clear the UK had
to pay to leave in order to meet its | 1:48:02 | 1:48:09 | |
obligations, already agree with the
EU. Now the Government has agreed to | 1:48:09 | 1:48:14 | |
pay 40 to 50 billion to exit the EU.
Which is a contrast to the 350 | 1:48:14 | 1:48:19 | |
million a week that was going to
come wack into the NHS. The | 1:48:19 | 1:48:25 | |
so-called sufficient progress that
was claimed to have made still | 1:48:25 | 1:48:30 | |
overlooks the details that will be
required to deal with the hard board | 1:48:30 | 1:48:34 | |
we are Ireland and to guarantee
citizens rights in a manner | 1:48:34 | 1:48:38 | |
acceptable to the UK and the EU.
Face two negotiations that should | 1:48:38 | 1:48:42 | |
focus on the framework of a future
relationship find that the EU is | 1:48:42 | 1:48:47 | |
focussing on a frame work and the UK
talks about a future relationship. | 1:48:47 | 1:48:53 | |
Little seems to be agreed on whether
the transitional deal can be | 1:48:53 | 1:48:58 | |
extended beyond two years and a date
of October to formalise talks is too | 1:48:58 | 1:49:05 | |
late to give businesses any
certainty as to how they can | 1:49:05 | 1:49:09 | |
continue to conduct business with
companies across the EU 27 states. | 1:49:09 | 1:49:15 | |
My own view, similar to the member
is the UK should have adopted a | 1:49:15 | 1:49:22 | |
stance to realise an outcome similar
to that of Norway. Which has access | 1:49:22 | 1:49:28 | |
to the single market, despite the
fact that it is not a member of EU. | 1:49:28 | 1:49:31 | |
I would like to have seen a
discussion around a customs union | 1:49:31 | 1:49:36 | |
that would be far better than that
of Turkeys that we could have | 1:49:36 | 1:49:41 | |
negotiated in good faith. We have
Prime Minister who says we don't | 1:49:41 | 1:49:44 | |
want to be in a single market or in
the customs union. The Prime | 1:49:44 | 1:49:48 | |
Minister wants a bespoke trade deal
just for the UK, but is oblivious to | 1:49:48 | 1:49:56 | |
the fact that proposals under mine
the single market. The intro-Dux Dux | 1:49:56 | 1:50:07 | |
of -- concept of managed divergence
seems to be more about the | 1:50:07 | 1:50:14 | |
differences on the backbench of the
Conservative Party. The checkers | 1:50:14 | 1:50:21 | |
Brexit away day deal held to obtain
a truce between the warring factions | 1:50:21 | 1:50:30 | |
of the Conservative Party came with
a stance of managed divergence. This | 1:50:30 | 1:50:33 | |
was a form of words that Sachsed
both the Breck tiers and the | 1:50:33 | 1:50:38 | |
remainers but will find no support
in the EU 27 when those negotiations | 1:50:38 | 1:50:44 | |
finally get going. The EU wishes the
Prime Minister to come forward with | 1:50:44 | 1:50:48 | |
her vision of a relationship between
the EU and the UK for the future. | 1:50:48 | 1:50:56 | |
The managed divergence the Prime
Minister talks of is known as the | 1:50:56 | 1:50:59 | |
three basket approach. Because it
has three tiers. The core with where | 1:50:59 | 1:51:06 | |
the UK would align with regulations,
a mid tier, where there was managed | 1:51:06 | 1:51:12 | |
mutual recognition of rules, such as
in environmental protection and an | 1:51:12 | 1:51:16 | |
outer tier where the UK could
diverge from EU rules with no | 1:51:16 | 1:51:25 | |
consequences. The notion that EU
will accept three different baskets | 1:51:25 | 1:51:33 | |
in arrangements with the UK is
delusional and makes the Government | 1:51:33 | 1:51:40 | |
looks like a basket case. It is like
watching a car crash in slow motion, | 1:51:40 | 1:51:45 | |
but as the driver the Prime Minister
is holding her hands over her eye | 1:51:45 | 1:51:49 | |
and trying to convince the
passengers, that is the public that | 1:51:49 | 1:51:53 | |
everything will be fine. This can
only result in humiliation of the | 1:51:53 | 1:51:58 | |
Prime Minister and it is made clear
that managed divergence is not | 1:51:58 | 1:52:04 | |
acceptable and an inflexible
attitude to the customs union and | 1:52:04 | 1:52:09 | |
the court of justice cannot
continue. | 1:52:09 | 1:52:16 | |
One can envisage the outcome being a
hard Brexit. This is the favoured | 1:52:16 | 1:52:23 | |
outcome of some of the Brexiteers in
her own party. The Prime Minister | 1:52:23 | 1:52:31 | |
should stiffen resolve now, tell her
recalcitrant backbenchers that are | 1:52:31 | 1:52:36 | |
trading relationship with the EU is
still important, even though we are | 1:52:36 | 1:52:40 | |
leaving the EU, and get down to some
serious negotiations that will | 1:52:40 | 1:52:45 | |
preserve jobs and businesses up and
down this country, into -- instead | 1:52:45 | 1:52:49 | |
of leading us to a cliff edge which
will result in a WTO style | 1:52:49 | 1:52:53 | |
agreement.
Thank you. I would like to focus my | 1:52:53 | 1:52:58 | |
remarks today on the ongoing
negotiations between Scotland' to | 1:52:58 | 1:53:03 | |
governments. It will have an impact
on Scotland's ability to do business | 1:53:03 | 1:53:11 | |
and to do trade, especially if we
get it wrong. These negotiations are | 1:53:11 | 1:53:16 | |
ongoing. The UK government has now
published its amendment to close 11 | 1:53:16 | 1:53:21 | |
of the withdrawal bill. Another Bill
Lunde Brexit is being rushed through | 1:53:21 | 1:53:26 | |
the Scottish parliament by the SNP
Scottish government. The EU | 1:53:26 | 1:53:31 | |
Withdrawal Bill may have its faults,
Mr Deputy Speaker, but one thing you | 1:53:31 | 1:53:37 | |
can say is it is legal. The same
cannot be said for the SNP | 1:53:37 | 1:53:44 | |
government's bill currently being
considered by Hollywood. It has been | 1:53:44 | 1:53:48 | |
ruled unlawful by the presiding
officer. Strongly criticised as | 1:53:48 | 1:53:53 | |
inconsistent by a range of experts.
And yet it is still being rushed | 1:53:53 | 1:53:57 | |
through in a few days with minimal
scrutiny. The continuity bill has | 1:53:57 | 1:54:06 | |
not been declared illegal by anyone.
There is a question over a disc its | 1:54:06 | 1:54:12 | |
competency by the presiding officer.
As he well knows, the Lord Advocate | 1:54:12 | 1:54:16 | |
has said it has been carefully
drafted so it is not incompatible | 1:54:16 | 1:54:20 | |
with EU law. He says it will do
nothing to alter EU law until we are | 1:54:20 | 1:54:28 | |
out of Brexit. It is simply
preparing for Brexit in the same way | 1:54:28 | 1:54:33 | |
the UK withdrawal bill is doing. I
hope the illegal word will be | 1:54:33 | 1:54:36 | |
withdrawn for the sake of clarity.
I'm grateful for the point he makes. | 1:54:36 | 1:54:44 | |
I would remind him that the Lord
Advocate is actually a Scottish | 1:54:44 | 1:54:49 | |
government minister. So of course he
is going to be supportive of what | 1:54:49 | 1:54:53 | |
the Scottish government is
proposing. The presiding officer is | 1:54:53 | 1:54:59 | |
the ultimate determining body as to
which bills are qualified to come | 1:54:59 | 1:55:02 | |
macro through the Scottish
government. There appears to be this | 1:55:02 | 1:55:07 | |
narrative being perpetuated that the
presiding officer read the draft | 1:55:07 | 1:55:15 | |
Bill and came up with the conclusion
on his own as opposed to having a | 1:55:15 | 1:55:19 | |
range of extensive and high-quality
legal advice from a range of leading | 1:55:19 | 1:55:24 | |
authors. I think the honourable
member makes an excellent point. The | 1:55:24 | 1:55:28 | |
presiding officer has done this with
the advice of lawyers and other | 1:55:28 | 1:55:33 | |
advice as well. It is misjudged by
the Scottish government David | 1:55:33 | 1:55:37 | |
Beckham push ahead with this
regardless of the view of the | 1:55:37 | 1:55:41 | |
presiding officer. There are some
230 amendments to the bill. It was | 1:55:41 | 1:55:50 | |
planned to be a single sitting
starting last night. Late nights may | 1:55:50 | 1:55:54 | |
not be unusual here but it is
unprecedented in the Scottish | 1:55:54 | 1:55:58 | |
Parliament for so many amendments to
be given so little time to be | 1:55:58 | 1:56:01 | |
considered. I would remind
honourable and right Honourable | 1:56:01 | 1:56:05 | |
members that the chamber of the
Scottish parliament is only given | 1:56:05 | 1:56:08 | |
one opportunity to consider a bill
in detail, and the Scottish | 1:56:08 | 1:56:13 | |
Parliament has no revising chamber
to make improvements at a later | 1:56:13 | 1:56:15 | |
stage. To force through so many
amendments in so little time is not | 1:56:15 | 1:56:19 | |
the way to legislate. The very fact
that opposition MSP 's were able to | 1:56:19 | 1:56:26 | |
identify hundreds of problems with
this bill, and given only a handful | 1:56:26 | 1:56:31 | |
of days to consider it, should be
awake up call for the Scottish | 1:56:31 | 1:56:35 | |
government. I think the honourable
member. Just referring to his | 1:56:35 | 1:56:38 | |
earlier point on the lawfulness of
the continuity bill, does my right | 1:56:38 | 1:56:44 | |
honourable friend agree that in
Wales the presiding officer has | 1:56:44 | 1:56:49 | |
deemed that this is indeed lawful in
Wales? I'm grateful for that point. | 1:56:49 | 1:56:56 | |
The legislation in the Scottish
parliament is different to that | 1:56:56 | 1:57:00 | |
which created the Welsh Assembly. I
don't the powers are similar or | 1:57:00 | 1:57:04 | |
might not. As someone who served in
the Scottish Parliament for ten | 1:57:04 | 1:57:08 | |
years, it is the determination of
the presiding officer as to the | 1:57:08 | 1:57:11 | |
competency of bills. The presiding
officer was very clear this bill was | 1:57:11 | 1:57:16 | |
not competent. If passed, the bill
would give Scottish ministers a raft | 1:57:16 | 1:57:20 | |
of Paris, including the power to
decide which bits of EU law it wants | 1:57:20 | 1:57:24 | |
to adopt into domestic law.
Decisions which rest, decisions I | 1:57:24 | 1:57:31 | |
would suggest should rest with the
Scottish parliament. And that, I | 1:57:31 | 1:57:34 | |
would suggest, is the real power
grab. It will do nothing to help | 1:57:34 | 1:57:39 | |
Scotland to do trade or might
protect businesses in Scotland that | 1:57:39 | 1:57:43 | |
do trade with the rest of the EU or
around the world. The very fact the | 1:57:43 | 1:57:49 | |
SNP government is pushing this
through Holyrood, ignoring the views | 1:57:49 | 1:57:52 | |
of the presiding officer and
avoiding scrutiny from MSPs, shows | 1:57:52 | 1:57:58 | |
what the SNP really think of the
Scottish Parliament and democratic | 1:57:58 | 1:58:02 | |
accountability. I have a huge amount
of respect for him but I hope he | 1:58:02 | 1:58:07 | |
will put on record that the only
part of the Scottish Parliament that | 1:58:07 | 1:58:13 | |
opposes this legislation is the
Scottish Conservative Party. As for | 1:58:13 | 1:58:19 | |
the committee system, he is a former
member of the Parliament and he | 1:58:19 | 1:58:22 | |
knows full well the legislation is
scrutinising committee. I also | 1:58:22 | 1:58:28 | |
understand the huge inadequacies of
the committee system. The other | 1:58:28 | 1:58:31 | |
place here is not perfect but at
least it has the ability to amend | 1:58:31 | 1:58:34 | |
and genuinely scrutinise. Yesterday
there were more than four hours of | 1:58:34 | 1:58:40 | |
debate. How many minutes the SNP
backbenchers contributed? Just over | 1:58:40 | 1:58:45 | |
two minutes of debate time yesterday
was spent by SNP backbench MSP is | 1:58:45 | 1:58:52 | |
scrutinising this continuity bill.
That shows the level of | 1:58:52 | 1:58:57 | |
accountability you get from SNP MSPs
to their government. Ever since the | 1:58:57 | 1:59:04 | |
introduction of the EU Withdrawal
Bill, ever since the EU referendum | 1:59:04 | 1:59:06 | |
result was known, the SNP have been
desperately trying to make Brexit | 1:59:06 | 1:59:09 | |
into an excuse to have another go
for independence. I'm pleased to say | 1:59:09 | 1:59:18 | |
that Scots are not buying it. As it
has just been pointed out, rather | 1:59:18 | 1:59:22 | |
than creating a bandwagon in favour
of independence, it has exposed a | 1:59:22 | 1:59:28 | |
fissure in the nationalist movement
that Nicola Sturgeon has failed to | 1:59:28 | 1:59:32 | |
struggle. The introduction of the
continuity bill is the latest | 1:59:32 | 1:59:35 | |
attempt at this. It is damaging
because it makes a deal about these | 1:59:35 | 1:59:41 | |
powers, a deal which the SNP claims
it wants to make, less not more | 1:59:41 | 1:59:46 | |
likely. It adds more constitutional
uncertainty as an already difficult | 1:59:46 | 1:59:51 | |
time and will do nothing to
Scotland's ability to trade with the | 1:59:51 | 1:59:54 | |
rest of the EU. And just as
importantly, other countries around | 1:59:54 | 1:59:58 | |
the world. The SNP's bill was
unnecessary because we know we have | 1:59:58 | 2:00:03 | |
an amendment to the EU Withdrawal
Bill which essentially flips clause | 2:00:03 | 2:00:06 | |
11 around and which is accompanied
by a list from the UK government of | 2:00:06 | 2:00:10 | |
areas where the UK Common framework
is now necessary. No such list, I | 2:00:10 | 2:00:15 | |
note, has been produced by the
Scottish government. It is critical | 2:00:15 | 2:00:21 | |
for us to do trade across the United
Kingdom and other countries around | 2:00:21 | 2:00:23 | |
the world. Let's step back from the
rhetoric and the grandstanding | 2:00:23 | 2:00:29 | |
coming from the Nationalists on the
benches opposite and indeed in the | 2:00:29 | 2:00:32 | |
Scottish government. If we step
back, this is really a minor | 2:00:32 | 2:00:39 | |
disagreement. The list of powers the
SNP are claiming will be taken away | 2:00:39 | 2:00:43 | |
from the Scottish Parliament
includes things like late payment of | 2:00:43 | 2:00:47 | |
commercial debts and the labelling
of honey. These may well be | 2:00:47 | 2:00:50 | |
important powers, but is it really
been discussed around the tables of | 2:00:50 | 2:00:56 | |
Scotland? I think not. More
importantly, despite the rhetoric of | 2:00:56 | 2:01:06 | |
the power grab, the reality is not a
single one of these powers is being | 2:01:06 | 2:01:11 | |
taken away from the Scottish
Parliament. The Scottish parliament | 2:01:11 | 2:01:16 | |
does not control these powers
currently. Brussels does. And the | 2:01:16 | 2:01:21 | |
majority of these powers will be
coming to the Scottish parliament. | 2:01:21 | 2:01:24 | |
The so-called power grabs in
Westminster will be sending new | 2:01:24 | 2:01:29 | |
powers Holyrood macro's away. --
Holyrood's. Despite talk of a | 2:01:29 | 2:01:39 | |
crisis, the UK and Scottish
government agreed on the way | 2:01:39 | 2:01:42 | |
forward. The vast majority of these
powers, built up in Brussels, will | 2:01:42 | 2:01:47 | |
return to the Scottish parliament.
Some will require a UK wide | 2:01:47 | 2:01:52 | |
frameworks. Both the UK and Scottish
government agree on this approach. | 2:01:52 | 2:01:59 | |
Every time you mention the SNP, if
you had a drink you would be drunk | 2:01:59 | 2:02:04 | |
by now! I remember the days when he
believed the consent of the Scottish | 2:02:04 | 2:02:08 | |
parliament would be required. What
has happened? I'm grateful for that | 2:02:08 | 2:02:15 | |
point. I think we accept the consent
of the Scottish Parliament is | 2:02:15 | 2:02:17 | |
required. But your party leader,
Nicola Sturgeon, in Holyrood macro | 2:02:17 | 2:02:25 | |
is creating division, deliberately
not reaching that agreement to stoke | 2:02:25 | 2:02:29 | |
up what you think will get you to
your ultimate goal, the second | 2:02:29 | 2:02:33 | |
referendum on independence. We're
having none of it. Absolutely none | 2:02:33 | 2:02:39 | |
of it. It makes sense to ensure
businesses do not face the risk of | 2:02:39 | 2:02:42 | |
new barriers to trade in other parts
of the United Kingdom. The Scottish | 2:02:42 | 2:02:46 | |
government accepts that. An example
would be different labelling | 2:02:46 | 2:02:51 | |
requirements or different rules on
pesticides across the UK. It would | 2:02:51 | 2:02:54 | |
stifle trade and is not in the
interest of Scottish business. The | 2:02:54 | 2:02:58 | |
only disagreement is how this
approach is implemented. Hardly an | 2:02:58 | 2:03:05 | |
excuse to push through an unlawful
and rushed bill, as the SNP are | 2:03:05 | 2:03:11 | |
currently trying to do.
It is always fascinating for those | 2:03:11 | 2:03:17 | |
on this site to listen to the debate
going on among Scottish colleagues | 2:03:17 | 2:03:20 | |
on this issue. Is he not remotely
concerned that his government is | 2:03:20 | 2:03:25 | |
being propped up by the votes of the
DUP in this chamber and the | 2:03:25 | 2:03:31 | |
austerity and the Brexit demands
that is forcing on our constituents | 2:03:31 | 2:03:35 | |
is not greater undermining of the
union that what he's about | 2:03:35 | 2:03:37 | |
currently? I'm grateful for the
point. I totally rejected. Our | 2:03:37 | 2:03:45 | |
objective is to achieve the best
deal for all of the United Kingdom, | 2:03:45 | 2:03:49 | |
all part of the United Kingdom,
including Scotland... | 2:03:49 | 2:03:54 | |
Order! Order, Chuka Umunna. Thank
you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I welcome | 2:03:54 | 2:04:01 | |
this debate but I don't welcome the
fact that the government continually | 2:04:01 | 2:04:04 | |
duck having votes in this house on
these matters. I don't welcome the | 2:04:04 | 2:04:09 | |
fact the government continue to do
everything they can to withhold | 2:04:09 | 2:04:12 | |
appropriate information so that we
can come to an informed view on | 2:04:12 | 2:04:16 | |
behalf of other constituents. I
should say that my own view is that | 2:04:16 | 2:04:20 | |
when we are asked to vote on the
withdrawal agreement the Prime | 2:04:20 | 2:04:26 | |
Minister is supposed to return to
this House with in the autumn, I | 2:04:26 | 2:04:29 | |
believe we should be granted a free
vote on that agreement, given the | 2:04:29 | 2:04:32 | |
magnitude of what we are dealing
with and the importance it poses | 2:04:32 | 2:04:36 | |
future generations in this country.
It is clear, and we can see this | 2:04:36 | 2:04:40 | |
every single day, that the Brexit
process has been a total and utter | 2:04:40 | 2:04:45 | |
mess. Article 50 should never have
been invoked at the time it was | 2:04:45 | 2:04:52 | |
invoked. We should have had the
debate we're having now before it | 2:04:52 | 2:04:56 | |
was invoked. I think it's quite
extraordinary that we have only been | 2:04:56 | 2:05:00 | |
given serious detail by the Prime
this month, more than a year and a | 2:05:00 | 2:05:05 | |
half after she took office and when
we are halfway through these Brexit | 2:05:05 | 2:05:10 | |
negotiations. Only now do we seem to
have more clarity from the | 2:05:10 | 2:05:13 | |
government as to the direction they
wish to take this country in these | 2:05:13 | 2:05:18 | |
Brexit negotiations. I give the
Prime Minister this. Her speech was | 2:05:18 | 2:05:23 | |
significant because for the first
time it officially acknowledged what | 2:05:23 | 2:05:26 | |
we know to be true. Which is that
the government is voluntarily | 2:05:26 | 2:05:31 | |
choosing to pursue a policy which
they have admitted is going to make | 2:05:31 | 2:05:37 | |
this country poorer. The Prime
Minister, in that speech, was very | 2:05:37 | 2:05:41 | |
clear. We are going to get less
access, we were not get a | 2:05:41 | 2:05:45 | |
frictionless border. She was talking
about as frictionless border as | 2:05:45 | 2:05:48 | |
possible. It is now used the
Minister shaking his head. We know | 2:05:48 | 2:05:54 | |
from the impact assessments they
have commissioned from their own | 2:05:54 | 2:05:57 | |
civil servants, that the options
they are choosing to pursue are | 2:05:57 | 2:06:01 | |
going to make this country poorer.
And let's be clear. For all this | 2:06:01 | 2:06:06 | |
talk that are EU friends are seeking
to bully our country, seeking to | 2:06:06 | 2:06:10 | |
punish our country, they are not. At
the outset we put a range of options | 2:06:10 | 2:06:15 | |
on the table, including remaining a
member of the single market and the | 2:06:15 | 2:06:18 | |
Customs Union, and it was this Prime
Minister we took those options off | 2:06:18 | 2:06:21 | |
the table. | 2:06:21 | 2:06:27 | |
I'm grateful to my honourable friend
because he is right. The European | 2:06:27 | 2:06:30 | |
partners have said quite queerly
that the red lines that the | 2:06:30 | 2:06:33 | |
Government have set themselves,
meaning the they wish to achieve our | 2:06:33 | 2:06:36 | |
impossible. So it is highly unlikely
that we should blame the EU partners | 2:06:36 | 2:06:41 | |
for that when they are the
Government's redline. Yellow my | 2:06:41 | 2:06:44 | |
honourable friend is absolutely
right. It is the Prime Minister who | 2:06:44 | 2:06:48 | |
is dictating the kind of agreement
that we will reach with the European | 2:06:48 | 2:06:51 | |
Union. Let us be clear what has
happened since 2016. In March 2016, | 2:06:51 | 2:07:01 | |
the Office for Budget Responsibility
was forecasting that our economy was | 2:07:01 | 2:07:03 | |
going to grow to .1% this year, next
year and the year after. And because | 2:07:03 | 2:07:10 | |
of the judgments, and because of the
decisions that this government has | 2:07:10 | 2:07:13 | |
made, the forecast is now saying
that our economy is going to grow by | 2:07:13 | 2:07:17 | |
a paltry 1.5% this year, 1.3% next
year, 1.3% the year after. I say to | 2:07:17 | 2:07:26 | |
the Minister, never before since the
work and I remember a time where you | 2:07:26 | 2:07:32 | |
have had a GDP forecast in every
year which comes in under 2%. And | 2:07:32 | 2:07:36 | |
that is the result of the policy
decisions that he is making. I will | 2:07:36 | 2:07:39 | |
give way. The Government strategy in
relation is negotiated as a | 2:07:39 | 2:07:48 | |
shambles, but more importantly what
the Government is banking on that | 2:07:48 | 2:07:53 | |
the talk of administration bailing
them out. They think they are going | 2:07:53 | 2:07:56 | |
to get some great deals from
administration, but if you look at | 2:07:56 | 2:08:00 | |
agriculture, farming, that sort of
stuff, they are not going to get any | 2:08:00 | 2:08:02 | |
great deals at all. I completely
agree with my honourable friend. I | 2:08:02 | 2:08:07 | |
will come to that shortly. I should
say one of the most extraordinary | 2:08:07 | 2:08:11 | |
things I found with the Prime
minister's speech, particularly | 2:08:11 | 2:08:14 | |
given so many of her Cabinet
Ministers went around telling us | 2:08:14 | 2:08:18 | |
that if we voted to leave the
European Union it was going to lead | 2:08:18 | 2:08:21 | |
to a Nazi for the NHS. I found it
extraordinary that she did not | 2:08:21 | 2:08:26 | |
explain how this will help the NHS
-- it will lead to a bouncy for the | 2:08:26 | 2:08:30 | |
NHS. The US applications are down
96% particularly because in the year | 2:08:30 | 2:08:37 | |
after the referendum vote, we lost
10,000 health workers from our NHS. | 2:08:37 | 2:08:44 | |
This is at a time where we have got
100,000 vacancies in the NHS, which | 2:08:44 | 2:08:48 | |
need to be filled. Not to mention of
this at all, which I find totally... | 2:08:48 | 2:08:57 | |
Well, it was the director of the
book 'leave' campaign I think who | 2:08:57 | 2:08:59 | |
said that people like the Foreign
Secretary and people like the | 2:08:59 | 2:09:03 | |
environment secretary and Trade
Secretary not going around saying | 2:09:03 | 2:09:05 | |
what they step on the NHS we
wouldn't actually be in the | 2:09:05 | 2:09:08 | |
situation that we are in. And let me
come to the point that my honourable | 2:09:08 | 2:09:12 | |
friend has just made about these new
trade deals because of course I do | 2:09:12 | 2:09:16 | |
agree with the Ministers colleague
who opened this debate that it isn't | 2:09:16 | 2:09:19 | |
an either or choice as to whether we
pursue EU trade or we pursue trade | 2:09:19 | 2:09:23 | |
with the rest of the world. In spite
of the fact that that it's actually | 2:09:23 | 2:09:26 | |
an argument that is very often made
from that despatch box by people. | 2:09:26 | 2:09:29 | |
Let's get real about this. It is not
a question of whether this country | 2:09:29 | 2:09:32 | |
is going to be able to do trade
deals, after we have left the | 2:09:32 | 2:09:35 | |
European Union. We will be able to
do trade deals after we left the | 2:09:35 | 2:09:39 | |
European Union, if we leave the
European Union. The question is on | 2:09:39 | 2:09:42 | |
what terms? And we are not going to
get the same terms as we enjoyed | 2:09:42 | 2:09:47 | |
what we are negotiating with half a
billion other people on one side of | 2:09:47 | 2:09:49 | |
the table, then negotiating sale of
China with their 1.6 billion people. | 2:09:49 | 2:09:55 | |
We will not get the same terms we
are 65 million people, a much | 2:09:55 | 2:09:59 | |
smaller economy relative to these
bigger economies who want to do more | 2:09:59 | 2:10:01 | |
trade. That is the reality here. My
honourable friend was right to refer | 2:10:01 | 2:10:07 | |
to President Trump. He is not going
to write to our rescue. You just | 2:10:07 | 2:10:10 | |
need to see what he is doing to our
steel industry, 25% in tariffs. The | 2:10:10 | 2:10:15 | |
final observation I make about Prime
Minister his speech is I have not | 2:10:15 | 2:10:19 | |
spoke to any diplomat, any EU
ambassador, any EU foreign Minister | 2:10:19 | 2:10:24 | |
who thinks that the solution that
the Government has put forward for | 2:10:24 | 2:10:29 | |
the hard border in Northern Ireland
and Ireland, I haven't spoken to any | 2:10:29 | 2:10:35 | |
diplomat who thinks that the
Government solution to technology is | 2:10:35 | 2:10:38 | |
going to resolve that issue. Nobody
I have spoken to believe that will | 2:10:38 | 2:10:42 | |
happen. So what does that lead me to
conclude, Mr Deputy Speaker? Brexit | 2:10:42 | 2:10:51 | |
in the form that it was sold to the
British people is simply not | 2:10:51 | 2:10:55 | |
deliverable. Hear, hear!
And I will give this to the | 2:10:55 | 2:11:00 | |
Government, it isn't necessarily
simply a matter of competence. It is | 2:11:00 | 2:11:02 | |
a reality that so many of the
promises that were made to people, | 2:11:02 | 2:11:08 | |
whether you voted leaf or remain,
suddenly those promises that simply | 2:11:08 | 2:11:11 | |
cannot be delivered. That is the
reality of the situation. And that | 2:11:11 | 2:11:15 | |
is one of the reasons that I think
at the very least we all are the | 2:11:15 | 2:11:20 | |
honourable member for Edinburgh made
this point, and my friend the Member | 2:11:20 | 2:11:22 | |
for the central made this point as
well, at the very least if we are to | 2:11:22 | 2:11:26 | |
leave the European Union we should
be seeking to keep this country | 2:11:26 | 2:11:29 | |
fully participating in the customs
union and to my mind fully | 2:11:29 | 2:11:33 | |
participating in the single market
as well. Let us be clear that as far | 2:11:33 | 2:11:39 | |
as I'm concerned, if you want to and
austerity and if you want to promote | 2:11:39 | 2:11:45 | |
social justice, you have got to be
supporting that position. There is | 2:11:45 | 2:11:51 | |
no impediment to us if you want to
implement the Labour manifesto doing | 2:11:51 | 2:11:55 | |
so, being part of the framework of
the single market and the customs | 2:11:55 | 2:11:58 | |
union. There is no impediment to us
pursuing the nationalizations we | 2:11:58 | 2:12:01 | |
wish to do and other matters. I'll
finish by saying this, Mr Deputy | 2:12:01 | 2:12:06 | |
Speaker. One of the things that I am
most struck by as I go around my | 2:12:06 | 2:12:12 | |
constituency at the moment, and the
truth is I think many members of the | 2:12:12 | 2:12:16 | |
public are just fed up with this
Brexit process. They just want it to | 2:12:16 | 2:12:20 | |
be gone. They want us to just get on
with it. But I think there is a | 2:12:20 | 2:12:24 | |
recognition that is a far much more
complex process than anybody | 2:12:24 | 2:12:27 | |
thought. It is throwing up all kinds
of issues, nobody thought will be | 2:12:27 | 2:12:31 | |
connected to Brexit. The
transportation of the isotopes used | 2:12:31 | 2:12:36 | |
for medical research and counsel
treatment. Who on earth would have | 2:12:36 | 2:12:38 | |
thought that Brexit would be
connected to that? But the group of | 2:12:38 | 2:12:42 | |
people in my constituency who have
the most visceral and strong views | 2:12:42 | 2:12:45 | |
about what is going on are the young
people in my constituency, who | 2:12:45 | 2:12:50 | |
frankly believe that what is going
on is robbing them of the | 2:12:50 | 2:12:55 | |
opportunities older generations have
taken for granted. They cannot | 2:12:55 | 2:13:00 | |
understand why we would want to be
doing this to them. And this is why | 2:13:00 | 2:13:04 | |
I say that I think in the end of
this House should have a free vote | 2:13:04 | 2:13:08 | |
on this matter. Because for me, this
is an issue that transcends our key | 2:13:08 | 2:13:12 | |
politics, it transcends politics. It
is an issue of national interest. | 2:13:12 | 2:13:17 | |
And I tell you, Mr Deputy Speaker, I
do not believe that younger | 2:13:17 | 2:13:20 | |
generation will ever forgive us,
will ever forget the generation of | 2:13:20 | 2:13:26 | |
politicians sitting at his House of
Commons if we don't do the right | 2:13:26 | 2:13:29 | |
thing by them and secure their
futures, ensuring they have the same | 2:13:29 | 2:13:33 | |
opportunities that all of us enjoy
now in that European Union. Hear, | 2:13:33 | 2:13:37 | |
hear!
Thank you very much, Mr Deputy | 2:13:37 | 2:13:42 | |
Speaker. As someone who actually
represents I hope the young people | 2:13:42 | 2:13:45 | |
of the next-generation, I don't
share pessimism because the great | 2:13:45 | 2:13:47 | |
Brexit rise will be regaining our
ability to strike new trade deals | 2:13:47 | 2:13:55 | |
across the world. Not only will
pretty rejoin the rest of the world, | 2:13:55 | 2:13:58 | |
but it will have the opportunity to
lead the rest of the world as a | 2:13:58 | 2:14:02 | |
global free trading nation,
championing trade liberalization and | 2:14:02 | 2:14:08 | |
taking on the voices of
protectionism. So let us be clear, | 2:14:08 | 2:14:13 | |
we are not leaving Europe or turning
our backs on a European neighbours | 2:14:13 | 2:14:18 | |
and partners. Privately Prime
Minister has been explicit that the | 2:14:18 | 2:14:21 | |
Government is seeking a deep and
comprehensive trade deal with the EU | 2:14:21 | 2:14:26 | |
that covers goods as well as
services. By leaving the customs | 2:14:26 | 2:14:33 | |
union, the UK will regain its
ability to set its own independent | 2:14:33 | 2:14:36 | |
trade policy. Our trade with the EU
is in deficit and declining, as the | 2:14:36 | 2:14:43 | |
Minister stated in opening. It was
56% in 2006. Now down to 43% today. | 2:14:43 | 2:14:50 | |
And while our trade with the rest of
the world is actually in surplus and | 2:14:50 | 2:14:53 | |
rising. We shouldn't play down the
importance of Europe as a trading | 2:14:53 | 2:14:58 | |
market and partner, but we must
orientate ourselves towards the | 2:14:58 | 2:15:04 | |
thriving economies and the rest of
the world such as south and East | 2:15:04 | 2:15:08 | |
Asia and their growing demand for
goods and services. 57% of | 2:15:08 | 2:15:13 | |
Britain's's exports are now to
outside of the EU compared with only | 2:15:13 | 2:15:17 | |
46% and in 2006. Further the IMF
estimate that the next 10-15 years | 2:15:17 | 2:15:27 | |
90% of global economic growth will
originate from outside the EU. | 2:15:27 | 2:15:33 | |
International demands for British
goods is growing. And Aberdeen, | 2:15:33 | 2:15:37 | |
which I represent, is well-placed to
take of this. Where 90% of | 2:15:37 | 2:15:42 | |
manufacturing in the city get
exported. Mainly an oil and gas and | 2:15:42 | 2:15:47 | |
environmental engineering. Because
the oil and gas industry is a truly | 2:15:47 | 2:15:52 | |
global one. Which is anchored right
here in the UK. Current industry | 2:15:52 | 2:15:59 | |
exports account for 43% of the UK
supply chain, over and 2017, which | 2:15:59 | 2:16:05 | |
is up from 41% in 2016. Oil and gas
UK's vision 2030 has the ambitious | 2:16:05 | 2:16:14 | |
aim of doubling the supply chain
share of the global market from 3.7% | 2:16:14 | 2:16:22 | |
to 7.4% in 2035. The group based in
Mike assiduously is an example of | 2:16:22 | 2:16:28 | |
this. -- my constituency. They were
established back in 1980 and they | 2:16:28 | 2:16:32 | |
specialise in subsidy buoyancy,
renewable energy and also | 2:16:32 | 2:16:36 | |
engineering solutions. In the play a
round about 500 people in Aberdeen. | 2:16:36 | 2:16:42 | |
And they are highly dependent on the
export market. And they are | 2:16:42 | 2:16:46 | |
currently focusing on West Africa,
South America and the Gulf of | 2:16:46 | 2:16:50 | |
Mexico. And they have been so clear
with me that their only opportunity | 2:16:50 | 2:16:56 | |
for growth is in the X port market.
And I know they have already been | 2:16:56 | 2:17:00 | |
working very closely with the
Department for International Trade, | 2:17:00 | 2:17:03 | |
on trying to exploit those
opportunities. And it is actually | 2:17:03 | 2:17:09 | |
thanks to the investment from the UK
government that the oil and gas to | 2:17:09 | 2:17:14 | |
technology centre in my constituency
was set up. And they are working | 2:17:14 | 2:17:19 | |
with the oil industry in developing
solutions, new technology and | 2:17:19 | 2:17:23 | |
innovation to maximise the full
potential of the UK North Sea from | 2:17:23 | 2:17:29 | |
assets integrity to maximizing
covering small. Drilling to | 2:17:29 | 2:17:34 | |
decommissioning. And the technology
that is developed right in my own | 2:17:34 | 2:17:38 | |
constituency of Aberdeen is
exportable and opportunities are | 2:17:38 | 2:17:40 | |
massive. The Northeast is also home,
as my colleague highlighted, is a | 2:17:40 | 2:17:49 | |
home to a thriving food and drink
industry. And it is known also for | 2:17:49 | 2:17:53 | |
its frisky escorts -- exports. A
less told stories that of our other | 2:17:53 | 2:17:58 | |
domestic exports and here are a few
examples. In fishing we have got | 2:17:58 | 2:18:05 | |
companies like McDuck chauffeurs,
denim seafoods, who are exporting to | 2:18:05 | 2:18:09 | |
countries like Nigeria, China,
Vietnam, Uruguay and Ukraine. I will | 2:18:09 | 2:18:14 | |
take an intervention. During the EU
referendum campaign the honourable | 2:18:14 | 2:18:21 | |
gentleman was pictured outside the
Scottish Parliament with a placard | 2:18:21 | 2:18:23 | |
saying vote no, Vote Leave to bring
control of our fishing back to be | 2:18:23 | 2:18:29 | |
democratically elected Scottish
Parliament. Will he be recirculating | 2:18:29 | 2:18:31 | |
that image? I'm very grateful to the
honourable member for raising that. | 2:18:31 | 2:18:37 | |
It is so clear we are leaving the
European Union, taking back control | 2:18:37 | 2:18:42 | |
of our watchers for over 200
nautical miles. Giving us the | 2:18:42 | 2:18:47 | |
opportunity to rejuvenate our
coastal communities. We are | 2:18:47 | 2:18:52 | |
supporting Scottish fishermen. The
party that went to sell them down | 2:18:52 | 2:18:54 | |
the river, back to Brussels, handing
all those powers right back and | 2:18:54 | 2:19:00 | |
keeping them trapped within the
confines of the common fisheries | 2:19:00 | 2:19:04 | |
policy as every single member of the
SNP. I will take no lectures from | 2:19:04 | 2:19:09 | |
the benches opposite on the benefits
of Brexit for fishermen! Potatoes, | 2:19:09 | 2:19:16 | |
Mr Deputy Speaker, is also, no thank
you I would like to make some | 2:19:16 | 2:19:21 | |
process I've only got three minutes.
In Aberdeen, sought or seeds, | 2:19:21 | 2:19:27 | |
exporting the potatoes to Thailand,
Egypt, Israel, Saudi Arabia and | 2:19:27 | 2:19:32 | |
Brazil. And these are just some
examples of what is happening in my | 2:19:32 | 2:19:37 | |
region. There is a huge interest
nationally... Sorry, would you like | 2:19:37 | 2:19:46 | |
to... I'm grateful to the honourable
member for giving way. He is talking | 2:19:46 | 2:19:51 | |
about the economy. Does he believe
the figures that the UK government | 2:19:51 | 2:19:55 | |
have produced about the head to GDP
from leaving the EU? Does he believe | 2:19:55 | 2:19:58 | |
it was like thank you, Mr Deputy
Speaker. No, because the figures | 2:19:58 | 2:20:01 | |
that have been produced about I will
be clear, the figures that have been | 2:20:01 | 2:20:05 | |
produced are not based on what the
Prime Minister said herself she | 2:20:05 | 2:20:09 | |
wants to achieve which is a defence
vessel relationship with Europe. | 2:20:09 | 2:20:14 | |
None of those are based on that
assumption. So there are huge | 2:20:14 | 2:20:18 | |
opportunities for Aberdeen and the
wider Northeast to use our | 2:20:18 | 2:20:23 | |
competitive advantage to service the
benefit of Brexit. We must set our | 2:20:23 | 2:20:27 | |
sights on the future, a new global
future. It would not be in our | 2:20:27 | 2:20:33 | |
interest or the EU's interest to see
any unnecessary restrictions on | 2:20:33 | 2:20:37 | |
trade. I am confident that the Prime
Minister will deliver a new | 2:20:37 | 2:20:41 | |
partnership. A bespoke partnership.
Which will support our mutual | 2:20:41 | 2:20:44 | |
interests. The UK is the world's
fifth-largest economy. The | 2:20:44 | 2:20:50 | |
fifth-largest exporter and the
second greatest soft power. Our | 2:20:50 | 2:20:55 | |
worldwide presence in reinforced by
our global brands. Our creative | 2:20:55 | 2:21:01 | |
industries and the reputation of our
universities. Bridgen is truly | 2:21:01 | 2:21:06 | |
global. And we must be ambitious to
maximise the Golden Brexit trade | 2:21:06 | 2:21:14 | |
opportunities that lie ahead of us.
Thank you very much, Mr Deputy | 2:21:14 | 2:21:17 | |
Speaker. | 2:21:17 | 2:21:27 | |
The approaching constitutional
crisis that this government is | 2:21:27 | 2:21:29 | |
planning to bring about. This Tory
government continues to put the | 2:21:29 | 2:21:33 | |
established as additional order and
devolution settlement at risk. With | 2:21:33 | 2:21:37 | |
their blatant power grab of devolved
powers. After months of debating, | 2:21:37 | 2:21:44 | |
and meetings, they are still
struggling to grasp the concept of | 2:21:44 | 2:21:49 | |
content. Of devolved
administrations. We must not cede | 2:21:49 | 2:21:55 | |
powers devolved under the current
devolution settlement going from | 2:21:55 | 2:21:59 | |
Brussels to Westminster, without
consent from Cardiff and Edinburgh. | 2:21:59 | 2:22:03 | |
During the last meeting of the joint
ministerial committee, the Welsh | 2:22:03 | 2:22:07 | |
Government was told that the UK
government would not be pressing | 2:22:07 | 2:22:11 | |
amendments on this to a vote before
further discussions. Today, it is | 2:22:11 | 2:22:19 | |
down to the Prime Minister and first
Minister of both Wales and Scotland | 2:22:19 | 2:22:23 | |
to try and end this stalemate. But I
do not see any new offer coming | 2:22:23 | 2:22:28 | |
forward, and time is running out.
And it is very troubling that even | 2:22:28 | 2:22:33 | |
though the Welsh Government
compromised by accepting several | 2:22:33 | 2:22:37 | |
rules and regulations currently
decided in Brussels will need to be | 2:22:37 | 2:22:41 | |
operated on a UK wide basis, that
this UK government cannot bring | 2:22:41 | 2:22:46 | |
themselves to reassure the devolved
administrations that their consent | 2:22:46 | 2:22:50 | |
and agreement will be stored. Mr
Debbie Speaker, it is just not good | 2:22:50 | 2:22:57 | |
enough. In Wales, we are being
expected to accept decisions up to | 2:22:57 | 2:23:05 | |
24 policy areas. Agriculture,
pesticide, animal welfare, organic | 2:23:05 | 2:23:11 | |
farming, environment, take all these
decisions, taken in Westminster | 2:23:11 | 2:23:15 | |
without any consultation, without
consent, from Cardiff. I will give | 2:23:15 | 2:23:20 | |
way. How much influence the Welsh
government currently has, and works | 2:23:20 | 2:23:27 | |
within the EU and whether the EU
contains consent within the Welsh | 2:23:27 | 2:23:33 | |
government. I think the honourable
member for his question, but he is | 2:23:33 | 2:23:36 | |
missing the point. We are looking at
those powers coming back to | 2:23:36 | 2:23:42 | |
Westminster. They should be going
back to Cardiff and Edinburgh, where | 2:23:42 | 2:23:45 | |
those powers are devolved. Both
Cardiff and Edinburgh, Wales and | 2:23:45 | 2:23:51 | |
Scotland play a part in those
discussions. At EU level, all of the | 2:23:51 | 2:23:55 | |
time I will give way. I am sure we
will agree that the devolution | 2:23:55 | 2:24:01 | |
settlement is clear, that something
is not preserved, is devolved, and | 2:24:01 | 2:24:05 | |
that is why this does pose...
Absolutely. I agree with the | 2:24:05 | 2:24:14 | |
honourable member, this does
constitute an absolute power grab | 2:24:14 | 2:24:18 | |
from this UK government. Until we
see substantial change to the U | 2:24:18 | 2:24:24 | |
withdrawal bill, there is a need for
the continuity bill. It would be | 2:24:24 | 2:24:29 | |
preferable to continue to protect
devolution, by the EU withdrawal | 2:24:29 | 2:24:34 | |
bill. That is what I want to see.
Should agreement not be reached, a | 2:24:34 | 2:24:39 | |
continuity bill becomes one of the
most important pieces of legislation | 2:24:39 | 2:24:42 | |
ever to be scrutinised by the Welsh
Assembly. Can I pay tribute to my | 2:24:42 | 2:24:49 | |
colleague Mark Drakeford, the
Cabinet Secretary and Wales, for | 2:24:49 | 2:24:53 | |
pursuing this important piece of
legislature, in the absence of the | 2:24:53 | 2:24:58 | |
agreement being forthcoming from
this UK Tory government. The Bill is | 2:24:58 | 2:25:03 | |
a complex piece of legislation, but
it is a very clear on its aims. It | 2:25:03 | 2:25:08 | |
is intended to deal with the
inevitable consequences in domestic | 2:25:08 | 2:25:13 | |
law of withdrawal from the European
Union by preserving EU law. Covering | 2:25:13 | 2:25:19 | |
subjects already evolved to Wales
and will enable Welsh Ministers to | 2:25:19 | 2:25:24 | |
make necessary changes to ensure
legislation works at the point of | 2:25:24 | 2:25:29 | |
withdrawal. That is what we need to
see. But Mr Deputy Speaker, it is | 2:25:29 | 2:25:34 | |
not just car of an Edinburgh that
this government has questions to | 2:25:34 | 2:25:40 | |
answer. It is for people everywhere.
My constituency of Cardiff, Wales, | 2:25:40 | 2:25:46 | |
UK, and to our friends and allies
across Europe, after months of this | 2:25:46 | 2:25:49 | |
government trying to cover-up the
impact assessments of Brexit, MPs | 2:25:49 | 2:25:55 | |
are finally allowed to go and see
them. As I did. I made the | 2:25:55 | 2:25:59 | |
appointment, handed over my phone,
which was locked in a covert, and | 2:25:59 | 2:26:04 | |
was allowed the hour to look at
them. A week later, they were | 2:26:04 | 2:26:09 | |
distributed everywhere. I was
concerned, Mr Deputy Speaker, to | 2:26:09 | 2:26:14 | |
read that the Government's on
assessment is that this countrymake | 2:26:14 | 2:26:19 | |
economic growth will suffer under
any of the existing models for a | 2:26:19 | 2:26:23 | |
future relationship with the EU.
Under the worst-case scenario, WTO | 2:26:23 | 2:26:30 | |
type agreement, which has often been
impaled by members of the opposite | 2:26:30 | 2:26:37 | |
ventures as a perfectly acceptable
option, GDP could decline by up to | 2:26:37 | 2:26:44 | |
7.7% over 15 years of cumulative.
That was certainly no good news | 2:26:44 | 2:26:50 | |
anywhere in those impact statements
analysis. In the past couple of | 2:26:50 | 2:26:57 | |
months, I have had my own meetings
with representatives from some of | 2:26:57 | 2:27:00 | |
the most UK businesses, EU
businesses, including Airbus, | 2:27:00 | 2:27:09 | |
L'Oreal, and companies from the
pharmaceutical industries to name a | 2:27:09 | 2:27:12 | |
few. The concerns are always the
same. We need more clarity, and a | 2:27:12 | 2:27:19 | |
solid plan. If we are leaving, the
single market and customs Union, how | 2:27:19 | 2:27:24 | |
would this government ensure that
the mad Max reality that Brexit | 2:27:24 | 2:27:31 | |
secretary himself described will not
become reality. If it is not mad | 2:27:31 | 2:27:35 | |
Max, why is it any time
representatives from British | 2:27:35 | 2:27:41 | |
industry, politics, interact with
our European counterparts, in | 2:27:41 | 2:27:45 | |
Germany, France and elsewhere, we
are treated as if we live in Lala | 2:27:45 | 2:27:49 | |
land. When will this government face
the challenges of the unrealistic | 2:27:49 | 2:27:55 | |
standards of their own internal
party politics. That they have set | 2:27:55 | 2:28:00 | |
to serve their own infatuations of
an isolated Britain that has long | 2:28:00 | 2:28:07 | |
gone. When will this government tell
us the truth about the effects of | 2:28:07 | 2:28:11 | |
leaving a customs union and single
market, and offer a plan that at the | 2:28:11 | 2:28:18 | |
very least, does not feel like a
suicide mission. And that safeguards | 2:28:18 | 2:28:23 | |
the future of our businesses,
protecting environmental rights, | 2:28:23 | 2:28:27 | |
protecting workers' rights, our
services, our people, and our | 2:28:27 | 2:28:31 | |
communities. Vicky Ford. Thank you,
as her Deputy Speaker for asking me | 2:28:31 | 2:28:40 | |
to speak on this debate. The 27
other countries make up our largest | 2:28:40 | 2:28:47 | |
trading partners, many thousands of
jobs on both sides of the channel | 2:28:47 | 2:28:50 | |
rely on the trade. This is a very
sensitive time for our negotiations, | 2:28:50 | 2:28:55 | |
which are the most complex of our
generation. Businesses do need | 2:28:55 | 2:29:00 | |
clarity, especially on what will
happen at our borders, what are | 2:29:00 | 2:29:04 | |
long-term trade will look like,
especially 20th century sectors such | 2:29:04 | 2:29:09 | |
as pharmaceuticals, the service
sector, and thirdly, any clarity on | 2:29:09 | 2:29:14 | |
what transition or implementation
will look like. Honesty and | 2:29:14 | 2:29:20 | |
transparency is needed. Let us look
at the offer from the opposition. | 2:29:20 | 2:29:25 | |
They say they want to negotiate a
customs union with the EU, but the | 2:29:25 | 2:29:29 | |
Leader of the Opposition always
stood up in Coventry and said that | 2:29:29 | 2:29:33 | |
he wanted to negotiate exemptions in
relation to privatisation, | 2:29:33 | 2:29:39 | |
competition, and Mr Deputy Speaker,
the week after that negotiation, I | 2:29:39 | 2:29:44 | |
was in Brussels. There was not a
single country that has a customs | 2:29:44 | 2:29:50 | |
union with the EU that has an
extension state. Even Turkey has to | 2:29:50 | 2:29:55 | |
comply with all competition rules in
accordance with the EU Treaty and EU | 2:29:55 | 2:30:00 | |
law. When I was in Brussels, time
and time again, I ask politicians | 2:30:00 | 2:30:05 | |
from other EU countries if they
would get the UK preferred access to | 2:30:05 | 2:30:08 | |
the single market, a customs union
with the EU, but also allow us an | 2:30:08 | 2:30:13 | |
extension, and time and time again,
those politicians from other EU | 2:30:13 | 2:30:18 | |
countries looked at me and rolled
their eyes. The position of the | 2:30:18 | 2:30:24 | |
opposition is not honest, it is not
achievable, and I believe it is | 2:30:24 | 2:30:28 | |
deeply misleading. In trade
negotiations, the devil is in the | 2:30:28 | 2:30:33 | |
details. The Prime minister's speech
was very welcomed. It moved on a | 2:30:33 | 2:30:42 | |
huge amount of detail. Especially, I
welcomed the detail of the aviation | 2:30:42 | 2:30:48 | |
sector, the tech sector, and the
science and innovation packed. Boy, | 2:30:48 | 2:30:52 | |
do we need to continue innovation.
As well as security. I just want to | 2:30:52 | 2:30:57 | |
focus on three areas. Firstly, on
services. The UK sales data EU and | 2:30:57 | 2:31:05 | |
services is 40% of the EU trade, it
has grown as a percentage of our | 2:31:05 | 2:31:10 | |
trade in nearly every year.
Intraday's modern economy, you | 2:31:10 | 2:31:15 | |
cannot separate what is good from
what is a service. Mr Deputy | 2:31:15 | 2:31:18 | |
Speaker, I held up my mobile phone.
It feels like a good, but the | 2:31:18 | 2:31:22 | |
content on it are all services. If
you sell a cancer scanner today | 2:31:22 | 2:31:27 | |
across Europe, sell it without
manufacturing and maintenance | 2:31:27 | 2:31:32 | |
contract. It is a service. I am
about to buy a new car. It comes | 2:31:32 | 2:31:37 | |
with a financial lease arrangement.
It is a financial service. So, | 2:31:37 | 2:31:42 | |
walking away with no deal on
services is not a good deal. It is | 2:31:42 | 2:31:46 | |
especially not good on financial
services, about 2000 people in my | 2:31:46 | 2:31:51 | |
constituency that work insurance.
But there are hundreds of thousands | 2:31:51 | 2:31:55 | |
of German savers who have bought
life insurance products from British | 2:31:55 | 2:32:01 | |
life insurance companies. We do need
a deal on both sides that covers | 2:32:01 | 2:32:04 | |
services. On our borders and customs
union, we need to have an agreement | 2:32:04 | 2:32:10 | |
on what happens at her borders, but
there is much more to customs union | 2:32:10 | 2:32:15 | |
and customs negotiations than just
terrorists. -- tariffs. In | 2:32:15 | 2:32:24 | |
particular, the country of origin,
for complex manufactured products. | 2:32:24 | 2:32:31 | |
The British car sector employs about
169,000 people directly, and nearly | 2:32:31 | 2:32:35 | |
1 million if you add everyone
indirectly. Many of those cars | 2:32:35 | 2:32:40 | |
contain components from all over the
EU. Under the beauty of rules, those | 2:32:40 | 2:32:46 | |
cars are not your opinion and not to
be a European car, or British enough | 2:32:46 | 2:32:50 | |
to be a British car. They would
become orphan cars, if I can say | 2:32:50 | 2:32:56 | |
that. And not be eligible under any
of our trade agreements, we the EU | 2:32:56 | 2:33:01 | |
or elsewhere. That is why I think it
is particularly helpful that the | 2:33:01 | 2:33:05 | |
Prime Minister has left open the
negotiations, not just on a customs | 2:33:05 | 2:33:10 | |
agreement, but also on a customs
partnership, which is an offer for | 2:33:10 | 2:33:15 | |
us to mirror the EU customs codes at
our borders. My third point, if I | 2:33:15 | 2:33:22 | |
may, it's on transition, because
this is really important. The | 2:33:22 | 2:33:25 | |
transition period needs to be
agreed, and it needs to be agreed | 2:33:25 | 2:33:29 | |
now. Otherwise, there are real
issues. Not just for all those | 2:33:29 | 2:33:32 | |
people who live in the city, but
actually for goods, as well. On the | 2:33:32 | 2:33:36 | |
back of my mobile phone is a mark,
and every product which is placed in | 2:33:36 | 2:33:40 | |
the market in Europe has a mark.
Anything has been imported into the | 2:33:40 | 2:33:46 | |
UK has to have a marked put on it.
The market is with a 12 month | 2:33:46 | 2:33:53 | |
certificate. If you are importing
your mobile phone from elsewhere in | 2:33:53 | 2:33:56 | |
the world, into the UK, you need
someone who can issue a certificate | 2:33:56 | 2:34:00 | |
that takes you past not just the end
of this march, but the end of next | 2:34:00 | 2:34:05 | |
March. Unless we resolve transition
this month, what happens to Marks of | 2:34:05 | 2:34:12 | |
good place on the market, both here
and elsewhere in Europe, will not be | 2:34:12 | 2:34:17 | |
resolved, because there are not
enough notified bodies elsewhere in | 2:34:17 | 2:34:21 | |
Europe to take the place of the
British notified bodies today. May I | 2:34:21 | 2:34:27 | |
conclude by saying, thank you for
getting us to the negotiation point | 2:34:27 | 2:34:32 | |
today. Achieving the deal in
December, and the great move forward | 2:34:32 | 2:34:36 | |
in the detail from the Prime
Minister speech a couple of weeks | 2:34:36 | 2:34:39 | |
ago. Let's resolve this transition
period, by the end of this month, as | 2:34:39 | 2:34:46 | |
is absolutely crucial. Let's not
lose sight of the devil in the | 2:34:46 | 2:34:49 | |
details negotiations ahead. The
leader of the oppositions position | 2:34:49 | 2:34:55 | |
is not achievable, and we need to
focus on finding deals that are. | 2:34:55 | 2:34:59 | |
Thank you very much. Christian
Matheson. Nothing I have seen since | 2:34:59 | 2:35:09 | |
the referendum has convinced me to
lead EU is anything short of an act | 2:35:09 | 2:35:14 | |
of national lunacy. The case we have
seen on these problems with the | 2:35:14 | 2:35:18 | |
Irish border, or over the Government
or even to devote on trade and | 2:35:18 | 2:35:24 | |
customs, not currently being
considered by this House, just adds | 2:35:24 | 2:35:27 | |
further to that impression. Part of
the problem is the Prime minister's | 2:35:27 | 2:35:30 | |
in addition, to send a letter to
demand a hard Brexit, reminding her | 2:35:30 | 2:35:37 | |
that there are enough names to force
a Tory election. For me, that is | 2:35:37 | 2:35:42 | |
what this business has been about
from the start, with David Cameron | 2:35:42 | 2:35:45 | |
were agreed to a referendum because
he had failed to stand up to Ukip. | 2:35:45 | 2:35:53 | |
Then, and now, it was party before
country. Let me say, Mr Deputy | 2:35:53 | 2:35:58 | |
Speaker, I do not include all
honourable members opposite in that | 2:35:58 | 2:36:03 | |
assessment. I know many share my
concerns about rushed to a hard | 2:36:03 | 2:36:08 | |
Brexit, because they know the
catastrophic effect it would bring. | 2:36:08 | 2:36:11 | |
They must make a stand and not allow
their side of the House to be | 2:36:11 | 2:36:14 | |
dominated by the minority, currently
making all the running. And to those | 2:36:14 | 2:36:19 | |
who have the courage to do so, I pay
tribute. It was an interesting | 2:36:19 | 2:36:22 | |
notion that was floated by my
honourable friend to suggest there | 2:36:22 | 2:36:27 | |
needs to be a free vote on the final
bill. That was quite an intriguing | 2:36:27 | 2:36:31 | |
proposition. | 2:36:31 | 2:36:41 | |
Similarly in aerospace, needs
certainty over a customs union. | 2:38:42 | 2:38:46 | |
Lights come in and out of airports
several times a day carrying flights | 2:38:46 | 2:38:52 | |
to and from Hamburg and Toulouse
without simple customs arrangements | 2:38:52 | 2:38:56 | |
that brilliant, efficient multi-fat
-- multinational manufacturing | 2:38:56 | 2:39:00 | |
process would be impossible.
Aerospace companies also needs | 2:39:00 | 2:39:06 | |
certainty and quickly. Because of
times, we are the opposing the cliff | 2:39:06 | 2:39:10 | |
edge. I have heard members opposite
make the absurd suggestion that we | 2:39:10 | 2:39:15 | |
should simply align ourselves
regulatory processes but the United | 2:39:15 | 2:39:19 | |
States as a a which demonstrates
that those hard-line Brexiteers, | 2:39:19 | 2:39:21 | |
this is all about ideology and
lightning up with the right-wing | 2:39:21 | 2:39:25 | |
talk America rather than doing what
is right and best for the British | 2:39:25 | 2:39:30 | |
industry for British jobs and
skills. Mr Deputy Speaker, I want to | 2:39:30 | 2:39:33 | |
finish with a final point that was
touched upon by my right eye noble | 2:39:33 | 2:39:37 | |
friend regarding our relations with
Russia. I welcome the Prime | 2:39:37 | 2:39:43 | |
minister's stores today. On Russia.
We must be standing up to Putin's | 2:39:43 | 2:39:48 | |
bullying. We have to ask why Putin
is attacking the UK at this time. It | 2:39:48 | 2:39:53 | |
may be domestic reasons but he does
seem focused on the situation here. | 2:39:53 | 2:40:02 | |
He has already meddled in the euro
referendum, more details of which I | 2:40:02 | 2:40:05 | |
expect to emerge in the coming
months. But he knows that by | 2:40:05 | 2:40:08 | |
isolating ourselves and the EU from
our allies who share our values, | 2:40:08 | 2:40:12 | |
that we are weaker than we were. I
strongly support Nato and Britain's | 2:40:12 | 2:40:18 | |
active membership of that great
alliance but the EU is also an | 2:40:18 | 2:40:22 | |
alliance of security. And when it
comes to economic as opposed to God | 2:40:22 | 2:40:26 | |
for bid military conflict against an
aggressor we should be seeking the | 2:40:26 | 2:40:28 | |
support of our allies there and the
EU. Now is not the time to be | 2:40:28 | 2:40:34 | |
walking away and going it alone when
faced with Russia's threats. And I | 2:40:34 | 2:40:36 | |
hope that in quieter moments
honourable members might take time | 2:40:36 | 2:40:41 | |
to consider whether in light of
Putin's grade meddling in our | 2:40:41 | 2:40:44 | |
democracy, we need to reassess this
whole Brexit mass asked not | 2:40:44 | 2:40:48 | |
currently in the UK's national
interests. Putin's tactics are to | 2:40:48 | 2:40:53 | |
solve Chaos, proved out, discord,
confusion and disharmony. All of a | 2:40:53 | 2:40:57 | |
sudden, surely even the point of
Brexit extremists there is a greater | 2:40:57 | 2:41:03 | |
threat to the UK. In the west than
the European Union. I hope they wake | 2:41:03 | 2:41:09 | |
up to it. My honourable friend I
thought made a very consider speech | 2:41:09 | 2:41:14 | |
earlier on. When you lay down in
detail the damage wrecks it would | 2:41:14 | 2:41:21 | |
do. I don't intend to go over that
ground. I want to talk specifically | 2:41:21 | 2:41:23 | |
about the Scottish government's
continuity bill. It is important | 2:41:23 | 2:41:28 | |
that the House understands precisely
what the Government were doing in | 2:41:28 | 2:41:32 | |
relation to Brexit. But before I do
it, I want to comment on two things | 2:41:32 | 2:41:38 | |
which were said earlier. Firstly by
the Member for Berkshire was no | 2:41:38 | 2:41:42 | |
longer in his place. He spoke about
the continuity bill in Scotland. It | 2:41:42 | 2:41:49 | |
is 140 or so amendments from the
Tories. I was a gently to the Tories | 2:41:49 | 2:41:56 | |
from Scotland that it would have
been better if as a block they had | 2:41:56 | 2:41:59 | |
signed up to amendments to the UK
with drawl bill as a block. Resident | 2:41:59 | 2:42:05 | |
tabling all these amendments to the
Scottish legislation. The second | 2:42:05 | 2:42:10 | |
part I would make to the honourable
gentleman rabbit in South, he spoke | 2:42:10 | 2:42:14 | |
about trade liberalization. I agreed
with him. At the moment we are | 2:42:14 | 2:42:19 | |
hearing an American company, the
Harley-Davidson motorcycle company, | 2:42:19 | 2:42:22 | |
tell us that Donald Trump's tariff
regime last £50 million to their | 2:42:22 | 2:42:27 | |
cost base. Gas will add £50 million
to their cost base. If they are | 2:42:27 | 2:42:33 | |
prepared to damage All-American
businesses, it is naive in the | 2:42:33 | 2:42:36 | |
extreme to assume there will be some
kind of a good deal cut for the UK. | 2:42:36 | 2:42:42 | |
I will take one intervention. Very
grateful. I am glad he agrees about | 2:42:42 | 2:42:48 | |
trade liberalization. Actually EU is
the most protectionist organisation | 2:42:48 | 2:42:54 | |
there is. With high tariffs, all
imports coming into the EU and | 2:42:54 | 2:42:58 | |
actually will be that of off
therefore out of it so we can help | 2:42:58 | 2:43:03 | |
lead the world in liberalizing
trade. I know that the Scottish | 2:43:03 | 2:43:06 | |
branch of the Tory party don't like
expert opinion. But the pre-Brexit | 2:43:06 | 2:43:11 | |
tracery weeks at a loss of up to 10%
of GDP. The post Brexit analysis | 2:43:11 | 2:43:15 | |
says an almost similar amount.
Scottish says it was a comparable | 2:43:15 | 2:43:19 | |
amount. We are faced with a
catastrophe. In every circumstance. | 2:43:19 | 2:43:23 | |
Not only if we go to WTO rules.
Better, I think, to fix the problem, | 2:43:23 | 2:43:30 | |
to maximise the trade, to try and
stay within the customs union, to | 2:43:30 | 2:43:32 | |
accept I think it makes sense the
free movement of people rather than | 2:43:32 | 2:43:36 | |
unicorns and rainbows, which is the
Brexit deals favourite slogan. Mr | 2:43:36 | 2:43:43 | |
Deputy Speaker, I wanted to talk
about the Scottish Government's | 2:43:43 | 2:43:47 | |
continuity bill. It is a bill which
prepares Scottish devolved a loss | 2:43:47 | 2:43:51 | |
for the UK's withdrawal from the
European Union. It means that the EU | 2:43:51 | 2:43:54 | |
loss will be retained after
withdrawal, and that the Scottish | 2:43:54 | 2:44:00 | |
Government will be given the tools
needed to make sure these laws keep | 2:44:00 | 2:44:03 | |
working after withdrawal. It is a
devolved version of the UK | 2:44:03 | 2:44:08 | |
government's EU withdrawal bill. But
I want the House to understand that | 2:44:08 | 2:44:13 | |
the Scottish Government have not
rejected out of hand the UK | 2:44:13 | 2:44:16 | |
government's proposals. Their
preferences are actually to rely on | 2:44:16 | 2:44:22 | |
the UK the EU withdrawal bill. At
the Scottish and Welsh government | 2:44:22 | 2:44:26 | |
continue to seek an agreement with
the UK which would allow the | 2:44:26 | 2:44:29 | |
necessary consent to be given. In
this scenario discusses government | 2:44:29 | 2:44:32 | |
seek to withdraw the continuity
bill. However the continuity bill | 2:44:32 | 2:44:36 | |
has to be introduced now, when it is
going to the Scottish Parliament | 2:44:36 | 2:44:40 | |
now. So that if legislative consent
is not given, Scotland's laws will | 2:44:40 | 2:44:45 | |
still continue to work properly. And
when one hears that exclamation, it | 2:44:45 | 2:44:49 | |
is a rather different explanation to
the Uber reunion is directing | 2:44:49 | 2:44:54 | |
version that we heard from the
honourable gentleman from earlier. | 2:44:54 | 2:45:02 | |
This is important because the UK
government's proposed way of | 2:45:02 | 2:45:05 | |
preparing for withdrawal, the EU
withdrawal bill, it requires a | 2:45:05 | 2:45:11 | |
consent of the Scottish Parliament
to become law. But right now neither | 2:45:11 | 2:45:16 | |
the Scottish Government nor the
Welsh government nor won a unanimous | 2:45:16 | 2:45:22 | |
cross party basis, the Scottish
Parliament financing Constitution | 2:45:22 | 2:45:24 | |
committee, currently agreed that
consent should be hidden. I think | 2:45:24 | 2:45:30 | |
that is extremely important. -- do
not agree that consent should be | 2:45:30 | 2:45:34 | |
given. The Bill allows UK government
to take control of the devolved | 2:45:34 | 2:45:38 | |
powers with the agreement of
Scottish bottling. That is why the | 2:45:38 | 2:45:42 | |
Scottish and Welsh governments have
called it a power grab. And the | 2:45:42 | 2:45:45 | |
financing Constitution committee, or
party, they have set it is | 2:45:45 | 2:45:50 | |
incompatible with the devolution
settlement in Scotland. The UK | 2:45:50 | 2:45:55 | |
government's proposed changes to the
EU withdrawal bill did not yet | 2:45:55 | 2:45:58 | |
addressed this. They would retain
the UK government's ability to | 2:45:58 | 2:46:02 | |
change the limits of devolution
without the agreement of the | 2:46:02 | 2:46:05 | |
Scottish Parliament. And that is
important. In that sense, the | 2:46:05 | 2:46:12 | |
Scottish government's measures
differ greatly from the UK | 2:46:12 | 2:46:15 | |
government bill. The Scottish
continuity bill gives the Scottish | 2:46:15 | 2:46:20 | |
Parliament its full role in the
preparation of Scotland's devolved | 2:46:20 | 2:46:23 | |
loss from EU withdrawal. It also
gives the Scottish Parliament and | 2:46:23 | 2:46:27 | |
enhanced role in scrutinising
proposals for changes to laws as a | 2:46:27 | 2:46:32 | |
result of withdrawal and it makes
for different policy choices, | 2:46:32 | 2:46:35 | |
including retaining and law of the
EU charger of fundamental rights. It | 2:46:35 | 2:46:39 | |
also contains the power to keep pace
with EU law for good reason. If we | 2:46:39 | 2:46:44 | |
are appropriate after the UK chooses
and leaves the EU. I will give way, | 2:46:44 | 2:46:49 | |
yes. Whether he agrees with me that
the opposition amendments to the | 2:46:49 | 2:46:56 | |
Scottish government's withdrawal
bill which significantly watered | 2:46:56 | 2:46:59 | |
down the massive power grab attempt
by the Scottish Ministers in | 2:46:59 | 2:47:02 | |
relation to continuing alignment of
the EU multi-think the Scottish | 2:47:02 | 2:47:06 | |
Government wants for five years,
then five years, then five years. | 2:47:06 | 2:47:08 | |
Does he think that is welcome defeat
of the Scottish government to amend | 2:47:08 | 2:47:12 | |
that milk was yellow -- to amend
that Bill? When Conservatives talk | 2:47:12 | 2:47:20 | |
about eight hours grab in Holyrood,
what that is called for is all power | 2:47:20 | 2:47:25 | |
is coming to Monday. I suspect that
he loves the Tories who would settle | 2:47:25 | 2:47:28 | |
for direct rule of Scotland and the
abolition of dismantling of | 2:47:28 | 2:47:33 | |
devolution completely. I am going to
not fall into the trap of the trick | 2:47:33 | 2:47:39 | |
question from the honourable
gentleman. If the question is why | 2:47:39 | 2:47:44 | |
are the Scottish government
introducing this legislation now, | 2:47:44 | 2:47:47 | |
the truth is that Scotland's laws
must simply be prepared for the day | 2:47:47 | 2:47:51 | |
the UK leaves the EU. If we did
nothing, laws such as agriculture or | 2:47:51 | 2:47:59 | |
food or agricultural support or
fruit standards, may fall away | 2:47:59 | 2:48:01 | |
entirely. Many of us will stop
working in the way they were | 2:48:01 | 2:48:05 | |
intended. It would be disastrous.
And that is important. Exactly, sir. | 2:48:05 | 2:48:10 | |
This has been said by my honourable
friends, no, I have given away twice | 2:48:10 | 2:48:15 | |
and there is no extra minutes. My
honourable friends have accepted | 2:48:15 | 2:48:17 | |
this earlier. That we accept on
principle there may be a need for UK | 2:48:17 | 2:48:22 | |
wide frameworks on some matters. And
it is true that the Scottish and UK | 2:48:22 | 2:48:27 | |
governments have been working with
the UK and Wales to investigate | 2:48:27 | 2:48:30 | |
those issues and explore how those
frameworks would work. But it is | 2:48:30 | 2:48:37 | |
vitally important to recognise and
respect the way devolution marks. If | 2:48:37 | 2:48:40 | |
it is not reserved, it is devolved.
If it were not falling to the remit | 2:48:40 | 2:48:46 | |
of the Scottish Parliament and its
company in Europe, then put it into | 2:48:46 | 2:48:49 | |
the devolved institutions now. And
should they require to be a UK wide | 2:48:49 | 2:48:54 | |
framework, a joint working, then let
the UK, the Scot is, the wealth and | 2:48:54 | 2:49:00 | |
indeed the Northern Irish assembly
negotiate that framework -- Welsh. | 2:49:00 | 2:49:04 | |
What we said we cannot have as a
power grab live the powers of the UK | 2:49:04 | 2:49:08 | |
government are taken back to London
and they didn't decide in a very | 2:49:08 | 2:49:14 | |
patronizing way what, if anything,
might be devolved in the future. It | 2:49:14 | 2:49:21 | |
is completely unacceptable and that
sense for the UK government to rip | 2:49:21 | 2:49:27 | |
up the devolved settlement, because
that in a sense is the consequence | 2:49:27 | 2:49:29 | |
of the power grab. For the 8th of
March, the UK government that they | 2:49:29 | 2:49:35 | |
have drawn up a new list of powers,
including ones they say are | 2:49:35 | 2:49:39 | |
reserved, that had not previously
been shared or discussed with the | 2:49:39 | 2:49:42 | |
Scottish or Welsh government. A year
down the line of these negotiations. | 2:49:42 | 2:49:48 | |
An EU list is drawn up. We have
agreed to that list should be | 2:49:48 | 2:49:51 | |
published for the sake of
transparency, but we certainly do | 2:49:51 | 2:49:53 | |
not agree to the list. I'm not going
to give way again. The Scottish | 2:49:53 | 2:49:58 | |
Government have been asked to sign
away the Scottish Parliament's | 2:49:58 | 2:50:01 | |
powers with no idea how UK wide
frameworks will work, how there will | 2:50:01 | 2:50:07 | |
be governed and how we will go from
them being temporary restrictions | 2:50:07 | 2:50:12 | |
that the UK government wants to
agreement green longer-term | 2:50:12 | 2:50:14 | |
solutions. And despite the UK
government's promise, it failed to | 2:50:14 | 2:50:21 | |
bring forward an amendment and the
House of Commons to the flawed | 2:50:21 | 2:50:24 | |
Clause 11 of the withdrawal bill,
those measures are going through the | 2:50:24 | 2:50:27 | |
Lords but of course that doesn't
allow proper debate and displays. -- | 2:50:27 | 2:50:30 | |
those measures are going through the
Lords. A new amendment was still | 2:50:30 | 2:50:35 | |
allow though, the one which has been
proposed, the UK government to | 2:50:35 | 2:50:38 | |
restrict the Scottish Parliament of
my powers unilaterally through order | 2:50:38 | 2:50:40 | |
made in this place. It would be done
without requiring the consent of | 2:50:40 | 2:50:45 | |
either the Scottish Parliament or
the Scottish government. Mr Deputy | 2:50:45 | 2:50:50 | |
Speaker, if Brexit in itself is I
believe an unmitigated disaster... | 2:50:50 | 2:50:55 | |
Hear, hear!
The fermentation of this, because it | 2:50:55 | 2:50:59 | |
has not been thought through and
there was no plan, is a frightening | 2:50:59 | 2:51:03 | |
domain threatening devolution
entirely. There is a lack of | 2:51:03 | 2:51:07 | |
understanding and respect. It is not
reserved, it is devolved. So I would | 2:51:07 | 2:51:11 | |
say to the Minister, and returned to
the respect agenda that if it is not | 2:51:11 | 2:51:18 | |
deserved, devolved now, stop the
power grab and give him negotiations | 2:51:18 | 2:51:24 | |
probably with the devolved
administrations so that the UK | 2:51:24 | 2:51:26 | |
withdrawal bill that actually worked
without threatening the powers of | 2:51:26 | 2:51:31 | |
the other nations within the UK.
Hear, hear! | 2:51:31 | 2:51:39 | |
Thank you Mr Debbie Speaker. The
people voted to leave, as did the | 2:51:39 | 2:51:44 | |
majority of my own constituents. The
result was one on a narrow margin, | 2:51:44 | 2:51:47 | |
but the result was clear, which is
what I voted Article 50 full stop | 2:51:47 | 2:51:54 | |
however, when we triggered, I argued
a Brexit deal that reflected the | 2:51:54 | 2:51:59 | |
narrow margin, and could bring leave
and remain voters together. I argued | 2:51:59 | 2:52:02 | |
then as now, for an NEA based
Brexit. Which I will say a little | 2:52:02 | 2:52:08 | |
more later. Barely a year after that
referendum, the Prime Minister | 2:52:08 | 2:52:12 | |
called an election, which she hopes
to secure a mandate for hard Brexit. | 2:52:12 | 2:52:16 | |
The British people said no. The
Prime Minister saw her merit | 2:52:16 | 2:52:21 | |
majority disappear. Any sensible
government would at that point | 2:52:21 | 2:52:24 | |
except and commit itself to a
sensible Brexit. One that can bridge | 2:52:24 | 2:52:27 | |
the divide, one that accepts that
compromises must be made if we are | 2:52:27 | 2:52:31 | |
to secure a mutually beneficial deal
from this process. As Michel Barnier | 2:52:31 | 2:52:37 | |
famous escalator slide set, it was
of little lines but for a candidate | 2:52:37 | 2:52:43 | |
based free trade. But it Canada
based is about as much use a teapot. | 2:52:43 | 2:52:51 | |
It covers about 80% of the British
economy. It does nothing to resolve | 2:52:51 | 2:52:55 | |
our issues with the EU agencies,
which have no position whatsoever | 2:52:55 | 2:52:59 | |
for third country participation. A
Canada based deal leaves to a hard | 2:52:59 | 2:53:07 | |
order in Ireland. Now, I ensure the
Government toadies and extremists | 2:53:07 | 2:53:11 | |
and backbenchers are going to repeat
ad nausea him the prime minister's | 2:53:11 | 2:53:17 | |
line about bespoke, but to do so,
fundamentally misunderstands not | 2:53:17 | 2:53:22 | |
only this process, but that of all
trade negotiations. The fact that | 2:53:22 | 2:53:25 | |
all trade deals are a blend of
off-the-shelf and bespoke. The | 2:53:25 | 2:53:30 | |
Brexit negotiations are, first of
all, deciding on the foundations and | 2:53:30 | 2:53:35 | |
the foundations have to be based on
a basic template, whether it isn't | 2:53:35 | 2:53:42 | |
FDA or Association model. What you
have agreement on the foundations, | 2:53:42 | 2:53:45 | |
you can then move onto an argument
about the doors, the windows and the | 2:53:45 | 2:53:50 | |
roof of the House. It is clear that
the fundamental problem with the | 2:53:50 | 2:53:54 | |
Government approach to these
negotiations has been an inability | 2:53:54 | 2:53:56 | |
to accept that you must agree that
foundational model or template as | 2:53:56 | 2:54:01 | |
the basis for negotiations going
forward. I think it is absolutely | 2:54:01 | 2:54:05 | |
unforgivable that just over a week
from the EU agreeing to the | 2:54:05 | 2:54:10 | |
guidelines for future relationships
phase of our negotiations, the | 2:54:10 | 2:54:12 | |
Government is still talking about
all the things that perhaps it could | 2:54:12 | 2:54:19 | |
do, rather blue sky, vague,
inoffensive, so as not to alienate | 2:54:19 | 2:54:23 | |
any particular wing of the
conservative party. That is a | 2:54:23 | 2:54:27 | |
profound abdication of duty. And
responsibility on the part of the | 2:54:27 | 2:54:30 | |
Government. It has left a vacuum and
allowed the EU to define our destiny | 2:54:30 | 2:54:34 | |
for us. Ever since the referendum,
we have been on the back foot, | 2:54:34 | 2:54:40 | |
because the Government has utterly
failed to define the terms of the | 2:54:40 | 2:54:43 | |
debate. This leads us, I hope,
inexorably and ultimately to the | 2:54:43 | 2:54:49 | |
conclusion that we need an exit on
the basis of an EEA deal. And when a | 2:54:49 | 2:54:57 | |
customs union provision building on
the protocol ten president, or | 2:54:57 | 2:55:02 | |
seeking something deeper, can
provide that overarching framework | 2:55:02 | 2:55:05 | |
for deal that is not only
achievable, but one that is to both | 2:55:05 | 2:55:09 | |
leave and remain voters desirable.
What is more, a based Brexit could | 2:55:09 | 2:55:16 | |
navigate a path around the
Government's redlines. The EEA is | 2:55:16 | 2:55:20 | |
not the same as in single market,
and must not be conflated with it. | 2:55:20 | 2:55:24 | |
It the EEA is an internal market and
three of the four states. The EEA | 2:55:24 | 2:55:34 | |
excludes fisheries, and agriculture,
but the key point here is that the | 2:55:34 | 2:55:37 | |
EEA is predicated on a fundamental
different legal and political | 2:55:37 | 2:55:41 | |
purpose to that of a single market.
Whilst the EU single market | 2:55:41 | 2:55:47 | |
predicated on the European Union
with its aim of ever closer union, | 2:55:47 | 2:55:51 | |
they DEA internal market is based on
the EEA agreement. The purpose of | 2:55:51 | 2:55:55 | |
which is to, and I quote, promote a
continuous balance and strengthening | 2:55:55 | 2:55:59 | |
of trade and economic relations
between contracting parties. So the | 2:55:59 | 2:56:05 | |
fact is the EEA is a version to the
European Community based on the | 2:56:05 | 2:56:10 | |
terms of the single European act of
1986. Moreover, we have articles 112 | 2:56:10 | 2:56:17 | |
and 113, which allow for the reform
of the any four freedoms, including | 2:56:17 | 2:56:21 | |
the free movement of people. This is
Artie been done. The protocol 15 | 2:56:21 | 2:56:27 | |
president, and trying equitable is
system, in Liechtenstein, and would | 2:56:27 | 2:56:31 | |
have been available to the Swiss,
had they voted to join the EEA in | 2:56:31 | 2:56:37 | |
1992. It would be a leader at our
disposal, should we wish to join the | 2:56:37 | 2:56:42 | |
EEA. It needs another red line,
which is ending the jurisdiction, | 2:56:42 | 2:56:47 | |
the EEA is overseen by the
arbitration court, which would have | 2:56:47 | 2:56:51 | |
a plurality of UK judges. The court
regularly rules, and frequently sets | 2:56:51 | 2:56:57 | |
precedents that are later followed
by the EC J. In the EEA, this House | 2:56:57 | 2:57:02 | |
would be wholly sovereign. We would
see at and to direct effects, and | 2:57:02 | 2:57:07 | |
writer preservation, we would
possess a veto on EEA rules. Once | 2:57:07 | 2:57:11 | |
more, EEA have considerably shaping
powers. As well as retaining an | 2:57:11 | 2:57:18 | |
influence on the EEA position at the
WTO. Alongside possessing our own | 2:57:18 | 2:57:23 | |
seat at the table as the UK. I will
give way to yellow I think the | 2:57:23 | 2:57:27 | |
Member for giving way. He is making
a powerful case about the EEA and | 2:57:27 | 2:57:31 | |
FTA. I think this is unfortunate
describing the candidate deal as a | 2:57:31 | 2:57:38 | |
chocolate teapot. We do not give
free trade and chocolate. Is meant | 2:57:38 | 2:57:45 | |
to be a quick intervention. You need
to explain,. Thank you, Debbie | 2:57:45 | 2:57:58 | |
Speaker. In short, if you are
looking for a common-sense Brexit | 2:57:58 | 2:58:02 | |
that strikes a pragmatic balance
between prosperity and sovereignty, | 2:58:02 | 2:58:07 | |
then the EEA is the only game in
town. Maximum access to the single | 2:58:07 | 2:58:14 | |
market, with the ability to reform
free movement, resolve the Northern | 2:58:14 | 2:58:17 | |
Ireland issue and the jurisdiction
of the EC J, and above all, reunite | 2:58:17 | 2:58:22 | |
our deeply divided country. I look
away. The problem with the EEA, is | 2:58:22 | 2:58:26 | |
you have to cut-and-paste all EEA
rules. Is it a bespoke deal a better | 2:58:26 | 2:58:33 | |
thing to fight for? I think the
honourable Lady. As I said, what | 2:58:33 | 2:58:40 | |
this has to be is a blend of, a
template of a disk bespoke deal. You | 2:58:40 | 2:58:49 | |
must first of all, in these
negotiations, create common ground. | 2:58:49 | 2:58:54 | |
Territory based on models and
templates that are familiar to both | 2:58:54 | 2:58:57 | |
sides at the negotiating table. Of
course, things can be tweaked and | 2:58:57 | 2:59:02 | |
finesse, but the basic model of the
EEA gives us the architecture and | 2:59:02 | 2:59:05 | |
the certainty that the country so
desperately crying out for, it would | 2:59:05 | 2:59:11 | |
also put the British Government on
the front foot rather than leaving a | 2:59:11 | 2:59:15 | |
vacuum into which the EU has been
obliged to step. Mr Deputy Speaker, | 2:59:15 | 2:59:22 | |
the referendum exposed many of the
deep divisions that have existed in | 2:59:22 | 2:59:25 | |
our country for many years.
Divisions between young and old, | 2:59:25 | 2:59:28 | |
town and city, graduate and not
graduate, these came together as we | 2:59:28 | 2:59:37 | |
coalesced behind tribe remain or
tribe leave. We must not let the | 2:59:37 | 2:59:43 | |
tribalism define our destination. We
must come together. We must find a | 2:59:43 | 2:59:47 | |
way to reunite his country. Define
compromise between remain and the | 2:59:47 | 2:59:51 | |
leave. To place that compromise at
the heart of our negotiation | 2:59:51 | 2:59:54 | |
strategy. And in the EEA of death,
we have the answer. Protecting | 2:59:54 | 3:00:04 | |
marketing access, jobs and
opportunity. The answer to a fresh | 3:00:04 | 3:00:09 | |
and was border in Northern Ireland.
The answer to the call to take back | 3:00:09 | 3:00:13 | |
control on immigration in our courts
and in this House. So let us come | 3:00:13 | 3:00:17 | |
together, let us reunite Britain.
That is build an EEA based Brexit. | 3:00:17 | 3:00:22 | |
Thank you. The first is the
potential impact of Brexit on the | 3:00:22 | 3:00:32 | |
northeast of England. The Met major
of the car is manifested in the | 3:00:32 | 3:00:41 | |
Northeast are imported to the EU.
More than 30,000 jobs to the supply | 3:00:41 | 3:00:46 | |
chain. I have never been one to say
after Brexit, but I am concerned | 3:00:46 | 3:00:53 | |
about preacher investment in the
plant. The business energy and job | 3:00:53 | 3:00:59 | |
strategy select committee said in
their report on the impact of | 3:00:59 | 3:01:04 | |
Brexit, it is difficult to see how
it would make economic sense for | 3:01:04 | 3:01:08 | |
national volume manufacturers, the
bulk of the UK, or DiMaggio tariff | 3:01:08 | 3:01:16 | |
scenario. In single market would be
inevitable. The UK jobs could be in | 3:01:16 | 3:01:26 | |
the hundreds of thousands, and
investments in the hundreds of | 3:01:26 | 3:01:30 | |
millions of pounds. Another example
of why many of us on these pages | 3:01:30 | 3:01:34 | |
call in the UK to remain a member of
the single market and also the | 3:01:34 | 3:01:38 | |
customs union. The same report made
explicit that the UK cannot expect | 3:01:38 | 3:01:43 | |
an expansion of trade over sales
with the loss of trade to Europe | 3:01:43 | 3:01:48 | |
arising from a hard Brexit. It seems
senseless to me, to walk away from | 3:01:48 | 3:01:51 | |
one half of the trade without a
strategic means of replacement or | 3:01:51 | 3:01:58 | |
wishful thinking. The impact
assessments the Government tried to | 3:01:58 | 3:02:01 | |
keep to themselves reveal the
potential impact on the Northeast, | 3:02:01 | 3:02:05 | |
by identifying re-of the major
sectors to be hit, chemicals and | 3:02:05 | 3:02:12 | |
pharmaceuticals, all major
industries in the North East of | 3:02:12 | 3:02:14 | |
England. The impact assessments has
determined all the regions and | 3:02:14 | 3:02:19 | |
nations of the UK, the northeast of
England would be the worst hit. This | 3:02:19 | 3:02:22 | |
is due to the region's strong
manufacturing and industrial base, | 3:02:22 | 3:02:26 | |
which would be exposed most of the
changes and trade barriers and | 3:02:26 | 3:02:30 | |
because we have the greatest
dependence on export as a proportion | 3:02:30 | 3:02:33 | |
of the regional economy. The impact
assessments say the Northeast could | 3:02:33 | 3:02:38 | |
see a decline in its GDP by as much
as 16% over 15 years. We can talk | 3:02:38 | 3:02:43 | |
about a new customs arrangement,
frictionless borders as much as we | 3:02:43 | 3:02:48 | |
like, but all we end up doing is
reinventing the wheel, only to | 3:02:48 | 3:02:52 | |
discover it was not as round as the
original. It is no surprise that the | 3:02:52 | 3:02:57 | |
northeast of England Chamber of
Commerce into a statement, following | 3:02:57 | 3:03:00 | |
the spring statement. In which Ross
Smith said the forecast, he is the | 3:03:00 | 3:03:09 | |
director of policy, the second
sentence otherwise could render | 3:03:09 | 3:03:15 | |
these forecast largely irrelevant
and business still have little | 3:03:15 | 3:03:18 | |
detail to base their planning on.
This second issue I want to move | 3:03:18 | 3:03:23 | |
onto, is the other great strategic
importance as well. Not only to the | 3:03:23 | 3:03:31 | |
UK, but to Europe. Our response to
Russia's legacy of law. I do not | 3:03:31 | 3:03:41 | |
think we should doubt that Russia's
intent with Europe is to divide and | 3:03:41 | 3:03:46 | |
rule. Brexit lays straight into
their arms. It wants to see Europe | 3:03:46 | 3:03:54 | |
divided, but of whom under pressure.
It is always the result of the week. | 3:03:54 | 3:04:06 | |
The Russian state economically is
weak, the population is urging its | 3:04:06 | 3:04:11 | |
major strength,. My collect on the
Northeast for giving way. I like to | 3:04:11 | 3:04:20 | |
point out that the Northeast voted
substantially for leave, they would | 3:04:20 | 3:04:25 | |
actually share his concerns about
manufacturing jobs and about | 3:04:25 | 3:04:28 | |
security. I think my honourable,
right honourable friend and | 3:04:28 | 3:04:34 | |
neighbour, and I think she is right
there. It is a shifting opinion now, | 3:04:34 | 3:04:39 | |
this could damage your prospects for
tens of thousands of people in the | 3:04:39 | 3:04:42 | |
Northeast of England. To get back to
Russia, it does not, I do not think | 3:04:42 | 3:04:51 | |
he wants a kinetic action with Nato,
but he wants is weakened and | 3:04:51 | 3:04:56 | |
distracted. That is why Russia wants
to adopt this hybrid that could be | 3:04:56 | 3:05:02 | |
social, democratic welfare, trying
to influence -- influence democratic | 3:05:02 | 3:05:08 | |
elections. Is it any wonder that he
sees him as one of his favourite | 3:05:08 | 3:05:19 | |
leavers. I endorse the Prime
minister's actions today. The | 3:05:19 | 3:05:22 | |
Salisbury incident is more about
spies, the use of the chemical | 3:05:22 | 3:05:27 | |
weapon on the streets of the UK is
also an attack on the principles on | 3:05:27 | 3:05:32 | |
which we stand, and it must be
defended. The House must declare | 3:05:32 | 3:05:36 | |
which side they stand. This is about
defending our way of life, which is | 3:05:36 | 3:05:41 | |
internationally redacted by rules
based on we need to preserve and | 3:05:41 | 3:05:44 | |
which to seek under nine. From the
boosting of its announced nuclear | 3:05:44 | 3:05:53 | |
capabilities, to a failing economy
run by oligarchs. Spreading news of | 3:05:53 | 3:06:02 | |
the dubious nature throughout Europe
and the US. What Russia is trying to | 3:06:02 | 3:06:05 | |
do is shake our confidence in our
way of life. Engage everywhere, yes. | 3:06:05 | 3:06:10 | |
But to give them the benefit of the
doubt, I think it's ridiculous. To | 3:06:10 | 3:06:15 | |
undermine liberal democracy in the
West, a special relationship with | 3:06:15 | 3:06:20 | |
the US, Nato and the UN, with the
EU, a bilateral which have served us | 3:06:20 | 3:06:26 | |
well for decades. Our leaving the
EU, and I just want to say this, | 3:06:26 | 3:06:31 | |
health Putin. McAfee has always
resented what he sees as the living | 3:06:31 | 3:06:38 | |
of Russia after the collapse of the
Soviet Union. He wants to return to | 3:06:38 | 3:06:41 | |
a world where Russia held call the
shots which you cannot do now. The | 3:06:41 | 3:06:44 | |
next best thing is to weaken those
who are sitting at the table. The | 3:06:44 | 3:06:48 | |
interfere in the US election, the
independence movement, that welcome | 3:06:48 | 3:06:55 | |
extreme sense of hungry's Prime
Minister, and of | 3:06:55 | 3:07:03 | |
Putin believes it is integrated at
the Berlin wall came down. Now he | 3:07:04 | 3:07:07 | |
will play any card or role and he
dies to ensure that happens. | 3:07:07 | 3:07:11 | |
Eventually the UK will not have a
seat at the table of the EU. That is | 3:07:11 | 3:07:20 | |
good for putative. Of course it will
continue to engage with the EU, but | 3:07:20 | 3:07:25 | |
it is better to have that seat at
that table, rather than not. Don't | 3:07:25 | 3:07:31 | |
let us forget Nato is a military
alliance, and is the EU that has the | 3:07:31 | 3:07:36 | |
ability to impose sanctions against
Russia, not Nato. Can I say I agree | 3:07:36 | 3:07:40 | |
with the findings of the foreign
affairs Select Committee global | 3:07:40 | 3:07:43 | |
Britain, the Prime Minister needs to
come to this House to with a global | 3:07:43 | 3:07:48 | |
Britain actually means. Now is the
time to defend ourselves as a | 3:07:48 | 3:07:51 | |
country, unfortunately. And after a
rallying cry for what we actually | 3:07:51 | 3:07:56 | |
believe in as a country. We may have
created a difficulty, but our staff | 3:07:56 | 3:08:04 | |
today is ownership, because the
whole argument comes down to values. | 3:08:04 | 3:08:06 | |
I say to myself as a labour man who
in the ... Is prepared to make | 3:08:06 | 3:08:17 | |
difficult decisions. I think today's
the time to make those decisions. I | 3:08:17 | 3:08:20 | |
believe in Britain as a force for
good in the world. We and these | 3:08:20 | 3:08:25 | |
House and all sites need to stand
for the principles that underpin our | 3:08:25 | 3:08:27 | |
way of life, which is democracy,
human rights. These have been the | 3:08:27 | 3:08:32 | |
foundations of the West for decades.
We need not to stand against those | 3:08:32 | 3:08:36 | |
forces at home and abroad which
seemed Na seek to undermine those | 3:08:36 | 3:08:39 | |
principles. Hear, hear!
Figure, Mr Speaker. My honourable | 3:08:39 | 3:08:43 | |
friend earlier on gave a very
compelling exposition of what we | 3:08:43 | 3:08:49 | |
already have within the single
market and the customs union, the | 3:08:49 | 3:08:54 | |
benefits that we enjoy. And also
what we stand to lose from being | 3:08:54 | 3:08:58 | |
outside of that. And again, I urge
the UK government to engage in | 3:08:58 | 3:09:06 | |
genuine engagement, not token
engagement with the default | 3:09:06 | 3:09:10 | |
administrations. My honourable
friend from Dundee East pointed out | 3:09:10 | 3:09:15 | |
why it is absolutely vital that the
Scottish Parliament brings her a | 3:09:15 | 3:09:18 | |
continuity bill in order to protect
the laws of Scotland. He also | 3:09:18 | 3:09:23 | |
highlighted the naivety over trade
with the US. This hope that rainbows | 3:09:23 | 3:09:29 | |
and unicorns, as the honourable
member for the City of Chester said | 3:09:29 | 3:09:34 | |
earlier on, and a can as I will do
urge the UK government to engage | 3:09:34 | 3:09:39 | |
meaningfully with the devolved
administrations. It is something | 3:09:39 | 3:09:44 | |
that can still be done, even at this
late date. But I think everybody is | 3:09:44 | 3:09:48 | |
getting a bit frustrated by the idea
that there was going to be a bespoke | 3:09:48 | 3:09:53 | |
agreement that is going to be
magically produced here. There is a | 3:09:53 | 3:09:57 | |
hit it and hope attitude from the
front bench on the Government. | 3:09:57 | 3:10:01 | |
Completely ignoring the realities of
the modern world. The UK government | 3:10:01 | 3:10:04 | |
tells us that it is all going to be
well and we're supposed to take it | 3:10:04 | 3:10:08 | |
on trust that that is the case. Yet
through this entire process to date, | 3:10:08 | 3:10:12 | |
they have sought to exclude
prominent. They have had to be | 3:10:12 | 3:10:15 | |
forced to share impact assessments.
The have not listened to and | 3:10:15 | 3:10:22 | |
respected devolved governments. And
in this place we still don't have | 3:10:22 | 3:10:24 | |
answers. Not even about the process.
Never mind what the impact will be. | 3:10:24 | 3:10:29 | |
As the honourable member for for
Greenwich and mentioned earlier that | 3:10:29 | 3:10:35 | |
will be a vote. Ben Foden itself is
a bit like Brexit. It is shrouded in | 3:10:35 | 3:10:40 | |
confusion -- that called itself is
that they like Brexit. I much | 3:10:40 | 3:10:43 | |
Armistead want to be between the
location of the final agreements and | 3:10:43 | 3:10:46 | |
the votes in this place? Asked how
much time is like to be between? | 3:10:46 | 3:10:52 | |
Nobody knows. How long would there
be between the vote and the exit | 3:10:52 | 3:10:56 | |
date? Nobody knows. What additional
documentation will be published by | 3:10:56 | 3:11:01 | |
the governments that accompany the
agreement and the declaration? | 3:11:01 | 3:11:03 | |
Nobody knows. There are lines and
lines and lines of things that to | 3:11:03 | 3:11:09 | |
date nobody knows about this
process. It is yet another record... | 3:11:09 | 3:11:16 | |
We don't have answers to these
questions on Parliament to process, | 3:11:16 | 3:11:21 | |
never mind the answers to the key
questions being asked by business | 3:11:21 | 3:11:23 | |
and my constituents. That is why the
Scottish Government has brought | 3:11:23 | 3:11:28 | |
forward the continuity bill. That is
why everyone in the Scottish | 3:11:28 | 3:11:33 | |
Parliament, apart from the Tories,
understands the need for that. It | 3:11:33 | 3:11:40 | |
retains in domestic law of the EU
law currently operating in devolved | 3:11:40 | 3:11:43 | |
areas. Mr Speaker, they can jump
from the benches but what is clear | 3:11:43 | 3:11:49 | |
is that they are not standing up for
Scotland. Hear, hear! | 3:11:49 | 3:11:53 | |
The continuity bill gives Scottish
Ministers the powers needed to | 3:11:53 | 3:11:56 | |
ensure the default block continues
to operate effectively after the UK | 3:11:56 | 3:11:59 | |
withdrawal. That is a very important
point given the range of powers that | 3:11:59 | 3:12:08 | |
have so far not been agreed to be
devolved directly. These powers | 3:12:08 | 3:12:13 | |
should go straight back to the
Scottish Parliament. Even today, | 3:12:13 | 3:12:16 | |
there has been an other full by
Ipsos to show that the Scottish | 3:12:16 | 3:12:22 | |
people are absolutely unconvinced by
the UK government's possession. One | 3:12:22 | 3:12:26 | |
in eight people think, installing,
it would damage the economy. Only | 3:12:26 | 3:12:31 | |
one in seven think that there is
going to be any kind of benefit from | 3:12:31 | 3:12:36 | |
it. What do we know about economy
and trade? We know that the analysis | 3:12:36 | 3:12:39 | |
for the financial Times that my
honourable friend from North East | 3:12:39 | 3:12:44 | |
Fife pointed to earlier suggested
that Brexit is already crossing the | 3:12:44 | 3:12:48 | |
economy £18 billion a year, or £350
million per week as my honourable | 3:12:48 | 3:12:53 | |
friend pointed out. That is not
money on the side of our bus, that | 3:12:53 | 3:12:56 | |
is money thrown under a bus. Just
lost to us completely. Hear, hear! | 3:12:56 | 3:13:01 | |
No wonder Scotland economics
estimate that Brexit has our recalls | 3:13:01 | 3:13:05 | |
the average household £404 a year as
a result of the falling sterling and | 3:13:05 | 3:13:09 | |
higher inflation since the vote. The
UK government's only impact | 3:13:09 | 3:13:13 | |
assessment confirms that under also
an area of the UK is going to be | 3:13:13 | 3:13:17 | |
worse off after leaving the EU.
Additionally, the analysis also | 3:13:17 | 3:13:23 | |
shows that UK could be forced to
borrow 100 Dundee billion pounds | 3:13:23 | 3:13:26 | |
more after Brexit he claimed 2019
and 2033 -- £120 billion. Leaving | 3:13:26 | 3:13:34 | |
the EU customs union and single
market would be disastrous for | 3:13:34 | 3:13:38 | |
Scotland's trading position. It
would create barriers to trade such | 3:13:38 | 3:13:42 | |
as EU tariffs, customs checks, rules
of origin and divergent regulatory | 3:13:42 | 3:13:45 | |
regimes. It could also impede
Scottish trade with the rest of the | 3:13:45 | 3:13:50 | |
world as we stand to lose the
benefit of 36 EU free trade | 3:13:50 | 3:13:54 | |
agreements covering 53 markets. When
UK government talks about trading | 3:13:54 | 3:14:00 | |
with other nations outside the EU,
they should remember those very | 3:14:00 | 3:14:04 | |
agreements have been facilitated by
being within the EU. There are many | 3:14:04 | 3:14:10 | |
benefits to lose. What we do know
for the food and drink sector in | 3:14:10 | 3:14:14 | |
Scotland, that a hard Brexit risks
access to Scotland's biggest | 3:14:14 | 3:14:18 | |
overseas original food and drink
export market. It risks Scottish | 3:14:18 | 3:14:22 | |
competitiveness and increased cost
for business. It risks the value and | 3:14:22 | 3:14:26 | |
reputation of Scottish produce a
substantially risks food production | 3:14:26 | 3:14:30 | |
through the loss of a workforce. We
know also that there is no trade | 3:14:30 | 3:14:37 | |
without transport. What we also know
about transport is maintaining and | 3:14:37 | 3:14:42 | |
improving physical access to
European countries and allowing | 3:14:42 | 3:14:45 | |
transport operators and service
providers registered in the UK to | 3:14:45 | 3:14:49 | |
operate across the EU and vice versa
remains a vital component of trade. | 3:14:49 | 3:14:56 | |
Minimising administrative
arrangements for crossing borders, | 3:14:56 | 3:15:00 | |
for international trade and
logistics is absolutely vital. As is | 3:15:00 | 3:15:04 | |
access to labour. Crucial for our
transport network. If I had more | 3:15:04 | 3:15:08 | |
time I would spend time on what is
going to happen to rule Scotland | 3:15:08 | 3:15:13 | |
without a meaningful deal. What is
going to happen to the energy | 3:15:13 | 3:15:15 | |
market. But I want to finish, Mr
Speaker, by saying that so far we | 3:15:15 | 3:15:20 | |
don't know what is going to happen
about Parliament rule. We know the | 3:15:20 | 3:15:25 | |
continuity bill is a much needed
piece of legislation to protect the | 3:15:25 | 3:15:29 | |
interests of the Scottish people and
is devolution settlement. We know | 3:15:29 | 3:15:32 | |
that the protections business seat
and questions they still have will | 3:15:32 | 3:15:36 | |
remain unanswered by the UK
government. We know the impact and | 3:15:36 | 3:15:40 | |
concerns for our economy and trade.
Similarly we know the impacts and | 3:15:40 | 3:15:43 | |
concerns for the food and drink
sector, health and social care for | 3:15:43 | 3:15:49 | |
transport, for rule Scotland and for
our energy market and tourism among | 3:15:49 | 3:15:52 | |
much more. So what we now need from
the Government isn't more rhetoric | 3:15:52 | 3:15:58 | |
about scaremongering. These are
genuine, real concerns and we need | 3:15:58 | 3:16:02 | |
answers. So I ask this, will the
Minster answer the questions about | 3:16:02 | 3:16:07 | |
the Parliamentary process so that we
can do our job of representing our | 3:16:07 | 3:16:11 | |
constituents and making sure that
there is a transparent and open | 3:16:11 | 3:16:14 | |
process? Will he recognise that the
Scottish Government are being asked | 3:16:14 | 3:16:19 | |
to sign away the Scottish
Parliament's powers with no idea of | 3:16:19 | 3:16:21 | |
how UK wide frameworks will work,
how they will be covered and how we | 3:16:21 | 3:16:25 | |
will go from the temporary
restrictions the UK government wants | 3:16:25 | 3:16:30 | |
him to the green longer-term
solutions? And in doing so, will he | 3:16:30 | 3:16:32 | |
accept that this is not a
constructive way to engage with the | 3:16:32 | 3:16:36 | |
devolved governments? Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker, Saturday Saint Patrick's | 3:16:36 | 3:16:42 | |
Day. Although we don't know where
Saint Patrick is actually really | 3:16:42 | 3:16:46 | |
from, we know that he wasn't Irish.
His capture by slaves and the tires | 3:16:46 | 3:16:51 | |
that broke the Irish Sea at the
time, he wasn't entirely welcome | 3:16:51 | 3:16:54 | |
when he returned as a free man.
Although he might find himself quite | 3:16:54 | 3:16:57 | |
popular attitudes and him on
Saturday. Recently the Bristol post | 3:16:57 | 3:17:03 | |
published an article about the
Bristol merchants who under Henry | 3:17:03 | 3:17:09 | |
the second in 1171 went to Dublin to
defend Dublin castle in Ireland. And | 3:17:09 | 3:17:18 | |
established as an award from that
from Henry the second, trading | 3:17:18 | 3:17:21 | |
posts. There is still some debate as
to whether via arrangements whereby | 3:17:21 | 3:17:26 | |
the Citizens, the merchants of
Bristol still applies or whether it | 3:17:26 | 3:17:29 | |
has been overridden by the 1937
Constitution, something I still | 3:17:29 | 3:17:34 | |
intend to discuss with the Irish
government. I'm going to skip | 3:17:34 | 3:17:39 | |
through for time. The centuries that
lie in between then and now, whereby | 3:17:39 | 3:17:43 | |
people have flowed between these
islands. Mostly in times of | 3:17:43 | 3:17:47 | |
conflict, often in times of great
poverty and desperation. Looking for | 3:17:47 | 3:17:52 | |
work, trying to settle amongst
different parts of this island. 100 | 3:17:52 | 3:17:55 | |
years ago, we were the same country.
My grandparents born under the | 3:17:55 | 3:17:59 | |
auspices of this Parliament, joining
John Redmond's Army and the British | 3:17:59 | 3:18:05 | |
Army in the First World War.
Upstairs this week, we have had an | 3:18:05 | 3:18:12 | |
exhibition of pictures that again
depicted the flowing of migrant | 3:18:12 | 3:18:15 | |
labour after the Second World War.
And last week upstairs and one of | 3:18:15 | 3:18:20 | |
the committee rooms we had the most
amazing discussion and presentation | 3:18:20 | 3:18:25 | |
by former Taoiseach John Bruton
about John Redmond and the battles | 3:18:25 | 3:18:31 | |
that were raised in this House. That
was at the invitation of the right | 3:18:31 | 3:18:39 | |
honourable member of Saint Helen's,
it was a truly magnificent meeting. | 3:18:39 | 3:18:43 | |
London this weekend will have three
days of celebration for Saint | 3:18:43 | 3:18:46 | |
Patrick's Day. When I was a child
growing up in London this was a far | 3:18:46 | 3:18:49 | |
cry from my experience. We had very
small parades hidden away on a | 3:18:49 | 3:18:52 | |
Sunday morning, viewed with rates as
they heavily policed. It was a | 3:18:52 | 3:18:58 | |
welcome parade on the streets of
London. My first experience across | 3:18:58 | 3:19:01 | |
the Irish border was in 1985. I was
only 21 years of age. It was a | 3:19:01 | 3:19:07 | |
shocking experience for me at that
time. It was a horrendous experience | 3:19:07 | 3:19:10 | |
which I won't go into now. But over
the next 30 years I have witnessed | 3:19:10 | 3:19:15 | |
the most phenomenal transformation.
Of that experience. And I would urge | 3:19:15 | 3:19:21 | |
that the Secretary of State and the
Prime Minister to try and visit | 3:19:21 | 3:19:27 | |
parts of that border now, to try and
understand exactly what is at stake. | 3:19:27 | 3:19:30 | |
Because they could Friday Belfast
agreement was not just about | 3:19:30 | 3:19:35 | |
Northern Ireland and it wasn't just
about Ireland, it was not about a | 3:19:35 | 3:19:37 | |
border. It is about the freedom of
movement across people of these | 3:19:37 | 3:19:41 | |
islands and the deep, deep roots
that they have. It is also greatly | 3:19:41 | 3:19:46 | |
important to the Irish community
that are settled here, who had seen | 3:19:46 | 3:19:51 | |
the experience of being Irish in
this country transformed over the | 3:19:51 | 3:19:54 | |
last 30 years. The normalisation of
relations was hard fought for and we | 3:19:54 | 3:20:00 | |
need to preserve it. For the first
time we have an international treaty | 3:20:00 | 3:20:03 | |
between our countries based on
mutual respect and on shared | 3:20:03 | 3:20:06 | |
interests after those centuries of
conflict. It is an exemplar across | 3:20:06 | 3:20:10 | |
the world. The House of Lords voted
on the border was that there was a | 3:20:10 | 3:20:16 | |
distinction between identifying
solutions that are theoretically | 3:20:16 | 3:20:18 | |
possible and applying them to a few
hundred mile border with hundreds of | 3:20:18 | 3:20:22 | |
formal and informal crossings, and
the existence of what is politically | 3:20:22 | 3:20:24 | |
divisive. And physical
infrastructure at the border would | 3:20:24 | 3:20:29 | |
be politically contentious and in
the view of PPS and I, police and | 3:20:29 | 3:20:33 | |
security forces, a security risk.
The December agreement talked about | 3:20:33 | 3:20:39 | |
in paragraph 47, a mapping exercise.
I have asked this question in this | 3:20:39 | 3:20:43 | |
place before. I have written to the
Prime Minister. If we can please | 3:20:43 | 3:20:46 | |
have published that mapping
exercise. We need to into the facade | 3:20:46 | 3:20:53 | |
that there really can be any kind of
different customs and alignment | 3:20:53 | 3:20:57 | |
ratings across these islands, or any
unilateral change to the current | 3:20:57 | 3:21:00 | |
provisions. From Saint Patrick and
the Bristol merchants wanderings to | 3:21:00 | 3:21:05 | |
be billions of pounds and movements
that are traded across these | 3:21:05 | 3:21:08 | |
islands, it is the great people of
these islands that expect to be able | 3:21:08 | 3:21:13 | |
to move and trade freely, and any
dilution of that will not be | 3:21:13 | 3:21:16 | |
acceptable to any of us. Hear, hear! | 3:21:16 | 3:21:24 | |
Thank you Mr Speaker. It is a
pleasure to follow that speech, and | 3:21:24 | 3:21:28 | |
I was glad I was cheered to hear it.
I'll just say before I began, best | 3:21:28 | 3:21:32 | |
wishes from the member from
Worcester, who is about to embark | 3:21:32 | 3:21:35 | |
upon the most challenging and
rewarding experience of his life. It | 3:21:35 | 3:21:40 | |
is not Brexit, he is due to have a
baby on Friday, I believe. Our | 3:21:40 | 3:21:44 | |
thoughts of all of us are with him.
Mr Speaker, this has been an | 3:21:44 | 3:21:50 | |
interesting afternoon of speeches,
not so much debate as a collection | 3:21:50 | 3:21:54 | |
of thoughts, from MPs and all
matters Brexit related, and | 3:21:54 | 3:21:58 | |
excellent though the conjugations
have been, it seems to me what we | 3:21:58 | 3:22:02 | |
had just taken part in is what is
known as displacement activity. That | 3:22:02 | 3:22:07 | |
is the Parliamentary equivalent of
scratching 1's head when confused. | 3:22:07 | 3:22:11 | |
Why is there no vote? No opportunity
to express Parliament's views today? | 3:22:11 | 3:22:19 | |
Because the Government is afraid of
its Parliament and of its own party. | 3:22:19 | 3:22:22 | |
I have served in Parliament now
opposite free governments, and none | 3:22:22 | 3:22:26 | |
of them has been any good, but none
has lacked confidence like this one. | 3:22:26 | 3:22:32 | |
As the member from Chester said, we
have a Tory party utterly riveted in | 3:22:32 | 3:22:36 | |
government by the task that will
define it was out how we lead the | 3:22:36 | 3:22:40 | |
European Union. It is the single
most important question this | 3:22:40 | 3:22:43 | |
generation of MPs has ever likely to
face. The Government has to be | 3:22:43 | 3:22:49 | |
forced to give us a meaningful vote
on it. There is one issue that | 3:22:49 | 3:22:54 | |
exposes the miserable inadequacy of
the Government's leadership more | 3:22:54 | 3:22:59 | |
than anything else, and that is the
Irish border. The Government has no | 3:22:59 | 3:23:04 | |
clue how to ensure a frictionless
open border in Ireland. It is an | 3:23:04 | 3:23:09 | |
outrage that our prime Minister says
that she is looking at the example | 3:23:09 | 3:23:13 | |
of the border between the United
States and Canada. That is one of | 3:23:13 | 3:23:16 | |
the worst examples I can think of,
so can the Minister confirm that the | 3:23:16 | 3:23:22 | |
Prime Minister has finished looking
at that particular example and has | 3:23:22 | 3:23:25 | |
ruled out. I do hope so. When was
the Secretary of State for the | 3:23:25 | 3:23:32 | |
European union visit the Irish
border? I understand he has never | 3:23:32 | 3:23:34 | |
been. This is unacceptable. The
honourable member from Bristol | 3:23:34 | 3:23:39 | |
South, with her excellent knowledge
of all things Irish, I would be | 3:23:39 | 3:23:44 | |
happy to take him, following her
outstanding speech, I am sure. She | 3:23:44 | 3:23:48 | |
is nodding. The hard Brexiteers have
no suggestions on how to solve this | 3:23:48 | 3:23:53 | |
issue, only redlines and outrage of
epic proportions directed at anyone | 3:23:53 | 3:23:57 | |
who dares to suggest a sensible way
forward. Where is the Government's | 3:23:57 | 3:24:01 | |
legal text of the phase one
agreement? The EU published theirs | 3:24:01 | 3:24:08 | |
on the 25th of February. Where is
Iris? The Labour Party thinks we | 3:24:08 | 3:24:12 | |
should remain, and there is wide
support for this in industry, | 3:24:12 | 3:24:18 | |
particularly in manufacturing. It
was safeguard jobs, help resolve the | 3:24:18 | 3:24:21 | |
Irish border, and give certainty,
but the Government has rejected this | 3:24:21 | 3:24:28 | |
position, it is buffeted by hot air
from his backbenchers, not because | 3:24:28 | 3:24:33 | |
it is putting the interest of the
country first. The Government should | 3:24:33 | 3:24:35 | |
also listen, when she talks of the
importance of services and nine | 3:24:35 | 3:24:42 | |
tariff barriers. When the former top
civil service or trade, says we are | 3:24:42 | 3:24:50 | |
rejecting a three course meal for a
packet of crisps. He has a point. | 3:24:50 | 3:24:53 | |
But rather than brigade in Beit, --
engage in debate, we are just over a | 3:24:53 | 3:25:04 | |
year to exit and the Government has
so little to say on important | 3:25:04 | 3:25:07 | |
issues. Precisely, which areas does
the Government wants to divert on | 3:25:07 | 3:25:13 | |
and deregulate? What does the
Government intend that transitional | 3:25:13 | 3:25:17 | |
period will look like? Will be easy
J have jurisdiction and on what? How | 3:25:17 | 3:25:23 | |
would the Government ensure an open
border in Ireland, without a customs | 3:25:23 | 3:25:27 | |
union? Where is the Immigration
Bill? Why is it delayed? When will | 3:25:27 | 3:25:32 | |
the trade and customs bills return
to this House? As the member from | 3:25:32 | 3:25:36 | |
Preston said, the Government is
afraid of this House, because it | 3:25:36 | 3:25:40 | |
knows there is a majority in this
House for a customs union. Labour | 3:25:40 | 3:25:46 | |
would have a much clearer approach.
We respect the referendum result and | 3:25:46 | 3:25:51 | |
accept that Britain is leading the
European Union. My constituency, | 3:25:51 | 3:25:57 | |
like the member from Sedgefield,
voted to leave, so we understand | 3:25:57 | 3:26:01 | |
that our constituents voted to leave
the EU, not to be poorer or less | 3:26:01 | 3:26:06 | |
safe. Remaining in a customs union
makes people safe and they know that | 3:26:06 | 3:26:11 | |
we are putting their jobs first.
They understand why the Labour Party | 3:26:11 | 3:26:16 | |
is taking the position that it does.
Unlike some others, we want to a | 3:26:16 | 3:26:22 | |
close future relationship with the
EU, based on our values of | 3:26:22 | 3:26:27 | |
internationalism, solidarity and
equality. Maintaining rights, | 3:26:27 | 3:26:30 | |
standards and protections. We would
seek a deal that gives full access | 3:26:30 | 3:26:34 | |
to European markets and maintains
the benefits of the single market, | 3:26:34 | 3:26:37 | |
and a customs union, holding the
Government to what the Brexit | 3:26:37 | 3:26:41 | |
secretary promised in the House of
Commons, with no impediments that | 3:26:41 | 3:26:44 | |
are new to trade. We would negotiate
a new UK, EU union, so there are no | 3:26:44 | 3:26:52 | |
tariffs with Europe, and a hard
order in Ireland. I would seek to | 3:26:52 | 3:26:58 | |
negotiate a say on any new EU trade
deal terms, labour does not believe | 3:26:58 | 3:27:03 | |
that deals with the USA or China
both of which have weaker standards | 3:27:03 | 3:27:08 | |
and regulations, would be likely to
compensate for a significant loss of | 3:27:08 | 3:27:12 | |
trade with our trading neighbours in
the EU. Nor do we believe that being | 3:27:12 | 3:27:19 | |
part of the customs union with the
EU prevents us trading extensively | 3:27:19 | 3:27:25 | |
with nine EU countries. Germany's
largest trading partner is China. As | 3:27:25 | 3:27:32 | |
they said, the idea that being in a
customs union Princess trading | 3:27:32 | 3:27:37 | |
globally is a nonsense. We will
never accept our NHS or other public | 3:27:37 | 3:27:43 | |
services being part of any trade
deal with comp's America. As the | 3:27:43 | 3:27:49 | |
member from Stratham said, just look
at what he intends for our steel | 3:27:49 | 3:27:52 | |
industry. As a member from Cardiff
North, labour believes the devolved | 3:27:52 | 3:27:58 | |
policy areas exercised by the EU
should go directly to the relevant | 3:27:58 | 3:28:04 | |
devolved body, unless the UK
government can make a compelling | 3:28:04 | 3:28:08 | |
case, for that power to be held at
Westminster. In all these areas, the | 3:28:08 | 3:28:14 | |
Labour Party has out an approach
that is pragmatic, respects the | 3:28:14 | 3:28:21 | |
referendum results, and pushed its
national interest first. How long | 3:28:21 | 3:28:25 | |
until the Government does the same?
As the member from... Said, how long | 3:28:25 | 3:28:31 | |
until the Government works to
reunite the country? How many days | 3:28:31 | 3:28:35 | |
of general debate does this
government think we are going to | 3:28:35 | 3:28:38 | |
need before it dares to present
Parliament with an actual decision. | 3:28:38 | 3:28:43 | |
The Government has limped along for
long enough. It is tied it stopped | 3:28:43 | 3:28:47 | |
listening to noisy bluster, pulled
itself together, and secured a good | 3:28:47 | 3:28:52 | |
deal for Britain. Wayne Walker to
reply. Thank you for her kind words. | 3:28:52 | 3:29:02 | |
As Mike honourable friend from
Chelsea, said in his opening | 3:29:02 | 3:29:06 | |
remarks, it is a time for debate. We
are approaching a crucial moment. We | 3:29:06 | 3:29:13 | |
are ambitious about what can be
achieved, as the Prime Minister set | 3:29:13 | 3:29:17 | |
out in her speech. The UK is seeking
the broadest and deepest possible | 3:29:17 | 3:29:21 | |
agreement. We are making real
progress. At the end of last year, | 3:29:21 | 3:29:25 | |
we agreed on key elements, and are
in the process of turning that into | 3:29:25 | 3:29:28 | |
a draft. This is Longwell and the
last weeks. Code defining the draft | 3:29:28 | 3:29:36 | |
report on citizens rights,
negotiations are progressing | 3:29:36 | 3:29:37 | |
positively. Northern Ireland, which
the honourable Lady spoke of so | 3:29:37 | 3:29:44 | |
well, there remained steadfast to
the Belfast agreement, including a | 3:29:44 | 3:29:47 | |
hard border between Ireland and
Northern Ireland. Also, a commitment | 3:29:47 | 3:29:53 | |
to avoiding all borders in United
Kingdom. We are working intensively | 3:29:53 | 3:29:57 | |
to achieve our immediate goal of an
implementation period by the March | 3:29:57 | 3:30:02 | |
European Council, but the EK and the
EU have published text on their | 3:30:02 | 3:30:07 | |
withdrawal agreement, and there is
significant common ground. But there | 3:30:07 | 3:30:10 | |
remain some issues to be discussed
further. We put forward practical | 3:30:10 | 3:30:14 | |
solutions which will help to have a
smooth exit which will protect EK -- | 3:30:14 | 3:30:19 | |
UK and EU. Including in relation to
any new EU laws. We look forward to | 3:30:19 | 3:30:28 | |
continuing discussions with the EU
and remain confident we will reach | 3:30:28 | 3:30:32 | |
an agreement by March European
Council by next week. As my | 3:30:32 | 3:30:34 | |
honourable friend pointed out, that
is absolutely vital. Over the coming | 3:30:34 | 3:30:41 | |
weeks and months, the UK and the EU
will continue to push ahead in all | 3:30:41 | 3:30:44 | |
areas with the aim of reaching a
complete withdrawal agreement in | 3:30:44 | 3:30:47 | |
October. The Prime Minister has a
set out an ambitious vision, the UK | 3:30:47 | 3:30:54 | |
is seeking with the EU. We are
seeking a deepest agreement which | 3:30:54 | 3:30:58 | |
establishes greater cooperation and
any pre-existing trade agreement. | 3:30:58 | 3:31:04 | |
The EU has a long track record of
such the spoke agreements with key | 3:31:04 | 3:31:09 | |
partners. Our proposals include
specific proposals across our | 3:31:09 | 3:31:14 | |
economy include good Psalmist says,
and fisheries, and I can assure my | 3:31:14 | 3:31:18 | |
honourable friend, that we will be
leading the common fisheries policy | 3:31:18 | 3:31:25 | |
when we leave the EU. There are five
foundations that must underpin our | 3:31:25 | 3:31:31 | |
future trading agreements.
Reciprocal agreement, for fair | 3:31:31 | 3:31:35 | |
competition. Independent arbitration
mechanism. An ongoing dialogue with | 3:31:35 | 3:31:39 | |
the EU, especially between
regulators. An arrangement for data | 3:31:39 | 3:31:43 | |
protection, that goes beyond the
adequacy agreement. Appoint my | 3:31:43 | 3:31:47 | |
honourable friend made the case for
extremely well. And finally, but | 3:31:47 | 3:31:51 | |
inwardly, maintaining links between
our people. A fundamental principle | 3:31:51 | 3:31:56 | |
in our negotiation strategy for
goods is portrayed the EU, UK | 3:31:56 | 3:32:00 | |
border. We are seeking a
comprehensive plan to assure we need | 3:32:00 | 3:32:07 | |
to go one series of rubles in one
country. This can be achieved, to | 3:32:07 | 3:32:12 | |
ensure the predatory standards
remain as high at the EU, which, in | 3:32:12 | 3:32:16 | |
practise, means the standards will
remain substantially similar in the | 3:32:16 | 3:32:19 | |
future. Our default is for UK law
may not be necessarily identical, | 3:32:19 | 3:32:24 | |
but should achieve the same outcome.
In some cases, Parliament could | 3:32:24 | 3:32:29 | |
choose to pass an identical law. The
Parliament could also decide not to | 3:32:29 | 3:32:34 | |
achieve the same outcome, but it
would do so knowing there will be | 3:32:34 | 3:32:38 | |
consequences for market access. As I
set out, at the launch of their | 3:32:38 | 3:32:41 | |
consumer charter, it has always
played a key role, and we'll | 3:32:41 | 3:32:46 | |
continue to do so as we leave the
EU. On services, where my honourable | 3:32:46 | 3:32:52 | |
friend made such a powerful case
about the importance of trade in | 3:32:52 | 3:32:55 | |
services, we want an agreement that
is broader than any agreement | 3:32:55 | 3:32:58 | |
before. We do not want to
discriminate against EU service | 3:32:58 | 3:33:01 | |
providers in the UK, and we would
not want the EU to discriminate | 3:33:01 | 3:33:05 | |
against the UK. That would mean a
lemonade any new barriers, and | 3:33:05 | 3:33:11 | |
agreeing on a mobility framework,
that enables firms and self-employed | 3:33:11 | 3:33:16 | |
professionals to provide
across-the-board services. Either | 3:33:16 | 3:33:18 | |
face-to-face, the phone or Internet.
We would want to continue to | 3:33:18 | 3:33:23 | |
recognise qualifications of each
other's professions. As my | 3:33:23 | 3:33:26 | |
honourable friend from East River
toured spoke, I can assure him that | 3:33:26 | 3:33:34 | |
the Prime Minister of the Chancellor
in the recent speeches, and I agree, | 3:33:34 | 3:33:38 | |
with the importance of reaching an
arrangement in this sector. After we | 3:33:38 | 3:33:41 | |
have left the EU, the UK will push
for the greater liberalization of | 3:33:41 | 3:33:45 | |
the greater services market,
represents around 20% of the value | 3:33:45 | 3:33:50 | |
of world trade, but accounted for
45% of the value of UK exports in | 3:33:50 | 3:33:55 | |
2016. Services are important, of a
growing supply chain, while digital | 3:33:55 | 3:34:00 | |
technology is continuing to make
more and more services. The Prime | 3:34:00 | 3:34:03 | |
Minister accepted in her house
speech, and the chair of the select | 3:34:03 | 3:34:12 | |
committee as Frank, in certain ways,
access to each other's market will | 3:34:12 | 3:34:15 | |
be less than is now. We understand
you cannot have all the benefits of | 3:34:15 | 3:34:18 | |
the civil without obligations.
Without all its obligations. We seek | 3:34:18 | 3:34:23 | |
a new balance of those benefits. And
obligations. As the Prime Minister | 3:34:23 | 3:34:27 | |
has made clear, will be leaving the
customs union. It has the extendable | 3:34:27 | 3:34:32 | |
external border, which sends out
identical tariffs will stop trade | 3:34:32 | 3:34:37 | |
policy is excluded as -- exclusive
competence. Our own independent | 3:34:37 | 3:34:43 | |
trade policy. The honourable member
for Brent North, described it as | 3:34:43 | 3:34:49 | |
deeply unattractive. Also explained,
it would be a disaster. It leaving | 3:34:49 | 3:34:58 | |
the EU customs union and
establishing a new arrangement, we | 3:34:58 | 3:35:01 | |
will be able to set up our own
individual tariff arrangement, with | 3:35:01 | 3:35:06 | |
our partners around the world. I did
want to touch very briefly on the | 3:35:06 | 3:35:09 | |
issue of security, which the right
honourable gentleman and many others | 3:35:09 | 3:35:14 | |
raised. We seek a deep in and
comprehensive, our commitments to EU | 3:35:14 | 3:35:22 | |
security should be non-negotiable,
but as the Prime Minister said, in | 3:35:22 | 3:35:25 | |
her speech, the job now is to get on
with it and deliver the best outcome | 3:35:25 | 3:35:29 | |
for the UK exit from the European
Union. That is what we are | 3:35:29 | 3:35:33 | |
determined to do. I beg to move that
the debate now be adjourned. The | 3:35:33 | 3:35:47 | |
ayes have it. Bring it is now
adjourned. Patricia Gibson. Thank | 3:35:47 | 3:35:57 | |
you, Mr Speaker. I am delighted to
have secured this debate will stop I | 3:35:57 | 3:36:01 | |
really wish it was not necessary. I
apologise for the crabby sound of my | 3:36:01 | 3:36:08 | |
voice as I struggle through this
speech. | 3:36:08 | 3:36:16 | |
I have been tabling for this debate
in November when the closers of RBS | 3:36:16 | 3:36:19 | |
plans in my constituency were first
announced. I have had the misfortune | 3:36:19 | 3:36:26 | |
to have secured... I'm losing my
voice. So you can make of that what | 3:36:26 | 3:36:32 | |
you will. Since November, I have
spoken in three debates to in bank | 3:36:32 | 3:36:40 | |
closures. Several letters to the
chief executive of RBS and half | 3:36:40 | 3:36:45 | |
raised the matter with the Scottish
affairs committee chair with just | 3:36:45 | 3:36:50 | |
him and the chief executive of RBS.
Hear, hear! | 3:36:50 | 3:36:52 | |
. I have also held street stalls
with SMB local councils and | 3:36:52 | 3:36:58 | |
activists and volunteers on,
Saturdays in the affected towns | 3:36:58 | 3:37:01 | |
since Christmas, collecting
signatures for a Parliamentary | 3:37:01 | 3:37:06 | |
petition. Testing against these
closures which will be presented in | 3:37:06 | 3:37:09 | |
this place in the coming weeks. The
reason to follow this activity is | 3:37:09 | 3:37:15 | |
because of the real anger and
betrayal felt by the people in those | 3:37:15 | 3:37:22 | |
constituencies, at the loss of these
banks and their counsel Scott RBS is | 3:37:22 | 3:37:26 | |
a bank that belongs to them. They
audit fee if the Government. Hear, | 3:37:26 | 3:37:29 | |
hear!
A bank was bailed out from his own | 3:37:29 | 3:37:33 | |
mistakes and mismanagement by their
taxes. Now their same bang is | 3:37:33 | 3:37:38 | |
leaving the community without a
backward glance, without any sense | 3:37:38 | 3:37:41 | |
of social responsibility to worse
the very communities upon whose | 3:37:41 | 3:37:45 | |
taxes the banks very continued
existence relied. Many communities | 3:37:45 | 3:37:53 | |
in Scotland will be left without a
bank following the latest | 3:37:53 | 3:37:55 | |
announcement of closures. My own
constituency, it brings the total | 3:37:55 | 3:38:00 | |
number of towns with no bank to a
staggering six. The towns no longer | 3:38:00 | 3:38:11 | |
have a bank, and now after these
latest round of closures should they | 3:38:11 | 3:38:16 | |
go ahead? We can add one more to
that list. It will be a town of over | 3:38:16 | 3:38:23 | |
16,000 people with no banking
facilities. Absolutely shocking. And | 3:38:23 | 3:38:28 | |
it would be funny if it were not so
appalling and ridiculous. I | 3:38:28 | 3:38:34 | |
honestly, Mr Speaker, do not think
any other constituency in the United | 3:38:34 | 3:38:37 | |
Kingdom has been adversely, so
cruelly hit. Indeed the banks state | 3:38:37 | 3:38:46 | |
of inertia is that a staggering
rate. I will give way. I would like | 3:38:46 | 3:38:51 | |
to thank the honourable Lady and
mention her courage in getting | 3:38:51 | 3:38:55 | |
through this debate. Would she agree
with me that this is a particularly | 3:38:55 | 3:38:59 | |
badly hit by bank closures, such as
in Northeast vice where RBS calls | 3:38:59 | 3:39:05 | |
them I closed all but one? I do
indeed. That is something, Mr | 3:39:05 | 3:39:10 | |
Speaker, I will than to my speech.
My cognizance has been shown of the | 3:39:10 | 3:39:16 | |
consequences of communities that the
banks are supposed to serve without | 3:39:16 | 3:39:19 | |
a backward glance. The timely debate
on the whole issue about things. Not | 3:39:19 | 3:39:28 | |
only does it affect business here,
but nationally. Closures, people are | 3:39:28 | 3:39:38 | |
left to their own devices. It is a
national thing. And that is the | 3:39:38 | 3:39:46 | |
thank you the public and for billing
the banks out in the first place. | 3:39:46 | 3:39:50 | |
Indeed, and the honourable gentleman
has put his finger on the rails | 3:39:50 | 3:39:53 | |
source of the anger here, the sons
of abandonment. The sense of being | 3:39:53 | 3:39:57 | |
left to their own devices with no
facilities, other facilities upon | 3:39:57 | 3:40:01 | |
which to rely despite the fact that
the bank exist because the taxpayer | 3:40:01 | 3:40:04 | |
make sure that it did. Congratulate
the honourable Lady in bringing | 3:40:04 | 3:40:12 | |
forward this motion to be considered
and thank her for giving us a chance | 3:40:12 | 3:40:19 | |
in a small way. Paul's honourable
leading, the fact that banking is | 3:40:19 | 3:40:22 | |
increasingly moving online is hard
for urban and rural communities who | 3:40:22 | 3:40:28 | |
are geographically isolated from the
physical bank. About broadband and | 3:40:28 | 3:40:32 | |
Internet backing... Does the
honourable Lady feel that this | 3:40:32 | 3:40:37 | |
should be clearly a concern before
any proposals that place? Indeed. | 3:40:37 | 3:40:42 | |
The Commons the honourable gentleman
make code to the very heart of the | 3:40:42 | 3:40:45 | |
issue of financial inclusion. Social
inclusion in the point that he makes | 3:40:45 | 3:40:51 | |
about digital exclusion. So these
things have to be worked out | 3:40:51 | 3:40:53 | |
together. In some kind of organised
fashion. Of course closing the last | 3:40:53 | 3:41:00 | |
bank in town is something of which
the RBS and one point of its history | 3:41:00 | 3:41:05 | |
wanted not to do. But now it is
twisting itself into also associates | 3:41:05 | 3:41:09 | |
to associate itself asked to
dissociate itself from the earlier | 3:41:09 | 3:41:12 | |
promise. I suppose the appeal of the
PR man for RBS found that Val very | 3:41:12 | 3:41:17 | |
unattractive. But now it seems that
it is embarrassed by it and no | 3:41:17 | 3:41:22 | |
longer holding to it. We have heard
a little bit tonight about banking | 3:41:22 | 3:41:26 | |
online. We hear about this a lot. I
accept, and we all except that many | 3:41:26 | 3:41:34 | |
people now choose to bank online.
There is an argument about that and | 3:41:34 | 3:41:40 | |
for those who choose to bank online
or visit their lifestyle and their | 3:41:40 | 3:41:43 | |
needs, thinkable to them. But many
do not bank online. For a whole | 3:41:43 | 3:41:46 | |
variety of reasons. Many, as the
honourable gentleman said, choose | 3:41:46 | 3:41:51 | |
not to do so because they are
digitally excluded. It is a choice | 3:41:51 | 3:41:54 | |
that they are not able to make. I
will give way. Barry at this point | 3:41:54 | 3:42:00 | |
because the resolution and the
country sectors were in relation | 3:42:00 | 3:42:05 | |
broadband. A lot of the will have
problems with BT and broadband. That | 3:42:05 | 3:42:09 | |
is an issue that ultimately denies
people the opportunity to go online. | 3:42:09 | 3:42:16 | |
The honourable judgement is right.
The banks talk about online banking | 3:42:16 | 3:42:19 | |
as though it is a choice. For many
people it is not a choice. They are | 3:42:19 | 3:42:22 | |
digitally excluded. Many people may
not be digitally excluded, but they | 3:42:22 | 3:42:28 | |
may simply decide that online
banking for whatever reason is not | 3:42:28 | 3:42:32 | |
for them. Mr Speaker, for the record
I put myself in that category. I | 3:42:32 | 3:42:35 | |
choose not to bank online. The point
is, Mr Speaker, it should be up to | 3:42:35 | 3:42:43 | |
the customer to choose how and when
bending. Hear, hear! | 3:42:43 | 3:42:47 | |
It is not up to the banks to make
that decision for us. What we have | 3:42:47 | 3:42:52 | |
now, Mr Speaker, is a situation most
cynically or the banks have decided | 3:42:52 | 3:42:56 | |
that those of us who have chosen not
to bank online must be herded into | 3:42:56 | 3:42:59 | |
that particular pain, despite our
will. I congratulate and commend my | 3:42:59 | 3:43:07 | |
honourable friend for securing the
debate in the way she is presenting | 3:43:07 | 3:43:10 | |
our argument which is very strong.
Could she comment on the feeling, | 3:43:10 | 3:43:13 | |
the strength of feeling on the
figures that have been released or | 3:43:13 | 3:43:16 | |
have not been released by RBS around
the fruit fall figures in their | 3:43:16 | 3:43:20 | |
branches? Certainly there is a
feeling and energy where they're | 3:43:20 | 3:43:22 | |
trying to close one of my branches
that they have not provided | 3:43:22 | 3:43:27 | |
sufficient or accurate information
around justifying those closures, | 3:43:27 | 3:43:29 | |
which is very concerning -- in
Airdrie? The honourable judgement is | 3:43:29 | 3:43:32 | |
correct. We have all seen our own
constituencies. The jiggery-pokery | 3:43:32 | 3:43:39 | |
which has taken place with regard to
the presentation of these figures | 3:43:39 | 3:43:41 | |
which do not reveal... I'm hoping
that is the first time that instead | 3:43:41 | 3:43:45 | |
in hindsight. Jiggery-pokery. I've
heard the term used previously by | 3:43:45 | 3:43:54 | |
the honourable gentleman for North
East Somerset. LAUGHTER | 3:43:54 | 3:43:56 | |
Thank you for that clarification, Mr
Speaker. We do know that there has | 3:43:56 | 3:44:02 | |
been jiggery-pokery, there's been
all sorts of nefarious goings on | 3:44:02 | 3:44:06 | |
about how these figures are
presented. The colleagues are | 3:44:06 | 3:44:10 | |
shouting the words slipped it to me,
which may well indeed cover that | 3:44:10 | 3:44:13 | |
particular practise that is going
on. But the point is it is not | 3:44:13 | 3:44:17 | |
correct that customers are herded
into the pain of online banking, a | 3:44:17 | 3:44:21 | |
place where they have up to this one
chosen or perhaps been unable to go. | 3:44:21 | 3:44:26 | |
But we have been forced down this
road by banks as they shut up shop. | 3:44:26 | 3:44:31 | |
And if we insist that we do not want
to thank Almighty attitude from too | 3:44:31 | 3:44:35 | |
many banks and conversations I have
had, Mr Speaker, with banking | 3:44:35 | 3:44:38 | |
officials of who shall remain
nameless, the attitude if people | 3:44:38 | 3:44:41 | |
choose not to bank online is for the
banks collectively to shrug their | 3:44:41 | 3:44:46 | |
shoulders and say more or less
severe self, but still shutting a | 3:44:46 | 3:44:49 | |
bank. Hear, hear!
Thank you for securing the debate. | 3:44:49 | 3:44:57 | |
Thank you for what you have done in
your constituency, and thank you for | 3:44:57 | 3:45:04 | |
using jiggery-pokery that I can
understand. LAUGHTER | 3:45:04 | 3:45:11 | |
Different party issue. Join me in
expressing that none of the ten | 3:45:11 | 3:45:19 | |
banks that were given that reviewed
the Matt repeats that the ten month | 3:45:19 | 3:45:25 | |
reprieve instantly a stay of the ten
month reprieve instantly a stay of | 3:45:25 | 3:45:28 | |
this occasion and derisory for the
people of Scotland. RBS could do | 3:45:28 | 3:45:31 | |
better for the people that have been
customers for generations at RBS. It | 3:45:31 | 3:45:36 | |
has let down the people who made the
RBS. I think the honourable | 3:45:36 | 3:45:41 | |
gentleman for that intervention, and
he is right. The ten banks that have | 3:45:41 | 3:45:44 | |
been given a reprieve are not
enough. Me of course I would be | 3:45:44 | 3:45:47 | |
disappointed that none of them are
there. Always the banks have been | 3:45:47 | 3:45:52 | |
reprieved well, I wish we did at the
other 52 earmarked for closure and | 3:45:52 | 3:45:55 | |
Scotland to the list of reprieved
banks because if we could give a | 3:45:55 | 3:45:58 | |
reprise to be banks in my
constituency I am quite sure that we | 3:45:58 | 3:46:01 | |
would make every effort to persuade
RBS thereafter that the reprieve was | 3:46:01 | 3:46:06 | |
a permanent state. But obviously the
goal would be to see if every bank. | 3:46:06 | 3:46:10 | |
I'll come back to that later because
I see the Minister looking at me | 3:46:10 | 3:46:13 | |
with a bit of alarm. LAUGHTER
The one question, Mr Speaker, I | 3:46:13 | 3:46:22 | |
would throw out there in terms of
digital exclusion will stop the | 3:46:22 | 3:46:25 | |
banks are often fond of telling us
that we don't need to have our | 3:46:25 | 3:46:28 | |
branches, we can bank on mine. I
would like to know what RBS in | 3:46:28 | 3:46:31 | |
particular who are behind these
closures, I would like to know what | 3:46:31 | 3:46:34 | |
their advice would be to customers
who are digitally excluded. Where do | 3:46:34 | 3:46:39 | |
they go when the last RBS in town
closes? How do they access banking | 3:46:39 | 3:46:42 | |
services? I think the honourable
member for giving mentioned to me. | 3:46:42 | 3:46:50 | |
An excellent speech. One of the
things that RBS like to claim is | 3:46:50 | 3:46:54 | |
they've got these mobile things
going around. One of which comes | 3:46:54 | 3:46:57 | |
into my constituency at Dundee West.
But does my honourable member of | 3:46:57 | 3:47:02 | |
group me that how we often arrive 48
short period of time, they have | 3:47:02 | 3:47:06 | |
steps to get in so those who are
disabled cannot get him. When it is | 3:47:06 | 3:47:10 | |
raining you are spending their often
for half an hour to get service. The | 3:47:10 | 3:47:14 | |
very people who are not only
digitally excluded are the very | 3:47:14 | 3:47:17 | |
people who come for that essential
service. Hear, hear! | 3:47:17 | 3:47:20 | |
The honourable judgement is correct.
RBS have informed me that in my | 3:47:20 | 3:47:26 | |
constituency that will replace the
branches with mobile banks. | 3:47:26 | 3:47:30 | |
Completely, unsatisfactory
situation. Hear, hear! | 3:47:30 | 3:47:33 | |
They are delayed by the weather, by
traffic, they are not disability | 3:47:33 | 3:47:39 | |
compliant and apparently there
advises that if you are disabled or | 3:47:39 | 3:47:43 | |
immobile or mobility impairment and
you cannot access the physical | 3:47:43 | 3:47:48 | |
mobile bank, then apparently the
banking teller will come out and you | 3:47:48 | 3:47:51 | |
can do your banking in the middle of
the street. Well, that is absolutely | 3:47:51 | 3:47:55 | |
shocking. I think the honourable
friend for giving way. She is making | 3:47:55 | 3:48:02 | |
an extremely passionate speech. The
Parliament revolt for disability | 3:48:02 | 3:48:07 | |
that I cherish not going to be
launching an inquiry into community | 3:48:07 | 3:48:11 | |
banking for people with disabilities
and mobility control problems. By | 3:48:11 | 3:48:16 | |
the honourable Lady, my constituents
who have mobility problems, RBS | 3:48:16 | 3:48:24 | |
plans to close things they feel
particularly let down that there | 3:48:24 | 3:48:26 | |
will be no services which are
appropriate and available. Hear, | 3:48:26 | 3:48:28 | |
hear!
Indy. That is something I will be | 3:48:28 | 3:48:31 | |
coming to in a little while, about
the importance of providing | 3:48:31 | 3:48:36 | |
accessible and sustainable banking
services. And all the communities | 3:48:36 | 3:48:38 | |
for the needs of all our
communities. Those of us who cannot | 3:48:38 | 3:48:41 | |
get to the next town because of lack
of our own chessboard or public | 3:48:41 | 3:48:45 | |
transport or because of other
mobility issues. Will my honourable | 3:48:45 | 3:48:47 | |
friend give way? I will indeed. She
has spoken about the impact of bank | 3:48:47 | 3:48:53 | |
closures in rural areas, but does
she agree with me also an outlying | 3:48:53 | 3:48:56 | |
village areas of the city like it
might constituency where the world | 3:48:56 | 3:49:00 | |
are BS and shut the bank last year,
this is a real impact on small | 3:49:00 | 3:49:03 | |
businesses on the High Street? If
they take that away, people will try | 3:49:03 | 3:49:07 | |
to the supermarket to get their cash
out and spend their money at the | 3:49:07 | 3:49:10 | |
supermarket rather than on the many
vibrant small businesses that exist | 3:49:10 | 3:49:14 | |
in places like this. Hear, hear!
The honourable lady actually leads | 3:49:14 | 3:49:20 | |
very smoothly onto my neck point.
Although of course we are not that | 3:49:20 | 3:49:23 | |
concerned about that. The point the
honourable lady makes about the | 3:49:23 | 3:49:31 | |
effect on small businesses is
extremely important. Because we all | 3:49:31 | 3:49:35 | |
know that small businesses which are
the backbone of our communities, the | 3:49:35 | 3:49:41 | |
lifeblood of our communities, to
keep the heart of the High Street | 3:49:41 | 3:49:43 | |
beating. We all know that we work in
an extremely challenging retail | 3:49:43 | 3:49:48 | |
climate. And if local businesses, Mr
Speaker, cannot think their takings | 3:49:48 | 3:49:53 | |
at the end of the business day then
they encourage individual insurance | 3:49:53 | 3:49:57 | |
costs. I will finish this point.
They either take the cash at the end | 3:49:57 | 3:50:01 | |
of the business they put them
because the bank goes the snow might | 3:50:01 | 3:50:06 | |
say, so the average with them or
they try to be next town to bank | 3:50:06 | 3:50:09 | |
their takings, either way their
insurance costs go up. For | 3:50:09 | 3:50:13 | |
businesses already struggling with
the cost of survival, that could | 3:50:13 | 3:50:17 | |
well be enough to tip several of
them over the edge. And decent word | 3:50:17 | 3:50:22 | |
of banks in our towns that often
prove critical for this reason. -- | 3:50:22 | 3:50:25 | |
the support of things in our House.
Let's not forget everybody in this | 3:50:25 | 3:50:31 | |
Chamber understands the importance
of small businesses keeping our high | 3:50:31 | 3:50:34 | |
Street alive. Hear, hear!
I've got three banks shutting down. | 3:50:34 | 3:50:43 | |
A town that sees one local bank.
These banks opened up, it was local | 3:50:43 | 3:50:48 | |
workers who built these banks. You
are spot on about local and small | 3:50:48 | 3:50:53 | |
businesses, usually staff is going
to take a large sum of money. Then | 3:50:53 | 3:50:58 | |
go to the post office. The post
office is not equipped for that. | 3:50:58 | 3:51:01 | |
That is a very big debate. Thank you
very much. I think the honourable | 3:51:01 | 3:51:05 | |
gentleman for intervention. I need
to make process because I know the | 3:51:05 | 3:51:09 | |
Minister is keen to respond.
LAUGHTER | 3:51:09 | 3:51:14 | |
I'm not going to give my
intervention. | 3:51:14 | 3:51:22 | |
Following the closure of their banks
is an alarming 18 point miles away. | 3:51:22 | 3:51:28 | |
A 12 point eight miles round-trip a
week. Customers have also been | 3:51:28 | 3:51:36 | |
directed to Irving, at 628 mile
round trip. This is not good enough. | 3:51:36 | 3:51:40 | |
When one considers that many of
these customers do not have access | 3:51:40 | 3:51:44 | |
to private transport. They will be
at the mercy of local public | 3:51:44 | 3:51:48 | |
transport and all weathers. The
elderly and the infirm will be left | 3:51:48 | 3:51:53 | |
to fend for themselves, as financial
and social exclusion bite in their | 3:51:53 | 3:51:57 | |
town. What we're talking about is
financial and social exclusion. | 3:51:57 | 3:52:02 | |
These bank closures may be affected
amenities no longer have access to | 3:52:02 | 3:52:07 | |
data to a services. The problems
mobile banks bring with them. They | 3:52:07 | 3:52:13 | |
are simply not a solution to the
problem of closing down the last | 3:52:13 | 3:52:17 | |
bank in town. They are a very poor
substitute, and the people expect | 3:52:17 | 3:52:24 | |
better and they deserve better.
Banks have shown and are showing | 3:52:24 | 3:52:29 | |
increasing leaks that they have no
sense of service to the community, | 3:52:29 | 3:52:33 | |
and tonight I am calling on the
Minister to establish and enforce a | 3:52:33 | 3:52:38 | |
guaranteed minimum level of service
for inessential banking services. | 3:52:38 | 3:52:44 | |
Recognising the importance of
continued access to banking for our | 3:52:44 | 3:52:47 | |
communities. Surely, as now time Mr
Speaker, giving that banks are | 3:52:47 | 3:52:51 | |
writing over our communities with no
sense of service or responsibility, | 3:52:51 | 3:52:57 | |
for a guaranteed minimal service, to
put in place. I know that the Prime | 3:52:57 | 3:53:03 | |
Minister has said repeatedly that
branch closures are operational make | 3:53:03 | 3:53:08 | |
for the banks, but that is not good
enough. It is still 70% owned by the | 3:53:08 | 3:53:16 | |
taxpayer, so this is a bitter pill
to swallow. In addition, we note the | 3:53:16 | 3:53:21 | |
UK government retains all
legislative and revelatory powers in | 3:53:21 | 3:53:25 | |
respect to financial services. The
UK government does have the | 3:53:25 | 3:53:28 | |
authority to call a halt to this
devastating round of closures. | 3:53:28 | 3:53:34 | |
Banks, stakeholders, and the
European Scottish governments | 3:53:34 | 3:53:37 | |
consider how best to take account of
the obligation to banking customers | 3:53:37 | 3:53:40 | |
and their communities. Whatever the
banks may say, they do have such an | 3:53:40 | 3:53:45 | |
obligation to our communities. They
have a financial service and a moral | 3:53:45 | 3:53:50 | |
obligation. In addition to the UK
government arguing that these are | 3:53:50 | 3:53:54 | |
operating for banks, there is a
precedent. The Minister knows there | 3:53:54 | 3:53:59 | |
is a president. The previous two
clerk came, because he confirmed his | 3:53:59 | 3:54:05 | |
time as chancellor, his consent,
consent Mr Speaker, whether sought | 3:54:05 | 3:54:12 | |
by IBS over the departure of
previous CEO. That means, Mr | 3:54:12 | 3:54:17 | |
Speaker, the UK government right now
could reject any closures unless and | 3:54:17 | 3:54:23 | |
until impact assessment had been
carried out, and should require RBS | 3:54:23 | 3:54:28 | |
to ensure the practical and
sustainable banking services are put | 3:54:28 | 3:54:31 | |
in place before any closures are
signed off. It really is time to | 3:54:31 | 3:54:36 | |
call on RBS to reverse these plant
closures. The UK government, the | 3:54:36 | 3:54:41 | |
Minister tonight, has a
responsibility to demonstrate he is | 3:54:41 | 3:54:44 | |
standing up for our communities on
this most important issue. The | 3:54:44 | 3:54:48 | |
Westminster leader, has persuaded
RBS to retrieve ten bridges across | 3:54:48 | 3:54:55 | |
Scotland until impact assessment had
been carried out. I wish those | 3:54:55 | 3:54:58 | |
communities well, but it does
nothing to soften the hard blow to | 3:54:58 | 3:55:02 | |
tell towns of my constituency who
face losing their banks and it has | 3:55:02 | 3:55:07 | |
to be said, it will lose its last
bank branch. In the past, the | 3:55:07 | 3:55:12 | |
Minister has suggested the customers
are not happy can move their | 3:55:12 | 3:55:14 | |
accounts to another bank. What does
he suggest that the people do when | 3:55:14 | 3:55:18 | |
there is no bank for them to move
to? Within a reasonable distance? | 3:55:18 | 3:55:25 | |
Customers have also been advised to
move their accounts to the post | 3:55:25 | 3:55:28 | |
office. I recall ten years ago,
under another government, I recall | 3:55:28 | 3:55:35 | |
having to save post office is. They
were being closed down in my | 3:55:35 | 3:55:41 | |
constituency. Post offices bolted
onto the back of the local spot, | 3:55:41 | 3:55:46 | |
does not provide the range of
services or proceeds that customers | 3:55:46 | 3:55:49 | |
need or deserve. I appeal in good
faith to Minister to ensure that | 3:55:49 | 3:55:53 | |
these closures are halted. That RBS
is ordered to halt, and have impact | 3:55:53 | 3:56:04 | |
assessments. All communities
affected should have nothing left. | 3:56:04 | 3:56:08 | |
And that towns deserve nothing less.
I asked the Minister today, it is he | 3:56:08 | 3:56:12 | |
going to stand with RBS management,
or is he going to a stand with the | 3:56:12 | 3:56:16 | |
communities affected? I urged him to
do the right thing and stand up for | 3:56:16 | 3:56:23 | |
our communities. Here, here. I would
like to sincerely commend for | 3:56:23 | 3:56:34 | |
securing this debate. She has spoken
once again very powerfully on the | 3:56:34 | 3:56:39 | |
half of her constituents. This is an
issue that she is passionate about, | 3:56:39 | 3:56:44 | |
and the RBS executives will note
there are over 20 members of | 3:56:44 | 3:56:47 | |
Parliament here. A number have
spoken and they will want to reflect | 3:56:47 | 3:56:50 | |
on the views that have been
expressed. Since becoming economic | 3:56:50 | 3:56:56 | |
Secretary on the 9th of January, I
had the privilege of responding to a | 3:56:56 | 3:57:01 | |
number of debates on bank branches
closures across the UK, and in | 3:57:01 | 3:57:04 | |
specific local areas. In each one, I
have heard important stories about | 3:57:04 | 3:57:09 | |
what the local bank branch can mean
to the community. I have heard that | 3:57:09 | 3:57:12 | |
again today. It means a great deal
in terms of practical ideas, to | 3:57:12 | 3:57:17 | |
access services, and I will turn to
that point in more detail. It can | 3:57:17 | 3:57:23 | |
also be, banks can be at the heart
of how people feel about their local | 3:57:23 | 3:57:26 | |
street, and the future of their
community. I'm putting my Treasury | 3:57:26 | 3:57:31 | |
response abilities aside, I, myself,
visited a bank in my own | 3:57:31 | 3:57:36 | |
constituency which is facing closure
exactly the same way the honourable | 3:57:36 | 3:57:40 | |
Lady set out. I had to sit down with
the bank manager and go through the | 3:57:40 | 3:57:44 | |
same sorts of arguments. They are
commercial decisions. I will say | 3:57:44 | 3:57:48 | |
more about that. I am not going to
give way, because I only have eight | 3:57:48 | 3:57:52 | |
and a half minutes. I want to do
justice. The Government is very | 3:57:52 | 3:57:59 | |
aware of the issues that have been
raised. I want to now talk about the | 3:57:59 | 3:58:06 | |
challenges that are facing the
banking sector. And facing our | 3:58:06 | 3:58:11 | |
communities at the same time. In a
previous debate, the honourable Lady | 3:58:11 | 3:58:15 | |
has said she does not bank online.
That is her choice. But whatever her | 3:58:15 | 3:58:20 | |
personal preference is, and whatever
our personal preference is, banking | 3:58:20 | 3:58:24 | |
is going through a period of
unprecedented technological change. | 3:58:24 | 3:58:29 | |
Consumer behaviour is changing
significantly, and banks are having | 3:58:29 | 3:58:31 | |
to adapt to those shifting patterns
of behaviour. This decisions that | 3:58:31 | 3:58:37 | |
they are making are sometimes not
popular, and I understand why. The | 3:58:37 | 3:58:41 | |
honourable Lady will be well aware
that those decisions are not for | 3:58:41 | 3:58:44 | |
government. The point was made about
the previous chancellor and former | 3:58:44 | 3:58:52 | |
member, signing off on the cheek
executive post. There is a big | 3:58:52 | 3:58:58 | |
difference between signing off on
the strategic leadership and getting | 3:58:58 | 3:59:04 | |
involved in day-to-day commercial
decisions. Each bank putt branch | 3:59:04 | 3:59:08 | |
strategy. I am not going to give
way. I am going to continue. There | 3:59:08 | 3:59:13 | |
we are. Each bank's bank strategy,
including whether to open or close | 3:59:13 | 3:59:18 | |
individual banks, is for the
management of that bank to | 3:59:18 | 3:59:22 | |
determine. I understand that it's
frustrating. It is frustrating to | 3:59:22 | 3:59:25 | |
all of us. The Government rightly
does not intervene in these | 3:59:25 | 3:59:29 | |
commercial decisions. Nor does the
Government managed the RBS group. | 3:59:29 | 3:59:33 | |
RBS is headed by its own board,
which is responsible for strategic | 3:59:33 | 3:59:39 | |
direction and decisions. All
businesses strive to deliver for | 3:59:39 | 3:59:42 | |
their customers. But they need to be
able to plan for the future and make | 3:59:42 | 3:59:45 | |
the changes were needed. These are
complex commercial decisions. RBS | 3:59:45 | 3:59:50 | |
have made their decisions in line
with their commercial strategy,... | 3:59:50 | 3:59:55 | |
No I will not. They are entitled to
ask questions. And to press RBS on | 3:59:55 | 4:00:02 | |
the rationale. While I do not agree
the Government should or could | 4:00:02 | 4:00:08 | |
cancel RBS decision, I am certain
the honourable Lady's views | 4:00:08 | 4:00:13 | |
expressed here again, on behalf of
her constituents, will have been | 4:00:13 | 4:00:16 | |
hurt by RBS. On the cover-up of that
role, with respect to the post | 4:00:16 | 4:00:23 | |
office, previously, the honourable
Lady has said the Government has not | 4:00:23 | 4:00:26 | |
lifted a finger to help. I must beg
to differ. On this side of the | 4:00:26 | 4:00:32 | |
House, we are taking action, and I
welcome the opportunity to reiterate | 4:00:32 | 4:00:35 | |
that this evening. For those who
still need or want a thinking | 4:00:35 | 4:00:39 | |
person, we have helped to expand and
improve face-to-face banking | 4:00:39 | 4:00:43 | |
services at the post office. Mr
Speaker, there are 11,000 post | 4:00:43 | 4:00:48 | |
office branches in the UK, 11,000
600. There are post offices in the | 4:00:48 | 4:00:58 | |
three count she has mentioned.
Indeed, across the UK, 9% of | 4:00:58 | 4:01:04 | |
personal customers and 95% of
business customers can do their | 4:01:04 | 4:01:08 | |
day-to-day banking there in response
to the member from Edinburgh South | 4:01:08 | 4:01:12 | |
West, who was concerned about the
issue of... I am going to respond to | 4:01:12 | 4:01:16 | |
the points raised. Small businesses
and cash, the RBS bank to offer cash | 4:01:16 | 4:01:24 | |
career services, and post office
can't accept up to 20,000, 2000, and | 4:01:24 | 4:01:32 | |
others can be made on a case-by-case
basis. As the honourable Lady has | 4:01:32 | 4:01:36 | |
mentioned, previously, this might
not be a service that people are | 4:01:36 | 4:01:40 | |
familiar fully with yet, but I
believe it does offer a valuable | 4:01:40 | 4:01:44 | |
alternative. People are adjusting to
the reality of what can be attained | 4:01:44 | 4:01:47 | |
from the post office. It is
important that people who can | 4:01:47 | 4:01:50 | |
benefit from the services know about
them. I will keep pushing both the | 4:01:50 | 4:01:54 | |
banks and the post office to do more
to raise awareness of the expanded | 4:01:54 | 4:01:58 | |
services that they jointly offer. It
is important that they make this | 4:01:58 | 4:02:02 | |
case proactively and publicly. We
should spread the message far and | 4:02:02 | 4:02:07 | |
wide. We can all do our day-to-day
banking services at the post office, | 4:02:07 | 4:02:12 | |
and we in this House can help
reassure people who may be worried | 4:02:12 | 4:02:16 | |
about this issue. In terms of the
oversight of banks, where things do | 4:02:16 | 4:02:22 | |
decide to close branches, the
Government ongoing support for the | 4:02:22 | 4:02:26 | |
industry access to banking standards
is making a difference. All the | 4:02:26 | 4:02:31 | |
major banks have signed up to this
standard. It commits bank to a | 4:02:31 | 4:02:37 | |
number of them... When bank closes.
In some cases, they have given six | 4:02:37 | 4:02:44 | |
months notice. Second, they will
consider what services can still be | 4:02:44 | 4:02:48 | |
provided locally, and communicate
clearly with customers about | 4:02:48 | 4:02:51 | |
alternative ways to bank, and third,
they will ensure that support | 4:02:51 | 4:02:56 | |
customers who need extra help to
bank online or access services at | 4:02:56 | 4:03:01 | |
the post office. The standard is not
just a list of outcomes, it has | 4:03:01 | 4:03:06 | |
teeth. It monitors and enforces this
standard. They are actively | 4:03:06 | 4:03:13 | |
monitoring how RBS and other banks
fulfil their obligations to their | 4:03:13 | 4:03:18 | |
customers when branch is. They have
a range of tools and stations at | 4:03:18 | 4:03:22 | |
their disposal, should a bank fall
short. I know they are very open to | 4:03:22 | 4:03:26 | |
talking to individual members on
behalf of of their communities, and | 4:03:26 | 4:03:31 | |
I was encouraged the honourable Lady
and her colleagues to... No. To do | 4:03:31 | 4:03:37 | |
so, if she has concerns about the
steps RBS is taking or not taking in | 4:03:37 | 4:03:42 | |
her constituency. The access to
banking standards is the practical | 4:03:42 | 4:03:45 | |
way to shape her bank's approach,
and I would encourage all members of | 4:03:45 | 4:03:50 | |
the House on all sides of the House,
to ensure their communities are | 4:03:50 | 4:03:54 | |
aware and able to engage it with the
bank directly. Now, one of the other | 4:03:54 | 4:03:59 | |
issues is about access to cash and
several members have mentioned this. | 4:03:59 | 4:04:03 | |
The Government continues to work
with industry to ensure provision to | 4:04:03 | 4:04:05 | |
the widespread free access to cash,
and in December, the organisation | 4:04:05 | 4:04:11 | |
which runs the ATM, committed to
protecting all ATMs, which are a | 4:04:11 | 4:04:18 | |
kilometre or more from the next one.
This is a for their inclusion | 4:04:18 | 4:04:27 | |
programme, and I hope will reassure
members across the House. The | 4:04:27 | 4:04:30 | |
honourable Lady it hard for her
constituents, in North Ayrshire. As | 4:04:30 | 4:04:38 | |
have a number of members spoken this
evening. I am sure their concerns | 4:04:38 | 4:04:42 | |
have been hurt. We all understand
the frustration and disappointment | 4:04:42 | 4:04:47 | |
caused by bank closures. But, Mr
Speaker, these are not government | 4:04:47 | 4:04:55 | |
decisions. The Government putt
policy remains clear. RBS are | 4:04:55 | 4:04:58 | |
responsible for these decisions, and
RBS must defend them. Banking is | 4:04:58 | 4:05:06 | |
changing. No. Banking is changing
rapidly. We cannot deny that | 4:05:06 | 4:05:10 | |
reality. The Government does not
believe, sorry, the Government does | 4:05:10 | 4:05:17 | |
believe to support communities
across the UK when banks are closed. | 4:05:17 | 4:05:22 | |
We are all deeply engaged with,
trying to find the best solution for | 4:05:22 | 4:05:26 | |
individual communities. We can help
draw attention to these issues and | 4:05:26 | 4:05:30 | |
work constructively to help my
constituencies to access the | 4:05:30 | 4:05:33 | |
services they need. For my part, I
will keep pushing for everyone to | 4:05:33 | 4:05:37 | |
access banking services they need,
wherever they live. The ayes have | 4:05:37 | 4:05:48 | |
it. Order, order. | 4:05:48 | 4:05:59 |