07/11/2011 Inside Out East


07/11/2011

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Tonight we have a special investigation about a woman's fight

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to be reunited with her children. Sam Raw lost contact with her two

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boys after they were held in France by their father. There is me

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praying it is going to go well and they're going to pass me Austin,

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but they don't. The number of abducted children is

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on the increase and some never fully recover from the experience.

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I was incredibly distressed, I thought constantly about ending my

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life. We show what happened when Sam

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tried to rescue her children from France. Just keep driving and hope

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I see somewhere I recognise. That's our special investigation on

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Two years ago, Sam Raw's sons, Dylan and Austin, were abducted by

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their French father. The highest courts in Britain and France

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ordered the children should be returned to their mother. But their

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father has refused to hand them back. Sam hasn't given up and this

:01:21.:01:31.
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summer we followed her as she It doesn't feel like real life. All

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of a sudden I went from family life to a life of grief and strife, you

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know? In one day. The day the children didn't come back.

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Sam Raw who now lives in Norfolk, moved to France with her parents

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when she was 16. I went to college there and I

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became an English teacher and worked in a school in an

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apprenticeship college teaching. And that was where I met Thierry

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who was a panel beater, teaching panel beating in the same school.

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And we got married and had two children, Dylan and Austin.

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Both the boys are now wards of court. Legally this is the only

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picture of them we are allowed to show. Sadly after a couple of years

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Sam's marriage ran into problems. Things deteriorated after about the

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first two years. We clung on for another three, but we came to a

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mutual decision divorce was inevitable.

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Sam went to court and was awarded custody of her two sons. The three

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of them moved to Norfolk, although it was agreed the boys would stay

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with their father during school holidays.

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The arrangements had been going very well for five years. He

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started to not want to bring the children back. I was then having to

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go to court to retrieve the children. It was getting more and

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more difficult for me to trust him to bring the children back.

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Things came to a head in the summer of 2008. Her former husband refused

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to hand the boys back. The High Court here in London and the

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highest courts in France have both ruled Sam's two sons should live

:03:42.:03:46.

with her. But her former husband has repeatedly ignored the court

:03:46.:03:56.
:03:56.:03:56.

orders. HE SPEAKS FRENCH.

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Sam's ex- husband recently appeared in a French documentary about

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custody disputes. He insisted the two boys wanted to stay with him.

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But Sam says her former husband has deliberately tried to turn her

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children against her. The boys are so stiff, you know?

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Very rigid. It just breaks my heart to see that. I know for a fact he

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would sit the children opposite each other and make each other tell

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each other what negative things they could think up about their

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mother. Sam claims her sons are victims of

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parental child abduction. She says her husband poisoned the boys

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against her to the point they wouldn't even speak to her when she

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tried to call them. This is really sad. It's exactly

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how it's been every time I've tried to ring. And of course I'd ring and

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I'd feel nervous before ringing as well because I knew what was about

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to come. There's me just praying it is going

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to go well and they will pass me Austin, but they don't.

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Sam is very concerned about the emotional effect this could be

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having on the two boys, who are now both teenagers.

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To try to help understand what her children are going through

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emotionally, she's off to London to meet someone with first hand

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experience. Sam's battle to recover her two sons has also come at a

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high personal cost. I suffered depression, I was on

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medication for depression. I'm now on medication for post-traumatic

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stress disorder, and the prevention of depression returning. So it is a

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massive impact. The lengthy court battles have also

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taken their toll financially. It's cost me at least �40,000. I

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didn't have much money before, I was struggling before. But you have

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to pay for trips to France, a French lawyer and I've had to beg

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and borrow money from family and friends. I have two credit cards I

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have had to max out. We find the money somehow.

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Sam's meeting a woman who was abducted by her father when she was

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just 12 years old. She's hoping it will give her an insight as to what

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her own son's are going through. Hi, so nice to meet you.

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And you. When her parents relationship broke

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down, Nicky Hewitt and her younger sister were taken to Australia by

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their father. When I was in Australia I

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experienced a lot of propaganda from my father and his whole family.

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Actually telling us we wouldn't be wanted, telling me specifically I

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was unwanted, unloved and even if I went back to England I would be put

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into a children's home and stuff like that. That my mum didn't want

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me at all. Was there a point in Australia where you started to

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understand what was happening? Absolutely, I got it really quickly.

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I twigged very early on and as an adult looking back 21 years ago, I

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can see the manipulation that was going on. How did you cope, how did

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you get through it? Did you feel you had to go along with them?

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I went against them a lot. I fought and I made things difficult for

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people. What impact did this have on you at the time? Mentally I

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wasn't well. I wasn't eating, I wasn't sleeping and I was

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incredibly distressed. I thought constantly about ending my life.

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What an awful position to be in at that age? At 12, and I made plans

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as to how to do it. The only reason I didn't was because of my sister.

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After a court hearing Nicky and her sister were finally returned to

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their mother in the UK. But even 20 years later Nicky is still

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struggling to come to terms with what happened.

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Not only do I have depression but I have post-traumatic stress disorder

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as a result of the abduction. And that's only been diagnosed in the

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past couple of years. There is a whole world of other difficulties I

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have been experiencing and not being able to make sense of them.

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Sam, you just had a chat with Nicky. How was it for you speaking to her

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as the abducted child? Very interesting. What a brave lady to

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come out of it. It has taken her a long time to recover. She is still

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in recovery. I have been trying to get into my children's minds, heads,

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to understand how they are feeling. Which is painful for me to do, and

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listening to Nicky has been a great insight.

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On the way home Sam told me that her custody battle intensified

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following a shocking incident just over two years ago. She went to

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collect her children from France at the end of the school holidays but

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the eldest, Dylan, was unexpectedly violent and punched her several

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times. Sam says her ex-husband had turned the boys against her. She

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came back from France distraught and alone.

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Courts recognise that children in cases like Sam's can be turned

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against a parent. So despite Dylan's violent outburst they've

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repeatedly ordered that Sam's children must be returned. After

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more than two years without seeing her boys, Sam had given up hope of

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a quick resolution. But then recently, events took a

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dramatic twist. Sam's younger son, Austin, contacted one of his

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English friends on Facebook. He had an important message for his mum -

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come and rescue me. My dad and my friend, Wendy, came

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with me. We set off from London. We travelled to France together and we

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were looking at how to navigate round Paris easily so we didn't get

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lost. The journey needed meticulous

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planning. Sam was worried the French authorities could scupper

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the escape. We had planned food and petrol for

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the car. So my dad actually got some money out, made sure we had

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enough cash for the return journey so the French authorities couldn't

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trace us. The planned rescue was fraught with

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risk. The foreign office here in the UK had warned Sam if the French

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authorities caught her trying to take Austin out of the country,

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potentially she could be arrested and Austin returned to his father,

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even though she had court orders in When we got to the village we

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decided to stop in the outskirts somewhere quiet. So we found a

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hotel car park and we had about three hours to wait in the car park

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before we got the call from Austin for the go-ahead. Whilst we were

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waiting in the car park, it occurred to us once outside the

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father's house he may be able to hear the car doors opening and

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closing. So we practised opening the car doors and closing them very

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quietly. We just wanted to make sure Austin remained safe, that he

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wasn't caught by his father. So we were doing everything possible we

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could to make sure that didn't happen. And also, I was desperately

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excited to see him. We needed to keep each other awake. We were very

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tired. We knew we would have a long journey back where we wouldn't be

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able to stop off and sleep but we still had to keep each other awake.

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So we sang songs, told each other jokes.

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We got a phone call from Austin's friend's mother who said Austin had

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sent a message saying can we wait another half an hour because his

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dad wasn't in bed yet. So we said OK, we sent the message back to let

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Austin know it would be fine, we would wait another half an hour. In

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that situation, we found ourselves having to sit on our own anxiety. I

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knew Austin would be much more anxious in his situation than I was.

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We made sure we arrived at 1:30am on the dot outside his father's

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house. We drove up very slowly and turned the lights off. We just

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waited. After about ten minutes there was a figure that came to the

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window and it looked too tall for me to be Austin. And we thought it

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As we were driving off, we were saying to each other, "What do we

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do now? What do we do? We can't go home." If Austin is in trouble I

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don't want to leave him, you know, in this position. And then we got a

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phone call from Austin's best friend's mother, saying, "Austin's

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on Facebook. He's saying, "Turn round. I've been at the window

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watching you, waiting to come out. Turn round, turn round, don't leave

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me here." So at that point we turned round, but I had to go over

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a flyover, and I got lost. I don't recognise this road.

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Just keep driving and just hope I see somewhere I recognise.

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Austin's friend's mother was saying, "Austin's desperate to leave. Can

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you get there quickly?" And we asked him, I asked him, "Can you

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wait till 3pm, just to be sure, to make sure your dad's in bed and

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he's asleep?" And he said, "No, I'm coming out now." And this is while

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we're still lost. And then he logged off Facebook. So I'm

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desperately trying to find the house again and navigate the roads,

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and eventually, in what seemed like an hour we managed to find the

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house, and there was this figure, Austin, with his bags, waiting

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When he saw our car lights, he hid behind the bush, because obviously

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he couldn't be certain it was us until we drew up. And he was there,

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he was actually there, it was him, and he did have his suitcase that

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he'd packed before, and, you know, he really had planned this to a tee.

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My dad got out of the car, helped him put his baggage in the car, his

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luggage, and we drove off slowly, and as soon as we got to the end,

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I was driving, and I got a glint of him getting into the car, and I

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really wanted to hold him, you know, I really wanted to hold him. And I

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drove, because I had to make sure that we got out of France safely,

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you know, kept him safe, and I just kept looking in the rear-view

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mirror and saying to Wendy, "Is it really him, is he really in the

:17:23.:17:33.
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car?" And she went, "Yes, it's But the drama certainly wasn't over.

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Instead of heading straight for the port, the group raced towards

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Belgium, the reason was that Austin didn't have a passport. Without one,

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he wouldn't be getting back into the UK. So they spent a very

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nervous day waiting in a hotel room in Brussels for the British Embassy

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to open. Only once they had a temporary passport for Austin could

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they breathe a sigh of relief. When we got back to England we just

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wanted to kiss the ground, all of us. At last, on safe territory. And

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we can go home and be a family again. Without Dylan, obviously,

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but we're nearly there. Austin's home and he's safe.

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Court orders prevent us from seeing or hearing Austin, but Sam says

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he's glad to be back, and has settled in well. Having managed to

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rescue one of her children, Sam Raw is more determined than ever to

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bring her other son Dylan back to the UK. The judgments at the

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highest courts in the UK and France are clear, Dylan must be returned

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to Sam. But the problem is that the court orders have not been enforced

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The Hague Convention requires France to recognise and act on

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legal judgments made in the UK and vice versa. But it's not happened

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in this instance. Sam's local MP, Norman Lamb, has

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taken up her case. He wants to resolve the situation, so he's gone

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to France on Sam's behalf. I want to meet with the authorities

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and with the father. And I want to try convince them that the court

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order should be enforced, and we have just got to hope that they

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will recognise what should have happened a long time ago, and allow

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Dylan to return home. You just feel as a parent yourself, what must she

:19:42.:19:47.

be going through and how awful it must be. Not just the fact you are

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missing your children, but you fear for their safety. So you do

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everything you can to support her. Norman Lamb is meeting the local

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prosecutor in Poitiers, the region where Sam used to live. The MP

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wants answers as to why Dylan is still living with his dad.

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There was a very bad relationship between the children and the mother.

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The children cannot go back with their mother, given the historical

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behaviour. There was shouting, hitting the mother. Sam says that

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refers to just one emotional meeting.

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The highest courts both here and in the UK are aware of what happened.

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They have ruled it doesn't alter the fact that Sam should have

:20:39.:20:46.

custody of her child. We try to do things so the decision

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can be implemented. But in view of the children and their reticence

:20:51.:20:58.

about living with their mother, we did not implement the decision.

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But as Norman Lamb points out, they have no right to do that. Court

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orders are clearly being breached. Dylan is effectively being held

:21:06.:21:13.

illegally in France. Concerning the fact that it has not

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been possible to implement the decision of the Court of Appeal, it

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shows its difficulty. But at the same time, it's very difficult for

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someone to take a child of 13, 14, 15 from one country to another

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between two policeman. It would cause me big difficulties to say to

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two police officers, "Take this child." Although Norman learns why

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the order had not been implemented, it doesn't seem as if any real

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progress has been made. How did it go?

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Well, pretty frustrating, to be honest. I mean, he gave us a lot of

:21:50.:21:53.

time, but I was struck by just how different things are here compared

:21:53.:22:00.

to the UK. In the United Kingdom, if there is a court order, it will

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be complied with, as the authorities will make sure that

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happens. Here, the court makes a decision, and they carry on

:22:08.:22:16.

regardless and make their own decision.

:22:16.:22:20.

Norman Lamb's next stop is a large town on the west coast of France

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called le Roche sur Yon. It's the home of Sam's ex-husband, Thierry

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Giraudeau. He's agreed to meet the MP to discuss the issue of custody.

:22:32.:22:36.

I've come now to see Sam's ex- husband. I thought we were going to

:22:36.:22:39.

see him in his own home, but we have been directed to his lawyer's

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office. So that's where we will see him.

:22:44.:22:51.

Bonjour. Norman Lamb. Merci. My plan is, and I've talked to Sam

:22:52.:22:56.

about this, is to try and move forward. There is inevitably going

:22:56.:22:58.

to be irreconcilable differences about the past, but let's try and

:22:59.:23:01.

think positively about the way forward, let's try to rebuild

:23:01.:23:10.

relationships and give Sam the chance to see her son again.

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The appointment is for midday. Norman's a few minutes early, he

:23:14.:23:21.

waits with the lawyer for Thierry to arrive.

:23:21.:23:25.

Also in La Roche is Sam. She's hoping Norman can help broker a

:23:25.:23:32.

meeting with her son. It's the first time since the rescue of

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Austin that Sam's been back. She finds it very painful being here.

:23:39.:23:45.

Being back makes me feel nervous. I look around me, and all I see are

:23:46.:23:55.

buildings that remind me of horrific events. The school where

:23:55.:23:57.

the children were being illegally detained, the gendarmerie, there is

:23:57.:24:07.

nobody in authority I can trust here.

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In the lawyer's office, Norman Lamb is still waiting for Thierry, who

:24:10.:24:17.

is now over an hour late for the planned meeting.

:24:17.:24:25.

His lawyer then receives a text message. It's bad news.

:24:25.:24:31.

"I'm in the hospital. I couldn't predict it. You have to explain it.

:24:31.:24:36.

Goodbye. Thank you." Norman wonders if the message is genuine, or

:24:36.:24:40.

whether Thierry has just changed his mind about meeting. It's a blow,

:24:40.:24:43.

especially for Sam, who was desperate to see her son.

:24:43.:24:50.

Well, Sam, he didn't turn up. He didn't turn up. He eventually,

:24:50.:24:53.

after an hour, he texted the lawyer to say that he was in hospital,

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that he'd gone to hospital and couldn't come. Who knows whether

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it's true. So it ended up with me talking to the lawyer. I told him

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eventually that you were here, I said that you were obviously very

:25:10.:25:17.

keen to see Dylan, could he help to fix up a meeting? Obviously, you

:25:17.:25:21.

waiting here for the rest of the day, there is just a chance, I

:25:21.:25:24.

don't know how high that chance is, but there is a possibility of you

:25:24.:25:33.

seeing Dylan, but I don't want to build up your hopes at all.

:25:33.:25:37.

Sam did wait. But the call from her ex-husband never came. She didn't

:25:37.:25:41.

get to see her son. The trip to France had been a big

:25:41.:25:48.

A month on, and back home in Norfolk, it's a chance for Sam and

:25:48.:25:52.

Norman Lamb to catch up. We exchanged e-mails with the

:25:52.:26:00.

lawyer, but he hasn't contacted me since then. I haven't e-mailed him

:26:00.:26:03.

because I felt I shouldn't without your permission, and I wanted to

:26:03.:26:09.

discuss that further with you. But so far, nothing further to report,

:26:09.:26:13.

I'm afraid. But Sam has some good news to tell

:26:13.:26:16.

Norman. She's taking her case to the European Court of Human Rights,

:26:16.:26:21.

and she has just heard the action will be fast-tracked. She hopes the

:26:21.:26:27.

court will force the French authorities to hand over Dylan.

:26:27.:26:30.

Is there a way forward for Sam at this point?

:26:30.:26:32.

Sam's absolutely right to be pursuing the European Court of

:26:32.:26:35.

Human Rights route, and the fact that they are fast-tracking it is

:26:35.:26:41.

fantastic news. I still have anxieties that it will

:26:41.:26:44.

take a long time, but let's just hope that it forces France to

:26:44.:26:50.

comply with the law. We have this extraordinary situation that the

:26:50.:26:53.

French state is complicit really in allowing a court order not to be

:26:53.:26:55.

enforced, and that is an extraordinary situation for EU

:26:55.:27:05.

country to be in. A ruling from the European Court of

:27:05.:27:08.

Human Rights could come early next year, but after all the setbacks

:27:08.:27:14.

she suffered over the years, Sam struggles to remain optimistic.

:27:14.:27:21.

It's very distressing. I find it really hard to be in this room. I

:27:21.:27:24.

think as time is going on, I am finding it harder and harder to

:27:24.:27:31.

come in, because I'm dusting a dead room, basically. And sometimes it

:27:31.:27:34.

seems pointless, and sometimes I get the hope back and it comes back

:27:34.:27:41.

again. His belongings are all around the house. We are surrounded

:27:41.:27:45.

by Dylan in the house. He is part of the house.

:27:45.:27:48.

Do you think that's important to keep that hope alive by having this

:27:48.:27:52.

room ready for him should he come home?

:27:52.:28:02.
:28:02.:28:03.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, he's my child. I love him. I just feel so

:28:03.:28:13.
:28:13.:28:14.

desperate that he is in this If you've been affected by anything

:28:14.:28:17.

in tonight's programme, you can get in touch with the charity Reunite.

:28:17.:28:20.

If there is something we should investigate, send me an e-mail -

:28:20.:28:27.

[email protected]. I will see you next week, and I'll be back

:28:27.:28:33.

Next week, we investigate why this man is one of thousands being

:28:33.:28:38.

wrongly assessed as fit to work. After 12 months of extreme

:28:38.:28:44.

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