28/11/2011 Inside Out East

Hi. Tonight I'm in St Neots with more stories from where you live.

Jenny lost her business, because the Post Office say �9000 went

missing. She says the fault is in the Post Office computer. We are

going to see this through we are going to beat them we are going to

be vindicated. Living with Alzheimer's. Bob used to build

luxury cars. Now he struggles with simple tasks. And the theatre

project that's helping people with dementia. That's tonight's Inside

Hello. And welcome to St Neots. A community relies on its Post Office

but some have closed because the people who run them have been

accused of fiddling the books. They say they've done nothing wrong,

that there must be a computer problem, but so far no-one has been

able to find anything wrong. I've been investigating. Jenny O'Dell

ran a Post Office at Great Staughton in Cambridgeshire for

nine years. She planned to run it until she retired then Post Office

Ltd closed her down. We thought we were all set for the next 20 odd

years. It would enable my son to have his music career. My husband,

he needs a new hip but it is not bad enough, we thought it could be

done privately. We can't now. You have no idea but we are strong. We

are going to see this through. We are going to beat them we are going

to be vindicated. She feels so strongly because she believes she

has done nothing wrong and has not been convicted of any offence.

Millions of transactions are dealt with every week by the Post Office

and most of them now have nothing to do with the post. Your modern

post office carries our all sorts of services. Tax discs, banking,

even lottery tickets. And all these transactions are recorded on a

centralised computer system called Horizon. But some Post Office staff

have been convicted of theft or false accounting, even though they

say they have taken nothing. They insist it is a fault with the

computer system. Under their contracts, sub-postmasters are

personally liable for any shortfalls in their business. Last

year, the Horizon system appeared to show Jenny owed the Post Office

thousands of pounds. I did my balancing each month. You always

imagine it to be a little under or over but the first time it was over

�1000 wrong and I thought it was human error. But the following

month when it was another �1000 I realised it wasn't and it was the

system and then month after month when it was a �1000 and another

�1000. They sent in the auditors in the January and I thought, oh well,

this is the answer to my prayers. They are going to find it, they are

going to find out what the problems are. And unfortunately they didn't

and they found it was �9,000 at a loss. And I kept saying to them,

"It's the system". And all they kept saying is, "No, it can't be".

At the time, Jenny thought she was the only one who had had problems

but she was not alone. The Post Office here in Castle Hedingham

used to be in the local shop just over the road, until the owner, Ian

Warren, was convicted of theft. Ian had been its postmaster for three

and a half years until he was suspended in 2008. I had a mystery

message pop up on the screen, "You have an error of �17,000 do you

want to transfer this to suspense?" I did a double take. �17,000 is a

huge amount of money for a Post Office of this size and I had no

inkling. I knew I had to deal with it the following morning. Ian did

not see the error message again so assumed it had just gone away. His

mistake was not to challenge the computer's figures, but to sign

them off knowing they were wrong. By doing that he was telling the

Post Office everything was fine when it wasn't, which amounts to

false accounting - a criminal offence. It's not false accounting

in the normal sense because we don't do any accounting. It is

absolutely impossible for me to fraudulently make an entry on the

Horizon system. It is always backed up by something and totally visible

to them. Ian pleaded guilty and got a suspended sentence. Since filming

he has sold up and moved away from Essex. Graham Ward ran the Post

Office at Rivenhall, also in Essex. He was suspended after a �10,000

loss was built up over a period of time and he is also packing up his

shop for good. He thinks he has worked out what went wrong.

accounting errors that happened to me are all due to how the Post

Office processes its cheques. You do a transaction on the computer

which is transmitted to their computer and then it is also

transmitted on to the processing people. Somewhere within that that

line something got lost. It only happens intermittently. It has

happened four or five times. Once that occurs, a figure appears in

one side of the accounting system in your particular branch, and you

have a choice. You either pay up and pay the money or leave it there.

But you end up building up month on month a very large discrepancy,

that is what happened to me. these accounting problems vary and

some sub-postmasters have never encountered any faults. Antony

Blackman runs the Post Office in Mattishall, in Norfolk. Have you

ever had any problems with the Horizon computer system? Not in my

experience, no, none whatsoever, no problems at all really. You get

glitches, glitches with computers, normal things, but they sort

themselves out. So you have never encountered any accounting errors

when you have come to the end of your business day? And then

something has been thrown up and you can't work through and where it

has come from? No, nothing of the sort, no. Like Antony, most sub-

postmasters use Horizon every day with no serious issues. But there

are now hundreds who say they have had accounting problems where

transactions have gone wrong. So could there be some underlying

problem, possibly an intermittent one, not picked up by the Post

Office? When someone is relying on the evidence of one computer system

there are many possibilities on what might have gone wrong. Some of

the cases might be explained by fraud, whether that is at the

postmasters side or at the Post Some of it could be human error

when it was successful. But we can't rule out the possibility it

could be a flaw in the computer system. The computer could be

producing the wrong results even though it has been given the

correct input because at some point, maybe years ago, some programmer

has misunderstood something has made a mistake. And therefore the

computer in some cases isn't functioning in the way you would

expect. The more challenging types of bugs are ones that happen at

unpredictable times and have unpredictable results. So while it

might look from the outside that these are all different cases, it

could be that it is down to one particular flaw or one of several

different flaws. We asked the Post Office if there is anything wrong

with Horizon? They gave us this statement: The Post Office is fully

confident that the Horizon computer system in all its branches enable

sub postmasters to account accurately for the transactions

they record. It said the system has operated for over ten years. In

that time thousands of sub- postmasters have used it. It has

been rigorously tested and the National Federation of Sub

Postmasters has expressed its full confidence in the accuracy and

robustness of the system. The Post Office is one of the few bodies in

the country that still has the power to carry out its own

investigations. Dozens of sub- postmasters have now lost their

Post Offices as a result these investigations. They closed me down

after an audit in September 2008, and that's really been it. The

final thing on the appeal hearing was they said I was not competent

to run a Post Office. How does that sit with you? How has it affected

your life? I am currently in the process of selling the shop. I have

about a month left here which means I will loose my income and my home.

My wife has left me. I only see my kids every other weekend. So it has

affected me. Graham Ward has lost his Post Office but he has not been

prosecuted for theft or false accounting, and he says there is no

evidence to show where the money has gone. He is one of a group now

pursuing legal action to try and clear his name. And Jenny is

handing her case to the same solicitors. There are now 89 sub-

postmasters who have contacted the firm over problems with Horizon.

There are a number of factors but it all seems to come down

ultimately to what is stored in the computer system. Once you have met

these individuals, what you do find is, they are very good citizens.

They all come with the same story. They wanted to be part of the

community they are very believable and when you have such numbers. It

has to be more than coincidence that this is happening to such a

large number right across the county. There are bound to be

dishonest sub-postmasters, just as there are dishonest people in all

walks of life. And the Post Office has every right to pursue law-

breakers. But some of those accused of false accounting insist they

were not dishonest, but were let down by the system and didn't get

the support they needed. computer is infallible the sooner

the Post Office accepts this, the better. They won't let anyone

outside their people look at their system. Even the banks can't do

that. Any significant computer system will have far more possible

input scenarios than can be tested, so any of those can trigger

incorrect operations. In the latest development, the Post Office has

been asked by an MP if any operational faults had been

identified, and how many complaints it has received from sub

postmasters concerning difficulties with the system. To date this

information has not yet been received. But the Post Office told

Inside Out that the Horizon system has always been subject to external

scrutiny. It also told us that in all three cases there was

absolutely no evidence to suggest the losses were down to computer

error. If there's something you think we should investigate, email

me. [email protected]. There are 750,000 people with dementia in

the UK and that number is predicted to rise to more than a million in

10 years time. Alzheimers disease is the most common form of the

disorder. There is no cure but it is possible to make life better for

people with the disease. Helen McDermott has been to meet some

people with Alzheimers, to learn more about their lives and to show

how a bit of theatre can bring back memories. It is nearly three years

since Bob Tonks was diagnosed with Alzheimer's. You've got to just

take these again over the air and then you will come back. Come

across here and Helen can talk to both of us then. Is that all right?

I am going overnight to the table and setting the table. Once you

have done that come back. Then come back and I will give you these. Is

that all right? Bob and his wife, Jill, recently moved from their

home in Essex to this sheltered housing complex in Kessingland in

Suffolk. How did you notice that things were wrong with Bob? He had

been forgetting things for quite a long time. He used to be able to do

electrical jobs and DIY jobs, it he was no longer able to do it. He was

in the shower one day and he called me and said, what do I do next? I

do not know how to turn the shower taps on. I think I need to see a

doctor. Were you aware of what was going on at the time? Yes. And how

was it for you when you find out that he had this condition?

thought all along that he had this problem but when the consultant

actually said he had got Alzheimer's it was devastating. I

looked at him. I did not know how he would take it. That was what

worried me more than anything. you able to take it in, what he

said? Not really. I do not think he has ever, he knows he has got

Alzheimer's and he talks about it to other people. He admits there is

nothing wrong in that. But I know a lot of people will not admit to it.

Bob, do you get upset at all? The you sometimes sort of share

this together? Your whole life is changing, isn't it? Definitely. We

do, we should things together. It took 18 months to diagnose Bob's

Alzheimers. The disease is the most common cause of dementia, affecting

nearly half a million people in the country. One in three of us will

die with dementia. Drugs are available but they can only slow

down the speed of the disease, not stop it altogether. Next week we

need to go into Town and sort things out for our holiday. You

need to get some new trousers, OK? Alzheimer's affects the way the

brain transmits messages and also causes brain cells to die. Symptoms

include becoming confused and forgetful. It's a progressive

disease and over time symptoms become more severe. Despite

advances in medication, there's currently no cure. A lot of people

leave it and think it is just our age and losing our memory which

lots of people do but it is not always that. Often it can be

Alzheimer's or some form of dementia. I going early enough they

can help. Despite Bob's condition, the couple are trying to lead a

normal life as possible. They're shortly off to Italy on holiday.

am really looking forward to going to Lake Garda and going on the

ferry. It seems like ages since he went on the ferry. We will have a

nice meal and go up on deck, hopefully the sun will be shining

and it will be like old times. While looking forward to their

holiday in Italy, Jill admits it could be quite stressful. And fears

it could be her and Bob's last ever foreign trip. Right, Bob, it just

take your time and let the sort do the work. Keep your fingers away

from that. -- the saw. Bob's always been a practical person. He used to

work on the production line making Jaguar cars and also ran his own

transport company. But now he finds it increasingly difficult to do

even simple tasks. Do you find it frustrating not being able to do

little tasks? What, by example? cannot think. There are just little

things. I used to be able to go and do it straight away but now I just

can't do that. What is it like for your lung lady who has to look

after you? -- young lady. My wife? It must be hard for you. In many

ways you seem perfectly OK. I know. A lot of people would think there

is nothing wrong at all. I mean, you wouldn't believe it, but I am

having a conversation with you and all of a sudden I don't know what

I've been talking about. I don't know what I am doing. Yeah? So

could that happen now while you're making something? I could. But I

don't make it do that to show you or anything. It will just go, you

know, gone. Bob is given a day when he goes with the maintenance man

here. They have knitted together so well. He takes them for four hours

and he helps do all the odd jobs around here. How does that help

him? It gives him new things to think about. Instead of here --

being here watching television all be it has given him something to do.

Doctors say that mental stimulation of the kind Bob's getting is really

beneficial for people with Alzheimer's. It can slow down the

effects of the disease, although it can never stop it, as Alzheimer's

is incurable. Where are you going for your holiday? You are going

away abroad? Yeah. Can you remember where you are going on holiday?

Somewhere like Spain? No. Where does the Cup come from? What Cup,

the World Cup? Don't think like that or you will never get it. In

her... What Cup are we talking about? It is nothing to do with a

cup. Just leave me and I might remember. Where does the cook here

come from? The cook? Roberto? Italy! I am going to Italy for my

holiday. Can you bring me aqua Natal back? -- a Cornetto. It's not

just practical work that can help those with Alzheimer's. There are

other kinds of mental stimulation, other ways to prompt memories.

may wonder why am I am being made up. I came up with an idea to put

on a special play. The play is specially aimed at people with

Alzheimer's. It is about the Coronation of 1953, Queen Elizabeth.

It is about a family getting ready for a street party and a husband

decides as a surprise for his wife to bring a television into the home.

In those days very few people had televisions. The idea was for them

to watch the Coronation on the television. Because it is for

people with dementia and Alzheimer's it is important it

feels right. Things like costume are very important. We are

interacting with them as well and it helps to unlock those memories

of before. I remember a time when we did a show in a home and this

lady was completely non responsive. Her Alzheimer's was quite advanced.

She had her head down during the entire play until we started doing

the sing-song. Then she just knew the words straight away. She was

singing along and responding. Hallow, Dorothy, sorry, love.

People with Alzheimer's frequently have very poor short term memories.

But their long term memories are often much better and that is what

the play is hoping to stimulate. wanted to write a play that would

invoke memories to bring up and experience that they would enjoy a

whiff artifacts from a time long ago all but probably quite fresh in

their memories. I did not know anything about dementia when I

started. Finding out about it has been fascinating. It is rewarding

knowing that we are giving them something which they probably do

not often expedience. We will switch the music on. Cheer us all

up. We will waive these later, who would like a flag? Watching the

play with interest is Phil Wells from Age UK. He believes the show

has real benefit in improving the quality of life for people with

Alzheimer's. Mental stimulation is really important for people with

Alzheimer's. We know that the more active the brain is the easier it

is to maintain capacity. It is also important because it makes life

enjoyable. We forget at being alive should be a fun thing, even if you

have Alzheimer's. You would go to a stupid old street party for me?

happen to like street parties, I cannot think of anything better.

You can see from the response of the audience how important these

things can be. What has happened in the past can be much more pressing

to them than today. It is tremendously comforting for people.

It is dancing time, whether you like it or not! Do not read on

cornets tales. It has definitely achieved what I set out to do. It

has been wonderful hearing the response from the audience, the

murmurs of recognition. They are laughing and really joining in.

Sometimes they call out to the actors and really interact with

them. The show itself is only part of the event, there's a twist at

the end the audience are invited to a street party. Actors and audience

can mingle and hopefully reminisce. It's a chance to find out if the

theatre therapy has worked. Did you enjoy the show? I did. What did you

like best about it? Most of it I was part of it. Really? You

remember the time, do you? Do you recall some of the things on the

table and the songs? I do not know. Do You Remember the coronation at

all? At I do remember. Do you remember that sort of television?

Yes, we had one. We had it for years. That thing with the brands

like that. Amazing, of course. It was black-and-white then, wasn't

it? The air. -- yeah. The event seems to have done its job and has

certainly impressed our expert. is really important to be able to

use something like this where you know that people are being engaged.

A Of course there's a cost to putting on these events. It's not

something that can be done every day. But until there is a cure for

Alzheimer's, activities like this can play a real part in improving

And if are concerned about Alzheimer's, you can contact the

Alzheimer's Society. That's it from St Neots. Anything you want to get

in touch with me at all, [email protected].

Twitter@davidinsideout. See you next week. Next week: After the

tragic events in Northampton last month, we investigate nightclub