18/02/2013 Inside Out North East and Cumbria


18/02/2013

Similar Content

Browse content similar to 18/02/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

In the next half-hour, the country In the next half-hour, the country

:00:05.:00:06.

In the next half-hour, the country house that's in the bargain

:00:06.:00:08.

house that's in the bargain house that's in the bargain

:00:08.:00:09.

basement. We ask why Durham County basement. We ask why Durham County

:00:09.:00:10.

basement. We ask why Durham County basement. We ask why Durham County

:00:10.:00:14.

Council let a stately pile go for a Council let a stately pile go for a

:00:14.:00:15.

Council let a stately pile go for a snip. These are people who always

:00:15.:00:16.

snip. These are people who always snip. These are people who always

:00:16.:00:16.

snip. These are people who always say they do not have enough money

:00:16.:00:17.

say they do not have enough money say they do not have enough money

:00:17.:00:18.

say they do not have enough money say they do not have enough money

:00:18.:00:19.

to do this or do that and when they to do this or do that and when they

:00:19.:00:20.

to do this or do that and when they to do this or do that and when they

:00:20.:00:21.

have had a pot of gold, given it have had a pot of gold, given it

:00:21.:00:22.

have had a pot of gold, given it have had a pot of gold, given it

:00:22.:00:23.

have had a pot of gold, given it away as if it was a pot of honey.

:00:23.:00:24.

away as if it was a pot of honey. away as if it was a pot of honey.

:00:24.:00:27.

We relive one of Tyneside's darkest We relive one of Tyneside's darkest

:00:27.:00:27.

We relive one of Tyneside's darkest hour. 20 years after the collapse

:00:27.:00:31.

hour. 20 years after the collapse hour. 20 years after the collapse

:00:31.:00:32.

of Wallsend's iconic shipyard. of Wallsend's iconic shipyard.

:00:32.:00:33.

of Wallsend's iconic shipyard. I walked into Swan Hunters this

:00:33.:00:34.

I walked into Swan Hunters this I walked into Swan Hunters this

:00:34.:00:37.

morning it was like desolation row. morning it was like desolation row.

:00:37.:00:38.

morning it was like desolation row. It's heartbreaking. And what price

:00:38.:00:41.

It's heartbreaking. And what price It's heartbreaking. And what price

:00:41.:00:41.

It's heartbreaking. And what price loyalty? We add up the cost of

:00:41.:00:42.

loyalty? We add up the cost of loyalty? We add up the cost of

:00:42.:00:43.

following your team. A lot of following your team. A lot of

:00:43.:00:44.

following your team. A lot of people refuse to go to Tottenham,

:00:44.:00:45.

people refuse to go to Tottenham, people refuse to go to Tottenham,

:00:45.:00:46.

Arsenal, and Chelsea as well. It's Arsenal, and Chelsea as well. It's

:00:46.:00:47.

Arsenal, and Chelsea as well. It's because the ticket price is an

:00:47.:00:49.

because the ticket price is an because the ticket price is an

:00:49.:00:49.

absolute disgrace. Stories from the absolute disgrace. Stories from the

:00:49.:00:50.

absolute disgrace. Stories from the absolute disgrace. Stories from the

:00:50.:00:51.

heart of the North East and Cumbria. heart of the North East and Cumbria.

:00:51.:01:01.
:01:01.:01:08.

heart of the North East and Cumbria. This is Inside Out. In cash-

:01:08.:01:09.

This is Inside Out. In cash- This is Inside Out. In cash-

:01:09.:01:10.

This is Inside Out. In cash- strapped times we are all after a

:01:10.:01:11.

strapped times we are all after a strapped times we are all after a

:01:11.:01:12.

strapped times we are all after a bargain but it looks like a house

:01:12.:01:13.

bargain but it looks like a house bargain but it looks like a house

:01:13.:01:13.

bargain but it looks like a house buyer in County Durham got a real

:01:13.:01:14.

buyer in County Durham got a real buyer in County Durham got a real

:01:14.:01:15.

buyer in County Durham got a real deal, bagging a stately home for a

:01:15.:01:16.

deal, bagging a stately home for a deal, bagging a stately home for a

:01:16.:01:22.

cost of a three bed semi. cost of a three bed semi.

:01:22.:01:23.

Windlestone Hall near Bishop Windlestone Hall near Bishop

:01:23.:01:25.

Windlestone Hall near Bishop Auckland was one of the North's

:01:25.:01:25.

Auckland was one of the North's Auckland was one of the North's

:01:25.:01:26.

grandest homes, so why in these grandest homes, so why in these

:01:26.:01:27.

grandest homes, so why in these times of austerity to the local

:01:27.:01:29.

times of austerity to the local times of austerity to the local

:01:29.:01:34.

council agree to a rock bottom council agree to a rock bottom

:01:34.:01:34.

council agree to a rock bottom price? PHONE RINGS Good afternoon,

:01:34.:01:44.

price? PHONE RINGS Good afternoon, price? PHONE RINGS Good afternoon,

:01:44.:01:44.

Jean speaking. There are some Jean speaking. There are some

:01:44.:01:45.

Jean speaking. There are some Jean speaking. There are some

:01:45.:01:46.

really nice properties to be had in really nice properties to be had in

:01:46.:01:47.

really nice properties to be had in this part of West Durham. We're

:01:47.:01:48.

this part of West Durham. We're this part of West Durham. We're

:01:48.:01:49.

talking three, four bedroom houses talking three, four bedroom houses

:01:49.:01:50.

talking three, four bedroom houses talking three, four bedroom houses

:01:50.:01:51.

- asking price around a quarter of - asking price around a quarter of

:01:51.:01:52.

- asking price around a quarter of - asking price around a quarter of

:01:52.:01:52.

a million. But what if you want a million. But what if you want

:01:52.:01:53.

a million. But what if you want something a bit bigger? Maybe with

:01:53.:01:54.

something a bit bigger? Maybe with something a bit bigger? Maybe with

:01:54.:01:55.

something a bit bigger? Maybe with something a bit bigger? Maybe with

:01:55.:01:56.

a bit of land and how about a bit a bit of land and how about a bit

:01:56.:01:57.

a bit of land and how about a bit of history too? Like this for

:01:57.:01:58.

of history too? Like this for of history too? Like this for

:01:58.:01:59.

example - Windlestone Hall, set in example - Windlestone Hall, set in

:01:59.:02:00.

example - Windlestone Hall, set in parkland and with the same floor

:02:00.:02:01.

parkland and with the same floor parkland and with the same floor

:02:01.:02:02.

parkland and with the same floor space as about 40 family homes. It

:02:02.:02:04.

space as about 40 family homes. It space as about 40 family homes. It

:02:04.:02:05.

comes with top drawer connections. comes with top drawer connections.

:02:05.:02:06.

comes with top drawer connections. Windlestone Hall has a fine

:02:06.:02:07.

Windlestone Hall has a fine Windlestone Hall has a fine

:02:07.:02:08.

Windlestone Hall has a fine pedigree, it was built for one of

:02:08.:02:09.

pedigree, it was built for one of pedigree, it was built for one of

:02:09.:02:10.

North's leading families and it was North's leading families and it was

:02:10.:02:11.

North's leading families and it was the childhood home of British Prime

:02:11.:02:15.

the childhood home of British Prime minister Anthony Eden. We've

:02:15.:02:16.

minister Anthony Eden. We've acknowledged its significance by

:02:17.:02:26.
:02:27.:02:30.

acknowledged its significance by acknowledged its significance by

:02:30.:02:31.

acknowledged its significance by listing it. The Hall is Grade II

:02:31.:02:32.

listing it. The Hall is Grade II listing it. The Hall is Grade II

:02:32.:02:32.

listing it. The Hall is Grade II Star, the clock tower is also Grade

:02:32.:02:34.

Star, the clock tower is also Grade Star, the clock tower is also Grade

:02:34.:02:35.

II Star. So the architectural II Star. So the architectural

:02:35.:02:36.

II Star. So the architectural qualities of those buildings are

:02:36.:02:41.

qualities of those buildings are significant, very significant.

:02:41.:02:42.

significant, very significant. significant, very significant.

:02:42.:02:44.

Hall came into council hands when Hall came into council hands when

:02:44.:02:44.

Hall came into council hands when the Edens left and the surrounding

:02:44.:02:47.

the Edens left and the surrounding the Edens left and the surrounding

:02:47.:02:48.

estate was auctioned off. It was estate was auctioned off. It was

:02:48.:02:49.

estate was auctioned off. It was estate was auctioned off. It was

:02:49.:02:50.

last used as a school for children last used as a school for children

:02:50.:02:51.

with emotional and behavioral with emotional and behavioral

:02:51.:02:52.

with emotional and behavioral problems, but in 2006 the school

:02:52.:02:53.

problems, but in 2006 the school problems, but in 2006 the school

:02:53.:02:54.

problems, but in 2006 the school was relocated to a new site and the

:02:54.:02:55.

was relocated to a new site and the was relocated to a new site and the

:02:55.:02:56.

Hall was no longer needed.. Hall was no longer needed..

:02:56.:02:57.

Hall was no longer needed.. Concerned about the costs of upkeep,

:02:57.:02:58.

Concerned about the costs of upkeep, Concerned about the costs of upkeep,

:02:58.:03:01.

the council decided to sell. That the council decided to sell. That

:03:01.:03:04.

the council decided to sell. That big one. Pick it up. John

:03:04.:03:05.

big one. Pick it up. John big one. Pick it up. John

:03:05.:03:06.

Cumberland runs a metal recycling Cumberland runs a metal recycling

:03:06.:03:07.

Cumberland runs a metal recycling business in Shildon and lives on

:03:07.:03:10.

business in Shildon and lives on the old Windlestone estate.

:03:10.:03:11.

the old Windlestone estate. the old Windlestone estate.

:03:11.:03:13.

Windlestone Hall is a jewel. We're Windlestone Hall is a jewel. We're

:03:13.:03:14.

Windlestone Hall is a jewel. We're proud this, we're proud of our

:03:14.:03:16.

proud this, we're proud of our proud this, we're proud of our

:03:16.:03:16.

heritage. And Windlestone Hall and heritage. And Windlestone Hall and

:03:16.:03:17.

heritage. And Windlestone Hall and the Eden family I mean, for

:03:17.:03:18.

the Eden family I mean, for the Eden family I mean, for

:03:18.:03:19.

goodness sake, Sir Anthony Eden, goodness sake, Sir Anthony Eden,

:03:19.:03:20.

goodness sake, Sir Anthony Eden, our former prime minister, was

:03:20.:03:21.

our former prime minister, was our former prime minister, was

:03:21.:03:22.

brought up there, during the Second brought up there, during the Second

:03:22.:03:23.

brought up there, during the Second brought up there, during the Second

:03:23.:03:24.

World War it was used as a hospital, World War it was used as a hospital,

:03:24.:03:25.

World War it was used as a hospital, World War it was used as a hospital,

:03:25.:03:26.

it was also a prison, it's been it was also a prison, it's been

:03:26.:03:27.

it was also a prison, it's been used as a school for delicate

:03:27.:03:29.

used as a school for delicate used as a school for delicate

:03:29.:03:30.

children. It's had various uses and children. It's had various uses and

:03:30.:03:31.

children. It's had various uses and children. It's had various uses and

:03:31.:03:32.

the Council have had their pound of the Council have had their pound of

:03:32.:03:34.

the Council have had their pound of the Council have had their pound of

:03:34.:03:35.

flesh out of the place. To me they flesh out of the place. To me they

:03:35.:03:36.

flesh out of the place. To me they flesh out of the place. To me they

:03:36.:03:39.

seem to have discarded it like an seem to have discarded it like an

:03:39.:03:40.

seem to have discarded it like an old rag. The Hall attracted several

:03:40.:03:42.

old rag. The Hall attracted several old rag. The Hall attracted several

:03:42.:03:43.

potential buyers. The front runners potential buyers. The front runners

:03:43.:03:44.

potential buyers. The front runners were property developers who put in

:03:44.:03:45.

were property developers who put in were property developers who put in

:03:45.:03:46.

were property developers who put in a multi million pound bid to do it

:03:46.:03:47.

a multi million pound bid to do it a multi million pound bid to do it

:03:47.:03:48.

up into luxury flats, and build up into luxury flats, and build

:03:48.:03:53.

up into luxury flats, and build up into luxury flats, and build

:03:53.:03:54.

more homes on the site. Until now more homes on the site. Until now

:03:54.:03:55.

more homes on the site. Until now they've never spoken out about the

:03:55.:03:56.

they've never spoken out about the they've never spoken out about the

:03:56.:03:57.

they've never spoken out about the case. We were going to restore the

:03:57.:03:58.

case. We were going to restore the case. We were going to restore the

:03:58.:03:58.

case. We were going to restore the house and keep all of the original

:03:58.:03:59.

house and keep all of the original house and keep all of the original

:03:59.:04:00.

house and keep all of the original features and also to get rid of a

:04:00.:04:01.

features and also to get rid of a features and also to get rid of a

:04:01.:04:02.

lot of the new build that lot of the new build that

:04:02.:04:03.

lot of the new build that surrounded the Hall, which was

:04:03.:04:04.

surrounded the Hall, which was unsightly and certainly

:04:04.:04:05.

unsightly and certainly unsympathetic, and do some

:04:05.:04:06.

unsympathetic, and do some replacement development for that

:04:06.:04:07.

replacement development for that replacement development for that

:04:07.:04:08.

new build, and then potentially new build, and then potentially

:04:08.:04:08.

new build, and then potentially build some further development, out

:04:08.:04:09.

build some further development, out build some further development, out

:04:09.:04:10.

build some further development, out build some further development, out

:04:10.:04:19.

of site of the Hall, in some of the of site of the Hall, in some of the

:04:19.:04:20.

of site of the Hall, in some of the woodland areas. So it could have

:04:20.:04:21.

woodland areas. So it could have woodland areas. So it could have

:04:21.:04:22.

woodland areas. So it could have easily been up to three million.

:04:22.:04:23.

easily been up to three million. easily been up to three million.

:04:23.:04:24.

easily been up to three million. far as we were concerned it was

:04:24.:04:26.

far as we were concerned it was far as we were concerned it was

:04:26.:04:27.

ours. The developers put down a ours. The developers put down a

:04:27.:04:28.

hefty deposit to guarantee hefty deposit to guarantee

:04:28.:04:29.

hefty deposit to guarantee exclusive rights to buy the Hall.

:04:29.:04:30.

exclusive rights to buy the Hall. exclusive rights to buy the Hall.

:04:30.:04:31.

exclusive rights to buy the Hall. You get some idea of what happened

:04:31.:04:32.

You get some idea of what happened You get some idea of what happened

:04:32.:04:33.

next by the sheer volume of next by the sheer volume of

:04:33.:04:34.

correspondence. This is the correspondence. This is the

:04:34.:04:35.

correspondence. This is the conditions laid down by the council

:04:35.:04:36.

conditions laid down by the council conditions laid down by the council

:04:36.:04:37.

conditions laid down by the council and this is the response, the plans.

:04:37.:04:38.

and this is the response, the plans. and this is the response, the plans.

:04:38.:04:39.

and this is the response, the plans. But it all got bogged down in

:04:39.:04:40.

But it all got bogged down in detail. Negotiations lasted months,

:04:40.:04:41.

detail. Negotiations lasted months, detail. Negotiations lasted months,

:04:41.:04:45.

then years, without a sale ever then years, without a sale ever

:04:45.:04:46.

then years, without a sale ever taking place. Bill Kataky was part

:04:46.:04:47.

taking place. Bill Kataky was part taking place. Bill Kataky was part

:04:47.:04:48.

of the council team negotiating of the council team negotiating

:04:48.:04:50.

of the council team negotiating with the developers. He's now

:04:50.:04:51.

with the developers. He's now retired, but remembers having

:04:51.:04:52.

retired, but remembers having serious reservations about the

:04:52.:04:56.

serious reservations about the serious reservations about the

:04:56.:04:57.

plans. It was the additional plans. It was the additional

:04:57.:04:58.

plans. It was the additional building which was classed as

:04:58.:05:00.

building which was classed as building which was classed as

:05:00.:05:01.

enabling development. So to allow enabling development. So to allow

:05:01.:05:02.

enabling development. So to allow the buiding to be restored properly

:05:02.:05:03.

the buiding to be restored properly and subdivided they needed

:05:03.:05:04.

and subdivided they needed and subdivided they needed

:05:04.:05:05.

additional income which would be additional income which would be

:05:05.:05:06.

generated by building other generated by building other

:05:06.:05:13.

properties within the curtilage. properties within the curtilage.

:05:13.:05:17.

properties within the curtilage. That rang alarm bells. But Newroc

:05:17.:05:18.

That rang alarm bells. But Newroc That rang alarm bells. But Newroc

:05:18.:05:19.

were not the only developers who were not the only developers who

:05:19.:05:20.

were not the only developers who were not the only developers who

:05:20.:05:25.

could see the potential of the Hall. could see the potential of the Hall.

:05:25.:05:26.

could see the potential of the Hall. We've learned that a second local

:05:26.:05:27.

We've learned that a second local businessman offered around �1

:05:27.:05:28.

businessman offered around �1 businessman offered around �1

:05:28.:05:28.

businessman offered around �1 million to turn the Hall into his

:05:28.:05:29.

million to turn the Hall into his million to turn the Hall into his

:05:29.:05:31.

private home and commercial HQ. And private home and commercial HQ. And

:05:31.:05:32.

private home and commercial HQ. And we've been told a third developer

:05:32.:05:33.

we've been told a third developer we've been told a third developer

:05:34.:05:34.

expressed an interest and was expressed an interest and was

:05:34.:05:35.

expressed an interest and was prepared to make a serious offer,

:05:35.:05:36.

prepared to make a serious offer, prepared to make a serious offer,

:05:36.:05:37.

but was advised the council already but was advised the council already

:05:37.:05:44.

but was advised the council already had a preferred purchaser. Whilst

:05:44.:05:45.

had a preferred purchaser. Whilst had a preferred purchaser. Whilst

:05:45.:05:46.

had a preferred purchaser. Whilst empty the Hall was put a variety of

:05:46.:05:49.

empty the Hall was put a variety of empty the Hall was put a variety of

:05:49.:05:50.

empty the Hall was put a variety of uses. It was used by the police for

:05:50.:05:50.

uses. It was used by the police for uses. It was used by the police for

:05:50.:05:51.

uses. It was used by the police for dog training and was even a filming

:05:51.:05:52.

dog training and was even a filming dog training and was even a filming

:05:52.:05:53.

location for the BBC drama George location for the BBC drama George

:05:53.:05:56.

location for the BBC drama George Gently. He's still here? You sure?

:05:56.:05:57.

Gently. He's still here? You sure? Gently. He's still here? You sure?

:05:57.:06:00.

He's not collected his deposit. He's not collected his deposit.

:06:00.:06:04.

He's not collected his deposit. Away, man. Look, out. With repairs,

:06:04.:06:05.

Away, man. Look, out. With repairs, Away, man. Look, out. With repairs,

:06:05.:06:06.

security and heating costs running security and heating costs running

:06:06.:06:07.

security and heating costs running security and heating costs running

:06:07.:06:07.

at �100,000 a year, the council ran at �100,000 a year, the council ran

:06:07.:06:08.

at �100,000 a year, the council ran out of patience with the developers

:06:08.:06:09.

out of patience with the developers out of patience with the developers

:06:09.:06:11.

and to their amazement sold the and to their amazement sold the

:06:11.:06:16.

and to their amazement sold the and to their amazement sold the

:06:16.:06:16.

Hall to somebody else. We were told Hall to somebody else. We were told

:06:16.:06:18.

Hall to somebody else. We were told Hall to somebody else. We were told

:06:18.:06:18.

they preferred to sell it, just let they preferred to sell it, just let

:06:18.:06:19.

they preferred to sell it, just let they preferred to sell it, just let

:06:19.:06:20.

it go, forget the planning, and let it go, forget the planning, and let

:06:20.:06:23.

it go, forget the planning, and let it go unconditionally. And we said

:06:23.:06:24.

it go unconditionally. And we said it go unconditionally. And we said

:06:24.:06:25.

right, well, surely if that's the right, well, surely if that's the

:06:25.:06:26.

right, well, surely if that's the right, well, surely if that's the

:06:26.:06:27.

case, it should go back to the case, it should go back to the

:06:27.:06:28.

case, it should go back to the market, or in the very first

:06:28.:06:29.

market, or in the very first market, or in the very first

:06:29.:06:30.

market, or in the very first instance you should talk to us and

:06:30.:06:31.

instance you should talk to us and instance you should talk to us and

:06:31.:06:32.

instance you should talk to us and see if we're prepared to buy it

:06:32.:06:35.

see if we're prepared to buy it see if we're prepared to buy it

:06:35.:06:36.

without the planning. And they said, without the planning. And they said,

:06:36.:06:37.

without the planning. And they said, oh, it's too late, we've already

:06:37.:06:38.

oh, it's too late, we've already oh, it's too late, we've already

:06:38.:06:39.

oh, it's too late, we've already done the deal When the original bid

:06:39.:06:40.

done the deal When the original bid done the deal When the original bid

:06:40.:06:41.

done the deal When the original bid came in for many millions, it's now

:06:41.:06:42.

came in for many millions, it's now came in for many millions, it's now

:06:42.:06:43.

came in for many millions, it's now gone for a fraction of that, what's

:06:43.:06:47.

gone for a fraction of that, what's gone for a fraction of that, what's

:06:47.:06:48.

the explanation? We chose a the explanation? We chose a

:06:48.:06:49.

the explanation? We chose a developer when we marketed it and

:06:49.:06:51.

developer when we marketed it and developer when we marketed it and

:06:51.:06:52.

went through a process. A proper went through a process. A proper

:06:52.:06:53.

went through a process. A proper process. Chose a developer and

:06:53.:06:54.

process. Chose a developer and process. Chose a developer and

:06:54.:06:54.

negotiated with that developer over negotiated with that developer over

:06:54.:06:56.

negotiated with that developer over a three year period. Obviously we

:06:56.:06:57.

a three year period. Obviously we a three year period. Obviously we

:06:57.:06:58.

were hoping there would be some were hoping there would be some

:06:58.:06:59.

were hoping there would be some form of capital receipt through

:06:59.:07:00.

form of capital receipt through form of capital receipt through

:07:00.:07:01.

that process. But as the process that process. But as the process

:07:01.:07:02.

that process. But as the process went on, as the property market

:07:02.:07:03.

went on, as the property market went on, as the property market

:07:03.:07:04.

went on, as the property market changed and we entered a period of

:07:04.:07:05.

changed and we entered a period of changed and we entered a period of

:07:05.:07:06.

recession, it was quite clear that recession, it was quite clear that

:07:06.:07:07.

recession, it was quite clear that recession, it was quite clear that

:07:07.:07:08.

the developer was unable to make a the developer was unable to make a

:07:08.:07:09.

the developer was unable to make a the developer was unable to make a

:07:09.:07:10.

profit from the scheme, and as a profit from the scheme, and as a

:07:10.:07:11.

profit from the scheme, and as a profit from the scheme, and as a

:07:11.:07:11.

result of that we were faced with result of that we were faced with

:07:11.:07:12.

result of that we were faced with the prospect of the development not

:07:12.:07:13.

the prospect of the development not the prospect of the development not

:07:13.:07:14.

going ahead and the council going ahead and the council

:07:14.:07:15.

going ahead and the council retaining the building. Having gone

:07:15.:07:16.

retaining the building. Having gone retaining the building. Having gone

:07:16.:07:17.

through that process we then through that process we then

:07:17.:07:17.

through that process we then received a private offer from

:07:17.:07:18.

received a private offer from received a private offer from

:07:18.:07:19.

somebody who wanted to use the somebody who wanted to use the

:07:19.:07:20.

somebody who wanted to use the property for a private residence

:07:20.:07:21.

property for a private residence property for a private residence

:07:21.:07:26.

and we accepted that offer. and we accepted that offer.

:07:26.:07:27.

and we accepted that offer. then we asked the question, what

:07:27.:07:28.

then we asked the question, what then we asked the question, what

:07:28.:07:30.

then we asked the question, what have you sold it for? And when they

:07:30.:07:30.

have you sold it for? And when they have you sold it for? And when they

:07:30.:07:32.

told us we were horrified, told us we were horrified,

:07:32.:07:33.

told us we were horrified, absolutely horrified. You know, the

:07:33.:07:34.

absolutely horrified. You know, the absolutely horrified. You know, the

:07:34.:07:35.

absolutely horrified. You know, the fact that they could allow it to go

:07:35.:07:36.

fact that they could allow it to go fact that they could allow it to go

:07:36.:07:37.

for �240,000 when we were talking for �240,000 when we were talking

:07:37.:07:38.

for �240,000 when we were talking for �240,000 when we were talking

:07:38.:07:41.

the sort of money we were talking the sort of money we were talking

:07:41.:07:42.

the sort of money we were talking about. �1.5 million to purchase the

:07:42.:07:43.

about. �1.5 million to purchase the about. �1.5 million to purchase the

:07:43.:07:43.

about. �1.5 million to purchase the site and potential gain as well, so

:07:43.:07:44.

site and potential gain as well, so site and potential gain as well, so

:07:44.:07:45.

potentially double that, �3 million, potentially double that, �3 million,

:07:45.:07:49.

potentially double that, �3 million, it just was an nonsense. Friends

:07:50.:07:51.

it just was an nonsense. Friends it just was an nonsense. Friends

:07:51.:07:51.

it just was an nonsense. Friends and colleagues that I do know who

:07:51.:07:52.

and colleagues that I do know who and colleagues that I do know who

:07:52.:07:53.

were, and indeed put, serious bids were, and indeed put, serious bids

:07:53.:07:54.

were, and indeed put, serious bids in for this property, they just

:07:54.:07:58.

in for this property, they just in for this property, they just

:07:58.:07:59.

in for this property, they just seemed to get nowhere. The thing is

:07:59.:08:00.

seemed to get nowhere. The thing is seemed to get nowhere. The thing is

:08:00.:08:01.

when the original sale fell through, when the original sale fell through,

:08:01.:08:03.

when the original sale fell through, they weren't given a second chance.

:08:03.:08:04.

they weren't given a second chance. they weren't given a second chance.

:08:04.:08:09.

they weren't given a second chance. Now, if I'd have been the council.

:08:09.:08:10.

Now, if I'd have been the council. Now, if I'd have been the council.

:08:10.:08:11.

Even in the worst scenario they Even in the worst scenario they

:08:11.:08:12.

Even in the worst scenario they Even in the worst scenario they

:08:12.:08:13.

should have said, OK, why don't we should have said, OK, why don't we

:08:13.:08:15.

should have said, OK, why don't we should have said, OK, why don't we

:08:15.:08:16.

put it up for public auction. If we put it up for public auction. If we

:08:16.:08:17.

put it up for public auction. If we put this property up for public

:08:17.:08:18.

put this property up for public put this property up for public

:08:18.:08:18.

put this property up for public auction I know at least two or

:08:18.:08:19.

auction I know at least two or auction I know at least two or

:08:19.:08:20.

three people who would have started three people who would have started

:08:20.:08:21.

three people who would have started the bidding in the millions, not

:08:22.:08:22.

the bidding in the millions, not the bidding in the millions, not

:08:22.:08:23.

the hundreds of thousands, in the the hundreds of thousands, in the

:08:23.:08:24.

the hundreds of thousands, in the millions. You had one preferred

:08:24.:08:25.

millions. You had one preferred millions. You had one preferred

:08:25.:08:26.

millions. You had one preferred bidder but would you have gone back

:08:26.:08:27.

bidder but would you have gone back bidder but would you have gone back

:08:27.:08:28.

to the original ones. It's nearly to the original ones. It's nearly

:08:28.:08:29.

to the original ones. It's nearly four years ago since we went

:08:29.:08:30.

four years ago since we went four years ago since we went

:08:31.:08:31.

through that process. We had one through that process. We had one

:08:31.:08:32.

through that process. We had one through that process. We had one

:08:32.:08:33.

offer on the table now and that's offer on the table now and that's

:08:33.:08:35.

offer on the table now and that's offer on the table now and that's

:08:35.:08:35.

the one we took. I suppose the the one we took. I suppose the

:08:35.:08:36.

the one we took. I suppose the the one we took. I suppose the

:08:36.:08:37.

question is if I was selling my question is if I was selling my

:08:37.:08:38.

question is if I was selling my question is if I was selling my

:08:38.:08:39.

house and my buyer, who I'm really house and my buyer, who I'm really

:08:39.:08:40.

house and my buyer, who I'm really happy with, pulls out, I would

:08:40.:08:41.

happy with, pulls out, I would happy with, pulls out, I would

:08:41.:08:42.

happy with, pulls out, I would think of going back to the others

:08:42.:08:43.

think of going back to the others think of going back to the others

:08:43.:08:43.

think of going back to the others who had shown an interest. It is

:08:43.:08:44.

who had shown an interest. It is who had shown an interest. It is

:08:44.:08:45.

quite some time ago though, isn't quite some time ago though, isn't

:08:45.:08:46.

quite some time ago though, isn't quite some time ago though, isn't

:08:46.:08:47.

it? I suppose on that basis we felt it? I suppose on that basis we felt

:08:47.:08:48.

it? I suppose on that basis we felt it? I suppose on that basis we felt

:08:48.:08:49.

happy to proceed with the one we happy to proceed with the one we

:08:49.:08:50.

happy to proceed with the one we had. Aware of the multi million

:08:50.:08:51.

had. Aware of the multi million had. Aware of the multi million

:08:51.:08:52.

pound cost of restoration, the new pound cost of restoration, the new

:08:52.:08:53.

pound cost of restoration, the new pound cost of restoration, the new

:08:53.:08:55.

owners opening bid for the Hall was owners opening bid for the Hall was

:08:55.:08:56.

owners opening bid for the Hall was owners opening bid for the Hall was

:08:57.:08:57.

just �1. The council told us they just �1. The council told us they

:08:57.:08:58.

just �1. The council told us they threatened to pull out if the

:08:58.:08:59.

threatened to pull out if the threatened to pull out if the

:08:59.:09:01.

process was opened up to other process was opened up to other

:09:01.:09:02.

process was opened up to other bidders. The new owners say they

:09:02.:09:03.

bidders. The new owners say they bidders. The new owners say they

:09:03.:09:04.

bidders. The new owners say they just want to turn it into a family

:09:04.:09:05.

just want to turn it into a family just want to turn it into a family

:09:05.:09:06.

just want to turn it into a family home and restore it to its former

:09:06.:09:07.

home and restore it to its former home and restore it to its former

:09:07.:09:08.

glory. We have confirmed that, at glory. We have confirmed that, at

:09:08.:09:09.

glory. We have confirmed that, at glory. We have confirmed that, at

:09:09.:09:10.

the time of the sale, no covenants the time of the sale, no covenants

:09:10.:09:11.

the time of the sale, no covenants or restrictions were placed on what

:09:11.:09:14.

or restrictions were placed on what or restrictions were placed on what

:09:14.:09:15.

or restrictions were placed on what could be done here. I would expect

:09:15.:09:15.

could be done here. I would expect could be done here. I would expect

:09:15.:09:16.

any local authority to have looked any local authority to have looked

:09:16.:09:17.

any local authority to have looked at providing some conditions as

:09:17.:09:18.

at providing some conditions as at providing some conditions as

:09:18.:09:19.

at providing some conditions as part of that sale and they can do

:09:19.:09:20.

part of that sale and they can do part of that sale and they can do

:09:20.:09:21.

that through a number of ways, that through a number of ways,

:09:21.:09:22.

that through a number of ways, agreements and so on, legal

:09:22.:09:23.

agreements and so on, legal agreements and so on, legal

:09:23.:09:24.

agreements, and that would be the agreements, and that would be the

:09:24.:09:25.

agreements, and that would be the normal course and that would be

:09:25.:09:26.

normal course and that would be normal course and that would be

:09:26.:09:27.

what all the Government guidance what all the Government guidance

:09:27.:09:33.

what all the Government guidance what all the Government guidance

:09:33.:09:34.

would tell you to do. So when you would tell you to do. So when you

:09:34.:09:35.

would tell you to do. So when you would tell you to do. So when you

:09:35.:09:36.

sold this house, did you put any sold this house, did you put any

:09:36.:09:37.

restrictions, covenants or anything restrictions, covenants or anything

:09:37.:09:38.

restrictions, covenants or anything else to ensure that the heritage

:09:38.:09:39.

else to ensure that the heritage else to ensure that the heritage

:09:39.:09:40.

that you were, in effect handing that you were, in effect handing

:09:40.:09:41.

that you were, in effect handing that you were, in effect handing

:09:41.:09:42.

over, for a price, would be looked over, for a price, would be looked

:09:42.:09:46.

over, for a price, would be looked over, for a price, would be looked

:09:46.:09:46.

after in the future. I'm not aware after in the future. I'm not aware

:09:46.:09:47.

after in the future. I'm not aware that we put any covenants actually

:09:47.:09:48.

that we put any covenants actually that we put any covenants actually

:09:48.:09:49.

that we put any covenants actually over the sale of the building but

:09:49.:09:50.

over the sale of the building but over the sale of the building but

:09:50.:09:51.

obviously if the person who's using obviously if the person who's using

:09:51.:09:52.

obviously if the person who's using obviously if the person who's using

:09:52.:09:53.

it uses it as a private dwelling it uses it as a private dwelling

:09:53.:09:54.

it uses it as a private dwelling house, any changes they need to

:09:54.:09:55.

house, any changes they need to house, any changes they need to

:09:55.:09:56.

house, any changes they need to make to the property to bring it

:09:56.:09:57.

make to the property to bring it make to the property to bring it

:09:57.:09:58.

back to its former condition, all back to its former condition, all

:09:58.:09:58.

back to its former condition, all of those will require Listed

:09:58.:09:59.

of those will require Listed of those will require Listed

:09:59.:10:00.

Building Consent going forward. Any Building Consent going forward. Any

:10:00.:10:01.

Building Consent going forward. Any other changes they want to provide

:10:01.:10:02.

other changes they want to provide other changes they want to provide

:10:02.:10:03.

other changes they want to provide in the future, all of that will, of

:10:03.:10:04.

in the future, all of that will, of in the future, all of that will, of

:10:04.:10:05.

course, come under the council's course, come under the council's

:10:05.:10:06.

course, come under the council's planning authority and will require

:10:06.:10:07.

planning authority and will require planning authority and will require

:10:07.:10:09.

consent from English Heritage as consent from English Heritage as

:10:09.:10:10.

consent from English Heritage as well. I would certainly be very

:10:10.:10:11.

well. I would certainly be very well. I would certainly be very

:10:11.:10:12.

concerned if there are no covenants concerned if there are no covenants

:10:12.:10:13.

concerned if there are no covenants concerned if there are no covenants

:10:13.:10:14.

because then it would be free for because then it would be free for

:10:14.:10:15.

because then it would be free for the developer to virtually do what

:10:15.:10:17.

the developer to virtually do what the developer to virtually do what

:10:17.:10:18.

the developer to virtually do what he likes. I hope it doesn't go in

:10:18.:10:19.

he likes. I hope it doesn't go in he likes. I hope it doesn't go in

:10:19.:10:20.

that direction because I think it's that direction because I think it's

:10:20.:10:21.

that direction because I think it's too important an asset for the

:10:21.:10:22.

too important an asset for the too important an asset for the

:10:22.:10:27.

county as a whole and nationally. county as a whole and nationally.

:10:27.:10:28.

county as a whole and nationally. county as a whole and nationally.

:10:28.:10:28.

The deal and the price tag so The deal and the price tag so

:10:28.:10:29.

The deal and the price tag so infuriated on councilor, he asked

:10:29.:10:31.

infuriated on councilor, he asked infuriated on councilor, he asked

:10:31.:10:32.

auditors to investigate. I think auditors to investigate. I think

:10:32.:10:33.

auditors to investigate. I think auditors to investigate. I think

:10:33.:10:34.

there's a lot of people who aren't there's a lot of people who aren't

:10:34.:10:36.

interested and don't care. interested and don't care.

:10:36.:10:37.

interested and don't care. Unfortunately I like to ask

:10:37.:10:38.

Unfortunately I like to ask Unfortunately I like to ask

:10:38.:10:39.

questions. I'm elected to represent questions. I'm elected to represent

:10:39.:10:40.

questions. I'm elected to represent questions. I'm elected to represent

:10:40.:10:41.

people and I like to see that they people and I like to see that they

:10:41.:10:42.

people and I like to see that they get the best value for their

:10:42.:10:43.

get the best value for their get the best value for their

:10:43.:10:44.

council tax. And right now, they council tax. And right now, they

:10:44.:10:46.

council tax. And right now, they aren't getting best value.

:10:46.:10:47.

aren't getting best value. aren't getting best value.

:10:47.:10:49.

Thursday councilors will debate the Thursday councilors will debate the

:10:49.:10:50.

Thursday councilors will debate the auditor's report. It says the

:10:50.:10:51.

auditor's report. It says the auditor's report. It says the

:10:51.:10:52.

council should have talked to council should have talked to

:10:52.:10:53.

council should have talked to English Heritage before the whole

:10:53.:10:54.

English Heritage before the whole English Heritage before the whole

:10:55.:10:55.

English Heritage before the whole process began. It notes a lack of

:10:55.:10:56.

process began. It notes a lack of transparency and accountability

:10:56.:10:57.

transparency and accountability transparency and accountability

:10:57.:10:58.

when the council decided to when the council decided to

:10:58.:10:59.

when the council decided to remarket the hall in 2010.

:10:59.:11:00.

remarket the hall in 2010. Discussions with the final

:11:00.:11:01.

Discussions with the final Discussions with the final

:11:01.:11:04.

purchaser are described as very purchaser are described as very

:11:04.:11:05.

purchaser are described as very informal. And without the right

:11:05.:11:06.

informal. And without the right informal. And without the right

:11:06.:11:07.

paperwork the auditor says she paperwork the auditor says she

:11:07.:11:08.

paperwork the auditor says she cannot be certain the final sale

:11:08.:11:11.

cannot be certain the final sale cannot be certain the final sale

:11:11.:11:12.

was a good deal. The report was a good deal. The report

:11:12.:11:13.

concludes, the council's reputation concludes, the council's reputation

:11:13.:11:18.

concludes, the council's reputation has been damaged. I just can't

:11:18.:11:19.

has been damaged. I just can't has been damaged. I just can't

:11:19.:11:22.

believe that a body that runs believe that a body that runs

:11:22.:11:23.

believe that a body that runs County Durham. These are the people

:11:24.:11:25.

County Durham. These are the people County Durham. These are the people

:11:25.:11:25.

County Durham. These are the people we pay our rates to and these are

:11:25.:11:26.

we pay our rates to and these are we pay our rates to and these are

:11:26.:11:27.

people who always say we haven't people who always say we haven't

:11:28.:11:28.

people who always say we haven't people who always say we haven't

:11:29.:11:29.

got enough money to do this, we got enough money to do this, we

:11:29.:11:30.

got enough money to do this, we got enough money to do this, we

:11:30.:11:31.

haven't got enough money to do that, haven't got enough money to do that,

:11:31.:11:32.

haven't got enough money to do that, haven't got enough money to do that,

:11:32.:11:33.

and then they just seem to, when and then they just seem to, when

:11:33.:11:34.

and then they just seem to, when and then they just seem to, when

:11:34.:11:35.

they have a pot of gold, given it they have a pot of gold, given it

:11:35.:11:36.

they have a pot of gold, given it they have a pot of gold, given it

:11:36.:11:38.

they have a pot of gold, given it away as if it's a pot of honey.

:11:38.:11:39.

away as if it's a pot of honey. away as if it's a pot of honey.

:11:39.:11:40.

you then confident that this has you then confident that this has

:11:40.:11:41.

you then confident that this has been the best possible value for

:11:41.:11:43.

been the best possible value for been the best possible value for

:11:43.:11:44.

the council? Sitting here, 2013, the council? Sitting here, 2013,

:11:44.:11:45.

the council? Sitting here, 2013, I'm absolutely confident this is a

:11:45.:11:46.

I'm absolutely confident this is a I'm absolutely confident this is a

:11:46.:11:51.

I'm absolutely confident this is a good deal for the Council. 20 years

:11:51.:11:52.

good deal for the Council. 20 years good deal for the Council. 20 years

:11:52.:11:52.

good deal for the Council. 20 years ago the last shipyard on the Tyne

:11:52.:11:53.

ago the last shipyard on the Tyne ago the last shipyard on the Tyne

:11:53.:11:54.

was on the verge of collapse. was on the verge of collapse.

:11:54.:11:55.

Swan Hunter, the world-famous Swan Hunter, the world-famous

:11:55.:11:56.

Swan Hunter, the world-famous shipbuilder, was brought to its

:11:56.:11:57.

shipbuilder, was brought to its shipbuilder, was brought to its

:11:57.:11:59.

knees when it lost one crucial knees when it lost one crucial

:11:59.:12:00.

knees when it lost one crucial order. Receivers moved in to

:12:00.:12:03.

order. Receivers moved in to order. Receivers moved in to

:12:03.:12:04.

salvage what they could. For many salvage what they could. For many

:12:04.:12:05.

salvage what they could. For many of those involved, it's a period

:12:05.:12:15.
:12:15.:12:32.

of those involved, it's a period Being the best wasn't good enough.

:12:32.:12:33.

Being the best wasn't good enough. Being the best wasn't good enough.

:12:33.:12:34.

The sense of despair and The sense of despair and

:12:34.:12:34.

disappointment on Tyneside disappointment on Tyneside

:12:34.:12:36.

disappointment on Tyneside yesterday will turn to anger and

:12:36.:12:37.

betrayal. betrayal.

:12:37.:12:38.

betrayal. betrayal.

:12:38.:12:39.

1,600 ships and a 133 years of 1,600 ships and a 133 years of

:12:39.:12:40.

shipbuilding. From warships and shipbuilding. From warships and

:12:40.:12:41.

shipbuilding. From warships and luxury liners to supertankers in

:12:41.:12:42.

luxury liners to supertankers in luxury liners to supertankers in

:12:42.:12:42.

luxury liners to supertankers in the 1960s and 70s. Once it was

:12:43.:12:44.

the 1960s and 70s. Once it was unthinkable that shipbuilding at

:12:44.:12:45.

unthinkable that shipbuilding at unthinkable that shipbuilding at

:12:45.:12:47.

Swan Hunter's in Wallsend would Swan Hunter's in Wallsend would

:12:47.:12:48.

Swan Hunter's in Wallsend would Swan Hunter's in Wallsend would

:12:48.:12:49.

ever end. Now it is hard to imagine ever end. Now it is hard to imagine

:12:49.:12:58.

ever end. Now it is hard to imagine that it happened at all.

:12:58.:12:59.

that it happened at all. that it happened at all.

:12:59.:13:00.

When I walked into Swan Hunter's When I walked into Swan Hunter's

:13:00.:13:01.

When I walked into Swan Hunter's this morning it was like desolation

:13:01.:13:11.
:13:11.:13:13.

this morning it was like desolation this morning it was like desolation

:13:13.:13:14.

this morning it was like desolation row. Her after losing an order for

:13:14.:13:15.

row. Her after losing an order for row. Her after losing an order for

:13:15.:13:15.

row. Her after losing an order for their Royal Navy or Swan Hunter is

:13:15.:13:19.

their Royal Navy or Swan Hunter is their Royal Navy or Swan Hunter is

:13:19.:13:19.

in trouble. British shipbuiding had in trouble. British shipbuiding had

:13:19.:13:20.

in trouble. British shipbuiding had long been in decline, but losing

:13:20.:13:21.

long been in decline, but losing long been in decline, but losing

:13:21.:13:22.

long been in decline, but losing this order to VSEL in Barrow had

:13:22.:13:28.

catastrophic consequences. catastrophic consequences.

:13:28.:13:29.

catastrophic consequences. On that particular morning, Roger

:13:29.:13:30.

On that particular morning, Roger On that particular morning, Roger

:13:30.:13:31.

Vaughan standing at the main gates, Vaughan standing at the main gates,

:13:31.:13:32.

Vaughan standing at the main gates, Vaughan standing at the main gates,

:13:32.:13:33.

pulled us to the side and said the pulled us to the side and said the

:13:33.:13:34.

pulled us to the side and said the company is in financial trouble and

:13:34.:13:35.

company is in financial trouble and company is in financial trouble and

:13:35.:13:36.

company is in financial trouble and we are going to bring the receivers

:13:36.:13:37.

we are going to bring the receivers we are going to bring the receivers

:13:37.:13:38.

in. It was a real bodyblow. in. It was a real bodyblow.

:13:38.:13:39.

in. It was a real bodyblow. When the receivers walked across

:13:39.:13:40.

When the receivers walked across When the receivers walked across

:13:40.:13:41.

When the receivers walked across the yard that day I was really,

:13:41.:13:41.

the yard that day I was really, the yard that day I was really,

:13:41.:13:42.

the yard that day I was really, really down. I thought, "It has got

:13:42.:13:43.

really down. I thought, "It has got really down. I thought, "It has got

:13:43.:13:44.

really down. I thought, "It has got to be the end." They were taking

:13:44.:13:45.

to be the end." They were taking to be the end." They were taking

:13:45.:13:46.

stock of the machinery. We were stock of the machinery. We were

:13:46.:13:47.

stock of the machinery. We were stock of the machinery. We were

:13:47.:13:48.

told to ignore them, but how can told to ignore them, but how can

:13:48.:13:49.

told to ignore them, but how can you? People like that taking the

:13:49.:13:50.

you? People like that taking the you? People like that taking the

:13:50.:13:51.

life blood away, it was awful. life blood away, it was awful.

:13:51.:13:52.

life blood away, it was awful. All around the yard there was

:13:52.:13:54.

All around the yard there was confusion and anxiety.

:13:54.:13:55.

confusion and anxiety. confusion and anxiety.

:13:55.:13:56.

2,200 people worked at Swans, among 2,200 people worked at Swans, among

:13:56.:13:57.

2,200 people worked at Swans, among them Elaine Greenwell and her

:13:57.:14:01.

father. father.

:14:01.:14:02.

father. father.

:14:02.:14:03.

I can remember going to work as I can remember going to work as

:14:03.:14:04.

I can remember going to work as I can remember going to work as

:14:04.:14:05.

normal. We were told we could not normal. We were told we could not

:14:05.:14:06.

normal. We were told we could not normal. We were told we could not

:14:06.:14:06.

go into work, we were locked out go into work, we were locked out

:14:07.:14:08.

go into work, we were locked out because the receivers were in. We

:14:08.:14:09.

because the receivers were in. We because the receivers were in. We

:14:09.:14:10.

were all standing there and nobody were all standing there and nobody

:14:10.:14:13.

were all standing there and nobody would speak to us. I sometimes

:14:13.:14:14.

would speak to us. I sometimes would speak to us. I sometimes

:14:14.:14:15.

would speak to us. I sometimes still feel very angry about it. Why

:14:15.:14:16.

still feel very angry about it. Why still feel very angry about it. Why

:14:16.:14:17.

still feel very angry about it. Why did they close it? It does make you

:14:17.:14:24.

angry. angry.

:14:24.:14:25.

angry. angry.

:14:25.:14:26.

Bill was 61 and had worked in Bill was 61 and had worked in

:14:26.:14:31.

shipyards all his life. shipyards all his life.

:14:31.:14:32.

shipyards all his life. shipyards all his life.

:14:32.:14:33.

Went to work, and was told the Went to work, and was told the

:14:33.:14:34.

Went to work, and was told the receivers were in. You can't take

:14:34.:14:35.

receivers were in. You can't take receivers were in. You can't take

:14:35.:14:36.

your tools out or anything. your tools out or anything.

:14:36.:14:37.

your tools out or anything. Everybody said, "We are taking our

:14:37.:14:38.

Everybody said, "We are taking our Everybody said, "We are taking our

:14:38.:14:43.

tools out, they are ours." tools out, they are ours."

:14:43.:14:44.

tools out, they are ours." we were only appointed this

:14:44.:14:45.

we were only appointed this we were only appointed this

:14:45.:14:45.

afternoon, we have not previously afternoon, we have not previously

:14:45.:14:50.

afternoon, we have not previously set foot in the company.

:14:50.:14:51.

set foot in the company. set foot in the company.

:14:51.:14:51.

set foot in the company. But the workforce had not been told

:14:51.:14:58.

But the workforce had not been told the full story.

:14:58.:14:59.

the full story. the full story.

:14:59.:15:00.

the full story. We had spent a little bit of time

:15:00.:15:01.

We had spent a little bit of time We had spent a little bit of time

:15:01.:15:02.

in the months beforehand in in the months beforehand in

:15:02.:15:03.

confidential discussions with the confidential discussions with the

:15:03.:15:04.

confidential discussions with the confidential discussions with the

:15:04.:15:05.

banks and with the company as to banks and with the company as to

:15:05.:15:06.

banks and with the company as to what the consequences could be if

:15:06.:15:07.

what the consequences could be if what the consequences could be if

:15:07.:15:08.

Swans did not win the major Swans did not win the major

:15:08.:15:11.

Swans did not win the major contract that it was looking for.

:15:11.:15:12.

contract that it was looking for. contract that it was looking for.

:15:12.:15:13.

Your first impression on arrival as Your first impression on arrival as

:15:13.:15:14.

Your first impression on arrival as Your first impression on arrival as

:15:14.:15:16.

Your first impression on arrival as you go down the bank - gulp! A bit

:15:16.:15:17.

you go down the bank - gulp! A bit you go down the bank - gulp! A bit

:15:17.:15:18.

like walking out the tunnel at like walking out the tunnel at

:15:18.:15:19.

like walking out the tunnel at Wembley. Suddenly all the media,

:15:19.:15:20.

Wembley. Suddenly all the media, microphones, cameras, booms waving

:15:20.:15:28.

microphones, cameras, booms waving microphones, cameras, booms waving

:15:28.:15:29.

microphones, cameras, booms waving at you. When the Duke of Edinburgh

:15:29.:15:30.

at you. When the Duke of Edinburgh at you. When the Duke of Edinburgh

:15:30.:15:31.

visited Swans in 1957, John Hall visited Swans in 1957, John Hall

:15:31.:15:32.

visited Swans in 1957, John Hall visited Swans in 1957, John Hall

:15:32.:15:33.

visited Swans in 1957, John Hall was just a young lad - one of tens

:15:33.:15:34.

was just a young lad - one of tens was just a young lad - one of tens

:15:34.:15:35.

of thousands working on the Tyne. of thousands working on the Tyne.

:15:35.:15:36.

of thousands working on the Tyne. He remembers his first cup of

:15:36.:15:42.

riveters' tea. riveters' tea.

:15:42.:15:43.

riveters' tea. riveters' tea.

:15:43.:15:43.

It was in an old white can... It was in an old white can...

:15:43.:15:44.

It was in an old white can... Horrible, but I was too frightened

:15:44.:15:54.
:15:54.:15:56.

Horrible, but I was too frightened Horrible, but I was too frightened

:15:56.:15:57.

Horrible, but I was too frightened to say no. It was Black's strong,

:15:57.:15:59.

to say no. It was Black's strong, to say no. It was Black's strong,

:15:59.:16:04.

to say no. It was Black's strong, you could stand up Aspin in it. --

:16:04.:16:07.

aspirin. aspirin.

:16:07.:16:08.

aspirin. By 1993, only Swans remained. The

:16:08.:16:09.

By 1993, only Swans remained. The By 1993, only Swans remained. The

:16:09.:16:10.

By 1993, only Swans remained. The yard just had one order for three

:16:10.:16:16.

MoD frigates. MoD frigates.

:16:16.:16:17.

MoD frigates. MoD frigates.

:16:17.:16:18.

We heard that Swan Hunter's did not We heard that Swan Hunter's did not

:16:18.:16:19.

We heard that Swan Hunter's did not get the order when they announced

:16:19.:16:21.

get the order when they announced get the order when they announced

:16:21.:16:22.

get the order when they announced it in Parliament. Just a few hours

:16:22.:16:23.

it in Parliament. Just a few hours it in Parliament. Just a few hours

:16:23.:16:24.

earlier the company was being told earlier the company was being told

:16:24.:16:25.

earlier the company was being told earlier the company was being told

:16:25.:16:31.

that it was all OK. It was snatched away.

:16:31.:16:32.

away. away.

:16:32.:16:33.

A month earlier, the Defence A month earlier, the Defence

:16:33.:16:34.

A month earlier, the Defence Minister, Jonathan Aitken, had left

:16:34.:16:35.

Minister, Jonathan Aitken, had left Minister, Jonathan Aitken, had left

:16:35.:16:39.

the yard in buoyant mood. the yard in buoyant mood.

:16:39.:16:41.

the yard in buoyant mood. the yard in buoyant mood.

:16:41.:16:46.

How impressed are you? I am very How impressed are you? I am very

:16:46.:16:48.

How impressed are you? I am very impressed. They have a finer record

:16:48.:16:49.

impressed. They have a finer record impressed. They have a finer record

:16:49.:16:50.

and a workforce with the highest and a workforce with the highest

:16:50.:16:57.

skill and dedication. skill and dedication.

:16:57.:16:57.

skill and dedication. It was a particularly difficult

:16:57.:16:58.

It was a particularly difficult It was a particularly difficult

:16:58.:16:59.

It was a particularly difficult period for all shipyards in the UK.

:16:59.:17:00.

period for all shipyards in the UK. period for all shipyards in the UK.

:17:00.:17:01.

There were too many shipyards There were too many shipyards

:17:01.:17:03.

chasing too few orders. chasing too few orders.

:17:03.:17:04.

chasing too few orders. I remember being enormously sad

:17:04.:17:05.

I remember being enormously sad I remember being enormously sad

:17:05.:17:07.

I remember being enormously sad that Swan Hunter's had not won it.

:17:07.:17:08.

that Swan Hunter's had not won it. that Swan Hunter's had not won it.

:17:08.:17:11.

My personal favourite was for Swan Hunter's.

:17:11.:17:12.

Hunter's. Hunter's.

:17:12.:17:13.

Hunter's. At the time the MoD did play it

:17:13.:17:14.

At the time the MoD did play it At the time the MoD did play it

:17:14.:17:14.

straight, despite all these rumours straight, despite all these rumours

:17:14.:17:15.

straight, despite all these rumours and conspiracy theories that the

:17:15.:17:16.

and conspiracy theories that the and conspiracy theories that the

:17:16.:17:17.

and conspiracy theories that the bid was being angled one way or

:17:17.:17:18.

bid was being angled one way or bid was being angled one way or

:17:18.:17:25.

another. That simply was not true. another. That simply was not true.

:17:25.:17:26.

another. That simply was not true. another. That simply was not true.

:17:26.:17:27.

The other ship yards were run by The other ship yards were run by

:17:27.:17:28.

The other ship yards were run by The other ship yards were run by

:17:28.:17:28.

big companies, this was run by the big companies, this was run by the

:17:28.:17:29.

big companies, this was run by the little guys, they were the easiest

:17:29.:17:30.

little guys, they were the easiest little guys, they were the easiest

:17:30.:17:31.

little guys, they were the easiest to rub out. It sounds like a TV

:17:31.:17:32.

to rub out. It sounds like a TV to rub out. It sounds like a TV

:17:32.:17:33.

conspiracy, but all the actions conspiracy, but all the actions

:17:33.:17:42.

conspiracy, but all the actions were like a TV conspiracy.

:17:42.:17:43.

were like a TV conspiracy. were like a TV conspiracy.

:17:43.:17:44.

were like a TV conspiracy. And in the pouring rain, men told

:17:44.:17:47.

the news. the news.

:17:47.:17:48.

the news. We explained to them the company

:17:48.:17:49.

We explained to them the company We explained to them the company

:17:49.:17:50.

was in receivership. None of our was in receivership. None of our

:17:50.:17:52.

was in receivership. None of our was in receivership. None of our

:17:52.:17:52.

jobs were safe and, to compound the jobs were safe and, to compound the

:17:52.:17:53.

jobs were safe and, to compound the problem, that there were no wages,

:17:53.:17:54.

problem, that there were no wages, problem, that there were no wages,

:17:54.:17:55.

problem, that there were no wages, bearing in mind they were paid a

:17:55.:17:56.

bearing in mind they were paid a bearing in mind they were paid a

:17:56.:17:57.

month in arrears. They felt they month in arrears. They felt they

:17:57.:18:01.

had been betrayed. had been betrayed.

:18:01.:18:03.

had been betrayed. had been betrayed.

:18:03.:18:04.

When can you tell us? About half an When can you tell us? About half an

:18:04.:18:06.

When can you tell us? About half an When can you tell us? About half an

:18:06.:18:07.

hour is the current time scale. hour is the current time scale.

:18:07.:18:07.

hour is the current time scale. large crowd of media gathered

:18:07.:18:08.

large crowd of media gathered large crowd of media gathered

:18:09.:18:09.

outside Swans so I volunteered to outside Swans so I volunteered to

:18:09.:18:18.

outside Swans so I volunteered to go outside and read the statement.

:18:19.:18:21.

go outside and read the statement. go outside and read the statement.

:18:21.:18:22.

go outside and read the statement. They told me: Sorry, we can not pay

:18:22.:18:29.

They told me: Sorry, we can not pay you for this.

:18:29.:18:30.

you for this. you for this.

:18:30.:18:31.

you for this. I walked out and read the statement

:18:31.:18:35.

I walked out and read the statement that had been agreed.

:18:35.:18:36.

that had been agreed. that had been agreed.

:18:36.:18:37.

OK, everybody ready? This tragic OK, everybody ready? This tragic

:18:37.:18:38.

OK, everybody ready? This tragic OK, everybody ready? This tragic

:18:38.:18:39.

outcome is a bitter blow to a outcome is a bitter blow to a

:18:39.:18:42.

dedicated and superb workforce. dedicated and superb workforce.

:18:42.:18:43.

dedicated and superb workforce. dedicated and superb workforce.

:18:43.:18:44.

dedicated and superb workforce. At the end of it I put down the

:18:44.:18:45.

At the end of it I put down the At the end of it I put down the

:18:45.:18:46.

At the end of it I put down the piece of paper and I said, "Being

:18:46.:18:47.

piece of paper and I said, "Being piece of paper and I said, "Being

:18:47.:18:53.

the best was not good enough." the best was not good enough."

:18:53.:18:54.

the best was not good enough." Fortunately, money was found to pay

:18:54.:18:55.

Fortunately, money was found to pay Fortunately, money was found to pay

:18:55.:18:56.

the workforce so the MoD frigates the workforce so the MoD frigates

:18:56.:18:57.

the workforce so the MoD frigates could be completed. This bought the

:18:57.:18:58.

could be completed. This bought the could be completed. This bought the

:18:58.:18:59.

could be completed. This bought the receivers time to find a buyer for

:18:59.:19:01.

the yard. the yard.

:19:01.:19:02.

the yard. But as each ship was finished,

:19:02.:19:03.

But as each ship was finished, But as each ship was finished,

:19:03.:19:08.

workers were laid off in waves. workers were laid off in waves.

:19:08.:19:10.

workers were laid off in waves. workers were laid off in waves.

:19:10.:19:11.

I was nearly last. I completed one I was nearly last. I completed one

:19:11.:19:12.

I was nearly last. I completed one I was nearly last. I completed one

:19:12.:19:13.

job, manager says, "You have got to job, manager says, "You have got to

:19:13.:19:14.

job, manager says, "You have got to leave the premises," and that was

:19:14.:19:15.

leave the premises," and that was leave the premises," and that was

:19:15.:19:22.

leave the premises," and that was it. Took my tools and scuttled away.

:19:22.:19:23.

it. Took my tools and scuttled away. it. Took my tools and scuttled away.

:19:23.:19:24.

it. Took my tools and scuttled away. My last day was more memorable, got

:19:24.:19:25.

My last day was more memorable, got My last day was more memorable, got

:19:25.:19:26.

My last day was more memorable, got a bottle of Champagne for being the

:19:26.:19:27.

a bottle of Champagne for being the a bottle of Champagne for being the

:19:27.:19:27.

a bottle of Champagne for being the youngest left. I was lucky. I left

:19:27.:19:28.

youngest left. I was lucky. I left youngest left. I was lucky. I left

:19:28.:19:29.

youngest left. I was lucky. I left on the Friday, got another job on

:19:29.:19:33.

the Monday. the Monday.

:19:33.:19:38.

the Monday. Most were not so lucky.

:19:39.:19:40.

Most were not so lucky. Most were not so lucky.

:19:40.:19:40.

Most were not so lucky. I know lots of lads who never

:19:40.:19:41.

I know lots of lads who never I know lots of lads who never

:19:41.:19:47.

worked again. There was no work here, see?

:19:48.:19:49.

here, see? here, see?

:19:49.:19:50.

here, see? I had to report every week to sign

:19:50.:19:50.

I had to report every week to sign I had to report every week to sign

:19:51.:19:51.

I had to report every week to sign on. I thought, "This is wrong. This

:19:51.:19:52.

on. I thought, "This is wrong. This on. I thought, "This is wrong. This

:19:52.:19:56.

on. I thought, "This is wrong. This can't be happening to me." It was a

:19:56.:19:57.

can't be happening to me." It was a can't be happening to me." It was a

:19:57.:19:58.

can't be happening to me." It was a real low time in my life, having to

:19:58.:19:59.

real low time in my life, having to real low time in my life, having to

:19:59.:20:01.

go there every single week. go there every single week.

:20:01.:20:02.

go there every single week. element creeps through even the

:20:02.:20:03.

element creeps through even the element creeps through even the

:20:03.:20:06.

most stoney hearted receiver's view most stoney hearted receiver's view

:20:06.:20:07.

most stoney hearted receiver's view most stoney hearted receiver's view

:20:07.:20:08.

of life. In that sense we, like of life. In that sense we, like

:20:08.:20:09.

of life. In that sense we, like of life. In that sense we, like

:20:09.:20:19.
:20:19.:20:22.

everyone else, sell the yard as a everyone else, sell the yard as a

:20:22.:20:24.

everyone else, sell the yard as a going concern. We had Corporation,

:20:24.:20:25.

going concern. We had Corporation, going concern. We had Corporation,

:20:25.:20:28.

going concern. We had Corporation, and be could not find a buyer. --

:20:28.:20:31.

Corporation. Corporation.

:20:31.:20:32.

Corporation. Everything was auctioned off and

:20:32.:20:33.

Everything was auctioned off and Everything was auctioned off and

:20:33.:20:33.

the yard was mothballed in 1994. the yard was mothballed in 1994.

:20:34.:20:34.

the yard was mothballed in 1994. Eventually a buyer - Dutch

:20:34.:20:35.

Eventually a buyer - Dutch Eventually a buyer - Dutch

:20:35.:20:36.

millionaire Jaap Kreose - came millionaire Jaap Kreose - came

:20:36.:20:37.

forward and shipbuilding continued forward and shipbuilding continued

:20:37.:20:38.

forward and shipbuilding continued forward and shipbuilding continued

:20:38.:20:39.

on the Tyne until 2006. Swan Hunter on the Tyne until 2006. Swan Hunter

:20:39.:20:40.

on the Tyne until 2006. Swan Hunter on the Tyne until 2006. Swan Hunter

:20:40.:20:41.

does still exist, but as a ship does still exist, but as a ship

:20:41.:20:42.

engineering and design company engineering and design company

:20:42.:20:48.

rather than a shipbuilder. rather than a shipbuilder.

:20:48.:20:49.

rather than a shipbuilder. rather than a shipbuilder.

:20:49.:20:53.

I had never been back since into I had never been back since into

:20:53.:20:54.

I had never been back since into I had never been back since into

:20:54.:20:55.

the yard. To see what had been a the yard. To see what had been a

:20:55.:20:56.

thriving industrial centre, thriving industrial centre,

:20:56.:21:00.

employing many many skilled employing many many skilled

:21:00.:21:01.

employing many many skilled people... To see a concrete slab,

:21:01.:21:03.

people... To see a concrete slab, people... To see a concrete slab,

:21:03.:21:04.

it is heartbreaking. All that had it is heartbreaking. All that had

:21:04.:21:14.
:21:14.:21:17.

Around the same time the Swan Around the same time the Swan

:21:17.:21:18.

Around the same time the Swan Hunter workers were facing hard

:21:18.:21:19.

Hunter workers were facing hard Hunter workers were facing hard

:21:19.:21:20.

times the Premier League kicked off. times the Premier League kicked off.

:21:20.:21:21.

times the Premier League kicked off. times the Premier League kicked off.

:21:21.:21:22.

You probably do not need me to tell You probably do not need me to tell

:21:22.:21:23.

You probably do not need me to tell You probably do not need me to tell

:21:23.:21:24.

you the cost of following your team you the cost of following your team

:21:24.:21:25.

you the cost of following your team has risen far faster than inflation.

:21:25.:21:26.

has risen far faster than inflation. has risen far faster than inflation.

:21:26.:21:27.

has risen far faster than inflation. A ticket to an away game in London

:21:27.:21:28.

A ticket to an away game in London A ticket to an away game in London

:21:28.:21:29.

A ticket to an away game in London can cost up to �62, before you add

:21:29.:21:30.

can cost up to �62, before you add can cost up to �62, before you add

:21:30.:21:31.

can cost up to �62, before you add in the cost of travel. So you might

:21:31.:21:32.

in the cost of travel. So you might in the cost of travel. So you might

:21:32.:21:33.

be rather envious when you hear be rather envious when you hear

:21:33.:21:34.

be rather envious when you hear what Richard Askham has to say

:21:34.:21:35.

what Richard Askham has to say what Richard Askham has to say

:21:35.:21:36.

what Richard Askham has to say about how fans in Germany fare, it

:21:36.:21:36.

about how fans in Germany fare, it about how fans in Germany fare, it

:21:36.:21:46.
:21:46.:22:00.

Welcome to the Bundesliga. Welcome to the Bundesliga.

:22:00.:22:01.

Welcome to the Bundesliga. More spectators cram into Germany's

:22:01.:22:02.

More spectators cram into Germany's More spectators cram into Germany's

:22:02.:22:03.

vast stadia than in any other vast stadia than in any other

:22:03.:22:03.

vast stadia than in any other football league in the world.

:22:03.:22:08.

Including England. Including England.

:22:08.:22:09.

Including England. Including England.

:22:09.:22:09.

It is important to point out that It is important to point out that

:22:09.:22:10.

It is important to point out that the Bundesliga remains well behind

:22:10.:22:11.

the Bundesliga remains well behind the Bundesliga remains well behind

:22:11.:22:12.

the Premier League financially, and the Premier League financially, and

:22:12.:22:13.

the Premier League financially, and in global popularity. But will its

:22:13.:22:14.

in global popularity. But will its philosophy of maintaining

:22:14.:22:15.

philosophy of maintaining philosophy of maintaining

:22:15.:22:15.

affordable match tickets prove the affordable match tickets prove the

:22:15.:22:22.

affordable match tickets prove the Right from the time the Premier

:22:22.:22:23.

Right from the time the Premier Right from the time the Premier

:22:23.:22:24.

League was formed in 1992, fans League was formed in 1992, fans

:22:24.:22:24.

League was formed in 1992, fans have grumbled about rising ticket

:22:24.:22:25.

have grumbled about rising ticket have grumbled about rising ticket

:22:25.:22:26.

prices. Yet they have always paid prices. Yet they have always paid

:22:26.:22:33.

up in the end. up in the end.

:22:33.:22:34.

up in the end. But last month, Manchester City

:22:34.:22:35.

But last month, Manchester City But last month, Manchester City

:22:35.:22:36.

But last month, Manchester City fans made what could turn out to be

:22:36.:22:38.

fans made what could turn out to be fans made what could turn out to be

:22:38.:22:39.

a significant gesture. Almost a a significant gesture. Almost a

:22:39.:22:39.

a significant gesture. Almost a third of their ticket allocation

:22:39.:22:40.

third of their ticket allocation third of their ticket allocation

:22:40.:22:42.

for their game at Arsenal went for their game at Arsenal went

:22:42.:22:43.

for their game at Arsenal went unsold. By refusal to fork out,

:22:43.:22:44.

unsold. By refusal to fork out, unsold. By refusal to fork out,

:22:44.:22:45.

unsold. By refusal to fork out, City fans were sending a message to

:22:45.:22:46.

City fans were sending a message to City fans were sending a message to

:22:46.:22:55.

the Premier League. Actually 62 of the Premier League. Actually 62 of

:22:55.:22:56.

the Premier League. Actually 62 of the Premier League. Actually 62 of

:22:56.:22:57.

them. A lot of people say that them. A lot of people say that

:22:57.:22:59.

them. A lot of people say that them. A lot of people say that

:22:59.:23:00.

empty seats will hit the clubs more empty seats will hit the clubs more

:23:00.:23:01.

empty seats will hit the clubs more empty seats will hit the clubs more

:23:01.:23:03.

in the pocket. But from a pack -- in the pocket. But from a pack --

:23:03.:23:04.

in the pocket. But from a pack -- in the pocket. But from a pack --

:23:04.:23:05.

from a fan's point of you, why from a fan's point of you, why

:23:05.:23:06.

from a fan's point of you, why should we be driven away?

:23:06.:23:07.

should we be driven away? should we be driven away?

:23:07.:23:08.

should we be driven away? And fans of other clubs agree with

:23:08.:23:13.

And fans of other clubs agree with And fans of other clubs agree with

:23:13.:23:14.

And fans of other clubs agree with Richard. You used to pay �10 and

:23:14.:23:16.

Richard. You used to pay �10 and Richard. You used to pay �10 and

:23:16.:23:17.

Richard. You used to pay �10 and that was plenty. It is the working

:23:17.:23:17.

that was plenty. It is the working that was plenty. It is the working

:23:17.:23:18.

that was plenty. It is the working man's game but now I feel the

:23:18.:23:20.

man's game but now I feel the man's game but now I feel the

:23:20.:23:21.

working man is being squeezed out working man is being squeezed out

:23:21.:23:23.

working man is being squeezed out working man is being squeezed out

:23:23.:23:24.

working man is being squeezed out of it. A lot of people refuse to go

:23:24.:23:25.

of it. A lot of people refuse to go of it. A lot of people refuse to go

:23:25.:23:26.

of it. A lot of people refuse to go to Tottenham. A lot refused to go

:23:26.:23:28.

to Tottenham. A lot refused to go to Tottenham. A lot refused to go

:23:28.:23:30.

to Tottenham. A lot refused to go to Arsenal. And Chelsea as well. It

:23:30.:23:31.

to Arsenal. And Chelsea as well. It to Arsenal. And Chelsea as well. It

:23:31.:23:32.

is because of the ticket pricing. is because of the ticket pricing.

:23:32.:23:35.

is because of the ticket pricing. is because of the ticket pricing.

:23:36.:23:36.

It is a disgrace. But there are It is a disgrace. But there are

:23:36.:23:37.

It is a disgrace. But there are supporters who will go no matter

:23:37.:23:43.

what. what.

:23:43.:23:44.

what. Mark Palios is the former Chief

:23:44.:23:45.

Mark Palios is the former Chief Executive of the Football

:23:45.:23:46.

Executive of the Football Executive of the Football

:23:46.:23:47.

Association. He has witnessed the Association. He has witnessed the

:23:47.:23:47.

Association. He has witnessed the business of football from many

:23:47.:23:48.

business of football from many business of football from many

:23:48.:23:49.

angles, having played 17 seasons angles, having played 17 seasons

:23:49.:23:50.

angles, having played 17 seasons for Tranmere before becoming a

:23:50.:23:51.

for Tranmere before becoming a for Tranmere before becoming a

:23:51.:23:52.

for Tranmere before becoming a senior Partner at a leading firm of

:23:52.:23:57.

senior Partner at a leading firm of senior Partner at a leading firm of

:23:57.:23:58.

accountants. At tickets and the accountants. At tickets and the

:23:58.:24:01.

accountants. At tickets and the accountants. At tickets and the

:24:01.:24:01.

Premier League to hide? It is an Premier League to hide? It is an

:24:02.:24:04.

Premier League to hide? It is an inescapable conclusion to me. There

:24:04.:24:05.

inescapable conclusion to me. There inescapable conclusion to me. There

:24:05.:24:06.

inescapable conclusion to me. There inescapable conclusion to me. There

:24:06.:24:07.

has to be a limit as to where you has to be a limit as to where you

:24:07.:24:08.

has to be a limit as to where you has to be a limit as to where you

:24:08.:24:09.

has to be a limit as to where you get to. If you look at it and you

:24:09.:24:10.

get to. If you look at it and you get to. If you look at it and you

:24:10.:24:11.

get to. If you look at it and you start to add on travel costs as

:24:11.:24:13.

start to add on travel costs as start to add on travel costs as

:24:14.:24:15.

well, then as a piece of well, then as a piece of

:24:15.:24:17.

well, then as a piece of entertainment for a father with a

:24:17.:24:18.

entertainment for a father with a entertainment for a father with a

:24:18.:24:19.

few kids, you're starting to struggle.

:24:19.:24:20.

struggle. struggle.

:24:20.:24:21.

One former player, who has played One former player, who has played

:24:21.:24:23.

One former player, who has played One former player, who has played

:24:23.:24:24.

at the very top in both England and at the very top in both England and

:24:24.:24:24.

at the very top in both England and at the very top in both England and

:24:25.:24:25.

in Germany, comes down on the side in Germany, comes down on the side

:24:25.:24:31.

in Germany, comes down on the side of hard-pressed supporters. It is

:24:31.:24:32.

of hard-pressed supporters. It is of hard-pressed supporters. It is

:24:32.:24:33.

not just the ticket prices, you not just the ticket prices, you

:24:34.:24:35.

not just the ticket prices, you not just the ticket prices, you

:24:35.:24:38.

have to get down to London as well. have to get down to London as well.

:24:38.:24:41.

have to get down to London as well. And then you're talking about �150

:24:41.:24:44.

And then you're talking about �150 And then you're talking about �150

:24:44.:24:46.

And then you're talking about �150 for an away game. I could have a

:24:46.:24:47.

for an away game. I could have a for an away game. I could have a

:24:47.:24:48.

weekend break in Europe for that weekend break in Europe for that

:24:48.:24:55.

Here in Germany, things could Here in Germany, things could

:24:55.:24:56.

Here in Germany, things could hardly be more different. This is

:24:56.:24:56.

hardly be more different. This is hardly be more different. This is

:24:56.:24:59.

Hannover in the German state of Hannover in the German state of

:24:59.:25:00.

Hannover in the German state of Lower Saxony. Tonight the local

:25:00.:25:01.

Lower Saxony. Tonight the local Lower Saxony. Tonight the local

:25:01.:25:02.

team Hannover 96 are playing in team Hannover 96 are playing in

:25:02.:25:03.

Germany's top league, the Germany's top league, the

:25:03.:25:04.

Germany's top league, the Bundesliga. It is 128 kilometres

:25:04.:25:05.

Bundesliga. It is 128 kilometres Bundesliga. It is 128 kilometres

:25:05.:25:06.

away to Bremen. Quite a distance, away to Bremen. Quite a distance,

:25:06.:25:07.

away to Bremen. Quite a distance, away to Bremen. Quite a distance,

:25:07.:25:08.

away to Bremen. Quite a distance, but it is not a problem for me, or

:25:08.:25:09.

but it is not a problem for me, or but it is not a problem for me, or

:25:09.:25:12.

at least not an expensive one. at least not an expensive one.

:25:12.:25:13.

at least not an expensive one. Because here in Germany my travel

:25:13.:25:14.

Because here in Germany my travel Because here in Germany my travel

:25:14.:25:15.

on public transport in the local on public transport in the local

:25:15.:25:16.

on public transport in the local state comes free with my match

:25:16.:25:17.

state comes free with my match state comes free with my match

:25:17.:25:18.

ticket. In other words, this match ticket. In other words, this match

:25:18.:25:19.

ticket. In other words, this match ticket. In other words, this match

:25:19.:25:21.

ticket doubles up as part of my ticket doubles up as part of my

:25:21.:25:22.

ticket doubles up as part of my ticket doubles up as part of my

:25:22.:25:25.

rail ticket. I will see you at the other end.

:25:25.:25:26.

other end. other end.

:25:26.:25:27.

other end. other end.

:25:27.:25:28.

And when I get to Bremen I can also And when I get to Bremen I can also

:25:28.:25:29.

And when I get to Bremen I can also use my football ticket for all

:25:29.:25:30.

use my football ticket for all use my football ticket for all

:25:30.:25:31.

local public transport, such as local public transport, such as

:25:31.:25:41.
:25:41.:25:42.

local public transport, such as buses and trams to the stadium.

:25:42.:25:43.

buses and trams to the stadium. buses and trams to the stadium.

:25:43.:25:45.

There seems to be a different There seems to be a different

:25:45.:25:47.

philosophy year. There are philosophy year. There are

:25:47.:25:48.

philosophy year. There are affordable prices for almost every

:25:48.:25:52.

affordable prices for almost every affordable prices for almost every

:25:52.:25:55.

affordable prices for almost every bit a. This ticket cost me 19 euros.

:25:55.:25:56.

bit a. This ticket cost me 19 euros. bit a. This ticket cost me 19 euros.

:25:56.:25:57.

bit a. This ticket cost me 19 euros. It is for a standing position but I

:25:57.:25:57.

It is for a standing position but I It is for a standing position but I

:25:58.:25:59.

could have sat down for the could have sat down for the

:25:59.:26:02.

could have sat down for the equivalent of about �25. How much

:26:02.:26:03.

equivalent of about �25. How much equivalent of about �25. How much

:26:03.:26:06.

equivalent of about �25. How much do you pay for your ticket? I paid

:26:06.:26:11.

do you pay for your ticket? I paid do you pay for your ticket? I paid

:26:11.:26:14.

do you pay for your ticket? I paid 30 euros. 13 euros?Yes. A 13. It

:26:14.:26:14.

30 euros. 13 euros?Yes. A 13. It 30 euros. 13 euros?Yes. A 13. It

:26:15.:26:24.

is a little bit expensive. kidding?

:26:24.:26:25.

kidding? kidding?

:26:25.:26:26.

The north of England is where The north of England is where

:26:27.:26:27.

The north of England is where professional football began. It was

:26:27.:26:28.

professional football began. It was professional football began. It was

:26:28.:26:29.

the sport for the masses. Something the sport for the masses. Something

:26:29.:26:30.

the sport for the masses. Something the sport for the masses. Something

:26:30.:26:31.

that most working men, and it was that most working men, and it was

:26:31.:26:32.

that most working men, and it was that most working men, and it was

:26:32.:26:33.

mostly men, could afford to go and mostly men, could afford to go and

:26:33.:26:34.

mostly men, could afford to go and mostly men, could afford to go and

:26:34.:26:34.

watch. But that is a very different watch. But that is a very different

:26:35.:26:35.

watch. But that is a very different era. Today, the beautiful game

:26:35.:26:36.

era. Today, the beautiful game era. Today, the beautiful game

:26:36.:26:41.

stands accused of charging ugly prices.

:26:41.:26:42.

prices. prices.

:26:42.:26:43.

Till the 1990s, watching football Till the 1990s, watching football

:26:43.:26:44.

Till the 1990s, watching football was a relatively cheap past-time.

:26:44.:26:44.

was a relatively cheap past-time. was a relatively cheap past-time.

:26:45.:26:45.

For decades, prices had kept pace For decades, prices had kept pace

:26:45.:26:46.

For decades, prices had kept pace with inflation. But the low prices

:26:47.:26:47.

with inflation. But the low prices with inflation. But the low prices

:26:48.:26:48.

charged to fans for watching charged to fans for watching

:26:48.:26:52.

charged to fans for watching football had its own cost.

:26:52.:26:53.

football had its own cost. football had its own cost.

:26:53.:26:54.

Stadiums became decrepit, which was Stadiums became decrepit, which was

:26:54.:26:55.

Stadiums became decrepit, which was most brutally exposed in the

:26:55.:26:56.

most brutally exposed in the most brutally exposed in the

:26:56.:27:00.

disasters at Valley Parade and Hillsborough.

:27:00.:27:01.

Hillsborough. Hillsborough.

:27:01.:27:02.

The Taylor report that followed The Taylor report that followed

:27:02.:27:03.

Hillsborough recommended all-seater Hillsborough recommended all-seater

:27:03.:27:06.

Hillsborough recommended all-seater stadiums for safety reasons. It

:27:06.:27:07.

stadiums for safety reasons. It stadiums for safety reasons. It

:27:07.:27:08.

also suggested fans be charged �6 also suggested fans be charged �6

:27:08.:27:11.

also suggested fans be charged �6 also suggested fans be charged �6

:27:11.:27:12.

to sit down. In today's money that to sit down. In today's money that

:27:12.:27:18.

is less than �13. is less than �13.

:27:18.:27:19.

is less than �13. We could have picked any Premier

:27:19.:27:20.

We could have picked any Premier We could have picked any Premier

:27:20.:27:21.

League ground in England and the League ground in England and the

:27:21.:27:22.

League ground in England and the League ground in England and the

:27:22.:27:23.

story would be similar. Here at Old story would be similar. Here at Old

:27:23.:27:24.

story would be similar. Here at Old Trafford in 1960, you could stand

:27:24.:27:25.

Trafford in 1960, you could stand Trafford in 1960, you could stand

:27:25.:27:26.

on the Stretford End for 3 on the Stretford End for 3

:27:26.:27:29.

on the Stretford End for 3 shillings and sixpence. That is

:27:29.:27:30.

shillings and sixpence. That is shillings and sixpence. That is

:27:30.:27:31.

about �3.20 in today's money. These about �3.20 in today's money. These

:27:31.:27:32.

about �3.20 in today's money. These days the cheapest seat at Old

:27:32.:27:33.

days the cheapest seat at Old days the cheapest seat at Old

:27:33.:27:34.

Trafford is �42. Allowing for Trafford is �42. Allowing for

:27:34.:27:35.

Trafford is �42. Allowing for inflation, that is �29 more than

:27:35.:27:41.

inflation, that is �29 more than Lord Taylor recommended.

:27:41.:27:42.

Lord Taylor recommended. Lord Taylor recommended.

:27:42.:27:43.

We requested an interview with the We requested an interview with the

:27:43.:27:44.

Chief Executive Premier League, Chief Executive Premier League,

:27:44.:27:44.

Chief Executive Premier League, Richard Scudamore, but he declined.

:27:44.:27:45.

Richard Scudamore, but he declined. Richard Scudamore, but he declined.

:27:45.:27:46.

Richard Scudamore, but he declined. But he did tell BBC radio last

:27:46.:27:47.

But he did tell BBC radio last But he did tell BBC radio last

:27:47.:27:48.

month that the protest by month that the protest by

:27:48.:27:49.

month that the protest by Manchester City fans had not gone

:27:49.:27:59.
:27:59.:28:15.

The Premier League prides itself on The Premier League prides itself on

:28:15.:28:16.

The Premier League prides itself on The Premier League prides itself on

:28:16.:28:17.

the atmosphere, but I have to say the atmosphere, but I have to say

:28:17.:28:18.

the atmosphere, but I have to say that here inside the Weserstadion

:28:18.:28:19.

that here inside the Weserstadion that here inside the Weserstadion

:28:19.:28:20.

in Bremen is sensational. The in Bremen is sensational. The

:28:20.:28:20.

weather's the same, mind. weather's the same, mind.

:28:21.:28:21.

weather's the same, mind. Weather aside, the Bundesliga and

:28:21.:28:22.

Weather aside, the Bundesliga and Weather aside, the Bundesliga and

:28:22.:28:23.

the Premier League have much in the Premier League have much in

:28:23.:28:24.

the Premier League have much in common. Where they differ currently

:28:24.:28:25.

common. Where they differ currently common. Where they differ currently

:28:25.:28:26.

is over their ticket price is over their ticket price

:28:26.:28:26.

is over their ticket price philosophy. But with political and

:28:27.:28:28.

philosophy. But with political and philosophy. But with political and

:28:28.:28:28.

fan pressure growing in England, fan pressure growing in England,

:28:28.:28:29.

fan pressure growing in England, the Manchester City protest may

:28:29.:28:30.

the Manchester City protest may the Manchester City protest may

:28:30.:28:36.

the Manchester City protest may So what price loyalty? If you have

:28:36.:28:37.

So what price loyalty? If you have So what price loyalty? If you have

:28:37.:28:38.

So what price loyalty? If you have view on the cost of following your

:28:38.:28:39.

view on the cost of following your view on the cost of following your

:28:39.:28:40.

team, you can let me know. team, you can let me know.

:28:40.:28:41.

team, you can let me know. team, you can let me know.

:28:41.:28:46.

That is it for tonight. Next week: That is it for tonight. Next week:

:28:46.:28:47.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS