25/02/2013 Inside Out North West

Hello, welcome to Inside Out. This Hello, welcome to Inside Out. This

Hello, welcome to Inside Out. This Hello, welcome to Inside Out. This

week, we are at the Triangle in week, we are at the Triangle in

week, we are at the Triangle in Burnley where there is a campaign

Burnley where there is a campaign Burnley where there is a campaign

to save the town's textile mills. to save the town's textile mills.

On tonight's programme, the On tonight's programme, the

campaigners concerned that would campaigners concerned that would

campaigners concerned that would does could be damaging their health.

does could be damaging their health. does could be damaging their health.

does could be damaging their health. I had to go to the doctors because

I had to go to the doctors because I had to go to the doctors because

I had to go to the doctors because I had to go to the doctors because

I would go up with a hole in my septum.

septum. septum.

Why is the British Premier League Why is the British Premier League

Why is the British Premier League Why is the British Premier League

so pricey for the fans? We find out so pricey for the fans? We find out

so pricey for the fans? We find out so pricey for the fans? We find out

how they'd do it in Germany. For my how they'd do it in Germany. For my

how they'd do it in Germany. For my ticket, 13 euros. About �10! That's

amazing. amazing.

amazing. amazing.

And, at the man on a mission to And, at the man on a mission to

And, at the man on a mission to save the region's called textile

save the region's called textile save the region's called textile

mills. From a heritage point of mills. From a heritage point of

mills. From a heritage point of We all know about the dangers of

We all know about the dangers of We all know about the dangers of

asbestos and cigarette smoke. asbestos and cigarette smoke.

asbestos and cigarette smoke. asbestos and cigarette smoke.

only a few decades ago, they were only a few decades ago, they were

only a few decades ago, they were thought to be perfectly safe. Now,

thought to be perfectly safe. Now, thought to be perfectly safe. Now,

a group of campaigners in the a group of campaigners in the

north-west are concerned that north-west are concerned that

north-west are concerned that similar dangers might be present in

wood dust. wood dust.

wood dust. They save our local authorities

They save our local authorities They save our local authorities

millions of pounds in landfill millions of pounds in landfill

millions of pounds in landfill costs and provide work for hundreds

costs and provide work for hundreds costs and provide work for hundreds

of people. Wood processing plants of people. Wood processing plants

of people. Wood processing plants across the country take the waste

across the country take the waste across the country take the waste

across the country take the waste wood we don't want and turn it into

wood we don't want and turn it into wood we don't want and turn it into

something we do - like chipboard something we do - like chipboard

something we do - like chipboard and animal bedding. But people

and animal bedding. But people and animal bedding. But people

living near the wood processing living near the wood processing

living near the wood processing plants claim these kinds of sites

plants claim these kinds of sites plants claim these kinds of sites

are making them ill. In Horwich are making them ill. In Horwich

near Bolton, Armstrongs near Bolton, Armstrongs

Environmental Services recycles Environmental Services recycles

Environmental Services recycles waste wood but local people claim

waste wood but local people claim waste wood but local people claim

waste wood but local people claim the site is giving off dust which

the site is giving off dust which the site is giving off dust which

is affecting their health. is affecting their health.

is affecting their health. summer, you are breathing it in

summer, you are breathing it in summer, you are breathing it in

summer, you are breathing it in every time you walk out of the door.

every time you walk out of the door. every time you walk out of the door.

every time you walk out of the door. Every time you go out to breathe it

Every time you go out to breathe it Every time you go out to breathe it

in. You put your garden furniture in. You put your garden furniture

in. You put your garden furniture out, within five minutes, it is

out, within five minutes, it is out, within five minutes, it is

covered. The car is covered. Not covered. The car is covered. Not

covered. The car is covered. Not only mind, everybody's. It affects

only mind, everybody's. It affects only mind, everybody's. It affects

only mind, everybody's. It affects my eyesight. My eyes are full of it,

my eyesight. My eyes are full of it, my eyesight. My eyes are full of it,

my eyesight. My eyes are full of it, they are gritty. I get sneezing. I

they are gritty. I get sneezing. I they are gritty. I get sneezing. I

have sneezing fits. I have started have sneezing fits. I have started

have sneezing fits. I have started getting nosebleeds which cannot be

getting nosebleeds which cannot be getting nosebleeds which cannot be

used to get. So obviously, used to get. So obviously,

used to get. So obviously, used to get. So obviously,

something is causing it. I think it something is causing it. I think it

something is causing it. I think it something is causing it. I think it

is the dust. And people living near is the dust. And people living near

is the dust. And people living near to other sites across the North

to other sites across the North to other sites across the North

west are also complaining about the west are also complaining about the

west are also complaining about the effects of dust. The Sonae factory

effects of dust. The Sonae factory effects of dust. The Sonae factory

at Kirkby on Merseyside was the at Kirkby on Merseyside was the

at Kirkby on Merseyside was the target of protests from local

target of protests from local target of protests from local

people complaining of the dust and people complaining of the dust and

people complaining of the dust and noise before it closed last year.

noise before it closed last year. noise before it closed last year.

Plevins, a wood processing plant at Plevins, a wood processing plant at

Mossley in Greater Manchester, Mossley in Greater Manchester,

Mossley in Greater Manchester, Mossley in Greater Manchester,

grinds down waste wood and turns it grinds down waste wood and turns it

grinds down waste wood and turns it into pet bedding. People living

into pet bedding. People living into pet bedding. People living

into pet bedding. People living nearby have set up a campaign group

nearby have set up a campaign group nearby have set up a campaign group

and have been recording video and have been recording video

and have been recording video evidence of the problem. These

evidence of the problem. These evidence of the problem. These

pictures were shot before the pictures were shot before the

pictures were shot before the company put up an acoustic barrier

company put up an acoustic barrier company put up an acoustic barrier

company put up an acoustic barrier and lowered the height of the pile.

and lowered the height of the pile. and lowered the height of the pile.

Bernie Dolan, her husband and four Bernie Dolan, her husband and four

Bernie Dolan, her husband and four children have lived just above the

children have lived just above the children have lived just above the

children have lived just above the plant for the last four and a half

plant for the last four and a half plant for the last four and a half

years. It started about a year years. It started about a year

years. It started about a year years. It started about a year

after we moved in. I noted that the after we moved in. I noted that the

after we moved in. I noted that the kids were getting asthma and hay

kids were getting asthma and hay kids were getting asthma and hay

fever and things like that. That fever and things like that. That

fever and things like that. That fever and things like that. That

they had never had before. And they they had never had before. And they

they had never had before. And they were saying that their nose was

were saying that their nose was were saying that their nose was

bleeding. I noticed that mind bleeding. I noticed that mind

bleeding. I noticed that mind started as well. -- that mine

started as well. -- that mine started as well. -- that mine

started as well. -- that mine started as well. -- that mine

started as well. I had to go to the started as well. I had to go to the

started as well. I had to go to the started as well. I had to go to the

doctor because I woke up with a doctor because I woke up with a

doctor because I woke up with a hole in my septum. You are

hole in my septum. You are hole in my septum. You are

convinced that your problem is to convinced that your problem is to

convinced that your problem is to convinced that your problem is to

do with living here? Yes, we never do with living here? Yes, we never

do with living here? Yes, we never had problems before. My older son

had problems before. My older son had problems before. My older son

had problems before. My older son sneezes about 18 times a day. It is

sneezes about 18 times a day. It is sneezes about 18 times a day. It is

constant. As though something is constant. As though something is

constant. As though something is constant. As though something is

irritating him. He does not do it irritating him. He does not do it

irritating him. He does not do it irritating him. He does not do it

when we are away and when we are when we are away and when we are

when we are away and when we are away from the house. They normally

away from the house. They normally away from the house. They normally

away from the house. They normally come in in lorries. Further up the

come in in lorries. Further up the come in in lorries. Further up the

come in in lorries. Further up the hill is Donna Liley. She and Bernie

hill is Donna Liley. She and Bernie hill is Donna Liley. She and Bernie

did a health survey of people did a health survey of people

did a health survey of people did a health survey of people

living near the plant. We got a living near the plant. We got a

living near the plant. We got a group together and did a door-to-

group together and did a door-to- group together and did a door-to-

door survey. About 600 houses. door survey. About 600 houses.

door survey. About 600 houses. door survey. About 600 houses.

About 100 people came back to say About 100 people came back to say

About 100 people came back to say they had nosebleeds and a

they had nosebleeds and a respiratory problems, unexplained

respiratory problems, unexplained respiratory problems, unexplained

chest problems. We asked them if chest problems. We asked them if

chest problems. We asked them if chest problems. We asked them if

they had been to the GP. Most of they had been to the GP. Most of

they had been to the GP. Most of they had been to the GP. Most of

them had. We presented this to the them had. We presented this to the

Health Protection Agency and Health Protection Agency and

Health Protection Agency and Tameside Council. Their reply, the

Tameside Council. Their reply, the Tameside Council. Their reply, the

Tameside Council. Their reply, the HFEA, said that it was higher --

HFEA, said that it was higher -- HFEA, said that it was higher --

highly unlikely to be associated highly unlikely to be associated

highly unlikely to be associated highly unlikely to be associated

with wood dust. -- the age PA. with wood dust. -- the age PA.

with wood dust. -- the age PA. with wood dust. -- the age PA.

else have you done to do something else have you done to do something

else have you done to do something else have you done to do something

about it? We have linked up with about it? We have linked up with

about it? We have linked up with other groups and found similar

other groups and found similar communities living alongside board

communities living alongside board communities living alongside board

manufacturing with the same health manufacturing with the same health

manufacturing with the same health manufacturing with the same health

issues. So is a rocket science? Of issues. So is a rocket science? Of

issues. So is a rocket science? Of a mistaken, or is there a

a mistaken, or is there a connection? The World Health

connection? The World Health connection? The World Health

Organisation has long been aware of Organisation has long been aware of

Organisation has long been aware of Organisation has long been aware of

the dangers of wood dust and states the dangers of wood dust and states

the dangers of wood dust and states that it's a grade one carcinogen

that it's a grade one carcinogen that it's a grade one carcinogen

that it's a grade one carcinogen which means it can cause cancer. It

which means it can cause cancer. It which means it can cause cancer. It

recommends that there be no more recommends that there be no more

recommends that there be no more than 10 microgrammes of the finest

than 10 microgrammes of the finest than 10 microgrammes of the finest

than 10 microgrammes of the finest dust per cubic metre of air. In the

dust per cubic metre of air. In the dust per cubic metre of air. In the

UK, the government, in line with UK, the government, in line with

UK, the government, in line with the European Union has set the

the European Union has set the the European Union has set the

standard at 25 microgrammes a day, standard at 25 microgrammes a day,

standard at 25 microgrammes a day, 2.5 times the recommended level.

2.5 times the recommended level. 2.5 times the recommended level.

This is where the Environment This is where the Environment

This is where the Environment Agency conducts tests using this

Agency conducts tests using this Agency conducts tests using this

Agency conducts tests using this equipment and the levels of dust in

equipment and the levels of dust in equipment and the levels of dust in

equipment and the levels of dust in the air. It has always found at the

the air. It has always found at the the air. It has always found at the

levels are within UK guidelines. levels are within UK guidelines.

levels are within UK guidelines. The campaigners have linked up with

The campaigners have linked up with The campaigners have linked up with

Graham player. He is a retired Graham player. He is a retired

Graham player. He is a retired particle physicist with 40 years'

particle physicist with 40 years' particle physicist with 40 years'

experience. The reason wood dust is experience. The reason wood dust is

experience. The reason wood dust is experience. The reason wood dust is

a hazard is because it is such a hazard is because it is such

small, fine, particulate material small, fine, particulate material

small, fine, particulate material containing silica. Silica is well

containing silica. Silica is well containing silica. Silica is well

known to be a cancer-causing agent. known to be a cancer-causing agent.

known to be a cancer-causing agent. If you are inhaling it in

If you are inhaling it in sufficient quantities, you are

sufficient quantities, you are sufficient quantities, you are

sufficient quantities, you are going to suffer ill health. What do

going to suffer ill health. What do going to suffer ill health. What do

you think about residents living so you think about residents living so

you think about residents living so you think about residents living so

close to a site like this? Quite close to a site like this? Quite

close to a site like this? Quite close to a site like this? Quite

frankly, I would wear a face mask. frankly, I would wear a face mask.

frankly, I would wear a face mask. frankly, I would wear a face mask.

We put the case to Waban, an We put the case to Waban, an

independent occupational hygienist. independent occupational hygienist.

independent occupational hygienist. -- Robin Howie. He believes

-- Robin Howie. He believes -- Robin Howie. He believes

standards should be tightened. standards should be tightened.

standards should be tightened. think our standards, if they are

think our standards, if they are think our standards, if they are

the missing some individuals to the missing some individuals to

the missing some individuals to suffer ill-effects, they are not

suffer ill-effects, they are not sufficiently stringent. So what

sufficiently stringent. So what sufficiently stringent. So what

sufficiently stringent. So what would you like to see? I would go

would you like to see? I would go would you like to see? I would go

back and say, you're making dust, back and say, you're making dust,

back and say, you're making dust, back and say, you're making dust,

even if it is below current levels, even if it is below current levels,

even if it is below current levels, even if it is below current levels,

you are in fault and should not be you are in fault and should not be

you are in fault and should not be releasing dust. You have a duty

releasing dust. You have a duty releasing dust. You have a duty

releasing dust. You have a duty under the law to ensure of the

under the law to ensure of the under the law to ensure of the

health of your neighbours. And we health of your neighbours. And we

health of your neighbours. And we health of your neighbours. And we

should enforce it. I went to see should enforce it. I went to see

should enforce it. I went to see the Environment Agency, who in

the Environment Agency, who in the Environment Agency, who in

response to Donna and Bernie's response to Donna and Bernie's

response to Donna and Bernie's campaign, have been carrying out

campaign, have been carrying out campaign, have been carrying out

rigorous testing of the air quality rigorous testing of the air quality

rigorous testing of the air quality We are working with the local

We are working with the local We are working with the local

Health Protection people, they need Health Protection people, they need

Health Protection people, they need to work with us. The Health

to work with us. The Health to work with us. The Health

Protection Agency was set up 10 Protection Agency was set up 10

Protection Agency was set up 10 years ago to protect the public

years ago to protect the public from infectious diseases and

from infectious diseases and from infectious diseases and

environmental hazards. It says that environmental hazards. It says that

environmental hazards. It says that there is no significant health risk

there is no significant health risk associated with particular to

associated with particular to associated with particular to

associated with particular to emissions from of the site. It says

emissions from of the site. It says emissions from of the site. It says

that despite offering to discuss that despite offering to discuss

that despite offering to discuss these -- the evidence with health

these -- the evidence with health these -- the evidence with health

professionals near the site, no professionals near the site, no

professionals near the site, no clinical care stuff came forward to

clinical care stuff came forward to clinical care stuff came forward to

talk about their concerns. None of talk about their concerns. None of

talk about their concerns. None of the plants mentioned in this film

the plants mentioned in this film the plants mentioned in this film

would agree to be interviewed. would agree to be interviewed.

However, Armstrong's Environmental However, Armstrong's Environmental

Services reiterated that they Services reiterated that they

operate within the regulations. operate within the regulations.

operate within the regulations. operate within the regulations.

Sonae -- Sonae said that there had Sonae -- Sonae said that there had

Sonae -- Sonae said that there had Sonae -- Sonae said that there had

been known -- they had been at no been known -- they had been at no

been known -- they had been at no issues for them. Plevins issued

issues for them. Plevins issued this statement, Levin's

this statement, Levin's environmental responsibilities are

environmental responsibilities are paramount. We take our

paramount. We take our responsibilities to the community

responsibilities to the community responsibilities to the community

seriously and continually strive to seriously and continually strive to

seriously and continually strive to engage both residents over their

engage both residents over their engage both residents over their

concerns. We operate within the law concerns. We operate within the law

concerns. We operate within the law in a heavily regulated industry.

in a heavily regulated industry. in a heavily regulated industry.

The marching other side has The marching other side has

The marching other side has demonstrated no breach of its air

quality standards. quality standards.

quality standards. quality standards.

A in the past few weeks, the World A in the past few weeks, the World

A in the past few weeks, the World Health Organisation has told the

Health Organisation has told the Health Organisation has told the

European Commission that there is European Commission that there is

European Commission that there is new evidence to show that their

new evidence to show that their new evidence to show that their

standards are not stringent enough. standards are not stringent enough.

standards are not stringent enough. It has been rather overlooked in

It has been rather overlooked in It has been rather overlooked in

the bigger picture. People forget the bigger picture. People forget

the bigger picture. People forget that over 400,000 people die each

that over 400,000 people die each that over 400,000 people die each

year in the EU because of year in the EU because of

respiratory diseases or respiratory diseases or

cardiovascular diseases. They are cardiovascular diseases. They are

cardiovascular diseases. They are mainly caused by air pollution.

mainly caused by air pollution. mainly caused by air pollution.

will the European Commission drop will the European Commission drop

will the European Commission drop will the European Commission drop

the levels and what would they drop the levels and what would they drop

the levels and what would they drop the levels and what would they drop

them to? It is likely they will them to? It is likely they will

them to? It is likely they will them to? It is likely they will

drop the levels but we will have to drop the levels but we will have to

drop the levels but we will have to have the discussion with the member

have the discussion with the member have the discussion with the member

states. We need to change the states. We need to change the

states. We need to change the directive are so the commissioner

directive are so the commissioner directive are so the commissioner

will make a proposal, which is will make a proposal, which is

will make a proposal, which is either require from a public health

either require from a public health either require from a public health

or environmental point of view, or environmental point of view,

or environmental point of view, or environmental point of view,

then it is up to the individual then it is up to the individual

then it is up to the individual parliaments to agree those changes.

parliaments to agree those changes. parliaments to agree those changes.

Dollar and Bernie say they will Dollar and Bernie say they will

Dollar and Bernie say they will continue their campaign and they

continue their campaign and they continue their campaign and they

are optimistic their voices will be are optimistic their voices will be

are optimistic their voices will be are optimistic their voices will be

heard. It is great that the World heard. It is great that the World

heard. It is great that the World Health Organisation has realised it

Health Organisation has realised it Health Organisation has realised it

is a greater problem than they is a greater problem than they

is a greater problem than they anticipated. So that is encouraging.

anticipated. So that is encouraging. anticipated. So that is encouraging.

We will liaise with other We will liaise with other

We will liaise with other organisations around the country at

organisations around the country at organisations around the country at

present our findings to them and present our findings to them and

present our findings to them and present our findings to them and

give them our report for what we give them our report for what we

give them our report for what we give them our report for what we

think is a problem. So the fight think is a problem. So the fight

think is a problem. So the fight think is a problem. So the fight

goes on? Yes. And if the World goes on? Yes. And if the World

goes on? Yes. And if the World Health Organisation says it is a

Health Organisation says it is a Health Organisation says it is a

carcinogen, we want that recognised. carcinogen, we want that recognised.

carcinogen, we want that recognised. BBC Radio Manchester will have more

BBC Radio Manchester will have more BBC Radio Manchester will have more

on that story tomorrow morning. on that story tomorrow morning.

on that story tomorrow morning. Coming up, and industrial heritage

Coming up, and industrial heritage Coming up, and industrial heritage

Coming up, and industrial heritage under threat. We meet the man tried

under threat. We meet the man tried under threat. We meet the man tried

under threat. We meet the man tried Welcome to the Bundesliga. More

Welcome to the Bundesliga. More spectators crammed into Germany's

spectators crammed into Germany's spectators crammed into Germany's

vast stadia than in any other vast stadia than in any other

vast stadia than in any other football league in the world, even

football league in the world, even football league in the world, even

England. It is important to point England. It is important to point

England. It is important to point out that the Bundesliga remains way

out that the Bundesliga remains way behind the Premier League

behind the Premier League financially and in global

financially and in global financially and in global

popularity but with its philosophy popularity but with its philosophy

of maintaining affordable match of maintaining affordable match

of maintaining affordable match of maintaining affordable match

tickets, or will it prove a winner tickets, or will it prove a winner

tickets, or will it prove a winner tickets, or will it prove a winner

in the long term? Right from the in the long term? Right from the

in the long term? Right from the time the Premier League was formed

time the Premier League was formed time the Premier League was formed

in 1992, fans have grumbled about in 1992, fans have grumbled about

in 1992, fans have grumbled about rising ticket costs but they have

rising ticket costs but they have rising ticket costs but they have

rising ticket costs but they have always paid up in the end. But last

always paid up in the end. But last always paid up in the end. But last

month, Manchester City fans made month, Manchester City fans made

month, Manchester City fans made month, Manchester City fans made

what could turn out to be a what could turn out to be a

what could turn out to be a significant gesture. Almost a third

significant gesture. Almost a third significant gesture. Almost a third

of their ticket applications for of their ticket applications for

of their ticket applications for their game at Arsenal went unsold.

their game at Arsenal went unsold. their game at Arsenal went unsold.

their game at Arsenal went unsold. By refusing to fork out, fans were

By refusing to fork out, fans were By refusing to fork out, fans were

sending a message to the Premier sending a message to the Premier

sending a message to the Premier sending a message to the Premier

League. A lot of people say, don't League. A lot of people say, don't

League. A lot of people say, don't League. A lot of people say, don't

go, show why not offending and that go, show why not offending and that

go, show why not offending and that go, show why not offending and that

will hit clubs in the pocket, but will hit clubs in the pocket, but

will hit clubs in the pocket, but will hit clubs in the pocket, but

for a fan's point of view, why for a fan's point of view, why

for a fan's point of view, why for a fan's point of view, why

should we be driven away from our should we be driven away from our

should we be driven away from our should we be driven away from our

club? And fans of other clubs agree. club? And fans of other clubs agree.

club? And fans of other clubs agree. The price has been getting dearer

The price has been getting dearer The price has been getting dearer

The price has been getting dearer and dearer. At one time you could

and dearer. At one time you could and dearer. At one time you could

and dearer. At one time you could pay �10 and that has -- and that

pay �10 and that has -- and that pay �10 and that has -- and that

pay �10 and that has -- and that was plenty. It is too much. When I

was plenty. It is too much. When I was plenty. It is too much. When I

started it was very much the started it was very much the

started it was very much the started it was very much the

working man's game. Now I think the working man's game. Now I think the

working man's game. Now I think the working man has been squeezed out.

working man has been squeezed out. working man has been squeezed out.

Mark Palios is a former chief Mark Palios is a former chief

Mark Palios is a former chief executive of the former association.

executive of the former association. executive of the former association.

He has witnessed the business of He has witnessed the business of

He has witnessed the business of football from many angles, having

football from many angles, having football from many angles, having

played 17 seasons for Tranmere played 17 seasons for Tranmere

played 17 seasons for Tranmere before becoming a senior partner

before becoming a senior partner before becoming a senior partner

after a firm of accountants. Our after a firm of accountants. Our

after a firm of accountants. Our ticket prices in the Premier League

ticket prices in the Premier League ticket prices in the Premier League

ticket prices in the Premier League simply too high? When you look at

simply too high? When you look at simply too high? When you look at

it, it is an inescapable conclusion it, it is an inescapable conclusion

it, it is an inescapable conclusion it, it is an inescapable conclusion

that there has to be a limit. If that there has to be a limit. If

that there has to be a limit. If that there has to be a limit. If

you look at it and you then start you look at it and you then start

you look at it and you then start you look at it and you then start

to add on travel costs as well, as to add on travel costs as well, as

to add on travel costs as well, as a piece of entertainment for a

a piece of entertainment for a a piece of entertainment for a

a piece of entertainment for a father and a few kids, you are

father and a few kids, you are father and a few kids, you are

starting to really struggle. starting to really struggle.

starting to really struggle. starting to really struggle.

former player who has played at the former player who has played at the

former player who has played at the very top in both England and

very top in both England and very top in both England and

very top in both England and Germany comes down on the side of

Germany comes down on the side of Germany comes down on the side of

hard-pressed supporters. It is not hard-pressed supporters. It is not

hard-pressed supporters. It is not hard-pressed supporters. It is not

just the ticket price. You need to just the ticket price. You need to

just the ticket price. You need to just the ticket price. You need to

get down to London which is an get down to London which is an

get down to London which is an extra cost, maybe have a sandwich

extra cost, maybe have a sandwich extra cost, maybe have a sandwich

extra cost, maybe have a sandwich extra cost, maybe have a sandwich

and a drink at the game and you are and a drink at the game and you are

and a drink at the game and you are and a drink at the game and you are

talking about 150 quid for an away talking about 150 quid for an away

talking about 150 quid for an away talking about 150 quid for an away

game. 150 quid? I could have an -- game. 150 quid? I could have an --

game. 150 quid? I could have an -- game. 150 quid? I could have an --

a weekend away in Europe for that a weekend away in Europe for that

a weekend away in Europe for that a weekend away in Europe for that

money. So I did. Here in Germany, money. So I did. Here in Germany,

money. So I did. Here in Germany, things could not be more different.

things could not be more different. things could not be more different.

things could not be more different. This is Hanover in Lower Saxony and

This is Hanover in Lower Saxony and This is Hanover in Lower Saxony and

tonight the local team, Hannover 96, tonight the local team, Hannover 96,

tonight the local team, Hannover 96, tonight the local team, Hannover 96,

is playing in the top division, the is playing in the top division, the

is playing in the top division, the Bundesliga. Bremen is 128: It does

Bundesliga. Bremen is 128: It does Bundesliga. Bremen is 128: It does

Bundesliga. Bremen is 128: It does away but that is not a problem, at

away but that is not a problem, at away but that is not a problem, at

least not an expensive one. -- least not an expensive one. --

least not an expensive one. -- Bremen is 128 kilometres away. That

Bremen is 128 kilometres away. That Bremen is 128 kilometres away. That

Bremen is 128 kilometres away. That is because when you have a ticket

is because when you have a ticket is because when you have a ticket

is because when you have a ticket for the match, you can also get the

for the match, you can also get the for the match, you can also get the

for the match, you can also get the train for free. When I get to

train for free. When I get to train for free. When I get to

train for free. When I get to Brehme and I can also use my

Brehme and I can also use my Brehme and I can also use my

football ticket for all local football ticket for all local

football ticket for all local public transport such as buses and

public transport such as buses and public transport such as buses and

public transport such as buses and trams to the stadium. We are now

trams to the stadium. We are now trams to the stadium. We are now

trams to the stadium. We are now going over the top and there does

going over the top and there does going over the top and there does

seem to be a slightly different seem to be a slightly different

seem to be a slightly different philosophy. They make sure they are

philosophy. They make sure they are affordable tickets for every

affordable tickets for every affordable tickets for every

Bundesliga match. This cost me 19 Bundesliga match. This cost me 19

Bundesliga match. This cost me 19 euros. It is for a standing

euros. It is for a standing euros. It is for a standing

euros. It is for a standing position but I could have sat down

position but I could have sat down position but I could have sat down

for the equivalent of about �20. for the equivalent of about �20.

for the equivalent of about �20. for the equivalent of about �20.

How much did you pay for your How much did you pay for your

How much did you pay for your How much did you pay for your

ticket and what you think of that? ticket and what you think of that?

ticket and what you think of that? 13 euros. About �10.That is

13 euros. About �10.That is 13 euros. About �10.That is

amazing. It is a little bit amazing. It is a little bit

amazing. It is a little bit expensive. You are kidding? No. It

expensive. You are kidding? No. It expensive. You are kidding? No. It

expensive. You are kidding? No. It is too much in England. Many young

is too much in England. Many young is too much in England. Many young

people cannot buy these tickets. It people cannot buy these tickets. It

people cannot buy these tickets. It people cannot buy these tickets. It

is too much. Thomas is a social is too much. Thomas is a social

is too much. Thomas is a social is too much. Thomas is a social

worker in at Bremen. He is a key worker in at Bremen. He is a key

worker in at Bremen. He is a key link between the Football Club and

link between the Football Club and link between the Football Club and

its most fanatical fans. Football its most fanatical fans. Football

its most fanatical fans. Football fans in Jerry are not companies.

fans in Jerry are not companies. fans in Jerry are not companies.

They have social responsibility. -- They have social responsibility. --

They have social responsibility. -- football clubs the net Germany who

football clubs the net Germany who football clubs the net Germany who

football clubs the net Germany who are not companies. And is that a

are not companies. And is that a are not companies. And is that a

different philosophy or is it a different philosophy or is it a

different philosophy or is it a financial decision? I think it is

financial decision? I think it is financial decision? I think it is

financial decision? I think it is both. The North of England is where

both. The North of England is where both. The North of England is where

professional football began. It was professional football began. It was

professional football began. It was a sport for the masses, something

a sport for the masses, something a sport for the masses, something

a sport for the masses, something that most working men, and it was

that most working men, and it was that most working men, and it was

that most working men, and it was mostly men, could afford to go and

mostly men, could afford to go and mostly men, could afford to go and

mostly men, could afford to go and watch, but that is a very different

watch, but that is a very different watch, but that is a very different

era. Today the beautiful game era. Today the beautiful game

era. Today the beautiful game stands accused of charging up the

stands accused of charging up the stands accused of charging up the

prices. Until the 1990s, watching prices. Until the 1990s, watching

prices. Until the 1990s, watching football is a relatively cheap

football is a relatively cheap football is a relatively cheap

pastime. Over the decades, prices pastime. Over the decades, prices

pastime. Over the decades, prices kept in place with inflation. But

kept in place with inflation. But kept in place with inflation. But

that had its own problems. Stadiums that had its own problems. Stadiums

that had its own problems. Stadiums became decrepit, which was most

became decrepit, which was most became decrepit, which was most

brutally exposed in the disasters brutally exposed in the disasters

brutally exposed in the disasters at Valley Parade and Hillsborough.

at Valley Parade and Hillsborough. at Valley Parade and Hillsborough.

The Taylor report that followed The Taylor report that followed

Hillsborough recommended all-seater Hillsborough recommended all-seater

Hillsborough recommended all-seater stadiums for safety reasons. It

stadiums for safety reasons. It stadiums for safety reasons. It

also suggested fans be charged �6 also suggested fans be charged �6

also suggested fans be charged �6 also suggested fans be charged �6

to dig down. In today's money back to dig down. In today's money back

to dig down. In today's money back to dig down. In today's money back

is less than �13. -- to sit down. is less than �13. -- to sit down.

is less than �13. -- to sit down. is less than �13. -- to sit down.

We could have been to any English We could have been to any English

We could have been to any English Premier League town and the story

Premier League town and the story Premier League town and the story

Premier League town and the story would have been the same. Here at

would have been the same. Here at would have been the same. Here at

Old Trafford in 1960 you could Old Trafford in 1960 you could

Old Trafford in 1960 you could stand on the Stretford End for

stand on the Stretford End for stand on the Stretford End for

three shillings and sixpence, about three shillings and sixpence, about

three shillings and sixpence, about �3.20 in today's money. The

�3.20 in today's money. The �3.20 in today's money. The

�3.20 in today's money. The cheapest seat now it is �42, �29

cheapest seat now it is �42, �29 cheapest seat now it is �42, �29

more than Lord Taylor recommended. more than Lord Taylor recommended.

more than Lord Taylor recommended. We requested end interview with the

We requested end interview with the We requested end interview with the

chief executive of the Premier chief executive of the Premier

chief executive of the Premier League, Richard Scudamore, but he

League, Richard Scudamore, but he League, Richard Scudamore, but he

League, Richard Scudamore, but he declined, but he did tell BBC radio

declined, but he did tell BBC radio declined, but he did tell BBC radio

last month that the protest by last month that the protest by

last month that the protest by Manchester City fans had not gone

Manchester City fans had not gone Manchester City fans had not gone

unnoticed. Mark Palios says fans in unnoticed. Mark Palios says fans in

unnoticed. Mark Palios says fans in England should not expect ticket

England should not expect ticket England should not expect ticket

prices to fall any time soon prices to fall any time soon

prices to fall any time soon because Premier League clubs are a

because Premier League clubs are a globally competitive market. Yes,

globally competitive market. Yes, globally competitive market. Yes,

globally competitive market. Yes, they play in the English League and

they play in the English League and they play in the English League and

the FA has jurisdiction over that the FA has jurisdiction over that

the FA has jurisdiction over that league. But the clubs also compete

league. But the clubs also compete league. But the clubs also compete

on international basis. They play on international basis. They play

on international basis. They play in Europe and they complete --

in Europe and they complete -- in Europe and they complete --

compete globally for their players compete globally for their players

compete globally for their players so until you can actually control

so until you can actually control so until you can actually control

the people they are competing the people they are competing

against, Barcelona, Madrid, you against, Barcelona, Madrid, you

cannot put restrictions on cannot put restrictions on

cannot put restrictions on Manchester United, for example, or

Manchester United, for example, or Manchester United, for example, or

Arsenal. Otherwise our clubs would Arsenal. Otherwise our clubs would

be active disadvantage. English be active disadvantage. English

be active disadvantage. English football is a huge economic export

football is a huge economic export football is a huge economic export

football is a huge economic export story for UK plc but for the

story for UK plc but for the story for UK plc but for the

Premier League to continue to Premier League to continue to

Premier League to continue to thrive, those in charge may be

thrive, those in charge may be thrive, those in charge may be

forced to remind themselves that forced to remind themselves that

forced to remind themselves that forced to remind themselves that

the fans are not just there to the fans are not just there to

the fans are not just there to the fans are not just there to

watch the show. They are a crucial watch the show. They are a crucial

element of the show. element of the show.

element of the show. Up there has been a great

Up there has been a great Up there has been a great

Up there has been a great atmosphere here but for a -- this

atmosphere here but for a -- this atmosphere here but for a -- this

has been a great atmosphere. has been a great atmosphere.

has been a great atmosphere. Weather aside, the Bundesliga and

Weather aside, the Bundesliga and Weather aside, the Bundesliga and

the Premier League have much in the Premier League have much in

the Premier League have much in common. Where they differ currently

common. Where they differ currently common. Where they differ currently

common. Where they differ currently is over their ticket price a loss

is over their ticket price a loss is over their ticket price a loss

is over their ticket price a loss of the but with pressure to bring

of the but with pressure to bring in England, Manchester City's

in England, Manchester City's in England, Manchester City's

in England, Manchester City's protest may come to be seen as a

tipping point. tipping point.

tipping point. Textile mills like these ones may

Textile mills like these ones may Textile mills like these ones may

Textile mills like these ones may be North West the cotton kings of

be North West the cotton kings of be North West the cotton kings of

the world but today, with the the world but today, with the

recession, these buildings are recession, these buildings are

recession, these buildings are recession, these buildings are

under threat as never before. Now a under threat as never before. Now a

under threat as never before. Now a unique project is under way to

unique project is under way to unique project is under way to

document all the surviving cotton document all the surviving cotton

document all the surviving cotton mills in Lancashire for the very

mills in Lancashire for the very mills in Lancashire for the very

mills in Lancashire for the very first time and we follow one man's

first time and we follow one man's first time and we follow one man's

first time and we follow one man's quest to visit the best of them

quest to visit the best of them quest to visit the best of them

before the bulldozers move in. before the bulldozers move in.

before the bulldozers move in. They dominate the skyline in towns

They dominate the skyline in towns They dominate the skyline in towns

and cities across the North West. and cities across the North West.

and cities across the North West. But today, hundreds of crumbling

But today, hundreds of crumbling But today, hundreds of crumbling

textile mills are under threat from textile mills are under threat from

neglect and possible demolition. neglect and possible demolition.

neglect and possible demolition. Ian Miller is a professional

Ian Miller is a professional Ian Miller is a professional

archaeologist whose job is to archaeologist whose job is to

document and preserve these document and preserve these

document and preserve these buildings. He has come to Bamber

buildings. He has come to Bamber buildings. He has come to Bamber

buildings. He has come to Bamber Bridge near Preston to look at this

Bridge near Preston to look at this Bridge near Preston to look at this

one. What is the largest single one. What is the largest single

one. What is the largest single edifice on the horizon? This. So

edifice on the horizon? This. So edifice on the horizon? This. So

edifice on the horizon? This. So from a heritage 0.2 few, it really

from a heritage 0.2 few, it really does characterise Lancashire itself,

does characterise Lancashire itself, does characterise Lancashire itself,

does characterise Lancashire itself, the cotton mill,. -- point of view.

the cotton mill,. -- point of view. the cotton mill,. -- point of view.

the cotton mill,. -- point of view. The owner of this male wants to

The owner of this male wants to The owner of this male wants to

The owner of this male wants to demolish it and replace it with 200

demolish it and replace it with 200 demolish it and replace it with 200

family homes. -- this gum. The family homes. -- this gum. The

family homes. -- this gum. The pattern is being repeated across

pattern is being repeated across pattern is being repeated across

North West, with plans to replace North West, with plans to replace

North West, with plans to replace North West, with plans to replace

this one in Rochdale with up to this one in Rochdale with up to

this one in Rochdale with up to fortune I new houses. Ian's

fortune I new houses. Ian's fortune I new houses. Ian's

challenge is to get access to challenge is to get access to

challenge is to get access to buildings like this before they are

buildings like this before they are buildings like this before they are

buildings like this before they are gone forever. We do a survey of

gone forever. We do a survey of gone forever. We do a survey of

what the condition is like. The what the condition is like. The

what the condition is like. The what the condition is like. The

next part is getting into the ones next part is getting into the ones

next part is getting into the ones next part is getting into the ones

we really want to get into. That is we really want to get into. That is

we really want to get into. That is a challenge. A decade ago, the

a challenge. A decade ago, the property boom meant developers

property boom meant developers property boom meant developers

could not get enough industrial could not get enough industrial

could not get enough industrial buildings like bees to turn into

buildings like bees to turn into buildings like bees to turn into

offices and trendy apartments but offices and trendy apartments but

offices and trendy apartments but when boom turned to bust

when boom turned to bust redeveloping them became more

redeveloping them became more redeveloping them became more

difficult. From 2008 onwards more difficult. From 2008 onwards more

difficult. From 2008 onwards more or less everything has changed. The

or less everything has changed. The or less everything has changed. The

market has changed and developers market has changed and developers

market has changed and developers market has changed and developers

are now having to, or half for the are now having to, or half for the

are now having to, or half for the are now having to, or half for the

last four or five years, had to last four or five years, had to

last four or five years, had to stop thinking differently about how

stop thinking differently about how stop thinking differently about how

they get finance, the schemes they they get finance, the schemes they

they get finance, the schemes they can bring forward. In the Ancoats

can bring forward. In the Ancoats can bring forward. In the Ancoats

area of Manchester, proposals to area of Manchester, proposals to

area of Manchester, proposals to convert Stubbs Mill into loft

convert Stubbs Mill into loft convert Stubbs Mill into loft

apartments has not materialised and apartments has not materialised and

apartments has not materialised and the building is derelict. Next door

the building is derelict. Next door the building is derelict. Next door

campaigners want to say the listed campaigners want to say the listed

campaigners want to say the listed Ancoats Dispensary after the local

Ancoats Dispensary after the local council granted permission to

council granted permission to council granted permission to

demolish it last year. The problem demolish it last year. The problem

demolish it last year. The problem demolish it last year. The problem

demolish it last year. The problem with a meal is it is a rigid form.

with a meal is it is a rigid form. with a meal is it is a rigid form.

with a meal is it is a rigid form. -- with a gum. -- the problem with

-- with a gum. -- the problem with -- with a gum. -- the problem with

-- with a gum. -- the problem with a textile mill is it is a rigid

a textile mill is it is a rigid a textile mill is it is a rigid

form. 200 years ago, textile mills form. 200 years ago, textile mills

form. 200 years ago, textile mills helped make Lancashire rich. There

helped make Lancashire rich. There helped make Lancashire rich. There

were 2,500 in the county, employing were 2,500 in the county, employing

were 2,500 in the county, employing almost half a million people, but

almost half a million people, but new technology and overseas

new technology and overseas competition eventually make them

competition eventually make them redundant. This panoramic photos

redundant. This panoramic photos redundant. This panoramic photos

showed how cotton mills once showed how cotton mills once

showed how cotton mills once dominated the skyline of Oldham.

dominated the skyline of Oldham. dominated the skyline of Oldham.

dominated the skyline of Oldham. Ian has come to the town's art

Ian has come to the town's art Ian has come to the town's art

Ian has come to the town's art gallery to take a closer look.

gallery to take a closer look. gallery to take a closer look.

gallery to take a closer look. photograph was taken in 1876 by a

photograph was taken in 1876 by a photograph was taken in 1876 by a

man called Squire Knott. What he man called Squire Knott. What he

man called Squire Knott. What he has done, not really realising it,

has done, not really realising it, has done, not really realising it,

has done, not really realising it, is captured Oldham at a time of

is captured Oldham at a time of great boom. This really

great boom. This really characterises all caricatures

characterises all caricatures characterises all caricatures

Lancashire. The loss of those Lancashire. The loss of those

Lancashire. The loss of those buildings really takes that unique

buildings really takes that unique buildings really takes that unique

character away from the town. character away from the town.

character away from the town. character away from the town.

company has been to do study and company has been to do study and

company has been to do study and company has been to do study and

document for the first time all the document for the first time all the

historic textile mills in historic textile mills in

historic textile mills in Lancashire. Good afternoon, it is

Lancashire. Good afternoon, it is Lancashire. Good afternoon, it is

Lancashire. Good afternoon, it is Ian Miller. It is a huge task. The

Ian Miller. It is a huge task. The Ian Miller. It is a huge task. The

first part of the study identified first part of the study identified

first part of the study identified hundreds of buildings. Ian's now

hundreds of buildings. Ian's now hundreds of buildings. Ian's now

speaking to mill owners in person speaking to mill owners in person

speaking to mill owners in person so he can make detailed inspections

so he can make detailed inspections so he can make detailed inspections

so he can make detailed inspections of 50 of the most important. Some

of 50 of the most important. Some of 50 of the most important. Some

of 50 of the most important. Some people are not very keen for us to

people are not very keen for us to people are not very keen for us to

go in, which you might understand, go in, which you might understand,

go in, which you might understand, go in, which you might understand,

but it does not make things easy but it does not make things easy

but it does not make things easy but it does not make things easy

sometimes. A few days later Ian has sometimes. A few days later Ian has

sometimes. A few days later Ian has had some success. He has been

had some success. He has been had some success. He has been

had some success. He has been granted access to a complex in beat

granted access to a complex in beat granted access to a complex in beat

Weavers' Triangle in Burnley. Ian's Weavers' Triangle in Burnley. Ian's

Weavers' Triangle in Burnley. Ian's colleague Chris is undertaking a

colleague Chris is undertaking a colleague Chris is undertaking a

survey of the Sandygate weaving survey of the Sandygate weaving

survey of the Sandygate weaving shed, a building dating from the

shed, a building dating from the shed, a building dating from the

shed, a building dating from the 1850s, which is now without a roof.

1850s, which is now without a roof. 1850s, which is now without a roof.

1850s, which is now without a roof. Why thing we want to find out is

Why thing we want to find out is Why thing we want to find out is

Why thing we want to find out is how big this building is. When you

how big this building is. When you how big this building is. When you

how big this building is. When you pass by a weaving shed, one looks

pass by a weaving shed, one looks pass by a weaving shed, one looks

pass by a weaving shed, one looks like another, but there are a lot

like another, but there are a lot like another, but there are a lot

of interesting details. We take a of interesting details. We take a

of interesting details. We take a load of photographs and work out

load of photographs and work out load of photographs and work out

what the shed looked like. Next what the shed looked like. Next

what the shed looked like. Next what the shed looked like. Next

door there is a building that shows door there is a building that shows

door there is a building that shows door there is a building that shows

door there is a building that shows what can be do -- and done with a

what can be do -- and done with a what can be do -- and done with a

little care to turn a crumbling little care to turn a crumbling

little care to turn a crumbling textile mill into something new.

textile mill into something new. textile mill into something new.

textile mill into something new. Victorian mill is on its way to

Victorian mill is on its way to Victorian mill is on its way to

becoming a new technical college. becoming a new technical college.

becoming a new technical college. becoming a new technical college.

It was 18 months since we were last It was 18 months since we were last

It was 18 months since we were last It was 18 months since we were last

in this building and it was a wreck. in this building and it was a wreck.

in this building and it was a wreck. in this building and it was a wreck.

It is really nice to see it It is really nice to see it

retaining some historic features, retaining some historic features,

retaining some historic features, particularly the hoist over there.

particularly the hoist over there. particularly the hoist over there.

Architecture really, the rooms are Architecture really, the rooms are

Architecture really, the rooms are designed so that hoists can be

designed so that hoists can be accommodated without being a

accommodated without being a accommodated without being a

hindrance. They will be there to hindrance. They will be there to

hindrance. They will be there to view forever, hopefully. A few days

view forever, hopefully. A few days view forever, hopefully. A few days

view forever, hopefully. A few days later, Ian has come to Queen Street

later, Ian has come to Queen Street later, Ian has come to Queen Street

later, Ian has come to Queen Street Mill to meet his colleague who is

Mill to meet his colleague who is Mill to meet his colleague who is

Mill to meet his colleague who is using a balloon to get a view bar

using a balloon to get a view bar using a balloon to get a view bar

of the architecture. With the wind of the architecture. With the wind

of the architecture. With the wind of the architecture. With the wind

picking up, they decide to opt for picking up, they decide to opt for

picking up, they decide to opt for a more reliable method of

a more reliable method of a more reliable method of

observation. I have asked Jayne be observation. I have asked Jayne be

observation. I have asked Jayne be observation. I have asked Jayne be

to take a whole load of photographs to take a whole load of photographs

to take a whole load of photographs to take a whole load of photographs

ball -- from all the angles around ball -- from all the angles around

ball -- from all the angles around ball -- from all the angles around

the building. He puts that into a the building. He puts that into a

the building. He puts that into a the building. He puts that into a

software package and we get 83 D software package and we get 83 D

software package and we get 83 D accurate model of the building. I'm

accurate model of the building. I'm accurate model of the building. I'm

accurate model of the building. I'm not entirely sure how this works! -

not entirely sure how this works! - not entirely sure how this works! -

not entirely sure how this works! - - a 3D accurate model. We have

- a 3D accurate model. We have - a 3D accurate model. We have

created a whole mass of photographs. created a whole mass of photographs.

created a whole mass of photographs. From the ground, aerial shot, from

From the ground, aerial shot, from From the ground, aerial shot, from

all different angles. And like all different angles. And like

all different angles. And like magic, it creates this three-

magic, it creates this three- magic, it creates this three-

dimensional model. It is a dimensional model. It is a

dimensional model. It is a wonderful tool. He also has

wonderful tool. He also has wonderful tool. He also has

important news about Queen Street important news about Queen Street

important news about Queen Street Mill. An application to list the

Mill. An application to list the Mill. An application to list the

historic weaving shed is now being historic weaving shed is now being

considered by English Heritage. considered by English Heritage.

considered by English Heritage. considered by English Heritage.

Once a building is designated as a Once a building is designated as a

listed building, any alterations listed building, any alterations

listed building, any alterations listed building, any alterations

require consent and will have to be require consent and will have to be

require consent and will have to be looked at carefully. It is

looked at carefully. It is immensely important and remarkably,

immensely important and remarkably, immensely important and remarkably,

immensely important and remarkably, to my mind, it does not actually

to my mind, it does not actually to my mind, it does not actually

have listed building resignation at have listed building resignation at

have listed building resignation at have listed building resignation at

the moment. It is a small victory the moment. It is a small victory

the moment. It is a small victory the moment. It is a small victory

and one that makes you an even more and one that makes you an even more

and one that makes you an even more determined to carry on with his

determined to carry on with his determined to carry on with his

determined to carry on with his work. I am hoping our survey will

work. I am hoping our survey will work. I am hoping our survey will

work. I am hoping our survey will really help to raise the profile so

really help to raise the profile so really help to raise the profile so

that people can appreciate textile that people can appreciate textile

that people can appreciate textile that people can appreciate textile

that people can appreciate textile mills a bit more. At the end of the

mills a bit more. At the end of the mills a bit more. At the end of the

day, if it leads to the day, if it leads to the

day, if it leads to the preservation of all the re-use of

preservation of all the re-use of preservation of all the re-use of

the buildings I will be delighted. the buildings I will be delighted.

the buildings I will be delighted. -- preservation or re-use. That is

-- preservation or re-use. That is -- preservation or re-use. That is

-- preservation or re-use. That is it from me for this series. You can

it from me for this series. You can it from me for this series. You can

it from me for this series. You can catch Inside Out again on the BBC

catch Inside Out again on the BBC catch Inside Out again on the BBC