Browse content similar to 22/10/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
Hello from Bristol, where we have exclusive new evidence of abuse at | :00:09. | :00:11. | |
the Winterbourne View private hospital. Tonight, we talk to the | :00:11. | :00:14. | |
family of a patient punched in the face years before Panorama went | :00:14. | :00:24. | |
:00:24. | :00:27. | ||
undercover. No wonder he years... No wonder he struggles now and | :00:27. | :00:37. | |
:00:37. | :00:49. | ||
still has nightmares about it. Also tonight: Axing the 2nd | :00:49. | :00:51. | |
Battalion Royal Welsh. We ask: Was this a politically-motivated | :00:51. | :01:01. | |
:01:01. | :01:04. | ||
decision? Was I surprised? No. Was i it upset? Yes. I'm Alastair McKee, | :01:04. | :01:14. | |
:01:14. | :01:19. | ||
Hello and welcome to the show. Today, sentencing has begun of the | :01:19. | :01:29. | |
:01:29. | :01:29. | ||
11 former members of staff here at Winterbourne View. They abused and | :01:29. | :01:32. | |
neglected patients in their care, and were only stopped after a BBC | :01:32. | :01:34. | |
Panorama investigation. Now, an Inside Out West exclusive can | :01:34. | :01:37. | |
reveal the level of abuse here years before Panorama went | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
undercover, and expose one nurse still free to work after punching a | :01:40. | :01:50. | |
:01:50. | :01:54. | ||
Winterbourne View, as you've never seen it before, empty, stripped | :01:54. | :02:01. | |
down and bare as the new owners purge the building. But this is | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
what it will always be remembered for, the abuse of vulnerable adults | :02:04. | :02:12. | |
with severe learning difficulties exposed by the BBC. I've been | :02:12. | :02:20. | |
investigating what happened here before Panorama went in undercover: | :02:20. | :02:30. | |
:02:30. | :02:33. | ||
Is it understandable for someone to have their teeth knocked out? | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
all pleaded guilty to most charges and are being sentenced this week. | :02:36. | :02:41. | |
I've been given exclusive access to the scene of their crimes. Well, | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
this is the first time journalists have been allowed into film in | :02:44. | :02:54. | |
:02:54. | :02:55. | ||
Winterbourne View. For one family we've been talking to, what | :02:55. | :03:00. | |
happened behind these locked doors is something they'll never forget. | :03:00. | :03:05. | |
My investigation began earlier this year in Paris. I went to meet Tom | :03:05. | :03:10. | |
Pullar. His twin brother, Ben, is autistic and bipolar with severe | :03:10. | :03:15. | |
learning difficulties. Emotionally, he's more mature, but in terms of | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
his understanding of the world around him, it is equivalent to | :03:18. | :03:25. | |
about a five-year-old's. Ben was just 18 when he was sectioned at | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
Winterbourne View. He would spend just under a year there, from July | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
2009, and he would never be the same again. Did your brother's | :03:31. | :03:40. | |
behaviour change after he'd been to Winterbourne View? Yes, drastically. | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
He can get very upset very quickly about things that are not that | :03:43. | :03:50. | |
important. I've taken him to go to the toilet before and he's burst | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
out crying on me, demand to talk about Winterbourne View. This is | :03:54. | :04:00. | |
two years later. It still affects him today. Tom showed me | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
documentation about Winterbourne View. We've also seen his brother's | :04:03. | :04:09. | |
daily care notes. One entry in particular concerns the family. | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
Just weeks after he arrived, a support worker wrote that Ben "had | :04:12. | :04:20. | |
an accident with his teeth". The handwritten note is brief, saying | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
Ben tried to bite staff, but offers no insight into what happened. | :04:23. | :04:26. | |
Ben's family say they were given mixed messages and told at one | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
point that Ben had "bitten the floor". What they do know is how | :04:30. | :04:36. | |
bad this "accident" was. The first tooth was knocked out in the impact. | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
They tried to put it back in again. It fell out eventually three weeks | :04:39. | :04:45. | |
later. The second one dropped out after the trauma within two months. | :04:45. | :04:50. | |
It was a shock for everybody that he had his teeth missing. He looks | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
like a completely different person with his teeth missing. He looks | :04:53. | :05:01. | |
like a dangerous person. He looks like he can't look after himself | :05:01. | :05:03. | |
and that he's not being looked after. Essentially, that's what | :05:03. | :05:11. | |
happened. He wasn't looked after and I think he'll always have that | :05:11. | :05:14. | |
reminder there now because he's got two teeth missing. Not just a | :05:15. | :05:20. | |
reminder for him but for us as well. Back in the UK, I needed to find | :05:20. | :05:29. | |
out more about what had happened to knock Ben's teeth out. Bent was | :05:29. | :05:39. | |
:05:39. | :05:48. | ||
brought here by staff as an emergency patient. From this model, | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
what happened to Ben was that these two front teeth, the crowns, were | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
pushed back towards the pallet, and they were mobile, so we assumed | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
also that the bone holding the teeth in would have been fractured. | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
It would have been painful, it would have been difficult to bite | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
and it would have been sore for a couple of days. And what did your | :06:05. | :06:07. | |
staff think when they saw Ben's teeth? They though the injury he | :06:08. | :06:10. | |
sustained wasn't consistent with what they were being told. We'd | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
been told that he had allegedly bitten a carer and the injuries | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
were sustained from him biting that carer, whereas, because the teeth | :06:16. | :06:19. | |
were pushed back palatedly, towards the back of the mouth, it would me | :06:19. | :06:26. | |
more con.. You know, more consistent with receiving a blow to | :06:26. | :06:35. | |
the teeth. There's nothing in Ben's daily care notes about a punch or a | :06:35. | :06:45. | |
:06:45. | :07:12. | ||
blow. I heard some running and a shout. Janice Ellwood has 20 years' | :07:12. | :07:14. | |
experience looking after people with learning disabilities. | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
nurse involved seemed to be quite proud of the injury that he had and | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
the attention that he got from having to go to A&E. It was a | :07:22. | :07:27. | |
single, like a small stab wound. He said it was a tooth. But I didn't | :07:27. | :07:29. | |
see any additional tooth marks which you'd expect from a fixed | :07:29. | :07:36. | |
bite or bruising which you tend to get if the bite has latched on. At | :07:36. | :07:39. | |
the time, I just assumed it was a quick bite, in and out. The | :07:40. | :07:42. | |
incident was discussed the next day, the next morning, at handover, and | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
it was, "Yeah, bring it on." When talking about the physical | :07:47. | :07:49. | |
intervention that was needed for that particular incident, I was | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
very disappointed. Janice lasted a week. Disgusted with the attitude | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
of some staff, the levels of care and record-keeping at Winterbourne | :07:57. | :08:07. | |
:08:07. | :08:07. | ||
View, she left. It's not reasonable to attack a patient in any | :08:07. | :08:10. | |
circumstances. How would you deal with that incident if you were | :08:11. | :08:14. | |
being bitten? Once you've been bitten, there's nothing you can do | :08:14. | :08:24. | |
:08:24. | :08:27. | ||
about it. There's no point in retaliating. What about the police? | :08:27. | :08:37. | |
:08:37. | :08:56. | ||
Their view at the time was that it I'd say it was extremely | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
unprofessional. I think that care staff are supposed to care for | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
patients, not punch them. And then came news that Ben Pullar was not | :09:02. | :09:12. | |
:09:12. | :09:28. | ||
alone. This is the Serious Case Review. The company came under the | :09:28. | :09:35. | |
spotlight here. We learnt there were 40 safeguarding alerts about | :09:35. | :09:37. | |
patients there in three-and-a-half years to South Gloucestershire | :09:37. | :09:43. | |
Council. You sacked at to middle managers. Do you not feel you | :09:43. | :09:53. | |
:09:53. | :09:55. | ||
should resign? My priority has been, since a year ago, to ensure that we | :09:55. | :10:05. | |
:10:05. | :10:07. | ||
implement change. To make sure this can never happen again. And the | :10:07. | :10:10. | |
police had been contacted 29 times in just over three years. Nine | :10:10. | :10:19. | |
times when carers were suspected of attacking patients. Is it | :10:19. | :10:29. | |
:10:29. | :10:31. | ||
understandable for someone to have their teeth knocked out? Now, | :10:31. | :10:34. | |
looking back on that incident now and understanding the whole pattern | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
of what was happening at that home, at the residential hospital, it's | :10:37. | :10:39. | |
clearly not acceptable. At the time, the officer was dealing with | :10:39. | :10:42. | |
information - reliable information - that came from patients and | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
carers and that came from other experts in that field. And perhaps | :10:45. | :10:48. | |
they relied on that information too much. So it's not understandable, | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
really? It's, you know... It's a very difficult one, and to look | :10:51. | :10:54. | |
back now in hindsight and say... But we accept that there is | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
learning for us as an organisation and we will do things differently | :10:57. | :11:07. | |
:11:07. | :11:10. | ||
in the future. This is all too late for Ben and his family. I wanted to | :11:11. | :11:13. | |
meet Tom again to go through the Serious Case Review which had | :11:14. | :11:16. | |
revealed much more about Ben's time at Winterbourne View, including | :11:16. | :11:26. | |
:11:26. | :11:32. | ||
another assault. The second assault happened within days of Ben's but | :11:32. | :11:40. | |
teeth had been knocked out. Also, we know from looking at his care | :11:40. | :11:47. | |
record, that no mention was made of this assault. The only mention they | :11:47. | :11:57. | |
:11:57. | :12:00. | ||
made wasn't extract here. The only mention that they make was an | :12:00. | :12:04. | |
extract that I can read to you, just on that page, which is that he | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
was escorted by three male staff to his room, where he was encouraged | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
to have a shower. Soon after Ben took his clothes off in his room, | :12:10. | :12:13. | |
he suddenly stormed out of the room naked, raising his hands and | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
grinding his teeth towards three members of staff. They had to run | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
away from Ben towards the main entrance due to entrapment at the | :12:19. | :12:23. | |
door. Ben had to be tripped down on the floor, naked, to prevent Ben | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
attacking staff. He was immediately taken to his room where he had a | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
shower. He was heard crying from his room. Have you seen that | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
before? No. What do you think of it? How can you trip someone down | :12:33. | :12:38. | |
when they're running away from you and they're naked? No wonder he | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
struggles now and still has nightmares about it. I can see | :12:41. | :12:46. | |
that's upset you. Yeah, it has upset me because he's my twin, you | :12:46. | :12:54. | |
know. Panorama filmed what was described as "water-based | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
punishment" of the vulnerable adult, Simone. Was that what happened to | :12:57. | :13:02. | |
Ben? You don't shower somebody after tripping them down the floor | :13:02. | :13:08. | |
whilst they're naked, you know. And if he was heard crying from his | :13:08. | :13:16. | |
room, why didn't somebody go and comfort him? Two assaults on one | :13:16. | :13:22. | |
patient here in a week. And according to the Serious Case | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
Review, the second assault did not appear to have been investigated by | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
the police Public Protection Unit. Avon and Somerset say much has | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
changed. They point to new safeguarding units, better | :13:32. | :13:35. | |
knowledge of where vulnerable people are and better co-ordination | :13:35. | :13:37. | |
with partners. But Ben's family still want them to re-investigate | :13:37. | :13:46. | |
what happened. We've carried out an extensive investigation into | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
incidents at Winterbourne View and no stone has been left unturned and | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
we consulted with CPS and our partners in terms of action we | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
could take. In terms of our staff, yes, we've worked with staff in | :13:55. | :13:57. | |
developing their understanding of people with learning difficulties | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
and we've looked to train not just those staff but all staff in our | :14:01. | :14:11. | |
:14:11. | :14:19. | ||
organisation. Do you accept that? Err... Do I accept that? I'd like | :14:19. | :14:24. | |
to see it being implemented. I think it's the most important thing. | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
I'd like to make sure and ensure that nobody has to go through what | :14:27. | :14:30. | |
my brother had to go through and what the residents of Winterbourne | :14:30. | :14:39. | |
View had to go through ever again. And what about the nurse who | :14:39. | :14:49. | |
:14:49. | :15:01. | ||
punched Ben in the face? He can still work as a nurse. We decided | :15:01. | :15:11. | |
:15:11. | :15:23. | ||
to call him. Hello, Maxwell? Is that Maxwell? It is Matthew Hill, | :15:23. | :15:32. | |
BBC. I am ringing to ask why you hit Benn in the face in 2009. I am | :15:32. | :15:38. | |
recording this for broadcast purposes. The line has gone dead. | :15:38. | :15:48. | |
:15:48. | :15:49. | ||
He clearly does not want to speak to ask. Castle Beck told us they | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
new board and management have already reviewed, and will continue | :15:52. | :15:56. | |
to review, what happened here. They say if any other matters come to | :15:56. | :16:02. | |
light, immediate action would be taken. Ben's family say they were | :16:02. | :16:06. | |
kept in the dark about his treatment here and although 11 | :16:06. | :16:11. | |
people have admitted abusing patients, no one has ever | :16:11. | :16:21. | |
:16:21. | :16:32. | ||
apologised to them for what We will keep you in touch with | :16:32. | :16:37. | |
Ben's progress. The army is all was a talking point | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
and we are more than in Tidworth in Salisbury. 2nd Battalion Royal | :16:41. | :16:47. | |
Welsh is soon to be merged with 1st Battalion. But has the decision | :16:47. | :16:51. | |
been made for political reasons? To it worth on the edge of the | :16:51. | :16:56. | |
Salisbury Plain is home to 700 officers of the army mark. It is | :16:56. | :17:01. | |
one of those to be cut and at the Strategic Defence Review. It is | :17:01. | :17:07. | |
also home to the Highland Gunners, and right now and they're about to | :17:07. | :17:13. | |
come home from Afghanistan. How long have you waited for today | :17:13. | :17:23. | |
:17:23. | :17:26. | ||
to happen? Six or seven months. It has been heard. Very heart. | :17:26. | :17:31. | |
Emotional reunions are part and parcel of army life but there were | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
fears that a smaller army could mean more frequent to its pitting | :17:35. | :17:40. | |
more stress on family. These Highland Gunners have just come | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
back from Helmand Province. There they have been draining Afghani | :17:43. | :17:52. | |
soldiers and police. I think it is amazing. He is a Territorial Army | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
soldier as well so he has to return to his normal job. To get six | :17:56. | :18:01. | |
months of his life to represent the country in Afghanistan is just | :18:01. | :18:06. | |
fantastic. Well but Highland Gunners looks sleek as the regiment | :18:06. | :18:09. | |
no one can be sure that they will not be among the 20,000 soldiers | :18:09. | :18:15. | |
being cut. It is changing constantly around us but we have to | :18:15. | :18:22. | |
focus on each other. We're probably not the best people to answer that | :18:22. | :18:29. | |
question, but saying that, the army is in a state of flux. At the | :18:29. | :18:34. | |
moment we're just waiting to see where we will stand. | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
And at the changes announced by Philip Hammond in the summer, the | :18:38. | :18:46. | |
regular army will shrink from 102,080 1,000. It very old Tory or | :18:46. | :18:55. | |
army will have a greater role. -- the Territorial Army. This is the | :18:55. | :19:00. | |
former commander of the Desert Rats in the Gulf war. It is good | :19:00. | :19:04. | |
evidence to show that even the Republican Guard is not happy, if | :19:04. | :19:07. | |
that is the case then it is good news from us. | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
We have to make sure that when you reduce the and you do not send | :19:11. | :19:16. | |
people away more frequently. In the recent past we have gone for | :19:16. | :19:22. | |
everything. We're a close nation. We seem to like getting involved. | :19:22. | :19:27. | |
The second Gulf war and Afghanistan, we were five it took him all the | :19:27. | :19:33. | |
party many soldiers and bald. -- we were far too involved. We have to | :19:33. | :19:43. | |
be much more careful how old then we put our hands in. -- who often. | :19:43. | :19:48. | |
News that the 2nd Battalion Royal Welsh is to be marched with the 1st | :19:48. | :19:51. | |
Battalion merge with the 1st Battalion has shocked people back | :19:51. | :19:59. | |
home. Among those campaigning to reverse the decision is the mother | :19:59. | :20:04. | |
at all but 200 soldier to be held in Afghanistan, Private Richard | :20:04. | :20:11. | |
Hunt. I have a lot of pictures of Richard. | :20:11. | :20:16. | |
It is a poignant picture of beer, but as Richard, and this is the | :20:16. | :20:21. | |
other man that was killed six weeks later. It is one of the only | :20:21. | :20:27. | |
pictures of the two of them. Then we have his dresser. We have his | :20:27. | :20:32. | |
cross which has made out of spent cartridges but they do for every | :20:32. | :20:40. | |
boy but is killed. We have the room and the put onto it and it has sent | :20:40. | :20:48. | |
home to you. Along with his lovely picture of him. It is made in dock | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
but it would be can get their hands on. They said they were sorry it | :20:51. | :20:56. | |
was rough, I said I did not mind because it was made what low-fat | :20:56. | :21:06. | |
:21:06. | :21:11. | ||
and respect. It is one of their last pictures of him. -- we Lyle. | :21:11. | :21:14. | |
Despite her close personal link with the battalion, the first she | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
had all that hot was full up Harman's announcement on the | :21:18. | :21:25. | |
television. It annoyed me because he said they would much it | :21:25. | :21:30. | |
battalions. You can only March Italians win a place is going to go | :21:30. | :21:38. | |
to. The 1st Battalion is also fully manned. There is no way that they | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
could much the end because the and jobs for him to go to. And if they | :21:42. | :21:46. | |
went to battalions and regiments outside of Wales, it there are jobs | :21:46. | :21:53. | |
to go to there, which I doubt, then the only thing they will get its | :21:53. | :22:01. | |
sent away. Sent away from the army. You can see a building across their | :22:02. | :22:11. | |
:22:12. | :22:12. | ||
what the single window. There to the right hand side of that. It | :22:12. | :22:17. | |
makes me so angry that this is the way beer are being treated. It is | :22:17. | :22:22. | |
like they are saying the job was done and they do will stop it is | :22:22. | :22:30. | |
part of that the only society. from personal tragedy and | :22:30. | :22:35. | |
disillusionment, there are those that Green was in need to reduce | :22:35. | :22:45. | |
the size of the army particularly during the current economic climate. | :22:45. | :22:52. | |
A thing does make sense. The army has to come down to 80,000. It is | :22:52. | :23:00. | |
economic. We cannot afford to maintain it. But there is a | :23:01. | :23:05. | |
suggestion that he acts is falling in the wrong police. And that the | :23:05. | :23:12. | |
decision over which regiments cut is politically motivated. | :23:12. | :23:20. | |
Scot's massively over represent a. -- over represented. The Scottish | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
issue is to do with Scottish independence. David Cameron did not | :23:24. | :23:32. | |
want to get ammunition for Alex Salmond in his campaign. And to | :23:32. | :23:37. | |
placate Scottish nationalism is damaging the British Army. Like | :23:37. | :23:44. | |
most people I was upset at keeping Scotland in Act for obvious | :23:44. | :23:48. | |
political reasons when they are clearly having difficulty in | :23:48. | :23:58. | |
recruiting in Scotland. With Scotland, it needs to be treated | :23:58. | :24:02. | |
with kid gloves. We cannot have Scotland being independent they | :24:03. | :24:08. | |
just won't play with it. I feel very sorry for the Welsh battalions. | :24:08. | :24:15. | |
They have to be cut. It is for political reasons. Was a surprise, | :24:15. | :24:21. | |
no. Was I at the it, yes. It is particularly sad to see something | :24:21. | :24:27. | |
go on necessarily. Over the past few days there have been | :24:27. | :24:32. | |
demonstrations over army cuts. Including a march on Westminster | :24:32. | :24:37. | |
which one former colonel described as the first of its kind since the | :24:37. | :24:43. | |
days of Oliver Cromwell. Meanwhile at debate in Parliament got heated. | :24:43. | :24:47. | |
Have we create an affordable and balanced army capable of serious | :24:47. | :24:51. | |
military capability in the future, a small number of those units and | :24:51. | :24:55. | |
the Italians will have to be withdrawn from line. Have things | :24:55. | :25:01. | |
changed in the last 24 months? To such as its then it that we are at | :25:02. | :25:06. | |
wanting to reduce a sustainable and fighting regiments like the | :25:06. | :25:11. | |
Fusiliers to one battalion, like the 2nd Battalion Royal Welsh some | :25:11. | :25:16. | |
early and the Yorkshire Regiment also losing capable and sustainable | :25:16. | :25:22. | |
fighting battalions. It is a disgrace. If the cuts are not made | :25:22. | :25:27. | |
as is currently planned, what you do instead? One suggestion its | :25:27. | :25:36. | |
trees into a more controversial as a territory. But are Kurds. We're | :25:36. | :25:45. | |
keeping bigger crowds but we have struggled to recruit. We get them | :25:45. | :25:54. | |
because they were cheaper. Prior to reforms the cost the army a lot | :25:54. | :26:01. | |
less. Now they cost more. But there reason why I'd we wanted to invest | :26:01. | :26:08. | |
in an was that they have retired and appalled. Now what the laws | :26:08. | :26:14. | |
over we become left after retiring lot of them stay here. So there is | :26:14. | :26:19. | |
a lost revenue stream. I think they could have been cut alongside the | :26:19. | :26:26. | |
Scottish regiments. Around Salisbury Plain they have enjoyed | :26:26. | :26:31. | |
the economic benefits of being close to Tidworth. But a pain of | :26:31. | :26:36. | |
losing that army at be eased by the return of 20,000 troops from | :26:36. | :26:42. | |
Germany needing new pieces. what is a winner at as far as I can | :26:42. | :26:52. | |
:26:52. | :26:53. | ||
see. There is a super garrison that might it built Bea. The departure | :26:53. | :26:58. | |
in that will be in a large were will be around to it war. -- a | :26:58. | :27:08. | |
:27:08. | :27:09. | ||
large bore. Around her. They will be the run-up permanent basis. It | :27:09. | :27:19. | |
:27:19. | :27:19. | ||
is actually good news for Tidworth and for Salisbury Plain. Last year | :27:19. | :27:24. | |
at the 2nd Battalion Royal Welsh were welcomed home up to do with | :27:24. | :27:29. | |
from Afghanistan., but will it be home for much longer? Britain is | :27:29. | :27:36. | |
deciding which wars it will face in the future. I could not see myself | :27:36. | :27:46. | |
in another battalion. It is amazing. They're cracking bunch of people. | :27:46. | :27:50. | |
Seven with the 2nd Battalion Royal Welsh is a great thing. Coming back | :27:50. | :27:57. | |
to get there is one of the greatest feeling Samantha and her up. We're | :27:57. | :28:07. | |
:28:07. | :28:14. | ||
That is about it for tonight. If you would like to keep in touch you | :28:14. | :28:24. | |
:28:24. | :28:27. | ||
can find its own quota or you can Next week, there promised prizes | :28:27. | :28:32. | |
that never materialise. When the right to ask for help, their | :28:32. | :28:38. | |
letters are thrown away unread. This is how many tablets I have to | :28:38. | :28:42. |