Flooding Debate Inside Out West

The Somerset Levels are still underwater after a deluge that

started in December. The floods have sparked a domestic and political

crisis. Welcome. Good evening, and welcome to the

canalside centre. We meet as part of the West country struggles `fter the

worst floods in years. The water is now going down, but many of the

people here tonight are out of their homes after the Somerset Levels were

hit by a series of storms that went on for two months. Not far from

here, livelihoods have been lost and property destroyed, and there is a

feeling amongst some that a lot of it could have been avoided, which

has made people angry. Before we debate, let's hear a few personal

stories. James and Becky, you were affected by this. The beginning of

the year, we experienced a surge on the floodwater started to rhse into

my parent `` my parents house and I had to evacuate my farm. Wh`t about

your livestock? All of the livestock had to be removed and taken to other

farms. A lot of them have bden sold. I have lost potential earnings

for the last `` next three or four months. It makes me angry bdcause it

could have been avoided. If they had just listened to the local people.

Alastair, you live on an island What has the experience been like

for you is to mark it has bden extraordinary. `` like for xou? It

is extraordinary. There is ` community on the island with 20

children who go to school. Xou cannot just get into your c`r and

take the children to school. You have to think about it. You have to

dress up in wet weather gear, get your boots and trousers and. `` on.

It is really difficult. Food, all of the bits and pieces. It all takes a

huge amount of time. Most pdople can cope with hardship for a short

period of time, but this has been going on for nine weeks. Yes. We

have had it before, once evdry nine or ten years, but nine weeks is a

huge amount of time and somdthing obviously went badly wrong. Some

initial thoughts of their al a but let's meet our panel. James, a

farmer who has become the f`ce of the floods at times. His falily have

been working the land here for 50 years. The acting Chief Executive of

Somerset County Council. Sud Brown from the RSPCA. They managed 20 0

acres on the levels. And Richard Creswell from the Environment

Agency, which has come in for a lot of criticism, much of it thdy claim

it is unfair. We also have among our audidnce the

police, local politicians and many volunteers who have come to the

rescue. No`one from DEFRA, `s it is called, was able to come tonight. UN

home can get involved and Twitter, using this hash tag. `` you at home.

Let's take our first question from counsellor Justine Baker. Why did it

take so long as local authorities to get involved? Why do you thhnk? I do

not think people realised how bad it was. I think people thought it would

go away a lot quicker. I am part of a community group that stepped up to

the mark to fill the gap. The County Council is working extremelx well,

but it took a lot of time to get to that. Let's bring in the panel. You

must have had a well rehearsed plan sitting on the shelf for an event

like this. It was a question of blowing the dust off it and getting

to work. Is that what happened? I believe we were there from very

early on, from before Christmas We looked at our duty, what we head to

do, which was to keep peopld safe, and we worked with our soci`l care

teams to keep people safe from day one. We clearly needed to move on

from there, and there was that need for communities of, how can we help?

Knowing into the new year wd were helping in any way we could. ``

gull`wing. We provided boats and supportive communities. That was

towards the end of January. There was a airy bad weather forecast

coming forward and work `` very bad weather forecast coming forward Did

you feel isolated or a in the early days of this emergency? We get to

start off with. Enough was dnough. 40 square miles of Somerset was

flooded in conjunction with other areas. We needed to declare a major

incident. What happened then? We wanted the response that we got We

wanted others to recognise what was going on in Somerset, and everything

that has happened we hoped would happen to bring the eyes of the

world on what was happening. We wanted to bring government to bear

in terms of recognizing... H was pleased, not pleased to declare a

major incident, but we wantdd governments to recognise wh`t was

happening in Somerset. What sort of help that you get? Is it addquate?

Last year the floods went under the radar. We were flooded for six

months and it went under thd radar. Thanks to such more for acttally

declaring it a major incident. We head the resources in place to help

us. At the start we were left in the dark. No`one was helping and we head

to evacuate. We started evacuating on a Wednesday afternoon, Wddnesday

morning we asked for assist`nce and none was coming forward. Evdrything

took so long we did not havd time. Are you sure you did not have help?

Somerset County Council sent some people out, they came out at nine

o'clock and said, do not worry, the Army is coming, we are going to put

pumps in place and sandbags. By lunchtime, nothing had turndd up. I

rang my friend who is a contractor and he started a gang, and H said,

do not worry, the Army are coming. By four o'clock we made the decision

that we had to evacuate. Who do you hold responsible for not helping you

out? There did not seem to be a joint approach from the start. The

police are here. You are in charge of... I chair the strategic

coordinating group. We coordinate with the blue light responsds, with

the local authorities, and ht is to coordinate... Did that seem to work?

In what way did it not work? It clearly not work `` it clearly did

not work. Local people were coming together and doing their tasks, but

it needed to be run from thd bottom up. The lady behind you. I have got

to congratulate the police hn what they did for me. I have got 12

German Shepherd dogs. I havd seven policemen turned up and let my dogs

out, and one of them admittdd he was terrified of German shepherds. I am

getting emotional. He built a bridge to get my Shetland pony out. The

police were leading marvelots, but nobody else turned up. Nobody. We

were cut off on December five. In our village, the police takd took a

long time to Ternopil stop there was no security, very little difficulty

and all of the warning we h`d was an announcement from a helicopter

telling us to be. Very little personal contact, cooperate in and

very badly organised. Yelling from a helicopter is not much use. We had

worked considerably harder for them and had done a number of warning and

informing exercises. We had neighbourhood teams that were out

constantly, knocking on doors, dropping letters, using sochal

media. Did anyone know who was in charge? Was it David Cameron, you,

the Council, the Environment Agency? Who was it? Because the major

incident was then declare, that is when the process sets up. As a

consequence, it takes a small amount of time to get the right pl`yers

around the table. How many times did you visit from the council `nd see

what was on? We had people visiting on a very regular basis. Did you pop

down? Islet in the area so H have been more or less constantlx in the

levels since the beginning. `` eyelids in the area. The cotncil was

involved in troubles, did you take your eye off the ball? Never. No, we

did not. My leadership has been there since the beginning so there

has been no ambiguity. That other issue did not feature. Rich`rd from

the moment agency, have you been satisfied with the way that your

people have responded Mr Mike `` the moment agency? We had three months

which has amounted to the wdttest winter for 250 years. Through that

three months, I think there were probably only two or three days

where it did not claim, which gives major problems for the Somerset

Levels. It has resulted in the massive flooded we have seen. ``

where it did not rain. I must say how sorry and sympathetic Hxam for

everybody and I have seen some of it first`hand. I think right from the

start, we set up our incident rooms and our job is to do the warning and

informing and get everybody geared up to what is happening. But of

course, what happened was it rained and then get training. I thhnk some

of the stories is because it has kept raining for three months

without stop. `` then it kept raining. Could you have brotght the

pumps in earlier? One of thd problems with pumps is that we have

one main river out of the p`tch All the water that is pumped nedds to go

out through that route. We cannot turn on the pumps until there is

capacity in the river. Right late on in the incident, we have bedn

working to get the flood relief channel working so that we can take

water from the top. That cale in much later, when the incident got to

the sort of portions of it has no. James, is it realistic the sort of

help that you were expecting? The police are here to catch crhminals

and do crimper vigilant. Thdy are not used to moving cattle. H just

want to respond to Richard. `` they do crime prevention. It started

flooding after an inch and ` half of water. It is not acceptable. This

was in December, before all the other room. That was fool for the

extra rain. We were calling for a week before Christmas, eight days

before Christmas, for Northloor pumping station to put the

excellently pumps on and I was told they were not needed. I havd lived

there all my life and my father before and there did not sedm to be

anybody listening to the locals We know, you know, just by going out on

the moors and farming the l`nd just how high the water was getthng. It

went way above winter level. Let's speak to somebody who came here as a

volunteer. Welcome. What struck you? What struck me? As a member of the

international relief team, H work around the world in major

disasters. To be honest, if you ask me as an observer what went on here,

in our own country, compared to third World countries, it w`s an

absolute failure. Because I was here for a week and really, lots of these

volunteers were getting stuck in and there was no, absolutely no presence

from any official agencies. Let s get this clear... We were lhfting

everything ourselves. I did not see any presence. In other parts of the

world, it is completely different. They are not so rich. In thhs

country, we have everything and yet we have nothing. We are worse at

responding to an emergency hnvolving 100 flooded houses than thex are in

some developing countries. Obviously the community coming togethdr as

they have done is just a relarkable response. But who should be lifting

the sandbags? Is that actually down to ours, the public, or shotld we

look to the authorities? It is a mixed picture and that is exactly

why I asked and the marines came in when needed because the sittation

was getting worse. More comlunities were being overwhelmed. We knew that

we needed more people on thd ground and that is why we effectivdly

changed national policy to get the marines in so that they could help

with whatever we needed to be done. You came here, did you not, for a

day to help? I have used it? On the 8th of February, I think thd worst

flooding at the time. I camd for one day and stayed a week. Therd was

much to do. The marines... H only saw the marines towards the last few

days of my stay for a week here What all of the sandbagging was

being done by the locals, bx the volunteers. `` while all of the

sandbagging was being done, I think if there had been better qu`rter

nation, we would have turned up earlier, on the seventh, whhch is a

Friday, I heard somebody from Somerset really upset, wherd are the

international agencies? We responded. I rang every single

agency, every single agency, "we can help, what do you need? How is good

they all turned away. `` wh`t do you need? " We are very glad yot are

here. You have a question also. How will the Government and its

associated agencies build trust with the local communities build trust

with Somerset after such a monumental failure? You are sticking

to your view that it was a failure? Is that a general consensus?

CHEERING From the Environment Agency? How are

you going to rebuild trust? Colon I think one of the things, as people

have said, sitting down and talking. We did a lot of that after 2012 and

indeed... It did not change much. I disagree. In 2012, we sat down with

the internal drainage boards and local people and said that we need

to do something to try to alleviate the problem. We looked at three

major initiatives that would have helped and one of them was hndeed

the eight kilometre dredge that many people will know about. We

immediately, over 12 months ago rebuilding trust. Your imagd has

been tarnished perhaps down here. What are you going to do? Wd will

talk to people but at the moment, the priority is to get the water off

the land, get the people back into their houses. You know, with the

best will in the world, it hs not the right time to be trying to

engage with the locals on what is going to be the future becatse the

future for people, I hope, will be getting people back first and then

talking. We can do the rest in parallel. Let's talk to Tessa, one

of the local MPs. How badly his trust and the relationship with the

authorities been affected? H think it is pretty serious, actually. I

would say that rather than sitting down and talking it should be

sitting down and listening. Actually, local people have a very

clear idea of how some of this may be sorted out. I do not blale your

Environment Agency staff because they have worked very hard where

they have been placed in a very impossible situation by an

emergency. But this was a crisis. We saw this happening last year. Not

very much happened. The loc`l farmers and landowners have been

saying dredge, dredge, dredge. I recovered one area, not the river.

What we need to do, perhaps, is something I have been asking for 18

months and that is saying that the Environment Agency is there to look

after wildlife and flora and fauna, but actually my view is let's do not

just buttercups. We need to actually make sure that we may be agdncy

reflect the value of productive land. It's got to be like that. We

are going to be talking abott dredging a lot but what's t`lk about

the response. This Mac let's talk about `` but let's talk abott the

response. Being a volunteer and helping first`hand, no disrdspect

but will lead to gold and shlver command, I am sure many will agree,

it was way slow. People needed help and they did it now. It was too

slow. One last response to `ll that? I think with the quarter nation

response, and I do accept some of the comments to see that thdy did

not see it `` coordination response, there were very many good pdople

working 24/7. Anyway, we were a victim are on success in th`t the

flag and the community resilience and the can`do attitude acttally

created an additional demand and for others to come in... So if xou had

fallen to pieces, more help would have arrived? From our point of

view, with some of the needs, the concentration of effort wherever was

demanded at the time, with other coordinated groups, needed to

respond in a coordinated wax. Everybody had such a device set of

needs. Let's pause for a molent I see will come back to the atdience

but let's go back onto the levels to remind ourselves of how this drama

unfolded. There is nothing I can do... This is

my life. What really did catse the worst floods in living memory? In

spite of the frantic efforts to pump it out, the water is still there.

Families in temporary homes. I've got my crate! Who knows for how

long. In this village on thd Somerset Levels, people are still

having to reach their homes by boat. Now, if you want the clearest

possible indication of just how much the extent of this flooding to

people by surprise, the County Council actually hired this boat for

two weeks. They thought, as did most people, that the floodwaters would

have gone by then. But as I speak, it is now nine weeks since the

village was marooned. When xou visit, you realise that with every

waterlogged day that passes, the anger gets deeper.

What do you think next year? Do you think we will be sure standhng on

the edge of a flooded village again next year? I think there will be a

riot if we are doing that. There is jolly near a riot right now. We are

very close to the edge. We have had enough. When the clock back and

there was a taste of what w`s to come. James took me on a totr of his

farm near Rowland. 560 acres. We have got 790 underwater. `` 960

acres. Back then there was `nger that there had been a lack of river

maintenance, dredging, caushng the floods. The chairman of the

Environment Agency, Lord Smhth, felt the full force of anger when he

visited the Somerset Levels towards the end of 2012. And when I pressed

him on that word, dredging, this is what he said. What we need to do is

find out here where the best places to dredge are going to be and then

we will get on and do it and that will be as soon as possible. When? I

would certainly be very dis`ppointed if we were not seen some improvement

happening in the course of the next six months. And yet 12 months on,

that pledge failed to materhalise. Our main story tonight, the West

under water. Part of Somersdt remain cut off and the bad weather is not

over yet. Every road into mtch only a flooded... I was hiring a boat

again to reach the stranded village. Farmer James was fast beginning to

realise that the floods of 2012 were nothing compared to what he was

facing now. In the end, he had to evacuate his farm to save hhs

animals from drowning. And one night in February, what had

already become a major incident came an emergency, as the villagd was

evacuated, homes that had ndver flooded before, overwhelmed and just

a few hours. I now, the worst floods in living memory were attracting

national attention and VIP visitors, from royalty to

politicians. Some were more welcome than others. In the end, thd Prime

Minister himself stepped in to promise what the people of Somerset

have been demanding for years. More dredging needs to be done and it

will be done. As I said on Friday, we need to learn lessons from the

past him and that means mord dredging will take place. `` from

the past, and that means. Pdople want solutions, not answers. This

man, now retired was once the flood defence manager with the Environment

Agency in Somerset. My concern is that what we `re doing

here, in doing the dredging but `` because the Prime Minister says so,

is giving people hope. Thesd people have been devastated and thdy need

to plan their future and it would be fair to tell them the truth, not

that dredging will solve evdrything. So, politicians of the highdst level

have reacted to the ongoing flooding crisis here in Somerset, but the

question is, how they reactdd to genuinely fix the problem, or are

they merely telling the flood victims of Somerset what thdy want

to hear? Oh they make good on their pledges? And even if they do, will

that prevent flooding like this from happening again. `` will thdy make

good. Let's talk about that word, dredging.

We have already talked about it Our next question comes from a lan who

runs a business. Hello. Why did the Environment Agency not dredge the

rivers when the cost of it pales in significance in comparison to the

cost of cleaning it up? We were constantly told there was no budget

and the cost of the clean`up was absolutely enormous by comp`rison.

We have completely lost our business. We have had to move our

business to another factory that we have had to rent. We owned the

property on the Somerset Levels and we have had to set up again. Why

have you not stretched? Over the past 25 years, successive

governments have moved investment towards using the money to protect

as many people and propertids as possible. That inevitably h`s meant

that sparsely populated are`s have not benefited of `` as much. 1.

million houses have been protected over this three month. . Huge

sympathy for the 120 or 150 that have been flooded, but it does not

stack up against benefit cases for other parts of the country. So if

you spend ?1 and flood prevdntion you have to sound `` save ?8 in

damages? We wanted to do thd dredge after 2012, and that was worked out

with the IDB, but the amount of money that the... ?160,000 was put

forward for that. The Countx Council put in ?300,000. We then nedded to

raise the rest of the money. Is it that you wanted to dredge btt you

could not afford it, or you did not really want to dredge? After 20 2,

we employed consultants to look at what the right options were, and

trudging with most definitely have delayed the onset of flooding in

2013`14. It would have meant the flooding was not as extensive. So it

was a mistake not to do it? It is a shame, and that is a real

understatement, that we did not get flooding `` funding through 201 so

we could get on with that. So you wanted to dredge but you cotld not

afford it? If that is the w`y you want to put it. Is that the way you

want to put it? Well, in terms of competing demands in the cotntry, we

have to follow that formula. Chris Parker is here. Where are you? Just

give us the academic view of the dredging. Dredging can work in some

places at certain times. Thd way it works is you increase the

cross`sectional area, and there you `` thereby you increase the volume

of water that can fit through the channel. It has been less stccessful

on the levels for three different reasons. The first reason is the

slope of the levels. Even though you are increasing the cross`sectional

area, the amount of water that can lead is reduced. Let's just cut to

the Chase. Does that mean that they should not be dredged? It mdans that

money spent on dredging and Somerset Levels could be better spent

elsewhere. `` and the Somerset Levels. You are saying it is not

worth the money. That is not so If you look at the results dond in the

1960s, you will find that the river is now running at less than 60% of

its capacity at that time. The riverbed has come up I nearly three

metres. `` by nearly three letres. I was in a meeting with Lord Smith a

few weeks ago when he came to visit, and he guaranteed us that

they were going to dredge two different rivers. Why did hd say

that if I was no point in doing it? Let's bring in Sue Armstrong Brown

from the RSPCA `` RS DB. Yot are not a fan of dredging, are you? It can

be used to speed up water going down the river. It would not havd stopped

these floods. It would have helped the water get out quicker if it had

been done. We use it sometiles as a conservation tool am a but broadly,

it is an incredible `` tool, but broadly, it is hard to get right.

This crisis has left so manx people in awful situations am a but there

has been an oversimplificathon of the solutions. `` awful sittations,

but there has been an oversimplification of the solutions.

Apparently the government rtns the flood defence agency, which is

marvelous, but is not reallx true. We do not have that amount of power.

We do campaign against dredging too much. Rivers are a place whdre water

flows from land to sea, and that is the critical function we ard talking

about at the moment. But also, there are habitats for wildlife, things

that most of the people herd in the audience loves.

The gentleman with the fluorescent jacket. You say about the money not

being well spent, but how mtch is it with the costing the governlent and

the taxpayer to higher in the palms and engineers to run them, the

authorities, all the people working on this, and how much is thd clear

up going to cost? What about the wider point about the environment,

and that we share the environment with these creatures?

These are man`made channels in Somerset. I would agree with the

lady from the RSPB. There are not `` there are places where you would not

want to dredge because it could increase the flow into it the dam

stream regions. The function of them is drainage and not environlent We

need to get the balance right between the environment and the

dredging, but they are therd to perform a function of drain`ge and

to pass the water to the lowland. Do people accept that just to say

dredge is just an oversimplification? It is the

obvious thing to do. We worked out the cost of dredging over a 20 year

period, and it is far cheapdr than the cost of pumping over th`t same

period. This was over three of the Moore's. We did not know at that

time that the flood of this winter were going to be nearly as high in

fact the cost of all this ptmping his ruinous compared to the cost of

dredging. I want to bring in James one more time. Your family have been

on these lands for 150 years. You think there should be more dredging.

It will run down and run all over the house and caused more d`mage. If

you clear the cutter, the w`ter will go into the drains. If you have a

channel that is silted up, ht is 50% more water going down the channel.

What is your land like? How high is the water now? ) is `` right now it

is about 12 foot deep. It h`s gone down for foot in the last shx days.

What would it have been likd had they dredged? It would not have been

flooded. We have had a huge amount of rain but it would not have

thought about it might have come `` it would not have come into the

house. Following on from thd house the `` comment about man`made, the

Somerset Levels is a man`made environment, and therefore requires

men of management, and my qtestion is, should the conference ``

conservationists not seek ott natural help with tats elsewhere in

the country? `` habitats. That is absolutely right. This is a unique

place that has evolved over centuries of men, and would need

think about it, they have evolved along with it. One of the local MPs

claimed that ?31 million had been spent to bring a bird sancttary but

they couldn't find any monex to dredge. I would like to shoot a few

sacred cows if I could. It was ?20 million, not ?31 million.

Let me finish, please. Second, that was something to protect hotses in

the village from the coastal surges that we had seen. That is p`rt of

the solution for the future. You cannot pour enough can't trdat to

protect all of our houses from the storm surges. `` enough concrete.

The statistics show that we are very likely to see that our flood risk

nationally is going to go up. ? 0 million extra is going to h`ve to be

spent year on year I'll stop what really matters is thinking of the

proactive management solutions were the future. `` spent year on year.

Do not forget, you can get hnvolved and footer. Richard from thd

Environment Agency. `` on Twitter. Were you being bullied not to

dredge? Absolutely not. Our main interest is to protect

people. Are you as one agency.. You are you looking after? Birds or

people? We are looking after people and property.

In the pecking order. Peopld come first and property, second. Then

there has to be a balance, because we do not want to live in a concrete

jungle. This is about getting a balance. People in Somerset live in

a very special place and it is the people there that make it a special

place because of the way thdy farm, and a lot of the money that comes in

through those subsidies to lake sure that there are little bits of

fields, that is money that comes into the economy and is part of the

farming economy and the levdls. If we cannot farm, the birds would not

be there. At the moment, the situation is one

where we cannot farm. I do not care how much money you pump in, unless

the ground is farmed, the bhrds will not be there. That is true, so the

nature that lives in Somersdt Levels depends on management. If you took

the farmers out to the song, you would not have the wildlife that

makes this such a unique and special place. `` outs to the swamp. We need

to manage the levels to a place where they... The people who work

the land and that this area extremely well, and the academics

and the people in Whitehall who know the subject from a different point

of view, who is right? Who should be believe as taxpayers

will protect the environment? We should believe the farmers. A couple

more comments. There is a fundamental question which has not

been answered. We back in the 1 00 and 1700 is the Dutch enginders

designed a system for water management. The question th`t has to

be asked is whether it is fht for Palm has today given climathc

changes and whatever the thdn minister says he cannot change the

jets scream. `` isn't fit for purpose. If it is, it `` is it an

eight kilometre dredge or is there something else? That is somdthing we

are going to come onto it. Some people are still out of thehr homes

and who knows for how long. Like many families, Dee and her daughter

had to leave their house and will be in rented accommodation for many

months. The helicopter came right over our

house. They started shouting to evacuate. So we all worked together

in my family, got all worked together in my family, got `ll of

the stuff in the attic. We lived in what we stayed in so I was stood in

pyjamas. That is always it. `` all iLife in. It had a very tangible

feel of utter panic. Nobody knew what to say. Nobody knew how to

advise. Everybody had a different opinion about it. As a result, the

villagers were left, scarpered, lost and frightened. `` left scarpered. I

felt like I was in, like, Thtanic. But without a boat! And I w`s

just... The whole village w`s going down in water. I did actually go

into school with my welly boots on because I did not have my school

shoes. We did a 30 hour danceable and in my wellies. It was vdry

painful. `` I did a 30 hour dance contest. We endeavour to make sure

that she is kept stable bec`use she has to function as a nine`ydar`old.

We do not want her to feel like a thick but I want all my children to

eventually come back in ten years' time and say, " do you remelber when

we were flooded?!" And see ht as the positive. `` feel like a victim I

want to go back to my house because it feels like this is a holhday home

and I am staying here for, like five or two days. But it is not It

is actually a year and sometimes I really want to go back to mx house.

If I was offered the money to buy my house outright to go, as much as I

love my village and my neighbours, I probably would. As much as H would

hate to leave everybody behhnd those I cannot do this again. I c`nnot! I

cannot do this again. I cannot see my kids go through it. I cannot see

myself and my partner go through it. No. That would be it.

And Dee is here now. What a remarkable daughter you havd got!

Chatty to say the least. How are things now? Still hard. Not as hard

as the people that rely on the labels for a living but yes, it is

hard. `` relying on the land for a living. It is hard to keep lorale

and when you think that you have got 12 months minimum to keep going

yes. Can you see the end in sight? No. We have been told 12 months but

living with five children, day to day, it is hard. So for somdbody to

say that they are sorry and we are going to take your house and

everything you considered normal and sort yourself out for 12 months and

then we will think about giving it back, I cannot see the light at the

end of the tunnel. Do you own your house or rented question we are

mortgage. How much is your house worth no question zero, as luch as

everybody else in this room. We have lost everything. The water hs well

received. The council will bring the mobs and buckets and will do the

best that they can to mop up the job that sadly was left to lead in the

first place. `` the mops and buckets. It will be ours sat here

working out the cost. My qudstion is that raising five small children, if

I was, as I said on the BT, if I was to have to go through this `gain

next year, we would fail. As a family, we would fill. My qtestion

is, if you cannot guarantee that this water will not come ag`in and

they are not going to flood an entire village... This is not the

Thames where it was an overspill, you flooded an entire community If

you cannot guarantee that, who is going to buy my house? Wherd is my

children's inheritance? At the minute, it is gone. Tessa, hf the

people here cannot be guaranteed a drive home, should the Government

step in and say that they whll buy the house? No. I think therd is an

alternative to stop I think there are plans... I gather there is a

plan being put together at the moment that was meant to be

completed this week. `` I think there is an alternative. Thdre are

things that could have been done to alleviate the problem. Frankly, you

know, in my area, the land hs all man managed. It was man cre`ted She

wants to know if anybody will Biros. We need to... `` if anybody will

buy. The lady said herself house is nothing. How many people ard in the

position that their houses worth nothing? Six people. James behind

me. There are little pots of money that I am trying to work out whether

they are one, two or three or they are being sent to multiple counties.

There are various things put together to make it better for

people but actually we need to take action. We talked about it last year

and here we are. There is no guarantee it is not going to happen

at some point. We have had ht happened three times in six years.

We have to make sure that somebody is control, the plan is ready and we

do something. Will those people who do have properties at our flooded

will be put their hands up `nd keep them up if you would know, hf the

Government said they would give you a check to buy your house at market

value and you can leave, how many people would leave? Keep yotr hands

up if you would. One, two, three, four, five. We have five people who

would call it a day. What would it mean for you to leave your home It

is something we have lived hn this house for 28 years. This is our

heritage. We have got so much involvement and it would me`n

leaving our friends and famhly. You would do it? If there was going to

be going through this, we would do it if there was no guaranted and it

would be year, year out it happened last year, what I am appalldd by,

there have been successive government reports produced in 002,

the flooding summit last ye`r and national politicians and local

politicians did not listen `nd see where the resources where to sort

out the problem. Richard, is it sensible to try to save A`ldvels,

given that we are told the climate is changing, levels are rishng? ``

to save the land. A lot of properties are at or near sda level.

Should people say they will go and live summer elves and we should hand

is over to nature? I think this is a mixed economy. `` somewhere else. I

think everybody knows that some dredging of the type we are talking

about will help it. We're also talking about a number of other

things, like relief channel. In the long term, should the `` should the

Levels be abandoned? If you abandon them, you will lose two or three

things. You will lose a lot of communities, the wildlife that is

there, that is there to `` why it is designated as a special place. This

is something that the community and agencies can work together on. I

think it would be wrong to say that we can prevent flooding bec`use I do

not think we can. I think it could need substantially reduced. Full

like it or lump it? We are one of the last hours before Bridgwater and

really, if we had had two more inches of rain, another eight inches

or more, Bridgwater, and we have seen by all the work of makhng the

Dutch pumps in and emergenches, they are next. There is no other alleged

to fill up. CHEERING

You cannot use the moors as a storage pen to have them flooded all

the time. Is that what you are doing? Of

course they are. Certainly the moors her historical and these lands which

have been flooded in the wax that they are for hundreds of ye`rs. Not

at this level. But we have to remember that we have just had the

wettest winter for 250 years. One of the things we will have to consider

is what do we do? Do we protect up to a 250 euros event or do we say

100 year event? We have got to work out what is economic. `` 250 year

event. There was some properties that flood every year. Have you

deliberately allowed areas to flood to protect Bridgwater? The spillway

is... The spillways are where they have been and we do not open these

then the water goes over thdm. The reason there are spillways hs

because we try to control when it goes. If we did not have a spillway,

it would go over it. It is not an unreasonable thing to do thhs to

protect Bridgwater. It is there to protect the whole of the levels and

murders. If you let it come out everywhere, it would randomly flood

all sorts of different parts of the levels and murders. `` moors. Sugar

levels be abandoned? They should not be abandoned but we do need to be

much more creative about wh`t the future is going to be. Clim`te

change... All of the predictions of thing that we are going to see more

of this sort of event. This year, it was a crisis and unique. An amazing

response from the community and the huge volunteer effort. Would that be

there if it happened every xear I do not think so. I think we need to

have a plan and that is to not only include making sure the

infrastructure is suitable `nd can move the water around appropriately

and get it but it also needs to look at the wider area. This is `

national problem. 50% of thd foil, about half of the soil and the

catchment, are managed so that their companion compacted. A response

would be nice for somebody who has not spoken before. I am the animal

quart meter for Flag. We have got most of the animals moved, re`homed,

flight and lots of donations coming in. 20 years ago, my partner was

employed to dredge the banks. The silt was put on top of the banks,

the banks where rotating, replanted, problem solved. Hn the

last four days, I have had hn three dead barn owls. I run my own rescue

centre. Now, everybody wants to protect the British wildlifd. These

barn owls are dying because the farmland is under water, thdre is no

crops, there is no mice, thdre is no food.

Are you under the impression, do you believe, that the labels can be

saved? Exactly as Jane said. If you're guttering is blocked, you

unblock it. The water will run. Years ago, the rivers were dredged,

it was put on the banks which made the banks higher. It wasn't so much

housing with all of the watdr coming from other areas, Taunton, Xeovil, .

. Lots of houses planned and where is the water going to go? Pdople

have to live summer. Control the water so it does not flow any more

than when it was Greenfield. What other options are there? Thd 20 year

plan for is due out later this week and well we do not know what will be

in it, lots of suggestions `re being made, including raising the roads,

becoming more resilient and even a barrage on the River. What hs the

best way to progress from hdre? What should we do? Is there anything that

can stop these people going through what they have had to go through? As

I have said before, it can be substantially reduced. But not

eliminated? See Iraq not lilited. It will not be limited, does everybody

get that and accepted? `` it will not be eliminated. We expect it to

be flooded in the winter but we do not expect it to come so quhck and

last for long. If they had maintained the waterways and all of

the waterways they are meant to maintain to the proper standard we

would not have half the problem we have at the moment. Was this

neglect? From everybody? Is this neglect? I think we would nded to

take the matter of managing the levels a lot more seriously. I think

this is doable. I do not thhnk we should give up on Ted Mack `t all.

What joy to see in the future? We have already said we would like to

see the rivers dredged quitd quickly. `` we should not ghve up on

the Levels at all. Why not plan that we keep pumping as plan B? To stop

the tide coming in and lockhng the system and many more things beyond.

We have done this for centuries Let's go to the landscape Institute.

What is your view on the future I am not a Somerset person so I

feel... You are allowed in Bridgwater! I am a visitor from

Gloucestershire and we cert`inly experienced the floods in 2007. We

had a lot of concern that there seemed to be some knee jerk

responses to problems that were happening not just here but

elsewhere in the country. I think we are very concerned to feel that

there should be a much more detail and Confederate response about

catchment management, about what we do and how we planned throughout

catchment. But also about how we look at our towns and cities, as the

gentleman mentioned. `` much more detailed and considered response.

How we look at making our chties and towns more resilient. There is a

whole range of measures that need to be put in place. All right. I think

the main problem is that thd agencies are not communicathng with

the real people like James. There is a real big gap in real life. I think

we are crossing about it here but what I hear from people in

Boroughbridge, there is not any people from the community on these

consulting boards. Any other points? We have not heard from you. The

volunteers were there and wdre hoping. The teams are sitting here

in front of you, young men who have been out there at the beginning or

stop there as a lot more contingency and things have been worked on since

then. But I would just like to say a personal thank you for workhng with

all of these wonderful teams of people who have just come from all

over the place to actually be there on the front line and help out. Who

here has had to take help from these volunteers? I have already spoken

and said they were marvellots. But you had to go and ask for assistance

question I I did not but thdy have saved me a lot of time. Givd

yourself a round of applausd. How long will the community response be

going before you wind it down? Some houses today were straight by 1 ,

but it will take weeks and weeks. `` stripped by teams. Where is this

help coming from? The Counchl and the government? It is coming from

volunteers and businesses and individuals that are donating from

across the country. Essenti`lly it is the hard work of voluntedrs at

this helping out, and if yot want to take part, there has been a disaster

on our doorstep, but we havd seen the very best people come ott to

help. Very good. Thank you. And that is

eight from this special BBC debate. We have had a passionate and

sometimes heated discussion. Dredging is scheduled to st`rt soon.

We await the 20 year plan. Our thanks to the panel on to otr

audience, and to you at homd for watching tonight. Let's hopd for a