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For her latest novel, Different Class, Joanne Harris | :00:00. | :00:10. | |
is back in school, St Oswald's Grammar School, | :00:11. | :00:11. | |
And although she says that she thinks of it as comic, | :00:12. | :00:17. | |
From one of our most prolific and well read authors, | :00:18. | :00:21. | |
Chocolat was of course an international bestseller | :00:22. | :00:23. | |
The classrooms and corridors are the setting for a story | :00:24. | :00:27. | |
sometimes hate, deception and some violence, | :00:28. | :00:32. | |
and an exploration of some of the most troubling relationships | :00:33. | :00:35. | |
between teachers and pupils, and the havoc that they | :00:36. | :00:39. | |
Joanne, despite what happens to some of the pupils | :00:40. | :01:00. | |
and teachers in this story, it strikes me that | :01:01. | :01:03. | |
and they're wonderful observations of community. | :01:04. | :01:15. | |
The observation here is, as I said at the beginning, pretty dark. | :01:16. | :01:18. | |
It's funny, it's touching, but it goes to some very dark places, | :01:19. | :01:21. | |
both in terms of the staff and their charges. | :01:22. | :01:25. | |
I've found that schools are a perpetual stage for tragedy, | :01:26. | :01:30. | |
So many things can happen, it's such an unpredictable environment. | :01:31. | :01:37. | |
And that unpredictability isn't just because of the setting, | :01:38. | :01:42. | |
it's because of the age of those involved. | :01:43. | :01:43. | |
We're talking about adolescents, people going through | :01:44. | :01:45. | |
all kinds of crises, some imagined, some real. | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
And relationships with teachers, which are inevitably | :01:49. | :01:50. | |
It's a very intense stage, adolescence. | :01:51. | :01:58. | |
things for the first time and they are so powerful that they | :01:59. | :02:05. | |
I found it a very interesting thing to be part of, | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
but it's daunting as well, because later I realised | :02:10. | :02:12. | |
that as a teacher, you can influence somebody's life | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
and if they remember something as unfair, | :02:18. | :02:20. | |
they can resent it in a way an adult would not. | :02:21. | :02:23. | |
I won't say what they are, but I think it's safe to say you're | :02:24. | :02:29. | |
become much more familiar to us - allegations of sexual impropriety | :02:30. | :02:33. | |
and terrible emotional trauma between staff and pupils - | :02:34. | :02:43. | |
did you know that's what you were getting into when you started? | :02:44. | :02:46. | |
What happened was that I started off with the germ of an idea | :02:47. | :02:50. | |
Operation Yewtree started to unfold, and I found that there | :02:51. | :02:53. | |
was an uncomfortable crossover between what I was writing | :02:54. | :02:55. | |
about and what was happening in the world, and it became much | :02:56. | :02:58. | |
darker and more topical than I thought it would. | :02:59. | :03:01. | |
You touch on the whole question in this book | :03:02. | :03:03. | |
rather hysterical ones, leading to, in some cases, a witchhunt | :03:04. | :03:10. | |
atmosphere, or territory where there are false accusations | :03:11. | :03:12. | |
and great damage done as a consequence. | :03:13. | :03:17. | |
It's something that clearly fascinates you, | :03:18. | :03:19. | |
the unfairness that's lurking under the surface. | :03:20. | :03:22. | |
And also the past and how the past affects the present, | :03:23. | :03:28. | |
and how memory is not inherently a reliable tool, particularly | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
when dealing with experiences of trauma, how memory can be | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
affected by all kinds of things that are happening in the present day, | :03:39. | :03:41. | |
and how memory can therefore sometimes be both | :03:42. | :03:43. | |
The principal character, Straightly, has been a teacher | :03:44. | :03:49. | |
so this has happened to him again and again. | :03:50. | :03:55. | |
There's that interesting sense of having seen generations | :03:56. | :03:58. | |
of pupils coming through, in his case, to learn | :03:59. | :04:00. | |
We're not same person, but I might have grown | :04:01. | :04:07. | |
at the school where I taught for long enough. | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
He's aware that he is affecting young lives, and he has | :04:13. | :04:24. | |
I also like the fact that he is a bit of a subversive. | :04:25. | :04:31. | |
He has various prejudices he's | :04:32. | :04:33. | |
He's a bit bad with technology, he likes the odd sneaky fag | :04:34. | :04:44. | |
One of the interesting things about the way | :04:45. | :04:47. | |
you construct the narrative here is that | :04:48. | :04:49. | |
you have an older man talking, but you have youngsters as well, | :04:50. | :04:52. | |
so they're inhabiting completely different milieu | :04:53. | :04:55. | |
although they're in the same place, in the school. | :04:56. | :04:58. | |
That's right, but I think I had the benefit of being in that | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
environment for long enough to pick up a lot of voices, to remember | :05:03. | :05:05. | |
the way teenage boys talked, the way older members of staff | :05:06. | :05:08. | |
talked, and so I've borrowed from colleagues, from pupils | :05:09. | :05:13. | |
who are now ex-pupils and who watch the whole process with joy | :05:14. | :05:16. | |
You're a great Twitter user, I gather. | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
Do you find old pupils coming on and saying, | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
Many boys come back and say they read this. | :05:27. | :05:37. | |
Very often, they turn up to readings, and of | :05:38. | :05:40. | |
I'm writing about them, which isn't quite true, but there | :05:41. | :05:43. | |
And although it's a dark story, you're clearly having fun. | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
You're an immensely successful author, very widely read. | :05:48. | :05:50. | |
Are you irritated when people say "You're the Chocolat woman"? | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
I know you're not irritated by its success, but does it | :05:55. | :05:57. | |
I'm very grateful for the response to Chocolat and the fact | :05:58. | :06:05. | |
I love it, too, and I'm still writing about those characters. | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
What I find irksome, if anything, is the assumption that | :06:10. | :06:12. | |
Most of my readers don't make that assumption, | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
go in any kind of direction and have done, and I'm lucky in that sense. | :06:18. | :06:23. | |
You take the authorial responsibility | :06:24. | :06:25. | |
Recently, you talked about not going to one | :06:26. | :06:33. | |
because they were expecting all kinds of things, | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
exclusive contracts and a puny fee, and you said, hang on, | :06:38. | :06:40. | |
authors deserve to be treated in a better way. | :06:41. | :06:42. | |
It's not just about me wanting money or special treatment. | :06:43. | :06:45. | |
I would like people to see writing as a job, a profession, | :06:46. | :06:51. | |
This is particularly important for young authors | :06:52. | :07:00. | |
in getting to festivals because of what it costs. | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
They don't make much money writing, contrary to public opinion. | :07:06. | :07:07. | |
The average salary of a professional author is ?11,000 a year, | :07:08. | :07:12. | |
Not many of us get to write for a living and make | :07:13. | :07:17. | |
And you're an author who conforms, I think, to one of | :07:18. | :07:26. | |
Do you disappear and enter a different world when you're there? | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
Shed World is a specific space, and I think it's | :07:31. | :07:33. | |
for an author to have a work space, particularly someone like me, | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
It's difficult to manage your time and get into the psychological | :07:38. | :07:44. | |
headspace of writing, so I think it's important to create | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
a place where you work and nothing else happens, | :07:49. | :07:50. | |
When I started off, I had no desk, so I had two objects I would put | :07:51. | :07:57. | |
in front of my laptop when I wanted to write, and that created my work | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
Sometimes, I'm working on two at once, almost always, in fact. | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
I have books that I write on sunny days and ones that | :08:07. | :08:09. | |
I write on dark days, of which Different Class was one. | :08:10. | :08:12. | |
It is, although there are glimpses of sunshine as well. | :08:13. | :08:20. | |
Some parts of the UK had a decent day with some winter sunshine and | :08:21. | :08:41. | |
you had to go to the hills of | :08:42. | :08:43. |