12/07/2011 Newsnight Scotland


12/07/2011

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to see how the scandal has changed the way the country sees the

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British press. Tonight on Newsnight Scotland:

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More on the allegations by Gordon Brown and others in the News

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International scandal. Is there now a danger that public revulsion

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could turn into an attack on press freedom?

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And house prices are flat, mortgage lending is down and would-be

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sellers won't lower there prices. Has the housing market, to all

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intents and purposes, ground to a halt?

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Good evening. As you may just have seen, the News International

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hacking story is not losing momentum. It's clear the House of

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Commons will unite in an unprecedented way tomorrow to try

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to derail the Murdoch bid to control BskyB, and the share prices

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indicate a considerable loss of confidence in the Murdoch magic

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touch. Shortly, I will be speaking to two former newspaper editors,

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but first, Laura Bicker has been assessing the impact of Gordon

:00:51.:01:01.
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Brown's intervention. They have never been easy

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bedfellows. News International have been cosy with Blair, but with

:01:07.:01:17.
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Brown, this was the response. They withdrew the Sun newspaper support.

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But Gordon Brown said the real body blow came in 2006. This normally

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private politician found his family thrust into the spotlight just as

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they were dealing with the diagnosis of cystic fibrosis. Their

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anguish became front-page news. The former prime minister says Labour

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has devastated. In tears. Your son is going to be broadcast across the

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media. We are thinking about a were family, but there is nothing a you

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can do about it when you are in the public eye. Gordon Brown did not

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sever ties with the Murdochs. This afternoon and News International

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denied they had hacked his son's But Gordon Brown is convinced he

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was targeted by News International. I had my bank accounts broken into.

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I had my lawyer's files effectively blagged. My tax return went missing

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at one point. Medical records had been broken into. I don't know how

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all this happened, but I do know one thing - that in two of these

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instances there is absolute proof that News International was

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responsible for hiring people to get this information. I also know

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that the people that they work with are criminals. If that is the case,

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the Scottish government said there should be an inquiry north of the

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border. If there has been a breach of the lot in Scotland, it should

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be investigated by the Scottish police and people will be brought

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to book by the Scottish police. Tonight, Rupert Murdoch and Rebekah

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Brooks had been summoned to appear before eight Select Committee -- a

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select committee. When the record of my time as Prime Minister is

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looked at, it will show that we stood up to News International and

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we refuse to support their commercial ambitions when we

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thought they were against the public interest. Hacking or

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blurring of journalistic boundaries, with nearly 4,000 victims, it is

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certain there are more revelations to come.

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I'm joined now from Edinburgh by Harry Reid, former editor of the

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Herald, and from London by Tim Luckhurst, former editor of the

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Scotsman and now Professor of Journalism at Kent University. What

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do you make of this extraordinary situation that MPs will almost

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unanimously vote against the Murdochs? They are looking for some

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kind of revenge. I think politicians, not all of them, but a

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lot of them had been toadying up to Murdoch and other newspaper

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proprietors over the years and I think they privately resent this.

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They are probably feeling a bit guilty. That is the psychology of

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the situation. What do you think, Tim? Even if they condemn the

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Murdoch bid by a claim, it doesn't technically derail it, does it?

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doesn't, but I think it is derailed and I will be surprised if News

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Corporation buys the remaining 61 % of the shares in BSkyB. The British

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press has behaved badly in the past, but the history of self regulation

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has survived. There is a lot of animosity towards the press. I

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think MPs are feeling animosity over the whole expenses scandal.

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Did you think that? I think it is right. I don't think this is the

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moment for change. I think the self regulation is clearly not working

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and is not fit for purpose anymore. There needs to be a new system, but

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whatever it is, I don't think the current emotional climate is

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conducive to a sensible look at it. I think we need a bit of time to

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calm down. The whole nation seems to be in a frenzy at the moment

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over this. You say that sounds a bit weak, but people will look at

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this and say, journalists at News International and elsewhere have

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behaved appallingly. Now we have journalists complaining they may be

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regulated properly. What I am saying is no-one is objecting to

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being a regulated properly. What I am saying that the new system must

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not be done in this current climate of frenzy. We have to wait a bit.

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That is what I meant by being a week. It is sensible to wait. I

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don't think you can say overnight eight new system can be produced

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with this great political anger. -- overnight a new system. There does

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need to be a new system, but there is an irony at the moment.

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Newspapers create panic, but now they are the victim of it. Yes, we

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need a new system that is not dominated by a couple of large

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newspaper groups. We need a system in which serving editors are not

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sitting in judgment over their peers. I think that is right and I

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am a member of a campaign that has asked for an independent judicial

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inquiry into what has happened. There needs to be independent

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regulation and it cannot be controlled by the Government.

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Britain has shown to the world an example of free press holding a

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free government to account. We have a raucous and sometimes unpleasant

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press, but we have a good press. If we surrender self regulation, I

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wonder how many other governments will wonder what to do. We need to

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set an example. Harry is right. We need some calm and recognition that

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politicians are not always acting in the public interest. At the

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moment they are acting in a self interested fashion. Many people

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will look at this and say that the hacks are protesting too much. No-

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one is actually proposing statutory legislation to control the press,

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even though there is a general atmosphere in the air that

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something will have to be put in place to replace the PCC. The fact

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there are no specific proposals is part of the process I am talking

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about. The second inquiry that Cameron is setting up obviously

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will be looking at this particular area. Can I just say that the press

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is in the dock at the moment, but so is the police. We must not

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What would you a new forum of regulation of the newspapers look

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like? I think, Tim set it out quite well. He has thought it about it

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more thoroughly than I vfplt my position is simply, I do accept, I

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have argued in past for the self- regulation by the PCC. I think the

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PCC, to use the thwart that people have been using all over the place,

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"toothless" we need more effective form of regulation. The problem is

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sprest specifying that. If you ask journalist what is they want, this

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tough new regulatory regime to look like, you bet your bottom dollar it

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will come down to something set up by newspapers who end up regulating

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themselves to all intent and purposes? We are good at creating

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public bodies which are general stkpwhren winly independent of

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government, the BBC is one of them. It isn't beyond the imagination of

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academics or lawyers to come up with a co-operative organisation, a

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mutual organisation, which binds newspapers together in contract

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with each other, in agreement to a set of rules for which they can be

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penalised if they breach them. That requires intelligence. I think it

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requires hard work. I think it requires thought and pause. Let's

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be absolutely candid here. We shouldn't just trust the

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politicians. They have been far too close to News International and

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several other newspaper groups as well. I don't dislike Gordon Brown,

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I recognise he had an extraordinarily hard time. I twiet

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see what News International is guilty of doing to him and his

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family. I know. This a British Prime Minister, any British Prime

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Minister, ought to have had the courage to stand up to Rupert

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Murdoch and to say, no, on very many occasions. Neither Gordon

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Brown, nor Tony Blair, or the current Prime Minister have the

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courage to do that. I think that is not something we should overlook

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quite so easily as the political classes would like us to. Do you

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agree about that about Gordon Brown? I think there is truth in

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that. Very few British Prime Ministers, for many decades, have

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actually stood up to press baron, not just Rupert Murdoch. There has

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been a whole history of very senior politicians, including Prime

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Ministers, toing up to press barons. Two of the supposedly weaker Prime

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Ministers, Stanley Baldwin and Sir John Major who have actually both

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been quite tough, certainly in the the sense they have not groveleed

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to people like Mr Murdoch as, I'm afraid, more recent Prime Ministers

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have. Harry Reid mentioned the police there. One of the alarming

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things a lot of people feel about this, we had the MPs' expenses

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scandal, you know, the banks are completely discredited, now the

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newspapers are completely discredited now the police are

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completely discredited. newspapers aren't completely

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discredited. The News of the World have acted atrociously. It was a

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newspaper which exposed this wrong- doing, not politicians. It was the

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Guardian. The Guardian has done a fantastic job on this. It proved,

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as well as having the worse press in the world, Britain has the best.

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OK, we will take Tim's point about the newspapers, there is a crisis

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of the institutions of Britain here, isn't there? Very much so. I mean,

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Britain is a country in decline economically we all know that. I'm

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afraid it's also in decline in terms of its public institutions,

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which is very worrying. I think, in the long-term, the failure of the

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police in this matter is every bit as serious as the failure of the

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press. We will have to leave it there. Thank you very much. Now,

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economists expected a slight recovery in house prices last month,

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but the Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyers has said today

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house prices from April to June have continued to fall. For those

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in the market to buy or sell their homes, historically, June has been

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the time to do it. Today's report suggests that this year the summer

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holidays for the housing market have come early. June is usually a

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busy time for the housing market. This year was different. The number

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of sales have dipped. There were fewer buyer enquiries than any

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other month this year. There are a lot of homes on the market, which

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the Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyers says puts buyers in a

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strong negotiating position. The Royal Institute of Chartered

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Surveyers says almost three quarters of those surveyed in

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Scotland reported house prices didn't move in June. The more

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houses are coming on the market here than across the UK as a whole.

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The Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyers said that homes in good

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condition are selling more easily than property requiring work. So, a

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quarter of sellers are spending money improving their property

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before putting it up for sale. I'm joined now by Keith Denholm of the

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Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors. I'm curious as to

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whether we are in this for the long-term. Whether we are seeing a

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change? It looks like, at the moment, to all intents and purposes,

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there is no housing market. A few houses change hands. Buyers happen

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to meet sellers who want them. For the vast majority nothing is

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happening? I don't think so. Chartered surveyers are reporting

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that the market is in in certain parts of the country are moving, in

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other parts of the country it's a tough market. The property in best

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condition and best presented - Council of Mortgage Lenders says

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that the number of mortgages issued in Scotland in the first quarter of

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this year was down 20%, a fifth on 2010. In 2010, it was artificially

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depressed because, in late 2009, people bought houses to take

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advantage of the stamp duty cut. So, 20% down this year, on an already

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extremely depressed figure? That's the figures that, obviously, I

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can't comment further on. What I would say, that we are reporting

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that some conditions in the market are acceptable. Other conditions

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are not. There are times when we have to - What are people doing?

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People who - only five years ago, perhaps, couples in their late 20's,

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early 30's thinking of having a child would, five years ago, have

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been getting a mortgage and buying a house. What are they doing now?

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lot of people are staying in the accommodation they are in. Looking

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to extend the property. They are happy where they are. In some

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situations people have to sit there and ride it out. If they are

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renting, they have to stay renting? That is the case. Many schemes have

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been brought out, through government assistance, to assist

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people to move on onto the property ladder. There are, you know better

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than I do, lots of house that is have been for sale now pretty much

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since the financial crash started, aren't there? All those people?

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There are properties there. Some people have to look at what price

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they have that property on for and readjust their price to reflect the

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change in market conditions. There may be many properties out there

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being marketed just now that could benefit from some improvement.

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know the statistic is hard it get at. What percentage of people

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selling houses have to sell a house, because, let's say, they live in

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Glasgow, they have to live in London, they don't have enough

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money to keep two houses and have to sell. People in that position

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would lose r their prices because they have no choice. The

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implication that a lot of people aren't able to meet the prices they

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are libel to get, means they don't have to sell, they are doing it

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from choice? They can sell it on 10% loss, when they consider buying

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another property there is a potential gain they can get. There

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the price difference between what they are selling their house for

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and the property they are purchase something not as big as per

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received received - The implication of what you are saying, about

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people not lowering the prices they are asking, actually, the majority

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of the house that is are sold are not because people absolutely have

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to sell them. In that sense it doesn't really matter, does it?

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Some people do have that belief that they don't have to sell their

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property. I think a lot of people do want to sell their property and

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have been advised to reduce a price to more a relistic level. Right.

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They are not doing that, are they? In some cases they are not doing

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that. That's correct. We have to leave it there. The front pages:

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leave it there. The front pages: first The Sun. What really

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happening between The Sun and the XPM. The Scotsman: MPs to unite

:19:09.:19:15.

behind anti-Murdoch vote. The Independent. Party leaders unite

:19:16.:19:19.

against Murdoch. The Guardian, Parliament verses Murdoch. Same

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