13/10/2011 Newsnight Scotland

pension was achieved during my employment as a Member of

Outdated, negative and opposing new ideas for the sake of it. That is

the blunt reaction from Douglas Alexander. He will be talking about

why the Scottish election went so wrong.

Designs in Scotland but made by North Koreans. Has the Edinburgh

woollen Mill been pulling the wool over our eyes?

It is clear the Labour Party has decided if it's going to win

another General Election it had better secure its traditional

heartlands. Ed Miliband has appointed a brand new Shadow

Secretary of State for Scotland and a strategist has been doing some

truth and reconciliation with the Scottish audience. All that before

the Scottish party's search for a new leader get serious.

The sacking of an McCracken and the promotion of Margaret Curran as

leader as the Scottish party had been rumoured. Shadow ministers can

keep an eye on the country's interests across Westminster,

something the SNP cannot do. When the shadow Foreign Secretary,

Douglas Alexander spoke at Stirling University, his speech was focused

on his party's failure to put up much of a fight in the election

this year. They did better when he had a leading role in the campaign.

There is little in this document which could not be delivered right

now by a Scottish Secretary in the UK cabinet. Labour says it is

offering Scottish solutions to Scottish problems. Many head of UK

thinking. Douglas Alexander was the parent of Labour's successful

divorce campaign in 1999 and was reported to have said his job was

to engender fear. He said he was against using that tactic, but it

is not clear or his colleagues agree. Westminster's Labour-

dominated select committee launched an investigation this week into

what they call separation for Scotland. An opinion poll suggested

the SNP are leading Labour by seven points in Westminster voting

intentions. Douglas Alexander joins me now. One

of the phrases in your speech, you talked about the diminishing of the

emotive power of the key events and individuals who had previously

sustained Labour's story. You would presumably accept Alex Salmond is a

powerful individual in sustaining the SNP's story? You need someone

hefty to take him on? The person I had mind -- had in mind was

Margaret Thatcher. That was one of the points I was trying to make in

a lecture this evening. We need to move beyond the politics that

defines our purpose in relation to Scotland's past. We need politics

that speaks not only patriot is an but possibility. But, you need a

leader, someone who can take on Alex Salmond. At the moment you do

not have that? There will be a leadership contest. But you need

ideas. But you also need an individual? I wouldn't dispute that

and there is a processed -- process we would choose a leader. But it is

not a task for them alone to take on the work of rebuilding the

Scottish Labour Party. I was trying to start an overdue conversation

about the kind of changes we need to make. Are you telling me thing

any of the current candidates to be leader of the Scottish Labour party

have got the political stature and political ability to give Alex

Salmond a run for his money? Let's see what they have to say when the

contest gets under way. Ed Miliband does not know who they are. You

know them only too well? Yes, I am interested in what they have got to

save. One of the tests for all of them is to what extent they get the

scale of the challenge we face. We secured one in eight votes of the

Scottish people. On that is why there needs to be humility from

Labour and and all of the candidates. But we need to do more

than the humble. We need to reflect, listen and think our way through

the challenge rephrase. That is what I was tried to contribute to

this evening. There comes the obvious question, why don't you

stand for the leader? Renewal is the task for more than one

individual. Ultimately there will be a leader of the Scottish Labour

Party. I have never bought the idea the only way you can effectively

contribute to Scotland or the Labour Party is by standing in

Holyrood. I explain, I stood in the meadows with damp feet in 1992

arguing the case for devolution long before the devolution Act. We

should have representatives doing a job for Scotland, not just in

Holyrood but also in Westminster. Some people say the any place for

Scots is Holyrood, I disagree. have a realistic chance of becoming

shush shadow home secretary, and there is no problem with that

ambition. But the situation is almost catastrophic. Surely in

those circumstances, either you are one of the other big hitters like

Jim Murphy and ought to be thinking if it is that bad, we ought to be

getting involved in this and trying to sort it out. You seem to be

damned if you do, damned if you don't. If you contribute to the

debate, this is evidence that this is what you should do is stand. If

you don't contribute, somehow you are not interested. There are ways

we can all contribute and whoever emerges as the leader of the

Scottish Labour Party, we have a job to do together. That is a nice

piece of argument, but people watching will say, clearly they are

worried about the future of the Scottish Labour Party. But the

problem is, and this is where the SNP Scott, Douglas Alexander is

very worried about this, but not worried about giving up his

personal... There is the difference between me and Alex Salmond. Alex

Salmond believes the only place for Scots to serve Scotland is Holyrood.

I am a devolutionist. We need Scots in both places. I don't buy the

argument that says the only talented Scots to show Labour

values happen to be sitting in Westminster. I make the point, we

need to do a much better job in opening our doors to make sure, I

think a broad swathe of Scotland have Labour values but don't carry

a Labour card, come to join our party. The problem with this, fine,

everyone knows what Labour's party is on the Union. You see it as good

potential. The crisis you have is not in the representation if Labour

gets in... The crisis is not solely one of do we have John F Kennedy

and Nelson Mandela sitting in the corner and we have not noticed them.

I except leadership matters, but ideas matter as well. I was trying

to say the story we tell about Scotland will have a material

effect on whether we can attract the calibre... You're not going to

enter the race? No, I am trying to start a conversation not a

leadership campaign. This story you have referred to several times. It

is not clear. Looking at most of your speech, apart from the stuff

about independence, most members I would imagine of the Scottish

National party, never mind people who vote for them, they say it is

fine, I agree with that? There is a difference, if you define your

politics by the establishment of a more equal Scotland in tough times.

Let's be honest, the context in which Scottish politics will take

place in the future is shaped by the constitution, but also the

seismic changes we are seeing around the world. The challenge of

delivering a Solidarity, a more socially just got one, which ensure

more SNP members claim to be a key purpose, will be difficult to head

when there is not much money around. My argument would be if we spend

our time as a nation proving are different rather than improving the

nation it takes politics in a different direction. John Swinney

said himself, the most important aim of the SNP in this Parliament

is to deliver above -- referendum. They are entitled to a point of

view, they secured a mandate at the Scottish Parliament election. I am

less interested in ending Britain, than ending poverty. If you start

from a different place, you end up in a different destination.

sure the SNP would point this out, you are saying Labour would reduce

inequality in difficult financial circumstances. Labour did not

manage to reduce inequality in Britain while ruling from 1999 in

one of the biggest booms. If you look at the figures in pensioner

poverty and Child poverty, there is evidence and indicators that show

had it not been for the action we had taken, it would have got worse.

It is right to say it after 2005, the forces drawing the economy a

park continued to undertake their work. That is not an argument for

me saying the task of unequal society should be given up on. We

should be saying let's be focused on what we are trying to achieve.

But we are diverted for years to come, the prospect of building the

better Scotland are diminished. am sure the SNP wouldn't agree with

that. So much so, you describe the SNP for the voter's attitude to the

SNP, people are confident and broadly aligned with their values?

It is an honest assessment why people voted SNP. We need to be

honest with each other about the scale of defeat Labour suffered and

understand the reasons the SNP appealed. My argument is our

failure to offer the more possibility of the vision to what

Scotland could be mean the SNP could use two excuses. They could

blame part of it on the Conservatives in Westminster and

the other one minority and we could not get much done. That combination

of excuses when the benefit of the doubt from a lot of voters across

the country. If we are able to raise our game, the Scottish

National Party would be tested. They have a heavy responsibility,

they have a majority in the Scottish Parliament, facing tough

times. They should be held to account. What I am suggesting, in a

way you have misunderstood the situation. You talk about the need

for a Labour story about Scotland within the Union. But the reason

this gobbing, as he described it, at the last Scottish election was

not the Scottish nationalists converted the people of Scotland to

nationalism, is because they stole from you the mantle of being the

Social Democratic Party in Scotland? They are working hard

both to steal that mantle and own the same optimism and possibility I

would argue in large part, came from the sustained economic growth

delivered by Labour between 1997 and 2007. I don't doubt it you get

an SNP politician on the show, they will claim they are as socially

Democratic as Labour. I would say as a Labour Party, we have had two

caught believes over the last 100 years. One is a commitment to home

rule. That is a commitment characterised by Solidarity and

social justice. My burning frustration at the election is

because I think that is what the Scottish people want. We need a

better expression of politics and social justice and the commitment

to Scotland's future. If the SNP Maj on to your social Democratic

ground, and won a thumping majority in an election, it is not

immediately obvious why people should think... Your speech does

not contain a single policy proposal or idea that is

fundamentally different from the There is something unsustainable

Botha coalition which stretches from Brian Souter of to Tommy

Sheridan. These are questions that that need to be answered.

There was no mention of Calman in your speech. Why do not come up

with some Labour proposal for home rule which is about more

interesting? We debt, which is why we delivered

the Scotland Act. -- we did. But the pragmatic response is to judge

things on a case-by-case basis. That is not a vision. That does not

make your case. We will have to leave it there. Newsnight has

learned that the clothing chain, Edinburgh Woollen Mill, is selling

garments made by North Koreans are working in Mongolia. The label's

claim that they were made in Scotland from authentic Kashmir.

Edinburgh. Tradition. The castle. Little craft shops where tourists

by quality products. White these cashmere sweaters. Then the

Edinburgh Woollen Mill. One of the largest clothing chains in the UK.

I have just picked up one of their popular sweaters for �70. Marked

down from �140. The label says: the James Pringle, designed in Scotland,

100% Kashmir. But it does not say here, or on the company's website,

where it was made. That is a little I have come to the other side of

the world to find out exactly where of the sweater as are made. It

turns out it is here, Mongolia, and industrials on on the outskirts of

the capital, Bill and the tour. They are very proud to be working

with Edinburgh Woollen Mill. They joined us five years ago and we

have been working together since to develop product, developed quality,

and to teach us how to be good export manufacturers.

Mongolian shepherds are some of the world's most prolific producers of

Kashmir. Slippers are no surprise that the will is sourced here. --

so it is no surprise. But what is unexpected is that many of the

workers here and Mongolia come from North Korea.

The North Korean workers fit in very well. They are hard workers.

They do not complain. There quite skilled. There looked after -

dormitory, showers, television, food. They fit in the very well.

They get food and board but there is a mystery about what happens to

their wages. We were told that the farmer paid the North Korean

government and not the workers directly. -- the company paid at

the North Korean government. This is quality control.

Can you show me something on its way to the UK?

You can see one here. A James Pringle sweater. Machine washable.

Exactly the same as the one repurchased in Edinburgh. Right

down to the label. Designed in Scotland? Made in Mongolia by North

Koreans. That is strange as North Korea is not exactly known for its

stylish net where. It is better known for making missiles and

testing nuclear weapons. It is the most regimented and repressive

regime in itself. 200,000 people are held in concentration camps for

incurring the wrath of the leader. And citizens are not allowed to

leave the country without permission. They can be executed if

they are caught fleeing. There is one exception - the Labour brigades.

In its 2009 I revealed on Newsnight that a British owned in use --

company was using North Korean labour to cut timber in Russia.

Their wages were paid directly to the North Korean government. They

are earning up to $7 million per year. That money goes straight to

the North Korean government. Are you concerned about how the

government uses that money? As far as our agreements are

concerned the money goes to the North Korean Ministry of Forestry.

How it is used is not our concern. While I was in Mongolia visiting

the factory making sweaters for Edinburgh Woollen Mill I came

across this construction site. There are about 50 North Korean

workers here. This is where they eat, sleep and work. The Mongolian

security guards are instructed not to let them beyond the fence.

Thousands of North Koreans have been brought here in the last few

years in a very profitable arrangement for private companies

exploiting all try cheap labour. But how much do the workers benefit

personally? A Mongolian are running a kiosk next door to the

construction site told me he initially thought that the North

Koreans were prisoners because they were never allowed off the site.

When I returned to the factory where the sweaters are made for

Edinburgh Woollen Mill the local company's director of exports told

me that has North Korean workers were treated better and allowed to

leave the factory. But as regards their wages he said they paid the

North Korean government and it was up to them how much of it made its

way to the workers. I understand that you pay the government then

the government pay the workers, Saw, North Korea is effectively

exporting its workforce to raise money for the regime. Is this

factory which makes Edinburgh Woollen Mill's sweaters are

effectively subsidising Kim Jong deal. I went back to ask if the

company were happy with this. They confirmed that the factory is can -

- supplying them with cashmere jumpers and admitted they were

being made by a workforce including North Koreans. But to my surprise,

Edinburgh Woollen Mill would not confirm what we were already told

about how the North Koreans were paid. They claimed that call on --

they claimed that: that is in stark contrast to what we were told on

the ground. They claim and that all the wages are paid into the

Walker's bank accounts. Difficult to square with what we were told.

They claim that the North Koreans are freely left the country to look

Again, that is difficult to reconcile with a nation that

executes people for attempting to flee. I wanted to talk to the North

Koreans at the factory but the embassy said, no. I wanted to ask

how much they made personally from the arrangement. Then factory

officials prevented us filming and escorted us outside. Edinburgh

Woollen Mill told us that labelling garments made in Mongolia as

designed in Scotland is factually correct. But although there is no

longer a legal requirement to label clothes with their country of

origin it is an offence to mislead customers about where a company is

made. The Trading Standards Institute told us that on the face

of it labelling a jumper as designed in Scotland but not saying

where it was made could be in A quick look at tomorrow's front

pages. The Times: more news on Liam Fox. The Daily Telegraph: a more