Browse content similar to 03/11/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Italy it will blow of the world financial system. Thank you. -- | 0:00:01 | 0:00:09 | |
blow up the world financial system. Tonight on Newsnight Scotland one | 0:00:09 | 0:00:12 | |
of the Scottish Government's key policies has come under attack for | 0:00:12 | 0:00:16 | |
the second time in as many days. After Citigroup raised concerns | 0:00:16 | 0:00:20 | |
about renewable energy yesterday, today it is the turn of engineers | 0:00:20 | 0:00:23 | |
to question whether Government targets can be met. | 0:00:23 | 0:00:29 | |
And in a week of mud-slinging and name-calling, we ask why Scottish | 0:00:29 | 0:00:33 | |
politics seems to have turned nastier than usual. | 0:00:33 | 0:00:37 | |
An oil industry consultant in Aberdeen has said that the North | 0:00:37 | 0:00:40 | |
Sea could still be worth hundreds of billions of pounds if the | 0:00:40 | 0:00:44 | |
Government gets its act together. That will presumably have cheered | 0:00:44 | 0:00:48 | |
up the Government in a week that has seen two other reports | 0:00:48 | 0:00:51 | |
undermining their strategy for renewable energy. Opposition | 0:00:51 | 0:00:56 | |
parties have been quick to stress the problems. | 0:00:56 | 0:01:00 | |
The SNP won the election on a promise of a target that by the | 0:01:00 | 0:01:04 | |
year 2020, Scotland would be producing enough renewable | 0:01:04 | 0:01:11 | |
electricity to match what it consumes. Today the Institution of | 0:01:11 | 0:01:14 | |
Mechanical Engineers has published its major concerns over the | 0:01:14 | 0:01:18 | |
renewables target. It says the reliance on wind-power would for | 0:01:18 | 0:01:21 | |
Scotland reimport energy from England and Northern Ireland went | 0:01:21 | 0:01:27 | |
the wind is not blowing. -- When the wind is not blowing. This would | 0:01:27 | 0:01:31 | |
cost millions of pounds, pushing up bills and forcing people into fuel | 0:01:31 | 0:01:35 | |
poverty. They also claimed the policy is not based on any | 0:01:35 | 0:01:38 | |
published strategy or engineering analysis of what is physically | 0:01:39 | 0:01:44 | |
needed to meet the 2020 target. The report is the second attack this | 0:01:44 | 0:01:50 | |
week on one of the SNP Government's flagship policies. Analysis from | 0:01:50 | 0:01:55 | |
city group warned companies to exercise extreme caution before | 0:01:55 | 0:01:58 | |
investing in renewables in Scotland well uncertainty remains over | 0:01:58 | 0:02:06 | |
independence. The consumer would have to pay enormous subsidies for | 0:02:06 | 0:02:10 | |
renewables which are spread across the rest of the UK at the moment. | 0:02:10 | 0:02:17 | |
City group says that a hike will amount to �800 per year. The SNP | 0:02:17 | 0:02:21 | |
have rejected both reports and Iain Gray has accused the Government of | 0:02:21 | 0:02:27 | |
misleading the country. It is clear that the uncertainty created by a | 0:02:27 | 0:02:33 | |
referendum will damage the economy of this country. Firstly, the | 0:02:33 | 0:02:40 | |
report ignores the reality. The reality is that investment is | 0:02:40 | 0:02:45 | |
happening now. In the context of a live independence debate. And the | 0:02:45 | 0:02:49 | |
second false assumption, that somehow after independence the rest | 0:02:49 | 0:02:53 | |
of the UK will no longer buy its Scottish energy is absolute | 0:02:53 | 0:02:59 | |
nonsense. The future may not be green but everyone is determined to | 0:02:59 | 0:03:02 | |
make political capital out of issues which might strictly | 0:03:02 | 0:03:09 | |
speaking appear to be technical. Earlier I spoke to Professor Stuart | 0:03:09 | 0:03:12 | |
Cameron, Vice President of the Institution of Mechanical Engineers. | 0:03:12 | 0:03:16 | |
And in Aberdeen, the Energy Minister Fergus Ewing. I began by | 0:03:16 | 0:03:19 | |
asking the professor why he thought the Government targets were not | 0:03:19 | 0:03:26 | |
plausible. Our concern is how to achieve it in that time frame. We | 0:03:26 | 0:03:33 | |
have been looking at it. You say that there has been extensive | 0:03:33 | 0:03:38 | |
building on wind farms and so on. They have been in locations where | 0:03:38 | 0:03:42 | |
there are relatively small turbines. They are now at the stage when | 0:03:42 | 0:03:46 | |
there are larger wind turbines, going offshore, going into | 0:03:46 | 0:03:50 | |
technology which is that the development stage just now, several | 0:03:50 | 0:03:55 | |
years before it can be implemented. To increase it fivefold, from the | 0:03:55 | 0:04:01 | |
current investment, is a very difficult target to achieve, both | 0:04:01 | 0:04:05 | |
in terms of the engineering requirements and in terms of | 0:04:05 | 0:04:09 | |
manufacture, infrastructure, and the National Grid. I think that is | 0:04:09 | 0:04:15 | |
recognised. We have looked at the route map that has been produced | 0:04:15 | 0:04:20 | |
for renewables. That is a top-level document. What we are saying is | 0:04:20 | 0:04:25 | |
that they need to go to the next level, it to say, look, let's do | 0:04:25 | 0:04:30 | |
some proper engineering, some rigour, to look at these actual | 0:04:30 | 0:04:36 | |
achievements. Then we can look at where we are going to. The gist of | 0:04:36 | 0:04:41 | |
that is that your targets are more hope than expectation. Our targets | 0:04:41 | 0:04:46 | |
are ambitious, yes, but we believe they are achievable. So do a great | 0:04:46 | 0:04:52 | |
number of experts, including engineers such as Professor Jim | 0:04:52 | 0:04:56 | |
McDonald, he chairs the Energy Advisory Board with the first | 0:04:56 | 0:05:06 | |
0:05:06 | 0:05:08 | ||
minister. And other practitioners as well. We can talk names, but a | 0:05:08 | 0:05:12 | |
lot of Stuart Cameron's members are companies and people that build | 0:05:12 | 0:05:17 | |
this stuff. You can talk names but the substance of the issue is that | 0:05:17 | 0:05:22 | |
they are saying that you have not produced any detailed engineering | 0:05:22 | 0:05:27 | |
plans to show how you are going to achieve these goals. May I say | 0:05:27 | 0:05:31 | |
where we stand at the moment, Gordon? Where we stand at the | 0:05:31 | 0:05:38 | |
moment is that one third of our capacity is renewables. If you | 0:05:38 | 0:05:42 | |
consider those renewable applications, constructed or | 0:05:42 | 0:05:46 | |
consented, that takes us to 60%. And if you consider those that are | 0:05:46 | 0:05:51 | |
planned, in the pipeline, that takes us up to 17 gigawatts, | 0:05:51 | 0:05:55 | |
roughly three times more energy than is consumed in Scotland. I | 0:05:55 | 0:05:59 | |
know we have got a long way to go and we work with and we want to | 0:05:59 | 0:06:04 | |
work with technical experts such as Professor Cameron. I would be very | 0:06:04 | 0:06:09 | |
happy if the Institute wish to meet with us to engage with them on this. | 0:06:09 | 0:06:17 | |
But we believe that we have a deliverable plan already. OK... | 0:06:17 | 0:06:24 | |
are intent on succeeding. What is wrong with that, in your view? | 0:06:24 | 0:06:27 | |
guarantee that we support that and our institution would be more than | 0:06:27 | 0:06:32 | |
happy to do so. Do you dispute the figures that he has just outlined? | 0:06:32 | 0:06:38 | |
That something like 80% is already in the bag? It is in the pipeline. | 0:06:38 | 0:06:42 | |
What has been achieved today has been relatively easy to achieve. | 0:06:43 | 0:06:48 | |
The latter part, in terms of going offshore with larger turbines, the | 0:06:48 | 0:06:53 | |
whole maintenance issues, to a certain extent it is unproven in a | 0:06:53 | 0:06:59 | |
harsh environment. Yes, we agree with the initial figures, where we | 0:06:59 | 0:07:04 | |
have got to today. I would call it the Low Hanging fruit. The wind | 0:07:04 | 0:07:12 | |
farms have been located in easier places. You are also making a | 0:07:12 | 0:07:17 | |
stronger point. Far from Scotland being self-sufficient in terms of | 0:07:17 | 0:07:23 | |
renewables, actually over the next 10 years or so it will become a net | 0:07:23 | 0:07:27 | |
importer of power of electricity from England. That is because you | 0:07:27 | 0:07:32 | |
need a base load. We all recognise and accept that there are days when | 0:07:32 | 0:07:37 | |
the winds do not blow. Therefore the availability for a wind farm is | 0:07:37 | 0:07:45 | |
somewhere between 0% and 100%. In reality it is probably about 25-30%. | 0:07:45 | 0:07:55 | |
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That is the experience of Germany and Denmark. Hang on. Being a net | 0:07:56 | 0:08:00 | |
importer is a long way from what you want to see. We are an exporter | 0:08:00 | 0:08:04 | |
and we will continue to export. Our target is not that we produce all | 0:08:04 | 0:08:08 | |
of the electricity in Scotland. All of electricity generated should be | 0:08:09 | 0:08:13 | |
generated from renewable sources. Our target is that the electricity | 0:08:13 | 0:08:18 | |
that we can sue in Scotland should be produced from renewable sources. | 0:08:19 | 0:08:25 | |
-- that we consume. We want to produce twice as much as that. | 0:08:25 | 0:08:30 | |
Professor Cameron is absolutely correct in saying that we will | 0:08:30 | 0:08:35 | |
continue to need conventional power sources. We are supportive of that. | 0:08:35 | 0:08:40 | |
I engage regularly, as they did today, with the gas network. I | 0:08:40 | 0:08:45 | |
spoke at a hydropower conference today. �100 million of investment | 0:08:45 | 0:08:50 | |
is being held up because of delays by Westminster. So there is a | 0:08:50 | 0:08:57 | |
balance. You cannot both be right. Yes, we are in net exporter | 0:08:57 | 0:09:05 | |
currently. But between now and 2020, one of the power stations will be | 0:09:05 | 0:09:13 | |
decommissioned. So we will be left with a gas-fired plant, hopefully, | 0:09:13 | 0:09:19 | |
or whatever, and the one at Peterhead. If you take them out of | 0:09:19 | 0:09:24 | |
the equation, what we are exporting right now is primarily the | 0:09:24 | 0:09:28 | |
electricity it from the Totnes power station. If we are only left | 0:09:28 | 0:09:32 | |
with that gas-fired plant and the one at Peterhead, and if you go | 0:09:32 | 0:09:37 | |
from zero to 100% for renewables, the converse of that is that when | 0:09:38 | 0:09:43 | |
you have no wind blowing and it is 0%, you need 100% base load from a | 0:09:43 | 0:09:53 | |
0:09:53 | 0:09:53 | ||
conventional plant, or nuclear. We achieve that just now. By 2020 | 0:09:53 | 0:09:56 | |
there needs to be another plant or a nuclear plant, either of which | 0:09:56 | 0:10:00 | |
would take five for seven years to come into fruition. Can I answer | 0:10:00 | 0:10:06 | |
that? Briefly because I want to move on. We accept that there must | 0:10:06 | 0:10:13 | |
be a base load. We reckon that looking to 2020, we would need four | 0:10:13 | 0:10:20 | |
gigawatts. I am on record as saying that the case for existing power | 0:10:20 | 0:10:24 | |
stations is strong and we will need it to keep the lights on. I have | 0:10:24 | 0:10:31 | |
also said that if the nuclear power stations, in particular the one you | 0:10:31 | 0:10:36 | |
are alluding to, which may have a life until 2030, providing the case | 0:10:36 | 0:10:40 | |
is made on economic grounds, we will not stand in the way. There | 0:10:40 | 0:10:50 | |
0:10:50 | 0:10:50 | ||
does need to be a variety because wind power Mr is intermittent. | 0:10:50 | 0:10:56 | |
have just said a word that we do not hear on this programme! | 0:10:56 | 0:11:00 | |
hear something new every day. As I do when I engage with people like | 0:11:00 | 0:11:04 | |
Professor Cameron. We are working with everyone in the industry in a | 0:11:04 | 0:11:09 | |
positive way to achieve our targets. As we believe, as many other | 0:11:09 | 0:11:13 | |
experts in the industry believe, they are ambitious but achievable. | 0:11:13 | 0:11:16 | |
I just want to move on briefly and get your response to the other | 0:11:16 | 0:11:24 | |
stuff that has happened this week. That is the report by city group. | 0:11:24 | 0:11:30 | |
In terms of price, the entire renewable energy in Britain depends | 0:11:30 | 0:11:33 | |
on the renewable obligation certificates effectively subsidised | 0:11:33 | 0:11:37 | |
by the consumer. If you have an independent Scotland it ceases to | 0:11:37 | 0:11:43 | |
be viable. The cost, spread across UK consumers, would be financed by | 0:11:43 | 0:11:50 | |
Scottish consumers and state aid. We believe that that is flawed, | 0:11:50 | 0:11:54 | |
because it fails to recognise the facts. The facts are that over the | 0:11:54 | 0:12:00 | |
last 12 months we have seen investment of �750 million in | 0:12:00 | 0:12:04 | |
renewable projects. And we have got... I understand that. There | 0:12:04 | 0:12:08 | |
point was that if Scotland became independent they would not be | 0:12:08 | 0:12:12 | |
guaranteed to be part of the national grid of Britain. There | 0:12:12 | 0:12:15 | |
point was that uncertainty is created by the fact that we are | 0:12:15 | 0:12:22 | |
proposing to have a referendum. If that was correct, then so is | 0:12:22 | 0:12:28 | |
everybody has known in Scotland about our plans for a referendum | 0:12:28 | 0:12:34 | |
for the last five years, why on earth would there have been �750 | 0:12:34 | 0:12:37 | |
million of investment in renewable energy in this country? They can't | 0:12:37 | 0:12:42 | |
have it both ways. It is not just the past investment. It is the | 0:12:42 | 0:12:46 | |
future investment. Up to �46 billion of investment in renewable | 0:12:46 | 0:12:51 | |
projects is in the pipeline, including 10 gigawatts of offshore | 0:12:51 | 0:12:56 | |
wind which is 1.5 times the energy consumed in Scotland. Scotland is a | 0:12:56 | 0:13:01 | |
great place to invest. Some people disagree but billions of pounds of | 0:13:01 | 0:13:07 | |
investors' agree. Briefly, is it a concern to you and your members at | 0:13:07 | 0:13:13 | |
the prospect of independence could cause uncertainty? We look purely | 0:13:13 | 0:13:18 | |
from one engineering focal point in terms of saying what engineering | 0:13:18 | 0:13:23 | |
capability is required. Whether there is an independent Scotland or | 0:13:23 | 0:13:30 | |
not, the same technical issues remain. Thank you very much. | 0:13:30 | 0:13:34 | |
This week we have had name-calling, misquotes, insults, public | 0:13:34 | 0:13:39 | |
ecologies and even a surreal cartoon of Alex Salmond as an | 0:13:39 | 0:13:46 | |
Arabian camel herd of. -- public apologies. Some of this would not | 0:13:47 | 0:13:54 | |
be out of place in the playground. What has been going on? | 0:13:54 | 0:14:04 | |
0:14:04 | 0:14:40 | ||
This is the ritual Dictionary from 1755. Febrile. From spirits | 0:14:40 | 0:14:47 | |
employee did in blood and turgid and affected by the fermentation. I | 0:14:47 | 0:14:54 | |
think he is getting over-excited. Before the members were workshy and | 0:14:54 | 0:14:57 | |
paid for nothing, the evidence points to the opposite. In recent | 0:14:57 | 0:15:03 | |
times they have not stopped and never been so busy not to say | 0:15:03 | 0:15:09 | |
febrile and revealing their worst side. Their behaviour has been | 0:15:09 | 0:15:14 | |
closer to the playground than parliamentary chamber. The economy | 0:15:14 | 0:15:19 | |
is in the red and the pension is disappearing, if not your job. AC | 0:15:19 | 0:15:23 | |
in army is a waiting in the Eurozone and something else. You | 0:15:23 | 0:15:30 | |
are heading for an independence referendum. What are the MPs and | 0:15:30 | 0:15:40 | |
MSPs up to? We had an apology for an insulting Liberal Democrat Cup | 0:15:40 | 0:15:48 | |
team. Apologies for a misleading view about an academic. Eight | 0:15:48 | 0:15:53 | |
Labour MP warned a woman that she would be in trouble and a | 0:15:53 | 0:15:57 | |
researcher apologised for going over the top in an e-mail claiming | 0:15:57 | 0:16:06 | |
misogyny. Who could forget the speech here? You will be attacked. | 0:16:06 | 0:16:10 | |
You will be spared. You will be like about and you will be | 0:16:10 | 0:16:19 | |
threatened. Sneer. To spread an oily, greasy or white substance | 0:16:19 | 0:16:28 | |
oboe something to sell it by all soil a reputation. But why is this | 0:16:28 | 0:16:35 | |
going on? Is it just displacement activity? Hartley 8 loss. | 0:16:35 | 0:16:38 | |
referendum campaign has kicked off and people are getting very nervous | 0:16:38 | 0:16:44 | |
about it. The opposition are not going for the tactic of jumping on | 0:16:44 | 0:16:48 | |
the second questioned. Independence is not going up in the polls the | 0:16:48 | 0:16:53 | |
way they would like and the opposition are getting nervous. The | 0:16:53 | 0:16:57 | |
referendum campaign has kicked off. People are on the doorstep and the | 0:16:57 | 0:17:02 | |
opposition party did not have leaders and understand what they | 0:17:02 | 0:17:07 | |
are saying. Plenty of tension at the moment. Is it just the heat is | 0:17:07 | 0:17:13 | |
being turned up and they do not know how to respond? There are high | 0:17:13 | 0:17:18 | |
stakes. Stick your head under the covers and it will all passed to | 0:17:18 | 0:17:23 | |
the next phase of the campaign. They will stop saying, he is not | 0:17:23 | 0:17:28 | |
being very nice and I do not like have. We will get to the substance | 0:17:28 | 0:17:35 | |
but we are in that fake area. People are up tight and nervous. | 0:17:35 | 0:17:42 | |
They have got this visceral hatred between Labour and the SNP. Now and | 0:17:42 | 0:17:47 | |
again with events, it does bubble to the surface and it is an ugly | 0:17:47 | 0:17:55 | |
stain in politics and it puts the public offer. -- off. The last | 0:17:55 | 0:18:04 | |
thing we need is for leaders to become upset, confused, bewildered, | 0:18:04 | 0:18:14 | |
0:18:14 | 0:18:14 | ||
I'm joined now by the political analyst, Gerry Hassan. Why is | 0:18:14 | 0:18:21 | |
everything nasty in your view? we take Labour and the SNP into | 0:18:21 | 0:18:26 | |
part of Scottish culture, we have had a bad history. Hatred ever | 0:18:26 | 0:18:35 | |
since 1967. People look at that and they say that it is ingrained. | 0:18:35 | 0:18:44 | |
There is a vociferous hatred. A even visceral hatred?! We have to | 0:18:44 | 0:18:48 | |
look at the wider context. We do not do this very well in like that. | 0:18:48 | 0:18:54 | |
We deal with people different from ourselves. Is it a narrow political | 0:18:54 | 0:19:00 | |
thing? We have got that you among Labour people that the nationalists | 0:19:00 | 0:19:05 | |
are not a political party in the ordinary sense. They want to break | 0:19:05 | 0:19:12 | |
up Britain. You do not deal with them like the Tories. In a way that | 0:19:12 | 0:19:17 | |
is a specific thing about Scottish politics and not a broader thing | 0:19:17 | 0:19:24 | |
about culture. I think it is about how we categorise and label people. | 0:19:24 | 0:19:28 | |
It goes across society and culture and football. But we have got | 0:19:28 | 0:19:35 | |
something specific in the relationship. My argument would be | 0:19:35 | 0:19:40 | |
whatever they do, the Labour hatred goes deeper from top to bottom. | 0:19:40 | 0:19:46 | |
They were the dominant party for years and they were threatened. | 0:19:46 | 0:19:52 | |
This seems illegitimate to them. The first rule of conflict is | 0:19:52 | 0:19:57 | |
understand and empathise the enemy. Do not apologise but they have not | 0:19:57 | 0:20:05 | |
got t first base. What would count as getting to first base? They are | 0:20:05 | 0:20:10 | |
not that different from Labour. The conventional argument is that they | 0:20:10 | 0:20:17 | |
are not that different. But it is much deeper. The Labour view of the | 0:20:18 | 0:20:22 | |
SNP and the wider cultural points are complicated. We have got hatred | 0:20:22 | 0:20:32 | |
0:20:32 | 0:20:33 | ||
on bedside, like Celtic and Labour -- Rangers. We have got a lot of | 0:20:33 | 0:20:39 | |
sinners and not many saints. Is it a lack of balance? We talk about | 0:20:39 | 0:20:44 | |
top-to-bottom hatred. We have got the support of people loving | 0:20:44 | 0:20:51 | |
conspiracy theories. But does the SNP leadership not have the same | 0:20:51 | 0:20:58 | |
attitude towards Labour has Labour do to them? I think that is right | 0:20:58 | 0:21:05 | |
on evidence. If we look at Ian Gray and Ian Davidson. The concept of | 0:21:05 | 0:21:13 | |
separation does not help anybody. Who is in favour? Many nationalists. | 0:21:13 | 0:21:18 | |
Alex Neil or Kenny MacAskill were the last politicians. They are | 0:21:18 | 0:21:23 | |
either brilliant actors or it is genuine. We have got hatred in part | 0:21:23 | 0:21:28 | |
of the movement. Look at institutions like the BBC and the | 0:21:28 | 0:21:37 | |
press. It is not very helpful. want to tell me the much broader | 0:21:37 | 0:21:42 | |
cultural issue and I will not deny you the opportunity. I think we | 0:21:42 | 0:21:46 | |
have got something deep about difference and having lots of | 0:21:46 | 0:21:52 | |
problems with that. We can see that in football, gender and sexuality | 0:21:52 | 0:22:00 | |
and lots of things where people stand out and have a problem. | 0:22:00 | 0:22:07 | |
do you mean people that stand out? To people operate differently? What | 0:22:07 | 0:22:12 | |
about that Japanese phrase about the male getting hammered down? I | 0:22:12 | 0:22:21 | |
did not think we have at here. -- the nail. The politics we are | 0:22:21 | 0:22:29 | |
talking about... We are questioning that. We genuinely tend to get | 0:22:29 | 0:22:34 | |
criticism. We are coming to terms with things like gender and | 0:22:34 | 0:22:40 | |
sexuality. Issues that other sides deal with it more easily. | 0:22:40 | 0:22:45 | |
Sectarianism as well. We have got a very fraught debate and we are not | 0:22:45 | 0:22:53 | |
getting to the issues. But Scotland is a civil society might England. | 0:22:53 | 0:23:00 | |
It is not. -- like England. We have got a much more drink orientated | 0:23:00 | 0:23:05 | |
culture. We have got to deal with these issues and we want to tell | 0:23:05 | 0:23:11 | |
each other comforting stories about ourselves. But with all that venom, | 0:23:11 | 0:23:17 | |
it disguises the fundamentals. will have to leave if there. We | 0:23:17 | 0:23:21 | |
will look at the front pages and will look at the front pages and | 0:23:21 | 0:23:26 | |
start with the Scotsman... This is about British funding for the | 0:23:27 | 0:23:32 | |
Eyemouth which could go to the you resent. -- the International | 0:23:32 | 0:23:42 | |
0:23:42 | 0:23:42 | ||
Monetary Fund. -- the Eurozone. Chaos in the Guardian. The | 0:23:42 | 0:23:51 |